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• 21[00:24:29] <Schwarzbaer> Hi. I appear to be behind the times when it comes to adminning. usermod is gone in Buster?
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• 26[00:25:09] <jmcnaught> !buster su
• 27[00:25:09] <dpkg> The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable so commands normally available to root are not found. Put ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes in /etc/login.defs to get an approximation of the old behavior, or just use `su -` instead of plain `su`. See replaced-url
• 28[00:25:16] <jmcnaught> Schwarzbaer: probably this ^^
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• 31[00:27:32] <Schwarzbaer> Thanks.
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• 83[00:56:18] <ihateAdmins> my problem still remains. After almost 90minutes the connection died
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• 92[01:00:32] <digital-_-mystik> hello.. I migrated my debian virtual machine from vdi to qcow2 for QEMU/KVM, and was wondering if anyone knows how I can enable the Spice drivers to allow for the extras like resolution resizing to window changes and general performance improvements.. according to spice-space.org, I need to install x86-video-qxl but it looks like it isn't in the repos
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• 95[01:01:16] <digital-_-mystik> the other driver needed is spice-vdagent which is available
• 96[01:01:53] <digital-_-mystik> sorry if this is the wrong place to ask
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• 99[01:04:28] <swift110> hmm
• 100[01:05:42] <warsoul> this is the second time my pc freezes
• 101[01:05:50] <warsoul> can someone help me
• 102[01:05:51] <ihateAdmins> the ssh service randomly just crashed again
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• 104[01:06:28] <ihateAdmins> there is nothing in the syslog and status. it is still running, but until i ping to my router it is not available
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• 108[01:07:49] <ihateAdmins> the problem seems to be wpa_supplicant
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• 110[01:08:06] <ihateAdmins> but i can ping the pc all the time idk why the services aren't available then as well
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• 124[01:16:48] <warsoul> and my system is up to date
• 125[01:18:23] <jlbuckner> digital-_-mystik, I think the package on Debian is xserver-xorg-video-qxl.
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• 128[01:18:52] <jlbuckner> apt info shows "This package is built from the X.org xf86-video-qxl driver module."
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• 136[01:22:10] <digital-_-mystik> jlbuckner: thanks
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• 209[02:18:56] <warsoul> this is the second time my pc freezes
• 210[02:19:01] <warsoul> i have debian 10
• 211[02:19:11] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 212[02:19:36] <Henry151> warsoul: when it freezes, were you able to/did you try to switch to a different tty with ctrl+alt+f3 or similar?
• 213[02:19:52] <warsoul> no
• 214[02:19:59] <warsoul> was not doing nothing
• 215[02:20:09] <Henry151> so didn't try, or trying it did not respond?
• 216[02:20:17] <warsoul> no respond
• 217[02:20:24] <Henry151> ok
• 218[02:21:26] <Henry151> do you have ssh access to the machine from another machine?
• 219[02:21:36] <warsoul> no
• 220[02:21:40] <warsoul> im on the machine now
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• 222[02:21:50] <warsoul> is working fine
• 223[02:21:58] <warsoul> i just dont know why it freezes
• 224[02:22:06] <warsoul> first time was just using irc
• 225[02:22:20] *** Quits: lll3N1GmAlll_ (~lll3N1GmA@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 226[02:22:20] <warsoul> and now the last time was browsing on the net
• 227[02:22:23] <warsoul> using firefox
• 228[02:22:49] <Henry151> Ok. I'm not sure how much help i can be, but you might find something useful in /var/log/syslog, if you can find the timestamps that correspond with when it froze and see if there is anything unusual or suspect there
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• 232[02:24:24] <Henry151> also, if you can provide more info about your system, that may help me or others help you diagnose
• 233[02:24:43] <Henry151> like the exact model of your computer and such
• 234[02:25:15] <Henry151> maybe pastebin the output from a command like lshw or similar
• 235[02:26:13] <warsoul> Sep 11 01:06:21 wsbox kernel: [ 3916.190746] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: WARN Wrong bounce buffer write length: 522 != 0
• 236[02:26:13] <warsoul> Sep 11 01:13:32 wsbox kernel: [ 4347.040710] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: WARN Wrong bounce buffer write length: 998 != 360
• 237[02:26:29] <warsoul> this are the last two ones from last night
• 238[02:26:33] <warsoul> 1am in the morning
• 239[02:26:36] <warsoul> that it freezes
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• 243[02:31:20] <Henry151> well, i was unable to find anything about the "Wrong bounce buffer write length" .. hopefully someone more knowledgeable can weigh in for you. Good luck!
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• 248[02:38:04] <jh001_> warsoul: xhci_hcd - perhaps a misbehaving USB device?
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• 259[02:47:30] <icthv> I'm running rsync at night to back up files to a thumbdrive, is it necessary to have the 'sync' command run after rsync, in case of a power outage for instance?
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• 261[02:48:09] <warsoul> jh001_ i just have the wifi adapter connected
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• 275[02:55:20] <LtL> icthv: it is a very good idea, yes sync.
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• 277[02:56:55] <LtL> warsoul: type 'last' in a shell, does the crash time in 'last' happen close to those two lines time? that xhci_hcd is a USB kernel driver fyi
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• 284[02:59:18] <warsoul> Ltl no
• 285[02:59:26] <LtL> warsoul: also, those are only warnings, probably not serious, but could be a hardware issue, host controller, or USB device.. I've never seen them but google has.
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• 287[03:00:25] <LtL> warsoul: have you made any big changes lately? how old is the installation?
• 288[03:00:52] <warsoul> a month old
• 289[03:00:58] <warsoul> no big changes at all
• 290[03:01:56] <LtL> and you have to hard power down?
• 291[03:02:45] *** Quits: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 292[03:03:07] <LtL> i mean completely frozen?
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• 294[03:03:57] <swift110> hey all
• 295[03:05:28] <swift110> Ok so I tried to login to my laptop and it wont accept my password
• 296[03:07:04] <warsoul> yes
• 297[03:07:19] <warsoul> i have to push the cpu button for 10 seconds so reboots
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• 302[03:10:53] <asterismo_l> hi
• 303[03:10:59] *** Parts: icthv (~icthv@replaced-ip) ()
• 304[03:11:03] <asterismo_l> i could not install docker in debian 9
• 305[03:11:30] <asterismo_l> is there anyway to install it? a compatible repository?
• 306[03:12:11] <SerajewelKS> asterismo_l: docker has their own repository for debian. it's unsupported by debian. the docker community provides support.
• 307[03:13:01] <asterismo_l> is there a channel on freenode?
• 308[03:13:10] <SerajewelKS> i'd guess #docker
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• 310[03:13:15] <SerajewelKS> you can always try it and see if it's there
• 311[03:13:16] <asterismo_l> i'll try #docker
• 312[03:13:35] <asterismo_l> yes, thanks
• 313[03:14:47] <jh001_> warsoul: the wifi is USB?
• 314[03:15:56] <warsoul> jh001_ yes
• 315[03:16:43] <LtL> swift110: caps lock key on by any chance?
• 316[03:16:46] <Henry151> i bet it's the USB wifi dongle
• 317[03:17:11] <jh001_> warsoul: ok, only advice I have for now is - next time it hangs, pull that USB device and see if things free up.
• 318[03:17:15] <Henry151> warsoul: what usb wifi dongle are you using? I have been absent so sorry if you said it before
• 319[03:18:24] <warsoul> netgear
• 320[03:18:27] <warsoul> dont now the model
• 321[03:19:19] <Henry151> if you run a sudo dmesg -w, and then you unplug and plug back in the wifi dongle, it's gonna print the model name and such
• 322[03:20:05] <Henry151> anyway, if there are multiple different options for the wifi dongle drivers, you might try switching to a different one.
• 323[03:20:47] <Henry151> i had some problems once not exactly similar but issues with a wifi driver causing problems, and i found there were more than one option for which wifi driver to use
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• 326[03:22:05] <warsoul> netgear model: A6210
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• 328[03:23:17] <warsoul> i just notice when i boot my pc i see this error on screen what to now why or how can i fix them? its a few of them
• 329[03:23:25] <warsoul> [ 1.603219] ACPI BIOS Error (bug): Could not resolve [\_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT5._GTF.DSSP], AE_NOT_FOUND (20180810/psargs-330)
• 330[03:23:51] <warsoul> [ 1.602191] ACPI Error: Method parse/execution failed \_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT4._GTF, AE_NOT_FOUND (20180810/psparse-516)
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• 332[03:25:24] <swift110> LtL, caps lock was not on
• 333[03:25:47] <LtL> warsoul: acpi errors are not uncommom
• 334[03:26:14] <swift110> LtL, can I fix this from the terminal
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• 338[03:28:16] <LtL> swift110: if you get to a root terminal yes, can you get in recovery mode
• 339[03:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1548
• 340[03:29:09] <Henry151> warsoul: do you know what driver you are using? Did you have to enable non-free sources to get the wifi driver working?
• 341[03:29:46] <jh001_> warsoul: agree with your other helpers here. I suspect you have a flaky usb device or flaky usb port. Could be a flaky driver. Again, next hang, pull it and see what happens - you were dead anyway.
• 342[03:30:06] <jh001_> or is it "flakey?"
• 343[03:30:23] <Henry151> jh001_: ##English should be able to tell us.
• 344[03:30:29] * Henry151 goes to ask them
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• 347[03:31:34] <warsoul> i had to add non-free
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• 351[03:31:42] <warsoul> but i dont remember what driver was
• 352[03:32:23] <Henry151> do you have package firmware-misc-nonfree installed?
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• 354[03:32:46] <Henry151> that has the mt76 drivers that seem to be a possible match according to replaced-url
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• 356[03:33:27] <naribia> hello. I am running a debian 10 linux machine and it is not staying on permanently, I'm not sure why, it seems to be on for a couple days or maybe 1 day I'm not sure, and then turns off.
• 357[03:33:41] <swift110> LtL, ok cool how do I do that
• 358[03:33:46] <Henry151> and, jh001_ , ##English seems to agree that it is "flaky" not "flakey"
• 359[03:33:46] <warsoul> Henry151, dont now how can i check that
• 360[03:33:58] <naribia> I need remote access all the time so it's a hassle. I haven't found anything in the syslog and the power settings are not set to ever sleep, how can I see what's cuasing it to shutdown?
• 361[03:33:59] <Henry151> warsoul: apt list firmware-misc-nonfree
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• 364[03:34:23] <Henry151> see if it says [installed] or not
• 365[03:34:30] <LtL> swift110: what prompt to you get in recovery mode/
• 366[03:34:42] <warsoul> firmware-misc-nonfree/now 20190717-1 all [installed,local]
• 367[03:34:42] <warsoul> N: There is 1 additional version. Please use the '-a' switch to see it
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• 372[03:35:36] <Henry151> ok, don't know why you'd have multiple versions, mine is 20190114-2 , but anyway, looks like you've got it
• 373[03:35:56] <Henry151> not sure if that means that you're using it, i'm not much help sorry
• 374[03:36:40] <LtL> swift110: at the grub screen you should see advanced options, see if it shows recovery mode
• 375[03:37:03] <Henry151> can you install lshw if you don't have it (apt install lshw) and do "sudo lshw -C network" and pastebin it?
• 376[03:37:07] <swift110> LtL, i am getting authentification failure when i do the su command from the terminal
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• 379[03:38:21] <Henry151> in my case, that reveals that i am using driver iwlwifi.. it should tell us what wifi driver you are using, among other things
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• 381[03:39:43] <LtL> swift110: get back to the grub screen, hit 'e' for edit, find the linux boot line and remove the word quiet, then ctrl+x to boot, look for failed services as it boots
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• 383[03:40:59] <LtL> i'm suspecting PAM is messed up
• 384[03:41:19] <swift110> ok
• 385[03:42:10] <LtL> warsoul: lsmod will show all modules, you should see the wifi one and recognize it.
• 386[03:42:16] <swift110> ok
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• 395[03:47:26] <LtL> Swant: did you edit the boot line? any red lines saying failed
• 396[03:47:47] <LtL> Swant: sorry.
• 397[03:48:04] <Henry151> LtL: thanks for offering an easier way to find wifi driver :shrug: i didn't really know how and found the lshw way but that's way easier.
• 398[03:48:39] <LtL> Henry151: i have no idea what driver netgear uses
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• 401[03:51:25] <LtL> warsoul: run dmesg |grep firmware .. anything odd showing up
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• 404[03:54:37] <LtL> okay, i'm out of time, gotta go.
• 405[03:54:53] <Henry151> thanks for helping!
• 406[03:54:54] <warsoul> brb
• 407[03:54:56] <warsoul> sorry
• 408[03:55:44] <warsoul> Ltl was changing dippers lol
• 409[03:56:19] <jh001_> Henry151: good to know, appreciate the effort.
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• 463[04:20:30] <warsoul> [ 20.540812] mt76x2u 4-6:1.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware mediatek/mt7662u_rom_patch.bin
• 464[04:20:30] <warsoul> [ 20.757453] mt76x2u 4-6:1.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware mediatek/mt7662u.bin
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• 466[04:21:04] <warsoul> that came after
• 467[04:21:07] <warsoul> sudo dmesg |grep firmware
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• 469[04:21:11] <awal1> Any usb wifi adapter 5GHz compatible working with drivers AVAILABLE ON DEBIAN REPOS?
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• 474[04:26:38] <nolan_> awal1: kernal 4.19? replaced-url
• 475[04:27:17] <awal1> ,v kernels
• 476[04:27:18] <judd> No package named 'kernels' was found in amd64.
• 477[04:27:21] <nolan_> kernel*
• 478[04:27:23] <awal1> ,v kernel
• 479[04:27:24] <judd> No package named 'kernel' was found in amd64.
• 480[04:27:58] <dvs> ,kernels
• 481[04:27:59] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-rc5-686 (5.3~rc5-1~exp2); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1)
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• 483[04:28:07] <awal1> I am not on my debian sysstem now (i am at work) . i run Sid, latest kernel so
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• 485[04:28:20] <nolan_> just trying to help, i am by no means an expert
• 486[04:29:00] <awal1> i will check the link. ok
• 487[04:29:07] <nolan_> ok good job
• 488[04:29:39] <awal1> i did a heavy web search and seems no usb 5ghz supported for now but i tought maybe i missed something somewhere
• 489[04:29:58] <warsoul> what wifi adapter is compatible with debian 10 because this one has only 53% signal strength and my other pc have 100%
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• 491[04:30:38] <awal1> warsoul, you have many
• 492[04:30:45] <awal1> dpkg: wifi
• 493[04:30:45] <dpkg> Support for your wireless LAN device is dependent on the chipset within. Don't know what you have? Ask me about <what's my wireless>. Atheros: <atheros>; Atmel: <atmel>; Broadcom: <broadcom>; Intel: <intel>; Intersil: <prism>; Marvell: <marvell>; Ralink: <ralink>; Realtek: <realtek>; TI: <acx-mac80211>; VIA: <vt665x>; ZyDAS: <zydas>. See also <crda>, <killswitch>, <wpa>. replaced-url
• 494[04:32:25] <warsoul> dpkg: whats my wireless
• 495[04:32:25] <dpkg> Install the hwinfo package and execute "/usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan", or replaced-url
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• 497[04:33:24] <brutser> i have luks encrypted rootfs /dev/sdb , now I find the UUID with cryptsetup luksUUID, I enter this UUID=xxx in crypttab, but I get the error: cryptsetup: ERROR: Couldn't resolve device. <<< how come??
• 498[04:33:59] <brutser> i know i can put /dev/sdb, but i rather prefer to use UUID
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• 504[04:39:00] <karlpinc> brutser: This is in the initramfs? You rebuilt the initramfs?
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• 507[04:39:42] <brutser> karlpinc: yes and i booted already successfully, but i had to put /dev/sdb
• 508[04:40:07] <brutser> so now I am in the system trying to find out why i cannot use UUID
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• 510[04:42:18] <brutser> i also wonder if I do "cryptsetup luksUUID /dev/sdb" what that UUID is about
• 511[04:43:32] <karlpinc> brutser: You might try looking in the initramfs and checking it's crypttab.
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• 515[04:46:00] <karlpinc> brutser: It's relying on symlinks in /dev/disk/by-uuid. I don't know when these are setup in the boot process. At one point I played around with the initramfs and recall booting into it and looking around but don't recall what I did.
• 516[04:46:21] <brutser> yes i think they are coming from fstab most likely?
• 517[04:46:58] <karlpinc> brutser: I'd think udev looking "inside" stuff after device discovery. But that's a guess.
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• 519[04:47:31] <brutser> ok, so then i just stick with /dev/sdb i guess :)
• 520[04:48:09] <karlpinc> brutser: So maybe some udev stuff should be moved into the initramfs. Dunno. Maybe it's supposed to work and you can poke about, figure out the problem, and submit a patch to the bug tracking system.
• 521[04:48:22] <karlpinc> (Or maybe you're doing it wrong. :-)
• 522[04:48:41] <brutser> it's already complaining when i try to rebuild the initramfs
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• 524[04:48:52] <brutser> the error comes from update-initramfs -u
• 525[04:49:39] <brutser> anyhow, i will see what to do, thanks
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• 550[05:13:59] <naribia> anyone have an idea why my debian 10 box does not stay online constantly? I don't see any power settings to cuase it, anybody know how I can trouble shoot this?
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• 557[05:18:34] <jh001_> naribia: nothing in /var/log/messages?
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• 562[05:23:59] <naribia> jh001_: not seeing anything really to indicate a reason for shutdown
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• 572[05:29:59] <karlpinc> naribia: How do you know it is "shutdown"? Does the screen go blank, the network not respond to pings, the keyboard not respond, what?
