this is #debianan IRC-Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0[00:00:04] <CaptainDusty> jadax: What is your explicit requirement of Ubuntu?
1[00:00:05] <jadax> could I run Ubuntu on Debian as a container somehow?
2[00:00:06] <rant> coruja: you know what filename it'd read as a config these days? I tried /etc/X11/Xorg.conf and /etc/X11/xorg.conf and doesn't seem to be reading it
3[00:00:17] <CaptainDusty> I've not really run into any particulars that could not be achieved with Debian, tbh.
4[00:00:17] <jadax> well, I work with few other people on that project
5[00:00:28] <jadax> and Ubuntu is the blessed OS for all of the configuration stuff
6[00:00:35] * alkisg even boots a windows installation both in bare metal and as VM; and it's also possible to boot a VM in bare metal, as long as it's in raw disk mode
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8[00:01:43] <coruja> rant, xorg.conf - and have you read what i wrote above? ;)
9[00:01:44] <CaptainDusty> jadax: If your development lifecycle is dependent on an OS purely because it's been configured that way - it's a bit of another problem. But there's also a point in which going against the grain is not logical.
16[00:02:30] <jadax> I don't want to hack it all together
17[00:02:32] <rant> coruja: yes, I dont want to do that. I already ran X -configure and it generated an intel based config
18[00:02:38] <jadax> it's easier to just stick to the same thing
19[00:02:50] <CaptainDusty> jadax: My point exactly. ;)
20[00:02:53] <rant> I hate my config files unnecessarily split into pieces its annoying
21[00:02:54] <coruja> rant, ok
22[00:02:57] <CaptainDusty> jadax: Been there, too. >.< Fun times.
23[00:03:48] <CaptainDusty> jadax: I guess I'd still stick with a VM. Should it become inconvenient; you could always dual boot (which you can also run as a VM, as per alkisg)
24[00:04:07] <CaptainDusty> Depending on the VM configuration; you shouldn't really have any issues.
25[00:05:06] <rant> \o/ now its using the intel driver.. and doesn't seem to be spewing errors anymore.. idk why anyone would configure it that way to not use DDX in the first place
26[00:05:42] <jadax> CaptainDusty if I do bridge networking then my VM should get IP address straight from router's DHCP and my host will have another DHCP obtained IP address, is that right?
27[00:06:37] <CaptainDusty> jadax: Until recently; I had dedicated network interfaces for my VM's. But, yeah; depending on how you configure the bridge, and the interface you're bridging - that won't be an issue.
30[00:07:30] <CaptainDusty> jadax: Dedicated interfaces? It was overkill - but I picked up some pretty good intel interfaces for next to nothing.
31[00:07:36] <CaptainDusty> It worked well for a virtual router, however.
32[00:08:06] <rant> I do know one thing.. thats the first time I really used this machine in a virtual console and that damn terminal bell is ANNOYING AF idk if you can still run a script like for vc in `seq 1 6`; do setterm -blength 0 > "/dev/tty$vc"; done in a boot script or not :P
33[00:08:11] <CaptainDusty> Finding a compatible configuration of hardware, and then virt configuration /software to enable true hardware passthrough was... tedious.
34[00:09:12] <rant> it used to work years ago pre-systemd linux 2.6 era
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38[00:11:40] <rant> I'd imagine this intel driver has to work better than the modesetting driver.. idk wth they'd disable it by default, I haven't heard of any issues with it..
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72[00:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1539
73[00:29:31] <coruja> ,i devscripts
74[00:29:32] <judd> Package devscripts (devel, optional) in buster/amd64: scripts to make the life of a Debian Package maintainer easier. Version: 2.19.5; Size: 1021.0k; Installed: 2488k; RFH: #800413
89[00:42:07] <Dark> Hi can someone help me out with this issue error while loading shared libraries: libQt5OpenGL.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
170[01:31:06] <jmcnaught> HelloShitty: I can just add a USB host device to a VM in virt-manager. It results in XML like this in the VM domain: replaced-url
176[01:32:48] <jmcnaught> I also have a controller for USB: <controller type='usb' index='0' model='qemu-xhci' ports='15'> <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x02' slot='0x00' function='0x0'/> </controller>
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250[02:18:51] <de-facto> i dont want interactive script, i want to script it myself
251[02:19:14] <maxrazer> Ok, I almost figured it out. If I login to i3 or anything use lightdm then hexchat won't freeze on connect and dunst messages work. So lightdm is starting something or it installed something. What could it be?
252[02:19:27] <whislock> de-facto: Try reading the manual page that I referred to.
254[02:20:08] <de-facto> its the wrong tool i want useradd not adduser
255[02:20:10] <maxrazer> If I uninstall lightdm then I have problems with hexchat freezing and also dunst messages don't work. What could lightdm be doing?
256[02:20:34] <maxrazer> If I login just using startx and i3 in my .xinitrc is when I have problems. Lightdm no problems.
257[02:21:01] <SerajewelKS> is there a quick way to report any differences between metadata in two ext4 directory trees? including which files are hard linked, acls, xattrs, etc.
258[02:21:27] <SerajewelKS> basically everything except inode numbers (except insofar as they tell what's hard linked) and the contents of the files themselves
259[02:21:30] <themill> de-facto: there is nothing wrong with adduser.
267[02:23:12] <whislock> --system changes a lot of behavior. In the future, don't assume that someone is wrong just because they're not using the command you asked about initially.
268[02:23:19] <whislock> They may be giving you a MUCH better way to do what you want to do.
284[02:33:13] <de-facto> hmm indeed useradd does it wrong: "The default is to use the smallest ID value greater than or equal to UID_MIN and greater than every other user." <-- this is a lie from its manpage
489[05:11:58] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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668[07:46:04] <alkisg> When running "reboot" in buster, I see "Resuming from hibernation"; it's displayed by initramfs-tools' local-premount/resume; but I think it's confusing to have it shown when hibernation isn't used... isn't it?
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690[08:01:17] <Tordek> hi; I have 2 screens but whenever I boot xorg puts them in the wrong location: the one physically on the right behaves as if it was on the left; do I need to change xorg.conf or is there a tool I could use to make the screens be where they should?
691[08:01:30] <Tordek> I'm using an AMD card if that's relevant
693[08:02:27] <alkisg> Desktop environments have tools to rearrange; it's usually a bit harder to apply those changes to the login screen; so if you're using xorg, yeah a xorg.conf with leftof/rightof is probably the best way
694[08:02:59] <Tordek> yeah, I can rearrange with systemsettings but it doesn't apply on next boot
722[08:36:34] <pragomer> hi. how can I add a script folder (e.g. /home/user/scripts) to my "path" (?) so that I can execute these script from everywhere in the terminal?
723[08:37:32] <alkisg> pragomer: mkdir ~/bin, then relogging for it to be automatically inserted to PATH
724[08:37:39] <alkisg> *re-login
725[08:37:48] <alkisg> (or open another shell etc)
864[09:33:42] *** Parts: COOurb (COOurb@replaced-ip) ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
995[10:34:40] <aZz7eCh> hi guys. LO6.3 is out ... I installed 6.2.* in addition to the default 5.* that comes with debian, by downloading the 6.2.* deb package and dkpg'ing it ... all installed fine when I did that. As I now want to do the same with 6.3, i'm a little concerned i will have conflicting system integration if I dont first get rid of the 6.2 deb files I installed the other day ... I aksed in #libreoffice but they told me to follow thte wiki to uninstall it
996[10:34:40] <aZz7eCh> ... of course - i'm NOT goign to follow the LO wiki to uninstall it as it will remove the OS default LO install, along with my Gnome and every other default application ... i ONLY want to uninstall all the 6.2.* deb files from week or two ago, so I can repeat the process with the new deb pacakage for 6.3 ...
