People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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3 [00:04:24] <humbabl> woo handwritten cracking software
4 [00:06:00] <iwkse> hi, do you know where is possible to find a repo that still have squeeze?
5 [00:07:01] <dvs> !squeeze sources.list
6 [00:07:02] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" has two lines: "deb replaced-url
7 [00:07:30] <iwkse> dvs: thanks :-)
8 [00:07:38] <dvs> np
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39 [00:40:31] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I have a machine with a number of users that are supposed to be restricted. However on one of the restricted ones, let's say user1, if I know admin1's password, I can still mount things via udisks with user1. Why is that?
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41 [00:40:50] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I setup pam.d to require "wheel" and only admin1 is in "sudoers".
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49 [00:44:11] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Is it some polkit default rule?
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58 [00:49:26] <somiaj> You aren't clear, this user knows admin1's password, so then that user can become admin1 and do things.
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61 [00:50:28] <Bird|otherbox> what am I supposed to do if a) sid is too new (so the "simple sid backport" is no good) and b) oldoldstable is too old (and no longer has a backports repo available for it). is it a sign I need to dist-upgrade the box in question?
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63 [00:52:23] <dvs> Bird|otherbox, if that box is stretch, security updates will run out next July so it's up to you.
64 [00:52:25] <karlpinc`> Bird|otherbox: Upgrade. Follow the instructions in the release notes.
65 [00:53:05] <Bird|otherbox> dvs: worse, jessie (or well, a LMDE build based on jessie, even)
66 [00:53:43] <dvs> Bird|otherbox, oh then upgrade. There are no more security updates for that.
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68 [00:54:02] <Bird|otherbox> yeah, I think this will drive me to upgrade then
69 [00:54:06] <karlpinc`> Bird|otherbox: While you're at it, upgrade twice. ;) (You can only upgrade from one major release to the next.)
70 [00:55:04] <karlpinc`> dvs: Well, there's long term support, which supports some packages with security updates. But I don't know how you check if your packages are supported.
71 [00:55:39] <dvs> karlpinc`, but that's only for 5 years, right? For jessie, it runs out next year.
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99 [01:19:22] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> somiaj: Except it shouldn't, because I disabled "su"
100 [01:19:28] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> somiaj: It also isn't in sudoers.
101 [01:19:36] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> It should be unable to do so despite information leaking.
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103 [01:20:13] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> somiaj: Only admin1 is in "wheel"
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126 [01:24:57] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Of course this supposes users aren't locally accessing the server and that SSH is key-only. My scenario is "one of the users gets compromised, how do I prevent them from messing with everyone else?"
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128 [01:25:32] <warsoul> im doing a new installation on a new pc? can i backup all my settings and everthing from my old pc?
129 [01:25:36] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Quotas for disk & cpu shenanigans exist, but that doesn't help if they can just guess an admin's password.
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131 [01:28:13] <swift110> got debian 10 32 bit version live usb done
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133 [01:28:44] <humbot> nice, takes a while doesn't it
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136 [01:29:17] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Cheap flash-drives generally write pretty slowly.
137 [01:29:45] <humbot> building the iso is a lot like doing an install
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161 [01:52:33] <mishehu> is there some sort of a repo for legacy packages or something of that nature? I need to run some php scripts that will not work on php 7 (and I need ot run tests before I complete my refactoring for them to work on php 7). Is there an "official" repo that might have php5 for buster? I'm coming up a bit empty-handed with my google-fu.
162 [01:53:22] <mishehu> the issue is that the scripts were written to use the legacy mysql api, not the mysqli api nor the PDO api. I'm migrating them to PDO.
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165 [01:55:36] <humpled> seems to be still in jessie
166 [01:58:44] <mishehu> yeah we are currently using jessie in production. I'm labbing up for a pending update to buster.
167 [01:59:36] <mishehu> if there's no legacy package for php5 around, is the recommendation that I use the build for php5 from jessie and try to build that on buster?
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170 [02:00:36] <OS-57164> /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER OS-57164 purnzsxvcpwj
171 [02:00:48] <annadane> suggest not using that password
172 [02:00:52] <annadane> now that we've all seen it
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176 [02:01:40] <mishehu> I thought everybody used "password" as the password
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179 [02:03:06] <annadane> i know i do
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181 [02:03:59] <Unit193> That's not a password anyway.
182 [02:04:36] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> So, I finally found the insanity that's causing my problem.
183 [02:05:06] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Udisks2 is packaged with /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.UDisks2.policy which contains this little gem: <allow_any>auth_admin</allow_any>
184 [02:05:40] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Why that's not restricted to some say... "allow_group_storage" or something, I have no idea.
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191 [02:08:45] <warsoul> im doing a new installation on a new pc? can i backup all my settings and everthing from my old pc?
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195 [02:10:12] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> warsoul: Yes. Copy over your $HOME to a flash-drive or something.
196 [02:11:33] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> warsoul: I'd recommend only copying the directories under $HOME/.config/ and the $HOME/.$myprogram (where $myprogram is a program you care about) rather than the whole thing, as old incompatible config formats and $HOME/.cache content can break a bunch of things.
197 [02:12:15] <warsoul> that will transfer all my settings in desktop, irc, panels etc.?
198 [02:12:39] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> warsoul: Copying the whole $HOME would. But that may lead to breakage of some things that you'll have to debug on your own after.
199 [02:13:49] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> warsoul: Well, assuming you didn't install servers which look for settings in /etc/*
200 [02:14:05] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> You'd know if you had installed those though.
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210 [02:17:21] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Correcting my prior statement regarding <allow_any>, its value should be "no".
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215 [02:22:15] <FunkyBob> so I've just rebooted, and suddently my microphone doesn't work... which is rather a pain for work
216 [02:22:36] <FunkyBob> has anyone any ideas on how I can chase down what the problem is?
217 [02:24:07] <warsoul> can somebody explain a little more thanks
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223 [02:26:46] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> FunkyBob: Have you checked PulseAudio's current settings?
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225 [02:28:16] <FunkyBob> yes
226 [02:28:52] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> FunkyBob: If you run lsusb, is it there?
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228 [02:30:34] <FunkyBob> the device shows in pa...
229 [02:30:41] <FunkyBob> it just doesn't get any input
230 [02:30:55] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Is it muted or not the current default input sink?
231 [02:31:20] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Alternatively, has the program you're using chosen another isnk.
232 [02:31:22] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> *sink
233 [02:31:28] <FunkyBob> neither are muted, and switching back 'n forth in pavucontrol makes no difference
234 [02:32:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Hm, try running "pulseaudio --kill && pulseaudio" in a terminal. It'll provide output that may indicate errors.
235 [02:32:44] <FunkyBob> k
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237 [02:33:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> You'll have to reopen pavucontrol
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239 [02:34:30] <FunkyBob> E: [pulseaudio] bluez5-util.c: GetManagedObjects() failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
240 [02:34:39] <FunkyBob> that looks bluetooth related, so I'll ignore it
241 [02:35:37] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> That's fair.
242 [02:35:55] <FunkyBob> no other output yet
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248 [02:43:44] <FunkyBob> seems there was a pulseaudio package update a few days ago...
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250 [02:48:33] <ZamenhofGanymede> yes there was adding some support for dolby atmos amoung other things iirc
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255 [02:53:58] <FunkyBob> ok, think I've traced the culprit
256 [02:54:20] * dvs runs away
257 [02:54:25] <annadane> COME BACK HERE
258 [02:54:30] <dvs> doh!
259 [02:54:58] <FunkyBob> seems recently I removed the amd firmware package, as this is an intel box
260 [02:55:21] <dvs> FunkyBob, firmware for what?
261 [02:55:30] <FunkyBob> the firmware, yes
262 [02:55:38] <dvs> Wifi? microcode?
263 [02:55:42] <FunkyBob> and that seems to have knocked out the firmware misc nonfree
264 [02:55:48] <FunkyBob> microcode
265 [02:56:12] <FunkyBob> firmware-amd-graphics:amd64 and amd64-microcode:amd64
266 [02:56:27] <FunkyBob> adding back firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 seems to have fixed my mic [after yet another reboot]
267 [02:56:50] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah. Interesting.
268 [02:57:25] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> So I guess on modern laptops that hardware is tied tightly-enough into the processor to depend on microcode updates.
269 [02:57:26] <FunkyBob> Install: firmware-amd-graphics:amd64 (20190717-2, automatic), amd64-microcode:amd64 (3.20181128.1, automatic), firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 (20190717-2, automatic), firmware-linux:amd64 (20190717-2)
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273 [02:59:10] <FunkyBob> Aurora_iz_kosmos: which might make sense, if this were an amd system...
