People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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17 [00:15:58] <somiaj> plantroon: there are various options depending on what the repo is gonna be used for, how big of one, etc.
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21 [00:17:16] <somiaj> plantroon: replaced-url
22 [00:17:35] <somiaj> also depending on what your goal is, apt-cacherng is a nice utility
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26 [00:17:52] <plantroon> I am thinking about mini-dinstall. Not sure about how the repo is gonna be. At most 100 packages, keep old versions, 3 debian releases compatibility and gpg signing. Thats what I need
27 [00:18:21] <somiaj> I have little experince with the actual tools, so no suggestions from me what to use.
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34 [00:21:09] <CH13F> how do i get html folder back in var/replaced-url
35 [00:21:17] <plantroon> thanks anyway, I hope I get replies from someone who has a repo of their own. mini-dinstall seems best for me but I see no recommendations :(
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54 [00:29:15] <plantroon> CH13F: what do you mean? You want the package maintainer's version of the directory /var/replaced-url
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56 [00:29:40] <CH13F> yes
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63 [00:35:29] <plantroon> I usually purge and reinstall the package that provides it (nginx or apache? not sure)
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72 [00:37:03] <CHI3F> i got disconnected so how do i get it back sorry
73 [00:37:35] <plantroon> CHI3F: I usually purge and reinstall the package that provides it (nginx or apache? not sure). But try reading apt-get and dpkg man pages, there might be a better way
74 [00:38:06] <CHI3F> sounds good thank you
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138 [01:16:56] <RandomSerb> hello. I haven't made any changes recently on my debian stretch for my desktop workstation, but since a week ago, after a few days of system not being rebooted, graphics kind of glitches, youtube gets slow, and all the video related stuff
139 [01:17:20] <RandomSerb> this said, I'm running top in terminal, and don't really see anything suspicious
140 [01:17:36] <RandomSerb> also, I can stop all the apps, but it won't get any better until I reboot
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143 [01:19:14] <plantroon> any chance you run out of RAM? Also, any chance you use Intel graphics?
144 [01:19:32] <RandomSerb> replaced-url
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146 [01:20:22] <plantroon> I mean if at all between the system working and not working you run out of RAM :D
147 [01:21:07] <plantroon> I had a similar issue recently and after I have set up monitoring, I found out that the system ran out of RAM regularly and killed some stuff supporting GPU accel
148 [01:21:11] <RandomSerb> plantroon, replaced-url
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151 [01:22:15] <RandomSerb> plantroon, are you saying that if I run out of RAM at any given time, it may be that RAM can't be recovered properly and bugs as I described?
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153 [01:22:48] <RandomSerb> because, as far as my logic goes, it should get in normal once there's enough free RAM
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161 [01:24:14] <plantroon> its about some process getting killed. But dont let that mislead you, I am just wildly speculating as I dealt with something similar recently
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199 [01:52:24] <annadane> i'm an idiot, but does kill <pid> actually do anything?
200 [01:52:32] <annadane> i've been using it but after reading the manpage i'm not so sure
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203 [01:53:16] <annadane> maybe i just kant reed
204 [01:53:35] <dax> yes, it sends the SIGTERM signal to the given pid
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206 [01:54:00] <mutante> annadane: i always get reminded of this quote "Generally, send 15, and wait a second or two, and if that doesn't work, send 2, and if that doesn't work, send 1. If that doesn't, REMOVE THE BINARY because the program is badly behaved! Don't use kill -9. Don't bring out the combine harvester just to tidy up the flower pot.
207 [01:54:50] <annadane> useful, thanks
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211 [01:56:33] <annadane> kill isn't either of those by default, is it?
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214 [01:57:38] <annadane> sorry for being so dense
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216 [01:59:36] <ksk> !kill9
217 [01:59:37] <dpkg> No, no, no! Don't use kill -9. It doesn't give the process a chance to clean up after itself. See: replaced-url
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219 [02:00:01] <annadane> aaaand dead link
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222 [02:00:27] <ksk> mhhm, not sure if all of as are allowed to tweak the entries, will ask an op if I see one ;)
223 [02:00:33] <ksk> s/as/us/
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226 [02:00:58] <EdePopede> the problem is that not even man signal gives any hint what all these signals are meant for
227 [02:00:58] <annadane> yes, we are
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230 [02:01:19] <annadane> syntax is dpkg, no, foo is <reply> blah blah blah...
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232 [02:01:22] <EdePopede> so the user finds out some day that kill -9 is the method to stop a program running wild
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235 [02:03:15] <SoreGums> so toddler mashed my keyboard and now I can't use any of the num-rom/symbols/brackets[{}],equals keys - obviously the keybaord works (1234567890!@#$%^&*()=[{}]) - it is just in this debian vm -
236 [02:03:15] <SoreGums> i setup a new VM and keyboard is fine - any ideas?
237 [02:03:28] <mutante> annadane: The default signal for kill is TERM. that is 15
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239 [02:03:36] <ksk> dpkg, no, kill9 is <reply> No, no, no! Don't use kill -9. It doesn't give the process a chance to clean up after itself. First try kill -15; then try kill -2; then try kill -1.
240 [02:03:37] <annadane> ahh
241 [02:03:38] <dpkg> ksk: okay
242 [02:03:47] <ksk> thanks annadane.
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244 [02:04:05] <annadane> there are other dpkg invocations for changing stuff but that's the most basic
245 [02:05:07] <annadane> for existing factoids it's dpkg, no, etc, for new ones it's dpkg, blah is blah
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248 [02:05:42] <SoreGums> ahh so it ijust inside X LXQt these keys don't work
249 [02:05:42] <SoreGums> fine on the console
250 [02:06:24] <SoreGums> i checked the keyboard lay9out, still US - 105 keys
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253 [02:10:58] <dvs> SoreGums, Have you tried rebooting since the keys work in the console?
254 [02:11:16] <ksk> or, logging out and start a new session maybe?
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256 [02:11:42] <SoreGums> yes rebooted twice
257 [02:12:09] <SoreGums> i'll check a new user then
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263 [02:18:51] <SoreGums> ok - sorted - the issue is with NoMachine doing something weird.
264 [02:18:51] <SoreGums> going direct via the VM after setting the default back to systemctl set-default graphical.target and logging in keys all work
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309 [03:01:13] <jim> hi, what are the depends and rdepends for alsa-utils-udeb? (yes already checked the bot)
310 [03:02:02] <ksk> jim: so, if you already checked apt, why would you ask?
311 [03:02:24] <somiaj> you can also use apt, or apt-rdepends to show this on your system.
312 [03:02:44] <ksk> btw, what is an rdepent?
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314 [03:03:09] <somiaj> reverse depends, so the list of all packages that depend on alsa-utils-udeb
315 [03:03:16] <LtL> jim: alsa-utils, Depends: kmod (>= 17-1~), lsb-base (>= 3.0-9), whiptail | dialog, libasound2 (>= 1.1.1), libc6 (>= 2.15), libfftw3-single3 (>= 3.3.5), libncursesw5 (>= 6), libsamplerate0 (>= 0.1.7), libtinfo5 (>= 6)
316 [03:03:20] <somiaj> (though not sure why you are doing this for a udeb, these packages are for the installer)
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318 [03:03:46] <somiaj> LtL: apt-rdepends will go deeper than that, I think that is just one level, and each of those depend on things and so on.
319 [03:03:47] <bbb98> You wanna watch my Live (Starting in 8-10 minutes)? I am going to touch & play with myself. Enter and reserve your seat (FREE for next 5 people): replaced-url
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322 [03:06:20] <LtL> jim: rdepends replaced-url
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328 [03:11:13] <LtL> somiaj: i don't have a apt-rdepends
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330 [03:11:57] <LtL> somiaj: i used, apt rdepends alsa-utils
331 [03:12:08] <aedinius> apt rdepends, not apt-rdepends
332 [03:13:11] <LtL> did that
333 [03:13:58] <LtL> theres also apt-cache rdepends, same output.
334 [03:14:43] <somiaj> yea, apt can do it. I think apt-rdepends works recursivally which gives you a bigger list but you have to parse out duplicates
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337 [03:15:18] <somiaj> though maybe apt-cache/apt has the full feature now
338 [03:15:50] <LtL> somiaj: ok, yeah... it's not installed.
339 [03:16:06] <LtL> jim: still need it jim?
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342 [03:18:01] <LtL> jim: here you go, replaced-url
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345 [03:18:46] <CarlFK> echo test | tio /dev/ttyACM0 >test.log ... cat test.log Error: Saving current stdio settings failed
346 [03:19:00] <CarlFK> how do I ... make it not error?
347 [03:19:49] <jim> LtL, hi, I was curious, I just built the package, and one of the packages is a udev, alsa-utils-udev, and it's that package I was curious about what depended on it and what it depends on
348 [03:20:55] <jim> or, do udevs depend on anything?
349 [03:21:00] <LtL> W: Unable to locate package alsa-utils-udev
350 [03:21:06] <jim> udebs rather
351 [03:21:18] <somiaj> udev is not the same thing
352 [03:21:24] <jim> and alsa-utils-udeb
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354 [03:21:31] <LtL> nope
355 [03:21:32] <jim> yeah sorry
356 [03:21:54] <somiaj> replaced-url
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358 [03:21:54] <jim> so there's not a depend for that either way?
359 [03:22:03] <aedinius> sd
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361 [03:22:48] <somiaj> they are for the debian installer, just ignore it
362 [03:23:26] <jim> yes, I'm not going to install it... and, it got generated, and I became curious about it
363 [03:23:42] <jim> that's the only reason I asked
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365 [03:24:30] <jim> the page you linked to mostly just has a definition for 'udeb'...
366 [03:26:45] <jim> let me ask a somewhat different question: what use would the debian installer have for sound?
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368 [03:30:34] <LtL> jim: apt-rdepends for pulseaudio, maybe you can glean something from this. replaced-url
369 [03:30:54] <CarlFK> jim: screen reader comes to mind
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374 [03:32:34] <LtL> perhaps, alsaplayer-common/stable 0.99.81-2 amd64
375 [03:33:04] <LtL> that should pull in all you need jim
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387 [03:40:12] <LtL> jim: apt search alsa output, replaced-url
388 [03:41:40] <LtL> alsa is pretty much debian's goto sound, pulse rides on top of it, if needed afaik.
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393 [03:45:36] <somiaj> yea, assessibility needs a sound card
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422 [04:12:41] <SoreGums> gah - my issue was Windows had set my keyboard layout to Vietnamese, omg
423 [04:13:16] <dvs> ha!
424 [04:13:23] <dvs> 3$$#$# $%#$$6j34%#$5#$^# 34 ?
425 [04:13:26] <SoreGums> NoMachine was doing the right thing, VM's were ignoring windows and mapping the correct keys - yet windows itself could use the num row still - gah
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427 [04:13:57] * dvs still blames the toddler
428 [04:15:52] <SoreGums> for real - rumbling my keyboard...
429 [04:16:31] <SoreGums> discovered it by bringing up the windows on-screen keyboard
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432 [04:17:51] <SoreGums> I really like Debian - it starts so fast - like arch, with less updates :P
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434 [04:19:00] <SoreGums> be great once buster is proper released - even less updates then, haha
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436 [04:20:16] <aedinius> debian is pretty alright.
437 [04:20:18] <dvs> 115 bugs left
438 [04:20:36] <aedinius> I don't think I have any real hardware running it anymore though :(
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442 [04:22:24] <dvs> so you're imagining you're running Debian?
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445 [04:23:55] <SoreGums> will be giving it a spin once released maybe nvidia updates will work with my gtx980m now. i can't run any flavour of linux directly on my laptop with-OUT stuttering in youtube.
446 [04:24:37] <SoreGums> it's an optimus laptop - however turned off the intel gpu in the bios - no difference. enable optimus, no dice.
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448 [04:25:45] <SoreGums> from what i read nvidia did weird stuff in this hardware sku then made it work fine in windows, but linux not so much
449 [04:26:08] <aedinius> I want to build out a portable amdgpu for when I'm stuck in a hotel
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452 [04:28:44] <dvs> My ThinkPad has a Radeon built-in!
