13[00:02:30] <starsnet> Andy9: спасибо за помощь) придется искать самому)
14[00:02:35] <greycat> starsnet: the jessie-lts factoid says that only some arches are supported in LTS. So *maybe* the MIPS arch packages are somewhere else, but if that's the case, I don't know where that would be. You could extrapolate from wheezy or something.
18[00:03:14] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
19[00:03:50] <starsnet> greycat: thx. may be i can find deb-packages from FTP ?
20[00:04:12] <starsnet> Andy9: :)
21[00:04:38] <Bushmills> !archive
22[00:04:38] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see replaced-url
23[00:04:42] <Andy9> starsnet (sry - no ru fonts here to write 'proper' cyrillic lol)
37[00:10:41] <Andy9> or do i / should i / use something else to access files on other machines on lan?
38[00:15:43] <somiaj> 'see other machines' is a bit vague, should they be seeing a windows share network (Samba/cifs), are they looking for nfs servers, or do you just have access to the machines via ssh.
39[00:15:43] <Andy9> in Thunar when i go to 'Browse network' it shows smb:/// < with 3 slashes? is that normal?
40[00:16:09] <Andy9> somiaj yes i mean windows machines on 'windows network'
41[00:16:13] <somiaj> anyways, it sounds like this is a samba (smb:///) issue, and maybe you have to configure your samba server to know the default windows domain to look through
42[00:16:34] <Andy9> there is no domain
43[00:16:36] <somiaj> I perosnally don't use this, so unsure of any details (I connect to the machines i want directly via samba and not just 'browse' what is out there)
55[00:20:09] <humpled> i've always had intermittent trouble with thunar and samba, but i know almost nothing about windows, what even is a workgroup?
56[00:20:17] <BazookaTooth> Andy9: thunar uses gvfs for all that stuff. you have to configure samba
57[00:20:30] <Andy9> when i search for samb application it doesnt appear; what was that list / lst command to find app in terminal you guys gave me earlier?
58[00:20:31] <somiaj> humpled: a workgroup is what windows uses to group home networks
59[00:20:50] <humpled> smbclient has been more reliable, but i guess it doesn't suit everyone
60[00:20:58] <somiaj> this isn't as complicated of a setup as a windows domain or what they call active-directories now (afiak)
61[00:21:13] <somiaj> yea, I just use smbclient, cifs directly myself.
62[00:21:27] <Andy9> somiaj my home workgroup is old-school, same as on win-nt/2000 none of that garbage introduced with vista
76[00:27:49] <Mathisen> samba-client should be enough
77[00:27:58] <somiaj> You probably don't need all of them, in this case you probably only need the clients, which might be included in the samba-libs and cifs files
78[00:28:21] <somiaj> might also need samba-common or something like that
83[00:29:56] <somiaj> yea smbclient may help debug things, but probably isn't required for thunar
84[00:30:14] <Andy9> somiaj yeah i thought i need client since im not setting it up (not yet) to be server , but the problem with every package i have noticed today is that they are not really described in a meaningful way
102[00:36:16] <Andy9> BazookaTooth thats exactly what is another problematic thing to me and most likely any other noob to linux: the names are different on different distros, which adds to confusion specially when u read about something and u think its not here but it actually is - just under diff name because help was written for another distro
103[00:36:33] <BazookaTooth> get used to it
104[00:36:43] <Andy9> yeah
105[00:37:58] <humpled> did you try the protocol fixing thing?
106[00:37:58] <Bushmills> there are tools to help findng your way through the different names. dlocate is one of them
107[00:38:04] <Andy9> now before i try to do anything according to any instructions on web - i do first check for what distro or from which distro's forum it is lol
108[00:38:29] <Bushmills> knwing the name of a file, you can ask it what package it is in. that package doesn't need to be installed locally
109[00:38:30] <humpled> whatever you do on the web, you need to learn which sources to trust
110[00:38:44] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
111[00:39:10] <Andy9> samba is still installing, thats long - is it normal
112[00:39:21] <humpled> what
113[00:39:30] <somiaj> sounds like you are installing the full server, depending on download speed it can take a little bit
114[00:39:32] <Andy9> humpled yes, thats true
115[00:39:42] <humpled> samba is the server
116[00:39:46] <somiaj> (the samba package will pull in the server and client)
117[00:40:19] *** Quits: Megaf (uid155773@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
118[00:40:26] <Andy9> somiaj it is dnlded but it is at 'preparing packages' for very long time
142[00:48:18] *** Quits: Psil0Cybin (Psil0Cybin@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'm interested in upgrading my twenty eight point eight kilobaud internet connection to a one point five megabit fibre-optic T-1 line. Will you be able to provide an IP router that's compatable with my token ring ethernet LAN configuration? - Comicbookgu)
155[00:52:56] <Andy9> but no i just googled IPv6 and i see android connectivity problems solved with disabling IPv6 from 2015, and very recent solution to stuttering youtube solved with disabling IPv6 on router in 2018
176[00:59:23] *** Quits: realif3 (~jray@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
177[01:00:18] <Andy9> when i played WoT ages ago someone suggested disabling ipv6 to me (coz having fast cable i always had very high ping) and it did work, my ping dropped from ~100ms to 20-25
178[01:00:44] <Andy9> thats how i started to look at it and have it disabled on my boxes
220[01:15:34] <J_C> Andy9: sudden burst of hatred for bill for putting "FarmVille 2: Country Escape" shortcuts on my computer without me telling him to. :(
221[01:15:40] *** Quits: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
222[01:15:54] <iStrive> this is the line from fstab //10.0.5.5/DrvImg /mnt/wdnas/DriveImg cifs credentials=/opt/.naslogin,vers=2.1,uid=1000,gid=1000,rw,nounix,iocharset=utf8,file_mode=0755,dir_mode=0755 0 0
223[01:16:05] <Andy9> J_C don't say! noooo, he would never do such heinous thing?
224[01:16:37] <iStrive> then dmesg | grep -E "error|fail|warn"
315[01:58:29] <toka> which i installed and then did a system reboot. however, i can't launch nvidia-settings for some reason and prime-select was not installed.
316[01:59:04] <toka> Am i missing something or is there a better method for config.?
432[02:47:43] <toka> ok... I did add the deb non-free repo. I had to for my firmware-atheros wifi driver
433[02:47:59] <_Cute_Kitty_> so toka: what might be happening is that you are't using nvidia drivers right now, which is why nvidia doesn't want to load settings. you're probably still using whatever was default before, so to fix we need to get you switched
434[02:48:02] <_Cute_Kitty_> then the settings should open
435[02:48:10] <_Cute_Kitty_> at least that's how i would try to problem solve it
436[02:48:37] <_Cute_Kitty_> what is the output of lsmod | grep nouveau and lsmod | grep nvidia?
531[03:57:14] *** Quits: sedrosken (~sedrosken@replaced-ip) (Quit: You shouldn't be seeing this!)
532[03:57:30] <toka> hey _Cute_Kitty_: sooo... that didn't work. result was my system stalling on boot splash. verbose showed the system stopped after attempting to start 'GNOME Display Manager'. Had to rescue with live disk by deleting the nvidia conf file we made. (@_@ )
535[04:00:05] <_Cute_Kitty_> eek. toka: unfortunately I have to go to bed because I have a long drive tomorrow, however, i can give you some parting advice. You may need to boot to cli instead of a graphical interface to do your work, - I don't know if the nouveau driver and nvidia driver conflict when you're trying to load either within the gui. my next steps would be to purge everything nvidia related, using apt-get purge and then apt-get autoremove, then
536[04:00:06] <_Cute_Kitty_> follow this guide from scratch. replaced-url
537[04:00:30] <_Cute_Kitty_> it may also help to google that nvidia model you showed me the lsci result of, and see if anyone else had any particular quirks getting it running in linux
539[04:01:09] <_Cute_Kitty_> the guide linked basically does the same thing you did already, with the nvidia detect, but there might have been a step you missed.
541[04:01:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> also, you'll get it fixed, eventually, albeit slow. post here, post in the debian forums, and wait. someone can and will help you eventually. Good night and I hope you get it working :)
653[06:00:00] *** Quits: Psil0Cybin (Psil0Cybin@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'm interested in upgrading my twenty eight point eight kilobaud internet connection to a one point five megabit fibre-optic T-1 line. Will you be able to provide an IP router that's compatable with my token ring ethernet LAN configuration? - Comicbookgu)
687[06:22:48] <SerajewelKS> ugh so after the upgrade to buster, one of my filesystems (on a raid1) won't mount. the raid1 is assembled. mount completes successfully. dmesg has "EXT4-fs (md127): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)"
714[06:29:19] <SerajewelKS> it's particularly bizarre to me that mount didn't complain when the source device in fstab didn't exist. but then after correcting the problem and re-running mount, it appeared to work (based on the kernel log) but didn't... my suspicion is that a systemd .mount was still running and fighting over the mountpoint.
