4[00:01:39] <dstaring> Does anyone know of a reliable site which lists the actual e-mail addresses for companies to contact them? I've wasted a million hours by now looking through Bosch's website and all they have is a retarded e-mail form which forces me to send a bunch of data to Google, and lacks a file upload feature, so I can't attach my photo which is required to get help.
5[00:02:06] <emyd> got it, reloading amdgpu brought up the relevant message
29[00:13:05] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~isaac@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
30[00:13:45] <Lady_Aleena> During the upgrade from Stretch to Buster, I got two messages that concern me. 1) LOCALE: Can not set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory. 2) ... dependency problems, but removing anyways as requested. Should either of those bother me after the upgrade?
49[00:21:00] <petn-randall> Lady_Aleena: You can probably fix the locale by running `dpkg-reconfigure locales`, and then ensuring the one you use is selected.
50[00:21:04] <zumba_addict> what is GREB?
51[00:21:40] <klys> zumba_addict, those are flags to prevent dpkg from doing something unexpected, you can read `man dpkg' for more info.
52[00:21:48] <zumba_addict> k
53[00:21:55] <zumba_addict> like a safety measure
54[00:22:17] <Lady_Aleena> petn-randall, how do I find out if it were set after reboot?
55[00:22:51] <mutante> apt or apt-get install should work on local files but you have to copy them to /var/cache/apt/ first afair
56[00:23:02] <zumba_addict> is -B safe? kinda worried about it
57[00:23:13] <Lady_Aleena> I mean, I just looked up "locale", and everything seems to be in order.
58[00:23:45] <klys> zumba_addict, if it installs your package it will tell you that it did.
59[00:23:53] <zumba_addict> k
60[00:23:55] <petn-randall> Lady_Aleena: Was that during upgrade, or when you also open console?
61[00:24:05] <zumba_addict> The default action is to keep your current version.
62[00:24:06] <petn-randall> Lady_Aleena: During upgrade that can happen and I'd consider it normal.
63[00:24:16] <zumba_addict> I should say Y because i want my old config
64[00:24:20] <zumba_addict> correct?
65[00:24:32] <zumba_addict> oh no, it should be N
66[00:24:40] <Lady_Aleena> petn-randall, only during the upgrade process. That message came up several times. In the terminal, "locale" seems to have everything set.
67[00:24:41] <mutante> zumba_addict: just Enter is default
68[00:25:03] <Lady_Aleena> Oh, except LC_ALL is not set.
69[00:25:31] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: ignore the LC_ALL
70[00:25:39] <petn-randall> Lady_Aleena: That's sensible, as LC_ALL overrides every other setting.
81[00:29:24] <Lady_Aleena> LtL, I did see that during the upgrade a lot. I'm all upgraded, and no BIG issues. I am in my DE, listening to music, and on IRC. I even checked Facebook and Twitter in Firefox, so I think I'm okay for now. My issues are minor, like making my DE look the way I want it too again.
82[00:30:09] <klys> that's interesting. I usually use LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 except you have en_US.UTF-8
83[00:30:16] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: congratulations, its downhill from there
84[00:30:34] <Lady_Aleena> I didn't want until a little over a month to upgrade this time. (I waited until about a month and a half ago to upgrade from jessie to stretch.)
87[00:31:27] <dvs> Lady_Aleena, well, the next major upgrade should be in over 2 years now.
88[00:31:41] <Lady_Aleena> dvs, so no stress until then.
89[00:31:47] <LtL> buster's kernel made my touchpad work like a rock star
90[00:32:35] <Lady_Aleena> My ONLY major issue is that my favorite terminal emulator stopped working. Now I have to use others that don't have horizontal scrolling.
91[00:32:59] <emyd> interesting. after every reboot i need to reload the amdgpu kernel module to make lightdm/start/X work
158[01:00:35] <BCMM> i think sometimes graphics drivers are installed to the initramfs in order to provide native resolution via kms as early as possible in the boot process
174[01:03:11] <humpled> vim has horizontal scrolling
175[01:03:22] <Tom-_> Lady_Aleena, is there no new version?
176[01:03:41] <emyd> BCMM: good idea, when i run 'update-initramfs -u' it warns about missing possible firmware files but they are definitively present because firmware-amd-graphics is installed
177[01:04:13] <emyd> *possible missing
178[01:04:23] <Lady_Aleena> LtL, apt show terminator shows the wrong one.
190[01:07:56] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
193[01:08:37] <BCMM> ok it turns out i *really* don't know how a debian initrams works, because mine appears to be much larger than the files extracted from it...
194[01:09:43] <petn-randall> BCMM: If you have microcode installed, it gets prepended to the initramfs in a really weird way.
195[01:09:57] <BCMM> petn-randall: yeah, microcode is all i'm seeing
206[01:12:03] <tfgbd_> Why did my debian come with Matlab?
207[01:12:06] <Minall> Hello!
208[01:12:25] <Minall> I'm having a strange bug, I really need help since I don;t know what to do
209[01:12:45] <petn-randall> !ask
210[01:12:46] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
211[01:12:57] <Minall> Thank you, ok!
212[01:13:15] <n-iCe> dumb question, is I go for testing, do I need to uprade or change the iso to get a new version of debian? or will it be updated by itself
213[01:13:18] <petn-randall> BCMM: Indeed, it's a weird setup.
214[01:13:42] <BCMM> i guess that's why unmkinitramfs exists...
215[01:13:45] <Minall> I'm trying to install debian on an old computer, but just by plugin the USB it freezes totally my pc, to the point when I have to restart manually.
216[01:13:58] <BCMM> and wow this initramfs is kind of huge. why is ntfs-3g in here? does debian support NTFS boot???
248[01:19:10] <n-iCe> i'm going to install debian too
249[01:19:10] <n-iCe> brb
250[01:19:14] <Minall> Maybe I can't install debian in this pc exactly...
251[01:19:18] <BCMM> n-iCe: i'm not quite sure i understand the question. do you already have a debian install, that you want to upgrade? or are you asking which ISO to use for a new install now?
254[01:20:37] <n-iCe> BCMM: I'm just asking if the testing version upgrades to the new version of debian with update && upgrade when a new version is released
255[01:21:08] <BCMM> n-iCe: ok, so i'm going to assume you're talking about an already-installed copy of debian...
256[01:21:30] <Tom-_> Lady_Aleena, either that or you can show us the java error
257[01:21:34] <BCMM> n-iCe: you can upgrade to a new debian release from within debian. you don't need to download a new iso and install it again
258[01:21:35] <n-iCe> BCMM: no no
259[01:21:49] <BCMM> n-iCe: but the process is not automatic. you will need to change your sources.
260[01:21:54] <n-iCe> I don't use Debian, I WANT to install debian.
261[01:22:10] <n-iCe> I need to change sources in stable
262[01:22:12] <n-iCe> But what about testing
263[01:22:36] <n-iCe> is my question, I'm a guy who hates upgrade to a new version from an already installed system I always do a clean install
264[01:22:42] <BCMM> n-iCe: oh, hang on... is your question about what happens when you're running testing, and the release you're running becomes the new stable?
265[01:23:00] <n-iCe> question is, is testing like a rolling release that I never need to do a clean install?
266[01:23:07] <n-iCe> BCMM: yeeees
267[01:23:19] <Minall> nice question btw
268[01:23:22] <BCMM> n-iCe: in that case, it depends on whether you used the distro codename in your sources, or the word "testing"
269[01:23:36] <n-iCe> but testing will be always testing, isn't?
270[01:23:53] <n-iCe> so means I will have the lastest files and distro codename, and base, files etc?
271[01:24:01] <n-iCe> no need to do a clean install anymore?
272[01:24:03] <BCMM> n-iCe: i think a couple of examples will help. last week, buster was the testing distro, but now, it's the stable distro
273[01:24:13] *** Quits: Minall (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
274[01:24:56] <BCMM> n-iCe: a user who had "buster" in their sources.list will still be on buster. so they will have switched from testing to stable, but not switched debian release
276[01:25:44] <n-iCe> but If I download testing, will it say testing or buster
277[01:25:45] <BCMM> n-iCe: a user who had "testing" in their sources.list will have automatically upgraded to bullseye. they have switched to the next debian release, and stayed on testing
285[01:26:21] <n-iCe> you will be always be in the last codename and in the last files
286[01:26:34] *** Quits: The_Blue_Eyed_Gi (cc2c7048@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
287[01:26:37] <BCMM> n-iCe: i think the default sources.list uses the codename. but i'm not sure about that. i usually use debootstrap and write my own sources.list.
288[01:26:38] <tfgbd_> Why did my debian come with Matlab?
294[01:27:20] <n-iCe> think I'm just gonna install stable
295[01:27:29] <BCMM> tfgbd_: is it debian for arm, or raspbian?
296[01:27:32] <n-iCe> anyway, takes years to release a new update, right?
297[01:27:38] <tfgbd_> begins with an r
298[01:27:39] <BCMM> n-iCe: usually about two years, yes
299[01:27:45] <n-iCe> is not like ubuntu that releases every 2 months
300[01:27:47] <BCMM> !raspbian
301[01:27:48] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
302[01:27:49] <n-iCe> 6 months*
303[01:28:31] <BCMM> tfgbd_: see above. personally i'd try #raspberrypi, #raspbian has been pretty quiet since the Foundation officially adopted raspbian
304[01:28:48] <BCMM> tfgbd_: the debian project does not decide what goes in to raspbian images
305[01:29:03] <tfgbd_> You mean I can't apt-get it back?
306[01:29:52] <BCMM> tfgbd_: i don't know. i only use lightweight raspbian installs with no desktop. if you want to find more people who know about raspbian, try an appropriate channel
308[01:30:21] <BCMM> n-iCe: debian releases approximately every two years, and it just released a couple of days ago. so stable is about as cutting-edge as it's ever going to be right now :)
309[01:30:47] <n-iCe> BCMM: :D
310[01:30:50] <n-iCe> what de do you use
311[01:30:51] <n-iCe> DE
312[01:31:04] <tfgbd_> Perfect. But 14 years would be even better.
313[01:31:17] <BCMM> n-iCe: who, me?
314[01:31:29] <BCMM> n-iCe: kde plasma, on desktop
321[01:33:10] <disi> i'm having an issue upgrading... i was tracking buster before, now i updated sources.list to stable and I'm trying to run `apt upgrade` but i'm getting " unable to make backup symlink for './usr/lib/apt/methods/https': No such file or directory" I was able to install apt-transport-https successfully, but to no avail. any tips?
333[01:35:07] <tfgbd_> Did Douglas Boling ever come here?
334[01:35:20] <mutante> what's his nick?
335[01:35:22] <BCMM> disi: that might actually be a good point... some string to integer functions are liable to decide things are binary for no good reason
350[01:41:12] <disi> huh... that doesn't seem right
351[01:41:31] <Tom-_> i don't know much about java, is this jessies.terminator (unrelated to Debian jessie, for those playing along at home) free and open source?
377[01:46:12] <Lady_Aleena> Tom-_, I am okay using a terminal to install packages. I just needed to know what to do. This may be the only thing that I have ever installed with a .deb file. I use apt-get 99.99% of the time.
378[01:46:31] *** Quits: n-iCe (~nice@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
379[01:47:11] <Tom-_> that's allowed :)
380[01:48:21] <disi> mutante: ugh... there are a bunch of others that get hit behind that if i fix that manually
381[01:48:30] <Lady_Aleena> Trying it now.
382[01:48:47] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: i think apt install ./debfile will solve dependencies
406[01:57:42] <LtL> well, columns show up fine as do file lists
407[01:58:00] <Lady_Aleena> So for example, if I run dpkg -l, EACH row is one program without the end wrapping to the next line making the columns look bad.
