12[00:08:38] <HelloShitty> Tell me something about elinks, if you guys know... When you run elinks and open, for instance, duckduckgo, you get some results. You open one of the links from the results. What if you want to go back to the results?
103[00:48:22] <CrystalMath> i really don't want to run a signed kernel, it restricts some debugging features, and it has no purpose (i don't have UEFI)
276[02:13:33] <cinesc> need to edit grub to match a package I downloaded with the terminal before I restart in case something unexpected happen
277[02:13:39] <tomreyn> use the terminal if you need to work outside of your home and directories your restricted user has access to
278[02:14:00] <cinesc> yes trying to do that
279[02:14:07] <annadane> does anyone know why hexchat constantly ignores me /ignore freenode-connect so i don't get the ctcp version check every time on startup? =/
280[02:14:18] <annadane> ignores my*
281[02:14:33] <annadane> at least the first few times...
282[02:14:50] <cinesc> going to try with nautilus instead
292[02:18:08] <tomreyn> no you're not tryint to work with the temrinal, you're trying to start a graphical file browser as the root user, which can't work since root doesn't run an X server, and then have that graphical file browser access a directory your restricted user has no access to. that's two mistakes at once.
293[02:18:25] *** Quits: dude187 (~chris@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
294[02:18:39] <cinesc> weird thing it worked on another computer
324[02:28:41] <tomreyn> Thienma: you'd need to pick a chipset, then base don that hopefully find a brand and model which sells with this chipset. this is maybe a bit outdated replaced-url
325[02:29:15] <cinesc> how do I open a file within i (not as in open to pop up in a new window like a window) and edit?
409[03:11:10] <oxek> any recommendation for a wifi-n or wifi-ac USB adapter that works in debian without non-free firmware?
410[03:11:14] *** Quits: ajunior (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
411[03:12:23] <Ether_Man> Is there something I have to do before I can mount a btrfs fs when booting in rescue mode from install disk? I've mounted the fs before during the install from the same media and all but it won't during rescue? Getting invalid argument error from mount, and syslog says it can't read the system array and open_ctree failed. Multidrive array if that matters
474[03:46:15] <apteryx> karlpinc: that's where I looked at, and in the rules file, couldn't find anything particular done to site-start.el. Just wanted to confirm.
496[04:05:03] <karlpinc> apteryx: I suppose it is possible that some other package puts something somewhere that alters emacs' behavior. But then it's not really emacs that is the issue.
497[04:06:05] <karlpinc> apteryx: Or it could be a debian patch to some other part of emacs. You'd have to look at all the patches descriptions. (I presume there are descriptions.)
522[04:25:26] <dpkg> README.Debian (or README.Debian.gz) is a document found in the /usr/share/doc/$packagename/ which explains any Debian specific details in the package's operation or configuration.
606[05:50:02] <n-iCe> hi guys, how do I know if my wifi card works with Debian. When using the netinstall ( 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev 73)
634[06:14:00] <sfplehardy> Hi guys ! Hope you doing well ! So when I start my computer no more grub... It happened just like that, no known reason why... So when I am supposed to see Grub screen, I have a black screen that show only "_" and no way to type anything.......
635[06:15:22] <sfplehardy> From live-debian I can see boot file with grub in it
636[06:16:06] <sfplehardy> It's really strange for me, but I have a very basic knowledge
637[06:17:27] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
757[07:05:39] <co1or> hey ive been doing a lot of research, and apparently, if I *DO* "downgrade" ("upgrade"?) to Debian from LinuxMint, I will still be able to do all the things I can already do on LinuxMint. (Apparently, there are open source drivers available for most categories hardware, that will be compatible with the vast majority of makes & models. [*THAT'S* what I was concerned about before!])
758[07:06:07] <co1or> categories OF hardware*
759[07:06:08] <sfphlehardy> wawowe -> mount | grep mntpnt/dev/sda2 on /mntpnt type ext4 (rw,relatime)
760[07:06:30] <klys> co1or, would you mind reinstalling?
761[07:07:21] <co1or> ((and even if they dont come WITH the default installation, they are probably easily downloaded via "apt-get install" or some such similar method.)
762[07:07:33] <wawowe> sfphlehardy: ok, go ahead with the next part
765[07:08:27] <co1or> klys: i will probably burn a live cd first, to test the waters. then do a seperate partition install, so i can keep my existing OS.
766[07:08:38] <klys> co1or, if you have room, I suggest starting by getting a simple enough debian system in a chroot, and then swapping out mint
774[07:13:13] *** Quits: sfphlehardy (ca99507d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
775[07:13:17] <co1or> ok i just looked up chroot. apparently, it "tricks" a program into thinking that the root directory is somewhere else? correct? (like sandboxing?)
776[07:13:23] <klys> yes
777[07:13:44] <co1or> so i would be "tricking" what exactly? the DEbian INSTALLER?
778[07:13:45] <klys> and you can build a basic system in a chroot with complete commandline functionality.
779[07:14:17] <klys> and to install, I suggest using the debootstrap tool, pointing it to your new root directory.
784[07:15:40] *** Quits: ilikeyou (uid389024@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
785[07:15:54] <co1or> imma look up "debootstrap"... so i would be using chroot to make Debian's installer BELIEVE it's installing to "/", but its actually installing to "/my/arbitrary/folder"???
791[07:17:00] <sfplehardy> Me, wife and our 5 kids we thank you wawowe, trek00 as well ! Thanks
792[07:18:24] <co1or> just to make certain i understand, chroot is only "SIMILAR" to a sandbox. it only protects against accidents, NOT "malice", CORRECT? (afterall, a program that *TRULY* wants to "see" the "real, true" file structure could still do so, if it were coded to do so, right?
796[07:20:54] <co1or> klys: last question before i do it: what is the *biggest* or *most important* difference between Debian and a Debian-BASED distro?
797[07:21:17] <co1or> the apps? desktop environment?
798[07:21:37] <klys> co1or, probably the desktop environment.
799[07:21:59] <klys> co1or, there are other important differences, though.
802[07:23:23] <co1or> ok. LinuxMint ships with Mate by default. Ive been using Linux for about 30 days now. So far, Im in love with Mate. (I HATE Ubuntu's newer "gnome3/Unity/whatever-its-called" desktop.)
803[07:23:46] *** Quits: grady (uid91014@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
815[07:26:36] <klys> originally, gnu systems booted with scripts via systemd. the /etc/inittab regulated the whole boot process.
816[07:26:41] <wawowe> sfplehardy: You can edit the /boot/efi line in /etc/fstab to have the options: noauto,umask=0077 to help prevent corruption in the future
817[07:27:11] <klys> now, systemd has taken over the boot process, largely because we thought it was too slow to run in a single thread.
818[07:28:23] <klys> systemd is very complex, and if you want to install a boot-time script, you can do so with a "unit file" in /etc/systemd/system/ which contains a few stanzas of info and points to your script.
819[07:29:00] <klys> most boot-time init scripts are stored in /etc/init.d/ with symlinks to aid sysvinit in /etc/rc?.d/
820[07:29:36] * co1or following you the best i can...
821[07:29:50] * co1or listens attentively
822[07:29:55] <klys> systemd is replacing that, though, and you'll find evidence of it in /etc/systemd, /lib/systemd, and maybe a few other places.
823[07:30:21] <klys> sysvinit was a very simple program, one that insisted on being started at PID 1
824[07:30:38] <klys> systemd replaces /sbin/init and runs as PID 1.
825[07:30:44] <diogenes_> klys, you mean originally GNU systems booted with scripts via sysVinit and not systemd?
826[07:30:57] <klys> diogenes_, yes
827[07:31:16] <klys> oh I made that typo, I will correct.
846[07:36:44] <klys> co1or, the source code for unix was kept back by SCO for some years. GNU grep was a complete replacement of Unix grep, for example. it was later released for viewing a decade ago. well, Unix is now called openindiana, near as I can tell.
848[07:39:02] <co1or> so proprietary UNIX is no more?
849[07:39:13] <klys> co1or, the gnu project, (gnu's not unix) and the free software foundation are excellent reads for this topic.
850[07:39:44] <klys> it's "open-source" and there are always several proprietary Unices available.
851[07:40:27] <co1or> ok. i dont wanna ask too much questions at one time. thank you for answering
852[07:40:28] <klys> if you want to talk about proprietary posix-level systems, you may bo looking at Mac OS X.
853[07:40:47] <klys> be*
854[07:40:50] <sfplehardy> Okay wawowe thank you
855[07:40:58] <co1or> oh no. I DONT wanna use proprietary systems unless forced to
856[07:41:09] <co1or> at gunpoint
857[07:41:17] <co1or> lol
858[07:41:47] <klys> co1or, like I said, read at the fsf.org and gnu.org sites. read the GPL v2 and v3. look at the AGPL and make sure you know the basic differences.
1046[09:39:33] <if_e1se_> `apt install` default show install packages with line mode. I want to find a way to show install package show like list mode.
1061[09:43:36] <wxb> Hi. Well, I'm still in the process of trying to dual boot Windows (unencrypted) and Debian 10 (LUKS). Having some issues, and worries. I god the firmware iso and even with that the Debian install is telling me that it can't contect to internet... what could be going on?
1070[09:47:53] <wxb> 'Your network is probably not using the DHCP protocol. Alternatively, the DHCP server may be slow or some network hardware is not working properly.'
1071[09:48:06] <wxb> Does this mean that I can wave wifi on this machine goodbye?
1081[09:51:33] <RoyK> wxb: no idea which one that is - they usually don't have that long model names. I just thought about an issue I came across replaced-url
1118[10:01:03] <wxb> I should enter your command RoyK
1119[10:01:04] <wxb> ?
1120[10:01:17] <ratrace> wxb: ok, so when the menu appears, hit 'e', scroll down to the line starting with linux /vmlinuz ... and append to it intremap=off and hit F10 to continue booting
1161[10:14:09] <wxb> ratrace, this is for a friend, and they wouldn't be fine with that...
1162[10:14:29] <ratrace> wxb: well at least to attempt installation and see if you can fix the built-in wifi later
1163[10:14:39] <wxb> I'm trying to introduce him to linux, so that would be a bad image....
1164[10:14:41] <ratrace> those things cost a few bucks, no loss even if you can't do anything with it
1165[10:15:37] <wxb> ratrace, RoyK But what would this solution entail? Why is the firmware iso not working? What else can one actually do?
1166[10:15:46] <ratrace> wxb: yea there's a reason "the year of the linux desktop" never happen and never will happen
1167[10:16:03] <wxb> for shit like this lol
1168[10:16:29] <ratrace> wxb: I'm not sure how much freedom you've got in that installer, but maybe you can Alt-Fx (say, F2) to another TTY and try some debugging via dmesg, cryptsetup
1185[10:19:52] <Kyros> I dont know exactly. Is all of the stuff from non-free and contrib on that iso?
1186[10:20:35] <ratrace> wrksx: well, I'm not sure what's going on then, if the user is not logged in AS, anywhere. you can always reboot into console mode, log in as root, and reconfigure the system in peace :)
1198[10:22:38] <Kyros> You know it's possible that the iso has the firmware but you need to actually install it.
1199[10:23:33] <wrksx> ratrace: actually that's a server, I wouldn't be happy to reboot it
1200[10:23:47] <ratrace> wrksx: I'd reboot and login as root, never touching that user login, I'm guessing maybe a previous user session is keeping something attached to that
1201[10:24:24] <wrksx> The blocking process is 29945 can I check what it's doin?
1202[10:24:55] <wxb> Kyros, Interesting. Good point.
1214[10:27:36] <wrksx> ratrace: I made an sshfs that weirdly failed yesterday, maybe that's from that
1215[10:28:06] <wrksx> ratrace: thanks, lsof offers no more clues
1216[10:28:09] <ratrace> wrksx: though that's sd-pam, the systemd-pam integration thingy, from what I read around it's possible it'll remain active even after the user logout
1223[10:29:21] <Ede|Popede> wrksx: got 2 of them, htop says "/lib/systemd/systemd (deleted)" -- should be because of update with no reboot (or restart) happening since
1224[10:29:30] <ratrace> wrksx: maybe you can kill it
1225[10:29:44] <wxb> pkill!!
1226[10:30:08] <ratrace> no, I'd use regular kill with -p and snipe that pid only
1227[10:30:09] *** Quits: AndikaSagala (~AndikaSag@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1228[10:30:25] <Ede|Popede> or have som fun with psdoom ;)
1252[10:38:17] <RoyK> wxb: perhaps swearing in church now, but sometimes Ubuntu comes with newer driver versions than those in Debian. I generally prefer Debian, but on some laptops etc, I still stick to Ubuntu, since it's more focused on the "new and shiny" as opposed to "shiny enough and stable" approach of Debian
1254[10:39:02] <wxb> RoyK, Cool. Thanks for the pragmatic advice!
1255[10:39:21] <ratrace> it's not just that, Ubuntu often does kernel patches and drivers that are not available elsewhere, not even in the latest and greatest, still hot from the oven, just released Debian.
1256[10:39:44] <ratrace> that's also a double edged sword, wrt the said stability.
1276[10:51:58] <ratrace> software in general got bloatier and buggier and of lower quality
1277[10:52:32] <Habbie> i've always felt that d-i was just the price of admission, a huge hurdle to take, to get to a very nice system to run
1278[10:52:39] <Habbie> i also feel it's gotten better over the years
1279[10:52:56] <ratrace> was quite surprised to see that after years of reliable booting Debian, Stretch failed to boot after installation due to nouveau having issues with my (rather old at that point) nvidia
1280[10:53:08] <Habbie> except when there's hardware involved, yes
1281[10:53:17] <wxb> Habbie, I get that feeling. Once it's installed, it's great, but getting there is absolute 'no I have nothing else to do in life' time-hole hell.
1282[10:53:26] <ratrace> and I mean hard boot blocker, not just a hickup. required rebooting to console and installing the proprietary driver
1283[10:53:41] <annadane> people should also stop supporting nvidia
1284[10:54:04] <ratrace> annadane: true and I'm aiming at full upgrade to AMD from intelvidia.
1285[10:54:27] <ratrace> but ironically... for years, nvidia meant stable GPU on Linux, at least with the proprietary driver and what sorry state AMD was before they went full FOSS
1286[10:54:31] <annadane> same i just don't know if what i end up getting is too new for buster
1287[10:54:56] <ratrace> back in 2006, when I weened myself off from windows, a nvidia based laptop with atheros wifi was pretty much the only thing that would work
1288[10:55:05] <annadane> yeah, well, that's typically the case - company x is initially the best thing to use, then they get greedy and subvert their original principles and voila, you have vendor lockin
1293[10:56:35] <wrksx> I'm tryin to follow your conversation here, but i don't get the issue really. Is it that vendors don't provide drivers at all, that drivers are closed source, or something else?
1294[10:56:39] <ratrace> annadane: well I can safely say that so far I never had issues with the proprietary nvidia driver, exclusing the "does not work with wayland compositors" mega-issue, and ONE time when gnome upgraded on ubuntu and hit a bug with the proprietary driver, years ago
1308[10:59:12] <strk> I'd rather not write to disk
1309[10:59:21] <strk> and change other users setups
1310[10:59:28] <ratrace> then I have no idea
1311[10:59:57] <annadane> wrksx, from my limited knowledge the issue isn't just that it's closed source but that nvidia firmware signs their card cryptographically so it's even harder for nouveau to get access... or something
1315[11:00:42] <annadane> my first ever linux experience was using KDE with nouveau and having it constantly freeze... it's fun to think you're the one to blame rather than a graphics company being hostile to open source
1316[11:01:01] <ratrace> strk: alias it or script a custom apt call for yourself
1317[11:01:02] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1321[11:01:25] <ratrace> wxb: it's a good default unless you know you want or need another fs
1322[11:01:31] <wrksx> Okay so sometimes no drivers, when you have a driver it's closed src and on top of that it's as locked as possible with the hardware.
1342[11:04:33] <ratrace> wrksx: accepted into the main kernel tree, as opposed to being an "out of tree" module that you then have to rebuild on each kernel update separately
1361[11:08:05] <ratrace> wrksx: one of two main reasons why I'm switching to full AMD hardware. the other is spectre/meltdown and intel's douche-y behavior around it
1375[11:11:28] <ratrace> wrksx: it'll be 5 years for me. :) I switched away from Phenom to i5 MONTHS before ryzen was announced. If I only knew they were gonna raise from the ashes like that, I'd never do it.
1392[11:14:08] <annadane> more than anything else i'm pretty sure my nvidia card stops being supported in 'mainline' and becomes 'legacy' when buster switches to bullseye so... great time to get off nvidia
1394[11:14:19] <ratrace> wrksx: would've bitten me hard, as at that time I was fully a gentooligan and the bug affected gentoo systems (or any cpu heavy workload, like compiling is)
1400[11:15:32] <annadane> time to start my AMD research, i can probably just buy a decently old ryzen now so it's guaranteed supported in bullseye
1401[11:15:33] <wxb> wrksx, Nope. Different problem. Same absence of luck. lol
1402[11:16:21] <ratrace> annadane: I'm waiting for ryzen2 bugs to surface, if any, get fixed, and then it's upgrade time for me! :)
1403[11:17:35] <annadane> which unrelatedly, speaking of companies doing stupid things, the recommendation for linux laptop users has typically been thinkpads, right? thinkpads are owned by lenovo... who were responsible for the superfish thing
1404[11:17:46] <annadane> so um... yeah, not supporting that company with my money, either
1407[11:18:32] <ratrace> annadane: precisely. though methinks thinkpad got hyped when it was just IBM, and the rest is just inertia. I never owned a thinkpad and never had an issue with any laptop I had.
1409[11:18:55] <ratrace> I mean back then it was really one of the rare JustWorks(tm) platforms, but nowadays it's not
1410[11:19:08] <annadane> linux you mean?
1411[11:19:13] <Kats99> So I installed Nvidia drivers and it didn't work out...the X server doesn't start so I installed it but when I purge Nvidia it shows a lot of files related to Nvidia saying package Nvidia 390 not installed so not removed. What should I do to remove them?
