Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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12[00:08:43] <mrjpaxton> Question: How would I report an out of date Debian package? (I'm also asking for Unstable in #debian-next, but haven't gotten a response back yet.)
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16[00:10:00] <Bushmills> "out of date" in buster?
17[00:10:39] <saptech> mrjpaxton, just a thought. mailing list, email the maintainer etc
18[00:10:46] <dvs> mrjpaxton, raise a ticket for that package?
19[00:10:57] <saptech> yea, bugzilla
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23[00:13:47] <mrjpaxton> Okay. Yeah, it's for telegram-desktop. There's quite a bit of features that are unsupported. Thing is, I've tried out the Flatpak version of it, but the problem is that it freezes when opening a file, so I've filed a bug on Github for that one, too.
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28[00:15:53] <saptech> check bugzilla, maybe a ticket has already been done with ideas
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30[00:17:01] <Bushmills> buster to sid all have same version of telegram-desktop
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32[00:18:12] <Bushmills> there's 1.7 which has been uploaded to experimental - but don't hold your breath until that trickles down
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35[00:18:49] <Bushmills> (if it ever will)
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38[00:19:57] <Bushmills> (means: not much use reporting that)
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43[00:23:25] <mrjpaxton> Okay... Well I sent an E-mail to the maintainer asking about it, anyway.
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91[00:44:32] <rebellion47> test
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319[03:00:48] <kiwi_36> guys why am i getting "-bash: cannot create temp file for here-document: No space left on device"?
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321[03:01:33] <rant> kiwi_36: probably because you cannot create a temp file for a heredoc because there is no space left on the device
322[03:02:02] <kiwi_36> rant: how can i figure out what's using all this space?
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324[03:03:16] <rant> kiwi_36: well, first check the output of df -Th and verify.. chances are your rootfs is full
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327[03:03:56] <kiwi_36> rant: it says /dev/vda1 is 100%
328[03:04:13] <rant> kiwi_36: and that is the rootfs?
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330[03:04:20] <kiwi_36> yeah
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332[03:04:39] <kiwi_36> i.e. "/"
333[03:04:48] <rant> kiwi_36: and do you have other filesystems like /var or /usr?
334[03:06:19] <rant> kiwi_36: what is the size of this filesystem?
335[03:06:39] <kiwi_36> it says /usr is 11GB, and /var is 27GB
336[03:06:40] <kiwi_36> even though / is 12GB
337[03:07:10] <kiwi_36> should be 12GB
338[03:07:32] <kiwi_36> rant: oh let me restate that, i think /var is actually 5G
339[03:07:40] <rant> I am not sure if you answered my questions or not
340[03:07:52] <kiwi_36> i ran it a second time with "sudo du -sh /var", and that gave me 27G
341[03:07:53] <rant> I am asking you if everything is all on the rootfs or if you have seperate filesystems
342[03:08:40] <kiwi_36> rant: everything is in vda1 (part /)
343[03:08:54] <rant> normally I'd recommend ncdu or baobab but I can't do that in this case cause your fs is already full and you can't install anything
344[03:08:54] <kiwi_36> (not totally sure what you're asking)
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346[03:09:26] <rant> I am trying to gather the nature of your situation..
347[03:09:42] <kiwi_36> rant: yeah i get "no space left on device" when i try to install ncdu
348[03:09:45] <rant> it is possible to make other filesystems and mount them onto the rootfs
349[03:10:08] <wuseman> Maybe you can wipe /home/user/.cache or /tmp to get some freespace
350[03:10:12] <rant> if for example you had a vda2 mounted on /var then the size of /var is irrelevant to the rootfs being full cause /var isn't part of the rootfs
351[03:10:21] <themill> kiwi_36: do you have a separate /home too there?
352[03:10:40] <rant> we cant know what to investigate if we don't know what all is on the rootfs and what its overall size is
353[03:10:49] <themill> (a pastebin of "df -h" would be useful to see)
354[03:11:17] <rant> if "everything" is on rootfs and its only 12GB you quite simply need to redo the whole system.. cause you just simply did not allocate enough space
355[03:11:25] <kiwi_36> i have a "debian" user in /home
356[03:11:29] <kiwi_36> 3.2G
357[03:11:52] <themill> kiwi_36: no-one is asking about du, it would be better to see "df -h"
358[03:12:00] <rant> kiwi_36: df -Th | nc termbin.com 9999
359[03:12:53] <kiwi_36> replaced-url
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361[03:13:29] <themill> that is not at all consistent with the info you previously provided
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363[03:14:06] <rant> kiwi_36: you simply do not have enough space on this system.. check /var/cache
364[03:14:27] <kiwi_36> sorry my filesystem knowledge is very basic, it's a bit confusing
365[03:14:48] <rant> kiwi_36: is this a desktop system with a GUI?
366[03:14:58] <kiwi_36> rant: nope, it's an openstack instance
367[03:15:10] <rant> ah..
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370[03:17:14] <rant> well that changes things a bit.. a desktop install would take 3-6GB and need twice that just to have enough space to do a dist-upgrade. but for a basic server type system or something for a specific purpose you can probably get away with a 12GB rootfs
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372[03:18:16] <rant> kiwi_36: we do still have problems with the info you've provided, /usr cannot be 11GB and /var 5GB if they are both on the rootfs which is only 12GB
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375[03:18:40] <kiwi_36> yeah i think i maybe was using the wrong command to get those values
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377[03:18:48] <rant> and /usr should not be 11GB nearly 100% of the rootfs on its own if you have no X or Desktop Environment
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379[03:19:52] <themill> .o0( looking at different machines, perhaps )
380[03:20:19] <kiwi_36> definitely ran those commands on my vm
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382[03:20:29] <kiwi_36> does du -sh give directory size?
383[03:20:40] <rant> yeah, I'm not familiar with what exactly openstack is.. there are so damn many similar technologies now I'm not very familiar with them
384[03:20:51] <rant> but does seem like you're confusing output
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389[03:22:25] <kiwi_36> ok let me update my values: ~ = 3.2G, /var = 5.5G, /usr = 1.5G
390[03:22:31] <kiwi_36> these are du -sh values
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394[03:25:01] <Church-> So question, do I need to use apt-daily or can I just set a cron/timer to call unattended-upgrades at a certain time? And secondally is there an easy way to validate it's completed running?
395[03:25:53] <rant> kiwi_36: do you have the nc command? netcat?
396[03:26:21] <kiwi_36> rant: not installed unfortunately
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398[03:26:27] <kiwi_36> maybe i can free up some space
399[03:26:53] <rant> kiwi_36: thats ok, do you have sudo configured to allow you to run commands as root?
400[03:27:00] <kiwi_36> yeah
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402[03:27:18] <rant> kiwi_36: do you have to type a password each time?
403[03:27:38] <kiwi_36> nope, using ssh
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406[03:27:57] <rant> for i in /*/; do sudo du -sh "$i"; done
407[03:28:08] <rant> paste that on paste.debian.net
408[03:28:40] <rant> if you have to type the password each time you run sudo, you'll need to sudo -v first to avoide typing your password on each iteration of the loop
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411[03:30:40] <rant> kiwi_36: /var/ and ~/ seem to be where your disk space are, which is common
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413[03:31:01] <kiwi_36> rant: replaced-url
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416[03:31:44] <rant> kiwi_36: what is this vm used for?
417[03:31:56] <kiwi_36> running a small chat application
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419[03:32:01] <kiwi_36> but it makes daily backups
420[03:32:13] <rant> kiwi_36: do /home/ ?
421[03:32:23] <rant> kiwi_36: erm, to /home ? the backups?
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423[03:32:49] <kiwi_36> yeah to /home, but i cleaned up my backups directory a week or so ago, so now it's very small
424[03:33:00] <rant> cause I see no reason for the 3GB or more on /home, thats a bit ridiculous.. but if you're backing up there, that makes sense
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426[03:33:18] <kiwi_36> rant: ~/backups is 300M
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429[03:33:55] <rant> kiwi_36: well then that is one problem, you got something possibly logs that are insanely huge in /home/
430[03:34:05] <rant> kiwi_36: sudo du -sh /var/*/ should narrow down the other issue
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433[03:35:05] <rant> sounds to me like this small chat application is buggy or misconfigured cause no "small application" should've ran away and filled a 12GB volume
434[03:36:04] <kiwi_36> yeah i properly need to comb through each directory and see what's taking up all this space
435[03:36:35] <rant> you got about 2.5GB in /home/ unaccounted for and /var is probably 4-5GB larger than it should be
436[03:37:18] <rant> I'd check /var/cache, /var/cache/apt/, and /var/log/ first
437[03:37:29] <rant> downloaded packages sit in /var/cache/apt/archives
438[03:37:51] <rant> they aren't needed and can be removed manually or with an apt clean or apt-get clean
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440[03:38:33] <kiwi_36> rant: ah.....
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442[03:38:38] <kiwi_36> lol /var/log is 5.2G
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444[03:38:40] <rant> I have a full desktop install and my entire /var is only 1.7GB
445[03:39:01] <rant> yes you have a buggy or misconfigured piece of software that filled your system with logs it would seem
446[03:39:15] <kiwi_36> i remember now, i found this last week, totally forgot about /var/log
447[03:39:18] <abrotman> or an actual problem being logged
448[03:39:24] <kiwi_36> can i remove /var/log?
449[03:39:28] <kiwi_36> or clear it?
450[03:39:30] <rant> abrotman: out of space on / :D
451[03:40:10] <rant> kiwi_36: you /can/ but as abrotman says, you might want to figure out what the problem was that something felt the need to log 5GB worth of info on
452[03:40:28] <rant> to do that, you gotta have a look at the logs
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456[03:43:45] <kiwi_36> rant: doing that now, seems like it's an error with my application
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458[03:44:17] <kiwi_36> but at least i know what's causing all my space to be used up, so thanks for helping me figure that out ;)
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568[04:55:04] <jim> SerajewelKS, hi... are you around?
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573[04:58:33] <rant> jim: my buffer shows you were conversating around this time yesterday and were told that they are a sysadmin on east coast, and would most likely be active during normal business hours.. this however is not a social channel, if you have an issue you can just ask a question and keep personal contact in personal messages or social channels
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576[04:59:05] <rant> its 11pm on the east coast, its not during normal business hours
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578[04:59:31] <rant> its during the time people working normal hours would be asleep or heading to bed
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591[05:07:10] <jim> rant, ok. I am given to understand that some sound card hardware has those 3.5mm sockets that flip a bit somewhere when something's connected to them... I'm looking to find out how to read those bits
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594[05:08:08] <rant> jim: well the jack is physically a switch.. the part that connects to the tip of the jack is pushed back when its inserted and when that happens it moves off one contact onto another
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597[05:08:40] <rant> jim: so it's not like its a software thing you can control.. its a physical switch
598[05:08:52] <jim> understood. can the driver read that?
599[05:09:10] <jim> I didn't ask to control it, just to read it
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601[05:09:30] <k_sze> Is it possible that the version of binutils in Debian Buster is still affected by this bug? replaced-url
602[05:09:45] <rant> hmm.. well I suppose it could, but I guess it would depend on the hardware
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604[05:10:33] <rant> cause on some machines jacks are also multi-function.. my laptop only has one.. and its both input and output.. but doesn't switch between the two, it just supports jacks with 3 and 4 contacts
605[05:10:55] <rant> i.e. can't be just a microphone port.. has to be a headset with mic
606[05:12:18] <jim> so, the #alsa folks have a script that collects data about the system it's run on, including those bits... when I present the output of that script on a pastebin, some folks were able to read that listing and determine where I had my headphone plug connected
607[05:12:32] <jim> so it's not just a theory, it's fact
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609[05:13:32] <rant> yes, things like the alsa utils show if something is plugged in on most hardware so I guess its doable
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611[05:15:19] <rant> jim: bottom line for here is, this is not a debian support question.. its kernel/alsa development related.. if you have a legit concern, try lkml, or alsa channels
612[05:15:36] <jim> SerajewelKS has demonstrated pretty extensive knowledge about the sound driver, and has been helping me get through this
613[05:15:46] *** eb0t_ is now known as eb0t
614[05:16:13] <rant> yeah well, you can't use this channel for that.. if someone /wanted/ to make themselves available to milk their knowledge they'd give you a means to do so..
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618[05:16:43] <rant> for more in depth development type things you serve yourself and everyone else best if you use a development channel or mailing list
619[05:16:55] <rant> more detailed stuff is much better done on mailing lists anyhow
620[05:16:56] <jim> you were not part of that conversation, so I guess you don't have that information
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623[05:17:19] <rant> I have the most recent stuff.. I dont keep logs but I have a buffer, and saw the last night's conversation
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625[05:17:40] <rant> and the channel /is/ pubilically logged if need be
626[05:17:47] <rant> dpkg, logs?
627[05:17:47] <dpkg> Logs are what you should always check when you have a problem, they live in /var/log/ . For #debian logs, ask me about <irclog>.
628[05:17:55] <rant> dpkg, irclog?
629[05:17:55] <dpkg> from memory, irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at replaced-url
630[05:18:51] <rant> thats my point, things where anyone would have to have seen old convo and use extensive knowledge is beyond the scope of this channel
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633[05:20:21] <jim> maybe you should just /ignore me and you'll never be bothered with this again
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637[05:23:35] <jim> I'm getting support for software that is distributed by debian, so in my view it's legit
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655[05:37:49] <rant> yes, I know you view it that way, and I'm trying to tell you its not helping you or anyone else. I've been here decades and never ignored anyone, I'm not gonna start now. Folks sit here expecting when they see activity in this channel for it to be a question they can weigh in on.. so having things outside the scope not only lessens the ability to support more apropo questions, but its not getting you the
656[05:37:55] <rant> help you need and in a timely fashion
657[05:38:08] <rant> mailing lists are surprisingly quick in response and reach a wider more advanced audience..
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659[05:40:01] <rant> replaced-url
660[05:40:40] <rant> your line of questioning is hardware/kernel/alsa related, it is not debian user related in even the most remote sense as you asked no question related to debian use of such things
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686[05:59:16] <petn-randall> rant: If they run Debian, users are free to ask whatever they want about their system in this channel. This includes the Linux kernel and alsa stack provided by Debian.
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690[06:00:59] <rant> I am not questioning their freedom to do so, I am saying that trying to milk individual users via this channel even when they're not active and not asking specific questions but wanting to carry on in depth development debates are better suited for other means
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692[06:03:13] <jim> all I said was "are you here"
693[06:03:40] <jim> what is it you're trying to protect?
694[06:03:45] <rant> I'm not trying to argue here.. I'm just trying to tell you how to get better served without developing potentially disruptive habits
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697[06:04:22] <rant> you could've sent a private message for that, and you can contact developers who can carry on the kinds of detailed conversations you are looking for
698[06:04:32] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
699[06:04:43] <rant> most of them prefer to do so on mailing lists at their leisure
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701[06:05:08] <ZaZaGX> hello
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704[06:06:10] <jim> I'd advance that (a) my habits are my business, and (b) habits that have not formed yet are vaporware. having said that, thanks for suggesting ways that would better serve me
705[06:06:13] <nefsation> hi there
706[06:06:23] <jim> ZaZaGX, hi
707[06:06:36] <ZaZaGX> i just got the debian 10 to work on my laptop
708[06:06:41] <jim> nefsation, hi too
709[06:06:50] <ZaZaGX> it took like gave up like 3 times lol
710[06:06:53] <jim> ZaZaGX, works good?
711[06:07:01] <nefsation> im having some trouble after upgrading my home server to buster
712[06:07:25] <nefsation> ill be really happy if someone points me in the right direction
713[06:07:35] <jim> nefsation, ok, tell us (in some detail) what the trouble is
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715[06:07:52] <nefsation> 0k
716[06:08:19] <nefsation> i had owncloud running very well until updated the server
717[06:08:33] <jim> "some trouble", so multiple issues?
718[06:08:44] <nefsation> now occ tells me that php7.3 isnt supported for this usage
719[06:09:12] <nefsation> i tried many ways to downgrade all php packages but no luck
720[06:09:32] <nefsation> @jim yeah, kind of
721[06:09:41] <jim> nefsation, just to make sure... you're not coding in php... are you?
