12[00:02:36] <coruja> maxrazer, if some software needs dbus, apt will install it
13[00:03:08] <maxrazer> hmm, well hexchat would freeze when trying to connect to server. After dbus installed I think it works fine. Also, suddenly I'm getting messages with dunst working.
14[00:03:30] <maxrazer> And dbus communicates between applications, so that makes sense.
15[00:03:31] <coruja> maxrazer, and i guess there is some configuration setting in xfce to change background wallpapers
17[00:04:05] <maxrazer> coruja, Yes, but I'm not using XFCE. I'm just using i3wm. Do you know where the wallpaper setting could have been changed? It isn't a feh config file. I checked.
24[00:09:50] <maxrazer> coruja, Ok, thanks. It isn't a big deal. I just think it is mysterious that I have wallpaper and nothing I can find that is creating/setting it.
25[00:09:55] <ayekat> maxrazer: I don't use i3 either, but apparently it manages the wallpaper on its own, so you might need to configure i3's config to set/change the wallpaper
26[00:10:13] <ayekat> (rather than fiddling around with wallpaper setters like feh)
27[00:10:26] <maxrazer> ayekat, Maybe. I checked the i3 config and didn't see it. It didn't get set until I installed XFCE, but I already had feh installed.
28[00:10:39] <rant> maxrazer: xwininfo
29[00:10:51] <maxrazer> I got the debian 10 wallpaper by default. It stayed when I uninstalled XFCE and use i3wm.
66[00:28:46] <cluelessperson> maxrazer I use my home servers to test configurations for later work implementations
67[00:29:12] <cluelessperson> I dislike that debian is using pieces of systemd, but not others
68[00:29:24] <rant> cluelessperson: you can use whatever method you like.. systemd-networkd, /etc/network/interfaces w/ ifupdown, network-manager whatever
69[00:30:08] <cluelessperson> rant well, I'm trying, and something's renaming my network interfaces
70[00:30:11] <cluelessperson> so that I cannot use them
73[00:30:37] <rant> cluelessperson: I thought you had resolved that issue, that it was due to you using mac to identify them
74[00:31:35] *** Quits: _pa (~vjetar@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye a/All, it's time to walk the dog...)
75[00:31:53] <iqubic> So, I have an official ISO with Gnome and the Calamares installer. Will that be able to use the internet connection from the host machine to install Debian?
160[01:26:59] <LanDi> can someone help me to make opentracker work on my server? (or at least recommend me another irc channel where I should ask for help
166[01:37:13] <cluelessperson> rant it just has some user friendly integration that enables easier autocompletion with the @ symbol rather than tab completion. I'd sugest removing @ entirely
167[01:37:20] <cluelessperson> and fixing the notification sounds/ tones/ colors
182[01:56:47] <cluelessperson> I'm sorry to keep bothering you, but I'm completely stuck, and only dead ends.
183[01:58:12] <cluelessperson> Basically, I created a link, network file that name vlans. Then I created netdev files that create interfaces to represent those vlans.
184[01:58:28] <cluelessperson> It seems to work, but when debian boot, soemthing else renames them from uplink.101 to rename6
185[01:58:36] <cluelessperson> There's no hint at what is doing it.
186[01:58:50] <cluelessperson> The suspicion is that it's udev, but I can't find any rules that do that.
230[02:25:36] <jak2000> i have a server with next specs: Dell (Mec) Power Edge T140 i install debian, in a SSD hard disk... but when boot not recognize the SSD disk, not boot any advice why?
308[03:27:14] <GenTooMan> It has been over 2.7 hours since he said anything so ... maybe?
309[03:27:20] <annadane> if i want to wipe this partition and back up my home folder first... what's the best way? creating a tar is taking forever, i'd downloaded a program called snapper which can do backups, i'm just wondering about less time intensive ways
310[03:27:48] *** ephemer0l is now known as GeneralDiscourse
313[03:28:55] <GenTooMan> annadane tar can be extremely fast, you just should not put tar file onto the same drive that will cause a lot of extra seeking to occur and slow things down.
315[03:32:46] <GenTooMan> annadane I normally create a tar file on a USB HD actually, works fast and interleaves the IO hardware to work somewhat efficiently. If you are using BZIP2 and or compression this will not be IO bound easily in that fashion. It won't be instant though it will take a fair amount of time took me a few hours for my /home for example.
348[03:44:56] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
349[03:44:57] <fraktor> I don't know where to start diagnosing the issue, and I'm a little concerned since uninstalling my graphics drivers has historically been a pain to fix.
350[03:45:05] <luoyedaren> annadane why not use xflux
399[04:13:29] <DammitJim> it seems when I have my laptop connected to my docking station at the office and it's on ethernet, things work just fine
400[04:14:00] <DammitJim> but then when I get home and I use wifi, the DNS servers don't get updated and I can't connect to anything unless I edit the /etc/resolv.conf and change the dns servers manually
401[04:14:36] <theraspberry> Network manager should update the resolv.conf for you when connecting to WIFI
402[04:15:56] *** Quits: silverballz (~hidden@replaced-ip) (Quit: One for all, all for One (2 Corinthians 5))
403[04:16:28] <lolcat-007> theraspberry: how can i restart the entire network by console???
404[04:16:42] <DammitJim> I think I'm using connman
405[04:16:59] <DammitJim> oh no! maybe I have both?
422[04:26:19] <DammitJim> that's what I would do, lol768
423[04:26:22] <DammitJim> lolcat-007,
424[04:26:25] <Peek95> Hi
425[04:26:45] <Peek95> After some days reading about wayland, I know I want to use it rather then X11. However as a graphical-linux-noob, I'm a bit lost as to get it "going". How would one upgrade a minimalist Debian text installation to run KDE plasma on top of Wayland ?
426[04:27:11] *** Quits: VadPerevad (~vadpereva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
427[04:28:04] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
438[04:32:36] <tabemann> now half of the time it refuses to properly suspend, hibernate, or shutdown
439[04:32:47] <CaptainDusty> tabemann: I think that's a debian-next query.
440[04:33:00] <CaptainDusty> !debian-next
441[04:33:00] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
442[04:33:06] <CaptainDusty> (I only know this due to a recent similar query..)
469[04:44:48] <tabemann> it's unfortunate that support for testing is relegated to some other server (which is likely not known to the average person), when testing isn't just something for developers to use
470[04:45:19] <tabemann> (I personally have always used testing or unstable - after doing a fresh debian install I always switch it over to one of the two)
471[04:45:32] *** Quits: VadPerevad (~vadpereva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
499[05:00:11] <strgout> howdy all! over the past few weeks i've dove into madness by attempting to learn and understand pam. My goal is getting a pam module libpam-tacplus working.
502[05:01:33] <strgout> I pretty much have it working with recent git package but I was trying to understand what the point of using tacplus for session or account would be. I think the same would be true of radius. My end goal is account must exist in /etc/passwd and if tacacs is down failover to shadow password
503[05:02:14] <strgout> all of which i have working. I'm just trying to understand if there is down sites to not sending session and account over to tacacs and just doing auth.