1412[11:19:17] <ratrace> annadane: yes of course :)
1413[11:19:28] <annadane> great timing, kats :P
1414[11:19:45] <Kats99> Oh u have the same problem
1415[11:19:53] <annadane> no, we were just cursing out nvidia generally
1416[11:19:58] <Kats99> Pls help me. I don't want to reinstall Debian
1417[11:20:02] <ratrace> annadane: I've been "Linux only" since 2006, with a brief exception of some short dual booting with win for steam games, but that ended quickly.
1418[11:20:29] <Kats99> The packages aren't installed but they exist somewhere and I want to remove them
1435[11:22:54] <towo^work> Kats99, and where xou gat the message about nvidia?
1436[11:23:03] <ratrace> wrksx: lol :)
1437[11:23:06] <ratrace> wxb: end of what?
1438[11:23:14] <wxb> oh the whole dual-boot thing.
1439[11:23:16] <Kats99> When I type apt-get purge Nvidia*
1440[11:23:22] <wxb> It all seemed so simple yesterday.
1441[11:23:25] <towo^work> Kats99, and you wonder?
1442[11:23:40] <towo^work> Kats99, you can't purge packages, which are not installed
1443[11:23:40] <Kats99> What about it?
1444[11:23:41] <wxb> Right now I'm still at partitioning the SSD.
1445[11:23:51] <Kats99> I even tried remove
1446[11:23:57] <ratrace> Kats99: so wait, what nvidia files are still around?
1447[11:24:01] <wxb> And have little hope for a working wifi. Alas. The price is great to leave windows.
1448[11:24:02] <Kats99> Yes
1449[11:24:09] <Kats99> Wait
1450[11:24:22] <wrksx> wxb: you're on a laptop I guess
1451[11:24:39] <Kats99> There are so many of them but they all are like nvidia-legacy-390xx
1452[11:24:54] <ratrace> wxb: I'd suggest trying the Ubuntu live ISO, no need to install anything. if that works, I'd then hunt down the driver used in ubuntu and check if it's a SAUCE thing (kerlen patches done in Ubuntu exclusively, not yet upstreamed), or if it's a regular driver available in Debian somehow
1453[11:25:19] <wrksx> New screen just arrived, time for some pleasant (I hope!) unboxing
1454[11:25:28] <ratrace> Kats99: wait... what are you talking about? if dpkg -l | grep nvidia shows no output, you don't have any packages installed
1461[11:26:39] <wxb> This machine is a few years old I think.
1462[11:26:50] <ratrace> Kats99: oh.... when you do glob for apt like nvidia* it actually does a pattern match against all names in the db, and naturally will tell you that because it found packages that match the pattern but aren't installed
1463[11:27:10] <wrksx> seeu guys later
1464[11:27:11] <ratrace> Kats99: in reality, you should very rarely use * glob for apt
1475[11:29:25] <ratrace> Kats99: yes I just explained to you why it does that
1476[11:29:49] <Kats99> Yea I understood..but do u happen to know other packages like that?
1477[11:30:11] <Kats99> Ok ok I got it
1478[11:30:12] <ratrace> Kats99: I'm sorry you're NOT making any sense at all
1479[11:30:20] <Kats99> I tested libre*
1480[11:30:37] <Kats99> Yea..I know
1481[11:30:43] <ratrace> Kats99: so back to square one. dpkg -l | grep nvidia shows no output, meaning no nvidia proprietary driver is installed. You rebooted..... and now you have what symptoms?
1483[11:31:04] <Kats99> None..the glob was the problem here
1484[11:31:13] <ratrace> with no nvidia proprietary installed, the kernel module nouveau (the FOSS nvidia driver) will be used automatically, unless you manually blacklisted it
1485[11:31:21] <ratrace> Kats99: no you mentioned somethign with xorg
1486[11:31:59] <ratrace> Kats99: unless it all works fine with nouveau and you just had an issue with understanding apt's behavior with globs?
1487[11:32:00] <Kats99> Yea I typed nvidia-xconfig and restarted
1488[11:32:07] <Kats99> But then it didn't start at all
1492[11:32:50] <ratrace> Kats99: I'd remove any nvidia configs that xconfig did, and reboot into plain nouveau, no forced config mode, see if that works. In general, a xorg.conf is NOT needed these days unless you need to change a specific defautl behavior
1493[11:33:33] <Kats99> Yep I did just as u mentioned..no xorg file...and using nouveau
1494[11:33:50] <ratrace> Kats99: and the symptoms now are.... ?
1495[11:34:00] <Kats99> None as I said
1496[11:34:15] <Kats99> But I wished to use Nvidia drivers but they aren't working
1497[11:34:32] <ratrace> Kats99: okay. what's the GPU model you have there?
1498[11:34:44] <Kats99> Geforce 525
1499[11:36:00] <Kats99> It asks me to install 390xx drivers
1500[11:36:06] <ratrace> Kats99: which debian you have there?
1501[11:36:11] <Kats99> 10
1502[11:37:05] <Kats99> But when I install the 390 drivers
1503[11:37:13] <Kats99> It asks me to run xconfig
1504[11:37:17] <Kats99> And reboot
1505[11:37:28] <Kats99> But when I restart the screen stats blank
1506[11:37:36] <ratrace> Kats99: so you installed the "nvidia-graphics-drivers-legacy-390xx" package?
1507[11:37:58] <Kats99> Correct
1508[11:38:56] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
1509[11:39:12] <Kats99> I installed and removed them for 5 times..waste of data
1510[11:39:57] <ratrace> Kats99: it'd be very helpful to provide the dmesg dump and /var/log/Xorg.0.log in a pastebin, for the boot session with those drivers, that doesn't start x
1588[11:56:27] <wasamasa> clearly none of you had latin in school
1589[11:56:31] <ratrace> Kats99: it's not necessary to install nvidia at all. You said nouveau was working fine, so just use that then.
1590[11:56:36] <annadane> we all fail.
1591[11:56:43] <towo^work> it does not use nouveau at all
1592[11:56:44] * themill did which is why he corrected it.
1593[11:56:50] <Fox> I had, but in french we say CQFD, not QED :)
1594[11:56:52] <towo^work> it is using the intel chipset
1595[11:56:53] <ratrace> Or was that intel then, given it's optimus, it could've been intel --- what I mean, revert to having no nvidia driver installed :)
1596[11:57:18] <Kats99> Idk if my bios would allow that
1597[11:57:28] <ratrace> towo^work: yes I see that now, back then they did not mention a peep about it being hybrid
1598[11:57:48] <ratrace> Kats99: allow what? you said it worked fine.......
1599[11:58:05] <themill> (also …dum not …tum)
1600[11:58:27] <ratrace> i'm gonna start charging for every minute lost to trying to REparse, multiple times, what suportees are trying to say
1609[12:01:19] <dka> I wanted to upgrade from Debian Stretch to Debian Buster, I did in order: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo apt-get full-upgrade; sudo apt-get --purge autoremove; sudo sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list; sudo sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*; sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade; I went to sleep and woke up, the sudo apt upgrade commande is stuck. I have Get:1064 replaced-url
1610[12:01:19] <Kats99> Btw what's the command to increase volume in pulse audio??
1623[12:03:56] <ratrace> otherwise use any of the gui things, pavucontrol for example if you don't have a desktop with the audio control already present
1624[12:04:09] <Kats99> I wanted to setup a keyboard shortcut
1644[12:12:33] <dka> Can I reboot in the middle of `sudo apt upgrade` ? I wanted to upgrade stretch to buster, I was expecting to finish during a sleep, but now I see the gnome-background download super extra slow , 2,150 B/s
1651[12:13:48] *** Quits: Kats99 (~Kats99@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1652[12:13:53] <crivrc> Hi, anyone knows how to start openvpn using debian supplied systemd files? I try systemctl start openvpn but nothing happens, it just says Started OpenVPN service, but the daemon is not running and nothing is listening in the udp port defined in /etc/openvpn/server.conf
1653[12:14:09] <ratrace> dka: however, if the upgrade is still at that initial stage of downloading packages and not even ONE has installed, _maybe_ you can indeed cut it short with no ill effects, but I can't 100% guarantee that
1654[12:14:28] <ratrace> dka: I have, in the past, stopped apt upgrade tasks while they were still at the download phase, with no side effects
1655[12:14:44] <dka> How can I know if I am in the download phase ?
1656[12:14:53] <dka> oh
1657[12:14:54] <dka> Get :
1658[12:14:57] <dka> ok I just cut it
1659[12:15:01] <dka> ty
1660[12:15:02] *** Quits: r2rien (~me@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1661[12:15:15] <ratrace> dka: ctrl-c should suffice, no need to reboot
1662[12:15:20] *** PipeItToDevNull is now known as PipeItToSda
1679[12:19:26] <nicknamee> hello, how would I go about rebooting a Debian10? all green OKs, reached target reboot and now it's repeating task systemd-shutdown blocked for more than 120 seconds
1680[12:20:19] <Lope> what is that simple command for quickly benchmarking the read speed of a hard drive/SSD?
1681[12:20:56] <Lope> I seem to recall it's hdparm something, but I don't see a relevant benchmark in the man page
1698[12:27:29] <crivrc> yes colo-work, it says active (exited) but I see that I have a file /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/openvpn.service which aparently does nothing.
1699[12:28:01] <colo-work> crivrc, did you upgrade from an earlier Debian release to buster?
1700[12:28:33] <crivrc> yes, I looked into /lib/systemd/system-generators/openvpn-generator
1701[12:28:54] <crivrc> I modified /etc/default/openvpn
1708[12:29:59] <han-solo> service `openvpn` seems to be simply a systemd target
1709[12:30:18] <han-solo> there's `openvpn-server` too
1710[12:30:59] <ratrace> nicknamee: power cycle it, then enable persistent journal to see what might've gone wrong with previous boot session, though this late in it it's probably not gonna log anything
1711[12:31:33] *** Quits: Unline (~Unline@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1712[12:31:56] <colo-work> crivrc, I don't really remember how I did the conversion for our server... but it was fairly straightforward
1715[12:32:17] <colo-work> (the changelog would probably point into the right direction)
1716[12:32:47] <crivrc> I am not doing any conversion, I just starting from scratch, I copied an example configuration from /usr/share/doc/openvpn/examples and filled in the details
1717[12:33:55] <crivrc> I've setup up previous openvpn before, before systemd.
1724[12:38:50] <ratrace> nicknamee: nope, it's not. ideall you need to look up journalctl -b -n 100 for example, to see last 100 entries from previous boot session. nicknamee also, -p err will show syslog "error" severity entries, and if you really need to grep, always use -i
1725[12:40:02] *** Quits: wxb (~uio3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1733[12:43:56] <crivrc> now it starts up (it fails because of a config error, though) but it starts up when I type: systemctl start openvpn\@server.service
1761[12:51:26] *** Quits: lorenzo (~lorenzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: lorenzo)
1762[12:51:31] <nicknamee> wxb: no, as it boots straight into debian WITH the usb plugged in and no boot prompts appear. it just won't reboot with it present
1767[12:54:54] <ratrace> nicknamee: it's worth figuring out what service or condition prevented it, and configure system or that service/condition, not to do that
1768[12:54:59] <dka> How can I select the appropriate and fastest mirroir for apt ?
1807[13:05:02] <dka> minissdpd needs to specify the interface for uPnP queries
1808[13:05:04] <nicknamee> internet says error is related to usb power exceeded, which does not make much sense to me, as this error persisted through several power cycles
1809[13:05:28] <debianfan2439> first it did begin that i did install on my computer this iso image "debian-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" from a website
1810[13:05:45] <debianfan2439> hello (i do tell you my prodecure how i did it, so maybe it helps to find the problem)
1811[13:06:01] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1812[13:06:30] <debianfan2439> i dont know why but i did have such a dark deep feeling in me while i did download the image file, because strange things did happen at this time ... i dont want to say that the image file was compromised by an attacker hacker compromiser cracker guy or something but it was just a feeling
1813[13:06:55] *** Quits: Zathras (~Zzzth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1816[13:07:11] <debianfan2439> and if it is true then my computer is maybe not longer secure, or im i wrong? because i did already install the image on my computer system and, please correct me if i am wrong, the bios seems changed since then... i mean since i did install it on the computer
1817[13:07:25] <annadane> well, the 'a website', i hope, was from debian's website
1820[13:07:55] <debianfan2439> no it was not the debian.org website it was a strange name i dont remember
1821[13:08:08] <debianfan2439> anyways, after i did install debian on my computer, i did login to my tty console and not long after that, i did get a message from a random user in a security irc chat channel
1822[13:08:15] *** Quits: udet (~RalphBa@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1824[13:08:24] <debianfan2439> he said to me that i sould install the software he did send to me, to make my debian linux system immune to common viruses and so-called "black trojan horses"
1825[13:08:36] <annadane> ...download debian from the actual debian website, and wipe your computer and install that
1826[13:08:37] <debianfan2439> so i did not think much and install the software on my debian linux system version name buster
1827[13:08:53] *** Quits: if_e1se_ (uid16886@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1828[13:09:14] <debianfan2439> annadane but this is also a problem because since i did install the debian on my computer my bios did change
1830[13:09:42] <debianfan2439> i can not longer do something on my bios it is like something is encrypted
1831[13:10:06] <debianfan2439> i can not change settings or choose the boot medium
1832[13:10:19] <annadane> yeah, that's a good point. maybe someone else has an idea
1833[13:11:05] <debianfan2439> after i did install the anti viruses and black trojan horses software, my debian linux system did restart automatically. i did already note something is wrong, while i was looking on my grub menu. because there was no longer such menu. only the blue colour and black environment, but with no text or something. only the familiar blue colour and black
1834[13:11:05] <debianfan2439> environment which we get if we dont install a desktop environment on the debian install
1835[13:11:35] <debianfan2439> and after i did come to my tty console, i was not able to login. because while i did type my password, after 3 seconds or less the tty session did restart and so im not able to type my password, because 3 seconds are not enough ( i have a long password)
1846[13:13:27] <Ede|Popede> if your system is already compromised it doesn't make much sense to continue with snake oil. if you think you have to, it would be the first step, not the last.
1847[13:13:30] <debianfan2439> wasamasa no i have no chat logs or something because i can not login in my system like i said
1890[13:22:33] <Ede|Popede> i'm even sceptical with things like mozilla.org vs. download.mozilla.net - 2 different TLDs, definitely not the same domain.
1891[13:22:37] <debianfan2439> he did give me a download link but i dont remember the websites name but i remember the software name it was called "XAntiMalwarePremium"
1892[13:22:39] <dka_> Hi, I got my computer UI frozen during stretch to buster upgrade
1895[13:22:52] <dka_> It was Updating database of manyak oages
1896[13:23:17] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede and then he said i should install it with root privileges so that i can experience the full effect of the software
1897[13:23:32] <dka_> it got unfrozen but all the fonts onn my scree nchanged
1898[13:23:37] <nicknamee> flashing the bios from HDD doesn't seem so straightforward under linux, and you also need the mobo model, this looks very targeted and it's someone you know; or it's simply user error
1899[13:24:04] <Ede|Popede> uh, cloudbased it seems. replaced-url
1900[13:24:26] <Ede|Popede> and the avatar of the TO really gives me an absolute safe feeling
1901[13:25:24] <wasamasa> lol
1902[13:25:29] <Ede|Popede> seems to be kaspersky, cracked versions in the wild. and who knows if it really is what it says.
1903[13:25:36] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1904[13:25:37] <wxb> Is this in firmware iso? broadcom-sta-dkms
1905[13:25:42] <wasamasa> I like the russian screenshots
1906[13:25:54] <debianfan2439> no this was not the same software he did send me, on my software it did have an logo with a black horse and bow and arrow in front of the black horse
1913[13:28:52] <Ede|Popede> there's enough software around claiming to clean up your (surprise!: windows) system and then installs a backdoor or drags in ads or what not
1914[13:29:06] <dka> I was in the middle of an upgrade but now I have 96% used of my harddrive
1915[13:29:14] <wxb> How can I find out if X package is in a Debian iso?
1916[13:29:18] <dka> E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.
1917[13:29:22] <dka> How can I do
1918[13:29:30] <dka> I dont know what I can remove to perform the upgrade
1919[13:29:55] <Ede|Popede> dka: you could remove some of the (older) packages. java, office and firefox may be good candidates (they're huge)
1920[13:30:19] <Ede|Popede> or check if you have something else you could safely remove from there, like temporary files.
1921[13:30:40] <dka> where are tmp files?
1922[13:30:55] <Ede|Popede> btw, since apt* runs with root's access rights, you should have some reserved space (check $size - ( $used + $free ))
1923[13:31:03] <Ede|Popede> /tmp usually
1924[13:31:39] <Ede|Popede> but then, /var is also for non-static content, including caches (as the one for packages)
1925[13:32:22] <dka> I have clean /tmp but still not enough space, I can't remove Firefox-esr because I hav e adependency with cinnamon, I dont have office
1926[13:32:35] <dka> java is installed in /opt a different harddrrive
1927[13:32:37] <dka> anything else?
1928[13:32:39] <Ede|Popede> and it also depends on your partitioning. it /var is on the same partition as /root and you have some big files there for some reasons... or maybe even /home. some users seem to put it also into /
1929[13:32:48] <Ede|Popede> ah right, java. i forgot that one
1930[13:32:51] <dka> My partition are / , /srv, /opt, /home
1931[13:32:57] <dka> I have 2.1GB avaialble on /
1932[13:33:51] <Ede|Popede> so /var is also on / ? what does `df /var/cache/apt/archives` say?
1967[13:47:35] <themill> There's no dkms stuff there at all; it might be that dkms isn't going to work in the installer environment; I'm guessing though
1986[13:53:14] <debianfan2439> the problem is that my old old other laptop have this debian stretch and i need this firmware for internet connection but i dont want to install the non-free firmware atheros
1989[13:54:00] <debianfan2439> in a security point of view is it better to install the nonfree firmware atheros or the opensource firmware
1990[13:54:12] <debianfan2439> but instabile)
1991[13:54:31] <debianfan2439> but how instabile would it be
1992[13:54:35] <greycat> Nobody knows.
