10[00:06:43] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
11[00:07:59] *** rwp_ is now known as rwp
12[00:10:36] <nvz> the netinst contains a base system, the mini does not.. it requires net to do anything, the netinst however can install a working debian system without network
50[00:24:48] <metbsd> i thought squid is only for reversed proxy
51[00:24:48] <Bushmills> polipo maybe, that's rather lightweight
52[00:26:34] <Bushmills> just any proxy which fetches data on behalf of a user, then delivers it, can be used as proxy or as reverse proxy. there's no difference in what the proxy does. It's a difference of where it fetches the data.
54[00:27:18] <Bushmills> reverse proxy are mostly "provide access to local data to world without disclosing where it came from"
55[00:28:09] <Bushmills> proxies are more like "provide access to world data without disclosing (or not) who asked for that data" but the latter depends on config.
77[00:32:23] <metbsd> what's best software to do world to world
78[00:32:31] <Bushmills> what's the nicest colour?
79[00:32:43] <metbsd> i mean the most popular one
80[00:32:50] <Bushmills> !popcon
81[00:32:50] <dpkg> from memory, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at replaced-url
214[02:16:23] <Bushmills> you seem to have a mix of versions which don't belong to stretch
215[02:16:45] <fructose> Bushmills: Aren't Ubuntu packages all Debian packages? I'd be interested to know why it's bound to cause problems.
216[02:17:35] <m0rd3cai> i use debian mirror repos and just nextcloud client is received from ppa repo. The reading i did on it stated ppa would work fine on debian
217[02:17:51] <m0rd3cai> uname -a is Linux unknown 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u5 (2019-08-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux
218[02:17:59] <Bushmills> fructose: while it's the same package format, the packages differ - and the dependencies too. ubuntu may require different versions than debian
219[02:18:19] <Bushmills> result can be such a version mix as in this case
220[02:18:21] <m0rd3cai> should i try to disable nextcloud repo and re-update?
228[02:20:57] <m0rd3cai> well wine64 will now install but win32 wont. is 32 needed that much for wine64?
229[02:21:36] <catfuneral> i have a line `userdel foo` in the postrm step of a package. when i remove the package, the userdel appears to silently not work. if i run the postrm script manually, the userdel works fine. what am i doing wrong ?
230[02:21:38] <Bushmills> fructose: debian has no control over what ubuntu puts intoi their packages, and what other packages they depend on. when installed packages are replaced, such as libs, installed programs may not work well - or not at all - with the different version of libs
231[02:22:58] <Bushmills> and in no time one has a rather unmaintainable system, in which things just don't play nice with each other any longer.
232[02:23:50] <Bushmills> one then keeps replacing packages just to get something working, and the system breaks somewhere else then
235[02:26:46] <fructose> Bushmills: Sure, that sounds like dependency hell to me though. I'd think plenty of Ubuntu packages would work fine though, which is why I asked.
242[02:29:29] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
246[02:32:19] <fructose> Bushmills: Yeah, though if someone release their little app for Ubuntu and I was running Debian, I'd expect to be able to install it without a chain reaction of Ubuntu packages being installed. I'd think the Debian version would be used.
247[02:32:58] <fructose> Bushmills: But if that's wrong, that'd be good to know.
248[02:33:50] <Bushmills> "without a chain reaction" - what if that little app insist on installing another version of a library than the one it finds already installed?
249[02:34:43] <fructose> Bushmills: I don't know how likely that is. My impression before this discussion would be that it's rare and implies the developer did something crazy.
290[03:23:56] *** Quits: Ignacy (~Ignacy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
291[03:24:49] *** Quits: Soo_Slow (Soo_Slow@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
292[03:25:06] <mk2b4> Hello, I'm trying to install debian on my system and I'm getting corrupted graphics during the install(menu is fine, install process for graphical or text is not), the system I'm using has a 2200g with integrated vega graphics(raven ridge), any suggestions on what to do?
297[03:31:06] <Bushmills> use text installer, see that graphics can be fixed later, for example with non-free firmware (from non-free repo which isn't enabled during install)
298[03:33:06] *** Quits: ElFerna (~ElFerna@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
299[03:35:21] <mk2b4> neither the text installer or the graphical installer work, both have garbled graphics. I also tried using the non-free firmware install image and that didn't work either. The installer menu displays correctly for some reason though, that's the confusing part
303[03:37:23] <Epakai> i have a couple drives on a marvell 9215 controller using zfs that show up as removable to my drive utility (udiskie). how do i mark these as fixed drives or whatever?
307[03:38:55] <coruja> mk2b4, maybe you want to try booting a debian live iso to investigate what could go wrong (it features a different installer also)
341[03:56:24] <mk2b4> Okay, I finished installing and it booted to terminal without issues. Here's the steps to fix the garbled graphics: Install Menu > Help > F8(boot parameters for installer) > Disable Framebuffer
343[04:01:52] <agris> Hello, I'm trying to build a backport, but my tools are giving me conflicting information I run # rmadison cgit --architecture amd64 and get the following response replaced-url
344[04:01:52] <agris> downloads 1.1+git2.10.2-3+deb9u1 based on cgit sources 1.1
345[04:01:53] <agris> i'm an Devuan ASCII. Am I doing something wrong? How do I download sources for cgit 1.2.1 ?
357[04:16:09] <mrvdv> Starting up a free hosting server. Will be hosting dedicated servers/shells if anyone wants one to play with or be serious on, pm me or come to #inter-link
404[05:39:39] <_Cute_Kitty_> when i close my laptop, the screen blacks obviously, but when i open it i can't turn it on or anything. the power button is still white showing that the laptop is on, but the screen is black and pressing mouse/trackpad,keys doesn't do anything
405[05:39:45] <_Cute_Kitty_> what should I do/
406[05:43:10] *** Quits: preview (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
419[05:56:19] <somiaj> you should be able to hold the power button down to force a hardware stop, then turn it back on. After that check your logs for errors about why it won't suspend correctly
420[05:56:35] <somiaj> you may also want to check your firmware (many call it bios) settings under acpi and set to non windows os
423[06:01:53] <_Cute_Kitty_> ok, so if i even touch the power button the log screen comes up because it's shutting down
424[06:02:22] <_Cute_Kitty_> which i don't want it to do. i want the power button to come off when i shut the laptop and the screen to go black, but all to come back up when i open it. there isn't a setting in debian that i can use to turn this on/off?
425[06:02:43] <rwp> _Cute_Kitty_, What type of laptop do you have? I would search the web for others using that laptop. Sounds like a firmware problem.
428[06:04:45] <annadane> _Cute_Kitty_, what does dmesg | grep -i firmware say, as root?
429[06:06:41] <_Cute_Kitty_> here's the output. replaced-url
430[06:06:58] <_Cute_Kitty_> I was also looking at the debian page for the laptop
431[06:08:04] <_Cute_Kitty_> oh, also, on the topic of the hp probook 640, I am having issues with the laptop periodically going "staticy" and totally a different color. i can't tell if it's a graphic card failing or if it's a setting in debian?
432[06:08:09] <annadane> what's your processor? maybe you should install microcode...
443[06:11:01] <annadane> microcode is something the manufacturer publishes to fix hardware bugs, essentially... it's a security flaw not to have it installed and your hardware may not perform up to specification
444[06:11:02] <_Cute_Kitty_> that's not helpful. here's the output of that command apt install replaced-url
445[06:11:04] <_Cute_Kitty_> i'm getting errors
446[06:11:08] <rwp> I was just going to ask which graphics you have but that paste shows the Intel graphics. Which I think is a good graphics for linux kernel.
447[06:11:19] <annadane> well, if you don't want my help then never mind.
448[06:11:27] <annadane> unless you're responding to rwp
449[06:11:28] <_Cute_Kitty_> annadane: i wasn't referring to you :
450[06:11:31] <_Cute_Kitty_> sorry
451[06:11:33] <annadane> but, yes, intel-microcode is a package name
452[06:11:45] <_Cute_Kitty_> rwp: so you're saying the graphics card is more likely failing
453[06:11:47] <_Cute_Kitty_> than some bug in debian
454[06:11:54] <_Cute_Kitty_> since my intel graphics should work fine?
455[06:12:16] <annadane> those aren't errors
456[06:12:21] <annadane> they're advisories
457[06:12:27] <_Cute_Kitty_> oh ok. so i'm good with intel microde then
458[06:12:49] <_Cute_Kitty_> what firmware do i have missing though,
459[06:12:50] <agris> Hello, So I was wondering about the PHP support
461[06:13:13] <rwp> I am sorry that the 'bot info about the intel-microcode package was not helpful to you. It was just indicating that it was a package and what versions are available.
462[06:13:17] <annadane> i'm trying to figure that out
464[06:13:40] <agris> I'm running ASCII (Debian 9 compatable) and Debian 9 is still supported
465[06:13:59] <agris> however Debian 9 comes with PHP 7.0, which is end-of-life from the PHP mainline
466[06:14:09] <rwp> I think firmware-misc-nonfree should be installed to silence those warnings.
467[06:14:16] <_Cute_Kitty_> ok
468[06:14:19] <agris> Does this mean that I will still get security fixes for Debian9 PHP 7.0?
469[06:14:27] <_Cute_Kitty_> well it probably doesn't matter for me
470[06:14:35] <agris> for as long as Debian 9 is supported
471[06:14:40] <annadane> if you don't care about FOSS overly much, i'd probably install firmware-misc-nonfree on a laptop
472[06:14:58] <annadane> you should reboot after installing that (you should reboot after installing intel-microcode regardless)
473[06:15:04] <_Cute_Kitty_> what is more concering is this... replaced-url
474[06:15:10] <diogenes_> Hello guys, is it possible to change the metadata of a picture? for instance, somebody downloaded a picture into my pc yesterday and normally when you look at the properties it would say: Modified: Yesterday, Accessed: Yesterday, now he modifies the metadata, and it would show: Modified and Accessed months ago?
479[06:15:55] <rwp> agris, I believe the security team will support PHP 7.0 through the stable release lifecycle, yes.
480[06:16:00] <_Cute_Kitty_> that's what i'm talking about the display
481[06:16:22] <_Cute_Kitty_> i think maybe the best bet is to put something ELSE on, like windows, and just leave it on the windows screen, and see if the problem duplicates
482[06:16:29] <annadane> rwp, do you want to handle this? i don't mean to step on your toes
483[06:16:31] <_Cute_Kitty_> that way I can isolate debian out as a problem
484[06:16:59] <rwp> agris, Note that there is the Stable release lifecycle and at the end of it then support falls to the LTS team for a restricted set of packages.
485[06:17:09] <rwp> annadane, You were doing great! Sorry if I was stepping on your toes.
486[06:17:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> thanks for all the help so far guys, rwp: annadane:
487[06:17:37] <annadane> i think what i'd do is just install firmware-misc-nonfree and intel-microcode and reboot and see if that fixes your hibernation issues
488[06:17:48] <rwp> I thought we were doing well working together with suggestions. But if I am getting in your way I will tone it down.
489[06:17:52] <annadane> or try windows and see if it's a debian problem too, that's up to you
490[06:17:55] <annadane> you're not
491[06:18:11] <somiaj> most like it is teh mobo firmware, and either make sure you ahve the most current firmware, and/or have played with its acpi settings (often possible)
492[06:18:15] <_Cute_Kitty_> yeah. it's got to be the graphics card in the laptop i'm thinking. but the thing is, if I reboot usuallly it goes away
493[06:18:42] <_Cute_Kitty_> so it's not a constant issue, it just sporadically switches to weirdom, and doesn't go away until shut off /rebooted
494[06:18:45] <annadane> the entry in dmesg does indicate not up to date firmware
495[06:18:50] <rwp> diogenes_, I think you are referring to the exif data. Yes. There are several tools for modifying the exif data of jpeg images.
496[06:18:54] <agris> rwp, ok so Debian 9 still has 1 more year of non-LTS support?
