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• 21[00:08:58] <BCMM> agio: yes, that's exactly what it does
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• 25[00:10:46] <BCMM> agio: what man page are you looking at? are you using some nohup other than the GNU coreutils version?
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• 28[00:11:38] <agio> BCMM: im using the GNU coreutils that comes installed on debian
• 29[00:11:39] <BCMM> because the man page for gnu nohup was not written before gnu was even founded
• 30[00:12:01] <agio> my point is it seems to be an obsolete command
• 31[00:12:31] <agio> in which developments occured - which the command doen't account for
• 32[00:12:37] <BCMM> well... why does it seem to be taht?
• 33[00:12:43] <BCMM> ^that
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• 37[00:13:37] <BCMM> agio: the terminal is still very much a thing. terminals still exist in linux, and people still use them. you can still close terminals.
• 38[00:14:06] <BCMM> and when you close a terminal, stuff that's connected to that terminal still sends SIGHUP
• 39[00:14:19] <BCMM> agio: can you explain which bit seems to be obsolete to you?
• 40[00:14:34] <BCMM> (sorry, meant to type "still recieves SIGHUP")
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• 42[00:16:51] <agio> BCMM: right, so you close a terminal and the shell receives a SIGTERM - and it then sends a SIGHUP to its children right?
• 43[00:17:18] <BCMM> agio: no. as far as i understand, the shell has very little to do with this
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• 46[00:17:45] <BCMM> agio: sighup just reports that the process's controlling terminal has been closed
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• 49[00:18:20] <BCMM> if you just close xterm, for example, i would assume that the shell sees sighup just like every other job
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• 52[00:19:54] <BCMM> agio: if you want to verify that hup still exists, try running `sleep 99` or whatever in an xterm. close xterm, and observe that the process has stopped running. now try the same with `nohup sleep 99`.
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• 54[00:20:30] <agio> BCMM: ok, testing that now...
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• 59[00:22:20] <agio> BCMM: ah you are right
• 60[00:22:50] <BCMM> agio: there is a scenario in which sighup doesn't work as expected for external reasons, though
• 61[00:23:09] <agio> which is?
• 62[00:23:18] <BCMM> agio: if a user actually logs out completely, systemd kills all that user's processes (by default)
• 63[00:23:48] <agio> oh, ok
• 64[00:23:50] <BCMM> i'm not sure if debian patches that out or not, but that's the upstream default behaviour
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• 66[00:24:02] <BCMM> (specifically it's logind that does that)
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• 69[00:27:28] <agio> interesting, there seem to be other cases where nohup doesn't work as expected, e.g. if you say replace "sleep 99" in your example with "gimp", ie. $ nohup gimp. gimp will exit when you kill xterm
• 70[00:27:33] <agio> BCMM: ^^
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• 72[00:28:16] <BCMM> agio: huh, so it does. i wonder how that works...
• 73[00:28:31] <BCMM> it's not x11 programs in general, because xmessage persists...
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• 75[00:28:45] <BCMM> and it quits with "gimp: terminated: Hangup"
• 76[00:29:01] <BCMM> weird, how did it *know* about the hangup?
• 77[00:29:06] <Kelsar> it creates a cgroup for the user
• 78[00:29:13] <SerajewelKS> if the nohup'd program forks, is the fork also nohup'd?
• 79[00:29:18] <Kelsar> whoever you can make a user session linger, then it won't kill
• 80[00:29:19] <SerajewelKS> maybe gimp forks?
• 81[00:29:47] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: well, it's hardly going to inherit a terminal that the parent process doesn't have, surely?
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• 85[00:31:39] <BCMM> agio: have you seen that behaviour in anything other than gimp? i just tried gtk3-demo and lowriter, and they nohup as expected
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• 89[00:32:28] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: hmm, if xterm allocates a tty, what would happen if gimp explicitly opens /dev/tty? will it get sighup if that tty goes away?
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• 91[00:32:52] <agio> BCMM: yes, its common that nohup doesnn't work for me with X programs
• 92[00:33:18] <SerajewelKS> i'm not exactly sure where the sighup originates
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• 94[00:33:39] <SerajewelKS> e.g. if the shell does it, or the kernel when the tty closes
• 95[00:34:50] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: i checked (ls -l /proc/`pidof gimp`/fd)
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• 97[00:36:19] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: is there more text coming or are you just telling me that you looked there but not what you found
• 98[00:36:34] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: sorry. it didn't seem to have the tty open directly
• 99[00:36:40] <SerajewelKS> hmm
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• 101[00:37:03] <BCMM> there was a bunch of pipes, sockets, anon_inodes
• 102[00:37:20] <BCMM> other than that, just /dev/null for stdin and nohup.out for stdout and stderr
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• 115[00:44:42] <SerajewelKS> i wonder if this happens with any other X terminals
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• 118[00:49:42] <rk[ghost]> what is the humanname for debian 8?
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• 120[00:49:58] <HicksD> Jessie
• 121[00:50:13] *** Quits: Ghost0 (ac6f883b@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 122[00:50:23] <rk[ghost]> thanks.
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• 125[00:52:21] <agio> SerajewelKS: I've been told by zsh dev' tty driver makes the `kill SIGHUP' call into the kernel
• 126[00:52:30] <rk[ghost]> if i want a specific version of FF which is deprecated, is there a canonical way to specify, use a snapshot only once for this given package and then autoremove the snapshot?
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• 132[00:55:48] <agio> SerajewelKS: the terminal emulator usually makes the shell the session leader for the tty, after the tty is closed the kernel driver sends the signal to its session leader
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• 162[01:15:50] <SerajewelKS> is it safe to interrupt an offline resize2fs shrink?
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• 164[01:16:20] <rk[ghost]> wahoo!! finding the old package.. and pulling the .deb from the snapshots seems to be returning to a web browser that "just works" and my workflow has resumed!
• 165[01:16:25] <rk[ghost]> only a 16day set back!
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• 167[01:18:14] <SerajewelKS> hopefully you're running the unsupported firefox on a system that doesn't hold any information or activity you don't want compromised
• 168[01:19:05] <rk[ghost]> SerajewelKS: i think all data should be free. and i don't have enough coins for anyone to abuse.
• 169[01:19:13] *** Quits: finlstrm (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye, bye.)
• 170[01:19:21] <rk[ghost]> so as long as they cannot manipulate my data, then i be OK with that.
• 171[01:19:33] <rk[ghost]> really, i just need to keep better backups and i have that issue resolved as well.
• 172[01:19:40] <SerajewelKS> i mean, if there's an RCE discovered in 52 then they could manipulate your data
• 173[01:20:00] <rk[ghost]> interesting, maybe i can find a way to sandbox the application.
• 174[01:20:27] <rk[ghost]> what is the latest version of FF that supports xul extensions?
• 175[01:20:41] <rk[ghost]> and is that version suspectible to such attacks?
• 176[01:21:17] <rk[ghost]> oh, you said "if".. and that is a big IF eh? as such, if such is discovered, i would imagine they would find bigger and badder targets like banks and insurance instuttions
• 177[01:21:24] <SerajewelKS> 52 was the latest LTS version supporting XUL. and i don't know if it is vulnerable. the only people who are likely to be looking for those kinds of vulnerabilities now are black hats, since it's out of LTS.
• 178[01:21:28] <rk[ghost]> and that'll make anarchy at which point my problems should matter much.
• 179[01:21:49] <rk[ghost]> ah, roger roger.
• 180[01:21:54] <rk[ghost]> thanks much SerajewelKS
• 181[01:22:07] <phogg> pro tip, newer Firefox still uses XUL (it's just not *supported* any more and may disappear)
• 182[01:22:14] <SerajewelKS> if any big companies are using firefox then they're either letting it auto update, or keeping up with LTS i would imagine
• 183[01:22:29] <phogg> get the developer extension that lets you do "inspect" on chrome elements and you can see it
• 184[01:22:38] <SerajewelKS> if their IT is going through the trouble to not just use IE then they probably have an update plan for it
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• 186[01:23:27] <n4dir> been ages, but if Uwe Hermann said nasty things about firefox when it comes to privacy for sure (perhaps even about security). As in "as soon you use scripts, forget about it". A pity i can't find the link to his homepage-blog anymore (he also had interesting stuff about qemu with hurd and such)
• 187[01:24:00] <n4dir> and smartphones sure haven't made that whole problem any better.
