People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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30 [00:09:57] <annadane> ugh
31 [00:10:05] <annadane> pulseaudio just does not work with flatpak in openbox
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34 [00:10:08] <annadane> i don't get it
35 [00:10:25] <annadane> and no i'm not asking for support, just venting, sorry
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47 [00:12:32] <bandali> i wish more people knew about and used better solutions like guix rather than settling for things like docker or flatpak
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57 [00:15:04] <annadane> any specific reasons?
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68 [00:17:24] <bandali> a ton :p
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70 [00:17:57] <bandali> i highly recommend checking out Guix and learning about it yourself :) i probably wouldn’t be able to do it justice trying to explain it here
71 [00:18:08] <annadane> i know what guix, the OS, is
72 [00:18:13] <annadane> less so about the package manager
73 [00:18:28] <annadane> there's the nixos package manager, but i just use flatpak because the one thing i use it for is there
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79 [00:19:22] <bandali> right
80 [00:19:28] <bandali> Guix has similar ideas to Nix
81 [00:19:39] <bandali> in fact iirc it started as a fork of Nix
82 [00:19:50] <bandali> and still includes some bits of Nix code
83 [00:19:58] <annadane> i don't get sound issues with flatpak using xfce, just openbox
84 [00:20:06] <annadane> so i don't know if it's flatpak's fault or not
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87 [00:20:38] <annadane> concerning guix it's from GNU so i presume it's quite difficult to get proprietary things installed like microcode or nvidia drivers
88 [00:20:38] <bandali> but indeed, perhaps the main attraction of flatpak or docker are their widespread adoption and huge set of packages
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91 [00:21:03] <bandali> that is true :) i’m happy to keep proprietary software out of my computer though ;)
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93 [00:21:18] <annadane> yeah i am too in principle but i need my computer to actually be able to do stuff
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97 [00:22:03] <bandali> sure. the alternative is looking for hardware that doesn’t require proprietary drivers to run
98 [00:22:16] <bandali> ThinkPads are great (typing from an X200)
99 [00:22:30] <bandali> you can even libreboot older ones
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102 [00:22:52] <annadane> well i bought my computer before i really knew the difference
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109 [00:23:18] <annadane> also i really want a desktop, not a laptop, so thinkpads are kind of out for me
110 [00:23:24] <bandali> i feel ya, no worries :)
111 [00:23:33] <bandali> i’m just spreading the gospel of guix a bit :p
112 [00:23:42] <bandali> (hopefully channel ops are asleep hehe)
113 [00:24:05] <bandali> fsf has a list of Respects Your Freedom (RYF) hardware
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116 [00:24:31] <annadane> right, i know that now
117 [00:24:32] <bandali> in practice it should be easier to achieve freedom on desktops, since you’re not locked into the OEM hardwares as much as you would be on modern laptops
118 [00:24:36] <annadane> not at the time
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121 [00:25:35] <bandali> right
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186 [00:46:25] <jhutchins> I've had really good luck with refurbs from MicroCenter. Less than $400 will get you a decent office desktop.
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190 [00:46:39] <jhutchins> It won't be a bragging-rights gaming box, but it'll run the basics.
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199 [00:49:12] <annadane> moore's law also implies "bragging rights" get less important with each passing year anyway
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205 [00:49:32] <annadane> i don't run, like, no man's sky or whatever the current hardware intensive games are known as
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208 [00:49:47] <annadane> but pc's are increasingly more capable
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242 [00:55:09] <jhutchins> There are still $3k rigs out there.
243 [00:55:41] <annadane> yeah, which i'm not interested in. but i'll gladly pay for cores and RAM
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442 [01:55:25] <grkblood13> I'm mucking around with a rock64 board right now and the manufacture of the cpu has extensive git repos but very little support. One of the things it has a repo for is "rk-rootfs-build", which apparently builds a debian rootfs image. can someone explain to me what exactly this is? I've tried writing it to an SD card and loading it on my board but it does nothing.
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446 [01:57:04] <grkblood13> The contents of these images appear to resemble a linux filesystem but they dont seem to work by themselves.
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450 [01:57:48] <SerajewelKS> grkblood13: not sure if this answers your question: replaced-url
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457 [02:00:22] <grkblood13> how does building this rootfs image help me get to an install-able image of an operating system that I can load onto an SD card and expect to boot?
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460 [02:00:40] <grkblood13> because thats what I want to do
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495 [02:09:55] <SerajewelKS> grkblood13: i don't think you can just boot directly from a rootfs. i think you need a /boot partition with a kernel, and you also need to install a bootloader to the device MBR
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517 [02:20:41] <CrystalMath> umm, this might be a weird question but
518 [02:20:49] <CrystalMath> what was the DHCP utilitiy called in debian 1.1?
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579 [02:51:31] <tr4ck3ur> @ Christal => replaced-url
580 [02:52:29] <tr4ck3ur> Have fun with a question, +1 :
581 [02:52:31] <tr4ck3ur> :)
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602 [03:01:56] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: ouch
603 [03:02:03] <CrystalMath> what was the DHCP client people used back then?
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609 [03:06:11] <CrystalMath> trouble is, i can't install any packages since i can't connect to the internet...
610 [03:06:27] <CrystalMath> the network card works, but QEMU really wants the guest to use DHCP for SLIRP
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613 [03:06:55] <CrystalMath> so i can't get the compiler :/
614 [03:07:07] <CrystalMath> gosh, this is so much harder than i thought it will be
615 [03:07:27] <CrystalMath> i want to say it, so i will: not including a DHCP client was extremely unprofessional of the debian project
616 [03:07:44] <CrystalMath> (just to be clear, i'm talking about 23 years ago)
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628 [03:16:14] <tr4ck3ur> understood, but yes it was 1996
629 [03:17:19] <tr4ck3ur> sorry, bad english, late in the night
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632 [03:17:42] <tr4ck3ur> i would try without dhcp :)
633 [03:18:30] <CrystalMath> not sure how i could do that in qemu
634 [03:18:41] <dalao> I replace a image of grub background , how to specify not to scale, stretch, that's ugly
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637 [03:19:45] <tr4ck3ur> you route your VM through software router, you do like any router i would say
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640 [03:20:41] <tr4ck3ur> so without using DHCP that will work, just try to convince your gateway :p
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643 [03:24:22] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: this is qemu's -netdev user (the only way that works)
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645 [03:25:50] <CrystalMath> i will try to somehow route
646 [03:25:52] <tr4ck3ur> sure, replaced-url
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650 [03:28:19] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: okay i used ifconfig
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652 [03:28:31] <tr4ck3ur> personally i use something like ... -net nic -netdev tap,ifname=tap0,id=mynet1,script=no -device rtl8139,netdev=mynet1,mac=aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff
653 [03:28:39] <CrystalMath> nope, cannot use tap
654 [03:28:44] <tr4ck3ur> ah
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657 [03:28:55] <CrystalMath> unless i can somehow create a NAT
658 [03:29:04] <CrystalMath> but there has to be another NAT layer
659 [03:29:34] <CrystalMath> generally, that's such a hassle that i will simply not bother
660 [03:29:39] <CrystalMath> it has to be -netdev user
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662 [03:30:35] <tr4ck3ur> hum, not checked that way on my side, so yes, ok
663 [03:30:52] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: so, i configured the address to be 10.0.2.15 (as netdev user expects), the netmask to be 255.255.255.0, broadcast 10.0.2.255
664 [03:30:58] <CrystalMath> now i just need to route
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666 [03:31:47] <CrystalMath> SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable
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668 [03:33:07] <tr4ck3ur> did you check your interface is up, but ... wait, you just say me you don't use tap
669 [03:33:16] <CrystalMath> i must use netdev user
670 [03:33:18] <tr4ck3ur> i'm a bit lost sorry
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672 [03:34:28] <tr4ck3ur> like pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user luna
673 [03:34:43] <tr4ck3ur> in /etc/network/interfaces
674 [03:35:03] <tr4ck3ur> it's tap with a defined user
675 [03:35:27] <tr4ck3ur> i think i'm lost with "netdev user"
676 [03:35:34] <CrystalMath> no, i can't connect to my outer network with more than one IP
677 [03:35:40] <CrystalMath> from this machine
678 [03:35:52] <CrystalMath> i have to do some kind of NAT
679 [03:35:55] <tr4ck3ur> but it's only your bridge IP
680 [03:36:10] <tr4ck3ur> hum
681 [03:36:12] <CrystalMath> i can't ask my router for another address (nor is such a thing possible0
682 [03:36:18] <tr4ck3ur> ah ok
683 [03:36:27] <CrystalMath> so no, this computer must virtualize all networks
684 [03:36:37] <CrystalMath> honestly i don't understand why people don't virtualize networks more
685 [03:36:42] <CrystalMath> why use the kernel stuff?
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687 [03:36:49] <CrystalMath> i would always prefer usermode
688 [03:37:08] <CrystalMath> personally i think not enough software does the same as QEMU's SLIRP
689 [03:37:15] <tr4ck3ur> hum, you are right on that point
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691 [03:37:49] <CrystalMath> i will try one day, to make a fully virtual telephone exchange
692 [03:37:54] <CrystalMath> over which i will fully virtualize modems
693 [03:37:58] <CrystalMath> connecting over dialup :)
694 [03:38:00] <CrystalMath> one day...
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696 [03:39:42] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: back in ~2002
697 [03:39:44] <tr4ck3ur> so what would be the answer, you need to NAT the stuff at some point
698 [03:39:46] <CrystalMath> we had a dial-up provider
699 [03:39:54] <CrystalMath> and it also required DHCP
700 [03:40:01] <CrystalMath> Windows 95C (from 1996)
701 [03:40:03] <CrystalMath> that i had
702 [03:40:05] <CrystalMath> had DHCP support
703 [03:40:15] <CrystalMath> DHCP is not something one can just skip....
704 [03:40:21] <CrystalMath> it is absolutely integral to the internet
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706 [03:42:04] <CrystalMath> so i honestly can't believe one could claim to have networking support but not include DHCP...
707 [03:42:40] <tr4ck3ur> sure, that's depend on which network you want to go :)
708 [03:43:04] <CrystalMath> hmm, i suppose maybe not too many people used debian as a home OS
709 [03:43:19] <CrystalMath> sigh, i guess i will have to download all the packages
710 [03:43:21] <CrystalMath> from the archive
711 [03:43:23] <CrystalMath> and put them on a CD
712 [03:43:29] <CrystalMath> then pick the "cdrom"
713 [03:43:33] <CrystalMath> source for dselect
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715 [03:44:04] <CrystalMath> then install a compiler
716 [03:44:07] <CrystalMath> and compile udhcpc
717 [03:44:11] <tr4ck3ur> ok ok, but you mean that your "home box" works only on DHCP
718 [03:44:25] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: yes, and many dialup services required DHCP
719 [03:44:53] <CrystalMath> so even back in the day, skipping DHCP was bad
720 [03:44:58] <tr4ck3ur> no need DHCP to have a debian installer working :p
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723 [03:45:18] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: well it was required for internet access :(
724 [03:45:40] <CrystalMath> but oh well, i can't change the past
725 [03:45:44] <CrystalMath> i can't fix debian 1.1
726 [03:45:49] <CrystalMath> :P
727 [03:45:54] <tr4ck3ur> but yes, you are right with a service you pay every month
728 [03:46:05] <CrystalMath> oh, we paid for it over the phone line
729 [03:46:09] <CrystalMath> no account was necessary
730 [03:46:22] <CrystalMath> it just added an additional cost to the phone bill
731 [03:46:32] <CrystalMath> the username and password were just "guest"
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733 [03:47:04] <tr4ck3ur> in my country we have dedicated pay bill for this service, no phone anymore, it's VoIP
734 [03:47:18] <Ninja80> hola a todos
735 [03:47:39] <tr4ck3ur> aloa
736 [03:47:43] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: well i'm talking about 2002/2003 :P
737 [03:47:47] <tr4ck3ur> ah ok
738 [03:48:11] <tr4ck3ur> just have to go back 30 years
739 [03:48:13] <Ninja80> alguien me puede ayudar con ninja-ide en ubuntu18.04? ya lo tengo instalado pero no levanta la interface grafica
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741 [03:48:31] <tr4ck3ur> 20 at least
742 [03:49:32] <coruja> !ubuntu
743 [03:49:32] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
744 [03:49:54] <coruja> Ninja80, ^
745 [03:50:12] <Ninja80> gracias de todas maneras
746 [03:51:15] <tr4ck3ur> CrystalMath, you are running your qemu on recent platform isn't it ?