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1067[11:03:52] <CleymSpaze> i had only 1 single problem. i needed to switch to a text console during boot and install linux-firmware-nonfree so that X could be loaded
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1112[11:15:54] <BCMM> i think this might actually be a bug, since gpus from the major vendors tend to work well enough to show a UI, just no acceleration, power management, etc.
1169[11:51:10] <brutser> for some unknown reason when i put autologin with lightdm on a mate desktop, it takes ages for the desktop to load, sometimes i have to move my mouse for a minute to finally get to the desktop < it's debian 10 with lightdm/mate
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1177[11:54:37] <BCMM> centrix: hang on, was it wayland or x that couldn't load?
1178[11:54:40] <brutser> alkisg: i only got 2 laptops here and they are the same, i install debian 10 minimal, just basics mate-core etc and lightdm, then i enter my user name in lightdm.conf and reboot
1180[11:55:19] <alkisg> brutser: I mean, the long delay happens ALL the times when you try it with autologin, and NOT at all when you try with manual login?
1181[11:55:20] <centrix> BCMM, ??
1182[11:55:40] <BCMM> centrix: ah, sorry. meant to say CleymSpaze (tab completion failure)
1183[11:55:41] <brutser> alkisg: yes, it's always with autologin
1188[11:56:07] <BCMM> CleymSpaze: if this is Gnome, iirc the wayland compositor has a hard requirement for accelerated opengl, but i thought it was supposed to automatically fall back to Xorg if that doesn't work
1189[11:56:43] <alkisg> brutser: when it delays, is your background loaded already?
1191[11:56:52] <brutser> but i should not say always, i had one install where it for some reason auto-logged-in normally to desktop, but i am testing things, so a many new installs happened after, after that i only managed to get that delayed
1192[11:57:21] <brutser> alkisg: no, it's a black/gray-ish (not fully black, it's lit somewhat)
1195[11:58:44] <alkisg> I would edit /usr/share/xsessions/mate.desktop, change Exec=mate-session with Exec=xterm, then login, get an xterm at top left, then run mate-session from that xterm to see when exactly it delays wrt the stdout shown in the xterm
1196[11:59:09] <alkisg> Maybe it's related to the keyring and entropy... maybe not...
1197[11:59:16] <person3473847> hey all -- are snaps safe to use? what precautions should I take before installing one?
1229[12:11:24] <CleymSpaze> BCMM: good that you told me. i checked and believe xorg was loaded as a failback and that failed due to the missing firmware. is that possible?
1243[12:15:04] *** Quits: person3473847 (aa009cd4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1244[12:15:11] <brutser> to be 100% clear, i only added [Seat:*] autologin-user=bob and auto-user-timeout=0
1245[12:15:19] <brutser> nothing else
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1247[12:16:20] <brutser> alkisg: should i change back >> change Exec=mate-session with Exec=xterm << ?
1248[12:16:39] <alkisg> brutser: yes, put it back as it was, although it's strange that it didn't work,
1249[12:16:53] <alkisg> brutser: if you have a password protected keyring, it can't be automatically unlocked by PAM if you autologin. So the delay might be a bug related to that.
1273[12:22:55] <jadax> but then on 1st or second screen I'm getting stuck as installer complains about lack of some driver...
1274[12:23:18] <jadax> I don't want to discuss any win 10 related topics, just curious if I would ever want anything other than dd to push that win10.iso image to USB stick
1275[12:23:47] <alkisg> "yes dd won't work with win10.iso"; although this isn't at all debian related :)
1276[12:24:58] <jadax> unetbootin then?
1277[12:25:01] <brutser> alkisg: i have no seahorse installed and never set any keyring password.. sorry for my lack of skill, but i only added bob to the lightdm.conf, nothing more
1297[12:38:11] <alkisg> brutser: try to rename the ~/.local/share/keyrings directory to something else, then restart and see if it logs in when it doesn't have a keyring
1298[12:38:20] <alkisg> *logs in quickly
1299[12:38:27] <alkisg> Remember to put it back after the test
1382[13:27:10] <jim> what could be happening (since python2 -and- python3 are preinstalled, is that the maintainers are being asked to port their code over
1386[13:29:00] *** Quits: hays (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1387[13:29:23] <mcmx> well, they effectively aren't being asked. their inaction is being accomodated
1388[13:29:23] <BCMM> mcmx: /usr/bin/python is symlinked to python2 for backwards-compatibility. it will probably stay that way until python2 is actually removed from debian.
1389[13:29:45] <mcmx> but I'm looking for a a link, for the wikipedia article
1390[13:30:06] <mcmx> I guess I will keep looking, thanks
1391[13:30:10] <BCMM> (stuff that requires python3 usually specifically has python3 in the #!, stuff that requires python2 often just says "python")
1394[13:31:16] <kryl> hi, I'm looking for a squid alternative? I don't need caching feature but I'm interrested with acl / many user auth (sql or whatever) / logs
1395[13:31:29] <jim> BCMM, so is my statement accurate, some maints still have python2 code in their maint scripts?
1396[13:32:00] <BCMM> jim: i don't know about actual debian packages/scripts; my understanding was that it was for user scripts with defective #!s
1398[13:34:00] <BCMM> jim: honestly not entirely sure what a maint script is
1399[13:34:16] <jim> so then the question becomes... is python2 still an acceptable language/interpreter for those packages that use python to set up the package?
1400[13:35:18] <jim> BCMM, ok, I mean the preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm scripts
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1406[13:37:55] <jim> (which means that before any part of a package is installed (either unpack or configure phase), the predepends must first be installed
1428[13:50:49] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1429[13:51:21] <centrix> BCMM, I am aware of it. I am just extending an already set solution that still depends on NTLM ... No time, space or will to push Kerberos ....
1431[13:52:14] <BCMM> centrix: well, that bug is the explanation for its removal from debian, anyway. you could probably still build it yourself from the old Debian source package, though
1432[13:53:09] <centrix> BCMM, Yes. That is what I "wanted" to hear :) I respect your warnings though. Thank you.
1444[14:00:40] <jadax> and I can boot off that stick and installation starts, but then during 'load installer components from CD' it fails saying 'there was a problem reading data from the CD-ROM...'
1445[14:02:44] <diogenes_> Hello guys, how do i remove all lines that start with # and leave only the lines without #?
1477[14:22:56] <rizoongarbage> jadax: no, avoid swap it's not 1990
1478[14:23:04] <bad_cat> wat
1479[14:23:11] <RoyK> jadax: you should always have swap
1480[14:23:19] <bad_cat> jadax: if you want to use hibernation, enough to contain your runtime memory
1481[14:23:28] *** Quits: vadPerevad (~VadPereva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1482[14:23:43] <jadax> I don't use hibernation
1483[14:24:02] <RoyK> rizoongarbage: you're wrong - linux uses swap all the time to throw things not in use out in the swap to allow for memory to be used actively for useful things like caching/buffering
1516[14:29:14] <jadax> I don't need separate mounts for /home etc.
1517[14:29:17] <jadax> I will keep everything in /
1518[14:29:19] <RoyK> ok
1519[14:29:53] <RoyK> but one PV, that is, the partition, then one VG on that PV, and then smaller LVs for the rest, like the root and swap and whatever you want to isolate
1520[14:30:16] <jadax> what's PV and VG?
