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• 47[00:14:07] <GrizzlyAdams> so I've followed replaced-url
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• 65[00:21:00] <ksk> totally no idea of nvidia foo, but what does it say? :)
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• 67[00:21:18] <ksk> did you remote the "quiet" parameter from bootloader to get an output?
• 68[00:21:25] <ksk> s/remote/remove
• 69[00:21:34] <GrizzlyAdams> yeah, there is zero output from the kernel.
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• 73[00:22:23] <GrizzlyAdams> i'm about to try loading the installer kernel with the installed fs as a rescue
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• 75[00:22:51] <ksk> !chroot if you need any help with that ;)
• 76[00:22:56] <ksk> !chroot
• 77[00:22:56] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
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• 80[00:23:26] <GrizzlyAdams> yeah, chroot is another option if this fails.
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• 132[00:45:41] <Vision> is there an ETA of 10 perhaps? best guess?
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• 141[00:48:02] <papiiii> what's the best way to upgrade chromium to latest version
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• 143[00:48:40] <papiiii> My chromium version is 70 but due to recent security issues 72 should be mandatory
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• 147[00:49:10] <papiiii> when running apt upgrade it says that I'm at the newest version
• 148[00:49:11] <papiiii> wut do
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• 151[00:49:50] <dvs> ,v chromium
• 152[00:49:51] <judd> Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 70.0.3538.110-1~deb9u1; sid: 72.0.3626.53-1; buster: 72.0.3626.109-1; stretch-security: 72.0.3626.122-1~deb9u1
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• 159[00:51:29] <papiiii> when can we expect 72 on stretch
• 160[00:51:49] <papiiii> do you know how long does it take them to push the update to stretch
• 161[00:51:53] <dvs> !wwbr
• 162[00:51:53] <dpkg> Debian 10 "Buster" start the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release mid-2019. replaced-url
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• 179[00:55:54] <JordiGH> Uhhhh...
• 180[00:56:01] <JordiGH> my /var/lib/dpkg/status file is missing.
• 181[00:56:06] <JordiGH> Is that, like.... bad?
• 182[00:56:14] <JordiGH> The one file that keeps track of all installed packages?
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• 185[00:57:43] <nkuttler> JordiGH: do you still have status-old?
• 186[00:57:47] <JordiGH> nkuttler: Yeah.
• 187[00:58:06] <nkuttler> JordiGH: how did the file go missing?
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• 189[00:59:05] <nkuttler> status-old is a backup, but your database will probably be inconsistent if you simple use it
• 190[00:59:08] <JordiGH> Earlier today I made my system unbootable.
• 191[00:59:24] <JordiGH> After messing around with grub-efi and stuff, I made it bootable again.
• 192[00:59:41] <JordiGH> So I booted back in.
• 193[00:59:46] <nkuttler> /var/lib/dpkg/status has nothing to do with booting
• 194[00:59:49] <JordiGH> something must have been off...
• 195[01:00:10] <JordiGH> Because I booted into a hibernated image.
• 196[01:00:20] <JordiGH> Everything seemed fine, but suddenly the filesystem was read-only.
• 197[01:00:27] <JordiGH> Reboot again, did fsck...
• 198[01:00:33] <JordiGH> And everything seemed fine until now.
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• 200[01:00:45] <nkuttler> so, you don't know
• 201[01:01:10] <JordiGH> /var/backups/dpkg.status.0 and /var/lib/dpkg/status-old seem almost the same.
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• 203[01:01:23] <JordiGH> The only difference is that status-old has grub-efi
• 204[01:01:28] <nkuttler> if system files randomly disappear... i would consider getting new hardware tbh
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• 206[01:02:28] <JordiGH> I'm pretty sure the hardware is fine, I just did something bad by removing efivars and then trying to reinstall them and booting into a hibernated image.
• 207[01:02:33] <JordiGH> Something must have gone out of synch somewhere.
• 208[01:02:35] <nkuttler> and i'd start by reinstalling and seeing if it happens again
• 209[01:02:43] <JordiGH> Reinstalling what?
• 210[01:02:47] <JordiGH> The whole OS?
• 211[01:02:48] <nkuttler> the os
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• 213[01:03:29] <JordiGH> Relax, my dude.
• 214[01:03:42] <JordiGH> No need to be so hasty.
• 215[01:04:00] <JordiGH> status-old seems fine.
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• 217[01:04:08] <nkuttler> it's the most relaxed thing you can do. everything is panicky trying to fix a broken system, which takes far longer
• 218[01:04:10] <JordiGH> I haven't run apt in a while.
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• 220[01:04:30] <JordiGH> If I run into other trouble I'll try something else.
• 221[01:04:36] <nkuttler> well, if that's good enough for you.. go ahead
• 222[01:04:50] <JordiGH> Okay, maybe everything is not fine.
• 223[01:04:52] <JordiGH> E: Unable to parse package file /var/lib/apt/extended_states (1)
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• 265[01:24:33] <JordiGH> Come to think of it, I can imagine why there would be a problem.
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• 267[01:24:47] <JordiGH> I mounted the drive the hibernation image was for.
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• 269[01:25:06] <JordiGH> And I modified it. I re-ran grub-install from it and reinstalled the Debian package.
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• 271[01:25:26] <JordiGH> The hibernation image wakes up and there's now stuff in RAM that doesn't match what's on the disk.
• 272[01:25:35] <JordiGH> Hey, the disk must be corrupt, concludes Linux.
• 273[01:25:48] <JordiGH> Hence, fsck it.
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• 295[01:39:40] <cheapie> Huh, turns out olpc-powerd actually *doesn't* do anything important and you can run an XO-1 without it no problem.
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• 385[02:10:00] <nicekiwi> :
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• 425[02:28:12] <sharp15> what do i need know/do to install hplip-3.18.9 or later on debian-9.8?
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• 447[02:40:42] <themill> ,v hplip
• 448[02:40:43] <judd> Package: hplip on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.12.6-3.1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 3.12.6-3.1+deb7u2; jessie: 3.14.6-1+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 3.16.11+repack0-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 3.16.11+repack0-3; stretch-backports: 3.18.12+dfsg0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 3.18.12+dfsg0-2; sid: 3.18.12+dfsg0-2
• 449[02:40:58] <themill> patience is a virtue,
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• 460[02:46:22] <dvs> "yeah, yeah, yeah, patience. How long will that take?" ;-)
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• 501[03:13:35] <whislock> It's in backports.