• 188[01:24:00] <rk[ghost]> hmm, i think i may try to upgrade to 52.9.0 from the working 52.2.0 i have just to have whatever other updates.. and see if that crashes or not.
• 189[01:24:35] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 190[01:24:35] <Kohlrabi> <SerajewelKS> 52 was the latest LTS version supporting XUL. and i don't know if it is vulnerable. the only people who are likely to be looking for those kinds of vulnerabilities now are black hats, since it's out of LTS. | Wouldn't that mean that people would spend MORE time on finding holes, since they can be sure they won't be fixed?
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• 192[01:25:11] <SerajewelKS> Kohlrabi: probably, but those people are going to try to keep it a secret so they can exploit it. so if something is found, we may not know until it's being exploited.
• 193[01:25:18] <Kohlrabi> exactly
• 194[01:25:31] <SerajewelKS> which means using FF 52 is rather dangerous
• 195[01:25:41] <Kohlrabi> exactly
• 196[01:26:03] <Kohlrabi> I agree with the sentiment that nuking your workflow is evil, though
• 197[01:26:21] <n4dir> so you basically have the choice between two bitter pills ...
• 198[01:26:29] <Kohlrabi> I already had that with Opera dying, and the new tree style tabs
• 199[01:26:57] <rk[ghost]> i am so dependent upon using Pentadactyl and i don't currently have the time to focus on a metatask (ie getting something to work so i can work .. XD)
• 200[01:27:00] <SerajewelKS> the bigger problem is not that 60 doesn't support XUL extensions, it's that debian didn't really have a way to tell anyone that this change was coming in advance, or at least many people weren't paying attention, or subscribed, or whatever.
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• 202[01:27:02] <Kohlrabi> apparently browser programmers have their screens turned vertially
• 203[01:27:05] <Kohlrabi> vertically*
• 204[01:27:09] <SerajewelKS> so for many people the change was just thrust on them with no warning
• 205[01:27:25] <Kohlrabi> I dunno
• 206[01:27:26] <rk[ghost]> there does seem to be chatter of alternatives, that i can poke around using (in the meanwhile of having something that already WORKS)
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• 209[01:27:54] <Kohlrabi> SerajewelKS: No changelog popping up when apt upgrading?
• 210[01:28:03] <SerajewelKS> Kohlrabi: sure but at that point it's too late
• 211[01:28:09] <Kohlrabi> True
• 212[01:28:30] <rk[ghost]> computing is nothing but choices of bitter pills because doing it right is against the flow.
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• 214[01:28:35] <SerajewelKS> debian doesn't really have a concept of "warn about an upcoming upgrade and allow you to opt-in early"
• 215[01:28:40] <Kohlrabi> But that's the case all the time when you upgrade :D
• 216[01:28:43] <SerajewelKS> packages go in the repo, end of story
• 217[01:29:16] <SerajewelKS> if people had a chance to use 60 before 52 fell out of LTS then they would have discovered the problems and could think about what they were going to do when 60 was mandatory
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• 220[01:29:55] <SerajewelKS> (though that would require that a firefox profile be downgradeable from 60 to 52, but that's a side issue)
• 221[01:30:01] <Kohlrabi> apt upgrade should have an option (o by default?) to fetch changelogs and then ask the user again if he wants to upgrade
• 222[01:30:21] <SerajewelKS> it might
• 223[01:30:22] <Kohlrabi> So that he can still opt-out
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• 225[01:30:38] <SerajewelKS> even still, at that point 52 is not supported anymore
• 226[01:30:44] <SerajewelKS> so it's the same problem
• 227[01:30:51] <Kohlrabi> I had something similar recently with another package, dunno which one that was anymore
• 228[01:30:54] <SerajewelKS> do you want a working workflow, or security
• 229[01:31:19] <SerajewelKS> people needed a chance to address the workflow change before they had a security dilemma
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• 232[01:31:36] <Kohlrabi> Wasn't there ample time to prepare for new Firefox?
• 233[01:31:43] <Kohlrabi> It has ben out what now, 1.5 years?
• 234[01:31:52] <SerajewelKS> if you knew the forced change was coming, yes
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• 236[01:32:39] <Kohlrabi> I'd argue people who are not up to speed on tehir every day tools don't have a workflow :P
• 237[01:32:44] <Kohlrabi> their*
• 238[01:33:06] <Kohlrabi> But I agree, it's a bad situation
• 239[01:33:09] <SerajewelKS> eh, to a point. people using debian may not be keeping up with what's changing in firefox, because debian stable is... not supposed to change. and 52 is LTS.
• 240[01:33:21] *** Joins: Neo_Chen (~Neo_Chen@replaced-ip)
• 241[01:33:28] <SerajewelKS> but when your LTS is not supported, you have to upgrade for the sake of security
• 242[01:33:40] <SerajewelKS> debian doesn't have a good way to address this situation because it's not a rolling release distro
• 243[01:33:54] <SerajewelKS> so when mozilla stops supporting 52, it creates the perfect shitstorm that doesn't have a good answer
• 244[01:34:21] <Kohlrabi> I don't see how any blame should hit Debian
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• 246[01:34:30] <SerajewelKS> i'm not blaming debian
• 247[01:34:35] <HicksD> Perhaps there should be a notification of packages that have ended their upstream LTS and will have to version jump next security issue that cannot be backported?
• 248[01:34:47] <HicksD> What form that'd take, I'm not sure.
• 249[01:34:58] <SerajewelKS> debian just doesn't have a good way to handle that kind of situation gracefully, simply because debian is what debian is
• 250[01:35:16] <heartbreakers> hi debhelper
• 251[01:35:23] *** Quits: combro2k (~combro2k@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 252[01:35:27] <heartbreakers> are u ok!
• 253[01:35:30] <Kohlrabi> a) blame moz for not supporting old plugins b) blame plugin maker for not updating to new API c) blame user for using something old and unsupported
• 254[01:35:56] <Kohlrabi> Nothing is free, if something is so essential for your workflow, work on fixing it and/or support the devs
• 255[01:35:58] <n4dir> best of all: blame the web.
• 256[01:36:01] <HicksD> I was bit by this recently, thunderbird updated due to security, broke enigmail.
• 257[01:36:15] <SerajewelKS> HicksD: the best approach would probably be a notification on the debian-security mailing list, well in advance of the change
• 258[01:36:23] <SerajewelKS> but how many debian users know to subscribe to that?
• 259[01:36:38] <HicksD> yeah I'm not sure if that's a good option for the general user.
• 260[01:36:38] <Kohlrabi> I complain too, but that is the reality of the "market" we're in, nobody owes us anything
• 261[01:37:12] <SerajewelKS> i'm not blaming debian for anything that happened, i'm just acknowledging that the whole situation kind of sucks
• 262[01:37:22] <Kohlrabi> SerajewelKS: Debian never gave a guarantee that some third-party FF browser-plugin will work after upgrading the OS
• 263[01:37:26] <SerajewelKS> debian made the right choice to force the upgrade to 60
• 264[01:37:32] <HicksD> Perhaps, a separate listing in aptitude, or email notification after apt updates (for those with unattended upgrades) or something along those lines. So you know which of your packages are out of LTS upstream and risk major changes should a security issue crop up in the future.
• 265[01:37:39] <SerajewelKS> Kohlrabi: sure, but it *wasn't an OS upgrade*
• 266[01:37:41] <HicksD> Especially for firefox/thunderbird, that'd be useful.
• 267[01:37:43] <SerajewelKS> it was a security patch
• 268[01:37:55] <Kohlrabi> hmm
• 269[01:38:05] <SerajewelKS> 52 to 60 is perfectly normal if you're upgrading jessie -> stretch for example
• 270[01:38:11] <Kohlrabi> Yes, OK
• 271[01:38:15] <HicksD> It's understandable why this occurs, it's too much work to backport firefox/thunderbird security upgrades usually.
