4[04:18:05] <tjnycum> i'm trying to use OBS to build the stretch-backports version of dh-autoreconf. the build is failing with an error about being "unable to load addon autoreconf: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/autoreconf.pm in @INC" (build log: replaced-url
5[04:18:05] <tjnycum> &suite=stable&arch=any) that file is supposed to be provided by the very package it's building. can anyone help?
28[04:45:43] *** Quits: PewPew (~f@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
29[04:48:36] <jaggz> after upgrade dist-upgrade I have a million packages that haven't been configured (shown in dpkg -C) -- what lets me configure all of them?
30[04:48:43] <jaggz> I'm supposed to configure all of them yeah?
31[04:49:04] <jaggz> it says to use dpkg --configure or the configure menu option in dselect
42[05:01:13] <Maxis> Hey all, I've got a little dilemma. When I installed Debian it deemed itself unable to use my built-in wifi card, something about non-free drivers. I've tried going for an old wifi dongle (really ancient, NETGEAR WG111v2) to get around that, and it displays the WiFi networks as it should, but in attempting to connect to any of them it just gives up eventually. I can give more information if anyone would be able to give me a hand
43[05:01:13] <Maxis> here, my google-fu got me nowhere.
46[05:06:37] <victorqueiroz> Now my system doesn't work properly anymore after installing mesa drivers from stretch-backports. Can't log in using GNOME on Xorg and Blender doesn't open anymore
47[05:06:38] <victorqueiroz> Weird!
48[05:07:05] <somiaj> Maxis: most likely you just needed non-free firmawre and your card would have worked just fine.
49[05:07:24] <diogenes_> Maxis, reboot router, try with dongle again.
50[05:07:26] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: I think with your hardware and what you are doing you should just run buster. Stretch is going to just not have current enough software.
51[05:07:27] <victorqueiroz> All the Vulkan examples works just fine on my Lenovo Yoga L380 btw. So apparently it's the AMD GPU open-source drivers that are outdated in Debian stable.
53[05:09:00] <somiaj> are you also running the kernel from backports?
54[05:09:32] <somiaj> Yea as I said initially, there has been lots of development in the whole stack, mesa, libvulkan, even the kernel, and sure this stuff is avaialble in stretch-backports, I would just use buster as it is almost released
55[05:09:33] <victorqueiroz> somiaj: Yes (4.19 and also tried with 5.0 from experimental)
56[05:09:49] <victorqueiroz> somiaj: ok, will try that.
57[05:10:10] <victorqueiroz> Can I download it from here: replaced-url
58[05:10:24] <somiaj> I think there is one, you can also just dist-upgrade your current system to buster
65[05:15:12] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
66[05:17:38] <somiaj> debian is designed to be upgraded from one release to another. This works in most cases (but as always backup as there can be complications).
67[05:17:49] <somiaj> For the most part there wont' be, one should read the release notes for known issues.
74[05:22:37] <tjnycum> has anyone here ever configured a debian repo as DOD repo for an OBS instance?
75[05:24:27] <Maxis> thanks you guys, it seems obvious after you said that somiaj that I should just hook my laptop up through my phone tether and get the non-free firmware, got the internal wifi card up and running now
76[05:24:37] *** Quits: corvo (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
86[05:30:24] <dpkg> sed is a stream editor that can perform text transformations on a file or a pipeline. it is not that easy to learn but it is a very powerful tool once mastered. See replaced-url
92[05:36:03] <Cristine98> I am super horny & wet. Join & watch my Live and let's have fun together. The fun is guaranteed, boys. Link ---> replaced-url
108[05:41:29] *** Quits: leorat (~rat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
109[05:44:39] <jmcnaught> !stable-updates
110[05:44:39] <dpkg> [stretch-updates] a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be included in point releases. replaced-url
111[05:45:10] <jmcnaught> !stretch-backports
112[05:45:10] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See replaced-url
126[05:54:10] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
127[05:54:25] <iwkse> hi, I have a strange behaviour, when I add the $HOME/bin the builtin commands seems to use that path and I get no such file or directory. Commenting the lines in .profile makes it work ok? Any hint?
175[06:32:54] <somiaj> Maxis: for future reffrence debian provides an unoffical non-free installer because of this issue. Debian likes to give users the choice, but will always ensure that the main debian packages are free in terms of the DFSG. As such for those who want (or need) to use non-free software, there is an extra hoop.
176[06:33:33] *** Quits: iflema (~iflema@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
198[06:49:10] <jaggz> says it has a symbol lookup error ... libpango2-1. 0.so.0 undefined symbol hb_variation_from_string
199[06:49:40] <jaggz> blah. libpangoft2-1. 0.so.0
200[06:50:08] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: good, yea stretch is just a bit old for both your hardawre and vulcan on it. Glad the upgrade and everything got you what you needed
202[06:50:29] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: note, you won't have any security support with buster for another few weeks. This should be fine, but just something to be aware of.
203[06:51:01] <somiaj> jaggz: sounds like you have some libaries that aren't matching the build time of vim. Are you positive that everything is fully upgraded to buster?
215[06:59:58] <jaggz> both of those come from buster and are at the latest
216[07:00:04] <somiaj> In this case track down the libary that vim is linking too and make sure it is from the package and the version for buster.
217[07:00:14] <jaggz> vim and l8bo.. ft2
218[07:00:30] <jaggz> (typing on phone)
219[07:01:59] <somiaj> so vim is something you compiled yourself (and not form the debian package)?
220[07:02:15] <jaggz> no. packages.
221[07:02:23] <jaggz> from buster
222[07:02:59] <_CM_> in debian KDE is there a way to change the time on the log in screen from Military time?
223[07:03:15] <jaggz> i reinstalled the pango package too.. in case that library was somehow screwed up (searched to make sure what it came from)
224[07:03:24] <somiaj> _CM_: can you right click on clock and get a settings window?
225[07:03:48] <_CM_> somiaj: its on the sign in screen when you first boot into debian
226[07:04:15] <somiaj> jaggz: could be an old link too, I don't know the linking tools well enough to give you commands to try to tack this down. But you need to figure out exactly which libpango file vim is linking to when it runs.
227[07:04:35] <somiaj> _CM_: ahh, so this won't be KDE, this will be your display manager. I think kde uses ssdm now, look up how to configure that.
228[07:04:55] <_CM_> somiaj: I just looked under startup and I dont see anything to change the clock
229[07:05:28] <somiaj> startup is apps run at startup.
230[07:05:33] <somiaj> You need to configure the display manager
231[07:06:41] <somiaj> from what google is giving me, there is no nice gui for this, you'll have to edit some sddm theme/config files to make this change.
232[07:07:08] <somiaj> hmm, okay looks like it could be your locale
241[07:10:02] <somiaj> jaggz: it is probably not detecting the right kernel and you need to point it at the headers for the actual kernel you are running now.
