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• 6[00:02:10] <ghormoon> hi, I've updated my smokeping host from jessie to stretch (plus updated to testing smokeping .deb, so 2.7.2) and fping probes stopped working, trying with parameter usestdout = true (found comment in souce that since 3.3 fping uses stdout instead of stderr, but jessie had 3.10 anyway), but that doesn't seem to be the trick, what am I missing?
• 7[00:02:41] <aloo_shu> jak2000: personally, I'd aim for the highest free / non-oracle jre available from repo that doesn't show the bug
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• 12[00:07:10] <jak2000> aloo_shu wich non-oracle openjdk?
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• 14[00:08:30] <aloo_shu> yes I think that was the name
• 15[00:09:04] <jak2000> erase all *java *.* files?
• 16[00:09:06] <jak2000> and or?
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• 52[00:23:48] <ghormoon> damn, during experiments I've purged it including historical data :( but at least found out it calls fping -4 so I need to pull in fping from testing too to have that parameter :D
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• 58[00:26:17] <jak2000> i do something: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:webupd8team/java -y sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install oracle-java8-installer
• 59[00:26:21] <jak2000> how to uninstall
• 60[00:27:48] <altker128> sudo apt-get purge orcale-java8-installer
• 61[00:27:58] <altker128> oracle-java8-installer rather
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• 63[00:34:23] <jak2000> E: Unable to locate package orcale-java8-installer
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• 65[00:34:59] <altker128> oracle -- I mispelled it
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• 69[00:36:06] <jak2000> apt-get purge oracle-java8-installer <--- worked :)
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• 194[02:24:15] <ryouma> is there anything in debian that can take an image and find a similar image in a huge fs tree of images? running findimagedupes on each file is all i can think of.
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• 201[02:28:52] <whislock> Similar or exact duplicate?
• 202[02:29:00] <ryouma> similar
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• 204[02:29:23] <whislock> Yeah, computers still have a pretty rough time with the concept of "similar."
• 205[02:29:35] <joepublic> your idea that image operations are performed against images and not on huge fs trees is probably spot-on
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• 218[02:38:57] <morpheus> hi there
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• 225[02:44:41] <watchcat> a repo search on 'duplicate' might turn something up.
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• 228[02:45:53] <phogg> watchcat: it might turn up findimagedupes and libpuzzle-bin, but only after much careful perusing.
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• 236[03:00:31] <Dat> i was on wheezy updated my system to jessie rebooted ended up with a grub prompt
• 237[03:01:15] <Dat> reboot into rescue mode I can still see my data tried to update-grub but now it loads but hangs at booting up the network interface and I can't seem to get past it
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• 239[03:01:23] <Dat> Do I need to re-install?
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• 258[03:24:17] <watchcat> ryouma: find dupes in current directory and all subdirs and display them: findimagedupes -p=/full/path/to/image/viewer -R -- .
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• 266[03:31:29] <karlpinc> Dat: Did you follow the release notes when upgrading?
• 267[03:31:59] <karlpinc> Dat: It also has information on what to do when things go wrong because you didn't follow the upgrade instructions.
• 268[03:32:26] <Dat> hrmmm i will check that
• 269[03:32:29] <Dat> thanks
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• 272[03:34:46] <SerajewelKS> !grubrecover
• 273[03:34:46] <dpkg> See replaced-url
• 274[03:34:48] <SerajewelKS> Dat: also that ^
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• 276[03:35:22] <SerajewelKS> the rescue mode of the debian installer has an option to chroot into your system. once you do that, you can "update-grub" and then "grub-install /dev/whatever"
• 277[03:35:26] <SerajewelKS> that may or may not fix the problem
• 278[03:35:34] <SerajewelKS> but it's usually the first step to fixing grub issues
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• 283[03:40:08] <rant> oh well.. guess I'm glad its after 9pm anyhow if its gonna be this late
• 284[03:40:23] <rant> cause I'd be tempted to go buy a malt right now
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• 287[03:41:59] <watchcat> you know tou want one, rant. think of that rich, creamy, delicious flavor and aroma and texture.
• 288[03:42:10] <rant> heh.. the most amusing lyric in this song to me is the "I'm goin down to hollywood / they're gonna make movies from things they find crawlin round my brain" :P
• 289[03:42:21] <rant> watchcat: yeah. thats what I'm sayin.. beats a f'n beer
• 290[03:42:24] * annadane shoves rant into #debian-offtopic
• 291[03:42:37] * rant blinks
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• 317[03:57:25] <ryouma> watchcat: yeah, not looking to find duplicates. looking to find duplicates of a specific file. i will just script it.
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• 386[05:08:12] <[E]sc> packagekitd systematically has a high CPU usage. how can i fix this?
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• 577[08:07:45] <pingfloyd> !snss
• 578[08:07:45] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 632[09:01:49] <anikras> hid3, I have a public and private keys but I don't remember the password ?
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• 636[09:02:36] <chire> anikras: why you are asking us if you dont remember password?
• 637[09:02:37] <chire> :o
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• 639[09:02:43] <whislock> anikras: Sucks to be you. Generate new keys.
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• 641[09:03:53] <anikras> oh thank you very friendly people here...
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• 645[09:04:46] <whislock> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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• 706[09:53:59] <fuxxy> apache2 issue. virtualhost config here > replaced-url
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• 723[10:09:27] <c|oneman> whats happening in htop when IM clicking things and processes are turning yellow
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• 729[10:16:45] <terra> Guys, is there a 3rd party repo with gtk-2 lightdm-gtk-greeter instead of gtk-3.
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• 785[10:55:04] <IniGit> hi
• 786[10:55:06] <IniGit> I want my luks encrypted partitions not to show up in nautilus. I set noauto,x-gvfs-hide in /etc/fstab but that does not help -- that entry in fstab only fails with luks partitions
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• 841[11:40:41] <jim> hi, tried to install the mailx package... it's not there? asked judd about mailx and mail, no joy
• 842[11:41:07] <Fox> jim: try bsd-mailx
• 843[11:41:32] <jim> Fox, just saw it... thanks :)
• 844[11:41:36] <Fox> yaw
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• 851[11:50:38] <jim> Fox, that was it, thanks :)
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• 854[11:51:41] <jelly> judd: whatprovides mailx
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• 856[11:51:53] <judd> Package mailx in stretch/amd64 is provided by: bsd-mailx, mailutils.
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• 934[12:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1426
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• 936[12:45:02] <BoBeR> Hello
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• 938[12:45:17] <BoBeR> I want to install php5.6-curl on my debain install
• 939[12:45:21] <BoBeR> but I get the following error
• 940[12:45:51] <BoBeR> php5.6-curl : Depends: libcurl3 (>= 7.18.0) but it is not installable
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• 945[12:48:36] <petn-randall> !bat
• 946[12:48:36] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 947[12:49:02] <petn-randall> BoBeR: Can you provide *all* of the info above in a single paste? It will help us to debug the issue.
• 948[12:50:01] <BoBeR> replaced-url
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• 950[12:50:37] <jim> in !bat, what does bat stand for?
• 951[12:51:08] <BoBeR> replaced-url
• 952[12:51:25] <BoBeR> before attempting troubleshooting?
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• 982[13:13:27] <c|oneman> if my ssh session has a limit of 1024 characters for 1 command
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• 984[13:13:38] <c|oneman> where is that setting
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• 1010[13:25:06] <oo_miguel> What do I require to play with OpenCL beside the drivers from NVIDIA? They claim that "OpenCL support is included".
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• 1022[13:29:24] <oo_miguel> I can not install the nvidia-opencl-* packages since I am using the driver from NVIDIA's website
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• 1029[13:31:30] <Psyndrome_> sd
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• 1045[13:37:22] <Psyndrome> sd
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• 1063[13:56:32] <user37> hello
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• 1067[13:57:27] <user37> if i run apt update or apt-get update and a gpg appears, does that stop the update?
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• 1072[13:58:54] <user37> gpg error**
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• 1081[14:04:55] <user37> ultimately im trying to fix nvidia drivers. i did a bunch of things in the process, broke stuff, fixed stuff
• 1082[14:05:08] <user37> but now im wondering if my apt-get update command is even completing
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• 1084[14:06:28] <Psyndrome> hmm im with nvidia drivers i can just confirm they work fine
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• 1086[14:06:54] <Psyndrome> Im just a user not an expert but hey what exactly did you do?
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• 1090[14:09:38] <user37> lots. i was trying to update and it broke x. so i ran apt-get remove --purge nvidia-* and got a message saying nvidia must be disabled in /etc/x11/xorg.conf
• 1091[14:10:09] <user37> so i commented out the section "device" lines and then reinstalled xorg and rebooted
• 1092[14:10:41] <user37> got out of tty finally but now no gpu detected with nvidia-detect
• 1093[14:10:57] <user37> thats the coles notes
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• 1096[14:12:36] <user37> if i uncomment the lines in xorg.conf, stuck in tty mode
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• 1100[14:16:58] <Psyndrome> Sounds like more complicated then what i usually do but i remember having troubles many times before a specially when i dl the driver from nvidia site and stuff like this
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• 1102[14:17:41] <Psyndrome> so i always use just the driver from the package list
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• 1166[14:46:07] <oo_miguel> RTX 2080 is not supported yet by the official packages I'm afraid.
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• 1195[15:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1447
• 1196[15:04:44] <cybercrypto> 1
• 1197[15:04:49] <dvs> 2
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• 1199[15:05:03] <chire> 3
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• 1201[15:05:07] <greycat> π
• 1202[15:05:14] <dvs> you win
• 1203[15:05:37] <chire> что? )
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• 1210[15:08:54] <SanchoPensa> hey, guys!
• 1211[15:08:54] <SanchoPensa> I have just set up NFS but according to all tests, it is not working, no error what so ever, just no exports there, what am I missing?
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• 1215[15:09:40] <greycat> make sure the server has lines in /etc/exports, then run exportfs -a
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• 1218[15:10:09] <greycat> if exports was empty when you booted, then you may have to start some service or other (but I don't remember which one), or reboot
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• 1220[15:10:45] <SanchoPensa> greycat: thanks m8, this is what my exports looks like: replaced-url
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• 1222[15:11:07] <cybercrypto> sorry... I was typing and the number 1 was placed in a wrong term.
