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• 4[00:03:34] <gvth> hop: because I want to know whether I have to reboot my system to run a new kernel
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• 6[00:04:31] <gvth> hop: but I think ChmEarl 's advice was good
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• 37[00:20:39] <Guest010101> Hey there! I was wondering, is there any go to guide on installing software from source on Debian? I've been googling this for a couple of days already but I can't seem to find a "do this, do that" kind of guide. My main concerns are related to, let's say I have a system with 3 users: root and two more regular users. If I build the software from
• 38[00:20:40] <Guest010101> source, should I do it as root? Is it going to be available for all users? Where should I place it?
• 39[00:21:37] <Guest010101> How do I keep track of programs I install? When it comes to removing them, is it enough with removing the directory where they are? What about dependencies of said program?
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• 42[00:21:57] <Guest010101> I'm using Debian 10 at the moment
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• 56[00:30:50] <lord_chris> Guest010101, Use "sudo make install" to install and "sudo make uninstall" to uninstall.
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• 58[00:31:20] <Guest010101> lord_chris would that remove dependencies as well?
• 59[00:32:28] <lord_chris> Normally you install dependencies as described in the README file
• 60[00:33:02] <Guest010101> so, i'd have to remove every one of em by hand, is that what you're saying?
• 61[00:33:09] <lord_chris> yes
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• 64[00:34:05] <Guest010101> i'm sorry i'm new to linux and and tryna figure out all of this. so, where should i do this? should i move the whole untar'd directory to /usr/local/my-new-program?
• 65[00:34:18] <Guest010101> is it gonna be available for all user on my system?
• 66[00:35:03] <krumelmonster> I'm trying to do replaced-url
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• 69[00:35:50] <lord_chris> Guest010101, Current directory is irrelevant
• 70[00:36:06] <krumelmonster> I think the problem ist that my debian mirror ist more up-to-date than the debian installer
• 71[00:36:23] <krumelmonster> All I want to do is preseed a netboot image…
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• 74[00:37:34] <lord_chris> Guest010101, I thick if will be available to all users
• 75[00:37:39] <lord_chris> Guest010101, I recommend documenting all manual installs in a txt file
• 76[00:38:02] <Guest010101> re Current directory is irrelevant. how so?
• 77[00:38:24] <Guest010101> exactly what i had in mind re documenting lol. thanks tho
• 78[00:38:49] <lord_chris> Guest010101, Installation directories is defined in the installer
• 79[00:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
• 80[00:39:45] <lord_chris> Guest010101, Same as installing using an .exe file in windows
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• 82[00:41:40] <lord_chris> Guest010101, You can also uninstall the software manually by removing the installed files
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• 89[00:43:43] <hays> wow huge buster update it seems
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• 93[00:45:35] <hop> Guest010101: use stow to keep manual install tidy
• 94[00:45:55] <hop> Guest010101: don't compile as root, you only have to do the install step as root
• 95[00:47:08] <Guest010101> hop i'll read about stow. thanks!
• 96[00:47:48] <Guest010101> what's the difference b/w compiling as root and as non-root? the root user is the one who's gonna perform the installation anyways, isnt it?
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• 98[00:50:08] <karlpinc> Guest010101: Well, all part of the same rule: use only the minimal permissions required. So, when compiling as root you're running makefiles and autoconf and this and that and there could be something buried in there that does something, if not malicious then ungood, that wouldn't cause harm if you compiled as an oridinary user.
• 99[00:50:31] *** Quits: flo2marsnet (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 100[00:50:36] <karlpinc> hays: A minior release. 10 -> 10.1
• 101[00:50:41] <hays> heh and then you use root to run make install
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• 103[00:51:48] <hop> then don't run make install
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• 105[00:52:12] <hop> or run `make install` as user and change the ownerships afterwards
• 106[00:52:19] <hop> whatever you're comfortable with
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• 111[00:56:08] <hays> Guest010101: FHS says generally that /usr/local is the place to do it if you want everyone to have access
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• 113[00:57:11] <hays> another location is /opt/<program_name> is another place if you want to keep it separate but still available to some users
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• 115[00:58:01] <hays> if you are just one user you can make a place for yourself in your $HOME. I like using $HOME/.local
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• 117[00:59:11] <mcmx> hi, I just wrote a font package, where do I submit it?
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• 119[01:00:35] <hays> something like stow can help keep things clean for things in /usr/local or i guess in $HOME/.local
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• 121[01:01:59] <hays> Guest010101: man hier to read more detail
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• 151[01:38:39] <nvz> idk but I typed rsync -avcHAX --info=progress2 /home/user user@host:/home/user like 25 minutes ago and still all I see is sending incremental file list and no data has been copied
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• 153[01:39:22] <Guest010101> karlpinc hays thank you both! i was afk. i do have one more question re what hays said about installing for one user. i have a root account and two users on the same box. if all the process of locating the files as hop said is automatized by makefile, how can i make the program available only for one user?
• 154[01:41:58] <hays> if you are the user, put it in $HOME/.local. If not, use /opt/<program_name> and assign permissions to that user. add to path.
• 155[01:42:38] <nvz> hmm it finally seems to have started copying
• 156[01:43:16] <hays> when you run ./configure, you can use --prefix=/opt/program_name-version for example
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• 159[01:46:23] <nvz> seemed a lil odd that a Core2Duo E8400 w/ 4GB ram and a sata HDD took nearly half an hour just to START ryncing like 240G
• 160[01:46:24] <karlpinc> Guest010101: Execpt for a single user you'd want --prefix=/home/youruser/local/
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• 162[01:46:55] <karlpinc> nvz: It's all about reading the inodes. Are you rsyncing to a remote location?
• 163[01:47:50] <nvz> just the computer sitting right next to it.. the source is wired, the dest is wireless but both on the same lan
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• 165[01:48:28] <karlpinc> nvz: The dest and source are the same hardware?
• 166[01:48:40] <karlpinc> hardware config?
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• 168[01:49:28] <nvz> no, the source is a Dell Opti780 Core2Duo 8400 w/4gb ram, the dest is a Dell Opti 7010 Core i5 (2nd gen something or other) with 8GB ram and a brand new segate barracuda compute hdd
• 169[01:49:50] <nvz> so the dest is newer/faster
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• 171[01:52:00] <nvz> and the Opti780 is Stretch, the Opti7010 is Buster.. but still seemed like an exaggerated start on that :P I was beginning to think it was the options.. I never used progress2 before
• 172[01:52:37] <nvz> and I wondered were the -v and --info=progress2 gonna clash
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• 199[02:10:27] <karlpinc> nvz: Some options can make it slow (especially checksumming). IIRC it reads all the inodes on both ends and compares before starting the transfer. That can take a bit with lots of small files.
• 200[02:10:57] <nvz> karlpinc: well the remote side is a fresh buster install, there isn't anything there to do anything with :D
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• 203[02:15:49] <nvz> karlpinc: it'd seem that command I typed is putting everything in a subdir which is kind of a PITA :P
• 204[02:16:07] <nvz> it'll be easy enough to mv when its done but that wasn't what I was going for
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• 207[02:17:19] <LtL> nvz: it's a 'to slash or not to slash' thing
• 208[02:18:22] <nvz> LtL: no doubt. I think I put a trailing slash on the dest or something
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• 210[02:18:58] <LtL> if the directory exists it's source/ dest/ if it does not it's source dest/ i believe
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• 214[02:20:23] <nvz> LtL: yeah I dont have the command now, its lost in the buffer but I think thats what I'd typed source dest/
• 215[02:20:52] <nvz> looking at a 3-4hr sync, just gonna let it finish now.. the mv would be nearly instant afterward
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• 217[02:22:25] <nvz> considering it took like 30min to even start sync changing the command wouldnt be worth it
• 218[02:23:30] <LtL> Don't forget the backward slash at the end otherwise rsync will create a new directory inside the destination directory.
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• 221[02:26:25] * karlpinc has a tendency to use tar -C /some/sourcedir -cf - . | ssh root@dest tar -C /some/dest/dir -xf-
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• 223[02:26:40] <karlpinc> or -xpf on the remote end
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• 229[02:28:48] <LtL> karlpinc: hrm, i like that.
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• 231[02:29:15] <LtL> wouldn't it be scp though?
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• 233[02:29:52] <CrystalMath> does archive.debian.org have FTP access?
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• 235[02:31:59] <LtL> CrystalMath: doesn't look like it, connection refused.
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• 239[02:33:51] <CrystalMath> oh :(
• 240[02:33:57] <CrystalMath> buzz needs FTP
• 241[02:34:12] <CrystalMath> maybe i can make some http-over-ftp proxy
• 242[02:34:55] *** Joins: chromeGuitarman (~stevegbae@replaced-ip)
• 243[02:34:56] <nvz> debian stopped ftp access ages ago, its a horribly ancient protocol
• 244[02:35:20] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
• 245[02:35:24] <LtL> as is telnet, which was the 'thing' decades ago.
• 246[02:35:28] *** Quits: mcmx (~mcmx@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 247[02:35:31] <nvz> !ftp must die
• 248[02:35:31] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
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• 250[02:36:13] <CrystalMath> nvz: yeah but now i must write a proxy thing
• 251[02:36:50] <CrystalMath> not even telnet's on this thing
• 252[02:36:57] <CrystalMath> it's in the packages
• 253[02:37:03] <CrystalMath> but that's over at archive.debian.org
• 254[02:37:05] <LtL> CrystalMath: sftp archive.debian.org connects but they're using keys.
• 255[02:37:05] <CrystalMath> which it can't reach
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• 257[02:37:33] <CrystalMath> let me try sftp
• 258[02:37:44] <LtL> ya need ssh keys
• 259[02:37:47] <nvz> what is your actual issue here?
• 260[02:37:56] <CrystalMath> nvz: trying to install packages in buzz
• 261[02:38:03] <nvz> heh
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• 263[02:38:24] <LtL> i would think it's http accessible, haven't tried.
• 264[02:38:32] *** Joins: stevegbaer_ (~stevegbae@replaced-ip)
• 265[02:38:33] <CrystalMath> no http in the base buzz install
• 266[02:38:42] <CrystalMath> not even netcat
• 267[02:38:44] <CrystalMath> just ftp
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• 272[02:39:20] <CrystalMath> i managed to work around the lack of DHCP :)
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• 274[02:39:29] <CrystalMath> well, "managed"
• 275[02:39:33] <CrystalMath> DNS doesn't work :(
• 276[02:40:04] <CrystalMath> unsurprisingly, no sftp
• 277[02:40:07] <nvz> the entire buzz archive is probably so small that if you're really intent on using it for whatever silly reason, you can just setup a local mirror
• 278[02:40:19] <nvz> its probably under 500MB
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• 280[02:40:31] <CrystalMath> nvz: hmm
• 281[02:40:37] <CrystalMath> any way to download entire directories?
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• 285[02:43:09] <CrystalMath> will try wget
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• 288[02:44:00] <CrystalMath> okay downloading :)
• 289[02:44:30] *** Joins: Sami_ (~sami@replaced-ip)
• 290[02:44:49] <gvth> Is it recommended to always use rsync instead of cp?
• 291[02:45:12] <nvz> CrystalMath: it doesn't look to me like the archive for debian buzz is even usable the paths are wrong in the packages file
• 292[02:45:46] <nvz> gvth: no, why would anyone recommend such a thing?
• 293[02:46:51] <gvth> nvz: I thought so because rsync seems so much more efficient than cp
• 294[02:46:53] <nvz> CrystalMath: filename: Debian-1.1/binary-i386/shells/zsh-2.6-beta13-2.deb that path isn't even on archive.debian.org
• 295[02:47:16] <LtL> nvz: oh, i said backward slash earlier, i meant backslash.. but you know that.
• 296[02:47:17] <CrystalMath> hmm, well
• 297[02:47:26] <CrystalMath> it might be possible to fix the paths
• 298[02:47:31] <CrystalMath> furthermore, the debs should work
• 299[02:47:42] <nvz> gvth: no.. not even close.. I am rsyncing right now and it took like 30min to even START copying anything.. I lost 30min of transfer time on a 3-4hr transfer using rsync
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• 301[02:48:06] <gvth> nvz: then why are you rsync'ing at all?
• 302[02:48:12] <nvz> gvth: the options an behavior are so different it would likely only cause problems
• 303[02:48:17] <LtL> err forward slash even, rsync always confuses me.
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• 305[02:48:42] <nvz> gvth: because in this case the dest is over the network and cp won't work at all, and rsync has the ability to resume scp doesnt
• 306[02:49:13] <nvz> gvth: using rsync instead of scp maybe, but not instead of cp
• 307[02:49:19] <gvth> nvz: but why would the start of a copy operation take 30 minutes?
• 308[02:49:51] <nvz> gvth: because rsync has to compile a file list first, and compare the source and dest
• 309[02:50:11] <gvth> nvz: okay
• 310[02:50:11] <LtL> nvz: you just had a lot of files, thats why it took so long to start copying, karlpinc was right. compression would help probably, i forget that switch.
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• 312[02:50:42] <nvz> LtL: -c and I used that, and the dest is a fresh install.. there was nothing on the dest to compare
• 313[02:50:48] <annadane> a good assumption with debian is, use the simplest options unless you have to use something else
• 314[02:51:04] *** Quits: b0b (~bob@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 315[02:51:06] <annadane> find the problem you want to solve and find the easiest way of solving it
• 316[02:51:11] <nvz> LtL: regardless its not a good idea to just go swapping cp out for rsync :D
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• 318[02:51:43] <LtL> nvz: agreed, rsync wins easily.