722[06:09:48] <nefsation> nope
723[06:10:02] <nefsation> just running deluge web and owncloud
724[06:10:14] <jim> ok, so you just want the thing to work, no matter which php is installed
725[06:10:20] <nefsation> yeah
726[06:10:23] <ZaZaGX> yeah, it works better than Ubuntu 19.04
727[06:10:34] <ZaZaGX> its more faster and stable
728[06:11:08] <jim> ZaZaGX, I happened to notice it runs faster, after installing both
729[06:11:10] <nefsation> but the thing is, cant install any other version correctly but 7.3
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731[06:12:04] <nefsation> i chose fedora for my laptop, cinnamon desktop works great
732[06:12:10] <jim> hmm. what I'm wondering is why it's claiming that 7.3 is not supported "for this usage"
733[06:12:40] <nefsation> owncloud doesnt support any php version above 7.2
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735[06:13:19] <jim> ohh, it's owncloud that doesn't support 7.3?
736[06:13:26] <nefsation> ill be afk for a minute, brb
737[06:13:28] <nefsation> yeah
738[06:13:48] <nefsation> cant downgrade packages
739[06:14:04] <jim> ok... do you have a backup?
740[06:14:05] <ZaZaGX> jim, oh yeah. well, i have used Ubuntu for years now. it seems like Debian did a good job with buster release
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743[06:15:51] <nefsation> i can make one for the db, thats the unwanted option
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745[06:16:45] <jim> nefsation, so you see that's a conflict... debian won't let you downgrade while owncloud won't let you upgrade... I'd say that (while debian has many positive attributes) debian is presently not a good choice for this particular application
746[06:18:06] <jim> it's unfortunate that you don't have a complete filesystem backup, maybe if you did, you could restore from it
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748[06:19:35] <jim> nefsation, or rather, it's either debian that's not appropriate, or it's owncloud that's not appropriate... your choice :)
749[06:20:08] <nefsation_> well
750[06:20:19] <nefsation_> everything went well untill update
751[06:20:47] <nefsation_> so in my opinion its me the one conflicting with themself
752[06:20:51] *** Quits: nefsation (~nefsation@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
753[06:21:06] <jim> I'll also note in passing that php has a history of not being developed in a stable way... also a history of invalidating millions of lines of code on a periodic basis
754[06:21:28] <nefsation_> so im not the first
755[06:21:33] <nefsation_> hahaha
756[06:21:37] <jim> no, of course not
757[06:23:06] <nefsation_> ill laugh because irony
758[06:23:33] <jim> (in comparison, other languages are not so unstable, including in their development... in particular an old language, TCL, has developers that are extremely careful to not invalidate any code
759[06:23:51] <nefsation_> mmmm
760[06:24:03] <jim> and they've been very successful at it. so php and tgheir developers don't have an excuse for this
761[06:24:17] <nefsation_> is there any other option? like other private cloud solution
762[06:24:17] <Deihmos> is there a way to get the network connection speed on a headless debian server?
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764[06:24:43] <Deihmos> on windows i can see if i cam connected 100 Mbps or 1Gbps. Is there a way to see it on debian?
765[06:24:50] <Deihmos> couldn't find anything online
766[06:25:04] <jim> I guess you'd have to measure the speed of a known-size file transfer?
767[06:25:12] <nefsation_> <Deihmos> you mean negotiated bit rate?
768[06:26:09] <nefsation_> use ethtool
769[06:26:29] <BazookaTooth> Deihmos: iftop, slurm, darkstat, plenty of others i am forgetting
770[06:27:19] <BazookaTooth> the actuall connection would be something else. hence nefsation_'s question
771[06:27:22] <nefsation_> <BazookaTooth> ntop iftop and others, but ethtool does exactly that
772[06:27:32] <Deihmos> ok. I guess there isn't anything that is already built in
773[06:28:02] <BazookaTooth> nefsation_: you had already mentioned it tho :)
774[06:28:02] <nefsation_> youre an apt command away from getting that package
775[06:28:03] *** Quits: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
776[06:28:22] <rant> <nefsation_> doing this will lead people to think you are quoting them
777[06:28:39] <nefsation_> rant sorry
778[06:28:51] <nefsation_> im not used to irc yet
779[06:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1500
780[06:29:13] <rant> nefsation_: no worries, just letting you know.. highlighting is best done with the nick at the beginning of the line without the < and with a single delimiter like a , or :
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783[06:29:40] <BazookaTooth> well arch had some clown using colors earlier so.. no biggie
784[06:29:46] <nefsation_> rant : thanks for the advice
785[06:29:46] <jim> nefsation_, like this <----
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787[06:30:02] <jim> with a comma or a colon
788[06:30:25] <nefsation_> jim, its allways a pleasure to learn
789[06:30:28] <BazookaTooth> gotta bring back that efnet mirc look
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791[06:30:46] <rant> nefsation_: most clients do it automatically with tab completion, I just type ne and press tab and it does it automatically for me
792[06:31:23] <nefsation_> im using hexchat for the first time in a long time
793[06:31:32] <BazookaTooth> :)
794[06:32:33] <nefsation_> well, anyone knows a good way to backup files from db? mysql
795[06:32:49] <rant> you should export them first
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797[06:33:12] <Deihmos> anyone did a backup using acronis?
798[06:33:38] <Deihmos> i normally use clonezilla but not being able to mount an image isn't good
799[06:33:41] <rant> I'm no SQL/DB expert but I do know that you should always export the files first as I've worked on situations where people just copied the files then tried using them on a different db version and it didnt work
800[06:33:57] <rant> exporting makes files capable of being properly imported on other db versions
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803[06:34:45] <rant> ,popcon acronis
804[06:34:46] <judd> No package named 'acronis' was found.
805[06:35:14] <Deihmos> acronis true image. it can be used from bood to create an image
806[06:35:58] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
807[06:37:48] <rant> Deihmos: yeah, not seeing anything like that in debian.. you could make this relevant by asking something like "How can I foo in Debian so I can bar and baz?"
808[06:37:50] <nefsation_> rant, 0k ill read about it. Hence im the only admin here i dont think it would be a problem. less than 1gb or so
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811[06:39:03] <rant> nefsation_: yeah well I'm strongly advising this.. there many other reasons I cant accurately articulate why you want to export the DB and import it back rather than just backup the files
812[06:39:23] <nefsation_> well
813[06:39:31] <rant> I can't because I'm not that knowledgeable about DB as I avoid them whenever possible, I prefer to use sqlite as its simpler :P
814[06:39:36] <nefsation_> actually i just want the files back
815[06:40:03] <nefsation_> saw phpmyadmin for that purpose
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818[06:40:32] <rant> heh, I personally would never see adding PHP into an equation as a simplification :P
819[06:41:09] <nefsation_> i think i dont have that option at this time
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825[06:45:02] <kreyren> which package provides XDG_RUNTIME_DIR on debian?
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827[06:46:55] <nefsation_> just for the record. on debian 10, adminer is the way to backup mysql db.
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830[06:48:56] <jim> nefsation_, some dbs have a command that reads everything in the database and produces an sql listing, which when run on an empty database, loads the database with the earlier content
831[06:49:00] <kreyren> nwm it's debian-next issue with openrc
832[06:49:03] <alkisg> kreyren: systemd-logind?
833[06:49:26] <kreyren> alkisg, nah systemd-pam apparently based on replaced-url
834[06:49:31] <nefsation_> jim, ill look into it
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837[06:51:15] <alkisg> kreyren: yeah, systemd-pam is part of systemd-logind
838[06:51:20] <jim> nefsation_, take a look at this: replaced-url
839[06:51:40] <kreyren> alkisg, i see what is the alternative for openrc for this?
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841[06:51:42] <kreyren> Consolekit2 ?
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843[06:52:18] <alkisg> kreyren: no idea, I'm not using openrc and I'm actually depending on systemd on all the packages I'm writing from now on...
844[06:52:33] <kreyren> ehw
845[06:52:50] <alkisg> Having to care about 1000+ ways to do one things, makes programmers unable to do simple tasks without spending months
846[06:53:42] <kreyren> doubt
847[06:54:05] <kreyren> openrc makes it usually way easier depending on the usecase :p
848[06:54:07] <alkisg> See how much time you'll need to make it work in your pc; then multiply 100 times, you'll see my point :)
849[06:54:25] <alkisg> Then also try to care about other init systems too
850[06:54:44] <kreyren> it works pretty might out of the box on gentoo and exherbo.. it's complicated on debian since it's using systemd partially
851[06:54:58] <alkisg> That's because gentoo developers did spend those months
852[06:55:02] <kreyren> otherwise you just make the runscript and leave it be xD no need to care about other 100 stuff
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854[06:55:27] <kreyren> alkisg, gentoo developers are not responsible for packaging you build it from source
855[06:55:29] <alkisg> It's not just one runscript. How about information like "who is logged in currently? is it safe to unmount x user's sshfs home dir?"
856[06:56:10] <alkisg> Anyways, it would take time to convince you that supporting various init systems takes time :)
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858[06:56:17] <alkisg> So I won't attempt it :)
859[06:56:29] <nefsation_> i was afk for a sec and you all are discussing about systemd and openrc?
860[06:56:32] <nefsation_> nice
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865[07:00:07] <kreyren> alkisg, > "who is logged in currently? < -> afaik you have session manager for that, `is it safe to unmount x user's sshfs home dir?"` - just use umount lol?
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868[07:00:53] <alkisg> kreyren: you're missing the point, I mean "systemd has APIs that some programs need and may decide to depend on them"; and I'll stop at that.
869[07:01:06] <kreyren> w/e
870[07:01:33] <kreyren> just make quality code and keep it open-source and i'm gut
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883[07:14:44] <jim> kreyren, if you ever feel like you'd like a detailed overview on systemd, man systemd happens to be a good read (I was surprised by this)
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891[07:18:40] <ZaZaGX> hmm, not sure if this debian 10 laptop better life is better than Ubuntu 19.04.. the debian 10 seems to drain more power
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894[07:20:01] <rant> yes well, some would say Ubuntu is an ancient african word for "can't install/configure debian" :P
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897[07:20:40] <DerL> hey rant
898[07:21:40] <ZaZaGX> i thought Ubuntu installs more easier lol
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900[07:23:07] <DerL> ZaZaGX: supposed to be
901[07:23:09] <DerL> not always
902[07:23:44] <ZaZaGX> yeah, sometimes it might not work
903[07:24:24] <DerL> ZaZaGX: try installing ubuntu beaver on a 15 yr old printer
904[07:25:13] <DerL> debian has better chance of working- and that'd be a strech ;)
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906[07:25:21] * DerL nudges
907[07:25:32] <ZaZaGX> hmm,
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910[07:27:50] <kreyren> jim, eh?
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922[07:36:41] <kreyren> ,v consolekit2
923[07:36:42] <judd> No package named 'consolekit2' was found in amd64.
924[07:36:47] <kreyren> hug!
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936[07:55:21] <kreyren> How do you add `Release.gpg` i forget
937[07:55:25] <kreyren> ;-;
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939[07:56:55] <kreyren> W: GPG error: replaced-url
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953[08:07:00] <kreyren> dpkg: ping
954[08:07:01] <dpkg> Yes, kreyren you are either online or you are not... replaced-url
955[08:07:36] * kreyren killed #debian
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957[08:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1506
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962[08:11:40] <nefsation__> ping
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967[08:17:38] <enri> ola amigos
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978[08:25:52] <kreyren> ola
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986[08:29:14] <joepublic> ola a todos.
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1025[08:45:26] <jim> kreyren, not sure, but people might feel devuan is different from debian, in ways they're not aware of, so answers they might give would be guesses (and so not helpful to you)
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1029[08:47:31] * jim is not even sure how similar they are (or if they're exactly the same, differing only in which sets of packages are installed from debian's archive)
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1032[08:47:59] * alkisg guesses they modify popular packages that don't have sysvinit units, to manually include them
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1039[08:49:58] <alkisg> Can anyone manage mksquashfs -regex to exclude things under ^/proc/.*$ ? This works, but it also excludes /other/dir/proc/.* ...
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1042[08:50:48] <rant> !br
1043[08:50:48] <dpkg> Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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1046[08:53:05] <rant> devaun is different from debian in ways us Americans are all too aware of.. it offers init freedom very much the same way the US offers freedom.. you are free to use any init system you want, except systemd :P
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1051[08:56:35] <luna> Signed up as #1 for the Debian Day in Stockholm replaced-url
1052[08:57:13] <EoflaOE> luna: Nice
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1060[09:04:53] <nefsation__> so
1061[09:05:08] <nefsation__> idk if its interesting to you
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1064[09:05:38] <nefsation__> but my owncloud files werent encrypted
1065[09:06:03] <nefsation__> im copying files to another folder now
1066[09:06:19] <nefsation__> anyone has used seafile?
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1082[09:17:14] <rant> ,popcon seafile-daemon
1083[09:17:15] <judd> Popcon data for seafile-daemon: inst: 521, vote: 237, old: 221, recent: 63, nofiles: 0
1084[09:17:30] <rant> ,popcon seafile-cli
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1086[09:17:31] <judd> Popcon data for seafile-cli: inst: 177, vote: 49, old: 107, recent: 21, nofiles: 0
1087[09:17:35] <rant> ,popcon seafile-gui
1088[09:17:36] <judd> Popcon data for seafile-gui: inst: 453, vote: 207, old: 189, recent: 57, nofiles: 0
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1091[09:18:02] <rant> nefsation__: yes, apparently folk have used it
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1096[09:19:22] <nefsation__> folk, can you tell me about your experience? im looking for an owncloud replacement
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1099[09:19:55] <nefsation__> (im not going to reinstall that server no matter what)
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1104[09:20:42] <rant> replaced-url
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1107[09:21:01] <rant> or other such things.. usage polls and testimonials aren't really within the scope of this channel
1108[09:21:46] <rant> you can either google and read reviews and comparisons online, or perhaps go to a channel specific to such software and ask questions about it
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1111[09:23:05] <gggg> Hi there libcurl4 is causing an issue
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1113[09:23:15] <gggg> virtualbox-5.2 : Depends: libcurl3 (>= 7.16.2) but it is not installable
1114[09:23:15] <gggg> Recommends: linux-headers-generic but it is not installable or
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1126[09:25:49] <rant> gggg: you either need to get a package that works, or use equivs to make a metapackage that satisfies the dependency
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1128[09:26:22] <rant> ,v virtualbox
1129[09:26:23] <judd> Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.0.10-dfsg-2
1130[09:26:49] <gggg> buster is my version
1131[09:27:02] <rant> and where did you get the package you are trying to install?
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1135[09:27:13] <gggg> replaced-url
1136[09:27:41] <gggg> I figured I could try the stretch package
1137[09:27:52] <gggg> Is virt-manager the same as virtualbox?
1138[09:28:13] <rant> no
1139[09:28:16] <rant> ,i virt-manager
1140[09:28:17] <judd> Package virt-manager (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: desktop application for managing virtual machines. Version: 1:2.0.0-3; Size: 884.9k; Installed: 6770k; Homepage: replaced-url
1141[09:28:25] <rant> ,depends virt-manager
1142[09:28:27] <judd> Package virt-manager in buster/amd64 -- depends: dconf-gsettings-backend | gsettings-backend, python3:any, python3-gi, python3-gi-cairo, python3-dbus, python-requests, librsvg2-common, python3-libvirt (>= 0.7.1), gir1.2-libvirt-glib-1.0, gir1.2-gtk-vnc-2.0, gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (>= 3.10), gir1.2-vte-2.91, gir1.2-libosinfo-1.0, virtinst (>= 1:2.0.0-3).
1143[09:28:46] *** Quits: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1144[09:28:57] <gggg> thanks
1145[09:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1518
1146[09:29:19] <rant> gggg: you can use the upstream package
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1149[09:29:50] <gggg> of virt-manager?
1150[09:29:53] <rant> gggg: replaced-url
1151[09:30:00] <gggg> I've been told that a few times is that safe?