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• 574[05:30:58] <karlpinc> naribia: There is also /var/log/syslog and dmesg to look at.
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• 592[05:59:13] <narutowaifu> can somebody explain me why firefox is distributed unmodified within debian? Their policy says it must either be rebranded or it's basically non free software replaced-url
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• 632[06:53:16] <aypea[1]> narutowaifu: that got resolved a while back. can't remember the details, though.
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• 648[07:16:44] <narutowaifu> aypea[1] I'd exactly like to know the details, because the way firefox is packaged does not seem to me like it's free software at all
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• 652[07:21:49] <aypea[1]> narutowaifu: DDG is at your service :)
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• 669[07:39:26] <narutowaifu> aypea[1] I did try to search before coming here but I did not find any useful page that described the reasons for accepting firefox
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• 685[07:56:21] <paulez> narutowaifu: replaced-url
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• 704[08:12:10] <cooeek> Bonjour
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• 706[08:12:28] <annadane> o/
• 707[08:12:42] <Haohmaru> bon-wat?
• 708[08:13:06] <annadane> bonjovi
• 709[08:13:22] <Haohmaru> i don't like him much
• 710[08:13:36] <crowley95> hi
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• 718[08:20:13] <dunningk> hello does anyone know where I can disable password to suspend the system?
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• 760[08:47:42] <geo37> Can I install debian with guided partitioning without it making a swap?
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• 768[08:53:59] <kunningd> not sure about debian 10, but in debian 9 you had to approve the partitioning scheme prior to installing in guided partitioning
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• 771[08:54:26] <Lope> does anyone know how I can fix my apt? I tried to install some stuff and ran out of space
• 772[08:54:30] <Lope> now apt is really screwed
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• 775[08:55:10] <Lope> I can't remove anything, it keeps saying "you might want to run 'apt --fix-broken install' to correct these'
• 776[08:55:20] <Lope> If I run that it tries to install stuff and fails
• 777[08:55:30] <Lope> I can't autoremove
• 778[08:55:30] <kunningd> sudo apt-get clean
• 779[08:55:33] <Lope> Can't remove
• 780[08:55:35] <Lope> I've done a clean
• 781[08:55:46] <kunningd> did you clean your .cache?
• 782[08:55:52] <kunningd> not sure if apt caches there
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• 784[08:56:29] <towo^work> Lope, what dow df -h show to you?
• 785[08:56:32] <towo^work> grr
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• 787[08:56:38] <towo^work> Lope, what does df -h show to you?
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• 791[08:57:23] <Lope> towo^work, it says root has 738M free
• 792[08:57:42] <Lope> kunningd, what is .cache?
• 793[08:57:42] <kunningd> can you run du -h /var/log/
• 794[08:57:44] <towo^work> 738M free of what size?
• 795[08:57:59] <kunningd> it's a directory in your home directory where all .cached files are stored
• 796[08:58:11] <towo^work> apt soes never write in any home dir
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• 798[08:58:14] <kunningd> run du -h ~/.cache
• 799[08:58:15] <towo^work> *does
• 800[08:58:24] <kunningd> he said he ran out of space
• 801[08:58:40] <Lope> kunningd, /var/log dirs are mostly 4K one 420K and one 4M
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• 803[08:58:59] <Lope> towo^work, / has 738M free, not sure what you're asking
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• 806[08:59:26] <kunningd> did you recently change your apt repositories?
• 807[08:59:32] <kunningd> did you add or remove some?
• 808[08:59:33] <Lope> well 738M should be enough space to remove some shit
• 809[08:59:41] <Lope> kunningd, i added some a few steps back
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• 811[08:59:51] <Lope> just the normal stuff, contrib and non-free
• 812[08:59:54] <geo37> Ugg, Debian 10 still has that bug where it's trying to create a 274GB swap partition.
• 813[09:00:03] <kunningd> when you run sudo update does it show errors?
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• 815[09:00:07] <kunningd> apt sudo update *
• 816[09:00:12] <kunningd> fuck
• 817[09:00:17] <kunningd> sudo apt update :D
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• 819[09:00:45] <Lope> kunningd, apt update completes without error
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• 821[09:00:50] <kunningd> I had a simmilar problem
• 822[09:01:00] <Lope> all packages are up to date, it says
• 823[09:01:19] <kunningd> someone suggested running sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, it worked, but I read later on it's not advisable though
• 824[09:01:23] <Lope> okay just going to format and reinstall
• 825[09:01:24] <kunningd> you could try it, but not sure
• 826[09:01:27] <kunningd> wait
• 827[09:01:30] <Lope> okay
• 828[09:01:34] <kunningd> try sudo apt-get dist-upgrade first
• 829[09:01:38] <Lope> but I can't run autoremove, can't remove anything
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• 831[09:01:51] <Lope> dist-upgrade is probably not going to work either
• 832[09:02:00] <Lope> it keeps trying to finish installing what got messed up
• 833[09:02:18] <Lope> I want to remove what I recently tried to install and get back to apt working properly
• 834[09:02:43] <kunningd> replaced-url
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• 836[09:03:43] <kreyren> Debian upgraded on 5.2.0 ? O.o
• 837[09:04:11] <kunningd> btw Lope stupid question, but did you try rebooting?
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• 846[09:08:45] <nvz> kunningd: ? what is the question in that?
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• 848[09:09:03] <kunningd> <Lope> I can't remove anything, it keeps saying "you might want to run 'apt --fix-broken install' to correct these'
• 849[09:09:03] <kunningd> <Lope> If I run that it tries to install stuff and fails
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• 852[09:10:13] <nvz> yeah I have a backlog.. I don't see how any of it relates to linux 5.2
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• 854[09:11:22] <Rabid_Python> it doesn't that is debian or debian spinoff only.
• 855[09:11:28] <annadane> geo37, wait, what? the installer tries to make a 274G swap partition?
• 856[09:11:31] <Rabid_Python> you only get that with apt package manager systems.
• 857[09:11:57] <Rabid_Python> hard drive or solid state drive?
• 858[09:12:17] *** Joins: CurryWurst (~CurryWurs@replaced-ip)
• 859[09:12:31] <annadane> weird, /dev/sda1 909G 9.0G 853G 2% /
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• 861[09:13:23] <annadane> had thought this computer had 928 G or so
• 862[09:13:24] <Rabid_Python> well, on SSD they are fast enough to compesate, but mainly it's bad to use SSD with swap because SSDs have a much more limited write max than does a HHD/
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• 864[09:13:40] <Lope> kunningd, I did try rebooting
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• 866[09:13:50] <Rabid_Python> very bad idea to have swap on for SSD.. unless your ram is so little that it has to have it.
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• 868[09:14:15] <Lope> kunning towo^work I hosed the whole installation. it's reinstalling.
• 869[09:14:59] <annadane> is it possible df -h isn't showing everything i have?
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• 871[09:15:16] <ratrace> Rabid_Python: that's a myth. Unless you have constant swap storms, SSDs won't be significantly affected
• 872[09:15:34] <Rabid_Python> that absolutely is not a myth.
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• 874[09:15:44] <Rabid_Python> SSD DO have limited write.
• 875[09:15:55] <ratrace> They do. But how much? replaced-url
• 876[09:15:57] <Rabid_Python> even the companies that make the drives says that.
• 877[09:16:11] <ratrace> You'd need constant swap storms to start approaching that limit with modern SSDs
• 878[09:16:12] <Rabid_Python> it varies between quality.
• 879[09:16:24] <Rabid_Python> if you replace the ssd regularly then find.. use it
• 880[09:16:51] <Rabid_Python> and if you happen to have 32+ gig ram then swap space is pointless.
• 881[09:16:57] <ratrace> Sure it depends on the quality. But blanket statement like "very bad idea to have swap on SSDs" is a myth nowadays.
• 882[09:17:07] <Rabid_Python> to some limited extent even 16 gig is enough to not need swap.
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• 886[09:17:30] <Rabid_Python> i do not and have not used swap in years. my cheap arse system runs like lightning,
• 887[09:17:32] <Rabid_Python> .
• 888[09:17:41] <Lope> I'm installing a system with 4G RAM, how much swap should I set? I was going for 8G?
• 889[09:17:51] <Lope> On SSD
• 890[09:18:05] <Rabid_Python> if you only have 4 gig then as i said.. may as well use swap.
• 891[09:18:07] <ratrace> Rabid_Python: that's fine. But swap doesn't hurt modern SSD unless you have constant swap storms
• 892[09:18:18] <ayew> i use 12Gb ram and i cant remeber ever seeing my 2gb swap being used
• 893[09:18:23] <ratrace> Lope: I'd go with 2
• 894[09:18:33] <annadane> does anyone know if df shows swap?
• 895[09:18:37] <Rabid_Python> if you have very little ram then the amount of swap usage will write a lot more than if you have plenty or ram
• 896[09:18:46] <Rabid_Python> of
• 897[09:18:59] <Rabid_Python> the less ram you have the more swap space will be used.
• 898[09:19:04] <ratrace> annadane: no, but top does, and swapon -s
• 899[09:19:12] <Rabid_Python> more frequent...
• 900[09:19:28] <Rabid_Python> hence way more writes.
• 901[09:19:34] <Lope> ratrace, 4G RAM + 2G swap, that's 6G of memory, that's pathetic though?
• 902[09:19:48] <Rabid_Python> but not much of a choice if you have 4 or less gb ram.
• 903[09:19:50] <ratrace> Lope: well, totally depends on what you intend to run in those 4G
• 904[09:19:53] <Lope> It's an old surface pro 2
• 905[09:20:18] <Lope> ratrace, yaeh, I'm going to go with 8G for now, cos 4G is really tiny, just KDE and the kernel etc is already like 800M
• 906[09:20:20] <Rabid_Python> then again,, if you use a low resource linux distro like q4OS then 4 gig is a lot.
• 907[09:20:39] <Lope> I'll be running debian with KDE plasma
• 908[09:20:39] <Rabid_Python> Q4OS requires only 128 meg ram
• 909[09:20:43] <Rabid_Python> unless they chagned it.
• 910[09:20:47] <ratrace> Looking at my 64G RAM servers now, they all have a few hundred MB in swap right now. Slowly develops over high uptime as unneded pages are found and paged out. I use swappiness of 10
• 911[09:20:54] <annadane> strange. thought this pc had 928 G but i only have 909 G with ~8 G of swap
• 912[09:20:58] <annadane> maybe i'm misremembering things
• 913[09:21:03] <ratrace> /higher/
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• 915[09:21:36] <Lope> I'm installing debian from a live ISO
• 916[09:21:41] <Rabid_Python> Lope if you like KDE but it uses too much resources then try google or youtube search budgie DE
• 917[09:21:48] <Lope> the installer offers me to encrypt swap, but then wants me to enter a password
• 918[09:21:52] <Lope> that doesn't seem right
• 919[09:21:56] <geo37> Use awesomeWM
• 920[09:21:58] <Lope> Should I tick the box to encrypt or not?
• 921[09:21:59] <Rabid_Python> Budgie was built from KDE
• 922[09:22:01] *** Joins: kreyren (~user@replaced-ip)
• 923[09:22:15] <Lope> I'm assuming the encryption tickbox is meant for normal data partitions
• 924[09:22:17] <ratrace> Lope: you can always set up encrypted (with urandom key) swap later
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• 926[09:22:36] <Lope> Rabid_Python, cool, will check it out some time
• 927[09:22:37] <ZaZaGX> hi
• 928[09:22:41] <geo37> Does anyone know if it would be safe to resize my root partition after install? The installer won't let me resize the root partition.
• 929[09:22:46] <Rabid_Python> AwesomeWM would be even better. but if you feel like you are addicted to kde but your system does not manage it well. Budgie looks a lot like KDE because it was built to be KDE for weaker system.
• 930[09:22:57] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, that sounds good. Okay I'll just let the installer do whatever for now.
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• 932[09:22:59] <Rabid_Python> I like awesome and lubuntu desktops for my older systems.
• 933[09:23:06] <Lope> At least having some swap will help things along.
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• 935[09:23:26] <Rabid_Python> yep lope. i'd go for at least 4 gb swap because you only have 4gb ram.
• 936[09:23:40] <Rabid_Python> whats your processor again?
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• 938[09:23:55] <ratrace> Lope: iirc using options like "swap" in crypttab with /dev/urandom for key will signal systemd to mkswap that thing on boot. Unfortunate thing with swap on linux is that it needs to be pre-formatted
• 939[09:24:20] <Lope> Rabid_Python, I've set 8G swap, I can always lower it later and make the root fs bigger if I want to. It's a hyper threaded i5 ivy bridge 4G RAM, 128G SSD surface pro 2
• 940[09:24:32] <Rabid_Python> rattrace cant you create swap later on but on a different partition?
• 941[09:24:41] <Rabid_Python> I really can't remember.
• 942[09:24:42] <ratrace> Lope: there's hardly any point of having more swap that RAM :) when you put all of RAM in it, what else would go there?
• 943[09:24:42] <annadane> df WILL show if i set up a different partition for /var or /home though, yeah?
• 944[09:24:47] <ratrace> /than/
• 945[09:24:52] *** Joins: ayew (~ayew@replaced-ip)
• 946[09:24:53] <Lope> This install is my last attempt to see if I can get this surface pro 2 to do anything useful
• 947[09:24:57] <annadane> i wouldn't have just sda and sdb (sdb being my external drive)
• 948[09:25:06] <Rabid_Python> exeactly annadane
• 949[09:25:11] <Rabid_Python> exactly even
• 950[09:25:11] <ratrace> swap != auxiliar memory. swap is taking in RAM pages that are marked unused or evicted for other reasons
• 951[09:25:27] <Lope> ratrace, more programs memory?
• 952[09:25:31] <Rabid_Python> agreed ratract
• 953[09:25:38] <Rabid_Python> damn i cannot type tonight
• 954[09:25:40] <ratrace> Lope: no, it's not auxiliary RAM
• 955[09:25:43] <Rabid_Python> ratrace
• 956[09:25:44] <Lope> ratrace, unless I misunderstand how swap works in linux.
• 957[09:26:08] <Lope> ratrace, I thought that swap is treated as additional slow RAM in linux?
• 958[09:26:12] <ratrace> nope
• 959[09:26:19] <Lope> so if you have 4G RAM + 8G swap, you've got 12G of memory
• 960[09:26:28] <Lope> 4G fast and 8G slow
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• 962[09:27:04] <Lope> ratrace, swap HAS to be additional memory, because if it were not, then 4G RAM + 4G swap would make no sense
• 963[09:27:18] <Lope> Why move stuff out of RAM if you don't end up being able to use more memory?
• 964[09:27:21] <ratrace> Lope: no. doing that and putting yourself in the high overcommit situation will guarantee a deadlock if more than 4GB of RAM is needed and you already paged it all out.
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• 966[09:28:03] <Lope> ratrace, I realize I wont be able to run anything that's very active with the 12G of RAM in the 4G RAM + 8G Swap scenario.
• 967[09:28:11] <Lope> But I figured I'll be able to leave more shit open.
• 968[09:28:20] <Lope> For example a browser with 20 tabs open.
• 969[09:28:30] <Lope> The non active tabs could be put in swap
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• 972[09:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
• 973[09:29:35] <ratrace> if you need more RAM than you have and (almost) all RAM is already paged out, you can count on a deadlock, a swapstorm that will, indeed, in that case start hurting your SSD if that's happening continuously, and the computer will be unusable.
• 974[09:30:01] <ratrace> so yeah in theory you can expand beyond available RAM but in practice that's illadvisable
• 975[09:30:08] <ratrace> I mean.... just get more RAM :)
• 976[09:31:04] <ratrace> Rabid_Python: tab completion ftw ;)
• 977[09:31:15] <mase-tech> Hi I am looking for the debian buster SERVER image
• 978[09:31:29] <Rabid_Python> i sued to do that.. but i was bad about over scrolling to the wrong person.
• 979[09:31:32] <Rabid_Python> used.
• 980[09:31:34] <annadane> there aren't server images, you can just install what you need via the installer
• 981[09:31:42] <Rabid_Python> i'm just having trouble typing tonight for some reason.
• 982[09:31:53] <ratrace> happens
• 983[09:31:58] <Rabid_Python> and i feel nauseated so it's probably related.
• 984[09:31:59] <annadane> just don't install a graphical desktop and the packages you install like apache or whatever are 'server' packages
• 985[09:32:25] <Rabid_Python> yah,, no GUI servers.
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• 988[09:32:35] <Rabid_Python> those are for wusses. ;)
• 989[09:32:59] <ratrace> very rich wusses tho :)
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• 991[09:33:19] <Rabid_Python> true rat.
• 992[09:33:21] <ratrace> getting richer by the Azure hour
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• 994[09:33:34] <Rabid_Python> lol, nice pun.
• 995[09:33:48] <ratrace> :)
• 996[09:34:07] <Rabid_Python> yea, why bother knowing how to inimately configure your server when you can just point and click.
• 997[09:34:31] <Rabid_Python> I bet their wives hate it when their husbands point-n-click. ;)
• 998[09:34:38] <annadane> the only different debian ISOs are netinstall (if you have internet) and cd/dvd, with or without non-free firmware
• 999[09:34:46] <annadane> but no, no 'server images'
• 1000[09:35:10] <ayew> with netinstall, you get to choose stuff like if you want a DE
• 1001[09:35:23] <ratrace> and there's the xfce-carrying convenience ISO aimed at specific desktop installations.
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• 1004[09:36:20] <ratrace> but yea, nothing like, say, Ubuntu's difference between server and desktop ISOs. The difference there is in installers they carry, and preconfigured installation procedures.