252[07:12:23] <somiaj> jaggz: if you notice other wierd issues like this and due to the fact your upgrade had various problems. You may find it easier to just backup $HOME (and other data you find pertenant) and reinstall.
253[07:12:40] <somiaj> as opposed to track down all the issues and fix them. Though you can learn a lot, I would start googling around.
254[07:12:44] <jaggz> how do I pick which display driver is used? nouveau package is still installed
255[07:14:19] <somiaj> nouveaus is alyways installed (it is part of the kernel). But the nvidia driver should blacklist it (I really suggest using the debian packages for this) so nvidia is then used isntead.
256[07:14:36] <somiaj> so you need to ensure that 1) the corret module is isntalled, and 2 xorg is using the correct driver.
257[07:15:38] <jaggz> iwlist says my device is in use.. can't scan.. grr
258[07:15:50] <somiaj> for what it is worth, buster has nvidia 418.74, and libcudaart9.2
259[07:16:03] <jaggz> trying to get WiFi running from command line :)
261[07:17:38] <jaggz> if I recall correctly, this was a pain, having to manually edit wpa supplicant stuff.. and it then conflicted with the x11 WiFi manager
262[07:17:58] <jaggz> it used to be easy iirc, with a few lines in etc network interfaces
269[07:21:40] <somiaj> jaggz: anyways, keep a reinstall in mind. If you backup $HOME and maybe /etc (depending on how much system stuff you configure) one can often do a debian install in about an hour vs hunting down all these issues you keep running into.
270[07:23:23] <jaggz> somiaj, I think my system is not so clean..
275[07:26:13] <somiaj> Yea, maybe you have more stuff you have manually done (besides just nvidia.bin) over the years of using it, and this makes upgrades a lot harder and can leave artifacts (this is often why we really suggest only using native debian packages and learning proper ways to deal with non debian stuff)
276[07:28:09] <jaggz> I also set up a lot of local projects and use various unorganized methods of handling that.. and it's in the same drive (partition) as the system stuff
279[07:29:49] <jaggz> since I'm rarely dealing with it, once I got my ssd set up, and a bunch of stuff moved into the mounted hdd mirror.. I dunno. it's a lot that's just not in my mind
283[07:29:56] *** Quits: iflema (~iflema@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
284[07:30:24] <jaggz> and, yeah, it was like 6 or 7 years ago that I set this system up
285[07:30:46] <somiaj> so yea, that is probably the issue, all of this stuff you have done has mixed with your debian system, which really makes upgrades not work, since they are not desigend for this case.
286[07:30:50] <somiaj> !don't break debian
287[07:30:50] <dpkg> dont break debian is probably replaced-url
290[07:31:34] <somiaj> you may want to read over that wiki page, there are a lot of good practices for dealing with non debian stuff. Basic approach is don't put anything in system locaitonts, /usr, /usr/bin, /usr/lib, that doens't come from debian. Local stuff should go in /usr/local, /opt, or $HOME.
291[07:32:10] <somiaj> so maybe a reinstall is best at this point, start out with a clean system, and start adding your local stuff in.
292[07:32:35] <jaggz> I'm trying to install the Debian Nvidia package now and it's hanging in running nvidia-installer --uninstall ...
308[07:45:29] <jaggz> libglx.so from xserver-xorg-core was from 2017. I reinstalled that package and it's now a different size and from Mar 5
309[07:50:18] <jaggz> doing a bunch of reinstalls now.. maybe that'll clean stuff up
310[07:50:26] <somiaj> well libglx.so is from the nvidia.bin you isntalled
311[07:50:41] <somiaj> this is why it is not suggested to use the nivida installer, it overwrites debian files.
312[07:50:51] <jaggz> xs xorg core said it's in it I think
313[07:51:13] <jaggz> dpkg -S on its full path showed that package
314[07:51:13] <dpkg> You Fool! on its full path showed that package is installed!
315[07:51:46] <somiaj> of course that is where debian thinks it is from, but when you run things like nvidia.bin or other stuff that dpkg doesn't know about, things will change and dpkg won't know that.
316[07:52:11] <jaggz> ohh
317[07:52:12] <somiaj> read that don't break debian link. You rpobably have various stuff like this all over your system (which is why vim is having trouble)
318[07:52:28] <somiaj> nvidia.bin dones't tell dpkg it is overwiting files, it just does it.
319[07:53:12] <jaggz> right! some Nvidia sometime might have written that.. although I'd have thought that Debian package would have been freshly installed today, overwriting some 2017 file
320[07:53:46] <jaggz> I can't imagine today's download if the 430 run put a 2017 file in? mebbe
675[08:46:44] <tjnycum> Unit193: tbh, i'm not very familiar with either one. i would think this comparison would show me the changes you've made for debian, but it says there's nothing to compare 😕 replaced-url
688[08:58:47] <tjnycum> Unit193: ah, ok. i take it the ubuntu-specific stuff about app indicators won't interfere on debian? as far as building, i was hoping to ultimately build it on the openSUSE build service anyway. you wouldn't happen to be familiar with that or another similar service, would you?
689[08:58:55] *** Quits: magyar (~magyar@replaced-ip) (Quit: Riding the split)
691[09:00:30] <Unit193> tjnycum: libayatana-appindicator3-dev is for Debian really, so no there's nothing Ubuntu specific at all. I've used Launchpad's build service, but for Debian I just use pbuilder and pop it into my own repo, never used OpenSUSE's service.
692[09:01:21] <jaggz> what the hell. it looks like vim is linked to an alternative and then to vim.gtk
702[09:14:41] <tjnycum> Unit193: launchpad only supports ubuntu-specific debs, right? by your own repo, you mean one you host on a machine of yours following the same general idea as in replaced-url
730[09:20:57] <tjnycum> Unit193: thanks so much for your help. fyi, it seems at least one person has pulled your veracrypt git repo into OBS. replaced-url
753[09:29:14] <bari> is there any change of frequency of new deb pkg in repo? I have noticed that there were hundreds upg of packages every week ~month ago ... but now, there is a few new pkg for upg only. Let say ~60 every week? I am using testing branch.
779[09:34:43] <at0m> Primer: didn't know there was a difference
780[09:34:58] <pie3> i have both use cases tjnycum
781[09:35:23] <Unit193> tjnycum: The diff between his and mine is pretty minimal, biggest change is the upstream repack so you can't verify the tarball against upstream's signing key.