513[06:21:26] <rwp> _Cute_Kitty_, Does suspend and resume work? If it were me when this happens I would try suspending and then resuming as a way of kickstarting it back to usable.
514[06:21:29] <annadane> not sure if you might know more
515[06:22:03] <_Cute_Kitty_> rwp: i'll try
516[06:22:20] <annadane> it's very likely xserver-xorg-video-intel is already installed
517[06:22:53] <annadane> _Cute_Kitty_, just for my own curiosity, what does dpkg -l xserver-xorg-video-intel say? if you wouldn't mind
524[06:25:35] <annadane> it most likely should be firmware-misc-nonfree that's required
525[06:25:56] <annadane> i think xserver-xorg-video-intel is just the generic intel graphics card component for x and that wouldn't be the issue
526[06:26:37] <annadane> sorry for rambling and being excessively talkative, just trying to figure this out because i'm not sure how to tell the difference
539[06:32:29] *** Quits: Drax1e\X (~THUG@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
540[06:32:50] <annadane> you kind of lose the ability to be a free software enthusiast if you're on a laptop. :P
541[06:36:39] <rwp> I am one of the outliers that disagrees that firmware blobs are non-free. They are no worse than the hardware they are driving. Who gets schematics with hardware these days?
544[06:37:22] <rwp> If non-open hardware is allowed then why not firmware blobs too? The two are the same. But that is a debate for -offtopic probably.
550[06:39:21] <annadane> i have a xserver-xorg-video-nvidia
551[06:40:58] <ilikeyou> hi ppl. Hey, anyone notice the clock item for xfce panel is buggy? On two separate installations it will not let me change from 24 to 12hr. If I try, the icon disappears and I have to add it again.
583[06:55:55] <vastemptiness> is crunchbang still around?
584[06:56:29] <annadane> Philip Newborough announced on 6 February 2015 that he had stopped developing CrunchBang and that users would benefit from using vanilla Debian.[4] Some Linux distributions have arisen in its place in an effort to continue its environment. Among the most significant are BunsenLabs and CrunchBang++.[5]
585[06:56:57] <annadane> warsoul, cool. now consider updating your system to fix those 210 old packages :P
586[06:57:08] <warsoul> lol
587[06:57:13] <vastemptiness> too bad, it was so lite
588[06:57:17] <warsoul> how i do that?
589[06:57:22] <annadane> apt upgrade
590[06:57:47] <annadane> i'd certainly learn basic package management if you're going to use debian
591[06:57:56] <vastemptiness> now, iirc, its possible to change sources.list to another distro based on debian, to 'upgrade' to that distro, right?
592[06:58:16] <annadane> not really, no. don't mix distros like that
593[06:59:21] <ZaZaGX> i thought Crunchbang is from Ubuntu base
596[06:59:56] <vastemptiness> while you're on the topic of apt, there's no search, right? i've always installed aptitude to do a aptitude search package
606[07:05:10] <annadane> and if you want to piss off greycat, use synaptic
607[07:06:02] <warsoul> i download a debian image with cinammon if i want to change the desktop environment i can?
608[07:06:14] <annadane> if you have internet access, yes
609[07:06:39] <rwp> I'm not fond of synaptic either but each to their own. ykinmkbykiok
610[07:07:02] <annadane> ykinmkbykiok?
611[07:07:10] * ZaZaGX uses synaptic
612[07:07:13] <joze> synaptic touch devices?
613[07:07:21] <rwp> warsoul, If you already have a running Debian installation then you can simply install cinammon and then use it. No need to re-install.
614[07:07:43] <warsoul> rwp i have cinammon but im thinking on change it
659[07:15:22] <annadane> most desktops are essentially infinitely customizable so it's not really set in stone in terms of looks if you use this or that desktop
660[07:15:24] <rwp> I am actually liking cinnamon quite a bit lately. Seems nice. (However I am using an i3 window manager for my main systems.)
661[07:15:29] <annadane> see reddit.com/r/unixporn for inspiration
662[07:15:49] * annadane is on a very basic XFCE setup
689[07:27:53] <ZaZaGX> impressive. i have a newer 2018 laptop too. it takes about that long to start up
690[07:28:20] <annadane> dwm on void linux starting in 6-8 seconds is actually massively slow
691[07:28:22] <rwp> dwm is an interesting window manager. I must try it sometime. No config files. Just compile it as you like it.
692[07:28:25] <annadane> void is very fast and dwm is very minimalistic
693[07:29:04] <VadPerevad> annadane, my laptop is very ancient :)
694[07:29:09] <annadane> duly noted
695[07:29:12] <NetEcho> When using the netinstall cd Debian desktop environment under Software selection installs gnome even when gnome isn't selected?
696[07:29:30] <annadane> yep, if you select desktop environment by itself, gnome is installed by default
714[07:31:08] <ZaZaGX> its kind of true. if you select desktop envioroment by itself. you don't get all the gnome apps. and no GUI to check to the wifi too
727[07:33:31] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: ah makes sense, yea it'd have to install some sort of environment if none was selected
728[07:33:38] <annadane> all these desktops in the install select a bunch of extraneous stuff people may not anyway which is why now i uncheck everything but standard utilities and build my system up from scratch
729[07:33:43] <NetEcho> at least it wasn't twm :P
730[07:33:48] <annadane> i'm using xfce but it doesn't mean i select xfce from the installer
733[07:34:31] <NetEcho> annadane: yea I want to play around with it for a bit and tune it to my laptop, haven't really used linux as a desktop since around 2001
734[07:34:43] <annadane> twm is freebsd, right? yeah, really horribly minimalistic
735[07:34:53] <annadane> twm is freebsd and openbsd is cwm
736[07:35:05] <annadane> or it might be fvwm by default these days, i don't remember
743[07:36:07] <annadane> gnome does by default, in debian buster
744[07:36:11] <NetEcho> yea it's generally what you'll see the first time you test X from a blank install heh
745[07:36:11] <annadane> not sure about what else
746[07:37:01] <NetEcho> twm reminds me a bit of Windows 3.1 lol
747[07:37:34] <ZaZaGX> oh yeah Hanna Montona linux distro has like a alpha version of Wayland installed i think
748[07:38:11] <rwp> I think Windows 3.1 was probably influenced by twm. But certainly both were influenced by the other earlier windowing systems.
749[07:38:13] <ZaZaGX> hannah*
750[07:39:00] <annadane> i kind of wish debian installed less crap by default in tasksel, but oh well
751[07:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1476
752[07:39:05] <annadane> i'm sure first time users are happy
753[07:39:26] <rwp> I still use twm in VNC sessions. It is good for avoiding confusing for me to use a different, simpler, window manager in the VNC session than what is on my desktop. And twm is pretty light weight and good for VNC sessions.
754[07:39:39] <ZaZaGX> crap, i was wrong. its Rebecca Black Linux Distro
755[07:40:07] <annadane> i've tried using freebsd as a desktop once or twice. it's... very niche
756[07:40:17] <annadane> it does not scream "desktop"
758[07:41:18] <annadane> twm is a very horrid first desktop appearance
759[07:42:13] <rwp> I am sure that i3 would not appeal to a first time desktop experience either. Yet it has its appeal.
760[07:44:06] <NetEcho> annadane: yeah that's something I'll be looking at, trimming my debian install but at least Debian generally just works out of the box
762[07:44:31] <rwp> Like having nano, vim, emacs, other, available. They are all very different from each other. Diversity of choice is good for users.
763[07:44:42] <annadane> tasksel is proably fine for most people but the distinction between firefox esr and firefox can be confusing
766[07:46:10] <NetEcho> yea I'm not overly familiar with ESR but the gist I get from it is; trading off the latest greatest features for enhanced security and stability
783[07:51:29] <NetEcho> yea depends on the use case of the machine
784[07:51:57] <NetEcho> my laptop is generally going to be used when I'm travelling around to work on other people's crap so ESR will likely be fine for me
785[07:53:22] <annadane> also one version means less attack surface
786[07:53:32] <annadane> so ESR as a matter of principle probably should be preferred
787[07:53:36] <warsoul> guys and what window manager you recommend me for my video card?
790[07:53:54] <annadane> if you're just on nouveau and don't want the nvidia proprietary driver... xfce is fine
791[07:54:03] <warsoul> geforce gtx 1060
792[07:54:04] <rwp> Due to Firefox not giving me a way to set keybindings but Chromium allowing me to set them I mostly use Chromium.
793[07:54:07] <rwp> And it saves me from myself of spending too much time web surfing. Due to "Oh snap!" telling me to stop surving.
794[07:54:10] <annadane> if you don't mind using nvidia then anything is fine, depends on what you want
795[07:54:18] <NetEcho> warsoul: with that card you can choose whichever window manager you like
796[07:54:28] <NetEcho> and what annadane said
797[07:54:32] <annadane> not on nouveau, you can't.
798[07:55:10] <NetEcho> I'm surprised nouveau isn't there yet
799[07:55:27] <rwp> It is just KDE's insane animations that don't work well on nouveau. But I haven't run into anything else that has problems.
800[07:55:28] <annadane> blame nvidia
801[07:55:48] <warsoul> and what else i can use beside nouveau
802[07:55:51] <annadane> maybe the situation improved, i don't know. i used to get crashes on kde with nouveau
803[07:55:53] <NetEcho> to think once upon a time nVidia was the way to go for linux
804[07:56:02] <rwp> For most people as long as it plays videos then it is fine. Nouveau plays full res videos fine.
805[07:56:08] <annadane> well, you can install the nvidia proprietary driver if you don't want to use nouveau
806[07:56:33] <warsoul> and if i install nouveau that doesnt matter?
807[07:56:49] <annadane> if you play high graphic games you'll want to use nvidia... if you don't use your computer for a whole lot of specialized tasks i'm sure nouveau is fine
808[07:56:56] <rwp> warsoul, I advise to ignore the various chitchat that is all side channel complaining about the sorry state of free graphics drivers.
809[07:57:03] <annadane> i advise that as well
810[07:57:05] <annadane> sorry
811[07:57:23] <warsoul> ok
812[07:57:31] <warsoul> what you suggested me to do?
814[07:57:50] <annadane> well, what desktop do you use now?
815[07:58:06] <warsoul> cinammon
816[07:58:13] <annadane> i guess that's fine
817[07:58:22] <warsoul> ok
818[07:58:23] <rwp> I suggest you install the nouveau driver and don't worry further until you have an actual performance problem with it. It will be fine for you.
819[07:58:31] <warsoul> after the installation and upgrade
820[07:58:33] <warsoul> i should restart?
821[07:59:02] <annadane> you upgraded the 210 packages? i don't know what you upgraded, but if it's that much the answer is "probably"
822[07:59:04] <rwp> Because you were so behind I am sure it installed a new Linux kernel. So yes you should reboot in order to run the updated Linux kernel.
823[07:59:21] <warsoul> ok
824[07:59:22] * NetEcho loves that the mirror he uses for apt is only 30km away :P
825[07:59:49] <NetEcho> my niece actually attends the university it's hosted at
840[08:02:04] <annadane> there's a terrible habit people can get into on channels like this with softball questions, you end up in tier 1 help desk support mode and start trying to answer everything
856[08:05:56] <NetEcho> gees I'm half way through installing Buster on my laptop and just realized the touchpad isn't working lol... I'm so bloody used to keyboard only installs
883[08:18:04] <annadane> anyhow... desktops and GUIs are just utilities. you can make them look how you want in many different ways or even mix and match components from several different ones
889[08:21:12] <annadane> there's large and small versions of each of them, task-gnome-desktop will install gnome, games, web browser, libreoffice... but you can install smaller packages like gnome-core
890[08:21:16] <annadane> or even smaller
891[08:21:37] <ZaZaGX> whoa, i didn't know there is a gnome-core
909[08:25:00] <annadane> it's pretty rare cinnamon will get updates until the next stable release but a good way to keep abreast of updates is by subscribing to debian-security-announce
910[08:25:16] <annadane> or install some kind of package update icon
911[08:25:24] <annadane> i'm using package-update-indicator on xfce
912[08:25:33] <annadane> don't know if cinnamon has one natively
922[08:26:55] <annadane> but stable in general doesn't get updates very often and i doubt cinnamon ever will until 2 years from now when it's the next stable release
923[08:27:01] <annadane> yes
924[08:27:55] <warsoul> annadane how can i do that?
