103[01:12:12] <Lady_Aleena> Sanity check needed: I opened MenuLibre to futz around with my applications menu. MenuLibre listed several .desktop files with issues. Two of those files are in /usr/share/applications/kde4 and both try to execute programs that are not on my system. Should I clean up after kde4 and delete those two .desktop files?
116[01:27:31] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: when such things happen I put on my sysadmin at, and say I'm the sysadmin, its my purview to do such things.. however you may want to figure out where they came from and why they're still there
118[01:28:32] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: dpkg -S will tell you if anything currently installed claims them, apt-file or packages.debian.org or such can tell you what may have installed them, you can cross ref that with the apt history log and such
119[01:28:55] <Lady_Aleena> nvs, they came from kde. I've never used them, so getting rid of the .desktop files to a program that I can't find anywhere in /usr.
149[01:33:24] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
150[01:33:33] <humpled> john of nepomuk is the saint of Bohemia who drowned in the river Vltava
151[01:33:58] <humpled> NEPOMUK is an open-source software specification that is concerned with the development of a social semantic desktop that enriches and interconnects data ...
153[01:34:08] <nvz> Networked Environment for Personal, Ontology-based Management of Unified Knowledge
154[01:34:14] <nvz> @.@
155[01:34:33] <Lady_Aleena> nvz, when you said I was using too many characters, I take it you were talking about the grep?
156[01:34:54] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: this is something probably leftover from stretch
157[01:35:11] <Lady_Aleena> nvz, I've seen it since wheezy.
158[01:35:16] <nvz> ,file nepomuk --suite stretch
159[01:35:16] <judd> (file <pattern> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>] [--regex | --exact]) -- Returns packages that include files matching <pattern> which, by default, is interpreted as a glob (see glob(7)). If --regex is given, the pattern is treated as a extended regex (see regex(7); note not PCRE!). If --exact is given, the exact filename is required. The current stable release and amd64 are searched by default.
164[01:35:54] <Lady_Aleena> ,file nepomukbachup -- suite stretch
165[01:35:56] <judd> (file <pattern> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>] [--regex | --exact]) -- Returns packages that include files matching <pattern> which, by default, is interpreted as a glob (see glob(7)). If --regex is given, the pattern is treated as a extended regex (see regex(7); note not PCRE!). If --exact is given, the exact filename is required. The current stable release and amd64 are searched by
166[01:35:56] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: either way its probably cruft leftover from before an upgrade to another dist
169[01:36:10] <humpled> If you upgraded to KDE Applications 4.13 from an earlier KDE release, you can delete $KDEHOME/share/apps/nepomuk.
170[01:36:32] <Lady_Aleena> I don't even use KDE anymore.
171[01:36:33] <nvz> Lady_Aleena: and the point is dpkg-query -l is same as dpkg -l so the -query isnt needed and | grep package isnt needed cause dpkg -l accepts arguments
201[01:43:37] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
202[01:43:46] <Lady_Aleena> nvz, I am not THAT proficient with perl according to some.
203[01:44:50] <Lady_Aleena> I still take the long way around to get what I want with perl probably.
204[01:44:59] <Lady_Aleena> Just like with linux.
205[01:45:08] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
206[01:45:29] <nvz> yeah well I've been using computer for like 30 years now.. many different platforms, commandline on all of them.. bash on linux for nearly 20 now.. and my use of perl has been limited to occasional oneliner expressions and slight changes to irssi scripts
207[01:45:52] <nvz> I just dont see how you could learn a language like perl without a certain degree of cli knowledge
208[01:46:15] <Lady_Aleena> I started writing perl when I was still on Windows XP, and most of my work with perl is to make things work in a browser.
217[01:48:47] <Lady_Aleena> So, working on the command line wasn't a priority for me. But now I am working on the command line more often, I am trying to learn how to use it better than I have before without having to open a gui program. For example, I was trying to move files around my $HOME, and I kept messing it up. I had to open Dolphin (a gui file manager) to fix my mistakes on the command line. I am still upset that I can't get such simple commands as mv to
224[01:52:09] <nvz> yeah well mv is one of those commands like rm you dont want to be playing around with until you got the hang of simpler things like cp
225[01:52:12] <nvz> heh
226[01:52:30] <annadane> alias mv="mv -i" alias rm="rm -i"
236[01:59:13] <swift110> so with regards debian netinstall what does that entail?
237[01:59:33] <Lady_Aleena> So, yes, I will probably be amazed at a lot of things for a while to come.
238[02:00:15] <swift110> Lady_Aleena, the command line is awesome
239[02:00:27] <swift110> install figlet and you'll see
240[02:00:28] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: those commands will only persist in that shell. In your ~/.bashrc you have those aliases already, you just need to un-comment them.
241[02:00:42] <Lady_Aleena> swift110, it is also intimidating.
242[02:01:06] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
296[02:31:23] <karlpinc> swift110: The netinstall boots, runs, and downloads only what you ask to be installed. Otherwise, to know how to use it I would suggest reading the debian install guide at debian.org. Especially when it comes to how to copy the netinstall image to bootable media.
297[02:33:22] *** Quits: donofrio_ (~donofrio@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
299[02:33:49] <swift110> oh ok cool karlpinc see I was under the impression that you could just have an internet connection and install directly from there
308[02:38:59] <nvz> there used to be a boot.kernel.org but afaik the only ones still doing such a thing is the fedora project
309[02:39:42] <nvz> only means of booting over the internet really is PXE which requires a wired network card with a PXE bios and a tftp server hosting an installer and a dhcp server that points to it
312[02:42:13] <SerajewelKS> apt-secure(8) says: "Since version 1.5 the user must therefore explicitly confirm changes to signal that the user is sufficiently prepared e.g. for the new major release of the distribution shipped in the repository (as e.g. indicated by the codename)."
313[02:42:21] <SerajewelKS> boy would it be great if the manpage actually told you _how to fucking do that_
314[02:43:03] <nvz> it will let you know if its required
315[02:43:31] <SerajewelKS> yep, it did
316[02:43:42] <nvz> if you were using buster prior to its release, you'd see a message that says the apt suite has changed.. apt would just ask you a y/n about it apt-get would tell you what to do
317[02:43:46] <SerajewelKS> told me to look at man apt-secure(8)
318[02:44:00] <nvz> !apt suite changed
319[02:44:01] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
320[02:44:32] <SerajewelKS> see now that would be really helpful information to include in the output
321[02:44:38] <nvz> its also the first bit of the topic of the channel
322[02:44:58] <SerajewelKS> indeed and it's also a different repository, not related to stretch->buster
325[02:45:28] <SerajewelKS> all apt-get update says is "N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details." which let me down the rabbit trail that lacks information about how to accomplish this
326[02:45:47] <SerajewelKS> "look at this doc that doesn't answer your question" -- bit infuriating, really
330[02:47:17] <SerajewelKS> ah right, we must all use the magical new tool to avoid confusing error messages. makes sense.
331[02:47:44] <nvz> it has super cow powers
332[02:47:49] <SerajewelKS> the warning message from apt-get should at least tell you what to do
333[02:48:46] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
334[02:48:47] <SerajewelKS> _or_ the manpage it directs you to should give you some idea as well. apt-secure(8) pretty much just tells you that this "feature" exists which isn't much more helpful than the warning from apt-get, so i'm not sure why apt-get tells you to read the manpage.
339[02:50:25] <SerajewelKS> not trying to just bellyache. i'm an RTFM guy. it's just annoying when the FM doesn't actually have the information you're looking for and doesn't tell you where to look for it.
421[04:27:26] <dvs> saul, or you could use the firmware installer...
422[04:27:54] <renrelkha> i have an old pogoplug (arm) that i have previously installed arch linux on but seems at some point i converted to debian. i want to make sure it is as updated as i can be . apt sources.list contains only the following uncommented line.
429[04:32:13] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
430[04:33:12] <SerajewelKS> renrelkha: converted how, by reinstalling with the debian installer?
