People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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12 [00:04:43] <watchcat> in case of config in both network/interfaces and network-manager, which takes precedence?
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14 [00:05:46] <linuxthefish> watchcat: interfaces file
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23 [00:09:21] <watchcat> thanks linuxthefish
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52 [00:20:17] <scatterbrainz> hello debian family :)
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54 [00:20:34] <linuxthefish> SerajewelKS pre-up doesn't work in the interfaces file btw
55 [00:20:38] <linuxthefish> it says misplaced option
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59 [00:21:22] <linuxthefish> rc.local is the best option to run iwconfig commands...
60 [00:21:34] <scatterbrainz> i have a question -> does boot grub during installation -> go on the /boot directory? or in the / directory?
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66 [00:23:12] <egs0> I'm trying to mount a raid array which is already assembled at startup but "mount /dev/md0 /mnt/raid" throws an "unknown filesystem swap", anyone know what the problem might be?
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99 [00:36:36] <linuxthefish> I swear that if networking fucks up one more time I'm going to go and make some acetone peroxide, then buy the biggest knife I can find and murder everyone who has pissed me off before
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102 [00:37:07] <egs0> I'm trying to mount a raid array which is already assembled at startup but "mount /dev/md0 /mnt/raid" throws an "unknown filesystem swap", anyone know what the problem might be?
103 [00:37:28] <linuxthefish> but that's a bit too harsh so I'll stick with my former plan of jumping off the roof of my town hall building in the messiest way possible at the busiest time of the week :)
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107 [00:41:28] <linuxthefish> egs0 try -t ext4 or whatever filesystem it is?
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109 [00:42:17] <linuxthefish> what does "file -s /dev/md0" say it is
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146 [01:00:23] <TyrfingMjolnir> jelly-home: Needs to be 19" rack mount
147 [01:00:42] <TyrfingMjolnir> Tired of having stuff the cleaning lady puts in the trash
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170 [01:18:13] <Hijiri> hi
171 [01:18:15] <Hijiri> I'm getting some periodic freezing an dI suspect it is due to file fragmentation on btrfs since iotop shows btrfs-transaction doing a lot of stuff
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173 [01:18:19] <Hijiri> I tried defragmenting my home directory and my media directory but I'm still getting them
174 [01:18:33] <Hijiri> Is there a good way to find which files are fragmented
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177 [01:19:09] <Hijiri> Or is it possible to remount with autodefrag without closing everything
178 [01:20:45] <Hijiri> sometimes the freezes last tens of seconds
179 [01:22:00] <Hijiri> I turned off swap so I know that's not the problem
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183 [01:22:53] <aloo_shu> how could I go about in order to, preferrably independent of the DE, increase the size of all display elements & fonts ? I.e. I'd like debian to behave as if it had only a small screen, but still use the full resolution. Does that make sense?
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185 [01:23:41] <agio> aloo_shu: are you still trying to run debian in a chroot in certain DE on android?
186 [01:23:55] <aloo_shu> exactly
187 [01:24:07] <agio> what was the DE again?
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189 [01:24:18] <aloo_shu> matchbox, agio
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191 [01:24:34] <agio> cool. interesting problem
192 [01:25:00] <agio> and you didn't get any help in #android-dev ?
193 [01:26:15] <aloo_shu> agio: but I'm afraid I'd have to adjust for, desktop, panel, etc. separately, and still have illegibly small fonts & buttons in app windows
194 [01:26:59] <agio> what is the X-server in this chroot env?
195 [01:27:14] <aloo_shu> agio: no, that day I didn't, and also, it's not an andrpid problem, it's a linux problem. It *could* be a X problem
196 [01:27:44] <aloo_shu> agio: I think ordinary Xorg, using framebuffer driver
197 [01:28:09] <agio> can you define screen resolution in Xorg then?
198 [01:29:08] <aloo_shu> I think not even that, wouldn't that depend on the underlying driver's capacity to switch?
199 [01:29:57] <agio> I think what you basically want is for is for the UI objects to be rendered at large pixel dimensions
200 [01:30:22] <agio> because you have a high density screen ,right?
201 [01:30:28] <aloo_shu> but even if I could, I do not want to really reduce screen size, I want all things rendered larger *as if* screen size were smaller
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204 [01:32:30] <agio> aloo_shu: so is your current problem, text, UI elements like buttons etc are tiny in the matchbox DE?
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207 [01:32:37] <aloo_shu> yep, that's the prob, high density screen here, but it's a problem other people may have in other situations, too; I, for instance, occasionally adapt linux for old people, and there, one would also like find the magical all-in-one-spot setting
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210 [01:33:27] <Hijiri> actually my computer has been frozen for like 15 minutes now
211 [01:33:35] <agio> aloo_shu: are you familiar with the <meta name="viewport" .. HTML element?
212 [01:34:00] <agio> it does the behaviours you are wanting - I think
213 [01:34:14] <agio> although obviously different environment
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215 [01:34:23] <aloo_shu> agio: yes, that's it. I have managed to increase *some* elements, e.g. by passing a --dpi argument to X, but obviously only part of the apps seem to depend on that
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218 [01:35:50] <aloo_shu> agio meta name="viewport ,no , which config file would that be, and which man page to read up on it?
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220 [01:36:10] <agio> what does android use natively to provide Xorg functionality?
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223 [01:37:36] <agio> aloo_shu: the <meta viewport/> tag is a just a scheme which solves the problems you have- but its for web platform - you can't use with Xorg (except when running web app's inside it
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225 [01:37:58] <agio> I only mentioned it because its concepts are relevat
226 [01:38:02] <agio> relevant
227 [01:38:24] <agio> i.e. you want to render object with large pixel values
228 [01:38:52] <agio> but you don't want to "zoom" everything
229 [01:39:07] <agio> becuase things will become pixellated
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232 [01:40:58] <aloo_shu> agio , mistake, android doesn't provide X functionality at all. There are two android apps that do, and you can let debian in a chroot connect to them, e.g. by ssh over localhost, but this is not the way my implemention is going. It is bind-mounting /dev onto the chroot, and running native debian Xorg, with the --sharevts argument, which tells X to write to framebuffer even if it cannot get an exclusive lock on it. Looks ugly whila android is updating, bu
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235 [01:42:09] <aloo_shu> agio: and as you have guessed correctly, I do not want to zoom/pan etc, I've thought about xrandr, too, but not really had any good ideas
236 [01:42:16] <aloo_shu> (yet)
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245 [01:44:24] <aloo_shu> genius concept, because if everything works, you can eventually *turn off* the andrlid part of android, i.e. 'am stop'
246 [01:44:43] <aloo_shu> *android*
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250 [01:46:01] <agio> so with the bindmounting, you're running a regular Xorg in the chroot, but instead of it being connected to a real screen its connected to a device file (which is mapped against the android app running in the android "host")
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252 [01:46:19] <aloo_shu> no
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255 [01:46:38] <aloo_shu> it's getting the real display device
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259 [01:47:24] <agio> via the bindmount?
260 [01:47:27] <aloo_shu> both android and Xorg share the same framebuffer device, that's why it's looking ugly (at first)
261 [01:47:39] <aloo_shu> yes, via the bindmount
262 [01:47:57] <agio> because normally the real display device wouldn't be available in the chroot - right?
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264 [01:48:54] <agio> have you considered wayland?
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271 [01:50:02] <aloo_shu> well, you always do some bind-mounting before firing up a chroot, stuf like /proc /run /sys, and normally, /dev, too, unless you don't want the chroot to access any device, which would be pretty limiting
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277 [01:51:23] <agio> of course
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279 [01:53:08] <aloo_shu> my device is rooted, so the scripts that start the chroot can run as root, and inside the chroot, my debian root account is enabled, for the kernel, both root accounts are identicall, so there's no barrier to accessing anything from within the chroot unless I'm putting one
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281 [01:53:40] <aloo_shu> that includes the display
282 [01:54:13] <aloo_shu> audio also tested
283 [01:54:17] <maxrazer> Anyone use IceWM and notice uxterm has no icon in the taskbar?
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286 [01:55:50] <agio> aloo_shu: how are you performing all the commands for setting this up? are you running a shell in a laptop connected to android device via USB?
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289 [01:56:11] <aloo_shu> it's a bit 'dirty' to let two OSs access audio & display at the same time, but it can be done (surprise)
290 [01:56:31] <aloo_shu> agio no tethering
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293 [01:57:04] <agio> so you are running a shell inside android? like termux or something?
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295 [01:57:18] <agio> and using android keyboard?
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298 [01:59:48] <aloo_shu> yes, I'm using a terminal emulator from android side, but once I have logged into debian and started a matchbox session, I have a (working!) on-screen keyboard, too, thanks to pointing X to the correct input device and reading touch input as mouse
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301 [02:01:01] <aloo_shu> the fact that the matchbox DE comes with a virtual kbd is actually why I've decided to try it (plus, it's small)
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308 [02:01:43] <agio> would it be easier if you could plug in a real keyboard via USB?
309 [02:02:12] <agio> while you are doing all this setup work?
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314 [02:03:43] <aloo_shu> much easier, but I can't. BT kbd could be a middle way, but hey, I enjoy all this hacking, using just the bare device, and I'm short on resources in any sense (solar energy availability, cash..)
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316 [02:04:07] <aloo_shu> the hardware doesn't even have USB OTG
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318 [02:04:56] <agio> OTG?
319 [02:05:18] <aloo_shu> it would be a distant aim to figure if with the right modules, the hw (omap) actually *has* usb host capabilitirs
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322 [02:06:22] <aloo_shu> usb OnTheGo, a reduced USB host implemention requiring a special micro usb male to usb female cable
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324 [02:07:18] <aloo_shu> so that you can connect at least a kbd, mass storage or a photo camera to your handheld device
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329 [02:09:37] <agio> yes, I use a microUSB to female (full) USB to connect a mouse to my android. I didn't know it was call USB OTG though, thanks
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334 [02:10:42] <aloo_shu> I mean, I could just do a step back and set a priority: how do I configure font size for xterm only? and preferrably set it to a 'dark' theme, too?
335 [02:11:22] <Hijiri> ok I just decided to set autodefrag and restart
336 [02:11:37] <Hijiri> stll need to see if it will stay unfreezed for a long time
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338 [02:12:08] <aloo_shu> otg isn't full, agio, more specialised stuff like e.g. an external soundcard will likely not run, although usb audio class compliant
339 [02:12:25] <agio> aloo_shu: try starting xterm something like:
340 [02:12:31] <agio> xterm -ft 'xft:DejaVu Sans Mono:pixelsize=13'
341 [02:12:34] *** Quits: vizius00 (~vizius00@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
342 [02:12:42] <agio> where -ft is font
343 [02:12:48] <agio> option
344 [02:12:57] <aloo_shu> ah,
345 [02:13:00] <agio> and that string is font-config font spec
346 [02:13:08] <BCMM> agio: basically usb is not peer-to-peer like firewire. it's inherently a master/slave protocol
347 [02:13:10] <aloo_shu> lemme copy that
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349 [02:14:03] <aloo_shu> ah, agio, so there's likely a man 5 page to it :)
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351 [02:14:19] <agio> aloo_shu: your X might not have "DevaVu Sans" but xterms font config - will prob fall back to whatever sans font you have
352 [02:14:27] <BCMM> agio: just because you can find a set of adaptors to connect two devices together doesn't mean they can actually communicate
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354 [02:15:04] <BCMM> agio: otg devices have special ports which are able to switch which role they play
355 [02:15:51] <BCMM> but there is no purely software way to make something that has a usb port act as a host, if that port is not designed for it
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357 [02:16:04] <agio> BCMM: I still don't understand why OTG is necessary to enable a micro - to full USB cable?
