35[00:09:41] <jmcnaught> Synaptic: "apt-get purge nvidia-*" should do it, but very carefully review the list of packages it will remove before approving
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41[00:13:51] <jmcnaught> Synaptic: if you decide to try installing the nvidia drivers again make sure to follow these instructions, you need to have kernel headers installed before installing nvidia-driver, I suspect that's where things went wrong: replaced-url
58[00:27:05] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
63[00:29:36] <carl_> okay i think the problem with these backport instructions is that if I try to make a backport of guake from testing to stable, it ends up being installed with broken dependencies
64[00:29:38] <annadane> if i want to comment out a cron entry is it just #'s?
74[00:37:04] <dpkg> uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd replaced-url
77[00:37:28] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <stretch backports>) and oldstable (<jessie backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
78[00:37:49] <carl_> dang i'm stumped
79[00:38:08] <carl_> these backport instructions aren't working
80[00:38:59] <jmcnaught> carl_: there's an alternative method here: replaced-url
81[00:40:21] <carl_> jmcnaught, those don't work either
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94[00:44:04] <carl_> aaand following the simple backport guide I just get E: The value 'testing' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
96[00:44:24] <jmcnaught> carl_: was guake rewritten in an interpreted language like python between stretch and buster? That could be why it's for all instead of amd64
97[00:44:48] <carl_> jmcnaught, i have no idea
98[00:45:03] <carl_> the newer one has python deps tho so I'm assuming it's in python
99[00:45:04] <carl_> hmm
100[00:46:51] <carl_> well the current github repo is in python alright
113[00:52:24] <jmcnaught> carl_: did you install it with dpkg -i? Installing it with "apt install ./guake.deb" should pull in dependencies that the package may need
129[00:58:36] <jmcnaught> carl_: well those packages simply aren't in stretch or stretch-backports at the required versions. I don't know why judd reports that guake can be backported if that's the case. The bot's not perfect I guess
130[00:58:43] *** Quits: woenx (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
131[01:00:08] <carl_> jmcnaught, what does backporting mean exactly? Does it mean just making a newer package install on older debians with older dependencies, or does it mean also pulling the newer dependencies too?
132[01:00:36] <jmcnaught> carl_: it means compiling a newer package from testing/unstable for the libraries in stable
133[01:01:23] <carl_> jmcnaught, so what happens if it needs dependencies from testing? is it impossible to backport then?
134[01:02:18] *** Quits: humpled (~humbag@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
135[01:02:46] <jmcnaught> carl_: or you can end up in dependency hell trying to backport dependencies of dependencies. I usually don't bother unless it's something I can't live without (zero manually backported software on any of my stretch systems)
136[01:03:46] <carl_> jmcnaught, the dependency hell sounds like less trouble than dealing with the ancient bugs in some packages of stable though
137[01:04:01] <carl_> jmcnaught, maybe I'm coming at this the wrong way
138[01:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1470
139[01:04:41] <carl_> jmcnaught, I figured that since I hate troubleshooting and I can live without the newest version for most of my software, I should use debian stable as opposed to testing
145[01:05:45] <carl_> jmcnaught, this seems to be working fine in most cases, but occasionally I run into a package which is just unreasonably old, so I figured I could just install those from testing and hope for the best
147[01:06:43] <jmcnaught> carl_: well as you can see stable and testing have diverged quite a bit in terms of library versions, which is why mixing binary packages from both (as opposed to backporting source packages) can easily mess up your system
148[01:07:20] <jmcnaught> carl_: buster is frozen now and won't be changing much, if you can live without security support upgrading to buster is an option.
149[01:08:10] <carl_> jmcnaught, what do you mean by security support?
151[01:08:55] *** Quits: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
152[01:09:19] <jmcnaught> carl_: only Debian stable gets security updates from the security team, so buster lags a bit behind getting security updates
153[01:09:46] <carl_> jmcnaught, ah
154[01:10:16] <carl_> jmcnaught, so I have to pick between really old software in general but up to date on security issues, vs. newer software but outdated on security
155[01:10:34] <carl_> oh well
156[01:10:54] <carl_> jmcnaught, my main concern really is that if I switched to testing one of the drivers will randomly break
161[01:13:45] <jmcnaught> carl_: do you have third-party drivers installed? If you follow the upgrade instructions in the (draft) buster release notes it should be a smooth upgrade
162[01:15:19] <Synaptic> this is my sources.list replaced-url
163[01:15:35] <carl_> jmcnaught, I didn't install any drivers separately after installing debian but I did have to allow the non-free repos
249[02:14:05] <somiaj> carl_: things offical in a debian release are seldom if ever broken, what is broken for you?
250[02:14:38] <somiaj> often times when stuff breaks it is because of mixing things. It is worth learning to do things the 'debian way',whcih basically is just some best practices to keep from breaking your debian.
251[02:16:59] <jim> carl_, maybe apt -f install could make things better
269[02:22:00] <jim> (idea being, let me tell them that, so they can do it)
270[02:22:09] <somiaj> why do you want to generate a release file, is this still about the fact the docker source you are trying to use doesn't have one?
276[02:24:13] <somiaj> are you trying to build a docker repository, or is this just one that isn't working? You probably shouldn't work as the middle person to getting their repository to work.
277[02:24:38] <somiaj> and I can't really provide you enough details. The tools they are using to build the repository should be building the release files.
278[02:25:22] <jim> nope, just trying to use one, and get something to tell them how to generate that release file
280[02:26:10] <carl_> somiaj, well there's blatant bugs in the package that's in stable, and when I look online I get lots of non-working instructions, including on the debian wiki. Also people here point me to help pages that turn out to be either missing or incorrect
281[02:26:11] <jim> is it possible to proceed without the release file? (it must be some switch of apt-get update)
283[02:27:26] <somiaj> this is not the channel to try to get support on some third party repository. If the release file is missing either you have not entered int he repository correctly or the people who craeted it have a problem. Contact them.
284[02:28:09] <carl_> somiaj, I came here to get support on installing a package from testing
285[02:28:16] <carl_> surely it is the correct channel for that?
286[02:28:17] <somiaj> carl_: what package again? Debian isn't bug free, but most things work just fine. At the time of the release debian is *almost* release critical bug free, but sometimes these bugs are found after the release.
298[02:29:21] <Synaptic> but audio of movies is going out of sync here
299[02:29:25] <Synaptic> all my movies
300[02:29:37] <carl_> somiaj, yes yes don't install any new packages and just give up on having any updates even though current version is broken and upstream fixed it
301[02:29:46] <jim> you can, however, build the package from testing...
306[02:30:52] <somiaj> Synaptic: I personally with your expeirnce would not suggest backporting from testing. Also since buster is about to release, either use buster now (with limited security support) or wait for the release.
307[02:31:02] <Synaptic> ok
308[02:31:06] <jim> not without a lot of work getting those build dependencies satisfied
311[02:31:14] <Synaptic> but in this moment my movies are not correctly sync
312[02:31:21] <Synaptic> and i dont know how i can fix it
313[02:31:39] <somiaj> carl_: Debian's frozen release structure has some very good thigns about it, but it isn't for all users. Personally I suggest just running buster at this time if you want newer software from buster.