719[06:32:49] <SerajewelKS> yep is systemd nonsense combined with -o nofail (apparently this makes the "mount" command not fail at all; i assumed this only meant that failure to mount wouldn't make systemd panic during boot)
854[08:48:11] <dataCobra> Good Morning everyone, today I found out that the mac adress of my wifi get randomized on bootup. I use debian buster and did not specifiy this behavior. How can I disable this?
914[09:23:19] <at0m> dataCobra: you may not use it, but did the machine ever have it installed? If any file in there has been edited/changed, removal of the package won't remove the dir
915[09:26:01] <at0m> dataCobra: iiuc, the idea behind this is that upon reinstallation, the previous edit would still apply
916[09:26:53] <at0m> dataCobra: an apt purge or dpkg -P would remove those remaining files, i think
917[09:26:58] <dataCobra> Hey at0m: There was no NetworkManager installed. It was a fresh install with debootstrap and xorg + i3 + wicd.
936[09:33:08] <dataCobra> alkisg: at0m: I assume that tlp-rdw is the one that set the configuration files. Because on my non-thinkpad laptops there is no mac-address change
950[09:46:03] <Unit193> kirk781: Hannah Montana linux unfortunately did have a use though, it was the first one to default to Wayland back before gnome and KDE had support.
951[09:46:18] <Haohmaru> i wish i could unsee that
1037[10:42:17] <mmp> Hello; I'm running `unstable` and recently, unattended-upgrades started spinning CPU to 100% for hours; is this a known issue/is there anything to be done apart from disabling unattended upgrades?
1038[10:42:57] <avu> mmp: you might have better luck with this question in #debian-next
1056[10:54:34] <dpkg> Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec.
1057[10:54:36] <nico__> Quemander
1058[10:54:40] <Haohmaru> hombre, english pls
1059[10:54:42] <nico__> "Salut, t'as pas une clope ?"
1060[10:54:51] <nico__> FUI BOCHOUREU EST CE QUE VOUS CONNAISSEZ DES GEEKS QUI FUMENT ?
1061[10:55:31] <Haohmaru> we don't parles italiano
1062[10:55:38] <Insanity_> Lol
1063[10:55:51] <nico__> Italiano is so melodic
1064[10:56:01] <nico__> melodism
1065[10:56:05] <Haohmaru> i don't like it
1066[10:56:07] <Insanity_> Spanish is (imo) the nicest latin language
1067[10:56:11] <nico__> Original
1068[10:56:14] <nico__> OwiGinal
1069[10:56:16] <Insanity_> As a non-native speaker I think so*
1070[10:56:25] <nico__> Melodious
1071[10:56:26] <nico__> Shut down.
1072[10:56:48] <nico__> yeah
1073[10:58:05] *** Quits: Ericounet_ (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1080[11:00:33] <dpkg> Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec.
1081[11:00:40] <jelly> ha, already said
1082[11:00:42] <nico__> !restart
1083[11:00:42] <dpkg> You want to reboot for WHAT?? If it's not a new kernel or a hardware change, you probably don't need to reboot. Ask me about <qotd2>.
1084[11:00:49] <nico__> continue();
1085[11:01:11] <jelly> nico__: this is a tech support channel though. If you want to chat there's #debian-offtopic, keep this channel for technical questions
1086[11:01:14] <Haohmaru> i think nico__ is bored
1087[11:01:16] <Haohmaru> !bored
1088[11:01:28] <nico__> Hi, Welcome on #debian, I'm nico your compagnon
1124[11:10:31] *** Quits: RickXy (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1125[11:11:18] <ZaZaGX> MBTI personality type
1126[11:11:23] <Haohmaru> okay, here's a lil question: so far i upgraded like 3 machines from debian 9 to 10, and when they boot (i guess in the beginning of systemd) the first thing i see is "resuming from hybernation" <- dafuq? shall i be worried?
1127[11:11:40] <ZaZaGX> oh mine does that too
1128[11:11:42] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1129[11:11:58] <ZaZaGX> i just ignore that lol
1130[11:12:06] <Haohmaru> so do i, but it's weird
1131[11:12:15] <ZaZaGX> its just a message
1132[11:12:29] <ZaZaGX> i don't think it's using power when i powerdown
1133[11:12:34] <Haohmaru> i know sometimes all kinds of errors might show up and yet the linux "runs fine" afterwards <shrug.gif>
1363[13:06:13] <diogenes_> Hey guys, i've been searching for the best way to turn off bluetooth from cli, i've come across a few suggestions, disabling it with systemctl, turning off from rfkill, modrpobe -r etc. Those are ok but how do i find the exact command that turns if off when you right click on the bluetooth applet and choose "Turn bluetooth off:?
1364[13:06:46] *** Quits: Havis (~Havis@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1368[13:07:47] <gkwhc> Hey guys, so this question isn't directly related, but I was wondering what project management tools do yall recommend? Have y'all tried Redmine or Zoho Project? I have experience with Redmine and think its great, just don't know if there's anything better out there.
1369[13:08:01] <Bushmills> diogenes_: service bluetooth stop
1394[13:13:06] *** Quits: Sora (~Neo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1395[13:13:12] <Haohmaru> hm, if a given file requires you to be root to "execute" it, is it possible there to be a symlink or something, pointing to that same file and not requiring root?
1424[13:19:25] <ayekat> `reboot` is just something that may do different things depending on the init system - the systemctl symlink exists for compatibility reasons (because typing `systemctl reboot` each time is cumbersome)
1436[13:21:16] <EdePopede> i just did it. brings up a huge list with whatever 1st entry having the desctription "Arbitrary Executable File Formats File System Automount Point"
1437[13:21:21] <diogenes_> lol guys, i've re-invented the wheel, the comman was: bluetooth off.
1438[13:21:32] <diogenes_> simple and elegant.
1439[13:21:33] <humpled> yay
1440[13:21:36] <Haohmaru> hahha
1441[13:21:50] <Haohmaru> you would've never guessed it
1442[13:22:12] <diogenes_> no chance to guess it Haohmaru XD
1443[13:22:18] <Haohmaru> sometimes linux may surprise you with simplicity
1444[13:22:32] <Haohmaru> when you least expect it
1445[13:23:11] <EdePopede> should commands be verbs or nouns? and what are they mostly? is there a clear tendency?
1456[13:27:33] <Haohmaru> holy sh*t, EdePopede that webpage almost broke my firefox
1457[13:27:41] <EdePopede> ayekat: thought about it in the past, i had the impression that *commands* are (mostly) verbs while programs are nouns. as in 'write' $text vs. 'write' and then do sth to open and save files
1458[13:27:44] <twanny796> got to go
1459[13:27:45] <EdePopede> huh
1460[13:28:10] <Haohmaru> is it digging bitcoins or something
1461[13:28:19] <EdePopede> Haohmaru: what happened? is it overloaded? no problems here, maybe it is noscript
1464[13:28:46] <ayekat> EdePopede: well, there's plenty of commands that are nouns themselves, but accept an "action" argument that is typically a verb - see git, docker, any of the *ctl commands, ...
1465[13:28:47] <Haohmaru> both cpu cores maxed out, i can barely scroll on it
1466[13:29:04] <EdePopede> omg, 20+ css files right from the start
1469[13:29:56] <EdePopede> ayekat: i'd put those into the 2nd group, they don't have a gui afaik, but they are their own infrastructure, so they really *could* have one
1470[13:29:58] <Haohmaru> i know nothing about webdev, but those people should be jailed
1481[13:32:37] <Haohmaru> yeah it's only getting worse.. the world wide web i mean
1482[13:32:42] <jelly> Bushmills: wtf is molly-guard
1483[13:32:47] <ayekat> EdePopede: I don't think it's related to whether it's got a GUI or not, but rather a matter of complexity - either it's a tool that does just one thing, or a tool that can do many different (sub-)things
1484[13:32:57] <pasiz> i think we need gopher back
1485[13:33:20] <pasiz> :)
1486[13:33:25] <Bushmills> prompting for host name before reboot, to prevent rebooting the wrong machine
1487[13:33:28] <GenTooMan> as you know people have issues with pip mine is a bit more frustrating so I put replaced-url
1488[13:33:35] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1489[13:34:07] <ayekat> EdePopede: imagemagick is probably a good example for something that, if it was written in this day and age, would have `imagemagick convert ...` or `imagemagick mogrify ...` in order not to pollute the namespace
1490[13:34:12] <EdePopede> ayekat: yea. things you typed in the shell usually used to start nice tools doing one simple job in the past, if not there was some curses or at least a line interface
1491[13:34:32] <Bushmills> avoiding the "oops, that was the ssh login" embarrassment
1492[13:34:36] <wwilliam> is there a setting in vsftpd that would not allow a user to ssh into the box?
1493[13:35:04] <Bushmills> or, "oops, that 'wasn't* .."
