People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:00] <roylaprattep> True.
1 [00:00:06] <roylaprattep> I will.
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12 [00:05:03] <brutser> can you have both a passphrase and keyfile with cryptsetup?
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155 [01:51:00] <tinga> Is there any good way to get a list or statistics of changes that Debian applied to upstream source that turned out to be insecure?
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157 [01:53:41] <tinga> I.e. list (or number) of which security relevant (or otherwise serious) fixes were done to code that was added to/modified in a package by Debian, after those packages were released.
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326 [03:26:25] <SerajewelKS> how can one check an LVG VG's allocation policy? vgdisplay doesn't show it and i can't find any option to show it.
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328 [03:26:40] <SerajewelKS> lvdisplay shows the policy for volumes (inherit) but obviously inherit just means to take the policy from the vg, which i can't see
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331 [03:28:41] <SerajewelKS> the manpage and google are both failing me
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333 [03:29:20] <SerajewelKS> even vgdisplay -v doesn't show this information
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378 [04:15:21] <alphis> why is usermod not found in a fresh install of debian10?
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381 [04:16:05] <dvs> alphis, what do you want usermod to do?
382 [04:16:06] <alphis> i see it exists but its magically not in the default path for root anymore
383 [04:16:12] <alphis> which breaks various installation scripts
384 [04:16:14] <alphis> which is awesome
385 [04:16:33] <alphis> lots of applications/etc depend on it existing in root's path
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387 [04:17:53] <alphis> just wondering if anyone knows why the geniuses who manage debian thought itd be great to make /usr/sbin not in roots path anymore
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391 [04:19:17] <alphis> replaced-url
392 [04:19:18] <judd> Bug replaced-url
393 [04:19:24] <alphis> looks like im not the only one annoyed by this idiotic bug
394 [04:19:37] <alphis> anyway something to be aware of
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408 [04:33:51] <magic_ninja_work> I didn't know it wasn't a bug. I just manually added mine.
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412 [04:36:38] <SerajewelKS> it's not a bug
413 [04:36:47] <SerajewelKS> he almost certainly ran 'su' or 'sudo bash' or something like that
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415 [04:37:17] <SerajewelKS> this doesn't give you a login shell and therefore doesn't run root's .bashrc or .profile or re-read /etc/profile
416 [04:37:28] <SerajewelKS> the correct way to get a login shell as root is 'su -' or 'sudo -i'
417 [04:38:00] <SerajewelKS> in fact i can't remember a time when that _wasn't_ the case
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419 [04:39:05] <SerajewelKS> tl;dr: not a bug, operator error
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423 [04:40:50] <SerajewelKS> or hmm, it doesn't appear to be the case in stretch. however i distinctly running into this multiple times before buster was released.
424 [04:40:58] <SerajewelKS> perhaps it was this way in jessie and was reverted in stretch?
425 [04:41:05] * SerajewelKS shrugs
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457 [05:16:39] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. What is the different between files stored in .config and .local/share?
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460 [05:17:40] <Lady_Aleena> s/different/difference/;
461 [05:17:48] <dvs> Lady_Aleena, .config is the new trend
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463 [05:19:23] <Lady_Aleena> dvs, so no difference? They are both filled with configuration files that I can edit with discretion after rtfm?
464 [05:21:18] <dvs> Lady_Aleena, I'm not sure about .local/share but it sounds like files that can be shared with other users/programs but chances are that they are configuration files as well.
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470 [05:23:29] <Kira> How do I tell what clients are connected to port 6000 of my machine, assuming TCP?
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474 [05:27:37] <Lady_Aleena> I just wish that I could clean them up, so I know exactly what I need to save.
475 [05:27:49] * Lady_Aleena hates clutter on her system.
476 [05:28:35] <jlbuckner> Lady_Aleena, replaced-url
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480 [05:30:00] <jlbuckner> Not Debian specific, but seems to give some explanation on what you are asking about.
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482 [05:33:02] <Lady_Aleena> Okeydokey.
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484 [05:36:17] <warsoul> hi guys
485 [05:36:28] <warsoul> i download an image of debian + cinnamon
486 [05:36:32] <warsoul> but now i installed xfce
487 [05:36:38] <warsoul> i want to fully erase cinnamon
488 [05:36:41] <warsoul> how can i do it?
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491 [05:39:51] <zalt__> one cannot simply fully erase a desktop environment
492 [05:40:13] <orzo> I have a directory that i lost from an overlayfs, an old version of the directory and its contents are in the lower layer of the overlay. I'd like to recover it by directly modifying the deleted status. I expected it would amount to deleting "white-out" files in the overlayed directory, but I cannot find any such files relating to the thing i'm trying to recover.
493 [05:40:50] <orzo> What's the best way to "undelete" from an overlayfs ?
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504 [05:54:45] <orzo> does overlayfs not use whiteout files for deleted directories?
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509 [05:59:21] <awal1> warsoul, you mean you installed task-cinnamon-desktop ?
510 [05:59:58] <warsoul> awal1, i installed debian + cinnamon
511 [06:00:03] <warsoul> but i dont want cinnamon anymore
512 [06:00:34] <awal1> or debian base + first then cinnamon?
513 [06:00:53] <awal1> task cinnamon desktop or just cinnamon is different
514 [06:01:30] <awal1> the task involves more pkgs, so more hard to clean
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516 [06:06:01] <awal1> warsoul, well, start with something like aptitude purge `dpkg --get-selection | grep cinnamon | cut -f 1`
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521 [06:09:21] <awal1> continue searching manually cinnamon stuff and purge them.
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524 [06:11:54] <awal1> also prge non needed satuff using aptitude purge ~c , ~b , ~o and such commands
525 [06:12:05] <awal1> there isn't a magic way
526 [06:12:25] <awal1> if doubts, I suggest you to just keep cinnamon :P
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529 [06:16:47] <HumanSheeple> hi trying to run a server on port 80 says there's already a server running on port 80
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537 [06:22:00] <user888> use "ss -tlp" to find what is running on port 80
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539 [06:23:05] <anisfarhana> Hello :)
540 [06:24:37] <anisfarhana> I can't configure static ipv6 via /etc/network/interfaces, seem like i lost the configuration after i rebooted my server.
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542 [06:25:18] <anisfarhana> I have no problem with "ip addr add <ipv6 address> dev eth0 preferred_lft 0 || true"
543 [06:25:29] <anisfarhana> This is Debian 10.
544 [06:25:38] <anisfarhana> Anyone could assist me on this matter please?
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552 [06:32:59] <SerajewelKS> anisfarhana: what do you need that can't be found in "man interfaces"?
553 [06:33:06] <SerajewelKS> i'm not clear on what exactly you require assistance with
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557 [06:34:16] <warsoul> awal1, dpkg: error: unknown option --get-selection
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562 [06:35:16] <awal1> --get-selections
563 [06:35:23] <awal1> with s
564 [06:35:55] <awal1> well, bro, don't say yes to aptitude if you don't know what to do or what you doing
565 [06:36:15] <awal1> and don't just execute commands people suggest you here
566 [06:36:23] <warsoul> replaced-url
567 [06:36:29] <awal1> first learn about the eaning
568 [06:36:40] <awal1> meaning
569 [06:37:09] <awal1> use aptitude -s .... for simulate and verify stuff
570 [06:37:36] <warsoul> ok
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572 [06:37:52] <awal1> well, you can remove those4 pkgs
573 [06:38:02] <awal1> they are all cinnamon
574 [06:38:05] <warsoul> how do i remove it?
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576 [06:38:35] <anisfarhana> SerajewelKS: Right, let me re-read it again then.
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578 [06:39:19] <awal1> warsoul, if you answer yes (y) aptitude purge `dpkg --get-selections | grep cinnamon | cut -f 1` will proceed removing
579 [06:39:37] <awal1> bro, i have to go dinner, someone will help you
580 [06:39:50] <awal1> google stuff before applying suggestions
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582 [06:40:33] <warsoul> didnt type aptitude purge lol
583 [06:41:00] <awal1> i suggest you to use synaptic
584 [06:41:02] <awal1> easier
585 [06:41:06] <warsoul> bash: aptitude: command not found
586 [06:41:30] <awal1> dpkg: aptitude
587 [06:41:31] <dpkg> methinks aptitude is a terminal-based package manager that can be used in a command-line mode (aptitude install foo ; aptitude remove goo) as well as a text user interface mode (just run "aptitude"). Ask me about <why aptitude> <why not aptitude> <aptitude-fu> <aptitude docs> or see replaced-url
588 [06:41:38] <awal1> dinner time. see ya
589 [06:41:51] <awal1> you can replace aptitude by apt-get
590 [06:42:03] <awal1> ok, i am off now:P
591 [06:42:21] <warsoul> ok thanks brother
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594 [06:46:16] <anisfarhana> SerajewelKS: ipv6 is working now after i restart the network, let me reboot the server first and see how it goes.
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598 [06:48:13] <warsoul> all ready install aptitude
599 [06:48:17] <warsoul> aptitude: unrecognized option '--get-selections'
600 [06:48:25] <warsoul> now im getting this error
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607 [06:52:46] <HumanSheeple> Failed to find a usable hardware address from the network interfaces; using random bytes
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611 [06:58:28] <anisfarhana> SerajewelKS: I got it solved, thanks :)
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665 [07:47:24] <martigan> Is shred the recommended tool to securely wipe a drive or usb? Or dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/whatever?
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731 [08:36:04] <at0m> martigan: shred works on individual files, at least when it's not on SSD or other flash storage, and doesn't work on many filesystems.
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737 [08:39:54] <HumanSheeple> I did IP tables but there seems to be something wrong
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739 [08:41:10] <StyXman> I'm following replaced-url
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747 [08:47:36] <StyXman> my config: replaced-url
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749 [08:48:56] <at0m> StyXman: did you install bridge-utils and brctl addbr <name> ?
750 [08:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1519
751 [08:49:20] <at0m> ,info bridge-utils
752 [08:49:46] <at0m> ,v bridge-utils
753 [08:49:53] <at0m> hmm
754 [08:49:55] <jelly> judd: ping
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787 [08:57:05] <StyXman> at0m: yeah, that was missing, thanks
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790 [08:57:22] <at0m> should work better w that =)
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794 [08:57:57] <dataCobra> Hello guys, I've got a problem with my wifi. When I use it, often it will disconnect for no reason.
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798 [08:58:21] <dataCobra> I use wice-curses with broadcom-sta-dkms driver and have also ethernet connection.
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800 [08:58:44] <jelly> judd: wb
801 [08:58:45] <dataCobra> When I lose my connection to wifi, ethernet goes up.
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803 [08:59:04] <jelly> ,v bridge-utils
804 [08:59:05] <judd> Package: bridge-utils on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5-9; stretch: 1.5-13+deb9u1; bullseye: 1.6-2; buster: 1.6-2; sid: 1.6-2
805 [08:59:06] <os_> hi all, i have upgraded to buster but tightvncserver can't find fonts
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808 [09:00:02] <at0m> wb judd
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810 [09:01:29] <at0m> dataCobra: you're not confusing cause and effect? ie. wicd has an option to bring down wifi when wired connection is detected
811 [09:01:46] <at0m> thus favoring wired over wifi
812 [09:02:13] <StyXman> @dpkg is no more?
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814 [09:02:26] <at0m> dpkg: help
815 [09:02:37] <at0m> dpkg's still on
816 [09:02:50] <at0m> !buster
817 [09:02:50] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see replaced-url
818 [09:03:01] <StyXman> ah, ok, phew!
819 [09:03:21] <at0m> StyXman: judd was restarted i think
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823 [09:03:36] <StyXman> I haven't used it in a long while, and I got used to @ from a bot in another channel
824 [09:03:44] <StyXman> ok, guys, thanks for the help
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827 [09:04:00] <at0m> ,info bleachbit
828 [09:04:01] <judd> Package bleachbit (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: delete unnecessary files from the system. Version: 2.0-3; Size: 320.0k; Installed: 2005k; Homepage: replaced-url
829 [09:04:14] <at0m> can also wipe empty space^
830 [09:04:30] <at0m> vacuum firefox db's and much more
831 [09:04:47] <at0m> oh StyXman left
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855 [09:25:33] * Lady_Aleena head desks.
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859 [09:26:59] <Lady_Aleena> I just read an article on How to Geek that recommended editing a file in /etc. It has been bashed into my head enough to NOT edit files in /etc and to find the appropriate file in ~/.config or something in ~/.
860 [09:27:53] <EdePopede> depends. sometimes you have to do systemwide changes
861 [09:28:29] <EdePopede> apache says not to use .htaccess, but modify in /etc
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863 [09:28:35] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, not for something like disabling the splash screens for LibreOffice.
864 [09:28:45] <EdePopede> at least it is modular, nice solution imho
865 [09:28:59] <EdePopede> no, that's really a personal setting
866 [09:29:00] <Lady_Aleena> apache2 is an exception. I would love to have local apache2 files.
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870 [09:29:49] <EdePopede> the offer's still there. etherpad, you may remember ;)
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873 [09:30:06] <spacekat> ? apache run as a deomon why would you like local settings?
874 [09:30:09] <EdePopede> i think it's easier to work on the config online and just have a chat next to it
875 [09:30:10] <Lady_Aleena> Everything else has a more personal config in ~/.config.
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877 [09:30:29] <Geklmin> true
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879 [09:30:53] <Lady_Aleena> spacekat, I use apache2 for my site work, but I don't host my site on my system, I upload it to a remote server.
880 [09:30:56] <EdePopede> btw, i also change mc's settings in /etc. i also use it as root and usually want the same settings. only its settings overlay system is borked.
881 [09:30:59] <Lady_Aleena> I just edit on my computer.
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887 [09:32:29] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, I think I just said to myself "Screw it, I'll do it the hard way with nano." though I hate using nano, but I can't figure out how to open files in geany as root.
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889 [09:33:41] <EdePopede> running geany as root would help ;)
890 [09:33:46] <spacekat> for root propose to use vi(m)
891 [09:34:23] <EdePopede> though i've read both in the past, don't root commands in terminals, and don't root gui programs
892 [09:34:24] <humpled> or edit local and sudo cp
893 [09:34:26] <Lady_Aleena> spacekat, I don't know if I have those, but the last time I tried vim, I couldn't get it to open the damned file.