314[02:32:06] <somiaj> Synaptic: all your movies or just certain ones?
315[02:32:23] <jim> somiaj, if this isn't the channel to find out how the 3rd party repo admins can fix their repo, what would be?
316[02:32:43] <carl_> somiaj, why can't I just install only the package I want from testing, and also whatever dependencies are strictly necessary, and if that breaks creates a frenkendebian and something breaks then so be it?
317[02:33:01] <carl_> *if that creates
318[02:33:01] <Synaptic> somiaj, all
319[02:33:14] <jim> carl_, possibly, you'd break your packaging db
320[02:33:16] <Synaptic> and same with mpv dragonplayer and vlc
325[02:34:35] <jim> carl_, well the only problem there, is you'd end up with something you'd have to take over support on
326[02:34:45] <somiaj> carl_: you can do with your system whatever you want. We will not support you if you mix because it leads to lots of crazy issues, including not being able to install stuff and bugs that are due to mixing.
327[02:35:00] <Synaptic> i will keep testing it
328[02:35:08] <Synaptic> some adjustment on preferences
329[02:35:13] <carl_> fair enough somiaj, but HOW do I get the testing package to install?
330[02:35:26] <carl_> that's really the only thing I'm asking
331[02:35:50] <somiaj> Synaptic: hmm, I don't know vlc that well, try to install mpv, then play the moving from the command line, mpv filefoo. mpv should be able to play almost anything.
333[02:36:00] <carl_> if it's unsupported and I do it anyway and something breaks because I did it obviously I'm not going to come back here and complain it broke, I'm going to uninstall it and give up
334[02:36:08] <carl_> But I haven't been able to even try
336[02:36:34] <somiaj> carl_: It is not supported, you will have to figure out how to get it to install.
337[02:36:53] <carl_> argh
338[02:36:57] <somiaj> I would jsut install buster on your system, it will be a far better experience than mixing.
339[02:36:58] <carl_> that's just unhelpful
340[02:37:30] <somiaj> buster is almost stable, many users run it just fine, you just have limited security support until the release which isn't that big of a deal for most desktop systems.
341[02:37:43] <somiaj> you can even just upgrade stable to buster if you like.
358[02:40:43] <carl_> somiaj, I mean it's a very simple thing I'm asking - what command do I run to install a package from testing, plus those dependencies which cannot be satisfied by stable
359[02:40:54] <carl_> if this is impossible, okay
360[02:41:17] <somiaj> You may think it is simple but it is not, due to shared libaries.
361[02:41:19] <dvs> carl_, If you do that then you will be running testing
362[02:41:41] <somiaj> just upgrade to testing, it is for the most part stable, has the software you want.
363[02:42:09] <carl_> there seems to be a fundamental break in communication here
366[02:42:44] <somiaj> yes, you don't understand what 'we do not support mixing' means. It means we don't support it, including figureing out how to do it in anyway what so ever.
367[02:42:44] <carl_> like stable has 99 softwares I want, but testing has 1 software I want, so I'm asking how to get the 1 from testing and you're telling me just switch to testing!
368[02:42:55] <jim> somiaj, ok. so in that case it doesn't get fixed. so be it. so in the alternative, can I proceed without them having a repease file?
369[02:43:20] <carl_> well what about the other 99 programs which I want to run the stable version of?
370[02:43:21] <somiaj> jim: I'm unsure the best way to install docker on debian.
371[02:43:21] <dvs> carl_, I'm telling you that that one package in testing will pull in base libraries from testing
373[02:43:35] <carl_> yes guake has like 7 dependencies from testing
374[02:43:42] <carl_> so I install 8 packages big whoop
375[02:43:44] <somiaj> carl_: simple case, that 1 package pulls in some core libaries like libc6, and some other core stuff that most of your system depends on.
376[02:43:51] <carl_> still not the same as switching to tetsing
377[02:43:59] <humpled> it seems you want something which is not debian
378[02:44:08] <somiaj> carl_: now you have some core libaries that are on testing, and this could break every one of those other 99 packages that also depend on this core package.
379[02:44:13] <dvs> carl_, No, it's called a frankendebian
380[02:44:36] <carl_> humpled, yes, I want to install the working version of a program as opposed to the broken version, if that is "not debian", then maybe I should step back and reflect here I guess
381[02:44:44] <jim> somiaj, following that line of reasoning, you're also not sure if debian properly supports docker... my original intent was to learn something about it, so I'd be better equipped to help people
385[02:45:47] <carl_> somiaj, why would it break them? maybe they'll break and maybe they won't. I want to try it and see, if it breaks I'll go back
386[02:45:47] <jim> yeah, I looked at the checkbackport for that already
387[02:46:02] <dvs> !downgrade
388[02:46:02] <somiaj> jim: docker's development was moving really quickly so the packages were pulled from stretch as debian couldn't support them. Seems they are in buster now. I don't know the best way to install docker in stable, which isn't offically supported.
389[02:46:02] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
390[02:46:17] <humpled> doesn't gnome have it's own drop-down terminal? i'm sure i used something that wasn't guake
391[02:46:22] <somiaj> carl_: you can't just go back. Did you read that don't break debian wiki page?
393[02:47:14] <carl_> somiaj, i don't get how i can't just uninstall the handful of packages
394[02:48:11] <jim> carl_, you understand what a tree of package dependency relations is?
395[02:48:26] <carl_> jim, yes and so?
396[02:48:37] *** Quits: Max_Rebo (~Max_Rebo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
397[02:49:14] <jim> if you install a package from another version of debian, you also introduce a dependency tree that's not compatible with the one you have
400[02:50:57] <jim> carl_, this could, for example, lead to the installation of a later libc, and this would result in trying to install every package containing binary executables linked against libc
401[02:51:57] <carl_> yes jim i realize that
402[02:52:02] <jim> true, not necessarily compatible. if it has binary executables linked with libc, then definitely incompatable
403[02:53:08] <somiaj> our basic policy here is to not suggest or help someone break their system. That is what 'not supported' means.
404[02:54:23] <carl_> somiaj, that policy doesn't seem to mean much since the I did get suggested things that did break my system
406[02:55:05] <somiaj> Sure, and there is a lot (and I mean a lot) of bad advise about debian on the internet too.
407[02:55:47] <jim> looking at the original intent for having this whole system, it's in order to afford some convenience in installing software that wasn't originally installed when they first installed debian
610[05:34:25] <ealfonso> Hi. I'm trying to help a friend install debian on a MacBookAir (2010, 11', Oct 2010). I saw the guide (replaced-url
611[05:39:27] <Synaptic> hello
612[05:40:17] <Synaptic> ealfonso, i dont want to say something not true, but, installing debian on a macbook anyway is going to scan and find all hardware components like all the other PC
613[05:40:30] <Synaptic> the only way you need to find the way to boot the installer
622[05:48:13] <ealfonso> 3-2 is not the same as 3-1. Maybe it doesn't matter, but the guide isn't explicit about this. I'm also unsure about the rEFit step, which seems unmaintained since 2013
623[05:48:32] <rant> the only thing special about apple machines of the last 10 years is the EFI, other than that they are the same as any other machine
624[05:49:09] <rant> older ones that arent amd64 (x86_64) are no longer supported by debian
627[05:51:14] <ealfonso> rant are you aware of anything special needed for dual-booting with the original OS X ? will grub do it?