1521[14:30:16] <RoyK> putting home on a separate lv/fs is a good idea, btw, in case you want to reinstall
1555[14:37:26] <RoyK> I've described most of this on replaced-url
1556[14:37:33] <RoyK> the manual way, though
1557[14:37:48] <RoyK> but hell - just start off with 4GB swap and 50GB root and take it from there
1558[14:38:42] <jadax> is it good idea to put swap on SSD?
1559[14:38:57] <RoyK> greycat: I know this nice, little cafe in Reykjavík called Grái kötturinn, meaning "[the] grey cat" :)
1560[14:39:00] <RoyK> it is
1561[14:39:51] <RoyK> jadax: you can adjust how much linux is using swap later, by chainging vm.swappiness (default 60) to something lower if you see it's swapping more than anticipated
1562[14:40:05] <RoyK> but generally, yes, it's a very good idea to put swap on ssd
1563[14:40:18] <RoyK> with 32 gigs of RAM, it probably won't swap much anyway
1564[14:40:43] <RoyK> so you could perhaps start off with even 1GB swap
1565[14:40:55] <RoyK> but you want *some* swap - linux is designed for it
1566[14:41:49] <rizoongarbage> why would you want to reduce the life of your ssd though
1570[14:43:19] <RoyK> rizoongarbage: today's SSDs can handle writes quite well. Logging and caching will probably be *far* worse for the SSD than swapping
1578[14:47:43] <humpled> is there any point to lvm for ordinary users? just seems like an extra layer of complexity
1579[14:47:44] <greycat> The ideal is to have enough RAM to run all your applications (web browsers are *huge* RAM hogs). The unused RAM gets used to cache file system contents. Adding a small amount of swap lets idle daemons get swapped out, which frees up some more RAM for file caching.
1580[14:48:04] <RoyK> rant: that depends on the load - on some fileservers, I've seen swap climbing skyhigh, just because of the pressure of buffering and perhaps samba processes not being in used being swapped out
1581[14:48:31] <RoyK> humpled: the performance is the same, but it adds flexibility
1589[14:50:18] <RoyK> humpled: I know, but lvm is *far* more flexible. Why do you think redhat/centos has been using it by default for years? for fun?
1590[14:50:41] <RoyK> humpled: I use it for all my stuff, except perhaps the pi computers
1591[14:50:41] <colo-work> out of spite!
1592[14:50:43] <colo-work> (I kid)
1593[14:50:45] <jadax> my freshly installed debian doesn't boot; it hangs at 'sev command 0x4 timed out, disabling PSP; SEV: failed to get status. Error 0x0'
1597[14:50:54] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1598[14:51:00] <humpled> they add and take away drives on servers i guess
1599[14:51:14] <davis> hello, I have a new pc. It has two video ports on back. One is for nvidia and the other is for intel. I have configured bios to use primary as pci express, the nvidia, I have installed the nvidia drivers. glxinfo shows that in X windows, the nvidia drivers are enabled. However, I can not get the built in video to work simulatenously. Monitor settings app only shows one monitor. Can I have two monitors
1600[14:51:20] <davis> working on this desktop?
1601[14:51:21] <RoyK> humpled: just learn it and you won't go back
1633[15:03:50] <rant> I mean making sure kernel drivers are loaded, examining the pci bus, writing an xorg config file, working in the console with X turned off.. etc
1635[15:04:56] <rant> xrandr might work for manipulating outputs of devices already configured, but as far as I know it can't reconfigure the X server or kernel
1638[15:06:49] <davis> i'm looking at two pages on web. one is a stackoverflow post and one is a blog. Both are out of date but they mention using the Nividia X server SEttings app, the X server display configuratin tab. On that tab there is a button for Detect Displays but it always shows just the one display.
1639[15:07:07] <rant> davis: I'd start by going to tty1 and stopping whatever display manager you may be using and running X -configure as root to get yourself a config file to work with
1640[15:07:34] <davis> i wonder if the bios settings for primary display "pcie express" is really disable chipset video.
1641[15:07:36] <rant> davis: you are not trying to use two displays you are trying to use TWO DIFFERENT CARDS by TWO DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS
1642[15:08:08] <rant> its a whole different ballgame when you are trying to use two cards with totally different drivers
1643[15:08:22] <rant> you can't use nvidia anything to make an intel graphics card work
1644[15:08:29] <davis> indeed. i'm currently using the nivida card. I'm trying to get x to recognize the chipset video card.
1645[15:08:45] <rant> to do that it has to be told its there
1662[15:13:24] <rant> the primary card should have absolutely nothing to do with any of this
1663[15:13:39] <davis> btw, greycat, i recognize3 your nick. you have helped me a million times. I am happy to see you are still helping out folks. tip of the hat to you.
1664[15:13:51] <rant> its whether or not the onboard video is enabled, whats primary makes absolutely no difference
1665[15:14:05] <davis> rant, so you don't think that setting is the reason lspci is not showing the chipset video?
1666[15:14:25] <davis> i would imagine for two displays, lscpi should show two video cards.
1667[15:14:35] <rant> not unless you dont actually have two video cards.. and you are actually using something like nvidia optimus
1668[15:14:38] <greycat> If you disabled it in the BIOS and it's not showing up in lspci at all, then Linux won't be able to use it.
1669[15:15:50] <rant> the difference between two video cards and hybrid video is, hybrid video only has one set of outputs that can be changed/remapped to different hardware.. rather than outputs hard wired to specific devices
1670[15:16:11] <davis> greycat: agreed. the bios setting has a config titled "primary vga" and it has two settings, chipset or pci express. its currently set for pci express. but it appears to disable the builtin
1671[15:16:53] <rant> which if you are only changing the primary output device, and not disabling anything, then you probably dont have anything to disable.. you only have one video device for all practical purposes.. its a hybrid
1673[15:17:29] <greycat> or it *is* in lspci's output but he didn't see it, either because he didn't read all the lines, or because he grepped incorrectly
1679[15:18:55] <rant> davis: first you need to figure out if you are dealing with hybrid graphics or not.. if its nvidia its called optimus, and it'd be mentioned somewhere.. probably a sticker on the machine among other places
1680[15:18:57] <davis> i asked my boss for a new pc. He gave me some options and I simply purchased a bundle from new egg.
1681[15:20:00] <davis> im lookint at the box. it says intel b365 chipset
1691[15:24:01] <davis> i noticed it has two video ports on the motherboard, one dvi and one hdmi. I have both connected and a third monitor connected to dvi on nividia card.
1732[15:45:32] *** Joins: davis (~davis@replaced-ip)
1733[15:45:39] <davis> hello
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1735[15:45:48] <abrotman> new? 8?
1736[15:46:51] <davis> ok, so I dis some tests. When the bios setting is configured for chipset as primary display, lspci shows the intel and nvidia on the buss. When the biso setting is pci express, lspci only shows nvidia.
1739[15:47:40] <davis> currently I am in primary display is chipset, so lscpi shows two video cards, but now X server fails. I'm currently using the virtual console.
1740[15:48:31] <davis> in /etc/X11 there is not a xorg.conf file or Xerver.conf
1775[15:57:06] <davis> nvidia-detect said it was compatible with nvidia-driver, when I installed that driver via apt-get it enabled x windows to work.
1776[15:57:24] <alkisg> davis: and the output of "kernel drivers" (not in use) for intel? does it mention something like i915 etc?
1777[15:57:25] <davis> in current bios setting with both cards on bus, x windows does not work.