• 272[01:38:16] <SerajewelKS> most debian users expect stable not to break stuff in a security patch
• 273[01:38:17] <n4dir> i doubt this was the last time this happens to firefox. i am done with it, and have switched to a different webbrowser.
• 274[01:38:38] <Kohlrabi> SerajewelKS: It's third party, firefox (the package) is still OK
• 275[01:38:50] <HicksD> It just conflicts a bit with what stable normally is. It is what it is in terms of it's going to keep happening because there's not much of an alternative
• 276[01:38:57] <Kohlrabi> debian cannot control for that, right?
• 277[01:38:59] <SerajewelKS> but when your upstream stops providing security patches, you either have to yourself, or switch upstream versions
• 278[01:39:11] <HicksD> but I agree with SerajewelKS that it'd be good if users can be informed in some way. Perhaps a discussion for the DD mailing list?
• 279[01:39:14] <SerajewelKS> Kohlrabi: i don't understand your question
• 280[01:39:22] <Kohlrabi> If inkscape rmeoved the feature to edit some esoteric vector format, Debian wouldn't maintain that branch, either, would they?
• 281[01:39:42] <SerajewelKS> Kohlrabi: well in that case they probably wouldn't make a security patch removing it
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• 283[01:39:48] <Kohlrabi> Depends
• 284[01:39:54] <SerajewelKS> FF is a widely-used thing with a large attack surface
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• 286[01:40:04] <SerajewelKS> not patching it is irresponsible
• 287[01:40:12] <Kohlrabi> Indeed
• 288[01:40:19] <HicksD> Kohlrabi: Users of stable generally expect feature changes only to occur in major updates of the OS. Not generally for security upgrades and debian for the most part, manages that, there' sjust a few exceptions for good reasons.
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• 290[01:40:31] <SerajewelKS> "hey be careful opening xyz format in inkscape because upstream doesn't maintain xyz support anymore" is a reasonable notification to inkscape users
• 291[01:40:50] <SerajewelKS> "don't browse the web with the firefox in debian, use chromium from now on" doesn't really work
• 292[01:41:44] <SerajewelKS> debian did the right thing, it's just a bad situation
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• 294[01:41:58] <HicksD> That said, even IF there was a notification of things going out of LTS so expectations are set correctly for future fixes
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• 298[01:42:14] <HicksD> I expect many wouldn't look at new firefox, especially if it's not also packaged too
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• 300[01:42:30] <HicksD> so the situation would still probably occur out the blue.
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• 305[01:42:40] <SerajewelKS> it would, you can't get everyone on board
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• 307[01:43:00] <SerajewelKS> but even people who generally keep up to date on what their OS is doing were blindsided by the change
• 308[01:43:03] <HicksD> although in that case blame would be more on the end user for not taking the advice given :)
• 309[01:43:03] <Kohlrabi> If security upgrade implies that functionality is lost, there is no real choice
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• 311[01:43:20] <Kohlrabi> At least by default
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• 313[01:43:56] <Kohlrabi> You can view the old extension API disappearing as part of the "secuirty update"
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• 315[01:44:00] <Kohlrabi> security*
• 316[01:44:19] <Kohlrabi> (maybe it wven was vulnerable, I dunno)
• 317[01:44:23] <Kohlrabi> even*
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• 319[01:45:29] * heartbreakers hello
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• 322[01:46:57] <HicksD> The issue simply comes down to Debian stable tries to remain "stable" even in the face of security updates. Upstreams that don't have a LTS branch or EOL it are problemantic when it comes to security updates. Where possible (I think) maintainers do try to backport despite upstream not making it easy. In the case of firefox/thunderbird and other packages, the burden of that is just too great.
• 323[01:47:29] <Kohlrabi> New Firefox was a huge change
• 324[01:47:32] <HicksD> The two are just at odds and it's not likely to ever change, so the question is, how to inform users and reduce the shock
• 325[01:47:50] <Kohlrabi> You'd need a team the size Mozilla has to backport fixes to old Firefox
• 326[01:48:02] <HicksD> yes, that's why it doesn't happen, it's quite understandable.
• 327[01:48:26] <Kohlrabi> On stretch or jessie, security updates are still installed manually, usually?
• 328[01:48:34] <Kohlrabi> Nowadays there's u-u
• 329[01:48:51] <Kohlrabi> (which has fucked up several of my systems already)
• 330[01:49:04] <Kohlrabi> ((but only for a short while until I fixed them, but damn)
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• 333[01:49:31] <HicksD> As SerajewelKS said though, at time of install is kinda too late. As you don't really have any choice but to install the new version at that time and then try to work out how to fix anything now broken in how you work.
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• 337[01:51:23] <Kohlrabi> SerajewelKS: Silly me, apt-listchanges does what I asked earlier
• 338[01:51:27] <HicksD> Knowing which packages are liable to get major jumps for any security update is probably a good start, but of limited use if there's no way to check out future versions
• 339[01:51:30] <Kohlrabi> Adds a second prompt when upgrading
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• 341[01:52:07] <Kohlrabi> HicksD: Oh, you mean run side-by-side?
• 342[01:52:15] <HicksD> for example, say you're on firefox 60 and it goes EOL and mozilla are now LTS on 70 but as yet no security issues with 60, so debian keeps on with it. You'd (somehow) be notified 60 is liable to get a major update next security fix
• 343[01:52:48] <HicksD> you'd want a way to checkout 70 and get yourself ready for it if anything is going to break your workflow
• 344[01:52:57] <HicksD> yes, that'd probably be needed.
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• 346[01:53:08] <HicksD> perhaps you check it out via using a snap?
• 347[01:53:17] <Kohlrabi> can you run packages from testing side-by-side with stable?
• 348[01:53:22] <Kohlrabi> Probably needs a chroot?
• 349[01:53:24] <HicksD> whether you do or not, would depend how critical that package really is to you
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• 351[01:53:38] <HicksD> you can pull in backports but that wouldnt' be side-by-side
• 352[01:53:58] <HicksD> a snap/flatpak etc would probably work better for testing, but then not every upstread provides those
• 353[01:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1379
• 354[01:54:04] <HEARTBREAKERSCOR> :)
• 355[01:54:06] <HicksD> and debian having to do it, would be one more burdon
• 356[01:54:09] <Kohlrabi> sudo apt-get install firefox-latest --alias firefox-testversion?
• 357[01:54:31] <Kohlrabi> installs with the alias instead of the original name
• 358[01:54:33] <Kohlrabi> vOv
• 359[01:54:47] <Kohlrabi> Needs lots of complicated stuff in dpkg and apt, I guess
• 360[01:54:49] <HicksD> I really don't have a solution to this atm, but i do agree with SerajewelKS that it can be an issue that bites people at varying times even though it's fully understandable why the situation is how it is.
• 361[01:55:00] <Kohlrabi> HicksD: Maybe it can be handles similarily to how multiarch is done?
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• 363[01:55:11] <Kohlrabi> handled*
• 364[01:55:25] <HicksD> I don't know enough about the plumming in debian to say anything more really :)
• 365[01:55:30] <Kohlrabi> ok
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• 367[01:55:32] <Kohlrabi> nvm
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• 369[01:56:38] <HicksD> I think even if the side-by-side wasn't feasible, just having an early warning would give you a chance to head off and read up on the changes that might be coming your way, checkout a snap if needed etc
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• 372[01:57:16] <Kohlrabi> early warning could be issued after running apt update, maybe
• 373[01:57:17] <HicksD> that said normally it's not as big of an issue as the recent firefox change was
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• 406[02:33:14] <zafo> hi, I am compiling a program that requires libgfortran.so . A search of packages two packages that contain this file: amd64-cross or dev . Does it matter which one I install? which one I install?