358 [02:16:12] <aloo_shu> agio I'm actually sure I did install the complete DejaVu inc. -extras recently, in a different context, so probably even that literal line works
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360 [02:16:53] <aloo_shu> only that =13 will be =36 rather :)
361 [02:16:54] <BCMM> agio: the usual way the usb port on a phone is used is for the phone to be a usb device, plugged in to a usb host (typically a pc)
362 [02:17:01] <BCMM> agio: to do mtp, for example
363 [02:17:05] <agio> aloo_shu: if you are interested, you can set a font config env var to show debug output - but is the pixelsize setting working for you?
364 [02:17:25] <aloo_shu> not yet tried
365 [02:17:36] <BCMM> agio: otg is what enables that port to act as a host instead, so it can communicate with a slave device like a mouse, instead of *being* the slave device like it normally is
366 [02:17:41] <aloo_shu> hang on 5-10 min
367 [02:18:00] <agio> BCMM: ah, that explains perfectly :)
368 [02:18:35] <BCMM> agio: the cable isn't weird because it goes between micro and full sized, it's weird because it's goes from (micro) USB B to *female* USB A
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370 [02:18:59] <BCMM> agio: and microUSB B connectors were, originally, for devices not hosts
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372 [02:20:14] <BCMM> (but the cable itself is not unusual electronically - it's the usb controller on the phone that does the role-switching magic)
373 [02:21:28] <agio> makes sense
374 [02:22:11] <agio> so when in OTG "mode" you could tether to the phone and use the phone as a slave?
375 [02:22:36] <agio> sorry I meant *could NOT tether to phone*
376 [02:23:12] *** Quits: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
377 [02:23:13] <agio> becaause in OTG phone is now "master"
378 [02:23:14] <AndyChow888> There are a lot of weird cables, and dongles, to convert USB. Most micro USB female to female USB A that I have are dongles (or adapters). One I have is shaped like an android, clearly to connect a keyboard or mouse to an android phone.
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380 [02:23:41] <BCMM> agio: yeah, that sort of thing
381 [02:23:45] <AndyChow888> OTG also allows power charging, sometimes. It's hardware dependent.
382 [02:24:12] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip ) (Quit: relax harder)
383 [02:24:13] <BCMM> agio: well, otg is the ability to switch. "host mode" is the thing it's in when you connect a mouse
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387 [02:24:53] <BCMM> incidentally this is why you can't just put a dumb cable between two computers and do USB networking, whereas you can do that with firewire
388 [02:25:21] <BCMM> desktop computers are practically always incapable of *not* acting as USB hosts
389 [02:25:37] <AndyChow888> You might be able to connect a dumb USB cable between computer and do USB networking. Some support that.
390 [02:25:59] <BCMM> AndyChow888: which computers, for example?
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395 [02:27:01] <SerajewelKS> i'm pretty sure windows has supported creating a private network over USB for a long time, and i've never had that fail when using it
396 [02:27:04] <AndyChow888> BCMM, there is an ASUS one I saw once, ASUS motherboard.
397 [02:27:07] <SerajewelKS> so my guess would be "most computers"
398 [02:27:11] <agio> aloo_shu: did that command work for setting your xterm font size?
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400 [02:27:48] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: using what sort of cable, exactly?
401 [02:27:50] <AndyChow888> The RNDIS protocol.
402 [02:28:22] <SerajewelKS> looks like that wizard was removed in win10 tho
403 [02:28:34] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: just a standard type-a to type-a
404 [02:28:41] <AndyChow888> Ok, seems most of those cables use a smart chip in them.
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406 [02:28:45] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: that's really not a thing on standard hardware
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408 [02:29:25] <SerajewelKS> or maybe it was a bridged cable
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410 [02:29:27] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: which is why you can buy special, somewhat pricy "cables" that have electronics in a little box in the middle
411 [02:29:29] <AndyChow888> But there was an ASUS motherboard that did allow it, once. On a specific USB port.
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413 [02:29:50] <BCMM> bridged cables are not really USB cables - they have electronics in the middle to basically emulate two usb ethernet adaptors
414 [02:30:04] <agio> SerajewelKS: what does a "bridged cable" do?
415 [02:30:09] <aloo_shu> no, not yet, agio, but the way I was doing it, it's slow to debug, I edit the desktop launcher for xterm - once I'm in graphical debian, I have no other terminal. That's where setting up adb *could* be useful, but no power for laptop w/o sunny days
416 [02:30:32] <SerajewelKS> agio: what BCMM just said
417 [02:30:52] <agio> right
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419 [02:30:55] <AndyChow888> You also have usb cables that do UART, but that also has a chip in them.
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421 [02:31:28] <aloo_shu> gonna read man pages now from non-graphical login via android term emulator app
422 [02:31:37] <agio> do micro USB b to female USB A - have a chip in the cable?
423 [02:31:48] <BCMM> AndyChow888: usb-parport cables are a good one for confusing people. they usually hide all the electronics inside the parport, so they look like they're just a dumb adaptor
424 [02:31:58] <SerajewelKS> agio: not a chip, but they should have a resistor if they are up to spec
425 [02:32:14] <SerajewelKS> cables without the correct resistor are what cause phones / charging bricks to fry
426 [02:32:16] <agio> SerajewelKS: so they are a "dumb" cable?
427 [02:32:20] <SerajewelKS> yes
428 [02:32:24] <BCMM> agio: no. the magic is all done in the phone's usb controller. they're just plain old cables, with a slightly odd choice of connectors
429 [02:32:29] <AndyChow888> Correct, BCMM. And also a reason why a lot of people are frying their phones charging with dumb USB-C cables.
430 [02:32:57] <AndyChow888> USB-C needs a chip, to identify max voltage, wattage.
431 [02:33:20] <BCMM> AndyChow888: "dumb" usb-c cables are out-of-spec by definition, right?
432 [02:33:30] <agio> and you identify if a USB port is A, B or C - by its color?
433 [02:33:36] *** Quits: \dev\cache (~\dev\cach@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
434 [02:33:39] <SerajewelKS> no, by its shape
435 [02:33:45] *** Quits: Jaat`Mers (~JaatMers@replaced-ip ) (Quit: HIT THE ROAD JAAT.)
436 [02:33:47] <AndyChow888> BCMM, yes, most definitely, but a lot come out of China.
437 [02:33:58] <SerajewelKS> you identify different USB-A connectors by color
438 [02:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1365
439 [02:34:12] <agio> SerajewelKS: shape? but don't they all fit into each other?
440 [02:34:21] <SerajewelKS> agio: most certainly not
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443 [02:34:34] <AndyChow888> If you find a USB-C cable for less than $10, it does not have a chip, and will kill your phone.
444 [02:34:43] <BCMM> agio: no. USB A is the ordinary rectangular one, USB B is the big, square one (as seen on the back of printers, mostly)
445 [02:34:48] <SerajewelKS> agio: type A is what you see on most computers. type B has various forms. type B micro is the one on most android phones. type C is what you see on newer phones and newer laptops (the reversible oval).
446 [02:35:18] <BCMM> agio: USB B is somewhat uncommon because most large usb devices don't have detachable cables, and most small usb devices use micro B
447 [02:35:44] <agio> can you get USB "b" in the normal rectangular size?
448 [02:35:51] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
449 [02:35:54] <AndyChow888> On the upside, USB-C can support up to 100W. I haven't used those yet, but I have had 60W over USB-C. Power!
450 [02:36:01] <BCMM> agio: originally, the different connector types sort of enforced that you only plugged hosts in to devices and vice versa
451 [02:36:04] <SerajewelKS> agio: no. type B is by definition not the normal rectangular. that's type A.
452 [02:36:25] <SerajewelKS> agio: the connector type is just its shape and has little to do with what version of the USB spec it supports.
453 [02:37:04] <BCMM> agio: here: this is the original standard usb cable replaced-url
454 [02:37:16] <aloo_shu> agio: my xterm (278?) doesn't have a global -ft parm, it had -fb , -fw etc. instead, for bold, wide and so on. *But*, bingo, it has -fs - font size. Let's try..
455 [02:37:28] <BCMM> agio: that's a USB cable with an A plug and a B plug
456 [02:37:44] <agio> it sounds like the physical shape is how vendors prevent humans mis-matching cables/devices/specs etc
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458 [02:37:58] <SerajewelKS> agio: in theory yes. in practice it does not work out that way.
459 [02:38:18] <BCMM> it was, originally, what stopped people plugging two desktop computers together with a USB cables and watching the sparks
460 [02:38:25] <SerajewelKS> agio: remember that the type (A/B/C) of cable says absolutely nothing about what version of the USB spec the device implements.
461 [02:38:34] <agio> aloo_shu: I think there is also a switch `--font' it might be that
462 [02:38:34] <BCMM> but you can now easily find USB A-A cables, due to people abusing connectors
463 [02:38:44] <SerajewelKS> except that you'll be unlikely to find type C devices that don't support the newer specs
464 [02:38:48] *** Quits: Vooch (~vooch@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
465 [02:39:03] <BCMM> SerajewelKS: you can't have a C connector without supporting USB 3, can you?
466 [02:39:18] <SerajewelKS> agio: but generally, two devices with a mismatching set of supported specs will negotiate the newest spec that both support
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468 [02:39:30] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: right, C is the exception to that, but in general it's a detail you don't have to know
469 [02:39:37] <AndyChow888> SerajewelKS, just look on aliexpress. China is shipping them full-force. So is amazon, due to drop-shippers.
470 [02:40:03] <BCMM> e.g. i've got a USB CD-ROM drive that, for some stupid reason, uses a type-A socket
471 [02:40:05] <AndyChow888> Tons of USB-C cables with no chips at all.
472 [02:40:08] <BCMM> and comes with an A-A cable
473 [02:40:25] <BCMM> this is technically entirely wrong, and it's kind of irresponsible to ship a cable like that
474 [02:40:52] <AndyChow888> No kidding. Doesn't stop the market from shipping cables like that.
475 [02:41:07] * dvs looks for Benjamin
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477 [02:41:41] <AndyChow888> Just search "fried phone USB-C" 6 million google results.
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498 [02:51:11] <aloo_shu> agio yeah, lets see, there was nothing like it when grepping xterm's manpage, and the -fs size param didn't carry over, maybe some other config or bash? overrides it
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501 [02:51:53] <agio> aloo_shu: I've gotten it to work
502 [02:52:29] <agio> aloo_shu: can you try this:
503 [02:52:35] <agio> xterm -fa 'xft:DejaVu Sans Mono:pixelsize=30'
504 [02:53:03] <aloo_shu> ok
505 [02:53:26] <agio> that works for me
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507 [02:55:36] <aloo_shu> \o/
508 [02:55:40] <aloo_shu> bingo
509 [02:55:49] <aloo_shu> you're my hero
510 [02:56:13] <agio> nice
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512 [02:57:31] <aloo_shu> gotta find from where xterm reads its default config, so that I can put it there, but this is 1 step forward
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514 [02:58:09] <agio> xterm reads from ~/.Xdefault or ~/.Xresources
515 [02:58:33] <aloo_shu> still looking for a way that would automatically make all apps take bigger fonts
516 [02:58:49] <aloo_shu> ok
517 [02:59:15] <aloo_shu> probably slightly diferrent syntax, but man shall be my friend
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545 [03:15:35] <aloo_shu> no luck with documentation on Xdefault or Xresources syntax yet, agio
546 [03:16:00] <aloo_shu> not present in my home, neither
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548 [03:16:19] <agio> aloo_shu: you have to make the file
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551 [03:16:45] <aloo_shu> sure, but the syntax?