1495[13:35:29] <nvz> is there a working method in Debian 10 for making sysfs settings persistent? both sysctl and systool seem to not work i.e. /etc/sysctl.conf /etc/sysfs.conf
1496[13:35:40] <EdePopede> the alternative to it (iirc it came up because of licensing questions) has exactly this design, but only optionally. ah, graphicsmagick or so. type `gm` and it lists the commands (single tools) available. always missed this in IM, never could remember all the tools or even which i'd need for the task
1504[13:38:23] <ayekat> EdePopede: yeah - I think commands like `convert`, `display`, `identify`, `import`, `stream`, ... are not exactly very specific, and should better be grouped together under a common first-level command
1505[13:38:27] <pasiz> could you make udev rule for it
1506[13:38:37] <ayekat> but legacy etc. - those commands are likely going to stick around now
1518[13:40:28] <pasiz> nvz: i don't follow you completely, is your trackpoint name changing from boot to boot
1519[13:40:33] <nvz> pasiz: that sounds like the best method.. for me I just set the drift but I wrote a tool to configure this stuff and the persistence is the only thing its lacking
1520[13:41:28] *** Quits: Margolis (~Margolis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1523[13:41:57] <EdePopede> ayekat: i'm still happy that i put my fingers on linux during the days of boot and root disks. i think there were less files in /bin than nowadays entries in DE menus. util-linux, gnu coreutils, bsd-utils, and you had most of them. no fancy DE, no internet, but manpages being a real alternative.
1544[13:47:09] <EdePopede> years, actually decades ago i tracked down Borland's NULL and int. the only thing it didn't depend on was the day of week of build time, but that was all.
1545[13:47:37] *** Quits: tsujp_ (~tsujp@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1551[13:53:28] <brutser> hi, i made a bootable usb with debian 10 netinst, but now i have much unused space on the device and i wanted to use that, but when creating a partition with the Free space, i get an error: Start sector 10240 out of range. How can I fix this?
1552[13:54:16] <brutser> I created the usb flash drive with: dd if=debian-10.0.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M status=progress oflag=sync
1553[13:54:39] <brutser> it has 2 partitions created
1554[13:55:13] <nvz> and uses them both I believe
1555[13:55:29] <brutser> nvz: one is for EFI i can see
1556[13:55:37] <brutser> and then i have Free space left after that
1557[13:55:46] <Habbie> brutser, how are you trying to make the extra partition?
1558[13:55:52] <brutser> but i just create a new partition with cfdisk
1559[13:55:55] <brutser> Habbie ^
1560[13:56:02] <Habbie> show us please
1561[13:56:11] <nvz> I dont think its free space..
1577[13:59:34] <nvz> I'm pretty sure what you get with writing a debian ISO to a device is not your standard partition/filesystem setup though I dont have one here to test
1578[13:59:50] <brutser> seems cfdisk is assuming last sector is wrong and it tries overwrite part of the debian partition
1579[13:59:55] <brutser> and then stops
1580[14:00:01] <brutser> fdisk know where is last sector
1583[14:01:27] *** Jck_true8 is now known as Jck_true
1584[14:01:30] <brutser> Habbie: ok, so maybe i should not put important data on the new partition then? i just find it waste of space, the usb has 64GB data and netinst is using ~400M
1602[14:06:45] <brutser> oiaohm: yes the EFI partition (2nd partition) those sectors are within the first partition's sectors < that's why cfdisk assume to continue after that, but it should continue the sector after the 1st partition, rather than the 2nd
1603[14:07:01] <brutser> kind of complicated to say lol
1626[14:15:22] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1627[14:15:23] <jelly> ^
1628[14:16:08] <kreyren> jelly, meh fine.. OFTC just triggers me since it says that i'm identified while i'm not replaced-url
1629[14:16:19] <kreyren> i feel like it's disconnecting me on random
1640[14:18:09] <kreyren> humpled, because OFTC is abomination
1641[14:18:12] <jelly> kreyren: that probably won't happen
1642[14:18:49] <oiaohm> brutser: sorry I gave you the old manual link replaced-url
1643[14:19:11] <kreyren> or at least someone fix those disconnects or output a msg that i was disconnected or something i can't literally fix anything on #debian-next cause of this since i'm not getting the answers most of the time
1645[14:20:46] <jelly> kreyren: your client should tell you you're disconnect, and you can't join a channel
1646[14:21:20] <kreyren> jelly, nope it just logs me out and it's impossible to tell since it allows me to sent messages like nothing happend
1647[14:21:29] <kreyren> no msg or anything
1648[14:21:47] <z8z> Why the Eclipse package has been removed from Debian 10? Any specific reason?
1649[14:21:52] <kreyren> or just let me DoS it by sending /ns identify 1234 ever second *shrug*
1650[14:22:30] <themill> z8z: it's basically unmaintainable so everyone gave up
1651[14:22:38] <kreyren> and #debian usually knows better about debian-testing then #debian-next >.>
1652[14:22:50] <dvs> z8z, it's tied to Java 8, from what I heard.
1653[14:22:59] <themill> kreyren: maybe try asking questions that actually have answers and perhaps ask about systems that people are willing to touch at all
1654[14:23:10] <jelly> kreyren: your irc client is weird, try a different one
1655[14:23:22] <kreyren> jelly, using hexchat same issue on irssi
1656[14:23:37] <kreyren> themill, meh :c
1657[14:24:39] <z8z> themill: I see... thanks for the answer. Any place i can check in detail for the reason? Or you have a short understandable explanaion about how is "unmaintainable"?
1658[14:25:03] <kreyren> themill, afaik it has answer assuming that it seems to be issue with debian packaging nvidia on this configuration
1659[14:25:09] <kreyren> i dont have this issue on LFS
1660[14:25:22] <themill> kreyren: that's nice; that doesn't mean anyone wants to touch your mess
1661[14:25:32] *** Quits: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1665[14:26:15] <themill> Which is an unsupportable thing
1666[14:26:37] <themill> z8z: it is tied to particular versions of so many libraries and they're all vendored into the tarball (as is common over in java-land but not compatible with any linux distro)
1670[14:28:40] <z8z> themill: thank you for the explanation. You suggest to install from the PPA or change the IDE? Whichi is the best supported by debian for C++?
1674[14:29:18] <z8z> Insanity_: Ye researching for the best solid and long term one
1675[14:29:26] <Insanity_> try CLion perhaps
1676[14:29:39] * kreyren is installing nvidia-driver the LFS way then -.-
1677[14:29:42] <z8z> Insanity_: I do that because i was not so happy with Eclipse in the end
1678[14:29:44] <Haohmaru> Code::Blocks ;P~
1679[14:29:57] <Insanity_> I have ran Jetbrains IDEs under Debian (IntelliJ) without issue. IntelliJ can also be used for C/C++ with plugins and it's basically the same as CLion at that point
1680[14:30:10] <Insanity_> not sure if CLion has a community edition but IntelliJ does for sure, and can be used
1681[14:30:13] <z8z> Ye Code::Blocks seems the most suggested statistically speaking
1682[14:30:34] <Haohmaru> it's very configurable and resource conservative
1710[14:35:43] <Haohmaru> i remember in the past when i coded on normal PC, strings contain weird data inside, kinda not funny to debug, not sure if things have changed since then
1739[14:46:05] <Andy9> there's few packages for vlc not auto-selected for installation; i.e. vlc-plugin-access-extra with a generic description about vlc only, but it's name suggests it has something to do with accessing files - should i get those as well?
1740[14:46:20] <oiaohm> z8z: I trust flatpaks to install without stuffing up other installed programs in the process. I have not had that happen perfectly with third party apt repositories in the past.
1754[14:50:54] <Andy9> yeah i guess thats the reason
1755[14:51:13] <z8z> Well no that should not be the reason but why bother?
1756[14:51:29] <darxmurf> hi
1757[14:51:35] <z8z> Mounting the FS is just more comfortable and functional
1758[14:52:13] <Andy9> but the share is mounted atm - so why it cant play?
1759[14:52:25] <Andy9> VLC is unable to open the MRL 'smb://m-2/audio1/%5BFLAC%5D/Pink%20Floyd%20-%201979%20-%20The%20Wall%20(LP)%5BFLAC%5D/Pink%20Floyd%20-%201979%20-%20The%20Wall%20%5BLP%5D%20-%20A01%20-%20In%20the%20Flesh%C2%BF.flac'. Check the log for details.
1760[14:52:35] <darxmurf> is it possible to launch a GUI app over SSH but installed on a server without X installed?
1761[14:52:52] <z8z> that is not a mounted fs
1762[14:53:15] <z8z> You are using the protocol directly. Which should still work with vlc
1784[14:58:44] <darxmurf> deepy: I already use ssh -X with this machine but the OS is old and need to be reinstalled. At the moment there is a GNOME installed but the idea was to kick out all graphical stuff to keep a light system and run the app via ssh -X
1785[14:59:18] <Andy9> z8z: smbfs doesnt show up in synaptic when i search for it
1787[14:59:26] <atralheaven> Hi, how can I save the last 1MB of a stream (which is output of a command) to a file? I want to have the last 1MB of that stream saved, nothing more
1788[14:59:28] <Andy9> i mean it's not there at all
1789[14:59:40] <deepy> darxmurf: with X forwarding you'd need X running on the client
1790[14:59:47] <z8z> open the terminal and login as root
1791[14:59:49] <Andy9> search for smbfs brings "smb4k" only
1792[15:00:03] <z8z> then -> apt-get install smbfs
1794[15:00:32] <BazookaTooth> eh? wasn't thunar working when you left yesterday?
