People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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3 [00:02:00] <agio> hi, does anyone know how to toggle between hex and ascii search in "hexedit" program?
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5 [00:03:34] <rustbuckett> i do not. i did however just find my kernel config so now i know it was compiled with EFI support
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8 [00:03:42] <mutante> rustbuckett: Tab key?
9 [00:04:13] <rustbuckett> mutante: ?
10 [00:04:15] <mutante> rustbuckett: yea, Tab and then / and it turns into "Ascii string to search"
11 [00:04:19] <agio> mutante: did you mean me?
12 [00:04:31] <mutante> sorry, i meant agio, yes
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14 [00:04:33] <agio> for me <tab> does nothing
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16 [00:04:43] <agio> oh <tab> then / ?
17 [00:04:52] <mutante> yes, / for search after Tab to toggle
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19 [00:05:07] <mutante> Tab: toggle hex/ascii
20 [00:05:20] <agio> ah, so <tab> puts you in the RHS ascii column?
21 [00:05:33] <agio> got it, thanks mutante !
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23 [00:06:33] <mutante> welcome, i actually installed it for this,remembered from the past
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27 [00:07:53] <gp5st> fwiw, the cron deamon requires root ownership AND 644 perms on files in /etc/cron.d and the later wasn't in the man page that I saw :)
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29 [00:08:11] <gp5st> I'll have to see if I can submit a patch for the man page
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37 [00:13:15] <agio> mutante: did you work out how to go to the next search match in hexedit?
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46 [00:16:22] <mutante> agio: Ctrl-S: search forward
47 [00:17:11] <agio> ah, cool, thanks
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250 [02:48:42] <gp5st> Hello. The VCS links are broken here replaced-url
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301 [03:28:49] <Ede|Popede> gp5st: i've seen this on a couple of packages. the top level of the referenced server has the info: replaced-url
302 [03:29:13] <gp5st> Ede|Popede, ah, thanks :)
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307 [03:32:51] <gp5st> I wanted to take a stab at seeing how hard it would be to add an option to dump everything to stdout/stderr instead of mail and syslog (and maybe an option for being more verbose) (and maybe enable -h) :)
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315 [03:39:37] <Ede|Popede> the need to install a mailserver just because of cron always looked kinda strange to me. seems the reason it does this is because it "ALWAYS DID IT SO". and iirc it is even part of a standard, POSIX i think.
316 [03:40:46] <Ede|Popede> but since i usually don't need it, unless i install some server stuff (including webservices) i wouldn't mind cron writing to some logfile i could open as root.
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331 [03:50:51] <gp5st> yeah
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367 [04:19:56] <ryouma> what do i need to do to restart /usr/lib/policykit-1/polkitd without rebooting?
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369 [04:21:43] <jmaher> when i type efibootmgr on my laptop it doesn't produce any output - it just seems to hang... any advice?
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390 [04:37:47] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone
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392 [04:38:52] <rocketmagnet> i've a dualboot system, and in my linux installation i see a windows partition that want to hide (it does not get mounted via /etc/fstab), how to hide a partition with /etc/fstab ?
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396 [04:41:29] <rocketmagnet> the ntfs windows partition don't get mounted but i see in in caja that i want to hide
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410 [04:52:34] <PaddyF> rocketmagnet: maybe replaced-url
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417 [04:59:36] <rocketmagnet> PaddyF: after adding the rules to hide the partition, how to make the changes takes effect ?
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425 [05:09:25] <PaddyF> rocketmagnet: try udevadm control --reload-rules
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445 [05:28:52] <rocketmagnet> PaddyF: how to find out which verions of udev i'm using ?
446 [05:28:59] <rocketmagnet> version
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449 [05:32:55] <PaddyF> rocketmagnet: i use "dpkg -i | grep <package>" but there might be better ways
450 [05:33:06] <PaddyF> sorry, "-l" not "-i"
451 [05:33:55] <rocketmagnet> and there is only reload, no reload-rules :(
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455 [05:38:43] <PaddyF> udevadm control --reload (maybe that one works)
456 [05:39:41] <PaddyF> hmmm, maybe i need more coffee
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474 [05:56:25] <rocketmagnet> PaddyF: i've added a rules: KERNEL=="sda4", ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}="1 but that doesn't change anything :(
475 [05:57:05] <PaddyF> maybe somebody else knows more
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477 [05:57:52] <rocketmagnet> thanks for the tip, i think i'm on the right direction
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483 [06:03:54] <superz> In Debian, where should I store a .tar file in general?
484 [06:04:16] <superz> Just leave it in downloads?
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489 [06:09:48] <BenderRodriguez> superz: what do you mean
490 [06:09:50] <annadane> you can shove things in /tmp if you want, it's really up to you
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493 [06:11:37] <CodeHunter> Does anyone run Wine 3.0 in Debian Stretch? I tried to install Wine and it gives me problems with wine-stable-i386
494 [06:12:22] <CodeHunter> All other dependencies are available but that one.
495 [06:12:31] <annadane> that's in backports iirc
496 [06:12:33] <annadane> ,v wine
497 [06:12:34] <judd> Package: wine on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.4.1-4; jessie: 1.6.2-20; jessie-backports: 1.8.7-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.8.7-2; stretch-backports: 3.0.3-2~bpo9+1; buster: 3.0.3-2; sid: 3.0.4-1; sid: 4.0~rc1-1
498 [06:12:43] <annadane> what "problems"?