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• 1224[15:12:00] <SanchoPensa> greycat: i'll try the windows solution and reboot, brb
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• 1241[15:17:23] <SanchoPensa> greycat: very much to my surprise it worked :D
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• 1243[15:17:30] <SanchoPensa> mounts are there now, thanks, bro!
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• 1246[15:18:09] <greycat> Yeah, there's some service that only gets started if exports is non-empty at boot time, but it's been too long and I don't remember which one it is.
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• 1249[15:19:13] <SanchoPensa> greycat: it might either be portmap or rpcbind...
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• 1275[15:37:54] <Wulf> Hello! replaced-url
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• 1364[16:17:11] <kikadisa> Hello !
• 1365[16:17:18] <kikadisa> Does anyone use ergodox keyboard ?
• 1366[16:17:27] <kikadisa> I got one but can't hit any brackets !
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• 1409[16:40:12] <cybercrypto> kikadisa: sorry, i dont have one of those.
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• 1442[17:01:08] <XC2299> How would I go about upgrading to transmission 2.93+ currently?
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• 1445[17:04:29] <greycat> ,checkbackport transmission
• 1446[17:04:30] <joepublic> ,v transmission
• 1447[17:04:30] <judd> Backporting package transmission in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, stretch-backports.
• 1448[17:04:31] <judd> Package: transmission on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.52-3+nmu2; wheezy-security: 2.52-3+nmu3; jessie: 2.84-0.2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.84-0.2+deb8u1; sid: 2.92-2; stretch: 2.92-2+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.92-2+deb9u1; buster: 2.94-1; sid: 2.94-1
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• 1450[17:04:58] <greycat> there's no existing backport, but one is *possible* according to the bot, so: /msg dpkg simple sid backport
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• 1462[17:09:38] <clinth> i'm getting intermittent 503 errors from varnish on archive.debian.org :\ is this intentional rate limiting? is there anything I can do to prevent this?
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• 1477[17:18:50] <fuxxy> apache2 issue. virtualhost config here > replaced-url
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• 1485[17:21:20] <whislock> *.80 != *:80
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• 1487[17:22:58] <XC2299> Bot directions specify "install the resultant debs". Is there a particular order I should be installing these in or just dpkg -i *.deb or ?
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• 1489[17:23:44] <greycat> all at once is best
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• 1491[17:24:18] <greycat> or at least, all of the ones that you want to install (there may be some optional ones that you prefer to skip)
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• 1498[17:28:26] <XC2299> yay
• 1499[17:28:34] <XC2299> that worked, thanks
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• 1501[17:29:14] <NetTerminalGene> anyone here successfully upgrade to testing (buster) from default debiann installation? (gnome)
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• 1503[17:29:46] <greycat> First of all, "gnome" is not a version of Debian. The current version of Debian is named "stretch", and is currently labeled "stable".
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• 1505[17:30:13] <greycat> I'm sure there are many people here who have upgraded from stable to testing, perhaps even recently, but the support channel for testing is actually on a different network.
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• 1507[17:30:38] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, i stated it because i use default debian desktop environment
• 1508[17:31:02] <greycat> I'm sorry to hear that, but if this is a source of a problem, you should state that, but ideally on the correct support channel.
• 1509[17:31:03] <joepublic> Although I do not use gnome in most cases, I can in fact confirm that I recently upgraded two different test machines from stretch to buster.
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• 1512[17:32:08] <fuxxy> whislock, ahh, knew i borked it up somehow
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• 1516[17:33:14] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, i think i can also ask that question here
• 1517[17:33:33] <NetTerminalGene> joepublic, thanks
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• 1519[17:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1455
• 1520[17:34:15] <greycat> !debian-next
• 1521[17:34:16] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 1524[17:34:55] <NetTerminalGene> it also interest debian stable
• 1525[17:35:23] <greycat> !ask
• 1526[17:35:23] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 1527[17:35:25] <joepublic> arguing about whether testing is offtopic is generally a combination of pointless and annoying.
• 1528[17:36:00] <NetTerminalGene> joepublic, that guy is annoying
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• 1530[17:36:16] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1531[17:36:19] <joepublic> arguing about whether greycat annoys you is likely to resu
• 1532[17:36:22] <joepublic> yep there it is
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• 1534[17:36:40] <greycat> I may be annoying, but I am not having any problems. So, which of us is better off?
• 1535[17:36:57] <whislock> NetTerminalGene: Your issue involves updating to buster. Buster = testing. Testing = offtopic.
• 1536[17:37:22] <NetTerminalGene> whislock, but i use debian stable to upgrade to
• 1537[17:37:23] <greycat> To be fair, he never did say what his actual problem *is*. He initially presented a <poll>.
• 1538[17:38:04] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, actual problem is if they updated successfully
• 1539[17:38:08] <whislock> NetTerminalGene: Okay, so if I start with a Honda, and install Nissan parts in it, it's still a Honda problem?
• 1540[17:38:28] <joepublic> arguing that you left stable to go (wherever) does not make (wherever) suddenly on-topic.
• 1541[17:38:51] <NetTerminalGene> eh. that's enogh. you answer or never answer
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• 1543[17:39:21] <whislock> NetTerminalGene: The moment you -started- an upgrade to buster, you left the stable realm. Take your issue, whatever it is, to the proper forum.
• 1544[17:39:22] <karlpinc> None of this has to do with any particular problem. (And just because something worked at one point with testing does not mean it has not since broken.)
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• 1548[17:41:35] <joepublic> but your question was already answered: Yes, someone has successfully used the unsupported upgrade process to change from version 9 to unsupported testing version buster.
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• 1552[17:43:47] <joepublic> I have successfully installed honda parts on a toyota before; does that count?
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• 1563[17:45:09] <whislock> But I bet you knew not to yell at Honda if things went weird. ;)
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• 1568[17:45:35] <joepublic> If I thought I could have got away with it, why not, right?
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• 1598[18:02:09] <jhutchins_wk> whislock: Testing is not offtopic here.
• 1599[18:02:39] <whislock> Supporting testing is.
• 1600[18:03:01] <jhutchins_wk> whislock: Testing-specific questions are better answered on #debian-next, but generic questions that are not specific are supported.
• 1601[18:03:13] <jhutchins_wk> whislock: It's not off-topic, it's just not as well supported.
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• 1604[18:03:57] <jhutchins_wk> whislock: Also, your auto-brand analogy is not correct, it's more of a model/year difference than manufacturer. Auto brand analogies are more appropriate to different distributions.
• 1605[18:03:58] <whislock> Which doesn't apply in this context.
• 1606[18:04:25] <whislock> I'm afraid if I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd suffer injury.
• 1607[18:04:37] <whislock> But the sentiment is there.
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• 1610[18:05:43] <mackerel449> i don't need xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu for a 2200g (vega 8), right?
• 1611[18:05:49] <fuxxy> attempting to use letsencrypt wildcard certificates. Installed letsencrypt/stable, certbot states 'wildcard domains are not supported'
• 1612[18:06:12] <whislock> fuxxy: I believe a newer certbot is required for wildcard support. That's a fairly recent development.
• 1613[18:06:24] <jelly> ,v letsencrypt
• 1614[18:06:25] <judd> Package: letsencrypt on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 0.10.2-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.10.2-1; stretch-backports: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.28.0-1; sid: 0.28.0-1
• 1615[18:06:35] <whislock> Hey, backports to the rescue.
• 1616[18:06:47] <jelly> dpkg, tell fuxxy about stretch-backports
• 1617[18:07:10] <fuxxy> okay, thanks
• 1618[18:07:12] <beepnboop-> hello, i'm trying to install steam replaced-url
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• 1624[18:09:56] <beepnboop-> also teamspeak too but i cant find it
• 1625[18:10:47] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1626[18:11:03] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: have you considered flatpak?
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• 1628[18:11:21] <beepnboop-> flatpak?
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• 1631[18:11:54] <Tenkawa> teamspeak.... wow thats something i havent heard of in a long long time
• 1632[18:12:08] <fuxxy> /etc/apt/sources.list: "deb replaced-url
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• 1634[18:12:42] <beepnboop-> leave that focus here is on steam
• 1635[18:12:46] <beepnboop-> hello, i'm trying to install steam replaced-url
• 1636[18:13:10] <fuxxy> ahh, further reading says the packages in backports are pinned to 100.
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• 1639[18:13:59] <Tenkawa> umm I see references to ubuntu in there
• 1640[18:14:22] <jelly> fuxxy: you only get upgrades from stable-backports if you installed from stable-backports
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• 1642[18:15:05] <xcel> anyone got any idea of a site with collection 3d printings?
• 1643[18:15:07] <jelly> fuxxy: (which is what the rest of that sentence you just read means)
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• 1646[18:15:48] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: i only mentioned it because the flatpak verison never failed me
• 1647[18:16:03] <beepnboop-> what is flatpak
• 1648[18:16:08] <mackerel449> flatpak.org
• 1649[18:16:18] <jelly> Tenkawa: that's normal.
• 1650[18:16:40] <beepnboop-> brb
• 1651[18:16:41] <mackerel449> basically an app sandbox, it has its own runtimes, etc
• 1652[18:16:42] <Tenkawa> jelly: ok just making sure that wasn't a cross deb
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• 1655[18:17:05] <Tenkawa> jelly: i've seen a lot of repos added inadvertently
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• 1657[18:17:24] <Tenkawa> its still messy
• 1658[18:17:54] *** Joins: ikarosuusi (~karosin@replaced-ip)
• 1659[18:18:10] <ikarosuusi> PROTEST: DEBIAN OFFTOPIC HAS NAZI ADMINISTRATION
• 1660[18:18:11] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 1661[18:18:18] <ikarosuusi> ALL UNINSTALL DEBIAN
• 1662[18:18:23] <ikarosuusi> ITS GOVERNED MY NAZI GOVERNMENT
• 1663[18:18:31] <ikarosuusi> FUCK DEBIAN AND NAZI POLICIES
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• 1665[18:18:37] <whislock> !ops ikarosuusi
• 1666[18:18:37] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: whislock complains about a problem (see above)
• 1667[18:18:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 1668[18:18:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petn-randall
• 1669[18:18:39] *** jelly sets mode: +q *!*@mobile-access-bcee0d-158.dhcp.inet.fi
• 1670[18:18:40] *** petn-randall sets mode: +b *!*@mobile-access-bcee0d-158.dhcp.inet.fi
• 1671[18:18:40] *** ikarosuusi was kicked by petn-randall (you should know better)
• 1672[18:18:40] *** petn-randall sets mode: -o petn-randall
• 1673[18:18:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
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• 1675[18:18:53] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: if you're gonna install it use the one from backports and avoid the gnome-software plugin
• 1676[18:19:03] <beepnboop-> so any idea about that steam?