431[04:34:20] <SerajewelKS> i'm not even sure how you'd convert an arch install to debian in-place
432[04:34:54] <renrelkha> i am not sure maybe i did not and i am just confused right now
459[04:53:47] <renrelkha> i am so very confused. is arch linux a debian based distro
460[04:54:13] <SerajewelKS> renrelkha: no, it doesn't even use the same package manager nor the same binary format for packages
461[04:54:36] <SerajewelKS> even if it were, there is no process to "convert" a debian-based distro to debian
462[04:55:13] <SerajewelKS> the advice you're going to get for "how should i convert from distro X to distro Y" is almost always going to be "use distro Y's installer and wipe out distro X's partitions" no
463[04:55:19] <SerajewelKS> _no matter what X and Y are_
477[05:02:10] <renrelkha> i can imagine it is like a broken record and that may indeed be what i am also. but i am not sure yet. it has been many years since i did the initial install i thought it was arch i may be mistaken. i did get it out a few months ago and by the list of previous commands i had installed curl and apt and edited sources.list aptget clean update upgrade then more editing of sources update upgrade and poweroff
478[05:03:22] <renrelkha> it does say debian gnu after login
479[05:03:34] <renrelkha> but lsb_release is not valid command
480[05:03:54] <SerajewelKS> arch doesn't even use apt
481[05:03:59] <SerajewelKS> does /etc/debian_version exist?
491[05:08:15] <renrelkha> update gives a bunch of "W: Ignoring Provides line with DepCompareOp for package " errors
492[05:09:02] <renrelkha> those do not matter?
493[05:10:37] <SerajewelKS> ... you shouldn't get those errors with debian 9.9
494[05:10:42] <SerajewelKS> !bat
495[05:10:43] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
532[05:38:23] <SerajewelKS> renrelkha: what version does "dpkg -l apt" say
533[05:38:40] <SerajewelKS> oh yuck, you're using release aliases in your sources.list
534[05:38:49] <SerajewelKS> e.g. "stable". don't do that. pick a release.
535[05:39:19] <SerajewelKS> if you use the aliases, whenever there is a new debian release, surprise! you're going to upgrade to it even if you're not ready!
536[05:39:40] <SerajewelKS> release upgrades are things you should plan for, not things that should just happen to you
558[05:44:55] <nvz> anyone using httpredir.debian.org should switch to deb.debian.org its the newest CDN name, the httpredir will likely expire eventually
559[05:45:14] <SerajewelKS> different topic: i have a 6TB HDD RAID1 (mdadm) with volumes on top of LVM. i'm considering adding a small pair of SSDs as an LVM cache in writeback mode to improve write performance. would a cheap pair of consumer SSDs suffice for this task?
560[05:45:16] *** Quits: astronavt (~astronavt@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
562[05:46:18] <SerajewelKS> i can get some consumer HP 120GB SSDs for $24 each
563[05:46:18] <nvz> I'm sure anything would be better than nothing.. though the better the SSD likely the better the performance.. and pcie are usually faster than sata
564[05:46:50] <SerajewelKS> i'm much less worried about performance than i am about reliability. obviously the SSDs would be put into a RAID1 as writeback cache isn't safe without being redundant.
565[05:47:23] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
566[05:47:39] <SerajewelKS> i don't suppose there's some mechanism i can use to tie the SSD RAID1 to the LVM cache such that if the cache becomes degraded, the LVM cache is automatically disabled (or put into writethrough mode)
567[05:47:39] *** Quits: astronavt (~astronavt@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
569[05:48:31] <nvz> I've never used such a setup and I'm farily newly expeienced to SSDs but that laptop I'd sold my cousin with a 32gb m.2 pcie ssd in it just died altogether on him recently and I had to reinstall to the sata hdd he used for /home so I would not trust any sketchy ssd for reliability :P
570[05:48:32] <SerajewelKS> i'm thinking that literally any SSD writeback cache is going to be faster than the HDDs themselves, i just don't want to put the underlying volume in jeopardy
571[05:48:51] <SerajewelKS> right. well that's where the RAID1 would hopefully come in.
573[05:49:11] <SerajewelKS> i'm not sure how likely it is that both SSDs would die at the same time. they'd be under identical load.
574[05:49:51] <nvz> depending on how sketchy they are it may be really likey from what I've heard
575[05:50:08] <SerajewelKS> would it be wise to use a single SSD as a cache in writethrough mode for a few weeks to try to shrink its expected lifetime, then RAID them and turn on writeback?
576[05:50:18] <SerajewelKS> the hope being the one dies a few weeks before the other :P
577[05:50:23] <nvz> I read recently that certain sketchy ssd (dont recall which ones) had an issue where they just crapped the bed at exactly a certain amount of uptime
579[05:50:51] <SerajewelKS> but again if i can cause array degredation to kick the cache out... as long as the failing drive is actually kicked from the array, that could automatically disable the cache?
580[05:50:57] <nvz> it was either uptime or write cycles I dont recall which
581[05:51:03] <nvz> but either would be a concern in your use case
582[05:51:42] <nvz> that I can't answer as I haven't used such a setup.. but maybe you could forward the concern to the debian-user mailinlist
583[05:52:06] <karlpinc> SerajewelKS: I've always looked at "man lvmcache". There's a section on device failure.
584[05:52:09] <SerajewelKS> maybe server fault would have some ideas too
614[06:18:55] <SerajewelKS> nvz: i don't suppose pcie ssds are hotplug though... that's a problem for a system that needs to be up. i can't repair the cache online without hotplug.
724[07:53:44] <nvz> yeah idk.. for this channel asking production server type scenarios that arent normal support questions but more something that'd require experience with specific use cases, you're about 4-6hrs early. :D
728[07:54:28] <nvz> and really such things are better for mailing lists and forums as you'll reach a wider audience and get responses even after a question in irc is long out of the scrollback buffer
733[07:56:42] *** Quits: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
734[07:57:16] <SerajewelKS> if i go the sata route (safer, sata hotplug support is ubiquitous nowadays) then i need a sata card and also have to figure out how to get additional sata power connectors :/
760[08:06:40] <tallship> Just installed Debian 10 from netinst w/non-free for the firmware on a six year old hp2000 and installed gnome when the system came up it had hibenation issues and a blank screen.
761[08:06:42] <SerajewelKS> the HDDs use ~5.3 watts peak so i think two SSDs wouldn't kill a 350 watt PSU
775[08:11:49] <SerajewelKS> jim: besides motherboard and memory?
776[08:12:04] <tallship> I tried inserting the UUID of /dev/sda3 into /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume and added that to grub and then updated the initramfs. that didn't work, and finally just did a systemctl mask all of the sleep hibernate, etc. There's nothing else on this laptop. completely fresh install and the only OS
779[08:13:24] <tallship> I'm wondering what to try next other than attempt to remove gnome completely and install plasma or Xfce or something. Any suggestions?
785[08:16:13] *** Quits: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
786[08:16:38] <tallship> everything including networking is fine it's just that the console with gnome is blank with those hibernation issues. What can I look at next, or do, to get a gui up?
789[08:17:25] *** Quits: empty_string (emptystrin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Disconnecting from server)
790[08:18:59] <tallship> Even after doing a systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target followed by systemctl restart systemd-logind.service I still have a blank screen on the gnome desktop. I'm not sure what to try next
791[08:19:03] <SerajewelKS> nvz: also, don't forget to smash that subscribe button
805[08:23:04] <tallship> echo "RESUME=a46b41b2-38c7-47f7-a1117-4da1f88d2dc9" | tee /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume followed by inserting GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet resume=a46b41b2-38c7-47f7-a1117-4da1f88d2dc9" into grub and then update-initramfs -u -k all was what I tried first
806[08:23:16] <SerajewelKS> nvz: when he gets really excited he sounds like michael scott
807[08:23:33] <tallship> before I tried to disable all of the hibernation and sleep
808[08:24:02] <tallship> I'm not sure what to try next. Any ideas?
809[08:25:24] <jim> SerajewelKS, yeah, what is there besides the drives, the mobo and the ram?
877[09:03:56] <SerajewelKS> tallship: hibernation issues tend to be very hardware-specific... it's unlikely you'll get an answer especially as most of the USA is asleep right now
885[09:06:24] <tallship> jim: yes it boots up just fine, and I'm hampered by the fact that it's my nephews laptop and my support is remote to him via chat lol.
886[09:06:26] *** Quits: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
887[09:06:55] <tallship> SerajewelKS: Yes I'm finding that this is a real bear to track down.
890[09:08:25] <SerajewelKS> FWIW i've been a linux user since ~2001 and sleep/hibernate has _always_ been iffy
891[09:08:38] <SerajewelKS> at least for me
892[09:08:42] <tallship> Basically, it boots fine, and I've googled for solutions but the two main solutions that I posted above are not working (the UUID of /dev/sda3 (SWAP) in the resume file and grub), and disabling hybernation, which he doesn't care about anyway.
