People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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2 [00:00:28] <abrotman> yes
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4 [00:00:46] <milkt> motes: there is testing support channel #debian-next in irc.oftc.net
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8 [00:01:34] <jcb2016> abrotman: do you use it?
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10 [00:02:38] <Unit193> If #915298 isn't fixed, it won't be part of Buster.
11 [00:02:50] <motes> I'll ask there
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13 [00:03:23] <jcb2016> Unit193: thats gdebi?
14 [00:03:27] <Unit193> jcb2016: Instead, perhaps you should use sudo apt install ./thefile.deb
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16 [00:03:32] <Unit193> Yes, jcb2016.
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18 [00:03:47] <jcb2016> Unit193: i thought .deb was dpkg -i ?
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20 [00:04:09] <abrotman> jcb2016: I do not .. why?
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22 [00:04:16] <jcb2016> abrotman: just wondering
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24 [00:04:37] <motes> It seems that I have to be invited to join that channel
25 [00:04:51] <Unit193> jcb2016: That's one way to do it, but as you noticed it doesn't resolve dependancies so sometimes you have to run `apt install -f` afterwards. `apt install ./file.deb` is newer and doesn't have the issue.
26 [00:04:51] <jcb2016> motes: are you on oftc.net ?
27 [00:05:44] <zegil> the oftc.net debian irc is dead :'(
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29 [00:06:22] <abrotman> zegil: not really
30 [00:07:05] <motes> I'm on freenode right now
31 [00:07:23] <jcb2016> motes: open a new connection and connect to irc.oftc.net and join #debian-next
32 [00:07:33] <motes> OK
33 [00:07:42] <jcb2016> motes: im there right now. i don't use buster. i just idle
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35 [00:09:08] <zegil> abrotman: Well last time I went on it was pretty dead, meanwhile freenode is super active
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37 [00:09:19] <abrotman> different active times I'd say ..
38 [00:09:20] <zegil> abortman, is it just as active as freenode?
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40 [00:09:25] <abrotman> plus, rant is noisy ...
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42 [00:09:38] <zegil> abrotman: yeah you're probably right, I didn't go on many times
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78 [00:31:41] <kreyren> replaced-url
79 [00:31:41] <kreyren> anbox, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive. -> Where is this FTP archive?
80 [00:31:55] <kreyren> Relevant: replaced-url
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98 [00:42:54] <abrotman> kreyren: it's already in unstable .. which version of Debian are you using?
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101 [00:44:05] <kreyren> Linux debian 4.19.0-2-amd64 (Testin-Buster)
102 [00:44:09] <kreyren> *Testing
103 [00:44:36] <abrotman> you can try to just grab the package, or wait 2-10 day
104 [00:44:37] <abrotman> days
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107 [00:45:15] <kreyren> Can i use apt argument to get unstable package? Or what is the most effective way to get one package from sid?
108 [00:47:58] <kreyren> Trying .deb from replaced-url
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111 [00:49:42] <ksk> kreyren: first of all, this channel supports debian stable.
112 [00:49:47] <ksk> !tell kreyren about debian-next
113 [00:49:47] <kreyren> noted
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117 [00:50:36] <ksk> then, this package seems to have a rather long list of dependencies - which most likely means you will need to pull in newer versions of these, too. this way you will end up with
118 [00:50:40] <ksk> !frankendebian
119 [00:50:40] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
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121 [00:51:08] <ksk> so Id strongly recomend against doing that in the first place.
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124 [00:52:10] <kreyren> ksk: i'm used to running debian sid, but i never tried frankendebian. replaced-url
125 [00:52:18] <kreyren> assuming that i can ask here
126 [00:52:38] <ksk> I already tried to elaborate why this is not sane.
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128 [00:53:18] <ksk> You could just use sid instead, dont expect it not to break though.
129 [00:53:44] <somiaj> kreyren: that answer is not sane
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131 [00:54:07] <kreyren> noted, prefers buster since sid is too unstable for my current usecase.. Any way to make a container of anbox with required deps on debian?
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133 [00:54:13] <somiaj> kreyren: /msg dpkg ssb (this is my reccomendation for installing software from sid in stable)
134 [00:54:14] <kreyren> in theory make custom snap?
135 [00:54:31] <somiaj> !don't break debian
136 [00:54:31] <kreyren> somiaj: using testing not stable
137 [00:54:31] <dpkg> [dont break debian] replaced-url
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139 [00:54:44] <abrotman> kreyren: have you tried just grabbing the package and trying to install it?
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141 [00:55:10] <ksk> ,v libc6
142 [00:55:11] <judd> Package: libc6 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.13-38+deb7u10; wheezy-security: 2.13-38+deb7u12; jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; sid: 2.28-5; buster: 2.28-7
143 [00:55:13] <kreyren> yep updated replaced-url
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145 [00:55:43] <kreyren> or can i slot dependencies for anbox like on gentoo?
146 [00:55:54] <kreyren> so that multiple versions of same dep is installed?
147 [00:55:59] <somiaj> kreyren: mixing testing and sid can have its usecase, but these questions are best asked in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net. Right now I would be careful of mixing buster/sid due to buster is frozen and being stablized.
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152 [00:57:09] <kreyren> asking on debian-next, ty for info
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184 [01:24:07] <storgance> ksk: sorry on the such late response, thank you for your answer though!
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203 [01:51:01] <kreyren> How can i get this package on debian? replaced-url
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210 [01:55:46] <Deihmos> during installation there is an option to chose the kernel. what happens if i chose none how can i instal my own kernell? I tried it in a vm but it was a fail
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304 [03:01:16] <p0a> Hello
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306 [03:01:30] <p0a> I have a question, should I install packages from dpkg or should I install them from source?
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309 [03:04:25] <abrotman> why wouldn't you install them from packages?
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311 [03:04:38] <abrotman> also, I feel like asking that question means packages
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313 [03:04:53] <p0a> recent versions?
314 [03:05:05] <p0a> ubuntu has a lot of outdated stuff. maybe I don't understand how repos work
315 [03:05:30] <abrotman> This isn't #ubuntu ... but who cares if it's out of date (or stable) if it works and has the features you need?
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318 [03:05:58] <p0a> I'm just talking about previous experiences
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320 [03:06:18] <p0a> if it does have the features, sure
321 [03:06:22] <p0a> I guess I'll go with packages for now
322 [03:06:30] <p0a> I don't need much to be frank
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324 [03:07:46] <p0a> abrotman: just wanted to ask, I've done this mistake in the past and it somehow messes up the system
325 [03:07:56] <p0a> abrotman: so I was wondering if there's a safe way to do this... ?
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333 [03:12:14] <abrotman> p0a: use packages unless you have a good reason
334 [03:12:15] <abrotman> !sns
335 [03:12:15] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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338 [03:13:02] <mason> p0a: Older software has accumulated a protective layer of dust, which makes it work better.
339 [03:13:23] <abrotman> eh, I don't know if I'd say that
340 [03:13:37] <p0a> except for security patches
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343 [03:15:15] <Deihmos> how do you search the backports from this channel again?
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345 [03:16:46] <WoC> Does the amd OpenCL work in debian ? ( Found out it's broken in ubuntu)
346 [03:17:09] <p0a> in what way is it broken?
347 [03:17:24] <Deihmos> the apps in debian repos are like 3 years old
348 [03:18:08] <p0a> well that's why I'm asking if I can install selectively from source
349 [03:18:14] <p0a> there's a couple things I'd like to have updated
350 [03:18:22] <p0a> I guess dependencies can mess with that though
351 [03:18:38] <p0a> I'll try packages first and see if that deprives me of anything
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353 [03:19:43] <Deihmos> my server runs like 5 apps. they are all from the source
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361 [03:26:18] <p0a> How do I login as root? It complains about me not being in the sudoers file
362 [03:26:47] <WoC> p0a trying to run a app that runs w/o issues with nVidia GPU but wont with AMD GPU, seems like the OpenCL is built wrong
363 [03:26:59] <p0a> okay, su -l
364 [03:27:22] <p0a> WoC: what's the error? Have you asked in #ubuntu about it?
365 [03:28:03] <WoC> It's a AMD issue, so not a ubuntu issue
366 [03:28:26] <WoC> Anyhow, fixing to try Arch
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369 [03:29:05] <p0a> Why does `apt' ask me to enter a CD ?
370 [03:29:34] <p0a> If it's an AMD issue why would debian or arch make a difference I wonder...
371 [03:29:57] <p0a> nevermind I see I have to comment out a line
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393 [03:47:54] <karlpinc> p0a: You probably installed from a CD instead of using the recommended netinstall.
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398 [03:54:15] <p0a> karlpinc: yup
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401 [03:59:04] <dvs> time to comment out the CD and add the online sources
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433 [04:21:32] <Deihmos> replaced-url
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445 [04:32:22] <fulltimeret4rd> hey, someone here with experience of lvm2 in a ssd raid 1 ? Problem is the extremly poor write speed of 10 MB/s (Samsung 840 Pro) - heres a bit more info replaced-url
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448 [04:36:11] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better use lsblk instead of fdisk -l ;)
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450 [04:36:39] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so u want that output :)?
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452 [04:36:53] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: can you pastebin output of dmesg -T, lsblk and cat /proc/mdstat
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455 [04:37:28] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: sure, gimme a sec
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459 [04:38:21] <RoyK> lsblk is a wee bit easier to read than fdisk -l
460 [04:40:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: replaced-url
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463 [04:42:00] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: my only intention at the moment is that it has something to do with the ssd related issues like trim and so on. the raid was created 2015 and is running since then. in the /etc/lvm/lvm.conf i have the discard option enabled
464 [04:42:30] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better use fstrim now and then instead of mounting with trim
465 [04:42:54] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: and I'd suggest using full disks instead of partitions when you don't need them
466 [04:43:36] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: that would be my next question, do i need trim/fstrim enabled on the host system or is the lvm discard enough?
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468 [04:44:28] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: btw im using the full disk
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470 [04:44:44] <RoyK> depends on whether the controller supports UNMAP/TRIM
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472 [04:45:00] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: no, you're using partitions on a lot on those ;)
473 [04:45:10] <RoyK> see lsblk output
474 [04:46:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but again - I don't think that's the issue
475 [04:46:49] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok, should i just set up trim or fstrim ?
476 [04:47:06] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but all of those messages on sdc and sdd - no data - what is that?
477 [04:47:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: dont know
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480 [04:47:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: maybe the problem starts there
481 [04:47:39] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: which debian version is this? which kernel?
482 [04:47:53] <RoyK> something seems dodgy there
483 [04:48:05] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: root@proxmox2:~# uname -r 4.15.18-10-pve root@proxmox2:~# cat /etc/debian_version 9.8
484 [04:48:18] <mason> proooooxxxxx...... mooooooooxxxxx.....
485 [04:48:29] <mason> Which is to say, not Debian.
486 [04:48:59] <fulltimeret4rd> true, but this issue has nothing to do with prxmx
487 [04:49:47] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: 4.15 isn't in stable
488 [04:51:01] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: any SID fishing going on?
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490 [04:51:48] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: btw, replaced-url
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493 [04:52:38] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: what do u mean by sid fishing?
494 [04:53:00] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: where did the kernel package come from?
495 [04:53:19] <mason> RoyK: From proxmox, presumably.
496 [04:53:19] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: apt source?
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498 [04:53:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: deb replaced-url
499 [04:54:06] <RoyK> ok - anyway
500 [04:54:40] <RoyK> something is strange with those two drives or the interconnects
501 [04:55:05] <fulltimeret4rd> look at 23:2x
502 [04:55:21] <fulltimeret4rd> where i dd write a 1 Gig file
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504 [04:55:41] <RoyK> and it's peculiar that it's no messages there - just the device name
505 [04:55:45] <RoyK> never seen that
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507 [04:57:40] <fulltimeret4rd> how would u describe that in 3 words (for a googlesearch)
508 [04:57:48] <fulltimeret4rd> the dmesg bug
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510 [04:58:17] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: are all of those disks connected to the same controller?
511 [04:58:27] <fulltimeret4rd> same sata controller
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513 [04:58:44] <fulltimeret4rd> its an asus board with haswell chipset
514 [04:59:15] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: I just don't get it that you don't get any messages in dmesg and only the device names
515 [04:59:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ye i just searched the web but cannot find anything to that
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517 [05:00:11] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: can you try an official kernel from debian?
518 [05:00:18] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: just to see if something changes
519 [05:00:48] <fulltimeret4rd> i will if im in the office
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523 [05:01:43] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: check smartctl -a for those disks too
524 [05:02:36] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: cant do anything with the raid at the moment cause the vpn is running on one of those ssds - if i write for example 1 GIG to that raid, all vms on it instantly crash and ofc my connection interrupts
525 [05:03:20] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: smartctl doesn't generate any i/o traffic unless you give it -t
526 [05:04:14] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: replaced-url
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528 [05:05:16] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: looks good - what sort of fs do you have on top?
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530 [05:07:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: not sure what u mean, wasnt set up by me, its an raid 1 with one lvm2 on it - running only idleing debian servers...
531 [05:08:21] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: ext4? xfs? jfs? btrfs?
