People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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1 [00:00:30] <rant> ws2k3: what I think is needed is to see the dmesg output from boot.. cause it would seem the kernel is doing something grub cant
2 [00:01:01] <rant> idk whats going on there cause I dont know what the hardware is.. but it could be something related to an onboard raid controller or such
3 [00:01:07] <rant> some setting changed in the bios..
4 [00:01:15] <rant> and the kernel is able to work around it
5 [00:01:18] <rant> but grub isnt
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8 [00:02:08] <rant> and perhaps some grub-probe -vvv or such
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12 [00:02:20] <rant> cause its not saying anything that is indicating wth is going on
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19 [00:03:12] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
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30 [00:06:50] <rant> ws2k3: yes, well thats neither dmesg nor grub-probe -vvv :P
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32 [00:07:14] <rant> and furthermore shows nothing useful
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34 [00:07:31] <rant> we already knew from tune2fs and the chroot that it was mounted and clean
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36 [00:08:02] <rant> question is, why is the kernel able to access the fs and grub cant.. and why would it SAY it cant, if it can find the damn images within it?
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38 [00:08:18] <rant> reason is.. cause the images it found on an already mounted fs by the kernel
39 [00:08:31] <rant> where as the probe is using low-level code grub will use before the kernel is loaded
40 [00:08:43] <rant> so the kernel is doing something to make this work, that grub cant
41 [00:09:14] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
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49 [00:12:29] <vuks> so I've been trying to get transmission 2.94 from backports with `sudo apt-get -t stretch-backports install -s transmission-daemon`, but it keeps showing that it'd install 2.92
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52 [00:14:26] <rant> ws2k3: what about (lsblk;mount)|nc termbin.com 9999 from both inside and outside the chroot?
53 [00:14:47] <f8e3> on boot there is [OK] some message; where is this log stored shown in tty1 (the tail) ?
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55 [00:15:08] <rant> ws2k3: these kinds of issues you're having are typical when there is some kind of raid,lvm,efi,or seperate /boot none of which seems to be the case here
56 [00:15:22] <rant> or some kind of VM involved
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59 [00:15:54] <rant> f8e3: its not logged most likely
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61 [00:16:25] <rant> f8e3: thats probably the output of plymouth though
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63 [00:16:49] <rant> !plymouth
64 [00:16:49] <dpkg> Plymouth presents a graphic animation while the boot process occurs in the background. It is designed to be used with <DRM> modesetting drivers and replaces both <usplash> and <splashy>. Read /usr/share/doc/plymouth/README.Debian to enable. replaced-url
65 [00:17:07] <rant> !usplash
66 [00:17:07] <dpkg> usplash is a userspace utility providing a graphical boot process via the Linux framebuffer, designed as a bootsplash replacement. Removed from Debian post-Lenny to resolve bug #593702. Ask me about <plymouth>.
67 [00:17:27] <rant> yeah.. idk.. it has a means of displaying just messages and not a splash
68 [00:17:46] <rant> by omitting the splash commandline argument or something
69 [00:18:15] <rant> f8e3: anything relevant should be in your journald use journalctl
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71 [00:18:45] <rant> I personally was just bitching recently about there not being a dmesg log anymore
72 [00:19:26] <f8e3> uff, plymouth usplash, mmh so yes thank you journalctl should be fine
73 [00:19:26] <rant> with sysv we had /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh which among other things outputted the kmsg buffer to /var/log/dmesg at the last stage of boot
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75 [00:19:51] <rant> its just ignorant they removed that.. it would've been trivial to have systemd do the same
76 [00:20:06] <rant> as an issue we saw here today has shown, journald can fail..
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78 [00:20:48] <rant> systemd's main flaw is being too damn monolithic and not preserving older more reliable means of doing things
79 [00:20:51] <f8e3> yes especially when would like to lookup the log order etc
80 [00:20:59] <rant> its way more than just a damn init system
81 [00:21:10] <f8e3> rant ranting :D
82 [00:21:20] <rant> and most of it we disable in debian and its still a bit over reaching
83 [00:21:29] <rant> f8e3: imagine that
84 [00:21:35] <rant> how bizzare
85 [00:22:16] <rant> when journald itself has failed, where does that leave you? :P
86 [00:22:17] <f8e3> i am very new to this, i need to read up first really
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88 [00:22:31] <rant> f8e3: new to what?
89 [00:22:44] <f8e3> debian os etc
90 [00:22:50] <rant> f8e3: the annoyance many of us have with systemd? :P
91 [00:23:07] <f8e3> maybe too :D
92 [00:23:13] <rant> f8e3: you can just keep using it, and hanging out here to get the hang of it :D
93 [00:23:50] <rant> at least you're not the type to just drop in ask something and leave..
94 [00:24:02] <somiaj> to offer a counter point, I find systemd nice because things are located in a single place making info easier to find.
95 [00:24:04] <rant> you're already better than a lot of the new users we see here :P
96 [00:24:10] <rant> somiaj: when it works..
97 [00:24:19] <somiaj> It has never not worked for me.
98 [00:24:26] <somiaj> and plenty of others it works just fine.
99 [00:24:29] <rant> yeah well thats fuzzy logic
100 [00:24:59] <somiaj> that is not fuzzy logic, it is a bad sample, but on the other hand, just because it broke for you doesn't mean it breaks most the time.
101 [00:25:19] <rant> it didnt break for me other than that one issue recently with the amd bug
102 [00:25:35] <somiaj> I do wish systemd was a bit more modular, so you could say take the initsystem without networkd and the various desktop elements (related to dbus, policykit) that come with it.
103 [00:25:39] <rant> but it has however twice in the last week failed users in here
104 [00:25:53] <somiaj> well this is also a bad sample, since people comming here have problems.
105 [00:26:00] <rant> because it failed to simply make a damn log of the kmsg buffer like our old bootmisc.sh did
106 [00:26:18] <rant> you are just reaffirming my point
107 [00:26:20] <somiaj> mkdir /var/log/journal should be sufficent.
108 [00:26:22] <rant> its fine WHEN IT WORKS
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110 [00:26:45] <rant> yes the lack of persistent journaling by default is also not very wise
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112 [00:27:01] <rant> but the annoying part of journalctl for support purposes is everything is all mashed together
113 [00:27:12] <rant> I can't just say pastebing /var/log/dmesg when thats all I want to see
114 [00:27:24] <rant> I can't even find that info if I had the entire journal in many cases
115 [00:27:34] <rant> like when something is spewing uncontrollably
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118 [00:28:11] <somiaj> it is easier to pull things apart form journald than some of the classic logs in /var/log. But this is not the place to complain about systemd. Just like any technology it has advantags of weakness. I personally find it nicer than sysv in many aspects which helps me understand why debian adopted it.
119 [00:28:13] <rant> we had individual logs for a reason.. sometimes all we want is a daemon log, and auth log, a dmesg log..
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122 [00:28:49] <somiaj> I think journald is far easier to get info from than daemon log and auth log, far easier to tell it to only give you info from said program.
123 [00:28:55] <rant> yes it has plenty of advantages.. and it was a needed change.. its just over reaching its scope and we're losing things in the process
124 [00:29:38] <somiaj> which is why I wish it was more modular, because I like the init system and logging, but I don't care for or need any desktop enhacments that come with logind
125 [00:29:38] <rant> for more info on this for new users and veterans alike, I suggest listening to Michael Biebl's talks.. he has some good ones out there discussing the challenges faced by implementing systemd
126 [00:30:06] <rant> yes well that part of it is unavoidable cause of all the crap that is depending upon logind
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128 [00:30:49] <somiaj> but we should get back to support, still prefer systemd rants > /dev/null. Lets support it, not compalin about it.
129 [00:31:28] <somiaj> vuks: the -s is simulation, so it won't actually do anything.
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131 [00:31:56] <vuks> I gave up anyway
132 [00:32:01] <vuks> getting qbittorrent
133 [00:32:05] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
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135 [00:32:15] <somiaj> vuks: the only thing you needed to do was remove the -s, so it actually installed it
136 [00:32:22] <vuks> errr no?
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138 [00:32:35] <vuks> I don't think you have the whole image here
139 [00:32:45] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
140 [00:33:11] <vuks> I was trying to get newest transmission from stretch-backports, yet it would still install the current stable version
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142 [00:33:21] <vuks> I did try it without -s
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144 [00:33:56] <somiaj> vuks: I told you why that is happening, the -s is simulation. So what is the output you get without the -s? what does 'apt policy transmission-daemon' show.
145 [00:34:17] <rant> ws2k3: did you do (lsblk;mount)|nc termbin.com 9999 ? was that inside or outside the chroot?
146 [00:34:25] <somiaj> the info you pasted suggested the reason it asn't installing the stretch-backports version was because you didn't actually tell your system to install it (the -s)
147 [00:34:28] <rant> cause if you did it like I said, there is no output from mount
148 [00:34:48] <ws2k3> rant i did 2 termbin pasted
149 [00:35:01] <ws2k3> cause one command outpouted to sterr and the other didnt
150 [00:35:20] <vuks> i did it without -s, still got the older version
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152 [00:35:41] <vuks> apt policy was the same, literally ignoring the backport
153 [00:36:05] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
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155 [00:36:48] <somiaj> vuks: provide actualy output. The output of 'apt -t stretch-backports install transmission-daemon' and the output of 'apt policy transmission-daemon'
156 [00:36:51] <rant> ws2k3: you'll also note that in that first paste you did, it did not show the swap partition on sda5
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159 [00:37:35] <somiaj> ,v transmission-daemon
160 [00:37:36] <judd> Package: transmission-daemon on amd64 -- jessie: 2.84-0.2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.84-0.2+deb8u1; stretch: 2.92-2+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.92-2+deb9u1; buster: 2.94-2; sid: 2.94-2
161 [00:38:00] <somiaj> though I think I figured ou tthe problem. There is no transmission-daemon package in stretch-backports. So it will not install version 2.94 from there, because it is not there
162 [00:38:05] <rant> ws2k3: I can't make any sense of those.. the point was to run exactly what I said from outside and inside the chroot to see if they could both access certain things and had the same data
163 [00:38:31] <somiaj> if you would have provided the output of apt policy transmission-daemon it should be clear that that package is not in stretch-backports.
164 [00:38:33] <rant> neither is showing what you'd showed me before is the partition layout
165 [00:38:58] <rant> and both are leading me to believe lsblk succeeded and mount failed without error
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167 [00:39:44] <rant> lsblk uses /sys where mount does not
168 [00:39:59] <vuks> somiaj: replaced-url
169 [00:40:01] <rant> they get their information from two different places
170 [00:40:17] <rant> the whole point here was trying to figure out wth is going on
171 [00:40:41] <somiaj> vuks: and 'apt policy transmission-daemon'
172 [00:40:44] <vuks> somiaj: replaced-url
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174 [00:41:04] <rant> which is all based on assuming that earlier paste was output of grub-probe -vvv which I highly doubt as it was less than 5 lines
175 [00:41:24] <rant> and still didnt have the output of dmesg to reference it against
176 [00:41:32] <somiaj> vuks: first off, look at the output there, the only version available is 2.92 from raspbian. Second you are running raspbian, which is not suppored here
177 [00:41:35] <somiaj> !raspbian
178 [00:41:36] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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181 [00:41:43] <somiaj> vuks: please use raspbian support for raspbian
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183 [00:47:03] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
184 [00:47:08] <ws2k3> rant like that?
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186 [00:49:38] <rant> ws2k3: yes, aside from the fact as I said, the swap partition I saw before on sda5 is not showing up, that looks as it should.. shows that you bound all the filesystems..etc
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188 [00:49:58] <rant> not seeing a partition that was there before leads me back to thinking the partition table is fubar
189 [00:50:01] <ws2k3> rant i uncommented the swap partition in fstab so that sounds about right
190 [00:50:12] <rant> lsblk isnt reading fstab
191 [00:50:17] <ws2k3> hmm yeah
192 [00:50:38] <ws2k3> so how can/should i proceed?