1993[13:54:48] <greycat> It's firmware. It doesn't run on your computer. It runs inside your network interface.
1994[13:55:10] <greycat> It might make your network interface send secret messages to Ukraine. Or it might be totally fine.
1995[13:55:24] <debianfan2439> you mean the nonfree firmware yes?
1996[13:55:29] <greycat> !firmware
1997[13:55:29] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
1998[13:56:00] <debianfan2439> did you mean the not open firmware i hope or do you mean the open firmware ... the thing with the messages to ukraine
2007[13:58:15] <debianfan2439> but everybody could read the code and of course some backdoors can not be detected by the most reader maybe but obviously things like a email adress in code would put the alarm clock on
2024[14:02:11] <debianfan2439> i mean if someone would write a keylogger code in the firmware code, so then somewhere he must send his datas
2025[14:02:15] <debianfan2439> like to a email address
2026[14:02:22] <debianfan2439> then it would be obviously or not ?
2027[14:02:23] <karlpinc> wxb: It is possible to do the LUKS durint the install, and not really possible after without erasing everything and restoring.
2028[14:02:25] <wxb> Basically, debianfan2439 Good point.
2029[14:02:29] <greycat> A network interface doesn't have access to your keyboard.
2030[14:02:47] <greycat> A firmware program running inside a network interface can only control the network interface.
2031[14:02:48] <wxb> karlpinc, Even with the 'manual choice' in the install process.
2032[14:02:49] <karlpinc> wxb: Unless you have 2 disks and are using only one -- which basically means the same thing.
2033[14:03:16] <wxb> karlpinc, I watched the link you sent me replaced-url
2034[14:03:24] <karlpinc> wxb: You make a partition, when you do you say it is a LUKS encrypted partition. Then the installer continues.
2035[14:03:27] <greycat> And I have absolutely no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for in this bat_algo.c code.
2036[14:03:27] <wxb> and they don't do LUKS...
2037[14:03:31] <karlpinc> wxb: I didn't send it.
2038[14:03:38] <wxb> karlpinc, Oh. Oops.
2039[14:03:39] <greycat> What part of it did you find to be noteworthy?
2040[14:03:41] *** Quits: wxb (~uio3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2041[14:03:47] <dka_> I have upgraded to Buster and I cant move the mouse, I can right click
2043[14:04:10] <debianfan2439> greycat would it be possible if the firmware is compromised, that the attacker can access my other devices in the same network
2044[14:04:27] <greycat> You're a paranoid person. There is nothing I can say to you.
2046[14:04:31] <karlpinc> wxb: When you have a LUKS encrypted partition you then partition that partition. (Or, even better, use it as a LVM physical volume.)
2047[14:04:49] *** Joins: Qiz (~Qizzy@replaced-ip)
2048[14:04:49] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: you mentioned having another laptop
2049[14:05:00] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: why not use that to figure out the issues with the first one?
2050[14:05:01] <wxb> karlpinc, Ah. Hmmmm. So this a different process than that link.
2051[14:05:06] <karlpinc> wxb: (I swear I recall there is a choice for LUKS + LVM.)
2052[14:05:11] <debianfan2439> wasamasa i dont have a another lapttop it was a theoretical question
2054[14:05:29] <wxb> karlpinc, Could you take a look at the vid?
2055[14:05:33] <wasamasa> <debianfan2439> the problem is that my old old other laptop have this debian stretch and i need this firmware for internet connection but i dont want to install the non-free firmware atheros
2056[14:05:46] <greycat> why are you QUOTING a person I just ignored? :(
2057[14:05:47] <debianfan2439> wasamasa it is not my laptop it is from the school
2058[14:06:00] <wxb> karlpinc, Relevant time is at 3:55
2059[14:06:08] <wasamasa> greycat: whoops, my bad for assuming ops never ignore persons
2060[14:06:42] <debianfan2439> so i should not use it for personal , but we dont have to tell
2065[14:07:32] <karlpinc> wxb: "If you choose guided partitioning, you may have three options: to create partitions directly on the hard disk (classic method), or to create them using Logical Volume Management (LVM), or to create them using encrypted LVM[10]." replaced-url
2066[14:07:43] <debianfan2439> nicknamee no not because of the password, there is no password i need to type, but if i try to choose a option on the boot menu then nothing happens
2067[14:07:56] <debianfan2439> it is like my keyboard is not connected
2068[14:08:18] <thctlo> Hai, im attempting to crossbuild, armhf in and pbuilder i386 environment, but im keep hitting unmet dependencies in combination with python3. is there anything known of this?
2069[14:08:23] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: if the affected machine is from school, then you have bigger issues
2071[14:08:26] <karlpinc> wxb: I never bothered to configure sound on my box, and video broke on the stretch upgrade and I didn't bother to fix it. Maybe buster will make it work again.
2072[14:08:54] <debianfan2439> wasamasa not the affected laptop is from the school, this one whhich is compromised is my laptop the other old old one is from the school
2077[14:09:30] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay. I'll give this a whirl. Good luck to you too :)
2078[14:09:36] <debianfan2439> wasamasa no they dont know what linux is i think they cannot help me
2079[14:09:43] <debianfan2439> i thought that someone here can help me
2080[14:09:52] <wasamasa> given how unhelpful you are, nope
2081[14:10:16] <debianfan2439> how can i be helpful so that you can help me
2082[14:10:23] <debianfan2439> maybe i oversaw your message
2083[14:10:26] <karlpinc> wxb: Besides, videos suck for most instruction. You can't easily bookmark them and they tend to contain lots and lots of irrelevent fluff. (Like, you need _motion_ to tell people how to type into a box?)
2084[14:10:30] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: for example by following our suggestions, lol
2085[14:10:41] <debianfan2439> wasamasa sorry which suggestion you mean ?
2086[14:10:41] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: there have been plenty
2093[14:12:03] <debianfan2439> you mean the thing with reconnect the hdd ? i did already try it and nothing did happen. and the thing with looking the hdd from the other computer is not working because this old laptop from school doesnt allows it (hardware techincal point of view)
2101[14:14:10] <karlpinc> wxb: Anyhow, I'd do luks + lvm. LVM is "one more thing", but is really handy. You can create 2 logical volumes -- one for swap and one for everything else. And leave a little (lots of?) unused space in the physical volume so you have options when you come close to filling the filesystem or want a separate partition for something else.
2103[14:16:02] <humpled> i just leave a smallish spare partition
2104[14:16:14] <karlpinc> wxb: Or, since it's not your box, just allocate all the space and be done with it.
2105[14:16:38] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2106[14:16:54] <debianfan2439> wasamasa i will ask my neighbour if he can lend me his notebook but it will take 5 minutes i think and then another 5 minutes to connect my hdd to his mainboard okey
2107[14:17:03] <debianfan2439> are you still here then to help me ?
2108[14:17:13] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: the less intruding way would probably be to use an USB adapter to connect the HDD to the other laptop. if you don't have one, someone you know, may, maybe there's even a LUG around the place you live. or if you have some money left you could also buy one.
2116[14:18:45] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: you're on your own then really
2117[14:18:57] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: nobody will look through the hdd for you over the internet
2118[14:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
2119[14:19:14] <debianfan2439> wasamasa what do you mean ? you did suggest that i should look to the hdd from another computer
2120[14:19:14] <os__> karlpinc, thanks
2121[14:19:33] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: we're just suggesting you steps to rely less on other people fixing stuff for you
2122[14:20:04] <debianfan2439> i will ask him if he have a usb adapter hdd okey
2123[14:20:12] <debianfan2439> maybe but i dont think that he have one
2124[14:20:37] <wasamasa> hence why it's better to look for a lug, hackerspace or other linux-centric group
2125[14:20:53] <Ede|Popede> ah, ccc may be also around
2126[14:21:09] <wasamasa> maybe I'll get my hands on that elusive linux malware at 36c3 :>
2127[14:21:21] <ratrace> debianfan2439: weren't you here under another nickname the other day asking the same questions?
2128[14:21:33] <wasamasa> the other one had a raspberry pi
2129[14:21:58] <debianfan2439> ratrace no but i did ask the same on xmpp debian german chat channel because im german
2130[14:22:09] <debianfan2439> but there i dont get answers
2131[14:22:18] <debianfan2439> it seems all are robots or something like thtat
2132[14:22:27] <ratrace> That other nick expressed exactly the very same, rather specific, concern: "would it be possible if the firmware is compromised, that the attacker can access my other devices in the same network"
2133[14:22:37] <Ede|Popede> localized channels aren't really active i guess
2134[14:22:41] <ratrace> so I think that's just you under another nick
2135[14:22:43] *** Quits: debianfan2439 (d90838d5@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2149[14:25:49] *** Quits: dka_ (~dka@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2150[14:26:09] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: well, I can't speak for that person, but they tend to be filled with hobbyists interested in programming, hardware, networks and technology in general
2152[14:27:39] <debianfan2439> but the problem did come with debian and i think debian channel is the right place because it is debian related and i dont want to connect to a hackerspace with people that are hacking and maybe my computer too
2153[14:27:53] <annadane> *plonk*
2154[14:27:58] <ratrace> debianfan2439: what IS the problem though? I'm going through the backlog and I don't see you explain what the problem actually is
2155[14:28:03] <ratrace> annadane: +1
2156[14:28:07] <greycat> ratrace: they're also using the same web-interface IRC client...
2157[14:28:30] <ratrace> greycat: oh so I'm not crazy :)
2164[14:29:09] <annadane> as far as your compromised BIOS is concerned i'd be surprised if there isn't a way to restore stuff to default settings, otherwise, just reinstall debian
2165[14:29:15] <annadane> and stop downloading shit from untrusted websites
2166[14:29:15] <debianfan2439> on the grub menu there is nothing to choose i see only the desktop environment blue and black
2167[14:29:22] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: if it reassures you, I'm one of those who get paid to legally hack networks and so on
2168[14:29:50] <ratrace> wasamasa: pm me if you're black-hattin' on the side. :)
2169[14:30:00] <Ede|Popede> does the trick with the removed battery still apply?
2170[14:30:20] *** Quits: longbow (~chskab@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2171[14:30:26] <ratrace> debianfan2439: being (un)able to change bios has nothing to do with installing debian though. so what about being unable to change settings on your debian system?
2173[14:31:30] <debianfan2439> ratrace im unable to change settings on my debian system because if i want to login then after 3 seconds while im typing the password the session starts again
2174[14:31:33] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: if you see the grub menu you're already too late to choose the boot device
2175[14:31:37] <debianfan2439> it is like the time limit did change
2178[14:32:10] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: start to hack on the key (F12, Del, F2, whatever it may be) as soon as you see the screen flickering while the graphics is reset
2180[14:32:25] *** Quits: os__ (~Usama@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2181[14:32:27] <annadane> s/hack/tap
2182[14:32:40] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede but when im on the bios menu to choose the boot medium i see my usb stick live debian image but i can not choose it
2183[14:32:50] <debianfan2439> it is like my keyboard is not connected to the pc
2184[14:32:52] <ratrace> go hulk on the F12 key. "Hulk smash!"
2185[14:33:06] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: you even may have the choice: "go to bios" or "boot menu" with the latter also offering you the bios
2186[14:33:13] <Ede|Popede> annadane: grazie
2187[14:33:34] <annadane> just didn't want him to freak out about 'hack', you know. there's dangerous people on the interwebs
2188[14:33:40] <annadane> we could all be hacking him right now
2189[14:34:02] <Ede|Popede> ah right. was a false friend i guess
2190[14:34:57] <ratrace> debianfan2439: are you still talking about the bios? there's no time limit on logging in on debian -- and I'm assuming that'd be either the console or a login manager for the desktop
2191[14:34:59] <wxb> karlpinc, Sorry, I'm just a bit confused here. So I'm under 'manual config' in the install. Now I'm going to create swap and the else partitions. Where does the LUKS come in?
2201[14:36:48] <debianfan2439> ratrace yes i was still talking about bios. in debian there seems to be a time limit not for password typing on the tty console login
2202[14:36:56] <karlpinc> wxb: First thing that happens is LUKS. In there is an lvm pv. Then you setup a lvm volume group using that physical volume. Then you create 2 lvm lvs (logical volumes).
2226[14:40:13] <debianfan2439> ratrace of course you can set a time limit for password typing
2227[14:40:16] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: only if you have a typo in the tty it will pause for a while. can't say how long and how often it will allow you to try tho.
2228[14:40:17] <debianfan2439> or what did you talk about
2229[14:40:20] <karlpinc> And did you first choose the partition you've set aside for Debian?
2230[14:40:33] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay, just backing up to make sure I'm where I should be:
2231[14:40:48] <ratrace> debianfan2439: there is no such thing, it can't be because it'd be totally pointless as the password prompt is constantly there waiting for input until you log in
2232[14:40:53] <wxb> I'm at the 'Disk partition' step.
2238[14:41:30] <debianfan2439> but anyways, somehow the software or better, the attacker, did it, however
2239[14:41:38] <wxb> I see 'guided partition' 'RAID' 'LVM 'encrypted' and iSCSI (sorry it's in French, not sure of translation for some things...)
2240[14:41:40] <ratrace> debianfan2439: the only situation where there IS a time limit is sudo, more precisely between two sudo runs
2241[14:42:02] <ratrace> debianfan2439: there is no such thing, I don't know what you're talking about, the password prompt sits there indefinitely until you hit enter
2244[14:42:29] <jaakkos> What's the easiest way to get types for debconf question values? debconf-show is a bit unhelpful because it shows the values but in Ansible I would need to know the types.
2245[14:42:32] <karlpinc> wxb: Hard to say. I install rarely and poke it with a stick until it is like I like it. Do you know the name of the partition you want to use?
2246[14:42:32] <ratrace> debianfan2439: unless you mean ssh..... yes, ssh will timeout if you don't supply the password fast enough and that is configurable yes, but that's ssh
2247[14:42:34] <debianfan2439> ratrace /etc/login.defs LOGIN_TIMEOUT , thats what i meant
2248[14:42:39] <debianfan2439> that must have changed
2249[14:42:46] <debianfan2439> because normally thera re 60 seconds
2250[14:42:48] <wxb> n°5
2251[14:43:14] <debianfan2439> maybe i can change this if i am on my neighbours computer and connect the hdd
2252[14:43:55] <karlpinc> wxb: You need to get to where it gives you a list of your current partitions.
2253[14:43:58] <wxb> Like how can I get LVM LUKS on just that partition of ext4 that I made.
2254[14:44:03] <wxb> karlpinc, I'm there.
2255[14:44:18] <ratrace> debianfan2439: no desktop? I thought you were talking about the desktop
2256[14:44:32] <karlpinc> wxb: So choose the partition and see what type it has.
2257[14:44:40] <wxb> karlpinc, it is ext4
2258[14:44:48] <karlpinc> wxb: It needs to be LUKS.
2259[14:44:53] <debianfan2439> no its a laptop
2260[14:45:01] <wxb> karlpinc, How do I do that?
2261[14:45:05] <ratrace> debianfan2439: by "desktop" I mean the desktop environment lol
2262[14:45:09] <debianfan2439> but i did expand the hdd already
2263[14:45:12] <wxb> karlpinc, Do I select it?
2264[14:45:18] <debianfan2439> ratrace no desktop environment
2265[14:45:21] <ratrace> debianfan2439: is the console the only thing you have there?
2266[14:45:21] <karlpinc> wxb: Dunno. There's some option for choosing and changing. I'd presume you choose first, then change.
2281[14:46:41] <ratrace> debianfan2439: you installed it, surely you must know what you thought you were installing?
2282[14:46:48] *** neon is now known as Guest97348
2283[14:46:58] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay named, now I choose 'use as'...
2284[14:47:00] <debianfan2439> ratrace he said that its against dangerous super black trojan horses
2285[14:47:11] <debianfan2439> so i thought it were a anti malware program
2286[14:47:22] <karlpinc> wxb: Right.
2287[14:47:24] <wxb> karlpinc, 'physical volume for encyrption?'
2288[14:47:26] <debianfan2439> but obviously it seems that he masked it as anti malware program only
2289[14:47:33] <ratrace> debianfan2439: how did you install it?
2290[14:47:37] <karlpinc> wxb: Right.
2291[14:47:51] <debianfan2439> ratrace it was a shell script so i did with root rights ./program.sh
2292[14:48:03] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2293[14:48:07] <annadane> our intrepid hero supposedly installed debian from "some website" from someone he knows and "got infected with malware that changed the BIOS"
2294[14:48:08] <debianfan2439> and then, like i said, my computer did automatically restart and then all was changed
2295[14:48:13] <annadane> there, i've caught everyone up to speed
2296[14:48:19] <ratrace> debianfan2439: gesundheit. now, "format C:" and reinstall debian
2297[14:48:23] <wxb> karlpinc, Then I don't touch encyprtion = aes, siz = 256, alorirthm = xts-plain64
2298[14:48:46] <ratrace> annadane: possible, I suppose.
2299[14:48:50] <karlpinc> wxb: Don't mess with it unless you know what you're doing.
2301[14:49:00] <debianfan2439> ratrace if this is a hint to that i should use windows, no i dont want to use windows thank you
2302[14:49:14] <debianfan2439> im here because i want to use debia
2303[14:49:18] <ratrace> debianfan2439: it's not. "format C:" in quotes, I joked about format everything, nuke & pave, reinstall
2304[14:49:24] <wxb> karlpinc, So I'll add a passphrase. No point in wiping the data? I mean, I'm keeping the original Windows OS unencrypted, so no point.
2306[14:49:51] <karlpinc> You need a passphrase. Don't lose it. ...
2307[14:49:52] <toruvinn> if i have an external mouse and synaptic touchpad, is there a way to control their sensitivity separately? the touchpad seems a bit slow atm. and i dont want to just change the acceleration.
2308[14:50:06] <wxb> karlpinc, It's not letting me add a passphrase when I select that.