532 [05:08:34] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: DOS
533 [05:09:04] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so basically RAW, in fstab this lvm2 is mounted with the option EXT4,
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535 [05:10:11] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: sorry its mounted with the ext3 option: "/dev/mapper/pve-data /opt/data ext3 defaults 0 2"
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537 [05:10:39] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: ok - ext3 isn't recommended anymore - it's 10+ years old
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539 [05:10:49] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better convert that to ext4
540 [05:11:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: and run fstrim on the fs after converting
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543 [05:11:26] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: perhaps fstrim supports ext3 also - dunno
544 [05:11:30] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: true, but it isnt ext3 right? u saw the fdisk from the pastebin
545 [05:12:17] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: thats the problem for me at the moment - dunno anything about lvm
546 [05:12:22] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: run mount - check what it says
547 [05:12:38] <RoyK> I really doubt this is related to lvm
548 [05:12:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: "/dev/mapper/pve-data on /opt/data type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)"
549 [05:13:39] <RoyK> just don't use ext3 unless you have a very good reason to it, which I really can't picture
550 [05:14:22] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: is this system an old system upgraded from an older thing?
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552 [05:15:08] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i get u, but that shouldnt downgrade ssd performance to 10 MB/s, yes we recently upgraded the system from kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
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555 [05:15:47] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: but the thing is we dont know if the problem was there before
556 [05:15:50] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: seems fstrim supports ext3
557 [05:16:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: at least what I can read after a few google searches
558 [05:16:27] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so should i just install it and run it once?
559 [05:16:40] <RoyK> should work
560 [05:16:50] <RoyK> and cron it to run weekly or something
561 [05:16:58] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: is the filesystem full?
562 [05:17:56] <RoyK> full filesystems, especially old stuff like ext3, get very fragmented when full
563 [05:18:24] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: like i said: pastebin.com/rzH1PKBR
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565 [05:18:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i dont get the alloc and used thing
566 [05:19:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: there are thick provisioned vms in total of around 250 GB, the actual used space is 100GB but lvm says its used to 98%
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568 [05:21:27] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: that doesn't show the fill of the filesystems
569 [05:22:23] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: a df -h says "/dev/mapper/pve-data Size 443G Used 108G Aviable332G 25% /opt/data
570 [05:22:39] <RoyK> that's not the filesystem
571 [05:22:45] <RoyK> oh
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573 [05:22:47] <RoyK> yes
574 [05:22:49] <RoyK> sorry
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577 [05:23:04] <RoyK> anyway - try to run fstrim first
578 [05:23:08] <RoyK> then change to ext4
579 [05:23:43] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: u know roundabout how long this will take for a 840 pro 500GB ?
580 [05:24:00] <RoyK> a few minutes at most
581 [05:24:09] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: k, thanks
582 [05:24:12] <RoyK> probably far less
583 [05:24:59] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: fstrim -a?
584 [05:25:11] <RoyK> fstrim /mountpoint
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586 [05:25:21] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok
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708 [05:26:50] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: fstrim is not even in my repos...
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713 [05:28:24] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: it should be in util-linux
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716 [05:28:35] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: which should be installed already
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718 [05:28:54] <phazon> fulltimeret4rd: it is part of the 'essential' pkg set; you definitely have it
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722 [05:30:13] <phazon> it's under /sbin, which isn't in the default $PATH for most users
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725 [05:31:36] <RoyK> phazon: it's in path if you do something like 'sudo -i' or 'su -'
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728 [05:32:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: its running with I/O 98.81 % fstrim /opt/data
729 [05:32:51] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: that's good
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732 [05:33:08] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: and no crashes so far :)
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734 [05:33:21] <RoyK> which is also good :)
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737 [05:36:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: 1073741824 Bytes (1,1 GB, 1,0 GiB) copied, 9,2763 s, 116 MB/s
738 [05:36:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i love u
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740 [05:36:56] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: not perfect speeds but atleast something to work on
741 [05:37:34] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: not sure if I want to kiss you, but thank you <3
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743 [05:38:09] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but better change that to ext4 - it's far better for large files
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745 [05:38:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i will for sure
746 [05:38:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: but need to be in range to the server if i do that
747 [05:39:29] <RoyK> yes, and make a backup first
748 [05:39:48] <RoyK> that is - always keep a backup, regardless of redundancy
749 [05:40:01] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so basically, unmount, convert, remount
750 [05:40:09] <RoyK> yes
751 [05:40:23] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: nothing special to take care about in a raid?
752 [05:40:36] <RoyK> or perhaps better - backup, create ext4 and restore
753 [05:40:55] <RoyK> since the newer versions of ext4 has things that can't be migrated
754 [05:41:10] <RoyK> about the raid, none
755 [05:41:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i think i will do a fresh ext4 like u said
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758 [05:41:53] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: I'd recommend that if you have the time
759 [05:42:24] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: or even - use xfs
760 [05:42:39] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: thats what i wanted to ask
761 [05:42:43] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but that wouldn't be necessary for such a small filesystem
762 [05:43:01] <RoyK> ext4 is well tested and works
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764 [05:43:14] <RoyK> xfs is better for bigger filesystems
765 [05:43:32] <RoyK> redhat/centos uses xfs for everything these days
766 [05:43:47] <RoyK> I stick to ext4 for small things and use xfs for large things
767 [05:43:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i red something about ZFS, it should be better for a proxmox vm storage in case of snapshotting etc,
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770 [05:44:23] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: zfs rocks, really - I've been working with it for 10 years or so
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774 [05:45:29] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but I don't usually recommend it, since it's not in the official repos, that is, what's in the official repos is the FUSE thing, which isn't too good
775 [05:45:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: the thing is i have to read like 2 days at the moment, cause im new to that proxmox thing... everyone is telling something else - LVM, ThinLVM or ZFS
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777 [05:46:25] <RoyK> better use ZFS, then
778 [05:46:38] <RoyK> and toss in an SSD or two for caching
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780 [05:46:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok one more thing, i forget why but shouldn i switch to GPT too? even its only 500gig
781 [05:47:00] <RoyK> that is - for the rotational rust
782 [05:47:17] <RoyK> no need for a partition table with mdraid
783 [05:47:28] <RoyK> with zfs, it'll create GPT for you
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785 [05:47:49] <RoyK> but zero out the partition table if you want zfs
786 [05:48:05] <RoyK> something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=1M count=1
787 [05:48:46] <RoyK> make sure it's the right device ;)
788 [05:49:32] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok, thanks a lot mate!
789 [05:49:42] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: np :)
790 [05:50:02] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: btw, where're you from?
791 [05:50:09] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: .de
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793 [05:50:18] <RoyK> .no
794 [05:50:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: norway? :D
795 [05:50:37] <RoyK> oslo
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797 [05:50:59] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: Well not as fast as Stockholm i guess :D
798 [05:51:18] <RoyK> hm?
799 [05:51:42] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: scandinavian internet rumors, nevermind :D
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801 [05:51:55] <RoyK> where in .de?
802 [05:52:48] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ye, our tech websites always stunned about infratructure in for example sweden
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804 [05:53:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: in germany almost high dense country with the worst bandwidht
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959 [06:07:39] <echeveria> when rebooting into memtest86 from debian stable, I'm seeing no video output on most of my machines. serial isn't an option, is there any fallback video modes I'm missing?
960 [06:08:07] <echeveria> it works on an Intel NUC, doesn't work on a Thinkpad X1C6.
961 [06:09:07] <echeveria> it seems to actually boot (beeps, etc), but no output
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964 [06:10:19] <tarzeau> echeveria: try user space memtester?
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966 [06:10:37] <tarzeau> that also allows you to check GPU memory (using metestCL, not officially in debian though)
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968 [06:10:46] <tarzeau> ok NUCs don't usually have nvidia gpus right?
969 [06:11:16] <tarzeau> echeveria: i've had similar problems, and non-x86 computers with the need to test memory (solaris/linux on sparc/usparc) , 10 years ago
970 [06:11:22] <echeveria> it's an i5 NUC using the on CPU graphics. the thinkpad is similar in hardware, other than the resolution.
971 [06:11:26] <tarzeau> i gave up on the bios memtest86(+)
972 [06:11:48] <tarzeau> simply it's also slow on very large memory systems (512 GB-1.5 TB)
973 [06:11:59] <echeveria> userspace memtester works fine, but it'd be nice to have the full one. I have to think it's something about the way it's passing video modes or something.
974 [06:12:02] <tarzeau> and memtester allows you to split it in parts, run several areas in parallel
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976 [06:12:34] <tarzeau> full? you want to be able spot the right faulty memory module
977 [06:12:51] <tarzeau> it doesn't matter if it's a full one or not. you only want to get the thing fixed, no?
978 [06:13:25] <tarzeau> and you run it because you run into problems or because you're bored?
979 [06:13:48] <echeveria> I'm trying to absolutely rule out memory corruption for causing checksum errors in a ZFS set. memtester in userland for ~24 hours passes.
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981 [06:14:13] <tarzeau> echeveria: and you test all your memory? then it's not your memory
982 [06:14:27] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ()
983 [06:14:33] <tarzeau> do you have radiation or other radio stuff near the computer?
984 [06:14:48] <tarzeau> how often do you get checksum errors?
985 [06:15:01] <tarzeau> isn't nuc the cheap intel low power hardware?
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987 [06:16:10] <echeveria> it only runs on the NUC. it doesn't run on a thinkpad, or a fairly well specced server. short of replacing the HBA card in it, there's not a lot else that could be causing tens of checksum errors a day in ZFS.
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991 [06:16:38] <echeveria> yeah, I need to replace the memory with ECC, but in the mean time I'm very curious to find the root cause.
992 [06:16:58] <tarzeau> echeveria: and zfs with debian and linux, versions?
993 [06:17:27] <tarzeau> echeveria: so on the NUC you don't have checksum errors, but on the thinkpad you do?
994 [06:17:46] <tarzeau> and it's not the disks?
995 [06:18:46] <echeveria> no. NUC boots into memtest86. thinkpad boots to a black screen. server boots to a black screen. both devices failing have very different graphics outputs (Intel i7M, AMD RYZEN).
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997 [06:19:59] <echeveria> I suspect this is something to do with EFI, but doesn't sound like there's anything obvious I'm not doing.
998 [06:20:16] <tarzeau> echeveria: and you tried both memtest86 and memtest86+ ?
999 [06:20:19] <echeveria> yup.
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1002 [06:20:45] <tarzeau> echeveria: consult upstream or debian via replaced-url
1003 [06:21:29] <tarzeau> echeveria: my report from 2006: replaced-url
1004 [06:21:30] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1005 [06:21:47] <tarzeau> echeveria: get the source and have fun debugging :)
1006 [06:22:13] <tarzeau> your best chance. if user space memtester does not show errors, i'd saychance is 99% memtest86* won't find one either
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1014 [06:34:03] <echeveria> will file.
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1024 [06:49:53] <agio> hi, does anyone know if the certbot package in repo's is considered new enough? or is it better to use a newer version from certbot.org directly?
1025 [06:50:25] <agio> specifically I mean Version: 0.28.0-1~deb9u1 (from stretch archive)
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1028 [06:53:06] <Unit193> The only version problems I see are reported in bug #888703, which indicate 0.10 is too old and 0.21 is needed, which 0.28 most certainly covers.
1029 [06:53:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1033 [06:56:00] <agio> thanks yes, the backports version doesn't seem too much newer either, it's: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1
1034 [06:56:53] <agio> so it looks like its still the same upstream code, and may in fact contain no other updates ?
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1039 [07:01:51] <fling> jmcnaught: Dark-Jedi: is it fine to just remove iceweasel and install firefox?
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1051 [07:06:43] <fling> I switched all the sid to buster a while ago and still no issues!
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1054 [07:08:54] <storgance> Holy moly
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1176 [08:40:40] <agio> hi, does any know how I can find out about the polkit bug in the context of debians apt repo's? i.e. what the bug is, which packages version are vulnerable, which are fixed etc?
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1274 [09:38:14] <KOJIbKA> Hi all using Stretch with Gnome installed on old Toshiba notebook I can't copy anything - neither file nor text by Ctrl+C shortcut key. The whole system logs off and Gnome session is terminated as I copy anything with this shortcut. Why is that and how to change default keyboard behavior to avoid it?
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1276 [09:39:53] <fling> KOJIbKA: how do you login? gdm?
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1278 [09:40:07] <KOJIbKA> fling: yes
1279 [09:41:31] <KOJIbKA> And upon applying the keyboard shortcut I got reversed to it
1280 [09:42:07] <KOJIbKA> Is it a bug?
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1312 [10:08:36] <fling> KOJIbKA: anything interesting in gdm log?
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1314 [10:09:29] <KOJIbKA> fling: how to figure it out?
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1324 [10:13:41] <KOJIbKA> fling: well it's empty
1325 [10:14:05] <KOJIbKA> I mean the log file is not present
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1328 [10:14:25] <fling> KOJIbKA: try enabling it
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1425 [11:01:39] <plantroon> I locked the password of root account (via passwd -l root) and now I can't use key-based authentication. What the .. :(
1426 [11:02:04] <plantroon> has this happened to anybody yet?