• 1677[18:19:17] <Tenkawa> what in the world was that
• 1678[18:19:27] <petn-randall> Please ignore the trolls.
• 1679[18:19:34] <Tenkawa> ok
• 1680[18:19:42] <LtL> Tenkawa: teamwork and fast guns ;)
• 1681[18:19:50] <whislock> Yeah, he got double-tapped.
• 1682[18:19:50] <Tenkawa> indeed
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• 1684[18:20:17] * Tenkawa does not miss being an ircop
• 1685[18:20:45] <Tenkawa> hhmm
• 1686[18:20:49] *** Joins: mukmuk (~mukmuk@replaced-ip)
• 1687[18:20:58] <Tenkawa> is the src avail for steam?
• 1688[18:21:09] <Tenkawa> or is that binary only?
• 1689[18:21:18] <mackerel449> does anyone have experience with the 2200G on stretch? i get a kernel panic if i try to restart
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• 1691[18:21:24] <petn-randall> steam is binary only, and thus only in Debian's non-free.
• 1692[18:21:27] <mackerel449> steam is closed source
• 1693[18:21:32] <Tenkawa> darn
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• 1696[18:21:51] <Tenkawa> i was going to recommend trying to relink it
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• 1698[18:22:05] <Tenkawa> time to break out strace and gdb
• 1699[18:23:16] <Tenkawa> I should install steam on here
• 1700[18:23:16] <koollman> steam is easier to run in a chroot env, or equivalent isolation. it requires pretty specific lib versions
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• 1703[18:23:54] <mackerel449> that's why i mentioned flatpak, it never broke for me, probably the cleanest solution
• 1704[18:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1461
• 1705[18:24:19] <Tenkawa> uggh x86 only too
• 1706[18:24:30] <watchcat> steam works ootb for me on stretch. jessie took some fiddling.
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• 1709[18:26:07] <watchcat> but flatpack is probably a better idea for something like steam.
• 1710[18:26:58] <koollman> yes
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• 1714[18:29:42] <beepnboop-> hello, i'm trying to install steam paste.debian.net/hidden/ab40a8dd
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• 1717[18:31:36] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: apt install -t stretch-backports flatpak; flatpak --user remote-add --if-not-exists flathub replaced-url
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• 1742[18:41:40] <beepnboop-> bash: flatpak: command not found
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• 1747[18:43:25] <greycat> you'd have to install it first
• 1748[18:43:45] <beepnboop-> install what?
• 1749[18:43:58] <n4dir> jesus.
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• 1751[18:44:03] <greycat> The command you wish to use, in this case flatpak.
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• 1763[18:45:42] <PinkBellyNagger> lol
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• 1772[18:47:27] <beepnboop-> hahaha..
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• 1780[18:52:19] <beepnboop-> bash: steam: command not found
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• 1782[18:52:30] <beepnboop-> mackerel449,
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• 1797[18:59:26] <beepnboop-> error: app/com.valvesoftware.Steam/x86_64/stable needs a later flatpak version (0.9.0)
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• 1799[19:00:55] <beepnboop-> the only error i see
• 1800[19:01:08] <jhutchins_wk> ,v flatpak
• 1801[19:01:09] <judd> Package: flatpak on amd64 -- stretch-security: 0.8.5-2+deb9u1; jessie-backports: 0.8.9-0+deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.8.9-0+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.0.4-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.0.6-1; sid: 1.0.6-1; experimental: 1.1.1-1
• 1802[19:01:39] <jhutchins_wk> Boy, sez backports right in mackerel449's response.
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• 1804[19:01:58] <blackflow> beepnboop-: why flatpak, tho? I thought steam was installable and working just fine as a regular package?
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• 1806[19:02:31] <jelly> blackflow: their initial question was about the installable one failing after install.
• 1807[19:02:38] <blackflow> oh, didn't see that.
• 1808[19:02:48] <jelly> they only repeated it 3-4 times
• 1809[19:02:53] <jelly> easy to miss
• 1810[19:03:42] <blackflow> yeah I see the paste now
• 1811[19:03:47] <jhutchins_wk> Well, they just pastebinned the error, they didn't post a summary here.
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• 1832[19:13:40] <mackerel449> when will 4.20 appear on backports?
• 1833[19:14:23] <jelly> mackerel449: soon after it appears in buster
• 1834[19:14:31] <jelly> (which might be never)
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• 1837[19:14:56] <mackerel449> i can't boot a 2200G system with the igp firmware installed, it hangs on boot
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• 1840[19:15:32] <jelly> ,kernels
• 1841[19:15:33] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-1-686-pae (4.19.12-1); buster: 4.18.0-3-686 (4.18.20-2); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.3-686 (4.18.20-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
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• 1843[19:15:35] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 1844[19:15:47] <jelly> dpkg, why is linux not in testing
• 1845[19:15:47] <dpkg> linux is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
• 1846[19:16:02] <jelly> > 5 old (needed 5 days)
• 1847[19:16:15] <jelly> you might have 4.19 reasonably soon
• 1848[19:16:17] <jim> hi, is there a way to build a gitlab instance in debian stretch?
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• 1851[19:16:40] <greycat> Have they decided which kernel is going to be final in buster yet? Or is it still in flux?
• 1852[19:16:49] <blackflow> jim: install gitlab omnibus from gitlab's debian repo straight?
• 1853[19:17:05] <blackflow> or do you actually wanna compile from source
• 1854[19:17:26] <blackflow> greycat: I would imagine it's gonna be the LTS one, 4.19.
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• 1856[19:17:34] <jim> blackflow, no, not really
• 1857[19:17:46] <blackflow> unless debian has a kernel team ready to support an EOL'd kernel for the next X years
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• 1859[19:18:06] <jim> if I can just install it and get it working, I'd prefer that
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• 1861[19:18:19] <mackerel449> last time i tried gitlab via apt it took half an hour for the install to fail, i used the docker image after that
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• 1863[19:18:27] <jelly> debian has their own instance at replaced-url
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• 1865[19:18:33] <blackflow> jim: so use the official instructions: replaced-url
• 1866[19:18:38] <joepublic> if you want 4.20 you could downloaded the sources from kernel.org, install the kernel build-deps, and compile it with make -j deb-pkg which makes nice .deb files to install
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• 1868[19:18:49] <jim> blackflow, thanks :)
• 1869[19:19:33] <fly_agaric> hello guys, do you know a good linux traffic shaping script which is good for lanpartys?
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• 1871[19:19:35] <blackflow> jim: word of caution though, it's a very fast moving target. "agile". I curse the day we introduced gitlab into our workflow.
• 1872[19:19:37] <jelly> ,v gitlab
• 1873[19:19:39] <judd> Package: gitlab on amd64 -- stretch-security: 8.13.11+dfsg1-8+deb9u3; stretch-backports/contrib: 10.8.7+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster/contrib: 11.5.5+dfsg-1; sid/contrib: 11.5.5+dfsg-1
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• 1875[19:20:20] <jelly> #alioth topic says salsa.d.o is on 11.6, so no, not running from any (public) packages
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• 1877[19:21:21] <jelly> jim: I guess you can draw conclusions about docker packaging if not even Debian is using it
• 1878[19:21:24] <blackflow> jelly: our omnibus installation is at 11.6
• 1879[19:21:25] <jim> jelly, so you can install gitlab without dealing with the sources.list?
• 1880[19:21:43] <jelly> FIIK
• 1881[19:21:46] <greycat> jim: people who don't run Debian use it, yeah?
• 1882[19:21:59] <jim> I guess so :)
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• 1884[19:22:28] <jim> what is a fiik?
• 1885[19:22:37] <greycat> fucked if I know
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• 1887[19:22:49] <jim> oh ok :)
• 1888[19:22:49] <jelly> so, really, what is it?
• 1889[19:23:33] <blackflow> I thought gitlab was ditched from debian packaging due to it changing so fast. replaced-url
• 1890[19:23:36] <mackerel449> joepublic: is there a meta-package for kernel build-deps?
• 1891[19:23:52] <n4dir> mentions gitolite without knowing if it might be of any use.
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• 1893[19:24:33] <blackflow> so yeah I'd go with official upstream debs instead of debian packaging. frequent CVEs.
• 1894[19:25:46] <joepublic> I just installed build-deps for the most recent kernel I had
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• 1899[19:27:32] <joepublic> maybe something like apt-get build-dep linux-image-$(uname -r)
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• 1901[19:30:32] <mackerel449> joepublic: thanks, that worked
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• 1903[19:32:19] <dvs> holy...
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• 1927[19:44:23] <jelly> blackflow: does omnibus really come with its own postgres, py3, openssl?
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• 1930[19:46:35] <jelly> mackerel449: I did not tell you this, but sometimes you can install (just) the kernel package from experimental.
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• 1934[19:49:20] <blackflow> jelly: and nginx and a megaton of files. in fact, it comes with 75k files, so I have to put my ZFS mounts in sync=disabled mode or else upgrading/installation would take 10 minutes.....
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• 1936[19:50:45] <blackflow> jelly: oh and with runit :)
• 1937[19:51:05] <FinalX> get a (newer nvme) ssd ? :p
• 1938[19:51:07] <jelly> I approve of anything daemontools-compatible.
• 1939[19:51:15] <beepnboop-> hello, i'm trying to install steam paste.debian.net/hidden/ab40a8dd
• 1940[19:51:42] <joepublic> yes, you mentioned that.
• 1941[19:51:47] <jelly> beepnboop-: can you fast forward to the last place you left off?
• 1942[19:51:55] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1943[19:52:03] <jelly> instead of starting from the beginning every half hour?
• 1944[19:52:21] <jelly> !ask
• 1945[19:52:21] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 1946[19:52:38] <jelly> there were some things you "tried to do" IIRC
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• 1949[19:53:00] <greycat> !steam
• 1950[19:53:01] <dpkg> Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. For help with upstream issues, ask #steamlug on irc.freenode.net. replaced-url
• 1951[19:53:12] *** Quits: SpikeHeron (~DutchIngr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1952[19:53:29] <jelly> beepnboop-: also, do you really have a _username_ of "1234"?