499 [06:13:06] <annadane> oh, available depdencies
500 [06:13:09] <CodeHunter> Package wine-stable-i386 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
501 [06:13:10] <CodeHunter> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
502 [06:13:10] <CodeHunter> is only available from another source
503 [06:13:10] <CodeHunter> E: Package 'wine-stable-i386' has no installation candidate
504 [06:13:41] <CodeHunter> DO I need to change the repo data from stretch to stretch-backports?
505 [06:13:53] <annadane> ,v wine-stable-i386
506 [06:13:55] <judd> No package named 'wine-stable-i386' was found in amd64.
507 [06:14:31] <CodeHunter> I followed instructions here: replaced-url
508 [06:14:38] <annadane> i'm not sure how to find the requisite referenced package, maybe someone else knows
509 [06:14:44] <annadane> sorry
510 [06:15:05] <CodeHunter> No worry. You tried.
511 [06:17:40] <annadane> the debian wiki about wine says this replaced-url
512 [06:18:17] <annadane> generally what i do is use aptitude for more detailed dependency information
513 [06:18:33] <annadane> i'm just not sure how to get the "is referred to by another package" information
514 [06:20:38] <CodeHunter> I am trying something based on data from judd. His data says 3.0.4 is in sid so I will try adding sid in repo and see what that does.
515 [06:20:56] <annadane> well, you should not mix sid with debian stable
516 [06:21:05] <CodeHunter> sid 3.0.4-1
517 [06:21:24] <annadane> it's fine to see if it finds it as an installation candidate but don't go installing things from there
518 [06:22:42] <CodeHunter> It is available from there.
519 [06:23:33] <CodeHunter> sid is the same as "Sid". Both totally unstable. lol
520 [06:23:53] <CodeHunter> Great name for the unstable development branch.
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522 [06:27:22] <annadane> CodeHunter, maybe paste what your sources list actually is
523 [06:27:25] <annadane> paste.debian.net
524 [06:28:33] <annadane> i wish other people could answer this but everyone's asleep
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527 [06:34:40] <CodeHunter> sources.list only has 3 items, but the repository list from synaptic is longer. See this image: replaced-url
528 [06:35:31] <CodeHunter> I don't know why some is in green.
529 [06:35:48] <CodeHunter> Lo0gically because they aren
530 [06:35:51] <CodeHunter> 't selected
531 [06:36:13] <annadane> well, idle here until someone smarter answers, is my suggestion. or debian-user@lists.debian.or
532 [06:36:15] <annadane> .org
533 [06:37:14] <CodeHunter> I will be headed horizontal soon and can check in again tomorrow.
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536 [06:38:55] <CyberManifest> Is this purely a Raspbian thing or does it affect Debian too? replaced-url
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620 [08:05:19] <npx> Alright, so, I've got an Alpine Linux installation. I don't have any USB media. I wanna install Debian on it. I have a little UEFI partition and GRUB.
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623 [08:05:46] <npx> Thoughts? I can actually just drive to my office and get a USB key but I'm half drunk and feeling stubborn about this. The line must be drawn here.
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625 [08:07:42] <npx> let's see if the netinst image will fit on my EFI partition.
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646 [08:25:58] <annadane> npx, replaced-url
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655 [08:33:27] <npx> I think I did it without debootstrapping hahah
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657 [08:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1425
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662 [08:38:29] <mosasaur> several programs on my system (vlc, smplayer) cannot find libQt5Core.so.5, this is right after upgrading to buster
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667 [08:39:00] <mosasaur> I mean after dist-upgrade
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672 [08:42:56] <annadane> !debian-next
673 [08:42:56] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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677 [08:50:24] <mosasaur> ah, thanks
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721 [09:17:37] <jacksonraj> replaced-url
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727 [09:26:27] <npx> alright I folded like a cheap suit and just grabbed a USB drive
728 [09:26:33] <npx> but I'm offended by the entirety of it
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730 [09:27:03] <npx> (I got the netinstaller image to boot but I didn't have the firmware image and I was just like, y'know, whatever... I got close enough)
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814 [10:29:45] <agio> hi, does anyone know how to connect adb to an android device?
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822 [10:34:31] <platvoeten> hey folks, i've just installed a fresh copy of debian but i'm trying to get my escape key working inside terminals
823 [10:34:57] <platvoeten> i've noticed that shift+escape does work and switching to a tty also works
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825 [10:35:34] <platvoeten> already tried chaning term variables and keyboard layouts but i'm clueless at this point, anyone has an idea what it could be?
826 [10:36:21] <nkuttler> platvoeten: i would start with xev
827 [10:36:48] <mosasaur> platvoeten: what happens if you run setxkbmap us -print | xkbcomp - $DISPLAY
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829 [10:38:15] <platvoeten> mosasaur: this is the output: replaced-url
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831 [10:39:19] <mosasaur> and the escape key?
832 [10:40:12] <platvoeten> mosasaur: not working :/
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835 [10:41:43] <platvoeten> i'm starting to think it has something to do with my desktop environment (kde), but i didnt change anything about keyboard layouts as this is a fresh install
836 [10:42:16] <platvoeten> because in a tty it works fine
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865 [11:14:16] <npx> So I have a wireless interface configured on a Debian testing system. wpa_supplicant is configured correctly in terms of the ssid and psk, but the interface configuration times out during boot.