548[05:26:01] <Strum> i've been trying slackware, but with having to do so much manually and it not being easily compatible I'm looking for something i can actual get some work done with instead of spending all my time just getting things working
549[05:26:44] <dvs> ...and that's why I like Debian
550[05:26:59] <Strum> i tried ubuntu, but it's so dumbed down now you might as well just use windows so debian seems somewhere in between
563[05:29:59] <GenTooMan> GenToo biggest issue was configuring the boot to be honest, the next was the X drivers ugh. I wanted to use the system not configure it all the time.
564[05:30:09] <Strum> yep
565[05:30:20] <Strum> that might be fine if you just want to be a sysadmin
566[05:30:37] <Strum> but i want a development system that i don't have to mess about with too much
567[05:31:08] <Strum> so i can get soem develop,ent done instead of just administering the sytem
568[05:31:09] <dvs> GenTooMan, not even the WiFi drivers?
569[05:31:39] <GenTooMan> You can install eclipse straight from eclipse.org I found so that's not to bad. You do have to be sure to install all requirements first however.
570[05:32:01] <GenTooMan> dvs I used ethernet only so no wifi Worries. I lucked out I guess.
574[05:36:06] *** AlmarShenwan_ is now known as AlmarShenwan
575[05:36:49] <Strum> i'm having an internal battle between my inner Richard Stallman and accpetance of the inevitable closing in of the matrix on all aspects of the web
576[05:37:33] <Strum> it's becoming almost impossible to do anything without compromising privacy and security
622[06:13:10] <GenTooMan> Strum well that's more of a political statement but unfortunately true. however that is something to discuss in a different channel I guess.
643[06:18:17] <cluelessperson> in `/etc/systemd/network/` I have 3 files, essentially.
644[06:18:23] <cluelessperson> 10-uplink.link which names the interface with mac address? to `uplink.100`
645[06:18:46] <cluelessperson> 10-uplink.network which enables DHCP on it, and recognizes VLANs on it. 101-106
646[06:19:16] <cluelessperson> 11-uplink.netdev which creates a network interface, to represent that vlan with id 101, naming it `uplink.101`
647[06:19:47] <SerajewelKS> so uplink.100 carries tagged vlan and uplink.10[1-6] are virtual untagged vlan interfaces on the uplink.100 physical interface?
648[06:19:59] <cluelessperson> yes! :D
649[06:20:10] <SerajewelKS> anything in /etc/udev/rules.d?
650[06:20:18] <cluelessperson> all specified here: replaced-url
665[06:24:49] <SerajewelKS> i wouldn't expect the distro-provided rules to conflict with .link files
666[06:25:54] <SerajewelKS> it looks like having a "renameN" interface can be a symptom of having rules that give the same name to two different interfaces
668[06:26:38] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: can you upload everything in /etc/systemd/network somewhere?
669[06:27:23] <SerajewelKS> BTW if you have a bunch of units that differ only by some string (such as 101 vs 102 etc) then you can use systemd template units
670[06:27:42] <SerajewelKS> i assume that works with netdev units
671[06:28:32] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS I dunno, but I can upload
672[06:28:39] <SerajewelKS> so you could have uplinkvlan@.netdev and "systemctl enable uplinkvlan@101.netdev" and poof, you have the 101 interface
673[06:28:55] <SerajewelKS> then repeat for 102-106. and they all share the same template.
674[06:29:09] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS for now, I expect this to work, I'd prefer not to complicate it
675[06:29:28] <SerajewelKS> right. not suggesting we do that right now, just putting that thought in the back of your mind for later.
689[06:36:21] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: that suspicion will be stronger if it's always uplink.101 and uplink.103 that have this problem
690[06:36:56] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS I avoid exposing anything identifiable, so that if you somehow used this information to gain access my information, you lack information to know where you're going.
691[06:37:10] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS The first step to defeating security/monitoring, is to understand how it works, and where things are.
692[06:37:26] <cluelessperson> I'll see you poking around/scanning long before you know where to go, much less identify an exploit you can use.
699[06:38:44] <cluelessperson> it's not repeated, none of them are
700[06:39:31] <SerajewelKS> what's the syslog line where you see the renaming?
701[06:40:06] <SerajewelKS> i wonder if the dependency of 11-uplink.netdev requires 10.uplink.network is automatically derived by systemd or if you need a Requires= line
702[06:40:20] <SerajewelKS> maybe this could be caused by the interfaces starting in the wrong order?
703[06:41:12] <SerajewelKS> hmm it doesn't seem to be necessary
704[06:42:26] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS I would expect one of the dozen "tutorials" to mention that, or it to be more obvoius, but it's possible
705[06:42:35] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
706[06:42:59] <SerajewelKS> can you paste the relevant syslog sections without having to redact too much?
715[06:47:34] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS that appears to me, that its networkd bringing up the interfaces, and udev immediatley trying to rename them
716[06:47:37] <SerajewelKS> but even with those lines i'm not sure i'll be too much help. udev has always been a black box to me. perhaps someone else can assist with that.
717[06:47:54] <cluelessperson> sounds like I should maybe give up on systemd
718[06:48:18] <cluelessperson> sounds like debian doesn't support it well, unsure
719[06:48:22] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
728[06:52:29] <SerajewelKS> but this is for .link units
729[06:53:13] <SerajewelKS> so i THINK a .link name will work: [Match] \n OriginalName=uplink.* \n [Link] \n NamePolicy=kernel
730[06:53:19] <SerajewelKS> .link unit*
731[06:53:23] <hatter_> I am trying change my default kernel on Debian 9, changing the default kernel in /etc/default/grub is having no effect, any clues ?
732[06:54:04] <SerajewelKS> NamePolicy=keep might also work
733[06:54:24] <cluelessperson> I was just looking at that, will try now. :)
734[06:55:07] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: Name= actually is a fallback if all NamePolicy= mechanisms fail
735[06:55:37] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: an empty "NamePolicy=" could also work
736[06:55:38] *** shingouz_ is now known as shingouz
737[06:57:08] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: NamePolicy= has no effect, I believe, if the kernel option net.ifnames is 0. i think 0 is the default on debian. so AIUI this shouldn't fix anything. however, the default was 1 at one time. so i dunno.
754[07:00:53] <alkisg> hatter_: pastebin your /etc/default/grub and your /boot/grub/grub.cfg?
755[07:01:33] <hatter_> alkisg, ok
756[07:01:52] <hatter_> serajewlKS, the problem with uninstalling hte newer kernel, an update will put it back again
757[07:02:16] <SerajewelKS> hatter_: only if you use the metapackage that depends on the latest. you can just uninstall that metapackage.
758[07:02:27] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS yeah, I mean I was staring at the man page for an hour, but that's a completely different section, and it didn't hit me that it was killing the connection of the other child interfaces.
760[07:02:49] <cluelessperson> rather, it was killing the parent, so midway though starting up children interfaces, it would fail
761[07:02:51] <SerajewelKS> hatter_: trying to remove the newer kernel should complain about the dependency problem. just accept the solution that removes the metapackage.
764[07:04:35] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: i recently diagnosed a problem that's been plauging my server for months as well... some days my server would become unresponsive overnight and take until like 2PM to start responding again
766[07:04:56] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: this week i finally put the pieces together that it only happens sunday AM when i have a specific VM running
767[07:04:58] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS what was it?