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896 [09:34:45] <humpled> simple and safe
897 [09:34:52] <Lady_Aleena> humpled, I like it.
898 [09:35:16] <spacekat> the dedian normal install do not provide vim
899 [09:35:24] <Lorek> Is there any specific trick to packaging shared libraries for debian?
900 [09:35:28] <spacekat> but vi is there normaly
901 [09:35:58] <spacekat> or apt-get unstall vim ;-)
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904 [09:36:08] <EdePopede> i was missing things in vi, though couldn't tell now what they were ;)
905 [09:36:29] <Lady_Aleena> Doesn't vi or vim have a GIANT learning curve?
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907 [09:36:37] <EdePopede> they do
908 [09:36:42] <EdePopede> there's vimtutor, but meh
909 [09:36:54] <EdePopede> some basic keybindings and such things
910 [09:36:58] <EdePopede> and nothing more
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912 [09:37:11] <EdePopede> vim would deserve its own FAT tutorial
913 [09:37:25] <EdePopede> it's not edit.com in the end
914 [09:37:25] <Lady_Aleena> I use more keyboard shortcuts and commands in GUI than the mouse.
915 [09:37:40] <EdePopede> moer effective usually
916 [09:37:45] <Lady_Aleena> Usually.
917 [09:37:53] <spacekat> yeah ok i am a sysadmin i use vi(m) all day, nano(text),gedit((X) will help you
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922 [09:38:31] <humpled> vim wikia is pretty good, but no, vim is not for everyone
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924 [09:38:56] <EdePopede> the most useful thing i found so far are those 5 images with its shortcuts
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929 [09:40:59] <at0m> dpkg: tell Lorek about packaging
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931 [09:41:20] <EdePopede> argh. damn you, hexchat
932 [09:41:29] <EdePopede> i thought we were on ot all the time
933 [09:41:36] <EdePopede> * in ot
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936 [09:42:54] <EdePopede> but since i already have the url: replaced-url
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942 [09:43:18] <EdePopede> good approach, start with the basics and let users go on with next level when they're ready for it.
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979 [10:00:39] <Lady_Aleena> I need to whitelist dpkg.
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1012 [10:18:37] <mystic> is debian suitable for usb running from usb only ?
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1014 [10:19:40] <mystic> I want a linux i can carry around on USB
1015 [10:20:07] <EdePopede> get the live image
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1019 [10:21:21] <mystic> the nwhat
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1022 [10:25:12] <EdePopede> !live
1023 [10:25:13] <dpkg> it has been said that live is The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system (although the installer is better to use). Live images are available from replaced-url
1024 [10:25:31] <mystic> !thanks
1025 [10:25:32] <dpkg> gern geschehen, mystic
1026 [10:25:42] <EdePopede> dd or cp it to a thumbdrive and you're done. no need for any "usb writers"
1027 [10:26:16] <EdePopede> unless you want a multiboot media, but then i'm not sure where to start atm.
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1029 [10:27:08] <spacekat> ? multi boot on a usb drive, ouch
1030 [10:27:23] <spacekat> use 2 usb drives ... ore mor
1031 [10:27:57] <EdePopede> i should have one, or at least i did so in the past.
1032 [10:28:40] <mystic> i dunno.. to techi=nical for me
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1039 [10:29:37] <EdePopede> spacekat: and why? i can't find 2GB cards for my old cam anymore, some day usb drives will also start at 16GB. no need to waste that space.
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1043 [10:31:46] <at0m> EdePopede: if mystic uses windows now, is there dd? can they cp to the root of the drive?
1044 [10:32:02] <EdePopede> mystic: i had some tutorial for the multiboot solution, a good one i must say. wasn't a problem to follow it. but for a single live image it is a simple task to throw it onto the drive. nb: tht drive, not the (FAT32) fs probably already present on it. that means, save your data you may have on it already (you could dd the whole thing to a file on your hard disk)
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1046 [10:32:56] <EdePopede> hm i guess...
1047 [10:33:00] <EdePopede> !win32diskimager
1048 [10:33:00] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from replaced-url
1049 [10:33:25] <endstille> to create a multiboot stick i think i used this in the past. replaced-url
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1052 [10:34:58] <EdePopede> ah right. i'm horrible with names :>
1053 [10:36:32] <EdePopede> and even if there's no actual need for one, a multiboot stick is a nice bucketlist item. even if just to get it done once to see how things work.
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1056 [10:39:05] <avernos> hello, how can i repair a broken network? broke lo interface i would like to reset it or re do it.
1057 [10:40:14] <jelly> avernos: just bring it back up or reboot
1058 [10:40:33] <jelly> avernos: "ifdown lo; ifup lo" as root
1059 [10:40:55] <Lorek> ifup/ifdown utils have been deprecated in many distros
1060 [10:41:03] <avernos> jelly, its probably misconfigured, how to bring it back? rebooting doesnt work
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1063 [10:41:31] <jelly> avernos: pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces contents. Which debian release is this?
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1066 [10:41:52] <avernos> debian 9
1067 [10:41:58] <yogg> Hi
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1070 [10:42:16] <avernos> my interfaces only has this: auto lo iface lo inet loopback
1071 [10:42:22] <jelly> that's just fine
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1073 [10:43:31] <avernos> added an ethernet line a few times and change it but didnt seem to work. i have another machine without ethernet at interfaces file, so just deleted.
1074 [10:44:00] <Lorek> what's the best place to find a guru on compiling/packaging shared libraries? I've been through all the debian documentation and for whatever reason ldconfig is ignoring the installed libraries even after a ld.so.cache rebuild.
1075 [10:44:13] <avernos> ip l, shows a couple oef virtual networks that arent in interfaces. where are those?
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1077 [10:45:36] <yogg> I'm playing arround with nftables on debian 10. Does someone know what is best practice to setup the default chains? Should I just stay with the "INPUT", "FORWARD", ... chains from iptables or is there an other good way to set this up?
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1079 [10:47:51] <at0m> Lorek: irc.oftc.net has #packaging and #debian-mentors
1080 [10:48:06] <Lorek> thanks atom
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1084 [10:49:08] <avernos> jelly: nevermind. deleted those interfaces that werent at interfaces file with ip and got things to work..
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1115 [11:30:54] <wawrek> Hi there
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1118 [11:32:20] <wawrek> I wanted to know whether debian is difficult to install. Ubuntu, Fedora are quite easy to install for example. How the debian installer compares to those?
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1127 [11:36:57] <EdePopede> wawrek: debian was my 2nd distro ever, and even back in those days (it came on 2 CDs in a Pc magazine) without all the recent tools i had no problems
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1131 [11:37:38] <wawrek> EdePopede: gentoo has a very developed and complex installer.
1132 [11:37:49] <EdePopede> the only thing that EVER went wrong was a mbr being written to the other disk for whatever reason. but that was easily fixed.
1133 [11:38:07] <wawrek> i need something that can be installed by people that don't have a lot of experienc ein compuitng, linux
1134 [11:39:33] <EdePopede> partitioning is a thing, you *may* kill all your data by selecting the wrong disk or later partition to format. but that's nothing specific to debian, and the interfaces are pretty the same everywhere
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1137 [11:40:28] <EdePopede> so if possible using an empty disk and optionally removing the others (safety first, though this may be even too much) keeps you on the safe side
1138 [11:41:15] <EdePopede> but once you're done with it, have the partitions and selected the mountpoints and the file system(s) you want to use go to the next step in the dialog and let it happen
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1140 [11:41:32] <wawrek> ok
1141 [11:41:45] <EdePopede> and about software selections, there are a couple of tasks you can select. but that's a bit tricky i found
1142 [11:41:54] <diogenes_> live debian has a human face installer now, called calamares, very newbue friendly.
1143 [11:42:00] <wawrek> I will have to do partitioning by myself. I want to make a fresh install
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1145 [11:42:28] <wawrek> I will try that
1146 [11:42:37] <wawrek> thanks
1147 [11:42:43] <EdePopede> like when you select the full xfce desktop or so and want to remove one of the packages it installs, well... using more finegrained packages isn't a bad idea
1148 [11:43:05] <EdePopede> calamares Oo
1149 [11:43:09] <wawrek> I want to use xface;
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1151 [11:43:30] <diogenes_> wawrek, xfce is an excellent choice, i use it too.
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1154 [11:43:39] <wawrek> I know
1155 [11:44:00] <wawrek> I wanted to make sure that the installation works out of the box.
1156 [11:44:36] <wawrek> I will try and see how it goes - I havce the minimal installer.
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1160 [11:45:48] <EdePopede> seems to recognize and name already existing installations and to have a before/after screen: replaced-url
1161 [11:45:48] <diogenes_> wawrek, on live images the installer works out of the box and with 5 simple steps you got your system installed, super easy.
1162 [11:45:53] <EdePopede> really nice indeed
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1164 [11:46:12] <diogenes_> EdePopede, yeah, that's it.
1165 [11:46:25] <wawrek> thanks
1166 [11:46:33] <wawrek> will do
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1172 [11:48:38] <binarym> hi all, anyone have a clue or workaround regarding this issue: replaced-url
1173 [11:48:39] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1174 [11:48:53] <binarym> i'm facing the same problem and can't get ride of it.
1175 [11:49:05] <binarym> Even disabling the cache doesn't work (new error ... :-()
1176 [11:49:23] <binarym> s/ride/rid/
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1179 [11:51:48] <jelly> TIL systemd-based fsck at boot is not ^C-able
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1183 [11:54:30] <Fox> shame
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1192 [12:00:10] <Paatisee> hello
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1195 [12:00:23] <Paatisee> hello all
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1201 [12:02:09] <BCMM> Paatisee: hello
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1212 [12:09:30] <cad0c> Hello, is there a dependancy problem with iptables on Buster with libvrtd-daemon-system ?
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1214 [12:10:05] <cad0c> because, I am (was...) currently reunning iptables + libvrtd, and wanted to migrate to nftables, as recommanded everywhere
1215 [12:10:47] <cad0c> and uninstalling iptables just killed my KVM hypervisor.. libvirtd-daemon-system was also removed with iptables
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1218 [12:11:27] <cad0c> a bit annoying because my prod was broken
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1224 [12:11:51] <cad0c> Well, it's just for you information
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1239 [12:20:27] <guanche> hi, how can I install a testing package on stretch? I've tried adding the preference.d files and updating sources.list with testing and unstable versions, yet I can't find the desired package despite of being listed on packages.debian website
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1821 [12:40:07] <BCMM> woah, i haven't seen a freenode netsplit in forever
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1823 [12:40:23] <BCMM> guanche: did you do apt update after editing sources.list?
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1899 [13:13:05] <sourcream> Is it possible to rate limit all ports for incoming websocket connections?
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1902 [13:15:26] <colo-work> sourcream, what's the actual problem you want to solve?
1903 [13:15:51] <sourcream> colo-work, I have multiple gameservers running in one machine, I need to prevent attacker for opening lot of connections to one server
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1905 [13:15:58] <sourcream> nodejs lags when somebody does that
1906 [13:16:09] <sourcream> I tried to fix this application level but its bad and still has lag
1907 [13:16:21] <sourcream> and everytime I open new gameserver in that same machine, it will pick new port
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1911 [13:17:03] <colo-work> sourcream, check out replaced-url
1912 [13:17:18] <colo-work> maybe you can combined that with ipsets if/when your "attackers"/users go wide
1913 [13:17:57] <sourcream> oh I actually read that, wait does that tutorial require port to be specified
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1917 [13:19:34] <sourcream> colo-work, what would be simplest way to test iptables stuff if I have vps
1918 [13:19:40] <sourcream> would netcat help?
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1920 [13:22:06] <Fox> netcat and nmap would help
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1922 [13:23:31] <sourcream> Fox, okii :)
1923 [13:23:56] <Lorek> couldn't you just log the connection attempt and use a fail2ban rule?
1924 [13:24:19] <colo-work> Lorek, that's going to be MUCH worse for the purpose
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1932 [13:26:35] <FinalX> sourcream: if you have nginx in front of it, you can rate limit within nginx
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1934 [13:27:03] <sourcream> FinalX, yeah that would easier, the problem is that I need to add dynamically new gameservers so I had to modify nginx config and reload it everytime I add new
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1937 [13:29:48] <FinalX> sourcream: nginx -s reload is safe, though, and won't interrupt existing connections. if it's really dynamic, you can look into nginx with lua (is in debian, but you'll have to add libraries yourself) or openresty (not in debian, older version but comes with a ton of libraries to use) which can also talk directly to things like redis and mysql and have timers, shared memory cache for workers etc
1938 [13:30:17] <FinalX> scales well, I do it in my loadbalancers for 10k+ sites fully dynamically
1939 [13:30:22] <Lorek> there's also haproxy which has better logging if you're going the load balancer route
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1942 [13:31:18] <FinalX> haproxy isn't as versatile as nginx is with lua, though, and you'd still have to reload if adding new gameservers.. not sure haproxy won't interrupt existing connections
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1945 [13:32:09] <sourcream> oh thanks! I could look into nginx if the ip tables thing wont work
1946 [13:32:21] <sourcream> what is purpose of netcat?
1947 [13:32:24] <sourcream> what is it used mostly
1948 [13:32:31] <sourcream> I just tested it and I can send message with it :)
1949 [13:32:40] <Fox> you could put your game servers in dockers behind a traefik container
1950 [13:32:47] * Fox burns in flame
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1953 [13:33:30] <sourcream> hmm
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1955 [13:33:43] <FinalX> please just no, lol
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1961 [13:34:58] <Lorek> yelp's spent a lot of time at getting zero downtime with haproxy and post to their engineering board.
1962 [13:35:07] <Lorek> replaced-url
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1965 [13:36:06] <Lorek> its not for the faint though.