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276 [03:00:48] <FunkyBob> ISTM whatever the issue was it was in one of the other packages that were dropped when I removed the amd ones
277 [03:01:59] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> It's probably this: firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64
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279 [03:02:18] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> You could test dropping the microcode package while keeping this one.
280 [03:02:48] <FunkyBob> I might try that later, sure... right now, I need to get back to $DAYJOB
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285 [03:06:40] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, of course.
286 [03:07:25] <FunkyBob> many thanks to all for helping out
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299 [03:17:34] <ZamenhofGanymede> r.e pulseaudio replaced-url
300 [03:18:03] <ZamenhofGanymede> so not atmos, my bad
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302 [03:18:55] <FunkyBob> interesting... I think my meddling may have also fixed the "mic via headphone combo jack" too
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320 [03:44:15] <gunchyo> Hi how do I do dist-upgrade without x11-utils installing? this is a headless server
321 [03:44:21] <gunchyo> do I need to ?
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354 [04:24:25] <warsoul> replaced-url
355 [04:24:35] <warsoul> im having this error trying ssh on my vps
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361 [04:30:14] <karlpinc`> warsoul: So what is your question?
362 [04:30:42] <warsoul> i cant connect ssh to my vps
363 [04:30:47] <warsoul> that messages pops out
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365 [04:31:17] <karlpinc`> warsoul: Well, are you worried that the remote end has a new identity?
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368 [04:32:55] <SerajewelKS> i can't find any examples of how to hot-remove virtio storage devices from a qemu-kvm VM using the monitor
369 [04:33:33] <warsoul> no i added a new IP to the vps
370 [04:33:41] <warsoul> i dont know if it was because of that?
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374 [04:34:35] <karlpinc> warsoul: You will get that message if you re-used an old IP that you'd previously used.
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380 [04:36:34] <karlpinc> s/previously used/previously ssh-ed to/
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395 [04:45:30] <warsoul> i have a issue
396 [04:45:41] <warsoul> with any internet browser i use
397 [04:45:53] <warsoul> the colors they dont look good at all
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421 [05:16:11] <skyline> Hello, World!
422 [05:17:26] <dvs> core dump
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426 [05:22:03] <skyline> Anybody know about SNORT? And not the kind with a straw... :)
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433 [05:24:33] <skyline> Hello, World!
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460 [05:44:44] <karlpinc> !anybody
461 [05:44:44] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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463 [05:46:57] <skyline> Hello, World!
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474 [06:04:30] <toruvinn> world is rude, clearly.
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477 [06:17:58] <annadane> for future reference, snort is a package in debian
478 [06:18:07] <annadane> not that that helps people who go "hello? hello?? hello???"
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501 [06:51:12] <bigMouthCommie> just installed deb10. how do i enable autologin, and get the system to automatically conncet to a hidden net? running xfce.
502 [06:54:14] <EoflaOE> bigMouthCommie: About the auto login, which display manager are you running?
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504 [06:56:05] <EoflaOE> You can check by telling me an output of /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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506 [06:57:22] <bigMouthCommie> EoflaOE: lightdm, i assume but... let me grab that output for u
507 [06:57:40] <bigMouthCommie> ya. lightdm
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510 [06:59:25] <EoflaOE> bigMouthCommie: Are there anything related to autologin in the configuration file? sudo nano /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
511 [07:00:28] <bigMouthCommie> EoflaOE: i tried to follow some directions that were on stackexchange, but 1) they didn't work and 2) i couldn't log in to the gui at all. it would take the passwd and kick me out. logged in with tty and undid all my changes.
512 [07:00:57] <bigMouthCommie> EoflaOE: so... yea. i found a bunch of autologin configs in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf but idk which ones to flick
513 [07:03:05] <EoflaOE> bigMouthCommie: Uncomment the autologin-user and autologin-user-timeout parts, and insert your username after the autologin-user part, so it looks like "autologin-user=<username>"
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516 [07:06:07] <bigMouthCommie> done
517 [07:06:15] <bigMouthCommie> gonna reboot. brb....
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523 [07:10:11] <bigMouthCommie> issp
524 [07:10:14] <bigMouthCommie> cool
525 [07:10:15] <bigMouthCommie> lol
526 [07:10:27] <bigMouthCommie> oh. that's another thing but can we get the wifi going first?
527 [07:10:30] <bigMouthCommie> i use a hidden network
528 [07:10:50] <bigMouthCommie> how do i get it to connect on boot? (or on login or w/e makes the most sense)
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536 [07:23:49] <EoflaOE> bigMouthCommie: Have you tried "sudo nmcli device set IFNAME autoconnect yes"? You can check for devices using "sudo nmcli device".
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554 [07:52:28] <bigMouthCommie> EoflaOE: no...
555 [07:52:32] <bigMouthCommie> but i will!
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557 [07:53:48] <bigMouthCommie> ok. i set it BUT i am in the middle of a wesnoth scenario
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631 [09:00:25] <harlan> I upgraded to buster and now the machine likes to suspend/hibernate after several minutes. This is a server box. How do I disable this and leave the box running?
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634 [09:02:06] <k_sze> How do I get a list of my HDDs in a tree (I want to know which HDD is connected to which controller)
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647 [09:09:45] <Tuor> Hi, I'm trying to analyse a very old (lenny) Debian system. This system doesn't have tcpdump installed. I found some services on it, which have to be replaced. I would just like to analyse the network trafic, to know if there is other trafic I would not expect. Is there something like a package archive?
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666 [09:17:41] <nkuttler> !tell Tuor about archive
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668 [09:17:57] <nkuttler> uh, wait..
669 [09:17:59] <nkuttler> !snapshot
670 [09:17:59] <dpkg> replaced-url
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676 [09:22:53] <Tuor> nkuttler: thx!
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853 [10:51:52] <mystic> does anyone use the 'parallel space' android app? i wondered if its secure or not
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859 [10:57:14] <Raven737> Hi, question, I have a small debian system and when i connect it directly to my laptop the NIC blinks and I get a connection but when i then connect it with the same cable to a switch, the NIC led does not blink at all and link states no-carrier
860 [10:57:36] <Raven737> anything i can do by software to get it to work? I tried ifup/ifdown with force etc
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863 [10:58:17] <ratrace> Raven737: tried another cable?
864 [10:58:46] <ratrace> wait... directly, as in no switch in-between? is that a crossover cable?
865 [10:59:16] <fireba11> or at least one of the NICs auto-sensing?
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873 [11:01:23] <jelly> mystic: sounds like a question for #android not #debian ?
874 [11:01:33] <Raven737> ratrace: yes, did not working. I now plugged in another switch and it works... i guess switch but the wired thing is that the same switch port works for another system
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876 [11:01:50] <vlt> Raven737: NIC to NIC working but not NIC to switch also to me sounds like a crossover cable used without auto-sensing.
877 [11:01:53] <Raven737> jelly: it\s a debian linux system, not android
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879 [11:02:04] <vlt> Raven737: The second switch then propably did.
880 [11:02:28] <vlt> Raven737: We'd have to ask mystic.
881 [11:02:30] <Raven737> vlt: ok yea i guess i try to find a crossover cable ... long time since I had one i think ..
882 [11:02:43] <ratrace> no, you don't need it
883 [11:03:03] <vlt> Raven737: I'd think you actually have one right there.
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885 [11:03:24] <jelly> Raven737: that was for a different user, not you. There are sometimes parallel conversations taking place at the same time
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889 [11:06:43] <mystic> ask me what
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892 [11:07:06] <mystic> yea its an android app.. couldnt find an android room at first.. but they havent answered me anyway lol
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904 [11:13:04] <BCMM> mystic: also, "is it secure" is barely a meaningful question
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906 [11:13:29] <BCMM> work out what specific bad thing you want to use it to prevent, and then ask about that
907 [11:13:57] <BCMM> or what specific bad thing you are worried it might cause, if that's what you meant
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913 [11:20:49] <mystic> I mean, if i send messages via that service would they still be encrypted, or the app might compromse them
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915 [11:22:15] <mystic> i want to keep my business contacts seprate from personal. that app allows mutliple accounts of facebook messenger for example on one device. but its useless if the data is compromised by the app. i dont know
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921 [11:25:57] <mystic> hello helloshitty
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946 [11:46:00] <Abdullah> ,polybar
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949 [11:47:04] <annadane> you're looking for ,v
950 [11:47:08] <annadane> but no, polybar isn't in debian
951 [11:47:10] <annadane> ,v polybar
952 [11:47:12] <judd> No package named 'polybar' was found in amd64.