193 [00:50:43] <rant> its reading /sys/dev/block
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195 [00:52:00] <rant> I still say that it seems like a partition table issue of some kind (which gparted can usually find, and gpart can fix) and regardless the issue is we need to know why grub can't recognize a filesystem the live media's kernel can.. which is what dmesg and grub-probe -vvv should lend clues to
196 [00:52:29] <rant> so you try one or both.. the former is guessing at the problem and the latter two commands are trying to figure out what the problem is :P
197 [00:53:28] <rant> dmesg would show me what if anything special the kernel is doing to be able to access this filesystem and the extra vvv's on grub-probe should tell exactly wtf grub cant
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199 [00:54:07] <rant> cause as I said, for all I know your server lost power, something got corrupted/changed in the bios, and now its enabled some weird disk feature that the kernel is able to circumvent but grub cannot
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201 [00:54:10] <ws2k3> i now get failed to get canonical path of 'udev'
202 [00:54:37] <rant> you get only those few lines with 3 v's?
203 [00:54:56] <rant> with 3 v's it should be outputting the kinds of errors you'd see from a C compiler.. or a debugger
204 [00:55:10] <rant> you should see actual foo.c line 3: type crap
205 [00:55:25] <rant> those messages are more like one v or no v
206 [00:55:35] <ws2k3> rant nope only replaced-url
207 [00:56:56] <rant> apparently this grub-probe doesnt understand what -vvv means
208 [00:57:37] <rant> hmm.. mine is saying the same thing @.@
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210 [00:59:00] <ws2k3> grub-probe --target=fs --device /dev/sda1 --verbose that outputs alot
211 [00:59:42] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
212 [00:59:43] <rant> ws2k3: grub-probe -vvv -t fs -d /dev/sda
213 [00:59:56] <rant> thats only one v.. what we had before
214 [01:00:34] <ws2k3> rant should -d /dev/sda or -d /dev/sda1 ?
215 [01:01:18] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
216 [01:01:53] <ws2k3> first one is with /dev/sda this one is with /dev/sda1 replaced-url
217 [01:02:24] <rant> this is what it looks like when it works replaced-url
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219 [01:02:49] <rant> yes it should be your rootfs.. my mistake.. I'm roasting my butt off here praying for rain
220 [01:04:05] <ws2k3> hehe
221 [01:04:13] <ws2k3> so what now?
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227 [01:08:49] <rant> partition 0: flag 0x80, type 0x83, start 0x800, len 0x10c12800 | partition 1: flag 0x0, type 0x82, start 0x10c13800, len 0xb65000 | partition 2: flag 0x0, type 0x0, start 0x0, len 0x0 | partition 3: flag 0x0, type 0x0, start 0x0, len 0x0
228 [01:09:20] <rant> those values, for part 0 and part 1 line up with what you showed me here replaced-url
229 [01:10:00] <rant> I'm still reading this crap.. but again.. if it were me, I'd check this against what the output of dmesg said at boot.. cause the kernel is clearly able to read this, and grub isnt
230 [01:10:25] <rant> i.e. dmesg -T | nc termbin.com 9999
231 [01:10:31] <ws2k3> so i should run dmesg in the grub rescue?
232 [01:10:44] <rant> no you can run it from the live
233 [01:10:52] <rant> the live is able to mount and read this filesystem that grub cant
234 [01:11:03] <rant> so I wanna know what it has to say about it..
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238 [01:11:43] <ws2k3> so i should run dmesg -T from the chroot?
239 [01:11:55] <rant> no, you can run it outside the chroot
240 [01:12:04] <rant> this info is coming from the live kernel so..
241 [01:12:13] <ws2k3> but then wont it whot me the dmesg from the live kernel?
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243 [01:12:27] <rant> it can only show you info from whatever kernel is running
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246 [01:12:34] <rant> and thats what I want
247 [01:12:53] <rant> wanna know what the kernel is saying about this.. how this disk is attached, detected, mounted, etc
248 [01:12:54] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
249 [01:13:08] <rant> cause lsblk and grub-probe are not agreeing with that earlier screenshot you gave me
250 [01:13:15] <rant> two partitions are blanked out
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252 [01:14:09] <rant> so it is a xeon.. figured it was either that or a ryzen when you said 24 cores
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254 [01:14:27] <ws2k3> yes xeon
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256 [01:15:24] <lessless> guys, do you know to what packages in Debian 9.9 "gettext-devel patch ncurses-devel perl-Time-HiRes libbsd-devel" in CentOS 6/7 corresponds to?
257 [01:15:29] <lessless> src: replaced-url
258 [01:16:04] <somiaj> lessless: are those centos or debian namese?
259 [01:16:15] * rant is down to 5% battery, luckily I have 2 batteries in this system
260 [01:18:06] <lessless> somiaj ceentos
261 [01:18:36] <somiaj> lessless: ahh centos names, well in debian, devel packages are of the form lib<whatever>-dev, so ones I am finding, libncurses5-dev and libbsd-dev, gettext not quite sure what libs you are needing, there is libgettextpo-dev
262 [01:18:55] <somiaj> patch comes with build-essential, if you are going to build, install that metapackage and it will pull in lots of tools including patch.
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264 [01:19:48] <somiaj> the perl-Time-HiRes is unknown to me, what perl module does it provide, you can often search for packages by their perl module name.
265 [01:19:51] <rant> ws2k3: are you using a hardware raid?
266 [01:19:56] <ws2k3> rant no
267 [01:20:03] <lessless> somiaj thanks! gettext and perl-Time-HiRes were most questionable
268 [01:20:07] <somiaj> lessless: btw patch is in the package called patch
269 [01:20:18] <rant> ws2k3: well the kernel seems to think so... there is only one disk?
270 [01:20:18] <somiaj> !tell lessless about search
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272 [01:20:30] <somiaj> lessless: so what module Time::HiRes ?
273 [01:20:35] <ws2k3> rant yes there is only one disk
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275 [01:20:42] <lessless> libtime-hires-perl I guess
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278 [01:21:46] <somiaj> I am not finding any package for Time::HiRes in debian, maybe this is included in some default perl packages.
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280 [01:22:18] <lessless> replaced-url
281 [01:22:24] <somiaj> lessless: you may have to install Time::HiRes locally from cpan, but I'm not finding it in stretch from any of my searches
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283 [01:22:44] <lessless> but `apt-get search` doesn't return any exact match
284 [01:22:48] <somiaj> lessless: that is a virtual package
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287 [01:23:11] <rant> ws2k3: well one of two things that I've been saying all along is still my best guess, either the bios suddenly has some disk feature enabled that wasnt enabled before like an onboard raid, or the partition table is FUBAR
288 [01:23:29] <somiaj> lessless: yea, Time::HiRes just seems to be included in the perl package, that page says that perl is providing that virtual package.
289 [01:23:33] <rant> ws2k3: cause the kernel and grub are not seeing all the partitions and think there are 4 of them
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291 [01:23:50] <rant> ws2k3: well kernel only sees 2, grub sees 4 and two are null length
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293 [01:24:07] <rant> ws2k3: and kernel is detecting raid6 hardware enabled
294 [01:24:30] <ws2k3> rant cause be just the mobo showing the controller but there is nothing on it
295 [01:24:32] <rant> ws2k3: so either its the bios interfering or the partition table is messed up
296 [01:25:04] <lessless> somiaj `ag hires /usr/share/perl/5.28/Time/` gives nothing
297 [01:25:15] <rant> the kernel wont give two shits about the bios, as far as linux kernel is concerned the bios is scratch memory for the most part.. but grub on the other hand has to live with it
298 [01:25:25] <ws2k3> maby we can remove them in grub?
299 [01:25:30] <lessless> ag -i hires /usr/share/perl/5.28/Time/
300 [01:27:21] <rant> ws2k3: if it were me, I'd dig around in the bios and double check that nothing goofy is turned on.. doesnt help much if you dont know what half the crap is or what was set before.. but if you know your bios well you should know if something changed.. and try gpart.. it scans the disk and looks for partition extents and optionally with a -w (if I recall correctly) can write a new partition table based on what
301 [01:27:27] <rant> it finds..
302 [01:27:45] <rant> ws2k3: if you run gpart without the -w it will just scan and report what it finds and you can compare that against what the kernel and grub say currently
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304 [01:27:54] <rant> if it differs, then you know the partition table is bad
305 [01:29:17] <somiaj> lessless: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.24.1/Time/HiRes.pm
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307 [01:29:37] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
308 [01:30:08] *** Quits: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
309 [01:30:31] <lessless> somiaj thanks, confirmed!
310 [01:30:57] <rant> ws2k3: ? the screenshot you showed me before had logical partitions
311 [01:31:02] <lessless> btw, how to remove unused versions of Perl? :D
312 [01:31:16] <ws2k3> this is what gpart shows me
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314 [01:31:36] <annadane> you uh... should probably only have one version of perl installed via apt, i guess
315 [01:32:04] <rant> ws2k3: then wtf was this: replaced-url
316 [01:32:36] <ws2k3> its the same machine
317 [01:32:43] <rant> sda5 is a logical partition.. msdos partition tables can only have 4 partitions (primary)
318 [01:33:00] <rant> and now you're telling me they're all primary and no logical/extended
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320 [01:34:46] <rant> doesn't help that grub is showing in hex and gpart in decimal, but it looks to agree..
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322 [01:34:52] <ws2k3> hmm i think it shoudent matter if i run gpart withint or outside the chroot right?
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325 [01:35:44] <rant> and that you keep doing screenshots so I can't parse the crap out :P
326 [01:35:57] <ws2k3> i understand sorry
327 [01:36:00] <rant> ws2k3: not if the proc sys dev are mounted, it'd work fine
328 [01:36:15] <rant> partition 0: flag 0x80, type 0x83, start 0x800, len 0x10c12800 | partition 1: flag 0x0, type 0x82, start 0x10c13800, len 0xb65000 | partition 2: flag 0x0, type 0x0, start 0x0, len 0x0 | partition 3: flag 0x0, type 0x0, start 0x0, len 0x0
329 [01:36:21] <rant> thats what grub-probe said
330 [01:36:39] <rant> 281094144
331 [01:36:39] <rant> More info
332 [01:36:43] <rant> bah
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334 [01:37:54] <rant> 0x10c12800 is 281094144 and 0xb65000 is 11948032
335 [01:38:08] <rant> and those look to be the same numbers you got in gpart
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339 [01:38:48] <rant> starting at 2048 you have a 281094144 root partition followed by a 2 sector offset 11948032 swap partition
340 [01:39:08] <rant> as for the earlier screenshot which said the swap was logical, idk.. you must've changed the partition table
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342 [01:39:24] <rant> or else something really f'n weird is going on
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344 [01:40:03] <ws2k3> rant a new grub-probe paste replaced-url
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346 [01:41:18] <ws2k3> rant (ran from within the chroot)
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349 [01:41:48] <rant> ws2k3: replaced-url
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352 [01:42:29] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
353 [01:42:43] <rant> yours however says grub-core/kern/fs.c:78: ext2 detection failed.
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358 [01:45:46] <rant> ws2k3: not that it matters but you pasted the same link twice :P
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360 [01:47:02] <ws2k3> rant replaced-url
361 [01:47:09] <rant> I just dont see how the hell I have an ssd with encrypted lvm and it has to go through all that opening of a crypt, loading of a lvm vg, and still finds my ext4 rootfs, and your fs is mounted, chrooted, clean, and is totally vanilla and its not seeing it
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364 [01:47:52] <rant> the only difference on our actual filesystems other than the size and contents, is the metadata_csum feature I have on mine
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367 [01:48:35] <rant> I am not good with grub at all, but afaik there is nothing in any of its configs that could be on your fs that could cause it to not probe a fs
368 [01:48:59] <rant> an fs that is mounted and working, with no sort of raid, lvm, crypto, or anything in its way
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370 [01:49:28] <rant> so if its not the fs, the partition table, that pretty much leaves only the software.. either the bios software or the grub software
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372 [01:49:46] <rant> techically the bios would be more /firm/ ware
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374 [01:50:09] <rant> ws2k3: have you by chance checked to see if grub or kernel had upgraded recently before this powerfailure?
