People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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18 [00:10:19] <arCABAL> replaced-url
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24 [00:12:45] <EdePopede> next step would be a privacy aware FOSS version of Alexa, or is there something yet?
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27 [00:13:29] <tradar> thanks, will read @ arCABAL
28 [00:13:56] <EdePopede> oh. Mycroft and Jasper at least.
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45 [00:23:48] <scatterbrainz> good evening ....this is voice of elinux .....we will take you with us....
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55 [00:29:41] <dvs> then we will take you SSDs
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58 [00:31:46] <joepublic> Maybe he means out for pizza.
59 [00:32:25] <phogg> I could go for some pizza about now.
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272 [03:33:57] <ryouma> with the upgrade from firefox-esr 52 to 60 (on jessie and maybe stretch), are all of the xul-ext-* packages null and void?
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274 [03:34:30] <ryouma> should i do apt-get purge xul-ext-*? will that obliterate any prefs.js settings should i find we replacements?
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286 [03:45:01] <Krennic> hmm i dont see any difference between debian and ubuntu
287 [03:45:29] <Krennic> im trying both in a virtualbox
288 [03:45:50] <Krennic> i dont see difference
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298 [03:55:32] <joepublic> I have noticed some differences here and there.
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309 [04:05:24] <qu1nn_pr0> a long time ago, I used to make use of a indexer called beagle; that project seems to have died off; Does anyone have a suggestion for an indexer that where you can search within email, docs, spreadsheets, pdf, html, txt etc. that has a nice user interface and is quick to use?
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311 [04:06:00] <joepublic> I like synapse.
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316 [04:07:55] <joepublic> I, too, came to it because I couldn't find a recent version of whatever I used before, but I don't remember what I used before.
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331 [04:16:32] <ham5urg> In which way are the compiler settings in Debian organized? Per package or globally? Where can I find them?
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334 [04:18:21] <themill> ham5urg: dpkg-buildflags; look in the source package debian/rules.
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336 [04:19:16] <ham5urg> themill: thanks
337 [04:20:55] <ham5urg> I have an odd problem, my software (some CPU mining stuff) on Debian runs lot slower than e.g Ubuntu16.04.
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339 [04:21:23] <ham5urg> Ubuntu17.04 onwards has the same problem.
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342 [04:22:27] <ham5urg> I can't find out why. I tried to cut out Meltdown/Spectre-protection via Grub.
343 [04:22:41] <ham5urg> Doesn't help.
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347 [04:23:58] <ham5urg> Are the newer compiler doing stuff to protect the code from Meltdown/Spectre?
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394 [05:08:18] <N3X15> Any idea of when rsync 3.1.3 will be available? 3.1.2 isn't compatible, apparently.
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405 [05:14:30] <themill> N3X15: it will never be in stretch
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411 [05:16:27] <N3X15> Thanks, I guess?
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419 [05:21:19] <themill> perhaps describe your real problem?
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422 [05:28:03] <N3X15> I develop stuff on Windows and deploy to a Debian stretch testing server for testing. The deploy script uses rsync. I had to reinstall my computer recently and now it's throwing code 12s at me. Since the windows computer has rsync 3.1.3 and the server 3.1.2, and the error references them, I am working through the assumption, in my debugging process, that the mismatch may be part of the problem.
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424 [05:28:27] <szbce8qnfg> .net?
425 [05:29:16] <N3X15> No, .NET isn't the problem.
426 [05:29:19] <N3X15> replaced-url
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429 [05:31:12] <themill> N3X15: have you checked whether ssh is connecting to that machine OK?
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431 [05:32:45] <N3X15> Yes
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434 [05:33:09] <N3X15> themill, it's headless with no monitor, and I use PuTTY just fine.
435 [05:33:22] <themill> rsync isn't using putty though
436 [05:33:38] <N3X15> PuTTY is an SSH client, or at least in the way I use it.
437 [05:34:07] <N3X15> And rsync uses SSH to communicate with the server.
438 [05:34:14] <themill> rsync isn't using putty though
439 [05:34:20] <N3X15> I know that.
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442 [05:34:37] <themill> I think you should try doing exactly what rsync is doing
443 [05:34:45] <N3X15> And given that I had to accept a key exchange before it started producing code 12s, I think it's OK.
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447 [05:39:43] <N3X15> themill: replaced-url
448 [05:40:36] <themill> is the blank line from your prompt?
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455 [05:49:02] <N3X15> themill, probably
456 [05:49:17] <N3X15> I didn't change the prompt, though
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506 [06:38:51] <RoyK> N3X15: 12 is "Error in rsync protocol data stream" - I doubt it's changed a lot from 3.1.2 to 3.1.3
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609 [08:34:57] <wr> want to install falkon browser but only has a buster and sid, i'm currently using stretch, will i be able to install it, without making my system unstable?
610 [08:37:33] <diogenes_> wr, i've buit a package for it
611 [08:37:44] <diogenes_> if you not afraid of prexompiled stuff
612 [08:37:59] <diogenes_> i can share with you, otherwise you need to sue flatpak
613 [08:38:02] <diogenes_> or appimage
614 [08:38:18] <diogenes_> precompiled*
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618 [08:40:52] <wr> diogenes_, but regarding the question, if i put buster or sid will it makes things unstable?
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620 [08:41:39] <diogenes_> wr, general rule is not to mix the packages from different versions
621 [08:41:46] <diogenes_> but you can try in a vm
622 [08:42:01] <wr> diogenes_, ok, will do this other way then
623 [08:42:46] <diogenes_> wr, but to tell you, falkon is the best open source browser you can get, it was worth compiling fot 7 hours
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625 [08:43:02] <wr> diogenes_, i know
626 [08:43:48] <wr> diogenes_, it seemed very good as soon i saw its good coded site
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628 [08:44:43] <diogenes_> wr, light years faster than ff and also lighweight, very good thing!
629 [08:45:23] <wr> off course its python
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632 [08:49:59] <wr> diogenes_, run it portable on win, looks good
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635 [08:51:15] <diogenes_> wr, the downside of the official version is that it is not compiled with proprietary codecs, thus you gonan lack some functionality, my package is compiled with proprietary codecs supposrt so all is super cool.
636 [08:52:07] <wr> diogenes_, ok, can share
637 [08:52:26] <diogenes_> ok
638 [08:52:28] <diogenes_> justa sec
639 [08:53:29] <wr> diogenes_, but either way i have to install it on another debian, right?
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641 [08:54:43] <diogenes_> wr, it's for stretch: replaced-url
642 [08:55:01] <diogenes_> it doesn't touch your system libraries, it's installing all the libs in /opt
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644 [08:56:21] <wr> diogenes_, will the deb work on a ubuntu too?