1966 [13:36:06] <sourcream> btw nginx and haproxy are they similar
1967 [13:36:11] <sourcream> I heard people use both for same purpose
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1969 [13:36:47] <Fox> FinalX: why not ? I'm not one of those people you want to put containers everywhere, but sometimes it's ok
1970 [13:36:56] <FinalX> no, haproxy is better at plain loadbalancer work, nginx is better at very versatile http stuff
1971 [13:37:11] <FinalX> Fox: let's not start that here
1972 [13:37:18] <Fox> no prob
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1979 [13:39:07] <Lorek> there's a more overhead with docker than most people realize
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1982 [13:40:50] <colo-work> oh yes.
1983 [13:41:11] <sourcream> wait with iptables its easy to block all packets from specific ip?
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1988 [13:43:19] <znull> hi, how can i dump my bios?
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1993 [13:45:37] <petn-randall> znull: Depends on the device if it's even possible.
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1995 [13:45:49] <znull> petn-randall, thinkpad x230
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1998 [13:46:42] <petn-randall> znull: You can dump it with a bus pirate and a 2nd device. I'm not sure it's possible to read it from within. Maybe it's possible with flashrom.
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2006 [13:52:00] <jelly> znull: perhaps ask in ##ibmthinkpad
2007 [13:52:38] <znull> ok jelly thanks
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2009 [13:54:31] <tsglove> n00b question: say I have half a dozen servers... suggestions to keep them all up-to-date? I can ssh into them and update... yet is there a better way?
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2012 [13:56:06] <FinalX> tsglove: there's "unattended-upgrades" which can be tweaked to your liking, too
2013 [13:56:09] <preview> installin a package yet doesn't seem to function
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2015 [13:56:30] <preview> audacious : ERROR plugin-init.cc:146 [start_required]: No output plugin found. after installing required dependency
2016 [13:56:32] <tsglove> ah... I'll look into it. Thank you both
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2018 [13:56:45] <FinalX> tsglove: alternatively you can use things like ansible/puppet etc to manage a bunch of servers from one location
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2023 [13:57:04] <tsglove> FinalX, any quick pro/cons about ansible/puppet?
2024 [13:58:56] <FinalX> we use a combination of both. puppet is a central master from which clients can grab a state of how they should be, incl. purging of stuff that shouldn't be there. ansible is more sending actions/commands to other locations, even though it also has a similar way of letting clients get their config from a master.
2025 [13:59:37] <tsglove> Interesting. I'll see if I start with one for some testing. Thank you!
2026 [13:59:42] <FinalX> puppet's more to actively keep the state/configuration of a machine in a certain way, ansible is great for quickly setting up stuff or executing/applying commands/actions to a bunch of machines
2027 [14:00:04] <colo-work> both have the same pros and cons - they bring structure and established process into managening complex systems, but you'll eventually tear your hair out due to their respective downsides and shortcomings :> still, it's MUCH better to have any of the two, than to have none of the two (or their alternatives)
2028 [14:00:09] <FinalX> we use puppet for managing our hundreds of servers, but we also use ansible in places.. and sometimes even ansible *from* puppet
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2031 [14:00:51] <tsglove> Super. I'm going to dive in and give it a go. Thanks to both
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2034 [14:01:46] <FinalX> tsglove: something simple like replaced-url
2035 [14:02:25] <colo-work> s/managening/managing
2036 [14:02:27] <FinalX> and then you just have a hosts file in ansible with details on how to connect to those hosts (ip, port, etc) and it'll execute those on all
2037 [14:02:52] <FinalX> ..or a group of machines that you specify, or a single host, etc
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2043 [14:04:08] <tsglove> Wow interesting. I have to study this. So you don't specify apt-get upgrade in the file. You use the ansible-terms force_apt_get: true
2044 [14:04:11] <tsglove> for example
2045 [14:04:44] <FinalX> yeah and combine them, or use labels to only do certain things from a big playbook etc
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2047 [14:05:48] <tsglove> super... gonna start with that. =)
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2049 [14:06:36] <hans__> i'm guessing that's not supposed to happen? replaced-url
2050 [14:07:42] <FinalX> tsglove: at work our Puppet server is leading, but personally I use a lot of very small VPSs at different providers and most have low RAM and CPU. Puppet takes a lot of resources on both server and client and runs at set intervals. With Ansible, it just starts Python with small scripts on the client side, and you can execute it only when necessary (like only when you make changes). For me, for those VPSs,
2051 [14:07:43] <FinalX> that's *much* better/cleaner.
2052 [14:07:50] <hans__> nginx -v reports 1.14.2, and i got no errors running `service nginx restart` tho
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2055 [14:08:21] <hans__> (and i'm not running a custom compiled nginx or anything like that)
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2057 [14:08:50] <FinalX> hans__: what does nginx -t say?
2058 [14:08:51] <tsglove> FinalX, with that I'm definitely starting with ansible. I too run multiple (less than 20) small VPS. I like to separate my services/applications into their own server.
2059 [14:09:14] <hans__> FinalX, nginx: the configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf syntax is ok nginx: configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf test is successful
2060 [14:09:18] <tsglove> There was an article once that said "treat your servers like cows, not pets". That always stuck with me.
2061 [14:09:32] <FinalX> hans__: becayse systemctl restart nginx will usually do nginx -s reload, not restart, and if nginx finds an error in the config, it just doesn't load the new config
2062 [14:09:45] <hans__> well i don't think that's the problem
2063 [14:09:45] <FinalX> hans__: hm, odd.
2064 [14:09:52] <FinalX> no, with that I don't think so either
2065 [14:10:05] <hans__> ohhh right
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2067 [14:10:35] <hans__> i think it was installed with buster pre-release, that's probably why (it was insatlled with buster installer release candidate 7 iirc?)
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2093 [14:31:18] <iamgr00t> omg./... 13 FLs.. 11 adult, 1 soundtrack, and 1 game..... lol, gotta change the name to Adult Games Network!! ;P
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2097 [14:35:05] <humpled> oh all these people hating on avahi-daemon but i don't even have it for some reason
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2147 [15:02:57] <Enissay> In weechat, whenever I renew my SSL certificate (via bash script) I need to execute "/relay sslcertkey" in the client so it takes effect. Can that be done executed through a bash command ?
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2150 [15:03:19] <cpplearner> Guys, I want to hold debian kernel updates with `apt-mark`. Is it fine to hold only the two `linux-headers-...`, `linux-image-...`? I mean, there are other packages starting with `linux-`, but I'm not sure I should also hold those.
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2156 [15:05:55] <wm4> can anyone explain why running "startx -- :2" in a free virtual console kills my x session started by xdm, while doing "startx" does not?
2157 [15:06:52] <wm4> I suspect it's caused by systemd-logind or something, but this is just a guess based on random stuff appearing in the xorg log
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2159 [15:07:44] <wm4> also is there any reason why debian is apparently freezing on qt 5.11
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2162 [15:09:03] <wm4> it doesn't seem to have any advantages, and qt 5.12 is even a LTS version (while 5.11 is not)
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2177 [15:16:35] <colo-work> wm4, just happens to have been the qt release in debian at the time buster was frozen
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2179 [15:18:27] <wm4> I'm using unstable, so they don't really have a reason to stay with it
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2181 [15:19:46] <colo-work> "they" won't stay with it :) but packaging complex stuff takes time.
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2194 [15:28:10] <sourcream> What is iptables recent module --name argument used for
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2207 [15:38:53] <n_1-c_k> Enissay, I don't know either but try in #weechat
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2216 [15:42:55] <hdb2> I have a wheezy machine that I need to upgrade. should my upgrade path be wheezy > jessie > stretch, or wheezy > stretch?
2217 [15:43:18] <dvs> the former
2218 [15:43:25] <hdb2> dvs: thank you
2219 [15:43:30] <dvs> np
2220 [15:44:07] <tradar> hdb2: i think you can update the debian-archive-keyring package and then just go with wheezy > stretch
2221 [15:44:22] <dvs> not recommended
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2223 [15:44:41] <karlpinc> hdb2: Always go from one major release to the next, don't skip.
2224 [15:44:42] <tradar> 'just works'
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2226 [15:45:19] <colo-work> I'd be _especially_ wary when upgrading from wheezy, if you're also switching from sysv to systemd.
2227 [15:45:28] <colo-work> so no, don't skip jessie.
2228 [15:45:31] <karlpinc> hdb2: And it does not hurt to read the release notes to get instructions.
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2230 [15:46:03] <karlpinc> hdb2: And I think the jessie upgrade introduces backwards-incompatible changes to apache, so if you use that then you'll need to fuss with getting apache working on jessie.
2231 [15:46:19] <karlpinc> (Again, read the instructions.)
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2237 [15:47:15] <jelly> hdb2: skipping releases is not supported at all and things would break
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2248 [15:51:38] <hdb2> karlpinc: I've got the release notes printed out so I can look over them and make notes. I'll be sure to read thru them before the upgrade
2249 [15:51:49] <humpled> -
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2257 [15:56:17] <wm4> also are you aware that _any_ qmake built programs currently forcibly add -O2 to the build
2258 [15:56:22] <wm4> that seems like a major fuckup by debian
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2260 [15:56:54] <wm4> qmake is patched to force use of dpkg-buildflags, and dpkg-buildflags adds -O2 for invalid reasons (something about _FORTIFY)
2261 [15:57:06] <Brigo> dazn is telling me that my browser is not supported, i need to upgrade to a newer one. :-(
2262 [15:57:14] <wm4> this is extremely annoying when you try to debug a qt program
2263 [15:57:32] <wm4> and requires hunting down the under-documented ways to make dpkg-buildflags not add these
2264 [15:58:12] <karlpinc> Brigo: What version of debian are you on and what browser are you using?
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2267 [15:58:59] <Brigo> stable, 60.8.0 esr
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2272 [16:00:12] <karlpinc> Brigo: I'd install the "user agent switcher" plugin and lie about what you're using.
2273 [16:00:58] <Brigo> karlpinc, very clever. I already did it. It didn't work. It worth the try thougt.
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2276 [16:01:16] <Brigo> though*
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2278 [16:01:48] <ninja> is the problem with qutebrowser?
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2280 [16:02:22] <karlpinc> Brigo: I think there's something on the wiki about newer browsers.
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2283 [16:03:31] <EdePopede> Brigo: maybe they don't check the UA string but the capabilities, as it should be.
2284 [16:03:36] <karlpinc> Brigo: I'm not sure how the server would know what browser you're on if you change the user agent.
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2286 [16:04:12] <karlpinc> EdePopede: Feed the browser some js and see what it does?
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2288 [16:05:16] <EdePopede> replaced-url
2289 [16:05:20] <EdePopede> just some quick finds ;)
2290 [16:06:02] <EdePopede> karlpinc: basically yes. if obects exist, if they can do certain things, what they answer when queried.
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2293 [16:07:38] <EdePopede> karlpinc, if you have the addon installed, does it work here? replaced-url
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2302 [16:10:25] <karlpinc> Brigo: ^
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2306 [16:10:54] <Brigo> karlpinc, already on it
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2317 [16:16:25] <Brigo> EdePopede, it works.
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2328 [16:19:29] <Chaos-Sloth> Hi Oh lords of the internet, may I ask for a favour? I am trying to reach my government. I downloaded the website that references all their personal sites and in each site there is an emal. I want to send a short cortual emal to each of them asking if any one of them would meet me. I'm litterate, I can do coding etc. Just tell me what to sype in and we're cool
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2330 [16:20:20] <Mathisen> hmm that was a strange one...
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2333 [16:22:53] <EdePopede> shouldn't this be "Oh, High Lords of the Internet"?
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2335 [16:24:47] <Chaos-Sloth> Well Mathisen, you've ever felt powerless and wanted to make a difference if possible? I felt watching the British parliament that the things that go on there are a farse. I don't believe we live in a democracy. I'm from Iceland by the way.
2336 [16:25:06] <Chaos-Sloth> I just wanted somebody to give me 5 minutes to talk to me? And.. werll they never reply.
2337 [16:25:14] <Chaos-Sloth> So What am I doing wrong?
2338 [16:25:15] <Mathisen> Chaos-Sloth, hey do what you want, but you kinda in the wrong channel for this.
2339 [16:25:50] <Chaos-Sloth> I am autistic, I am at fault logical. I know that. And maybe they don't want to talk to me.
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2346 [16:28:31] <jelly> Chaos-Sloth: email is not an immediate reply form of contact. Allow a couple days for a reply.
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2348 [16:29:40] <jelly> Chaos-Sloth: also, #debian, this channel, is for tech support for a specific operating system. Your query might be better suited to ##chat or #help or even #debian-offtopic
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2350 [16:30:54] <Chaos-Sloth> Ok I'm so sorry. I just thoguh these people will know what I need. I didn't mean to break any rules. I'll mopve to another place
2351 [16:31:01] <Chaos-Sloth> Thank you for your patience
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2360 [16:38:39] <astronavt> chaology that said, you could probably rig up an auto-emailing script in bash. i'm not sure what UK spam laws are but you will want to make sure you don't run afoul of them
2361 [16:38:56] <astronavt> it's probably better just to write 1 email and copy-and-paste the list of emails into the BCC field of your email client
2362 [16:39:36] <astronavt> oh wrong tag
2363 [16:39:40] <astronavt> poor soul
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2375 [16:43:23] <makalu> I have a tp-link tl-wn821n wifi dongle. I installed the firmware suggested here (replaced-url
2376 [16:43:57] <Laserburn> have you tried ethtool?
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2378 [16:44:15] <makalu> I haven't heard of it, I'll look it up
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2387 [16:47:51] <makalu> well I don't have a device name to pass to ethtool since I only have eth0 and lo
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2395 [16:51:33] <makalu> maybe I need to edit /etc/network/interfaces somehow?
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2398 [16:52:17] <greycat> makalu: if it doesn't show up in "ip link", editing /e/n/i will not help
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2400 [16:53:18] <makalu> it doesn't show up :(
2401 [16:53:28] <Soo_Slow> does anybody there use ncmpcpp? Is it possible to add music into its library not from whole $HOME/Music, but excluding some of its subfolders?
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2409 [16:57:02] <makalu> lshw -class network doesn't show it either
2410 [16:57:31] <greycat> are there errors in dmesg that might help figure out why it's not being recognized?