893[09:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1514
894[09:09:07] <SerajewelKS> i'd just disable hibernation if he doesn't care about it
895[09:09:12] <SerajewelKS> it's not worth the headache
897[09:09:44] <SerajewelKS> it doesn't sound like the problem is the system unable to locate the swap volume
898[09:09:52] <SerajewelKS> if that were the case you wouldn't even be getting to gnome
899[09:10:04] <tallship> Yes I hate hibernation and sleep. Waking has it's own problems, time/date, etc., and I'm usually on a cli anyway so most machines of mine don't have even X installed.
900[09:10:04] <SerajewelKS> the kernel would either boot normally (without resuming) or would panic
907[09:13:32] <tallship> I had him do the systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target followed by systemctl restart systemd-logind.service but no joy
911[09:16:03] <tallship> I'm thinking systemctl isolate multi-user.target to switch to run-level 3 and then either startx (if that still works) or systemctl isolate graphical.target to go back to run-level five. he's on his way home and I'll resume trying to help him in a few.
1001[10:06:23] <pldiem> can I downgrade nvidia or something?
1002[10:06:29] <nvz> !pastebin.com
1003[10:06:30] <dpkg> pastebin.com mangles input, takes forever to load, is full of js, often makes us enter a CAPTCHA to see your paste and fills the screen with ads. Please use a different site, like replaced-url
1012[10:09:56] <pldiem> you're right, I checked my alias 'pastebinit -b pastebin.com'
1013[10:10:01] <nvz> :P
1014[10:10:08] <pldiem> now I am quite sure that default didn't work for me
1015[10:10:14] <pldiem> back then
1016[10:10:21] <pldiem> maybe it will work now
1017[10:10:28] <pldiem> I will check later
1018[10:10:42] <nvz> yeah well pastebinit isn't required anyhow as I showed in the above command, netcat works just fine.. and is usually installed on most systems already
1027[10:13:00] <BCMM> pldiem: the debian pastebin doesn't like very short pastes, so it tends to fail when you test it, but then work when you actually use it
1061[10:21:25] <nvz> that one wasnt real important though unless we were gonna run this way down.. really the first command apt policy puts it beyond the scope of this channel..
1062[10:21:48] <nvz> the dmesg one though would likely show more of the problem
1063[10:22:00] <nvz> cause I'm sure the kernel had something to say about that
1064[10:22:07] <nvz> !testing
1065[10:22:08] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See replaced-url
1068[10:22:33] <pldiem> and there are xserver entries
1069[10:22:41] <pldiem> dpkg -l xserver
1070[10:22:42] <dpkg> No packages found matching xserver
1071[10:22:45] <pldiem> returns one entry
1072[10:22:54] <pldiem> I have some issue with asterisk
1073[10:23:12] <nvz> pldiem: here we recommend people use stable.. and you obviously if you ran into this issue and can't debug it beyond what you have, this is one reason why.. its also still early after a release and testing is probably still a bit slushy
1077[10:24:05] <jim> you might try dpkg --get-selections | grep xserver
1078[10:24:27] <nvz> testing isn't some place we hide all the cool shiny new toys from the kids.. its intended for use by people who are actually testing the distro and reporting bugs and such
1084[10:27:06] <nvz> if you had it working, that suggests your hardware is supported and you were able to get it working.. if you want it to stay that way, then yeah.. use stable :D
1085[10:27:30] <nvz> if you wanna debug a testing breakage go to irc.oftc.net join #debian-next and compile a useful log the way I showed you
1088[10:28:44] <nvz> the apt policy was to see what kinda weirdness you may have done (you're using testing and a bunch third party repos), the dpkg -l xserver* nvidia* was to see what versions specifically of the related packages to the breakage, the lspci -nn was to see what hardware was releated to the breakage, and the dmesg was to see what they kernel side had said about the issue
1089[10:28:56] <klys> why is oom-kill disabled by default, and the oom-kill function of the magic sysrq key disabled by default?
1090[10:29:10] <pldiem> eh I supposed to be working right now :/
1091[10:29:34] <nvz> pldiem: you mean this machine is something you use for WORK?
1092[10:29:42] <pldiem> yeap
1093[10:29:47] <nvz> @.@
1094[10:29:58] <nvz> all the more reason you shouldn't be using testing on it :P
1095[10:30:39] <pldiem> but on stable I had so old packages for example git, that I just had to switch
1098[10:31:52] <klys> and /bin/login loads, does not show "login: ", and times out after 60 seconds
1099[10:32:29] <nvz> pldiem: there are other ways of dealing with that.. testing isn't the first resort
1100[10:32:59] <nvz> pldiem: you should've come here for support with those kinda issues.. the kind of issue you brought to us just makes us feel sorry for you and tell you to go install stable or go to #debian-next
1122[10:37:52] <nvz> klys: "Unfortunately, it is possible that the system is not out memory and simply needs to wait for IO to complete or for pages to be swapped to backing storage. This is unfortunate, not because the system has memory, but because the function is being called unnecessarily opening the possibly of processes being unnecessarily killed." replaced-url
1123[10:38:15] <klys> well there's this problem with /bin/login when thrashing.
1130[10:39:19] *** Quits: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1131[10:39:36] <ksk> Could you not impose a memory limit on $daemon via systemd unit though nowadays - if you have something in your setup that tends to eat too much memory
1132[10:39:45] <klys> you shouldn't agree with oxymorons and say you're rayional
1133[10:39:49] <ksk> If you cannot tell the app in the first place, of course
1134[10:39:54] <nvz> you're not suppose to OOM, is kinda the point.. if its PEBCAK/PICNIC, replace user and bang head off keyboard to continue..
1136[10:42:38] <pldiem> nvz: thanks for your help and explanation
1137[10:42:43] <nvz> this is all just sounding like a MISPWOSO Herring Sandwich experiment
1138[10:43:33] <nvz> pldiem: if you need a newer package.. especially if its some simple tool like git, not like an entire DE or something, getting it is trivial without upgrading your whole system to testing and interrupting your work when it breaks
1139[10:45:12] <nvz> pldiem: you check backports.org, if its not there, then you can try a ssb, if thats not feasible you could do a schroot, some things you can even manually install from another branch without issues, there are many options.. these are only a few.. you come here and say hey.. I need a newer foo for my work.. and we help you figure it out
1143[10:46:02] <nvz> if you needed say a 5.x kernel and newer firmware.. those could be manually fetched from packages.debian.org and safely installed with dpkg -i for example cause they have no depends outside stable
1144[10:46:24] <nvz> pldiem: downgrading isn't and has never been supported
1145[10:46:47] <nvz> there have however been proposals for how to attempt it, but I would just reinstal personally
1146[10:46:47] *** Quits: HotBeefDip (HotBeefDip@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1147[10:46:52] <Haohmaru> you should've taken the blue pill
1148[10:47:39] <nvz> pldiem: if you wanted to do this later, and just try get the system back up and running by rolling back what b0rked in the upgrade, you really should be going to OFTC and joining #debian-next
1149[10:48:04] <nvz> pldiem: and figuring out what EXACTLY was upgraded (hint: /var/log/apt/history.log)
1150[10:48:09] <pldiem> I am there, but no answer yet
1219[11:37:29] <tallship> SerajewelKS: Hey thanks for that suggestion/hint - I went and got the firmware for the amdgpu and installed that and most (but not all) of the listings of missing firmware items were alleviated, GNOME came right up after a reboot.
1223[11:39:28] <tallship> He already had a bit of experience from me having him run Slackware64 Live, and his friends were all in awe, had never seen anything like Plasma before lolz, but I figured for a real install he should run Buster.
1224[11:39:43] <tallship> Thanks again, hope you get the message :)
1255[12:13:09] <talin> argh, so they deviate and i'll have to deal with both
1256[12:13:15] *** Quits: r1nt3c (~r1nt3c@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1257[12:13:20] <tarzeau> no you can just install it
1258[12:13:23] <tarzeau> and use it
1259[12:14:11] <talin> yeah, i just like to use the stuff that debian comes with by default... or what most distros use, rather. but ubuntu at work, and they always roll something that doesn't work on other distros (ufw, netplan...)
1264[12:15:08] *** Quits: dowwie (~dowwie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1265[12:15:20] <dunz0r> Is there a way to "reconfigure" the entire install? I'm creating a template for installs in my vmware-cluster, don't want shared ssh-keys, system-uuids etc
1266[12:15:33] <talin> tarzeau: right!