2309[14:50:20] <karlpinc> wxb: You can add up to 7 other passphrases later.
2310[14:50:32] <wxb> karlpinc, So, for now don't touch it?
2311[14:51:06] <wxb> karlpinc, Also, boot indicator, should I add one?
2312[14:51:36] <wxb> When will I add the passphrase? There is no prompt for it!
2313[14:51:41] <debianfan2439> ratrace maybe i have to do this if the other thing will not work (if i connect now the hdd to my neighbours computer and starting from live usb debian and then looking at the compromised debian system ( on the hdd) like it was suggest here, and then first i will look at the login.defs file if i can just change the timemout so that i can login at
2314[14:51:41] <debianfan2439> least) and hhope that i get help here what i can do else
2315[14:51:44] <karlpinc> wxb: Wiping the data can be good for security. If you write random data to the whole area then there's no telling what data is random and what data is the data you've written encrypted. But... completely filling a SSD can be ungood, depending on the SSD.
2316[14:52:06] <karlpinc> wxb: You'll probably add a passphrase when you setup the encrypted volume for use.
2317[14:52:41] <wxb> wxb, Re: wiping, the data is available in the Windows side
2318[14:52:43] <ratrace> debianfan2439: there's nothing you can do. if you ARE compromised, you'll need forensic methods to figure out what's infected and replace or clean it somehow. if you aren't and someone played a joke on you, there's no way to be 100% sure that's what happened.
2343[14:55:01] <debianfan2439> ratrace okay so only plain text files i have many from then
2344[14:55:07] <ratrace> any format that's not plain text, or IS but contains code that some interpreter might run (like word files even if in XML format)
2345[14:55:29] <ratrace> you can't trust that, I mean. just pure text with no control codes? sure, have at it.
2346[14:55:34] <karlpinc> ratrace: You're right, but there's a _really_ big difference between the executable catagory and the rest of your list.
2360[14:57:42] <karlpinc> wxb: That's ok. You need to go back to your list of partitions. Now you will have a new one for your encrypted partition and you need to pick that and work with it.
2361[14:58:15] <ratrace> wrksx: here's a quick, recent, linux-related example: replaced-url
2362[14:58:23] <wxb> karlpinc, But it won't even let me write the changes.
2363[14:58:23] <karlpinc> ratrace: Sure. Even html files (probably) the glory days of MS Windows.
2364[14:58:30] <wrksx> thx ratrace
2365[14:58:56] <ratrace> wrksx: for images, there was this huge GNOME thumbnailer bug that caused quite some mess and made GNOME disable it by default, it also includd the ability to run windows malware (sic!) via wine
2366[14:59:27] <ratrace> karlpinc: yes if they contain javascripts and whatever is opening that HTML goes "Oh, look! Javascripts! Imma go and feed it into this interpreter here...."
2367[14:59:28] <karlpinc> wxb: Like I say, I poke it with a stick until it works. Are you sure that the luks stuff is not setup?
2368[15:00:02] <wxb> karlpinc, Yeah, I just selected the changes to make and now it won't apply them.
2369[15:00:16] <karlpinc> wxb: What happens when you go to the list of partitions?
2370[15:00:35] <karlpinc> wxb: Do you have a luks container?
2371[15:00:48] <wxb> karlpinc, Nothing. It just shows everything including the luks one, but I can't apply changes.
2372[15:01:05] <ratrace> karlpinc: problem with non-executable file infection is exploiting buffer overflows and friends, which cause code execution within the privilege of the user opening the file. you can literally inject cpu opcodes into strings for such vulnerabilities.
2373[15:01:06] *** Quits: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2374[15:01:09] <karlpinc> wxb: What happens when you choose the luks one?
2377[15:01:44] <wxb> karlpinc, Then I go back to everything I just did: naming etc
2378[15:01:45] <ratrace> karlpinc: bestest recent example is this huge remote vuln for PHP, you could inject exec code through malformed URL, if the server is running nginx+fpm with PATH_INFO set up in a certain (most common!) way
2379[15:02:14] <ratrace> (thankfully that's not default on debian, but still many PHP apps do that...)
2380[15:02:19] <karlpinc> ratrace: Yes. But all that means is that "software has vulnerabilties". This is not a reason to be afraid of, say, image files. Just a reason to be cautious.
2381[15:02:48] <debianfan2439> i did connect my hdd to a another computer now. im on a debian live system and try to access my compromised hdd from the debian live system. the hdd is encrypted and i need to enter the passphrase
2382[15:02:58] <ratrace> karlpinc: sure sure, but the context here is that debianfan2439 said they executed this trojan as root. so, all bets are off as it really could be _anything_ and exploiting any of the zero days in any shape or form.
2383[15:02:59] <debianfan2439> but i did not encrypt my hdd, i did never
2385[15:03:21] <debianfan2439> so i can not think of the reason why it is now encrypted
2386[15:03:35] <wrksx> it self encrypted overnight (probably)
2387[15:03:36] <ratrace> karlpinc: that's what in infosec we say that the "local attacker" is as good as remote attacker, if there's physical access, and phishing someone to in sudo program.sh your exec is as close as you get to that :)
2389[15:04:04] <debianfan2439> wrksx this or the malicious software i did install
2390[15:04:04] <karlpinc> ratrace: Yes. And it does make sense to point that out. But at some point, well, you want your word processing document and the computer's really no good without it. If you can't use your data why have a computer? That's my point.
2391[15:04:22] <wrksx> debianfan2439: looks like you can think of a reason
2393[15:04:47] <ratrace> karlpinc: I agree, I was just saying that they can't trust their non-plain-text files. emphasis on "trust".
2394[15:05:13] <debianfan2439> so i have to erase my hdd and install debian again ... i think
2395[15:05:22] <wxb> Is there a guide for this? I know I'm a noob, but I feel like this shouldn't be so difficult... thanks for all your help karlpinc
2396[15:05:25] <karlpinc> wxb: Once you choose the LUKS one you can do 2 things: make it an LVM volume or make a partition table and put actual partitons on it. You don't want just "etc" on it. There's a choice for LVM.
2397[15:05:29] <ratrace> once the infection happens and it's known to have happened, everyone will tell you just to reinstall as you can never be sure there's nothing hiding somewhre in some innocent looking file
2398[15:05:52] <ratrace> debianfan2439: that'd be the best course of action, after you've mounted it on a machine and copied off your text files
2404[15:06:33] *** Quits: starch (~starch@replaced-ip) (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 27.0.50)
2405[15:06:47] <debianfan2439> can i do just0 dd of=/dev/sda if=/dev/zero from my live system to erase the encrypted hdd or are there more recommend ways ?
2406[15:07:10] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: if it *is* sda, then YES YOU CAN
2407[15:07:24] <karlpinc> wxb: And yes. I find it a struggle each time I do it. That's why the "guided" has a single menu item for LUKS + LVM. But my guess is that this won't work for you because you're keeping MS Windows, so you need to fuss with the details.
2408[15:07:30] <ratrace> debianfan2439: sure that's one way. I'd also add a larger block size, eg bs=1M
2410[15:07:42] <ratrace> debianfan2439: status=progress to see the progress bar
2411[15:08:04] <debianfan2439> can i do just0 dd of=/dev/sda if=/dev/zero from my live system to erase the encrypted hdd or are there more recommend ways ?
2412[15:08:05] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: No real reason to wipe the disk. You could just re-install.
2413[15:08:12] <debianfan2439> sorry
2414[15:08:35] <debianfan2439> karlpinc what do you mean with re installl?
2415[15:08:48] <wrksx> omg
2416[15:08:52] <wxb> karlpinc, I find it reassuring that I'm not the only one who struggles here!
2418[15:08:57] <debianfan2439> ratrace but i do not have to wait the full progress or ? can i not just abort after 2 minutes ?
2419[15:09:01] <bolt> debianfan2439: just use the disk for whatever you want. there's no point erasing your encrypted data before doing so
2420[15:09:03] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: There'd be potentially malicious stuff in the bits on the drive, but the OS would not use them for anything but space to overwrite.
2421[15:09:10] <ratrace> personally, I'd satisfy my OCD and paranoia and I'd wipe that drive out :)
2422[15:09:16] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay. Well, I found the option to encrypt that part.
2423[15:09:19] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: Boot up the install media and go through the installation process.
2424[15:09:34] <wxb> It's writing over with randomness. Then I'll do LVM I guess.
2425[15:09:40] <debianfan2439> karlpinc so this is the way to install debian, and what did you mean with reinstall debian ?
2447[15:12:20] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: should be if this is an offichial repo (and it looks like one)
2448[15:12:23] <debianfan2439> or should i check all
2449[15:12:43] <Ede|Popede> sha512 only should be fine
2450[15:12:44] <wxb> debianfan2439, I think one is enough, but not sure....
2451[15:12:50] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: It is probably best to use the unoffical installer that has non-free firmware built-in. That way your hardware is more likely to "just work" without fussing. I had the bot private message you with the url.
2452[15:13:27] <debianfan2439> karlpinc but i dont want non-free firmware, i did use the normal image and my system worked fine, ffrom a hardware perspective
2453[15:13:32] <debianfan2439> i didnt need nonfree firmware
2454[15:13:43] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: If you want to be really paranoid, get the sha512 data from a different debian mirror. That way both would have to be compromised (or your network connection completely pwoned.)
2455[15:14:03] <annadane> 512?! fancy fancy
2456[15:14:18] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: Understood. If you don't need it it won't install. It's a safey net.
2458[15:14:25] <debianfan2439> karlpinc and if i check the sha512 data, does this mean that the image is 100% not compromised? or do i have to check the signaturre also
2460[15:15:22] *** Joins: lorenzo (~lorenzo@replaced-ip)
2461[15:15:24] <ratrace> there's also the way of verifying the GPG signature of the checksums file :) (for the extra paranoid) you'd need a working, known not to be compromised, debian installation first :)
2463[15:15:48] <wxb> ratrace, Wooww life sound difficult for such a person!
2464[15:15:49] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: You check your downloaded installer against the sha512 you also download. If they match then they are either both good or both compromised.
2465[15:15:52] <debianfan2439> ratrace cant i do it from a debian live sytem?
2466[15:16:26] <wxb> karlpinc, Both compromised!! Scary world out there. I didn't know that. Here I've naively check sums for years.
2467[15:16:35] <ratrace> debianfan2439: yes if the debian gpg keys are installed, and I think they are if that's debian
2468[15:16:36] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: Sure you can. (But how do you know that your debian live is not compromised? ;-)
2472[15:17:29] <Mathisen> wxb, no one ever said that
2473[15:17:46] <debianfan2439> its debian live standard buster so i hope the gpg keys are installed otherwhise wouldnt they install it if i install debian keyring?
2474[15:17:47] <ratrace> wouldn't surprise me if they did :) hashtag oh-windows :)
2475[15:17:50] <debianfan2439> or is this a other thing
2476[15:18:17] <debianfan2439> i mean the packet "debian-keyring"
2478[15:18:23] <karlpinc> wxb: It all depends on what got compromised. If the debian infrastructure somehow got compromised then all the mirrors could contain bad data. This is why phsycial meetup is required to become a debian developer, who is able to then work on the infrastructure.
2480[15:18:41] <wxb> Mathisen, Yes, I was asking about the sum for the Aomei thing and was told that it was probs fine because there is https. Seems kinda sketchy to me.
2481[15:19:44] <Mathisen> and you was told to go to the software in questions site so see if they posted hashes
2482[15:19:54] <greycat> Physical meet-up is required for exchanging crypto signature keys. So person A can say "I trust that this key was given to me by person B", and sign it.
2483[15:19:55] <karlpinc> wxb: Depends on the threat model. It's a lot easier to give some admin a candy bar for their password than to break https.
2489[15:22:43] <debianfan2439> the debian image is downloading very slow (400KB/s) is this normal?
2490[15:22:51] <debianfan2439> or maybe someone is compromising my image at the moment ??
2491[15:22:59] <wxb> Mathisen, "go to the website and find out.. or contact them" if one has to contact someone just for the sums on their software there is probs a security oversight.
2501[15:24:02] <debianfan2439> wasamasa this is another neighbour ...
2502[15:24:03] <debianfan2439> not the same
2503[15:24:21] <greycat> wrksx: a few of us suspect that debianfan2439 is also cinesc who is also waka-something, who has been pestering this channel with "how do I security" for a week
2504[15:24:31] <debianfan2439> god i would never ask this one neighbour about hardware.. who knows what he did with this hardware
2505[15:24:40] <ratrace> wrksx: yup what greycat said
2506[15:24:43] <wrksx> greycat: haha
2507[15:24:47] <wasamasa> greycat: now ##security as well, with a greater focus on hardware vulnerabilities
2508[15:24:56] <wasamasa> greycat: quite the obsession with spectre and meltdown
2509[15:25:04] *** Quits: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2514[15:25:55] <wasamasa> paranoia is a helluvadrug
2515[15:26:04] <ratrace> unfortunate reality, and let's not forget there's a whole MINIX stashed away into that IME chip!
2516[15:26:08] <debianfan2439> the debian iso is downloaded and the both hashes are the same, but it did think what if the program with which i check the checksums hashes are not working properly ?
2517[15:26:18] <debianfan2439> how can i be sure that the program is working fine
2519[15:26:36] <debianfan2439> is there a program for?
2520[15:26:44] <wasamasa> you can't
2521[15:26:46] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: Study up on the math and read the source code and check it.
2522[15:26:49] <wasamasa> that's the great part of paranoia
2523[15:27:03] <ratrace> +1
2524[15:27:23] <wasamasa> I prefer some applied mathematics to figure out how likely it is that someone would deliberately mess with the copy of sha512sum on a debian image
2525[15:27:29] <debianfan2439> i think i have to trust the debian worker that they did a good job in programming the program
2526[15:27:42] <debianfan2439> i did read that debian is one of the most stabile distros so i hope its fine
2548[15:30:17] <ratrace> good luck with libressl though :)
2549[15:30:17] <annadane> i'm mostly joking, i'm sure openssl got cleaned up a lot since heartbleed
2550[15:30:19] <debianfan2439> wrksx this is a good question i did have the thought already but i dont want to ring on is door to see if he is there at the moment because he have no car so i can not be sure
2552[15:30:38] <wasamasa> considering how often the GNU developers like breaking their software, I wouldn't be surprised
2553[15:30:41] *** apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
2554[15:30:43] <debianfan2439> maybe he have a program that does this process autoomatically
2555[15:30:45] <wrksx> maybe checksum checksum just in case
2556[15:30:46] <wasamasa> fortunately there's plenty alternative implementations of sha512
2557[15:30:56] <ratrace> BY TEH WAY... I was talking about the OpenSSL bug specific to Debian, when the maintainer thought they were optimizing the code and reduced OpenSSH's key space to merely 65k
2558[15:30:57] <wasamasa> you can just compare their outputs to satisfy that paranoia of yours
2559[15:31:07] <greycat> ratrace: yes, I understood it
2560[15:31:11] <ratrace> oh, okay :)
2561[15:31:20] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay. Done the LUKS part of it. Now I do LVM?
2562[15:31:22] <wasamasa> ratrace: such are security bugs, subtle in their nature
2563[15:31:44] <karlpinc> wxb: Now you should have a new LVM section on the partition page. You choose it an put LVM on.
2564[15:32:05] <ratrace> so if happy accidents happen that easily.... I can only wonder what deliberate mistakes can do
2565[15:32:12] <RoyK> ratrace: which bug was this?
2567[15:32:25] <debianfan2439> wasamasa i did change all hashes from md5 to sha512 and all were fine i did use multiple mirrors and not only one and always over https.. i will write the md5 hash on a paper and then later i will check the hash from the new system too so i hope i get a little more security
2582[15:34:02] <annadane> it's funny because with the whole openssl thing having 6 trillion lines of code there *actually* is reason for paranoia :P
2583[15:34:11] <ratrace> annadane: heh yeah
2584[15:34:33] <humpled> but paranoia is not reason
2585[15:34:36] <RoyK> ratrace: oh - only 11 years old…
2586[15:34:40] <greycat> Yeah, I absolutely understand why the OpenBSD folks started the LibreSSL rewrite.
2587[15:34:41] <annadane> paranoids are excessively paranoid... until they're not
2588[15:34:59] <wrksx> debianfan2439: it doesn't matter if he's home or not
2589[15:35:00] <ratrace> RoyK: doesn't matter, it's a good example how good will and a bit of tinkering can cause huge mess
2590[15:35:16] <ratrace> RoyK: problem being code review, everywhere, not just in this example
2591[15:35:17] <karlpinc> wxb: You'll need to do _something_ to tell it that the LUKS space is to be used for LVM. I don't know if you choose the LUKS section to do this or if you've done that or if the lvm section does that.
2592[15:35:17] <wxb> karlpinc, Do I great a volume groupe??
2593[15:35:18] <annadane> i'll still use linux but mad respect for the openbsd's of this world
2594[15:35:29] <karlpinc> wxb: Looks like you made progress.
2595[15:35:30] <debianfan2439> wrksx you have right ... i will turn of the wifi for this purpose and use lan
2606[15:37:41] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay, so now I apply that change? It's saying that there is 0 free pv; 1 used pv; 1vg, 0 vl
2607[15:38:02] <karlpinc> wxb: (The point of the vg is to be able to move vgs between pvs, so as to be able to swap out or move to different physical disks.)
2684[15:51:44] <ratrace> I did it once, few years ago, took me a while to pin point exact option needed in /etc/defaults/grub. But I don't bother these days, I use separate /boot
2685[15:51:48] <karlpinc> wxb: You'd have to add another regular partition, "next to" the LUKS partition, to have an unencrypted /boot.
2686[15:52:01] <karlpinc> ratrace: What do you recommend?
2687[15:52:14] <wxb> So I have the partition table done. With swap and else LUKsed and so now I continue the install?
2688[15:52:33] <tsglove> I am trying to use inotifywait. My short script is at this link. When I modify a file inside the directory, inotifywait does "raise the flag" that it was modified. Yet the action I placed there never happens. Any idea what could be going on? script --> replaced-url
2689[15:52:56] <ratrace> karlpinc: I use LUKS just to protect data at rest, so I don't care about encrypting /boot. So it's really what the user wants. I'd recommend either way.