953 [11:47:28] <Abdullah> annadane: yeah its in testing. I think
954 [11:48:15] <annadane> no it isn't
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956 [11:48:29] <Abdullah> then I have to compile it :)
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958 [11:48:37] <annadane> yep.
959 [11:48:40] <Abdullah> or maybe package it too for debian
960 [11:48:53] <annadane> not sure why no one bothered to package it yet, i think it relies on a ton of dependencies
961 [11:48:59] <annadane> it's fairly popular, odd it isn't in debian
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963 [11:49:34] <Abdullah> The only reason for not packaging it for me is that, it wasn't working good with my dwm. so I stopped using it.
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967 [11:50:22] <Abdullah> python-xcbgen libxcb-icccm4-dev libxcb1-dev xcb-proto libxcb-image0-dev libxcb-randr0-dev libalsaplayer-dev wireless-tools libcurlpp-dev libcairo2-dev libjsoncpp-dev libxcb-util0-dev libxcb-xkb-dev libxcb-ewmh-dev cmake are the dependencies
968 [11:50:54] <annadane> that... doesn't sound bad, i guess
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1003 [12:19:42] <StyXman> I have 3 computers, all of them have 1Gibs eth ports, one of them two of those. That machine has both in a bridge and is working as a switch. I have two Cat5e cables connecting NB <-> SW <-> NB, but all links go only to 100Mibs. If I try to force 1000Mibs, I get no communication. Is tehre anything else i could try except other cables? I also tried NB <-> NB with both cables and nothing, still 100Mibs. this also means that autoneg is working in all
1004 [12:19:42] <StyXman> cases
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1007 [12:20:31] <StyXman> I force 1000Mibs with sudo ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off on all eths and restarting networking
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1015 [12:23:58] <StyXman> speed 1000*
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1043 [12:49:11] <pigeon123> I want to go straight into X. So I thought of startx in /etc/rc.local "Only console users are allowed to run the X server" Will rc.local be on a console or not? Consider I have xdm although I don't want it
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1046 [12:49:28] <Habbie> pigeon123, pick the *dm you want; systemctl enable it; reboot
1047 [12:49:40] <pigeon123> Habbie: I've tried them all.
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1051 [12:52:10] <StyXman> pigeon123: it's running as root without a tty, so no, no console then
1052 [12:52:14] <StyXman> (I think)
1053 [12:52:29] <StyXman> pigeon123: tried them all and what happened?
1054 [12:52:31] <pigeon123> I will have to disable security then.
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1057 [12:53:03] <StyXman> pigeon123: I don't think it's security related
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1102 [13:32:44] <duude__> o/ lal
1103 [13:32:45] <duude__> all*
1104 [13:33:05] <duude__> Right now I'm an Ubuntu user and I'm deciding to which distro to move. I'm choosing between Fedora/Debian. What are some pros of Debian over Fedora?
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1106 [13:34:14] <StyXman> mora pkgs in the distro
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1109 [13:36:20] <duude__> StyXman I was told that Fedora is more bleeding edge than Debian and that Debian sometimes doesn't "update" their packages for a few months
1110 [13:36:25] <duude__> Is this true
1111 [13:37:25] <e> bleeding-edge-ness is not a goal for debian; stability is
1112 [13:38:23] <duude__> e, does this really matter for a regular user though?
1113 [13:38:32] <duude__> I don't plan running a server on my distro
1114 [13:38:45] <e> it's up to you
1115 [13:38:46] <duude__> So I'm ok with occasional issues
1116 [13:38:56] <duude__> Idk not still sure haha
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1118 [13:39:27] <nvz> dpkg, why debian
1119 [13:39:27] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
1120 [13:39:42] <nvz> dpkg, social contract
1121 [13:39:42] <dpkg> The Debian Social Contract is the document that defines Debian's purpose, see replaced-url
1122 [13:40:10] <duude__> I see.
1123 [13:40:15] <duude__> Does fedora care about freedom?
1124 [13:40:26] <duude__> actually I'll just google that
1125 [13:40:28] <duude__> sorry for asking you guys
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1127 [13:42:04] <StyXman> duude__: I ride debian sid and it's a god balance between 'stable' (works) and new
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1129 [13:42:38] <StyXman> I don't know about specific pkgs and versions, but sid/unstable is good enough for me
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1133 [13:43:05] <StyXman> and if you're a dev of those new languages that like to handle the deps themselves, then it's not an issue for you anyways
1134 [13:43:17] <jelly> duude__: few years, more than few months
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1136 [13:44:33] <duude__> jelly yeah that's a big issue, however I just found out aboud debian sid
1137 [13:44:42] <duude__> It looks really nice, I think I could totally use it
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1141 [13:45:22] <nvz> debian testing/unstable is not just some newer branch, its for testing not meant for regular use.
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1143 [13:45:26] <ayekat> duude__: it's just how stable releases work - look e.g. at (also rpm-based) centos
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1146 [13:46:18] <duude__> nvz, well is there anything between debian stable and unstable?
1147 [13:46:26] <duude__> Like, updates every 1-2 months
1148 [13:46:30] <duude__> So that you're not so far behind
1149 [13:46:47] <ayekat> there is testing, but that's (almost) rolling release
1150 [13:46:54] <duude__> I can accept some instability. I just checked Debian sid and it's updated every few hours? That's too much
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1152 [13:47:23] <ayekat> there is no "updates every 1-2 months" in debian - there is a release every 2 years, and the rest is kind of a pipeline that leads to the next release
1153 [13:47:24] <duude__> ayekat yeah I'd love to skip rolling
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1155 [13:47:37] <duude__> That sucks
1156 [13:47:55] <duude__> So with Debian it's either 100% stability or 0%
1157 [13:48:04] <duude__> At least when it comes to desktop environment
1158 [13:48:04] <ayekat> again, that's just how releases work - and different distros have different release cycles
1159 [13:48:25] <ayekat> with fedora and ubuntu, you get a release every 6 months, centos OTOH is... a couple of years?
1160 [13:48:28] * ayekat checks
1161 [13:48:33] <Habbie> yes
1162 [13:48:47] <Habbie> 2010, 2014, 2019
1163 [13:49:30] <duude__> ayekat, yeah that's what I like about Ubuntu LTS at the moment
1164 [13:49:37] <duude__> It's stable and sometimes updated
1165 [13:49:40] <duude__> And not rolling
1166 [13:49:42] <ayekat> duude__: the ubuntu LTS releases are every 2 years as well, though
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1169 [13:49:57] <duude__> Indeed, but they get major updates every 6 months
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1171 [13:50:10] <ayekat> duude__: nope, those are simply the non-LTS releases
1172 [13:50:10] <duude__> 18.04, -||-.01, .02 etc
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1174 [13:50:21] <ayekat> ah those
1175 [13:50:25] <duude__> Yeah those
1176 [13:50:28] <duude__> Like Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS :P
1177 [13:50:29] <ayekat> but debian gets 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 :-P
1178 [13:50:34] <duude__> Oh it does?
1179 [13:50:35] <duude__> awesome
1180 [13:50:36] <nvz> duude__: debian stable updates plenty often.. if you have a specific need for something specific, you install it
1181 [13:50:37] <ayekat> duude__: those are bugfix releases
1182 [13:50:37] <ratrace> duude__: Ubuntu LTS is updated more or less at the same pace as debian. Debian has point releases which bring updates similar to ubuntu SRU
1183 [13:50:49] <duude__> I thought debian had to bugfix releases
1184 [13:50:54] <ayekat> duude__: you don't get the shiny new features that you'd get in a regular release
1185 [13:50:56] <duude__> that it was literally every 2 years haha
1186 [13:51:02] <ratrace> Ubuntu non-LTS is not recommended in production, it's testing and as stable as Debian Testing
1187 [13:51:20] <duude__> Alright Debian stable it is then :D
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1189 [13:51:31] <nvz> duude__: debian releases normal updates regularly when they are fixed
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1191 [13:52:04] <nvz> there is no time cycle in debian, everything from updates to stable releases are made when its ready
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1193 [13:52:41] <duude__> nvz: I see :) alright you convinced me!
