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• 8[00:02:53] <Bushmills> No, you're not talking not much (word count), your pressing lots of carriage returns :)
• 9[00:03:42] <ayekat> heh - I've got the second-highest character count per line (if ignoring judd) ^^
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• 16[00:10:44] <Nozzzle> hello, I couldn't start virt manager and got this error: replaced-url
• 17[00:11:23] <dvanmosselbeen> The girl stop talking... :-P
• 18[00:11:41] <dvanmosselbeen> Actually, the girl left the world :D
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• 20[00:12:59] <dvanmosselbeen> Nozzzle: Checked the paste, but i'm afraid this is out of my knowledges.
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• 30[00:16:20] <Bushmills> Nozzzle: last line indicates error with options to iptables: "--jump ACCEPT:"
• 31[00:16:55] <Bushmills> i suppose the message "no chain/target/match by that name" relates to that
• 32[00:16:57] <Nozzzle> dvanmosselbeen, thank you all the same
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• 40[00:18:36] <rohanrhu> hi
• 41[00:18:42] <dvanmosselbeen> Nozzzle: You are welcome, like all these goodies in the open source or GNU/Linux world :)
• 42[00:18:49] <Nozzzle> Bushmills, how can I fix it?
• 43[00:18:53] <dvanmosselbeen> rohanrhu: Hi you :-)
• 44[00:19:02] <Bushmills> execute iptables -t filter -nvL and look what is actually there
• 45[00:19:35] <dvanmosselbeen> Nozzzle: My wild guess is that the "source" doesn't match the "destination". But that's a wild guess without knowing with what your are busy
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• 47[00:19:44] <Bushmills> put in the name of the chain you meant to jump to
• 48[00:19:57] <rohanrhu> i installed libc-dbg but there are no sources anywhere
• 49[00:20:27] <dvanmosselbeen> rohanrhu: dpkg -L libc-dbg ??
• 50[00:20:36] <Habbie> rohanrhu, -dbg does not contain sources; for sources, use apt-get source PACKAGENAME
• 51[00:20:38] <Nozzzle> Bushmills, I have no idea what chain means here. just like I dont know why I take the burden of using a VM
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• 53[00:20:47] <rohanrhu> there is only a dir: /usr/lib/debug/.build-id
• 54[00:21:02] <rohanrhu> and some dirs named in two chars
• 55[00:21:09] <rohanrhu> inside .build-id dir
• 56[00:21:13] <Nozzzle> I ran the command and got chain lines with inout output and forward
• 57[00:21:26] <rohanrhu> dvanmosselbeen: im looking
• 58[00:21:41] <dvanmosselbeen> Nozzzle: dpkg -L <package_name> should show you the content of that <package>
• 59[00:22:04] <Bushmills> Nozzzle: well, i can't say "open file xyuz with an editor, move to line 17 and remove the colon at the end of word 8 in that line"
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• 61[00:22:16] <Nozzzle> Bushmills replaced-url
• 62[00:22:32] <Bushmills> i just see the error you pasted, and have to speculate what could cause it
• 63[00:22:37] <rohanrhu> Habbie: methinks, apt-get source downloads source for package, should i give downloaded dir to gdb?
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• 66[00:23:40] <Bushmills> see, you attempt to jump to "ACCEPT:" - but there's no "ACCEPT"
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• 69[00:24:45] <Bushmills> maybe you don't intend to jump. Maybe you intend to jump to a chain with a different name. How should I know?
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• 71[00:25:37] <Bushmills> But fact is, you attempt to jump to a chain which a: doesn't seem to exist, and b: has a funny name
• 72[00:25:41] <Nozzzle> Bushmills, not ranting related to your responses, thank you for helping me out of this. I didnt do anything other than regular starting
• 73[00:25:42] <rohanrhu> dvanmosselbeen: dpkg -L libc6-dbg output: there are many file like /usr/lib/debug/.build-id/fb/7433709a8cb7b1f30f831c08b0305be8fdc6ec.debug
• 74[00:25:59] <Nozzzle> starting the vm manager with virsh command, but this time came the error
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• 78[00:28:23] <rohanrhu> i may found it :D
• 79[00:28:39] <dvanmosselbeen> rohanrhu: :)
• 80[00:29:05] <Nozzzle> ok, the program somehow jumps to a chain that doesn't match. how can I avoid that to happen?
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• 83[00:29:58] <Nozzzle> does it help to restart everything? because it never happened before, and before is a long time here
• 84[00:30:10] <rohanrhu> i had been installed glibc-source
• 85[00:30:39] <rohanrhu> i looked dpkg -L dpkg-source and there are something in /usr/source
• 86[00:30:53] <rohanrhu> */usr/src
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• 89[00:33:10] <Habbie> rohanrhu, getting gdb to show source based on a package and its -dbg is a good question - i'd like to know the answer too :)
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• 92[00:34:02] <rohanrhu> Habbie: libc6-dbg is installed but gdb can't find libc functions sources
• 93[00:34:37] <Habbie> rohanrhu, i understand the problem; i don't know the solution
• 94[00:34:55] <rohanrhu> Habbie: :/ thank you
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• 96[00:35:31] <abbie> hey Habbie
• 97[00:35:52] <rohanrhu> when i step into printf() gdb error: ioputs.c no such file or directory
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• 99[00:37:31] <Nozzzle> as expected..solved after shutdown-restart
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• 103[00:39:34] <Nozzzle> thank you for your replies!
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• 127[00:58:15] <dannyboy35> Anyone here use refind
• 128[00:58:34] <Bushmills> do you?
• 129[00:58:48] <dannyboy35> Yes
• 130[00:58:56] <Bushmills> then "yes, somebody does"
• 131[00:58:57] <dannyboy35> I have a question about it
• 132[00:59:22] <dannyboy35> Does anyone know if im able to edit kernel parameters with it?
• 133[00:59:34] <dannyboy35> Or if I can still get access to grub
• 134[00:59:55] <Bushmills> sorry, I don't know whether anyone kniows.
• 135[01:00:05] <Bushmills> I'd have to ask everybody first
• 136[01:00:23] <dannyboy35> Your not any help or funny
• 137[01:00:42] <Bushmills> I am answering your questions
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• 145[01:19:43] <annadane> !anyone
• 146[01:19:44] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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• 149[01:20:31] <martigan> Whats popcon?
• 150[01:21:10] <martigan> Seriously, not trolling.
• 151[01:21:11] <annadane> popularity contest
• 152[01:21:20] <dvanmosselbeen> Stuff to eat and which make you fat :-P
• 153[01:21:25] <annadane> it lets the devs know what packages to include on the first (?) cd/dvd's
• 154[01:21:38] <annadane> that's a terrible answer, i don't actually really know
• 155[01:21:42] <dvanmosselbeen> +1 for annadane
• 156[01:21:42] <annadane> !popcon
• 157[01:21:42] <dpkg> popcon is, like, the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at replaced-url
• 158[01:22:08] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 159[01:22:35] <martigan> Does anyone here use popcon?
• 160[01:22:50] <dvanmosselbeen> Installing fluxbox on my Raspberry, wondering why fluxbox depend on kodi-bin. Kodi has nothing to do at all with Fluxbox. That sounds weird
• 161[01:22:51] * martigan trolling
• 162[01:23:18] <annadane> !lart martigan
• 163[01:23:18] <dvanmosselbeen> martigan: Yes, i do, but hell, i'm a martian ...
• 164[01:23:18] * dpkg hauls martigan up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles
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• 166[01:24:08] <dvanmosselbeen> :-P
• 167[01:24:43] <dvanmosselbeen> Don't do to much geek things, i'm watching the Big Bang Theory :-D
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• 169[01:26:08] * martigan stuffs socks in his back pockets granting +1000 spank defense
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• 181[01:29:16] <nezZario> Hey, out of curiosity, does the real "sh" shell exist in debian packages at all?
• 182[01:29:23] <nezZario> Bourne Shell
• 183[01:29:31] <nezZario> I just wanted to see what the difference was and poke at it.
• 184[01:30:02] <nezZario> However I can't find it (again just curious). I may try to compile it later but thought I'd ask, it's rather difficul to search for (or I'm just dumb, take your pick)
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• 190[01:36:50] <ayekat> looking at the wikipedia comment section for the bourne shell, it appears people are ripping each others' heads off when it comes to determining which one is the "real" bourne shell
• 191[01:37:12] <ayekat> and the given links to the solaris website appear all to be dead
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• 193[01:38:02] <alphazulu> why if there's an upgrade from linux-image-5.2.0-2 to linux-image-5.2.0-2 does it say there's an "ABI compatible upgrade pending" ?
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• 197[01:40:02] <dvanmosselbeen> ayekat: That sounds so familiar in the GNU/Linux world, to rip off everyone's face :-(
• 198[01:41:06] <dvanmosselbeen> Solaris doesn't exist anymore btw ... Since a few years, Oracle, these bastards, dropped Solaris...
• 199[01:41:40] <dvanmosselbeen> Bah, Solaris was running sooooo sssslllllloooooreplaced-url
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• 202[01:41:52] <ayekat> ah, didn't think of that - yeah, that would explain why the links have gone away
• 203[01:42:22] <dvanmosselbeen> Solaris has been renamed, forked since, but that i didn't follow.
• 204[01:42:50] <dvanmosselbeen> And they probably lost that "Solaris" spirit on the run.
• 205[01:43:21] <dvanmosselbeen> Damn, i used to use the latest Solaris, 11.
• 206[01:44:07] <dvanmosselbeen> But yah, what can you do if an "enterprise" decide to wipe a project... Damn Oracle bastards ...
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• 217[01:55:31] <deleuze6> hi all, I'm looking for a straightforward path to running a DNS-over-TLS server. I have my own DNS server running locally on my server; I want to be able to expose this DNS server to my devices around the world (via SSH tunnels, presumably).
• 218[01:56:02] <deleuze6> now, I could do this with socat and various combinations of forwarding port 53.
• 219[01:56:12] <lupus> how do i make changes to /etc/sysctl.conf persistent ? before upgrading to debian buster, the settings was applied at boot, but now i have to type systctl -p
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• 221[01:57:07] <deleuze6> but one of my devices is an Android device that does not like having me do this, and would rather I use 'dns-over-tls' instead.
• 222[01:57:57] <deleuze6> In particular, if I have socat forwarding port 53 when I want to activate Android Wifi tethering, it dies.
• 223[01:58:42] <deleuze6> so I can kill this every time I want Android Wifi tethering (and have to remember when I restart it when I turn it off, and oh did I mention that sends all of the DNS requests from my tethered devices to a bad place?)
• 224[01:58:57] <deleuze6> but that is not a good solution, so, hence.
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• 226[01:59:49] <swift110> hey all
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• 232[02:02:38] <deleuze6> So, is there a DNS-over-HTTPS or (better) DNS-over-TLS server somewhere that I can use? This should be a debian package!