791[09:40:37] <Primer> So as long as I have all the .deb files (presuming linux-image-XXX-lowlatency, headers), I'll just dpkg those and let the scripts do their thing, such as build all the dkms stuff I have and make the initrd
792[09:41:09] <tjnycum> Unit193: i'll try copying his .dsc and debian changes, but take the original tarball directly from veracrypt.fr (updating checksum in .dsc)
805[09:45:31] <Primer> I got pretty much everything working, but I'm still tuning the touchpad. It seems I get the best results from synaptics, which is now discouraged
806[09:45:49] <Primer> But I can't get scroll inertia or proper gestures with libinput
809[09:46:48] <Primer> And I also encrypted the zfs it's on. I still have about 300g of free space on the drive in case I decide to try to hackintosh :)
810[09:46:52] <tjnycum> Unit193: thanks for scoping it out and pointing out a way to do it better
811[09:47:16] <Unit193> Sure, I guess. :)
812[09:47:18] <Primer> Oh, and I got secure boot to actually boot too, but I forgot my root fs is from dkms :/
813[09:47:51] <at0m> =)
814[09:47:57] <Primer> and I wouldn't have had nvidia either. The bios supports custom secure boot rules, but...I don't know if that means I can sign my own modules
829[09:50:34] <Primer> anyhow, does anyone know about synaptics vs. libinput in testing? I'm reading that synaptics is now discouraged for X in favor of libinput
830[09:51:24] <Primer> KDE's settings offers this really nice touchpad tuning UI, but most things are grayed out when using libinput, and available when using synaptics
831[09:51:51] <Primer> Thing is, I'm experiencing this issue where libinput-gestures just stops working with synaptics
871[10:22:08] <rany> Primer, if your touchpad is working don't install synaptics. libinput is usually installed by default on stretch and requires minimal configuration
887[10:36:58] <petn-randall> jaggz: Note that doing an upgrade in two steps ("apt upgrade" then "apt dist-upgrade") poses the risk that you won't have a running system if you reboot between those steps.
888[10:37:40] <petn-randall> jaggz: I usually do it in one step, only `apt dist-upgrade`, though I must admit I haven't checked if that the recommended way in the upgrade guide.
912[10:52:34] <rany> petn-randall, dist-upgrade only remove packages which you will not need in new release. Use it when you change your release but beware of packages removed which you might still want
923[11:03:21] <at0m> i recently learned about aptitude safe-upgrade, "Installed packages will not be removed unless they are unused" while normal upgrades do not remove packages. dist-upgrade however, would, too, iiuc
933[11:11:26] <petn-randall> ayekat: The reason is that you'll have some packages on $release, and some on $release+1. And this configuration has never been tested, and also this mix is not supported by Debian.
936[11:12:07] <petn-randall> ayekat: Yes, ideally all packages would need to define their dependencies perfectly, but that's close to impossible with 60,000 packages.
946[11:16:22] <ayekat> I mean, `apt upgrade` is essentially like a "partial upgrade" (and my main distro, being rolling release, is pretty clear about not supporting those, for the same reasons)
969[11:29:32] <at0m> ayekat: apt upgrade doesn't ever remove packages, unlike apt dist-upgrade (which is a bit a misnomer, IMO) and aptitude safe-upgrade
972[11:30:13] <at0m> this can cause issues when for example mariadb server is named "mariadb-server-$version"
973[11:30:41] <at0m> ..and mariadb-common is marked for upgrade
974[11:31:13] <Han> I have this host with an intel cpu, in /proc/cmdline "l1tf=full mds=full,nosmt", intel-microcode 3.20190514.1~deb9u1, and still I get: "Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT disabled" what am I missing?
985[11:37:28] <tjnycum> Unit193: trying that dpkg-buildpackage step. it errors out at the end while trying to sign the .dsc because it doesn't have your private key (obvs). a few questions stemming from this:
986[11:37:28] <tjnycum> 1) i see under step 11 of the description section of the dpkg-buildpackage man page that there are several no-signature-related options. which do you think is most appropriate? or none? i do have a pgp key i could use to sign it myself. (i'm guessing i'd need to move you to original maintainer and make myself maintainer to get it to try to use my key)
987[11:37:28] <tjnycum> 2) looking at that .dsc, i do want to change it to only require debhelper 10 instead of 11, assuming that wouldn't break anything, so that it can be built and run with only stretch (without backports, because unfortunately OBS doesn't support it). can i just change this .dsc and rerun dpkg-buildpackage and have it keep those changes or will it regenerate the file?
989[11:40:29] <Unit193> I think this is getting past the scope of #debian a bit. With regards to signing, you wouldn't need to change anything for that as you can just `debsign` (or use the right option, or stick DEBSIGN_KEYID= in ~/.devscripts). I don't know the upload procedure for OBS, sorry. Then, you'd want to change debian/control and debian/compat to reduce it to 10.
1005[11:54:22] <CrazyBi7> Hello, I have a problem with the installation of Debian:I installed debian 9 i386 on a old Panel Pc (a touch screen monitor with a computer inside). When the installation was completed, the SO don't start: a cursor blinks for a minutes, then the device will block
1065[12:31:20] <at0m> AnononA: i'm not sure about vera-crypt, but i've seen VM's and such do that. one way to find out: try the hidden volume mounted, then add more content to it.
1171[13:51:33] <nexiu_> Hello. I have install 3g dongle to my pi, its connect and obtain ip and dns, but i cant ping / open websites. SSH throught obtained ip (with wifi on) its work.
1176[13:53:24] <nexiu_> Pi was preconfigured as router to get internet from wifi and share to my pc with ethernet, but now I want route openVPN through mobile connection.
1177[13:54:21] <RoyK> nexiu_: debian or raspbian?
1178[13:55:17] <diogenes_> yeah with my 3g modem you can't ping too, so no ssh works.
1186[13:57:47] <ayekat> diogenes_: sure, it may correlate - but if ICMP echo messages are blocked by the network operator (and thus pinging fails), other stuff (like ssh) may still work
1187[13:58:10] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1195[14:01:33] <ayekat> I'm aware of that - I was just replying to the way they concluded "ping doesn't work, therefore ssh doesn't work"
1196[14:02:16] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1197[14:02:30] <ayekat> as ping may fail for all sorts of reason that have nothing to do with other types of connections (not necessarily just netops blocking icmp)
1200[14:03:37] <RoyK> ayekat: I haven't seen ICMP beeing blocked by ISPs for a decade or so - if they do, they deserve - well - punishment :þ
1201[14:04:10] <RoyK> 10 years in the electric chair or something like that
1202[14:04:38] <ayekat> sure... I'm not talking about ISPs, though
1203[14:06:35] <RoyK> well - still pinging something, wether over TCP or ICMP is a usual way of checking the network. Don't make things too hard. Also, if you have a pi and finds it lacks network connection, you normally have another computer on the same LAN, on which the ISP can't do anything
1204[14:06:42] <RoyK> so cut the crap, please
1205[14:07:04] <oiaohm> RoyK: there are odd issues with routes across the internet where icmp goes missing yet TCP goes through.
1206[14:07:24] <RoyK> oiaohm: on a LAN?
1207[14:07:57] <oiaohm> RoyK: managed switch gone wrong I have seen cause that.
1208[14:08:14] <RoyK> and how many have a manage switch at home?
