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• 118[01:03:34] <magic_ninja> How should I divide up a new debian install? I have a 1TB disk. I would like to keep my config files and such in /home but I don't know if I should have multiple partitions or just install the system on a single /
• 119[01:03:57] <Chex> magic_ninja: I just do the whole thing, with LVM
• 120[01:04:03] <Chex> I install on a small SSD, so I dont really care
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• 122[01:04:10] <Chex> 250GB SSD
• 123[01:04:20] <magic_ninja> The idea is that I can save application configurations and all my files if I have to reinstall the system.
• 124[01:04:33] <Chex> ah I dont bother with that
• 125[01:04:57] <Chex> just take a disk image with Acronis every once in a while
• 126[01:05:21] <Chex> and all my data is on /data on a separate RAID5 array
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• 128[01:05:35] <annadane> acronis?
• 129[01:05:43] <Chex> acronis, yep
• 130[01:05:50] <annadane> ,v acronis
• 131[01:05:51] <judd> No package named 'acronis' was found in amd64.
• 132[01:06:21] <Chex> replaced-url
• 133[01:06:32] *** Joins: dteselkin (~dteselkin@replaced-ip)
• 134[01:06:59] <EdePopede> but why?
• 135[01:07:14] <Chex> to get my system back if my / gets blowned up
• 136[01:07:22] <EdePopede> ok, this convinces me.
• 137[01:07:34] <EdePopede> they call it "Cyber Protection"
• 138[01:07:39] <Chex> meh
• 139[01:07:49] <EdePopede> "Create an exact, bit-by-bit replica of a disk on a second hard drive"
• 140[01:07:51] *** Quits: Comp11 (~Comp11@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 141[01:07:53] <EdePopede> dd?
• 142[01:08:00] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 143[01:08:02] <Chex> I just boot the utility and image it
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• 145[01:08:03] <EdePopede> "Back up all the contents of a hard drive to a single compressed file"
• 146[01:08:05] <EdePopede> tar/cpio?
• 147[01:08:05] <Chex> yeah dd would work fine, too, but I am a tools idiot
• 148[01:08:22] <Chex> everytime i try to use dd I mess something up
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• 150[01:08:54] <EdePopede> lots of options, try to stay with those you will need
• 151[01:09:09] <humpled> pick a plan
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• 153[01:09:42] <EdePopede> and a full disk image is simple as can be. dd if=$src of=$dest (optional bs and skip and count)
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• 155[01:09:56] <humpled> who needs a full disk image though
• 156[01:10:07] <EdePopede> easy solution
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• 159[01:10:30] <EdePopede> i can loop mount it later and pick the files i need until i restore them
• 160[01:10:38] <EdePopede> talkin'bout /home
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• 163[01:10:56] <humpled> so you only really need some of it
• 164[01:11:12] <EdePopede> i don't need all of it all the time
• 165[01:11:37] <EdePopede> reinstalling is always also cleaning up for me
• 166[01:12:57] <humpled> hmm,
• 167[01:13:20] <humpled> so you tidy up by putting everything in the cupboard, including the dust, then later just get out what you need
• 168[01:14:26] <EdePopede> not the dust, just all the stuff that falls into my hands
• 169[01:15:29] <EdePopede> i don't have hours of hd video here for editing, and media is what fills the disks
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• 171[01:16:21] <EdePopede> i really don't care about even some GB more or less which are laying around somewhere in $HOME
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• 173[01:19:02] <Chex> EdePopede: dd if=$src
• 174[01:19:05] <Chex> of=$dest
• 175[01:19:07] <Chex> my problem with this
• 176[01:19:12] <Chex> is how to restore it to a boot partition again
• 177[01:19:20] <Chex> backing it up is fine
• 178[01:19:29] <Chex> but how the F do you restore it so it actually boots again?
• 179[01:19:37] <ksk> Chex: eh? dd if=src of=/dev/sdx
• 180[01:19:50] <EdePopede> the mbr? a sector is 512 byte and you need 1 such block
• 181[01:19:57] <Chex> ksk: ive tried that, doesnt work
• 182[01:20:02] <Chex> never ever boots
• 183[01:20:04] <ksk> replaced-url
• 184[01:20:10] <EdePopede> add bs=512 count=1
• 185[01:20:14] <Chex> nope
• 186[01:20:17] <Chex> doesnt work for me.
• 187[01:20:31] <Chex> 'system not found'
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• 189[01:20:56] <EdePopede> sure you used /dev/sdX and not /dev/sdX1 or so?
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• 191[01:20:58] <ksk> maybe a grub-instal will solve that, not sure though.
• 192[01:21:08] <dvs> that what I think
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• 194[01:21:28] <Chex> this is a pretty insane document to image a boot system and restore it
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• 196[01:21:32] <Chex> acronis is 100 times easier
• 197[01:21:43] <humpled> about how long does it take to dd a terabyte?
• 198[01:21:46] <dvs> and clonezilla aint' bad either
• 199[01:22:04] <EdePopede> if you don't get it manually, a simple shell script also would do the job
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• 207[01:23:44] <Chex> EdePopede: yeah, I am just saying, every time I try to use dd, it fails badly for me, hence why I use the lolsumer tools like acronis
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• 213[01:26:57] <EdePopede> chex: the only time i messed up my booting was with the debian installer :D
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• 217[01:28:37] <Chex> EdePopede: actually I have a usecase for this soon, I want to upgrade my Lenovo laptop from stretch to buster when it is released, I will do the dd backup of the drive before I upgrade, and then ill try to restore it onto a external drive for shiz and gigs
• 218[01:28:59] <Chex> and see if it boots
• 219[01:29:22] <EdePopede> entire drive or partitions + mbr?
• 220[01:29:27] <dvs> Chex, so why not copy it to an external in the first place?
• 221[01:29:53] <joze> why are mbr so bloated nowadays?
• 222[01:29:58] <Chex> dvs: because I want the backup image to be portable
• 223[01:30:10] <EdePopede> bloated? 512 bytes?
• 224[01:30:10] <joze> is it smartphones fault?
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• 229[01:30:50] <joze> uefi
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• 231[01:32:13] <Terrell> Lady_Aleena, arw you heer
• 232[01:32:20] <EdePopede> isn't the first time users get confronted with something more than just mbr. there are some partition types for boot managers.... and remember acronis?
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• 234[01:32:53] <EdePopede> uefi, well. you shall not do things you shall not do.
• 235[01:33:17] <humpled> mbrs seem to be 2k now
• 236[01:33:54] <EdePopede> and iirc it also was something with DRM. don't allow the crap to be played on "non trustworthy" systems
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• 238[01:34:37] <EdePopede> humpled: isn't this the "too many sectors" thing related to disks on USB? can't use my 4TB externally.
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• 240[01:35:10] <EdePopede> so they report 1/4 of the # of sectors with 4 times the size or so
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• 242[01:38:49] <humpled> actually this disk is weird
• 243[01:40:40] <Terrell> Lady_Aleena, arw you heer
• 244[01:41:12] <ksk> EdePopede: didnt the blocksize of hdds increase some time ago? or like, whats reported to os increased, using same size internally. can vaqely remember something like that
• 245[01:41:20] <ksk> EdePopede: you did setup with GPT I suppose?
• 246[01:41:42] <EdePopede> first GPT one i had was an USB disk formatted NTFS. no idea if it is formatted properly, but works in debian, so what. i think it has a protective MBR, also looked at a dump of the start area.
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• 250[01:42:58] <EdePopede> ksk: could be, but no idea of it really did or the disk just tricks the OS. and i don't think you mean those blocks, whatever they were called, used by windows?
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• 254[01:45:06] <EdePopede> ksk: ah, i did. wanted to get rid of this "4 partitions only" crap with old MBR. and i still don't feel like having partitions of some TBs.
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• 259[01:50:45] <ksk> as long as its not "PBs" I see no problem :P
• 260[01:50:57] <ksk> (and even these do work, hardware raid but still..)
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• 262[01:51:38] <ksk> EdePopede: I was talkin about this: replaced-url
• 263[01:51:58] <ksk> but I never had to actually care about that up to until now, everything just worked if I remember correctly
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• 268[01:53:08] <EdePopede> ah thanks, could be the info i need for my 4T one on USB
• 269[01:53:29] <EdePopede> reports around 2TB only and the partitioning also isn't recognized properly
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• 272[01:53:48] <COOurb> H
• 273[01:53:59] <ksk> EdePopede: are you using parted to determine that? (parted /dev/device; print;)
• 274[01:54:15] <ksk> COOurb: I
• 275[01:54:18] <COOurb> I can't run linux, it writes "no such device"
• 276[01:54:22] <rwp> I've grown to like GPT for the regularity of it. And the lack of small limits.