925[08:28:07] <warsoul> i will like xfce with webbrowser hexchat, etc.
926[08:28:25] <annadane> if you already have those installed you don't need to do anything to install xfce
927[08:28:31] <annadane> apt install xfce4 is fine
928[08:29:19] <warsoul> you dont like cinammon?
929[08:29:35] <annadane> it's... okay, i've just gotten used to xfce4
930[08:29:46] <annadane> maybe a little bit bloated for my tastes
931[08:29:55] <warsoul> themes are not working good on mines
942[08:33:00] <annadane> log out and select it from your login screen. optionally, you may also want xfce4-goodies, you can see the package description with apt show xfce4-goodies. but that's up to you
943[08:34:11] <warsoul> what come in the goodies
944[08:34:22] <annadane> like i said, see the package description...
964[08:49:55] <NetEcho> yeah these ones affect my ability to have X running heh
965[08:50:06] <annadane> very much depends on the errors warsoul
966[08:52:24] <NetEcho> annadane: the odd part is I used the nonfree installer to avoid this problem but it would seem that didn't help and the wiki article it points me to only has instructions for fixing the problem during the install process. is there a way to fix this without having to spend another 2 hours installing?
967[08:53:06] <annadane> well you can just install the firmware now
992[08:56:08] <annadane> someone else may be able to answer
993[08:56:14] <weedloser> NetEcho: it's a metapackage that includes firmware-misc-nonfree (intel igpu and other stuff) the amd graphics and both microcodes.
1002[08:57:53] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1003[08:57:55] <annadane> i know void gives you all the firmware at the start to be able to install it and then you can remove it all later if you want
1004[08:57:59] <annadane> same for siduction
1005[08:58:17] <NetEcho> does firmware-amd-graphics also have the older radeon stuff? I'm not exactly sure which of the two kernel drivers supports this chipset. It's A8-6410 APU with AMD R4/R5 Series Graphics
1006[08:58:19] <weedloser> erm, 99% of non-kiss distributions do
1007[08:58:29] <weedloser> and it's completely reasonable in my opinion.
1008[08:58:43] <weedloser> firwmare != malicious code, it doesn't run on your cpu.
1009[08:59:10] <weedloser> gnu guix is honestly the only other distribution i can come to think of
1010[08:59:18] <weedloser> and the other purists.
1011[08:59:28] <weedloser> NetEcho: yes.
1012[08:59:39] <NetEcho> weedloser: perfect thank you
1013[08:59:46] <weedloser> the documentation regarding this (everything) should be much much better.
1039[09:03:38] <NetEcho> annadane: weird part is even though I used the nonfree image it still didn't install the firmware heh.. it atleast enabled nonfree in sources.list
1040[09:03:53] <annadane> yeah, i don't know. sorry. A Wizard Did It
1041[09:04:00] <weedloser> the debian installer has an autodetection mechanism for 'missing firmware'
1064[09:07:30] <weedloser> debian and guixsd are at least copable.
1065[09:07:48] <NetEcho> is openbsd painful to work with?
1066[09:07:52] <weedloser> opposite
1067[09:08:07] <weedloser> i meant that it's better
1068[09:08:21] <ZaZaGX> isn't openbsd had like 2 vulerablities in a whole lifetime? Microsoft wish they had a record like that i heard
1069[09:08:32] <weedloser> remote holes in the default install
1070[09:08:39] <weedloser> yes
1071[09:08:42] <NetEcho> *BSD in general is pretty solid
1072[09:08:45] <weedloser> ^
1073[09:08:58] <EdePopede> i should finally build up that other computer, change the disks, install stable and give it some more ram. *then* i'll think about bsd and what not in a vm ;)
1074[09:09:19] <ZaZaGX> i wouldn't know where to get BSD help online
1075[09:09:30] <annadane> i've gone through "today, i shall set up a freebsd desktop. now, what first... <95 manual things>"
1077[09:09:41] <annadane> i'm sure it's all lovely (not that i can use openbsd, thank you nvidia)
1078[09:09:43] <weedloser> freebsd is a mess
1079[09:09:45] <NetEcho> I've got a FreeNAS based media server which is based on FreeBSD, that thing has been running great for years
1080[09:09:58] <Lady_Aleena> Now, why aren't there configuration files for apache2 in ~/.config instead of me having to edit its config files as root all the time?
1081[09:10:06] <weedloser> >freebsd is a mess but still better than linux
1082[09:10:12] <NetEcho> lol
1083[09:10:20] <NetEcho> weedloser: a mess how?
1084[09:10:29] <ZaZaGX> is freebsd better?
1085[09:10:43] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: httpds usually run on privileged port 80, thus are a root thing per default
1086[09:10:58] <NetEcho> ok so it turns out I dislike KDE Plasma as much as I dislike gnome 3 lol
1087[09:11:00] <weedloser> well, it's not really suitable as a sane desktop
1088[09:11:02] <annadane> linux may suck but it's what i'm used to and does what i want
1089[09:11:09] <weedloser> freebsd devs mostly run macs, which also are better than linux
1090[09:11:26] <ZaZaGX> weedloser, why does linux sucks?
1091[09:11:32] <EdePopede> macs.. as in Hardware?
1092[09:11:33] <weedloser> it's not really secure by default, you have to struggle a bit to get something good going
1093[09:11:42] <weedloser> EdePopede: sure, you'll need that to run macos
1094[09:11:45] <NetEcho> weedloser: ah that makes sense, I've not heard of many people using it as a desktop os
1095[09:11:49] * Bushmills runs a slide rule
1096[09:12:05] <EdePopede> weedloser: so you were just comparing a hardware platform to a kernel?
1097[09:12:08] <weedloser> openbsd is extremely sane default, it's much easier than any linux distro you've ever heard of to adminester
1098[09:12:12] <annadane> at least debian is mostly sane, though openssl as a concept scares me
1099[09:12:23] <annadane> void/openbsd actually use libressl
1107[09:13:50] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, can't there be a .conf file that is read into the main apache2.conf or something?
1108[09:13:58] <weedloser> but apple does a few things great.
1109[09:14:04] <weedloser> altough they're a dirteh corp.
1110[09:14:10] <weedloser> better than deadrat :tm:
1111[09:14:17] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: it may be, but it is a BSD derivative so it could be more secure aside from their own spyware :P
1112[09:14:27] <Lady_Aleena> My main reason for wanting a user config for apache2 is I hate using nano.
1113[09:14:30] <ZaZaGX> there is a youtube user named "null byte" he give you instructions to how to hack mac os security and stuff. and other stuff like using Kali linux
1115[09:14:47] <annadane> well, nobody cares about kali linux
1116[09:14:51] <annadane> neeeeeext
1117[09:15:02] <ZaZaGX> why not annadane?
1118[09:15:02] <weedloser> kali linux is an USB debian with some l33t hacking tools preinstalled
1119[09:15:08] <weedloser> there
1120[09:15:10] <weedloser> next
1121[09:15:19] <NetEcho> lol
1122[09:15:41] <annadane> so if freebsd is a mess, and you can't get WINE on openbsd or really play games... and void is... lacking in documentation... WTF do we us
1123[09:15:41] <annadane> e
1124[09:15:50] * annadane gives up and moves back into the caves
1126[09:16:05] <weedloser> annadane: give up games on the computer you use openbsd on
1127[09:16:09] <weedloser> games are harmful anyway :D
1128[09:16:16] * Lady_Aleena head desks.
1129[09:16:17] <ZaZaGX> that website has a bunch of mac os sample viruses you can try. and it has some free security software
1130[09:16:30] <weedloser> not gonna click that
1131[09:16:32] <weedloser> xd
1132[09:16:41] <ZaZaGX> you have to unzip them first
1133[09:16:51] * weedloser clicks it
1134[09:16:51] <annadane> i like freebsd as a concept but it really needs a bit more hand holding for first time users
1135[09:17:07] <weedloser> freebsd is good for capitalistic servers
1136[09:17:07] <annadane> it is noooot intuitive, no matter how much the fanboys promote it
1137[09:17:12] <weedloser> ^
1138[09:17:27] <ZaZaGX> i like that LuLu firewall, you can select which traffic to block out going. mac os doesn't do that by default
1139[09:17:30] <annadane> yes i know, handbook, yes i know, great man pages
1140[09:17:34] <annadane> i stand by what i said
1141[09:17:37] <NetEcho> annadane: very true, I set my server up back in 2014 and it wasn't until last summer that I finally realized a lot of critical mistakes I had made and corrected them
1142[09:17:40] <annadane> fuck setting up freebsd blind
1143[09:17:47] <weedloser> that's what i'm saying.
1144[09:17:56] <weedloser> in openbsd you only need to read man pages
1145[09:18:00] <weedloser> you're covered
1146[09:18:04] <NetEcho> and then FreeNAS finally updated to the iocage jails and I had to re-learn lol
1181[09:21:16] <annadane> void is a really cool mix of linux + bsdisms but it doesn't have the biggest community and it's poorly documented
1182[09:21:32] <weedloser> musl isn't actually usable either
1183[09:21:35] <weedloser> but good try
1184[09:21:42] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena, as for nano: since i can't live without a file manager on the shell and mc is open anyway i usually use its internal editor for such tasks.
1185[09:22:14] <weedloser> alpine pulled it off better
1186[09:22:22] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, there is a file manager in the shell? How is that possible?
1187[09:22:25] <weedloser> but unusable
1188[09:22:41] <NetEcho> Lady_Aleena: mc (midnight commander) it's ancient but still great
1189[09:22:53] * weedloser gets angry at linux userspace again
1190[09:22:53] <ZaZaGX> i can't afford Windows 10.
1192[09:23:01] <annadane> so, anyway, freebsd is disappointing and they'd do well to listen to the idiot linux users
1193[09:23:02] <weedloser> MC is good
1194[09:23:07] <annadane> we may be idiots but we need something that actually works
1195[09:23:11] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: buy a volume license on amazon for like $8
1196[09:23:14] <ZaZaGX> Microsoft wants me to pay them 200 bucks for the Pro
1197[09:23:24] <weedloser> just don't use pro?
1198[09:23:25] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena, as for configs: you can Include other files (usually from the conf.d subdirectory using your own) as it already does near the end of the .conf with some files. (i like to keep things clean, so i get one of my own configs included which then does the rest)
1199[09:23:26] <weedloser> home is free
1200[09:23:33] <NetEcho> it's technically legal you just can't get official MS support and can't migrate it to new hardware
1201[09:23:50] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: what country are you in?
1202[09:23:56] <weedloser> i've heard a lot of good about that long support release w10
1203[09:24:02] <weedloser> nowhere to actually get it though.
1204[09:24:02] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: remember good old norton commander? well, it's become the grampa of a really big widespread family ;)
1205[09:24:07] <weedloser> tragic
1206[09:24:44] <ZaZaGX> I live in USA, California, not that far from Los Angeles
1207[09:24:53] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, I never used Norton Commander. I usually manage files from the gui.
1208[09:24:57] <weedloser> I'll eventually give up and just install that long support release on a second hard drive to play my harmful gmaes
1209[09:25:07] <weedloser> imagine bothering with gpu passtrough :DDDDDD
1211[09:25:46] <EdePopede> ZaZaGX: i bought some used computer for something like 100 bucks last year, came with w10home included. had an option for pro, but i didn't feel like giving redmond more money than i had to.