1209[14:08:21] <RoyK> *managed*
1210[14:08:32] <RoyK> doing L3 switching?
1211[14:08:33] <ayekat> RoyK: they were talking about 3g - but alright, I'll "cut the crap"
1212[14:09:57] <oiaohm> RoyK: yep L3 managed swtich with some bad ram was taking out all icmp packets but was doing tcp and udp perfectly fine.
1214[14:10:47] <oiaohm> RoyK: so its not always the administrator it sometimes a hardware breakage.
1215[14:11:52] <ayekat> oiaohm: or just the target host silently dropping ICMP packets - some people apparently like to configure their machines like that
1221[14:15:10] <oiaohm> RoyK: also I have seen a few ADSL2 routers and other things also screw network up in odd ways like missing ICMP when they are going dead.
1222[14:16:13] <oiaohm> It would be nice if routers died out instantly but they don't. Progressive stacking of bad ram followed by strange behavours.
1226[14:17:40] <oiaohm> RoyK: PS L3 switching is in some of your routers. So its lot more common for there to be a L3 switch of some form in someones house than most people think.
1282[15:02:02] <hans_> is non-free packages patched by debian? or do they require upstream to fix it? (probably the latter given the absense of source code and the complexity of patching binary blobs, but idk)
1283[15:02:11] <hans_> eg for security*
1284[15:02:44] <ksk> hans_: the non-free team will patch them. not the debian (Security) teams
1285[15:03:00] <hans_> the non-free team?
1286[15:03:13] <ksk> and of course will depend on upstream for new releases.
1287[15:03:21] <ksk> the guys building packages for non-free.
1288[15:03:22] <hans_> yeah but for security issues
1303[15:16:06] <Henry151> a long while ago I set something up on my Thinkpad p51 (running debian) that would "listen" for when an HDMI cable was plugged in, and automatically run an xrandr command to turn it on
1304[15:16:42] <Henry151> then somehow, I failed to back the relevant file up, and after doing a system reinstall and restoring all my backed up files, it doesn't do it anymore
1306[15:17:38] <Henry151> I can't recall how I did it, and though I've searched through my IRC logs, I also can't find the discussion where people helped me with it. So I'm back in here to ask again. If anybody can shove me off in the right direction, since I've already done it once I'm sure it'll come back to me quickly.
1307[15:18:02] <ikus060> I have a system that is not able to boot anymore after apt-get upgrade. I suspect the nvidia driver to be the issue. I tried to uninstall or reinstall but apt-get is just refusing the re-install the package complaining about missing dependecies
1308[15:18:33] <Henry151> ikus060: which missing dependencies?
1309[15:19:18] *** Quits: noosanon (~noosanon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1310[15:19:45] <ikus060> Henry151: trying to install, it complain about missing nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd
1348[15:42:23] <ikus060> ouf, manage to get apt-get to install nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd and nvidia-driver, but something is still wonrg, when trying to boot the nvidia_* module are not loaded. according to syslog: Error running install command nvidia_drm,
1349[15:42:34] <ikus060> same for nvidia_modeset, etc.
1350[15:43:06] *** Quits: botayhard_ (~botayhard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1351[15:43:26] <f8e3> can i backup a ssd to hdd by dd if of; and still boot the hdd from the same/other pc?
1416[16:33:34] <cybercrypto> cyborg81: there is a dedicated channel for hexchat. you will probably get help there. Also, check the documentation website as a first step, so you will be acquainted with the app before hand.
1420[16:35:04] *** Quits: t0x_Avgr (~t0x-Avgr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1421[16:35:06] <ikus060> ok, I manage to re-install the nvidia driver properly, all the module are loaded properly, but I have issue since it's an Optimus system. When booting the screen is black.
1424[16:36:00] *** Quits: srukle (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1425[16:36:30] <cybercrypto> ikus060: do you have access to such system? like ssh for instance? What are the log errors are telling you (either X or Wayland)
1430[16:42:22] <cybercrypto> ikus060: I know it may seems trivial, but Debian wiki is one of the most reliable source of documentation available about GNU/Linux. Please take a look at: replaced-url
1431[16:42:44] <ikus060> cybercrypto: I've already configure according to wiki: replaced-url
1432[16:43:03] <ikus060> But it's not working, and yes, I have ssh access to the laptop
1457[17:04:16] <rant> a piece of advice to you, is to use paste.debian.net or termbin.com in the future..
1458[17:04:24] *** Quits: rabbitear_sdf (~rabbitear@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1459[17:04:59] <rant> termbin works easily with netcat.. i.e. cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999
1460[17:05:31] <rant> I for one, under my current work load am not going to click that link.. that site is terrible, cookies, js, tls, popups, ads, etc..
1498[17:29:54] <ikus060> I've upgrade the nvidia driver to 418.56 to fix my initial issue. During the process it uninstall some package like steam:i386. I'm trying to re-install it, but it contains about libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 that cannot be installted.Look like libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 is not available for 418.56
1513[17:34:08] <ikus060> This backport thing really mess up my upgrade. M'ay I ask what is the good way to upgrade our system, when some packages are installed from backport ?
1514[17:34:44] <themill> upgrade from what to what?
1533[17:44:38] <themill> ikus060: there's nothing special required if you're just upgrading the occasional package based on new packages in backports. "apt upgrade" will normally be sufficient; "apt full-upgrade" in situations where you have held packages.
1604[18:08:27] <somiaj> TooOldMind: you can also configure apt to not install recommends by default, but in most cases users shoudln't want to do this, as often recommended packages are needed (though there is always some opinion on what no vital packages are needed by most users and not)
1607[18:10:06] <ralpheeee> ok...i think i am confusing myself....i did a net install and am not 100% sure which pkg pulled in network manger....(i uninstalled network manger hoping just to use systemd-network/resolve only to find network manager installed again)
1608[18:10:25] <ralpheeee> thxs for the patience guys...much appreciated
1609[18:10:36] <somiaj> most desktop tasks will pull in network-manager
1613[18:11:31] <somiaj> so if you used the installer to install a desktop of choice, network manager will be pulled in. YOu'll have to use smaller meta packages (for desktops) to not have network manager installed. You can also just disable network manager (and if you use /etc/network/interfaces, networkmanager will ignore any interface configured there)
1619[18:13:27] <SIRE1> hello. i'm using debian a long time and have a question about updates. I'm running apt-get update and apt-get upgrade all the time but i noticed that my php version is still 7.0.33 instead of 7.3.5 (latest version)... so i thought with "upgrade" all packages will be updated to their new versions... can someone tell me why it isn't and what command I have to use? Thanks.
1631[18:16:42] <somiaj> SIRE1: debian is a (mostly) frozen system. That means once the freeze happens and then the release, the versions in debian will not change. Security fixes will be backported to the versions in debian. Frozen systems have lots of advantages on production systems, but they will not run the current upstream version of any software.