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• 433[03:13:15] <themill> zafo: more likely you want the 'gfortran' package
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• 450[03:31:21] <zafo> themill: could have been that gfortran would have solved the solution. anyways I ended up in a mess: installed both versions, still ld couldn't find them cause the libs were called lgfortran.so.5 instead of just libgfortran.so so I had to manually create a symbloic link.
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• 454[03:32:16] <zafo> wiht the symlink it works but obviously not robust
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• 456[03:32:37] <themill> if you're compiling, you shouldn't be needing a specific sover like that
• 457[03:33:19] <zafo> any idea how to permanently tell ld to consider *.so.5 the same *.so?
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• 459[03:33:55] <zafo> what would be the alternative?
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• 462[03:34:26] <themill> are you actually compiling the source or is this prebuilt source that you're just linking?
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• 464[03:34:58] <zafo> I am compiling the source using gcc and g++
• 465[03:35:23] <zafo> (it is in fact an R package from CRAN)
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• 467[03:36:25] <themill> is its build system a bit broken in that it has .so.5 hard coded into it?
• 468[03:38:20] <zafo> that I don't know, because libgfortran.so.5 I have just via installed via aptitude. I assume it is not broken.
• 469[03:38:38] <themill> which release of debian is this?
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• 471[03:39:31] <themill> gfortran in stretch should be compiling against .so.6 which is what is installed when you install gfortran
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• 473[03:40:06] <zafo> buster
• 474[03:40:22] <themill> ah...
• 475[03:40:50] <zafo> hwne I do $/usr/bin/ld -lgfortran --verbose it doesn't find the libgfortran.so.5 that I just installed
• 476[03:41:28] <themill> did you install libgfortran-8-dev?
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• 478[03:42:34] <zafo> no, I installed both libgfortran-6-dev and libgfortran-6-dev-amd64-cross
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• 480[03:43:18] <themill> bah, fortran is such a mess
• 481[03:43:38] <mawk> try to run ldconfig zafo
• 482[03:43:41] <mawk> to rebuild the cache
• 483[03:43:46] <zafo> si I have got /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/libgfortran.so (but ld doesn't look there) as well as /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgfortran.so.3 and /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgfortran.so.5
• 484[03:43:57] <mawk> yeah so it should work
• 485[03:44:05] <mawk> rebuild the cache
• 486[03:44:21] <themill> ldconfig gets run every time you install a library package
• 487[03:44:25] <mawk> ah
• 488[03:44:32] <mawk> ld doesn't look in the gcc directory if you use it directly, but you better use the gcc wrapper around ld
• 489[03:44:38] <zafo> how can I rebuild te cache for ld?
• 490[03:44:40] <mawk> or the whatever compiler frontend you use, in this case gfortran
• 491[03:45:09] <mawk> so replace ld by gfortran in your commands and link as usual, to pass options to ld use -Wl,-option,value instead of -option value
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• 493[03:45:34] <mawk> as a bonus LTO and everything will work smoothly
• 494[03:45:57] <mawk> also gcc links in very important object files like crtbegin.o or crtend.o, as well as important libs such as libgcc
• 495[03:46:17] <mawk> you generally don't want to call ld directly, unless if it's just for a small operation like packing several .o into a single .o
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• 499[03:48:02] <zafo> hmmm... I think that is what I did (usee gcc wrapper for LD): I added this to my .R/Makevars file => CC = gcc -std=gnu99 -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -L/usr/x86_64-linux-gnu/lib
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• 502[03:48:36] <zafo> so now ld looks in those folders but still I had to create the symlink to get rid of so.5 because it expected *.so
• 503[03:49:32] <mawk> it doesn't expect *.so
• 504[03:49:35] <mawk> *.so.42 is fine
• 505[03:49:40] <mawk> it's just a version number
• 506[03:49:50] <mawk> by gcc wraper I mean gfortran wrapper
• 507[03:50:10] <mawk> even though maybe gcc is smart enough to detect it's fortran and use the correct specs but I don't know
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• 523[04:01:48] <heroxbd> Hi what do you guys usually use for video conferencing? I am tired of all those incompatible startups shipping broken .deb packages.
• 524[04:02:58] <awal1> try a web app
• 525[04:03:09] <heroxbd> like what?
• 526[04:03:31] <awal1> there isn't really a good free alternative
• 527[04:03:53] <awal1> conferencing with friends or business?
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• 531[04:04:57] <heroxbd> Well, we are a small physicist group, but having collaborators worldwide. So that's business.
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• 540[04:07:49] <zafo> mawk: I think my problem wouldn't exist if R's package system would be compatible with Debian's. In fact plenty of R packages have been packaged for debian but apparently this is no longer the case for newer package. I guess the it is not worth the effort for package mainainers.
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• 542[04:09:03] <heroxbd> zafo: I would like to see some .deb generator for CRAN.
• 543[04:09:33] <zafo> so i have to run R's pacakge maintainance's system (and also python's pips) parallel to Debian, which has created a mess of my system
• 544[04:10:23] <zafo> heroxbd; I don't think there will be any. CRAN and .deb are diverging.
• 545[04:11:12] <zafo> and as far as I know there is no effort in maintaining support for R-studio or other ides in debian
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• 549[04:13:59] <heroxbd> zafo: I am the maintainer of Gentoo R_Overlay, we have 99% coverage of CRAN packages to be automatically converted to .ebuild.
• 550[04:14:26] <heroxbd> It is not that different for .deb debian/control, debian/rule and debian/changelog.
• 551[04:15:40] <zafo> cool!
• 552[04:16:07] <zafo> how do you tackle the problem of keeping up with (1000s) of upstream?
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• 556[04:20:15] <heroxbd> zafo: The server runs a cron job, rsync'ing the CRAN server. And then look into the packages to figure out interdependencies.
• 557[04:20:43] <heroxbd> After the dependency graph is built, the .ebuilds will be written out as a repository.
• 558[04:21:17] <heroxbd> others, like description, are 1-1 mapping to the .ebuild fields.
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• 561[04:23:19] <zafo> That sounds awesome. I wish it something like that would be available for debian. do you have one for python too?
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• 563[04:25:57] <heroxbd> zafo: The python one is a bit different, it is called gs-pypi, the generator only. You will have to specify a pypi to generator all its dependencies. But that project needs help now, not in good shape.
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• 566[04:28:41] <zafo> still just for the sake of CRAN integration I will have a look into installing Gentoo. thanx for the info.
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• 601[05:21:14] <spacedust> replaced-url
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• 605[05:24:50] <heroxbd> zafo: My pleasure.
• 606[05:25:26] <heroxbd> zafo: BTW, there was a project called cran2deb, but it has been unmaintained for a while.
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• 629[05:51:04] <f0xtr0t> I don't seem to be able to get audio working via HDMI, on Debian Stretch. `pavucontrol` shows HDMI output as unplugged, even though I actually have my HDMI cable plugged. How do I debug this, and get it working?
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• 631[05:51:48] <f0xtr0t> (The standard "Sounds" part of "Settings" doesn't show anything, which is why I tried looking at it through `pavucontrol`)
• 632[05:53:09] <deego> f0xtr0t: i couldn't either. let me knowif you figure it out. I just attach speakres atm
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• 634[05:54:19] <f0xtr0t> Haha, will do. This is the last of the annoyances that I have to get working, and I will have evrything working amazingly.
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• 644[06:00:53] <deego> f0xtr0t: i use xfce4. What's your wm? and does that matter?
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• 653[06:06:26] <f0xtr0t> I use Gnome3. I don't think it matters.
• 654[06:06:59] <f0xtr0t> I believe that the Video card matters. I have Intel HD Graphics 620.
• 655[06:07:16] <deego> ah, true. i remember reading that
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• 687[06:44:00] <doublehp> I want to design non interactive installer; I see a new ncurses question trying to interact with me, which led me to "debconf-get-selections | grep -v -e "^#" | grep -i wic" => "wicd-daemon wicd/users multiselect foo" where foo is one user ; what's the syntax for two users : "foo[SPACE]bar" ? "foo,bar" ?