• 319[02:52:19] <gvth> I am considering performing backups with rsync
• 320[02:52:51] <LtL> gvth: restic is good, you might look at it
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• 325[02:54:02] <gvth> LtL: looks interesting but it's somehow not so popular among Debian users...
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• 328[02:55:16] <LtL> gvth: rsync is great, just mind your slashes.
• 329[02:56:45] <gvth> also, backuppc seems promising
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• 335[02:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1529
• 336[02:59:10] <CrystalMath> okay i am installing packages, yay
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• 338[03:00:18] <dvs> oh noes
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• 341[03:03:00] <karlpinc> gvth: There is also dirvish and rsnapshot
• 342[03:03:17] <karlpinc> (I use plain rsync with hard links.)
• 343[03:03:26] <nvz> CrystalMath: you just setup a local mirror?
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• 350[03:06:15] <alka_> helo
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• 352[03:06:23] <dvs> oi
• 353[03:06:35] <CrystalMath> nvz: yeah
• 354[03:06:42] *** Quits: Xu95 (~Xu95@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 355[03:06:49] <alka_> can you remote control my system
• 356[03:06:53] <nvz> CrystalMath: what tool did you use? Is it on Buster?
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• 359[03:07:10] <alka_> its mxlinux 18.3
• 360[03:07:10] <CrystalMath> nvz: okay i was lazy and just made a cdrom :P
• 361[03:07:16] <nvz> heh
• 362[03:07:24] <nvz> CrystalMath: using jigdo?
• 363[03:07:29] <CrystalMath> nvz: genisoimage
• 364[03:07:32] <alka_> does any body talking to me
• 365[03:07:37] <alka_> i am newbie girl
• 366[03:07:55] <nvz> CrystalMath: I'm just saying it may be worth documenting what resolved it
• 367[03:08:05] <gvth> karlpinc: I think I will go with rsnapshot
• 368[03:08:08] <CrystalMath> nvz: i could host FTP but it all fits on a cdrom
• 369[03:08:09] <nvz> considering the older dists are unusable as is
• 370[03:08:17] <CrystalMath> nvz: there's pyftpd
• 371[03:08:21] <CrystalMath> it sounds small
• 372[03:08:25] <alka_> helo
• 373[03:09:06] <nvz> alka_: do you have an issue with debian stable?
• 374[03:09:27] <alka_> i am having mx linux 18.3 stable
• 375[03:09:39] <alka_> i could not install my wifi driver
• 376[03:09:50] <CrystalMath> nvz: oh look, buzz has bootp
• 377[03:09:53] <nvz> alka_: this is #debian, we support debian stable you need to goto mxlinux support or install debian
• 378[03:09:56] <alka_> if anybody can remotely control my pc
• 379[03:09:57] <CrystalMath> nvz: so i *can* DHCP, heh
• 380[03:10:12] <nvz> alka_: for debian you'd want to use the firmware install images to insure wifi connectivity
• 381[03:10:18] <nvz> !firmware images
• 382[03:10:18] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 383[03:10:20] <alka_> ok
• 384[03:10:23] <nvz> !mx linux
• 385[03:10:24] <dpkg> Current MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at replaced-url
• 386[03:10:25] *** Joins: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip)
• 387[03:10:40] <alka_> i am going to mx linux
• 388[03:10:49] *** Quits: alka_ (~alka@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 389[03:10:56] <nvz> alka_: well good luck with that, they have virtually no support or community
• 390[03:11:17] <nvz> !why debian
• 391[03:11:17] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 392[03:11:21] <CrystalMath> so, bootp works, and it managed to fetch my network settings
• 393[03:11:30] <CrystalMath> too late though, as my network is already configured and working
• 394[03:11:33] <CrystalMath> :P
• 395[03:11:57] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip)
• 396[03:12:29] <CrystalMath> dselect really resembles aptitude
• 397[03:12:29] <dselect> CrystalMath: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
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• 399[03:12:38] <dvs> heh
• 400[03:12:42] <CrystalMath> no not the bot, i meant the software
• 401[03:12:56] <CrystalMath> i'm using that
• 402[03:12:58] <CrystalMath> since, no apt...
• 403[03:13:56] <nvz> ah.. I remember dselect from when I'd first gotten on debian.. but I was on Potato and it had apt.. it just didnt yet have aptitude or synaptic as I recall
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• 410[03:21:42] <CrystalMath> nvz: gonna try to install xfree86
• 411[03:21:49] <CrystalMath> but here's the issue... ISO-9660 cut off my file names :(
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• 414[03:23:08] <nvz> hmm..
• 415[03:23:14] <nvz> !joliet
• 416[03:23:29] <CrystalMath> anyway
• 417[03:23:33] <CrystalMath> i will set up FTP :P
• 418[03:23:37] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 419[03:23:43] <nvz> !udf
• 420[03:23:43] <dpkg> [udf] Universal Disk Format, a filesystem standard primarily used on DVDs. Tools are packaged in udftools, see also <udf packet writing>.
• 421[03:23:51] <CrystalMath> is that readable on buzz?
• 422[03:24:03] <nvz> hell if I know..
• 423[03:24:22] <nvz> but iso+joliet or udf solves those issues
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• 425[03:24:47] <nvz> replaced-url
• 426[03:25:37] <CrystalMath> worth a try
• 427[03:26:22] <nvz> win94 and nt4 supported it according to that..
• 428[03:26:28] <nvz> erm win95 rather
• 429[03:26:44] <nvz> !buzz
• 430[03:26:45] <dpkg> somebody said buzz was Debian 1.1, released June 1996 (474 packages, 2.0 kernel, fully ELF, dpkg). Ask me about <archive>.
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• 432[03:27:10] <CrystalMath> hmm, i have separate binary-i386 and binary-all
• 433[03:27:16] <CrystalMath> maybe i should merge them into one folder called "binary"
• 434[03:27:46] <nvz> yeah idk why they did that back then.. cause I think i386 was the only arch at the time
• 435[03:28:09] *** Joins: nouveau (c6a673fc@replaced-ip)
• 436[03:29:20] <nouveau> With the release of mumble-1.3.0, will buster get an update from its RC version to the new stable?
• 437[03:29:37] <dvs> nouveau, probably not
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• 440[03:31:06] <nouveau> I guess I'll have to wait for it to hit sid and install from there then?
• 441[03:31:17] <dvs> or backports
• 442[03:31:26] <dvs> don't install it from sid
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• 447[03:33:11] <CrystalMath> nouveau: backports or backport yourself
• 448[03:33:16] <CrystalMath> it's easy
• 449[03:33:30] <CrystalMath> just dget the package, use dch to add the "bpo" tag
• 450[03:33:40] *** Quits: Rubin (rubin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 451[03:33:43] <CrystalMath> and then dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
• 452[03:33:50] <CrystalMath> assuming you have all the dependencies ready, it should just work
• 453[03:34:03] <nouveau> "easy" for someone who knows the process maybe
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• 456[03:34:42] <nouveau> I can't even get the source to compile atm because it's missing some libs.
• 457[03:34:55] <CrystalMath> it's easier to compile the debian package
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• 459[03:35:40] <nouveau> Well, according to their install pages, "libg15daemon-client-dev" is needed but I can't find that package in the repos.
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• 462[03:38:28] <nvz> LtL: fwiw I'd stopped that and excluded the 120G image file it has been working on this whole time and did rsync -acHAX --info=progress2 --exclude=120G.img /home/user user@host:/home/user without the trailing slash this time and it still created a subdir :P
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• 464[03:38:55] <dvs> judd, v libg15daemon-client-dev
• 465[03:38:56] <judd> Package: libg15daemon-client-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.9.5.3-8.3; stretch: 1.9.5.3-8.3+b1
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• 469[03:40:23] <LtL> nvz: you want a trailing slash on the destination, but not on the source, the dest will be created iirc. if dest exist, then trail slash on both.
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• 471[03:41:28] <LtL> i'd need to check my notes but i think that's correct.
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• 473[03:42:43] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. Is there a package that is or does a good job resembling Safari? I was just looking at browser statistics and saw that Safari is now more popular than Firefox. I am so weirded out by that.
• 474[03:42:49] *** Quits: Granis (~granis@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 475[03:43:36] <LtL> if you include the / on the source side it means "files in the dir" and if you omit it then it means "the dir" itself
• 476[03:43:43] <nvz> LtL: thats what I had on the original command source dest/
• 477[03:44:44] <LtL> that's odd
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• 481[03:45:19] <dvs> but that's not the source side
• 482[03:45:22] <nvz> well the homedir did exist on the dest, it was just empty as a fresh install
• 483[03:45:39] <LtL> nvz: did the destination exist?
• 484[03:45:42] <LtL> oh ah
• 485[03:45:59] <nvz> its booted to MATE its just a clean install
• 486[03:46:08] <nvz> so there isnt much of anything there
• 487[03:46:12] <LtL> then you needed two slashes
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• 494[03:52:10] <LtL> nvz: so the destination had a had a sub-directory of what you wanted, right?
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• 501[03:55:09] <LtL> just mv the sub dir to another dir, rm the top dir and mv the former sub-dir to /home/
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• 509[03:59:18] <LtL> of course you'll need to mv outside of /home/ for that -if- that's the case. can't believe i'm giving you advice :)
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• 511[04:02:07] <LtL> if the dest didn't exist it would have been perfect syntax.
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• 514[04:02:44] <nvz> LtL: I just wanted to sync the damn homedir on two machines.. heh.. apparently I been doing it wrong. but idc as long as the data gets over there I can fix it later
• 515[04:03:08] <LtL> nvz: nod
• 516[04:03:17] <nvz> now excluding that disk image, I have over 6G copied so far
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• 519[04:03:38] <nvz> before I only had 10M and half an image file I shouldnt have been copying to begin with
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• 521[04:03:57] <LtL> nvz: how much data are you moving, 250GB? or MB
• 522[04:04:20] <nvz> originally it looked like 240-250G but now without that image file its probaly half that
• 523[04:04:25] <LtL> Okay, i see
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• 526[04:05:21] <LtL> rsync is a fantastic tool, but the slashes are everything.
• 527[04:05:35] <nvz> I may as well just focus on getting crossover installed on it while this is happening cause he already has MSOffice installed in crossover on the old stretch machine, so if I just install crossover, once his homedir is sync I wont have to reinstall office
• 528[04:05:57] <LtL> or lack of slashes, hence my initial remark. to slash or not to slash.
• 529[04:06:17] <nvz> slash isn't real </southpark>
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• 532[04:07:15] <LtL> slash is a guitar player i thought!
• 533[04:07:23] <nvz> I'd need to go find my external drive to get my crossover tarball.. I have a script that makes sure all the deps and multiarch and crap is setup properly
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• 535[04:07:46] <nvz> just having their deb package isnt enough to get it all setup properly
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• 538[04:10:09] <nvz> i had tried at two different points in time with the latest wine and he says it performs better with the crossover 17 I guess *shrug* the fact tht he claims his MS Office 2003 or w/e it is, is better than libreoffice makes me doubt anything he says :P
• 539[04:10:33] <nvz> but if thats all it takes to keep him on Debian, I can't complain
• 540[04:12:26] <nvz> still haven't gotten my brother to embrace it yet.. he like my father is delusional that they can keep using Win7 forever
• 541[04:12:52] <GenTooMan> Well I managed to disengage the nvidia drivers good thing I prepared for the worst to start with. So the Nvidia drivers just don't work nouvea work but not fast. Such is life I guess.
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• 543[04:13:37] <nvz> such is hardware :D
• 544[04:14:03] <nvz> my Intel HD4400 in this Haswell i5 is pretty good but it is not without its issues either
• 545[04:14:29] <nvz> I've settled on using modesetting driver without the pageflipping for now.. seems best situation
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• 548[04:15:16] <nvz> idk what performace I may be losing disabling that but its either use the intel driver and google earth doesn't work or use modesetting as-is and get log spam about pageflipping every 2 seconds
• 549[04:16:15] <nvz> other than that the only other piece of hardware that gives me any greif is a realtek pcie sd card reader.. I haven't really bothered to look into it.. but such is hardware.. its a mess
• 550[04:16:29] <GenTooMan> it would have been nice if nvidia did some hypervisor based API driver so Mesa could be used for GLX etc. without writing low level drivers. It would be nice if log utilities did line for line compression so that if a notice is repeated 20000 times it only ends up being 1 line.
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• 553[04:23:37] <dvs> nvz, the card reader may require firmware
• 554[04:26:41] <dvs> nvz, rts5208.ko?
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• 571[04:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1516
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• 579[04:47:42] <nvz> don't think so..
• 580[04:48:25] <nvz> dvs: rtsx_pci seems to be the driver that claims it 02:00.0 Unassigned class [ff00]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTS5227 PCI Express Card Reader [10ec:5227] (rev 01)
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• 582[04:48:40] <dvs> ok
• 583[04:49:08] <nvz> I haven't actually tried to use it I just know it doesn't actually show up as a block device that I can see.. but the driver seems to load
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• 585[04:49:34] <ZaZaGX> omg, i just met a random dude that runs Debian too
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• 588[04:50:52] <mcmx> how do I contribute a font package?
• 589[04:51:21] <mcmx> do I email the font task force mail list or what?
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• 598[05:01:25] <nvz> ZaZaGX: how random? does the dude use havaged?
• 599[05:01:34] * nvz smirks
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• 603[05:05:18] <ZaZaGX> not sure
• 604[05:05:24] <ZaZaGX> but he has a mac, and he uses debian 9.1
• 605[05:05:32] <ZaZaGX> he misses ifconfig i heard from him
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• 612[05:14:49] <nvz> ZaZaGX: do you know what havaged is?