1632[18:16:43] <themill> SIRE1: Debian 9 is never going to get a newer PHP like that. Doing so would break a pile of code and then people would be coming after us with pitchforks.
1636[18:20:51] <somiaj> any package in debian that has a security flaw, the security team will work with upstream to apply the fix to the version inside of debian. So debian packages will be secure. They just won't have any new features (or new bugs)
1640[18:21:59] <somiaj> For example it maybe just a few lines of code that are needed to change to fix some security issue in the code. Those lines and that issue are the only thing that will change in the debian package. This ensures that any applicaiton built on debian's php has a very minimial chance of breaking due to changes in the package.
1642[18:23:07] <somiaj> So though the debian version seems older (7.0.33) it has had any known security holes fixed. It just won't contain any new features (which cause new bugs and can break peoples php code), that come with newer versions.
1713[18:50:46] <mossroy> somiaj: lspci does not give any output in my console
1714[18:51:40] <somiaj> that link doesn't actually provide chipset info. When debugging issues with why a network card isn't being detected by the linux kernel, a chipset is needed.
1715[18:51:46] <somiaj> and you don't see the card in 'ip a'
1716[18:51:56] <mossroy> I suppose the network is handled by the SoC itself. See the A64 column in replaced-url
1736[18:57:29] <mossroy> The ethernet hardware is working on this device, as I manage to use it with armbian (see my blog post in French : replaced-url
1738[18:59:55] <somiaj> That doesn't help figure out why it isn't working in debian. The first thing you need to do is figure out exactly what hardware you have (chipset).
1744[19:01:15] <somiaj> Though as you said it should be in the 4.15 kernel, so maybe you need to check the debian /boot/config-4.19-.. file and see if the support you need is actually compiled intot he debian kernel.
1745[19:01:17] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1748[19:02:10] <mossroy> somiaj: thanks, that's a good idea. I'll run armbian to try to find that. Is there an easy way to know which driver is used for a network interface?
1788[19:14:57] <_CM_> ruslan: its supposed to turn off after 20 min but in that paste bin file it says zero
1789[19:15:15] <mossroy> After failing to detect the network hardware, the debian-installer lists a few drivers. st_mac100 is not listed, but there is stmmac and stmmac-platform. If I manually select one of them, it still fails
1790[19:15:47] <ruslan> _CM_: man xset or use GUI for your DE
1791[19:16:02] <ruslan> _CM_: I suppose DMPS and Sreen Saver will do the trick
1792[19:16:05] <_CM_> ruslan: I do have it set up in the gui for 20 min but the screen never turns off
1793[19:16:17] <_CM_> it was working now its stopped
1831[19:33:25] <ruslan> _CM_: debian users supposed to be able to read manuals. Ubuntu do not have such requirement. $ xset dpms 1800 1800 1800 will set 20 mins (60*20). Read man xset to find out more.
1913[19:59:46] <jhutchins> Ranting about systemd doesn't do anybody any good. Learn to use it, or use a distro that doesn't. Stick with old versions and accept obsolesence.
1914[20:00:03] <Primer> Sure, keep your blinders on
1915[20:00:09] <ayekat> jhutchins: to be fair, the "why reboot" question wasn't answered yet
1916[20:00:20] <Primer> that ^^^
1917[20:00:27] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1918[20:00:41] <Primer> So exaplain why a reboot is necessary in this case. Programs can usually just be restarted.
1919[20:00:55] <Primer> Is it because I'm running? Why not tell me to log out and back in?
1920[20:01:02] <Primer> running X, that is
1921[20:01:21] <GTAXL> Anyone know why both interfaces go down when I remove the cable for one?
1922[20:01:23] <jhutchins> Primer: It's lower-level than X, it's not userspace.
1923[20:01:34] <Primer> jhutchins: not true
1924[20:01:42] <ayekat> dbus is for userspace processes
1925[20:01:42] <Primer> but, do keep going
1926[20:02:21] <jhutchins> GTAXL: Probably your default route is through the unplugged interface.
1927[20:02:36] <ayekat> I think the issue is that there's some parts of systemd that require dbus themselves, so having to restart dbus-daemon comes close to systemd itself going "welp..."
1928[20:02:58] <Primer> yes, I know this is why
1929[20:03:02] <GTAXL> but they are both on LAN
1930[20:03:03] <Primer> I'm being disingenuous
1931[20:03:14] <ayekat> but I think the core part of systemd should survive a dbus restart even without requiring a reboot
1932[20:03:24] <Primer> It's because you have to restart PID 1
1933[20:03:25] <_CM_> interesting.......... this command worked the last time I was in debian
1971[20:08:22] <Primer> It wasn't linked to anything, and nothing you ever did affected it
1972[20:08:36] *** Joins: hele (~hele@replaced-ip)
1973[20:08:57] <GTAXL> jhutchins, they are both on LAN, so this isn't a default route issue, although that could be an issue later as I'm looking to replace the onboard ethernet with the new 10Gbps NIC
1974[20:09:04] <Primer> But now, systemd IS linked to libraries, and when those libraries get updated, and the programs are using that but PID 1 is not...yeah...
1975[20:09:45] <ayekat> yeah, but again, having to restart PID 1 is no longer an issue thanks to `daemon-reexec`
1976[20:10:23] <Primer> ayekat: you sure? If this is the case, why is it telling me to reboot? :)
1977[20:10:39] <ayekat> Primer: a confused packager, I assume :-)
1978[20:11:33] <Primer> I know this info I'm on about isn't new. In fact, it's the main argument against systemd. I was under the impression that PID 1 simply could not be restarted without all its children going away
1980[20:12:07] <ayekat> well, it can :-) the issue you're facing here is more dbus, which is another kind of beast that I haven't really understood
1981[20:12:57] <Primer> Well, I suppose old init based systems would restart init at runtime if it got replaced. I know that PID 1 being linked to system libs is at the root of this reboot issue, but I forget how
1983[20:13:24] <ayekat> (at least I can `systemctl daemon-reexec` while watching youtube videos without any issues - dbus updates, on the other hand...)
1984[20:13:39] <Primer> I don't think that's the same thing
1988[20:15:01] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1989[20:15:34] <Primer> So I need to understand something. I debootrap'ed the system I'm on using this zfs root guide, but I picked buster, not stretch. The system is up, I'm in KDE, but I want to "move" to testing. Is it basically s/buster/testing/g for all files in /etc/apt?