1212[09:25:52] <Lady_Aleena> And I was going to try to get some help getting my apache configs in order on OFTC, but the debian-apache channel there is very sparsely populated.
1214[09:26:45] <weedloser> EdePopede: speaking off, you can get dell laptops (and desktops, maybe?) without an os
1215[09:26:48] <weedloser> you spare a 100 bucks
1216[09:26:49] <ZaZaGX> I got this laptop with Windows 10 home, but i wiped it, and installed Ubuntu and used it for like a year, than wiped it and installed Debian.
1217[09:27:09] <ZaZaGX> my first ever debian is buster
1218[09:27:17] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: there's no real difference besides pixel based vs character cell based. no nifty icons, but who cares. and ways faster. and fully usable with the keyboard, so no endless click orgies.
1228[09:27:50] <annadane> if you look hard enough, essentially everything sucks and has significant flaws
1229[09:27:53] <annadane> even openbsd
1230[09:28:00] <annadane> so, whatever. debian works, for my purposes
1231[09:28:02] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, that's why I learn most of the keyboard shortcuts for gui programs quickly.
1232[09:28:03] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: can't find it on the US store but this may work for you, the price went up a little but I used it a few months ago and it worked just fine replaced-url
1233[09:28:06] <weedloser> even though that hurt a little, you're right
1234[09:28:43] <weedloser> situation: there are now x +1 softwarez/distros/os's
1235[09:29:17] <Lady_Aleena> I needed this break from writing svg. I am beginning to lose it a bit. So change is good.
1241[09:30:05] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: the main reason for me to use mc is the two panes. never felt like going with one of these windows explorer/mac finder clones. if you remember the days of windows 3.x, there was fileman.exe. it's only purpose had been to get norton out of the market. that should say enough about which model is the superior one ;)
1242[09:30:05] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: it's meant as an additional key for a volume license so it technically violates Microsofts terms so you lose access to their tech support and you can't migrate it to new hardware after it's been activated
1243[09:30:36] <ZaZaGX> Mircosoft has a tech support?
1244[09:30:45] <NetEcho> ZaZaGX: apparently lol
1245[09:31:00] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, I tend to let myself forget things that I don't use anymore. So I do not remember fileman.exe.
1246[09:31:03] <J_C> I use a Dell XPS 9360 if we're talking about laptops
1247[09:31:14] <EdePopede> you have 3 calls free after registration or so i've read many years ago. never did either xD
1248[09:31:23] <ZaZaGX> I went to the Mircosoft store. And I had a hard time navigating the Windows menu. I didn't know what to click on and i feel overwhelm
1249[09:31:26] <J_C> It is good, but the "Killer" WiFi cards cause problems, even for Windows users.
1250[09:31:28] <zamuro> Well, people that pay licensing are supposed to have support somehow.
1257[09:32:29] <NetEcho> zamuro: I believe all they'd support is activation type issues
1258[09:32:50] <zamuro> LOL indeed
1259[09:33:03] <ZaZaGX> I used to have Dell Ubuntu tech support. really bad people from india. they didn't know what Ubuntu is
1260[09:33:15] <ZaZaGX> really bad tech support i mean
1261[09:33:22] <zamuro> Even at enterprise level, unless you're like goldman sachs or some shit like that, you won't get support.
1262[09:33:22] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: sounds familiar ;) that's why i started playing around with wikis years ago, since i don't really like the desktop solutions and the hard linking between program and files (code and data). and for a notebook with enriched linked content i can't imagine any better concept.
1263[09:33:27] <weedloser> J_C: dell xps is great
1264[09:33:27] <NetEcho> which when you pay <$20 for the license at that point you cut your losses and/or pirate the damn thing lol
1265[09:33:43] <weedloser> annadane: don't do it now, just wait for intel 10nm desktops and their dgpus
1266[09:33:48] <weedloser> they're gonna be epic
1267[09:33:51] <NetEcho> Dell is hit or miss
1268[09:34:05] <J_C> NetEcho: Yep. Luckily, the 9360 is the last of the XPS 13 line that allows you to replaced the card, so I just bought an Intel card and replaced it
1269[09:34:06] <weedloser> dell does really great hardware in my experience
1270[09:34:09] <weedloser> thinkpad has gone to crap
1271[09:34:15] <annadane> my goodwill toward intel isn't exactly high
1272[09:34:15] <weedloser> so that's your only choice, i think
1273[09:34:19] <NetEcho> my old Dell laptop was a beast that never died on me. the one my parents bought lasted 24 hours
1274[09:34:21] <ZaZaGX> Vista Black on the pirate bay has a bunch of viruses in it
1275[09:34:28] <annadane> rather support AMD
1276[09:34:33] <weedloser> annadane: why?
1277[09:34:43] <NetEcho> this laptop I'm working on is a Lenovo Flex 2
1278[09:34:48] <zamuro> Why getting support from a vendor on linux when you have all these merry folks at IRC? LOL
1279[09:34:53] <annadane> the whole spectre stuff doesn't inspire confidence and their corporate toxicity generally
1280[09:34:53] <weedloser> both are businesses, it's silly to pick and choose based on corporate ethics.
1281[09:34:58] <weedloser> they make better products
1282[09:35:14] <weedloser> AMD is no good either
1283[09:35:18] <Lady_Aleena> I would LOVE to get my apache2 configs in order. I KNOW I should not be editing apache2.conf, but I don't know much about the whole sites-available/enabled thing.
1284[09:35:19] <zamuro> You can always make a question about ubuntu here and you'll get a response right away.
1285[09:35:23] <J_C> The ThinkPad X395 looks good though.
1286[09:35:30] <annadane> yeah like "go bother #ubuntu"
1287[09:35:34] <zamuro> Maybe not the one you want, but a resonse nontheless xD
1288[09:35:35] <EdePopede> ah, Lenovo. said other PC is a thinkcentre. learned some weeks ago that it is one of the companies i'd better keep my hands off, thanks to proprietary crap.
1289[09:36:11] <weedloser> think like this: intel contributes large amounts of code back to lunix and other open source stuff
1290[09:36:14] <weedloser> amd doesn't
1291[09:36:14] <zamuro> Lady_Aleena: It's kind of self explanatory: sites-available are the actual config files.
1292[09:36:15] <NetEcho> yeah they've done some shady things lately
1293[09:36:18] <weedloser> corporate ethics aside
1294[09:36:28] <annadane> fair, i guess
1295[09:36:35] <zamuro> Lady_Aleena: whereas sites-enabled are symlinks created by a2ensite
1297[09:37:05] <NetEcho> zamuro: I will say this, most of the mainstream distro channels have gotten a lot friendlier over the years
1298[09:37:06] <weedloser> intel's firmware is also enourmusly better, with zen we still have buggy firmware to this day
1299[09:37:29] <weedloser> amd fine wine :tm:
1300[09:37:53] <zamuro> NetEcho: Hell yeah!! I mean, ten years ago this conversation wouldn't be poosible without someone crying about "off-topic"
1301[09:37:54] <Lady_Aleena> zamuro, I never really got into getting apache2's sites-available/enabled set up. I just edit apache2.conf because it is easier to remember, I guess.
1302[09:38:00] <annadane> wonder if i could set up a chroot for wine in openbsd and flatpaks generally...
1303[09:38:15] <weedloser> ahahahah
1304[09:38:23] <annadane> i'll take thar as a "no"
1305[09:38:26] <NetEcho> zamuro: or most questions being answered with "RTFM you n00b!"
1306[09:38:28] <weedloser> ;)
1307[09:38:33] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: of course it uses the default config per default. so you have two options: a) change the default config in some way (even if it's just an Include section at its end using your own bunch of config files where you override things); or b) start it with an option to use an alternative config - which could live in the subdirectory or maybe in /usr/local somewhere or so, if you want to throw everything related into this space
1308[09:38:38] <Lady_Aleena> And I think apache2.conf is the only config file where I can set up localhost.
1310[09:38:49] <zamuro> Lady_Aleena: Well, you gotta take into account what's the benefit of that. I mean, if you've got like only one site running, maybe doesn't worth the hassle.
1311[09:38:52] <weedloser> well, most lunix software is in ports, if that's what you want flatpak for
1312[09:39:05] <annadane> nah
1313[09:39:15] <weedloser> ah ok
1314[09:39:31] <J_C> NetEcho: zamuro: I like to think channels like these are friendly because they aren't so cranky from having their distro fail on them all the time :P
1315[09:39:47] <weedloser> J_C: nice one
1316[09:40:18] <zamuro> J_C: And this whole "linux guru" or "distro fundamentalist" thingie have been diluting over the years.
1317[09:40:23] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: there are scripts to enable/disable particular sites and modules. but in the end they do nothing more than creating and removing the symlinks to the files in ./conf-available/ and ./sites-available/, just convenience
1319[09:40:34] <NetEcho> weedloser: side note I decided to run through the install again just to see if the firmware issue continues and if I go graphical install the resolution is messed up but if I go Expert Graphical install all of a sudden the proper resolution is being used so I'm wondering if this time around it'll install the proper firmware
1342[09:43:08] <weedloser> buster backports doesn't have anything juicy yet, i think
1343[09:43:20] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: if you wabt to get into it, you could create a new .conf *somewhere* and start apache from a shell telling it to use it. usually it should throw errors first which you could fix one by one. i'd go for /usr/local (as root, port 80 or 88 or whatever) or in $HOME if you'd use 8000 or something. read the error, understand what it means, fix it, give it a new try. iirc in the end you should have a workable basic configuration in the end.
1344[09:43:38] * weedloser engages shiny new shit :tm:
1345[09:43:53] <NetEcho> fair enough and yea weedloser you'd assume the inverse would be the logical choice heh
1346[09:44:20] <NetEcho> could be a bug on the nonfree version of the netinst ced
1347[09:44:23] <NetEcho> *cd
1348[09:44:32] <weedloser> upstream devs are always mad about debian but yet we're the ones that has a reliable system
1353[09:45:04] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: i can imagine the reason, and i'm fine with it. keep things sorted, keep its flexibility in an easy way. better having an Include line you just could comment out than the need to remove 50 lines. and having a huge config file with everything new thrown in at the end.
1355[09:47:04] <annadane> this is the most fun day #debian has had in years. :P
1356[09:47:08] <annadane> hooray for 3 am offtopic
1357[09:47:31] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, I sort of keep my stuff in the middle of it. I could show you if you want me to do things right (according to Debian).
1358[09:47:31] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: an service is found at a combination of host and port (actually interface and port, you can have a couple of network cards in your pc). and you only can have ONE server listening to each combination of interface and port. so you could have apache on :80 and nginx on :8080, maybe some selfcontained wiki at :8000.
1359[09:47:41] <ZaZaGX> i think my debian is software store is broken
1360[09:47:51] <J_C> weedloser: when the new packages get rolling in sid and later in testing, we may see some people willing to make the juicier back ports :p
1364[09:48:38] <NetEcho> weedloser: mad about debian how?
1365[09:48:38] <weedloser> legend says testing is more stable than other distro point releases
1366[09:48:47] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: and privileged, everything up to 1024 is only usable by root. it guarantees that those ports are not used by users. so server:80 is always the official webserver, while server:8000 *may* be from one of the users.
1367[09:48:48] <weedloser> NetEcho: old software hurr durr
1368[09:49:11] <weedloser> remember when the xscreensaver guy had a blog post tantrum?
1369[09:49:12] <NetEcho> weedloser: oh yea makes sense
1370[09:49:18] <ZaZaGX> i always wanted Mac
1371[09:49:20] <ZaZaGX> a*
1372[09:49:24] <weedloser> and a few deadrat gnome people at ubuntu?
1373[09:49:31] <nvz> ZaZaGX: I'm sorry to hear that
1382[09:50:48] <NetEcho> Side note, KDE and GNOME run like crap on this laptop and I really don't like either. Gonna definitely install Xfce and LXDE and I'm wondering if MATE would be a good choice since it's Gnome 2 based but not sure if it's fairly heavy
1393[09:52:27] <weedloser> 4.12 hasn't aged well though
1394[09:52:28] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: keep calm and have a nice cup of tea :)
1395[09:52:35] <annadane> meh.