2690[15:53:15] <debianfan2439> why there is no firewall during the debian installation progress with the debian netinst iso image?
2691[15:53:40] <karlpinc> wxb: So to have an unencrypted /boot you'd have to start over and remove the LUKS partition and make 2 instead. A teeny one for boot and another for LUKS. And then redo all the LUKS stuff etc. At this point I'd say try to make it work as-is. You can always reinstall if nobody here can figure it out.
2692[15:53:42] <ratrace> karlpinc: thing is I did encrypted /boot once, and there was no support in the installer for it, I had to manually fix grub config. Dunno if that's the case today, or it JustWorks(tm)
2695[15:54:15] <ratrace> debianfan2439: what would the firewall change?
2696[15:54:21] <jhutchins_wk> karlpinc: Because on-system firewalls are pointless.
2697[15:54:44] <annadane> i don't think debian even has a firewall set up by default at all
2698[15:54:44] <karlpinc> wxb: My recommendation is to do a minimal install. No "desktop" task to install a gui etc. Once you get it to boot run "tasksel" as root and install your desktop of choice.
2719[15:57:04] <debianfan2439> annadane what is this video about, is this about building a firewall during the installation progress ?
2720[15:57:12] <annadane> no, it's just a stupid anime clip
2721[15:57:13] <ratrace> wxb: if you wanna find out, go ahead and before you finally reboot, see if you can peek into the mounted root's /etc/default/grub and check if it contains GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y . Unless I'm mistaken that's the only thing needed to trigger grub to config itself for encrypted /boot. Back when I was trying that, this one-liner was hard to figure out :)
2722[15:57:17] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: configuring a firewall requires a certain level of competency
2723[15:57:32] <debianfan2439> wasamasa i want to only allow connections to the debian mirror
2724[15:57:37] <debianfan2439> can you help me with that
2725[15:57:45] *** Quits: rany (~rany@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2726[15:57:47] <wasamasa> nope
2727[15:57:52] <ratrace> debianfan2439: you don't need a firewall during installation. what do you think that firewall would protect?
2728[15:58:10] <ratrace> debianfan2439: there aren't any services running thus no open ports, so what would you wall off?
2729[15:58:24] <wasamasa> malicious programs trying to talk with shady hackers via smtp
2730[15:58:30] <karlpinc> wxb: You can tell the installer to give you a shell -- or just use a vt -- to check like ratrace recommends. (I'd write down what he wrote, to have for later. That'd be the key to fixing a boot problem.)
2731[15:58:35] <wasamasa> isn't that what we were building up to?
2736[16:00:29] <ratrace> but again, what would the firewall on the installer ISO, wall off?
2737[16:00:56] <debianfan2439> ratrace i want that my debian installation becomes not compromised when im connecting to the internet to install software during the installation i mean what if the system that i have during the installation is not up to date and then i connect to the internet with a not up to date system
2739[16:01:11] <ratrace> debianfan2439: a firewall won't help you with that, bud
2740[16:01:13] <debianfan2439> would this not maximize the possibility of compromising
2741[16:01:26] <debianfan2439> minimize
2742[16:01:28] *** Quits: tomha (~tomha@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2743[16:01:31] <karlpinc> wasamasa: Agreed. I'm wondering now whether to start allowing outbound QUIC etc. I suppose no reason why not...
2744[16:01:39] <annadane> no. just install the damn thing.
2745[16:01:40] <ratrace> no. a "firewall" is just a packet filter, and it makes sense only to protect open ports. if no ports are open, what's the use of the firewall?
2746[16:01:48] <wasamasa> if your system is not up to date and connecting to the internet kills it, you're fucked anyway
2747[16:01:51] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: iptables -A -d <IP address of mirror> -j ACCEPT
2751[16:02:05] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: then `iptables -A OUTPUT -j DROP`
2752[16:02:07] <annadane> which you can't do *during the install*...
2753[16:02:08] <wasamasa> I remember some distro-specific bugs in package managers
2754[16:02:20] <ratrace> debianfan2439: also, here's something to inflame your paranoia further. even if you had DENY ALL packet filter in place, a kernel vuln in tcp stack could _still_ open you op for an RCE
2755[16:02:20] <wasamasa> they require of course that you connect to a compromised package archive
2756[16:03:22] <ratrace> ectospasm: and what about the INPUT chain?
2757[16:03:23] <debianfan2439> ratrace and if i would have another computer with openbsd which is knowed to work good as firewall and then let debian connect through the openbsd firewall to the internet
2758[16:03:25] <ectospasm> Not sure that's the wisest idea, but that's one way to do it.
2759[16:03:29] <debianfan2439> then it would be not a problem or
2760[16:03:36] <debianfan2439> just if openbsd would also have bugs
2761[16:03:41] <ratrace> debianfan2439: it wouldn't change anything
2762[16:03:44] <wasamasa> openbsd still requires competency to be used correctly
2763[16:04:04] <wasamasa> out of the box it's not terribly useful either
2764[16:04:06] <debianfan2439> maybe you are right i can not do this anyways
2765[16:04:15] <ratrace> firewalls don't prevent malware from getting through, they only filter packets and are useful to block off unused ports in case a service, malicious or otherwise, wants to listen on a port
2766[16:04:18] <wasamasa> some people go as far as telling me that it's actively user-hostile in the name of security
2767[16:04:21] <debianfan2439> i will just install normally and hope nobody does compromise me at this time
2768[16:04:34] <wasamasa> there is no replacement for a well working brain.exe
2769[16:04:38] <wxb> FYI I mentioned some things about Windows's absence of SUMS. I just got muted in their chanel for that! True story.
2771[16:04:52] <ratrace> that's why a "firewall" is a stupid name. it's a packet filter. now, there's a WAF, "Application FireWall" that's something completely different and more useful in blocking malware....
2772[16:04:53] <ectospasm> ratrace: I assume the default would be `iptables -A INPUT -m state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT`, but IIRC that should already be in there by default.
2773[16:05:06] <ratrace> ectospasm: there is no default with iptables
2774[16:05:15] <wasamasa> especially not in the form of some malware protection promising you to solve all of your problems
2776[16:06:01] *** Quits: xyz_ (~xyz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2777[16:06:39] <ellyjones> hello debian folks! I am a chromium developer and I am curious if there is something preventing debian upgrading chromium past 76 (replaced-url
2778[16:07:00] <karlpinc> wxb: People will ignore you if your antagonistic. And especially if antagonastic about something you don't know much about. E.g. .debs are signed so sums are unnecessary.
2779[16:07:21] <annadane> are they? i tend to validate my images
2780[16:07:23] <debianfan2439> is it useful to use full disk encryption for my new debian syste
2787[16:08:01] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: i see lots of questions recently. write them down, or whatever comes to your mind. research it later. and for things like the usb firmware you could read, say, the heiseticker (at least scroll through their security department), also there are a lot of blogs from competent people. your situation regarding this won't change as long as you don't have at least a basic understandment what's going on.
2788[16:08:03] <jelly> ellyjones: this is primarily an end-user focused channel. If you want to ask for showstoppers and maybe, dunno, offer help, try #debian-devel on irc.oftc.net (= irc.debian.org)
2789[16:08:04] <debianfan2439> ectospasm i want to use the system for personall
2793[16:09:15] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: that is a very broad use case. full disk encryption(FDE) can be a hassle, and more work than its worth if the value of the system you're protecting isn't that high.
2794[16:09:30] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede i can not follow what you mean
2795[16:09:34] <wasamasa> it's useful as theft protection
2805[16:11:13] <ectospasm> Maybe it prompts you for the method, that's probably likely.
2806[16:11:20] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: you had a lot of questions and concerns regarding security. too much to answer it on irc, you definitely have to read on it later if you want useful answers which make sense. so even if you get a short answer NOW, do write it down and get informed on the web when you got your system running.
2807[16:11:22] <debianfan2439> does fde mean also grub encryption
2810[16:11:48] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede i will note the answers
2811[16:11:51] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: it can, depending on how you set it up.
2812[16:11:57] <ratrace> ectospasm: there's only one method supported, LUKS. yeah, it asks for the passphrase :)
2813[16:12:00] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede i mean i will copy the history
2814[16:12:17] <debianfan2439> ectospasm is it possible to encrypt grup during the installation?
2815[16:12:18] <ectospasm> ratrace: so you can't supply a key file through the installer? Bummer.
2816[16:12:42] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay. So don't need the DE nor XFCE, jus the utils?
2817[16:12:46] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: I'm not familiar enough with Buster installation to be able to answer this question accurately.
2818[16:12:49] <ratrace> ectospasm: yeah I don't think you can
2819[16:13:02] <jhutchins_wk> debianfan2439: What makes you think a system you're installing has a public IP exposed to the internet and exploitable services running during install?
2820[16:13:04] <debianfan2439> ectospasm is there a different in buster and stretch installtion ?
2821[16:13:05] <karlpinc> The point is, we are not here to provide compsci/security education but to help with specific problems. Plugging up the channel with generic information prevents other from getting the help they need.
2825[16:13:23] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: the boot partition containing grub remains unencrypted as it needs to be read by your computer to boot
2826[16:13:31] <debianfan2439> jhutchins it is just because i have a low knowledge and i didnt know it better
2827[16:13:37] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: again, I haven't used the Debian installer in quite a while. The last time I installed Debian through the installer was in Jessie (or earlier).
2828[16:13:38] <wasamasa> debianfan2439: there are rather involved ways around this
2829[16:13:44] <karlpinc> wxb: Right. Maybe not even the utils, although that's up to you. Depends on what the system is for.
2838[16:14:32] <annadane> i do understand the questions. but do understand that nothing is ever truly secure, most people are fine with general best practices and common sense, unless you have 3 letter agencies after you
2840[16:14:52] <annadane> 'firewall' and 'antivirus' as necessity is really a windows thing
2841[16:14:57] <ectospasm> debianfan2439: I have had a system (I believe it was Arch) with FDE (including /boot partition), but I'm not sure that's possible now with the EFI partition having to be vfat. YMMV.
2842[16:15:03] <karlpinc> wxb: (Remember "tasksel" is the program to use to install huge hunks of debian. It's what the installer uses when it asks you the questions about what to install.)
2845[16:17:33] <debianfan2439> what is the first thing i should do on a fresh new installted debian system
2846[16:17:46] <colo-work> Smile upon it.
2847[16:18:02] <karlpinc> wxb: Looking at the tasksel choices, if you have a laptop you may as well install the laptop stuff. I don't know what they do but laptops can be picky and maybe some of that stuff is really really useful.
2849[16:18:27] <debianfan2439> colo-work i mean in a security sense
2850[16:18:29] <karlpinc> debianfan2439: Everyone has s different list.
2851[16:19:07] <annadane> just avoid root when it's not necessary, don't do things you don't understand, avoid breaking debian (wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian)
2852[16:19:44] <annadane> subscribe to debian-announce@lists.debian.org and debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org, i personally use package-update-indicator to physically tell me about updates
2853[16:20:15] <annadane> sacrifice a virgin, and do a ritual dance
2854[16:20:34] <debianfan2439> i did not know about the program i think it was not there in stretch version
2855[16:20:50] <debianfan2439> i will install it on my system after i did install the updates
2862[16:21:28] *** Quits: Kirsty (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2863[16:21:32] <debianfan2439> works this also on tty console without desktop environment
2864[16:22:17] <wxb> I tied to go back in the menu to the install step. And now it's asking me to insert the media Debian. But it's still plugged in!
2865[16:22:53] <crivrc> annadane: that's a great page in the debian wiki, thanks!
2866[16:23:11] <annadane> if you know absolutely nothing about debian read that first
2867[16:23:18] <annadane> the rest of it is just adapting over time
2868[16:23:45] <karlpinc> wxb: How far did it get? Worse case, reboot and you can skip over the menu items if you're in "expert" mode and just continue from where you left off.
2901[16:32:35] <annadane> i get security emails all the time and i have no idea if i have those packages installed so i tend to just apt update && apt upgrade anyway, you can't dpkg -l this stuff because you might have libraries installed which are part of the update
2903[16:32:47] <karlpinc> wxb: (Better to use just the netinstall image. And.... I guess the cd images are designed to be put on CD.) Humm....
2904[16:32:58] <jhutchins_wk> There is (or was) an image that was intended to boot the system and run the installer from a CD, for systems that would not boot from a CD. Asking for the CD is also a symptom we frequently see when people use unetbootin to create the boot media.
2905[16:33:01] <Ede|Popede> ratrace: nice one, let me see if i can adapt my automatism ;)
2921[16:35:00] *** Quits: dk (~dk@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2922[16:35:15] <wxb> vt? I cant access those...
2923[16:35:20] <karlpinc> !vt
2924[16:35:20] <dpkg> i heard vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>.
2925[16:35:23] <annadane> most people can probably check for updates like once a week anyway, you're unlikely to get pwned in that time
2929[16:35:45] <wasamasa> but what if the most dedicated hacker of all time decides to screw you over
2930[16:35:55] *** beaver is now known as Guest54355
2931[16:36:05] <karlpinc> wxb: Alt+F2 (etc) does not do anything? (or CTL+Alt+F2, etc.?)
2932[16:36:11] <annadane> also CVEs now are at the point of "this could maybe perhaps in theory just a hunch allow an attacker to run malicious code over ssh with port 9 quadrillion open with this specific configuation only when the moon is full"
2933[16:36:12] <greycat> what if you have an extremely exaggerated opinion of your importance
2935[16:36:49] <debianfan2439> oh okey annadane is it okey if i use a german mirror to update my system in sources.list or only deb.debian.org is the offical ?
2936[16:37:07] <annadane> hacking people is *hard*. a properly secured system (and debian has *good* defaults anyway) isn't likely to be cracked trivially
2958[16:39:53] <debianfan2439> you mean like edward norton
2959[16:40:15] <debianfan2439> im not a whistleblowser
2960[16:40:17] <Ede|Popede> or Bild Leserreporter :P
2961[16:40:18] <karlpinc> wxb: Allright. You can hard-reboot. I'm not sure just how far you've gotten but the problem is that your installed (I think) /etc/apt/sources.list say that you're getting packages off of a cd.
2967[16:41:17] <karlpinc> wxb: You can try to fix that by booting and going into rescue mode and then re-running the menu item after the "install stuff" step. Or...
2968[16:41:17] <millaus564578568> Ciao a tutti :))
2971[16:41:32] <annadane> which you can set up if you don't want to do it manually
2972[16:41:54] <karlpinc> wxb: You can download the netinstall image and boot from that and just re-install the base system. Your partitions/LUKS/etc will all still be there.
2973[16:41:59] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: the server could be down for some reason. that's why having a generic entry which brings you to a mirror which is fine at that moment isn't a bad idea.
2974[16:42:15] <annadane> (the name you're looking for is 'snowden', not norton)
2975[16:42:20] *** Quits: schwatvogel (a5e14916@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2976[16:42:24] <karlpinc> !tell wxb about firmware images
2977[16:42:24] <millaus564578568> i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission fro the group replaced-url
2979[16:42:32] <millaus564578568> i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission fro the group replaced-url
2980[16:42:51] <millaus564578568> i created a webapp that create directory.... how can i set that directory will get write permission for the group replaced-url
2981[16:43:02] <karlpinc> wxb: Using the netinstall image will be simpler. (And the download is rather small.)
2982[16:43:04] <debianfan2439> annadane oh right norton is the actor and snowden is the right name
2983[16:43:06] <annadane> millaus564578568, stop.
2984[16:43:10] <annadane> we heard you the first time
2987[16:44:27] <karlpinc> millaus564578568: You want to read-up on chmod and chgrp (or chown). See the debian reference manual at debian.org. It has a section on permissions etc.
2988[16:45:05] <karlpinc> millaus564578568: gnu.org also has good material in it's on-line "info" pages.
2990[16:45:38] <wxb> karlpinc, So I can't pick up where it failed??
2991[16:46:22] <karlpinc> wxb: I suspect you're pretty much installed and all that's left is setting up boot. But re-installing the minimal system from a netinstall images is quick and will fix your sources.list problem. That will pick up from where it failed.
2992[16:46:35] *** Quits: lorenzo (~lorenzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: lorenzo)
2993[16:46:55] <wxb> karlpinc, I'll have to do all that paritioning again?
2994[16:47:07] <karlpinc> wxb: You can try to manually fix sources.list by booting into rescue mode and using an editor. Then "apt update". But that involves more than button pushing.
2995[16:47:12] <wxb> karlpinc, And should I do the /boot thing different?
2996[16:47:19] <karlpinc> wxb: No. Your partitioning and LUKS stuff is done.
2997[16:47:21] <annadane> debianfan2439, you know this thing that just happened where you downloaded a compromised image and everything went bad? remember that when you run debian. don't randomly install stuff from the internet. don't sudo bash | curl or whatever 'program developers' tell you to do
2998[16:47:50] <karlpinc> wxb: You'd only do the /boot partition if you really wanted to start over and redo. I'd leave it.
2999[16:47:53] <annadane> that probably isn't right, i forget the syntax of the thing you're not meant to do
3003[16:48:31] <debianfan2439> annadane it was not a image it was XAntiMalwareHorses against dangerous black super trojan horses ... but he did hose me obviously
3004[16:48:51] <debianfan2439> i will never install something apart of something from the debian mirrors
3005[16:48:59] <annadane> well, regardless. like the rest of life, use common sense... but don't be afraid to do *anything*
3006[16:49:13] <debianfan2439> except*
3007[16:49:24] <debianfan2439> i did mean except not apart
3008[16:49:24] <karlpinc> wxb: The installer will see that you've got partitions (just like it did when you first installed, only those were the partitions you started with) and will let you continue the installation from there.
3013[16:50:09] <debianfan2439> annadane you said that i dont need antivirus in debian and its a windows thing is this really right
3014[16:50:12] <karlpinc> wxb: So long as you don't mess with your existing partitions they will be there for you. (Although you will probably have to go into the LUKS partition to unlock it.)