408[01:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1519
409[01:59:03] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: with a term maxed dpkg -l doesn't need to wrap
417[02:00:11] <disi> mutante: 3301 seems irrelevant because i am not interacting with any windows programs for this (apt is tripping up on something in /usr/lib)... still looking at the other
418[02:00:14] <Lady_Aleena> mutante, I still get line wrapping in another terminal.
419[02:00:14] <disi> (ty, btw)
420[02:00:32] <disi> what should /usr/lib/apt/planners/dump point to tho?
421[02:01:06] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
443[02:13:01] <disi> aaaaand I'm back from a BSOD. windoze is grayt
444[02:13:06] <tehnull> ewlol
445[02:13:23] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: so you are saying it worked in jessie and changed in buster?
446[02:13:52] <Lady_Aleena> mutante, redmond changed between stretch and buster.
447[02:13:58] <Chex> I wonder if buster supports my Ryzen 2400G CPU now
448[02:14:11] <Chex> should try to install on a thumb-drive for s&g's
449[02:14:12] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: i think i can confirm that.. i tried in buster and indeed no horizontal bar.. but for Jessie it is advertised as a feature
450[02:14:27] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: eh. i use terminator all day but what's the relation to Redmond?
498[02:24:05] <mutante> and i did not even select anything because i just picked MATE desktop
499[02:24:17] <mutante> and i got Xorg apparently
500[02:24:31] <disi> debian is amazing... move broken stuff out of the way and let it fix itself... upgrade seems to be going fine now. can't fix the broken, double-pain windoze tho, unfortunately XD
540[02:28:21] <disi> it makes sense now that i understand it, but ya, i agree: you shouldn't really _need_ to understand it
541[02:28:22] <petn-randall> tehnull: The reason it doesn't exist is that people are even less inclined to read the release notes, and then cry when things go wrong.
542[02:28:32] <cshzg> abrotman: i see...
543[02:28:41] <tehnull> things shouldn't go wrong
544[02:28:42] <Lady_Aleena> tehnull, I too wish for a gui upgrade program. My eyes are still tired of watching lines scrolling in my terminal.
545[02:28:48] <l337f00l> can't wait for buster on devuan its gonna be soo sweet
550[02:29:04] <abrotman> Didn't see that coming ...
551[02:29:16] <Lady_Aleena> abrotman, 8)
552[02:29:22] <mutante> so something like "sed -i stretch/buster/g /etc/apt/sources.list ; apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade" to turn it into a single command and then alias that
639[02:49:07] <l0rdN1k0n> free my nukka ba55 he didn't do nothing .... HACK THE PLANET!!!!!! HACK THE PLANET!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO MESS WITH THE BEST DIE LIKE THE REST!!!!!
860[04:06:59] <Resilience> a little bit ooftopic, and I know this is _not_ the right channel for testing, but the right channel seems to be dead or sleeping, what's going with testing version? why can't be updated && dist-upgraded?
862[04:07:22] <mason> Resilience: The right channel is #debian-next on OFTC, not on Freenode.
863[04:07:48] <sleepingforest> congrats on Buster, thank u all for your work
864[04:07:58] <Resilience> mason, I said it in the first part " I know this is _not_ the right channel for testing, but the right channel seems to be dead or sleeping,"
867[04:09:11] <mason> Resilience: Ah, common error for people to not realize it wasn't on the same network.
868[04:09:26] <dvs> !wwbr
869[04:09:27] <dpkg> Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See replaced-url
870[04:09:35] <dvs> hmmmmm....
871[04:09:41] <nonicknamegivenh> Fresh install of Debian 10, after installing firewalld, I used "firewall-cmd --zone=public --add-service=http --permanent" and called --reload. Firewalld is not completely broken and spits out error regarding iptables. Any suggestions?
872[04:09:45] <Resilience> mason, I am onth eother network, but everyone seems to be sleeping or disappeared
896[04:25:59] <Resilience> binaryhermit, don't know, it is the first time I get t this, a respository change (security) changed without being listed, a complete freeze ontesting and some extrange messages with apt_get, the craziness of modern times I am afraid
898[04:27:45] <laughingtiger> hi, is avahi-daemon useful in debian? I recently disabled it, but found no malfunction of the system. everything seems normal.
899[04:27:53] *** Quits: Shmam (4b64572e@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
900[04:28:27] <zoredache> it can be useful if your network is shared with Mac (OSX) devices and you want automagical name resolution to work
901[04:28:40] <zoredache> for file sharing and other resources
902[04:28:49] <zoredache> probably not as useful for a single computer
903[04:28:55] <jmcnaught> Shmam: have you checked /var/log/syslog for errors?
908[04:33:39] <Resilience> laughingtiger, I have the same issue with you, avah is a uppn server, that allows o annoucnce every service you want by means of upnp, unless you want to do that, you don't need to and debian works the same
914[04:37:45] <laughingtiger> Resilience, thank you for that, I've Bing'ed and google'd a lot, but still can't have a clear conception about it, now I understand.
918[04:38:48] <Resilience> laughingtiger, it took me 3 years to udenrstand that, upnp announces things (like the rendezvous or wahtever is called i now MacOS service) and by configuring avahim, yo ucana nnounce EVERYTHING (which neither wise nor safe, of course)
920[04:40:12] <Resilience> laughingtiger, yes, 3 years, until I found a little link that make a configutarion for a VBUS service and I have my a-ha moment
921[04:40:21] <Resilience> VBUS*DBUS
922[04:41:12] <laughingtiger> Resilience, I guess the total time accumulated couldn't excess 3 months, you just expanded it into 3 years, is that right?
965[04:51:35] <Bjornn> except Sid should be a gangster, not a toy.
966[04:51:36] <Bjornn> :)
967[04:51:39] <Resilience> somebody is something is wrong with bullseye or if sources.list must be changed? there are no updates in testing since deb10 release (I know, offtopic, but debian-next is full of dead7selept people)
970[04:53:09] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
971[04:53:50] <jmcnaught> Resilience: have you tried asking in #debian-next? Just because nobody else is talking doesn't mean nobody will see your question.
972[04:54:35] <Resilience> jmcnaught, yes, I did, I don't meant "nobody is talking" but "nobody asnwered" (sorry for being ambigous) that's why I ask here
973[04:54:54] <Resilience> jmcnaught, and I know is a "little" off-topic, but...
974[04:54:58] <jml2> Resilience, deb10 is like 2 days old..
975[04:55:08] <jml2> Resilience, don't see why you would have testing in your repo settings
976[04:55:11] <addviking> Resilience, annadane has answered you in this thread. packages have to go thru unstable first. expect 10 days before packages in testing
981[04:57:05] <Resilience> addviking, ok, as I said, it tis the first time it happens to me, and it's been a non-reported change in security reports wtich rasie an error
982[04:57:18] <Resilience> no matter, thanks to all ofo you
988[05:00:43] <Resilience> jml2, Starting with the next release (bullseye), the security archives were renamed from xxx/updates to xxx-security, but this doesn't seem to be documented yet. There was a short mailing list post, but I figured it out by browsing the archive
992[05:03:31] <jml2> Resilience, try it without "debian-security" in the path...
993[05:03:34] *** Quits: icarusfactor (~factor@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
994[05:04:10] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
995[05:04:43] <jml2> Resilience, here I get a redirect to replaced-url
996[05:04:56] <Resilience> jml2, I configured the paths as is said in that post, and now it raises no erro rnor warn, but there are no updates, and is the first time it happnes to me, that's why I was asking too, but if you said it is normal, well, it will be the new normal, no problem
998[05:05:16] <jml2> Resilience, maybe they're upgrading the way their redirects work..
999[05:05:57] <jml2> Resilience, if you use your webbrowser , it probably would redirect to a closer cdn near you .. maybe the "cdn" actually means content-delivery-network ..
1000[05:06:12] <Resilience> jml2, wahtever, as I said, it just urged me alittle bit to know if there was something new, or if I was making something wriong, seems neither of them, so I can wait
1001[05:07:20] <jml2> Resilience, where did you read about that particular way of setting the security repo to -> "debian-security" ?
1006[05:08:28] <jml2> Resilience, um, i was expecting a mailinglist topic from a dev team..
1007[05:08:40] <jml2> Resilience, reddit is reddit
1008[05:08:48] <Resilience> jml2, as I said, in an answer someone says he read ti in a mailinglist
1009[05:09:10] <jml2> oh
1010[05:09:14] <jml2> i c
1011[05:09:33] <jml2> Resilience, but they're using "bullseye-security", not "debian-security" .. i did not bother to look at that
1012[05:09:38] <Resilience> jml2, reddit points to the mailing list, the fact is that with the raditional path raises errors and warnings, and with the reddit path it beahves as a cahrm, so...
1013[05:09:53] <jml2> or maybe this -> "bullseye-security instead of bullseye/updates"
1016[05:11:17] <Resilience> jml2, I am using testing, not bullseye, you will say "they are the same", no they aren'tm bullseye is testing now, two days ago wasn't and some months inthe future won't be, so I _alwys_ point my repositories to testing, and someone roke that and it was not documented, you know, the "new normal"
1018[05:11:39] <Resilience> jml2, I don't care about bullseye and names, I care about stable, testing, etc
1019[05:11:51] <jml2> Resilience, never claimed correction to that. I am just trying to access the next release security repo.
1020[05:11:54] <Resilience> someone broke that
1021[05:12:02] <themill> !bullseye-security
1022[05:12:02] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See replaced-url
1023[05:12:30] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
1024[05:12:37] <themill> (you can s/bullseye/testing/ on that, but you may as well delete the line)
1025[05:13:32] <Resilience> themill, I can as well delete it.. today, but a few weeks, month years down the line I wouldn't delete it :)
1026[05:13:33] <jml2> (Resilience is the one that has the issue)
1047[05:21:02] <Resilience> but pleae, jml2 stop talking about this, I don't to talk of testing here, just asnwering you about "oh, but it isnormla", no, it is nor moral and never happened
1048[05:21:26] <Resilience> but as I said, I don't want to talk of etsting hee, because peoplep will be upsetted
1049[05:21:33] <jml2> Resilience, according to what themill who knows more than me.. it appears to be a recurring theme during migration
1050[05:21:56] <jml2> Resilience, (according to the factoid and official debian.org site)
1051[05:22:08] <Resilience> jml2, hat si blatanly not true, in fact, a day after migration uses to be an avalanche of new updates
1052[05:22:14] <jml2> Resilience, I don't know if its new..
1053[05:22:23] <jml2> Resilience, I'm not contesting anything, just stating what is out there
1054[05:22:26] <Resilience> jml2, how long are you using debian?
1060[05:24:17] <jml2> I just upgraded my debian system since good ol little wheezy :) (I've used debian much earlier than this)
1061[05:24:45] <jml2> I just upgraded 2 days ago, and the upgrade went pretty well. I was previously on and off with testing as well, but lingered off testing some time ago..
1062[05:25:12] <jml2> I keep testing in other places, not this workstation atm
1063[05:27:26] <jml2> Resilience, its funny, if you've been on linux for that long, I wouldn't consider reddit a valuable resource to look up issues
1064[05:28:02] <Resilience> jml2, but I am NOT upgrading, I am KEEPING ON running testing, do you understand now the difference? I am NOT asking anything about updatign to the new version, I am asking about something BROKEN in te repos for testing SINCE the new version, and as I said, it is a esting question, that I asked here as a last resort try, I don0t really want to talk about this, but you keep on talking and talking and talking wantig to have a reason that you don't have
1065[05:28:02] <Resilience> man
1066[05:28:41] <jml2> Resilience, I never claimed. You seem to put a lot of goofy words in my mouth.
1069[05:29:15] <Resilience> jml2, are you a woman?
1070[05:29:55] <jml2> don't give me a "reddit" post on me. that's for children.
1071[05:30:00] <Resilience> jml2, are you a woman?
1072[05:30:08] <mason> Isn't sexism generally in violation of whatever Code of Conduct you'd care to select?