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• 278[01:54:40] <COOurb> I load it first from usb-hdd converter
• 279[01:54:54] <COOurb> then install disk into case so now it prints this
• 280[01:55:01] <EdePopede> ksk: the message when i plug it in
• 281[01:55:20] <EdePopede> but could also be the usb adaptor, maybe it was *too* cheap ;)
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• 283[01:57:11] <EdePopede> it also has its problem sometims, and then the disk gets resetted. reconnecting usually solves the problem. i suspect it to be something electric. had a ps/2 mouse a long time ago with an adaptor where i also had to reattach it occasionally and touch the contacts
• 284[01:57:56] <EdePopede> rwp: there was a time when 528MB sounded like a really huge disk to have ;)
• 285[01:58:10] <EdePopede> what about 4K 3D videos?
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• 287[01:59:18] <jmcnaught> COOurb: are you trying to boot the installer?
• 288[01:59:40] <COOurb> no
• 289[01:59:56] <ksk> !fixmbr
• 290[01:59:56] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
• 291[02:00:00] <COOurb> I made a copy of system to new disk so then load it from it - everything was fine
• 292[02:00:02] <ksk> COOurb: for you.
• 293[02:00:24] <ksk> I suspect this is the problem, not 100% sure here though.
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• 297[02:02:09] <salerace> 12
• 298[02:03:30] <dvs> no 14!
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• 301[02:04:46] <rwp> EdePopede, Yes! My first hard drive was a 10MB IBM PC 5150 clone. And I still remember a Fujitsu 520MB SCSI drive fondly.
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• 305[02:05:31] <EdePopede> double sized 5.25" 10MB here :)
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• 307[02:06:51] <COOurb> can't do "mount /boot/efi"
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• 314[02:09:32] <EdePopede> ksk: run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI
• 315[02:09:37] <EdePopede> "on EFI"?
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• 317[02:09:52] <COOurb> ha
• 318[02:10:14] <COOurb> I didn't get it
• 319[02:10:28] <COOurb> I just run "mount /boot/efi"
• 320[02:10:39] <EdePopede> COOurb: either there is an entry in fstab for the mount point or the commands needs something to mount on it
• 321[02:10:48] <EdePopede> and i don't get this part of the factoid
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• 324[02:11:41] <Terrell> Lady_Aleena, arw you heer
• 325[02:12:32] <ksk> oh, efi. sorry no Idea, did not use it yet.
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• 327[02:13:33] <COOurb> seams working now
• 328[02:13:38] <COOurb> but still loading
• 329[02:14:21] <EdePopede> the other pc has uefi. found out that live runs with both uefi and bios loaders fine.
• 330[02:14:38] <COOurb> I moved system from hdd to ssd smaller size. Should I make some changes to "enhance work debian with ssd"?
• 331[02:16:29] <EdePopede> "moved"? you copied the partition or how?
• 332[02:17:14] <COOurb> made partition + "cp -a"
• 333[02:17:21] <COOurb> clonezilla failed several times
• 334[02:17:27] <EdePopede> err
• 335[02:17:33] <EdePopede> and you want this to boot?
• 336[02:17:38] <COOurb> Alread ybooted
• 337[02:17:44] <COOurb> ant it works
• 338[02:17:47] <COOurb> and*
• 339[02:18:32] <EdePopede> and what changed since it booted last time?
• 340[02:18:53] <COOurb> changed where?
• 341[02:19:11] <EdePopede> you say it booted already and now it doesn't
• 342[02:19:18] <EdePopede> so something must be different
• 343[02:19:20] <COOurb> dow it DOES
• 344[02:19:22] <COOurb> ah
• 345[02:19:24] <COOurb> you mean that
• 346[02:19:26] <COOurb> ok
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• 348[02:19:40] <COOurb> ssd was on usb-to-hdd cable
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• 351[02:19:58] <EdePopede> ah and now it is internal
• 352[02:20:06] <COOurb> yeah
• 353[02:20:28] <EdePopede> you said you get a device not found error. is it grub or the pc (boot manager)?
• 354[02:20:36] <COOurb> So I think grub just finds this "cable" as anotehr device
• 355[02:20:50] <COOurb> grub
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• 359[02:20:58] <EdePopede> so you reach grub
• 360[02:21:00] <COOurb> it asks me wht kind of debian I wanna load
• 361[02:21:16] <COOurb> yeah, but without that fancy background
• 362[02:21:20] <COOurb> simple blue
• 363[02:21:20] <EdePopede> hm the blocklist could help in its command line
• 364[02:21:28] <COOurb> dud, I already fixed it
• 365[02:21:39] <COOurb> I just skipped mount /boot/efi
• 366[02:21:46] <EdePopede> on the live DVD the bios and uefi versions also look different :)
• 367[02:21:54] <COOurb> so now debian works from ssd that is internal
• 368[02:22:08] <EdePopede> oh that... sounds good?
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• 370[02:22:12] <COOurb> yep
• 371[02:22:34] <COOurb> but lack of information about moving OS between devices is killing me
• 372[02:22:50] <COOurb> even clonezilla (oh "it helps you anyway")
• 373[02:23:01] <COOurb> it just failed every time
• 374[02:23:02] <EdePopede> never used such tools
• 375[02:23:31] <COOurb> so I found some stack* forums and this advice - just copy, fix fstab, install grub
• 376[02:23:54] <EdePopede> ah, grub at the end. ok.
• 377[02:25:18] <COOurb> is is possible that grub just takes data from old hdd?
• 378[02:25:25] <COOurb> while it was inside
• 379[02:25:59] <EdePopede> should depend on the config what it does
• 380[02:28:18] <COOurb> ok, nvm, it works, it's over, I have to rest and have some fun
• 381[02:28:33] <COOurb> no friday night
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• 385[02:32:51] <EdePopede> with saturday morning waiting at the door
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• 391[02:35:36] <COOurb> I found advice not to use SWAP with ssd
• 392[02:35:40] <COOurb> Is it ok?
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• 394[02:36:18] <COOurb> I mean, at least it should store virtual memory somewhere while actual phys memory is full
• 395[02:36:18] <EdePopede> i think so. lots of write actions
• 396[02:36:40] <bindi> if your machine actually needs swap, an ssd is a great option for that actually
• 397[02:36:45] <ksk> nah, thats 2000 knowledge.
• 398[02:36:46] <milkt> depends on your memory size mostly
• 399[02:36:49] <ksk> just use swap.
• 400[02:36:50] <EdePopede> on the other hand it is *much* faster than hdd. i heard xD
• 401[02:37:26] <COOurb> I have 8GB of RAM
• 402[02:37:28] <ksk> replaced-url
• 403[02:37:44] <EdePopede> i have no problems running live with 4GB. on the other hand there's no internet connection for that pc.
• 404[02:37:51] <ksk> and nowadays SSD have good wear leveling, and you can write some 1000P to them - swap should be no issue
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• 409[02:38:50] <COOurb> Also, on Windows 10 I have ssd with "pagination file" that was installed while Windows knowing this is ssd.
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• 411[02:40:33] <winny> isn't that used for hibernate, and for virtual memory swapping ;)
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• 413[02:40:54] <ksk> which basicly is swap. yes.
• 414[02:41:29] <winny> you almost always want a swap if you have disk space for it
• 415[02:41:42] <winny> worst case you can just disable it if you find you really don't need it
• 416[02:41:47] <ksk> the link I posted even tells you why..
• 417[02:42:12] <winny> but otoh, say you don't provision a partition for swap, you have to either resize your partitions, or use a swapfile, which is going to be even slower
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• 424[02:55:29] <BuzzardBuzz|2> is there a bit torrent download for a recent Debian desktop for LXDE?
• 425[02:55:51] *** BuzzardBuzz|2 is now known as Buzzard
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• 431[02:58:50] <Buzzard> Maybe the name has changed to LXQT now?
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• 434[02:59:25] <swift110> hey all
• 435[02:59:33] <Buzzard> hello
• 436[02:59:46] <swift110> how are you Buzzard
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• 438[03:00:06] <Buzzard> I am have a good day, hope you are too
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• 441[03:05:07] <Buzzard> I found it here replaced-url
• 442[03:05:42] <Buzzard> the name is still LXDE
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• 444[03:06:19] <EdePopede> "current" is stretch, so not really brandnew
• 445[03:06:36] <EdePopede> i think i've read they want to switch and rename the qt into lxde later?
• 446[03:06:46] <Buzzard> oh, stretch is now stable?
• 447[03:06:59] <Buzzard> for production?
• 448[03:07:12] *** Quits: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 449[03:07:20] <Buzzard> Deb 9?
• 450[03:07:21] <EdePopede> !releases
• 451[03:07:22] <dpkg> See replaced-url
• 452[03:07:28] <EdePopede> hm
• 453[03:07:35] <EdePopede> buster is about to arrive
• 454[03:08:05] <EdePopede> !codenames
• 455[03:08:05] <dpkg> Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. replaced-url
• 456[03:08:13] *** Quits: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip) (Quit: salerace)
• 457[03:08:32] <Buzzard> looks like that is stretch like you said
• 458[03:09:09] <Buzzard> and Deb 9
• 459[03:09:20] <EdePopede> oh, 3 more years for LTS, but i don't think i will.