• 502[03:13:48] <whislock> So... Not that hard.
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• 581[05:01:42] <Gigglebyte> Does anyone see anything in the following sources.list that would explain why I am no longer able to use the apt-get update, and apt-get upgrade commands? Awhile back I modified my sources.list file without keeping a copy of the old one and feel a little stupid for doing this.
• 582[05:01:53] <Gigglebyte> My sources.list file is located at replaced-url
• 583[05:03:07] <dvs> Gigglebyte, line 11 doesn't have "deb" at the start of it
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• 592[05:14:00] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I fixed the line 11 problem, but now get a different error message replaced-url
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• 594[05:16:16] <dvs> Gigglebyte, try "deb.debian.org" instead of "ftp.us.debian.org"
• 595[05:17:03] <dvs> or replaced-url
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• 600[05:26:35] <Gigglebyte> dvs> ftp.us.debian.org is a good url, but I will try your suggestion
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• 608[05:35:45] <themill> !ftp.us.debian.org
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• 610[05:35:45] <dpkg> Some mirrors like ftp.us.debian.org have multiple machines serving them in a DNS round robin. This often isn't a problem but if one machine hasn't updated properly or is down, this can cause apt to complain (e.g. with hashsum mismatch). Instead, use the mirror CDN <deb.debian.org> or pick an individual mirror that is close to you (ask me about <mirrors>).
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• 617[05:45:47] <Gigglebyte> themill> I got it working and don't even have any warning messages. Thanks for your help.
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• 663[07:11:18] <darxmurf> hi all
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• 824[09:32:57] <V7> Hey all
• 825[09:33:17] <V7> Is CD1 is enough if trying to install basic debian without DE?
• 826[09:33:36] <V7> s/CD1 is/CD1/
• 827[09:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1520
• 828[09:34:09] <V7> I mean, what's the difference between netinstall and CD1?
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• 860[10:00:26] <bolt> V7: that depends entirely on what you want. this is what the package usage survey is for. netinstall contains only what you need to boot the installer. cd1 contains the base sytem and most used packages. dvd1 contains more. if you have some uncommon preferences, those won't be there.
• 861[10:01:06] <bolt> V7: if you have access to the internet and aren't installing 20 machines over dialup, just use netinstall.
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• 864[10:04:01] <V7> bolt: No internet access
• 865[10:04:09] <V7> Btw, why CD1 doesn't have sudo?
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• 868[10:04:23] <V7> This is nonsense, isn't it?
• 869[10:04:29] <rant> all install media has sudo
• 870[10:04:43] <V7> I've isntaleld and it shows" sudo - no such command
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• 872[10:05:01] <haaibo> haaaai
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• 874[10:05:10] <haaibo> what is a good l2tp package which I can use on debian
• 875[10:05:13] <Devil> omg, im stuck.. should i download 600+mb file or 4 gb + file for usb ?
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• 877[10:05:31] <haaibo> i've been suggested to use openswan/racoon but it doesn't look like it gets updated regularly.
• 878[10:05:42] <rant> V7: sudo is an optional package, its only installed by default on systems where you do not set a root password
• 879[10:06:00] <rant> for this reason it has to be on all instal media
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• 882[10:06:23] <V7> Oh, so when I've set password for root sudo didn't install?
• 883[10:06:25] <V7> Why?
• 884[10:06:34] <rant> BECAUSE IT IS OPTIONAL
• 885[10:06:37] <rant> ,i sudo
• 886[10:06:39] <judd> Package sudo (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: Provide limited super user privileges to specific users. Version: 1.8.19p1-2.1; Size: 1030.1k; Installed: 3035k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 887[10:06:42] <V7> THere were 3 options
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• 890[10:06:51] <V7> DE, XFCE and System packages
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• 893[10:06:59] <V7> I've checked only last one
• 894[10:07:11] <rant> look, you can either apt install sudo or you can keep harping on about it
• 895[10:07:21] <rant> either way I'm not going to tell you again
• 896[10:07:24] <haaibo> LOL
• 897[10:07:26] <V7> I don't have an internet connection on this system
• 898[10:07:31] <rant> its on the cd
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• 901[10:07:50] <rant> you can still use the cd as an apt source, it should be configured already
• 902[10:08:00] <V7> Oh, thank you
• 903[10:08:11] <V7> Btw, it's quite strange behaviour, sorry.
• 904[10:08:22] <V7> ^ about sudo package is chosen as an optional
• 905[10:08:31] <rant> yes well to us, its strange behavior that people consider it essential
• 906[10:08:31] <V7> imho
• 907[10:08:45] <rant> the only way it is essential is if you don't set a password
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• 914[10:14:23] <JustASlacker> time to install debian
• 915[10:14:43] <rant> better late than never..
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• 917[10:15:17] <rant> to me, time to install debian is the first time every machine boots..
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• 920[10:16:42] <JustASlacker> downloading netinstall iso right now
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• 924[10:18:29] <Haohmaru> <the_path_to_success.jpg>
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• 935[10:20:52] <Devil> omg, im stuck.. should i download 600+mb file or 4 gb + file for usb ?.... installing
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• 941[10:21:43] <rant> installing what? on where?
• 942[10:21:43] <Haohmaru> how would we know? should we toss a coin for you?
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• 944[10:22:40] <V7> Devil: Depends on what you want to install: a basic Debian or Debian with all packages and Desktop Environment
• 945[10:22:42] <Devil> installing debian
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• 947[10:23:08] <JustASlacker> netinstall is good choice if the systems has network access
• 948[10:23:10] <V7> Also, with internet or without
• 949[10:23:12] <rant> there are over 20 different installation media for stable on x86 alone..
• 950[10:23:27] <Devil> installing on desktop.. with basic
• 951[10:23:43] <V7> Devil: Install CD1(600Mb)
• 952[10:23:45] <rant> if you have an internet connection, we always recommend the netinstall
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• 954[10:24:12] <rant> if you will be using wifi to install we recommend the firmware netinstaller
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• 965[10:32:34] <Devil> i just want to try debian not to install
• 966[10:32:40] <Devil> using usb
• 967[10:32:50] <Devil> willl basic be fine?