552 [03:18:04] <agio> aloo_shu: just a sec
553 [03:19:17] <aloo_shu> the only template I have, is /etc/X11/Xresources/x11-common, and that's rather not self-explanatory (although looking powerful)
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558 [03:21:35] <aloo_shu> nothing in /usr/share/X11, neither, this is a small install in a 1GB fs
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560 [03:23:59] <aloo_shu> got to praise meefik.ru, though, who wrote linux deploy, an app cum scripts that automatises a good bit of installing & setting up debian, and preparing the chroot env later
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565 [03:25:31] <agio> aloo_shu: looks like `man Xsession.options'
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567 [03:25:47] <aloo_shu> it *could* all be done step by step from a term, but that app is gold
568 [03:25:50] <aloo_shu> thx
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572 [03:27:18] <agio> otherwise try wiki.archlinux.org Xdefaults or Xresources
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579 [03:29:54] <aloo_shu> rather the latter, agio
580 [03:30:39] <aloo_shu> Xsession, Xsession.option do not shine much light on but a dozen of flags
581 [03:30:52] <agio> yeah sorry, I know
582 [03:31:28] <aloo_shu> blame the X consrtium :)
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584 [03:32:00] <agio> aloo_shu: youll be wanting something like:
585 [03:32:16] <agio> Xterm.fa: xft:DejaVu Sans Mono:pixelsize=30
586 [03:32:26] <agio> in a ~/.Xdefaults file
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588 [03:32:36] <agio> but its a complicated setup
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591 [03:32:49] <aloo_shu> any mandatory header?
592 [03:32:53] <agio> no
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594 [03:33:11] <aloo_shu> worth a shot
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597 [03:33:15] <agio> but ~/.Xdefaults stores configs for many X applications
598 [03:33:26] <aloo_shu> all the better
599 [03:33:35] <agio> iits not what you think
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601 [03:33:51] <aloo_shu> ah, as per app
602 [03:33:55] <agio> only about 3 X applications really respect ~/.Xdefaults
603 [03:34:00] <aloo_shu> :(
604 [03:34:13] <agio> only terminal emulators xterm, urxvt etc
605 [03:34:28] <agio> so you need to load that with the command
606 [03:34:36] <agio> xrdb ~/.Xdefaults
607 [03:34:49] <agio> that loads the configs into Xserver
608 [03:34:55] <aloo_shu> 1 time
609 [03:35:11] <agio> and then xterm, urxvt will read the setting from Xserver
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655 [04:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1359
656 [04:04:34] <awal1> I asked 'youtube-dl' to get download the video as as .opus and all fine but two of them got a different extension format: 1 .ogg and the other .m4a. Why?
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659 [04:05:36] <awal1> "youtube-dl -o my-youtube-video.opus -x the-youtube-video-to-download"
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661 [04:06:10] <awal1> it doesn't bother me if opus, ogg or m4a; just wanted to understand why
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667 [04:11:00] <awal1> .opus are even corrupt :(
668 [04:11:09] <awal1> corrupted ^
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670 [04:11:30] <awal1> so looks like youtub-dl -o .opuis doesn't work
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680 [04:18:47] <awal1> not sure how to combine option -o with --audio-format
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682 [04:19:31] <awal1> ok, maybe --audio-format opus -o foo will just work
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729 [05:10:00] <piercedwater> hello
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760 [05:43:34] <piercedwater> favorite music player?
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762 [05:44:32] <maxrazer> What way do you use to play video without tearing with a light desktop and no proprietary nvidia driver installed?
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764 [05:45:57] <maxrazer> I'm reading that v-sync doesn't work very well with compton. And not sure the best way to quickly turn on/off that.
765 [05:46:12] <maxrazer> With nvidia proprietary you just enable pipeline compositing with the driver.
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791 [06:03:41] <xxxpicxxx_> i know that wifi save logs like mac and hostname but i like to know what more is a router logging?
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915 [07:26:50] <jelly-home> piercedwater: clementine
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919 [07:27:48] <awal1> piercedwater: cmus/moc/mpv :P
920 [07:27:59] <awal1> !editor war
921 [07:27:59] <dpkg> somebody said editor war was when people start talking all sorts of emotional bullshit while trying to prove superiority of the editor of their choice
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924 [07:28:13] <awal1> :D
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943 [07:32:54] <piercedwater> awal1, no, no war! :D
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948 [07:34:36] <awal1> piercedwater: peace! :P
949 [07:35:10] <piercedwater> hehe yeah
950 [07:35:30] <piercedwater> my favorite times on irc have been when aspiring developers talk about their projects
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952 [07:35:48] <piercedwater> i was hoping to catch someone making a media player or something. i dunno
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1002 [08:14:43] <Wizard> Hi
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1136 [09:38:18] <edmont> hi
1137 [09:38:28] <edmont> what can be the cause for a Debian host not to start the Neighbor Discovery process for an unknown destination belonging to an existing IPv6 route?
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1139 [09:39:12] <andre144k> hello all... i have follow PS1-variable: PS1='\[\033[02;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]> ' - it shows me complete directy - eg "andre@hostname:/home/andre/foobar>" - how can i change so i see only last directory-part like that? "andre@hostname:foobar>
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1142 [09:40:01] <andre144k> ah i founded
1143 [09:40:17] <andre144k> sry for question... \W instead of \w shld work :)
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1161 [09:52:50] <edmont> ok, I found the problem, ip6tables 1.8.1 is not recognizing the --icmpv6-type option, why have they removed it?
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1171 [10:01:28] <Fox> edmont: stretch provides 1.6.0+snapshot20161117-6, where did you get 1.8.1 ?
1172 [10:03:17] <Fox> edmont: if you're on buster you should ask on #debian-next@oftc
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1175 [10:03:28] <edmont> Fox: ok
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1181 [10:07:03] <edmont> Fox: but I need invitation
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1184 [10:07:37] <Fox> edmont: you're on the wrong network
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1186 [10:07:40] <Fox> !debian-next
1187 [10:07:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1190 [10:08:04] <edmont> Fox: thanks
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1266 [10:56:06] <ws2k3> so im having a strange issue with debian. replaced-url
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1321 [11:24:26] <srged> I have installed Unattended Upgrades , however I discovered unupdated apps , so it doesn't work well . any ideas?
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1323 [11:25:14] <SpeedyG> its all about configuration, by default ua only installs security updates
1324 [11:25:46] <srged> SpeedyG: I'd also like it to update all the apps
1325 [11:25:48] <SpeedyG> have to uncomment some of the other lines just above the security uodates if yoy want full updates enabled
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1328 [11:27:24] <ws2k3> so im having a strange issue with debian. replaced-url
1329 [11:27:30] <srged> SpeedyG: here is how mine is configurated, replaced-url
1330 [11:28:01] <SpeedyG> srged: am on a phone right now, ca t easily open links frpm irc :(
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1332 [11:29:01] <srged> SpeedyG: :/
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1338 [11:30:01] <SpeedyG> by default, one line is uncommented.. the two or three just above that is what you need for full updates. try to google those a bit (the line aaying security updates in the first section)
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1341 [11:31:59] <srged> sice i run debian9, which one would be better for me, a Chromecast or an Android TV box?
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1355 [11:39:54] <tarzeau> srged: often a smart tv has that what chromecast/apple tv can do already built-in. i went with apple tv
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1370 [11:44:46] <srged> tarzeau: well,I have a non smart tv and considering turning it smart, just unsure which way to go, chromecast or android tv box
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1384 [11:52:44] <kiilo> hi, i joined a debian 9 system to AD (univention samba4 DC) to use it as an SFTP server head, im using internal-ftp but UID and GID is mapped to nobody??
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1388 [11:53:23] <kiilo> does other SFTP setups resolve UID in a chrooted enviroment=
1389 [11:53:29] <kiilo> ?
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1428 [12:19:48] <srged> ;
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1451 [12:34:56] <ewi> Hello, any openssl experts here?
1452 [12:35:26] <nkuttler> !ask
1453 [12:35:26] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1454 [12:35:27] <rant> lemme check the census data.. do you have a warrant?
1455 [12:35:36] <shtrb> Any daemon suggestion that would select and update routes per host when I have multiple interfaces ? I'm fed up with a script that adds routes only if a specific network interface is up (3G) and updating the ips each time.
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1457 [12:36:31] <shtrb> *wihtout having a daemon running on the destination hosts
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1459 [12:38:54] <ewi> Weird problem with creating certs with ca. key and csr creation goes well, but I can't create new certificates anymore. Tried to strace the process, no help there. Checked the index.txt no same name certs there.
1460 [12:39:39] <shtrb> g your specific error
1461 [12:40:16] <petn-randall> ewi: Can you share actual commands + output showing your problem?
1462 [12:40:25] <shtrb> the CA is local (undeer your control) or someone's CA ?
1463 [12:40:34] <petn-randall> ewi: Also, which OS version, and which openssl version are you running?
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1470 [12:41:50] <ewi> no error, CA is local.
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1473 [12:42:19] <shtrb> easyrsa or manual ?
1474 [12:42:36] <shtrb> better, do as petn-randall said
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1477 [12:42:54] <shtrb> ewi, paste.debian.net
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1483 [12:44:07] <ewi> shtrb, a minute...
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1496 [12:55:16] <ewi> replaced-url
1497 [12:55:51] <ewi> openssl version 1.1.0f
1498 [12:56:00] <ewi> Debian jessie
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1500 [12:56:10] <petn-randall> ,v openssl
1501 [12:56:11] <judd> Package: openssl on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.1e-2+deb7u20; wheezy-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb7u4; jessie: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-backports: 1.0.2l-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; buster: 1.1.1-2; sid: 1.1.1-2
1502 [12:56:30] <petn-randall> ewi: jessie doesn't come with that version.
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1505 [12:57:04] <ewi> Sorry stretch
1506 [12:57:17] <ewi> 1.1.0f-3
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1510 [12:58:26] <ewi> Problem is on line 44. openssl seems to be creating the cert, but does not succeed and thus all next commands fail.
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1514 [12:59:33] <ewi> the script has been used succesfully earlier. Also if I change the subject outcome is same.
1515 [13:00:11] <petn-randall> ewi: I think the problem is that you're using a mix of relative and absolute paths. You will only get a cert in /home/cert/ca/certs/sp2.cert.pem if you run the command in /home/cert/ca/.
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1517 [13:00:24] <ewi> openssl.cnf is copied from the default. Only changed lines is dir and some default values.
1518 [13:00:35] <petn-randall> ewi: Most likely openssl is writing the files to a directory you don't expect, as it's not throwing an error.
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1520 [13:00:54] <ewi> It was earlier all relative paths
1521 [13:01:03] <ewi> didn't work
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1531 [13:03:56] <ewi> openssl .... -out cert1.pem
1532 [13:04:05] <ewi> still doesn't work.
1533 [13:04:10] <shtrb> fullpath
1534 [13:04:35] <ewi> Yes, it is in the script.
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1536 [13:04:51] <ewi> l 24
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1542 [13:06:04] <petn-randall> ewi: Well, line 49 says you're running from ~/testca. So pretty much what I said before.
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1549 [13:09:04] <ewi> testca is copied and sedded test-directory, script is sedded with s/ca/testca/
1550 [13:09:27] <ewi> is there option in openssl for deeper debugging?
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1570 [13:18:36] <petn-randall> ewi: I'm guessing a s/ca/testca/ would break a lot more things.
1571 [13:18:50] <petn-randall> ewi: So show us the actual things you're debugging, you seem to be mixing up the two.
1572 [13:19:11] <ewi> Found the error
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1574 [13:19:49] <ewi> I had edited index.txt manually and removed offending keys and accidentally left an empty line
1575 [13:20:00] <ewi> removed the empty line and now it works.
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1578 [13:21:20] <ewi> Couple of days hunting empty line :)
1579 [13:21:49] <ewi> Thanks for help and suggestions.
1580 [13:21:50] <shtrb> why do you delete a line instead of a revoke ?
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1582 [13:22:52] <ewi> Testing purposes and still kind of learning to be ca. Luckily this is a closed environment.
1583 [13:23:15] <petn-randall> ewi: I can recommend the easyrsa scripts, they save a lot of hassle with the detials.
1584 [13:23:20] <petn-randall> details even.