453 [04:28:59] <rant> I'm sorry to hear that
454 [04:29:00] <SoreGums> yeah, super thin 17" 3840x2160 doesn't need a long battery life, 75mins is enough. just needs enough GPU to save power when doing video/browser rendering.
455 [04:29:00] <SoreGums> then if need proper GPU plug it in.
456 [04:29:03] <aedinius> my thinkpads have either intel or nvidia. my dell has a radeon though
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458 [04:30:26] <aedinius> SoreGums: Yeah, I have plenty of portable laptops that I don't mind if my main portable is a luggable
459 [04:30:27] <dvs> I waited until I could find one with a Radeon in it.
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463 [04:35:02] <alyssa> How do I setup ecryptfs on buster? (Full disk encryption is unfortunately not feasible on my hardware right now.)
464 [04:35:30] <mason> alyssa: Why infeasible?
465 [04:35:59] <alyssa> It's an Arm Chromebook. The kernel situation is.... delicate.
466 [04:36:26] <mason> You can always just encrypt root and such, leave boot unencrypted.
467 [04:36:27] <alyssa> FDE, as far as I know, requires an initramfs/rd to help things along?
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470 [04:37:04] <alyssa> There is no /boot/; it's its own partition. (Chromebooks have a custom bootloader specifically for ChromeOS. Booting Debian is workable with it, since Linux is Linux. But you know.)
471 [04:37:24] <mason> Oh... In which case, maybe just encrypt /home. You can have that happen fairly cleanly.
472 [04:37:43] <alyssa> That's why I was wondering about ecryptfs? :)
473 [04:38:08] <mason> Mm, someone will know, but not me. As for LUKS, you can have /home on LUKS automount with a prompt during boot.
474 [04:38:13] <Lyberta> hi, I'm installing a new system via debootstrap loaded in live system, when I requested to install cryptsetup-initramfs, it tried to read a lot of stuff from /sys, should I have mounted /sys before installing?
475 [04:38:42] <mason> Lyberta: I always mount /proc, /sys, and /dev into the chroot if I'm going to install from it.
476 [04:38:58] <aedinius> proc sys dev run?
477 [04:39:02] <mason> mount --rbind /proc /mnt/proc and so forth
478 [04:39:06] <mason> Run too?
479 [04:39:11] <aedinius> I think so
480 [04:39:18] <mason> I never do it, but maybe something's changed.
481 [04:40:56] <alyssa> Maybe XY question, but... if I grab the sid package for ecryptfs from buster, will anything combust in my face?
482 [04:41:26] <mason> You'd be better off getting the source package and backporting it yourself.
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484 [04:44:10] * alyssa mumbles about not being cut out to be a sysadmin
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486 [04:44:56] <mason> LUKS is the path of least resistance.
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489 [04:45:57] <alyssa> LUKS on a Chromebook sounds... scary, but you're probably right regardless
490 [04:46:43] <mason> Encryption is encryption.
491 [04:46:50] <mason> The cost should be more or less the same.
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497 [04:51:00] <jim> LtL, thanks so much; I'll look that over
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500 [04:52:39] <jim> alyssa, yep, building a debian package on the machine and debian version you'
501 [04:53:17] <mason> One key at a time, please.
502 [04:53:25] <jim> are going to run it on, will ensure that it will run, be linked with what you have, and generally be compatible/installable on your machine
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504 [04:53:55] <jim> mason, still getting used to this keyboard after all these years of having it
505 [04:54:07] <mason> I do that regularly.
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507 [04:54:33] <jim> make that kind of typo? yeah me too
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509 [04:54:39] * alyssa mumbles about maybe porting GalliumOS to aarch64
510 [04:57:17] <jim> you're mumbling! can't understand a thing you say!
511 [04:58:52] <alyssa> jim: Sorry, I'm just trying to mentally balance actual need for encryption, desire for encryption out of principle, personal time available, sysadmin skills, and possibilities for upstream assistance
512 [04:59:15] <jim> add to that, backups
513 [04:59:52] <jim> you might want to make a backup of your entire system before you start, and make sure you can restore from the backup
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515 [05:00:25] <jim> maybe you'd like borg backup, I did
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517 [05:00:48] <jim> borg will optionally encrypt the backups
518 [05:01:44] <alyssa> Well, that ties into the "actual need" category -- 99% of the machine is checkouts of public projects (this is my dev machine) ;)
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521 [05:03:48] <jim> if the checkouts are uptodate with the remote repos they came from, I guess no need to back those up... but you may wish to back up the system stuff and other things, maybe in your home dir, that are personall
522 [05:03:54] <jim> -l
523 [05:04:13] <alyssa> What personal? :)
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526 [05:04:38] <alyssa> The nice thing about the digital age is that, in exchange for zero privacy, you have nothing to backup! ;)
527 [05:04:48] <jim> dunno :) I abstracted what you might find personal with the name "personal" :)
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556 [05:36:28] <Lyberta> I'm trying to install refind in chroot and getting "/boot/efi doesn't seem to be on a VFAT filesystem", I have it mounted, help?
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565 [05:42:55] <Matthias2323> hi, someone of Argentina?
566 [05:44:29] <rant> Lyberta: as root from outside the chroot do lslk -f | nc termbin.com 9999
567 [05:44:35] <rant> erm
568 [05:44:44] <rant> lsblk -f | nc termbin.com 9999
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572 [05:47:24] <rant> or even better yet (lsblk -f; mount)|nc termbin.com 9999
573 [05:47:30] <Lyberta> rant, replaced-url
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578 [05:51:49] <Lyberta> rant, replaced-url
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583 [05:57:37] * rant shrugs
584 [05:58:30] <rant> I never used this before.. I keep my entire /boot unencrypted
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586 [05:59:28] <Lyberta> rant, that is required for pre-EFI systems, but in UEFI you can just copy kernel and initramfs to ESP and have everything else encrypted
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593 [06:05:32] <Lyberta> what package provides /etc/mtab?
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607 [06:18:07] <rant> Lyberta: in debian /etc/mtab is a symlink to /proc/self/mounts
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690 [07:38:19] <mzajc> I have a problem with grub. Grub allows everyone to temporarily edit the script that starts up the OS, which can lead to permission elevation. Is there any way for me to disable the edit script (E) and open shell (C) prompts from the OS selection screen?
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698 [07:43:58] <abrotman> or put a password on grub editing?
699 [07:44:06] <detha> To edit that, the attacker needs physical access or access to your mgmt network. If that is the case, you have other ptoblems.
700 [07:44:26] <mzajc> abrotman: How do I do that?
701 [07:44:46] <abrotman> detha: while yes, that doesn't answer the question ..
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704 [07:45:28] <detha> correct. my point was, why bother.
705 [07:46:18] <abrotman> detha: Because security is a multi-phased approach?
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707 [07:47:01] <mzajc> Either way, I've already managed to generate a password using grub-mkpasswd-pbkdf2. Now I just want to know how to make grub use it.
708 [07:47:01] <abrotman> mzajc: replaced-url
709 [07:47:59] <detha> abrotman: in the whole 'defense in depth' thing, it may slow someone down a bit yes. IMO not enough to be worth the inconvenience
710 [07:49:24] <abrotman> detha: But you're not asking the question, it's not your decision (and you're not being helpful in any way)
711 [07:50:34] <abrotman> There are many stages of "But, if ...
712 [07:50:35] <abrotman> "
713 [07:53:31] <detha> Correct. We considered this, long ago. We rejected it for the reasons mentioned above. Just stating that it may not offer the protection the OP might think it offers
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715 [07:54:46] <abrotman> Right, so maybe he'll get a case lock, or encrypt the drives, or boobytrap the case with EMP .. lots of options, but this is one step that they've asked about, and we can help with
716 [07:54:51] <mzajc> I know well what protection just setting a password to the grub editors ofeers.
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718 [07:55:13] <mzajc> *offers
719 [07:55:31] <abrotman> you've spent more time arguing against security than it took me to find a reference page for setting a grub2 password
720 [07:56:07] <abrotman> Again, it's not your system, they asked a question .. if you don't want to help, no need to chime in
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723 [07:58:11] <mzajc> abortman: I've added this replaced-url
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725 [08:00:06] <abrotman> from the docs:
726 [08:00:09] <abrotman> The user may prefer to enter this data into a custom file, such as /etc/grub.d/40_custom so it is not overwritten should the Grub package be updated. If placing the information in a custom file, do not include the "cat << EOF" and "EOF" lines as the content is automatically added from these files.
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728 [08:00:27] <mzajc> Got it
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779 [08:39:16] <ihateAdmins> Hello, i'm trying to enable autlogin as root in lightdm and edited /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/01_debian.conf for it, but it still doesn't work, when i reboot or restart service i still get the login prompt
780 [08:39:58] <rant> wtf would you be digging into /usr/share/anything to enable autologin?
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782 [08:40:10] <rant> configuration is in /etc/
783 [08:40:42] <SpeedyG> probably because he hates admins ;)
784 [08:40:55] <ihateAdmins> i saw it in a tutorial, but i didn't see it's different in the debian manual.. thanks
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786 [08:41:12] <rant> first you probably need to reinstall lightdm to fix whatever nonsense you did
787 [08:41:16] <SpeedyG> its the same in nearly every distro... /usr/share is only for examples/templates/other stuff
788 [08:41:43] <rant> then you need to edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
789 [08:42:45] <rant> then under [Seat ..whatever] uncommend the line autologin-user= and just put a username at the end
790 [08:42:51] <rant> and you're done
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795 [08:45:02] <rant> though personally I'd use nodm for autologin, then you can easily switch back to normal login with systemctl,service,dpkg-reconfigure, etc
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802 [08:47:09] <ihateAdmins> i uncommented (and added root) like in the debian wiki, but it didn't work im still getting the login prompt
803 [08:47:47] <rant> I wouldnt doubt there is probably a safegaurd against you logging into X as root.. cause its a VERY BAD IDEA
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806 [08:49:24] <rant> even if you are running a machine in a highly trusted environment most code isnt meant to be run as root, it can literally destroy hardware
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808 [08:50:39] <ihateAdmins> i understand your concerns, i will change that later on but for now i want it to be root :)
809 [08:50:50] <rant> and I or anyone else here with any sense is not going to help you any further in doing so.. you're on your own.. or you can be more specific about what you need and we can talk about more sane ways to do things
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811 [08:51:30] <rant> I wouldnt bother looking into what stops you from doing so, because whatever it is.. its a good thing
812 [08:51:57] <rant> and you really don't understand, or you wouldnt have even asked
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815 [08:53:53] <ihateAdmins> of course i do, obviously i will change it to a user account and use sudo, but it should be possible to use root too, i don't like safety measures against my will of any reason
816 [08:54:21] <abrotman> Have you heard of DOS?
817 [08:54:30] <rant> its not about your will.. the software is without warranty for a reason
818 [08:54:31] <jim> and if he didn't understand, that would be totally ok
819 [08:54:45] <rant> its about you running something as root that the designer never intended to be running as root
820 [08:55:30] <rant> there are things that can literally fry the hardware.. svgatextmode for example includes in its documentation saying just that.. it can completely ruin your video card
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824 [08:56:23] <abrotman> dpkg: flw79
825 [08:56:23] <dpkg> from memory, flw79 is <ihateAdmins > of course i do, obviously i will change it to a user account and use sudo, but it should be possible to use root too, i don't like safety measures against my will of any reason
826 [08:57:58] <ihateAdmins> well it works fine with a user account, i will stick to that, thanks for the help was an amusing talk
827 [08:58:02] <abrotman> ihateAdmins: Have you looked at the lightdm docs to see if there's an explicit method denying 'root' from running Xorg? Obviously you can run Xorg as root if you choose
828 [08:58:05] <abrotman> ah okay
829 [08:58:11] <abrotman> well, problem solved it seems
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859 [09:28:26] <choice> Good Morning!
860 [09:28:36] <klys> hi
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866 [09:30:15] <choice> So far I had VMs in the cloud: 1 for production and 1 for testing. Both with Debian 8. I wonder if I can save one VM by doing the testing in a docker container with Debian 8. What do you guys think?