1267[12:15:41] <dunz0r> I know how to do it all by hand, but is there some sort of way to "redo" the startup configuration?
1268[12:15:54] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1269[12:16:01] <dunz0r> As in set the system "uninitialized" so that it reconfigures itself on the next startup
1354[13:32:50] <mystic> well. works for people who know how
1355[13:33:40] <mystic> for me the word is: uncharted
1356[13:33:44] <jelly> !why debian
1357[13:33:44] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
1358[13:33:49] <jelly> !why not debian
1359[13:34:00] <mystic> !why maybe debian
1360[13:34:12] <jelly> there is no maybe.
1361[13:34:13] *** Quits: bugsi (52e45e6f@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1362[13:34:27] <humpled> asks for one word, says a word is too complicated, sorry!
1363[13:35:02] <humpled> don't you know the song, it teaches you to not be afraid of things you don't understand yet
1364[13:35:04] <mystic> i said i liked it
1365[13:35:26] <jelly> dpkg: ping
1366[13:35:26] <dpkg> Sorry jelly, you're not online.
1375[13:38:05] <mystic> if you want me to learn u better pay me
1376[13:38:46] <jelly> mystic: this channel is more oriented towards specific problems, eg "I tried to install Debian X to system Y and stumbled onto issues Z and Q."
1378[13:39:25] <mystic> ok.. 'show me how to work debian' not specifuc enough ?
1379[13:39:30] <jelly> no.
1380[13:39:36] <jelly> work what?
1381[13:39:45] <jelly> !handbook
1382[13:39:46] <dpkg> The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at replaced-url
1383[13:40:05] <mystic> Read the handbook to me :P
1384[13:40:09] <jelly> mystic: read a book, like ^
1385[13:40:35] <jelly> if you can't read you're in the wrong place and we can't help you
1386[13:40:38] <mystic> its too daunting.. difficukt to use
1387[13:40:56] <jelly> pick a specific task and ask about that.
1388[13:41:17] <jelly> "I can't install, you won't believe what happens: "
1389[13:41:27] <jelly> "I can't mount a usb disk"
1390[13:41:30] <mystic> whats the benefit of debian over ubuntu? can i make it look/run liek ubuntu gui, but it will be more stable? otherwise whats the point?
1391[13:41:47] <Haohmaru> you mean crapbuntu?
1392[13:42:02] <mystic> whys is crap. works wel lfor casual users.. stable enough
1393[13:42:12] <Haohmaru> of course it will work
1394[13:42:13] <mystic> how is that crap? not everyone is a tech whizz, or has tome to be one
1395[13:42:18] <mystic> time*
1396[13:42:50] <Haohmaru> ubuntu is sorta like.. canonical forked debian and rubbed their underwear in it
1397[13:43:07] <Haohmaru> don't quote me on that
1398[13:43:16] <mystic> i like thier style.. looks good.. easier to use. cant see a real problem myself. what is the problem exactly/?
1399[13:43:38] <Haohmaru> if it works for you - none
1400[13:43:47] <mystic> u knwo what i mean
1401[13:43:56] <mystic> why people saty its crap.. just cos is popular?
1402[13:44:11] <Haohmaru> for me it's because of the above ^
1405[13:45:07] <dunz0r> mystic: It does things in weird ways, for no reason other than to be different
1406[13:45:12] <Haohmaru> if i keep going i might get banned
1407[13:45:26] <mystic> try not to be so aloof and cryptic... just asking ewhy people say use debian , its 'better'
1408[13:45:34] <dunz0r> Ubuntu is probably good for desktops, if you don't like fiddling, but I don't like it on servers.
1409[13:45:46] <dunz0r> Unstable ever-changing versions of stuff
1410[13:45:54] <mystic> i dont even understand servers.. i just use laptop
1411[13:46:01] <mystic> seems to work well
1412[13:46:14] <mystic> cant see any issue. and i dont hafe to bury me head in terminal
1413[13:46:19] <mystic> \spyware? i dont know. is there?
1414[13:46:26] <dunz0r> That's not a drawback, about the terminal
1415[13:46:27] <Haohmaru> just a lil bit
1416[13:46:33] <Haohmaru> from time to time
1417[13:46:37] <dunz0r> I more or less live in a terminal, lol.
1418[13:46:51] <humpled> listen to this: replaced-url
1419[13:47:07] <mystic> most asual never use terminal.. or never wannt to.. at least ubuntu brings masses over from windows to linux. without it, i bet many would not even try linux.
1420[13:47:13] <dunz0r> But mostly. Debian has stable versions and proper testing.
1422[13:47:34] <Haohmaru> humpled number 5 there ain't too bad
1423[13:47:36] <mystic> thats not alwasy the case humpled/.. some things are popualr cos thry work and most people can use them
1424[13:47:44] <karlpinc> And so debian does not require fussing. Once it works, it works.
1425[13:47:44] <humpled> heheh
1426[13:47:47] <dunz0r> I don't give a flying frick if it brings people over from windows. I'd rather not tbh. Means "useability" is more important than making it good and secure
1430[13:48:11] <dunz0r> Debian is popular because it's good. Ubuntu is popular because it's easy
1431[13:48:11] <mystic> u need to fuss to use debian in the first place
1432[13:48:20] <dunz0r> And tbh, debian isn't very fussy.
1433[13:48:21] <mystic> ubuntu is godo also.. i think you are being unfair
1434[13:48:32] <mystic> i cant evne use debian for a millisecond without help
1435[13:48:35] <mystic> wont even work
1436[13:48:41] <dunz0r> Install it with the graphic installer and tick the "install graphic desktop enviroment" and you're done.
1437[13:48:42] <karlpinc> mystic: Mostly, you need to use the unoffical installer with the non-free firmware included. Then it either works or does not.
1440[13:48:54] <humpled> using a mouse is like going to a foreign country and just pointing at things you want to eat while moving your mouth
1441[13:49:00] <humpled> learn the lingo or go home!
1442[13:49:04] <mystic> whats wrong with that humpled?
1443[13:49:07] <mystic> rubbish
1444[13:49:13] <mystic> some of us dont have time, or the desire too
1445[13:49:15] <humpled> heheh
1446[13:49:25] <dunz0r> mystic: Read the manual and learn stuff instead of relying on the good of others to fix your crap.
1447[13:49:26] <mystic> some of us have other things to do
1448[13:49:33] *** Quits: kslen (~newbie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1449[13:49:37] <mystic> do you know how to build a car/. ? no but you ptobably have one
1450[13:49:56] <Haohmaru> yeah, ubuntu is trying to steal windows users.. sorta.. that's good, sooner or later they figure there are other distributions and toss ubuntu for something else
1451[13:49:59] <Haohmaru> so that's good
1452[13:50:02] <mystic> im often recommended linux dunz... if im told that in the first place i simply would not even bother useing it
1453[13:50:04] <dunz0r> mystic: That's why you buy a car, and not go ask your mechanic friend to do everything for you
1454[13:50:07] <mystic> so that doesnt was hwith me wither
1455[13:50:11] <humpled> it's all good :)
1456[13:50:15] <karlpinc> mystic: Some of us do too. It's not our job to convince you what's best for you.
1461[13:51:03] <mystic> ok dunzar.. i bet you do everything urself? live in the wild on berries and rabbits, draw your own water, make your own electric.. otherwise.. stop judging me
1462[13:51:07] <Haohmaru> nvz guess what, i'm still rsync'ing
1468[13:51:41] <dunz0r> mystic: No, I pay people to give me food and water. But I don't go pester people because I'm lazy.
1469[13:51:46] <humpled> how many days now Haohmaru ?
1470[13:51:52] <Haohmaru> 3
1471[13:51:53] <dunz0r> mystic: Then most people probably shouldn't use it.
1472[13:51:57] <mystic> fuk all to do with being lazy
1473[13:52:03] <nvz> Haohmaru: how much data is it? are you hitting I/O errors?
1474[13:52:12] <mystic> everything to do with it constantly being recommended 'my granny can use it'
1475[13:52:20] <Haohmaru> a few gigabytes
1476[13:52:29] <mystic> She me people like you, with your attitude, and id never even try if in the first place
1477[13:52:35] <nvz> Haohmaru: surely it has to be throwing read errors like crazy
1478[13:52:36] <mystic> show me *
1479[13:52:44] <Haohmaru> yeah.. some files are copied with a few KB/sec
1480[13:52:57] <Haohmaru> i don't see the errors anywhere
1481[13:53:01] <ratrace> mystic: are you going into car mechanics channels and bitch there that you can't build your own car? no? then stop doing the same here. if you have a support question, we'd gladly help. otherwise, debian-offtopic has cookies.