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1428 [11:02:57] <blackflow> plantroon: that's normal. ssh won't allow login to locked accounts. I _think_ it's PAM related, not sure
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1432 [11:04:28] <plantroon> single user mode doesn't work either :( neither via single init=/bin/sh, nor systemd rescue or emergency mode :(
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1436 [11:05:24] <petn-randall> plantroon: Why would init=/bin/sh not work?
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1438 [11:05:45] <petn-randall> That completely bypasses any PAM.
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1441 [11:06:18] <plantroon> says cannot open access to console the root access is locked
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1448 [11:07:29] <petn-randall> plantroon: What OS release are you running?
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1450 [11:07:40] <plantroon> stretch
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1457 [11:12:45] <blackflow> I wonder why people think locking out root like that makes any sense. Wanna disallow root login over ssh? Use AllowUsers or AllowGroups to specifically allow your sudoer to login (which then denies all else). do not disallow root login on the console unless you want grief like this.
1458 [11:13:09] <blackflow> (hell, use PermitRootLogin directive too! it has a nice "without-password" option too)
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1480 [11:22:45] <plantroon> from man passwd -l: Note that this does not disable the account. The user may still be able to login using another authentication token (e.g. an SSH key).
1481 [11:22:53] <plantroon> I dunno :(
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1486 [11:25:13] <blackflow> plantroon: disable PAM and try (UsePAM=no)
1487 [11:25:40] <blackflow> as a test. it's PAM doing this.
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1489 [11:26:32] <plantroon> actually PAM is disabled if I remember correctly
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1491 [11:26:56] <plantroon> I have no access to the server. Single user mode doesn't work, ssh doesn't work :D I'll have to use a rescue USB
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1493 [11:27:27] <blackflow> plantroon: please define "doesn't work"
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1498 [11:28:59] <plantroon> when I boot with the following parameters: single init=/bin/sh, it says "cannot open access to console the root access is locked "
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1500 [11:31:34] <blackflow> hrm.... replaced-url
1501 [11:31:35] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1502 [11:32:29] <blackflow> but that's for the rescue service. for bin/sh init... I suppose it's still trying to open the tty and something something PAM and poof you're done. like I said, lots of grief, zero gain when locking root account...
1503 [11:33:02] <blackflow> (done = cooked, goof'd, no dice)
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1505 [11:33:39] <plantroon> I see that now xD but generally I have no need to set root pw on any machines. If things go wrong, I just redeploy
1506 [11:33:56] <blackflow> then redeploy this :)
1507 [11:34:14] <plantroon> yeah that's what I'll do it seems
1508 [11:34:25] <plantroon> but I wanted to go through this learning experience
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1510 [11:35:31] <blackflow> ubuntu locks out root by default. one of dumbest advices and default configs a FOSS distro could do, in the past 30 years.
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1514 [11:35:58] <plantroon> why ? :(
1515 [11:36:04] <blackflow> unfortunately that spread like fire in a papermill and people picking up the advice even unrelated to ubuntu
1516 [11:36:07] <plantroon> I actually like having a separate admin user
1517 [11:36:19] <blackflow> separate admin user has nothing to do with locking root
1518 [11:36:33] <plantroon> but that's what ubuntu does, no? It gives another user sudo rights
1519 [11:36:35] <blackflow> I do separate admin user. but root always has a pass I can `su -l` to if needed, or login via console.
1520 [11:36:44] <blackflow> locking root has ZERO security gain
1521 [11:36:53] <plantroon> true
1522 [11:36:55] <blackflow> non-root login into sudoer has MARGINAL security gain
1523 [11:37:39] <blackflow> plantroon: well see that's the problem. not all subsystems of a GNU/Linux distro will care about sudo
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1527 [11:37:56] <blackflow> infact, sudo is ONLY (ONLY!) relevant for interactive command line
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1533 [11:39:57] <koollman> blackflow: I don't consider it a bad decision, but it's usually badly implemented, like single-mode not testing correctly for root locked-out account
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1535 [11:40:52] <blackflow> koollman: unless you encrypt the disks, total inability to log in as root has ZERO benefit.
1536 [11:41:18] <koollman> that's just too strongly absolute statement to be true :)
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1538 [11:42:03] <koollman> if you don't encrypt the disk, putting a password on root isn't very useful either, so ... :)
1539 [11:42:18] <blackflow> it's not. again, using a non-root administrative sudoer does not conflict with root having A password set
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1541 [11:42:37] <Haxxa> I moved my Debian Server to the alcohol cupboard, seems like a fitting place for it. Now when I have a HDD Fail I have the perfect solution ;) replaced-url
1542 [11:42:38] <blackflow> name one vector where locking out root helps in any meaningufl way
1543 [11:42:59] <blackflow> with remote access, you can disable root login with other means. with console access, if the attacker is at your console, it's game over.
1544 [11:43:09] <plantroon> even if you do encrypt the disk, the password on root has no point imo :D :D
1545 [11:43:10] <koollman> blackflow: one less password that can be found if it leaks out
1546 [11:43:17] <blackflow> wants access to the drives? boots into USB, mounts disks (hence the "if not FDE") and does whatever.
1547 [11:43:33] <koollman> I mean, I do set passwords for root, but just because I don't have another decent alternative currently
1548 [11:43:37] <blackflow> koollman: that's not attack vector
1549 [11:43:40] <koollman> they are hard and unique
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1552 [11:44:43] <blackflow> Haxxa: you've got one big flaw there. instead of being chilled, your booze is now lukewarm
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1554 [11:45:21] <blackflow> koollman: strong root password solves all those things you mentioned. going one step further and locking it? solves nothing.
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1556 [11:45:58] <blackflow> I'll correct myself: it solves the lazy admin's getting-out-of-bed-blocker aka "haz to think about and set a root pass too!"
1557 [11:46:06] <koollman> blackflow: it is functionnaly equivalent, with the added benefit that there is a guaranteed impossibility to login as root even if something is not configured correctly
1558 [11:46:34] <blackflow> obvs it's not functionally equivalent. with locked root, any subsystem consulting PAM will say "Nope". With strong pass, it will allow access.
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1560 [11:46:48] <koollman> which is a feature, for me :)
1561 [11:46:49] <blackflow> it'll say Nope even if YOU say "But I'm root! Your God! Here's the pass!"
1562 [11:47:02] * blackflow shrugs.
1563 [11:47:09] <Haxxa> true I should invest in MOAR PC FANS!
1564 [11:47:19] <blackflow> if it works for you? go ahead. but in general, it's a dumb advice.
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1566 [11:47:51] <koollman> I mean it is exactl why I want root to be locked. no way to become root without going through very specific apps. and in particular not just regular pam.
1567 [11:47:51] <ayekat> also, "if things are not configured correctly", a lot else can go wrong, too
1568 [11:48:21] <koollman> but ... I cannot do that currently because it causes too much trouble, so I do set a very strong root password that I do not know, on my machines, and that I can find with an algorithm :)
1569 [11:48:25] <koollman> works well enough
1570 [11:48:34] <blackflow> koollman: right and that's the false sense of security thinking locked root will do anything good over a strong root pass. so many vulnerabilities exist that can elevate privilege and laugh at your configurations.
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1573 [11:49:04] <ayekat> and if a potential attacker has physical access to the machine (under the assumption that everything is configured correctly) having a root password set or not won't change anything either
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1575 [11:49:16] <ayekat> so +1 for setting a (strong) root password to avoid trouble
1576 [11:49:19] <koollman> blackflow: I still consider 'no usable password' stronger than 'one usable password'. I do agree that it's a small difference if the password is strong and the hash is good
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1578 [11:50:43] <toolz> any cacti user around?
1579 [11:51:26] <ayekat> !ask
1580 [11:51:26] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1581 [11:51:32] <blackflow> koollman: mathematically? it is, yes, stronger. in practice the gain is insignificant. Like getting one more frame per second in a game that already does over 60
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1584 [11:53:55] <koollman> blackflow: still not 'ZERO benefit' :)
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1588 [11:54:09] <blackflow> it's also very bad advice because newbie users think they "don't have root account". I've seen this over and over in #ubuntu. they think they're safe as there's no root at all, which is completely false. so many reasons, not just insignificant gain, why I think it's a very dumb advice.
1589 [11:54:12] <koollman> and that's assuming all software is working as designed, of course
1590 [11:54:26] <toolz> how do I export last 6 hours in cacti using graph_image.php - I upgraded to latest version of cacti 1.2.2 and I only got last 24 hours no matter what end/start graph I choose
1591 [11:54:53] <blackflow> koollman: as long as you're aware of it, that's okay. so I said that as a general, globally appliacable advice, it's a bad one.
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1593 [11:55:13] <koollman> blackflow: for this part I am not sure how good or bad it is. no password is not no account, I do know that perfectly. I assume it can be confusing for new users though, right
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1595 [11:55:51] <blackflow> yup.
1596 [11:56:02] <koollman> I also think default using with full sudo access is dangerous, if you consider ubuntu defaults :)
1597 [11:56:07] <koollman> s/using/user/
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1604 [11:59:54] <FinalX> koollman: for a long time they even allowed password logins over ssh, with the ubuntu user not having a password in the default bootstrap; leaving it completeely open to the world, and anyone could just log in without a password and become root without a password through sudo
1605 [11:59:58] <FinalX> it was horrid :p
1606 [12:00:04] <FinalX> ..they changeed that behaviour now, tho
1607 [12:00:30] <koollman> well, everyone makes mistake, although that one sound interesting :)
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1609 [12:00:48] <FinalX> yeah, not so much when you spool up an lxc container and then having it owned in less than 2 min
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1611 [12:01:15] <colo-work> nice
1612 [12:01:17] <FinalX> their excuse was that the template had a user/pass parameter for the default user and that it's your own fault if you don't supply them
1613 [12:01:28] <colo-work> that's the kind of "public" cloud I can appreciate
1614 [12:01:42] <FinalX> what does that have to do with cloud?
1615 [12:02:14] <FinalX> it's got everything to do with ubuntu's default settings; creating an all-powerful user, without password, and allowing those to log in remotely
1616 [12:02:22] <colo-work> you'll have to use your imagination a tiny bit to make the leap
1617 [12:02:24] <FinalX> cloud or no cloud
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1623 [12:06:46] <EdePopede> there seem to be an ongoing competition for some years to find the most ridiculous method to mess up user/pass authentication.
1624 [12:07:01] <blackflow> hence the dumb advice. misplaced, ignorant beliefe that caused more grief. want block root login over ssh? "PermitRootLogin no" done.
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1629 [12:10:30] <FinalX> blackflow: not done, at all. Ubuntu had it set to prohobit-password, which is great. but then adds a password-less "ubuntu"-user with sudo NOPASSWD rights, able to do *everything* as root anyway, and not having PasswordAuthentication disabled allowed the whole world to log in.
1630 [12:10:37] <FinalX> blackflow: there's more than one road that leads to Rome.. ;)
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1632 [12:11:15] <blackflow> uhm... well yes, if you change "no" to anything else. with "no", there's no root login over ssh.
1633 [12:11:30] <FinalX> that's what I'm saying
1634 [12:11:31] <blackflow> pam, no pam, passwd, nopasswd, ! or *, doesn't matter.
1635 [12:11:37] <FinalX> you don't *NEED* to log in as root directly
1636 [12:11:52] <FinalX> you can just log in as ubuntu@machine with *NO* password and *become* root without using a password
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1638 [12:12:00] <FinalX> and you're still root@machine.
1639 [12:12:20] <blackflow> what I was trying to say is, that their belief in creating a more secure system by messing with root password, did more grief. if they wanted to prevent root login over ssh, they should've only set PermitRootLogin, and be done with it, messing with nothing else.
1640 [12:12:23] <FinalX> setting it to "no" in sshd_config will not prevent you from logging in as a mortal user and becoming root
1641 [12:12:42] <ksk> FinalX: oh, you are also in here? morning ;)
1642 [12:12:45] <FinalX> in fact, root's password is even locked in the same install, you can't log in as root
1643 [12:12:49] <FinalX> morning ;)
1644 [12:12:52] <blackflow> and thus they went on to mess with passwd and caused more problems.
1645 [12:13:33] <blackflow> but wait, ubuntu had NOPASSWD sudoer line in the past?
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1668 [12:25:32] <ksk> not sure what you are talking about, but on -my- ubuntu system I dont have any NOPASSWD sudoer lines ;)
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1672 [12:30:57] <ksk> btw, did eh, the default behaviour regarding "copying things on your terminal with your mouse" of vim change in debian some time ago? (like my new boxes seem to enter VISUAL mode automagicly if I try to copy anything)
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1674 [12:32:43] <ksk> I configmanagmented it away, but still sometimes accounter it on 3rd party servers.