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2420 [17:01:25] <cryptopsy> why is rsync -av --delete-before --inplace rewriting my files repeatedly when synching to a microSD card through sshfs?
2421 [17:02:08] <hop> *twitch*
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2423 [17:02:23] <makalu> greycat: it's difficult to copy output from a computer with no internet :D. But there's a line "usbcore: registered new interface driver ath9k_htc" which would suggest that it's recognised?
2424 [17:02:24] <greycat> #rsync might be better suited to answer this. What do you mean by "rewriting", and what do you mean by "repeatedly"?
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2426 [17:02:53] <greycat> makalu: that's just loading the module, not actually finding the devices.
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2428 [17:03:21] <ctrlrisc> makalu: does lsusb show it?
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2431 [17:04:04] <cryptopsy> greycat: if i run my sync command multiple times it writes files that were previously copied
2432 [17:04:05] <greycat> Earlier they said "lsusb recognizes the device", no details beyond that.
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2435 [17:04:31] <ddpn23> hi, i have a problem with samba (debian10): very slow read speeds from share (20-60MB/s), whereas writespeeds to same share are around 100-105MB/s. installed ramdisk on client for testing, so i don't have a bottleneck on clientside.
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2437 [17:04:39] <greycat> cryptopsy: that indicates that something about the copy is different from the original. Size, timestamps, owner, permissions, etc.
2438 [17:05:09] <ddpn23> dd test on server (if=largefile of=/dev/null) delivers read speeds around 200MB/s
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2440 [17:05:34] <ctrlrisc> cryptopsy: adding to what greycat said, is the sd card FAT formatted? That filesystem doesn't preserve permissions or ownership so the target file will always be different from the source
2441 [17:05:37] <makalu> there are lines about "new usb device found", manufacturer realtek, product 802.11n NIC which might be related but it says realtek for some reason instead of tp-link
2442 [17:06:18] <ctrlrisc> makalu: tp-link might have made the device, but it's got a realtek chip in it, apparently. Though I don't know why you'd be loading the athereos driver for that device
2443 [17:06:45] <cryptopsy> greycat: with --ignore-times, it still rewrites
2444 [17:06:45] <cryptopsy> ls shows same file sizes
2445 [17:06:54] <makalu> ctrlrisc, the wiki page lists it as a supported device replaced-url
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2447 [17:07:08] <makalu> TL-WN821N
2448 [17:07:34] <ctrlrisc> cryptopsy: what file system is the card
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2452 [17:07:51] <cryptopsy> ctrlrisc: i dont know .. whatever android 7.0 made it
2453 [17:07:58] <greycat> ...
2454 [17:08:03] <makalu> I installed the firmware by downloading the deb for unstable (I'm using unstable) and just running dpkg -i foobar
2455 [17:08:17] <makalu> should I be doing something more?
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2458 [17:08:38] <cryptopsy> ctrlrisc: how do you propose i check?
2459 [17:08:49] <greycat> makalu: I believe the question at this point is what the *actual* chipset in the device is, since it may have nothing to do with the model number printed on the outside of the casing.
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2461 [17:09:11] <ctrlrisc> cryptopsy: it's probably FAT formatted then. The file will always be different from the source because permissions are different. Though I'm not an expert on whether rsync uses that info in determining if a file is new or not
2462 [17:09:29] <makalu> greycat, oh ok. I have never used such a device so I was not sure what I was supposed to be looking at.
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2466 [17:09:44] <ctrlrisc> makalu: what greycat just said. Sometimes vendors put different chipsets in the same model of device
2467 [17:10:16] <ctrlrisc> makalu: it sounds more like you have a realtek chip in that device, thus the ath9k driver doesn't work with it
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2469 [17:10:36] <enkrypt> so, today I resize one of the ext4 partitions on my *secondary* harddisk. I shrunk it, and created a brand new NTFS partition on that same disk, all using gparted. so far so good. however since I did that my windows 7 doesn't boot any more. Debian itself boots fine. I've followed EVERY article I could find online, including the Startup Repair from a windows 7 ISO USB stick, but nothing works
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2471 [17:10:53] <cryptopsy> with --ignore-times --no-perms --no-owner --no-group it is still rewriting
2472 [17:10:58] <enkrypt> I have no idea how resizing a non-root ext4 partition can somehow damage something on a windows installation which isn't even on the same disk
2473 [17:11:00] <makalu> ctrlrisc and greycat, thank you, that sounds like a good idea to check
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2476 [17:11:53] <greycat> enkrypt: I don't have specific advice for you, but consider the possibility that whatever happened to the Windows system is completely unrelated to what you did to your ext4 file system. You might be seeing a coincidence.
2477 [17:12:15] <enkrypt> greycat: perhaps :/
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2479 [17:12:53] <ctrlrisc> enkrypt: no real idea as windows does stupid shit, but it might be more related to creating the new NTFS partition. Try deleting that partition (I'm assuming its an extra windows partition?) and see if windows boots
2480 [17:13:17] <enkrypt> ctrlrisc: indeed I tried deleting that new (empty) partition, doesn't help
2481 [17:14:39] <ctrlrisc> enkrypt: unfortunately I'm less than useless when it comes to Windows bootup, I'm a full-time linux guy
2482 [17:14:50] <greycat> cryptopsy: try #rsync probably
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2502 [17:22:43] <makalu> I removed firmware-atheros and installed firmware-realtek as it seems from the source code file on the vendor's website that it has some version of rtl8192 but it still doesn't work. I guess I should try compiling it as the vendor suggests.
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2506 [17:27:54] <makalu> nice, it doesn't compile with 4.19 :)
2507 [17:28:43] <greycat> *what* are you compiling, and how do you know it's the correct driver for this chipset?
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2513 [17:36:16] <ctrlrisc> isn't the firmware-* packages just simply the /lib/firmware binary blobs, rather than the drivers?
2514 [17:36:29] <greycat> correct
2515 [17:36:34] <ctrlrisc> your system should already have an r8192 kmod
2516 [17:37:21] <greycat> there's rtl8192e and rtl8192u ...
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2518 [17:37:34] <ctrlrisc> Yeah I have the r8192 kmods on my system here
2519 [17:37:44] <greycat> ... or maybe not. locate showed me these things but modinfo does not.
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2521 [17:38:18] <greycat> r8192u_usb exists though
2522 [17:38:45] <ctrlrisc> yeah sudo modinfo r8192u_usb works here
2523 [17:39:05] <ctrlrisc> makalu: try modprobe r8192u_usb
2524 [17:39:09] <greycat> can be run as an ordinary user if you just stick /sbin/ in front of it
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2526 [17:39:37] <ctrlrisc> greycat: yeah, I just get lazy with remembering which require root or not, if it's in /sbin I just use sudo
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2532 [17:46:59] <zodd_> on replaced-url
2533 [17:48:43] <cryptopsy> greycat: does the / at the end of the local path influence the behavior ? i am still getting rewrite with -r --size-only
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2535 [17:48:57] <greycat> ask #rsync
2536 [17:49:15] <Habbie> cryptopsy, it does
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2540 [17:49:40] <cryptopsy> my full command is rsync -r --size-only --progress /root/.d1/ /tmp/.pp/
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2551 [17:55:02] <brutser> anyone can help > why does my luks header file get 20M in size? i create a file with dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1049600 count=1 > myheader and then i cryptsetup using this file, i use --align-payload= xx which i set to about that 20MB size, i guess that is the reason, but i thought that had nothing to do with the header?
2552 [17:55:16] <brutser> or point me to right channel for this?i thought align-payload would just create offset for the encrypted container, not the header file
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2563 [18:00:51] <sunzero> i am with GNOME dm
2564 [18:01:03] <sunzero> how can i change it to default gnome DE
2565 [18:01:15] <sunzero> how can i change it to default debian DE
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2569 [18:03:20] <sunzero> !de
2570 [18:03:21] <dpkg> Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de).
2571 [18:03:33] <sunzero> !dm
2572 [18:03:33] <dpkg> DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, sddm, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: replaced-url
2573 [18:04:15] <sunzero> !debian
2574 [18:04:16] <dpkg> methinks debian is replaced-url
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2576 [18:05:02] <ctrlrisc> sunzero: I don't think there is a default DM in debian, I always just install lightdm after my initial installation
2577 [18:05:11] <ctrlrisc> sunzero: are you meaning you want to use gnome dm?
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2579 [18:05:35] <sunzero> no
2580 [18:05:38] <sunzero> debain de
2581 [18:05:47] <ctrlrisc> desktop environment?
2582 [18:05:52] <sunzero> yes
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2584 [18:06:02] <ctrlrisc> there is no debian desktop environment
2585 [18:06:06] <sunzero> i am with gdm3 dm
2586 [18:06:07] <sunzero> err
2587 [18:06:31] <sunzero> ctrlrisc: then what is debian default desktop envoirnment in installation
2588 [18:06:31] <ravioli> 2020 will be the year of the pfsense desktop
2589 [18:06:35] <zodd_> gdm3: gnome desktop manager 3
2590 [18:06:45] <ctrlrisc> debian allows you to install and use several DEs, but I don't believe there's any that are default
2591 [18:07:11] <sunzero> ctrlrisc: gnome?
2592 [18:07:20] <ctrlrisc> does debian 10 install a DE by default? My installations always boot to a command line
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2594 [18:07:29] <ctrlrisc> then I apt install mate-desktop
2595 [18:07:35] <greycat> It depends on what you select during installation.
2596 [18:07:37] <zodd_> sunzero, depends on the installation medium/download you chose
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2598 [18:07:58] <sunzero> ..
2599 [18:08:07] <greycat> If you don't change the default settings in the regular installation image, you will end up with GNOME.
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2603 [18:08:35] <greycat> If you DO change the settings, you will get whatever you selected, or none.
2604 [18:08:57] <sunzero> greycat: oks
2605 [18:09:02] <sunzero> greycat: thanks
2606 [18:09:13] <ctrlrisc> greycat: is that a new thing? I've always gotten no GUI at all by default
2607 [18:09:54] <greycat> I always go out of my way to make SURE it doesn't install a desktop during the installer.
2608 [18:10:12] <ctrlrisc> greycat: weird. Which installer do you use? The netinst one?
2609 [18:10:16] <greycat> yes
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2611 [18:10:31] <humpled> i tried out the 'standard install' from among the desktop environments, it doesn't include any DE even though it's still over 1GB
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2613 [18:10:46] <ctrlrisc> well now I'm racking my brain trying to remember the last time I installed...I don't think I ever did anything special
2614 [18:10:49] <greycat> Correct. "Standard" just includes basic tools like aptitude.
2615 [18:10:53] <humpled> most of the extra is taken up with locales and an arm compiler for some reason
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2618 [18:11:18] <greycat> Or maybe not even aptitude, who knows any more. I can't keep track of this.
2619 [18:12:01] <ctrlrisc> I don't think aptitude is included. Its not present on my machines, which are the standard installs
2620 [18:12:14] <greycat> !standard
2621 [18:12:14] <dpkg> standard task is, like, a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
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2623 [18:12:55] <greycat> ok, looks like you can use aptitude show '~pstandard' | grep ^Package
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2625 [18:13:14] <greycat> and yeah, there's probably some way to do that without piping to grep, but it would take me 4 orders of magnitude more effort to figure it out
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2627 [18:14:26] <greycat> so, things like wget
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2629 [18:15:19] <brutser> i dont understand this, i create header file for dm-crypt (dd if=/dev/zero bs=1049600 count=1 of=myheader) - then i encrypt sda (cryptsetup luksFormat --hash=sha512 --key-size=512 --header myheader /dev/sda) - after that command, the header file (myheader) is now 16.0M in size - why did that happen? i want the header file to stay at the minimum ~1.
2630 [18:15:19] <brutser> 1M size why it grow to 16.0M??
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2652 [18:25:23] <bolovanos> hithere
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2654 [18:25:53] <dvs> oi
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2656 [18:28:25] <bolovanos> I have cloned my debian stretch from my vps, than I have tried to run it on virtual box, but "Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found. Try passing init= option to kernel. ..." appears
2657 [18:29:28] <bolovanos> I was looking into suggested replaced-url
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2660 [18:31:17] <dvs> bolovanos, "update-initramfs -u -k all" perhaps?
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2663 [18:32:52] <bolovanos> dvs, hi - where can I run that command - that system does not start -> there is no command line
2664 [18:34:02] <bolovanos> dvs, same with recovery mode
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2667 [18:36:04] <dvs> bolovanos, I usually use an installer ISO and use recovery mode to switch over to the installed root system
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2670 [18:36:57] <hans__> uhh... why can't nginx access the test folder, apparently? replaced-url
2671 [18:37:02] <bolovanos> dvs, sounds good - would you recommend some guide?
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2673 [18:37:31] <hans__> nginx configuration is here, but it's 99% just debian 10 default configuration (just added php-fpm connection), replaced-url
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2675 [18:37:48] <wawrek_> on the official debian installer there are several options for installing debian; simple install, and more complex stuff
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2678 [18:38:20] <wawrek_> what is the thing to do when installing debian? how should I proceed with the options that are available?
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2681 [18:39:18] <hans__> wawrek_, i just chose the minimal options + standard utils + ssh server, then install whatever i need after that
2682 [18:39:30] <hans__> but..
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2684 [18:39:39] <wawrek_> hans__: yeah?
2685 [18:39:53] <hans__> yeah. i don't trust the debian installer to set up my email server the way i want it :p
2686 [18:39:58] <bolovanos> dvs, maybe replaced-url
2687 [18:40:10] <wawrek_> hans__: thanks :)
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2691 [18:41:29] <dvs> bolovanos, yeah, that's the recovery mode I was referring to.
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2704 [18:45:42] <bolovanos> dvs, will try it, thank you for now
2705 [18:45:51] <dvs> np
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2709 [18:47:52] <Akuw> is there any site where i can find description of syslogs? what any error means
2710 [18:49:08] <greycat> Akuw: replaced-url
2711 [18:49:26] <BCMM> greycat: why are you so intentionally unhelpful?
2712 [18:49:54] <Akuw> BCMM: i dont know why asking something is a problem with him
2713 [18:49:54] *** Quits: hans__ (~hans@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2714 [18:49:55] <greycat> I am not unhelpful. That is the best site to paste your random error messages and get meaningful answers.