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• 697[06:55:00] <themill> doublehp: «foo, bar, quux» from what I can see in the debconf-get-selections output
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• 699[06:56:18] <doublehp> yes, thanks
• 700[06:57:10] <themill> debconf-devel(7) says that too
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• 706[07:09:02] <__m4ch1n3__> doublehp, regex OR in grep: grep -E "(foo|bar)"
• 707[07:09:29] <doublehp> ?
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• 710[07:12:09] <__m4ch1n3__> or wait :3 what do you mean with "syntax for two users"?
• 711[07:13:08] <__m4ch1n3__> "foo[[:blank:]]bar
• 712[07:13:24] <__m4ch1n3__> blank matches tabs and spaces
• 713[07:13:28] <themill> __m4ch1n3__: the question is about debconf-set-selections
• 714[07:14:03] <__m4ch1n3__> oh lol
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• 720[07:18:28] <doublehp> __m4ch1n3__: themill answered me; for grep questions I do in #grep
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• 735[07:29:31] <__m4ch1n3__> doublehp, I'm glad i could help :D
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• 789[08:28:19] <epic_null> Hello. Small question: What can I use in debian to write an iso to a usb?
• 790[08:28:30] *** Parts: honeydew (~honeydew@replaced-ip) ()
• 791[08:28:36] <epic_null> Most of the software I am trying only allows for actual disks
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• 793[08:28:40] <watchcat> dd, cp
• 794[08:29:19] <epic_null> I need to write it as a bootable, so I don't think cp will work the way I need it to
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• 796[08:30:28] <watchcat> it will if you send it to a block device, eg /dev/sdx not /dev/sdxy.
• 797[08:32:28] <watchcat> the iso needs to be 'hybrid' to boot from both optical disk and usb.
• 798[08:33:15] <epic_null> ... hold on let me see if i can figure out how to tell if what I have is hybrid
• 799[08:34:40] <epic_null> Okay, so it looks like it does suppport booting from a usb
• 800[08:34:55] <epic_null> But I don't know what name it has in /dev
• 801[08:35:03] <epic_null> (the usb, not the iso)
• 802[08:35:08] <epic_null> (Iso is not yet mounted)
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• 804[08:35:27] <watchcat> lsusb
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• 809[08:38:48] <epic_null> so `/dev/bus/usb/002/023` for `Bus 002 Device 023: ID 154b:00ed PNY`?
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• 811[08:40:07] <watchcat> i'm sorry, i meant lsblk. apologies.
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• 813[08:41:49] <epic_null> so I cp the iso to sdb, and it'll write the iso to sdb?
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• 817[08:42:55] <epic_null> And I think it's sdb because it's suspiciously close to 32 gigs (28.9 G is not 32 darn it... Guess that's what happens when you go cheap tho)
• 818[08:43:03] <watchcat> yes, to /dev/sdb IF you're SURE that's your usbstick. (check size).
• 819[08:43:35] <watchcat> sounds right.
• 820[08:43:43] <epic_null> Yeah, looks like - take it out and sdb disapears
• 821[08:44:17] <agio> lsblk will tell you the mount point
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• 823[08:44:27] <watchcat> cp whatever.iso /dev/sdb then wait til you get a command prompt back.
• 824[08:44:28] <agio> of your USB
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• 826[08:45:17] <epic_null> I got a "cannot create regular file". Is it safe to just sudo it, or does this mean I'm doing it wrong?
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• 828[08:45:23] <agio> identify which block device mounts to / - and make sure you *DONT* make that the copy of your `cp' or `dd' command
• 829[08:46:06] <agio> sorry I meant: make sure you *DONT* make the / device the target of your `cp' or `dd' command
• 830[08:46:30] <watchcat> you need to do it with root privs, yeh.
• 831[08:46:35] <epic_null> Right - don't destroy my os
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• 833[08:47:23] <epic_null> Thank you - Now I have a new tool in my inventory
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• 836[08:48:41] <watchcat> use your new powers only for good.
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• 842[08:53:57] <epic_null> Tis too late - Thine new powers hath already been used for NEUTRAL!
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• 854[09:00:27] <agio> what makes a person turn neutral?
• 855[09:00:40] <agio> is it lust for gold? power?
• 856[09:00:58] <agio> or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
• 857[09:01:07] <watchcat> age
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• 860[09:02:08] <watchcat> the youthful spirit of idealism burns low and darkness creeps in.
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• 862[09:02:42] <m0rd3cai> anyone here have a samsung 850 ssd? looking for a list of firmware versions for drive to check on firmware versions. the installed firmware appears to be newer than what i can download from samsung.
• 863[09:03:14] <agio> how are you listing the firmware?
• 864[09:03:28] <epic_null> I mean Zap wasn't smart, but he did manage to raise a good question: How did the neutrals simultaniously build a society and become neutral
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• 868[09:04:54] <m0rd3cai> agio: im basing it off firmware version given by smartmontools and the version available from samsung.
• 869[09:05:18] <m0rd3cai> it shows my firmware is EMT03B6Q
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• 872[09:05:38] <m0rd3cai> but the newest from samsung site is EMT02B6Q. it would appear older to me
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• 966[10:32:56] <mrl5> hello, I would like to install debian on the VirtualBox VM. Is there any recomended partitioning scheme?
• 967[10:33:25] <mrl5> should I bother with LVM?
• 968[10:34:15] <tchakatak> Hello community. I'm switching from ubuntu to debian, and i have some questions. If i want to go to testing, sould i go to stable, and update after, or there is an iso for testing ? If i want the minimalest installation (No DE/WM etc...) wich one should i chose ?
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• 974[10:40:03] <CyberManifest> I'm missing $HOME/.local/bin from $PATH here on latest version of Raspbian, what's the proper way to add it ? Does it come before or after existing $PATH ?
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• 981[10:44:10] <tchakatak> CyberManifest: look at export
• 982[10:44:44] <CyberManifest> Linux manual entry for export, acquired from terminal command: 'man export':
• 983[10:44:50] <CyberManifest> I'm already aware of it
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• 1015[11:08:44] <Aqo> I don't know if this problem is even related to debian, but can someone please give a direction if they know what could it be? I'm trying to start a simple socket server with several different languages on my linux debian9 server
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• 1017[11:09:09] <Aqo> with Node.js it works fine, but when I try using PHP's "stream_socket_accept" built-in function, I get no connections
• 1018[11:09:21] <Aqo> tried using the same port so I'm sure the port is not blocked in a firewall or anything
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• 1020[11:09:45] <Aqo> on my local machine which is not unix both pieces of code work as expected (a browser is able to send a request via localhost and get a response)
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• 1022[11:10:27] <Aqo> is there anything on debian/linux that might be blocking processes from binding sockets or something that would prevent a certain type of process from being able to listen on a port?
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• 1098[12:00:43] <huhahu> hi I tried to join #debian next, but it says it is invite only, do you know how can i join it?
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• 1100[12:01:08] <Milkshake> ....
• 1101[12:01:09] <dutchfish> huhahu, OFTC ;)
• 1102[12:01:33] <huhahu> what's OFTC?
• 1103[12:02:07] <dutchfish> huhahu, you have to join #debian-next on the OFTC network
• 1104[12:02:25] <dutchfish> !OFTC
• 1105[12:02:26] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
• 1106[12:03:02] <huhahu> ok thank you
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• 1108[12:03:09] <dutchfish> yw
• 1109[12:03:34] <huhahu> out of curiosity, why are they in a different network
• 1110[12:04:03] <dutchfish> huhahu, mmm... i think to believe it is something created in the past.
• 1111[12:04:16] <dutchfish> huhahu, for a very long time this way.
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• 1114[12:05:19] <dutchfish> huhahu, it prolly goes back to time when the Debian distro saw daylight.
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• 1130[12:16:07] <huhahu> I am getting pulseaudio segmentation faults, can anyone help me to troubleshoot this?