1795[15:01:38] <darxmurf> deepy: thanks, I'll do that then !
1796[15:01:41] <Andy9> z8z: E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) / E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), is another process using it?
1811[15:03:53] *** Quits: Matt12345 (~Matt12345@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you)
1812[15:04:10] <Andy9> ... / Package smbfs is not available, but is referred to by another package. / This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source / However the following packages replace it: / cifs-utils
1813[15:04:33] <z8z> ye install that
1814[15:04:33] <Andy9> so should i get that one?
1815[15:04:37] <Andy9> ok
1816[15:04:45] <z8z> didnt remember they put all together
1834[15:08:56] <anddam> with the exception that I would be adding a buster deb-src line rather than sid's
1835[15:09:00] <Andy9> z8z so thefolderiwanttomountin should be like /Music-on-Box2 or do i have to give it a full path, like /user/desktop/Music-on-Box2 ?
1844[15:10:33] <Andy9> oh ic, then just create shortcut to it on desktop?
1845[15:10:39] <z8z> Ye
1846[15:10:53] <z8z> then it's just like a physical folder
1847[15:11:10] *** Quits: ircarcs (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1848[15:11:11] <humpled> i just click on it in thunar
1849[15:11:17] <humpled> mpv plays
1850[15:11:43] <brutser> oiaohm: i did everything according to replaced-url
1851[15:12:26] <Andy9> humpled mpv is the player name?
1852[15:12:35] <Bushmills> There's also autofs, which can mount shares, exports and specified devices on demand, when accessing them. That can mount Windows shares too
1853[15:12:50] <Andy9> so many options :)
1854[15:13:04] <Bushmills> Support for underlying file system is still needed, though.
1855[15:13:08] <humpled> vlc works too
1856[15:13:26] <wwilliam> how do i make an user every time it creates dir or files to be own by him and a group?
1857[15:13:28] <z8z> Once you mounted you can use any player
1861[15:13:39] <brutser> oiaohm: now when booting it says: Booting from Hard Disk... MBR FA: but after that it does not continue
1862[15:14:09] <Andy9> humpled: when i open the share in thunar and click on selected file i get this: Your input can't be opened:
1863[15:14:09] <Andy9> VLC is unable to open the MRL 'smb://m-2/audio1/%5BFLAC%5D/Pink%20Floyd%20-%201987%20-%20A%20Momentary%20Lapse%20of%20Reason%20(2011%20ReMaster)%5BFLAC%5D/Pink%20Floyd%20-%201987%20-%20A%20Momentary%20Lapse%20of%20Reason%20-%2001%20-%20Signs%20of%20Life.flac'. Check the log for details.
1864[15:14:16] <wwilliam> i have a user that every time it creates somethis is owner:users i wanted to be owners:newgroup
1865[15:14:25] <wwilliam> everytime.
1866[15:14:26] <Bushmills> wwilliam, a user can only create dirs when he exists already
1867[15:14:32] <z8z> Andy9 can you access the folder regardless of the player?
1868[15:14:37] <Andy9> yes
1869[15:14:48] <z8z> Can you access the /mnt/fsfjasldkfjsfjkslfksdfjk folder you just mounted?
1871[15:14:50] <atralheaven> Habbie: I tried that, it seems it doesn't work, what I want to do is this: youtube-dl -f 91 'youtube link of a live stream' -o - | tail -c 1000000 > tmp, and then give the saved file to a player on another machine (which doesn't have access to youtube)
1879[15:16:13] <Bushmills> Or put user into that group as his default group
1880[15:16:18] <z8z> After you mounted the SMB filesystem into that folder, that folder should contain all the files from that network share
1881[15:16:21] <Andy9> z8z i open Thunar -> below under "network' i see this share -> click on it -> see all files there ; then when i click on file i get that error as pasted
1882[15:16:34] <z8z> No if you mounted you dont use the network anymore
1883[15:16:41] <z8z> The underlying system does that
1884[15:16:50] <Andy9> im really confused atm :(
1885[15:16:57] <wwilliam> Bushmills: change the Primary group?
1905[15:19:59] *** Quits: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1906[15:20:01] <atralheaven> Habbie: "youtube-dl -f 91 URL -o - | cvlc --no-video -" works, but I need to save the last 1MB of it to a file, so I can load it on the other machine
1907[15:20:04] <Andy9> 1st problem: i cant create new folder in /mnt
1917[15:24:41] <ncrowl> z8z: test yourself, all other files in that folder is readable /var/log , but not the file "lastlog" (messes up a colortail script I running)
1942[15:32:59] <z8z> Andy9: SOrry lost the connection
1943[15:33:01] <Andy9> also something happened - Thunar can't access that share on other machine anymore, now when i try to open it says "The file is of unknown type" ?
1944[15:33:09] <humpled> i copied all the contents of the iso including a folder that starts with a dot
1945[15:33:13] <z8z> can you try to replace smbfs with cifs?
1964[15:37:25] <Bushmills> Andy9, that's good, I suppose: freedom
1965[15:37:30] <Andy9> lol
1966[15:37:39] <Andy9> more like being walled-out
1967[15:37:44] <humpled> then move nearly everything out of the isolinux folder into the syslinux folder, except the files lib*.32, which you should get from the syslinux package instead brutser
1968[15:38:24] <humpled> i also installed the mbr from the syslinux package, these things are in /usr/lib/syslinux
1969[15:38:39] <z8z> Andy9: Your mission is to succeed with 1 command line xD
1970[15:38:49] <z8z> Just 1
1971[15:38:50] <brutser> humpled: hmm let me try to understand that, because i followed that debian guide to the T
1973[15:39:03] <Andy9> z8z: I think I finally guessed it's IP right, because this time i get diff error: mount error(115): Operation now in progress / Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)
1975[15:39:24] <Bushmills> omarek, you can run mkswap also from a running system, as long the partition isn't in use
1976[15:39:33] <Andy9> so if mount is in progress how it could be error?
1977[15:39:45] <z8z> path is correct?
1978[15:39:50] <brutser> humpled: so the first part you are doing the same? to prepare the usb, i need create a FAT16 partition, then install-mbr /dev/sdX - correct?
1979[15:39:58] <humpled> i've also made it work with just a default autoboot, for running live
1980[15:40:24] <omarek> Bushmills: That's the problem here, I can't fully boot the system. PSU died while machine was in sleep, now it drops into "emergency mode"
1981[15:40:30] <Bushmills> Andy9 it may be a server side limit set to restrict the number of times a user can mount a share
1982[15:40:31] <Andy9> i cant tell for sure, but i usually have my lan machines in that order (M-2 would be 192....102 and so on)
1983[15:40:39] <z8z> can you paste the commandline here? (removing your user, pass of course)
1984[15:40:39] <humpled> no i used dd if=/usr/lib/syslinux/mbr/mbr.bin of=/dev/sdX
1985[15:40:42] <omarek> Bushmills: Unless, perhaps, there are ways to run more sophisticated commands from "emergency mode"
1986[15:41:05] <omarek> humpled: WRONG. You forgot to add 'status=progress' !
1987[15:41:11] <humpled> :þ
1988[15:41:19] <humpled> it's tiny
1989[15:41:25] <brutser> humpled: ok, let me try to do it your way, i will restart
1998[15:42:40] <Andy9> z8z it is shared drive, entire drive is shared in windows
1999[15:42:47] <omarek> It drops into "emergency mode" right after "[OK] Reached target Network is Online"
2000[15:42:49] <Andy9> z8z its like a folder
2001[15:42:51] <humpled> i heard it's because everything needs to be the same version, tbh i'm not sure why i had so many problems but atm it's working
2003[15:43:01] <Bushmills> omarek, why not simply fix swap, then use it?
2004[15:43:10] <z8z> Andy9: YOu have antire drive C shared on the network? D:
2005[15:43:14] <z8z> *entire
2006[15:43:17] <omarek> Bushmills: How do I simply fix swap?
2007[15:43:32] <Andy9> z8z in this cmd the variable "/c$" doesn't mean "C:/" drive in windows, right?
2008[15:43:44] <Bushmills> the method was given already: mkswap
2009[15:43:56] <Bushmills> Then, after, swapon
2010[15:43:58] <Andy9> because it is not "C:" on that machine, it is different drive
2011[15:43:59] <anddam> should 'apt build-dep' install all dependencies for building and installing a package? I ran 'apt build-deb debhelper' then 'apt -b source' it and I got a missing dependency while installing the resulting deb file with dpkg replaced-url
2012[15:44:09] <z8z> Ye that is the drive
2013[15:44:14] <z8z> choose the correct one then
2014[15:44:28] <brutser> humpled: ok i dd that mbr.bin - now what i do next?
