People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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132 [01:42:22] <yans> y0!
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147 [01:50:09] <cybercrypto> !backports
148 [01:50:10] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
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180 [02:16:07] <ryouma> i rely on the frontend to debconf called "text". this frontend used to exist, and is still accepted with -p to dpkg-reconfigure. however, it is not provided as a default option when you do dpkg-reconfigure debconf. what is the deal?
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188 [02:23:43] <themill> ryouma: it was more likely "readline"
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193 [02:26:54] <ryouma> themill: i have tried both using dpkg-reconfigure -freadline (or -ftext, or some nonsense to see if it objects) on the grub-pc package. it objects to nonsense (i.e. that is not a frontend). readline fails in emacs shellit does not list the options. text is accepted, and fails much less bad. the only problem i know there is it doesn't show the existing drive. but text is not available as an option in dpkg-reconf
194 [02:26:54] <ryouma> igure debconf.
195 [02:28:45] <themill> I've never heard of "text" as a debconf frontend. debconf(7) says you should install libterm-readline-gnu-perl for "readline". If emacs is the problem, then don't do that.
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197 [02:29:54] <ryouma> i always use (and always have for many debian versions) emacs shell for installing, upgrading, dist-upgrading, and installing grub to a drive. i'd really like something that works instead of this seeming regression.
198 [02:30:25] <themill> text might well be a synonym for readline. It's not documented as such
199 [02:30:42] <ryouma> text works mostly, but readline does not
200 [02:31:02] <themill> they look identical here.
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202 [02:33:00] <themill> the bts is full of bugs about trying to interact with debconf through emacs
203 [02:33:08] <ryouma> huh
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206 [02:33:56] <ryouma> i wonder what the best solution is that allows you to work with emacs shell mode like before. i think you might be right about readline... but it did seem to fail before. but i will try it instead of text sothat if text disappears it will still sort of work.
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209 [02:36:01] <ryouma> i want to temporarily make the editor frontend work with an editor (or shell script) that i choose. is this possible?
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252 [03:17:02] <maqr> i'm having an issue with dropbear-initramfs where /etc/dropbear-initramfs/authorized_keys is an exact copy of ~/.ssh/authorized_keys (which works via ssh), but dropbear fails with a public key error... any idea how i could debug it? according to the docs, this should work
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259 [03:20:55] <maqr> i confirmed that authorized_keys is showing up in lsinitramfs, and there were no warnings about that file being invalid when i did update-initramfs (which i learned happens if you do have the wrong key format)
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269 [03:24:08] <maqr> oh, wait, maybe i've done something stupid... trying again
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361 [04:47:23] <dyy> hello
362 [04:47:24] <dyy> test
363 [04:48:49] <grisher> test
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368 [04:50:05] <dyy> what to do after installing debian mate edition?
369 [04:50:10] <dyy> just akin
370 [04:50:14] <dyy> askin
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375 [04:51:27] <grisher> what do you mean what to do
376 [04:52:04] <sponix> dyy: Google "first 10 things to do on Debian 10" ... There should be 3-5 list that pop up
377 [04:52:26] *** Joins: TW1920 (~quassel@replaced-ip )
378 [04:52:34] <sponix> dyy: most people use the OS... Ya know, to run apps, and do things
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380 [04:53:12] <dyy> I am switching from windows to linux
381 [04:53:39] <dyy> the setup was a bit confusing but now I got linux running on my lapie
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383 [04:53:50] <sponix> dyy: congrats
384 [04:54:26] <dyy> thanks
385 [04:54:35] <dyy> parrot os is my choice
386 [04:54:41] <sponix> when you break it, and want a lil easier setup/install/config ... Might try MX Linux next go around. Streamlines a lot for me
387 [04:55:12] <sponix> dyy: So, you are attempting to h4x0r the planet ?
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389 [04:55:45] <dyy> sponix: aahahah
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417 [05:21:38] <maqr> dropbear-initramfs is awesome, now i can unlock my machine remotely :D
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465 [06:23:23] <grisher> ps s
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513 [07:24:02] <NetGirl> any opinions or thoughts on unattendedugrades?
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515 [07:26:44] <nkuttler> NetGirl: bad
516 [07:26:55] <NetGirl> nkuttler: how/why?
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523 [07:32:55] <vvor> NetGirl: BAD. as it's unattended...
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525 [07:33:44] <NetGirl> well.. sometimes you're at vacation and you just wanna relax for a month without attending anything
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527 [07:34:05] <vvor> NetGirl: Unless you have a fail safe system. Let it be.
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529 [07:34:28] <NetGirl> and boom, a 0 day exploit enters the arena
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531 [07:34:59] <NetGirl> it's peoples mail
532 [07:35:11] <NetGirl> backup essential I guess.
533 [07:36:10] <NetGirl> how do you even upgrade something that's running such as a web server if you're on a VPS?
534 [07:36:22] <NetGirl> if people are using the service
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538 [07:38:52] <jelly> NetGirl: schedule downtime, instead of hoping the distro unattended process gets it 100% right
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540 [07:39:46] <jelly> it's a newis feature, and sometimes it doesn't
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542 [07:39:58] <jelly> newish
543 [07:40:22] <Logan2000> Does anyone use tvheadend?
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546 [07:42:34] <RoyK> NetGirl: I've used unatteded upgrades for years - it works
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548 [07:43:40] <RoyK> vvor: seriously - how often do things break doring an apt upgrade?
549 [07:44:51] <RoyK> NetGirl: unless you're babysitting your machine 24x7, unattended-upgrades is a good idea
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551 [07:46:00] <RoyK> jelly: unattended-upgrades don't reboot your machine by default
552 [07:47:32] <jelly> RoyK: I didn't say anything about reboot being the only or even the major failure mode
553 [07:47:33] <NetGirl> I've got basically no experience so this is really hard for me to make a call on :D
554 [07:48:03] <NetGirl> I'll update manually until I get bored enough to automate it and then experience the difference I guess
555 [07:48:19] <annadane> i think for me my own personal approach if i went on vacation or something is just to shut off the pc and apply the updates when i get back; when i use my computer daily, i run the apt operations myself
556 [07:48:35] <annadane> unattended upgrades is great for servers
557 [07:48:59] <NetGirl> this is intended for servers
558 [07:49:13] <RoyK> NetGirl: I use it on all my servers
559 [07:49:24] <NetGirl> does it restart the services as well?
560 [07:49:25] <RoyK> NetGirl: it's reasonably safe
561 [07:49:28] <RoyK> yes
562 [07:49:32] <jelly> I use it on none of my servers, and can't trust it.
563 [07:49:43] <jelly> YMMV :-)
564 [07:49:49] <vvor> NetGirl: It is a very easy call. If it breaks I deal with it in this way... And this outcome is OK with me/my boss.
565 [07:49:52] <RoyK> jelly: it works, bro ;)
566 [07:50:10] <NetGirl> well, imagine a 0 day hitting the scene while you're getting ready for bed.. could take a day before you check your server.