• 613[05:15:06] <ZaZaGX> i just googled it. nope
• 614[05:15:15] <nvz> ,i havaged
• 615[05:15:16] <judd> No package named 'havaged' was found in buster/amd64.
• 616[05:15:31] <ZaZaGX> he thought i was a hacker, because i am using debian 10
• 617[05:15:48] <nvz> ZaZaGX: its a daemon for producing entropy for random generation.. it was a joke
• 618[05:16:02] <ZaZaGX> yeah i know
• 619[05:16:03] <nvz> ZaZaGX: you said he was a "random" dude..
• 620[05:16:10] <ZaZaGX> i didn't think it was funny
• 621[05:16:13] <dgp> ZaZaGX: did you show him your mad CMDLINE skills?
• 622[05:16:19] <nvz> heh
• 623[05:16:22] <ZaZaGX> lol no
• 624[05:16:35] <dgp> I bet he doesn't even compile his own kernel
• 625[05:16:41] <ZaZaGX> yeah he was sitting next to me at a coffee shop
• 626[05:17:15] <dgp> lame, real linux users don't go outside
• 627[05:18:10] <ZaZaGX> well, i get depressed at home. i try to be more anomyous by jumping on different wifi hotspots
• 628[05:19:55] * dgp feels that would just give google etcs trackers more information about where you live..
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• 631[05:21:48] <ZaZaGX> i use plugins to block stuff. and i use a vpn
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• 634[05:23:16] <dgp> so you move around to be more anonymous and then funnel your traffic through a probably five eyes controlled traffic concentrator?
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• 640[05:26:18] <ZaZaGX> actually, the vpn is used is outside of the 14 eyes
• 641[05:27:40] <ZaZaGX> that i use*
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• 649[05:37:02] <hatter_> I am working out an offsite backup script for a webserver using tar then piping to a remote server, I initially was planning ssh with passwordless login, however this means if the webserver gets compromised, the attacker will have ssh access to the remote server, so I was thinking of using an ftp server at the offsite location instead and limiting access to it via FTP. Comments ?
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• 654[05:40:18] <dgp> hatter_: 1: Don't write it yourself. Use one of the many tools that are already in debian. 2: pretty much everyone uses ssh keys for this. The private key is only on the side that connects so there isn't a risk of the key being used to login from the other side.
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• 657[05:42:25] <hatter_> :dgp, thx, if the webserver that is uploading the tarball is compromised and the attacker gains root access they can then use that key to gain access to the remote server ?
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• 659[05:43:35] <hatter_> oops I forgot the command to hightlight the user
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• 661[05:43:49] <dgp> Why would you do the upload as root. Why would the remote server allow the user linked to the ssh key do anything aside from uploading files to a single directory
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• 665[05:46:28] <hatter_> :dgp, I am using ispconfig which has all the webserver /var/replaced-url
• 666[05:46:46] <dgp> ispconfig doesn't do that
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• 668[05:48:02] <hatter_> dgp, sorry you are right. I was looking at the symlinks.
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• 688[06:11:00] <Betal> hello, testing this inside a VM, debian9 xfce from 9.9.0-i386 iso, when I resize the terminal and it is cd'd inside a big-name-folder, the terminal emulator crash, is this ok?
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• 690[06:16:15] <gordonfish> Hmm, after updating debian 10 to 10.1 via apt update/dist-upgrade, /etc/debian_version shows 10.1 but lsb_release -a shows no mention of 10.1, just 10, same with /etc/os-release, no mention of .1, did I miss something?
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• 693[06:25:23] <dax> nope, that's normal
• 694[06:27:08] <mcmx> am I muted?
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• 696[06:27:33] <xsoultartar> gordonfish, lsb_release actuall pick debian version from /etc/debian_version (replaced-url
• 697[06:27:55] <xsoultartar> gordonfish, It is possible that the upgrade is incomplete?
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• 700[06:28:18] <mcmx> guess so lol
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• 709[06:34:52] <dax> replaced-url
• 710[06:35:09] <dax> whether or not it *should* show the point release appears to be an open question, but it does in fact not, and this is normal
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• 714[06:39:20] <jh001_> hm, just pulled up stretch, lsb_release -a reports 9.11
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• 717[06:40:22] <dax> yup
• 718[06:41:00] <dax> maybe i'm using the wrong word. by "normal" i mean every 10.1 system does this and it's not indicative of an incomplete upgrade.
• 719[06:41:45] <jh001_> agreed. I feel 10.1.
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• 726[06:54:44] <gordonfish> xsoultartar: The upgrade had completed without any errors.
• 727[06:55:17] <gordonfish> dax: Thanks
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• 730[06:58:26] <xsoultartar> dax, Nice
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• 732[06:59:42] * gordonfish wonders what host dax is inhabiting these days
• 733[06:59:43] <infinity_> hatter_: don't use ftp, I would use ssh.
• 734[06:59:57] <gordonfish> eww
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• 737[07:00:55] <hatter_> :infinity_ thx, I will.
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• 770[07:36:54] <jaggz> how do I see the results of the fsck's after booting after touching /forcefsck?
• 771[07:38:02] <jaggz> tune2fs -l shows my hdd was checked, but /run/initramfs/fsck.log only shows my sdd
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• 774[07:41:54] <jaggz> hrm.. looks like it did end up in syslog
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• 779[07:53:46] <nvz> !lsb
• 780[07:53:46] <dpkg> from memory, lsb is Debian is dropping LSB support; see replaced-url
• 781[07:54:08] <nvz> debian dropped lsb support 4 years ago
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• 783[07:54:53] <nvz> cat /etc/debian_version
• 784[07:55:05] <dax> they didn't drop lsb-release, as mentioned in that LWN link
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• 786[07:55:30] <nvz> yes they also never really had lsb support
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• 789[07:56:13] <dax> i'm not sure how "debian dropped things that aren't lsb-release" is relevant to a (possible) bug in lsb-release
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• 792[07:57:23] <nvz> carry on, I'm tired and not going to... point I'm making is, people need to quit coming in here worried about broken upgrades because they're checking something nobody in debian has ever cared about.. version numbers an lsb
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• 794[07:58:00] <metbsd> how do i upgrade it to 10.1
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• 796[07:58:26] <dax> metbsd: what are you on currently
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• 799[07:59:18] <metbsd> 10
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• 802[07:59:38] <dax> just do a normal apt update and upgrade from an up-to-date debian mirror
• 803[07:59:58] <metbsd> dax: i did. lsb-release still says 10
• 804[08:00:33] <dax> as discussed in scrollback, 10.1 does that, yes
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• 808[08:00:52] <metbsd> ok thanks
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• 882[09:08:18] <dokma> Can't get mouse to work in XFCE for hours after buster upgrade. xorg.conf: replaced-url
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• 884[09:09:16] <dokma> I do get: glx module abi major version (8) doesn't match the server's version (10)
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• 886[09:09:28] <dokma> But X is working. I'm typing this from XFCE right now.
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• 888[09:09:44] <dokma> Just the mouse is dead like a brick.
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• 891[09:10:30] <dokma> file /dev/input/mice gives: character special (13/63)
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• 894[09:11:28] <dokma> I do get a bunch of mentions of mouse in dmesg. No errors spotted.
• 895[09:11:41] <dokma> Could this be XFCE related?
• 896[09:11:49] <dokma> I might try another DE...
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• 899[09:13:10] <dokma> Just tried startx /usr/bin/openbox ... no dice
• 900[09:13:22] <dokma> Mouse is dead both under XFCE and OpenBOX
• 901[09:13:48] <dokma> So it looks Xorg related
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• 903[09:15:21] <dokma> Is there any other way to test /dev/input/mice ??
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• 912[09:17:50] <dokma> evtest /dev/input/mice gives evtest: can't get version: Inappropriate ioctl for device
• 913[09:18:15] <dokma> My mouse config came from X -configure
• 914[09:18:21] <dokma> A fresh one
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• 920[09:19:58] <dokma> Does anyone see what I'm saying here? I see absolutely no messages in the channel...
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• 923[09:20:51] <Habbie> dokma, nobody has responded to you
• 924[09:21:13] <dokma> Habbie: ah... ok... it was a bit strange to see nothing with 1500 in the channel
• 925[09:21:15] <Habbie> dokma, Europe is just waking up; the US is asleep; give it some time
• 926[09:21:18] <Habbie> yes, i understand that :)
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• 929[09:22:38] <dokma> Gotta restart X
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• 936[09:25:20] <dokma> back
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• 947[09:32:58] <dokma> Restart X
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• 950[09:34:59] <dokma> Back
• 951[09:35:32] <dokma> evtest /dev/input/event3 gives action on mouse movement so I assume that is the correct mouse device
• 952[09:36:18] *** Quits: gusnan (~gusnan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 953[09:36:58] <dokma> New xorg.conf: replaced-url
• 954[09:37:00] <dokma> Still no joy
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• 959[09:37:17] <dokma> No device in Mouse and Touchpad under XFCE
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• 981[09:52:22] <dokma> Works! My user was not in the 'input' group and couldn't read/write to the device.
• 982[09:52:50] <dokma> It would be really neat if Xorg would mention somewhere in the logs that it failed to open the device file. Would've saved me hours.
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• 984[09:54:06] <ratrace> dokma: systemd solves all the permissions required. are you running startx directly?
• 985[09:54:16] <dokma> ratrace: yes
• 986[09:54:36] <ratrace> then you'll also need audio, video groups and access to gpu/dri
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• 988[09:54:51] <dokma> I have audio and video groups
• 989[09:54:55] <ratrace> dokma: but be aware of the security implications of doing so
• 990[09:55:00] <dokma> Just ran a game and it worked...
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• 992[09:55:10] <megumin> mouse scrolling doesn't work after update to 5.2
• 993[09:55:19] <dokma> ratrace: I'm not aware of any. Any reading on that?
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• 996[09:55:54] <dokma> megumin: try evtest "your mouse device here"
• 997[09:55:56] <ratrace> dokma: well think about it. you're giving your user and all the processes running under your user, read/write access to hardware, especially keyboard.
• 998[09:56:18] <ratrace> dokma: under systemd/logind, you don't have that access except via regular xorg APIs
• 999[09:56:49] <dokma> ratrace: so when I login via a login manager I would get a systemd/logind login?
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• 1001[09:56:54] <ratrace> basically, that's going back to windows xp security model
• 1002[09:57:08] <ratrace> dokma: under "regular" debian, yes
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• 1004[09:57:33] <dokma> My install is 15 years old so I've fallen back a bit.
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• 1006[09:57:55] <dokma> I start with startx /usr/bin/startxfce
• 1007[09:58:10] <dokma> No login manager
• 1008[09:58:23] <ratrace> any random site can exploit your firefox, for example, which you run unisolated, and execute code to keylog everything you type. that malware wouldn't even need to access any xorg vulns to do so, it'd have unfettered access to your input device
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• 1010[09:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1528
• 1011[09:59:05] <dokma> I'll go back to slim
• 1012[09:59:18] <ratrace> slim is abandonware for several years now. try lightdm
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• 1014[09:59:33] <ratrace> (and iirc slim had massive issues with logind)
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• 1016[10:00:42] <colo-work> can anyone tell me which filesystem is supposed to be full for the puprose of this dpkg error message? replaced-url
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• 1018[10:01:15] <dokma> ratrace: can I get lightdm to kick in with a runlevel change down and back up?
• 1019[10:01:21] <ratrace> colo-work: /dev/sda1 232M 187M 30M 87% /boot
• 1020[10:01:23] <dokma> ratrace: without restart
• 1021[10:01:57] <ratrace> dokma: I don't know. Why would oyu need to, though? you have other TTYs
• 1022[10:02:26] <dokma> ratrace: lightdm won't kick in on another tty if I login there no?
• 1023[10:02:34] <colo-work> ratrace, good catch. thanks. I blame it on Monday blindness 8)
• 1024[10:02:38] <ratrace> btw there aren't any runlevels any more under systemd. you can approximate them with targets though
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• 1026[10:02:52] <dokma> ratrace: oh I see
• 1027[10:03:00] <dokma> ratrace: I'll just reboot
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• 1052[10:18:03] <jmd> Which package should I reconfigure to change the console's keyboard layout?
• 1053[10:18:03] <dokma> ratrace: under lightdm keyboard and mouse do not work
• 1054[10:18:10] <pasiz> dokma: killing lightdm process restarts it
• 1055[10:18:22] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1056[10:18:28] <ratrace> dokma: how did you start lightdm?
• 1057[10:18:32] <dokma> ratrace: I reverted back to no DM and now keyboard and mouse do not work again
• 1058[10:18:42] <dokma> ratrace: just set it as default DM and rebooted
• 1059[10:18:59] <ratrace> dokma: did you mess with udev rules to change /dev input,audio,video permissions?
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• 1061[10:19:24] <dokma> ratrace: not today. Maybe years back something was changed
• 1062[10:19:33] <megumin> dokma, there are no events when I scroll
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• 1064[10:19:49] <dokma> megumin: probably the driver
• 1065[10:19:56] <ratrace> jmd: console-setup iirc
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• 1068[10:21:08] <ratrace> dokma: which debian is this?
• 1069[10:21:12] <jmd> ratrace: Thanks
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• 1083[10:30:21] <dokma> ratrace: all works now. Had to remove a autoadddevices false and autoenabledevices false.
• 1084[10:30:28] <dokma> ratrace: am under lightdm now
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• 1086[10:30:41] <ratrace> dokma: excellent.