1585 [13:23:35] <ewi> I'm making a transition o XCA
1586 [13:23:37] <shtrb> petn-randall, that was my first question if it's easyrsa or manual
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1592 [13:27:06] <ewi> petn-randal, would you suggest easyrsa over XCA?
1593 [13:28:01] <petn-randall> ewi: Never heard of XCA.
1594 [13:28:07] <shtrb> a UI
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1623 [13:41:15] <murii> hello
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1625 [13:41:29] <murii> in order to setup a mail server do Ineed to have a domain?
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1629 [13:42:14] <murii> can't I just map the IP to my mail name? (sounds dumb now that I'm writing it down)
1630 [13:43:04] <petn-randall> murii: Sure, but then everyone would have to memorize your IP address to send you mail. And I can imagine that many spamfilters will find that suspicous.
1631 [13:43:16] <shtrb> murii, you can but it will not work over the internet
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1633 [13:43:31] <murii> petn-randall: that's what Ithought too
1634 [13:43:33] <shtrb> murii, no sane mail server would accept traffic from you (or send too )
1635 [13:43:42] <petn-randall> That, too ^^^
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1637 [13:43:53] <murii> shtrb - why?
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1641 [13:44:57] <shtrb> murii, by default you check if you have rdns, spf and sometimes dkim. for you to have an spf you should register a domain (AFAIK)
1642 [13:45:18] <shtrb> And that is even before making sure you are not in a blocked zone
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1644 [13:45:46] <murii> alright
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1650 [13:48:30] <murii> Do you guys think a RPI 3 B+ is enough for hosting: ~10 clients connected to machine via ssh + a service of hosting text/images pasting + irc channel?
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1652 [13:49:07] <murii> People back in the day used low powered machines for things like these :)
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1654 [13:49:30] <fireba11> murii: sure. our company firewall runs on atom :-D
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1656 [13:49:41] <murii> glad to hear that!
1657 [13:49:46] <petn-randall> murii: Depends on what you mean with "a service of hosting text/images pasting"
1658 [13:49:54] <murii> petn-randall: something like pasteall
1659 [13:50:04] <kiilo> Hi i mount nfs4 with sec=krb5p from a freenas sserver to debian client - UID mapping works but permssions are denied, mkdir "test" in the mount - but user should have write permission ... on the client:
1660 [13:50:04] <kiilo> drwxrwxr-x 3 administrator@example.com domain users@example.com 5 Nov 14 11:12 scratch
1661 [13:50:04] <kiilo> user crashtest@example.com which is in domain users@example.com cannot write
1662 [13:50:04] <kiilo> crashtest@example.com@sftp01:/$ mkdir test
1663 [13:50:04] <kiilo> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘test’: Permission denied
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1667 [13:50:14] <murii> a place where I can put cod snippets or PNGs
1668 [13:50:39] <murii> Oh, and also a GIT page
1669 [13:50:42] <shtrb> murii, yes, what about the power for the storage ?
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1671 [13:50:58] <fireba11> murii: for nextcloud you want at least a 2ng gen pi for the gui to be reasonable responsive, but for some trivial web delivery a pi should be plenty
1672 [13:51:02] <murii> shtrb: what do you mean?
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1676 [13:51:29] <murii> fireba11: no GUI happens in what I describe here, everything is through SSH
1677 [13:51:39] <shtrb> murii, if you set up usb DOKs or SSDs you need to power them
1678 [13:51:45] <shtrb> the pi has a limit what it can power
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1680 [13:52:11] <murii> I think 32GB is enough for what I'm planning
1681 [13:52:31] <murii> but Iget what you mean
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1714 [14:07:16] <hanshenrik> filezilla is both a ftp server and client, the debian package called `filezilla` only installs the client. either the package should be renamed `filezilla-client`, or the ftp server should also be bundled with the package
1715 [14:08:03] <hanshenrik> (and for the record, as far as i can see, the filezilla server isn't bundled with any debian package)
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1766 [14:22:41] <fireba11> hanshenrik: not wrong but that seems to be their manimg scheme, it's the same for the windows versions
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1775 [14:25:17] <hanshenrik> fireba11, well, it's inconsistent & annoying me. there is a mariadb-client package, and a mariadb-server package, but there is no `mariadb` package
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1778 [14:26:50] <fireba11> hanshenrik: as far as i can tell basically noone uses the filezilla server ;-) we don't even have any ftp servers running any more :-P
1779 [14:28:14] <hanshenrik> few are actually using ftp servers these days, but there's plenty of sftp servers around, and nearly every major linux distro (debian included) ships one by default~
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1784 [14:28:50] <hanshenrik> ugh.. online.net is still using ftp servers for stuff
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1789 [14:31:19] <jelly> ibm has anonymous ftp servers with TLS
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1803 [14:38:10] <InvisibleRasta> hello guys i am following this guide replaced-url
1804 [14:38:22] <InvisibleRasta> debootstrap stable /stable-chroot replaced-url
1805 [14:38:25] <InvisibleRasta> this command ^
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1807 [14:38:50] <inch> No, debootstrap installs only a minimal system.
1808 [14:39:02] <InvisibleRasta> is there another guide to follow after debootstrap
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1814 [14:41:52] <inch> edit /stable-chroot/etc/debian_chroot and write some name there to avoid mistakes
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1817 [14:42:07] <inch> Then chroot /stable-chroot and install what you need with apt
1818 [14:42:56] <InvisibleRasta> inch, i am new to debian and im not enirely sure how to isntall what i need to get X running. id like to have sddm with kde
1819 [14:43:19] <piercedwater> apt get install xorg
1820 [14:43:24] <piercedwater> apt-get, sorry
1821 [14:43:27] <piercedwater> or just apt
1822 [14:43:37] <piercedwater> apt install kde
1823 [14:43:39] <piercedwater> etc etc
1824 [14:43:47] <InvisibleRasta> what are the etc's?
1825 [14:43:51] <jelly> piercedwater: there's no package named "kde"
1826 [14:43:55] <jelly> ,v kde
1827 [14:43:56] <judd> No package named 'kde' was found in amd64.
1828 [14:44:08] <piercedwater> apt search kde then installing which one you want
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1830 [14:44:17] <inch> InvisibleRasta: You can do apt install tasksel in the chroot and then run tasksel
1831 [14:44:17] <jelly> piercedwater: if you don't know actual answers, you don't have to answer things
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1836 [14:44:58] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: if you pick the kde desktop environment during task selection in the installer you're going to get a pretty complete set of packages.
1837 [14:45:05] <inch> And then apt-get dselect-upgrade to install the tasksel-selected tasks.
1838 [14:45:19] <InvisibleRasta> will that install sddm and xorg?
1839 [14:45:23] <jelly> yes
1840 [14:45:44] <jelly> wait, I'm not sure if kde task picks lightdm or sddm
1841 [14:45:58] <jelly> ,depends task-kde-desktop
1842 [14:45:59] <judd> Package task-kde-desktop in stretch/amd64 -- depends: tasksel (= 3.39), task-desktop, kde-standard, sddm.
1843 [14:46:07] <jelly> sddm it is!
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1845 [14:46:26] <InvisibleRasta> I: Base system installed successfully.
1846 [14:46:31] <InvisibleRasta> so now i chroot
1847 [14:46:36] <guerby> ,kernel
1848 [14:46:37] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc7-686-pae (4.19~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); buster: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1);
1849 [14:46:38] <judd> wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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1851 [14:47:20] <guerby> ,kernel-amd64
1852 [14:47:50] <joepublic> 32-bit 4.19 with pae? someone's being adventurous
1853 [14:47:56] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: oh, if you've already installed something smaller, then I guess you'd just install task-kde-desktop.
1854 [14:48:01] <guerby> hmmm apt-cache policy on stretch-backports says 4.18+98~bpo9+1
1855 [14:48:12] <guerby> ,linux-image-amd64
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1858 [14:49:32] <jelly> guerby: judd defaults to i386 architecture for some stuff, including the list of kernel build across debian branches. Typically you have the very same versions with -amd64 ABI instead of -686-pae, for 64bi installations
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1861 [14:51:57] <tsglove2> I got myself into a pickle. Machine: Debian9, with Xfce. Yesterday, I was playing with Selenium (it opens up Firefox, and "does things"). Apparently, I didn't quit each Firefox session properly. Today, I restart the machine, and firefox opens two dozen instances.
1862 [14:52:09] <tsglove2> How can I find out what/how is Firefox starting?
1863 [14:52:19] <tsglove2> If i run pkill firefox all the instances are closed.
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1865 [14:52:24] <tsglove2> Yet... how/why?
1866 [14:52:45] <InvisibleRasta> tasksel is giving me errors jelly replaced-url
1867 [14:53:02] *** Joins: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip )
1868 [14:53:26] <LtL> tsglove2: you might look in ~/.config/autostart
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1870 [14:54:15] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: those perl and locale issues are a consequence of chroot and not having some locales enabled. Nothing useful about why tasksel actually failed apart from the last line
1871 [14:54:34] <tsglove2> LtL, thank you. On my way!
1872 [14:54:42] <InvisibleRasta> so what is wrong with tasksel jelly ?
1873 [14:54:52] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: see if "apt-get update" works on its own
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1876 [14:55:12] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, yes it updated
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1879 [14:56:20] <stevenm> hey I still find myself using 'apt-get' rather than 'apt' - mostly because in a terminal I can scroll up whilst 'apt-get' is running without it jerking back down to the bottom again
1880 [14:56:34] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, seems like after running that taskel works
1881 [14:56:37] <stevenm> i think it's because 'apt' does that silly progress bar animation thingy - anyway to turn that off?
1882 [14:56:56] <greycat> I use apt-get too. The "user friendly" features of apt are not so friendly to me.
1883 [14:57:16] <LtL> stevenm: yeah, you could use apt-get instead.
1884 [14:57:38] <jelly> PROGRESS BAR
1885 [14:57:46] <greycat> YELLOW ON WHITE
1886 [14:58:03] <jelly> ah, the bright background heathen
1887 [14:58:03] <stevenm> well i don't mind using apt - except for that one little annoyance
1888 [14:58:15] <InvisibleRasta> jelly what is debian desktop enviroment in taskel?
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1890 [14:58:24] <greycat> I also don't like the fact that it auto-deletes the .deb files.
1891 [14:58:28] <InvisibleRasta> is it xorg? i need to select it or shall i jsut select kde?
1892 [14:58:37] <greycat> InvisibleRasta: it will choose one for you, probably GNOME.
1893 [14:58:39] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: there are options inside that, the default gets you Gnome installed
1894 [14:58:42] <stevenm> greycat, apt can do what dpkg -i can do?
1895 [14:58:58] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: if you want kde just pick kde
1896 [14:58:58] <greycat> !apt install
1897 [14:58:59] <dpkg> You can specify a pathname to a manually downloaded .deb file in apt install, but it must begin with / or ./ or ../ or else apt thinks it's a package name. E.g. "apt install ./foo-1.2.deb". This supersedes <gdebi>.
1898 [14:59:02] <joepublic> apt-cache search is greppable, whereas trying to use apt search with grep gets you a scolding plus doesn't produce useful output
1899 [14:59:11] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, how do i stop tasksel
1900 [14:59:14] <InvisibleRasta> ctrl c dont work
1901 [14:59:21] <stevenm> ooh gdebi was about to be my next question :)
1902 [14:59:32] <stevenm> don't suppose apt install can have a http/https url to a deb? :D
1903 [14:59:36] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: Esc, wait a second
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1905 [14:59:40] <stevenm> i used to do that trick with gdebi
1906 [14:59:57] <greycat> I've never tried.
1907 [15:00:04] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, nothign happens it keeps downloadig
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1909 [15:00:20] <stevenm> e.g.