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749 [03:54:27] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: yes
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751 [03:55:09] <CrystalMath> tr4ck3ur: it's running on debian buster :)
752 [03:55:16] *** Quits: beaver^ (~beaver@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
753 [03:55:24] <CrystalMath> and i'm very happy with debian buster, though DHCP isn't needed on the host :P
754 [03:55:34] <CrystalMath> there is only one IP it can connect to :P
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756 [03:55:43] <CrystalMath> i mean, connect as
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758 [03:56:59] <tr4ck3ur> aggree on that. i see your point one connectivity issue with qemu, but i think i can't help.
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762 [03:58:15] <CrystalMath> yeah the only way is to install a compiler
763 [03:58:16] <CrystalMath> in buzz
764 [03:58:22] <CrystalMath> and compile udhcpc
765 [03:58:38] <CrystalMath> then i can use udhcpc to configure the network :)
766 [04:00:06] <tr4ck3ur> by the way, yes
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769 [04:00:46] <tr4ck3ur> i still don't get your issue with only one ip
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771 [04:01:49] <CrystalMath> well my computer must forward
772 [04:01:51] <CrystalMath> the packets
773 [04:01:54] <CrystalMath> for all the virtual machines
774 [04:01:57] <CrystalMath> it can't bridge
775 [04:02:06] <CrystalMath> i must NAT them
776 [04:02:16] <CrystalMath> either with a NAT bridge
777 [04:02:16] <tr4ck3ur> so the DHCP won't help
778 [04:02:22] <CrystalMath> no, DHCP would help
779 [04:02:24] <CrystalMath> because
780 [04:02:26] <CrystalMath> qemu can NAT
781 [04:02:29] <CrystalMath> with netdev user
782 [04:02:36] <CrystalMath> netdev user makes things 100000x easier
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784 [04:02:49] <CrystalMath> and quite frankly i WANT netdev user
785 [04:03:00] <CrystalMath> i used to have a locally created NAT
786 [04:03:10] <CrystalMath> for lxc containers
787 [04:03:13] <CrystalMath> and it was always hell to set up
788 [04:03:33] <tr4ck3ur> yes, sure
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790 [04:04:05] <CrystalMath> netdev user is what i need
791 [04:04:09] <CrystalMath> but it requires DHCP
792 [04:04:10] <tr4ck3ur> ok, thanks, i should qlso try that way to connect
793 [04:04:14] <tr4ck3ur> also*
794 [04:04:26] <CrystalMath> i even managed to connect MS-DOS :P
795 [04:04:30] <CrystalMath> because it has a DHCP client XD
796 [04:04:35] <CrystalMath> but buzz i can't :(
797 [04:05:19] <mmebsd> there is upgrade?
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801 [04:06:16] <bandali> 10.1 and 9.10 were released today
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825 [04:22:37] <metbsd> so how do i upgrade to 10.1
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828 [04:25:50] <dbucklin> I found /msg dpkg stretch->buster to be informative
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832 [04:29:22] <coruja> metbsd, if running buster, you only need to do 'apt upgrade' like you do regularly
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901 [05:54:34] <OS-50632> !leftturn
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956 [07:24:32] <kreyren> What is the debian way to get python 3.6
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962 [07:26:29] <kreyren> ~~don't make me ask on #debian-next replaced-url
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966 [07:29:10] <jim> did debian ever have a package 'highlighterkit' (related to gnustep)?
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970 [07:30:08] <kreyren> ,v highlighterkit
971 [07:30:09] <judd> No package named 'highlighterkit' was found in amd64.
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983 [07:57:18] <jim> kreyren, yeah, already checked that, but I've seen things that suggest it might have been present
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985 [07:57:29] <jim> like in wheezy
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988 [07:58:33] <dadinn> hi all
989 [07:58:43] <jim> hi
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991 [07:59:29] <dadinn> I am trying to figure out how to configure spindown/standby features of hard-drives. The issue I have is that neither -S, nor -B flags seem to work. The -S option I am able to set the 5 or 20 second spindown time, but nothing happens. The -B option doesn't seem to be supported on my hard-drives at all, it says "APM_level = not supported".
992 [07:59:34] <dadinn> OTOH, if I use hdparm -y the hdd goes to standby immediately, so I suppose the feature is supported I am just not using the correct command.
993 [07:59:37] <dadinn> I've looked at this Arch wiki so far: replaced-url
994 [08:04:38] <Voldenet> fwiw: on wd green disks there used to be this problem, that they parked themselves after 8 seconds and there was no option to change this
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997 [08:08:27] <Voldenet> well, there was, but it wasn't really an official one: replaced-url
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999 [08:09:41] <Voldenet> Obviously, those disks were very resistant to any hdparm commands
1000 [08:11:23] <dadinn> Voldenet: I think hdparm has a -J option specifically for WD green disks ;)
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1007 [08:26:35] <Voldenet> Yes, it's hacky, and basically using the same method. Also, modern disks have features like background medium scan
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1009 [08:27:30] <Voldenet> so it may really depend on the hardware used
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1023 [08:48:18] <dutchfish> Hi, i believe this is a bug in Debian 10.1, hdparm version v9.58, anyone can confirm this? sudo hdparm -I /dev/nvme0n1p4 | grep TRIM | HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device.
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1027 [08:52:00] <Voldenet> dutchfish: from the manpage `hdparm - get/set SATA/IDE device parameters`
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1030 [08:55:35] <Voldenet> dutchfish: debian has nvme-cli, which may be what you're looking for
1031 [08:57:03] <dutchfish> Voldenet, scrugh. And how does Debian 10.1 do trimming then?
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1033 [08:57:43] <Voldenet> That I don't know, maybe someone who knows will show up
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1036 [08:58:46] <dutchfish> Voldenet, i ask this, because another distro hdparm can handle trim.
1037 [08:59:01] <dutchfish> i am confused now
1038 [08:59:48] <dutchfish> Voldenet, thanks for the info. I will delve further into it.
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1049 [09:03:28] <Voldenet> If it works somewhere else, then maybe newer versions learned how to operate on nvme
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1054 [09:10:05] <dutchfish> Voldenet, this is the output of my searches so far, nothing about the trim feature. replaced-url
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1057 [09:13:42] <dutchfish> Voldenet, i dont believe SMART handle this?
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1074 [09:25:59] <dutchfish> Voldenet, i know i can dot it manually like so replaced-url
1075 [09:27:02] <dutchfish> Voldenet, thanks again
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1128 [10:08:46] <Giverny> guys
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1132 [10:09:38] <Giverny> nftables.service - nftables
1133 [10:09:38] <Giverny> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nftables.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
1134 [10:09:38] <Giverny> Active: active (exited) since Sun 2019-09-08 05:00:36 -03; 2s ago
1135 [10:09:38] <Giverny> Docs: man:nft(8)
1136 [10:10:05] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
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1141 [10:12:20] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
1142 [10:12:22] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
1143 [10:12:22] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
1144 [10:12:23] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
1145 [10:12:23] <Giverny> why my nftables dont go?
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1154 [10:18:02] <Burek> lol
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1173 [10:36:22] <astra> i'm still a bit bewildered by the modprobe thingy
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1175 [10:37:09] <astra> thought it came with the kmod packages, not sure
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1216 [11:05:52] <gunix> ,v firefox
1217 [11:05:53] <judd> Package: firefox on amd64 -- sid: 68.0.2-3
1218 [11:06:05] <gunix> ,v iceweasel
1219 [11:06:06] <judd> Package: iceweasel on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.9.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 60.7.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 60.9.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1
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1223 [11:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1534
1224 [11:09:58] <astra> ,v kmod
1225 [11:09:59] <judd> Package: kmod on amd64 -- jessie: 18-3; stretch: 23-2; bullseye: 26-1; buster: 26-1; sid: 26-1
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1232 [11:16:30] <gunix> judd: thank you!
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1242 [11:19:34] <humbot> gunix firefox-esr is the recommended package in debian now
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1244 [11:20:42] <jelly> they left already
1245 [11:20:47] <annadane> ...how do you query judd using a bot command and then *thank* judd?
1246 [11:21:40] <annadane> judd, botsnack
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1249 [11:26:35] <judd> thank you so much, annadane *nom*
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1261 [11:38:04] <astra> yum in norsk, nice
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1268 [11:44:29] <davorin> morning (o;
1269 [11:44:50] <davorin> why won't a debian 9 host prefer ipv6 over v4?
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1271 [11:45:37] <GNU\colossus> because its /etc/gai.conf tells it not to, I presume
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1276 [11:51:23] <davorin> have several debian 9 hosts...all settings in gai.conf are commented out...
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1279 [11:51:34] <davorin> all but one prefer to use ipv6 though..
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1282 [11:52:30] <ZaZaGX> ahoy
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1286 [11:55:51] <jelly> davorin: any particular tool that does not use ipv6 by default?
1287 [11:56:02] <davorin> for example ping
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1290 [11:56:26] <davorin> and also the php mailer script picks up v4 only
1291 [11:56:43] <davorin> well not that big deal as i migrate it away to another hotter soon..
1292 [11:56:51] <davorin> s/hotter/hoster/
1293 [11:56:56] <jelly> davorin: ping to which address?
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1295 [11:57:00] <jelly> [11:56] ~ => ping google.com burek
1296 [11:57:00] <jelly> PING google.com(bud02s27-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1450:400d:804::200e)) 56 data bytes
1297 [11:57:01] <davorin> google.ch
1298 [11:57:10] <davorin> klingler@asterisk:~/cron$ ping google.ch
1299 [11:57:10] <davorin> PING google.ch(zrh11s02-in-x03.1e100.net (2a00:1450:400a:800::2003)) 56 data bytes
1300 [11:57:10] <davorin> 64 bytes from zrh11s02-in-x03.1e100.net (2a00:1450:400a:800::2003): icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=12.4 ms
1301 [11:57:18] <davorin> this is fine on my debian 9 host at home
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1304 [11:57:39] <davorin> just one picks:
1305 [11:57:40] <davorin> PING google.ch (172.217.22.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
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1307 [11:58:22] <jelly> davorin: does this system have a public ipv6 address with scope global?
1308 [11:58:52] <jelly> pastebin the output of "ip a" and "ip -6 r"
1309 [11:59:11] <davorin> it has its own /64 with scope global
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1311 [12:01:31] <davorin> this is the output of both commands:
1312 [12:01:31] <davorin> replaced-url
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1322 [12:05:04] <davorin> hmm...scope global deprecated
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1326 [12:08:25] <brutser> hi, when downloading netinstaller, i still get 10.0.0, is there already a 10.1.0 out, or i just have to wait for that?