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1195 [13:53:22] <duude__> I'll only miss ppas, but hopefully that's easy to overcome with proper debs
1196 [13:53:25] <nvz> only real time frame is the I believe its 5 days now something has to pass muster in sid before migrating out
1197 [13:54:07] <duude__> I see
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1199 [13:54:24] <duude__> Sorry for asking, I'm just a bit scared of one thing
1200 [13:54:30] <duude__> I'm so used to using and working with PPA's
1201 [13:54:39] <duude__> How is it done in Debian? With deb only?
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1203 [13:54:51] <whislock> duude__: In terms of quality, you won't miss PPAs once you get used to not using them.
1204 [13:55:08] <nvz> duude__: ppa are a damn nightmare
1205 [13:55:44] <nvz> duude__: we have backports.org is the closest we come to a PPA
1206 [13:55:46] <duude__> whislock, nvz: I see. Why is that? How do you guys get your packages?
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1209 [13:56:09] <nvz> duude__: look at the code that implements it.. its a self-explanitory mess
1210 [13:56:16] <ayekat> duude__: it helps to get into the habit of "if it's not in the repos, I probably don't want to run it" :-)
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1212 [13:56:19] <whislock> duude__: You have to trust the PPA publisher to test their packages. Good luck.
1213 [13:56:21] <duude__> O, will do that right now
1214 [13:56:31] <duude__> whislock yeah that I don't like about PPAs
1215 [13:56:45] <duude__> you can easily get a virus if the dev decides to be evil for some reason
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1218 [13:57:00] <whislock> I run Debian on systems whose stability I care about. PPAs are, in general, anathema to that concept.
1219 [13:57:03] <duude__> nvz: yup they're completely private
1220 [13:57:06] <duude__> it's a risk
1221 [13:57:06] <ayekat> also, don't assume malice where incompetence is a sufficient explanation
1222 [13:57:11] <ratrace> technically, you can get a "virus" even if a debian maintaine decides to be evil for some reason
1223 [13:57:19] <duude__> I see
1224 [13:57:26] <duude__> sorry for asking such stupid questions
1225 [13:57:29] <duude__> I'm new to this
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1227 [13:58:02] <whislock> AFAIK, nothing stops a PPA publisher from publishing a package that would override some core package.
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1229 [13:58:28] <whislock> "here, have this shiny new libc!" Aaaaaand it's over.
1230 [13:59:13] <ratrace> ubuntu is moving away from PPAs. Snaps are supposedly long-term replacement for PPAs
1231 [13:59:20] <ratrace> (and a number of regularly packaged apps too)
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1233 [13:59:29] <whislock> There's also Ubuntu's bizarre habit of forcing half-baked new stuff into LTS releases. netplan is an example.
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1236 [14:01:28] <duude__> alright alright you convinced me :P
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1248 [14:07:00] <duude__> Which desktop environment do you use?
1249 [14:07:05] <duude__> Kde or gnome or something else
1250 [14:07:08] <duude__> or none
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1252 [14:07:19] * diogenes_ uses XFCE
1253 [14:07:32] <ayekat> but if you are concerned about being up to date in terms of features, debian stable might not be the most satisfying choice, though
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1256 [14:08:04] <duude__> ayekat well I was told it's the same as ubuntu LTS
1257 [14:08:08] <diogenes_> you can always use snaps for more up-to-date software, or appimages or whatever.
1258 [14:08:08] <duude__> and i'm happy with it so far
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1260 [14:08:21] <duude__> ayekat do you use xfce too?
1261 [14:08:30] <ayekat> duude__: ah well, in that case you'll be happy enough ^^
1262 [14:08:32] <ayekat> duude__: no
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1267 [14:09:41] <duude__> ayekat what do you use then :P
1268 [14:10:25] <ayekat> replaced-url
1269 [14:10:36] <ayekat> duude__: but I would not recommend it to anyone yet
1270 [14:10:59] <duude__> seems like no one uses gnome here
1271 [14:11:05] <duude__> i wanted to use it
1272 [14:11:13] <eemilian> i use awesomewm
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1274 [14:11:33] <ayekat> duude__: gnome is the default selection when installing a DE in the installer - there is fair chance some in here are using it
1275 [14:11:34] <eemilian> previously used ion3/notion and before that kde
1276 [14:11:43] <StyXman> nvz: it is not meant for regular use, but it can be use regularly :)
1277 [14:12:12] <duude__> it'll try out xfce
1278 [14:12:14] <duude__> it seems nice enough
1279 [14:12:18] <StyXman> my personal suggestion is to install apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs and read them carefully on every update
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1281 [14:14:21] <StyXman> just debian stable updates are security/bugs fixes that you anyways get by updatting it regularly
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1283 [14:16:40] <StyXman> snaps can be another nightmare, i tried to install nextcloud that way and it came with pg and apache
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1285 [14:17:26] <StyXman> duude__: then use gnome
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1288 [14:18:50] <majestic1> I am running a C program, each time I do "ps aux | grep progname" I get a different PID
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1290 [14:18:53] <majestic1> "majestic 15999 0.0 0.0 11844 888 pts/9 S+ 14:18 0:00 grep --color=auto mish
1291 [14:18:59] <majestic1> whats up with that?
1292 [14:19:06] <majestic1> How do I terminate that process
1293 [14:19:07] <Habbie> majestic1, that's the PID of your grep
1294 [14:19:15] <Habbie> majestic1, it will have terminated by the time you get your prompt back, every time
1295 [14:19:28] <majestic1> It does not terminate when I close my program
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1297 [14:19:44] <StyXman> majestic1: use pgrep
1298 [14:19:55] <Habbie> majestic1, every time you type 'ps ... | grep ...' you start a new ps and a new grep; it is -that grep- that you are seeing
1299 [14:20:02] <Habbie> majestic1, you are, apparently, not seeing the program you care about in that output
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1301 [14:20:36] <Mdlpe> hi, yesterday my debian freeze while I'm surfing on the net. Today, I have no more icon, right click on the mouse, screen background on my Xfce desktop. An idea ?
1302 [14:20:47] <majestic1> Where do I find the real PID of my program, I print the PID of my program upon execution so I now the real PID
1303 [14:20:52] <majestic1> but I cannot find it in example "top" etc
1304 [14:21:03] <majestic1> know*
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1306 [14:21:28] <ratrace> majestic1: does your program remain running when you run top?
1307 [14:21:33] <StyXman> majestic1: use pgrep
1308 [14:21:35] <ratrace> something tells me it outputs PID and exits
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1310 [14:21:57] <StyXman> Mdlpe: did you rm -rf anything lately?
1311 [14:22:29] <Mdlpe> StyXman: rm -rf ?
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1315 [14:24:09] <ayekat> +1 for "use pgrep" - and maybe that program execs another program, so it's no longer visible under its original name
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1318 [14:24:46] <ayekat> ... or it's simply not running ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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1331 [14:30:27] <majestic1> StyXman: ratrace: So I use "pgrep myprog" and get the correct PID. Then I close my program and dont get any output from pgrep, but that "grep --color=auto mish" process is still running it seems like, or what exactly is that?
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1333 [14:31:02] <majestic1> I dont want any process from my program to be running when I have closed it
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1342 [14:34:13] <ratrace> majestic1: you sure it's not running in another terminal or something? maybe it's orphaned when you force-killed its parents. you can always kill it by PID
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1349 [14:37:58] <majestic1> ratrace: Maybe I try to restart my computer and see what happens after another launch
1350 [14:38:01] <majestic1> brb
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1359 [14:41:13] <lowin> I installed latest kernel image from buster-backports but unfortunately it isn't configured with CONFIG_CRYPTO_ADIANTUM :(
1360 [14:41:32] <lowin> Any other way to get it besides compiling a full custom kernel?
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1362 [14:43:07] <lowin> ubuntu's kernel image comes with adiantum module. Is there a way to add ubuntu's repository and install linux-image-amd64 without all hell breaking loose?
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1366 [14:46:46] <ratrace> lowin: which kernel version are you trying?
1367 [14:47:16] <lowin> ratrace, 5.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
1368 [14:47:40] <dka> Is there a free and open source google drive client for linux debian ?
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1370 [14:48:13] <jelly> dka: that works reliably? If you find one let me know.
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1372 [14:49:24] <dka> jelly, I've seen paid option but I am afraid they won't work forever
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1379 [14:51:02] <ratrace> lowin: I guess there isn't then. weird, tho, Adiantum should've been upstreamed by now in 5.2
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1383 [14:51:58] <jelly> dka: welcome to the wonderful world of cloud-based services
1384 [14:51:58] <lowin> ratrace, yeah I didn't expect it not being supported. anyway, is there a work around?