• 968[10:33:17] <Haohmaru> if ya wanna try, then there are these Live images
• 969[10:33:41] <Haohmaru> ..with different desktop environments
• 970[10:33:46] <Haohmaru> but they're bigger
• 971[10:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1526
• 972[10:34:17] <Haohmaru> lxde and xfce ones would be the smaller ones i think
• 973[10:34:54] <Haohmaru> they fit on a 2GB flash stick
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• 980[10:41:41] <rant> you'd be hardpressed to even find a 2GB flash drive these days
• 981[10:42:13] * Haohmaru is burried in them
• 982[10:42:20] <rant> smallest ones I have are 4GB
• 983[10:42:59] <Devil> i got 8gb
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• 985[10:43:48] <aexl> why not recommend the bittorrent-dvd?
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• 989[10:47:17] <JustASlacker> alrite
• 990[10:47:31] <JustASlacker> booting my system with debian iso
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• 992[10:48:40] <rant> Devil: replaced-url
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• 995[10:49:02] <Devil> (rant): k thanks
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• 1008[10:56:49] <JustASlacker> and it works
• 1009[10:56:53] * JustASlacker cries
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• 1011[10:57:35] <at0m> JustASlacker: why so emotional? =)
• 1012[10:58:03] <Haohmaru> maybe he's been tortured by commercial OSes till now, and now he feels free
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• 1015[10:58:53] <at0m> maybe they dropped a CRT on their toes
• 1016[10:59:13] <at0m> let's hope you're more on it =)
• 1017[11:00:50] <JustASlacker> Because I spend 4 hours on this on friday
• 1018[11:00:54] <JustASlacker> just works now
• 1019[11:01:00] <JustASlacker> think the iso was bad
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• 1023[11:02:59] <Haohmaru> ah, check the sha sums!
• 1024[11:03:21] <Haohmaru> i've wasted lots of hours fiddling with a broken iso
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• 1028[11:06:48] <JustASlacker> yeah
• 1029[11:06:49] <JustASlacker> sucks
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• 1135[12:44:52] <Laon> Is there a way to test a signing key online? Trying from apt, but only receives "gpg: key server receive failed: no name" PS.: the key; 913DFF12F86258E5
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• 1145[12:53:20] <petn-randall> Laon: Checking signatures is pointless if you don't verify it yourself.
• 1146[12:53:47] <petn-randall> Laon: I'm an online entity, and tell you the signature is valid. Would you trust me?
• 1147[12:54:11] <Haohmaru> hint: he's a liar
• 1148[12:54:17] <Laon> No, but I'd be more sure my system does not work :P
• 1149[12:54:18] <Haohmaru> like me
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• 1151[12:54:39] <petn-randall> Laon: If you provide details what you're doing (commands + output), we might suggest you ways to use a different key server.
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• 1154[12:54:50] <Laon> Got any hints on the "gpg: key server receive failed: no name" ?
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• 1156[12:55:20] <Laon> gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys 913DFF12F86258E5
• 1157[12:55:21] <Laon> gpg: keyserver receive failed: No name
• 1158[12:55:53] <mutante> well.. there is a way to "test" the key.. that would be checking if it has been signed by others, and who the others are and if you trust/know them
• 1159[12:56:23] <mutante> --list-sigs ?
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• 1162[12:59:06] <mutante> Laon: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key 913DFF12F86258E5
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• 1164[13:01:45] <mutante> Laon: the fact that the key ID shows up on official docs is probably the best test you have in this case. replaced-url
• 1165[13:02:45] <Laon> Yes, thanks :)
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• 1172[13:08:26] <furrymcgee> please can I have dpkg more quiet? dpkg --install write many "Reading database ..."
• 1173[13:08:36] <FarhaadN> hi , i am using debian netinstall 9.5.1 , i want install tshark with "apt install -y tshark" command, during the installation , it will prompt me to confifure dumpcap for non-superruser, i want to by pass this confirmation in first command, can anyone help me?
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• 1181[13:11:19] <areyouloco> if I want to install two distros on one drive could I use one /boot right? and separate /root and separate /home?
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• 1183[13:13:10] <aexl> furrymcgee: dpkg --install "your.deb" 1>/dev/null
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• 1185[13:14:24] <FarhaadN> can anyone help me?
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• 1187[13:14:46] <aexl> FarhaadN: apt-get has --force-yes option
• 1188[13:15:17] <FarhaadN> aexl: not for install, during installation
• 1189[13:15:25] <FarhaadN> replaced-url
• 1190[13:15:31] <FarhaadN> please check this picture
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• 1195[13:17:36] <BCMM> aexl: isn't that for actual package management questions, not for configuration?
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• 1198[13:20:13] <BCMM> FarhaadN: try DEBIAN_FRONTEND='noninteractive'. if i understand correctly, you'll get default answers to all debconf questions that way
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• 1218[13:39:57] <FarhaadN> BCMM: one time i used this , but i dont get result , i try it agein , i shoult export this, right?
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• 1229[13:46:14] <FarhaadN> BCMM: not worked again
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• 1231[13:50:17] <simpledat> Hi
• 1232[13:50:49] <simpledat> How do I get Python version 3.6.1 or higher on my debian?
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• 1235[13:51:39] <Haohmaru> ,v python
• 1236[13:51:40] <judd> Package: python on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.7.3-4+deb7u1; jessie: 2.7.9-1; stretch: 2.7.13-2; buster: 2.7.15-4; sid: 2.7.15-4
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• 1239[13:51:56] <Haohmaru> ,v python3
• 1240[13:51:58] <judd> Package: python3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2.3-6; jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.2-1; sid: 3.7.2-1
• 1241[13:52:28] <Haohmaru> maybe 3.7.2-1 from backports
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• 1243[13:52:48] <simpledat> Haohmaru: sid its not backports?
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• 1248[13:53:03] <themill> simpledat: what are you wanting to achieve?
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• 1252[13:53:37] <simpledat> themill: Install electrum
• 1253[13:53:44] <simpledat> Error: Electrum requires Python version >= 3.6.1...