1396[09:52:41] <NetEcho> weedloser: I plan on installing a few to play with, So avoiding GNOME, KDE Plasma and I'm assuming Cinnamon since it's GNOME 3 based as well
1397[09:52:59] <weedloser> indeed
1398[09:53:26] <NetEcho> never thought I'd miss the old school KDE
1399[09:53:29] <weedloser> the best would be dwm or cwm :D but if the lust for bloat is too strong, xfce or mate i really like
1400[09:53:36] <J_C> NetEcho: I'm using KDE plasma right now. Works great. But if XFCE 4.14 ends up in the backports repo, I'll probably jump to that
1401[09:53:41] <NetEcho> once upon a time it was Damn KDE is too bloated I'll just use gnome lol.
1416[09:54:59] <J_C> NetEcho: Intel HD Graphics 620
1417[09:55:01] <weedloser> J_C: wrong! /s
1418[09:55:07] <annadane> it takes my computer > 30 seconds to start it, so beyond any other reasons... nope, sorry.
1419[09:55:25] <weedloser> ahahahhaha
1420[09:55:27] <NetEcho> J_C I'm guessing that probably beats my 2013/2014 era Radeon R4/R5 chipset
1421[09:55:36] <weedloser> systemd-analyze thinks my system boots in 33 seconds
1422[09:55:43] <weedloser> more like under 10
1423[09:55:46] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: i once imagined that as a block of office buildings with numbered rooms in them. each host is a building, depending on the desired service you have to enter the proper room. web stuff? please go to room 80, if you need safety, go to 443. alternatively you may go to room 8080, if 80 is busy.
1424[09:55:47] <J_C> NetEcho: okay yeah, now I'd see why ^^"
1425[09:55:53] <weedloser> 22.611s (firmware)
1426[09:55:56] <weedloser> ???
1427[09:56:16] <NetEcho> J_C yeah this laptop has been sitting in a corner for years so I decided it'd be the perfect thing for me to dick around with linux on
1428[09:56:24] <weedloser> 5 seconds in loader (grub delay) 2 in kernel, 2 usespace
1429[09:56:27] <weedloser> pretty quick goddamn.
1430[09:56:43] <weedloser> debian is supercharged
1431[09:56:50] <annadane> even xfce takes longer than it should, it's possible my hardware is just crap. but i've also abused it a lot
1432[09:56:51] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, right now I would love to have someone look over my apache2.conf and tell me if I should do something different.
1433[09:56:54] <NetEcho> Truth be told I only bought this piece of junk for $200 right before a work trip because I didn't want to bring the bulky ass piece of junk work laptop with me lol
1434[09:57:12] <J_C> NetEcho: in this case, I agree, plasma may not be suited for it. Best stick to the lightweight stuff / stuff that is better suited for the other hardware
1435[09:57:51] <J_C> weedloser: also, that mailing list with the xscreensaver author is... interesting.
1436[09:58:06] <NetEcho> so did xscreensaver ever get updated? lol
1442[09:58:45] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: what about some Etherpad session? collaborative live editing in the browser :)
1443[09:58:46] <NetEcho> hahaha
1444[09:58:47] <J_C> is it one of those situations where software authors try to take a leaf out of torvalds' book and think that cursing people out makes them seem cool and like they want results? :P
1445[09:59:00] <annadane> 5.43 is upstream
1446[09:59:04] <annadane> so in buster, yes
1447[09:59:06] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, I've never heard of Etherpad before.
1448[09:59:17] <NetEcho> oh 5.43 is current damn
1449[09:59:25] <NetEcho> that'd be a pretty funny troll
1450[09:59:44] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena, one of the few web2 thingies i really like > replaced-url
1451[10:00:18] *** Quits: Lady_Aleena (~Lady-Alee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1452[10:00:35] <annadane> debian does also have NMUs, so y'know... :P
1453[10:00:39] <J_C> every time a patch is backported to xscreensaver, JWZ cries out in frustration
1454[10:01:35] <NetEcho> out of curiosity why backport the patch instead of just updating the application?
1465[10:03:22] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, so Etherpad isn't something that is strictly on the net through a web site, I would have to install something.
1466[10:03:52] <annadane> NOTE: some distros, notably Debian, distribute a version of XScreenSaver that is years out of date. This is bad and they should feel bad. You should use distros that give you the option of keeping your software up to date, and that understand that "stable" and "ancient" are not the same thing.
1467[10:03:52] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: a web browser with javascript, yes ;)
1468[10:03:57] <annadane> from xscreensaver's website
1469[10:04:17] <NetEcho> lol
1470[10:04:24] *** Joins: President (164d51cc5c@replaced-ip)
1477[10:05:06] <NetEcho> I get not updating Xscreensaver much but why that long? You'd think every major release cycle of Debian would bring it closer to being up to date
1478[10:05:30] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, do you have an etherpad instance?
1479[10:05:32] <annadane> at worst it can surely be backported, lol. not like there's a lot to it
1480[10:05:42] <annadane> we do have backports, you know? it's not all 2 year old software
1482[10:06:04] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: you'd just have to download it if you'd want to host it yourself. and no, i don't even have webspace (not even locally atm :D)
1483[10:06:09] <NetEcho> yea it's strange that it got that far out of hand lol
1484[10:06:19] <NetEcho> I understand some apps being a year or two out of date
1485[10:06:19] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, neither do I.
1486[10:07:01] <EdePopede> gah. "502 Bad Gateway". that's what i like most on nginx :/
1487[10:07:25] <NetEcho> God the other day I was using rsync to offload files from my media server to a qnap that was given to me... even though the last update was only like a month ago to it Rsync on the qnap is 10 years out of date lol.
1488[10:07:59] <annadane> vlc updates in stable when upstream updates
1489[10:08:04] <annadane> one of the few exceptions
1490[10:08:33] <NetEcho> next time my old boss goes to retire his qnap for a newer one I'm going to give him crap and tell him to let me build him a nas box lol
1564[10:39:46] <jerry_> Well according to Android development you need a 64-bit operating system which seems weird to me since it's a Java app but that's what it says
1565[10:40:30] <jerry_> And I'd like to update my Android Studio and I won't update and also I can't reach certain other sites that seem to be ipv4
1567[10:40:57] <NetEcho> jerry_: in this day and age most OS's are going to be 64bit unless you're running very old hardware there is no reason to use 32bit
1568[10:40:59] <jerry_> Which would indicate that not working a sort of broken at least as far as ipv4 goes
1569[10:41:34] <jerry_> I was just pointing out to my Raspberry Pi which is a 32-bit can connect to both ipv4 and IPv6 and yet I Debian buster doesn't connect to ipv4
1570[10:41:52] <NetEcho> my buster install is on ipv4
1571[10:42:15] <NetEcho> you probably have to configure it to use ipv4
1572[10:42:43] <jerry_> well on my dubbing Buster I cannot very well IPv6 but can't connect it all ipv4 cannot ping Google using ipv4 although it does come back what's the right ipv4 address from the look up
1573[10:42:44] <NetEcho> somehow it's also got an ipv6 address even though my modem is set to ipv4 only... weird
1574[10:43:18] <NetEcho> jerry_: do ifconfig and see if it has an ipv4 address assigned
1575[10:43:42] <jerry_> Be right back
1576[10:44:33] <jerry_> As I recall it did have ipv4 addresses assigned to active interfaces but I'm booting up right now to check
1577[10:45:01] <ensamvarg> Greet you fine, #Debian channel.
1589[10:53:14] <jerry_> Ok I've been IRC on my phone I want to go ahead and bring up the IRC on my laptop and so I am going to disconnect and come right back
1719[12:03:22] <agris> it just doesn't make any sense. I can connect to osuosl just fine, but when apt tries to download from the osuosl mirror it takes 9 hours to download 65mb
1720[12:03:45] <agris> and I've got a Gentoo system that downloads from osuosl's gentoo mirror as well
1721[12:03:50] <agris> no problems
1722[12:03:51] <coruja> agris, if it's only for the source of one package, you may download it from the internet (at least just for troubleshooting purposes)
1723[12:04:12] <at0m> packages.debian.org ^
1724[12:04:17] <agris> coruja, I could just do that, but this is not the first time I've had this issue
1725[12:04:43] <agris> I'm determined to go to the bottom of it
1726[12:04:59] <coruja> agris, so in the end it's a devuan system, so i can't see how we could really help here
1728[12:05:50] <elm_> I have installed grub on usb stick
1729[12:05:53] <coruja> maybe someone with devuan experience may step in, else i guess devuan support is the better place to ask
1730[12:06:05] <elm_> but when I try to boot it complains that it cannot find isolinux.bin
1731[12:06:17] <elm_> package isolinux has been installed in the host system
1732[12:06:29] <elm_> but where to move isolinux.bin onto usbstick?
1733[12:06:32] <alkisg> agris: apt has a -o dpkg::show-http-headers option (I typed it wrong, google the exact name), which will tell you all the redirects it does, and the final url where it downloads the .deb from; if you get that final url and try wget, is it still slow?
1734[12:06:40] <elm_> or how to tell grub about the location of the file
1781[12:16:31] <elm_> the iso was dd-ed into hd(0,0)
1782[12:16:54] <alkisg> To a partition or a disk?
1783[12:17:02] <elm_> to a partition
1784[12:17:09] <elm_> it works without grub for the disk
1785[12:17:12] <alkisg> Yup, I don't think that's possible
1786[12:17:18] <elm_> it is
1787[12:17:43] <alkisg> So you have 2 MBRs, one inside the other? How would BIOS know about that?
1788[12:18:00] <alkisg> Linux and grub can do it, sure; but how would bios do it?
1789[12:18:28] <elm_> BIOS does it only when it is dd-ed to the whole disk i.e. /dev/sdi
1790[12:18:33] <elm_> and that works of course
1791[12:18:40] <elm_> otherwise grub has to do it
1792[12:18:41] <alkisg> Right; and chainloader means use bios
1793[12:20:34] <alkisg> elm_: it's about the same as people coming here and saying "I used dd to write a stick to /dev/sdb1, why doesn't that work?" and we tell them "dd to sdb, not sdb1"
1794[12:20:48] <alkisg> Even if you put grub to sdb1, the stick still won't load
1795[12:20:50] <elm_> we can look whether it works
1796[12:21:01] <elm_> but first we need to make grub chainload that partition
1797[12:21:06] <alkisg> Sure; I'm not 100% sure I'm right, but to the best of my knowledge, this won't work
1798[12:21:13] *** Quits: fkg (~fkg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1799[12:21:15] <elm_> I am not asking for more than make grub chainload a specific partition
1800[12:21:18] <elm_> so please help
1801[12:21:23] <alkisg> I think it does chainload it
1802[12:21:30] <alkisg> And then isolinux asks bios to fetch a sector
1819[12:27:33] <elm_> by the way what is the password to unlock the screen in debian live?
1820[12:28:09] <HyP3r> I recently upgraded my home server to Debian 10. Since then the server goes into standby every day and I don't know why. What could be the reason?
1844[12:36:18] <HyP3r> yes I have there network, audio and language settings and my username where I can click to restart, shutdown, ... (and go to settings)
1874[12:42:51] <alkisg> This tells debian live where to find the iso, mount it, and then search for /live/filesystem.squashfs inside it, and mount THAT as root
1880[12:43:41] <alkisg> elm_: it goes in: linux vmlinuz params here
1881[12:44:09] <alkisg> elm_: e.g. for Ubuntu I use: linux "(loop)/casper/$kernel" "file=/cdrom/preseed/$uname.seed" boot=casper "iso-scan/filename=$liveusb/ubuntu/$iname" noeject noprompt -- $extra_params; then
1882[12:44:13] <diogenes_> this is the params i use to boot debian live in multiboot usb: linux (loop)/live/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 boot=live findiso=$isofile noprompt noeject noswap config quiet splash
1883[12:44:25] <HyP3r> pasiz: ok I also set this (but I had to use Debian-gdm as suser) and I restarted gdm by "systemctl restart gdm.service"
2003[14:23:22] <bigterd> Debian 10, installed the old net tools, but oddly some network commands (depreciated or not) need explicit paths defined... Wtf?