567 [07:50:16] <RoyK> vvor: it hasn't broken any of my stuff in five years
568 [07:50:30] <RoyK> vvor: and I manage quite a few machines
569 [07:50:33] <jelly> RoyK: I've seen how it works in the distro that invented it. Maybe it got better.
570 [07:50:51] <NetGirl> jelly: have you had problems with it?
571 [07:51:04] <RoyK> 1982 perhaps
572 [07:51:09] <kadiro> some keys sudently stop orking ho to fix tht
573 [07:51:38] <NetGirl> I suppose it'd be annoying if it upgraded and restarted for minor non-important updates
574 [07:52:06] <RoyK> NetGirl: it won't restart unless it has to and if you expicitly configure it to do so
575 [07:52:13] <jelly> it restarts affected services by necessity
576 [07:52:17] <RoyK> the server, that is
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578 [07:52:26] <kadiro> it hppen mny times by the y
579 [07:52:53] <NetGirl> does it only update if it's critical?
580 [07:53:05] <RoyK> NetGirl: that's configurable
581 [07:53:08] <jelly> server restart is 10-30s downtime when you have a VM, that's less problematic
582 [07:53:13] <RoyK> NetGirl: just install it and check the config
583 [07:53:24] <RoyK> NetGirl: then uninstall it if you don't like it
584 [07:53:49] <kadiro> test
585 [07:54:11] <RoyK> NetGirl: generally, you can choose between security updates, updates or dist-upgrade, and if you want it to reboot on demand, and if so, when and so forth
586 [07:54:19] <kadiro> aqwzsxedc it seems it magically orking agin
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589 [07:56:21] <kadiro> I think this is the cause: service name='org.freedesktop.PackageKit' unit='packagekit.service' requested by ':1.185' (uid=0 pid=19584 comm="/usr/bin/gdbus call --system --dest org.freedeskto")
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594 [07:58:17] <kadiro> maybe not
595 [08:00:23] <kadiro> journalctl doesn't show usefull info about what is it
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597 [08:01:01] <kadiro> I will conclude it is just a hardware problem
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600 [08:04:02] <kadiro> I was right, the cable have some cutting wires or they are going to be cutted soon
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619 [08:17:44] <melpy> nice keyboard 'w'
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721 [09:41:20] <laughingtiger> debian 10 is so stable that I begin to feel bored.
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727 [09:43:35] <ratrace> laughingtiger: you can always bump to sid
728 [09:43:56] <grisher> i use sid and never have issues tho
729 [09:44:25] <laughingtiger> ratrace, well, sometime in the future I'll try. thank you for the advice.
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737 [09:48:50] <annadane> lol
738 [09:48:58] <annadane> debian complaint: "works too well"
739 [09:49:42] <Kharec> users are never happy, they're humans.
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743 [09:51:30] <ratrace> !next
744 [09:51:30] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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752 [09:57:57] <Sepultura> hallo
753 [09:58:03] <Sepultura> anyone knows a good bulk renamer where I can change a character in subdirectories in a directory?
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767 [10:12:33] <Kyros> bash
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772 [10:16:21] <Wulf> rename?
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776 [10:20:51] <parity> aww :c
777 [10:21:18] <ratrace> Sepultura: give an example?
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787 [10:27:49] <Tuor> ratrace: The problem I had with OpenSSH, it was a virtual network adapter problem (probably). I changed the networkadapter and couldn't reproduce the problem. So it seems it's only that simple...
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790 [10:28:28] <ratrace> Tuor: but putty worked fine
791 [10:30:35] <Tuor> yes and no. Putty could not kill the VM, but later we installed nginx on the VM and used it. As soon as we did load a page with a lot of content (via the nginx) the VM freezed again. We did a lot of testing/debugging and just 15 min ago, I tested to change the network adapter and I can't reproduce the problem (not with Windows 10 OpenSSH and not with web pages with a lot of content).
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795 [10:32:45] <gremel_lemerg> May I get some help with mounting a CD drive? Updated to 10.1 and the cdrom is no longer mounted. It is being detected as it shows a device in dmesg, however it states *-cdrom UNCLAIMED when lshw is run.
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797 [10:33:17] <gremel_lemerg> It seems like it is not creating a point in /dev ?
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801 [10:36:23] <NetGirl> older npm version in debian doesn't support the latest version of nodejs in debians repo.. is it known? Do I have to compile it myself?
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803 [10:37:15] <gremel_lemerg> If it's of any help, wodim shows the following: 0 dev='/dev/sg1' rwrw-- : 'PLDS' 'DVD+-RW DU-8A5LH'
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873 [11:31:47] <dka> Hi
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875 [11:31:54] <dka> I just noticed that the lockscreen on debian is not secure
876 [11:32:20] <dka> is it cinnamon or debian?
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882 [11:36:22] <Habbie> dka, in what way is it not secure?
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884 [11:36:44] <annadane> the lock screen is very probably cinnamon specific but i don't know what it uses
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886 [11:38:40] <annadane> but yeah please clarify not secure
887 [11:38:42] <annadane> that's really vague
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889 [11:39:01] <dka> Habbie, if you use another display, then the resolution of the lock screen can change and you can access the desktop and the lock screen at the same time
890 [11:39:10] <Habbie> dka, oh that's a fun bug
891 [11:39:13] <dka> I just did it, I was able to surf on chrome
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893 [11:39:50] <dka> I have 3 screen, the laptop screen which is default res 4k UHD, I use it in 1980x1080, it was close, lock screen on, I opened the laptop, and was in
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896 [11:40:44] <dka> that's not really fun it gives full access to the user's desktop, it's kind of lame
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899 [11:42:22] <annadane> dka, file a bug
900 [11:42:26] <dka> no
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902 [11:42:37] <dka> I will use it on my boss's
903 [11:42:52] <dka> add extra $$ on my paycheck
904 [11:42:55] <dka> then I'll fill a bug
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909 [11:45:56] * annadane wonders whether this will become a 'won't fix; debian stable doesn't get those fixes; fixed in sid'
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957 [12:20:19] <boktan> i did installed snapd and any snap app i run i get this error : libGL error: No matching fbConfigs or visuals foundlibGL error: failed to load driver: swrast how to fix it?
958 [12:20:52] <dob1> hi, capturing tcp traffic on an host with tcpdump tcpdump host ip proto tcp -> no, tcpdump tcp host ip -> no, tcpdump host ip and proto tcp -> no, how is the right syntax
959 [12:20:53] <dob1> ?
960 [12:21:49] <jpw> dobl: host <ip> and not tcp
961 [12:21:58] <dob1> I want tcp
962 [12:22:03] <jpw> dobl: host <ip> and tcp
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964 [12:22:18] <dob1> damn! thanks
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1017 [12:53:29] <peanatsu> hi, I want to install an older java version (openjdk-8) on debian Buster. how would I go about doing that?
1018 [12:53:57] <peanatsu> (Buster only has openjdk-11 in the packages)
1019 [12:54:14] <eightyone> Good morning
1020 [12:54:41] <Wulf> peanatsu: fetch the old source package and compile it yourself. Didn't try, maybe works, maybe doesn't.