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1387 [14:52:36] <lowin> Installing ubuntu's kernel should work but how do I add the repository without it conflicting with other debian packages?
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1389 [14:52:38] <dka> that help jelly
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1392 [14:53:21] <lowin> basically, a "don't use this repository for anything except x, y, z packages" option
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1394 [14:53:44] <ratrace> lowin: yeah no, don't do that. ubuntu kernel requires some userland support too
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1399 [14:54:54] <lowin> ratrace, so my options are rolling my own kernel or getting debian's kernel source to compile the module in. but I have to remember to recompile it every kernel update otherwise my system will fail to boot which is a pain in the ass
1400 [14:55:11] <ratrace> lowin: your best bet is figuring out how Ubuntu got it (is it a SAUCE patch or simple flip of a CONFIG switch) and then replicate that with debian kernel src
1401 [14:55:26] <ratrace> lowin: well, that PITA is the price for the shiny new shi... feature.
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1403 [14:55:37] <lowin> I'm pretty sure it's a simple config switch
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1407 [14:57:28] <lowin> perhaps I should open an issue about this
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1411 [15:00:03] <ratrace> lowin: btw, you intend to just play around with adiantium, or use it in some kind of security role?
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1414 [15:00:55] <lowin> I want to switch away from aes because my cpu doesn't have aes-ni and adiantum would be a big performance boost
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1417 [15:02:08] <Mdlpe> hi, my usr xfce desktop have trouble. No more icons, no more right click on the mouse etc. Other user is fine
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1428 [15:05:54] <dka> On Linux (debian) how can I get the human readable size of the current folder and all subdirectories and files ?
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1433 [15:08:58] <jelly> dka: du -h, add -s if you like
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1435 [15:09:43] <dka> no need to add dot ?
1436 [15:09:51] <jelly> !tias
1437 [15:09:52] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
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1439 [15:10:15] <dka> no need
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1450 [15:15:00] <nvz> ,i ncdu
1451 [15:15:01] <judd> Package ncdu (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: ncurses disk usage viewer. Version: 1.13-1+b1; Size: 42.7k; Installed: 96k; Homepage: replaced-url
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1473 [15:33:33] <woshty> Does vim in buster default to mouse visual whatever on? How to switch that off?
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1481 [15:36:00] <woshty> :set mouse-=a
1482 [15:36:47] <humpled> yay ncdu
1483 [15:39:18] <woshty> Why does setting that in /etc/vim/vimrc.local not work?
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1498 [15:46:02] <woshty> Is anyone else using vim on a new buster setup?
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1501 [15:48:53] <nkuttler> no, everybody uses emacs
1502 [15:50:12] <woshty> At least the person setting up the vim default config did ..
1503 [15:50:19] <EdePopede> because of C-x M-c M-butterfly
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1506 [15:51:23] <nkuttler> nah, they used ed
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1508 [15:51:45] <jelly> ED IS THE STANDARD EDITOR
1509 [15:52:25] <Haohmaru> i use "pico"
1510 [15:52:45] <EdePopede> iirc one of the first things i always do with vim is to :set mouse=a
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1522 [16:01:49] <ratrace> woshty: yes. vim ftw, and don't listen to these heretics.
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1524 [16:05:52] <remline> "For most purposes, however, [Ed] is superseded by full-screen editors such as GNU Emacs or GNU Moe."
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1528 [16:08:52] <humpled> top result for "mouse-=a" is SO...
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1535 [16:11:23] <humbot> replaced-url
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1538 [16:13:14] <netcrash> Hello, is there a way to make the ethernet use more cpus then just one?
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1540 [16:13:50] <whislock> netcrash: What is your actual root issue?
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1542 [16:14:54] <netcrash> having the network using 200 Mbps and the cpu at 100% of it's use on one core, I have 3 more, can I use them?
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1547 [16:16:12] <whislock> Your NIC doesn't consume CPU time on its own. Whatever program is generating the traffic is. Whether or not it can use more than one core is dependent on how that program was written.
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1553 [16:17:21] <netcrash> whislock: the app is chrome and is on another computer , this is a pc router
1554 [16:17:40] <whislock> Okay. What process is consuming CPU resources?
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1603 [16:48:00] <hohlraum> Is there a way to enable vnc/rdp for a debian buster live cd install? Not convenient to access mouse/keyboard/monitor on my server for extended periods of time. Was just curious. Can't seem to find anything in the docs.
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1609 [16:50:15] <karlpinc> hohlraum: You can install packages using debian live.
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1614 [16:51:29] <karlpinc> hohlraum: Whether or not whatever you do persists across reboots is another matter. You can set things up with USB sticks so that your changes are saved. I don't know how that would work with a CD. You might have to use the tools to make your own live cd with your own packages/configs/etc.
1615 [16:52:16] <DodgeThis> has anyone managed to install opensupports on debian buster?
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1618 [16:52:52] <Habbie> DodgeThis, best to just ask your actual question; also, that looks like something that is not shipped by Debian so help for your question might be limited in here
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1630 [17:00:42] <duude__> Any of you guys using Debian stable as desktop atm?
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1637 [17:02:48] <becks`> hi, this is how a free -h looks on a server; would you say it is normal that it is using 3.6G of swap? replaced-url
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1643 [17:03:43] <EdePopede> becks`: looking at the RAM i'd say, yes.
1644 [17:04:24] <jhutchins_wk1> becks`: Yeah, programs file unused pages in swap. It's there, might as well use it.
1645 [17:04:43] <becks`> I just wonder why he's swapping that much when :-/ so I don't have to add more ram to it?
1646 [17:04:56] <jhutchins_wk1> becks`: If you see the swap value changing frequently (like in top) then you're actually swapping and should look into why.
1647 [17:05:06] <becks`> okay, thanks!
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1649 [17:05:40] <jhutchins_wk1> becks`: Occasional swapping is fine on a PC, on a web server it's terrible.
1650 [17:05:56] <karlpinc> becks`: "vmstat" is good for telling if there's swapping going on.
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1652 [17:07:24] <becks`> thanks, I let it run for 20s and si and so remained zero :)
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1667 [17:18:16] <netcrash> whislock: kernel
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1698 [17:31:14] <nvz> I got an old HP Pavilion dv9410us here with GeForce Go 6150 (10de:0244) and it starts the lightdm fine using noveau on buster, but the screen is all wrung out looking like diagonal lines. It looks normal for a brief second when switching VT to tty1, I'm thinking maybe there is a tweak of some kind that can fix the display issue
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1702 [17:31:33] <nvz> its too old to be supported by nvidia in buster, cause it would need 304 which was only up to stretch
1703 [17:32:15] <nvz> there are no errors in the xlog and I dont know offhand which driver option may be causing this
1704 [17:32:57] <diogenes_> nvz, /j #nouveau
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1706 [17:35:30] <nvz> diogenes_: I wasn't aware of that channel, I asked in there about it
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1708 [17:35:56] <nvz> most I can think of is gen a config an start messin with crap at random :P
1709 [17:36:04] <diogenes_> ik, i'm there all the time.
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1711 [17:37:11] <diogenes_> those folks helped me with my nouveau issues too.
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1713 [17:37:40] <nvz> this is the first nvidia I came across in AGES
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1716 [17:38:11] <nvz> my cousin dropped off three rougly 15yr old laptops yest.. the one I got all setup, this one is all good to go except the display issue
1717 [17:38:43] <nvz> well and I was gonna fool with the mm remote afer
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1719 [17:39:00] <nvz> I never used an IR remote before but this machine has one.. so I was gonna see what I could do with it
1720 [17:39:34] <nvz> I know linux in general has IR support but I've never used a remote in all my years on Debian
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1724 [17:42:06] * nvz shrugs
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1728 [17:42:28] <nvz> no answer yet in nouveau, and nothing on the wiki.. I'm generating a config and messin with crap at random :P
1729 [17:43:21] <nvz> the other odd bit is, when it had booted, the speakers popped too.. and when I just now stopped lightdm they popped again
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1731 [17:43:42] <diogenes_> nvz, meanwhile try something like this: replaced-url
1732 [17:43:45] <diogenes_> but
1733 [17:43:47] <minall> Hello Debian!
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1735 [17:44:02] <minall> What is the difference between apt and apt-get?
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1737 [17:44:05] <diogenes_> nvz, run: man nouveau and change the Option "AccelMethod" "exa" to something else.
1738 [17:44:06] <minall> Which one is better for using?