2004[14:23:51] <bigterd> Routef doesn't need path, but route does? Weird?
2005[14:24:21] <BCMM> bigterd: are you just talking about /usr/sbin/ not being in the default $PATH for normal users?
2006[14:24:45] <BCMM> bigterd: or is this perhaps a root shell, and the problem is that su's behaviour has changed in Buster?
2007[14:26:10] <bigterd> Ive been only using su, never straight root login. Fresh install and getting the box setup. Been difficult. My most frustrating headache is setup the networking/routing, as all what I've used is now depreciated!
2008[14:26:41] <bigterd> Its never on the internet, I might just install a classic old version and just call it good.
2026[14:32:10] <ayekat> bigterd: note that `route` is part of the (rather deprecated) net-tools project, while `routef` is a wrapper around the ip-route(8) commands
2058[14:59:39] <twanny796> First I am going to sync my data files on the laptop with my account on the Debian server, then I will work on the backup from the Debian server.
2059[15:00:18] <twanny796> As you said sycn with WinSCP is a bit trikery.
2060[15:00:24] <ayekat> you could do it with only scp and a lot of scripting, but you'd eventually just end up reimplementing rsync - poorly
2061[15:00:49] <Bushmills> then you may perhaps want to have a look at rsync, which will avoid re-transmitting unchanged files
2078[15:07:40] <ayekat> yeah, I wouldn't go as far as recommending it to others - but for the "incremental backups" thing, it's good enough (TM) for me ^^
2083[15:09:30] <diogenes_> btrfs is can't handle outages, if the outage happens during some data writing, you can be left with a completely corrupted filesystem (happened to me once).
2084[15:09:46] <alkisg> elm_: what's the full cmdline that you're using?
2248[17:00:23] *** Quits: Rhuarc (~Rhuarc-@replaced-ip) (Quit: Not my fucking problem)
2249[17:00:23] <djp_> ok, strange question, but... is it possible to revert back to receiving a prompt for which text editor to use, like when crontab is run for the first time? i gather it writes the chosen text editor to a file some where but i have no idea where.
2319[17:42:29] <MySecondNick> Heya guys! I just installed Debian 10 (Buster) on my new notebook and it doesn't recognize my touchpad and my wireless card
2320[17:42:39] <MySecondNick> could someone in here please guide me as to how to enable those?
2321[17:43:41] <dvs> SwaggerArch, the mailing lists would be the best way to find out
2322[17:44:11] <_Cute_Kitty_> MySecondNick: the best way to fix that is always to google your laptop model, then Debian
2323[17:44:19] <_Cute_Kitty_> you'll likely find other people with the same problem, solved.
2325[17:44:30] <wr> MySecondNick, have you done any updates by now?
2326[17:44:33] <_Cute_Kitty_> other than that you could start by giving us your laptop model so we can do that for you too
2327[17:44:34] <SwaggerArch> dvs thanks..
2328[17:44:36] <PhotoJim> usually the wireless card issue is that you have to enable non-free firmware. and 802.11ac cards are still a problem in Linux. (I retrofitted an Intel 802.11ac card into my two laptops precisely for better Linux support.)
2329[17:44:37] <hitest> MySecondNick, sounds like you need non-free firmware.
2330[17:44:38] *** Quits: Telcoguy (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2331[17:45:18] <MySecondNick> _Cute_Kitty_ I Googled a bit but haven't found the answers myself... could I ask you to try to do that for me, if you have the time and the will to do so? I find it hard
2332[17:45:18] <wr> MySecondNick, brand/model?
2333[17:45:40] <MySecondNick> I fixed a problem where it said "<username> is not a part of the sudoers"
2344[17:46:48] <MySecondNick> so that's why it doesn't recognize it
2345[17:46:59] <dvs> MySecondNick, yes it is but it is not enabled by default.
2346[17:46:59] <MySecondNick> but I haven't found Linux drivers on Acer's website
2347[17:47:10] <MySecondNick> oh
2348[17:47:15] <dvs> !non-free
2349[17:47:16] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
2350[17:47:41] <MySecondNick> I can post my hwinfo output in my pastebin if that would help
2351[17:47:42] <dvs> !tell MySecondNick about non-free sources
2352[17:47:55] <MySecondNick> a pastebin*
2353[17:48:15] <dvs> MySecondNick, that would help
2354[17:48:30] <wr> MySecondNick, lspci, lsusb, you need to update sources list
2355[17:48:31] <hitest> MySecondNick, I have used the ISOs here. They include non-free firmware. This may help. replaced-url
2356[17:49:10] <_Cute_Kitty_> MySecondNick: just type sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list and add contrib non-free to the end of the sources
2357[17:49:16] <SwaggerArch> @wr hwinfo rocks if got installed
2358[17:49:38] <MySecondNick> _Cute_Kitty_ dvs to all of the lines?
2359[17:49:46] <MySecondNick> in that file?
2360[17:50:13] <PhotoJim> any line you see "main" on
2361[17:50:19] <PhotoJim> add " contrib non-free" to the end
2362[17:50:37] <dvs> MySecondNick, which file?
2363[17:50:58] <MySecondNick> dvs sources.list
2364[17:51:21] <dvs> MySecondNick, yes, add "contrib non-free" to the end of each line that end with "main"
2383[17:55:58] <wr> MySecondNick, after edit you apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
2384[17:56:14] <MySecondNick> ok I have done it
2385[17:56:37] <dvs> MySecondNick, do you have an internet connection with that machine?
2386[17:56:41] <MySecondNick> now I'm running "sudo apt-get update"
2387[17:56:43] <MySecondNick> dvs yes
2388[17:56:45] <dvs> ok
2389[17:57:10] <MySecondNick> well sudo apt-get upgrade doesn't install anything new
2390[17:57:22] <dvs> that's ok.
2391[17:57:29] <MySecondNick> (I did run sudo apt-get update prior to it)
2392[17:57:45] <PhotoJim> now there's a package you have to install to add the firmware. but now you can.
2393[17:57:54] <dvs> MySecondNick, what's the output of "lspci -nn" ?
2394[17:57:56] <PhotoJim> firmware-nonfree I think. have to check.
2395[17:58:12] <dvs> PhotoJim, wrong
2396[17:58:13] <PhotoJim> firmware-linux-nonfree
2397[17:58:33] <dvs> PhotoJim, still may not be that one.
2398[17:58:50] <PhotoJim> true. probably the right one. but not necessarily.
2399[17:58:53] <MySecondNick> dvs here is the output: replaced-url
2400[17:58:59] <SwaggerArch> Ran text editor as administrator privileges to make sure the sourcelist kept the following? To do so, open /etc/apt/sources.list with a text editor, and append "contrib non-free" to each source.
2401[17:59:28] <MySecondNick> my network is currently working as I am connected with a cable
2402[18:00:12] <MySecondNick> SwaggerArch yeah I opened it again, the changes are saved
2452[18:07:18] <wr> apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check -y (carefull on this one)
2453[18:07:26] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick touchpad issue if still around was to change it in the bios from advanvced to basic to get it to work. New laptops are having this issue as well as old laptops
2454[18:07:47] <MySecondNick> SwaggerArch what in BIOS
2455[18:07:51] <integfred> hi, in the libdrm package --enable-etnaviv-experimental is not enabled on most architectures, and this stops some stuff from building (mesa I think) because libdrm_etnaviv.pc is not found. I am using debian bullsye
2456[18:07:57] <MySecondNick> I boot in BIOS and then what?
2468[18:10:12] <wr> MySecondNick, apt commands have an order or you can remove thing you don't want
2469[18:10:31] <MySecondNick> wr so I can safely now run "sudo apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check"
2470[18:11:07] <MySecondNick> ?
2471[18:11:13] <wr> MySecondNick, basically you install, remove, and remove unwanted garbage and check stuff
2472[18:11:56] <MySecondNick> wr OK when I execute that command I get: "E: Could not open lock file /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
2473[18:11:56] <MySecondNick> "
2474[18:11:58] <wr> MySecondNick, somewhat like said depending on what you have installed and packages, but probably ok
2475[18:12:17] <MySecondNick> I did the command as sudo
2476[18:12:18] <SwaggerArch> sudo
2477[18:13:19] <MySecondNick> I ran "sudo apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check"
2483[18:14:21] <wr> Check that you have no other instances of apt running and close all terminals and open just one, if you want can su -
2484[18:14:42] <wr> synaptic off too
2485[18:15:21] <MySecondNick> OK wr I did "su -", became root and ran "apt-get autoremove && apt-get autoclean && apt-get purge && apt-get check"
2486[18:15:39] <MySecondNick> I will now restart my computer, enter BIOS, switch that setting to basic, log back in here and tell you guys if it worked
2529[18:32:15] <MySecondNick> OK so I installed that ic2-tools package and changed to Advanced in BIOS - my touchpad is still not working. I also switched to Basic - still, not working.
2530[18:32:19] <MySecondNick> any advice now wr?
2531[18:32:42] <MySecondNick> should I remove the package ic2-tools or can I keep it if it won't do me any harm (AFAIK)?
2663[19:04:02] <SwaggerArch> @wr we had to set the xinput for the drivers to correct buttons because they were mapped to button 2 or so on for incorrect mapping not sure if this works with debian to remap input or output of buttons on touchpad
2667[19:04:20] *** scott_ is now known as Guest8497
2668[19:04:34] <wr> SwaggerArch, on wiki says "In most cases, make sure you have xserver-xorg-input-libinput xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed, and not the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package."
2685[19:08:42] <MySecondNick> btw. I can try the last answer
2686[19:08:54] <MySecondNick> when I run "cd /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ; ls -la" I get
2687[19:09:05] <wr> MySecondNick, my guess on this would be for you to try things but by order but any change you make and don't need it you have to reverse it like for example if you install or edit files you need to put them back on wiki also says this "In most cases, make sure you have xserver-xorg-input-libinput xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed, and not the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package."
2697[19:11:42] <MySecondNick> wr let me ask you two questions: 1) Do you agree with me that deleting the stuff as suggested in the last answer in replaced-url
2698[19:11:48] <wr> MySecondNick, on that link configs need some edits, but also to test
2699[19:12:14] <MySecondNick> wr I did not get your last message
2700[19:12:16] <MySecondNick> what were you saying?
2703[19:13:52] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick you have installed driver just nothing works have you installed just xev and test the buttons to see the output on screen to see if it reconginizes the buttons in the small window?
2707[19:15:12] <wr> MySecondNick, do not remove anything just edit accordingly if it suits your setup besides packages, i cannot say much on that because all depends, normally for things to work you install firmware and also edit some files
2708[19:15:50] <wr> but these setups can be tricky when have no clue on what are doing and then is try/test
2709[19:16:04] <MySecondNick> well I can try the last answer
2710[19:16:07] <MySecondNick> in the link
2711[19:16:08] <MySecondNick> why not?
2712[19:16:23] <MySecondNick> or, maybe even better is
2713[19:16:29] <MySecondNick> what are the keyboard shortcuts?
2714[19:16:35] <MySecondNick> I can use the mouse 95% of the time
2715[19:16:38] <SwaggerArch> xbindingkeys will get link hold on from ubuntu
2716[19:16:42] <MySecondNick> and in the 5% I don't
2717[19:16:43] <wr> MySecondNick, i would just say this leave bios on defaults and only if needed after edits change a setting
2718[19:16:54] <MySecondNick> ok
2719[19:16:59] <MySecondNick> but let's be practical here
2745[19:20:24] <MySecondNick> because from there I can (hopefully) use the up/down arrow to select firefox and files and other things and I can navigate my entire computer with my keyboard alone
2822[19:34:48] <SwaggerArch> After 3 years of trying to fix this issue i finally found a solution. The problem is that there are too many touchpad drivers installed.