1152[09:30:09] <gggg> Mixing distros
1153[09:30:13] <gggg> -Mixing packages
1154[09:30:20] <alkisg> Ouch, no virtualbox in buster? Meh
1155[09:30:42] <rant> virtualbox hasn't been included in debian in quite awhile, but has been available as a backport
1156[09:31:22] <rant> dpkg, why isn't virtualbox in buster?
1157[09:31:23] <dpkg> rant: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
1158[09:31:42] <gggg> lol
1159[09:31:52] <rant> its a virtualbox, not a breadbox you silly bot
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1161[09:32:18] <rant> dpkg, why isn't virtualbox in testing
1162[09:32:18] <dpkg> virtualbox is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
1163[09:33:59] <gggg> "I would like to see it in Debian, but since people working for Oracle might risk to get punished for not following the Oracle policy, I think we are not sure we can continue giving a CVE free package for Stable Releases."
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1166[09:34:39] <gggg> 2015 lol
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1168[09:35:04] <nefsation__> thank you all for the support
1169[09:35:07] *** Joins: MrShared (~mrshared@replaced-ip)
1170[09:35:18] <nefsation__> im going to bed now
1171[09:35:21] <gggg> seems like virtualbox is a goner for good
1172[09:35:23] <rant> iirc its due to the fact that the upstream only supports the current version
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1174[09:35:33] <rant> I just use the upstream packages
1175[09:35:37] <nefsation__> maybe tomorrow ill let you know how it went
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1183[09:37:52] <kreyren> jim, meh seems that devuan is not that fast on updates so i'm seting up franken
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1210[09:52:01] <ZaZaGX> hi
1211[09:52:08] <jim> hi
1212[09:52:30] <ZaZaGX> whoa, your a staff member
1213[09:52:47] <jim> kreyren, how do you mean franken?
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1215[09:53:10] <jim> ZaZaGX, not freenode, ##linux staff
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1217[09:53:22] <ZaZaGX> oh ok
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1220[09:54:47] <jim> ZaZaGX, what's new? everything working/
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1222[09:54:49] <jim> ?
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1228[09:56:27] <kreyren> jim, using debian + devuan repos, because debian is incompetent for systemd-less system
1229[09:56:38] *** Joins: oaudry (~oaudry@replaced-ip)
1230[09:56:46] <alkisg> If it was easy to do it with debian, devuan wouldn't exist :)
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1236[10:02:00] <ZaZaGX> oh yeah
1237[10:02:08] <ZaZaGX> just gotta complain about the battery life
1238[10:02:34] <ZaZaGX> it seems to drain more compared to Ubuntu 19.04. but the Debian 10 does seem more smoother and faster
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1243[10:07:25] <ZaZaGX> Downer, how is the mullvad vpn working for you?
1244[10:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1525
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1250[10:13:05] <ZaZaGX> hi Makaveli7
1251[10:15:55] *** Joins: Ycarus (~Ycarus@replaced-ip)
1252[10:16:17] <jim> ZaZaGX, could it be that the debian is running more stuff in the background?
1253[10:17:40] <ZaZaGX> not sure
1254[10:18:00] <ZaZaGX> i believe the newer Ubuntu 19.04 is using a more updated Kernel
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1257[10:18:13] <ZaZaGX> thats why it saves more battery
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1260[10:20:21] <k_sze> Has anybody had problems building Python 3.7.6 with optimizations under Debian Buster?
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1266[10:24:10] <Makaveli7> hello ZaZaGX
1267[10:24:32] <ZaZaGX> i heard good things about Mallvad vpn, how is it?
1268[10:25:06] <Makaveli7> no complaints so far. it's fast, it has a kill switch and netflix works
1269[10:25:16] <Makaveli7> I'm using it via wireguard
1270[10:25:27] <BCMM> k_sze: what do you mean? like, compiling the interpreter with different cflags?
1271[10:25:48] <k_sze> BCMM, different options passed to the `configure` script.
1272[10:26:50] <k_sze> Python's `configure` script has a `--with-optimizations` option that will perform profile-guided optimizations during the build.
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1274[10:27:35] <ZaZaGX> i just googled wireguard. still not sure what it is
1275[10:27:37] <EoflaOE> Makaveli7: Is Mallvad vpn paid or free
1276[10:28:30] <Makaveli7> it's paid
1277[10:28:43] <colo-work> "a kill switch"?
1278[10:28:52] <k_sze> BCMM: I tried that on Raspbian Buster (which is largely Debian Buster for armv7, for the Raspberry Pi series of single board computers): replaced-url
1279[10:28:54] <EoflaOE> Makaveli7: OK. A subscription?
1280[10:29:10] *** Joins: orotalt (~orotalt@replaced-ip)
1281[10:29:31] <ZaZaGX> i use ProtonVPN. it offers free vpn but the speed is basic
1282[10:29:42] <ZaZaGX> i decided to pay for it
1283[10:29:56] <BCMM> k_sze: how did you do that? did you just download python sources from upstream, or did you start by modifying debian's source package?
1284[10:29:59] <Makaveli7> yes you can get subscription
1285[10:30:07] <EoflaOE> ZaZaGX: Nice. I use that, but not able to pay. It delivered enough speed.
1286[10:30:09] <BCMM> (or raspbian's source package, if that's different in any way)
1287[10:30:10] <k_sze> python sources from upstream
1288[10:30:10] <Makaveli7> I got it for a month to try
1289[10:30:18] <EoflaOE> Makaveli7: Nice.
1290[10:30:21] <k_sze> directly from python.org
1291[10:30:30] <BCMM> k_sze: any particular reason not to try using your distro's source package?
1292[10:30:56] <BCMM> k_sze: the objective is to change configure options, not to get a newer version, right?
1293[10:30:57] <ZaZaGX> i got the bundle. Protonmail and ProntonVPN. instead of paying 15 bucks. it cost 12 bucks a month
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1295[10:31:46] <Makaveli7> that's nice. I heard about protonvpn
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1301[10:33:24] <BCMM> k_sze: that way, if there's some weird tweak needed to make it build on debian, you can get a copy that's already had that done
1302[10:33:25] <ZaZaGX> so wireguard has stronger security?
1303[10:34:58] <BCMM> ZaZaGX: wireguard is relatively new, so is considered to be a bit less audited than some other solutions. however, the protocol is also much simpler than some other vpns, and it uses existing encryption standards
1304[10:35:05] <Makaveli7> I don't think it's about security. it's just faster and has lesser code than openvpn
1305[10:35:11] <BCMM> so there's kind of not a lot of places that a security bug could hide
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1307[10:35:33] <ZaZaGX> oh ic
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1310[10:36:22] <k_sze> BCMM: it's for both, but mostly for the configure options: the deb package in Raspbian is built without optimizations.
1311[10:36:42] <k_sze> Which kinda sucks, as the Raspberry Pi itself is already not terribly fast.
1312[10:36:45] <BCMM> k_sze: have you built anything from a debian source package before?
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1315[10:37:16] <k_sze> No, never tried.
1316[10:37:44] <k_sze> You mean I should try building with Debian's source instead of Python.org's source?
1317[10:38:10] <ZaZaGX> man, i'm starting to think i pay more for my VPN
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1319[10:38:43] <rant> ZaZaGX: I am not even following the convo but that sounds ridiculous
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1322[10:39:08] <rant> you would know whether or not you were paying more for something, its not something you'd need to start to think
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1324[10:39:31] <BCMM> k_sze: any package in debian's own repository has to exist as a "source" package. you can't just upload a build that some developer managed to compile once on their own system
1325[10:40:16] <rant> that includes binary data.. you have to provide the means for the generation of the data
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1327[10:40:47] <BCMM> k_sze: debian binary packages are automatically built by debian's build servers. this is how raspbian is able to exist - by almost completely automatically compiling debian source packages for the Pi's specific arm microarchitechture
1328[10:41:05] <g0zzy> Can anyone think of anything that boots UEFI and has memtest on it? I want to test this RAM before installing Buster.
1329[10:41:27] <rant> g0zzy: memtest is built into the linux kernel, has been for a long time
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1331[10:41:40] <rant> g0zzy: you just pass a kernel parameter at boot
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1333[10:41:48] <ZaZaGX> would debian testing
1334[10:41:54] *** Quits: apt (ibot@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1335[10:42:04] <ZaZaGX> would debian bullseye testing be a good choice?
1336[10:42:11] <BCMM> k_sze: so if you want to modify a package on your system, your best starting point is probably the source package, because it can automatically be built in to a working binary. if you use a source package properly, you don't have to engage in trial-and-error to work out how to make the package build on your system
1337[10:42:20] <BCMM> because the source package is already set up to build with a single command
1338[10:42:23] <g0zzy> Ah great
1339[10:42:41] <kreyren> Why does my debian system takes +- 60 sec to trigger any command ?
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1341[10:42:47] <kreyren> seems to hit a treshold of some kind
1342[10:43:09] <kreyren> removed policykit-1 iirc
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1344[10:43:51] <BCMM> k_sze: replaced-url
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1347[10:45:21] <k_sze> BCMM, I see. I'll check that out, thanks.
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1349[10:47:09] <g0zzy> rant: Any idea on how NOT to miss the results though? ;)
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1368[10:56:41] <alkisg> rant: how do you invoke memtest? I'm trying with: kvm -m 512 -kernel vmlinuz -initrd initrd.img -append "memtest break=top root=/dev/null"
1369[10:56:41] <alkisg> ..and I get the initramfs shell, but no memtest running...
1370[10:57:14] <ZaZaGX> anyone tried debian edu? i wonder how it is
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1375[11:04:10] <alkisg> Ah it seems to be a silent one that finishes in 1 second...
1376[11:04:41] <alkisg> dmesg | grep memtest says: early_memtest: # of tests: 17
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1380[11:06:53] <kreyren> Fixed the issue by removing systemd it got pulled somehow
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1392[11:11:31] <ZaZaGX> looks like everyone is asleep
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1394[11:12:09] <kreyren> What is the sane way to resolve this on debian? replaced-url
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1398[11:14:35] <kreyren> ideally apt should fetch newer version of the same package and prefer debian if the version is same
1399[11:16:24] <ratrace> kreyren: there's #devuan
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1402[11:17:11] <ratrace> !don't break debian
1403[11:17:12] <dpkg> well, dont break debian is replaced-url
1404[11:17:30] <kreyren> ratrace, that's apt specific not devuan issue
1405[11:17:50] <kreyren> and my debian is used to beeing broken! i have the power
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1407[11:18:25] <ratrace> kreyren: but using devuan repos is not supported here
1408[11:18:56] <g0zzy> alkisg: where did you see any docs? I've just been doing memtest=9 (It didn't work)
1409[11:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1531
1410[11:19:35] <alkisg> g0zzy: I didn't find any docs :D then I read the source, memtest.c, and I tried memtest=1000000, which delayed a lot, so then I tried plain "memtest", which did 17 passes
1411[11:19:46] <alkisg> g0zzy: dmesg | grep memtest => tells you if it ran or not
1412[11:19:50] <kreyren> ratrace, the question was about managing different repos on apt
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1415[11:20:03] <kreyren> -> debian issue assuming apt beeing made by debian
1416[11:20:04] <alkisg> g0zzy: I guess if it finds an error, only then it stops and prints it
1417[11:20:15] <ratrace> kreyren: no it's not. you have a conflict from using unsupported repo
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1419[11:21:13] <g0zzy> This is what i found: replaced-url
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1423[11:22:40] <kreyren> ratrace, and i'm asking how do i resolve that ocnflict on **APT** where apt is not devuan's issue
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1425[11:22:57] <kreyren> just help me dammit -.- i know debian's phobia from frankendebian
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1435[11:25:03] <ZaZaGX> heh frankendebian
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1437[11:25:20] <g0zzy> alkisg: So what about combining what you tried with that?
1438[11:25:21] <BenNZ> ratrace: i had the same issue updating stable to buster recently
1439[11:25:38] <BenNZ> ratrace: altho i was using debian repos
1440[11:26:00] <alkisg> g0zzy: I don't understand what you're asking; I've read kernel parameters before and I did make memtest work properly, it just was not as useful as I expected; what is your question?
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1446[11:27:51] <g0zzy> How i should invoke it. 1 pass in my experience takes many minutes
1447[11:27:58] <kreyren> ratrace, fine be anti-gnu then i figure it out eventually -_-
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1450[11:28:24] <alkisg> g0zzy: you're talking about a "memtest86 binary pass"; the internal memtest call takes a few msec
1451[11:28:27] <ratrace> kreyren: lol, i'm anti-gnu?
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1453[11:28:41] <kreyren> yep for not helping me with this configuration
1454[11:28:46] <kreyren> thats like definition of anti-gnu
1455[11:28:49] <alkisg> g0zzy: that's what confused me too initially, I was expecting to see an interface that would take minutes for each pass etc
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1459[11:29:11] <g0zzy> Yes memtest86
1460[11:29:14] <alkisg> g0zzy: if you tried it, you should already have it in dmesg, as I said, what's the output of this: dmesg | grep memtest
1461[11:29:33] <alkisg> g0zzy: yes, the kernel memtest is NOT memtest86; a completely different thing
1462[11:29:35] <BenNZ> ratrace: i get this error , W: Conflicting distribution: replaced-url
1463[11:29:47] <BenNZ> warning i should say
1464[11:30:35] <g0zzy> Right. m86 has disappeared from EFI boot menus by the looks
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1470[11:31:26] <alkisg> g0zzy: afaik it was never there, as it's proprietary. You can download the free commercial version of memtest.efi from replaced-url
1471[11:31:48] <alkisg> The open source version is a much older one, that doesn't support efi
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1473[11:32:05] <g0zzy> I see, thanks
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1475[11:32:10] <alkisg> np
1476[11:32:20] <Kocane69> Anyone got an idea how I can troubleshoot why on earth systemctl disappears from my Debian 10 install?
1477[11:32:40] <Kocane69> Seemingly out of nowhere. Yesterday I ran reinstall of it and it started working again but now today its gone...
1478[11:32:52] <ayekat> Kocane69: misconfigured $PATH?
1479[11:33:48] <Kocane69> ayekat shouldn't it exist in /bin/systemctl still?
1480[11:34:12] * ayekat connects to a debian machine
1481[11:34:14] * g0zzy now needs to get it on a stick
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1483[11:34:44] <ayekat> Kocane69: yes, at least on buster it should be there
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1486[11:35:15] <Kocane69> ayekat it's gone...
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1489[11:35:17] <alkisg> Kocane69: what's the output of: dpkg -L systemd | grep /bin/systemctl
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1492[11:35:40] <Kocane69> alkisg: /bin/systemctl
1493[11:35:49] <alkisg> Try debsums -s, sounds fishy...
1494[11:35:51] <alkisg> Maybe disk issues
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1496[11:36:08] <ratrace> BenNZ: can you pastebin your sources.list?
1497[11:36:22] <ayekat> files shouldn't just randomly disappear in /bin - something is definitely weird
1498[11:36:27] <ayekat> maybe a botched usrmerge install
1499[11:36:32] <mpodien> Is it possible to continue reading with less where you left off after a reboot? is this possible using dtach? do socket files survive a restart?
1500[11:37:10] <BenNZ> ratrace: the issue is because the server uses buster backports in the release file instead of testing , not much i can do about it except use buster in my sources
1501[11:37:16] <Kocane69> alkisg: what does debsums -s do?
1502[11:37:55] <alkisg> Kocane69: it checks all the files in your system (or in the specified packages) against their initial md5sums, so it's a good indication of debian installations that are broken due to bad disks
1503[11:38:02] <alkisg> E.g. it would report /bin/systemctl missing
1504[11:38:22] <alkisg> So if you see that it will report tens of broken files, it's a disk issue; etc
1505[11:38:46] <BenNZ> ratrace: sources replaced-url
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1507[11:39:12] <Kocane69> alkisg alright.. right now it's just listing a ton of "changed file"
1508[11:39:13] <kreyren> fixed the issue by renaming the release since Release file in testing-backports is using bullseye instead of testing.. suck it ratrace!
1509[11:39:37] <alkisg> Kocane69: did you pass the -s parameter? pastebin a few lines...