1910 [15:00:27] <stevenm> sudo gdebi -n $(curl -#Lw%{filename_effective} -o$(mktemp) media.codeweavers.com/pub/crossover/cxlinux/demo/crossover_15.1.0-1.deb)
1911 [15:00:35] <stevenm> hacky but it works :)
1912 [15:00:52] <nidhoegger> I have a little problem: I am using the latest Debian 9.6 (that is not the problem though). I have an USB 2 Hub that I connect to an USB 3.0 port which has 4 USB Soundcards plugged into it... The first two sound devices get recocknized, the other two fail with "Not enough bandwidth for new device state.".
1913 [15:00:52] <greycat> well yes, downloading first and then apt installing the downloaded file will work...
1914 [15:00:56] <nidhoegger> Is there any workaround?
1915 [15:01:02] <nidhoegger> The funny thing is that it works on my Raspberry Pi
1916 [15:01:11] <stevenm> greycat, yeah i more meant without needing curl :)
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1918 [15:01:36] <stevenm> seems not
1919 [15:01:48] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: Do they all four work, or do they only get recognized?
1920 [15:01:54] <petn-randall> on the RPi, that is.
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1925 [15:02:32] <nidhoegger> petn-randall: on the pi all 4 work, on debian pulseaudio shows only 2 devices and the other two will spam dmesg with the said message
1926 [15:02:50] <nidhoegger> with "on debian" I mean my desktop PC
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1928 [15:03:26] <shtrb> nidhoegger, try a different port
1929 [15:03:32] <nidhoegger> shtrb, did that already
1930 [15:03:44] <nidhoegger> same result
1931 [15:03:47] <shtrb> can you try a powered hub ?
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1935 [15:05:06] <nidhoegger> shtrb, also tried that :/
1936 [15:05:16] <nidhoegger> tried it on a powered USB3 hub and a powered USB2 hub
1937 [15:05:42] <shtrb> Can you check if that's not the hub limit ? check if you errors about the HUB
1938 [15:05:54] <shtrb> (maximum devices is 8 vs 15)
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1940 [15:06:34] <shtrb> if you select only the two non recognised are they recognised ?
1941 [15:07:15] <nidhoegger> shtrb, replaced-url
1942 [15:07:30] <nidhoegger> yes, if only two are plugged in all works
1943 [15:08:08] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: Do the devices speak USB3?
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1945 [15:08:13] <nidhoegger> no
1946 [15:08:18] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, will fstab be generated automatically?
1947 [15:08:24] <nidhoegger> they are USB 2.0 soundcards
1948 [15:08:41] <shtrb> have you tried replaced-url
1949 [15:08:51] <shtrb> nidhoegger, you can also use usb over ip
1950 [15:09:12] <nidhoegger> ill try, one sec pls
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1952 [15:09:24] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: Might be a bug in the USB3 controller, or the drivers then.
1953 [15:10:11] <nidhoegger> pausing the sound does not work shtrb
1954 [15:10:26] <shtrb> time to contact greg and linux-usb
1955 [15:10:30] <nidhoegger> petn-randall, might me :/ just hoped for a workaround
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1958 [15:12:38] <nidhoegger> tried everything now I could think off :/
1959 [15:12:47] <nidhoegger> is there anywhere I can turn to?
1960 [15:12:47] <shtrb> nidhoegger, replaced-url
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1964 [15:14:25] <nidhoegger> hmmm, on another computer (where I have USB 2 and 3 ports) it does not work on the USB3 ports but on the USB2 ports it does
1965 [15:14:33] <nidhoegger> so there seems something off in the XHCI driver mayb
1966 [15:14:36] <nidhoegger> *maybe
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1968 [15:15:09] <shtrb> nidhoegger, #kernel or #kernelnewbies
1969 [15:15:14] <nidhoegger> thank
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1971 [15:15:15] <nidhoegger> *thanks
1972 [15:15:16] <shtrb> they might have an idea
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1984 [15:19:23] <nidhoegger> shtrb, is there a way to upgrade to an experimental kernel?
1985 [15:19:31] <nidhoegger> without upgrading the whole system to buster of course
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1987 [15:19:40] <greycat> !experimental
1988 [15:19:41] <dpkg> experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section 4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference. replaced-url
1989 [15:19:43] <shtrb> not the experimental , download and uild local
1990 [15:19:58] <nidhoegger> okay
1991 [15:20:03] <shtrb> nidhoegger, but before that ask at #kernel and #kernelnewbiews or even better at linux-usb
1992 [15:20:13] <nidhoegger> its years since I baked my own kernel :P
1993 [15:20:16] <greycat> Are the stretch-backports kernels not bloody enough for your needs?
1994 [15:20:21] <greycat> ,kernels
1995 [15:20:22] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc7-686-pae (4.19~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); buster: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1);
1996 [15:20:23] <judd> wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
1997 [15:20:40] <nidhoegger> i asked and wait for an anwer, I just like to know about my possibilities, and maybe the problem is fixed there. so I would install it on my testmachine just to see what happens
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1999 [15:20:45] <shtrb> nidhoegger, check with the ML , a kernel is three commands far
2000 [15:20:55] <nidhoegger> ML?
2001 [15:21:01] <shtrb> I didn't see an email linux-usb ..
2002 [15:21:05] <shtrb> Mailing List
2003 [15:21:11] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: It's fairly straight-forward: Download and unpack the sources from kernel.org; make oldconfig; Update any changes to the kernel config with `make menuconfig`; make deb-dpkg; install the package coming out at the end.
2004 [15:21:11] <nidhoegger> yes, that has a reason
2005 [15:21:17] <nidhoegger> I am currently reading how to use a mailing list :P
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2007 [15:21:40] <nidhoegger> so far I lived my life without using one
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2009 [15:21:49] <shtrb> petn no make-kpkg ?
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2011 [15:22:31] <petn-randall> make deb-pkg, sorry
2012 [15:22:42] <Iridos> ,v rednotebook
2013 [15:22:43] <judd> Package: rednotebook on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.4.0-1; jessie: 1.8.1-1
2014 [15:22:47] <petn-randall> shtrb: That's been deprecated, it's recommended to use the upstream Makefile.
2015 [15:22:52] <Iridos> dpkg, why is rednotebook not in testing
2016 [15:22:52] <dpkg> rednotebook is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
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2018 [15:23:36] <Iridos> there's not even an excuse!
2019 [15:24:17] <shtrb> Iridos, red represent fire and anger
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2021 [15:24:42] <Iridos> notebook represent something I used for writing stuff down and now it's gorn
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2024 [15:25:22] <InvisibleRasta> hello guys i used bootstrap to install debian and installed kde with tasksel.. it looks tho that the /boot directory is empty...no kernel
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2026 [15:25:30] <shtrb> Take an axe and go the local forest
2027 [15:25:39] <shtrb> the device, not the spray
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2031 [15:26:21] <InvisibleRasta> do i need to install it manually?
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2046 [15:35:43] <nidhoegger> okay, it seems that it depends on how quick you plug everything in
2047 [15:36:06] <nidhoegger> the sound devices blink for about 2 seconds after plugin, if I wait until the blinking stops and then plug in the next one, everything works
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2051 [15:40:22] <petn-randall> How weird. I wonder if it's a fault in the sound cards, the hub, the USB controller, or the drivers.
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2055 [15:42:01] <InvisibleRasta> what is the package that provides intel-ucode
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2058 [15:42:26] <shtrb> It could be an auth of some kind (they xhci and the card transfer cat pics for a while and then they decide they can work togher)
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2061 [15:43:51] <nidhoegger> lol
2062 [15:43:52] *** Joins: avu (~jan@replaced-ip )
2063 [15:44:07] <nidhoegger> is there a way to slow down the device handshake?
2064 [15:44:15] <nidhoegger> like to tell the kernel to only do 1 device at a time
2065 [15:44:31] <petn-randall> InvisibleRasta: `apt-file search intel-ucode` will tell you.
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2072 [15:49:42] <ychaouche> Hey #debian
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2076 [15:50:28] <ychaouche> I would like to install the openfire server (XMPP), the install page says I need JRE 1.7.0 at least, I don't know how to figure out which package I should install to meet this requirement ? is openjdk-8-jre-headless good ?
2077 [15:50:48] <ychaouche> I can't see any JRE version in the output of apt-cache show openjdk-8-jre-headless
2078 [15:51:53] <petn-randall> ychaouche: `java -version` will tell you.
2079 [15:52:13] <shtrb> ,v openfire
2080 [15:52:14] <judd> No package named 'openfire' was found in amd64.
2081 [15:52:20] <ychaouche> petn-randall, I have no java command on that particular server
2082 [15:52:24] <ychaouche> it seems it's not installed
2083 [15:52:26] <shtrb> dpkg, why openfire not in debian
2084 [15:52:26] <dpkg> shtrb: I give up, what is it?
2085 [15:52:35] *** Quits: aielima (~aielima@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2086 [15:52:40] <petn-randall> ychaouche: You have if you install openjdk-8-jre-headless.
2087 [15:52:55] *** Joins: aielima (~aielima@replaced-ip )
2088 [15:53:04] <ychaouche> ok I thought I could know in advance
2089 [15:53:20] <shtrb> why is openfire not in stable
2090 [15:53:46] *** Joins: conta1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2091 [15:53:53] *** Joins: queip (~queip@replaced-ip )
2092 [15:54:02] <petn-randall> shtrb: I guess because no one packaged it? That command is only useful to find out if a package is in sid, but not in testing.
2093 [15:54:12] <greycat> !Openfire
2094 [15:54:12] <dpkg> Openfire (previously Wildfire, Jive Messenger) is an <XMPP> server written in Java, not packaged for Debian (<RFP> in #689589). replaced-url
2095 [15:54:50] <petn-randall> ychaouche: I _think_ JRE 1.7.0 is openjdk-7, and 1.8.0 is openjdk-8, but it's more reliable to install the package and check yourself.
2096 [15:55:11] <ychaouche> thank you petn-randall
2097 [15:55:48] <shtrb> petn-randall, thanks
2098 [15:56:01] <petn-randall> You're welcome! :)
2099 [15:56:17] <ychaouche> is XMPP still populare in entreprise setting ?
2100 [15:56:36] <ychaouche> to chat w/ colleagues in the same LAN
2101 [15:56:46] <ychaouche> or I should say the entreprise network
2102 [15:56:52] <petn-randall> ychaouche: personally I've only use it in private, but except for people where I created an account for them, nobody uses it.
2103 [15:57:09] <petn-randall> ychaouche: Most people use IRC or Slack at work, I guess.
2104 [15:57:23] <nidhoegger> if you want a self hosted solution have a look at mattermost
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2106 [15:57:27] <nidhoegger> we switched from XMPP to that
2107 [15:57:29] <ychaouche> public or private servers ?
2108 [15:57:38] <tarzeau> nidhoegger: one can also self host an irc server
2109 [15:57:39] <shtrb> ychaouche, depend on the server ...
2110 [15:57:47] <nidhoegger> tarzeau, that is true
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2113 [15:57:58] <nidhoegger> but in an enterprise setting I think IRC is the wrong solution
2114 [15:58:11] <tarzeau> i think it's just right
2115 [15:58:17] <ychaouche> selfhosted is the keyword I was missing
2116 [15:58:23] <nidhoegger> I think that, too, but many others dont
2117 [15:58:23] <ychaouche> this is what I need.
2118 [15:58:24] <shtrb> ychaouche, XMPP is a good server solution whey you give nice UI for the users
2119 [15:58:28] <nidhoegger> and its not only what one person thinks
2120 [15:58:36] <nidhoegger> IRC has disadvantages
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2123 [15:58:50] <greycat> I don't know what you guys think an "enterprise setting" is, but trust me, if you want to talk to someone else in your enterprise setting, you use this thing called a "telephone".
2124 [15:58:52] <shtrb> the best option is the one that make your CEO happy with that
2125 [15:59:06] <nidhoegger> greycat, but then I would have social contact... ehw
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2127 [15:59:15] *** Joins: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip )
2128 [15:59:22] <greycat> (Unless they're close enough that you just walk over and talk in person.)