1675 [12:32:55] <ksk> *encounter
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1703 [12:48:34] <blackflow> ksk: there's no shortage of foot shootage in linux usage :)
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1706 [12:49:18] <ksk> just interested why this was deemed a good change, cuz I'm always like raging if this happens :D
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1712 [12:54:24] <blackflow> for the same reason systemd-resolved is a good default, netplan.io is totally not a 15th standard and thus good for you, and infinite rewrites of the installer is NotABadThing(tm). I promised I'd stop bashing 'buntu, so make your own conclusions about competency of 'buntu devs. Oh, shoot, I promissed...... :)
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1724 [13:05:28] <tarzeau> blackflow: you can easily get rid of netplan.io, we're just removing it, be done
1725 [13:05:55] <tarzeau> my biggest issue is systemd-networkd with renamed network interfaces. i hate it
1726 [13:06:18] <tarzeau> blackflow: likewise for snap. it's ugly, same with flatpak, appimage
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1728 [13:06:58] <blackflow> tarzeau: I know. We were discussing defaults and changes.
1729 [13:07:54] <tarzeau> ah, did i say i hate systemd?
1730 [13:08:15] <tarzeau> and the new ifconfig, netstat?
1731 [13:08:23] <tarzeau> the linux proprietary i mean
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1734 [13:09:17] <blackflow> "proprietary"
1735 [13:09:31] <tarzeau> well it's retarded. tell me what you want
1736 [13:09:49] <tarzeau> there was a cheatsheet of changing mac addresses, all were similar, except windows
1737 [13:09:55] <tarzeau> but now linux also belongs to the shit
1738 [13:10:10] <blackflow> BSDs are that way ---->
1739 [13:10:11] <FinalX> tarzeau: you can fix the renaming, though, and netplan allows you to rename interfaces based on hwaddress as well
1740 [13:10:11] <tarzeau> glad there's debian gnu/kfreebsd
1741 [13:10:21] <tarzeau> FinalX: it's not like i don't know that
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1744 [13:10:35] <tarzeau> blackflow: i'm an NeXT/NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP guy...
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1747 [13:11:08] <tarzeau> so looking forward to a microkernel where drivers can die without bringing down the system: plan9, barrelfish, minix, sel4
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1750 [13:11:29] <koollman> hurd ? :)
1751 [13:11:35] <tarzeau> haha
1752 [13:11:44] <tarzeau> 32bit, no sound drivers? in 2019?
1753 [13:11:54] <tarzeau> maybe reactos ?
1754 [13:11:58] <FinalX> 32? 16, of course.
1755 [13:12:14] <tarzeau> and ext2, haha
1756 [13:12:14] <koollman> I don't think reactos has separate drivers. I could be wrong
1757 [13:12:26] <tarzeau> koollman: you can have it on fat or btrfs meanwhile
1758 [13:12:34] <tarzeau> and i like UFS2
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1760 [13:12:37] <tarzeau> btrfs and xfs
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1762 [13:13:39] * jelly imagines tarzeau as the last standing Mail.app user
1763 [13:13:51] <blackflow> tarzeau: but not ZFS? :)
1764 [13:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1538
1765 [13:14:19] <blackflow> "linux is shit" but "I like btrfs"..... gotta get your priorities straight :)
1766 [13:14:36] <blackflow> oopsie, sorry for my klingon.
1767 [13:15:30] <tarzeau> jelly: GNUMail.app
1768 [13:15:51] <tarzeau> blackflow: i hate the linux OOM
1769 [13:16:20] <tarzeau> blackflow: if my workspace would not depend on linux specific software (binaries), i'd switch to debian gnu/kfreebsd right away
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1773 [13:17:41] <koollman> tarzeau: well, you can somewhat disable the oom, even if it's still not perfect
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1776 [13:17:45] <blackflow> I wouldn't. just fresh example. the freebsd kernel hard crahes (with nothing logged) with a badly seated SATA cable.
1777 [13:17:51] <koollman> (I do hate it too)
1778 [13:17:52] <blackflow> linux at least logged ata errors
1779 [13:18:21] <blackflow> took me ove a week to figure out why the F is the freebsd server hard crashing like that, with no immediate software based hardware checks showing anything
1780 [13:18:25] <tarzeau> koollman: how?
1781 [13:18:37] <tarzeau> koollman: i'm using OOM=kernel panic, kernel panic=reboot
1782 [13:18:52] <blackflow> reseated sata cable, poof crashes gone. if anything "belongs to the <feces>", it's that
1783 [13:18:59] <tarzeau> simply because i don't trust the software anymore after it randomly kills a process. esp. on multi user systems
1784 [13:19:24] <tarzeau> blackflow: on minix, the hd driver would go berserk, and you'd just restart/start that
1785 [13:19:26] <blackflow> tarzeau: you can adjust the oom priorities. OOM is good. locking up entire OS because your kernel doesn't have it and is out of RAM? not good.
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1789 [13:19:40] <jelly> blackflow: wrong!
1790 [13:19:45] <tarzeau> blackflow: never worked for me. i have it reboot. done
1791 [13:19:46] <blackflow> right!
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1794 [13:20:12] <jelly> OOM default behaviour is absolutely unpredictable, I prefer whole box rebooting than some crucial process dying
1795 [13:20:14] <koollman> tarzeau: setting sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85), then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2
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1797 [13:20:34] <koollman> I would rather have malloc return null than process being killed :)
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1802 [13:20:53] <koollman> the trouble is there are not good memory abstraction for many things used nowadays
1803 [13:20:56] <jelly> koollman: show me apps that deal with that grafuclly
1804 [13:21:05] <tarzeau> koollman: what if your software doesn't check the malloc return value??
1805 [13:21:09] <blackflow> jelly: which kinda amounts to the same DoS situation doesn't it. :) because the only way out is "add more RAM" or "moar swap" (bad) or "cgroup limits so you can control who does what".
1806 [13:21:10] <koollman> jelly: postgresql, mysql, php, apache, ...
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1808 [13:21:19] <tarzeau> jelly: exactly, THAT is the point. likewise with writes to files!
1809 [13:21:31] <koollman> jelly: if it doesn't, it crahes. I'm fine with that. it is predictable and debuggable
1810 [13:21:47] <tarzeau> blackflow: we got 1.5TB + 2TB SSD SWAP, people run out of memory
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1812 [13:21:58] <koollman> the trouble is that they cannot handle it gracefully if oom is involved
1813 [13:22:07] <blackflow> tarzeau: right, so linux gives you that control. FreeBSD does too, kinda, with jails and rctl. Other BSDs I don't think so
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1816 [13:22:53] <blackflow> koollman: but <random> process crashing (and oom is logged so you know why!) amounts to the same as whole server rebooting: it's a DoS.
1817 [13:23:01] <tarzeau> i like zram thouch. macos has it default since years
1818 [13:23:08] <koollman> blackflow: my point was : disable oom
1819 [13:23:10] <blackflow> in my case I'd prefer it NOT boot because I use FDE and would then have to whitelist the server for reboot
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1822 [13:23:21] <tarzeau> blackflow: fde?
1823 [13:23:26] <blackflow> full disk encryption
1824 [13:23:35] <koollman> blackflow: then it's not a random process crashing, the failing process is the one that cannot handle lack of memory
1825 [13:23:38] <tarzeau> dict said: Full Duplex Ethernet (ethernet)
1826 [13:23:40] <koollman> much easier to debug
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1828 [13:23:46] <koollman> or avoid
1829 [13:23:52] <blackflow> remote servers are encrypted, and initramfs needs that server whitelisted with a key so it may reboot -- or unlocked over ssh
1830 [13:24:10] <jelly> koollman: incorrect, the kernel chooses which process to kill
1831 [13:24:12] <blackflow> koollman: no I think OOM will headshot any random processnot just the one that wanted moar RAM
1832 [13:24:25] <blackflow> BUT.... oom priorities can adjust taht
1833 [13:24:25] <tarzeau> jelly: and often gets the wrong one
1834 [13:24:40] <blackflow> you can say which processes are more critical and should be considered less for a boom headshot.
1835 [13:24:46] <tarzeau> blackflow: SHOULD I CARE?
1836 [13:24:52] <koollman> I will repeat then: setting sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85), then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2 -> disable most cases for oom
1837 [13:24:58] <koollman> no oom, no randomness :)
1838 [13:24:58] <tarzeau> blackflow: the kernel is not got to shoot down kernel processes
1839 [13:25:00] <tarzeau> EVER!
1840 [13:25:11] <blackflow> tarzeau: only you can answer that. just don't make it into an absolute, uncorrectible problem because it's not
1841 [13:25:39] <blackflow> koollman: also oom_score
1842 [13:25:41] <tarzeau> i'm sorry i really belive it is
1843 [13:25:51] <koollman> blackflow: don't need it with sys.vm.overcommit_memory=2
1844 [13:26:02] <blackflow> tarzeau: that's just your belief then.
1845 [13:26:09] <koollman> because ... no overcommit. no situation for out of ram handling
1846 [13:26:22] <blackflow> overcommit is okay if you know what you're doing.
1847 [13:26:34] <tarzeau> some use mmap not malloc
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1849 [13:26:38] <tarzeau> how does the kernel handle that?
1850 [13:26:40] <blackflow> but indeed, plenty of ways to ensure your server is quite stable and OOM works FOR you, not against you.
1851 [13:26:46] <koollman> yeah. but I don't trust most programs to know what they are doing :)
1852 [13:26:59] <blackflow> noobs confusing lack of knowledge of how to do that, with "this is <feces> I hates it, filthy hobbitses!"
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1855 [13:27:45] <blackflow> koollman: thus systemd and its great ability to expose kernel features through unit files. confinement, cgroups, seccomp, resource limits, and you control the situation.
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1869 [13:35:52] <koollman> blackflow: nah :)
1870 [13:36:32] <koollman> blackflow: maybe you could make this point for s6 without sarcasm. because the source code is minimalistic and readable, and the separation of concern is very strong :)
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1880 [13:41:18] <blackflow> koollman: s6 could be the bestest thing since sliced bread but I'm not gonna rip out the most critical component. systemd was opted as the default init. I'll make the most use of it as possible. but yes I agree, technically, its implementation is borderline criminal
1881 [13:41:46] <koollman> I totally would. and will.
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1884 [13:42:26] <blackflow> koollman: which is good. more users = more bug reports, leading to it becoming a viable, usable alternative one day
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1944 [14:25:10] <StucKman> I have a couple of md raid1 devices who report a missing disk: replaced-url
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1957 [14:36:53] <ChrisH> StucKman: replace disk with partition in your sentence. There is not a disk sdn missing but partitions (guessed names) sdn1 and sdn3. sdn3 has updated time in Janauart, looks like the mirror is offline for a longer time.
1958 [14:37:12] <StucKman> ChrisH: yes, sorry
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1960 [14:37:35] <StucKman> hmm, I have an idea why
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1962 [14:37:50] <StucKman> I think I just confused that one part thinks the array is fine
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1966 [14:38:14] <ChrisH> reattach them and you should be done.
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1998 [15:00:13] <essdeeay> Is there a way of finding empty dirs whilst excluding dot files? What I have at the moment is: "find . -type d -empty -mtime +93" but of course the empty parameter never works because of the dot files.
1999 [15:00:30] <greycat> You'll have to script it yourself.
2000 [15:00:55] <greycat> There isn't a find builtin primitive for "empty except for dot files", and hell, even -empty is a GNUism.
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2007 [15:02:46] <ber532k> I'm having trouble getting a wifi connection with rtl8192cu driver for realtek (on stretch). Running journalctl reveals I always get disconnected just after the connection has been established. Any help would be appreciated.
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2014 [15:05:57] <essdeeay> greycat, Thanks - I'll do that ;)
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2016 [15:06:18] <StucKman> ChrisH: yes, thanks
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2018 [15:07:18] <manticorpus> Hi, does the execution of the script : replaced-url
2019 [15:07:25] <StucKman> essdeeay: find . -type d -nlink 2 or somethong on those lines?
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2022 [15:08:07] <greycat> StucKman: that won't tell him whether Dir contains "foo" or ".foo" and he wants to act differently in those two cases.
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2024 [15:08:22] <manticorpus> ber532k: I have test this device one time, and give up. I never found any way to get a working situation (was with a old kernel like 3.14)
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2028 [15:09:36] <ber532k> manticorpus: Discouraging, but thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll just look for a dongle then or something.
2029 [15:10:13] <manticorpus> ber532k: Sorry, but keep in mind I am really not an expert
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2033 [15:11:47] <AlexNagy> so recently I tried updating my tower from Windows 10 to Debian 9. It went swimmingly aside from the Linux driver for my ATI FirePro v5900 (it wouldn't load because the X server was too new, go figure). The default drivers for the card are horrible and so I downgraded to Windows. If I buy a pair of Quadro 5000s (the max my tower can support in its default configuration; linux driver here: replaced-url
2034 [15:11:47] <AlexNagy> ) will I have similar issues?
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2037 [15:12:03] <ber532k> manticorpus: sure, maybe an expert will show up who knows how to solve this ;) (frankly, I was surprised anyone even had experience with the same driver)
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2042 [15:17:51] <ChrisH> AlexNagy: _I would try to stay away from ati-nvidia
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2045 [15:18:29] <ChrisH> AlexNagy: _I_ would try to stay away from ati-nvidia modules, check replaced-url
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2047 [15:20:45] <DonK_KijotE> Hi
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2050 [15:21:54] <AlexNagy> ChrisH, I'll give that a look and maybe try on a spare drive instead of reinstalling my system at the start (the default driver really is crap, like, really really really bad).