1510[11:39:50] <ratrace> kreyren: forgot your meds today?
1511[11:40:07] <kreyren> ratrace, fetching my drugs atm
1512[11:40:12] <alkisg> Kocane69: debsums -s, when ran as root, should ideally display nothing
1513[11:40:15] <Kocane69> alkisg: yeah I did. It stops with missing files in some kernel drivers, and in the end "debsums: missing file /bin/systemctl (from systemd package"
1514[11:40:20] <Kocane69> Oh..
1515[11:40:40] <alkisg> Kocane69: pastebin the output, so that we see how bad it is
1516[11:40:46] <ratrace> kreyren: you'll still break your debian if you try using devuan packages
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1519[11:40:58] <kreyren> ratrace, that is expected
1520[11:41:05] <kreyren> i can fix conflicts
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1526[11:43:25] <ratrace> kreyren: why would you even want to do that btw, what do those packages offer that you can't do in debian, or can't use devuan straight?
1527[11:43:43] <kreyren> ratrace, yep since debian is unable to handle my openrc configuration
1528[11:44:01] <kreyren> since i need consolekit2 and some maintained version of openrc
1529[11:44:20] <kreyren> but also i need fast updated by debian for rest of the packages
1530[11:44:30] <kreyren> *fast updates of packages on debian
1531[11:44:36] <ratrace> so then why don't you use devuan straight?
1532[11:44:47] <ratrace> ah
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1534[11:45:33] <kreyren> ratrace, since it's slower on updates and i woudn't be able to ask debianers since debian community is bigger
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1536[11:45:59] <kreyren> + i want to include it in bedrock linux later so that it woudn't have to use multiple stratum for one apt-based distro
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1542[11:49:09] <kreyren> ratrace, just try to not be an asshole next time :p
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1545[11:49:33] <Kocane69> alkisg: replaced-url
1546[11:49:45] <Kocane69> Basically a ton of garbage about what Im guessing is my TV Tuner driver in the kernel
1547[11:49:57] <Kocane69> aside from that only systemctl seems to be missing.
1548[11:49:57] <ratrace> kreyren: what with, telling the truth? what you're trying to do is very much unsupported here
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1552[11:52:26] <ayekat> calling people assholes if they tell you that you're asking questions in the wrong place seems more asshole-y to me
1553[11:52:31] <alkisg> Kocane69: it seems like your disk has started being corrupted since 4.16... I'd suggest an fsck while the disk isn't in use, then reinstallation of all broken packages, and when you finally have debsums -s clean and fsck clean, monitor it for a few days in case it errors again,
1554[11:52:31] <alkisg> btw, do you see any disk or ATA errors in dmesg?
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1560[11:54:34] <kreyren> ratrace, i agree that devuan is not supported here and offtipic, apt specific issues are very relevant
1561[11:54:42] <kreyren> *but apt specific..
1562[11:55:13] <ayekat> but devuan might have made changes to apt (or packaged it differently), and thus it may behave differently
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1564[11:55:41] <afidegnum> hello, using debian with i3, when i ran start_navicat is not able to run. $PATH is not exported, part of the script is not run even with sudo. what can i do? here is the installation script replaced-url
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1566[11:56:24] <ayekat> it's like asking for ubuntu help - sure, it uses mostly the same tools, but who knows how the default config differs from debian?
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1568[11:59:00] <ratrace> kreyren: my argument was that your problem stems from trying to use non-standard repos; you wouldn't have it if you used standard, supported repos; that's all
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1570[12:00:21] <kreyren> fair enough, but you should still provide the help needed with it if end-user wants to use this configuration instead of screaming 'not supported'..
1571[12:00:44] <ratrace> kreyren: and if you think that's being an ass, perhaps you'd like to invite entire Freenode to seek support in #debian? it's all linux anyway, amirite? ;)
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1575[12:01:12] <EmleyMoor> What's your issue with the supported repos?
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1578[12:02:31] <kreyren> ratrace, nah only if their question is debian-specific
1579[12:02:46] <kreyren> where apt is debian's issue since debian is creator of apt.
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1581[12:02:59] <kreyren> and active maintainer afaik
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1583[12:05:54] <ayekat> kreyren: debian is the creator of apt the *software*, but devuan is the maintainer of apt the *package* - the debian maintainers have no control over how devuan has packaged or configured apt on devuan
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1588[12:06:30] <kreyren> ayekat, that only makes it relevant for both and i'm using debian's apt
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1590[12:07:06] * g0zzy breathes a sigh of relief that UEFI memtest86 dds properly and simply and it's now running
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1596[12:09:40] <ayekat> kreyren: no, it still doesn't make it relevant for both - and using debian's apt doesn't mean there isn't still devuan-specific configuration lying around on your system
1597[12:10:22] <ayekat> if you know the specific differences, and you ask an apt-related question that is not a support question, it's fine to ask here
1598[12:10:23] <kreyren> ayekat, in that case it would made it relevant for both devuan and debian if said system is using configuration from debian and devuan
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1601[12:10:45] <kreyren> ayekat, note that mensioned question was on pure debian pre-merge to devuan
1602[12:10:54] <kreyren> *pre-merge to frankendebian
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1604[12:11:23] <ayekat> kreyren: no, because debian people don't know anything about devuan configuration - so if you mix'n'match configs, only devuan people will know (if any at all)
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1608[12:12:14] <ayekat> and that apt output there showed that it was at least partially configured for using devuan repos
1609[12:12:24] <kreyren> ayekat, in which case i would ask devuan for that specific question and expect any helpful info from debian
1610[12:12:54] <kreyren> since devuan and debian share simmilar configuration for me to draw concludion to find solution
1611[12:13:07] <ratrace> they don't though
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1614[12:14:17] <kreyren> like i understand that you dont like frankendebian users in general since it makes it difficult to help them, but i dont see a reason why woudn't you provide said help so that i would be able to use debian's part of my franken for my usecase..
1615[12:14:45] <kreyren> ratrace, afaik only init is different and i'm currently running openrc on debian from debian which is pain to use..
1616[12:14:54] <kreyren> rest is pretty much same or very simmilar
1617[12:15:00] <ayekat> kreyren: oh that's simple: because even on debian, mixing distro releases is unsupported
1618[12:16:04] <ayekat> if you mix stretch repos with buster repos, expect things to break (someone linked to the "don't break debian" article) - the same applies to mixing different releases from different *distros*
1619[12:16:23] <kreyren> ayekat, but you have testing debian which literally needs pinning from stable, experimental etc.. to work around present issues + it's anti-gnu since gnu encourages to support every configuration of system
1620[12:16:44] <Kocane69> alkisg: i'm not seeing any disk errors regarding to my system SSD i don't think.. however I am seeing some on one of the disks in my zfs pool
1621[12:17:02] <kreyren> ayekat, breakage is expected i can work around that usually and when i can't i expect to ask here or on #debian-next to get more info to fix said issue
1622[12:17:13] <Kocane69> alkisg: is there any way I can scan the disk while it's in use?
1623[12:17:31] <alkisg> Kocane69: dunno, I'm not using zfs
1624[12:17:44] <kreyren> else you are turning this into LFS hell even when i am LFS user it's still annoying, wastes time and is harmful to FOSS..
1625[12:17:49] <ayekat> kreyren: pinning stable/experimental falls into the same category - you can do it, but expect things to go awry at some point
1626[12:17:53] <Kocane69> alkisg: oh the zfs is irrelevant to this, it's only for storage, not system.
1627[12:18:06] <alkisg> Kocane69: I don't know of any proper way to fsck ext4 online
1628[12:18:09] <ayekat> also, I'm gonna stop, because now it gets just religious
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1630[12:18:45] <ratrace> it's just a lot of noise ; or else we could invite all users of ubuntu and debian derivates to ask here ; they all use apt after all
1631[12:19:16] <ratrace> (which was the original statement ; devuan uses apt so #debian is relevant to ask about unsupported use case)
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1640[12:20:43] <Kocane69> alkisg: hm, okay. I guess I can make it run a fsck on boot.. the trouble is that the server is remote
1641[12:20:50] <Kocane69> no IPMI or anything.
1642[12:21:13] <kreyren> ratrace, you already have most of the debian's community helping ubuntu plebs because the solutions are simmilar.. and it should be taken as relevant since devuan can NOT help with debian-specific issues and vice-versa
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1644[12:21:55] <ratrace> if they are, then they're supporting in #ubuntu and relevant derivative channel ; otherwise this cahnnel would be very very noisy
1645[12:22:22] <ayekat> also, devuan *should* be able to help with debian-specific issues, since they're the one applying the changes to debian
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1648[12:22:53] <alkisg> Kocane69: I don't know how to properly fsck -f automatically on boot even on cases where user input is needed (fsck -a refuses to fix errors) without user input; I think you should re-ask this question in this channel without directing it to me, so that anyone may answer
1649[12:22:56] <ratrace> kreyren: and speaking of asses, the only ass here is you, demanding support for very much unsupported configuration ; you're literally demanding and calling "ass" anyone who points that out ;
1650[12:23:00] <kreyren> ayekat, assuming that devuan's community on irc is almost 10 times smaller and i'm prefering debian packages over devuan i doubt it
1651[12:23:06] <g0zzy> alkisg: Thanks
1652[12:23:09] <alkisg> np
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1656[12:24:30] <ayekat> kreyren: "the community of my distro is too small" is an age-old (and invalid) argument - if lack of community support is an issue for you, you may need to pick a different distro
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1658[12:24:41] <kreyren> ratrace, i'm calling you ass for assuming it beeing devuan issue even when it was debian issue since said system was running 100% debian packages at the time of question and you insisted on asking in #devuan which was provided beeing not relevant assuming conflict within the apt and it's configuration for testing naming on debian repository..
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1661[12:25:28] <ayekat> kreyren: also, again, you can ask apt questions here - but if you ask about an unsupported case (which is: mixing repos from different distros), you can't expect help here
1662[12:25:33] <ratrace> kreyren: it cannot be debian issue when you're using unsupported third party repos ; why is that so hard to understand
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1664[12:26:48] <ratrace> same if you pointed at an Ubuntu PPA (hey, it's all apt, amirite) and then demanded help over some package that fails to install :: i mean... duh...
1665[12:28:09] <kreyren> ayekat, which is acceptable assuming it beeing unsupported but said question was 100% debian's issue and even if it was frankendebian then any form of help should be encouraged assuming debian's repositories and software used..
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1667[12:28:41] <ayekat> kreyren: no, that issue there was related to using one of their repositories: "expected testing but got beowulf"
1668[12:28:55] <ayekat> it's like... 100% devuan
1669[12:29:09] <kreyren> ayekat, it was since it was also blocked by testing-backports which needs bullseye-backports
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1674[12:30:46] <kreyren> and it was still using 3rd party repos on debian.. i doubt you would sent me to WINE with this issue if i ware using their repos.. -> i'm wasn't using devuan at the time of asking
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1676[12:31:37] <themill> kreyren: that's enough, thanks.
1677[12:31:37] <alkisg> I think the point of argument is: (1) how can I add a ppa? (2) instructions (3) breakage ==> people here don't want to even support (2), before it gets to (3), and it's their right to do so. It's not a channel for supporting "any kind of usage of debian software", but only "supported usage of debian software"
1678[12:31:45] <kreyren> themill, ok
1679[12:32:18] * kreyren goes back to breaking debian
1680[12:33:02] * ayekat just noticed they were already here in March with a weird ubuntu/debian/bedrock/gentoo mix
1681[12:33:56] <kreyren> ayekat, i'm messing with it for longer xD but it was never a problem providing support for it on debian.. in #gentoo developers pretty much get ptsd from seeing my portage configuration and refuse to help
1682[12:34:39] <Kocane69> If I use forcefsck in / to run a fsck on reboot, does anyone know if it saves the output somewhere?
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1684[12:35:27] <jelly> kreyren, while Debian purports itself to be a "universal operating system", and that means you should be able to install any sort of software on it, some ways of getting said software are better and some are worse, some more likely to cause problems with other components, and some less likely
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1686[12:36:01] <Kocane69> alkisg: isn't it weird that a command like reboot also disappears?
1687[12:36:17] <kreyren> jelly, i was asked to stop and i don't want to block #debian with this issue we can move in #debian-op or something.. your info is noted
1688[12:36:18] <Kocane69> I reinstalled systemd, rebooted server and the systemctl/reboot is once again gone..
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1691[12:37:34] <jelly> or irc://irc.oftc.net/#debian-next, since I see bullseye mentioned
1692[12:37:37] <kreyren> Kocane69, afaik fsck should be in syslog or you need to configure it to be saved in /var/log/fsck afaik
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1697[12:39:15] <ayekat> Kocane69: so systemctl is the only executable missing?
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1702[12:40:00] <ayekat> ah wait, no, there are some kernel modules missing as well
1703[12:40:17] <Kocane69> ayekay: and reboot
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1705[12:42:15] <ayekat> Kocane69: how did you run fsck? if it was through a service, it should be in the journal
1706[12:42:26] <Kocane69> ayekat I created forcefsck in / and rebooted.. it's a remote system.
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1708[12:43:21] <ayekat> Kocane69: what do you mean with "created forcefsck in /"?
1709[12:44:38] <jelly> ayekat, typically it means running "touch /forcefsck" or an equivalent
1710[12:44:40] <Kocane69> ayekat: well according to my googling, created a file named forcefsck in root will force a fsck on next reboot
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1712[12:45:12] <jelly> !forcefsck
1713[12:45:12] <dpkg> To instruct your system to execute <fsck> on the next boot: "touch /forcefsck". Useful for checking the root filesystem for errors (via /etc/init.d/checkroot.sh). Alternatively, supply the -F option to shutdown(8) to create the /forcefsck advisory file, or include "forcefsck" at the kernel command line.
1714[12:45:24] <jelly> okay, that's a bit outdated...
1715[12:45:33] <Vanfanel> Hi!
1716[12:46:16] <J_C> Vanfanel: hello there
1717[12:46:26] <jelly> there's also a systemd-specific way of doing it via a boot parameter, I can't remember it right now
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1721[12:47:19] <themill> initscripts still do it though from rcS.d
1722[12:48:04] <ayekat> huh, didn't know about that forcefsck... TIL
1723[12:48:26] <Vanfanel> I am trying to do an apt-get update on a chrooted "stretch" system, but it gets stuck at "Waiting for headers". The system has internet access and name resolution works. I can even ping to "deb.debian.org" with no problems at all. But still, its stuck at 0% in that "waiting for headers" message. Any idea on what the problem could be?
1724[12:48:40] <kreyren> Can i use variables in sources.list ? like `deb $url blah blah`
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1732[12:52:22] <ayekat> kreyren: from what I see in sources.list(5), no
1733[12:52:51] <kreyren> `E: Malformed line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (type)` yep.. :(
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1736[12:52:58] <ayekat> (apart from $(ARCH), that is)
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1739[12:53:52] <Kocane69> jelly: or I can throw in "fsck.mode=force" in the kernel parameters, no? I still can't figure how I can see the result of it, though.
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1744[12:57:06] <Vanfanel> I can even wget files from github, etc... but apt-get update is stuck at "waiting for headers". My sources.list contains just this one: "deb replaced-url
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1749[12:59:21] <themill> Vanfanel: do you have firewalling that might get in the way? apt uses SRV records and then goes off to a CDN, it doesn't do http to deb.debian.org
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1756[13:02:14] <Vanfanel> themill: the system is accessed via chroot, since its an ARM64 debian stretch system. It has no firewalls. The host system also does not have any firewalls to my knowledge: its a Lubuntu system on x86_64. How can I know if theres something on my network that could be causing the apt-get update fail on the chrooted arm64 system? Any tests I can do?
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1769[13:04:43] <Vanfanel> themill: the hosts system can do apt-update with no problems at all, too
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1771[13:04:49] <Vanfanel> *host
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1800[13:12:34] <ubq323> will bumblebee break if I upgrade to buster?
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1807[13:14:15] <Psyndrome> Is there a simple way to remove multiple packages at once?
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1813[13:16:39] <ayekat> Psyndrome: apt autoremove pkg1 pkg2 pkg3...