3018[16:51:01] <karlpinc> wxb: You should be able to see the partition holding the LUKS stuff. What happens when you choose it? (Don't tell it to "write" anything.)
3026[16:52:07] <annadane> debianfan2439, there's this lovely thing called an 'adblocker'.
3027[16:52:15] <karlpinc> wxb: Isn't there some sort of button to press to go to a menu of all the installation choices? Or maybe the escape key or something?
3028[16:52:20] <annadane> i know, everyone wants to support content creators, but please don't use the internet without one
3029[16:52:25] <debianfan2439> i have ublock origin like in tails i hope this is good
3030[16:52:27] <annadane> i recommend ublock origin, and check a bunch of filters
3033[16:53:06] <millaus564578568> trek00: in vsftpd.conf i set always write with a 755.. is there a php.conf file where i set permission for all directory my web app will create ?
3034[16:53:07] <karlpinc> wxb: In any case you're using your cd installer image right now, right?
3037[16:53:22] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: depends. as an example, should you use youtube-dl some day you maybe want to get it from upstream. buster has 2019.01.17-1.1, bullseye 2019.09.28-1 as per pdo. but the homepage is mentioned in the package, so it should be fine. you only should be careful if they try to sell you shoes 3 years after the release on such a page ;)
3038[16:53:28] <debianfan2439> annadane should i also install noscript
3039[16:53:36] <trek00> millaus564578568: not, you should read about umask under php
3040[16:53:36] <wxb> karlpinc, Yep, but when I go to the install step, it can't find the LUKS volumes...
3041[16:53:54] <wxb> karlpinc, I'm still on the full install.
3042[16:53:59] <wxb> cause wifi ain't working
3043[16:54:11] <karlpinc> wxb: Then do you know how to use an editor to change text in the sources.list file?
3048[16:54:28] <wxb> karlpinc, I think I'm gooing to start over....
3049[16:54:37] <annadane> some people do install noscript. personally i tend to just install ublock origin, https everywhere, decentraleyes, privacy badger. as far as i understand noscript/umatrix are more advanced and you have to fiddle with things... i probably wouldn't bother with them right off the bat i guess
3050[16:54:38] <wxb> karlpinc, Yes, I can do that.
3051[16:54:55] <karlpinc> wxb: Ok. then get to the vt with the shell prompt
3052[16:54:56] <debianfan2439> Ede|Popede is youtube-dl also avaiable in debian ?
3060[16:56:08] <karlpinc> That is really wierd. All the installer images should let you get to a vt.
3061[16:56:08] <trek00> millaus564578568: to setup the group on newly created files/directories you need to set the sticky bit on the parent directory; to setup the permission you need to set umask correctly
3062[16:56:13] <annadane> i use python3-venv for python packages like that, idk what i'd recommend to a relative newbie which is most pain-free
3063[16:56:28] <wxb> Start over I guess. So this time where do I boot boot?
3064[16:56:49] <debianfan2439> so if not from the website then from where i should download the program then
3074[16:57:46] <karlpinc> wxb: But it _should_ unlock the luks partition for you. At least in expert mode. You will need to load the modules for cryptsetup/luks and lvm.
3075[16:57:49] <debianfan2439> is yt-dl the offical website for debian youtube-dl
3076[16:58:06] <karlpinc> wxb: Did you do expert mode now?
3077[16:58:22] <millaus564578568> trek00: ok so there is not a general setting
3078[16:58:30] <millaus564578568> trek00: thk u for help
3079[16:58:47] <karlpinc> wxb: In expert mode it asks about what modules to load.
3083[17:00:40] <Ede|Popede> debianfan2439: debian packages that piece of software which else has no relationship to it. 'apt show youtube-dl | less' ( i STRONGLY recommend 'less' in this particular case) and look for the 'Homepage:' line.
3084[17:01:07] <greycat> youtube-dl generally doesn't work after a few weeks (youtube changes their site), and you need a new upstream release periodically
3085[17:01:19] <debianfan2439> it says less package is not installed
3086[17:01:25] <greycat> it's one of the things that you shouldn't even bother trying to use from Debian packages
3113[17:09:48] <greycat> eventually you realize when a person is not going to listen to you
3114[17:09:57] <greycat> that's why me /ignore list is so large
3115[17:10:09] <wxb> Okay, I'm in with firmware iso. Experct mode... choose modules from CD?
3116[17:10:10] *** Quits: psilonux (~psilonux@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3117[17:10:16] <karlpinc> youtube-dl is a python program so the latest version can easily be installed in a python virtual environment, and later discarded.
3118[17:10:18] *** Quits: rany (~rany@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3119[17:10:36] <jelly> (usually we cater to users with all sorts of knowledge levels, but sometimes there's a sarcasm epidemic)
3140[17:14:55] <millaus564578568> trek00: for samba user exist this kind of umask configuration ?
3141[17:14:55] <ratrace> well, pretty much every service daemon that binds to port <1000 has to, at least, start off as root... or you shell out some CAPs :)
3177[17:24:06] <debianfan243923> is debian currently used in the international space station?
3178[17:24:08] <wxb> karlpinc, Just wondering if you're around / not busy. I think I just might redo the install because I'm kinda lost in expert mode here...
3179[17:24:12] <Ede|Popede> it's another connection now
3207[17:34:25] <karlpinc> wxb: It may "just happen". If not, then you need rescue mode to put it in the grub config. (/etc/default/grub on squeeze, then "update-grub")
3208[17:34:45] *** Quits: debianfan243923 (d90838d5@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3209[17:34:50] <millaus564578568> is there a umask setting for samba give user create directory 775 ?
3240[17:42:27] <greycat> millaus564578568: unless you went out of your way to replace systemd with sysvinit, you should get used to one of the non-deprecated ways to manage services. Either "systemctl restart smbd" or something involving the "service" command.
3255[17:45:54] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See replaced-url
3256[17:46:16] <greycat> revolutionary: systemd is the name of the init system. systemctl is the command you use to do most of the things you do with it.
3309[18:02:35] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
3310[18:02:41] <cinesc> hmm
3311[18:03:10] <cinesc> This suddenly became easier than I thought to find
3312[18:03:29] <cinesc> which one offers more protection?
3392[18:34:33] <wxb> Now when I go to reboot, it starts Windows automatically. And if I go to select debian in the menu, it gives me a text grub> line. Does this mean that the boot thing failed?
3421[18:43:05] <wxb> trek00, Oh dear. It never ends... I started this 10 hours ago...
3422[18:43:18] <Latr_work> Guys what happens when you have installed sid packages into stable?
3423[18:43:25] <Habbie> !frankendebian
3424[18:43:25] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
3425[18:43:30] <Habbie> Latr_work, ^ that
3426[18:43:45] <Latr_work> right
3427[18:44:31] <Latr_work> I guess I am gonna have to solve the dependencies manually than
3428[18:44:42] <Habbie> that does not make things better
3429[18:44:44] <wxb> trek00, So this is definately a grub issue and a misplaced boot think during the manual partitioning and install?
3432[18:44:59] <Latr_work> buy getting rid of the sid ones and build them from source like for backported pkgs
3433[18:45:21] <Latr_work> Habbie: my goal is to have Mesa 19.X on buster
3434[18:45:28] <Latr_work> which I achieved that using sid packages
3435[18:45:38] <Habbie> why not just run sid then?
3436[18:45:53] <dvs> Habbie, because he's already running sid now?
3437[18:45:55] <Latr_work> but now I have few deps issue and I do not want to reinstall them
3438[18:46:17] <Latr_work> dvs: sid for mesa and a bunch of libs?
3439[18:46:20] <Habbie> dvs, how do you know?
3440[18:46:32] <Latr_work> I could purge them all and wont even lose X...
3441[18:46:37] <Latr_work> how am I running sid?
3442[18:47:03] <dvs> Latr_work, it depends on the "bunch of libs" that the packages installed.
3443[18:47:08] <greycat> If you installed any dynamically linked program from sid, it almost certainly brought in sid's libc6, at which point you are running sid.
3444[18:47:13] <Habbie> right
3445[18:47:14] <dvs> namely libc6
3446[18:47:39] <jelly> libc6 isn't anything special, it's just a rather common dependency for binary packages
3447[18:47:44] <Latr_work> I will double check that tonight at home
3448[18:47:54] <Lope> I removed my md0, so now my md's start from md1. Is it possible to reset them to start from zero?
3452[18:49:14] <jhutchins_wk> Latr_work: If you need sid packages, you can /msg dpkg ssb for instructions on how to build them for buster. Installing them directly usually means doing a clean system reinstall to recover.
3453[18:49:28] <Latr_work> so are you guys saying that resolving the deps to buster if I pulled libc6 from sid wont be possible?
3454[18:49:51] <wxb> How can I isolate the issue between grub and boot?
3455[18:50:07] <Latr_work> jhutchins_wk: I honestly never knew about it
3456[18:50:35] <Latr_work> I mean I never had to mess with sid repos on my server, and is my first ever debian distro
3458[18:52:03] <kadiro> what is the meaning of "Bad substitution" trying to use a script when login, i tried to add #/bin/sh or #/bin/bash but that will not execute the script but only show "Complete" (something like that)
3459[18:52:14] <greycat> Those shebangs are missing the bangs.
3460[18:52:28] <dvs> kadiro, #!/bin/sh
3461[18:52:31] <greycat> Do you know what a shebang without a shebang is? It's a comment.
3462[18:52:32] <wxb> basically I dual-boot installed Debian beside Windows and now it won't boot in Debian, but a get a grubish thing via the boot settings...
3463[18:52:35] <kadiro> I forget to say that the same script work fine in xubuntu session
3464[18:52:52] <kadiro> dvs, yeah both not working
3465[18:52:54] <greycat> When you run a script with a malformed shebang from an interactive shell, the results depend on which shell you're in.
3484[18:56:21] <greycat> Make sure the script has +x permissions, and run it by typing its pathname (./myscript if it's in the current working directory), or its basename if it's in a directory in PATH.
3485[18:57:02] <kadiro> jhutchins_wk, it is just a simple script that have: sleep 10s than executing conky
3487[18:57:16] <trek00> wxb: it seems to me that efi was setup correctly, grub was installed but left unconfigured, but i'm a bit busy now and can't help much
3488[18:57:43] <kadiro> If i remove the shebang thing the script work but it is kind of ignoring the function inside it
3489[18:57:49] <wxb> trek00, Okay. Thanks for the link - I'll try to not break things more!
3492[18:58:37] <greycat> I'm going to wait until you actually present some details, or ask a question that a person can answer.
3493[18:59:22] <kadiro> greycat, if i add #!/bin/bash or #!/bin/sh the script show only the word "Complete"
3494[18:59:27] <greycat> First it has "Bad substitution" errors, then it has "Complete" as its only output, and apparently that's not desired. Then it depends on which system you run it on. Then it has only two commands. Then it works. Then it has a function inside it.
3499[19:00:05] <greycat> Every time you say something it's either a repetition of the inane tripe you already typed, or it's an infuriating new reversal.
3505[19:01:25] <kadiro> greycat, you said add the shebang, i did tell you what happen when i do: result ==> Complete <<== I don't understand from where that word come
3506[19:01:51] <kadiro> greycat, i will change things inside it and give you the link
3507[19:01:52] <greycat> Here's an example. replaced-url
3508[19:01:56] <humpled> we don't understand where or how you read the script
3509[19:01:59] <humpled> erm, ran
3510[19:02:08] <greycat> Note that I showed the script, and then I showed HOW I RAN IT, and I showed its output.
3511[19:02:13] <trek00> wxb: this can help you better replaced-url
3512[19:02:26] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3514[19:02:51] <tjt263> hi, where can i get old, superseded, software packages from the era of squeeze/6.0 ? i can't find anything later than wheezy/7 on debian.org
3544[19:17:40] <greycat> kadiro: How many lies have you told. "The script is just sleep 10s and then conky." LIE. "The script contains a function." LIE.
3546[19:18:05] <kadiro> greycat, it is not like that?
3547[19:18:16] <greycat> The script -- I'm assuming the thing you pasted is the script -- is a disaster. It is basically wrong in every conceivable way. You hit a HUGE number of the bash pitfalls.
3552[19:19:09] <greycat> So, yes, there's a function in it. Very hard to spot because it's not up at the top and surrounded by blank lines and indented. You know, like a normal person would do.
3553[19:19:17] <kadiro> that's were the bad subtition things come
3555[19:19:37] <wxb> The options are /dev/dm-1 ; /dev/dm-2 ; /dev/mapper/sda5_crypt ; /dev/sda1 ; /dev/sda2 ; /dev/sda3 ; /dev/sda4 ; /dev/sda5 ; /dev/sdb1 ; /dev/sdb2 ; /dev/vg/other ; /dev/vg/swap ; something about RAID ; something about not using root file system. Which is the one?
3556[19:19:40] <greycat> The script is a DISASTER. It is so wrong that I refuse to even critique it.
3557[19:19:42] <Ether_Man> That script has my eyes bleeding >_<
3558[19:19:45] <jelly> dpkg, tell tjt263 about archive.debian.org
3559[19:19:46] * greycat clears it from his terminal
3590[19:28:09] <kadiro> jhutchins_wk, it is a startup when i login
3591[19:28:36] <Ether_Man> Hm. Just saying but the reason it doesn't work, could be the indentation errors? There's like 0 indentations here and at least python is super picky about that and it at least calls a python script in there
3605[19:31:17] <humpled> there's more than one question here, and the first one is 'Why?'
3606[19:31:25] <greycat> I asked them to show the script, to show them running the script, and to show its output. I got something that might have been the script, possibly, except there was nothing indicating its name or pathname.
3625[19:35:46] <trek00> wxb: you are trying to do a complex setup (dual boot + encrypted root): may be you should try at first a simple dual boot (without encryption) and then add encryption
3627[19:36:45] <wxb> trek00, Ah. I did ask that question a few hours back and was advised to do LUKs during the install...
3628[19:37:08] <wxb> trek00, If I put grub on the root partition, how will it run?
3629[19:37:17] <wxb> seeing as root is encyrpted.
3630[19:37:58] <trek00> wxb: yes but, i think it would be simpler to understand how to configure it properly and then do again installation with encryption too
3631[19:38:17] <wxb> It's been 11 hours, I need to finish.
3675[19:50:46] <greycat> Under systemd, Ctrl-Alt-F2 should take you to tty2, and this should cause a getty to spawn on tty2 and prompt for login. The getty will NOT have been running until you did this, unless you had previously been on tty2 during this boot.
3677[19:51:47] <greycat> I just verified it now, in fact, under buster: ps -ef | grep getty showed none, until I did C-A-F2, then ran the grep again, and voila. Now there's a getty.
3678[19:51:52] <wxb> trek00, Okay. did that shell command.
3720[19:58:12] <greycat> ska: is there anything special about your system that would cause oddities with the init system, the console, etc.? Is it a virtual machine, have you replaced systemd with an alternative, etc.
3747[20:03:12] <Miles8of9> is 8gb usb drive enough to burn debian dvd 1 ?
3748[20:03:17] <cinesc> if you want to do an "overclock" on your cpu
3749[20:03:29] <greycat> a DVD is like 4.7 GB, so yes, it should be
3750[20:03:31] <abrotman> a DVD can only be 4.7GB
3751[20:03:33] <wxb> trek00, Yeah, thanks. Should I go in with a gparted live flsh drive?
3752[20:03:38] <Miles8of9> ok ty
3753[20:03:42] *** Quits: elm (~elm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3754[20:03:59] <trek00> wxb: this is the most important part: you need a not-encrypted /boot and an encrypted volume with inside root partition and swap
3755[20:04:15] <wxb> trek00, Okay. Thanks for hightlighting that.
3800[20:16:02] <karlpinc> says that GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK can be used to boot from an encrypted disk. So wxb should not need a separate unencrypted /boot.
3801[20:16:44] <karlpinc> So wxb should not have to go through all the re-partitioning, setting up LUKS, etc., because he's done it already.
3821[20:20:21] <karlpinc> wxb: You can boot the installer in rescue mode and it will give you the choice to have a shell in your installed system.
3822[20:20:32] <somiaj> His_Dudeness__: what graphics card do you have?
3823[20:20:54] <wxb> karlpinc, then use nano?
3824[20:21:04] <karlpinc> wxb: Nano is good.
3825[20:21:26] <jhutchins_wk> !fixgrub
3826[20:21:26] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
3827[20:21:49] <jhutchins_wk> So it's nt a simple "update-grub", but not hard.
3845[20:24:25] <somiaj> His_Dudeness__: Debian derivatives (like mint) provide non-free firmware by default. Debian ensures that debian main has no non-free software, as such you don't get non-free firmware by default, you have to make the choice to install it.
3846[20:24:26] <wxb> and then opened some shell
3847[20:24:47] <His_Dudeness__> somiaj, just a sec
3883[20:32:51] <karlpinc> wxb: You don't want to partition, but you do want to unlock it. Try choosing it and see what it does. (But don't write anything to disk via the menus.)
3884[20:32:55] <somiaj> His_Dudeness__: as such, debian has a social contract to its users that only the offical software in main must be free. Now due to some hardware this has problems, so debian also provides access to non-free software, for users who want to use it. At some point of view this is just an additional step one needs to use, but to those who care about free software, you can ensure that apt only has access to free
3885[20:33:01] <somiaj> software.
3886[20:33:22] <Akuw> how can i get data from PORT STATE SERVICE
3889[20:33:45] <somiaj> His_Dudeness__: or you can clearly see if a piece of software is 'free' or not, by keeping them in seperate repos.
3890[20:33:55] <karlpinc> His_Dudeness__: There are unoffical install images availble with non-free firmware included. Those are easier to use, because your problem is avoided, but not recommended by Debian because it violates the social contract.
3907[20:36:32] <somiaj> dka: java is like ersion 13 right now, version 11 was the one avaialble at the time of the freeze
3908[20:36:56] <dka> what version should I install for development ?