1073[05:30:10] <Kon-> Could any KDE Plasma users on Buster please check to see if Keyboard Navigation options are accessible from System Settings? I've got a report that they're not, but I'm on a newer version of Plasma.
1081[05:32:37] <jmcnaught> jml2: if you just called that person a woman because they were being annoying then that is pretty misogynist which has no place in this channel.
1082[05:32:41] <mason> Let's see...
1083[05:33:04] <mason> !next
1084[05:33:04] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
1090[05:36:16] <jml2> jmcnaught, oh yeah, that's true. I should have never said the one word that is ultimately mysogynistic. You are 100% correct... "politically" speaking. You must be a really really wise man and you should be proud of yourself.
1091[05:36:27] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1093[05:37:11] <mason> jml2: Stop while you're only a little behind, mmkay? Not acceptable.
1094[05:38:17] <jml2> mason, that guy Resilience was already having been triggered before I showed up here. He was crying before I can place out the bucket for him... probably has been doing this on other channels as well. Can't help you there buddy mmkay?
1106[05:48:18] <finn0> Still, facing same problem despite of many no. of reboots. Couldn't open Chromium in "workspace-1". I'm using GNOME desktop evironment. Here problem description:
1110[05:50:46] <finn0> When I'm trying to open Chromium browser from workspace-1 workspace automatically switched to 2 and then Chromium opens (i.e. chromuim opens in workspace-2).
1126[05:59:59] <finn0> jmcnaught: Yep, I'm using "auto move windows". But, getting same result after disabling this extension. Do I need to restart system/logout after disable the extension to affect the results?
1129[06:00:58] <finn0> jmcnaught: And also same results for opening chromium from terminal in current workspace.
1130[06:01:41] <jmcnaught> finn0: disabling the extension should be enough, or deleting its rule for Chromium. Do you have anything else that might be moving windows around?
1133[06:06:10] <awal1> I have made a few changes in / and home config files but i don't remember which ones; nothing complicated, almost config files regarding theming, energy and some kernel, systemd and X login boot stuff. How can i find which files have been modified manually by my single user?
1135[06:07:59] <awal1> it is bcoz I want switch to stable, bcoz i have no really time to maintain Sid, and I want a really frech install than modify stuff manually, no a reinstall from a backup
1162[06:26:01] <dstaring> I thought it was a Linux distro.
1163[06:26:16] <dstaring> Sounds like a right nightmare to try to get all that crap working on FreeBSD as well.
1164[06:26:38] *** Quits: ghoti (~paul@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
1165[06:27:16] <awal1> finn0, I haven't used gnome since a few years, but a few yeas ago, after disabling x extension gnome-shell restart is needed (ctrl-r-restart/r)
1171[06:30:34] <jml2> dstaring, yeah the kfreebsd kernel.. i tried it like 2 years ago.. they suspended the project for some time...
1172[06:30:56] <jml2> dstaring, couple days ago debian released (unofficial) gnu/hurd..
1173[06:30:58] *** Quits: inoderrant (~inoderran@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1174[06:31:03] <dstaring> kfreebsd? Is that a typo or a special version of FreeBSD's kernel?
1175[06:31:07] <jml2> dstaring, i tried that as well recently in a virtualbox..
1176[06:31:25] <jml2> dstaring, yeah a freebsd kernel that's suited to work for debian..
1177[06:32:31] <jml2> dstaring, i haven't tried it since that 2 year ago mark
1178[06:32:43] <jml2> dstaring, after they announce suspending supporting it.. it may be back on track dunno
1179[06:32:59] <dstaring> I'm purely interested because it surprised me. I wouldn't ever want to use it, because I wasted 17 years of my life wrestling with that garbage OS FreeBSD.
1180[06:33:32] <dstaring> Interesting that Hurd apparently is finally "ready for action" in some sense.
1181[06:33:50] <zoredache> I think some people wanted it for ZFS or something
1198[06:46:45] <jim> is debian's policy on any configuration changes made by the person who installs debian or otherwise has admin rights, that the installation would keep that change?
1199[06:46:48] <finn0> awal1: which version do u use? Mine is "Chromium 73.0.3683.75 built on Debian 9.8, running on Debian 9.9"
1214[06:50:57] <jml2> finn0, worked fine for me and I have over 20 gigs of app data intalled
1215[06:51:43] <finn0> I'm using some third party application and added some third party repos in my source list. Shoud I remove those before upgrading?
1216[06:51:46] <awal1> finn0, before migration read replaced-url
1217[06:52:23] <jim> finn0, upgrading to the new dist from the previous stable, is one of the things that would stop a release if there were any problems
1219[06:53:44] <awal1> migration from current stable to new stable is only guaranteed almost without breakage for a pure debian system
1220[06:53:47] <jml2> finn0, should disable imho all non-debian non-official repos and place them in a subdirectory , eg, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/_dis , then do apt-get update -- also be sure to remove anything backports and "stretch"
1221[06:54:01] <jim> finn0, turn those 3rd party repos off during the upgrade
1222[06:54:12] <jml2> finn0, so don't keep stretch-backports or stretch, disable/comment those lines out..
1223[06:54:20] <jml2> finn0, and just buster
1224[06:54:32] *** Quits: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1277[07:27:42] <jim> dgriffi, and add lots of informative details
1278[07:28:03] <mataniko> So any python code that calls MySQLdb.thread_safe() is now broken in Buster, should return something but the method doesn't exist. Worked just fine in stretch
1307[07:34:38] <Nz17> Hello. Unhappily upgraded to Debian 10. Now sound playback won't work right. Sound plays via USB but not PCI. Tried purging ALSA and PulseAudio packages and messing with configs for the last several hours. alsa-info.txt has been uploaded to replaced-url
1308[07:34:38] <Lady_Aleena> Damn it! I can't use reportbug.
1312[07:36:23] <rwp> Lady_Aleena, Bugs submitted to Debian are simply email. If you can send an email by any method then a bug may be submitted by email.
1313[07:37:03] <dead_> im probably in the wrong chatroom?
1314[07:37:16] <Lady_Aleena> jim, my minor issue is with apt.
1315[07:37:18] <rwp> Lady_Aleena, For help replaced-url
1317[07:37:31] <Lady_Aleena> rwp, I'm there now. 8)
1318[07:37:37] <jim> Lady_Aleena, -or-, you could download the software involved from upstream, test to see if the bug exists there, and if so, report the bug upstream... if not, you know the bug is with the debian package
1336[07:44:35] <Lady_Aleena> How do I get my kernel version?
1337[07:45:33] <jim> I have a situation... I'm using okular to print a pdf, and I select the lp printer... then okular says file /usr/bin/lpr not found, but when I ls it, it's there
1355[07:48:36] <laughingtiger> finn0, have you tried move your mouse to the top of the screen and right click it on the chromium browser or whatever the name it is, and choose "move to desktop" option?
1364[07:50:50] <dead_> please forgive me. i have a disk drive from a playstation 3 i corrupted by plugging it into a windows pc. what other format tool other than g-parted is new user friendly
1365[07:51:26] <jim> dead_, what do you want to do with the drive?
1366[07:52:09] <rwp> Plugging a playstation disk into ms-windows system should not be enough to corrupt it.
1367[07:52:19] <jim> dead_, (notice... someone is responding to your question)
1368[07:52:34] <dead_> format. and update
1369[07:52:51] <eb0t> stretch is debian 4.9.0-9-amd64
1370[07:53:03] <jim> you want to format the whole drive?
1371[07:53:05] *** Quits: kopper (~mrbabar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1372[07:53:15] <jim> how large is it?
1373[07:53:16] <dead_> its corrupt as far as the ps3 says..
1387[07:55:30] <dead_> im not sure ... i dont ps3 runs anything important from the hardrive
1388[07:55:33] <jim> Lady_Aleena, there is the bug tracking system, at bugs.debian.org
1389[07:55:50] <dead_> know*
1390[07:55:55] <finn0> laughingtiger: I didn't find any "move to desktop" option. I moved cursor to top bar of chromium browser and right click on it getting these options "Minimize/Restore/New tab/Reopen closed tabs" etc. but not "move to desktop".
1391[07:56:29] <dead_> lets just say no... nothing important..
1392[07:56:38] <jim> dead_, ok. you need to make that decision first before you do anything to the drive
1393[07:56:58] <dead_> ok. just a sec..
1394[07:57:06] <laughingtiger> finn0, looks like your system is indeed broken.
1395[07:57:35] <laughingtiger> finn0, or you're not using kde? in that case I'm useless to you now.
1396[07:58:00] <finn0> jim: as you suggest comment out 3rd party repo. Shouldn't I first uninstall those apps?
1397[07:58:21] <jim> dead_, the decision is: do you care what's on the hard drive (could be your saved games), or do you want to blow all of that away, and format the drive new?
1398[07:58:34] <Lady_Aleena> jim, the problem is that bugs filed by email may take days to get filed and show up on the appropriate page.
1399[07:59:14] <jim> finn0, you can take care of that after the upgrade. and, it's possible if the 3rd party packages depend on packages in stretch, it will remove them for you
1400[07:59:14] <dgriffi> I'm trying to get QEMU to emulate a sparc or sparc64 such that networking works. All the guides I find on doing this are either dreadfully out of date or just plain don't work.
1401[07:59:30] <Nz17> Upgraded to Debian 10 from 9. Now sound playback won't work properly. Sound plays back via USB but not PCI. Tried purging ALSA and PulseAudio packages and messing with configs for the last several hours. alsa-info.txt has been uploaded to replaced-url
1405[07:59:55] <finn0> laughingtiger: I'm using GNOME.
1406[08:00:26] <jim> Lady_Aleena, ok, check the bug tracking system. by the way, when you file a bug that way, the system will send an email to the maintainer
1407[08:00:45] <Lady_Aleena> Well, I hope I formatted it correctly.
1408[08:00:46] <laughingtiger> finn0, I see, I've only used gnome once or twice. you should try to take the upgrade. good luck.
1410[08:00:48] <jim> it will also do that with reportbug
1411[08:01:33] <jim> it should also send you emails
1412[08:01:40] <finn0> laughingtiger: Thank you.
1413[08:01:46] <sleepingforest> whats a good firewall solution for a desktop? I know firewalld and the firewall-config exist but im curious about alternatives and what other people use
1414[08:01:58] <dead_> nothing important on the drive.. i just need to format the whole thing no space fat32
1415[08:01:58] <sleepingforest> I know on mac os alot of people use LittleSnitch
1416[08:02:08] <Lady_Aleena> And sent it to the correct email address. The only one I could find was submit@bugs.debian.org
1417[08:02:48] <jim> Lady_Aleena, yeah, that's the right address
1438[08:09:45] *** Quits: dude187 (~chris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1439[08:10:20] <blackflow> finn0: it totally is.
1440[08:10:53] <finn0> I think, upgradation will probably broke 3rd party app because their dependency (library/package) will be replaced by newer one and may be that app is not compatiable with those libs/packages.
1447[08:12:10] <Lady_Aleena> Well, it looks like #qt and #xfce are both very very very quiet right now, so I am not going to get much further tonight setting up my de.
1448[08:12:12] <dead_> i smell sarcasm?
1449[08:12:46] <finn0> blackflow: Then, what would you suggest? First should I uninstall 3rd party app then upgrade to Buster or reverse (i.e. upgrade to buster then uninstall)?
1450[08:13:50] <finn0> I think first one is better and safe.
1451[08:13:58] <blackflow> finn0: probably the best thing is to uninstall, upgrade, then reinstall with proper support for bustre (eg. from a repo that's for buster)
1452[08:14:39] <jim> dead_ sec
1453[08:14:43] <blackflow> mixing and matching repos and packages is a yak-shaving infinite rabbit hole even most advanced users can get caught into...