• 1087[10:31:09] <dokma> ratrace: grazie tante
• 1088[10:31:25] <ratrace> prego
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• 1093[10:35:10] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. I asked this earlier and didn't get an answer. Is there a Safari(-like) program in Debian packages? I looked and didn't find anything named Safari, so I don't know what to look for next.
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• 1095[10:36:00] <ws2k3> got a weird issue on a debian 10 machine. dnsmasq suddenly is not resolving anymore. but i change my resolve.conf instead of 127.0.0.1 to the dns server i want. then it works just fine. so how could debug dnsmasq/ systemd-resolve --status
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• 1099[10:37:37] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: there's no Safari for Linux afaik. There's nothing "like" it unless you mean just "a browser" or "a webkit based" browser, but iirc Safari ain't pure webkit
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• 1102[10:38:36] <ratrace> ws2k3: are you using dnsmasq OR systemd-resolved?
• 1103[10:38:37] <Lady_Aleena> ratrace, darn it. According the a couple sites, it is the 2nd most used browser after Chrome. I wanted to test an svg in it.
• 1104[10:38:45] <soar> is there any german channel to play?
• 1105[10:38:47] <ratrace> ws2k3: systemd-resolved is not default on debian
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• 1107[10:39:41] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: maybe its windows version via Wine
• 1108[10:40:04] <ws2k3> ratrace: not entirely sure which is being used actualy. i can see systemd-resolve --status gives me output and i see dnsmasq is running
• 1109[10:40:12] <Lady_Aleena> soar, there is #debian-de over on OFTC.
• 1110[10:40:23] <Lady_Aleena> ratrace, ick.
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• 1113[10:40:56] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 1114[10:40:59] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: well here's an ick-ier advice: getamac :)
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• 1116[10:41:08] <Lady_Aleena> ratrace, ereplaced-url
• 1117[10:41:45] <Lady_Aleena> I won't own any fruity devices.
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• 1119[10:42:22] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: word.
• 1120[10:42:39] <ratrace> I wouldn't use one even if gifted. I'd just sell it on ebay to first apple fanboi sucker :)
• 1121[10:42:42] <Lady_Aleena> ...or an ifruity devices.
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• 1126[10:44:52] <ratrace> ws2k3: systemctl status systemd-resolved ?
• 1127[10:45:01] <ayew> i see the usefulness of an apple device, just dont see any usefulness for me
• 1128[10:45:25] <ws2k3> ratrace: its running
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• 1132[10:46:18] <ratrace> ws2k3: well, it's in conflict with dnsmasq, so they can't both be running. what's listening on localhost port 53? ss -4lnp
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• 1137[10:49:41] <Lady_Aleena> Well, it looks like I will have to hope that my svgs work on (i)fruity devices.
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• 1188[11:16:29] <ws2k3> ratrace: replaced-url
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• 1194[11:19:17] <ratrace> ws2k3: so actually dnsmasq is listening on localhost. systemd-resolved is listening on its own stub listener IP, so basically then it only matters which one you choose via resolv.conf
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• 1204[11:29:08] <fabio_> Hello?
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• 1207[11:30:23] <ZaZaGX> hi
• 1208[11:30:44] <ZaZaGX> errr hi
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• 1211[11:31:48] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: there are tools out there for simply testing code in different browser scenarios
• 1212[11:32:09] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: I dont know of one offhand, but I know if that is your only goal, there are tools that to that
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• 1233[11:51:35] <emulated> Hello, do official debian ISOs install with non-free enabled by default in sources.list?
• 1234[11:52:43] <nvz> !firmware images
• 1235[11:52:43] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 1236[11:52:56] <nvz> emulated: no
• 1237[11:53:31] <nvz> emulated: it would be a violation of the Social Contract if they did
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• 1241[11:54:06] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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• 1243[11:54:58] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, is there a command that opens the default terminal application? For example, typing "open-default-shell" should open konsole on KDE, gnome-terminal on gnome, and xterm on xfce
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• 1245[11:56:17] <Habbie> tobiasBora, can you try 'x-terminal-emulator'?
• 1246[11:56:19] <nvz> tobiasBora: x-terminal-emulator
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• 1248[11:57:18] <nvz> tobiasBora: but thats controled by alternatives not by login to a given DE
• 1249[11:57:59] <tobiasBora> thanks, but do you have one controled by login to a given DE?
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• 1254[12:03:13] <nvz> tobiasBora: no, freedesktop.org implements no such standard.. it was proposed and never adopted. there is however a shell script that aimed to implement it
• 1255[12:03:16] <nvz> tobiasBora: replaced-url
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• 1258[12:04:45] <tobiasBora> nvz: great, thanks!
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• 1260[12:05:15] <emulated> nvz: is it possible that by loading external firmwares during installation, debian is instructed to add 'non-free' to sources.list? Because I found it already enabled after a fresh installation.
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• 1263[12:06:24] <nvz> emulated: probably
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• 1266[12:06:59] <emulated> nvz: I am thinking about future upgrades to firmware packages that would not be possible with non-free disabled
• 1267[12:07:12] <nvz> emulated: yes, that is my thought as well
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• 1269[12:07:36] <emulated> nvz: OK, thank you for helping ;)
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• 1289[12:31:45] <citypw> replaced-url
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• 1296[12:36:08] <jelly> citypw: a message like this is better suited for #debian-offtopic channel, keep this channel for tech support
• 1297[12:36:41] <citypw> jelly: noticed! thanks for the heads-up;-)
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• 1337[13:05:32] <NetTerminalGene> how can i learn if this bug fixed? replaced-url
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• 1343[13:11:53] <Habbie> NetTerminalGene, you click the link (the one with the number in it) and read the progress of this issue
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• 1346[13:13:26] <NetTerminalGene> Habbie, there is nothing helpful in that link
• 1347[13:13:28] <jelly> NetTerminalGene: click on the bug number.
• 1348[13:13:34] <jelly> lol
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• 1350[13:14:10] <annadane> Fixed in version calamares-settings-debian/10.0.23-1
• 1351[13:14:17] <jelly> NetTerminalGene: when a bug is fixed, there's info which package versions contain the fixed code
• 1352[13:14:18] <annadane> !next
• 1353[13:14:19] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 1354[13:14:31] <jelly> NetTerminalGene: there's also an image on top right of the page
• 1355[13:14:36] <Habbie> ,v libblockdev
• 1356[13:14:37] <judd> No package named 'libblockdev' was found in amd64.
• 1357[13:14:47] <NetTerminalGene> annadane, how did you find that?
• 1358[13:14:56] <annadane> because it's on the bug page
• 1359[13:15:02] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1360[13:15:03] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1361[13:15:05] <jelly> annadane: did you... READ it?
• 1362[13:15:29] <Habbie> ,v calamares-settings-debian
• 1363[13:15:31] <judd> Package: calamares-settings-debian on amd64 -- buster: 10.0.20-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 10.0.25-2; sid: 10.0.25-2
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• 1365[13:16:33] <NetTerminalGene> Habbie, it is still vulnerable, right?
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• 1367[13:16:49] <Habbie> NetTerminalGene, replaced-url
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• 1370[13:17:21] <Habbie> NetTerminalGene, looks fixed in buster to me
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• 1377[13:18:35] <NetTerminalGene> Habbie, but i think it was fixed before release of buster. if so, why did they add that bug in release note?
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• 1382[13:19:05] <Habbie> NetTerminalGene, i don't know
• 1383[13:19:30] <jelly> NetTerminalGene: it wasn't fixed in time for the fixed version to be in 10.0 release.
• 1384[13:19:45] <Yopyop> Hello, does anybody know where the log are stored in buster when I use iptables with TRACE, nf_log_ipv4 is loaded and nf_log.2 set to it ?
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• 1389[13:26:55] <rtp2342> hi, what is the "apt" equivalent to "apt-get -d install PKGNAME"?
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• 1397[13:33:43] <rtp2342> i want to download a package and all its dependencies
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• 1400[13:34:37] <jelly> rtp2342: --download ?
• 1401[13:35:08] <rtp2342> jelly: that will download *only* the specified package, not the dependencies
• 1402[13:35:41] <jelly> rtp2342: so will apt-get, if the dependencies are already in place
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• 1404[13:36:20] <BCMM> jelly: there will not necessarily be an equivalent feature. apt is a convenient front-end for the most common package management tasks in debian, not a full replacement for the other tools.
• 1405[13:36:31] <BCMM> sorry, wrong nick. rtp2342 ^
• 1406[13:36:34] <jelly> oh, it's --download-only now
• 1407[13:36:50] <rtp2342> ah thanks
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• 1409[13:38:20] <rtp2342> hmm, the apt manpage doesn't mention this option
• 1410[13:38:43] <jelly> that's for apt-get
• 1411[13:38:59] <rtp2342> oh
• 1412[13:39:08] <rtp2342> so apt simple cannot do that
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• 1414[13:39:13] <rtp2342> *simply
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• 1416[13:39:29] <jelly> yep
• 1417[13:39:34] <rtp2342> great. i thought i could replace apt-get with apt.
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• 1421[13:40:28] <jelly> you can replace some apt-cache and some apt-get functionality
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• 1452[14:14:21] <Schwarzbaer> Hi. I've got a bit of a weird one... I'm working with Panda3D (3D engine), and try to use it to move the mouse pointer while it's on a window. Doesn't work for me on two notebooks (both Debian), but I've asked someone else to run the program, and it works for him. So, wild guess, the WM rejects the mouse pointer repositioning requests. How do I check for that, and if true, how do I fix it? What other reasons could
• 1453[14:14:21] <Schwarzbaer> there be?
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• 1460[14:19:53] <BCMM> Schwarzbaer: are you using Wayland?
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• 1465[14:22:50] <nvz> Schwarzbaer: iirc the xev program that shows input information can be attached to a specific window/process
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• 1469[14:23:46] <nvz> from xev(1) -id windowid This option specifies that the window with the given id should be monitored, instead of creating a new window.
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• 1472[14:24:32] <Schwarzbaer> BCMM, I have *no* idea...
• 1473[14:24:57] <nvz> xwininfo or wininfo are two commands that can be used to determine the window id
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• 1476[14:25:15] <nvz> there are others but I can't think of them off the top of my head
• 1477[14:25:22] <BCMM> Schwarzbaer: ok. can you check the output of `echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE`?
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• 1479[14:25:55] <Schwarzbaer> wayland
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• 1483[14:27:21] <BCMM> Schwarzbaer: unlike x11, wayland is designed with security in mind. normal applications have a limited ability to do things like fake keystrokes and mouse movements.
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• 1485[14:27:37] <BCMM> i.e. things that could be used to take control of other applications
• 1486[14:28:07] <Schwarzbaer> Reasonable. I expect there's a finely granulated way to override that though?
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• 1490[14:30:17] <BCMM> i don't think so, unfortunately. usually features that need that functionality, like remote desktop, are added to the compositor itself
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• 1497[14:31:52] <Schwarzbaer> Huh... Well, at least now the problem is found, thanks.
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• 1499[14:32:58] <BCMM> i'm pretty sure there's some analog to mouse grabbing (e.g. and FPS that wants to use the mouse for rotating the player view without edges)
• 1500[14:33:06] <BCMM> but i don't think it works the same as in x11
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• 1509[14:38:05] <Akuw_> i need some clarification abotu NTP
• 1510[14:38:28] <Akuw_> when i have a master server that provides NTP and that service has problems
• 1511[14:38:34] <Akuw_> what happen with time?
• 1512[14:38:52] <Akuw_> is offset then
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• 1523[14:43:59] <Akuw_> because when time change here there was a problem with syncronization after 72 hours
• 1524[14:44:10] <Akuw_> we have to restart NTP server
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• 1529[14:46:12] <PrincessZelda> Hey.
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• 1531[14:46:56] <PrincessZelda> I want to install and use Debian on a system that will never get in touch with a internet connection. Are the first 3 DVDs of Debian enough for a standard office installation?
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• 1534[14:47:32] <jelly> PrincessZelda: the first dvd ought to be enough, too, for a _wired_ network connection.
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• 1536[14:48:35] <PrincessZelda> The computer will never see a internet connection. Not using WiFi and not using Wired.
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• 1542[14:51:14] <dvs> PrincessZelda, you can see the list of packages on each DVD from these files: replaced-url
• 1543[14:51:23] <lord_chris> PrincessZelda, Everything needed for a default install with gnome is to my knowledge on the first DVD
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• 1545[14:51:43] <PrincessZelda> lord_chris: Thanks, but I plan to use Mate.
• 1546[14:51:54] <PrincessZelda> dvs: Thank you, I will check this out.
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• 1550[14:52:42] <lord_chris> PrincessZelda, I think that MATE is on there too
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• 1552[14:53:26] <EdePopede> ah, nice. was looking for these files yesterday :)
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• 1554[14:56:35] <Akuw_> how many times NTP make sync? every second?
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• 1559[14:58:57] <PrincessZelda> Akuw_: systemd-timesync or ntpd or something else?
• 1560[14:59:46] <greycat> ntp, systemd-timesyncd and chrony are probably the most common. Not a lot of people choose openntpd at this point.
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• 1564[15:00:14] <featherx> hello
• 1565[15:00:56] <PrincessZelda> greycat: Does systemd-timesyncd offers a time server? Or is it only a client?
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• 1568[15:02:39] <greycat> Hell if I know. I would never ever ever let an optional component of systemd continue running longer than it takes me to install and configure real NTP.