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2067 [15:26:42] <ssarah> hi, im trying to switch from ubuntu to debian, is there the equivalent of the "aditional drivers" thing for debian?
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2070 [15:26:55] <ssarah> specifically im trying to install the nvidia and ati drivers
2071 [15:27:04] <petn-randall> ssarah: What does the "additional drivers" thing do?
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2074 [15:27:48] <petn-randall> ssarah: There is next to "main" a "contrib" and "non-free" section. The "non-free" section usually carries firmware needed for wifi cards, and also any non-free nvidia drivers.
2075 [15:28:14] <ZEROF> ssarah: replaced-url
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2077 [15:28:19] <ZEROF> This will work for you
2078 [15:28:21] <ssarah> petn-randall, that's in synaptic ?
2079 [15:28:37] <ZEROF> For nvidia
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2081 [15:28:42] <ssarah> ZEROF, sounds good
2082 [15:28:43] <ssarah> :)
2083 [15:28:49] <ssarah> for ati it's ati-driver ?
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2086 [15:30:03] <ZEROF> ssarah: not really
2087 [15:30:40] <ZEROF> apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree libgl1-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-video-ati
2088 [15:30:47] <ZEROF> Will do the trick
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2090 [15:30:55] <petn-randall> !ati
2091 [15:30:55] <dpkg> Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics processing units are supported using the open source "radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about <radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver, ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from amd.com (i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian, please go to #ati on irc.freenode.net.
2092 [15:30:56] <ZEROF> But you can't use both in same time
2093 [15:31:16] <ZEROF> :)
2094 [15:31:31] <ZEROF> If you want to install ati, remove nvidia
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2098 [15:31:56] <ssarah> thank you very much guys
2099 [15:32:10] <ssarah> this is to play games
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2134 [15:46:08] <AlexNagy> Is there any software available on Debian that y'all know of for use in an academic environment (such as browser lock-down to prevent cheating)?
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2143 [15:48:59] <AlexNagy> I'm studying for various IT certs in a trade school, and my class is responsible for all the IT (with some exceptions) on campus and one of my projects is to find a way to repurpose aging hardware that won't be supported under Windows 10. I chose Debian over Ubuntu because of it's stability.
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2145 [15:49:42] <AlexNagy> (and also because I'm somewhat familiar with it, having it used it long-term back many moons ago)
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2155 [15:54:10] <rant> most people who are savvy arent going to use some lockdown browser, they'd just use a firewall
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2158 [15:54:43] <rant> trying to use an application level approach to this issue is far more cumbersome than a network level approach
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2160 [15:55:09] <AlexNagy> I agree, but for some proctored tests, it's not an issue of what the most savvy solution is.
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2166 [15:57:59] <AlexNagy> (and for some proctored exams, like those offered by CompTIA (for which my school is an accredited Pearson-Vue testing center and authorized academy partner), I don't think there is *any* Linux solution.)
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2170 [15:59:35] <xand> AlexNagy: if you want to restrict website access then you can require use of a proxy that only allows certain URLs/domains
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2173 [15:59:53] <rant> AlexNagy: replaced-url
2174 [15:59:54] <r3m1> hello
2175 [16:00:29] <AlexNagy> Thank you xand and rant (: Much appreciated, I will explore those avenues.
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2182 [16:02:47] <r3m1> I'm working with a Pi and raspbian... but didnt get much help with a routing question so I 'll give it a go here. I have a mobile modem connected to the pi and I am able to establish a ppp connexion and use this modem for internet. However I would like to be able to switch automatically to LAN if an ethernet cable is plugged in. I have seen that when I plug a network cable, DHCP gives my eth0 an IP and gateway. Also, a new default route is added and shows up
2183 [16:02:47] <r3m1> in route -n
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2185 [16:03:36] <r3m1> I want to know which process is responsible of adding the default route and possibly control this process to add the default route with an external script and not "automatically"
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2188 [16:04:32] <black_13> if you build and package from source of gstreamer would that allow you to have the dbg information and to step into the source
2189 [16:04:44] <greycat> It could be network-manager, or an allow-hotplug line in /e/n/i, or a systemd thing.
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2191 [16:04:55] <greycat> Those are the 3 ways to configure network interfaces in Debian.
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2193 [16:05:08] <greycat> Ask #raspbian for more details because we don't know how Raspbian does it.
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2198 [16:08:14] <r3m1> greycat thanks.
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2225 [16:24:01] <mason> greycat: FWIW, they appear to use ifupdown.
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2231 [16:25:17] <greycat> then there's probably an allow-hotplug eth0 line in /etc/network/interfaces
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2243 [16:31:31] <martian67|> Hello, I have a bare minimum hostapd config replaced-url
2244 [16:31:40] <martian67|> its not showing up for any wifi clients
2245 [16:32:00] <martian67|> i have installed firmware-atheros and rebooted
2246 [16:32:24] <martian67|> hostapd reports no errors when run manually, but i still see nothing
2247 [16:32:27] <martian67|> any clues here?
2248 [16:32:42] <martian67|> this card works fine in other oses
2249 [16:32:51] <martian67|> so its for 100% sure not a hardware issue
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2262 [16:38:29] *** Quits: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip ) (Quit: jolt)
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2264 [16:39:45] *** Joins: sheen (~sheen@replaced-ip )
2265 [16:40:10] <martian67|> some -d output for hostapd replaced-url
2266 [16:40:11] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2267 [16:40:22] <martian67|> dosent seem to be any issues here
2268 [16:40:35] <martian67|> but multiple other clients do not see it
2269 [16:40:40] <sheen> Hi there, I have issues restoring VG with clonezilla, anyone experienced with this ?
2270 [16:40:48] <martian67|> nor are any wifi APs showing up
2271 [16:41:14] <martian67|> *nor are any wifi frames showing up when looking with airodump-ng on other devices
2272 [16:41:31] *** Quits: DonK_KijotE (~donk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: see u later alligator.)
2273 [16:41:52] <martian67|> this is on debian 9, latest updates
2274 [16:42:05] *** Joins: lgbtperson (~gaytranny@replaced-ip )
2275 [16:42:19] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like anus sex.
2276 [16:42:20] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like anus sex.
2277 [16:42:21] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like anus sex.
2278 [16:42:38] *** Joins: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip )
2279 [16:42:38] *** Quits: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2280 [16:42:47] <lgbtperson> !ops im a homo trans
2281 [16:42:47] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: lgbtperson complains about a problem (see above)
2282 [16:42:48] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip ) (Quit: format_c)
2283 [16:43:01] <lgbtperson> i like doing it in the bum hole
2284 [16:43:45] *** Parts: broesel (~broesel@replaced-ip ) ()
2285 [16:43:59] *** Quits: errorn04 (~errorn04@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2286 [16:44:20] *** Quits: zeSoup (~jsc@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2287 [16:44:24] <Tenkawa> martian67|: do you have a machine that can run tcpdump?
2288 [16:44:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
2289 [16:44:40] *** greycat sets mode: +q *!*@216.189.154.9
2290 [16:44:46] <martian67|> Tenkawa, the card dosent emit any wifi packets at all
2291 [16:44:47] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
2292 [16:44:55] <Tenkawa> does it see the attempts ?
2293 [16:44:55] <martian67|> but yes
2294 [16:44:57] <Tenkawa> oh
2295 [16:45:08] <Tenkawa> odd
2296 [16:45:08] <martian67|> im looking on another machine with airodump-ng
2297 [16:45:13] <martian67|> yeah it is
2298 [16:45:19] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2299 [16:45:41] <martian67|> like i said its for sure not a hardware issue
2300 [16:45:44] <Tenkawa> oh
2301 [16:45:47] *** Joins: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip )
2302 [16:45:49] <Tenkawa> check rfkill
2303 [16:45:53] <martian67|> because it works fine on other oses
2304 [16:45:57] <martian67|> oh right, rfkill stupid crap
2305 [16:46:38] <martian67|> Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no
2306 [16:46:41] <martian67|> nope
2307 [16:46:45] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
2308 [16:46:45] <Tenkawa> darn
2309 [16:46:57] <mason> greycat: pm?
2310 [16:47:10] <Tenkawa> couldnt get that lucky eh?
2311 [16:47:16] <martian67|> yeah :(
2312 [16:47:23] *** Joins: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip )
2313 [16:47:24] <martian67|> how do i tell if firmware actually loaded properly
2314 [16:47:30] <phazon> lsmod
2315 [16:47:32] <greycat> dmesg should show it being loaded
2316 [16:47:37] <Tenkawa> dmesg | grep firmware
2317 [16:48:09] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
2318 [16:48:32] <martian67|> well it seems to at least be operational
2319 [16:48:39] <martian67|> let me try connecting with it as a client
2320 [16:48:41] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2321 [16:48:42] *** Quits: rypervenche (~rypervenc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: brb)
2322 [16:48:46] <Tenkawa> ok
2323 [16:48:50] *** Quits: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2324 [16:49:29] <Tenkawa> ddid you set your crda too?
2325 [16:49:36] *** Quits: anglophilic (~seekr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Goodbye, cruel world.)
2326 [16:49:56] <Tenkawa> not that i think that is required
2327 [16:50:00] *** Joins: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip )
2328 [16:50:22] <martian67|> i had it set before, didnt make any difference
2329 [16:50:27] <Tenkawa> ok
2330 [16:50:29] <martian67|> was just trying with a minimal config
2331 [16:50:33] <Tenkawa> nod
2332 [16:50:36] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ()
2333 [16:50:38] *** Quits: lgbtperson (~gaytranny@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
2334 [16:50:40] <martian67|> dosent seem to be working as a client either...
2335 [16:50:55] *** Joins: sk_tandt__ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip )
2336 [16:51:21] *** Quits: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2337 [16:51:41] *** Joins: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip )
2338 [16:51:56] <martian67|> seems i can at least scan WTF
2339 [16:52:07] *** Quits: martastain (~martastai@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2340 [16:52:09] *** Quits: m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@replaced-ip ) (Quit: go drink with my bitches!)
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2360 [17:01:35] *** Joins: debianero (~debianero@replaced-ip )
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2362 [17:01:41] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2367 [17:04:15] *** Quits: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2368 [17:04:34] *** Quits: teclo- (42@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2369 [17:04:37] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2370 [17:04:48] *** Joins: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip )
2371 [17:05:40] <martian67|> seems like for whatever reason the card cant send packets under debian..
2372 [17:05:50] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
2373 [17:06:02] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
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2375 [17:06:51] <Tenkawa> what kind of card is this?
2376 [17:07:00] <petn-randall> martian67|: How are you testing the client connection?
2377 [17:07:10] <martian67|> Atheros AR9282
2378 [17:07:30] <martian67|> petn-randall, attempting to associate with the iw command, again, no packets are generated as verified from another machine
2379 [17:08:23] <petn-randall> `iw` is not suitable to test client authentication, unless you know how to do the handshakes via CLI. I'd rather use network-manager to do this.
2380 [17:08:34] <martian67|> there is no encryption
2381 [17:08:55] <martian67|> but thats besides the point, there are literally no wifi packets being generated when i tell iw to associate
2382 [17:09:01] <martian67|> network manager isnt going to fix that
2383 [17:09:05] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2384 [17:09:43] <petn-randall> You'd be surprised ...
2385 [17:09:52] <Tenkawa> martian67|: run this test for me on the machine you are trying to test if you dont mind
2386 [17:10:00] <martian67|> ok
2387 [17:10:06] <Tenkawa> ifconfig interface up
2388 [17:10:19] <martian67|> i have ip but yes
2389 [17:10:20] <Tenkawa> tcpdump -n -i interface
2390 [17:10:25] <Tenkawa> no
2391 [17:10:27] <Tenkawa> ifconfig
2392 [17:10:29] <Tenkawa> not ip
2393 [17:10:39] <Tenkawa> it had it has to be ifconfig
2394 [17:10:45] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip )
2395 [17:10:50] <martian67|> why is ip link set wlp5s0 up not ok?
2396 [17:10:59] <Tenkawa> if you dont have it installed install the utility
2397 [17:11:00] *** Joins: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip )
2398 [17:11:10] <martian67|> trying to keep gigabytes of crap off of this router, hence me not wanting network manager
2399 [17:11:18] <jelly> judd: file bin/ifconfig
2400 [17:11:22] <judd> Search for bin/ifconfig in stretch/amd64: net-tools: sbin/ifconfig
2401 [17:11:26] *** Joins: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip )
2402 [17:11:33] <jelly> net-tools isn't gigabytes
2403 [17:11:37] <Tenkawa> ifconfig is like kb
2404 [17:11:52] <Tenkawa> and VERY useful
2405 [17:11:58] *** Quits: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2406 [17:12:06] <martian67|> ip can do everything it can, but whatever, installing it
2407 [17:12:10] <jelly> (though I wonder the same thing as martian67| wrt ip link set dev ... up)
2408 [17:12:23] <jelly> martian67|: it uses slightly different kernel APIs
2409 [17:12:31] *** Joins: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip )
2410 [17:12:48] <Tenkawa> jelly: ip changed the syntax for us old school geeks
2411 [17:12:58] *** Quits: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2412 [17:13:00] <jelly> Tenkawa: but we know the new syntax
2413 [17:13:01] <martian67|> so im running tcpdump what do you want to know Tenkawa this isnt gonna be too useful if it isnt associated :)
2414 [17:13:05] <Tenkawa> yaya
2415 [17:13:07] <Tenkawa> heehee
2416 [17:13:09] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip )
2417 [17:13:37] *** Quits: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2418 [17:13:39] <Tenkawa> martian67|: now... try to send something through the int
2419 [17:13:50] <Tenkawa> with it being forced up
2420 [17:13:54] <martian67|> how, its not associated...