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1816[13:17:47] <themill> s/auto//
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1825[13:19:10] <ubq323> or purge, i guess
1826[13:19:22] <Psyndrome> cant i copy all that history from synaptic manager somehow?
1827[13:19:37] <Psyndrome> They are so many
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1829[13:19:47] <themill> what are you really trying to do?
1830[13:20:00] *** Joins: Namarrgon (~glei@replaced-ip)
1831[13:20:03] <ubq323> ^
1832[13:20:07] <Psyndrome> well i installed a bunch of stuff and i dont need them
1833[13:20:11] *** Joins: jikz (~k047n0de@replaced-ip)
1834[13:20:21] <Psyndrome> They are in the history but are so many to click one by one
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1836[13:20:24] <themill> vague questions get vague answers
1837[13:20:31] <jelly> Kocane69, ideally you'd see all the logs of things done during initramfs times somewhere in journal after boot, including fsck, but I can't test or confirm if that's true for debian 10 right now
1838[13:20:48] <Vanfanel> themill: I found a possible solution online, that consisted on chmod 666 /dev/null. Now I am not stuck at "waiting for headers" anymore, but I get instead an error with Release.gpg
1839[13:21:04] <ubq323> seems like an replaced-url
1840[13:21:05] <themill> Vanfanel: oh, now that's unexpected.
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1843[13:21:30] <jelly> Vanfanel, /dev/null SHOULD be 0666 by default
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1845[13:21:41] *** Joins: jikz (~k047n0de@replaced-ip)
1846[13:21:55] * themill wonders if it's not a device
1847[13:22:05] <jelly> that would be fun
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1850[13:22:52] <Vanfanel> jelly: well, its a chrooted enviroment, no idea on why its 0660 but it was
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1856[13:23:54] <Vanfanel> themill: now I get "Terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error' ": what(): random_device::random_device(const std::string&)
1857[13:24:08] <jelly> Vanfanel, show ls -ld /dev/{null,zero,full}
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1859[13:24:44] <Vanfanel> jelly: root@teclast:/# ls -ld /dev/{null,zero,full}
1860[13:24:44] <Vanfanel> /bin/ls: cannot access '/dev/zero': No such file or directory
1861[13:24:44] <Vanfanel> /bin/ls: cannot access '/dev/full': No such file or directory
1862[13:24:44] <Vanfanel> -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 56 Aug 1 11:14 /dev/null
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1864[13:24:50] <themill> o0
1865[13:24:55] <jelly> Vanfanel, your chroot is incomplete and/or broken
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1867[13:25:09] * themill is teh winnar
1868[13:25:16] <jelly> !win themill
1869[13:25:16] <dpkg> Congratulations, themill! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120!
1870[13:25:26] <themill> \o/
1871[13:25:28] <EoflaOE> Congrats themill
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1874[13:25:49] <jelly> Vanfanel, is this chroot on a crappy android device?
1875[13:25:49] <Vanfanel> jelly: the same system boots and works perfectly in "native" mode... maybe I am not doing the chroot process well?
1876[13:25:50] <Psyndrome> Most of them are also separated so the autoremove option is not listed
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1878[13:26:07] <Vanfanel> jelly: nope, its a Raspberry Pi 3 system, debian aarch64
1879[13:26:08] * jelly squints at "teclast"
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1881[13:26:27] <Vanfanel> jelly: the host is a teclast, yes
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1883[13:26:40] <Vanfanel> but the system is meant to run on a Pi3
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1885[13:27:07] <themill> before chrooting in, you need to mount /dev (and possibly other things) inside the image
1886[13:27:11] <jelly> either bind-mount /dev or make a minimal static /dev inside the chroot.
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1889[13:27:47] <Vanfanel> themill: take into account that the host is x86_64 and the chrooted system is aarch64...
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1892[13:28:17] <Vanfanel> themill: do I still to bind-mount /dev?
1893[13:28:53] <jelly> Vanfanel, if makedev is installed inside chroot, do "rm /dev/null" and then "/sbin/MAKEDEV std"
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1895[13:29:06] <jelly> ^ an alternative to bind mounting /dev
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1898[13:29:45] * jelly has not had to deal with a static /dev in a while and may not remember the right MAKEDEV incantation
1899[13:30:09] <Vanfanel> also, I did "mount --rbind /dev dev/" after chrooting. Isnt that bind mounting /dev?
1900[13:30:17] <ubq323> Psyndrome: how did you install these packages? if they are all dependencies or installed automatically then there's an easier way to get rid of them (for instance)
1901[13:30:28] <Vanfanel> or should I do differently BEFORE chrooting?
1902[13:30:38] <jelly> Vanfanel, after chrooting inside chroot? That won't do much.
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1906[13:31:41] <jelly> you'd need to do that in the chroot dir, but outside of chroot.
1907[13:32:06] <Psyndrome> They are fonts and i installed them just by clicking one by one in synaptic manager and very few of them was linked as multiple
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1909[13:33:37] <ubq323> does synaptic allow you to un-click them one by one?
1910[13:35:35] <Psyndrome> yes but i have to search them one by one
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1912[13:35:54] * kreyren merged beowulf on his debian with openrc and it runs like a charm
1913[13:37:29] <Vanfanel> jelly: I understood the problem. Once I bind mounted /dev, I had the same /dev contents that the host system has. Now everything works.
1914[13:37:41] <Vanfanel> jelly: thanks for your help!
1915[13:37:57] <Vanfanel> themill: thanks a lot! Its solved now! :)
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1920[13:41:44] <Kocane69> jelly: i really cannot get any output from this fsck
1921[13:42:07] <Kocane69> I can easily install other packages and use them, but if I install systemd there goes a minute then systemctl exe disappears again
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1923[13:42:49] <themill> Vanfanel: no worries, have fun with it
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1925[13:43:52] <Kocane69> hands down weidest issues I've had
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1927[13:44:11] <andre144k> hi all, i have follow bash-script, how to get "i-1" inside for-loop?
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1929[13:45:11] <andre144k> replaced-url
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1933[13:45:51] <msdoos> thank god the wetter applet is finally working again! thanks thanks
1934[13:45:53] *** Quits: Cueball (lee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1935[13:46:02] <msdoos> (updated to 10)
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1937[13:46:26] <andre144k> when possible without external tools like bc
1938[13:46:36] <humpled> for i in $(seq $TOP -1 $BOTTOM); do
1939[13:46:52] <jim> andre144k, do you have i?
1940[13:47:00] <humpled> there's probably better ways, definitely other ways
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1944[13:47:09] <andre144k> jim, replaced-url
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1946[13:47:21] <abrotman> There's a #bash for that
1947[13:47:30] <andre144k> ah thank you
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1949[13:47:52] <ZaZaGX> hi
1950[13:47:57] <jim> hi
1951[13:48:20] <ZaZaGX> omg, don
1952[13:48:28] <ZaZaGX> don't you ever sleep
1953[13:48:39] <jim> don?
1954[13:49:18] <ZaZaGX> jim
1955[13:49:32] <abrotman> ZaZaGX: Do you need help with Debian?
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1957[13:49:48] <jim> I do
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1959[13:49:57] <ZaZaGX> yea i do
1960[13:50:03] <abrotman> jim: you need lots of help :)
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1963[13:50:43] <jim> abrotman, well I'm trying to deal with sound, alsa, pulse and jackd...
1964[13:50:45] <jelly> the professional kind of?
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1966[13:51:14] <abrotman> apparently so :)
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1968[13:52:26] <jim> what I want to do is change it from alsa <==> pulse to alsa <==> jackd <==> pulse
1969[13:52:58] <jelly> if you prefer jack why use pulse at all?
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1971[13:53:29] <jim> jelly, for youtube and vlc (at least) which now go to pulse
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1973[13:53:47] <abrotman> youtube via the browser?
1974[13:53:53] <jim> yeha
1975[13:53:56] <jelly> I'm pretty sure vlc has jack in its dozen audio output plugins
1976[13:53:58] <jim> yeah
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1980[13:56:17] <ZaZaGX> how long is debian buster supported up too?
1981[13:56:29] <jim> so about that... I've been stopping pulse with systemd, then starting jackd, and it starts, but when I try a jack client (like jack_metro), I don't hear it (so jack isn't connecting to the right thing, or the headphone plug isn't connected to the right jack)
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1984[13:57:04] <Fox> ZaZaGX: next 5 years
1985[13:57:09] <ZaZaGX> oh ok
1986[13:57:15] <jelly> jim, supposedly pulseaudio detects jackd and routes audio there automatically, does this not happen for you?
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1990[13:57:52] <jim> I stop pulse, so it isn't detecting anything
1991[13:57:56] <jelly> jim, which debian release is this?
1992[13:58:03] <jim> buster
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1995[13:58:30] <jelly> jim, and is your pulseaudio running as a user unit or global for some reason
1996[13:58:35] <abrotman> This sounds like a lot of unnecessary work?
1997[13:58:39] <jelly> yes.
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1999[13:59:10] <jim> well I think as a user unit, I think this because I'm able to stop it as my user
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2003[14:01:18] <jelly> jim, is pulseaudio-module-jack installed?
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2010[14:03:44] <jim> it is now, I installed it about 2 hours ago
2011[14:03:51] * kreyren hides replaced-url
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2018[14:06:07] <jim> jelly, are you thinking alsa <==> pulse <==> jackd or alsa <==> jackd <==> pulse?
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2025[14:08:04] <alkisg> Kocane69: is that remote system virtualized, or bare metal?
2026[14:08:25] <jelly> jim, the latter. Before you stop pulseaudio, what does it say about where sound can go? pacmd list-sinks
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2029[14:09:03] <Psyndrome> I did it by using the help of a text editor... :D
2030[14:09:23] <jim> I think it's running now...
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2035[14:11:03] <jim> jelly, replaced-url
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2038[14:11:40] <jelly> jim, so you only have hdmi and spdif outputs, no analog?
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2040[14:12:10] <jelly> that... seems unusual.
2041[14:12:35] <jelly> jim, where does your sound normally go, how are those speakers connected?
2042[14:12:39] <jim> how are you getting that so fast?
2043[14:13:22] <jim> jelly, I plugged into the jack that at the time was outputting from a youtube video
2044[14:13:44] * jelly reads
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2046[14:14:15] <jim> but that was at least a couple years ago, I was using cadence
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2048[14:14:56] <jim> but after reinstalling buster, I decided to not go with cadence, since it's not a debian package
2049[14:14:56] <jelly> I would think setup from a couple years ago does not seem relevant for current issue
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2053[14:15:32] <jim> probably, but it was working up until about 2 weeks ago
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2058[14:16:44] <jim> that's when I did a apt autoremove, and I guess that screwed things up for cadence (which probably doesn't have its package metadata right)
2059[14:17:33] <jim> after that, I could bring up the cadence panel but the user interface elements on that panel were all grayed out
2060[14:17:43] <Psyndrome> Thanks for the suggestions see you
2061[14:18:07] <jim> after that experience, I thought, no more cadence
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2065[14:19:19] <jim> and at least, it's been working consistantly
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2070[14:21:26] <jim> but now I want to add jackd back so the other pieces work the way they did
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2084[14:30:37] <jim> if I use pasuspender to start jack, when pulse tries to find the sink, will it find the jackd and connect to it?
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2091[14:34:14] <andi_> hello can somebody be so polite and pastebin the content of apt-get --print-uris --yes install wine | grep ^\' | cut -d\' -f2 >downloads.list the download.list file?
2092[14:34:33] <andi_> i don' thave a debian installation on my hands and need some packages for a offline install
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2095[14:35:07] <alkisg> I think you'd also need to specify which debian version
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2103[14:36:14] <jim> andi_, ok, you don't have debian installed? do you want to?
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2106[14:36:23] <andi_> Debian Gnu/Linux 9 4Kernel 4.9.144-3
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2108[14:36:45] <andi_> i have a debian installation up and running i just don't have access to the internet on the machine
2109[14:36:51] <jim> and the machine is not connected to the net/
2110[14:37:00] <jim> so no
2111[14:37:32] <jim> andi_, ther's apt-zip and apt-offline
2112[14:37:37] <andi_> yeah sadly i don't have a debian with internet availible
2113[14:38:02] <Kocane69> alkisg: turns out it was due to some idiotic scripting of mine in a monit conf.. not sure why I didnt notice it before now since it's been a while since I made that script. All in all, pretty embarresing but atleast the disk is OK
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2115[14:38:26] <Kocane69> and thanks for the assistance!
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2117[14:38:50] <alkisg> Kocane69: heh, strange that it was modifying all those kernel modules though; anyway, nice to hear you found it
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2119[14:40:23] <jim> andi_, what prevents you from connecting?
2120[14:40:55] <andi_> jim: system-admin :)
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2125[14:44:48] <kilobyte_ch> I'm trying to build a minimal debian rootfs for Arm. For that I'm using multistrap. With Debian 9 this works. But with Debian 10 I'm getting conflicts with multiple packages: replaced-url
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2127[14:45:32] <opv> hi all. i would like to disallow /dev/tcp access to bash
2128[14:45:39] <opv> do i understand it correctly that i would have to recompile the binary?
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2130[14:46:04] <greycat> Why do you want to prevent that, and how do you intend to prevent the users who WANT to use that shell feature from simply bringing their own bash?
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2133[14:46:49] <opv> server hardening
2134[14:46:56] <greycat> *plonk*
2135[14:46:59] <colo-work> :D
2136[14:46:59] <opv> users cannot bring in their own bash if they have nothing to transfer files with
2137[14:47:20] <colo-work> as long as they have a stdin and a stdout, they can "transfer files"
2138[14:47:35] <opv> true dat
2139[14:47:39] <colo-work> (and a writable filesystem location anywhere)
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2143[14:51:35] <epony> OpenBGPD 6.5p1 portable: released August 1st, 2019 [ replaced-url
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2167[15:01:40] <BCMM> opv: will you also stop them from writing a python script that access tcp, for example?
2168[15:01:53] <BCMM> opv: or one of many, many other ways?
2169[15:02:27] <BCMM> cutting off individual interfaces to a capability you don't want them to use is the wrong way to go
2170[15:02:37] <opv> BCMM: yeah, you're right
2171[15:02:44] <BCMM> opv: what *do* you want these users to be able to do?
2172[15:03:01] <opv> nothing :D
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2174[15:03:09] <BCMM> opv: so... don't give them accounts?
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2176[15:03:30] <opv> i don't have control over potentially vulnerable web applications, to name an example
2177[15:04:32] <BCMM> i don't understand...
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2179[15:04:43] <BCMM> oh i see
2180[15:04:56] <BCMM> post-exploitation mitigation or somesuch
2181[15:05:04] <opv> correct
2182[15:05:13] <BCMM> i'd been imagining this as giving shell accounts to users for a specific purpose, and trying to stop them using it for other purposes
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2184[15:05:27] <opv> my bad. shoulda been clearer
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2188[15:06:23] <karlpinc> opv: There's probably something radical you can do with SELinux. :-|
2189[15:06:24] <BCMM> opv: but yeah, if somebody malicious gets a shell, there's a million and one ways they could open a tcp socket
2190[15:06:31] <opv> i assume i could use tools like apparmor or SEL to prohibit the replaced-url
2191[15:06:57] <half-beard> ratrace, would you be able to advise me please on getting my new ubuntu install to be bootable?
2192[15:07:05] <greycat> ask #ubuntu
2193[15:07:11] <half-beard> sorry I meant debian
2194[15:07:19] <half-beard> lol
2195[15:07:22] <greycat> *plonk*
2196[15:07:30] <ratrace> and where did you pick me out of....
2197[15:07:33] <karlpinc> !errors
2198[15:07:33] <dpkg> If you don't tell us the exact error messages you get, we can't tell you what's wrong, and it's also useful to know exactly what command you're typing. Please look for the *first* error that occurs, as this is often the cause of later errors -- ask me about <localized errors> too. Please don't paste in the channel, use a pastebin instead; ask me about <pastebin>.
2199[15:07:35] <greycat> So it's going to be one of THESE days, is it.