• 233[02:02:48] <deleuze6> (it seems so obvious)
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• 237[02:05:23] <Bushmills> dvanmosselbeen: fluxbox deps: replaced-url
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• 239[02:06:02] <dvanmosselbeen> Bushmills: I think i screwed Sid a bit, but just a tiny bit. Don't ask
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• 242[02:06:44] <dvanmosselbeen> Using --force for anything, that sounds not good :-(
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• 244[02:08:25] <Bushmills> deleuze6: openvpn or similar tunnel/vpn
• 245[02:08:27] <nvz> lupus: you should probably be using udev rules for whatever you're doing
• 246[02:08:54] <deleuze6> Bushmills: no, that is what I'm trying to avoid, categorically
• 247[02:09:09] <deleuze6> Bushmills: what I want is a 'DNS-over-TLS' server to run on my debian box
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• 250[02:09:30] <dvanmosselbeen> Bushmills: Upgrading a forgetten Jessie box :-P
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• 252[02:09:50] <deleuze6> then on my android device I point it to localhost and have a tunnel (socat) from localhost:853 to localhost:853 on the debian box
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• 254[02:11:13] <deleuze6> now, the instructions I find on the web suggest that I should run nginx (I already run Apache) and set up DNS-over-HTTPS and then do some funky stuff to get DNS-over-TLS to leverage the DNS-over-HTTPS server
• 255[02:11:24] <Bushmills> what you want, using your nameserver from any device, regardless of how they connect to the net, is what I use, including on Androids devices,.
• 256[02:11:40] <Bushmills> but I use the solution you want to avoid, for whatever reasons
• 257[02:11:53] <deleuze6> Bushmills: here are the reasons.
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• 261[02:12:28] <deleuze6> (noting that I know how to forward port 53 from my android device to my nameserver, and that works just fine thanks! -- except that when I want to tether it breaks)
• 262[02:12:53] <deleuze6> (1) I run a 'VPN' on my android device already (hint: it's tor)
• 263[02:13:06] <deleuze6> and android does not allow more than one of these.
• 264[02:13:34] <deleuze6> (2) when I turn on my wifi 'hotspot' it carps if I'm doing anything fancy with localhost:53.
• 265[02:13:48] <nvz> you could run the tor from your server you vpn to :D
• 266[02:13:56] <deleuze6> (which means that I need to kill the socat processes before I tether)
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• 269[02:14:19] <deleuze6> nvz: there are a lot of reasons not to tunnel to a faraway tor
• 270[02:14:28] <deleuze6> circuit isolation is one of them
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• 272[02:14:45] <nvz> yeah, there are a lot of reasons not to use tor, which is why I've not used it thus far
• 273[02:14:58] <deleuze6> nvz: disagree.
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• 275[02:15:41] <nvz> I hadn't tried it in a long time, but last I did it was slow.. very slow.. and it resulted in things changing languages and such cause it couldnt even tell what country I was in
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• 277[02:15:49] <alphazulu> i thought an "ABI compatible upgrade" is only when a major version change of system libc is changed?
• 278[02:16:07] <deleuze6> Now, our friends at Google have given us a great privacy tool (really. they don't mind giving us privacy when it keeps other people from getting the data that they believe are rightfully theirs!), DNS-over-TLS support.
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• 280[02:16:20] <_Cute_Kitty_> what is the default calculator package in debian/
• 281[02:16:30] <annadane> uh... xcalculator?
• 282[02:16:35] <Bushmills> bc
• 283[02:16:41] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: bash, bc ?
• 284[02:16:55] <annadane> yeah, bash
• 285[02:16:56] <deleuze6> annadane: think you mean 'xcalc'
• 286[02:17:23] <lupus> nvz: i have net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-iptables = 0, net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-arptables = 0 so that my virtual machines can use the internet
• 287[02:17:33] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: if you mean a graphical calculator, that would depend on the desktop environment, each one has its own
• 288[02:17:37] <deleuze6> So, I'd like to give this Google-blessed solution a shot. It seems reasonable and standards-compliant and (shockingly) does not involve me sending stuff to Google servers.
• 289[02:17:38] <_Cute_Kitty_> oh
• 290[02:18:50] <deleuze6> but it does require me to set up something strange to run on port 853 of my debian box, and while I'd like to do that, I'd prefer some prepackaged thing. like the .deb I see here: replaced-url
• 291[02:19:15] <deleuze6> but why would I trust aaflalo anyway? I'd much rather trust Debian's crack team of security experts to run it through the rigours
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• 293[02:20:18] <deleuze6> hence, my request for a 'dotd'
• 294[02:21:53] <nvz> lupus: and you have a command that makes those settings where they are take effect?
• 295[02:22:02] <deleuze6> apt-get install dotd and hey presto! something that runs on localhost:853, pointing to a DNS server that runs on localhost:53, and for which ssh -fCNL localhost:53:localhost:53 <deleuze@my-debian-box>
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• 297[02:23:11] <deleuze6> rather ssh -fCNL localhost:853:localhost:853 deleuze@my-debian-box would give me what I want
• 298[02:23:20] <nvz> lupus: you need only create a rules file /etc/udev/rules.d/99-bridge.rules with the line ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="module", KERNEL=="br_netfilter", RUN+="sysctl -p" or such
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• 301[02:23:44] <nvz> lupus: triggering that command to run when the kernel adds the module br_netfilter
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• 303[02:24:00] <nvz> lupus: or create a systemd oneshot for it.. or whatever
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• 305[02:24:56] <lupus> nvz: you sure that's the conventional way ? that seems too convoluted
• 306[02:25:19] <alphazulu> ah ok found some info re: abi and kernel: replaced-url
• 307[02:25:41] <lupus> i know distrubtions have their own ways of dealing with sysctl.conf, and it seems debian changed its approach from 9-10
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• 314[02:30:13] <alphazulu> this page good info also re: kernel and ABI: replaced-url
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• 316[02:32:39] <lupus> nvz: replaced-url
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• 318[02:33:04] <lupus> apparently there is a rc.local hack to force loading the sysctl.conf
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• 320[02:34:14] <nvz> lupus: the problem is, the conventional ways were hacks to begin with, then systemd came along and didnt provide support for them,, so.. new hacks must be made
• 321[02:35:09] <nvz> there is talk in documentation of a systemd-sysfs I see no such thing in debian
• 322[02:35:42] <nvz> I had just wrote however a tool which relies on certain sysfs stuff, and I made those settings persistent using udev
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• 325[02:36:50] <nvz> technically you can probably do it all in udev, I am just not that intimately familiar with it to know how to translate the attributes you want
• 326[02:37:20] <nvz> you can also just do shit the old fashioned way and use a systemd oneshot unit custom made to run echo "0" > /proc/sys/foo/bar/baz
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• 420[03:47:18] <mrvdv> New hosting service now running... Free shells or dedicated servers. If interested, pm me or come to #inter-link
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• 465[04:25:47] <cha18> hello, I seem to not have umask on my system and I wasn't able to find anything searching with apt-file?
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• 469[04:26:54] <Bushmills> umask is provided by shell
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• 471[04:27:48] <swift110> sup folks
• 472[04:28:01] <Bushmills> try "help umask" (assuming you run bash or similar)
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• 476[04:31:50] <cha18> hmm, so I guess I have it as user and as root, but it returns command not found when run with sudo
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• 478[04:33:34] <Bushmills> try sudo bash -c umask instead
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• 521[05:14:29] <Jmabsd> trying to start libvirt says "failed to communicate with bridge helper: Transport endpoint is not connected
• 522[05:14:32] <Jmabsd> stderr=failed to create tun device: Operation not permitted
• 523[05:14:34] <Jmabsd> Domain installation does not appear to have been successful.
• 524[05:14:36] <Jmabsd> "
• 525[05:14:46] <Jmabsd> why does it not work out of the box? looks like the libvirt distribution with Debian is broken on delivery and users need to random-google to fix it ..
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• 538[05:29:47] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: the qemu bridge helper is not setuid in the package, and a bridge.conf is required to allow non-root to bridge VM interfaces to a system interface
• 539[05:30:10] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: i think this is documented in /usr/share/doc -- note that it's not required for qemu "user" networks which are probably more common
• 540[05:30:10] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: right, there was another bridge interface that i provided userland access to this way now.
• 541[05:30:34] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: qemu is preconfigured to work while libvirtd is not?
• 542[05:30:36] <Jmabsd> why
• 543[05:30:40] <SerajewelKS> i think the idea is that if you're smart enough to be using bridge interfaces you can probably find the docs :)
• 544[05:30:42] <Jmabsd> isn't libvirtd the "normal" way to run KVM VM:s?
• 545[05:30:55] <Jmabsd> oh so flattering ;)
• 546[05:31:02] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: the bridge helper is part of qemu, not libvirt (unless libvirt also has one?)
• 547[05:31:23] <Jmabsd> oh! err. err. maybe libvirtd depends on qemu !?
• 548[05:31:37] <SerajewelKS> if you're using KVM then yes you're probably also using qemu
• 549[05:31:51] <SerajewelKS> libvirt is just an abstraction/manager. it's not the hypervisor. qemu+kvm is.
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• 551[05:32:22] <SerajewelKS> libvirt manages qemu for you so you don't have to invoke it with a dozen arguments
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• 553[05:32:58] <SerajewelKS> if you run a vm and look as ps or pstree you should see qemu-system-* is running
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• 555[05:35:13] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: i see. now -
• 556[05:35:21] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: the "tun" thing confused me. so what allow command do I need
• 557[05:35:26] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: actually why does the tun thing show up at all
• 558[05:35:36] <SerajewelKS> qemu by itself is very powerful but not very user-friendly. it doesn't have the concept of VMs or snapshots, it just knows what you tell it when you run it (use this disk, use that network, etc.). libvirt implements layers on top such as a VM library with snapshots etc. but IIRC libvirt also has an abstraction for hypervisors so it can use others besides qemu/kvm.
• 559[05:36:10] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: oh by the way, any idea which form of KVM network has the best performance.. "virtio"?
• 560[05:36:15] <Jmabsd> "model=virtio"
• 561[05:36:30] <SerajewelKS> virtio is a paravirtualized card so it will perform the best
• 562[05:36:34] <Jmabsd> mhm
• 563[05:36:45] <SerajewelKS> if possible use virtio disks as well :)
• 564[05:37:04] <SerajewelKS> if the guest is a recent linux then it should have all the required virtio drivers already
• 565[05:37:18] <Jmabsd> good.
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• 567[05:37:25] <SerajewelKS> if it's windows then i _think_ there's virtio drivers floating around but otherwise virtio won't work.
• 568[05:37:26] <Jmabsd> sure for sure the guest has virtio drivers.
• 569[05:37:50] <SerajewelKS> as far as network, i don't know why tun would be involved at all. bridged networking should use a tap device.