2015[15:44:42] <omarek> Bushmills: And that will work from a live USB? Because swapon won't.
2016[15:44:55] <Bushmills> If that's a "recurrent problem", then something else is amiss
2018[15:45:08] <omarek> Bushmills: Rather, swapon will do not what I want.
2019[15:45:09] <Andy9> z8z shoot... i don't know the drive letter, D or E probably... but Windows share it as //M-2/Audio1 - so shouldn't it be that name?
2081[15:57:39] <Bushmills> If that's the proper term
2082[15:57:49] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
2083[15:57:59] <Andy9> guys, something have changed after i installed whatever samba-something package earlier, because now Thunar can't open that share, even though it is listed under 'network'
2084[15:58:01] * Bushmills is no Windows expert
2085[15:59:09] <Andy9> in Thunar: "Windows Network" has nothing now, no machine shows up
2089[16:00:35] <Andy9> before i could open the "Audio1" share on "M-2" box (it is still as mounted? in Thunar) and copy files to this box to play, now i can't even do that: "Could not display: "smb://m-2/audio1"
2090[16:01:27] <Bushmills> Is Windows share still mounted?
2091[16:01:46] <Andy9> yes it is as it has been for past 20yrs lol
2092[16:02:19] <Bushmills> Mounted ... Oh your Linux box
2093[16:02:34] <Andy9> Bushmills: there is nothing wrong with my Windows boxes ;) i can access it from my phone on lan, so yes definitly it is up and running and shared
2094[16:03:18] <Bushmills> A simple "yes" or "no" would help
2095[16:03:45] <Andy9> i have something wron on this box, most likely i didnt install or set up something in debian :(
2096[16:04:02] <z8z> Andy9: the mount command should work
2097[16:04:42] <Andy9> how do i check if this cifs that replaced smbfs is working on my box? this is the only change in past half hr
2098[16:05:37] <z8z> Andy9: Well you can try just uninstalling it
2099[16:05:40] *** Quits: liepro (~liepro@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2100[16:06:02] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2101[16:06:11] <z8z> But you should be able to mount the damn cifs
2102[16:06:50] <Andy9> what is "cifs" ? virtual filesystem ?
2103[16:06:54] <Bushmills> As far we don't even know whether it's still mounted
2104[16:07:17] <Bushmills> Because Andy9 won't tell us
2111[16:08:23] <z8z> Andy9: cifs is almost same as smbfs (samba filesystem)
2112[16:08:24] <Andy9> my droid phone access that share with samba i just used total commander to access all the shares there
2113[16:08:31] <EmleyMoor> Since I did a new setup of Debian on my laptop, the top right Gnome menu no longer offers me suspend/hibernate buttons. Is there a package or extension I need?
2114[16:08:32] <Bushmills> CIFS is successor of SMB
2115[16:09:14] <z8z> oh you accessed with total commander? then you can get the precise path from total commander
2116[16:09:20] <z8z> and the mount command should work with that
2132[16:13:15] <Andy9> z8z my phone is Android; Total Commander on phone accessed it , the path is ///LAN/192.168. .... thats the difference "LAN" not "smb" or else
2173[16:15:56] <Andy9> z8z yes i am playing music on my phone from that share, i don't understand why you guys insist that there is something wrong with the share itself? it is not, the share is available, the lan box is up and running. The problem is is here on my debian box
2221[16:17:52] <Andy9> z8z that box been holding my music and sharing it on lan for almost 20yrs, it is working. All other machines see it and access it.
2301[16:25:38] <anddam> themill: having built 'libsigsegv2-dbgsym_2.12-2_amd64.deb libsigsegv2_2.12-2_amd64.deb libsigsegv-dev_2.12-2_amd64.deb' is there a way to "smartly" install those at once?
2302[16:25:56] <anddam> I mean something like 'apt install ./<debfiles>' as opposed to 'dpkg -i'
2303[16:26:13] <Andy9> z8z but please follow my thoughts: yesterday i installed samba, then Thunar could see my lan machines. Today i opened the share "audio1" on the lan box "M-2" in Thunar, could see all the olders n files, just couldn't play them from the share, had to copy the file first to this box. Then i came here, installed vlc, cifs, and now Thunar can't even open that share anymore - so isn't the problem somewhere with the package i installed as i
2304[16:26:13] <Andy9> think? something has to be setup?
2305[16:27:06] <z8z> try to remove cifs
2306[16:27:11] <z8z> that's the only test you can do
2307[16:27:18] <z8z> But still is weird
2308[16:27:37] <Andy9> whats the cmd? uninstall cifs ?
2309[16:27:49] <z8z> apt-get remove cifs-tools
2310[16:28:58] <Andy9> E: Unable to locate package cifs-tools ,- what is this E: ?
2359[16:38:13] <Andy9> ok i had a thought; maybe problem is with the workgroup name? windows bozes use workgroup named "HOMENET" (not default "WORKGROUP"), however name of the workgroup is meaningless imho since ANdroid tablets and phones see this "HOMENET" workgroup jas "Windows Network" or just "LAN Share" (depends on the app used), so i would think it shouldn't be the problem, but then i don't know linux
2367[16:40:44] <Andy9> tell that samba on this debian box is trying to access workgroup named "WORKGROUP" (which would be the default on windozes), and that's where it lists this debian box, and also lists "HOMENET" workgroup (but just the name of workgroup, not the windows boxes)
2411[16:52:08] <Andy9> pastebin.to also opened up pop-under window, with some shit lol
2412[16:52:15] <ratrace> holy cow, just realized dbus is no longer needed for systemd? debootstrap'ed buster has no dbus, minimal server installation works just fine.
2413[16:52:48] <greycat> There's a recent debian-user thread about dbus on servers.
2431[16:59:51] <nvz> because mine is on the pci bus 02:00.0 Unassigned class [ff00]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTS5227 PCI Express Card Reader (rev 01)
2452[17:03:44] <nvz> not yet, but we're working on it
2453[17:04:10] <johnfg> If this isn't a question to be answered here, please direct me where to go (but my server in question is apache2 on debian stretch).
2460[17:05:36] <jelly> johnfg: the same as in the VirtualHost definition?
2461[17:05:42] <nvz> cbthree: lines 7-8
2462[17:06:05] <nvz> ,pciid 8086:2296
2463[17:06:06] <judd> [8086:2296] is 'Atom/Celeron/Pentium Processor x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx Series SD Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'sdhci-pci', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
2464[17:06:12] <nvz> ,pciid 8086:2294
2465[17:06:13] <judd> [8086:2294] is 'Atom/Celeron/Pentium Processor x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx Series MMC Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'sdhci-pci', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
2495[17:14:52] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Judd is our bot that accesses the Ultimate Debian Database.
2496[17:14:55] <subcool> ok.. could someone explain this. Every time i start fresh on my install. I install windows, and then debian. Every time i install debian. Windows is no longer functional. at all.
2497[17:15:15] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, so how can i solve the issue?
2513[17:16:46] <johnfg> Now things are working properly.
2514[17:17:07] <greycat> wwilliam: if /jailed/home/axatr is your chroot dir, then you can clearly see it isn't owned by root.
2515[17:17:10] <nvz> cbthree: that mint forum links to a github with a workaround for a specific hardware bug.. that may or may not help you idk.. cause I know what those people had, I dont know what you have
2519[17:17:46] <greycat> Most likely you have absolutely no idea what it means to chroot an ssh session, and you should stop trying to do it.
2520[17:18:49] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Unfortunately there's no real standard fro SD card readers, so it's impossible to reliably get them working in Linux.
2521[17:19:24] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: From what I've seen, the OS doesn't see the reader as a device, it sees the card as a device once it's inserted.
2522[17:20:15] <wwilliam> ok i change tha ownership to root now trying to ssh just hangs here :
2523[17:20:17] <wwilliam> debug2: shell request accepted on channel 0
2530[17:22:29] *** jonvonb is now known as binbash
2531[17:22:52] *** Quits: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2532[17:22:54] <greycat> wwilliam: a chroot is a WHOLE SYSTEM created in a subdirectory, by something like debootstrap. If you chroot an ssh session, you are saying "I want the session to begin within my debootstrapped subdirectory, rather than /". So you have your own /jail/etc and /jail/usr and /jail/etc and /jail/home and so on. A COMPLETE system.
2533[17:23:25] <cbthree> nvz, have you seen my dmesg?
2539[17:24:16] <jelly> wwilliam: if there's no such complete system as greycat describes, a chrooted ssh user can use sftp to put and get remote files, but not a shell or any process
2540[17:24:16] <dvs> 2GB card?
2541[17:24:31] <greycat> wwilliam: most people who come here with questions containing "ssh" and "chroot" think that what they want is to "prevent the user from accessing the system outside of their home directory". Which may be a common and possibly even desirable goal, but ssh with chroot will not do that. Is not MEANT to do that.