1482[13:53:05] <nvz> Haohmaru: they'd be in dmesg probably
1483[13:53:05] <dunz0r> mystic: I don't want more linux casual linux users :P
1493[13:53:31] <zmoo> I think I broke my build system installing Llvm and Boost
1494[13:53:43] <nvz> mystic: please try to be on topic, we have users needing support here
1495[13:53:56] <zmoo> clang++ now trips catch2 with some strange error
1496[13:54:05] <dunz0r> mystic: You don't want to be a help vampire. replaced-url
1497[13:54:06] <mystic> ok, thats your selfish attitude and you are entitled to it dunz.. jusrt dont judge 99'5 of the populous who dont have tiem to learn that shit
1514[13:55:58] <ratrace> popularity is irrelevant here. they came bitching here that linux is too hard for them as if it's our fault. welll... ho-kay. then uhhh don't use it?
1515[13:56:01] <Haohmaru> luckily, linux is getting bett0r and bett0r
1518[13:56:31] <dunz0r> Haohmaru: Yeah, that too. It's hard though. It's bloody everywhere. Even though I'm a "linux specialist" I still have to take care of god damn windows servers :(
1519[13:56:45] <Haohmaru> nonono
1520[13:56:53] <Haohmaru> i'm just a user, don't have no servers
1521[13:56:57] <dunz0r> Windows as a server OS is like using a chop stick to eat soup
1523[13:57:33] *** Quits: rany (~rany@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1524[13:57:51] <Haohmaru> i mean, i have a bunch of computer-related hobbies and i've used windows in the past (because.. it came with the computer and i had no idea what i'm doing..)
1567[14:03:56] <mystic> you fucking peices of shit. I was just asking why debian is considered 'better' than ubuntu then some of ure pussys try ripping into me. thanks for the reasonable responses haohmaru.. pretty much all the rest of you can eat shit til you lear nto be civil. lousy motherfuckers
1568[14:04:29] <dunz0r> mystic: No one is saying it's better. I just don't like Ubuntu. Don't take offence lol.
1569[14:04:44] <dunz0r> mystic: Also NO ONE cares what OS you use. Use what you like, it's your choice.
1570[14:05:01] <mystic> dont pretend you werent being a dick earlier... eat shit
1571[14:05:10] <ratrace> jelly: ?
1572[14:05:14] <dunz0r> mystic: No you!
1573[14:05:15] <Haohmaru> hm?
1574[14:05:17] <mystic> dont need to be conversing with asshats like you
1575[14:05:25] <Haohmaru> mystic calm down first
1576[14:05:30] <dunz0r> mystic: Why are you continuing though?
1577[14:05:38] <dunz0r> FreeCAD might've gotten better though, there's been huge improvements everytime I've tried it.
1578[14:06:04] <Haohmaru> i gotta learn freecad too
1579[14:06:09] <dunz0r> mystic: I'm going to put you on ignore now, just so you now. So I won't be able to see your insults anymore
1580[14:06:12] <mystic> ive no issue with you haohmaru.. shame others cant man up and be civil in here too
1581[14:06:16] <Haohmaru> i launched it a few times, barely made a cube x_x
1582[14:06:19] <mystic> fuk off dunz u cunt
1583[14:06:27] <mystic> have that last one on the house
1596[14:07:16] <humpled> at least we know what it is now
1597[14:07:16] <Haohmaru> mystic most distributions have "live" images, you burn it onto a USB stick or CD/DVD, and you boot from it, then you can sorta test things around
1616[14:09:51] *** Quits: erle (~erle@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1617[14:09:55] <mystic> 'weakling' say sthe uy who lives on a terminal. i did 50 knuckles press ups earlier dunz.. enough to smash your idiot mouth to pulp... but of course, i,m not violent
1618[14:10:05] <mystic> sick of these people
1619[14:10:28] <Haohmaru> mystic read what i said ^ and calm down
1623[14:11:43] <dunz0r> Anyone have any ideas on how I could "deconfigure" an installed system on boot without writing a script that does it? Cloud-init doesn't seem to be what I want... Like, reconfigure all the packages, like one does on initial setup
1624[14:11:52] <dunz0r> Must be some dpkg-reconfigure magic I can use...
1652[14:19:49] <nvz> it does seem like an interesting idea though.. you want to clone machines and individualize them on the first run
1653[14:19:55] <dunz0r> Cloud-init can do it, but then I'd still have to set the hostname and stuff by hand. So a script that gets launched once, asks questions and then disables itself is what I'll use
1655[14:20:22] <nvz> I do a lot of cloning but I don't run them all at once.. I just clone installs to test things then delete them
1656[14:21:03] <dunz0r> We do clones of templates and then run a few commands to regenerate systemd-id/machine-d/ssh-keys, and I'd like to get rid of those steps
1668[14:24:47] <dunz0r> nvz: Oh! Good suggestion. No need to reinvent the wheel. I could just write something that generates the file and then uses cloud-init to do everything :)
1675[14:26:51] <nvz> I was looking at it and as far as things it can do, it can use chef recipies, run arbitrary commands, write arbitrary files, it can do any and everything the only feature its missing is an interactive mode to supply the information
1678[14:27:44] <nvz> and really if python isnt your thing, that bit could be written in anything really all cloud-init wants is a config file to read from
1680[14:28:16] <nvz> it seems to have a provision to run things on first boot.. so just use that bit to run a bit to provide it with further configuration
1685[14:32:07] *** Quits: TrashZomb (~zap@replaced-ip) (Quit: [BX] We drink more beers than Norm on Cheers!)
1686[14:32:20] <nvz> dunz0r: looks like you'd want to maybe provide as much of a stock config as you can then use the vendor data to override it as needed
1687[14:32:49] <nvz> dunz0r: and I'm still just glancing it over but I'd imagine you could use its first run command provision to hook something to provide the vendor data
1688[14:34:51] <dunz0r> nvz: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. Already configure everything that's "shared" between machines with Salt.
1697[14:37:30] <SpeakerToMeat> Question, in case anybody knows, I want to "build" the nvidia 430.40 packages on buster. I pulled the already made package from sid, and all went well (I expected it to... though once I try to install I'll probably find I need to tweak the requirement versions on the packages a little)... the thing is, I wanted to see which versions I have installed on my buster already to install these same packages, but I
1698[14:37:32] <SpeakerToMeat> see I have the amd64 and i386 packages for all of them installed (I'm multiarch).... but the sid package only comes with, and builds, the amd64 version of the driver.
1699[14:37:47] *** Quits: RandomSerb (~RandomSer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1700[14:37:59] <SpeakerToMeat> Does anybody know if 430.40 exists on i386 at all? if so, any existing/easy way to "build" the i386 packages too?
1701[14:38:15] <SpeakerToMeat> Or am I comming to the end days of my multiarch build?
1702[14:38:16] <dunz0r> ratrace: Has saved me so much time. Now I can ruin everything at once instead of just one machine at a time!
1709[14:40:00] <dunz0r> SpeakerToMeat: Ansible logs in on the machine over ssh instead of talking to a "server" on the other side. Puppet/chef is really complex and bloaty.
1714[14:40:17] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
1715[14:40:20] <ratrace> SpeakerToMeat: ^^^
1716[14:40:33] <dunz0r> SpeakerToMeat: And, at the time I decided on saltstack for the infrastructure here at work, ansible wasn't more than a glorified ssh <host> runcommand :)
1717[14:40:47] <ratrace> Ideally, you'd want to build only minimum packages from sid, using whatever is possible of deps from stable
1725[14:42:19] <ratrace> and certain bugs exist that are very annoying, eg. inability to handle multiple blkids with same UUID
1726[14:42:38] <ratrace> (which makes btrfs handling automation rather hard, for example)
1727[14:43:05] <SpeakerToMeat> ratrace: ??
1728[14:43:36] <dunz0r> ratrace: That too, saltstack isn't super-fast either, but I can just leave the job running on the salt-master and look at the output when it's done
1729[14:43:43] <ratrace> SpeakerToMeat: recommended way to port nvidia from sid?