2823[19:34:49] <wr> MySecondNick, your on Gnome right?
2830[19:36:06] <d3c0> LtL: ok only init 6 or init 0 It's enough for me, Tell me, has this changed in Buster?
2831[19:37:10] <wr> MySecondNick, basically on that vid installs one driver and does one edit on stretch, on your hardware would be more or less the same, just need to know right one, maybe someone can confirm which one is
2832[19:37:18] <LtL> d3c0: i believe init will work but it's more a sysVinit method.
2837[19:38:45] <MySecondNick> finds SwaggerArch I am following the last answer on the replaced-url
2838[19:38:48] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick installed multiple touchpad drivers wanted to see if why his sudo wouldn't unistall the files and who had permissions to the drivers in order to delete the files
2840[19:39:19] <MySecondNick> but on the last command "sudo cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/" it gives me: "cp: cannot create regular file '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/': Not a directory"
2841[19:39:30] <d3c0> LtL: don't worry, thanks, I really just thought that my installation was wrong
2843[19:39:59] <wr> MySecondNick, on a cp cannot do files directories
2844[19:40:00] <MySecondNick> do I remove the trailing "/" to "fix" the cp command above?
2845[19:40:38] <MySecondNick> ok so what is the right command
2846[19:40:38] <wr> MySecondNick, first see that you cannot do copy a file to a diretory
2847[19:41:07] <MySecondNick> wr what?
2848[19:41:16] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick I see wanted to put back the vinilla file by doing a delete file and copy the orginal source file back to its location which wr was saying not ...
2849[19:41:44] <MySecondNick> I don't understand your messages
2850[19:41:56] <MySecondNick> quite literally
2851[19:42:01] <wr> MySecondNick, linux logic is that you have to understand what your are doing not just paste, or you get confused
2852[19:42:03] <MySecondNick> I can't interpet them
2853[19:42:10] <MySecondNick> wr ok
2854[19:42:12] <MySecondNick> I understand that
2855[19:42:14] <troulouliou_div2> hi is it possible with symbols to setup GDB to have access to source code of libc ?
2858[19:42:42] <MySecondNick> what did the author mean to say when he said "sudo cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/" here: replaced-url
2859[19:42:53] <MySecondNick> and what is the right command to do the job in that context?
2860[19:43:09] <wr> MySecondNick, if you go by try/paste and works, you will have lots troubles eventually... unless someone always send you commands
2862[19:43:11] <MySecondNick> I know this is "feed-me-the-solution" type of question, but I just want to get my touchpad enabled
2863[19:43:46] <MySecondNick> I've got no problem reading on command line and other things when I have free time and when all of my hardware actually works
2866[19:44:43] <wr> MySecondNick, everything on that directory that has that name to go to diretoty path
2867[19:45:01] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick I don't see a solution. I am following wr advice and not messing with the touchpad before we break the system..
2868[19:45:37] <SwaggerArch> MySecondNick 1487 users someone might have better answer
2869[19:45:51] <MySecondNick> ok I found out what the problem is
2899[19:50:39] <SwaggerArch> xserver-xorg-input-libinput 6Í0 trunk. The X.Org libinput driver is a thin wrapper around libinput and allows for libinput to be used for input devices in X. This driver can be used as as drop-in replacement for evdev and synaptics.
2900[19:50:41] <MySecondNick> OK so here is what I did
2901[19:50:48] <wr> MySecondNick, one example on a cp /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/*libinput* can throw all lines on that path file that have "x" to another directory, a tiny difference is another game
2902[19:50:50] <MySecondNick> I went to /etc/X11
2903[19:51:05] <MySecondNick> and "sudo mkdir xorg.conf.d"
2904[19:51:11] <MySecondNick> now I will copy that file
2905[19:51:12] <MySecondNick> and that is it
2906[19:51:29] <SwaggerArch> There you go copied file from input to the config file input of the x driver...
2907[19:51:37] <MySecondNick> there
2908[19:51:42] <MySecondNick> will reboot now and see what happens
2930[19:56:36] <MySecondNick> it turns out that that didn't help as well
2931[19:56:45] <MySecondNick> ...
2932[19:57:13] <MySecondNick> guess I can't have my touchpad on my new laptop
2933[19:57:25] <MySecondNick> I tried installing Ubuntu, it doesn't work on Ubuntu installer as well
2934[19:57:41] <MySecondNick> so it is a pretty good indicator it won't work in the actual Ubuntu
2935[19:57:53] <znull> hey guys, after my last update im on debian 10.0 every time i try to open Software Center or libreoffce they just close after 1 second, im not sure how to debug this
2955[20:02:07] <MySecondNick> For the 3rd time today
2956[20:02:17] <MySecondNick> God I hate my soul when I do sysadmin work
2957[20:02:22] <znull> diogenes_, ok, well i've removed yesterday libreoffice and when trying to reinstall it .. something is weird to many packages apt wants to install replaced-url
2958[20:02:48] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2959[20:03:38] <diogenes_> znull, wow, i have never seen so many packages to be installed, that one of the reasons i always prefer a clear install over upgrades.
2960[20:03:51] <diogenes_> takes less time, less headache.
2961[20:03:54] <MySecondNick> ok so I will do a reinstall wr
2986[20:14:19] <nvz> for the love of bob, will you people stop pressing enter so damn much.. I am sleeping over here and thats driving me nuts. Check this out.. I'm putting more than 4-6 words on a line, and using various punctuation marks. How cool is that?
2993[20:16:48] <martigan> Hey all, is there a way to manually set the CPU throttleing temp? I have been trying to figure out a "Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" errors for a week now and I think its getting throttled to early? I'm at around 40c when I get the errors. The fan kicked on when I was able to get it to 45c one time but it never comes on before getting seeing the error in dmesg. Sensors never
2994[20:16:54] <martigan> shows the temp above 45c.
3001[20:20:27] <nvz> martigan: thats not typical usage of frequency scaling, its more often used for power management based on demand.. but there is a userspace govenor that you can configure manually
3010[20:23:06] <nvz> martigan: depends on whether or not you are trying to arbitrarily make a temp based freq govenor (this isn't how it works) or figure out what is as you feel, throttling your cpu unecessarily
3011[20:23:49] <nvz> cpus these days /do/ have thresholds for temp and scale back.. particularly in mobiles.. but this isnt normal kernel based scaling and the thresholds are more than double 40-45C
3016[20:28:05] <martigan> I want to figure out what is throttleing it and fix it the correct way. Not just make a temp based freq govenor. Someone said I may need to repaste but I feel thats not correct as the temp is at a steady 40c and the fan kicks on at around 60c which seems normal to me?
3017[20:29:04] <martigan> How do I find what is throttling it?
3024[20:33:05] <diogenes_> martigan, start with: sudo powertop and go to devices section.
3025[20:33:12] <nvz> there are 3 possible ways a cpu is throttled with varying degrees of control.. the kernel/userland (software), and you can fully control that.. the bios/uefi/efi (firmware) and you can /maybe/ control that at boot time.. and on the die itself in microcode or such, and you have absolutely no control over that
3059[20:46:56] <nardev> guys, i have one very simple question. What is the difference between nvidia-driver package in the non-free repos and linux drivers from nvidia page ?
3060[20:47:25] <humpled> oh sorry, my ancient film references have been overwritten by brand recognition :|
3061[20:47:38] <nvz> nardev: one is managed by the package manager and patched for Debian and the other isn't.
3062[20:47:47] <nvz> nardev: one is suported here, the other isnt
3063[20:48:14] <nardev> nvz, but in essence i should get same quality driver in both cases?
3098[20:56:18] <nardev> Also, one issue i have, i don't know if it is related to my mouse, gtk3 or graphics card/drivers. I have logitech MX mouse and there is a noticeable 'glitch' when i move it. Also, at the same time, i started using bit 4K monitor so i don't know if that is one of the reasons because the mouse resolution is not that big so it becomes noticeable.
3099[20:56:44] *** Quits: b00^ (~void@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3100[20:56:45] <nvz> martigan: which since you say the temps seem to be in a 40-45C range, which is normal, barely significant range for even turning on a fan.. it could be an unhandled MCE due to some kinda bug with your specific hardware
3102[20:57:39] <nvz> nardev: that could very well be a gfx issue depending on how its handling the cursor.. most gfx cards have hardware cursor options
3113[21:00:55] <nardev> nvz, it's constant, the system is minimal gnome, fresh install, nothing running in bg.
3114[21:01:42] <nvz> nardev: if its constant than its not likely do to IO bound processing hanging up the interrupts, but just due to the method of drawing the cursor
3147[21:14:54] <tdn> nvz, I am using winff right now. And it is fine except for the following: 1) when adding files, I seem to have to add one file at a time. Now whole folders or folder trees. 2) it does not convert in parallell. Even when I configure it to do that it takes one file at a time and use only one core for ffmpeg. 3) It does not allow output to a similar folder pattern. Either all files go in same folder no matter
3148[21:15:00] <tdn> where they came from or all files go to the exact same file as they were read on. (not good if they all come from read only network mount, etc.)
3152[21:16:31] <martigan> nvz: There isn't any other errors on either side of it. Just the same repeating clock throttled then speed normal over and over.
3153[21:16:34] <martigan> termbin.com/v7aj
3154[21:16:43] *** Quits: grobi1 (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3155[21:17:36] <nvz> tdn: soundconverter seems to suggest it can preserve metadata
3156[21:17:41] <martigan> BTW, thanks for termbin.com. Thats going in te quiver for sure.
3157[21:17:44] <nvz> ,i soundconverter
3158[21:17:45] <judd> Package soundconverter (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: GNOME application to convert audio files into other formats. Version: 3.0.1-2; Size: 107.3k; Installed: 808k; Homepage: replaced-url
3160[21:19:01] <nvz> martigan: I use it a lot in here cause things like pastebinit are optional but netcat is typically installed on most debian installs
3161[21:19:48] <tdn> nvz, thanks for the tip. Trying it
3162[21:20:23] <martigan> and you can just curl the results. It's legit. Good for people like me that need help from people like you. lol :p
3164[21:21:07] <nvz> martigan: those errors are contradictory.. the only messages around the ones saying the threshold was exceeded are ones saing the temp/speed is normal within 1sec of saying the threshold was exceeded
3165[21:21:53] <nvz> [Sat Aug 24 09:39:43 2019] CPU1: Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 1) [Sat Aug 24 09:39:43 2019] CPU1: Core temperature/speed normal
3166[21:21:58] <nvz> that doesn't make any sense
3167[21:22:02] <martigan> Youre telling me. lol.
3168[21:22:08] *** Quits: b00^^ (~void@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3169[21:22:21] <nvz> I'm willing to bet if you'd done it without the -T it'd show that was a instantaneous thing..
3174[21:22:41] <martigan> Is there a better way to actually tell if it is being throttled?
3175[21:23:19] <nvz> martigan: well, we already checked for messages about the gov, thats not being changed.. and we checked for throttling messages, and these are the only ones..
3184[21:32:44] <martigan> You're making me feel guilty for taking your time man. lol I always feel guilty like I haven't looked hard enough for the fix yet but I have been looking for a week now and the only solutions I remember seeing were how to make the errors stop showing up but not find the actual issue.