• 1254[13:53:58] <themill> ,v electrum
• 1255[13:53:59] <judd> Package: electrum on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 2.7.9-1~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 3.1.3-1~bpo9+1; sid: 3.2.3-1
• 1256[13:54:34] <simpledat> themill: The newest upgrade is 3.3.4
• 1257[13:55:06] <themill> I know nothing about it other than to avoid it. Newer might even mean better.
• 1258[13:55:21] <themill> Either upgrade to buster or use a virtualenv
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• 1261[13:55:55] <simpledat> themill: Warning: Electrum versions older than 3.3 can no longer connect to public servers, and must be upgraded. This is in order to prevent user exposure to phishing messages. Do not download Electrum from any another source than electrum.org.
• 1262[13:56:02] <simpledat> from replaced-url
• 1263[13:56:15] <themill> so, best avoided completely
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• 1265[13:56:57] <simpledat> themill: Why?
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• 1279[14:04:38] <simpledat> How can I see what python3 version backports can provide me?
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• 1281[14:05:10] <themill> There isn't one.
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• 1285[14:05:52] <simpledat> themill: How do you know?
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• 1287[14:06:05] <simpledat> I mean, how can I check that?
• 1288[14:06:14] <themill> what judd said
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• 1290[14:06:26] <themill> (packages like python will never get backported anyway)
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• 1295[14:07:41] <simpledat> themill: So how then can I get newer python3 version then I already have?
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• 1297[14:08:03] <themill> [23:55] <themill> Either upgrade to buster or use a virtualenv
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• 1300[14:09:18] <outoftime> Where I can ask for help with building libgmpxx? I have few errors I can not resolve by myself.
• 1301[14:10:01] <simpledat> themill: buster= testing?
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• 1304[14:10:24] <themill> yes
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• 1306[14:10:46] <simpledat> themill: Is it safe?
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• 1320[14:30:04] <simpledat> Can someone please help me how to install python version 3.6.1 on my debian stretch distro?
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• 1323[14:30:36] <greycat> Download the python 3.6.1 sources and build them locally and install them locally.
• 1324[14:30:58] <simpledat> greycat: Is there any guide how to do it?
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• 1326[14:31:42] <greycat> There is probably a README file or an INSTALL file, or both, in the python sources. Or on the python web site. Or in the FAQ which one would hope is in the /topic of the #python channel.
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• 1335[14:36:56] <simpledat> greycat: Can I make a package too?
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• 1340[14:39:05] <simpledat> greycat: Someone told me to make a package, what does he mean? and is it safe to do that?
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• 1344[14:42:27] <storrgie> I'm trying to install steamcmd, it appears to be i386, can I install a package that is i386 onto an amd64 system?
• 1345[14:43:44] <storrgie> ah, probably `dpkg --add-architecture i386`
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• 1348[14:45:35] <darxmurf> is there a way to mount bonding during debian installation ?
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• 1355[14:48:43] <greycat> simpledat: I would strongly advise NOT making a python 3.6.1 package which would obliterate the standard stable python 3.5 package and probably break stuff.
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• 1357[14:49:02] <greycat> Installing in /usr/local allows BOTH to coexist.
• 1358[14:49:13] <simpledat> greycat: So what is your suggestion?
• 1359[14:49:43] <greycat> 09:30 greycat> Download the python 3.6.1 sources and build them locally and
• 1360[14:49:44] <greycat> install them locally.
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• 1379[15:06:35] <AlexNagy> It's almost like deja vu.
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• 1384[15:09:30] <themill> simpledat: did you look up how to make a virtualenv?
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• 1386[15:10:32] <themill> (and you definitely should not put tools like python into /usr/local if you have /usr/local/bin in your PATH. That *will* break things)
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• 1388[15:11:19] <greycat> well, at least it's easy to un-break those things by changing PATH
• 1389[15:11:24] <greycat> but your point is valid
• 1390[15:11:55] <beardy> virtualenv is the best thing since sliced spam
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• 1392[15:13:15] <simpledat> themill: Not yet
• 1393[15:13:43] <simpledat> Do you know when debian stretch is gonna upgrade python?
• 1394[15:13:48] <simpledat> I mean in their packages
• 1395[15:13:54] <themill> stretch is never going to have a newer python
• 1396[15:13:59] <beardy> Never.
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• 1399[15:18:03] <simpledat> Why?
• 1400[15:18:26] <karlpinc> simpledat: Wait for buster. When the green line is close to 0 it buster will be released: replaced-url
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• 1403[15:18:53] <simpledat> I mean, people are asking me why Im using a outdated distro. But I really like debian. But in same way I need it to work with other softwares
• 1404[15:18:57] <karlpinc> simpledat: Because of what debian stable is.
• 1405[15:19:00] <karlpinc> !stable
• 1406[15:19:01] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Stretch (9.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). replaced-url
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• 1408[15:19:27] <simpledat> How long do you think we have to wait for buster?
• 1409[15:19:35] <simpledat> until is it stable?
• 1410[15:19:47] <greycat> at LEAST three months, probably more like 6 to 8
• 1411[15:19:49] <karlpinc> Security is enhanced because no new code is added unless it is specifically patched to fix a security problem. (Or bug that simple destroys the package's usefulness.)
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• 1413[15:20:06] <simpledat> What python3 version will buster provide?
• 1414[15:20:12] <greycat> ,v python3
• 1415[15:20:13] <judd> Package: python3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2.3-6; jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.2-1; sid: 3.7.2-1
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• 1417[15:20:43] <simpledat> Ok
• 1418[15:20:46] <simpledat> Thanks
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• 1420[15:21:19] <karlpinc> So, the point of debian stable is you get something secure and reliable. It will have bugs, but you can work-around them and things won't change out from under you.
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• 1424[15:22:31] <karlpinc> simpledat: People do run testing, for various reasons. And some are happy with testing. YMMV. (I like stable and don't want to spend time fussing with my systems.)
• 1425[15:22:56] <Johann> simpledat: also, you can try a tool like "pyenv" to help you install newer version of python (or older, if needed) and switch easily between them
• 1426[15:23:07] <karlpinc> simpledat: (Be sure to upgrade by following the instructions in the release notes. Then you won't have to re-install, which is also a nice property of debian.)