1021 [12:54:50] <kadiro> buster ==> openjdk-8-jre - OpenJDK Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
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1023 [12:55:31] <Habbie> ,v openjdk-8-jre
1024 [12:55:33] <judd> Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch: 8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u232-b09-1
1025 [12:55:42] <Habbie> kadiro, are you sure?
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1027 [12:55:54] <Habbie> i only see nvidia-openjdk-8-jre/stable which seems a bit special
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1029 [12:56:14] <kadiro> Habbie, yeah that what i get with apt-cache search
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1031 [12:56:29] <Habbie> kadiro, that is weird
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1033 [12:56:45] <Habbie> kadiro, can you pastebin the output of 'apt-cache policy openjdk-8-jre'?
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1035 [12:56:59] <kadiro> Habbie, maybe because I upgraded from stretch to buster
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1040 [12:57:07] <Habbie> kadiro, even then it should not be visible any more
1041 [12:57:10] <Habbie> but, i have to go
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1044 [12:57:43] <kadiro> replaced-url
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1048 [12:58:54] <jpw> stretch and sid only... that doesn't seem right
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1052 [13:00:52] <kadiro> I think I have a mixing repos :D
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1054 [13:01:37] <jpw> the mythical Debian/Fowardports
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1056 [13:01:52] <kadiro> ,v openjdk-8-jre
1057 [13:01:53] <judd> Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch: 8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u232-b09-1
1058 [13:02:16] <kadiro> hmm same result as Habbie
1059 [13:02:29] <peanatsu> well, actually I think I will just go with adopt openjdk as recommended in #java, but thanks for the effort guys
1060 [13:02:33] <Habbie> kadiro, of course ;)
1061 [13:02:53] <Habbie> replaced-url
1062 [13:02:54] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1115 [13:57:00] <TandyUK> replaced-url
1116 [13:57:09] <TandyUK> anyone got any clues on wtf mught be goign on here?
1117 [13:57:37] <TandyUK> can wget a file from security.debian.org, but debmirror fails with "network is unreachable"
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1119 [13:58:42] <jpw> do you have the env `http_proxy` set?
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1121 [13:59:14] <TandyUK> theres no proxy no
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1123 [13:59:56] <TandyUK> no proxy related env vars exist either
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1125 [14:00:51] <TandyUK> no selinux/apparmour either, and ipv6 is disabled on the host
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1127 [14:01:05] <TandyUK> been through everything i can think of, never seen anything like this lol
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1130 [14:02:37] <TandyUK> fwiw, this is being invoked from cobbler, but same happens when runnign the command directly
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1132 [14:02:49] <TandyUK> just adding a deb10 mirror to see if it does the same thing
1133 [14:02:56] <Dagger> well maybe you should enable v6 then. perhaps that will be able to reach it
1134 [14:03:23] <TandyUK> the wan its using has no ipv6 anyway, so that wouldnt help
1135 [14:03:35] <TandyUK> and i can wget/httping using v4 without issues
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1140 [14:05:06] <Dagger> there are no SRV records for archive.debian.org so it has nothing to do with that...
1141 [14:05:16] <Akuw> i need to convert 5DC0BB7B0000035A to decimal and date time
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1145 [14:05:57] <jpw> TandyUK: valid point though try disabling ipv6 and try again
1146 [14:06:08] <TandyUK> ipv6 is already disabled
1147 [14:06:21] <Dagger> ...people really can't help themselves, can they?
1148 [14:06:25] <TandyUK> the host used to have v6 locally, disabled that yesterday
1149 [14:06:27] <Dagger> stop recommending that we disable v6 left and right :/
1150 [14:06:31] <Wulf> Akuw: okay, what's keeping you from doing it?
1151 [14:07:02] <Akuw> is a saved value and i need to convert to date and time
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1153 [14:07:15] <Dagger> maybe debmirror does the download as an unprivileged user, and you've got something that blocks internet access in that case?
1154 [14:07:22] <Wulf> >>> str(datetime.fromtimestamp(0x5DC0BB7B0000035A / 2**32))
1155 [14:07:22] <Wulf> '2019-11-05 00:59:55'
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1161 [14:08:17] <cybrNaut> i'm trying to "aptitude upgrade". The new kernel forces an update of initramfs-tools, which falls over because it assumes I have an encrypted swap => W: initramfs-tools configuration sets RESUME=/dev/mapper/sda5_crypt
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1163 [14:08:56] <cybrNaut> how can i force the initramfs-tools installer to use /dev/sda5?
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1167 [14:12:00] <cybrNaut> i tried putting "RESUME=/dev/sda5" in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs-tools.conf -- makes no difference
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1169 [14:12:26] <Akuw> Wulf: from console?
1170 [14:12:47] <Akuw> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `datetime.fromtimestamp'
1171 [14:12:59] <jelly> cybrNaut: a) edit /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume b) the warning is not fatal, initramfs gets built anyway
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1173 [14:13:04] <Akuw> str(datetime.fromtimestamp(0 x 5DC0BB7B0000035A / 2**32)
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1177 [14:14:11] <cybrNaut> jelly: thanks!
1178 [14:14:11] <jelly> Akuw: why are you sourcing what looks like python code, in bash?!
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1182 [14:15:42] <Akuw> bash
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1184 [14:17:11] <jelly> Akuw: Wulf pasted some python code, not shell
1185 [14:19:45] <cybrNaut> jelly: now I get "cryptsetup: WARNING: failed to detect canonical device of /dev/sda5", so it seems to still be assuming swap is encrypted. You say it's non-fatal, but b/c "aptitude upgrade" fails the initramfs-tools package never gets upgraded. Is that going to cause problems if I reboot with this new kernel?
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1200 [14:29:45] <muhaha> Guys, I need help with MDADM. If I create RAID5 with three disks ( WD Red 3TB ), make FS, copy data from fourth disk ( also WD Red 3TB ), then I delete fourth disk and use it as fourth disk in RAID5, will it blend? Or is there any other method how to not delete data from disk, but make a RAID5 ? Obviously I have not spare disk to transfer my data.
1201 [14:29:46] <muhaha> Thanks
1202 [14:29:49] <Wulf> Akuw: d=5DC0BB7B0000035A; date -d $(printf "@%d.%03d" $((0x${d:0:8})) $((0x${d:8:8})))
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1208 [14:40:22] <jim> muhaha, you should have some non raid storage for backups
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1212 [14:42:20] <TandyUK> regardless of the storage type (raid is not a backup), you cant call it a backup if its on the same system
1213 [14:42:43] <TandyUK> this PSU failures which kill ALL disks for example (rare, but not impossible)
1214 [14:42:46] <TandyUK> think*
1215 [14:43:33] <TandyUK> 3,2,1 rule for backups: 3 copies of data, 2 different storage mediums, 1 of which is off-site
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1217 [14:43:41] <jelly> muhaha: that's fine. If you know in advance you're going to have 4 members, you can also create a degraded raid5 with 4th member as "missing"
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1219 [14:44:01] <jelly> muhaha: #linux-raid channel is great for mdadm questions.