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646 [08:56:48] <diogenes_> wr, ubuntu 18.04 already has it in repos
647 [08:56:53] <diogenes_> no tweaking needed
648 [08:57:07] <wr> diogenes_, cool
649 [08:57:23] <diogenes_> btw, my package comes with 5 additional themes
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681 [09:26:26] <RoyK> is there such a thing as a system running all network-connected apps in containers, automagically? it should be fairly safe…
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696 [09:34:30] <dutchfish> RoyK, depends on what you call apps, there are actual severaly.
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698 [09:35:13] <dutchfish> RoyK, lxc, docker and most of the larger virtual hypervisors can do that.
699 [09:35:26] <dutchfish> not automagically
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702 [09:36:10] <dutchfish> RoyK, what do you want to achive?
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705 [09:37:37] <RoyK> dutchfish: just a thought - if everything is isolated, it'd be rather safe
706 [09:38:00] <dutchfish> RoyK, that is a huge mistake to think that way.
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708 [09:38:53] <dutchfish> RoyK, sure, by carefull process separation you can get a greater security barrier, but only to certain extends.
709 [09:39:11] <dutchfish> RoyK, and it needs carefull planning.
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714 [09:41:12] <dutchfish> RoyK, studying the kernel's ring topology can give you insight in this and how to coop with it later on when implementing it.
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717 [09:43:09] <dutchfish> RoyK, it will not be safer then the safety level of your hardware.
718 [09:43:33] <dutchfish> keep that in mind.
719 [09:43:41] <RoyK> dutchfish: I know the ring topology etc, but it's quite normal for bugs to appear in userspace software, that can make a lot of mess even without root access
720 [09:43:53] <dutchfish> true
721 [09:44:13] <RoyK> hence the question
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723 [09:45:04] <dutchfish> RoyK, well, i gues, if spearating userland from the bare metal is your goal. containers are the way to go. But rem what i already said.
724 [09:45:13] <dutchfish> separating*
725 [09:45:29] <dutchfish> !lxc
726 [09:45:29] <dpkg> Linux Containers (LXC) is an open source virtualization system using kernel-level isolation. replaced-url
727 [09:45:39] <RoyK> dutchfish: I know quite a bit about how computers and linux works
728 [09:45:47] <RoyK> that wasn't the question
729 [09:46:00] <dutchfish> RoyK, ok, sorry for that.
730 [09:46:37] <dutchfish> RoyK, back to your initial app question. The answer is 'no' at the moment.
731 [09:46:57] <RoyK> it'd be neat, though
732 [09:47:29] <RoyK> web browsers are quite imfamous of fucking up, after all, since they're the main target for a lot of worms etc
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734 [09:48:12] <dutchfish> RoyK, well, browsers will completely sandboxed in the very near future anyway.
735 [09:48:58] <dutchfish> RoyK, but this is a bit offtopic, let us take this to #debian-offtopic
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772 [10:33:14] <wr> diogenes_, running it now, looks pretty cool
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774 [10:33:48] <diogenes_> wr, on stretch?
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776 [10:34:02] <wr> diogenes_, on a lubuntu for a test
777 [10:34:16] <diogenes_> yeah it's good
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811 [10:51:51] <jim> hi... if I want to build a web server with ssl/tls support, what would I need to install for that?
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813 [10:53:51] <mcon> I am on up-to-date Debian Sid. After a rather large set of package installation (task-cinnamon-desktop -> task-gnome-desktop) I have a completely non-functional clipboard. Neither cut/paste nor "middle mouse paste" work at all. In gnome-terminal selection resets almost immediately. What should I check? Reinstalling should be kept as last resort.
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816 [10:54:12] <RoyK> jim: install apache or nginx or whatever and letsencrypt/certbot
817 [10:54:20] <dutchfish> jim, assuming you want apache2 and running a letsencrypt cert.? replaced-url
818 [10:54:22] <RoyK> !debian-next
819 [10:54:22] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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832 [11:00:27] <jim> dutchfish, RoyK, no, it's naviserv, and I'm building it from source... I just need to know what to install to support those kind of certs that letsencrypt issues
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838 [11:01:20] <dutchfish> jim, replaced-url
839 [11:02:02] <jim> I was at that site but didn't see that dir... let me look
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841 [11:02:38] <dutchfish> jim, bare in mind that not all runs well within naviserver, some modules still needs some tlc, but letsencrypt works fine.
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843 [11:03:28] <dutchfish> jim, dont forget to disable TLSV1 and friends.
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845 [11:04:19] <jim> also maybe I don't have tcllib (I thought I installed it though)'
846 [11:04:43] <jim> here's where I am...
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850 [11:05:30] <dutchfish> jim, i cant check that atm, running some heavy compile batches.
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853 [11:07:03] <jim> I'm trying to run the ./configure script of naviserv, and I believe one of its modules, not sure which, is saying there's no tls stuff enabled, so I'm trying to install the build depends that I think might support it... but I'm taking shots in the dark as far as which to install
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856 [11:08:34] <dutchfish> jim, just follow the breadcrumbs on compile.
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859 [11:09:46] <dutchfish> jim, or apt-rdepends --build-depends foo
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863 [11:10:49] <dutchfish> but that works only on deb source packages
864 [11:11:39] <jim> I wrote my own "breadcrumbs" that tell me how to configure or build the various parts of this thing, but I never needed ssl/tls before, and now that I have a stretch remote, I can put naviserv on it with the new stuff (additionally, I need certs for taskwarrior's taskd, but that's for another day)
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867 [11:11:58] <dutchfish> jim, ah ic
868 [11:12:38] <jim> when you say "breadcrumbs". what are you referring to exactly?
869 [11:12:50] <dutchfish> jim, the missing deps.
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872 [11:13:52] <jim> ok, let me look at the rdepends for naviserv
873 [11:14:00] <dutchfish> jim, replaced-url
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885 [11:20:49] <jim> could it be naviserver has been removed?
886 [11:20:59] <jim> let me look at that link
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894 [11:25:08] <dutchfish> jim, replaced-url
895 [11:25:10] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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898 [11:26:13] <dutchfish> jim, so your current ticket is only replaced-url
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900 [11:26:46] <dutchfish> (as i said the modules need some tlc)
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903 [11:27:06] <jim> well I downloaded the source tarballs from sf.net
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905 [11:28:10] <dutchfish> jim, well, i cant tell, i use pulls from the last link i gave you.
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907 [11:28:34] <jim> oh? are you running naviserv?
908 [11:28:49] <dutchfish> jim, not really, but expirimenting with it.
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910 [11:29:05] <dutchfish> jim, its not in a good shape atm.
911 [11:29:32] <jim> it runs an old but still maintained web framework called openacs
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913 [11:30:25] <dutchfish> jim, think security on each step ....
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926 [11:33:20] <dutchfish> jim, nothing wrong with openacs, but navi is not in good shape.
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930 [11:33:43] <dutchfish> replaced-url
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935 [11:36:00] <jim> yep I wrote a script that takes the openacs tarballs and separates them into debian source packages... I didn't get all the way with it, and it was before they threw those packages, which are all of the tarball in one package, rather than each openacs package in one debian package, with depends
936 [11:36:12] <jim> I got maybe halfway
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938 [11:36:25] <dutchfish> jim, kudos!
