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• 10[00:06:23] <dudebr> ive installed zypper, now im trying to add the repo and install apt trough zypper
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• 14[00:07:34] <somiaj> !zypper
• 15[00:07:49] <somiaj> dudebr: I don't understand what you are asking, and what zypper is.
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• 19[00:08:21] <somiaj> ahh zypper is some other package manager. I personally suggest sticking with debian's tools.
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• 21[00:08:30] <somiaj> Why do you want to install a different verion of apt than you are using?
• 22[00:08:41] <annadane> somiaj, i think the point is dudebr broke apt doing something
• 23[00:08:53] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 25[00:09:28] <Zathras> fearnothing, also check backports
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• 29[00:10:51] <annadane> he also says 'unsable to boot from usb'
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• 31[00:12:05] <somiaj> sounds like they broke python installing unoffical or third party stuff
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• 33[00:12:17] <somiaj> pycompile not found, and pycompile is part of python which is a core package in jessie
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• 58[00:21:13] <dudebr> replaced-url
• 59[00:21:41] <annadane> ooh boy.
• 60[00:21:49] <annadane> slow down before you break stuff even more
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• 75[00:28:26] <bzed> dudebr: wtf.... what exactly are you doing?
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• 81[00:29:47] <dudebr> the update works ok replaced-url
• 82[00:30:05] <dudebr> but the upgrade is broken
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• 87[00:31:22] <dudebr> replaced-url
• 88[00:32:13] <dudebr> bzed: i need to fix the apt
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• 90[00:32:26] <somiaj> again it looks like python is broken
• 91[00:32:33] <somiaj> !don't break debian
• 92[00:32:33] <dpkg> dont break debian is probably replaced-url
• 93[00:32:50] <somiaj> you might want to read over that for some best pratices, though with your current problem, unsure if you want to spend the time to debug it or just reinstall
• 94[00:33:16] <phogg> I've broken Debian in all kinds of fun and interesting ways, but never so badly that apt isn't even installed.
• 95[00:33:19] * phogg is impressed
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• 102[00:34:57] <dudebr> somiaj: my netbook is a piece of crap. having truble even to boot from usb
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• 118[00:42:50] <dudebr> dont spend more time with this issue. i need a new pc, point.
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• 121[00:45:00] <warsoul> hi guys
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• 124[00:45:08] <warsoul> im getting my new pc tomorrow
• 125[00:45:24] <warsoul> can i do a backup of my settings and everything from this one?
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• 131[00:47:56] <somiaj> warsoul: yes, and you have lots of options depending on how much you want to backup.
• 132[00:48:25] <somiaj> warsoul: I personally say backup peronsal data ($HOME) and configuation files in /etc then do a fresh install, as fresh installs are good now and then to ensure you only have installed the packages you need.
• 133[00:48:47] <somiaj> If you want to do some sort of clone, you can just copy your current install (cp -a or rsync -a) to the new drive, make it bootable and put it into the laptop.
• 134[00:48:50] <somiaj> You could also do something like this
• 135[00:48:55] <somiaj> !aptitude clone
• 136[00:48:55] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
• 137[00:49:06] <somiaj> The method you use depends on your needs and experience.
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• 141[00:50:20] <warsoul> ok
• 142[00:50:53] <warsoul> somiaj what desktop you use?
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• 146[00:51:42] <somiaj> warsoul: I don't use a desktop, I use just a window manager, fvwm
• 147[00:51:55] <warsoul> ok
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• 150[00:51:59] <annadane> !what to backup
• 151[00:51:59] <dpkg> Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/replaced-url
• 152[00:52:16] <annadane> adjust accordingly depending on needs
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• 154[00:52:36] <warsoul> i dont know witch use if xfce or kde
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• 157[00:53:17] <annadane> just think about what you've done on your system, like for me beyond my data that i have stored like personal files (all in home in my own particular case), maybe one or two /etc changes, /usr/local... i know my system so i know roughly where stuff goes
• 158[00:53:18] <somiaj> warsoul: personal choice. xfce will run faster and require less resources. kde plasma looks fancy, but you may need a modern pc with a decent gpu
• 159[00:53:28] <annadane> first order of priority would obviously be things like personal files
• 160[00:53:57] <warsoul> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Debian 10.1 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (1.10GHz) • Memory: 15.2 GiB Total (14.4 GiB Free) • Storage: 33.9 GB / 507.5 GB (473.6 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation NF7-S/NF7 @ Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 22m 22s
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• 163[00:54:28] <somiaj> yea, kde should run just fine on that, though even though I have a powerful system, I prefer the lighter desktops, save more of my resources for running the thing I'm using
• 164[00:55:05] <annadane> you can always readjust /etc configs... you *can't* get your files back if you lose them :P
• 165[00:55:06] <warsoul> im getting a better pc
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• 167[00:56:05] <warsoul> can i download a image that has xfce pre installed and the wifi drivers?
• 168[00:56:17] <warsoul> on this pc was a mission to install the wifi drivers :s
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• 172[00:56:41] <somiaj> !non-free imagages
• 173[00:56:45] <somiaj> !non-free images
• 174[00:56:50] <somiaj> !firmware images
• 175[00:56:50] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 176[00:57:12] <somiaj> finally, I got it. Those are the `unoffical' firmware images, they contain all the firmware for wifi cards, and you can select the desktop to download and install at the end of the install.
• 177[00:57:32] <somiaj> You will have to download most of the packages during the install, but that should be just fine for most.
• 178[00:57:34] <warsoul> replaced-url
• 179[00:57:41] <warsoul> this is the image i need to download then?
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• 181[00:58:00] <annadane> if you have internet access on your new computer and it's amd64, yes
• 182[00:58:14] <somiaj> Correct, provided your card is supported by the buster kernel and firmware, yes (and almost all cards should be)
• 183[00:58:35] <warsoul> internet access you mean wired?
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• 186[00:58:55] <annadane> or wireless... typically if you have wired internet you don't need non-free to at least get it installed
• 187[00:59:02] <annadane> typically laptops are recommended to use non free
• 188[00:59:10] <warsoul> is a desktop
• 189[00:59:36] <annadane> well, you want the wifi preinstalled so i guess still use the non free image
• 190[00:59:44] <warsoul> ok
• 191[00:59:49] <warsoul> thats the link i paste?
• 192[00:59:50] <warsoul> this one
• 193[00:59:54] <warsoul> replaced-url
• 194[00:59:55] <warsoul> ?
• 195[01:00:20] <annadane> yeah, you should be fine. netinst means net install, so have access to the internet, and amd64 is the amd64 architecture
• 196[01:00:47] <warsoul> yes
• 197[01:01:08] <warsoul> can i write that image on a usb stick right?
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• 200[01:01:11] <annadane> yes
• 201[01:01:17] <warsoul> ok
• 202[01:01:22] <annadane> use cp if on linux or win32diskimager if on windows
• 203[01:01:51] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 217[01:08:01] <warsoul> annadane, is their any full image with everything?
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• 220[01:08:36] <somiaj> The only unoffical image with the non-free firmware is the net-install
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• 222[01:08:51] <somiaj> The dvd images will contain everything, but no non-free packages (Such as firmare).
• 223[01:08:56] <warsoul> ok
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• 225[01:09:15] <warsoul> if i install that one i wont have wifi right after install
• 226[01:09:20] <somiaj> There might be debian live images with non-free firmare on it, and the live images also contain the debian-installer, though I suggest using the debian install images over the live images to install.
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• 228[01:09:47] <somiaj> correct, you'll have to use a wired connection or copy the firmware over manually. If you have a second usb drive you can supply the firmware to the installer
• 229[01:10:04] <warsoul> ill do the net install then
• 230[01:10:13] <somiaj> replaced-url
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• 250[01:36:08] <B|ack0p> hi again
• 251[01:36:17] <B|ack0p> i faced system freeze 3 times now
• 252[01:36:39] <B|ack0p> is it related with dmesg: replaced-url
• 253[01:36:39] <B|ack0p> ?
• 254[01:37:10] <B|ack0p> at line 708 there is an error like this:
• 255[01:37:13] <B|ack0p> [ 2.686047] [drm:intel_cpu_fifo_underrun_irq_handler [i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe B FIFO underrun
• 256[01:37:25] <B|ack0p> what is it about? does it cause the freeze?
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• 267[01:45:39] <somiaj> I don't think that in intself would cause a freeze.
• 268[01:45:42] *** Joins: pugfantus (~pugfantus@replaced-ip)
• 269[01:45:50] <somiaj> Though you might want ot install the intel microcode
• 270[01:45:52] <somiaj> !intel microcode
• 271[01:45:56] <somiaj> !microcode
• 272[01:45:57] <dpkg> Microcode are instructions/structures for implementing high-level machine code within processors. The Linux kernel can load updated microcode on most x86 processors. Microcode patches for Intel and AMD64 CPUs are packaged for Debian as intel-microcode and amd64-microcode respectively; installing the relevant package is recommended to ensure system stability. Ask me about <non-free sources>. replaced-url
• 273[01:46:02] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 274[01:46:47] <B|ack0p> somiaj, as i see kernel is 4.19
• 275[01:46:47] *** Joins: naos62 (~naos62@replaced-ip)
• 276[01:46:56] <B|ack0p> is it possible to update to 5.xx ?
• 277[01:47:08] <somiaj> I doubt that is gonna do much on your older hardware
• 278[01:47:21] <somiaj> though your biso could possibly be updated and could use newer microcode, hence the microcode instructions
• 279[01:47:31] <B|ack0p> i googled about that error and some ppl reported it has been disappeared after kernel update
• 280[01:47:45] <B|ack0p> i updated bios already
• 281[01:47:47] <somiaj> that error isn't near when the freeze is happening, I don't think it is related
• 282[01:48:02] <somiaj> ,kernels
• 283[01:48:03] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-rc5-686 (5.3~rc5-1~exp2); sid: 5.2.0-3-686 (5.2.17-1); bullseye: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster-backports: 5.2.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.2.9-2~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2+deb10u1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae
• 284[01:48:04] <judd> (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 285[01:48:07] <B|ack0p> so can freeze be related with graphics driver or firmware?
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• 287[01:48:33] <somiaj> 5.2 kernel is in buster-backports, but this kernel is not nearly as well tested as the 4.19 one in buster. I would stick to 4.19 as I don't see any reason why you need to upgrade
• 288[01:48:57] <somiaj> It could be the graphics card having issues, your card is a bit old, but not quite sure. I didn't see anything that said the problem is most likley this.
• 289[01:49:12] <B|ack0p> :/
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• 292[01:51:03] <B|ack0p> installing now intel-microcode
• 293[01:52:43] <B|ack0p> somiaj, i got some warnings while installing
• 294[01:52:45] <B|ack0p> replaced-url
• 295[01:52:50] <B|ack0p> possible missing firmwares
• 296[01:53:35] <somiaj> I think you fixed that by intalling the firmware for the wifi card when you were here eariler
• 297[01:54:14] <somiaj> it might be just xorg is freezing (not your systme). I sometimes install an ssh server, and then if it freezes, try to ssh to my machine from another one on the network, if you can still ssh into the system, the kernel isn't freezing it is xorg.
• 298[01:54:27] <B|ack0p> i have another laptop same model it doesnt have this problem
• 299[01:54:36] <B|ack0p> it is higher specs than this one
• 300[01:54:52] <B|ack0p> this one is x61s with L7500 cpu other is X61 with T7500 cpu
• 301[01:54:57] <B|ack0p> chipset and graphics are same
• 302[01:55:13] <somiaj> maybe that machine has a hardware problem, but I would first figure out if it is kernel or xorg freezing
• 303[01:55:30] <B|ack0p> it freezed in Ubuntu too :?
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• 305[01:55:31] <B|ack0p> :/
• 306[01:55:45] <B|ack0p> i hope it is not hardware problem
• 307[01:56:23] <B|ack0p> somiaj, when it freezes i cant control mouse
• 308[01:56:27] <B|ack0p> everything freezes
• 309[01:56:30] <B|ack0p> nothing works
• 310[01:56:41] <B|ack0p> then i have to press power button to force it shut down
• 311[01:56:51] <somiaj> xorg will take out computer and mouse, that dosn't mean your system is fully frozen
• 312[01:57:04] <somiaj> hence why I suggested using ssh, to double check the whole system is freezing vs just xorg.
• 313[01:57:09] <B|ack0p> can i use something else instead of xorg?
• 314[01:57:27] <B|ack0p> i dont know how to ssh
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• 318[01:58:27] <B|ack0p> i dont know if it helps but freezes happened while i was on Firefox watching Netflix
• 319[01:59:00] <B|ack0p> in Ubuntu freeze happened many times randomly not only firefox
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• 323[02:00:18] <B|ack0p> do you think harddisk causes freeze? it has used kingston SSD 60gb
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• 325[02:00:32] <B|ack0p> i dont know condition maybe it is damaged or something bad
• 326[02:00:53] <B|ack0p> i bought the laptop second hand with the ssd inside
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• 329[02:01:05] <B|ack0p> last week or so
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• 337[02:03:40] <somiaj> B|ack0p: run a memory tester
• 338[02:03:42] <somiaj> !memtest86
• 339[02:03:43] <dpkg> To test a computer's memory subsystem for faults, use either: memtest86 / memtest86+ (thorough real-mode testers) or memtester (userspace utility), all packaged for Debian. memtest86+ is included in <debian live> CD/DVD images. replaced-url
• 340[02:03:48] <somiaj> sometimes random freezes are just bad memory
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• 345[02:05:21] <LtL> B|ack0p: I would test the memory. install memtest86+
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• 347[02:06:48] <B|ack0p> somiaj, LtL, doesnt debian have memtest installed in grub?
• 348[02:07:25] <LtL> B|ack0p: if its in the grub screen options, then yes.
• 349[02:07:44] <B|ack0p> LtL, grub has Advanced options only
• 350[02:07:51] <B|ack0p> i didnt see memtest in the list
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• 352[02:07:57] <B|ack0p> can i install on grub?
• 353[02:08:19] <B|ack0p> another thing somiaj how many times should i run the test? 1 pass enough or more than 1 pass?
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• 355[02:09:00] <LtL> B|ack0p: dpkg -l |grep memtest86+ -or- memtest86 to see if its installed
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• 358[02:10:53] <B|ack0p> LtL, it didnt do anything
• 359[02:10:58] <B|ack0p> so not installed probably
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• 366[02:11:53] <LtL> B|ack0p: install memtest86+ i beleive it will run automatically after you boot, be prepared for it to take hours.
• 367[02:11:56] <warsoul> whats the command to install kde plasma?
• 368[02:12:35] <B|ack0p> LtL, how many times should i run test? 1 pass ok ?
• 369[02:12:49] <LtL> warsoul: kde-plasma-desktop
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• 372[02:13:11] <LtL> B|ack0p: i would think 1 pass will do.
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• 374[02:13:51] <warsoul> LtL you use kde?
• 375[02:13:54] <LtL> err *believe that was.
• 376[02:14:07] <LtL> warsoul: no,not lately
• 377[02:14:13] <warsoul> what you use?
• 378[02:14:31] <LtL> gnome
• 379[02:14:42] <warsoul> gnome looks boring lol
• 380[02:14:54] <LtL> not when tweaked
• 381[02:15:00] <warsoul> lol
• 382[02:15:07] <warsoul> can i see a screenshot?
• 383[02:15:09] <warsoul> to see
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• 385[02:15:30] <annadane> warsoul, replaced-url
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• 388[02:16:17] <B|ack0p> ok installed memtest
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• 391[02:16:35] <B|ack0p> i still dont think it is a memory problem
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• 393[02:16:50] <LtL> replaced-url
• 394[02:16:59] <B|ack0p> i hope it is memory instead of motherboard/chipset because i can replace them
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• 396[02:17:24] <B|ack0p> or just driver firmware or kernel problem which can be fixeble
• 397[02:17:36] <B|ack0p> ok see ya later or tomorrow
• 398[02:17:50] <B|ack0p> somiaj and LtL thx
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• 400[02:18:39] <inari> sometimes I see files like filename-c and filename-l show up, always in conjunction with changing permissions of the original file filename. where does the filename-c and -l arise from?
• 401[02:19:18] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 402[02:19:44] <inari> i have a feeling it has to do with write operations to an existing file where there is no write permission?
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• 415[02:28:26] <dudebr> my old pc got fryed in the power supply, i goona do a surgery to reborn the frankenstein tomorrow
• 416[02:29:24] <warsoul> dudebr good luck brother! :P
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• 418[02:32:11] <dudebr> nevertheless with 8 years of duty still is a good spec pc
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• 426[02:42:15] <dudebr> to see how hardware sick i am, about 6 years ago i purchased 3 hd 3TB each and a dedicated raid controller... never used 1% of space... now i learned that i ca live with 200GB easy
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• 433[02:46:50] <dudebr> the pc got sick and i got stuck in an spare netbook that worth a penny
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• 436[02:47:59] <dudebr> ironies of life
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• 440[02:51:12] <bigMouthCommie> so i assume that there must be some default behavior for mounting a dvd in deb10 xfce. i want to assign it to handbrake. any tips?
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• 442[02:52:27] <ksk> bigMouthCommie: on a desktop systems? look into its options and settings..
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• 469[03:07:43] <warsoul> how i delete kde-plasma-desktop?
• 470[03:08:10] <ksk> "sudo apt-get remove $package"
• 471[03:08:51] <ksk> do you have another desktop installed, and best configured to be started from your session manager already?
• 472[03:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1520
• 473[03:09:01] <ksk> warsoul: ^
• 474[03:09:02] <warsoul> yes
• 475[03:09:40] <ksk> eh, I think the more end-user command nowadays is rather "apt remove $package" - its more new and shiny!
• 476[03:10:08] <ksk> (you need superuser/sudo again, of course)
• 477[03:10:11] <ksk> mst
• 478[03:10:37] <ksk> eh, ignore that.