2550[17:25:41] <nvz> cbthree: idk, cause I dont see any problem
2551[17:25:46] <jelly> wwilliam: configure your sshd not to chroot your user.
2552[17:26:19] <jelly> wwilliam: you already know what you did to enable chroot for ssh, and should be able to change that custom setup
2553[17:26:32] <nvz> cbthree: if you want some kinda explaination, those links you provided have them.. if you want some kinda step-by-step troubleshooting help, you first have to reproduce the issue
2559[17:27:30] <cbthree> ok, thanks. i will be back in a few minutes
2560[17:27:37] <nvz> cbthree: if you are currently facing the issue we can try resolve it, but we can't try things to resolve an issue that isnt occuring
2611[17:40:34] <nvz> cbthree: well there is a gpio error, which indicates a missing kernel feature
2612[17:40:37] <wwilliam> Thanks
2613[17:40:40] <wwilliam> greycat:
2614[17:41:02] <nvz> cbthree: however that message existed before..
2615[17:41:32] <cbthree> nvz, i am a not a kernel developer, is there a solution or workaround that will allow me to use microSD card after boot?
2616[17:41:34] <nvz> cbthree: the point was to give some information about the actual issue, if you don't have a card inserted that is not working, then you are not facing an issue
2617[17:41:54] <nvz> cbthree: as far as I know you have no issue to solve or work around
2620[17:42:21] <anddam> nvz: another satisfied customer.
2621[17:42:41] <cbthree> nvz, the dmesg that i sent you last was with the card inserted *after* boot
2622[17:42:42] <nvz> cbthree: all I can tell you if you can't reproduce the issue, and paste output with the issue occuring, is to try a newer kernel, or buy better hardware.
2623[17:43:11] <nvz> cbthree: well I asked you was there a card inserted and you said no
2624[17:44:12] <cbthree> nvz, buying is not an option, some people suggested 5.2.x but that is not available as a deb at present not even in backports. compiling a kernel is not something a newbie should do
2654[17:51:16] <nvz> cbthree: well lets start with what lsblk has to say
2655[17:52:11] <nvz> the kernel sees the card reader and has claimed it with the proper driver, its only complaint is failure to access the gpio, which is had before when it was working
2665[17:54:15] <nvz> my next query would be to udev.. but I'm not sure how to do that with it not being attached to the block layer.. will need another way to query it
2666[17:54:18] *** Quits: saptaks (~saptaks@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2667[17:54:26] *** Quits: dvs (~gilford@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2670[17:54:55] <cbthree> mmcblk0 is my 16GB built-in emmc "hard drive" where my OS is installed. mmcblk1 is the name of my 2GB microSD card which can only be seen if inserted before boot
2792[18:46:41] <raidensnake> I can get lightdm but nothing else
2793[18:47:15] <soda__hobart> hey everybody, what should I do if I need a package that is not in the repos of my current release? I am using Buster, but I would like to use this package: replaced-url
2812[18:54:19] <soda__hobart> What has to take place for it to be included in Testing or Stable? I guess testing, right? Re-packaging with the current dependencies?
2836[19:12:38] <zetuno> hi. how do i prevent an application from altering the system volume? somehow this app (zoom) is changing not only its applicaiton volume but the main system output volume
2837[19:13:27] <jhutchins_wk> zetuno: You'll need to ask zoom support.
2842[19:14:43] <zetuno> there's no cgroup/CAP/etc isolation for this?
2843[19:14:52] <zetuno> I have been in touch with them. they deny the problem
2844[19:15:04] <greycat> the "obvious" answer would be run run it as a user that doesn't have privileges to mess with the volume, but I'm guessing it's some sort of GUI thing and therefore you typically run it as you, the logged-in user
2845[19:15:05] <GNU\colossus> is anyone aware of a web-based application that's being developed with Debian as the primary deployment target/distribution channel?
2846[19:15:14] <GNU\colossus> (and that's available in Debian's repo :))
2854[19:18:20] <SerajewelKS> zetuno: i can think of a hack that might work depending on what audio subsystem it uses. guessing it uses ALSA but you'd have to verify with ldd/strace.
2862[19:20:38] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~grimkrieg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2863[19:20:44] <SerajewelKS> if it manipulates volume by calling a libasound C API (such as snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_volume_all) then in theory you can build a C library exposing a function with an identical signature that does nothing and preload it when running zoom
2866[19:21:25] <zetuno> SerajewelKS, linux-vdso?. theres no liba or libalsa in ldd results
2867[19:21:32] <jhutchins_wk> GNU\colossus: zoom's a proprietary group meeting app that does audio, video, desktop sharing, etc, so it needs access to the audio.
2891[19:27:23] <SerajewelKS> zetuno: odd that ldd doesn't list it as a dependency, i wonder if it probes a few audio systems at runtime and loads whichever one it finds
2894[19:28:02] <SerajewelKS> zetuno: if it's actually using pulseaudio APIs then you can do the same thing -- figure out the pulseaudio API that changes volume level of a sink, implement a no-op copy of that function in your own C library, and preload it in front when running zoom
2895[19:28:07] <greycat> /usr/bin/zoom might be a wrapper program that calls auxiliary binaries, or it might use dlopen() for all its A/V stuff, or it might just have statically linked all the A/V libs
2896[19:28:12] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2898[19:28:52] <SerajewelKS> greycat: right. the package declares a depencency on libpulse, so i'd have to think that's what's getting used eventually but it's not clear how it winds up in the process.
2899[19:28:57] <zetuno> probably dlopen instead of statically link, if it lists the dep in the dpkg
2900[19:29:01] <greycat> SerajewelKS: I'm no pulse guru for sure, but I imagine the pulse API is "send a message of the form ___ to the daemon".
2901[19:29:09] <zetuno> hmmm okay. checking the pulse api now
2905[19:29:50] <SerajewelKS> greycat: right but the C library takes care of the IPC details, so it would be silly for them to interact with the daemon directly
2909[19:30:29] <SerajewelKS> not much different than a lot of libasound calls which probably translate more or less into reads/writes/ioctls in /dev/snd/*
2974[19:50:25] <GNU\colossus> will setting 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive' during a dist-upgrade effectively make apt-get select all default choices presented by debconf?
3048[20:28:00] <martigan> Hope everyone is doing well today! I'f I have a sky lake processor and installed the intel-microcode from non free on a fresh install, received a bunch of errors about missing cpu firmware because I forgot to install firmware-misc so I rebooted and installed firmware-misc. Does the order I installed them in matter?
3049[20:28:29] <martigan> I'm not getting missing firmware errors on boot.
3054[20:29:38] <Sleaker> does jsvc 1.0.x not work with java 11 or something?
3055[20:29:44] <jhutchins_wk> Ah, our old friend webmin: "In an unnerving twist, when a critical zero-day vulnerability was reported in a Unix administration tool, called Webmin" replaced-url
3078[20:35:21] <Sleaker> uhh so.. 1.0.x doesn't support JVM 9+
3079[20:36:13] <martigan> Is lm-sensors the recomended way to monitor CPU temp and fan speed? Is anyone using anything different? I'm getting CPU throttled warnings via dmesg but the temp shown in sensors is always right around 38c
3088[20:37:07] <Sleaker> okay.. so openjdk-8-jre isn't available on buster, and jsvc wasn't updated to 1.1.x+ so jsvc doesn't work out of the box on buster at all....
3093[20:37:28] <cbthree> Has anyone here who owns a Samsung Chromebook 3 (CELES) managed to get its microsd slot working? If you insert a card *before* boot, that card shows up (automounted) and works kind of ok. If you unmount the card and reinsert it, its not automounted, you have to mount it using the command line. Moreover, if you insert the card *after* you boot it is neither recognized nor automounted and cannot be mounted using the command li
3105[20:39:03] <Sleaker> greycat: this seems like a problem of someone forgetting to include an updated version of jsvc into buster is all. should I report it onto the jsvc package?
3106[20:39:10] <Bushmills> martigan: lm-sensors offers mostly a way to read sensors, not really monitoring them. some read thermal info from /sys/somewhere, some other packages reading hardware sensors exist, and some acrtual monitoring tools depend on one or the other for accessing thermal data
3133[20:44:49] <medfly> I have a very esoteric problem. I built a cross compiler on both debian 9.9 and another OS. the cross compiler fails if built on debian. Both are using GCC 7.4.0.
3134[20:44:54] <martigan> htop is a better option? I think I may have a fan issue, I've been trying to trouble shoot this for days now with no luck. It's on a new T470s I just picked up. I tried installing buster from a usb made with UNetbootin before reading it was a bad idea and thought that maybe that was part of the issue. So reinstalled with a USB made with dd, the fan kicked on right away, thought the problem was solved but
3135[20:45:00] <martigan> still getting these errors. Going to look into adjusting the throttling temp via bios now.