866 [11:14:57] <npx> If I then login and do `ifdown wlp58s0;ifup wlp58s0` it'll configure the interface and work
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963 [12:32:16] <finalbeta> Adding something to /etc/hosts in debian doesn't make the system resolve that hos. How can I add an entry to a standard debian to make it resolve a host not in it's dns?
964 [12:33:51] <blackflow> finalbeta: maybe you typo'd it? what did you add exactly?
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967 [12:35:20] <finalbeta> blackflow, wow, how dumb, I ehm, may have reversed the ip with the name. I assumed...
968 [12:35:21] <finalbeta> sry
969 [12:35:56] <blackflow> common mistake, that's why I asked :)
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972 [12:36:42] <PaddyF> IP hostname+domain hostname
973 [12:36:53] <PaddyF> no domain -> "localdomain"
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979 [12:37:53] <blackflow> technically, the third+ column is "alias". you add "hostname" part of your fqdn there for your public IP for detection of local hostname based on IP
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981 [12:38:08] <blackflow> but for names that are not about your system, you don't need the alias
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983 [12:38:29] <PaddyF> perfect
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991 [12:42:42] <rgr> intel hd graphics : it says I have no dpms extension. I have created an xorg.conf that enables dpms but no dice. This means my monitor never turns off or blanks - my gnome set up puts up a black screen but thats not the same thing at all as dpms. How do I enable it? Google is turning up a fat zero.
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1124 [14:12:44] <ogo> I am using xfce with buster. all sort of things are wrong with my wifi and NetworkManager applet which used to be ok in stretch : 1- right now I cannot see other wireless networks in the panel plugin 2-some times I can see other networks but I am not authorized to connect to them. the only would be to login as root 3) my wifi starts only after login. It used to start during startup.
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1131 [14:16:21] <blackflow> !debian-next
1132 [14:16:21] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1210 [14:50:45] <rgr> sorry if someone answered before. But how do I enable dpms on my Debian system for intel HD graphics? I created an xorg.conf with dpms true options but no go.
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1213 [14:51:31] <rgr> using xset dpms I am told there is no dpms server extension.
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1221 [14:54:39] <blackflow> rgr: so why don't you believe there is no dpms server extension, if it says there isn't? :)
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1225 [14:59:18] <rgr> I dont get you. I want to know how to turn dpms on. I cant screen blank.
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1228 [15:01:04] <blackflow> how can you turn on something that isn't there?
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1232 [15:02:12] <rgr> Look, if you don't know what you're talking about please don't bother to reply. I am asking how to enable dpms. dpms is nothing new or magical. It may well be possible to load a required extension. But in the no xorg.conf world thats a little trick.y
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1234 [15:03:38] <blackflow> good luck, then.
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1246 [15:08:18] <K0JIbKA> Hi all! I'm on Debian/Buster at the moment. And there is no access to IRC chanel #debian-next by chance. Whenever I try to see why CPU is so busy hummering with fan and type 'gnome-logs' it refuses to show any results in order to observe current state of the system logs. If I replace the command with 'sudo gnome-logs' it just crashes the log application instead of starting it and I get zero output. Should I report it to 'bugtrack' system? Or how to see m
1247 [15:08:20] <K0JIbKA> y logs properly?
1248 [15:08:41] <blackflow> K0JIbKA: the channel is not on Freenode.
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1250 [15:08:47] <blackflow> !debian-next
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1252 [15:08:48] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1254 [15:09:03] <K0JIbKA> blackflow: neither there
1255 [15:09:15] *** Parts: Nadiamak (~InterSys@replaced-ip ) ()
1256 [15:09:51] <K0JIbKA> blackflow: by the way I can't connect to #debian as well using irc.oftc.net
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1258 [15:10:39] <blackflow> K0JIbKA: did you read the message as to why you can't? are you registered against nickserver?
1259 [15:10:42] <blackflow> *with the
1260 [15:12:18] <K0JIbKA> blackflow: no and yes
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1262 [15:13:07] <blackflow> What's the exact message you get back, when you attempt to /join #debian (or debian-next)?
1263 [15:13:21] <K0JIbKA> if only 'You are now identified for KOJIbKA' counts
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1265 [15:15:12] <K0JIbKA> blackflow: well no message at all. Chanels are either accessible or not. So the only one I can communicate to is this one. On Debian subject I mean.
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1269 [15:17:41] <botsec0> hi
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1271 [15:17:58] <botsec0> easy way to use hexchat + tor ?
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1273 [15:18:22] <blackflow> K0JIbKA: there always is a message
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1275 [15:19:39] <blackflow> K0JIbKA: meanwhile, I don't know what gnome-logs is, but you can always look at your process table and resource usage, with eg. top from command line. program htop is often recommended too.