• 570[05:37:58] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: to virt-install I indeed pass "--network=bridge:MyEliteBridge0,model=virtio"
• 571[05:38:10] <Jmabsd> exactly
• 572[05:38:24] <Jmabsd> my /etc/network/interfaces stipulates the creation of MyEliteBridge0.
• 573[05:38:30] <SerajewelKS> i don't use virt-manager so i can't offer advice on how to use virt-install
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• 575[05:39:07] <SerajewelKS> but i can give you the argument i pass to qemu: -nic bridge,id=net1,br=br0,model=virtio-net-pci
• 576[05:39:31] <Jmabsd> probably what I do is pretty much same as you
• 577[05:39:35] <SerajewelKS> my /etc/qemu/bridge.conf has a single line "allow br0"
• 578[05:40:02] <SerajewelKS> note that the instructions i found said to make it owned by root and chmod 600 but i found this didn't work even when qemu-bridge-helper is setuid
• 579[05:40:15] <SerajewelKS> apparently it checks the whitelist with your user's permissions, so i had to make it 644
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• 594[05:55:36] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: "640" seems to have worked for me.
• 595[05:55:49] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: also chown to "root:qemu" worked, er.
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• 610[06:10:57] <mohammad-ghasemi> hello, why i get the following error rutting apt-get install [anything]: exim4-base : Depends: exim4-config (>= 4.82) but it is not going to be installed?
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• 616[06:17:11] <annadane> !bext
• 617[06:17:13] <annadane> !next
• 618[06:17:20] <annadane> !lart dpkg
• 619[06:17:20] * dpkg flings poo at annadane
• 620[06:17:38] <annadane> ...ew
• 621[06:18:12] <annadane> i genuinely can't tell if people have left or changed their usernames
• 622[06:18:19] <annadane> i do not want to turn on username change notifications
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• 628[06:24:57] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: oh, this solution was needed: "chmod ugo+s /usr/lib/qemu/qemu-bridge-helper
• 629[06:24:57] <Jmabsd> " derpie derp.
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• 635[06:30:04] <Jmabsd> great, it booted. now how attach a boot medium to a libvirtd vm..
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• 645[06:47:15] <hatter_> Sometimes when a drive starts failing, this shows up on the console with errors like 'drive ready error' or crc errors, however these errors do not get logged in syslog or messages, where should I go to see these messages ? or how do I have them logged to syslog ?
• 646[06:48:15] *** Quits: Wharncliffe (coffee@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 647[06:48:46] <hatter_> They do appear in dmesg however like this : Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed
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• 650[06:49:13] <hatter_> it's these mostly that I see on the console : ata3.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
• 651[06:49:43] *** Joins: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip)
• 652[06:50:17] <hatter_> however the drive still works, mdadm is still working, when I see these I usually do a hdparm -tT /dev/sdx to see if the drive is slowing down, however this doesn't always show a slowed down drive either
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• 655[07:00:02] <nvz> hatter_: these days all that is logged to journald and by default the journal isnt persistent
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• 657[07:00:51] <hatter_> @nvz thanks, can it be logged elsewhere ?
• 658[07:01:13] <nvz> please don't do that.. this is IRC not twitter/facebook
• 659[07:01:21] <hatter_> oops, how do I direct a msg to another user ?
• 660[07:01:30] <hatter_> nvz, yes, accidental :)
• 661[07:01:32] <nvz> hatter_: by putting their nick first on the line
• 662[07:01:38] <nvz> followed by a : or , or such
• 663[07:01:43] <hatter_> nvz: ok
• 664[07:01:51] <hatter_> nvz, thx
• 665[07:01:57] <nvz> @nvz would indicate I am usermode +o
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• 667[07:02:18] <hatter_> did those two work ? they are not different colours as per your replies
• 668[07:02:20] <nvz> and it doesnt cause my client to highlight me because thats not my nick
• 669[07:02:32] <nvz> yes, both those work
• 670[07:02:40] <hatter_> nvz: ok thx
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• 672[07:03:16] <nvz> I dont know how to get it to log elsewhere offhand other than running a different logging daemon or something perhaps..
• 673[07:03:25] <nvz> you can however tell journald to save its logs
• 674[07:03:39] <hatter_> nvz: ok thx, I will look into journald
• 675[07:04:04] <hatter_> nvz: do you know what the mechanism is called that is generating these errors ?
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• 677[07:04:17] <nvz> its called linux
• 678[07:04:35] <hatter_> nvz: these disk errors are straight out of the kernel ?
• 679[07:04:39] <nvz> the messages are being generated by the kernel, but the ata driver
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• 681[07:06:33] <hatter_> this showed me one of the errors : journalctl -k | grep reallocate
• 682[07:07:21] <hatter_> nvz: is everything that goes to syslog also going the journal ?
• 683[07:07:39] <hatter_> or journald ?
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• 685[07:07:50] <nvz> as far as I know, the issue of journald and persistent logging is that by default it's set to auto and auto WILL persistently log as needed to /var/log/journal/ but that directory doesnt exist by default and will not be created by "auto" only by "persistent"
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• 687[07:08:17] <nvz> so one either has to create the directory hierarchy or change the setting from auto to persistent
• 688[07:08:28] <nvz> otherwise you have no journal across reboots
• 689[07:08:32] <hatter_> is the plan to replace /var/log/syslog and /var/log/messages ?
• 690[07:08:40] <hatter_> nvz: ok, interesting
• 691[07:08:50] <nvz> idk what systemd's plans are.. other than to drive us insane :D
• 692[07:09:07] <hatter_> nvz: certainly creates controversy.
• 693[07:09:26] <nvz> and in debian terms we dont even use or ship a lot of it, and modify what we do so.. heh.. its hard to say
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• 695[07:09:37] <hatter_> nvz: I personally haven't had any systemd related issues yet, however I have read of people that have
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• 697[07:09:54] <nvz> I'm learning to cope with and use it.. but not nearly as well as I understood linux before systemd
• 698[07:10:09] <hatter_> nvz: yeah, that is the really annoying part.
• 699[07:10:29] <nvz> one thing I do know is that journald has the benefit of efficient binary logs that makes them take up less space, be searched more quickly etc.,
• 700[07:10:55] <nvz> and I also know it has the downside of when something in systemd fails and causes cascading failure, you have no logging at all cause its all f'n integrated
• 701[07:10:56] <hatter_> nvz: however they are not persistent by default ?
• 702[07:10:59] <nvz> I've seen it happen in here
• 703[07:11:07] <nvz> hatter_: not with the way debian has it setup
• 704[07:11:46] <hatter_> nvz: the logging situation is you describe is insane
• 705[07:12:10] <hatter_> nvz: finding issues through logs is one of the great things about linux in general
• 706[07:12:14] <nvz> the config file is /etc/systemd/journald.conf and its all commented out, but defaults are shown
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• 708[07:12:55] <nvz> and the Storage=auto is described in the manpage of basically being the same as persistent with the one difference that auto will not create dirs as needed, and since /var/log/journal/ doesnt exist by default, auto will not log persistently only in memory
• 709[07:13:03] <hatter_> nvz: will this file get overwritten with updates ?
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• 711[07:13:17] <nvz> so either creating the directory or changing the setting to persistent should enable it
• 712[07:13:40] <hatter_> nvz: however it then won't be rotated by default...
• 713[07:13:42] <nvz> hatter_: debian policy doesn't allow files to be overwritten without asking if they have been modified
• 714[07:13:56] <hatter_> nvz: ok great.
• 715[07:14:10] <nvz> hatter_: if you modify a config, it'll ask via debconf to keep your version or replace with maintainers version
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• 717[07:14:57] <nvz> and of course debconf has interfaces for QT, GTK, ncurses, readline, so it'll find a way to ask you
• 718[07:16:18] <hatter_> nvz: do you know what needs to be restarted to reload the journald.conf ?
• 719[07:16:45] <nvz> not really, but I know there is systemctl daemon-reload which tends to make changes to units and such take effect
• 720[07:17:06] <nvz> and I also know that journald is a service and can probably be restarted independantly
• 721[07:17:16] <nvz> with systemctl restart journald.service
• 722[07:18:00] <hatter_> nvz: nope, that doesn't work
• 723[07:18:16] <nvz> hatter_: you may want to read the manual replaced-url
• 724[07:18:25] <hatter_> nvz: ok thx
• 725[07:18:42] <nvz> replaced-url
• 726[07:18:49] <nvz> clearly shows that it is in fact a service
• 727[07:19:03] <nvz> maybe its systemctl restart systemd-journald
• 728[07:19:26] <hatter_> nvz: yes, I was just trying that as you typed it :)
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• 730[07:19:35] <hatter_> nvz: that didn't error
• 731[07:19:56] <nvz> I should probably do this on my system too.. before I get pissed when SHTF and I dont have logs :D
• 732[07:20:04] <nvz> and I won't have the excuse that I didnt know better :P
• 733[07:20:37] <hatter_> nvz: however the log is now a blob so you can't tail it...
• 734[07:20:56] <nvz> yes.. but I suppose you could tail the journalctl command
• 735[07:21:14] <nvz> and it has its own features for paging, searching, etc afaik
• 736[07:21:21] <nvz> though I'm not very familiar with them
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• 738[07:21:43] <hatter_> nvz: meh, the pain of systemd, I like the simplicity of plain text files.
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• 742[07:22:15] <nvz> I like the simplicity of everything that was linux prior to systemd
• 743[07:22:20] <hatter_> nvz: agreed.
• 744[07:22:30] <hatter_> nvz: thx for the comments and direction :)
• 745[07:22:40] <bullgard4> dpkg: Knoppix
• 746[07:22:40] <dpkg> Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. replaced-url
• 747[07:22:42] <nvz> though having learned a bit about it, I do like some things systemd has to offer, but I think its main flaw is being too far reaching
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• 749[07:23:55] <nvz> it was concieved in linux and in debian to address a simple issue of properly booting the kernel with asynchronous init.. and rather than just do one thing and do it well like I've seen FOSS do for ages.. it started being a damn black hole swallowing up every function of the system
• 750[07:23:57] <hatter_> nvz: like everything life, when you invest time learning something, then are comfortable with, then some beurocracy changes everything and you have to learn a heap of new stuff, it is painful.
• 751[07:24:09] <nvz> its like a whole damn operating system that linux and debian run on
• 752[07:24:31] <hatter_> nvz: that is full of non readable binary blobs.
• 753[07:24:31] * alkisg finds that a good thing; less diversion between distros, less things for developers to test on
• 754[07:24:33] <nvz> it controls the time, the logs, the network, the sysctl interface, the hardware abstraction, you name it..
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• 757[07:25:20] <nvz> hatter_: yes I used to teach linux to people from the "everything is a file" standpoint focusing on the filesystem and its organizational system and the tools to work with files and filesystems
• 758[07:25:33] <nvz> hatter_: now you have crap like systemd and guix.. ugh..