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1223 [14:44:43] * tMH is gone. nsf
1224 [14:44:49] <jelly> jim: backup solution is always independent of online raid setup. It could be raid as well.
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1226 [14:45:53] <TandyUK> in windows world, ive come across clients doing backups of eg "C:\user\...\documents" to "C:\Backup" and thinking they were safe lol
1227 [14:46:28] <greycat> That's fine if the backup is only supposed to protect the files from being corrupted by software.
1228 [14:46:37] <greycat> Or by accidental user deletion, etc.
1229 [14:46:52] <TandyUK> by definition, thats "a copy of the files", and not a "backup"
1230 [14:47:09] <TandyUK> backup should protect you against catastrophic system failure
1231 [14:47:23] <airstorm> hey, quick question, where does debian keep its source code for the linux kernel (with all distro-specific patches applied)? I'm looking for buster 4.19
1232 [14:47:43] <greycat> replaced-url
1233 [14:48:13] <airstorm> ty
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1241 [14:51:37] <tarzeau> is anyone using oomd in here? i keep getting "/sys/fs/cgroup is not a valid cgroup2 filesystem"
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1243 [14:52:44] <Akuw> Wulf: that is UTC or local time
1244 [14:52:47] <Akuw> ?
1245 [14:53:00] <gnomelight> hello, does anyone know how to disable gnome composite effects? i am looking for speeds comparable to gnome-flashback
1246 [14:53:27] <Wulf> Akuw: local
1247 [14:53:34] <gnomelight> right now i have animations disabled
1248 [14:53:36] <Akuw> ok thanks
1249 [14:53:43] <Wulf> Akuw: date -u prints utc
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1251 [14:54:10] <k_sze> Does anybody know which page of the Debian wiki this could be talking about?
1252 [14:54:11] <k_sze> replaced-url
1253 [14:54:23] <Wulf> Akuw: or use date -R. well, "man date"
1254 [14:54:57] <Akuw> i have to make an script to convert the 4th column of a big file now
1255 [14:55:21] <cybrNaut> am i fucked, if I reboot after a kernel update if the initramfs-tools package cannot be updated at the same time?
1256 [14:55:36] <Wulf> Akuw: awk and cut can extract columns.
1257 [14:55:39] <cybrNaut> is it okay for initramfs-tools to stay behind?
1258 [14:55:44] <Wulf> Akuw: Or you use a proper programming language like python.
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1262 [14:57:24] <gnomelight> k_sze, it appears to be this page replaced-url
1263 [14:57:37] <Akuw> i will use awk
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1271 [14:59:17] * tMH is gone. nsf
1272 [14:59:27] <gnomelight> k_sze, this also appears to have bits related to the info referenced in that post replaced-url
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1274 [14:59:48] <k_sze> right
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1278 [15:00:57] <gnomelight> replaced-url
1279 [15:01:35] <gnomelight> these three should cover all the bits that post is talking about
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1285 [15:09:11] <Akuw> how can i convert same with awk?
1286 [15:09:15] <Akuw> Wulf
1287 [15:10:47] <Akuw> awk: line 2: function strtonum never defined
1288 [15:10:50] <Akuw> why?
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1296 [15:15:38] <Wulf> Akuw: I don't use awk a lot.
1297 [15:15:48] <Akuw> ok
1298 [15:15:50] <Wulf> it's awkward. Python is better ;-)
1299 [15:15:55] <Akuw> let me ask in #awk
1300 [15:16:07] <Akuw> yes, i will start working with python
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1462 [17:23:40] <dfive> Hello. Why does Debian go down?
1463 [17:23:46] <overbythere> o.o
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1465 [17:23:56] <dfive> I was copying to it via ssh :)
1466 [17:24:59] <dfive> Maybe because I installed gnome?
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1477 [17:29:31] <zodd> dfive, define ¨down¨ ?
1478 [17:29:59] <zodd> running out of resources? (ram, cpu, disk)
1479 [17:30:24] <dfive> it hibernates
1480 [17:30:35] <dfive> imho - goes to sleep
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1482 [17:30:43] <greycat> ran out of battery?
1483 [17:31:43] <zleap> oops
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1490 [17:33:10] <dfive> just wanted to share this
1491 [17:33:20] <dfive> cya
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1493 [17:33:21] <dfive> :)
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1496 [17:34:07] <zodd> is there a #debian-therapy ?
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1500 [17:35:05] <pizzaiolo> zodd no but there's always #trivialand to distract you from life
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1502 [17:35:22] <zodd> cool
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1598 [18:40:52] <ctcx> In a command-line-only Debian, is there a way to get current Monitor's hardware resolution in pixels, without X11 tools?
1599 [18:41:13] <ctcx> xdpyinfo needs Xorg installed...
1600 [18:42:35] <jelly> ctcx: in general no, but you can try fbset
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1608 [18:44:36] <greycat> maybe something in the edid-decode package?
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1613 [18:46:24] <Kats99> i added a ufw rule to deny port 22 yet if i run nmap i get port 22 as open for ssh
1614 [18:46:35] <Kats99> how do i close port 22
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1616 [18:46:54] <greycat> The easiest way? systemctl stop ssh
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1618 [18:47:05] <greycat> What is your actual goal?
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1620 [18:47:24] <ctcx> jelly: thanks very much sir
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1622 [18:47:38] <Kats99> i ran nmap and it said 998 ports closed. 902 and 22 were open. i wanna close them
1623 [18:47:58] <jelly> ctcx: what greycat said about edid-decode was also for you to try
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1625 [18:48:06] <greycat> Why did you run nmap, FROM WHAT COMPUTER did you run it, what ARGUMENTS did you give it, what are you trying to DO?
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1627 [18:48:37] <Kats99> umm..i ran nmap on my computer like this: nmap 192.168.43.1
1628 [18:48:39] <greycat> If you applied firewall rules to (say) eth0, but you're running nmap against localhost, then it bypasses the firewall.
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1631 [18:49:12] <ctcx> Yes, sorry
1632 [18:49:17] <greycat> So 192.168.43.1 is your Debian computer's LAN address, and you ran that command from a SECOND computer on the same LAN?
1633 [18:49:18] <Kats99> it bypasses the firewall??? what kinda rule is that!! how will i know which ports are open or closed then??
1634 [18:49:21] <ctcx> Thanks very much as well, greycat
1635 [18:49:32] <Kats99> no there is no second computer
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1637 [18:49:35] <jelly> Kats99: you test from a different system.
1638 [18:49:36] <greycat> ...
1639 [18:49:57] <Kats99> oh so it wont work from the same system
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1641 [18:50:14] <greycat> What are you trying to do? Why not just STOP the ssh daemon if you don't want it?
1642 [18:50:24] <greycat> Or hell, REMOVE it from the computer entirely?
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1645 [18:50:56] <Kats99> i want it because i use it on my phone but it would be good to close it if im not using it
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1649 [18:51:19] <greycat> systemctl stop ssh; then later, to make it run again, systemctl start ssh
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1652 [18:51:56] <jelly> Kats99: your phone is probably also a computer that can test tcp connections as well.