1454[08:14:51] <dead_> ty
1455[08:15:13] <jim> finn0, yep, that's a bad idea because you could import an incompatible dependency tree
1456[08:15:27] <jim> and that can lead to dependency hell
1461[08:16:38] <finn0> blackflow: Should I also take proper backup of system first? (means Is there any chance that after upgradation system will not boot?)
1463[08:16:58] <jim> Lady_Aleena, that should be fine
1464[08:17:23] <blackflow> finn0: you should always keep proper backups of your data and config, yes, not just for upgrades. and if things go wrong for some reason you can always reinstall.
1465[08:17:39] <jim> dead_, you might want to check the drive for bad blocks
1466[08:18:01] <finn0> blackflow, jim: thanks.
1467[08:18:17] <deego> Lady_Aleena: did you say xfce? I used xfce, and haven't upgraded to buster yet. Is it broken or something in buster?
1470[08:18:25] <jim> Lady_Aleena, and, you should be able to check bugs.debian.org to see if your bug report made it there
1471[08:19:34] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1472[08:20:34] <jim> finn0, so dependency hell and plain not working could be the result of installing a BINARY package that comes from a dist or branch you don't run... HOWEVER, you could build the package from -source- from the same place, and it usually works fine
1479[08:21:38] <Lady_Aleena> deego, one of the themes in appearance appears broken, but other than that, everything seems okay. My problem is setting up the Applications Menu to have many levels of sub-menus.
1488[08:23:53] <jim> Lady_Aleena, wait, did you file the bug against apt? or against xfce or a package within that?
1489[08:24:11] <Jck_true> During the Debian Buster upgrade yesterday I must have clicked the wrong option during the GRUB update dialog....My server now refuses to boot from my SSD. I swapped in a drive with Debian 9 on it and ran grub-install and gave it the path to the drive with Debian 10
1505[08:26:18] <Jck_true> deego: No my bios simply report it as a non bootable drive... (Sadly it's an HP microserver and the BIOS is not very user friendly)
1506[08:26:20] <Lady_Aleena> jim, bright yellow on a white background doesn't work well.
1513[08:28:03] <jim> Lady_Aleena, what title did you give to the apt bug?
1514[08:28:17] <Lady_Aleena> jim, the apt issue is something that can only be fixed by the maintainers, so I filed a bug. I have questions pending in #xfce and another in #qt for my other two issues.
1515[08:28:42] <Jck_true> deego; Thanks :)
1516[08:28:49] <Lady_Aleena> jim, "apt uses yellow for warnings"
1532[08:35:54] <Lady_Aleena> jim, it might take a major overhaul of apt to allow user set their own colors, though it would be a nice feature. However, how many people would really set up a config for say apt-colors?
1533[08:37:53] <Lady_Aleena> I am in a very small minority (though sometimes I feel so alone) that use a white background in terminal emulators and elsewhere. Dark backgrounds with bright text seems to be more prevalent.
1534[08:39:09] <Haohmaru> it's gotta look like teh matrix
1535[08:39:11] <deego> dark bg is better on my eyes, but whenever I switch to dark bg, I always have to increase the font size, and make most fonts bold
1536[08:40:15] <Lady_Aleena> I have a white background in my text editor, IRC client, and terminal emulator. Some might go blind if they looked at my monitor. 8)
1537[08:40:22] <deego> I end up giving every app a fullscreen window, and instead of alt-tabbing, i use 70 workspaces
1591[08:56:09] <Lady_Aleena> jim, my phone adjusts the display by the time of day, why can't desktop environments?
1592[08:56:23] <jim> as long as I have that backlight, I don't have to change much about appearance
1593[08:57:18] <Jck_true> Most monitors have a light sensor?
1594[08:57:30] <Lady_Aleena> And I am now going down a rabbit hole in my head.
1595[08:57:41] <Lady_Aleena> Jck_true, not my ancient one.
1596[08:58:13] <Jck_true> It's actually a little annoying in my case. Since it only measures in one spot, if there's a shadow right on the sensor the whole display dims dramatically
1597[08:58:21] <jim> Lady_Aleena, many desktop environments are themable, maybe you could design themes for different times of the day, and work out how to change the theme in a cron job
1644[09:10:12] <Lady_Aleena> srged, now include that link in a general message with things like which version of Debian and what desktop environment you are using.
1645[09:10:31] <Lady_Aleena> jim, not yet, but soonish.
1652[09:13:41] <Lady_Aleena> srged, just remember, the more you include in your messages about the problem, the more helpful those who are very knowledgeable about Debian can be.
1660[09:17:20] <elwisp> i get super heavy lag after the buster update when applications are sending notifications: org.kde.knotifications: WaitForName: Service was not registered within timeout
1668[09:25:51] <Haohmaru> okay, so i have a few packages in my debian stretch that come from backports.. i *will* have issues with those when upgrading to debian10?
1703[09:43:00] <pragomer> hi, I am actually creating a script that does all of my linux setup for me - everything. part of it is creating my fstab and there are username and password for cifs mounts. Is there a way to kind of "hash" these passwords, so that they work, but are not "visible" ?
1712[09:45:59] *** theraspberry_ is now known as theraspberry
1713[09:46:04] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1714[09:46:08] <BCMM> pragomer: not really. and if there was, it wouldn't be useful, since it would be a "password equivalent". i.e., mount.cifs has to use *something* which is adequate to allow authentication with the server, which is just as bad as a password, if stolen
1722[09:47:31] <pragomer> thought it would be cool if this would be possible the other way. its because I am creating a setup-script for my linux-setup. I WOULD be ok if the passphrase stands in the fstab later, as my systems always
1724[09:47:48] <grady> pretty funny, i trying figuring out why my 9.5 dosnt upgraded to latest stable.. until i remember to really look the sources list. and yes, it uses codename by default, not "stable"
1725[09:47:51] <grady> why is that :/
1726[09:48:11] <pragomer> are encrypted.. but I was looking for a solution that lets me "hash" the value in my setupscript (that echoes fstab's content to fstab)
1727[09:48:15] <jml2> grady, cuz names are cool
1728[09:48:45] <BCMM> grady: basically, the idea with debian stable is that breaking changes happen once every two years (whereas in a rolling-release distro, they could happen at any time)
1729[09:48:56] <jml2> pragomer, dunno why you're trying to reinvent the wheel -- there's defnitely unattended-tools for debian/distro setups
1731[09:49:28] <Eryn_1983_FL> so my new buster version of mpd is not liking my extended m3u playlists..
1732[09:49:29] <BCMM> grady: oldstable->stable is a major upgrade, there are often questions to be answered, and things might break. most people want to trigger that manually
1733[09:49:34] <Eryn_1983_FL> and #mpd is a ghost town.
1751[09:54:20] <BCMM> i do think debian should probably have an official "default" sources.list on the web site somewhere, especially now that users are not encouraged to manually choose a mirror...
1752[09:54:21] <Haohmaru> okay, bluh, so i need to improvise on it
1753[09:54:45] <BCMM> Haohmaru: do you have `deb replaced-url
1754[09:54:59] <Haohmaru> i normally don't even touch apt or sources.list.. i've been using synaptic
1755[09:55:21] <Haohmaru> yes
1756[09:55:26] <BCMM> Haohmaru: are you upgrading from stretch to buster? there's a guide for that...
1781[09:58:43] <jim> well... are you actually running an upgrade now?
1782[09:58:57] <Haohmaru> no
1783[09:59:09] <jim> Haohmaru, ok, I'd like to see it
1784[09:59:20] <acagastya> I did not change the GNOME shell, from Debian 9 to Debian 10. I was wondering if it broke for someone else as well.
1785[09:59:31] <jim> sounds from what you've said it's pretty standard
1786[09:59:38] <Haohmaru> i got 2 debian9 machines here, one of them doesn't have exotic packages (from backports) so i'm trying to upgrade that one first
1787[09:59:47] <Haohmaru> i'm IRCing from the other one
1798[10:02:52] <jim> usually the first step of this kind of upgrade, is you run an upgrade of the earlier dist (in other words, without changing the sources.list)
1840[10:09:38] <deego> Haohmaru: where is the upgrade guide you are reading? is that same as the release notes?
1841[10:10:01] *** Quits: ohwowlol (uid375208@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1842[10:10:24] <Haohmaru> jml2, uhm, i used synaptic earlier today and pressed the "reload" button which afaik is equivalent to apt-get update, isn't it?
1843[10:10:47] <Haohmaru> deego, i'm reading this thing: replaced-url
1844[10:10:58] <Haohmaru> well, ignore the #backup
1845[10:11:08] <jim> Haohmaru, we can see if anything happened since then... by running: apt update
1846[10:11:25] <deego> Haohmaru: thanxs
1847[10:11:41] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1848[10:11:51] <jim> likely, it hasn't yet
1849[10:11:51] <Haohmaru> jim, again, it says "all packages are up to date" *shrug*
1850[10:11:55] *** Quits: theraspberry (~rasp@replaced-ip) (Quit: rasp your drive has died again!)
1851[10:12:13] <jim> Haohmaru, when you did apt update?
1852[10:12:37] *** Quits: oldguy (~oldguy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1853[10:12:45] <Haohmaru> two times seconds ago as you told me to
1900[10:21:39] <Haohmaru> but afaiu, the main server now has some fancyness that will decide which mirror to redirect you to, so you don't have to explicitly choose one, right?
1901[10:22:43] <jim> you don't have to, but you can... for example, the one I use is on a major university site about 15 mins away from me... and it's -fast-
1913[10:26:24] <Haohmaru> okayokay, so now, the next step is to upgrade the packages, and use some script thing to record the process in case something bad happens
1914[10:26:31] <Haohmaru> do i gotta log out of the desktop?
1916[10:26:32] <BCMM> Haohmaru: yeah, if you just use deb.debian.org, it should direct you to a mirror automatically
1917[10:27:07] <BCMM> which is nice, because apart from anything else, it means that if your usual mirror goes down, you'll just transparently get another mirror instead
1918[10:27:09] <jim> Haohmaru, you can run: apt dist-upgrade
1919[10:27:23] <Haohmaru> btw, crap my root partition is not very big
1941[10:33:05] <at0m> jim: codename for debian testing since buster became stable
1942[10:33:09] <at0m> !bullseye
1943[10:33:09] <dpkg> The release following Debian 10 "Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. It is the current "testing" release. Remember that straight after a stable release, all sorts of mess suddenly lands in "testing" and it is best avoided if you don't like debugging things. replaced-url
1960[10:37:18] <Haohmaru> i got crapdows7 on that machine, the debian has not been used too much, hence why i decided to try the upgrade on this machine first
1961[10:37:35] <themill> Haohmaru: have you run "apt-get clean" recently?
1967[10:38:24] <themill> Haohmaru: I don't recall whether synaptic cleans the apt cache on its own; perhaps try running that and then see if you've got more free disk space
1968[10:38:25] <Haohmaru> themill, the upgrade guide didn't say anything about apt-get clean
1969[10:38:48] <jim> (I thought earlier that you were all set to upgrade, but now that we see that there's not as much disk space, we should not go further yet)
1996[10:44:04] <Haohmaru> because one of the programs i got includes a potentially big library (kicad)
1997[10:44:07] <jim> Haohmaru, it replaces each package
1998[10:44:17] <themill> Haohmaru: most packages will get replaced so the disk space change is minimal; some packages you end up with the new and old version both installed until you remove the old one
2025[10:48:07] <Haohmaru> for everything else i use debian, kicad on the other machine, librecad, etc..
2026[10:48:20] <Haohmaru> i haven't upgraded my debian at home yet
2027[10:48:41] <jim> ok, are you at work right now?
