33[00:22:09] <SerajewelKS> jack_play comes close but when i stop the transport and seek back to 00:00 and press play, i get a short amount of audio from the last position before it starts playing at 00:00 again
46[00:30:15] <Bushmills> it's not installed specifically for any php version - it's either installed or it isn't
47[00:30:16] <tpanarch1st> Bushmills: i'm using apt does that matter at all :)
48[00:30:23] <SerajewelKS> rant: jack is a lot more flexible so you can always run pulse on top of jack and then you can patch whatever to whatever in jack, no need for virtual output devices. you just have one source patched to two sinks.
54[00:31:58] <tpanarch1st> oh sorry Bushmills please don't read into that
55[00:32:09] <tpanarch1st> i'm simply asking if it makes any difference :) If it doesn't that's cool!
56[00:32:50] <rant> ah ok, I had to kill pulseaudio and let it restart after adding the sink
57[00:32:55] <SerajewelKS> rant: i think pulse's approach is to avoid resampling when necessary; pulse can drive multiple outputs using each output's clock independently, where jack uses one hardware device as the master clock and resamples for the other devices. so since everything in jack uses the same clock, you can patch whatever to whatever.
58[00:33:03] <rant> now its playing out of the laptop and the bluetooth
59[00:33:18] <tpanarch1st> Bushmills: will it hurt doing it with dpkg when it was most likely installed with apt
60[00:33:28] <SerajewelKS> rant: so for pulse to patch one source to two sinks, it has to add a resampling step to synchronize the clocks for the two outputs. the merge sink is where that happens.
61[00:33:39] <Bushmills> "how do I check that curl is installed" -> dpkg -l ... independent of whether you use aptitude, apt-get, apt, synaptic or whatever package installer frontend
62[00:33:39] <rant> normally in an enclosed space my bluetooth speaker is plenty.. but out here in the open some extra speakers doesn't hurt
66[00:34:30] <SerajewelKS> rant: it's particularly fun to export one pulse sink over the network and merge local and remote interfaces, then you have precisely synchronized playback on multiple computers :) of course on wifi it's finicky but works pretty well on wired.
67[00:34:34] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
68[00:35:05] <SerajewelKS> i actually killed a crap modem/wifi/ethernet unit doing that, the switch logic chip was cheap and overheated when i tried pulse over a network
69[00:35:45] <rant> these laptop speakers arent much but it makes a difference having their extra tweeter sound coming out from a different location than the JBL Charge 4
70[00:36:20] <rant> there does seem to be a delay though
167[01:35:41] <SerajewelKS> rant: you would run pulse on jack using the jack sink, yes. you can create multiple such sinks to create multiple distinct audio streams in jack.
175[01:41:03] <tpanarch1st> hey bushmills was kind enough to try and explain this to me before but i can't for the life of me understand how to read it - replaced-url
176[01:41:03] <SerajewelKS> ZaZaGX: ^
177[01:42:06] <ZaZaGX> sounds like an energy drink
183[01:45:57] <inter-link> I just created a new user (had to manually create the /home/user directory) but they can't use ls.. is there a special way to set up a user account?
184[01:46:04] <themill> tpanarch1st: first column is "Desired" which is i for Installed. second column is "Status" which is i for Installed. third column is Error which is blank for none.
228[02:00:01] <tpanarch1st> sure, i use ispconfig, that in turn allows me to switch between php versions and in turn i run systems that run best in different versions of php
229[02:00:15] <tpanarch1st> but i obviously want to keep as many dependencies going as possible
230[02:00:25] *** Quits: nuuuciano_ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
258[02:07:55] <dpkg> tpanarch1st: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
259[02:07:56] <tpanarch1st> i did****
260[02:08:01] <dvs> tpanarch1st, is your /etc/apt/sources.list.d dir empty?
337[02:36:14] <_Cute_Kitty_> hi i installed wicd and it won't start. typing sudo wicd-client yields this error....
338[02:36:16] <_Cute_Kitty_> ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.63:/org/wicd/daemon/wireless: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying
339[02:36:17] <_Cute_Kitty_> warning: ignoring exception org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.63 was not provided by any .service files
340[02:36:19] <_Cute_Kitty_> ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.63:/org/wicd/daemon: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying
341[02:37:42] <_Cute_Kitty_> this all happened after i deleted .wicd folder in home, and the /etc/wicd folder
342[02:37:51] <_Cute_Kitty_> because i was trying to completely reinstall wicd
343[02:37:54] <_Cute_Kitty_> and now it's broken
344[02:38:26] <_Cute_Kitty_> i also purged and removed network-manager from my system so it's not causing any conflicts
345[02:38:43] *** Quits: blehblah10 (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
395[03:02:24] <_Cute_Kitty_> with synaptic, i just marked all the packages that were installed under wicd search for complete removal, then fixed broken packages option within synaptic, then marked wicd for install
500[04:51:03] <martigan> Hey looking for some help with buster on a T470s and I'm googled out so I'm coming here, 2 questions: I have a kaby lake i7-7600U and think that I need to disable hyper threading in bios but or update the microcode and can't find either of those two things. Is this still an issue? All the documentation I can find seems to be from 2017
505[04:54:07] <martigan> Q2: I'm getting some errors at boot "CPUn: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" and "CPUn: Package temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled" and when I check dmesg I continually see them as well. When I run sensors everything is at 38.0C max.
612[07:04:09] <martigan> No luck checking temp in bios, couldn't find the temp settings and from the lenovo forum I don't think you are able to. sensors shows "fan1 0 RPM". I think I may have found one of my issues, I'm getting the temp errors in dmesg still and the fan never kicks on or shows movement in sensors. Looked for a way to test the fan and came accross the fancontrol package. Would this allow me to manually turn the
613[07:04:15] <martigan> fan on? Or any other trouble shooting advice?
614[07:04:43] <martigan> about to cool this thing off by running it at the bottom of the pool if I can't figure these warnings out. lol
639[07:33:03] *** Quits: Iarfen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
640[07:34:37] <newtodeb> hello guys someone got time to answer a question about a script for a screen session? This script works without problems on root but not on my systemuser where my session is running
641[07:35:35] <ratrace> newtodeb: what does it do?
644[07:37:53] <newtodeb> the script itself opens up a terminal session with "script /dev/null" so i can attach to the screensession from another user, the best part comes if i change the "paragraphs" in the script i can use it on my systemuser but not on root, both use /bin/bash as default shell
646[07:39:30] <newtodeb> its not that i need it to run on my terraria user but im interested as why this is not working on my terraria user, the script itself is used with the shellcommand "terrariad attach" and its just a if function so i dont need to type in the screen commands all the time
648[07:40:42] <newtodeb> first i thought it is an permission problem but that cant be because now i copied it to my home directory and "chowned" it to my user's group and the user itself
705[08:27:53] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
706[08:28:03] <Haohmaru> there was some software, perhaps like a webbrowser addon that "opens" every banner in such a way as to try to discourage those who put the banners there or some such
707[08:28:11] <Haohmaru> does anyone know how it was called?
1005[11:14:30] <ayekat> one can also `sudo -i` for launching a login shell - and simply `su` may "work" on some distros because some distros have merged sbin and bin
1006[11:14:52] <ayekat> (but since they've left the channel, this is just some random trivia into the void, I guess)
1007[11:15:13] <jelly> !next
1008[11:15:13] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
1009[11:16:02] * alkisg put a user password in the installer, and lost the ability to `su -`, but the worst side effect was that he lost the ability for "recovery mode" in grub too :/
1097[11:56:20] <BCMM> it's a legacy part of the architecture from before plug-and play - there's just four memory addresses that the operating system is expected to know are reserved for serial interfaces (which may or may not actually exist)
1124[12:13:45] <alkisg> Am I right in thinking that my buster-gnome boots to xorg instead of wayland due to lack of some firmware, and if so, which one?
1125[12:13:46] <alkisg> No "kernel drives in use" there: replaced-url
1134[12:18:56] <BCMM> alkisg: iirc it falls back to xorg if accelerated graphics isn't working, and firmware is one reason accelerated graphics might not be working
1135[12:19:14] <BCMM> alkisg: you can check dmesg for that - the graphics driver will make some noise if it doesn't have the firmware it needs
1136[12:21:30] <alkisg> BCMM: I saw firmware messages in dmesg but not for amd; just for the network cards... I tested in an intel-based client and wayland worked though, so that must be it; thank you
1148[12:28:19] <alkisg> BCMM: hrm; sorry; I ran this from the affected computer and I typed it; I probably typed a letter wrong :/
1149[12:29:38] <BCMM> one nice thing about the debian pastebin is that you can view recent pastes without the url
1150[12:31:09] <uio> Hi. My computer has had a very rough time with 'Stable' this morning. I just 'upgraded' from 9 yesterday. I plugged in my usb to start my daily backup with deja-dup. The backup hung, Thunar froze and wouldn't open again. I stopped the backup process with the button provided in deja-dup and tried to start it again, but it wouldn't work. During this time I tried to open gnome-disks to see what might be going on with the usb drive. I entered the
1151[12:31:10] <uio> password at prompt, but nothing would come up after. I eventually decided to logout and back in, but this didn't solve any of this. So I shutdown, but the shutdown process had all these 'a stop job is running for Session 11' or for '16' or for 'user manager for UID 1001' with a little time counter behind. Then it said 'Failed unmounting /media/work/usb_backup' and 'Failed to send WATCHDOGs1 notification message: Connection refused.' Then it
1152[12:31:10] <uio> said that 'Reached targe: unmoun All Filesystems' and 'Reached target Poweroff'. It just hung at this last one and I had to do a hard shutdown, usb drive in and all. So, I guess I've mixed a lot in there but my quesions are: what is up with deja-dup? Did I corrupt the usb with hard poweroff? Also, what are all these stop jobs (never used to see them, or not for so long. I got them yesterday too, but at least it shutdown eventually). And the
1153[12:31:15] <uio> real question is: where is the real 'Stable'?
1154[12:31:23] <zamuro> !flood
1155[12:31:24] <dpkg> It's considered impolite to paste many lines of text on IRC. Please don't do it. Pasting one line is fine. Pasting two lines you can usually get away with. Pasting three lines will get you insulted. Pasting four or more lines will get you kicked. If you want to paste, ask me about <paste>
1156[12:31:33] <uio> Not a paste.
1157[12:31:45] <uio> Just so many issues.
1158[12:32:12] <ZaZaGX> too much to read
1159[12:32:13] <BCMM> zamuro: just a really long line, i think. irc has a maximum message length, and clients will break up long lines automatically.
1160[12:32:42] <petn-randall> uio: Sounds like you're either not running a clean Debian, or your hardware is corrupted.
1161[12:32:54] <petn-randall> uio: Or did you try to backup during upgrade?
1162[12:33:24] <uio> petn-randall, All was well in 9. Backed up before upgrade. Upgraded. 10 has all these issues.
1163[12:33:36] <zamuro> Might've just as well be a stackexchange question though.
1164[12:33:59] <uio> zamuro, Sure.
1165[12:34:22] <petn-randall> No need for that
1166[12:34:48] <petn-randall> uio: Can you paste the output of `apt-get dist-upgrade`, and `apt-cache policy`?
1183[12:41:05] <uio> Also, I really don't think it's related, but just in case, 10 broke my sound input and output. I had to follow the bot instructions about removing the daemon for timidity.
1184[12:41:24] <uio> petn-randall, I'll try again, but that is honestly what I thought I got. Let me try.
1185[12:41:52] <uio> petn-randall, It's for sudo apt-cache policy, right?
1186[12:42:05] <petn-randall> uio: No, `apt-get dist-upgrade`.
1187[12:42:16] <petn-randall> It will either output nothing, or more than one package name.
1203[12:48:30] <z8z> Where can i find some documentation on how to set up with gnome-remote-desktop introduced in buster?
1204[12:49:02] <uio> petn-randall, Just a quick question about the kernel output: is it sensitive? What information is in it?
1205[12:49:23] <uio> petn-randall, No network info?
1206[12:53:22] <uio> petn-randall, For apt-get install numix-gtk-theme it's saying that some packages will be removed with autoremove and that numix-gtk-theme will be updated.
1207[12:53:34] <uio> petn-randall, Should I go ahead with the installs?
1256[13:11:26] <Bliepo> And yes, oldstable is more stable than ´stable´, but will only get security updates for about a year
1257[13:11:28] <ayekat> uio: you may want to use 'robust' in that context, to avoid confusion, since 'stable' usually (and especially for debian releases) means something else
1264[13:13:41] <uio> ayekat, Come now, word play aside, calling something 'Stable' and then having no sound and not being shutdown makes one ask oneself if words have meaning.
1265[13:13:58] <Bliepo> I should mention it´s not guaranteed that everything will be fixed in the first point release (normally it is though). Always read the release notes to make sure.
1266[13:14:23] <uio> Bliepo, Interesting. I totally should have looked into that. There was just so much hype around 10 that I thought it would be good.
1274[13:15:36] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1275[13:16:12] <uio> Bliepo, Your link is giving me '<The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.'
1276[13:16:41] <uio> petn-randall, Sorry to bother, just wondering if you were able to find anything.
1278[13:17:40] <ayekat> uio: words do have meaning, but 'stable release' in this context means something else, so insisting that the word should mean something else is silly IMHO
1291[13:20:45] <uio> ayekat, I get that. I just consider sound, data security and being able to shutdown to be fairly basic functions.
1292[13:20:54] <oiaohm> uio: so you did not have a machine that worked perfectly to start off with. Debian stable is that you have a machine that works and they they don't go and break it.
1296[13:21:16] <oiaohm> sound working is not a requirement of stable unless it already worked.
1297[13:21:32] <oiaohm> Same with shutdown issues and other things.
1298[13:21:32] <BCMM> uio: basically "stable" means debian won't change stuff unless they really have to
1299[13:21:32] <uio> These things weren't issues in 9.
1300[13:21:40] <BCMM> uio: within a release.
1301[13:21:52] <uio> BCMM, So 'frozen' would be more fitting.
1302[13:22:10] <BCMM> uio: well, frozen wouldn't get security updates...
1303[13:22:12] <oiaohm> uio: frozen has another meaning.
1304[13:22:18] <uio> oiaohm, What is a broken machine?
1305[13:22:19] <oiaohm> uio: as in no updates at all.
1306[13:22:22] <BCMM> basically, breakage is inevitable; debian stable just lets that breakage happen at a defined time
1307[13:22:40] <uio> My sound was broken.
1308[13:22:47] <BCMM> uio: on a rolling-release distro, you might have your workflow interrupted by *changes* that aren't actually bugs
1309[13:22:58] <Haohmaru> then you'll get someone complaining "i dropped two debian10s into my vodka, and it's still too warm"
1310[13:23:18] <BCMM> e.g. some server you used changed its options and now you need to manually re-do the config file even though you didn't want to do that today
1311[13:23:21] <oiaohm> uio: basically frozen is what you get when you use a debian snapshot set to an exact day.