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1655 [18:52:32] <Kats99> yes i stop ssh when im not using but the port's open so i wondered if i didnt do something more to close it. now i know
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1658 [18:52:45] <Kats99> yes it's got termux in it
1659 [18:52:57] <jelly> the port will not look "open" if the service is stopped
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1661 [18:53:37] <greycat> P.S. "open" and "closed" are bullshit terms entirely invented by nmap and have no intrinsic meaning
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1663 [18:54:05] <Kats99> oh look the port got "closed"
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1665 [18:54:35] <Kats99> i stopped ssh like 10 times and it works now
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1671 [18:55:27] <Kats99> greycat: Hey Mr. Ohio...why not drink a cup of coffee
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1675 [18:56:25] <Kats99> im losing my mind working on bash for the past 24 hours...gotta say greycat your book is really good
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1692 [19:07:19] <mason> greycat: Eh? Open and closed can be useful. Open, closed, unresponsive.
1693 [19:08:16] <greycat> A given IP/port may have a process listening (bound) to it, or not. If it doesn't, then anything sent to that port will get "connection refused", unless a kernel-level firewall intercepts the packets and drops them, or intercepts the responses.
1694 [19:09:12] <greycat> If a process is listening, then an incoming TCP connection will succeed, at least at first -- again, unless a kernel-level firewall interferes. If the process crashes right after the connection, or intentionally exits because of TCP wrappers, then you'll see "connection closed by foreign host" or similar.
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1755 [19:48:00] <iank> why do i have a bunch of virtual network interfaces in debian 10, and what are they for? ls /sys/devices/virtual/net
1756 [19:48:01] <iank> bcp0 bcp1 bcp2 bcp3 bcsf0 bcsf1 bcsf2 bcsf3 bcsh0 bcsh1 bcsh2 bcsh3 bpq0 bpq1 bpq2 bpq3 bpq4 eql erspan0 gre0 gretap0 hwsim0 ifb0 ifb1 ip6gre0 ip6tnl0 ip6_vti0 ipddp0 ip_vti0 lo nr0 nr1 nr2 nr3 rose0 rose1 rose2 rose3 rose4 rose5 rose6 rose7 rose8 rose9 sit0 teql0 tunl0 yam0 yam1 yam2 yam3
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1792 [20:14:15] <Ankman> iank: wow. no idea. how could this happen? i get only lo and ppp0 there, as aspected
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1794 [20:16:16] <iank> Ankman. ya, i have no idea. they aren't mentioned in dmesg or systemd journal. this is just a vm i created using debootstrap with 2 interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces
1795 [20:16:43] <RoyK> ip link list
1796 [20:17:00] <iank> ya, they are all there listed
1797 [20:17:19] <iank> eg: 54: bpq0: <> mtu 256 qdisc noop state DOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
1798 [20:17:20] <iank> link/ax25 98:92:9c:aa:b0:40:02 brd a2:a6:a8:40:40:40:00
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1806 [20:22:35] <RoyK> iank: edit /etc/network/interfaces and add it
1807 [20:23:08] <iank> RoyK why? I just want to know why it exists and what its for
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1809 [20:23:40] <iank> similar virtual interfaces exist on a physical machine i setup
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1812 [20:27:08] <karlpinc> iank: You might grep the debian kernel changelog.
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1838 [20:44:57] <iank> karlpinc, thanks! i figured it out. i accidentally loaded a bunch of extra kernel modules, some of which create virtual interfaces
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1890 [21:13:23] <karlpinc> iank: Ah. Makes sense.
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1899 [21:21:01] <alencar> Hello, guys. How are you? Let me ask you something about firewall (kind of n00b question). When a team setup a datacenter, many servers work together, and each one of them run a specific service. A DNS-srv assossiates IPs and hostnames, mail-srv sends/receives messages etc (using beoadcast for few services, right?). About firewall server: do I need to set it with the gateway? Or can I install it in
1900 [21:21:02] <alencar> any place inside datacenter, and then set a route to it? Or, using DNS, set a register to this firewall server? How can I make this firewall work with the network, blocking/allowing access to outside/inside? Ist it possible to make IPTABLES work with some kind of broadcast?
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1902 [21:22:27] <greycat> If you only want your servers to use the DNS resolver, simply have it listen on a LAN interface (192.168.x or 10.y or ...) instead of listening on the public interface.
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1904 [21:22:52] <greycat> Most DNS resolvers can also be configured to accept recursive queries only from a specific set of IP addresses, if you don't have multiple interfaces.
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1906 [21:23:59] <Ankman> alencar: yes, set the default policy to REJECT and insert a policy to allow the local network to communicate with each other
1907 [21:24:25] <Ankman> if you trust your local network...
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1909 [21:25:20] <alencar> So, basicaly, I'm going to use DNS to point to this firewall server (and set the right rule in IPTABLES), right? If this is the solution, so I got it. Thanks.
1910 [21:25:28] <RoyK> ufw allow 53/udp from x.x.x.x/yy
1911 [21:25:34] <RoyK> I'd use ufw
1912 [21:25:49] <RoyK> it's an iptables wrapper that makes things a wee bit easier
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1915 [21:26:02] <greycat> Why do I get the feeling they didn't understand anything I said...
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1917 [21:26:07] <RoyK> ufw allow 53/udp from x.x.x.x/yy comment "Allow DNS queries from x.x.x.x/yy"
1918 [21:26:07] <Ankman> hmm, may be that was a bad advice. dunnow if after using the global REJECT policy allows other rules
1919 [21:26:16] <jasonwc> Has anyone used the new Ice Lake mobile CPUs with Debian? I'm looking at a laptop with a i5-1035G4 CPU (4c/8th with Iris Plus graphics) released in Q319. I'm certain that the iGPU won't work with 4.19 (even a 9700K won't with the iGPU) but I'm not sure if it'll work with 5.2 from backports either
1920 [21:26:44] <alencar> RoyK: Would UFW be a kind of interface to IPTABLES?
1921 [21:27:00] <RoyK> Ankman: ufw normally rejects everything except whatever rules you add, and established connections
1922 [21:27:03] <greycat> !ufw
1923 [21:27:03] <dpkg> Uncomplicated firewall (ufw) is an <iptables> front-end with syntax similar to OpenBSD's Packet Filter (PF). replaced-url
1924 [21:27:18] <RoyK> alencar: I find it a nice thing to use
1925 [21:27:20] <Ankman> alencar: you can otherwise set up to block all traffic from outside your network
1926 [21:27:23] <alencar> greycat: Got it, thanks.
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1928 [21:28:02] <RoyK> so far, ufw can't handle things like nat without special configuration (iptables rules), but for filtering, it's good
1929 [21:28:18] <alencar> Ankman: you mean... nobody get it, but users can still access the internet?