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• 462[03:11:29] <Buzzard> thank you for that information
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• 534[04:33:34] <fling> What is writing /var/log/wtmp ? How to determine why is it so big?
• 535[04:33:46] <mason> fling: It's not really that big. It's sparse.
• 536[04:34:10] <fling> uses 300M
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• 540[04:36:33] <ksk> 23M over here ;)
• 541[04:36:46] <ksk> man wtmp btw..
• 542[04:37:29] <ksk> do you have lots of users logged in?
• 543[04:38:35] <fling> ksk: no
• 544[04:39:15] <ksk> high uptime? I would just not bother btw ;)
• 545[04:39:42] <fling> journalctl prints lot of agetty[3642]: /dev/tty1: cannot open as standard input: No such file or directory
• 546[04:39:49] <fling> Should I disable agetty service?
• 547[04:40:00] <ksk> fling: maybe. lxc container? :)
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• 549[04:40:09] <fling> ksk: lxd container
• 550[04:40:25] <ksk> iirc you need to mask the service with lxc/lxd to get rid of that message - should be easy to google the details
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• 553[04:43:50] <fling> ksk: disabled the services
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• 556[04:44:17] <fling> Why is debian using systemd? Is there an official statement to read?
• 557[04:44:38] <ksk> because it is da future.
• 558[04:45:08] <ksk> and, if you are a sysadmin, I would think you will get to understand why if you for example wrote a systemd unit file
• 559[04:45:16] <ksk> vs. hacking an init script in bash.
• 560[04:46:19] <ksk> also take a look at replaced-url
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• 564[04:47:50] <ksk> "Systemd represents a leap in terms of functionality, one that is comparable to Debian’s existing improvements over other operating systems. People are starting to expect this functionality when running Linux, and missing it could, in the long term, make Debian lose its purpose." sums it up really good if you asked me ;)
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• 591[05:13:06] <annadane> there's probably some discussion i can find of the technical committee when they decided on it
• 592[05:13:13] <annadane> but uh, search the internet i guess
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• 628[05:59:54] <kuarq> Hello I installed Debian Buster on Ideapad 330-15ICH, but I can't find way to check battery status. On Stretch battery status visible
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• 632[06:03:02] <kuarq> replaced-url
• 633[06:06:14] <Franknog> kuarq: try acpi -b
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• 636[06:08:58] <kuarq> No output from "acpi -b"
• 637[06:09:21] <kuarq> in dmesg - [ 9.497309] battery: ACPI: Battery Slot [BAT0] (battery absent)
• 638[06:10:46] <Franknog> kuarq: that's weird
• 639[06:11:48] <Franknog> kuarq: ok, on the forums a user updated his BIOS and that fixed it
• 640[06:13:58] <kuarq> give link, please
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• 642[06:15:34] <Franknog> kuarq: replaced-url
• 643[06:15:57] <Franknog> kuarq: I typed that by hand because I'm a tty, so I'm sorry if there's a typo
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• 645[06:17:40] <Franknog> kuarq: last numbers are 836463 sorry
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• 658[06:24:34] <kuarq> Ok thanks. I'l try it
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• 664[06:32:23] <Synaptic> hello
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• 666[06:33:18] <Franknog> hi~
• 667[06:33:23] <Synaptic> nohup: appending output to 'nohup.out'
• 668[06:33:32] <Synaptic> got this error running a .sh script
• 669[06:33:47] <Synaptic> no clue of what is this
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• 671[06:34:45] <Synaptic> its regarding this replaced-url
• 672[06:34:52] <Synaptic> without 2*
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• 676[06:37:43] <themill> doesn't look like much of an error to me
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• 719[07:33:02] <halt> morning, I was here yesterday trying to ask few things about the Debian AWS images in the Marketplace, but had not luck, then so let me try again, anyone around from the team who are building the official images ?
• 720[07:33:17] <themill> very unlikely
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• 722[07:36:22] <Franknog> halt: AWS already has Debian images, no?
• 723[07:36:57] <Franknog> halt: er, I don't work on them, but maybe I can help
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• 734[07:42:38] <kinky_nekoboi> has someone an idea how i could extract the used microcode loaded early by debian in a .bin format usable for my coreboot rom ?
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• 741[07:45:37] <phazon> halt: AMIs are maintained by noahm; you might try directing your inquiry to the mailing list: replaced-url
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• 754[08:11:02] <halt> phazon: Thanks I will contact them, and yes there are images for 8 and 9 on amd64, but ... no arm, no 10, and we can make some hardening improvements, and some aws integration improvements as well.
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• 759[08:16:15] <halt> Ok so ARM is in progress replaced-url
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• 842[09:27:18] <shtrb> What channel should I be looking about the new matrix debian team ?
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• 852[09:31:00] <phazon> shtrb: discussion occurs within matrix replaced-url
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• 854[09:32:06] <shtrb> Thanks !
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• 856[09:32:40] <RandomLinuxPerso> hey
• 857[09:32:53] <RandomLinuxPerso> anybody?
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• 881[09:50:20] <jaggz> know what would be nice? an x11 clipboard supporting vim-like lettered registers to choose a clipboard buffer.
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• 912[10:18:14] <alioui_> ramadhan karim
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• 931[10:38:16] <jaggz> chroot /path/chroot /usr/bin/rssh chroot: failed to run command ‘/usr/bin/rssh’: No such file or directory
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• 933[10:38:49] <jaggz> whycome?
• 934[10:38:58] <jaggz> I have /path/chroot/usr/bin/rssh
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• 936[10:40:02] <themill> is everything it needs also inside the chroot?
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• 940[10:43:23] <jaggz> themill, should be but I'm not 100% sure.
• 941[10:43:28] <jaggz> chroot("/path/chroot")=0; chdir("/")=0; execve("/usr/bin/rssh", ["/usr/bin/rssh"], [/* 48 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
• 942[10:43:41] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 943[10:43:56] <jaggz> strace shows it find the chroot dir (with lstat() calls), then chroot to it (the above commands)
• 944[10:44:01] <themill> what is /path/chroot/usr/bin/rssh?
• 945[10:44:08] <jaggz> a binary executable
• 946[10:44:17] <jaggz> oh.. it fails for /bin/bash too
• 947[10:44:29] <themill> what does ldd /path/chroot/usr/bin/rssh say?
• 948[10:44:42] <themill> (everything listed in ldd needs to be inside the chroot)
• 949[10:44:43] <jaggz> which is there (but I didn't copy the libs). rssh itself is an ssh that allows you to restrict the commands (to, say, scp only, and not login)
• 950[10:45:22] <jaggz> I did copy its dependency libs.. I'm not 100% sure where it's looking
• 951[10:45:34] <jaggz> but that ENOENT results in it not even stracing further
• 952[10:45:46] <jaggz> that is, it doesn't show any subsequent .. hrm.. lemme try ltrace
• 953[10:46:13] <jaggz> nothing useful there
• 954[10:46:24] <jaggz> so, I don't see the normal examining of the fs for libs
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• 956[10:47:22] <jaggz> hrm.. execve() does say that error can be caused by a shared lib not being found
• 957[10:47:42] <themill> yes, that would be the cause when the executable is there
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• 960[10:48:49] <jaggz> looks like one or more of my libs did NOT get copied over.. (I displace this from my own responsibility cuz I used someone's shell pipe through awk to gather all the libs) :)
• 961[10:49:16] <jaggz> ldd on rssh shows linux-vdso.so.1 which .. I don't see anywhere.
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• 965[10:51:15] <jaggz> themill, step in the right direction :) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 wasn't there either. once that one's in, I now get ‘/usr/bin/rssh’: Permission denied
• 966[10:51:36] <themill> well that's at least progress...
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• 968[10:53:59] <jaggz> I have a+x on all paths leading to it
• 969[10:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1517
• 970[10:54:45] <jaggz> (I'm just doing this all as root right now)
• 971[10:56:22] <jelly> jaggz: that vdso thing is virtual, provided by the kernel
• 972[10:56:52] <jaggz> jelly, wow that's interesting and new to me. thanks.
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• 974[10:57:15] <themill> yeah, and that's probably what confused your awk
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• 976[10:58:14] <jaggz> my awk just got defensive and says yours would have the same problem
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• 978[10:58:26] <jaggz> such an immature awk.
• 979[10:58:50] <jaggz> if I give the wrong path, it'll ENOENT me now.. but this EACCES's me with /bin/bash and /usr/bin/rssh
• 980[10:59:04] <jaggz> (I did not install all the libs for bash -- I don't actually want bash, but was just testing)
• 981[10:59:50] <jelly> I just came in, are you trying to learn how dynamically linked elf binaries work in linux, the hard way?