1999[20:17:12] <Primer> But there is no such thing as testing-backports. right? I can just remove that line? I imagine it'll cause errors in apt update if left there and invalid
2000[20:17:25] <annadane> you can just remove that line
2001[20:17:37] <Primer> wonderful, thanks
2002[20:17:49] * Primer makes a zfs snapshot of his root fs
2003[20:17:59] <annadane> yeah no, there never is "testing-backports"
2004[20:18:11] <Primer> hrmm, I should actually make a new dataset for this root fs
2005[20:18:18] <annadane> there might be buster-backports, but as it's not stable yet, it won't be there and there wouldn't be anything in it regardless
2006[20:18:39] <Primer> there is, as the guide had "stretch" everywhere, and all I did was s/stretch/buster/g and it worked
2026[20:32:12] <Primer> also, KDE's touchpad UI (and presumably any other DE's) has all the fine tuning pieces grayed out when using libinput, and is not the case when using synaptics
2027[20:32:21] <rant> Primer: you are referring to the scroll continuing after you stop moving/lift your finger?
2037[20:34:34] <rant> Primer: its called kinetic scrolling near as I can tell and libinput didnt implement it because they consider it a bug and that it should be implemented at a client level within individual widgets so they are able to detect the source of the events
2038[20:34:35] <Primer> I'm wondering if I missed out on something because I used deboostrap and tasksel, and not an actual "install"
2039[20:34:53] <Primer> rant: yes, this most definitely should be a userspace thing, IMO
2040[20:35:08] <Primer> And it looks like synaptics is doing it in the driver
2044[20:36:25] <Primer> and yes, "kinetic" is the word I was looking for. Thanks for that too
2045[20:36:33] <rant> Primer: synaptics drivers are deprecated and will likely not be supported in the future so you'd best look into patches for things and pushing for implementation of this feature going forward
2049[20:37:56] *** Quits: viruscthulhu (~virus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2050[20:38:18] <rant> Primer: yes well as is everything in debian, this is all done by the volunteer work of our users, so.. its likely outdated and needs to be rewritten
2053[20:38:55] <rant> sounds to me like the bigger issue with driver implemented kinetic scrolling is the bit where it talks about the events being sent to the cursor position
2056[20:39:32] <rant> where when implemented on a per-widget basis this wont happen, the events will be known as being simulated and where their appropriate target is
2057[20:40:04] <Primer> yes, this makes lots of sense. I just don't want to have to wait for it, so synaptics it is for now
2080[20:44:16] <rant> yes well the series I have had an absolutely atrocious touchpad but I am fortunate, the kid I traded for this Thinkpad T440 had retrofitted a 1080p screen, a 3 button touchpad, and put the largest batteries available in it
2081[20:44:44] <rant> the *40 line of thinkpads all had these atrocious buttoneless clickpads
2082[20:45:06] <Primer> heh that's exactly what I wanted
2083[20:45:17] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2084[20:45:30] <rant> my cousin who I sold me x240 to said he likes the clickpad.. he liked the incredibly tactile feel of it clicking
2085[20:45:32] <Primer> I got this msi gs65. One of the main reasons why I like it is because of the large touchpad
2086[20:45:39] <ruslan> I'm using my keyboard about 4 years, it feels so foreign when I'm trying to type on someone's keyboard...
2114[20:50:08] <rant> for things like gaming or art or such, you need a mouse.. but I find the trackpoint to be far less stress than a touchpad for when you're on the move
2115[20:50:37] <rant> less movement overall is required and no need to put your hands in an unnatrual cortorted position
2116[20:51:13] <Primer> This is the main reason I had to switch laptops. The 14" I got from work in a pinch when my last one died is just too small
2117[20:51:42] <Primer> And I didn't want to start getting carpal tunnel. Also, the 14" screen at native 1920 was too small and futzing with scaling sucked
2119[20:52:01] <Primer> Plus worked owed me a better laptop and boss lady said "get him any laptop he wants" :)
2120[20:52:02] <rant> yeah I had the x240 before this t440, and it was only 12 inches.. but it didnt /feel/ small using it.. felt big in a small package
2121[20:52:08] <Primer> work*
2122[20:52:32] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2123[20:52:42] <rant> it also fit nicely into the most secure padded compartment of my Swiss Digital Circuit backpack.. the T440 is too large and I have to put it in the 2nd most secure position
2124[20:53:09] <Primer> I'm also working exclusively from home and having the portability to go back and forth anywhere (garage, living room, back yard, whatever) was too much to give up
2126[20:53:27] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
2127[20:53:45] <rant> the smaller compartment goes against your back, is rigidly formed to resist crushing, where the larger one opposite it, is against the main compartment so heavy objects inside are pressing on it with only the coushins to absorb the shock
2140[20:56:17] <rant> yeah I'm a big fan of multihead.. software support is still rather primitive
2141[20:56:47] <rant> I find it way easier to work especially coding and such when I can have multiple screens
2142[20:56:57] <Primer> The other at home. I'm sure I have a pick somewhere, but meh, I tore that system down a while back and made my new system, which currently has 4 displays (it had 5 a few days ago): replaced-url
2143[20:57:25] <Primer> but now I only work on a laptop. That monster system is strictly a DAW.
2157[21:03:04] <rant> karlpinc: I may give that a try.. I got a thin client here I am currently not using that has a Radeon R2E and supports two displays.. I could give myself two more heads on this setup
2174[21:06:39] <rant> you can get these HP T520 Thin Clients around $50 sometimes on ebay.. they are nice machines.. mine has 4GB Ram 8GB SSD, the SoC is an AMD G-Series dual core 1.2ghz w/ Radeon R2E has VGA and 2xDP can run up to two displays
2175[21:06:59] <karlpinc> rant: I may give that a try. Thanks.
2185[21:08:48] <rant> technically has a SATA header but I read some bad things about it.. reports of the NIC never working again after using it or such
2186[21:09:02] * rant has been too afraid to try it :P
2187[21:09:07] *** Quits: ruslan (~ruslan@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2196[21:11:42] <rant> I've used it as a workstation, media center, and home file/web/streaming server so far.. its handled every task I've thrown at it
2197[21:11:48] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2201[21:13:16] <karlpinc> I really like the idea of no fan.
2202[21:13:31] <jelly> rant: 8GB flash is probably not enough for an OS but an amd cpu and gpu will probably be miles above an arm board of similar price
2203[21:13:59] <rant> yeah.. it just barely ran GTA-San Andreas in wine.. was the most intensive thing I tested it with.. was a lil laggy
2204[21:15:04] <rant> when you figure those cheaper pi boards are like 25-45 bucks then you need an sd, power, etc.. you can't beat a dual-core amd64 SoC with virtualization radeon and dual head support
2205[21:15:31] <rant> the ability to boot PXE, USB, whatever
2210[21:16:58] <rant> It significantly outperformed a Core2Duo 3ghz w/ 4GB ram on all but integer functions in a benchmark I'd thrown together.. its handling of more modern workloads like crypt stuff was way better
2237[21:41:04] <dudebro_> those hp thin clients, depending on use (8gb memory and el cheapo amd), id prolly look for a used nuc with close to similar price range
2238[21:41:35] <dudebro_> unless there are newer models of those, with a bit more oomph
2239[21:42:10] <dudebro_> the shape is better for a small backpack carrying, tho
2240[21:42:15] <rant> its a matter of use case.. a nuc is typically gonna have fans and be more than $50 for example
2241[21:42:54] <rant> those thin clients are rather ridiculously priced.. but you can often enough get that one for around $50 which is what makes it such a good choice for a lot of things
2278[21:52:00] * jordila is wondering about howto to avoid such situations in the future ? Maybe a cronned script which makes sure that the whole LAMP stack services are up an running (and if not, restart them) ?