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• 1010[09:38:17] <geo37> Anyone recommend any good linux support company I can pay? I've been at trying to setup VMs for 2 days now with no luck.
• 1011[09:38:18] <ratrace> meaning technically you can use the server ISO to get to a desktop.
• 1012[09:38:31] <Lope> ratrace, well, on a surface pro 2 you can't "just get more RAM" :p
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• 1015[09:38:51] <Lope> ratrace, I don't mind if the 128G SSD it comes with dies. Then I'll cut a hole in the back and install something bigger.
• 1016[09:39:02] <Lope> But this is just an experiment to see if this machine can do anything useful.
• 1017[09:39:04] <ratrace> heh
• 1018[09:39:06] <geo37> @ratrace maybe if you're really good at soldering you can :p
• 1019[09:39:19] <ratrace> geo37: you mean Lope
• 1020[09:39:22] <Lope> oh, I could download more RAM, forgot about that trick.
• 1021[09:39:42] <ratrace> lol?
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• 1023[09:39:54] <Lope> it's an old meme
• 1024[09:40:13] <mase-tech> it would be a good thing, to have a "debian-server"; "lite" image, because new people does not have that information ment above.
• 1025[09:40:15] <Lope> I know some people have successfully upgraded Linux SBC's to use bigger RAM chips etc.
• 1026[09:40:21] <CtrlC> A few days ago I updated my debian 9 to debian 10. now everything feels much slower. Firefox just took like 5 seconds to open a tab. Anyone had similar issues? All my four CPU cores are at less than 10% and I have 2 GB of ram free.
• 1027[09:40:37] <Lope> But even the guys with the skills, equipment to do it, and access to the bigger RAM chips, say it's not worth it.
• 1028[09:40:53] <Lope> geo37, So I'd never to it, personally.
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• 1032[09:42:13] <ayew> mase-tech: the thing is debian is already "lite" compared to ubuntu desktop
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• 1035[09:43:24] <mase-tech> ayew, that is irrelevant.
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• 1037[09:43:32] <mase-tech> and not what I said
• 1038[09:43:48] <ayew> the point is there is nothing to take out - there is no DE provided by default for example
• 1039[09:44:03] <mase-tech> I do not need DE
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• 1041[09:44:21] <mase-tech> wait what do you mean with DE
• 1042[09:44:24] <mase-tech> :D
• 1043[09:44:32] <mase-tech> Desktop
• 1044[09:44:34] <mase-tech> ok
• 1045[09:44:44] <Haohmaru> DEXTOP ;P~
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• 1047[09:47:24] <CtrlC> ok removing xserver-xorg-video-intel to see if it solves the issue
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• 1062[09:52:27] <CtrlC> seems like it have got much better.
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• 1064[09:53:25] <humpled> henry ford would not have understood debian
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• 1066[09:54:32] <ZaZaGX> why not?
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• 1074[10:00:02] <snooky> moin
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• 1076[10:01:35] <ZaZaGX> hi
• 1077[10:01:51] <ZaZaGX> are you snooky from jersey shore?
• 1078[10:01:56] <mase-tech> an example is raspbian. they offer a desktop version and a lite version. I like that. If you are new you don t have to look for hour until you find the information you needed.
• 1079[10:02:06] <mase-tech> that is effiecent
• 1080[10:03:49] <mase-tech> what is the netinstall doning ? does it download the missing 3.6gb from "complete installation" ?
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• 1082[10:04:44] <ayekat> mase-tech: netinstall means the image doesn't contain the packages itself, but downloads them from the internet when installing
• 1083[10:05:06] <ayekat> as opposed to the larger install medium, that installs the packages from the install medium
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• 1085[10:06:05] <ayekat> also, I feel like you completely ignored the part of "debian doesn't need a 'lite version', because the installer already allows you to trivially set up a minimal system"
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• 1087[10:06:13] <mase-tech> does that mean after installation process of netinstall and complete installion you have the smame ?
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• 1090[10:07:08] <mase-tech> ayekat, yes, you can call everything trivial, when you understand it
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• 1092[10:07:29] <mase-tech> it is what mathematishians do :D
• 1093[10:07:42] <ayekat> mase-tech: no, I mean it's really trivial for anyone - the installer provides you a menu where you select what you want to install
• 1094[10:07:59] <mase-tech> ok lets see
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• 1096[10:08:37] <ayekat> it's the part where it gives you multiple checkboxes that you can select, one of them being 'Desktop Environment', or 'Print server', or 'Basic system utilities'
• 1097[10:08:49] <ayekat> if you want a minimal system, just uncheck them all, and you're good
• 1098[10:09:17] <mase-tech> ok thats nice
• 1099[10:09:27] <mase-tech> but my point is
• 1100[10:09:42] <mase-tech> a new player to the debiangame
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• 1102[10:10:10] <mase-tech> and is looking for a debian server
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• 1104[10:10:45] <mase-tech> how does he know that there is option in the installer
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• 1106[10:12:08] <mase-tech> ayekat, I got a point ?
• 1107[10:12:11] <ayekat> I guess that's a valid point, yes
• 1108[10:12:40] <ayekat> then again, the majority of distros don't distinguish between "server" and "desktop", because there really is none
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• 1111[10:13:47] <ayekat> so I guess you already have to come to debian with the misconception that there is
• 1112[10:14:08] <ayekat> to get confused about a missing server installation image
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• 1115[10:15:18] <ayekat> (of course this probably applies to many users, due to the popularity of windows and ubuntu, which prominently distinguish the two types of installations)
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• 1120[10:17:08] <mase-tech> ayekat, so the answer is to ignore that misconception, because it is technically right what you do with debian.
• 1121[10:17:15] <mase-tech> I guess you are proffessional
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• 1125[10:17:36] <ayekat> no, but I think someone who wants to run a "server" should understand at least so much about servers
• 1126[10:17:45] <ayekat> but then again that's just my opinion
• 1127[10:18:11] <mase-tech> ayekat, what you think is wrong. And I am proof of it
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• 1129[10:18:46] <ayekat> mase-tech: you are free to run a server without properly understanding what you are doing, but I don't think that gives you the right to complain about it when you run into trouble
• 1130[10:18:47] <mase-tech> I think there is a big number of people looking for
• 1131[10:18:51] <mase-tech> a debian server
• 1132[10:18:59] <mase-tech> but I could also be wrong
• 1133[10:18:59] <ZaZaGX> i'm a regular user. i don't want to set up a server
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• 1135[10:19:27] <ZaZaGX> none of the regular people i know. don't even know how to install any operating system
• 1136[10:19:30] <annadane> i guess it's worth pointing out the debian installer does have a 'web server' tickbox
• 1137[10:19:34] <annadane> which just installs apache AFAIK
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• 1139[10:20:13] <annadane> print server is cups, web server is apache, ssh server is openssh
• 1140[10:20:23] <ayekat> mase-tech: the problem is that what you ask for doesn't scale - because debian can be used in 'zillions of different ways
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• 1142[10:20:45] <ayekat> there is no way to list all the different "if you want to do X, then do Y" options on the website
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• 1144[10:21:38] <ayekat> (because in the end you're essentially asking for a big fat note telling people "if you want to install a server, just use the regular installation image" on the website, no?)
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• 1147[10:22:36] <annadane> you may also be interested in
• 1148[10:22:38] <annadane> !preseed
• 1149[10:22:38] <dpkg> [preseed] Preseeding provides a way to set answers to questions asked during the Debian installation process, to allow for a streamlined or completely automated installation. The <install guide> provides an extensive appendix on preseeding with a full example. See replaced-url
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• 1154[10:25:11] <ayekat> the poor people who want to install Debian on a toaster and can't find debian-buster-toaster-amd64.iso
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• 1157[10:25:56] <ayekat> although, I guess most toasters probably need an arm image...
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• 1159[10:26:09] <annadane> just don't stick your arm in the toaster
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• 1166[10:29:14] <mase-tech> replaced-url
• 1167[10:29:23] <mase-tech> the result of the installation :D
• 1168[10:30:07] <geo37> Why is the debian installer messed up, why does it insist on creating a 275GB swap partition. Same result on 10 and 9
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• 1171[10:30:39] <ayekat> mase-tech: is it stuck there?
• 1172[10:30:45] <mase-tech> yes
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• 1174[10:30:52] <mase-tech> probaly my fault
• 1175[10:31:31] <ayekat> mase-tech: you can try to reboot with some kernel options to give out more information while booting
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• 1179[10:32:43] <ayekat> mase-tech: at the bootloader menu, you can press `e` to get an editor to edit the kernel options
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• 1181[10:34:02] <ayekat> and then on the line where it says `root=...`, remove the `quiet` option if there is one, or append `noquiet` if there isn't
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• 1183[10:34:21] <mase-tech> ok I try
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• 1188[10:35:30] <mase-tech> maybe there is something with grub
• 1189[10:35:53] <mase-tech> there is no bootloader menue
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• 1195[10:37:04] <mase-tech> grub is not appearing at all
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• 1197[10:37:50] <mase-tech> ayekat, hello :)
• 1198[10:38:12] <mase-tech> this installation could be rip :D
• 1199[10:38:48] <annadane> mase-tech, how did you write the image
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• 1204[10:39:30] <ayekat> sorry, was afk for a moment - if grub doesn't appear, that's a bit of an issue
• 1205[10:39:54] <annadane> if grub just doesn't show up or the grub-install step is skipped i could well see it being a corrupt image
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• 1207[10:40:43] <mase-tech> ok, lets make uit fast
• 1208[10:40:46] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1209[10:40:49] <mase-tech> I delete the image
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• 1211[10:41:05] <annadane> oh right this is in virtualbox
• 1212[10:41:21] <mase-tech> yes before I use it real
• 1213[10:41:25] <mase-tech> I need to test a bit
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• 1222[10:45:43] <mase-tech> annadane, is that a issue ? that I use it in vb ?
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• 1224[10:45:55] <annadane> uhh. i have no idea
• 1225[10:46:22] <annadane> i'd try validating your image first, replaced-url
• 1226[10:46:31] <annadane> if it still fails maybe it is a problem with virtualbox i guess
• 1227[10:47:16] <mase-tech> ok I try ubuntu server then, if it works I come back to debian
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• 1233[10:55:30] <mase-tech> Hmm, ubuntuserver is looking good and everything just worked fine
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• 1237[10:57:02] <mase-tech> ayekat, so I made something wrong in the debian server installation process
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• 1239[10:57:32] <ayekat> presumably
• 1240[10:57:45] <mase-tech> what we do my friend
• 1241[10:58:32] <ayekat> difficult to tell without any information - e.g. whether the bootloader was installed correctly
• 1242[10:59:00] <ayekat> once you get to a bootloader menu, debugging becomes quite a bit more convenient ^^
• 1243[10:59:22] <annadane> "verify the image" "ok, let me try ubuntu server"
• 1244[10:59:25] <annadane> ...........
• 1245[10:59:34] <annadane> okay fine then.
• 1246[11:00:12] *** Quits: Messenger_bird (~banana@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1247[11:00:45] <ayekat> ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
• 1248[11:00:47] <mase-tech> what about to make a debian-lite image for serverinstall
• 1249[11:00:50] *** Joins: epony (epony@replaced-ip)
• 1250[11:01:13] <annadane> i may just kill myself.
• 1251[11:01:20] <mase-tech> :(
• 1252[11:01:21] <ayekat> I thought we were done with that topic
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• 1258[11:02:57] <annadane> the net install, by the way, is something like 240 MB
• 1259[11:03:04] <annadane> and there's even smaller
• 1260[11:03:06] <mase-tech> more
• 1261[11:03:18] *** Quits: cef (~cef@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1262[11:03:23] <mase-tech> Irrelevant how big it is
• 1263[11:03:30] <mase-tech> it has to work
• 1264[11:03:33] <annadane> oh, it's 335 now
• 1265[11:03:39] <annadane> stretch was like 247 or something
• 1266[11:03:43] *** Joins: cef (~cef@replaced-ip)
• 1267[11:03:47] <mase-tech> I guess you are right
• 1268[11:04:08] <mase-tech> ok lets go back to verify image
• 1269[11:04:26] <mase-tech> shutdown -h 0
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• 1276[11:13:03] <annadane> if space IS the concern, if you're installing on something really small... it's good information to know
• 1277[11:13:54] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 1281[11:16:58] <annadane> of course it could just be an error with virtualbox. i don't know enough to really comment
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• 1288[11:20:45] <geo37> Why not use qemu? I've personaly had less issues with it than virtualbox
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• 1290[11:21:10] <nvz> yes, I just built most of my 10.1 Buster VMs so far.. and I have usage and package/file lists for Buster base and standard installs so far.. and they're larger too
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• 1292[11:21:57] <nvz> I was going to try virt-manager just to see but for the last decade or so VirtualBox as been the best all around VM solution for my use
• 1293[11:22:23] <annadane> i don't understand why virt-manager makes you enter a separate field for the name of the VM, it's so dumb
• 1294[11:22:58] <nvz> I somehow doubt while virt-manager probably makes things easier than they used to be, that it still compares with Vbox features
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• 1297[11:23:50] <annadane> i would use pure qemu but good luck figuring out the syntax
• 1298[11:24:02] <nvz> I like the different modes Window/Scaled/Seamless/Fullscreen, I like the Saved state, I like that it has its own build in RDP type stuff, I like that it has its own drivers for its hardware easily installable.. etc
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• 1301[11:25:33] <nvz> only reason I'd have for using virt-manager is that it'd be more Debian native.. and I'd probably lose all those features
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• 1303[11:25:55] <nvz> not to mention my VMs would probably not work on all platforms like VirtualBox VMs will
• 1304[11:26:29] <nvz> not a big issue for me personally as I only use Debian, but.. at least I know I can give my VMs to someone and they can use them no matter what their OS is
• 1305[11:27:02] <ZaZaGX> debian is too stable. i can't find any complains about it
• 1306[11:27:27] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1307[11:27:57] <annadane> pretty sure i've tried "automatically detect" and it doesn't go through anyway
• 1308[11:28:33] <ayekat> yeah, I don't think it matched anything correctly (or at all)
• 1309[11:28:42] <ayekat> *it ever matched
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• 1311[11:28:55] <annadane> for that to be a MANDATORY field is insane
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• 1313[11:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
• 1314[11:29:14] <annadane> wasn't the case in stretch :(
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• 1316[11:30:19] <nvz> yeah well vbox has three fields, name, type, version
• 1317[11:30:51] <nvz> which is mostly unnecessary info near as I can tell, it just does some hw auto-tuning
• 1318[11:30:53] <annadane> i tried gnome-boxes like once and it was like "...no thanks
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• 1320[11:31:10] <nvz> yeah I didn't even "try" it really.. I took one look at it and removed it
• 1321[11:31:48] <annadane> if i ever become proficient enough at knowing what arguments to pass, i'll use CLI qemu
• 1322[11:31:51] <mase-tech> ?qemu
• 1323[11:31:53] <nvz> the new GNOME stuff is just atrocious to me.. most the apps are all sparse UI, hamburger menus, very little tunables..
• 1324[11:31:54] <annadane> until such time... which will be never...
• 1325[11:32:03] <nvz> heh
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• 1327[11:32:19] <annadane> yeah, hamburger menus must die
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• 1329[11:32:30] <nvz> yeah I thought about learning the vbox cli more.. it'd be nice to automate creation of VMs a bit more
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• 1331[11:33:07] <annadane> virt-manager does come with virsh which is a way of managing VMs on a cli basis
• 1332[11:33:17] <annadane> it's not all gui
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• 1334[11:33:30] <nvz> virtualbox has lots of command line utilites
• 1335[11:33:46] <mase-tech> cli is the way to go
• 1336[11:33:54] <mase-tech> that is what I understood
• 1337[11:34:00] <nvz> only thing I've ever used em for is rebuilding the host drivers or setting up raw disks
• 1338[11:34:30] <annadane> basically the only gnome software i use is rhythmbox
• 1339[11:34:34] <nvz> I was a bit miffed by the fact virtualbox didnt do raw disks when I first started using it coming from VMWare workstation
• 1340[11:34:43] <nvz> but then I realized its doable, its just a bit of a hack
• 1341[11:34:52] <gjvc> 10:31 < nvz> the new GNOME stuff is just atrocious to me.. most the apps are all sparse UI, hamburger menus, very little tunables..
• 1342[11:34:55] <gjvc> agree
• 1343[11:35:03] <gjvc> good description "sparse UI"
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• 1345[11:35:35] <annadane> this from the same people who won't give you task bars or minimize buttons by default
• 1346[11:35:41] <annadane> coincidence? possibly
• 1347[11:35:54] <nvz> its sickening cause Gnome used to be a great environment, things were pushing boundaries of ease of configuration just by clicking
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• 1350[11:36:55] <nvz> now its all just undocumented unconfigurable ugly crap.. reminds me of those UI you see on those idiot box computers they market to senior citizens
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• 1352[11:36:57] <wepsanto> Hi, I'm having problems with debian installer on a apu-4c4 through serial console. It always throws "Undefined video mode number: 314" and it ignores input
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• 1356[11:37:13] <wepsanto> I'm using a usb to ttl converter
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• 1358[11:37:40] <wepsanto> 1a86:7523 QinHeng Electronics HL-340 USB-Serial adapter
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• 1360[11:38:08] <wepsanto> only RX and TX pins connected
• 1361[11:38:35] <wepsanto> Same problem on minicom and putty
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• 1363[11:38:53] <nvz> hmm.. it won't just work with a monitor?