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940 [11:36:57] <jim> I was hoping to get help with putting the rest of the depends in
941 [11:37:13] <dutchfish> jim, if i only had more time ......
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946 [11:38:19] <AquaL1te> i thought i read somewhere that debian buster would have uefi support + secure boot. but can't find it in the release goals. is this really on the table or not?
947 [11:38:28] <jim> maybe I'll dig it out and see if it still splits the tarball the way it did
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950 [11:39:30] <dutchfish> jim, good luck and if you have specific build/package questions, there is also #debian-maintainers
951 [11:39:52] <jim> on freenode?
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953 [11:40:02] <dutchfish> jim, OFTC
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958 [11:40:47] <jim> well I asked debian-mentors, but the guy I talked to seemed like he was against the idea that you install the packages and then added code to them to customize
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961 [11:40:53] <dutchfish> jim, err. OFTC/debian-mentors
962 [11:41:02] <jim> which was the original idea
963 [11:41:08] <jim> yeah
964 [11:41:24] <jim> I know about that one, and thanks
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966 [11:41:53] <dutchfish> jim, well, if you intend to package it ITP and be polite, you get great help from them. Just be patient.
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968 [11:42:53] <jim> I wish that were the case, the guy I talked to (so many years ago) was -so- against the idea, he wouldnm't help me with it
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973 [11:43:37] <dutchfish> jim, well, what can i say, sorry for that. You find morrons in all disciplines.
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975 [11:44:04] <dutchfish> jim, anyway, good luck!
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978 [11:44:47] <jim> people in the openacs community said it was the right way to do it, but they were also impatient to get it in
979 [11:45:47] <jim> like I say though I'll probably dig it up and see what it does
980 [11:45:49] <glaucom> hello all..how do I send a message from a user in github? I really enjoyed a project, I would like to give positive feedback.
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982 [11:46:26] <dutchfish> jim, to my humble opinion, GNU/Linux is all about keeping the choices open. Maybe we should being kind, more often add to that too.
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984 [11:47:52] <RoyK> dutchfish: better install Windoze and hope for the best :D
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986 [11:49:48] <glaucom> I'm amazed at this project. Amazing. It should come by default on all linux distributions. All perfect functionalities.
987 [11:49:58] <glaucom> replaced-url
988 [11:50:11] <glaucom> I would like to share with you.
989 [11:52:20] <themill> ,i flameshot --release sid
990 [11:52:21] <judd> Package flameshot (graphics, optional) in sid/amd64: Powerful yet simple-to-use screenshot software. Version: 0.6.0-7; Size: 259.6k; Installed: 1067k; Homepage: replaced-url
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1054 [12:29:15] <ikarosuusi> hey-uhh.. python-pil is pillow fork, python3-pil doesn't mention it's a pillow fork but I see no rational reason to package different versions under same name so which is it?
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1056 [12:29:52] <ikarosuusi> the sane, logical thing would be it being the pillow fork, and that not just being mentioned in e.g, apt-cache search
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1192 [13:38:31] <cms> Hello World!!
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1218 [13:58:42] <ham5urg> Is it possible to mount a readonly-nbd blockdevice to many clients at same time?
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1222 [14:01:57] <ham5urg> I would need the client to mount a readonly-nbd wich holds the root dir. via overlayFS. The initrd would be built with help of Dracut.
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1224 [14:03:15] <jelly> ham5urg: I don't know if nbd supports more than one client at a time, but you could set up separate nbd devices with same backend if it does not
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1227 [14:05:12] <ham5urg> jelly: I would need around 500 devices and make every client aware of each own device.
1228 [14:05:53] <jelly> in the old times people usually used nfs / not nbd /
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1230 [14:06:27] <ham5urg> yes, I tried it with NFS and it works for stable.
1231 [14:06:47] <ham5urg> But not for old-stable which I still rely on
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1263 [14:24:49] <litb> hello all
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1266 [14:25:12] <litb> my system has both gcc-8 and gcc-7. I tried to uninstall gcc-7, but kernel headers depend on it
1267 [14:25:25] <litb> is there anyway out? hope this question isn't specific to unstable
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1274 [14:28:59] <jelly> litb: it's specific enough alright. What fails to work having both installed?
1275 [14:29:04] <jelly> !debian-next
1276 [14:29:04] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
1277 [14:29:28] <rant> litb: well you are in the wrong channel if you are running unstable.. and you shouldn't do this.. but if you must there is equivs.. but expect breakage
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1279 [14:30:14] <rant> to be clear, I highly advise against this and suggest you go to #debian-next and zoom WAY out on your issue and get back to what has you doing this in the first place
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1281 [14:31:06] <rant> though the kind of thinking that got you here is probably the same kinda thinkin that has you running unstable in the first place
1282 [14:31:58] <rant> my first inclination is to hammer things into place too.. but I resist the urge and avoid breaking Debian because I like having support :P
1283 [14:32:57] <litb> rant, i want to clear disk space
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1285 [14:33:09] <litb> rant, currently #debian-next is registered-only :(
1286 [14:33:16] <rant> litb: hah, if you're removing gcc to clear disk space you have bigger issues
1287 [14:33:25] <litb> tho the issue of clearing disk space seem to be universal
1288 [14:33:26] <rant> litb: its on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net)
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1290 [14:33:50] <litb> rant, i tried over there. they seem to require registration atm
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1292 [14:34:10] <rant> you should clear space by reformatting and installing stable then asking for help doing whatever things you are unable to figure out
1293 [14:34:29] <litb> rant, i installed this system a few months ago and it already uses 78G, leaving only 33G on my disk
1294 [14:34:46] <rant> litb: yes, well OFTC's registration is simpler than freenode as it doesnt even require email verification, its a quick /msg nickserv help register
1295 [14:35:01] <litb> thanks i will check it out
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1297 [14:35:08] <rant> litb: yeah, the system isnt using 78G, you are
1298 [14:35:19] <rant> 7.8G maybe
1299 [14:35:47] <litb> i suspect it's got something to do with this yocto thing
1300 [14:36:03] <rant> they have graphical disk space usage analyzers you know
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1302 [14:36:18] <rant> can't think of one off the top of my head.. but we have a few
1303 [14:37:05] <rant> only kinds of packages that take up any significant space are data packages like the sound/graphics for games and even those are typically well under 500MB
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1305 [14:38:17] <rant> ,v gcc
1306 [14:38:18] <judd> Package: gcc on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:4.7.2-1; jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; buster: 4:8.2.0-2; sid: 4:8.2.0-2
1307 [14:38:52] <rant> ,depends linux-headers-amd64 sid
1308 [14:38:53] <judd> Package linux-headers-amd64 in sid/amd64 -- depends: linux-headers-4.18.0-2-amd64.