3185[20:59:05] <medfly> cbthree: from the description it's "microSD card reader driver does not support card-detect"
3186[20:59:31] <Sleaker> I find it odd that no one proposed updating jsvc either :-/
3187[20:59:42] <greycat> ,popcon jsvc
3188[20:59:43] <judd> Popcon data for jsvc: inst: 3413, vote: 1478, old: 1821, recent: 113, nofiles: 1
3189[20:59:56] <Bushmills> martigan: there's a script in one package which changes fan duty cycle by controlling the pcm output fan is connected to by temperature. unluckily I forgot the name of the script and the package it was in.
3190[21:00:08] <Bushmills> it could actually be in lm-sensors
3192[21:00:13] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3193[21:00:25] <medfly> cbthree: a lot of drivers can have this issue. find if a newer linux kernel fixes it, and find which commit fixes it. if it doesn't, report to upstream.
3194[21:00:31] <medfly> ...I dont' linux much, though
3203[21:03:10] <deadmarshal> hi. I installed an app named adminer, it's for databases, but I can't find it in applications. and terminal says it's installed already. I can't open from terminal either
3204[21:03:28] *** Quits: Margolis (~Margolis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3205[21:03:45] <greycat> deadmarshal: use "dpkg -L adminer" to see the files it installed, see /usr/share/doc/adminer/* for instructions, if any
3211[21:04:16] <Bushmills> seems you access it by web browser
3212[21:04:24] <greycat> that's my guess too
3213[21:04:31] <martigan> Bushmills: Thank you, I had seen that package and about to dig into it after looking at adjusting throttling temps via BIOS. I would just think my fan was taking a crap but when I picked the machine up it had Win10 on it and the fan was working fine. Also when in the graphical installer the fan seems to be working fine.
3214[21:04:34] <greycat> probably something in /usr/share/doc/adminer/ will tell you how
3217[21:05:49] <nvz> cbthree: the problem is the card reader apparently uses gpio for card detection and for whatever reason the kernel is unable to use this method
3242[21:11:50] <greycat> there might not BE a "binary" that you execute directly. it might be a thing that runs as a CGI script in a web browser, and you point firefox at a URL or something.
3243[21:11:58] <greycat> in a web server*
3244[21:12:21] <greycat> or it could implement its own HTTP protocol thingy, like CUPS, and then you point your browser at that.
3252[21:13:45] <greycat> also /usr/share/doc/adminer/readme.txt and so on
3253[21:14:19] <greycat> but anyway, it looks like a PHP thing that is intended to be run by a web server
3254[21:14:35] <cbthree> nvz, if memory serves me well, some people have been able to solve this issue upgrading to 5.2.x. The problem is that 5.2.x is not even in backports
3255[21:14:38] <Bushmills> greycat: you have "leave" messages turned off, right?
3256[21:14:46] <jhutchins_wk> I suppose you could run it with php cli.
3257[21:14:48] <wroathe> Hmm, I guess I wasn't wrong about it. Anyone know which package contains libmariadb.a?
3258[21:14:51] <greycat> no, but I don't necessarily *read* them all
3271[21:17:09] <dpkg> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD Extensions 2) was introduced in 2001 with the Pentium 4 processor and licensed by AMD for the Athlon 64 processor (Paris architecture). The Athlon XP processor isn't capable of SSE2.
3272[21:17:11] <Bushmills> mackerel449: yes - it's also available on non-x86 CPUs
3273[21:17:16] <cbthree> nvz, thank you
3274[21:17:25] <greycat> Yes, there are even x86 CPUs older than the Pentium 4 still supported, but just barely.
3275[21:17:47] <nvz> cbthree: its a cpu specific gpio bug.. so yeah its possible it has been fixed
3281[21:19:27] <nvz> cbthree: if you have any nvidia, virtualbox, or whatever kernel modules that need built, you'd also need the headers package installed
3284[21:20:02] <dpkg> apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "aptitude install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>.
3285[21:20:26] <Bushmills> !dlocate
3286[21:20:27] <dpkg> it has been said that dlocate is now similar to <locate>, can be used to locate the package a file belongs to; "update-dlocatedb" to update the database to include recently installed files - has similar functionality as dpkg -S, but is faster.
3289[21:23:22] <cbthree> nvz, linux-image-amd64_5.2+106_amd64.deb is a 7.9K file! there must be something wrong with it
3290[21:23:33] <greycat> It's a metapackage.
3291[21:23:38] <greycat> !Metapackage
3292[21:23:38] <dpkg> A metapackage is a package that normally exists for convenience. It has no content, it just depends on other packages so that you don't have to have a hundred things on an apt-get/aptitude command line. The version of a metapackage can be misleading -- look at what it depends on instead (see the kde metapackage for an example).
3296[21:24:46] <greycat> "linux-image-amd64" exists only to depend on the actual kernel version (linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64 at this time), and will be updated if a new kernel ABI version is introduced
3305[21:29:07] <greycat> A backport is born whenever a Debian developer decides to birth one.
3306[21:29:11] <nvz> cbthree: idk, eventually I would imagine.. it took a long time to get into sid even.. there was a 5.0 in experimental for quite a long time
3307[21:29:28] <nvz> there are a lot of transitions going on right now that have things tied up
3308[21:30:24] <nvz> cbthree: the important question is, does it detect insertion/removal of an SD card on your system
3311[21:31:34] <cbthree> nvz, my internet connection is dead slow at the moment. will report back later
3312[21:31:44] <nvz> ,pciid 10ec:5227
3313[21:31:45] <judd> [10ec:5227] is 'RTS5227 PCI Express Card Reader' from 'Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.' with kernel module 'rtsx-pci' in stretch. See also replaced-url
3321[21:34:55] *** Quits: spiros (~spiros@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3322[21:35:13] <nvz> yeah my card reader doesn't seem to be working.. that driver is loaded but I see no mention of it in dmesg, only barely shows up in the PCI map
3323[21:35:43] <nvz> I'd never tried to use it though.. thought about maybe using it for a luks removable key.. but I suppose I'd have to get it working first :D
3324[21:35:43] *** Quits: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3326[21:36:21] <cbthree> nvz, not working with buster' s defaul 4.19 kernel or 5.2.x?
3327[21:36:21] <oft_gegong> I should just wipe my hard drive and install Debian 10 and install every package in the free contrib and non-free repos
3328[21:36:59] <greycat> oft_gegong: that's literally not possible. There are some mutual exclusions.
3329[21:37:01] <nvz> cbthree: just buster kernel.. and idk that its not working cause I never even tried to use it.. I just know there is no mention of it in dmesg.. nothing like yours shows
3334[21:38:26] <nvz> cbthree: mine is different than yours though, yours is built into your CPU, mine is a seperate chip on the PCI bus somewhere made by realtek, not intel
3367[21:59:21] <ayjay_t> so i'm trying to customize logwatch so that a) it only reports specific ips for failed access attempts if they are over > number and b) to eliminate a ton of "Disconnect*" lines from the "Unkown statements" list
3377[22:02:00] <ayjay_t> haha thanks jhutchins_wk , i think yeah i mean, its pearl so
3378[22:02:15] <OS-5858> ddd
3379[22:02:33] <somiaj> My limited experience found that supressing messages and just giving a count (at least for apache) wasn't to hard, unsure about the > number though
3380[22:02:59] <jhutchins_wk> ayjay_t: Aparently the people who wrote it find it perfectly to write/modify the rules, so they don't think there's anything to explain.
3431[22:21:52] *** Quits: Godzila (~Godzila@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3432[22:21:59] *** Quits: brutser (57434136@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3433[22:22:25] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3434[22:22:43] <oft_gegong> off the top of your head do you guys know grub parameters for nvidia cards just in case I don't get to the Debian gui installer with Debian 10?
3448[22:27:42] <jhutchins_wk> grub boots to the console before x and the kernel modules get loaded, and pretty much every i86 card out there will default to a sane console mode without any extra modules.
3449[22:28:19] <jhutchins_wk> oft_gegong: Getting the GUI working with 3D acceleration can be an ordeal, but it can be done.
3524[22:53:22] <nvz> martigan: ah, well idk.. usually we just deal with things like that here.. my T440 seems to rarely turn the fan on at all.. I can go hours without it turning it on it would seem
3525[22:53:36] <zellfaze> I figured it out.
3526[22:53:37] <martigan> Keep getting throttled errors in dmesg due to temp but the fan turns on about 50% of the time. Looking for someone else running the same combo to see if they had any issues. Reddit has some threads about sky lake cpu's getting throttled but it's all windows that I've found so far.
3527[22:53:50] <zellfaze> NOPASSWD: needs to be before the commands not before the user/group declaration
3543[22:58:33] <nvz> I'm using the mate-panel sensors applet with libsensors and udisk2 for the ssd temp
3544[22:58:57] <martigan> fancontrol was another package that was mentioned to me in here that I was going to look into. But it really just seems like I'm getting throttled for no reason. The errors show up on the unlock screen at boot.
3545[22:58:58] <nvz> ibm-acpi is avaliable for the fan, but I'm not monitoring that, I'm using the libsensors one
3546[23:00:40] <martigan> have you played with adjusting the throttling temp in BIOS at all? I would assume not if you aren't having any issues.