• 479[03:11:48] <warsoul> plasma is appering
• 480[03:11:56] <warsoul> when i log out and log back in
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• 482[03:14:29] <bigMouthCommie> ksk frankly, i run it headless
• 483[03:14:37] *** Quits: dalao (~dalao@replaced-ip) (Quit: dalao)
• 484[03:14:44] <bigMouthCommie> i can vnc in but, like, i dont wanna lol
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• 486[03:15:20] <bigMouthCommie> i dont need to involve xfce if that complicates it
• 487[03:15:35] <warsoul> how i delete kde
• 488[03:15:35] *** Joins: Ulrar (~Ulrar@replaced-ip)
• 489[03:17:16] <ksk> bigMouthCommie: soo, you have a computer, where you putin a dvd, but that computer has no monitor or dekstop running?
• 490[03:18:08] <ksk> warsoul: eh?
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• 498[03:23:41] <rwp> Instead of "remove" for a desktop I would "purge" so that the config files go and the package is entirely removed. Otherwise conffiles and the package olding them remain behind.
• 499[03:24:39] <LtL> probably too late for that... but worth a try
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• 511[03:34:19] <warsoul> i see plasma when i log in
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• 518[03:37:07] <dudebr> with so many resources and compilers still working, be able to reinstall the apt should be a concern in the developers or admins schedule
• 519[03:38:21] <dudebr> when we come to a production system, not mine, and someone say, ...well reinstall ALL !
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• 526[03:44:57] <cdchapm2> hello all
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• 535[03:51:31] <warsoul> how i uninstall kde at all?
• 536[03:51:40] <LtL> warsoul: do you have another DE installed?
• 537[03:52:37] <warsoul> yes
• 538[03:52:40] <warsoul> xfce
• 539[03:53:04] <LtL> warsoul: sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager /* choose the DE you want */ then uninstall kde remnants.
• 540[03:53:32] <warsoul> ok
• 541[03:53:37] <warsoul> how i uninstall kde?
• 542[03:53:49] <LtL> warsoul: very carefully
• 543[03:54:08] <LtL> you installed a minimal meta-package
• 544[03:54:31] <warsoul> i typed sudo apt-get install kde-plasma-desktop
• 545[03:55:07] <LtL> you should have purged but fix the default DE first
• 546[03:55:45] <warsoul> sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager xfce
• 547[03:55:45] <warsoul> update-alternatives: error: unknown argument 'xfce'
• 548[03:56:10] <LtL> xfce4 probably
• 549[03:56:24] <bigMouthCommie> ksk, right. well... xfce does come up as part of the boot process but the monitor has never been attached to this install. i run vnc when there are things i want to do with a gui on the machine
• 550[03:56:30] <LtL> wait for it to prompt you
• 551[03:56:31] <warsoul> update-alternatives: error: unknown argument 'xfce4'
• 552[03:57:08] <LtL> warsoul: sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager xfce4 IS NOT what i said
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• 554[03:57:27] <LtL> warsoul: sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager [hit enter]
• 555[03:57:33] <karlpinc> dudebr: See the "apt-clone" and "aptitude clone" factoids.
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• 557[03:58:20] <warsoul> 2 /usr/bin/startkde 40 manual mode
• 558[03:58:20] <warsoul> 3 /usr/bin/startxfce4 50 manual mode
• 559[03:58:28] <warsoul> 2 or 3?
• 560[03:58:38] <LtL> chosse uh 3 ?
• 561[03:58:48] <dudebr> karlpinc: ok
• 562[03:58:50] <LtL> *choose
• 563[03:59:00] <warsoul> 3 /usr/bin/startxfce4 50 manual mode
• 564[03:59:00] <warsoul> 4 /usr/bin/xfce4-session 40 manual mode
• 565[03:59:04] <warsoul> sorry 3 or 4?
• 566[03:59:25] <LtL> 3
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• 568[03:59:35] <warsoul> done
• 569[03:59:39] <warsoul> whats next?
• 570[03:59:45] <LtL> that should start X
• 571[03:59:56] <warsoul> restart?
• 572[03:59:57] <LtL> logout or reboot
• 573[04:00:00] <warsoul> ok
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• 575[04:02:45] <warsoul> done
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• 577[04:02:59] <LtL> warsoul: and?
• 578[04:03:01] <warsoul> LtL now how i detele cinnamon and kde from my pc
• 579[04:03:03] <warsoul> at all
• 580[04:04:18] <LtL> dpkg -l |grep task* /* if a task-cinnamon or task-kde shows up apt purge it
• 581[04:04:19] <dpkg> No packages found matching |grep task* /* if a task-cinnamon or task-kde shows up apt purge it
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• 584[04:05:55] <LtL> dpkg: okay!
• 585[04:05:55] <dpkg> Don't talk back to me or you're going to be sorry!
• 586[04:06:06] <warsoul> dont see anything there
• 587[04:06:18] <warsoul> but i saw it when i selected xfce4 loggin in
• 588[04:07:02] <LtL> saw what?
• 589[04:07:08] <warsoul> cinnamon
• 590[04:07:09] <warsoul> and kde
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• 592[04:08:08] <LtL> warsoul: then you installed meta-pacckages, kde plasma was for sure, looks like xfce is too. you'll have to surgically remove those very carefully or leave them
• 593[04:08:09] <karlpinc> warsoul: That means you didn't install the tasks, but installed individual packages.
• 594[04:08:25] <LtL> er cinnamon rather
• 595[04:08:54] <warsoul> ok
• 596[04:08:56] <karlpinc> warsoul: You may want to leave various kde applications/tools/etc.
• 597[04:09:19] <warsoul> im on xfce and im seeing kde apps
• 598[04:09:21] <warsoul> :s
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• 600[04:09:36] <karlpinc> warsoul: The apt logs might help you.
• 601[04:09:38] <LtL> warsoul: a dpkg -l |grep kde|cinnamon /* may show those packages then remove them */
• 602[04:10:05] <karlpinc> warsoul: Nothing wrong with having kde apps running on any desktop, if you want them.
• 603[04:10:37] <LtL> warsoul: i'd keep them for now
• 604[04:11:06] <warsoul> i was trying to choose between kde or xfce
• 605[04:12:01] <LtL> err the second pipe after grep won't work btw warsoul sorry.
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• 611[04:12:45] <warsoul> LtL i just notice it
• 612[04:12:46] <warsoul> lol
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• 616[04:14:12] <LtL> warsoul: you can have all three if you want. full DE's start with task-kde-desktop et cetera iirc
• 617[04:14:43] <warsoul> full DE's start with task-kde-desktop et cetera iirc
• 618[04:14:47] <warsoul> didnt understand that part
• 619[04:16:36] <LtL> warsoul: task-kde* task-xfce4* task-whatever-desktop and so on
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• 621[04:17:08] <warsoul> ok
• 622[04:17:17] <warsoul> LtL you use gnome you told me right?
• 623[04:17:26] <LtL> warsoul: yes
• 624[04:18:03] <LtL> which woud be task-gnome-desktop
• 625[04:18:32] <warsoul> and that is for what? sorry
• 626[04:19:15] <LtL> a full gnome DE
• 627[04:19:35] <warsoul> thats for install?
• 628[04:20:46] <LtL> warsoul: yes, type '$ dpkg -l task*' just to see whats available
• 629[04:22:06] <LtL> all the task-* DE's should show up with that. no harm.
• 630[04:22:23] <warsoul> replaced-url
• 631[04:22:29] <LtL> skip the $
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• 633[04:23:16] <LtL> i don't know how you get that
• 634[04:23:38] <warsoul> what you mean?
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• 637[04:24:29] <LtL> My results, replaced-url
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• 639[04:25:03] <LtL> did you use the quotes or something weird?
• 640[04:26:06] <LtL> what exactly did you type warsoul ?
• 641[04:27:37] <LtL> warsoul: dude, i've gotta bounce. you'll figure it out
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• 643[04:28:01] <warsoul> i type
• 644[04:28:02] <warsoul> this
• 645[04:28:13] <mutante> i have MATE desktop installed. i would like to add gnome but then have an option to pick between them at each login. how could i do that? i remember using "xdm" ?
• 646[04:28:15] <warsoul> dpkg -l task* | nc termbin.com 9999
• 647[04:28:15] <dpkg> ii task* | nc termbin.com 9999 2.3-11.2 ultra s3kr1t #debian package
• 648[04:29:58] <LtL> warsoul: crazy how happens, what does 'apt show task-xfce4-desktop' show
• 649[04:30:33] <LtL> make that xfce
• 650[04:31:19] <warsoul> apt show task-xfce4-desktop
• 651[04:31:19] <warsoul> N: Unable to locate package task-xfce4-desktop
• 652[04:31:27] <LtL> should say installed right? drop the 4
• 653[04:31:58] <warsoul> replaced-url
• 654[04:32:25] <LtL> i don't unde4rstand why the regular desktops didn't show in the first paste
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• 656[04:33:28] <LtL> ok, thats good
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• 659[04:33:58] <LtL> i really have to go warsoul don't mean to leave you hanging.
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• 664[04:34:58] <LtL> mutante: iirc theres a dropdown menu to choose DE's
• 665[04:35:27] <LtL> /me flies
• 666[04:35:50] <warsoul> LtL ok brother thanks
• 667[04:36:33] <mutante> LtL: i am just wondering itf that will showup by itself if i just install another one.. i will see soon
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• 669[04:37:11] <mutante> where soon is relative because i am pulling half a gig of packages through my phone hotspot :)
• 670[04:37:19] <karlpinc> mutante: Various desktops can show up in the dm and you can choose when you login, but this depends on the dm.
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• 672[04:38:15] <mutante> the problem starts that there is neither xdm nor gdm nor kdm installed
• 673[04:38:22] <mutante> and i dont remember other ones
• 674[04:38:53] <mutante> as far as i remember itused ot be xdm years ago
• 675[04:39:02] <karlpinc> mutante: Does not matter. If the dm gives you a choice then you'll automatically get whatever choices are available. If it does not then you can try a different dm.
• 676[04:39:20] <mutante> ok, i will just see what happens after gnome installed is finished eventually
• 677[04:39:22] <mutante> thanks karlpinc
• 678[04:39:57] <mutante> ah, lightdm i guess
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• 682[04:42:23] <LtL> sorry i have to go, shoulder hurts too bad to type. hasta manana
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• 693[04:51:13] <mutante> aha, preconfig of packages now wants me to pick between gdm3 and lightdm. makes sense
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• 704[05:09:34] <mutante> still no sound. card in lscpi. card in /proc/asound/card0/id aplay can play wave files.. just .. the only output device is a dummy device and in GUI it shows it as disabled
• 705[05:09:57] <mutante> aplay actuallys says "Playing WAVE" so it's not that .. hrmm
• 706[05:11:24] <mutante> also i see in dmesg how it uses snd_hda_intel ..
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• 716[05:15:04] <mutante> i can also select the card in alsamixer. but still here nothing .. man
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• 765[05:39:36] <mutante> so i can use "pacmd set-card-profile .. output::hdmi-stereo". that temporarily enables it so in GUI it doesn't show as disabled. as soon as i click profile it is back to off though. and the real problem is everything is playing but all outputs are HDMI and there is no "output:analog-stereo". so like others i find in Google "suddenly all just HDMI"
• 766[05:39:55] <mutante> No such profile: output:analog-stereo
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• 777[05:44:30] <diogenes_> mutante, you could also ask in /j #pulseaudio
• 778[05:45:14] <mutante> diogenes_: ok, thanks
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• 904[07:47:01] <Guest40454> hey guys any way to install leafpad in Buster ?
• 905[07:47:19] *** Joins: DebTest (~user@replaced-ip)
• 906[07:47:25] <DebTest> Hello
• 907[07:47:36] <DebTest> I'm wondering how stable debian testing is?
• 908[07:48:19] <DebTest> I like the stability of Debian Stable, but the software is outdated in a while. Therefore I want to look into testing.
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• 911[07:52:50] <DebTest> Anyone?
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• 913[07:53:15] <annadane> DebTest, so it's up to you to be intelligent, keep backups of your files, and not remove masses of packages when apt informs you that it will because of some transition... but various users have found testing or unstable to be quite stable
• 914[07:53:43] <annadane> testing will be frozen when it freezes in the months just before a new stable
• 915[07:54:01] <DebTest> When frozen it doesnt get updates temporary or permanent?
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• 917[07:54:17] <annadane> it stops receiving new versions of packages, for the most part
• 918[07:54:26] <annadane> it goes in stages
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• 922[07:54:34] <annadane> transition freeze, soft freeze, hard freeze, stable release
• 923[07:54:39] <annadane> then a bunch of new packages flood into testing
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• 926[07:55:49] <DebTest> Then I would have to upgrade to testing again from the current debian "stable"?
• 927[07:55:59] <annadane> that depends on what's in your sources.list
• 928[07:56:11] <DebTest> If source is updated to testing?
• 929[07:56:15] <annadane> if you go on testing now, which is bullseye, and put "bullseye" in your sources.list, it will track bullseye only
• 930[07:56:20] <DebTest> Haven't got debian yet.
• 931[07:56:24] <annadane> if you put "testing" it will track whatever the current testing is
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• 933[07:56:38] <DebTest> Ah, got that.
• 934[07:56:45] <DebTest> What about arch vs debian testing?
• 935[07:56:59] <annadane> which is why for instance users using debian stable - buster currently - are encouraged to use 'buster' so they don't get nasty surprises when 'stable' becomes 'bullseye'
• 936[07:57:08] <annadane> i haven't used arch, so i can't really comment
• 937[07:57:40] <DebTest> okay, thanks for the help.
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• 940[07:58:20] <DebTest> I've used several distros, but not really experienced. I always seem to come back to deb based distros. But I like the rolling release. So I dont need to upgrade every time
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• 942[07:58:47] <DebTest> Is difficult to find a stable debian based with lots of packages and rolling release
• 943[07:58:56] <annadane> well, there is mx linux
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• 945[07:59:11] <annadane> which i don't know much about but AFAIK it's rolling with a stable base? i'm not certain
• 946[07:59:31] <annadane> but yeah i doubt testing will break on you that often
• 947[07:59:32] <DebTest> MX is popular on distrowatch for the moment.
• 948[07:59:51] <DebTest> So testing would be the go to for me.
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• 950[08:00:01] <annadane> people have run testing or even unstable happily, just be intelligent about it
• 951[08:00:28] <annadane> and if you do run into problems, file bug reports, it helps you and us
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• 953[08:00:48] <DebTest> Does debian really have over 100k packages available? :P
• 954[08:01:04] <annadane> i don't think it's quite that much, i think it's closer to 50k
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• 956[08:02:07] <DebTest> Thanks for the help
• 957[08:02:34] <annadane> This new release of Debian again comes with a lot more software than its predecessor stretch; the distribution includes over 13370 new packages, for a total of over 57703 packages. replaced-url
• 958[08:03:00] <DebTest> Ah, there is the number :)
• 959[08:03:33] <DebTest> Can I install ubuntu packages in debian? Or would that be a frankedebian as some would call it?
• 960[08:04:05] <annadane> yep, frankendebian
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• 963[08:04:15] <annadane> you can perhaps compile those from source, though
• 964[08:04:20] <DebTest> Yeah, that's not what I would want :P
• 965[08:04:34] <DebTest> Compiling with dpkg?
• 966[08:04:37] <annadane> replaced-url
• 967[08:04:47] <annadane> no, compile with make and other such tools
• 968[08:05:19] <annadane> replaced-url
• 969[08:05:57] <annadane> typical way of compiling software in unix is ./configure, make, make install... there are exceptions but that's a very broad overview
• 970[08:06:18] <DebTest> Ah thanks again. What about snaps for more updated packages in stable?
• 971[08:06:24] <annadane> /usr/local is typically the goto for software like that, or /opt, or the user's home directory
• 972[08:06:37] <annadane> (for /usr/local, see the stow package which may help)
• 973[08:06:42] <annadane> people do use snaps, yes
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• 976[08:07:09] <annadane> snaps/flatpaks/appimages
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• 978[08:07:26] <DebTest> I'll see what I can make from debian testing. Thanks.
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• 982[08:08:58] <mzs85> I am not sure if this is the right channel to ask this question, but why is replaced-url
• 983[08:09:23] <mzs85> I mean everything else in my sources file is under https
• 984[08:09:25] <mzs85> so..
• 985[08:09:32] <annadane> i believe if you want to use https in your sources.list you need apt-transport-https package
• 986[08:09:37] <annadane> i'm not certain on that
• 987[08:09:48] <annadane> or actually i think in buster it's supported without that?
• 988[08:09:54] <annadane> i think before buster you needed that
• 989[08:10:08] <mzs85> I do have it, however there are certificate issues with that url, try opening that in a browser and see
• 990[08:10:20] <mzs85> I am on buster..
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• 992[08:10:54] <annadane> well, for me it opens in a browser fine... anyway, i'm uncertain how to answer, you can either wait for someone else to answer or perhaps try #debian-mirrors on irc.oftc.net
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• 994[08:11:18] <mzs85> https actually helped me at my work place where they were restricting keywords like "torrent" so the installation was failing.
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• 997[08:11:24] <mzs85> ok
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• 1001[08:12:46] <DebTest> gtg
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• 1009[08:16:13] <mzs85> Does anyone hangout in #debian-mirrors? There is only me. :?
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• 1013[08:16:51] <annadane> mzs85, irc.oftc.net, i said
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• 1015[08:18:58] <mzs85> oops, I missed it, thanks annadane I see them.
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• 1055[08:44:46] <jhutchins> mzs85: https is pretty worthless for file transfers. The only reason some of the mirrors support it is "https everywhere".
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• 1058[08:45:16] <jhutchins> mzs85: Functionally it provides no significant security and significant overhead.