1930 [21:28:31] <RoyK> yes
1931 [21:28:34] <Ankman> oh, never dealt with ufw. wrote iptables rules directly
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1935 [21:29:05] <RoyK> Ankman: I also do that if I really need to, but ufw is simpler and does a wee bit of background stuff as well
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1937 [21:29:47] <RoyK> remember "ufw allow 22/tcp comment "Allow SSH access from everywhere"
1938 [21:29:51] <RoyK> or something like that
1939 [21:29:59] <RoyK> so that you can get into the box later
1940 [21:30:08] <alencar> Ok
1941 [21:30:08] <Ankman> alencar: i suppose the classic NAT rule should sort this out. only connections to the internet from the local network (and back from the internet) are allowed
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1945 [21:30:32] <RoyK> alencar: is this a router or just a server?
1946 [21:30:34] <alencar> Ankman: I was imagining something like that
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1948 [21:30:41] <alencar> RoyK: Just a server
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1953 [21:32:25] <alencar> Guys, you helped me with this firewall chat. Thanks.
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1955 [21:33:43] <RoyK> one of the nice ufw things, is that comment, so if you open some weird port or open up from some address you won't remember tomorrow, you can make a comment on what it's from
1956 [21:33:52] <RoyK> s/from$/for/
1957 [21:34:12] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
1958 [21:34:27] <Ankman> reject all other traffic then
1959 [21:35:17] <Ankman> but then also the loval machines can't communicate with each other
1960 [21:35:22] <RoyK> that's in ufw by default, so I can't be bothered ;)
1961 [21:35:24] <annadane> do people find iptables syntax confusing (i'm aware nftables is a thing now)? the bsd people continually decry it
1962 [21:36:17] <RoyK> annadane: nftables is a bit better, or a lot better, but hell, ufw works
1963 [21:36:18] <greycat> Again, I would suggest that you do NOT restrain everything by default. Simply have all services listen only on the LAN interface, unless a specific service is meant to listen to the public Internet.
1964 [21:36:43] <greycat> (You *do* have multiple interfaces in all of your data center boxes, right?)
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1966 [21:37:22] <RoyK> greycat: most don't - just more redundant switches with redundant PSUs etc
1967 [21:37:29] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -i $LOCAL_DEVICE -j ACCEPT
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1969 [21:37:49] <RoyK> Ankman: add a -I before INPUT
1970 [21:37:53] <greycat> RoyK: do they even *sell* rack-mounted servers with less than 2 ethernet ports nowadays?
1971 [21:38:10] <Ankman> RoyK: okay, my mistake
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1976 [21:38:54] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -i $LOCAL_DEVICE -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
1977 [21:39:01] <RoyK> greycat: not really, but configuring failover for each server is a PITA and the chances of a high-end switch failing is so low it's usually not worth it
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1979 [21:39:16] <RoyK> Ankman: ufw enable ;)
1980 [21:39:23] <RoyK> Ankman: again, add -I before INPUT
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1983 [21:39:47] <greycat> So everyone is giving "firewall" answers because we're assuming that instead of a real data center, things are being set up like "a bunch of desktop PCs on a shelf".
1984 [21:40:07] <RoyK> I just don't understand why some people want to stick to iptables when they can just use something more admin-friendly
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1995 [21:41:16] <RoyK> greycat: there are several ways to control security in a datacentre. some use a big-ass firewall that cost $100k plus redundancy - some use local firewalls per machine
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1998 [21:41:58] <greycat> Does anyone use "all the machines are NATted, and if you want a specific port on a specific machine to be reachable from the Internet, we'll forward it from the router"?
1999 [21:42:16] <RoyK> if using local firewalls, if one machine is compromised, it won't mean everything else is being nuked as well
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2002 [21:42:32] <karlpinc> greycat: Yes.
2003 [21:42:53] * RoyK wants IPv6 everywhere
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2005 [21:43:11] <karlpinc> RoyK: Someone will just re-invent NAT.
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2007 [21:43:29] <RoyK> karlpinc: there is nat support for ipv6 too, for some stupid reason
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2012 [21:44:40] * RoyK waves his wand and shouts "luc ip16"
2013 [21:44:50] <karlpinc> RoyK: With v4 NAT is kind of handy in that all your IP address config is more centralized, so you can switch public IPs/change ISPs with less fussing. Otherwise :-P
2014 [21:44:57] <RoyK> ipv6, even
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2016 [21:45:23] <RoyK> karlpinc: with v4 NAT is only handy if you don't have enough addresses
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2021 [21:46:41] <RoyK> with ipv6, you usually get a /64 block (for businesses), meaning 65k networks with an address space of 2^48 per network, which should suffice
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2023 [21:47:03] * annadane smiles and nods
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2026 [21:48:00] <RoyK> last I checked, a lot want to limit to /56 to private customers, but still, that's 256 networks which should do
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2029 [21:48:35] <karlpinc> RoyK: Inevitably some admin will set it up so that there's only 255 addresses available for desktops, the rest being allocated for smoke detectors, and ti will be impossible to change.
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2032 [21:49:30] <RoyK> karlpinc: I beleive those people should be led off the premises and shot in the head
2033 [21:49:44] <dvs> RoyK, That many addresses seem like overkill to me because we'll run out of IPv6 addressses someday and we're just handing them out like candy right now.
2034 [21:50:03] <RoyK> dvs: no, we won't - do the math
2035 [21:50:33] <dvs> RoyK, Ok, we won't run out, in my lifetime. ;-)
2036 [21:50:45] <annadane> ipv8?
2037 [21:50:48] <RoyK> not in a thousand years
2038 [21:50:49] <dvs> heh
2039 [21:50:55] <lupine> people don't really grasp the size of the ipv6 address space
2040 [21:51:02] <RoyK> replaced-url
2041 [21:51:07] <annadane> i don't even understand ipv4, so.
2042 [21:51:24] <zathz> How can/should I automount to a fixed mountpoint my external nvme? I bought an external nvme usb 3.1 10gbps enclosure. It shows up as an USB device and as either sda/sdb (SCSI). smartmontools has issues with the bridge.
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2046 [21:52:41] <RoyK> zathz: never trust sdX-naming - use an UUID or LVM
2047 [21:52:42] <lupine> > There are enough /48 IPv6 address prefixes available to give every person on the planet about 4000 allocations before IANA has to release some more of the 80% of the space which is still undefined!
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2051 [21:53:21] <dvs> zathz, replaced-url
2052 [21:53:23] <lupine> almost all people only need 1 /48 of course, and only a small proportion of orgs need a /32, or multiple /32s
2053 [21:53:24] <zathz> RoyK, lsblk blkid does not show as the bridge is not passed
2054 [21:53:55] <zathz> I would like to stay away from custom udev ruling if possible
2055 [21:54:10] <RoyK> zathz: use an UUID
2056 [21:54:17] <RoyK> zathz: or just setup lvm on top and use that
2057 [21:54:36] <zathz> RoyK, like I said, it does not show, so I cannot use that afaik
2058 [21:54:53] <zathz> lvm without mounting?
2059 [21:54:57] <whislock> zathz: UUIDs are at the filesystem level. If you can't see the UUID, you can't see the filesystem.