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2202[15:07:50] <half-beard> sorry I use both so I mix up the names at times
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2205[15:08:47] <half-beard> this is what I've done: GPT1:4M Grub. GPT2:40G Windoze, GPT3:512M ext4 /boot, GPT4 LUKS. Then I mounted luks as myluks then created a zfspool on that. Then created a 10G ZVol in the zpool and formatted it with ext4 Now Debian is busy installing in that.
2206[15:08:57] <karlpinc> opv: A good first step is to not allow the replaced-url
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2209[15:09:29] <half-beard> When the install is done, before I reboot I'll create a ZFS filesystem, then rsync the root install to that.
2210[15:09:44] <half-beard> Then I need to setup /etc/crypttab such that it boots
2211[15:09:46] <opv> karlpinc: i'd love to, but it needs to be able to write cache files etc for the running CMS
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2213[15:10:09] <ratrace> half-beard: why on earth would you use zfs to create a zvol to format as ext4 to install debian into? o.O
2214[15:10:37] <half-beard> ratrace, the debian installer doesn't want to install to a ZFS
2215[15:10:40] <ratrace> i am also not aware of grub or any initramfs facility being able to pivot root to a zvol
2216[15:10:44] <half-beard> but it will install into a ext4 zvol
2217[15:10:50] <ratrace> yeah, no.
2218[15:10:51] <karlpinc> opv: Easiest is to isolete every app in it's own VM, or some such. If something gets broken into then the damage is limited.
2219[15:10:55] <ratrace> i never heard of this setup
2220[15:10:58] <half-beard> I will get rid of the zvol
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2222[15:11:09] <half-beard> Some ZFS guy told me he did this
2223[15:11:11] <ratrace> half-beard: just debootstrap with proper zfs datasets
2224[15:11:33] <ratrace> half-beard: then you'd have to ask that some zfs guy to help you with that quite unorthodox (if even possible at all) setup :)
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2228[15:12:14] <half-beard> well, if I rsync the fresh install into zfs, would that not be the same end result as debootrapping?
2229[15:12:38] <ratrace> half-beard: kinda, just make sure you adjust fstab, network and other configs, watch out for clashing UUIDs
2230[15:12:53] <half-beard> hmm
2231[15:13:06] <karlpinc> half-beard: The problem might be grub. Somehow the boot loader has to find the kernel (Although you do have a separate /boot so....)
2232[15:13:10] <ratrace> you'll need zfs-initramfs package for root on zfs
2233[15:13:32] <half-beard> ratrace, thanks, will install that
2234[15:14:00] <half-beard> ratrace, do you have an example /etc/crypttab that I can refer to for getting my luks partition decrypted on boot
2235[15:14:07] <ratrace> half-beard: but that's "zfs dataset", not zvol ; i don't think zvols are supported by initramfs-tools
2236[15:14:12] <half-beard> (this is is a workstation, not a dropbear thing)
2237[15:14:23] <opv> karlpinc: absolutely, we already do that. now looking at how to improve the situation
2238[15:15:02] <half-beard> ratrace, just to clear any miscommunication, the zvol is temporary, it's only while I'm installing.
2239[15:15:07] <ratrace> half-beard: "sda3_crypt UUID=.... none luks" adjust where necessary, man crypttab for info on columns
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2242[15:15:21] <ratrace> half-beard: no, zvol is a permanent block device
2243[15:15:29] <half-beard> ah damn, the installer crashed. Okay debootstrap it is
2244[15:15:45] <half-beard> ratrace, I maent I'd remove it after rsync, before I reboot
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2254[15:20:34] <ratrace> half-beard: btw which live/rescue env are you using, which has zfs available?
2255[15:20:52] <half-beard> need to reboot
2256[15:21:12] <half-beard> i installed ZFS into the live environment
2257[15:21:19] <half-beard> need to reboot cos this live environment is borked
2258[15:21:32] <ratrace> debian live env?
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2274[15:26:41] <half-beard> I'm going to give KDE a go on buster.
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2276[15:26:47] <jim> half-beard, here's what you don't understand yet... there have been a lot of projects that try to take what debian started, and try to add, repurpose, reshape or otherwise change it... and debian is already a fairly large distribution...
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2279[15:27:40] <half-beard> jim, in relation to?
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2282[15:28:22] <jim> half-beard, if you're running one of the projects that are derived from debian, there's a hidden expectation that the person you'd be asking to help you, knows the derived project equally... and that's a big expectation
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2285[15:29:47] <jim> half-beard, what dist do you run now, or do you want to run?
2286[15:29:49] <ratrace> difference between ubuntu and debian, for zfs, is that zfs packages pre-built zfs ; debian needs dkms, and currently there's a bug which requires you to install packages in very specific order, spl-dkms first, then zfs-dkms, then zfsutils-linux, which fails, modprobe zfs, then apt install -f ; none of that is needed on ubuntu
2287[15:30:03] <ratrace> so if this is really ubuntu, the above recommendation would fail
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2290[15:30:33] <greycat> And yet, people still somehow think "Hot damn, I want to do this!~"
2291[15:30:39] <greycat> Astonishing.
2292[15:30:48] <ratrace> but then ubuntu's zfs is different, patched to support a range of kernels and zfs versions
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2294[15:30:57] <jim> ratrace, oh, ubuntu has yet another packaging system?
2295[15:31:07] <ratrace> greycat: well it's a bug :) only apt install zfsutils-linux should suffice normally
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2297[15:31:24] <ratrace> jim: ?
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2299[15:31:34] <BCMM> opv: was going to suggest something on those lines... if there's a finite white-list of functions that something should perform, restrict it on that basis, rather than attempting to blacklist specific malicious actions
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2301[15:31:57] <jim> greycat, frankly, I was fairly surprised that debian has added additional packaging systems... I would have thought that was fairly insane
2302[15:31:59] <ratrace> %s/zfs packages pre-built zfs/ubuntu packages pre-built zfs/ lol
2303[15:32:10] <tarzeau> why do people want zfs?
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2305[15:32:20] <greycat> That's what I'm wondering too.
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2307[15:32:28] * tarzeau is happy with xfs and btrfs (for the compression part)
2308[15:32:37] <kreyren> Looking for zoom software on debian
2309[15:32:42] <jim> I don't know and not really wondering at the moment :)
2310[15:32:49] <tarzeau> and exfat
2311[15:33:00] <tarzeau> kreyren: homepage of it?
2312[15:33:03] <greycat> I think it's something related to SNS.
2313[15:33:07] <colo-work> tarzeau, because, for instance, replaced-url
2314[15:33:13] <kreyren> tarzeau, nah something that is able to zoom on something on screen
2315[15:33:31] <tarzeau> kreyren: a magnifier?
2316[15:33:41] <kreyren> tarzeau, correct
2317[15:33:43] <ratrace> people want zfs because they perceive btrfs as broken ; and it's really about "why do people want a CoW volume manager that protects against bitrot and has easy to use snapshots"
2318[15:34:10] <kreyren> tarzeau, ideally something that doesn't follow mouse cursor so that i could use 8K scren resolution for better workflow
2319[15:34:33] <kreyren> tarzeau, and something that is full screen
2320[15:34:45] <tarzeau> kreyren: you've got an 8k screen?
2321[15:34:58] <kreyren> tarzeau, yep
2322[15:35:05] <kreyren> not currently in use tho
2323[15:35:19] <tarzeau> because with linux it'd be of no use, right :)
2324[15:35:23] <greycat> I've seen a bunch of talk about zfs so far, and AT NO POINT while reading any of it did the words "easy to use" ever cross my mind.
2325[15:35:26] <tarzeau> it's even hard to use 4k screens with linux
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2328[15:35:51] <kreyren> tarzeau, usecase is for xorg --scale option so that i can zoom into 1080p on demand
2329[15:35:53] <ratrace> greycat: "zfs snapshot datasetname@snapshotname" what's easier than that? :)
2330[15:35:56] <kreyren> or in 4K on demand
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2334[15:37:34] <kreyren> ratrace, ideally using shortcut to zoom in cursor's current position, but never follow mouse cursor..
2335[15:37:52] <ratrace> I got a 35" curved AOC screen ; I deliberately did not want 4k because I did not want to need a magnifying glass (a literal, physical one), to hunt down what it says on the screen :) 8k? if that thing is not at least 60" then you'll need a microscope, not a magnifying glass
2336[15:38:17] <ratrace> kreyren: maybe you meant tarzeau ? ;)
2337[15:38:25] <kreyren> ratrace, yep sorry
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2339[15:38:54] <tarzeau> we're with 32" 2560x1440 or something like that
2340[15:40:42] * kreyren confused
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2343[15:42:29] <tarzeau> people can work without magnifying glass with that resolution/size
2344[15:43:44] <humpled> alt+mousewheel zooms sometimes
2345[15:44:30] <hwm4rgs> i use 3800x1800 on 13" daily with KDEs DPI scaling
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2347[15:44:36] <hwm4rgs> and 125% default zoom in chrome
2348[15:44:51] <tarzeau> i only have hidpi with retina hardware
2349[15:45:01] <tarzeau> (and software)
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2358[15:46:57] <wuseman> lmao, 3800x1800 on a 13" screen? You must have eyes like an eagle, must be very small text
2359[15:46:59] <kreyren> tarzeau, i can, but it's better with it
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2368[15:52:10] <Kocane69> Anyone got a suggestion for the best way to adjust permissions on /dev/dri/card0 and /dev/dri/renderD128?
2369[15:52:32] <Kocane69> Their groups are video and render but I think execute permission is needed, and missing.
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2376[15:58:04] <ratrace> Kocane69: for startx launched xorg?
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2384[16:02:30] <Kocane69> ratrace it's just a server, where I need em for hardware accelerated transcoding
2385[16:02:31] <Kocane69> vaapi
2386[16:02:50] <Kocane69> I guess a startup script that chmod 666 on the files could help but...
2387[16:03:51] <ratrace> or put the user that needs access to them, in those respective groups
2388[16:03:52] <greycat> Kocane69: in Debian, management of the ACLs of hardware device nodes (sound cards and such) is done during login by the systemd stuff.
2389[16:04:34] <greycat> Kocane69: Logins are tied to a concept called "seats", etc. A console login is supposed to grant access to the console hardware. An ssh login is not.
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2399[16:13:06] <alkisg> They're not chmod'ed /chown'ed by udev anymore?
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2404[16:14:38] <choff> hi guys, i am confuse about how to change locales in debian testing, i am following that replaced-url
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2407[16:17:26] <LtL> choff: use 'su -' to become root, for now use /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure
2408[16:17:48] <BCMM> is there a factoid for the change in su behaviour?
2409[16:17:53] <greycat> !buster su
2410[16:17:54] <dpkg> The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable. See replaced-url
2411[16:18:06] <BCMM> ah, thanks
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2417[16:20:31] <choff> LtL: thanks, it works!!
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2419[16:20:46] <LtL> choff: welcome
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2422[16:21:24] <LtL> Church-: be sure to read the factoid above.
2423[16:21:35] <gamblr> anybody from nevada?
2424[16:22:04] <tarzeau> !dir
2425[16:22:04] <dpkg> wrong OS, foo. CONFIG.SYS AUTOEXEC.BAT TEMP WINDOWS My Documents PROGRA~1
2426[16:22:22] <tarzeau> meanwhile there's /bin/dir
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2428[16:22:36] <tarzeau> comes from coreutils. i wonder why
2429[16:22:57] <tarzeau> !pwsh
2430[16:23:54] <greycat> dir(1) is GNU only, not POSIX... I can only guess it was written to help DOS users adjust to their new environment gently, but who knows
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2434[16:25:42] <Wulf> gamblr: 7.7E9 people on the planet, 3E6 people in Nevada. 1538 people here. A (too simple) formula would be 3E6 / 7.7E9 * 1538 = 0.6. Assuming that most people here are not from Asia and Nevada is a reasonable location for #debian people, there is a really high chance. So let's assume "yes".
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2440[16:27:27] <LtL> Church-: sorry about that.
2441[16:28:37] <kreyren> !paranoia
2442[16:28:37] <dpkg> methinks paranoia is good for you, or doesn't mean they aren't out to get you, or you should assume they are, though
2443[16:28:50] <kreyren> meh
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2446[16:29:39] <half-beard> ratrace, interesting. is that specific order of when you install ZFS stuff on debian an issue for booting?
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2448[16:30:30] <ratrace> half-beard: no, that's just bug in packaging
2449[16:31:17] <half-beard> jim, well I've been running 18.04 as my development machine's OS because it seems to be most compatible with most software I've wanted to install, then debian for all my containers, VMs, embedded devices, chroots on android and dedicated servers
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2451[16:31:56] <half-beard> but now 18.04 is old and I feel that ubuntu users are not particularly technical and have been enjoying the level of expertise in #debian type of conversations
2452[16:32:08] <half-beard> So I'm thinking to run Buster KDE for my dev machine now
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2455[16:32:54] <jim> half-beard, does that mean you're going to wipe/reinstall?
2456[16:33:01] <half-beard> jim, have already wiped
2457[16:33:10] <half-beard> I'm in a live thing now hehe
2458[16:33:14] <half-beard> nomans land
2459[16:33:23] <half-beard> :_(
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2461[16:33:34] <alkisg> You can move * to /old-installation, and install over that, no need to wipe before install...
2462[16:33:37] <ratrace> half-beard: just go debian 100% ; ubuntu is making up another NIH tool nobody else is gonna use, for zfs with zsys
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2465[16:34:03] <half-beard> alkisg, I've been thinking of trying root on ZFS
2466[16:34:11] <half-beard> so that's why I wiped
2467[16:34:15] <jim> I would have suggested you back up first... but, here we are...
2468[16:34:23] <half-beard> Also the possibility of a 40G windoze partition for Overwatch
2469[16:34:29] <alkisg> I'm thinking of migrating a school from ubuntu to debian. Apart from the firmware and adding contrib/non-free to sources.list, what else should I keep in mind?
2470[16:34:32] <jim> do you have buster installation media?
2471[16:34:40] <jhutchins_wk> Strange to receive a point release notice more than a month in advance.
2472[16:35:08] <ratrace> alkisg: that ubuntu has a lot of ubuntu-specific kernel patches for hardware enablement
2473[16:35:27] <alkisg> (the school computer lab will be maintained by the IT teacher, I'll only help when they have issues...)
2474[16:35:28] <half-beard> ratrace, what method do you recommend for installing buster on zfs?
2475[16:35:44] <ratrace> half-beard: debootstrap
2476[16:36:04] <half-beard> ratrace, replaced-url
2477[16:36:06] <alkisg> ratrace: thanks; I guess I'll see that part upon installation... are peripheral devices like printers/scanners/usb sticks affected?
2478[16:36:13] <half-beard> do you mean with the above guide?
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2480[16:37:01] <jhutchins_wk> alkisg: Do some test machines first, see what you're actually dealing with rather than trying to anticipate everything through speculation.
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2483[16:37:51] <alkisg> jhutchins_wk: we using ltsp, so we only install to 1 machine and netboot all others; I'll see about hardware compatibility when I do that first installation; I was wondering about other things that I won't see in the first hour...
2484[16:38:38] <alkisg> E.g. at some point gnome was using cantarell in debian, and didn't even have greek glyphs; I filed a bug report about it 5+ years ago but I'm not sure if it was solved...
2485[16:38:45] <ratrace> half-beard: i suppose so ; i haven't read it in detail though at a glance it looks a bit.... overreaching
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2488[16:38:55] <horribleprogram> sshing into my Debian just hangs
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2491[16:39:25] <ratrace> horribleprogram: and if you use -v on the client side? where does it stop
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2494[16:40:32] <horribleprogram> Authenticataed to 192.168.0.10 ([192.168.0.10]:22) ... a few debug1's ... debug1: sending env LANG = en_CA.UTF-8
2495[16:40:47] <horribleprogram> ohh after a few seconds
2496[16:40:58] <horribleprogram> packet_write_wait: Connection to 192.168.0.10 port 22: Broken pipe
2497[16:41:25] <horribleprogram> systemctl status ssh -> active (running)
2498[16:41:39] <horribleprogram> i just updated my OS through the stupid ass GUI notification thingy
2499[16:41:42] <horribleprogram> and it stopped working
2500[16:41:44] <ratrace> horribleprogram: and journalctl -u ssh.service ?