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• 1428[15:24:03] <karlpinc> simpledat: Yes, Johann is right. Python has it's own packaging and debian stable can be used as a platform to install whatever you want. You're just on your own when it comes to keeping up with security/etc of whatever you layer on top of debian.
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• 1459[15:41:02] <karlpinc> What's a "good" toolset to noodle around and graph some functions? Libreoffice might be kludgy, given it's consumer roots. Or so I guess. I do have an example I did in R years ago. What's out there? If I'm going to have to learn something it may as well be useful and powerful so I can use it to model whatever I want in the future.
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• 1461[15:41:59] <jelly> gnuplot?
• 1462[15:42:01] * jelly hides
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• 1465[15:43:19] <colo-work> gnuplot!
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• 1469[15:43:41] <Janni> Hello.
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• 1472[15:44:48] <karlpinc> Is gnuplot a serious suggestion? (There's those python "notebooks". And probably a bunch of javascript stuff too. But as long as I'm learning something I'd like a variety of output formats.)
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• 1474[15:44:57] <karlpinc> !tell Janni about ask
• 1475[15:44:58] <SwK> anyone have a good doc on getting Mellanox ConnectX 40GE NICs working in stretch (9.8) ?
• 1476[15:45:13] *** Joins: lv_ (~emalloy@replaced-ip)
• 1477[15:45:16] <Janni> I have a little puzzle. I'd like to display as much output of `ls` as fits on my screen without losing columnation and colours. So far I've played around with the `column` command but it neither seems to support colour codes, nor does it columnate the same way as ls does. Does anybody know a version of `column`?
• 1478[15:45:22] <Janni> +better
• 1479[15:45:40] *** Parts: _guios (~guios@replaced-ip) ()
• 1480[15:46:20] <EdePopede> Janni: pipe it to `ls -R` and use color=always
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• 1482[15:47:10] <Janni> EdePopede: Thanks!
• 1483[15:47:13] <karlpinc> SwK: You might describe your problem.
• 1484[15:47:18] <Janni> Works just fine.
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• 1486[15:47:49] <SwK> karlpinc its totally a driver issue... card shows fine in lspci, drivers arent being loaded, mellanox has drives, but they wont clean install past 9.5
• 1487[15:48:56] <karlpinc> SwK: Type "/msg judd pciid" and follow the instructions to get the judd bot to help you find the right driver.
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• 1491[15:50:25] <karlpinc> SwK: I think you want "lspci -nn" to get the pciid.
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• 1496[15:52:29] <SwK> I know which driver it is, I'm looking for some more docs on actually making them work lol
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• 1520[16:04:42] <Tenkawa> SwK: what are you trying to do?
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• 1534[16:14:45] <Johann> karlpinc: gnuplot is definetly a serious suggestion. It has a difficult learning curve but it is powerful, especially if you need to do things programatically
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• 1536[16:15:16] <frzr> I'm having trouble understanding the following error message: EXT4-fs error (device xvda3): ext4_mb_generate_buddy:756: group 832, 27234 clusters in bitmap, 24544 in gd; block bitmap corrupt.
• 1537[16:15:43] <frzr> If it's a kernel-related bug or if there might be corruption in the filesystem, any filesystem wizards around? :)
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• 1539[16:16:05] <greycat> What it means to laypeople like me is "hope your last backup was recent and intact"
• 1540[16:16:27] <frzr> Yeah, the latest backup where i can verify full integrity is from 8 days ago
• 1541[16:16:29] <frzr> so not that recent
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• 1543[16:17:04] <irrep> A colleage wants a C++17 compiler on his Debian 9 workstation. Is there some safe way to install g++ 8 without destoying the default installation of g++ 6?
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• 1548[16:23:33] <Johann> irrep: you should be able to simply compile a local version of g++ without installing it globally. See replaced-url
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• 1550[16:24:01] <n4dir> another option would be in a chroot (debootstrap). I guess.
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• 1554[16:24:51] <greycat> chroot is probably overkill, when you could just configure your compiler to install in /opt/g++17/ or wherever makes sense to you
• 1555[16:26:18] <colo-work> clearly, there's a need for dockerized compilers!
• 1556[16:26:46] <jelly> !dockerize colo-work
• 1557[16:26:56] <colo-work> "nothing happens"
• 1558[16:27:01] <colo-work> why isn't that a thing? :(
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• 1562[16:29:43] <jelly> most obnoxious insults/actions have been made in early 200x and some have been deleted in the meantime
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• 1564[16:31:05] <jelly> apparently pummeling inhabitants of #debian with Penices and leaving wet spots is too childish
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• 1566[16:31:55] <colo-work> this world really is trapped in a dystopic downward spiral
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• 1568[16:33:33] <jelly> dpkg: listvals CMD:
• 1569[16:33:34] <dpkg> Factoid search of 'CMD:' by value (2): send #DEL# ;; awaysmack #DEL#.
• 1570[16:33:52] <jelly> dpkg: listvals cmd:
• 1571[16:33:54] <dpkg> Factoid search of 'cmd:' by value (2): awaysmack #DEL# ;; send #DEL#.
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• 1574[16:34:04] <jelly> :'(
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• 1579[16:34:50] <greycat> dpkg literal cmd: -l (.*?)
• 1580[16:34:50] <dpkg> "cmd: -l (.*?)" is "($1): <reply> (ii $1 (1|2|3).(1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9)-(|1)(1|2|3|4|5)(|||.1|.2|.3) ($nick's private (porn|coin|warez|stamp) collection|ultra s3kr1t #debian package)|No packages found matching $1)"
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• 1583[16:36:45] <AlexNagy> lul
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• 1594[16:43:31] <EdePopede> what usable gui browsers does debian have on board? and i don't mean lynx and i don't mean firefox either. one of them is text and no js, so useless on big parts of the web. and the other one has degenerated to a bloated unreliable virtual machine for js powered webapps.
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• 1599[16:44:30] <greycat> If you don't mean firefox then I don't understand your question. At all.
• 1600[16:44:34] <EdePopede> preferably everything that isn't needed for normal web usage should be implemented using a modular system
• 1601[16:44:57] <greycat> Let us know when you're done writing the Next Great Linux Browser.