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868 [09:31:35] <ihateAdmins> Good morning, im having issues with my screen resolution, i installed the nvidia drivers as in the debian manuals, but the highest resolution i get in xrandr or nvidia-settings is 1360x768. My gpu is the gtx 750ti and i want the resolution to be 1920x1080(i am able to get it with windows/kali). I already tried the xrandr newmode with Modeline metho
869 [09:31:35] <ihateAdmins> d, but that didn't work
870 [09:32:39] <klys> ihateadmins, what was your modeline?
871 [09:32:56] <ihateAdmins> Modeline "1920x1080_60.00" 173.00 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088 1120 -hsync +vsync
872 [09:33:20] <klys> that doesn't look like a 60 Hz modeline.
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877 [09:35:21] <ihateAdmins> Well 60Hz is the only option in nvidia-settings i don't know what you mean
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879 [09:35:47] <klys> well then again, I suppose it does.
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903 [09:58:29] <xevilstar> good morning
904 [09:58:45] <choice> When you run debian 9.9 from debian.org on a VM and debian 9.9 from docker.io in a container - how similar/different are these environments then?
905 [09:58:59] <choice> I know the container will use the kernel of the host.
906 [09:59:02] <choice> Any other differences?
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943 [10:29:50] <ChrisH> I am looking for Kiosk Browser mode using Debian. I managed to get it working on Centos but would prefer Debian. I did not yet find documentation on how to to do it. xguest (centos/RHEL way) does not seem to be avaliable on Debian.
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948 [10:35:34] <Fox> ChrisH: found this after 5mn of googling maybe it'll do the job replaced-url
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953 [10:43:32] <ChrisH> Fox: Thanks. I spend a longer time, most probably using wrong search terms. I will give it a try.
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957 [10:49:52] <Fox> ChrisH: yaw
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1022 [11:23:55] <Barabacha> how to update a PHP application in a production environment without breaking anything?
1023 [11:24:38] <Johann> Barabacha: that's a million dollar question
1024 [11:24:55] <Barabacha> what are the best practices?
1025 [11:25:02] <Barabacha> it's literally my first time
1026 [11:25:06] <e> unclear how this is a debian question
1027 [11:25:13] <ihateAdmins> maybe wait with the update until every other dependecy is updated as well
1028 [11:25:14] <Barabacha> it's on debian
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1031 [11:26:54] <SpeedyG> Barabacha: its more an application question than a debian question really... you have to know which dependencies the application has to which libraries, how it all ties together...
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1035 [11:27:50] <SpeedyG> when it comes to process, make sure to have it running in a testing/acceptance environment, perform the OS-updates and check if everything still works..
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1068 [11:46:33] <DrBunsen> Hey all, quick question. My HDD is dying and I want to replace it with a SSD, if I use dd to copy the HDD to the SSD, will the kernel automatically detect it is a SSD and change accordingly? Or should I just do a fresh install?
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1074 [11:50:35] <e> it should not care
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1081 [11:53:42] <DrBunsen> e: thanks
1082 [11:53:52] <DrBunsen> Figured as much
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1144 [12:28:40] <ChrisH> Fox: confirmed. Works at least inside a test VM. Thanks again.
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1146 [12:30:22] <Fox> good to know, you're welcome
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1240 [13:24:38] <xevilstar> please help replaced-url
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1245 [13:27:16] <petn-randall> xevilstar: How is this related to Debian?
1246 [13:27:52] <xevilstar> it is related to the fact that app_java is missing on buster repo
1247 [13:28:01] <humpled> i don't understand the purpose of copying a filesystem bit by bit instead of creating a nice new filesystem and copying files into it
1248 [13:28:08] <xevilstar> since gcj was removed
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1253 [13:29:03] <xevilstar> I have managed to compile it without gcj but got a memory leak problem that is beyond me
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1259 [13:29:35] <xevilstar> since I am using openjdk there will be no issues on making a deb myself if anyone here could help me
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1262 [13:30:04] <xevilstar> humpled: is that ok ?
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1265 [13:30:22] <xevilstar> opps i meant to say
1266 [13:30:27] <xevilstar> petn-randall: is that ok
1267 [13:30:31] <xevilstar> ?
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1276 [13:32:53] <petn-randall> xevilstar: Are you using kamailio from the Debian repos?
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1282 [13:34:29] <xevilstar> yes tried that version too same problem exactly the same error, then switched to the kamailio repo hoping it would solve the problem
1283 [13:34:44] <xevilstar> for the record deb replaced-url
1284 [13:34:44] <xevilstar> deb-src replaced-url
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1291 [13:40:26] <rant> xevilstar: the deb-src line is probably doing nothing for you but making your cache update take longer.. those lines are only if you need source code
1292 [13:41:10] <xevilstar> rant: thanks but ... what about the memory leak ?
1293 [13:41:46] <rant> xevilstar: is there a CVE on this issue?
1294 [13:42:10] <rant> ,v kamailio
1295 [13:42:11] <judd> Package: kamailio on amd64 -- jessie: 4.2.0-2+deb8u3; jessie-security: 4.2.0-2+deb8u5; stretch: 4.4.4-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 4.4.4-2+deb9u3; buster: 5.2.1-1; sid: 5.2.2-1
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1298 [13:43:30] <xevilstar> rant: the kamailio-java depends still on gcj and not on openjdk so it is not present in buster since buster has gcc 8 that has no gcj
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1300 [13:44:05] <xevilstar> I am near to make a deb that will depend on openjdk if anyone could give me some hints about the error
1301 [13:44:13] <rant> xevilstar: this is a debian support channel, we support debian, not third party repos.. there is no mention on tracker or bts about this issue or a memory leak
1302 [13:44:30] <rant> you are using our testing branch apparently and have not filed any bugs
1303 [13:44:33] <xevilstar> rant: I sent a mail to the list also
1304 [13:45:15] <xevilstar> and it was a requirement to use kamailio 5 anyway
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1307 [13:47:03] <rant> xevilstar: idk what you want us to do for you here.. either you need to remove that repo, install the debian package, file some bugs and maybe we can help some on this, or you need to goto #kamailio
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1312 [13:50:12] <petn-randall> xevilstar: If you want to fix the upstream one, then solve that with upstream. We have zero control over their packages. If you want it fixed in Debian, I'd suggest you file a bug report with Debian. The maintainer might not know about this issue yet.
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1315 [13:50:46] <xevilstar> rant: I started from the one in debian repo
1316 [13:50:49] <rant> humpled: if the filesystem is damaged or if you want to make a clone, do forensics, etc, block level makes more sense.. each way has its uses
1317 [13:51:12] <xevilstar> petn-randall: I have written to the mailing list isn't that enough ? what should I do ?
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1319 [13:51:23] <xevilstar> by the way I am talking on upstream channel also
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1322 [13:52:12] <rant> xevilstar: congratulations.. point is we here are debian users supporting debian.. most of us probably never even heard of kamailio and we can't hardly be expected to support issues with the upstream packages. The users of kamailio and the developers are in #kamailio
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1324 [13:52:33] <petn-randall> xevilstar: You can use `reportbug` to report the bug to Debian.
1325 [13:53:01] <rant> reportbug is fairly useless imho especially when you have an upstream version installed
1326 [13:53:16] <petn-randall> xevilstar: But gcj is not maintained, so going back to it is not an option.
1327 [13:53:38] <petn-randall> rant: Feel free to offer better suggestions.
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1329 [13:54:50] <rant> my suggestion is to open whatever you use for email, To: submit@bugs.debian.org with the first two lines of the email being "package: kamailio" and "version: 5.2.1-1" (without the quotes) and describing the problem in detail
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1331 [13:55:12] <rant> and some kind of concise description in the subject line
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1334 [13:55:54] <xevilstar> rant: doing it
1335 [13:56:19] <rant> reportbug just gives you an annoying template most people dont even have the decency to remove, that will have an upstream version number of the package which is meaningless to our maintainer
1336 [13:56:40] <rant> xevilstar: report whatever issue you had with the DEBIAN BUSTER version, not with the UPSTREAM package
1337 [13:57:08] <xevilstar> rant: ok since the error is exactly the same word by word
1338 [13:57:12] <rant> debian packages are almost always DRASTICALLY different than their upstream versions
1339 [13:58:01] <rant> no, the error you were mentioning sounded like a packaging issue.. and we have automated systems that would've caught that before it had a snowballs chance in hell of getting anywhere near buster
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1342 [13:58:23] <rant> replaced-url
1343 [13:58:52] <rant> you'll see there things are held up reaching sid/buster due to many issues that were auto-detected
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1347 [14:01:32] <rant> if I were absoultely required the use of this package I'd not be using buster or sid right now, and I'd be seriously considering using something else entirely.. the road ahead for this is not looking good
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1349 [14:02:14] <rant> ,popcon kamailio
1350 [14:02:15] <judd> Popcon data for kamailio: inst: 115, vote: 53, old: 56, recent: 4, nofiles: 2
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1353 [14:02:34] <petn-randall> rant: The thing is that people often get the syntax wrong, which is why reportbug was invented ...
1354 [14:03:16] <rant> petn-randall: yeah well the only thing worse than incorrect syntax (its really simple) is incorrect information that has people running down issues that don't exist
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1356 [14:03:24] <xevilstar> rant: don't be so negative... I am talking on the upstream channel too
1357 [14:03:29] <xevilstar> [13:52:52] <xevilstar> db_res of srdb1 has pkg_free((str *)RES_NAMES(_r)[col]);
1358 [14:03:31] <xevilstar> [13:55:55] <tsearle> ok, so I guess the issue is a double free then
1359 [14:03:33] <xevilstar> [13:57:24] <tsearle> the method this line is in, I assume it's getting invoked by app_java (or app java calls a method that in turn invokes the crashing method)
1360 [14:03:35] <xevilstar> [13:57:33] <tsearle> but would find it strange that app_java would need a database
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1363 [14:03:45] <petn-randall> rant: And how does not using reportbug prevent that ...?
1364 [14:03:51] <rant> this user currently has the upstream package installed.. reportbug would be pulling in info on that
1365 [14:04:20] <rant> if in fact they had a different issue on the debian version, they can manually put the right headers in and explain that issue
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1371 [14:06:44] <rant> and fwiw I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.. the tracker has a bunch of red flags on this package, its not even being considered for update for this upcomming release .. its flagged for several major transitions.. and seems both the current debian and upstream version are buggy from what you're sayig and its popcon score is low which means almost nobody cares
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1374 [14:08:39] <xevilstar> rant: mail sent
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1376 [14:09:07] <xevilstar> meanwhile ... is there here any programmer expert willing to help on that like which causes the memory leak ?
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1379 [14:09:49] <dvs> 112 bugs!
1380 [14:10:43] <rant> you are seriously misunderstanding and abusing the scope of this channel
1381 [14:10:46] <N4Z4__> Hello :)
1382 [14:11:03] <apollo13> chances that people are bored enough to look for memory leaks in weird 3rd party software is slim at best
1383 [14:11:30] <apollo13> hell, looking for memory leaks in your own code is annoying enough, in 3rd party software only if you throw loads of money :D
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1390 [14:16:02] <rant> we're very close to a release, folk are focused on more serious issues things like this systemd patch I'm holding my breath on that will affect a LARGE number of our users.. not 4 people like whatever this SIP issue is :P
1391 [14:16:46] <apollo13> rant: which systemd patch? :)
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1393 [14:17:37] <rant> the one that addresses a total cascading failure on AMD cpus after wakeup from an S3 state :-/ replaced-url
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1396 [14:17:55] <apollo13> ah well, who uses AMD :D
1397 [14:18:49] <rant> heh.. I do on my home server atm.. but I dont put it to sleep.. my concern is it will affect a lot of people and its so obscure we will be hardpressed to run it down when it winds up here
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1583 [14:27:56] <xevilstar> rant: replaced-url
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1595 [14:28:45] <rant> xevilstar: yeah I been auto refreshing the page waiting on it.. I am dealing with phone calls and other crap this morning :P
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1619 [14:31:24] <rant> ,depends kamailio-java-modules buster
1620 [14:31:25] <judd> No package named 'kamailio-java-modules' was found in buster/amd64.
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1622 [14:31:40] <petn-randall> xevilstar: You didn't mention the memory leak issue in the bug report, and neither linked to the upstream issue.