1313[13:23:48] <uio> Anyway, if you think 'Stable' is stable enough, wonderful. I'm happy. 10 has just caused me grief and I'm trying to get that solved.
1314[13:23:54] <BCMM> or the menus in your word processor got redesigned in the middle of you trying to finish some urgent work, etc.
1315[13:24:20] <BCMM> the idea is that, once you get it set up, it'll just keep working
1316[13:24:26] <uio> BCMM, Or a Thunar dying half-walf through a backup.
1317[13:24:37] <uio> which happened on 'Stable'.
1318[13:24:47] <ayekat> yeah, "breakage" is not necessarily due to a bug, but can be introduced through changes - the idea of "stable" is to avoid that sort of breakage
1319[13:25:14] <BCMM> uio: it's not guaranteed bug free! if you need that, just... stop using computers, i guess? because that just isn't how it works
1320[13:25:38] <BCMM> it literally just means that they'll try really hard not to introduce new bugs by surprise
1321[13:25:58] <ZaZaGX> but if i stop using computers. my real life problems are bugs
1322[13:26:15] <Haohmaru> squash them
1323[13:26:22] <Haohmaru> poison them
1324[13:26:52] <Haohmaru> rip their legs/wings off
1325[13:26:57] <uio> BCMM, So you would have no issue with having no sound after an upgrade in 'Stable'? That seems normal to you?
1326[13:27:03] <BCMM> upgrading software *always* comes with the possibility of new bugs. debian stable isn't a magic bullet that provides bug-free computing, it just lets you manage when the bugs happen a bit
1327[13:27:24] *** Quits: ihristov (55c48532@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1328[13:27:27] <BCMM> uio: is there an operating system where that *doesn't* happen?
1334[13:28:05] <oiaohm> ZaZaGX: Ubuntu has more of these strangeness on adverage.
1335[13:28:11] <uio> Any thoughts on this whole shutdown issue?
1336[13:28:14] <BCMM> even if you're using the totally supported Windows that came with a computer, upgrading to a newer version often means hunting down driver issues...
1337[13:28:45] <Haohmaru> how bout when M$ decides to erase files on your HDD
1341[13:29:06] <Bliepo> Guys, this is getting way off topic. Stable != robust, though the confusion is understandable. Bugs aren´t nice, but a reality of life. Done. Less discussion, more trying to fix things.
1342[13:29:22] <uio> Bliepo, I'm good with that. Let's go!
1343[13:29:24] <tdn> I suddenly get a lot of these messages in syslog: systemd-journald[362]: Forwarding to syslog missed 4 messages.
1344[13:29:26] <BCMM> uio: seriously, on the issue of whether this is "acceptable" behaviour: maybe not, but that's just how computers are. *they are complicated and fragile*.
1345[13:29:28] <tdn> What causes this?
1346[13:29:46] <uio> BCMM, You're totally right. I'm wrong. So this shutdown issue.
1349[13:30:10] <oiaohm> uio: shutdown issues have many causes. Does it shutdown in the end if you leave it be.
1350[13:30:19] <BCMM> uio: you get to decide whether you want all your breakage to happen at once, instead of a slow trickle of breakage. that's really all Stable can offer.
1351[13:30:20] <oiaohm> uio: if so it likely the systemd timeout thing.
1352[13:30:45] <uio> BCMM, Absolutely.
1353[13:30:52] <uio> BCMM, You're right.
1354[13:31:18] <uio> The shutdown process had all these 'a stop job is running for Session 11' or for '16' or for 'user manager for UID 1001' with a little time counter behind. Then it said 'Failed unmounting /media/work/usb_backup' and 'Failed to send WATCHDOGs1 notification message: Connection refused.' Then it said that 'Reached targe: unmoun All Filesystems' and 'Reached target Poweroff'. It just hung at this last one and I had to do a hard shutdown, usb
1355[13:31:18] <uio> drive in and all.
1356[13:31:29] <uio> *oops line break
1357[13:32:18] <uio> I don't know if this helps: replaced-url
1358[13:32:38] <uio> I used to get clean shutdowns.
1360[13:32:48] <Mikjaer> I am building a disk-image for deploying on several machines, and i want to run a growpart and resizefs automaticly doing each bootup, so that it will grow the main partition to fill the entire disk, without any userinteraction. Where should i place / run suck script (from)?
1371[13:34:19] <uio> I mean it hung, I forced shutdown, then rebooted and pluged it back in.
1372[13:34:34] <BCMM> uio: this might be a hardware failure that was just awkwardly-timed with your upgrade, then...
1373[13:34:34] <ayekat> uio: theoretically you can downgrade, but it's going to be a major pain, because you'd have to manually reverse all the (irreversible) upgrade script actions
1374[13:34:40] <ayekat> (so short answer: "no")
1375[13:34:52] <uio> ayekat, Alas.
1376[13:34:53] <BCMM> uio: because the log is showing the usb disk disconnecting and reconnecting
1378[13:36:12] <uio> BCMM, Also, got this error with deja-dup: replaced-url
1379[13:36:25] <oiaohm> uio: sysvinit would not get upset if you had unstable USB media appearing in disappearing. Systemd does. So that USB device could have been unstable for quite some time.
1389[13:39:28] <alkisg> uio: alt+ctrl+del 7 times make systemd restart immediately; then you can more safely poweroff; or you can configure it to wait at most 10 seconds; but in all cases, reporting/solving the issues would be the best choice
1397[13:40:48] <BCMM> uio: if you look at line 1290 in your paste, the drive disconnects and reconnects two seconds later. this pattern repeats a few times.
1398[13:40:53] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1399[13:41:00] <oiaohm> uio: systemd like waiting long than sysvinit does for services to cleanly shut themselves down.
1400[13:41:04] <uio> BCMM, Is that abnormal?
1401[13:41:21] <BCMM> uio: unless you physically unplugged it and plugged it in again really quickly, yes
1402[13:41:33] *** angerctl is now known as Namarrgon
1403[13:41:36] <BCMM> uio: and these are USB disconnect - below the level of the actual filesystem or data on the drive
1404[13:41:41] <uio> oiaohm, So, the stop jobs today were because of the bad usb drive. I'll replace it. I also got stop jobs yesterday though.
1405[13:41:42] <oiaohm> uio: so basically jobs not stopping quickly with systemd is more sign those jobs are not functional right.
1406[13:42:16] <BCMM> uio: could conceivably be a problem with your usb controller or power supply, but realistically, usb sticks go wrong all the time, so it's probably that
1407[13:42:18] <oiaohm> uio: some of the stop jobs might have been because of the bad usb or they just might be basically problems.
1419[13:44:05] <oiaohm> uio: I not a devuan user. I have learnt to live with systemd and found out most of the time it was showing me where database issues and other problems were comming from.
1422[13:44:40] <oiaohm> uio: yes its annoying to have a stalled shutdown but that is really point at a issue in all cases I have seen it.
1423[13:44:47] <BCMM> uio: in theory the answer would be "a better usb drive", but i don't really know where to find one of those. USB stuff is such a "commodity" now that everybody seems to just be churning out barely-working trash...
1424[13:44:49] <uio> Okay. So I'll replace to usb drive. How can I make my use of 10 more smooth, because I don't have time to spend 3hr per day solving problems.
1425[13:45:03] <uio> BCMM, Gonna get Kingstons.
1426[13:45:14] <BCMM> uio: however, you can get a USB enclosure that just has a standard hard drive inside
1427[13:45:15] <oiaohm> uio: now when you say USB drive. You mean a flash stick I guess.
1428[13:45:19] <uio> oiaohm, Issues that I didn't have in 9....
1429[13:45:24] <uio> oiaohm, Sorry, yes.
1430[13:45:35] <BCMM> that way, when the enclosure electronics dies, you can just rip out the hdd inside and get a new enclosure or install it internally
1431[13:45:44] <oiaohm> Normally i don't like premade usb drives for backup devices.
1432[13:46:09] <uio> When is first point release?
1433[13:46:10] <oiaohm> Also don't use a 2.5 inch harddrive either. Those are not being made well.
1434[13:46:11] <BCMM> uio: i would consider almost any SATA HDD to be likely to live longer than a USB drive
1435[13:46:42] <oiaohm> I can pull up video on youtube where they show a seagate 2.5 that has used the head to remove the surface of disc.
1436[13:46:44] <uio> BCMM, My strategy is two flash drives for backup.
1437[13:46:58] * jelly blinks at "don't use a 2.5 inch harddrive" generalization
1438[13:47:00] <oiaohm> No disc surface no data recovery.
1439[13:47:30] <oiaohm> jelly: In the current gernation of drives wd and segagate 2.5 have that defect.
1440[13:47:52] <uio> Is there a tool that tests flash drive health?
1441[13:47:58] <jelly> I'd go with "don't rely on any single device if you value your data"
1442[13:48:29] <uio> jelly, Ie backups? Or backups on different media?
1443[13:48:51] <uio> Have you all had issues with 10?
1444[13:48:53] <jelly> uio: ie. redundancy of some kind.
1445[13:48:58] <BCMM> uio: not really. what happens behind the controller is all very opaque
1446[13:49:09] <BCMM> uio: it's kind of like an SSD but without any expectation of it actually being good...
1447[13:49:17] <jelly> be it backups, or raid or a distributed fs
1449[13:49:40] <BCMM> uio: (although in this particular case, i don't think the actual flash storage is your problem - it seems to be the USB interface)
1458[13:51:36] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1459[13:51:45] <BCMM> uio: ok, so it's not *completely* impossible that a change to linux is causing this problem. but i don't think it's likely. linux's USB stack has worked just fine for a *long* time now.
1460[13:51:47] <oiaohm> uio: if it harddrives I am normally using something 3.5 based with NAS drivers. Same thing aquired drive and enclosure as two different parts.
1461[13:52:21] <BCMM> uio: and this is *all* happening in the actual USB stack - even the USB storage driver is higher-level than this problem
1462[13:52:33] <uio> BCMM, I'm on old hardware: ThinkPad X61.
1475[13:55:41] <oiaohm> uio: I guess you are mobile so backing down to a home nas server by network is not an option.
1476[13:55:52] <uio> oiaohm, nope
1477[13:56:16] <oiaohm> That is to attempt to save on port wear yes network ports are stronger than usb ports by design.
1478[13:56:37] <jelly> uio: does X61 have usb3 at all?
1479[13:56:38] <BCMM> uio: if you decide to go back to 9, please at least check dmesg output for signs of USB issues... just in case you've found a way to mask the failure of your backup drive
1480[13:56:49] <uio> jelly, I don't think so...
1481[13:57:16] <jelly> uio: if it has expresscard, you can buy an usb3 controller to get decent speeds out of usb
1502[14:01:04] <BCMM> uio: is this new dmesg output
1503[14:01:48] <oiaohm> BCMM: on systems that had been upgraded from prior versions I have seen debian 9 still be sysvinit where clean installs were systemd.
1518[14:04:41] <Haohmaru> i've had "brand new" usb3 flash sticks get super hot and die in random ways after you merely write one ISO onto them
1519[14:04:53] <jelly> hw issue on a 14 year old laptop?!?
1520[14:04:58] <uio> BCMM, Hardware usb, or hardware usb port?
1521[14:05:04] <BCMM> uio: could be either
1522[14:05:28] <uio> hm issues that I didn't get in 9...
1523[14:05:38] *** Quits: LorD_n1c0w (~igora@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1524[14:05:38] *** Quits: LorD_n1c0w1 (~igor.a@187.45.177.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
1525[14:05:40] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1526[14:05:42] <BCMM> i'd usually say usb stick for sure, because they're *horrible*, but if it's really a 14 year old laptop, all bets are off really
1527[14:05:52] <jelly> Haohmaru: sadly I've also seen a 64GB usb3 stick behave in similar ways, heats up and disconnects (from tv, in this case) for hours
1528[14:05:54] * uio wonders if most people really have time to deal with this kind of stuff.
1529[14:06:18] <uio> BCMM, How can I confirm?
1530[14:06:27] <oiaohm> uio: the answer is mostly no. But most people don't keep machines as old as you either.
1531[14:06:33] <BCMM> uio: try the stick on another computer, or a different stick in the same port.
1532[14:06:35] <jelly> do people designing these know what "heat" and "dissipation" mean in the same sentence
1533[14:06:45] * uio finds it amusing that the problem is never Debian.
1534[14:06:51] <BCMM> uio: if you do the latter, maybe mount it read-only so you don't corrupt another filesystem.
1535[14:06:54] <Haohmaru> uio i've not had much problems with debian itself, once you configure it
1536[14:06:57] <uio> BCMM, I got it to work after.
1537[14:07:10] <uio> Haohmaru, How many hours?
1538[14:07:12] <Haohmaru> i've had problems with crap hardware tho
1539[14:07:15] <jelly> uio: did you happen to be able to boot 4.9 kernel from stretch, I did not track your issue
1540[14:07:31] <uio> jelly, No, turns out the problem is timidity.
1541[14:07:42] <uio> Or its daemon more specifically.
1542[14:07:46] <Haohmaru> like, super old hardware that doesn't wanna "suspend" properly, or crapvidia cards, etc..
1544[14:08:03] <jelly> get rid of timidity unless you really need a sw midi
1545[14:08:05] <oiaohm> uio: I have had the odd kernel problem on really old hardware that no one is testing any more. Also with USB connection isuses they can be nicely intermit ie you just happened to push the usb in x direction now everything is stabily connected.
1546[14:08:28] <oiaohm> uio: so if kernel change fixed anything that is only a maybe.
1549[14:09:05] <BCMM> uio: please don't see this as just "defending debian" or whatever. i'm sure you have some problems with debian too, but *i am trying to warn you* that the medium you're using for backups is not stable!
1550[14:09:28] <oiaohm> uio: old hardware make trouble shooting a lot hardware when the person who is doing it is not skilled enough to open up the device and check that none of the connections are bust.
1557[14:11:09] <BCMM> i continue to think that it's even more likely that the usb stick is worn out as that the usb port is
1558[14:11:52] <Haohmaru> i generally didn't experience anything strange when upgrading from 9 to 10, except the weird "Resuming from hybernation" message that i get on every debian10 so far
1559[14:11:56] <BCMM> those little usb sticks are basically designed for casually sharing a few documents with a colleague or whatever. it's *normal* for them to die quickly if they're used for regular, large writes (like backups)
1560[14:11:59] <oiaohm> BCMM: the USB ports in that laptop are on a subboard as well so the connection between motherboard and subboard with the usb ports on could have got damaged over time.