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2503[16:42:41] <horribleprogram> Aug 01 10:39:43 horribleprogramDebian sshd[2176]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for user horribleprogram by (uid=0)
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2505[16:43:15] <horribleprogram> lemme try restarting the service
2506[16:43:24] <half-beard> ratrace, I thought it looked a bit overboard
2507[16:43:42] <half-beard> ratrace, what are the basic steps you perform when you do a debian zfs install?
2508[16:44:16] <half-beard> ratrace, would you say a debian live ISO is required or could I do it from an ubuntu one? since it's debootstrapping, ubuntu live should work?
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2513[16:44:44] <half-beard> I'd be debootstrapping buster onto the zfs
2514[16:44:58] <ratrace> half-beard: essentially you need section "2.4b LUKS", you don't need a separate bpool, separating /var and friends into datasets is okay, but you'll need legacy mounts, systemd has a race condition since it takes zfs-mount.service to mount if not legacy
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2516[16:45:13] <ratrace> half-beard: ubuntu live is okay
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2518[16:45:38] <half-beard> ratrace, by legacy mounts do you mean /etc/fstab?
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2520[16:45:54] <ratrace> half-beard: yea
2521[16:46:32] <ratrace> zfs is a .... weird kitchen sink. normally you don't use mount(8) with it, but its own commands
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2523[16:47:02] <half-beard> Yeah, I'm currently questioning why I should even run root on ZFS at all
2524[16:47:04] <ratrace> for that, there's a zfs-mount.service that mounts the datasets, but that service is started after systemd requires /var, /usr and other important bits, thus you need legacy mounts via fstab which are done much earlier in boot
2525[16:47:09] <half-beard> makes life a lot more complicated
2526[16:47:32] <half-beard> Perhaps I should just stick with LVM for my roots and just keep using ZFS for VM's
2527[16:47:42] <ratrace> half-beard: zfs on linux is pretty much broken ; especially due to its license, its future compatibility with the linux kernel is questionable
2528[16:47:49] <ratrace> half-beard: btrfs ain't that bad
2529[16:48:13] <half-beard> yeah, I'm thinking because zfs on linux is so uncertain... I like being able to boot reliably.
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2532[16:48:27] <half-beard> I'd rather use ZFS for VM's and so on.
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2535[16:48:42] <half-beard> At least if there's an issue I can still boot.
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2537[16:49:07] <ratrace> it'll be interesting to see how zfs goes with debian 10.1 ; it incldues 4.19.38+ kernel which breaks zfs, which needs simd patched out ::: there's a patch with newer fixes for 5.x and ported kernels, dunno if it'll be included, it's deemed "new feature"
2538[16:49:22] <ratrace> so yeah... interesting times ahead for zfs on debian
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2549[16:56:17] <jhutchins_wk> What's wrong with ext4?
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2551[16:57:29] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: no interesting features like compression, snapshots, bitrot protection
2552[16:58:05] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, but it works. LVM if you want snapshots. compression is a minefield.
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2554[16:58:48] <ratrace> lvm snapshots are very buggy and functionally not the same as CoW snapshots ala btrfs/zfs
2555[16:59:01] <ratrace> why is compression a minefield?
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2558[16:59:40] <jhutchins_wk> ratrace: Because you have a deliberately unrealistic notion of available space based on projected compression efficiency.
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2560[16:59:54] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: you havent' used zfs then :)
2561[17:00:02] <ratrace> zfs is used by many professional/enterprise storage appliance vendors ; albeit based on FreeNAS :: on FreeBSD ZFS reigns supreme
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2565[17:01:08] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: on btrfs compression is hard to track because btrfs deals with extents and can actually have very mixed profiles within single filesystem (single, dup, raidX, ...)
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2567[17:01:31] <ratrace> zfs does no such thing and works at block level, with vdevs, and can easily track free space, compression
2568[17:02:01] <ratrace> but then your vdev is fixed, you can't enlarge it etc... so it's a balance of features ; can't have both
2569[17:02:26] <bindi> half-beard: nothing uncertain about zfsonlinux
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2589[17:10:57] <GenTooMan> I am using debian Buster, I was attempting to run nrsc5 when I received this mess "Please fix the device permissions, e.g. by installing the udev rules file rtl-sdr.rules", whereas I know where the rules are etc. it's weird they aren't already their as I installed the drivers...
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2594[17:11:43] <petn-randall> GenTooMan: Which package is this?
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2598[17:13:50] <GenTooMan> petn-randall rtl-sdr/Software defined radio receiver for Realtek RTL2832U (tools)|librtlsdr0/Software defined radio receiver for Realtek RTL2832U (library)|librtlsdr-dev/Software defined radio receiver for Realtek RTL2832U (development)
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2602[17:15:58] <petn-randall> Maybe the udev rules have some side effects? Might be documented in the README.Debian.
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2606[17:19:01] <GenTooMan> hmmm I don't remember this problem in stretch well the rules are located in /lib/udev/rules.d I will reread the rules debian documentation, it's weird because I found the RULES (searching) file but it's not installed. I'll have to reinit udev too.. argh.
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2616[17:25:00] <t00reaper> msg dpkg stretch
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2665[17:50:47] <half-beard> bindi, what I meant about the uncertainty, is that you might find your system doesn't boot after an upgrade
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2667[17:50:58] <half-beard> not that it won't work in the long term. I know it will.
2668[17:51:04] <half-beard> anyways, gonna reboot
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2724[18:38:44] <grobi> hello !:)
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2728[18:40:50] <grobi> since some days the trackpoint buttons of my t420 or right- and middle- mouseclick doesn't work any longer.
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2732[18:42:01] <grobi> could this probably be due to one of the last update and upgrade of stretch ?
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2736[18:45:54] <diogenes_> grobi, it could.
2737[18:46:04] <Vanfanel> /msg NickServ identify brightblade
2738[18:46:07] <Vanfanel> oops, sorry
2739[18:46:09] *** msdoos is now known as msdoof
2740[18:46:39] <diogenes_> Vanfanel, cobgrats, now we all know your password :)
2741[18:46:46] <diogenes_> cobrats*
2742[18:46:47] <grobi> diogenes_: did you experience the same??
2743[18:46:55] <Vanfanel> diogenes_: yeah, so it seems XD
2744[18:47:08] <diogenes_> grobi, no i don't because i never upgrade.
2745[18:47:18] <grobi> :)
2746[18:47:22] <msdoof> yeah it is great, that also happened to me and it was the same password as my e-mail-account and i did not change after posting it to irc :)
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2748[18:47:59] <grobi> do you have any hint, where to look?
2749[18:48:47] <diogenes_> grobi, apt list --installed | grep synaptics
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2751[18:48:51] <diogenes_> what do you get?
2752[18:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1566
2753[18:49:58] <grobi> WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
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2755[18:50:10] <diogenes_> is that all?
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2758[18:50:45] <grobi> yes
2759[18:51:01] <Vanfanel> I am having a strange problem with a minimal Debian buster install: apt-get says "Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), is another process using it?", but the system just booted and there are no graphical frontends to apt in this system. If I delete /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend, apt-get creates it again when I run it, and fails.... any idea?
2760[18:51:10] <diogenes_> grand now: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
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2762[18:51:21] <diogenes_> sorry grobi ^^^^
2763[18:51:57] <EoflaOE> Vanfanel: Pastebin the output of fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend
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2765[18:52:13] <grobi> x11
2766[18:52:26] <diogenes_> grobi, ok now: sudo apt install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
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2770[18:53:34] <grobi> diogenes_: i did
2771[18:53:35] <alkisg> Vanfanel: automatic updates? is apt running on boot? check with ps
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2774[18:53:49] <diogenes_> grobi, now reboot and it should be fine.
2775[18:54:11] <grobi> ok, fine thank you diogenes_ :)
2776[18:54:28] <diogenes_> no problem, hopefully it worked :)
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2781[18:54:50] <Vanfanel> EoflaOE: fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend does not show anything
2782[18:54:57] <Vanfanel> the file DOES exist, however
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2785[18:55:28] <EoflaOE> Vanfanel: Can you try the same command but with sudo in the beginning?
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2787[18:55:31] <Vanfanel> alkisg: there is not automatic updates or any other service running apt automatically. The lock file is created WHEN I run apt
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2789[18:55:51] <Vanfanel> EoflaOE: I am root, its the only user on that small system I am building
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2791[18:56:22] <Vanfanel> EoflaOE: it seems the lock file is created when I run apt... not before
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2793[18:56:41] <Vanfanel> but it causes apt (well, dpkg) to fail
2794[18:56:49] <alkisg> Vanfanel: what file system are you using?
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2797[18:56:58] <Vanfanel> alkisg: EXT4
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2799[18:57:52] <Vanfanel> strangely enough, it does not happen on a chrooted session to the same rootfs: if I am chrooted, apt works well
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2801[18:58:40] <Vanfanel> could it be kernel-related? I had to build a custom small 4.19 kernel and disabled a lot of filesystem options
2802[18:58:49] <jmcnaught> Vanfanel: is the unattended-upgrades package installed?
2803[18:59:05] <Vanfanel> jmcnaught: nope
2804[18:59:23] <alkisg> Vanfanel: play with the "flock" command to see if locks work fine
2805[18:59:34] <Vanfanel> as I said, the lock seems to be created by apt itself...
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2808[19:01:27] <ratrace> Vanfanel: "I had to build a custom small 4.19 kernel and disabled a lot of filesystem options" :: like what?
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2813[19:02:58] <grobi> diogenes_: it did not work..
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2815[19:04:13] <diogenes_> grobi, then create a new user, it might be some misconfigs and if it works with the new user, then the problem lies in your /home/user/.
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2817[19:04:32] <grobi> aha ok
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2823[19:06:36] <Vanfanel> ratrace: like EXT4 ACCESS CONTROL LISTS, Security labels, encryption, debugging... no one of these was needed with an Stretch system for APT/DPKG to work
2824[19:08:35] <Vanfanel> alkisg: flock seems to work fine. Anything special to try?
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2838[19:19:56] <Akuw> what software is there to copy iso to usb?
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2843[19:24:36] <grobi> diogenes_ it also didn't work with the new user so it is possibly not a misconfig..
2844[19:24:59] <jhutchins_wk> Vanfanel: Does ps ax | grep apt show anything?
2845[19:25:01] <jhutchins_wk> ?
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2847[19:25:05] <jhutchins_wk> ?
2848[19:25:14] <jhutchins_wk> Gah, sorry.
2849[19:25:45] <Vanfanel> jhutchins_wk: no, I tried just in case some scrip/service/whatever was using apt, but no, the lock is created only when I manually run apt
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2851[19:26:58] <jhutchins_wk> Vanfanel: Can you try apt-get?
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2853[19:27:13] <Vanfanel> jhutchins_wk: I have tried several times, with the same result
2854[19:27:31] <jhutchins_wk> Vanfanel: It soulds like something could be wrong with the database.
2855[19:27:49] <jhutchins_wk> Vanfanel: It's creating the lock, crashing, and not cleaning up.
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2857[19:28:30] <jhutchins_wk> I don't understand what you said about chroot though, are you building a new system from an old one, or are you chroot'ing to / ?
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2866[19:33:50] <Vanfanel> jhutchins_wk: I am chrooting to the / of a system I am creating from debootstrap, the target system is aarch64
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2874[19:39:26] <useretail> hey guys, how to fix broken apt? i'm getting libgl1 : Depends: libglx0 (= 1.1.0-1) but it is not going to be installed, but it's installed
2875[19:39:44] <useretail> libgl1-mesa-glx : Depends: libglx-mesa0 but it is not going to be installed
2876[19:39:50] <useretail> libkf5coreaddons5 : Breaks: libkf5auth5 (< 5.54) but 5.28.0-2+deb9u1 is to be installed
2877[19:39:56] <useretail> Breaks: libkf5globalaccel-bin (< 5.54) but 5.28.0-1 is to be installed
2878[19:40:01] <useretail> libkf5crash5 : Breaks: libkf5globalaccel-bin (< 5.54) but 5.28.0-1 is to be installed
2879[19:40:07] <useretail> E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
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2881[19:40:37] <jmcnaught> useretail: please use replaced-url
2882[19:40:40] <jmcnaught> !bat
2883[19:40:40] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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2885[19:41:07] <ZaZaGX> Debian 10 is my new favor linux base operating system
2886[19:41:25] <dvs> why?
2887[19:41:36] <weedloser> lol
2888[19:41:49] <dvs> just curious
2889[19:41:55] <useretail> jmcnaught, sure, sorry about that
2890[19:42:20] *** Quits: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2891[19:42:26] <ZaZaGX> Well, in the Big Bang Theory sitcom. Sheldon Cooper says its Ubuntu is his favor.
2892[19:42:36] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip)
2893[19:42:36] <weedloser> hahahah
2894[19:42:44] *** Joins: monkey-b2 (~monkey-b@replaced-ip)
2895[19:42:50] <ZaZaGX> you can even youtube it
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2899[19:43:41] <weedloser> sheldon cooper from big bong theory is my favourite technology advisor
2900[19:43:58] <Kocane> Anyone using ZFS on Debian who can help me figure out how to ensure that ZFS pool is mounted before a service start? Should [Unit] After = local-fs.target zfs-import.target be sufficient?
2901[19:44:01] <dvs> O_O
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2904[19:46:30] <useretail> here is complete pastebin: replaced-url
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2906[19:46:49] <useretail> is there a command that allows to re-install package and/or fix cache?
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2913[19:49:48] <jmcnaught> useretail: which release of Debian is this?
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2915[19:51:04] <useretail> it was debian 9 which is unable to upgrade itself to 10 because of dependency problems
2916[19:51:25] <Ede|Popede> is there something like diff for strings instead of lines?
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2920[19:51:39] <useretail> so it's 9 with 60-70% packages from 10
2921[19:51:57] <jmcnaught> useretail: so you are in the middle of the stretch→buster upgrade? Can you make pastes of the rest of the information requested by dpkg in the !bat factoid?
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2925[19:52:50] <OS-46289> /join #offsec
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2931[19:56:34] <useretail> jmcnaught, replaced-url
2932[19:56:38] <useretail> replaced-url
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2941[19:59:15] <jmcnaught> useretail: so are you partway through a Debian 9 to 10 upgrade? What does "apt upgrade" want to do? Also I strongly recommend to use codenames in your sources.list ('buster' not 'stable')
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2948[20:01:24] <useretail> jmcnaught, 9 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 770 not upgraded. Need to get 414 MB/417 MB of archives.
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2950[20:01:54] <jmcnaught> useretail: did you do "apt full-upgrade" (also were you following the upgrade instructions in the release notes?)
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2953[20:02:48] <useretail> jmcnaught, no, only apt upgrade. i can't upgrade those 770 packages because of the dependency errors
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2955[20:04:10] <jmcnaught> useretail: can you show the output of 'apt full-upgrade' so we have a clearer idea of what you mean?
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2974[20:20:40] <useretail> jmcnaught, it's running now. will show output asap
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2980[20:26:48] <Vanfanel> Could recent versions of DPKG depend on some obscure kernel option on which it did not depend before? Related to file locking, since thats what I am having problems wit
2981[20:26:52] <Vanfanel> *with
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2991[20:31:10] <karlpinc> I'm curious why debootstrap does not install the "locales" package. (My chroot was unhappy until I installed locales and did a dpkg-reconfigure.)
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2993[20:32:38] <vlt> karlpinc: debootstrap without --include=... only installs a very basic system.
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3001[20:40:21] <alkisg> karlpinc: if you chroot and use LANG=C or C.UTF-8, it shouldn't be unhappy, even without locales
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3003[20:40:57] <greycat> "unhappy" means it worked well enough that you were able to chroot in and install the locales you wanted
3004[20:41:34] <greycat> somewhat different from "not working"
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3024[20:49:18] <Vanfanel> It seems flock was not working well after all :( I left FILE LOCKING API deactivated in the kernel. Stupid thing to do!