• 1364[11:39:12] <nvz> I have a HP T520 thin client that has one of those G-Series SoC and it works beautifully
• 1365[11:39:27] <annadane> it would kind of be nice if debian went back to xfce as the default instead of gnome; gnome is *really confusing* if you're new to linux
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• 1367[11:39:45] <wepsanto> Hi nvz, the board doesn't have video output, just serial
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• 1369[11:40:31] <nvz> wepsanto: when I typed apu-4c4 into google this is what I saw replaced-url
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• 1372[11:41:03] <nvz> idk wtf an apu-4c4 is, so I can't really do much support on hw I have no idea what it is.. I just assumed it was what I see there on ebay
• 1373[11:41:10] <wepsanto> nvz: replaced-url
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• 1375[11:41:59] <nvz> ah, that seems like its geared toward network appliance
• 1376[11:42:00] <wepsanto> I'm trying it since it has 4 real gigabit controllers
• 1377[11:42:10] <wepsanto> nvz: yep
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• 1379[11:43:16] <wepsanto> I see some guides to install debian and other OSes on it, so it must be some error on my part
• 1380[11:43:54] <nvz> wepsanto: do you have a heatsink for it?
• 1381[11:44:30] <wepsanto> nope, naked board by now
• 1382[11:44:45] <wepsanto> installer on usb stick
• 1383[11:44:57] <ZaZaGX> how do i remove signing keyrings from my repo?
• 1384[11:44:59] <wepsanto> debian 10.1.0-amd64
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• 1386[11:45:51] <nvz> well thats one of two problems I see with it.. 1) no heatsink and that G-series SoC probably needs one.. and 2) no mounting point for the 3 pci express slots.. and not putting a video port on it was just ignorant.. the SoC has video I'm sure..
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• 1390[11:46:32] <humpled> "mathematishians"
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• 1396[11:47:30] <wepsanto> nvz: I must leave not. Will chew that later. Thanks.
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• 1404[11:48:36] <nvz> hmm no, thats one of the few that doesnt have a GPU on it
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• 1407[11:48:43] <humpled> i used one of those usb to serial cables to try out various machines including the pi
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• 1410[11:48:57] <humpled> it worked most of the time but settings were quite finicky
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• 1416[11:49:26] <mase-tech> humpled, didn't I made your day ?
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• 1427[11:51:56] <nvz> how the hell could you even use minipcie/msata without something to mount it to?
• 1428[11:52:14] <nvz> afaik they won't stay in the port unless you screw em down
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• 1431[11:53:17] <ZaZaGX> nvm, i founded it
• 1432[11:53:24] <ZaZaGX> apt-key list
• 1433[11:53:25] *** Joins: otyugh (~otyugh@replaced-ip)
• 1434[11:53:31] <ZaZaGX> and apt-key del PID
• 1435[11:53:49] *** Quits: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1436[11:53:54] <ZaZaGX> GUI didn't work ;(
• 1437[11:54:32] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 1438[11:55:34] <Haohmaru> foundededed it
• 1439[11:55:55] *** Parts: adc (~adc@replaced-ip) ("bye")
• 1440[11:56:33] *** Quits: jazz (~jazz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 1441[11:56:49] <ZaZaGX> founded what?
• 1442[11:57:28] *** Quits: otyugh (~otyugh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1443[11:57:57] <Haohmaru> find -> found, not "founded" ;P~
• 1444[11:58:19] <Haohmaru> * afaik
• 1445[11:58:30] <ZaZaGX> me no goo english
• 1446[11:58:32] *** Joins: han-solo (~han-solo@replaced-ip)
• 1447[11:58:47] <Haohmaru> me much gud engrish
• 1448[11:58:57] <Haohmaru> such fluent
• 1449[11:59:04] <ZaZaGX> whats gud?
• 1450[11:59:06] *** Quits: alexandros_c (~alexandro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 1451[11:59:26] <Haohmaru> the opposite of bad
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• 1456[12:00:27] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip)
• 1457[12:00:45] <ZaZaGX> whoa. i just found this. replaced-url
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• 1461[12:03:40] <at0m> ZaZaGX: yea, pretty nice article. has anyone left a comment on the dog in the default desktop background? :>
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• 1471[12:09:52] <geo37> anyone here know how to use network aliases?
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• 1476[12:11:44] <ZaZaGX> no comment for the dog
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• 1479[12:12:00] <kreyren> How can i kindly ask dpkg to kill itself
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• 1483[12:12:28] <ZaZaGX> killall dpkg
• 1484[12:12:34] <ayekat> geo37: "network aliases"?
• 1485[12:12:49] <kreyren> ZaZaGX, edit: kill itself and clean the dead body after
• 1486[12:12:52] *** Quits: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1487[12:12:56] <TTT> hi, I am trying to use citrix from XFCE, but lots of hotkeys are intercepted making my work difficult. I want to either disable most hotkeys for a particular window in XFCE. Or alternatively I might run a different X session on a different terminal, but then what window manager should I use that just maximizes the window and leaves hotkeys alone?
• 1488[12:12:59] <mase-tech> debian server is working
• 1489[12:13:02] <nvz> killall -15 dpkg
• 1490[12:13:17] *** Joins: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip)
• 1491[12:13:38] <TTT> any suggestions? I tried running without a WM at all, but then how do I maximize a window?
• 1492[12:13:56] <geo37> @ayekat ya, you can do like eth0:1 eth0:2 and give them separate ip addresses. It's completely broken on fedora, do you know if it will work on debian?
• 1493[12:14:03] <ZaZaGX> no dead body in software
• 1494[12:14:04] <at0m> TTT: i like fluxbox, that's rather lightweight
• 1495[12:14:23] <TTT> at0m, can I disable all hotkeys on fluxbox, and just have 1 maximized window?
• 1496[12:14:43] <at0m> TTT: and easy to configure. no hotkeys if none defined in ~/.fluxbox/keys
• 1497[12:14:44] <nvz> ZaZaGX: with dpkg there is
• 1498[12:14:52] <ayekat> geo37: I've never used them, so I can't tell :-/
• 1499[12:14:55] <ZaZaGX> how so?
• 1500[12:15:35] <nvz> ZaZaGX: it accesses a database and places a lockfile when doing so.. if killed abruptly say with a signal 11, that will be in an incosistent state
• 1501[12:15:48] *** Quits: daifuco (~Jay@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1502[12:15:54] <at0m> geo37: replaced-url
• 1503[12:16:00] <ZaZaGX> its a zombie?
• 1504[12:16:48] <Haohmaru> kreyren you whisper in his ear "u r useless"
• 1505[12:16:58] <nvz> not usually, the process may be dead, but the database may also be in an inconsistent state and the lockfile will not be cleaned up
• 1506[12:16:58] *** Quits: CtrlC (~CtrlC@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1507[12:17:16] * kreyren facepalm he wants to remove everything debian and keep coreutils+toolchain to get paludis on livedvd
• 1508[12:18:06] <ZaZaGX> you mean gentoo?
• 1509[12:18:25] <ratrace> kreyren's been trying to build a frankenlinux made of debian and gentoo parts iirc :)
• 1510[12:18:54] <nvz> dpkg doesnt do anything remotely like that.. those sorts of decisions are up to a higher level package manager
• 1511[12:18:54] <dpkg> nvz: that's too long
• 1512[12:19:08] <nvz> dpkg: stfu
• 1513[12:19:08] <dpkg> from memory, stfu is Shut The Fuck Up
• 1514[12:19:17] <kreyren> ratrace, i'm the god of frankenlinux and i want to overwrite dpkg to remove itself because it's refusing to perform suicide when i do `dpkg -r dpkg`
• 1515[12:19:51] <kreyren> or i guess i could rm everything excluding toolchain and coreutils O.o
• 1516[12:19:57] <ratrace> sometimes even gods are powerless
• 1517[12:20:07] <kreyren> pff
• 1518[12:20:10] <ratrace> kreyren: just note this is totally offtopic 'ere ;)
• 1519[12:20:19] <ZaZaGX> god is a human being? i thought god is a woman
• 1520[12:20:22] <kreyren> ratrace, how more debian can you get by asking dpkg question
• 1521[12:20:30] <kreyren> me w/e i figure it out >.>
• 1522[12:20:31] *** Quits: nexgen2 (~nexgen@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1523[12:21:21] <ZaZaGX> i just noticed on distrowatch.com ... debian is above ubuntu now
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• 1526[12:22:15] <ZaZaGX> i'm guessing it must be the lastest point release updates
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• 1528[12:23:48] <kreyren> bcs ubunters are freaking out about 32-bit deprecation afaik xD
• 1529[12:24:52] <ZaZaGX> i thought cannonical changed their mind
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• 1534[12:26:20] <ZaZaGX> replaced-url
• 1535[12:26:38] <geo37> Oh good!
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• 1537[12:26:49] <wrksx> Hi there
• 1538[12:27:00] <wepsanto> nvz: yes, no gpu. Must use serial console. Shouldn't debian installer detect it is a console output?
• 1539[12:27:00] <kreyren> > dpkg -r --force '*' < not working.. > dpkg -r -f dpkg < not working..
• 1540[12:27:01] <kreyren> pff
• 1541[12:27:26] <wepsanto> btw, I tried with a stretch installer too
• 1542[12:27:32] <kreyren> but it removed coreutils
• 1543[12:27:32] <kreyren> nice
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• 1545[12:28:07] <wrksx> I just installed debian subsystem on my windows 10 new setup, and I have a small issue with autocompletion with git.
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• 1547[12:29:03] <aypea[1]> apt-get purge win10 ;)
• 1548[12:29:09] <wrksx> lol
• 1549[12:29:44] <wrksx> I cannot type "git p<tab>" to autocomplete the git pull command, any idea what might be failing? I mean, is this supposed to work?
• 1550[12:30:10] <aypea[1]> is bash-completion installed?
• 1551[12:30:39] * kreyren successfully forced debian into LFS and then into paludis
• 1552[12:30:42] <nvz> wepsanto: idk I've never attempted such a thing
• 1553[12:30:51] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1554[12:31:48] <ZaZaGX> i thought windows 10 subsystem works better with ubuntu?
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• 1556[12:32:21] <wrksx> aypea[1], seems like it's not, let me install it and try again =)
• 1557[12:33:05] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1558[12:33:22] <aypea[1]> I, personally, hate it as it breaks some default completion behaviours I'm used to after over a decade of use.
• 1559[12:33:47] * aypea[1] mutters something about kids on his digilawn.
• 1560[12:33:47] <wrksx> ah really? like what?
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• 1563[12:34:24] <aypea[1]> I think it relates to dir/filename completion. I usually wind up going 'gah!' and then furiously disabling it
• 1564[12:34:36] <aypea[1]> so I don't quite remember the details :)
• 1565[12:34:42] <wrksx> okay, will keep this in mind
• 1566[12:34:51] <wrksx> just in case it happens to me
• 1567[12:35:03] <wrksx> and by the way, it's workin now, thanks for the help
• 1568[12:35:14] <aypea[1]> sweet. no worries and enjoy :)
• 1569[12:35:14] *** Quits: wrksx (53c44baf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1570[12:35:35] <ZaZaGX> what is a digilawn?
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• 1572[12:36:00] <aypea[1]> i lament those who've only experienced digipavement.
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• 1574[12:37:03] <ZaZaGX> not sure what that means
• 1575[12:37:10] <ZaZaGX> i tried to google it
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• 1602[12:47:43] <humpled> aye
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• 1611[12:55:53] <ratrace> Why does PHP still not work out of the box on debian? fastcgi_param is still, after all these years, missing the SCRIPT_FILENAME directive that's needed to define with $document_root
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• 1615[12:56:18] <ratrace> to make matters worse, seems like these newer versions of PHP do not any more report "File not found" but you get a white page of death.
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• 1619[12:57:21] <FinalX> PHP works just fine out of the box, but the webserver of your choice is apparently not delivered with a proper way of making PHP work with it out of the box, those are two different things.
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• 1623[12:57:36] <FinalX> As there's many ways of configuring PHP, and many different webservers to make it work with. PHP is rarely used standalone.
• 1624[12:57:45] *** Joins: xedniv (~xedniv@replaced-ip)
• 1625[12:57:59] <ratrace> FinalX: the webserver of my choice is the most used web server on the planet. And it's a matter of default fastcgi_params param
• 1626[12:58:04] <FinalX> If you get a white page of death, you should really go over the configuration yourself. It's always better to set it up properly.
• 1627[12:58:30] <FinalX> Oh, you mean nginx? Then set it up properly: replaced-url
• 1628[12:58:40] <ratrace> you don't say :) I also can't find in google, why/when did PHP drop the "file not found" output that it used to do, when it couldn't find the php script
• 1629[12:58:53] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 1630[12:58:53] <ratrace> FinalX: I have set it up properly. The question is of missing defaults
• 1631[12:58:56] <FinalX> It didn't, I still get those.
• 1632[12:59:09] <FinalX> Then use the nginx.org packages, mainline is the advised version anyway.
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• 1634[12:59:21] <ratrace> as you can see, the link is forcing the SCRIPT_FILENAME param. Every tutorial on the planet is including that in the location directive. it's a default missing form fastcgi_params tho
• 1635[12:59:29] <FinalX> replaced-url
• 1636[12:59:43] <geo37> Is there no way to adjust the partition size in the debian installer?
• 1637[13:00:00] <FinalX> Not "every tutorial on the planet", and 99 out of 100 tutorials are not that good when it comes to configuring PHP in nginx.
• 1638[13:00:26] <FinalX> Most are just "oh this works, let's do this".
• 1639[13:00:31] <ratrace> FinalX: you get "File not found" plaintext page? hmm... I can't get that and I don't know which setting might control it
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• 1642[13:02:26] <ratrace> geo37: what do you mean?
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• 1644[13:03:05] <ratrace> FinalX: and oh I mean, without setting SCRIPT_FILENAME directive. With it, I get file not found. But without it, it's blank page with nothing in error logs and it's been very frustrating figuring out that's what was missing.
• 1645[13:03:43] <geo37> I'm trying to install debian, the issue with the installer is it created a swap the size of your ram, so It's eating 256GB of my drive just for swap. I deleted the swap partition but now there is 256GB free space. I want to expand the root so it uses that space.
• 1646[13:04:05] <FinalX> ratrace: can't really have a proper SCRIPT_FILENAME default ass it's different for almost everyone, though the example config I gave could be used as a decent default. It's why I wrote it :) I got sick and tired of all the wrong and frankly insecure config examples.
• 1647[13:04:08] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
• 1648[13:04:10] <geo37> But I don't see a way to do that
• 1649[13:04:40] <ayekat> geo37: open a partition tool of your choice, and expand the root partition there
• 1650[13:04:53] <ratrace> FinalX: a sane default is $document_root$fastcgi_script_name; which allows /somename.php working when you set "root" to its parent dir. kinda typical setup
• 1651[13:04:56] <FinalX> plus if you're using newer PHP applications/CMS's you often only need to access /index.php and no other public .php-script, hence the specific example for that, too. Blocking access to any other (great for vulnerable wordpress plugins).
• 1652[13:04:59] <ayekat> (assuming the swap partition came right after the root partition - otherwise it's going to be a bit tricky)
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• 1654[13:05:13] <FinalX> ratrace: it should, but you do need to take the rest into account, too
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• 1656[13:05:28] <geo37> @ayekat Can I do that while installing? or do I do that after I install debian?
• 1657[13:05:37] <ratrace> FinalX: maybe i'm expecting too much of it :)
• 1658[13:05:41] <ayekat> geo37: are you still in the installation stage?
• 1659[13:05:46] <geo37> Yes
• 1660[13:05:48] <FinalX> and it's normal that PHP doesn't give 404 File Not Found if you're not passing a SCRIPT_FILENAME, as it's not giving you a 404 then but a 500 iirc
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• 1664[13:06:01] <FinalX> (not sure though)
• 1665[13:06:12] <ayekat> geo37: ah well, then... what's the issue, exactly? are you in the partitioning step?
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• 1668[13:06:39] <ratrace> FinalX: oh I know, I meant PHP's "File not found" plaintext. That used to be the case when it couldn't find the PHP file path given through fastcgi.
• 1669[13:06:48] <FinalX> ok
• 1670[13:07:25] <geo37> @ayekat Yes I'm in the partition step. The root partition is only 275GB of my 600GB drive
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• 1672[13:07:46] <geo37> @ayekat I want to expand the root to use alll the space
• 1673[13:07:52] <ayekat> geo37: so remove the root partition entry and create it such that it uses up all the space
• 1674[13:08:15] <ayekat> !@
• 1675[13:08:16] <dpkg> @ is used to separate the username from the hostname in an email address, to denote channel operators on IRC, and to direct comments to particular users in some web forums. It is NOT used to direct comments on IRC; use "name: ..." instead of "@name ...".
• 1676[13:09:40] <geo37> @ayekat why didn't I think of that lol. Thank you!
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• 1684[13:16:21] <vindarel> Hello Debian channel. I want to create my first Debian package (\o/) and I'm now stuck with "dpkg-genbuildinfo: .buildinfo is meaningless". Can you throw ideas ? I posted details here: replaced-url
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• 1687[13:18:28] <shtrb> I'm with debian buster and being hit with replaced-url
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• 1689[13:19:54] <FinalX> I don't use eKDE but maybee you can make a systemd unit override file and put it in there if KDM is auto started when the system starts
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• 1691[13:19:58] <FinalX> idk :)
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• 1696[13:21:13] <shtrb> thanks, that is actually a good idea, but as it is an environment variable wouldn't be only set for systemd only ?
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• 1698[13:23:10] <SimonB> Debian stretch box. Using tgt to present a 3Tb array via iSCSI. transfer rate via iSCSI is painfully slow. I've benchmarked the disk read/write at 250Mbps (slow disks), transfering files to said server via SFTP I get about 70Mbps. tgt.. I'm getting 10Mbps at best.