2715 [18:50:18] <greycat> Akuw: your /ignore just expired. Trying for the speed record in getting back on the list?
2716 [18:50:18] <Akuw> i know google, but because this is debian channel could be somebody knows good docs
2717 [18:50:21] <BCMM> Akuw: there's a lot of stuff in syslog, from a lot of different sources. there isn't any one place that documents all of it.
2718 [18:50:26] *** Joins: uio (~uio3@replaced-ip )
2719 [18:50:54] <uio> Hi. I have to use a web app for work that involves silverlight. Any advice on this?
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2721 [18:51:02] <Akuw> BCMM: but how to interpret or know what means a line of log?
2722 [18:51:11] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
2723 [18:51:16] <BCMM> Akuw: do you have a specific example in mind, or is this a general question
2724 [18:51:26] <greycat> Paste it into google and one of the results will very likely explain it.
2725 [18:51:45] <Akuw> Aug 30 08:47:27 cl04x0001mlc01 kernel: [25487564.269969] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: WARN Event TRB for slot 1 ep 4 with no TDs queued?
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2727 [18:51:47] <uio> Some seem to suggest installing snapd... and then installing moonlight via snapd. Is Snap fine?
2728 [18:51:56] <Akuw> many of that
2729 [18:52:09] <BCMM> Akuw: well, right at the start it tells you where that line came from: the kernel
2730 [18:52:11] <Akuw> some kind of bug
2731 [18:52:34] <Akuw> replaced-url
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2733 [18:52:36] <greycat> It's a warning, not a "bug". It say "WARN" right there in the middle of it.
2734 [18:52:39] <BCMM> uio: huh, i actually thought it was EOL even on windows, but apparently we've got another two years before that...
2735 [18:52:58] <uio> BCMM, Silverlight needs to die!
2736 [18:53:04] <uio> BCMM, It's time.
2737 [18:53:19] <greycat> It also says xhci_hcd which is the name of the kernel module that generated this warning. HCI is Human Computer Interface, so it's likely some kind of input device like a keyboard, mouse, touchpad, drawing tablet, etc.
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2739 [18:53:24] <uio> I haven't come across a webapp that needed it in like over 5 years.
2740 [18:53:39] <Akuw> greycat: thanks
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2742 [18:54:00] <Akuw> this host is connected to a monitoring system
2743 [18:54:00] <BCMM> Akuw: so "kernel:" tells you it's basically dmesg output. within that line from the kernel, it starts by telling you the kernel driver that's generated the message: xhci_hcd
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2745 [18:54:09] <uio> Apparently Moonlight used to be in the Deborepos, but not longer seems to be...
2746 [18:54:38] <laptop2> uio: CoreCLR/.NET Core is taken from Silverlight
2747 [18:54:41] <laptop2> And continued from that
2748 [18:54:57] <laptop2> but yeah the UI components are long since dead at this point
2749 [18:55:26] <BCMM> uio: moonlight is abandoned upstream, i think
2750 [18:55:35] <laptop2> that too
2751 [18:55:36] <uio> BCMM, Yeah, just saw that too.
2752 [18:55:39] <uio> Sigh.
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2754 [18:56:01] <BCMM> wouldn't be surprised if it was taken out of debian for a known security issue
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2756 [18:56:09] <laptop2> MS open-sourced the WPF base nowadays but it's extensively tangled with Windows APIs
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2758 [18:56:18] <uio> I mean, the real problem is sliverlight, let's be clear. But I will have to use this web app, and don't want to have to use wine or windows.
2759 [18:56:19] <laptop2> So I guess to not expect anything from that
2760 [18:56:29] <uio> laptop2, Ah.
2761 [18:56:57] <BCMM> greycat, uio: "host controller interface", not "human computer interface"
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2763 [18:57:23] <BCMM> xhci is the standard interface between usb3 controllers and the OS
2764 [18:57:37] <BCMM> (the term for mice and so on, in usb jargon, is "HID")
2765 [18:57:41] <greycat> Oh, am I getting things mixed up? :(
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2768 [18:58:14] <laptop2> uio, MS made a Silverlight port to macOS in the past
2769 [18:58:17] <BCMM> at least, standard on PCs. i guess arm device and so on probably use a different usb3 driver
2770 [18:58:24] <uio> laptop2, Would replaced-url
2771 [18:58:24] <laptop2> But it's much more dead than the Windows one
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2773 [18:58:42] <laptop2> uio: .NET Core on Linux ships with no UI components whatsoever
2774 [18:58:52] <greycat> Well, I apologize for that part. Anyway, /sbin/modinfo xhci_hcd gives a *tiny* bit of description of what the module does. In this case, "/lib/modules/4.19.0-5-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/host/xhci-hcd.ko" tells you it's USB, and "'eXtensible' Host Controller (xHC) Driver" tells me... basically nothing.
2775 [18:58:53] <uio> uio, Okay.
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2778 [18:59:26] <BCMM> uio: i think there used to be a thing for running the closed-source silverlight itself through wine
2779 [18:59:27] <laptop2> BCMM, ARM SBSA/SBBR at least is making that much more standard than before
2780 [18:59:43] <BCMM> laptop2: xhci, or some other interface?
2781 [18:59:47] <uio> There has to be a way around this Silverlight thing... non?
2782 [19:00:01] <uio> BCMM, Pipeline.
2783 [19:00:25] <laptop2> BCMM, xhci for host-only ports, dwc3 or something else SoC maker dependent for the OTG ports that support device mode
2784 [19:00:38] <BCMM> uio: that's the one. thing is, i don't know if any mainstream browser let you run plugins these days
2785 [19:00:57] <uio> BCMM, Sigh.
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2787 [19:01:18] <BCMM> greycat: it just means it's a usb3 controller basically
2788 [19:01:29] <laptop2> uio: your only sane choice might be a Windows VM with IE11, and I'm not even kidding on that one
2789 [19:01:52] <uio> Well, I'll probably just end up using work's computer's. I don't want to contaminate my machine.
2790 [19:02:14] <uio> Can't believe Silverlight is still around.
2791 [19:02:18] <makalu> greycat, ctrlrisc I was away for a while. I tried that modprobe command and while it ran successfully, nothing changed.
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2793 [19:02:43] <laptop2> uio: yes, despite MS trying to kill it too, and Flash is still around nowadays
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2795 [19:02:59] * humpled puts fingers in ears
2796 [19:03:03] <BCMM> uio: it basically isn't still around, which is probably why compatibility tools for it aren't really developed any more
2797 [19:03:04] <uio> laptop2, Would an old moonlight package work though? Would there be any risks?
2798 [19:03:08] <laptop2> People making those things don't even move until security support fully ends
2799 [19:03:36] <makalu> I was trying to compile the driver sources here replaced-url
2800 [19:03:38] <laptop2> uio: Moonlight is very outdated and you won't find many browsers if even one supporting the old npapi plugin interface for it
2801 [19:03:41] <uio> Apparently Netflix require(s/d) it?
2802 [19:03:58] <laptop2> Netflix moved over to HTML5 with EME DRM extensions
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2804 [19:04:04] <BCMM> uio: that was waaay back when. nowadays they use that DRM thingy that's part of the HTML spec
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2806 [19:04:45] <BCMM> laptop2 types faster than me
2807 [19:04:54] <uio> Ah.
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2809 [19:05:19] <BCMM> but basically, after html5 video became a thing, DRM was the main reason for sites clinging on flash and silverlight
2810 [19:05:55] <BCMM> now there's an interface for doing just the DRM in the plugin and letting the browser play the actual video in a relatively native way, nobody bothers
2811 [19:06:15] <uio> These people seem to think moonlight might work. replaced-url
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2813 [19:06:22] <uio> But that was three years ago...
2814 [19:06:39] <laptop2> Moonlight is so incomplete that it isn't even funny
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2817 [19:07:07] <laptop2> You can try it if it's not related to your work I guess, but I don't recommend it at all otherwise.
2818 [19:07:37] <laptop2> uio, and your link is to Pipelight
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2820 [19:07:43] <laptop2> Which is Silverlight on Wine
2821 [19:07:44] <laptop2> lol
2822 [19:07:45] <BCMM> uio: i think firefox dropped plugin support entirely, but there are forks like pale moon and waterfox
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2824 [19:07:59] <BCMM> uio: noting that "plugins" are distinct from "extensions", in mozilla speak
2825 [19:08:22] <uio> laptop2, BCMM Yep, no plugin support for FF. I'll just use work's machines. Thanks for the info anyway!
2826 [19:08:51] <laptop2> Yeah that's the best choice for your own sanity overall
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2828 [19:09:02] <uio> laptop2, I think so. Just no worth the time.
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2848 [19:21:08] <Primer> Anyone know how the nvidia driver is packaged from its installer? A new version of the driver was released, but I want to stick with pacakges. The driver in experimental is already older than the released driver, as of today
2849 [19:21:16] <magic_ninja_work> anyway, are you trying to go for optimus offloading support?
2850 [19:21:26] <Primer> Which I already have working, yes
2851 [19:21:41] <Primer> as I've had 435.17 installed from the .run when it was announced
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2853 [19:21:49] <magic_ninja_work> How is it doing?
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2855 [19:21:59] <magic_ninja_work> Also, how about the manual edits needed for the x config?
2856 [19:21:59] <Primer> It's wonderful!
2857 [19:22:21] <Primer> I switched from powering the nvidia chip 24/7 to using Intel and my battery life is very good
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2859 [19:22:37] <magic_ninja_work> I'm just using intel ATM, but it makes my VM's run very poorly
2860 [19:22:38] <Primer> I'm a dev, so I have intellij running all day, 20 terminals, 3 browsers, slack
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2862 [19:22:58] <Primer> I was doing builds of the project, docker, etc... ran on battery for 3 hours
2863 [19:23:02] <magic_ninja_work> I get great battery life, but not as much power. Looking forward to offloading.
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2865 [19:23:30] <magic_ninja_work> I tend to get about 8-10 hours. Reduces to 6 with heavy usage.
2866 [19:23:38] <Primer> What laptop?
2867 [19:23:47] <magic_ninja_work> inpsiron 7559
2868 [19:23:54] <Primer> I have the MSI GS65 with the intel 9900 and nvidia 2070
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2870 [19:24:08] <magic_ninja_work> I don't have that beefy of one. This one does well, though.
2871 [19:24:10] <magic_ninja_work> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Ubuntu "disco" 19.04 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz (800MHz) • Memory: Physical: 15.2 GiB Total (10.9 GiB Free) Swap: 15.7 GiB Total (14.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 497.3 GB / 1.5 TB (984.8 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530 @ Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v5/E3-1500 v5/6th Gen Core Processor Host Bridge/DRAM Registers • Uptime: 3d 14h 25m 9s
2872 [19:24:40] <Primer> I have yet to try running intellij in low power mode, and doing other power management stuff, but I haven't had the chance. I'd really like to undo the .run install and switch back to packages
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2874 [19:25:34] <magic_ninja_work> Well, here is the thing. I believe you may be better off just waiting for a release. The only thing you need to worry about is a kernel change if you are on testing/unstable
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2876 [19:26:03] <Primer> hehe I don't like waiting
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2878 [19:26:09] <magic_ninja_work> I'm sure you can build a package from it, but for your use case I'm not sure the work would be necessary.
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2881 [19:26:49] <magic_ninja_work> debian uses an nvidia-driver metapackage that handles all of that jazz. Perhaps start there.
2882 [19:26:50] <Primer> I could just run the latest .run and it'd be fine. It's just that this machine has been kept pretty pristine with packages so far, and I'd like for it not to drift too much
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2884 [19:28:01] <Primer> I just wasn't planning on learning Debian pacakging today. I've already had to do this for the xorg patches, and I didn't do it correctly, as my pacakges are now in the upgrade list after apt update
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2886 [19:28:04] <magic_ninja_work> I would go that route, just until the driver works its way into the repos. I bet they make an exception for it due to the optimus support. HUGE deal, there.
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2889 [19:28:31] <Primer> Well, debian being debian, I won't count on that
2890 [19:28:48] <Primer> Someone's maintining it though, as the latest beta driver is often in experimental
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2892 [19:29:16] <Primer> Since this driver has a libglvnd change, I was lead to believe that the previous dsc files for the metapackage might not work out of the box for this release
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2895 [19:30:13] <Primer> but I also haven't pursued this. I was mostly looking to see if anyone here had any experience with it or perhaps could have their interest piqued to join me in figuring this out
2896 [19:30:28] <Primer> magic_ninja_work: perhaps you :)
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2898 [19:31:08] <Primer> #nvidia has pretty much gone silent over the years
2899 [19:31:36] <Primer> Considering the driver's gotten a lot more stable and now distros pacakge it. In fact, I hear ubuntu now pacakges it in their installer.
2900 [19:31:40] <Primer> Or will, soon
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2902 [19:32:31] <magic_ninja_work> I have some homework to get done still, otherwise I would be down.
2903 [19:32:42] <magic_ninja_work> Honestly, though, since my laptop uses ubuntu I would probably just use their ppa
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2905 [19:33:00] <magic_ninja_work> this laptop really does not like debian.
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2912 [19:34:53] <Primer> And 435.21 is in their PPA?
2913 [19:35:32] <magic_ninja_work> I'm not sure. I know they have 435.17.
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2916 [19:35:51] <magic_ninja_work> It is a shame too, I much prefer debian.
2917 [19:36:21] <karlpinc> !ppa
2918 [19:36:21] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
2919 [19:37:20] <HeXiLeD> keep having this problem cupsext not present. but it is installed replaced-url
2920 [19:38:47] <jelly> ,v nvidia-driver-dkms
2921 [19:39:02] <jelly> wtbloodyf
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2924 [19:41:56] <Primer> haha love that description of PPA
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2932 [19:46:39] <magic_ninja_work> Primer, lol I'm glad they specified that. I just kinda figured you knew not to do that.
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2934 [19:46:53] <magic_ninja_work> Generally, I just manually install a .deb or install from source if it is obscure.