1623 [14:31:40] <rant> ,depends kamailio-java buster
1624 [14:31:41] <judd> No package named 'kamailio-java' was found in buster/amd64.
1625 [14:31:52] <petn-randall> (this is why there's `reportbug` ...)
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1628 [14:33:03] <xevilstar> petn-randall: in the end is the final goal we all need, anyway I am ready to send another on Monday :)
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1633 [14:35:17] <rant> I'm a bit confused here.. this is all I can find replaced-url
1634 [14:35:34] <rant> there is no tracker info on this, no bugs other than the one just filed..
1635 [14:35:42] <petn-randall> A good problem description is the first step to a good bug report.
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1639 [14:35:57] <rant> this is a wishlist / wnpp bug it seems
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1642 [14:36:22] <petn-randall> It's a bug report to an invalid package, so nobody will see it.
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1645 [14:36:45] <rant> you file this against wnpp right?
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1647 [14:36:53] <petn-randall> Ah wait, that package *does* exist.
1648 [14:37:02] <rant> not officially
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1650 [14:37:30] <rant> its only in hppa/sh4 (unofficial) and its on an old version not the current sid version
1651 [14:37:31] <jelly> rant: noone puts amd machiens to sleep?
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1654 [14:37:50] <petn-randall> xevilstar: kamailio-java-modules does not exist in buster/sid, so I you'll need to explain the issue more in detail for anyone to actually fix it.
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1658 [14:38:04] <rant> jelly: >:-/
1659 [14:38:31] <xevilstar> petn-randall: the package was there for kamailio version 4 I need 5
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1661 [14:38:52] <apollo13> xevilstar: then why don't you start by properly packaging it? :D
1662 [14:38:53] <xevilstar> anyway if I need to explain more I will on monday on the next bug report
1663 [14:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1474
1664 [14:39:10] * petn-randall rubs temples.
1665 [14:39:28] <xevilstar> apollo13: houston we have a problem here.... I would as soon as it works
1666 [14:39:30] <rant> ,bug 736212
1667 [14:39:31] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1668 [14:39:55] <rant> this train stalled on the tracks years ago
1669 [14:40:17] <petn-randall> xevilstar: You can't say the dependencies are missing in buster if that package doesn't exist there, so your bug report does not compute.
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1672 [14:40:44] <rant> dpkg, what is wnpp?
1673 [14:40:44] <dpkg> For information on packages which are not in Debian but you think should be, check the Work-Needing and Prospective Packages list at replaced-url
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1676 [14:41:09] <xevilstar> rant: thanks
1677 [14:42:03] <rant> dpkg, what is rfp?
1678 [14:42:03] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
1679 [14:42:19] <cbilt> dpkg, what is dpkg?
1680 [14:42:19] <dpkg> somebody said dpkg was the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
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1682 [14:42:42] <rant> cbilt: lets not get carried away, you can /msg the bot or talk to it in #debian-bots
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1686 [14:42:58] <cbilt> lol.
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1689 [14:43:23] <rant> xevilstar: your bug should've been filed against wnpp in this case
1690 [14:43:26] <xevilstar> cbilt: have you tried searching google on google ? hahahahahah
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1697 [14:46:23] <ihateAdmins> i have found something strange.. when i type ifconfig im getting 192.168.*.51 but my network configuration shows that my ip is 192.168.*.134 and im connected over ssh ... I just tested it with the other ip and it seems im getting a connection to that ip as well, so my system is using 2 ips.. how is that even possible
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1703 [14:48:30] <jmcnaught> ihateAdmins: how is your network configured?
1704 [14:48:36] <xevilstar> rant: sent it also to wnpp
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1706 [14:49:06] <xevilstar> jmcnaught: he hates us :(
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1710 [14:49:29] <ihateAdmins> what do you mean? Im using network-manager on xfce, im using my own ip *.134 entry in the ipv4 setting
1711 [14:49:35] <rant> xevilstar: did you use the subject RFP: kamailio-java-modules or such like the bot said?
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1713 [14:49:52] <ihateAdmins> but i can still acces the pc with *.54 so i have both ips..
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1715 [14:50:10] <xevilstar> rant: i read it all here replaced-url
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1717 [14:50:43] <xevilstar> ihateAdmins: please do not hate :(
1718 [14:51:26] <ihateAdmins> xevilstar don't be superficial :(
1719 [14:51:39] <xevilstar> ihateAdmins: just joking :)
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1722 [14:52:53] <ihateAdmins> ah ok i solved it now i have 3 ips :joy:
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1724 [14:53:04] <rant> ihateAdmins: you'd probably need to be more specific about whats going on here.. first of all there are no * in ipv4 addresses and 127. 192.168. 10. are all internal ips this isnt sensitive information
1725 [14:53:30] <rant> ihateAdmins: I am speculating you have some kinds of VM scenario going on
1726 [14:53:32] <ihateAdmins> i just typed all ip adresses just a few lines above, but it's solved
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1732 [14:53:57] <ihateAdmins> i was just using * as placeholder here
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1781 [15:29:02] <rant> xevilstar: you still gonna be here in a few hours?
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1783 [15:29:37] <xevilstar> rant: thank you, please define few
1784 [15:29:39] <xevilstar> :)
1785 [15:29:51] <rant> xevilstar: idk 2hrs from now
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1787 [15:30:19] <xevilstar> rant: it could pretty much be, got anything in mind ? :)
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1791 [15:31:48] <rant> I got an appointment to go to and I got no interest in this sip server, but I grabbed the source and was compiling crap on buster amd64.. so far I tried just extracting app_java/ and it didnt seem to wanna build without the full source tree, so I extracted that and "make" and "make modules"
1792 [15:32:05] <rant> went ok.. but I dont see anywhere that its built the java part yet.. so idk..
1793 [15:32:31] <rant> as in there are no .o or such files in app_java/
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1795 [15:33:00] <rant> one thing I did notice though the MakeFile in app_java/ seems to have a lot of incorrect paths for buster's jdk 11
1796 [15:33:32] <rant> but I gotta run.. got a 10am appointment, its 9:33, I'll be back in a bit
1797 [15:33:32] <xevilstar> rant: been there done that I fixed the paths and it compiled fine
1798 [15:33:52] <xevilstar> rant: (hope she's pretty ;) )
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1900 [16:31:53] <dasshankh> pretty dead place
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1902 [16:33:28] <amelia_> It's IRC, folk are across a bunch of different timezones, doing different things, often being AFK or doing other stuff with life. Nature of the beast.
1903 [16:33:47] <amelia_> If you're looking for something in particular, you could try asking and waiting for a reply, or taking a peek at replaced-url
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1906 [16:34:14] <annadane> still, fairly unusual to be this quiet on a weekday
1907 [16:34:28] <annadane> still, that probably means debian is working as intended and nobody has any problems :-)
1908 [16:34:36] <ihateAdmins> well there is some active people :) i can no longer login to xfce/lighdm with my user account, but root works.. i checked the lightdm log, but it is not returning any error
1909 [16:34:51] <xevilstar> annadane: weren't you here sometime ago ?
1910 [16:34:59] <jelly> this channel is expected to be quiet if there are no tech questions. Chat goes to #debian-offtopic
1911 [16:35:41] <ihateAdmins> when im logging in it just goes black and the login menu pops up again..
1912 [16:36:24] <xevilstar> ihateAdmins: lightdm.... are you using a pi ?
1913 [16:36:34] <ihateAdmins> no debian on pc
1914 [16:36:46] <ihateAdmins> lightdm is the login service
1915 [16:36:49] <ihateAdmins> xfce
1916 [16:36:58] <Tenkawa> ihateAdmins: did you add something to .xinitrc?
1917 [16:37:28] <Tenkawa> sounds like something is immediately logging you back out
1918 [16:37:46] <Tenkawa> in your homedir
1919 [16:37:56] <Tenkawa> for that user
1920 [16:38:11] <Tenkawa> check that users homedir for anything .x*
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1922 [16:38:41] <Tenkawa> make sure they havent been modified recently
1923 [16:38:42] <jelly> ihateAdmins: also, create a fresh new normal user and try to log in as that one
1924 [16:38:55] <Tenkawa> indeed.. what jelly saod
1925 [16:38:59] <Tenkawa> er said
1926 [16:39:02] <greycat> I would expect lightdm to process .xsession but not .xinitrc, but who knows.
1927 [16:39:11] <jelly> problematic user's ~/.xsession-errors might have clues, but it also has lots of junk
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1931 [16:41:12] * Tenkawa tries to figure out what to do with an extra LVM external drive
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1934 [16:43:38] <ihateAdmins> i deleted that user and created a new one, i tried to login with that one and the same issue occurs it won't let me to xfce(only root works)
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1936 [16:44:09] <greycat> look for .xsession-errors in that user's home dir
1937 [16:44:18] <annadane> stupid idea but try from the lightdm dropdown menu selecting "xfce session" instead of default session or whatever it's called
1938 [16:44:27] <annadane> but yes also see .xsession-errors
1939 [16:44:44] <annadane> i just know for me xfce has been finnicky and that's solved it
1940 [16:45:10] <Tenkawa> can linux's lvm not do block level cloning? only filsystem lel?
1941 [16:45:15] <Tenkawa> er level
1942 [16:45:48] <jelly> Tenkawa: lvm does not do filesystem anything.
1943 [16:46:04] <Tenkawa> bummer
1944 [16:46:08] <Tenkawa> oh well
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1946 [16:46:17] <jelly> it only deals with slicing and dicing block devices.
1947 [16:46:34] <Tenkawa> actually thats not 100% true
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1949 [16:46:50] <jelly> Tenkawa: what are you trying to do?
1950 [16:47:54] <Tenkawa> add a second drive into a volume group.. extend the pvs.. and detach them to have it be its backup
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1952 [16:48:21] <Tenkawa> thats the way it was done back in original LVM implemtation
1953 [16:48:36] <Tenkawa> er implementation
1954 [16:48:54] <Tenkawa> wow my spelling reaks today
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1956 [16:49:05] <jelly> you want to create a backup of the whole VG, all LVs on it?
1957 [16:49:13] <Tenkawa> yep
1958 [16:49:41] <Tenkawa> I cant find any way in the docs to pause/snapshot the lvs
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1960 [16:50:03] <jelly> snapshots / clones are created using lvcreate.
1961 [16:50:04] <Tenkawa> for the current way without creating temporary ones
1962 [16:50:09] <Tenkawa> yeah
1963 [16:50:17] <Tenkawa> which uses up tons of space
1964 [16:50:42] <jelly> it uses exactly the amount of space you tell it, or 100%
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1966 [16:51:09] <Tenkawa> these unfortunately are huge
1967 [16:51:29] <Tenkawa> compared to the backup vg
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1969 [16:52:06] <Tenkawa> on to plan 2... rsync to a 4 times a large array
1970 [16:52:12] <Tenkawa> heheheh
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1972 [16:52:41] <Tenkawa> after lunch
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1974 [16:52:50] <Tenkawa> bbialw.. cheers
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1998 [17:06:44] <rant> xevilstar: she's is, but thats not why I see her. :P So what was the issue after you compiled the module?
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2000 [17:07:20] <xevilstar> memory leak
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2002 [17:07:34] <xevilstar> do you want some logs and the makefile ?
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2004 [17:07:58] <rant> xevilstar: how were you using it, just dropped it in along with the debian package or did you use it with the rest of what you compiled or what?
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2006 [17:08:17] <xevilstar> I have installed all the debs
2007 [17:08:26] <xevilstar> then downloaded the corresponding source
2008 [17:08:50] <rant> xevilstar: so you compiled the java module with the debian source or the upstream source?