• 1953[19:53:32] *** Joins: kapil____ (uid36151@replaced-ip)
• 1954[19:53:33] <beepnboop-> there is no progress jelly
• 1955[19:53:37] <beepnboop-> no
• 1956[19:53:49] <jelly> *** Error in `/home/1234/.steam/ubuntu12_32/steam': free(): invalid pointer: 0xfff3bba0 ***
• 1957[19:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1461
• 1958[19:54:06] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 1959[19:54:13] <jelly> beepnboop-: so it's just HOME that is set to /home/1234?
• 1960[19:54:22] <blackflow> I once knew someone who had purely numeric usernames for clients' files. no idea how that didn't cause more grief than the user was willing to admit :)
• 1961[19:54:33] <beepnboop-> its war
• 1962[19:54:40] <joepublic> given the bash prompt of "@Debian:~$" I suspect the paste has been edited to remove personally identifiable information
• 1963[19:54:49] <beepnboop-> /home/war
• 1964[19:55:03] <jelly> beepnboop-: why does the paste say /home/1234 then?
• 1965[19:55:37] *** Quits: knstn (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: knstn)
• 1966[19:55:45] <greycat> joepublic: and in the process, making it impossible to help
• 1967[19:55:52] <beepnboop-> privacy
• 1968[19:56:14] *** Quits: Administrator_ (~Administr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1969[19:56:55] <joepublic> you don't want people to know that you name is "war" because...?
• 1970[19:57:00] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1971[19:57:11] <beepnboop-> pls stop
• 1972[19:57:17] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1973[19:57:22] <greycat> Your wish, my command.
• 1974[19:57:25] <joepublic> as you wish.
• 1975[19:58:02] *** Joins: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip)
• 1976[19:58:06] <beepnboop-> how do i install steam
• 1977[19:59:08] <bites> the way you tried it, usually.
• 1978[19:59:11] <jelly> beepnboop-: what does "ls -ld ~/.steam/ubuntu12_32/steam" say?
• 1979[19:59:33] <beepnboop-> -rwxr-xr-x 1 war war 4005684 Dec 27 19:02 /home/war/.steam/ubuntu12_32/steam
• 1980[19:59:58] *** Quits: crashhacker (~crashhack@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1981[20:00:45] <jelly> huh, mine's older and different size
• 1982[20:00:55] *** Joins: himcesjf_ (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 1983[20:01:03] <jelly> also, it works
• 1984[20:01:15] <mackerel449> joepublic: in the end i installed these prebuilt packages replaced-url
• 1985[20:01:26] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1986[20:01:32] <joepublic> excellent, mackerel449
• 1987[20:01:32] <beepnboop-> works?
• 1988[20:01:51] <beepnboop-> i've been trying to install steam since 2016 or 2017
• 1989[20:02:48] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: what happened with the flatpak install?
• 1990[20:03:20] <beepnboop-> i uninstalled it cause it didn't work either
• 1991[20:03:38] <annadane> learn how to slow down and fix your problems before trying every available solution
• 1992[20:03:42] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1993[20:03:43] <annadane> this is what #debian is for
• 1994[20:04:05] <annadane> we can tell you what's wrong and how to fix it
• 1995[20:04:05] *** Quits: DieMoesch (~thomas@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1996[20:04:06] <mackerel449> last time you installed the wrong version if you did "sudo apt install -t stretch-backports flatpak" and got the wrong version maybe you didn't have stretch-backports enabled?
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• 1999[20:05:05] <beepnboop-> Skipping: com.valvesoftware.Steam/x86_64/stable is already installed
• 2000[20:05:08] <beepnboop-> huh?
• 2001[20:05:40] <mackerel449> did you check your app tray/whatever if it has an icon?
• 2002[20:05:48] <jelly> beepnboop-: is the right version of flatpak installed now?
• 2003[20:05:52] *** Quits: wnklmnn (~wnklmnn@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2004[20:05:54] <mackerel449> lol
• 2005[20:06:10] <beepnboop-> yes
• 2006[20:06:17] <beepnboop-> non existant
• 2007[20:06:33] <bites> i could reproduce the last few of the error by removing the steam-runtime* directories in .steam/ubuntu12_32/ after creating the steam-runtime directory manually, it downloaded the missing files.
• 2008[20:06:44] <bites> * last few lines
• 2009[20:06:55] <beepnboop-> i did "sudo apt install -t stretch-backports flatpak" so it should be
• 2010[20:07:00] <mackerel449> flatpak --version?
• 2011[20:07:18] <beepnboop-> 104
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• 2013[20:07:55] * joepublic channels vader :: I find you lack of precision... disturbing ::
• 2014[20:08:11] <jhutchins_wk> By all means, delete stuff randomly.
• 2015[20:08:14] <mackerel449> cool, if it said steam is already installed then try "flatpak run com.valvesoftware.Steam" or launch it from your app launcher
• 2016[20:08:19] *** Quits: dasj19 (~dasj19@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2017[20:08:38] *** booyah_ is now known as booyah
• 2018[20:08:57] <beepnboop-> oh you fucking done it, thank you
• 2019[20:09:06] <mackerel449> if there's 2 steam icons uninstall the apt package, you won't need it anymore
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• 2022[20:10:13] <mackerel449> by the way the instructions i gave you all had "--user" in it so when you do "flatpak update" it won't ask for root, you'll have to use --user everytime to install things i think
• 2023[20:10:40] <beepnboop-> so i always need to use this command in order to open steam?
• 2024[20:11:04] <blackflow> shove it in a .desktop launcher
• 2025[20:11:06] *** Quits: zleap (~zleap@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
• 2026[20:11:07] <mackerel449> what DE are you using?
• 2027[20:11:15] <beepnboop-> xfce
• 2028[20:11:19] <mackerel449> it should already have a .desktop file
• 2029[20:11:30] <beepnboop-> it doesnt
• 2030[20:11:40] *** Joins: Burupe (~Burupe@replaced-ip)
• 2031[20:11:42] <beepnboop-> no icon in softwares either
• 2032[20:11:46] *** Quits: hiroshi (~hiroshi@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2033[20:12:00] <annadane> ls .local/share/applications?
• 2034[20:12:03] *** Quits: DieMoesch (~thomas@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2035[20:12:11] <mackerel449> works in GNOME for me
• 2036[20:12:49] <beepnboop-> mimeinfo.cache userapp-wine-RSZL7Y.desktop userapp-Firefox-5RBN7Y.desktop wine
• 2037[20:12:59] <mackerel449> by the way flatpak seems to update based on what system drivers you have, so if something doesnt work after an apt upgrade you should do "flatpak update"
• 2038[20:13:00] *** Quits: Burupe (~Burupe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2039[20:13:18] <annadane> oh, good to know actually, i didn't know that
• 2040[20:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1449
• 2041[20:14:27] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2042[20:14:42] <beepnboop-> looks like it didn't install it right at all
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• 2050[20:18:33] <mackerel449> i dont see flatpak apps in ~/.local/share/applications, they must be somewhere else
• 2051[20:18:44] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: does steam work?
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• 2055[20:20:35] <mackerel449> its in ~/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share/applications, i guess xfce doesnt search there
• 2056[20:20:39] <annadane> sorry, .var/app
• 2057[20:20:53] <annadane> err
• 2058[20:21:01] <annadane> right, what you said. i'm gonna stop talking
• 2059[20:21:02] <blackflow> when I tried a snap on debian , it also didn't install .destop files, had to manually set it all up.
• 2060[20:21:44] <mackerel449> snap probably does the same thing and the DEs are too old on debian
• 2061[20:22:31] <blackflow> well, it's supposed to be "drop-in cross-distro software deployment"... guess it isn't really. no surprises there, tho'.
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• 2064[20:23:16] <annadane> i've heard snaps have installed software in non standard locations and it's not as regulated as flatpaks, but...
• 2065[20:23:35] <annadane> up to the user to become educated in these things
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• 2069[20:25:57] <blackflow> what do you mean non standard? it supposed to be squashfs image files loopback mounted
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• 2073[20:26:50] <blackflow> as for non-regulated, yeah. there already was one case of crypto malware/trojan.
• 2074[20:27:01] <annadane> "i've heard"
• 2075[20:27:05] <annadane> grain of salt, etc
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• 2078[20:27:33] <annadane> flatpaks do tend to be trustworthy, to the extent you can "trust" anything
• 2079[20:27:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
• 2080[20:27:54] *** eir sets mode: -qbo *!*@mobile-access-bcee0d-158.dhcp.inet.fi *!*@mobile-access-bcee0d-158.dhcp.inet.fi eir
• 2081[20:27:58] <blackflow> it's a bit more than hearsay tho' :) replaced-url
• 2082[20:28:16] *** Joins: clemens3_ (~clemens@replaced-ip)
• 2083[20:28:49] <blackflow> oh you mean nonstandard locations....
• 2084[20:28:52] <mackerel449> beepnboop-: you can copy the .desktop files from ~/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share/applications to ~/.local/share/applications and it should appear in xfce's menu, on GNOME this isn't an issue
• 2085[20:29:36] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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• 2087[20:29:44] <annadane> speaking of, what is the general way to edit xfce's menus?
• 2088[20:29:50] <annadane> i guess i can just google that
• 2089[20:30:02] *** Quits: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2090[20:30:11] <annadane> heeeey. replaced-url
• 2091[20:30:17] <annadane> turns out asking the internet works
• 2092[20:30:46] <watchcat> afaik xfce doesn't have a built-in menu editor like mate does. annadane
• 2093[20:30:51] *** Joins: CyberManifest (~CyberMani@replaced-ip)
• 2094[20:31:32] <annadane> that's my experience as well
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• 2097[20:32:00] <annadane> though i do actually really like xfce's menu, it has very sane defaults
• 2098[20:32:11] <blackflow> nice and clean
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• 2101[20:33:24] <joepublic> alacarte works
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• 2123[20:42:09] <ectospasm> I'm trying to run a systemd service once (oneshot), on boot. `systemctl start sw` runs it successfully, here's the sw.service file: replaced-url
• 2124[20:42:28] <ectospasm> I know, I could stuff it in /etc/rc.local, but I was trying to do it the systemd way.