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2936 [19:47:16] <Primer> There's no diff between doing that and adding the PPA
2937 [19:47:36] <Primer> installing their deb, that is
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2941 [19:48:21] <Primer> but yeah so far I compiled the xorg patches from the dsc file, which I edited myself, but didn't do it correctly, since apt wants to upgrade them now
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2945 [19:49:10] <Primer> I figure I just need to bump the version or add a suffix, but I never got around to learning that
2946 [19:49:22] <greycat> You need to change the version string to indicate that you've updated the package.
2947 [19:50:00] <greycat> e.g. for my xv package build, I gave it version string 3.10a-20+gw1
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2949 [19:50:27] <greycat> Last Debian version for it was 3.10a-20
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2952 [19:50:41] <Primer> So a suffix suffices
2953 [19:50:55] <Primer> sounds sufficient!
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2955 [19:51:06] <greycat> satisfactory
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2963 [19:54:00] <Primer> magic_ninja_work: I'm tempted to grab the dsc file for the metapackage for 431.17 from ubuntu and s/ubuntu/deb/ the files. This is effectively what I did with the xorg-server pacakge when I compiled it
2964 [19:54:13] <Primer> but now I'll add that suffix
2965 [19:54:28] <greycat> !dch
2966 [19:54:28] <dpkg> dch is, like, a tool from the <devscripts> package that is used to manipulate changelog entries in Debian source packages. It helps get the formatting right in the changelog entry and opens the changelog in your chosen editor. dch can set versions, target releases, add template information for closing bugs, etc. It's also known as "debchange".
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2969 [19:55:45] <Primer> greycat: I recall you helped me with compiling xorg-server from the ubuntu package. Everything went wonderfully except for not adding the suffix, Thanks again for that.
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2983 [20:02:15] <Primer> It seems the process is the same as it was with xorg-server, except a bit more involved
2984 [20:02:32] <Primer> replaced-url
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3013 [20:14:56] <magic_ninja_work> alright, I'm outtie for now. Thanks again for the help Primer
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3016 [20:15:07] <Primer> np
3017 [20:15:19] <towo`> Primer, little hint: replaced-url
3018 [20:15:47] <Primer> oh, thanks
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3030 [20:20:09] <beniamin> hello
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3032 [20:20:40] <dvs> oi
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3049 [20:30:11] <Primer> towo`: pardon my ignorance, but this is the first I'm hearing of this distro. You're saying you're using this distro's deb files for 435.17 in Debian buster/testing?
3050 [20:30:38] <towo`> Primer, i use and i'm part of that distro
3051 [20:31:16] <towo`> Primer, but at the moment there is a problem with the 32bit build, i'm uploading a fixed version soon
3052 [20:31:39] <Primer> But you're saying it should work for buster/testing? Distros are not my forté. Plus I was hoping for 435.21
3053 [20:32:15] <Primer> I have steam, which surely has a lot of 32 bit crap on winelib. I was hoping to do some gaming on this long vacation weekend
3054 [20:32:27] <Primer> So if you need someone to test, albeit on debian proper
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3062 [20:34:03] <towo`> Primer, that is 435.21
3063 [20:34:23] <Primer> I went to the PPA page and I didn't see it. Looking again.
3064 [20:35:14] <towo`> Primer, please wait a minute
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3066 [20:35:24] <towo`> i had to fix a 32bit build error
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3068 [20:35:39] <Primer> Will do.
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3074 [20:39:11] <towo`> Primer, nuw it's uploaded
3075 [20:39:17] <towo`> *now
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3080 [20:39:32] <hans__> is there an alternative to `time` in the live installer?
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3083 [20:39:55] <greycat> ... whaaat
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3087 [20:40:24] <hans__> time dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/null bs=10M count=500 iflag=fullblock;
3088 [20:40:32] <hans__> /bin/sh: time: not found
3089 [20:40:35] <jelly> a stop watch?
3090 [20:40:47] <Primer> time is a bash builtin. Just run bash, then time.
3091 [20:40:48] <greycat> just omit the word 'time' and live without the timing information after the command
3092 [20:40:50] <jelly> and echo $'\a' ?
3093 [20:41:02] <greycat> if he's in sh, $'...' may not work either
3094 [20:41:17] <jelly> worse, it's probably busybox
3095 [20:41:22] <jelly> because d-i
3096 [20:41:23] <Primer> yes, it's busybox
3097 [20:41:42] <greycat> date; dd ...; date
3098 [20:41:43] <jelly> echo ctrl-v ctrl-g ;-)
3099 [20:41:45] <Primer> hans__: /bin/bash -c 'time dd...'
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3101 [20:42:05] <greycat> jelly: printf '\a'
3102 [20:42:24] <jelly> I forget printf is supposed to be standard
3103 [20:42:29] <hans__> greycat, i specifically booted it in the live installer because i have 2 idential model harddrives where harddrive #1 delivers about 7MB/s sequential speed, and disk #2 delivers about 90MB/s sequential speed, and i want to know if it's a config issue or a hardware issue (i'm guessing it's hardware), i need to know the time of the commands, but
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3106 [20:42:51] <greycat> Well, *IF* bash is avaiable, just use bash. Problem solved.
3107 [20:42:56] <hans__> it's not
3108 [20:42:59] <greycat> I have no idea what tools are or are not available.
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3110 [20:43:18] <jelly> what kind of live env. does not have a decent shell
3111 [20:43:25] <Primer> agreed
3112 [20:43:30] <hans__> the d-i kind, i guess?
3113 [20:43:44] <jelly> but they said live, not d-i
3114 [20:43:59] <hans__> oh derp
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3119 [20:44:07] <hans__> sorry, i meant d-i, not the live system
3120 [20:44:09] <greycat> He also said "live installer", which I don't even know what that is supposed to be.
3121 [20:44:21] <jelly> the live image has an installer now
3122 [20:44:32] <jelly> it's fancy. But also new.
3123 [20:44:35] <Primer> greycat: the livecd, that one could use to install?
3124 [20:44:43] <greycat> Primer: does that actually *work* now?
3125 [20:44:49] <Primer> it's what I did, but my install started at debootstrap
3126 [20:44:52] <greycat> Historically, it has usually not worked.
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3128 [20:45:08] <Primer> greycat: it's what the zfs root instructions for debian have you use
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3130 [20:45:26] <greycat> Well, out of the two things "Debian live" and "ZFS", I have used precisely zero of them.
3131 [20:45:39] <Primer> worked perfectly. In fact, I used the same instructions to make a live persistent USB with zfs support
3132 [20:45:50] <EdePopede> i just have the same problem from some recently: after some time of extreme heavy load keypresses like Alt-Fn and Alt-Cursor don't only do what they're supposed to, but also switch to a tty as if the system would just show a text terminal instead of X/xfce, but which also reacts on it.just for the case that it is a kernel thing, is there a value i could echo > into some entry in procfs or sysfs?
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3134 [20:47:09] <Primer> Can't understand that
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3138 [20:48:58] <humpled> captain confusion strikes again
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3140 [20:49:25] <Primer> towo`: So yeah, I can't say that I'm a pro at debian packages and repos. I'm not clear about what I should do. Just add the URL to a new sources.list.d, apt update...what about keys? These aren't signed?
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3142 [20:49:35] <EdePopede> so. what does alt-f2 do?
3143 [20:49:49] <Primer> take you to a non X terminal, normally
3144 [20:50:09] <Primer> But if you're in X, dunno. That surely varies.
3145 [20:50:17] <Primer> For me here it does nothing
3146 [20:50:58] <greycat> If you're in the Linux console, Alt-F2 does the same as Ctrl-Alt-F2, which is: switch to tty2.
3147 [20:51:05] <EdePopede> right. usually it opens the programm starter (the dialog with a command line and maybe more)
3148 [20:51:13] <greycat> If you're not, it does whatever your window manager or application decides to do.
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3150 [20:51:22] <Primer> yeah, hence the confusion
3151 [20:51:41] <greycat> EdePopede: I guess that's some sort of desktop environment thing
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3153 [20:51:42] <Primer> So this program starter...that's only for you
3154 [20:51:55] <EdePopede> and it should NOT bring me away from X, but only do something where it was assigned to for the wm.
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3156 [20:52:14] <Primer> Something is bound to it
3157 [20:52:14] <EdePopede> greycat: yep
3158 [20:52:19] <Primer> in X
3159 [20:52:26] <Primer> Otherwise it'd do the same as for me: nothing
3160 [20:52:38] <EdePopede> like alt-f3 often is some window function and alt-f4 to close the window/progran
3161 [20:52:54] <greycat> These things are not universal.
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3163 [20:53:02] <Primer> EdePopede: Plasma uses alt-f3 as the default for the context of the window
3164 [20:53:14] <EdePopede> now the problem is, they all do what they're supposed to do but then switch the tty
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3166 [20:53:16] <Primer> it's handled by Plasma, as I would expect, say, openbox to do the same thing
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3168 [20:54:01] <Primer> If you say so, but that is likely only happening for you
3169 [20:54:04] <EdePopede> and so do alt-left and alt-right. right here in hexchat it means the channel is moved to another position in the list and then the system switches to tty6 or tty1.
3170 [20:54:10] <greycat> If I open a terminal (urxvt) here and focus it and press Alt-F2, Alt-F3, and Alt-F4, the result is precisely nothing visible. However, it did something in the shell, because the next character I type isn't typing, but the char after that is.
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3173 [20:54:48] <EdePopede> i guess you didn't assign them and they aren't predefined by your wm/de.
3174 [20:55:02] <Primer> here, alt-left and alt-right go "back" and "forward", however the current app interprets that
3175 [20:55:04] <greycat> I could map each of those key sequences to bytes sent to the terminal and try to guess what those byte sequences did to my shell but I don't care enough to spend that time.
3176 [20:55:23] <Primer> EdePopede: I'm on Plasma. I don't think it gets more pre-defined than that?
3177 [20:55:59] <Primer> EdePopede: I use screen a lot. I found that Plasma was intercepting control-page up/down, and not passing it to screen
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3179 [20:56:04] <EdePopede> Primer: you're right. used KDE2/3 before i switched to xfce and its possibilities were endless
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3182 [20:56:14] <Primer> I had to disable that in Plasma before that would work again, as I was also using Konsole
3183 [20:56:32] <EdePopede> really? would be a problem for firefox, i use it a lot to switch tabs
3184 [20:56:54] <EdePopede> and in mc in xterm to quickly change to the parent directory
3185 [20:56:55] <Primer> So, these key binds you keep referring to, are first: intercepted by the WM/DM if configured to do so, and may/may not pass that down to the app
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3189 [20:57:13] <Primer> EdePopede: but then firefox doesn't run under konsole, does it?
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3191 [20:57:29] <greycat> firefox is not a terminal-based program
3192 [20:57:40] <Primer> The keybind was for switching tabs IN konsole, by default
3193 [20:57:54] <Primer> I didn't not desire that. I desired the continued use of the keybind in screen
3194 [20:57:55] <EdePopede> but when does the part of the system get it which is responsible for doing a chvt?
3195 [20:57:58] <greycat> you could launch it *from* a terminal, in which case it could conceivably respond to keyboard-generated signals (e.g. Ctrl-C), or it might not
3196 [20:58:03] <Primer> Hence me disabling it, as it was also not passing it through
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3198 [20:58:27] <EdePopede> Primer: if it is plasma that interferes with your screen it also would with other programs, right?
3199 [20:58:28] <Primer> oops, double negative :)
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3205 [20:59:01] <Primer> EdePopede: In this case, it was very specific to how Plasma was also handling konsole, an app it's integrated with
3206 [20:59:20] <Primer> Disabling control page up/down had no effect on firefox
3207 [20:59:25] <EdePopede> greycat: heh, actually i'm doing it as with some other programs too. had some problems many years back and learned to keep an eye on its live output. love screen for keeping my desktoo clean :)
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3210 [20:59:39] <Primer> As it's up to firefox to handle this, and if Plasma had no context to interfere, it would not
3211 [20:59:47] <Primer> and pass it on down
3212 [20:59:50] <Primer> which it does
3213 [21:00:08] <Primer> EdePopede: cat, hit enter
3214 [21:00:10] <EdePopede> but still, why does it switch consoles when i press alt-Fn or alt-Cursor in X/xfce?
3215 [21:00:12] <Primer> type control page up
3216 [21:00:15] <Primer> hit control c
3217 [21:00:55] <EdePopede> Primer: atm i'm busy getting my system not nagging me, last time i restarted X, but i'd prefer a less invasive method
3218 [21:01:12] <EdePopede> everything works fine now again but that keyboard thing
3219 [21:01:14] <Primer> grep bindkey .screenrc: bindkey ^[[5;5~ prev
3220 [21:01:15] <greycat> EdePopede: more info required. Debian version, window manager or Desktop Environment being used, any custom configs you did, exact keys pressed.
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3222 [21:01:21] <Primer> That is how I derived that
3223 [21:01:41] <EdePopede> greycat: plain xfce on plain stretch
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3225 [21:01:49] <Primer> EdePopede: something in xfce is doing that for you
3226 [21:01:53] *** Parts: vvvelich1ov (~vasko@replaced-ip ) ()
3227 [21:01:58] <EdePopede> happened for the 2nd time ever, last time it was just days ago
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3229 [21:02:27] <Primer> And X is still there?
3230 [21:02:28] <EdePopede> Primer: so the kernel passes the key event to X/xfce without looking at it?
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3233 [21:02:44] <Primer> libinput
3234 [21:02:49] <EdePopede> nothing happened, just this strange behaviour
3235 [21:03:10] <Primer> EdePopede: once it happened, were you able to control-alt-f1 back to the running X?
3236 [21:03:15] <Primer> I'm suggesting X crashed
3237 [21:03:32] <greycat> replaced-url
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3239 [21:03:51] <EdePopede> last time i tried to map the already mapped alt-left to desktop switching, but i was on tty6 the moment i pressed the key combo in the dialog
3240 [21:03:55] <Primer> You said it was under heavy load. Also, X opens the keyboard in raw mode.