2028[10:48:59] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2029[10:49:04] <Haohmaru> but it is in a similar situation as the 2nd debian here (it has some exotic packages, from backports, and even some games which were installed in a fancy way (quake3))
2030[10:49:08] <Haohmaru> yes
2031[10:49:11] <jim> ok
2032[10:49:22] <Haohmaru> so i'm not in a hurry to upgrade those
2033[10:49:37] <Haohmaru> i wanna upgrade the less exotic debian that i don't often use first
2095[11:01:44] <jim> with resizing a filesystem, you only risk the filesystem itself... but then, when you resize the partition it's in, you risk EVERYTHING ON THE DRIVE
2096[11:02:03] <Haohmaru> imma only push the "wall" between the two ext4 partitions (/ and /home) to the left ;P~
2113[11:04:23] <Haohmaru> i know, that machine was originally with a 39GB hard disk, i've already moved the crapdows and the linux onto a new HDD, resized them, they survived
2114[11:04:48] <Haohmaru> i even broke the linux first
2115[11:04:57] <Haohmaru> it was a kubuntu, so i'm glad it broke
2131[11:07:15] <Haohmaru> my 2nd debian was also on a smol HDD, and i had trouble with running out of space, then i moved it to a bigger HDD, now there's space on it
2132[11:08:06] *** Quits: Chunkyz (~Chunkyz@replaced-ip) (Quit: COME AT ME, BRUH! o_O)
2216[12:00:25] <Lady_Aleena> Is there a way to compare files between Debian versions? In GTK, I was using the Redmond theme in Stretch, however, it appears it is not even working in Buster.
2217[12:00:48] <Lady_Aleena> Several GTK themes appear broken.
2218[12:01:01] <petn-randall> Lady_Aleena: Probably a lot of things switched from GTK2 to GTK3, and the theme is only providing for GTK2.
2223[12:01:34] <Lady_Aleena> How do I know what XFCE is using?
2224[12:01:41] <Lady_Aleena> s/know/find out/;
2225[12:01:48] <petn-randall> Though I'd expect them to not ship in that case. Are the themes still available in buster, or are those orphaned packages?
2226[12:02:00] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2242[12:05:40] <Lady_Aleena> Industrial, Raleigh, and Redmond appear broken. There may be more, but those are the ones I remember from my last pass through them all.
2243[12:06:09] <Lady_Aleena> And Xfce-redmondxp is NOT the same as Redmond.
2319[12:34:15] <Lady_Aleena> Yes. It was hard to look at. While I use white backgrounds on everything, Redmond is just dark enough around the edges to relieve my eyeballs from strain.
2320[12:35:15] <Lady_Aleena> Plus for those programs that use GTK, I have actual scrollbars.
2321[12:35:18] <mureena> Breeze-Dark is bliss on Hexchat
2323[12:36:25] <no_gravity> Would it be possible to add my own key handler to bash, so that pressing ctrl+, will expand to the last file in the current dir?
2324[12:36:36] *** Quits: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2343[12:46:30] <Jubei> howdy :) I have a bunch of /dev/loop* interfaces listed when I run the "du" command and I'm curious what they all are. replaced-url
2377[12:59:23] <no_gravity> Yeah.. when I add "a() { echo 123 }" I cannot press a anymore.
2378[12:59:45] <HarmtH> no_gravity: If you just want the mappings in bash and not in other programs that use the readline library, you can just as well use 'bind'
2379[12:59:57] <no_gravity> HarmtH: How would that work?
2380[13:00:23] * Lady_Aleena sighs, happy dancing is over.
2395[13:03:12] <pja> Lady_Aleena: You can get something /close/ to Helvetica by installing fonts-freefont-ttf, or you can get hold of a copy of helvetica that you have a legal right to use & install it yourself.
2410[13:07:04] <no_gravity> Now CTRL+o prints 123 \o/
2411[13:08:20] <themill> Lady_Aleena: what are you trying to achieve?
2412[13:08:39] <no_gravity> Oh, but that is does not work as I want...
2413[13:08:48] <Lady_Aleena> themill, I am trying to get my website to look like it should, and the font should be Helvetica.
2414[13:09:01] <no_gravity> When I type "vim CTRL+o" it just writes 123 below the current line.
2415[13:09:06] <no_gravity> Not as a command argument to vim
2416[13:09:21] <themill> Lady_Aleena: you are free to pay someone for Helvetica or to use one of the several free clones that have the same metrics and are not called Helvetica.
2417[13:09:25] <Lady_Aleena> themill, now I don't know how long I've been without it. I swear I had it in jessie.
2419[13:10:12] <themill> Considering no visitor to your website is likelt to have a font actually called Helvetica either, I'm not sure where you're going with this
2423[13:11:30] <Lady_Aleena> themill, I think I know what is sending the look of my site out of whack. Firefox no longer as an actual scrollbar. It has a little teeny tiny line that wants to be a scrollbar.
2424[13:11:37] <pja> or, if you refer to a standard repo, might evem have them cached.
2425[13:11:40] *** Quits: fdfsdfsdfs (5b049910@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2427[13:11:53] <Lady_Aleena> s/longer as an/long has an/;
2428[13:11:56] <themill> pja: sure, but installing a local copy of the font is still not relevant to that
2429[13:12:06] <pja> themill: That
2430[13:12:09] <pja> ’s true.
2431[13:12:38] <Lady_Aleena> Oh forget it! It is past 7am in the morning and I am too tired to care over much about grammar and spelling.
2432[13:12:50] <pja> Lady_Aleena: If you’re relying on having a local commercial font to get your website to look right, then nobody else will see it the way you do.
2433[13:13:32] <Lady_Aleena> pja, it isn't the font that is sending my site's look out of whack for me. It is the lack of a real vertical scrollbar.
2439[13:14:18] <pja> themill: Sure, but if your layout relies on the Helvetica letter spacing then it’s not going to work on most people’s browsers.
2440[13:14:28] <pja> (this is why you don’t do that of course)
2441[13:14:31] <Lady_Aleena> pja, that was from MY site.
2442[13:15:21] <themill> The metrics for helvetica and arial are close enough to be indistinguishable unless you're working really hard, and they probably are widely enough supported
2443[13:15:37] <Lady_Aleena> I will stop for now. I had a really good early morning with setting up Debian and XFCE. I will put off trying to get a real scrollbar in Firefox after I have slept.
2455[13:18:46] <Lady_Aleena> Have a great day everyone!
2456[13:18:57] <debuser_> Hi. I've just upgraded from Stretch to Buster, and I've noticed that Linux is powercycling the disk when entering S3/standby state, as opposed to just spinning it down. This doesn't happen with the Stretch kernel, and I'm a bit worried since it's showing up in the SMART disk wear stats.
2457[13:19:17] <themill> no_gravity: interesting set of hieroglyphs in the end :)
2458[13:19:39] <no_gravity> I tend to use this now, without nls:
2460[13:19:51] <debuser_> Hi. I've just upgraded from Stretch to Buster, and I've noticed that Linux is powercycling the disk when entering S3/standby state, as opposed to just spinning it down. This doesn't happen with the Stretch kernel, and I'm a bit worried since it's showing up in the SMART disk wear stats. Is this intended? what about reverting to the previous behavior?
2461[13:21:22] <HarmtH> no_gravity: With this one you go to the end of the line as well: bind -x '"\C-e":"READLINE_LINE+=$(ls | tail -1); READLINE_POINT=${#READLINE_LINE}"'
2462[13:21:40] <HarmtH> no_gravity: all on one line
2463[13:23:18] <no_gravity> HarmtH: Yeah, but I'm not sure that is what I want.
2464[13:23:29] <HarmtH> no_gravity: I don't think you have to sort ls output, it it sorted by default
2465[13:24:56] <no_gravity> Ah yes, let me remove that!
2466[13:25:07] <no_gravity> I would prefer to map it to ALT+, instead but not sure how.
2489[13:42:15] <no_gravity> Not that I think about it ... considering I want to implement the toggle through all files functionality .. I might better keep it as a function.
2496[13:45:53] *** Quits: starscreamer (~starscrea@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2497[13:46:32] <pja> debuser_: What else would you expect it to do? S3 is supposed to be power only to RAM to maintain state - everything else is supposed to be turned off.
2508[13:50:56] <debuser_> pja, well perhaps, but this is new behavior, I'm quite sure it doesn't happen w/ the stretch kernel. I'm wondering if there's a way of going back to the old behavior where the disk is only spun down.
2516[13:52:01] <pja> debuser_: Guessing here, but I would suspect that previously the kernel wasn’t managing to get into S3 but only to S1 before, whereas the new kernel maybe has fixed an ACPI corner case or something & is getting to full sleep.
2520[13:52:43] <pja> Presumably the drive was spinning down before? It’s spin-up/down cycles that matter, not power cycles so much anyway, so the only difference you’re seeing is in the smart stats IMO.
2749[14:19:46] <Jubei> EdePopede thank you for the reply. If that's the case then why does the guide have a "cp -aux /dev /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION" following that command?
2750[14:20:01] <EdePopede> i don't think i ever piped it like this, but look at the SYNOPSIS in its manpage, it has some entries with > tar -c [-f ARCHIVE]
2751[14:20:16] <Jubei> I get tar: option requires an argument -- 'f'
2752[14:20:29] <EdePopede> looks like it's missing the source from which it has to unpack
2759[14:21:20] <EdePopede> - would be stdin i guess, and --show-defaults or the end of --help seem to have the defaults used when -f is ommited completel
2789[14:27:19] <smsimeon> Just decided to try out Buster, but it hangs for me on boot
2790[14:27:23] *** Quits: espera_satelita (~espera_sa@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2791[14:27:27] <Jubei> the problem with this tar command is that it's probably creating some tar archive before copying. But the reason I'm copying the root filesystem to another disk is because I don't have space ^_^
2792[14:27:35] <smsimeon> this is the live image I'm trying
2807[14:31:00] <EdePopede> Jubei: but just for safety i'd start with a test directory tree including extended attributes and the like to see if the options used fit.
2808[14:31:16] *** Quits: bla (~bla@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2812[14:31:26] <Oksanaa> Power Management configuration module could not be loaded. And no, I do not see it under "Startup and Shutdown". How do I return to this computer ability to go into Suspend/Hibernate?
2813[14:31:44] <colo-work> isn't there a recommended alternative for easy rebuilds (of existing packages on another release) available?
2833[14:38:46] <dpkg> pbuilder is, like, "personal package builder", a package which creates a chroot for building packages which are optionally targetted at releases other than the currently installed release. It is useful for checking that a package has the correct build-dependencies as well. apt-get install pbuilder && pager /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/README.Debian. Many pbuilder users end up wishing they had used <sbuild> all along
2839[14:39:49] <dpkg> The 'sbuild' package provides a way to build Debian packages within <chroot> environments that are managed using the <schroot> utility. Building within sbuild saves installing the build-dependencies on your machine and also compiles in a clean environment; sbuild is used on the Debian <buildd> network. See replaced-url
2887[15:10:16] <han-solo> wondering where can i get that :)
2888[15:11:59] <touki> Hi there. I have an issue with sleeping / hibernating mode in Debian. The observation is that: the computer does never sleeps a second time (I can put it to sleep once, but than, when I reopen it, it does not go to sleep). The issue that seems to cause that is that the SWAP is full -- as a matter of fact, the SWAP is about the size of the RAM. Any idea how to address that?
3075[16:36:14] <roylaprattep> greycat: you have any idea about my question?
3076[16:36:45] <mason> JyZyXEL: I might have a look. It's easy enough to set it up after the fact with metadata=1.0 but it'd be nice if the installer did it.
3077[16:37:20] <mason> JyZyXEL: For setting it up after the fact, I start with the first half as a straight ESP and the second disk's equivalent being a degraded raid out of the box.
3078[16:37:23] *** Quits: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3079[16:37:27] <mason> Then once it's booted you can convert.
3080[16:37:32] <JyZyXEL> mason: yeah metadata 1.0 for sure, but will it work with grub-install / update-grub
3088[16:43:02] <JyZyXEL> mason: someone suggested to use --removable with grub-install to prevent efibootmgr from trying to use the raid array as the location for esp
3153[17:05:19] <markuman> I try to set /etc/timezone to Europe/Berlin. after running `sudo dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive tzdata`, it is set back to Etc/UTC. any ideas? (debian buster)
3154[17:05:52] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3156[17:06:36] <greycat> /etc/timezone is just a one-line text file. Can you just edit it instead of running dpkg-reconfigure? Or even echo '...' > file?