• 1699[13:23:26] <FinalX> most likely :/ there was another file you could use specifically for X in your homedir, but I forgot. .profile is loaded by the shell, not X.. so hm
• 1700[13:23:57] <shtrb> For the backlog I'm spammed with " kscreen.xcb.helper: #011Output: XX,kscreen.xcb.helper: #011Property: Backlight, kscreen.xcb.helper: #011State (newValue, Deleted): 0" in syslog. which I belive a duplicate of replaced-url
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• 1743[13:53:57] <hruske> hi all, I'm just wondering, does one have to bump the package version if it's rebuilt for a different debian release or is this a limitation that comes with reprepro?
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• 1752[13:57:55] <choice> When you install debian 10.1 on a server and then do "apt update && apt upgrade" daily - will you always stay on Debian 10.1 or will it go up to 10.2 etc?
• 1753[13:59:40] <thexa4> yes
• 1754[13:59:46] <thexa4> it won't remove any packages though
• 1755[13:59:47] <hruske> debian 10.2 is debian 10.1 with security updates rolled in
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• 1757[14:00:02] <hruske> debian 10 and debian 11 are different releases
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• 1761[14:01:10] <choice> I see. So when you set up your environment in a docker image, it makes sense to use "debian:10" so it will automatically pull the latest whenever you rebuild?
• 1762[14:01:25] <ratrace> security and some bug fixes, sometimes new versions for some strategic packages
• 1763[14:01:50] <thexa4> generally as long as you stay on 10 it should stay compatible
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• 1766[14:02:47] <thexa4> the switch from 10 to 11 is slightly more risky so I wouldn't use latest
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• 1768[14:05:12] <choice> I think "debian:10" means "latest debian 10". It will not switch to debian 11.
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• 1770[14:08:04] <thexa4> that sounds likely :)
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• 1825[14:40:23] <Haohmaru> is there a way to clear the previous thing that was written in a terminal so that it can't be found by pressing up?
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• 1830[14:42:56] <humpled> use leading space before you type it
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• 1832[14:43:09] <Haohmaru> hm?
• 1833[14:43:16] <n_1-c_k> Haohmaru, if you're in bash, '> ~/.bash_history' will clear all your cmd history.
• 1834[14:43:33] <Haohmaru> yeah but i don't want to clear everything
• 1835[14:43:38] <Haohmaru> just the last thing
• 1836[14:44:04] <humpled> close the terminal, open a new one, edit ~/.bash_history, close that terminal
• 1837[14:44:15] <Haohmaru> ahumz
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• 1877[15:15:46] <wepsanto> Haohmaru: You can kill -9 your term
• 1878[15:16:04] <wepsanto> that way, your shell (bash) cannot save to .bash_history
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• 1880[15:17:15] <wepsanto> For example, for a xterm, You can automate it with something like `XTERM_PID=$(ps -o ppid= $PPID); kill -9 $PPID; kill -9 $XTERM_PID`
• 1881[15:17:23] <wepsanto> (not debian related though)
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• 1883[15:18:52] <wepsanto> if You want to rewrite your history before exiting, something like this would work: `l=$(wc -l .bash_history | cut -d ' ' -f 1) ; head -$((--l)) .bash_history > /tmp/hist-1; cat /tmp/hist-1 > ~/.bash_history`
• 1884[15:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1583
• 1885[15:19:07] <wepsanto> that would delete the last line
• 1886[15:19:19] <wepsanto> (quick and very dirty way)
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• 1888[15:20:27] <humpled> but is it even written before you close the terminal?
• 1889[15:20:50] <colo-work> check `history --help`
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• 1891[15:20:59] <colo-work> it can do quite a lot of stuff by itself
• 1892[15:21:00] <xanthal> eh, much more simple: history -c ; history -w ; exit
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• 1894[15:21:17] <xanthal> but it really doesnt do the job 100%
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• 1901[15:22:40] <wepsanto> humpled: not with a SIGKILL
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• 1910[15:25:42] <humpled> that's after you kill it
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• 1914[15:26:16] <wepsanto> if you kill it, it does nothing more
• 1915[15:26:26] <wepsanto> no history is written
• 1916[15:26:39] <wepsanto> since you open that bash process
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• 1921[15:28:37] <wepsanto> colo-work: +1 (-d is quite useful for this use case)
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• 1934[15:38:33] <Freneticks> how to log to root with the env of user ? I'm not used to buster changes yet.
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• 1936[15:38:44] <Haohmaru> colo-work oh, so like.. history -d -1 ?
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• 1939[15:40:04] <ayekat> Freneticks: if you log in as root, you'll inevitably have to change some environment variables - what environment variables in particular do you want to keep?
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• 1947[15:45:00] <Freneticks> ayekat: oh it's su -l because if I su root in buster all PATH like /sbin/iptables is broken
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• 1949[15:46:03] <Freneticks> that's new in stretch everything was working
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• 1951[15:46:52] <ayekat> so you don't actually want to keep environment variables, but have them be set correctly (e.g. sbin paths added to $PATH)
• 1952[15:47:05] <Freneticks> ayekat: exactly
• 1953[15:47:14] <jhutchins_wk> Freneticks: Actually, that's a reversion to the original su spec.
• 1954[15:47:20] <ayekat> and yeah, it now requires you to launch a login shell (i.e. `su -`, `su -l` or `sudo -i`)
• 1955[15:47:34] <jhutchins_wk> Freneticks: The man page has a pretty good explanation.
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• 1957[15:47:49] <jhutchins_wk> Freneticks: You can also use just "su -"
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• 1961[15:50:26] <faceyneck1> Greetings, Debian community
• 1962[15:51:01] <faceyneck1> I figured I'd run this one down in IM form. I wanna see if anyone else has had this before. I couldn't find anything on the forums to applied to me
• 1963[15:51:47] <faceyneck1> My Think T540p (I know, the trackpad is shit) has a trackpad that just stopped working. Even after updating to 10
• 1964[15:52:18] <faceyneck1> I was just gonna do a nuke and pave, but I wanna know what the actual issue is.
• 1965[15:52:24] <jhutchins_wk> faceyneck1: It failed on stretch before the upgrade?
• 1966[15:52:40] *** Joins: jstolarek (~killy@replaced-ip)
• 1967[15:52:52] <faceyneck1> Yeah, for sure, <jhutchins_wk>
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• 1969[15:53:19] <jhutchins_wk> faceyneck1: Were there upgrades within stretch that triggered the fail?
• 1970[15:53:20] <faceyneck1> This is an issue that's been going on for maybe a month
• 1971[15:53:31] <faceyneck1> I upgraded to 10 later I suppose than mose.
• 1972[15:53:34] <faceyneck1> *most
• 1973[15:53:41] <faceyneck1> Nah
• 1974[15:53:47] <faceyneck1> Nothing wrong with the upgrades
• 1975[15:53:47] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip)
• 1976[15:54:10] <faceyneck1> I did completely empty my sources.list, and copied over a safe one from the Debian websitre
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• 1983[15:57:17] <jhutchins_wk> faceyneck1: There are usually several package updates each week. Some are trivia, some are kernel updates. If you can track what updated before the trackpad failed, that might let you know where to look for a fix.
• 1984[15:57:22] <jhutchins_wk> !trackpad
• 1985[15:57:22] <dpkg> As of stretch, the synaptics driver isn't used by GNOME. If your touchpad stopped working in stretch, try installing xserver-xorg-input-libinput and removing xserver-xorg-input-synaptics; see replaced-url
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• 1989[15:59:50] <zodd> On a Debian Stretch server I just did an apt-get update/upgrade which caused mariadb server to get into trouble: aptitude claims: No filename for mariadb-server-10.1
• 1990[16:00:37] *** Joins: beencubed (~beencubed@replaced-ip)
• 1991[16:01:44] <zodd> regardless what I do using apt-get / apt /aptitude I cannot get mariadb-server in a proper state as mariadb-server cannot be installed/configured as maraidb-server-10.1 is not yet configured. mariadb-server-10.1 does not configure as it ends with an exit 1 error
• 1992[16:01:49] <aypea[1]> damn. xfce 4.14 hit bullseye.... do I go fondle it or not...
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• 1997[16:04:58] <Freneticks> jhutchins_wk: so this mean su without - or -l doesn't read .bashrc ?
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• 1999[16:05:14] <zodd> No idea why it exits with 1. Only issue I can think of is limited diskspace. only 1% free, but no other packages complain
• 2000[16:05:27] <zodd> any pointers appreciated
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• 2005[16:05:56] <Akuw> the /etc/ntp.conf has the ntp server right?
• 2006[16:06:06] <aypea[1]> zodd: checked logs?
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• 2012[16:09:24] <zodd> aypea[1], yep, nothing really shocking. It complains about not able to init the tc log
• 2013[16:09:29] <zodd> no idea what that is
• 2014[16:10:06] <aypea[1]> zodd: meh. poor error handling is teh suck. how much space is actually left (1% means nothing) and what does df -i report?
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• 2017[16:11:13] <zodd> inodes 28% used, so that is cool. atm 312mb left on disk
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• 2019[16:11:50] <aypea[1]> can you pastebin the exact log msgs?
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• 2025[16:13:51] <zodd> hmm. tc error fixed. But APT itself is troublesome: E: Internal Error, No file name for mariadb-server:amd64
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• 2030[16:14:32] <zodd> nothing APT related works anymore!
• 2031[16:14:43] <zodd> wtf
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• 2036[16:15:54] <aypea[1]> does apt-get install lastrites work? :)
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• 2039[16:17:47] <aypea[1]> damn it. the sheer cruelty of xfce 4.14 not being released in time for buster :/
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• 2042[16:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1591
• 2043[16:19:04] <zodd> hmm. Lucky me. dpkg -i installing from /var/cache/apt/packages has probably saved me
• 2044[16:19:47] <aypea[1]> does dmesg report anything odd?
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• 2047[16:22:22] <zodd> aypea[1], no it did not. But now the whole vps became unresponsive
• 2048[16:22:30] <zodd> trying a reboot
• 2049[16:22:38] <aypea[1]> good luck.
• 2050[16:22:57] <aypea[1]> odd that there are no meaningful error messages
• 2051[16:23:06] <aypea[1]> though the apt error you showed is rather suss
• 2052[16:23:09] *** Joins: whislock (~whislock@replaced-ip)
• 2053[16:23:18] <zodd> yes. quite weird. Have never seen something like that before
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• 2057[16:25:09] <yogg> Hi
• 2058[16:25:26] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2059[16:25:33] <aypea[1]> if it's a vps, is the host under your control?
• 2060[16:25:59] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip)
• 2061[16:26:02] <yogg> Can I set the default include path for nftables (nft --includepath) in an *.nft file?
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• 2070[16:31:29] <zodd> oh. Interesting: no my mailboxes seem to all contain 0 mail :-(
• 2071[16:31:34] <zodd> *now
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• 2075[16:33:11] <colo-work> can anybody tell me what's happening here between apt-get and dpkg? replaced-url
• 2076[16:33:18] <colo-work> ("deinstall" packages cannot be purged)
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• 2079[16:34:45] <zodd> colo-work, you are aware that Jessie is ¨a bit¨ old?
• 2080[16:35:00] <colo-work> I am. I am preparing an upgrade to stretch.
• 2081[16:35:09] <colo-work> (and to buster after that)
• 2082[16:35:15] <colo-work> it's a legacy host with a bright future :>
• 2083[16:35:19] <colo-work> and not going away
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• 2087[16:35:53] <aypea[1]> zodd: it could be that the vhost storage is going kaput
• 2088[16:36:05] <aypea[1]> colo-work: take the extra step and go buster :)
• 2089[16:36:21] <colo-work> aypea[1], I will, but it's got to be one step after the other.
• 2090[16:36:22] <ihateAdmins> Hello, after a total power off and pc restart all my services become unavailable until i restart the network-manager or ping my router. BUT i can ping the server from my client...
• 2091[16:36:38] <zodd> aypea[1], apache is not very responsive from a remote location etc. : aka I have homework to do
• 2092[16:36:42] <aypea[1]> colo-work: fair. it's the way I do it.
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• 2097[16:37:50] <ihateAdmins> I can do a reboot or halt -p and the services will start with boot and be available, but if there is a blackout and restart the services will not be available on boot
• 2098[16:37:58] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 2099[16:39:02] <ihateAdmins> Debian 4.9.189-3 DE Mate
• 2100[16:39:06] *** Joins: ooAoo (~username@replaced-ip)
• 2101[16:39:21] <lf94> 4.9...
• 2102[16:39:55] <greycat> I'm sure that's the kernel version, not the Debian version.
• 2103[16:39:59] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip)
• 2104[16:40:13] <ihateAdmins> Debian GNU/Linux 9.11 (stretch)
• 2105[16:40:16] <ihateAdmins> ye it is
• 2106[16:40:19] *** Quits: yogg (d4f146ca@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2107[16:40:53] <greycat> ihateAdmins: after a power loss, a normal boot *should* start all the services. If one of them isn't starting, you should look for errors in its log file(s).
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• 2111[16:41:14] <ihateAdmins> no all of the services are unavailable ssh vsftpd or apache2
• 2112[16:41:25] <disposable2> ihateAdmins: is it a cisco switch that you're connected to?
• 2113[16:41:27] <ihateAdmins> until i ping from the server to my router or restart the network-manager
• 2114[16:41:45] <ihateAdmins> normal pc
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• 2117[16:42:33] <ihateAdmins> i already disabled ipv6 and set the wifi connection to manual static config
• 2118[16:42:40] <ihateAdmins> it did not fix it
• 2119[16:43:02] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2120[16:43:55] <disposable2> ihateAdmins: changing your pc's network config won't speed up the boot up time of your switch/router/access point
• 2121[16:44:30] *** Quits: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
• 2122[16:44:42] <ihateAdmins> the problem is not the access point. The server/pc does get a ip on init and i can ping it from my pc
• 2123[16:44:50] <ihateAdmins> but i can not access the services
• 2124[16:45:04] <zodd> check systlog/dmesg/messages
• 2125[16:45:11] <zodd> *syslog
• 2126[16:45:13] <ihateAdmins> i did there is nothing helpful there
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• 2130[16:45:50] <zodd> ihateAdmins, systemctl status
• 2131[16:45:54] <ihateAdmins> i did
• 2132[16:46:08] <ihateAdmins> systemctl status ssh ; dmesg , cat /var/log/syslog
• 2133[16:46:16] <ihateAdmins> i don't have a error anywhere
• 2134[16:46:30] *** Joins: jpp_ (~jpp@replaced-ip)
• 2135[16:46:41] <zodd> I guess then it leaves the all evil NM
• 2136[16:46:52] *** Quits: lubko (~lkundrak@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2137[16:47:01] <ihateAdmins> well i could reinstall it, but will that really help
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• 2141[16:47:24] <aypea[1]> is there nothing in the logs from it that is of worth?
• 2142[16:47:35] *** Quits: AlpacaFace (~AlpacaFac@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2143[16:47:35] <aypea[1]> check when it gets an ip
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• 2150[16:48:15] <aypea[1]> and does your mac address remain the same across power losses?
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• 2152[16:48:41] <ihateAdmins> yes the mac remains the same and the bssid is the same, it is in a static config in network-manager
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• 2155[16:48:49] <zodd> huh? MAC is hardcoded in a NIC
• 2156[16:48:57] <aypea[1]> wireless can fake it
• 2157[16:49:06] *** Joins: AlpacaFace (~AlpacaFac@replaced-ip)
• 2158[16:49:11] <zodd> yes, everything can be faked
• 2159[16:49:12] <greycat> some ethernet NICs can also spoof/change MAC
• 2160[16:49:12] <aypea[1]> it's actually an option in NM
• 2161[16:49:34] <greycat> you *shouldn't*, but it's possible... so anyway, the question was about your IP address, not your MAC
• 2162[16:49:45] <aypea[1]> and by default it scans with a fake mac. only establishes connections with a real mac (though this is confiurable)
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• 2164[16:50:31] <ihateAdmins> i doubble checked it, it is using my permanent mac
• 2165[16:50:36] <aypea[1]> just thinking it might've been mac addr related as an external ping seemed to unclog it.
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• 2168[16:51:00] <aypea[1]> ihateadmins: what do the logs indicate wrt it getting an ip address?
• 2169[16:51:08] <ihateAdmins> well a ping from the server to somewhere else does unclog it, but receiving a ping doesn't
• 2170[16:51:31] <ihateAdmins> sry what do you mean with indicate?
• 2171[16:51:54] <aypea[1]> well when does it get an actual ip? is it during the boot or is it later?
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• 2174[16:52:10] <ihateAdmins> it does get a ip on boot, that's how i can ping it in the login screen
• 2175[16:52:38] <AlpacaFace> Hi. How do I control the system chime settings please? Tried 'xset bell on' and checked, that is on. No beep or chime though. Ideally I would like to set a custom chime for irssi in guake terminal. Not sure where to start. I definitely do not want that annoying console beep when backspacing too far and such. Help please?