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• 1062[08:48:48] <mzs85> jhutchins perhaps you missed the other part, it does help one avoid the web content filtering, or in places where there is restrictive filtering and not to mention user's privacy, I guess these points fit into Debian's philosophy.
• 1063[08:49:29] <mzs85> this was how it helped me to get the debian installer work, otherwise it was failing due to content filtering
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• 1065[08:50:31] <mzs85> and iirc, cloudflare or some had published the overhead due to ssl and that is not that significant compared to the benefits we get.
• 1066[08:51:46] <jhutchins> Uh huh. Keep that tinfoil hat tight.
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• 1074[09:01:55] <mzs85> jhutchins I am sorry sir, there is no tinfoiling there, maybe you need to get some common sense
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• 1076[09:02:34] <annadane> jhutchins, just for my own edification though i think as of buster https on every sources.list entry works? in stretch or earlier you'd need apt-transport-https?
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• 1084[09:07:31] <mzs85> annadane it won't work with security.debian repo, and you would need apt-transport-https package preinstalled. This was my experience with buster, it was similar with stretch.
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• 1099[09:13:37] <annadane> mzs85, doesn't work without transport https or doesn't work at all period?
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• 1107[09:15:41] <mzs85> security.debian.org in source.list does not work at all, it throws cert errors, others work with the transport package.
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• 1109[09:16:50] <mzs85> transport package is not installed by default in stock xfce 1 cd iso, I had to install the minimal base then install the transport package and then the desktop meta packages.
• 1110[09:16:53] <jelly> buster has a dummy apt-transport-https package and you don't need it, https support is present in apt itself
• 1111[09:17:29] <zmitya> hi all
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• 1113[09:17:48] <zmitya> guys, I have a buster wher I can't get nf_conntrack_ftp working for some reason
• 1114[09:17:54] <jelly> mzs85: "transitional" packages typically have no content at all
• 1115[09:17:58] <mzs85> jelly, maybe, I did not change the urls in source.list and try with stock apt..
• 1116[09:17:59] <jelly> ,i apt-transport-https
• 1117[09:18:01] <judd> Package apt-transport-https (oldlibs, optional) in buster/amd64: transitional package for https support. Version: 1.8.2; Size: 145.4k; Installed: 152k
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• 1127[09:20:18] <mzs85> oh good, jelly, I can then remove that safely, nice.
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• 1129[09:21:41] <annadane> yep if you apt show a transitional package it'll typically say "this is a transitional package, it's safe to remove"
• 1130[09:21:49] <zmitya> this is my fw script in nutshell:
• 1131[09:21:52] <zmitya> replaced-url
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• 1134[09:22:22] <zmitya> what did I miss to get nf_conntrack_ftp working ?
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• 1143[09:25:36] <BCMM> jelly: minor quibble: transitional packages tend to install a few files in /usr/share/doc. but no *functional* content.
• 1144[09:27:56] <jelly> BCMM: correct. I often omit details that are unimportant for a user's query
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• 1147[09:30:53] <mzs85> annadane and whoever is interested, I got the following response in #debian-mirrors:
• 1148[09:30:55] <mzs85> [12:53] <pabs> it never has supported https and one of our CDN providers (Fastly) doesn't support https[12:54] <pabs> Fastly is working on it though, they have https beta[12:55] <pabs> I think if you try replaced-url
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• 1154[09:35:18] <annadane> oh interesting
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• 1162[09:38:51] <mzs85> Earlier my belief was that ssl was unnecessary as the apt/dpkg does signatures, but until I started working in a restrictive network. Without this I would be forced to use ubuntu(or something that gets installed) in such a network, accessibility.
• 1163[09:39:44] <mzs85> Thinking how this adds value(debian becomes accessible to its users) is common sense.
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• 1165[09:41:37] <BCMM> mzs85: how does it help on a "restrictive network"? are they strictly filtering URLs on http but just ignoring the fact that https is everywhere these days?
• 1166[09:41:42] <jelly> on the other hand it's not Debian's primary goal to cater work around network breakage
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• 1168[09:42:03] <jelly> s/cater //
• 1169[09:42:50] <jelly> mzs85: we also have a restricted network at work, and our networking people specifically enable access to standard debian repos.
• 1170[09:43:15] <jelly> talk to your network admin.
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• 1174[09:45:01] <mzs85> BCMM yes, to intercept https they need to jump some hoops, http on the other hand is plain text and enabled by default in most content filtering solutions.
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• 1176[09:45:36] <mzs85> this is not broken network, this is deliberate attempt to restrict certain things
• 1177[09:45:48] <BCMM> heh, kind of content filtering approach from 15 years ago
• 1178[09:46:14] <jelly> mzs85: it's breakage, be it intentional or not
• 1179[09:46:16] <mzs85> yep, there are people who think that is good enough, instead of use proper recursive dns setup
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• 1181[09:47:10] <mzs85> how is enabling https making it sound like routing through tor? jelly ?
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• 1183[09:47:57] <jelly> mzs85: sorry, can you rephrase, English is not my first language
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• 1187[09:49:52] <BCMM> mzs85: excuse me if this isn't relevant to your situation as i don't know anything about your relationship with the network administrators. wouldn't the correct approach be to request that debian mirrors are taken off the block list? some places make a big fuss about circumventing their filters, even if you do it for a good reason
• 1188[09:49:52] <mzs85> I mean the network is fine/reliable, but it is people that are putting in place restrictions. If now https is not filtered as you will need to intercept it then using https makes sense.
• 1189[09:50:21] <mzs85> debian mirrors are not the problem, the keywords are..
• 1190[09:51:02] <BCMM> right, but aren't you still knowingly circumventing the keyword filter by using https?
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• 1192[09:51:46] <mzs85> they are trying to block sites with torrents and/or files .torrent, how am I accessing anything prohibited?
• 1193[09:51:47] <BCMM> i mean, some places will be cool about that, just make sure you've thought about whether your place is
• 1194[09:51:56] <mzs85> hmm, I know
• 1195[09:51:58] <mzs85> :)
• 1196[09:52:11] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ()
• 1197[09:52:53] <jelly> the correct approach is talk to your network admin and fix bugs in the policy preventing allowed usage of specific http sites
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• 1200[09:53:51] <mzs85> ok, will do it at the appropriate time, iirc, when I finally checked the installer logs after multiple failures, I realized it was due to some libtorrent package. Till then I checked the integrity of the medium.
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• 1202[09:54:18] <jelly> I don't think usage of debian repos involves any URLs ending in .torrent or using the torrent protocol
• 1203[09:54:22] <mzs85> I was suspecting that the download was corrupt or the hardware was filing
• 1204[09:54:26] <mzs85> failing*
• 1205[09:54:27] <BCMM> mzs85: i mean in some organisations, the worst case is that word gets to somebody important with 0 technical knowledge that somebody was caught trying to circumvent the companies network security and they look at it all wrong
• 1206[09:55:52] <mzs85> yeah, that is why I am waiting for the right opportunity, right now this is a windows shop where I will be owning things that are getting implemented, starting with my PC running GNU/Linux.
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• 1210[09:56:47] <mzs85> otherwise it will kickstart the "approval" cycle and other timetaking things
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• 1213[09:58:25] <annadane> "are you HACKING THE COMPANY NETWORK?" "yeah but it's ok! just trying to install krita"
• 1214[09:58:48] <annadane> sorry, it's 4 AM and i'm bored and should be asleep
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• 1233[10:08:28] <mzs85> Is "hacking" even the correct term?
• 1234[10:08:32] <mzs85> :)
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• 1238[10:09:35] <annadane> i don't even know the word for malicious attempting to gain unauthorized access
• 1239[10:09:43] <annadane> 'hacking' strictly speaking is editing code
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• 1246[10:12:14] <mzs85> well I leave to you guys, to continue the debate, this is/was not malicious, it was to get the thing installed and get moving..
• 1247[10:13:10] <mzs85> if it were to downloading something that was prohibited then it is different case.
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• 1253[10:16:09] <BCMM> mzs85: i'm not claiming it's malicious - i'm saying that you should consider whether it will be *perceived* as malicious
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• 1257[10:17:09] <mzs85> BCMM that is the key, I concur with that one. Whereas here it seemed like a bikeshedding was in progress..
• 1258[10:17:10] <BCMM> there's not much point debating it here - we don't know your admins. if your organisation is basically sane about these things, well, lucky you! not every organisation is!
• 1259[10:17:18] <mzs85> :)
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• 1266[10:20:31] <Haohmaru> h4x0rz
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• 1269[10:21:58] <annadane> 'cracking', i guess. but that sounds stupid
• 1270[10:22:21] <Haohmaru> cr4x0rz
• 1271[10:22:56] <J_C> sounds like a drug cartel..
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• 1275[10:23:52] <borw3> will debian do the background snaps installation when user does apt-get like in recent Ubuntu releases?
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• 1299[10:33:10] <BCMM> borw3: what does ubuntu do? automatically replace dpkg packages with snap ones during ordinary updates?
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• 1307[10:34:23] <borw3> BCMM, for example in this Ubuntu 19.04+, when you do, apt-get install chromium, it gets a deb file, of which just runs the installation of chromium as a snap
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• 1310[10:34:44] <BCMM> no, debian won't do that. it doesn't even require that snapd is installed.
• 1311[10:35:00] <BCMM> debian supports snap. ubuntu heavily pushes snap.
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• 1313[10:35:25] <ratrace> but this sneaky apt -> snap replacement gets the cake.
• 1314[10:35:37] <ratrace> chromium and I think LXD too.
• 1315[10:36:30] <annadane> i know snap is known to install stuff in non standard locations, i wonder if debian patches that
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• 1319[10:36:44] <annadane> also, this kind of thing is why i won't recommend ubuntu to a new linux user
• 1320[10:37:13] <ratrace> annadane: it doesn't and there aren't non-standard locations. snaps are loopback mounted image files
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• 1322[10:37:27] <annadane> my mistake, then
• 1323[10:37:28] <ratrace> squashfs methinks
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• 1326[10:38:24] <ratrace> it's clear that ubuntu is no longer really debian based, other than it using .deb format for the base system and leaving some defaults from debian there.
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• 1329[10:38:54] <ratrace> their goal is to become a minimal base OS and push as much end-user software to snaps.
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• 1331[10:39:20] <borw3> Like fedora silverblue?
• 1332[10:39:23] <BCMM> ubuntu makes more sense if you assume that canonical really really wants to control a vital piece of infrastructure that other distros use (like redhat does, for example)
• 1333[10:39:31] <BCMM> upstart, mir, snap...
• 1334[10:39:57] <ratrace> borw3: sorry, I don't know what silverblue does exactly.
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• 1337[10:41:14] <annadane> "debian is too complicated" well debian puts a lot of effort into making software that works, you don't have to update it often... seems like a good "newbie" distro to me
• 1338[10:41:52] <borw3> Any good looking debian distro? and no not MX
• 1339[10:42:18] <jelly> borw3: debian with kde or mate and a decent theme
• 1340[10:42:29] <ratrace> annadane: it is. every package comes with a sane default out of the box, services autostart and things are designed to just work upon installation in most cases.
• 1341[10:42:54] <jelly> borw3: the looks can be changed quite a bit in most desktop environments
• 1342[10:43:09] <annadane> basically anything can be made to look good looking
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• 1345[10:43:35] <annadane> also it's quite subjective what that actually is
• 1346[10:44:08] <borw3> I think we can all agree Debian xfce is ugly
• 1347[10:44:41] <annadane> by default... it's okay, but i know what you mean. i use xfce due to its functionality and have managed to edit it to make it look attractive to me
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• 1349[10:45:24] <annadane> at least as of buster the default wallpaper is no longer bright green
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• 1354[10:45:48] <ratrace> unix porn reddit has some awesomely fabulous screenies, for large variety of DEs and WMs, so indeed one can make anything look very, very nice.
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• 1357[10:46:23] <ratrace> I particularly like the non-standard designs that break away from boring decades old layouts of KDE and GNOME
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• 1359[10:47:37] <borw3> Gnome is outdated? the way it looks like some android/iphone thing when selecting apps
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• 1364[10:48:20] <ratrace> borw3: it's at least a decade old by now :)
• 1365[10:48:26] <ratrace> yes, you're old ;)I
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• 1367[10:49:00] <astra> debian is too complicated? lol?
• 1368[10:49:04] <borw3> LOL!
• 1369[10:49:28] <annadane> well, you hear that kind of thing. "i'd recommend ubuntu, debian requires more setup..." like... not really
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• 1375[10:49:54] <annadane> ubuntu is actively known to break sometimes, debian isn't
• 1376[10:50:13] <astra> ubuntu is literally made for ppl that can't configure a system properly
• 1377[10:50:34] <Haohmaru> my stomach gets into a knot when the only search results for something are from askubuntu x_x
• 1378[10:50:41] <astra> ^^
• 1379[10:50:43] <astra> same
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• 1381[10:51:12] <ayew> askubuntu is responsible for getting my hopes up so many times
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• 1383[10:51:25] <ratrace> I'd say it's made for people who maybe don't WANT or CARE about fiddling with internals, just want a working desktop
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• 1385[10:51:45] <annadane> which would be fine if it wasn't for all the other drawbacks
• 1386[10:51:48] <astra> granted, i'm far from perfect.. i make my own mistakes but that is why there are channels like this, ask for help
• 1387[10:51:51] <ratrace> annadane: true.
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• 1391[10:52:17] <astra> annadane indeed
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• 1397[10:56:25] <ratrace> ubuntu is a rather... schizo distro. they started by popularizing the ubuntu desktop. fine. then they started going into server sector. a lot to do to be competent, but okay. and now, now they'r suffering from a personality disorder where they want to be a desktop distro by NOT being a desktop distro but a base that leaves to others to manage the desktop apps via snaps, AND they want to become the king of
• 1398[10:56:31] <ratrace> cloud and server.
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• 1401[10:56:33] <jelly> !offtopic
• 1402[10:56:34] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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• 1404[10:56:49] <ratrace> yeah, sorry.
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• 1413[10:59:10] <astra> =)
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• 1418[11:01:36] <annadane> where's the factoid for how to go into the tty and not display manager, having a hard time finding it
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• 1422[11:02:59] <ratrace> annadane: systemd.unit=multi-user.target on the kernel command line -- is that what you seek?
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• 1425[11:03:17] <annadane> probably
• 1426[11:04:04] <ratrace> annadane: but, did you mean that? on boot?
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• 1428[11:04:20] <annadane> yeah like if you have a DM installed make it go to CLI instead of loading the dm
• 1429[11:04:30] <ratrace> that's it then
• 1430[11:04:41] <ratrace> I can't find a factoid about it either
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• 1437[11:06:01] <shtrb> Anyone have a solution or aware how to fix git svn signal 11 on successful exit ( With segfault at 7f3eda0b2280 ip 00007f3ed96f7e64 sp 00007ffc8aac0e60 error 4 in libKF5CoreAddons.so.5.54.0 )
• 1438[11:06:45] <ratrace> shtrb: you could strace it and see where exactly it segfaults
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• 1454[11:08:33] <shtrb> ratrace, I think it's more of a missing package than a real bug
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• 1456[11:09:17] <ratrace> shtrb: and a trace would tell you that :)
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• 1463[11:10:44] <shtrb> lol , I think you had been correct "wait4(3776, org.kde.kwindowsystem: Could not find any platform plugin"
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• 1467[11:13:44] <shtrb> And it look like upstream , ouf how could it skip into buster ?! ( replaced-url
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• 1482[11:17:31] <jelly> !nodm
• 1483[11:17:31] <dpkg> In systemd, "systemctl set-default multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm xdm". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (replaced-url
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• 1485[11:18:06] <shtrb> jelly, was that for me ?
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• 1491[11:19:04] <jelly> nope, that was for, uh, annadane who isn't here right now
• 1492[11:19:26] <BrainWork> hmmm
• 1493[11:19:27] <BrainWork> replaced-url
• 1494[11:19:32] <BrainWork> this document is extremely outdated.
• 1495[11:19:38] <shtrb> jelly, thanks
• 1496[11:19:39] <BrainWork> how would I contribute updated text?
• 1497[11:19:58] <ratrace> "outdated" is an understatement. it needs full rewrite, from scratch.
• 1498[11:20:03] <BrainWork> e.g. it refers to /etc/inittab, i think that went away with systemd, or maybe even before that
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• 1501[11:21:12] <jelly> BrainWork: first let's see if there's a package providing the same document
• 1502[11:21:15] <ratrace> well, inittab is still available, as sysv is still available
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• 1504[11:21:26] <jelly> judd: file *securing-debian-howto*
• 1505[11:21:30] <judd> Search for *securing-debian-howto* in buster/amd64: harden-doc: usr/share/doc-base/securing-debian-howto
• 1506[11:21:42] <shtrb> BrainWork, Debian still technically provide non systemd init options
• 1507[11:23:13] <jelly> BrainWork: you can file a bug against that package I guess
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• 1511[11:24:09] <BrainWork> i bet rewriting that would be a huge task
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• 1513[11:24:31] <BrainWork> not just that but i'm not the most qualified person, there would have to be others review it
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• 1516[11:25:12] <BrainWork> some of the stuff in there is just plain "ugh"... like mounting /tmp as noexec, breaks a lot of packages in apt
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• 1521[11:26:43] <jim> shtrb, but what happens to someone who chooses those options?
• 1522[11:26:53] <ratrace> BrainWork: mountint /tmp as noexec is fine. You only need a dpkg pre and post invoke hooks
• 1523[11:27:05] <ratrace> /mounting/
• 1524[11:27:19] <shtrb> He wonder what is worse a root canal treatment or that :)
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• 1526[11:27:40] <ratrace> root canal definitely
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• 1565[11:41:47] <Latr_work> Good morning folks. I have a question. For modprobe it87 force_id=0x8728, is the id meant to be the ACPI chip id?