628[05:51:21] <rant> personally if I had one I'd sell it and get a 2013 era lenovo thinkpad X or T series.. which you should be able to do with ease.. and it'd be way better hardware all the way around
629[05:51:48] <rant> I have no idea about OSX
630[05:52:43] *** Quits: UniFreak (~UniFreak@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
646[05:59:38] <rant> Synaptic: yes well, when asking hardware questions like that the names are irrelevant we need the vend/prod id codes.. the software doesnt claim devices based on their names and many different names could correspond to many different id numbers
647[05:59:54] <Synaptic> ok
648[05:59:59] <Synaptic> i will be back from debian later
649[06:00:09] <rant> Synaptic: yes, it will send the pci/usb bus info to a pastebin and return a URL
673[06:03:29] <midoriya> Hello all, running a fresh installation of Debian unstable with GNOME 3. It looks and runs beautifully! :)
674[06:04:08] <rant> Synaptic: as I said I have on my USB bus, my fingerprint reader, webcam, and bluetooth, without anything plugged in.. all three of these devices are internal.. the bluetooth is on the same mini pci express card as my wifi which is on the pci bus
675[06:04:44] <rant> midoriya: I'm sorry to hear that
691[06:07:20] <Synaptic> maybe i will download xfce as well cuz i like it
692[06:07:24] <Synaptic> plasma looks too delicate..
693[06:07:43] <Synaptic> jmcnaught, i installed nvidia drivers at the end...
694[06:07:50] <Synaptic> thanks to the proper guide....
695[06:07:58] <midoriya> I do like Xfce, but I'll wait until 4.14 is released before I try it out again. It just has too much screen tearing and Compton isn't really that great of a workaround :P
696[06:08:36] <rant> according to annadane about an hour or two ago, it was already released
697[06:08:51] <Synaptic> installing them all, at the boot i can choose it from the login page right? like i did from gome to plasma?
698[06:08:59] <rant> its not in debian yet of course cause we're in a freeze
699[06:09:10] <rant> Synaptic: yes
700[06:09:17] <Synaptic> ok it will be just one more.. xfce
701[06:09:38] <midoriya> It just got its first pre-release, but 4.14 should be out by the time 10 rolls around... shame it didn't mean the Buster freeze deadline, though
704[06:10:09] <rant> I think I may setup some VM and work on that issue.. cause those cluttered menus do really bother me..and its extremely difficult for average user to address that issue with multiple DE
705[06:10:40] <midoriya> I think you could use MenuLibre to hide a lot of applications that are built around different environments. That's definitely what I'd do, haha
706[06:11:24] *** Quits: chet (~chet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
707[06:11:26] <rant> yes well those menu editors are buggy and complicated as all hell and dont make it easy if even possible to edit menus on a per-de basis
719[06:13:55] <rant> by using the high-level task-foo-desktop metapackages you make it easier to remove by just removing that task package then doing apt autoremove
720[06:15:08] <Henry151> eliminate your DE entirely :)
730[06:20:16] <jmcnaught> Maybe sawfish was using Debian menu?
731[06:20:18] <jmcnaught> ,i menu
732[06:20:20] <judd> Package menu (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: generates programs menu for all menu-aware applications. Version: 2.1.47+b1; Size: 370.7k; Installed: 1435k
762[06:40:02] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
763[06:40:12] <rant> my thought is to just make a simple automated program that can quickly build you per-de menus in your homedir.. and perhaps have several different pre-defined layouts.. where its DE-only, DE with all in seperate menu hierarchy, DE with other in each submenu, etc.. and perhaps have a simple mechanism to allow you to "import" apps from other DE to the current DE menu
769[06:42:09] <rant> Synaptic: well thats kinda my point.. new users I'm sure would love to just install multiple DE and mess with each.. and its daunting when you goto your menu and you got 4 text editors, 4 calculators, 4 archive managers, 4 file managers
770[06:42:55] <Synaptic> true
771[06:42:59] <rant> somiaj: they usually need to be installed seperately and the point is you start out using a global menu with virtually everything.. newer users need to start out the way they would get it if they had only installed 1 DE
772[06:43:06] <Synaptic> i just have 2 of each because i switch from gnome to kde..
773[06:43:37] <Synaptic> if i dont like them i just go on synaptic and select wich one need to be uninstalled
774[06:43:38] <Synaptic> no?
775[06:44:19] <rant> mixing and matchign components from various DE is something you do AFTER you become acquainted.. this is why seperating the redundant menu entries should be default behavior
776[06:44:50] <Synaptic> talking about desktops..... is it possible to run a bash command, for example top on the background of the screen?
783[06:47:01] <rant> Synaptic: technically the desktop and wallpaper are just a frameless window.. last I used sawfish with mate, the desktop was drawn at like -5 so putting something at -4, ignored (without a window frame decor at all) and full-screen sized, would make it appear above the desktop but below everything else..
787[06:47:41] <somiaj> Synaptic: you can get a terminal that has psudotransparancy and uses your wall paper as the background.
788[06:47:42] <Synaptic> didnt know that could make it like that
789[06:47:46] <rant> but doing this requires support for doing this in your WM, and should be possible with any EWMH compliant wm, but it would then still be on top of your icons
790[06:48:16] <Synaptic> mhh
791[06:48:19] <rant> the other option would be to render the output of the command using something like imagemagick to an actual image
792[06:48:29] <Synaptic> long time ago i was using conky but im not good anymore coding it
793[06:48:31] <rant> actually putting the text onto an image file
794[06:48:36] <somiaj> there is actually a command that does this, can't seem to recall its name though.
797[06:49:47] <somiaj> hmm, there is root-tail, but that wasn't waht I was thinking off
798[06:50:04] <rant> Synaptic: its simple window stacking order.. most windows are 0 and above.. but things like panels and desktop apps that show icons or backgrounds are exceptions.. they typically run at negative levels and often also change the usable desktop size (for maximizing windows)
799[06:50:26] <rant> I recall xphoon which was one that showed the phase of the moon on the root window
804[06:53:29] <somiaj> ahh there it is, xosd-bin is the package name, there is also aosd-cat, or even osdsh, various tools for this (osd = on screen display)
805[06:53:35] *** Parts: Sveta (~svetlana@replaced-ip) (".")
825[07:07:00] <somiaj> m4ch1n3znc: provided you have updated the microcode/firmware of your machine the kernel should have protection against those cpu flaws.
829[07:11:16] <tdn> somiaj, I do not want a 'fancy' web front end. However, I do want to be able to check out via https. Like I can do with subversion and apache
830[07:12:26] <somiaj> Maybe you can just ssl_proxy apache to the port git-daemon is running on localhost, I haven't done this though.