• 2125[20:42:41] *** broseph_ is now known as brospeh
• 2126[20:42:42] <greycat> did you remember to "systemctl enable" it?
• 2127[20:42:43] *** brospeh is now known as broseph
• 2128[20:42:51] <ectospasm> greycat: Yes, it's enabled.
• 2129[20:43:35] <ectospasm> `systemctl status sw` shows it's enabled.
• 2130[20:44:13] <greycat> Hmm, it's supposed to produce sound. Does your sound rely on pulseaudio? Is pulseaudio (or alsa, or whatever your system uses) available at the time this tries to run?
• 2131[20:44:43] <ectospasm> No, it plays through the PC speaker. This device does not have a sound device otherwise.
• 2132[20:45:10] <ectospasm> Like I said, playing the script in the shell works, as well as a manual `systemctl start sw`. Just not on boot.
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• 2135[20:45:45] <ectospasm> Mainly this is to give an audible clue that the router has finished booting.
• 2136[20:46:18] *** Joins: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip)
• 2137[20:46:44] <ectospasm> (it's a Debian [stretch] router, running on an Intel NUC device)
• 2138[20:46:58] <greycat> Check logs. "systemctl status sw" and "journalctl -u sw".
• 2139[20:47:19] <ectospasm> I've got aliases for sc and jc, since the actual commands are too long to type.
• 2140[20:47:29] *** Quits: sphenxes (~sphenxe@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2141[20:48:12] <ectospasm> All I see is
• 2142[20:48:24] <ectospasm> All I see is Starting and Started events in the journal
• 2143[20:48:47] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2144[20:49:08] <greycat> ideally journalctl would show you some error that'll tell you why it failed to work at boot time
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• 2151[20:50:43] <ectospasm> Right, but it doesn't.
• 2152[20:51:12] <ectospasm> It just says "Starting..." and Started..."
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• 2154[20:51:17] <greycat> Well, there're two things. First, did it *TRY* to run at boot? Second, did it *FAIL*?
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• 2156[20:51:30] <greycat> Is either of those "Starting" things from boot time?
• 2157[20:51:35] *** Quits: bn` (~bn`@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2158[20:51:36] <ectospasm> The logs and the status indicate SUCCESS
• 2159[20:51:44] *** Quits: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2160[20:51:49] <ectospasm> greycat: yes, they're at boot time. Lemme verify uptime.
• 2161[20:52:04] <ectospasm> an hour and ten minutes ago
• 2162[20:52:16] <ectospasm> Which is right.
• 2163[20:52:17] <mackerel449> does it use "beep" to make the sound?
• 2164[20:52:22] <ectospasm> mackerel449: yes
• 2165[20:52:42] <ectospasm> OH! I have to load the pc speaker module before I play it.
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• 2189[21:05:41] <uio> Hello! What is the lightest debian?
• 2190[21:05:43] *** Joins: user37 (~user37@replaced-ip)
• 2191[21:06:09] <uio> In terms of LXDE or JWM....
• 2192[21:06:30] <greycat> There is only one Debian. You can install (or not install) any desktop or window manager you want.
• 2193[21:06:32] *** Quits: efee229ddfk (~efee229dd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2194[21:06:47] <greycat> Or any combination of desktops and WMs.
• 2195[21:07:07] <annadane> i guess dwm is "lightest"
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• 2199[21:07:34] <uio> Hmmmm. And how does one go about choosing a Wm and a desktop?
• 2200[21:07:48] <greycat> It's really not clear what the goal is. Define "light". Memory use? CPU use? Learning curve? Similarity to known systems?
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• 2203[21:08:39] <greycat> If you're talking about preferences, it's highly individual. All you can do is try them and see which one(s) you like most.
• 2204[21:08:46] <uio> Okay - Thinkpad X61, 4Gb RAM... currently using Lubuntu, considered Bunsenlabs, but would rather an underived Debian...
• 2205[21:09:02] <joepublic> anything *DE is probably less light than anything *WM, all things being equal (which they aren't) because anything *DE is probably going to include something *WM as one of its components.
• 2206[21:09:04] <uio> Regarding the installation process, is there a default?
• 2207[21:09:24] <greycat> If you just hit Enter like a blind moron, you will end up with GNOME.
• 2208[21:09:40] <uio> greycat: Which is quite heavy, no?
• 2209[21:09:40] <mackerel449> lxde is the default for the install cd
• 2210[21:09:50] <greycat> Beyond that, no, there is no "default". Many of us specifically choose NOT to let the installer put a DE on our systems.
• 2211[21:09:52] <uio> mackerel449: Interesting.
• 2212[21:10:03] <uio> What do you use?
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• 2214[21:10:04] <greycat> mackerel449: untrue.
• 2215[21:10:09] <joepublic> I have more systems without a desktop than with
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• 2217[21:10:20] <mackerel449> oh its xfce my bad
• 2218[21:10:35] <uio> joepublic: I'm a pretty classic computer user with no programmer skills...
• 2219[21:10:53] <greycat> mackerel449: also untrue.
• 2220[21:10:58] <uio> I'm looking for a very light system, but don't what to dive into config files to change simple things.
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• 2222[21:11:16] <joepublic> uio, in my opinion, xfce is both pretty light but also has those features that you might expect it to have.
• 2223[21:11:17] <uio> greycat: What isthe default?
• 2224[21:11:17] <greycat> uio: OK, then I will rule out fvwm, since that is all config file editing.
• 2225[21:11:18] <mackerel449> uio: i use gnome, it's not light tho but i have 16 gigs so it doesn't matter
• 2226[21:11:36] <uio> mackerel449: 16!!!
• 2227[21:11:58] <uio> xcfe... I think I'd sooner use LXDE.
• 2228[21:12:13] <uio> But is there a lighter, but still easy-to-use for people like me?
• 2229[21:12:14] <greycat> uio: Either of the following statements might be true, depending on how you do things and the context: "There is no default." "The default is GNOME."
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• 2232[21:12:35] <uio> Also, would bunsenlabs be faster than Debian-LXDE?
• 2233[21:12:59] <uio> greycat: But there are pre-installed ones, no?
• 2234[21:13:01] <karlpinc> I use xfce and never edit config files. But I don't change much, if anything.
• 2235[21:13:12] <uio> Like jwm isn't there I bet?
• 2236[21:13:41] <greycat> uio: at the end of the installation, you are given a task selection dialog. This is where you select which desktop environment(s) (or none) to install. I always choose "none", but that's just me.
• 2237[21:13:43] <karlpinc> uio: Yup. It's there.
• 2238[21:14:05] <uio> karlpinc: cool.
• 2239[21:14:29] <karlpinc> uio: I always install a minimal system, then install other stuff. You'll want to install a desktop. But you can install more than one and choose one as part of the login process.
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• 2243[21:16:21] <uio> Thanks for your insight. I'll read a bit about DEs and DWs and see what looks good!
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• 2257[21:23:49] <uio> LXQT vs LXDE?
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• 2273[21:30:59] <annadane> hasn't lxqt essentially supplanted lxde? may be misremembering
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• 2281[21:33:36] <joepublic> Wikipedia says that PCMan, author of lxde, was "dissatisfied with" GTK and ported the thing to QT; that initially GTK+ and QT versions will coexist but eventually the GTK version will be dropped.
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• 2288[21:34:29] <joepublic> I've flirted with both, and LXQT seems to be the more feature-complete of the two, arguably making it less lightweight.
• 2289[21:34:30] <annadane> IceWM may also be worth looking into for something super minimal but idk how config heavy it is
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• 2291[21:34:42] <annadane> at a certain point you kind of have to learn to edit config files to run minimal desktops
• 2292[21:35:06] <joepublic> The most minimal of all requires an electron microscope and a very small knife
• 2293[21:35:11] <annadane> granted some are better than others
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• 2295[21:35:58] <blackflow> I love the one you have to recompile to reconfigure .)
• 2296[21:36:16] <annadane> dwm i guess you mean
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• 2300[21:37:26] <blackflow> yah
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• 2302[21:37:48] <blackflow> I mean, speaking of electron microscopes and small knives, that comes pretty close :)
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• 2314[21:44:57] <annadane> i've stopped installing WMs and just use xfce :P
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• 2320[21:48:29] <notenoughcatnip> in my experience, with any machine that has come out in the last 10 years, you're not really gaining a lot of perceived speed improvement when you compare xfce, lxde, lxqt or some of the more complete WMs. if you're going back to something below 512 MB though, then squeezing every last bit makes sense. CPU usage shouldn't differ much between xfce/lxde/lxqt.
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• 2323[21:49:07] <greycat> Another thing to bear in mind: GNOME wants you to have advanced video driver capability, or it blows up.
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• 2327[21:50:22] <uio> Hmmm. True. I'll probably go with LXDE because it is in the default list, and debian support of LXQt is new and so likely less stable....
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• 2335[21:52:27] <notenoughcatnip> advantage of lxde over lxqt for older machines: if you have a low resolution display, it's much easier to set up a minimal theme that saves screen real estate with gtk 2 than it is with qt5 (e.g. Clearlooks Compact theme)
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• 2353[22:00:56] <uio> Is it best to encyrpt disk during instll or after?
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• 2357[22:01:51] <whislock> uio: You can't really encrypt it after.
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• 2359[22:02:33] <beepnboop-> it doesn't appear anywhere mackerel449
• 2360[22:02:33] <uio> whislock: Ah.
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• 2378[22:09:41] <annadane> beepnboop-, then use one of these replaced-url
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• 2384[22:11:01] <karlpinc> uio: I prefer using lvm when encrypting disk. That way I can have a single physical volume (and a separate unencrypted boot partition) encrypted with luks, so I only have to unlock one thing at boot to make multiple logical volumes available.
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• 2387[22:11:42] <uio> karlpinc: Could you point me to a beginner guide on how to do this?
• 2388[22:11:44] <rwp> +1 to what karlpinc said
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• 2390[22:12:29] <annadane> which is an option in the graphical installer
• 2391[22:12:37] <annadane> "encrypted with lvm" or somesuch
• 2392[22:12:39] <karlpinc> uio: I'm afraid I always just stumble through the installer, in expert mode.
• 2393[22:12:56] <uio> karlpinc: Haha, no worries!
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• 2397[22:14:04] <rwp> uio, Which installation process are you using? CD#1 or netinstall or other?
• 2398[22:14:18] <jhutchins_wk> Problem is, most people only run the installer when they get new gear.