1309 [14:39:10] <rant> ,depends linux-headers-4.18.0-2-amd64 sid
1310 [14:39:11] <judd> Package linux-headers-4.18.0-2-amd64 in sid/amd64 -- depends: linux-headers-4.18.0-2-common (= 4.18.10-2), linux-kbuild-4.18 (>= 4.18.10-2), linux-compiler-gcc-7-x86 (>= 4.14.17-1~).
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1313 [14:40:30] <rant> litb: are you using this machine for development? source code can get pretty large
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1315 [14:41:11] <rant> ,i baobab
1316 [14:41:12] <judd> Package baobab (gnome, optional) in stretch/amd64: GNOME disk usage analyzer. Version: 3.22.1-1; Size: 371.5k; Installed: 1719k; Homepage: replaced-url
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1318 [14:41:23] <rant> litb: there is one of the disk space analyzers ^
1319 [14:41:48] <rant> shows a circular graph where you can visualize what is taking up large chunks of space
1320 [14:42:12] <rant> ,i gcc
1321 [14:42:14] <judd> Package gcc (devel, optional) in stretch/amd64: GNU C compiler. Version: 4:6.3.0-4; Size: 5.1k; Installed: 43k
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1324 [14:42:26] <rant> as you can see gcc is only 43k so its not the culprait :P
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1326 [14:42:50] <rant> breaking your system to free up 43k is like biting off your nose to spite your face
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1329 [14:44:33] <litb> rant, it's a private desktop machine for experiments
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1332 [14:45:05] <litb> lol I guess you are right
1333 [14:45:10] <rant> you're way down a rabbit hole of bad decisions and really unless you have no means of backup and a really good reason not to, I highly suggest starting over.. with STABLE and asking for help with things you want to do
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1336 [14:45:52] <rant> because there are usually better ways than any of us would come up with alone, to do things that may seem impossible with stable
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1339 [14:47:04] <rant> I personally been having an obscure issue with chromium lately and nothing would please me more than to go hacking a fix I know will break upgrades and I'll probably forget about and will cause future problems difficult to run down.. but I been resisting trying to figure out what the real problem is
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1341 [14:47:58] <litb> i don't like stable for desktop machines. too old software
1342 [14:48:10] <n4dir> litb: what it the actual problem? You want to figure out which takes so much space (or: how you can free space?).
1343 [14:48:19] <ompaul> litb: working computers don't interest you?
1344 [14:48:20] <litb> and it doesn't allow doing fun experiment with uptodate technology
1345 [14:48:33] <litb> ompaul, thinks work with unstable
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1347 [14:48:41] <rant> litb: I experiement to.. in virtual machines and chroots
1348 [14:48:51] <ompaul> rant: define the obscure issue
1349 [14:49:10] <litb> rant, dangerous experiments are done in qemu
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1351 [14:50:24] <rant> ompaul: well I had been using MATE since I installed this machine, and all was fine.. recently I installed XFCE and now under XFCE chromium bitches about the keyring not being unlocked. So I modfied lightdm to use pam hooks to unlock the keyring, made sure XFCE was starting all the same gnome-keyring-daemon processes, deleted the login keyring and recreated it with same password as the user, and this works..
1352 [14:50:30] <rant> once.. then if I reboot it starts doing it again, the keyring isnt unlocking
1353 [14:50:40] <rant> ompaul: what makes it more obscure is that it still works in MATE and it also works on XFCE with a new user
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1356 [14:51:37] <rant> so yeah.. I have nfc whats going on but its pissin me off cause it pops up 4-8 dialogs everytime chromium starts, and chromium obviously isnt even using the damn thing cause deleting it had no effect on my stored passwords
1357 [14:52:27] <rant> I'm beyond tempted to just move /usr/bin/chromium and replace it with a script to run it using --password-store=basic
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1359 [14:53:47] <rant> I also use fprintd for login with lightdm, so idk if that has anything to do with it or not either
1360 [14:53:58] <rant> the new user I'd tested it with I logged in using a password
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1363 [14:54:43] <ompaul> rant: when you modified the config - maybe you fixed it across the dms
1364 [14:55:02] <rant> I only have one DM
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1366 [14:58:32] <rant> the config I modified was /etc/pam.d/lightdm to include the "auth optional pam_gnome_keyring.so" and "session optional pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start"
1367 [15:00:38] <rant> I've not even been able to narrow down where the problem lies.. while chromium is fubar, its not the problem.. it shouldnt even be bitching about the keyring because its fairly obvious its not even using it.. deleting it with seahorse did not delete my passwords in chromium so.. its bitching for no reason.. the keyring is in fact not being unlocked.. but if this is gnome-keyring, XFCE, fprintd, pam, lightdm,
1368 [15:00:44] <rant> previous MATE configs, or a combination of all them, idk
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1370 [15:01:32] * rant tries again with a new user and registering a fingerprint with fprintd to see if he can recreate the issue
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1381 [15:09:38] <rant> yeah idk.. on first login with a fingerprint with a new user, I got the keyring dialogs saying it was not unlocked.. I logged out, used the password, it started without the dialogs, then logged in again with fingerprint and didnt get them either.. so I went to tty1, stopped lightdm, killall gnome-keyring-daemon, restarted lightdm, and now with several logins with either password OR fingerprint it still shows
1382 [15:09:44] <rant> the dialogs saying its not unlocked
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1384 [15:09:58] <rant> and this new user doesnt even show a login keyring in seahorse so idk wth is going on
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1386 [15:11:09] <rant> I never once had an issue in MATE in several months using it with fingerprint only, this all only started happening when I switched to XFCE
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1388 [15:12:01] <rant> which logic tells us, the issue cant be lightdm, gnome-keyring-daemon, fprintd, pam, or anything like that because nothing had changed there
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1391 [15:12:47] <rant> I made sure the xfce session starts all the same gnome-keyring-daemon processes that started with MATE session
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1398 [15:15:58] <rant> this is just pissin me off cause if this were even a real issue, I should not be able to go to my settings in chromium and see all my passwords when the $*!(%&!( keyring is not unlocked!
1399 [15:16:17] <rant> why would it even be annoying me about this damn keyring when its not even using it
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1416 [15:26:46] <rant> ah.. apparently its backing up to the local login keyring but apparently is also storing the passwords elsewhere
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1418 [15:28:22] * rant goes back to just having no password on the keyring
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1451 [15:51:42] <ham5urg> I played around with rmadison. But I have one question: How can I see all past packages ever available in one specific suite?
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1454 [15:51:59] <Peyam> is gnu-mcu-eclipse-openocd in debian repo?