375 [01:50:17] <rant> ws2k3: checked your apt/dpkg logs?
376 [01:50:44] <rant> ws2k3: or dug around to see if thats even what happened.. what the actuall cause of this was.. was it even a power failure?
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379 [01:51:24] <rant> I'm just assuming it was a power failure
380 [01:51:30] <ws2k3> i will check this further mirrow getting kinda late here
381 [01:52:13] <rant> yeah you need to get more logs.. and if you can't resolve this you need to compile all the logs nicely for further review in other places like the mailing lists or such
382 [01:52:45] <ws2k3> yeah i will do that thanks for ur time rant
383 [01:53:20] * rant was doing nothing but sweatin the heat
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420 [02:25:46] <jasonwc> I inadvertently discovered that a shortcut to an NFS share will prevent Cinnamon from starting if the share cannot be mounted. It just fails to load and brings you back to gdm without any indication of the cause. Is this really the expected behavior?
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461 [02:58:13] <Kremator> folks, can somebody pin me out the link to the debian archiuve repos?
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463 [02:59:28] <EdePopede> Kremator, this? replaced-url
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466 [03:00:10] <Kremator> EdePopede, exactly that, thanls
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484 [03:23:33] <zoredache> Where would I submit a bug for the 'mini.iso' image? replaced-url
485 [03:23:53] <zoredache> For some reason that seems to be dropping directly to a grub prompt instead of actually giving me a menu or booting the installer
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490 [03:29:32] <llldjssjd> hi
491 [03:29:47] <llldjssjd> How can I set a password for an iRC channel?
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493 [03:31:02] <jmcnaught> llldjssjd: #freenode is a better place to ask
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495 [03:31:36] <uptime> llldjssjd: Probably a better question for the network help channel for whatever network you're using (in this network's case, #freenode), but anyway you'll need to op up (/msg chanserv help op) then /mode ##channel +k yourPasswordGoesHere
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518 [03:55:37] <naribia> I need package "protobuf-compiler" at least version 3.6.0 but the only version I see on debian stretch is 3.0.0 ? is there to get the upgraded package
519 [03:56:28] <rabbitear_sdf> replaced-url
520 [03:56:49] <rabbitear_sdf> naribia: you could look up backports
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525 [04:00:43] <Crapoto> Nice music i love it
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543 [04:19:41] <somiaj> rabbitear_sdf: you do know that such links are off topic here, share such links elsewhere
544 [04:19:50] <somiaj> ,v protobuf-compiler
545 [04:19:51] <judd> Package: protobuf-compiler on amd64 -- jessie: 2.6.1-1; stretch: 3.0.0-9; stretch-backports: 3.6.1-4~bpo9+1; buster: 3.6.1.3-2; sid: 3.6.1.3-2
546 [04:20:04] <somiaj> Nefertiti: 3.6.1 is in stretch-backports
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550 [04:24:47] <Nefertiti> =)
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553 [04:25:19] <annadane> really not a support question but do we know the # of pkgs in buster?
554 [04:25:45] <dvs> annadane, why? So you can file bugs against them all? ;-P
555 [04:26:04] <annadane> exactly
556 [04:26:08] <dvs> heh
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580 [04:54:11] <geri> hi how can i install perf on debian?
581 [04:54:25] <geri> i tried:
582 [04:54:39] <geri> replaced-url
583 [04:54:53] <geri> E: Failed to fetch replaced-url
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589 [05:00:23] <TheSov> join #rasbian
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591 [05:00:30] <dvs> no!
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627 [05:50:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1484
628 [05:50:30] <zophyx> is there a way to disable certain commands like 'rm' from being able to be executed with the sudo command
629 [05:50:32] <zophyx> ?
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636 [05:59:24] <somiaj> zophyx: sure, configure your sudoers
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639 [05:59:53] <somiaj> zophyx: though you can't really exclude a command (someone could make a copy, rename it etc). But what you can do is list exactly which commands someone is allowed to run with sudo
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642 [06:01:05] <zophyx> somiaj, ah, thanks, i'm glad it's that simple
643 [06:01:27] <somiaj> zophyx: man sudoers then to edit it, run 'visudo' as root
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647 [06:07:57] <maxrazer> Does anyone know how to get the ds4drv driver and bluetooth working?
648 [06:08:10] <maxrazer> I think I need to scan and pair the device before running ds4drv.
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651 [06:08:54] <maxrazer> hcitool scan says "Device is not available: No such device"
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653 [06:09:57] <somiaj> do you have firmware for your bluetooth installed? you sure it the kernel has detected it and loaded its module correctly
654 [06:10:11] <maxrazer> hciconfig lists a BD address, but it says DOWN on the next line.
655 [06:10:28] <maxrazer> I've gotten it working before. I just can't remember how. I don't think there is any bluetooth driver problem.
656 [06:10:52] <maxrazer> I also tried systemctl start bluetooth.service
657 [06:11:25] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ()
658 [06:15:06] <maxrazer> [error][daemon] 'hcitool clock' returned error. Make sure your bluetooth device is powered up with 'hciconfig hciX up'
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686 [07:03:25] <livin> hi
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704 [07:26:06] <kts> hi
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722 [07:49:47] <aypea[1]> hey. what's the kernel option to disable all the mitigations for spectre/meltdown? I think there was one that nerfed them all but I cannot remember it.
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734 [07:57:07] <avu> aypea[1]: replaced-url
735 [07:57:45] <aypea[1]> yeah saw that. explains why it has "mitigations=off" and the rest.
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737 [08:00:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1478
738 [08:00:06] <aypea[1]> mitigations=off goes live with 5.2 - not released, yet :/
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741 [08:02:46] <livin> hi
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756 [08:10:33] *** Quits: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
757 [08:11:27] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
758 [08:11:41] *** Joins: livin (~livin@replaced-ip )
759 [08:13:03] *** Joins: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip )
760 [08:13:33] *** astra`` is now known as starwave
761 [08:13:47] *** Quits: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
762 [08:13:49] *** starwave is now known as astra``
763 [08:14:07] *** Quits: mjsir911 (~msirabell@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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765 [08:14:46] *** Quits: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
766 [08:14:56] *** Joins: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip )
767 [08:15:39] <kreyren> need help: replaced-url
768 [08:15:52] <kreyren> aptli replaced-url
769 [08:16:07] *** Joins: livin2 (~yaaic@replaced-ip )
770 [08:16:52] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
771 [08:16:58] *** Quits: keepsmile (~keepsmile@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
772 [08:17:42] <livin> hi
773 [08:17:49] <livin2> hi
774 [08:17:53] <livin2> Enna panra
775 [08:18:02] <livin> na nallrkean
776 [08:18:08] *** Quits: preview (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
777 [08:18:09] <livin> ne epdi iruka
778 [08:18:17] <livin2> fine
779 [08:18:47] *** Quits: livin2 (~yaaic@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
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781 [08:19:00] *** Quits: livin (~livin@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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783 [08:21:20] *** Quits: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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789 [08:23:43] *** Quits: EmleyMoor (~phil@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Reboot needed)
790 [08:23:55] *** Quits: null1337 (~WhoAmI@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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807 [08:37:10] <kreyren> fixed the issue by getting bumblebee-nvidia
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820 [08:50:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1487
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836 [08:55:47] <denebol80> ?
837 [08:57:13] *** Quits: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip ) ()
838 [08:58:53] *** Quits: rustbuckett (~downtime@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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846 [09:01:54] *** Quits: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
847 [09:02:55] *** Quits: kopper (~mrbabar@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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850 [09:06:28] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
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852 [09:07:13] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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855 [09:10:18] *** Joins: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip )
856 [09:10:23] *** Quits: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
857 [09:11:09] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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861 [09:15:02] *** Joins: interrobangd (~interroba@replaced-ip )
862 [09:16:25] *** Joins: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip )
863 [09:17:09] *** Quits: noosanon (~noosanon@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
864 [09:17:30] *** Quits: bralyclow (bralyclow@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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875 [09:27:21] *** Quits: troys (~troy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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877 [09:29:01] *** Quits: wavelength (~pi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
878 [09:29:13] *** Quits: Cueball (~lee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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882 [09:30:43] *** Quits: mayurvpatil_ (~mayurvpat@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
883 [09:32:42] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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885 [09:35:13] *** Quits: Gabemo (~znc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ...)
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889 [09:38:07] *** Quits: nuuuciano__ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
890 [09:38:42] *** Quits: jmarsac2 (~jmarsac@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection timed out)
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893 [09:41:47] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
894 [09:42:31] <darxmurf> installing a debian on a SATA SSD plugged on a SATA to IDE interface \o/
895 [09:42:38] *** Joins: Rovanion (~rovanion@replaced-ip )
896 [09:43:10] *** Joins: beaver (~none@replaced-ip )
897 [09:44:30] <Rovanion> I have a ip conflict on my network. I know which one of the machines are but only the MAC of the second machine. I've looked through the MAC addresses of the machines under my control and none of them match. Do you have ideas on how to identify this second machine?
898 [09:45:07] <Habbie> Rovanion, the MAC address may tell you the brand
899 [09:45:10] *** Joins: Secret-Fire (~Secret-Fi@replaced-ip )
900 [09:45:15] <Habbie> Rovanion, look for an OUI table
901 [09:45:32] <Rovanion> Right! That's true.
902 [09:46:21] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
903 [09:46:28] *** Joins: mayurvpatil_ (~mayurvpat@replaced-ip )
904 [09:46:30] <Rovanion> Well, it's a broadcom networking card.
905 [09:46:48] <Habbie> that's not super helpful
906 [09:46:54] <Rovanion> Nope...
907 [09:47:12] <Habbie> time to walk the building pulling plugs
908 [09:47:23] *** Joins: Belkachait08 (~Belkachai@replaced-ip )
909 [09:48:06] *** Quits: mayurvpatil_ (~mayurvpat@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
910 [09:48:37] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
911 [09:48:54] <Rovanion> The machine could be in another building I'm afraid. In another country.
912 [09:49:04] *** Joins: larue94 (~kylin@replaced-ip )
913 [09:49:27] <Habbie> your lan segment extends over countries?
914 [09:49:36] <Rovanion> Not my idea.
915 [09:49:38] <Habbie> ok
916 [09:49:54] <Habbie> then, trace it through the MAC tables in the switches?
917 [09:50:54] *** Joins: wavelength (~pi@replaced-ip )
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920 [09:51:32] *** Joins: Namber (~luca@replaced-ip )
921 [09:52:04] <Rovanion> You're reminding me why I don't like my job. Only the network team are allowed access to the switches. But that would be a sane thing to do, yes.
922 [09:52:58] *** Quits: humpled (~humbag@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
923 [09:53:04] *** Quits: larue94 (~kylin@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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927 [09:55:03] *** Quits: humbot (~humbag@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
928 [09:56:34] *** grumble is now known as blockchain
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930 [09:57:08] *** Quits: Sohron (sohron@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
931 [09:58:23] *** Quits: AndrewMC (~amc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
932 [09:58:41] *** Parts: Belkachait08 (~Belkachai@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
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954 [10:10:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1497
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960 [10:12:32] <livin> hi
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980 [10:26:45] <mojikun> is apt or apt-get/apt-cache recommended?
981 [10:26:46] <mojikun> i feel the old tools might be more reliable, and surely are more featureful and battle tested
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986 [10:28:53] <Johann> mojikun: apt is recommended for end users
987 [10:30:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1503
988 [10:30:25] <Johann> apt-get and co are still recommended for using in scripts/tools
989 [10:30:35] <Johann> see replaced-url
990 [10:31:29] *** Joins: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip )
991 [10:31:41] *** Joins: Blommie01 (~blommie01@replaced-ip )
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1000 [10:38:08] <mojikun> Johann, seems to me apt is less tested (obviously since its newer) and has less features
1001 [10:38:29] <mojikun> also its weird not everything is documented. for example you can do : apt-get autoremove
1002 [10:38:38] <mojikun> i tried apt autoremove, it works too. but its not in the manual
1003 [10:38:54] <mojikun> is that thing like a wrapper or a totally new software?
