People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:15] <BCMM> technically i think /etc/os-release is more likely to be present
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2 [00:00:54] <Epx998> The .deb and .rpm's are built on a system that has lsb_release
3 [00:01:05] <BCMM> (since it's part of base-files, whereas lsb-release is basically optional)
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14 [00:11:35] <oneforall2> grub when you do a kernel upgrade is there maybe some setting it has that auto reboots and you don't have to
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16 [00:13:40] <jcb2016> hi all. trying to register on the forums. i get this now. "The field "antispam1" must be compeleted. i don't see a line for antispam1. any ideas?
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19 [00:16:22] <OerHeks> jcb2016, maybe an ad-blocker issue?
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23 [00:17:36] <jcb2016> OerHeks: i don't have any spam filters
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25 [00:19:16] <jcb2016> rotflmao
26 [00:19:31] <jcb2016> OerHeks: i didn't check no under the antispam1 field o_O
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28 [00:20:08] <OerHeks> :-)
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169 [01:59:23] <agio> hi, does anyone know whats happening with iptables in buster? will iptables command be gone and replaced with nftables?
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237 [03:08:47] <fling> Where is rc.local on buster?
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241 [03:13:15] <rwp> fling, The question is really, How to enable rc.local with a systemd init. Search for that and you will find your answer.
242 [03:15:24] <fling> rwp: enabled!
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272 [03:40:47] <Deihmos> Is there an app that can backup from the desktop and initiate a restore from the desktop
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276 [03:44:57] <KNERD> Deihmos: replaced-url
277 [03:45:12] <agio> rsync ?
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279 [03:46:14] <Deihmos> Looked at some of those. The best I have used is clonezilla but you have to boot from the usb stick
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281 [03:46:53] <agio> ah, you want to image your disk?
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285 [03:47:46] <KNERD> Why is it on the likes of CentOS I can type in "cd partialFolderName*" and get moved into that directory, but when I try it on Debian, I get "too many arguments"?
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288 [03:48:48] <agio> KNERD: can you provide the output of this command?
289 [03:49:01] <agio> echo partialFolderName*
290 [03:49:07] <dvs> KNERD, because "partialFolderName*" expands to all available files on the command line.
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293 [03:50:49] <KNERD> Basically what this forum thread dicusses replaced-url
294 [03:51:13] <KNERD> -bash: cd: too many arguments
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297 [03:53:03] <agio> if you pasted the output of the command I gave you - you would see the cause of the problem
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299 [03:53:23] <agio> basically - as dvs expplained
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302 [03:53:59] <agio> the glob pattern is matching multiple files - which the shell passes as args to cd
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304 [03:54:53] <jcb2016> hi all. has anyone come here from archlinux? im trying to see what there experience was and why debian is better then arch. i will be getting a new computer and need to know which distro to install
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310 [03:58:10] <KNERD> agio: i dont see the cause. it just echoed the whole directory name
311 [03:58:54] <agio> can you post the output please?
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314 [04:01:04] <KNERD> echo funct*
315 [04:01:06] <KNERD> functions
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317 [04:02:19] <agio> ok, so then `cd funct*' should work
318 [04:02:30] <KNERD> okay
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321 [04:02:40] <agio> does that work for you?
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323 [04:02:44] <KNERD> I did t on the wrong machine
324 [04:03:06] <KNERD> it displays first the folder then a file name
325 [04:03:15] <KNERD> you canno "cd" on a file
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327 [04:04:25] <agio> as expected, can you paste the output of `echo funct*' on that machine (where you're getting the problem)
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331 [04:06:49] <KNERD> i tried to do "cd lin*" and it returned that too many options. WHen I do echo linu* it returns "linux-4.18.5 inux-4.18.5.tar.xy "
332 [04:07:11] <agio> right - so do you see the problem now?
333 [04:07:57] <KNERD> nope. As 1) You cannot cd a file, and 2) the directory is located first in which I want to change to
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335 [04:08:48] <agio> there are a few errors in your assumptions
336 [04:09:19] <agio> maybe a bit too many for me to type out explanations for
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340 [04:10:35] <agio> whats happening is this: your lin* pattern is expanding to:
341 [04:10:45] <KNERD> i will try the forum suggestion
342 [04:10:53] <agio> linux-4.18.5
343 [04:10:57] <agio> _and_
344 [04:11:08] <agio> inux-4.18.5.tar.xy
345 [04:11:16] <agio> thats 2 arguments
346 [04:11:18] <hwweiler> i've added firmware-ralink_20190114-1_all.deb to the firmware folder of my liveusb, why won't the installer pick it up/find it
347 [04:11:37] <hwweiler> dpkg is not available so i can't install it manually either
348 [04:11:37] <dpkg> hwweiler: no idea
349 [04:12:09] <agio> hwweiler: maybe the firmware-ralink... package has dependecies
350 [04:12:17] <agio> dependencies
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352 [04:13:25] <hwweiler> oh, adding them would to the trick i suppose?
353 [04:13:32] <agio> yes
354 [04:13:54] <agio> IF that's that problem
355 [04:14:58] <agio> hwweiler: sometimes you need this package:
356 [04:15:01] <agio> firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-4_all.deb
357 [04:15:21] <agio> in addition to the vendor specific firmware deb archive
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359 [04:15:46] <hwweiler> feels like im going down the rabbit hole
360 [04:16:10] <agio> you are - it
361 [04:16:18] <agio> its called linux
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363 [04:17:28] <agio> you should be able to tell if that firmware-ralink_20190114-1_all.deb depends on the firmware-misc package
364 [04:17:31] <hwweiler> replaced-url
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366 [04:17:48] <agio> are you on buster?
367 [04:18:09] <hwweiler> yes, testing
368 [04:19:04] <agio> do you have aptitude installed?
369 [04:19:38] <hwweiler> im trying to install the base system.. i think this livecd is garbage, ill go for the dvd with kernel modules etc
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375 [04:21:27] <hwweiler> debian-testing-amd64-DVD-1.iso +firmware vs debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
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379 [04:23:19] <dvs> !firmware iso
380 [04:23:19] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
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385 [04:26:31] <hwweiler> dpkg: if the netinstall has the needed firmware so I can actually do a "net" install its better than dowloading the whole dvd xD
386 [04:26:31] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, hwweiler
387 [04:26:58] <hwweiler> dvs: talking to a bot here.. haha
388 [04:27:06] * dvs was amused!
389 [04:27:22] <agio> hwweiler: yes, the ralink firmware package does depend on the firmware-misc package:
390 [04:27:26] <agio> see here:
391 [04:27:26] <dvs> but yeah, I'd use the firmware iso
392 [04:27:28] <agio> replaced-url
393 [04:27:33] <KNERD> agio: maybe a bug or incorrectly configured BASH? Accoring the the BASH manual for "cd" - " Any additional arguments following directory are ignored. "
394 [04:27:40] <KNERD> replaced-url
395 [04:27:55] <agio> KNERD: ah good find - then thats weird
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397 [04:28:46] <hwweiler> agio: yeah, i added the missing files to the liveusb once I was made aware of the dep., didn't help
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399 [04:29:20] <agio> KNERD: unless bash is considering both args as a single string - due to the fact glob expansion is done after word splitting
400 [04:29:38] <hwweiler> testing live also doesnt like passive eth adapters, usb-to-eth ... so
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402 [04:30:03] <agio> hwweiler: you can just finish the install, then load the firmware yourself
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405 [04:31:15] <KNERD> agio: I think if that was the case, then I feel it a different result would be returned as that 'singlestring'not found' would be the result.
406 [04:31:23] <agio> I think all you need to do is `dpkg --install <firmware-misc...deb>' then reboot
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408 [04:32:02] <agio> KNERD: agreed, its just best to pass bash a good glob - I guess
409 [04:32:31] <KNERD> yeah , thanks. or file a bug report :-)
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411 [04:34:10] <agio> KNERD: I find zsh better than bash for that kind of thing because I can do:
412 [04:34:18] <agio> cd **/foo*<TAB>
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414 [04:34:43] <agio> and zsh will interactively expand the glob BEFORE I hit <ENTER>
415 [04:35:00] <KNERD> yeah, I am doing that Linux from Scratch and they want you to use BASH
416 [04:35:00] <agio> so I can see if the glob expanded to many files
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418 [04:35:19] <agio> what is "linux from scratch" ?
419 [04:36:17] <KNERD> it's a site dedicated to teaching people how ot build their own Linux distro from scratch replaced-url
420 [04:36:46] <agio> awesome
421 [04:37:21] <KNERD> I want to bring back a distro Microsoft bought out then shut down
422 [04:38:00] <KNERD> because it souned too much like Windows
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424 [04:38:27] <agio> cool :)
425 [04:38:43] <KNERD> Maybe they will pay me 16 millions also to go away
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480 [05:35:51] <paris_0> Hi folks, I don't know, but it will be feasible to install openoffice on debian?
481 [05:36:23] <penpatde> paris_0: i see no reason why it would not be feasible
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483 [05:38:17] <paris_0> I went to the Synaptic Package Manager, but it wasn't so . . .
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489 [05:43:18] <aaro> it's libreoffice now
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491 [05:45:44] <SerajewelKS> yeah. it hasn't been openoffice for years.
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507 [06:04:18] <de-facto> Hey, can i run dpkg-reconfigure without _any_ frontend in a script? i want to preseed the answers with debconf-{get,set}-selections and want dpkg-reconfigure to configure my package with those defaults...
508 [06:05:27] * penpatde adds karma to the question, without having an answer
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512 [06:09:01] <jmcnaught> de-facto: there's a noninteractive frontend, they're all described in debconf(7)
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530 [06:31:40] <de-facto> you mean like after "cat conf | debconf-set-selections" i just run "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive dpkg-reconfigure <package>"?
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540 [06:49:54] <spacebison> E: Release file for replaced-url
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542 [06:51:37] <spacebison> Just ran apt-get update. Anything I can do about this?
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550 [06:54:03] <rwp> spacebison, Is your system clock correct? I just did an update and I am not getting an expired certificate.
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556 [06:59:14] <spacebison> Yep it's correct. It seems someone else had this problem earlier too. replaced-url
557 [06:59:34] <spacebison> replaced-url
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559 [07:00:26] <spacebison> I ran apt-get update again and no errors this time.
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563 [07:01:41] <SerajewelKS> spacebison: i have been hitting that same error for about six hours
564 [07:01:53] <SerajewelKS> i'm guessing that the RR DNS is giving me a bad mirror
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568 [07:03:41] <SerajewelKS> the mirror i'm hitting is ftp-nyc.osuosl.org over IPv6
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570 [07:04:41] <SerajewelKS> on those InRelease files, gpg -v says "0040f94d11d0039505328a90b2ff48968db873e9e7967307631bf40ef5679275 32 non-free/source/Sources.xz
571 [07:04:44] <SerajewelKS> gpg: Signature made Tue 26 Feb 2019 09:22:28 PM EST"
572 [07:04:52] <SerajewelKS> (mispaste) which i'm guessing is too old?