2280[21:52:38] <rant> dudebro_: I dont see those Celeron J3455 running any less than about $150 used here.. and only support one display and have a fan.. I googled the next gen HP T620 which has a comparable AMD GX-415GA as opposed to the GZ-212JC and they too can be found around $50.. and they are comparable in performance to the J3455
2281[21:53:18] * jordila ah ? à la vivek... replaced-url
2282[21:53:26] <rant> though it does look like they added a fan in the T620
2284[21:53:39] <tds> that's exactly what systemd should be doing for you
2285[21:53:54] <tds> though you may have to tweak the config to have it automatically restart on failure
2286[21:54:02] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2287[21:55:01] <jhutchins> jordila: If you figure out why it crashed you should not need to worry about it. Apache is pretty reliable for 24x7x365 unattended.
2288[21:55:12] <jhutchins> jordila: I've seen systems that have literally been up for years.
2289[21:56:11] <jhutchins> (Not that that's a good idea.)
2290[21:56:13] <jordila> jhuthchins that one, e.g. ... has been running for year without hiccups, since Debian Wheezy times ?
2291[21:56:42] <jhutchins> jordila: Yeah, so figure out what broke it and you should be good for another year.
2295[21:57:39] <karlpinc> jordila: Had you updated any packages? On occasion switching out libaries "under the covers" can make bad things happen.
2296[21:57:41] <dgp> I find writing scripts to restart things much better than actually fixing the issue that caused something to stop working
2297[21:57:42] <jordila> jhutchins logs don't seem to be willing to give any clue (for now)... how to figure out what got broken ?
2298[21:58:13] <somiaj> dgp: though use systemd as tds mentioned, systemd will do this by default for services it starts.
2299[21:58:50] <jhutchins> jordila: That's the problem when things crash, they don't bother to write logs. Was the load high?
2300[21:59:07] <dgp> somiaj: While I get the point of restarting stuff that stops for some reason I can't help but think you're going to just cause bigger problems in the long run
2301[21:59:15] <jhutchins> jordila: What kind of content are you serving?
2303[21:59:32] <dgp> i.e. apache stops because you have no disk space, so you constantly restart it and the stuff running on apache leaves a ton of broken state all over the place
2304[21:59:34] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2305[21:59:59] <annadane> (who even runs out of disk space, i'm intensely paranoid about having enough space)
2306[22:00:01] <somiaj> dgp: Okay, but then why do you need a script to restart it if you aren't going to do it automatically?
2307[22:00:37] <dgp> that was sarcasm
2308[22:00:41] <somiaj> annadane: a stray process can eat up disk space in no time. I had a python webserver that would hit some ulimits, and then fill up my system with 100s of gigbits of logs in about an hour.
2309[22:01:09] <annadane> ok fine fair enough
2310[22:01:17] *** Quits: madage (~madage@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2311[22:01:18] <somiaj> which can catch one off guard.
2315[22:02:35] <jhutchins> Break replication on a MySQL server and it can fill up with binlogs.
2316[22:02:54] <dgp> karlpinc: setting spending limits is probably a good idea ;)
2317[22:03:16] <somiaj> karlpinc: yea, got it fixed. It was my universities security probe, they would do this probe to check for vunlabilities. They didn't find any, but it would make out the processes and effictivally ddos me. Probably good they did that, just annoying because the system is mostly closed from the outside world.
2388[22:51:28] <somiaj> or aptitude search ~i, and it will include the A flag next to autoinstalled pakages.
2389[22:51:38] <jmcnaught> !aptitude clone
2390[22:51:38] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
2391[22:51:45] <somiaj> and jhutchins beat me to the factoid
2392[22:52:38] <NetTerminalGene> microsoft bought debian
2406[22:57:51] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
2407[22:57:54] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2408[22:58:04] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2409[22:58:08] <somiaj> craderscott: ^^ we don't support raspbian here (which is what most using the pi have), you should use their support.
2432[23:09:18] <user> Hi there. I'm looking for some advice. When running "service --status-all" the program hangs on a particular service after "irqbalance". Is there a way to investigate which service is not responsive?
2433[23:09:35] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2434[23:09:40] *** Quits: mehmedbasic (~jesenko@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2457[23:14:09] <Lady_Aleena> Darnit! Inkscape 1.0 alpha 1 isn't even in sid? How long do you think I will have to wait for that version of InkScape to be in a stable release?
2460[23:15:39] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: something like inkscape (provided its build depends aren't that bad) is something one could compile from source and install in /usr/local
2461[23:15:40] <jmcnaught> It might be availabel in buster-backports sometime before bullseye
2462[23:15:46] <Lady_Aleena> *sighs* That version has a fix in it that would help me use it.
2463[23:16:34] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, I don't want to get yelled at for using backports.
2464[23:16:57] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: nothing wrong with using backports.
2466[23:17:16] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: debian doens't always provide all software one wants, and there are ways to install local versions without getting in the way of debian's packages.
2467[23:18:06] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, the hangover I got from my recent jessie->stretch upgrade because of backported programs and nvidia has still got me in its grip.
2468[23:18:23] <towo`> inkscape 1.0 alpha is available as AppImage, so where is the problem?
2469[23:18:51] <Lady_Aleena> towo`, I don't know how to use that. I can't barely remember how to install a backported program.
2470[23:19:01] <Lady_Aleena> s/barely//;
2471[23:19:03] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: the nice thing about my suggestion is this is completely independent of apt/dpkg (so it wouldn'd cause such issues)
2472[23:19:32] <somiaj> but yea, maybe complining something from source isn't your cup of tea. I think an AppImage can be put in your $HOME isolated from the rest of your system and just ran
2473[23:19:40] *** Quits: mehmedbasic (~jesenko@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2474[23:19:44] <somiaj> (I just prefer compliing over using AppImages myself)
2475[23:20:25] <rant> those appimages arent terrible.. it was rather confusing at first to figure out how to open them if you wanted to change something or extract it
2476[23:20:26] <Lady_Aleena> Well, after buster is released as stable next month, I may look into something like that.
2477[23:20:46] <rant> but its less annoying than many other solutions I've seen
2478[23:21:11] <dudebro_> whats the simplest and shortest, easiest remembering way to check the init system in use?