2129 [15:59:27] <shtrb> and with XMPP you will net
2130 [15:59:28] <nidhoegger> even worse
2131 [15:59:35] <tarzeau> greycat: they wanted to take ours away and give an usb microphone/speaker thing, last spring... it's been postponed (unknown date), for about 10k people
2132 [15:59:45] *** Joins: HoSy (~HS_@replaced-ip )
2133 [16:00:05] <tarzeau> the telephone can't copy paste, or be used easily on more people than 1:1
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2135 [16:00:10] <greycat> Sounds like someone thinks they can save a few euros by doing that. I predict bad outcomes.
2136 [16:00:43] <shtrb> yes , usb mic and headset what could be possible go wrong :D
2137 [16:00:45] <tarzeau> greycat: they sold it with: soft phone, you can install it on your private cell phone, and also have video chat, messaging etc...
2138 [16:01:03] <tarzeau> shtrb: the software (webrtc) sucks!
2139 [16:01:29] <shtrb> webrtc for XMPP ?
2140 [16:01:33] <shtrb> that a first
2141 [16:01:35] *** Quits: miklcct (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2142 [16:01:56] <tarzeau> shtrb: esp. if you ONLY have the webbrowser software (that needs be running all the time), and oh wait, a computer can have NO SOUNDCARD, or multiple, and no speakers, or speakrs without power, or speakers disconnected, or volume all on 0, or headphone speakers that nobody hears...
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2144 [16:02:05] <shtrb> The best solution I have found usefull ,was to try to sell the solution to the Big mangment deprtmant
2145 [16:02:12] <tarzeau> shtrb: no that was not related with xmpp
2146 [16:02:18] <ychaouche> nidhoegger, fat desktop client ?
2147 [16:02:21] <shtrb> if you can do that in an elvator, and make it work then consider installing it
2148 [16:02:23] <tarzeau> i'm using my personal cell phone. or irc.
2149 [16:02:47] <tarzeau> shtrb: you don't have standard telephones in elevators either
2150 [16:03:00] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2151 [16:03:01] <shtrb> to sell it in person.
2152 [16:03:08] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, a bit context would be nice
2153 [16:03:09] <shtrb> you have two three minutes with the CEO
2154 [16:03:18] <ychaouche> nidhoegger, I feel like a dedicated software is more engaging than keeping a browser tab open
2155 [16:03:21] <shtrb> or any other mgmt person
2156 [16:03:28] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, then install the client
2157 [16:03:28] <ychaouche> nidhoegger, most of my users would prefer that
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2159 [16:03:46] <ychaouche> nidhoegger, yes, I was asking if mattermost had one ?
2160 [16:03:55] *** Joins: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip )
2161 [16:03:58] <shtrb> Do you think user will care if it's XMPP or SIP for exmaple if all they have is a nice app ?
2162 [16:04:02] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, no, you said "fat desktop client?".
2163 [16:04:02] <ychaouche> because on the website they put (chrome, firefox, IE)
2164 [16:04:21] <shtrb> ychaouche, you can always use electron
2165 [16:04:29] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, mattermost has a desktop client. For mac, linux, windows, even for android and iOS
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2167 [16:04:43] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, its not my favorite as its one of these electron thingies, but it works
2168 [16:05:10] <nidhoegger> since we switched to it we do not have any problems with it
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2170 [16:05:29] <shtrb> but if you have XMPP or SIP you could even .. you know use yate/or any other software
2171 [16:06:03] <ychaouche> I don't know what electron is, I need to google that
2172 [16:06:29] <ychaouche> is that related to javascript ?
2173 [16:06:37] *** Joins: nicoOn28 (~nico@replaced-ip )
2174 [16:06:37] <nidhoegger> wtf
2175 [16:06:42] <ychaouche> electronjs is first search result
2176 [16:06:55] <ychaouche> build cross platform apps
2177 [16:06:56] *** Quits: nicoOn28 (~nico@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2178 [16:07:00] <jelly> that's the thing.
2179 [16:07:01] *** Joins: MikZyth (~MikZyth@replaced-ip )
2180 [16:07:04] <nidhoegger> basically its a website in a program
2181 [16:07:06] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip )
2182 [16:07:10] <nidhoegger> so you dont need to have the browser open
2183 [16:07:12] *** Joins: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip )
2184 [16:07:13] <greycat> Silly me, I thought it was an elementary particle with a negative charge.
2185 [16:07:22] <nidhoegger> and it adds some more features like notifications, etc
2186 [16:07:39] <ychaouche> if it works... why not, are you happy with mattermost ?
2187 [16:07:45] <nidhoegger> disadvantage: electron apps are memory hogs... mattermost desktop uses near to 1GB of Memory
2188 [16:07:54] <nidhoegger> which I hate because its just a fucking messenger
2189 [16:07:55] <ychaouche> :)
2190 [16:08:03] <shtrb> greycat, would get a big surprise when he will see proton mail, atom editor and few other particales
2191 [16:08:04] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, I liked my jabber
2192 [16:08:05] <ychaouche> that's a big no-no for me
2193 [16:08:09] *** Joins: CrystalMath (~coderain@replaced-ip )
2194 [16:08:10] *** Joins: Codier (~user@replaced-ip )
2195 [16:08:35] <nidhoegger> whats a big no-no?
2196 [16:08:44] <nidhoegger> if you want slim programs dont use the big solutions
2197 [16:08:47] <nidhoegger> slack is also a memory hog
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2200 [16:09:03] <shtrb> ychaouche, replaced-url
2201 [16:09:19] <ychaouche> does it have lighter clients ?
2202 [16:09:32] <ychaouche> shtrb, no thank you
2203 [16:09:37] <shtrb> telnet ?
2204 [16:09:40] <CrystalMath> windows 98 had a HTA thing, it was very lightweight :P
2205 [16:09:40] <nidhoegger> rofl
2206 [16:09:48] <nidhoegger> CrystalMath, sendmessage?
2207 [16:09:48] <shtrb> nc ?
2208 [16:09:53] <nidhoegger> nc is nice
2209 [16:10:03] <ychaouche> talk and wall were nice :)
2210 [16:10:10] <shtrb> they are still here
2211 [16:10:11] <CrystalMath> electron can go die in a fire
2212 [16:10:13] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, if you need to implement something in your company make a field research
2213 [16:10:16] <shtrb> I actually use them with systemd
2214 [16:10:44] <shtrb> *wall (to send messages like cake is ready)
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2216 [16:10:49] <ychaouche> nidhoegger, I'm in the field right now ^^
2217 [16:11:03] <nidhoegger> then install and try ans reasearcbh
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2219 [16:11:22] <ychaouche> shortcuts are nice too
2220 [16:11:24] <nidhoegger> my keyboard got broken... it wrote weird stuff
2221 [16:11:37] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, but what you seek is the swiss army knife
2222 [16:11:46] <ychaouche> not necessarily
2223 [16:11:53] <nidhoegger> you want a low memory, self hosted messenger that supports group chats, etc
2224 [16:12:00] <nidhoegger> and has very lightweight clients
2225 [16:12:16] <nidhoegger> *the group chat thingy was assumed
2226 [16:12:34] <shtrb> nidhoegger, maybe matrix ?
2227 [16:12:40] <shtrb> + irc + xmpp + sip ?
2228 [16:12:49] <nidhoegger> lol
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2232 [16:13:06] <nidhoegger> trillion messenger with a bunch of services?
2233 [16:13:07] <shtrb> sip for the desktop phones , the XMPP for all irc for the older generation
2234 [16:13:24] <shtrb> nidhoegger, openfire provide SIP and XMPP
2235 [16:13:25] <nidhoegger> omfg... am I really "the older generation"? :/
2236 [16:13:40] <greycat> If you have to ask, yes. Yes, you are. Welcome to the club.
2237 [16:13:44] <shtrb> do you know how to operate a rotary phone ?
2238 [16:13:45] <nidhoegger> IRC only if it has L and Q
2239 [16:13:51] <nidhoegger> for old times sake
2240 [16:13:54] <CrystalMath> i know 20-year-olds that use IRC
2241 [16:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1434
2242 [16:14:03] <CrystalMath> IRC is the best
2243 [16:14:17] <nidhoegger> CrystalMath, everyone I tell to go look on IRC they dont know what it is...
2244 [16:14:32] <nidhoegger> I love IRC since my BTX times
2245 [16:14:41] <shtrb> nidhoegger, if I would put a rotary phone infront of you and a say dial 911 would you be able to do that ? If yes I have bad news for you
2246 [16:14:59] <nidhoegger> :(
2247 [16:15:03] <CrystalMath> i'm 25 and i've been a freenode member for over 10 years
2248 [16:15:04] <nidhoegger> I would know how to :/
2249 [16:15:06] <shtrb> bad news ?
2250 [16:15:10] <CrystalMath> i would know how to as well
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2253 [16:15:17] <nidhoegger> It was a pain in the ass when dialing a number from another country
2254 [16:15:20] <CrystalMath> i still HAVE a rotary phone i USE
2255 [16:15:28] <shtrb> damn
2256 [16:15:28] <nidhoegger> and I had to often call into another country
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2258 [16:15:39] <nidhoegger> and it hat a lot of 7, 8 and 9 in it :/
2259 [16:15:50] <CrystalMath> also my mobile phone
2260 [16:15:54] <CrystalMath> is a nokia 3310
2261 [16:16:02] <shtrb> hi grandpa
2262 [16:16:08] <CrystalMath> i am very fond of retro things
2263 [16:16:11] <nidhoegger> actually there is a tutorial on the net how to put a nokia 3310 into a rotary phone
2264 [16:16:29] <nidhoegger> I always laugh when imagining that you receive a call on that :)
2265 [16:17:32] <nidhoegger> and still CrystalMath 's nokia has more battery life than my smartphone :P
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2270 [16:19:34] <CrystalMath> i am anti-smartphone and refuse to own one
2271 [16:19:40] <nidhoegger> thats okay
2272 [16:19:47] <nidhoegger> I miss the times of my old nokia 3210
2273 [16:20:06] <CrystalMath> if 2G gets shut down, i'm going to get one of those anti-smartphones
2274 [16:20:13] <CrystalMath> like, new phones that have no features
2275 [16:20:17] <CrystalMath> other than dialing and SMS
2276 [16:20:22] <nidhoegger> The new Nokia 3310 has 3G in some models
2277 [16:20:32] <nidhoegger> but its ugly and the battery life isnt that great
2278 [16:20:38] <CrystalMath> yes but does it have just calling and SMS?
2279 [16:20:45] <nidhoegger> yes
2280 [16:20:48] <CrystalMath> it's important for me that it does not run apps
2281 [16:20:57] <nidhoegger> it does not run apps
2282 [16:20:58] <CrystalMath> with an exception for javacard, just because nobody really uses that
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2284 [16:21:12] <nidhoegger> replaced-url
2285 [16:21:28] <nidhoegger> its a revamp of the old 3310
2286 [16:21:31] <nidhoegger> but not that great anymore
2287 [16:21:37] <CrystalMath> yeah :(
2288 [16:21:49] <nidhoegger> but with 3G
2289 [16:21:52] <CrystalMath> i have the original and 2G will persist here for another decade
2290 [16:22:00] <nidhoegger> in germany they will start shutting down 2G soon
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2293 [16:22:13] * petn-randall has doubts.
2294 [16:22:36] <nidhoegger> at least they say so
2295 [16:22:53] <ychaouche> it seems matrix and riot operate over HTTP, yes ?
2296 [16:23:02] <CrystalMath> they said possibly 2025 here
2297 [16:23:10] *** Quits: Itaipu (~itaipu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2298 [16:23:18] <nidhoegger> I see that some countries already shut it off (outside of europe)
2299 [16:23:35] <petn-randall> 3G/4G coverage is still at only 60-70% of the area. So it won't disappear any time soon. They cheat with the coverage numbers by claiming to have 90% of all _residents_, which is quite a different number.