1778[15:57:40] <alkisg> You need to see 2 lines of "kernel driver in use" for it to work
1779[15:58:13] <BCMM> davis: if you have an internet connection on the machine in question, you can use a pastebin even if you can't copy/paste
1780[15:58:15] <BCMM> !pastebinit
1781[15:58:16] <dpkg> A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
1782[15:58:17] <davis> agreed. I wonder if I should apt-get install something for the intel driver
1783[15:58:43] <davis> i did not know I c ould use a console based pastebin
1784[15:59:06] <alkisg> (04:50:00 PM) alkisg: davis: what's the output of: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 3 VGA | nc termbin.com 9999 ==> this was console pastebin :)
1786[15:59:54] <davis> my problem is I don't have copy and paste in console. so if I could pastebin the output, I would have to type all the text flipping between virt terms
1787[16:00:07] <rant> davis: as root: (dmidecode;lspci -nn;dmesg)|nc termbin.com 9999
1788[16:00:46] <BCMM> davis: you don't have to type all the output!
1789[16:00:55] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1790[16:01:08] <BCMM> davis: you've been given two solutions where you can just pipe the output of a command to a website automatically
1804[16:03:59] <alkisg> It's possible that you just need a newer kernel...
1805[16:04:01] <davis> if i configure bios to have primary video to be chipset, then lspci shows only nvidia and xwindows works.
1806[16:04:26] <alkisg> In both times you said "only nvidia"
1807[16:04:41] <davis> i was hoping with three phyical video connections on the computer, two on botherboard and one on nvidia, i could get a dual monitor setup working
1808[16:04:58] <alkisg> You can get dual monitor with 1 nic
1867[16:16:46] <rant> [ 0.000000] Linux version 4.19.0-5-amd64 (debian-kernel@replaced-ip) (gcc version 8.3.0 (Debian 8.3.0-6)) #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u1 (2019-07-19)
1868[16:16:55] <rant> we have your dmesg output, we don't need your uname :D
1869[16:17:43] <rant> idk about anyone else, but knowing there are few other debian options, I would perhaps recommend trying the experimental kernel for argments sake
1870[16:17:46] *** Quits: superduperuser (~superdupe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1871[16:18:07] <rant> thats a linux 5.0 which should be happy to support your newer hardware I'd imagine
1872[16:18:14] <greycat> might be safer to build your own .deb from kernel.org sources (5.2.x) than to use an experimental 5.0.x package
1873[16:18:51] <rant> greycat: I see two problems with that.. 1) after what you've seen you think this user can do that? and 2) have you tried building 5.x? It requires a LOT of time and space
1874[16:19:18] <rant> back in the day with 2.6 and kernel-package or such, yeah, I'd have also recommended that :D
1875[16:19:25] <davis> hmm. well on upside, I switched minotors/cables and now I have two monitors mirrored on the dvi and hdmi connector on motherboard working.
1876[16:19:44] <greycat> No, I haven't built a kernel since 2.6.
1878[16:20:13] <rant> me either except for trying 5.x when it first build using a deb target.. and I couldnt free up enough space on my 120GB ssd to complete the operation..
1879[16:20:36] <rant> I just gave up after freeing well over 20GB and it still failing due to out of disk space
1880[16:20:46] <davis> so the new kernel would support xvideo drivers for the motherboard chipset?
1881[16:21:04] <davis> as opposed to a console output which is working now?
1882[16:21:05] <greycat> maybe ubuntu has a 5.x kernel that's safer than experimental?
1883[16:21:22] <rant> davis: the xvideo and motherboard chipset are both irrelevant here.. the graphics on on the CPU itself
1884[16:21:26] <karlpinc> davis: In the past I've solved video issues with a newer kernel.
1885[16:21:50] <rant> and the CPU is newer than the kernel you're running by far..
1886[16:22:03] <rant> so it'd be nothing short of a miracle if it could somehow make that work
1890[16:22:22] <alkisg> I've successfully booted debian with ubuntu kernels and the opposite; ubuntu has a "mainline ppa" that has kernel 5.0 that does support this card, as show in modules.alias,
1891[16:22:23] <davis> im wondering if xlog output is relevant
1892[16:22:38] <rant> I can already imagine what xorg log says
1893[16:22:39] <alkisg> but I don't think the user is interested in multiseat; he just wants 2 monitors; so using jus nvidia should be fine
1901[16:24:23] <davis> rant, perhaps this is not possible but I wanted a dual display setting. one monitor via nvidia and one from either of the two connectors on the motherboard
1902[16:24:55] <davis> right now, i have two monitors working but they are connected via the two ports on the motherboard. one is dvi and the other is hdmi.
1903[16:25:05] <karlpinc> davis: And we can assume that you want both monitors to be part of the same login session, right?
1905[16:25:22] <davis> the third monitor connected via nvidia card is not working.
1906[16:25:26] <davis> karlpinc: yes
1907[16:25:35] <rant> the dual outputs are on the motherboard for the intel, not the nvidia pcie
1908[16:26:06] <davis> if I change the bios setting, then only the nividia connected monitor work, but it also works with x windows.
1909[16:26:16] <uio> Hi, I have an external monitor set 'above' my laptop. Both are on. Usually they have different wallpapers. I changed the laptop one recently and after logging out and back in, they both appear to have disappeared. Also, I can't right-click the desktop for a menu like I could before. What is wrong? Thanks.
1913[16:26:50] <alkisg> Ah, davis, you mean you got dual output but only text mode?
1914[16:28:02] <davis> alkisg: yes, with bios setting primary video, chipset, then i have a console mode output on the two monitors connected via motherboard in mirrored mode, no xwindows and the third monitor connected to nividia card is not working.
1916[16:28:20] <rant> alkisg: right, thats what is happening fb0: EFI VGA frame buffer device
1917[16:28:55] <rant> I can't gather from the info I have what the nvidia card has.. some of them of that model have only one output, some have 4 outputs
1918[16:28:57] <alkisg> OK sounds like he needs a newer kernel in any case then
1919[16:29:19] <alkisg> let's ask him; davis, does nvidia have 2 outputs, e.g. dvi and hdmi?
1920[16:29:24] <rant> my guess is the nvidia card has multiple outputs and can support many displays easily, but they probably lack proper cables/adapters for them
1955[16:36:22] <han_> do anyone know how can i speed up the booting debian?
1956[16:36:28] <greycat> That's why one person suggested the 5.0 kernel in *experimental* which is pretty old and pretty unsafe, and another person mentioned building your own, or trying for one from Ubuntu.
1957[16:36:29] <rant> davis: you only have two options, install the 5.0 kernel from experimental or build your own kernel
1958[16:36:44] <Bushmills> han_: a faster computer may do
1959[16:37:01] <davis> rant: how would i try the experimental path?
1960[16:37:10] <greycat> han_: remove stuff you don't need
1961[16:37:24] <uio> I kind found a solution, but not an explanation: Ubuntu had some help on the issue: replaced-url
1962[16:37:24] <Bushmills> boot from flash/SSD
1963[16:37:27] <davis> is that simply adding experimental in place of stable as an additional source?
1964[16:37:28] <greycat> han_: or, is there a specific *problem* you are having, that we could help you with?
1965[16:37:31] <rant> davis: you could just grab it from the mirror and install it just for testing places
1968[16:37:59] *** Quits: Andocromn (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1969[16:38:01] <greycat> !experimental
1970[16:38:01] <dpkg> experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section 4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference. replaced-url
2008[16:44:19] <rant> thats even more surprising to me.. cause last I checked all we had beyond 4.19 was a 5.0.0 in experimental.. to now have 5.2 in sid is quite a surprise
2009[16:44:31] <rant> I may even consider installing that on my machine :D
2010[16:45:02] <uio> Should I file a bug report?