1455 [15:53:46] <Peyam> I only find it for centos
1456 [15:53:51] <Peyam> replaced-url
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1468 [15:58:19] <annadane> ...what? why am i suddenly getting 58 packages upgradable, i thought that didn't happen just because of a point release
1469 [15:58:25] <annadane> apparently i'm wrong
1470 [15:58:32] <annadane> thought it was only cumulative
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1476 [15:59:30] <annadane> well. TIL
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1489 [16:05:15] <EdePopede> lucky me then, only 49. besides 68 fx-esr kept back. but *everything*: kernel, X, and even grub and... base-files Oo
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1515 [16:26:01] <EdePopede> source repos are all on salsa now? and when have the packages all been migrated to it?
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1553 [16:49:14] <Peyam> hi
1554 [16:49:19] <ukine> gm
1555 [16:49:36] <Peyam> I download eclipse from thei website and then I installed open jre and openjdk-8-jdk
1556 [16:49:44] <Peyam> and now eclipse says I need to install java jre
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1559 [16:50:05] <ukine> those might conflict
1560 [16:50:13] <ukine> idk too early
1561 [16:50:28] <ukine> that was a long time ago :]
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1568 [16:53:42] <shynoob> Installed wine32 .. how do I run a windows setup?
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1571 [16:56:02] <shynoob> nvm
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1596 [17:07:31] <Peyam> how can I find the location of arm-none-eabi in debian?
1597 [17:07:38] <Peyam> I just installed it but can not find the location
1598 [17:07:58] <rant> dpkg -L package
1599 [17:07:59] <dpkg> No packages found matching package
1600 [17:08:16] <Peyam> I tried whereis arm-none-eabi
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1612 [17:11:53] <amprxc_> hello, i have a question : i have an odroid HC2 which boots with a micro sd card. i found how to make it work with armbian, but i would like to use a very clean debian distro. How can i do that ? I know i can use that (replaced-url
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1646 [17:32:27] <fassl> amprxc_, did you try this? it is for HC1 but might also work for yours replaced-url
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1681 [17:55:36] <rant> near as I can tell the HC1 & HC2 are the same exact thing, just a different case.. the HC2 has a larger case to accomodate a 3.5" drive
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1729 [18:15:05] <N3X15> Got the rsync issue fixed, apparently the Windows 10 SSH implementation is broken.
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1735 [18:16:54] <jhutchins> partclone needs to be run from a filesystem other than the one you're cloning, right?
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1749 [18:21:06] <jhutchins> ,why is nagios not in stretch
1750 [18:21:07] <judd> No package named 'is' was found in stretch/amd64.
1751 [18:21:22] <jhutchins> ,why nagios not in stretch
1752 [18:21:23] <judd> No package named 'nagios' was found in stretch/amd64.
1753 [18:21:38] <jhutchins> !why is nagios not in stretch
1754 [18:21:38] <dpkg> jhutchins: I think you lost me on that one
1755 [18:21:50] <jhutchins> I can never get that syntax right.
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1761 [18:24:12] <babilen> It's not for stretch/stable, but for testing
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1763 [18:25:15] <jhutchins> babilen: What's the syntax for the why command? I'm glad it's coming back. I really hate icinga.
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1767 [18:26:10] <babilen> I wasn't talking about nagios, but about the "why is $foo not in testing" command
1768 [18:26:50] <babilen> That command lists reasons why a package is not transitioning from unstable to testing
1769 [18:27:08] <jhutchins> Ah, so if it's not in stable it's not going to work. Oh well.
1770 [18:27:12] <babilen> In terms of nagios .. yeah, you want Icinga / Icinga 2
1771 [18:27:23] <jhutchins> No, I really really don't.
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1773 [18:27:39] <babilen> For stable judd's "rm" command would be more useful to find reasons why the package has been removed
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1776 [18:28:35] <babilen> Might also want to look into check_mk and prometheus .. but for nrpe checks its Icinga. There's also nagios4, but I haven't played with it
1777 [18:28:40] <babilen> judd: v nagios4
1778 [18:28:41] <judd> Package: nagios4 on amd64 -- buster: 4.3.4-2; sid: 4.3.4-2
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1781 [18:29:07] <jhutchins> I did icinga and roundcube at the same time, and I don't remember which flaws were specific to icinga, but basically it was unusable for me.
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1783 [18:29:42] <jhutchins> Yeah, checkmk might be the solution I need, I've used it but not configured it.
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1804 [18:43:27] <jhutchins> Overkill for three systems, but it's that or build from source.
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1808 [18:47:16] <jhutchins> Interesting. Bootable clonzilla USB repors as "Hidden HPFS/NTFS" in fdisk.
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1826 [18:57:08] <jhutchins> !jessie->stretch
1827 [18:57:20] <jhutchins> dpkg: jessie->stretch
1828 [18:57:20] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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1861 [19:16:29] <rk[ghost]> suggestions for a "lightweight" web-browser?
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1865 [19:21:23] <crimson_king> rk[ghost]: Epiphany (GNOME), Falkon (Qt)
1866 [19:21:41] <crimson_king> rk[ghost]: qutebrowser (tiling WM)
1867 [19:21:50] <n4dir> more lightweight would be netsurf or dillo, but they do only that much.
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1872 [19:24:57] <rk[ghost]> it needs to support javascript because of the jerks that write the web;)
1873 [19:25:09] <rk[ghost]> sorry to namecall, i am irritated.
1874 [19:27:18] <n4dir> when i need script i use falkon, mentioned by crimson_king. Sometimes midori too (but i think it doesn't get developped anymore, or something like that)
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1910 [19:43:07] <rk[ghost]> are any of those in the debian repos? i couldn't find midori earlier, went to compile myself and got other issues..
1911 [19:43:41] <rk[ghost]> falkon doesn't seem to be in there iether
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1913 [19:44:02] <n4dir> rk[ghost]: try qupzilla (which somehow seems to be falkon)
1914 [19:44:30] <rk[ghost]> roger, thanks n4dir !
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2001 [20:29:11] <posix> yo
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2003 [20:29:45] <posix> i own a d-linok 131 doesnt doesnt automatically detected
2004 [20:30:03] <posix> -o
2005 [20:30:09] <hassoon> -p
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2007 [20:30:39] <posix> no9 i was just saying -o cause i typed d-link worng
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2019 [20:35:56] <rk[ghost]> n4dir: qupzilla seems to be working great thanks. (now if only it supported Pentadactyl...:P)
2020 [20:36:38] <n4dir> rk[ghost]: does a nice job here too, though as i got used to the speed of netsurf ... (well: obviously it only works for a part of the web).
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2026 [20:39:35] <rk[ghost]> where does netsurf fail?
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2035 [20:44:24] <n4dir> i can't answer that. Some sites (well: that is saying nothing :-) ). In such cases i don't worry much, but start qupzilla/falkon.
2036 [20:44:50] <n4dir> notabug and github for sure.
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2043 [20:50:41] <htb> Hi, I am on debian testing and I updated my system yesterday. Today I tried to install oracle virtualbox and failed with the message "Package libcurl3 is not installed.". I think libcurl4 replaced libcurl3 and I don't see libcurl3 in apt anymore (I see libcurl3-{nss,gnutls} but installing them does not seem to help). Could anyone help me figure out my options? Thanks
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2055 [20:55:46] <aloo_shu> could I get something confirmed that I just picked up on a musician channel?