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• 983[11:00:13] <themill> jelly: in a chroot
• 984[11:00:30] <themill> jaggz: this partition isn't mounted noexec or nosuid or similar, is it?
• 985[11:01:13] <themill> jaggz: you copied in /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -- is it also +x?
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• 991[11:05:37] <jaggz> no it's naked of perms :)
• 992[11:05:45] <jaggz> works now
• 993[11:06:38] <jaggz> (note that the manpage, for eacces, does not mention the dependency libs)
• 994[11:06:45] <jaggz> but.. kewl
• 995[11:06:56] * jaggz offers themill and jelly green tea
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• 998[11:08:10] * jelly adds ginger, lemon
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• 1000[11:08:24] * themill is probably up to something stronger
• 1001[11:08:28] <themill> :)
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• 1011[11:13:51] <jaggz> scp isn't erroring, but just returning and no file copied. weird
• 1012[11:14:43] <jaggz> ssh shows rssh's login message (which explains that logins are restricted, etc.) so that's good.
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• 1014[11:15:08] <arosusi> Hello #debian.
• 1015[11:16:01] <arosusi> Maybe someone has interest in a little program that calculates the knights tour problem: replaced-url
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• 1025[11:21:33] *** Benedict is now known as Neobenedict
• 1026[11:21:45] <jaggz> you know, we would have a safer world if chroot jails were easy to set up
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• 1028[11:22:43] <jaggz> seems to get further if I make dev/console
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• 1031[11:24:07] <jelly> so there's an .onl TLD
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• 1036[11:28:11] <jaggz> connect(4, {sa_family=AF_UNIX, sun_path="/dev/log"}, 110) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
• 1037[11:28:23] <jaggz> strace shows a child of sshd exits right after that
• 1038[11:28:48] <jaggz> do I really need a whole syslogd running?
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• 1040[11:29:34] <nullbyte_> debian 10 will be release winter
• 1041[11:29:58] <jelly> nullbyte_: there's always winter, somewhere
• 1042[11:30:25] <jelly> possibly southern hemisphere winter this year, yes
• 1043[11:31:01] <jaggz> okay.. well I can't just mknod /dev/log with the same major/minor numbers as /dev/null :)
• 1044[11:31:03] <jaggz> connect(4, {sa_family=AF_UNIX, sun_path="/dev/log"}, 110) = -1 ECONNREFUSED (Connection refused)
• 1045[11:31:59] <jelly> jaggz: if you're looking for a minimal setup maybe try dropbear sshd instead of openssh
• 1046[11:32:21] <jaggz> ugh.. so close though
• 1047[11:32:26] <jelly> or provide an actual syslog socket there
• 1048[11:32:43] <jelly> that's what debian's packaging of postfix-in-chroot does
• 1049[11:33:04] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
• 1050[11:33:21] <jelly> [11:31] ~ => cat /etc/rsyslog.d/postfix.conf
• 1051[11:33:26] <jelly> $AddUnixListenSocket /var/spool/postfix/dev/log
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• 1054[11:34:33] <jaggz> does syslog need to be running in the chroot jail?
• 1055[11:34:39] <jelly> no
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• 1057[11:34:58] <jelly> but apparently sshd wants it
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• 1059[11:35:34] <jelly> so you can put an extra listener socket for the normal syslog into the chroot
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• 1065[11:36:32] * jelly looks at his own chroots
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• 1068[11:37:24] <jelly> yep, same thing
• 1069[11:37:26] <jelly> $AddUnixListenSocket /opt/chroots/squeeze-32bit-meridian16/dev/log
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• 1073[11:44:05] <jaggz> jelly, got it to create /dev/log .. yay
• 1074[11:44:14] <jaggz> one step forward..
• 1075[11:44:19] <jaggz> rssh_chroot_helper[8999]: new session for unknown user
• 1076[11:44:33] <jaggz> rssh_chroot_helper[8999]: chroot() failed, 1: Operation not permitted
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• 1079[11:46:07] <jelly> you can't chroot in a chroot?
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• 1086[11:49:21] <jelly> that "unknown user" might require providing /etc/passwd, /etc/group and NSS scaffolding (/etc/nsswitch.conf, /lib/.../libnss_files.so)
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• 1088[11:50:04] <jelly> or running nscd, putting a nscd socket and stealing users from outside root
• 1089[11:50:26] <jaggz> step by step!
• 1090[11:50:34] <jelly> as an extra benefit nscd will also make resolver library resolve hosts in addition to users
• 1091[11:50:41] <jaggz> yeah it wanted passwd and group.. had to make stripped versions of those
• 1092[11:51:03] <jaggz> now it looks like something's still trying to chroot to /home/username so.. working on that.
• 1093[11:51:12] <jelly> all this nss and pam crap is why embedded people don't bother with glibc
• 1094[11:51:15] <jaggz> (instead of /path/chroots/something)
• 1095[11:51:50] <jelly> jaggz: if your service is already chrooted, it won't see /path/chroots/something at all
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• 1098[11:56:22] <jaggz> jelly, hrm
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• 1100[11:56:43] <jaggz> yeah, I had to remove the chroot entry from /chroots/etc/rssh.conf
• 1101[11:56:55] <jaggz> looks like it was trying to double chroot
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• 1105[11:57:39] <jaggz> now the systemd and stuff do see the username, but something spits out "unknown user 4002" -- right out into my scp output
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• 1108[11:59:20] <user_Max> Which VPN is good in Your opinion?
• 1109[12:00:14] <tomreyn> one that works reliably, and provides the features and performance you desire.
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• 1118[12:03:10] <jaggz> unless those two are in conflict
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• 1127[12:07:45] <selimix> i want to debug and build kernel from source code, can someone share a weblink/guide to me
• 1128[12:07:57] <selimix> i dont know where to start
• 1129[12:09:44] <petn-randall> selimix: replaced-url
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• 1140[12:14:10] <selimix> petn-randall : thank you
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• 1146[12:20:51] <cer> pray to Jesus ! ATTENTION ! __ psychiatry ------------------------> is NOT a science, NEVER was a science, it is NOT a science at all and offers NOOOOOOOOOOOO cures at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________________ I live in israel and...this criminal state USED psychiatry to incarcerate me(2 times )+injected me with their very dangerous chemicals weapons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________now...the criminal state of Israel fo
• 1147[12:20:51] <cer> llow me by their secret thechnologies+want "fuck" me in psychiatry ! _______________ Jesus will judge them all ! ______________ pray to Jesus !
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• 1150[12:21:31] <bora> helo everybody
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• 1152[12:21:43] <bora> have a nice weekend all
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• 1154[12:22:55] <jaggz> finally.. geez
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• 1156[12:23:59] <bora> can anyone answer me guys which desktop enviroment are you using on your systems and whats are your advice about that
• 1157[12:24:02] *** Joins: czart_ (~czart@replaced-ip)
• 1158[12:25:11] <whjeon> XFCE :)
• 1159[12:25:17] <SZO> Kde :)
• 1160[12:25:44] <user_Max> LXDE, but I like more OpenBox
• 1161[12:25:47] <SZO> If its a lower spec system xfce, if it isn't try them all out and see what you like
• 1162[12:26:26] <user_Max> bora, replaced-url
• 1163[12:26:37] <whjeon> Couldn't agree more
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• 1168[12:27:33] <weedloser> XFCE and Mate
• 1169[12:27:50] <uio> Hi. Is it a security horror to keep using Jessie?
• 1170[12:28:43] <alioui_> uio: yes zombie start to pop out there
• 1171[12:28:55] <bora> ok thank you so much guys I prefer to choice Xfce
• 1172[12:29:19] <bora> because it s look simple and solid I think
• 1173[12:29:19] <uio> alioui_, So I should upgrade to stretch?
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• 1175[12:30:34] <SZO> In regards to LTS, I have never understood it. When A user sticks to a linux kernel, why? Would the future releases not provide what they need and more?
• 1176[12:30:56] *** Parts: alioui_ (~alioui_al@replaced-ip) ()
• 1177[12:31:02] <SZO> I have no field expierience
• 1178[12:31:25] <veikkoo> nobody uses gnome?
• 1179[12:31:31] <veikkoo> am I the only one
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• 1181[12:32:49] <melpy> yes
• 1182[12:32:53] <bora> veikkoo , you can move to xfce
• 1183[12:33:02] <uio> You all use Xfce??
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• 1186[12:33:29] <uio> I just switched to it a few days ago. So much better than LXDE.
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• 1188[12:34:18] <bora> I am using but I guess usually people uses Xfce
• 1189[12:34:35] <veikkoo> the good thing about gnome is that you dont have to waste your life configuring your settings
• 1190[12:34:49] <veikkoo> it just works out of the box
• 1191[12:35:24] <SZO> Idk how kde or xfce does not work that way aswell
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• 1194[12:35:50] <veikkoo> with xfce you have to tweak your panel settings etc
• 1195[12:36:05] <melpy> some people enjoy configuring things to their liking, so not a waste of life 'w'
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• 1197[12:36:37] <SZO> Gnome has some quirks I do not enjoy and it is a bit heavier on memory in my expierience, It is pleasant to look at though
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• 1200[12:37:27] <uio> veikkoo, Also, you can change things in like an hour with Xfce. Not too long.