2009 [17:08:57] <xevilstar> fixed the Makefile in order to find the headers and the jvm libs
2010 [17:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1501
2011 [17:09:06] <xevilstar> compiled it without errors
2012 [17:09:14] <xevilstar> and moved it to the modules dir
2013 [17:09:17] <rant> cause what I grabbed was the latest from github.. I was trying to gather why its not been packaged anymore
2014 [17:09:35] <xevilstar> then configured it in the kamailio.cfg
2015 [17:09:35] *** Quits: dasshankh (~alphakhag@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016 [17:09:42] <rant> other than the makefile I haven't seen any reason it shouldnt still build on buster
2017 [17:09:52] *** Quits: GyroW (~GyroW@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2018 [17:10:25] *** Joins: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip )
2019 [17:10:26] <rant> the makefile of course needs the gcj thing set to no, and the paths for openjdk11 fixed
2020 [17:10:46] *** Joins: combro2k (~combro2k@replaced-ip )
2021 [17:10:54] <xevilstar> wait I dcc it to you in a sec
2022 [17:11:15] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023 [17:11:18] <rant> yeah I dont think a dcc will work and even if it did I haven't used that in like 30 years and never on this client so..
2024 [17:11:24] *** Quits: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2025 [17:11:39] *** Joins: dasshankh (~alphakhag@replaced-ip )
2026 [17:11:50] <xevilstar> I am sending
2027 [17:12:03] *** Joins: tony_ (~tony@replaced-ip )
2028 [17:12:04] <xevilstar> else pm me where you prefer it to be
2029 [17:12:06] <xevilstar> :)
2030 [17:12:13] *** Joins: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip )
2031 [17:12:20] <xevilstar> (not pasting it to chan)
2032 [17:12:49] <rant> you can netcat it to termbin or put in on paste.debian.net
2033 [17:13:01] *** Quits: Masterph_ (~Masterphi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ZZZZzzzzz)
2034 [17:13:02] *** tony_ is now known as miracleTurtle
2035 [17:13:06] *** Quits: HeXiLeD (~grumpy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2036 [17:13:08] <rant> cat MakeFile | nc termbin.com 9999
2037 [17:13:08] <xevilstar> pastebin will be then
2038 [17:14:00] *** Joins: Cathlenedaj7 (~Rachael43@replaced-ip )
2039 [17:14:02] <rant> xevilstar: but what I asked was, which source were you using? The debian source? From buster? sid? from that upstream repo? from the git?
2040 [17:14:04] *** Joins: jelly (jelly@replaced-ip )
2041 [17:14:08] *** Joins: HeXiLeD (~grumpy@replaced-ip )
2042 [17:14:26] <xevilstar> rant replaced-url
2043 [17:14:31] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
2044 [17:14:58] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2045 [17:15:01] <rant> replaced-url
2046 [17:15:17] <xevilstar> both sources the debian buster one and the /usr/src/kamailio-5.2.3+buster one both same results with the corresponding debs
2047 [17:15:42] <xevilstar> no rant you cannot compile the git source it has a different mayor and minor version
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2050 [17:15:42] *** Joins: GyroW (~GyroW@replaced-ip )
2051 [17:15:53] <xevilstar> the modules will not work
2052 [17:16:01] *** Quits: dasshankh (~alphakhag@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2053 [17:16:25] <rant> thats what I'm asking :D which version you used and which you compiled java module from
2054 [17:16:28] *** Joins: choice (~choice@replaced-ip )
2055 [17:16:31] <choice> Hello! When I am root, how do I ran a programm as another user?
2056 [17:16:47] <rant> I wanted to see if the latest upstream would build on buster.. to find out why it is no longer there
2057 [17:16:59] <jelly> choice: the command "su" can be used.
2058 [17:17:00] <xevilstar> choice: man su
2059 [17:17:15] <diogenes_> choice, su username
2060 [17:17:27] <choice> jelly: Let me try that ...
2061 [17:17:28] <jelly> # su - jelly -c 'who am i'
2062 [17:17:52] * greycat does not like the direction this is heading
2063 [17:18:01] <rant> heh
2064 [17:18:11] <xevilstar> rant: ok I am giving you the repos
2065 [17:18:11] <xevilstar> deb replaced-url
2066 [17:18:11] <xevilstar> deb [arch=amd64] replaced-url
2067 [17:18:16] <choice> "su joe libreoffice" gives me "/usr/bin/libreoffice: line 175: /mnt/e/data/my/tasks/oosplash: No such file or directory"
2068 [17:18:21] <greycat> experimental?!
2069 [17:18:30] <xevilstar> oh shit
2070 [17:18:39] <xevilstar> cat my client
2071 [17:18:42] <xevilstar> not the server
2072 [17:18:46] <xevilstar> wrong terminal sorry
2073 [17:18:53] <jelly> choice: run libreoffice as normal user, not as root.
2074 [17:19:11] <jelly> choice: open a different terminal if you need to
2075 [17:19:18] <choice> This seems to work: sudo -H -u user libreoffice
2076 [17:19:21] *** Joins: Brigo_ (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
2077 [17:19:41] <jelly> yeah, don't run gui stuff via su.
2078 [17:19:41] <xevilstar> rant:
2079 [17:19:41] <xevilstar> deb replaced-url
2080 [17:19:41] <xevilstar> deb-src replaced-url
2081 [17:20:07] <xevilstar> greycat: on my personal client workstation i like to be on the bleeding edge
2082 [17:20:13] <jelly> xevilstar: what's wrong with replaced-url
2083 [17:20:19] <e> you really ought not to run things as non-root attached to a root tty :)
2084 [17:20:25] <xevilstar> jelly: nothing
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2086 [17:20:29] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
2087 [17:20:46] <jelly> e: some of us run grsecurity kernels that disable silly tty ioctls!
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2090 [17:20:53] *** integral_ is now known as integral
2091 [17:21:22] <e> fair enough
2092 [17:21:30] <rant> greycat: you may have missed this earlier but the issue is that this user wants kamailio-java-module which was available up to stretch, and is in sid but only for two unoffcial ports hppa & sh4 its unknown as of yet why they stopped packaging this module but it had used gcj which is no longer in debian's gcc, but a simple setting gcj=no in the makefile and tweaing the openjdk11 paths makes it build on buster
2093 [17:21:36] <rant> it would seem
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2095 [17:22:20] <xevilstar> problem being that it crashes kamailio creating a memory leak
2096 [17:22:47] *** Joins: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip )
2097 [17:22:57] <xevilstar> core> [core/route.c:872]: fix_actions(): fixing xlog()
2098 [17:22:57] <xevilstar> May 31 15:15:03 PROXY-TEST-01 /usr/sbin/kamailio[16509]: CRITICAL: <core> [core/mem/q_malloc.c:144]: qm_debug_check_frag(): BUG: qm: prev. fragm. tail overwritten(55c775816cd0, abcdefed)[0x7f64aa9c9d80:0x7f64aa9c9db8]! Memory allocator was called from xlog: xlog.c:498. Fragment marked by core: db_res.c:88. Exec from core/mem/q_malloc.c:384
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2104 [17:24:34] <xevilstar> rant: got the paste ?
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2108 [17:27:07] <rant> xevilstar: yeah well I dont have a clue what to do with this program in the first place.. I was merely trying to see if this module would build on buster and trying to see if I could find any info either in Debian or upstream as to why its broken.. the code /has/ been modified recently for some memory macros about 5 months ago
2109 [17:27:29] *** Quits: choice (~choice@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2110 [17:27:30] <rant> xevilstar: thats why I was pressing on what version you were using specifically
2111 [17:27:53] <xevilstar> replaced-url
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2113 [17:28:05] <rant> I see nowhere anyone saying definitively "this" is why we stopped packaging this module
2114 [17:28:19] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2115 [17:28:25] <greycat> what's the package name?
2116 [17:28:39] <xevilstar> rant: sadly my boss wants it else will have me for dinner
2117 [17:28:43] <xevilstar> kindof
2118 [17:28:47] <xevilstar> :)
2119 [17:29:10] <xevilstar> greycat: kamailio-java-something
2120 [17:29:21] <rant> greycat: it was kamilio-java-modules replaced-url
2121 [17:29:55] <rant> greycat: the sid version of it is only for two unofficial ports and the version is older than buster's version of kamailio
2122 [17:30:00] <greycat> wow, replaced-url
2123 [17:30:23] <greycat> oh. you didn't give me the real name. :(
2124 [17:30:36] <greycat> replaced-url
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2126 [17:31:58] <greycat> ah, this is a source package that builds a *shitload* of binary packages for different languages, and you're asking about just one of those binary packages...
2127 [17:32:09] <xevilstar> yes
2128 [17:32:13] <xevilstar> exactly
2129 [17:32:14] <yogurt2ungue> /msg dpkg jessie->stretch
2130 [17:32:25] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip )
2131 [17:32:34] <xevilstar> greycat: crazy life isn't it ?
2132 [17:32:54] * rant thinks greycat has me ignore in #debian :P
2133 [17:33:15] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2134 [17:33:17] <greycat> rant: no
2135 [17:33:36] *** Joins: woenx (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2136 [17:33:42] <greycat> but xevilstar gave the wrong pkg name first and I started pursuing that one before I saw your correction
2137 [17:33:59] <xevilstar> greycat: sorry
2138 [17:34:16] <xevilstar> facepalm
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2142 [17:34:54] <rant> I was unable to find any documented reason why this one module was no longer included.. only issues I seen is the loss of the gcj thing and some simple changes to the MakeFile for this module fixes that problem
2143 [17:35:13] <greycat> pick any one of the remaining kamailio* packages, grab the Debian changelog and try to find a place where they talk about no longer building/shipping the -java-* pieces
2144 [17:35:30] <greycat> if it's not in the Debian changelog, look for a bug report
2145 [17:35:33] *** Joins: Masterph_ (~Masterphi@replaced-ip )
2146 [17:35:37] <xevilstar> rant: and the ..-. --- -..- - .-. --- - / ..- -. .. ..-. --- .-. -- / -.-. .... .- .-. .-.. .. . / -.- .. .-.. --- ing reason is ..... gcj has been removed
2147 [17:35:49] <xevilstar> that package requires gcj
2148 [17:36:12] <xevilstar> I managed to tweak the makefile into using openjdk as you can see in the paste
2149 [17:36:13] *** Quits: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2152 [17:37:01] <rant> I'll be honest, idk wtf gcj is, just that we dont have it anymore.. heh.. if I wouldn't even let an employer say ja-- before my desk was vacant and I was nowhere to be found..
2153 [17:37:18] <greycat> gcj is like gcc but it compiles Java instead of C
2154 [17:37:52] <rant> but near as I can tell the module builds without it if you install openjdk11 set gcj=no in the makefile and tweak the java paths a bit
2155 [17:38:03] *** Quits: agowa338 (~agowa338@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2156 [17:38:30] <xevilstar> greycat: gcj is dead
2157 [17:39:03] <greycat> I wish all of Java were dead, but the headless chicken keeps running around and crashing into things.
2158 [17:39:23] <xevilstar> rant: clues ?
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2160 [17:39:47] *** Joins: agowa338 (~agowa338@replaced-ip )
2161 [17:39:53] <rant> xevilstar: idk greycat had a good point about the changelogs.. I checked bts and tracker I didnt get around to grepping the changelog before I left
2162 [17:40:45] <xevilstar> rant: btw the crashlog says ........ core> [core/route.c:872]: fix_actions(): fixing xlog()
2163 [17:40:45] <xevilstar> May 31 15:15:03 PROXY-TEST-01 /usr/sbin/kamailio[16509]: CRITICAL: <core> [core/mem/q_malloc.c:144]: qm_debug_check_frag(): BUG: qm: prev. fragm. tail overwritten(55c775816cd0, abcdefed)[0x7f64aa9c9d80:0x7f64aa9c9db8]! Memory allocator was called from xlog: xlog.c:498. Fragment marked by core: db_res.c:88. Exec from core/mem/q_malloc.c:384.
2164 [17:40:51] *** Joins: peltre (sid268329@replaced-ip )
2165 [17:40:57] *** Quits: miracleTurtle (~tony@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2166 [17:41:07] <xevilstar> malloc = memory leak
2167 [17:41:17] <rant> on the one hand, the popcon score is low, and that codebase hasn't changed much in years other than one fairly recent change.. but I'd think if people were using this they'd have to have realized these issues, and when I went looking for alternatives this kamilio thing was the top recommended thing to use so idk..