• 759[07:25:48] <nvz> hatter_: any time you think systemd is bad, just go play with guix or the guixsd awhile..
• 760[07:26:21] <hatter_> nvz: we could always move to devuan I guess.
• 761[07:26:23] <nvz> when you're lost in a sea of symlinked parenthesis and hashes.. you'll welcome systemd with open arms
• 762[07:26:33] <nvz> hatter_: I'm not gay :P
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• 767[07:27:42] <nvz> Devaun is the second gayest sounding linux distro name
• 768[07:28:03] <hatter_> nvz: what is the first ?
• 769[07:28:12] <nvz> hatter_: Mandriva obviously.. :D
• 770[07:28:25] <hatter_> nvz: hahaha, I haven't heard of that for yearts
• 771[07:28:28] <hatter_> 'years'
• 772[07:28:50] <nvz> Devaun is clearly Mandriva's bitch..
• 773[07:29:20] <hatter_> nvz: The last release of Mandriva Linux was in August 2011
• 774[07:29:33] <hatter_> nvz: it's dead.
• 775[07:29:54] <nvz> really though, the reasons I became a Debian user when I was wandering through the FOSS world as a Windows refugee, was due to the Social Contract and Why Debian? documents.. and as long as they don't violate those.. I'm not going anywhere
• 776[07:30:19] <hatter_> nvz: and a great community.
• 777[07:31:00] <nvz> I'd had like any windows user the constant reboots, hunting for apps, viruses, bsods, you name it.. but then I wanted to view media on a webpage back in 2002 on Win2k Pro and it said I needed to update WMP and Windows Update landed me in a reboot loop and that was the last straw..
• 778[07:31:11] <hatter_> nvz: I just scrolled the list to see if dondelelcaro is still here, I remember him helping me years and years and years ago
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• 781[07:32:11] <nvz> hatter_: yeah, Don is def still around.. he's heavily involved in the community past and present.. he just has plenty to do outside the community, and most of his contributions don't really need his attention these days
• 782[07:32:25] <hatter_> nvz: the constant reboots are on Windoze are even worse than ever.
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• 784[07:33:03] <nvz> hatter_: it was he who had me suck it up with systemd.. hearing him argue against my irrational frustration with it, struck a chord cause I knew and trusted his opinions
• 785[07:33:32] <nvz> hatter_: really? seemed to me like that had died out.. but I haven't personally used or supported windows since I found Debian
• 786[07:33:33] <hatter_> nvz: fair enough :)
• 787[07:33:54] <hatter_> nvz: oh yeah, windows 10 and server 2016, so annoying.
• 788[07:34:06] <nvz> hatter_: though hearing our systemd maintainer talk about it, makes me not entirely shut up about it either :D
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• 791[07:34:58] <nvz> I've listened to Michael Biebl talk of systemd at conferences.. he's def into making it work, but he also has reservations about where they're going with it
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• 793[07:35:44] <hatter_> nvz: well with Redhat right into it, it's here to stay I would say.
• 794[07:36:24] <hatter_> nvz: how many of these bugs have you witnessed on here to do with systemd ?
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• 800[07:37:25] <nvz> enough of them.. I've seen cascading failure lead to no accessible logs, I've seen cpu specific bugs, I've seen huge security issues which thankfully didnt affect our users at large cause they were in features disabled by default..
• 801[07:37:38] <nvz> and all this is just in the last 6mo :D
• 802[07:37:47] <hatter_> nvz: oh :(
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• 806[07:39:11] <nvz> RedHat was my first distro though.. after the third reboot in a row that came up to a gray box with a little drum beating icon and saying Windows Setup Please Wait.. I took off to the store, stopped in a Best Buy and bought a 2 disk set of RH 5.2 for $24
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• 808[07:40:20] <hatter_> nvz: it was mine too. I now use Centos in the datacentre for the KVM stuff and still use Debian in small businesses because of familiarity.
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• 811[07:40:38] <ZaZaGX> delete delete delete
• 812[07:40:41] <nvz> it was a sad time in RH history though, and I ditched it quickly.. I'd found Mandrake (mandriva before it came out of the closet) and it was more feature-complete and polished.. but I soon realized there was more to Linux I wouldnt learn with that.. and I almost got cozy with slackware but then realized all that manual configuration took more time leaving less time to actually get things done
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• 815[07:41:34] <hatter_> nvz: I remember the Redhat 5 purchase, it was nice little white cardboard box.
• 816[07:41:37] <nvz> Then via DistroWatch I believe, I found Debian.org.. the site was quite plain back then.. nothing flashy about it.. but when I'd found the Why Debian? and Social Contract documents and read them, I was sold..
• 817[07:42:03] <nvz> I don't remember a box, if I even got one.. I just remember I believe two cds in a single two disk jewel case
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• 819[07:43:01] <hatter_> It's been a fun journey. I would be fixing lawnmowers or something it Linus hadn't started Linux. No way would I be in computers still if MS was the only option.
• 820[07:43:03] <nvz> hatter_: idk if you ever read those documents, but having used proprietary software with its EULAs and such.. and all its issues.. reading those documents was just mind blowing
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• 822[07:43:30] <hatter_> nvz: I don't think I have. However I will investigate now.
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• 826[07:44:08] <nvz> hatter_: replaced-url
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• 831[07:45:09] <hatter_> nvz: yes I have read those. It sold me too.
• 832[07:45:12] <nvz> I don't see how anyone can read those and not see this is something special.. you have these developers speaking to users saying, welcome to the family, we're gonna build something great together, and we're not gonna judge you, limit you, or hide any of our flaws or motives..
• 833[07:45:24] <nvz> its just mind blowing
• 834[07:46:24] <hatter_> nvz: agreed. As I said above, it's why I am still onto computers, when you have the monopoly of the behemoth controlling everything, GNU/Linux is here as the almost communist answer to it.
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• 836[07:46:52] <nvz> hatter_: even after nearly 20 years of using Debian now.. I look at these new distros spinning out off Debian.. like mxlinux, all they have is forums.. for example.. many distros are the same sorry state.. we have major IRC communities on two networks, a public open BTS, wiki, forums, mailing lists, etc..
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• 839[07:47:49] <hatter_> nvz: and Ubuntu for the desktop version. Have you ever spent time at #ubuntu ? it's useless for anything except GUI related stuff.
• 840[07:49:17] <nvz> hatter_: yeah, I used to hang out there and try support Ubuntu like I try to hang out in spanish channels and work on my language skills :D but I really don't like ubuntu.. I think its always cool when folk try take a more business like approach and scratch niches, make some money, and contribute back.. and Ubuntu One is pretty nice I'll admit..
• 841[07:49:33] <nvz> but I look at things like how ubuntu requires registration just to use their BTS and it rubs me the wrong way :D
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• 843[07:50:33] <nvz> and I'm no developer.. I can code semi competently in several languages.. but even I know total shit when I see it.. and if you ever looked at the code that implements ppas.. that is USDA Grade-A shit..
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• 845[07:52:58] <pasiz> nvz: but you can snap in ubuntu... isn't that cool. Posix have always hated, when everything is hard linked to one executable, now ubuntu is bringing it in to attract windows users.
• 846[07:53:59] <hatter_> pasiz: snap ?
• 847[07:53:59] * nvz really hates snap
• 848[07:54:27] <hatter_> googling now.
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• 850[07:54:46] <nvz> here in the US snap is either a negative exclaimation like when someone gets over on you or "takes the piss" as they say, you say "Aw snap!" or its a name for a crackhead..
• 851[07:55:16] <nvz> and really thats a good comparison for the kinds of people who use snaps.. they are like crackheads.. they'd sell their computer to buy new software..
• 852[07:55:38] <pasiz> ;)
• 853[07:55:49] <nvz> they are suffering what I'd termed Shiny New Software Syndrome
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• 858[07:57:14] <nvz> of the ones I've glanced at, AppImage seem to be the least ridiculous
• 859[07:57:38] <nvz> unlike snaps, flatpacks, docker images, they require no special stuff to use and are essentially just disk images that are executable
• 860[07:58:06] <nvz> you just click them to run the app the contain, and you can mount them like disks and access their contents easily.. all with the image itself, no special software required
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• 863[07:58:40] <pasiz> but still useless. Why we first install system with shared libraries, and then we don't use those.
• 864[07:59:05] <nvz> well I wouldnt go so far as to call static stuff useless or ridiculous..
• 865[07:59:25] <nvz> I'd long ago even when still using/servicing windows kept drives with static binaries around for when SHTF
• 866[08:00:01] <nvz> but it is cruft in normal usage none the less
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• 868[08:00:38] <nvz> I'd played a bit with OpenRA and they distribute in appimages which I find kinda annoying cause OpenRA is one of those things made to mod.. and its harder to mod something thats all rolled into a ball
• 869[08:01:13] <nvz> but mounting an appimage once you learn how, is really simple.. it contains the entire software suite to use the appimage in any way within the image itself
• 870[08:01:15] <pasiz> making recovery system for special case is completely different story than using on os in working environment
• 871[08:01:22] <hatter_> there must be some size bloat with some of this stuff ?
• 872[08:01:25] <nvz> pasiz: agreed
• 873[08:01:36] <pasiz> nvz: i have tried appimage
• 874[08:01:38] <nvz> hatter_: of course
• 875[08:02:09] <hatter_> is appimage like a container ?
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• 878[08:02:11] <nvz> hatter_: but for those suffering sns its like heroin.. its a quick easy cheap fix.. :D
• 879[08:02:19] <ksk> nah, its like snap I suppose.
• 880[08:02:34] <nvz> snap requires extra crap to use
• 881[08:02:48] <ksk> and already has a history of $project shipping really, really outdated debs/libs, containing known security flaws..
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• 883[08:03:10] <ksk> I can understand why people do want such a thing, but in practice - meh!
• 884[08:03:11] <hatter_> ksk: this the real issue with this concept.
• 885[08:03:22] <hatter_> like the internetofthings
• 886[08:03:33] <nvz> yeah, I never really focused on that.. cause I reject the mere idea.. but that is a great point
• 887[08:03:56] <hatter_> I remember a webcam that some stoopid person had connected to the internet, it stopped being a webcam and became a still image of a cartoon girl with boobies
• 888[08:04:05] <hatter_> not me btw, a customer
• 889[08:04:59] <nvz> its like the last two issues my family talked to me about.. my brother asking about the VLC exploit and my mothers current Win10 box dead after an update.. I like the fact that Debian is stable first and foremost and when it does break I have a great community with a well documented system.. I can just go to tracker.debian.org or such and immediately know if an issue effects my system and how
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• 891[08:05:19] <soman> mkdir & touch in /vat dir via ssh gives Permission denied. Logined as root. id returns all 0. lsattr shows one 'e' flag on a var. ls shows root:root drwxr-xr-x on var. mount shows '/dev/sda1 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered), !!!=> touch & mkdir works on a local machine directly. Connect command: ssh root@ip. Debian Stretch based distro. Any ideas why permissions are denied via ssh?