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1336 [12:11:41] <jelly> brutser: it's not out yet
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1338 [12:12:08] <jelly> replaced-url
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1341 [12:13:03] <brutser> jelly: ok then it's just a matter of wait i guess
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1343 [12:13:29] <ZaZaGX> well, i just got the update. it still says i have buster 10
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1348 [12:19:24] <brutser> i noticed the new kernel update, so that made me look if there was a new debian version too and 10.1 just released yesterday, so i guess it takes some time to update everything
1349 [12:19:55] <jelly> brutser: cd images usually take a couple days more
1350 [12:20:07] <brutser> jelly: yes makes sense
1351 [12:20:29] <jelly> ZaZaGX: cat /etc/debian_version
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1354 [12:24:06] <ZaZaGX> 10.1
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1356 [12:26:53] <brutser> voila :)
1357 [12:27:01] <brutser> but it's still buster 10
1358 [12:27:12] <brutser> version 10.1
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1387 [12:49:07] <A_buh> can anyone tell me why i'm unable to get a custom command running?
1388 [12:49:49] <A_buh> i'm trying to get gnome-terminal to run the custom-command ' sh -c "bash; unset HISTFILE" '
1389 [12:50:29] <jelly> A_buh: what is that command supposed to achieve?
1390 [12:50:41] <A_buh> i'm trying to unset the HISTFILE variable
1391 [12:50:51] <jelly> where?
1392 [12:51:02] <A_buh> as soon as i load gnome-terminal
1393 [12:51:21] <jelly> in the interactive shell that's going to be running in that terminal?
1394 [12:51:34] <A_buh> yeah
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1396 [12:52:00] <A_buh> if i do it manually, it works fine
1397 [12:53:05] <A_buh> i can confirm with a ' unset HISTFILE '
1398 [12:53:22] <A_buh> when i run ' set | grep -i hist ' it shows the variable as empty
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1401 [12:54:23] <A_buh> that is pretty much the goal
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1403 [12:55:19] <jelly> A_buh: your command would first run bash, bash would do its thing, and only when bash ends, the parent shell would unset the variable
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1406 [12:56:02] <A_buh> yeah... that's what i was hoping it would do
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1409 [12:56:53] <jelly> A_buh: while bash is running, it would have its own value the usual way
1410 [12:56:53] <A_buh> oh
1411 [12:57:09] <jelly> try sh -c "HISTFILE= exec bash -i"
1412 [12:58:13] <abrock123> I have an encrypted Debian testing install which doesn't accept my password anymore. I'm not sure my keyboard works as expected, so I don't know if I'm typing it correctly. Can I somehow make the password I enter at boot visible?
1413 [12:58:21] <jelly> A_buh: or: env -u HISTFILE bash -i
1414 [12:58:52] <jelly> A_buh: but I suspect something in bash rc files sets it for interactive shells
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1416 [12:59:44] <jelly> abrock123: perhaps ask in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org)
1417 [13:00:30] <abrock123> ah, it also complains after each attempt: "libgcc_s.so.1 must be installed for pthread_cancel to work"
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1430 [13:07:38] <A_buh> jelly: i was actually hoping that it would read from the history file first and *then* forget its location... this way when i run 'history' i have access to the commands i ran, but that the history file doesn't get appended to
1431 [13:08:26] <A_buh> unless, of course, i explicitly append to it, or run another profile where the history gets recorded
1432 [13:08:53] <jelly> A_buh: I'd ask in #bash how to do that automatically
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1437 [13:10:28] <jelly> A_buh: but start with that last description there, don't make them jump hoops from "unable to get a custom command running" to your ACTUAL intention
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1439 [13:11:39] <A_buh> jelly: going through the man page for bash now... for the -c option
1440 [13:12:51] <jelly> -c does not get you an interactive shell.
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1449 [13:19:46] <teclo-> afternoon... Sorry but the ISO images for Debian GNU/Linux 10.1 aren't on cdimage.debian.org yet...
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1451 [13:20:59] <jelly> teclo-: no, they are not.
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1455 [13:22:18] <jelly> teclo-: they will be in a day or three.
1456 [13:22:25] <teclo-> jelly: ah thank you
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1466 [13:28:40] * jelly wonders why Debian announces a point release before iso image deliverables are ready
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1515 [14:05:07] <shiroiNeko> i have set check update to never and security update to display immediately, but every start up, debian always check for update and downloading all update file to /var/cache/apt without my knowledge, how can i stop it ?
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1525 [14:08:41] <jelly> shiroiNeko: where did you set this?
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1530 [14:13:15] <shiroiNeko> jelly: at software and update
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1535 [14:16:18] <jelly> "Software & Updates"? software-properties-gtk
1536 [14:17:20] *** Joins: d0m_ (~d0m@replaced-ip )
1537 [14:18:23] <shiroiNeko> yes thats right
1538 [14:18:32] *** Joins: newbie2 (~newbie4@replaced-ip )
1539 [14:20:24] <jelly> that seems to affect /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic config file...
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1545 [14:23:47] <shiroiNeko> there are no 10periodic file in those folder
1546 [14:24:48] <oblivian> What's the best, or a good, way to change DNS server when connecting to an openvpn server?
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1550 [14:26:55] <newbie2> Hello. What logs can i check when a desktop menu entry i made myself doesn't start the desired script in debian 10/Mate?
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1555 [14:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
1556 [14:29:39] <mebus> HI!
1557 [14:29:40] <mebus> Can somebody help with this: replaced-url
1558 [14:30:07] <oblivian> newbie2: hi, did you search through /var/log ? I know that's very general but most stuff is in there
1559 [14:30:56] <oblivian> also maybe try the command ' journalctl -xe '. Has been useful for me in the past debugging things
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1561 [14:31:31] <oblivian> But you might want to run journalctl directly after testing the thing as it outputs a lot of things
1562 [14:31:39] <oblivian> Hopefully that helps :)
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1564 [14:32:02] <newbie2> oblivian thanks. Did find no entries in logfiles or with journalctl
1565 [14:33:52] *** Joins: sc_ (~sc@replaced-ip )
1566 [14:33:53] <humpled> how 'bout ~/.xsession-errors
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1568 [14:34:22] <jelly> shiroiNeko: which debian release is this?
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1571 [14:35:37] <shiroiNeko> <jelly>buster 10
1572 [14:36:02] <jelly> shiroiNeko: weird. Can you pastebin the output of: sudo sh -x /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily lock_is_held update 2>&1 | head -n80
1573 [14:36:29] <jelly> or, if you don't have sudo, run the command as root, without that first "sudo " word
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1575 [14:36:42] <newbie2> Had to login again. humpled .xsession-errors doesn't show anything either. I wil try creating another test.desktop file
1576 [14:37:18] <jelly> that seems to be the script that does updates from apt-daily.service / apt-daily.timer
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1578 [14:37:52] <shiroiNeko> + [ lock_is_held = lock_is_held ]
1579 [14:37:52] <shiroiNeko> + shift
1580 [14:37:53] <shiroiNeko> + test -r /var/lib/apt/extended_states
1581 [14:37:53] <shiroiNeko> + cd /var/backups
1582 [14:37:53] <shiroiNeko> + cmp -s apt.extended_states.0 /var/lib/apt/extended_states
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1586 [14:38:17] <jelly> dpkg, tell shiroiNeko about paste
1587 [14:38:26] <dvs> not there
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1589 [14:39:06] <jelly> dvs: they're not here in the channel, but they're probably there in PM, which bot sends
1590 [14:39:16] <dvs> oh cool
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1595 [14:40:44] <claytoncoffey> Would there be a reason why the Debian download is so slow? Under 150KB/s I've tired 3 .ISO's all are about the same speed i'm not haveing speed issues anywhere else.
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1597 [14:41:03] <shiroiNeko> replaced-url
1598 [14:41:10] <dvs> claytoncoffey, the mirror is slow?
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1600 [14:41:43] *** Quits: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1601 [14:42:18] <jelly> shiroiNeko: well that looks as if it really shouldn't do automatic apt update fetching.
1602 [14:42:19] <claytoncoffey> I'm not sure i find the site hard to move around. Would you be able to link me to the non free lxqt Australia mirror if there is one please.
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1604 [14:42:49] <humpled> i got 320 kB/s on last upgrade, seems neither fast nor slow
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1606 [14:43:26] <dvs> !buster sources.list
1607 [14:43:27] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
1608 [14:43:29] <jelly> shiroiNeko: you can file a bug report
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1610 [14:44:57] <shiroiNeko> oh allright
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1613 [14:45:52] <claytoncoffey> thanks @dvs thats one place i tired still way too slow 14+ hours.
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1615 [14:46:33] <dvs> claytoncoffey, what are you downloading???
1616 [14:46:38] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip )
1617 [14:46:58] *** Quits: Rubin (rubin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1618 [14:47:06] <claytoncoffey> I'm wanting the non-free lxqt version
1619 [14:47:21] *** Quits: openface (~of@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1620 [14:47:30] <dvs> lxqt?
1621 [14:47:38] <claytoncoffey> Speed is not an issue
1622 [14:47:39] <claytoncoffey> [clayton@CPC ~]$ speedtest-cli --simple
1623 [14:47:40] <claytoncoffey> Ping: 37.771 ms
1624 [14:47:41] <claytoncoffey> Download: 85.81 Mbit/s
1625 [14:47:42] <claytoncoffey> Upload: 35.88 Mbit/s
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1628 [14:48:22] <nvz> sata is just universally hot swappable right? I mean I can just hdparm -Y and put a drive to sleep and remove it and plug in another no matter what controller it is?
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1630 [14:48:42] <claytoncoffey> LXQT is a desktop
1631 [14:48:56] <jelly> claytoncoffey: wait a day or three for iso images to appear, esp. the unofficial images might have a delay
1632 [14:48:57] <claytoncoffey> But xfce & gnome3 are the same speed
1633 [14:49:08] <nvz> claytoncoffey: one of a few that unfortunately uses wicd
1634 [14:49:44] <nvz> I'm of a mind that WICD is Wireless under Ideal Conditions Daemon
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1636 [14:49:49] <dvs> claytoncoffey, oh, you're downloading 10.1
1637 [14:49:53] <jelly> nvz: no. Hotplug actually working well depends on mainboard and bios.
1638 [14:50:12] <claytoncoffey> replaced-url
1639 [14:50:26] <claytoncoffey> Thats whats i'm downloading
1640 [14:50:43] <nvz> jelly: its not a big deal given the way I have the cabling its probably safer to shut down.. this machine is rather old commercial desktop crap
1641 [14:50:45] <jelly> nvz: and you want to tell the kernel to forget about drive resources: echo 1 > /sys/class/sdX/device/delete
1642 [14:50:58] <claytoncoffey> I need the non free version for ath9k & touchpad drivers
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1644 [14:51:04] <nvz> jelly: I wasn't aware of that interface
1645 [14:51:20] <shiroiNeko> somehow changing it's option fix it, now 10 periodic has appeared
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1647 [14:51:40] <jelly> nvz: it spins down the device and disconnects it from the bus, if all goes well
1648 [14:51:46] <dvs> claytoncoffey, ah, you're downloading from cdimage.debian.org. That's the original server so you're not downloading from a mirror
1649 [14:52:02] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip )
1650 [14:52:20] <nvz> jelly: yeah I guess if I just tell it to sleep the kernel is still expecting it to wake up at some point
1651 [14:52:32] *** Joins: Knaldgas (~Knaldgas@replaced-ip )
1652 [14:52:37] <claytoncoffey> Right! thats my issue anyone able to find a mirror suited to an australian connection lxqt or xfc4 IDC at this point
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1654 [14:53:22] *** Parts: th3jam3sd3an (~james@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
1655 [14:53:49] <newbie2> Just found the error: i forgot to specify the Path-Key in the .destkop file. Thanks for help
1656 [14:53:55] <jelly> claytoncoffey: why not install from (unofficial) netinst
1657 [14:54:13] <dvs> claytoncoffey, can you use the torrent instead? replaced-url
1658 [14:54:16] *** Joins: Deynja (~Deynja@replaced-ip )
1659 [14:54:32] <jelly> claytoncoffey: or wait a couple days for 10.1 images
1660 [14:54:42] <nvz> claytoncoffey: replaced-url
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1666 [14:57:04] <claytoncoffey> NVZ thankyou soo much
1667 [14:57:21] <claytoncoffey> you to jelly & dvs
1668 [14:57:24] <nvz> CLAYTONCOFFEY no problem XD
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1674 [14:59:25] <dalao> I installed buster, but the iptables does not work, when I type 'iptables -L', it say, 'Operation not supported',
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1676 [15:00:05] *** Joins: scde (~scde@replaced-ip )
1677 [15:00:05] <dalao> I don't know how to do, please help me
1678 [15:01:04] *** Quits: scde (~scde@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
1679 [15:01:19] <dalao> iptables v1.8.2 (nf_tables)
1680 [15:01:32] *** Joins: scde (~scde@replaced-ip )
1681 [15:01:34] <Habbie> dalao, is this some virtual machine?