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• 1202[12:37:41] <weedloser> veikkoo, same goes for mate
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• 1204[12:38:00] <weedloser> I usually go for mate on laptops and xfce on desktops
• 1205[12:38:11] <bora> yes I agree with SZO , Gnome heavy system resources
• 1206[12:38:20] <oiaohm> Depending on what I am setting up openbox, lxqt and xfce are the common 3 wm I use.
• 1207[12:38:55] <bora> it neccessary for Gnome3
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• 1210[12:39:41] <selimix> xfce +++
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• 1213[12:40:07] <SZO> I reallllyy enjoy KDE even if we are behind on the latest
• 1214[12:40:07] <oiaohm> Really the core of javascript in gnome shell is kind of a living nightmare.
• 1215[12:40:10] <bora> :) We love XFCE
• 1216[12:40:18] <uio> oiaohm, I find LXQt to be a nightmare. So many bugs.
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• 1218[12:41:07] <weedloser> gnome3 is a disaster.
• 1219[12:41:11] <weedloser> :))
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• 1221[12:41:32] <weedloser> mate, the gnome2 fork is so much better
• 1222[12:41:33] <uio> <3 Unity <3
• 1223[12:41:38] <melpy> prefer using just a wm like awesome/dwm over a DE, gnome/kde installs way too much gui bloatware, the initial timesink for configuring the wm is worth the effort
• 1224[12:41:45] <uio> lol
• 1225[12:42:13] <uio> melpy, I can't handle spending a whole weekend just to get a usuable UI.
• 1226[12:42:23] <oiaohm> uio: number of known bugs xfce is worse than lxqt. There was a reason why I said based on what I am doing.
• 1227[12:42:56] <melpy> well, you might only have to spend one weekend, then you can just back it up
• 1228[12:43:06] <SZO> I want the window managment of i3 in kde, if that happened it would be supreme elite
• 1229[12:43:07] <oiaohm> uio: different things really do glitch under xfce and run fine with lxqt and the reverse is true as well.
• 1230[12:43:11] <bora> gnome is good application some times
• 1231[12:43:22] <uio> oiaohm, Just a guess, but I suspect that there are more known bugs in XFCE because people actually use it.
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• 1233[12:44:04] <uio> oiaohm, Right, I mean, Thunar can't glitch in LXQt because it's not there. I do have a Thunar issue (wallpaper selector in settings).
• 1234[12:46:04] <uio> Also in XFCE, power management is not working for me. Sigh.
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• 1238[12:46:58] <oiaohm> lxqt power management does manage to work
• 1239[12:47:06] <oiaohm> uio: its really a mixed bag.
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• 1242[12:47:50] <uio> oiaohm, That was a good thing for LXQt. They seem to have something there.
• 1243[12:48:07] <melpy> tiling window manager = more effort to setup initially, but overtime you'll save so much time from increased productivity, and less reliance on mouse navigation/control.
• 1244[12:48:11] <uio> Do any of you have a working power management on XFCE?
• 1245[12:48:28] <bora> Yes I do
• 1246[12:48:32] <humpled> what is it supposed to do?
• 1247[12:48:39] <SZO> I feel like that issue is a git issue rabbit hole
• 1248[12:48:42] <uio> Sorry, re Jessie, Is it a bad idea to not switch to Stretch?
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• 1250[12:48:54] <uio> I just distro-ugraded and forgot to change the sources.
• 1251[12:48:56] <oiaohm> I can get xfce power management to work some of the time. qt based applications like vlc don't get alone with it all the time.
• 1252[12:49:10] <oiaohm> alone/along
• 1253[12:49:35] <uio> humpled, Dim screen after X seconds. Hibernate after Y minutes.
• 1254[12:49:38] <humpled> when power button is pressed: shut down, works for me :)
• 1255[12:49:51] <humpled> display blanking works
• 1256[12:49:58] <uio> humpled, What!
• 1257[12:50:07] *** Quits: walnut_burl (~oak@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1258[12:50:07] <uio> humpled, I can't get it to work.
• 1259[12:50:21] <uio> I may have too many competing DEs installed though.
• 1260[12:50:26] <oiaohm> humpled: having xfce display blanking kick in while playing a video because it forgoten about the message from vlc that its currently active really suxs.
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• 1262[12:50:46] <uio> But you actually have this feature working?
• 1263[12:50:49] <humpled> ooh dimming works too, didn't know about that
• 1264[12:50:56] <uio> I love the surprise when things actually work.
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• 1266[12:51:24] <bora> uio ; I can make changing of power management for example ; Icould take the Suspend of When Close Lid actually
• 1267[12:51:24] <uio> Right now my Wifi is connected, but the icon is spinning 'searching'.
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• 1269[12:51:45] <uio> bora, Oddly I can have close=hibernate. Just not the other stuff.
• 1270[12:51:48] <oiaohm> uio: display blank and off with debian testing I do have working in xfce. Other than the fact it switches off while qt applications are running at times when they have sent messages saying don't.
• 1271[12:51:53] <bora> are your using xfce really
• 1272[12:51:54] <uio> So, any ideas on this Jessie thing?
• 1273[12:52:00] <uio> xfce yep.
• 1274[12:52:09] <bora> hmm
• 1275[12:52:20] <oiaohm> uio: I am using xfce in debian testing. I know stable was a ass.
• 1276[12:52:29] <uio> uio, Ah.
• 1277[12:52:29] <SZO> uio: I think the only question would be, is taking your systems offline and risking downtime worth it to upgrade
• 1278[12:52:32] <uio> Voilà.
• 1279[12:53:02] <uio> SZO, Oh, this isn't a system. Really. Got a PocketCHIP and it's running stuff from 2016.
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• 1281[12:53:21] <uio> Don't want to break it, but I don't want to be wondering the webs with security holes.
• 1282[12:53:44] <uio> But, it shouldn't be an issue to use Jessie?
• 1283[12:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1524
• 1284[12:54:05] <uio> It downloaded like 100 Mb of stuff.
• 1285[12:54:30] <humpled> i don't get the point of screen dimming tbh
• 1286[12:54:34] <SZO> TIL what a PocketChip is
• 1287[12:54:35] <humpled> either you want it on or off
• 1288[12:54:40] <bora> Sorry I am talking about Strech
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• 1290[12:55:28] <oiaohm> uio: replaced-url
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• 1292[12:55:56] <uio> oiaohm, But security should be fine?
• 1293[12:56:06] <uio> I think they home-brewed a DE.
• 1294[12:56:07] <oiaohm> uio: from memory Jessie fully runs out of support June 30, 2020
• 1295[12:56:11] <SZO> oiaohm: LTS is until june 30, 2020
• 1296[12:56:16] <uio> Cool.
• 1297[12:56:17] <SZO> Wtf
• 1298[12:56:20] <bora> Stretch is much better
• 1299[12:56:23] <SZO> typed that at the same time
• 1300[12:56:25] <bora> actually
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• 1303[12:56:41] <oiaohm> uio: please not that is if have added the LTS repository.
• 1304[12:57:38] <uio> SZO, replaced-url
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• 1306[12:57:59] <SZO> Im looking at this thing, is its more capable than an rpi3
• 1307[12:58:32] <uio> SZO, No.
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• 1309[12:58:42] <SZO> its a cute little unit
• 1310[12:58:54] <uio> SZO, The advantage is that you don't have to spend 200 € just to get a screen and stuff.
• 1311[12:59:09] <oiaohm> uio: opps I got that kind of wrong on what is not supported. replaced-url
• 1312[12:59:26] <uio> SZO, Also, huge issue is that there is not a removable SD carde, so one has to flash.
• 1313[12:59:28] <oiaohm> uio: Linux without vlc is not that much use to me.
• 1314[12:59:51] <uio> So I hesitate to upgrade to Stretch for fear of breaking shit.
• 1315[12:59:51] <SZO> Also there is a standard of computing power one needs to be feasible
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• 1317[13:00:02] <uio> SZO, Right 500 is kinda low.
• 1318[13:00:16] <uio> SZO, But hey, why not test it out.
• 1319[13:00:22] <SZO> Id use that thing cli only
• 1320[13:00:34] <SZO> cute little ssh terminal for backup
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• 1322[13:00:54] <uio> I think the Jessie upgrade bricked it. Shit.
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• 1325[13:02:47] <SZO> Since you guys were talking about DE's, look into streamlink, its hosted on the deb repo's and it can be used for a variety of streams
• 1326[13:02:55] <SZO> Its a hidden gem
• 1327[13:03:07] <uio> Oh, no, we're good.