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1005 [10:40:45] *** Joins: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip )
1006 [10:43:17] <Johann> I am unsure, I always assumed it was mostly a wrapper with some default options changed.
1007 [10:44:17] <mojikun> Johann, someone told me here before i think its a new program
1008 [10:44:35] <Johann> apt-get and apt-cache are completly fine to use, there's nothing wrong with them, apt is mostly just providing a nicer ui
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1013 [10:46:40] <wrksx__> hey
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1015 [10:47:00] *** Quits: stcktrce (~stcktrce@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1016 [10:47:07] *** Quits: downtrip (~downtrip@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
1017 [10:47:46] <wrksx__> Are partition type just a label, and is it changeable without recreating the partition, or do I need to remove the partition and recreate it with the desired type?
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1019 [10:50:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1509
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1021 [10:50:11] <f8e3> i have just run dd if=deva and of=devb now i cannot but deva, it says unexpected inconsistency run fsck manually
1022 [10:50:19] <f8e3> *boot
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1027 [10:51:47] <f8e3> wow, now fsck ok, but WHY is was scared, does dd write to if ?
1028 [10:51:53] <Habbie> it does not
1029 [10:52:09] <f8e3> no modifications whatsoever?
1030 [10:52:23] <Habbie> it only reads from it
1031 [10:52:49] <f8e3> i just wanted to clone my ssd, is this the right way to do it? no matter if luks or hdd bios pw etc?
1032 [10:53:19] <Habbie> assuming deva is not being written to during the dd, it's a way that works, yes
1033 [10:53:26] <wrksx__> where deva and devb on the same disk ?
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1035 [10:53:47] <f8e3> deva ssd internal, devb usb3.0 hdd
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1037 [10:54:03] <f8e3> and by swapping the deva with devb later i reverse it
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1039 [10:55:11] <wrksx__> since dd strictly copy, there was a conflict between the two disks ?
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1043 [10:56:15] <f8e3> wrksx__ it is only about bytes from a to b, how come incompatible, both mass storages
1044 [10:56:41] <wrksx__> same id or something ?
1045 [10:57:11] <f8e3> partition type you recreate the parition (if you mean ext4 etc)
1046 [10:58:11] <wrksx__> no I mean "Linux FileSystem" versus "Linux LVM"
1047 [10:58:48] <Habbie> you should be able to change that without recreating the partition
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1052 [11:01:00] <wrksx__> Habbie: perfect thanks.
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1124 [11:45:47] <jelly> !qotd0
1125 [11:45:47] <dpkg> <stuckey> Anyone here understand cmake? <Slurb> i know that its the c version of make
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1128 [11:46:44] <OneKekMan> Question: Is there a mechanism pausing processes and/or network upon user switch?
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1132 [11:47:41] <OneKekMan> This is regarding stretch.
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1137 [11:50:22] <kreyren> Is there any effective way to switch GPU drivers?
1138 [11:50:29] <kreyren> i want to switch nouveau and nvidia on demand
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1143 [11:51:58] <met> kreyren, maybe with update-alternatives
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1150 [11:54:09] <kreyren> met, how?
1151 [11:56:11] <kreyren> ah config glx
1152 [11:56:13] <kreyren> got it
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1157 [11:56:44] <OneKekMan> Aptitude seems to come to a halt when switching X vtys away from the user that is running it.
1158 [11:56:46] <kreyren> can i somehow apply changes without rebooting it?
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1160 [11:57:21] <OneKekMan> Does systemd stop the processes of background users?
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1162 [11:57:39] <OneKekMan> on vty swith?
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1165 [11:57:54] <OneKekMan> s/swith/switch/
1166 [11:58:03] <jolt> OneKekMan: That sounds very strange. That should not happen afaik
1167 [11:58:08] <Anonops> I am not able to connect internet wireless in kali linux anyone can help me with this
1168 [11:58:45] <jelly> !kali
1169 [11:58:45] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
1170 [11:59:04] <OneKekMan> Aptitude (in konsole) halts downloading when switching vtys to another (non-sudo) user in stretch, jolt.
1171 [11:59:34] <jelly> OneKekMan: that seems unlikely
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1174 [11:59:45] <OneKekMan> It's the case.
1175 [12:00:06] <OneKekMan> Is systemd stopping network access then?
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1177 [12:00:40] <jelly> I guess it's possible if your network is managed by NetworkManager and not /etc/network/interfaces
1178 [12:00:57] <Anonops> Idk but i am not able to acess internet wireless
1179 [12:01:10] <OneKekMan> It probably is, it's KDE task
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1182 [12:02:03] <jolt> NetworkManager et al is black magic voodoo to me, so I don't have a saying in that. See if apt or apt-get does the same?
1183 [12:02:14] <jelly> I know N-M does that when a machine is suspended; it's possible a similar action is taken on user switch
1184 [12:02:20] <kreyren> met, that seems to work thanks
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1189 [12:03:15] <OneKekMan> If I switch away for a minute, and switch back, time estimate is in the days and maybe a few more packages have downloaded. Estimate is back under an hour within fifteen sec.
1190 [12:03:40] <jelly> that does sound like the whole network access going down
1191 [12:04:01] <jelly> leave a "ping google.com" instead of aptitude to confirm
1192 [12:04:18] <at0m> quite unlikely to be related to konsole window switch IMO
1193 [12:04:46] <jelly> user session switch, not Alt-Tab window switch
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1199 [12:07:14] <OneKekMan> user switch (either ctrl+alt+Fx or lock -> switch)
1200 [12:07:52] <jelly> except switching to tty console should not stop any network
1201 [12:08:07] <OneKekMan> Between two X sessions
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1205 [12:09:47] <jelly> perhaps setting the particular network connection to "All users may connect to this network" might help?
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1209 [12:10:27] <rocketmagnet> hi guys, i'm searching for a good opensource software to cut a long mp3 file (a full album) into single songs - can somehone here recommends somethings ?
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1211 [12:10:47] <met> kreyren, you're welcome
1212 [12:10:53] <OneKekMan> Huh, ping doesn't die, and aptitude doesn't stop.
1213 [12:11:07] <OneKekMan> at least while ping is running
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1216 [12:11:47] <jelly> dselect: wb
1217 [12:11:47] <dselect> thanks, jelly. It's good to be back.
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1220 [12:12:23] <OneKekMan> Thanks for the help guys.
1221 [12:12:25] *** Parts: OneKekMan (~user@replaced-ip ) ()
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1229 [12:14:01] <at0m> rocketmagnet: mpgtx and its tools
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1232 [12:16:28] <at0m> rocketmagnet: another way would be a .cue file (say, for a live album where one song transitions in the other)
1233 [12:17:31] <at0m> that'll make sure the gig can be played uninteruptedly anywhere, and on players that support .cue you'll be able to jump tracks, get titles etc
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1251 [12:26:30] <dooteo> Hi there,
1252 [12:26:48] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1253 [12:26:52] <Sveta> hi dooteo
1254 [12:26:54] <K_tester> Hi, is it normal I don't see the users list on the left (screen) using irssi
1255 [12:26:55] <K_tester> ?
1256 [12:27:00] <dooteo> how can I set multicast route into /etc/network/interfaces?
1257 [12:27:01] <K_tester> Hi dooteo & Sveta :)
1258 [12:27:15] <dooteo> writing a line like 'ip route add -net 224.0.0.0 netmask 240.0.0.0 dev eth0'
1259 [12:27:19] <dooteo> does not work
1260 [12:27:39] *** K_tester is now known as grungy
1261 [12:28:01] <Sveta> grungy: I think it is normal for irssi
1262 [12:28:02] <dooteo> networking service claims: Error: inet prefix is expected rather than "-net"
1263 [12:28:03] <jolt> dooteo: under an interface, writeh "up <your line>"
1264 [12:28:09] <Sveta> grungy: you can use a script to add it, see scripts.irssi.org
1265 [12:28:17] <jolt> dooteo: ip route add 224.0.0.0/4 dev ethX or so
1266 [12:28:20] <dooteo> okey, let me try
1267 [12:28:32] <Habbie> why do you want to add that route?
1268 [12:28:34] <jolt> dooteo: route add -net is for the old "route" command, not the same as "ip route"
1269 [12:29:06] <dooteo> jolt: Ouch, I didn't know...
1270 [12:29:11] <grungy> Sveta: Nevermind, it had to load. I see the list now. And my bad, that was off-topic.
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1274 [12:32:46] <willemb> How do i use InaccessableDirectories in a unit file?
1275 [12:33:00] <willemb> i keep getting Unknown lvalue 'InaccessableDirectories' in section 'Service'
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1280 [12:37:21] <humpled> is that really how you spell inaccessible?
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1284 [12:41:26] <dooteo> jolt: it works!! added 'up ip route add 224.0.0.0/4 dev eth0' line to /etc/network/interfaces
1285 [12:41:40] <Sveta> grungy: no worries; you're welcome in #irssi any day
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1287 [12:42:35] <dooteo> another question related with this one, is iproute2 used to set multicast routings too?
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1289 [12:43:49] <dooteo> I mean, there is a dir /etc/iproute2 to set rt_tables and rt_tables.d/, which are the proper steps to configure it?
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1340 [13:08:58] <dooteo> Gotta got, lot of thanks jolt!
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1349 [13:13:57] <Marbug> Hi there, is there any way to get lxd working on debian 10 ?
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1396 [13:42:25] <tsglove> Marbug, what error are you getting?
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1436 [14:06:59] <Marbug> nothing tsglove the apt doesn't have the lxd package, even when I install it through snap, the lxd command isn't there, and actually I can't seem to find anything about lxd on debian either, I find pages that says that people got it installed, others that say that it isn't supported for debian. So I'm quite confusezd there
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1455 [14:16:05] <tsglove> Ahh... hmm...
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1457 [14:18:21] <vlt> Fox: Thank you.
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1462 [14:25:24] <ksk> Marbug: there is no lxd command, you use "lxc" to control it - or so I do on my lxd ubuntu box..
1463 [14:26:08] <ksk> as debian 10 has apparmor, it might be supported ( that was the issue in the past.. )
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1465 [14:26:14] <n48680> I come in peace
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1469 [14:28:41] <Marbug> yes true, I also meant the lxc commad, it isn't there :) But shouldn't the lxd binary be there too as that is the init daemon that should run
1470 [14:28:49] <Marbug> Maybe I need to add specific repo sources
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1472 [14:29:31] <ksk> you should rethink your methods imho, does not sound too sane what you are doing ;)
1473 [14:29:53] <ksk> like, hasnt lxd documentation explaining how to run it on debian?
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1480 [14:37:23] <Marbug> I'm just mentioning that if you would search or a binary for lxd, that you would have an lxd, but also an lxc binary. I tried to follow an lxd tutorial, but could only find one that worked best for snap, so it installed it, but no lxd command was available
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1485 [14:39:15] <Marbug> ok, there is jsut some things lacking in the PATH of deban 10
1486 [14:39:27] <Marbug> seems lxc binary can be found under /snap/bin/
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1492 [14:42:00] * EdePopede wonders why snap doesn't go into /opt but instead prefers to break the FHS
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1494 [14:44:50] <dvs> EdePopede, I thought /opt was offlimits for .deb packages, like /usr/local
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1497 [14:45:17] <velix> The last releases, the was a "approximation bot", which approximated the release date of buster. Does this still exist?
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1500 [14:46:33] <EdePopede> dvs: there's snap, a science package (something with medicine), i think snap the package manager (or whatever it exactly is) is meant
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1511 [14:52:49] <inch> Why doesn't exim tell the exact version in its 220 answer when connecting? 4.89 (in stretch) had a remote explitable flaw and now ISPs are scanning their networks and harassing all exim users even they have upgrades to 4.89-2+deb9u4.