839[07:17:40] <themill> tdn: you can just expose a bare git repo with any httpd and it is able to be cloned via http/https.
840[07:18:50] <themill> (that's readonly; pushing requires more, but you did say "check out" not "commit" so perhaps that is sufficient for your needs)
847[07:21:46] <somiaj> python is a fairly good general purpose langauge that is still quite popular, has a good community, lots of docs, and in my opinion easy to write.
848[07:22:17] <magic_ninja> It has to be easier than C
849[07:22:20] <rabbitear_sdf> use go instead
850[07:22:42] <somiaj> I find the syntax nice (once you get use to it) and the code easily readable.
851[07:22:48] <rabbitear_sdf> actually you are suppose to write stuff in c first
852[07:23:03] <magic_ninja> I don't have time to keep screwing around with C
853[07:23:23] <magic_ninja> I need something that I can slap together :)
855[07:23:26] <rabbitear_sdf> magic_ninja: oh, you will
856[07:23:32] <rabbitear_sdf> magic_ninja: you will my friend
857[07:23:40] <somiaj> scripting langauges are great for small jobs, and overall python can be fairly quick, lots of times python will use a compiled c libary for speed on complicated things.
858[07:24:01] <magic_ninja> rabbitear_sdf, I've written a nice bit of C in the last year. I want something else.
865[07:25:55] <magic_ninja> somiaj, right on. I know python has libs for a ton of things. I was kinda debating between that and java.
866[07:26:12] <rabbitear_sdf> magic_ninja: I have to have to you write a full report, why you need to talk to people and do something else for me, okay?
867[07:26:47] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
869[07:27:34] <somiaj> magic_ninja: I think on linux you'll find python a bit easier since it is installed by default on linux, and if you are wanting to get away from C syntax, java would be similar, and require a lot of additional stuff to install.
870[07:27:59] <rabbitear_sdf> there's 3 kinds of people in this world, but hopefully what to learn question gets gone, because you're already learning what you do <-- do is a funny thing these days too
871[07:28:01] <somiaj> I mean java has similar syntax to C.
873[07:28:15] <magic_ninja> I'm not worried about size.
874[07:28:20] <magic_ninja> 1TB SSD just for the linux install.
875[07:28:43] <magic_ninja> But, if java has a C syntax, I might pick it up more quickly.
876[07:29:09] <magic_ninja> I'll go with python. It is one of the main languages for Ignition HMI as well, so I could double up.
877[07:29:23] <rabbitear_sdf> what you'll probably be worrying about and taking up most of your energy is messing with yourself saying 'why don't I know this'
882[07:30:32] <magic_ninja> rabbitear_sdf, I'm in my second year of EE school, I've been programming PLC's for years, been building networks since I was a teenager and I'm a journeyman electrician. I think I can deal with technology.
896[07:34:15] <somiaj> magic_ninja: many like ipython when learning python or the more fancy jyupter notebook if you want to write it over a web front end.
897[07:34:20] <chet> I finally got sound coming the fromt aux (3.5mm) port and the sound is switching back and forth if I unplug but there is terrible feedback coming out the rear aux but no music
912[07:37:36] <somiaj> chet: I'm unsure. Is this on a laptop?
913[07:37:48] <chet> when I unplug the headphones sound goes back to the other device
914[07:37:55] <chet> desktop
915[07:38:36] <rabbitear_sdf> magic_ninja: drink a glass of water, take shower, it'll be the same stuff when you're a refreshed mind
916[07:38:38] <somiaj> yea, I'm unsure, is this the intel hda sound card?
917[07:39:00] <rabbitear_sdf> magic_ninja: you are thinking too much, i believe
918[07:39:10] <chet> the rear is hooked to sound system via 3.5mm but I want it to switch when I plug and unplug the headphones
919[07:39:31] <somiaj> magic_ninja: I was wrong there, turns out what I was thinking of was a python bytecode. I haven't had to use it, I would just start simple. Nice thing about ipython is you can just start writting pythong in a shell to get use to it.
920[07:40:00] <rabbitear_sdf> somiaj: you are confusing the users!
921[07:40:16] <m4ch1n3znc> so zombiload was patched with last intel-microcode package update?
922[07:40:54] <rabbitear_sdf> m4ch1n3znc: they say
941[07:44:57] <somiaj> chet: I think that sound driver should be able to detect if you plug in headphones and switch output accordinglly. I have no clue how to configure this if it isn't working.
949[07:48:35] <chet> just tons of bad feedback coming out the rear when headphones plugged in
950[07:49:06] <chet> **headphones plugged into the front
951[07:50:59] <somiaj> as I said, maybe plugging in the headphones in the front is switching the port in the back to be a mic jack or something like that.
952[07:51:22] <Synaptic> just a thinking... right now, let say with the incoming new stable release of debian, for a everyday usage of a pc, lets say a normal user desktop user. debian start to be more user friendly compared to the past? and compared with all forks and derivated from debian that everybody says more beginners friendly?
953[07:51:44] <somiaj> that snd_hda_intel card has lots of models that have various different behaviors. But most the info I have is kinda outdated.
954[07:52:47] <somiaj> Synaptic: debian does have improvements on that front, but debian provides for a much bigger audience (both in number of ports supported and number of packages supported), that it most likely won't ever be as user friendly as some derivatives that focus only on that.
955[07:52:52] <Synaptic> i will type again the questio on #debian-offtopic if necessary
958[07:53:22] <Synaptic> me im not a linux expert, im not able to compile manually
959[07:53:25] <somiaj> Synaptic: I think taking the time to learn debian is worth it, but it maynot be as catered to say a desktop on amd64 hardware as say mint is.
960[07:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1457
961[07:54:02] <somiaj> you shoudln't have to complie things manually in debian. You may have to realize debian has a differnt goal, and sometimes the software available is older, but in most cases provided y ou are okay with the software provided, this won't be an issue.
962[07:54:05] <Synaptic> im scared to do something wrong, but i believe if i break a debian, i can break a mint in same way
964[07:55:42] <somiaj> That is correct, the basic thing is just use official debian sources, and if software you want is not in debian, it is often better to find an alternative that is than try to add software to debian (until you better understand debian and what you are doing)
965[07:56:41] <somiaj> this would be the same for mint. If you choose mint, only use mint sources, and only use the software mint has availabe in their sources if at all possible. Also realize that your choice of distro comes with a support commuinty. You do get to ask questions here if you choose debian, other wise you need to use mints (or X distros) support community.
966[07:56:58] *** Quits: kapilp (uid36151@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
967[07:57:04] <Synaptic> i can tell you what im doing 99% with my laptop. watching movies HD, listen to FLAC music or hi-res music, photography editing with lightroom or darktable, i like a lot graphical things, and normal internet browsing/yt and thats it
969[07:57:36] <Synaptic> im running debian at the moment
970[07:57:53] <somiaj> Synaptic: personally I would just install buster at this point and see if it is what you want. It is basically stable, and the limited secuirty support isn't that big of an issue (for the most part)
972[07:58:16] <Synaptic> im trying to understand if im doing ti right..... why im on debian? because i dont want to use a derivated or fork system, if the original system is available
974[07:58:35] <Synaptic> ubuntu is debian based and mint is ubuntu based... al coming down from debian, so i want to use debian
975[07:58:42] <Synaptic> thats my philosophy right now
976[07:58:50] <Synaptic> buster is testing? or unstable?