3909[20:36:59] <dka> i was using java 8
3910[20:37:13] <greycat> "should" is a strong word here
3911[20:37:19] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: I think the factoid is old. But it still works. I run the installer less than once a year, but frobbed the grub config via rescue mode a few years back.
3912[20:37:20] <dka> should I stick to java 8?
3913[20:37:25] <somiaj> dka: that is a tricky question, and depends on what you are devleoping.
3914[20:37:28] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay, got to the password prompt.
3915[20:37:33] <dka> I was working on Spring Boot 1.8
3916[20:37:48] <wxb> karlpinc, entered it. Now I have to choose the root...
3917[20:37:55] <somiaj> dka: at some level you might want to realize that oracle only supports the newest version of openjdk, you have to pay for good support for older versions.
3918[20:38:00] <karlpinc> wxb: Right. Now you're in the right place.
3919[20:38:02] <wxb> I think I put that in /other
3920[20:38:21] <wxb> run a shell in /dev/vg/other ?
3921[20:38:30] <somiaj> dka: older versions only get security fixes, rarely bug fixes. If running buster and you don't have a paticular piece of software you need to run, I would use the version that comes with buster, which is 11.
3922[20:38:31] <karlpinc> wxb: yes
3923[20:38:38] <wxb> or run a shell in the contex of the the installer?
3924[20:38:58] <karlpinc> wxb: You want in your installed system, not in the installer.
3954[20:43:35] <wxb> I'm translating from French as I go, but here is the idea:
3955[20:43:45] <wxb> creating GRUB file
3956[20:43:55] <karlpinc> wxb: (I'd encourage you to learn vi/vim or emacs if you want to do anything techical on Unix.) (I like emacs, but you need to install the emacs25-common-non-dfsg (or equalivent) from the non-free repos to get the docs. The tutorial is especially useful.)
3957[20:44:00] <wxb> found background image: /usr/share.....
3958[20:44:21] <wxb> Image Linux found: /boot/vmlinus....
3960[20:45:01] <karlpinc> wxb: I don't think we really need to know, unless there's an error message.
3961[20:45:15] <wxb> grub-probe: error impossible to find a
3962[20:45:16] <karlpinc> Or if it says something about LUKS or cryptography.
3963[20:45:20] <jhutchins_wk> What's the variable that lets you set a language for a given command? Can't remember the factoid.
3964[20:45:29] <somiaj> nano works just fine. I guess when I started in unix pico (which nano is kinda based from) was a fairly standard editor too.
3965[20:45:31] <wxb> karlpinc, But there is that error with grub
3966[20:45:37] <tangarora> I am running openvpn on a host and telling it to forward everything through the tun0... so now all client pc's that set the ip of the host as default route get vpn internet access... cool?
3967[20:45:42] <tangarora> :=
3968[20:45:46] <tangarora> BUT
3969[20:45:57] <wxb> karlpinc, Yes, I did try to learn vim. I'd love to. It seems cool. Emacs too, but I tried out vim more.
4014[20:50:22] <tangarora> Zathras: I have this line: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE
4015[20:50:36] <wxb> So it booted into Windows....
4016[20:50:40] <Zathras> tangarora, what jhutchins_wk says
4017[20:50:46] <karlpinc> Zathras: It is sad redmine is not in buster. There's surely a bug report that says why. You could ask the judd bot to "checkbackport" (IIRC) and see if you can self-backport it.
4018[20:50:56] <tangarora> ok ok
4019[20:51:13] <Zathras> karlpinc, it had to do with dependencies, but these seem to be resolved now
4020[20:51:13] <karlpinc> wxb: That's good. You didn't break Windows. You have the option to boot into debian?
4021[20:51:30] <wxb> And I did the same thing via bios as before and I just get the black grub thing
4022[20:51:33] <wxb> like before.
4023[20:52:08] <karlpinc> wxb: Let me look up and see what "the black grub thing" is.
4043[20:54:52] <Zathras> kind of depends how fancy you want it to be and if you are comfortable installing plugins out of the .deb ecosystem or not as many are not packaged
4044[20:55:06] <Zathras> jhutchins_wk, it is ruby
4045[20:55:06] <wxb> jhutchins_wk, No, but there is _
4046[20:55:19] <wxb> I can type whatever there.
4047[20:55:22] <karlpinc> wxb: You probably need to tell grub your LUKS password (and maybe the disk).
4048[20:55:31] <wxb> wxb
4049[20:55:33] <wxb> oops
4050[20:55:34] <wxb> Okay.
4051[20:55:38] <Zathras> it requires messing with rails. Indeed not easy to get going
4153[21:17:52] <wxb> Should I put the 400 at start or end?
4154[21:17:56] <wxb> start no?
4155[21:18:16] <karlpinc> wxb: Shouldn't matter really. Start is fine.
4156[21:18:31] <wxb> name?
4157[21:18:53] <karlpinc> wxb: bootpartition ?
4158[21:19:00] <wxb> use as ext2? like here: replaced-url
4159[21:19:07] <wxb> karlpinc, Yes, still on that one.
4160[21:19:25] <somiaj> wxb: on modern systems it doesn't mattter, mostly just needs to be outside of LUKES, if using UEFI, ake sure you also have an efi partition.
4161[21:19:26] <karlpinc> wxb: ext2 is fine. Nothing seriously wrong with ext4 either.
4190[21:24:53] <karlpinc> wxb: You could put a plain-old partition table on there, with 2 partitions. But if there ever might be a 2nd hard drive enter the picture LVM is really useful.
4221[21:29:52] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: "nouvaeu" is a free software driver.
4222[21:29:59] <somiaj> Miles8of9: the reason the 304xx is no longer in buster is because nvidia will not make it compile against new xorg and new kernels
4223[21:30:06] <somiaj> Miles8of9: you will have to use nouveau in this case.
4224[21:30:16] <Lope> ratrace, is it possible to execute a wget command when the initramfs has brought up the network?
4225[21:30:46] <karlpinc> wxb: sda6_crypt needs to be marked as a LVM volume.
4234[21:32:57] <wxb> Okay. Done LVM. Do I need to do something with the ext2 boot /boot one?
4235[21:33:16] <Miles8of9> 340 drivers etc etc have no problems compiling with newer xorg, so i think it's the software around that driver that could be updated but the maintainers won't do it
4236[21:33:23] <wxb> It has no bootflag... should I turn it on?
4237[21:33:33] <wxb> Oh. I can't.
4238[21:33:35] <karlpinc> Lope: Hack the initramfs. There's hooks for that sort of stuff. Have it run curl (or something). There's readmes in /usr/share/doc/initramfs.... (Or somewhere). You may need to put curl (or something) into the initramfs. But the real problem might be setting up the networking. It will be a project.
4240[21:33:49] <trek00> wxb: boot flag was for old bios mbr
4241[21:33:57] <wxb> trek00, Okay. thnx
4242[21:34:05] <karlpinc> wxb: You can turn on the boot flag in your /boot partition. I don't know if UEFI or grub or anything really cares.
4243[21:34:07] <Lope> karlpinc, I've already got the networking working
4244[21:34:25] <ratrace> Lope: yeah you just need to write an initramfs-tools script and put it in the appropriate stage at /etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/...
4245[21:34:34] <wxb> So... I just apply changes to partitions and continue install and GRUB will find the /boot partition this time?
4246[21:34:35] *** Dagger2 is now known as Dagger
4247[21:34:41] <karlpinc> Lope: And then rebuild the initramfs.
4254[21:35:02] <Lope> ratrace, basically an sh script? but the environment is busybox, not bash, right?
4255[21:35:11] <karlpinc> wxb: It had better. I want to see it boot. (and have nothing else go sideways)
4256[21:35:11] <ratrace> Lope: right
4257[21:35:25] <Lope> ratrace, can I just copy the wget binary into somewhere? what about dependencies?
4258[21:35:31] <ratrace> Lope: man initramfs-tools for details and look up scripts under /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ for examples
4259[21:35:35] <wxb> karlpinc, lol. I'm exhausted, but am hoping...
4260[21:35:44] <ratrace> Lope: ah yes, for that you'll need a "hook"
4261[21:35:47] <wxb> just double checking here...
4262[21:36:02] <Lope> ratrace, do you do any such thing (http request) ?
4263[21:36:20] <ratrace> Lope: not yet but the plan is to have the root LUKS unlocking by fetching a key over https from our key server
4264[21:36:34] <ratrace> haven't yet gotten to writing the keyserver part
4265[21:36:39] <Lope> ratrace, so basically, I'll be ahead of you soon :p
4266[21:36:48] <wxb> I forgot all the root and swap stuff. Doing that now.
4267[21:36:52] <karlpinc> Lope: You may need libraries in addition to whatever else. (nc sounds like the simplest way to make a http request, with fewest requirements)
4268[21:36:52] <ratrace> Lope: mayhaps :)
4269[21:36:53] <Lope> the student surpasses the master muahahaha j/k.
4270[21:37:25] <Lope> karlpinc, it's actually an httpS request, so nc won't work.
4275[21:38:06] <karlpinc> Lope: And to be serious you'll need certs in the initramfs too.
4276[21:38:11] <wxb> installing base system...
4277[21:38:13] <ratrace> Lope: oh for that don't forget to include libssl (and essentially any lib ldd'd from wget) and certs
4278[21:38:26] <Lope> ratrace, fun times
4279[21:38:27] <ratrace> Lope: for that I plan not to use ca-certficates at all, but a custom CA
4280[21:38:53] <Lope> ratrace, what's wrong with ca-certificates?
4281[21:39:23] <karlpinc> Lope: Depends on whether it's harder to keep up with all of wget-s library requirements or harder to script using something simpler.
4284[21:39:55] <n-iCe> guys, how do I stop restoring apps when I shutdown/Reboot
4285[21:40:02] <karlpinc> Lope: After a while, adding stuff (lots-o-certs) can bloat your initramfs.
4286[21:40:11] <ratrace> Lope: I prefer self signed certs wherever possible. Using public CAs is becoming less and less secure as governments ramp up for cyberwarfare and CA become more vulnerable to their.... requests.
4287[21:40:19] <Lope> if the initramfs is a few mb bigger it's not an issue
4290[21:40:36] <ratrace> while I'd not be a target of a government, my concern is with the corruptible human factor in all this and selling stuff to black markets.
4291[21:40:52] <ratrace> put a human in the equation and the whole house of cards comes down
4292[21:41:03] * karlpinc aspires to be the target of a government
4293[21:41:05] <wxb> With a name like ratrace I think you blend in well with. lol
4294[21:41:06] <Lope> ratrace, for sure. however for my use case it's not really security sensitive.
4295[21:41:08] <wxb> karlpinc, lol
4296[21:41:21] <Lope> I'll just be sending myself a msg from my server to let me know that it's booting.
4297[21:41:30] <ratrace> wxb: what do you mean? It's R. Atrace
4320[21:45:00] <ratrace> People say, if you have nothing to hide, what do you care? Well I care because databases get hacked, and leaked and before you know it, the bad guys have all the info they need to hack ME or my bank account, steal identity, and do worse stuff....
4326[21:45:24] <Miles8of9> mmm Xorg is refusing to start because nvidia driver is still in its config /etc/X11/xorg.conf do i simply remove the "nvidia" line and replace it with "nouveau"?
4337[21:46:56] <karlpinc> wxb: The easy way is to use rescue mode like you did before. Get a root shell in the installed system and do an: apt-get install ...
4397[21:54:36] <karlpinc> wxb: sad face. Ok. Download all the buster .deb packages you need onto a usb stick and install them with dpkg. If you do them all at once (except for maybe the broadcomm package) on one command line then you don't have to worry about what needs what. (I think.)
4407[21:56:33] <Lope> SerajewelKS, you seem to be mistaken. I've just opened 2 of the luks volumes (that were not open) with the same names as I've put in crypttab, and now update-initramfs is not complaining about those ones, only the remaining closed luks volumes.
4408[21:57:09] <SerajewelKS> Lope: it's possible. i don't recall having this issue with closed luks volumes before.
4409[21:57:18] <karlpinc> wxb: Like, you could wire an ethernet crossover cable between the box you're using for irc and the new box, and then setup networking. But that'd be more trouble than downloading the .debs you need.
4410[21:58:06] <SerajewelKS> crossover may not be required, most NICs these days can auto sense when a regular patch cable is used
4411[21:58:29] <karlpinc> wxb: I'd use your irc box to download: apt-get download pkg ....
4412[21:58:50] <Lope> SerajewelKS, I mounted them all now and ran update-initramfs -u and it completed now without errors.
4413[21:58:52] <karlpinc> wxb: Assuming you're running buster on the irc box that's an easy way to get the latest package.
4414[21:59:10] <SerajewelKS> Lope: was it actually an error or just a warning?
4415[22:00:05] <karlpinc> wxb: After you get networking working be sure to "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade". (Actually, I'm an aptitude user myself, but use what works for you.)
4416[22:00:17] <Lope> SerajewelKS, errors and warnings
4417[22:00:24] <trek00> karlpinc: wxb: if running buster, this can help with dependencies replaced-url
4424[22:01:55] <SerajewelKS> Lope: no i mean you run 'swapon -a' after adding it to the fstab
4425[22:01:58] <karlpinc> wxb: I like trek00's solution above. The 2nd answer that uses apt-get.
4426[22:02:16] <SerajewelKS> Lope: a swap entry would look like: /path/to/dev/or/file/or/uuid none swap sw 0 0
4427[22:02:22] <wxb> I trek00 Sorry didn't see that.
4428[22:02:44] <Lope> SerajewelKS, yes, that implies that. okay thanks for the example, are you sure it's right? i don't want to brick my remote server.
4429[22:03:04] <SerajewelKS> Lope: if it's wrong you'll just get some error
4430[22:03:14] <Lope> so the server will still boot?
4432[22:03:19] <karlpinc> wxb: But note also that you need the build-essential package and linux-headers-amd64 package in addition to the broadcomm package.
4433[22:03:33] <SerajewelKS> Lope: to my knowledge activating swap won't panic the init system
4434[22:03:39] <SerajewelKS> or failure to do so, i mean
4437[22:05:01] <karlpinc> wxb: Or maybe the 3rd answer is really the best....
4438[22:05:50] <karlpinc> wxb: If you still have that cd image on a usb stick it will have some packages already downloaded. (In the end, it is probably too much bother to use it because you'll need some from the net anyway.)
4439[22:06:31] <karlpinc> wxb: And apparently the wireless-tools package too.
4440[22:07:15] <karlpinc> Lope: FWIW, I've had swap fail to start in the initramfs and it wasn't a problem. But my experience was years ago.
4441[22:07:48] <wxb> wxb, Okay. I'm struggling with that script in the link.
4456[22:11:37] <karlpinc> wxb: No packages depend on that package. But you also need the 3 other packages I mentioned above.
4457[22:11:40] <Lope> fuck. this isn't going to be an easy fix. my luks password is from hell. typing it in over the DC's piece of shit console is gonna be death.
4474[22:14:29] <karlpinc> wxb: Yes, make a new directory and cd into it before downloading.
4475[22:15:03] <wxb> I got a ton of packages... And sorry, I'm looking now for the other three that you are telling me about.
4476[22:15:32] <karlpinc> wxb: There will be a ton.
4477[22:15:53] *** Quits: JTDoc (uid180843@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4478[22:16:22] <SerajewelKS> Lope: note that if the swap area is a proper device (physical, md, dm, whatever) as opposed to a file, you can specify it by the UUID mkswap reports instead of by the device path
4479[22:16:40] <karlpinc> wxb: The good news is that many are base packages and will already be installed, but you don't know which ones.
4502[22:20:18] <karlpinc> trek00: It is probably not worth it. Next time there's an update the broadcomm package will need to be compiled on the target machine anyway.
4518[22:22:19] <Lope> SerajewelKS, the options for my-encrypted-swap in crypttab are none luks,initramfs
4519[22:22:20] <karlpinc> mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt
4520[22:22:29] *** Quits: cfoch (uid153227@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4521[22:22:41] <karlpinc> wxb: (probably) That's likely the name of the flash drive's partition.
4522[22:22:50] <SerajewelKS> Lope: okay. you can also forgo luks to use a randomly-generated key, which has a few advantages assuming you never intend to hibernate the system.
4523[22:23:02] <SerajewelKS> Lope: i have a swap volume configured like: swap_crypt
4524[22:23:08] <SerajewelKS> erm good job paste, one sec
4525[22:23:22] <kadiro> i got this from dmesg [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] *ERROR* Atomic update failure on pipe A (start=633808 end=633809) time 173 us, min 763, max 767, scanline start 761, end 769
4526[22:23:28] <karlpinc> wxb: You can do an lsblk if that mount does not work and find the right device name.
4527[22:23:32] *** Quits: ce_cin_anggi (~user6439@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4528[22:23:32] <Lope> oh, well, yeah that would work for me.
4529[22:23:52] <wxb> karlpinc, "mount: /mnt: special device /dev/sdb1 does not exist
4539[22:25:05] <karlpinc> wxb: cd into /mnt and whatever other dirs you put in there to get to where the .deb files are.
4540[22:25:21] <Lope> SerajewelKS, I notice you have the option swap... is that important?
4541[22:25:28] <SerajewelKS> Lope: one of the advantages of doing it this way is that the contents of swap are irrecoverable after shutdown / power loss because the random key is discarded
4542[22:25:41] <Lope> I used the option luks
4543[22:25:50] <SerajewelKS> Lope: that's what makes the crypto setup scripts run mkswap for you
4545[22:25:58] <wxb> karlpinc, Okay, I'm in the dir with all the debs.
4546[22:26:00] <SerajewelKS> Lope: luks and swap are effectively mutually exclusive
4547[22:26:03] <Lope> oh, that's nice.
4548[22:26:09] <karlpinc> wxb: dpkg -i *.deb
4549[22:26:37] <SerajewelKS> Lope: "swap" means that after opening the crypto device with a random key, mkswap is run (because whatever was there will be garbage when interpreted with a random key)
4550[22:26:51] <Lope> SerajewelKS, so "swap_crypt UUID=... /dev/urandom swap,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=256" is your crypttab entry?