• 1569[15:02:55] <ayekat> timesyncd just implements a server AFAIK
• 1570[15:04:03] <Akuw_> i stoped ntp and run ntpdate ntp.shoa.cl
• 1571[15:04:06] <Akuw_> got 9 Sep 10:02:21 ntpdate[15885]: adjust time server 200.54.149.19 offset -0.000222 sec
• 1572[15:04:10] <Akuw_> so is ok
• 1573[15:04:18] <greycat> *sigh*
• 1574[15:04:21] <greycat> !ntpdate
• 1575[15:04:21] <dpkg> ntpdate is an obsolete and unmaintained program to set a system clock via <NTP>. Just install the ntp package instead. Since Debian 5.0 "Lenny", ntp's default configuration files (NTPD_OPTS='-g' in /etc/default/ntp, 'iburst' option for default servers in /etc/ntp.conf) make ntpdate unnecessary. See also <why not ntpdate>.
• 1576[15:04:29] <Akuw_> the problem is with a server taking sync who knows from where
• 1577[15:04:35] <Akuw_> is not my server
• 1578[15:05:37] <greycat> Akuw_: you still haven't told us *which* NTP service you're running locally. That's required to answer your original question of "how often does it sync".
• 1579[15:05:51] <koollman> 'sometimes, maybe' :)
• 1580[15:06:14] <greycat> If it's "ntp", the answer is "there isn't a fixed interval; packets start out more frequent, and then become less frequent as ntpd becomes confident in the clock's operation".
• 1581[15:06:34] <greycat> If it's openntpd or chrony or systemd-timesyncd then I do not know.
• 1582[15:07:22] <Akuw_> ntp
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• 1584[15:07:46] <PrincessZelda> openntpd?
• 1585[15:07:52] <greycat> And it's probably also worth pointing out that the clock isn't CHANGED every time a network packet is exchanged. Those are just to track clock drift. The actual clock changes are done speeding up or slowing down the system clock by tiny adjustments, and then allowing it to catch up to the reference clock.
• 1586[15:08:13] <PrincessZelda> NTP is just a name... it doesn't help us finding out *which* service you use.
• 1587[15:08:54] <Akuw_> how can i get info you need
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• 1590[15:09:44] <Akuw_> ii ntp 1:4.2.8p10+dfsg-3 amd64 Network Time Protocol daemon and utility programs
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• 1592[15:09:52] <greycat> Akuw_: which package is installed, or which process did you find in the ps output, or which service name did you query with systemctl status, to find out about it?
• 1593[15:09:56] <greycat> ah, there you go.
• 1594[15:10:16] <greycat> So the answers I gave are applicable.
• 1595[15:10:44] <Akuw_> then i need to install diferent package?
• 1596[15:10:50] <greycat> No.
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• 1605[15:13:49] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 1611[15:15:45] <greycat> The short version is "it doesn't just change the clock every X hours like Fucking Windows does"
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• 1679[15:58:02] <nmschulte> vim: When I exec vim like `vim -u ./.vimrc', with 'source $HOME/.vimrc' as the first line of ./.vimrc -- vim complains about the 'execute pathogen#infect()' line in my ~/.vimrc -- 'Unknown function ...' -- any ideas how to resolve this? Pathogen is installed system-wide
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• 1686[16:02:51] <elios> hi wahat does it mean release for security.debian.org is not valid yet (invalid for another 1h 0min) updates for repositry will not be applied
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• 1688[16:04:15] <Habbie> elios, it usually means your local clock is wrong
• 1689[16:04:15] <nmschulte> your clock is probably wrong, elios
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• 1693[16:06:13] <elios> like the bios clock or what?
• 1694[16:06:23] <nvz> the system time
• 1695[16:06:36] <greycat> you could start by running "date" and "date -u"
• 1696[16:06:57] <elios> weird it does relate to my actuall time tho
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• 1698[16:07:19] <greycat> if date -u reports the wrong UTC time, then your *system* clock is set wrong, which may or may not have anything to do with your *bios* (hardware) clock
• 1699[16:07:37] <greycat> if "date" reports the wrong time but "date -u" looks correct, then your time zone is set wrong
• 1700[16:07:49] <nvz> Mon 09 Sep 2019 02:07:49 PM UTC
• 1701[16:07:57] <elios> yes
• 1702[16:08:16] <elios> got the same result as nvz
• 1703[16:08:28] <nvz> Mon 09 Sep 2019 10:08:27 AM EDT
• 1704[16:08:37] <elios> (UTC)
• 1705[16:09:10] <elios> so how can i reconfigure local time if needed?
• 1706[16:09:18] <greycat> dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
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• 1708[16:09:43] <greycat> that's for the time zone. if you mean "the system clock", then the next question is "does this system dual-boot with any other OSes, especially Windows"
• 1709[16:09:52] <gordonfish> metbsd: `cat /etc/debian_version` will show the full version number.
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• 1711[16:10:01] <elios> thanks. now it didn't report anything about security updates at all.
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• 1713[16:10:43] <nvz> ,v libc6
• 1714[16:10:44] <judd> Package: libc6 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; bullseye: 2.28-10; buster: 2.28-10; sid: 2.28-10; experimental: 2.29-0experimental0
• 1715[16:10:45] <elios> after reconfiguring tzdata and ap update etc
• 1716[16:10:58] <elios> never saw this before
• 1717[16:11:00] * nvz hmmz
• 1718[16:11:39] <nvz> well /etc/debian_version says 10.1 and I guess I'm still on buster
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• 1720[16:12:16] <nvz> but for some reason when I'd verified I can get s.d.o just now I saw unstable sources and found a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/unstable.list file on my system I don't recall putting there
• 1721[16:12:23] <nvz> I've deleted it now of course
• 1722[16:12:36] <nvz> idk how that happened :-/
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• 1727[16:14:38] <elios> i would have just moved it. just in case.
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• 1729[16:15:06] <nvz> no reason to have it.. its a single line file
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• 1731[16:15:15] <elios> ok
• 1732[16:15:25] * nvz goes to check history
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• 1737[16:16:53] <nvz> no mention of unstable in any of my bash history or apt term.log files
• 1738[16:17:03] <Akuw_> to copy 20GB using scp from one node to server it is network intensive and cpu intensive right?
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• 1740[16:17:06] <nvz> I have no idea how that got there :P
• 1741[16:17:13] <Akuw_> and i need to do it from 15 nodes
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• 1743[16:17:53] <nvz> Akuw_: one file or many? lots of small files?
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• 1747[16:18:00] <Akuw_> many
• 1748[16:18:19] <nvz> Akuw_: you'll have a lot of interrupts and iowait but its not terribly cpu intensive
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• 1751[16:18:37] <Akuw_> nvz: but what about network ?
• 1752[16:18:39] <nvz> and you can do it across many nodes with ansible or such
• 1753[16:18:52] <nvz> it'll be a decent draw on network bandwidth
• 1754[16:20:31] <jelly> Akuw_: from 15 nodes to 1 server, that server will be the bottleneck but it's anyone's guess whether you're going to see cpu or io or network bottleneck or none
• 1755[16:20:57] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1756[16:21:22] <BCMM> Akuw_: usually network will be the bottleneck
• 1757[16:21:26] <Akuw_> i am worry about nodes because that nodes are getting lot of transactions ans saving iamges and log
• 1758[16:21:27] <nvz> 20GB isnt too much.. shouldnt take more than like 5min probably each.. you could just do one at a time if you're concerned
• 1759[16:21:43] <Akuw_> one node at time
• 1760[16:21:47] <BCMM> Akuw_: if you have very slow hardware or a very fast network, ssh crypto might cause one end to bottleneck on CPU
• 1761[16:21:50] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
• 1762[16:21:59] <nvz> and you could tar it up and use rsync with compression to speed it up
• 1763[16:22:23] <BCMM> Akuw_: it's always worth thinking about whether you should use compression or not. it's much easier to hit a CPU bottleneck with compression than with just crypto
• 1764[16:22:30] *** Quits: jacksoow (~jacksoow@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1765[16:22:31] <Akuw_> compress is not an option, not enough space in nodes
• 1766[16:22:46] <Akuw_> ok
• 1767[16:22:46] <ratrace> compress in transit
• 1768[16:22:47] <nvz> compression can be done in real-time via rsync
• 1769[16:22:47] *** Quits: Hitmanu (~manuel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
• 1770[16:23:11] * Haohmaru compresses nvz
• 1771[16:23:15] <BCMM> Akuw_: not sure what sort of compression you mean, but i was talking about the compression built-in to ssh (or rsync)
• 1772[16:23:16] <nvz> and you can pipe through a compression/tar tool even directly to the network
• 1773[16:23:56] <Akuw_> that images are jpg
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• 1775[16:24:08] <Akuw_> so compression will be a waste of cpu ?
• 1776[16:24:13] <ratrace> yup
• 1777[16:24:13] <BCMM> yes
• 1778[16:24:22] <BCMM> you'll gain nothing from compressing it anyway
• 1779[16:24:31] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
• 1780[16:24:44] <BCMM> and it can actually make things slower
• 1781[16:24:45] *** Joins: sbeex (~sbeex@replaced-ip)
• 1782[16:25:03] <nvz> you'd only gain being able to transfer it faster and not having all the interrupts because it'd only be reading one file.. less disk/journal transactions
• 1783[16:25:07] <sbeex> hi guys, I try to setup a linux machine which only provide access to skype
• 1784[16:25:08] *** Joins: jacksoow (~jacksoow@replaced-ip)
• 1785[16:25:09] <nvz> but the cpu would take a hit
• 1786[16:25:27] <nvz> but it'd be on the nodes not the server if you compressed it before transfer
• 1787[16:25:38] <sbeex> do you know some starter image that could help with it ?
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• 1791[16:26:35] <nvz> sbeex: if you wanna use debian just install a base, then maybe use nodm, a light wm, and install skype and setup the .xsession to start skype automatically perhaps
• 1792[16:26:41] <BCMM> sbeex: just use a minimal debian install, and don't put any software other than skype and it's dependencies on there
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• 1796[16:27:10] <sbeex> BCMM: yes but then the user will be able to create folders, etc
• 1797[16:27:21] <sbeex> I would like a "kiosk mode'
• 1798[16:27:41] <BCMM> sbeex: i think you're out of luck there. the skype application itself is able to create directories.
• 1799[16:27:52] <sbeex> haha shame..
• 1800[16:28:07] <nvz> sbeex: nodm facilitates with making it more kiosk like, you customize the session, and then just set things like quota or acls or MAC or such to deal with the rest
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• 1803[16:28:33] <gordonfish> Lady_Aleena: If you just want to test how something looks in Safari, there are sites that can run the test for a given url and return back a screenshot (I think there might be some interactive ones now even.)
• 1804[16:28:34] <nvz> debian doesn't have a jeos setup or anything pre-made for this.. but its trivial to make something
• 1805[16:28:35] <sbeex> nvz: thx I will google it a bit
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• 1808[16:29:01] <sbeex> well could be debian or something else I am open minded but yes on this channel for sure I wont get more info xD
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• 1810[16:29:08] <sbeex> maybe should ask on ##linux
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• 1812[16:29:19] <nvz> sbeex: we can go more in depth
• 1813[16:29:31] <BCMM> sbeex: i mean, i haven't used the latest version of skype much. but skype supports file transfer, and it's probably still possible to choose where to save the received file
• 1814[16:29:39] <nvz> I can anyhow.. I got a couple hours yet this morning.. I could even setup a vbox image as an example or something
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• 1817[16:30:00] <superlinux1> hello
• 1818[16:30:32] <sbeex> nvz: what about porteus kiosk ?
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• 1820[16:30:43] <BCMM> sbeex: yup. tools -> settings -> messaging -> when i receive a file -> change directory
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• 1822[16:30:54] <superlinux1> my long submenus in MATE applications list does not have a scroll up/down. what's the fix for this?
• 1823[16:30:58] <BCMM> that opens a GTK file picker with the ability to create folders
• 1824[16:31:19] <nvz> sbeex: that I can't comment on, this is #debian and I am a debian user through and through.. I never even heard of that and I don't use anything but debian
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• 1827[16:31:42] <sbeex> okay
• 1828[16:31:45] <sbeex> thx
• 1829[16:31:47] <horribleprogram> Not sure exactly where to ask this question
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• 1832[16:32:05] <horribleprogram> Trying to set up HostGator's SSH access into my website
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• 1843[16:33:00] <BCMM> horribleprogram: usually hosting providers have their own web interface for uploading an ssh key. either proprietary or based on cpanel.
• 1844[16:33:23] *** Joins: sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@replaced-ip)
• 1845[16:33:23] <horribleprogram> BCMM: Perfect, so basically I understand everything about using the cpanel to generate SSH keys
• 1846[16:33:32] <horribleprogram> but I'm not sure exactly what I do with public and private ssh keys
• 1847[16:33:38] <horribleprogram> so it's more of an SSH question
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• 1850[16:34:01] <BCMM> ah, i see. the public key needs to be installed on the server (the web interface ought to be able to do this for you)
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• 1855[16:34:30] <BCMM> horribleprogram: the private key is for you to use on your client. what OS is your ssh client machine running?
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• 1860[16:34:43] <BCMM> (or what ssh client will you be using?)