771[07:05:40] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: combination of multiple factors: daily backups at 2AM and 4AM (different directories), RAID scrub at 12:57 AM on sunday, VM running
772[07:06:09] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: the VM used enough memory to cause the backup process to push other stuff into swap
773[07:06:10] <hatter_> in the /etc/default/grub the kernel I am asking it to use is GRUB_DEFAULT=3
786[07:07:55] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: scrubbing usually takes many hours though and starts around midnight. i don't want the backups before 1am or after 7am.
787[07:07:55] <alkisg> hatter_: I think it's this: GRUB_DEFAULT="gnulinux-advanced-38e2124f-d4aa-44d7-911e-f32a2f8d70f5>gnulinux-3.16.0-4-amd64-advanced-38e2124f-d4aa-44d7-911e-f32a2f8d70f5"
788[07:08:05] <hatter_> alkisg, are you saying I should not be using : GRUB_DEFAULT=3 ?
789[07:08:13] <alkisg> hatter_: yes
790[07:08:14] <hatter_> Alkisg, OK thx I will try
791[07:08:28] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: i could change the scrub to 6am but then i'm messing with distro-provided conf files and i try to avoid that
792[07:08:49] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: clearly the best solution is to add 3 hours to every day, the backups can run then
797[07:09:46] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: what drives me nuts is that the box runs my DNS server so DNS stops working too, despite the DNS service being niced -15
798[07:09:48] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS you also don't necessarily have to scrub that often either.
799[07:09:54] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: i need a way to tell the system "never ever swap anything in the DNS server"
801[07:10:09] <alkisg> hatter_: using numbers, it would be something like: GRUB_DEFAULT="1>3", but it's better to use identifiers than numbers
802[07:10:20] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS You might want to limit the IO usage, slow down the scrub. Honestly, you might want to ditch RAID as well, depending.
803[07:10:27] *** Quits: hatter_ (~Richard@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
804[07:10:38] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: nah, RAID already saved me time when one of the disks died
810[07:11:26] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: lowering the minimum scrub rate is probably the best solution, TBH
811[07:11:48] <SerajewelKS> aside from the peak of swapping during backups, the I/O rate on the system is pretty close to zero
812[07:12:04] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS ah, yeah, didn't know you could do that, but yes. You want to lower the scrub rate and backup rate so they only hit like 50% of disk IO
813[07:12:28] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS I use ZFS storage, NFS, and I'm currently implementing Docker containers.
814[07:12:29] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: backup is to different disks. there's no I/O to slow in the backup process itself.
815[07:12:48] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: it's the backup process needing RAM that swaps other stuff to disk. which doesn't happen when the VM isn't running as there's an extra GB of RAM.
816[07:13:57] <hatter_>
817[07:14:16] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS I'm a bit confused, I wouldn't expect backups to require much ram
818[07:14:16] <hatter_> alkisg: that was it, thank you
824[07:16:47] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: i use restic which is a deduplicating and encrypted backup solution. it's a bit RAM-hungry to store the set of blob hashes in the repository in RAM to be able to quickly discard duplicate blobs.
825[07:17:12] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: and np, i learned useful stuff about systemd-networkd today in the process.
826[07:17:23] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS ah. I got fed up and setup a dedicated storage server with ZFS. It's certainly RAM hungry
828[07:18:18] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: aside from the high RAM usage, restic is pretty fantastic. the developer is working on a patch that stores the hash set on disk instead of in RAM. the trade-off is slower dedupe but less RAM usage.
829[07:18:39] <SerajewelKS> it's basically just pre-swapping the hash set
833[07:19:10] <SerajewelKS> right. the advantage of restic for me is the backends it supports, which includes B2 and S3.
834[07:19:37] <SerajewelKS> and you can also back up to a local directory and rsync/rclone it somewhere else. it's rsync-friendly.
835[07:19:57] <SerajewelKS> so it's very compatible with just about any off-site storage you'd want to use.
836[07:20:07] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS hm. I'm confused about whether or not you're describing a storage backend, or a backup tool.
837[07:20:37] <cluelessperson> SerajewelKS ZFS is a filesystem backend, I use a tool like rclone or similar to send backups to S3 or backblaze buckets.
838[07:21:19] <SerajewelKS> restic is just a deduplicating backup tool that supports backing up to various storage systems (local directory, B2, S3, sftp...)
883[08:12:00] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: was just digging into mdadm's cron checkarray and it's not every sunday, my bad... it's the first sunday of each month. which is another reason this took so long to track down; it's very infrequent.
884[08:12:09] <SerajewelKS> if you can guess, it happened again on the 4th :)
892[08:20:59] <SerajewelKS> cluelessperson: the current raid minimum sync speed is 1MB/s. that seems to low to be affecting things this much.
893[08:21:38] <SerajewelKS> though i suppose that with a decent amount of swap activity happening at a different part of the disk, the disk could easily start to thrash trying to seek back and forth
894[08:22:10] <SerajewelKS> i've never really figured out how to effectively identify I/O bottlenecks on linux, either the metrics i'd use aren't present or i don't know how to identify/read them
942[09:06:00] <ZaZaGX> i think its like sudo or something. not sure
943[09:06:10] <becks`> hi, when connecting with ssh/putty to an appliance (not sure if it is debian...), my up key just prints an A on the console... somebody knows which setting I need to change?
977[09:15:48] <ayekat> given how extraordinarily minimalistic your system there appears to be, I doubt the shell has any advanced capabilities like convenient command line editing
978[09:16:01] <becks`> woah this works! thanks :D how did you figure out?
979[09:16:39] <ayekat> oh - if ctrl-p works, it appears to have readline (or readline-like) capabilities - so it might indeed be a terminfo issue :-)
980[09:16:52] <ayekat> becks`: what does `echo $0` say?
1004[09:24:36] <SerajewelKS> ZaZaGX: i believe that the "apt" command line tool more or less shares the goal of wajig: unify all of the various apt-* tools into a single command
1005[09:25:29] <ZaZaGX> ohh
1006[09:25:38] <ZaZaGX> yeah i meant to say that :P
1007[09:26:12] <SerajewelKS> becks`: i've seen lots of appliances that provide their own shells
1008[09:26:45] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: that's about right. apt is meant to be a user-friendly frontend for the most common functions
1009[09:26:46] <SerajewelKS> becks`: HP's iLO environment, for example
1099[10:12:46] * Haohmaru is amuzed about the errors that get printed sometimes during systemd, and then poof - it goes away and you get yer login manager like nothing happened
1151[10:41:47] <newtodeb> Hey Guys, i openend a question at the unix stackexchange and wanted to ask if some of you expierenced the same or a similar problem maybe you can help me %n replaced-url
1152[10:43:05] <netcrash> Hello, Does anyone know what driver should be used for proxmox scsi in Debian 10?
1174[10:54:38] <toruvinn> newtodeb, you shouldnt touch /dev/pts whatever permissions. the "problem" here seems to be that you have `mesg' somewhere in your shell's profile.
1175[10:54:44] <toruvinn> newtodeb, do yu need that?
1185[10:57:24] <toruvinn> newtodeb, right, so probably as the USER you su to you have stuff in your .bash_profile or something like this, im not sure what shell you use. probably bash, though.