1730[14:44:01] <SpeakerToMeat> ratrace: So far I don't see i386 package in sid... Thanks but I'm not exactly askign how to backport here (though 'll check that)
1829[15:20:52] <Haohmaru> does he mean a proper filebrowser, or he trying to reinvent an IDE with a project tree
1830[15:21:06] <SpeakerToMeat> I think he means a file browser with a text preview pane
1831[15:21:08] <jaggz> nvz, I'm not 100% sure yet. The directory structure is kind of deep and should be displayed nicely, but .. not sure. :)
1832[15:21:12] <RNM> just use chrome and press f12. you will get what you want
1833[15:21:29] <jaggz> I have various projects in different languages, and they all relate to each other. I'm perusing the files and want to view them well
1834[15:21:57] <Haohmaru> wouldn't a tabbed text editor work?
1835[15:22:07] <Haohmaru> or an IDE
1836[15:22:12] <nvz> like geany
1837[15:22:22] <Haohmaru> yeah, geany or code::blocks
1860[15:27:26] <jaggz> does that make sense? that's why I was asking about the file browser thing .. in dolphin, even if you just mouse over the file, it'll udate a file-info panel.. but it doesn't seem to have a contents-preview panel
1861[15:27:35] <jaggz> Haohmaru, lol.. it's a lot of stuff to go through
1862[15:27:39] <deadmarshal> hey, my Tor doesn't work. it is running and I put bridges in, I don't know what is the problem. I didn't mess with config files, before it worked just fine, now it doesn't.
1863[15:27:45] <Haohmaru> well, i remember at one time a DE or filebrowser was actually rendering icons for the text files that actually had the contents..
1864[15:28:16] <SpeakerToMeat> jaggz: Use an ide... right now my favorite for most stuff is Visual Studio Code
1870[15:31:06] <jaggz> SpeakerToMeat, so far so good! shows the files right away, re-using the same tab. an intuitive double-click will open it in a new one
1871[15:31:54] <jaggz> arrowing through the file list doesn't work for that preview. it requires the click for the preview. that would have been a big plus
1892[15:50:36] <nvz> I just tried every filemanger IN debian and several that werent and the only one that looked like it may have a file preview wont run on debian because it insistes on a glibc and qt5 just every so slightly newer than the one in debian
1920[15:58:07] <jaggz> got the preview in dolphin working.. it's not gonna work though -- need to use an ide it seems.
1921[15:58:33] <jelly> jaggz: ^ preview. Of images at least. What kind of document fails to generate a preview on mouseover?
1922[15:59:02] <nvz> seems he wants to just scroll through source code and see the code in different files
1923[15:59:19] <nvz> which is why I'd suggested geany
1924[15:59:38] <jaggz> yeah.. with the ability to examine the code more in detail quickly too.. I might try geany as well.. right now I'm trying visual studio code
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1926[16:00:11] *** Quits: danwellby (~danwellby@replaced-ip) (Quit: Watch out For sysops carrying carpet and quicklime)
1955[16:08:47] <Peyam> I have an laptop and I usually have the it closed. so I see everything on se secondary screen which is bigger then my laptp's screen.
1956[16:08:53] <Peyam> what hapen
1957[16:08:57] <Peyam> I have an laptop and I usually have the it closed. so I see everything on se secondary screen which is bigger then my laptp's screen.
1958[16:09:00] <Peyam> so..
1959[16:09:14] <jaggz> nvz, does geany let you ctrl mouse or -= to zoom in and out (change font size)? vs code does ctrl -= but it scales the entire UI.. so irritating :)
1960[16:09:41] <Peyam> now I suspend the computer and the screen goes black. When I come back some times later and wake the computer up it still shows black
1961[16:09:56] <Peyam> so I need to do systemctl restart lightdm.service
1962[16:09:59] <jaggz> Peyam, i'm not familiar with multiple displays in linux.. when it's black, is it showing on the 2nd screen?
1974[16:13:04] <jaggz> Peyam, I'm not yet sure of the solution, but the first thing I'd do, myself, is use screen or tmux within X11. Then I'd attach to that from c-a-F1
1975[16:13:14] <jaggz> then I'd use xrandr to examine the displays
2004[16:19:24] <greycat> OK, so he has a single X session that he has already started, and it flipped out, and he went to tty1 and wants to diagnose/fix it from outside. All right. In that case, which is definitely "something weird afoot", export DISPLAY=:0 would be appropriate.
2012[16:21:04] <jaggz> (that's cuz that display was only 1280x1024
2013[16:21:26] <Peyam> jaggz, I had a key shortcut for it it sometimes worked and sometimes not
2014[16:21:38] <rjdp9736> I am on Debian 10 nginx 1.16, and nginx seems to return partial responses, from curl I am getting: "curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 1 was not closed cleanly: INTERNAL_ERROR" and in Chrome console I get "net::ERR_SPDY_PROTOCOL_ERROR 200"
2015[16:21:39] <rjdp9736> few days ago I rebooted the server and issue went away, now its started happening again, seems to issue of temporary memory issue , I am not sure which memory or filesystem location I should cleanup to fix it
2016[16:21:39] <rjdp9736> In nginx error log I get " [error] 12381#12381: *594597 readv() failed (104: Connection reset by peer) while reading upstream "
2017[16:21:39] <rjdp9736> if I hit the upstream I dont get this issue, happening only when I am hitting via nginx also this is happening in 50% of requests and generally happens when resp body is big (~ 14 kb) I have gzip on
2033[16:25:26] <petn-randall> tsglove2: It's usually the DM like gdm or lightdm that does that.
2034[16:25:26] <jaggz> Peyam, khoobeh?
2035[16:25:40] <greycat> tsglove2: are you referring to the graphical login? Or do you still want the graphical login, but you want it to run something other than xfce?
2036[16:25:43] <tsglove2> petn-randall, thanks... on my way to check out what I have.
2037[16:25:53] <Peyam> jaggz, it hasn't happened yes on this session. I'll try it when it happened
2040[16:26:18] <jaggz> Peyam, k. you should play with it to get used to the commands and set up some scripts for convenience. you can map those to keys too
2041[16:26:27] <rjdp9736> /msg dpkg irclog
2042[16:26:29] <tsglove2> greycat, well, it all started because I'm trying to setup VNC on a Debian10 machine. Yet when I connect, I get the old "grey" background with X-cursor. So I setup a new Debian9 machine so I can follow 100% the steps mentioned.
2043[16:26:32] <jaggz> peyam, you use gnome or kde .. ?
2044[16:26:36] <tsglove2> And... 45 minutes later, here I am.
2048[16:27:27] <Peyam> jaggz, As I said I have been trying with keybinding and even that script you just show me but it sometimes doesn't happen. however that export thing was new for me. so I will try it . thank you so much
2049[16:27:38] <Peyam> jaggz, I use xfce with the new debian.
2050[16:27:50] <Peyam> i had this problem with stretch too
2065[16:29:42] <Peyam> jaggz, the primary choice of screen can be done within the setting. xfce has an option for it and DP-1 is the primary on ein the settings
2066[16:29:59] <jaggz> so, in xorg.conf you'd set that Option "Primary" "true" on the monitor you want
2067[16:30:08] <jaggz> gotcha
2068[16:30:16] <Habbie> how do i prevent gdm from starting on boot on Debian Buster?
2069[16:30:34] <Habbie> i ran systemctl disable gdm3, and i see /etc/rc*.d/K01gdm3, no S01, but it still starts on boot
2070[16:30:48] <rjdp9736> @dunz0r, upstream beahaves as expected , I tried hiiting 20 request directly to upstream none failed
2101[16:45:48] <jaggz> Peyam, so.. yeah.. make sure the xfce stuff is setting the defaults well -- and find out where it does it (does it do it in xorg.conf?) and then it's nice to have the shell scripts that do the specific things you want
2102[16:46:04] <Peyam> jaggz, thanks buddy
2103[16:46:09] <jaggz> sometimes flipping primary and secondary. sometimes mirroring (--same-as) .. sometimes extending.. etc
2104[16:46:41] <jaggz> I like setting up my own shortcuts/hotkeys in kde to make my life more convenient. and recently I started adding a lot more commands, aliases, and shell functions, for common things I do
2154[17:10:22] <tsglove2> VNC is now working properly on the Debian9 machine. Yet when I login via VNC, it goes straight to the desktop. I would like for it to go straight to lightdm (which is what I have installed, Debian9 + xfce4).