1682 [15:01:49] <dalao> except -h, nearyly any option do the same
1683 [15:02:02] <dalao> Habbie, it is not virtual machine
1684 [15:02:09] <Habbie> it's a real PC?
1685 [15:02:10] <dalao> installed as host
1686 [15:02:14] <dalao> eys
1687 [15:02:17] <dalao> yes
1688 [15:02:33] *** Quits: claytoncoffey (~claytonco@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1689 [15:02:52] <aaro> are you running iptables command as root?
1690 [15:02:59] <dalao> yes, aaro
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1696 [15:03:47] *** cef is now known as Guest56445
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1698 [15:03:49] <dalao> when I try to install a guest os, with virt-manager, it tell me iptables does not work, then I try type iptable -L,
1699 [15:03:52] *** Joins: cef (~cef@replaced-ip )
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1702 [15:05:29] <dalao> Habbie, bust is my host os, in a real PC
1703 [15:05:37] <Habbie> dalao, anything in dmesg?
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1708 [15:06:31] <dalao> when boot, there are some pstore:crypto_comp errors
1709 [15:06:38] <Habbie> that's probably not it
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1712 [15:07:11] <Habbie> i mostly mean: does anything appear in dmesg when you try sudo iptables -L ?
1713 [15:07:30] <dalao> there are lines like 'OOM killer enabled'
1714 [15:07:46] <dalao> 'Restarting tasks ... done.'
1715 [15:07:46] <dvs> out of memory
1716 [15:08:17] <dalao> 7896.4 total, 4917.0 free
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1719 [15:09:07] <dalao> nothing was print in dmesg, Habbie
1720 [15:09:23] <dalao> when executing 'iptables -L'
1721 [15:09:31] <shiroiNeko> jelly, replaced-url
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1723 [15:10:36] *** Quits: dasj19 (~dasj19@replaced-ip ) (Quit: dasj19)
1724 [15:10:44] <dalao> because of iptables, on which both kvm and docker depends
1725 [15:10:53] *** Joins: nvz (~user@replaced-ip )
1726 [15:10:54] <dalao> can not started
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1733 [15:15:15] <dalao> replaced-url
1734 [15:15:19] *** Joins: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip )
1735 [15:15:27] <jelly> shiroiNeko: I wouldn't bet on it
1736 [15:15:37] <dalao> Habbie, that is result of strace iptables
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1739 [15:16:26] <Habbie> dalao, right, EOPNOTSUPP is received from the kernel in there
1740 [15:16:29] <Habbie> dalao, but i don't know why, sorry
1741 [15:16:52] <dalao> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/etc/xtables.conf", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT
1742 [15:17:06] <dalao> the file have to exist?
1743 [15:17:29] *** Joins: metreo (~oliver@replaced-ip )
1744 [15:18:03] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1745 [15:18:16] <jelly> dalao: which architecture and kernel is this? uname -a
1746 [15:18:31] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip )
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1749 [15:19:02] <dalao> jelly: Linux jianghu 5.0.14 #3 SMP Fri Sep 6 21:07:25 CST 2019 x86_64 GNU/Linux
1750 [15:19:13] *** Quits: epony (epony@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1751 [15:19:41] <jelly> dalao: is there a reason for the custom kernel?
1752 [15:19:56] <dalao> jelly, no, :-)
1753 [15:20:19] <dalao> I will try the kernel from buster, wait a minute
1754 [15:20:21] <jelly> boot the distro kernel and see if things work better
1755 [15:20:29] <dalao> ok, thank you
1756 [15:20:32] *** Quits: jmichel (~jmichel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1757 [15:20:43] <Habbie> oh :)
1758 [15:20:49] <Habbie> custom kernel
1759 [15:20:51] *** Quits: dalao (~dalao@replaced-ip ) (Quit: dalao)
1760 [15:21:49] <jelly> one does suspect such things when kernel functionality that usually Just Works™ doesn't
1761 [15:21:58] *** Quits: gierdo (~Dominik_G@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1762 [15:22:44] <dvs> I know that I had to compile the kernel several times to get it the work right.
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1765 [15:25:05] <dalao> Habbie, jelly, now it works, thank you
1766 [15:25:34] <dalao> very much
1767 [15:26:42] *** Quits: kryten (krytarik@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1768 [15:27:04] <Habbie> ok!
1769 [15:27:38] <jelly> you're welcome
1770 [15:27:53] <dalao> to write in a ntfs fs, does I must install ntfs-3g? I notice the kernel there are a feature about ntfs write
1771 [15:28:11] <jelly> probably yes
1772 [15:28:20] <dalao> ok, I will try
1773 [15:28:32] *** Quits: oblivian (~junior@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1774 [15:28:47] <dalao> in the old dist, there a menu editor, now it is removed?
1775 [15:28:54] *** Joins: oblivian (~junior@replaced-ip )
1776 [15:29:32] <jelly> the whole debian menu functionality seems to be gone or at least very deprecated
1777 [15:29:33] *** Quits: scde (~scde@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1778 [15:29:48] <oblivian> test
1779 [15:29:53] <dvs> !test
1780 [15:29:53] <dpkg> Test failed.
1781 [15:29:58] *** Joins: krytarik (krytarik@replaced-ip )
1782 [15:30:00] <oblivian> damn
1783 [15:30:32] <oblivian> Was there any news on v10.1?
1784 [15:30:39] <jelly> my kde still gets old menu entries from ~/.menu/ somehow
1785 [15:30:40] <alpha-carinae> what's !test?
1786 [15:30:45] <oblivian> Thought it'd have a kernel update
1787 [15:30:52] <dvs> oblivian, it's out?
1788 [15:31:10] <dalao> I have installed android-studio, which has a start script, I don't know how to add it to my favour folder
1789 [15:31:23] <jelly> oblivian: the repos are updated. debian-installer and live iso images are not available yet.
1790 [15:31:30] <dalao> if it is a menuitem, I can add it
1791 [15:31:43] <oblivian> oh
1792 [15:32:50] *** Joins: Rubin (~rubin@replaced-ip )
1793 [15:33:40] <jelly> dalao: you can create a custom .desktop file and put it under, uh, .local/share/applications/ maybe?
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1796 [15:34:50] <dalao> jelly, I will try, thank you
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1807 [15:42:58] <dalao> jelly, when I watch that directory, I remember that alacarte is menu editor, 😀️, thank you
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1812 [15:45:01] <dalao> how to let desktop display those desktop items, I have modified something in dconf
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1820 [15:53:55] <nvz> I'm trying to install to a SATA HDD in a USB3 dock from my Thinkpad T440, the machine this HDD will later boot from is legacy bios. I downloaded the Debian 10 firmware netinstall iso, and at first it had booted in UEFI mode which confused me cause I thought I had that disabled, but after checking I had my UEFI/BIOS set to BOTH and when I set it to Legacy only the installer thumbdrive doesn't show up in the
1821 [15:54:01] <nvz> boot list anymore
1822 [15:54:10] <nvz> can I boot in UEFI mode and install legacy only or what's the deal here?
1823 [15:54:19] <nvz> I thought the installer images booted either way
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1825 [15:57:55] <nvz> nm, maybe the Optiplex 7010 does have UEFI
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1829 [16:02:56] <qman__> should work regardless, only thing required for legacy boot is an MBR bootloader, which you can easily do by hand even if the installer doesn't - the rest of debian doesn't care how you booted
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1831 [16:03:42] <nvz> yes I'm familiar but I normally just do the WIDHE install.. I didnt wanna be custom partitioning and bootloadering
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1840 [16:10:48] <nvz> I'd asked not because I'm a newbie, but because I'm a lil sleepy and still somewhat inebriated XD
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1842 [16:11:24] <nvz> I'll just do it and deal with whatever happens later :P
1843 [16:12:08] <dvs> yeah right
1844 [16:12:25] <dvs> ;-P
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1865 [16:29:13] <xsisec> Hi guys I am debian 9 stretch I cant make grub2 find my Windows 10 with EUFI, I been reading a lots of threads but cant make it work could someone help me out :(
1866 [16:29:40] <dvs> os-prober
1867 [16:30:00] <xsisec> when I run sudo os-prober nothing happens,
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1873 [16:31:29] <dvs> xsisec, I think your Debian installation has to be UEFI if you want it to detect another UEFI installed OS
1874 [16:32:18] <xsisec> Oh ok... :(
1875 [16:32:29] <xsisec> is it possible to reinstall that afterwards?
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1881 [16:34:48] <dvs> Probably, but I haven't tried it.
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1883 [16:36:52] <EdePopede> hi. i was about to look for jigdo to finally install buster (on the other pc for the moment) but that's a complete mess. there's only a virtual package with that name, a tool which as per jigdo hp is for mantainers, though the package text says something different, and after following a few clicks i always end up at one of the download pages
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1886 [16:39:03] <JordiGH> What's the proper way to set an environment variable for my X session? (In this case, `export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2`)
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1891 [16:43:18] <Mathisen> quick question do i need to restart apache service when i have renew my ssl cert ?. does not seem to update on site
1892 [16:43:33] <Habbie> Mathisen, i believe you do need to do that, yes
1893 [16:43:33] <LtL> Mathisen: no
1894 [16:43:37] <Habbie> oh
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1898 [16:45:17] <LtL> Mathisen: actually, i could be wrong, a cron job runs every day to test it, as for renewal, i'm not postive, mine renews next month so you may have to.
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1900 [16:45:38] <Mathisen> mine > expires in 18 hours and 58 minutes
1901 [16:45:52] <Mathisen> but i just renewd it so. just need to get the site to update
1902 [16:46:21] <Mathisen> yeah restarted apache worked.
1903 [16:47:08] <LtL> Mathisen: you can renew after 60 days instead of 90, with letencrypt.
1904 [16:47:24] <Mathisen> i know, i just been on the lazy side :)
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1906 [16:48:13] <lord_chris> JordiGH, You set 'export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2' in the qt5 config file or .bashrc
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1908 [16:48:46] <JordiGH> lord_chris: Erm, the X server is gonna run my .bashrc?
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1911 [16:49:45] <EdePopede> from the jigdo hp: "Debian Jigdo mini-HOWTO Last update by Admin on 2010-04-28 " - linking to the "latest version" of the howto, the host is still there, but no httpd, it seems.
1912 [16:50:33] <LtL> Habbie: pardons for the mistake, you were right.