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• 1570[11:42:58] <Latr_work> I am trying to get lm-sensors show my ryzen 3900x cpu temp on Buster and kernel 4.19.0-6 and motherboard MSI B450 Carbon AC
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• 1575[11:46:04] <eypo> Latr_work: Check replaced-url
• 1576[11:46:49] <Latr_work> I will have a look. Thanks
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• 1596[11:57:14] <BCMM> Latr_work: isn't it87 for mobo sensors rather than CPU sensors?
• 1597[11:58:49] <Latr_work> Not sure, however there are evidence of people with the same cpu that got it working with it87 + k10temp
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• 1602[11:59:11] <BCMM> Latr_work: i think that's it87 (for your motherboard sensors) and k10temp (for your cpu sensors)
• 1603[11:59:16] <Latr_work> k10temp however doesn't seem to be working unless it87 is configured
• 1604[11:59:28] <BCMM> oh, ok
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• 1607[12:00:39] <Latr_work> But hey, I am happy to hear any other idea
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• 1610[12:01:45] <oiaohm> Latr_work: I am on a MSI B450 and the k10temp works independant to the sensors driver but its MSI is nct6797 for the board.
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• 1614[12:03:05] <oiaohm> Latr_work: but for k10temp to work with rizen 3000 I need a 5.3.1/5.4.0-rc1 kernel.
• 1615[12:03:29] <oiaohm> Latr_work: baiscally 4.19.0-6 kernel I don't get k10temp either.
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• 1618[12:04:08] <Latr_work> oiaohm> oh fair enough
• 1619[12:04:08] <eypo> Latr_work: are you sure your motherboard do have an it87 chip instead of a nct6775 like other msi ryzen motherboards?
• 1620[12:04:19] <Latr_work> I am not
• 1621[12:04:58] <oiaohm> Latr_work: my exact board is a B450 TOMAHAWK MAX
• 1622[12:05:03] <oiaohm> Latr_work: so its a MSI
• 1623[12:05:09] <Latr_work> how could I see that?
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• 1625[12:05:15] <BCMM> Latr_work: what did sensors-detect show? did it just totally miss the motherboard and cpu sensors?
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• 1628[12:06:27] <Latr_work> that is all lm-sensors detect Found unknown chip with ID 0xd451
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• 1632[12:07:07] <oiaohm> Latr_work: I still on my board have lm-sensors show up nothing yet normal sensors show the stuff once I had the nct6797 module loaded.
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• 1634[12:07:38] <oiaohm> Latr_work: there are a few different nct drivers it could be as well.
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• 1639[12:08:10] <oiaohm> Both the k10temp and the motherboard sensors appear independant to each other.
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• 1641[12:08:42] <Latr_work> I grepped for nct6775 on dmidecode, dmesg, lspci but came up nothing
• 1642[12:09:01] <Latr_work> Perhpas thats not the way to detect it?
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• 1645[12:09:54] <oiaohm> Latr_work: do note the number on my board its not nct6775 for mine.
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• 1649[12:10:06] <eypo> Latr_work: try modprobe nct6775 force_id=0xd451
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• 1662[12:15:41] <oiaohm> Latr_work: the sensors chip its up to the model of the board. Even on my greping dmesg lspci dmidecode shows basically nothing. You only know you hit the right one when you load the module and it goes yes I have found it and sensor gives you correct values.
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• 1668[12:19:01] <user__> hello
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• 1670[12:19:16] <yo1> hello
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• 1674[12:19:31] <oiaohm> Latr_work: the only place I can find by list/greping stuff that my system has nct6775 something ls /sys/bus/platform/devices/ funny enough these tempeture sensors are on the ISA bus somehow.
• 1675[12:19:47] *** fstd_ is now known as fstd
• 1676[12:19:51] <yo1> ;) I'm looking people for help, how put font to debian package?
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• 1680[12:21:45] <yo1> meybe people who know polish language
• 1681[12:22:10] <oiaohm> Latr_work: and that only shows up after the driver is loaded.
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• 1685[12:23:22] <user__> whats this chat about? mr. im a cigarette smoker
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• 1691[12:24:32] <oiaohm> user__: currently dealing with new system hell of trying to find the sensor readout to know if your are attempting to cook your system or not with level of cooling.
• 1692[12:24:37] <user__> hi i know im a cigarette smoker
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• 1694[12:24:51] <yo1> user__ You ask me? I have font and need help with create package
• 1695[12:24:53] <oiaohm> user__: so you love killing electronics.
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• 1704[12:30:05] <Latr_work> replaced-url
• 1705[12:30:18] <Latr_work> no such device basically
• 1706[12:30:33] <user__> I'm a not so anonymous hacker
• 1707[12:30:42] <Latr_work> perhaps I need to be on kernel 5.4 ?
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• 1710[12:31:09] <Latr_work> Btw, would I need to compile it myself or is there a .deb one I can install?
• 1711[12:31:10] <yo1> no better use kernel 15.01++
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• 1714[12:31:46] <Latr_work> yo1: I dont find it sarcastic
• 1715[12:32:50] <oiaohm> Latr_work: I built 5.3.1 and my 5.4.0-rc1 straight from source. Did take me a little head bashing to get it to build unsigned.
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• 1719[12:33:16] <Latr_work> Fair enough, I will compile it later
• 1720[12:33:21] <user__> i was brought in as a youth and i kill in cold blood
• 1721[12:33:31] <Latr_work> Thanks for the help oiaohm
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• 1723[12:33:47] <oiaohm> Latr_work: I wasted 2 days working it out.
• 1724[12:34:00] <Latr_work> doesn't sound fun lol
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• 1731[12:36:40] <eypo> Latr_work: replaced-url
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• 1735[12:38:25] <Latr_work> Btw I have an it87 chip apparently
• 1736[12:38:29] <Latr_work> psammarco@miner1:~$ sudo dmesg |grep -i it87
• 1737[12:38:29] <Latr_work> [ 103.324363] it87: Found IT8628E chip at 0xfff8, revision 15
• 1738[12:38:29] <Latr_work> [ 103.324390] it87: Beeping is supported
• 1739[12:38:29] <Latr_work> [ 103.324454] it87: Found IT8628E chip at 0xfff8, revision 15
• 1740[12:38:29] <Latr_work> [ 103.324480] it87: Beeping is supported
• 1741[12:38:29] *** Latr_work was kicked by debhelper (flood)
• 1742[12:38:47] <KOLANICH> Hello. How to use apt-python API to install a deb file?
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• 1744[12:39:09] <Latr_work> damn it.. [ 103.324363] it87: Found IT8628E chip at 0xfff8, revision 1
• 1745[12:39:58] <Latr_work> Does it mean I do not have a nct chip?
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• 1749[12:40:41] <oiaohm> Latr_work: that looks like your board its a IT87 one.
• 1750[12:40:52] <Latr_work> right
• 1751[12:41:01] <oiaohm> where mine is a nct
• 1752[12:41:18] <Latr_work> so I need to get it87 to work than
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• 1755[12:42:46] <oiaohm> Latr_work: when you get to building the kernel SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYS will have to be cleared and MODULE_SIG unset to allow a unsigned build. after that I have been able to use make deb-pkg as normal user to get it to spit out local installable deb packages.
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• 1759[12:43:47] <oiaohm> Latr_work: replaced-url
• 1760[12:44:52] <Latr_work> I honestly never built a kernel on debian. I do it on Gentoo on a daily basis, didn't think it was going to be any different.. Thanks for the heads up
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• 1763[12:45:59] <oiaohm> Latr_work: its because debian has as signed kernel and by default when you build a kernel the xconfig pulls in your current kernel config file.
• 1764[12:46:10] <oiaohm> Latr_work: and of course we don't have the debian signing key.
• 1765[12:46:24] <Latr_work> makes sense :S
• 1766[12:46:45] <oiaohm> Its only change 2 values when you awake to it.
• 1767[12:47:08] <oiaohm> So its not too bad its just annoying the documentation is incomplete and missing one.
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• 1773[12:47:36] <oiaohm> Latr_work: the other change is the deb-pkg built built into the Linux kernel source that as gentoo user you would not be using.
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• 1775[12:48:10] <oiaohm> So not much different to what you have done before.
• 1776[12:48:48] <user__> hello nice to meat you again * '_' *
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• 1804[13:04:57] <user__> we dont know what that is expealadoches
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• 1812[13:07:14] <yhm12345> My Debian (in docker) has no modprobe command . how can i fix it? Direct apt-get does not seem to work.
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• 1815[13:07:49] <humpled> wait is it ubuntu or debian?
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• 1818[13:08:31] <yhm12345> ubuntu
• 1819[13:08:47] <yhm12345> sorry i just made a mistake
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• 1824[13:10:52] <colo-work> you can't/are not supposed to load kernel modules from within a container anyway
• 1825[13:10:54] <Haohmaru> it's not a mistake, it's a sin!
• 1826[13:11:02] <colo-work> don't use Docker if you don't know what you're doing
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• 1828[13:11:52] <ratrace> also "my debian in docker" is using it totally wrong. docker is meant for single process containerization, not abusing it as if it were a VM
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• 1833[13:13:43] <BCMM> yhm12345: docker is not a VM. a distro running inside docker does not have its own kernel; it uses the "host" kernel (quote marks cos it's still not a vm). why do you want to run modprobe inside docker? perhaps we could help find a different way to achieve what you want to do
• 1834[13:13:44] <yhm12345> sorry, but VM is too big..
• 1835[13:14:25] <yhm12345> i am using docker in VM way...
• 1836[13:14:26] <ratrace> yhm12345: it's the same + kernel, if you're putting entire "debian" base OS inside docker
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• 1841[13:14:48] <BCMM> ratrace: it's not entirely invalid to run a distro inside docker, e.g. if you need basically a chroot but with a bit more isolation
• 1842[13:14:52] <ratrace> yhm12345: if you really want VM-like containers, use LXC. Docker is NOT meant to be run like a VM
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• 1844[13:15:11] <BCMM> if i really really needed to run an insecure, obsolete distro for some weird application, i'd certainly consider it
• 1845[13:15:18] <ratrace> BCMM: yeah but then there's no size difference from a VM.
• 1846[13:15:22] <yhm12345> ratrace: thank you
• 1847[13:15:29] <yhm12345> i get it
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• 1849[13:15:45] <BCMM> lxc isn't going to let you load kernel modules either...
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• 1851[13:15:57] <yhm12345> .... it is?
• 1852[13:15:57] <ratrace> true that.
• 1853[13:16:15] <yhm12345> but i don't want VM anyway
• 1854[13:16:17] <BCMM> yhm12345: seriously, just let us know why you want to load a module, and we'll see if there's a way to work around it
• 1855[13:16:28] <ratrace> yhm12345: if you want some "isolated" way to run some kernel modules, you really want a VM with its own kernel
• 1856[13:16:49] <yhm12345> i want to use docker to make some appimage
• 1857[13:17:00] <yhm12345> which needs a driver
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• 1861[13:17:12] <yhm12345> fuse
• 1862[13:17:47] <ratrace> modprobe it on the host?
• 1863[13:17:59] <yhm12345> no , docker
• 1864[13:18:12] <ratrace> I mean, DO modprobe it on the host side. it'll be available in the container
• 1865[13:18:14] <BCMM> yhm12345: there is only one kernel.
• 1866[13:18:35] <BCMM> that said, i don't think the docker environment is going to be allowed to actually mount stuff, is it?
• 1867[13:18:39] <ratrace> see, that's the thing about treating containers like VM. they're NOT. they're just some namespaces on the SAME kernel as the host. there is no point modprobing from the container, as the kernel is the same
• 1868[13:18:53] <yhm12345> but my host already have it
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• 1870[13:19:11] <yhm12345> i am not really understand how docker works
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• 1873[13:19:25] <BCMM> yeah, i don't think it's the lack of the FUSE kernel module blocking this. you can't just mount stuff inside docker
• 1874[13:19:54] <gry> install gworkspace.app, click info>preferences; does it do anything for you? please confirm; if it doesn't, then i'll report a bug
• 1875[13:20:02] <yhm12345> ok,thank you
• 1876[13:20:21] <BCMM> if you wanted to expose a filesystem to docker, the normal way would be to mount it from outside the docker environment, and then provided as a docker volume
• 1877[13:20:42] <BCMM> yhm12345: however, it looks like you *can* punch holes in the container to allow FUSE replaced-url
• 1878[13:21:06] <BCMM> of course, depending on why you're doing this all in docker in the first place, that might defeat the point
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• 1880[13:21:28] <ratrace> I'd really just use a chroot "to create an app image in an isolated environment".
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• 1883[13:21:59] <BCMM> chroot isn't really "isolation"
• 1884[13:22:00] <ratrace> docker was designed as a helper tool primarily for _deployment_ . it's not a VM, VM replacement, and it's a bit inconveniet for "quick isolated envs to do some dirty work".
• 1885[13:22:14] <BCMM> if any of this is supposed to be about security, chroot is unsuitable
• 1886[13:22:21] <ratrace> BCMM: it's filesystem isolation... Im understanding that's what's needed here and not some security boundary (which docker doesn't provide anyway)
• 1887[13:22:22] <BCMM> but then, of course, so is --cap-add SYS_ADMIN
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• 1892[13:23:32] <ratrace> BCMM: technically, no containerization tech is suitable for that, as it's all about namespaces. security comes from enforcing those namespaces from "outside" with things like AppArmor or SELinux
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• 1898[13:24:06] <ratrace> biggest problem being UID namespace, as not all parts of the kernel are aware of the mapping, and might confuse uid=0 for actual root
• 1899[13:24:19] <BCMM> ratrace: ok, how do you break out of an appropriately configured docker container? for example, gain access to the rest of the filesystem?
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• 1905[13:26:11] <BCMM> (this is something that's trivial to do from a chroot)
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• 1911[13:27:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o themill
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• 1915[13:27:41] <ratrace> BCMM: primarily through a kernel vuln. there were also (and probably will be more) docker race condition bugs which allowed breaking out
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• 1917[13:28:31] <BCMM> ok, so it *is* intended to provide secure isolation, and your point is simply that software can be buggy?
• 1918[13:28:32] <ratrace> BCMM: such kernel vulns are not too rate. I can't remember any right now otoh, but you can google up UID namespace bugs, where parts don't know about the mapping and assume unprivileged user mapped as uid=0 to be actual root
• 1919[13:28:50] <BCMM> unlike a chroot, which has never even been intended to be a security mechanism
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• 1925[13:29:29] <ratrace> BCMM: not quite. my point is that linux namespaces are done differently than solaris or bsd jails which compartmentalize in a way so different, such namespacing bugs are virtually nonexistent
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• 1927[13:30:25] <ratrace> BCMM: that's why "external" security enforcement like with SELinux or AppArmor ensure that a process that managed to break out, doesn't have any access. MAC/RBAC really takes the root out of uid=0, which is the whole point of it.
• 1928[13:30:27] <f8e3> i have modified osudo nano /etc/profile, do i need to relogin?
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• 1931[13:31:20] <BCMM> f8e3: you can just do `source /etc/profile` to apply the changes to your running shell
• 1932[13:31:24] <ratrace> %s/too rate/too rare/
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• 1934[13:31:45] <BCMM> if you're trying to make to make your desktop shell aware of it, it might be easiest to just relogin
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• 1937[13:32:28] <f8e3> BCMM but ingeneral, ?
• 1938[13:32:41] <f8e3> oke
• 1939[13:32:42] <lowin> Hello. I noticed ibus-qt4 package is missing in buster. What should one do to get ibus to work in qt programs?
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• 1941[13:33:07] <BCMM> f8e3: i don't really understand that last question
• 1942[13:33:28] <f8e3> BCMM i dont have "~/.bash_profile" only .bash_rc, is it eqAL?
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• 1944[13:34:54] <f8e3> and i dont have to relogin adding path there, yay
• 1945[13:34:58] <themill> lowin: is there not a qt5 equivalent? (there isn't much qt4 stuff left in buster)
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• 1948[13:35:11] <BCMM> f8e3: .bashrc (without the _) is sourced by interactive shells only. .bash_profile is sourced by uninteractive bash shells.
• 1949[13:35:37] <BCMM> f8e3: an uninteractive shell would be, for example, a shell started to execute a script starting #!/bin/bash
• 1950[13:35:48] <lowin> themill, Not that I can find
• 1951[13:36:17] <lowin> apt search ibus | grep qt returns nothing
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• 1953[13:36:35] <BCMM> f8e3: sorry, i have misinformed you
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• 1955[13:36:37] <themill> I thought it was built into Qt5 itself
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• 1957[13:37:14] <BCMM> f8e3: bash_profile is for login shells only
• 1958[13:37:24] <lowin> Maybe something is wrong with my config? I have QT_IM_MODULES=ibus in my .bashrc
• 1959[13:38:25] <BCMM> lowin: what qt programs are you trying to use it with? do you really still have qt4 programs?
• 1960[13:38:30] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip)
• 1961[13:38:53] <lowin> I tried with telegram and smplayer. smplayer is qt5 afaik
• 1962[13:38:59] <lowin> I really only need it in telegram
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• 1964[13:39:44] <BCMM> telegram is a qt5 application in buster
• 1965[13:40:04] <BCMM> or at least it deps on several libqt5* packages
• 1966[13:40:15] <lowin> but how to make it work?
• 1967[13:40:40] <ratrace> !doesn't work
• 1968[13:40:40] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
• 1969[13:41:04] <lowin> ...
• 1970[13:42:18] <themill> lowin: is that variable actually in your environment?
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• 1973[13:43:13] <lowin> No it's in bashrc, i'll put it in /etc/environment
• 1974[13:43:43] <BCMM> lowin: i think it's part of libqt5gui5 now - no additional packages needed
• 1975[13:44:10] <lowin> I'll reboot my system later to see if the problem is resolved
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• 1978[13:44:58] <BCMM> lowin: or at least, there's a /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/platforminputcontexts/libibusplatforminputcontextplugin.so. i don't know what it does exactly.