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1514 [14:54:34] <dvs> Sounds like a lack of knowledge on the ISPs part
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1518 [14:55:09] <inch> They can't tell the differecne between 4.89-2+deb9u3 and 4.89-2+deb9u4 because exim doesn't tell which one it is.
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1520 [14:56:22] <inch> One of the IPS's even firewalled one of my exims, because I had jessie's 4.84_2 there.
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1531 [14:59:44] <inch> And opened it later when I explained the version number range of the exploit.
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1535 [15:02:05] <livin> hi
1536 [15:02:12] <dvs> lo
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1538 [15:02:25] <dvs> !next
1539 [15:02:25] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1545 [15:04:14] <EdePopede> !prev
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1547 [15:04:24] <EdePopede> oh, no double linking
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1561 [15:15:18] <Anonops> Hey friends how do i start my carreer in bug bounty i need help in this
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1563 [15:15:39] <ksk> Anonops: eh?
1564 [15:15:55] <ksk> !crossposting
1565 [15:15:58] <Anonops> Bug bounty like hackerone
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1568 [15:16:18] <ksk> We do not like you crossposting your question here, and on oftc btw..
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1570 [15:16:41] <finn0> !irclog
1571 [15:16:41] <dpkg> it has been said that irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at replaced-url
1572 [15:16:44] <ksk> how is that question related to debian at all? this is a debian support channel
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1574 [15:19:28] <f8e3> if a setting is not available (mousepad) what do i do, source compile it?
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1576 [15:19:45] <f8e3> id like to disalbe the "do want to save?" query upon close
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1578 [15:20:13] <ksk> f8e3: is this an option in mouesepad, or not? if yes, in which version was it introduced?
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1580 [15:20:37] <ksk> and then, is this version wich introduced that option newer than whats available in debian?
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1583 [15:21:26] <f8e3> ksk i have Mousepad 0.4.0, default from deb sources.list, not configured, checked all the gui settings, deb9.9
1584 [15:21:59] <ksk> soo, you are basicly asking how to introduce a funtionallity to some software? not really scope of this channel..
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1586 [15:22:18] <f8e3> ok, which one better?
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1588 [15:22:35] <ksk> contacting the mousepad devs, and creating a feature-request-bugreport -if they have such things
1589 [15:22:50] <ksk> that is, the upstream mouesepad devs, not the debian package maintainers.
1590 [15:23:00] <f8e3> yes, ok thank you
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1592 [15:24:06] <ksk> !next
1593 [15:24:06] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1596 [15:31:30] <finn0> Can I level the output of syslog same as dmesg(sudo dmesg -k -l warn,err)? Because it's very hard to find which line is print from stderr or stdout?
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1599 [15:33:15] <finn0> Currently I'm using vim with hightlight syntax which color stderr with red strip. But, cannot differentiate between warning and normal stdout output.
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1602 [15:35:19] <TheUnknown67> Does anyone know how to change the icon theme in IceWM?
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1605 [15:37:33] <TheUnknown67> Never mind.
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1618 [15:49:48] <ksk> finn0: do you have journalctl? you could use -u to specify showing logs related to one service only.
1619 [15:50:06] <ksk> apart from grepping "WARN" or so in syslog I dont know of a way.
1620 [15:50:13] <ksk> as its just a textfile.
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1639 [16:03:50] <finn0> ksk: yep, but I'm struggling with getting colored after piping journalctl output to less (`sudo journalctl -xb | less` and also tried `sudo journalctl -xb | less -R`). As far as remember journalctl have color option like dmesg --color and don't want print that long message on terminal. So, is any solution for getting colored output of journatctl after piping to less? For now, I've a solution only print
1640 [16:03:51] <finn0> concerned unit output.
1641 [16:04:30] <ksk> dunno, sorry. maybe #systemd is a better place to ask (though its totally on-topic in here, too)
1642 [16:04:56] <somiaj> wonder if it is less, I have had other programs who give colored output not have color after piping through less
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1644 [16:05:44] <greycat> less -R is the correct answer to THAT half, but they already did that. The issue is in the sending half, journalctl, which only uses colors when writing to a tty.
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1646 [16:06:41] <somiaj> less even with -R it isn't working for ls or apt cache search fvwm
1647 [16:06:44] <greycat> replaced-url
1648 [16:06:58] <finn0> ksk: output of journalctl very much different from syslog. Some of error messages in syslog are missing in journalctl which I'm looking for.
1649 [16:07:02] <somiaj> though might be something similar, that apps notice the pip and stop coloring things.
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1651 [16:07:29] <finn0> Does both handle by different program or demon?
1652 [16:07:52] <jmcnaught> so don't pipe to less? journalctl automatically uses a pager if there are more lines than it can fit on the screen, and that has colour
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1654 [16:08:59] <greycat> yeah, it's not clear what the actual goal is
1655 [16:09:04] <somiaj> I think it is that multiple programs are writting to that log, so though journalctl might have that info you may ahve to request it separtally. Yea man syslog seems to give one syslog() function, which allows multiple programs to write to the log.
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1664 [16:10:37] <finn0> jmcnaught: thats not true. Most of the output of journactl is missing from terminal. Does I've to configure something so, journalctl will use pager if output is not fit in terminal?
1665 [16:11:07] <jmcnaught> finn0: journalctl using a pager is default behaviour
1666 [16:11:13] <greycat> finn0: can you give a *specific* example?
1667 [16:11:36] <greycat> Ideally a way one of us can try to reproduce whatever issue you're attempting to "fix".
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1681 [16:16:14] <finn0> greycat, jmcnaught: My bad, journalctl use a pager by default. But I'm doing is press cltr+end to end of the journal and then press cltr+C to abort interrupt which finally print all data to the terminal.
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1685 [16:17:08] <greycat> It uses less for me, and I usually use Shift-G to jump to the end of the input in less (same as vi, which is what less's key bindings come from).
1686 [16:17:10] <finn0> greycat: Are you asking to me? to tell an issue which I'm trying to fix.
1687 [16:17:31] <jmcnaught> journalctl -e goes to the end of the journal in the pager
1688 [16:17:45] <greycat> Ctrl-End does nothing for me in urxvt.
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1690 [16:18:39] <finn0> greycat , jmcnaught : thanks for the suggestion.
1691 [16:18:40] <greycat> the man page says -e implies -n1000 which might or might not be a problem
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1698 [16:20:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1541
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1711 [16:26:47] <finn0> How can I check a information about an issue on bugs.debain.org? whether it is closed or open?
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1713 [16:27:08] <greycat> the top of the bug's page should say
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1716 [16:27:38] <f8e3> is dd tied to the hardware, eg hdd ssd back and forth?
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1720 [16:28:56] <ksk> f8e3: mhhm? dd is a low-level-utilty for copying stuff.
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1722 [16:29:50] <f8e3> hw is even more ll, so its only about bytes? i dd os from dev1 to dev2 no matter the pysical hw
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1724 [16:29:53] <ksk> not sure if dd'ing a HDD to a SSD is a good Idea, might be the default filesystem options (should) differ for SSD.
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1726 [16:30:39] <ksk> if you do not need a bit-wise copy, I suggest creating a filesystem on the SSD and using rsync to copy over stuff.
1727 [16:31:32] <f8e3> ok, i though ill get a portable usb3 debian on hdd by dd.
1728 [16:31:43] <f8e3> mmh will go the dd of=file way then
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1730 [16:32:33] <f8e3> is it ok: dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb conv=sync,notrunc ?
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1732 [16:32:55] <f8e3> sry: is it ok: dd if=/dev/sda of=/myfiledir conv=sync,notrunc ?
1733 [16:33:24] <ksk> This will most likely not do what you want it to do (Or I am wrong, that happens from time to time..)
1734 [16:33:47] <ksk> I can only suggest you read what I alredy wrote..
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1738 [16:36:14] <f8e3> mmh, maybe rsync ill look into man
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1740 [16:37:14] <f8e3> !next :D
1741 [16:37:21] <f8e3> mmh
1742 [16:37:24] <f8e3> !next
1743 [16:37:24] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1745 [16:39:00] <rocketmagnet> f8e3: sdd or hdd does not matter - he creates an .iso file with the complete filesystem and all partition
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1747 [16:39:50] <rocketmagnet> i allways create a complete .iso of my sdd and use boot from a live-cd and use dd to copy it to the sdd (the .iso file created)
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1749 [16:40:11] <rocketmagnet> fastest install possible
1750 [16:40:20] <rocketmagnet> all updates and settings stay the same
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1754 [16:41:37] <jmcnaught> For most people .iso is an ISO9660 filesystem meant to be written to a CD-ROM or DVD. To be less confusing I would use the extension .img or .raw
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1777 [16:59:15] <Marbug> Anyone already used thunderbold as a docking station to get multiple screens/keyboard/muse attached to the laptop ?
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1785 [17:03:31] <sipos_> Hi, I am trying to verify replaced-url
1786 [17:03:31] <sipos_> ch/Release.gpg, but it isn't signed with a key I recognise. replaced-url
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1812 [17:18:44] <themill> sipos_: that release file is signed by the wheezy, jessie and stretch keys
1813 [17:19:40] <themill> sipos_: replaced-url
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1829 [17:28:06] <sipos_> themill, Thanks, but replaced-url
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1831 [17:30:05] <DammitJim> how do I find out what program is setting up my networking?
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1833 [17:30:35] <DammitJim> I thought I was doing it through wicd, but apparently something else is making the connections (and wicd doesn't even know it)
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1835 [17:30:40] <BCMM> what's a decent strategy for keeping a headless debian server updated? unattended-upgrades, and trust that Stable won't do anything dramatic? or should i get it to email me when updated packages are available so i can do it manually? or something else?
1836 [17:30:43] <petn-randall> DammitJim: It's either ifupdown, network-manager, or wicd, I guess.
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1838 [17:30:57] <petn-randall> There might be others, but they're usual quite esoteric.
1839 [17:31:16] <jhutchins_wk1> DammitJim: Unless you've rebuilt the defaults, network-manager
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1841 [17:31:20] <DammitJim> oh ok, I see I have network-manager installed
1842 [17:31:29] <BCMM> (this is just a home backup/media server, so it's not like a business is going to shut down if it has to be offline for a few hours to fix something)
1843 [17:31:32] <DammitJim> is network-manager the default debian package?
1844 [17:31:35] <DammitJim> for buster
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1846 [17:32:28] <greycat> I've never heard (yet?) that anyone has changed the Standard set of packages in the buster installer to include network-manager.
1847 [17:32:46] <DammitJim> ty greatgatsby_
1848 [17:32:48] <DammitJim> greycat,
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1850 [17:32:55] <greycat> And it's showing with priority optional.
1851 [17:33:01] <jhutchins_wk1> greycat: Well it's certainly not wicd by default.
1852 [17:33:04] <BCMM> DammitJim: what do you mean by "the default", though?
1853 [17:33:17] <jhutchins_wk1> greycat: I think that NM gets installed if you request a GUI.
1854 [17:33:21] <BCMM> i think it's pulled in by most -desktop tasks
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1858 [17:33:28] <greycat> That's what I'm trying to get to... people throw around shitty phrases like "default" and it is SO MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than that.
1859 [17:33:32] <DammitJim> what manages an ethernet connection to get an IP address on a default buster install
1860 [17:33:39] <BCMM> but not by the "standard" task
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1863 [17:33:46] <DammitJim> it is complicated... we are getting there
1864 [17:33:57] <greycat> In a DEFAULT INSTALL which has NO DESKTOP ENVIRONMENT it is /etc/network/interfaces just like always, unless someone changed it withoutg telling me.
1865 [17:34:04] <BCMM> DammitJim: the installer asks questions. there isn't really a "default" install
1866 [17:34:09] <DammitJim> alright... let's see if I don't bork my system. I'm going to remove network-manager (not sure how it got installed... maybe when I was asleep the other night)
1867 [17:34:31] <greycat> If you install a DESKTOP ENVIRONMENT then you probably get N-M but you are no longer doing what *I* *PERSONALLY* would call a "default" install.
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1870 [17:34:50] <DammitJim> thanks guys!