1913 [16:50:33] <lord_chris> JordiGH, If you have bash as the shell, then yes
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1917 [16:54:35] <jelly> Mathisen: you can just reload apache, no need for a full restart
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1921 [16:55:38] <Mathisen> good to know
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1924 [16:56:12] <EdePopede> "jigdo creates a bit-exact copy of the original image on the user's machine." and i've just read the opposite on one of the pages i've been. that it does NOT create images (which actually sounded strange, i should have saved the url)
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1926 [16:58:07] <Habbie> EdePopede, that page you did not save sounds wrong
1927 [16:58:49] <humpled> what kind of copy would not be bit-exact?
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1932 [17:01:53] <jelly> humpled: grabbing all the files and creating the iso again
1933 [17:03:53] <EdePopede> "A common misconception is that jigdo creates ISO images; it doesn't. Let's discuss the overall process of how jigdo allows you to obtain an ISO image. "
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1935 [17:04:03] <EdePopede> replaced-url
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1938 [17:05:23] <EdePopede> and then that jigdo-file vs. jigdo-lite all the time. absolutely confusing.
1939 [17:05:53] <EdePopede> " She uses jigdo-lite along with these two files to download Adam's ISO image."
1940 [17:06:06] <EdePopede> curl/wget to download an ISO, so why jigdo?
1941 [17:06:12] <EdePopede> a horrible text
1942 [17:06:14] <jelly> EdePopede: that's like saying a torrent client does not create the images it downloads.
1943 [17:06:32] <EdePopede> no idea about torrent
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1945 [17:07:00] <jelly> sure, the original image is created by someone else first. And jigdo-lite recreates a copy.
1946 [17:07:23] <EdePopede> "When Betty wants to update her CDs, she downloads the new .jigdo and .template files and uses them with jigdo-light to update her copy of the ISO images."
1947 [17:07:34] <EdePopede> this tells me that jigdo does work on the local ISO
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1949 [17:08:06] <jelly> EdePopede: it's a downloader, that can use existing old version as a download-reducing cache.
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1952 [17:08:44] <EdePopede> jelly: sure, that's the part of the whole thing i understand even without knowing anything about jigdo. but i can't get any more info from the text i find
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1954 [17:09:06] <jelly> eh, noone uses it any more
1955 [17:09:13] <EdePopede> jigdo looks like a TIAS concept with the hope that it will work
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1957 [17:09:34] <jelly> it works, but is a PITA to use
1958 [17:09:36] <EdePopede> what, jigdo? is it dead then?
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1961 [17:10:34] <jelly> is a tool that works, but that noone needs, dead?
1962 [17:11:12] <EdePopede> so how to i get more than those 3 DVDs? order a disk set at debian.org?
1963 [17:11:23] <EdePopede> and no, i don't have any clue where i could buy one localle
1964 [17:12:17] <EdePopede> i did it in the past, but both book shops are gone now, and the other one which used to even host install parties in the past has calenders now in that area and is a "normal" bookshop now.
1965 [17:12:24] <jelly> do you actually need them or is this a rhetorical question?
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1971 [17:15:49] <EdePopede> rhetorical atm, i don't even know what they actually contain, would have to grab the list
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1973 [17:16:19] <EdePopede> but then there's either no need for them so they could go away, or there is and then they should be available
1974 [17:16:34] <jelly> right, thus: "noone needs"
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1992 [17:24:56] <Aebian> hi, can someone link my to a man-page where it is explained why my networking creates second ip addresses for eth1 and eth2? My networking config looks like this: replaced-url
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1999 [17:27:31] <lord_chris> Aebian, What is the output of ifconfig?
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2001 [17:28:51] <Aebian> lord_chris: replaced-url
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2003 [17:29:39] <Aebian> the .2 addresses are as expected, just the other ones .10 and .11 shouldn't be there
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2007 [17:31:57] <lord_chris> Aebian, Did you disable dhcp for eth1 and eth2?
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2011 [17:33:12] <Aebian> well I set the interface to static, shouldn't that disable dhcp?
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2016 [17:34:09] <lord_chris> Aebian, Set eth1 and eth2 DOWN and back to UP
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2019 [17:35:37] <lord_chris> Aebian, .10 and .11 is probably the old lease from dhcp
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2027 [17:37:20] <Aebian> it isn't
2028 [17:37:22] <Aebian> replaced-url
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2030 [17:38:37] <Aebian> .2 are used but .10 & .11 are used too. My dhcp server has a static entry for the mac addresses and .2 addresses
2031 [17:38:51] <Aebian> but not for .10 and .11
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2036 [17:39:51] <lord_chris> Aebian, The command to set secoundary ip address is "ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.1.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 up". Try to release .10 ad .11
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2046 [17:43:42] <Aebian> replaced-url
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2056 [17:49:08] <lord_chris> Aebian, Are .10 and .11 from dhcp as static?
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2061 [17:50:43] <lord_chris> Aebian, Is there anything in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ ?
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2068 [17:54:10] <Aebian> no, nothing in there and .10 and .11 are leased
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2070 [17:54:26] <Aebian> they are never set on the dhcp
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2072 [17:55:24] <jmcnaught> Did you search syslog or journalctl for the mystery IP addresses?
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2075 [17:56:55] <lord_chris> Aebian, I know Raspian which is based on Debian sets static ip address in /etc/dhcpcd.conf. Maybe there is something in the dhcp config.
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2083 [18:00:23] <Aebian> this is not the case here
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2088 [18:01:20] <m0rd3cai> Got quite the random question. I've found an online solution but doesn't extract the info. I have an mp3 file that plays morse code and I need some software to extract the morse code from the file.
2089 [18:01:33] <m0rd3cai> Anyone know of any software that can achieve that
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2091 [18:02:31] <Aebian> syslog tells that the system requested a dhcp lease and got the .11 from the router
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2103 [18:05:11] <ArlequInOut> m0rd3cai, a decoder replaced-url
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2106 [18:06:08] <lord_chris> Aebian, What happens when you reboot. Do you still get two?
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2111 [18:07:39] <Aebian> yes, tried that already
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2113 [18:08:03] <Aebian> funny thing is that the mac addresses are the same as the static entry
2114 [18:08:31] <Aebian> ah nvm
2115 [18:08:33] <Aebian> they are not
2116 [18:08:40] <Aebian> that's the issue then
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2119 [18:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1564
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2122 [18:10:03] <lord_chris> Aebian, Hehe. Now I learned something new. Thanks :-)
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2124 [18:10:29] <Aebian> probably it is because I changed the network devices on the ESXi server
2125 [18:10:45] <Aebian> and that swapped the mac addresses
2126 [18:11:12] <Aebian> and yup, after the reboot everything back to normal
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2128 [18:12:11] <Aebian> just changed the static entries across the dhcp servers to reflect the correct ip's
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2130 [18:12:21] <m0rd3cai> ArlequInOut: already tried that. Too much ambient background noise. Found out about Sonic Visualizer to play only certain frequencies. Audio stego!
2131 [18:13:36] <Primer> Having some issues with compiling a source deb. I downloaded the 4 files (dsc, diff.gz, orig.tar.gz, and its awc), but the same process that worked about 2 weeks ago now fails. Has building source debs changed recently?
2132 [18:13:44] <ArlequInOut> m0rd3cai, for stego, use nyquist, the script engine of audacity (a sort of lisp)
2133 [18:13:47] <Primer> asc, that is
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2135 [18:14:22] *** Quits: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2136 [18:14:29] <Primer> dh_install: Cannot find (any matches for) "../../build-source/xorg-server.tar.*" (tried in debian/tmp/main, debian/tmp)
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2138 [18:14:55] <Primer> Yet a section in the rules file clearly has a command that should be making that file. Just not sure it's being called
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2143 [18:17:24] <Primer> So if I kick off the process and just run the command manually, it builds to a point where it detects the .so files, and encounters another failure there. The same call to dpkg-buildpackage against the same files last week produced the debs, and now it's failing. I may have moved from buster to testing during that time. Not sure.
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2145 [18:17:36] <m0rd3cai> ArlequInOut: cool ill check that out. well shit, gave my VM 30 gigs more space but linux doesnt realize it.. wtf.
2146 [18:17:56] <m0rd3cai> replaced-url
2147 [18:18:01] <dvs> gparted?
2148 [18:18:19] <Primer> Do you expect Linux to format and swapon for you?
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2150 [18:18:43] <m0rd3cai> never adjust disk size in virtual box before
2151 [18:18:46] <m0rd3cai> adjusted*
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2153 [18:18:59] <m0rd3cai> its show as 30gigs unallocated. there it is
2154 [18:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1557
2155 [18:19:12] <digdilem> m0rd3cai, rescan the disk, disk and delete then reecreate the partition, then reboot, then grow the fs
2156 [18:19:26] <digdilem> 2nd disk is fdisk in that
2157 [18:20:41] <dvs> or backup the image and use a live ISO to run gparted?
2158 [18:21:57] <m0rd3cai> thats what im doing. I just couldnt figure out where the hell that 30gig went.\
2159 [18:22:18] <digdilem> until the partition's recreated with the new boundaries, the fs won't be able to see it
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2161 [18:22:37] <digdilem> much of my job is doing this on production machines
2162 [18:22:59] <digdilem> lvm does make it easier, mind
2163 [18:23:06] <dvs> m0rd3cai, yes, you increased the disk size but the partitions aren't going to automatically change its sizes too
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2166 [18:24:29] <Primer> Doesn't system detect that nowadays, and resize for us? I've seen this happen on Debian 9 at AWS, IIRC.
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2170 [18:26:11] <Primer> I've observed this before, but it was upon a reboot, but the same _could_ happen at runtime, even on a mounted disk
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2179 [18:31:39] <Primer> So...no one building deps nowadays?
2180 [18:31:42] <Primer> debs
2181 [18:32:00] <Primer> dsc that worked 2 weeks ago now doesn't...trying to figure out what changed
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2226 [19:02:49] <EdePopede> if i plug in the same thumbdrive into the same connector, shouldn't it be either ehci or ohci and stay with it when i repeat it?
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2238 [19:13:31] <no_gravity> Funny, I just noticed that ALT+ESC gives me a better window toggler then ALT+TAB. Never noticed that.
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2252 [19:26:39] <Primer> When running dpkg-buildpackage...is there no way to get it to pick up where it left off?
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2263 [19:34:48] <magic_ninja> looks like synaptic and muon are the only graphical frontends for package managers
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2288 [19:50:14] <MsK`> hi! I finally upgraded the machine connected to my tv from jessie to stretch and the buster. However, I can't start X anymore. I used to start it remotely because that machine has no keyboard. But now xinit fails because of a lack of permissions to access the VTs. At first it was a /dev/tty read problem so I added my user to tty but now it says
2289 [19:50:15] <MsK`> xf86OpenConsole has permissions denied
2290 [19:50:25] <MsK`> any idea how to fix it? X does start if I start with root but...
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2298 [19:56:03] <Primer> So you ssh in and run xinit?
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2300 [19:56:34] <MsK`> yup
2301 [19:56:50] <MsK`> more precisely: xinit kodi --standalone -- -nocursor :0
2302 [19:57:12] <Primer> And what does this report?
2303 [19:57:52] <Primer> Specifically, that is
2304 [19:59:04] <MsK`> command stderr : replaced-url
2305 [19:59:15] <MsK`> xorg log: replaced-url
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2307 [19:59:41] <Primer> Not sure if X/Xorg should still be suid root for this. Checking my own system
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2309 [20:00:11] <MsK`> I've read stuff about systemd logind that permits running as user but I didn't understand it
2310 [20:00:26] <MsK`> and looking for logind returns lots of unrelated results
2311 [20:00:35] <Primer> -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root 14608 Mar 5 2019 Xorg.wrap
2312 [20:00:42] <Primer> Is what runs here, and it's suid root
2313 [20:00:50] <Primer> Might want to check that
2314 [20:00:59] <MsK`> which directory is this?