• 1861[16:34:58] <horribleprogram> either Debian or macOS, depending on which computer I'm on
• 1862[16:35:07] <horribleprogram> and yeah, so I'm just passed that step there
• 1863[16:35:35] <horribleprogram> I'll screenshot it
• 1864[16:35:40] <BCMM> horribleprogram: ok. your private key should go in ~/.ssh/ on the client
• 1865[16:35:53] <horribleprogram> replaced-url
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• 1869[16:36:38] <horribleprogram> BCMM: the only file in my ~/.ssh is known_hostss
• 1870[16:36:45] <horribleprogram> on my client
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• 1872[16:36:55] <BCMM> horribleprogram: 1) download the private key and save it as ~/.ssh/id_rsa
• 1873[16:37:01] <horribleprogram> iight perfect
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• 1875[16:37:13] <BCMM> 2) and apply the appropriate permissions, because ssh will refuse to use a "private" key which is readable by other users on the system
• 1876[16:37:41] <BCMM> 3) you probably want to "authorise" the public key on that cpanel interface (click "Manage")
• 1877[16:38:23] *** Joins: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip)
• 1878[16:38:25] <ratrace> omg we're giving cPanel support now in #debian! After cPanel backstabbed and ditched Debian!
• 1879[16:38:31] <horribleprogram> wait hold on am I downloading the id_rsa.pub file and moving it to ~/.ssh/ or am I copying the text of the private key and pasting it in a new file id_rsa
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• 1882[16:38:47] <ratrace> (btw, I'd always prefer uploading public keys to sites, instead of getting private keys from them)
• 1883[16:39:35] <BCMM> horribleprogram: either should have the exact same effects
• 1884[16:39:45] <horribleprogram> What's the a public key and private key
• 1885[16:39:50] <horribleprogram> why are there 2 keys
• 1886[16:40:03] <ratrace> because of assymetric crypto
• 1887[16:40:10] <horribleprogram> why can't I just authenticate with my password
• 1888[16:40:17] <ratrace> replaced-url
• 1889[16:40:34] <BCMM> horribleprogram: it's "asymmetric encryption". if something is encrypted with the private key, you can only decrypt it with the public key, and vice versa
• 1890[16:41:14] <gordonfish> Ok, I know that after upgrading Debian 10 to 10.1, lsb_release and /etc/os-release do not show 10.1 (only /etc/debian_version does), which I've learned is expected. What I'm wondering is, is this only the case when installing fresh from the 10.1 iso ?
• 1891[16:41:15] <BCMM> horribleprogram: ssh supports password auth too. however, keys are a bit more convenient once they're set up.
• 1892[16:41:18] <horribleprogram> I see
• 1893[16:41:26] <BCMM> horribleprogram: more importantly, your provider might have disabled password auth
• 1894[16:41:30] <horribleprogram> iight I'll figure it out from here
• 1895[16:41:31] <gordonfish> s/only/also/
• 1896[16:41:37] <horribleprogram> tyvm
• 1897[16:41:38] <jelly> the key parts are named the other way round, but BCMM was right
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• 1899[16:42:06] <horribleprogram> yeah it's the private key you're giving to your other users for ssh access
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• 1901[16:42:29] <jelly> gordonfish: no, patching up to 10.1 point release will have same results
• 1902[16:42:47] <BCMM> horribleprogram: there are botnets that will constantly try to brute-force SSH passwords, and it's very difficult to make users choose passwords that aren't completely stupid
• 1903[16:43:02] <BCMM> horribleprogram: if your provider forces you to use keys instead of passwords, that's probably way
• 1904[16:43:22] <BCMM> ^why
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• 1906[16:43:31] <horribleprogram> it makes sense yes
• 1907[16:43:32] <gordonfish> jelly: I'm asking if installing fresh from the 10.1 isos also just shows 10 instead of 10.1
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• 1909[16:44:08] <jelly> gordonfish: yes, and it's not "instead", the OS is still Debian 10, buster
• 1910[16:44:31] <jelly> gordonfish: .1 is just some patches.
• 1911[16:44:42] <gordonfish> Ok thanks.
• 1912[16:44:42] *** Quits: enoq (~enoq@replaced-ip) (Quit: enoq)
• 1913[16:44:43] <greycat> gordonfish: /etc/debian_version should say 10.1
• 1914[16:44:47] <horribleprogram> the only weird thing is I usually ssh into a SSH server, not a web server, so idk where I'll be dropped into and the file structure of the web server
• 1915[16:44:54] <gordonfish> jelly: I get that, though /etc/debian_version still shows 10.1
• 1916[16:44:59] <greycat> There you go.
• 1917[16:45:01] <gordonfish> greycat: Yep
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• 1919[16:45:17] <horribleprogram> I mean my Debian is like 20 ft from me but i SSH into it on my mac
• 1920[16:45:30] <jelly> are iso images for 10.1 out yet
• 1921[16:45:58] <jelly> horribleprogram: ssh will normally place you into user's HOME on remote system
• 1922[16:46:01] *** jhutchins_wk1 is now known as jhutchins_wk
• 1923[16:46:05] <greycat> horribleprogram: ssh puts you in your home directory, as defined in your user account's definition (passwd, LDAP, NIS, etc.)
• 1924[16:46:09] <jelly> wherever that may be.
• 1925[16:46:09] <horribleprogram> and I'm using "Shared Web hosting" so I have to use ssh -p 2222
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• 1927[16:46:16] <horribleprogram> ahhhh
• 1928[16:46:32] <horribleprogram> I bought this thing yesterday, figured I'd use it for something
• 1929[16:46:35] <horribleprogram> horribleprogrammer.com
• 1930[16:46:35] <gordonfish> Yes, replaced-url
• 1931[16:46:52] <jelly> ssh service can be configured to do something else, but that is somewhat unusual.
• 1932[16:47:14] <gordonfish> jelly: I see debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-{1,2,3}.iso there already
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• 1934[16:47:20] <jelly> good
• 1935[16:47:34] <horribleprogram> I bought https (well it came free) but when I jump onto my site it says "Not Secure" with a HostGater splash screen
• 1936[16:47:35] <jelly> those weren't there yesterday
• 1937[16:47:39] <horribleprogram> I haven't set up any index.html files or w/e yet
• 1938[16:47:43] *** Joins: ghydra (~ghydra@replaced-ip)
• 1939[16:47:44] <horribleprogram> and is there a better channel for this?
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• 1942[16:48:25] <gordonfish> jelly: Well 10.1 just came out on saturday, so the mirrors are just getting updated it seems
• 1943[16:48:26] <horribleprogram> replaced-url
• 1944[16:48:49] <jelly> horribleprogram: documentation and support for your hosting provider are the best place to look up specifics of your web hosting setup
• 1945[16:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1579
• 1946[16:49:15] <horribleprogram> jelly: yeah I gotta figure out the portal vs the cpanel
• 1947[16:49:19] <horribleprogram> jelly: and where to find documentation
• 1948[16:49:24] <jelly> gordonfish: there's only one cdimage.debian.org and the images were 2 days late there
• 1949[16:49:54] <jelly> horribleprogram: mind you, "cpanel" is one specific software solution for a web hosting control panel
• 1950[16:50:08] <horribleprogram> jelly: hahah don't confuse me yet
• 1951[16:50:35] <horribleprogram> but yeah I understand
• 1952[16:50:41] <gordonfish> jelly: I do understand that the OS is Debian 10, Buster, I just, at first, felt it a little strange that /etc/debian_version and /etc/os-release as well as lsb_release didn't seem to agree.
• 1953[16:50:48] <horribleprogram> I just want to be able to ftp and ssh into my website
• 1954[16:51:01] <horribleprogram> to bypass using cpanel
• 1955[16:52:07] *** Quits: jasperarcola_ (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1956[16:52:23] <jelly> horribleprogram: sometimes you do not have shell access for ssh, or not have it by default and have to enable somewhere in the control panel.
• 1957[16:52:36] <greycat> gordonfish: it's an intentional change, for whatever reason.
• 1958[16:52:52] * greycat continues never using lsb_* for anything
• 1959[16:53:33] <gordonfish> I generally don't use them, I'm just rather used to looking at lsb_release after a dist upgrade from habit
• 1960[16:53:48] <greycat> cat /etc/debian_version is a better habit, then
• 1961[16:53:50] <gordonfish> along with /etc/debian_version
• 1962[16:54:06] <gordonfish> yes
• 1963[16:54:28] *** Quits: suami_napsuan (~androirc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1964[16:55:33] <gordonfish> I also look at /etc/os-release which I where, iirc, that lsb_release gets it's info from.
• 1965[16:55:41] <gordonfish> s/I/is/
• 1966[16:57:06] <greycat> Unpacking mariadb-server-core-10.3 (1:10.3.17-0+deb10u1) over (1:10.3.15-1) ...
• 1967[16:57:09] <gordonfish> Which was rather useful after upgrading a 9.x server to 10
• 1968[16:57:23] <jelly> !debian suite
• 1969[16:57:23] <dpkg> cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions.
• 1970[16:57:32] <greycat> looks like mariadb gets to join the L33t Kr3w of packages that are so broken they have to be upstream-bumped during a stable released
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• 1974[16:58:06] <jelly> greycat: they play catchup with oracle's tarballs and their security fixes
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• 1979[16:58:37] <greycat> bind9, samba, firefox, mariadb
• 1980[16:58:40] <jelly> postgres also gets upstream patch level applied.
• 1981[16:58:45] <greycat> hmm
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• 1984[16:59:11] <jelly> which is probably more sane than debian maintainers backporting stuff forever
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• 2032[17:19:04] <BCMM> horribleprogram: if you're paying for hosting, you should probably talk to the provider's support. but a message about it being "insecure" might just mean they haven't set up your https cert yet (particularly if you set up the hosting package first and moved your domain over after)
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• 2065[17:43:17] <patrickmm> this is probably not the ideal place to ask, but, how do you specify window manager colours in mate in a GTK3 theme?
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• 2073[17:51:01] <ayekat> window manager colours are not defined by the GTK theme
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• 2079[17:57:55] <SerajewelKS> i have an md-raid device that i use as the root for a KVM VM. the VM uses LVM. i just rebooted the host and found that the _host_ had activated the _guest's_ volume group because upon reboot the partitions in the raid1 were discovered.
• 2080[17:58:10] <SerajewelKS> is there some way to tell the host of a specific md-raid device that should not be probed for anything?
• 2081[17:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1573
• 2082[17:59:12] <SerajewelKS> or some way to tell the host of specific VG names it should not auto-activate?
• 2083[17:59:43] <jelly> SerajewelKS: that, Sir, is an excellent question
• 2084[18:00:27] <jelly> they only simple workaround I know of is "go back to sysvinit"
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• 2087[18:01:04] <jelly> (init scripts for mdadm will actually obey what's written in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf and debconf)
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• 2090[18:02:53] * karlpinc wonders if there's a bug for this
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• 2092[18:03:50] <jelly> SerajewelKS: you can prevent scanning of particular PV with filter = in /etc/lvm/lvm.conf
• 2093[18:05:21] <SerajewelKS> jelly: good info, thanks
• 2094[18:05:38] <SerajewelKS> if i can identify the pv by uuid, that would be ideal
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• 2096[18:06:38] <jelly> you can tell lvm to be more picky in what it accepts as valid PV device paths, too, if that is easier.
• 2097[18:07:13] <jelly> otherwise you need to blacklist every path in /dev the device can be seen as (maybe not the symlinks)
• 2098[18:08:17] <SerajewelKS> uuid would be easiest
• 2099[18:08:54] <SerajewelKS> there's only one pv but i don't want to depend on md device numbers to identify it
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• 2105[18:10:32] <jelly> if you don't use lvm otherwise, uninstall it?
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• 2111[18:14:23] <SerajewelKS> i use it on the host and guest
• 2112[18:14:48] <SerajewelKS> so that's not an option for me
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• 2128[18:28:01] <jelly> then you probably have more than one pv, and I misread something
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• 2142[18:38:02] <aypea[1]> has anyone used the [global-dns] settings with network manager?
• 2143[18:38:18] <aypea[1]> am having issues so would love to see a working config.
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• 2157[18:45:42] <Abdullah> I have thinkpad and touchpad stops working after a lid close.
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• 2172[18:49:09] <mcmx> how do I contribute a package to the debian font task force?
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• 2179[18:52:29] <nvz> mcmx: my guess would be through replaced-url
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• 2198[19:07:08] <jhutchins_wk> ,v irssi
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• 2200[19:07:10] <judd> Package: irssi on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; stretch: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.2.0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 1.2.0-2; bullseye: 1.2.1-1; sid: 1.2.1-1
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• 2207[19:09:24] <SerajewelKS> jelly: host has PV and guest has PV, the host is discovering the guest VG even though i don't want it to, so i just want to blacklist the guest's PV/VG so the host LVM doesn't find it
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• 2220[19:12:24] <MicroJoe> hello everyone, I have a classic LVM/cryptsetup debian install, but since 10.1 upgrade yesterday the passphrase is not working anymore, any similar issues yet ? (non-qwerty la out)
• 2221[19:12:29] <MicroJoe> layout*
• 2222[19:12:47] <ZaZaGX> not me
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• 2224[19:13:42] <MicroJoe> mh, are you using a qwerty layout or something more fancy ?
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• 2227[19:14:48] <MicroJoe> my initial guess is console-setup upgrade may have reset the layout somehow, gonna try with qwerty map under the eyes
• 2228[19:14:50] <ZaZaGX> nope
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• 2231[19:15:22] <ZaZaGX> i do have LVM/cryptsetup too
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• 2240[19:19:56] <MicroJoe> no more chance with qwerty, but selecting kernel 4.19-5 in grub instead of 4.19-6 dois solve the issue and boots
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• 2242[19:20:18] <MicroJoe> I guess 4.19-6 was introduced with 10.1
• 2243[19:20:21] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip)
• 2244[19:20:31] <greycat> yes
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• 2247[19:21:24] <MicroJoe> curious I am the only one to have this issue, will be happy to help debugging this
• 2248[19:21:53] <greycat> Does your passphrase stuff require a kernel module that was previously built for the 4.19.0-5 kernel ABI? If so, installing the headers for -6- should trigger dkms to rebuild the module.