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579 [07:11:01] <spacebison> That could very well be it.
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605 [07:24:22] <KOLANICH> hello everybody
606 [07:24:47] <KOLANICH> I have some questions about packages.
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610 [07:25:35] <KOLANICH> 1. why there is no good package for tcl, like ActiveTcl?
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612 [07:26:37] <KOLANICH> 2. Why does dh always clean? Can it be disabled?
613 [07:27:00] <KOLANICH> 3. How can I prevent dh from generating a debug package?
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626 [07:40:49] <blueingress> Hi, I have problem opening gparted, here is the error messages: gparted , Unit tmp.mount does not exist, proceeding anyway. No protocol specified...(gpartedbin:30045): Gtk-WARNING **: 14:38:13.079: cannot open display: :0
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628 [07:42:34] <civillian> blueingress: how are you starting gparted
629 [07:43:32] <blueingress> civillian, in terminal with root user
630 [07:43:56] <civillian> blueingress: try sudo gparted as yourself not root
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634 [07:45:42] <diogenes_> blueingress, afaik the command should be: gparted-pkexec
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637 [07:47:08] <blueingress> civillian, start by myself with sudo , and the same error message.
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640 [07:48:00] <civillian> blueingress: you are running an X terminal, right?
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642 [07:48:10] <blueingress> diogenes_, sudo: gparted-pkexec: command not found
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645 [07:48:59] <CarlFK> how can I see what versions of grub are in stable, testing, unstable?
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647 [07:49:30] <CarlFK> stable has something like 2.02-beta 3 - looking for 2.02 (released)
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652 [07:50:46] <CarlFK> replaced-url
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657 [07:52:23] <penpatde> CarlFK: debian free software guideline, i think
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659 [07:53:22] <CarlFK> penpatde: huh. um.. ok.
660 [07:53:33] <penpatde> ,v grub-common
661 [07:53:34] <judd> Package: grub-common on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.99-27+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 1.99-27+deb7u3; jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1; sid: 2.02+dfsg1-10; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-11
662 [07:53:43] <blueingress> civillian, standard gnome , debain buster
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664 [07:55:12] <penpatde> !dfsg
665 [07:55:12] <dpkg> DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at replaced-url
666 [07:55:19] <penpatde> CarlFK: ^
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668 [07:56:23] <civillian> blueingress: what does 'echo $DISPLAY' say?
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671 [07:57:42] <CarlFK> penpatde: thanks - looks like sid and buster are 2.02 not beta any more
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677 [08:01:06] <blueingress> civillian, :0
678 [08:01:42] <blueingress> civillian, :0 in bash, but I did it from fish.
679 [08:02:23] <blueingress> and I start bash from fish, the same error
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681 [08:02:39] <darxmurf> moening
682 [08:02:56] <darxmurf> s/oe/or/
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781 [09:07:55] <jelly> CarlFK: it means the source tarball that is used to biuld binary packages from has been changed (usually, some non-essential non-free bits removed) to make it 100% compliant with DFSG
782 [09:08:41] <CarlFK> jelly: thanks
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786 [09:13:43] <jelly> reading the package changelog it's due to
787 [09:14:07] <jelly> judd: bug 745409
788 [09:14:08] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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796 [09:20:09] <penpatde> only admins can modify factoids in dpkg, right?
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804 [09:24:35] <penpatde> my suggestion for the DFSG factoid is: "The Debian Free Software Guidelines required changes of the source package for compliance. The guidelines are explained at replaced-url
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810 [09:26:41] <fatalerr0r> hello all
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812 [09:26:52] <bruhbruh> fatalerr0r: hello!
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817 [09:28:58] <penpatde> btw - debian needs an url shortening service!
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822 [09:31:02] <fatalerr0r> I've set up a machine with two interfaces as a temporary router, but can't ssh to it from the wan side. Ssh server listens on 0.0.0.0:22, but the port doesn't seem to be open? It works ok from the lan side. What am I missing?
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825 [09:33:17] <penpatde> fowarding maybe. how did you set it up?
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828 [09:34:47] <jelly> penpatde: most factoids are open for editing but that would not be an appropriate change
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830 [09:35:19] <penpatde> jelly: ah, hmmm. can you elaborate why?
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832 [09:36:22] <jelly> the factoid explains what dfsg is. How it's sometimes used for some source tarball modifications is of secondary importance
833 [09:37:00] <penpatde> i see now, thanks
834 [09:37:11] <jelly> s/it/the string "+dfsg"/
835 [09:37:18] <penpatde> yes
836 [09:38:34] <penpatde> fatalerr0r: in most cases you need some NAT magic and your kernel needs to have forwarding enabled
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838 [09:39:27] <penpatde> the option is in /etc/sysctl.conf and often forgotten
839 [09:40:01] <penpatde> you can set it manually via /proc aswell, when i remember right
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842 [09:41:45] <fatalerr0r> I have a web server and open ssh running on this machine. Both (all) ports seems to be filtered by something on the wan interface but no iptables are set up
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844 [09:42:22] <penpatde> i think you dont understand what i tried to explain
845 [09:42:38] <jelly> fatalerr0r: network equipment that sits between the WAN iface and internet connection might be blocking inbound traffic
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847 [09:42:56] <penpatde> but he speaks of a router that he sets up so nothing should be inbetween?
848 [09:43:10] <fatalerr0r> exactly
849 [09:43:22] <jelly> fatalerr0r: pastebin the output of "ip a" and "iptables-save"
850 [09:43:37] <jelly> which debian release is this?
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852 [09:43:52] <jelly> !paste
853 [09:43:53] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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857 [09:44:57] <jelly> (there's no need for NAT or forwarding to merely access services listening on all local addresses; that's only needed for actual routing)
858 [09:46:26] <jim> hi... how can I find my compose key?
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865 [09:47:26] <diogenes_> jim, in keyboard settings?
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867 [09:48:18] <fatalerr0r> replaced-url
868 [09:48:27] <penpatde> haha, jim
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871 [09:49:15] <penpatde> jim: what do you intend to compose?
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874 [09:50:26] <jim> I'm trying to help someone with a Y with a bar over it, &ymacr
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876 [09:50:53] <penpatde> oh, serious business. sorry
877 [09:51:06] <jelly> fatalerr0r: that "ip a" seems to be missing some lines
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879 [09:51:49] <diogenes_> jim, the best way to determine it is by installing florence or onboard virtual keyboard and there you could see all the characters
880 [09:52:27] <jelly> jim: I have no idea how to find the current setting or if there's any at all, but you can _set_ it with setxkbmap -option compose:...
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883 [09:54:31] <jelly> jim: man xkeyboard-config lists possible settings. Note that invocations of setxkbmap -option are additive.
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885 [09:54:42] <fatalerr0r> replaced-url
886 [09:54:44] <fatalerr0r> sorry
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890 [09:57:54] <jelly> fatalerr0r: use something like "tcpdump -ni enp8s2 port 22" to see if traffic from outside arrives at that machine at all
891 [09:58:01] <jim> jelly, thanks, I'll look at that
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894 [09:59:45] <jelly> fatalerr0r: fwiw, I get icmp replies from both ipv4 and ipv6 but establishing a tcp connection to port 22 seems not to work
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898 [10:02:14] <jelly> fatalerr0r: where do default routes point to ("ip r", "ip -6 r")? that network element may be blocking some inbound traffic
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924 [10:17:00] <kreyren> any way to get rid of those top bars on windows on gnome? replaced-url
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926 [10:17:45] <kreyren> * WM not an option since it's backup OS and i dont want to spent time customizing it >.>
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928 [10:18:30] <penpatde> custom mate desktop is awesome for me
929 [10:18:41] <penpatde> custom->default
930 [10:19:47] <penpatde> i only need to disable the powersaving, enhance the number of workplaces and ready to go
931 [10:19:58] <kreyren> afaik it has same issue
932 [10:20:08] <kreyren> and custom is not an option :/
933 [10:20:17] <penpatde> you can right click and select delete bar
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935 [10:20:31] <kreyren> on MATE ?
936 [10:20:33] <penpatde> yes
937 [10:20:37] <kreyren> o.o
938 [10:20:40] <kreyren> apting
939 [10:20:44] <penpatde> hehe
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942 [10:22:48] <neoclust> Hello, i am trying to build my own kernel ( with my own config ), if i understand correctly i need to modify debian/config/defines . But in replaced-url
943 [10:23:15] <neoclust> how do i modify this file ? ( because if i don't, i can't build my kernel and obtain: ABI is not completely versioned! Refusing to continue. )
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948 [10:25:32] <petn-randall> neoclust: You likely want to follow replaced-url
949 [10:25:49] <petn-randall> The ABI is only relevant if you patch the kernel.
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951 [10:26:51] <neoclust> petn-randall: i only changed the config file ( debian/config/amd64/config ), i recreated the tarball and restarted the build
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955 [10:29:36] <perseiver> I want to control traffic for ethernet interface eth0 to 81 kbits/sec in Debian. How to do that? I have got link for tc (Traffic Control) command. But its too complex to understand and use it as per my requirement. Have anyone experience with 'tc' command?
956 [10:30:05] <petn-randall> neoclust: That file is only relevant if you want to build kernels for the Debian repository. It's much easier if you follow the instructions in the link.
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963 [10:35:03] <rdz> hey all. 'apt-get update' prints some new lines on one host that do not appear on other hosts, like: "Building old list of packages..."
964 [10:35:15] <rdz> how can that be controlled?
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967 [10:36:07] <kreyren> penpatde: got Mate, is it supposed to be forked XFCE? o.o
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971 [10:38:11] <penpatde> mate is a continued gnome 2
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973 [10:38:33] <kreyren> panpatde: installed mate-desktop-environment and it's xfce xD
974 [10:38:40] <kreyren> what is the package for gnome?
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978 [10:38:53] <penpatde> xfce was forked off of gnome 2 some time ago
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981 [10:39:17] <kreyren> noted
982 [10:39:52] <penpatde> gnome2 is no longer in the repo
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984 [10:40:52] <kreyren> hm o.o suggestion?
985 [10:40:55] <kreyren> grab it from ubuntu?
986 [10:41:33] <penpatde> gnome3 you can grab from debian repos just not version 2. and i doubt hard ubuntu provides it cause its not in development since quite a while
987 [10:41:54] <kreyren> i see, so it's not an option for me probably
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991 [10:42:32] <penpatde> mate _is_ gnome2 with many small fixes and a bit of polishing up
992 [10:43:09] <penpatde> you really want to skip it because a fork (xfce) looks similar?