2315 [20:01:11] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey guys is there a way to see how long a process has been running?
2316 [20:01:17] <Primer> I did this: which Xorg, it reported /usr/bin/Xorg, which is a script, and followed that
2317 [20:01:44] <Eryn_1983_FL> nm it finished already
2318 [20:01:53] <Primer> Eryn_1983_FL: Something in /proc/$PID should tell you
2319 [20:02:02] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok
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2321 [20:03:24] <MsK`> indeed it wasn't suid! thanks Primer! I had no idea Xorg was a script and not a binary
2322 [20:04:04] <Primer> np
2323 [20:04:13] <Primer> It's been like that for a while now, AFAIK
2324 [20:05:28] <Primer> Anyone building debs? I'm running into an issue that I didn't run into 2 weeks ago when I made these debs for the first time. I then made the commands into a script I could re-run at will, and it worked then...but now it fails
2325 [20:05:44] <Primer> The dsc hasn't changed, but I might have migrated from buster to testing during this time
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2333 [20:08:32] <Primer> I'm experiencing two errors: the first is where dh_install is being called and failing because a tarball is missing, one which is created by an entry in debian/rules
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2337 [20:09:31] <Primer> The second is some difference in so detection between _something_, presumably the built files, and this udeb
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2341 [20:10:34] <Primer> replaced-url
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2364 [20:21:57] <gvth> Hi. When a package is in contrib, how do I find out on what proprietary piece of software it depends on?
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2370 [20:28:32] <jmcnaught> gvth: you can use "aptitude search ~snon-free~R<package>", or if you want to also get recommends then 'aptitude search "~snon-free (~Rrecommends:<package> | ~R<package>)"'
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2387 [20:42:18] <Zabot_> I've setup a chroot with debootstrap of debian jessie. A handful of commands behave strangely in the chroot and I can't figure out why. A couple examples, login will hang when a successful password is used for a user, apt update will hang, but only when sudoed by a nonroot user that was su'ed into from root. Running apt update as the root user directly from the chroot command works without issue. I've
2388 [20:42:20] <Zabot_> compared the outputs of env in both cases and they're identical. I've also looked at the hang with gdb and found its hanging in a syscall to __read_nocancel. I don't even know where I would begin debugging something like this, any ideas?
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2390 [20:42:52] <Primer> So...no one building debs today, eh? dpkg-buildpackage command that worked 2 weeks ago, verbatim today, does not. I'm on testing, and haven't checked to see what packages may have changed, but this would also potentially span a few zfs root datasets
2391 [20:43:43] <Primer> Zabot_: DNS lookup?
2392 [20:43:50] <Primer> is where I'd start
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2399 [20:45:48] <cbthree> my 7 gigabytes root partition is 96% full, what files or directories can i safely remove to free up space? btw, i have already removed old logs from /var/log
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2403 [20:46:09] <Primer> cbthree: /var/cache/apt/
2404 [20:46:11] <Primer> err
2405 [20:46:27] <cbthree> Primer, apt-get clean all ??
2406 [20:46:36] <Primer> that
2407 [20:46:43] <Zabot_> Primer: What about dns? Resolve.conf is correct, dns server is pingable in both cases, debian.org is resolved successfully.
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2409 [20:46:46] <Primer> but you asked for dirs, so... :)
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2411 [20:47:12] <Primer> He must have typed control w
2412 [20:47:25] <cbthree> Primer, i forgot to mentioned that i already have executed apt-get clean all before coming here
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2418 [20:48:22] <Primer> cbthree: the other usual candidates are /tmp and /var/tmp, if they're on the same fs
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2420 [20:48:46] <Primer> those should be getting cleaned at boot though, no?
2421 [20:49:07] <Primer> Not sure if Debian does that. I've seen other distros do that...and have it be an issue
2422 [20:49:11] <Zabot_> Aaand my desktop enviornment decided to crash -_-, did I miss anything in the last 30 seconds?
2423 [20:49:21] <Primer> long boot hangs as massive amounts of data get purged from /tmp on boot
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2426 [20:50:16] <Primer> Zabot_: seemed you were on the right track with strace. Sounds like you know how to diagnose a DNS hang.
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2428 [20:50:42] <Zabot_> cbthree: Maybe some application specific temp/cache files? I think firefox likes to cache in the home directory
2429 [20:50:45] <k1ng> hi, is there anyway to auto accept zfs-dkms license?
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2431 [20:51:54] <Zabot_> cbthree: you could try something like gdmap to get a visualization of disk usage. It makes it pretty easy to pick out what is sucking up drive space
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2433 [20:52:29] <Zabot_> Primer: I'm not even sure it is a dns failure in the first place though, login shouldn't need to do any dns lookups...
2434 [20:52:56] <Zabot_> Unless localhost is borked and thats the lookup thats hanging
2435 [20:53:20] <Primer> Zabot_: just saying, what you've described, a lot of times, can be easily identified by doing the same thing with -n
2436 [20:53:27] <Primer> for example, route vs route -n
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2439 [20:53:36] <Primer> if one hangs and the other doesn't, there's your answer
2440 [20:53:53] <Primer> It was only the first thing that came to mind. I may be completely off base :)
2441 [20:54:23] <dokma> Keyboard and mouse do not work in XFCE after upgrade to buster. I briefly saw some message in console when I launched Xorg. Is there a way to switch consoles from the command line?
2442 [20:54:38] <bitcoinmane> anyone been in here yet to ask yall how chroot works?
2443 [20:54:40] <cbthree> any ideas of how can i free up space?
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2445 [20:55:37] <bitcoinmane> what do you mean free up space?
2446 [20:55:41] <bitcoinmane> you delete files?
2447 [20:55:49] <bitcoinmane> rm -rf file
2448 [20:55:54] <bitcoinmane> or right click and delete
2449 [20:55:55] <bitcoinmane> lol
2450 [20:55:59] <Zabot_> chthree: You could also sudo du -sh /* to get an idea of where most of the uage is
2451 [20:56:13] <bitcoinmane> yeah find out whats using the data first
2452 [20:56:19] <bitcoinmane> then wipe it
2453 [20:56:36] <ratrace> cbthree: ncdu is useful here
2454 [20:56:42] <GNU\colossus> better, imo: sudo du -chx / | sort -h
2455 [20:56:44] <bitcoinmane> yeah or df, no?
2456 [20:56:50] <bitcoinmane> isnt there a better df command?
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2459 [20:57:08] <cbthree> my 7 gigabytes root partition is 96% full, what files or directories can i safely remove to free up space? btw, i have already removed old logs from /var/log. i also executed apt-get clean all before coming here
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2461 [20:57:30] <bitcoinmane> you need to find out which dirs are using most data
2462 [20:57:32] <Zabot_> df shows filesystem usage, you cant see directory usage
2463 [20:57:35] <bitcoinmane> then look into them
2464 [20:57:37] <bitcoinmane> oh
2465 [20:57:52] <bitcoinmane> i thought df had a flag for it though
2466 [20:58:00] <digdilem> you might want something like: du -sh *
2467 [20:58:26] <digdilem> make it sortable with: du -sh * |sort -hr
2468 [20:58:30] <bitcoinmane> or copy your system to a bigger harddrive lol
2469 [20:58:33] <ratrace> or use ncdu instead of du
2470 [20:58:42] <bitcoinmane> 7GB isnt much for a system
2471 [20:58:43] <at0m> cbthree: some time i moved /usr/share/ to another partition, and linked that back. probably an ugly workaround, but worked for me.
2472 [20:58:56] <bitcoinmane> he's going to continue to run out of space with 7GB
2473 [20:59:00] <Primer> best: du -h --max-depth=1 /
2474 [20:59:02] <at0m> bitcoinmane: depends on the machines purpose..
2475 [20:59:03] <bitcoinmane> needs to copy the system to a bigger drive
2476 [20:59:08] <bitcoinmane> true
2477 [20:59:10] <Primer> then drill down from there
2478 [20:59:12] <bitcoinmane> but 7GB is very low
2479 [20:59:27] <bitcoinmane> logs alone on something being used is going to cause an issue, id think
2480 [20:59:31] <bitcoinmane> needs at least 20 or 40GB
2481 [20:59:34] <digdilem> Primer, du -sh does much the same btw
2482 [20:59:37] <bitcoinmane> nothing useful uses 7GB lol
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2484 [20:59:45] <bitcoinmane> agreed?
2485 [20:59:53] <digdilem> no
2486 [20:59:57] <Primer> digdilem: nope
2487 [20:59:58] <bitcoinmane> ha.
2488 [21:00:02] <cbthree> my "hard drive" is a 16GB emmc one (soldered to the motherboard). Cannot upgrade it
2489 [21:00:09] <bitcoinmane> i see.
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2491 [21:00:30] <bitcoinmane> thats not much space. 7GB. it's going to limit your ability to really do anything good with a system.
2492 [21:00:43] <ratrace> depends on the use case
2493 [21:00:47] <bitcoinmane> and youre probably going to experience this problem several times, not just once.
2494 [21:00:53] <at0m> what's the command to clean out systemd logs again?
2495 [21:00:57] <digdilem> bitcoinmane, there's a lot of logic in having many small servers. Load balancers, HA gateways etc
2496 [21:00:58] <Primer> oops, I thought I had x in my first one, my bad
2497 [21:00:58] <bitcoinmane> yeah but if he doesnt know what to do, itll happen again
2498 [21:01:01] <Zabot_> Yeah, what is the usecase? What about some kind squashfs live system?
2499 [21:01:03] <c0d3ninja> @cbthree check out a tool called Bleachbit: replaced-url
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2501 [21:01:09] <bitcoinmane> yeah but itll happen to him again, i promise
2502 [21:01:16] <bitcoinmane> he doesnt know how to clean stuff
2503 [21:01:18] <at0m> cbthree: check man journalctl then search for --vacuum
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2507 [21:01:53] <Primer> at0m: hehe you mean that doesn't happen automagically?
2508 [21:01:57] <bitcoinmane> he obviously doesn't know what hes doing if hes slapping Debian on 7GB, period. I don't care what you guys say.
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2510 [21:02:08] <at0m> Primer: depends on journal settings
2511 [21:02:15] <ratrace> I have many debian installations on 5GB, working just fine.
2512 [21:02:22] <bitcoinmane> you guys only do that shit to get a thrill out of it
2513 [21:02:23] <c0d3ninja> Yeah, Debian definitely needs more than 7GB
2514 [21:02:29] <Primer> bitcoinmane: why would you say that? It's not unusual for say, AWS EC2 instances to do so.
2515 [21:02:29] <bitcoinmane> for what though?
2516 [21:02:34] <Zabot_> I've put debian on a 4GB flash drive before, its doable.
2517 [21:02:38] <bitcoinmane> what can he even install on 7GB?
2518 [21:02:43] <c0d3ninja> I have 1TB lol
2519 [21:02:44] <bitcoinmane> yeah but pointless
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2522 [21:02:56] <bitcoinmane> it will be a very limited system
2523 [21:02:59] <bitcoinmane> period
2524 [21:03:02] <ratrace> nope
2525 [21:03:03] <bitcoinmane> he can't install anything good
2526 [21:03:10] <at0m> define good
2527 [21:03:10] <ratrace> you're only thinking of big suite desktops
2528 [21:03:13] <at0m> games?
2529 [21:03:13] <Zabot_> If you using it as some kind of netbrowser/texteditor/ssh client its perfectly reasonable.
2530 [21:03:14] <bitcoinmane> yall will argue this up and down forever, i know
2531 [21:03:25] <cbthree> my question is: my root partition is 96% full, what files and directories can i *safely* remove to free up space?