• 1328[13:03:18] <uio> Let's go for the stretch update.... living on the edge...
• 1329[13:03:33] <uio> A good Stretch update guide?
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• 1331[13:04:04] <uio> Oh no, does this require a kernel update?
• 1332[13:04:11] <uio> Don't want to do that.
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• 1334[13:04:32] <SZO> deb replaced-url
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• 1336[13:04:46] <SZO> thats the whole guide
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• 1344[13:17:09] <weedloser> replaced-url
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• 1348[13:20:31] <uio> What is the difference between dist-upgrade and upgrade?
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• 1352[13:25:34] <STMelon> replaced-url
• 1353[13:26:14] <SZO> Instead of going somewhere remote, lets do it lokally uio
• 1354[13:26:27] <SZO> type "man apt" into your terminal
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• 1356[13:27:12] <SZO> and always remeber debian provides you with one of the best instruction manuals, "man <binary name>"
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• 1368[13:39:45] <uio> There's even a man man!!
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• 1371[13:41:55] <SZO> I got you man
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• 1373[13:43:03] <weedloser> Don't link third party resources :/
• 1374[13:43:08] <weedloser> It's all in the apt manual.
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• 1380[13:45:19] <weedloser> replaced-url
• 1381[13:45:24] <weedloser> see the "APT" section
• 1382[13:46:02] <SZO> No, I just figured man should be known for "offline" help in dire situations
• 1383[13:49:30] <weedloser> Huh? That was a response to the 'itsfoss' link
• 1384[13:49:38] <weedloser> man is official documentation
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• 1386[13:50:12] <Led_Zeppelin> want to setup a small LAN with virtualbox. is there is a minimal debian installation? like with ~400MB?
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• 1392[13:52:52] <SZO> Led_Zeppelin: replaced-url
• 1393[13:53:05] <weedloser> A minimal debian I guess is just not selecting anything with tasksel during the installation, no?
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• 1395[13:53:29] <themill> Led_Zeppelin: it's entirely up to you as to what you install
• 1396[13:53:41] <Led_Zeppelin> weedloser, yeah but it seems I still need 1GB for some reason
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• 1399[13:53:52] <SZO> When I set a virtual debian installation up yesterday in virtualbox, I had to set 2048mb of ram in virtualbox or else the installation would fail
• 1400[13:54:02] <themill> Led_Zeppelin: in what way does it seem that?
• 1401[13:54:05] <Led_Zeppelin> exactly, SZO
• 1402[13:54:14] <SZO> You can decrease the ram alotment after install to 1024
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• 1404[13:54:41] <Led_Zeppelin> just not sure why installation needs 2GB of memory.
• 1405[13:54:45] <weedloser> Both with the GUI installer and text installer?
• 1406[13:54:47] <themill> it doesn't
• 1407[13:54:51] <Led_Zeppelin> textinstaller
• 1408[13:54:56] <SZO> Yes, gui and text
• 1409[13:54:59] <weedloser> That's really weird.
• 1410[13:55:00] <SZO> 100%
• 1411[13:55:17] <SZO> I still have the logs saved
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• 1413[13:55:48] <weedloser> Anyway, minimal debian install with nothing added is around 800M for me.
• 1414[13:56:07] <weedloser> replaced-url
• 1415[13:56:08] <Led_Zeppelin> yeah, why that much?
• 1416[13:56:25] *** Quits: Nevermin_ (~Nevermind@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1417[13:56:49] <themill> Confusing disk space and ram usage?
• 1418[13:56:56] <weedloser> That's pretty standard.
• 1419[13:57:05] <weedloser> Oh, are we talking about ram or disk here?
• 1420[13:57:16] <themill> both. interchangeably.
• 1421[13:57:21] <weedloser> I think you're looking for alpine if you want something really small.
• 1422[13:57:28] <SZO> lubuntu is small af
• 1423[13:58:13] <weedloser> debian installed with bare xfce is like 3GB's or something.
• 1424[13:58:19] <weedloser> (without tasksel)
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• 1427[13:59:14] <weedloser> (disk space)
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• 1431[14:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1524
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• 1437[14:10:25] <themill> halt
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• 1442[14:16:49] <uio> SZO, Isn't Debian XFCE smaller for RAM than lubuntu??
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• 1445[14:18:00] <uio> This upgrade is taking forever!
• 1446[14:18:00] <kanliot> probably the installer mounts the install media into ram. that sucks up about 600 MB, and python is unstable without swap.
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• 1448[14:18:34] <joze> >warten auf ein statement von Sebastian Kurz
• 1449[14:18:40] <kanliot> because it resevers ram for private heap
• 1450[14:18:49] <joze> sorry
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• 1452[14:19:22] <joze> it was a wron tab
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• 1455[14:20:36] <humpled> i'm running at about 1000 Millibars atm, fortunately
• 1456[14:21:01] <kanliot> atmosphere or at the momemnt?
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• 1469[14:29:37] <SZO> uio: I swear I must be out my mind but I think I have seen debian run on 60mb of ram before
• 1470[14:29:44] <SZO> cli
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• 1472[14:31:39] <humpled> sure
• 1473[14:32:04] <humpled> i ran it on 32MB less than 10 years ago
• 1474[14:32:36] <weedloser> replaced-url
• 1475[14:33:20] <weedloser> without anything except top running, it's 56 :P
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• 1502[14:51:43] <winny> debian, like most linuxen is a bit bloaty these days, you can run it on such little ram, but it's not like it was 10 years ago... unless you use something that is stripped down or custom tailored for your low memory environment
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• 1516[15:01:48] <ksk> (which might be what 99% of the users want)
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• 1533[15:15:49] <oiaohm> winny: you can still cut memory usage down a lot. Problem is items like firefox and chrome being absolutely memory hogs.
• 1534[15:16:08] <ksk> ,v lynx
• 1535[15:16:09] <judd> Package: lynx on amd64 -- jessie: 2.8.9dev1-2+deb8u1; stretch: 2.8.9dev11-1; buster: 2.8.9rel.1-3; sid: 2.8.9rel.1-3; experimental: 2.9.0dev.1-1
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• 1537[15:16:36] <oiaohm> ksk: you get a lot of sites where links and lynx are basically brick.
• 1538[15:16:51] <winny> oddly a lot of sites do work well with no JS and no css
• 1539[15:16:53] <ksk> yeah I know :(
• 1540[15:17:28] <oiaohm> winny: I know quite a few sites where the site menu is either js or css.
• 1541[15:17:46] <CrystalMath> yeah but
• 1542[15:17:50] <oiaohm> winny: so basically turn those off you are buggered navating those sites.
• 1543[15:17:54] <CrystalMath> i think elinks will display it
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• 1545[15:18:00] <CrystalMath> even if it's "display: none"
• 1546[15:18:16] <CrystalMath> that helps a lot
• 1547[15:18:38] <CrystalMath> that makes basically all CSS menus work
• 1548[15:18:46] <winny> for images there's also (x)links -g which is rather pleasant, even works in framebuffer (no xorg needed)
• 1549[15:18:47] <CrystalMath> and most JS ones too
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• 1551[15:19:23] <CrystalMath> the only issue is if the website is generated with JS
• 1552[15:19:33] <CrystalMath> but i use strict noscript in firefox
• 1553[15:19:44] <CrystalMath> so it's okay, i've been web browsing fine without JS for a long time
• 1554[15:20:07] <CrystalMath> i'm kinda used to opening the developer tools and modifying the page to work :P
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• 1569[15:35:47] <weedloser> umatrix is great
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• 1612[16:17:07] <cybercrypto> dpkg: backports!
• 1613[16:17:07] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
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• 1617[16:21:10] <noodlepie> Debian.org and Gentoo.org rock! I love both of them to bits! hehe :P
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• 1626[16:24:05] <l0ckedgreeN> hi
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• 1628[16:24:29] <l0ckedgreeN> quick question pls,so after compiling and executing the netsurf source, (COMPILE: utils/utils.c, ==> LINK: nsgtkroot@pc:~/dev-netsurf/workspace/netsurf#
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• 1630[16:24:50] <l0ckedgreeN> the netsurf browser opens all okay, but where is the compiled binaries/etc at? thx
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• 1636[16:26:15] <l0ckedgreeN> y0
• 1637[16:26:34] <Franknog> l0ckedgreeN: "find . -name bin/"
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• 1639[16:26:45] <l0ckedgreeN> ty kind sir <3!!!!
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• 1646[16:32:58] <l0ckedgreeN> Maybe I can't find the binary because I did not cross compile? is that it?. (sry, new to this)
• 1647[16:33:38] <Franknog> l0ckedgreeN: if you're running the application, you're probably running a binary. I looked at the Makefile and it says it puts it in a path called bin/
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• 1649[16:35:34] <Franknog> l0ckedgreeN: did you make install it or something? you can run "which" to find the binary location
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• 1658[16:37:33] <l0ckedgreeN> ahha, thank you
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• 1661[16:40:22] <elm_> is Monodroid not here any more?