977[07:58:56] <somiaj> Though we don't support derivatives here, they have their place, and sometimes focus more on a smaller target (such as desktop use) which some users may find more to their liking.
978[07:58:59] <somiaj> buster is testing.
979[07:59:17] <Synaptic> testing have plenty new software on it right?
980[07:59:27] <Synaptic> also vlc 3.* if im right
981[07:59:34] <somiaj> but soon buster will be stable, which is why I'm recommending it. This way you can get more moder software and make sure debian suits your needs
992[08:00:59] *** Quits: sfvm (~sfvm@replaced-ip) (Quit: off to the basement, mixing up the medicine)
993[08:01:01] <somiaj> when a release happens, stable becomes oldstable, testing becomes stable, a new testing is created (as a copy of the old testing) and unstable is always unstable.
994[08:01:17] <Synaptic> but stretchs are stable and olstable?
995[08:01:27] <somiaj> right now stretch is stable and jessie is oldstable
996[08:01:55] <somiaj> after busters release, stretch is oldstable, and jessie is oldoldstable (though outside of server use, most won't be using jessie)
997[08:02:09] <Synaptic> ok so stretch stable stretch testing and buster unstable
1014[08:04:53] <somiaj> but yes, basically change your sources.list to use 'buster' instead of 'stable' (though it is always better to use codenames so it might be stretch)
1017[08:05:31] <Synaptic> i get always headache reading long papers
1018[08:05:56] <somiaj> note that guide is covering worst case scenerio, often times just chaging your sources and upgrading works. But there are some best practices, and things to do to help save things if it breaks
1019[08:06:18] <Synaptic> i installed clean stable 2 hours ago
1020[08:06:21] <somiaj> if you are okay with just reinstalling from scratch (all your personal data is backed up) just change your sources.list and upgrade.
1021[08:06:22] <Synaptic> almost nothing installed on it
1022[08:06:38] <somiaj> yea, then just change your sources.list and then apt update && apt dist-upgrade
1023[08:06:49] <Synaptic> how many gb?
1024[08:06:51] <somiaj> If it breaks you can just install buster from scratch, no loss
1025[08:06:56] <Synaptic> because i have limited internet traffic
1026[08:07:03] <somiaj> totally depends on the number of packages you have installed.
1027[08:07:21] <somiaj> the dist-upgrade will tell you how many gigs it has to download
1028[08:07:26] <Synaptic> lets remain on stable for the moment im in a situation where if i loose the pc... im dead
1029[08:07:27] <Synaptic> :)
1030[08:07:35] <Synaptic> i will experiment once i wil be back home
1031[08:07:43] <Synaptic> now im in the middle of the ocean working
1032[08:07:55] <somiaj> Yea, always best to prepare for worse case scenerios
1033[08:08:01] <Synaptic> true...
1034[08:08:06] <Synaptic> i will be home in 2 month
1035[08:08:15] <Synaptic> i think buster will become even more stable
1036[08:08:34] <Synaptic> a question... who is working on that? i mean.. people in that channel? or on the OFTC ?
1037[08:08:36] <somiaj> yea, by then buster might even be released and offically stable.
1038[08:09:03] <somiaj> It is a combination of the release team and the matainers of the packages that have rc-bugs in them.
1039[08:09:33] <somiaj> Some of these devs are in various development channels on oftc, but the irc channels are mostly filled with support volunetters such as myself.
1047[08:10:52] <Synaptic> and me breaking the balls to all of them with my stupid questions :)
1048[08:12:06] <Synaptic> im not good reading guide.... i can follow like STEP-guides... where i can read the actions i could do, but im learning much faster listening experts and explaining my needs
1049[08:12:53] <Synaptic> sometimes guides are old and not suitable anymore for what i need
1126[08:52:49] <tdn> themill, so if I just serve the repository via a std. httpd, git client will know how to check out and commit via that? How to define and enforce who has read and write access to what folders then ?
1154[09:09:27] <themill> tdn: If you do a simple http-served repo like that, it can be cloned. You can commit to your local copy of the repo. You can't push to the http-served repo, though, as it is read-only. If you want to be able to push, then you need something fancier.
1163[09:12:47] <jelly> rocketmagnet: if you have access to oracle's downloads you can download the jdk or jre tarball there, then use make-jpkg tool from java-package package to convert it to an installable .deb
1193[09:27:14] <humpled> looks like it's in java-package rocketmagnet,
1194[09:27:37] <themill> (just like jelly said)
1195[09:27:40] <jelly> rocketmagnet: I believe I said it was in "java-package", make sure you jave contrib in sources.list
1196[09:27:47] <jelly> !contrib
1197[09:27:47] <dpkg> [contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb replaced-url
1255[09:58:54] <afidegnum> here is my issue: I m trying to remove the first enclosure of php file, and leave the rest out. i.e <?php bla bla bla ?> <?php other codes .... this is what i have come up with find . -type f -name "*.php" -exec sed 's/<?php/''/g' {} \; but it only removes <?php
1516[12:07:50] <rocketmagnet> i downloaded the .deb file from the oracle page and tried dpkg -i xyz-java.deb and it doesn't show me any errors but it does not install oracle java
1517[12:07:54] <Fox> I dunno, but I wouldn't use ubuntu software on my debian servers
1559[12:26:14] <starbuck> Will I have the same system if I installed Debian Buster from an alpha ISO version and keep it updated with the official repository compared to installing it after it is released later this year? Or should I wait till release and install a fresh system?
1560[12:26:16] <diffy> what does firejail protect against?javascript attacks?side-channel attacks?
1573[12:34:41] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i've made changes that i've not yet commited and want them to be undone and the repo should be like the HEAD branch, how can i achieve that with git ?
1720[13:59:10] <rant> ksk: doesn't seem to be.. I removed one of the disks, the one I had mounted to /media/HGST3TB but I'd also stopped samba, nfs, removed it from fstab and exports .. so idk why it'd be causing total system failure because I removed a non-critical drive
1746[14:06:23] <aypea[1]> this is pre-profile it seems. the first line in /etc/profile is 'if [ "`id -u`" -eq 0 ]; then' and it fails cos it cannot find 'id'
1747[14:06:53] <aypea[1]> in fact, ps auxwwe shows that the process is started with PATH=:/bin
1748[14:07:22] *** Quits: apple123998939 (~apple1239@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1765[14:16:34] <kalsan> I'm trying to figure out why systemctl won't let me run it as a normal user. For instance, I cannot run systemctl --user mycommand because permissions are set to -r-s------
1766[14:16:48] <kalsan> By permisssions I mean /bin/systemctl
1767[14:17:15] <olavx200> change permissions?