• 1602[16:45:19] <EdePopede> as i said, firefox is bloated and became unusable during the last years.
• 1603[16:45:30] <EdePopede> *plonk*
• 1604[16:45:35] <colo-work> well, that's, like, your opinion, man
• 1605[16:45:38] <EdePopede> someone with a *real* idea maybe?
• 1606[16:45:52] <n4dir> you could search if midori or arora or such is still in the repositories, but most are not developed anymore (?), so it is either firefox or chromium, if you want js and such
• 1607[16:45:52] <colo-work> there are no "real" ideas that satisfy your requirements
• 1608[16:45:54] <colo-work> !next
• 1609[16:45:54] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 1610[16:45:55] <EdePopede> oh yes, 80% ram just while switching tabs is normal, right?
• 1611[16:46:23] <EdePopede> or is the requirement for a browser nowadays the same as for a highend ego shooterß
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• 1613[16:46:45] <EdePopede> chromium. great. hail google.
• 1614[16:47:00] <EdePopede> best run on chromeOS i suppose
• 1615[16:47:04] <colo-work> choose your poison. I recommend firefox.
• 1616[16:47:14] <n4dir> good or bad, if you want something like a "modern webbrowser" you don't have got other options.
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• 1618[16:47:19] <EdePopede> unusable. in the basic meaning of the word.
• 1619[16:47:42] <EdePopede> i can't restart it every few minutes and then wait for an hour.
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• 1621[16:48:15] <EdePopede> n4dir: JS isn't that modern, it was invented during the days of netscape. 20 years ago.
• 1622[16:48:24] <EdePopede> and modules aren't either.
• 1623[16:48:51] <EdePopede> what is the oldest version which would run on stretch?
• 1624[16:49:05] <n4dir> complain as much as you want, there simply isn't a different solution.
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• 1627[16:49:51] <EdePopede> so linux is a webfree environment nowadays unless you play the windows game and buy a new modern computer with every release
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• 1629[16:50:31] * greycat returns the *plonk* since this is utterly pointless
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• 1631[16:51:19] <EdePopede> what about kde? how bloated is this? i remember konqueror or what it was called
• 1632[16:51:23] <milkt> just don't use browser
• 1633[16:51:57] <EdePopede> milkt: you can't even download stuff anymore without since ftp is more or less dead.
• 1634[16:52:08] <Tenkawa> greycat: hey what was that channel where they are discussing secureboot stuff in? was it just -next/
• 1635[16:52:11] <Tenkawa> ?
• 1636[16:52:13] <n4dir> i tried them all over the years. including konqueror. I am serious. Either firefox/chromium or you will have to live without certain features of the web it is these days. In that case i'd go for netsurf.
• 1637[16:52:15] <Tenkawa> er s///?
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• 1639[16:52:21] <diogenes_> EdePopede, falkon try.
• 1640[16:52:33] <greycat> Tenkawa: you might be thinking of #debian-next on the OFTC network
• 1641[16:52:41] <avu> I thank the FSM every day that FTP is more or less dead
• 1642[16:52:42] <Tenkawa> ahh ok thanks
• 1643[16:53:11] <n4dir> EdePopede: ubuntuusers.de, go to the wiki, go to software. It lists quite a few browsers (the german won't bug you, as it is just a list)
• 1644[16:53:12] <EdePopede> n4dir, diogenes_: thanks, i'll look at them.
• 1645[16:53:18] <Tenkawa> I've got a machine i want to setup for it
• 1646[16:53:44] <EdePopede> n4dir: surely the german won't bug me ;)
• 1647[16:53:48] <Tenkawa> not risking my primary
• 1648[16:54:07] <n4dir> EdePopede: :-) got you, i think
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• 1650[16:54:29] <EdePopede> i'm just wondering seing this in #debian, since google always sends me there even if i explicitely tell it to debianize its results *g*
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• 1660[16:59:36] <Tenkawa> bbialw
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• 1725[17:31:49] <OS-37714> !join #office
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• 1742[17:42:50] <dimir> no
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• 1768[18:00:14] <ksk> ubuntuusers.de has quite a few pieces of useful information, if you are able to decipher it ;)
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• 1824[18:36:07] <Krzysztof> hi All!
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• 1837[18:40:52] <Greyztar> o/
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• 1950[19:36:27] <jhutchins> ksk: Google translate.
• 1951[19:37:12] <SpeedyG> jhutchins: not sure if gTranslate can convert ubuntonian into something sensible ;)
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• 1959[19:38:57] <jhutchins> The purpose of secure boot is to prevent people from running linux. I can't believe the debian team is wasting time and effort on it.
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• 1961[19:39:30] <greycat> It's apparently something in demand from the user base, who are stuck with PCs that have Secure Boot.
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• 1963[19:41:28] <jhutchins> ... which can (and should) be turned off.
• 1964[19:42:06] <greycat> If it can be turned off, then how is it "secure boot"?
• 1965[19:42:22] <jhutchins> It's not. It isn't if it's on.
• 1966[19:42:44] <jhutchins> It's just to prevent people from running non-MS OSs.
• 1967[19:43:06] <jhutchins> Last I knew, the way around it was you paid Intel a bribe and they gave you a key to sign your bootloader or kernel or whatever.
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• 1972[19:43:53] <jhutchins> Somebody explained to Intel that there were entire datacenters running nothing but linux or some other non-MS OS, and they compromised with MS and made it possible to diable it.
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• 2002[20:04:36] <Krzysztof> Luckily, Linux works not only on Intel platform. #inteloutside :)
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• 2008[20:05:32] <generic> can sb assist me with anbox ? trying to get it to run but no idea how
• 2009[20:06:00] <generic> got android-amd64.img now what ?
• 2010[20:07:20] <AlexNagy> Read the tutorials/faqs/etc.?
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• 2012[20:07:36] <generic> AlexNagy: everything I found
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• 2015[20:07:55] <generic> AlexNagy: kernel modules loaded
• 2016[20:08:01] *** Joins: jcole (~jcole@replaced-ip)
• 2017[20:08:13] <generic> AlexNagy: but no idea how to start it
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• 2020[20:08:38] <greycat> This seems like a highly specialized and complicated thing. Perhaps you'd find better help in a more specialized channel.