1565[14:13:28] <oiaohm> uio: I have had a 2 year old laptop with no working stable usb ports on either side because the 2 subboards with the usb ports on had got hit and the connection to main board got cracked.
1566[14:13:37] <uio> jelly, Got rid of the dameon. The bug has been around since 2018, but he maintainer hasn't gotten the chance to address it yet. We'll see.
1573[14:14:36] <uio> oiaohm, It was almost mint when I got it in January!
1574[14:14:42] <uio> Zero wear.
1575[14:15:08] <Haohmaru> oh, actually there is one thing, in xfce4-panel, the memory/cpu meters changed their shapes from rectangles to fuggly ellipses
1576[14:15:11] <oiaohm> uio: impacted stick on usb port causing internal cracks leaves no external case marks.
1598[14:20:00] <oiaohm> uio: again it because I am aware USB ports do crack their solder and I want to have a simple path to get my data back.
1599[14:20:24] <uio> oiaohm, I'll have three copies of the data, so not too worried.
1600[14:21:28] <oiaohm> uio: I do data recovery. I have seen a person successuflly bugger up a 6 copies of data on usbkey by getting hit at the wrong time while trying to access so braking the connection.
1601[14:21:35] <oiaohm> So had to solder the ports back on.
1602[14:21:59] <oiaohm> so I am kind a lot lower trusting.
1603[14:22:36] <oiaohm> uio: that was 6 usb keys all buggered.
1604[14:22:48] <oiaohm> Due to combinations of bad luck.
1658[14:57:57] <tdn> I just got this I/O error in dmesg on one of my mdadm raid-1 arrays. Is this something serious? Or a harmless error? [304300.084270] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-2, logical block 0, async page read
1659[14:58:10] <Freetux_> hello
1660[14:58:28] <ayekat> Guest35220: note that if you can't run sudo yet, you'll have to use `su` to get a root shell (if it's about adding yourself to the `sudo` group)
1661[14:58:59] <Guest35220> guys, when i type: sudo adduser ww - im asked for password; i type my password and im told "(me) is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported."
1662[14:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
1663[14:59:38] <ayekat> Guest35220: yes, you can't use sudo to add yourself to the sudo group - there's a chicken and egg problem - open a root shell and run adduser as root
1665[15:00:13] <dvs> Guest35220, yes, you have to login as root to add yourself to the sudo group.
1666[15:00:19] <Guest35220> there are no other users, i just installed, set root password and created my own user with pass, thats all. clearly my own user is not in sudoers group
1667[15:00:36] <ayekat> Guest35220: yes, so log in as root (or use `su` to open a root shell)
1668[15:00:38] <jelly> Guest35220: use "su -" to open a root shell.
1672[15:01:21] <Guest35220> yes now were talkin :) thanks :)
1673[15:01:30] <Guest35220> now i'm as root
1674[15:01:52] <ayekat> hmm... if adduser is in an sbin directory, then probably `su -` is better indeed
1675[15:01:54] <jelly> if you want to add yourself to sudo group anyway, "adduser yourusername sudo" but activation of that requires you to log off and log on again
1698[15:07:50] <ayekat> Guest35220: to be fair, I gave the misleading instruction to run `su` instead of `su -`, so you can blame me for that
1699[15:08:53] <Guest35220> now the part i couldnt find in manpages either: i just want to add a 'common' user with no priviledges at all, simply for opening web browser for anyone in the house (this pc will be connected to tv) - i don't want any passwords for this new user, so do i just press enter when asked for new password?
1700[15:10:28] <BCMM> Guest35220: if you do that, i think you'll get a "blank password", not no password (i.e. the display manager will still prompt you to enter a password, and you'll need to press enter)
1701[15:10:37] <Guest35220> ayekat i'm honestly greatful for the help, no worries
1703[15:11:05] <Guest35220> BCMM so how do i set it up? make password now and then remove it later?
1704[15:11:09] <BCMM> that is, assuming whatever software you're using to set the password actually lets you do that - there might be a password length requirement
1705[15:11:15] <Bushmills> Guest35220: as default user, logged into automatically maybe?
1707[15:12:19] <Guest35220> yes Bushmills, thats exactly what i want - just so anyone can click on the name without any password and log in
1708[15:12:29] <Bushmills> check out nodm
1709[15:12:35] <Bushmills> !nodm
1710[15:12:35] <dpkg> In systemd, "systemctl set-default multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm xdm". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (replaced-url
1716[15:14:17] <Guest35220> im at adding this "ww" user (for web browsing as i said); when i tried just pressing enter at "New password:" im told "No password supplied"
1720[15:15:23] <Guest35220> Bushmills not exactly what im trying to setup with logins; i do want the users selection page first, so i could chose my own user to read mail or watch pron too ;)
1731[15:17:31] <Guest35220> hold on, im asked for "Room Number" now - what is this?
1732[15:18:06] <greycat> sorry, uio, I'm at work right now, and there are no chickens nearby that I can ritually sacrifice to perform the divination rituals to foresee the days to come
1747[15:20:05] <uio> Guest35220, That's a good one.
1748[15:20:27] *** Quits: Freetux_ (~Freetux@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1749[15:20:54] <Guest35220> thx uio ;) guys what is this "Room Number []:" im asked now
1750[15:21:05] <greycat> sounds like part of the GECOS field
1751[15:21:16] <greycat> are you adding a user?
1752[15:21:24] *** Quits: tolecnal (tolecnal@replaced-ip) (Quit: server maintenance)
1753[15:21:32] <dvs> Guest35220, that is just info that shows up when asskiing about the user. It's not important.
1754[15:21:51] <jelly> Guest35220: you can just leave it empty
1755[15:21:57] <SPiRiT_> Guest35220, you need to type your username in the command: usermod -aG sudo <username> --- because it looks like you are creating a new one :)
1756[15:22:00] <BCMM> Guest35220: you can leave that blank. that's just information that other users can look up; it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you've got a traditional unix system with dozens of users all over the department
1757[15:22:03] <Guest35220> shoot when i copy it with ctrl-c it interpreted it as instruction lol now i got "Room Number []: ^Cadduser: `/bin/chfn ww' exited from signal 2. Exiting."
1758[15:22:23] <BCMM> Guest35220: ctrl-c means something else in the terminal
1759[15:22:23] <greycat> Go back and do it again, and this time just hit Enter instead of Ctrl-C.
1760[15:22:51] <Guest35220> ok
1761[15:22:52] <BCMM> Guest35220: it ends the current program, basically (it meant that before ctrl-c for copy was a thing)
1762[15:22:58] <greycat> Ah, you thought Ctrl-C was copy. Heh. ;-)
1763[15:23:09] <Guest35220> years of windoze, man...
1764[15:23:14] <greycat> Ctrl-C in the Unix shell means "Interrupt", or "kill this process".
1765[15:23:15] <Bushmills> "cancel"
1766[15:23:19] <dvs> thank goodness he didn't do undo!
1767[15:23:32] <uio> Going for reboot to see if stop jobs are going to pop up again.
1776[15:24:02] <greycat> Copy/paste in the X window system is done entirely with the mouse. However, to make life easier for Windows refugees, Shift+Insert works as paste in *some* applications. Not all.
1780[15:24:30] <BCMM> greycat: ctrl-c/ctrl-v works in almost everything. x has a clipboard as well a primary selection. what are you talking about?
1781[15:24:30] <jelly> kreyren: is your system a debian stable installation?
1782[15:25:08] <greycat> Ctrl-v in Unix terminals is "literal next", which means that whatever you press AFTER the Ctrl-v is not interpreted by the terminal driver, but simply passed on as a literal keystroke. So, "Ctrl-V Ctrl-C" would insert the ASCII 0x03 byte as input, instead of doing what Ctrl-C normally does (kill the process).
1783[15:25:14] <BCMM> and it's not a windows keystroke originally, it's a PARC thing (like almost anything shared between mac and windows)
1788[15:26:29] <kreyren> ~~i hate you *going on #debian-next~~
1789[15:26:35] <greycat> BCMM: well, virtually every program I use in Debian is terminal-based, not X11-based, so for me, virtually every program uses TERMINAL semantics, where Ctrl-C is interrupt, not copy.
1790[15:26:43] *** Quits: sebatron (b92ed451@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1791[15:26:44] <Bushmills> terminals and Ctrl-C predate graphic user environment. THose have stolen and redefined Ctrl-C
1792[15:26:53] <BCMM> greycat: that is *one single* x11 application.
1793[15:26:55] <Guest35220> why is "switch user" greyed out? i wanted to test this user without logging out myself to not lose this chat,
1794[15:27:09] * jelly whistles
1795[15:27:11] <de-facto> does debian use xattrs on its rootfs in default installs? i want to backup the rootfs with tar...
1796[15:27:22] <greycat> BCMM: uhhhh, no, it's outside of the X11 paradigm entirely, and includes non-X11 interactions like the Console.
1802[15:28:26] <greycat> BCMM: I am being literally and absolutely CORRECT. You are mistaken.
1803[15:28:52] <Guest35220> ctrl-c / ctrl-v should have been universally used imho... but what do i know :)
1804[15:28:54] <ayekat> BCMM: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V are implemented on the application level, and X11 doesn't know anything about those shortcuts
1805[15:29:01] <greycat> BCMM: Ctrl-C in a terminal in a BSD-ish universe (including Linux) is mapped to the intr (interrupt) feature.
1806[15:29:19] <BCMM> greycat: same on linux. it's int, not kill
1807[15:29:25] <Guest35220> i will sure miss those handy key-shortcuts :(
1808[15:29:29] <Bushmills> Guest35220: then one has to ask why graphical environments chose to use them differently
1809[15:29:34] <greycat> BCMM: In a System V-ish universe, the intr key is usually mapped to DEL (^?), but that's not a thing most Linux users would need t know.
1810[15:29:38] <ayekat> Guest35220: most GUI applications implement Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, don't worry
1811[15:29:49] <BCMM> Guest35220: the thing is, the meanings they have in the terminal pre-date their use for copy and paste
1815[15:30:40] <Guest35220> whats the use of windows-logo key then? just curious
1816[15:30:41] <greycat> TL;DR: use Shift+Insert instead.
1817[15:31:20] <Guest35220> useless?
1818[15:31:26] <BCMM> Guest35220: for practical purposes, the terminal stands as the sole exception to those normal keyboard shortcuts (because the terminal was using them first). depending on your terminal, it probably implements some alternative clipboard shortcuts (or you might be able to right-click)
1830[15:33:13] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1831[15:33:13] <BCMM> Guest35220: Super can be used in keyboard shortcuts, just like alt and ctrl. it's relatively common to use it for window-manager shortcuts, or to open a launcher just like on windows
1832[15:33:48] <Guest35220> BCMM i think i lost you?
1833[15:33:56] <jelly> de-facto: they are enabled and available and there are some components that might use them, but none that are mandatory
1834[15:34:03] <Guest35220> oh you mean the windows-log key
1835[15:34:07] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
1836[15:34:36] <no_gravity> /quit
1837[15:34:44] <de-facto> jelly, how do i backup a buster rootfs (inside lxc) with tar? do i need --xattrs?
1839[15:34:51] <ayekat> Guest35220: the super key (or "windows key") is typically not used by any unix/linux applications, so the window manager can use it to bind various actions (like window switching etc.)
1840[15:35:05] <ayekat> (without clashing with any of the applications, that is)
1841[15:35:07] <BCMM> Guest35220: yeah. the windows key usually makes the "super" keystroke, which is the name of a key that used to exist on some old keyboards that were rather influential on unix
1842[15:35:09] *** Quits: beaver^ (~beaver@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1843[15:35:36] <BCMM> was gonna say about what ayekat said :) unless you're an emacs user, it has the advantage of being a key that's almost certainly not used by applications, so it's nice to use for your own custom shortcuts
1844[15:35:36] <Guest35220> I did something wrong with this password-less user i think; terminal prints only ">" lines now, and when i want to close it im told there is still process running
1846[15:35:49] <greycat> Personally, I map Super (the windows logo key) to Compose.
1847[15:36:09] <BCMM> Guest35220: if the terminal is just showing >, that usually means you opened a quote and haven't closed it
1848[15:36:17] <BCMM> i.e. it's waiting for ' or "
1849[15:36:32] <greycat> or any other continuation of the previous shell command
1850[15:36:38] <greycat> but yes, quotes are very common
1851[15:36:41] <Guest35220> I remember on slackware or something else ctrl+c/v did work in terminal there, but maybe i had option there to set it up, i dont remember now
1852[15:37:17] <BCMM> Guest35220: not ctrl-shift-c?
1864[15:39:06] <greycat> Ctrl-D in a terminal context is typically "end of file", but only in very specific circumstances, typically when running a command that reads lines of input in canonical mode.
1865[15:39:24] <Guest35220> how do i get back to setting up that "ww" user now? he is created i guess?
1874[15:40:19] <Guest35220> Room Number []: ^Cadduser: `/bin/chfn ww' exited from signal 2. Exiting.
1875[15:40:23] <Guest35220> oops sry
1876[15:40:32] <greycat> Yes, that was you aborting the previous command.
1877[15:40:41] <Guest35220> that was old ctrl+v havit.. here: adduser: The user `ww' already exists.
1878[15:40:58] <greycat> Signal 2 is SIGINT ("interrupt") which is generated by the intr key in a terminal program, which is typically bound to Ctrl-C.
1879[15:41:34] <greycat> So... you aborted it after it had already performed some of the steps, and now you get to guess which steps were not completed? Lovely.
1880[15:41:39] <greycat> Good job Debian.
1881[15:41:48] <Guest35220> yes i am going to refrain from using keyboard shortcut for now, right-click copy/paste only - until i remember ;)
1882[15:42:06] <Guest35220> i think so greycat
1883[15:42:12] <ayekat> keyboard shortcuts are fine - just don't paste random things into your shell
1884[15:42:25] <greycat> If it's *only* the chfn ("change full name") steps that are missing, you can live without that.
1918[15:46:40] <greycat> Guest35220: I duplicated your steps, and as far as I can tell, chfn is the *last* thing adduser does, so all that you're missing on your "ww" user is the GECOS stuff (full name, room number, phone number, etc.). Which is all just cosmetic.
1943[15:50:47] <Guest35220> so with this user added why is it still greyed out to switch users?
1944[15:51:10] <uio> There seem to be longer stop jobs after a longer session. Like, to shut down after I logged out of irc it took a while, lists of things to do (less in 9). But if I start up and then shut down quickly, the shut down is smooth and fast.
1945[15:51:28] <greycat> sounds like some kind of desktop thing.
1946[15:51:34] <greycat> what are you trying to do?
1947[15:51:37] <BCMM> greycat: useradd is the binary that actually does stuff. adduser is the (originally debian-specific, i think) wrapper
1954[15:52:41] <uio> As long as it doesn't take 5 minutes or hang I might be able to live with it.