2011[16:45:18] <greycat> experimental doesn't mean "new". it means "here's a thing that will probably break, please tell me how it breaks exactly".
2014[16:45:57] <greycat> The 5.0 kernel was uploaded to experimental for some specific reason, months and months ago.
2015[16:46:38] <greycat> There hasn't been a need to test a suspected-broken kernel since then, so there isn't a newer one in experimental, and that's normal.
2028[16:48:53] <greycat> as one would expect a month after a stable release
2029[16:49:05] *** Quits: ZombyWoof (~ZombyWoof@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2030[16:50:19] <rant> yeah.. I installed guixsd in a VM last night... it obliterates a lot of these debian type issues, but at the same time makes me love them all the more.. this approach to development is rather... crazy..
2031[16:50:53] <greycat> Debian doesn't even attempt to herd the cats, most of the time.
2032[16:51:30] *** Quits: hays_ (a2faf302@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2033[16:52:01] <rant> the guix approach seems to be there isn't anything a bag of parenthesis and a web of symlinks can't fix..
2034[16:53:38] <tarzeau> alkisg: putting /usr/bin and /bin together, they could've made /Applications right away ;)
2035[16:53:44] <rant> greycat: you ever need a laugh, I watched this while installing this last night replaced-url
2073[17:14:30] <Jellyg00se> Hi, when running apt-get update, I'm given the " There is no public key available for the following key IDs" warning, where can I find the specified ID to remove it please?
2088[17:21:58] <Bushmills> by default, unless specified as options, rsync doesn't remove any directories, regardless ether empty or not. therefore uit's not refusing to, it just won't do even attempt to
2091[17:22:48] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2092[17:23:55] <greycat> One can only assume (because he didn't bother to TELL US) that he used some kind of --delete option, of which rsync has several. But we don't know which one, or whether he's trying to remove stuff on the source or dest, or why there are files remaining in the directory he wants to remove, etc.
2093[17:23:58] *** Guest83712 is now known as argusbr
2100[17:26:51] *** Quits: zeSoup (~jsc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2101[17:27:12] <greycat> !esp
2102[17:27:12] <dpkg> I don't have extra-sensory perception (mind-reading powers). If you're asked a question or to run a command and provide output, it's because information is needed to help _you_ solve your problem. If you don't cooperate, or don't clearly state your problem, we can't help, and will move on to someone else. Understand?
2106[17:28:20] <j_wrok> Well, sorry. There are a lot of things that may or may noy be involved. So I am actually using --delete and --delete-excluded, but also --execlude and --filter. It is quite a complicated rsync command, really, so it would be really, really hard to provide context.
2107[17:28:40] <j_wrok> The reason this has to be so damn complicated is that rsync does not parallelize.
2108[17:29:18] <greycat> there's an #rsync channel
2146[17:50:04] *** Joins: davis (~davis@replaced-ip)
2147[17:50:08] <davis> hello
2148[17:50:22] <Tom-_> !ask
2149[17:50:23] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2150[17:50:26] <Tom-_> :-)
2151[17:50:52] <davis> I installed the experimental 5.2 kernel, and viola I now have X windows working with the bios setting for primary video=chipset
2165[17:54:25] <greycat> The sid page on packages.debian.org has "signed" not "unsigned". I don't know exactly what that unsigned kernel is. rant apparently found it by manually looking through the pool and picking one.
2171[17:55:57] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
2172[17:56:17] <greycat> There are many linux-headers-* packages in replaced-url
2173[17:56:19] <rant> davis: if this works well for you, for the time being you may want to setup pinning with a sid source.. you need the pinning to avoid breaking your system
2174[17:56:43] <rant> I would imagine within a month or so however it'll be available via backports
2175[17:56:43] <greycat> there shouldn't be any dependency issues with an isolated kernel package (and headers?)
2176[17:56:57] <davis> it has a dependency problem.
2177[17:56:57] <rant> greycat: I was thinking more to be able to maintain updates
2196[17:58:36] <rant> davis: use this one instead replaced-url
2197[17:58:41] <greycat> He might want to go to the packages.debian.org site and download the image/headers from there, instead of manually from the pool as you did
2198[17:58:53] <rant> yeah, you could do that too :D
2199[17:58:55] <greycat> ... or, you could go fishing for him.
2200[17:59:10] * rant goes to have a look at the tracker
2205[18:00:43] <rant> I'd guesstimate by next month it'll be able to be migrated to testing and probably available for backports
2206[18:01:24] <rant> my only concern with regard to pinning sid was to be able to have a source to obtain updates to mitigate any security concerns with use of this
2207[18:01:37] <rant> the manual fetching was more of just seeing if a newer kernel would resolve the issue
2208[18:02:18] <rant> its not really a long-term solution as it could compromise the security of the system using a manually fetched kernel from its first day in debian :P
2209[18:02:45] <greycat> If it were me, I think I would *not* add a sid source, and just continue using the kernel, security bugs and all, until a buster-backport is made.
2210[18:03:00] <rant> yes, that is another option
2211[18:03:13] <rant> either way I just would like to make the point this is not a permanent solution
2214[18:04:13] <uio> Hi, I have an external monitor set 'above' my laptop. Both are on. Usually they have different wallpapers. I changed the laptop one recently and after logging out and back in, they both appear to have disappeared. Also, I can't right-click the desktop for a menu like I could before. What is wrong? Thanks.
2215[18:04:34] <rant> it was all just bad timing.. buying hardware that is less than 6mo old within weeks of a Debian release
2218[18:05:17] <geek1011> uio: what is the output of xrandr?
2219[18:05:24] <rant> uio: sounds like whatever app that draws your desktop is not running. We'd need a bit more information, the release and the DE you're using
2220[18:05:51] <uio> Sorry, yes Stretch XFCE.
2221[18:05:58] <uio> I kind found a solution, but not an explanation: Ubuntu had some help on the issue: replaced-url
2222[18:06:11] <uio> It's in settings manager ->Settings and Startup->Session tab... as 'on'
2223[18:06:15] <uio> Hi, I have an external monitor set 'above' my laptop. Both are on. Usually they have different wallpapers. I changed the laptop one recently and after logging out and back in, they both appear to have disappeared. Also, I can't right-click the desktop for a menu like I could before. What is wrong? Thanks.
2224[18:06:20] <davis> hmm. install of kernel headers, requires common, requires, kbuild. did all of that then during kernel header install it fails on nvidia.
2225[18:06:38] <uio> *couldn't, now it's 'working', but I don't think that should happen and don't get it.
2226[18:06:39] <rant> uio: usually I'd run the app from a terminal to answer that question.. it may produce some kind of error running it manually from a terminal
2228[18:07:21] <uio> rant, No error output for 'xdesktop'.
2229[18:07:28] <davis> looking at log it shows that during build of headers for nvidia it failed because of need to make config on the kernel.
2230[18:07:32] <uio> But it just didn't want to run at login.
2231[18:07:34] <rant> uio: personally I consider XFCE a bit half-baked.. and more so being that you're on stretch.. its a nice DE, and its mostly functional, but it is not without issues
2232[18:07:45] <uio> rant, What is better?
2233[18:07:56] <uio> I'm open to other DEs too, if they are light.
2234[18:08:00] <rant> uio: I consider MATE and Cinnamon to be a bit more mature and stable
2235[18:08:06] <uio> Hmm.
2236[18:08:11] <uio> But much heavier, no?