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• 1667[16:44:14] <Franknog> elm_: isn't that #Xamarin?
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• 1694[17:01:56] <laptop> quick question about encryption have 1gb ram want to encrypt hd due to sensitive information but not sure how much LUKS slows down computer also is different than twofish which works fastest on computer
• 1695[17:03:03] <ksk> didnt you ask that question some days ago already? ;)
• 1696[17:03:44] <ksk> It will most likely be slow, and only you can decide if that is okay for you.
• 1697[17:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1543
• 1698[17:04:20] <ksk> slow being relative here - which makes it even harder to answer your question..
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• 1700[17:05:22] <laptop> slow as in nonfunctional
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• 1703[17:05:55] <laptop> i tried envcrypting swap not sure if that was problem
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• 1706[17:07:23] <laptop> with why it was so slow
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• 1714[17:10:31] <p53ud0nym> Hi. I'm trying to switch to https transports in apt. I'm using the address - "replaced-url
• 1715[17:10:44] <tds> laptop: testing with `cryptsetup benchmark` might be useful, for many systems I'd expect that to far exceed how quickly you can actually read/write to disk
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• 1717[17:11:15] <p53ud0nym> What repos have valid https certificates?
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• 1720[17:11:51] <phazon> laptop: depends on the hardware but there is about a 1-5% compute penalty; maybe 1-2% on ram; disk io is where you'll likely feel pain though
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• 1724[17:13:58] <rebuild> I have a network / NATTING problem, as described here: replaced-url
• 1725[17:14:02] *** nojake is now known as EaR3Ndi1
• 1726[17:14:02] <rebuild> Am i missing something?
• 1727[17:14:12] <phazon> mostly with spinning mechanical disks; if it's flash, the gains of using solid state more than make up for it
• 1728[17:14:53] <tds> rebuild: do you see anything matching the rule if you `iptables-save -c`?
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• 1730[17:15:45] <tds> also, stupid thought, but does pinging 8.8.8.8 from the vm get snat'd ok?
• 1731[17:16:21] <rebuild> tds: yes, i receive the following from iptables-save: [0:0] -A POSTROUTING -s 10.12.1.1/32 -o enp3s0 -j SNAT --to-source <external_ip>
• 1732[17:16:35] <tds> ok, nothing's matched that rule then
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• 1734[17:16:54] <rebuild> ICMP also is not natted
• 1735[17:17:09] <rebuild> 17:12:03.013443 IP 10.12.1.1 > 8.8.8.8: ICMP echo request, id 1623, seq 0, length 64
• 1736[17:17:48] <p53ud0nym> @p53ud0nym: "replaced-url
• 1737[17:17:48] <tds> could you pastebin the full iptables ruleset? (ie the entire iptables-save -c output)?
• 1738[17:18:51] <rebuild> it's pretty big. Is there anything that could interfere with the POSTROUTING?
• 1739[17:19:08] <tds> a -j ACCEPT rule before it in postrouting would do it
• 1740[17:19:27] <tds> -j NOTRACK rules would probably break it as well
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• 1742[17:21:06] <rebuild> hmm, i have neither
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• 1750[17:25:16] <kura> Hi, I wonder if someone can help me? I have a job that requires me to use a "secure" os. It's based on debian. My second monitor doesn't work, it's just black. The OS is completely locked down. I cannot access files or terminal. I can however open the USB and edit files on there. Could someone possibly help me?
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• 1754[17:26:26] <tds> rebuild: do you have other rules before that one in postrouting?
• 1755[17:26:37] <tds> inserting it right at the start of the chain might be worth doing if so
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• 1763[17:30:42] <rebuild> tds: it is the first (and only) rule in POSTROUTING. it seems the POSTROUTING is never hit
• 1764[17:30:56] <rebuild> I started to trace the packets, and the last trace is event is:
• 1765[17:31:10] <rebuild> 18/May/2019:17:24:05 +0200 TRACE: filter:FORWARD:policy:2 IN=vmbr3 OUT=enp3s0 PHYSIN=fwpr103p0 MAC=fa:c2:10:c8:4d:71:92:0f:4
• 1766[17:31:13] <rebuild> c:6d:21:e2:08:00 SRC=10.12.1.1 DST=8.8.8.8 LEN=84 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=63 ID=14773 DF PROTO=ICMP TYPE=8 CODE=0 ID=1879 SEQ=71
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• 1769[17:31:31] <rebuild> This means that the last chain is the FORWARD chain
• 1770[17:31:52] <rebuild> shouldn't be POSTROUTING be called after the FORWARD chain is hit?
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• 1778[17:35:47] <p53ud0nym> How can I find out when a package was built? `apt cache info XXX` does not include this information.
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• 1780[17:37:15] <tds> rebuild: oh is this proxmox?
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• 1782[17:37:36] <tds> that's going to be a nightmare if you're doing this on a host also using pve-firewall
• 1783[17:39:29] <rebuild> yes, it is proxmox.
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• 1786[17:39:52] <rebuild> my hope is that it should work without a problem, because pve-firewall does not touch the nat table
• 1787[17:40:52] <tds> hmm, is this being routed via the host, or just traversing a bridge?
• 1788[17:41:02] <tds> also, moving this to #Netfilter might be appropriate
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• 1791[17:42:14] <rebuild> it is entering a bridge for the VM, and then routed to the external facing interface (which is not part of any bridge)
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• 1793[17:43:10] <rebuild> i'll try #netfilter. thank you for the tip
• 1794[17:43:47] <tds> hmm, I've no idea if that ends up traversing the chains twice or what, seeing as you'll have bridge-nf-call-iptables set
• 1795[17:44:02] <tds> and iirc you may only be able to snat the first time you see a packet, seeing as it's all linked into conntrack?
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• 1797[17:45:03] <rebuild> the sysctl is set. good tip the conntrack. I should investigate that
• 1798[17:45:19] <tds> oh yes, that would make sense, your packet will only traverse the nat table the first time you see it before you've got a conntrack entry
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• 1863[18:22:12] <hans_> any idea if Debian backports important btrfs fixes to their 4.9 kernel? (Ubuntu does that to their LTS-kernels, dunno about Debian)
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• 1891[18:40:05] <at0m> hans_: afaik, only security fixes for LTS. backports is newer versions compatible with older packages/depends
• 1892[18:40:10] <at0m> ,bpo
• 1893[18:40:15] <at0m> !bpo
• 1894[18:40:15] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <stretch backports>) and oldstable (<jessie backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
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• 1903[18:47:37] <hans_> any idea what this means? replaced-url
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• 1906[18:49:09] <hans_> also sda3 exists according to ls /dev | grep sd
• 1907[18:49:21] <hans_> .... but it contains btrfs
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• 1910[18:49:57] <at0m> what's that? windows?
• 1911[18:50:01] <hans_> i could guess that maybe debian 9.9 does not support having btrfs for the root partition?
• 1912[18:50:16] <hans_> at0m, what? you mean the window?
• 1913[18:50:19] <hans_> that's windows xp yes
• 1914[18:50:37] <hans_> but the terminal is a debian 9.9 failing to boot
• 1915[18:50:50] <hans_> any idea why it's failing to boot?
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• 1919[18:53:26] <hans_> brand new just-finished-installing debian 9*
• 1920[18:53:47] <hans_> after reboot, it gave a different error: replaced-url
• 1921[18:54:07] <hans_> ah no nvm its the same error
• 1922[18:54:27] <hans_> why would it say "/dev/sdb3 does not exist" tho - it definitely does exist
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• 1924[18:55:05] <hans_> i guess that's what i get for trying to make the root partition btrfs?
• 1925[18:55:10] <hans_> (sda3 is btrfs)
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• 1929[18:57:48] <hans_> this is what i get when trying to boot in recovery mode: replaced-url
• 1930[18:57:48] <hans_> ....
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• 1955[19:10:03] <bora> hello everyone
• 1956[19:10:03] *** Joins: neops (~neops@replaced-ip)
• 1957[19:10:25] <bora> I need help about xfce crash
• 1958[19:11:05] <bora> Anyone know and live sometimes xfce has freeze
• 1959[19:11:12] <bora> I dont know why
• 1960[19:11:33] <bora> I dont see on Gnome3
• 1961[19:12:03] <bora> what this problem should be and how to solved
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• 1980[19:28:44] <t3st3r> bora> not too much details about your problem, eh?
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• 1984[19:30:56] <t3st3r> such description could mean absolutely anything. What do you mean by freeze? Graphis getting stuck? Some program getting stuck? System totally dies? Or?
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• 1989[19:31:48] <bora> freezing actualy
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• 1991[19:32:33] <bora> but I am looking it doing when firefox is open
• 1992[19:33:17] <bora> is it could be to firefox
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• 1996[19:35:28] <at0m> bora: does your machine freeze? can you Ctrl-Alt-F[1-6] and switch to tty?