2421 [17:13:54] <Tenkawa> it shouldnt matter
2422 [17:13:55] *** Joins: fueqw (~gruqds@replaced-ip )
2423 [17:14:03] <Tenkawa> it will see any attempts
2424 [17:14:24] <Tenkawa> you can attempt a manual scan
2425 [17:14:30] <Tenkawa> with iw scan
2426 [17:14:38] *** Quits: abff (~abff@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2427 [17:14:53] <Tenkawa> iw scanning or whatever that command is
2428 [17:14:58] <Tenkawa> iwlist
2429 [17:15:08] <Tenkawa> iwlist dev scanning
2430 [17:15:12] <Tenkawa> or something
2431 [17:15:27] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2432 [17:15:53] *** Quits: ZEROF (58d5fb12@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2433 [17:16:23] <martian67|> no packets
2434 [17:16:31] <martian67|> it does scan however, i see APs
2435 [17:16:48] <martian67|> i dont think tcpdump is capable of seeing 802.11 management frame stuff
2436 [17:16:59] *** Quits: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2437 [17:17:01] <Tenkawa> intrso the nic does at least work
2438 [17:17:04] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip )
2439 [17:17:05] <Tenkawa> er s
2440 [17:17:07] *** Quits: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2441 [17:17:07] <Tenkawa> so
2442 [17:17:14] <martian67|> well it can receive packets..
2443 [17:17:18] <Tenkawa> yes
2444 [17:17:22] <martian67|> seems to have problems generating them somehow
2445 [17:17:25] <Tenkawa> the transmit might be blown
2446 [17:17:29] <jelly> martian67|: where's your dmesg?
2447 [17:18:50] <jelly> is the antenna connected? :-)
2448 [17:18:56] <martian67|> yes
2449 [17:19:01] <martian67|> as i said it works on other OSes
2450 [17:19:05] <martian67|> as both client and AP
2451 [17:19:06] <martian67|> replaced-url
2452 [17:19:57] *** Quits: sk_tandt__ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2453 [17:20:07] *** Quits: dowwie (~dowwie@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2454 [17:20:16] *** Quits: sebatron (a5e1514a@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2455 [17:20:23] *** Quits: kyych (~kyych@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2456 [17:20:56] <martian67|> seems like it has managed to associate odd
2457 [17:21:05] <martian67|> but i attempted to run dhclient, and nothing
2458 [17:21:16] <Tenkawa> you have a bridge setup
2459 [17:21:25] <Tenkawa> that changes matters
2460 [17:21:33] <martian67|> yes the wifi card is not bridged however
2461 [17:21:35] <martian67|> at least not yet
2462 [17:21:40] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
2463 [17:21:43] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2464 [17:22:04] <Tenkawa> well if you look at the dmesg its grabbing the card
2465 [17:22:08] <martian67|> it was on boot, but its removed now
2466 [17:22:10] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2467 [17:22:40] <martian67|> ill try rebooting without adding it at all
2468 [17:22:47] <Tenkawa> ok
2469 [17:22:48] <jelly> hmph, dmesg output looks pretty much the same as on my tp-link archer c5 router with the same card for 2.4GHz
2470 [17:22:54] <martian67|> none of this should effect operation as an AP
2471 [17:22:56] <martian67|> fwiw
2472 [17:23:15] *** Joins: rizzo (~RizzoTheR@replaced-ip )
2473 [17:23:16] <martian67|> yes its very odd
2474 [17:23:17] *** Quits: vmrod25 (~vrodri3@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2475 [17:23:19] *** Joins: errorn04 (~errorn04@replaced-ip )
2476 [17:23:28] *** Joins: paulo_ (~paulo@replaced-ip )
2477 [17:23:51] *** paulo_ is now known as Guest55898
2478 [17:23:52] <jelly> martian67|: eh... you could try installing 4.19 kernel from stretch-backports, see if it does anything different
2479 [17:23:55] *** Joins: kyych (~kyych@replaced-ip )
2480 [17:24:44] <jelly> after checking no-bridge setup
2481 [17:24:53] <martian67|> no difference
2482 [17:25:01] *** Joins: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip )
2483 [17:25:01] <martian67|> ok how do i do that jelly
2484 [17:25:13] *** Quits: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2485 [17:25:57] *** Quits: fueqw (~gruqds@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2486 [17:26:07] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2487 [17:26:12] * Tenkawa just hopes to get up to 5.0 with his new Nvidia setup without too much pain
2488 [17:26:27] *** Joins: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip )
2489 [17:26:49] *** Joins: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip )
2490 [17:27:00] <Tenkawa> the test kernel compiled <8 minutes but wouldnt run x..
2491 [17:27:13] <greycat> 'But I'd like to point out (yet again) that we don't do feature-based releases, and that "5.0" doesn't mean anything more than that the 4.x numbers started getting big enough that I ran out of fingers and toes.'
2492 [17:27:33] <martian67|> version numbers are arbitrary human constructs
2493 [17:27:36] <greycat> replaced-url
2494 [17:27:38] <Tenkawa> greycat: I like running developmenmt code
2495 [17:27:39] <martian67|> news at 11
2496 [17:27:53] <Tenkawa> greycat: dont preach to me
2497 [17:28:00] *** Quits: Guest55898 (~paulo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2498 [17:28:01] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip )
2499 [17:28:04] <martian67|> debates about semantic definitions are the worst thing on the internet
2500 [17:28:32] <Tenkawa> I was just stating todays task
2501 [17:28:37] *** Quits: x0n2 (~x0nstaubs@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2502 [17:28:43] <martian67|> wasnt a reply to you
2503 [17:28:49] *** Joins: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
2504 [17:28:57] <Tenkawa> martian67|: no.. I know
2505 [17:28:59] *** Joins: gohy (~gohy@replaced-ip )
2506 [17:29:03] *** Joins: x0n2 (~x0nstaubs@replaced-ip )
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2508 [17:30:21] *** Quits: x0n2 (~x0nstaubs@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2509 [17:30:39] *** Quits: joshbright (~joshbrigh@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2512 [17:32:02] *** Quits: x0n (~x0n@replaced-ip ) (Quit: bye.)
2513 [17:32:16] *** Quits: x0n2 (~x0nstaubs@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2514 [17:32:25] <Tenkawa> martian67|: out of odd curiosity do you have any open board slots to move that card to?
2515 [17:32:32] <martian67|> no
2516 [17:32:38] *** Joins: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip )
2517 [17:32:43] *** Joins: x0n (~x0nstaubs@replaced-ip )
2518 [17:32:50] <Tenkawa> shouldnt matter but I'm reaching
2519 [17:32:55] *** Joins: sic_var (~sic_var@replaced-ip )
2520 [17:33:20] <martian67|> what is the difference between signed and unsigned kernel images
2521 [17:33:48] *** Quits: msimpson (~msimpson@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2522 [17:33:52] <martian67|> linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64-unsigned - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs
2523 [17:33:52] <martian67|> linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs (signed)
2524 [17:33:59] <Tenkawa> not sure what the "full" diiference is
2525 [17:34:21] <Tenkawa> btw... what do you get (pastebin it) if you ifconfig -a
2526 [17:34:21] <towo`> you cant boot such unsignte kernel with securebott enabled
2527 [17:34:23] <petn-randall> martian67|: signed kernel can be used with secure boot.
2528 [17:34:23] *** Joins: Error451_ (~Error451@replaced-ip )
2529 [17:34:23] *** Quits: Error451 (~Error451@replaced-ip ) (Disconnected by services)
2530 [17:34:38] <Tenkawa> towo`: ahhhh
2531 [17:34:49] <Tenkawa> good to know
2532 [17:34:55] <Tenkawa> thats helpfu;
2533 [17:34:56] <petn-randall> martian67|: It also means that you can change it without breaking the signature, though, as it gets signed by Debian's key that is signed by Microsoft.
2534 [17:34:58] <Tenkawa> er helpful
2535 [17:35:01] <petn-randall> *CAN'T
2536 [17:35:04] *** Parts: Error451_ (~Error451@replaced-ip ) ()
2537 [17:35:12] <martian67|> ah that garbage
2538 [17:35:14] *** Quits: kirkland (~kirkland@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2539 [17:35:17] <Tenkawa> indeed
2540 [17:35:19] <martian67|> figured it was something related to that, thanks
2541 [17:35:46] <petn-randall> You can sign your own kernels by adding the key to your UEFI storage, but that's extra steps you might or might not want to do.
2542 [17:36:04] *** Joins: kirkland (~kirkland@replaced-ip )
2543 [17:36:07] <martian67|> its completely irrelivant to me, i use core boot
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2547 [17:38:15] <martian67|> depressing how hard floss people rolled over on that however
2548 [17:38:39] <martian67|> cant wait until microsoft starts revoking keys because you can "compromise" windows with linux
2549 [17:39:04] <Tenkawa> its not compromised...
2550 [17:39:13] <Tenkawa> its a "partnership"
2551 [17:39:16] <Tenkawa> haahaa
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2553 [17:39:51] <petn-randall> You *can* add your own signing keys, so secure boot does actually add some benefit.
2554 [17:40:04] <petn-randall> You can also remove any other keys AFAIK.
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2556 [17:40:25] <Tenkawa> I mean who wouldve ever thought non-windows code would be runnning in a windows store addon to make it feel like linux
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2558 [17:40:29] <martian67|> argh why does 4.19 require python 3?
2559 [17:40:34] <martian67|> anyway to avoid this
2560 [17:40:44] <jelly> hmm?
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2562 [17:41:12] <martian67|> trying to upgrade to the backported 4.19 wants to install python 3
2563 [17:41:20] <Tenkawa> jelly: was that for martian67| or me?
2564 [17:41:33] <jelly> martian67|: show the complete output.
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2567 [17:42:15] <jelly> martian67|: I suspect Recommends: apparmor
2568 [17:42:36] <martian67|> sigh, bloating this image by another 50% horay
2569 [17:43:12] <jelly> just do aptitude install linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 apparmor_
2570 [17:43:32] <jelly> or use an option to avoid installing Recommends this one time
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2572 [17:43:58] <greycat> Is that _ correct, or should it be - ?
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2574 [17:44:23] <jelly> _ is want-to-purge, - is want-to-remove iirc
2575 [17:44:42] <greycat> So intuitive. :rolleyes:
2576 [17:44:46] <jelly> obviously _ is lower than -
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2578 [17:44:55] <Tenkawa> isnt it though?
2579 [17:45:01] <Tenkawa> ugh
2580 [17:45:18] <jelly> yes it's very intuitive if you're unfortunate enough to remember dselect
2581 [17:45:20] <greycat> Especially since - is actually a valid character in a package name.
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2583 [17:45:47] <Tenkawa> yeah and if you mistype it, very bad things could happen
2584 [17:45:48] <jelly> (I don't know if - as suffix works at all)
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2586 [17:46:33] <greycat> replaced-url
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2589 [17:47:27] <greycat> setpriv_ doesn't work with apt-get but does work with aptitude
2590 [17:48:04] <jelly> so... aptitude wins?
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2594 [17:48:52] <greycat> It has more features. Never questioned that.
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2615 [17:54:56] <jelly> /usr/bin/apt also only does install foo- but not install foo_
2616 [17:55:24] <jelly> clearly someone needs to upload provingapoint-_1.0_all.deb
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2620 [17:58:33] <martian67|> jelly, new kernel makes no difference...
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2629 [18:02:56] <bipul> How to install debian server silently on hypervisor?
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2634 [18:06:00] <martian67|> bipul, if you are using libvirt on hypervisor check out virt-install and preseeding
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2643 [18:07:19] <bipul> martian67|, I am using Virtualbox headless installation.
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2645 [18:08:02] <newbiePI> howdy folks
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2655 [18:13:26] <newbiePI> I am running raspbain on a raspberry pi 3. I was able to watch movies with no issue using vlc. then after reboot now I get an error saying can not play mp4. I get sound but no video now?
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2657 [18:13:57] <newbiePI> I ended up just rewriting my os to the sd card again. any idea's why it would have failed?
2658 [18:14:13] <Tenkawa> any more detail please.. logs?
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2660 [18:14:42] <Tenkawa> although if you rewrote they are gone already right?
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2663 [18:17:02] <Tenkawa> brb.. I need a reboot to finish an install
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2674 [18:25:16] <newbiePI> yup, sorry no logs. I am new to linux so it was just easier for me to redo the sd card and update the os again.