3025[20:49:28] <Vanfanel> Thanks to all who tried to help me
3026[20:49:39] <Vanfanel> apt-get is working now!
3027[20:49:39] <alkisg> :)
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3029[20:50:07] <Vanfanel> building custom small kernels is a can or worms :D
3030[20:50:15] <Vanfanel> an eeeeendlesss can or worms
3031[20:50:24] <Vanfanel> but its fun,somehow
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3033[20:51:04] <sid> I have a problem with chromium on debian sid
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3035[20:51:37] <sid> No extensions work and keep crashing
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3038[20:52:15] <alkisg> Vanfanel: with the stock jessie kernel, I'm getting only 8 MB RAM used right after boot, how much smaller do you need it, or is it about space, not RAM?
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3041[20:52:37] <Vanfanel> alkisg: its about space, not RAM :P
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3043[20:53:13] <alkisg> oki
3044[20:53:14] <Vanfanel> alkisg: also, I use buster, not jessie, with a 4.19 kernel
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3046[20:53:36] <alkisg> Yeah, it was the one that I remembered
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3048[20:53:49] <alkisg> I imagine 4.19 won't need a lot more
3049[20:53:59] <alkisg> But since it's space, not ram, nvm
3050[20:54:07] <jhutchins_wk> alkisg: Probably a good idea to upgrade to at least stretch soon.
3051[20:54:42] <jhutchins_wk> alkisg: After releases get too stale it gets hard to get support upgrading them.
3052[20:54:45] <alkisg> jhutchins_wk: I have about 20 vms, I want to be able to test software in various distro/versions...
3053[20:54:54] <jhutchins_wk> Hm
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3055[20:55:34] <jhutchins_wk> alkisg: Well, good of you to keep supporting the old releases then.
3056[20:55:44] <alkisg> :)
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3079[21:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1560
3080[21:09:22] <grobi> diogenes_: also on a new user the middle- and the right- click buttons of the thinkpad trackpoint won't work
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3083[21:09:57] <diogenes_> grobi, what DE?
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3088[21:10:31] <grobi> is there a possibility to test if they work at all??
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3090[21:10:46] <grobi> meinst du auf deutsch?
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3092[21:11:13] <dvs> What Desktop Environment
3093[21:11:18] <dvs> (DE)
3094[21:12:18] <diogenes_> and there is a possibility, if it worked in the previous version before upgrading then write a usb with the previous version and boot a live session.
3095[21:12:21] <grobi> aha :) i use two things xfce (my default) but mostly i use my i3wm session
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3158[21:47:54] <ILikeTrainsBecau> I like trains
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3160[21:49:54] <ILikeTrainsBecau> I REALLY like trains
3161[21:49:59] <ZaZaGX> Sheldon Cooper likes trains
3162[21:50:07] <ILikeTrainsBecau> I guess
3163[21:50:08] <ILikeTrainsBecau> so
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3169[21:54:48] <ZaZaGX> that person was weird
3170[21:55:06] <greycat> And also offtopic. For future reference, discussion of trains goes to #debian-offtopic.
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3175[21:58:01] <vishal> could someone point me to a URL for the debian 10 default kernel config? (x86_64 fwiw)
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3180[22:00:46] <vishal> alternatively cat /boot/config-$(uname -r) | dpaste or so should work too from anyone running debian 10
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3182[22:02:29] <greycat> replaced-url
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3185[22:02:55] <vishal> thanks greycat!
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3191[22:05:39] <vishal> greycat: hm, that seems incomplete? (only 246 lines)
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3194[22:05:51] <vishal> are there other sources that append to this?
3195[22:06:30] <vishal> Ah I see config/config in that hierarchy
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3200[22:09:02] <greycat> I have no idea how it works. It was the first thing I found.
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3206[22:10:13] <vishal> I *think* I found everything I was looking for in the configs dir. A pastebin from someone running it on amd64 would be nice for confirmation though.
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3208[22:10:40] <diogenes_> the config is also present in the .disk dir on debian iso.
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3210[22:11:28] <vishal> right, I didn't have an iso or an install on hand, I figured someone here must be running it that I can snag a paste off
3211[22:11:43] <diogenes_> vishal, wait i'm uloading it.
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3213[22:12:33] <diogenes_> my bad, it's not in the .disk but in the live/ dir.
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3220[22:15:11] <diogenes_> vishal, ok here: replaced-url
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3222[22:15:22] <diogenes_> 8638 lines.
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3227[22:17:31] <vishal> diogenes_: thanks!
3228[22:17:41] <diogenes_> yw
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3235[22:21:33] <TradeGirl97> +++ Anyone wants trading? Add me and let's trade nudes::: replaced-url
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3238[22:22:05] <diogenes_> again trains
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3254[22:29:41] <n00buser> when booting debian 10 i see a message "resuming from hibernation" and after that black screen with cursor
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3258[22:30:22] <n00buser> any ideas where to look?
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3265[22:31:26] <n00buser> how to disable hibernation and do a fresh boot?
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3268[22:33:03] <humpled> so you don't get to log in at all?
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3270[22:33:46] <n00buser> humpled, sddm starts, but i don't see login screen
3271[22:34:04] <nunllk> one question regarding debian install: I am installing on a clean pc without any OS installed but still the installer says that he found "other os installed in BIOS mode", why?
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3273[22:35:27] <diogenes_> n00buser, /ect/default/grub remove the resume=xxx line and then sudo update-grub
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3275[22:35:42] <diogenes_> /etc/default/grub*
3276[22:35:50] <nunllk> im using the graphical installer
3277[22:36:00] <nunllk> what do i do to achieve what u are suggesting?
3278[22:36:01] <Bushmills> nunllk: a remainder of a previously installed OS - it's partition may still be there, and Debian installer concludes from its presence that there must be another system
3279[22:36:16] <nunllk> i disconnected all other drives
3280[22:36:21] <nunllk> only the clean drive is connected
3281[22:36:52] <Bushmills> any partitions on that clean drive?
3282[22:36:56] <n00buser> diogenes_, well, there's no such line
3283[22:36:58] <diogenes_> nunllk, because bios still keeps it's record on that drive i suppose.
3284[22:37:06] <nunllk> no partitoons on the drive
3285[22:37:09] <nunllk> fully wiped
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3287[22:37:54] <n00buser> nunllk, you may have other drives (just guessing)
3288[22:37:57] *** Quits: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3289[22:38:02] <nunllk> i wrote zeros to the drive that is conncted
3290[22:38:08] <nunllk> and no other drive is connected
3291[22:38:19] <diogenes_> n00buser, you checked GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=?
3292[22:38:29] <nunllk> the only sata cable on my board is the one coming from the clean, wiped drive
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3294[22:38:35] <greycat> nunllk: I'd let it finish the install, then see what the GRUB menu says it found
3295[22:38:39] <nunllk> the mssd i put out too
3296[22:38:39] <n00buser> diogenes_, it says only "quiet"
3297[22:38:53] <diogenes_> n00buser, what DE?
3298[22:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1554
3299[22:39:02] <nunllk> i want to make sure that i am installing clean
3300[22:39:14] <nunllk> and i cant explain myself why debian installer is popping that warning
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3303[22:39:34] <nunllk> so only remainings of old systems could be in bios
3304[22:39:37] <nunllk> i guess?
3305[22:39:51] <diogenes_> nunllk, are you installing in uefi or legacy mode?
3306[22:39:55] <nunllk> in uefi
3307[22:39:57] <greycat> again, the easiest way to find out what it found, is to look and see what it writes to the GRUB menu
3308[22:40:00] <humbot> how did you make the installer?
3309[22:40:01] <n00buser> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet"
3310[22:40:10] <diogenes_> nunllk, then make sure your drive is gpt formatted.
3311[22:40:23] <n00buser> diogenes_, if that's what you're asking
3312[22:40:26] <nunllk> you mean the clean wiped drive?
3313[22:40:38] <nunllk> or the installer usb stick?
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3315[22:40:42] <diogenes_> n00buser, DE=Desktop Environment
3316[22:40:49] <n00buser> diogenes_, KDE
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3318[22:41:30] <nunllk> ok i will reformat usb and give the wiped drive gpt
3319[22:41:32] <nunllk> then test again
3320[22:41:38] <humbot> maybe if a usb installer was made with a 3rd party tool instead of cp or dd, it would look like an OS
3321[22:42:28] <nunllk> what is the recommended way of making netinst usb stick?
3322[22:42:33] <nunllk> im on debian now too
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3324[22:42:51] <dvs> nunllk, either cp or dd
3325[22:42:59] <nunllk> k
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3328[22:44:20] <mtn> n00buser: when it stops booting, does ctrl+alt+f3 work?
3329[22:45:07] <diogenes_> n00buser, you can try to disable swap and see if you get the same thing.
3330[22:45:09] <n00buser> mtn, it starts sddm and after that stops. yes
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3332[22:45:28] <mtn> n00buser: it sounds like a video driver problem. did you change drivers?
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3335[22:47:29] <n00buser> mtn, i already tried nouveau.modeset=0 and update-grub. nothing
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3337[22:47:53] <mtn> n00buser: did you change drivers? or is this a new install?
3338[22:47:53] <n00buser> diogenes_, a comment in /etc/fstab enough?
3339[22:48:07] <diogenes_> yes
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3341[22:48:24] <n00buser> diogenes_, no changes
3342[22:48:50] *** Joins: sedrosken (~sedrosken@replaced-ip)
3343[22:48:50] <diogenes_> did you reboot?
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3347[22:49:29] <n00buser> diogenes_, sure. after reboot it even remembers cursor position :)
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3349[22:49:46] <diogenes_> do you dual boot with win btw?
3350[22:49:47] <n00buser> mtn, no. it was apt full-upgrade
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3353[22:50:05] <mtn> n00buser: were you running the nvidia driver?
3354[22:50:06] <n00buser> diogenes_, no, just debian 10
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3356[22:50:17] <diogenes_> also disable session save.
3357[22:50:18] <n00buser> mtn, yes
3358[22:50:45] <diogenes_> and clear the sessions.
3359[22:50:48] <mtn> n00buser: it didn't build the nvidia module and you need to reinstall the driver
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3361[22:51:09] <n00buser> diogenes_, any hints how to do this?
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3363[22:51:43] <diogenes_> rm ~/.cache/sessions
3364[22:52:02] <diogenes_> rm ~/.cache/sessions/*
3365[22:52:03] <n00buser> mtn, but i see the cursor
3366[22:52:29] <mtn> n00buser: you will see that without the nvidia driver working.
3367[22:54:35] <Vanfanel> Do you guys know where is the "Debian GNU/Linux 10" message printed on ttys?
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3369[22:55:04] <Habbie> Vanfanel, do you mean /etc/issue ?
3370[22:55:11] <n00buser> mtn, how to check if driver is loaded?
3371[22:55:18] <Vanfanel> Habbie: quite possibly, thanks!! :)
3372[22:55:26] <Habbie> Vanfanel, also /etc/issue.netthen
3373[22:55:29] <Habbie> Vanfanel, also /etc/issue.net then
3374[22:55:40] <Habbie> Vanfanel, also 'man issue' then :)
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3376[22:55:55] <mtn> n00buser: I install inxi and run: inxi -Gx
3377[22:56:00] <n00buser> diogenes_, no changes
3378[22:57:29] <n00buser> mtn, it says driver: nvidia v:340.107
3379[22:57:59] <mtn> n00buser: I still think the driver needs to be reinstalled. why not try it?
3380[22:59:00] <n00buser> mtn, well, it's proprietary + obsolete and is not available from debian repos anymore
3381[22:59:05] <nunllk> fixed!
3382[22:59:12] <nunllk> i made usb stick with dd
3383[22:59:20] <nunllk> and gave the clean disk gpt partition scheme
3384[22:59:26] <nunllk> ty boyz xD
3385[22:59:29] <diogenes_> n00buser, then only 3 things that come to mind are: 1) look in /etc/X11/ and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d for any suspicious configs 2) rename ~/.config folder 3) sudo apt purge nvidia*
3386[22:59:42] <mtn> n00buser: did you try booting with nomodeset in grub?
3387[22:59:45] <greycat> I see lots of packages with "nvidia" and "340" in their names.
3388[22:59:53] <nunllk> btw
3389[22:59:56] <Vanfanel> Habbie: Do you happen to know what service allows CTRL+ALT+Fn TTY changing??
3390[22:59:59] <nunllk> do you recommend using LVM?
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3392[23:00:24] <greycat> Vanfanel: That's the Linux kernel itself, but it's configured by some voodoo deep inside systemd...
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3395[23:01:02] <Vanfanel> greycat: thing is, I have disabled every uneeded service, and now I can NOT change to different TTYs
3396[23:01:10] <greycat> E.g. Ctrl-Alt-F8 takes me to tty8 but there is nothing *running* on tty8, so I just get the black screen with cursor.
3397[23:01:31] <greycat> So the actual switching-of-virtual-consoles is done by Linux itself, and the lack of anything running there is (not) done by systemd units.
3398[23:02:17] <greycat> And there is probably some way to tell Linux "only support 6 virtual consoles, not 24" or whatever. I do not happen to know what that might be.
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3405[23:05:25] <n00buser> greycat, my chipset is not supported in newer versions of proprietary drivers
3406[23:05:42] <n00buser> mtn, just tried. nothing
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3410[23:07:16] <greycat> /etc/default/console-setup has ACTIVE_CONSOLES="/dev/tty[1-6]"
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3412[23:07:27] <Vanfanel> greycat: I have fixed the problem. I dont use static TTYs, so I only have those enabled as services by me. And I had forgot to enable the tty2 :D
3413[23:07:29] <Vanfanel> thanks!!
3414[23:07:37] <greycat> which may or may not control the number of gettys that get spawned, who the heck knows
3415[23:08:20] <greycat> I also know that getty@.service is involved somehow.
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3418[23:10:08] <Habbie> Vanfanel, as was basically said - it's a kernel feature, but it relies on those ttys actually having something running, which these days is indeed managed by systemd
3419[23:10:13] <Vanfanel> greycat: if the static ttys are disabled, well, only those launched by getty@.service are spawned
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3443[23:28:36] <n00buser> diogenes_, just did all 3 steps, no changes
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3447[23:30:03] <Akuw> i just created a yumi usb boot debian but cant boot
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3450[23:31:02] <Akuw> i used 2 diferents USB pendrives
3451[23:31:06] <Akuw> none cant boot
3452[23:31:16] <Akuw> is the first time it happen
3453[23:31:39] <Akuw> i used 2 diferent software to create booteable usb pendrive
3454[23:31:45] <n00buser> Akuw, you should dd the iso to your usb drive
3455[23:31:46] <Habbie> Akuw, have you booted from usb on that machine before?
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3458[23:32:17] <Akuw> i am trying in 2 diferent, one laptop and server
3459[23:32:29] <Akuw> both has boot from USB configures
3460[23:32:44] <Akuw> i made this many tmes, but now is not possible to boot
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3463[23:32:55] <n00buser> Akuw, use dd to transfer the image to usb
3464[23:33:15] <n00buser> or check with another usb
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3467[23:34:09] <nunllk> anyone hint me to the package for mainboard chipdrivers for AB350?
3468[23:34:10] <Akuw> this --> dd if='debian.iso' of=/dev/sdc bs=4096
3469[23:34:45] <greycat> I prefer a larger block size, 64k or more
3470[23:35:17] <n00buser> Akuw, yes
3471[23:35:19] <greycat> or you could just use cp and let it choose the block size
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3473[23:36:44] <Akuw> why using yumi or rufus i cant boot?
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3475[23:36:55] <greycat> !rufus
3476[23:36:56] <dpkg> rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
3477[23:37:14] <greycat> !yumi
3478[23:37:14] <dpkg> yumi is probably a tool that can make bootable usb device. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>
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3483[23:40:59] <nunllk> firmware-amd-graphics, firmware-linux-nonfree, firmware-misc-nonfree firmware-realtek and nvidia-driver included all drivers i needed
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3517[23:59:17] *** Quits: fonefreak (~root@replaced-ip) (Quit: BitchX-1.2.1 -- just do it.)
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3519[23:59:58] *** Quits: clturfu (~futur@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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