4551[22:26:56] <kadiro> i got this from dmesg [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] *ERROR* Atomic update failure on pipe A (start=633808 end=633809) time 173 us, min 763, max 767, scanline start 761, end 769, two times or so
4552[22:27:15] <Lope> SerajewelKS, looks great, thanks bud. will give it a go.
4553[22:27:20] <SerajewelKS> Lope: it also runs mkswap on the underlying device (the md device in your case) after closing the crypto device, to leave behind an unencrypted swap device. this is done so you can share the swap device with another OS.
4554[22:27:21] <wxb> karlpinc, dpkg warkning: Idconfig not found in the path variable or is not executable
4555[22:27:27] <SerajewelKS> Lope: yes, that is my crypttab entry
4557[22:27:45] <Lope> If I reboot my server I'll get busybox access at the initramfs stage...
4558[22:27:45] <karlpinc> kadiro: We heard the first time. A) what is your question. B) If it were me I'd google the whole thing, with " quotes around it, and see what comes up.
4559[22:27:53] <karlpinc> wxb: ldconfig?
4560[22:28:01] <Lope> is there anything I can do at that stage to fix the boot?
4571[22:28:57] <Lope> SerajewelKS, would I be able to mount the root filesystem and then edit fstab for example?
4572[22:29:13] <SerajewelKS> Lope: again, maybe
4573[22:29:27] <Lope> SerajewelKS, why maybe?
4574[22:29:29] <SerajewelKS> it's hard to say until the failure has happened
4575[22:29:33] <karlpinc> wxb: is libc-bin in your .deb files?
4576[22:29:37] <wxb> Note: the variable PATH of superuser should normally contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin
4577[22:29:44] <Lope> my initramfs busybox environment works.
4578[22:29:47] <SerajewelKS> Lope: for example if the initrd is missing a kernel module, then you're SOL at that point
4579[22:30:03] <Lope> the system booted fine before I added all the additional luks to the mix.
4580[22:30:13] <Lope> when it was only the rootfs luks it was fine.
4581[22:30:16] *** Quits: n-iCe (~nice@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
4582[22:30:34] <Lope> no, that wouldn't be the case.
4583[22:30:40] <SerajewelKS> right so hopefully the initrd has the appropriate kernel modules to open luks volumes. though if you unlocked from dropbear then it must have.
4584[22:30:41] <wxb> karlpinc, No, but libc-dev-bin is.
4585[22:30:49] <kadiro> karlpinc, google give some result about a bug
4586[22:30:57] <SerajewelKS> i'm just speculating. but my point stands: i can't guarantee that you could fix any boot error from busybox.
4587[22:31:12] <karlpinc> kadiro: I don't know. Could be there's just a bug and you get error messages. If nothing stops working then you might be able to ignore it.
4588[22:31:18] <SerajewelKS> it's all hypothetical until we're looking at an actual error message
4589[22:31:23] <Lope> SerajewelKS, problem is I don't know how to function in the busybox environment. There is no `fdisk -l` for example
4590[22:31:29] <Lope> so I'm a bit lost there.
4591[22:31:37] <SerajewelKS> same. but we can stumble through together maybe.
4592[22:31:54] <karlpinc> wxb: I think you need libc-bin and its dependencies. So you'll need to cd out of /mnt and "umount /mnt" and remove the stick and get more debs.
4593[22:32:00] <kadiro> karlpinc, ah that make sense, but when that error come it affect the network to shutdown and restart
4594[22:32:23] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4595[22:33:03] <karlpinc> kadiro: Not good. Again, option B. Ask google and see if somebody has an answer. Or wait for somebody here to suggest something.
4596[22:33:39] <kadiro> karlpinc, ok i'm waiting as google gives only bugs without a fix
4605[22:34:42] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
4606[22:34:47] <wxb> karlpinc, I unmounted the flash drive, and am back on this machine.
4607[22:34:48] <karlpinc> ,v kernels
4608[22:34:50] <judd> No package named 'kernels' was found in amd64.
4610[22:34:57] <SerajewelKS> Lope: FWIW i have a bit of experience with this stuff. i recently performed a multi-stage storage migration on my server and part of that involved moving an existing md-raid device into LUKS while the system was still on. but i also didn't have boot issues, so i don't have as much experience there.
4611[22:34:58] *** Quits: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4612[22:35:21] <Lope> SerajewelKS, thanks bud. okay I soft rebooted and I'm logged into the busybox.
4613[22:35:27] <wxb> karlpinc, And yes, I cd'd there.
4614[22:35:39] <karlpinc> wxb: But it did not download?
4615[22:36:00] <Lope> SerajewelKS, at least I've got some busybox skills. I just did `cat /proc/partitions`
4621[22:36:55] <Lope> SerajewelKS, the error occurs after I enter the password (which gets applied to 7 luks volumes) and the system starts booting forreal
4622[22:37:22] <Lope> SerajewelKS, they haven't connected the KVM for me yet so I don't know what the error is.
4623[22:37:34] <Justin683> Got a question I’m trying to sideload parrotOS on my laptop and when I have the bios set to legacy mode it grub fails to see I have a windows partition and wants to overwrite my mbr which I get that’s fine I just don’t feel like reinstalling windows again because grub doesn’t see that partition. However if I boot in uefi grub2 sees the partition why is it in legacy mode it doesn’t??? I rather have legacy
4624[22:37:34] <SerajewelKS> Lope: hrm that makes things very difficult
4625[22:37:34] <Justin683> mode set in bios because I have windows 10 and XP partitions
4627[22:37:54] <SerajewelKS> Lope: we need to know what went wrong to be able to fix it
4628[22:38:00] <Lope> I'm logged in to busybox. That's correct. It's waiting for a password. I've tried running `cryptsetup` but got "command not found"
4641[22:39:53] <karlpinc> wxb: (When it comes to configuring wifi I won't be able to help.)
4642[22:40:41] <Lope> SerajewelKS, cryptsetup is there, but maybe I have to find it's exact path.
4643[22:41:08] <kadiro> ah i got something, i have stresh debian, may be i need to use buster
4644[22:41:23] <karlpinc> Lope: I agree with SerajewelKS, I don't think the problem is swap. But I'm not so up-to-date so take that with a grain of salt.
4664[22:43:20] <Lope> but when I ran that and entered the key it said blah set up successfully. Then dropbear ended, meaning the boot process continued.
4665[22:43:24] *** Quits: blackmajic (~black@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
4673[22:44:16] <SerajewelKS> yes, i know, i also use it
4674[22:44:31] <SerajewelKS> and yet... cryptsetup isn't present where the initramfs hooks would put it
4675[22:44:33] <Lope> SerajewelKS, the weird thing is I want to enter the password to unlock the root fs, but I want to prevent the system from booting further.
4676[22:44:35] <karlpinc> wxb: Check $PATH and see that it has /sbin and /usr/sbin/ and so forth.
4677[22:44:42] <karlpinc> wxb: echo $PATH
4678[22:44:45] <wxb> karlpinc, It's working :)!
4679[22:45:08] <wxb> with su - instead of su
4680[22:45:11] <SerajewelKS> Lope: what does 'ls /sbin/cryptsetup' say?
4681[22:45:20] <Lope> SerajewelKS, brilliant. it's at /sbin/cryptsetup, as you said.
4690[22:46:16] <karlpinc> wxb: Because it's a kernel module it won't hurt to reboot once it is installed to activate it. (I don't do dkms, so don't know if a reboot is really required or not.)
4691[22:46:33] <wxb> karlpinc, So, all that installed
4692[22:46:40] <karlpinc> wxb: (and if you reboot you won't have to umount. :)
4784[22:57:51] <karlpinc> wxb: Check to make sure your broadcomm package really is installed.
4785[22:57:54] <wxb> I've got a wirless card which I think broadcom-sta-dkms deals with. I installed it and all dependencies via flash drive and dpkg. Now when I run ip link, no wifi is detected... Any thoughts? thanks!
4786[22:58:21] *** Quits: bipolar (~bipolar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4819[23:02:13] <Lope> if it has to bugger around making a new encryption story and making swap etc that's slower than just using one that's already made.
4820[23:02:30] <wxb> I did dmesg|less and it is panicic just a string of vertical ~ down the side with (END) at the bottom.
4821[23:02:33] <SerajewelKS> sure. by a second or two.
4827[23:04:20] <SerajewelKS> could try rebooting now to see what happens
4828[23:04:30] <Lope> yeah will reboot now
4829[23:05:38] <SerajewelKS> still seems really odd to me that boot would fail because swap couldn't activate. that's the perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
4835[23:07:17] <Lope> but that other binary /bin/cryptroot-unlock is nice, because it says success (which is nice to see) then it blocks until dropbear gets terminated.
4836[23:07:28] <Lope> so I'm interested to see if I can echo the password into that instead.
4838[23:07:46] <Lope> SerajewelKS, the server booted flawlessly :)
4839[23:08:03] <SerajewelKS> if swap did cause that i'd call a bug on it in some package. systemd maybe.
4840[23:08:07] <wxb> I'm stuck in dmesg|less
4841[23:08:13] <cinesc> is there an equivalent of freon for kde?
4842[23:08:50] <Lope> SerajewelKS, seems stupid as hell to prevent a server booting, when it has 64GiB of RAM and it can't get the swap to activate.
4843[23:09:08] <SerajewelKS> Lope: exactly, IMO that shouldn't happen and i've never had it happen on any of my systems
4844[23:09:25] <SerajewelKS> Lope: and my setup is almost surely more complex that your setup :)
4845[23:09:25] <Lope> well have you ever tried to boot with unmade swap?
4846[23:09:39] <Lope> haha I think I'll give your setup a run for it's money.
4847[23:09:41] <SerajewelKS> not unmade, but other errors (device not existing)
4848[23:10:04] <Lope> SerajewelKS, I've got 7 luks in my system's crypttab hahaa
4849[23:10:12] *** Quits: ToAsTeR` (~toaster@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4850[23:10:30] <SerajewelKS> i have / in LVM in LUKS in md-raid1 and i have a secondary volume in LUKS in md-raid5 where one of the members is an iscsi target
4851[23:10:42] <SerajewelKS> Lope: hmm sounds like you really want LVM...
4860[23:12:51] <Lope> no, it's 2 SSDs with 4 raid arrays and 2 other LUKS partitions on each SSD. Then there's hard disks. Oh so when I add the hard disks it'll be 9 LUKS.
4872[23:15:25] <Lope> partitioning md devices wouldn't have solved my problem unless I did that haha. But that's also more complexity.
4873[23:15:30] <Lope> I'm happy with a ton of LUKS
4874[23:15:33] <Lope> good luks
4875[23:15:47] <SerajewelKS> yeah it wasn't a serious suggestion
4876[23:15:51] <Lope> at least the ZFS zealots won't be upset with me.
4877[23:15:52] <SerajewelKS> you want LUKS inside of md-raid anyway
4878[23:16:05] <Lope> SerajewelKS, I've got that yeah.
4879[23:16:09] <Lope> for the ones that are md.
4880[23:16:24] <SerajewelKS> i was just saying that technically md-raid on LUKS on md-raid would give you a topmost layer you could partition
4881[23:16:27] <Lope> zfs likes do do some stuff with raw disks
4882[23:16:36] <Lope> for other stuff it likes md
4883[23:16:50] <SerajewelKS> but i can't say why ZFS would do better on LUKS than on LVM
4884[23:17:05] * graphicsv How exactly are the Debian packages changelog generated?
4885[23:17:07] <wxb> Si ip link is not giving me any wifi card output. I just tried installing the non-free driver, but it still won't detect. What can I do to solve this?
4886[23:17:08] <SerajewelKS> if it makes that much of a difference then ZFS must be some buggy shit
4887[23:17:11] <graphicsv> How exactly are the Debian packages changelog generated?
4888[23:17:25] <Lope> SerajewelKS, their criticism is actually of using LVM
4889[23:17:46] <Lope> They hate the idea of ZFS going thru LVM to get to the disk.
4890[23:17:58] <Lope> it makes them lose their shit.
4933[23:25:21] <SerajewelKS> you do not want raw storage access going through userspace
4934[23:25:37] <SerajewelKS> if you ever put swap on there you can run into a situation where you loop infinitely trying to page stuff out
4935[23:25:51] <Lope> The thing I was using nbd for once was that I had a HDD with unused space in a windows machine. and i didn't want to trust the windows machine. So I had vmware share a partition via nbd
4936[23:25:58] <SerajewelKS> sshfs asks for more memory, kernel tries to swap out, triggers a write to sshfs, loop starts over
4937[23:25:59] <Lope> worked well.
4938[23:26:23] <Lope> then I put luks on the NBD, mounted remotely of course.
4939[23:26:43] <SerajewelKS> i did some research into nbd vs iscsi. the opinions were that iscsi is more mature and stable and has dramatically fewer issues.
4940[23:26:53] <Lope> ok
4941[23:26:57] <Lope> never tried iscsi
4942[23:27:07] <SerajewelKS> nbd is theoretically faster, i think. but in my case the bottleneck is the disk anyway, so the network speed doesn't much matter.
4944[23:27:50] <SerajewelKS> if you have no knowledge of iscsi it's a pain in the ass to set up because there is a lot of domain specific knowledge and terminology. i'm comfortable with it now after tinkering for about two months.
4946[23:28:09] <Lope> <SerajewelKS> you do not want raw storage access going through userspace << yeah of course I would only use filesharing in a situation where you trust all devices and are just storing files. Anything special like raid and so on of course you've gotta have block access.
4947[23:28:28] <SerajewelKS> right. i don't necessarily mean for security though, but for guarantees.
4982[23:33:13] <SerajewelKS> but yeah these boxes just export the storage over the network. the iscsi initiator (client) puts a luks layer on it, so the HC2 doesn't have to do encryption. neither can it read the device contents.
4983[23:33:28] <SerajewelKS> the CPU and RAM honestly are a bit of a waste, heh
4989[23:34:22] <Lope> what some people do with the H2+ H3 and H5 etc because they've got 4 real USB2 ports is they connect 4 USB drives to them, to make a 4 drive NAS. You could do more of course with hubs, but couldn't access all drives at the full USB2 speed of course.
4992[23:35:27] <Lope> but yeah, i had a NanoPi Neo2 as a router. With gigabit eth and a HDD connected to a USB2 port. And although the diff between gigabit eth and USB2 isn't mind blowing, I did feel the pain of USB2 from time to time.
4993[23:35:27] <SerajewelKS> the HC2's ethernet port is USB as well. but it's all USB3.
4994[23:35:35] <Lope> yeah.
4995[23:35:42] <SerajewelKS> so it can use the full gigabit throughput
4996[23:36:15] <SerajewelKS> i did performance tests on the HC2 itself and on the iscsi client, the numbers were pretty much identical
4997[23:36:18] <Lope> yeah, it's nice when SBC's have GbE but I've realized all you really need is USB3.
4998[23:36:28] <SerajewelKS> which means the USB3 controller can handle the network traffic and disk I/O without becoming the bottleneck
4999[23:36:31] <Lope> I really like the USB3 hubs that have 3 USB3 ports and 1 GbE
5000[23:36:33] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
5001[23:37:05] <SerajewelKS> the HC2's also have a USB3 port so you can have two disks, one SATA and one USB
5002[23:37:17] <SerajewelKS> i would have preferred an additional USB port but oh well
5003[23:37:33] <Lope> Yeah, it's good to remember that USB3.0 is 5 gigabit. So you could in theory run 5 gigabit eth ports at full speed off a single USB3 port.
5004[23:37:36] <cinesc> how do I update an individual package in the terminal?
5005[23:37:53] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
5006[23:37:56] <Lope> SerajewelKS, just add a USB3 hub.
5007[23:37:57] <SerajewelKS> cinesc: 'apt-get install packagename' should install a newer version
5008[23:38:03] <cinesc> ok
5009[23:38:26] <SerajewelKS> Lope: i'll have to look into that. right now it's an academic discussion because i don't have extra USB disks to use with them
5010[23:38:27] <Lope> SerajewelKS, it's funny that all these SBC's are basically smartphone SoC's
5011[23:38:43] <Lope> but it's also quite funny that some of them have Fast Ethernet built into the SoC.
5012[23:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1542
5013[23:39:06] <Lope> Then to think there are millions of smartphones with FastEthernet capabilities unused hehe.
5024[23:40:49] <Lope> The H2+ and H3 (and I think H5 and H6) have fast ethernet built in... the ones that have GbE have a full, discreet Gigabit eth chip on the board.
5034[23:42:35] <Lope> SerajewelKS, I'm really excited about the Udoo bolt or whatever it's called. That AMD thingy. But my god it's overpriced. It's like $500 for the full version.
5065[23:48:55] <wasamasa> you mean it's not off worse?
5066[23:49:16] <blakkheim> if a package in sid is very outdated and the maintainer doesn't reply to emails, what's the most-likely-to-work method of getting it updated?
5067[23:49:19] <cinesc> so far maybe slower than before but I have only tested spore
5068[23:49:45] <SerajewelKS> blakkheim: request the package be orphaned, become a debian developer, and adopt it
5069[23:49:57] <Lope> cinesc, there aren't a huge amount of ryzen choices for laptops last time I checked. but no doubt they're coming. Microsoft's new top of the line surface will be using AMD. Their budget options will use intel.
5070[23:50:06] <blakkheim> SerajewelKS: i could probably do that. is there a page to read on the actual process?
5071[23:50:14] *** Quits: inonzur (~inonzur@replaced-ip) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
5072[23:50:19] <SerajewelKS> blakkheim: which part?
5073[23:50:21] <cinesc> is there any that doesn´t ape a macbook?
5074[23:50:28] <blakkheim> requesting it to be orphaned
5075[23:51:10] <SerajewelKS> blakkheim: hmm actually i don't think you can orphan a package unless you are the maintainer
5092[23:54:17] <SerajewelKS> blakkheim: if you do want to adopt it yourself, after becoming a debian developer you'd file a bug against the wnpp package