1955[15:52:55] <greycat> BCMM: I'm aware. I just didn't know it was a (perl) script that I can read to see exactly what happens when you Ctrl-C in the middle of it.
1959[15:53:12] <Reventlov> Hello. What is the metadata version debian uses with mdadm?
1960[15:53:45] <greycat> I've been reading it for a few minutes here, and I think my previous statement was correct -- in this mode (no arguments besides the user name), Ctrl-C'ing during the GECOS entry loop doesn't affect anything but GECOS (chfn).
1962[15:53:55] *** Quits: w00dsman_ (~w00dsman@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1963[15:53:56] <Guest35220> uio i have even less than you in another box :/
1964[15:54:05] <greycat> It has already created the user, the group, and the home directory.
1965[15:54:11] <Reventlov> I'm trying to setup a lvm over luks over mdadm (raid 1) install, and it seems grub has some problem installing itself. I read that I should probably use --metadata=1.0 for mdadm, and I was wondering if it was already the case for the "assisted" raid configuration of debian
1966[15:54:47] <jelly> Reventlov: do you have two partitions with two separate mdadm raid1s over eachj pair?
1967[15:54:55] <greycat> If quotas are configured, it will have aborted before doing the quotas, but that's it.
1968[15:54:59] <Guest35220> greycat but i can't switch users, it is greyed out
1969[15:55:07] <greycat> I don't know what you are trying to "switch users" inside of.
1970[15:55:13] <greycat> I don't know Desktop stuff in general.
1971[15:55:32] <uio> Guest35220, What is your DE?
1972[15:55:34] <Reventlov> jelly: well, right now I have nothing anymore since I rebooted to check something. But basically I just want lvm over luks over mdadm (raid 1), and before, I used the debian assistant to configure them
1973[15:55:41] <Reventlov> I only got 2 disks
1974[15:55:54] <jelly> Reventlov: also does the machine boot in legacy or uefi mode
1975[15:55:59] <Reventlov> uefi
1976[15:56:16] <jelly> oh, I guess you'll need three partitions on each disk then
1977[15:56:24] <Guest35220> xfce desktop, top right corner when clicking on currently logged-in user (me) you get usual drop down menu with logout/shutdown/etc
1984[15:57:11] <Reventlov> the small one raid1 for /boot using metadata=1.0, right?
1985[15:57:25] <Reventlov> and I'd mirror the EFI (is that the ESP one?) manually
1986[15:57:34] <jelly> Reventlov: right
1987[15:57:45] <jelly> on both accounts
1988[15:57:57] <Reventlov> can't I just have a single big raid partition with metadata=1.0 or is that not advisable?
1989[15:58:03] <uio> Guest35220, Yep greyed out for me too.
1990[15:58:37] <Guest35220> uio that means something went wrong i guess?
1991[15:58:49] <uio> Guest35220, Probably a bug.
1992[15:58:55] <jelly> Reventlov: you probably can, but then you'll have to use grub's luks and lvm support and will have to enter the passphrase for luks two times, once for grub, once for linux
1993[15:59:00] <uio> It was in 9 too though.
1994[15:59:01] <Reventlov> ok
1995[15:59:32] <jelly> the conservative approach is to keep /boot separate and not encrypted
2000[16:00:19] <Guest35220> uio one of the distros i tried few days ago (maybe linux mate?) had a very easy users administration program, with gui, but i dont remember what it was now... maybe you know?
2001[16:00:34] <greycat> Mate is a desktop environment, basically a fork of GNOME 2.x.
2002[16:00:41] <greycat> !mate
2003[16:00:41] <dpkg> The MATE Desktop Environment is a fork of GNOME 2, available since Debian 8 "Jessie" (and also in wheezy-backports). To install, ask me about <install mate>. replaced-url
2004[16:00:41] <jelly> in theory grub could be able to pass the luks key to kernel in-memory, so that user only needs to enter the pass once, but I don't know if anyone implemented that yet
2005[16:00:51] <uio> Guest35220, Mate seems to be a bit easy to use out-of-box.
2009[16:01:12] <Guest35220> greycat i meant linux mate as distro, i know its ubuntu with mate, which is debian with customizations and so on ;)
2010[16:01:40] <Guest35220> uio not yet, its actually first boot of mu Debian installation
2011[16:01:40] <uio> Guest35220, Mint?
2012[16:01:42] <greycat> That's why I responded the way I did. Mate is not the name of a distro. It's the name of a desktop environment.
2013[16:01:55] <Guest35220> uio oooh yes MINT not Mate, i'm so sorry
2014[16:02:41] <uio> Guest35220, Yeah. Go for it. Easy out of box than anything here. But probably has other issues (like being closer to Ubuntu and thus Canonical).
2016[16:03:08] <Guest35220> as i said, i did tried quite few distros in past week, finally it dawned on me: why try derivatives if you can go for original... started reading installation manuals and stuff on debian.org and decided . so im here now :)
2017[16:03:51] <uio> Guest35220, Cool! That was kinda my approach with Lubuntu. I do prefer Debian, but personally find a major learning curve.
2029[16:07:26] <uio> Guest35220, Lighter than MATE on ressources I think. Or close.
2030[16:07:42] <uio> heavier than LXDE (but Debian + LXDE is a disaster).
2031[16:08:09] <Guest35220> uio yeah i never liked rainbow jumping icons, beautiful wallpapers changed every 10sec and shit like that... my comp is to be used not to be looked at and praise it's desktop look imho
2035[16:09:03] <Guest35220> but i do understand why so many distros put more effort on beauty looks
2036[16:09:45] <uio> Guest35220, Right, I mean I think Debian + XFCE could have taken 5 minutes to make the default not look like the late 90's, but hey.
2037[16:10:05] <greycat> Debian's focus is less on aesthetics and more on making sure stuff actually works. Which means lots of testing, which means stuff is *older* than in some other systems.
2040[16:10:21] <greycat> If something is a week old, that means it has been tested for less than a week.
2041[16:10:34] <Guest35220> uio its fine by me, when i won't have any windows taking the screen means im not using it hence i wont look at the desktop at all ;)
2042[16:10:42] <uio> greycat, Sure, but I mean, it would have literally taken 5 minutes to make XFCE look 10 years newer.
2043[16:11:10] <uio> theme + icon + wallpaper and it looks way better.
2044[16:11:24] <ayekat> but debian's goal is not to make all the DEs look shiny
2047[16:11:54] <Guest35220> and imho that's good - it's all rather easy to customize yourself
2048[16:12:20] <uio> Yeah, I mean if Debian doesn't think that it's worth 5 minutes to make a more modern-looking default than that's fine.
2049[16:12:47] <Guest35220> my hate to windows started first not because it's crappy, but because i couldn't change almost anything about gui
2050[16:13:03] <ayekat> uio: it's not a matter of how much time you spend - it's a matter of not deviating from default upstream behaviour (apart from what's necessary)
2051[16:13:57] <ayekat> some distributions care more about looks, and they're willing to modify software package to look "prettier" out of the box, but that's not quite debian's goal
2052[16:14:05] <uio> ayekat, And different themes and icons and a decent wallpaper, the first two of which are already in repos would threaten that?
2053[16:14:27] <ayekat> themes and wallpapers can be set by the user
2054[16:15:35] <uio> ayekat, True. All I'm saying is if Debian can make things look way better by using what's already in the repos and taking 5 minutes (okay 10) why not? This doesn't distract from the priorties. It could be done for the major ten or whatever DEs in like under two hours.
2055[16:16:02] <uio> Defaults can be changed, but why not have a good one?
2056[16:16:18] <Guest35220> from noob's perspective i tell you guys what imho debian is missing same as many other distros: a "Windows" theme to resemble i.e. damn ctrl+c/v shortcuts in terminal ;)
2059[16:17:00] <Guest35220> i do remember one of the terminals had this option in it's settings ;)
2060[16:17:02] <ayekat> uio: I don't know about xfce, but the defaults are usually what upstream chooses - so if you want to change the default theme, you may want to ask the upstream xfce developers
2061[16:17:02] <BCMM> Guest35220: windows has ctrl+c/v in the terminal now?
2062[16:17:05] <Guest35220> so it could be done
2063[16:17:26] <Guest35220> BCMM yes it always had in cmd prompt
2064[16:17:29] <ayekat> Guest35220: if you map ctrl-c to "copy" in your terminal emulator, how do you pass SIGINT to the application?
2065[16:17:39] <greycat> You could configure your terminal to use different bindings for intr and lnext, but it would be a STEEP deviation from Unix traditions.
2066[16:17:47] <Guest35220> BCMM at least since windows 2000 iirc
2067[16:17:54] <uio> ayekat, Do you think Debian is perfect?
2068[16:17:55] <BCMM> Guest35220: i thought you had to right-click and select "mark", then highlight, then right-click and choose copy
2078[16:18:48] <ayekat> uio: if "better defaults" means "deviating from upstream defaults", then the answer is clearly "no"
2079[16:18:59] <Guest35220> greycat i do understand that, i know almost everything can be configured to my liking or habits - what i meant is to add some as-Windows-alike theme for noobs coming from windozes, that's all
2080[16:18:59] <uio> ayekat, Why?
2081[16:19:22] <ayekat> uio: because I don't like if distributions deviate from upstream behaviour - it makes it more difficult to debug things and finding information in general
2083[16:19:30] <greycat> This wouldn't just be a *theme*. It's deeper stuff.
2084[16:19:46] <uio> ayekat, We're taking about changing a theme and icons!
2085[16:19:53] <uio> ayekat, nothing too complicated!
2086[16:20:02] <uio> ayekat, A wallpaper won't break upstream.
2087[16:20:08] <Guest35220> BCMM i'm pretty sure i ctrl+c/ctrl+v in cmd prompt :)
2088[16:20:09] <ayekat> uio: yeah, but where do you draw the line for "this is acceptable deviation from upstream"?
2089[16:20:27] <ayekat> uio: it's simpler to just not do it at all
2090[16:20:31] <BCMM> Guest35220: i've not used the w10 terminal much, so i guess it's possible
2091[16:20:39] <uio> ayekat, Is there anything wrong with saying that Debian could have done a better job? It chose ugly defaults. I can live with that. But it did.
2092[16:20:41] <jelly> ayekat: sometimes upstream are idiots.
2093[16:20:53] <BCMM> Guest35220: but circa win2k, ctrl-c was definitely for closing the current program in the terminal
2094[16:21:11] <ayekat> jelly: sure, in some cases proper system integration requires deviating from upstream defaults - but changing a theme doesn't fall into that category IMHO
2095[16:21:12] <uio> ayekat, Could icons cause upstream issues?
2096[16:21:17] <Guest35220> BCMM i think you're right, it probably wasn't in WIn2K but was added later, maybe at Win-Vista or 7
2100[16:21:47] <BCMM> huh, turns out it didn't even originate in unix; dos and unix both copied early DEC operating systems on that
2101[16:21:58] <Guest35220> BCMM because i actually remember pasting with mouse right-clicking too
2102[16:22:01] <BCMM> (well, dos copied cp/m which copied dec, ofc)
2103[16:22:05] <ayekat> uio: debian does a fine job with not deviating from upstream if unnecessary - and changing the default theme falls IMHO into that category
2110[16:23:26] <ayekat> uio: and ultimately, it was (probably - again, I don't know about xfce in particular) not debian who "chose" the default, but simply adopted what xfce does by default
2112[16:23:45] <Guest35220> BCMM then it is the default i guess.
2113[16:23:48] <ayekat> uio: (then again, what I see on the xfce.org website suggests that upstream has a different idea of what it should ideally look like)
2114[16:24:17] <greycat> Ctrl-C as intr goes back to the earliest BSD systems, I think. It's definitely one of the BSD points of departure from SysV, which as I said before, used DEL as intr.
2157[16:34:32] <uio> ayekat, Lemme guess, you on i3?
2158[16:34:33] <Guest35220> im just browsing thru all "user manager" packages in synaptics, and i tell you: all those names mean nothing to me, have to click on each to see what it is, and even then its often meaningless to noob like me: "supports multiple seats and switching between multiple users. The greeter is based on the GNOME libraries and applications, and its look and design are the same as those of a GNOME session.
2209[16:44:55] <uio> apostolis, No issues for ff here on xfce & Buster.
2210[16:44:58] <Andy999999999> though YT playback has some tiny quirks in playback, but i guess its because i havent installed any hardware acceleration drivers yet
2211[16:45:26] <apostolis> I can reproduce the problem in both firefox and chrome, so the problem is not the browsers.
2213[16:45:54] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2214[16:46:36] <emulated> Hello, I have iwlwifi firmware installed on my system, and I would like to remove 'non-free' section from sources.list. Is there any side effect in doing so?
2215[16:46:40] *** Quits: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2216[16:46:52] <greycat> you won't receive any future updates
2217[16:47:01] <uio> greycat, What are hostmasks?
2218[16:47:11] <Andy999999999> so do i type just "deluser ww" to remove it?
2219[16:47:29] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2230[16:49:22] <Andy999999999> so guys, any other ideas on setting up a password-less user?
2231[16:49:30] <greycat> Andy999999999: I strongly advise reading "man deluser" to see all the options and stuff.
2232[16:49:36] <BCMM> emulated: if you're concerned about accidentally installing other non-free packages, you could periodically check the list of non-free packages on the system
2246[16:51:28] <emulated> BCMM: I would like to avoid installing packages from non-free; however, I cannot use my wireless card without firmware-iwlwifi. Ideally, I would like have non-free section disabled, and firmware-iwlwifi "whitelisted" so that I can receive updates
2256[16:52:16] <BCMM> emulated: just having non-free enabled isn't going to cause extra non-free packages to be installed
2257[16:52:39] <greycat> Andy999999999: OK, I'm seeing some google results for lightdm passwordless login, and it looks like you might have to tweak the PAM configs. I don't use lightdm myself, though.
2258[16:52:43] <emulated> BCMM: Of course yes, but sometimes you just want to type in apt install and let the system automatically avoid non-free for you, since I don't know licenses of every package in advance
2259[16:52:54] <uio> Andy999999999, Could change autologin-user-timeout=0 to something higher?
2260[16:53:07] <uio> Andy999999999, That way you have time to change to something else.
2261[16:53:23] <greycat> arch wiki has this: replaced-url
2262[16:53:24] <apostolis> An instagram link is the one one receives from embedded instagram content on other pages.