1768[14:17:39] <kalsan> Which permissions are safE?
1769[14:17:45] <ayekat> -r-s------ for /bin/systemctl seems wrong - how did you end up with that?
1770[14:18:02] <kalsan> hahaha I never changed that :-D maybe Buster update broke them?
1771[14:18:02] *** Quits: Guest88934 (~ina@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1772[14:18:07] <ayekat> regular -rwx-r-xr-x is fine (at least that's the default, I think)
1830[14:39:27] <samba35> i add intel_iommu=on it /etc/default/grub and then i update grub and reboot but when i could not see expected outout i check with cat /proc/cmdline it show old grub
1831[14:39:38] <samba35> any idea why ?
1832[14:39:54] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1902[15:19:45] <horribleprogram> obviously I'm way too smart to ask such a stupid question, but I'm just testing you guys. Why does the files I create in /var/replaced-url
1936[15:25:37] <horribleprogram> ls -ld /var/replaced-url
1937[15:25:43] <dvs> horribleprogram, because the replaced-url
1938[15:25:53] <xormor> horribleprogram, so you should use "sudo starteditor filename" or "gksudo starteditor filename" or "su" and then start the editor.
1939[15:25:54] <horribleprogram> doesn't say so in the dir permissions
1940[15:26:07] <horribleprogram> xormor: sure, but that's annoying af
1941[15:26:09] *** Quits: silicon_ (~silicon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1948[15:27:42] <horribleprogram> it's just a basic index.html skeleton
1949[15:27:53] <xormor> dvs, we are using the default configuration of apache2 and debian. there the "root" group owns all of those directories and files, /var/replaced-url
1950[15:28:05] <horribleprogram> ^
1951[15:28:24] <horribleprogram> maybe I should change those particular directories to a new group replaced-url
1952[15:28:26] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Quit: Älska inte din nästa, älska den du har)
1953[15:28:50] <horribleprogram> can a directory have more than one group
2098[16:27:16] <horribleprogram> FinalX: this looks complicated
2099[16:27:16] <FinalX> and most webservers can deal with the requests just fine.. plus the IP's could be different every time.. so just blocking the IP won't really help much..
2105[16:27:48] <FinalX> personally I usually advice people the latter of the two
2106[16:27:48] <horribleprogram> No, I take things personally, no one messes with me.
2107[16:27:56] <horribleprogram> this guy is going down
2108[16:27:58] <FinalX> and then what? you're going to do what exactly?
2109[16:28:17] <horribleprogram> report him to the chinese police
2110[16:28:21] <FinalX> if you attack that IP, you commit a crime. and not just that, you will often attack an innocent person's computer of someone that doesn't even know they've been abused either.
2111[16:28:36] <horribleprogram> Idc there's no extradition laws
2112[16:28:42] <Fox> you have your first vhost up for a couple of hours and already take thnigs personnaly ? you'd better leave internet
2113[16:28:44] <FinalX> haha, good luck on that one.. the Chinese government is involved in espionage and these things as well
2114[16:28:56] <rany> horribleprogram, btw you can use a fail2ban profile that reads http.log and bans too many 404 requests
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2174[16:52:50] <_Fremen_> Hello everyone
2175[16:52:51] *** Quits: argusbr (~tls@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2176[16:52:59] <_Fremen_> I have been thinking of migrating to Debian KDE for a while, are there any guides that can help me make it more user friendly? Like in the case of Manjaro KDE?
2177[16:53:09] *** Quits: chrissl (~chris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2218[17:04:07] <_Fremen_> rany: well, You first need to change your repo to testing from stable to get the latest KDE. then you need to install KDE-full package to install all of KDE (just like Manjaro maybe?) then finally, install and configure a time machine/backup tool to protect your installation.
2228[17:06:32] *** Quits: babathreesixty (~babathree@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2229[17:07:27] <EdePopede> manjaro seems to have a different package policy than debian. stable is "stable" because it usually stays with the versions from the freeze stage. which of course means that until the next release is about to reach stable status the upstream versions of software under develpopment usually has a clearly higher version number.
2230[17:07:37] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2234[17:09:47] <_Fremen_> EdePopede: yeah and to be honest, I prefer to sacrifice some stability for newer software versions. That's why I changed it to testing after installation.
2235[17:10:09] <_Fremen_> by the way, which time machine or system restore tool do you guys use?
2242[17:12:37] <jelly> time machine is OSX default backup tool.
2243[17:13:00] <RoyK> _Fremen_: Having worked in IT operation for a couple of decades, I don't really agree with sacrificing stability - but wth - if it's a simple thing and easy to reinstall, whatever :)
2244[17:13:20] * jelly moves RoyK to Ops part of DevOps
2248[17:15:52] <jelly> _Fremen_: neither is a complete automated system restore, but good enough for a start: dirvish (one of a dozen rsync wrappers), restic (a bit smarter backup tool)
2263[17:20:38] <_Fremen_> EdePopede: hmm, if the same thing goes with stability as well, I would use unstable then, instead of testing, I will read about it later :).
2264[17:20:40] *** Quits: agowa338 (~agowa338@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2272[17:25:07] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2273[17:25:19] <EdePopede> having newest versions from upstream *and* a stable system is something you can't get. testing things is a question of time, no matter how many people are involved in the process.
2274[17:25:25] <_Fremen_> EdePopede: in that case, I will sacrifice some security for stability :D.
2275[17:25:51] <_Fremen_> EdePopede: yep, it is always a trade off.
2276[17:26:02] <EdePopede> buster is about to come btw, so things shouldn't be that bad anymore
2498[19:38:50] *** Dragone2 is now known as Dragone2|Away
2499[19:39:28] *** Quits: daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2500[19:40:24] <JohnDoe2> I have a UEFI only amd64 system (hp laptop). Installed Debian 9.9, selected to use the whole disk. Upon install finishing, I rebooted the machine which is now displaying a grub prompt. Am I missing something?
2546[19:57:50] <viqas> weird question - i did an apt-get upgrade last night, it updated maria db (mysql-common (1:10.3.15+maria~stretch) over (1:10.3.14+maria~stretch)) but now i am facing a slowdown on my wedding site and wrath from my fiancee
2547[19:57:59] <viqas> is there a way to roll it back
2593[20:09:37] <JohnDoe2> initially it complained about 2004 not existing, so I omitted that. Then it gave me 0002,0000,2002,3001,2001,0001 as stated. Then after -Bb 1 it made ubuntu disappear and omitted 0001 at the end of the list.
2600[20:12:58] <JohnDoe2> well that's awkward, I'm still getting the grub menu. I videotaped the screen to catch that error that appears before the grub menu. it says "error: no such device: fe44ab28-"
2601[20:13:05] *** Quits: ghoti (~paul@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
2615[20:21:55] <JohnDoe2> ok seems I was on the right path. if I select the boot device manually, I get 2 entries for the same single internal ssd. First one is ubuntu, second one is debian
2645[20:36:38] <rany> jhutchins, sorry if this may seem silly but are you booting in uefi mode... usually mbr matters if you are doing csm boot. check you bios settings
2726[21:12:28] <magic_ninja> I need to find a system-restore like solution with a nice easy-to-manage GUI. I'm more worried about system config getting messed up than I am losing my data.