• 2021[20:08:59] <AlexNagy> ^^^^
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• 2025[20:09:48] <generic> greycat: tried #anbox before .. thought it was worth a try to ask
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• 2028[20:10:59] <generic> anbox-session-manager.service is a systemd user service ... now systemctl start
• 2029[20:11:01] <generic> ?
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• 2087[20:37:56] <belka2615> replaced-url
• 2088[20:37:56] <belka2615> а...
• 2089[20:38:15] <belka2615> спасибо
• 2090[20:38:18] <greycat> !ru
• 2091[20:38:18] <dpkg> Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
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• 2115[20:51:08] <Echo6> Is there a command line browser like Lynx that is able to output audio?
• 2116[20:51:25] <Echo6> I'm trying to set up a small box to work for music around the shop.
• 2117[20:51:52] <CarlFK> Echo6: doesnt links shell out to something? (which seems good enough for that)
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• 2121[20:52:15] <greycat> it probably uses your MIME type settings in some dot file or other
• 2122[20:52:24] <Echo6> Not that I'm aware of, maybe my stuff isn't configured right.
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• 2124[20:52:40] <Echo6> I'll check that out and report back this evening.
• 2125[20:52:47] <Echo6> Thank you!
• 2126[20:52:50] <CarlFK> I want to get throttle-1.2.tar.gz into debian. (very hard to find) What metadata should I ask the author for? name, email, url, license,
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• 2153[21:08:27] <frzr> I'm having trouble understanding the following error message: EXT4-fs error (device xvda3): ext4_mb_generate_buddy:756: group 832, 27234 clusters in bitmap, 24544 in gd; block bitmap corrupt.
• 2154[21:08:31] <frzr> If it's a kernel-related bug or if there might be corruption in the filesystem, any filesystem wizards around? :)
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• 2158[21:10:50] <GNU\colossus> frzr, what does fsck say?
• 2159[21:11:01] <GNU\colossus> (could be both)
• 2160[21:11:18] <frzr> haven't run fsck yet
• 2161[21:11:22] <GNU\colossus> can you reproduce the problem, and if so, can you do so with another kernel release?
• 2162[21:11:26] <frzr> have scheduled a production stop tonight, going to run it then
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• 2164[21:11:39] <greycat> It's been FIVE hours. And you haven't fscked yet.
• 2165[21:11:53] <frzr> nope, cant just kill the server like that, critical mysql machine :(
• 2166[21:12:04] <greycat> I see. Unfortunate.
• 2167[21:12:10] <frzr> need to alert customers etc, and schedule
• 2168[21:12:14] <frzr> fastest possible was tonight
• 2169[21:12:29] <SerajewelKS> guessing if it's production that you at least have backups
• 2170[21:12:29] <frzr> What's the risks in delaying? more loss of data ?
• 2171[21:12:39] <frzr> Well i have slaves for the db
• 2172[21:12:57] <SerajewelKS> no regular point-in-time backups?
• 2173[21:13:00] <frzr> but i rather not populate from them since they have diff on rows on certain tables that the sync operations has not synced over to the master
• 2174[21:13:07] <frzr> 8 days last one
• 2175[21:13:07] <frzr> :)
• 2176[21:13:11] <SerajewelKS> eeesh
• 2177[21:13:14] <frzr> yes :(
• 2178[21:13:19] <SerajewelKS> any corruption could possibly have been synced
• 2179[21:13:28] <frzr> fs corruption via mysql sync? no ?
• 2180[21:13:33] <frzr> is that a possibliity ?
• 2181[21:13:47] <SerajewelKS> if it's statement-level sync probably not. WAL shipping... i dunno.
• 2182[21:13:54] <frzr> My understanding was that stuff like that would not be synced
• 2183[21:13:57] <frzr> i might be wrong :/
• 2184[21:14:19] <frzr> It's a row based sync
• 2185[21:14:26] <GNU\colossus> both kinds of replication will use the filesystem to commit their data, and not bypass the fs to write to the raw blockdev underneath
• 2186[21:14:48] <GNU\colossus> so that shouldn't really matter
• 2187[21:15:10] <SerajewelKS> true, either kind of sync is vulnerable to the sync'd log files becoming corrupt
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• 2189[21:16:11] <frzr> crap
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• 2191[21:16:30] <SerajewelKS> frzr: i don't know how big your data set is. what we have for our production DB servers, they all run on LVM and we have 5-10% free space in the DB volume VG. every night we create an LVM snapshot, mount that somewhere, set it up to be a chroot, and run a secondary mysqld inside of the chroot, then mysqldump from that.
• 2192[21:16:31] <frzr> guess i just have to pray then that those sectors are not affected
• 2193[21:16:36] <SerajewelKS> then we can just toss the LVM snapshot
• 2194[21:16:50] <frzr> we had 9% space before the grow-resize opreation
• 2195[21:16:53] <frzr> operation*
• 2196[21:16:55] <SerajewelKS> the only real concern with such a setup is the write amplification of LVM snapshots
• 2197[21:17:00] <frzr> now we have 60-70%
• 2198[21:17:04] <SerajewelKS> VG free space is not the same as filesystem free space
• 2199[21:17:26] <SerajewelKS> if your DB volume isn't already in an LVM LV then this approach requires migration
• 2200[21:17:39] <frzr> Its not
• 2201[21:17:47] <SerajewelKS> (side note, we can't just use mysqldump --single-transaction, which would be preferred, because most of our tables are MyISAM which does not support transactions)
• 2202[21:18:23] <SerajewelKS> (which means a dump requires an exclusive lock of the tables. the LVM snapshot approach enables us to get a true point-in-time backup without locking the live tables. it does require a second short-lived mysqld, but our environment is able to handle that.)