2675 [18:25:39] <newbiePI> if it happens again I will come here 1st before just reinstalling the os lol
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2685 [18:27:11] <CrazyTux> hello..
2686 [18:27:44] <CrazyTux> does debian make use of the contributions made by other debian based distros like mx linux and sparky?
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2689 [18:29:18] <shtrb> shouldn't apt-get update against deb.debian.org be redirected to cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org ?
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2691 [18:30:10] <greycat> !deb.debian.org
2692 [18:30:11] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See replaced-url
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2696 [18:31:02] <shtrb> Thank you greycat, but that doesn't answer my question (apt not mentioning I had been redirect to fastly as it's mentioned in deb.debian.org)
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2699 [18:32:15] <greycat> So your REAL question is "Why doesn't apt-get show me every single DNS lookup being performed?"
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2701 [18:33:03] <FinalX> nobody should ever make it a habit of putting a CDN's own name in the hostname used
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2704 [18:33:30] <FinalX> keep everything to generic, reusable names, so you can point it to some other backend/provider later instead without having to reconfigure clients
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2706 [18:33:45] <shtrb> I was under the impression that apt should say get:2 replaced-url
2707 [18:33:47] <FinalX> and redirects and DNS are also not related
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2709 [18:34:38] <greycat> apt-get (et al.) do not, as a general rule, tell you to precisely which mirror you have been redirected
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2711 [18:35:02] <shtrb> Thanks, I was wrong
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2739 [18:50:36] <jelly> martian67|: it was worth a try I guess
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2862 [20:08:45] <WoC> just did a fresh install 9.8, OpenCL broken (amd) and when i login to X, the screen flips 90 degree CCW
2863 [20:08:51] <WoC> suggestions?
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2870 [20:12:22] <jhutchins_wk> Hey, that's a fun new one.
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2911 [20:46:03] <armu> PAYING BTC $100 for bind setup to host multiple domain names and an easy way to create a A name for each hosted domain name and point to a ip
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2914 [20:50:01] <shtrb> you are paying for a tldr page ?
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2916 [20:50:21] <shtrb> *tldp
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2939 [21:16:59] <agio> hi, do the package maintainers push new, updated packages containing security fixes to the regular release archive - as well as the security archive?
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2941 [21:17:53] <agio> in other words, once a package is security fixed, do the maintainers remove all instances of the old, vulnerable packages?
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2943 [21:18:25] <greycat> Once a release has been... released... made stable... there are no updates to it by the regular maintainers. Security updates are created by the security team, and occasionally a point release will be issues, containing the security updates and a few other carefully chosen bug fixes.
2944 [21:19:18] <greycat> No, the package in the stable release is not REMOVED. You as a user are expected to have sources.list entries for both the security repository as well as the regular stable repository.
2945 [21:19:30] <greycat> Apt-get will use the newer version which will be the one in the security repository.
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2958 [21:26:08] <agio> got it. thanks for clarification
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2994 [21:48:54] <Unplesantry> debconf: (TERM is not set, so the dialog frontend is not usable.)
2995 [21:48:56] <Unplesantry> wtf is this?
2996 [21:49:31] <Sleaker> Unplesantry: you're trying to run dpkg/apt commands using scripts?
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2998 [21:49:55] <greycat> Or from cron, perhaps.
2999 [21:50:07] <Sleaker> that's a script :P
3000 [21:50:25] <Unplesantry> docker lol
3001 [21:50:32] <greycat> Well, it's the execution environment here that matters, not whether it's a script. A script being run in a terminal would work.
3002 [21:50:37] <Sleaker> sure
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3004 [21:51:16] <Unplesantry> this fixes it seems like
3005 [21:51:16] <Sleaker> Unplesantry: set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive before doing anything with dpkg/apt in the docker container
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3007 [21:51:19] <Unplesantry> RUN echo 'debconf debconf/frontend select Noninteractive' | debconf-set-selections
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3040 [22:08:18] <DonK_KijotE> Hi
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3042 [22:09:55] <agio> I'm trying to show/print the original release package for policykit, (the vulnerable one) left in the stretch release archive. but `apt-cache policy policykit1' is only showing the new security-fixed package. how can I show/print all the "policykit-1" packages?
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3047 [22:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
3048 [22:14:15] <Sleaker> agio: apt-cache only shows information about packages that are cached locally.
3049 [22:14:45] <Sleaker> if you've already updated and apt update hasn't been run against a repo with the vulnerable one it won't show in apt-cache
3050 [22:15:01] <greycat> What version is the "vulnerable one"?
3051 [22:15:12] <agio> that's what I'm trying to find out
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3053 [22:15:24] <agio> all I can see is the fixed one
3054 [22:15:41] <agio> (when running apt-cache policy policykit-1)
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3056 [22:15:43] <Sleaker> agio: apt-cache is not the tool you're looking for then
3057 [22:15:59] <greycat> that completely didn't answer my question :(
3058 [22:16:11] *** Quits: sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3059 [22:16:26] <agio> what did I miss?
3060 [22:16:45] <greycat> You claim there's a "vulnerable version". I'm wondering what version that is.
3061 [22:16:45] <Sleaker> what version is the vulnerable version.
3062 [22:16:54] *** Quits: Posterdati (~Posterdat@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3063 [22:16:58] <Sleaker> if you don't know what the vulnerable version is how are you searching for it?
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3065 [22:17:18] <greycat> I'm not seeing policykit on replaced-url
3066 [22:17:52] <greycat> How old is the DSA?
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3068 [22:18:23] <agio> If Im understanding this bug report: replaced-url
3069 [22:18:34] <greycat> Here's one from DECEMBER: replaced-url
3070 [22:18:57] <Sleaker> [06 Dec 2018] DSA-4350 policykit-1 - security update
3071 [22:19:09] *** Quits: gjt343 (~gjt@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3072 [22:19:22] <greycat> Yeah, that's three months ago. No wonder there's no skew between security.d.o and the main repository.
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3074 [22:19:41] <greycat> Point releases have occurred since then. The patched version is already in main.
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3079 [22:21:04] <agio> oh, so once point releases are published, the original package is removed from the release archive?
3080 [22:21:17] *** Joins: gjt343 (~gjt@replaced-ip )
3081 [22:21:40] <agio> or is it just removed from local apt cache ?
3082 [22:22:29] <greycat> What's your REAL question? I am still completely stumped by what you are looking for.
3083 [22:22:37] <Sleaker> agio: it's still in the remote repository
3084 [22:22:44] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3085 [22:22:48] <Sleaker> like I said before though, apt-cache is probably not what you're looking for
3086 [22:23:12] <agio> Im trying to recreate the bug, so I want to install the vulnerable package/s into a container for testing
3087 [22:23:14] <Sleaker> apt-cache lets you poll information about a package from the local cache of apt data. it requires that you've run an apt-get update against a repository.
3088 [22:23:20] <greycat> If you want the old broken version:
3089 [22:23:23] <greycat> !snapshot
3090 [22:23:23] <dpkg> replaced-url
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3092 [22:25:29] <Sleaker> the vulnerable package isn't available on either of the main or security repositories so you'll have to look for a version prior to policykit-1_0.115-3
3093 [22:25:37] <greycat> On snapshot.
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3101 [22:28:51] <Tenkawa> yay
3102 [22:28:55] *** Joins: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3103 [22:28:55] <Tenkawa> much better
3104 [22:31:05] *** Joins: aloo_shu (~atomic@replaced-ip )
3105 [22:31:07] <lpancescu> hi, what happens with CVE-2019-5786? it's a 0-day already exploited in the wild, sid already has the fix, but stretch and testing don't (chrome was updated at the beginning of this week).
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3109 [22:32:00] <agio> thanks greycat, I found it on snapshot.debian.org
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3111 [22:32:07] <greycat> The security team will release a fix as soon as they have one ready, I would tihnk.
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3116 [22:33:12] <greycat> You can check replaced-url
3117 [22:33:18] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3118 [22:33:24] <lpancescu> i saw firefox fixes are usually very quick, usually same day as upstream (same as for most debian packages), but for chromium it usually takes a while
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3121 [22:34:29] <lpancescu> greycat: i did, that's where i saw that sid has had the fix since March 2nd
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3125 [22:36:46] <agio> what is the significance of "deb" in the version name of a package? e.g. 72.0.3626.96-1~deb9u2
3126 [22:37:05] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip )
3127 [22:37:12] <greycat> deb9u2 means it's the second security for debian 9 (stretch) to that package
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3129 [22:37:39] <agio> ok, thanks
3130 [22:37:45] <Sleaker> the 'deb' indicates it's a specific patch version to debian.
3131 [22:37:45] <EdePopede> that's actually a really nice glob > `echo ??(?)?`. took me some time, but it has something.
3132 [22:38:04] <greycat> EdePopede: extglobs are off by default in bash, though -- you have to enable them with shopt -s extglob
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3134 [22:38:37] <Sleaker> agio: as opposed to the package maintainers version.
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3140 [22:39:33] <agio> does extendedglob enable the `^' token in bash? (i.e. match files which _dont_ contain this pattern)
3141 [22:39:46] <greycat> that would be !(foo)
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3143 [22:39:57] <lpancescu> debian normally backports security fixes to the version in stable, looking at e.g. replaced-url
3144 [22:40:00] <greycat> replaced-url
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3149 [22:42:08] <agio> ah, so extendedglob is not necessary
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3152 [22:43:29] <EdePopede> greycat: they're on here, and nothing to see in the start scripts. even in a new terminal, but i also checked the profile files.
3153 [22:43:43] <greycat> Where is "here"?
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3162 [22:46:24] <greycat> They're on by default in ksh, and bash *can* be compiled with them on by default (but is not in Debian 9).
3163 [22:46:51] <greycat> So either you're not using a vanilla Debian 9 bash shell, or you've got shopt -s extglob somewhere in .bashrc or similar and you just haven't spotted it yet.
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3166 [22:47:47] <agio> yes, the negation glob operator !(..) only works with extglob on
3167 [22:48:25] <EdePopede> stretch. and "glob" has only one entry in the files and there it is commented out.
3168 [22:48:47] <agio> why extglob is on by default - Im not sure - I wouldn't set that
3169 [22:48:55] *** Joins: nickgaw (~nick@replaced-ip )
3170 [22:49:23] <nickgaw> Hi, Why can I not login to my system as root using my password with ssh?
3171 [22:49:34] <greycat> Some people in #bash would prefer if it were enabled by default because it doesn't seem to break anything. Chet is very conservative about backward compatibility though.
3172 [22:49:52] <greycat> nickgaw: that's configurable in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3173 [22:50:19] <nickgaw> What do I change?
3174 [22:50:24] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3175 [22:50:26] <greycat> For a long time the default during Debian installation was to set it up to allow Root ssh access. Only recently (jessie or stretch maybe?) it changed to disallow Root by default.
3176 [22:50:30] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
3177 [22:50:49] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3178 [22:50:49] <greycat> PermitRootLogin yes
3179 [22:50:57] *** Joins: Guest93259 (~ju@replaced-ip )
3180 [22:50:59] <nickgaw> why not have a debconf setting for this?
3181 [22:51:11] <greycat> Why not just edit the file and restart ssh?
3182 [22:51:39] <nickgaw> ok but what do I change?
3183 [22:51:46] <greycat> There *was* a question about it during the installation, long ago. It was removed, along with the email configuration, because they wanted the installation to be "easier".
3184 [22:51:54] <greycat> Dude, I told you AND showed you.
3185 [22:52:18] <agio> permitrootlogn and PasswordAuthentication may need to be changed
3186 [22:52:36] <lpancescu> nickgaw: find that line and change WithoutPassword into yes
3187 [22:53:20] <lpancescu> i think password auth is already enabled, just not for root
3188 [22:53:34] <EdePopede> not even in *bash* and profile* anywhere in /etc. at least for root it is off. i'll take it as a riddle.
3189 [22:53:46] <nickgaw> it is set to permit root prohibate password.
3190 [22:53:53] <greycat> EdePopede: you only checked in /etc? not in $HOME?
3191 [22:54:07] <EdePopede> greycat: checked them all of course
3192 [22:54:20] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3193 [22:54:21] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip )
3194 [22:54:23] <EdePopede> i'll create another user later and see
3195 [22:55:04] <nickgaw> should I remove the portion about the password and just set it to yes?
3196 [22:55:04] <greycat> Hmm... you said root. Maybe it's different for root. I just tried "su -" and it seems to be on there.
3197 [22:55:12] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip )
3198 [22:55:26] *** Joins: hiroshi (~hiroshi@replaced-ip )
3199 [22:55:29] <EdePopede> on? here it is off for root, that glob failed.
3200 [22:55:52] <lpancescu> nickgaw: you should disable passwords for everyone, not just root, and use pubkey auth :)
3201 [22:56:15] <EdePopede> greycat: anyway, nevermind. i'll try to hunt it down later.
3202 [22:56:27] <nickgaw> no I want to allow root to login with a password as currently I can not login as root.
3203 [22:56:37] <greycat> "su" -> no extglob. "su -" -> extglob. Hmm.