• 2399[22:14:43] <rwp> Right. The OS is something people should only ever need to install exactly once. :-)
• 2400[22:14:52] <uio> rwp: I'll be using the netinstall. I get the new machine tomorrow.
• 2401[22:15:10] <uio> Right, but there must be a good guide! I'll look for one on the web...
• 2402[22:15:31] <rwp> I am sure there are good guides available. Probably too many of them.
• 2403[22:15:34] <whislock> uio: Most guides on the web are terrible, to warn you.
• 2404[22:15:44] <annadane> do we have a !guides
• 2405[22:15:46] <annadane> !guides
• 2406[22:15:58] <annadane> "guides are terrible. stop trusting the internet!"
• 2407[22:16:13] <rwp> Too true. Most of them are terrible.
• 2408[22:16:14] <uio> annadane: ?? How do you learn!
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• 2410[22:16:22] <uio> Even for Debian?
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• 2413[22:16:37] <annadane> i mean i'm being slightly facetious but not much
• 2414[22:16:38] <whislock> I'm not saying good guides don't exist. But they're definitely the minority.
• 2415[22:16:48] <rwp> For example I just searched and found a handful immediately that only encrypt /home and nothing else (just like Ubuntu) which I think is a terrible configuration.
• 2416[22:16:49] <whislock> It's more a warning to sanity-check what you find.
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• 2418[22:16:57] <whislock> rwp: You're right, it is.
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• 2420[22:17:12] <whislock> rwp: Though Ubuntu has the same "encrypt the system" options that Debian does.
• 2421[22:17:20] <watchcat> uio: you can use encryptfs to encrypt your ~ and swap after the fact. you can also just create encrypted partitions with cryptsetup any time and mount them wherever you want.
• 2422[22:17:22] <annadane> #debian is good to ask. even the debian wiki can be wrong, which is stupid and annoying. =/
• 2423[22:17:50] <whislock> watchcat: Those aren't the only places that sensitive data can get written to disk in cleartext. Encrypting anything less than the whole system is pointless.
• 2424[22:18:07] <rwp> uio, I think you should encrypt the entire system and use an unencrypted /boot partition. That is most robust and secure.
• 2425[22:18:36] <uio> rwp: But I have no idea how!
• 2426[22:18:51] <karlpinc> uio: When you have a problem go to your distro's support. (Here, the wiki mailing lists....) Then go to the original author of the program. Finally, get advice from random strangers on the internet. :-) Of course there are some quality resources out there -- stackexchange and the arch linux wiki come to mind. But they won't necessarly know about how debian is put together.
• 2427[22:18:53] <rwp> It's an option in the debian-installer menu.
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• 2431[22:19:59] <uio> rwp: Why unencrypted boot?
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• 2434[22:20:13] <karlpinc> uio: If you get all your programs from your linux distro then the distro people have taken the care to make sure it all works together. If you get random stuff from random places you're on your own.
• 2435[22:20:22] <karlpinc> uio: Because the kernel needs to be unencrypted to boot.
• 2436[22:20:42] <annadane> for reference, some guides will happily tell you "to install this program in linux, sudo curl shadyurl.virus | bash"
• 2437[22:20:44] <rwp> Bootstrapping means the BIOS/UEFI boot code needs some place to start which can't be encrypted.
• 2438[22:20:49] <karlpinc> uio: And the boot loader won't unencrypt it.
• 2439[22:21:11] <uio> annadane: Right, I do read the commands!
• 2440[22:21:17] <annadane> my go-to at this point would either be ask #debian directly or dpkg and if dpkg links the wiki it's probably accurate
• 2441[22:21:18] <rwp> So in /boot is the bootstrapping code to ask you the passphrase to decrypt the rest of the system.
• 2442[22:21:23] *** Quits: AreThree (~arethree@replaced-ip) ()
• 2443[22:21:25] <uio> replaced-url
• 2444[22:21:36] *** Joins: kunwon1 (~kunwon1@replaced-ip)
• 2445[22:22:10] <annadane> i'm just saying that it depends on the philosophy on the guide writer, sure, you can install things in debian arbitrarily but do you want to... and some guides can just be outdated
• 2446[22:22:13] <annadane> tl;dr: we need a better wiki
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• 2448[22:22:16] *** Joins: NerdTheThird (~NerdTheTh@replaced-ip)
• 2449[22:22:17] <whislock> uio: You're overcomplicating this.
• 2450[22:22:40] <karlpinc> uio: replaced-url
• 2451[22:22:41] <uio> whislock: How so?
• 2452[22:22:57] <whislock> uio: replaced-url
• 2453[22:23:11] <whislock> uio: As we've been saying, it's automated.
• 2454[22:23:27] <rwp> uio, That looks okay but is an advanced expert way of doing it. I suggest using the debian-installer. I'll walk through a test right now and refresh my memory of it.
• 2455[22:23:51] *** Joins: aaii (~aaii@replaced-ip)
• 2456[22:24:18] <uio> rwp: I'd follow along, but I only get my machine tomorrow! I'm just doing some research before then. Maybe it's best if I come back tomorrow.
• 2457[22:24:20] *** Joins: efee229ddfk (~efee229dd@replaced-ip)
• 2458[22:24:43] <whislock> uio: Please refer to the image link provided.
• 2459[22:25:01] *** Joins: r3 (~arethree@replaced-ip)
• 2460[22:25:39] <uio> whislock: I see, so if I select the guided option, I wipe the disk (ie Windows) and put just Debian?
• 2461[22:25:47] <whislock> Yes.
• 2462[22:25:56] *** Joins: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip)
• 2463[22:25:59] <whislock> And the highlighted option in that screenshot will handle encryption as well.
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• 2465[22:26:10] *** Quits: efee229ddfk2 (~efee229dd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2466[22:26:17] <uio> whislock: Cool!
• 2467[22:26:20] <karlpinc> uio: The other thing to do to make install easy is to use the unoffical install images which include non-free firmware.
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• 2469[22:26:41] <uio> Did you people keep the pre-existing OS?
• 2470[22:26:55] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 2471[22:26:55] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 2472[22:27:02] <uio> karlpinc: Could I just install the non-free extras after?
• 2473[22:27:11] <uio> karlpinc: Cool.
• 2474[22:27:19] <annadane> i mean it matters much more if you're on a laptop
• 2475[22:27:25] <annadane> most people probably don't need it
• 2476[22:27:35] <karlpinc> uio: With regular software, yes. But we're talking firmware. The software that does things like make your ethernet controller work.
• 2477[22:27:38] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2478[22:27:53] <karlpinc> uio: Right, it really tends to matter on laptops.
• 2479[22:27:55] <annadane> operative word "probably" because some people install via wifi which doesn't work without the provided firmware which leads to hair pulling and screaming which leads to a visit to the mental institution
• 2480[22:28:01] <uio> annadane: Right. It's a Thinkpad, but I'm told the firmware support is good...
• 2481[22:28:10] <rwp> I just walked through it. It is very straight forward. I recommend selecting "All files in one partition (good for beginners)". After that everything defaults okay.
• 2482[22:28:12] <annadane> thinkpads are probably the exception
• 2483[22:28:27] <uio> rwp: Cool, thanks for the info.
• 2484[22:28:37] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2485[22:28:51] <rant> well..
• 2486[22:28:54] *** Quits: TriJetScud (~TriJetScu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2487[22:29:00] <uio> annadane: That's why I chose one :)
• 2488[22:29:03] <jhutchins_wk> rwp: Is that an option these days? I don't even look at the defaults, I always use manual partitioning because that's what I want.
• 2489[22:29:07] <rwp> BTW... On laptops I use all files in one partition too. It isn't just for beginners. It's just one of the available options. Good for laptops.
• 2490[22:29:09] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
• 2491[22:29:14] *** Quits: fauweh (~root@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2492[22:29:14] <rant> the everything defaults means you may end up with Gnome3.. which I find disgusting .. far from okay :P
• 2493[22:29:18] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: He checked.
• 2494[22:29:35] <annadane> bow down before the Poettering
• 2495[22:29:45] <uio> rant: Right!
• 2496[22:29:47] <rwp> jhutchins_wk, Yes. It creates a /boot size about 256 or so. I'll see if I can screenshot it and post it.
• 2497[22:30:03] <annadane> actually i'm not sure he has anything to do with gnome, but never mind...
• 2498[22:30:11] *** Joins: fauweh (~root@replaced-ip)
• 2499[22:30:20] * karlpinc always blames Canada
• 2500[22:30:25] <annadane> sorry, just being silly
• 2501[22:30:34] <rant> uio: it will show a list under desktop environments and allow you to choose from one of 7.. my personal recomendation is to chose something other thant Gnome3 :P
• 2502[22:30:56] <uio> rant: I'm going to go for LXDE or LXQt
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• 2504[22:31:03] <rant> sounds good
• 2505[22:31:07] <rwp> uio, If you are guessing then I suggest XFCE as a good system.
• 2506[22:31:13] <annadane> or just don't pick one and add what you want later because those selections will also install a bunch of extraneous programs
• 2507[22:31:14] <uio> Maybe XCFE, but I fear it might be heavy...
• 2508[22:31:34] <rant> uio: I have VMs with all them.. if you wanna know any specifics
• 2509[22:31:37] <uio> rwp: I say that because Xubuntu is way slower that Lubuntu.
• 2510[22:31:40] <annadane> but for a newbie it may be best to go with a provided option
• 2511[22:31:40] <rwp> Nah... It's actually very light weight. But remember, you can change and install and delete anything you feel like later.
• 2512[22:31:49] *** Quits: publio (~publio@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2513[22:31:49] <uio> rwp: Yes, I'd like infos.
• 2514[22:32:10] <rant> uio: you just interested in disk usage or ram or what?
• 2515[22:32:17] <annadane> i like xfce's tasksel but i still just install everything myself because i don't want gimp or synaptic ...
• 2516[22:32:22] <uio> rwp: Which is the lightest on RAM and CPU of LXDE, LXQt and XFCE?
• 2517[22:32:39] <rwp> The default if a specific DE isn't selected is GNOME. It installs task-desktop which pulls in gnome.
• 2518[22:32:46] *** Quits: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2519[22:32:51] <rwp> How much ram do you have?