• 2176[16:52:57] <ihateAdmins> the services do start on boot as well, but if the blackout happens the problem appears and the connection for services is somehow clogged
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• 2178[16:54:19] <aypea[1]> ihateAdmins: this is sooo smelling mac-addr related. I'd do ip link list, record the macs, pull the power, start it and check the macs
• 2179[16:54:39] <aypea[1]> ihateAdmins: the first ping out would teach the gw the new mac
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• 2182[16:54:46] <aypea[1]> "new"
• 2183[16:55:26] <ihateAdmins> ok i will do that rn
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• 2211[17:07:50] <Akuw> what is peers in NTP context
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• 2215[17:08:46] <nvz> same thing it is in any network context
• 2216[17:09:03] <nvz> the time needs to be verified by multiple different peers to be considered accurate
• 2217[17:10:23] <ihateAdmins> That's so annoying if you want to reproduce the problem, it simply won't appear
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• 2219[17:10:51] <ihateAdmins> i guess i will have to msg tomorrow again about this
• 2220[17:11:26] <ihateAdmins> the problem occured when i powered it on after ~14hours
• 2221[17:12:10] *** Joins: b00^ (~void@replaced-ip)
• 2222[17:12:15] <aypea[1]> does it happen when you turn it off nicely and leave it off for ~14hrs?
• 2223[17:12:17] <Akuw> nvz: please, any documentation and samples about NTP?
• 2224[17:12:38] <ihateAdmins> yes it did
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• 2226[17:12:59] <aypea[1]> and you can't see it from the outside world until you ping out from it?
• 2227[17:13:10] <nvz> Akuw: are you actually having an issue? most documentation about it is obsolete now, the system has systemd
• 2228[17:13:28] <ihateAdmins> i also edit the config on the router, so the pc will have a static ip from now on assigned there as well
• 2229[17:13:59] <Akuw> well, i have to check nodes using ntp server
• 2230[17:14:03] <ihateAdmins> no it is not about the outside world^^ I didn't do port forwarding yet, because it is unreliable, it is about my lan and it is ALWAYS pingable
• 2231[17:14:06] <Akuw> that nodes use debian 8
• 2232[17:14:17] <Akuw> but time in that nodes is critical
• 2233[17:14:30] <ihateAdmins> but the services are unfortunately not
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• 2236[17:15:46] <ihateAdmins> Akuw what are you trying to do? Check out ntpd (ntpd -q -g) if you want to synchronize your pc time
• 2237[17:16:00] <andre144k> hello all.. im using rsync from local folder to NFS-Share. now im saw, i could use instead of NFS-Share rsync-daemon also... so - is there any good reason to switch from NFS-Share to rsync-daemon ?
• 2238[17:16:02] <aypea[1]> very odd. it is after 1am so i'm going to have to bail. sorry i couldn't be of much help.
• 2239[17:16:22] <andre144k> i have no big issues with performance via NFS
• 2240[17:16:27] <Akuw> i just need to know the NTP server
• 2241[17:16:30] <ihateAdmins> ye that's really odd :{ thanks for the help tho
• 2242[17:16:35] <Akuw> and need to know everything about NTP
• 2243[17:16:40] <ihateAdmins> google^^
• 2244[17:17:05] <ihateAdmins> there is a lot of ntp servers that you can use just google them
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• 2246[17:17:22] <ihateAdmins> for the tool i would suggest ntpd
• 2247[17:17:44] <greycat> Debian uses a standard pool of volunteer NTP servers by default.
• 2248[17:18:15] <ihateAdmins> yes it is not needed on debian by default
• 2249[17:18:32] <greycat> If you do nothing, Debian uses systemd-timesyncd. If you install ntp, systemd-timesyncd will not run, and ntp will run instead.
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• 2251[17:18:43] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2252[17:19:37] <greycat> You can see at the end of "systemctl cat systemd-timesyncd" the 4 files that will prevent systemd-timesyncd from starting up.
• 2253[17:19:49] <Akuw> ntpq -c peers what do ?
• 2254[17:21:06] <jelly> andre144k: using native rsync avoids transfer of whole files when only a tiny piece has changed, it transfers only changes. if you have large files with small changes, this can speed up the process significantly
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• 2258[17:22:19] <jelly> andre144k: when rsync has local file paths as source and destination (and nfs shares mounted locally are local paths), it always copies the whole file if there's a change
• 2259[17:22:26] <BCMM_> jelly: is that right? i thought rsync moved whole files, but didn't move files without changes.
• 2260[17:22:45] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2261[17:23:16] <BCMM_> oh, it does do deltas. sorry.
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• 2267[17:24:25] <Greyztar> cant one also specify no-whole-file or so to make delta on local storage?
• 2268[17:24:34] <jelly> no. Try it.
• 2269[17:24:35] *** Joins: lightx (~lightx@replaced-ip)
• 2270[17:25:08] <jelly> you can workaround by, say, copying to localhost: over ssh
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• 2276[17:26:11] <Greyztar> interesting thought that was the meaning for that option though thanks for info
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• 2281[17:27:56] <ihateAdmins> How do you enable other pages in debian other than the login screen?(ctrl+alt+F2) I think you had to enable it in the grub settings... rn on the other pages it is stuck on /dev/sdx: clean ...
• 2282[17:28:00] *** Quits: Spiffy (~Spiffy@replaced-ip) (Quit: BRB)
• 2283[17:28:28] <greycat> if it's still fsck'ing, you can't login yet
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• 2287[17:28:59] <ihateAdmins> i can login, i mean other tabs The login is on ctrl+alt+f7
• 2288[17:29:49] <greycat> If you have a GUI login on tty7, then there are probably regular gettys (text logins) on tty1 through tty6. That's the default, anyway.
• 2289[17:29:49] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2290[17:30:24] <ihateAdmins> yes but the regular text logins are stuck
• 2291[17:30:29] *** Quits: lll3N1GmAlll__ (~lll3N1GmA@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2292[17:30:57] <greycat> Hit enter. Hit ctrl-Q, then Enter. Or explain what you mean by "stuck". Exactly what do you see?
• 2293[17:31:09] <greycat> If the last thing you see is fsck output, not "login:" then something weird is afoot.
• 2294[17:31:12] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2295[17:31:32] <jelly> Greyztar: sorry, I misunderstood. I haven't tried --no-whole-file when both src and dest are local. Perhaps it works.
• 2296[17:32:23] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2297[17:32:42] <Greyztar> jelly no worries thought i used it once when i tested what arguments to use in script i think it also depends on version as might not be availible in all ? (,")
• 2298[17:32:45] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2299[17:33:08] <ihateAdmins> [11.741668] hid-generic 0003:1XXX:XXXX.XXXX: usb_submit_urb(ctrl) failed: -1/dev/sdb5: clean, 250478/6537216 files, 7493544/26125312 blocksand at the end a blinking "_"
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• 2304[17:33:53] <jelly> ihateAdmins: and if you press enter once?
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• 2307[17:34:11] <ihateAdmins> doesn't do anything neither does ctrl+q
• 2308[17:34:17] <ihateAdmins> or ctrl+c
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• 2312[17:37:52] <Akuw> i was looking for ntp.conf but what other place can be ntp server configured
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• 2315[17:38:21] <Akuw> because they are using in /etc/hosts 10.3.5.12 ntp
• 2316[17:38:44] <Akuw> in ntp.conf is 127.127.0.1
• 2317[17:38:51] <jelly> Akuw: which ntp service are you using?
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• 2321[17:39:27] <jelly> (or: which ntp service is running, and which package does that binary belong to)
• 2322[17:39:32] *** Joins: Burek (~Burek@replaced-ip)
• 2323[17:39:33] <Akuw> is a 127.127.0.1
• 2324[17:39:42] <Akuw> in ntp.conf
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• 2327[17:40:29] <jelly> Akuw: that's an ip address from a config file. Is ntpd from ntp package, that uses /etc/ntp.conf as config file, actually running right now?
• 2328[17:40:42] *** Joins: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip)
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• 2330[17:41:16] <Akuw> Jelly: ps show ntp
• 2331[17:41:39] <Akuw> how can i know what are they using?
• 2332[17:41:57] <jelly> Akuw: show the output of ps -fe |grep ntp
• 2333[17:43:25] <Akuw> ntp 1551 1 0 Mar29 ? 00:04:38 /usr/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.pid -g -u 108:113
• 2334[17:44:01] <ihateAdmins> is running a fsck going to help me on that problem?
• 2335[17:45:26] *** Quits: thelastjedi_ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2336[17:46:32] <jelly> Akuw: so you have /usr/sbin/ntpd running, not just "ntp". Which package does that file belong to?
• 2337[17:46:52] <andre144k> jelly, thx for explaining ... in most cases i get new files instead of changes.
• 2338[17:47:16] <greycat> jelly: (the package name is actually...)
• 2339[17:47:43] <jelly> we're getting to that!
• 2340[17:47:52] <jelly> teach a man to fish and all that
• 2341[17:48:26] <Akuw> ii ntp 1:4.2.6.p5+dfsg-7+de amd64
• 2342[17:48:40] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip) (Quit: [IRSSI])
• 2343[17:48:51] <greycat> yeah, it's just a potential source of confusion to say "you're not running ntp" when the package name and the systemd service name are that
• 2344[17:48:58] <jelly> Akuw: so the package name is ntp. Then you look at the package contents with "dpkg -L ntp" and figure out that it really uses the config file /etc/ntp.conf
• 2345[17:49:35] <hejux> why ntp?
• 2346[17:49:43] <jelly> greycat: yeah. But ps does not show the service.
• 2347[17:49:46] *** Joins: czart (~czart@replaced-ip)
• 2348[17:49:50] <hejux> systemd-timesyncd rocks
• 2349[17:50:01] *** Joins: kunningd (~kunningdr@replaced-ip)
• 2350[17:50:08] *** Joins: xanthal (~xanthal@replaced-ip)
• 2351[17:50:13] <greycat> systemd-timesyncd rocks, but ntp remains steady
• 2352[17:50:20] *** Joins: sorko999 (~sorko999@replaced-ip)
• 2353[17:50:35] <Akuw> jelly: wait
• 2354[17:51:14] <jelly> Akuw: "ntpq -p" will tell you which peers ntpd running on this system uses. Also look at the config file, lines starting with "server" and "pool"
• 2355[17:51:27] *** Quits: ml| (~ml|@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2356[17:52:05] <Akuw> ntpq -p show 200.89.75.198
• 2357[17:52:08] *** Joins: wokasaur (wokasaur@replaced-ip)
• 2358[17:52:30] <Akuw> but somebody here says that ntp server is 10.somehting
• 2359[17:52:31] <jelly> that's not all it shows.
• 2360[17:52:45] <xanthal> oh :)
• 2361[17:53:09] *** Quits: xanthal (~xanthal@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2362[17:53:10] <Akuw> so i search in /etc/hosts and there is 10.something ntp
• 2363[17:53:22] <jelly> Akuw: line starting with * will show currently chosen source. lines starting with + are other good servers to switch to.
• 2364[17:54:03] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip)
• 2365[17:54:10] <Akuw> but why in hosts is a line with --> 10.33.203.99 ntp
• 2366[17:54:26] *** Joins: xanthal (~xanthal@replaced-ip)
• 2367[17:54:52] *** Joins: inky (~noch@replaced-ip)
• 2368[17:54:58] <inky> hey people
• 2369[17:55:01] <jelly> Akuw: someone put it there so that hosts "ntp" and "ntp.yourdomain.example.org" can be resolved. It does not mean it will get used for any purpose.
• 2370[17:55:12] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip)
• 2371[17:55:25] <inky> i have debian nfs server, nis which exports auto.remote, etc.
• 2372[17:55:29] <Akuw> but the person who knows the system told me that
• 2373[17:55:39] <inky> centos6 client connects to nis, mounts homes via autofs
• 2374[17:55:45] *** Quits: ghaoil (~ghaoil@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2375[17:55:50] <inky> users can create files in the remote directories
• 2376[17:55:53] <inky> permissions are ok
• 2377[17:56:02] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 2378[17:56:08] <jelly> Akuw: the name might _suggest_ a purpose, but if your ntp service isn't actually configured to used that, it won't get magically used.
• 2379[17:56:10] <inky> the problem is, gui for user who has home on nfs partition doesn't start.
• 2380[17:56:23] <jelly> Akuw: it's just another entry in /etc/hosts, nothing more
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• 2384[17:56:45] <inky> i have messages like this: GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See
• 2385[17:56:58] <inky> in .xsession-errors
• 2386[17:56:59] <inky> and also
• 2387[17:57:01] <jelly> Akuw: maybe you're _supposed_ to use it, and there was a misunderstanding. That's just a guess.
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• 2390[17:57:34] <Akuw> is there another place where i can check?
• 2391[17:57:51] <jelly> check what?
• 2392[17:58:25] <Akuw> what is the main NTP server
• 2393[17:58:30] <jelly> ntpq -p tells you realtime current state of what ntpd is using.
• 2394[17:58:52] <inky> (gnome-panel:4131): GVFS-RemoteVolumeMonitor-WARNING **: invoking IsSupported() failed for remote volume monitor with dbus name org.gtk.Private.GduVolumeMonitor: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply.
• 2395[17:58:59] <inky> so graphical sessions don't start.
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• 2399[17:59:15] <inky> i think it's a nfs issue
• 2400[17:59:28] <greycat> The most important thing to know about ntpq -p, which is VERY hard to find in the documentation, is that the "offset" column is in milliseconds, not seconds.
• 2401[17:59:37] <jelly> Akuw: that, and /etc/ntp.conf for config, is it. There's no other place for this particular ntp implementation.
• 2402[17:59:38] <inky> when a user has local home, gnome starts for him.
• 2403[17:59:47] *** Quits: mortderire (mortderire@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2404[18:00:39] <xanthal> oh ntpd worked
• 2405[18:00:42] <xanthal> thanks
• 2406[18:00:47] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2407[18:01:16] <greycat> inky: if it automounts correctly from the command line (e.g. ls ~thatuser), then I'd heed the warning about enabling TCP/IP for ORBit or whatever it was.
• 2408[18:01:24] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2409[18:01:25] <Akuw> i need to understand that
• 2410[18:01:45] *** Joins: daifuco (~Jay@replaced-ip)
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• 2415[18:02:03] *** Joins: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip)
• 2416[18:02:04] <Akuw> in ntp.conf is 127.127.0.1 but ntpq show 200.89.75.198
• 2417[18:02:06] <inky> greycat: heed?
• 2418[18:02:14] *** Joins: synthmeat (~synthmeat@replaced-ip)
• 2419[18:02:14] <greycat> listen to, pay attention to, respect
• 2420[18:02:41] <ihateAdmins> so i removed the quiet from grub and the last thing the text login tty1-6 is hanging on is ACPI Warning about conflicts with OpRegion and (\GPI0)
• 2421[18:03:08] <inky> greycat: kde doesn't start to. it does not use orbit, right?
• 2422[18:03:26] <inky> i think whether that's dbus related, or the problem is nfs options.
• 2423[18:03:28] <greycat> ihateAdmins: that is not "login hanging". That is a message from some random systemd service. Did you hit Enter a few times on that tty to see if you get another login prompt?
• 2424[18:03:54] <jelly> Akuw: look at ALL the lines starting with "server " and "pool "
• 2425[18:03:56] <greycat> inky: pick one, diagnose it, see if it's related to buster's decision to disable networking in half the crap systemd does...
• 2426[18:04:15] <ihateAdmins> greycat yes i did, i did try ctrl+q and ctrl+c and escape as well
• 2427[18:05:16] *** Quits: hitest (~hitest@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2428[18:05:44] <jelly> Akuw: there should be more than just that one with 127.127.1.0 you found
• 2429[18:05:49] *** Joins: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip)
• 2430[18:05:54] <inky> greycat: the clients are centos..
• 2431[18:05:55] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2432[18:06:07] <greycat> then we can't help you with them
• 2433[18:06:26] *** Joins: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip)
• 2434[18:07:23] <inky> greycat: also that might be about nfs options.
• 2435[18:07:30] <inky> and i don't know if i need set locks to none, or to all.
• 2436[18:07:32] <Akuw> no
• 2437[18:08:11] <jelly> Akuw: that's weird then. can you pastebin the full output of "grep -v ^# /etc/ntp.conf" and "ntpq -p"
• 2438[18:09:21] *** Joins: amadann (~amadann@replaced-ip)
• 2439[18:09:46] <jelly> ,i ntpsec
• 2440[18:09:47] <judd> Package ntpsec (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Network Time Protocol daemon and utility programs. Version: 1.1.3+dfsg1-2; Size: 282.8k; Installed: 766k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2441[18:09:57] <jelly> yay, another one!
• 2442[18:10:11] <jelly> ,whatprovides time-daemon
• 2443[18:10:14] <judd> Package time-daemon in buster/amd64 is provided by: chrony, ntpsec, openntpd.
• 2444[18:10:40] *** Parts: AlpacaFace (~AlpacaFac@replaced-ip) ()
• 2445[18:10:50] <jelly> ,provides ntp
• 2446[18:10:51] <judd> Package ntp in buster/amd64 provides no additional packages.
• 2447[18:10:59] <ihateAdmins> greycat any ideas?
• 2448[18:11:05] <Akuw> jelly: wait please i am solving another thing
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• 2452[18:13:25] <jhutchins_wk> Akuw: If you're going to make use of our time to help you, you really ought to be available to respond.
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• 2455[18:15:02] <Akuw> jelly: just the ip 127.127.1.0
• 2456[18:15:15] <Akuw> upsss
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• 2458[18:15:43] <wepsanto> nvz: Just for the record, the problem was in my hardware/wiring. I got it with a USB to RS232 (instead of TTL) and a crossover cable. Now it shows a nice text-based installer :-) Thanks for your time and suggestions.
• 2459[18:16:03] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2460[18:16:05] <Akuw> there is one line server ntp
• 2461[18:16:12] <Akuw> server ntp
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• 2463[18:16:22] <Akuw> that is the reson
• 2464[18:16:32] <Akuw> so, first is server ntp
• 2465[18:16:41] <Akuw> laetr is server 127.127.0.1
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• 2468[18:16:55] <Akuw> with that order what server use first?