2532 [21:03:40] <bitcoinmane> i know this; someone who doesnt know how to delete files will run out of space with 7GB, over, and over again though.
2533 [21:03:41] <Primer> cbthree: answer: what you don't need
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2535 [21:03:55] <Zabot_> cbthree: It depends on your system and use case. You need to start with figuring out what is using the space. If its all being used by user files, then nothing.
2536 [21:03:56] <Primer> up to you to identify that
2537 [21:04:02] <at0m> cbthree: docs for example. those can be found online..
2538 [21:04:05] <bitcoinmane> what is his use case?
2539 [21:04:11] <bitcoinmane> you guys keep saying that.
2540 [21:04:20] <cbthree> all programs i have installed i use and need. i am not editing video on my computer
2541 [21:04:22] <bitcoinmane> i can almost bet his use case isn't one that needs 7GB
2542 [21:04:30] <bitcoinmane> not if he can't delete files lol
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2544 [21:04:39] <Primer> bitcoinmane: sounds like a chromebook
2545 [21:04:42] <c0d3ninja> bitcoinmane: stop being a dick lol
2546 [21:04:42] <bitcoinmane> he probably needs 20 or 40GB
2547 [21:04:47] <Primer> or something like that. He said "16G soldered to the MB"
2548 [21:04:54] <bitcoinmane> im not really trying to be
2549 [21:04:57] <bitcoinmane> just saying
2550 [21:05:00] <Zabot_> cbthree: Okay, do you know how much of that space is being used by your personal files?
2551 [21:05:00] <Primer> that's pretty plain, and not too far-fectched as a use-case
2552 [21:05:03] <bitcoinmane> hes going to cause himself more problems than good
2553 [21:05:04] <cbthree> old logs have been removed , /var/cache/archives too
2554 [21:05:16] <cbthree> old logs have been removed , /var/cache/apt/archives too
2555 [21:05:23] <bitcoinmane> i doubt its logs.
2556 [21:05:29] <bitcoinmane> which dir contains most data?
2557 [21:05:45] <ratrace> cbthree: then there's nothing much to *safely* delete, if you've cleaned up logs and caches. only you now know what you can or cannot delete
2558 [21:05:53] <at0m> cbthree: systemd doesn't just use /var/log, also see "man journalctl" and look for --vacuum*
2559 [21:05:59] <cbthree> personal files? i have a separate /home partition
2560 [21:06:07] <bitcoinmane> yeah you home is holding most then
2561 [21:06:09] <bitcoinmane> i can bet
2562 [21:06:09] <ratrace> cbthree: also see if /tmp is harboring any illegals
2563 [21:06:10] *** Quits: Oksana (~Wikiwide@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2564 [21:06:13] <Zabot_> cbthree: Please run 'sudo du -sh /*' and pastebin it for us.
2565 [21:06:14] *** Joins: Guest36270 (~not@replaced-ip )
2566 [21:06:25] *** Quits: Guest36270 (~not@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2567 [21:06:27] <Primer> I had a chromebox I salvaged and had to remove a hardware screw to bypass some crap. It had a hard wired "SSD" no more than 4G, slow as hell. Worked fine. But I put avlinux on it.
2568 [21:06:30] <bitcoinmane> who wants to bet its his /home?
2569 [21:06:47] <Primer> bitcoinmane: I get there is no separate /home
2570 [21:06:54] <Primer> I bet it's all under /
2571 [21:06:57] <cbthree> personal files? i have a separate /home partition
2572 [21:06:58] <at0m> < cbthree> personal files? i have a separate /home partition
2573 [21:07:03] <bitcoinmane> lol
2574 [21:07:14] <ratrace> cbthree: can you please do as Zabot_ asked?
2575 [21:07:16] <bitcoinmane> his /home partition is probably larger than /
2576 [21:07:19] <bitcoinmane> sounds like
2577 [21:07:20] <Zabot_> cbthree: Go ahread and run df -h and pastebin that for us too
2578 [21:07:25] *** Joins: Guest36270 (~not@replaced-ip )
2579 [21:07:26] <Primer> Why does it matter? Space is being used, and needs to be freed. It's simple.
2580 [21:07:37] <bitcoinmane> probably needs to reinstall better.
2581 [21:07:39] <bitcoinmane> lol
2582 [21:07:42] <bitcoinmane> or resize
2583 [21:07:49] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: do you really have to raid that enter key?
2584 [21:08:19] <bitcoinmane> ratrace, walk him through resizing his partitions. haha.
2585 [21:08:27] *** Joins: imp (~imp@replaced-ip )
2586 [21:08:47] <at0m> bitcoinmane: no. ratrace is asking cbthree to du first.
2587 [21:08:48] <gvth> jmcnaught: thanks
2588 [21:08:59] <at0m> bitcoinmane: makes total sense.
2589 [21:09:03] <bitcoinmane> yep
2590 [21:09:08] <bitcoinmane> i can bet thats his problem
2591 [21:09:22] <cbthree> bitcoinmane, my root partition is 7 gigabytes and my /home is 5 gigabytes. Believe it or not my /home partition is just 70% full
2592 [21:09:35] <bitcoinmane> oh
2593 [21:09:44] <ratrace> cbthree: if you're not gonna do ask asked by several people now, you're on your own. good luck.
2594 [21:09:48] <bitcoinmane> what is / at?
2595 [21:09:50] <ratrace> *do as asked
2596 [21:10:03] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip )
2597 [21:10:10] <bitcoinmane> did he install too many apps?
2598 [21:10:18] <at0m> < Zabot_> cbthree: Please run 'sudo du -sh /*' and pastebin it for us.
2599 [21:10:22] <bitcoinmane> yeah
2600 [21:10:24] <bitcoinmane> what he said
2601 [21:11:02] <bitcoinmane> cbthree, you need to pastebin these dudes outputs so you can see where the space is being used exactly.
2602 [21:11:04] <at0m> bitcoinmane you're wiping all useful tips from backlog with your "reinstall" "get bigger disk" nonsense
2603 [21:11:07] <Primer> You _can_ run that as a user, but it won't be accurate. Also, use -x
2604 [21:11:27] <Primer> du -hx --max-depth=1 /, IMO
2605 [21:12:14] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey guys i need to remap the 'action' that is normall done by ctrl+c..
2606 [21:12:25] <ratrace> there's also ncdu, very useful tool -- ncurses based du, nicely sorts down dirs by most used
2607 [21:12:44] <bitcoinmane> hes probably having trouble using pastebin.
2608 [21:12:46] <Primer> Eryn_1983_FL: that "action" is called a signal, SIGINT
2609 [21:12:53] <bitcoinmane> can debian not pastebin from command line still?
2610 [21:12:57] <Eryn_1983_FL> since i am maping ctrl+c to copy, i can no longer ctrl+c to cancel an command on the cli. now ctrl+C works but i have to use capslock..
2611 [21:13:06] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah i forgot name.
2612 [21:13:13] <Primer> bitcoinmane: apt install pastebinit?
2613 [21:13:15] <at0m> bitcoinmane: sure. nc, pastebinit
2614 [21:13:20] <bitcoinmane> yeah help him use that
2615 [21:13:21] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: no tools needed... <command with output> | nc termbin.com 9999
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2617 [21:13:57] <Zabot_> Eryn_1983_FL: You may be better off getting used to using ctrl+shift+c and ctrl+shift+v to copy paste out of a terminal. Most terminal emulators use that by default
2618 [21:14:06] <cbthree> replaced-url
2619 [21:14:15] <Primer> Eryn_1983_FL: what Zabot_ wrote ^^^
2620 [21:14:40] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok
2621 [21:14:47] <Zabot_> I find I use ctrl+c to sigint way more than copying anyway
2622 [21:15:01] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah but its annoying to do that zErOaCid
2623 [21:15:04] <Eryn_1983_FL> er Zabot_
2624 [21:15:12] <bitcoinmane> that's cool you guys finally added that. i didn't even know.
2625 [21:15:14] <Primer> surprise, it's all in /urs
2626 [21:15:15] <Eryn_1983_FL> i had it that way and i about went nuts swaping apps.
2627 [21:15:20] <Primer> /usr, that is
2628 [21:15:33] <bitcoinmane> it posts to debian website too? cool.
2629 [21:15:33] <Eryn_1983_FL> one would be shft+ctrl+c and the other ctrl+v
2630 [21:15:50] <Eryn_1983_FL> id try to do something in firefox and be doing the wrong combination,
2631 [21:15:57] <bitcoinmane> took you guys awhile to finally add it, no?
2632 [21:15:59] <Eryn_1983_FL> now i cant cancel a program
2633 [21:16:04] <bitcoinmane> seems like every other OS had it before us.
2634 [21:16:35] <Primer> Eryn_1983_FL: having used both for 20+ years, I found that adopting what Zabot_ wrote worked best for me. YMMV.
2635 [21:16:52] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
2636 [21:16:55] <Zabot_> Eryn_1983_FL: You're limited by the fact that ctrl+c can only do one action. So if you do want to keep it as copy, you'll need to rebind sigint
2637 [21:17:33] <Zabot_> Eryn_1983_FL: Actually, I've seen a couple terminal emulators that will automatically copy text to the clipboard when you select it, so thats an option to
2638 [21:17:52] *** Joins: eb0t (~eblip@replaced-ip )
2639 [21:18:16] <bitcoinmane> when did you guys add the pastebin app anyways?
2640 [21:18:45] <digdilem> cbthree, took you a long time to produce that paste, but yeah, I'm actually going to agree with bitcoinmane. 7gb is not going to be enough for you, you've installed qutie a few programs. Just re-do the machine with some sensible sizes.
2641 [21:18:45] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2642 [21:18:54] <Zabot_> cbthree: Can you give us 'du -hx --max-depth=1 /usr'
2643 [21:18:56] <Eryn_1983_FL> hmm
2644 [21:19:01] <bitcoinmane> HA
2645 [21:19:28] <bitcoinmane> i knew it
2646 [21:19:39] <bitcoinmane> he needs like 20 or 40 to really test Debian is why
2647 [21:20:07] <bitcoinmane> but, since that's not an option, he will need to wipe some apps, i guess.
2648 [21:20:08] <cbthree> digdilem, are you telling me to repartition the hd and re-install buster?
2649 [21:20:12] <bitcoinmane> or reinstall
2650 [21:20:23] <dokma> Anyone know how to switch virtual console from cli?
2651 [21:20:24] <bitcoinmane> i'd just do a reinstall bro
2652 [21:20:33] <Zabot_> cbthree: If you don't plan on ever installing any extra programs than what you start with, you could set up a compressed read only rootfs and use an external partition for your home
2653 [21:20:45] <bitcoinmane> nice.
2654 [21:20:56] <digdilem> cbthree, wipe and reinstall from scratch, probably. Stick everything in one partition if you don't have a reason not to (most people don't - the reasons are largely extinct now)
2655 [21:20:56] <Zabot_> cbthree: Thats pretty involved though
2656 [21:21:03] <bitcoinmane> cbthree, you got a thumb drive?
2657 [21:21:29] *** Quits: dokma (~vlatko@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2658 [21:21:51] <bitcoinmane> i'd say he needs to reinstall though. it will help him learn. then install less apps. if it happens again, reinstall, install less apps. till he figures it out.
2659 [21:22:27] <bitcoinmane> wont hurt him to reinstall the OS till he is blue in the face
2660 [21:22:53] <at0m> !reinstall
2661 [21:22:53] <dpkg> i guess reinstall is aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>.