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• 1139[12:19:45] <jelly> huhahu: if that's on the same testing system, the right place to ask is #debian-next on irc.oftc.net (or irc.debian.org, same thing) but I see you've already asked there
• 1140[12:20:15] <huhahu> yes, I am asking for general guideliness here
• 1141[12:20:42] <huhahu> probably part of the troubleshooting will be the same for testing than stable
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• 1239[13:38:47] <rabbitear_sdf> replaced-url
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• 1242[13:41:55] <abrotman> rabbitear_sdf: what about it?
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• 1278[14:07:39] <war9407> Anyone notice this after a recent apt-guet upgrade? -> Nov 17 06:52:55 system1 systemd-tmpfiles[19753]: [/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/munin-node.conf:2] Duplicate line for path "/run/munin", ignoring.
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• 1316[14:45:23] <bipul> Hi
• 1317[14:45:39] <bipul> Does anyone know how to Automating the installation using preseeding method in VirtualBox?
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• 1332[14:59:35] <Brigo> bipul, the installer in the advanced install section has an automatic install option maybe be it is what you are searching for.
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• 1334[15:02:07] <bipul> Brigo, Yes.
• 1335[15:02:21] <bipul> wait let me share you something
• 1336[15:03:42] <bipul> Actually i will next used it to install debian as well here is the code replaced-url
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• 1338[15:04:32] <bipul> But still i need to user interaction. So resolve that somebody suggested me to look on Preseeding methods
• 1339[15:04:52] <bipul> need to use user*
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• 1342[15:06:27] <Brigo> bipul, --iso=/Users/bipul/ubuntu-18.04.1-live-server-amd64.iso this is a live, i don't know how to handle that. I guess i would just copy it.
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• 1344[15:07:57] <jelly> also, it is not debian
• 1345[15:08:22] <bipul> It will be debian sooner :D
• 1346[15:08:57] <jelly> come ask again when you're installing debian, bipul
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• 1350[15:09:27] <bipul> Okay between i have the .iso for debian as well next to it
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• 1352[15:10:22] <jelly> replaced-url
• 1353[15:11:31] <bipul> jelly, Thank you.
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• 1356[15:12:07] <jelly> eh, that's not a lot more helpful than the install guide
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• 1358[15:12:34] <bipul> means?
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• 1364[15:16:43] <jelly> means you shouldn't thank me before checking how useful the resources I pointed to actually are
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• 1368[15:17:36] <bipul> okay
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• 1379[15:22:09] <cactusat1ack> I'm trying to encrypt NFS, and am looking for a tutorial to help with this
• 1380[15:22:15] <cactusat1ack> does anyone have any suggestions?
• 1381[15:22:20] <cactusat1ack> replaced-url
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• 1416[15:38:16] <hk238> Hello. I'm thinking about changing the DE to something else from KDE. Does anyone if there are any differences between the DEs when it comes to security?
• 1417[15:39:17] <hk238> I mostly care about customizability and practicality over visual aesthetics or rather over visual effects, since I do think that simple desktops can look pleasant. But I'm wondering if the lack of development on some DEs results to poor security, or on the other hand, if the richer content of some DEs comes with more security vulnerabilities too.. So I'm undecisive again. :D
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• 1426[15:42:21] <nkuttler> hk238: which security concerns do you have?
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• 1428[15:42:37] <hk238> I don't know, I understand much about this stuff
• 1429[15:42:52] <pingfloyd> hk238: have you used xfce?
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• 1432[15:43:17] <pingfloyd> hk238: it's pretty much what you described
• 1433[15:43:18] <hk238> Yeah I think I have tried it
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• 1435[15:43:39] <hk238> What about the security perspective?
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• 1437[15:44:00] <pingfloyd> DE choices shouldn't have much impact on that
• 1438[15:44:03] <nkuttler> if you have no threat in mind..
• 1439[15:44:06] * nkuttler shrugs
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• 1441[15:44:17] <pingfloyd> it's other aspects that impact that
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• 1443[15:44:26] <nkuttler> i'd argue DEs are potentially less secure because they make stuff "easier"
• 1444[15:44:39] <nkuttler> like, you can click on things to run them, but meh..
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• 1450[15:45:30] <pingfloyd> easier to accidentally execute in them yes
• 1451[15:45:54] <pingfloyd> it's more X itself that has security implications
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• 1701[18:37:52] <davanger> Hi, can you guys recommend something new to play with? Or setup at home?
• 1702[18:38:23] <davanger> I recently discovered dnscrypt-proxy. Got that setup in my raspberry with also has bind caching...
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• 1705[18:39:03] <butteredpopcorn> wireguard
• 1706[18:39:15] *** Quits: astrofog (~astrofog@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1707[18:39:48] <davanger> Is it better than openvpn?
• 1708[18:39:52] *** Joins: SomebodySocks (~felix@replaced-ip)
• 1709[18:39:55] <davanger> Ive got that setup at router level...
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• 1711[18:40:24] <butteredpopcorn> Its the new hotness
• 1712[18:40:30] <butteredpopcorn> And has really good reviews
• 1713[18:40:31] <davanger> ah
• 1714[18:40:43] <butteredpopcorn> I'm not sure if its upstream in the kernel though yet
• 1715[18:40:53] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 1716[18:41:00] <butteredpopcorn> It is something to play with though :)
• 1717[18:41:07] <davanger> Thanks ;)
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• 1720[18:43:37] <davanger> is there such a thing as a chat app that uses define encryption and private/public keys?
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• 1725[18:44:51] <davanger> Kind of like a chat app with pgp
• 1726[18:45:46] <butteredpopcorn> matrix/riot might?
• 1727[18:45:54] <BjoernC> test if i can write to channel...
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• 1731[18:47:03] <Ede|Popede> yes you can
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• 1733[18:47:12] <cybercrypto> yes, you can
• 1734[18:47:14] <cybercrypto> :-)
• 1735[18:47:20] <BjoernC> OK then my question: During startup, my server (debian stretch @ dell T320) gets an ip address on eno2, but eno1 doesn't get any adress. executing dhclient works, but i want to get an adress directly after startup without manually executing dhclient.. anybody an idea what might have gone wrong?
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• 1738[18:48:29] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: Do you want an IP from dhcp or you want a fixed IP always?
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• 1740[18:51:05] <n_1-c_k> davanger: gajim-pgp might be of interest.
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• 1742[18:51:43] <davanger> I don't know how this hasn't been done yet...
• 1743[18:52:07] <davanger> I mean for Android/IOS web. etc
• 1744[18:52:53] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: a fixed one is better in my opinion and i wanted to do that later, but for testing purposes (i had some troubles with my network) i used dhcp; but as eno1 doesn't work properly right now i can stick directly to a fixed address :)
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• 1749[18:54:21] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: Ok. you will have a fixed IP later, good. That means that for now you want a DHCP IP adress for you NIC. The only NIC working is eno2 I assume from your chat... correct?
• 1750[18:55:08] <BjoernC> no I'm chatting with my notebook, eno2 and eno1 is working, but on startup only eno2 gets an IP
• 1751[18:55:37] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: and I'm connected via SSH to the server right now..
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• 1753[18:57:01] <cybercrypto> the SSH connection depends on the nic_eno2? or you are using a ILO (ALOM) port?
• 1754[18:57:27] <BjoernC> I'm connected via eno2
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• 1756[18:58:24] <cybercrypto> wow :-)
• 1757[18:58:39] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: ya vist...
• 1758[18:59:48] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: what is the issue when you try to assign an IP to nic_eno1? (assuming that you dont want to change eno2, since it is the only way for remote admin)
• 1759[19:00:49] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1760[19:00:51] <BjoernC> there is no issue, the only thing is that eno1 which should obtain it's adress on startup doesn't get any adress unless i manually type dhclient eno1
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• 1764[19:02:41] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: you getting IP using netconfig scripts or networkmanager service?
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• 1766[19:03:44] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: And now I'm not quite sure whats happening - my plan was in the future to assign a static adress but as the port doesn't get an ip automatically i think getting a step further and assign a static adress would be less painful as debugging why eno1 doesn't get any adress at startup, right?
• 1767[19:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1430
• 1768[19:04:14] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: I'm not really sure what's the standard after installation? I guess networkmanager?