993 [10:43:36] <kreyren> it's XFCE with MATE skin on my end.. replaced-url
994 [10:44:08] <kreyren> i dont want to use XFCE since it's not user-friendly enough OOTB
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996 [10:44:19] <penpatde> i think you are confused or i am or we both
997 [10:44:26] <kreyren> eh?
998 [10:44:30] <petn-randall> rdz: If you show us the actual output it would help a lot. replaced-url
999 [10:44:51] <rdz> petn-randall, sure
1000 [10:44:55] <penpatde> not mate was forked of xfce. it was the other way around
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1002 [10:45:28] <petn-randall> xfce is not a fork of mate or gnome.
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1005 [10:45:46] <penpatde> petn-randall: it uses the gnome toolkit
1006 [10:45:57] <rdz> petn-randall, replaced-url
1007 [10:45:58] <kreyren> penpatde: ah noted
1008 [10:45:59] <Ticho_> why do people keep using toolbars on top and bottom on widescreens, where vertical space is at a premium? use the sides, luke!
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1010 [10:46:30] <penpatde> Ticho_: nice tip :)
1011 [10:46:47] <rdz> petn-randall, on most system the output looks like this, though: replaced-url
1012 [10:47:24] <petn-randall> penpatde: That's not what a fork is, though. If it uses libraries, it's just called that. replaced-url
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1014 [10:48:22] <petn-randall> rdz: Well, you're comparing "apt" with "apt-get". They're not the same tools.
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1028 [10:53:29] <rdz> petn-randall, oops
1029 [10:53:32] <rdz> my mistake..
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1031 [10:54:11] <rdz> petn-randall, that is how it normally looks like: replaced-url
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1038 [10:58:25] <petn-randall> rdz: I'm assuming that is some tool like apt-listbugs that is generating the output.
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1040 [10:59:14] <penpatde> i learned from online people that xfce is a fork of gnome 2. maybe it is a mistake to pass knowledge along that was gained this way
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1042 [11:00:34] <petn-randall> penpatde: Yes, a "fork" means that development was branched off and follows another direction. This is not the case. Both use the GTK engine, which is part of the DE.
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1044 [11:00:59] <penpatde> its about a project, the actual code is secondary
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1046 [11:01:38] <petn-randall> penpatde: They're use the same libraries, just like GIMP and Gnome use GTK. Or like "apt", "apt-get" and "aptitude" all use the libapt library.
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1048 [11:01:48] <petn-randall> s/use/using/
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1054 [11:02:38] <penpatde> a fork is mainly a process where a part of the group of developers leave the existing project to try to do things different
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1057 [11:03:22] <penpatde> the codebase can be very different and its still a fork
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1060 [11:04:14] <penpatde> but i shut up now before i get banned again
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1071 [11:09:45] <petn-randall> penpatde: It's not. No code was forked. Read up on the link I gave you. If at all, xfce is a fork of CDE.
1072 [11:10:06] <petn-randall> penpatde: FYI: replaced-url
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1074 [11:10:17] <penpatde> petn-randall: i understand your reasoning but i doubt you understand mine
1075 [11:10:23] <petn-randall> "Like GNOME, Xfce is based on the GTK toolkit, but it is not a GNOME fork."
1076 [11:10:35] <penpatde> we can stop. its alright
1077 [11:10:57] <petn-randall> penpatde: Xfce developers never left the gnome project. They didn't work on gnome to start with.
1078 [11:11:28] <penpatde> petn-randall: that feels a bit pedantic and this day is too nice to deal with pedantic people
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1081 [11:12:06] <penpatde> have some fun
1082 [11:12:19] * petn-randall shrugs.
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1084 [11:13:49] <petn-randall> This channel is there for fine Debian folks to get educated. Not that I'm particularly enthusiastic about this topic, but I can't just leave false statements stand as other might pick it up, too.
1085 [11:14:00] <penpatde> fine debian folk where i do not belong?
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1090 [11:15:08] <penpatde> i said this day is too nice to deal with people who dont care to understand _my_ reasoning. people who value text data more than the people who create them
1091 [11:15:21] <petn-randall> penpatde: I never said that. You're free to ask for and give support in here. Just take into account that people might correct you. That's part of this channel.
1092 [11:15:24] <penpatde> no.
1093 [11:15:36] <penpatde> dont hilight me anymore. please.
1094 [11:15:59] <penpatde> i can be on this channel just fine
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1096 [11:16:13] <petn-randall> I understand your reasoning, it's just that nobody uses "fork" the way you use it, and that's misleading.
1097 [11:16:18] <penpatde> its not only about fine operators and developers. its also about common users
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1099 [11:16:48] <penpatde> common people. simpled minded folks.
1100 [11:17:04] <penpatde> "fine debian folks"
1101 [11:17:07] <penpatde> my goodness.
1102 [11:17:20] <penpatde> how rude
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1104 [11:17:38] <petn-randall> penpatde: Feel free to bring it up in #debian-ops if you feel mistreated.
1105 [11:17:48] <penpatde> to ruin my day?
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1107 [11:17:54] <penpatde> is that what you are after?
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1110 [11:18:13] <petn-randall> penpatde: I included you when I meant "fine Debian folks".
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1115 [11:18:40] <petn-randall> !next
1116 [11:18:40] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1121 [11:23:00] <BlastuR> hey! having some issues installing debian on my laptop. i run the network installer, everything is fine and GRUB installs fine (grub-efi). I'm asked to eject my USB stick and reboot, that also works. Boots fine into the new system. However! Once I reboot the system again (after booting into it the first tiem), it won't boot again. The bios just says there's no bootable system on the HDD. If I again boot with
1122 [11:23:02] <BlastuR> the USB stick and enter rescue mode, I see that my rootfs seems OK and also my EFI /boot partition is populated with files. Any ideas?
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1124 [11:23:54] <petn-randall> BlastuR: I'd double check the EFI setup that you're not trying to boot in legacy mode. That means setting "UEFI only" and disabling CSM.
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1127 [11:24:12] <BlastuR> FYI, i've tried both Debian 9 and the new buster alpha 4. same result
1128 [11:24:23] <areyouloco> BlastuR: also check Boot Secure option.
1129 [11:24:24] <petn-randall> Your issue seems to match my assumption at least.
1130 [11:24:42] <areyouloco> in UEFI
1131 [11:24:49] <BlastuR> Ok, i'll try looking at the bios. I may have disabled secure boot because I used to run Archlinux on this laptop before
1132 [11:25:19] <petn-randall> BlastuR: Right, secure boot should be disabled, as it's not supported.
1133 [11:25:41] <BlastuR> is there a way to enter diagnostics mode from the debian installer iso menu? i can't seem to figure out how to find the correct keyboard shortcut on my laptop
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1140 [11:28:18] <BlastuR> okay, secure boot is disabled and there's no legacy boot mode in my bios
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1144 [11:28:46] <BlastuR> i didn't change the bios since i used archlinux on this, it was also using uefi boot .. but with reFind instead of GRUB
1145 [11:29:16] <BlastuR> im a little confused why it is able to boot the first boot though?
1146 [11:29:25] <BlastuR> will debian do something to the boot sequence upon its first boot?
1147 [11:30:12] <SerajewelKS> unlikely
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1150 [11:35:12] <BlastuR> hm. If I go into the debian rescue mode and let it run "grub-install /dev/sda" (so it install to the MBR), I'm able to boot into the system once more. But any subsequent boot fails again..?
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1154 [11:36:26] <SerajewelKS> that is very strange
1155 [11:36:34] <cheapie> Could always try installing to the removable media path too.
1156 [11:36:43] <cheapie> IIRC it's "--force-extra-removable" to do that.
1157 [11:37:05] <cheapie> Some UEFI implementations are broken enough that that's the only way to make them boot properly.
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1159 [11:37:16] <BlastuR> cheapie: so i'd need the USB stick inserted to boot?
1160 [11:37:27] <cheapie> No.
1161 [11:38:17] <cheapie> There's a path that UEFI bootable removable media has its boot files located in, and adding that option forces them to be installed to the same location on your hard drive as well.
1162 [11:38:23] <BlastuR> there's a menu in the rescue mode that says "Force grub installation to the EFI removable media path", i'll try that then.
1163 [11:38:30] <cheapie> Yep, that's that option.
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1168 [11:42:24] <BlastuR> cheapie: hurray! that did it, now i'm able to boot multiple times without usb inserted
1169 [11:42:47] <cheapie> Broken UEFI implementations are fun, aren't they? :P
1170 [11:43:21] <BlastuR> this laptop is quite old (i believe 2011-ish), so i'm not surprised if it has quirks with uefi
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1172 [11:44:02] <cheapie> What that effectively did, by the way, was set up your hard drive such that the computer's firmware boots from it as if it was some type of external/removable drive.
1173 [11:44:33] <BlastuR> i see
1174 [11:44:35] <cheapie> That means that the boot order might not be guaranteed, but it makes it boot even if the boot order in NVRAM gets mangled somehow.
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1177 [11:45:25] <BlastuR> if i check "efibootmgr", debian is not in the list anymore...but hey, it works .)
1178 [11:45:31] <cheapie> So instead of "my records say I should boot from this device" you get "I have a removable device (actually the hard drive) plugged in, I should boot from that"
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1180 [11:46:02] <cheapie> Yeah, efibootmgr won't list it since it's not actually being stored in the NVRAM any more.
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1182 [11:46:29] <BlastuR> gotcha
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1207 [12:03:22] <rdz> petn-randall, thanks for your answer
1208 [12:05:20] <petn-randall> rdz: Was it apt-listbugs?
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1220 [12:13:36] <rdz> petn-randall, no.. haven't found the reason yet
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1225 [12:18:19] <rdz> petn-randall, finally found it: you were right, it was a another installed utility generating those messages: daptup
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1227 [12:18:32] <rdz> have to figure out why it was installed in the first place
1228 [12:20:39] <petn-randall> rdz: Ah, great to now. Nice :)
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1237 [12:28:05] <klys> replaced-url
1238 [12:28:08] <klys> sorting my files...
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1294 [12:57:00] <mrtnt> I noticed that some system accounts like replaced-url
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1304 [13:01:03] <BCMM> mrtnt: my guess is to allow you to put /home/ on a different filesystem without causing problems for daemons
1305 [13:02:03] <ksk> mrtnt: man hier; also I would think its a historical thing.
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1307 [13:02:53] <BCMM> especially if those daemons start before the /home/ directory is mounted, or are even needed in some way to mount /home/ (unusual home-on-network setups?)
1308 [13:03:10] <ksk> and yeah, daemons are normally not storing their corresponding dataset in /home - as this is kind of for "real users"
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1310 [13:04:37] <tsglove> Hello. Question for the more knowledable
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1313 [13:05:17] <tsglove> *knowledgable: Do I need ACL to accomplish this? --> I want all files placed inside a directory to have 774 as permissions.
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1316 [13:06:10] <ksk> ehm, no?