2662 [21:22:54] <digdilem> idd. we've all buggered up parititons and systems, it's part of learning
2663 [21:23:01] <bitcoinmane> yep
2664 [21:23:07] <cbthree> replaced-url
2665 [21:23:12] <bitcoinmane> ive wipped entire systems when i was learning that were in production. LOL
2666 [21:23:13] *** Quits: r0x (~r0x@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2667 [21:23:14] <at0m> ouch was more hoping for a "this isnt windows" reinstall answer
2668 [21:23:39] <bitcoinmane> there's only 1 way for him to learn the OS though.
2669 [21:23:41] <at0m> bitcoinmane: why am i not surprised :p
2670 [21:23:56] <at0m> bitcoinmane: yes. fix problems, not reinstall.
2671 [21:23:58] <bitcoinmane> i was playing roulette. what can i say? :)
2672 [21:24:07] <bitcoinmane> it's up to him.
2673 [21:24:20] <bitcoinmane> he needs to learn all of it.
2674 [21:24:51] <at0m> bitcoinmane: plenty folks that are chatty in #debian-offtopic
2675 [21:24:58] *** Joins: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2676 [21:25:00] <bitcoinmane> i, personally learned by reinstalling until i was blue in the face.
2677 [21:25:39] <bitcoinmane> thanks
2678 [21:25:46] <ratrace> cbthree: I'd say you simply have too much stuff installed for that 7G. you'll have to decide which programs to remove. Which DE are you using? Something big like GNOME and KDE?
2679 [21:26:06] <bitcoinmane> probably. xfce would be better for him. or nothing at all.
2680 [21:26:09] <cbthree> ratrace, MATE
2681 [21:26:26] *** Parts: Eryn_1983_FL (~Eryn_1983@replaced-ip ) ("WeeChat 2.3")
2682 [21:26:29] <cbthree> i will not uninstall MATE
2683 [21:26:49] <bitcoinmane> which GUI are you using mate?
2684 [21:26:51] *** Joins: Eryn_1983_FL (~Eryn_1983@replaced-ip )
2685 [21:26:52] <ratrace> cbthree: what else? chrome? libreoffice? noto fonts?
2686 [21:27:09] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: har har, that joke is worn out
2687 [21:27:22] <bitcoinmane> which joke?
2688 [21:27:32] <ratrace> the mate joke, mate
2689 [21:27:56] <bitcoinmane> have him install xfce instead, no?
2690 [21:28:06] <cbthree> i use firefox and libreoffice on daily basis
2691 [21:28:24] <bitcoinmane> he doesn't even know if its kde or gnome.
2692 [21:28:25] *** Joins: Oksana (~Wikiwide@replaced-ip )
2693 [21:28:30] *** Quits: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2694 [21:28:39] <cbthree> i also use all the other programs that i have installed on more or less a daily basis
2695 [21:28:49] <bitcoinmane> should be an option in the installer to install xfce instead for light systems.
2696 [21:29:12] *** Quits: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2697 [21:29:31] <lord_chris> JWM is a good alternative for light systems
2698 [21:29:44] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: he said it was MATE
2699 [21:29:51] <bitcoinmane> can we get better options for light systems in the installer though?
2700 [21:29:55] *** Joins: han_ (~han@replaced-ip )
2701 [21:30:14] <ratrace> sorry *they said.... I make no assumptions
2702 [21:30:14] <bitcoinmane> please?
2703 [21:30:15] <cbthree> lord_chris, i have already said i will not uninstall ANY of the programs that i have installed since i use them on a daily basis
2704 [21:30:23] *** Joins: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip )
2705 [21:30:33] <ratrace> cbthree: you're out of options then
2706 [21:30:37] *** Joins: kogiku (~kogiku@replaced-ip )
2707 [21:30:48] <bitcoinmane> have him get rid of gnome or kde and go with something lighter.
2708 [21:31:06] <bitcoinmane> can we not get that option in the installer, please?
2709 [21:31:15] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: which part of they use mate-desktop-environment, don't you understand?
2710 [21:31:34] <bitcoinmane> i see. not familiar with that i guess.
2711 [21:31:40] <bitcoinmane> it's called mate?
2712 [21:31:42] <cbthree> bitcoinmane, i have not installed kde/gnome and therefore i can not remove them
2713 [21:31:53] <bitcoinmane> is mate lightweight?
2714 [21:31:55] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: replaced-url
2715 [21:32:17] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: it's basically forked gnome 2
2716 [21:32:23] <bitcoinmane> get rid of it then!
2717 [21:32:28] <ratrace> + the whole ecosystem of its own it developed
2718 [21:32:33] *** Quits: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2719 [21:32:44] <han_> hi
2720 [21:32:48] <bitcoinmane> can we get an option for xfce or something lightweight in the installer, please? lol
2721 [21:32:50] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2722 [21:33:00] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: there already is.
2723 [21:33:04] <bitcoinmane> cool.
2724 [21:33:19] <Mathisen> you could also just install the base system and then manual install what you want
2725 [21:33:31] <lord_chris> cbthree, I installed my system form terminal with only JWM and my favorite apps and my total install was 4GiB
2726 [21:33:36] <bitcoinmane> how does he go about switching from mate to xfce then?
2727 [21:33:43] *** Joins: joszi (joszi@replaced-ip )
2728 [21:33:48] <ratrace> they don't with out of space situation like this
2729 [21:33:50] <bitcoinmane> or JWM?
2730 [21:34:06] <bitcoinmane> so he has to wipe out the GUI, right? to base?
2731 [21:34:13] *** Quits: walterve (~walterve@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2732 [21:34:13] <cbthree> lord_chris, good for you but not for me since i use mate and am very happy with it
2733 [21:34:33] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip )
2734 [21:34:33] <bitcoinmane> cbthree, you either have to uninstall apps, or change your GUI to something lightweight.
2735 [21:35:04] <ratrace> cbthree: you're out of options; you'll need to make some hard decisions.
2736 [21:35:34] <lord_chris> cbthree, JWM is very similar to xfce in look and feel, but without the bloatware
2737 [21:35:53] <cbthree> or repartition and re-install. Buster is the only OS on my computer. What is the minimum size of /boot/efi that i can get away with on buster?
2738 [21:36:03] <Mathisen> cbthree, have you deleted your browser cache ? that can take some serius space
2739 [21:36:08] <cbthree> My /boot/efi is 512MB
2740 [21:36:14] <cbthree> at present
2741 [21:36:20] <ratrace> I wouldn't go lower
2742 [21:36:55] *** Quits: TheWizard (~thewizard@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
2743 [21:36:56] <cbthree> My /boot/efi is just 1% full
2744 [21:37:24] <ratrace> cbthree: reducing it would be like putting band-aid on a gaping wound
2745 [21:38:16] <ratrace> cbthree: what are other partitions on that drive? /home?
2746 [21:38:23] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2747 [21:38:50] <cbthree> If i recreate my /boot/efi and make it 256MB i would be gaining 256MB which woul make my new / partition 89% full
2748 [21:39:09] <Primer> desperate
2749 [21:39:23] <bitcoinmane> if it was me, i'd blow everything away. install a base system, then install xfce and be done with it.
2750 [21:39:40] <cbthree> desperate but not serious (C) 1982
2751 [21:39:49] <ratrace> cbthree: if EFI is before root in sector numbers, then no
2752 [21:40:26] <cbthree> gotta go. thanks guys. will be back some other time
2753 [21:40:48] <ratrace> with a bigger disk hopefully :)
2754 [21:41:02] <bitcoinmane> ha. he could use a thumb drive, copy the disk, then reinstall.
2755 [21:41:16] <bitcoinmane> if hes that worried about losing anything.
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2758 [21:41:57] <filipg> hi
2759 [21:42:10] *** Joins: marek_ (~marek@replaced-ip )
2760 [21:42:47] *** Joins: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2761 [21:42:57] <ratrace> bitcoinmane: btw do you know how much space MATE uses?
2762 [21:42:58] *** Joins: somazero (~somazero@replaced-ip )
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2765 [21:43:48] <bitcoinmane> no
2766 [21:43:56] <bitcoinmane> i would be headless tho
2767 [21:44:01] <ratrace> so what are you basing your suggestion to drop mate in favor of xfce?
2768 [21:44:05] <bitcoinmane> rarely use xfce
2769 [21:44:15] <bitcoinmane> because i like xfce better, period.
2770 [21:44:31] <bitcoinmane> on something like that hes better using it headlesss.
2771 [21:44:38] *** Quits: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2772 [21:44:53] <bitcoinmane> how much bigger is mate than xfce?
2773 [21:44:56] <ratrace> right. they'll just receive UI graphics telepathically.
2774 [21:45:19] <bitcoinmane> you want the truth? he should just throw that chromebook junk away.
2775 [21:45:25] <bitcoinmane> who has time for that?
2776 [21:45:58] <bitcoinmane> the time he wastes fooling with it, he could take his ass to work and buy something decent.
2777 [21:46:17] <bitcoinmane> he can buy a used elitebook on ebay for like 50-100 bucks.
2778 [21:47:38] <digdilem> did we in this channel really spend well over an hour repeatedly telling someone their disk was too small?
2779 [21:47:54] <digdilem> if that was a troll he did well
2780 [21:48:09] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2781 [21:48:10] <humpled> another option would be a custom live build with persistence, squashfs is quite a bit smaller
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2785 [21:49:40] <bitcoinmane> either he was poor, or a troll, yes.
2786 [21:49:43] <bitcoinmane> some shit i would do.
2787 [21:49:47] <humpled> but yer, once you add firefox and libreoffice, the difference between jwm/openbox and mate/xfce is trivial
2788 [21:49:52] <ratrace> squashfs wouldn't compress much out of it though
2789 [21:50:27] <humpled> well the isos are 2.5GB but won't install to 5GB
2790 [21:50:40] <ratrace> actually it would... looking at my root zfs datasets, compressratio is 1.5-1.9
2791 [21:50:44] *** Joins: xedniv (~xedniv@replaced-ip )
2792 [21:51:46] <ratrace> but anyway, this was a ridiculous issue. 7G is way too small for a desktop system with things like mate, libreoffice, firefox
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2796 [21:52:37] <ratrace> mate alone takes 2.8G according to the installation manual appendix D.2, and xfce ain't much smaller, only ~500MB
2797 [21:52:52] <ratrace> (500 smaller, thus 2.3G)
2798 [21:52:54] *** Quits: joszi (joszi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2799 [21:53:06] <ratrace> noto fonts alone take around 1G
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2805 [21:55:04] <bitcoinmane> he was trying to recover 256mb
2806 [21:55:06] <bitcoinmane> lol
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2845 [22:07:50] <lord_chris> ratrace, JWM is about 1.2MiB
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2924 [22:19:47] <r00tCr4zy> #offsec
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2975 [22:50:22] <Eryn_1983_FL> xrdb ~/.Xdefaults
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3045 [23:41:11] *** Parts: KombuchaKip (~KombuchaK@replaced-ip ) ("Yarrr!!!")
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3051 [23:44:31] <gvth> I haven't shut down my Debian laptop for weeks (only suspend and hibernate). How do I find out whether there is a new kernel (linu-image) installed that would be used upon the next reboot?
3052 [23:45:28] <filipg> m
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3057 [23:48:41] <ChmEarl> gvth, check symlinks in /
3058 [23:49:00] <gvth> ChmEarl: please be a little more specific
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3066 [23:50:39] <gvth> ChmEarl: Ah, "ls -lah /" outputs the line "lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Sep 7 22:58 vmlinuz -> boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-11-amd64". So this is the new kernel that would be booted. Thanks
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3070 [23:52:00] <ChmEarl> gvth, cheers
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3072 [23:54:29] <hop> gvth: not necessarily… your boot loader could point to another kenerl
3073 [23:54:32] <hop> kernel
3074 [23:54:37] <hop> gvth: why are you asking?
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