1186[10:57:36] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1187[10:57:48] <toruvinn> newtodeb, if you dont have anything special in your shell profile files, you can just copy the default from /etc/skel
1188[10:58:32] <newtodeb> toruvinn thank you that drove me kinda crazy just commented out the mesg line thank you for that fast advise.... was beginner mistake ^^
1225[11:26:26] <humpled> wait does /etc/skel stuff really go in /root?
1226[11:26:35] *** drz3k is now known as drzacek
1227[11:30:03] <ayekat> /etc/skel stuff is copied to a newly created user's home by tools like useradd - but the root user is never "created" in a conventional way
1228[11:31:01] <humpled> i can't tell which one newtodeb was talking about
1237[11:37:41] <jeanre> does the installer allow you to choose the DE?
1238[11:37:43] *** Quits: ShamelessScriptR (uid57472@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1239[11:37:44] <jeanre> or WM?
1240[11:38:28] <alkisg> Heh, funny, `debootstrap jessie jessie` actually creates a different /root/.profile than /etc/skel/.profile; same for .bashrc; while /root/.bash_logout doesn't exit
1241[11:38:28] <ayekat> jeanre: afaik it proposes at least some DEs, yes
1242[11:38:48] <jeanre> ok because I would like to not use gnome / kde, i3 maybe
1243[11:38:48] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1244[11:38:52] <jeanre> not sure yet :P
1245[11:39:05] <jeanre> although gnome is seriously awesome
1246[11:39:15] <ayekat> jeanre: you can always install without any DE/WM and install the tools of your choice afterwards
1262[11:43:33] <BCMM> jeanre: you *can* use them on debian. but debian isn't packaging stuff like that instead of as .debs or anything.
1263[11:43:34] <ayekat> distributions use distribution packages - but I believe you can install appimage/snapd/flatpak on most distributions if you like that sort of thing
1264[11:44:20] <jeanre> yeah Fedora tries to force you
1265[11:44:56] <ayekat> I've never used fedora, but I highly doubt that
1275[11:47:29] <jeanre> unless you jump through hoops
1276[11:47:46] <ayekat> but if you stick to your distro package manager, you can usually entirely ignore that madness - but really, this is also a bit off-topic IMHO
1319[12:14:24] <jelly> !why is pinta not in testing
1320[12:14:25] <dpkg> pinta is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
1321[12:16:10] <jelly> the package seems to suffer from inattentive maintainer, there's a "grave" bug that seems unreproducible but noone lowered the severity
1322[12:16:19] *** Quits: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1323[12:16:20] *** Quits: rustyshackleford (uid236774@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1389[12:36:34] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
1390[12:36:39] <dusty128> Hi, I have troubles with the startup of a systemd service. When I start it manyually after boot, it works, but it fails starting during boot. Any clue how to fix this / find out the problem?
1399[12:42:26] <dusty128> ayekat: Thanks for help, yes, if I start it manually, "journalctl -u " tells me that it is started. But during boot, it there is no log entry at all. It seems almost as if it does not even try to start.
1400[12:42:48] <ayekat> dusty128: did you actually enable the service?
1401[12:43:35] <dusty128> ayekat: I did a "systemctl enable dirsrv@mail" - is there any way to check if it is really enabled?
1411[12:45:56] <g0zzy> Grrr. I have "goose ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL" in sudoers and sudo is STILL asking for a password. Is that not quite right syntactically?
1412[12:46:19] <dusty128> ayekat: The output is as follows: "dirsrv@mail.service - 389 Directory Server mail.
1413[12:46:19] <dusty128> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/dirsrv@.service; enabled; vendor preset: e
1417[12:46:52] <ayekat> g0zzy: if it's syntactically incorrect, visudo should've complained, but... I would still try to add a space after the colon there
1420[12:47:29] <dusty128> ayekat: I wonder if there are any dependencies the service is waiting for? If I start it manually, it tells me "systemd[1]: Starting 389 Directory Server mail...."
1421[12:47:56] <Habbie> g0zzy, can you show the full sudoers file?
1422[12:48:41] <ayekat> dusty128: what's the output of `systemctl cat dirsrv@.service`? (to a paste service, not directly into the IRC chat)
1423[12:48:51] <g0zzy> Actually that did it ayekat. Thanks
1424[12:49:05] *** Quits: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1425[12:49:09] <ayekat> weird that visudo did not complain...
1445[12:55:58] <ayekat> hmm... so it appears that nothing actually requires dirsrv.target, and thus the dirsrv@.service is never started at system startup
1446[12:56:35] *** Quits: met (~met@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1447[12:56:54] <ayekat> dusty128: I'm not familiar with dirsrv, but is it possible that it's meant to be started together with some other services?
1449[12:57:19] <dusty128> ayekat: O.k., strange. (Btw. the problem applies to a debian 9 with Kolab 16 / a mail service). I did an apt-get upgrade yesterday and since then it is broken.
1450[12:57:19] <ayekat> maybe you might need to actually start another service that then pulls in the dirsrv service as a dependency (through the dirsrv.target)
1451[12:58:48] <ayekat> alternatively (but this is more of a hack), you could override the WantedBy= option, and set WantedBy=multi-user.target or something else that you know will be reached at system startup
1453[12:58:54] <ayekat> but again, that's not really a clean solution
1454[12:59:06] <dusty128> ayekat: Well, unfortunately I'm also not familiar with this, the system has another service called "dirserv-admin": replaced-url
1455[12:59:26] <ayekat> dusty128: OH!, yeah, that one is probably meant to be enabled
1457[13:00:01] <ayekat> it states After=[…] dirsrv.target, so that will also start everything that dirsrv.target depends on (including your dirsrv@ service)
1458[13:00:13] <ayekat> it also states WantedBy=multi-user.target
1459[13:00:22] <dusty128> ayekat: Oh my, yes, this one is disabled!
1461[13:01:42] <centrix> I have a system that stabilized at cca 550MB used ram and about 3.5GB cached RAM. I noticed 2.5MB of RAM borrowed from swap. I wonder why there's swap being used while there is 3.5GB cached?
1462[13:02:09] <centrix> vm.swappiness=1 may help?
1490[13:06:59] <jelly> (my personal opinion is vm.swappiness=60 _is_ too aggressive and 10 or 5 yields a bit more sanity on workstations and some server loads)
1491[13:07:28] <jelly> (but if you see a few MB swapped, and now a few GB, you don't have to care about it at all)
1494[13:08:34] <centrix> jelly, I agree. I set it up to 5. But the swap is used by winbindd which takes care of authenticating users. Generally I want winbind to be as fast as it can go.
1497[13:09:17] *** Quits: sebatron (b92ed54c@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1498[13:10:48] <jelly> active swapping is problematic. Idle pages on swap that go unused will not affect speed of active page access in the same process
1513[13:15:05] <jelly> centrix, 50MB is also nothing to worry about. Set up monitoring of _active_ swapping if you want to care about something that actually affects performance
1552[13:55:13] <GenTooMan> looks like Epson has drivers for Linux however they seem only for ubuntu and require lsb >= 3.2 the package however is actually lsb-base (linux standard base - base?) in buster suggestions thoughts (give up?)
1553[13:55:31] *** Quits: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1646[14:35:04] <Bushmills> How do you people feel about Microsoft involvement with github? Is that reason for you to consider migration, are you just doing business as usual, or what else actions are you prompted into because of that?