2155[17:10:32] <greycat> !xdmcp
2156[17:10:32] <dpkg> The X Display Manager Control Protocol (XDMCP) provides a uniform mechanism for an autonomous display (e.g. X terminal) to request login service from a remote host. replaced-url
2157[17:10:50] <tsglove2> I'm about to follow this guide... replaced-url
2180[17:18:48] <commandline1> So i would be needing help with the Nvidia Geforce mx150 drivers, all previos attempt broke something in the system and had to reinstall the OS all over again.
2181[17:19:11] <commandline1> @jelly: so if you are present should I begin the process ?
2272[17:58:52] <abspython> Is there a seperate channel for debian packaging related queries?
2273[17:59:02] <greycat> !mentors
2274[17:59:02] <dpkg> i heard mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
2275[17:59:23] <greycat> there's also #packaging on OFTC, but I think that's more generalized somehow (like, RPM and so on)
2276[17:59:48] <greycat> you're allowed to ask here, but most of us are end users, and may not know the answers
2414[18:51:51] <Habbie> otherwise i'm out of ideas besides 'use wget or apt on a non-hostname basis to install debugging tools and take it from there' or the ever popular 'just nuke the droplet and make a new one'
2415[18:51:53] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2416[18:53:23] <jhutchins_wk> On the other hand, there's always /etc/hosts
2417[18:53:25] <Lemming> Habbie, weird part is... that's what I just did...
2424[18:56:33] <johnfg> For some reason, my canon printer has stopped printing. I'm still running stretch, latest updates, and have done nothing that should have made the printer stop working.
2442[19:02:43] <n_1-c_k> johnfg, look at /var/log/cups/* ?
2443[19:03:05] <johnfg> This error is showing up in the jobs section of cups: "src = libcanon_pdlwrapper.c, line = 514, err = 0¥nDEBUG: Wrote 1 pages..."
2444[19:04:41] <johnfg> Here's the short error_log of /var/log/cups: replaced-url
2448[19:06:35] <johnfg> n_1-c_k: Anything there that tells you what happened? I can't figure it out.
2449[19:08:03] <n_1-c_k> Well, I have no idea what that means. You could try stopping cups, backup your config, purge & reinstall cups, set up your printer again. I accept no responsibility for ensuing fires or explosions.
2468[19:17:07] <NCS_One> after upgrading to buster I did a reboot and now I get "... Kernel panic - not syncing : VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0)", what can I do to fix it?
2469[19:17:27] <tsglove2> greycat, I have been reading about xdmcp , and I'm a little bit lost. What I would like is to connect via VNC to a Debian machine, yet have lightdm DisplayManager come up (instead of going straight to the WindowManager xfce).
2470[19:17:33] <tsglove2> You mentioned xdmcp...
2471[19:18:00] <tsglove2> Pardon my "lost in the sea", yet what I'm looking for is for VNC's xstartup to start lightdm instead of xfce4?
2475[19:18:22] <greycat> XDMCP is what you normally use to get an X11 login screen from a remote server to display on your X11 thin client (diskless workstation, whatever). 1980s LAN model. I have no idea how VNC would fit into this.
2476[19:18:33] *** danwellby-1 is now known as danwellby
2477[19:19:25] <tsglove2> greycat, ok ok. Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to tie this all together. I'll update soon on what I progress to!
2478[19:19:49] <karlpinc> I use plain old xdm I believe, for remote X login over the lan.
2479[19:21:02] <tsglove2> karlpinc, interesting. My issue is that the local environment is a mix of Debian and MS. And other team-members will be login from a MS machine. Thus why I thought to use VNC.
2488[19:22:58] <tsglove2> That's an option. I'll see if I can avoid going down that rabbit hole.
2489[19:24:06] <karlpinc> tsglove2: VNC might be eaiser all the way around, if you can get a dm login screen. (Sounds likely, but then I've not really looked. VNC was sorta designed to connect to a "user's screen".)
2495[19:26:29] <karlpinc> tsglove2: Then there's the "what are you really trying to do" question. You need a access to a whole desktop?
2496[19:26:50] <Peyam> how do I find the path of Clang-format on my disk?
2497[19:26:53] <dob1> hi I have exim4 just for local mail, on paniclog I found several 1hmCx0-0003FL-Ai Couldn't chown message log /var/spool/exim4//msglog//1hmCx0-0003FL-Ai: Operation not permitted
2518[19:33:54] *** Quits: Insanity_ (uid179350@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2519[19:33:56] <tsglove2> Yeah, I mean... I just understood what a "DisplayManager - DM" is, versus a "Window Manager - WM". So, please excuse if I'm ... going on basic things!
2521[19:34:37] <greycat> My disadvantage here is that I do not understand the mindset of Windows users, and I have no familiarity with "whole desktop exporting" things like VNC and RDP.
2551[19:45:51] <jhutchins_wk> tsglove2: The panic log exists so you can read it and find out why it paniced. Once you've fixed the problem, it should start and run without creating a new entry, and you won't get those messages.
2552[19:46:00] <jhutchins_wk> tsglove2: Oops.
2553[19:46:01] <tsglove2> there's a python script that fires up FireFox and hooks up with it via Selenium's WebDriver. With that, we scrape some websites for data, then write to a database. So the "looking at what the browswer is doing" is necessary. That's the gist of the needs for VNC.
2554[19:47:02] <velix> Which scheduler is default in Stretch?
2555[19:47:03] <jhutchins_wk> tsglove2: Wouldn't it be more efficient to use wget, curl, or a text-based browser?
2563[19:48:23] <Primer> tsglove2: I'd ssh to the machine, run Xvnc, it ran a script that just ran firefox, and firefox just waited for work
2564[19:48:47] <greycat> A remote web browser sounds like a special kind of hell.
2565[19:49:02] <Primer> screen was involved too
2566[19:49:19] *** Quits: nexgen2 (~nexgen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2567[19:49:32] *** Quits: daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2568[19:49:41] <Primer> meh, you just need X, and Xvnc provides it. It's really simple.
2569[19:49:46] <Primer> no hell involved
2570[19:49:52] <tsglove2> Yeah... the pages we visit are... interesting. One of them does not have some data in the html-tables UNTIL the browser's size itself is wide (I don't know if 1200 pixels or what). At that point, I guess the javascript recognizes the DOM's size, and inserts the extra-data columns.
2578[19:51:03] <tsglove2> Oh heck yes. Especially when I *know* they have a as/400 on the backend. Yet they load up 4-5 MB of data for each request... serve up a webpage... so I can scrape it... and ask for another page.
2582[19:51:14] <Primer> I can give you the source of my addon if you want :) all it did was scrape URLs from a running firefox. It opens a socket and just waits for URLs, and returns base64 encoded pngs of the page
2583[19:51:15] <tsglove2> checking
2584[19:51:26] <greycat> kreyren: ,file is a separate command from ,v
2608[19:53:47] <greycat> marmarek: there is a plan to rename foobar/updates to foobar-security because the existing name is easily confused with foobar-updates (/ vs. -)
2609[19:54:04] <greycat> marmarek: but there ARE NOT testing security updates, so there won't be anything IN it until bullseye is actually released
2610[19:54:19] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: The only thing I've seen it used for is regression testing php web pages to make sure they produce the right output. Which is a crazy way to regression test.
2617[19:54:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2672[20:14:12] *** Quits: saptaks (~saptaks@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2673[20:14:15] <domovoy_> i have a problem with a motherboard (asustek p5kpl/1600). First i couldn't boot on usb, after a bios update this was fixed, still, after booting, the only recognised usb device is the flashdrive i used to boot (mouse is not here, neither is my external hard drive when i plug it in), when plugging a usb device, nothing appears in syslog, and lsusb doesn't list it. Same thing if i boot from a cd. I'd like to make sure this issue can be fixed before
2710[20:31:25] *** Quits: daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2711[20:31:37] <karlpinc> domovoy_: You might want to use the unoffical images with non-free firmware.
2712[20:31:44] <karlpinc> !tell domovoy_ about firmware images
2713[20:32:41] <domovoy_> karlpinc> tried that, i also just booted the installed windows vista to see if it works, doesn't. I guess this mobo is fried :/
2718[20:36:00] <greycat> you can't use python3.7 which comes with Debian?
2719[20:36:23] <iwkse> greycat: the app I need to install works with python3.6 (taiga)
2720[20:36:36] <greycat> does it *fail* with python 3.7?