• 1979[13:45:24] <lowin> Yeah the issue is with environment
• 1980[13:45:27] <themill> lowin: try opening a terminal and starting the applicatio nfrom there
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• 1982[13:45:32] <lowin> I just tested running smplayer and it works
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• 1987[13:45:37] <lowin> from terminal*
• 1988[13:45:56] <themill> lowin: what display manager do you use to log in?
• 1989[13:46:03] <lowin> lightdm
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• 1991[13:46:15] <BCMM> i think platforminputcontexts are the qt5 equivalent of qt4's input methods
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• 1993[13:47:05] <themill> I don't think the lightdm login stuff sources bashrc. (vague memory)
• 1994[13:47:29] <themill> lowin: plasma or something else?
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• 1998[13:47:34] <lowin> xfce
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• 2001[13:47:53] <themill> no idea if it has a way of setting environment variables during login for you
• 2002[13:47:58] <lowin> It should be fine if I put it in /etc/environment
• 2003[13:48:05] <lowin> I hope
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• 2010[13:52:50] <eb0t> hey i m trying to make sure that cron starts on reboot...if i type service cron enable
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• 2012[13:52:54] <eb0t> it is not understood
• 2013[13:53:18] <BCMM> eb0t: what exact error did you get when you ran that command?
• 2014[13:53:25] <themill> itym systemctl enable cron
• 2015[13:53:46] <eb0t> [info] Usage: /etc/init.d/cron {start|stop|status|restart|reload|force-reload}
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• 2017[13:53:54] <eb0t> ah themill ill try that
• 2018[13:53:55] <themill> (although why it would be disabled I don't know)
• 2019[13:54:15] <BCMM> oh, i only just realised it said "enable" not "start", sorry
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• 2023[13:55:06] <eb0t> not sure .. i had another linux previously and it didnt start cron on reboot
• 2024[13:55:32] <eb0t> now on debian when i do a systemctl enable cron it doesnt understand that either
• 2025[13:55:49] <eb0t> sorry it worked
• 2026[13:55:55] <eb0t> thanks themill
• 2027[13:56:00] <themill> np
• 2028[13:56:48] <eb0t> i had an accident once and there was power cut and i was remote...i tried to get onto my mahcines whose ip address updated and cron had not started ...so the duckdns thing that updates the server with my new ip was only issuing old ip
• 2029[13:57:10] <eb0t> and i was in big trouble..so with this new debian install just making sure cron is totally on ..no matter what happens
• 2030[13:57:38] *** Quits: CtrlC (~CtrlC@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2031[13:57:58] <ihristov> I've never seen disabled cron by default in Debian in the last 10+ years
• 2032[13:58:06] <eb0t> it was on gentoo
• 2033[13:58:10] <ihristov> What was you previous OS
• 2034[13:58:12] <ihristov> Thanks :-0
• 2035[13:58:14] <ihristov> :)
• 2036[13:58:19] <ihristov> Pretty strange
• 2037[13:58:47] <eb0t> yes i thought so too...it was probably my fault ..i probably changed to cronie or something and then forgot to enable it
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• 2039[13:58:55] <eb0t> i tinker a lot
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• 2050[14:06:42] <DrOwl> MEH damed cars
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• 2052[14:06:58] <DrOwl> opps sorry wrong window!
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• 2072[14:20:01] <lenswipe> Hey all. I'm using a Dell laptop with a TB16 thunderbolt dock. It used to work fine until a couple of months ago and now doesn't work at all. The displays work through it, but that's largely it. No ethernet, no USB, no audio, the devices just flat out don't appear to the system anymore.. I've swapped the dock out for other docks and they're the same. Any ideas?
• 2073[14:20:07] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2074[14:20:20] <lenswipe> Oh, I forgot - I'm running Debian 9 (which I think is stretch?)
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• 2077[14:21:13] <lenswipe> If I plug a mouse into the dock, the mouse light comes on briefly for about 1s and then goes off. It's like it thought about switching on and then changed it's mind.
• 2078[14:21:36] <lenswipe> The laptop is up to date, the OS is up to date (reasonably) and the dock has the latest firmware
• 2079[14:21:44] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2080[14:21:56] <jelly> lenswipe: does it work any different if you have the machine powered off, plug it in the dock, and power it on then?
• 2081[14:22:06] <lenswipe> jelly, it does not.
• 2082[14:22:10] <eb0t> maybe you havent got the driver for that mouse
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• 2084[14:22:19] <lenswipe> eb0t, again, the mouse _used_ to work
• 2085[14:22:29] <lenswipe> Also - this applies to all USB peripherals, not just the mouse
• 2086[14:22:33] <lenswipe> USB webcam, keyboard etc.
• 2087[14:22:46] <jelly> might be a regression in kernel, might be hardware, hard to say
• 2088[14:22:49] *** Joins: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip)
• 2089[14:22:57] <jelly> try a different linux
• 2090[14:22:57] <lenswipe> jelly, indeed....how do I go about debugging this?
• 2091[14:23:02] <lenswipe> jelly, really?!
• 2092[14:23:19] <jelly> yes. live images are easy to try.
• 2093[14:23:23] <ihristov> Try booting a Llive CD :)
• 2094[14:23:26] <lenswipe> Oh, right :)
• 2095[14:23:34] <lenswipe> I thought you were just saying "yeah, we give up - go try arch"
• 2096[14:23:46] <jelly> eg. debian 10 firmware live
• 2097[14:23:51] <jelly> !firmware live
• 2098[14:23:51] <lenswipe> ah cool
• 2099[14:23:51] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at replaced-url
• 2100[14:23:54] <colo-work> maybe try installing the stretch bpo kernel?
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• 2102[14:24:00] <lenswipe> also ihristov this machine has no CD drive
• 2103[14:24:04] <eb0t> lsusb
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• 2105[14:24:08] <lenswipe> eb0t,
• 2106[14:24:13] <lenswipe> oops
• 2107[14:24:14] <ihristov> LiveCD could start from USB also :)
• 2108[14:24:33] <lenswipe> eb0t, replaced-url
• 2109[14:24:34] <eb0t> great command lsusb to see which drivers are loaded for which device
• 2110[14:24:52] <lenswipe> :)
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• 2113[14:27:39] <lenswipe> jelly, alright, ima try an arch live image (co-worker has a USB flash drive with arch)
• 2114[14:27:42] <lenswipe> I'll try it and post back
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• 2125[14:31:15] <f8e3> why should i use sudo -iu, whats the -i and -u in conjunction?
• 2126[14:31:38] <a0z> man sudo
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• 2130[14:33:32] <f8e3> sorry Run the shell specified by the target user's password data base entry as a login shell. ??
• 2131[14:33:49] <f8e3> -u specifies the user, but -i too?
• 2132[14:34:16] <a0z> -i is interactive shell I believe
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• 2135[14:38:03] <jelly> f8e3: "sudo -iu" does not sound like a complete command, do you have any context for that question?
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• 2145[14:42:29] <airwind> does debian offer any hardened kernel binaries for x64?
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• 2154[14:46:50] <tsglove> I have a process id I am trying to kill. I am issuing kill -9 21177 yet the process doesn´t end. It´s owned by me and my group.
• 2155[14:46:57] <tsglove> Any idea what could be going on?
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• 2157[14:47:50] <EdePopede> is it dead, maybe stuck, waiting for some I/O to complete?
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• 2159[14:48:41] <tsglove> EdePopede, I dunno. I just want to kill it. I am running ps aux | grep firefox
• 2160[14:48:48] <ratrace> tsglove: is it in D state?
• 2161[14:48:49] <tsglove> and I have six entries for firefox-esr
• 2162[14:48:55] <jelly> tsglove: look at dmesg for weirdness.
• 2163[14:49:06] <tsglove> ratrace, I am not sure which column that is, yet I do have ´z´
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• 2168[14:49:56] <EdePopede> z as in zombie?
• 2169[14:50:06] <ratrace> that's a zombie yah. drop a nuke
• 2170[14:50:23] <tsglove> How?
• 2171[14:50:39] <tsglove> Z as in zombie... yes. Capital Z
• 2172[14:50:42] <jelly> um. Z (capital Z) state is already dead. Its parent process just needs to reap it. Nothing to be done.
• 2173[14:50:49] <tsglove> oh
• 2174[14:50:51] <tsglove> Well
• 2175[14:51:05] <jelly> it means its ppid is busy with something.
• 2176[14:51:21] <tsglove> I setup a cronjob to run a script every night. And I just realized I have a couple of those remnants. How could I clean it up?
• 2177[14:51:39] <tsglove> The process ´title´ is [firefox-esr] <defunct>
• 2178[14:51:42] <ratrace> rebootnuke if pid1 doesn't take them to the chopping block
• 2179[14:51:50] <tsglove> pid1?
• 2180[14:52:17] <jelly> tsglove: verify whether which processes are parents and whether they are stuck doing something
• 2181[14:52:22] <tsglove> ahh
• 2182[14:52:27] <tsglove> ok ok, lemme check
• 2183[14:52:36] <jelly> ps -fp 21177
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• 2185[14:52:55] <jelly> what's the parent process id?
• 2186[14:52:57] *** Quits: den_erpel_ (~marc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2187[14:52:57] <jelly> PPID
• 2188[14:53:10] <jelly> inspect _that_ process.
• 2189[14:53:15] <darkgea> gay
• 2190[14:53:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 2191[14:53:26] *** Parts: darkgea (~darkgea@replaced-ip) (requested by jelly (no))
• 2192[14:53:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
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• 2194[14:53:38] <tsglove> On my way...
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• 2197[14:54:35] <darkgea> hellooo
• 2198[14:55:00] <ratrace> huh, I've confused zombie with an orphan (no parent, so pid 1 reaps it).
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• 2201[14:55:17] <darkgea> what kind of OS do you use ?
• 2202[14:55:38] <jelly> darkgea: Debian GNU/Linux is the likely answer in this channel
• 2203[14:56:03] <tsglove> jelly, yeah! ps -fp 21177 gave me the PPID. Killing that removed it. I am guess ppid = Parent Process ID?
• 2204[14:56:39] <tsglove> ratrace, this is new to me! Quite happy to have run into this problem. Already learned something new in the day!
• 2205[14:56:42] <jelly> tsglove: did you take a look at what the name of that process was and its other attributes?
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• 2217[14:58:17] <tsglove> jelly, no... I just killed it. Yet I still have five I haven´t killed, as I´m trying to learn more.
• 2218[14:58:22] <tsglove> Lemme check that parent process.
• 2219[14:58:38] <ratrace> tsglove: see if sending SIGCHLD to the parent forces a reap
• 2220[14:58:58] <tsglove> I am also reading the ps man page, and I understand the ps -fp ´s -f format flag. Yet the -p flag, maybe I´m missing it, yet why did it bring up the parent´s pid?
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• 2222[14:59:17] <darkgea> DOnt KILL MEEEEEE
• 2223[14:59:20] <tsglove> ratrace, SIGCHLD? Checking what flag that is ! =)
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• 2225[15:00:26] <jelly> tsglove: -p NUMBER just tells ps to only show info for one process.
• 2226[15:00:31] <diogenes_> hello guys, how do i specify this in a bash script: if [ "`pgrep foo`" = "gives output"]; then bar1; else bar2; fi
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• 2229[15:00:34] <ratrace> tsglove: s/flag/signal/
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• 2231[15:00:54] <diogenes_> it has to run the commands depending on the presence of the absence of the output.
• 2232[15:00:57] <jelly> diogenes_: don't check output at all. pgrep gives a useful exit code.
• 2233[15:01:02] <tsglove> ratrace, true. flag/signal. signal it is
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• 2236[15:01:14] <jelly> diogenes_: if pgrep foo; then bar; esle foo; fi
• 2237[15:01:17] <tsglove> I found the parent's name with ps 12345 --- =)
• 2238[15:01:24] <diogenes_> jelly, thanks, trying...
• 2239[15:01:41] <jelly> diogenes_: you can however redirect the output if you don't need it.
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• 2241[15:02:06] <diogenes_> jelly, i don't need the output, just to verify if the process is running.
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• 2244[15:02:35] <jelly> if pgrep foo >/dev/null; then echo there are some foo running; else echo no foo found running; fi
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• 2246[15:02:52] <diogenes_> jelly, thanks a lot.
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• 2248[15:03:25] <jelly> diogenes_: you can use any command's successful or unsuccesful exit status as a test for if
• 2249[15:03:36] <diogenes_> i see
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• 2251[15:03:42] <jelly> if grep blah somefile; then echo found blah in somefile; fi
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• 2253[15:04:48] <tsglove> YEAH!!! Cleaned up the processes. Thanks to all =) Much appreciated
• 2254[15:05:16] <ratrace> tsglove: you're welcome
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• 2256[15:05:35] <diogenes_> jelly, works perfectly thanks!
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• 2265[15:10:28] <Ojd_> hello, I am trying to build a custom ISO. I want several .deb pkgs to be installed with this ISO but for some reason only one .deb is working, anyone with experience creating custom images?
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• 2269[15:12:02] <Jade_NL> Does anyone know where to get xml2po for debian (buster)? Been looking, but to no avail.
• 2270[15:12:03] <diogenes_> Ojd_, maybe there are other methods but i've successfully created my own custom iso using a default live iso, if you want i can pastebin the process of creating it.
• 2271[15:12:47] <Ojd_> diogenes_: I will appreciate it
• 2272[15:13:09] <diogenes_> Ojd_, ok then i will pastebin it.
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• 2290[15:24:00] <diogenes_> Ojd_, here: replaced-url
• 2291[15:24:21] <Ojd_> diogenes_: thank you
• 2292[15:24:24] <diogenes_> make sure you modify all the changes accordingly to your specific iso.
• 2293[15:24:29] <diogenes_> you're welcome.
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• 2306[15:28:01] <andarius40> good afternoon
• 2307[15:28:03] <andarius40> Good afternoonI try to use third location for authenticate user but I don't find solution with Location /dir /dir/sub1 /dir/sub2
• 2308[15:28:13] *** Joins: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip)
• 2309[15:28:18] <andarius40> but only /dir is see
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• 2314[15:31:00] <ratrace> andarius40: it is not clear what exactly you are talking about
• 2315[15:31:34] <andarius40> I want to use Location for identify user for check if they have access
• 2316[15:31:45] <ratrace> andarius40: what program?
• 2317[15:32:12] <andarius40> oh sorry Apache2.4.38
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• 2319[15:33:45] <ratrace> I wouldn't know, maybe someone else does. Also you can ask in #httpd
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• 2322[15:35:41] <andarius40> Thank you I ask on#httpd
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• 2328[15:38:56] <jelly> ,v apache2-bin
• 2329[15:38:57] <judd> Package: apache2-bin on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; jessie-security: 2.4.10-10+deb8u16; stretch: 2.4.25-3+deb9u8; stretch-security: 2.4.25-3+deb9u8; buster: 2.4.38-3+deb10u1; buster-security: 2.4.38-3+deb10u1; buster-backports: 2.4.41-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.4.41-1; sid: 2.4.41-1
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• 2356[15:57:30] <sarthe> so, uh, ive been at this for days, but wtf does grub do that clings on to old UUIDs and bricks my system when i change the root partition? Ive manually changed UUID in /boot/grub/grub.cfg, and rebooted, / is the new one, so I run update-grub...
• 2357[15:57:51] <sarthe> next reboot i get some gibberish because its still trying to find the old partition
• 2358[15:58:03] *** Quits: gnufr33dom (~gnufr33do@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2359[15:58:10] <sarthe> "rroc: debug" or something like that.
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• 2361[15:58:23] <jelly> sarthe: update-grub recreates /boot/grub/grub.cfg from scratch
• 2362[15:58:37] <sarthe> thats what i thought
• 2363[15:58:53] <sarthe> but its still clinging onto old, non-existant partitions
• 2364[15:58:54] <jelly> sarthe: is your /etc/fstab fixed?
• 2365[15:59:07] <sarthe> absolutely. 1st thing i changed
• 2366[15:59:19] <jelly> which debian release is this
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• 2368[16:00:14] <sarthe> oh, i should mention this is GPT disk/UEFI boot... and debian 8
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• 2374[16:02:15] <sarthe> considering this seems to be some grub2/clingy/pre-system crap going on, not sure why the version of debian matters.
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• 2381[16:03:36] <jelly> sarthe: versions of os-prober and update-grub/grub-mkconfig might matter.
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• 2385[16:03:59] <jelly> so it's a general orientation question
• 2386[16:04:07] <sarthe> for the record, ive been booting from a live-cd debian 9 to fix it most of the time.
• 2387[16:04:23] <sarthe> (when grub screws up and bricks the system)
• 2388[16:05:11] <sarthe> ...but thats just mostly restoring partition tables/backup filesystems etc
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• 2390[16:05:49] <jelly> um, grub should not mangle partition tables, ever
• 2391[16:06:13] <sarthe> it doesnt seem to be, but it also cant keep up with changes im making
• 2392[16:06:40] <sarthe> as i said, i moved /... grub still wants the old one and fails miserably
• 2393[16:06:52] <jelly> sarthe: pastebin the outputs of "blkid" and "grub-mkconfig" , run as root
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• 2395[16:07:17] <jelly> sarthe: oh and "lsblk" for good measure
• 2396[16:07:28] <sarthe> ok... be advised at the moment ive 'hacked' it via live-cd again... but its on the right / now
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• 2398[16:08:20] <jelly> sarthe: that grub-mkconfig should be run inside the debian installation, chroot with bind-mounted /sys /dev and /proc is fine
• 2399[16:08:50] <sarthe> theres no chroot here, im not smart enough to figure it out
• 2400[16:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1555
• 2401[16:09:53] <sarthe> ugh. ok, i have to start the bloody web browser. hang on...