1653[14:36:50] <BCMM> Bushmills: the microsoft purchase doesn't affect it's suitability for serious open-source projects, because it was already unsuitable.
1654[14:37:28] <whislock> That's a bit of a stretch, but to each their own.
1655[14:38:03] <tarzeau> i like github web interface best. i dislike microsoft, but keep using github.com
1656[14:38:06] <fireba11> hm ... i had to downgrade ghostcript on buster with the older version ... installed manually with dpkg -i, now i'm trying to use apt-mark hold to prevent the package from getting updated again but apt list --upgradeable still shows it?
1657[14:38:27] <BCMM> whislock: the thing is, it's not just a git repo. if it was just a git repo, it could be easily replaced
1660[14:38:40] <fireba11> ah, never mind apt upgrade doesn't actually upgrade it
1661[14:38:40] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1662[14:38:56] <whislock> I have quite easily and repeatedly migrated entire repos to other platforms as needed and lost nothing.
1663[14:39:00] *** Quits: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1664[14:39:01] <BCMM> whislock: but a project that has integrated github's issue tracking etc. in to it's workflow is a project that is now locked-in to a proprietary platform
1668[14:39:38] <whislock> Doesn't seem very locked in to me.
1669[14:40:00] <BCMM> was gonna say, there's a good reason major projects like kde, gnome, debian, etc. go for self-hosted gitlab instances instead
1670[14:40:15] <Bushmills> actually a reason for my question. After creating gitlab account, I am now a bit undecided how to proceed
1671[14:40:35] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1672[14:40:41] <whislock> As long as I can export an entire GitHub project, issues and all, into another platform any time for any reason, "locked in" is an extremely inaccurate descriptor.
1707[14:53:31] <centrix> jelly, I considered it as one way. I used max_filedescriptors parameter of squid.conf. I think I should also consider the file-max (lsof|wc -l) and consider the different to se a reasonable max.
1722[15:03:34] <Akuw> hi, i need some help with a Proliant server boot process
1723[15:06:27] <jelly> Akuw, there are ten generations of proliant servers, state actual model and debian version you're trying to install or boot
1724[15:07:17] <Akuw> Proliant D835 G7 Debian 9
1725[15:08:16] <jelly> Akuw, there's no such thing as Proliant D835 G7
1726[15:08:24] <Akuw> the problem is i can install but when server boot is booting from another place, but i dont know from where, because i delete all partitions, it has 1 small disk and one array
1760[15:19:18] <Bushmills> (for using soft RAID with Linux, consider to use linux multiple devices support. Install mdadm - I think the installer offers installation to md volume already) - Removable flash as in booting from usb stick / thumb drive. Should be irrelevant as long no usb drive inserted.
1814[15:46:42] <jelly> I'm pretty sure there's a way to make usb/sd lesser priority than smartarray but explaining that over irc, on a bios I've never seen in real life would be time consuming
1854[16:07:49] <newtodeb> if a screen session is running on 2 different users (which the root is noone off) can i attach to them from the logged in root user?
1861[16:09:15] <newtodeb> so if the screen session is running on User X i cant attach to it from user Y?
1862[16:09:31] <greycat> Root can chameleon itself as anyone else. Just drop privileges down to the target user account, then run screen -x (or whatever) to attach to that user's screen session.
1872[16:10:39] <newtodeb> just asking because im having trouble executing a screen script to function on my systemuser and my root user
1873[16:10:48] <jelly> so then you have to change permissions and/or ownership to a tty that has processes from different users attached
1874[16:11:04] <greycat> The sockets that you use to actually *talk to* the screen session are in /run/screen/S-username/ and they are strictly permissioned.
1883[16:12:55] <greycat> So if root wants to attach to my screen session(s), it can -- just needs to point to the right places, and the *easiest* way to do that is for root to "become" me first.
1884[16:13:15] <newtodeb> so i just need to add the usergroup from my systemuser?
1885[16:13:16] <greycat> Nobody else is going to have the permissions to do it.
1886[16:13:26] <greycat> newtodeb: what are you *talking* about
1887[16:13:56] <greycat> If you logged in as newt and ran "screen", then you have a screen session, owned by, and running as, user newt.
1888[16:14:32] <greycat> If root wants to connect to that, you login as root, then you do something like "sudo -u newt -s", and then you have a shell running as user newt. That shell will have the privileges and the environment variables and so on, to connect to newt's screen sessions.
1903[16:18:23] <greycat> Root password, or regular user password? Be aware that if you installed a desktop environment and are using a graphical login ("display manager"), root is usually not allowed to run desktop stuff.
1904[16:18:31] <Strum> regular user
1905[16:18:46] <greycat> Check the obvious stuff (typos, caps lock is on, etc.).
1906[16:18:50] <Strum> yep
1907[16:19:00] <Strum> doesn't say wrong password
1908[16:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1556
1909[16:19:13] <Strum> screen goes blank and the login box comes up again
1916[16:20:47] <Mathisen> what would be the smartest way to purge all packets from a 3.rd party repo when you forgot exactly what is installed from that repo
1917[16:20:55] <newtodeb> can someone look over the terrarid script and tell me why it works on my root user but now my systemuser? replaced-url
1918[16:20:59] <greycat> First, figure out what the issue is, which means probably logging in on a console (Ctrl-Alt-F2 or similar) so you can poke around in a shell and find logs with error messages.
1927[16:22:05] <Strum> used non free image to install fom
1928[16:22:09] <Strum> from
1929[16:22:31] <bleach> Strum> I suggest typing ctrl,-alt-F1 (2,3,4, or 5) and try logging in on a tty. If you can login then it is an X-problem, if not then it is a password problem.
1931[16:22:49] <greycat> see if there's a .xsession-errors file in the user's home directory, or whatever the GNOME equivalent of that is, if you're trying to use GNOME,
1932[16:22:58] <greycat> also look for
1933[16:23:01] <greycat> !xorg.0.log
1934[16:23:01] <dpkg> Xorg.0.log is in /var/log/ unless you are on stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead.
1987[16:32:24] <rant> grobi: that script looks broken to me.. it calls a main() function which calls a checkhelp() function which in any case exits the script
1988[16:32:31] <greycat> you can try to reconstruct whatever your .xsession wants to be, but using the start command for xfce4 instead of startkde...
1989[16:32:45] <greycat> (and don't ask me what the start command for xfce is)
1992[16:33:40] <rant> grobi: looks like someone did a lot of work to make a handy script to automate building of a deb package for whatever the hell i3-gaps is, and it is all for nothing cause the script doesnt work
1993[16:33:57] <grobi> rant aha thanks, and i though that i have to move this script into a directory or sth.
1994[16:34:28] <rant> grobi: no, at a glance it looks like if you were to comment out the checkhelp thing in the main() function it would otherwise run as its suppose to though
2002[16:35:09] <Strum> kde is ugly and also bloated
2003[16:35:19] <greycat> Strum: your .xsession overrides the default X session start-up stuff, so if you use a .xsession it's your job to get it working
2004[16:35:35] <Strum> well it was there by default
2005[16:35:39] <rant> grobi: I just glanced at it, didnt really read it all but commenting line 553 would at least make it not exit immediately
2006[16:35:41] <greycat> No, it's not.