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1740 [17:44:16] <Habbie> minall, apt is less typing and generally looks a bit better
1741 [17:44:21] <Habbie> minall, i tend to use apt
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1743 [17:44:42] <minall> Yes, me too, but since some tutorials in internet of installing some things they use 'apt-get'
1744 [17:44:46] <Habbie> well
1745 [17:44:51] <Habbie> apt is quite new
1746 [17:44:57] <Habbie> in most of those cases, you can replace apt-get with apt
1747 [17:44:59] <Habbie> or, just do what they say
1748 [17:45:17] <Habbie> also, in general be careful with tutorials - copying things without knowing what they do is a great way to hose a system
1749 [17:45:18] <minall> Yes, but they are quite similar, so i don't know their differences
1750 [17:45:35] <minall> Since apt install is the same as apt-get install
1751 [17:45:43] <minall> Yes, totally,
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1753 [17:45:48] <diogenes_> minall, apt will show you a nice animation when installing a package :)
1754 [17:45:50] <minall> Thank you for the advise
1755 [17:45:53] <minall> Lol
1756 [17:45:54] <diogenes_> apt-get has more options.
1757 [17:45:56] <minall> And apt-get?
1758 [17:46:11] <diogenes_> more options like apt-get download package without installing it.
1759 [17:46:21] <minall> Like what options? (I though apt-get was newer, since it has the '-get' extra),
1760 [17:46:23] <minall> Mh...
1761 [17:46:25] <minall> I see
1762 [17:46:36] <minall> Just for installing packages I tend to use apt
1763 [17:46:45] <minall> Is even shorter than writing apt-get
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1767 [17:48:30] <ayekat> minall: apt-get is meant to provide a stable interface (i.e. command options, default behaviour, etc.), whereas apt doesn't give you that guarantee, but instead is meant for direct/interactive use
1768 [17:48:50] <minall> Mhh..
1769 [17:49:00] <minall> So it is to everyone to use that we like?
1770 [17:49:02] <ayekat> so if you write a script, you want to use apt-get
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1773 [17:49:21] <ayekat> whereas if you're typing it out on the command line, you can really choose (but apt is probably a bit nicer)
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1775 [17:50:11] <ayekat> *apt-get/apt-cache, actually
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1778 [17:52:21] <minall> Yep
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1780 [17:52:41] <minall> Welp, so it's opinion based
1781 [17:53:35] <nvz> hmm, well turning of pageflip is what fixed it :P
1782 [17:54:07] <nvz> gonna have to look more into that pageflip.. cause it messes up my 10 years newer Intel graphics too :P
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1784 [17:54:51] <nvz> but on mine it just spews errors to the log every 2 seconds with modesetting, on this old nvidia machine I get no errrors from nouveau just messes up the display output
1785 [17:54:51] <minall> Is there any reason why gnome seems slower than plasma?
1786 [17:55:18] <nvz> it uses more resources
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1788 [17:55:34] <nvz> you can prob turn off compositing and improve it
1789 [17:55:46] <nvz> I also think it defaults to wayland where I dont think kde does
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1792 [17:56:22] <minall> Yes, but wayland seems to be stable, since Debian uses it now by default, So I'm good with it
1793 [17:56:29] <minall> Does gnome uses compositing?
1794 [17:56:49] <minall> Well, in wayland is different right?, like I can't put my terminal transparent right?
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1796 [17:57:16] <minall> I though plasma and Gnome were like 'almost' the same on resources, plasma is heavy too
1797 [17:57:24] <minall> Just that the animations seem faster
1798 [17:57:42] <nvz> yes I believe gnome composits by default.. which is fairly obvious seeing how their menu works
1799 [17:57:54] <nvz> !de usage
1800 [17:57:54] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see replaced-url
1801 [17:58:04] <nvz> I have updated stats on that link for 10.1
1802 [17:58:29] <minall> Oh, it is obvious lol
1803 [17:58:48] <minall> !de usage: event not found
1804 [17:59:03] <minall> Thanks for that dpkg, I'll check it
1805 [17:59:08] <nvz> @.@
1806 [17:59:24] <minall> Can't I put my terminal transparent?, I don't see the option
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1808 [17:59:32] <nvz> dpkg is a bot, and I triggered it to say something that I previously programmed it to say
1809 [17:59:32] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, nvz
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1812 [18:00:26] <minall> Oh, didn't knew it was a bot
1813 [18:00:31] * minall is scared of bots now
1814 [18:00:40] <nvz> dpkg, what is a person?
1815 [18:00:40] <dpkg> well, person is like a bot, but squishier
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1820 [18:01:48] <minall> It seems that plasma is lighter, but not that much, Gnome animations should be more fluent
1821 [18:01:55] <minall> lol
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1823 [18:02:03] <minall> dpkg, are you a human?
1824 [18:02:04] <dpkg> minall: no idea
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1827 [18:02:41] <minall> dpkg, Do you have skin?
1828 [18:02:42] * dpkg does you have skin
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1830 [18:03:33] <jelly> dpkg: what are you
1831 [18:03:33] <dpkg> I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>.
1832 [18:03:45] <minall> lol
1833 [18:04:09] <minall> dpkg, Your skin is yours or is from another human?, was it grown by you?
1834 [18:04:10] <dpkg> okay, minall
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1836 [18:05:21] <jelly> minall: you can chat with dpkg in private, /msg dpkg stuff
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1838 [18:06:13] <minall> lol, I was just messing, I won't keep it, sorry
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1840 [18:06:49] <minall> How is the developing of debian 11?, any information about it?, and how can I help in the development of debian?
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1842 [18:07:29] <jelly> most if not all effects in plasma can be disabled
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1858 [18:13:03] <diogenes_> nvz, you've got some output in nouveau.
1859 [18:13:13] <nvz> is there anything useful in debian for an IR remote?
1860 [18:13:28] <nvz> diogenes_: I fixed it already
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1862 [18:13:39] <diogenes_> nvz, how you fixed it?
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1864 [18:14:01] <nvz> diogenes_: generated a config, turned options off one by one until it worked :P
1865 [18:14:10] <nvz> diogenes_: it was pageflip that fixed it
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1869 [18:15:41] <diogenes_> nice
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1877 [18:19:32] <nvz> dpkg, forget your skin
1878 [18:19:33] <dpkg> i forgot your skin, nvz
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1899 [18:32:15] <netcrash> replaced-url
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1940 [18:50:59] <choice> When a service fails to start, where can I get info on why?
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1945 [18:53:27] <Habbie> choice, systemctl status, journalctl
1946 [18:54:28] <choice> Don't have any of those.
1947 [18:54:38] <choice> Running Debian 10 in a Docker container.
1948 [18:56:13] <Habbie> not having any of those might be the reason then
1949 [18:56:16] <Habbie> how are you starting the service?
1950 [18:56:45] <choice> "service mysql start"
1951 [18:57:09] <choice> After I now "chmod -R 777 mysql" the mysql data dir, it works.
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1954 [18:57:39] <ratrace> sounds like docker issue
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1956 [18:57:49] <choice> I dunno :)
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1959 [18:58:22] <ratrace> it's docker issue, as that's not debian there, that's canibalied something that resembles debian
1960 [18:58:28] <ratrace> *canibalized
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1962 [18:58:39] <ratrace> so, ask docker folks
1963 [18:58:44] <Habbie> choice, 'service .. start' is not expected to work in Docker; that it sometimes does is a gift
1964 [18:58:53] <Habbie> choice, i indeed recommend #docker for further help
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1966 [18:59:05] <choice> Habbie: Funky
1967 [18:59:22] <Habbie> if you want a 'container' in which such things work, systemd-nspawn/machinectl is nice
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1971 [18:59:47] <ratrace> is it mysql that's not shipped by Debian?
1972 [19:00:08] <ratrace> modified/patched/some other version?
1973 [19:00:11] <jelly> choice: aren't docker containers supposed to run a single service each?
1974 [19:00:21] <Habbie> jelly, they are
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1976 [19:00:27] <ratrace> they are, but people often abuse them as "lite" VMs
1977 [19:00:34] <choice> jelly: That is a type of setup many devops like. I am not one of them.
1978 [19:00:37] <ayekat> choice: there must be an init system/daemon manager running inside the container for launching daemons/services - you can't just do the ol' `docker run -it somesillycommand`
1979 [19:00:40] <ratrace> literally ssh-ing into them and treating them like VMs
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1981 [19:00:52] <ratrace> choice: that's dumb and those "devops" should be fired
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1984 [19:01:12] <jelly> choice: I don't mean as a matter of liking, but "docker is tool made for that"
1985 [19:01:15] <choice> Well, it seemed to have been a permission issue.