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• 2403[16:10:37] <jelly> I wonder if !fixgrub is up to date
• 2404[16:10:39] <jelly> !fixgrub
• 2405[16:10:39] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
• 2406[16:11:04] <sarthe> wait, why did grub-mkconfig pretend to install entries in its boot thing?
• 2407[16:11:39] <jelly> update-grub and grub-mkconfig are much the same thing, except grub-mkconfig dumps the config on stdout by default
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• 2409[16:12:16] <sarthe> replaced-url
• 2410[16:12:42] <sarthe> ...and puts normal output on 2>, i see
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• 2412[16:13:04] <sarthe> anything else you wanted?
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• 2414[16:13:21] <jelly> is that run inside your debian?
• 2415[16:13:27] <jelly> that kernel is... unusual.
• 2416[16:13:34] <jelly> linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.8.17-amd64 root=UUID=475a8d45-2270-49af-be3e-89d0d7f1a859 ro i8042.nopnp i8042.reset
• 2417[16:13:36] <sarthe> its custom
• 2418[16:13:52] <sarthe> ... which was actually the whole point of this disaster
• 2419[16:14:10] <sarthe> but nevermind that
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• 2421[16:14:49] <sarthe> 475... is correct root device
• 2422[16:15:23] <sarthe> the wrong one starts with b747... (from memory - ive been abused by it so long i can remember off-hand :(
• 2423[16:15:28] <jelly> sarthe: "lsblk" and "blkid"
• 2424[16:15:50] <sarthe> see msg for lsblk...
• 2425[16:16:17] <jelly> Pastebin it for other people.
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• 2427[16:16:46] <jelly> and it's easier for me to use a browser tab than irc client tab as well
• 2428[16:16:53] <sarthe> replaced-url
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• 2431[16:17:11] <sarthe> im sure you can handle *one* :P
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• 2433[16:17:41] <jelly> you have something on /dev/sdb8 that grub seems to find as root fs as well
• 2434[16:17:45] <jelly> /dev/sdb8: UUID="475a8d45-2270-49af-be3e-89d0d7f1a859" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="e7b51b79-8eaf-47cc-afe4-6a557d2b92d5"
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• 2439[16:18:26] <jelly> er, that's the correct one.
• 2440[16:18:28] <jelly> /dev/sdb2: UUID="0b7470ee-a11d-40a4-9472-7ed982f1d1b6" SEC_TYPE="ext2" TYPE="ext3" PARTUUID="d6309ff3-0329-441a-af2d-27da9176389e"
• 2441[16:18:48] <jelly> that one is also seen in grub-mkconfig output
• 2442[16:19:03] <sarthe> b747... is the WRONG one
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• 2445[16:19:33] <sarthe> whered you see that? I MUST ELIMINATE IT!
• 2446[16:20:13] <jelly> and /dev/sdb3 sounds like your /boot ?
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• 2449[16:20:35] <sarthe> nope, sdb1 is mounted on /boot/efi
• 2450[16:20:45] <jelly> /boot/efi is not the same as /boot
• 2451[16:20:53] <sarthe> /boot is same fs as /
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• 2454[16:21:30] <jelly> but grub finds its own root on /dev/sdb3, uuid matching
• 2455[16:21:32] <jelly> search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,gpt3 --hint-efi=hd1,gpt3 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,gpt3 e6128093-8b01-4f84-aff0-a62e2ae10fb7
• 2456[16:21:53] <sarthe> replaced-url
• 2457[16:22:07] <sarthe> err. what?
• 2458[16:22:29] <jelly> why do you have a separate /usr :-\
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• 2460[16:22:43] <sarthe> because im oldskool, mate
• 2461[16:22:57] <sarthe> this system began about 10 years ago
• 2462[16:23:11] <sarthe> probably more
• 2463[16:23:16] <jelly> separate /usr was out of date since 1990s
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• 2465[16:23:54] <jelly> I can hazard a guess though: debian-installer guided partitioning makes you do that
• 2466[16:24:07] <sarthe> it probably did in the '80s
• 2467[16:24:13] <sarthe> not my problem
• 2468[16:24:38] <sarthe> hmm, i dont think its '80s, but whatever
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• 2470[16:25:17] <jelly> if you don't need /dev/sdb2, delete it, rerun grub-mkconfig, see what happens?
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• 2474[16:25:40] <sarthe> yeah. thats the problem... you reboot, and grub shits itself
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• 2476[16:26:07] <sarthe> thats EXACTLY the problem, actually... it just clings onto old partitions
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• 2481[16:27:42] <sarthe> where did you see 0b747... UUID in any of that? I thought i'd tracked down and eradicated all evidence of it?
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• 2486[16:30:50] <jelly> sarthe: blkid /dev/sdb2, alternate entries for grub with 3.19 kernel (from os-prober)
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• 2489[16:32:22] <jelly> sarthe: it's very likely you boot/grub/grub.cfg on more than one partition, and EFI picks the one you're not expecting
• 2490[16:32:54] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip)
• 2491[16:32:55] <sarthe> sounds plausible, but... EFI cant read non-vfat, right?
• 2492[16:32:58] <jelly> grub-install from the right OS install might fix that, but I don't know how that works for grub-edi
• 2493[16:33:14] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2494[16:33:19] <jelly> sarthe: it's not EFI that reads ext3, it's grub executable.
• 2495[16:33:37] <sarthe> hmm, and now were in a catch 22
• 2496[16:33:57] <jelly> run grub-install ... as !fixgrub suggests.
• 2497[16:34:04] <sarthe> ...or rather grub is clinging onto partition i did not tell it to use and arent even mounted
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• 2499[16:34:37] <sarthe> eugh... grub-install... last time i tried that it also bricked the system.
• 2500[16:34:55] <sarthe> but ill rtfms and...
• 2501[16:34:56] *** Joins: sdu (d4fb6b53@replaced-ip)
• 2502[16:35:28] <jelly> you keep using that word, "bricked".
• 2503[16:35:42] <sarthe> slang for 'not-bootable'
• 2504[16:35:46] <jelly> I do not think it means what you think it means.
• 2505[16:35:48] *** Joins: j4m3s__ (j4m3s@replaced-ip)
• 2506[16:35:58] <petererer> Bricked means unrecoverable...
• 2507[16:36:08] *** Quits: _jrjsmrtn (~jrjsmrtn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2508[16:36:13] <sarthe> well ok, mr. pedantic.
• 2509[16:36:29] <petererer> My work here is done. :-)
• 2510[16:36:51] <sarthe> lets try writing software so that never happens eh? because nobody used that term 20years ago. it was impossible
• 2511[16:37:13] <sarthe> and i would say your work is 1/2 done :P
• 2512[16:37:29] <sarthe> *points at grub developers*
• 2513[16:37:40] *** Joins: conta (Thunderbir@replaced-ip)
• 2514[16:37:58] <sarthe> anyway i need to read...
• 2515[16:38:14] <humpled> if it POSTs it's not bricked
• 2516[16:38:25] <humpled> bricked means it's now a stylish paperweight
• 2517[16:38:51] <sarthe> oh i can make it not post, mate...
• 2518[16:39:13] <jhutchins_wk> Usualy applied to a device with an embedded OS, which is not something we really had 20 years ago.
• 2519[16:39:46] <humpled> like games machines?
• 2520[16:40:02] <jhutchins_wk> The mechanism that allows modifications of the system becomes corrupted, or the boot process does not get far enough to enable that mechanism.
• 2521[16:40:08] *** Joins: chalcedny (~chalcedon@replaced-ip)
• 2522[16:40:17] <jhutchins_wk> humpled: Some game machines.
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• 2524[16:40:44] <jhutchins_wk> I think the usage I first saw was mostly people updating routers, and cell phones.
• 2525[16:40:55] *** Quits: kchz (~dschulz@replaced-ip) (Quit: ZZzzz…)
• 2526[16:40:57] <sarthe> real systems, like SGI, Sun, etc used small hardware components that monitored the main system.
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• 2528[16:41:18] <jhutchins_wk> PC BIOS updates sometimes failed, but they weren't calling that "bricked".
• 2529[16:41:38] <sarthe> for one thing, i dont think they had 'firmware' and so they werent brickable
• 2530[16:41:58] *** Quits: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2531[16:42:16] <sarthe> and secondly, they build emergency modes into the main hardware that could restore major problems.
• 2532[16:42:59] *** Quits: den_erpel_ (~marc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2533[16:43:18] <sarthe> nowadays a PC system with 2 redundant 'bios' chips cost 14 million dollars, so...
• 2534[16:43:45] <jhutchins_wk> sarthe: Which planet are you on? None of that is true here.
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• 2536[16:43:58] <sarthe> im from the past! oooh spooky!
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• 2538[16:44:11] <jhutchins_wk> Not the past I lived.
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• 2544[16:48:12] <sarthe> ok dorothy
• 2545[16:49:19] <jhutchins_wk> Looking at the scrollbuffer, you're editing the wrong file and are surprized when it doesn't do what you expect.
• 2546[16:49:46] <jhutchins_wk> sarthe: You really should read the documentation.
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• 2550[16:50:58] <sarthe> im reading man grub-install right now, but you keep interrupting. do you have a suggestion thats quicker?
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• 2553[16:52:06] <OS-53842> bruce machine hint
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• 2555[16:52:46] <jhutchins_wk> sarthe: Do you know how to use the apropos command?
• 2556[16:52:55] <sarthe> sure
• 2557[16:54:18] <jhutchins_wk> Wow, so many relevant google hits for "debian grub config".
• 2558[16:54:46] <Burek> try using bing of irrelevant hits
• 2559[16:55:15] <Burek> for*
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• 2569[16:59:10] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: sarthe has at least 2 root filesystems and it's unclear from the symptoms which grub is active right now (I'm going with "wrong one"). Telling them to JFGI when they were already pointed at !fixgrub seems counterproductive
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• 2574[17:02:38] <B|ack0p> hi. is it possible to add "show desktop" icon on gnome classic down bar?
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• 2584[17:10:06] <sarthe> hmm, is it possible that EFI only 'supports' 4 partitions? I vaguely remember reading that somewhere
• 2585[17:10:42] <j4m3s__> sarthe: MBR does, I don't think efi has this limitation
• 2586[17:10:50] <sarthe> ...so the bios or whatever you pedantic motherfuckers want to call it, cant see my root partition on sdb8?
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• 2589[17:11:26] <sarthe> hmm, ok
• 2590[17:11:39] <greycat> "4 partition limit" is for primary partitions on msdos/mbr setups, not EFI
• 2591[17:12:09] <greycat> err, I mean, not gpt
• 2592[17:12:16] <sarthe> i got you
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• 2597[17:14:06] <sarthe> (i knew about that, but i thought i read a similar thing for EFI - must have been by some confused guy)
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• 2601[17:14:35] <sarthe> GPT.. sigh
• 2602[17:15:01] <j4m3s__> question for grub, is it possible to have secure boot w/o shim ? I correctly boot grub but it says 'invalid signature' when loading the kernel. I looked at the source, and it seems it's only possible to have signature verification through shim...
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• 2620[17:26:49] <wild_buffalo> Sudo is not asking for password for my user. NOPASSWD is not set on the configuration. I've created a standard user and added it to the sudo group. Does anyone know why this would happen?
• 2621[17:28:01] <greycat> Most likely reason is you already gave the password in this terminal in the last 10-15 minutes (I forget what the default timeout period is).
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• 2630[17:29:50] <wild_buffalo> greycat: I thought of that, but normally if you start a new session the timeout ends, no?
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• 2633[17:30:06] <wild_buffalo> I just opened a fresh session and did sudo and no password prompt
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• 2636[17:30:26] <greycat> not sure what kind of "session" you mean
• 2637[17:30:27] <wild_buffalo> Is it possible that the timeout is deactivated somehow?
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• 2640[17:31:24] <wild_buffalo> greycat: well, I opened a new terminal and did a new ssh connection
• 2641[17:31:41] <sarthe> ok, so all the options for install-grub try to fix your / being different than what it already is. thats not the case here. i know! whats the package that was likely used to install grub for debian 7/8? I'll try the windos way and just --purge/--reinstall after deleting the wrong partition again?
• 2642[17:31:51] <BCMM> actually, how *is* the sudo timeout implemented? is there a file in /var/ or something?
• 2643[17:31:52] <wild_buffalo> but at any rate it afaik it hasn't asked for my password since I provisioned this server
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• 2648[17:32:22] <greycat> man page says there's "sudo -k" and "sudo -K" to remove your cached credentials
• 2649[17:32:34] <sarthe> from memory that did work once before
• 2650[17:32:35] <wild_buffalo> OK let me give that a go
• 2651[17:33:06] <wild_buffalo> ran sudo -K
• 2652[17:33:11] <wild_buffalo> still not asking for password
• 2653[17:33:39] *** Quits: corvo (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2654[17:33:47] <wild_buffalo> Is it possible that it has something to do with me connecting via SSH by key instead of password?
• 2655[17:34:01] <greycat> it shouldn't
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• 2658[17:34:18] <wild_buffalo> right, that's what I thought
• 2659[17:34:21] <BCMM> wild_buffalo: are you definitely not ssh'ed as root?
• 2660[17:34:30] <wild_buffalo> no, ssh'd as the user
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• 2664[17:35:49] <wild_buffalo> the user only belongs to two groups, sudo and its own group
• 2665[17:35:53] <sarthe> wild_buffalo, sudoers is complex, without giving anything away, you probably need to show it
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• 2668[17:36:28] <wild_buffalo> sarthe: I just looked at it, and it's literally the default sudoers file
• 2669[17:36:37] <wild_buffalo> Perhaps there's some file under sudoers.d?
• 2670[17:36:44] <wild_buffalo> let me check
• 2671[17:37:07] <karlpinc> wild_buffalo: Maybe your clock has stopped? ;-)
• 2672[17:37:08] <wild_buffalo> Ah, found the culprit
• 2673[17:37:11] <sarthe> ugh.. why did they do this bla.d shit :/
• 2674[17:37:17] <wild_buffalo> There's some file called waagent
• 2675[17:37:29] <wild_buffalo> Which sets my user to NOPASSWD
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• 2678[17:37:49] <ratrace> uh-oh
• 2679[17:37:58] <wild_buffalo> That's... strange. I provisioned this user with Ansible, so maybe Ansible has something to do with it?
• 2680[17:38:11] <ratrace> not on its own
• 2681[17:38:32] <wild_buffalo> ah, Google tells me what it is
• 2682[17:38:35] <wild_buffalo> Azure put it there
• 2683[17:38:38] <greycat> Windows Azure Linux Agent (waagent) - (on Linux VM ...
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• 2686[17:38:40] <wild_buffalo> sigh
• 2687[17:38:52] <greycat> yeah, that's what I was rdading too...
• 2688[17:39:02] <greycat> reading
• 2689[17:39:14] <wild_buffalo> yeah. Thanks for the help with the detective work folks
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• 2692[17:39:58] <sarthe> -1 for random, pointless directories containing extra configuration. who's idea was that?
• 2693[17:40:15] <wild_buffalo> sarthe: tbh I kind of like that
• 2694[17:40:26] <ratrace> they're useful for automation and packages to drop-in config snippets
• 2695[17:40:27] <wild_buffalo> it makes me not mess around with the default OS config files
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• 2697[17:40:40] <sarthe> clearly you dont, you just got arseraped by one :)
• 2698[17:40:49] <greycat> no, it's good. it means packages can put a file there to configure stuff, instead of the incredibly horrifying "write a sed script to modify this human-readable text config file" nightmare that I cannot ever escape from as long as newbies continue using unix
• 2699[17:40:52] <ratrace> I wish more things followed that pattern.
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• 2702[17:41:20] <wild_buffalo> sarthe: technically, the culprit is Azure, not the idea of using this system
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• 2705[17:41:38] <wild_buffalo> But I should've known better and checked there first, since I use those folders often
• 2706[17:41:45] <greycat> if sudoers.d didn't exist, azure would have written some horrible code to try to modify /etc/sudoers directly
• 2707[17:41:47] <sarthe> ive been abused by it hundreds of other times
• 2708[17:42:23] <wild_buffalo> Like greycat said, when I'm provisioning a server all I need to do is deploy configuration files for each service, instead of hacking around with sed or w/e else
• 2709[17:42:49] <sarthe> i know its nice to keep the OS clean, but thats what .dpkg-deb backup files are for
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• 2711[17:42:56] <greycat> now go teach every single newbie in #bash why that's ... never mind, they will never listen
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• 2716[17:43:56] <wild_buffalo> sarthe: idk not all OSs use apt, although I'm sure most have a substitute to that
• 2717[17:44:02] <wild_buffalo> anyway
• 2718[17:44:17] <sarthe> most of 'em are based on debian, so yeah
• 2719[17:45:00] <sarthe> anyway, indeed
• 2720[17:45:02] <ctcx> Is Debian Buster's initrd finally fixed to support loopback devices (iso-scan)? replaced-url
• 2721[17:45:16] <ctcx> Or devs decided never to add it for installer ISO?
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• 2727[17:47:02] <hdt551> I am developing a custom circuit board to be a usb device and am testing how it connects using a buster install by tailing /var/log/messages.
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• 2729[17:47:17] <hdt551> It will connect, then disconnect maybe 3 or 4 minutes later. After that,
• 2730[17:47:18] <hdt551> It will not connect again for some time, say 10 minutes.
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• 2733[17:47:44] <hdt551> Is there a setting
• 2734[17:47:44] <hdt551> in linux which says ignore a usb device for n minutes if it didn't connect
• 2735[17:47:44] <hdt551> correctly?
• 2736[17:48:07] <hdt551> I believe I read somewhere windows does this but I could find no information about linux.
• 2737[17:48:29] <hdt551> Or, maybe /var/log/messages is limiting the logging from the usb subsystem?