2056 [20:56:26] <aloo_shu> namely, that rt kernel got merged into main kernel
2057 [20:57:08] <aloo_shu> and you can just give rt perms to usets/groups on the stock kernel?
2058 [20:57:27] <aloo_shu> *users
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2089 [21:18:21] <danielboston26> how do i edit my path?
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2091 [21:20:15] <n4dir> danielboston26: if you look at the file ~/.profile, it has an example (it adds ~/bin)
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2100 [21:24:14] <danielboston26> my question is where do i add that?
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2102 [21:24:27] <danielboston26> bashrc profile?
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2104 [21:24:58] <danielboston26> n4dir
2105 [21:25:15] <rany> danielboston26: you can use bashrc
2106 [21:25:25] <n4dir> i would say also in .profile. but i am really not too sure.
2107 [21:25:59] <rany> danielboston26: if you want it systemwide use /etc/environment
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2113 [21:29:36] <danielboston26> so PATH= ~/bin/racket?
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2115 [21:31:29] <danielboston26> ?
2116 [21:31:41] <rany> danielboston26: PATH="$HOME/bin/racket:$PATH"
2117 [21:31:49] <rany> if in bashrc
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2119 [21:32:45] <n4dir> what is racket?
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2123 [21:34:28] <n4dir> to put it different: if it is a file, it should be run-able already. If it is a directory, i don't think ~/bin is the right place (rather opt).
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2125 [21:37:27] <danielboston26> racket is a form of lisp
2126 [21:38:12] <ryouma> several forms apparently :/
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2133 [21:41:46] <d3c0> !hi
2134 [21:41:46] <dpkg> hello, d3c0
2135 [21:41:54] <danielboston26> rany, PATH=$HOME/racket/bin:$PATH didnt work
2136 [21:42:08] <d3c0> How I could config the "no_proxy" _?
2137 [21:42:10] <d3c0> ?
2138 [21:42:16] <rany> danielboston26: did you put quotes?
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2141 [21:43:55] <danielboston26> no
2142 [21:44:49] <rany> danielboston26: also, you to run source afterwards
2143 [21:44:57] <danielboston26> huh?
2144 [21:45:01] <rany> or restart the shell
2145 [21:45:09] <n4dir> source .bashrc;
2146 [21:45:19] <rany> ^
2147 [21:45:25] <danielboston26> what does run source mean
2148 [21:45:39] <danielboston26> <<<< is a noob
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2150 [21:46:39] <n4dir> it does voodoo, but what counts here: it reads and applies the file which is sources (in this case .bashrc). That also happens when you start a new shell. Don't take my word for it, it is a confusing subject.
2151 [21:46:52] <rany> danielboston26: source runs a script
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2153 [21:47:01] <rany> but lets it change it's variables
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2155 [21:48:06] <n4dir> .profile gets sourced once, when logging in, .bashrc each time a shell/terminal-emulator gets started. Hence i would have rather put PATH change in .profile (but, like said, i really am not too sure).
2156 [21:50:01] <jstolarek> I noticed a lot of security updates available in the repo this morning, but there is no annoucement of new update of Debian on debian.org, nor there are any other announcements of security updates. Are the updates in the repo legit?
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2160 [21:52:20] <n4dir> jstolarek: earlier someone, annadne, already spoke about a lot of updates, and he/she was wondering. That's all i read, i can't tell you more.
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2162 [21:52:58] <frikinz> From debian-security? replaced-url
2163 [21:53:27] <rany> jstolarek: also, it is difficult to break SecureApt unless you changed the defaults
2164 [21:53:50] <rany> or you have bad gpg keys
2165 [21:53:59] <d3c0> I found the file /etc/environmet, export no_proxy="" and thats all ?
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2175 [21:58:25] <rany> d3c0: /etc/environment is not a shell script
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2185 [22:00:59] <d3c0> <rany> ok, do you know how set the no_proxy config?
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2194 [22:04:11] <rany> d3c0: in /etc/environment just put the variable without export
2195 [22:04:36] <d3c0> :o
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2199 [22:05:25] <siodor> good evening, I've upgraded from jessie to stretch and now my user can't write to /tmp anymore, it became read-only, is this a known problem?
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2203 [22:05:43] <d3c0> <rany> no_proxy="localhost,127.0.0.1,....."
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2205 [22:06:35] <rany> d3c0: yep
2206 [22:06:49] <d3c0> no working :(
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2209 [22:08:06] <frikinz> "This variable should contain a comma-separated list of domain extensions proxy should not be used for. For instance, if the value of no_proxy is .mit.edu, proxy will not be used to retrieve documents from MIT."
2210 [22:08:16] <frikinz> Domain suffixes
2211 [22:08:40] <frikinz> Why would you put localhost in this variable?
2212 [22:09:20] <d3c0> because I saw in one example
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2214 [22:09:59] <d3c0> then, not localhost
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2216 [22:10:30] <Zta> I'm trying to install Debian to a SDD that I've attached to my laptop using a USB/SATA adapter and using QEMU. But I get a kernel crash when I run: sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -hdb /dev/sdb -boot d -cdrom ~/downloads/debian-9.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
2217 [22:10:45] <n4dir> frikinz: when i ran i2p i accessed it's router console via localhost:7678 (or such), so i had to set no proxy for localhost.
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2219 [22:10:55] <Zta> ..oh, never mind, more memory with -m 4G seems to help.
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2223 [22:11:30] <frikinz> n4dir: surprising for a software to go through a proxy for localhost ...
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2225 [22:12:10] <Zta> I love QEMU!
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2227 [22:12:19] <frikinz> It's great yes
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2231 [22:13:16] <frikinz> Zta: you couldn't boot to /dev/sdb ?
2232 [22:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1376
2233 [22:14:24] <frikinz> or you didn't have a usbkey or cd reader
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2236 [22:14:37] <n4dir> frikinz: looks as if it's the same for tor.
2237 [22:14:47] <Zta> I didn't take a screendump of the error because I fixed or worked around it. But I started the grapical installed, and I was immediately thrown into text mode with a crash.
2238 [22:15:04] <sgflt> hello everyone, i have a question regarding debian live: are the debian live images suitable for "sustained use"? i want to use a regular install 100% from usb stick, since i am not allowed to modify the machine i'll be using.
2239 [22:15:21] <frikinz> n4dir: torify you mean?
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2241 [22:15:35] <n4dir> yup.
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2243 [22:15:45] <Zta> Wasn't related to read rights since I was root. When I later started the installed in text mode, it complained about low memory. So I have QEMU more memory and it worked.
2244 [22:16:01] <n4dir> my only point was: to give an example where it was needed.