2479[23:21:30] <somiaj> dudebro_: see which program is pid 1
2480[23:22:00] <somiaj> dudebro_: oh in debian this will be /sbin/init, so look at the link, ls -l /sbin/init
2481[23:22:03] <rant> dudebro_: or ls -l /sbin/init may be an indicator
2482[23:23:03] <dudebro_> ps aux |head or something
2483[23:23:09] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: AppImages are actually fiarly safe (if you trust the person you get them from, in this case inkscape developers). Download the image. Run it.
2496[23:25:37] <dpkg> Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (replaced-url
2497[23:25:52] <rant> dudebro_: case $(readlink /sbin/init/) in "/lib/systemd/systemd") ...;; ... esac
2498[23:25:54] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, as I said, I will wait until after Buster is released. I have some other thinking to do before I dive into InkScape, like if wrestling with InkScape's interface is worth it. The interface for InkScape is almost as bad as GIMP's interface.
2499[23:26:17] <somiaj> dudebro_: well this just sounded like an xy problem if you are wanting a script to test what init system is running, so I was wonder what your actual goal is, because there maybe better approaches than scripting this.
2500[23:26:45] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: okay, I was just poitning out that since InkScape provides an AppImage, this is really easy and harmless to your system (as it lives in $HOME) for you to just download it and test it out.
2501[23:27:08] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, I appreciate the information. 8)
2502[23:27:41] <dudebro_> the problem came to my mind couple of days ago, and just at the moment when discussing here, thought how would you check that in script. wasnt an xy problem, merely wandering thoughts of my
2503[23:27:43] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: in general if debian doesn't provide you the software you want to use or test, there are proper ways to do things that won't hurt your system. (:
2506[23:28:27] <somiaj> dudebro_: on non debian systems this maybe different, hence pid 1 is useful to know about. But on debian systems (so debian can nicely support multiple init systems) pid 1 is always /sbin/init, which links to the one being used.
2507[23:29:05] <rant> dudebro_: and pid 1 is always /proc/1/cmdline on any system
2508[23:29:32] <rant> its trivial to test if that is a link, and what its a link to
2509[23:30:29] <rant> one could also check the kernel commandline for an init= I suppose
2510[23:30:38] <f8e3> what happens between 2019-03-12: Full freeze and 2019-07-06: Planned release? can is safely instlal it already and simply update the lastest chagnes via mirror?
2511[23:31:07] <somiaj> f8e3: bug fixes, and more bug fixes.
2513[23:31:30] <somiaj> f8e3: for the most part you are safe to install buster, you won't get any offical security support until the release. It shoudl basically be ready to use, unless you run into one of the remaining 100 rc bugs.
2524[23:33:27] <somiaj> f8e3: correct, once you have buster in your sources.list, all the bug fixes (and future point release fixes) can be pulled in via regular apt update && apt upgrades
2538[23:37:49] <somiaj> what do you mean not listed, I see it there. They are just suggesting using the deb.debian.org redirector which points you to a security mirror.
2539[23:37:53] <somiaj> !deb.debian.org
2540[23:37:53] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See replaced-url
2545[23:39:34] *** Quits: SoulOfMath (~Kernel7BD@replaced-ip) (Quit: Houston, we lost connection!)
2546[23:39:45] <dudebro_> btw, how good is kde with debian testing buster? ive been using debian with xfce, and because i like to use kde too, thought is the debian buster with kde as stable (or compared to lets say opensuse or manjaro)
2569[23:45:04] <rant> I tried XFCE a bit earlier this year and things like hotplugging my extra displays would not resume their previous configuration and such
2576[23:45:56] <rant> and MATE can be modernized a bit
2577[23:46:08] <annadane> i basically like xfce for its default keybindings and applications it comes with
2578[23:46:12] <jhutchins> !debian-next
2579[23:46:12] <annadane> and panels
2580[23:46:13] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2581[23:46:14] <rant> really once you get the hang of the system, you can start mixing and matching
2582[23:46:16] <dudebro_> i like cinnamon. havent been using it much lately, but its to my taste
2583[23:46:21] <f8e3> love xfce here too, simple (little hick up here there with portable devices etc) but the best i could get
2584[23:46:38] <annadane> i use xfce timer + its weather app every day
2585[23:46:44] <rant> dudebro_: in buster, MATE now has two new menus that you may like
2586[23:46:47] <annadane> and it's so nice to just have panels filled with stuff
2587[23:47:00] <jhutchins> dudebro_: That's probably a better place to ask. Plenty of people use KDE on Debian, but it's not the most popular (not even second to gnome, which I think is xfce).
2588[23:47:05] <rant> dudebro_: If you want I could show you them
2589[23:47:21] <f8e3> yes the clipman and screen snapper .... all nice and work
2590[23:47:57] <dudebro_> ok, gotta check out both kde and mate with buster one day. now i have about 6 new installations, that are in temporary state (new computer), so have to fiddle them a bit first
2591[23:48:11] <f8e3> how do you serve the web if there is no gui? like comfy with chromim eg (not textbased lynx etc ) ?
2592[23:48:29] <jhutchins> dudebro_: There are probably a lot of gnome users here since it's the default.
2602[23:52:19] <HelloShitty> That is to format the partition
2603[23:52:33] <HelloShitty> I need an NTFS partition in an USB stick
2604[23:53:02] <HelloShitty> But I don't see any NTFS options in fdisk after I create a new GPT volume
2605[23:53:02] <dudebro_> in fdisk wth gpt, its t and windows something
2606[23:53:04] <cheapie> TIL loadlin from a DOS boot floppy appears to still be an officially-supported way of starting the Debian installer...
2607[23:53:06] <EdePopede> while creating you change the type from 8300
2608[23:53:25] <dudebro_> or microsoft?
2609[23:53:38] <HelloShitty> I'm running fdisk in my Debian
2610[23:53:56] <HelloShitty> and I want to format an USB pen drive with an NTFS partition
2611[23:54:01] <dudebro_> in gpt the selection is different
2612[23:54:21] <BCMM> doesn't it just call it "microsoft basic data" or something?
2613[23:54:25] <HelloShitty> Is there any filesystem that matches NTFS in GPT volumes?
2614[23:54:25] <BCMM> as opposed to specifically ntfs
2615[23:54:27] <dudebro_> yea
2616[23:54:35] <f8e3> HelloShitty: simple do: fdisk /dev/yourusb, then gpt, then n (for new parition) and w confirm write; then use mkfs.ntfs and all fine on your usb i just did that
2631[23:57:19] <BCMM> HelloShitty: see the third paragraph on replaced-url
2632[23:57:32] <BCMM> "According to Microsoft, the basic data partition is the equivalent to master boot record (MBR) partition types 0x06 (FAT16B), 0x07 (NTFS or exFAT), and 0x0B (FAT32)"
2633[23:57:39] <EdePopede> and in gdisk 0700 Microsoft basic data
2634[23:58:01] <HelloShitty> I selected 11
2635[23:58:14] <HelloShitty> That was the optin for Microsoft Basic Data