2300 [16:23:54] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, i thought you were researching? click on the matrix homepage on FAQ, there its stated
2301 [16:24:26] <petn-randall> If you have a country like singapore it's fairly easy to just upgrade those three hotspots ;)
2302 [16:24:27] <CrystalMath> there are also e-ink phones
2303 [16:24:28] <shtrb> petn-randall, coverage is not a function for considuration, they might do as they did in the third world and just bump to 4G devices that also provide 3G coverage
2304 [16:24:31] <nidhoegger> petn-randall, of which area?
2305 [16:24:40] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: .de
2306 [16:24:44] <nidhoegger> I understand that a forest is not covered
2307 [16:24:46] <nidhoegger> why should it
2308 [16:25:04] <nidhoegger> the cities and the connections between the cities have all 4G for me
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2310 [16:25:08] <shtrb> network attached trees ?
2311 [16:25:13] <nidhoegger> IoTree?
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2314 [16:25:40] <shtrb> that's already exist (trees are interconnected with a root system)
2315 [16:25:46] <nidhoegger> :)
2316 [16:25:46] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: The routes between cities are not counted for the prettified coverage, as those aren't residential areas.
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2319 [16:26:14] <nidhoegger> I dont see a problem with the coverage in germany with 3G/4G
2320 [16:26:18] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: Well, you don't want to watch youtube videos in the forrest, but you might want to call an ambulance if you get hit by a tree.
2321 [16:26:19] <nidhoegger> at least not at the places I spend my time
2322 [16:26:38] <nidhoegger> petn-randall, if I am hit by a tree I dont think I can call an ambulance
2323 [16:26:41] <shtrb> ok they are more like lans and not the internet
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2325 [16:27:03] <nidhoegger> what about coverage of the sea?
2326 [16:27:14] <CrystalMath> nidhoegger: well let's not be negative
2327 [16:27:14] <shtrb> in what worls does trees hit nidhoegger ?
2328 [16:27:15] <nidhoegger> If you are on a boat on your own and get eaten by a shark you might want to call an ambulance too
2329 [16:27:26] <petn-randall> nidhoegger: nobody lives there = doesn't count in the prettified coverage.
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2331 [16:27:35] <nidhoegger> there are people living on houseboats
2332 [16:27:42] <CrystalMath> just tell your government that until 4G is available in every nook and cranny, 2G must live on
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2334 [16:27:45] <shtrb> in harbour
2335 [16:27:45] <CrystalMath> then get a nokia 3310
2336 [16:27:50] <nidhoegger> CrystalMath, lol :)
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2338 [16:28:14] <ychaouche> hmm, I wonder if nextcloud has a desktop IM client
2339 [16:28:22] <CrystalMath> nidhoegger: btw there are Punkt phones
2340 [16:28:25] <nidhoegger> ychaouche, dont we wonder all?
2341 [16:28:29] <shtrb> why do you need another client ?
2342 [16:28:31] <CrystalMath> they have a long battery life, and a monochrome screen
2343 [16:28:34] <nidhoegger> nextcloud resides in the office next to me, shall I ask them?
2344 [16:28:54] <nidhoegger> CrystalMath, lets be honest, the best argument for a nokia 3310 is snake :)
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2346 [16:29:23] <shtrb> ychaouche, nextcloud can do XMPP
2347 [16:30:08] <ychaouche> oh, I didn't know that !
2348 [16:30:35] <ychaouche> I have nextcloud installed, maybe I need to read the admin guide to see how I can make the most out of it
2349 [16:30:37] <shtrb> and provide webdav
2350 [16:30:53] <nidhoegger> and legend says that it can store files
2351 [16:30:53] <ychaouche> out of the XMPP server that is
2352 [16:30:53] <shtrb> you can use your standard apps with it
2353 [16:30:55] <petn-randall> Hmm, didn't notice that we're in the wrong channel. Let's move to #debian-offtopic.
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2355 [16:30:58] <petn-randall> !ot
2356 [16:30:58] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
2357 [16:31:12] <ychaouche> sorry :-'(
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2359 [16:31:19] <shtrb> sorry
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2361 [16:31:41] <petn-randall> No worries, I'm guilty, too ;)
2362 [16:31:54] <nidhoegger> hmmm... sometimes the mind wanders off :) i am sorry too
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2381 [16:43:26] <InvisibleRasta> jelly, are you available?
2382 [16:43:55] <InvisibleRasta> i am having issues with the install... i installed kde after bootstrapping as u suggested and all... i can start kde but all the apps dont load
2383 [16:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1428
2384 [16:44:08] <InvisibleRasta> i click on icons and nothing happens
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2386 [16:44:37] <somiaj> often times errors are outputted to ~/.xsession-errors
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2422 [17:03:46] <de-facto> Guys, when i "apt update" i get many "KEYEXPIRED 1535644863" GPG errors. now "apt-key list | grep expired" is empty, so how can i remove that expired key?
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2429 [17:07:30] <jelly> de-facto: which debian release are you using? Pastebin the complete output.
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2432 [17:08:26] <de-facto> jelly its a jessie installation
2433 [17:08:58] <de-facto> the key is from deb.torproject.org
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2435 [17:09:04] <troulouliou_div2> hi can the network installer for aarch64 start with console output ? i m trying with virt-install but i can not get access to console
2436 [17:09:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
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2438 [17:09:23] <pagios> hi all, i have server from which i would like to send an email, is there a way to send an email using a dummy small email server? i just need to use for notification and prefer not deploying a full fledged emailserver to do this task thanks
2439 [17:09:48] <greycat> ,info ssmtp
2440 [17:09:49] <judd> Package ssmtp (mail, extra) in stretch/amd64: extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a mail hub. Version: 2.64-8+b2; Size: 52.9k; Installed: 2k; Homepage: replaced-url
2441 [17:09:55] *** Quits: hayer (~hayer@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2442 [17:10:01] <pagios> thanks
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2448 [17:11:08] <jelly> or msmtp-mta or nullmailer or ... there are probably more
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2451 [17:12:02] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
2452 [17:12:09] <greycat> or you could just use a real MTA, like exim4, and simply tell it that all your outgoing mail is to be sent through such-and-such smarthost
2453 [17:12:20] <jelly> I was missing something from ssmtp last time I looked at it, msmtp was a bit more featured, for a nulmailer.
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2455 [17:13:13] <jelly> if you have a smarthost willing to accept unencrypted unauthed connection then any of those is fine
2456 [17:13:46] <jelly> I use nullmailer in chroots. Because I'm not rich enough for containers.
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2459 [17:14:06] <Matt|home> hi . using apt , is there a specific flag for installing only the absolute mininum required packaged necessary? for example now im using something called no-recommends , which just removes recommended packages. even so it looks like apt is installing some other stuff that might not be necessary ?
2460 [17:14:17] <Matt|home> or the minimum dependencies or whatever they're called
2461 [17:14:28] <jelly> Matt|home: that's it.
2462 [17:14:33] <Matt|home> no-recommends ?
2463 [17:14:47] <Matt|home> hm i guess this is just a big package. alright
2464 [17:14:49] <Matt|home> thanks jelly
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2474 [17:20:49] <pagios> greycat, so i use localhost as a relay server or configure ssmpt as a client to an external email server/
2475 [17:21:04] <greycat> "using localhost as a relay server" makes zero sense.
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2477 [17:21:39] <jelly> Matt|home: some packages have alternative dependencies, if none of the alternatives are installed they will pull in the first option by default
2478 [17:21:43] <pagios> greycat, like spawn a local small email server
2479 [17:21:48] <pagios> just to send
2480 [17:22:09] <greycat> A relay server, or smarthost, or hub, is the server that you hand all of your (localhost's) mail to, so that it can deliver it for you.
2481 [17:22:12] <jelly> Matt|home: that's another way to install more than you bargained for
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2483 [17:22:38] <jelly> Matt|home: if you have a concrete example, show us
2484 [17:22:40] <jelly> !bat
2485 [17:22:41] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2486 [17:22:42] <jelly> Matt|home: ^
2487 [17:22:49] <Matt|home> jelly : im just working on drive space limits at the moment, so im seeing what i can get away with. no big deal
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2493 [17:24:50] <jelly> pagios: there are all sorts of things to consider and take care if you want a MTA that is able to send mails on its own and have them successfully delievered. So in general you don't want that extra work, so you configure ssmtp to use some other "real" mail server.
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2496 [17:26:07] <anao> hello@all does anyone knows why radeon reset gfxpayload to vga after grub2 1280x1024 on boot? (SID)
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2518 [17:35:58] <trysten> I'm having a strange issue i hope someone here can explain to me. Nearly any hostname is returning an ipaddress when I ping it. Or try to ssh to it. I discovered this by trying to connect to a known host on my network by hostname `laptop`
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2522 [17:37:47] <trysten> well, ssh complained about a host-key change and I found the host was actually down. so i `ping laptop` and see it's ip is 104.239.207.44
2523 [17:38:21] <trysten> how/why is my box resolving one part hostnames to internet addresses?
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2527 [17:39:29] <jelly> trysten: local resolver library it uses configuration /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf to figure out name -> ip mappings.
2528 [17:39:37] <jelly> s/it //
2529 [17:39:38] <greycat> Name resolution is done by first consulting /etc/nsswitch.conf to see where to look. If that hasn't been changed, it will look in /etc/hosts first, and then it will try DNS. DNS is configured by /etc/resolv.conf which may be a plain file, or a symlink to a file elsewhere, and may be dynamically managed by various daemons.
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2533 [17:40:45] <jelly> trysten: so. Look at the hosts line in /etc/nsswitch.conf first, then (likely, but depending on nsswitch.conf config) at resolv.conf
2534 [17:41:01] <greycat> well, it would be good to check /etc/hosts as well
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2544 [17:44:14] <pagios> jelly, greycat is this ok? /opt/backup.sh > /opt/backup.log && tail -10 /opt/backup.log | sendmail mymail@domain.com
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2546 [17:44:35] <greycat> You don't invoke sendmail directly like that. You invoke mailx instead.
2547 [17:45:00] <greycat> tail -10 logfile | mailx -s "backup log $(date +%Y-%m-%d)" mymail@mydomain
2548 [17:45:01] <pagios> the && is ok? will it wait?
2549 [17:45:08] <greycat> Yes.
2550 [17:45:12] <pagios> thank you
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2570 [17:55:18] <jelly> pagios: that line, however, will only send mail if /opt/backup.sh is successful (exits with a 0 return code)
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2572 [17:55:34] <pagios> thats the idea
2573 [17:55:39] <pagios> if i dont receive a mail i question
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2587 [18:05:15] <trysten> my line is hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns
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2589 [18:05:41] <trysten> This doesn't seem quite right. mdns isn't going to have the results i want, is it?
2590 [18:05:54] <jelly> trysten: that's the default, it's fine
2591 [18:06:55] <greycat> That just means you look in /etc/hosts first, and then in /etc/resolv.conf
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2594 [18:09:39] <jelly> er, /etc/hosts, then local lan broadcast for mdns, then resolv.conf
2595 [18:11:06] <SpeedyG> hm, for some reason pam_mkhomedir doesnt do its job when logging in over ssh with ldap auth... any ideas where I Can look for why this doesnt work ?
2596 [18:11:10] <jelly> trysten: "strace -f getent hosts laptop" can help figuring out where the result is coming from
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2621 [18:24:00] <trysten> seems like it's coming from the router.
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2625 [18:24:25] <trysten> I've never used strace before. Thank you for showing me how. I'm still investigating
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2628 [18:26:05] <trysten> Yup. My router is misbehaving. Thanks jelly, greycat, and #debian! love you peeps
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2646 [18:35:15] <no_gravity> What was the grep switch to only show the names of matching files?