2237[18:08:17] <rant> ,de usage
2238[18:08:22] <rant> !de usage
2239[18:08:22] <dpkg> methinks de usage is The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M
2245[18:10:07] <uio> Interesting. Lighter on ram than XFCE.
2246[18:10:09] <uio> Surprised.
2247[18:10:18] <geek1011> I actually prefer XFCE
2248[18:10:25] <uio> to MATE?
2249[18:10:31] <geek1011> Certainly.
2250[18:10:35] <uio> Why?
2251[18:10:35] <rant> uio: I typically use MATE if I use a full DE, and I recently had switched to XFCE for a month or so.. and a couple issues I had that annoyed me back to MATE was due to the fact I was using various setups with my laptop, including a TV on the display port and an extra monitor on the VGA and in MATE it automatically restores the last known display AND sound output settings where XFCE I had to keep doing it
2264[18:11:50] *** Quits: sz0 (uid110435@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2265[18:11:50] <geek1011> rant: I use ARandr for that.
2266[18:12:00] <geek1011> ,i arandr
2267[18:12:01] <judd> Package arandr (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: Simple visual front end for XRandR. Version: 0.1.9-2; Size: 62.1k; Installed: 320k; Homepage: replaced-url
2268[18:12:09] <greycat> If "low RAM use" is the main goal, then consider not using any desktop environment at all. Just use a regular, traditional window manager.
2269[18:12:46] <geek1011> ^ i3 - I boot in 3s (SSD) and use 180 mb RAM on boot
2270[18:12:51] <rant> geek1011: yes but did you manage to make it so that it automatically restores the configuration on plugging in displays? Configuring the layout the way you had it, changing the audio output to HDMI..etc
2271[18:12:56] <uio> greycat, I'm too noobèsque for that!
2272[18:13:21] <geek1011> rant: the layout, yes, but doesn't pulseaudio restore the audio properly?
2273[18:13:41] <rant> I should make some updated benchmarks.. but I been contemplating a better system to give a more detailed info of the differences between the DEs
2276[18:14:15] <rant> geek1011: not in xfce it doesnt.. for whatever reason
2277[18:14:50] <geek1011> rant: I guess. The funny thing is I have more automated in i3 than I did in XFCE :D
2278[18:14:54] <rant> I also got annoyed by inconsistencies in their panel applets and debated hacking them.. but then considered it too much like work cause they're written in C which I think is silly
2279[18:15:18] <rant> some applets can easily work in rows, others cant for example..
2280[18:15:42] <geek1011> rant: the code is actually pretty easy to work with once you get started, but I agree the panel inconsistencies are annoying (especially the useless calendar)
2281[18:16:07] <rant> idk why everyone writes panel applets in C.. I think applets should be written in something more flexible like python or perl, or something interpreted where you can just hack them at will without rebuilding anything
2282[18:16:13] *** Joins: Abdullah (~ak@replaced-ip)
2288[18:18:00] <rant> I was thinking though for updating my de usage thing I may perform a more typical use benchmark and produce something stupified like a Windows(tm) experience index :P
2290[18:18:19] <davis> that fails because of nvidia
2291[18:18:30] <davis> i have apt-get remove nvidia-driver
2292[18:18:37] <geek1011> I had a plank dock on the bottom, and on the top panel: (whisker menu, vala-panel-appmenu, expanded-spacer, window-buttons-iconified, folders, applets, time, workspaces-4-rows)
2293[18:18:48] <davis> but it seems the soures are still around so it tries to build them or something
2294[18:18:56] <rant> cause that factoid I made, only installs them from tasksel, then I just boot a fresh install and run du -Th and free -h in their terminals.. its not really a good benchmark of typical usage like web browsing and such
2300[18:20:07] <rant> geek1011: yes well the point of making a de usage factoid was to satisfy new users who ask silly questions and want some sort of silly answer :P
2301[18:20:33] <geek1011> rant: I was like that 8 years ago when I was still a newbie :P
2302[18:20:40] <rant> so far it has been very useful it seems to new users wanting some sort of information about the differences between the choices
2308[18:22:32] <rant> geek1011: they have a new i7-9700 cpu, and installed a sid kernel to get support for the 9th gen video on the CPU, but now their fancy nvidia pcie card is not working
2309[18:22:40] <geek1011> oh, and a quick rant about the non-free office suites for linux: the deb packages are all messed up! the pre/post-install scripts modify icons, override file associations, remove config files, depend on nonexistent packages, and mess everything up!
2319[18:23:49] <judd> [10de:1f07] is 'TU106 [GeForce RTX 2070 Rev. A]' from 'NVIDIA Corporation' with kernel modules 'nouveau', 'snd-hda-intel' in stretch. See also replaced-url
2320[18:23:57] *** Quits: mase-tech (~mase-tech@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2322[18:24:11] <davis> hmm. so I apt-get remove nvidia-driver, apt-get autoremove, I am booted with a 5.2 kernel, and xwindows works using i910 chipset. But I can not install the 5.2 kernel headers.
2323[18:24:43] <davis> it keeps saying consult nvidia log.
2329[18:26:51] <geek1011> davis: what does sudo modinfo nvidia-drm say?
2330[18:27:35] <rant> I highly doubt he has any nvidia modules for the running kernel as we manually fetched the sid kernel and didnt have any headers installed for it
2331[18:28:07] <rant> the more important things would be what the output of trying to install the headers says.. EXACTLY
2333[18:28:20] <rant> rather than running around uninstalling nvidia packages and such
2334[18:28:37] <geek1011> rant: he said he needed to remove nvidia-driver, so I'm wondering if anything got left behind built for an old kernel
2335[18:28:56] *** Quits: spiros (~spiros@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2336[18:29:05] <davis> so this apt-get --purge autoremove nvidia-driver followed by dpkg -i linux-headers-5.2.0-2-amd64_5.2.7-1_amd64.deb says Consult /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-current/418.74/build/make.log for more information.
2337[18:29:07] <rant> he didn't /need/ to.. he thought he needed to.. and modinfo isn't going to tell you that
2339[18:29:21] <rant> he's running the 5.2 kernel, its only going to show you info about that kernel
2340[18:29:42] <geek1011> rant: unless something managed to load that module
2341[18:29:53] <rant> @.@
2342[18:29:54] <geek1011> rant: but I admit I'm not too familiar with the NVIDIA drivers
2343[18:29:54] <davis> and if yhou look at that log, it says the kernel config is wrong for building of the nvidia. which makes sense, since when I originally installed nvidia it was for kernel 4.x
2344[18:30:04] <davis> the module is not loaded
2345[18:30:14] <rant> there is no driver, can't be, it had no headers to make one, and it can't load a 4.19 module on a 5.2 kernel
2346[18:30:15] <davis> i've booted from the 5.2 kernel
2347[18:30:51] <davis> rant: exactly. not sure why its trying to build the headers for a module which is not installed nor loaded.