2245 [22:16:28] <frikinz> Going trhough tor to your local machine. Hummm I must be missing something :)
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2247 [22:16:50] <frikinz> Unless for testing a local hidden service or node
2248 [22:17:18] <n4dir> no_proxy for either localhost or 127.0.0.1
2249 [22:17:57] <n4dir> no clue why tor needs that, i2p as else you can't connect to the router-console of i2p.
2250 [22:17:59] <frikinz> Seems the case for tor correct. ok .. so I see
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2255 [22:21:01] <frikinz> jstolarek: replaced-url
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2257 [22:22:12] <Zta> There's a bug in the installer. I doesn't wrap lines: replaced-url
2258 [22:22:15] <d3c0> whats wrong with this no_proxy config ? replaced-url
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2262 [22:22:49] <Zta> I messed it up a bit by selecting the text in an attempt to fully read what it said.
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2266 [22:25:18] <frikinz> d3c0: I think its only domain suffixes
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2270 [22:25:31] <frikinz> .mit.edu,localhost
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2272 [22:26:07] <d3c0> <frikinz> let me fix
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2274 [22:26:14] <frikinz> try with no_proxy="google.com" first
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2278 [22:28:27] <d3c0> <frikinz> how restart this service? source /etc/environment ?
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2282 [22:29:29] <eugenmayer> hello, did something change in 9.4/9.5 with apt-keys? seems like installing a key now requires a tty console which fails with auto-provisioneer like chef/ansibe
2283 [22:29:48] <eugenmayer> e.g. running: apt-key adv --recv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80 9DC858229FC7DD38854AE2D88D81803C0EBFCD88
2284 [22:29:52] <eugenmayer> in a non tty will fail
2285 [22:30:10] <eugenmayer> gpg: cannot open '/dev/tty': No such device or address
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2291 [22:32:57] <frikinz> judd: recent apt
2292 [22:32:58] <judd> Package apt recent uploads: 0.9.7.7 2012-12-13, 0.9.7.6 2012-10-16, 0.9.7.5 2012-09-11, 0.9.7.4 2012-08-06, 0.9.7.3 2012-07-27, 0.9.7.2 2012-07-13, 0.9.7.1 2012-06-29, 0.9.7 2012-06-19, 0.9.6 2012-06-11, 0.9.5.1 2012-05-24.
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2294 [22:33:54] <frikinz> hum that's not updated
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2296 [22:34:14] <jolt> eugenmayer: If you use ansible, then you should probably use apt_key: module instead. Sorry for the non-answer.
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2300 [22:36:03] <frikinz> or apt-key --no-tty
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2310 [22:39:57] <eugenmayer> jolt: using chef and there i use the core to add a apt repo with a key, so we are talking stable core there
2311 [22:40:11] <frikinz> gpg --no-tty rather. so from apt-key you need adv
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2313 [22:40:59] <eugenmayer> well that would be a chef core issue then, but what changed in debian?
2314 [22:41:32] <eugenmayer> currently running my kitchen tests against different distros, tried my own vagrant 9.5 it failed, the official stretch64 9.5 builds also failed
2315 [22:41:50] <eugenmayer> trying ubuntu/trusty64 now to see if that is what chef tested against
2316 [22:42:32] <eugenmayer> and then trying 9.3 since that is the last working version. I am yet not sure what changed, something in chef or in debian, so i have to deduct
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2321 [22:45:55] <frikinz> eugenmayer: did you try no-tty as I mentionned?
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2325 [22:47:50] <eugenmayer> frikinz: i cannot do this, i cannot influence the apt-key call, its encapsulated through chef api
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2333 [22:53:08] <bleb> how easy is it to use debian with sysvinit or openrc? anyone notice a difference in stabiliy, for desktop use?
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2342 [22:56:46] <n4dir> bleb: i use sysv, which seems to work well. I tried runit, and ran in problems. I have heard openrc will give problems too. so sysv is comparatively easy to use.
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2346 [22:57:08] <n4dir> the default advise will probably be to stick to systemd though. I guess.
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2349 [22:57:37] <eugenmayer> ok frikinz now its confirmed, its a 9.5 thing or 9.4 - it works with 9.3
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2359 [23:01:13] <frikinz> you could test with gpgv 2.2.5-1 (2018-02-22) then
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2365 [23:02:12] <frikinz> gpg has been updated quite a few times since 9.3
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2367 [23:02:32] <frikinz> !recent gpgv
2368 [23:02:38] <frikinz> judd: recent gpgv
2369 [23:02:39] <judd> Package gpgv recent uploads: 2.0.19-2 2013-01-04, 2.0.19-1 2012-03-31, 2.0.18-2 2011-10-16, 2.0.18-1 2011-08-30, 2.0.17-2 2011-02-14, 2.0.17-1 2011-02-13, 2.0.14-2 2010-07-25, 2.0.14-1.1 2010-05-17, 2.0.14-1 2010-01-10, 2.0.13-1 2009-09-08.
2370 [23:02:44] <frikinz> :(
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2377 [23:04:19] <frikinz> Package gpgv recent uploads: 2.2.10-3 2018-10-08, 2.2.10-2 2018-09-30, 2.2.10-1 2018-08-30, 2.2.9-2 2018-08-24, 2.2.9-1 2018-07-22, 2.2.8-3 2018-06-21, 2.2.8-1 2018-06-08, 2.2.7-1 2018-05-23, 2.2.5-1 2018-02-22, 2.2.4-3 2018-02-09.
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2379 [23:04:36] <Emil> Hey
2380 [23:04:48] <Emil> So I'm trying to solve an issue
2381 [23:04:57] <Emil> sudo autocompletion does not work on a fresh install
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2383 [23:05:35] <Emil> autocompletion does work for a normal user but not when root or using sudo. It becomes extra strange since completion worked for a normal user even before attempting to just install bash completion
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2389 [23:07:40] <eugenmayer> frikinz: ok verified, its also broken for 9.4, so it started with 9.4
2390 [23:07:53] <mspe> maybe the autocompletion is activated for your user but neither for root nor system-wide
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2395 [23:10:07] <eugenmayer> frikinz: i noted it down here for now replaced-url
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2397 [23:10:29] <eugenmayer> expecting this to become a ansible/puppet/salt issue
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2403 [23:11:51] <frikinz> eugenmayer: I guess so also. Great for the bug report!
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2407 [23:14:14] <Zta> Quick question: I just installed Debian and not unexpected it already has an update. When I choose to install this, it immediately reboots. Then it starts the installation (of the new kernel). Is this normal in Debian? In Ubuntu updates are just rolled on the live system, even kernels.
2408 [23:14:22] <grobi> hello, Debians :)
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2413 [23:15:38] <grobi> after update my mocp crashes with
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2416 [23:16:18] <grobi> FATAL_ERROR: Can't receive value from the server!
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2419 [23:17:27] <grobi> odes someone here know about mocp and probably about this problem?