3185[21:34:03] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3192[21:37:55] <nvz> martigan: this is a little well.. whatever.. heh.. it works replaced-url
3193[21:38:35] <nvz> martigan: you could save that set it chmod +x and then run it with the watch command to continuously output the settings live from the kernel across all cores
3194[21:39:04] <nvz> martigan: in effect giving you monitoring of the change in cpu scaling options
3215[21:51:46] <nvz> but you can use that in a terminal to see if the gov or max freq is changing.. the current freq should change anyhow based on load typically unless you are using a scheduler that keeps it balls to the wall
3216[21:52:31] *** Quits: ayekat (~ayekat@replaced-ip) (Quit: watching this channel in stealth mode now)
3223[21:56:56] <martigan> Thanks so much. So now I will just monitor with this and see if they drop when I see the error in dmesg? And if not then I'll go from there.
3224[21:57:09] <martigan> Its working for me perfectly.
3331[22:17:00] <nvz> martigan: *shrugs* it seems like there is a bug there somewhere to me.. it shouldnt be saying its over and its fine in the same "breath"
3337[22:18:24] <martigan> It hasn't given the warning in 30 minutes now either. Normally it's every 10 so who knows. I would like to find something that is fixable. lol As opposed to just bein like *meh* ignore those.
3338[22:18:35] <ezcape> nvz: No I didnt. Selected KDE.
3339[22:18:46] <nvz> ezcape: during the install?
3340[22:18:58] <ezcape> nvz: kde install hasnt got a display manager
3341[22:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1499
3342[22:19:04] <nvz> it does..
3343[22:19:08] <nvz> I just proved it
3344[22:19:15] <ezcape> my netinstall didnt
3345[22:19:35] <nvz> did you actually have network available during install?
3346[22:19:37] <nvz> did it actually install KDE?
3347[22:19:45] <ezcape> can install Gentoo, so I should be able to install Debian :p
3348[22:19:47] <nvz> the netinst contains a base system and can't get the rest without network
3349[22:19:53] <ezcape> yeah
3350[22:20:21] <ezcape> wifi entered the pw
3351[22:20:50] <nvz> somewhere you did something wrong.. the installer would've gotten task-kde-desktop which depends directly on sddm, and kde-standard which depends on kde-plasma-desktop which recommends sddm
3352[22:20:56] <nvz> so you had sddm by two chains
3353[22:21:41] <nvz> if you didn't get it you did something wrong or there was an error you overlooked
3354[22:21:47] <ezcape> the install is very simple. no way I did something wrong, unless I had to tick off for installing a DM
3355[22:22:09] <nvz> no, the tasksel selecting KDE would've pulled task-kde-desktop
3356[22:22:23] <nvz> the other possibility is you have a graphics issue that prevented it from starting
3374[22:23:59] <nvz> dpkg, why isn't libwtdbomysql-dev in testing?
3375[22:23:59] <dpkg> libwtdbomysql-dev is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
3376[22:24:00] <kevinnn> right... so how can I get this installed on buster?
3377[22:24:12] <nvz> karlpinc: mysql was dropped for mariadb could be the issue
3378[22:24:22] <nvz> kevinnn: rather
3379[22:24:46] <kevinnn> nvz: okay, well is there a mariadb alternative?
3380[22:24:49] <nvz> kevinnn: in any case, a -dev package is just headers, you could install it from stretch or even build a chroot for your development
3387[22:25:38] <judd> (info <packagename> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>]) -- Show the short description and some other brief details about a package in the specified release and architecture. By default, the current stable release and amd64 are used.
3414[22:30:34] <ezcape> ||/ Name Version Architecture Description
3415[22:30:36] <nvz> martigan: there are 4 main types of bot in this channel debhelper, an eggdrop bot for channel maint, it doesn't talk to you.. piggy which is logging for pisg which only talks to you if sussudio feels like being a smart ass.. then there is judd the Ultimate Debian Database bot which is powered by supybot, and the dpkg, apt, dselect which are in that order backups of our factoid bots powered by infobot
3419[22:30:53] <nvz> ezcape: you have sddm, like I said, it probably just isnt starting due to an issue on your system
3420[22:31:01] <BCMM> !paste
3421[22:31:01] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
3422[22:31:18] <ezcape> nvz: then there is a bug in the graphical installer
3423[22:31:28] <nvz> no, there isnt
3424[22:31:36] <ezcape> lol
3425[22:32:04] <ezcape> have you used that? it's difficult to do something wrong
3426[22:32:22] <nvz> the graphical installer is not responsible for whether or not your system has supported hardware.. it comes without warranty as permitted by applicable law
3427[22:32:38] <nvz> I've used it more times than I can count in almost 18 years
3428[22:32:47] <ezcape> I did the exatcly same install with XFCE and got a DM!
3429[22:32:50] <nvz> though it hasn't been around that long.. the graphical installer
3444[22:34:24] <nvz> ZaZaGX: no, I am just a user like the rest of you.
3445[22:34:30] <ZaZaGX> ohhh
3446[22:34:58] <nvz> ezcape: because personally if like you say, the lightdm works fine on the same hardware when you install XFCE and sddm doesn't that IS a problem..
3447[22:35:19] <nvz> ezcape: but if you wanna look into this we gotta get past the whole bugs with the installer and you don't have a DM thing..
3448[22:36:07] <nvz> if X starts at all, either directly with something like xinit or via another DM then its not a hardware issue
3449[22:36:23] <nvz> its more likely whatever the problem is, is in either SDDM itself or perhaps systemd
3450[22:36:59] <nvz> ezcape: systemctl status sddm | nc termbin.com 9999
3454[22:37:45] <nvz> well if startx works without errors then its not the kernel or xorg causing the problem
3455[22:39:08] <ezcape> I will reinstall with XFCE anyway
3456[22:39:09] <nvz> but I am willing to bet dollars to pesos that if I were to fire up virtualbox right now and run the netinstall and choose KDE it'll work fine
3457[22:39:24] <nvz> so if you're not interested in looking into this, neither am I
3458[22:39:55] <Habbie> can anybody recommend a GarageBand-like app for debian? something that can take input from a MIDI keyboard and has a bunch of instruments, etc.
3484[22:46:07] <nvz> apparently cheesetracker is so old and long abandoned not even google can suggest an alternative :P
3485[22:46:20] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3486[22:46:46] *** Quits: nardev (~nardev@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3487[22:46:56] <kevinnn> okay so now I am having a really odd issue. I spun up a VM running stretch and am trying to use the following package: libwt-dev
3488[22:47:07] <kevinnn> but I also need to use libssh-dev too
3489[22:47:17] <kevinnn> for some reason installing one will remove the other
3490[22:47:23] <kevinnn> this didn't happen before
3491[22:47:30] <nvz> kevinnn: a vm is overkill for development a chroot is usually sufficient
3492[22:47:48] <kevinnn> maybe I shouldn't have reverted to buster
3493[22:47:49] <nvz> kevinnn: however if you are running into issues like this you should seriously consider a plan for updating your codebase
3494[22:48:13] <nvz> cause sounds to me like you're depending on things that arent going to be used in the future
3495[22:48:18] <kevinnn> I know I should, but in the mean time there's got to be a way for me to have these both installed
3496[22:48:51] <nvz> kevinnn: a chroot is simplest, debootstrap can get you up and running in no time.. but when a project has this issue you either change the code or you pickup and maintain the dependencies
3497[22:49:15] <kevinnn> but this was working just fine prior to my upgrade to buster
3498[22:49:22] <kevinnn> I must have done something...
3499[22:49:37] <nvz> kevinnn: I talked recently with some guys working on a new browser called nomad, they are real GNU people who like guile and guix.. they had to pickup development of emacsy, a dependency of their project cause the development was stalled
3501[22:50:29] <nvz> kevinnn: you did, you failed to realistically code on something that is maintained.. and now you have the dilemma of either also develop/maintian the dependencies or use an old chroot and build software nobody will be able to use in the future
3502[22:51:02] <Habbie> kevinnn, libwt-dev and libssh-dev depend on different openssl versions; you cannot have -dev for different openssl versions installed at the same time (on debian)
3503[22:51:11] <Habbie> kevinnn, debian stretch shipping a mix of openssl version is a big pain
3506[22:51:20] <Habbie> kevinnn, buster fixed that
3507[22:51:45] <nvz> witty has been stagnant, and was dropped if you really wanna keep using it, you need to head on over to OFTC and talk to folk in #debian-mentors about sponsoring you maintaining it
3525[22:55:58] <nvz> steeee: lazurus is online now, you can /msg them
3526[22:56:00] <ZaZaGX> wow, i was on the oftc, it has 600 ish nicks
3527[22:56:44] <martigan> nvz: Man I think it is a bug, put the cpu under a load after getting tired of waiting for the error and immediatly was able to produce the same results, throttling error and then all clear message in the same second.
3528[22:57:20] <steeee> Auto-Message: I'm using a query blocking script, please wait while i whitelist you!
3529[22:57:49] <martigan> Have had the CPU under a load now for about 10 minutes temp is at 75c and using your script I'm not seeing any throttling.
3530[22:58:55] <nvz> martigan: yeah well I assumed as soon as you mentioned it that it was a bug even before seeing the errors cause I been using my machine for like 4hrs now and it was running all night while I slept before that.. and I haven't seen my CPU rise above 40C or the fan above 0RPM all day
3531[22:59:21] <nvz> martigan: and I'm on a 4th gen Core i5
3532[22:59:47] *** Quits: APexil (~you@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3533[23:00:10] <ZaZaGX> wow, thats pretty HOT in fahrenheit
3534[23:00:56] <martigan> nvz: Ok great, problem solved? I mean, well kinda. I would like to figure out how to report/fix/patch idk?
3535[23:02:06] <nvz> ZaZaGX: cpu specs usually consider hot around 75-95C and max spec around 95-115C
3536[23:02:18] <nvz> in computer terms 35-45C is cool
3554[23:09:45] <nvz> martigan: well I would guess you'd want to file a bug against the kernel and you'd need to get sufficient information on the issue
3555[23:10:58] <nvz> martigan: however for me, I like to try narrow the bug down before reporting a kernel issue.. were it me, I'd try stretch's 4.9.0 and sid's 5.2.0 kernel and see if I can reproduce the issue in either of those
3556[23:11:18] <nvz> martigan: you can manually fetch the kernels from packages.debian.org and install them with dpkg or gdebi
3573[23:16:10] <nvz> martigan: point here is you dont want to have a stretch/sid sources.list line to screw up your system.. you should be able to manually install either kernel without messing up your system if you fetch it manually
3575[23:16:51] <nvz> martigan: and they won't conflict so you'll still have your buster 4.19 kernel avaliable in grub.. though it may put it in a submenu I think is the default behavior now
3576[23:16:59] <martigan> and I dont need to edit sources.list when switching if I fetch it manually?
3577[23:17:25] <nvz> martigan: yes, do NOT touch your sources.list just fetch the package manually from packages.debian.org in your browser
3597[23:23:25] <martigan> I have done it before with sudo nautilus, I didn't know it was a bad idea though. lol
3598[23:23:28] <nvz> deadmarshal: however if not just use with -o loop use -o loop,uid=1000,gid=1000 that will make the mount owned by user 1000 which is typically the first user on a system
3599[23:23:31] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3600[23:23:49] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3601[23:23:50] <nvz> martigan: its dangerous.. and nautilus/caja have special tools for this, but its still not a good idea
3602[23:23:59] <deadmarshal> nvz: nice I'll do that
3614[23:29:11] <useretail> when i try to execute vlc from kde menu, something shows for a second in the taskbar and then disappears. vlc from command line works, how to debug?
3615[23:29:39] <dak> maybe see how the command is being called from kde and start there/
3616[23:29:39] <nvz> martigan: because mom said so
3617[23:30:22] <useretail> dak, i checked, it's /usr/bin/vlc, but running this from console works. anything else?
3618[23:30:55] <nvz> useretail: try see if you can either kill the panel and start that in a terminal to see if it gives output or attach and strace to it
3619[23:31:10] <nvz> useretail: also stop saying console if you mean terminal
3620[23:31:27] <nvz> the fact that kde calls the terminal emulator konsole doesn't help :P