1317 [13:06:18] <tsglove> I did accomplish the "same group ownership" with the setguid g+s.... yet, how can I make all files placed in the directory have 774 as permission?
1318 [13:06:18] <ksk> just set a corresponding umask.
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1320 [13:06:33] <tsglove> umask on the user himself, right?
1321 [13:06:39] <ksk> group ownership and permissions are different things.
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1323 [13:06:43] <ksk> yes.
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1326 [13:06:50] <tsglove> Ah. Ok.
1327 [13:06:58] <ksk> the umask defines which permissions newly created files and direcoties et.
1328 [13:07:00] <ksk> *get
1329 [13:07:22] <tsglove> Well, the user is one I created to receive sftp uploads. I set his shell to rssh and chroot to /var/sftp/ inside sshd_config
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1331 [13:07:50] <tsglove> The umask... would then go in his rssh start-up script?
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1336 [13:09:05] <ksk> mhm not sure sorry. might be a thing that could be done via PAM.
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1338 [13:09:28] <tsglove> ksk, thank you. I'll search some more.
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1341 [13:10:21] <mrtnt> BCMM, ksk: ok, thanks! I have a script which queries data over SNMP and creates, updates, etc RRDtool databases. This script is executed using cron with regular intervals. There is a separate user for this script. Should I use /home as a base directory for this system user home directory? /var? /var/lib? From practicality point of view all three should work equally fine in this case.
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1343 [13:10:55] <ksk> tsglove: replaced-url
1344 [13:10:56] <shtrb> Does the thunderbolt issue with IOMMU has a debian mitigation ? ( replaced-url
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1347 [13:12:06] <ksk> mrtnt: I would advise against /home, but it does not really matter and comes down to (your?) policy imho.
1348 [13:12:34] <ksk> like, if your company normally puts it in /var - create a directory there.
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1353 [13:13:59] <ksk> tsglove: there also seems to be pam_umask ;)
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1356 [13:14:29] <tsglove> ksk, I'm reading through the stackexchange post... I'll head over to pam_umask as soon as I am finished. This looks good. Thank you!
1357 [13:14:56] <mrtnt> ksk: for me the /var looks also more appropriate because this is not an account for a person. It is a system account which simply runs certain scripts.
1358 [13:15:03] <ksk> pam_umask is mentioned at the bottom of the article ;) glad I could help.
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1368 [13:18:45] <tsglove> ksk, I think modifying sshd_config is the way to go. Going to test asap. Thank you! w00t w00t!
1369 [13:19:20] <ksk> !next
1370 [13:19:20] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1433 [14:03:57] <sdisavona> I'm looking for a good guide about initramfs and hooks. Do you know any
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1440 [14:05:46] <petn-randall> sdisavona: `man initramfs-tools` has a section about hooks. If you have a specific question, feel free to ask in here.
1441 [14:06:04] <sdisavona> I've read it, but I find it to be quite short.
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1443 [14:06:48] <sdisavona> I want to add mdadm hook, how do I do it?
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1447 [14:07:34] <petn-randall> sdisavona: What should that hook do?
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1451 [14:10:19] <sinhue> Hi guys. Looking for help creating sftp share on specific folder on debian. I'm using debian 9.5. I can sftp into remote machine but all I get i 'remote readdir ("/"): Permission denied.'
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1456 [14:11:47] <sdisavona> I need it to assemble my RAID according to what I've specified in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf, instead of doing it automatically.
1457 [14:13:53] <sdisavona> On arch if I add mdadm_udev to HOOKS and rebuild initramfs, it works. I want to do its equivalent in debian.
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1467 [14:17:35] <Guifle> hello, can you help me please in finding the page for downloading debian?
1468 [14:17:50] <Guifle> I found one, but I am forwarded to an external page with bizarre tar.gz links
1469 [14:17:54] <Guifle> where I need an iso
1470 [14:18:35] <sdisavona> Do I just have to copy "/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/mdadm" in "/etc/initramfs-tools/hooks" and rebuild initramfs?
1471 [14:19:02] <petn-randall> Guifle: it's on debian.org, top right corner is a direct link.
1472 [14:19:13] <sdisavona> replaced-url
1473 [14:20:25] <Guifle> petn-randall, hi, thank you, I found it but I see iso images only under cd/dvd install..and its size is 292M, is it the correct one? I will install with internet connection
1474 [14:20:33] <petn-randall> sdisavona: Is there a reason you have to do it manually? mdadm normally sets up any raids according to the config in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf, assuming the UUIDs match.
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1476 [14:20:46] <sdisavona> It's not.
1477 [14:21:15] <Guifle> yes, I am on the page you mention, sdisavona
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1480 [14:21:57] <sdisavona> If I launch 'mdadm --assemble --scan' it will do it accordingly to "/etc/mdadm/mdadm/conf", so I wanna try using mdadm hooks.
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1482 [14:22:14] <Guifle> sdisavona, is it not correct? did you reply to me?
1483 [14:22:44] <sdisavona> @Guifle Last reply was for petn-randall. For you, just pick up your architecture and download the iso.
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1488 [14:24:07] <sdisavona> amd64 is 64 bit for PC, the vast majority of AMD/Intel PC. Most people wanting a PC-oriented debian system for everyday will probably just need xfce iso: replaced-url
1489 [14:24:51] <sdisavona> Personally I've always used netinstall isos and configured my system handpicking packages by hand.
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1495 [14:32:20] <Guifle> sdisavona, ah ok, thank you
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1518 [14:52:18] <rant> Guifle: were you planning to use wifi to install?
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1521 [14:53:57] <rant> Guifle: some wifi require nonfree firmware not in debians main repos and thus not included in the installer we have a nonfree firmware installer recommended if you plan to install over wifi
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1525 [14:55:01] <Guifle> rant, yes
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1528 [14:55:23] <Guifle> rant, yes, I know it from earlier installs
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1531 [14:56:37] <petn-randall> sdisavona: `mdadm --assemble --scan` works on any headers from the raid elements, so if your config in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf is wrong, it will still work.
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1534 [14:57:33] <rant> Guifle: replaced-url
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1536 [14:58:00] <rant> Guifle: that is the latest 64bit netinstall with the non-free firmware included
1537 [14:58:17] <petn-randall> sdisavona: You can run `mdadm --examine --scan` and compare it with the lines in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf.
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1539 [14:59:18] <Guifle> rant, thank you!
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1556 [15:12:18] <GNUtoo> hi, I see that there is some links like /vmlinuz /vmlinuz.old /initrd.img /initrd.img.old, where are they created?
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1561 [15:12:56] <GNUtoo> I've looked in /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ and didn't find a script doing that
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1565 [15:15:20] <GNUtoo> I want to add a link like that: /dtb -> /usr/lib/linux-image-${version}
1566 [15:15:41] <GNUtoo> This would allow to use syslinux config files with u-boot on ARM
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1574 [15:23:30] <mns> GNUtoo: if my memory serves me right, the /vmlinuz links come from the linux=image package
1575 [15:24:27] <greycat> I think it's somehow related to the "do_symlink = yes" in /etc/kernel-img.conf
1576 [15:24:36] <greycat> sorry, do_symlinks
1577 [15:25:11] <greycat> Sadly, that file refers me to a man page that I don't seem to have....
1578 [15:25:38] <mns> I don't have a debian system anymore, hence the "if my memory serves me right"
1579 [15:26:10] <greycat> there is replaced-url
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1585 [15:32:47] <jelly> judd: file kernel-img.conf.5.gz
1586 [15:32:51] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
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1588 [15:33:31] <jelly> Mine's in "kernel-common" but from stretch-backports
1589 [15:33:39] <greycat> (and that page doesn't have do_symlinks on it, either)
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1614 [15:40:57] <AlexNagy> Is there any Debian (or Linux-in-general) equivalent to mozbackup? I'm needing an easy way to sync my Thunderbird profile amongst computers and while mozbackup works on Windows, it apparently doesn't have a Linux port. Something that reads the mozbackup file would be ideal, next would be something I could use on both Debian and Windows as an alternative. Thanks. (:
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1618 [15:42:10] <petn-randall> AlexNagy: What does mozbackup do exactly?
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1622 [15:43:22] <AlexNagy> It automatically copies account settings from Thunderbird (mail/news accounts, individual configurations, etc.), packages them into a single file, and allows you to restore when needed. It's like manually doing this via the Thunderbird forums thread on the subject but much quicker.
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1624 [15:43:37] <darxmurf> is there a way to see the "mount" options used by thunar when browsing a smb:// address ?
1625 [15:43:39] <AlexNagy> The only thing it doesn't copy is filtering rules :'(
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1627 [15:44:21] <petn-randall> AlexNagy: Can you just copy the thunderbird config dir with all it's files over? I know that works from Linux to Linux, haven't checked if Windows is any different.
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1632 [15:45:23] <AlexNagy> It can be done manually, trying to avoid doing that (I've done it in the past from Linux <-> Windows, mozbackup was nice and handy and also works for a host of other Mozilla products).
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1640 [15:47:29] <AlexNagy> I wonder if mozbackup would work properly under WINE? *just thought of this*
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1645 [15:49:30] <petn-randall> Probably not. If it's only zipping and unzipping a folder, do you really need a specific tool for it?
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1648 [15:50:30] <AlexNagy> It's nice and handy with a fancy gui. It makes my life easier. I don't have to search for all the appropriate directories. *clickclickdone*
1649 [15:50:52] <paris_0> Hi folks, I have a question, each time when I start up a computer, I have to go to Sound Preferences and change in the Output from "Build-in Audio Analog Stereo to "V20 portable speakers(USB Powered). So there is a way to fix it, so I don't have to change each time I boot up my computer?
1650 [15:51:05] <AlexNagy> Thanks for the help, petn-randall (:
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1675 [16:07:43] <r3> every hour, I get rsyslog messages from 'anacron', even though in my rsyslog.conf, I've added the line '*.*;cron,authpriv.none @[rsyslog server]' ... is there a way to queit anacron in the same fashion?
1676 [16:07:58] <r3> s/queit/quiet/
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1684 [16:13:57] <AlexNagy> petn-randall, I just tried to open the .pcv that mozbackup makes and it was just a simple extract using the archive manager (Cinnamon desktop) overwriting the existing (and blank) profile information. Sorry to have bothered.
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1698 [16:20:36] <petn-randall> AlexNagy: I assumed it was something like that. Glad it worked out for you!
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1706 [16:24:57] <AlexNagy> Thanks, I think I'm still going to look for another, universal tool to do this. I have also dedicated myself to learning Python so I may just write one myself one day. Who knows?!
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1709 [16:25:48] <Haohmaru> the future
1710 [16:26:38] <AlexNagy> The future will take care of itself. I can only concern myself with today.
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1713 [16:27:26] <Haohmaru> hurry up then, today is running out
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1717 [16:29:32] <greycat> Today is infinite. Is it today? Yup. 24 hours from now, you can ask again, and it'll still be today.