2381[18:36:29] <rant> if you WANTED for arguments sake to remove them now, you should've just used nvidia*
2382[18:36:32] <davis> i am removing them so that the headers will install
2383[18:36:51] <rant> the headers do no good without the drivers to build :D
2384[18:36:52] <davis> now I assume I can reinstall them and since the headers are there it can rebuild
2385[18:37:07] <geek1011> this is why I use aptitude for dependency resolution.....and actually read the output to make sure it is doing what I intend to do
2386[18:37:20] <davis> lol
2387[18:37:25] * rant assumes you're going to see the same problem from a different angle
2388[18:37:35] <greycat> geek1011: in theory, maybe, but davis is attempting to use sid packages on buster
2389[18:37:55] <rant> manually fetched packages no less
2390[18:38:07] <rant> that there are no policy/source for
2391[18:38:13] * geek1011 thinks it would be easier just to use sid from the beginning
2392[18:38:22] <davis> i am doing an apt-get install nvidia-driver now
2393[18:38:32] <rant> we don't recommend that here, especially to new users
2394[18:38:35] <davis> geek1011: i was going to try unstable, but this was suggested
2395[18:38:42] * geek1011 hasn't had any stability issues except the recent initramfs bug with e2fsprogs and logread stuff
2396[18:38:59] <rant> we only suggested the newer kernel just to see if a newer kernel would properly support their new hardware
2397[18:39:03] <davis> lol, now it says errors during nvidia-driver and dkms
2401[18:39:47] <rant> you mean to tell me you still have to resolve the ACTUAL problem? *gasps* the horror..
2402[18:39:50] <davis> i'm guessing the one via apt is not setup to build for a 5.2 kernel
2403[18:40:03] <rant> man, you're just full of surprises
2404[18:40:11] <geek1011> davis: can I see nvidia-installer.log?
2405[18:40:16] <davis> i wonder if i am in the archlinux channel
2406[18:40:35] <rant> now you're telling me you think the nvidia drivers for a branch that doesnt have a 5.2 kernel might not work with a 5.2 kernel.. my mind is blowing here
2407[18:40:39] <davis> geek1011: yah, i don't know how to get that though
2408[18:40:49] <geek1011> davis: try /var/log
2409[18:40:54] <rant> geek1011: you might be on to something :D
2410[18:41:04] <geek1011> davis: I think the issue might be at least partly due to the drm symbol changes in linux 5.*
2439[18:45:23] <davis> cat /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-current/418.74/build/make.log | nc termbin.com 9999 pasted. But, fwiw, this log file was noted from a different command and not the apt-get install nvidia-driver which simply failed and did not give a log file to examine.
2469[18:48:08] <geek1011> note these lines: /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-current/418.74/build/nvidia-uvm/uvm8_tools.c:209:13: error: conflicting types for ‘put_user_pages’ / /usr/src/linux-headers-5.2.0-2-common/include/linux/mm.h:1080:6: note: previous declaration of ‘put_user_pages’ was here
2497[18:54:18] <geek1011> I don't have time to go through the source and tell you what to change (I need to go in a moment), but maybe rant can help with that.
2504[18:57:00] <greycat> "this nvidia driver doesn't compile with linux 5.2 because data types have changed" is way beyond the scope of #debian. Maybe #nvidia can advise.
2505[18:57:05] <Nothing4You> is it possible to create a raid1 btrfs for /boot and raid10 btrfs for / and boot the system with that setup?
2511[18:59:57] <jelly> greycat, typically solved by "wait until upsteam fixes and debian maintainers put the updated one into experimental or unstable or stable-backports"
2518[19:01:36] *** Quits: Insanity_ (uid179350@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2519[19:04:04] <davis> hmm. its an either or situation. i either switch back to 4.x kernel which supports the nvidia card. use that and then I can at least have the nvidia working. Or, I can limp along with the chipset video and hope in future 5.2 kernel becomes available in stable.
2520[19:05:03] <greycat> It is pretty likely that a 5.2 kernel will be in buster-backports long before bullseye becomes stable. The issue for YOU right now is whether the nvidia driver will be ported to the 5.2 (or later) kernel API.
2521[19:05:04] <davis> its probably a better bet, to revert back to 4.x kernel. I wonder how to do that. apt-get install a 4.x kernel?
2524[19:05:28] <greycat> You already HAVE the 4.x kernel unless you did something moronic.
2525[19:05:32] <greycat> ls /boot
2526[19:05:50] <geek1011> Unless you already removed it, it should still be there and you can just remove the 5.x one AFTER you boot to the old one.
2527[19:05:50] <davis> geycat, moronic is my middle name! lol
2528[19:06:31] <greycat> After confirming that you didn't remove it (by doing ls /boot), at the GRUB menu when you reboot, choose "advanced options for Debian" and pick the kernel you want.
2552[19:14:08] *** Joins: davis (~davis@replaced-ip)
2553[19:14:13] <geek1011> !ask
2554[19:14:13] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2555[19:14:31] <davis> hmm. ok, so changed bios setting to be pci express for primary video.
2556[19:15:10] <geek1011> davis: are you booted to 4.19?
2557[19:15:49] <davis> it booted the kernel selection menu, i selected 4.x. it fails to load some modules. I figure apt-get install nvidia-driver would fix it. it says removing files, starts building and then fails because its trying to build 5.2.
2558[19:15:57] <davis> yes, i am booted as 4.19
2559[19:16:09] <davis> uname -a says 4.19
2560[19:16:33] <davis> i assume it tried to build modules for both kernel versions and it failed on 5.2 as before
2561[19:16:43] <geek1011> First, remove the 5.x kernel the way you installed it.
2562[19:16:45] <davis> i assume i need to remove the 5.2 packages
2563[19:16:55] <geek1011> Yes
2564[19:17:27] <davis> i'm guessing there is a dpkg command to list what is installed and then grep for 5.2 and note the ones which i installed and remove them
2565[19:17:49] <geek1011> If you pastebin your dpkg -l, I can give you the commands.
2651[20:11:00] <EdePopede> how good do the spam reports work on bdo? especially what about reaction time? not really relevant for spam, but malware is meh.
2683[20:24:51] <johnfg> Owner of /var/replaced-url
2684[20:24:51] <geek1011> !ask
2685[20:24:51] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2692[20:26:34] <johnfg> greycat: See, that's the good simple answer I needed, as I was overthinking it.
2693[20:26:37] <johnfg> greycat: Thanks!
2694[20:26:40] <greycat> Also, *why* do you want it to be owned by replaced-url
2695[20:26:56] *** Quits: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2696[20:27:28] <johnfg> greycat: Perhaps best practices? Don't remember exactly when I did it, but something complained about root.
2697[20:27:52] <johnfg> I'm running the typo3 cms, and not sure if that's why. I know I can do whatever though.
2698[20:27:53] <greycat> If some web-application needs to write to it, then that's a somewhat-valid reason. If it's "because I want it to match the directory", that's not.
2699[20:28:35] <greycat> if "typo3 cms" needs to write to certain subdirectories under /var/replaced-url
2700[20:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1541
2701[20:29:23] <stefandxm> Yes, keeping as few items writable /owned by the serving application makes sense
2702[20:29:49] <stefandxm> Consider adding a replaced-url
2704[20:30:19] <geek1011> there's also ACLs too for more complex setups
2705[20:30:34] <pasiz> have anyone idea why my wifi is lagging on lenovo X201 (debian testing). There is approx second or two pauses. This happens only on 2.4 ghz band... If i switch on 5ghz, no hiccups occurs.
2706[20:31:11] <Habbie> pasiz, in my house, all devices do that on 2.4.. it may not be a debian problem
2707[20:31:19] <johnfg> greycat: So, is it required to delete/remove a symbolic link before you recreate it to a different source?
2724[20:36:23] <greycat> so you're *in* whatever directory this symlink is in
2725[20:36:41] <johnfg> When I ran: sudo ln -fs ../typo3_src-9.5.8 typo3_src, it didn't change that existing link, but created a link in typo3_src.
2726[20:36:48] <johnfg> greycat: Yes.
2727[20:37:39] <greycat> Well, if it doesn't work, then just remove the symlink first. Symlinks to directories might have different behavior than symlinks to files.