1276 [15:19:54] <noln> botsec0, check out channel #hexchat
1277 [15:20:29] <botsec0> thanks noln i do
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1279 [15:21:10] <noln> K0JIbKA, what chat program are you using
1280 [15:21:35] <K0JIbKA> noln: Polari
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1282 [15:22:11] <botsec0> hexchat i want to use over tor
1283 [15:22:43] <K0JIbKA> noln: runs just fine but I can't establish several chanels connection so far
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1286 [15:23:25] <botsec0> not working for me tried few ways
1287 [15:24:10] <noln> K0JIbKA, you may find better support in polari's channel, see replaced-url
1288 [15:24:45] <K0JIbKA> noln: yes, sure
1289 [15:24:53] <K0JIbKA> thank you
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1291 [15:25:42] <noln> nah thank blackflow who tried to help even without essential information
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1307 [15:33:00] <PaddyF> after installing keepass2 i added an account and wonder now what you need to do so that chrome loads the stored password
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1309 [15:33:40] <blackflow> noln: well I asked for essential information (message seen when attempting to join a chan), never got a reply.
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1316 [15:35:55] <blackflow> PaddyF: I think you need an extension to integrate keepassx with the browser, I don't think it's possible otherwise.
1317 [15:36:19] <blackflow> PaddyF: quick googling suggests "KeePassXC-Browser" extension
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1319 [15:36:58] <blackflow> (though that's for keepassxc, which is a fork as keepassx is no more)
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1325 [15:40:28] <botsec0> easy way to use hexchat over tor
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1344 [15:54:27] <Katnip> its in network setup and proxy server :)
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1350 [15:57:38] <nmschulte> I'm unable to connect to two bluetooth devices with A2DP profile at once. When I connect a second device, it always connects with the HSP/FSP (lower quality; "voice") profile, not the A2DP profile.
1351 [15:57:44] <PaddyF> all this password saving and managing stuff sucks
1352 [15:58:01] <nmschulte> Is anyone able to do this successfully? I am using PulseAudio.
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1355 [15:58:13] <nmschulte> PaddyF: at least it works.
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1359 [16:00:57] <watchcat> PaddyF: simple encrypted text file works for me.
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1361 [16:01:36] <nmschulte> watchcat: do you avoid authentication with your mobile device then?
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1367 [16:04:13] <watchcat> nmschulte: no.
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1376 [16:09:04] <nmschulte> watchcat: that's my current hurdle. I like KeePass, but need to find a good mechanism to synchronize my databases. Giving the encrypted file to 3rd party is silly.
1377 [16:09:25] <nmschulte> I simply avoid authenticating to online services (minus elgoog) on my mobile.
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1382 [16:12:41] <watchcat> nmschulte: i just cooy the encrypted text file wherever i might need it and decrypt it there. you can use gpg, or openkeychain on mobile. or even 7zip if you're not too worried about getting hacked.
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1395 [16:17:04] <watchcat> (7zip can do aes256 encryption, but i'm not sure how well it's implemented.)
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1398 [16:18:50] <bites> or use vim with blowfish2 encryption.
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1404 [16:19:45] <blackflow> passwords alone are insufficient. you can encrypt with a bestests ever super post quantum cipher on your end..... only to discover the site you're using it on, is hashing with unsalted md5, and got breached.
1405 [16:19:54] <blackflow> without 2FA, no password is ever sufficient.
1406 [16:20:15] <nmschulte> watchcat: do you tick the "remember me" box then?
1407 [16:20:45] <nmschulte> regularly changing your password is a way to combat blackflow's concerns, and using a different password per party
1408 [16:20:57] <blackflow> nmschulte: according to research, it is not.
1409 [16:21:05] <nmschulte> I use 2fa for certain things I'm concerned with (source codes, emails)
1410 [16:21:08] <watchcat> nmschulte: i usually have cookies disabled, so no.
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1412 [16:22:32] <blackflow> passwords must never be reused, true. but when talking about encrpyting your password store? it's false sense of security without considering the other side that is storing those passwords.
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1415 [16:23:11] <blackflow> personally I use keepassxc for a few company-critical things (of course + 2FA), and for everything else I find Firefox' password store sufficient.
1416 [16:23:14] <watchcat> i'm not giving my phone# to any site. if they offere email 2fa i'll do it.
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1418 [16:23:32] <blackflow> email 2fa? that's as bad as SMS based 2FA.
1419 [16:23:56] <blackflow> the only 2FA is teh one that doesn't need anything to fly over wires, eg. OLTP
1420 [16:24:19] <watchcat> giving your phone number is even worse than no 2fa. and it's usually a scam.
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1422 [16:24:34] <bites> it's still a good idea to keep your passwords encrypted.
1423 [16:24:49] <blackflow> sure.
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1430 [16:29:31] <blackflow> and lol autocorrect.... s/OLTP/OTP/ (one time pass is what I meant)
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1459 [16:49:47] <nmschulte> watchcat: one time pad
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1462 [16:50:23] <nmschulte> blackflow's got it -- my bad
1463 [16:51:19] <nmschulte> s/pad/password -- TOTP
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1548 [17:52:03] <Fahrradkette> hi everybody. Are there dotnetcore packages similar to replaced-url
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1633 [18:41:17] <storrgie> is there a way to completely hide grub but still have plymouth be in effect? (I'm not a fan of the grub splash, would like to just see the plymouth luks prompt)
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1637 [18:43:20] <tuxayo> Hi :), is there a way to donate to fund directly packaging work?