1986 [19:01:20] <choice> After I now "chmod -R 777 mysql" the mysql data dir, it works.
1987 [19:01:20] <Habbie> choice, if you don't like the 'one service per container' model, then docker is not the right tool
1988 [19:01:36] <ratrace> chmodding 777 is never the answer
1989 [19:01:41] <choice> Habbie: Well, that's just like ... your opinion man.
1990 [19:01:42] <Habbie> that too :)
1991 [19:01:47] <Habbie> choice, ok, good luck!
1992 [19:01:51] <jelly> and there is no /sbin/init as a service/process manager inside a container
1993 [19:02:13] <ayekat> meh, do you expect docker users to care about proper system integration? :-P
1994 [19:02:26] <ayekat> chmod 777 ALL the things! \o,
1995 [19:02:33] <jelly> there are other container solutions that are more palatable to running VPS with whole OS inside
1996 [19:02:46] <ratrace> LXD ferinstance
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1998 [19:03:18] <jelly> it's like running permanent resources inside k8s
1999 [19:03:31] <ratrace> jelly: language!
2000 [19:03:58] <ratrace> k8s is a dirty word. this is a family friendly channel.
2001 [19:04:00] <jelly> ?
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2003 [19:04:24] <Habbie> jelly, a terrible attempt at humour
2004 [19:04:46] <jelly> I didn't say openshift.
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2006 [19:05:12] <Habbie> oh no
2007 [19:05:14] <ratrace> Habbie: not as terribad as kubernetes itself :)
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2010 [19:06:12] * jelly likes to use the most appropriate tools for a job
2011 [19:08:49] <jhutchins_wk> How can I grep for a literal [?
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2013 [19:09:36] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: escape it? \[
2014 [19:10:18] <jhutchins_wk> Nope. Nor quotes.
2015 [19:10:33] <ratrace> WorksForMe(tm)
2016 [19:10:42] <ratrace> grep "\["
2017 [19:11:01] <jhutchins_wk> Hm.Ah, both.
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2024 [19:14:55] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: also, grep -F
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2038 [19:22:45] <minall> What package do I need to install to use 'lollypop' music player?
2039 [19:22:57] <minall> There's no package for it I see..
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2045 [19:28:55] <jmcnaught> minall: it's not packaged for Debian. There's a flatpak for it.
2046 [19:29:08] <OerHeks> apt install flatpak # and some more lines replaced-url
2047 [19:29:13] <OerHeks> jmcnaught, +1
2048 [19:29:13] <minall> Oh, why is there no package?
2049 [19:29:29] <minall> Welp, thank you guys, I'll check the link
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2052 [19:30:50] <OerHeks> or build it yourself ? replaced-url
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2056 [19:32:44] <Habbie> ,v lollypop
2057 [19:32:45] <judd> Package: lollypop on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.1.4.16-2; sid: 1.1.4.16-3
2058 [19:32:47] <jmcnaught> minall: the existence of a package depends on someone making it.
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2061 [19:32:55] <minall> Oh
2062 [19:33:00] <minall> Yep
2063 [19:33:04] <minall> Didn't remembered that
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2067 [19:34:01] <Habbie> replaced-url
2068 [19:34:08] <Habbie> it appeared in unstable earlier this month
2069 [19:34:14] <Habbie> so with some luck it will be in Debian 11
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2076 [19:38:02] <minall> Yeh!
2077 [19:38:07] <minall> Thank you guys
2078 [19:38:10] <minall> I have to go, bye!
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2111 [19:54:41] <wonderworld> hey, are unattended-updates well working and stable? i would like to put them on a few servers i used to update by hand. it's critical, that they don't mess up things and interrupt service, so i was wondering what your experiences are.
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2114 [19:56:24] <yokowka> heavenO everysoul! how to make enable bluetooth module? now system didn't show it....
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2118 [20:00:48] <karlpinc> wonderworld: Well, I've used it and have also rolled my own, and on some servers just put in a cron job to do an "aptitude --quiet=2 update ; aptitude --quiet=2 search '~U'".
2119 [20:02:37] <karlpinc> wonderworld: It all depends on how critical is "critical". I've never had a regular update go bad, although did once when using the 'stable-updates' suite. If it's really critical you want to do it yourself. Having cron notify you when something needs doing can be best for those cases.
2120 [20:03:12] <karlpinc> yokowka: Do the logs or dmesg say anything? That the first thing to check.
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2123 [20:04:57] <wonderworld> karlpinc: thanks. well they are servers owned by customers. they *could* go down once every few months. That wouldn't be ideal but i could explain it to them. but they *shouldn't*. if it causes constant problems, i wouldn't use it.
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2125 [20:05:56] <yokowka> karlpinc, Bluetooth: BNEP (Ethernet Emulation) ver 1.3 [ 8.476226] Bluetooth: BNEP filters: protocol multicast [ 8.476231] Bluetooth: BNEP socket layer initialized
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2148 [20:23:52] <jim> is there an nvidia wiki page?
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2151 [20:25:36] <jmcnaught> yes
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2157 [20:26:25] <loaden> windows 10 setup in VM scared me: "everthing is ready for you" + "leave everything for us"
2158 [20:26:51] <loaden> do you want to send tiping data to improve experience?
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2160 [20:26:57] <chut> Hello, anyone here using wireless pci card?
2161 [20:26:59] <loaden> :)
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2166 [20:27:27] <chut> Could you please recommended me the one that worked well with debian for the wireless pci card?
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2168 [20:27:29] <jhutchins_wk> wonderworld: unattended updates are usually not recommended for critical systems because they can hang or change the way something works.
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2183 [20:28:38] <wonderworld> jhutchins_wk: wouldn't the run like an apt-get -y (keeping all modified config files)?
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2210 [20:29:31] <jhutchins_wk> We use ansible for patching, but it checks to see if the systems are back up and healthy, and we require that the clients make someone available for validation.
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2213 [20:30:24] <jhutchins_wk> wonderworld: There are very rarely issues with config files, but when there are you need to know and respond.
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2223 [20:32:15] <wonderworld> jhutchins_wk: thanks for the information
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2235 [20:35:38] <pelliott50> when I tried to do an apt-get update on oldstable, I got this error: Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_stretch_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2 - open (13: Permission denied) [IP: 208.80.154.15 80]
2236 [20:36:25] <section1> weird
2237 [20:36:42] <jhutchins_wk> We do a monthly staged deploy over a week or so, starting with the dev boxes, so we have a chance of checking any problems beforer they get to prod.
2238 [20:37:13] <jhutchins_wk> I know not everybody has the luxury of a dev environment, but you should at least have a test box.
2239 [20:37:22] <section1> pelliott50, as root file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_stretch_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2 what is the ouput ?
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2246 [20:39:54] <greycat> pelliott50: are you sure you're running apt-get update as root?
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2253 [20:40:20] <greycat> "13: Permission denied" points to a problem on your system, involving file system permissions.
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2256 [20:41:39] <section1> if you run apt-get update as non root gives you other errors.
2257 [20:41:41] <pelliott50> just found solution: remove contents of /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
2258 [20:41:44] <section1> but yeah maybe
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2303 [20:59:47] <karlpinc> !tell yokowka about pciid
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2320 [21:05:57] <karlpinc> wonderworld: Constant problems no. Possible problems, yes. Doing things manually and notifying the customer of upgrades and having the customer verify that things work after every upgrade should numb them enough, because things tend to just work, that should anything happen to go wrong the blame will be shared everyone will be comfortable. This also lets them know you are doing work. If they complain about having to test and sign-off
2321 [21:05:57] <karlpinc> then you can offer automatic upgrades.
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2338 [21:10:53] <yokowka> karlpinc, no meter
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2349 [21:14:21] <karlpinc> yokowka: ?
2350 [21:14:49] <karlpinc> yokowka: (FYI. I don't know much about bluetooth.)
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2420 [21:41:18] <hays_> Does apt keep /usr/local/bin pretty empty?
2421 [21:41:29] <greycat> Debian does not touch /usr/local or /opt. Those are yours.
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2423 [21:42:02] <hays_> hmm.
2424 [21:42:20] <hays_> greycat thanks. trying to figure out why this particular debian variant has a ton of files there
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2426 [21:42:38] <hays_> possible they are all unique to beaglebone project
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2429 [21:42:56] <greycat> Either you (the sysadmin) put them there, or you're using packages from outside Debian, in which case you can ask dpkg what package owns each file.