3241 [21:04:04] <Primer> Which make things like X crashing...problematic
3242 [21:04:05] <greycat> the image for "Step 4" on that page shows <Alt>F2 being bound to something like "xfce4-appfinder --collapsed"
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3244 [21:04:17] <Primer> When it doesn't restore the keyboard to non raw mode upon doing so
3245 [21:04:25] <greycat> I have no idea whether that's something they added in this document, or some default setting.
3246 [21:04:31] <EdePopede> greycat: they do do (is that even correct) what they're supposed to, but then ADDITIONALLY switch tty
3247 [21:04:39] <Primer> ok, wait, so you just said desktop switching
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3249 [21:05:08] <towo`> Primer, sure our packages are signed
3250 [21:05:10] <Primer> Please tell us exactly what you mean. Are you talking about doing what control-alt-fX does from X? As in, it goes out of X?
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3252 [21:05:39] <Primer> towo`: so, add a sources.list.d/siduction.list, apt update, apt install nvidia-driver?
3253 [21:05:47] <hans__> odd, when debian is running normally, `dd if=/dev/sdb bs=10M iflag=fullbock of=/dev/null` manages about 95MB/s - but d-i doing the exact same thing manages ~120 MB/s :O - in both cases, sdb is not mounted and the io cache is flushed with `echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches` prior to dd'ing
3254 [21:05:52] <Primer> Surely some signing thing will complain. I can find no instructions
3255 [21:06:08] <Primer> hans__: have you considered fs cache?
3256 [21:06:16] <Primer> isn't there a dd ODIRECT option?
3257 [21:06:24] <Primer> You should be using it if it's avaialable
3258 [21:06:33] <hans__> Primer, no, but is d-i running without a fs cache? or perhaps the d-i fs cache is much faster (much simpler?) for some reason? idk
3259 [21:06:51] <Primer> and d-i is...sorry for not knowing.
3260 [21:07:05] <hans__> debian installer
3261 [21:07:20] <Primer> so a live cd that you boot into X and run a term in?
3262 [21:07:22] *** Joins: datdus (~datdus@replaced-ip )
3263 [21:07:26] <hans__> yeah basically
3264 [21:07:32] *** Quits: Soo_Slow (Soo_Slow@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3265 [21:07:42] <Primer> just making sure it's the same thing I used to do zfs root. Sounds like it.
3266 [21:08:06] <Primer> So, dd, afaik even on devices, still uses memory for fs caching, unless the program uses ODIRECT?
3267 [21:08:13] *** Joins: AlmarShenwan_ (~quassel@replaced-ip )
3268 [21:08:13] <Primer> I may be dated on this info.
3269 [21:08:37] <Primer> But if your dd results are varying, I'd say that no test without 2 runs back to back are valid
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3271 [21:08:41] *** Joins: Hitmanu (~manuel@replaced-ip )
3272 [21:08:42] <hans__> dd can request direct, but i didn't instruct dd to do that - the d-i uses busybox dd and normal debian uses GNU dd tho
3273 [21:08:56] <Primer> same setup, run again, back to back, without rebooting
3274 [21:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1538
3275 [21:09:04] <Primer> only then change the hardware, repeat
3276 [21:09:32] <Primer> so yeah, I'd say that unless you have proper shells and dd...you're SOL
3277 [21:09:33] <EdePopede> <Primer> EdePopede: once it happened, were you able to control-alt-f1 back to the running X? <-- everything works as it should, only that *under X* the corresponding key combination (alt+key) behave as if i'd press them in a text terminal *after* doing the job they were hired to do. so in the case of alt-left in hexchat: 1) move tab to new position 2) switch to previous tty.
3278 [21:09:58] *** Quits: AlmarShenwan (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3279 [21:10:01] <humpled> curious
3280 [21:10:13] <EdePopede> same for alt+function key. does what it is supposed to do and then throws me to the corresponding tty.
3281 [21:10:28] <Primer> EdePopede: doesn't answer the question. Were you able to return to the running X?
3282 [21:10:29] *** Joins: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip )
3283 [21:10:35] <Primer> Because if not, it's very likely X crashed
3284 [21:10:37] <EdePopede> i had heavy loads before, but never seen this until some days ago
3285 [21:10:54] *** Quits: martin-_-_ (~default@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3286 [21:10:58] <EdePopede> hexchat > gtk > x. so yes, i am in X
3287 [21:11:17] *** Quits: n00buser__ (~n00buser@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3288 [21:11:19] <EdePopede> Primer: i said it, EVERYTHING is normal. only not *this one thing*
3289 [21:11:23] <greycat> And you were able to go back *TO* X after being switched to a console?
3290 [21:11:37] <EdePopede> keyboard handling under X is somehow borked
3291 [21:11:42] <Primer> and upon hitting alt-f2, you dropped out of X and into console, yes? And from here, control alt f1 took you back to X?
3292 [21:11:47] <Primer> sigh
3293 [21:11:52] <humpled> :þ
3294 [21:12:13] <Primer> I'm asking very specific questions for a reason. Many things could have happened here, and I feel your interpretation of the events are in error.
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3297 [21:12:32] <EdePopede> no, alt-F7. since tty1 has the boot messages and X is started on tt7 as usual.
3298 [21:12:40] <Primer> I think your X crashed. And that you rebooted or re-logged in
3299 [21:12:52] <greycat> Starting X on tty7 isn't exactly "usual" on current releases.
3300 [21:13:02] <Primer> ok, so now that we've clarified that. I've _never_ seen alt-f2 drop out of X, ever, so...it's likely you were also hitting control
3301 [21:13:09] <greycat> Primer: looks like he's running X on tty7 and was able to go back to X.
3302 [21:13:13] <Primer> and did control alt f1
3303 [21:13:32] <Primer> greycat: sorry for being pedantic. But the devil's in the details
3304 [21:13:32] <EdePopede> well, then you know better than i do sitting in front of the monitor displaying my system and the mouse and keyboard i use to handle it
3305 [21:13:48] <towo`> Primer, better come to #siduction on oftc network, since siduction is not a topic in debian
3306 [21:13:48] <Primer> EdePopede: do tell me what control alt f1 does :)
3307 [21:14:26] <EdePopede> because i just told you a couple of times that EVERYTHING is normal, only keyboard handling in X is strange, and only the "switch tty" part
3308 [21:14:28] <Primer> towo`: will do. Or you could just point me to the page with the repo install instructions :)
3309 [21:14:47] <Primer> EdePopede: and by switch tty, you mean specifically, control alt fX, yes?
3310 [21:14:49] <EdePopede> Primer: what it is supposed to do, as i said multiple times already
3311 [21:14:53] <greycat> EdePopede: we don't know what you consider normal. We need exact details.
3312 [21:15:08] <greycat> EdePopede: we don't know what you think it is "supposed to do".
3313 [21:15:11] <EdePopede> Primer: c-a-Fn is the method to get out of X to the text terminal, yes
3314 [21:15:25] <Primer> so...I'm suggesting you did THAT
3315 [21:15:33] <Primer> when you thought you did alt-fX
3316 [21:15:37] <Primer> that's all
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3318 [21:15:40] <EdePopede> oh sure
3319 [21:15:55] <EdePopede> you got a magic ball and i don't know what i press
3320 [21:16:05] <EdePopede> do you even realize how ARROGANT this is?
3321 [21:16:14] <Primer> You also realize keys get stuck?
3322 [21:16:45] <Primer> I had that happen just yesterday. I was hitting a key combo, and it turned out I was doing control key combo, not key combo.
3323 [21:16:48] <greycat> EdePopede: This is tech support in #debian. We help people of ALL skill levels. You would not BELIEVE some of the mistakes people make.
3324 [21:17:01] <Primer> You also have to know how ARROGANT it sounds to presume that your alt-fX does what my alt-fX does
3325 [21:17:08] *** Joins: m1dnight1 (~m1dnight@replaced-ip )
3326 [21:17:12] <Primer> We established at the start it does not, yet you kept on with it
3327 [21:17:23] <Habbie> !frankendebia
3328 [21:17:26] <Habbie> !frankendebian
3329 [21:17:26] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
3330 [21:17:28] <Primer> despite us telling you that behavior differs from machine to machine
3331 [21:17:36] <Primer> and from WM to WM
3332 [21:17:52] *** Quits: Messenger_bird (~banana@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3333 [21:17:52] <Primer> No, his is fine
3334 [21:17:56] <greycat> and from debian release to debian release, and from ...
3335 [21:17:58] *** Quits: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3336 [21:18:12] <EdePopede> greycat: you don't say. i'm sitting here for MONTH again and did enough support myself. so yes, some people can't even download an install.exe and click it on the desktop to install the program on window.
3337 [21:18:16] *** Joins: Messenger_bird (~banana@replaced-ip )
3338 [21:18:23] <Primer> This is just a difference between one WM and another, after a user has tweaked their settings. Perfectly normal usage.
3339 [21:18:31] <EdePopede> but not from vanilla debian installation to vanilla debian installation
3340 [21:18:32] <Primer> I don't think he's done anything out of the ordinary.
3341 [21:19:06] <greycat> EdePopede: There is no such thing as a "vanilla Debian installation". There are several different means of installing, and choices of what to install.
3342 [21:19:11] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip )
3343 [21:19:36] <Primer> EdePopede: Your Xfce box != my Plasma box. So, when you presume alt-f2 did the same thing on mine...you presumed
3344 [21:19:46] <Primer> And we all know what happens when one assumes
3345 [21:20:12] <Primer> EdePopede: yet, both of us are on debian, potentially with zero PPAs or extra repos. And on buster even.
3346 [21:20:21] *** Joins: amadann (~amadann@replaced-ip )
3347 [21:20:23] <EdePopede> i said MULTIPLE times what's going on from different perspectives and the whole reaction was "you don't know what you type, you don't know what you see. we know better." and obviously never reading what i write, so i really can stop answering since i'm literally talking to walls.
3348 [21:20:26] <greycat> In any case, if the behavior you're seeing from Alt-F2 is *intermittently* different, sometimes doing whatever-the-hell-xfce-does in the key binding menu, and sometimes doing what Ctrl-Alt-F2 does, then I support Primer's hypothesis that you had the Ctrl key stuck, or believed to be stuck by X.
3349 [21:20:27] <Akuw> i am using rsync to backup 300GB but "sending incremental file list" takes longer
3350 [21:20:53] <Primer> EdePopede: no, the reaction was "you have not provided enough specific information to make a valid determination"
3351 [21:21:08] <Primer> and that your presumtions to not a valid determination make
3352 [21:21:10] <EdePopede> and how can i type all the time with ctrl key stuck?
3353 [21:21:16] <Primer> easily
3354 [21:21:23] <EdePopede> w
3355 [21:21:25] <EdePopede> see?
3356 [21:21:36] <EdePopede> C-w would close the tab and make me /part the channel
3357 [21:21:41] <Primer> but all it takes is one time, yet you're unwilling to consider you accidentally typed this and you dropped to the console.
3358 [21:21:45] <EdePopede> bit of logic please
3359 [21:21:46] <greycat> ... you know what, screw this. He goes back on /ignore now.
3360 [21:21:50] <Primer> That's just being hyperbolic
3361 [21:21:57] <Primer> That proves nothing
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3363 [21:22:32] *** Joins: peterS (~peter@replaced-ip )
3364 [21:22:44] <Primer> greycat: I take it there's a history here? Sorry if I'm now to be the new person you may put on ignore
3365 [21:23:01] <Primer> But I don't ignore people. I learn too much from them.
3366 [21:23:02] <EdePopede> yeah, greycat. the usual reaction on your side. having a bad day, trolling users instead of answering or simyply DOING NOTHING if you have no answer, and then not able to handle the answer you deserve
3367 [21:23:16] <Primer> EdePopede: you're not posing good questions
3368 [21:23:35] <Primer> And you're not willing to accept that your assumptions are wrong
3369 [21:23:40] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3370 [21:23:41] <EdePopede> just because you hae a website dedicated to bash this doesn't mean you can do every shit you'd like with people
3371 [21:23:46] <Akuw> i am using rsync from Debian PC --- to ---> Server
3372 [21:23:52] <EdePopede> learn to socialize
3373 [21:23:57] <Primer> no one bashed anyone
3374 [21:24:05] <Primer> yes, you should do that
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3376 [21:24:49] <Primer> You started by making some absurd claim about how alt-f1 dropped you to the console from X
3377 [21:25:26] *** Quits: chele (~chele@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3378 [21:25:32] <EdePopede> LOL
3379 [21:25:37] *** Joins: jeromy (~rriocard@replaced-ip )
3380 [21:25:39] <EdePopede> "absurd claim"
3381 [21:25:42] <EdePopede> and again
3382 [21:25:48] <greycat> 14:45 EdePopede> i just have the same problem from some recently: after some time of extreme heavy load keypresses like Alt-Fn and Alt-Cursor don't only do what they're supposed to, but also switch to a tty
3383 [21:25:58] *** Quits: jeromy (~rriocard@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
3384 [21:26:06] <EdePopede> you assume to KNOW BETTER what **I** press and what happens on *my* system when i do
3385 [21:26:07] <Primer> absurd claim ^^^^
3386 [21:26:24] <Primer> EdePopede: if I hit control alt f1 on my system, nothing happens
3387 [21:26:29] <EdePopede> there can't be a more absurd claim than what you just did *again*
3388 [21:26:30] <Primer> I can do it all day
3389 [21:26:41] <greycat> Ignoring the part up to the colon, it sounds like an *intermittent* problem.
3390 [21:26:42] <Primer> same for 2 though 12
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3392 [21:27:00] *** Quits: AlmarShenwan_ (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3393 [21:27:08] <greycat> I.e. "it only happens sometimes, and I also observed the load to be heavy at those times".
3394 [21:27:28] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Je m'en vais ...)
3395 [21:27:32] *** Quits: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3396 [21:27:42] <greycat> (whatever "load
3397 [21:27:47] <greycat> (whatever "load" and "heavy" mean)
3398 [21:27:56] <Primer> and to that I asked, "you were able to return TO THAT RUNNING X after that happened....RIGHT?" again, a specific question, with a vague answer
3399 [21:28:07] *** Joins: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip )
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3401 [21:28:36] <Primer> the responses I read were "yeah, I can go back" which to me, don't read as "yes, I was able to return to the running X" but could be interpreted as "yes, I rebooted and all was fine"
3402 [21:28:37] <EdePopede> you don't want the answer, you just want to put your boot on someone's neck just to feel the moment of power
3403 [21:28:44] <Primer> or "yes, I was able to log back into X"
3404 [21:28:51] <Primer> implying X FUCKING CRASHED!