2168 [17:42:08] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2169 [17:42:10] <rant> I would assume this java module is just to be able to code around this server in java.. which I'd rather have a colonoscopy than do that
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2172 [17:42:31] <xevilstar> thanks guys think it's time for me go home and enjoy some weekend... hope I will see you on Monday
2173 [17:42:33] <xevilstar> :)
2174 [17:43:30] <rant> ,bug 892538
2175 [17:43:31] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2176 [17:43:39] <rant> ,bug 893701
2177 [17:43:40] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2178 [17:43:49] *** Quits: Namber (~luca@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2179 [17:44:12] <xevilstar> if you have any clues comment/vote on this bug replaced-url
2180 [17:44:20] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2181 [17:44:33] <rant> looks like thats why it was removed.. which I don't get.. cause I'm not a java developer and the thing seemed like it could compile on openjdk already with very minor makefile tweaks
2182 [17:44:41] <greycat> sounds like it needs someone who knows Java to help port it to OpenJDK
2183 [17:44:56] <xevilstar> judd: that is not the problem the problem is the memory leak after install
2184 [17:45:03] *** Quits: Fiducatus1 (~Fiducatus@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2185 [17:45:06] <xevilstar> ok /me goes afk
2186 [17:45:15] *** Quits: xevilstar (~xevilstar@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
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2202 [17:52:14] <rant> he needs to use stretch for the time being with the upstream deb repo, and then either get comfortable with maintaining that, or come up with a long-term plan to migrate away from the java module or to work out the bugs with it on openjdk.
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2205 [17:53:11] <rant> cause really the crux of his issue was needing kamailio 5 and for w/e reason apparently upgraded to buster to try achieve this only to realize there was no java module on buster cause stretch is the last release to have gcj-jre
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2216 [17:55:11] <rant> heh.. I just did something really stupid..
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2218 [17:55:33] <greycat> touched java? :)
2219 [17:55:45] <rant> na way worse.. I just removed nearly all my system
2220 [17:56:00] <rant> cause I didnt pay attention before confirming what apt was doing
2221 [17:56:08] <rant> thats pretty annoying
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2224 [17:57:48] <magic_ninja> can anyone suggest a good wifi dongle.
2225 [17:57:59] <magic_ninja> I can't find good drives for this one. I built a set but they keep crashing.
2226 [17:58:21] <petn-randall> magic_ninja: Depends on what you plan on doing with it.
2227 [17:58:39] <rant> well I may be exaggerating a tad.. I just removed 176 packages.. and at leas half of them I didnt intend to remove
2228 [17:59:03] <petn-randall> and how much you're willing to spend. IIRC Mediatek has some problematic/unsupported chipsets, so I'd avoid them if possible.
2229 [17:59:07] <greycat> as long as you can put them back, it's not a grave error
2230 [17:59:31] <rant> yeah.. I got a laptop with dual batteries and a log of what happened.. its reversible
2231 [17:59:48] *** Quits: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2232 [17:59:52] <rant> but can't think of how to do it putting things back to their original state.. they'll all be manually installed now
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2235 [18:01:26] <petn-randall> rant: You can always mark them as installed "automatically" with aptitude.
2236 [18:01:58] <ihateAdmins> i ran a useful command in ssh and it affected a bunch of packages as well as network-manager now it is broken... the sad thing isn't to fix it, but to remember what it was for
2237 [18:02:40] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2238 [18:03:50] <jelly> rant: or apt-mark
2239 [18:04:02] *** Joins: dasshankh (~alphakhag@replaced-ip )
2240 [18:04:06] <jelly> in case you do not have aptitude installed for some reason
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2244 [18:05:07] <ihateAdmins> is there a log file which shows the used commands?
2245 [18:05:29] <greycat> Not *all* of them, no. What are you actually looking for?
2246 [18:06:15] <ihateAdmins> i want to know my latest command in ssh it broke my network-manager package and therefore ssh and vnc, i need to know what the command was
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2248 [18:06:50] <greycat> if you were ssh'ed into system A with an interactive, shell, then it's probably in your .bash_history on system A
2249 [18:06:57] *** Joins: brabo (~brabo@replaced-ip )
2250 [18:07:00] <greycat> assuming you logged out of A at some point
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2254 [18:07:55] <greycat> if you haven't logged out of that session yet, then you can use the 'history' command inside the shell inside that session
2255 [18:08:09] <brabo> good day to all. i wanted to try out netsurf and to my surprise i see it is in jessie and sid, but not in buster. is there any particular reason? will it come to buster too?
2256 [18:08:23] <jelly> dpkg, why is netsurf not in testing
2257 [18:08:24] <dpkg> netsurf is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
2258 [18:08:41] <ihateAdmins> that session is gone, i restarted it after the pc wasn't responding and .bash_history doesn't show it
2259 [18:08:43] <brabo> jelly: ah thanks!
2260 [18:08:52] <jelly> brabo: probably "no security support and known security issues"
2261 [18:09:15] <greycat> ihateAdmins: if the system crashed or if bash was killed by -9 or something, then the command may not have made it into history
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2265 [18:11:27] <brabo> jelly: aah and i also spot buster should be in freeze now, i was not aware :)
2266 [18:11:29] <ihateAdmins> well i have to fix network-manager without wlan connection, i copied Networkmanager from git and have it on a usb, but there is no installation guide or deb file
2267 [18:11:43] <BazookaTooth> exit
2268 [18:11:44] <rant> jelly: is that a plugin or a factoid with argument variables?
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2270 [18:12:27] <greycat> buster has been in full freeze for a while now
2271 [18:13:16] <brabo> i haven't been spending much time behind computers lately so it went unnoticed for me until now ;)
2272 [18:14:41] <brabo> thanks for the infos!
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2274 [18:15:12] *** sentriz is now known as sandwhich
2275 [18:15:21] <jelly> rant: factoid
2276 [18:15:28] *** sandwhich is now known as sentriz
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2278 [18:15:39] <rant> brabo: it was announced over a year ago
2279 [18:15:56] <jelly> dpkg: literal CMD: why is (.*?) not in testing
2280 [18:15:56] <dpkg> "cmd: why is (.*?) not in testing" is "($1): $1 is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
2281 [18:16:11] <rant> ah.. I had done:
2282 [18:16:16] <rant> /msg dpkg literal cmd: why is (.*?) not in (.*?)
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2295 [18:20:49] <stefanos82> greetings everyone. those of you who use Debian as your server of choice, both for bare metal and VPS, what are the steps you usually follow to secure it as much as possible? I'm interested in security in general. Please advice, thank you.
2296 [18:21:04] <cbilt> ihateAdmins: i remember ceptor had some success with this problem
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2299 [18:22:26] <ihateAdmins> Well i tried setting up wlan0 first with net-setup which is not existing and second manually with wpa_passphrase ... but dhcpcd isn't installed
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2303 [18:25:07] <ihateAdmins> this is giving me quiet a headache now, i was almost finished and was finally getting to install gpu drivers..
2304 [18:25:20] <cbilt> don't you have cablez
2305 [18:25:26] <ihateAdmins> no
2306 [18:25:33] <ihateAdmins> everything but lan
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2308 [18:27:24] <ihateAdmins> im trying it with the network-manager.deb now
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2311 [18:28:12] <Tom-_> stefanos82, maybe try replaced-url
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2313 [18:28:34] <ksk> stefanos82: these kind of questios (some ask them from time to time) do not really fit the scope of this channel, nor do I know of something that you could read and be good.
2314 [18:28:53] <stefanos82> Tom-_: thank you for the link.
2315 [18:28:56] <ksk> stefanos82: disabling password login for ssh is always a good Ide though.
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2318 [18:29:12] <stefanos82> ksk: well, I have an experience around security, but want to know more
2319 [18:30:34] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: Not running ssh on port 22 (or 222) is a good idea. There are lots of little things like that. You could look around for server hardening guides.
2320 [18:30:37] <stefanos82> I was asked to set up a VPS for a candidate customer and wanted to know whether the steps I already follow are decent enough to configure a VPS to work without much hiccups
2321 [18:30:38] <cbilt> for me it's important to allow root login over ssh
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2323 [18:31:15] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: It really depends a lot on usage. Are there going to be multiple semi-trusted shell users, or only a couple of admins and a web site?
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2326 [18:32:22] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: most of the time, I read articles and watch conference videos that divide the community in two battlefields: those who say there's no need to change the default port of SSH and those who insist on changing it to something else than the default. I tend to agree with both, depending on each side's justification
2327 [18:33:31] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: your last question is indeed a very nice one, thank you. The customer will definitely need to have some sFTP access (mind the lower 's' I used here)
2328 [18:33:34] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: If you have a server on the internet with ssh listening on port 22, you will get DOS attacks. That's just a fact of modern life.
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2330 [18:34:01] <ksk> jhutchins_wk: I would disagree on that last statement ;)
2331 [18:34:07] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: If you move the port, you're still vulnerable to port scanners, but you are a lower-yeild target because you've obviously done at least basic hardening.
2332 [18:34:15] *** Quits: TheWizard (~thewizard@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium ##replaced-url
2333 [18:34:31] <stefanos82> the thing is, if I secure it with SSH key, then what should be the ideal use to allow the user to access his or her sFTP account without needing to worry about the key?
2334 [18:35:03] <ksk> also nice: someone stated on twitter there is a remote code execution bug in nginx. CVE and patches pending..
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2339 [18:35:41] <ihateAdmins> so how do i get a wlan connection without network-manager and no internet on that machine?
2340 [18:35:41] <ksk> stefanos82: they would need a key then to use sftp. "winscp" on windows can do that for example, if you have windows users. if not, its even easier I suppose.
2341 [18:35:56] <nimba> Hi. How can I disable the screen magnification feature that is bound to Alt-mouseScrollWheel in Xfce with composite on?
2342 [18:36:06] <cbilt> ihateAdmins: replaced-url
2343 [18:36:06] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: true. also fail2ban does some kind of protection, I have to admit. Not everyone like it, but it does work most of the time
2344 [18:36:11] <jhutchins_wk> ihateAdmins: Static configuration in /etc/network/interfaces
2345 [18:36:15] <jhutchins_wk> !interfaces
2346 [18:36:16] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
2347 [18:36:18] <ksk> ihateAdmins: replaced-url
2348 [18:36:46] <jhutchins_wk> !wpa_supplicant
2349 [18:36:46] <dpkg> Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) is a wireless encryption standard. A WPA supplicant for Debian systems is in the wpasupplicant package, read /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian.gz to configure (especially "Troubleshooting" for association to hidden SSIDs). Since Debian 7 "Wheezy", it is possible to install Debian over a WPA-protected network. replaced-url
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2351 [18:36:52] <ksk> ihateAdmins: iirc you need to put your wifi password into some hashing foo, and put that into a config. see the link..
2352 [18:36:53] <stefanos82> ksk: what worries me is the coming request which I'm 1000% sure they will ask me: how about cPanel?
2353 [18:37:05] <ksk> stefanos82: how about no? :D
2354 [18:37:17] <stefanos82> ksk: yeah lol that would be hilarious
2355 [18:37:22] <jhutchins_wk> !webmin
2356 [18:37:22] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
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2358 [18:37:31] <ihateAdmins> i did install the drivers and as i wrote before i tried it with wpa_supplicant but it didn't work
2359 [18:37:32] <ksk> if you have administrators, which are worth that term, you dont want to have cPanel or the likes I would say.
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2361 [18:37:49] <ksk> ihateAdmins: "did not work" is not too helpful.
2362 [18:38:05] <stefanos82> ksk: the user(s) will need to use the sFTP as they have requested it
2363 [18:38:08] <stefanos82> WordPress you know...
2364 [18:38:10] <stefanos82> don't ask
2365 [18:38:32] <ihateAdmins> well it is successfully initalized, but i need a ip, but dhcpcd isn't installed
2366 [18:38:33] <ksk> stefanos82: no problem with sFTP as far as Im concerned ( not sure how WP does fit in here though..)
2367 [18:38:45] <ksk> ihateAdmins: then configure an IP?
2368 [18:38:50] <stefanos82> ksk: for sFTP uploads of theirs
2369 [18:39:13] <stefanos82> I didn't bother asking too many questions so I could avoid the unnecessary headaches
2370 [18:39:13] <jhutchins_wk> ihateAdmins: Either assign a static IP that isn't in use, or install dhclient.