• 1769[19:04:31] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: :-\ i am wondering what to do... I had few problems past month using udev to manage devices...
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• 1772[19:06:44] <BjoernC> ah ok network manager is running in the background and thinks eno2 is the "wired connection 1" :/
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• 1774[19:07:03] <davanger> Have you guys done a Kurbernates setup?
• 1775[19:07:23] *** Quits: LinuxFire (~LinuxFire@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1776[19:07:27] <davanger> Well I mean a container configuration...
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• 1781[19:08:40] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: well i have some troubles with some optical drives as well - they require a full power off if they get into any ambiguous state. But thanks for the hint with network manager; I guess there would be the root of my problem :)
• 1782[19:09:19] <bites> i'm building a k8s cluster and use lxd in production.
• 1783[19:09:37] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: standard from a basic system does not rely on networkmananger service. It is configured via scripts sort to say. try look into /etc/systemd/network/dhcp.network
• 1784[19:10:44] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: Also check the /etc/network/interfaces if you have changed the ETH former name to EN fresly new ones...
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• 1786[19:11:19] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: debugging that is not difficult... but is a bit boring and takes some time... sorry.
• 1787[19:11:58] <davanger> Can you run windows machines in lxd and k8s?
• 1788[19:12:16] <bites> no, containers share a kernel with the host system.
• 1789[19:12:25] <davanger> hmm
• 1790[19:12:27] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: yes, it is and to be honest, the more i get those troubles, the more i like idrac :) But idrac sometimes saves my ass ^^
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• 1793[19:12:39] <davanger> Is there any solution that can run windows?
• 1794[19:12:47] <bites> VMs
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• 1796[19:13:22] <davanger> Is there something that can be used we Kubernetes?
• 1797[19:13:27] <davanger> with*
• 1798[19:13:51] <davanger> Its not .net apps that haven't been ported to .net core
• 1799[19:13:55] <davanger> for*
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• 1805[19:18:39] <bites> there is a vm addon for k8s. never used it. there are probably better places to ask.
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• 1807[19:18:51] <bites> #kubernetes maybe.
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• 1810[19:19:54] <davanger> What the hell dude! You don't know????
• 1811[19:20:03] <davanger> Lol ;)
• 1812[19:20:35] <bites> i don't.
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• 1814[19:22:37] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: are det bra! Hope you find the root cause for the failure. If not, get back and we can try different net setups.
• 1815[19:22:48] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: your hint was very good; now I'm getting more into this problem ;) nm is running and my guess is, as only one ethernet connection is configured it does what it should do, it configures one ethernet connection; I'm not so far to know, why it worked before with only eno1 but it seems that this would be the main issue. Thanks again!
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• 1817[19:24:05] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: good to hear. as you may know, NM requires a kind of 'profile' for each NIC you want to enable. Perhaps you have a single one profile configured?
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• 1819[19:24:21] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: Maybe it's a racing condition which interface comes up first but i will have to digg a littlebit deeper into that, now it's an informed guess i would say...
• 1820[19:24:42] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: try adding another one... i think it may help.
• 1821[19:25:13] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: yep that's what i want to do next and have a look into the docs how to do that. :)
• 1822[19:25:23] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: Dont forget to disable dhcpdc services as well. (it is not required when NM is running)
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• 1824[19:26:04] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: firstly i thought checking if i add eno1 into infaces to use dhcp would be enough, because then nm doesn't use eno1 any more...
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• 1826[19:27:04] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: thanks alot :D if you write more, then i owe you a beer :)
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• 1830[19:29:47] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: no problem... I had NIC problems in the past and I got help in this very same #debian channel from a unkown colleague.... we all learn doing that.... ##cheers
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• 1837[19:34:24] <HyP3r> Hello, I have updated my debian jessie 8 to debian 9. Now I have some questions about the switch from mysql to mariadb. In the /etc/mysql folder I had the file my.cnf
• 1838[19:34:35] <HyP3r> Now this file is renamed to my.cnf.migrated
• 1839[19:35:17] <HyP3r> And if I do some changes to this file (setting some variables). Those variables will be read by mariadb.
• 1840[19:35:25] <HyP3r> But I don't know how?
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• 1842[19:35:50] <HyP3r> Where is the include statement in the other configs?
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• 1846[19:36:47] <HyP3r> I thought the first file mariadb is reading is the /etc/mysql/mariadb.cnf <-?
• 1847[19:37:11] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: that's why i bought me a server ;) I used Linux for several years and well i have forgotten so many things like setting up a network with VLAN's and so on; My plan is to get an own DNS-Server for my services like plex, nextcloud in a VM environment like KVM or EXSI i did such things maybe 10 years ago and now i realize there are so many things changed (which is obvously good) and sometimes like this issue i have to read, read,
• 1848[19:37:12] <trysten> where can i read about debians convention of ~/bin?
• 1849[19:37:12] <BjoernC> read and learn new things - that's fun although it sounds weird, it's fun to me :)
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• 1854[19:41:39] <at0m> trysten: replaced-url
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• 1860[19:45:08] <oo_miguel> I wonder why lsmod show nouveau is loaded while dmeseg tells me that my chipset is unsuported (unknown chipset)
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• 1862[19:45:44] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: Correct. Lots of improvements indeed. :-) I really like Debian for the serious way of testing 'stable'. I am also a slackware user since 1998. We always learn. If you are up to real challenge, try installing #gentoo as well. you will get very familiar with linux/gnu tools and the way things works.
• 1863[19:45:44] <oo_miguel> I thought kernel modules get only loaded if they support the hardware present
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• 1866[19:47:26] <at0m> oo_miguel: i would run 'nvidia-detect' (apt install if needed) and see what advise comes from that
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• 1869[19:48:10] <oo_miguel> at0m: I am on debian stable and have a rtx2080 which is not supported via apt. I installed the official nvidia drivers from their website.
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• 1872[19:48:26] <oo_miguel> still I wonder why/if I have to blacklist nouveau
• 1873[19:48:37] <oo_miguel> as it does NOT support my card anyway
• 1874[19:48:49] <at0m> no idea
• 1875[19:49:09] <linuxthefish> hey I've set the essid of my wireless network using "iwconfig wlan0 essid networkname", but when I run iwconfig it's still not associated with the network! no keys or password needed
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• 1879[19:49:47] <linuxthefish> I wish it did have a password then I could connect using the interfaces file!
• 1880[19:49:55] <at0m> oo_miguel: are you sure no nvidia drivers in debian support your card? did you run nvidia-detect? nvidia-detect may also advise on proprietary nvidia drivers. installing from their site is uhm totally not debian.
• 1881[19:50:25] <at0m> oo_miguel: for non-free debian drivers, did you enable the non-free repo's in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
• 1882[19:50:27] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: for now i have enough stuff in my current project, one of the task is to save all my blurays and dvd's (> 900 Movies) :D
• 1883[19:50:57] <at0m> BjoernC: have fun
• 1884[19:51:24] <BjoernC> at0m: thx
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• 1887[19:52:19] <oo_miguel> at0m: yeah I checked the one from non-free and even from backports
• 1888[19:52:29] <oo_miguel> they are alle yet to old. I would prefer to do it the "debian" Way
• 1889[19:52:31] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: hehehehe good luck with that
• 1890[19:52:46] <oo_miguel> but I have to wait
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• 1893[19:53:20] <oo_miguel> doing it the "debian-way" would probably blacklist nouveau for me
• 1894[19:53:28] <at0m> oki
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• 1897[19:53:52] <oo_miguel> nvm, I will just levae it as is and check in a while if the driver in backports gets updated
• 1898[19:54:06] <oo_miguel> at0m: thank you
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• 1913[19:58:54] <jhutchins> Since upgrading to stretch I'm getting GLX failures with the Nvidia supplied drivers.