2782[21:39:25] <jhutchins> Actually on the device now. fdisk shows a gpt partition table. BIOS is set to boot in legacy mode. If I switch to UEFI it says no bootable device.
2783[21:39:43] <jhutchins> fdisk does not appear to have the option to mark a boot flag in gpt.
2784[21:40:13] *** Joins: hele (~hele@replaced-ip)
2793[21:43:23] <rant> jmcnaught: I removed one of two disks I had on a USB dock I was using for file sharing.. the /media/HGST3TB, I had stopped nfs, samba, did swapoff on the swapfile that was on the disk, moved all the data from it to the other drive, removed it from fstab and exports, and did exportfs -a and unmounted the disk
2794[21:43:25] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2796[21:44:14] <jhutchins> It appears that the efi partition is correctly the one with the boot flag.
2797[21:44:26] <rant> if this was the cause, systemd is total shit.. I went through every process of properly removing a non-essential disk and now the entire system is broken
2804[21:47:41] <rant> jhutchins: there is nothing to argue with this.. if in fact removing a USB media from /media caused the ENTIRE SYSTEM to fail, its shit.
2805[21:47:51] <jmcnaught> rant: which Debian suite is it?
2806[21:47:58] <jhutchins> rant: It's likely grub is the culprit, not systemd.
2807[21:48:00] <rant> I'm still not convinced it is the cause
2809[21:48:13] <rant> I dont see how grub has anything to do with this
2810[21:48:20] <rant> the system has been up over two months
2811[21:48:28] <rant> the issue just occured within the last week
2812[21:48:35] *** Quits: dr_gonzo (~dr_gonzo_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2813[21:48:44] <rant> jmcnaught: it is running buster amd64
2814[21:48:49] <jmcnaught> maybe ask in #systemd, they might have seen that 'Failed to set invocation ID for unit: File exists' error before
2815[21:49:52] <jhutchins> rant: Have you commented out any nfs mounts in your fstab (assuming you're not automounting)?
2816[21:49:55] <rant> I googled the crap out of that error got nowhere. I think this is related to dependencies.. some domino fell and then they all fell
2819[21:51:31] <rant> jhutchins: as I said, and my history reflects, when I removed that disk, I did swapoff /media/HGST3TB/swap, commented out the lines for that disk in exports and fstab, did the exportfs -a, stopped nfs and samba, changed all samba entries to point to the new locations on /media/WL3TB and then unmounted the disk
2823[21:53:10] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2824[21:53:18] <jhutchins> rant: I repeat my question. Have you disabled all network filesystem mounts?
2825[21:53:34] <jhutchins> rant: Also, which release and kernel are you on?
2826[21:54:09] <rant> jhutchins: I'm not going to repeat my answer.. cause its obvious from looking at the log, samba, nfs, and everything else can't start.. and I already said I stopped them and redid their configs
2829[21:54:43] <rant> its the stock buster kernel 4.19.0-2-amd64
2830[21:54:52] <jhutchins> Well, there you go.
2831[21:54:59] <jhutchins> !debian-next
2832[21:54:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2833[21:55:30] <jhutchins> It's fairly likely to be kernel related.
2838[21:56:41] <jhutchins> rant: "I redid the configs" does not directly answer what I asked. It appears to be attempting to mount network filesystems.
2839[21:56:59] <jhutchins> rant: You appear more interested in complaining than in solving the problem though, so I'm done.
2840[21:58:09] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2844[22:00:47] <rant> thats not complaining thats restating the obvious.. I said multiple times I shut them down and changed their configs and I already showed they wont restart
2845[22:01:08] <rant> so if you know how something can be mounting shares when its not running, then you know something I dont
2846[22:02:30] <rant> I'll ask again later in #debian-next and #systemd since this is obviously beyond our scope..
2847[22:04:23] <somiaj> jhutchins: I think efi partitions might need more than a 'boot flag', for a GPT partition table esp flag/efi flag as well.
2897[22:32:37] <somiaj> jhutchins: maybe its an issue with your firmware, I know some uefi firmware is buggy.
2898[22:32:59] <somiaj> or check your firmware configuration. It seems your firmware is catching something that makes it think it can't boot, but then boots anyways.
2899[22:33:54] <jhutchins> I messed with it a bit, toggled non-existant boot devices, didn't get anywhere.
2900[22:34:15] *** Quits: acitripper (~acidtripp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2901[22:34:19] <jhutchins> I have yet to build a successful EFI Debian.
2902[22:34:40] <somiaj> is this on multiple machines/firmware, or just this one?
2911[22:35:26] <somiaj> for me, provided I boot the installer in EFI mode, it 'just works'.
2912[22:35:32] <jhutchins> This particular symptom just one Del Lattitude 6430u
2913[22:35:41] <somiaj> on my desktop I converted from legacy to efi took me a bit of fiddiling around though.
2914[22:36:01] <somiaj> Hmm, I've installed UEFI just fine on multiple dell machiens at work, 2 desktops and 2 laptops
2915[22:36:32] <somiaj> works just fine on my lattidue 3380 here.
2916[22:37:33] <jhutchins> When buster comes out I'll do a clean install, see how it goes from scratch.
2917[22:37:56] <jhutchins> Basically all I use this for is browser and ssh.
2918[22:38:19] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2919[22:38:51] <jhutchins> I only boot it for new kernels (or messing with EFI), so having to hit a key to boot is not a big deal.
2920[22:40:55] *** Quits: forgotmynick (uid24625@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2921[22:41:01] <jhutchins> I wonder if VMWare offers an EFI boot mode...
2922[22:41:44] <somiaj> even qemu does
2923[22:42:05] <somiaj> though I think you need some sort of uefi virtual firmware for this, and on my vms I don't have it installed, but I see the option in virt-manager
2966[23:05:45] <Synaptic> When buster will become the new stable, (in the next few months), me, that im running on the current stretch, in order to update to the new stable, i will just need to use "apt update" ?
2969[23:07:03] <Nickholas_The_Ga> hi all. i'm having problems with my personal assistant, Debbie. I keep telling her that I need to google maps a place to eat, but I'm getting all of these errors about cores fragmented and misplaced memory files, as well as a fault in ultra threading. should I just recap my mobo? i'm afraid that might melt the blast processing emulation chip. does
2970[23:07:04] <Nickholas_The_Ga> anyone have any experience in this? is it safe? help appreciated, thanks :)
2982[23:09:53] <Nickholas_The_Ga> does anyone here know how to help me out with this?
2983[23:10:06] <somiaj> well you should have 'stretch' in your sources, and need to change it to 'buster'. If you have 'stable' in your sources, that is not recommended at all.
2984[23:10:06] <Synaptic> Nickholas_The_Ga, if they know they will read and they will reply to you
2990[23:11:14] <somiaj> if you see lots of errors about bad cores in 'dmesg' you may just have a bad cpu/mobo.