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• 2255[19:23:54] <MicroJoe> I do not remember touching anything special but just using the installer, the only reason I could think of is keyboard layout which is french azerty instead of qwerty
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• 2257[19:24:33] <MicroJoe> But when typing the passphrase for qwerty using a map it does not works better for -6
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• 2259[19:25:43] <Kobaz> soooo, i'm having this problem: rdate -np localhost ... rdate: Ignoring NTP server with alarm flag set
• 2260[19:26:27] <Kobaz> i tried setting orphan mode on ntpd.conf but that hasn't done it... been trying various things to force it to sync (the local time IS synced within a second or so of official ntp time)
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• 2269[19:36:25] <uio> Should 10.1 be more stable than 10.0?
• 2270[19:36:47] *** Joins: Xu95 (~Xu95@replaced-ip)
• 2271[19:36:48] <Habbie> uio, 10.1 should have a bunch of bugs fixed compared to 10.0; whether that helps you depends entirely on what problems you had or have
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• 2275[19:38:24] <uio> Habbie, Might there be new bugs like from 9.0 to 10.0?
• 2276[19:38:28] <greycat> Absolutely.
• 2277[19:38:30] *** Joins: flo2marsnet (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip)
• 2278[19:38:37] <Habbie> uio, oh yes
• 2279[19:38:42] <Habbie> uio, there might even be new bugs from 10.0 to 10.1
• 2280[19:38:46] <greycat> There is always some risk, however small.
• 2281[19:38:57] <Habbie> and bigger from 9.9 to 10.0
• 2282[19:39:00] <Habbie> than from 9.0 to 10.0
• 2283[19:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
• 2284[19:39:02] <Habbie> i'd say
• 2285[19:39:05] <Habbie> but it's anyone's guess
• 2286[19:39:18] <greycat> Habbie: I think uio is asking about 10.0 to 10.1
• 2287[19:39:48] <Habbie> oh, 'like from', misread that, sorry
• 2288[19:40:02] *** Quits: pugfantus (~pugfantus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2289[19:40:05] <uio> Habbie, Ooops I meant 9.9 to 10.0. I had some challenges with that upgrade (no sound....) and was just wondering if 10.0 to 10.1 would be smoother.
• 2290[19:40:16] <greycat> It *should* be.
• 2291[19:40:32] <uio> greycat, Okay. How'd it go for you?
• 2292[19:40:38] <greycat> no issues so far
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• 2295[19:40:48] <uio> greycat, Had you had any for 9.9 to 10.0?
• 2296[19:40:52] <greycat> Yup.
• 2297[19:41:20] <uio> greycat, Is there any real reason to go from 10.0 to 10.1 if all is working?
• 2298[19:41:31] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2299[19:41:44] <Habbie> uio, yes - security updates
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• 2305[19:43:13] <uio> Habbie, greycat Well, here goes.
• 2306[19:43:25] <uio> sudo apt-get upgrade?
• 2307[19:44:02] <greycat> there's a kernel ABI update, so you will need either "apt upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade"
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• 2310[19:45:17] <uio> Habbie, Aren't security updates automatic?
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• 2314[19:45:40] <Habbie> uio, if you enabled unattended-upgrades, perhaps
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• 2319[19:47:10] <uio> Habbie, I might just stick with that then, as kernel changes scare me a bit on this old machine.
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• 2323[19:47:42] <Habbie> uio, assuming there are no security updates for the kernel..
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• 2326[19:49:02] <SerajewelKS> jelly: i have one PV on the host and one PV on the guest
• 2327[19:49:28] <SerajewelKS> jelly: the problem is that i'm giving the guest an md-raid device as its root, well on reboot the host found the partitions on the md-raid device and activated the guest's volumes on the host
• 2328[19:49:36] <uio> sudo apt-get upgrade gave me 'W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/i915/bxt_dmc_ver1_07.bin for module i915'. Should I be worried?
• 2329[19:49:51] <SerajewelKS> jelly: so the fix is i need the host to probe to find its own PVs, but i don't want it finding or activating the guest's PVs
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• 2333[19:50:01] <uio> There were a bunch of other lines like that too...
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• 2335[19:50:06] *** Joins: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip)
• 2336[19:50:30] <Habbie> uio, i also get those lines, they don't worry me.. but i cannot judge for you
• 2337[19:50:34] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
• 2338[19:50:43] <greycat> I would recommend installing the relevant non-free firmware packages.
• 2339[19:50:56] <SerajewelKS> i'd like to be able to blacklist LVM probing by PV UUID
• 2340[19:51:07] <SerajewelKS> or even VG UUID
• 2341[19:51:18] <SerajewelKS> that way i can prevent the host from activating PVs belonging to the guest
• 2342[19:51:50] <uio> greycat, What does that firmware do?
• 2343[19:51:55] <greycat> !firmware
• 2344[19:51:56] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
• 2345[19:52:21] *** Quits: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2346[19:52:35] <uio> !search
• 2347[19:52:35] <dpkg> Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See replaced-url
• 2348[19:52:43] <uio> cool
• 2349[19:52:53] <uio> so I should look that up.
• 2350[19:53:12] *** Joins: Spr1ng_ (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip)
• 2351[19:53:18] <BCMM> uio: it's a warning, not an error. it's possible, for example, that that firmware is used by the i915 driver, but not with your particular hardware
• 2352[19:53:45] <greycat> it's also possible that your hardware can limp along without the firmware, possibly with reduced functionality, possibly with no visible symptoms
• 2353[19:53:50] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
• 2354[19:54:03] <greycat> but *generally* speaking, it's good to have it
• 2355[19:54:27] <BCMM> uio: that firmware is for intel graphic hardware, by the way
• 2356[19:54:55] *** Quits: DeaDSouL (~DeaDSouL@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2357[19:55:00] <uio> Hmmmm. Interesting.
• 2358[19:55:08] <Habbie> i get that warning because i use the nouveau driver and the nouveau driver supports cards for which i don't have the firmware installed
• 2359[19:55:13] <uio> BCMM, Sorry, but what does that do? Display?
• 2360[19:55:14] <Habbie> but i do have the firmware for -my- card installed from another package
• 2361[19:55:19] <Habbie> uio, yes
• 2362[19:55:24] <BCMM> uio: is this a desktop or laptop?
• 2363[19:55:38] <uio> My display is just fine right now... ThinkPad X61.
• 2364[19:55:52] <uio> Probably not worth installing I guess.
• 2365[19:56:14] <uio> Could this be why 'turn off screen after X minutes in XFCE' doesn't work though?
• 2366[19:56:15] <BCMM> uio: does opengl work without it?
• 2367[19:56:31] *** Quits: Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2368[19:56:35] <uio> BCMM, Sorry, I don't know what that does...
• 2369[19:57:01] <BCMM> uio: there is a pretty broad range of "display is just fine". just because it's at native resolution and the colours are ok doesn't mean it's fully working
• 2370[19:57:16] *** Quits: nitram (~nitram23@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2371[19:57:26] <BCMM> uio: for example, if hardware acceleration isn't working, scrolling might be choppy (it's not just for video games!)
• 2372[19:57:56] <MicroJoe> greycat: I have installed linux-headers-4.19.0-6-amd64 but it did not trigger dkms automatically
• 2373[19:58:08] <uio> BCMM, Okay, yeah I see. Well, aside from the not switching off after X minutes in XFCE I'm pretty good with it now, so I'll probably avoid the non-free stuff then.
• 2374[19:58:19] <MicroJoe> I can try to run dkms and reboot into 4.19.0-6 to see if this solves the passphrase issue
• 2375[19:58:27] <BCMM> uio: well, if you change your mind, bxt_dmc_ver1_07.bin is in the firmware-misc-nonfree package
• 2376[19:58:39] <uio> Okay. Upgraded to 10.1. Will reboot soon.
• 2377[19:58:52] *** Quits: Spr1ng_ (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2378[19:58:52] <uio> BCMM, Cool. I have to change the sources first, right?
• 2379[19:59:11] <BCMM> uio: i don't know much about intel graphics in particular, but be aware that some graphics hardware needs firmware to fully use power management features, i.e. it might drain the battery faster without it
• 2380[19:59:19] <BCMM> uio: yeah, it's in non-free
• 2381[19:59:21] <BCMM> !non-free
• 2382[19:59:21] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
• 2383[19:59:25] *** Quits: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2384[19:59:30] <uio> BCMM, That's why my battery is awful maybe!
• 2385[19:59:42] <uio> I get like 40 minutes with a new battery!
• 2386[20:00:00] <uio> !non-free sources
• 2387[20:00:00] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
• 2388[20:00:11] <BCMM> could be lack of proper power management, or it could be a lot of work being done on the CPU when the GPU could do it more cheaply
• 2389[20:00:15] <uio> I'll add that.
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• 2393[20:01:09] <uio> So I change deb replaced-url
• 2394[20:01:14] *** Joins: Xu95 (~Xu95@replaced-ip)
• 2395[20:01:18] <uio> and deb replaced-url
• 2396[20:01:23] <uio> But not the deb-src?
• 2397[20:01:48] <BCMM> uio: it's also worth noting that using non-free firmware doesn't involve running any non-free kernel or userspace software. this is strictly the software that runs on the hardware device itself
• 2398[20:02:11] <uio> BCMM, So less risks?
• 2399[20:02:24] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2400[20:02:27] <BCMM> it's more that your CPU *already* has non-free firmware baked in to it - it's not open-source hardware!
• 2401[20:02:45] <uio> BCMM, Are these 'blobs'?
• 2402[20:02:50] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip)
• 2403[20:02:56] <BCMM> uio: yes
• 2404[20:03:10] <uio> BCMM, Okay, cool. Are those lines good then?
• 2405[20:03:18] <uio> The right ones, I mean?
• 2406[20:03:19] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2407[20:03:26] <BCMM> uio: the only substantial difference with this blob is that it has to be loaded by the driver from disk during bootup, instead of loaded by the hardware from a built-in ROM
• 2408[20:03:42] <BCMM> just add non-free after main, yes
• 2409[20:04:05] <BCMM> you don't need to add -src lines unless you're interested in building your own firmware packages
• 2410[20:04:11] <greycat> contrib too.
• 2411[20:04:21] *** Joins: Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip)
• 2412[20:04:42] <uio> BCMM, So all four instances of 'main' in the 'deb' lines become 'main contrib non-free'?
• 2413[20:04:49] *** Quits: ralala (~marcel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2414[20:05:01] <BCMM> i haven't seen your full sources.list but that sounds about right
• 2415[20:05:08] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip)
• 2416[20:05:16] <BCMM> while you're installing non-free blobs, you might want to look at intel-microcode
• 2417[20:05:22] <uio> BCMM, greycat Cool thanks.
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• 2419[20:05:28] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2420[20:05:30] <kshysio> hello
• 2421[20:05:39] <kshysio> guys
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• 2425[20:07:26] <Xu95> Hello
• 2426[20:07:58] *** Joins: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip)
• 2427[20:07:59] <uio> Do I have to update the source file somehow after changes? I'm getting an error return with sudo apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree
• 2428[20:08:08] <greycat> apt-get update
• 2429[20:08:28] <uio> greycat, Thanks.
• 2430[20:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1569
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• 2438[20:12:36] <Akuw_> i have this in a log - ID = 03 13 A3 49 (hex) how can i convert to decimal
• 2439[20:12:44] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2440[20:13:05] <greycat> is it supposed to be one large integer, or 4 small ones, or what? what's an "ID"?
• 2441[20:13:28] <Xu95> Akuw_, we need more info
• 2442[20:13:40] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip) (Quit: format_c)
• 2443[20:13:42] <Akuw_> that is the line
• 2444[20:13:49] <greycat> my immediate thought is an IPv4 address, but the first octet being 3 kinda makes that unlikely
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• 2446[20:14:23] <greycat> Akuw_: give us an example of an "ID" in the form you wish to see
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• 2448[20:14:49] <Habbie> 73.163.19.3.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ec2-3-19-163-73.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com.
• 2449[20:15:12] <greycat> oh, fracking amazon AWS crap
• 2450[20:15:15] <Habbie> '3' is a perfectly fine likely first octet for an IPv4 address these days
• 2451[20:15:26] <greycat> so it actually *could* be an IPv4
• 2452[20:15:34] <Habbie> yes, but it would still be very much a guess
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• 2455[20:17:28] <humpled> it's the number between ...com.ec and .us-east-2...
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• 2459[20:18:05] <greycat> only if Akuw_ confirms that yes, it's supposed to be an IP address
• 2460[20:18:14] <greycat> at this point we're still speculating and waiting for a response
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• 2462[20:18:52] <humpled> oh didn't realise they were diffent people sorry :þ
• 2463[20:18:56] <Akuw_> no
• 2464[20:19:00] <Akuw_> is not IP
• 2465[20:19:10] <greycat> Then what answer are you looking for?
• 2466[20:19:14] <Xu95> for all we know, we are doing his math homework
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• 2468[20:19:58] <Akuw_> is a passage ID, is a custom log
• 2469[20:20:10] <greycat> you need to tell us what the answer should look like
• 2470[20:20:27] <greycat> there are MANY different ways to convert 4 small hex numbers to base 10
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• 2473[20:21:16] <Akuw_> i just need to convert to decimal
• 2474[20:21:18] <Akuw_> just that
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• 2476[20:21:35] <Akuw_> 51618633
• 2477[20:21:38] <Akuw_> this ?
