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• 69[00:48:51] <RandomGuyOnIrc> has anyone tried using unity as a desktop manager on Debian 9?
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• 71[00:49:30] * abrotman thought Ubuntu was abandoning Unity ?
• 72[00:49:38] <rant> nobody who can answer that.. because they'd have been fitted for a straight jacket and taken to a padded room in a nice hospital
• 73[00:49:47] <RandomGuyOnIrc> yes they were
• 74[00:50:01] <RandomGuyOnIrc> LoL
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• 76[00:50:16] <abrotman> were or are?
• 77[00:50:22] <abrotman> have?
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• 80[00:50:32] <RandomGuyOnIrc> either
• 81[00:50:32] <beepnboop-> i'm trying to install redshift and its installing redshift without gui
• 82[00:50:41] <annadane> beepnboop-, redshift-gtk is what you want
• 83[00:51:17] <beepnboop-> ty
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• 88[00:52:34] <beepnboop-> oh welp this one isn't good either, doesn't let me change temp
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• 93[00:54:13] <annadane> according to apt search redshift there's plasma-applet-redshift-control - "Adjusts the color temperature of your screen"
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• 95[00:55:27] <beepnboop-> maybe i can find a config folder though i don't know where to find one
• 96[00:56:13] <beepnboop-> tried .config .local
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• 98[00:59:15] <beepnboop-> bash: plasma-applet-redshift-control: command not found
• 99[00:59:21] <beepnboop-> after installing it
• 100[00:59:30] <beepnboop-> 1sec
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• 102[00:59:50] <annadane> i think it's /etc/redshift.conf or something
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• 104[01:00:23] <beepnboop-> plasma-applet-redshift-control is already the newest version (1.0.17-1).
• 105[01:00:24] <beepnboop-> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
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• 107[01:00:35] <annadane> but just check the arch wiki, there's a lot of info there, not all of it applicable to debian but it's mostly distro-agnostic
• 108[01:00:40] <Kelsar> beepnboop-: if it is a applet, you add it to your panel
• 109[01:00:44] <Kelsar> or desktop
• 110[01:00:50] <Kelsar> not run it as command
• 111[01:01:15] <beepnboop-> yeah but i cant find it in software search
• 112[01:01:29] <annadane> well i mean, you can specify coordinates via CLI or the redshift.conf
• 113[01:01:57] <Kelsar> beepnboop-: why would it be there? right click your panem and add app plasmoiid or something
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• 115[01:02:10] <beepnboop-> panem?
• 116[01:02:18] <Kelsar> panel
• 117[01:02:33] <Kelsar> control panel, or on desktop
• 118[01:03:17] <beepnboop-> just went 1 by 1 and its not there
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• 125[01:06:12] <wbr> Hi, I try to install the package 'libqt5multimediagsttools5', but I get the error 'Unable to locate package'. I tried to update and upgrade, but without improvement. Does anyone have a clue of what I can do?
• 126[01:06:47] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 127[01:07:07] <beepnboop-> where do i find redshift.conf annadane ?
• 128[01:07:27] <annadane> i don't have it on my machine so you probably have to make it
• 129[01:07:36] <annadane> though i think there's a .config/redshift
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• 133[01:07:50] <beepnboop-> there isn't
• 134[01:08:04] <annadane> check the arch wiki, redshift is silly in that there are multiple ways to set options
• 135[01:08:27] <beepnboop-> i don't see how that can help me, i use debian
• 136[01:08:30] <annadane> unless someone here knows how to permanently adjust options
• 137[01:08:42] <annadane> yes i'm aware, but it's pretty good cross-distro
• 138[01:08:48] <beepnboop-> is there something better for debian?
• 139[01:09:24] <annadane> or actually, read the man page. :P "man redshift"
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• 141[01:10:22] <annadane> sorry. i'm very stream of consciousness when i type, and the arch wiki is the first place *i* would look. i've gotta stop that and slow down when i type
• 142[01:10:52] <annadane> man page has a section for configuration file
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• 144[01:11:40] <joepublic> because most things in arch are assembled atom by atom, instead of "computer: do this", arch has a really, really good body of documentation that benefits the entire GNU/Linux and free software world.
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• 146[01:12:22] <annadane> i just have a terrible habit of "oh yeah just follow what i do" and my fingers are faster than my brain
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• 148[01:12:24] <AndyChow888> Yup, arch and gentoo have the best documentation.