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• 1918[20:01:35] <HyP3r> Ah I guess I now understand this: mariadb is always reading the /etc/mysql/my.cnf (which is a bit strange because the database is called mariadb) and this file is then pointing to /etc/alternatives/my.cnf and this is pointing to the /etc/mysql/mariadb.cnf
• 1919[20:02:30] <oo_miguel> HyP3r: mariadb is a drop-in replacement for mysql. probably that's why it uses the same configs per default
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• 1924[20:04:46] <jhutchins> ,v nvidia-driver
• 1925[20:04:47] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.130-1~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 384.130-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.87-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 390.87-3; sid/non-free: 390.87-3; experimental/non-free: 396.54-2
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• 1942[20:16:01] <jhutchins> Seems like apt should respect the installation of the proprietary drivers during a dist-upgrade. Instead, it's left them in place but installed and enabled noveau, and has not installed the required packages for continued GLX support.
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• 1944[20:18:35] <jhutchins> It's a well known condition that the Debian-packaged drivers lag the release of new cards and that the nvidia-supplied drivers are sometimes required for newer cards.
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• 1958[20:25:55] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: you are right, it's really borring and from time to time frustrating to change those settings by hand :D
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• 1994[20:55:21] <cybercrypto> BjoernC: yeap. Sometimes tools like nm came in hand, so we can focus our time into the project goals.
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• 1997[20:58:47] <fuxxy> deluge-web.service is dependant on deluged.service. Is there a way to automatically {start/stop/restart} deluge-web when I issue a 'systemctl {start/stop/restart} deluged' ?
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• 2000[21:00:48] <Forty-Bot> is there a mingw-w64-cmake package like for arch or fedora?
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• 2002[21:02:42] <fuxxy> Forty-Bot, mingw-w64 does not include cmake?
• 2003[21:02:49] <Forty-Bot> I don't think so
• 2004[21:03:15] <Forty-Bot> it depends on the gcc mingw packages
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• 2007[21:03:21] <Forty-Bot> and those don't have cmake in them
• 2008[21:03:27] <fuxxy> mingw-w64 says "This metapackage provides the MinGW-w64 development environment, including C and C++ compilers. Ada, Fortran, Objective-C and Objective-C++ compilers are available respectively in the gnat-mingw-w64, gfortran-mingw-w64, gobjc-mingw-w64 and gojbc++-mingw-w64 packages."
• 2009[21:03:33] <Forty-Bot> could be wrong, as I don't have a debian system in front of me
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• 2013[21:09:32] <Forty-Bot> fuxxy: nope, cmake is missing
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• 2016[21:12:13] <Forty-Bot> currently, I am just cloning replaced-url
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• 2036[21:24:51] <BjoernC> cybercrypto: that's true, I'm wondering why my samba shares aren't working at bootup :D Sometimes you solve one problem an get a dozen new :) I guess it's because the second net is also connected to the samba server and different routes are used which confuses cifs to some extend ^^
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• 2083[22:11:10] <Iarfen> hi!
• 2084[22:11:24] <Iarfen> how I can install my radeon graphic card inside debian?
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• 2088[22:14:22] <diogenes_> Iarfen, what do you mean install?
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• 2095[22:17:29] <__0xbad_> hello fellas
• 2096[22:17:46] <__0xbad_> I wanted to install debian testing
• 2097[22:18:07] <__0xbad_> so I got the netinst AMD64 iso.
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• 2099[22:18:43] <__0xbad_> (from here: replaced-url
• 2100[22:18:48] <__0xbad_> I didnt install a desktop
• 2101[22:19:38] <__0xbad_> dpkg: LDCONFIG not found in path or not executable
• 2102[22:19:38] <dpkg> __0xbad_: wish i knew
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• 2104[22:20:14] <__0xbad_> am I doing it correctly to get Debian testing going?
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• 2106[22:21:49] <blindvt> hi. Anybody from DebianPerl team around, by chance?
• 2107[22:22:05] <cybercrypto> :-) nope
• 2108[22:22:15] <__0xbad_> there are a bunch of commands not found... sudo is not there either
• 2109[22:22:23] <__0xbad_> so ... are these tools that come with the desktop
• 2110[22:22:33] <__0xbad_> (I have skipped that on the installation)
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• 2116[22:24:24] <blindvt> cybercrypto, heh ;) well i'd need somebody to give Crypt-OpenSSL-VerifyX509 some cluebait, specifically to fix or simply apply replaced-url
• 2117[22:24:53] <blindvt> *blink* :)
• 2118[22:25:08] <__0xbad_> help?
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• 2123[22:28:39] <cybercrypto> blindvt: :-) sorry, I cant
• 2124[22:28:45] <__0xbad_> am I.. in the wrong channel ?
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• 2126[22:29:56] * blindvt nods cybercrypto
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• 2129[22:31:39] <cybercrypto> blindvt: not quite sure if this is a wrong channel case.... i guess not. anyway.. try posting the same into the #perl
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• 2131[22:33:49] <blindvt> cybercrypto, i'll try the debian-perl list
• 2132[22:35:43] <__0xbad_> thanks 4 the help
• 2133[22:35:50] <Ede|Popede> __0xbad_ netinst is missing some things, yes. minimal. and then i'm quite sure there's no desktop, you'd need the tasks
• 2134[22:35:57] <Ede|Popede> and then:
• 2135[22:36:00] <Ede|Popede> !testing
• 2136[22:36:01] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See replaced-url
• 2137[22:36:31] <Ede|Popede> for my part i have no idea so far of how different stable and testing are after install
• 2138[22:37:21] <Ede|Popede> __0xbad_ did you read the errata?
• 2139[22:37:40] <__0xbad_> nope
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• 2142[22:38:47] <Ede|Popede> __0xbad_ it is linked on the page you just linked
• 2143[22:40:03] <__0xbad_> are you kidding me?
• 2144[22:40:12] <__0xbad_> have you checked the errata?
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• 2147[22:42:44] <Ede|Popede> > Due to space constraints on the first CD, not all of the expected GNOME desktop packages fit on CD#1. For a successful installation, use extra package sources (e.g. a second CD or a network mirror) or use a DVD instead.
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• 2150[22:42:56] <Ede|Popede> i'd expect this even more for the netinst.
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• 2152[22:44:09] <Iarfen> diogenes_: to install the drivers :D
• 2153[22:45:58] <__0xbad_> Are you... ok?
• 2154[22:46:08] <__0xbad_> net install does not use cds as repos...
• 2155[22:46:20] <__0xbad_> it will fetch everything from *online* repos
• 2156[22:47:09] <zleap> iirc netinstal is minimal for that reason you get the system you want, just takes longer
• 2157[22:47:41] <watchcat> Iarfen: check out firmware-amd-graphics to see if it covers your card.
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• 2160[22:48:34] <Ede|Popede> was LDCONFIG really printed in CAPITALS?
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• 2162[22:49:36] <Iarfen> watchcat: where?
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• 2165[22:50:20] <watchcat> and the upper-case i that looks like a lower-case L in your nick might cause you to lose some responses, btw. in the debian repo.
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• 2177[22:59:34] <aphorise> joepublic still no success with latest kernels 4.18 nor 4.17 they didnt even boot properly actuualy - wondering how to get 4.15 like mxlinux.
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• 2197[23:11:33] <CyberManifest> Anyone know how add my own user to this list: replaced-url
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• 2199[23:12:15] <joepublic> aphorise, you are talking about them not booting in a live environment, right?
• 2200[23:13:25] <CyberManifest> I followed this guide: replaced-url
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• 2204[23:15:25] <joepublic> CyberManifest, perhaps see whether your desired user is in the same groups as the user that actually works.
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• 2206[23:15:58] <CyberManifest> joepublic: how do I know the proper group?
• 2207[23:16:10] <CyberManifest> joepublic: the user in question is already in "sudo" group
• 2208[23:16:29] <joepublic> CyberManifest, it might say the proper group somewhere in the file /etc/sudoers
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• 2210[23:17:10] <CyberManifest> joepublic: from that link replaced-url
• 2211[23:18:54] <joepublic> perhaps log in as the account that works and type groups to see what groups it belongs to. Then log in as the account that doesn't work and type groups and see which ones, if any, are missing. this can give a clue.
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• 2217[23:22:55] <cybercrypto> blindvt: Great, i think thats even better.
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