2279[16:56:27] <dpkg> DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: replaced-url
2280[16:56:38] <Andy999999999> i have the one that came with installation disc of debian 10.0.0 x64
2281[16:56:50] <greycat> once you figure out which DM you're using, then you get to figure out how to configure it to allow interactive passwordless logins
2282[16:56:53] *** Quits: sebatron (b92ed451@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2285[16:57:01] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2286[16:57:08] <emulated> BCMM: I see. I thought removing 'non-free' from sources.list was enough to automatically avoid installing proprietary software
2289[16:57:32] <greycat> Andy999999999: the installed packages depend on which choices you make during the installation. It has nothing to do with what's "on" the installer disc.
2290[16:57:32] <BCMM> Andy999999999: which "task" did you choose on this screen? replaced-url
2316[17:01:34] <Reventlov> Another question: I just booted my setup, and before having to enter my luks passphrase (lvm over luks over mdadm), I have message about my virtual group not being found
2328[17:06:01] <Andy999999999> every time i want to close terminal window it says there is a process running, is that normal or i did something wrong again? Im at root prompt
2333[17:06:29] *** Quits: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2334[17:06:34] <alkisg> (type ctrl+d or exit to exit the `su` shell)
2335[17:06:35] <SerajewelKS> Andy999999999: you get that message if there is a program running under the shell. if you are at a root prompt, that's probably sudo or su.
2336[17:06:46] <greycat> *sigh*
2337[17:06:49] <SerajewelKS> Andy999999999: (running under the shell that the terminal emulator created)
2345[17:08:39] <greycat> SerajewelKS: ... oh, you think he was clicking the [X] button with a mouse rather than using shell commands to exit? Damn. I am *really* out of touch with the Windows refugee mindset.
2346[17:08:40] <PiOjitOh> I have problems installing readline, zlib sudo apt-get install readline zlib <<<< and does not install someone knows what happened to him =/
2347[17:09:12] <Andy999999999> greycat yeah i did click X, but before that i did ctrl+c to kill :P
2348[17:09:30] <greycat> Ctrl-c interrupts a running shell command, but it doesn't exit out of the shell.
2352[17:09:46] *** Joins: augusta (2d747171@replaced-ip)
2353[17:10:16] <greycat> If you launched a terminal, and then ran "su" inside that terminal, now you're inside two different shells. "su" is running inside (as a child of) your regular shell, which is running inside the terminal. You would need to "exit" two times.
2354[17:10:16] <SerajewelKS> greycat: right, and there's a child process of the shell the terminal created so it's barking at him about it
2355[17:10:45] <greycat> The first "exit" takes you out of "su" back to your regular shell.
2357[17:11:46] <Andy999999999> got it. i just typed exit - which killed root prompt, took me back to my limited user prompt, now it closed with "X" click without problems
2358[17:12:03] <dvs> Andy999999999, or you can type "exit" again
2359[17:12:21] <Andy999999999> it would close the window too?
2386[17:17:05] <Andy999999999> greycat yes i have it, it has "Enabling interactive passwordless login" but i don't understand it. OPAM ?
2387[17:17:06] <alkisg> Andy999999999: you can set blank passwords that work anywhere, if you don't care much about security; fortunately they don't work over ssh ;)
2388[17:17:09] <greycat> Autologin is *much* more popular than interactive passwordless login.
2389[17:17:17] <greycat> !pam
2390[17:17:17] <dpkg> pam is, like, the Pluggable Authentication Modules. Check replaced-url
2393[17:17:55] <greycat> two web.archive.org links? really?
2394[17:18:00] <Andy999999999> alkisg i care about security, i'm planning tio have this password-less user as limited as possible, but first i have to create it lol
2395[17:18:21] <greycat> You *did* create it, you said. You can test it by logging in on the console. Ctrl-Alt-F2.
2397[17:18:34] <greycat> Passwordless Console logins shold work out of the box.
2398[17:18:36] <alkisg> Andy999999999: I mean, a blank password works in the terminal too; while the passwordless login is only configured in the display manager
2410[17:20:23] <Andy999999999> greycat at login window (lightdm i guess) i typed username "ww" and nothing for password; it insisted my password is wrong
2412[17:20:39] <greycat> Test at the console instead. Ctrl-Alt-F2.
2413[17:20:53] <Reventlov> I got these messages at boot: replaced-url
2414[17:21:04] <alkisg> nopasswdlogin isn't managed by pam, so it won't work in vt2
2415[17:21:19] <Andy999999999> now i have to create it again, but first i wanted to make sure i know what to do
2416[17:21:22] <alkisg> That's why gdm removed support for it
2417[17:21:26] <greycat> I CANNOT KEEP UP WITH ALL OF THE WRONG ANSWERS
2418[17:21:26] <SerajewelKS> Reventlov: that just means that while probing disks early on, it can't find that volume group (because it's behind encryption)
2419[17:21:28] <greycat> GAAAH
2420[17:21:30] <Fox> Andy999999999: do you have a pam config file for lightdm ? like /etc/pam.d/lightdm
2425[17:22:17] <greycat> I am going to test what alkisg said and if it turns out to be wrong, which I'm 98% certain it will, then I will ponder whether to /ignore him again, or silence him.
2426[17:22:22] <Andy999999999> Fox yes i found it
2427[17:22:53] <Reventlov> SerajewelKS: yeah, but can I tell it that it's behind encryption to avoid these messages?
2428[17:23:41] <BCMM> augusta: would you be so kind as to give a short description of what the link is about, so people can work out if they can be bothered to click it?
2429[17:24:01] <SerajewelKS> Reventlov: not to my knowledge
2430[17:24:17] <greycat> OK, I have officially completed my test. I did "adduser fooblank", and it wouldn't let me enter an empty password, so I entered a password of foo, AND THEN, I ran "vipw -s" and cleared the password field. Then I logged in on tty2 with my new user account. Successfully.
2433[17:24:55] <greycat> In an act of kindness toward alkisg but CRUELTY to everyone else in the channel who has to endure his lies and misinformation, I will not silence him at this time. Consider this a WARNING.
2434[17:25:03] <augusta> BCMM, The website is about our Natioal Level Technical Symposium.
2435[17:25:13] <greycat> STOP SPEWING MISINFORMATION INTO THIS CHANNEL. IT WASTES EVERYONE'S TIME. IT MAKES ME ANGRY.
2436[17:25:20] <alkisg> greycat: I'm just now implementing passwordless logins in ltsp and thought I would help. I'll stop replying when you're talking.
2437[17:25:25] <dvs> and you wont like him when he's angry
2446[17:26:28] <greycat> Standard IRC. Person A asks a question, person B answers the question, and persons C through Q drown out B's answer with wrong answers.
2447[17:26:33] <greycat> You know.
2448[17:26:50] <alkisg> It's really actually what I've spent yesterday and today on. But ok. Problem solved.
2461[17:29:16] <greycat> I don't know how much of what the Arch wiki says is necessary or even functional under Debian. You will have to cross-reference it with the PAM documentation and with common sense.
2462[17:29:19] <jelly> Andy999999999: some of those steps on the Arch Linux wiki might be Arch Linux specific. Caveat emptor.
2463[17:29:36] <Andy999999999> thats great :(
2464[17:29:45] <greycat> You are asking for something highly uncommon. We don't have documentation for it because nobody ever wanted to do it before.
2465[17:29:55] <Andy999999999> I see
2466[17:29:56] <jelly> however, lightdm almost certainly uses PAM and has it enabled by default
2467[17:29:59] <_Cute_Kitty_> greycat are you some sort of genius or something?
2468[17:30:01] <Bliepo> Or go for the easy way out and just make the password the same as the username
2469[17:30:27] <jelly> _Cute_Kitty_: probably just an old beard with enough experience
2471[17:30:33] <BCMM> i've seen a few references to a "guest login" feature in lightdm, which might serve a similar purpose. does anybody know if that's actually part of lightdm, or some ubuntu patch?
2472[17:30:34] <Andy999999999> Bliepo: I think that's what i will do for now, just easy pass like 55555 or so
2486[17:33:42] <Andy999999999> Bliepo: no need for sarcasm, this is PC is going to be hooked up to tv in living room for everyone to use; i will add other normal users, but for watching YT or videos on TV i thought it is good idea to have easy "common" user without any password, that's all.
2487[17:33:54] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2489[17:34:31] <Andy999999999> no one is going to use it as standard desktop for office or even emails
2490[17:34:42] <Bliepo> I was actually not being sarcastic since I did read that before.
2491[17:35:28] <Bliepo> It´s just fun to say: hey, that thing everybody tells you not to do? DO IT!
2492[17:35:39] <Andy999999999> ok... anyways, probly except for me no one else will use it as 'normal' PC, think of it as HTPC or something in that design
2508[17:42:44] <greycat> If it were my project, I would probably pursue the passwordless (or "blank password" since at least one person seems to think these are conceptually different) login just to see how it's done.
2511[17:43:31] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2512[17:43:39] <alkisg> greycat: if I may speak, nopasswdlogins work with any password; it's ignored. With blank password I meant a hashed '', so a valid shadow entry, not an empty one
2513[17:43:43] <BCMM> greycat: in this context: "passwordless" would mean you just click and it logs in, and "blank password" would mean you click, the password field appears, and you have to press enter with the field empty
2514[17:44:04] <greycat> I don't even use a DM, so these subtle distinctions are lost on me.
2515[17:44:11] <alkisg> You said that "noone has has tested those, we don't have documentation", and I spend a couple of weeks testing all debian and ubuntu versions about them, so I thought I'd help
2516[17:44:25] <greycat> All I know is how it works on the regular console.
2517[17:44:55] <alkisg> The test you did involved an empty shadow entry; this is different to nopasswdlogin and blank hashed passwords
2518[17:45:10] <f8e3_> are ssh tunnels table to push data from server to client, eg with redis?
2520[17:45:15] <alkisg> With nopasswdlogin, test pass may be asdf, and you can type qwer, and it still logs in, it doesn't care
2521[17:45:16] <BCMM> greycat: in a more common context, "passwordless" means password login is completely disabled, i.e. no valid hash in /etc/shadow. as used for accounts used only by daemons or that should only be logged in to with ssh key pairs. in that context, a blank password is *also* a distinct concept.
2522[17:45:27] <greycat> You can have a forward or a reverse ssh tunnel.
2527[17:47:09] <Andy999999999> jhutchins_wk i'm not in rush, i might just do that for now until solution is found
2528[17:47:47] <greycat> In both cases, information (packets) flows in both directions. With a regular tunnel, the client listens for connections, and the server initiates new connections. With a reverse tunnel, the server listens for connections, and the client initiates new connections.
2529[17:48:04] *** Quits: mos_basik (quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2530[17:48:20] <Andy999999999> greycat BCMM alkisg - if it is possible in Arch then it should be possible in debian i think? its just as one of you said - i asked for something very uncommon to do
2531[17:48:24] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
2532[17:48:36] <f8e3_> what to use to get data feed from server to client embedded device (both linux)
2533[17:49:00] <greycat> I don't know what you mean by "data feed". What are you trying to do?
2535[17:49:19] <f8e3_> i dunno ssh tunnels, rest api, websockets, i just need very simple 30s log exchange like one sentence similar to old school beepers or rss feed headlines
2536[17:49:56] <greycat> You can set up remote syslog with rsyslogd or whatever. Or you could just set up a listening service on a socket, and use netcat to talk to it.
2537[17:50:17] <greycat> I don't know why you're asking about tunnels if all you want is normal client/server comms.
2538[17:50:27] <f8e3_> from a virtual server which process it to a embedded device like rasperry pi/zero i will build, android doesnt cut it, so some embedded device with screen and battery and now i wonder what connection that reliably querys the server, i guess on cellular the carrier is instable so no ssh i guess but what
2544[17:53:33] <maxismyname> hi, im having issues with rtl8822be. It is listed as *DISABLED in lshw. The driver listed in lspci is r8822be. When I try to ip link set wlan0 up, I get a RNETLINK permission denied (as root). Everything I find online predates 4.17 (i'm on 4.19), when the drivers were added to the linux repo. I'm at a loss regarding where to go from here. rfkill is
2545[17:53:34] <maxismyname> no block
2546[17:53:59] <dvs> I've never seen that driver before
2552[17:55:19] <f8e3_> i currently have redis pub sub on the server but its local only, so the transfer i might use syslog? or a redis consumer to rest api adapter and poll from embedded device?
2553[17:56:14] <dvs> maxismyname, you're in luck though! There's firmware for it in the firmware-realtek package
2556[17:56:41] <Andy999999999> maxismyname reminds me of $100 i wasted on new wlan card once... i found working drivers few yrs later when i no longer had the machine i bought it for
2557[17:56:43] <greycat> f8e3_: why can't you just set up a listening service on whatever machine is less wacky-unstable-duct-tape-crap, and use netcat to talk to it from the other one?
2564[17:58:55] *** Quits: ksk (~ksk@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2565[17:59:01] <f8e3_> greycat i am fully open to soltuions yet unaware of the possibilities, i guess netcat cuts it, and the stable server is an http server then iguess
2590[18:09:39] <f8e3_> i read through the netcat man and it looks like a probing tool but not the foo-tool to get a data feed from a server to an embedded device
2591[18:10:01] <f8e3_> i really am open to any: if logging tool ok, if tunnel ok, if higher level also ok, it just needs simple
2592[18:10:35] <f8e3_> should i open a nginx server and query via http ?
2601[18:13:49] *** Quits: gordonfish (~gordonfis@replaced-ip) (Read error: Network is unreachable)
2602[18:14:50] <f8e3_> it all began with a smartwatch idea, an embedded device that not lets me pull out phone, but have a tiny screen on my wrist to read text line updates on forex data. now android doesnt cut it argl api screen awake power etc and abandonded to use a 4 inc smartphone on a wristband; so now i look at arduino/raspi + cellular adapter, ok hw in place, but whats the software to pull the datastrings from a redis topic
2603[18:14:52] <f8e3_> to the wearable, if theres an update ~1min print it to tiny screen on wrist. thats idea but what sw tools
2606[18:15:59] <greycat> So you want the wearable device to query a server periodically?
2607[18:16:14] <Andy999999999> does anyone knows the name of the package for the .conf file editor with gui? I have use it in some distro few days ago, but i don't remember the name
2608[18:16:51] *** Quits: maxismyname (6de7c2b2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2609[18:18:30] <f8e3_> greycat yes
2610[18:18:34] <jhutchins_wk> Andy999999999: vim
2611[18:18:43] <Andy999999999> ha ha good one :)
2612[18:19:06] <jhutchins_wk> Andy999999999: vim does have a gui mode
2613[18:19:09] <greycat> Andy999999999: seriously, learn how to use a NON-graphical text editor. Any editor. nano, vim, emacs.
2620[18:21:25] <greycat> f8e3_: OK, then the main design decisions will center around what kind of information the server is providing, and *how* that information is being made available. A web server would work perfectly well. You can curl/wget from the wearable device and display whatever comes back.