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• 153[01:13:13] <beepnboop-> i know that feel annadane
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• 166[01:20:42] <beepnboop-> yeah having no luck so far
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• 173[01:30:30] <annadane> the thing with arch wiki is you kind of have to skim it if you're not on arch lol
• 174[01:30:38] <annadane> you obviously can't apply everything arch to another distro
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• 176[01:30:46] <annadane> skim it and selectively pick out what you need
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• 183[01:32:47] <beepnboop-> ffs redshift on manjaro came in with settings on top of it
• 184[01:34:30] <joepublic> I think you can even get that, gratis, at manjaro.org
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• 186[01:35:35] <beepnboop-> fuck manjaro
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• 188[01:35:49] <joepublic> Never tried it myself.
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• 193[01:40:37] <joepublic> something I wonder about is that if I ever get around to balancing the colors visually among my three monitors with xrandr --gamma red:green:blue per-monitor, what affect would redshift then have.
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• 224[02:05:31] <hanasaki> what needs to be installed and what is the setup command for a gnome screensaver with monitor poweroff (after a time) and screen lock?
• 225[02:06:21] <AndyChow888> hanasaki, I'm pretty sure all that is available in the power settings.
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• 230[02:12:53] <hanasaki> seems to have "blank" stuff but nothing like the old xscreensaver list of saver types. And... although set to blank after 2 mins... it never does....
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• 279[02:48:48] <rant> ,i gnome-screensaver
• 280[02:48:49] <judd> Package gnome-screensaver (gnome, optional) in stretch/amd64: GNOME screen saver and locker. Version: 3.6.1-7+b2; Size: 233.0k; Installed: 1347k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 281[02:49:31] <rant> hanasaki: don't beat yourself up over it..
• 282[02:49:55] <rant> you were one hyphen away from having answered your own question :P
• 283[02:50:00] <hanasaki> thanks
• 284[02:50:24] <rant> I find it hard to believe people even use screensavers
• 285[02:50:52] <rant> I only ever used one back when I had large old CRT monitors cause I had legitimate reason to be concerned for the screen I couldnt really afford to replace
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• 287[02:50:58] <annadane> "we don't. they're on by default"
• 288[02:51:17] *** Parts: wolfden (~wolfden@replaced-ip) ("undefined")
• 289[02:51:58] <rant> annadane: idk what your experience is.. but there were those afterdark or such things on mac/win back in the day with some really elaborately fancy screensavers that were all the rage at one time
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• 291[02:53:22] <hanasaki> rant: .. thanks... running it from command line does nothing.... nothing in settings applet for it either
• 292[02:53:35] <annadane> i remember mazes, those were fun
• 293[02:54:09] <hanasaki> rant: I need the lock part... and the user likes the animations
• 294[02:54:47] <rant> replaced-url
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• 297[02:58:48] <rant> hanasaki: someone that easily amuse you may be able to just take the computer away and give em one of those spinner things to play with and a helmet so they dont hurt themselves :P
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• 309[03:03:57] <hanasaki> rant: was going to give punch cards LOL
• 310[03:04:17] <rant> bubble wrap?
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• 312[03:05:44] <rant> a hole punch could be dangerous to these kinds of folk.. harder to hurt yourself with bubble wrap
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• 361[03:54:42] <piercedwater> evening
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• 390[04:27:09] <KNERD> rant: He can still use Office ine Debian ., or does he do it
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• 392[04:29:57] <rant> KNERD: yes, I set it up for him
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• 449[05:15:32] <babyflakes> Two questions, for deb-triggers, would the enviroment the user is calling it from not leak into scripts being triggered (and affect them potentially)?
• 450[05:16:05] <babyflakes> Second, how can I have my own hooks to be executed after some event (in apt) like installation/deinstallation,poinst,preinst, etc
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• 466[05:30:39] <babyflakes> sorry for the interruption, did i miss any message?
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• 468[05:32:45] <babyflakes> I just want to execute something when a certain package is installed (first time or upgraded) though being able to use the distinction would be useful too.
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• 526[06:28:36] <nauticalnexus> Can you use openrc in Debian? It's in the repos but I can't get it working. I don't want to remove systemd, I'd just like to use openrc as an init system.
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• 553[06:58:02] <piercedwater> Getting ready to switch from Win10 to Debian + XFCE
• 554[06:58:05] <piercedwater> excited :D
• 555[06:58:15] <piercedwater> ran win10 for about 1 year
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• 558[06:58:41] <mi11k1> piercedwater, try mx
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• 560[06:59:28] <mi11k1> piercedwater, replaced-url
• 561[06:59:59] <piercedwater> looks nice
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• 571[07:07:53] <RoyK> y
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• 574[07:08:01] <RoyK> oops
• 575[07:08:25] <darxmurf> morning folks
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• 599[07:26:17] <rant> piercedwater: I'm sorry to hear that
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• 714[08:47:54] <jelly> !qotd0
• 715[08:47:54] <dpkg> <felix_187> abrotman: presuming everything worked correctly, how could i get my wireless working?