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1720 [16:31:05] <Haohmaru> <thatscheating.jpg>
1721 [16:31:06] <EdePopede> sign on a restaurant: "tomorrow: all meals for free"
1722 [16:31:59] <Haohmaru> EdePopede i've had collegues who literally wrote "this enquiry is for tomorrow"
1723 [16:32:09] <Haohmaru> women
1724 [16:32:10] * AlexNagy and just like that, chat devolved into armchair philosophy
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1727 [16:33:17] <AlexNagy> and of course, it seems all my efforts are for naught at the moment. Network I'm currently connected to disallows imap connections, apparently.
1728 [16:33:35] * AlexNagy but the profiles are in place
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1730 [16:34:08] <JustASlacker> who the heck disables imap
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1732 [16:34:16] <petn-randall> greycat: That's an interesting excuse to stay away from work.
1733 [16:34:17] * AlexNagy shrugs
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1737 [16:36:48] <jelly> JustASlacker: imaps lovers!
1738 [16:37:01] <JustASlacker> starttls is where its at
1739 [16:37:11] <jelly> nope
1740 [16:37:37] <jelly> everything old is new again. Current recommendations are SSL-only ports again.
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1742 [16:38:21] <jelly> (SSL/TLS direct ones. 993 imaps, 995 pop3s, 465 smtps for submission)
1743 [16:38:35] <JustASlacker> whose recommendations
1744 [16:39:18] <jelly> RFC8314
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1749 [16:42:03] <gordonfish> Question; Why do the *SUMS files in replaced-url
1750 [16:42:47] <petn-randall> gordonfish: The others can be generated with jigdo. They've been used so little in the past that it was decided not to mirror them.
1751 [16:42:55] <gordonfish> (14 + 2 update files)
1752 [16:43:06] <gordonfish> Oh
1753 [16:43:12] <gordonfish> What exactly is on them?
1754 [16:44:14] <petn-randall> gordonfish: The entire Debian suite, so all ~52,000 packages from the repository.
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1758 [16:45:45] <gordonfish> petn-randall: Ah. I figured it was just ordinary stuff that's in the repo
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1760 [16:46:14] <gordonfish> And that's a lot of packages, deee-aaam
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1770 [16:56:27] <r3> I've looked in the anacron config, but can't make heads or tails of it. 'man anacron' isn't helpful, and I think it's fibbing about sending messages as 'cron' as I don't get cron messages in syslog, only the bloody anacron ones.
1771 [16:57:01] <r3> I see that it is executed as 'anacron -dsq' - which - looking at the manpage - looks like it should be quiet with the -q (but that's only stderror) -d (controls forking, but mentions sending to syslog)
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1774 [16:58:01] <lowin> Hello. Where can I find dvd images for old debian versions? The mirrors in download page only seem to have 9.8
1775 [16:58:09] <greycat> *sigh*
1776 [16:58:37] <greycat> Someone else can try to figure out how people think this crap and how to make them understand. I'm apparently incapable of it.
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1778 [16:59:12] <petn-randall> lowin: What Debian version do you need?
1779 [16:59:25] <lowin> petn-randall, squeeze in particular
1780 [17:00:30] <petn-randall> lowin: Is there a reason you want to install an unsupported Debian version?
1781 [17:01:03] <lowin> petn-randall, Nah I just wanted to go on a nostalgia trip, it was the first debian version I used back in the days ^^
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1783 [17:01:40] <petn-randall> lowin: replaced-url
1784 [17:01:50] *** Quits: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1785 [17:01:53] <lowin> awesome. thank you
1786 [17:02:06] <Haohmaru> fresh from the archeological museum
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1789 [17:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1523
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1796 [17:07:13] <AlexNagy> Woody was my first.
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1801 [17:09:58] <EdePopede> hamm. and then i didn't get isdn running. don't ask why. lost in the tides of times.
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1803 [17:10:24] <EdePopede> this was dselect only back then?
1804 [17:11:11] <AlexNagy> I believe so. >,<
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1810 [17:13:00] <EdePopede> 4 (*four*) CDs. not DVD. half of them containing the sources. wow.
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1812 [17:14:19] <EdePopede> oh wait. even half of it only. slink was 2+2. bought that disc set later too. just because.
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1817 [17:15:54] <AlexNagy> I still haven't bought an 'official' disc set. I've spent so much on my own cds/dvds I probably could have bought several already. :thinking:
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1820 [17:16:47] <EdePopede> btw, if a shop mentions "recent stable" then this should definitely be 9.8 atm? i've seen some mention "9" or "recent" only, only one shop here i've seen with "14" and "9.8". one even has a set of 8 DVDs. :shrug:
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1825 [17:18:31] <ksk> EdePopede: thats just a thing of defining the word recent imho
1826 [17:18:43] <EdePopede> actually my first linux was a pc mag i bought to save myself from dying of boredom before a longer train travel. was in the days when installation parties in bookshops and such were still a thing *sigh*
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1828 [17:19:00] <greycat> Sounds like they have a generic page that they don't want to have to keep updating (and isn't dynamic enough to update itself) so they use vague wording on it.
1829 [17:19:16] *** Quits: HarryPothead (~HarryPoth@replaced-ip ) (Quit: HarryPothead)
1830 [17:19:19] <EdePopede> ksk: my thoughts. they probably have consulted their lawyers before ;)
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1832 [17:21:58] <EdePopede> is it up to the vendor how much the project gets back?
1833 [17:22:51] <EdePopede> hm. well. that's a bad definition of "recent" > 9 Release Juni 2017, stabil
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1840 [17:25:32] <AlexNagy> I take back what I said about not buying an official set. I actually bought a boxed Set for RedHat 6.2 from Walmart. even came with a sticker for the keyboard wrist-rest. I installed that over a broken installation of Windows 95 on an IBM PC-330 (Pentium 90, 500MB HDD, I forget how little RAM but it was 'good enough' back then lul)
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1844 [17:26:51] <petn-randall> EdePopede: It's free for everyone to define the price, and even how much to contribute to the project.
1845 [17:27:06] <AlexNagy> Gotta love freedom.
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1853 [17:32:16] <password4> hi
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1856 [17:32:33] <password4> how is debians support of usb3.1 gen2?
1857 [17:32:48] <password4> anyone ever got transfer speeds of 1GB/s
1858 [17:33:18] <de-facto> Gals and Guys, i have a Docker container FROM: debian:buster-slim which contains /etc/init.d scripts, how would i launch init.d process as PID1? i guess i would have to do a script (PID1 ENTRYPOINT) and do exec <launch initd process> inside that?
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1862 [17:34:00] <de-facto> e.g. how was the init.d process (PID1) launched in debian prior to its migration to systemd?
1863 [17:34:32] <greycat> It's not called "init.d". That's the name of a subdirectory of /etc. It's just called "init" or "sysvinit".
1864 [17:34:49] <greycat> dpkg stretch sysvinit
1865 [17:34:49] <dpkg> To replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit in buster or sid, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
1866 [17:34:50] <petn-randall> de-facto: The kernel launches PID1. And I'd call it "sysv init".
1867 [17:35:01] <gedia> hello all, i've been trying to test out buster using d-i.debian.org/daily-images/amd64/daily/netboot/, but the installer keeps failing with "no kernel modules were found". Is this expected?
1868 [17:35:12] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
1869 [17:35:34] <de-facto> yes how can I exec <launch sysv init>?
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1871 [17:37:32] <petn-randall> de-facto: It sounds like you've already got that, and you're getting an error message because of that. IIRC the host systemd is called in docker containers, too.
1872 [17:37:42] <de-facto> lol installing sysvinit-core restarted my container :/
1873 [17:38:02] <de-facto> no all inside the container
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1878 [17:39:17] <de-facto> basically i want to launch several processes in one container and i have seen my debian packages come with init.d scripts, so i thought why not just use those for them
1879 [17:40:09] <de-facto> so i would employ debian's sysvinit for that, but i guess i have to launch it from my ENTRYPOINT (PID1)
1880 [17:41:38] <SerajewelKS> is there a way to get patch to ignore files that appear in the diff but are missing on disk?
1881 [17:41:56] <SerajewelKS> the closest option i see is -f but that also does other things i don't want
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1884 [17:43:24] <SerajewelKS> i'm using it to upgrade between different versions of software, where the default installation ships with some plugins that our devs/designers delete as extra cruft
1885 [17:43:40] <SerajewelKS> so the logic is: if the plugin is still there, i want it patched. if it's not there, i don't want the patch to fail.
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1888 [17:44:28] <de-facto> cant you split it up in one patch per plugin and only launch patch if the plugin is there?
1889 [17:44:49] <SerajewelKS> i mean.... yes, if i want to spend a few hours building a script to do that...
1890 [17:44:52] <petn-randall> de-facto: Docker is only really good at starting a single process within the container. Everything above that is already abusing docker.
1891 [17:45:07] <petn-randall> (and proper VMs or other things are better suited)
1892 [17:45:09] <SerajewelKS> i figured as versatile as patch is, it probably has an option for this that i haven't found
1893 [17:45:11] <de-facto> yeah i know
1894 [17:45:55] <de-facto> petn-randall, do you know if its possible to use sysvinit inside a container?
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1897 [17:46:37] <petn-randall> de-facto: You can simply call `/etc/init.d/<foo> start`, which is exactly what sysv init would do.
1898 [17:47:15] <de-facto> it does not assume any environment or such ?
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1901 [17:47:47] <petn-randall> !tias
1902 [17:47:48] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
1903 [17:48:13] <petn-randall> I haven't used docker so much. While it's fast, it has a fairly limited use case in my experience.
1904 [17:48:47] <de-facto> its not perfect, but very useful in my experience
1905 [17:49:27] <jelly> de-facto: in general it it possible to use sysvinit inside a container. lxc and openvz based solutions can use any normal /sbin/init inside a vps
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1908 [17:50:42] <de-facto> jelly, do you know how i would start it from a script which runs as PID1? "exec /sbin/init" or sth like that?
1909 [17:51:11] <jelly> start what?
1910 [17:51:21] <de-facto> the sysvinit system
1911 [17:51:27] <greycat> Oh good, I'm not the only one wondering what in the hell he's asking for.
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1914 [17:52:12] <jelly> de-facto: you could pass control to it completely? "exec /sbin/init 2"? Dunno?
1915 [17:52:46] <de-facto> what does the "2" stand for?
1916 [17:52:49] <de-facto> runlevel or such?
1917 [17:52:53] <jelly> runlevel.
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1919 [17:53:05] <de-facto> ok perfect gonna try that then :)
1920 [17:53:20] <jelly> I have no idea how else sysvinit would know which services to bring up
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1923 [17:53:44] <jelly> (is /proc/cmdline emulated inside that container?)