2647 [18:36:32] <greycat> -l, --files-with-matches
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2649 [18:36:54] <no_gravity> greycat: Yay! Thanks!
2650 [18:37:06] * petn-randall wonders if there is a place were things like that are documented ...
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2653 [18:37:41] <no_gravity> petan: I searched for it in the grep man but did not find it.
2654 [18:37:51] <no_gravity> petan: Searched for 'names only' and similar terms.
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2658 [18:39:25] * petn-randall looks at petan.
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2661 [18:40:22] <joepublic> petn-randall, if someone searches duckduckgo for the exact string "What was the grep switch to only show the names of matching files?" an info box comes up and says "-l". That the kind of thing you are looking for?
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2668 [18:43:31] <petn-randall> joepublic: Was this meant for no_gravity?
2669 [18:44:45] <joepublic> No, his question was about what the switch was, and greycat answered that already. You were just asking whether it might have been documented somewhere, and I figured that an infobox plus the first five search results saying "-l" might count.
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2671 [18:45:25] <no_gravity> ddg for the win!
2672 [18:45:29] <joepublic> Though to be honest it was intended to convey important information to no_gravity as well.
2673 [18:45:50] <petn-randall> joepublic: It was meant ironically, as we usually point people to the man page for those questions.
2674 [18:46:02] <joepublic> meant ironically. yes.
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2677 [18:46:39] <n4dir> a pity the funny manpages don't exist anymore.
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2681 [18:47:23] <petn-randall> n4dir: Which were the funny ones?
2682 [18:47:54] <n4dir> petn-randall: iirc they were called like that. Just stuff for entertainment. And i think it got removed from the repos.
2683 [18:48:12] <n4dir> just stuff to add a bit of fun in discussions, nothing really useful.
2684 [18:48:39] <greycat> replaced-url
2685 [18:48:42] <n4dir> say like sl.
2686 [18:48:50] <n4dir> greycat: ye-haw ! thanks for the info
2687 [18:49:07] <greycat> I didn't know either. It was what google gave me.
2688 [18:49:19] <greycat> I do remember the package, but I didn't know it had been removed, or that it was being re-packaged.
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2692 [18:49:49] <n4dir> now and then i want to make a bit of fun, then want to link to the debian package. It's the only reason i know it was removed.
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2695 [18:50:37] <n4dir> when "man" is mentioned, discussions often start to get a bit too serious.
2696 [18:50:55] <greycat> how about when "info" is mentioned?
2697 [18:51:19] <n4dir> ha ha. the brutal truth: i yet have not figured out how to use them. So i better hide in silence.
2698 [18:52:04] <greycat> The easiest way, in my opinion: "info rm | less"
2699 [18:52:19] <greycat> That works for most of them.
2700 [18:52:21] <n4dir> noted. thanks for the info
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2783 [19:45:34] <guest-12345678> is there a special trick to get vim symbols working with xfonts-terminus (my locale setting is in order)
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2789 [19:50:35] <InvisibleRasta> hello guys i isntalled debian with bootstrap method then i installed kde and xorg, i can boot to X but all the kde apps dont open up when i click on them
2790 [19:50:38] <InvisibleRasta> like konsole
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2794 [19:56:02] <joepublic> What happens instead? can you start anything with alt-f2?
2795 [19:56:52] <InvisibleRasta> no
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2798 [19:57:06] <InvisibleRasta> it displays the laoding mouse
2799 [19:57:09] <InvisibleRasta> but nothing happens
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2810 [19:59:42] <hk238> Hi I'm using debian with KDE and I have a problem with microphone not working, any quick tips on what to do? :D
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2813 [20:00:36] <jehorn> hk238, What kind of mic is it? - built-in? USB?
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2815 [20:00:58] <hk238> an old regular mic
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2822 [20:03:28] <hk238> hmm the mic sound is getting directly played as audio rather than recorded it seems
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2895 [20:43:07] <CrayOsicom> Hello fellow Debian peeps! I am having a strange problem. On a new, fresh, netinst of 9.6, I chose all the window managers I wanted (desktop environments?) but at login, when I pick MATE or XDM, it still seems to load cinnamon. What did I do wrong?
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2901 [20:44:58] <converge> Anyone know where can I find libxul.so to run firefox ?
2902 [20:45:00] <CrayOsicom> note: I am logging in as root, could that have anything to do with it?
2903 [20:45:24] <converge> I search for xulrunner , but I couldn't find the package
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2908 [20:47:57] <at0m> CrayOsicom: don't log in as root into anything graphical. root's place is on console.
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2911 [20:48:20] <at0m> CrayOsicom: but this has nothing to do with your problem
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2914 [20:50:47] <at0m> converge: here, libxul.so is part of the firefox package. where did you get your firefox? on what debian version?
2915 [20:51:11] <at0m> there's a libxul.so in firefox-esr, too
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2918 [20:52:24] <converge> at0m, thanks! I installed libxt6 and it fixed everything, magic
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2920 [20:52:53] <chriswitt> hello, i installed as snap (nextcloud) now i see all data it writes belongs to root. is this normal or did i create a security mess, having nextcloud-snap run as root?
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2997 [21:44:51] <jhutchins_wk> .
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3052 [22:25:18] <jhutchins_wk> No traffic for over an hour?
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3088 [22:49:27] <maxrazer> Does the unofficial firmware image have the nvidia proprietary driver? I'm not clear on that.
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3092 [22:50:12] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: It's not firmware, it's third-party software, so no.
3093 [22:50:40] <maxrazer> jhutchins_wk, Ok, I didn't really think it was firmware. Is wireless driver firmware though?
3094 [22:50:49] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: It does come with a driver that will give you at least minimal VGA, and you can install the proprietary driver later.
3095 [22:51:07] <maxrazer> I'm using the official 9.6 and the open source driver gets me up and running.
3096 [22:51:10] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: Two different components, driver + firmware.
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3099 [22:51:53] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: wifi firmware has things like frequency tables and power limits (to comply with national regulations).
3100 [22:52:00] <maxrazer> There is some mode 0 error I'm getting with my graphics card when I try to swith between tty and logout. It does it with the open source and proprietary driver, but it is even worse with the proprietary driver so I have to hard reboot the computer.
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3104 [22:52:32] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: Which proprietary are you using?
3105 [22:52:32] <maxrazer> I think it is the model of the card compatability. It is a 1080ti.
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3107 [22:53:03] <jhutchins_wk> Oh, I have that, works fine for me. I'm on the "latest stable" direct from Nvidia.
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3110 [22:53:33] <jhutchins_wk> Just upgraded from jessie to stretch and it went pretty smoothly.
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3113 [22:54:16] <maxrazer> jhutchins_wk, What? I thought you were supposed to never use the driver direct from nvidia. I use the sid nvidia driver from non-free
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3115 [22:54:45] <maxrazer> jhutchins_wk, Have you tried going to another tty and then logging out of that tty and see what happens?
3116 [22:55:20] <maxrazer> I've always had this problem since using Debian and this card. But I never used Debian before I got this computer/card.
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3130 [22:57:36] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: The Nvidia direct drivers are not supported in the #debian channels, but that's what's eventually imported to the non-free repos.
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3132 [22:58:21] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: If you have a clean system - no cruft from trying the dkms drivers or other exceptions, you download the package and run it. It even sets up dkms.
3133 [22:58:34] <maxrazer> jhutchins_wk, So, why do you use it instead of from the unstable? It seems about the same version.
3134 [22:58:45] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: Then again, lockups with sid ... pretty much expected.
3135 [22:58:58] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: No, I use stable + the direct driver.
3136 [22:59:04] <maxrazer> I believe I had the same problem with stable and I haven't had problems with sid in general.
3137 [22:59:19] <jhutchins_wk> maxrazer: The nv kernel module wasn't new enough to detect my card.
3138 [22:59:33] <jhutchins_wk> Time for me to hit the road.
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3140 [22:59:46] <maxrazer> jhutchins_wk, You could use backport version or tell it to just use the sid one.
3141 [22:59:49] <maxrazer> ok
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3158 [23:07:07] <Zta77> Does Debian have snappy/snap packages?
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3161 [23:07:48] <annadane> ,v snapd
3162 [23:07:49] <judd> Package: snapd on amd64 -- stretch: 2.21-2+b1; buster: 2.30-5+b1; sid: 2.30-5+b1
3163 [23:07:54] <annadane> yeah ^
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3165 [23:07:55] <n4dir> apt-cache search snap doesn't tell?
3166 [23:08:07] <maxrazer> Zta, You install "snapd"
3167 [23:08:11] * annadane uses flatpaks, not snaps
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3171 [23:09:04] <Zta> n4dir: I'm not currently on Debian. I'm in a state of transitioning from Ubuntu =) And I'm not very fond of snaps.
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3173 [23:09:34] <n4dir> Zta: i see. You could always check at packages.debian.org (well: or with the bot dpkg)
3174 [23:10:00] * n4dir has no clue of snap of flatpaks or such and wonders if he should care
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3176 [23:10:07] <maxrazer> Zta, You shouldn't need to use snaps for anything.
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3182 [23:12:49] <storrgie> is it possible to list packages by install date (chronology of installed packages) by using dpkg or apt?
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3187 [23:14:15] <Zta> n4dir: I'd expect the snap package system to be available (and therefore present in the repos); I just wanted to know if it was installed by default.
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3192 [23:16:11] <greycat> storrgie: there's the logs (/var/log/apt* and /var/log/dpkg*) and nothing else AFAIK
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3197 [23:19:25] <Ede|Popede> and with enough diskspace there's /var/cache/apt and ctime (at least as long as they stay on the partition and apt-get instead of apt)
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3212 [23:29:24] <troulouliou_div2> hi i m trying to install debian armhf with virt-install but during install it says it cant find the ethernet driver
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3214 [23:29:41] <troulouliou_div2> are there no virtio driver in the default armhf kernel ??
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3239 [23:48:44] <dkmueller> how would be the best way to inform myself if I want to know when the Emacs package in debian 9 gets an update?
3240 [23:49:06] <somiaj> dkmueller: subscribe to the DSA
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3242 [23:49:41] <somiaj> most likely it won't get an update, but most updates will be due to security issues, which are all have an email sent out via a DSA
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3245 [23:50:07] <somiaj> I think there are cron jobs you can have email you too, to catch other non security related updates, though these are rare, and only to fix very bad bugs.
3246 [23:50:11] <annadane> the way debian stable works is except for rare exceptions, it doesn't get new software
3247 [23:50:30] <annadane> if you want newer emacs, compile from source or do what i do and use a flatpak
3248 [23:50:37] <dkmueller> I encountered that some packages need Emacs 25 (24 is default), but then I will install use another way
3249 [23:50:47] <annadane> oh, you can apt install emacs25
3250 [23:50:50] <annadane> it's in Stretch
3251 [23:50:59] <dkmueller> wow, thank you
3252 [23:51:05] <dkmueller> that's a nice solution
3253 [23:51:18] <annadane> emacs is a bit strange like that. it has 25.1 but the "emacs" metapackage defaults to 24
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3255 [23:51:55] <annadane> the absolute latest is 26.1 - i think even unstable only has 25.2 still - for which i use a flatpak
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3257 [23:54:01] <somiaj> yea, debian sometimes provides multiple versions via different package names.
3258 [23:54:03] <somiaj> ,v emacs25
3259 [23:54:05] <judd> Package: emacs25 on amd64 -- stretch: 25.1+1-4+deb9u1; stretch-security: 25.1+1-4+deb9u1; buster: 1:25.2+1-11; sid: 1:25.2+1-11
3260 [23:54:15] <somiaj> ,v emacs26
3261 [23:54:16] <judd> No package named 'emacs26' was found in amd64.
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3263 [23:55:02] <annadane> i hypothesize that it's due to upgrade compatibility with jessie
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3269 [23:56:47] <somiaj> more likely matainer decisions, sometimes a major release is enough different they create a new package, so both the new version and old are available
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