3405 [21:28:51] <EdePopede> seen this a few times before, not only on this network
3406 [21:28:59] <greycat> I never even saw "yeah, I can go back". let me read through the /lastlog again...
3407 [21:29:04] <EdePopede> mostly by longtime users
3408 [21:29:05] <Primer> But...can you recognize X crashing?
3409 [21:29:13] *** Joins: bencarrol (~farlee@replaced-ip )
3410 [21:29:22] <Primer> Most people describe it as a "boot loop"
3411 [21:29:26] *** Quits: czart (~czart@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3412 [21:29:28] <EdePopede> Primer: you mean the X crash that happened in your phantasy?
3413 [21:29:35] <Primer> which has NOTHING to do with booting, and everything to do with X not starting
3414 [21:29:45] <EdePopede> that's just how fake news come to life
3415 [21:29:53] *** Quits: iulian (~iulian@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3416 [21:29:54] *** Quits: bencarrol (~farlee@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
3417 [21:30:18] <Primer> EdePopede: Can you recognize X crashing?
3418 [21:31:06] <EdePopede> Primer: you know that i don't even know what X is or a crash, i'm just a user, you know. we don't know ANYTHING, not even how to press a power button
3419 [21:31:12] *** Joins: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip )
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3421 [21:31:21] <EdePopede> so i really can't answer your question since i have no idea what you're talking aboiut
3422 [21:31:40] <greycat> (I'm also still wondering how he's got X on tty7 on "plain stretch". That is absolutely not the normal tty for it.)
3423 [21:31:48] <Primer> It's a valid question. If you use Debian, and boot into a "graphical environment", you're using X. If you didn't know that, now you do.
3424 [21:32:03] *** Quits: jlbuckner (jlbuckner@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3425 [21:32:13] <humpled> my X/xfce stretch is on tty7 tbh
3426 [21:32:21] <Primer> So, when you come here, and you don't even know that, how can we take any of your claims seriously, especially when they start off sounding absurd, and full of presumption?
3427 [21:32:28] <greycat> humpled: interesting.
3428 [21:32:30] <Primer> No, that's Xorg
3429 [21:32:34] <Primer> that's not Xfce
3430 [21:32:43] <Primer> Xorg in turn, ran xfce
3431 [21:32:47] <Primer> DId you know that?
3432 [21:32:49] <Primer> Now you do
3433 [21:33:03] <Primer> hehe and now I'm confusing people
3434 [21:33:07] <greycat> To be fair, xfce is not spawned by Xorg.
3435 [21:33:16] *** Joins: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip )
3436 [21:33:16] <Primer> xinit, or sddm
3437 [21:33:20] <Primer> we all know this
3438 [21:33:28] <Primer> but...does EdePopede?
3439 [21:33:36] *** Quits: Tom-_ (tomg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3440 [21:33:36] <EdePopede> Primer: just to please you. i got the impression that you can't live with the fact that some users may be able to distinguish between ctrl and alt.
3441 [21:33:54] *** Joins: clywd (~byran@replaced-ip )
3442 [21:33:57] <greycat> Primer: he knows everything, and we're all ignorant and stupid for having to ask him questions. Duh.
3443 [21:34:06] *** Quits: clywd (~byran@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
3444 [21:34:12] *** Quits: Messenger_bird (~banana@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3445 [21:34:18] <Primer> EdePopede: All of my assertions have been perfectly valid given the "evidence" you have presented. gretcat, if I may, seems to agree with me
3446 [21:34:25] <EdePopede> i'll simply wait for someone who'd be willing to answer the actual question without bullshitting around
3447 [21:34:49] * diogenes_ grabs some pop-corn
3448 [21:34:51] <EdePopede> this attitude was the reason why i left #bash, nothing else
3449 [21:34:58] <greycat> I agree with the current best-guess diagnosis of an intermittently seen-as-stuck Ctrl key, possibly due to this "heavy load".
3450 [21:34:59] <Primer> EdePopede: you are unwilling to concede that your presumptions are not correct
3451 [21:35:02] *** Joins: Messenger_bird (~banana@replaced-ip )
3452 [21:35:05] <greycat> Because we've got no other theory yet.
3453 [21:35:16] <Primer> EdePopede: it's because they likely were telling you the same thing
3454 [21:35:30] <Primer> The problem is not bash, as the problem here is not debian. It's PEBKAC
3455 [21:35:35] <EdePopede> Primer: you've been there? you remember it?
3456 [21:35:51] <Primer> nope, never been there
3457 [21:35:51] <EdePopede> Primer: guess whose chair. tip: not mine.
3458 [21:35:59] <greycat> It's definitely not bash. It could be a bug in some other part of Debian. Or defective hardware. Or PEBKAC.
3459 [21:36:03] <EdePopede> so much to making assumptions
3460 [21:36:09] <EdePopede> OMG
3461 [21:36:10] <Primer> you lost me with the chair thing
3462 [21:36:15] <EdePopede> "bash" != "#bash"
3463 [21:36:17] *** Joins: ferrel (~cad@replaced-ip )
3464 [21:36:19] <EdePopede> you're new to irc?
3465 [21:36:24] <EdePopede> good
3466 [21:36:24] *** Quits: m1dnight1 (~m1dnight@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3467 [21:36:30] <Primer> I've been on IRC since 1995
3468 [21:36:36] *** Joins: luneff (~yury@replaced-ip )
3469 [21:36:53] <Primer> I've been using Linux and X since then too
3470 [21:37:01] <Primer> So...care to discuss who may know more?
3471 [21:37:04] <EdePopede> as i said, i prefer to wait for someone who's actually willing to find an answer to a simple question, even if the answer doesn't seem too be that trivial.
3472 [21:37:25] <Primer> please, do re-iterate said simple question. I'll entertain it as if I don't you.
3473 [21:37:32] <EdePopede> Primer: you may know about computers and linux, but you definitely don't know about people
3474 [21:37:46] *** Quits: ferrel (~cad@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
3475 [21:38:00] <EdePopede> surely i won't entertain you, you may get netflix for this
3476 [21:38:06] <Primer> More here have said this of you than of me so far, but do go on
3477 [21:38:25] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
3478 [21:38:36] <Primer> diogenes_ seems entertained
3479 [21:38:43] *** Joins: m1dnight1 (~m1dnight@replaced-ip )
3480 [21:38:51] <Primer> So, what's this simple issue?
3481 [21:40:24] <EdePopede> you troll me one time, shame on you. you troll me two times, shame on me.
3482 [21:40:34] <EdePopede> so no, you won't get the chance.
3483 [21:40:37] *** Quits: Hitmanu (~manuel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3484 [21:40:54] <Primer> Others are waiting to entertain your questions, so you have to ask it at some point
3485 [21:41:03] <Primer> It's either that or you leave and I win
3486 [21:41:18] <Primer> So yeah, I troll
3487 [21:42:08] * Primer drops out of X to install the latest nvidia drive
3488 [21:42:10] <Primer> r
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3502 [21:51:24] <bolt> You say potato, I say Debian...
3503 [21:51:37] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip )
3504 [21:51:39] <greycat> haven't seen a potato system in a long time
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3507 [21:52:35] <bolt> My Toshiba Libretto runs it :)
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3543 [22:13:39] <warsoul> what irc client you guys suggest?
3544 [22:13:57] <greycat> it's a very personal decision
3545 [22:14:07] <somiaj> not mirc
3546 [22:14:24] <warsoul> lol
3547 [22:14:26] <EdePopede> text: irssi, gui: hexchat. kvirc seems to be popular even for windows users.
3548 [22:14:40] <butteredpopcorn_> I like weechat for text
3549 [22:14:47] <warsoul> what you guys use?
3550 [22:14:55] <annadane> hexchat
3551 [22:15:01] <butteredpopcorn_> hexchat for gui
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3553 [22:15:10] <EdePopede> you could look at a few, depends on what interface you prefer and how fit you are using different interface concepts
3554 [22:15:11] <somiaj> warsoul: any in the debian repos should be fine, use the one you like the best
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3556 [22:15:26] <greycat> hexchat, irssi and weechat are very common, I believe. You can also check the popularity-contest results.
3557 [22:15:41] <warsoul> i use hexchat
3558 [22:15:46] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip )
3559 [22:16:15] <warsoul> long time ago i used bitchx back in the days lol
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3563 [22:17:09] <greycat> "not mirc, and not bitchx"
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3569 [22:19:54] <karlpinc> warsoul: If you use emacs you could consider erc mode. It's not awesome, but fine.
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3572 [22:21:53] <warsoul> karlpinc, what is emacs?
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3574 [22:22:50] <greycat> If you don't use it, feel free to ignore that suggestion.
3575 [22:22:58] <warsoul> lol
3576 [22:22:59] <warsoul> ok
3577 [22:23:00] <annadane> it's this thing you can look up on google what it is...
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3580 [22:23:46] <greycat> It's kind of a lifestyle.
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3585 [22:26:13] <warsoul> where are you from guys?
3586 [22:26:26] <greycat> earth
3587 [22:26:35] <somiaj> warsoul: this is more a support channel, so lets try to keep questions about debian
3588 [22:26:44] <warsoul> ok sorry
3589 [22:26:50] <somiaj> also it is debian support, wanting support for other oses/software is more appropraite elsewhere.
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3591 [22:27:49] <annadane> a more serious answer is that emacs is a "text editor" but really a swiss army knife of do-everything and you can extend it to do many things... but really, next time look up on the internet what something is before asking
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3593 [22:29:07] <greycat> !emacs
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3595 [22:29:07] <dpkg> Emacs is the extensible macro editor that is already quite extensively extended. A popular editor choice with major and minor modes for almost every conceivable language and task. High priests of emacs have even been known to use emacs as their shell, and sometimes have whole systems with init=/usr/bin/emacs. replaced-url
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3597 [22:29:38] <greycat> see also replaced-url
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3600 [22:31:58] <jlbuckner> warsoul, There is #debian-offtopic for non-support chat.
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3603 [22:32:47] <warsoul> jlbuckner, thanks.
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3609 [22:35:11] <annadane> except don't look up on the internet debian technical advice because that will probably break your system
3610 [22:35:27] <warsoul> why?
3611 [22:35:41] <annadane> a) advice gets outdated over time b) there's a lot of bad debian advice
3612 [22:35:49] <annadane> "want this program? just add this ubuntu PPA"
3613 [22:36:11] <warsoul> ok
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3615 [22:36:14] <warsoul> got it
3616 [22:36:31] <annadane> debian official's documentation on its site is, obviously, fine
3617 [22:36:36] <annadane> debian's official*
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3619 [22:38:37] <greycat> The man pages and the per-package documentation in /usr/share/doc/ are the most reliable. The official release notes and so forth on replaced-url
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3623 [22:40:12] <greycat> Documentation from other projects (Linux, Arch Linux, Freedesktop.org, even Ubuntu on occasion) can be helpful, but you must be able to determine which parts don't apply.
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3625 [22:41:00] <somiaj> yea, there is a lot of good info out there, but one does need to learn what to actually apply
3626 [22:41:23] <somiaj> unforuntally even the debian wiki is subect to time-rot, and pages there have to sometimes be intruptied by someone who knows the changes since it was written.
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3630 [22:44:46] <annadane> a part of me dies on the inside whenever /use/share/doc contains only "changelog" and "copyright" but i suppose that's what man pages are for
3631 [22:44:49] <annadane> or info pages
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3635 [22:48:51] <annadane> debian is a very robust system that won't tend to rot over time but if you start mucking around in non standard ways like some guides mistakenly recommend you do, it can lose its "elasticity" as something that "just works"
3636 [22:49:15] <annadane> thankfully, the defaults are sane, and if you have questions IRC is generally pretty reliable
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3641 [22:50:44] <sunzero> how can i create a file to disable apt autoremove and where
3642 [22:51:27] <greycat> create a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ which conforms to the run-parts restrictions (no dots) with the following content: APT::NeverAutoRemove ".";
3643 [22:51:31] *** Parts: raffa (~androirc@replaced-ip ) ()
3644 [22:51:48] <greycat> I called mine 99local but the name is not important as long as run-parts will accept it.
3645 [22:52:00] <sunzero> aham
3646 [22:52:05] <sunzero> will accept it
3647 [22:52:06] <sunzero> ok
3648 [22:52:09] <sunzero> thanks
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3650 [22:52:51] <greycat> The "." is a regex that matches any single character, which means it matches every package. So every package gets marked as "NeverAutoRemove".
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3654 [22:54:16] <sunzero> ok
3655 [22:54:22] <sunzero> i understand
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3666 [23:04:04] <cybercrypto> !backports
3667 [23:04:04] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
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3677 [23:14:33] <sunzero> how can i use two local characters in locale.gen /etc
3678 [23:14:45] <sunzero> en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 and another language or i cant
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3680 [23:14:57] <sunzero> before to run localegen
3681 [23:15:20] <hop> sunzero: what do you mean "use"?
3682 [23:15:36] <sunzero> hop i am with en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8
3683 [23:15:43] <hop> just uncomment any you want generated
3684 [23:15:52] <sunzero> hop: i want to use and bg_BG CP1251
3685 [23:16:26] <sunzero> hop: you mean both?
3686 [23:16:27] <hop> don't use anything but utf8 would be my advice
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3688 [23:16:37] <hop> what do you need it for?
3689 [23:16:38] <sunzero> mh
3690 [23:17:07] <sunzero> for lynx to shows correctly bg_BG becouse if its en_US.UTF-8 utf8 not shows bg-BG
3691 [23:17:47] <hop> sounds like a broken web page
3692 [23:18:09] <sunzero> i will check but i understand you
3693 [23:18:48] <hop> i might be wrong, but i would imagine lynx would convert character sets
3694 [23:18:55] <hop> independent of your current locale
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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