1924 [17:54:40] <de-facto> it contains "BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.15.0-45-generic root=UUID=878dd72c-0827-4f9c-a223-ddf303edcb3f ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1"
1925 [17:54:41] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: It's docker. "Oh, let's pretend I'm a real computer".
1926 [17:55:24] <greycat> Yeah, it is sounding like "I have a docker but I really wanted an openvz so how can I make docker 10 times more powerfuller and have it pretend to be openvz, this should be totally simple, right"
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1928 [17:55:27] <jelly> something needs to reap children of dead processes even inside a docker...
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1930 [17:56:04] <de-facto> yeah thats true, cant init do that?
1931 [17:56:06] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: Nah, you just delete it and spin up another.
1932 [17:56:55] <jelly> de-facto: sure, if you have a decent one that knows and wants to do it
1933 [17:57:35] <de-facto> i mean with "exec /sbin/init 2"
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1935 [17:59:02] <jelly> dunno, TIAS
1936 [17:59:27] <de-facto> ok :)
1937 [17:59:57] * jelly ignores the ubuntu host
1938 [18:00:07] <de-facto> yeah its just for testing...
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1944 [18:00:47] <de-facto> the server (final target) is debian stretch
1945 [18:01:37] <jelly> de-facto: I strongly suspect it's possible to set this "entrypoint" to be /sbin/init itself and avoid any intermediate script?
1946 [18:01:53] <de-facto> thats what im trying right now
1947 [18:02:18] <de-facto> installed sysvinit-core and pointed ENTRYPOINT ["/sbin/init", "2"]
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1949 [18:03:09] <de-facto> but installing sysvinit-core is a bit tricky...
1950 [18:03:18] <jmcnaught> didn't sysvinit get its default runlevel from inittab?
1951 [18:03:19] <de-facto> hmmm ".init: timeout opening/writing control channel /run/initctl"
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1956 [18:05:08] <de-facto> hmm hmm it does a lot more than i want...
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1961 [18:06:39] <de-facto> doesnt feel right to use a full sysvinit for that...
1962 [18:07:46] <gedia> OK so there seems not to be any linux-image-* packages in buster.... Is this normal?
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1964 [18:08:24] <de-facto> get a lot of perm denied from "/sbin/init 2": replaced-url
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1968 [18:10:57] <de-facto> so i probably just should call /etc/init.d/$service from my own script then...
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1970 [18:11:14] <gedia> Oh wait, it's there but it won't show up in search results...
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1972 [18:11:52] <gedia> Any hints on how to overcome anna's "no packages matching running kernel 4.19.0-2-amd64 in archive" during installation?
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1974 [18:12:40] <greycat> ,kernels
1975 [18:12:41] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-3-686-pae (4.19.20-1); buster: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.2-686 (4.19.16-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.144-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-
1976 [18:12:42] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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1979 [18:13:05] <greycat> I guess ask in the #debian-next channel on OFTC
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1983 [18:16:05] <gedia> aparently daily build of netboot is too old and kernel packages for kernel used with d-i have since been removed :-( last build of netboot-daily was on 2019-02-09...
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1987 [18:17:44] <jmcnaught> !testing installer
1988 [18:17:44] <dpkg> Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. replaced-url
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2026 [18:43:36] <de-facto> hmm calling "/etc/init.d/slapd start" also does not work properly, it just fails for no reason ("slapd" just launches fine)
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2028 [18:43:56] <de-facto> maybe using /etc/init.d is not a good idea anymore :/
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2035 [18:45:56] <de-facto> where wold any logs go for invoking "/etc/init.d/slapd start" without launching any sysvinit?
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2039 [18:46:33] <diogenes_> de-facto, isn't it systemctl?
2040 [18:46:54] <de-facto> its inside a docker container, so no systemd or sysvinit at all
2041 [18:47:03] <greycat> He's trying to use a docker container as if it were a VM.
2042 [18:47:45] <FinalX> install snap and lxd instead
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2044 [18:47:58] <FinalX> if that's what you're doing..
2045 [18:48:14] <de-facto> yes i agree its not a VM and i cant rely on a full init system, but i would like to use those /etc/init.d scripts since they prepare a sane environment for the executables
2046 [18:48:27] <FinalX> just don't
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2048 [18:48:39] <FinalX> docker = run 1 application in the foreground, stdout/stdin/stderr managed by dockerd
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2054 [18:49:11] <FinalX> it's like systemd running an application, but with its own OS-install.. it's not meant to do anything init-related
2055 [18:49:19] <FinalX> plus I don't think this is a Debian issue, at all
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2061 [18:50:16] <de-facto> im trying to use the standard debian ways for launching its packages as much as possible inside a docker container
2062 [18:51:18] <de-facto> ...which would be systemd, but thats not an option, then previous sysvinit almost works when invoking the scripts manually, but not always...
2063 [18:51:22] <FinalX> no, you're not
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2066 [18:52:36] <de-facto> ??
2067 [18:52:37] <FinalX> you're not happy with the way a piece of software was designed and you're trying to force it to bend to your will anyway, regardless of the consequences, instead of looking at better alternatives
2068 [18:52:45] <FinalX> then just don't use docker
2069 [18:53:02] <FinalX> you're not *meant* to run anything but 1 main foreground process inside a docker container
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2072 [18:53:14] <FinalX> you're not *meant* to have sysvinit or systemd inside docker
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2074 [18:53:24] <FinalX> and recent debian versions don't even come with sysvinit for a long time now
2075 [18:53:33] <FinalX> it's all systemd, which, like you said, is unavailable
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2077 [18:53:50] <greycat> to be fair, stretch still supports installation and use of sysvinit
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2079 [18:54:04] <FinalX> doesn't mean that packages that come with it all do
2080 [18:54:06] <greycat> but, you know, only in an actual Debian system, not in a docker container
2081 [18:54:18] <de-facto> yes i know all that, im just trying to gain some experience (i dont say i disagree with all those facts)
2082 [18:54:48] <FinalX> really all sounds like some developers here that drank the docker-koolaid and just force everything to be docker because they want it to be docker without actually taking a step back and look at if it's really the right solution for it
2083 [18:55:15] <FinalX> it's not always a good idea to just force everything into docker containers just for the heck of having it in docker
2084 [18:55:32] <de-facto> i have my reasons, i have it running natively already
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2088 [18:56:20] <de-facto> i want the isolation from the host system
2089 [18:57:28] <jelly> use a better containerization system
2090 [18:57:57] <de-facto> systemd nspawn?
2091 [18:58:03] <jmcnaught> i would try using systemd-nspawn before docker
2092 [18:58:13] <jelly> I don't have experience with that one.
2093 [18:59:23] <de-facto> jelly, which one did you think of ?
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2098 [19:03:04] <de-facto> lxc maybe?
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2104 [19:06:18] <jelly> de-facto: just something that's made for persistent, stateful services, unlike docker
2105 [19:06:50] <greycat> Out of curiosity, what *is* docker designed for?
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2108 [19:07:33] <jelly> spawning lots of workers any which one could die and be thrown away without a tear shed
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2112 [19:08:29] <jelly> horizontally scalable cloud doodads, I guess
2113 [19:08:33] <de-facto> initially i came to it because of my CI/CD and it works great for that. running services on it is a bit... difficult sometimes
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2118 [19:09:30] <de-facto> but i like the isolation for security (yet it also causes the problems)
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2120 [19:09:43] <jelly> a CI/CD workflow probably does builds and tests and whatnot and stores actual results elsewhere
2121 [19:09:55] <de-facto> yes exactly
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2123 [19:10:29] <jelly> de-facto: do NOT rely on linux containers (user namespaces, net namespaces) for security.
2124 [19:10:39] <jelly> shit's broken
2125 [19:10:42] <de-facto> i dont, i just want it in addition
2126 [19:11:09] <jelly> consider user ns as chroots with some extra features. chroots can be escaped from.
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2128 [19:11:50] <jelly> noone files CVE for those because there are literally hundreds
2129 [19:11:53] <de-facto> yes i read the CVE's about docker... i just want an addidional layer of isolation if anything comes through a bug in the first layer
2130 [19:12:46] <jelly> I mean kernel functionality (for unprivileged user namespaces) is broken in that regard. I have no idea whether docker itself is extra broken on top of that.
2131 [19:12:50] <de-facto> plus its pretty nice to have things in one image (which is somewhat portable)
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2133 [19:13:24] <jelly> (not to mention questionable practice of using someone else's prebuilt images)
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2138 [19:14:08] <de-facto> thats why i want to build them myself with only relying on debian packages
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2144 [19:16:11] <deadrom> hi
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2147 [19:16:39] <deadrom> xfs_repair gives me "wrong magic number" - what is a magic number?
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2151 [19:17:33] <deadrom> no wait, wrong fs :D
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2173 [19:25:39] <rant> I mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys and now I can't unmount it because /sys is busy.. this doesn't make any sense to me
2174 [19:26:20] <rant> replaced-url
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2178 [19:29:38] <rwp> rant, Try "umount -l /mnt/sys". It's not really a clean solution though. Eventually the next reboot in the future will clean it.
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2181 [19:30:50] <rant> rwp: ah, thanks.. I dont get that.. it was a damn bind.. the bind wasn't in use, the target was
2182 [19:31:11] <rant> I wasn't telling it to umount the target
2183 [19:31:12] <rwp> I agree. I have seen that problem myself before too.
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2216 [19:46:35] <davis> hello
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2218 [19:47:34] <davis> I have a weird problem. I have two similar laptops. Both have a nvidia and builtin video. One works great and the other has problems. I'm running dpkg-query -l side by side to see why one works and the other does not.
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2220 [19:48:08] <davis> on the one whic does not work, I see this entry for rc bumblebee-nvidia
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2222 [19:48:46] <davis> i think the rc is remove, but why does it show up once its removed? apt-get remove bumblebee-nvidia says its not installed.
2223 [19:49:28] <jmcnaught> davis: rc means the package has been removed but not purged, so it still has config files
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2226 [19:49:57] <davis> how do i purge it?
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2228 [19:50:32] <davis> i actually have more than one nvidia package marked as rc
2229 [19:50:34] <jmcnaught> "apt-get purge <packages>" take a look at "man apt-get" if you want to understand it better
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2231 [19:51:44] <davis> many thanks
2232 [19:52:16] <jmcnaught> davis: you might also want to look at replaced-url
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2235 [19:52:39] <davis> fwiw, i gave up trying to get opengl acceleration working on these laptops
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2238 [19:53:54] <jmcnaught> there might be a UEFI/BIOS option to disable optimus and force usage of one of GPUs all the time
2239 [19:54:13] <jmcnaught> anyways good luck, got to go but lots of others here to help
2240 [19:54:53] <davis> unfortunately, neither of these laptops have that option. I looked for that previously. But thanks again though.