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2372 [18:39:58] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: Once you get WP and WP-CLI working, they shouldn't need sFTP. WP handles uploads on it's own.
2373 [18:40:46] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: personally I use WP-CLI as I find it way better to control my environment, but I need to respect a customer's request
2374 [18:40:54] <stefanos82> and I need to secure them as much as possible
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2376 [18:41:31] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: They should be able to manage it entirely from the WP Admin system. This is something that's evolved, so they may have outdated expectations.
2377 [18:41:59] <ihateAdmins> dhclient did stop at dhcprelease and how would i setup a static ip?
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2380 [18:42:52] <jhutchins_wk> !networking
2381 [18:42:52] <dpkg> For basic networking, «man interfaces» and see replaced-url
2382 [18:43:08] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: very nice. so your suggestion would be to avoid giving them access to sFTP?
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2386 [18:43:42] <stefanos82> how about project collaboration I have with a business partner? How can he access the VPS since I have the original SSH keys?
2387 [18:43:44] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: Well, I think I might go ahead and set it up because they expect it, but you might be able to remove it or at least not have to maintain it.
2388 [18:43:47] <ihateAdmins> well iface isn't even installed
2389 [18:44:09] <jhutchins_wk> stefanos82: Either set up an account for him or share the keys.
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2392 [18:44:45] <jhutchins_wk> ihateAdmins: Is this some sort of "cloud" server?
2393 [18:44:52] <stefanos82> jhutchins_wk: I could setup the sFTP, no worries, but that would mean no SSH keys for the sake of customer convenience; guess who's going to hear the nagging afterwards lol!
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2395 [18:45:19] <ihateAdmins> it's my second pc next to me i only have wireless adapters and it was all fine until network-manager decided to go corrupt
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2414 [18:55:59] <ihateAdmins> would it be possible to fix it with livecd chroot?
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2418 [18:58:22] <milkt> ihateAdmins: why don't you reinstall network-manager
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2422 [18:58:59] <ihateAdmins> because it is broken, so i don't have internet for it and the deb file i downloaded needs dependecies which i can't get because of no connection
2423 [18:59:00] <greycat> maybe they hate managers too?
2424 [19:00:32] <milkt> i guess you have physical access, get .deb files from other device, then transfer it
2425 [19:01:11] <ihateAdmins> i did, but as i said it need a lot of other debs then as well and only if im lucky i will eventually have installed all debs
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2427 [19:02:15] <ihateAdmins> i would have to get all those requirments and maybe they do have requirments as well so... replaced-url
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2432 [19:03:07] <mandala> zxrf:
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2442 [19:05:26] <milkt> ihateAdmins: apt-cache depends --recurse --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces --no-enhances --no-pre-depends network-manager | grep "^\w", will give you all dependency list, as far as i know
2443 [19:05:44] <ihateAdmins> ok livecd does work maybe it will save me, before i have to reinstall the os
2444 [19:05:45] <greycat> woah, apt-cache --recurse?
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2446 [19:06:12] <ihateAdmins> well either way i would have to download every single package on my usb for that
2447 [19:06:21] <ihateAdmins> im trying to fix it with chroot
2448 [19:06:37] <greycat> damn, that's been in since at least wheezy and I never knew about it
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2452 [19:07:24] <magic_ninja> Turns out the wireless adapter is the USB port.
2453 [19:07:34] <magic_ninja> I switched up ports and it is working fine now.
2454 [19:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1507
2455 [19:09:22] <ihateAdmins> i wouldn't have think that i would have to fix sooo many issues in debian... kali doesn't give me any issue at all and gentoo was even less problematic
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2459 [19:10:44] <magic_ninja> debian isn't necessarily configured like those versions.
2460 [19:11:12] <ihateAdmins> i never said that, of course i use debian handbook/wiki tutorials
2461 [19:12:34] <ksk> ihateAdmins: you are not able to setup a static IP address for your wireless interface? ( I did skip some lines..)
2462 [19:12:43] *** Quits: CrystalMath (~coderain@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Support Free Software - ##replaced-url
2463 [19:13:12] <ksk> also, if you did choose a "desktop" in the installert, I suppose it would have installed dhcp and the likes?
2464 [19:13:14] <ihateAdmins> no i couldn't well i'm currently fixing it with chroot so i will reply sooner or later
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2470 [19:17:48] <ihateAdmins> allright im safe
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2472 [19:18:42] <ihateAdmins> and i was worrying that i would have to install gentoo now =(
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2485 [19:22:10] <demo> hi
2486 [19:22:14] <demo> i need help
2487 [19:22:29] <ihateAdmins> just ask your question :)
2488 [19:22:31] <dvs> !ask
2489 [19:22:31] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2490 [19:22:55] <demo> I was trying to install mx linux and selected erase entire disk but it got failed
2491 [19:23:13] <demo> now getting system boot fail
2492 [19:23:20] <ihateAdmins> is that debian related..?^^
2493 [19:23:28] <demo> yes
2494 [19:23:31] <demo> mx linux
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2498 [19:23:36] <dvs> !mxlinux
2499 [19:23:37] <dpkg> Current MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at replaced-url
2500 [19:23:52] <demo> can some one help
2501 [19:24:15] <zamuro> !help
2502 [19:24:26] <annadane> we don't support mx linux here, unfortunately, as it isn't debian
2503 [19:24:35] <annadane> you may try what dpkg linked or ask ##linux
2504 [19:25:01] <ihateAdmins> if you are setting up your linux look for youtube tutorials or even better the official handbooks
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2506 [19:25:19] <demo> i just selected erase dist
2507 [19:25:20] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2508 [19:25:23] <demo> disk
2509 [19:25:34] <demo> but it is failng
2510 [19:25:48] <dvs> you're not getting help for MXLinux here.
2511 [19:26:02] <demo> wtf
2512 [19:26:06] <ihateAdmins> as said before we can't really help you it's not debian and i can't really help you like that if i don't even know what you mean
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2514 [19:26:09] <annadane> !based on debian
2515 [19:26:09] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
2516 [19:26:12] <demo> it is debian
2517 [19:26:19] <dvs> no, it's not
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2519 [19:26:48] <demo> lol
2520 [19:26:50] <ihateAdmins> demo if you really want help try to provide more information
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2523 [19:27:27] <annadane> no, do not provide more information. support for it isn't given here
2524 [19:27:41] <demo> i selected auto install using entier disk in mx linux installer
2525 [19:27:49] <ihateAdmins> is that a rule? Like would i not be allowed to answer?
2526 [19:28:00] <dvs> ihateAdmins, not in here
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2529 [19:28:36] <milkt> demo: are you getting any error message?
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2531 [19:28:43] <ihateAdmins> demo go and lookup for some tutorials for that and sry but if it's about the installation you really need to stick to tutorials and handbooks you won't get support for that from anywhere
2532 [19:29:04] <milkt> try debian installer then people here can help i guess
2533 [19:29:08] <greycat> the installer is one of the most uniquely customized pieces of a distro
2534 [19:29:17] <demo> ok
2535 [19:29:22] <greycat> nobody in #debian can help you with any other distro's installer
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2537 [19:29:36] <ihateAdmins> !rules
2538 [19:29:37] <dpkg> 1) Don't ask to ask. Just state your problem, 2) Don't repeat until 10 mins after, 3) Read and re-read the docs first, then admit it if you REALLY don't understand. You're wasting your time and ours if you haven't at least tried. 4) If your problem ain't solved, come back in 12 hrs or 24 hrs later. We're very international. 5) Be polite and patient. 6) #debian supports only Debian (see <based on debian>)
2539 [19:29:37] <demo> will see video now
2540 [19:29:52] <ihateAdmins> !based
2541 [19:30:01] <ihateAdmins> !based on debian
2542 [19:30:02] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
2543 [19:30:10] <annadane> feel free to /msg dpkg, to avoid spam
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2546 [19:30:40] <zamuro> ihateAdmins having fun with the bot?
2547 [19:30:52] <ihateAdmins> i was just looking 2 things up lol
2548 [19:30:56] <annadane> i blame that person who said "wow it's so quiet in here"
2549 [19:30:57] <greycat> wooledg:~$ env UID=42 bash -c 'echo "$UID"'
2550 [19:30:57] <greycat> 42
2551 [19:31:01] <greycat> sorry, mischannel
2552 [19:31:02] <annadane> it's been downhill ever since
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2554 [19:32:10] <demo> which distro is suported here
2555 [19:32:11] <demo> ?
2556 [19:32:20] <ihateAdmins> DEBIAN :')
2557 [19:32:26] <dvs> just Debian
2558 [19:32:31] <dvs> pure Debian
2559 [19:32:34] <demo> deabian based ?
2560 [19:32:37] <dvs> no
2561 [19:32:57] <annadane> really, just debian. the problem with supporting alternative distributions is we have less experience using them and we can't really apply our experience to them, and doing so would only spam the channel for actual debian support questions
2562 [19:32:57] <ihateAdmins> dude you are asking for a mute lmao you broke multiple rules since you joined
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2579 [19:41:02] <dvs> evil twin!
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2581 [19:42:21] <ihateAdmins> ye what's with that?
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2588 [19:49:20] <ihateAdmins> well my network-manager is repaired, but my network-manager-applet in the task bar disappeared
2589 [19:49:23] <ihateAdmins> how do i repair that?
2590 [19:50:42] <diogenes_> nm-applet
2591 [19:51:13] <ihateAdmins> doesn't exist
2592 [19:51:33] <diogenes_> what DE?
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2594 [19:51:52] <ihateAdmins> the newest streched
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2596 [19:52:04] <greycat> ihateAdmins: someone asked about that earliner in the week, and they seemed happy with network-manager-gnome
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2599 [19:52:21] <diogenes_> ihateAdmins, DE = Desktop Environment
2600 [19:52:26] <ihateAdmins> well im running on xfce, won't that cause issues?
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2602 [19:52:33] <greycat> ihateAdmins: "what DE" means do you run GNOME, or KDE, or XFCE, or none of the above?
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2604 [19:52:48] <ihateAdmins> ah sry i thought "DE"stribution ; xfce
2605 [19:53:33] <diogenes_> ihateAdmins, run: sudo apt install network-manager network-manager-gnome
2606 [19:53:39] <diogenes_> then run: nm-applet in terminal
2607 [19:53:44] <diogenes_> and it should appear
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2609 [19:54:10] <diogenes_> but you need to add the plugin to the panel = Notification Area
2610 [19:55:19] <humpled> hmm
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2613 [19:55:56] <ihateAdmins> great it's fixed
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2615 [19:57:24] <ihateAdmins> i have 5 different ipv6 adresses assigned to the interface how do i remove them? It is not done by network-manager. I probably set it up when i was trying to fix the interface before...
2616 [19:57:49] <greycat> why bother to remove them? just leave it.
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2618 [19:58:34] <ihateAdmins> well you are right, but i don't like that text spam in ifconfig
2619 [19:59:04] <greycat> !hurts
2620 [19:59:42] <somiaj> ifconfig is depericated, using ip might be preferable.
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2622 [20:00:02] <somiaj> Though it will still list that info, just differently
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2627 [20:01:34] <greycat> dpkg, hurts is <reply>"Doctor, it hurts when I bend my arm this way!"
2628 [20:01:34] <dpkg> okay, greycat
2629 [20:01:45] <dvs> so don't bend that way!
2630 [20:01:58] <ihateAdmins> well i know.. but i like ifconfigs output more.. i will switch to ip sooner or later
2631 [20:02:08] <ihateAdmins> i was able to flush the adresses
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2636 [20:04:42] <ihateAdmins> nevermind after reconnecting the interface gets all the ipv6 back
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2646 [20:13:05] <khagan> i wanted to make my usb flash drive to be the os so i used unetbootin to make it a live usb disk so i can use it anywhere but when i rebooted it with usb drive it was saying that there was no root file is defined.am i doing something incorrectly??
2647 [20:13:42] <khagan> file system*
2648 [20:13:43] <milkt> !unetbootin
2649 [20:13:43] <dpkg> UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. replaced-url
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2652 [20:14:37] <khagan> so should i use rufus or lili??