• 892[08:05:19] <hatter_> I am staggered by the amount of devices there must be connected to the internet #IOT that will turn into spamzombies one day
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• 895[08:05:56] <ksk> soman: its a pain to read :/
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• 897[08:06:51] <ksk> soman: can you paste the actual ssh command that you are using, which is failing?
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• 899[08:07:00] <nvz> soman: that is rather perplexing, have you explored any additional access controls like apparmor or selinux or such?
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• 902[08:07:36] <alkisg> "Stretch based", which one? Maybe it does additional things we don't know about?
• 903[08:07:38] <nvz> ksk: it seems apparent to me that they are logged in via ssh using ssh root@ip as stated
• 904[08:08:03] <ksk> ah, I thought he tried "ssh root@ip touch /bla/foo" etc pp
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• 907[08:08:21] <ksk> wich might, or might not fail, depending on what he is doing (ssh eating arguments and such..)
• 908[08:08:26] <soman> ksk: 1) ssh root@ip. 2) mkdir /var/test
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• 913[08:08:52] <nvz> I was just thinking maybe some higher level access control could be limiting ssh users or something
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• 916[08:09:04] <nvz> like a VM, apparmor, selinux, etc
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• 918[08:09:46] <soman> nvz alkisg: Astra Linux 1.6 Didn't explored any additional layers. Also both machine are in VMWare if it makes sence
• 919[08:09:50] <ksk> soman: are you sure you end up in the same box, as the local one? :D
• 920[08:09:55] <ksk> !based on debian
• 921[08:09:56] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 922[08:10:05] <astra> sup
• 923[08:10:08] *** Joins: freedom (~freedom@replaced-ip)
• 924[08:10:23] <ksk> astra: you have a linux distri, gz! :D
• 925[08:10:50] <astra> lol yeah
• 926[08:11:02] <astra> russian
• 927[08:11:11] <soman> ksk: can't be sure after such behavior 😁
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• 929[08:11:18] <pasiz> Also general mistace car...
• 930[08:11:33] <nvz> from what I see on wikipedia that distro was made to address russian military concerns.. it no doubt has addded security measures
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• 932[08:11:50] <astra> Russia<3
• 933[08:11:52] <pasiz> is putin involved in debuggin your ssh soman?
• 934[08:11:55] <nvz> you'd probably need to seek help from those developers
• 935[08:12:13] <pasiz> via kgb
• 936[08:12:44] <hatter_> they are already watching. They will be contacting Soman shortly.
• 937[08:12:51] <soman> pasiz: kgb isn't active anymore. It's called FSB now
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• 939[08:13:59] <pasiz> soman: i have never visited your country, but i have visited soviet union ;) Nice they make cosmetic changes...
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• 942[08:14:23] <ksk> lets keep it ontopic in here guys :P
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• 944[08:15:20] <soman> ij general: all the common reasons are ok and I need to look deeper into security parts?
• 945[08:15:22] <ZaZaGX> debian is russian based?
• 946[08:15:34] <pasiz> ZaZaGX: astra linux is ;)
• 947[08:15:54] <pasiz> ksk: good advice
• 948[08:15:56] <kirk781> ZaZaGX, nope
• 949[08:16:14] <ksk> soman: there would be no such behaviour in a basic debian install - so we cannot help you at all, sorry.
• 950[08:16:25] <ksk> try contacting the devs / support of your distribution
• 951[08:16:39] <alkisg> soman: for example, `grep -w var /proc/mounts` may reveal it's a mount point, and not just a subdir of /, but that's just an example, the idea is "we don't know where to look"
• 952[08:16:40] <astra> :D
• 953[08:16:45] <soman> Astra Linux, MCBC, Zarya and many other are russian linux distros.
• 954[08:16:54] <soman> ksk: ok thanks
• 955[08:16:54] <alkisg> Other idea is that ssh might be using chroots
• 956[08:17:10] <soman> alkisg: how can I check this?
• 957[08:17:29] <alkisg> Both of those were examples, just to tell you "we don't know" :)
• 958[08:18:17] <ZaZaGX> dang, looks like astra linux must be good. its probably as good as kaspersky because its in russia
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• 976[08:41:38] <murii> how can I store the output of a command in a variable then echo it?
• 977[08:41:58] <alkisg> x=$(ls); echo "$x"
• 978[08:42:00] <ksk> murii: more of a bash question; bla=($command); echo $bla
• 979[08:42:19] <ksk> eh, alkisg has the syntax right ;)
• 980[08:42:36] * alkisg typed a smaller command so was faster :D
• 981[08:42:44] <ZaZaGX> i don't get the commands
• 982[08:43:33] <murii> ah, it doesn't want to work, I have it exactly like that
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• 984[08:43:43] <ksk> murii: what are you trying to do?
• 985[08:43:53] <murii> format the output of uptime
• 986[08:43:57] <murii> nothing fancy
• 987[08:44:28] <murii> replaced-url
• 988[08:44:30] <ksk> murii: and that information helps us how? please share the code you are using..
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• 990[08:44:52] <murii> ksk: that echo prints an empty line
• 991[08:45:03] <ksk> eeh, that looks really wrong. what are you trying to get out of uptime?
• 992[08:45:06] <annadane> !tell ZaZaGX -about newcomer
• 993[08:45:41] <ksk> (not as wrong in "wrong bash" but wrong from a what people should, and what people should not do rather... :p)
• 994[08:46:03] <murii> ksk: heh
• 995[08:46:07] <ksk> murii: also, if you just want the 3 values, why not "cat /proc/load_avg"?
• 996[08:46:18] <murii> when you start your pc the hours in uptime is not present. I'm trying to get the minutes
• 997[08:46:26] <murii> and when the hours are there show the hours as well
• 998[08:47:21] <ksk> what are you really tring to do? generating some "how long has this computer been running" script?
• 999[08:47:27] <murii> yes
• 1000[08:47:41] <alkisg> murii: `man proc` => /proc/uptime This file contains two numbers: the uptime of the system (seconds), and the amount of time spent in idle process (seconds).
• 1001[08:47:55] <alkisg> You can just format that as hours:minutes
• 1002[08:48:10] <murii> ok, maybe I will do that but now I need to know how to make this work
• 1003[08:48:11] <murii> :D
• 1004[08:48:22] <murii> for future references
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• 1007[08:49:10] <ksk> I am not into debugging your (pointless) bash script, sorry :P add debuging output is a general thing you can do, or run it via "bash -x"
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• 1009[08:49:38] <murii> alright
• 1010[08:49:39] <ksk> what alkisg told you sounds way better to your needs
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• 1012[08:50:02] <ksk> there also is a package "uptimed" - you might want to take a look at that, depending on what you are really trying to do
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• 1020[08:54:11] <alkisg> murii: try this: IFS=. read sec rest</proc/uptime; printf "%d:%02d\n" "$((sec/3600))" "$((sec%3600/60))"
• 1021[08:54:32] <alkisg> This always uses hours:mins, never "days" etc
• 1022[08:54:33] <murii> huh
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• 1024[08:54:44] <ksk> also give #bash a try, if you are into getting bashed (just kidding, nice people over there..)
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• 1026[08:54:59] <murii> ksk: :D
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• 1034[08:58:42] <murii> alkisg: the IFS thingy...
• 1035[08:58:43] <annadane> though one person may yell at you...
• 1036[08:58:47] <annadane> a lot...
• 1037[08:58:51] <annadane> :P
• 1038[08:58:53] <nvz> heh
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• 1040[08:59:11] <ksk> if that person is yelling, he is right most of times I think :D
• 1041[08:59:16] <alkisg> murii: that just stops at the dot, to avoid parsing the fractional part
• 1042[08:59:44] <murii> thank you!
• 1043[08:59:46] <alkisg> np
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• 1045[09:00:45] <ZaZaGX> damn debian machine
• 1046[09:00:52] <pragomer> hi folks. I dont get the usage/manpage of "speedtest-cli": I want to measure the speed on my local network; how I understood I have to start speedtest-cli as a server on one computer, and the client-parameters on the 2nd pc, right?
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• 1050[09:03:17] <winny> pragomer: you want something else - iperf is a good choice
• 1051[09:03:37] <ksk> or a random webserver (nginx) and a random http client (wget)
• 1052[09:04:45] <ratrace> Any ideas why on Buster there would be only mq-deadline and none io schedulers available, when looking at /sys/class/block/<disk>/queue/scheduler ? even though, for example, cfq is avilable in the kernel, it's not not listed via sys/class and I can't set it there.
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• 1054[09:05:33] <pragomer> Its for checking between my debian-pc and a synology nas, so the tools should run on the synology, too
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• 1056[09:07:07] <pragomer> but you are right.. now I remember that iperf was the tool of choice some years ago :-)
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• 1059[09:08:07] <pragomer> so a static binary of iperf would be cool
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• 1070[09:13:51] <ratrace> if anyone's interested, i solved my problem. tl;dr: mq schedulers are default, thus mq-deadline. with mq default, single queue ones like cfq and deadline are not available at all. single queue is going away in 5.x+
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• 1073[09:14:41] <ratrace> (or to be precise, CONFIG_SCSI_MQ_DEFAULT=y in the buster kernel makes single queue iosched unavailable at run time)
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• 1142[09:45:32] <coffeeslayer> Anyone know how to setup an SSH tunnel to proxy a remote machine's host:port to my local machine? Something like this: Local machine -> Remote server -> some.internal.host:3306
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• 1146[09:49:25] <nvz> coffeeslayer: ssh -R 3306:localhost:3306 user@host
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• 1151[09:54:01] <vlt> pragomer: Or simply "nc".
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• 1169[10:16:45] <coffeeslayer> nvz: Thanks, but it seems that the server i want to proxy through has locked down TCP forwarding. I'm getting "Warning: remote port forwarding failed for listen port 3306".
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• 1173[10:18:09] <nvz> try -L *shrug* the direction always confuses me a bit :P
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• 1176[10:19:04] <ksk> if its shared-hosting, it might not work at all (even with the right command, which I cannot ever remember..)
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• 1178[10:23:44] <coffeeslayer> Yeah it's a web hosting server, I guess that they have set the AllowTcpForwarding directive to "no" in sshd_config, the -L argument did remove the warning, but im just getting a remote shell, no bound port.
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• 1181[10:24:58] <coffeeslayer> I'll have to live with phpMyAdmin to manage the database..
• 1182[10:25:09] <ksk> coffeeslayer: no external mysql access?
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• 1184[10:25:18] <coffeeslayer> Nope..