1871 [17:35:17] <jmcnaught> except that the debian desktop task is selected by default in the installer
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1873 [17:35:23] <jhutchins_wk1> !interfaces
1874 [17:35:23] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
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1876 [17:35:57] <greycat> That factoid is only showing part of the picture.
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1878 [17:37:02] <greycat> If for some utterly batshit insane reason you have enabled systemd-networkd then that may do something. Otherwise, if you list an interface in /e/n/i, that defines it. Otherwise, if an interface is NOT listed in /e/n/i but you have installed N-M, then N-M defines it.
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1881 [17:37:32] <greycat> I have no idea how wireless works.
1882 [17:37:58] <BCMM> greycat: you can do wireless in the interfaces file these days
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1884 [17:38:20] <greycat> I mean in terms of other things that may or may not do something. Like this "wicd" that was mentioned.
1885 [17:38:38] <BCMM> (iirc you can even put the psk in the interfaces file and not even have to touch wpa_supplicant yourself)
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1890 [17:40:06] <BCMM> talking of tasks, is there a relatively clean way to install a task, excluding a few packages i don't want?
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1893 [17:40:55] <BCMM> in my case, i use kde and would like to install everything in task-kde-desktop except kdeaccessibility and plasma-nm
1894 [17:41:30] <BCMM> apt has a way to say "if anything deps on this package, just pretend it's already installed", right?
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1897 [17:41:48] <themill> not really, other than to do fake things with equivs
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1899 [17:42:30] <themill> you *might* be able to fool aptitude into doing it with something like "aptitude install task-kde-desktop kdeaccessibility- "
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1901 [17:43:23] <BCMM> themill: to check my understanding: equivs creates a package that that claims to provide whatever you want it to claim to provide?
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1903 [17:44:26] <themill> yes
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1905 [17:45:06] <BCMM> hmm, that doesn't actually seem like an awful approach here
1906 [17:45:30] <themill> (on the understanding that when it breaks, you keep the bits; not that dangerous here though)
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1908 [17:46:18] <BCMM> yeah, i know it's a bit nonstandard. but i don't think anything else is going to depend on plasma's networkmanager integration thing
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1910 [17:46:44] <BCMM> and it's not there because anything strictly needs it, it's just there because the task wants to provide a gui for network stuff
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1916 [17:51:32] <HelloShitty> Hello peeps
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1918 [17:52:15] <HelloShitty> When we are said that a file system is missing, that that means we need a new partition or that some existing aprtition needs to be formatted first?
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1921 [17:52:58] <humpled> a file system goes in a partition
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1930 [17:54:24] <pulcherior> debian is cool
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1950 [17:57:53] <HelloShitty> humpled: so when I use fdisk and select option g (for GPT label)
1951 [17:57:58] <HelloShitty> what am I creating?
1952 [17:58:12] <humpled> !
1953 [17:58:16] <greycat> A disklabel is basically the same as a partition table.
1954 [17:58:17] <HelloShitty> and what is the difference if I choose option 'n' in the first place?
1955 [17:58:32] <HelloShitty> 'n' is for new partition
1956 [17:58:38] <humpled> haven't caught up with gpt yet
1957 [17:58:43] <greycat> Basically your disks can have either msdos disklabels, or gpt disklabels.
1958 [17:59:05] <HelloShitty> So, even is I use GPT, I always need to create a partition, right?
1959 [17:59:30] <HelloShitty> s/is/if
1960 [17:59:37] <HelloShitty> So, even if I use GPT, I always need to create a partition, right?
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1969 [18:00:39] <stressedoutcat> not really "even if", but rather "I use GPT, so I intend to set up partitions"
1970 [18:01:01] <stressedoutcat> you could also write a filesystem directly onto the disk, without any partitions (but some environments may not like that)
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1976 [18:01:43] <greycat> Only do that if you want the ENTIRE disk to be that one file system, and then you cannot boot from that disk or anything else.
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1982 [18:01:57] <HelloShitty> yeah, no worries
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1984 [18:02:05] <HelloShitty> I'm doing this in a dummy file
1985 [18:02:17] <greycat> Most people should be using partitions on their disks.
1986 [18:02:28] <stressedoutcat> I would still suggest creating partitions, though - just to avoid "wth" situations
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1992 [18:02:52] <HelloShitty> I want to create a sparse file to act as a volume so that I can encrypt is and mount it whenever I need to access to its contents
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2075 [18:03:19] <stressedoutcat> ah, in that case... there's no need for partitions IMHO
2076 [18:03:20] <HelloShitty> So I have created this test.img file with dd
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2079 [18:03:50] <HelloShitty> and I tried to format it wih LUKS and add it a secret-key file
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2081 [18:04:13] <HelloShitty> but then, after openning the evice with luksOpen e couldn't mount it in some other folder to access it
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2084 [18:04:29] <greycat> I don't know anything about LUKS but a file system in a file, mounted via loopback, generally would not use a disklabel or partitions.
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2086 [18:04:41] <HelloShitty> it said something like the file having bad blocks or sector 0 or something like that
2087 [18:05:02] <HelloShitty> I'm not using loopback with LUKS
2088 [18:05:10] <HelloShitty> I used with tcplay before
2089 [18:05:20] <HelloShitty> but now I wanted to use LUKS instead of tcplay
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2095 [18:05:43] <HelloShitty> Why is this endless INFO thing showing up in the channel
2096 [18:05:44] <HelloShitty> ??
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2100 [18:05:56] <HelloShitty> Our messages go away in a blink of an eye
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2103 [18:06:14] <greycat> I don't know what you're seeing. It could be your client's reaction to the netsplit.
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2105 [18:06:22] <lope> how can I prevent debian from advertising the kernel version etc after ssh login?
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2107 [18:06:37] <HelloShitty> 7:05 |-INFO > Brainium [~brainium@unaffiliated/brainium] has joined #debian
2108 [18:06:50] <HelloShitty> this is constantly showing in my client (irssi)
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2113 [18:07:00] <vlt> Hello. I need an installed Debian instance at a customer. I usually install it just by debootstrapping but now their IT guy uses "VMware 6.0" and sent me the following error: replaced-url
2114 [18:07:44] <lope> I've already got "PrintMotd no; PrintLastLog no; Banner none" where ; is a newline.
2115 [18:07:53] <jmcnaught> vlt: which part failed? Did they try it again?
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2118 [18:08:19] <greycat> lope: I believe you're looking for the pam_motd.so lines in /etc/pam.d/sshd
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2122 [18:08:42] <lope> greycat, but I've got PrintMotd no ?
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2126 [18:09:09] <greycat> lope: PAM has its *own* motd stuff totally different and separate from ssh's
2127 [18:09:24] <lope> greycat, aaah, I seeeee. Thanks
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2149 [18:11:24] <lope> how can I modify /etc/pam.d/sshd to squash the kernel info being printed upon login for a specific user?
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2160 [18:14:04] <bs0d> Hi all. Added an apt repository and see a message that the repository doesn't have a Release file and is disabled by default. What do I need to do to use it?
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2164 [18:16:46] <themill> The correct URL for the repo, most likely. (few details in the question means few details in any answer)
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2167 [18:17:46] <bs0d> the url is correct. I found that adding deb [trusted=yes] may help, but in my case I get another error message "GPG error the following signatures are invalid"
2168 [18:19:40] <bs0d> will try with --allow-unauthenticated
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2170 [18:20:21] <themill> Real commands and real output are likely to be useful.
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2174 [18:22:23] <vlt> jmcnaught: Unfortunately I don't know. They only sent me the screenshot I linked (and treid to translate).
2175 [18:23:05] <vlt> jmcnaught: I have never used the graphical installer, so have no idea if what they're seeing there is from Debian or some VMware window.
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2183 [18:26:40] <jmcnaught> vlt: the graphical installer asks the exact same questions as the text-mode installer. That thumbnail you posted looks like a message from the debian installer, but I can't read it. Tell your colleague to try that step again and if it fails to provide more information.
2184 [18:27:26] <vlt> jmcnaught: Thank you, I'll do that.
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2188 [18:31:16] <jelly-home> !basic apt troubleshooting
2189 [18:31:16] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2190 [18:31:17] <jelly-home> dpkg: ping
2191 [18:31:19] <jelly-home> dselect, basic apt troubleshooting
2192 [18:31:20] <dselect> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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2198 [18:32:55] <annadane> i saw dpkg post that, though?
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2201 [18:38:20] <gedia> hello all, i'm in the process of setting up a private repo using rerepro, but what I don't understand is, is there a way of having packages signed by more than one user in it? what's the usual practice here if there are more than one maintainers for packages served by a repo?
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2217 [18:56:34] <AlexPortable> W: Failed to fetch replaced-url
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2219 [18:56:55] <jmcnaught> !jessie-updates
2220 [18:56:55] <dpkg> jessie-updates was a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from jessie-updates were included in point releases. replaced-url
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2222 [18:57:05] <jmcnaught> AlexPortable: ^^ it doesn't exist anymore
2223 [18:57:17] <jmcnaught> might be a good time to upgrade to stretch, if you can
2224 [18:57:23] <AlexPortable> that's what im trying to do
2225 [18:57:51] <AlexPortable> i want to upgrade to debian 10, but can't reinstall
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2227 [18:58:11] <AlexPortable> is there something similar that lets me do a reinstall on the os itself?
2228 [18:59:00] <greycat> If you're on jessie now, you just need to upgrade to stretch first, and then to buster.
2229 [18:59:06] <AlexPortable> how do i do that?
2230 [18:59:19] <greycat> dpkg, jessie->stretch
2231 [18:59:19] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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2270 [19:15:05] <vivo> Hey, i was trying to do a check disk with gnome-disk on my external drive. But when i bring up the drive, smart tests arent available.
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2282 [19:18:54] <AlexPortable> ssh timed out during dist-upgrade. how do i continue the session now?
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2285 [19:19:20] <greycat> If you ran it inside tmux or screen, which is THE recommendation for remote upgrades, you just reattach to that tmux or screen session.
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2313 [19:32:26] <hamersaw> with the most recent update of vim (vim-common, etc) my syntax highlighting isn't working anymore. is anyone else experiencing this?
2314 [19:32:33] <hamersaw> running stretch
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2396 [20:18:01] <factor> Does Debian have any plans to remove 32bit libs like Ubuntu.
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2399 [20:18:26] <greycat> no
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2401 [20:18:51] <factor> that would be good, since I have 32bit games still.
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2404 [20:19:31] <greycat> Oh gods, I just realized. This means we're going to get an influx of disgruntled ex-Ubuntu users in here.
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2406 [20:19:45] <factor> heh
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2408 [20:19:54] <factor> Maybe.
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2419 [20:24:23] <jhutchins_wk> ... with old machines. That'll be fun.
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2426 [20:27:54] <themill> Perfect combination of "I want the newest shiniest" and "I want an arch that was obsolete two decades ago"
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2428 [20:28:29] <greycat> One group with old machines, one group running proprietary software that's only available in i386 binaries.
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2430 [20:31:23] <annadane> they can learn to run NetBSD instead :P
2431 [20:31:29] <annadane> leave debian alone!
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2435 [20:33:39] <annadane> geez, the netbsd iso is over 3x the size of a debian netinstall
2436 [20:34:16] <greycat> The netinstall is intentionally minimal and expects you to have an Internet connection to get the rest of the Standard packages.
2437 [20:34:43] <greycat> Well, maybe not Standard precisely, but it expects you to download *some* stuff during install.
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2440 [20:35:27] <themill> I think the "old machine" set is likely to be ∅, really.
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2445 [20:36:02] <greycat> among the Ubuntus, you're probably correct
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2449 [20:43:16] <jhutchins_wk> They probably just won't upgrade.
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2462 [20:52:56] <gfp76> I missed the beginning, what ?
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2466 [20:56:16] <annadane> we were talking about disgruntled ubuntu users switching to debian because ubuntu is dropping i386 and i jokingly said "use netbsd (which has support for all kinds of architectures), leave debian alone"
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2475 [21:01:56] <EdePopede> couldn't they fork ubuntu?