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2061 [21:55:07] <RoyK> blkid /dev/something
2062 [21:55:19] <zathz> I can see my ext4 partition fine
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2064 [21:55:26] <dvs> zathz, yeah, did you put a filesystem on it yet?
2065 [21:55:28] <whislock> Then you can get its UUID. :)
2066 [21:55:37] <RoyK> it'll show you the UUID which can be used in fstab or similar
2067 [21:56:22] <zathz> yes, its ext4
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2073 [22:00:20] <zathz> got uuid now. thanks
2074 [22:00:53] <zathz> smartmon db update tool seems missing is Debian?
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2090 [22:11:08] <zathz> any recommendations for mount options?
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2100 [22:28:05] <ratrace> zathz: noatime
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2111 [22:33:59] <zathz> ratrace, thanks. currently i have: nofail,x-systemd.device-timeout=1ms,rw,sync
2112 [22:34:21] <zathz> I think noatime is not really needed given the speed
2113 [22:36:39] <zathz> speed is 1.4 GB/s r/w which is quite nice for an external drive
2114 [22:36:53] <zathz> without caching
2115 [22:37:07] <ratrace> atime has no use, and only wastes iops
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2117 [22:38:36] <RoyK> rebrec: don't use noitime - relitime works, and it's the default
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2119 [22:38:56] <RoyK> *relatime*
2120 [22:39:12] <RoyK> meaning atime is updated at most every 24 hours
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2122 [22:39:35] <RoyK> zathz: which filsystem?
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2124 [22:39:59] <RoyK> nfs?
2125 [22:40:15] <RoyK> no, probably not nfs
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2127 [22:40:25] <zathz> ext4 atm. I am considering lvm, currenly it is just plain ext4
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2129 [22:40:43] <RoyK> lvm isn't a filesystem ;)
2130 [22:40:50] <zathz> I know
2131 [22:40:56] <RoyK> I'd suggest setting up lvm anyway
2132 [22:41:05] <RoyK> and then put ext4 or xfs or something on it
2133 [22:41:11] <zathz> rest of laptop is lvm
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2135 [22:41:22] <RoyK> lvm is far more flexible than just old partitions
2136 [22:41:29] <RoyK> that's good
2137 [22:41:40] <somiaj> but it is an additional layer that isn't often needed (I am just fine with simple partitions)
2138 [22:41:52] <RoyK> but if it's a separate data drive, just put the pv on the drive, not the partition
2139 [22:42:18] <RoyK> somiaj: it's an additional layer that doesn't cost anything I/O wise, but can help a lot later
2140 [22:42:50] <RoyK> I use lvm for everything, that is, unless I'm using zfs
2141 [22:43:41] <somiaj> I'm thinking more in terms of recovery too, I just find that I don't need any of lvm's features, so tend to not use it as a result (but I only have 2-3 machines with two partitions, / and /home)
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2143 [22:43:46] <zathz> drawback seems to me that lvm binds. It is an external drive. With lvm it is fixed to a single device
2144 [22:43:52] <zathz> ie laptop
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2146 [22:44:25] <RoyK> lvm isn't fixed to anything, really
2147 [22:45:50] <RoyK> but anyway - for ext4, I'd recommend the defaults (being relatime,rw and so on), not sync (async is fine) and add errors=remount-ro
2148 [22:46:08] <RoyK> the latter so that if errors are found on the fs, it'll be remounted read-only
2149 [22:46:30] <RoyK> async is also way faster than sync
2150 [22:47:30] <zathz> thanks
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2153 [22:48:06] <RoyK> you may want to add 'acl' and 'user_xattr' in case you need those, but mostly, you won't
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2155 [22:49:00] <RoyK> not hard to add later, anyway
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2157 [22:49:34] <RoyK> btw, async is default, so no reason to add it expicitly
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2177 [23:03:19] <ratrace> whoa 10.2 already next weekend!
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2184 [23:07:35] <ryouma> when does stretch go lts?
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2186 [23:08:05] <greycat> !buster
2187 [23:08:05] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see replaced-url
2188 [23:08:15] <greycat> Should be around 2020-07-06.
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2192 [23:10:26] <ratrace> that Dachsund is typo'd. should be Dachshund. Dachs hund
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2201 [23:18:28] <rj1> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦
2202 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
2203 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋
2204 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⠈⠳⣄
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2209 [23:20:09] <raidghost> Is debian non-free important if i like to get hardware work propper ?
2210 [23:20:47] <NetGirl> not usually
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2212 [23:21:06] <NetGirl> but I don't see why you wouldn't use nvidias driver
2213 [23:21:13] <dvs> raidghost, it depends on your preferences
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2215 [23:21:19] <lupine> nvidia are not to be trusted
2216 [23:21:24] <NetGirl> lupine: why not
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2218 [23:21:28] <NetGirl> lupine: it's just a driver
2219 [23:21:32] <lupine> nouveau is fine
2220 [23:21:40] <whislock> Nouveau is crap for most purposes.
2221 [23:21:45] <lupine> disagree
2222 [23:21:52] <raidghost> Ive got a Intel 915 series Graphical card that just made it hell on earth to use with ubuntu.
2223 [23:22:04] <NetGirl> though, they artificially restrict it down on linux to match the limitations of windows, that's hilarious.
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2225 [23:22:29] <whislock> lupine: You're welcome to disagree. Doesn't change facts.
2226 [23:22:39] <lupine> ^5
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2230 [23:22:54] <NetGirl> lupine the nvidia driver is performing better and more stable
2231 [23:23:05] <NetGirl> less power used too for just average desktop use
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2233 [23:23:23] <whislock> Nouveau is vastly behind the proprietary driver in terms of performance and usability. That's just what it is.
2234 [23:24:09] <whislock> It sucks that the driver is proprietary, but that doesn't equate to "nvidia is not to be trusted." So let's keep things to facts from now on.
2235 [23:24:22] <JakeSqPants> oh, another popularity contest.
2236 [23:24:59] <raidghost> replaced-url
2237 [23:25:00] <whislock> JakeSqPants: Not sure how it's a popularity contest, but okay.
2238 [23:25:10] <raidghost> this is what meet me
2239 [23:25:39] <raidghost> Not sure if its the GPU that says "I cant take it anymore" or if its just a BUGGY intel driver
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2241 [23:25:47] <whislock> raidghost: Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever touched Intel graphics processors in this context.
2242 [23:26:13] <whislock> I've been under the impression that the i915 driver has been mature for a long time.
2243 [23:27:07] <raidghost> For me it has allways been a pain to get working 100% in linux
2244 [23:27:52] <raidghost> too often i just felt like "i got enought of this crap" and open window. Ready to just smash it from second floor. What a crappy hardware
2245 [23:28:29] <raidghost> My girlfriends laptop complains that there is no "Wifi card" broadcom chipset.
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2247 [23:28:53] <raidghost> I know the card is there. it has worked perfect since the install. but for some weird reasons it just "No wifi card found"
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2250 [23:30:14] <raidghost> So. i thought of testing debian 10 on the laptop. to see if it can BEHAVE better.