3157[17:06:45] *** Joins: ugur (~ugur@replaced-ip)
3158[17:06:47] <mason> markuman: You're asking for something that wants input and then not letting it interact... Let it be interactive?
3185[17:12:09] <mason> greycat: You have to accept the future, where it's all stored in XML and JSON and we use compiled tools to set values.
3186[17:12:23] <jhutchins_wk> Oh come on, linux always has at leat three ways to do any given task.
3187[17:12:29] <tarzeau> mason: no thans!
3188[17:12:30] <jhutchins_wk> least
3189[17:12:42] <tarzeau> jhutchins_wk: the unix way, windows ini file, and?
3190[17:12:43] <mason> jhutchins_wk: We should centralize it all in... in some kind of... registry...
3191[17:12:49] <jhutchins_wk> mason: Registry!
3192[17:13:01] <tarzeau> that's what gconf/dconf (GNOME people did)
3193[17:13:09] <greycat> "two ways to do x" is totally different from "two conflicting, parallel means of implementing x, each of which is used by half the programs on the system"
3194[17:13:12] <mason> Then we could centralize on *one* tool, and call that tool regedit!
3195[17:13:12] <tarzeau> and it broke even worse than microsoft registry
3198[17:13:33] <tarzeau> mason: regedit wasn't as bad as gconf/dconf
3199[17:13:51] * tarzeau likes defaults best, with GNUstep
3200[17:14:05] <mason> greycat: To be honest, I'm not sure why /etc/timezone exists or when it came about. I suspect most things ignore it, but who knows?
3201[17:14:12] <tarzeau> existed since 1989 (NeXTSTEP), no idea why all suffered by NIH
3219[17:18:18] <greycat> I see a localtime(5) man page but no timezone(5). Is /etc/timezone documented anywhere?
3220[17:18:25] <themill> lots of things use /etc/timezone, including cron, glib, firefox, ...
3221[17:18:35] <n1md4> hi. installed unattended upgrades on debian. what what i can tell it applies upgrades twice daily at 600 and 1800, with a 12h randomiser. what I don't understand is how it also appeared to run when booted just now (i.e. not at the scheduled time)
3253[17:32:08] <luna_> Firefox 68 is now out and starts rolling out to everyone in 29 minutes
3254[17:32:25] <greycat> wut
3255[17:32:58] <diogenes_> Hey guys, is there any "official" debian desktop environment that is more polished or supported than others? like for instance Fedora has gnome as official and all others are respins, ubuntu had unity (now it's gnome too) and all others are flavors and so on.
3271[17:35:22] <diogenes_> ayekat, the reason i asked is because gnome is a new verio as well as kde is a new version too and other DEs (e.g. xdce) is still the older version.
3275[17:35:53] <annadane> xfce is notoriously slow, and debian just missed the window for xfce 4.14
3276[17:36:12] <annadane> slow in development, i mean
3277[17:36:16] <diogenes_> i see
3278[17:36:24] <greycat> "Debian again ships with several desktop applications and environments. Among others it now includes the desktop environments GNOME 3.30, KDE Plasma 5.14, LXDE 10, LXQt 0.14, MATE 1.20, and Xfce 4.12."
3279[17:36:28] <annadane> debian can only do so much concerning upstream
3280[17:36:30] <greycat> From the buster release notes.
3281[17:36:39] <annadane> well stretch had xfce 4.12.3 and buster has 4.12.4 *shrug*
3331[17:45:32] <ayekat> petn-randall: cron is launched as a systemd service, which should have PATH set to some sane value (not sure what part sets that, though)
3332[17:45:52] <greycat> yeah, I was just looking for that, and it's not immediately obvious
3333[17:45:54] <ctcx> If wanting to backup USB stick or hard drive with dd, I can do it either for entire disk or partition, right?
3335[17:46:44] <greycat> The /usr/sbin/cron process on my buster is running with PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin according to ps.
3340[17:48:07] <greycat> So, systemd sets cron's default $PATH as documented, cron keeps it, and (if the man pages are not lying), crontab jobs inherit it from cron.
3359[17:59:21] <jmcnaught> ctcx: I'm not sure I understand your question, but you do not want the filesystem mounted if you are copying the underlying block device whether it is a partition or the entire drive.
3360[18:00:06] <greycat> (mounted read-only may be OK)
3363[18:02:47] <ctcx> greycat, jmcnaught: when trying to backup my USB with dd to an iso image, I first unmounted USB, and did "dd if=/dev/sdb of=/my/folder/image.iso", and dd threw error
3364[18:02:57] <ctcx> "No data found", or something like that
3365[18:03:11] <ctcx> Had to mount USB to get it to work for both partition and entire USB...
3372[18:04:44] <techie28> Hi.. I tried to upgrade to Buster from Stretch which seem to have completed successfully as I can see version 10.0 on doing "cat /etc/debian_version"
3373[18:05:31] <techie28> afterwards I again tried to run apt update && apt upgrade but it shows something like "gnupg-l10n was installed automatically & no longer required"
3385[18:08:16] <techie28> instead of "apt-get autoremove" I used "apt autoremove" which showed the progress bar completing too but on further doing apt update it shows the same long list of packages & apt upgrade doesnt seem to do anything.. I expected it to inform that system is up to date.
3395[18:10:44] <jmcnaught> techie28: did you follow the upgrade instructions in the buster release notes? 'apt full-upgrade' is a required step.
3396[18:12:04] <techie28> jmcnaught, I used the sed command to update the sources.list & then did apt update && apt upgrade
3397[18:12:20] <dvs> techie28, you're missing that step
3398[18:13:05] <jmcnaught> techie28: you may also want to check the release notes for things to be aware of and other steps you might have missed: replaced-url
3399[18:13:44] <techie28> apt update && apt upgrade seems to reinstalling the "gnupg-l10n" while still showing me the long list of packages.
3400[18:14:10] <techie28> jmcnaught, dvs : so I will run the full-upgrade now I hope it wont break the system?
3401[18:14:38] <dvs> techie28, this is a step on upgrading to buster
3461[18:31:09] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3462[18:32:58] <J_C> Hi. I'm on Debian 10 currently. I currently have Secure Boot disabled. To enable it, do I simply install the 'shim' package (and the signed fwupd and fwupdate packages as I use those too) and then go to by BIOS and enable secure boot? Or is the process a bit more complex?
3477[18:41:28] <ctcx> jmcnaught: 1) plug USB, gets automounted, right click -> unmount in file explorer, gets unmounted and /dev only shows sdb. Plug USB, gets automounted, unmount it with umount command as root (as normal user I get "operation not permitted"), gets unmounted, but sdb1 is still visible in /dev
3478[18:41:36] <ctcx> WTH? This is confusion
3479[18:41:57] <ctcx> But, if unmounting with the first method, when doing dd I get "no medium found"
3480[18:42:04] <ctcx> With second method dd works.
3481[18:42:09] <ctcx> WTH? This is confusion
3482[18:42:10] <greycat> You're saying the file system is on a partition, but the partition device intermittently vanishes from /dev?
3483[18:42:16] <jhutchins_wk> J_C since the intent of secure boot is to prevent you from installing Linux, you might just leave it off.
3484[18:42:26] <ctcx> NO
3485[18:42:39] <ctcx> I tried 2 methods of unmounting my USB
3499[18:47:08] <ctcx> Well, as I said, I tried those 2 ways of unmounting. By using "umount /mount/point" it unmounted and the node at /dev still there.
3500[18:47:45] <ctcx> But, if unmounting via the GUI file manager, with right click device -> expel, node goes away from /dev
3507[18:49:19] <makayabou> I'm using a pxe server with Debian 10. It contains debian repos as local mirror (done with apt-mirror). When I try to install on a client, I get an error about packages seahorse, modemmanager and spice-client-glib-usb-acl-helper having inconsistent sizes. However server and mirror are up to date. Is there something special about those packages that my preseed didn't specificly asked for..?
3512[18:50:24] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3513[18:50:37] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: yeah, I wonder if he's translating the actual words into English on the fly, and has mistranslated something as "expel" when the intent is "eject". Because it definitely sounds like an eject to me also.
3514[18:51:17] <ctcx> greycat: I'm sorry sir, I'm in the middle of a predicament right now and I'm unable to think clearly. I know this is no pretext.
3515[18:51:28] <ctcx> greycat: I meant file manager does "eject"
3544[18:57:32] <ikus060> I just installed debian buster from a fresh install. Was running stretch before. I have a strange behaviours with the sound. When I plug a headphone, the laptop's speaker are making noise. My audio device is Audio device: Intel Corporation Cannon Lake PCH cAVS. Not sure where to start to fix this
3545[18:58:01] <greycat> lsjet: if you're old enough to actually remember why the mount operation is called "mount", you have my respect. I only know it from reading.
3547[18:59:19] <ctcx> greycat, lsjet: I started with Linux at a relatively late age; I do remember CDs of course, but floppies, barely: I was just able to use brain memory when they already began to be shadowed by CDs...
3574[19:08:30] <greycat> I never used 8" floppies. I did use a tape-on-a-reel once, but it wasn't with the stand-up cabinet sized tape drives you see in the movies. It was a weird desktop enclosure thing, and the tape reel went in lying flat.
3580[19:10:27] <ctcx> lsjet: so, what's the difference between "umount" and "eject", aside the later unmounting all partitions and seemingly deleting all nodes in /dev?
3581[19:10:57] <greycat> Your DE's eject apparently tries to mimic removal of the device to such an extent that the kernel no longer sees the partition table.
3582[19:11:02] <stryker> Hello, guys! How r u? I'd like to know one thing: using Synaptic, you can see the option "Section" which shows you all the packages that belong to "Debug", "Email", "Languages" etc. How can I list sections using "APT" or "APT-GET"? Thank you for your attention.
3584[19:11:22] <greycat> Your guess is better than mine how/why it does that. It's your DE. (You never even said which one it is. You just said "GUI".)
3646[19:35:35] <naptastic> ok, I've got a weird situation. Apt is running in a TTY, and for some unknown reason, I can't switch to that terminal anymore.
3647[19:35:52] <naptastic> From `ps auxfreplaced-url
3649[19:36:17] <greycat> By TTY, you mean a Linux console? Ctrl-Alt-Fsomething? If so, which one, and how did you verify this, and how are you trying to switch to it, and what happens when you try?
3650[19:36:18] <naptastic> Is there a way to tell it "please go ahead"? Is there a signal I can send, or something I can echo into STDIN or something?
3652[19:36:59] <naptastic> greycat, I'm using alt+Fx and it confirms that I'm on TTY2 (because I've got stuff going there), 3, 5, and 6.
3653[19:37:14] <greycat> What does your ps command show?
3654[19:37:22] <naptastic> If I request 1, 4, 7, or 8, nothing happens.
3655[19:37:37] <naptastic> I'm trimming this for brevity
3656[19:37:54] <asafniv> greycat thanks
3657[19:37:59] <naptastic> whiptail --backtitle Package configuration --title Configuring libssl1.1:amd64 --output-fd 11 --defaultno --yesno -- There are services installed on your system which need to be restarted when certain libraries, such as libpam, libc, and libssl, are upgraded. Since these restarts may cause interruptions of service for the system, you will normally be prompted on each upgrade for the list of services you wish to restart.
3658[19:37:59] <naptastic> You can choose this option to avoid being prompted; instead, all necessary restarts will be done for you automatically so [...]
3659[19:38:19] <asafniv> looks like i'll have to find another distro, i want to run something updated on my wii
3660[19:38:19] <greycat> Not the command part. The terminal part. It should tell you which terminal (tty or pts) the process is on.