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2477 [21:02:16] <Habbie> they could
2478 [21:02:18] <Habbie> but they really shouldn't
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2504 [21:26:27] <f8e3> i have so many questions on pdftk, where do i ask this more debian software like things?
2505 [21:26:38] <f8e3> (rather than os tiself)
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2507 [21:28:25] <petn-randall> greycat: Less than 1% of all Ubuntu users have i386 installed.
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2510 [21:30:34] <Kenzie98> I am super horny & already wet. Join & watch my Live and let's have fun together. The fun is guaranteed!! Link ---> replaced-url
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2513 [21:32:58] <f8e3> Kenzie98 can you maybe help me get things going?
2514 [21:34:58] <Habbie> she left
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2518 [21:42:16] <f8e3> these earthlings tztz
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2521 [21:43:29] <horribleprogram> f8e3: I'm seriously convinced that aliens have given us electronic technology
2522 [21:43:59] <horribleprogram> f8e3: how did we go from 8086 to i9-9900k so fast
2523 [21:44:10] <f8e3> how about: does pdftk help against malware? if i burst and merge again, the JS or whats init shouldbe gone right?
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2534 [21:49:17] <horribleprogram> You can't tar -t a .deb?
2535 [21:49:28] <greycat> a .deb is an ar(1) archive
2536 [21:49:43] <horribleprogram> greycat: interesting
2537 [21:49:46] <horribleprogram> What's the difference?
2538 [21:49:50] <greycat> because clearly involving two separate archiver programs was the Best Decision
2539 [21:49:50] <Habbie> and one of the contents of that archive is a (xzipped) tar i think
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2541 [21:49:59] <greycat> Habbie: correct
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2543 [21:50:04] <Habbie> horribleprogram, it's like .zip vs .rar - just different technologies
2544 [21:50:12] <Habbie> horribleprogram, but specifically ar allows adding and removing files later
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2546 [21:50:22] <Habbie> horribleprogram, not that it matters one bit in this case, but it's a core difference between ar and tar
2547 [21:50:24] <horribleprogram> No I think ar just puts files together
2548 [21:50:24] <jhutchins_wk> ar and tar are WAY pre-debian.
2549 [21:50:39] <Habbie> jhutchins_wk, yes, but the choice of using both here is a debian choice
2550 [21:50:43] <horribleprogram> tar saves more metadata, I'm pretty sure
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2552 [21:50:55] <Habbie> oh yes
2553 [21:51:03] <jhutchins_wk> Habbie: I think you'll find them in just about every distro.
2554 [21:51:19] <horribleprogram> apparently ar isn't part of the LSB anymore
2555 [21:51:25] <Habbie> jhutchins_wk, i don't think i'll find 'packages are ar archives containing a few things and a tar' in just about every distro
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2557 [21:52:53] <jhutchins_wk> Habbie: Rpms are cpio format, compressed with gzip - so there's another archaic archiver.
2558 [21:52:59] <Habbie> oh yes
2559 [21:53:11] <Habbie> i am aware :)
2560 [21:53:21] <horribleprogram> there's a huge difference between compression and archiving
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2563 [21:53:47] <Habbie> jhutchins_wk, plus a header, don't forget that :>
2564 [21:53:49] <greycat> initrd's are cpio as well
2565 [21:54:09] <Habbie> yes
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2567 [21:56:02] <EdePopede> don't also both programs have commands to work with the tape or was there something extra?
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2572 [21:57:34] <Habbie> tar is the 'tape archive'
2573 [21:57:42] <Habbie> i have no clue about any relation between cpio and tapes
2574 [21:57:57] <Habbie> The software utility was originally intended as a tape archiving program as part of the Programmer's Workbench (PWB/UNIX), and has been a component of virtually every Unix operating system released thereafter.
2575 [21:58:01] <Habbie> ok
2576 [21:58:13] <Habbie> huh, apple pax is cpio too
2577 [21:58:25] <greycat> pax is POSIX's reconciliation of tar & cpio
2578 [21:58:32] <Habbie> oh yes
2579 [21:58:34] <Habbie> i remember that from freebsd
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2581 [21:58:43] <Habbie> meanwhile my debian does not have pax
2582 [21:58:46] *** Quits: overbythere (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2583 [21:58:55] <Habbie> (but i can install it)
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2585 [21:59:16] <greycat> That's one of the small ways Debian is not a strict POSIX operating system by default.
2586 [21:59:41] <Habbie> bash as the default shell doesn't help either
2587 [21:59:43] <greycat> ed(1) missing from Standard is another
2588 [21:59:50] <Habbie> i indeed also do not have ed installed
2589 [21:59:56] <greycat> Doesn't matter what the default end-user shell is.
2590 [22:00:11] <Habbie> wait, you're right
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2592 [22:00:21] <Habbie> the problem was /bin/sh pointing to bash many releases ago
2593 [22:00:25] <Habbie> that actually broke things
2594 [22:00:42] <greycat> dash isn't 100% pure POSIX either. That isn't its goal.
2595 [22:00:46] <greycat> It's closer.
2596 [22:00:51] <Habbie> at least UID is not readonly in it
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2600 [22:02:10] <horribleprogram> Anyways, last compression/archiving question: A .tar.gz is a .tar archive that has been compressed with gzip after the fact?
2601 [22:02:22] <EdePopede> yep
2602 [22:02:31] <EdePopede> or .tgz
2603 [22:02:35] <horribleprogram> kk
2604 [22:02:59] <greycat> At least, that's what it's *supposed* to be. But you can name any file foo.tar.gz.
2605 [22:03:52] <finn0> I'm getting this "debian gdm3: gdm_session_set_environment_variable: assertion 'value != NULL' failed" message in syslog and wondering what is this "gdm_session_set_evironment_variable"? Can print its value?
2606 [22:04:10] <greycat> It's a function inside the program.
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2608 [22:04:29] <horribleprogram> finn0: google that
2609 [22:04:33] <horribleprogram> the error message anyways
2610 [22:05:18] <greycat> In short, it means there's a bug in the program, but it caught itself before executing something that would have crashed it.
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2612 [22:06:14] <jhutchins_wk> horribleprogram: Extensions aren't so much a thing in *nix, you can create a tar.gz file using just tar.
2613 [22:06:14] <finn0> greycat: thanks
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2615 [22:06:38] <horribleprogram> jhutchins_wk: well, tar would compress it itself
2616 [22:06:59] <horribleprogram> jhutchins_wk: greycat was referring to the fact that you can name a file anything, so expect a .deb file that's just a text file and stuff
2617 [22:07:06] <greycat> GNU tar has the ability to execute a pipeline to gzip (the -z option) instead of you needing to do it yourself.
2618 [22:07:12] <horribleprogram> ^
2619 [22:07:13] <jhutchins_wk> You can also use tar to create anyfile.exe
2620 [22:07:21] <horribleprogram> jhutchins_wk: no you can't
2621 [22:07:27] <Habbie> yes you can
2622 [22:07:31] <Habbie> but it would still be a tar file
2623 [22:07:32] <Habbie> just named .exe
2624 [22:07:36] <horribleprogram> yes
2625 [22:07:42] <greycat> In traditional Unix, to make a .tar.gz compressed archive, you would use something like tar cf - foo | gzip > foo.tar.gz
2626 [22:08:10] <horribleprogram> greycat: how you specify to use gzip or xz or bzip2?
2627 [22:08:15] <horribleprogram> with the tar command
2628 [22:08:16] <greycat> man tar
2629 [22:08:20] <horribleprogram> :'(
2630 [22:08:36] <EdePopede> README.deb could be either ;)
2631 [22:08:38] <Habbie> horribleprogram, -z, -J, -j
2632 [22:08:38] <greycat> if man pages make you sad, info tar
2633 [22:08:50] <Habbie> i use man pages because info makes me sad
2634 [22:09:40] <EdePopede> one of the nice things in newer tar is that it automaticalle handles the decompression method
2635 [22:09:56] <EdePopede> Habbie: if it's about the program, try pinfo
2636 [22:10:00] <greycat> allowing users to be dumber and dumber...
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2638 [22:10:12] <Habbie> greycat, not all automation is bad
2639 [22:10:18] <ross`> Can someone help me? X decided to stop working, but I don't think there is a hardware issue. X was working on this computer just fine yesterday. I am getting Fatal server error: (EE) Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs for all framebuffer devices.
2640 [22:10:22] <jhutchins_wk> EdePopede: ...which is a feature newer than my tar knowledge
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2642 [22:10:36] <Habbie> greycat, why should i have to remember to use z, J, or j based on the extension? that's a static given, that's what computers are for
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2644 [22:10:57] <ross`> I have a Nvidia RTX 2070
2645 [22:11:05] <horribleprogram> ross`: no one cares
2646 [22:11:11] <jhutchins_wk> ross`: What release? Which kernel.
2647 [22:11:14] <Habbie> EdePopede, oh that's not too bad
2648 [22:11:15] <ross`> horribleprogram: .....?
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2650 [22:11:27] <greycat> horribleprogram: be polite or be quiet
2651 [22:11:28] <horribleprogram> ross`: I'm just jealous sorry :P
2652 [22:11:34] <horribleprogram> sorry :'(
2653 [22:11:51] <ross`> horribleprogram: oh, I was giving that information specifically with relevent information on X not working hehe
2654 [22:12:01] <ross`> horribleprogram: I'm not just item dropping
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2656 [22:12:08] <horribleprogram> lol :P
2657 [22:12:26] <horribleprogram> ikik
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2659 [22:13:05] <ross`> 4.19.0-5 / 4.19.37-4
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2661 [22:13:40] <ross`> unstable
2662 [22:14:13] <EdePopede> horribleprogram: i have a GT630, if that makes you feel better ;)
2663 [22:14:34] <jhutchins_wk> ross`: Sounds like a problem with the fb module, probably best to ask in
2664 [22:14:38] <jhutchins_wk> !debian-next
2665 [22:14:38] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2666 [22:14:53] <jhutchins_wk> ross`: Can you boot to the previous kernel?
2667 [22:15:03] <ross`> jhutchins_wk: probably, let me try!
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2670 [22:16:43] <ross`> There were 2 alternative kernels in grub, and all of them have the same issue
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2682 [22:21:15] <horribleprogram> oh I see what you mean now
2683 [22:21:40] <horribleprogram> greycat: you could be like tar -cjvf archive.tar.gz foo
2684 [22:21:56] <horribleprogram> it'll be compressed with bzip2 but will end up with the filename extension .tar.gz
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2687 [22:22:35] <greycat> horribleprogram: yes, I'm aware of how to do it in both GNU tar and Unix tar. I figured MOST people here already knew how to do it in GNU tar. So I didn't bother stating that part.
2688 [22:23:22] <greycat> And if people give their files the wrong extensions and confuse themselves, that's not my fault. People should stop doing that.
2689 [22:23:36] <horribleprogram> wait how you know what tar you're using
2690 [22:23:52] <horribleprogram> tar --version gives me tar (GNU tar) 1.30
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2694 [22:24:59] <horribleprogram> greycat: and yes I understand that, the point is maybe tar should except a --file=archive and then make the extension itself so it's always right
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2697 [22:25:38] <greycat> maybe it should analyze all of the file and directory names you give it and choose the entire filename for you
2698 [22:25:46] <greycat> and make your bed
2699 [22:25:53] <greycat> and water your tulips
2700 [22:26:04] <horribleprogram> yes I'd like that very much
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2710 [22:34:07] <horribleprogram> is Git down for anyone?
2711 [22:34:30] <Habbie> git is a piece of software
2712 [22:34:32] <Habbie> what service do you mean?
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2714 [22:34:35] <themill> git --version → git version 2.20.1. Nope seems to work here.