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1639 [18:44:48] <tuxayo> I'm at an install party and I'm trying to direct someone to donate in a way that will the most contribute to make their Debian to work well in the future :)
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1646 [18:49:59] <blackflow> storrgie: run `info grub` and search for GRUB_HIDDEN
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1701 [19:31:49] <petn-randall> storrgie: Just set grub timeout to something very low. /etc/default/grub
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1703 [19:32:13] <petn-randall> or what blackflow said
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1706 [19:33:09] <petn-randall> tuxayo: replaced-url
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1708 [19:33:18] <rwp> tuxayo, Most Debian packages are created by volunteers without any money to them ever.
1709 [19:33:29] <rwp> tuxayo, But if you want to support the infrastructure that makes it all possible: replaced-url
1710 [19:33:48] <petn-randall> tuxayo: AFAIK there's no way to direct funds to something specific. Also note that all packaging is done by volunteers, so there's no way to pay them.
1711 [19:35:04] <petn-randall> tuxayo: You could in theory pay Linux companies with DDs in them to do specific work, but that would simply be contract work.
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1730 [19:45:44] <rustbuckett> hello all. is it possible to switch from grub to grub-efi without reinstall?
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1733 [19:47:35] <rwp> rustbuckett, To be specifically clear you mean from grub-pc to grub-efi? That depends on your partition layout. Maybe yes and maybe no.
1734 [19:48:27] <rwp> There is no practical advantage to a booting system to change from one to another. So if it is booting then I suggest not changing anything.
1735 [19:48:46] <rwp> If you are trying to dual boot however then all of the systems must use the same, one or the other.
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1737 [19:51:36] <rustbuckett> i am trying to dual boot Debian 9 and Windows 10. afaik, Debian is pc/mbr and Windows is efi/gpt.
1738 [19:51:48] <rustbuckett> i think i said that right... does that make sense?
1739 [19:51:58] <rwp> Ah... yes... You fall into the dual boot needing to both be EFI. :-(
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1741 [19:52:48] <rwp> *If and only if* you have the ESP (EFI Service Partition) available then you can switch Debian to EFI booting. That's my understanding.
1742 [19:53:18] <rwp> If Windows is already booting EFI then I think that implies that you do. So you should be able to use it. I am not an expert on that topic.
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1745 [19:53:34] <rwp> At one time I found this reference useful to bookmark for my own needs. replaced-url
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1751 [19:55:14] <rwp> One detail I do know is that one must have grub-efi-amd64 installed *instead of* grub-pc. It will remove grub-pc and install the grub-efi modules. Then grub-install will be an x86_64-efi install instead of a grub-pc legacy install.
1752 [19:56:10] <rwp> I recommend having a bootable debian-installer when working on this to be used as a rescue boot system. The debian-installer makes an excellent rescue boot tool.
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1754 [19:57:02] <rwp> In the debian-installer boot menu is Advanced, and under that Rescue. That will allow you to boot the installer and chroot into the installed system if the installed system does not boot.
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1757 [19:57:31] <rwp> The questions asked make you think it might be installing but in the upper corner it says "Rescue" and if it says that then you know you are in rescue mode.
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1761 [19:58:50] <rwp> Hope that helps. That is about the edge of my knowledge. My systems have either been all legacy or all UEFI only and without the ability to do both/either it has for me always been one or the other.
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1763 [20:00:46] <rustbuckett> When I installed Windows and Debian, I didn't even understand that that was a choice and/or potentially a problem.
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1766 [20:01:28] <rwp> It's one of those hidden snags that has caught all of us at one time or another.
1767 [20:01:53] <rustbuckett> You've given me new direction for my "research" as it were. Apparently it is possible, though possibly a little dicey, to switch from legacy grub to EFI
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1769 [20:02:25] <rwp> The Debian installation as a whole doesn't care or know if it is Legacy or UEFI booting. That is only the bootloader part of things.
1770 [20:02:59] <rwp> So it seems to me that switching from one to the other should be possible if there is an ESP partition to hold the EFI.
1771 [20:03:00] <rustbuckett> Yeah. And now I know. Hopefully I can retrofit my installs to happily comingle and not have to bring up the BIOS boot menu every time I reboot.
1772 [20:03:55] <rustbuckett> Well, it looks like to have switch to GPT also.
1773 [20:04:33] <rwp> On the other side of things one needs a bios_boot partition. Do you have one of those? My brain is still a little fuzzy this morning. But it may be that you will need to destroy it and recreate it as the ESP. Maybe. Not sure. Don't trust my fuzzy brain thoughts on it.
1774 [20:04:54] <rustbuckett> I've found some resources with instructions for conversion. I'm looking into that now.
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1776 [20:06:04] <rustbuckett> It looks like I could also use rEFInd as a boot manager that would hand off to the separate boot loaders
1777 [20:06:35] <rustbuckett> Anyway, thanks for your help. The research continues! lol!
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1779 [20:07:05] <rwp> Good luck!
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1909 [21:31:40] <mortn> my virtual gateway running debian won't load the nf_conntrack_max values i've defined in /etc/sysctl.d/nf_conntrack.conf
1910 [21:32:28] <mortn> anyone have an idea why?
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1920 [21:38:08] <jhutchins> mortn_: Syntax error? Anything in dmesg?