3661[19:38:23] <naptastic> greycat, that's the process as it's listed, minus the stuff on the left.
3662[19:38:40] <naptastic> greycat, OH! How do I tell that?
3663[19:38:42] <greycat> Since you used "u" format, the tty should be the... 7th field.
3677[19:40:24] <greycat> You don't have access to the virtual consoles over an ssh session.
3678[19:40:27] <naptastic> damnable enter key being right next to apostrophe
3679[19:40:49] <naptastic> greycat, yeah, I foolishly started `apt upgrade` in a local TTY without using screen.
3680[19:41:14] *** Quits: jasonwc (~jason@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3681[19:41:26] <naptastic> It's one of those lessons... I've been doing this for 14 years and I still forget that long-running commands should be in screen/tmux. It is one of my most consistent failures as a sysadmin. :'(
3682[19:41:33] <greycat> So there *was* a monitor/keyboard attached, and you logged in on that, and started apt-get, and then disconnected them?
3685[19:42:07] <naptastic> greycat, they're still connected in the next room. I can still switch TTYs locally; just 1, 4, 5, and... crap, now I don't remember.
3686[19:42:28] <naptastic> but when I ctrl+alt+Fx for x=[1,4,5,?] nothing happens.
3687[19:42:51] <naptastic> Switching TTYs is functional for x=[2, 3, 6]
3688[19:42:55] <naptastic> I hope this is making sense
3689[19:43:36] <naptastic> (so, IRC and an SSH session are running at the terminal where I am now; the server with the problem is in the next room, and has a console hooked up as well.)
3697[19:45:38] <naptastic> greycat, since I can't get to the TTY where the process is running, am I likely to cause irreparable damage if I start sending SIGTERM to things until the Apt lock gets freed?
3711[19:49:15] <naptastic> greycat, `ps -ft tty1 | awk '/tty1/{print$2}' | xargs kill -15` did the trick! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
3712[19:49:23] *** fLoo is now known as fLoo_
3713[19:49:29] <greycat> I would've gone slower, but that's just me.
3716[19:50:20] <humpled> ..takes ahold of teh wand...closes eyes tightly...
3717[19:50:30] <raidensnake> lightdm just black screens whenever I try to start it.
3718[19:50:36] <naptastic> Rovanion, I'm pretty sure Selenium or phantom.js (which uses Selenium under the hood) will do what you need. Be warned though, they're heavy.
3719[19:51:24] <Rovanion> naptastic: The thing is though: These can't drive the native GUI widgets that appear when I press C-p, can they?
3733[19:59:43] <raidensnake> I keep getting these errors with lightdm
3734[19:59:46] <raidensnake> Error getting user list from org.freedesktop.Accounts: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Accounts was not provided by any .service files
3735[19:59:55] <raidensnake> Could not enumerate user data directory /var/lib/lightdm/data: Error opening directory '/var/lib/lightdm/data': No such file or directory
3748[20:05:10] <jasonwc> Since upgrading to Buster, my syslog has been flooded with these messages: "ebian-desktop tracker-miner-f[26163]: (../../src/libtracker-miner/tracker-monitor.c:765):monitor_event_cb: code should not be reached"
3752[20:06:05] <jasonwc> Any idea what's causing this? htop doesn't show unusually CPU activity associated with it. Not sure if it matters but I'm using ZFS as my root filesystem
3785[20:14:05] <gvth> If I have done no mistake that's the amount of different images my computer monitor can display when the resolution is 1280x800, right?
3789[20:15:47] <naptastic> gvth, most video cards prefer 32-bit color modes to 24-bit, since it's easier to move 4 bytes around and keep them aligned than 3 bytes. The last byte will be used for transparency or ignored.
3790[20:16:30] <naptastic> So the size of one buffer = (1200 * 800 * 4) bytes
3792[20:16:48] <naptastic> divide your available video RAM by that number.
3793[20:17:47] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3794[20:18:25] <Resilience> gvth, if I don't remeber wrong 16777216^1024000= res -> ln(6777216^1024000)=ln(res) -> 1024000*ln(6777216) = ln(res) -> e^[ 024000*ln(6777216) ] = e^[ ln(res) ] -> res = e^[ 024000*ln(6777216) ], maybe this has shorter computing time than the rpreviosus one
3821[20:24:06] <ikus060> After some trial and error, figure my issue with sound it causes by laptop-mode-tools that was installed. As of today, doesn't is worth it ? I mean doesn installing laptop-mode-tools make a different in term of power usage with recent kernel ?
3823[20:24:39] <jadax> that might be shooting in the dark, but after upgrading from debian 9 to debian 10 - my chrome web browser takes up much more CPU doing same tasks it did before
3824[20:24:43] <gvth> Generally, the amount of images an arbitrary monitor can display is (amount of colors a pixel can display) ^ (resolution). Isn't it?
3859[20:38:21] <jadax> what's the difference between using buster main contrib vs buster main contrib non-free ?
3860[20:38:29] <greycat> !non-free
3861[20:38:29] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
3862[20:38:43] *** Quits: ikus060 (~ikus060@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3863[20:38:55] <greycat> "contrib" is the weird one -- technically free, but it depends on non-free stuff in a fundamental way
3909[20:46:36] <lsjet> for many people, non-free software is a security risk. Closed = untrustworthy
3910[20:47:27] <greycat> lsjet: That's not completely true. Most of the stuff in non-free is open source, just under a license that doesn't allow free modification and distribution.
3918[20:48:29] <jadax> I was refering to non-free being security risk
3919[20:48:30] <greycat> Heartbleed was the name of a security bug/exploit, not a piece of software.
3920[20:48:47] <Chunkyz> can anyone help me get ipsec running?
3921[20:48:58] *** Quits: jasonwc (~jason@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3922[20:49:06] <jadax> I'm just pointing out that security risks (potentially even bigger ones) can be in not non-free
3923[20:49:13] <lsjet> jadax, it isn't that open-source = perfect. It's that closed source = unverifiable. Closed source can do any malicious thing its owner (not you, the xddeveloper) wants it to
3924[20:49:36] <greycat> SOME of the stuff in non-free may indeed be closed source.
3925[20:49:36] <Chunkyz> it asks for my password, I type it and it doesn't connect?
3926[20:49:57] *** Quits: namedkitten (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3939[20:53:39] <jadax> I have two displays - DisplayPort one and HDMI one. Previously (before debian 9->10 upgrade) they were called HDMI-0 and DP-1; now they are called XWAYLAND0 and XWAYLAND1
3940[20:53:44] <jadax> would you know why?
3941[20:54:00] <jadax> I'm having trouble changing display's resolution from 1920x1200 to 2560x1600
3942[20:54:05] <jadax> the HDMI one
3943[20:54:07] <dvs> jadax, Debian 10 uses Wayland, not Xorg.
3944[20:54:23] <greycat> Debian 10's GNOME uses Wayland by default, with the option to select an X session instead, at login time.
3945[20:54:37] <greycat> The rest of Debian 10 doesn't use Wayland by default.
3946[20:54:38] <jadax> oh, so wayland is alternative X server?
3947[20:54:52] <dvs> yes
3948[20:55:06] <jadax> so xrandr doesn't work with wayland?
3949[20:55:06] <mathisen> some even would say the future... lol
3968[20:57:36] <mathisen> nothing wrong with wayland, just maybe to early for some use cases. i personaly still waits for sway to be a bit better still until switching from i3
3969[20:57:42] <miskatonic> wayland does not allow for window managers such as ratpoison
3977[21:00:07] <lsjet> miskatonic, couldn't a wayland alternative be developed? I know there's a project to create a wayland-based alternative to awesomewm written in Rust.
3978[21:00:18] <jadax> so I can switch between Xorg and Wayland on log-in screen?
4007[21:06:58] <dpkg> The httpredir.debian.org redirector (based on HTTP 302s) was shutdown on 2017-02-13 and replaced by <deb.debian.org>. Existing entries in sources.list will keep working as the DNS entries for httpredir.debian.org have been pointed to deb.debian.org.
4008[21:07:17] <gvth> lembron: I calculated with bc. The most significant digits in my result are the same to yours (14908639104806613...) but the file to which I piped the bc output has 7.615.705 characters which doesn't go in line with what you posted (...×10^7398113)
4009[21:07:31] <shtrb> Welp answered to myself then, httpredir is dead long live deb
4010[21:07:53] <miskatonic> awesomewm can be configured in lua for mouseless usage, but the default configuaration of the debian package is heavily mouse-dependant.
4028[21:11:56] <lsjet> One thing I haven't found a good solution for though is handling the mod key in a qemm vm when both the host and guest run awesome. I don't want to reconfigure either OS to use a different key, but finding a VNC client that will pass the mod key to the guest without reuiring fullscreen mode has been elusive
4039[21:15:53] <jadax> I have Dell U3011 display (2560x1600 native resoultion) that I'm connecting over HDMI port to Iris 6100 GPU. I have another display connected over DisplayPort. The DisplayPort one works great, displays native resolution. The HDMI one displays 1920x1200 only. On debian 9 I used to use xrandr to --newmode, --addmode, then --output and force 2560x1600
4040[21:15:54] <jadax> resolution that way. Now whatever I do the HDMI displays stays on 1920x1200
4041[21:16:04] <miskatonic> xdotool is another paramount thing that has no equivalent on wayland
4042[21:16:05] <jadax> I'm using Xorg on debian 10
4043[21:16:08] <jadax> any suggestions?
4044[21:16:09] <gvth> lembron: are you using wolfram as a desktop application or an online service?
4045[21:16:44] *** Quits: tf2ftw (~tf2ftw@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4074[21:25:34] <lsjet> Chunkyz, Sorry not everybody runs every piece of software. Your mileage may vary. In my experience ipsec is not used nearly as often as openvpn, if a vpn is even what you are using it for.
4075[21:26:07] <jadax> well, I was happy camper with debian 9 and HDMI display @ 2560x1600 resolution, now I'm stuck with debian 10 and HDMI @1920x1200
4085[21:28:57] <jadax> so it's working on 30Hz instead of 60Hz but that's good enough
4086[21:29:14] *** milos_ is now known as Guest23449
4087[21:29:53] <HarmtH> Yeah HDMI 1.4 doesn't have enough bandwidth for that
4088[21:29:59] <lsjet> jadax, this is on a pi? did you back up the sd card before upgrading?
4089[21:30:10] <jadax> lsjet it's on Intel NUC (Iris 6100 GPU)
4090[21:30:18] <Guest23449> Hello. Can someone tell me, where binaries for buster are located? I have to download one library, traversed whole repo, but couldn't find the folder with *deb pkgs.
4091[21:30:52] <jadax> lsjet and I'm running mini-HDMI cable from NUC to DVI connector on the display
4139[21:47:17] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
4140[21:47:18] <lsjet> here's something which has bugged me forever, but never enough to find a solution: How can you change Debian's networking config (not using network manager) to pass arguments to dhclient so that it doesn'
4141[21:47:41] <lsjet> ...doesn't hang when starting a laptop on a wireless network and that network is unavailable?
4142[21:47:59] <greycat> that's the main difference between "allow-hotplug enfoo" and "auto enfoo"
4186[21:53:04] <tsglove> I just installed debian10. I wanted to install usermod, yet the package is not found. Inside sources.list I do have the buster lines buster main. What am I missing?
4211[21:57:10] <greycat> tsglove: "su" changed its behavior in buster, in a major way. It works like Red Hat now, instead of like Debian always has before.
4212[21:57:16] <tsglove> Oh yeah, I just did $su -l and with the new root login, usermod works.