2715 [22:34:49] <horribleprogram> y'all know what I meant
2716 [22:34:49] <Habbie> themill, and i thought i was maybe being too snarky
2717 [22:35:06] <Habbie> horribleprogram, i can assume you mean github, but i've too often been wrong in such assumptions
2718 [22:35:09] <Habbie> horribleprogram, so no, i don't
2719 [22:35:40] <Habbie> also github looks up from here
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2723 [22:38:03] <ross`> Is there an easy way to rollback all dpkg updates from an apt upgrade
2724 [22:38:26] <ross`> I want to rollback to before yesterday when my kernel got updated and see if that fixes the problem
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2726 [22:38:41] <Habbie> i don't know if there is an easy way
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2728 [22:38:46] <greycat> if you only want to downgrade ONE package (a kernel), that's fairly straightforward
2729 [22:38:46] <Habbie> but /var/log/dpkg.log will tell you what changed
2730 [22:39:00] <greycat> !snapshot
2731 [22:39:00] <dpkg> replaced-url
2732 [22:39:13] <greycat> retrieve the .deb from there, and install it
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2749 [22:49:36] <ross`> Ugh well I reverted to the previous kernel by uninstallign the latest kernel package and that didn't fix the problem
2750 [22:50:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1485
2751 [22:50:07] <dvs> ross`, you dont have to uninstall the latest kernel to get the second latest kernel
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2756 [22:51:48] <ross`> dvs: I know that
2757 [22:51:59] <greycat> you do if they're both Debian packages of the same kernel ABI
2758 [22:52:01] <ross`> but selecting the previous version in grub didn't fix the problem
2759 [22:52:15] <horribleprogram> greycat: explain that
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2761 [22:52:24] <greycat> but in this case it sounds like ross` is simply running an older kernel ABI-version-thing entirely
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2763 [22:53:01] <ross`> I can't get video to work no matter what I do. Had no issues before it updated my kernel yesterday.
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2765 [22:53:16] <ross`> It updated other packages as well, but I don't think any of them would have caused this issue
2766 [22:54:10] <ross`> I was able to get it to Xorg -configure without crashing and I put that xorg.conf in /etc/X11/
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2768 [22:54:16] <ross`> but now I get a no screens found issue
2769 [22:54:39] <greycat> horribleprogram: for example, kernel package linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64 version 4.19.37-2 overwrites version 4.19.37-1 and they cannot coexist
2770 [22:54:53] <greycat> horribleprogram: but either one can coexist with a linux-image-4.19.0-4-amd64
2771 [22:55:27] <ross`> Yeah, and there is no way I can revert to an entire 4.19.37 version?
2772 [22:55:40] <greycat> Download it from !snapshot and install it.
2773 [22:56:46] <greycat> ross`: you said you were on nvidia? Did you have to build a driver? If you installed a new kernel ABI package, did you ALSO install the new corresponding headers so it can rebuild the driver for the new kernel ABI?
2774 [22:57:10] <ross`> I did not try uninstalling the headers
2775 [22:57:15] <ross`> maybe if I do that it will roll back
2776 [22:57:21] <ross`> would I then have to re install the driver after?
2777 [22:57:33] <horribleprogram> greycat: that has everything to do with the filename....
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2783 [22:59:51] <ross`> K, I uninstalled the headers
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2785 [23:00:41] <greycat> I never said to remove anything, for the record.
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2789 [23:01:30] <ross`> q
2790 [23:01:32] <ross`> oops
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2792 [23:02:14] <ross`> So is it possible with snapshots to set the versions of all of my packages to a debian version rather than 1 package at a time? I took a look at the link you sent but I'm not understanding what I should do
2793 [23:02:53] <ross`> Also, does that snapshot repo include unstable
2794 [23:03:11] <greycat> ...
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2800 [23:06:21] <ross`> I commented out my default debian deb
2801 [23:06:35] <ross`> and I addded this line and updated and upgraded
2802 [23:06:43] <ross`> but it said there were 0 packages to be updated
2803 [23:06:56] <ross`> deb replaced-url
2804 [23:07:32] <Habbie> you wanted older packages
2805 [23:07:35] <Habbie> upgrade won't give you older packages
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2810 [23:09:37] <ross`> How do I simply set my package versions to those within a snapshot?
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2812 [23:10:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1491
2813 [23:10:01] <ross`> Is there no way to do that without individually removing packages
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2817 [23:11:03] <ross`> Is there a flag for some program that will have it check to see what the latest package version of each one of my installed packages is for my current set of deb repositories and to install that version and uninstall all newer versions?
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2820 [23:11:38] <greycat> ross`: there isn't "a snapshot". There is a web site called snapshot.debian.org that has all of the packages in it, and you can go retrieve old packages from there if you want an old package.
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2822 [23:12:08] <ross`> Okay, so what you are saying is that there is no easy way to fix my problem if I don't know what broke it.
2823 [23:12:35] <ross`> I can't just set my dpkg to compare with a specific repo and to set packages to the versions in that snapshot
2824 [23:12:44] <ross`> I need to uninstall packages one at a time always
2825 [23:13:34] <ross`> Also you mentioned something about rebuilding my video driver with the older headers
2826 [23:13:52] <ross`> how exactly do I do that? would reinstalling the xserver-xorg-video-driver work
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2830 [23:14:46] <greycat> NOBODY said to uninstall ANYTHING.
2831 [23:15:07] <greycat> You can revert to old versions of specific packages one by one.
2832 [23:15:19] <greycat> This involves INSTALLING the old version. Not UNINSTALLING anything.
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2835 [23:16:11] <HelloShitty> Hi
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2837 [23:16:49] <HelloShitty> Can one create a GPT label, then add new partition, then change type of partition to ext4 with fdisk?
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2840 [23:17:35] <HelloShitty> I can't find ext4 type after creating GPT label
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2851 [23:22:38] <ross`> where are boot messages stored?
2852 [23:22:51] <ross`> There are some read [failed] messages when my system boots that disappear before I can read them
2853 [23:22:55] <ross`> red*
2854 [23:23:36] <jmcnaught> ross`: run journalctl
2855 [23:23:39] <ross`> I don't know what to maunally put in my monitor and screen sections to get my xorg.conf working with manual settings.
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2859 [23:25:11] <ross`> Okay, thanks.
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2862 [23:25:45] <ross`> systemd-modules-load[389]: Error running install command for nvidia_drm
2863 [23:25:50] <ross`> systemd-udevd[505]: Error running install command for nvidia
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2865 [23:27:02] <greycat> Are you using an nvidia kernel module that you had to build from dkms stuff? If so, did you INSTALL (not remove!) the linux-headers-$(uname -r) package to allow it to be built for your running kernel?
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2867 [23:27:30] <ross`> I don't think I had to do anything with dkms
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2869 [23:27:39] <ross`> I did install the right linux-headers
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2874 [23:28:36] <ross`> The only other thing that did get updated was glx
2875 [23:28:46] <ross`> Could that cause this kind of issue
2876 [23:30:09] <Habbie> your error does not smell like glx to me, but i'm no expert at all
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2879 [23:31:55] <ross`> I have very common hardware. I wish I just knew the steps of what to do in order to get xorg working in automatic mode again
2880 [23:32:37] <greycat> Since it sounds like you're in unstable, the first thing you do is go to the unstable support channel....
2881 [23:33:07] <ross`> Yes, I tried that.
2882 [23:33:20] *** Quits: thatpythonguy (~john@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2883 [23:34:26] <ross`> But the steps for troubleshooting a driver not loading into a kernel should be the same. Atleast to figure out if it relates to broken unstable stuff or not.
2884 [23:34:33] <ross`> I wish I knew what those steps were.
2885 [23:34:44] <ross`> so that way I could clearly state that my issue is with unstable
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2902 [23:43:39] <jcb2016> what is the name of the menu when you boot and everything scrolls by and says ok in green letters?
2903 [23:43:57] <greycat> POST (power on self test) probably?
2904 [23:44:03] <dvs> dmesg?
2905 [23:44:14] <jcb2016> dmesg dosen't give me the output of what im looking for
2906 [23:44:18] <greycat> If it's before GRUB, it's the firmware/BIOS, and POST is the term often used.
2907 [23:44:21] <dvs> the one where the services are coming up
2908 [23:44:33] <jcb2016> its after grub greycat
2909 [23:44:33] <greycat> If it's AFTER grub, you're probably talking about old stuff (sysvinit boot messages).
2910 [23:44:47] <greycat> systemd doesn't do the green [OK] thing
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2912 [23:45:12] <jcb2016> so im looking for sysvinit boot message?
2913 [23:45:25] <greycat> I don't know what you're looking for. You asked a vague theoretical/historical question.
2914 [23:45:34] <Habbie> the green [ok] stuff is from init
2915 [23:45:37] <Habbie> either sysvinit or systemd
2916 [23:45:38] <vlt> Hello. I want to install the package "texlive-tetex" but not all the "texlive-...-doc" packages that get installed automatically. How do I do this?
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2918 [23:45:54] <jcb2016> it talks about my backlight not working and while im in the os the backlight always dims
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2920 [23:46:08] <greycat> So you're actually talking about your *current* Debian system, not a memory of the past?
2921 [23:46:13] <Habbie> vlt, there is no texlive-tetex - which one did you mean?
2922 [23:46:14] <greycat> And you have an actual problem you're trying to solve?
2923 [23:46:32] <vlt> Habbie: Oh, sorry. It's texlive-xetex.
2924 [23:46:32] <jcb2016> yea current debian system greycat
2925 [23:46:43] <greycat> Which version of Debian is it, and which init system do you use?
2926 [23:46:59] <jcb2016> greycat, debian 9.9 and i don't know what init im using
2927 [23:47:15] <greycat> Well, the default in Debian 9 is systemd, so start with journalctl.
2928 [23:47:18] <jcb2016> i know i boot into X
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2931 [23:47:39] <greycat> The boot messages from the init system should be in journalctl's output, probably.
2932 [23:47:55] <ross`> Yeah he's looking for the same thing that I as looking for.
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2934 [23:48:07] <ross`> Those messages of the kernel booting before you hit a TTY
2935 [23:48:15] <Habbie> vlt, the doc depends appear to be indirect - but they might be 'suggestions' - i suggest finding out how to get a dependency tree that makes the required/suggests/recommended distinction
2936 [23:48:18] <greycat> The *KERNEL* messages are in journalctl -k
2937 [23:48:58] <Habbie> vlt, and/or trying telling apt-get to not install 'suggests' or 'recommends' - i don't have the exact options handy for you
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2939 [23:49:34] <jcb2016> ok thanks all i will look
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2941 [23:49:41] <vlt> Habbie: I was installing it by running `apt install texlive-xetex`. I'll have a look at apt's options. Thank you.
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2944 [23:50:36] <Habbie> vlt, on debian 10 i see --no-install-recommends in the apt-get manpage but not in the apt manpage, btw
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2960 [23:57:19] <somiaj> Habbie: that is standard in stretch too, the apt manpage doesn't list all the options availble, just the ones most users would use.
2961 [23:57:44] <Habbie> somiaj, oh
2962 [23:57:47] <Habbie> somiaj, annoying
2963 [23:57:47] <HelloShitty> Guys, anyone here familiar with LUKS encryption?
2964 [23:57:58] <Habbie> HelloShitty, i've touched it a few times, just ask
2965 [23:58:06] <HelloShitty> Habbie: nice
2966 [23:58:15] <Habbie> HelloShitty, i'm not an expert
2967 [23:58:25] <karlpinc> !tell HelloShitty about ask
2968 [23:58:26] <HelloShitty> I'm trying to encrypt a sparse file I've just created with a key file
2969 [23:58:45] <HelloShitty> but I'm not sure which key file to use here
2970 [23:58:53] <HelloShitty> I have my GPG key file
2971 [23:59:08] <HelloShitty> which is, as expected, composed of a public and a private key pair
2972 [23:59:13] <somiaj> Habbie: well apt is mostly a front end to apt-cache, apt-get, and so no need to dupilicate the whole manpage. (apt is meant to be a more general user focused, advanced users should probably just use apt-get or understand apt is just calling apt-get)
2973 [23:59:35] <HelloShitty> when providing the key file to encrypt this sparse file, should I provide the public key file or the private key file?
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