• 1997[19:35:46] <t3st3r> I don't understand "freezing actually". You run firefox, and graphics gets stuck? What GPU (graphics card) you have?
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• 1999[19:36:06] <at0m> !doesnt work
• 2000[19:36:06] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
• 2001[19:36:22] <bora> ok when if its doin again I will try
• 2002[19:36:28] <bora> thanks atom
• 2003[19:36:34] <annadane> also see .xsession-errors
• 2004[19:36:46] <annadane> if you want to paste anything, use paste.debian.net
• 2005[19:37:24] <annadane> though i guess if you had a crash on an earlier session and are now using a new session it'd be in .xsession-errors.old, not sure exactly how that particular log rotation works in debian
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• 2007[19:37:37] <bora> t3st3r ; My laptops gpu intel
• 2008[19:37:56] <bora> intel vga 5500
• 2009[19:38:13] <at0m> bora: once in tty, if that works, you can log in as user or root and see what's going on. "top" gives you CPU info and other process info. you can "less /home/$user/.xsession-errors, and as root you can restart X from there. different options..
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• 2013[19:39:12] <t3st3r> hmm interesting, never seen these to fully lock up... though maybe you can try Settings -> window manager tweaks -> Compositor and then disable compositing/
• 2014[19:39:22] <t3st3r> ...to see if it improves things or not.
• 2015[19:39:35] <t3st3r> But it really wild guess and could be wrong.
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• 2040[20:02:09] <laptop> hello sorry to sound like a broken record but I am going to do LUKS encryption on my HD but I read recently that you can actually break LUKS by reading the memory of the computer (RAM) when the computer starts up. I was curious to know if anyone tried LUKS-nuke which I understand is available for debian, pleaes let me know
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• 2048[20:07:40] <jmcnaught> laptop: full disk encryption is mostly protecting your data in the case that your computer is lost or stolen. To keep it as safe as possible, never leave your computer turned on while unattended. Also consider who your adversary is, do they have the resources or attention span to attempt to crack your encryption, or if they steal your laptop will they just put windows on it and sell it to a pawn shop?
• 2049[20:07:52] *** Quits: a-l-e (~a-l-e@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2050[20:08:00] <bora> 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Host Bridge -OPI (rev 09)
• 2051[20:08:00] <bora> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 5500 (rev 09)
• 2052[20:08:00] <bora> 00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Audio Controller (rev 09)
• 2053[20:08:00] <bora> 00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP USB xHCI Controller (rev 03)
• 2054[20:08:00] <bora> 00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP MEI Controller #1 (rev 03)
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• 2057[20:08:47] <jmcnaught> bora: replaced-url
• 2058[20:08:56] <phazon> !paste > bora
• 2059[20:08:56] <dpkg> > bora: put your output on replaced-url
• 2060[20:09:12] <laptop> well my laptop is obsolete so will not sell it for much, debian 1 gb ram and 40 gb hd athalon x2 1.6 ghz, but the data would be valuable. The situation where I see this happening is in a hotel room or when I take the laptop with me and leave it in my car
• 2061[20:09:35] <phazon> what is the thing that PM them? !tell?
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• 2063[20:10:07] <jmcnaught> phazon: yeah, !tell
• 2064[20:10:22] <bora> paste.debian.net/1082047
• 2065[20:10:31] <bora> ok then
• 2066[20:10:38] <bora> thank you
• 2067[20:10:50] <phazon> what is the syntax? '!tell phazon about FOO'?
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• 2069[20:11:36] <jmcnaught> or '!tell phazon -about bots' to not have the factoid repeated back to you
• 2070[20:12:03] <phazon> i pm the the bot 'tell' and it explained it
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• 2128[20:44:09] <prppedro> !tell
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• 2132[20:47:21] <prppedro> Guys, will Buster stay in Kernel 4.xx, after all?
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• 2163[21:09:40] <hans_> prppedro, i guess until a 5x LTS shows up
• 2164[21:10:07] <hans_> (of which there are currently 0)
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• 2166[21:11:09] <hans_> or is the kernel frozen by now?
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• 2168[21:12:04] <hans_> ah yeah it was probably frozen at 2019-03-12
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• 2173[21:14:46] <jelly> prppedro: 4.19 is a longterm kernel branch, and also chosen for buster
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• 2196[21:38:26] <prppedro> hans_ / jelly, well, it's a lot debian-ish to choose the LTS. hahaha... Even my old Fedora 28 are running Kernel 5.0, by now. But I don't know if there's any true advantage...
• 2197[21:39:06] <prppedro> They promised hot kernel swap in the 5.x, did they get it working?
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• 2199[21:39:16] <hans_> wut
• 2200[21:39:21] <hans_> hot kernel swap?
• 2201[21:39:24] <hans_> press x to doubt...
• 2202[21:39:29] <prppedro> hahaha, sorry
• 2203[21:39:49] <prppedro> You tipically update your kernel and then reboot
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• 2206[21:40:18] <prppedro> but I heard something about it not being needed anymore
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• 2208[21:41:05] <prppedro> Live patching, it is
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• 2215[21:41:46] <prppedro> “Since April 2015, there is ongoing work on porting kpatch to the common live patching core provided by the Linux kernel mainline.[12] However, implementation of the required function-level consistency mechanisms has been delayed because the call stacks provided by the Linux kernel may be unreliable in situations that involve assembly code without proper stack frames; as a result, the porting work remains in progress as of September 2015.”
• 2216[21:41:52] <prppedro> Well, guess not. ;x
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• 2219[21:44:01] <jhutchins> prppedro: always been just out of reach.
• 2220[21:44:21] <prppedro> jhutchins, but why?
• 2221[21:44:36] <jhutchins> It's like video calls on linux.
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• 2227[21:47:03] <jhutchins> prppedro: Lots of work, not much motivation. The industrial users who might use it already have alternate Hight Availabilty strategies like pooled redundant servers or hot-swap spares.
• 2228[21:47:52] <jhutchins> prppedro: There are reasons a periodic reboot is a good strategy, so might as well do a rolling reboot of multiple machines.
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• 2230[21:48:52] <prppedro> jhutchins, fair enough... May be such kind of feature only appeals to us crazy sysadmins who just like to be proud of the uptime in our servers. hahaha... Rationally speaking it wouldn't make much sense, anyway.
• 2231[21:50:26] <jhutchins> These days the cool kids talk about just spinning up a whole new server and cutting over to it.
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• 2320[22:42:53] <wald0> ssh -Y server doesn't allows me to run a graphical application on my host machine
• 2321[22:43:04] <wald0> maybe because i have no xserver/xorg packages installed on the server?
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• 2323[22:43:50] <wald0> if so, which is the minimal packages that i need for that? DISPLAY variable is not set to "localhost:10.0" in the server
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• 2342[22:50:30] <norwood67> hey, is there a way to play a video on tty1 without having X installed?
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• 2345[22:51:08] <wald0> norwood67: mplayer -vo help
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• 2347[22:51:23] <wald0> maybe mplayer -vo fbdev video.avi
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• 2349[22:51:29] <wald0> or "aa" :)
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• 2353[22:51:53] <norwood67> oh cool. let me try that
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• 2355[22:52:06] <norwood67> thanks
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• 2366[22:54:05] <norwood67> cool, works great
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• 2378[22:59:19] <wald0> norwood67: have you tried with -vo aa ? :)
• 2379[22:59:49] <norwood67> not yet, someone else suggested omxplayer and its work great at the moment
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• 2391[23:06:54] <wald0> norwood67: i said that because is really funny to watch a movie in AA :)
• 2392[23:07:07] <norwood67> oh
• 2393[23:07:20] <norwood67> was it going to wipe the hard drive?
• 2394[23:07:28] <wald0> nope
• 2395[23:07:33] <jmcnaught> it just plays the video in ascii art
• 2396[23:07:34] <wald0> but to reproduce the movie in ascii art
• 2397[23:07:39] <norwood67> oh
• 2398[23:07:40] <norwood67> cool
• 2399[23:07:43] <norwood67> i will have to try that
• 2400[23:07:45] <norwood67> :)
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• 2419[23:20:26] <Terrell> You do not want to know the ***holes in #windows What a bunch of losers
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• 2472[23:47:38] <agio> debian - by default - seems to not put /sbin directories in the $PATH of regular users. this means I often have to run sudo just to run progams. is there a reason for this? is it ok to just add those dirs to my users $PATH?
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• 2488[23:56:28] <LtL> agio: that is because everything in /sbin/ requires root privileges. You can add them to your path but you'll need sudo to execute them.
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• 2491[23:57:28] <humpled> :|/
• 2492[23:57:43] <LtL> agio: `su -` automatically change your path and includes /sbin
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• 2495[23:57:56] <LtL> changes*
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