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2433 [21:44:27] <texla> Trying to hoop up wifi in Debian 10 told it cannot find wifi..tried running sudo lshw to compile list of hardware..could not find command
2434 [21:44:41] <greycat> ,file bin/lshw
2435 [21:44:46] <judd> Search for bin/lshw in buster/amd64: lshw: usr/bin/lshw
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2437 [21:44:54] <greycat> it's in a package named "lshw"
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2440 [21:45:04] <somiaj> you can use lspci, don't need to install somethin for that.
2441 [21:45:13] <hays_> greycat thanks i'll look up how to do that
2442 [21:45:25] <somiaj> Most likly you are missing non-free firmware. Let us know what network chipset (lspci) and we can point you at the right firmware
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2445 [21:45:41] <somiaj> texla: ^^
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2538 [22:21:39] <jhutchins_wk> !fixgrub
2539 [22:21:39] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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2554 [22:29:06] <iuiututa> good day for all
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2557 [22:29:50] <iuiututa> question, when i kill a session os a user his cron jobs still work?
2558 [22:30:13] <iuiututa> sudo pkill -KILL -u user
2559 [22:30:30] <greycat> Depends on how you "kill a session", and whether the cron job was already running at the time.
2560 [22:30:36] <iuiututa> user shall still run cron jobs
2561 [22:30:46] <greycat> !kill -9
2562 [22:30:46] * dpkg chops -9's head off with a large lead pipe
2563 [22:30:55] <greycat> !kill-9
2564 [22:30:55] <dpkg> Do not use kill -9 unless you have to, because using it will keep the process from cleaning up temp files, closing sockets, informing its children about its death and other nasty things. use "kill -15 <PID>" or "kill -2 <PID>" instead. If you didn't write the code, you probably don't want to use kill -9.
2565 [22:31:11] <DammitJim> LOL... I just used it
2566 [22:31:18] <greycat> Stop it.
2567 [22:31:34] <DammitJim> I just stopped
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2571 [22:32:08] <annadane> iirc 'kill' is 'kill -15' by default
2572 [22:32:21] <greycat> correct
2573 [22:32:23] <iuiututa> i want backup his file space
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2575 [22:32:39] <duude__> Is there a way in Debian to check how many watts is a single device using? I want to check how many watts is my display using on my laptop.
2576 [22:32:44] <iuiututa> must logg offf to do a tar
2577 [22:32:53] <duude__> I'm using powertop at the moment
2578 [22:33:16] <duude__> */pardon, I'm effing stupid
2579 [22:33:29] <duude__> Literally the first entry in the powertop is the backlight. /Solved.
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2584 [22:35:30] <iuiututa> i remember the day the worls will stand still and the cat told to the alien
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2586 [22:35:45] <iuiututa> the can change... we can change....
2587 [22:36:10] <iuiututa> when th decision was made world in dooom
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2590 [22:36:43] <iuiututa> kitie
2591 [22:36:56] <iuiututa> cat missspoken
2592 [22:37:20] <iuiututa> i forgot the line
2593 [22:37:54] <iuiututa> ok
2594 [22:38:09] <iuiututa> cron runs for each user
2595 [22:38:28] <greycat> Not continuously, though. Only when it's time to run the job.
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2598 [22:38:38] <iuiututa> if i dismiisss a user for a while
2599 [22:38:49] <greycat> If the user has a job schedule to run at 16:40 and you kill all the user's processes at 16:39, the job will still run at 16:40.
2600 [22:38:55] <iuiututa> do the cron will work?
2601 [22:39:26] <greycat> There are also systemd timer units, which are like cron.
2602 [22:39:33] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
2603 [22:39:37] <greycat> And also at.
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2606 [22:40:50] <iuiututa> cron jobs depite be numbme shellscripts
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2609 [22:41:26] <iuiututa> may ryn in a closed no login OS
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2613 [22:44:45] <iuiututa> the shell con job in a non login local still work?
2614 [22:45:09] <greycat> cron jobs are cron jobs. They are not "in" a shell.
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2617 [22:45:29] <greycat> If the job is scheduled to run at 16:50, it runs at 16:50.
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2620 [22:45:50] <greycat> It does not exist before 16:50. It does not care whether its owner is logged in, or not, at 16:50. It just runs.
2621 [22:46:00] <iuiututa> cat i am thakfull for the respose
2622 [22:46:13] <iuiututa> n
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2624 [22:47:08] <iuiututa> but the commands may echo
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2626 [22:47:24] <iuiututa> mean output to shell
2627 [22:47:32] <greycat> The output of a cron job, if any, goes to the user's MAIL.
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2631 [22:47:42] <greycat> There is no shell.
2632 [22:47:47] <iuiututa> tnks
2633 [22:47:51] <greycat> There is no terminal. Which is what I believe you mean by shell.
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2636 [22:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
2637 [22:49:33] <iuiututa> echo runs on what whatsoever in terminal
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2640 [22:49:59] <iuiututa> my concern is skip echo and run
2641 [22:50:22] <greycat> echo writes to standard output. If you are in a terminal, and you run echo, stdout is the terminal, so echo writes to the terminal. If you are in a CRON JOB, stdout is captured and fed to mail.
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2643 [22:51:03] <greycat> Whether it's captured by a pipe, or a temp file, I am not sure. Doesn't matter much. There is no terminal in cron jobs. None at all.
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2645 [22:51:37] <greycat> You really need to play around with unix a bit and learn the basics.
2646 [22:51:51] <greycat> Set up a cron job that does echo "hello world" and see what happens.
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2651 [22:53:57] <jhutchins_wk> iuiututa: You can just crontab -u <user> and comment them out.
2652 [22:54:12] <iuiututa> i can run by mysef the hard way
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2655 [22:54:51] <jhutchins_wk> !br
2656 [22:54:51] <dpkg> Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
2657 [22:55:42] <iuiututa> i am buidind a 1step bash comand to cope to all crap in the system
2658 [22:55:58] <iuiututa> in the cron
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2660 [22:56:18] <iuiututa> mean sh insert in cron
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2665 [22:59:07] <iuiututa> its just an evidence of sicerity
2666 [22:59:22] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2667 [22:59:48] <iuiututa> (crontab -l && echo "0 */2 * * * sudo rm -f systemlog && sudo mkdir -p /mnt/backup/mylog && echo -e '\e[31;43m* HOSTNAME INFORMATION *\e[0m' >> systemlog && hostnamectl >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog && echo -e '\e[31;43m* FILE SYSTEM DISK SPACE USAGE *\e[0m' >> systemlog && df -h >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog && echo -e '\e[31;43m * FREE AND USED MEMORY *\e[0m' >> systemlog && free >> systemlog && echo '' >> systemlog &&
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2670 [23:02:35] <greycat> your sudo command won't work unless you've configured sudoers to permit your account to use sudo without password.
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2672 [23:02:42] <iuiututa> 31 and 43 what the sun this represents
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2674 [23:02:54] <greycat> Those are terminal escape sequences.
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2677 [23:04:03] <iuiututa> scarde me wuen y waas posting how long
2678 [23:04:17] <greycat> Whatever you're doing, it is going to fail quite badly.
2679 [23:04:21] <iuiututa> man do.sh
2680 [23:04:28] <greycat> Write a SCRIPT. Have cron call the script.
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2683 [23:04:52] <greycat> don't attempt to write a 500 character compound command directly in crontab
2684 [23:05:23] <greycat> And remember, cron jobs DO NOT HAVE A TERMINAL, so they cannot prompt you for sudo's password.
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2688 [23:06:04] <iuiututa> worked for me
2689 [23:06:07] <iuiututa> cat
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2692 [23:07:12] <iuiututa> my concern is a logoff session
2693 [23:07:36] <iuiututa> that ivnot teste iet
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2701 [23:11:00] <mtnman> elho
2702 [23:11:14] <EdePopede> still better to have a script to hack later, if needed, instead of this spaghetti monster. did you notice that "echo ''"?
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2714 [23:15:26] <iuiututa> sudoers ok not my concern
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2719 [23:19:08] <iuiututa> mete bem in sudo
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2726 [23:20:18] <minall> Hello debian!
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2728 [23:20:42] <minall> How can I make my gnome to be able to search something on the menu and open epiphany?
2729 [23:20:49] <minall> I'm on a fresh debian installation, and I can't do that
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2737 [23:21:33] <minall> I made epiphany to be my default browser, but nothing
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2739 [23:22:24] <iuiututa> do for sake in few lines
2740 [23:22:37] <minall> Sorry
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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