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• 1187[10:26:24] <ksk> upload a php proxy or so :x
• 1188[10:26:25] * ksk hides
• 1189[10:26:47] <ksk> upgrading your package to something with external mysql access might be the sane solution though
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• 1192[10:30:18] <coffeeslayer> ksk: ooh, haven't even thought about that. I guess that will piss off the hosting company :D. It's just a simple wordpress site so I wont access the database regularly.
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• 1199[10:33:20] <ksk> you checked if there is mysql client available locally? if that is what you want to do in the first place, using mysql-cli
• 1200[10:33:29] <ksk> and yeah, it will piss them off, and/or violate TOS ;)
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• 1219[10:39:03] <coffeeslayer> :ksk Yeah I have access to mysql, mysqldump and mysqlrestore. But I would prefer to use DBeaver. It's so hard to get an overview with the cli client imo.
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• 1225[10:41:17] <ksk> oh, did not know that tool, looks nice.
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• 1234[10:48:19] <coffeeslayer> I have added the vrapper plugin which enables vi-like bindings, Im really happy with it!
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• 1242[10:58:24] <diogenes_> Hey guys, is it ok to use tmpfs for /var?
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• 1244[10:59:58] <joltis> diogenes_: /var has persistent files on it. So if you dont mind re-creating those on boot, then sure
• 1245[11:00:36] <diogenes_> joltis, i see, thanks.
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• 1248[11:02:12] <koollman> diogenes_: most likely not ok
• 1249[11:02:34] <diogenes_> hmm
• 1250[11:02:52] <ayekat> if you consider breaking your package manager "ok", it might be, though
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• 1252[11:03:20] <diogenes_> i'm gonna do some testings.
• 1253[11:03:47] <koollman> diogenes_: why do you want to do this ?
• 1254[11:04:22] <ayekat> diogenes_: do those testings on a throw-away VM, because it's going to throw away a tonne of essential system data
• 1255[11:04:27] <diogenes_> koollman, i plan on minimizing writes to HDD.
• 1256[11:04:49] <diogenes_> ayekat, ok thanks for the hint :)
• 1257[11:04:57] <RoyK> diogenes_: it's a BAD idea
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• 1259[11:05:11] <alkisg> diogenes_: dpkg -S /var => shows the list of packages that *ship files* in /var, i.e. they're not even generated
• 1260[11:05:14] <koollman> diogenes_: maybe limit your tests to /var/tmp and /var/cache. when something else is written, it should stay
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• 1263[11:05:37] <ayekat> diogenes_: the "hint" was more: you're going to render your system useless - you don't need much "testing" for finding that out
• 1264[11:05:42] <koollman> and you will probably need something to regenerate the correct directories/permissions
• 1265[11:06:20] <joltis> I have run some servers with that uses another partition for the var-files, which are copied to tmpfs on boot, works great
• 1266[11:06:26] <joltis> But that's a very special use case
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• 1268[11:06:31] <RoyK> diogenes_: most writes to /var, even the logs, are buffered quite well and won't wear out your SSD (just guessing) in a few years
• 1269[11:06:47] <koollman> RoyK: some writes are useless, though :)
• 1270[11:06:53] <diogenes_> some sources say that at least /var/lock and /var/run should be ok.
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• 1272[11:07:09] <ayekat> also "reduce writes to my SSD to avoid it dying" hasn't been an issue anymore for years now
• 1273[11:07:16] <RoyK> diogenes_: IIRC /var/run is on tmpfs by default
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• 1275[11:07:28] <RoyK> ayekat++
• 1276[11:07:38] <ayekat> /var/run is a symlink to /run anyway (which is a tmpfs)
• 1277[11:08:10] <ayekat> and /var/lock -> /run/lock
• 1278[11:08:13] <diogenes_> indeed findmnt /var/run shows it's tmpfs.
• 1279[11:09:09] <diogenes_> so it's ok, then only /run and /tmp left to tmpfs.
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• 1281[11:09:21] <ayekat> /var/tmp is described in the manpage as typically *not* residing on a tmpfs and thus being capable of holding larger temporary files than /tmp, which *may* reside on a tmpfs
• 1282[11:09:42] <ayekat> diogenes_: again, /run is already on a tmpfs
• 1283[11:10:10] <diogenes_> ayekat, right you are, then only /tmp :)
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• 1286[11:11:15] <ayekat> yep - there are setups where /tmp is mounted as a tmpfs (some distros do that by default)
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• 1299[11:22:27] <ratrace> the important thing about /var/tmp is that it must survive reboot, so it can't be a tmpfs
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• 1308[11:29:20] <koollman> ratrace: any exemple of something using it and requiring content after reboot ?
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• 1313[11:30:06] <ratrace> koollman: not OTOH, but traditionally that's the expectation, and hier(7) even says "unspecified duration"
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• 1321[11:37:00] <ksk> koollman: mhhm, it seems over here on my buster desktop systemd does put the private temps on /var/tmp/?
• 1322[11:37:20] <ksk> I would suspect these apps to work though after a reboot without that data - and also systemd deleting it anyways..
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• 1330[11:41:30] <yokowka> heavenO everysoul. i ve allready installed sims3 game, but can't run it....
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• 1333[11:43:53] <ksk> yokowka: may I ask your level of linux expertise and your goals in regards to "staying pure debian"? :P
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• 1335[11:44:59] <ksk> yokowka: if "not too many linuxes" and "meh?" - take a look here: replaced-url
• 1336[11:45:40] <ksk> if inclined the other way: use wine, check winehq. I suppose sims3 is really old now, so even the really old wine versions in debian should do (normally, I did not check winehq for sims3..)
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• 1338[11:46:34] <ksk> also, even if someone might not suspect that, building wine is not too hard (should you need to get a newer version, which I, again, doubt)
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• 1340[11:49:17] <diogenes_> ksk, instead of compilation, PlayOnLinux offers you pretty much any wine version.
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• 1345[11:51:44] <koollman> ratrace: I know it is traditional, but I do not know any real world examples :)
• 1346[11:52:17] <yokowka> ksk, sims 3 was rebuild for linux os.
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• 1348[11:52:40] <ratrace> koollman: come to think of it, gentoo's portage is using it with the expectation that it is NOT a tmpfs by default
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• 1350[11:53:29] <ratrace> /var/tmp/portage is supposed to be the scratch space for building often multi-GB packages where it can't default to being tmpfs
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• 1356[11:57:28] <koollman> ratrace: yes. but that's more of a size issue than a persistence one :)
• 1357[11:58:03] <ratrace> true
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• 1365[12:00:44] <ratrace> koollman: maybe this is, nginx on freebsd, the installer pre-creates the /var/tmp/nginx dir, owned by nginx user. that's supposed to survive reboot, as there's no tmpfiles mechanism that would re-create it on boot.
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• 1367[12:01:11] <ratrace> koollman: i don't remember how it was on debian before systemd
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• 1372[12:05:55] <pasiz> system V init is used before systemd in debian
• 1373[12:06:50] <ratrace> pasiz: i know, i meant how nginx tmp dir was handled
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• 1375[12:08:04] <koollman> ratrace: yes, this is a good example. But it would be rather trivial to handle
• 1376[12:08:31] <koollman> I assume the init script could test if it exists and create it
• 1377[12:09:02] <koollman> or, just have the directory tree copied into a tmpfs at boot
• 1378[12:09:38] <ratrace> yeah but how was it actually done? maybe i could find nginx initscripts for wheezy
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• 1382[12:10:22] <ayekat> file-hierarchy(7): "[…] In contrast to /tmp/, this directory is usually mounted from a persistent physical file system and can thus accept larger files. (Use /tmp/ for smaller files.) […]"
• 1383[12:10:51] <ayekat> with applications expecting /var/tmp not to reside on a tmpfs (and thus being able to handle larger files), I think it would be rather bad idea to put it on a tmpfs
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• 1387[12:11:35] <koollman> ayekat: yeah, we know the 'official' theory of what it should be. Just wondering about real-world things that would break :)
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• 1390[12:12:01] <ayekat> hmm... I should reread the backlog more properly - sorry ^^
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• 1394[12:12:31] <koollman> it's fine. but if you know anything that would break (so far: large files, and expected directories with correct permissions)
• 1395[12:13:05] <ratrace> koollman: apparently current nginx sysv init script doesn't handle tmpdir at all replaced-url
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• 1397[12:14:04] <ratrace> postinst neither... huh
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• 1399[12:14:23] <koollman> isn't it just shipped in the package ?
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• 1401[12:15:04] <pasiz> i think dpkg should handle creation of directories, not init system
• 1402[12:15:15] <ratrace> koollman: ah no, it's using /var/lib/nginx/ for tmp files
• 1403[12:15:28] <koollman> ratrace: so ... not tmp, still ok :)
• 1404[12:15:33] <ratrace> yeah, okay, so nginx on debian doesn't use /var/tmp at all by default
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• 1409[12:18:42] <LionOpeter> Hi, i want to send an email from linux (ubuntu) cli to gmail without gmail account - possible?
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• 1412[12:19:18] <ratrace> LionOpeter: maybe ask in #ubuntu
• 1413[12:19:19] <Haohmaru> did you say ubuntu?
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• 1415[12:19:41] <Haohmaru> or is there a snot spot on my screen
• 1416[12:21:01] <ratrace> Haohmaru: isn't that the same? *runs*
• 1417[12:24:47] <Haohmaru> i can't differentiate them ;P~
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• 1420[12:27:31] <ayekat> pasiz: the package manager can't anticipate all the directories that will be required by some software, though
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• 1422[12:27:58] <ayekat> (directories like /var/cache/$software or /var/lib/$software, and everything underneath, typically)
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• 1424[12:28:41] <ayekat> and some of the software naively expect those directories to exist, so it makes sense to wrap the directory generation into the init script or service file as a workaround
• 1425[12:28:51] <ratrace> ayekat: but in this context, individual packages can mkdir and rmdir in postinst and postrm stages
• 1426[12:29:27] <ratrace> the question is only finding which package uses /var/tmp by default, in a way that would break if /var/tmp was tmpfs
• 1427[12:30:13] <ayekat> ratrace: true - but what if the directory is only necessary for some functionality, but not all?
• 1428[12:31:11] <ayekat> one could of course just create all the directories ahead of time even if unnecessary - but I prefer not polluting a directory tree "just in case"
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• 1432[12:34:04] <ratrace> ayekat: my point was the package manager itself needn't care :: a package should declare if they need a dir pre-created
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• 1434[12:34:37] <ratrace> and it very much ties into default configs for services, since on debian services autostart on installation, any such default config requiring specific dirs must declare it so
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• 1436[12:35:52] <ayekat> ratrace: yes, but so you hardcode the existence of a directory for a package, even if that directory may never actually be required by said package
• 1437[12:36:22] <ayekat> say some software XYZ has an option to use a cache in /var/cache/XYZ, but by default doesn't
• 1438[12:36:48] <ayekat> does it make sense to precreate that directory anyway, just in case the user configures XYZ to use a cache?