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2258 [23:31:55] <raidghost> So I can't quite land on which of the installations to go for
2259 [23:32:37] <raidghost> The non-free or the alternative unofficial image build which includes non-free firmware for extra support for some awkward hardware
2260 [23:33:11] <AvatarA> try unofficial non-free
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2272 [23:38:25] <raidghost> There is not just one file
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2279 [23:40:08] <AvatarA> on what webpage?
2280 [23:40:16] *** Joins: njka (~njka@replaced-ip )
2281 [23:40:35] <raidghost> AvatarA: can i pm u?
2282 [23:40:48] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2283 [23:41:22] <AvatarA> paste it here, discussion may be useful to someone else too
2284 [23:41:47] <raidghost> replaced-url
2285 [23:42:18] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2286 [23:42:26] *** Quits: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2287 [23:43:18] <AvatarA> one of the .iso files
2288 [23:43:27] <raidghost> So, if i like to use gnome, i go for the file ending with gnome+nonmfree+gnome?
2289 [23:43:28] *** Quits: yvy (~yvy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2290 [23:43:29] <AvatarA> with the preffered desktop environment
2291 [23:43:44] <AvatarA> cinnammon, gnome, lxde, kde, whatever you prefer
2292 [23:43:47] <raidghost> Never heard about cinnamon
2293 [23:43:53] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2294 [23:44:40] <AvatarA> it's what Linux Mint uses as far as I know
2295 [23:44:51] *** Quits: njka (~njka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2296 [23:44:59] <raidghost> the light weighter ?
2297 [23:45:18] <AvatarA> slightly more light weight, but not too much
2298 [23:45:30] <AvatarA> lxqt is very lightweight
2299 [23:45:56] <raidghost> guessing that lxqt and sinnamon works perfect on a 386SX or a 486DX
2300 [23:46:55] <zathz> doubt it
2301 [23:47:30] <raidghost> Would be fun if i could get unity desktop
2302 [23:48:02] *** Quits: stochastix (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2303 [23:48:22] *** Quits: Nokaji (~Nokaji@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ***** Extinction Rebellion's aim to overthrow dem' elected govt - ##replaced-url
2304 [23:48:45] *** Joins: saptech (~saptech@replaced-ip )
2305 [23:48:58] <raidghost> zathz: you doubt it, why?
2306 [23:49:23] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2307 [23:49:26] <raidghost> I was running redhat 3.0 with kde on my 486DX2 66Mhz with 73mb of ram
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2309 [23:50:50] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip )
2310 [23:50:51] <zathz> 73mb? Also: modern linuxes (and desktop managers) will have issues with 25 year old hardware
2311 [23:51:13] <rkeene> 73MB would be a lot
2312 [23:51:25] <rkeene> I had 8MB of RAM in my 486DX2/50
2313 [23:51:50] <raidghost> i did upgrade, the ram was not cheap
2314 [23:51:54] <zathz> yes, extremely. also a weird amount
2315 [23:52:28] <raidghost> my first machine was a 386 sx 33Mhz wit 2mb of ram
2316 [23:52:41] <zathz> it could address more then 64mb?
2317 [23:52:52] <zathz> *than
2318 [23:53:18] <raidghost> could it be 64mb of ram maybe
2319 [23:53:25] <zathz> those were fun. Compile kernel. Running 48 hrs. Kernel compile fails...
2320 [23:53:28] <TandyUK> your first machines had MB lucky sods
2321 [23:53:37] <TandyUK> mine was maxed out with 640KB lol
2322 [23:53:49] <rkeene> TandyUK, No, first machines running Linux were
2323 [23:53:51] <raidghost> was it not bill gates that said all you need is 640KB ?
2324 [23:53:51] <zathz> I started with 32kb
2325 [23:53:52] <TandyUK> I did have a 20MB hard disk though
2326 [23:53:55] *** Joins: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2327 [23:53:56] * lupine pats the old vic-20
2328 [23:54:00] <rkeene> My first computer was an IBM PCjr with 16KB
2329 [23:54:01] <zathz> lol
2330 [23:54:01] <ratrace> was it a Tandy? :)
2331 [23:54:10] <TandyUK> nah Amstrad PC-1640 lol
2332 [23:54:22] <raidghost> TandyUK: My drive was 250MB hard drive. renember upgraded to 3.2GB Bigfoot something drive
2333 [23:54:28] <raidghost> I thought. I never run out of space
2334 [23:54:30] <TandyUK> I didnt find out Tandy made computers till i was nearly an adult
2335 [23:54:30] <rkeene> Oops, 64KB
2336 [23:54:54] <TandyUK> I remember paying £170 for a 17Gb disk one time
2337 [23:54:57] <raidghost> I renember that it was VGA EGA CGA og TANDY
2338 [23:55:01] <TandyUK> ~4TB for that now lol
2339 [23:55:18] <raidghost> TandyUK: 4TB in that time. It would be "WOOOOOOOW factor"
2340 [23:55:28] <TandyUK> "wtf is TB" lol
2341 [23:55:44] <raidghost> 4ThousandBytes ? :p
2342 [23:55:51] <TandyUK> still planty rofl
2343 [23:55:55] <TandyUK> plenty*
2344 [23:56:10] <raidghost> I thought i never could fill up my 3.2GB drive
2345 [23:56:17] <raidghost> But i figured out that later . Its 1 Mp3 song
2346 [23:56:31] <TandyUK> thats a huge mp3
2347 [23:56:48] <raidghost> not mp3 but like 1 tvserie episode
2348 [23:56:49] <TandyUK> my current 54TB is running out :S
2349 [23:56:59] <raidghost> TandyUK: Mine 82TB is running out
2350 [23:57:13] <annadane> wat
2351 [23:57:14] <raidghost> i need to buy more drives. But i dont have space to mount them
2352 [23:57:17] *** Quits: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2353 [23:57:38] <TandyUK> bargainhardware, HP DL380e chassis if you dont mind a hovercraft nearby :P
2354 [23:57:39] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2355 [23:57:53] <raidghost> Is it loud?
2356 [23:57:54] *** Quits: xinming_ (~xinming@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2357 [23:57:57] <raidghost> Or fanless?
2358 [23:58:01] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip )
2359 [23:58:07] <TandyUK> plus 3 extra quad port nics, iscsi'd to my esxi is what i have atm
2360 [23:58:11] <TandyUK> loud?
2361 [23:58:18] <raidghost> Is it livingroom friendly?
2362 [23:58:19] <TandyUK> think like being near a plane at takeoff
2363 [23:58:21] <TandyUK> NO rofl
2364 [23:58:39] *** Quits: Ard1t (~ard1t@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
2365 [23:58:48] <TandyUK> not even livingroom 3 doors away friendly lol
2366 [23:58:57] <raidghost> TandyUK: i found a HP workstation at school. It did sound like a plane that did a takeoff
2367 [23:59:06] *** Quits: yvan (~tekmans@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2368 [23:59:33] <TandyUK> its like they *tried* to make it as noisy as possible lol
2369 [23:59:38] <raidghost> :P
2370 [23:59:43] *** Joins: AlexPortable (uid7568@replaced-ip )
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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