2621[18:21:42] <Andy999999999> greycat i know, in long run it is neccessary, but i can't learn everything at once right away :( to setup this box to my basics tons of conf will have 2b edited, and i don't want to f...k it up
2622[18:22:25] <jhutchins_wk> Andy999999999: There's nothing about a GUI editor that will prevent that.
2623[18:22:32] <greycat> Then use nano. It's the simplest one.
2624[18:22:55] <jhutchins_wk> Andy999999999: Vi, on the other hand, has extensions like vigr or visudo that will error-check your work.
2625[18:23:03] <Andy999999999> first - i want to edit grub look to different resolution coz its gonna ridiculusly small on tv, and i know its done in conf
2640[18:29:28] <Andy999999999> perhaps i will just keep windows for some games - completely disconnected from internet, though most games nowadays require internet so that may be a moot
2644[18:30:44] <Andy999999999> even a f...g solitaire wants to report to mothership lol
2645[18:32:43] <humpled> eh i didn't mention windows, anyway don't read any old docs that tell you to edit grub.conf
2646[18:33:10] <humpled> just change /etc/default/grub and run update-grub afterwards to regenerate the confs
2647[18:34:21] <jhutchins_wk> It's interesting how the level of desired customization appears to be inversely proportionate to the knowledge and experience of the user.
2652[18:36:43] <GNU\colossus> now that was beautifully put, jhutchins_wk :^)
2653[18:36:45] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2654[18:36:47] <Andy999999999> jhutchins_wk yes i have customized everything that was possible in windows, and yes my knowledge of linux is close to zero - otherwise i wouldn't ask. WEre you linux master from the crib?
2657[18:38:32] <Andy999999999> and btw i dont think changing resolution of boot screen to more readable is a customization, it should be really easy even for noob like me to do (am not complaining, its just observation)
2673[18:41:01] <jelly> Andy999999999: the simplest way to make things larger in grub (boot loader) is probably to disable the graphic mode and let it run in 80x25 (720x400) text mode
2676[18:42:26] <jelly> Andy999999999: if the system is booted in legacy mode not UEFI, this can be done by uncommenting #GRUB_TERMINAL=console line in /etc/default/grub
2677[18:42:39] <jelly> Andy999999999: and running update-grub command as root
2703[18:49:52] <jelly> that means you don't have sudo privileges set up. To get them, make your normal user member of group sudo. As root, run: adduser username sudo, then log out completely and log back in
2705[18:50:03] <Marsu> hi folks, i have the problem that my resolution is resettet when debian 10 restarts. How can i make the resolution permanent in wayland?
2706[18:50:06] <jelly> Andy999999999: also, sudo might not be installed at all
2707[18:50:29] <jelly> oh, sorry, it's installed if you got that "not in sudoers" message
2708[18:50:42] <jelly> This incident will be reported!!
2709[18:51:09] <Andy999999999> jelly: im doing it as root, it opened in terminal itself, i have uncommented that line but not sure how to save it now
2710[18:51:33] <Andy999999999> ^O or ^0 to "write out" ?
2727[18:55:11] <greycat> "vipw" and "visudo" and "vigr" all make a copy of the original file, launch an editor for the copy, and then perform a basic syntax check on the saved results before copying the copy back to the original
2739[18:56:52] <becks`> hi, what's the easiest way to create a vpn-like tunnel from windows to debian, without encryption?
2740[18:57:19] <jelly> becks`: what do you mean by "vpn-like"?
2741[18:57:32] <Andy999999999> going to test how it looks, thanks again for all help in case i'm not back (if it crashed lol)
2742[18:57:49] <jelly> Andy999999999: don't forget to run update-grub
2743[18:57:59] <Andy999999999> oh, what is that
2744[18:58:08] <becks`> jelly by that I mean there's a client I can start on windows, connect to the server and use the server's ip address in the internet
2745[18:58:08] <Andy999999999> thx god i didnt reboot yet lol
2750[18:59:48] <jelly> becks`: an ssh client like putty usually has socks-proxy capability. They call it Dynamic Forwarding
2751[18:59:57] <Andy999999999> jelly i ran update-grub, but it only showed me that it detected window on other partitions, whicjh it already had before?
2755[19:00:46] <greycat> Andy999999999: well, that's good then.
2756[19:00:57] <jelly> Andy999999999: update-grub reads stuff from the file you edited, reads stuff from disk partitions, and generates ACTUAL grub config file
2757[19:01:03] <SerajewelKS> becks`: note that there is encryption -- you said "without encryption" but with an SSH tunnel there will be encryption necessarily as the tunneled stream is encapsulated in the encryption SSH connection.
2758[19:01:13] <Andy999999999> is there anything else to update- or run before i reboot?
2768[19:02:55] <jelly> like installing an actual proxy on the server and using that
2769[19:03:15] <SerajewelKS> or, if it's for a single connection, a systemd TCP proxy
2770[19:03:19] *** Quits: Theroxat_ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2771[19:03:25] <becks`> since the traffic itself is already encrypted, I would prefer an unencrypted tunnel for performance reasons
2772[19:03:54] <SerajewelKS> becks`: right, so describe your use case. for example how many simultaneous connections, do they all go to the same endpoint from the server, etc.
2773[19:04:01] <jelly> becks`: performance reasons should be considered if you already see a bottleneck.
2776[19:04:29] <jelly> becks`: is anything slow already, doing an ssh -D (putty equivalent) tunnel?
2777[19:06:20] <jelly> becks`: in putty, Connection -> SSH -> Tunnels -> enter a source port number, like 55555, pick Dynamic, then connect to your server using ssh
2778[19:06:27] <becks`> haven't tried it yet, will do now :) thanks!
2779[19:06:42] <Marsu> hi folks, i have the problem that my resolution is resettet when debian 10 restarts. How can i make the resolution permanent in wayland?
2780[19:06:55] <jelly> after that, configure your tool (eg. a web browser) to use a socks proxy on localhost on the chosen port
2785[19:07:22] <SerajewelKS> becks`: as an example, if the client doesn't want to do SOCKS, and the final destination is always the same, in theory you can use a systemd proxy on the server. this also assumes that you don't need authentication on the proxy, or can restrict it at the network level. one of the benefits of ssh tunneling is that authentication is built-in.
2786[19:07:44] <SerajewelKS> becks`: you may also want to use a non-dynamic tunnel if the client doesn't do SOCKS and the remote endpoint does not change
2787[19:07:46] *** Quits: saptaks (~saptaks@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2793[19:08:36] <jelly> SerajewelKS: which is why I did not consider telling the user who wanted access to "internet" about nc or redir or your systemd tcp forwarder thingy that I did not even know existed
2834[19:25:07] <greycat> tsujp: you might be looking for "networking" (the service name). I don't know what happens if you restart that on a live system. It might bring all the interfaces down and back up, which might be ... interrupt-y.
2835[19:25:10] <Andy9> one rather important question: does terminal always launch by itself on logon?
2836[19:25:22] <jelly> kreyren: did you know? judd's also available in: /msg judd file mysql_config
2841[19:25:56] <dpkg> DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: replaced-url
2845[19:27:46] <Marsu> hi folks, i have the problem that my resolution is resetted when debian 10 restarts. How can i make the resolution permanent in wayland?
2846[19:27:46] <dpkg> Conky is a highly configurable system monitor for X based on torsmo. replaced-url
2847[19:27:52] <kreyren> is it sane to use apt-cache file in script assuming that i'm checking if libmariadb-dev-compat is available since script needs mysql_config on debian?
2848[19:28:03] <kreyren> apt always complains about beeing used in a script
2849[19:28:07] *** Quits: Tollmer (3e9d02dc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2850[19:28:08] *** Quits: troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2857[19:29:14] <Bushmills> factoid can be misunderstood: "ask me ... or debian maintainer..."
2858[19:29:15] <greycat> I shouldn't do this, but I'm going to do it anyway... WHY are you writing a script that queries the "avaialability" of packages?
2890[19:35:00] <kreyren> i would like to avoid interactive bash when possible
2891[19:35:13] <greycat> kreyren: by the time you add that, you might as well just say "if x is missing, install y". A nice hard-coded associative array.
2892[19:35:16] <Andy9> guys need help. After i locked screen it turned black and i couldnt get back, no clicking or any key could get me back, i had to crash it and reboot
2894[19:35:43] <jelly> kreyren: best installers on Debian come in .deb format and are available from an apt repo for each specific distro release. They are not scripts. They Depends: on packages they need.
2895[19:35:54] <greycat> (or nested lists, in languages that have nested lists, which bash is not)
2896[19:36:21] <Andy9> Also terminal is in some kind of autorun setting, it opened on login again
2897[19:36:55] <jelly> kreyren: I you really have to, keep an associative array with supported releases and a set of packages to install for each.
2898[19:36:57] <kreyren> greycat, jelly i see, will investigate thanks for suggestions
2899[19:37:03] <jelly> if*
2900[19:37:18] <greycat> jelly: oh god, there's a THIRD dimension? Different releases? That can't be done in a single associative array, then.
2901[19:37:32] <Bushmills> greycat: i suppose that's the one
2902[19:37:42] <jelly> stretch? Install foo and bar. xenial? Install fooold and bar12. Etc.
2903[19:37:50] *** Quits: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2904[19:37:56] <greycat> jelly: oh, without the probing of files. Removing one of the dimensions.
2911[19:38:33] <jelly> unsupported (distro, release)? Bail out and point to documentation and how to file bugs.
2912[19:38:42] <Andy9> when you lock screen how do you unlock later?
2913[19:38:44] <BazookaTooth> Andy9: xfce settings > terminal is under session/startup and locking screen is under power manager
2914[19:38:54] <Andy9> ok thx
2915[19:39:33] <greycat> Sora: The current stable release is Debian 10, which has gcc 8.3.0. If you need newer than that, then we can talk about it....
2916[19:39:44] <jelly> greycat: now it was me who almost asked "why"
2917[19:39:48] <de-facto> Dang i lost all the files matching tar --exclude=data on my system. can i repair with debsums?
2946[19:44:26] <greycat> Whatever they're using on Windows 7 here, it requires a non-modifier key.
2947[19:44:39] <Andy9> greycat: i tried ALL of them lol, and moving and clicking mouse too ofcoz lol! screen remained black and later powered off itself (as it should after 30sec) that's why i had to crash it
2948[19:45:02] <greycat> driver/firmware issues?
2949[19:45:17] <jelly> Andy9: that's not expected behaviour
2950[19:45:26] <Andy9> jelly i thought so
2951[19:48:14] <Andy9> i'm looking at xfce power manager, it has very few options there and nothing is unusual there; where else should i look for this?
2952[19:48:36] <greycat> Missing firmware is the first thing I would check for.
2953[19:48:44] <greycat> dmesg | grep -i firmware
2954[19:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
2955[19:49:06] *** Quits: cfoch (uid153227@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2956[19:49:07] <Andy9> also "switch user" is still greyed out even though there are 2 user accts now
3010[19:58:00] *** Quits: fionnan (~fionnan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3011[19:58:06] <Andy9> greycat i don't know; at this moment i'm not sure do i understand the term "firmware" correctly (which to me is a software loaded to chip on pci card or phone etc)
3054[20:06:27] <jelly> Andy9: if the system has old BIOS it might have some known bugs with intel gpu that might require some additional boot kernel parameters to work around
3055[20:06:54] <laidback_01> or to even install, do you need any extra modules to run on a VLAN?
3056[20:06:55] <jelly> laidback_01: I don't remember whether Debian 10 has vlan support in the installer. Debian 9 did not.
3057[20:07:07] <Andy9> jelly actually i updated BIOS to latest recently when i found there was newer one at Dell site (2018)
3065[20:08:38] <de-facto> how can i check my buster installation for missing files?
3066[20:08:49] <de-facto> i tried debsums -ac
3067[20:08:50] <jelly> laidback_01: can you temporarily put the switch port into access mode (untagged), install debian, then ifdown enwhatever, edit /etc/network/interfaces, replace enwhatever with enwhatever.VLANIDNUMBER
3111[20:16:13] <Andy9> im probably wrong but imho there has to be something missing if locking screen disable kbd and mouse, or makes it not being read
3112[20:16:41] <omarek> Hi, I'm recovering a hard drive with broken GPT. I cloned it with dd onto a 5TiB flash drive. I'm puzzled that system doesn't stop booting at the same spot. Is it to be expected?
3120[20:17:44] <omarek> I'm worried. The drive with damaged backup GPT header was tested with smartctl -t long, and no errors were found whatsover.
3121[20:17:51] <jelly> Andy9: do you have a second machine on the same network, and if so can you ping the debian system when it goes blank?
3122[20:18:14] <jhutchins_wk> omarek: So probably not a hardware problem.
3123[20:18:24] <omarek> Andy9: USB 3.0, still takes hours to make a backup of a 4TiB hard drive.
3124[20:18:25] <jelly> Andy9: and if you can, can you install openssh-server on debian, and log in remotely via ssh when it happens?
3125[20:18:37] <greycat> Andy9: as jelly said, this isn't normal behavior. Could be a hardware/firmware bug of some kind, video driver bug, etc. Personally I would just disable the screen locker/saver until you can figure out the details.
3126[20:18:40] <omarek> jhutchins_wk: but why does the drive and its clone stop booting at different spots?
3129[20:19:05] <omarek> jhutchins_wk: The original drive stops at "Alert! UUID=blah-blah-blah does not exist. Dropping to a shell!"
3130[20:19:19] <jelly> omarek: only the backup GPT is problematic, the first one is fine?
3131[20:19:28] <omarek> The cloned drive stops booting at [OK] Reached target Network is ONline
3132[20:19:37] <omarek> Then it goes "You are in emergency mode".
3133[20:19:46] <omarek> jelly: gdisk says so.
3134[20:19:56] <Andy9> jelly: i do, greycat: this is important, as tv is plasma screen and it would get screenburns if i don't set up PC to go to screensaver after 1min of inactivity and go blank after next few min
3135[20:20:06] * jelly realizes he does not actually know which GPT is primary, the one at the beginning or the one at the end of disk
3136[20:20:11] <omarek> I figured out the original drive has HPA enabled, but I was afraid to disable it without a full backup I have now.
3141[20:20:50] <omarek> And gdisk complains about "partition larger than the disk", which - as I googled - happens with HPA enabled.
3142[20:21:38] <omarek> My plan is now, to disable HPA on the flash clone of the hard drive, and repair GPT with gdisk. Any better ideas?
3143[20:21:49] <jelly> omarek: are there more clues when you erase the "quiet" kernel boot parameter in grub?
3144[20:22:25] <omarek> jelly: Haven't tried that yet. Should I try no quiet with the original drive, or the flash clone?