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1922 [21:38:58] <mortn_> it's kind of like it doesn't see the values - i'll just try to rename it 's/_/-/'
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1956 [22:00:34] <mortn_> turns out when using nf_conntrack you actually have to put "nf_conntrack" into /etc/modules for systemd-sysctl to populate the paths under /proc/sys/net/netfiles/nf_conntrack_*
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1981 [22:17:40] <tuxayo> rwp: petn-randall: thanks for your answers.
1982 [22:17:40] <tuxayo> «all packaging is done by volunteers, so there's no way to pay them.»
1983 [22:17:40] <tuxayo> « You could in theory pay Linux companies with DDs in them to do specific work, but that would simply be contract work.»
1984 [22:17:50] <victorqueiroz> I'm using debian sid, is it possible to use LTS kernel (the most stablest version, if possibl)
1985 [22:17:56] <tuxayo> That works best for server and dev stuff but much less companies are selling services on desktops Debian and even less for general public use. So I was wondering if there were package maintainers or developers (working on the installer, upgrade workflow, etc) willing to work (paid work) at least part time on Debian.
1986 [22:17:56] <tuxayo> And if there are, where to search for them?
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1988 [22:19:02] <tuxayo> An example about dev/server stuff is Ondřej Surý
1989 [22:19:02] <tuxayo> replaced-url
1990 [22:19:02] <tuxayo> replaced-url
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2003 [22:23:42] <n4dir> replaced-url
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2007 [22:24:03] <n4dir> tuxayo: ^^
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2015 [22:27:13] <trysten> hello friends! does anyone recall where some docs are for a users homedir structure? I'm wondering the difference between ~/.bin and ~/.local/bin
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2019 [22:28:56] <n4dir> i think default is ~/bin. wild guessing: might be that .local/bin is usefull for stuff which is more than just a script file (or other simple executable)
2020 [22:29:20] <n4dir> doesn't answer your question about the official docs, or course.
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2026 [22:33:17] <trysten> still helps, thanks n4dir
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2030 [22:35:05] <trysten> yeah, I did mean to type ~/bin rather than ~/.bin -- I've been using it since I saw it in the default ~/.bashrc but I saw something referencing ~/.local/bin recently. I'll check back if I find anything
2031 [22:35:52] <n4dir> i did a quick search, but all info i get explain what "home" is supposed to contain, not it's subdirectories.
2032 [22:36:26] <n4dir> debian adds ~/bin to the users PATH via ~/.profile (you probably know already)
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2034 [22:36:42] <n4dir> in addition i hardly ever hear someone mention .local/bin
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2039 [22:38:04] <j0seph> quick, someone suppress my urge to change from stable to sid!
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2041 [22:38:20] <n4dir> do a sid chroot.
2042 [22:38:30] <n4dir> or an emulator. or such.
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2050 [22:41:19] <j0seph> n4dir: sorry, what would a sid chroot do?
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2052 [22:41:28] <j0seph> not being sarcastic, i'm unaware.
2053 [22:41:33] <n4dir> !chroot
2054 [22:42:08] <n4dir> damnit. you run a debian stable. you create a chroot with debootstrap. You can enter the chroot debian with "chroot /media/debian_chroot"
2055 [22:42:36] <n4dir> there you have your cli debian sid. if you want to know the details ask dpkg -> /msg dpkg chroot
2056 [22:42:42] <n4dir> same for debootstrap. ok?
2057 [22:42:54] <j0seph> okay, thanks :)
2058 [22:43:24] <n4dir> similar to an emulator like qemu, kvm, virtualbox, but uses less system power.
2059 [22:43:43] <rwp> trysten, n4dir, Just recently a bash change came through adding .local/bin to PATH to support Python virtual environments IIRC. I'll go look for the bug number...
2060 [22:44:07] <n4dir> if after half a year, or such, you think you can handle sid, and, first of all, if you still think you really want it, you can still upgrade.
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2062 [22:45:34] <rwp> j0seph, My Sid machine after the last kernel no longer boots. Does that help to suppress it?
2063 [22:46:07] <j0seph> i'll admit, what I REALLY want is Python 3.6+ and GNOME 3.26 from sid. I know it's not the latest gnome, but it has one or two of the features i'd like
2064 [22:46:16] <n4dir> upgrading each and every day can also get a bit old after a while.
2065 [22:46:17] <j0seph> rwp: yes it does. thank you.
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2068 [22:46:37] <rwp> I was able to boot a kernel I had saved from July 2017. But X won't load with it.
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2071 [22:47:01] <rwp> I still need to dig into it and debug what is happening with it.
2072 [22:47:28] <rwp> I would run Stable but the reason I am running Sid is so that I can find and report bugs and fix some of them before they hit Stable and I suffer for two years with them.
2073 [22:47:38] <n4dir> j0seph: back in the days i made a dual boot, stable and sid. Thought: let's see how long it will take me to break it (bad news though: it never did)
2074 [22:47:46] <rwp> I can tell you that there are a lot of bugs that come through Sid on a regular basis.
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2076 [22:48:45] <j0seph> n4dir: true enough. i came from arch linux a while ago and i got tired of the constant upgrading. at the same time, some of the recent versions of some software has features i'd like. that's my dilemma, haha
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2078 [22:49:16] <n4dir> i'd say try dual boot then (or a different PC/laptop, if you have one)
2079 [22:49:50] <rwp> I suggest two completely separate systems. One Stable that you can always use because it is working. One Sid Unstable that can break when it does.