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• 2741[17:51:45] <sarthe> anyone else know what 'buster' is?
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• 2746[17:52:16] <sarthe> i do a bit of EE programming, so i might try to help this guy...
• 2747[17:52:24] <greycat> !buster
• 2748[17:52:25] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see replaced-url
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• 2750[17:52:42] <sarthe> haha
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• 2753[17:52:59] <sarthe> that makes me feel old
• 2754[17:54:12] <sarthe> hdt551, if you just slurp up the output from the debian system, there should be no troubles
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• 2759[17:56:19] <hdt551> sarthe: I'm not sure what output from debian you mean, other than /var/log/messages where would I get details
• 2760[17:56:28] <hdt551> about the usb responses?
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• 2763[17:57:07] <sarthe> if you just listen and dont POLL, it should be fine... i assume youre using some wierd kernel module that connects syslog to usb?
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• 2765[17:57:21] <jelly> developing hw or hw drivers is not exactly a distro-specific issue
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• 2767[17:57:54] <hdt551> sarthe: No new drivers in linux. The board will be a HID device (mouse).
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• 2769[17:58:05] <sarthe> true, and if youre polling, you'd have to look at the specific driver i guess
• 2770[17:58:20] <jelly> I'd go with, uh, #kernelnewbies on irc.oftc.net maybe?
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• 2776[17:59:20] <BCMM> there's a ##kernel here on freenode too
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• 2778[17:59:50] <sarthe> hmm, usb mouses need to be polled alot... but they dont get access to syslog
• 2779[18:00:03] <sarthe> explain?
• 2780[18:00:41] <atralheaven> with nginx, which user and group should own the http dir and its subdirs? what about the files?
• 2781[18:00:42] <hdt551> I am talking about standard logging messages that appear, just like if you plugged in a usb device in.
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• 2783[18:01:05] <hdt551> It will say what kind of device etc.
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• 2786[18:01:08] <greycat> atralheaven: it's up to you. I'd go with root unless you have a specific reason to have someone else own it.
• 2787[18:01:19] <sarthe> hdt551, wait, youre saying the HOST system is producing alot of error messages from your device?
• 2788[18:01:31] <greycat> atralheaven: e.g. "my web application has to modify these files" or "my group of employees all need to modify them"
• 2789[18:01:53] <hdt551> It seems like this logging is disabled from some reason for a few minutes after the device is not working correctly.
• 2790[18:02:21] <hdt551> (I know that is not, I'm working on it), but it will not show any other connection attempts for
• 2791[18:02:34] <BCMM> hdt551: could be an intentional thing to stop the log getting spammed
• 2792[18:02:43] <hdt551> several minutes.
• 2793[18:02:49] <sarthe> hdt551, if your electronics are malfunctioning, yes... especially if they are the same error messages. it will concatonate them.
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• 2797[18:03:19] <BCMM> it's always a pain when dmesg fills up with some repetitive message so you can't access the message that signaled the initial cause of the problem
• 2798[18:03:26] <hdt551> BCMM: that is what I was wondering but I can't find any information on where you could disable that.
• 2799[18:03:28] <sarthe> there is a setting to disable, but 1) why not fix the 1st syslog error, and 2) there is a buffer
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• 2801[18:04:19] <hdt551> Since it is a hardware debugging issue I need to see all the connection attempts no matter how much it fills messages.
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• 2803[18:04:42] <c-c> Hi. I'm going to upgrade hw: mobo+cpu+mem. Is apt get update before hw upgrade enough, do you think?
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• 2806[18:05:25] <sarthe> used to be syslog.conf, but now its probably buried in syslog.d/random-noise
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• 2816[18:07:52] <c-c> Someone mentioned theres maybe a way to create a restore image of the working system before the update
• 2817[18:08:01] <atralheaven> greycat: it's a personal VPS that only I use it, I've set permission for dirs to 755, but I get 443 error with main user or replaced-url
• 2818[18:08:48] <hdt551> sarthe: I will check for how to disable the log-throttling in the syslog settings. Thank you for your help.
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• 2821[18:09:50] <greycat> atralheaven: look for errors in the log file. It's probably something wrong in the configuration file for this domain.
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• 2826[18:10:22] <ctcx> Ok, guess not
• 2827[18:11:02] <sarthe> hdt551, please also check /etc/init.d/syslog for hidden options
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• 2830[18:11:34] <sarthe> hmm, they dont seem to use syslogd anymore...
• 2831[18:11:54] <greycat> Debian uses rsyslogd now.
• 2832[18:12:12] <sarthe> well check the init.d for that then
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• 2836[18:12:31] <ctcx> I'm trying to install Debian using loopback device in order to install from an ISO file in a file system. I already read Debian's installer ISO initrd has no support for it, and I should risk by trying hd-media's initrd.
• 2837[18:12:36] *** Joins: dec2200 (~n2499@replaced-ip)
• 2838[18:12:37] <sarthe> often options are hidden in there
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• 2840[18:12:53] <ctcx> But here replaced-url
• 2841[18:13:08] <ctcx> But I fail to understand very well this alternative. Could someone help?
• 2842[18:13:39] <sarthe> greycat, why the 'r'?
• 2843[18:13:59] <greycat> ,info rsyslogd
• 2844[18:13:59] <sarthe> does it make it special somehow? :)
• 2845[18:14:00] <judd> No package named 'rsyslogd' was found in buster/amd64.
• 2846[18:14:02] <greycat> ,info rsyslog
• 2847[18:14:03] <judd> Package rsyslog (admin, important) in buster/amd64: reliable system and kernel logging daemon. Version: 8.1901.0-1; Size: 642.8k; Installed: 1812k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2848[18:14:14] <atralheaven> greycat: is it possible to generate a new, default config file?
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• 2854[18:14:45] <greycat> atralheaven: you could extract the .deb file in a temp directory, or purge and reinstall the package
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• 2857[18:15:22] <sarthe> *shrug*
• 2858[18:15:40] <jelly> !confnew
• 2859[18:15:40] <dpkg> [confnew] dpkg --force-confnew will force dpkg to overwrite any changes you have made to conffiles. You can also reinstall them using the following apt-get line: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" --reinstall install <packagename>; or using aptitude, aptitude -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" reinstall <packagename>. See also <confmiss>.
• 2860[18:16:11] <jelly> atralheaven: ^ ?
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• 2863[18:16:49] <sarthe> (heh, i bet i know - the bsd people got annoyed)
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• 2865[18:17:10] <atralheaven> greycat, jelly: thanks :)
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• 2891[18:25:51] <eblip> hey it seems vim on debian doesnt have nerdtree..doesnt have vim notes...doesnt have + and * registers
• 2892[18:26:16] <eblip> surely vim is like one of the most important assest for a linux and debian only has like half a version
• 2893[18:26:21] <eblip> it must be a joke
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• 2895[18:26:46] <eblip> how is that even possible
• 2896[18:26:53] <eblip> its meant to be debian not ubuntu
• 2897[18:27:28] <somiaj> that is not a support question. Didn't I link you to the bugs showing the state of this. These are additional plugins. People use vim in debian just fine. If you want those plugins, install them in $HOME
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• 2900[18:27:55] <eblip> yes i found the plugins samiaj...but there isnt one for + and * registers
• 2901[18:28:25] <eblip> these are raw basic things that absolutely every single linux user on the planet needs ..but debian doesnt have it
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• 2906[18:29:56] <greycat> Now you're just trolling.
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• 2908[18:30:05] <eblip> i dont troll greycat
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• 2911[18:30:18] <eblip> im seriously frustrated ..i mean its 2019
• 2912[18:30:41] <greycat> If this bothers you so much, then go use something else.
• 2913[18:30:44] <eblip> i had to wipe a business machine ..a main machine and wanted something that wasnt flashy
• 2914[18:30:45] <ratrace> I'm a vim user... never realized what I was missing...
• 2915[18:30:48] <digdilem> at the risk of exploding your brain, eblip, i don't use nerdtree and don't much care about it
• 2916[18:30:49] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 2917[18:31:00] <ratrace> had to look it up
• 2918[18:31:06] <eblip> yes but how many vim files do you have open digdilem
• 2919[18:31:10] <greycat> I've been using vim roughly 20 years and I've never even *heard* of these things.
• 2920[18:31:14] <eblip> i typically have between 30 and 60
• 2921[18:31:19] <digdilem> oh, shedloads mate. i use vim a lot
• 2922[18:31:20] <eblip> i need to easily navigate
• 2923[18:31:32] <eblip> and nerdtree makes it possible
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• 2926[18:31:39] <greycat> So install it.
• 2927[18:31:44] * digdilem shrugs and reduces his care level one more point
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• 2929[18:31:51] <eblip> how can i install * and + registers
• 2930[18:31:58] <greycat> ask #vim
• 2931[18:32:00] <ratrace> eblip: sounds like atypical use. something you might wish to customize and tune your vim for.
• 2932[18:32:15] <eblip> i dont think its poossible without going outside the repo
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• 2935[18:32:27] <eblip> and picking up a completely different binary
• 2936[18:33:09] <sarthe> eblip, hmm, dont remember 'vim' on SunOS 5 systems.
• 2937[18:33:21] <sarthe> i think they called it 'vi'
• 2938[18:33:25] <eblip> cool
• 2939[18:33:44] <ratrace> eblip: you can install nerdtree by dropping the plugin in your ~/.vim
• 2940[18:34:12] <ratrace> or use any of the many vim package managers
• 2941[18:34:27] <eblip> yes nerdtree and vim notes are installable
• 2942[18:34:34] <eblip> but what about + and - registers
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• 2946[18:35:07] * greycat waits for any indication that any person other than you knows what "+ and - registers" means
• 2947[18:35:11] <ratrace> eblip: for x11 clipboard?
• 2948[18:35:35] <greycat> or "* and + registers" as you called it earlier
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• 2952[18:36:41] <ratrace> eblip: is this relevant? replaced-url
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• 2955[18:36:52] <somiaj> eblip: you have come in here assuming that your needs are everyones needs. Debian is run by volunteers, and in my experience these things not being in debian hasn't come up until today.
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• 2959[18:37:35] <somiaj> though as I showed you there are RFP bugs on this, and the matiners were thinking of adding this to vim-scripts, but due to some reason (wasn't clear in the bug report) it hasn't been added. But that doesn't mean you can't just install it in $HOME and move on.
• 2960[18:37:38] <sarthe> urk.
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• 2963[18:38:31] <sarthe> relax. if he wants a better VI, point him towards X11
• 2964[18:38:51] <sarthe> and xterm or whatever that one with the tabs is.
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• 2967[18:39:09] <sarthe> jesus!
• 2968[18:39:10] <greycat> you're really just typing random things you've heard of, aren't you...
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• 2971[18:40:11] <sarthe> ..appears to be called 'gnome terminal'
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• 2974[18:40:42] <greycat> sarthe: when you used the word "VI" just now, what did you think it meant?
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• 2976[18:41:00] <sarthe> well... man vi?
• 2977[18:41:01] *** Joins: chele (~chele@replaced-ip)
• 2978[18:41:15] <greycat> I feel like everyone else is on one page, and you're in a different book.
• 2979[18:41:18] <sarthe> although its been replaced by vim now, so...
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• 2982[18:41:44] <sarthe> you never heard of vi?
• 2983[18:42:01] <greycat> I'm wondering if *you* have, because you seem to think it's a terminal emulator.
• 2984[18:42:08] <sarthe> before that, people used to use 'ed' god that was awful
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• 2987[18:43:14] <sarthe> er, no, that idiot is expecting too much from a console editor, i suggested, much like Sun did in the '90s, a graphics based one instead.
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• 2990[18:43:54] <sarthe> sadly, Sun is now Oracle, and everyone calls 'directories' 'folders', so there you have it.
• 2991[18:43:55] <somiaj> sarthe: please do not call other users idiots. People have the freedom to choose what software they want. In this case the plugins they want are easily installed in $HOME since debian doesn't provide them.
• 2992[18:44:39] <sarthe> you YOURSELF was inferring he was an idiot... are you serious?
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• 2996[18:45:16] <greycat> I'm still wondering what "* and + registers" means.
• 2997[18:45:18] <sarthe> i have no problem with the plugins, but you guys really wrangled that out of the poor guy
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• 3001[18:45:54] <sarthe> a vim thing, no doubt
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• 3003[18:46:08] <sarthe> never heard of em either
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• 3006[18:47:23] <sarthe> hmm, time for a history lesson, kids. Who remembers emacs?
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• 3008[18:47:44] <sarthe> no? because it got bloated with crap and because unusable.
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• 3011[18:48:50] <sarthe> there was a big, funny war at the time though... are you going to recreate it?
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• 3013[18:49:39] <libreVodka> did emacs ceist to exist?
• 3014[18:49:59] <greycat> Nope. It's still here.
• 3015[18:50:01] <sarthe> i think some people still keep it 'for prosperity'
• 3016[18:50:10] <libreVodka> had me wondering there
• 3017[18:50:19] <greycat> ,v emacs25
• 3018[18:50:21] <judd> Package: emacs25 on amd64 -- stretch: 25.1+1-4+deb9u1; stretch-security: 25.1+1-4+deb9u1; buster: 1:26.1+1-3.2; buster-proposed-updates: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; buster-updates: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1
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• 3021[18:51:44] <greycat> libreVodka: sarthe appears to be having some sort of dissociative episode. I'd just ignore what he's saying for now.
• 3022[18:52:26] <sarthe> greycat, im starting to wonder what planet YOURE on, mate
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• 3026[18:53:02] <greycat> Earth. A.D. 2019. We have multiple text editors in Debian, and people are free to use whichever one(s) they like. vim and emacs are both still quite popular.
• 3027[18:53:05] <sarthe> ...denieing the emacs vs vi war...
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• 3029[18:53:38] <sarthe> let me guess, you are 12?
• 3030[18:53:48] <sarthe> youve never used a landline?
• 3031[18:53:51] <libreVodka> I find vi/vim totally not user friendly, never tried emacs
• 3032[18:53:52] <somiaj> I think it is now emacs26
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• 3034[18:54:06] <sarthe> or fucked around with ISDN?
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• 3037[18:54:10] *** somiaj sets mode: -o somiaj
• 3038[18:54:22] <greycat> oh, I was just about to /ignore him, but that works
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• 3044[18:55:12] <greycat> ,v emacs-gtk
• 3045[18:55:13] <judd> Package: emacs-gtk on amd64 -- buster: 1:26.1+1-3.2; buster-proposed-updates: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; buster-updates: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:26.1+1-4; sid: 1:26.3+1-1
• 3046[18:55:35] <greycat> Apparently emacs21, emacs22, ..., emacs25 are "transitional packages" that bring in emacs-gtk.
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• 3051[18:56:13] <jelly> ,v emacs26
• 3052[18:56:14] <judd> No package named 'emacs26' was found in amd64.
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• 3069[18:59:32] <somiaj> Ahh, didn't realize it changed its name, metapkacage emacs points to various emacs-foo packages all version 26. Must have been only emacs26 for a short time in testing (or my memory is flawed, which is possible)
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• 3075[19:02:34] <hdt551> looking at rsyslog, it seems it only starts rat limiting if a process send more than 200 messages in 5 seconds.
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• 3077[19:03:18] <hdt551> So that is probably not why I don't see repeated connects, it must be the usb system itself which ignores
• 3078[19:03:37] <hdt551> failed reconnects for a few minutes.
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• 3104[19:15:51] <apurv> Hi, does anyone know when will Plasma 5.16 be available in Sid?
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• 3121[19:22:43] <nifker> What web interface does debian provide in their repos for Asterisk?
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• 3123[19:22:50] <nifker> I cant find any
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• 3150[19:30:49] <nifker> Not even freepbx...
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• 3170[19:37:54] <XsiSec> Hi guys how can I install libgnutls26:amd64 for debian stretch? I cant make it work :(
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• 3174[19:38:43] <wrksx> I thought wsl was the holy grail
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• 3176[19:39:12] <wrksx> but it's not
• 3177[19:39:21] <jim> it probably is holey
• 3178[19:39:21] <greycat> ,v libgnutls30
• 3179[19:39:22] <judd> Package: libgnutls30 on amd64 -- stretch-security: 3.5.8-5+deb9u1; stretch: 3.5.8-5+deb9u4; buster: 3.6.7-4; bullseye: 3.6.9-5; sid: 3.6.9-5; experimental: 3.6.9-6
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• 3182[19:40:05] <wrksx> jim: haha indeed
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• 3184[19:40:23] <wrksx> made me laught quite a bit
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• 3186[19:40:36] <greycat> XsiSec: what are you actually trying to do?
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• 3191[19:42:33] <XsiSec> I trying to install a program that have that dependency
• 3192[19:42:54] <wrksx> I know this is not supported here but... any idea if there is an easy way to create my bootable usb stick from an iso in win 10?
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• 3196[19:43:07] <greycat> well, replaced-url
• 3197[19:43:08] <greycat> have fun?
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• 3200[19:43:37] <greycat> libgnutls26_2.12.23-18_amd64.deb
• 3201[19:43:37] <greycat> Seen in debian on 2014-08-23 21:58:02 in /pool/main/g/gnutls26.
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• 3203[19:43:51] <wrksx> maybe there there is a windows channel somewhere around
• 3204[19:43:58] <XsiSec> hmm
• 3205[19:44:36] <wrksx> Okay #windows exists, gonna ask there
• 3206[19:44:50] <wrksx> if you have an idea feel free to let me know =)
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• 3209[19:44:58] <XsiSec> greycat, it I am not sure which of all those works but I get following error 'Dependency is not satisfiable: libgnutls26'
• 3210[19:45:10] <XsiSec> (when I trying to install the program itself)
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• 3213[19:45:42] <ctcx> Er, the channel is windows, with double
• 3214[19:46:01] <ctcx> Nevermind, guy already entered.