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• 1440[12:38:22] <ratrace> ayekat: if the *default* config uses it, then yes, absolutely, or the service couldn't start on installatoin
• 1441[12:38:51] <ratrace> for example, i'm now looking through nginx package source to figure out what pre-creates /var/lib/nginx and chowns it to replaced-url
• 1442[12:38:57] <ayekat> yes, but I'm talking about when the default config doesn't use that cache
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• 1444[12:39:11] <ratrace> ayekat: that use case is not in discussion here, only defaults
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• 1446[12:40:32] <ayekat> ratrace: the original comment in this discussion was: "i think dpkg should handle creation of directories, not init system"
• 1447[12:40:58] <ayekat> to which I replied that there may be cases where a directory need not be created by default
• 1448[12:41:18] <ratrace> dpkg in itself, or the package via dpkg?
• 1449[12:41:19] <dpkg> wish i knew, ratrace
• 1450[12:41:28] <ratrace> if the former, i agree, dpkg in itself shouldn't care about all possible use casess
• 1451[12:41:46] <ratrace> but packages *should*
• 1452[12:41:59] <ayekat> ratrace: no idea what they meant, but I interpreted it as "the package manager should do what tmpfiles.d or init scripts do"
• 1453[12:42:23] <ayekat> but to be fair, if something can be optionally configured to use a cache directory, and that something doesn't handle the creation of said directory, it's probably badly designed to begin with
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• 1455[12:42:50] <ayekat> so I guess "have the package manager create at least /var/cache/foobar" is reasonable
• 1456[12:42:59] <ayekat> I haven't really thought this through ^^'
• 1457[12:43:27] <ratrace> ah here we are. the package declares the dirs it wants the package manager to precreate: replaced-url
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• 1459[12:43:54] <ratrace> ayekat: yes, the packager knows what goes into default config and what should thus be pre-created on installation, like the above dirs for nginx
• 1460[12:44:53] <ayekat> yeah, I guess the package should just handle the package's default config, not every possible case (even if the software itself handles it badly)
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• 1463[12:49:05] <ratrace> koollman: if you're willing to look into this, this is a way to find how packages are using /var/tmp: replaced-url
• 1464[12:49:45] * koollman adds this to the endless todo list of "interesting ideas to try out" :)
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• 1508[13:53:00] <tgunr> I am encountering a problem trying to mount an EFI partition on a ZFS disk. The partition map show part 2 as EFI (replaced-url
• 1509[13:54:05] <jelly> is there really a zfs signature on that partition (and why)
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• 1518[14:03:08] <tgunr> I am thinking it has to do something about uberblocks
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• 1520[14:03:41] <tgunr> Just found a bug report which implies that
• 1521[14:03:58] <ratrace> tgunr: probably. was there a zpool on that disk previously? entire disk perhaps or starting with what's now your esp?
• 1522[14:04:24] <ratrace> if yes, you should've zpool labeclear'ed it before setting up esp
• 1523[14:04:32] <tgunr> yes, there was a zpool on that drive previously
• 1524[14:05:14] <tgunr> replaced-url
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• 1528[14:05:49] <tgunr> Guess I will start all over, trying to move my single boot drive to a mirrored drive
• 1529[14:06:42] <ratrace> tgunr: yes but... which zfs are you using? the one packaged in buster? the bug report you linked is for 0.8.x
• 1530[14:06:59] <tgunr> using buster here
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• 1532[14:08:22] <ratrace> well, buster's zfs doesn't have that problem, so your problem is then probably related to previous pool not being labelclear'd
• 1533[14:09:02] <tgunr> yeah, i failed to execute labelclear sadly
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• 1535[14:09:36] <ratrace> when i had issues with previous pools messing up new ones, the problem was so bad that the only solution was total wipe and reinstallation ; could be things changed now, dunno
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• 1537[14:10:07] * tgunr nods
• 1538[14:10:10] <ratrace> or you snipe superblocks with dd, but i never bothered trying to figure out where they are, there's 3 of them iirc, beginning, middle and end of the vdev provider
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• 1540[14:12:25] <tgunr> from what i am reading there are tons of them
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• 1542[14:15:29] <tgunr> well, 128 anyway
• 1543[14:16:30] <tgunr> zdb shows the uberblocks but not their offsets :(
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• 1548[14:20:48] <diogenes_> so i guess the vlc update on buster is the security one that comes to address the infamous vlc vulnerability?
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• 1595[14:56:22] <humpled> :V
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• 1598[14:59:55] <jelly> diogenes_: does this "infamous" issue have a CVE number?
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• 1601[15:01:02] <diogenes_> jelly, not sure: replaced-url
• 1602[15:01:50] <diogenes_> but the most recent vlc updates come from debian-security repo so i thought it might be it.
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• 1605[15:02:29] <greycat> CVE-2019-13615 apparently
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• 1607[15:03:17] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 1609[15:03:29] <greycat> Fixed in buster, it says.
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• 1613[15:06:00] <avronr> Hey?
• 1614[15:07:43] <jelly> diogenes_: that's a bug in libembl apparently, not vlc
• 1615[15:07:59] <diogenes_> ok
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• 1617[15:08:12] <abrotman> Hay?
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• 1623[15:09:42] <jelly> ,v libebml4v5
• 1624[15:09:43] <judd> Package: libebml4v5 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.3.4-1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.3.4-1+deb9u1; buster: 1.3.6-2; bullseye: 1.3.9-2; sid: 1.3.9-2; stretch-multimedia: 1:1.3.4-dmo1; bullseye-multimedia: 1:1.3.9-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 1:1.3.9-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:1.3.9-dmo1
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• 1829[18:01:16] <wwilliam> i want to cat a whole bunch of files but i want space between them with the name of the file at the beggining how do i do that?
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• 1832[18:02:18] <wwilliam> like cat * > allmycats but i need name of every file at the beggining of each. I dont know if i explained myself correctly.
• 1833[18:02:37] <Razva> hey! I'm trying to mount a CIFS share and it's constantly failing. I've enabled debugging, here's the full `dmesg` logs: replaced-url
• 1834[18:02:55] <Razva> the error is `mount error(2): No such file or directory`
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• 1836[18:04:59] <wwilliam> got it thank you for loop i did.
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• 1851[18:16:52] <Razva> the issue is somewhere here: replaced-url
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• 1862[18:23:36] <pasiz> i have strange problem in my lenovo X220 with debian. suspend shuts down the computer
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• 1865[18:25:22] <jhutchins_wk1> pasiz: That's kind of the idea of suspend.
• 1866[18:26:52] <pasiz> oh, i thought it saves the state like in every other lenovo i have. But this just cuts power off
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• 1870[18:27:22] <pasiz> i can also remove battery if i need that type of suspend
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• 1873[18:28:43] <pasiz> if i take harddrive to X201, suspend works. On this machine not.
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• 1875[18:30:02] <jhutchins_wk1> pasiz: It sounds more like it's the resume function that's not working.
• 1876[18:30:21] <jhutchins_wk1> pasiz: Also sounds like it might be something in the BIOS/EFI that's causing problems
• 1877[18:30:53] <jhutchins_wk1> There are no real standards for suspend/hibernate/resume, so there are some pretty disfunctional implementations.
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• 1880[18:31:26] <diogenes_> especially with lenovo, i'd expect a superfish v.2 :)
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• 1882[18:31:45] <diogenes_> i've had huge issues with all lenovo laptops on linux.
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• 1886[18:34:43] <pasiz> jhutchins_wk1: no it's not resume issue, i know how that works
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• 1901[18:42:30] <n_1-c_k> pasiz, if you're using a function key, maybe try pm-suspend from cmd line, in case it's different.
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• 1903[18:42:51] <pasiz> n_1-c_k: same effect
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• 1905[18:43:04] <pasiz> also pm tests via sysfs leads to poweroff
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• 1907[18:43:28] <pasiz> i think i need to test to upgrade bios
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• 1910[18:44:08] <n_1-c_k> pasiz, oh well. Try the --quirk* options perhaps.
• 1911[18:44:24] <greycat> upgrading the "bios" does sound like a good idea
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• 1913[18:45:28] <pasiz> greycat: why so?
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• 1917[18:46:04] <greycat> If it fixes the problem, you win. If it doesn't, at least you've ruled that out.
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• 1920[18:47:56] <pasiz> n_1-c_k: you mean --no-quirck
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• 1922[18:48:33] <pasiz> like pm-suspend parameter
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• 1924[18:49:16] <n_1-c_k> pasiz, there's various of them, in the man page. Hopefully none will cause damage...
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• 1928[18:50:21] <pasiz> n_1-c_k: damage of what. you think losing X220 to paperweight is bad option. It's just nice sized laptop with i7 and 16gig memory...
• 1929[18:50:55] <n_1-c_k> probably nothing, but I've never tried or needed any of them myself.
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• 1982[19:32:26] <debianghost> Hi there! I have an issue with gdm3 not giving me the login screen when I connect via xtightvncserver, is there some trick for starting the gdm3 desktop on a remote instance?
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• 1985[19:32:45] <debianghost> I just get a gray screen with the famous X11 "X" mouse pointer and that's it
• 1986[19:33:05] <debianghost> I used tasksel to enable gdm3
• 1987[19:33:26] <greycat> Does gdm3 itself run in X11, or in Wayland?
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• 1989[19:36:20] <debianghost> I don't actually see xserver running, the gdm3 server is running on its own
• 1990[19:36:28] <debianghost> maybe I need to manually also install xserver-xorg?
• 1991[19:37:00] <debianghost> or wayland, I guess?
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• 1993[19:37:25] <debianghost> I literally only enabled gdm3 in tasksel, and by the way this is on debian buster
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• 1995[19:37:36] <greycat> I see a bunch of X libs when I do "apt-cache show gdm3 | grep Depends" so it's really not clear to me how any of that GNOME stuff works
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• 1997[19:37:59] <debianghost> same here
• 1998[19:38:18] <debianghost> and xwayland is already installed
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• 2008[19:43:06] <alkisg> debianghost: usually gdm3 itself runs on wayland, and that can be configured by putting WaylandEnable=false in the gdm3 config; that said, xtightvncserver itself might need its own configuration to properly set up a remote login screen...
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• 2010[19:43:38] <debianghost> right, that's what I'm thinking
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• 2022[19:49:24] <jhutchins_wk> debianghost: VNC servers usually handle session logiins.
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• 2024[19:49:43] <jhutchins_wk> debianghost: That or they try to connect to an existing Xsession.
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• 2045[20:00:22] <debianghost> I was able to run xfce4-session and it gave me the xfce4-desktop
• 2046[20:00:35] <debianghost> I modified /root/.vnc/xstartup to load xfce4
• 2047[20:00:44] <greycat> /root /?