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• 2207[21:19:58] <frzr> We're using percona-server they have tools to perform point in time incremental backups
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• 2209[21:20:30] <frzr> but because of how the infrastructure is set up i havent had the time to reconfigure which has resulted in not optimal integrity tests
• 2210[21:20:42] <frzr> just found out this week that the master-slave replicas has diffs in their rows
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• 2212[21:20:57] <frzr> 1 to around 70 in all the tables
• 2213[21:21:41] <frzr> ugh, this shit is indeed stressful :)
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• 2218[21:24:30] <frzr> Yeah and greycat the filesystem error appeared on friday, just noticed it today
• 2219[21:24:37] <frzr> so slightly more hours than 5
• 2220[21:24:39] <frzr> just a bit
• 2221[21:25:09] <GNU\colossus> that reads very much like mysql replication still being utter shit :>
• 2222[21:25:23] <frzr> haha
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• 2224[21:25:42] <frzr> Well i don't know i inherited this infrastructure, and im the only one in charge of this now
• 2225[21:25:46] <frzr> happy happy life
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• 2227[21:25:57] <GNU\colossus> I feel for you
• 2228[21:26:00] <frzr> mysql replication is still kind of new to me
• 2229[21:26:09] <frzr> But if you think that lvm solution is a better one
• 2230[21:26:11] <frzr> i have to look into that
• 2231[21:26:20] <FinalX> mysql replication is shit, though in mysql 8.0 there's group replication that's more similar to galera clustering
• 2232[21:26:33] <GNU\colossus> if your application can do (reliable) replication, _always_ prefer that over block-based replication schemes
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• 2235[21:27:57] <frzr> Dont you need to perform a lot of filesystem operations to guarantee 100% integrity of the lvm snapshots ?
• 2236[21:28:02] <frzr> Like freezing the filesystem
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• 2238[21:28:14] <frzr> so no changes are performed while you create the snapshot
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• 2240[21:29:16] <GNU\colossus> in my experience, it's best not to care about that, and treat a freshly minted LVM snapshot like the original filesystem right after a power outage (which you should be able to withstand anyway)
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• 2244[21:30:07] <frzr> So acceptable loss of data?
• 2245[21:30:08] <frzr> :)
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• 2248[21:30:32] <frzr> Well you cant take backups each second so i guess that might be "ok"
• 2249[21:30:37] <GNU\colossus> with an RDBMS that's been set up correctly, that shouldn't happen
• 2250[21:30:46] <GNU\colossus> (loss of data due to a power outage, that is)
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• 2252[21:30:56] <frzr> if you have to restore from it 1-60min + 10sec isnt a big deal
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• 2259[21:32:40] <frzr> Yeah well, this environment needs alot of love
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• 2261[21:32:51] <frzr> and ive only been assigned 50% server work
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• 2263[21:33:04] <frzr> most of our tables dont even have primary keys
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• 2265[21:34:00] <frzr> No need to worry, only 40gb database with over 300 companies
• 2266[21:34:08] <frzr> :'(
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• 2272[21:38:48] <GNU\colossus> 40GB ought to be very manageable
• 2273[21:39:18] <GNU\colossus> on our primary db server, one could seqscan that whole db in a few seconds ;)
• 2274[21:39:26] <frzr> Largeset ive worked with :)
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• 2276[21:39:34] <frzr> well we aint working with that kind of hardware :)
• 2277[21:40:19] <frzr> We're planning on moving from our hosting provider since theyre quite frankly garbage, their disks are shit and theyve multiple times gone and debugged our machines and randomly restarted them in the middle of the day
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• 2279[21:40:41] <frzr> Scared to death now when i have to get help from one of their indian "experts"
• 2280[21:40:42] <frzr> :)
• 2281[21:40:47] <GNU\colossus> sounds like a "get out asap"-kind of provider
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• 2283[21:41:17] <frzr> Yes, but things aint moving quickly in this company, we're going to try to move late autumn
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• 2285[21:41:44] <frzr> Moving over to google cloud probably
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• 2287[21:43:15] <frzr> GNU\colossus: Do you know what risks there could be by performing a full backup at this stage of the 40gb instance of the 240gb disk thats most likely has corrupted sectors
• 2288[21:43:50] <frzr> And then check it and hopefully repair issues and get it back up and running again
• 2289[21:44:01] <GNU\colossus> frzr, as long as you're not _writing_ to that disk, you should be about as fine as you can be. to salvage/migrate the data, you're going to have to read it at least once :)
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• 2291[21:44:25] <frzr> Yes, i'm going to perform a mysqldump of the most important database, and then a full backup of the entire instance
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• 2294[21:44:44] <frzr> No writing on my part (more than the application is currently doing.. )
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• 2301[21:47:20] <frzr> Hopefully the dump of the important database goes well, otherwise i have no other option then restoring it from a slave and some rows will go missing
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• 2309[21:50:28] <GNU\colossus> you'll be fine :)
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• 2312[21:50:39] <GNU\colossus> partial data loss isn't the end of the world
• 2313[21:50:46] <GNU\colossus> if it even comes to that
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• 2316[21:52:14] <karlpinc> frzr: I've not been following along but: The recommended approach is is to use dd (or ddrescue even better) to copy the physical partition, then perform recovery from there. The more you touch a drive that is physically going bad the more will likely be lost. First get the data sectors, then recover the filesystem/etc.
• 2317[21:52:31] <karlpinc> Recover from a working disk.
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• 2333[22:00:39] <mebus> hi! how can I get a valid gpg key for squeeze, see: replaced-url
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• 2336[22:02:06] <greycat> I would imagine you do it by installing squeeze, though why you would want to install a completely unsupported, obsolete version of Debian is beyond me.
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• 2339[22:02:23] <greycat> !archive
• 2340[22:02:23] <dpkg> rumour has it, archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see replaced-url
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• 2508[23:33:57] <frzr> Urgh.. indian certified linux technicians, dont want to be that guy but i doubt the competence
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• 2522[23:42:55] <qazwsxedcrfvtgby> Fuchs is a child molester
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• 2524[23:43:18] <rustbuckett> does any know off hand how well the wacom intuos ctl-4100 is supported in Debian Stretch?
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• 2529[23:44:21] <rustbuckett> I just got it, but it's not Just Working. I haven't tried much beyond just plugging it in, but it's not moving the pointer
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• 2533[23:46:00] <zleap> rustbuckett: is this a usb device ?
• 2534[23:46:26] <gislaved> hi guys do I need to d-i partman-auto/choose_recipe select recipe-name upfront or after the recipe ?
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