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2253 [20:03:43] <deadrom> umm
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2255 [20:03:55] <deadrom> I just issued "su" <- segfault.
2256 [20:03:57] <rant> ok, I have a thumbdrive here I debootstrapped and setup grub on, installed ssh, what do I need to do to ensure the headless machine I plug this into gets on the network via ethernet with dhcp when I boot it with this thumbdrive?
2257 [20:03:59] <deadrom> I'm scared.
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2260 [20:05:36] <rant> would installing network-manager be enough?
2261 [20:05:38] <petn-randall> deadrom: Time to restore from backups ...
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2272 [20:11:04] * rant installs firmware-linux-nonfree just to be sure
2273 [20:11:21] <teclo-> Hi, what LiveCD "distribution" would you recommand to run Debian GNU/Linux stable ?
2274 [20:11:46] <rant> teclo-: there is only one. Debian GNU/Linux
2275 [20:12:05] <jelly> probably a livecd image of actual Debian GNU/Linux stable, ehhhh?
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2278 [20:12:59] <greycat> Is this a trick question?
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2281 [20:13:25] <redd> Is that a trick question?
2282 [20:13:27] <greycat> I mean... I guess there are different Desktop Environment "flavors" of the live images, so maybe he's asking which DE to use?
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2284 [20:13:37] <jelly> well if it's a trick it cught three, er, four idiots so far
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2286 [20:13:54] <rant> jelly: HEY! I resemble that remark!
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2288 [20:14:37] <teclo-> jelly: yes
2289 [20:14:47] <teclo-> jelly: where are the LiveCD images of Debian GNU/Linux then ? :)
2290 [20:15:16] <jelly> !livecd
2291 [20:15:16] <dpkg> A "live CD" (or live system) is an operating system that can boot and run directly from CD. Linux-based examples are Knoppix and Ubuntu. Useful as a rescue CD or for showing off to your geek friends. Debian has its own Live CD (replaced-url
2292 [20:15:29] <jelly> erm.
2293 [20:15:32] <jelly> !debian live
2294 [20:15:32] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from replaced-url
2295 [20:15:46] <jelly> and for some hardware,
2296 [20:15:49] <jelly> !firmware live
2297 [20:15:49] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at replaced-url
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2299 [20:16:39] <dtux> anyone use a live cd/usb permanently (i.e. in a workflow where the os is never installed)??
2300 [20:16:41] <jelly> if your hardware isn't _carefully_ chosen to work 100% with only free software, you might have a better experience with firmware-laden images
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2307 [20:19:31] <teclo-> indeed there's what I need there replaced-url
2308 [20:19:34] <teclo-> thanks :)
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2315 [20:22:17] <jelly> tho now that people run more stuff in VMs, normal images are more useful because emulated hardware typically needs no firrmware bits
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2328 [20:26:43] <deadrom> petn-randall: nah, un. and replugging a usb3 device upset the system. well, deb8, old 3.16 kernel, I REALLY should upgrade
2329 [20:27:08] <deadrom> but what's this: md3 : active (auto-read-only) <- what's with the read-only?
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2332 [20:28:42] <petn-randall> deadrom: That's normal. It only gets set to writeable if you have write access on it.
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2438 [21:29:14] <jhutchins_wk> It's a stupid decision made at the upstream developer level that auto-mounts should be read-only except for root.
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2441 [21:29:48] <jhutchins_wk> deadrom: What I usually do is put an entry either for the device uuid or the /dev/srX path in fstab.
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2443 [21:30:51] <deadrom> jhutchins_wk: actually turs rw on access like petn-randall said so no problem here
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2445 [21:31:28] <jhutchins_wk> Huh. That's new.
2446 [21:31:36] <deadrom> practical question: how can one tag and untag files or directories easily for backup?
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2449 [21:32:03] <jhutchins_wk> So... Many... Answers...
2450 [21:32:20] <jhutchins_wk> deadrom: Take a look at 'man dump'.
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2452 [21:32:50] <jhutchins_wk> deadrom: Pretty much everything else requires either an add list or skip list.
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2454 [21:33:18] <jhutchins_wk> I don't know of anything except dump that honors the dump flag.
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2458 [21:33:55] <jhutchins_wk> rdiff-backup only backs up changes.
2459 [21:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1511
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2462 [21:34:58] <deadrom> jhutchins_wk: yeaaah well. it's a fairly large system with some files that can easily be reacquired while others cant
2463 [21:35:14] <deadrom> I want to limit backup cap for cost reasons mainly
2464 [21:35:59] <jhutchins_wk> deadrom: Can you do it by tree/folder instead of by file?
2465 [21:36:22] <deadrom> to some extent yes
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2470 [21:37:30] <deadrom> no wait, you know what, that's stupid. I'll end up bringing a truckload of housekeeping over me
2471 [21:37:34] <deadrom> full backup or bust
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2473 [21:38:00] <jhutchins_wk> deadrom: There is stuff you want to avoid like /dev
2474 [21:38:05] <jhutchins_wk> !what to back up
2475 [21:38:07] *** Quits: ae-35 (~ae-35@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2476 [21:38:11] <jhutchins_wk> !backup
2477 [21:38:11] <dpkg> A backup is something you should do *ALWAYS*. if you value your sh*t in the least. Otherwise eons of built-up data can go BYE BYE FOREVER one day if you do not; either by HD malfunction, intentional evil by crackers, mischievous glak elves invading your system, or large magnets getting out of hand. Pay the dollars for a tape system or CDR and use <tar> (optionally with bzip2 at lowest compression). See <things to backup>.
2478 [21:38:14] * deadrom checks hdd sweet spot
2479 [21:38:27] <jhutchins_wk> !things to backup
2480 [21:38:27] <dpkg> Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/replaced-url
2481 [21:38:55] *** Parts: Scrutinizer (~Scrutiniz@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
2482 [21:39:07] <deadrom> /var. /var never changes.
2483 [21:39:12] <deadrom> scnr
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2517 [22:08:29] <tw> Immediately after login, when I run `systemctl --user show-environment | grep SHELL` it shows `SHELL=` (as in blank). This is a fairly fresh deb9 install w/ cinnamon DE. How can I get that value populated from the system value for that user (eg, the value returned by getpwnam()->pw_shell)?
2518 [22:09:05] <tw> user's shell is /bin/sh in /etc/passwd
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2524 [22:10:20] <tw> Additionally, in .xsession-errors, there is a line `dbus-update-activation-environment: setting SHELL=`
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2527 [22:11:52] <jhutchins_wk> tw: Out of curiosity what does echo $SHELL return?
2528 [22:12:38] *** Quits: Thedarkb-T60 (~Thedarkb-@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2529 [22:12:40] <jhutchins_wk> tw: ... or env
2530 [22:12:56] *** Quits: rattlebattle79 (~steinar@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
2531 [22:13:16] <tw> it's set, but blank.
2532 [22:13:22] <tw> zero-length string.
2533 [22:13:34] <greycat> Well, that seems relevant, ... how did it get that way?
2534 [22:13:45] <tw> export | grep SHELL -> declare -x SHELL=""
2535 [22:13:51] <greycat> How did you actually login, and how did you get to a place where you can run shell commands?
2536 [22:14:00] <tw> DE login via lightdm
2537 [22:14:24] <tw> then open a terminal via menu.
2538 [22:14:39] <tw> I can try from vt1.
2539 [22:15:01] <greycat> I would expect it to work from a tty1 login, because that's an entirely different set of programs.
2540 [22:15:15] *** Joins: kevinnn (ae4c1654@replaced-ip )
2541 [22:15:17] <tw> And it does from vt1.
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2544 [22:15:30] <kevinnn> Does anyone know how I can totally disable getty?
2545 [22:15:42] <greycat> "What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!"
2546 [22:15:51] <kevinnn> I don't want any logon prompt showing up when my system boots
2547 [22:16:09] <kevinnn> I don't want to be able to switch between tty's with alt keys
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2549 [22:16:20] <greycat> Well, that's two completely different things.
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2551 [22:16:40] <kevinnn> really?
2552 [22:16:53] <kevinnn> switching between ttys isn't related to getty?
2553 [22:17:25] <greycat> Nope.
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2555 [22:17:37] *** Joins: quantum (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2556 [22:17:54] <quantum> # apt-get --recv-keys --keyserver keys.gnupg.net E1F958385BFE2B6E
2557 [22:18:04] <kevinnn> ah, okay well how can I accomplish what I am trying to do?
2558 [22:18:18] <quantum> ... wants dirmngr. But dirmng conflicts with gnupg. How can this be?
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2561 [22:18:57] <tw> kevinnn: I'd remove the switch vt bindings from xmodmap, so once x is up, it doesn't go away.
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2563 [22:19:20] <kevinnn> there's no X installed on my system
2564 [22:19:39] <greycat> kevinnn: I found a web page that suggests the number of virtual consoles is handled by /etc/systemd/logind.conf but I have not tested that
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2567 [22:20:08] <kevinnn> greycat: I have followed that guide too
2568 [22:20:20] <kevinnn> but the login prompt still shows for tty1
2569 [22:21:04] <greycat> well as I said, getty has nothing to do with Linux virtual consoles
2570 [22:21:19] <greycat> if you *also* want to disable gettys, that'll be a separate step
2571 [22:21:27] <tw> what's the point of this exercise? You want to completely disable console access?
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2574 [22:21:31] <kevinnn> right, I understand that now
2575 [22:21:34] *** Quits: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2576 [22:21:42] <kevinnn> yes that is the point
2577 [22:21:42] <greycat> He wants a rock, apparently. A rock that consumes electricity.
2578 [22:21:48] <kevinnn> lol
2579 [22:21:57] <kevinnn> the system can still be accessed via ssh
2580 [22:22:06] <tw> until you have a NIC failure.
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2582 [22:22:17] <kevinnn> that's right essentially
2583 [22:22:24] <tw> Anyway, the direct answer is mask getty@tty1.service
2584 [22:22:28] <tw> in systemd.
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2586 [22:22:48] <kevinnn> I've tried disabling it and that did not work
2587 [22:22:52] <kevinnn> but I will try masking it
2588 [22:23:08] *** Quits: j0z (~uzy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2589 [22:24:09] <somiaj> disable only stops it from being run at boot, which is different than a hook requesting to run it.
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2592 [22:25:00] <greycat> you probably also need to mask getty@.service
2593 [22:25:24] <somiaj> yea, otherwise hitting alt-f2 would cause a hook to run getty@tty2.service
2594 [22:25:31] <greycat> For obvious reasons, I have never attempted this before.
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2597 [22:26:32] <kevinnn> okay masking it didn't help
2598 [22:26:54] <kevinnn> let me try masking that too
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2600 [22:27:03] * jhutchins_wk just discovered console-setup
2601 [22:27:21] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip )
2602 [22:27:27] <jhutchins_wk> Which answers the question "How do I change the font on the virtual consoles".