2007[16:35:49] <Strum> ah i know what happened
2008[16:35:54] <greycat> You migrated a home directory from your previous system or something.
2009[16:36:08] <Strum> I remounted by rpeviosu /home partition from the slackware install
2010[16:36:12] <greycat> yup
2011[16:36:15] <Strum> snap
2012[16:36:24] <grobi> ok and yes the webside is what i was talking about
2018[16:38:28] <rant> grobi: if it turns out to be useful, I'd contact the creator and point out the fact that they call that checkhelp function and it in all possible paths in the case statement exits the script, making the script effectively do nothing
2025[16:41:12] <grobi> rant: i commented out line 553 with vim with '"' so the rest of that part went purple :|
2026[16:41:37] <rant> grobi: comments in bash are # you just put a # at the beginning of the line
2027[16:41:46] <grobi> ok
2028[16:42:08] <rant> if it never calls the checkhelp to parse the command line options, the script should run as intended
2029[16:42:15] <rant> if it has other errors I can't be certain
2030[16:43:16] <rant> I dont know what i3-gap is, have little to no interest in it and the script is a tl;dr kinda situation.. I just parsed enough to see why it wouldnt do anything at all :P
2031[16:43:25] <grobi> rant: one more question: how to run that script?
2032[16:43:42] <rant> grobi: you'd have to chmod +x first then just ./scriptname
2037[16:44:28] <rant> grobi: for arguments sake, and a disclaimer I wouldnt recommend running a script with such a simple coding error.. who knows what it may muck up
2040[16:44:52] <rant> grobi: but if you're desperate and willing to deal with the consequences.. heh.. go for it.
2041[16:44:56] <greycat> Especially if you're so noob at bash scripts that you don't even know how to run one, and you think " is a comment character.
2042[16:45:03] <rant> heh
2043[16:45:42] <grobi> greycat: you're right i doubt that as well
2044[16:45:52] <rant> they either needed to implement a parameter to actually do the build/install or make *) fallback to continue running the script rather than print the help
2056[16:48:35] <rant> from my glancing it seems like for the most part it does what you'd expect, checks to see git is installed, grabs source, fixes it up with patches, builds a deb package.. but I didnt pay enough attention to see that it does this sanely and properly
2057[16:48:40] <Piraty> airblader is not i3wm upstram grobi
2065[16:50:00] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2066[16:50:16] <rant> I just wouldn't without going through it line by line run that on my machine after seeing such an elementary mistake that renders it totally useless.. there is some demonstration of bash knowledge there.. but with such a simple issue that makes the script do nothing, I have to doubt the credibility of the author
2094[16:57:21] <rant> I still dont understand that whole firewall thing.. my father has gone there twice on business and says he was able to access things the chinese couldnt without issues
2095[16:58:03] <rant> I tried reading up on it and its all vague.. something about even minors are required to get some sort of ID credential for it.. idk
2096[16:58:31] <Bushmills> rant, that would be shellcheck, not checkhelp, I think
2097[16:58:52] <rant> Bushmills: did you read the script?
2117[17:01:41] <Mathisen> what would be the smartest way to purge all packets from a 3.rd party repo when you forgot exactly what is installed from that repo?
2118[17:01:44] <BobBarker> when I try to test my software RAID 1 by pulling a drive, GRUB won't automatically start it and I have to manually run it with mdadm, decrypt the drives and start the volume group.
2119[17:02:03] <rant> grobi: fwiw, greycat is something of a bash expert, wrote the BashFAQ and has a blog on the subject.. if he says its not good, I'd take the advice :P
2120[17:02:05] <BobBarker> even if I run the mdadm, grub won't decrypt the drive properly
2135[17:04:49] <greycat> For some reason I don't completely understand, but which seems to be related to Gentoo Linux, a bunch of people have somehow convinced themselves that you can write ${foo} instead of "$foo" in shell scripts. You can't. They are NOT equivalent.
2137[17:05:04] <rant> output of shellcheck on the script: replaced-url
2138[17:05:18] <greycat> Seeing someone write ${@} instead of "$@", together with all the stuff rant has already pointed out, tells me this script is bad news.
2139[17:05:33] <themill> elios: vrms isn't really a useful tool at the best of times and particularly not in this context
2146[17:06:55] <dpkg> To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
2147[17:07:00] <greycat> Maybe you're looking for that?
2169[17:12:35] <greycat> I have no opinion on what you say on the i3 wiki page, because I don't know anything about i3.
2170[17:13:08] *** Quits: amphiprions (~amphiprio@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2171[17:13:37] <rant> yeah, I don't have any opinion on i3 or this at all either.. I just think that since we're aware of the issue now, and that its our debian wiki pointing to a ghastly script.. we should do /something/ about it :P
2176[17:14:04] <greycat> The lines 306/309 on shellcheck's output are really a bigger problem: the author is trying to store a LIST of filenames in a scalar (string) variable, and then use unquoted variable expansion to pass the filenames as arguments to dpkg. Which will absolutely NOT work if any of the filenames contain whitespace or glob characters, and is conceptually NOT the right way to store and process lists.
2177[17:14:06] * elios uses a towel to gently fan greycat some air.
2178[17:14:24] *** Quits: enri (~bam@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2180[17:14:51] <rant> I personally hate wikis particularly use of the niche markdown.. so I am not real experienced with any sort of ettiquite or such involved with such things.. I was deferring to your expertise
2181[17:15:09] <greycat> I don't know whether this is a bash script or an sh script. If it's a bash script, the correct answer is to store the list in an array. If it's sh, the correct answer is to bash your head against the desk until the pain stops.
2182[17:15:23] <rant> all I know is, I'm all for addressing an issue we spent this long being aware of and making fun of :P
2183[17:15:36] <grobi> guys i have to cook a meal now.. i'm really happy to have asked you fro advise !:) thanks so far
2187[17:19:27] <rant> I just removed the mention of it altogether and put in the comments for the change that its horrendously buggy and thankfully has such a trivial bug that made it exit immediately before causing any harm
2254[17:56:33] <EmleyMoor> How do you configure vino on buster? It has changed radically since stretch, and I need it on my latest machine as it will be mainly remotely controlled.
2283[18:08:53] <Xalys> I'm experiencing dependency hell on Debian 9 and 10. zfs-dkms depends on spl-dkms 0.7.13 but only 0.7.12-2 is available. But, according to replaced-url
2284[18:09:26] <Habbie> that url is not for 9 or 10
2400[18:55:00] <SerajewelKS> i don't suppose this would be an appropriate place to ask for recommendations of reliable 2TB+ external hard drives to be used for backups
2407[18:57:34] <Akuw> i am trying to connect from Windows 10 to Samba Server
2408[18:58:22] <netcrash> Then you need to have a Workgroup defined on the samba server, also you need to specify the access has user in smb.conf and set the user password using smbpasswd -a <user>
2439[19:12:07] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: get something that's got a standard hard drive inside, so you can rip it out of the enclosure when the enclosure electronics dies :)
2445[19:14:13] <BCMM> but they're noted for having quality drives inside. (wd rebranded the stickers on the drives to obfuscate the fact that the drive inside is frequently worth more than the whole unit)
2447[19:15:12] <BCMM> i mean, can't say anything about reliability. but it's a reasonably performant drive, fast usb3 interface, decent build quality, and smartctl worked
2467[19:26:16] <annadane> is it a debian specific thing why fluxbox-update_configs won't work after editing .fluxbox/keys or is this common knowledge and i'm just doing it wrong?