• 2478[20:21:54] <greycat> wooledg:~$ echo $((0x0313a349))
• 2479[20:21:54] <greycat> 51618633
• 2480[20:22:08] <greycat> yes, that is one of the possible ways
• 2481[20:22:19] <greycat> that one is called "big endian"
• 2482[20:22:26] <Xu95> I got the same result
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• 2486[20:25:12] <greycat> for the record, "little endian" looks like this
• 2487[20:25:12] <greycat> wooledg:~$ echo $((0x49a31303))
• 2488[20:25:13] <greycat> 1235424003
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• 2493[20:26:16] <greycat> and you've seen "dotted quad" already, but for the record, a dotted quad conversion would be 3.19.163.73
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• 2498[20:27:19] <humpled> bit of a coincidence if that's not the answer
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• 2500[20:27:52] <MicroJoe> so, installing linux-headers-4.19.0-6-amd64 did not trigger dkms nor fix this cryptsetup passphrase issue for 4.19.0-6 after upgrade
• 2501[20:28:06] <MicroJoe> still booting on 4.19.0-5
• 2502[20:28:18] <greycat> cryptsetup... is that the one that was officially no longer supported in buster?
• 2503[20:28:50] <MicroJoe> oh… I mean, I used the installer stuff, I guess it is cryptsetup/LVM combo
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• 2506[20:29:49] <MicroJoe> but whatever the name of this thing did broke during 10.0 -> 10.1 migration and new kernel image
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• 2508[20:31:09] <greycat> Hmm, no, cryptsetup does have a section in the release notes, but it's not the one that's been dropped. I can't remember the names of these things, because I don't use them.
• 2509[20:31:10] <MicroJoe> greycat: you said installing the headers would trigger dkms, it did not. I do not have dkms installed at all so no custom stuff
• 2510[20:31:12] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2511[20:31:30] <greycat> MicroJoe: I said *if* it's done with a kernel module, but that was just me guessing at a possible reason.
• 2512[20:31:47] <MicroJoe> oh I see, thanks for the try
• 2513[20:32:30] <MicroJoe> maybe I should compile my own kernel and just print back the read string to see what is going on… printk debugging for life
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• 2638[21:57:28] <MicroJoe> woohoo greycat, I solved my issue ! it was all about layout. so I installed the distro using one layout, then switched to another layout using console-setup after installation
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• 2643[21:58:29] <MicroJoe> the 1st kernel installed by the live usb was still using the old layout, but the very new kernel seems to take into account console-setup correctly and uses the last layout that I was already able to use in ttys, but not in cryptsetup passphrase
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• 2646[21:59:03] <MicroJoe> not sure if it is the kernel or the ramimage, but something like this
• 2647[21:59:11] <MicroJoe> thanks for the advices though, bug solved
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• 2701[22:25:21] <dokma> My /etc/motd is dated 4/6/2006. Is that a good bet for when I first installed Debian on my desktop? A few other files in /etc are dated the same.
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• 2718[22:38:26] <xaeB5> a program from github i need is trying to download and compile some packages and it's failing but i don't understand these errors. does debian stable come with rust? anyone understand this?: replaced-url
• 2719[22:38:54] <greycat> ,v rustc
• 2720[22:38:55] <judd> Package: rustc on amd64 -- jessie-security: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb8u4; stretch: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u4; bullseye: 1.34.2+dfsg1-1; buster: 1.34.2+dfsg1-1; sid: 1.36.0+dfsg1-2
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• 2730[22:45:52] <CarlFK> im trying to build a vanilla kernel (so that I can see if a patch still applies) and now I'm bumping into: No rule to make target 'debian/certs/benh@debian.org.cert.pem' ... I see it addressed here:
• 2731[22:45:56] <CarlFK> replaced-url
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• 2734[22:46:33] <CarlFK> "Should I remove CONFIG_SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYS from .config ... yes... kernel configuration should be based on the appropriate file provided in linux-source-4.5."
• 2735[22:46:38] <CarlFK> where/how do I do that /?
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• 2740[22:48:55] <somiaj> why are you using linux-source-4.5? That seems like a strange source?
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• 2743[22:49:43] <CarlFK> I'm not - that's an old post that has my same error
• 2744[22:49:53] <somiaj> ahh, sorry missed that.
• 2745[22:50:33] <somiaj> so where did you get this kernel you are patching then building?
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• 2748[22:50:59] <CarlFK> git clone --depth 1 git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git
• 2749[22:51:51] <CarlFK> and I don't think I've patched it yet (tried, pathc failed, git diff didn't show any diffs)
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• 2753[22:53:41] <CarlFK> im trying to do this (again. on a fresh box) replaced-url
• 2754[22:53:42] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2755[22:53:43] <somiaj> And where did you get the .config file you are using? From debian?
• 2756[22:54:05] <CarlFK> cp /boot/config-`uname -r` .config
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• 2758[22:54:22] <somiaj> It sounds like the problem is using a debian .config (which might require debian patches) on the current source from linus
• 2759[22:54:33] <somiaj> yea, that is probably the issue, you are missing all the debian patches
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• 2761[22:55:15] <CarlFK> where can I find vanilla .config?
• 2762[22:55:29] <somiaj> make menuconfig and build your own
• 2763[22:55:47] <CarlFK> that's not very vanilla :p
• 2764[22:55:47] <somiaj> or grab a version with debian patches
• 2765[22:55:54] <somiaj> ,v linux-source-4.19
• 2766[22:55:55] <judd> Package: linux-source-4.19 on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19.37-5+deb10u2; bullseye: 4.19.37-6; sid: 4.19.37-6; buster: 4.19.67-2
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• 2768[22:56:07] <somiaj> the vanilla kernel doesn't come with aconfig, since there is so much variety
• 2769[22:56:18] <somiaj> but that package will install the source + debian patches on your machine you can build from
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• 2771[22:57:04] <CarlFK> the goal here is to confirm a patch still applies cleanly - im a little hesitant to add other patches
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• 2779[23:00:23] <CarlFK> this looks promising: make defconfig ; *** Default configuration is based on 'x86_64_defconfig'
• 2780[23:00:31] <somiaj> CarlFK: then you might have to make your own config
• 2781[23:00:38] <somiaj> did you run 'make oldconfig' after coppying the debian config?
• 2782[23:00:53] <CarlFK> yes
• 2783[23:01:25] <somiaj> yea, you either rhave to fix the config options that requirie debian patches or make your own
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• 2787[23:02:50] <CarlFK> that seems to be working - it didn't error yet.
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• 2791[23:04:32] <CarlFK> is there a util to adjust .config? (other than sed.. )
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• 2793[23:04:42] <somiaj> make menuconfig
• 2794[23:04:53] <somiaj> that should give you a curses gui you can select options
• 2795[23:04:56] <CarlFK> I mean something I can script
• 2796[23:05:08] <CarlFK> so that in 6 months when I am doing this again I don't have to figure things out again
• 2797[23:05:08] <nkuttler> script?
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• 2800[23:05:25] <CarlFK> basically sed for this task
• 2801[23:05:25] <nkuttler> so.. keep a backup? and make oldconfig
• 2802[23:06:08] <CarlFK> then in 3 years someone will ask why I am using a 3 year old config :p
• 2803[23:08:13] <ratrace> CarlFK: either you sed it or you use an editor and type it manually, or use menuconfig, there really isn't any other possibility.
• 2804[23:08:24] <somiaj> you also might want to just try to make your patch work on debian kernels, then you can just use debian configs
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• 2807[23:09:23] <CarlFK> im guessing that will make upstream grumpy
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• 2809[23:10:03] <CarlFK> the goal is to verify it applies, not use it personally
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• 2811[23:10:35] <somiaj> well applies vs builds are two different things
• 2812[23:10:42] <somiaj> applies is just patch -p1 < patch and check for fuzz
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• 2819[23:16:10] <CarlFK> noooooo!!!! git apply ../../vizzini.patch ... error: patch failed: Makefile:2
• 2820[23:16:10] <CarlFK>
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• 2825[23:19:53] <SerajewelKS> jelly: btw what i wound up doing was using the lvm global_filter to match |^/dev/md|
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• 2829[23:20:16] <SerajewelKS> jelly: all of the host's PVs are inside of luks, so there's no reason for the host to be probing md-raid devices at all
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• 2831[23:22:02] <CtrlC> hello folks, I have a stretch that I want to upgrade to buster, I changed the source list and all. now trying to upgrade, it tells me a package of mine have unmet deps. "inetutils-ping : Conflicts: ping"
• 2832[23:22:07] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2833[23:22:07] <CtrlC> what should I do exactly?
• 2834[23:22:24] <CtrlC> I tried --reinstall but still the same.
• 2835[23:23:05] *** Joins: The`Unforgiven (~BHT@replaced-ip)
• 2836[23:23:40] <SerajewelKS> CtrlC: ping isn't a debian package. can you pastebin these commands? (1) apt-cache show ping (2) apt-cache policy ping (3) apt-cache policy
• 2837[23:23:41] <karlpinc> CtrlC: What you should do is follow the upgrade instructions in the release notes.
• 2838[23:23:51] <jh001_> CtrlC: apt remove inetutils-ping, re-install it after if needed
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• 2840[23:24:52] <CtrlC> SerajewelKS, N: Can't select versions from package 'ping' as it is purely virtual
• 2841[23:25:48] <somiaj> ,v inetutils-ping
• 2842[23:25:50] <CtrlC> SerajewelKS, policy returns none
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• 2844[23:25:56] <SerajewelKS> it sounds like you have some package installed that provides ping, other than inetutils-ping, but as part of the upgrade something wants inetutils-ping
• 2845[23:25:57] <somiaj> ,v inetutils-ping
• 2846[23:25:58] <judd> Package: inetutils-ping on amd64 -- jessie: 2:1.9.2.39.3a460-3; stretch: 2:1.9.4-2+b1; buster: 2:1.9.4-7; bullseye: 2:1.9.4-10; sid: 2:1.9.4-10
• 2847[23:26:14] <somiaj> !bat
• 2848[23:26:15] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 2849[23:26:32] <somiaj> CtrlC: ^^ we need info from you, it sounds like you are mixing debian based distros
• 2850[23:27:01] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2851[23:27:08] <SerajewelKS> CtrlC: if you have aptitude installed, run this and show us the results: aptitude search '~Pping'
• 2852[23:27:09] <CtrlC> SerajewelKS, replaced-url
• 2853[23:27:28] <CtrlC> somiaj, what do you need exactly?
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• 2857[23:27:56] <CtrlC> SerajewelKS, installing it now
• 2858[23:28:10] <CtrlC> jh001_, ain't that the same as using --reinstall?
• 2859[23:28:19] <jmcnaught> On all my systems I seem to have iputils-ping installed instead of inetutils-ping.
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• 2861[23:28:33] <SerajewelKS> CtrlC: he means install it _after_ the upgrade
• 2862[23:28:45] <CtrlC> is it safe to uninstall?
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• 2864[23:29:01] <CtrlC> I don't know what that is so idk
• 2865[23:29:08] <SerajewelKS> it's the ping command-line tool
• 2866[23:29:25] <CtrlC> oh might cause issues I guess. no?
• 2867[23:30:13] <jh001_> CtrlC: yes SerajewelKS is correct, install it after your upgrade. and yes, it is safe to uninstall.
• 2868[23:30:29] <CtrlC> oh cool then. trying that
• 2869[23:31:20] <CtrlC> jmcnaught, what's the difference?
• 2870[23:31:46] <CtrlC> aptitude is taking forever to finish installing. :(
• 2871[23:34:30] <CtrlC> it seems to be some i386 sort of thing
• 2872[23:34:55] *** Quits: leandrovianna_ (~leandrovi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2873[23:34:59] <CtrlC> anyway, the upgrade seems to work now. thanks guys
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• 2875[23:35:26] <CtrlC> tell me the python version is at least 3.6 please. :D
• 2876[23:35:51] <humpled> you could read the notes
• 2877[23:36:01] <somiaj> ,v python3
• 2878[23:36:03] <judd> Package: python3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; bullseye: 3.7.3-1; buster: 3.7.3-1; sid: 3.7.3-1
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• 2883[23:39:03] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1547
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• 2885[23:39:20] <CtrlC> What's the thing with the limit?
• 2886[23:39:21] *** Quits: whislock (~whislock@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2887[23:39:38] <CtrlC> why do the bot do that?
• 2888[23:39:44] <somiaj> the limit?
• 2889[23:39:51] <CtrlC> "* debhelper sets channel limit to 1547"
• 2890[23:40:03] <somiaj> oh that is to prevent mass or flood joins
• 2891[23:40:18] <somiaj> the bot keeps adjusting, so as long as 5+ people don't join in the same few seconds it is fine
• 2892[23:40:26] <CtrlC> ah I see
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• 2907[23:57:23] <praxis> what's the most suthoritive reference i can have for the release date of a debian distribution?
• 2908[23:57:38] <somiaj> !wir
• 2909[23:57:38] <dpkg> wir is probably When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>.
• 2910[23:57:59] <annadane> it's basically every 2 years
• 2911[23:58:08] <somiaj> debian release on that time schedule. Usually the freeze (transition/soft/hard) are listed a few months before the initial freee
• 2912[23:58:10] <annadane> expect bullseye in summer of 2021 sometime
• 2913[23:58:15] <somiaj> final release date is often only a few weeks before
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• 2915[23:58:43] <somiaj> but you probably want the debian-annouce mailing list, I think all of this gets annouced through there
• ↑top