3145[20:22:44] <jelly> why not both
3146[20:23:06] <omarek> Also, it's strange that the original drive appears as only a single partition in lsblk and similar tools (due to protective MBR), but the dd clone on flash mounts with no problem...
3147[20:23:12] <jelly> does "HPA" shrink the effective disk size a little?
3148[20:23:20] <omarek> jelly: Yes, it does.
3149[20:23:35] <de-facto> how can i check debian for health? i guess some files could be missing...
3150[20:24:08] <de-facto> systemctl and journalctl look fine, aswell as debsums -ac
3151[20:24:13] <de-facto> anything else i could check?
3152[20:24:27] <omarek> jelly: Okay, I will test both. Then I will try turning off HPA and fixing GPT with gdisk.
3153[20:24:32] <jelly> de-facto: if you have a recent backup of the whole system, compare which files exist?
3154[20:24:48] <omarek> (it wouldn't let me to write fixed GPT with gdisk because of the "partition too big" error)
3155[20:24:59] <de-facto> i dont, i restored from a corrupted backup where glob "data" was left out
3159[20:25:25] <jelly> omarek: it might be prudent to keep the exact disk size as it is on the original. Is this disk connected to some sort of hw raid array?
3160[20:25:37] <omarek> jelly: I read the GPT at the end of the disk is backup GPT.
3170[20:27:23] <pasiz> primary gpt is the first partition table at beginning (just after mbr). That's the reason why secondary corrupts on dd to another drive
3171[20:27:23] <jelly> de-facto: do you have a locate database, that is, a backup thereof?
3172[20:27:24] <omarek> jelly: this superuser question is very similar to my problem replaced-url
3173[20:27:46] <de-facto> jelly, not sure what you mean by that
3174[20:27:56] <omarek> Do you know a tool that can repair GPT and is not confused by GPT?
3175[20:27:58] <jelly> de-facto: do you have "locate" command present?
3176[20:28:03] <omarek> (not confused by HPA!!!)
3177[20:28:18] <de-facto> yes that was installed
3178[20:28:35] <de-facto> but i think i never used it
3186[20:29:49] <jelly> de-facto: apparently at least some versions of locate (there's at least 2-3 different implementation in each debian release) does what you're asking
3187[20:30:10] <de-facto> jelly, so what does "locate -E data" tell me? the last index state?
3188[20:30:10] <jelly> -E [...] Only print out such names that currently do not exist (instead of such names that existed when the database was created).
3189[20:30:22] <omarek> pasiz: when I launch 'gparted' it pops up "Invalid argument during seek for read on /dev/sda"
3191[20:30:33] <greycat> it tells you "you should read the manual"
3192[20:30:53] <greycat> however, my locate(1) in buster hasn't got a -E
3193[20:31:17] <jelly> de-facto: locate keeps a database of all the file paths that existed at some point, refreshed daily
3194[20:31:42] <de-facto> thats super smart actually :))
3195[20:32:12] <pasiz> omarek: should say that your backup gpt is corrupted if that's only problem on your disk
3196[20:32:25] <de-facto> so i think that could narrow it down to some /usr/share/icons/hicolor/* paths
3197[20:32:26] <jelly> de-facto: if you can manage to tell it to display the whole database, you can hunt for a) possibly affected paths or if -E option exists, b) it will say which ones are missing right now
3206[20:33:12] <jelly> de-facto: caveats: some paths are excluded when generating the locatedb
3207[20:33:16] <de-facto> jelly i ran "locate -E" which wanted a pattern so i ran "locate -E data"
3208[20:33:33] * greycat fees left out
3209[20:33:41] <SerajewelKS> snooky: "udevadm monitor" could be of use, though you're going to have to be more specific about what you're trying to accomplish
3210[20:33:45] <pasiz> omarek: also you could use gdisk and see, if your partitions seem ok (p), if so, then write with (w)
3211[20:33:48] <greycat> how come my locate doesn't have this option and everyone else's does?
3212[20:33:50] <omarek> Hmm I launched gparted but clicked ignore/cancel on proposals to fix GPT. However now when I examine the clone in gdisk it says GPT is 'present', not damaged. Confused.
3213[20:33:54] <omarek> Stuff is changing behind my back.
3220[20:34:24] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
3221[20:34:35] <snooky> SerajewelKS, as with a radio or media receiver or kodi. if you plug in a stick this should be searched for music files and then an advertisement to be started
3222[20:34:41] <snooky> jelly, bash
3223[20:34:44] <jelly> de-facto: I don't know what kind of pattern tar uses. locate uses substrings by default.
3224[20:35:08] <jelly> de-facto: substring match across the full path, to be precise
3225[20:35:10] <SerajewelKS> snooky: doesn't kodi have something to do this already?
3226[20:35:18] <de-facto> so if a file contains substring "data" and is missing the "locate -E data" will display it?
3227[20:35:34] <snooky> SerajewelKS, yes.. but i dont use kodi.. that was as example
3235[20:36:16] <pasiz> snooky: udev rules is quite good for that
3236[20:36:22] <SerajewelKS> snooky: you've given us examples of what you _might_ want to do at some point but you haven't actually told us what you're trying to do
3237[20:36:22] <de-facto> jelly thats extremely helpful, i think i found something to fix
3238[20:36:38] <jelly> de-facto: my idea was to ask locate to show all the files, then compare to current state
3239[20:36:42] *** Quits: subopt_ (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3240[20:37:02] <jelly> de-facto: also, I don't know how to "ask locate to show all the files" :-)
3241[20:37:25] <jelly> locate '*' ?
3242[20:37:31] <de-facto> yeah but i guess those with "data" in their name should be enough for me already
3243[20:37:35] <greycat> jelly: out of curiosity, what does your /etc/alternatives/locate point to?
3244[20:37:41] <SerajewelKS> snooky: hypothetical questions will yield hypothetical answers
3245[20:37:49] <snooky> a stick is inserted write in file foobar "stick on XXXX connected to XXXX" and that every time a stick is connected. so every time a stick is plugged in "execute script foobar.sh"
3254[20:40:01] <de-facto> indeed i had to "dpkg -S /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/stock/data" to find out that i had to "apt install --reinstall hicolor-icon-theme"
3302[20:48:19] <jelly> it was probably like that already.
3303[20:48:24] <delt> what would really be nice when installing/updating tons of packages at once, is when it needs user interaction (ie. keep your old config file, or replace with newer version? Y/N) after a certain delay it would skip that package, install the other ones, and then come back to it/those at the *end* of the install/update
3304[20:48:27] <de-facto> thanks a lot jelly that idea with locate was really smart :))
3309[20:49:30] <greycat> delt: it can't safely rearrange the package installation order at that point. It's already been decided according to Pre-Depends: and so on.
3310[20:49:31] <dvs> delt, the problem is that other packages may depend on the package that needs the configuration.
3313[20:49:50] <de-facto> i think i have it recovered, systemctl and journalclt are happy, debsums -ac is happy, locate -E '*' is fixed, my webroot i could restore from another backup
3314[20:50:10] <de-facto> postgres also works just fine
3315[20:50:15] <delt> ohhhh *duh* scratch that then :)
3318[20:51:24] <delt> if it just omits the user-interaction-requiring packages after X seconds/minutes inactivity, then other packages might not be possible to install (in a way that works)
3319[20:51:35] <delt> ie. those that depend on said user-inte...
3327[20:52:47] <delt> so, it would need to prune the packages that require user interaction, AND all dependent packages
3328[20:52:49] <omarek> Habbie: gdisk prints a SCARY message when I try to move backup GPT to the end of the disk: "This will overwrite existing partitions"
3329[20:52:59] <pasiz> also --yes works on apt
3330[20:53:04] <omarek> Should I do that?
3331[20:53:26] <nico_> Po
3332[20:53:29] <delt> still, it would be nice to have an option to do that (14:52:46 < delt> so, it would need to prune the packages that require user interaction, AND all dependent packages) and then report which packages weren't installed at the end
3333[20:54:05] <Habbie> omarek, ouch
3334[20:54:09] <Habbie> omarek, i don't know, sorry
3335[20:54:20] <pasiz> omarek: is your partition table as it should before you write it
3336[20:55:46] <omarek> pasiz: Yes, and it's the clone.
3337[20:56:00] <omarek> Can I just ignore the warning about GPT not being at the end of the disk?
3348[20:57:40] <delt> pasiz: that could potentially clobber config files that i want to keep
3349[20:57:56] *** Quits: metbsd (~metbsd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3350[20:58:16] <delt> pasiz: i guess another approach would be to keep backups of those, and if using -y --yes just list those that have been clobbered
3351[20:58:33] <delt> with where their backups are
3368[21:02:27] *** Quits: omarek (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3369[21:03:02] <Andy9> shoot me, i just realized there is no sound at all lol! there is definitly huge difference, actually another discrepancy between whow debian live disc runs and when you install it with installation disc1.
3380[21:08:08] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3381[21:09:26] <uniqdom> Hello, I wonder if there is an app to make a phone call. There are apps in Android to have Debian and other GNU/Linux operating systems. I have installed UserLAnd and now I have Debian stable. I wonder if I can make a phone call from that Debian running inside Android.
3396[21:18:17] <Andy9> i added acpi-support package and it's dependencies for "It is able to: ... Suspend, hibernate and resume the computer, with workarounds for hardware that needs it." But i still can't find screensaver settings/options/chooser anywhere.
3397[21:18:28] <cbthree> Has anyone here who owns a Samsung Chromebook 3 (CELES) managed to get its microsd slot working? If you insert a card *before* boot, that card shows up (automounted) and works kind of ok. If you unmount the card and reinsert it, its not automounted, you have to mount it using the command line. Moreover, if you insert the card *after* you boot it is neither recognized nor automounted and - what is even worse - cannot be mounte
3398[21:18:29] <cbthree> d using the command line
3399[21:18:37] <pasiz> uniqdom: you found the first app. After searching second and spend your precious time, you understand that there isn't. But if you install some HFP server you could make your android call from debian, by emulating hands free... That is not answer your question...
3400[21:20:32] <uniqdom> pasiz: I see, thanks for your time.
3408[21:23:08] <Andy9> i knoiw you guys are tired of what looks like stupid questions to you, but i can't find damn screensaver at all. And I did install it
3429[21:31:55] <greycat> the tracker took me to the source package "libappindicator" which does not have python-* listed under the binaries
3430[21:32:00] <uniqdom> Andy9: are you using Gnome? Cinnamon? lxde? Xfce? another one?
3431[21:32:29] <Andy9> or preferences of what? display? not there, not in graphics, not ianywhjere else i have looked, the only mention of screensaver is in xfce power manager under security (to
3445[21:36:32] <greycat> uniqdom: from previous discussion, Andy9 installed with both xfce and mate selected, and is using lightdm to run an xfce session currently. his lspci -nn is at replaced-url
3446[21:37:20] <greycat> Older intel chipset, integrated video without firmware.
3447[21:37:49] <Andy9> i know, junk to most but it works fine
3448[21:38:05] <f8e3_> to extend on the earlier: how do i build a api for http requests i guess to exchange unstructured data, should i write my own process or use a databaseserver with restful api and expose it (i never wrote apis, so security wise very unsafe :D)
3476[21:47:47] <filpAM> Is there a way to check how much space is occupying each package?
3477[21:48:27] <jhutchins_wk> filpAM: What's your goal?
3478[21:48:44] <filpAM> So I can know which unused packages I should remove first
3479[21:48:53] <Andy9> jhutchins_wk power management settings is the only place where i found any mention of screensaver, but it is under last tab "security" as option for locking screen after x time when screensaver is activated; nowhere there is any option to actually set up screensaver
3480[21:49:04] <jhutchins_wk> filpAM: Are you low on disk space?
3481[21:49:22] <uniqdom> f8e3_: Sorry, I think that I was confused about Flask. Maybe it is not good for your purpuse.
3486[21:50:19] <jhutchins_wk> filpAM: Disk space is cheap these days. It's better to understand what each package is for and why it was installed than to randomly rip things out.
3500[21:53:28] <filpAM> Yeah, that is why I want to know if there is such utility which reports packages disk usage and if they don't depend on anything and are safe to remove
3503[21:53:38] <Andy9> uniqdom i did set some cool fireworks screensaver when i tested debian before installation (from live disc) and it worked for sure; that's why i said earlier that what is on live disc (or what is auto-installed there) is not the same as actual installation from installdisc1
3515[21:55:29] <Andy9> is it "Debian desktop environment" that is used by default on live disc?
3516[21:55:57] <filpAM> jhutchins_wk: Do know you know such graphical utility which reports packages disk usage? (If there aren't command line alternatives..)
3517[21:55:58] <Andy9> because for sure it wasnt xfce
3519[21:56:09] <greycat> Andy9: that phrase doesn't mean much. If you are foolish enough to select "debian desktop" but NOT choose one underneath that, it just chooses one for you, and the one it chooses is usually GNOME.
3528[21:57:29] <Andy9> greycat then which DE is selected by live disc as default? (i hope it doesnt do randoms lol)
3529[21:57:33] <lope> greycat, I don't see any >4.21 kernels there named backport etc
3530[21:57:35] <greycat> Hmm, not officially backported yet, but your best bet is to do something involving the sid kernel package. Specifically *what* you do with it, I have NFI.
3531[21:57:58] <lope> greycat, I see.
3532[21:58:04] <lope> greycat, thanks.
3533[21:58:08] <greycat> Andy9: each live image-thing has one chosen and embedded in the name of said live thing.
3534[21:58:19] <lope> greycat, what is the experimental stuff, is it available for buster?
3536[21:58:26] <greycat> Do not use that experimental thing.
3537[21:58:35] <greycat> The sid package is NEWER and SAFER.
3538[21:58:47] <lope> greycat, okay
3539[21:58:53] <filpAM> sid is next?
3540[21:58:56] <greycat> !sid
3541[21:58:57] <dpkg> i guess sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
3550[21:59:52] <greycat> lope: this is not how stable WORKS.
3551[22:00:02] <lope> greycat, so buster is stuck on 4.19 forever?
3552[22:00:02] <filpAM> uniqdom: thanks
3553[22:00:07] <greycat> Yes. It is stable.
3554[22:00:09] <greycat> !stable
3555[22:00:09] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). replaced-url
3558[22:00:19] <Andy9> greycat i cant tell now which one live disc it was, all i remember it was amd64 (i already overburnt it on dvd-rw with installation disc 1). I do have .img file on another machine, buth Thunar doesn't see my home network... :(
3560[22:00:26] <BazookaTooth> Andy9: just run xscreensaver from terminal. i'm on xfce 4.14 which actually has its own screensaver and can't recall where the screensaver shortcut is on 4.12
3562[22:01:01] <greycat> BazookaTooth: unless I missed something, Andy9's goal is not to RUN the screen saver, but to PREVENT it from ever BEING run, because it's causing his display to go pear-shaped.