2471[19:28:28] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: yeah i use internal wd red drives
2472[19:28:45] <lucyl> Hi all, trying to update Debian Lenny (Wii hardware, can't upgrade). Can gpg checks be disabled ? Can't run apt-get update due to KEYEXPIRED
2514[19:47:01] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See replaced-url
2515[19:47:02] <lineageosfan> After those 3 lines I get: Reading package lists... DoneE: The value 'stretch-backports' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
2516[19:47:18] <greycat> Do they fail because you didn't add stretch-backports to your sources, or because something in the packages is actually broken?
2527[19:51:28] <lineageosfan> I added it to sources list and then did an update. However, afte trying to install I get: E: The value 'stretch-backports' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
2529[19:51:59] <Crapoto> Hello guys. I'm installing Debian on an old eeepc, i want to try the LXQt desktop environement, should i also install the "Debian desktop environement" as proposed by the setup ? (Default was Debian DE checked and XFCE4 checked also)
2538[19:53:41] <karlpinc> lineageosfan: You could pastebin your sources.list and we can check it.
2539[19:53:47] <Crapoto> Thank you guys :) If i install XFCE4 and LXQt, i suppose i will be able to switch from one to another from the login screen ? Except hard disk space, does this solution impact the ram and CPU usage ?
2553[19:55:34] <dpkg> lineageosfan: I wish you would RTFM.
2554[19:55:46] <karlpinc> lineageosfan: dpkg is a bot
2555[19:56:17] <dvs> lineageosfan, why are you using buster-backports for stretch?
2556[19:56:17] <lineageosfan> karlpinc: Thx. I understand: replaced-url
2557[19:56:30] <lineageosfan> ups
2558[19:56:48] <greycat> probably the same reason he asked us where to paste it, two beings told him paste.debian.net, and then he went and used pastebin.com
2559[19:57:06] <lineageosfan> Sorry, I am not an expert
2561[19:57:41] <lineageosfan> changed it to strech and will try again. thx for the hint
2562[19:58:16] <lineageosfan> Now I get: W: The repository 'replaced-url
2563[19:58:37] <dvs> lineageosfan, did you "apt update" first?
2564[19:58:46] <lineageosfan> yes, I did
2565[19:58:51] <lineageosfan> that is where I get the error
2566[19:59:35] <lineageosfan> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details.
2567[19:59:35] <dvs> lineageosfan, do you have any files in you /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory?
2578[20:01:33] <greycat> if you're putting the stretch-backports line(s) in /etc/apt/sources.list then you probably want to REMOVE /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list
2579[20:01:56] <greycat> In either case, you want to pick one or the other.
2580[20:02:15] <dvs> and I suspect there's something wrong with the latter
2581[20:02:38] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: 3.5" though right? most of the WD external drives i see are clearly 2.5" form factor.
2582[20:02:56] <humpled> do you have the necessary for apt over https though?
2583[20:03:00] <lineageosfan> dvs: I removed the stretch-backports.list file
2584[20:03:04] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: oh yeah, the mybook is a full-size thing
2585[20:03:04] <lineageosfan> Will try again now.
2586[20:03:33] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: iirc originally the white label drives were wd reds without the branding (or warranty). mine appears to be an ultrastar!
2587[20:03:38] <lineageosfan> dvs: better, seems to install alright now
2588[20:03:40] <lineageosfan> thx
2589[20:03:43] <dvs> np
2590[20:03:59] <BCMM> He ultrastar, i mean
2591[20:04:20] *** JakeSays_ is now known as JakeSays
2592[20:05:11] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: the mybook is more expensive than the same capacity wd red :(
2593[20:05:26] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: when i got mine, it was a pretty good discount
2601[20:06:38] <DammitJim> do you guys know how I can troubleshoot my buster system where if I'm in the office and I'm on ethernet or wifi, network connectivity works, but when I get home, my machine associates to my WiFi and I get an IP address, but the DNS client doesn't work... I think it's because /etc/resolv.conf still has the DNS servers from my office
2602[20:06:46] <DammitJim> I installed connman on my system
2611[20:11:10] <Bushmills> a thing to consider could be to install a recursive nameserver locally on your machine, which it then can always use to resolve hostnames. A program like unbound is a good candiate
2612[20:11:38] <greycat> It'll depend on what kind of insane networks your laptop has to connect to.
2613[20:12:12] <Bushmills> right, knowledge of the resp. environment helps there
2617[20:12:57] <greycat> A regular recursive resolver will simply try to connect directly to the root nameservers and then the .COM nameservers and so on. On some captive or restricted networks, you might have to go through the DNS nameservers provided on the network BY the network admin.
2621[20:14:05] <greycat> Just yesterday, I got yet another email from one of the network admins here griping that one of my unix servers is sending DNS traffic without going through THEIR resolvers. I haven't heard the last of this discussion, I'm sure.
2627[20:15:54] <Bushmills> so that policy is enforced by complaining?
2628[20:15:54] <greycat> I think the immediate goal is for them to return erroneous results for certain blacklisted domains, to prevent Windows PCs from being infected.
2629[20:16:20] *** Quits: f476_ (~pi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2631[20:16:55] <Bushmills> reminds me of a security "solution" in a showroom on a computer with a sign "don't touch" - I asked whether that sign was part of the security solution.
2632[20:17:06] <greycat> Bushmills: still waiting to hear the next chapter. Right now all I said was "yes, that's mine".
2681[20:56:42] <coregrl> hi I'm trying to use debian 10 on an ancient notebook, debian 9 works perfectly, debian 10 freezes using lightdm, if I startx manually it works, how can I understand what's wrong?
2682[20:57:27] <greycat> look for .xsession-errors in the user's home directory, or the Xorg.0.log file in the user's home directory or in /var/log
2683[20:58:01] <greycat> I'm assuming it's X because lightdm isn't gdm3 but I can't even be sure whether you're using X, or Wayland.
2709[21:05:08] *** Guest27028 is now known as janie_lane
2710[21:05:16] <coregrl> and then logging in console, i run startx and it works
2711[21:05:26] <greycat> coregrl: so now are you saying that startx gives a "CLUNK" and does not work? Or did you mean that lightdm itself gives a "CLUNK" and does not work, even before you try to login? Or is the CLUNK after you login?
2712[21:06:11] <greycat> coregrl: the objective at this point is to identify EXACTLY what causes the failure, and then find some log files that have error messages created during that failure
2713[21:06:13] *** Quits: fl3x1t (~fl3x1t@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2719[21:07:13] <coregrl> well if i boot debian normally it tries to start lightdm i hear the disk working, then i hear a strange rumor everything hangs and I need to press power button for 5 secs, if I bootin recovery mode after the ctrl-d message i put root password and then I run startx, it works
2720[21:08:17] <alkisg> Do you `startx` as user or as root?
2721[21:08:39] <greycat> After the failure, after the power cycle, after you boot in recovery mode, INSTEAD of running startx and wiping out the trail, just look for the log files immediately.