3553[23:03:01] <nvz> no, I haven't looked at the bios util since I first got the machine and disabled all the security features, uefi, tpm, computrace..etc
3554[23:03:08] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3555[23:03:15] <cbthree> nvz, yes i still see that gpio error with the card inserted before boot and with the card inserted after boot
3557[23:04:02] <nvz> cbthree: I'm fairly certain thats the issue right there.. I mean if the kernel is TELLING YOU it can't detect card over gpio.. thats a pretty specific clue there :P
3558[23:04:08] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3560[23:04:22] <nvz> cbthree: cause the kernel IS detecting the card reader, loading the driver, claiming it, and it works if the BIOS detects the card so..
3563[23:05:02] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3564[23:05:24] <cbthree> nvz, are you saying that it is the bios problem/fault?
3565[23:05:26] <nvz> cbthree: for the kernel to be saying that someone had to have programed a routine to check pinctrl for gpio detection and made a provision for it failing and displaying that message..
3568[23:06:32] <nvz> cbthree: no, it seems to be the way that driver either the sdhci_pci or pinctrl for that cpu was programmed in the kernel doesnt jive with your specific hardware.. its either a bug/quirk or just works differently than all other hw that was designed for.. so the issue is in one of those two places in the kernel
3571[23:07:06] <nvz> cbthree: and if this is the case, it should be easily patchable and possibly even worked around by somehow TELLING it when the card is inserted
3572[23:07:13] <cbthree> nvz, what can i do myself to overcome the issue?
3574[23:08:13] <cbthree> gotta go. will be back later
3575[23:08:22] <nvz> cbthree: well I would suggest first and foremost filing a bug on our BTS against the kernel with all this info.. I could help you compile a bug report. Then if you want you could ping lkml on the matter, but the kernel maintainers for debian would probably do that anyhow, but if you did it, you'd probably get the process rolling faster
3576[23:08:57] *** Quits: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3577[23:09:13] <nvz> cbthree: then if you really wanted to get into the nitty gritty you'd have to discover more about how these PCI card readers and GPIO work and try see what if any indication on the system you can get that the card is being inserted
3578[23:10:10] * nvz has a PCI card reader that also doesn't work but is not the same hw/issue/driver
3580[23:10:28] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3581[23:10:33] <omnio> hi, I was wondering, does someone have some experience with screen readers and IRC? In the past I used a combination of yasr+eflite+irssi but it seems to segfault nowadays. Anything that works is ok
3585[23:11:51] <nvz> omnio: I've certainly heard of users in here doing such things might be worth sending that question out to debian-user mailinglist to reach a wider audience
3586[23:12:29] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3599[23:15:39] <nvz> the mailing lists often get responses in under 6hrs and are more useful for more obscure issues that aren't super-pressing but you'd like to get good knowledgable response to
3631[23:26:27] <nvz> martigan: yeah, it might mean that if I had a different mother :P
3632[23:26:27] <Andy9> win2k was crap at begining as any win release, but by service pack 4 it became very stable (my home file server runs w2k for yeah - almost 2 decades lol - and its uptimes are always above 100 days broke only by power down)
3633[23:27:16] <nvz> martigan: I'm a certified technician and she didnt even ask for my help.. she asked my younger brother instead who couldnt even manage what I'd done which is prove her data is still in tact and retrivable
3634[23:27:46] *** Quits: pyfgcr (~pyfgcr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3635[23:27:53] <nvz> though to be fair, everyone knows my response is gonna be "windows is junk, this wouldn't happen on Debian" :P
3637[23:28:32] <teclo-> yeah but M*crosoft still sells its products
3638[23:28:44] <Andy9> nvz lol i had same case in my family :) my father bought some dumb android box just to watch tv off the web without even askimg for my help lol
3639[23:29:09] <nvz> I was mildly intrigued by the hololens thing.. but its not ready yet.. still too expensive, poor battery life, and requires win10.. ugh..
3640[23:29:27] <Andy9> while there is pc connected to tv that is set to watch everything that's out there (kodi) lol
3641[23:30:10] <nvz> Andy9: I'd managed to stiff arm my father into using Debian years ago now.. he's been using it exclusively for probably 6 years or so.. he's still on Stretch at the moment. I try not to update him unnecessarily
3643[23:30:40] <nvz> Andy9: only compromise I had to make with him is installing Microsoft Office, he swears its easier to use than libreoffice, I think he's nuts
3644[23:30:45] <Andy9> win10 is terrible spy, just look up at her router's logs - it calls msoft mothership constantly and u can't stop it from within windows, no software firewall works
3645[23:30:53] <martigan> lol, legit think that mint is now the best windows replacement for my parents. Got my father convinced, mom is still on some old dell running win10. 50% success rate so far I guess isn't to bad.
3647[23:31:23] <martigan> My mom still writes checks though no matter how many times I try to put a stop to it.
3648[23:31:38] <Andy9> actually i start using checks :P
3649[23:31:43] <martigan> So she may be a lost cause.
3650[23:31:50] <Andy9> i find it safest way to pay bills lol
3651[23:31:51] <martigan> What? Why? For what?
3652[23:32:02] <nvz> My brothers HDD died recently, I'd given him a new hdd 3x the size, doubled his ram, preinstalled Debian 10, had setup crossover and his games with all the expansions, it was all working flawlessly, and still he'd just bought a new SSD half the size of his original hdd and installed win7 back on it
3653[23:32:20] <nvz> you just can't help some people.. rather piss with crappy EOL software
3655[23:33:29] <Andy9> because some companies will still charge ur acct even when u closed it and so on... after like 10th time with my previous isp charging my acct twice i decided to open separate acct at bank, blocked any possibility of web payment or even direct payments and using it only to pay bills by paper checks by mail lol
3667[23:37:30] <martigan> Just make sure you mail them in a clear envalope. Like Virgin Media says about mailing you your plain text passwords "Posting it to you is secure, as it's illegal to open someone else's mail."
3690[23:41:51] <Andy9> martigan im not worry about privacy; the checkbook acct gets money only when needed, otherwise has some pennies lol, hackers welcome lol
3694[23:42:53] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3695[23:43:21] <Andy9> i wish i could use checks to pay on ebay and such too :(
3696[23:43:27] <teclo-> Andy9: except there are many shortcomings to checks.... Someone sends to you a check in the mail... After say, one week, you still don't have received the mail
3699[23:43:47] <teclo-> and since you don't have the mail you don't have the check and you don't have the money
3700[23:43:56] <teclo-> Andy9: what are you gonna do in that situation ?
3701[23:43:59] <martigan> Andy9: It's not so much for privacy as you have to give it access to your bank account, it allows you to generate debit card numbers the lock to the first merchant to use them and you can set spend limits or deactive them/pause them as needed.
3705[23:45:17] <Andy9> teclo no, i understand that rotfl! checks are not good way to send money in almost any case, but to pay bills they are WAY better than giving your CC number or allowing direct payment to be swiped of off your acct by any company
3706[23:46:10] *** Quits: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3707[23:46:13] <teclo-> Andy9: especially that, say it's 100 EUR check
3710[23:46:27] <Andy9> martigan, as i said when i set up the "checks" acct i specifically restricted it to checks only, even refused to take the debit card for it they wanted to give me at the bank
3711[23:46:32] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3712[23:46:38] <teclo-> you tell the guy who owes you 100 EUR "Hey didn't get the check..."
3713[23:46:45] <teclo-> Perhaps he didn't send the check
3714[23:46:49] <teclo-> Andy9: or worse...
3715[23:47:08] <Andy9> teclo i wouldn't accept check from anyone lol I opened checking acct to SEND checks, not receive them
3716[23:47:17] <teclo-> Andy9: perhaps he's gonna think you did get the check but you did not cash it yet
3739[23:50:40] <Andy9> teclo i guess you missed begining of this conversation - i had many cases when some companies debit when they shouldn't, most notorious was my previous ISP (they even charged my acct monthly fee TWO months after i kicked them out and weren't their customer, bastards) thats why i opened separate acct just to use check payments anywhere i could. And didn't have "error" charges from anyone ever since :)
3770[23:58:08] <nvz> American Express Bluebird, costs nothing to sign up.. they let you make up to 4 family accounts.. I use those to pay things online.. transfer funds to the linked accounts just enough to cover the transaction
3771[23:58:44] <Andy9> nvz i will look into that, is it related to Amex CC?
3774[23:59:04] <nvz> they have limits and fees, but the fees only apply if you do something like cash a check via photo and want the money instantly, or use an out of network ATM to withdraw.. and the limits on transaction are higher than most broke people would ever reach.. its like 100k/yr limit
3775[23:59:33] <nvz> Andy9: yes its through American Express, but its a normal bank.. can write checks, use a debit card..etc.
3776[23:59:48] <Andy9> btw guys, if you use CC to pay online use Amex, that's the only card that never failed to reverse any charges or when something didn't arrive from ebay, not kiddin