• 2520[22:33:03] <uio> rwp: I'll be getting a Thinkpad X61 7100 (4Gb RAM, 1.80 GHz)
• 2521[22:33:06] *** Quits: zphds (~sudharsh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2522[22:33:12] <rwp> The lightest is no DE, just start X and use a window manager such as i3 or some such.
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• 2524[22:33:34] *** Joins: nalgeneus (~tnguyen@replaced-ip)
• 2525[22:33:37] <watchcat> +1 annadane. uncheck desktop and later just install xorg, a desktop, and slim
• 2526[22:33:43] <rwp> You can run anything you wish in 4G of ram. The biggest pig is the web browser. Both firefox and chromium are the heavy pigs.
• 2527[22:33:56] <uio> rwp: Oh.
• 2528[22:34:06] <uio> rwp: But the processor is a bit old, no?
• 2529[22:34:07] *** Joins: TriJetScud (~TriJetScu@replaced-ip)
• 2530[22:34:24] <rwp> I am typing this right now on a 2008 model thinkpad. :-)
• 2531[22:34:24] *** Joins: aaii (~aaii@replaced-ip)
• 2532[22:34:42] <annadane> (sorry for talking too much with a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff to the discussion)
• 2533[22:34:44] <uio> rwp: I've been looking for a firefox replacement, but it's hard to find!
• 2534[22:34:55] <Sveta> weboob can be a sane firefox replacement
• 2535[22:35:11] <uio> annadane: I like hearing everyone's opinon :)
• 2536[22:35:20] <whislock> I'm lazy. I use Cinnamon.
• 2537[22:35:37] <whislock> But I also use completely overpowered hardware, so resources aren't an issue.
• 2538[22:35:54] <uio> whislock: Are you the 16Gb person?
• 2539[22:36:00] *** Joins: mwalling_ (mwalling@replaced-ip)
• 2540[22:36:01] <rwp> I set up my 80 year old retired mechanic's wife with Cinamon with the large icons and she really likes it.
• 2541[22:36:06] <uio> rwp: Nice machine! What model?
• 2542[22:36:21] <uio> rwp: Your thinkpad?
• 2543[22:36:23] <whislock> 32GB in my laptop, 128GB in my workstation. I work with a lot of VMs and networking virtual labs.
• 2544[22:36:28] *** Quits: Mad_Hat (~Mad_Hat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2545[22:36:47] <rwp> Mine is an x220. The mechanic's I set up an older T60. Cinamon works great there.
• 2546[22:36:50] *** Joins: Ezrel (~Ezrel@replaced-ip)
• 2547[22:37:03] <uio> rwp: Nice.
• 2548[22:37:16] *** Quits: mwalling (mwalling@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2549[22:37:23] <uio> rwp: How can I find if I need 64 or 32 bit?
• 2550[22:37:27] <rwp> The only problem I really have is getting the heat out of the box. If I compile a kernel it will thermal throttle with the fan at high speed trying to get the heat out.
• 2551[22:37:33] *** Quits: necrose99 (~necrose99@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2552[22:37:36] <whislock> uio: What CPU?
• 2553[22:37:56] <uio> whislock: Intel Core Duo
• 2554[22:38:01] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2555[22:38:10] <rant> uio: well all my VM are only 1GB ram 32GB HDD, and the XFCE one is using 2.9G HDD, 226M ram on startup
• 2556[22:38:15] <rwp> lscpu | grep Flags: | grep --color "\<lm\>"
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• 2558[22:38:37] <rwp> If the flags have lm long mode then it is 64-bit capable. If not then it is 32-bit.
• 2559[22:38:42] <uio> rant: Okay, so I'd be fine with that.
• 2560[22:38:47] <whislock> uio: I think the Core series (not Core 2) were 32-bit.
• 2561[22:38:55] <rwp> 32-bit is okay. No problem. And with 4G of ram there really isn't a need for 64-bits.
• 2562[22:38:55] <altker128> whislock: Core Duo 32b, Core 2 Duo 64b
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• 2564[22:39:02] <altker128> whislock: Check ark.intel.com
• 2565[22:39:03] <whislock> altker128: Just said that.
• 2566[22:39:10] <uio> whislock: Oh, sorry it's core 2
• 2567[22:39:14] <altker128> whislock: Sorry :)
• 2568[22:39:30] *** Joins: jmosco (~jmosco@replaced-ip)
• 2569[22:39:37] <whislock> uio: Then 64-bit. And there's still some benefits to 64 even if you have less than 4GB RAM.
• 2570[22:39:47] <uio> altker128: Thanks!
• 2571[22:39:52] *** Quits: fauweh (~root@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2572[22:39:54] <rwp> Those are mostly all marketing names and doesn't really represent what it has inside.
• 2573[22:39:56] <rant> uio: LXDE/LXQt are 3.0G/180M and 3.1G/182M respectively
• 2574[22:39:57] <uio> whislock: Cool.
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• 2579[22:40:31] <altker128> FYI, running Debian Stretch on a Core-2-Duo laptop for testing out software packages, etc. With an SSD it's quite speedy
• 2580[22:40:35] *** Joins: Essadon (~Essadon@replaced-ip)
• 2581[22:40:51] <whislock> I ran Debian for ages on a Core 2 Quad.
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• 2583[22:40:59] <uio> rant: Nice. Okay. So with 4Gb I should see no difference between XFCE and LXDE
• 2584[22:41:15] <rant> uio: Cinnamon is 3.7G/482M
• 2585[22:41:17] <rwp> +1 on always using an SSD in a laptop. Just for the safety of not having a spinning disk and dropping it.
• 2586[22:41:32] <uio> rant: I know this is Debian, but any idea why ther is such a difference between Xubuntu and Lubuntu?
• 2587[22:41:34] <altker128> uio: I suggest MATE over LXDE or XFCE. It seems much more responsive across the board
• 2588[22:41:37] <whislock> rant: Yeah, it's a fatty.
• 2589[22:41:55] <rwp> Xubuntu is XFCE and Lubuntu is LXDE. As a default installation. No other differences.
• 2590[22:42:06] <uio> rwp: Hmmm.
• 2591[22:42:10] <rant> uio: MATE is 3.1G/215M
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• 2594[22:42:38] <rwp> In Debian the installer allows you to select a DE at installation time. For Ubuntu people thought that was too complicated. Created individual installers with each defaulted.
• 2595[22:42:46] <annadane> i will make a DE with cortana popups...
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• 2598[22:43:05] <watchcat> uio: lxde is definitely more responsive than xfce or mate, which are both about the same in that regard.
• 2599[22:43:07] <altker128> I found XFCE would have odd pauses and LXDE just seemed to lack responsiveness. MATE is fast and RAM usage doesn't creep up much. Web browser will blow through most of the RAM nayway
• 2600[22:43:12] <blackflow> annadane: don't forget Clippy!
• 2601[22:43:46] *** Quits: Meee3333 (~textual@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2602[22:43:54] <uio> Do you all use Firefox?
• 2603[22:44:01] * blackflow does.
• 2604[22:44:03] <Sveta> yes
• 2605[22:44:06] <altker128> Waterfox
• 2606[22:44:06] <watchcat> uio: lxde also has fewer "nice things". i prefer mate but teho.
• 2607[22:44:15] <whislock> Firefox with U2F support enabled.
• 2608[22:44:17] <Sveta> but not all, there's icecat, chromium, midori, uzbl
• 2609[22:44:21] <broseph> I notice on the SDDM screen that there is a dropdown list for different desktop environments. How does one install all the SDDM-compatible desktop environments without losing all of the customizations of the Plasma desktop?
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• 2615[22:45:25] <annadane> er...
• 2616[22:45:36] *** Quits: Ardit (~ard1t@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
• 2617[22:45:36] *** Joins: Ardit (~ard1t@replaced-ip)
• 2618[22:45:39] <annadane> you won't lose the customizations, is the answer
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• 2620[22:46:14] *** Joins: TriJetScud (~TriJetScu@replaced-ip)
• 2621[22:46:30] <uio> But for battery life I'm told that LXDE is still better...
• 2622[22:46:50] <whislock> "I'm told that..."
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• 2624[22:47:17] *** Joins: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 2625[22:47:41] <whislock> uio: Test stuff out, find what works well for you.
• 2626[22:47:50] *** Quits: himcesjf_ (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2627[22:47:58] <whislock> uio: People will often trot out anecdotes and personal biases disguised as "data" to support their choices.
• 2628[22:48:01] <watchcat> i like to go by benchmarks, which can also be deceptive, but at least it's something.
• 2629[22:48:05] *** Joins: lll3N1GmAlll__ (~lll3N1GmA@replaced-ip)
• 2630[22:48:15] <whislock> Lies, damn lies, statistics...
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• 2634[22:49:03] <uio> whislock: lol
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• 2637[22:49:14] <rwp> jhutchins_wk, Here is a screenshot of the encrypted lvm defaults: replaced-url
• 2638[22:50:41] <rwp> That's on a 20G VM image.
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• 2642[22:52:02] <jelly> rwp: that's a 404
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• 2645[22:52:22] <rwp> Oops. It was an emphemeral link. First one to download got it! My bad.
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• 2650[22:54:02] <rwp> I was just being lazy. And playing with the image pastebin service recommended in the topic.
• 2651[22:54:13] <rwp> jhutchins_wk, jelly, replaced-url
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• 2653[22:54:17] <rant> alright, well for future reference I have now made this factoid
• 2654[22:54:22] <rant> !de usage
• 2655[22:54:22] <dpkg> well, de usage is The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M
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• 2666[22:57:34] <rant> might also be nice to list their download size but offhand I'm not sure how to calculate the download size of all installed packages much less account for the fact that you wont ever be actually downloading all that during install as base is on most all media
• 2667[22:57:49] <notenoughcatnip> well, let's just take the data dpkg has given us: let's say I have an old netbook with 2 GB RAM, what difference does it make if my DE uses 180 vs 226 MB? But the difference in usability between xfce vs lxde is somewhat noticeable. just something to take into consideration. if lack of features is no concern, then i'd go plain WM right away. but as someone said, the real bottleneck won't be the de,
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• 2669[22:57:53] *** Quits: firztspawn (~firztspaw@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
• 2670[22:57:55] <notenoughcatnip> but rather the web browser running all sorts of javascript etc.