2722[21:09:00] <coregrl> alkisg: it says amd/ati rv250/m9 gl, 1002:4c66
2723[21:09:04] <greycat> !xorg.0.log
2724[21:09:04] <dpkg> Xorg.0.log is in /var/log/ unless you are on stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead.
2725[21:09:09] <greycat> or ~/.xsession-errors
2726[21:09:10] <greycat> or both
2727[21:09:27] <coregrl> ok let me clean and retry
2732[21:13:55] <coregrl> i deleted Xorg.log before the "normal" boot and was not recreated
2733[21:13:57] <Bushmills> coregrl: is it essential for you to have a graphical login dialog?
2734[21:14:04] <greycat> OK, for now, just disable lightdm entirely. Either remove the lightdm package, or use "systemctl set-default multi-user.target"
2736[21:15:12] <coregrl> greycat: i done the last one
2737[21:15:34] <coregrl> Bushmills:yes is not for me but for a friend
2738[21:15:44] <greycat> ...
2739[21:15:54] <Bushmills> in that case, maybe a "dummy" display manager like nodm could suit you or him. boots into graphical desktop no question asked
2740[21:15:59] *** Joins: user (~user@replaced-ip)
2741[21:16:12] <alkisg> I think I've seen some graphics card that don't support kms, having trouble running xorg as non-root...
2796[21:37:58] <greycat> If you have a second Debian system, you can verify that the Samba on Debian1 is working by using smbclient -L Debian1 -U yourusername
2797[21:38:19] <greycat> Where "yourusername" is one that you used smbpasswd to create.
2810[21:41:31] <greycat> Akuw: OK, good. Now, what is the client that produces the error, and what is the EXACT sequence of steps you're doing on the client to produce the error?
2811[21:41:51] <dvs> DammitJim, Do you even get a WiFi connection at home? Can you ping your router via IP address?
2812[21:42:36] <DammitJim> dvs, I get an IP address
2813[21:42:47] <DammitJim> but if I do a dnslookup, I can see it's trying to use the DNS servers from my office
2814[21:43:18] <dvs> DammitJim, do you can an IP address using DHCP at home?
2815[21:43:37] <DammitJim> yes, I get an IP address at home
2835[21:46:29] <greycat> Akuw: does it work if you use a hostname instead of an IP address? It's funny, because just last week we had a Windows 10 PC trying to mount one of our Samba shares, and using the hostname failed but using the IP address worked.
2877[22:03:05] <dvs> DammitJim, you only have one entry in there and it looks like it's the ethernet one. Are you using another manager to handle the WiFi connection?
2896[22:09:34] <developer_su> Hi! I'm stuck trying to upgrade zfs-dkms @ stretch. System doesn't do enything and only message I see is 'Building initial module for 4.9.0-8-amd64'. Could you please tell me where should I look for verbose information?
2901[22:13:18] <developer_su> Ok, really sorry for bothering you guys.. It seems like a just really slow installation process. I finally see new lines in console ^-^
2908[22:21:18] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
2909[22:22:09] <karlpinc> developer_su: You can open up another virtual terminal and use commands like "top" or "ps" to see what is happening.
2910[22:22:13] <karlpinc> !vt
2911[22:22:13] <dpkg> i guess vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>.
2912[22:22:45] <developer_su> karlpinc: yeah.. it's installed as expected.
2916[22:25:26] <karlpinc> developer_su: (That was more of an FYI for the future.)
2917[22:25:37] *** Quits: horribleprogram (~horriblep@replaced-ip) (Quit: Where I came from the Great Wild 'n shit, where you can get shot if you crack smiles and shit...)
2918[22:25:48] <janie_lane> what pastebin service is preferred in channel ?
3019[22:53:23] <towo`> janie_lane, normaly dmesg should show [Di Aug 6 11:00:28 2019] amdgpu 0000:08:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware amdgpu/polaris10_vce.bin or the fail
3033[22:59:18] <judd> [1002:67df] is 'Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X/590]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'amdgpu' in stretch. See also replaced-url
3034[23:00:25] <jhutchins_wk> !radeon
3035[23:00:25] <dpkg> Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by AMD/ATI (replaced-url
3036[23:00:45] <jhutchins_wk> !radeon firmware
3037[23:00:45] <dpkg> Binary-only firmware for the radeon <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-linux-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance in the <radeon> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. This is not required for use of the <fglrx> driver.
3064[23:14:00] <janie_lane> after removing firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-amd-graphics i get exactly same dmesg info
3065[23:14:02] <martinm> So now that I'm moving to Buster, along with other long outdated dust I'm trying to shake off, the one I need help with is Python v.2. Is it practical to change the alternatives to just make python3.7 the default for the python alias, or are there still important bits of Debian that rely on that calling up 2.7? I've been googling for info, but it keeps finding Debian docs that are 3+ years old and of no help to me. :-(
3083[23:21:44] <CaptainDusty> martinm: This is why dependency and package managers exist. There's clean functions to remove packages that are no longer required.
3084[23:21:57] <martinm> hah! thanks, for some reason that didn't occur to me tarzeau. Oops, apt and dragons and pain, oh my!
3085[23:22:02] <humbot> what is the point of changing the default? if you want python3 just call it?
3086[23:22:12] <jmcnaught> ^
3087[23:22:46] <CaptainDusty> humbot: It's one less keystroke.
3088[23:22:54] <martinm> well, this was upgraded from 9, so I was wistfully thinking that maybe it wasn't really needed
3094[23:25:17] <jelly> that's about when upstream hopes to drop it as well
3095[23:25:59] <martinm> humbot, thanks, but a shell alias would actually make things worse, eg., I'd forget that modern Django isn't py2 tolerant any longer. Until it failed to restart the server or some such.
3096[23:26:47] <jelly> either venv or virtualenv are your friends?
3097[23:26:49] <martinm> okay, I'll forget about making it simple. venv isn't really much better, guess I just have to patch some she-bang lines
3102[23:28:11] <jhutchins_wk> martinm: Does django/python not have the ability to get it's code path from an environment variable or switch, like java and oracle do?
3105[23:28:36] <dpkg> Python is a very nice scripting language, easy to learn and still quite powerful and elegant if you know how to use it. See replaced-url
3106[23:29:02] <jhutchins_wk> !python 3
3107[23:29:02] <dpkg> Python 3 is available in the python3 package and installs /usr/bin/python3 for you. Don't be tempted to change the symlink for /usr/bin/python to point to a Python 3 interpreter as that is supposed to be for Python 2 and lots of things will break if you change it. If you want Python 3, invoke 'python3'; explicit is better than implicit!
3112[23:30:32] <martinm> jhutchins_wk: thanks, but I've been using Python in (mostly) Debian setting since Py1.5 IIRC. And I've been bemoaning Python's lack of clue about versioning almost as long. You'd think I'd be used to it by now :-/
3118[23:31:48] <CaptainDusty> humbot: You raise a valid alias - but update alternatives exists for a reason :P I've certainly ran into the exact same issue before, though I forget what I was attempting to achieve.
3119[23:32:02] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3120[23:32:12] <martinm> Okay, thanks all! Back to plan, this was B, C was deprecated already... D? :-)