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• 2471[18:17:21] <Akuw> line is server ntp burst iburst prefer
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• 2479[18:18:28] <jelly> Akuw: it will be easier to figure out and explain what is happening if you show actual, complete output and config, instead of telling us only some parts of it.
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• 2481[18:19:00] <Akuw> jelly: you help me anyway
• 2482[18:19:02] <Akuw> thanks
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• 2487[18:20:38] <jelly> Akuw: sometimes volunteers choose to stop helping when people are hiding relevant info
• 2488[18:20:38] *** Joins: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip)
• 2489[18:21:02] <jelly> because that can be frustrating
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• 2491[18:21:41] <humpled> i just assume that user is more interested in having a chat than solving their issue
• 2492[18:21:41] <Akuw> yes
• 2493[18:21:50] *** Quits: kunningd (~kunningdr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2494[18:21:56] <ihateAdmins> i have enabled getty@tty1.service and it is running, but the login prompt still won't appear after all kind of keystrokes
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• 2512[18:25:58] <ihateAdmins> does debian not support multiple ttys? Any help is appreciated
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• 2517[18:26:30] <greycat> By default, you get 6 gettys on tty1 through tty6. Yes, it is supported.
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• 2522[18:27:05] <ihateAdmins> so how could i activate tty1 and get a login prompt
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• 2526[18:29:03] <greycat> Are there any useful messages in "journalctl -u getty@tty1" (or @tty2, etc.)
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• 2531[18:29:40] <ihateAdmins> nothing, it just says that it is started
• 2532[18:29:49] <ihateAdmins> the service is active/running as well
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• 2540[18:35:53] <ihateAdmins> it would be really helpful to troubleshoot other problems if i could login in tty1-6
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• 2542[18:36:57] <Delf> ihateAdmins: Are you able to login remotely (SSH)?
• 2543[18:37:06] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2544[18:37:11] <jelly> ihateAdmins: debian supports it, it works by default, we get that it does not work for you on this system. There's little use in reiterating how things would be great if this issue was solved.
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• 2546[18:37:18] *** Quits: danwellby (~danwellby@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2547[18:37:27] <jelly> you literally came in here to get it solved.
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• 2550[18:38:12] <ihateAdmins> Delf yes and login gui works as well
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• 2557[18:40:58] <ihateAdmins> jelly of course, so do all. I did research and tried multiple things nothing helped me so far. i am still looking for any hints and suggestion. If you want me to provide any info i will do that
• 2558[18:40:59] <Delf> ihateAdmins: How does /etc/systemd/logind.conf look?
• 2559[18:41:20] <jelly> ihateAdmins: what does "systemctl status getty-static.service getty.target" say?
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• 2565[18:42:48] <ihateAdmins> replaced-url
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• 2569[18:43:59] <ihateAdmins> i will start the services
• 2570[18:44:08] <jelly> that looks normal
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• 2573[18:45:20] <ihateAdmins> isn't this a problem? dbus and logind are not available inactive (dead)
• 2574[18:45:32] <jelly> that, in fact, is a problem
• 2575[18:45:32] <jelly> #UserTasksMax=33%
• 2576[18:45:36] <jelly> oops
• 2577[18:45:49] *** Quits: crowley95 (~crowley95@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye bye ✋)
• 2578[18:46:26] <jelly> ihateAdmins: lots of things will have issues if dbus is dead. Is there anything in ps -fe |grep dbus-daemon ?
• 2579[18:46:28] *** Joins: crowley95 (~crowley95@replaced-ip)
• 2580[18:46:59] <ihateAdmins> message+ 519 1 0 18:18 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --nopidfile --systemd-activationlightdm 1069 1057 0 18:19 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session --address=systemd: --nofork --nopidfile --systemd-activationlightdm 1071 1064 0 18:19 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon
• 2581[18:47:00] <ihateAdmins> --config-file=/usr/share/defaults/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork --print-address 3root 1193 1107 0 18:46 pts/0 00:00:00 grep dbus-daemon
• 2582[18:47:03] <ihateAdmins> oops
• 2583[18:47:18] <ihateAdmins> replaced-url
• 2584[18:47:26] <jelly> so the system dbus running under "messagebus" user seems to be running
• 2585[18:47:38] *** Quits: xaeB5 (xaeB5@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2586[18:48:03] <jelly> ihateAdmins: does "systemctl status dbus" shows the service as dead or what?
• 2587[18:48:16] <ihateAdmins> no that is running/active
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• 2591[18:49:22] <jelly> ihateAdmins: and "systemctl status systemd-logind" ?
• 2592[18:49:29] <greycat> what did you see that made you say "12:45 ihateAdmins> isn't this a problem? dbus and logind are not available inactive (dead)"
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• 2595[18:50:43] <jelly> that seem to be two separate parts of "getty-static.service status" output
• 2596[18:50:56] <ihateAdmins> "getty-static.service Active: inactive (dead) start condition failed" this sounds like a problem that i have to cover idk
• 2597[18:51:07] <greycat> No, it's normal, as jelly said.
• 2598[18:51:16] <ihateAdmins> systemctl status systemd-logind is active/running
• 2599[18:51:20] <jelly> ihateAdmins: that's not a problem if both dbus and systemd-logind are running
• 2600[18:51:21] <greycat> It DIDN'T start getty-static BECAUSE dbus is running.
• 2601[18:51:29] <AlexNagyServer> Hey greycat. o/
• 2602[18:51:31] <jelly> like the description says
• 2603[18:51:33] <ihateAdmins> ye because he was asking^^ that was what i thought
• 2604[18:52:11] <greycat> well, actually it only checked that the dbus.service unit file exists, not that it's actually running, but still.
• 2605[18:52:13] <jelly> it looks just like there here on my stretch workstation. And gettys work.
• 2606[18:52:31] <jelly> just like that*
• 2607[18:52:43] <earend1> hi.. how can i disable all login ways but ssh
• 2608[18:52:52] <ihateAdmins> disable lightdm
• 2609[18:52:53] <greycat> swap bodies with ihateAdmins
• 2610[18:52:58] <ihateAdmins> lmao true
• 2611[18:53:02] <earend1> lol
• 2612[18:53:03] *** Quits: daifuco (~Jay@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2613[18:54:10] <jelly> sorry, I don't know how logind works to be able to debug if there's anything wrong with it.
• 2614[18:54:15] <earend1> actually i thought i could disable all but local.. but there is no such a thing.. and i dont understand all that buses consoles etc.. so maybe just allowing ssh or so would be easier
• 2615[18:54:25] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2616[18:55:18] <ihateAdmins> it's alright as long as ssh keeps up running and not randomly stops the service connectivity.. thanks for the help
• 2617[18:55:24] *** Quits: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2618[18:55:35] <jelly> man 8 systemd-logind says it's responsible for > Automatic spawning of text logins (gettys) on virtual console activation and user runtime directory management
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• 2623[18:55:56] <ihateAdmins> earend1 what exactly are you trying to do? disable logging in through login screen gui or on all ttys?
• 2624[18:56:05] <earend1> i looked at the /etc/securetty file.. but from what i got it's some fallback not used at all
• 2625[18:56:09] <jelly> ihateAdmins: it might be interesting to see what would happen if you restarted it. On the other hand it might make things worse.
• 2626[18:56:49] <jelly> ihateAdmins: as in GUI gdm/sddm login stopping to work, or (less likely) remote ssh login stopping to work
• 2627[18:56:55] *** Joins: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip)
• 2628[18:56:56] <ihateAdmins> jelly what service do you want me to restart? It will probably not affect the tty7 gui login screen and if so ssh is still running and i can reboot
• 2629[18:57:04] <jelly> ihateAdmins: systemd-logind
• 2630[18:57:04] <earend1> ihateAdmins: ithink i want that. actually i iwant only to be able to login via ssh. i cant tell for the consoles or if i need some binding to a socket or.. i dunno
• 2631[18:57:32] <greycat> only being able to login by ssh sounds like a nightmare to me, but it's your computer...
• 2632[18:57:36] *** Quits: Nevolution (~nevo@replaced-ip) (Quit: cya~)
• 2633[18:58:33] <ihateAdmins> earend1just disable all services that do login except ssh, if ssh is working flawlessly just try around until you found the right ones, if something goes wrong you still have the recovery mode
• 2634[18:58:39] <greycat> earend1: you should remove any display manager packages (lightdm, sddm, gdm3, etc.) but you probably already did. Then there's an NAutoVT setting in /etc/systemd/logind.conf that might work, or might break everything, who knows.
• 2635[18:58:55] <earend1> greycat: hm.. as for when running in qemu ssh only seems to have the benefit of not needing to type passwo\rds all time
• 2636[18:58:57] <greycat> NAutoVTs actually
• 2637[18:59:03] *** Quits: digilink (~digilink@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 2638[18:59:15] <greycat> earend1: ... ... ... ... IT'S A VIRTUAL SYSTEM !?
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• 2641[18:59:31] <jelly> ihateAdmins: which debian release is this anyway?
• 2642[18:59:31] <earend1> greycat: ah yes. thanks btw. i made it work with just installing xorg and openbox.
• 2643[18:59:37] *** Joins: Zardoz (~Zardoz@replaced-ip)
• 2644[18:59:54] <earend1> greycat: virtual in what sense? it runs in a vm
• 2645[18:59:57] <ihateAdmins> it is up to date Debian GNU/Linux 9.11 (stretch) x86_64
• 2646[19:00:06] *** Joins: Nevolution (~nevo@replaced-ip)
• 2647[19:00:07] <ihateAdmins> also i have restarted the service, didn't do anything
• 2648[19:00:16] <earend1> wait u type too fast .. rereading
• 2649[19:00:29] <greycat> earend1: Well, that changes everything. It's no longer a nightmare. Carry on.
• 2650[19:00:31] <jelly> it wouldn't have been a permanent solution anyway
• 2651[19:01:02] <jelly> virtual machines have consoles too! Don't discriminate poor VMs
• 2652[19:01:30] <greycat> But it's much less of a nightmare if you can't login to your VM's "console" than when you can't login to your physical machine's console.
• 2653[19:01:48] <jelly> it's pretty much the same for me :-\
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• 2656[19:02:56] <jelly> (most of my physical machines have decent remote mgt)
• 2657[19:03:57] <jelly> ihateAdmins: are there any getty processes running right now btw? ps -fe |grep getty
• 2658[19:04:18] <ihateAdmins> root 1094 1 0 18:19 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty1 linux
• 2659[19:04:22] <earend1> i will check that setting. and readup on how to setup ssh properly actually. also.. i couldn't install buster properly on the physical machine.. but it seemed to work nicely with qemu and omvl or how that efi bios is called. i guess there's some malware onboard.
• 2660[19:04:53] <jelly> ihateAdmins: is... by any chance, your /run mountpoint with its tmpfs filesystem filled up?
• 2661[19:05:19] <ihateAdmins> nope 2% used
• 2662[19:05:52] *** Joins: thexa4 (~thexa4@replaced-ip)
• 2663[19:06:17] <jelly> ihateAdmins: what does "lsof -np 1094" say (run as root) ?
• 2664[19:06:50] <ihateAdmins> replaced-url
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• 2666[19:07:01] *** Quits: Greyztar (~irc@replaced-ip) (Quit: "")
• 2667[19:07:06] <jelly> just like here
• 2668[19:09:56] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2669[19:10:09] <jelly> ihateAdmins: can you run "strace -f -o/tmp/getty1.strace -p 1094 &" over ssh as root, then "chvt 1; sleep 10; chvt 7" over ssh to switch to VT1, press enter a couple times at the console while it's there, and fg and kill strace (^C should be enough) afterwards, and pastebin the output file?
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• 2672[19:10:46] <jelly> perhaps the input devices are not connected to virtual consoles at all for some reason, and strace won't notice anything
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• 2674[19:11:37] <jelly> don't know how to fix that if it's true, but it's step forward
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• 2678[19:13:05] <ihateAdmins> so i shouldn't type strace in ssh, but in the console right?
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• 2680[19:14:53] <jelly> ihateAdmins: do it over ssh
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• 2683[19:15:59] <jelly> if "chvt 1" does not switch to text console that would also be an interesting clue
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• 2685[19:16:24] <ihateAdmins> strange in ssh i got Operation not permitted
• 2686[19:16:31] <ihateAdmins> i will do it in the local console again
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• 2688[19:17:28] <jelly> chvt also needs to be run as root. I'm assuming you have a root shell open
• 2689[19:17:54] <jelly> if not "su -" or "sudo -i" will open an interactive root shell
• 2690[19:18:04] <ihateAdmins> im running root
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• 2695[19:20:03] <ihateAdmins> i did type this chvt 1; sleep 10; chvt 7 and then it switched to the tty1, but before i could do anything like 5seconds it switched back to tty7
• 2696[19:20:11] <jelly> huh
• 2697[19:20:11] <ihateAdmins> my bad
• 2698[19:20:15] <ihateAdmins> i increse the sleep
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• 2701[19:21:58] <ihateAdmins> ok i just did it now and it didn't do anything when i pressed the keys and the getty1.strace is empty
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• 2703[19:22:24] <jelly> shouldn't be completely empty
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• 2706[19:23:08] <ihateAdmins> it is completely empty. im retrying it now
• 2707[19:23:12] <jelly> ihateAdmins: over ssh, run just: strace -ff -p 1094
• 2708[19:23:13] *** Quits: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2709[19:23:31] <jelly> ihateAdmins: and then manually Ctrl-Alt-F1, press enter a couple times. and go back to Ctrl-Alt-F7
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• 2713[19:24:45] <jelly> does strace say at least something like: strace: Process 2348 attached
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• 2715[19:25:05] <jelly> and maybe a single line like
• 2716[19:25:06] <jelly> _newselect(5, [0 4], NULL, NULL, NULL
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• 2718[19:25:21] <ihateAdmins> the process is now 2581 i am repeating the steps sorry takes a few mins
• 2719[19:25:28] <jelly> np
• 2720[19:25:37] <jelly> uh, the process died?
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• 2722[19:26:22] <ihateAdmins> i guess so, it wasn't able to attach anymore so i did the grep again
• 2723[19:26:35] <ihateAdmins> strace: Process 2581 attachedselect(5, [0 4], NULL, NULL, NULL
• 2724[19:27:27] <greycat> if getty is dying, I'd expect something to be logged in journalctl -u getty@tty1 or whatever
• 2725[19:28:11] <ihateAdmins> ok it worked now i got a lot of stuff
• 2726[19:28:51] <jelly> Ctrl-C and try to pastebin as much of the stuff
• 2727[19:29:20] <ihateAdmins> replaced-url
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• 2731[19:29:41] <ihateAdmins> i did try enter then ctrl+c then ctrl+q and escape
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• 2733[19:30:13] <jelly> line 4 is you pressing enter, and agetty reading it from file descriptor 0
• 2734[19:30:26] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2735[19:30:48] <jelly> lines 10-47 is agetty writing the login prompt.
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• 2737[19:31:00] <jelly> the question is why is that not seen on the screen
• 2738[19:31:55] <jelly> so input and output is working, it's just everything is invisible
• 2739[19:32:40] <jelly> <ihateAdmins> [11.741668] hid-generic 0003:1XXX:XXXX.XXXX: usb_submit_urb(ctrl) failed: -1/dev/sdb5: clean, 250478/6537216 files, 7493544/26125312 blocksand at the end a blinking "_"
• 2740[19:32:59] <jelly> ihateAdmins: where was this output visible, on Ctrl-Alt-F1 ?
• 2741[19:33:01] *** Joins: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip)
• 2742[19:33:08] <ihateAdmins> yes
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• 2745[19:33:30] <ihateAdmins> that is my awus036nha, but it works alright
• 2746[19:33:59] <jelly> ihateAdmins: okay... and is there still a blinking cursor when you switch to Ctrl-Alf-F1 ?
• 2747[19:34:06] <ihateAdmins> ye
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• 2749[19:34:24] <jelly> ihateAdmins: are you by any chance using nvidia closed driver?
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• 2751[19:35:00] <ihateAdmins> yes i thought that could be a problem.. but how would that affect the login prompts?
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• 2755[19:35:49] <jelly> AHA. Sometimes that driver kills the console after a couple hours-days, text mode still works, cursor is there, but nothing else happens.
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• 2757[19:36:01] <jelly> ihateAdmins: it's an old issue.
• 2758[19:36:29] <ihateAdmins> i installed them in order to use pyrit and the nouveau driver already gave me a lot of trouble with all kinds of things like vga+edid or resolutions
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• 2763[19:36:50] <ihateAdmins> is there a fix for that then^^
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• 2765[19:37:04] <jelly> when I had a nvidia at home, between having stable GUI working, and text console, I used to choose GUI working. The machine would crash with nouveau after 2-3 days.
• 2766[19:37:14] <jelly> ihateAdmins: not that I know of.
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• 2771[19:38:27] <ihateAdmins> alright then case closed i guess :D thanks for all the help i learned a few things about troubleshooting and will look into strace
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• 2775[19:39:19] <jelly> strace is great when you have no other way of debugging what a process does
• 2776[19:40:39] <jelly> maybe new versions of nvidia driver will have a graphical framebuffer console? There are some drm things in place.
• 2777[19:40:50] <jelly> but maybe not yet. replaced-url
• 2778[19:41:04] <jelly> > Note: The proprietary NVIDIA driver (since 364.12) also implements kernel mode-setting, but it does not use the built-in kernel implementation and it lacks an fbdev driver for the high-resolution console.
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• 2781[19:43:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 2782[19:43:30] <jelly> you can still log in and type things blindly if that helps
• 2783[19:43:35] <jelly> :-D
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• 2792[19:46:54] <ihateAdmins> wow that would be great, i'll try that out rn
• 2793[19:47:06] <greycat> what could possibly go wrong?