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2423 [23:19:07] <frikinz> Zta: it immediately reboots sounds strange. what did you use to update?
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2425 [23:20:35] <frikinz> Zta: you just hit that replaced-url
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2429 [23:22:09] <frikinz> No kernel update though
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2431 [23:23:08] <Zta> frikinz: The standard GUI software centre. It didn't install much more than the kernel; I think the netinstaller may have fetched the point release that updated those packages you listed.
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2433 [23:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1366
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2441 [23:27:28] <grobi> guys i guess i found a temporarily solution for my mocp problem. i needed to let mocp reread the /music/ directory by 'r'
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2443 [23:28:21] <grobi> but the question is if this will happen again after updating the system ...?
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2449 [23:32:07] <Zta> Why on Earth is sudo no installed by default?
2450 [23:32:13] <Zta> t
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2453 [23:33:34] <n4dir> because you made that choice during installation.
2454 [23:33:39] *** Parts: bnk (~bnk@replaced-ip ) ()
2455 [23:34:07] <Zta> I didn't unselect it; I chose default.
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2463 [23:37:17] <aloo_shu> from which we conclude?
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2465 [23:37:34] <Zta> sudo isn't installed by default.
2466 [23:37:38] <aloo_shu> debian's default is 'no sud'
2467 [23:37:38] <at0m> \o/
2468 [23:37:44] <aloo_shu> o
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2470 [23:38:07] *** Quits: sanches (~sanches@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2471 [23:38:08] <Zta> My original question still stands.
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2473 [23:38:30] <n4dir> you might just as well ask why other distributions add sudo per default. It is like it is.
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2475 [23:39:50] <aloo_shu> it's probably been discussed in the mailing lists and 10 other places
2476 [23:39:58] <at0m> Zta: debian, like ubuntu, does not restart automagically, not even on kernel update. the new kernel is installed next to the previous one(s), and the latest/highest version becomes default in grub
2477 [23:40:13] <aloo_shu> root account with pwd, and su, is safer
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2479 [23:41:05] <at0m> Zta: needrestart is a nice package that ties in with apt and lists reasons for reboot or can restart services if you choose to
2480 [23:41:11] <Zta> I think one of the main purposes with sudo is for user to run priviledged commands within a minimal scope, I mean once line of command as root, and then you're back at your old self again. This seems safer than su - and then accidentally leaving a root shell open. So one reason to have it installed by default would be to make a safer system.
2481 [23:42:24] <at0m> i don't use sudo. i think sudo is great on multi-user systems where different people get assigned different tasks and privileges, that require them to run a selection of apps with raised privileges.
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2483 [23:42:34] <n4dir> the manpage states it slightly different. I'd say the main purpose for sudo is to let non-root-users run a certain amount of commands. But to each his own.
2484 [23:42:37] <aloo_shu> bbut, iirc, you are being asked in install. Not whether you do or don't want sudo, but whether you want to omit making a root account, the fact that this will pull sudo is in the small print
2485 [23:42:48] <Zta> at0m: Ok. I was unaware of the reasons it listed then. I just noted it installed the kernel immediately after reboot, before most of the system was started. It looked ... weird.
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2489 [23:43:19] <at0m> i'm the only user on my system, so i guess it's ok if i know the root pass. this can be different on multi-user systems
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2491 [23:43:39] <HicksD> Too many install sudo by default in a way that lets you do just about anything but only require the users password. Like "sudo bash", "sudo rm -rf /" "sudo install script_coming_from_random_place_online"..
2492 [23:44:10] <HicksD> Rather than just as a surgical way to allow a very limited number of commands, perhaps even with specific args to be run by a specific user or group.
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2494 [23:44:21] <Zta> I still think it's easier to type my own password. And let root have no password so it cannot login.
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2496 [23:44:31] <at0m> then install sudo
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2499 [23:45:09] <HicksD> but, that's neither here or there, debian needed to either install by default or not. If you enter a root password during install I think you get no sudo, and if you don't setup root, I think you get sudo though? At least I think that's the way it was before?
2500 [23:45:09] <n4dir> flamewars su versus sudo are not en vogue anymore.
2501 [23:45:09] <Zta> at0m: I will. I was just wondering why it wasn't default. I remember it was years ago, but I could very well be wrong.
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2503 [23:45:36] <at0m> Zta: yea that may be correct. but no longer.
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2505 [23:46:26] <aloo_shu> at0m: 1) no one will stop you from installing sudo later, and 2) what root tasks would you want your non-privileged users to perform, that couldn't be done by groups & perms?
2506 [23:46:59] <HicksD> fwiw I installed sudo the other day so I can run a powersave or schedutil script that uses sudo to set the governer to one or the other and with NOPASSWD set so I don't need to su or sudo pass to switch.
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2508 [23:47:11] <HicksD> but outside of that i tend to do everything via su.
2509 [23:47:42] <at0m> HicksD: NOPASSWD, and sudoers limited to just these powersaving/schedutils ?
2510 [23:47:57] <Zta> Clever.
2511 [23:48:05] <HicksD> yes, limited to that one specific command with fixed args too
2512 [23:48:11] <HicksD> and just one user.
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2515 [23:50:06] <at0m> could also setuid - but that would all users run it as root? idk how window managers do it
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2519 [23:51:05] <HicksD> I'm not keen on setuid when there's any other option. Plus I don't think you could limit the args passed to the command to a specific set, which isn't a huge issue here, but with some utils could open up security issues.
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2523 [23:52:24] <Zta> HicksD: Would you mind showing your clever sudoers powersaving/schedutils configuration? In a pastebin?
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2526 [23:53:39] <aloo_shu> at0m: why would a wm need root? my understanding is, wm is calling X, which has root, and X is started before the display manager, which will de-escalate to normal user when graphical login is done
2527 [23:53:56] <HicksD> replaced-url
2528 [23:54:14] <ryouma> x is going to be normal user in some versions
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2533 [23:55:28] <HicksD> With the above if you try to run "sudo cpupower frequency-set -g ondemand" you'd get password prompt + denied. Whilst running with powersave or schedutil goes through without prompting.
2534 [23:55:30] <Krennic> why when my pc go to sleep and i tried to unlock it with the password i get incorrect password and i have to reboot my pc to restart my computer
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2537 [23:55:54] <aloo_shu> ryouma: fine if it still has the needed perms on the devices it needs, no?
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2539 [23:56:22] <at0m> Krennic: are you sure it's set to the right keyboard locale? numlock etc as you expect it to be?
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2541 [23:56:36] <Krennic> yes
2542 [23:57:04] <ryouma> presumably
2543 [23:57:13] <aloo_shu> eg X belonging to a group that can read kbd, write to framebuffer
2544 [23:57:30] <Krennic> but i like a week new to debian and since theme i do that and i have to reboot cause i cant unlocked with the password
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2546 [23:58:36] <aloo_shu> slightly higher attack surface for keyloggers maybe, but meh..
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