2721[20:36:40] <iwkse> yes already tried
2722[20:36:48] <greycat> ,v python3.6
2723[20:36:49] <judd> No package named 'python3.6' was found in amd64.
2724[20:37:01] <avu> iwkse: it's very strange to have an app that works with 3.6 but not with 3.7, what's the error? are the devs aware of the problem?
2748[20:39:43] <iwkse> avu: so I'm going to take a look
2749[20:39:45] <domovoy_> jhutchins_wk> that would be _all_ the usb ports, tried them all, even the additional connectors for front panel usb on the board
2750[20:40:23] <domovoy_> also, network doesn't work on linux, but does on windows
2751[20:40:32] <avu> iwkse: ah, there even is a version of kombu released already which has the fix
2804[21:02:40] <SerajewelKS> what does it mean if i hotplug a SATA disk, i see "ata2: SATA link up 6.0 Gbps (SStatus 133 SControl 300)" in the kernel log, but there's no new block devices?
2805[21:03:09] <SerajewelKS> i've never had a linux system not present a new sdX node when a SATA disk is hotplugged
2814[21:12:20] <jelly> SerajewelKS: dunno, but can you ask the controllers to reevaluate what's connected to them? echo '- - -'|sudo tee -a /sys/class/scsi_host/host*/scan
2815[21:12:39] <nulleip> in a sequence after detach a previous disk in the same sata channel?
2816[21:12:49] <jelly> (you know what the sudo stands for, there)
2831[21:23:09] <jelly> was there something on ata2 previously not unplugged properly by echo 1 > /sys/block/sdX/device/delete ?
2832[21:23:30] <SerajewelKS> no, there was nothing in that port when the system booted last
2833[21:23:47] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2834[21:24:01] <SerajewelKS> i had to rearrange the sata power cables and the only drive in that section of disks that was there when i was booted hosts an optional LV and is part of two mirrors
2835[21:24:16] <jelly> I see a reboot in your future.
2836[21:24:18] <SerajewelKS> so i unmounted it and kicked it from the mirrors, unplugged it. it disappeared from lsblk.
2837[21:24:18] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2847[21:30:33] <SerajewelKS> i rebooted and both new drives show up
2848[21:30:37] <jhutchins_wk> SerajewelKS: dmesg should show what node the device is.
2849[21:30:52] <SerajewelKS> jhutchins_wk: there was no node for the new device. not in dmesg, not in lsblk. not until i rebooted.
2850[21:31:21] <SerajewelKS> but the kernel knew there was a new ata device. that's really weird to me. it's worked on other linux boxes. i'm just going to blame the motherboard.
2851[21:31:32] <jhutchins_wk> SerajewelKS: Hot plug was not well implemented last I looked, I had a bay that worked for a while, then ALL of the connectors stopped working with it.
2852[21:31:33] <SerajewelKS> i don't know what else would be the problem
2853[21:31:45] <SerajewelKS> weird, i thought sata hotplug was pretty ubiquitous at this point
2861[21:32:57] <jhutchins_wk> The one I had wouldn't recognise the drive until I ran the BIOS with it plugged in. Don't remember if I had to set anything, or just run it. ~10 yr old Dell.
2862[21:33:08] <SerajewelKS> possibly. it's also a system76 box. i'd expect them to use decent motherboards with good linux support.
2864[21:33:35] <karlpinc> SerajewelKS: Complain to hardware support?
2865[21:33:46] <SerajewelKS> jhutchins_wk: that sounds similar to this case. i unplugged and replugged a drive (to rearrange SATA power cables, and obviously after unmounting everything) and when i replugged it the system picked it up fine.
2879[21:37:49] <jhutchins_wk> I'm not sure what the storage architecture is, but they can add/remove/upgrade whole blades. I guess they just vmotion all the servers off one and *poof*.
3031[23:04:31] <teclo-> hmmm... weird, I've got an external 2 TB drive that had a gpt partition table, I switched to the dos partition table, created and formatted a brand new ext4 filesystem... while formatting I already had [ 9249.464689] Buffer I/O error on device sdd1...
3032[23:05:06] <teclo-> now it took 2h to format, and now it won't mount, even when typing mount manually
3033[23:05:16] <teclo-> this is weird... perhaps did I do something wrong...
3046[23:10:12] <gmturner> put your ear against it and listen while accessing the drive. you'll know which it is. IF there's no safe place to touch it, you can use a wooden chopstick to transmit sound from the drive to your ear-holes :)
3048[23:11:13] <gmturner> spinning rust external drives can pretty easily wind up with physical defects due to getting bumped around over the years (or months as the case would be here)
3057[23:16:08] <gmturner> once spinning rust gets damaged, it tends to get real slow like that, as the drive keeps trying and trying to read/write as requested before it eventually gives up on a sector (? ... whatever it gives up on) and remaps it.... unless it's an "enterprise" drive which it probably isn't if you didn't but that specifically
3062[23:18:35] <gmturner> Sometimes you can resuscitate them by some procedure like dd if=/dev/random of=${disk} ... ; dd if=/dev/zero of=${disk} ...; For a 2TB external disk it will take a hell of a long time though.
3063[23:19:16] *** Quits: laptop2_ (~my123@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3064[23:19:24] <teclo-> gmturner: well I just did that
3065[23:19:33] <teclo-> not for the whole disk though
3066[23:19:58] <gmturner> Just the partitions?
3067[23:20:00] <teclo-> I did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd
3075[23:23:46] <gmturner> There might be faster ways. But often not without learning curves, and maybe being forced to pirate some ancient abandon-ware or something like that. The dd will probably ultimately get you there faster and you can go on with your life and get a result in a day or three.
3076[23:24:11] <gmturner> not faster in absolute time but in man-hours i mean
3077[23:24:41] *** Quits: JTDoc (uid180843@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3078[23:25:05] *** Quits: cow0k-sarjana (~nologin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3079[23:25:17] <Zathras> hi. after upgrading to buster my python 2.7 (I know...) VENVs are broken. Is this normal? And fixable or migrateble to v3?
3086[23:28:01] <gmturner> like format the whole drive without partitioning? The problem with the whole "bad blocks" approach is a lot of time the drive is smarter than the format utility. So the format utility times out waiting for the drive to say "that's a bad block" and marks it as bad. Then the drive eventually says "I give up, I've ramapped the storage, here's your result, everything is 'fine'"...
3087[23:28:59] <gmturner> bleh, my client is wigging out, not sure if I typed all that. tldr: your format might mark the wrong blocks as bad the first time but give you the right result the second time.
3089[23:29:24] *** Quits: openface (~of@replaced-ip) (Quit: [BX] I hear banjos)
3090[23:30:37] *** Quits: alexertech (~xb@replaced-ip) (Quit: Fades into the darkness)
3091[23:31:14] <gmturner> I think dd once, then format. Or if you need it all to be done yesterday, purchase a new drive or try to figure out how to tell your drive to low-level format itself but be prepared for a frustrating time figuring that out.
3092[23:32:03] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3109[23:43:53] <gmturner> koollman, I find it surprising that we are still spinning platters in external drives because they so often wind up in situations like telco's. If you'd asked me five years ago, I'd have predicted all new external disks would be solid-state by now.
3121[23:50:40] <gmturner> I think I heard recently that at least one of the big vendors was finally going to start releasing slow, cheap, bulk consumer-targeted ssds. So maybe in another five years we can stop worrying about C/H/S, and trade whirring noises for coil whine.
3122[23:52:17] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
3123[23:53:51] *** BrianG61UK_ is now known as BrianG61UK
3124[23:53:56] <SerajewelKS> ugh... i want to add some small raid1 ssds to my server to use as an lvmcache for a 6TB raid1 of hdds
3125[23:54:20] <SerajewelKS> but i only have one spare sata port, and getting a sata controller card kind of ruins the goal of doing that cheaply
3126[23:54:55] <SerajewelKS> i don't suppose anyone makes decently fast ~64GB USB3 storage...
3131[23:56:29] <SerajewelKS> i like the idea of using pcie ssds for that but then i can't hotswap a failed stick
3132[23:57:19] <SerajewelKS> i was also wondering, is there any existing software that will monitor an md-raid array and delete an lvmcache if it becomes degraded?
3133[23:57:56] <SerajewelKS> so that if one of the ssds fails, the cache is totally disabled as it is unsafe
3134[23:58:25] <SerajewelKS> i could probably whip up a simple script that uses mdadm --monitor and make a systemd service out of it, just wondered if this was an already-solved problem