2991[23:11:36] <Synaptic> somiaj, those are my current sources replaced-url
2992[23:12:00] <Nickholas_The_Ga> i tried that on my windows command prompt, but it gave me an error, sorry. I'll see about replacing the blast processor chip tomorrow.
2994[23:13:06] <somiaj> Synaptic: Yea those are good sources, you'll have to change stretch to buster before you upgrade. This is what you want, as you should only dot he upgrade when you have the time to do it right (and be prepared for the case it breaks -- usually it doesn't but it can)
3010[23:18:43] <trCody> hello community, i'm on debian 9 since some time and i'm thinking about deb sid (testing) as main os.. someone doing this and have some experience in this? like how often does it crash? is it usefull as a main os? vanishing programms? etc
3012[23:18:59] <Nickholas_The_Ga> Synaptic, every time i look at you, i fail to comprehend how a neanderthal like you could have even a single synapse fire any minute. if yuou open your fucking mouth one more time, I will shit directly into it. I will cum straight to your house and remove the blast processing unit straight from your frame.
3013[23:19:26] <trCody> some content would be nice
3030[23:21:38] <somiaj> trCody: if you run sid, packages in sid will break. Many use it as their main desktop just fine. But one should knwo debian well to do this, and one should expect that they spend time fixing their computer instead of using their computer.
3031[23:22:06] <somiaj> trCody: if, when, how it breaks always changes. Sometimes the fixes are easy, others they are not.
3039[23:26:56] <ganoush> that was the end of the experiment, fallen back to stable ever since, sometimes with backports
3040[23:27:05] <hypn0> there are sid based distros - vsido, etc
3041[23:27:05] <somiaj> trCody: what info do you want, you can look up the freeze schedule, but testing right now is close to stable, and the only changes are going to be mostly rc bug fixes. So if you want something with newer software than stretch, but don't want to wait for buster's relase, running it right now will mostly be just fine, minus timely security fixes.
3058[23:29:40] <somiaj> Synaptic: be hard to list all the differences, there have been lots of major software transitions since stretch was released into buster.
3059[23:29:58] <annadane> Synaptic, if you just need bluetooth to work you can try the kernel from stretch-backports
3073[23:34:44] <hypn0> you might need to install something
3074[23:35:31] <somiaj> Synaptic: try to see why it is not beign detected (make sure it isn't a firmware issue, which might be fixable on stretch)
3075[23:35:33] *** Quits: Nevermin_ (~Nevermind@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3076[23:35:57] <Synaptic> the problem is that i cannpot find proper guide for my card
3077[23:36:02] <somiaj> Synaptic: but in general almost all drivers are included in the linux kernel, installing the 4.19 kernel from stretch-backports will see if the kernel supports that hardware. If it doesn't, it won't in buster either.
3078[23:36:10] <Synaptic> for debian, found something for mint, but i dont want to mess with it
3084[23:39:50] <somiaj> I don't know, look it up. But trying a backports kernel isn't that hard and will quickly tell you if it supports the hardware or not
3085[23:40:01] <raidghost> I wonder why i getting "Multicore Par2 Not available" when its allready installed
3087[23:40:36] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3088[23:40:42] <Synaptic> somiaj, somebody told me to avoid to backport too much.... but you can tell me way to do it?
3089[23:41:40] <somiaj> well one should only use backports for software one needs (not just blinding install stuff from there because it is newer). In this case a newer kenrel is something you may need for that hardware
3090[23:41:56] <somiaj> also kernesl are quite standalone packages, not much issue in getting one from stretch backports
3091[23:41:57] <ganoush> apt pinning
3092[23:42:00] <somiaj> !stretc-backports
3093[23:42:00] <Synaptic> 4.15 has last mint
3094[23:42:04] <somiaj> !stretch-backports
3095[23:42:05] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See replaced-url
3096[23:42:44] <somiaj> Synaptic: go follow those instructions, once you have the stretch-backports sources added, apt update, then apt -t stretch-backports install linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64
3097[23:43:03] <Synaptic> k
3098[23:43:21] <Synaptic> strwetch wich kernel it is?
3099[23:43:25] <Synaptic> stretch*
3100[23:43:49] *** Ametrine is now known as Butt3rfly
3101[23:44:19] <Synaptic> i will try that anywy
3102[23:44:39] <hypn0> I got 4.14.x
3103[23:45:06] <jhutchins> Synaptic: Is your PA software something from debian?
3104[23:45:28] <jhutchins> ,kernels
3105[23:45:29] <somiaj> Synaptic: that will pull in the latest stretch-backports kernel which is 4.19
3134[23:48:26] <somiaj> velix: I thought they served similar purpose, of manging source installs in /usr/local
3135[23:48:27] <Synaptic> somiaj, after put source backports and install it, i need to remove that source? or keep it there?
3136[23:48:44] <velix> somiaj: checkinstall is creating deb files.
3137[23:48:55] <somiaj> Synaptic: the source is setup safely that it can stay there. Note the command I gave you to isntall from it had a -t stretch-backports in it. Packages will only be installed from there if you explicity ask
3138[23:48:57] <velix> somiaj: So you can distribute it to other computers.
3139[23:49:10] <Synaptic> ok
3140[23:49:24] <jhutchins> Synaptic: No harm in leaving it there, you will get updates to only packages installed from backports (from backports).
3141[23:49:29] <velix> somiaj & jhutchins: I'm really in a small shock... checkinstall is damn useful.
3149[23:50:30] <jhutchins> velix: I hadn't seen your (correct) syntax for the query. I can never remember it.
3150[23:51:04] <velix> jhutchins: Hehe, no problem. You've helped me.
3151[23:51:31] <velix> Seems like checkinstall won't make it in final release, since it's frozen?
3152[23:51:50] <velix> Just used the one from sid, works on buster.
3153[23:51:50] <somiaj> velix: check that bug report I linked, if you can fix that bug maybe it will be added. It also may appear in buster-backports after the release.
3154[23:52:06] <jhutchins> Yeah, what somiaj said.
3155[23:52:11] <velix> somiaj: yeah, this might confuse many users :/
3156[23:52:36] <somiaj> hmm, wonder why they didn't try to fix it, says it was fixed upstream. Maybe the matainer didn't have time to get a new package in before the freeze (That is an older bug)
3163[23:54:43] <somiaj> yea, the fact that the bug report had no reply, seems the matainer doesn't consider this a priority for debian. There hasn't been any updates to check install since 2013
3169[23:56:46] <somiaj> velix: yea, just looks like no one is using it much anymore, last major release was 2013, there have been some bug fixes, but I think due to limited upstream support they just removed it (maybe in favor of newer tools which you may want to look into). If what you want is to nicely make .debs from source, debian helper has improved a lot.
3170[23:57:15] <somiaj> On the webpage, last new istem was 2011
3171[23:57:31] <somiaj> and 1.6.2 (version in strech) was released in 2009
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3173[23:57:52] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3174[23:58:07] <velix> somiaj: perhaps there's an alternative I don't know. Thanks for investigating it