2080 [22:50:08] <n4dir> doesn't help with the constant upgrade problem, but with having a look at newer software (and at sid in general)
2081 [22:50:32] <n4dir> the bad thing about breakage: most of the times it happens when you really don't need it :-)
2082 [22:50:35] <j0seph> i have some really, REALLY old eMachines laptop from so many years ago.. it still has windows vista on it, haha
2083 [22:50:36] <rwp> Old laptops are cheap and mostly available. I mostly run on old laptops. Typing on a Thinkpad x220 dated 12/2008 right now.
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2085 [22:50:47] <rwp> The best keyboard of any of my systems however.
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2087 [22:51:03] <rwp> Sid is a constant daily churn of endless upgrades.
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2089 [22:51:21] <n4dir> people know that i fool around, so they give me their (really) old laptops and PC's for free. lucky me.
2090 [22:51:41] <n4dir> you can easily upgrade twice a day.
2091 [22:51:51] <rwp> Yes. Even better! They want the old hardware to go to a good home. You provide it. Win-Win!
2092 [22:51:59] <n4dir> yup.
2093 [22:52:14] <j0seph> Thinkpads are super chunky! you could kill someone with that!
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2095 [22:53:00] <cryptodan_mobile> n4dir: I used to do that till I got married and stopped as I had to many computers
2096 [22:53:08] <rwp> j0seph, I will say that IMNHO any old Vista machines would be doing them a favor to convert them to a Debian installation!
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2098 [22:53:31] <n4dir> cryptodan_mobile: ha ha. i can imagine.
2099 [22:53:40] <j0seph> rwp: i'd say you're correct :)
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2101 [22:54:04] <j0seph> always good for a backup, of course
2102 [22:54:18] <Bjornn> perhaps someone could share their experience about icedove? is this no longer supported? what might be a better alternative if so?
2103 [22:54:23] <rwp> Thinkpads come in all shapes and sizes. My favorites are the T series. But my portable machine now is this old X220 because I really *love* this keyboard.
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2106 [22:54:56] <j0seph> rwp: every person i've talked to about thinkpads have always noted how they keyboard is a dream. :)
2107 [22:55:00] <j0seph> the*
2108 [22:55:04] <rwp> The X1 Carbon series are thin and appropriate for the people who want thin machines.
2109 [22:55:35] <n4dir> Bjornn: many like claws-mail, so do i.
2110 [22:55:45] <rwp> It all depends upon if you are a typing person or otherwise. If you use all ten of your fingers and wished for a foot pedal as well then a good keyboard is a must.
2111 [22:56:16] <j0seph> rwp: that touchpad has the left/right click buttons on top of the touchpad!
2112 [22:56:20] <j0seph> (x1 carbon)
2113 [22:56:26] <Bjornn> ok. thanks n4dir, I'll give it a try.
2114 [22:56:54] <rwp> Also if you are a person that uses the Trackpoint (the pointing stick in the middle of the keyboard) then those are best on the thinkpads.
2115 [22:57:15] <n4dir> Bjornn: never really used a different one. Might be that what others do per default, claws does via plugins, but per default is rather lean.
2116 [22:57:20] <cryptodan_mobile> Claws mail is very light weight and easy to use
2117 [22:57:33] <n4dir> so if you miss something, think of plugins.
2118 [22:57:50] <j0seph> rwp: i call that 'the nipple'
2119 [22:57:50] <rwp> I am not sure about the X1 but my x220 has buttons attached to the keyboard to associate with the Trackpoint. And also the touchpad itself pushes buttons on the lower left and lower right sides of the touchpad.
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2121 [22:58:37] <rwp> So one that uses the touchpad can touchpad and push it for buttons (I know Apples are like that too) and not use the physical buttons attached to the keyboard if they don't want to.
2122 [22:59:05] <rwp> But for the Trackpoint users if those buttons attached to the keyboard were removed then they would be unhappy.
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2126 [22:59:45] <j0seph> well, i will soon be in possession of some expensive hardware: i decided to sink money into a dell xps 13.
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2128 [23:00:21] <rwp> Ah! New toys! Just in time for Christmas!
2129 [23:00:30] <Bjornn> n4dir, I've had icedove on there but after having this computer mothballed for a year, I'm unable to connect to my gmail account with it. the root may be gmail but icedove is also showing some bugs in it's connection routine
2130 [23:00:34] <j0seph> of course :)
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2132 [23:01:51] <n4dir> Bjornn: i can't say anything about it. I didn't hear of problems with icedove these days. Just ask again, perhaps someone else ran in it. (weekend is usually rather silent in irc #debian)
2133 [23:02:10] <j0seph> it's not the 'new' dell xps 13 though, where they replaced all of the USB 3.0 ports with just USB-C ports.
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2137 [23:04:40] <Bjornn> I'm wondering if gmail has cut off remote access but I'll continue to follow up here with this suggestion
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2139 [23:07:22] <j0seph> Gmail usually tries to deny entry if it detects you're using an email client it doesn't recognise / doesn't follow its standards / however they put it.
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2142 [23:08:00] <bites> they will also send you a mail if they block a client.
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2145 [23:09:15] <tuxayo> n4dir thanks a lot! :D
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2154 [23:13:27] <rwp> trysten, n4dir, bash PATH and recent ~/.local/bin changes. replaced-url
2155 [23:13:29] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2156 [23:14:16] <rwp> I disagree with the statement made right at the start of that bug report though. It is proof by intimidation. I disagree it is the de-facto location.