• 2048[20:00:52] <greycat> um
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• 2058[20:05:11] <BCMM> debianghost: so, uh, are you running xfce as root?
• 2059[20:05:30] <greycat> Oh good, it's not just me who drew that conclusion.
• 2060[20:05:55] <greycat> But since this VNC stuff is all sorcery to me....
• 2061[20:05:57] <debianghost> I'd rather not, but that's the only thing that currently gives me a desktop
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• 2063[20:06:17] <BCMM> debianghost: what's the only thing that gives you a desktop? root, or xfce?
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• 2068[20:06:30] <debianghost> xfce4
• 2069[20:06:55] <debianghost> I run vncserver as root, but I expected a login screen, not a full blown root desktop
• 2070[20:07:07] <BCMM> oh, i see.
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• 2073[20:07:13] <debianghost> in theory I'd get a login screen, I'd login as a user, and everything would then run under that user, not root
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• 2077[20:09:32] <alkisg> debianghost: epoptes.org does that
• 2078[20:09:45] <alkisg> If your local host is also linux, that is...
• 2079[20:09:54] <alkisg> It doesn't run on windows etc
• 2080[20:10:20] <alkisg> Or you can do some XAUTHORITY/DISPLAY magic and access the login screen over ssh/vnc
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• 2083[20:11:12] <BCMM> debianghost: i think you're supposed to use XDMCP for that
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• 2089[20:14:09] <greycat> I don't know how XDMCP and VNC are related, though.
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• 2094[20:15:51] <BCMM> greycat: the simple way of setting up a vnc server is to just start a vnc server as the user you want to log in as. but it's kind of a hassle if you have more than one user, and the users are expected to ssh in and start their own servers or something
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• 2098[20:16:20] <BCMM> (talking about the kind that has a dedicated Xvnc X11 server here, not the sort of vnc server that connects to a "real" X server as a client)
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• 2100[20:17:13] <greycat> The whole thing is just utterly mystifying to me. The basic concept. Why would anyone even THINK of such a thing as "make my computer show me what this other computer would do if I were logging in on the other computer"?
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• 2104[20:17:41] <BCMM> xdcmp isn't directly related to teh vnc protocol; it's for two different X servers to communicate. but that's actually what is happening here (just with two X servers on the same machine)
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• 2109[20:18:00] <BCMM> greycat: well, to perform GUI tasks remotely, clearly...
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• 2111[20:18:08] <greycat> XDMCP at least makes a *little* sense because it was designed for "X terminals" which aren't full-blown computers, back in the 1980s and 90s.
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• 2116[20:18:46] <BCMM> is it the notion of running a program remotely at all that seems confusing, or the notion of starting a full-blown desktop?
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• 2119[20:19:28] <BCMM> ("remotely" as in execution occurs on one machine and display occurs on another)
• 2120[20:19:51] <jhutchins_wk> BCMM: Almost all of my work is remote. Almost none is graphical.
• 2121[20:20:09] <BCMM> jhutchins_wk: fair enough. but some people *do* use graphical tools
• 2122[20:20:31] <jhutchins_wk> Yes. Much damage is done.
• 2123[20:20:51] <greycat> BCMM: the "whole desktop" thing. Like, what's wrong with your OWN computer that it can't do its OWN desktop? And what if you wanted to run remote GUI programs (*shudder*) from more than one place?
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• 2127[20:21:23] <BCMM> greycat: Windows is what's wrong with it, usually
• 2128[20:21:57] <BCMM> i.e. you want to maintain the workflow you have when you're physically at the machine, not fight Microsoft's window manager constantly (if your work involves multiple windows)
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• 2135[20:22:56] <BCMM> also, vnc just works better than X11-over-the-network in many situations, and vnc doesn't really believe in multiple windows (sadly)
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• 2140[20:23:25] <debianghost> the only reason I even need this instance to run a web browser is that someone on my team needs to download a very large file from some web based facility (around 3.5gb), and then load it to another facility, and we're on some stinky slow copper connection here at the office
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• 2142[20:23:47] <KOLANICH> Hello everybody. Why does apt still use GP and not TUF?
• 2143[20:23:54] <KOLANICH> *GPG
• 2144[20:23:56] <debianghost> so the concept was to run a vm instance in google cloud, so it'd have super fast connectivity
• 2145[20:24:05] <debianghost> typically I do everything over ssh
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• 2152[20:25:29] <jhutchins_wk> KOLANICH: Probably because GPG is a well known, well documented, well tested industry standard.
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• 2154[20:25:45] <BCMM> debianghost: i guess there's some elaborate authentication involving cookies + js? i mean, you can't simply wget this file?
• 2155[20:26:06] <KOLANICH> jhutchins_wk: gpg is nightmare. For example it still accepts SHA1.
• 2156[20:26:17] <jhutchins_wk> debianghost: How is file transfer a GUI operation?
• 2157[20:26:31] <jhutchins_wk> KOLANICH: Accepts but doesn't default.
• 2158[20:26:44] <BCMM> debianghost: is this a one-off thing, or will you need to do this a lot?
• 2159[20:26:59] <jhutchins_wk> KOLANICH: Lots of tools are capable of doing things that aren't perfect choices in all environments.
• 2160[20:28:12] <BCMM> KOLANICH: is this actually a problem for the way apt uses gpg? can you suggest an actual attack this makes possible, for example?
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• 2171[20:29:32] <BCMM> debianghost: the more i think about it, the weirder it seems to use firefox in this context. why do you need a browser just to download a file?
• 2172[20:30:19] <BCMM> even if there's some click-through thing that generates a cookie that allows the download, you can export that cookie from the browser for use elsewhere pretty easily these days
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• 2174[20:33:39] <BCMM> well i'm off now. but, in case it's relevant, replaced-url
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• 2179[20:36:35] <KOLANICH> BCMM: I cannot imagine any real attack scenario when a hash function collision is used to attack users.
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• 2184[20:38:27] <KOLANICH> BCMM: because even if there is a collision, in order to exploit it the entity to which the certificate belongs still have to cooperate with adversary.
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• 2188[20:39:17] <KOLANICH> BCMM: so it is cheaper to just spread malware from own name openly.
• 2189[20:40:00] <KOLANICH> BCMM: probably I misunderstand cryp5o
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• 2212[20:58:38] <Urbanecm> Hello, systemctl enable tracker-process-tasks says "Failed to enable unit: Invalid argument". Could you tell me how to fix that?
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• 2218[21:02:39] <jhutchins_wk> Urbanecm: Does the system or target file exist?
• 2219[21:03:01] <Urbanecm> jhutchins_wk: service tracker-process-tasks start works perfectly
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• 2224[21:04:24] <jhutchins_wk> Urbanecm: Which doesn't answer whether the systemd file for it exists.
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• 2226[21:04:53] <Urbanecm> jhutchins_wk: well given the service starts, and I defined it only in systemd, yes, it does exist
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• 2228[21:05:14] <jhutchins_wk> I'm supposed to know this?
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• 2230[21:05:29] <jhutchins_wk> Urbanecm: can you get the status for it?
• 2231[21:05:52] <coruja> that's why apt-file can't find anything with this name
• 2232[21:06:11] <jhutchins_wk> since there are only three elements to the enable command, I would guess that there's something in the file it objects to.
• 2233[21:06:14] <Urbanecm> sure jhutchins_wk replaced-url
• 2234[21:06:54] <Urbanecm> and this is the .service file content replaced-url
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• 2236[21:07:56] <coruja> typo (missing 't') in last line?
• 2237[21:08:18] <coruja> or just accidently cut off while copying?
• 2238[21:08:29] <Urbanecm> no, it really isn't there, thanks a lot coruja
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• 2240[21:09:48] <coruja> but i would have expected systemd to complain when a unit file has errors - but let's see if that fixes your problem
• 2241[21:10:15] <Urbanecm> yes, it helped
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• 2244[21:11:30] <debianghost> BCCM: The person doing that work isn't that sophisticated...
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• 2401[22:45:02] <apostolis> After upgrading to buster, firefox keeps crsuhing my window manager dwm. What can I do?
• 2402[22:46:24] <apostolis> It happens sometimes when I click on a specific tweet on my twitter feed.
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• 2405[22:46:58] <xsisec_> Hi folks I am on debian buster, I wonder if there is a similar altenative to shutter is not longer working in buster :( I am using flameshot unfortunately it doesnt fullfil my requirements I would like to upload to fpt
• 2406[22:47:00] <xsisec_> ftp*
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• 2409[22:49:26] <Bushmills> import, from imagemagick, can be scripted to your requirements
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• 2437[23:10:03] <humpled> tweeting on dwm, somehow seems anachronistic
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• 2444[23:17:21] <jhutchins_wk> debianghost: They could probably be taught to click on a URL (assuming it chages) and copy it, then paste it into a script that uses curl or wget, and even posts it on to where it needs to go.
• 2445[23:17:50] <debianghost> they tried that, the download link required a cookie to work
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• 2447[23:18:04] <debianghost> but it's ok, once they are done using the instance I created, I'll nuke it
• 2448[23:18:12] <debianghost> probably even later today
• 2449[23:18:32] <jhutchins_wk> debianghost: Oh, yeah. Those. lynx!
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• 2455[23:25:50] <genoobie> hey all! Just installed Raspbian Lite on my pi (debian buster)
• 2456[23:25:55] <genoobie> and I have a few questions.
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• 2458[23:26:44] <genoobie> so I want to basically do two things with this. 1) I am going to connect this pi to a sensor where it will basically sit and collect data
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• 2460[23:26:54] <genoobie> after 24 hours or so I want to upload that data.
• 2461[23:27:07] <genoobie> to set up the sensor I need a GUI based on java.
• 2462[23:27:27] <genoobie> and something called RXTX which does USB over serial.
• 2463[23:27:43] <genoobie> I am using the CLI interface and I'm wondering what the best way to go about this is...
• 2464[23:28:01] <genoobie> so I guess I can start with java...
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• 2466[23:28:21] <nvz> genoobie: raspbian is not debian, and you're just rambling on, not asking questions that belong in the raspbian channel
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• 2468[23:28:34] <genoobie> it's basically debian buster, no?
• 2469[23:28:41] <nvz> !raspbian
• 2470[23:28:41] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
• 2471[23:28:58] <genoobie> well there you go then...
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• 2483[23:38:20] <cbthree> debian-10.0.0-i386-netinst.iso is 450MB. is there a smaller installation iso? i have a 250MB usb flash drive
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• 2486[23:40:24] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: The netinst image is a good compromise, not sure how big it is.
• 2487[23:40:45] <cbthree> debian-10.0.0-i386-netinst.iso is 450MB
• 2488[23:42:12] <humpled> maybe they meant serial over usb
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• 2502[23:54:31] <coruja> cbthree would maybe have been interested in the mini.iso
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