• 2671[22:58:04] *** Quits: n9nes (~strn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2672[22:58:08] *** Quits: Ilyas (uid43013@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2673[22:58:14] <rwp> rant, Could du /var/cache/apt/archives before and after the download.
• 2674[22:58:36] *** Joins: zphds (~sudharsh@replaced-ip)
• 2675[22:59:05] *** Quits: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2676[22:59:32] *** Quits: quipa (~Maxim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2677[22:59:32] *** Quits: ghost64 (~ghost64@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2678[22:59:42] <rwp> I am using i3 these days and like the tiling window manager aspect of it. But really fvwm has always been my favorite lightweight window manager.
• 2679[22:59:49] *** Joins: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip)
• 2680[22:59:54] <rant> yeah idk if /var/cache/apt/archives would still have the packages after a fresh install.. it probably cleans that
• 2681[22:59:55] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
• 2682[23:00:07] * rwp sits back and waits for the claims of how ugly the default appearance of it is...
• 2683[23:00:36] <rant> and really the VM werent all setup identically.. I setup the Gnome one from installer, the rest I did just a base install then cloned and used task-foo-desktop to install
• 2684[23:01:03] <rwp> rant, Uhm... Do a minium installation. apt-cache clean. Then apt-get install -d -y $foo. Then du /var/cache/apt/archives and see what it downloaded.
• 2685[23:01:27] <rant> yeah I'm not going to remake all my VMs just for this.. I dont care that much..
• 2686[23:01:47] <phd> hi jelly, still up?
• 2687[23:02:53] <annadane> we're not nearly as smart as jelly but you can ask us your questions too...
• 2688[23:03:03] <annadane> /lonely
• 2689[23:03:05] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2690[23:03:12] <phd> lol thnx annadane
• 2691[23:03:22] <rant> notenoughcatnip: my thought and reason I used the DEs own terminal rather than the console to get the data, is cause I figured running one of their own apps would give a better sense of how beefy their apps are
• 2692[23:03:38] <phd> annadane: senior BOFH here, no need for help, but we can talk :)
• 2693[23:03:58] <rant> but you are right that choice of browser is a much larger factor in performance for most end-users
• 2694[23:04:03] <annadane> i can't even begin to help! i can't even understand your acronyms!
• 2695[23:04:11] * annadane jumps out of a window
• 2696[23:04:20] <watchcat> errr, what's your favorite color?
• 2697[23:04:29] <rant> however far too often people who are concerned, want to know the memory footprints of the DE on the ram and hdd..
• 2698[23:04:34] *** Joins: ghost64 (~ghost64@replaced-ip)
• 2699[23:04:41] * phd catches annadane and put him/her to sleep.
• 2700[23:04:45] *** Joins: Ezrel (~Ezrel@replaced-ip)
• 2701[23:04:51] <phd> you need to rest annadane :)
• 2702[23:04:57] *** Parts: kosijo (~kosijo@replaced-ip) ()
• 2703[23:04:58] <whislock> watchcat: Blue. No, yel - Aaagh!
• 2704[23:05:13] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 2705[23:05:42] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2706[23:05:56] <rwp> I think the amount of ram used is more important than the amount of disk it consumes.
• 2707[23:06:30] <altker128> The different DEs are within 10% of each other -- kinda of in the noise
• 2708[23:06:42] <Ezrel> I am getting the error of "libgconf-2.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" when trying to use ./ command
• 2709[23:06:48] <altker128> Load up Firefox and visit some sites...RAM usage will blow up
• 2710[23:07:09] <phd> huh? Ezrel
• 2711[23:07:26] *** Quits: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 2712[23:07:35] <annadane> Ezrel, apt install libgconf-2-4
• 2713[23:07:40] <annadane> er, hang onn
• 2714[23:07:43] <phd> Ezrel: ehat are you doing?
• 2715[23:07:47] *** Quits: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2716[23:07:55] <annadane> yeah, libgconf-2-4
• 2717[23:07:57] <greycat> ,file lib/libgconf-2.so.4
• 2718[23:08:01] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
• 2719[23:08:16] <phd> nice :)
• 2720[23:08:39] <greycat> Ah, it's not in "lib" any more. Feh.
• 2721[23:08:39] <annadane> i'm like 99% sure i've had the same thing but whatever
• 2722[23:08:42] <greycat> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgconf-2.so.4
• 2723[23:09:32] *** Quits: zphds (~sudharsh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2724[23:09:51] <Ezrel> Thanks that solved my problem
• 2725[23:09:52] <greycat> Anyway, if you install programs outside of the packaging system, you are responsible for satisfying their dependencies yourself. In the case of a shared library, it can be either really simple or impossible.
• 2726[23:10:16] <greycat> In this case it was really simple, because the library in question is actually *in* the stable release.
• 2727[23:10:16] <phd> oh noobs
• 2728[23:10:27] <phd> what solved your problem Ezrel ?
• 2729[23:11:06] <Ezrel> apt-get install libgconf-2-4 command
• 2730[23:11:12] <phd> thnx
• 2731[23:11:32] *** Joins: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip)
• 2732[23:11:40] *** Joins: bl4s (~bs@replaced-ip)
• 2733[23:11:57] <bl4s> hi, i have set the below 2 rnds records.
• 2734[23:11:58] <rwp> altker128, Yes. Firefox and Chromium are the biggest pigs in the system. Fortunately one can exit them however. Exiting a DE is logging out.
• 2735[23:12:00] <bl4s> 0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 IN PTR core.ipv6.openlsd.hu.
• 2736[23:12:02] <bl4s> 8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 IN PTR catv.ipv6.openlsd.hu.
• 2737[23:12:05] <bl4s> ::8 works but ::10 not. is there a problem in the syntax? it works for ::1 for some reason
• 2738[23:12:42] *** Joins: zphds (~sudharsh@replaced-ip)
• 2739[23:12:46] <phd> ok bl4s how is that related to debian?
• 2740[23:12:54] *** Quits: kapil____ (uid36151@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2741[23:12:57] *** Quits: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2742[23:13:34] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
• 2743[23:15:09] <whislock> bl4s: And I'm going to assume you're not setting your PTR records to literally those values.
• 2744[23:15:40] *** Quits: Ruebezahl (~Alf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2745[23:15:40] <annadane> i'd not accuse people of "how is it related to debian" unless you know for certain it isn't
• 2746[23:15:45] <phd> whislock: assumption is mother of all fuckups :)
• 2747[23:15:54] <whislock> phd: It was a sarcastic assumption.
• 2748[23:16:13] <phd> just sayin ...
• 2749[23:16:25] *** Quits: Ezrel (~Ezrel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2750[23:16:31] <annadane> if it truly isn't there's ##networking
• 2751[23:16:34] *** Quits: Iwyilorn (~Iwyilorn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 2753[23:17:15] <phd> annadane: I told you, senior BOFH here, with Debian since Potato
• 2754[23:17:24] <annadane> that's fair
• 2755[23:17:43] <annadane> (i don't remember nicknames and still don't know what BOFH is so i lose the game of life...)
• 2756[23:18:06] <bl4s> whislock: those are real values. what do you mean?
• 2757[23:18:20] <phd> annadane: replaced-url
• 2758[23:18:23] <babilen_> annadane: I could quiet you, so you'd have time to look it up ;)
• 2759[23:18:28] <bl4s> phd: this is on bind9 debian
• 2760[23:18:28] <whislock> bl4s: Why would you be setting unroutable IPs as PTR records?
• 2761[23:18:31] *** babilen_ is now known as babilen
• 2762[23:18:37] <rwp> I would guess that the literal values above were appended to the zone SOA name (incorrect language here but I can't remember the correct names for them) and generating undesired combinations.
• 2763[23:19:11] <bl4s> whislock: this is in the rdns file of $ORIGIN d.1.7.0.b.1.f.1.0.7.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.
• 2764[23:19:29] <bl4s> whislock: those are just the endings in the PTR line, both ips assigned to live interfaces
• 2765[23:19:41] *** Joins: FreeSpencer (sid150106@replaced-ip)
• 2766[23:20:25] <phd> ##networking will be better place to solve this problem bl4s
• 2767[23:20:30] <FreeSpencer> anybody having issues accessing replaced-url
• 2768[23:20:35] <rwp> There is also #bind too.
• 2769[23:20:42] <whislock> bl4s: I'm aware of how bind zone files work. The point is that context is important. Give all relevant data up front when you ask in ##networking or #bind.
• 2770[23:20:56] <bl4s> oh okey, ill try there then
• 2771[23:21:52] <rwp> I have been reading reports of snapshot.debian.org being inaccessible the last two days.
• 2772[23:22:15] <annadane> yeah it's not loading but responds to ping
• 2773[23:22:18] <rwp> snapshot.debian.org offline for me right now. 503 Service Unavailable.
• 2774[23:22:35] <rwp> The web UI is up and online. But the archive behind it is not available for downloading package files.
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• 2776[23:22:42] <phd> yap 503 for me too
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• 2779[23:24:12] <phd> replaced-url
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• 2782[23:26:06] <FreeSpencer> Darn, anybody else know of a site where I can download a chromium arm version?
• 2783[23:26:18] *** Quits: woshty (~woshty@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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• 2795[23:30:12] <rwp> FreeSpencer, Of a specific version? Or just any Debian mirror for one of Stable, Testing, Unstable? replaced-url
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• 2817[23:40:44] <FreeSpencer> rwp specific version 67. A more recent build was promoted on the repo and I forgot to hold my version whoops
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• 2820[23:42:06] <rwp> FreeSpencer, I think you need to wait for snapshot to come back online again. Bummer! Good luck!
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• 2826[23:44:42] <FreeSpencer> That’s what I thought thanks!
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• 2841[23:56:09] <altker128> Anyone here ever run Samba in a Linux-container (LXC) ?
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• 2844[23:56:58] <altker128> Basically I'd like to provide an SMB share and for other containers to have access to the storage location as well
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• 2846[23:57:16] <altker128> Container access == via direct access, not via SMB/CIFS
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• 2849[23:58:05] <blackflow> altker128: client or server? I'm guessing client?
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• 2852[23:59:17] <altker128> I guess something like this will work
• 2853[23:59:19] <altker128> replaced-url
• 2854[23:59:25] *** Joins: zphds (~sudharsh@replaced-ip)
• 2855[23:59:38] <altker128> blackflow: Basically I need my containers to access a shared storage pool and to also make that storage pool accessible via SMB
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