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2159 [23:16:47] <trysten> rwp you make sense. But _just_ python using it seems like a good enough reason to consider approving the suggestion. I see it was indeed approved
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2164 [23:18:15] <rwp> I think ~/bin is the de-facto location for such things. But other people often do things I disagree with. Story of my life...
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2176 [23:21:51] <Bjornn> I'm testing, just ignore me
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2194 [23:31:15] <j0seph> rwp: i'm going to bust out that old emachines laptop and give it the debian treatment :)
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2213 [23:43:19] <ryouma> i am on jessie and will upgrade to stretch in a few months. i like /var/log/* and want to keep it, but i have noticed that the systemd journal contains more information. is this normal? i have also heard that you can enable persisten logging in the systemd log so that you can see the last messages before a reboot. what do i have to do to enable this on debian? just create /var/log/journald?
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2217 [23:46:50] <ndorf> by default the systemd journal is forwarded to syslog, so everything should be in /var/log
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2219 [23:48:02] <ndorf> you can set Storage=persistent in /etc/systemd/journald.conf to persist the journal to disk, but in that case i think it also makes sense to set ForwardToSyslog=no, otherwise it'll be in both places
2220 [23:48:15] <Bjornn> is there a simple way to upgrade to the current stable kernel? I did a search for kernels and there is quite a list to pick from
2221 [23:48:50] <ndorf> personally i think the journal is actually more useful, you can search by fields instead of raw grep, and everything is indexed by boot
2222 [23:48:56] <joepublic> Bjornn, I think linux-image-amd64 is what you are looking for
2223 [23:48:59] <rwp> j0seph, Cool! Good luck! :-)
2224 [23:49:29] <Bjornn> sounds right.
2225 [23:49:52] <Bjornn> I tried a different kernel a while back, and I need to get back to the right one.
2226 [23:50:24] <joepublic> what version are you booted into?
2227 [23:50:34] <rwp> Bjornn, What Debian track are you running? Stable, Testing, Sid?
2228 [23:50:50] <j0seph> rwp: this thing only has 1gb of ram.. probably not the lowest you can go in terms of old laptops. in fact, this might have been ahead of its time haha
2229 [23:50:53] <ryouma> ndorf: strangely, i found a message in "journalctl --since -2d -o short-iso" that did not exist in /var/log
2230 [23:50:56] *** Joins: Brainium (~brainium@replaced-ip )
2231 [23:51:06] *** Joins: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip )
2232 [23:51:54] <ryouma> ndorf: search by fields? indexed by boot? not sure what you mean by each of those. are teh files human-readable?
2233 [23:51:59] *** Quits: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2234 [23:52:20] *** Quits: graphene (~graphene@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2235 [23:52:29] <ndorf> no, you would have to use the journalctl command to parse/display the logs.
2236 [23:52:31] *** Quits: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2237 [23:52:51] <ndorf> search by field means, if you want to search for records from some pid for example, you can actually search for PID=x instead of grepping for x and hoping for the best
2238 [23:52:54] *** Joins: graphene (~graphene@replaced-ip )
2239 [23:52:58] <Bjornn> rwp I'm on Jessie. but I was having trouble with the wifi when I bought the laptop a year ago. the kernel I'm using has some kind init problem where it cycles through a whole bunch of data before it finally starts. it works ok when it does finally start but I still don't have wifi
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2241 [23:53:22] <ndorf> indexed by boot means, show me logs for the current boot (since the system is up), or the previous one, or 5 boots ago
2242 [23:53:39] *** Joins: faw (~faw@replaced-ip )
2243 [23:54:15] <ryouma> ok thanks. and does this persistent journal expire itself so that it does not grow forever?
2244 [23:55:09] *** Quits: faw_ (~faw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2245 [23:55:13] <ryouma> (i /think/ i have var log set to compress and then expire itself nicely, but dunno if journalctl will dothat)
2246 [23:55:28] <rwp> j0seph, You can always boot a live-cd boot and test out compatibility before doing anything permanent.
2247 [23:55:43] <ndorf> yes, they expire automatically, you can configure it, etc
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2249 [23:56:42] *** Joins: thatpythonguy (~john@replaced-ip )
2250 [23:56:44] <rwp> Bjornn, What wifi device do you have? 'lspci' will tell you.
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2252 [23:57:21] <rwp> Bjornn, FYI the stock Jessie kernel with all security upgrades applied is 3.16.0-7-amd64 at this time.
2253 [23:57:43] <Bjornn> Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8723BE PCIe Wireless Network Adapter
2254 [23:57:45] *** Joins: miyagui (~mrmiyagui@replaced-ip )
2255 [23:58:11] <Bjornn> someone was working on git project for these drivers, back when I was trying to get it working.
2256 [23:58:25] <Bjornn> I was not successful at getting wifi, I'm using ethernet now
2257 [23:58:37] <rwp> Bjornn, That chipset needs the drivers from non-free to work. The firmware-realtek package in non-free contains them.
2258 [23:59:12] <Bjornn> I think I have non-free in my source list.
2259 [23:59:14] <Bjornn> let me check
2260 [23:59:54] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ☮ out)
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