• 2794[19:47:41] <ihateAdmins> rm -rf / 😂
• 2795[19:47:54] <jackal> hello, in /etc/apt/sources.list i have only 2 entries deb and deb-src pointing to deb.debian.org. when run apt-get update it seems to be polling other sources as well, how can i find out where it gets them?
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• 2797[19:48:02] <Habbie> ihateAdmins, i don't know about this channel, but in other support channels, even as a joke, that is not appreciated
• 2798[19:48:13] <Habbie> ihateAdmins, because any newbie that just came along and asked a question might think this is a viable answer to their problem
• 2799[19:48:15] <greycat> it's definitely frowned upon
• 2800[19:48:43] <greycat> jackal: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list
• 2801[19:48:52] *** Quits: jrvlima (~jrvlima@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2802[19:48:57] <hop> and *.source
• 2803[19:49:02] <ihateAdmins> sry was the only joke that came up in my mind, so ye anyone who sees that never c&p without reading manpage
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• 2805[19:50:48] <jackal> greycat, thanks!
• 2806[19:51:01] <jackal> hop, what you mean?
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• 2808[19:51:19] <hop> jackal: what do i mean what?
• 2809[19:51:43] <jackal> hop, assumed you referred to me <hop> and *.source
• 2810[19:51:43] <greycat> files named *.source in addition to *.list, I believe
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• 2812[19:51:52] <hop> apart from the type, it's pretty clean. should be *.sources, though
• 2813[19:51:54] <greycat> although I've never seen those
• 2814[19:52:02] <jackal> because i dont have those
• 2815[19:52:05] <Habbie> new to me too
• 2816[19:52:06] <hop> greycat: multiline key/value format
• 2817[19:52:08] <Habbie> man apt-get doesn't mention it eithe
• 2818[19:52:10] <Habbie> r
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• 2820[19:52:29] <jackal> ok, anyway. i also have an empty sources.list~
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• 2822[19:52:44] <greycat> that's just some editor's leftovers
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• 2824[19:52:59] <jackal> ok
• 2825[19:53:04] <jackal> again, thanks!
• 2826[19:53:14] <hop> jackal: the tilde traditionally denotes backup files
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• 2828[19:54:38] <hop> greycat, Habbie sources.list(5), look for DEB822-STYLE FORMAT
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• 2841[19:58:45] <ihateAdmins> jelly it is indeed running 😂
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• 2968[21:07:58] <brutser> i am trying to fix a hook script for initramfs (replaced-url
• 2969[21:07:58] <brutser> is about and is that the default place to store any keyfiles?
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• 2984[21:17:00] <inky> greycat: so the problem was that nis client was starting after dbus.
• 2985[21:17:08] <inky> and therefore dbus wasn't giving authorization to nis clients
• 2986[21:17:12] <inky> somehow figured that out.
• 2987[21:18:09] <kardborren> I have a headless Debian Stretch running a website on a vps. I'd like to use rsvg-convert (from package librsvg2-bin) on that server, but installing librsvg2-bin pulls in a LOT of other packages. Is there a way to avoid pulling in all that and just get the bare minimum that's needed?
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• 2990[21:18:35] <kardborren> (It even pulls in X)
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• 2995[21:22:38] <nvz> wepsanto: yes well you need cooling.. my Gseries just uses the case mostly as a heatspreader but it has a passive heatsink down one side with a heatpipe
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• 2999[21:24:00] <nvz> wepsanto: seems the site you posted sells a metal case and they just put paste between the case and chip and use the case as a heatspreader which may be sufficient idk.. I'd prefer a bit more than that even.. without adequate cooling modern chips will throttle back and it will shorten theri lifespan as well as affect ther performance
• 3000[21:24:32] <nvz> wepsanto: those chips don't really need fans/liquid coolers, but they should have /something/
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• 3003[21:25:28] <hop> kardborren: not X, just the client libs… you lie down with gui tools, you wake up with dependency hangover
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• 3006[21:26:18] <hop> kardborren: but even so, it shouldn't be so bad. only about 12 times the amount of security upgrades ;)
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• 3009[21:27:19] <wr> what debian firmware use for a marvell yukon 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller? this pci card gives wifi
• 3010[21:27:19] *** Joins: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip)
• 3011[21:27:35] <kardborren> hop: But converting a svg to pdf on the command line isn't really a gui tool, I would think?
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• 3013[21:29:06] <hop> kardborren: come again? "Description: command-line and graphical viewers for SVG files[...]"
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• 3016[21:30:27] <kardborren> hop: Well, that is true. There is a svg viewer in that package also. I didn't consider that, as I don't use or need it. So where does that leave me?
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• 3019[21:30:46] <hop> kardborren: might be you could compile rsvg-convert with less dependencies manually
• 3020[21:30:56] <kardborren> hop: Should I try to compile rsvg-convert myself (ugh) to avoid all the dependencies?
• 3021[21:31:36] *** Quits: Namarrgon (~glei@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
• 3022[21:32:15] <jmcnaught> kardborren: did you try "apt-get --no-install-recommends …"?
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• 3025[21:32:46] <hop> jmcnaught: there are no recommends
• 3026[21:32:59] <kardborren> jmcnaught: I did. It lowered from 96M to 95M, so a fart in space, basically.
• 3027[21:33:19] <hop> kardborren: i have such a machine, single partition, never took care to avoid those deps… still uses under 6GB
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• 3030[21:33:24] <jmcnaught> kardborren: if it's just some libraries it's probably not worth the time trying to avoid them.
• 3031[21:33:29] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 3032[21:33:46] <hop> kardborren: it hurts, but it is what it is
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• 3034[21:34:27] <kardborren> Am I being overly paranoid here? I'm thinking I want to keep my internet-facing website server as prestine as possible, both for the beauty of cleanliness and to minimize any attack surface...
• 3035[21:34:39] <hop> kardborren: the list of dynamic libs linked to rsvg-convert is some 50 entries long
• 3036[21:34:45] <kardborren> hop: Yep
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• 3039[21:35:01] <hop> kardborren: well, yea, "Yep"…
• 3040[21:35:04] <kardborren> hop: Which seems like a lot to me. :)
• 3041[21:35:09] <hop> kardborren: find another tool?
• 3042[21:35:29] <hop> i feel you, but cake, eat, have…
• 3043[21:35:29] <kardborren> I tried cairosvg but it didn't produce as nice result. :/
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• 3045[21:35:44] <hop> because most of it probably hangs off of cairo
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• 3047[21:36:43] <hop> s/^/strange,/
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• 3049[21:36:52] <kardborren> Ok, I just have to re-ask this, as a sanity check: Would it be a possible to get rid of (most of) the dependencies if I compiled rsvg-convert myself on another machine and then copied the binary to my server? Or am I being silly/insane?
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• 3052[21:37:40] <hop> don't ask "or" questions
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• 3054[21:38:01] <kardborren> Sorry, correction:
• 3055[21:38:06] <kardborren> Ok, I just have to re-ask this, as a sanity check: Would it be a possible to get rid of (most of) the dependencies if I compiled rsvg-convert myself on another machine and then copied the binary to my server? AND am I being silly/insane?
• 3056[21:38:10] <kardborren> ;)
• 3057[21:38:29] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3058[21:38:33] <hop> to your first: it doesn't seem likely, sorry. to your second: only a bit silly
• 3059[21:38:59] <hop> mitigate by diligently applying security upgrades and taking care where your input comes from
• 3060[21:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1582
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• 3062[21:39:57] <kardborren> hop: Thanks for your input, appreciate it. I'll try to relax more.
• 3063[21:39:59] <brutser> i am trying to fix a hook script for initramfs (replaced-url
• 3064[21:40:00] <brutser> is about and is that the default place to store any keyfiles?
• 3065[21:40:32] <hop> brutser: what package is that hook coming from?
• 3066[21:40:46] <hop> brutser: asking because you linked to github…
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• 3069[21:41:14] <brutser> hop: the script you mean? it's a custom script for creating gpg luks encrypted rootfs
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• 3071[21:41:38] * hop <- confused
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• 3074[21:42:38] <hop> i don't even…
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• 3078[21:44:38] <hop> brutser: /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot?
• 3079[21:46:12] <brutser> hop: yes, but is this a directory a file, what is its purpose?
• 3080[21:46:38] <hop> brutser: it's a config file
• 3081[21:46:47] <hop> presumably
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• 3090[21:50:30] <jhutchins_wk> Recommended links for selectively removing files from a very large directory (12k+)? find seems to be crashing out without deleting.
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• 3096[21:52:07] <nkuttler> !errors
• 3097[21:52:07] <dpkg> If you don't tell us the exact error messages you get, we can't tell you what's wrong, and it's also useful to know exactly what command you're typing. Please look for the *first* error that occurs, as this is often the cause of later errors -- ask me about <localized errors> too. Please don't paste in the channel, use a pastebin instead; ask me about <pastebin>.
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• 3120[22:03:59] <wr> get this output replaced-url
• 3121[22:04:29] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 3122[22:04:37] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: Are you using find with -print0 and piping to xargs?
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• 3129[22:06:58] <jhutchins_wk> Not print- but tried xargs.
• 3130[22:07:14] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: I can't quickly find a page. Use find with -print0 and xargs with -0 and -n (something).
• 3131[22:07:26] <annadane> does anyone have any idea why sometimes when i leave my computer on overnight (running xfce) i come back the next morning to a black screen (this is a desktop) with a _ flashing? i installed the xfce4-power-manager in hopes it solves this, but why would it be doing that?
• 3132[22:07:39] *** Quits: dunningk (~kunningdr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3133[22:07:46] <jhutchins_wk> What I've ended up with is: ls -1f > tempfile; grep -v 2019 tempfile > delete; while read host; dp rm -f $host;done < delete
• 3134[22:07:54] <annadane> i assumed it was hibernating and so pressed combinations of space and enter and it wouldn't go away so i had no choice but to shut it down with the power button
• 3135[22:08:07] <user100> Good evening. Is anyone around to help me? I'm running Debian 9 and just ran update and upgrade, all but 1 package installed. The linux-image-amd64 package was held back. I am confused as to why and a quick Google suggested it has been held back due to new dependancies?? I am unsure and would appreciate any response! Thanks.
• 3136[22:08:25] <annadane> run apt dist-upgrade
• 3137[22:08:46] *** Quits: nuno_nunes (~PC@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3138[22:08:46] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: grecat will complain, but if it works....
• 3139[22:08:56] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: for simply deleting, find -delete is better
• 3140[22:08:58] *** Parts: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 3141[22:09:19] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Except it bombed on the 12k filenames.
• 3142[22:09:42] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: then you did it wrong. find . -iname '*whatever*' -type f -delete
• 3143[22:10:07] *** Joins: ExoUNX (~ExoUNX@replaced-ip)
• 3144[22:10:10] <karlpinc> annadane: Does it let you ssh in? Then you can debug.
• 3145[22:10:11] <jhutchins_wk> Yup. Ka-boom. Well, returned with no changes to the files.
• 3146[22:10:12] * greycat scrolls up ... what on earth is "dp rm"
• 3147[22:10:20] <user100> annadane is that not used to upgrade to Debian 10?
• 3148[22:10:26] <annadane> i have no other computer with which to ssh
• 3149[22:10:36] <greycat> if you're saying "I need to generate a list of filenames on host1 and then apply the rm commands on host2", well then...
• 3150[22:10:37] <karlpinc> user100: !bat
• 3151[22:10:38] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Typo of do rm
• 3152[22:10:42] <karlpinc> !bat
• 3153[22:10:42] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 3154[22:10:56] <karlpinc> user100: ^
• 3155[22:11:20] <jhutchins_wk> Snort. 759 files left now.
• 3156[22:11:24] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: find . -type f ! -name '*2019*' -delete
• 3157[22:11:52] <jhutchins_wk> Tried ctime as well.
• 3158[22:11:52] <annadane> release upgrades do use dist-upgrade or full-upgrade, but dist-upgrade will update the kernel because it handles the changing dependencies
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• 3161[22:12:28] <annadane> if you don't have buster in your sources list then it will not, of course, automatically put you on debian 10 from debian 9
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• 3165[22:12:56] <user100> karlpinc ok thanks. 1 moment
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• 3167[22:13:19] <annadane> actually isn't control alt delete used sometimes to activate from suspend/hibernate? i might've tried that
• 3168[22:13:51] <annadane> i'd tried switching to different virtual terminals and it wouldn't stay there
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• 3174[22:17:25] <user100> karlpinc Please see replaced-url
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• 3183[22:27:13] <user100> annadane Sorry, I've only just seen your reply. Thanks for the info! Is my pastebin concur your diagn
• 3184[22:27:27] <user100> *diagnosis
• 3185[22:27:40] <annadane> ,kernels
• 3186[22:27:41] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-rc5-686 (5.3~rc5-1~exp2); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1)
• 3187[22:28:12] <annadane> user100, just run apt dist-upgrade to install the kernel
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• 3189[22:28:28] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: resume isn't implemented consistently. Sometimes it's the power switch.
• 3190[22:28:41] <annadane> and when you do move to debian 10 buster, read the release notes and you'll know what to do
• 3191[22:28:43] <user100> @ann
• 3192[22:28:51] <user100> annadane thank you
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• 3217[22:45:22] <user100> annadane Success! Issue resolved, thanks again. I have a question regarding the version of Debian, maybe you could help shed some light? My Debian is version 9.11. But when I visit the DebianStretch wiki page, the versions only show up to 9.9. Is that just the page hasn't yet been updated?
• 3218[22:45:38] <annadane> yep, wiki isn't always up to date
• 3219[22:46:12] <annadane> user100, btw if your irc client supports it you can just type the first few letters of someone's name and press tab and it will autocomplete, easier than manually typing it out every single time
• 3220[22:46:13] <user100> Ah ok, I just thinking I've got some bleeding edge version ;)
• 3221[22:47:05] <user100> Thanks, No I'm using the free node web chat page. Not ideal, but I don't have an irc client handy.
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• 3223[22:47:14] <annadane> anyway, man apt or man apt-get and you'll see why i recommend dist-upgrade
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• 3225[22:47:31] <annadane> even though man apt doesn't have dist-upgrade, apt dist-upgrade still works
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• 3227[22:47:45] <user100> Yes funny you should mention. I have just done that and have read the comparison of features that dist-upgrade has.
• 3228[22:48:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 3229[22:48:57] <user100> I will be going to Buster sooner than later, so I am sure to make further use of dist-upgrade
• 3230[22:49:45] <user100> Very grateful of your speedy response and patience with my limited knowledge.
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• 3240[22:57:20] <annadane> anyway, i'm curious as to why my xfce just decided to suspend or whatever out of nowhere
• 3241[22:57:25] <annadane> i specifically didn't tell it to do that
• 3242[22:57:52] <annadane> little miffed because i did lose work because of it
• 3243[22:57:57] *** jelly changes topic to 'Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oft'
• 3244[22:58:13] <jelly> oh that's too long
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• 3248[22:59:46] *** jelly changes topic to 'Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog'
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• 3264[23:04:31] <nvz> jelly: considering nobody reads it, its always too long :P
• 3265[23:04:38] <DebianLoser> My Debian Stretch system does not boot properly. I suspect I may have harmed something when installing some packages in order to get Steam to work.
• 3266[23:05:06] <DebianLoser> If I boot it normally, I am prompted to unlock my partition (LUKS), and then it stalls on "failed to open default intel fw file"
• 3267[23:06:01] <DebianLoser> If I boot it in recovery mode, I get "Cannot open access to console, the root account is locked.
• 3268[23:06:04] <DebianLoser> Any ideas?
• 3269[23:06:29] <karlpinc> DebianLoser: You could try booting in rescue mode from the install media and doing "update-initramfs -u" as root.
• 3270[23:06:49] <karlpinc> DebianLoser: But really, it would be useful to know more about what you did.
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• 3272[23:07:32] <DebianLoser> karlpinc: I am ashamed to admit this, but I mostly followed different guides online on what to edit in order to get it to work. I think the culprit is me manually downloading and installing (with apt) some Intel drivers.
• 3273[23:07:56] <nvz> o.O
• 3274[23:08:38] <DebianLoser> I'll look at booting from a startup usb. The laptop does not have a CD drive. Will try to create one from replaced-url
• 3275[23:09:07] <DebianLoser> And from there I'll try to unlock and mount the encrypted volume, and see if I can retrace my steps and get the right drivers back in place.
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• 3278[23:09:45] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 3279[23:09:45] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 3280[23:09:58] <karlpinc> DebianLoser: Use the netinstall image above.
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• 3282[23:10:30] <DebianLoser> If only someone, anyone, had told me not to randomly cut and paste from forums and into terminal without knowing what I am doing!!!
• 3283[23:10:37] <DebianLoser> Kidding.. I have only myself to blame here, clearly.
• 3284[23:10:53] <annadane> that's okay, you'll never do it again
• 3285[23:11:11] <DebianLoser> No.
• 3286[23:11:32] <DebianLoser> Do I do anything in particular in order to boot from a USB stick? Or does that vary depending on the laptop model?
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• 3293[23:15:09] <karlpinc> DebianLoser: Kinda varies. Sometimes pressing f12 when booting. Other times other things. Sometimes just works. See if you can read the splash on the boot screen or just try pressing various F keys. F2?
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• 3296[23:16:05] <DebianLoser> karlpinc: I actually have the USB I used to install the system with. Would that work, or should I use the ISO provided on the website you linked?
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• 3307[23:18:36] <user100> annadane karlpinc I'm off, thanks for your help.
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