2603 [22:27:35] <kevinnn> Failed to get properties: Unit name getty@.service is missing the instance name.
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2605 [22:27:45] <kevinnn> so getty@.service doesn't exist...
2606 [22:27:50] <kevinnn> could it be a different name?
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2610 [22:29:18] <kevinnn> systemctl | grep getty returns this:
2611 [22:29:19] <kevinnn> getty@tty1.service loaded active running Getty on tty1 system-getty.slice loaded active active system-getty.slice getty.target
2612 [22:29:19] <somiaj> It is a service in the sense that /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service exists, but the service is a collection of getty@foo.service. So you may need some specific systemd syntax to disable that wildcard service.
2613 [22:29:27] <greycat> That's ... a stumper. "systemctl cat getty@.service" shows it, but "systemctl status getty@.service" doesn't.
2614 [22:29:36] <kevinnn> how is getty@tty1.service running
2615 [22:29:42] <kevinnn> I disabled that
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2617 [22:29:55] <somiaj> disabled or masked?
2618 [22:30:02] <kevinnn> masked
2619 [22:30:13] <somiaj> have you rebooted since then? masking won't stop the current service from running.
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2621 [22:30:23] <kevinnn> yes I have rebooted
2622 [22:30:24] <somiaj> it masks the service, it doesn't also stop it
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2624 [22:31:35] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: I think you're looking for logind, /etc/logind.conf
2625 [22:31:41] <somiaj> seems it is apart of getty.target.wants, so check ls -l /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/
2626 [22:31:49] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: I suspect there's a service in systemd you can disable.
2627 [22:32:07] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: replaced-url
2628 [22:32:24] <kevinnn> jhutchins_wk: that file doesn't exist but this one does /etc/systemd/logind.conf
2629 [22:32:28] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: we covered that part, now he wants to remove the getty so he can't log in at all
2630 [22:32:31] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: /etc/systemd/logind.conf -- though I supspect there is something else going on here due to how core this service is for most people.
2631 [22:32:32] <kevinnn> is that the one you're referring to?
2632 [22:32:53] *** Quits: thinkpad (~thinkpad@replaced-ip ) (Quit: lawl)
2633 [22:32:59] <kevinnn> ls: cannot access '/etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/': No such file or directory
2634 [22:33:05] <kevinnn> somiaj
2635 [22:33:19] *** Parts: galaxie (~galaxie@replaced-ip ) ()
2636 [22:33:20] <kevinnn> that directory doesn't exist :(
2637 [22:33:39] <somiaj> I think you need to 1) remove the link from /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/, and 2) make a link in /etc/systemd/system/getty@.service to /dev/null
2638 [22:33:58] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2639 [22:34:03] <kevinnn> this directory does though /lib/systemd/system/getty.target.wants
2640 [22:34:27] <kevinnn> remove the link from where?
2641 [22:34:31] <somiaj> hmm, then unsure why I have that link there, I don't reacall putting it there. But if you make a link in /etc/systemd/system/getty@.service to /dev/null that should override the system getty@.service with your custom one, which is the /dev/null service that does nothing.
2642 [22:34:50] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: With systemd there's been a tendency for things to move around on the system.
2643 [22:35:05] <jhutchins_wk> somiaj: Upgraded system?
2644 [22:36:04] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: should be a fresh install, but maybe I did something in which systemctl made a local copy of the service in /etc.
2645 [22:36:21] <kevinnn> getty@.service doesn't exist in that folder but getty@tty1.service and getty@tty1.service.d do
2646 [22:36:36] <kevinnn> somiaj: and that is in the /etc/systemd/system
2647 [22:36:41] <somiaj> kevinnn: what version of debian are you running?
2648 [22:36:45] <kevinnn> should I set them to /dev/null
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2650 [22:37:07] <somiaj> kevinnn: are all those linkns pointing to /dev/null?
2651 [22:37:10] <greycat> you're kind of in uncharted waters here... nobody has ever WANTED this before
2652 [22:37:16] <kevinnn> Raspbian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l
2653 [22:37:18] *** Joins: pthomas (32ef4e22@replaced-ip )
2654 [22:37:20] <greycat> *sigh*
2655 [22:37:30] <greycat> well THAT explains half of it ... he's not on Debian
2656 [22:37:34] *** Parts: quantum (~quassel@replaced-ip##) ("##replaced-url
2657 [22:37:47] <kevinnn> getty@tty1.service -> /dev/null
2658 [22:37:54] <kevinnn> that is pointing to null
2659 [22:38:05] <kevinnn> but getty@tty1.service.d is a regular file
2660 [22:38:11] <kevinnn> not a link
2661 [22:38:23] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: That is EXACTLY why we don't support raspian. Things are done differently and are in different places.
2662 [22:38:28] <jhutchins_wk> !raspian
2663 [22:38:28] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
2664 [22:38:39] <greycat> .d had better be a directory
2665 [22:38:41] <somiaj> kevinnn: they are all pointing to /dev/null because you masked the services, that is exactly what masking a service does.
2666 [22:39:19] *** Parts: izh_ (~denis@replaced-ip ) ()
2667 [22:39:29] <kevinnn> oops my bad the .d is a directory
2668 [22:39:43] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: Applying Devian system configuration to a raspian system sounds like an excellent way to brick your pi.
2669 [22:39:44] <kevinnn> okay so if it is masked then why is it still showing?
2670 [22:40:16] *** Joins: bluenemo (~bluenemo@replaced-ip )
2671 [22:40:19] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: and what does "I want to completely disable all logins except ssh" sound like?
2672 [22:40:25] <somiaj> you may want to go ask in systemd channel directly, this is not something that someone normally wants to do. There might be some target or more core issue causing the service to run eventhough it is masked.
2673 [22:40:52] <somiaj> (note there may also be some subtle thing happening because of the wild card service getty@.service and masking not working as we expect it to)
2674 [22:41:11] <kevinnn> somiaj: well darn, I doubt I'll get a response on #systemd
2675 [22:41:51] <somiaj> well you shouldn't be asking here for raspberry pi either, you could try ##linux, but I think #systemd would be the best bet to find someone how actually knows more about the inner workings here (since this is not something most people would want to do)
2676 [22:42:26] <kevinnn> okay thank you all for the pointers, I'll go ask on #systemd
2677 [22:42:33] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
2678 [22:42:41] <kevinnn> I'll let you guys know what I find if I do find anything :)
2679 [22:42:45] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: Here's an answer to that exact quetion. Debian though, see above for why it might not work. replaced-url
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2682 [22:44:16] <somiaj> (that is also for Debian 8, so unsure if systemd has changed for Debian 9, though I do see the autovt@.service)
2683 [22:45:04] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, like I said earlier, systemd is a moving target.
2684 [22:45:16] *** Quits: L1nuxg33k (uid322116@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2685 [22:45:23] <kevinnn> jhutchins_wk: wow
2686 [22:45:28] <kevinnn> that link you posted
2687 [22:45:30] <kevinnn> that worked
2688 [22:45:57] <kevinnn> THANK YOU :)
2689 [22:46:02] <tw> Going back to my weird environment, the dbus activation env comes out of /etc/X11/Xession.d/95dbus_update-activation-env, but I expect SHELL to be set before it gets here by pam session.
2690 [22:46:15] <greycat> so wait, there is a second person on this planet who wanted that?
2691 [22:46:40] <greycat> oh, the other one says "Debian VM" so it's not the same
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2695 [22:47:35] <somiaj> Yea, I guess there could be some security help there, if someone could somehow vnc/spice/etc to the vm. Though for a physical machine, I don't see any gain, if someone has physical access they can get your data if it is not encrypted.
2696 [22:47:36] <kevinnn> so now a bit more of a technical question... when I hit ctrl+alt+del the computer reboots... what service is listening for these keys?
2697 [22:48:02] <kevinnn> and is it possible to disable this service?
2698 [22:48:25] <somiaj> possible yes, though I think this is more likely something in the kernel than a service (just a guess though)
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2701 [22:48:36] <greycat> It *used* to be handled in /etc/inittab under sysvinit ... I have no idea how it's handled now.
2702 [22:48:52] <kevinnn> hmm, you mean I'll have to rebuild the kernel to do this?
2703 [22:48:59] <somiaj> ahh then yea, probably systemd
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2707 [22:49:09] <greycat> from wheezy:
2708 [22:49:10] <greycat> # What to do when CTRL-ALT-DEL is pressed.
2709 [22:49:11] <greycat> ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now
2710 [22:49:23] <kevinnn> from wheezy?
2711 [22:49:29] <kevinnn> where is this config located?
2712 [22:49:36] <greycat> I don't KNOW. That's my point.
2713 [22:49:41] <tw> it isn't. systemd doesn't use that file.
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2715 [22:49:53] <kevinnn> ...
2716 [22:49:55] <kevinnn> hmm
2717 [22:49:58] <jhutchins_wk> kevinnn: If you manage to disable the root vty that might eliminate Ctrl-Alt-Del
2718 [22:50:02] <somiaj> ahh there is a /lib/systemd/system/ctrl-alt-del.target -> reboot.target, so you have to disable that .target.
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2720 [22:50:23] <kevinnn> root vty?
2721 [22:50:30] <somiaj> looks like you can mask that target and it should work.
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2723 [22:50:38] <jhutchins_wk> somiaj: +
2724 [22:50:50] <greycat> somiaj: damn it! I grepped for "ctrl" and "shutdown" in the FILES there and got nothing! I didn't think to grep their NAMES.
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2726 [22:51:23] <greycat> ... oh fuck. I did the greps on wheezy, so obviously that didn't find it.
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2728 [22:51:49] <greycat> yeah, a bit different result on the "grep -i ctrl *" on stretch
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2735 [22:53:16] <kevinnn> systemctl disable ctrl-alt-del.target doesn't print anything
2736 [22:53:22] <kevinnn> that means it didn't work right?
2737 [22:53:50] <greycat> you're really new at this Unix thing, aren't you
2738 [22:53:52] <tw> systemctl mask is different than disable.
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2742 [22:55:13] <kevinnn> okay I tried mask and it did print output
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2745 [22:55:31] <kevinnn> weird that mask would print something but disable wouldn't
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2748 [22:56:34] <kevinnn> okay mask did not work either
2749 [22:56:52] <greycat> did you also *stop* it?
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2754 [22:58:13] <jmcnaught> you might need to run "systemctl daemon-reload" so it knows about the new symlink in /etc…
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2758 [22:59:25] <greycat> well, I guess it's kind of a moot question, because the only way he'd know it "didn't work" is if his system rebooted, and that should stop the service
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2806 [23:36:17] <tw> I did a clean install in a VM and SHELL is being set properly, so it has to be admin error on this system, I just don't know where.
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2808 [23:37:59] <tw> Probably just going to take a quick backup, run automated install, and restore home+packages.
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