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2654 [20:15:13] <ihateAdmins> use win32diskimager
2655 [20:15:19] <ihateAdmins> or on linux dd
2656 [20:15:48] <diogenes_> khagan, or etcher.
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2659 [20:16:47] <khagan> fine will try with those:)
2660 [20:16:48] <somiaj> You aren't clear what you are copying to the usb. But debian images can get mangled by unetbootin, rufus, lili, or anything else that claims to make usb bootable. Debian images are already bootable.
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2666 [20:18:39] <diogenes_> i guess even: sudo co debian.iso /dev/sdx
2667 [20:18:56] <diogenes_> cp*
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2670 [20:19:35] <somiaj> that is the suggested way for debian images, but the question was not clear on what 'make my usb flash drive the os', since there are many ways to goa bout this.
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2679 [20:29:42] <khagan> ya i am window guy just trying to make it work.but started with installing debian from usb drive(which i think could be done with done with unetbootin)..but then i think i shifted to making into make it a bootable debian usb(which was different if)which could be done with lili(unixstackexchange suggested that) which could be used from anywhere...so ya i was not sure what i was doing...
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2682 [20:30:51] <khagan> are you guys like the sadist elites or the not so sadist type??last ques before i am thrown out:) but it was fun
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2691 [20:33:26] <milkt> khagan: i'm not sure about what do you want to do exactly, but there is official bootable debian live image(not installer), or you can also install debian into usb memory drive
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2698 [20:40:56] <annadane> we're not sadist, we're pretty friendly... mostly
2699 [20:40:59] <somiaj> khagan: read the install guide, it gives you proper suggestions on how to copy a debian iso image to a usb drive. It suggest win32diskimager
2700 [20:43:08] <ihateAdmins> lol sadists on this irc nice one, if you aren't smart enough to lookup a simple youtube video than im sorry, but it's either too early or not ment for you
2701 [20:43:29] <greycat> also bear in mind that many of us have never written a CD from a Windows system, or have very limited experience in that area
2702 [20:43:39] <greycat> same for USB thingies
2703 [20:44:00] * greycat has to keep reminding himself that the kids these days don't write CDs regularly
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2709 [20:45:22] <khagan> annadane;ok:),others people:)i was watching youtube video(NOW) before you told me that...
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2713 [20:47:12] <somiaj> The one skill you should pick up early with debian is learning to read documentation, all this info is clearly presented in the install guide.
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2715 [20:48:06] <somiaj> replaced-url
2716 [20:48:45] <somiaj> (also documentation can seem daungthing at first, because it is listing all possible ways, which maybe more than your single use case)
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2719 [20:49:47] <khagan> ty somiaj
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2804 [21:33:05] <Neobenedict> is there a way to have multiple game servers invisibly appearing on the default port
2805 [21:33:15] <Neobenedict> eg. with nginx subdomains
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2807 [21:33:36] <greycat> So many questions... let's start with "what does invisibly appearing mean".
2808 [21:34:39] <Neobenedict> here i have two minecraft servers
2809 [21:34:42] <Neobenedict> one IP address
2810 [21:34:53] <Neobenedict> I want people to type mc1.server.com and mc2.server.com
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2812 [21:35:05] <Neobenedict> not mc.server.com:25565 mc.server.com:25575
2813 [21:35:22] <greycat> I don't know anything about minecraft. I'm *guessing* this is not going to be possible.
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2815 [21:35:58] <Neobenedict> theres no iptables/nginx fuckery that can do it without extra ipv4
2816 [21:37:00] <vishal> not sure where ngnix comes into the picture for a minecraft server, but if it is, reverse proxy to a different port?
2817 [21:37:24] <Neobenedict> well nginx can definitely do "subdomains" but i dont know at what level that falls
2818 [21:37:30] <greycat> someone with knowledge of how minecraft works would have to assist you
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2820 [21:37:41] <Neobenedict> if the subdomain resolution is anything http related
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2822 [21:37:58] <Neobenedict> greycat: pretend it's ssh, ftp, etc
2823 [21:37:59] <Neobenedict> all the same
2824 [21:38:12] <greycat> if it's ssh then this is a hard NO, it will not work, period.
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2829 [21:38:25] <vishal> I doubt http is involved (I could be wrong). Any subdomain resolution would happen at the DNS level
2830 [21:38:26] <greycat> if the minecraft protocol operates over http then it's a whole different story
2831 [21:38:35] <Neobenedict> it does not
2832 [21:38:46] <Neobenedict> but if subdomain resolution happens before any http stuff
2833 [21:38:52] <Neobenedict> then it can be used as a reverse proxy
2834 [21:39:34] <Neobenedict> this is a question for #nginx
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2836 [21:40:03] <greycat> I doubt it
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2841 [21:41:34] <vishal> heh seems like minecraft can grok SRV records to get a port number
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2844 [21:42:10] <vishal> replaced-url
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2846 [21:44:29] <Neobenedict> vishal: is srv lookup client-sid
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2849 [21:44:38] <Neobenedict> client-side
2850 [21:46:21] <vishal> yes. but assuming your goal is for users to be able to specify {mc1,mc2}.something.com without providing a port, SRV records should accomplish that.
2851 [21:46:40] <vishal> Your actual servers would run on two different ports
2852 [21:46:54] <Neobenedict> good, and what about servers (csgo) that dont support srv?
2853 [21:47:01] <greycat> !xy
2854 [21:47:01] <Neobenedict> out of luck I guess
2855 [21:47:01] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
2856 [21:47:02] <vishal> :shrug:
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2858 [21:47:22] <Neobenedict> I was already aware of srv and planned to use it for minecraft but MC is the only thing that supports it it seems
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2861 [21:47:33] <greycat> *plonk*
2862 [21:47:38] <Neobenedict> I was hoping for a more general solution...
2863 [21:47:42] <Neobenedict> but I guess it doesn't exist
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2869 [21:55:06] <annadane> i guess this will be in the release notes but does debian generally recommend to purge obsolete config files before dist-upgrading to the new stable?
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2879 [22:01:38] <jhutchins_wk> Does 10-20 seconds seem like an unacceptable wait to load a web page?
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2884 [22:02:34] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: Not that I've seen. It will offer to retain or replace a file if a package is upgraded.
2885 [22:03:06] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: I'm not sure what it does if the package is no longer installed but wasn't purged.
2886 [22:03:14] <annadane> i just removed a truckload of packages i don't really want but just decided to apt remove instead of purge to be "less destructive"
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2897 [22:13:30] <annadane> i *should* just purge
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2900 [22:15:14] <Sir_Cheer> YOUR MOM
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2913 [22:25:03] <humpled> what's the worst that could happen
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2918 [22:27:01] <budgie> hello, what is the difference of apt and apt-get ?
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2921 [22:28:35] <greycat> budgie: apt-get has a stable interface (arguments, options, output format), whereas apt is ever-changing. apt is aimed more at beginners, with colored output and stuff.
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2923 [22:28:57] <greycat> and why the hell can't I find a factoid on this
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2927 [22:29:50] <budgie> to me, "ever-changing" sounds like rolling release. is it stable? and what do you recommend?
2928 [22:30:28] <greycat> today it uses yellow. tomorrow it may be blue. or purple. who the hell knows.
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2930 [22:30:49] <budgie> even in stable debian releases?
2931 [22:30:56] <greycat> no
2932 [22:31:03] <budgie> ah
2933 [22:31:20] <budgie> got you wrong then, sorry
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2936 [22:31:59] <annadane> i'm just curious how dpkg will keep the conf files the same upon upgrades for packages if the syntax changes
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2938 [22:32:35] <greycat> either there'll be a conversion done in a postinst script, or there'll be a brand new config file and you're prompted whether to use it or keep your old one
2939 [22:32:50] <greycat> it will depend on the package, and whether you edited the config file by hand
2940 [22:33:18] <budgie> will dpkg backup the old config file when you select you want the new one?
2941 [22:33:25] <greycat> yeah
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2943 [22:33:41] <greycat> /etc/ca-certificates.conf.dpkg-old
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2945 [22:35:38] <annadane> wing it, essentially :P
2946 [22:35:50] <annadane> that said i should look into keeping a git repo
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2952 [22:40:45] <jhutchins_wk> budgie: Apt is really still in development, but the version released in stable is just that, stable. I believe apt-get is the oldest, with the least features (which is sometimes an advantage), aptitude is the flagship, solid and full of functions, apt is the "man, we need to start over from scratch" version.
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2959 [22:43:54] <m0rd3cai> Im having a bit of trouble trying to understand how a service gets masked. Every apt-get or dpkg command ends with "cups.service failed to start. service is masked" ive tried 'sudo service unmask cups.service' no error message when command was run. restarting the service throws the same error
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2965 [22:45:26] <jmcnaught> m0rd3cai: what does "systemctl status cups.service" say?
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2967 [22:46:25] <m0rd3cai> "loaded: masked (/dev/null; bad) then Active: inactive (dead)
2968 [22:47:00] <m0rd3cai> im checking the logs and found this in syslog
2969 [22:47:02] <m0rd3cai> audit: type=1400 audit(1559335175.473:368): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="same as current profile, skipping" profile="unconfined" name="/usr/sbin/cups-browsed" pid=16602 comm="apparmor_parser"
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2971 [22:47:55] <jmcnaught> m0rd3cai: is there a symlink to /dev/null at /etc/systemd/system/cups.service?
2972 [22:48:13] <budgie> jhutchins_wk: thanks for explaining :)
2973 [22:49:16] <m0rd3cai> yes, cups.path cups.service and cups.socket are all -> /dev/null
2974 [22:50:39] <m0rd3cai> i dont understand how a service gets masked
2975 [22:51:14] <jmcnaught> m0rd3cai: a service gets masked by symlinking it to /dev/null, so if you delete those symlinks (which is what systemctl unmask is supposed to do) they'll be unmasked
2976 [22:51:33] <jmcnaught> cups is not masked by default, so maybe you masked it at one point?
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2978 [22:52:09] <m0rd3cai> ive run that command twice now and it appears to have worked. no errors reported. tried to reconfigure cups, tried to remove cups.
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2983 [22:54:20] <m0rd3cai> just did sudo systemctl list-unit-files and cups.path is showing masked. if service cups unmask doesnt fix the sym link would this require manually editing the symlink?
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2985 [22:54:54] <jmcnaught> m0rd3cai: why are you using the service command, use "systemctl unmask cups.service cups.socket cups.path cups-browsed.service"
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2988 [22:57:19] <m0rd3cai> Removed the symlink cups.socket and cups.service
2989 [22:57:53] <m0rd3cai> dude you rock.
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2991 [22:58:10] <m0rd3cai> i need to read more on service vs systemctl
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2993 [22:59:09] <greycat> "service" is much older, and is a generic wrapper that's supposed to work equally well regardless of whether your service is using systemd configs or sysv-rc configs
2994 [22:59:27] <m0rd3cai> ok that makes sense
2995 [22:59:30] <greycat> I don't think it knows about mask and unmask, because those are unique to systemd.
2996 [22:59:33] <jhutchins_wk> m0rd3cai: That message from apparmor is suspicious. I'm not familiar with it, but it _could_ be disabling cups.
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2998 [23:00:22] <jmcnaught> profile="unconfined" means apparmor is not restricting this binary
2999 [23:00:37] <m0rd3cai> jhutchins_wk: thats what i was thinking because cups.browsed error just appeared
3000 [23:01:11] <jmcnaught> I would be very surprised if apparmor was masking systemd units
3001 [23:01:13] <jhutchins_wk> "service" was originally provided so you didn't have to type out the whole path of the init script, but it's very handy now if you're in a mixed environment and want to have a command that will work on any server.
3002 [23:01:29] <greycat> most servers, anyway
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3005 [23:02:22] <jmcnaught> the service command argument order is "service <service> <command>" while systemctl's argument order is "systemctl <command> <units>" allowing you to use a single command on multiple units
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3007 [23:03:39] <jhutchins_wk> jmcnaught: Interesting. So you can enable several things at once.
3008 [23:03:54] <m0rd3cai> thats cool
3009 [23:03:56] <jhutchins_wk> ... or turn off all of the mail services for instance.
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