3204 [22:57:04] * lpancescu sighs
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3208 [22:58:28] <nickgaw> if I set it to allow-password would this allow root to login with a password?
3209 [22:58:31] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
3210 [22:58:48] <greycat> You were TOLD what to do.
3211 [22:58:54] <greycat> 16:52 lpancescu> nickgaw: find that line and change WithoutPassword into yes
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3214 [22:59:37] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The default is "PermitRootLogin prohibit-password". You are expected to log in as a regular user and use su - or sudo for root privileges.
3215 [23:00:10] <greycat> Well, "expected" is a subjective thing.
3216 [23:00:32] <agio> what if the system doesn't have a regular user yet?
3217 [23:00:43] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: It would be worth your effort to read the manpage for sshd_config and get an idea what options are available.
3218 [23:00:44] <greycat> One is created during installation.
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3220 [23:01:04] *** Parts: izh_ (~denis@replaced-ip ) ()
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3222 [23:01:10] <agio> on desktops you mean?
3223 [23:01:20] <greycat> During. Installation.
3224 [23:01:23] <lpancescu> direct login to root via ssh keys also works, as it should
3225 [23:01:45] <greycat> It prompts you for the full name of the initial user account, and then supplies a generated login name, and prompts you for the password. You know. During installation.
3226 [23:02:07] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: You can opt out.
3227 [23:02:12] <lpancescu> you might now have a user at all if you disabled that in the preseed file for debian-installer
3228 [23:02:28] <greycat> Well if you do those things, then you get to fix whatever problem you created for yourself.
3229 [23:02:32] *** Joins: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
3230 [23:02:53] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Exactly
3231 [23:03:01] <nickgaw> the line says in buster permitrootlogin prohibit-password and there is no line about root login with-password but loads of comments about it.
3232 [23:03:14] <lpancescu> greycat: heh, preseed and ansible-ull, athough i suspect nickgaw isn't quite there yet
3233 [23:03:22] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3234 [23:03:32] <lpancescu> ansible-pull^
3235 [23:03:39] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The commented line in the config file shows what the default setting is.
3236 [23:03:49] <nickgaw> yes
3237 [23:04:19] <nickgaw> I wish to change it to allow root with password but the line does not exist to uncomment.
3238 [23:04:51] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: Have a look at th man page.
3239 [23:04:54] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3240 [23:05:08] <nickgaw> for the configuration file?
3241 [23:05:09] <greycat> nickgaw: grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3242 [23:05:24] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The syntax has changed a bit in different releases.
3243 [23:05:29] <lpancescu> nickgaw: there won't be a commented line for each possible setting. just edit the file to the settings you need
3244 [23:05:34] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3245 [23:05:43] <greycat> Who wants to bet he's in the wrong file.
3246 [23:07:07] *** Quits: darkvenon (~darkvenon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3247 [23:07:16] *** Quits: birk0ff (~birq@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3248 [23:07:22] <jhutchins_wk> Since he's clearly not in the man page, I'd say yes.
3249 [23:07:45] <greycat> I'm guessing he's in ssh_config instead of sshd_config.
3250 [23:07:47] <nickgaw> I am in the right file does it matter where I add that option?
3251 [23:08:19] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
3252 [23:08:55] <greycat> Add it where it exists by default on a DEBIAN system. Log in to a DEBIAN system to see one.
3253 [23:09:05] <greycat> I don't know what you're using but it's clearly not a default Debian sshd_config.
3254 [23:09:05] *** Joins: birk0ff (~birq@replaced-ip )
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3256 [23:09:24] <lpancescu> nickgaw: no, it doesn't (although directly after the commented out line is usually a good place)
3257 [23:09:57] *** Quits: laidback_01 (~laidback_@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
3258 [23:09:59] <nickgaw> it is a buster system installed rfreshly and in the installation I chose ssh server during the select and install software.
3259 [23:10:27] <greycat> and what do you see when you PASTE (NOT TYPE) grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3260 [23:10:27] *** Quits: Guest93259 (~ju@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3261 [23:10:45] <nickgaw> As buster is still in testing is it not supported here as something could have been changed from stable to testing?
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3265 [23:11:39] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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3269 [23:12:22] <nickgaw> Chroot-Directory none
3270 [23:12:29] <nickgaw> commented out.
3271 [23:12:33] <greycat> See, you cannot follow directions.
3272 [23:12:40] <greycat> That line does NOT match Root.
3273 [23:13:11] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
3274 [23:13:11] <greycat> You typed "root" (lower case) instead of READING.
3275 [23:13:45] *** Joins: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip )
3276 [23:13:51] *** Quits: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3277 [23:14:09] <greycat> And then instead of PASTING the result here, you typed it out, and made TWO mistakes.
3278 [23:14:14] <nickgaw> with a # and tPermitRootLogin without-password
3279 [23:14:34] <agio> is there any documentation for the PermitRootLogin option? its not in man ssh_config...
3280 [23:14:42] <greycat> man sshd_config
3281 [23:14:58] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip ) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3282 [23:14:59] <nickgaw> I am using epic5 a text based irc client is this not a suggested client for copying and pasting?
3283 [23:15:21] <agio> I dont have man sshd_config
3284 [23:15:48] <nickgaw> man sshd_config exists for me
3285 [23:15:51] *** Quits: foureighttwonine (~foureight@replaced-ip ) (Quit: foureighttwonine)
3286 [23:16:09] <somiaj> agio: do you have the openssh-server installed?
3287 [23:16:11] <lpancescu> agio: then you probably don't have sshd either. you have to install openssh-server
3288 [23:16:13] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3289 [23:16:23] <agio> yes, thats the problem
3290 [23:16:35] <jhutchins_wk> agio: Do you have sshd?
3291 [23:16:56] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3292 [23:17:03] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3293 [23:17:15] <agio> sorry, yeah, I didn't have sshd on the machine I was trying to read man page for!
3294 [23:17:19] *** Joins: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip )
3295 [23:17:57] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3296 [23:18:25] <vvor> agio: replaced-url
3297 [23:18:40] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
3298 [23:18:55] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3299 [23:19:04] <jhutchins_wk> Interesting: dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /etc/ssh/sshd_config
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3302 [23:19:27] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
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3307 [23:21:43] <nickgaw> fixed it the line now reads as PermitRootLogin yes and now I can login with a password. as I am totally blind and use the text console and am using epic5 do you know of a way I can using the keyboard copy and paste text?
3308 [23:22:52] <jhutchins_wk> !info gpm
3309 [23:22:56] *** Joins: Phohle5zz (~Phohle5z@replaced-ip )
3310 [23:22:59] <dpkg> gpm: (General Purpose Mouse interface), section misc, is optional. Version: 1.20.7-5 (sid), Packaged size: 194 kB, Installed size: 484 kB
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3312 [23:23:22] *** Quits: Phohle5z (~Phohle5z@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3313 [23:23:30] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: gpm gives you mouse functions in text consoles.
3314 [23:23:45] <nickgaw> I don't use a mouse can screen be used with the keyboard to copy and paste text?
3315 [23:23:47] <jmcnaught> nickgaw: GNU Screen can copy and paste with just the keyboard
3316 [23:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1529
3317 [23:24:24] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: I'm fairly certain it allows keyboard highlight/copy/paste. (It's been a while since I used it.)
3318 [23:24:34] <jmcnaught> nickgaw: replaced-url
3319 [23:25:13] *** Quits: lpancescu (~laur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
3320 [23:25:20] <nickgaw> so in that case I would not use the virtual consoles but do everything using screen's commands?
3321 [23:25:58] *** Joins: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip )
3322 [23:27:15] *** Joins: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip )
3323 [23:27:24] *** Quits: armu (b999c6f7@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Page closed)
3324 [23:27:50] <jmcnaught> screen can only copy and paste in the screens that it manages, so if you need that feature a lot you might choose to use screen all the time
3325 [23:28:26] *** xcm is now known as Guest43306
3326 [23:28:26] *** Quits: Guest43306 (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
3327 [23:28:37] <nickgaw> I will just start it when I login in .profile with the -q option would that work?
3328 [23:29:07] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3329 [23:29:35] *** Quits: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3330 [23:31:16] <vvor> nickgaw: You probable want to disable root & switch to key-base authentication ASAP.
3331 [23:31:18] *** Quits: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3332 [23:31:51] <nickgaw> I have keys for ssh generated why do you suggest I disable passwords?
3333 [23:31:59] *** Quits: fax (~fax@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3334 [23:32:32] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
3335 [23:33:25] <vvor> Passwords are less secure.
3336 [23:33:56] <vvor> Root login is less secure.
3337 [23:34:27] <nickgaw> I have my keys in .ssh in my home directories but can I just have one key set for the entire system as it is mine rather then copying the keys to each user account?
3338 [23:35:16] *** Joins: elkalamar (elkalamar@replaced-ip )
3339 [23:36:17] <blackflow> nickgaw: I think you can, yes, with the AuthorizedKeysFile directive of sshd_config
3340 [23:36:29] <vvor> If you want all users to use the same key, you can. But you lose security and auditing optioins.
3341 [23:36:51] <nickgaw> good point
3342 [23:36:57] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3343 [23:37:01] <agio> would it be reasonable to enable ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access ssh-agent?
3344 [23:37:01] *** Joins: Tarrasquero (~Tarrasque@replaced-ip )
3345 [23:37:06] <jmcnaught> most people would have a single account they use for logging in, then use su or sudo to change users
3346 [23:37:35] *** Joins: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip )
3347 [23:37:48] <vvor> Yep. And generating a user key is all most the same time as copying the keys...
3348 [23:38:16] <nickgaw> my one issue for disabling passwords is what happens if I lose the private key file as yes both are backed up but are there ways to force my way into my own system should that ever happen?
3349 [23:38:54] <friendofafriend> PAM isn't keyed, log in locally.
3350 [23:39:22] <nickgaw> I mean if I am away from this system as yes I could login locally.
3351 [23:40:20] <vvor> Where will you keep the password then?
3352 [23:40:25] *** Joins: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip )
3353 [23:40:39] *** Joins: Brain (~brain@replaced-ip )
3354 [23:41:18] <vvor> Sourly you can not remember it, because if so it is not a good one anyhow.
3355 [23:42:23] <agio> would it be reasonable to enable ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access ssh-agent?
3356 [23:42:40] <agio> (sorry for bump)
3357 [23:43:34] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3358 [23:45:23] <vvor> What is the end goal? What are you relay trying to achieve?
3359 [23:46:20] <agio> I need to do git push/pulling on a remote server
3360 [23:47:15] <agio> so git/ssh process on the server will connect to github
3361 [23:47:23] <agio> and it needs to authenticate
3362 [23:47:38] <ksk> use a seperate keypair, which only lives on this server, and is only used to push to git(hub)
3363 [23:48:23] <vvor> Yep without passphrase, but a restricted user.
3364 [23:48:25] <agio> won't that be less secure
3365 [23:48:26] <agio> ?
3366 [23:48:59] <ksk> if you use a password, then no?
3367 [23:49:46] <jmcnaught> agio: there's an alternative to agent forwarding discussed here that I've used: replaced-url
3368 [23:50:04] <ksk> also depends on how you define that, and how your overall setup looks like.
3369 [23:50:06] <agio> right, but if the server is compromised, typing the password on the system is vulnerable
3370 [23:50:22] <ksk> you just type a password for a sshkey
3371 [23:50:47] <agio> right, a password which can be sniffed on a compromised server
3372 [23:50:52] <ksk> if its "dedicated git key via ssh-agent) vs something else It does not really matter
3373 [23:51:09] <vvor> replaced-url
3374 [23:51:20] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3375 [23:52:09] <agio> yes, agreed.
3376 [23:52:23] <vvor> replaced-url
3377 [23:52:38] <ksk> if your server where you develop is compromised, it does not really matter if you use agent forwarding, or have the key you would have forwrded on disk (+type in password)
3378 [23:53:15] <ksk> maybe I would go for agent-forwarding, but always make sure you forward only the key needed for git (and dont use it for anythign else)
3379 [23:54:11] <vvor> agio: Do not reinvent the wheel...
3380 [23:54:38] <ksk> you can of course also do git magic? like have a repo live a $remote-server, pull the changes back to your client via git, push from client to github ;)
3381 [23:54:52] <agio> yes, I thought of that
3382 [23:54:53] *** Quits: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3383 [23:54:57] <agio> that is safe
3384 [23:54:58] *** Quits: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3385 [23:55:09] <agio> but awkward workflow
3386 [23:55:13] <ksk> depends on what you define as safe.
3387 [23:55:39] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3388 [23:55:40] <ksk> this would give only you control to push to git compared to the other methods.
3389 [23:56:07] *** Quits: argusbr (~donw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3390 [23:56:20] <ksk> on the other hand, why login into an untrusted server and develop there in the first place?
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3394 [23:56:26] <agio> right ,so you are saying to mint a set of ssh keys which have restricted access (can only access git repo's)
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3397 [23:57:45] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: To answer your earlier question, ssh wouldn't be very secure if you could get around required key-based authentication. It's probably possible to crack, but certainly not eassy.
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