4213[21:57:18] <greycat> tsglove: "sudo -s" is the closest approximation now
4238[22:03:21] <roflbot> hi guys, on a proliant g7 DL380 with a Smart Array P410i, how to change replaced disk without shutting down the whole thing? Not sure what tools are needed that are available on debian
4239[22:03:37] <roflbot> eh, s/replaced/faulty/
4240[22:03:40] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4277[22:15:52] <mutante> disi: you can't install all packages at once.. a lot of them will conflict with each other / are alternatives to other ones doing the same thing
4278[22:16:07] <mutante> disi: also.. people don't want to install stuff they dont use
4280[22:16:52] <disi> mutante: ok, but that's more about deployment, right? there could still be one giant repo that everything gets built from (but not necessarily deployed)
4291[22:20:33] <disi> a big point for me is avoiding implicit deps. everything in a single source repo can depend on anything else in that repo implicitly whereas that's harder with smaller subprojects
4292[22:20:48] <jhutchins_wk> disi: There are almost no conditions when you want every package available - over 50,000 of them.
4293[22:20:54] <mutante> disi: i'm sure there are plenty more reasons.. like permissions. would you want the same people to have merge rights on the single global repo.. or rather have the option to give maintainers right to some software but not all
4298[22:21:57] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4299[22:22:00] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4300[22:22:06] <jhutchins_wk> disi: the repositories are main, which is regular DFS packages, contrib, which is packages that may require non-free dependencies, and non-free, packages that don't meet the DFSG. The latter includes things like firmware binaries.
4309[22:23:32] <greycat> apt(8) BEING A COMMAND apparently starts in jessie
4310[22:23:41] <humpled> the APT system in general seems pretty well worked out
4311[22:23:44] *** Quits: Soo_Slow (Soo_Slow@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4312[22:23:49] <flipxyz> is debian sid comparable to arch linux in terms of updated softwares?
4313[22:23:54] <disi> mutante: at the end of the day, there are maintainers that evetually decide what pacakges get included in debian tho, right? so those are kind ultra-perms on what goes into debian? (maybe i need to read the nmg before going further)
4314[22:24:02] <greycat> flipxyz: no.
4315[22:24:08] <tarzeau> why not?
4316[22:24:12] <tarzeau> maybe sid+experimental?
4317[22:24:13] <flipxyz> greycat: whats the difference ?
4318[22:24:16] <jhutchins_wk> flipxyz: No, sid is the repository where new packages land before being promoted to testing.
4319[22:24:21] <tarzeau> repology.org has features to compare
4320[22:24:42] <tarzeau> in terms of updated software i think it's comparable
4321[22:24:45] <greycat> Arch is a shrine to the Goddess SNS. Sid is where Debian developers upload what they want to put into the next stable Debian release, eventually.
4323[22:25:06] <jhutchins_wk> disi: Actually, it's more a matter of somebody doing the work to package from upstream and maintain it that gets a package included.
4324[22:25:19] <flipxyz> greycat: makes sense
4325[22:25:22] <greycat> If your entire identity is the sum of the version numbers of your installed packages, Debian is not for you.
4330[22:26:12] <greycat> If you have ever spurned a piece of software that's less than a year old because it was "too old", Debian is not for you. I'm looking primarily at Node.JS, PHP, Python, et al. developers here.
4331[22:27:02] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4332[22:27:22] <flipxyz> greycat: no, its just because I really like to have, for example, the lastest version of Firefox and some other softwares. For me its cool, but recently I started to study debian packaging in a virtual machine and was thinking about doing a migration or something
4333[22:27:29] <greycat> !sns
4334[22:27:29] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
4335[22:27:48] <tsglove> Wow... and... did anything special happen to ssh on Buster?
4343[22:28:36] <tsglove> I'm trying to ssh into a fresh server... yet can't. I uncommented /etc/ssh/sshd_config PasswordAuthentication yes and then restarted ssh via systemctl restart
4344[22:28:37] <greycat> could be connectivity with older systems issue, could be entropy starvation issue, could be anything
4345[22:28:47] <tsglove> Ok, let me try with verbose
4346[22:29:01] <greycat> define what "can't" means
4347[22:29:16] <jhutchins_wk> tsglove: Did you install from a live disk?
4348[22:29:18] *** Quits: uniqdom (~uniqdom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4353[22:29:57] <tsglove> Ok, sorry. I tried to connect from another machine and it worked fine.
4354[22:30:04] <tsglove> Something must be up with my first-try machine
4355[22:31:21] <greycat> each openssh release deprecates some older ciphers and stuff, so if your first-try machine is running an older release or older config...
4356[22:31:39] <tsglove> Ahh.... that... might be it. I'm still checking...
4371[22:36:19] <tsglove> mason, yeah, I know. Brain-fart on my side. I was checking for the openssh version when they mentioned the verbose flags. I crossed-them. =)
4372[22:36:32] <tsglove> er, when you mason mentioned it
4385[22:41:38] <tsglove> yeah. I was super pumped the other day because I finally *actually* created an ssh tunnel from my local machine to a remote server.
4416[22:50:34] <jhutchins_wk> tarzeau: Services were transfered from Solaris to Linux with very little change, I don't know if they copied the DB binaries or just the databases.
4417[22:50:37] <tarzeau> jhutchins_wk: unless it was java software :)
4418[22:50:48] * tarzeau ROFLS LOLS i die
4419[22:51:03] <tarzeau> jhutchins_wk: well written source code, is portable
4426[22:52:05] <BCMM> jhutchins_wk: solaris had a compatibility layer for linux binaries. is it possible that they were using a database compiled for Linux on Solaris, before the migration?
4433[22:54:33] <jhutchins_wk> BCMM: MySQL, I think there was a Solaris verion, I'm not sure.
4434[22:55:00] <mason> So, greycat showed me how to find firmware images here, but how does someone looking at the web site know how to find the firmware ISOs?
4463[23:05:17] <Lady_Aleena> I was so happy this morning, I thought I had all my display issues settled. Then I opened Geany 1.33 in XFCE 4.12.5, and it my display settings didn't take for that program. apt says it depends on libgtk-3-0, but Geany appears not to be honoring my settings for it. That is if XFCE's appearance settings are GTK 3 and not 2.
4474[23:08:39] <jmcnaught> mason: the link is in the paragraph, not the <li> below it
4475[23:08:49] <noln> free firmware is already in the isos, so when you say firmware image, you mean image with non-free firmware, free being defined as freedom to modify the firmware etc. not just being gratis
4481[23:09:45] <mason> That said, I know it's a political hotbed, but it's not super easy to find. I wish it were a bit more obvious, as that'd encourage folks to run free software regardless of what hardware they've got.
4483[23:10:49] <Lady_Aleena> So, is that a debian issue, #xfce issue, or a #geany issue?
4484[23:10:50] <mason> Which is to say, encourage people to become zealots, don't force them to zealously choose hardware that is fully supported by free software in advance. :)
4496[23:14:52] <brandsti_> Hi! I am writing maintainer scripts for a two project A and B. A depends on B. the install order is B and then A. but the remove/purge order is A and B. How I can reverse the remove order?
4506[23:17:17] <Lady_Aleena> I can't stand programs like that on the command line. I get frustrated when I have to use nano to edit config files because it is the only editor I can use as root.
4507[23:17:32] <tsglove> You can´t use vi as root?
4508[23:17:36] <noln> you want to remove the leaf before the root. Think about running services, or a crash in the middle of the removal
4540[23:23:02] <Monodroid> the easier it is, the better it is. why doing complicated? on the most servers today nano is installed. i know how to use vi, but i switched to nano
4541[23:23:52] <binaryhermit> I find I quite frequently need to install it, but I have superuser rights on all the computers I use nano on
4543[23:24:43] <binaryhermit> and I'd think almost all sysadmins who have users without superuser rights without it would be willing to install it because those users tend to be kinda noob-y
4547[23:25:39] <jmcnaught> nano and vim-tiny are both Priority: important which means they would normally be installed unless "standard utilities" is not selected in the tasksel stage of the debian installer
4548[23:25:41] <kawaii> fwiw I've been doing this job for 5 years, and nano is amazing
4549[23:25:58] <Lady_Aleena> So, does my Geany appearance in XFCE problem stay here, or should I go to #xfce or #geany?
4550[23:26:12] <Monodroid> no beacause the time goes forward and the it is changing alle time. we can use the time to learn oder do other interesting things
4571[23:31:14] <binaryhermit> yeah, chrome os is google
4572[23:31:42] <binaryhermit> I've been willingly using it since 2014 with various things offloaded to linux "servers"
4573[23:32:32] <Monodroid> google is like cancer
4574[23:32:46] <binaryhermit> I'm going to try to partially migrate my desktop use to raspbian if my pi4 ever arrives and meets my needs
4575[23:33:27] <mutante> Monodroid: the most recent one that made me think that is when the "Gallery" app insisted on getting my location and contacts or it would not show me my own photo i made 2 minutes earlier
4583[23:35:16] <mutante> yea, still want to root the S5 and install LineageOS.. (sorry for offtopic, stopping now)
4584[23:35:22] <Lady_Aleena> LtL, I wouldn't know where to start on interpreting strace.
4585[23:35:52] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: you won't know until you try
4586[23:35:58] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: is the problem with Geany that it is not using the theme you want it to, or is it using the them you want but pooly somehow?
4587[23:36:09] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: at the very bottom
4588[23:36:40] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, it is NOT using the theme I want it to use.
4592[23:37:12] <Monodroid> we are really blessed that we have software like debian. without free software we had not a chance to feel free in the it world
4593[23:37:19] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: generally if you keep scrolling past all the noise.. at the bottom you can often find the real issue.. like f.e. a permission issue when trying to open a file or what file it is opening before the issue
4594[23:37:50] <Lady_Aleena> mutante, when it comes to Geany (on the command line) there is no bottom until I use Ctrl-C to stop it.
4595[23:38:00] * sunzero is away: (automatically dead ) [BX-MsgLog Off]
4596[23:38:00] * sunzero is idle, automatically dead [bX(l/on p/off)]
4597[23:38:02] <mutante> Monodroid: i assume the "droid" in your nick is not for Android then ?:)
4598[23:38:10] <Monodroid> no :)
4599[23:38:12] <mutante> Lady_Aleena: i meant strace
4600[23:38:35] <Monodroid> handys has no possibility to enforce freedom
4612[23:40:17] <mutante> Monodroid: oh, it's fine. just profiling you like Google.. just kidding
4613[23:40:30] <Monodroid> hehe
4614[23:40:37] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, Geany depends on libgtk-3-0. I assumed XFCE -> Appearance was GTK3, but I could be wrong. It could be GTK2. I am getting lost in all of these widgets.
4618[23:41:04] <dstaring> Monodroid: "the more userfriendly linux are, the better" <-- That is the exact opposite philosophy from how Linux people think.
4619[23:41:07] <Monodroid> the disaster begins when you combine the infos
4621[23:41:30] <Monodroid> easy in usability, deep in the possibilities
4622[23:41:35] <tarzeau> Monodroid: one can collect a lot of data and combine them. being not as big as google. not much of infrastructure is needed for that
4623[23:41:39] <noln> Lady_Aleena, try a theme that covers both gtk2 and gtk3, e.g. clearlooks-phenix
4668[23:46:58] <Monodroid> for me debian is the best linux distro
4669[23:47:06] <naptastic> I know Kung Fu. # cue dramatically choreographed fight scene
4670[23:47:06] <EdePopede> how worse? rely on cloud providers, use foss clients, don't care about server side. trust them if they tell you that their infrastructure is safe and has no backdoor.
4675[23:47:31] <tarzeau> Monodroid: ubuntu has like 25x more users than debian (that are popcon registered)
4676[23:47:53] <naptastic> I'm trying to build my own cloud so I get all the benefits--elasticity and offsite backups mainly--and it's hard.
4677[23:47:58] <Lady_Aleena> The reason I am thinking is might be a Geany problem is because Geany's title bar is taking on the the appearance, but nothing else.
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4704[23:51:45] <Monodroid> what the linux devs can do is to develop the best, userfriendly software. and then is the choice of each of them if they want to use and remain free or loosing control over pc
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