3563[22:01:24] <Andy9> BazookaTooth: need root or sudo or just "xscreensaver" ?
3605[22:11:50] <Andy9> Now that is very misleading setting-naming there: "Blank After:" - i know from previous tries it means "ACtivate selected screensaver after:" - someone should really fix that
3639[22:21:35] <Andy9> nThank you guys. Screensaver is set and working :) now to next question: automount the data hdd which is ntfs? i mean mount it automatically on boot for all users
3661[22:27:28] <Andy9> well, i can't format it with ext4 because it has almost 4TB of stuff and i have no other large drive to move it all for now, so it has to stay as ntfs until i buy another hdd
3662[22:27:45] <BazookaTooth> thunar should see it with gvfs
3666[22:29:01] <Andy9> thunar see it, i already tested few files, videos and music, it has no problems. BUT i have to mount it (click on it on desktop) every time i login
3677[22:32:19] <Andy9> i know what u thinking - to wipe it and format in ext4 but can't do it before i can offload those files (i dont care about tv series or such, but there are a lot of our own videos and photos too)
3678[22:32:26] <Bushmills> common experience dictates that in this case the data is worthless, and the drive can be used to create a different file system on it.
3679[22:32:34] <BazookaTooth> Andy9: you should read about ntfs on linux systems before screwing around with that drive too much
3687[22:38:02] <Andy9> Bushmills thats true and i do have raid1 on w2k machine that is just home "storage" box and does nothing else but unfortunately on this machine everyone dumped photos n vids because it was conveniently there just by the tv ;)
3704[22:43:33] <BazookaTooth> i use an ntfs partition to pass stuff between various systems but unconcerned about the reliablity of it so... ^
3705[22:43:34] <greycat> I don't even know how ntfs stores ownerships. If you can write to it, then you can make new files, and how is the new file's owner identified?
3706[22:44:21] <Andy9> by permissions; if u dont have access granted by admin (root) all u can do is just see it listed, can't access
3707[22:44:42] <Andy9> each owner has unique UID like linux
3708[22:45:17] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3709[22:45:48] <greycat> With VFAT at least I understand things. There *isn't* an owner in VFAT. That field simply does not exist. So when you mount a VFAT under Linux, you ask mount to make all the files APPEAR to be owned by fred, or root, or whatever, but it's just an illusion. If you make a new file, the new file has no owner, because it's VFAT, so it doesn't matter who should have owned it.
3710[22:45:53] <BazookaTooth> forced uuid and guid options in fstab works fine
3711[22:45:57] <greycat> But with NTFS? No clue.
3712[22:46:43] <BazookaTooth> but i wouldn't automount it and let people use it without understanding the risk
3714[22:47:29] <Andy9> greycat i don't know linux, so i can't tell (i had some horrible experience with ext2 when i tried linux for first time) but it looks to me ntfs is very similiar to ext3 /4 has journaling etc too
3716[22:48:09] <BazookaTooth> never had an issue with ntfs-3g aside from dirty file system warnings
3717[22:48:11] <greycat> I am not talking about journaling, or anything like that. I am talking about who owns a file.
3718[22:48:34] <greycat> !ntfsrw
3719[22:48:34] <dpkg> NTFS-3G is a userspace driver providing NTFS read and write support. "aptitude install ntfs-3g". Usage examples: replaced-url
3720[22:48:39] <greycat> !user accessible ntfs
3721[22:48:39] <dpkg> To get an NTFS or VFAT file system accessible by users and groups on the local machine, man mount; man 5 fstab; and read about the umask, fmask, dmask, uid, and gid options. You'll end up sticking something like conv=auto,uid=<user>,gid=<group>,dmask=0002,fmask=0003 into your fstab's mount option field.
3722[22:48:45] <BCMM> greycat: ntfs *can* sort of support posix permissions, but they're not enabled by default
3723[22:49:02] <Andy9> vfat / or msof fat/fat32 had no owners but that ended with NT4 or maybe NT3 i dont remember; I have always used ntfs (except flash drives) and never had problems with it, honestly
3742[22:52:39] <Andy9> greycat i wanted to automount second hdd, not the one with windoze on it (but i already ditched that idea ;) )
3743[22:53:18] <greycat> ok, if it's "just" data, then it might be acceptable that all ownerships/groups/permissions or WHATEVER the hell microsoft uses in place of those things, is demolished
3744[22:54:19] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3745[22:55:01] <Andy9> i have 3 drives on this box: 1st is small SSD with 3 primary ntfs partitions (1-win boot loader 2-win7 3-windoze users files and now 4-5-6-7-8-9 logical partitions with debian partitions)
3748[22:56:01] <Bushmills> wow, each directory an own partition :)
3749[22:56:16] <darsie> Is there an aztec code scanner in debian? zbar-tools didn't work.
3750[22:56:20] <Andy9> 2nd is old small HDD used as windoze's swap and some junk (logs etc), and 3rd is the data large 4TB with single partition shared on home network too (hence the "dump")
3760[22:59:32] <snooky> I start my system and everything is great. the console is perfect. after the login I execute a "startx". my x window has no fullscreen but only about a quarter. So it's smaller and the rest is black. anyone have an idea what that can be?
3762[22:59:51] <BazookaTooth> Andy9: must be reading old material
3763[23:00:14] <Andy9> well yeaj i could make 1 partition like android but as i said i'm planning to keep debian on it for as long as this box lives, so of coz i separate /home /var /tmp etc
3764[23:01:09] <BazookaTooth> you don't even have to use swap partitions these days. just a root / with a swap file o_O
3765[23:01:30] <Andy9> anyways its my habit to always keep "home" and data away from OS; i wasted enuf time on reinstalling windozes in the past until i learned how to be prepared and ready to restore just OS in 5min lol
3766[23:01:33] <Bushmills> /tmp has for some time be just a RAM disk
3769[23:02:59] <Bushmills> convention is to put only smallish stuff into /tmp, and larger temp files into /var/tmp
3770[23:03:12] <Andy9> so /tmp and /swap are unneeded now?
3771[23:03:33] <indomitable> Bushmills, you're a cheap, drinkable whisky, what do you know
3772[23:03:37] <greycat> separate /tmp has never been important
3773[23:03:52] <indomitable> greycat, well, it is if you're running an arm system...
3774[23:03:55] <Andy9> and now you're telling me that?! :P
3775[23:03:57] <indomitable> (with an sd card)
3776[23:04:04] <indomitable> Andy9, swap is needed
3777[23:04:06] <indomitable> do not fuck with swap
3778[23:04:10] <indomitable> swap is the life blood of linux
3779[23:04:34] <greycat> the most likely cases where you'd want a separate partition on a home/desktop system are /home (because user data is portable across systems/installations), and /boot (because under some paranoid setups you may do encryption on everything else, but /boot has to be outside that)
3780[23:05:09] <Andy9> indomitable i thought so too; windoze supposedly dont need its "swap" either when u got gazillions of RAM but i have seen it halt on boot when there was no swap
3781[23:05:22] <indomitable> Andy9, just... don't mess with swap
3782[23:05:28] <indomitable> it's like pushing a bear
3783[23:05:29] <Andy9> i won't ;)
3784[23:05:31] <indomitable> it might be fine
3785[23:05:38] <indomitable> if it's not it's gonna be bad
3786[23:05:44] <Bushmills> systems with many concurrent users benefit from seperate homes (multiple homes for groups of users) on different disks
3787[23:05:56] <indomitable> no one even uses linux for "concurrent users" anymore
3788[23:05:56] <indomitable> :P
3789[23:06:04] <indomitable> they prefer wintendo + hackable AD
3790[23:06:08] <indomitable> because it has excel support
3791[23:06:25] <greycat> the days of "many concurrent users on one host" are pretty much historical footnotes now
3792[23:06:36] <indomitable> indeed
3793[23:06:39] <greycat> everyone's got their own host, or many hosts (phones, tablets, ...)
3794[23:06:42] <indomitable> unless it's windows remote desktop
3795[23:06:44] <indomitable> fml
3796[23:06:48] <Bushmills> on single to few users system, the gains of seperating /home are virtually negligable
3797[23:06:54] <greycat> well, windows has always been 20 years behind
3798[23:07:02] <Andy9> swhat are "concurrent" users? u mean simultaneously logged-on?
3801[23:07:10] <indomitable> I wish they were 20 years behind, it wouldn't be too late to fix it
3802[23:07:11] <indomitable> :P
3803[23:07:28] <Bushmills> yes. and active. reading and writing to their resp. homes
3804[23:08:06] <greycat> I suspect Andy9 is not old enough to remember this.
3805[23:08:25] <greycat> MOST of this channel has probably never seen a setup like this.
3806[23:08:29] <Andy9> don't worry, msoft will kill itself sooner than you think; no one who used windows before 10 wants that shit anymore, you will see flood of new debian users and other distros once msoft will kill win7 support for good
3807[23:08:34] <indomitable> Bushmills, I'm going to pour you in a glass and put ice cubes in you
3808[23:08:35] <indomitable> >:(
3809[23:08:59] <indomitable> Andy9, no
3810[23:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1556
3811[23:09:02] <indomitable> but nice drea
3812[23:09:03] <indomitable> m
3813[23:09:03] <indomitable> lol
3814[23:10:05] <Andy9> indomitable look at me, 20yrs of using windows (and i do know it well) down the drain :) some of my friends switched to linux long before me
3831[23:15:10] <indomitable> Bushmills, you're cheap whisky, what do you know
3832[23:17:14] <Andy9> there is great utility for windows called SnapShot. I use it for ages, probably since around 2000. It copies partition exactly bit for bit and save it as image file. When I had WinXP box i often let scriptkiddies hack it, watch them setting up nest being gay-happy lol then i just restored partition with Snapshot to the state it was an hr ago and watch them meticulusly redoing what was undone lol
3833[23:17:34] <greycat> dd
3834[23:17:38] <Bushmills> !dd
3835[23:17:38] <dpkg> it has been said that dd is an abbreviation for Debian Developer, or a utility for the low-level copying and conversion of raw data: man dd, dd if=/foo/vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0 to produce a bootable floppy, dd if=/dev/hdc of=image.iso to make an image of a CD/DVD. See also <win32 dd>, <ddrescue>, <gddrescue>. <pv>
3841[23:20:14] <dpkg> dd_rescue (packaged for Debian as ddrescue) is a tool to help you to save data from crashed partition. Unlike dd, dd_rescue will keep going on despite errors. It can also continue interrupted copying process and copy backwards. replaced-url
3842[23:20:37] <greycat> for whenever the simple dd won't suffice
3845[23:20:41] <dpkg> "PCs are like air conditioners, if you open Windows(R) they don't work." Support for Microsoft Windows operating systems is available in ##windows on irc.freenode.net.
3846[23:20:48] <Andy9> lol
3847[23:21:08] <Andy9> I knew something like that *must* be set up here ;)
3848[23:21:40] *** Quits: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3856[23:25:16] <Andy9> i like my machines slim lean debloated etc ;) (i know you laugh seeing it coming from windoze guy ain'tya)
3857[23:26:18] <Andy9> sudo dpkg -[program name] or else?
3858[23:26:21] <Bushmills> that statement somehow doesn't quite match your use of synaptic
3859[23:27:09] <greycat> Andy9: dpkg --remove pkgname, or dpkg --purge pkgname. Read "man dpkg" to see the difference.
3860[23:27:10] <Bushmills> apt may be the tool of choice of many
3861[23:27:15] <Bushmills> just guessing
3862[23:27:20] <Bushmills> !apt
3863[23:27:20] <dpkg> Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) is a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives. APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude and, from Debian 8 "Jessie" onwards, apt. See also <aptitude> <apt-get>, <apt-cache>, <apt myths>.
3864[23:27:32] <Andy9> ok
3865[23:28:13] <Bushmills> though aptitude has also an interactive mode, and can offer solutions how to deal with conflicts
3866[23:28:40] <humpled> i browsed aptitude ncurses quite a bit when i was not used to debian
3899[23:40:59] <Grefoley> Hi i plan to make a personnal mailserver, do you recommend me to do it with docker or directly on my server. I am not sure about the architecture i want to build
3900[23:41:23] <starsnet> where i can find MIPS repo's on Jessy (debian 8) ?
3932[23:46:37] <greycat> Even assuming that you somehow lost half the line while pasting here, if your sources.list is just ONE line instead of two, it means you didn't read the factoid.
3933[23:46:38] *** Guest98277 is now known as nickware_
3939[23:47:12] <dvs> starsnet, there is no more jessie-updates
3940[23:47:38] <greycat> the random security lines ("let's just throw every combination of security and updates together and see what works") is not amusing
3941[23:47:47] <starsnet> dvs: i know. but where i can find old binaries ?
3942[23:47:51] <greycat> !jessie sources.list
3943[23:47:51] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has two lines: "deb replaced-url
3944[23:48:06] <greycat> THERE. You find them THERE. That is where they ARE.
3949[23:48:41] *** Quits: prophile (~prophile@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
3950[23:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1549
3951[23:49:59] <Andy9> i saw some kind of themes in xfce somewhere, can't find it now (want to change some of its looks), its not under display nor preferred nor windows manager tweaks
3970[23:54:14] <greycat> if your architecture is supported in jessie, and is on the jessie mirrors, then it should work.
3971[23:54:27] <starsnet> if..
3972[23:54:36] <greycat> Well, you would know better than we.
3973[23:54:41] <Andy9> !jessie
3974[23:54:41] <dpkg> Jessie is the codename for the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25. Security support ended 2018-05-17, repos removed from mirrors around 2019-03-24, except for <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See replaced-url
3975[23:55:13] <greycat> !jessie-lts
3976[23:55:14] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See replaced-url
3979[23:55:43] <Andy9> whats the codename of 10.0 ?
3980[23:55:46] <greycat> buster
3981[23:55:51] <Andy9> ah right thx
3982[23:56:02] <Andy9> !buster-lts
3983[23:56:02] <dpkg> buster-lts is <reply>It is expected that extended security support for Debian 10 "Buster" will be offered by the <LTS> project after the Debian Security Team ceases supporting stretch in mid 2022. See replaced-url
3984[23:56:39] <Andy9> okie dokie, i wouldnt want distro that ends next year lol
3985[23:56:56] <greycat> buster was just released about 6 weeks ago
3986[23:56:58] <starsnet> earlier packages for version 8 were available.
3987[23:57:02] <Bushmills> one can always upgrade to next stable
3988[23:57:30] <Andy9> oh rly - its spankin fresh then :) i jumped on it at very right moment ha ha
3989[23:57:46] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3990[23:57:55] <starsnet> does anyone speak russian?)
3991[23:57:59] <greycat> !ru
3992[23:58:00] <dpkg> Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)