• 3215[19:46:06] <wrksx> sure thing, I've been redirected there
• 3216[19:46:14] <wrksx> but thanks mate =)
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• 3232[19:52:39] <nifker> Does debian hold any asterisk web interface in their repositories?
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• 3236[19:53:47] <ctcx> What's the debian.org correct link to download hd-media vmlinuz and initrd? Google searches throw either ftp.ddbian.org, or http.us.debian.org....
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• 3261[20:07:05] <fs1> Hello, I have AX 200 WiFi card, when running Debian weekly it asks for firmware, I have already put firmware on the root of the USB and press yes to load it but it still keeps asking for firmware, why?
• 3262[20:07:20] <fs1> I tried the non-free unofficial iso but it also asks for firmware
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• 3264[20:08:21] <pium> #ve-minetest-servers
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• 3297[20:20:05] <eblip> hey somiaj, i have installed vim-gtk.
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• 3301[20:20:22] <eblip> do i need to uninstall vim
• 3302[20:20:35] <eblip> or will my system just jump to using vim-gtk
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• 3304[20:21:39] <greycat> ls -l /usr/bin/vim /etc/alternatives/vim
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• 3308[20:23:21] <ratrace> eblip: vim-gtk fixed your issue?
• 3309[20:23:33] <eblip> yes so far it appears to
• 3310[20:23:42] <eblip> i have my register ..just testing now
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• 3312[20:23:53] <ratrace> because it was mentioned as solution in that page I linked you with
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• 3314[20:24:12] <eblip> yes thanks ratrace..it needed gtk
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• 3318[20:24:30] <eblip> so i didnt bother...but i later found out that i had gtk for use by firefox and possibly other things
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• 3322[20:24:59] <eblip> i only have a windowing system on my machine xmonad
• 3323[20:25:04] <eblip> so i didnt want that bloat...
• 3324[20:25:15] <eblip> but now i know i already have it ...so its a great solution
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• 3343[20:35:04] <nixonix> ideas for a slow boot, after transfering the os partition from a 12 year old hdd to ssd with fsarchiver (to a smaller partition than the original)? systemd-analyze time: Startup finished in 30.905s (kernel) + 2.087s (userspace)
• 3344[20:35:29] <nixonix> systemd-analyze blame is ok. created a new initrd, didnt help
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• 3346[20:36:02] <greycat> well, you read the output of systemd-analyze blame, which you have already run, and it tells you what took the most time...
• 3347[20:36:05] <nixonix> after "loading initial ramdisk" its stuck for awhile
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• 3353[20:36:43] <nixonix> everything is ok in blame, now slowdowns showing there
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• 3356[20:37:19] <nixonix> boot time is around 35 secs, when it should be under 10
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• 3358[20:38:08] <nixonix> i wonder if its because the hdd was very old, 12 year old, maybe some ahci protocol thing or something
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• 3362[20:40:08] <nixonix> (couldnt get windows to boot after transfering that to ssd, with method that has always worked for me, using acronis. checked the bcd, no problem there, so maybe similar cause there, like ahci or something of the old hdd)
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• 3364[20:40:47] <nixonix> and the same slowiness with other linuxes that i moved, besides debian
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• 3379[20:46:05] <jhutchins_wk> wrksx: I found it very annoying. One of the great things about linux is being able to mess with the lower-level configurations, in wsl you can't even set the DNS resolvers.
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• 3382[20:47:18] <nixonix> "everything is ok in blame, now slowdowns showing there" -> "no slowdowns there"
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• 3401[20:54:45] <jhutchins_wk> nixonix: Are you using DHCP?
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• 3404[20:55:56] <nixonix> yeah, but my other machines boot in 5-10 secs from ssd
• 3405[20:57:10] <jhutchins_wk> nixonix: So try swapping drives.
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• 3409[20:57:34] <jhutchins_wk> nixonix: Slow network cofiguration is what delays mine.
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• 3414[20:58:41] <nixonix> i have to make a new install of some distro, see if it boots normally. if not, then i guess try removing the old hdds that i have 2 in that machine, if they cause the slowiness in boot somehow (2 of 12 year old hdds for data in that machine)
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• 3418[20:59:52] <jhutchins_wk> nixonix: It could also be a slow data bus. There's been a lot of improvement in 12 years.
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• 3423[21:01:38] <nixonix> silly to spend time to save 20 secs for a boot. but mysteries annoy me...
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• 3434[21:06:17] <nixonix> it doesnt show up with journal -b, the jamming is before that
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• 3443[21:10:32] <Bacteria> how do i install svn again?
• 3444[21:10:47] <greycat> the pkg name is subversion, IIRC
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• 3449[21:13:01] <jhutchins_wk> Bacteria: Not using git?
• 3450[21:13:30] <Bacteria> i am
• 3451[21:13:39] <Bacteria> lol which is why i forgot how to use svn
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• 3455[21:14:17] <nkuttler> Bacteria: see also git-svn
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• 3458[21:15:01] <Bacteria> yeah i already converted all the svn repo to git w that
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• 3467[21:18:48] <nixonix> are wd reds still good? 4 tb non-pro? silent, reliable, non-vibrating. or better alternatives, for like hundo for 4 tb? (could also buy 8tb wd my book with helium inside for under 150, but that would be for pc, so theres that pin thing, and also they are noisier)
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• 3473[21:21:54] <jhutchins_wk> 4TB on one falible device. Scary.
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• 3475[21:22:48] <Non-ICE> pricing $/Tb for 4tb and 10tb are not too far apart these days....
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• 3477[21:22:58] <SerajewelKS> i use wd red in my nas, but they are in a mirror
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• 3482[21:23:50] <jhutchins_wk> I wouldn't want that much data that was not in a RAID, even with backups.
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• 3484[21:24:09] <nixonix> i backup my important data in several machines, and nas waiting for installing debian to it when i find my serial cable for that somewhere... and we could all die any time, anyway
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• 3486[21:24:12] <SerajewelKS> i'm starting to use mirroring everywhere i can, even on my workstation
• 3487[21:24:26] <SerajewelKS> the cost of my time dealing with a disk failure is much less than ~$100 on a second drive
• 3488[21:24:34] <SerajewelKS> much more(
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• 3490[21:24:50] <jhutchins_wk> Storage is pretty cheap these days.
• 3491[21:25:16] <SerajewelKS> obviously there are also backups
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• 3494[21:25:29] <jhutchins_wk> I have an 18" 1MB removable platter somewhere here. That probably cost four figures.
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• 3496[21:25:40] <SerajewelKS> but buying a new drive and swapping it out is much easier than rebuilding a system from a backup
• 3497[21:26:11] <Non-ICE> depends on your backup solution
• 3498[21:26:24] <SerajewelKS> well let's put it another way
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• 3500[21:26:42] <SerajewelKS> with a mirror i can still _use_ the machine while i'm acquiring the new drive and the RAID is rebuilding
• 3501[21:26:43] <nixonix> i dont really need my collection of gold rushes, deadly catches etc, but they are still nice to have around, because everything that comes from tv will be unwatchable dancing shows etc in the future...
• 3502[21:27:02] <SerajewelKS> backups are good but i'd rather not have to _stop working_ while i fix the problem
• 3503[21:27:20] <jhutchins_wk> SerajewelKS: Yup, that's what raid is for.
• 3504[21:27:40] <SerajewelKS> and $100-$150 is a pretty damn cheap insurance policy against my time
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• 3507[21:28:05] <Non-ICE> i just always keep a spare drive around and reinstalling proxmox goes in 10 minutes and just dump the backups back from the raidnas
• 3508[21:28:38] <SerajewelKS> i'd rather have the spare mirroring the system and keeping it alive, but that's just me *shrug*
• 3509[21:29:05] <nixonix> so wd reds still way to go?
• 3510[21:29:27] <Non-ICE> some of us have a thin wallet
• 3511[21:29:30] <SerajewelKS> i'm starting to use ocdroid-hc2's for serving iscsi to my primary NAS. they're cheaper per bay than any NAS i can find and the storage can be exported to any device on the network.
• 3512[21:29:37] <Non-ICE> its cheaper to keep an unused drive around then to use 2 drives
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• 3537[21:39:27] <Non-ICE> done hammering the server eyt, xedniv?
• 3538[21:39:30] <Non-ICE> yet*
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• 3540[21:40:49] <greycat> !don't break debian
• 3541[21:40:49] <dpkg> somebody said dont break debian was replaced-url
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• 3596[22:05:07] <B|ack0p> how can i show desktop icon on bottom bar of gnome classic?
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• 3736[23:10:43] <xaeB5> can anyone check why cherrytree isn't packaged in debian buster? i searched packages.debian.org and see it in jessie
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• 3740[23:11:17] <somiaj> ,v cheerytree
• 3741[23:11:18] <judd> No package named 'cheerytree' was found in amd64.
• 3742[23:11:21] <greycat> replaced-url
• 3743[23:11:53] *** Quits: nexgen (~nexgen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3744[23:12:01] <greycat> which links to #867787
• 3745[23:12:02] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 3746[23:12:05] <somiaj> xaeB5: following greycat link one can find this replaced-url
• 3747[23:12:40] *** Joins: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip)
• 3748[23:12:41] <somiaj> which doesn't say much, seems the matainer didn't fix this grave bug, and so debian policy required package be removed from the buster release.
• 3749[23:13:14] <xaeB5> oh ok
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• 3752[23:14:12] <xaeB5> that sucks since i used it as a note management software. anyone know of another good one i can replace it with?
• 3753[23:14:27] <xaeB5> it's similar to onenote on windows
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• 3757[23:15:06] <somiaj> xaeB5: you could install it yourself, and just be aware of the bug.
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• 3759[23:15:25] <somiaj> xaeB5: in this case, the sid version should work, so download the .deb from sid and install it.
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• 3761[23:16:00] <xaeB5> oh ok. thanks
• 3762[23:16:03] <somiaj> you could also get a copy from upstream, and compile it and install it locally in /usr/local or /opt
• 3763[23:16:25] <somiaj> I don't have any suggestion for similar software since I don't use notes.
• 3764[23:17:04] *** Joins: vvor (~vvor@replaced-ip)
• 3765[23:17:08] <xaeB5> really? lol
• 3766[23:17:17] *** Joins: nexgen (~nexgen@replaced-ip)
• 3767[23:17:19] <xaeB5> i have so many text files with random notes
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• 3770[23:22:29] <nixonix> i only trust grep with my notes
• 3771[23:23:48] <xaeB5> what does that even mean
• 3772[23:24:14] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3773[23:24:37] <nixonix> something like this, when reviewing them: ls -trd ~/random_notes/*xt | xargs -d '\n' grep --color=always -ai -C 3 'hwclock' |less -m
• 3774[23:25:11] <greycat> *shudder*
• 3775[23:25:38] *** Quits: nexgen (~nexgen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3776[23:25:48] <mutante> xaeB5: you could install mediawiki
• 3777[23:25:59] <mutante> a wiki is not bad as a note taker
• 3778[23:26:05] <xaeB5> now i know why cherrytree isn't in debian buster. i downloaded the .deb from sid and when installing got this message. this package isn't in stable. cherrytree depends on python-gtksourceview2; however: Package python-gtksourceview2 is not installed.
• 3779[23:26:40] <xaeB5> mutante: i'll check it out thanks
• 3780[23:26:44] <mutante> then you would use a browser to localhost
• 3781[23:26:45] *** Quits: Symdrome (~fabio@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3782[23:27:08] <mutante> gives you revision history and categories / pages to organize
• 3783[23:27:14] <gry> can you please name 2-3 software that has good marketing or documentation?
• 3784[23:28:26] <xaeB5> cool
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• 3788[23:29:17] <FunkyBob> blah... another kernel update, another day fighting with my audio driver config :/
• 3789[23:29:21] <mutante> marketing for free software? hard to think of anything
• 3790[23:29:44] <mutante> good documentation: Arch wiki? heh
• 3791[23:29:51] <greycat> they didn't even specify that it had to be free software
• 3792[23:29:57] *** Quits: Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3793[23:30:15] <mutante> gry: Salesforce, unfortunately
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• 3799[23:31:15] <xaeB5> maybe wordpress
• 3800[23:31:36] *** Joins: nexgen (~nexgen@replaced-ip)
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• 3802[23:32:57] <mutante> so "good" marketing means it works for the company to sell more or the users find it creative/funny/smart
• 3803[23:33:36] <mutante> gry: is that a home work question?
• 3804[23:33:44] <greycat> I thought it was pretty obvious it meant "led to increase in sales or reputation".
• 3805[23:33:45] *** Quits: jubo2 (~jubz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 3806[23:34:03] <greycat> and it most definitely sounds like homework
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• 3809[23:34:41] <mutante> if Automaticc spends a million dollars to generate just one new vip.wordpress.com customer then i guess marketing is not that good. but if they managed to generate 100 new users with 1000 dollars it is very good.
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• 3811[23:35:37] *** Seto_Kaiba is now known as Hunterkll
• 3812[23:35:59] <xaeB5> so why would debian 8 and 10 have a package that 9 doesn't have?
• 3813[23:36:02] <xaeB5> ,v python-gtksourceview2
• 3814[23:36:03] <judd> Package: python-gtksourceview2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.10.1-2; sid: 2.10.1-3; stretch: 2.10.1-3
• 3815[23:36:32] <greycat> Same tracker web site.
• 3816[23:36:37] <greycat> just replace the package name
• 3817[23:36:49] <xaeB5> ok
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• 3822[23:41:54] <eb0t> hey what is the best vim plugin manager to use for vim with debian
• 3823[23:42:41] <stefan2> plain vim :)
• 3824[23:42:46] <FunkyBob> ah, how did I never find this page before? replaced-url
• 3825[23:43:04] <eb0t> no its vim-gtk
• 3826[23:44:02] <mutante> apt-get install because you dont want to install software bypassing the distro package system and there are a bunch of vim plugin packages?
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• 3828[23:44:03] <eb0t> there is something called vim-pathogen but i dont think it is pathogen which people use to manage plugins
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• 3831[23:44:54] <eb0t> i was gonna get what i needed from git...as the plugins i require are not in vim
• 3832[23:45:00] <stefan2> exit
• 3833[23:45:02] <stefan2> exit
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• 3836[23:45:52] <j4m3s__> Question guys. For grub, is it possible to have secure boot w/o shim ? I correctly boot grub but it says 'invalid signature' when loading the kernel. I looked at the source, and it seems it's only possible to have signature verification through shim... (I'm using custom keys)
• 3837[23:46:05] <xaeB5> eb0t: what makes you like vim over cherrytree? i haven't used that one
• 3838[23:46:13] *** Joins: akko (~gentoo@replaced-ip)
• 3839[23:46:24] <eb0t> but git says i have been using vim for many years and am real comfortable with it once set up
• 3840[23:46:28] <eb0t> love it really
• 3841[23:46:36] <xaeB5> do you use GUI with it
• 3842[23:46:38] <eb0t> i use it for everything ..ide ....notes..docs
• 3843[23:46:39] <xaeB5> or just in terminal
• 3844[23:46:42] <eb0t> no just terminal
• 3845[23:46:46] <xaeB5> cool
• 3846[23:47:01] <eb0t> it has saved me so much time for type of things i need to do
• 3847[23:47:22] <eb0t> well vim and sed are like key players for me
• 3848[23:47:45] <xaeB5> i have only used graphical editors, besides nano
• 3849[23:47:49] <eb0t> but i have been having a bit of difficulty setting it up to what i am used to
• 3850[23:48:20] <eb0t> ah ok...i have used nano maybe once or twice ..i think centos installs use it immediatly before you install vim
• 3851[23:48:54] *** Quits: jackalx (~jackal@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3852[23:48:58] <eb0t> i used to do networking and on the servers ...vim is always there
• 3853[23:49:06] <eb0t> god knows abotu cherrytree
• 3854[23:49:12] <eb0t> first time i have ever heard of it
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• 3857[23:49:26] <xaeB5> yea thats not same kind of software, they are unrealted
• 3858[23:49:32] <eb0t> ah ok
• 3859[23:49:49] <xaeB5> i'll try vim. i should learn to graduate from nano
• 3860[23:50:01] *** Joins: poot (my_user@replaced-ip)
• 3861[23:50:14] <eb0t> yes its great ..i mean you can mark all over your docs and jump to mark without scrolling
• 3862[23:50:26] <eb0t> you can do monotonous tasks ...in a macro
• 3863[23:50:34] <eb0t> you can use sed within the editor
• 3864[23:50:38] <xaeB5> nice
• 3865[23:50:40] *** Joins: enoq (~enoq@replaced-ip)
• 3866[23:50:47] <eb0t> and if you have 100 documents open at the same time...its doesnt slow down your machine
• 3867[23:51:02] <eb0t> especially if you use a light terminal...well lightish i use urxvt
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• 3869[23:51:38] <eb0t> plus its got lots of registers so you can cut many many many things and just stick them in a register and paste them whenever you like
• 3870[23:52:05] <eb0t> rather than just cutting one thing and then going and cutting another and it overwrites your thing
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• 3875[23:56:36] <hacktivista> sup
• 3876[23:57:22] <hacktivista> guys... I've noticed that on a fresh debian 10 installation now I can't run super user commands like fdisk, usermod or reboot if not prepending 'sudo'
• 3877[23:57:35] *** Parts: FunkyBob (~curtis@replaced-ip) ()
• 3878[23:57:41] <hacktivista> is this intended? I couldn't find anything about it
• 3879[23:58:06] <humpled> um
• 3880[23:58:11] <humpled> !buster root
• 3881[23:58:20] <humpled> heck
• 3882[23:58:37] *** Joins: gry_ (~gry@replaced-ip)
• 3883[23:59:11] <nixonix> sudo -i
• 3884[23:59:25] <nixonix> if the user is in wheel
• 3885[23:59:35] <humpled> or su -
• 3886[23:59:48] <humpled> if they have a root password
• ↑top