2756[20:57:33] <Nothing4You> does it work to change the rootfs (/) which doesn't include /boot to a new partition if i do it like this? 1. stop all non-essential services, 2. rsync all files from the old rootfs over, 3. chroot to new root, 4. update-grub to change rootfs for boot, 5. reboot?
2757[20:58:21] *** Quits: maggotbrain (~maggotbra@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2759[21:01:35] <Bushmills> there'll be file updated while doing so. log files, for example, some others in /var. those won't reflect the very latest state after rsync, and you'll lose some at the end from those
2760[21:01:52] <Nothing4You> i don't care about lost logs
2827[21:21:54] <jhutchins_wk> Nothing4You: Sounds like a new build is in order then.
2828[21:22:08] <trek00> Nothing4You: may be it's not relevant to you, but check the contents of your initramfs, may be you can spot something needed by your system: lsinitramfs /initrd.img
2829[21:22:10] <Nothing4You> btw what's better performance wise - mdadm raid0 for swap or multiple separate swapdevices?
2841[21:25:37] * geek1011 hates that memory-hogging giant
2842[21:25:42] <jhutchins_wk> Nothing4You: We did a group research project in our LUG a few years ago and concluded that anything less than $350 for the controller was a waste when it came to performance, and anything less was questionable on reliability.
2843[21:26:34] <jhutchins_wk> geek1011: We use oomkiller on our java boxes (not reeally on purpose).
2857[21:28:34] <jhutchins_wk> geek1011: I just configured one with 30G yesterday.
2858[21:28:52] <rant> I noticed when I use juicessh with mosh it connects no matter what, but when I mosh from Debian to my Debian server it will not connect if there is an existing mosh-server like earlier I drove off with it still connected to mosh, it lost wifi and then I powered the machine down.. so the mosh-server was still active but the client was dead
2859[21:28:55] <trek00> swap is the last line before an out of memory event, that is rarely handled by applications
2860[21:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1530
2861[21:29:24] <geek1011> jhutchkins_wk: this is my personal one, as I don't have endless amounts of money :D
2863[21:29:42] <alkisg> Nothing4You: in ltsp, we have a method of cloning a server / as a template for the clients; we're basically using `mount --bind / /tmp/dir; cp -a /tmp/dir target`; that bind mount ensures that no submounts are inherited like dev, proc, gvfs or whatever, so it makes cp/rsync/mksquashfs very easy
2880[21:35:12] *** Quits: VadPerevad (~vadpereva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2881[21:35:52] <CleymSpaze> 1000 schools can afford only 1 supervisor?
2882[21:36:53] <alkisg> CleymSpaze: i'm developing, writing guides, solving the difficult issues; then each school has an IT teacher with no linux expertise that is able to read the documentation and maintain the easy parts himself
2883[21:37:15] <Nothing4You> looks like everything worked, thanks
2884[21:37:33] <alkisg> It works fine for everyone that way; no stress at all
2888[21:39:49] <alkisg> jhutchins_wk: I'm recommending dual windows + ltsp (linux) installations; ltsp needs only one installation per school, so it's very easy to maintain; some teachers go for diskless linux only though, without windows
2889[21:40:08] <alkisg> (some of the teachers do need windows, so it's best to offer both and not make a fuss of it)
2902[21:49:01] <CleymSpaze> then you open windows and it changes again?
2903[21:49:13] *** dingen is now known as dreamer
2904[21:50:09] <alkisg> We packaged around 20 GB of software in .deb format using wine, java, flash etc, so most of the teachers were fine without windows too (except for the air :D); but in some cases they need some software, local (greek) or not... it's usually best to give them all options; and then they usually end up using linux most of the time anyway :)
2905[21:50:36] <alkisg> Some preferred ltsp because they had ancient computer labs; but a couple of years later, when they got new computers, they asked for linux again...
2906[21:50:43] <jhutchins_wk> I think it's cool that they have access to linux; I think there's nothing wrong with windows, it's a necessary work skill for most people.
2907[21:50:53] <Tordek> yeah, like that, commonly used in 「いいえ！待って、お兄ちゃん」
2960[22:29:44] <trek00> han_: it depends by the panel you are using, they all have different configurations
2961[22:30:38] <han_> i didn't make any changes. ,
2962[22:30:49] <stefandxm> is there a channel for arm debian?
2963[22:31:06] <greycat> #debian-arm on OFTC
2964[22:31:17] <trek00> han_: probably you are using gnome desktop, but i have no experience with that
2965[22:31:19] <stefandxm> oftc?
2966[22:31:24] <greycat> !oftc
2967[22:31:24] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
2968[22:31:46] <stefandxm> cool! thank you :)
2969[22:32:08] *** Quits: han_ (~han@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3006[22:58:46] <rant> do they make a tool for building random sources that wraps ./configure or something? so I dont sit here running it over and over finding and satisfying deps one at a time?
3037[23:02:54] <trek00> rant: i remember configure creates cache files for things it found, may be you can reuse these cache files with multiple builds
3065[23:13:13] <FIUBOT> Whenever savelog runs, log.txt is converted to log.txt.0, log.txt.0 to log.txt.1, and so on. My problem is that the program's output, once savelog runs, doesn't keep going to log.txt, it goes to log.txt.0
3066[23:13:32] <FIUBOT> If savelog is run again, the program's output is sent to log.txt.1
3067[23:13:45] <pasiz> FIUBOT: it's like log rotation
3068[23:13:54] <pasiz> and what is the problem?
3069[23:14:06] <trek00> FIUBOT: the program should close and reopen log.txt after receiving a SIGHUP, if not you should restart the program after logrotation
3070[23:14:08] <pasiz> seems your savelog is working as expected
3099[23:17:46] <FIUBOT> Still the program output goes to the log.txt.0 file
3100[23:18:09] <jhutchins> FIUBOT: What is the program?
3101[23:18:18] <pasiz> savelog
3102[23:18:51] <trek00> FIUBOT: when a log is begin rotated, it is simply renamed to another name, but the program still having a file handler opened to that file, whichever the filename is
3123[23:30:07] <jhutchins> FIUBOT: /user/sbin/logrotate - sbin is not in regular users, you need to call it as root. This makes sense, as it is operating on daemons and system files.
3124[23:31:06] <jhutchins> not in reagular users' $PATH
3125[23:31:40] <FIUBOT> $ ls -ltra | grep -i log
3126[23:31:45] *** Quits: xin_ (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3156[23:40:46] <FIUBOT> Regardless, the only way that I can get the output to the same log.txt is by restarting the program each time I run savelog?
3157[23:41:25] <FIUBOT> jhutchins: $ man logrotate // No manual entry for logrotate
3158[23:42:20] <LtL> FIUBOT: /usr/sbin/logrotate -f /etc/logrotate.conf #force rotation of log files# if this is what you want
3159[23:42:26] <jhutchins> FIUBOT: your pipe does not write to the file by filename, it already has the actual file open and it doesn't even know you've renamed it. In order to switch files, the pipe has to close/end and a new one started.
3160[23:42:30] <jordanm> FIUBOT: for applications that don't use SIGHUP or similar to tell it to reopen it's log files, you can use the "copytruncate" option in logrotate
3161[23:42:52] <Habbie> but copytruncate is terrible
3171[23:44:38] <trek00> FIUBOT: yes, restarting the program each time will fix it
3172[23:46:07] <jordanm> hmm packages.d.o doesn't list package package priority
3173[23:46:35] <FIUBOT> Yes, my shell server uses Gentoo
3174[23:47:11] <jordanm> yeah, it's priority: important. available on every debian install, but I guess it could be stripped from debian docker containers