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• 720[08:52:06] <no_gravity> How would I change the date format OS wide so that applications display YYYY-MM-DD?
• 721[08:52:29] <radkos> does anyone knows how to use ruleset in omrelp
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• 723[08:52:56] <radkos> i read something about call operator but didn't find a complete definition of it
• 724[08:53:09] <radkos> this is about rsyslog
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• 730[08:55:42] <charliebrownau> no_gravity: Doesnt most of the world use METRIC and DATE:MONTH:YEAR
• 731[08:55:59] <no_gravity> charliebrownau: I don't know what the world uses. I prefer YYYY-MM-DD.
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• 733[08:56:34] <charliebrownau> no_gravity: who fucking uses that ? Outdated system from USA or something , sounds arse around
• 734[08:56:40] <charliebrownau> I guess if the user wants it on the OS , why not
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• 737[08:57:44] <rant> charliebrownau: most common in the US is MM-DD-YYY or MM/DD/YYYY
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• 739[08:58:15] <no_gravity> My question has nothing to do with what is common.
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• 742[08:58:39] <charliebrownau> no_gravity: Do you turn your keyboard upside down and type that way aswell out of interest ?
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• 744[08:58:57] <rant> no_gravity: you can't really change something like date strings systemwide because afaik there is no standard in place all apps use.. many or most of them do their own string formatting
• 745[08:59:26] <no_gravity> rant: Changing it so that Thunderbird displays YYYY-MM-DD would be a step forward.
• 746[08:59:43] <rudi_s> no_gravity: Locale should do it, if the programs respect it.
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• 748[09:00:07] <rant> charliebrownau: I fully understand your frustration but this _is_ a support channel and you _are_ being highly antagonistic to support right now.. I highly advise you to take a breather and perhaps try our social channel #debian-offtopic to vent steam
• 749[09:00:43] <charliebrownau> or you could have a sense of humor
• 750[09:01:49] <no_gravity> From what I see around the net, the solution is to put a custom locale into /usr/share/i18n/locales/ and then refer to it in /etc/environment.
• 751[09:01:58] <rant> oh I have a sense of humor.. hell I'm the current founder on the ##standup.. doesnt change the fact you're being antagonistic to a support issue in a support channel
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• 753[09:02:30] <charliebrownau> I was actually being sarcastic
• 754[09:02:41] <rant> no_gravity: from what I see as rudi_s has suggested, locale would be a good start becuse a quick google suggests thunderbird respects LC variables
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• 758[09:03:31] <no_gravity> rant: Yes, that's why I am trying to do that.
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• 761[09:04:47] <charliebrownau> wtf is stand up btw ?
• 762[09:05:06] <charliebrownau> Is it on github or sourceforge ?
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• 764[09:05:22] <rant> charliebrownau: I'd be happy do discuss that or anything else in #debian-offtopic
• 765[09:06:10] <charliebrownau> Guess its not important then
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• 767[09:06:28] <rant> to the scope or topic of this channel, no not at all
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• 785[09:22:53] <rk4> heh, i set my bash history to be YY/MM/DD H:M:S today. i find the increasingly smaller divisions of time more elegant, and also whenever you have a list of strings it sorts chronologically
• 786[09:23:26] <rant> rk4: in that case just use swatch internet time :P
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• 788[09:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1348
• 789[09:24:06] <EdePopede> advantage over EPOCH is exactly what?
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• 792[09:24:27] <rant> he said he liked smaller .. doesnt get any smaller
• 793[09:25:06] <EdePopede> ok, 1000 beats per day. we also could switch to babylonian numbering which was superior.
• 794[09:25:39] <rk4> interesting, no timezones in swatch time
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• 796[09:25:57] <rant> your argument is moot.. I think its ridiculous, that was my point. its merely a way to use less chars to express time which was the whole point of my comment..
• 797[09:26:04] <rk4> EdePopede: it's human readable.
• 798[09:26:20] <rk4> EdePopede: or are you talking about swatch time :)
• 799[09:27:06] <EdePopede> sounds much like a decimalized version of UTC. with their HQ as fixpoint, which is no more than an advertising gag.
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• 803[09:28:50] <EdePopede> rk4: it is because we use units of 1000 everywhere else. it alings with every day. 1 day = 86400 seconds. not so good. but with a system based on 60 on the other hand... the problem is the offset, that's all
• 804[09:30:42] <EdePopede> anyway, is swatchtinme supported by some libs? (strftime and such). and what about starday (no, not star trek startime, i mean this real(?) world astronomy thing)?
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• 811[09:32:33] <maxwell6666> excuse me. Does anybody know how to use this config file: replaced-url
• 812[09:32:33] <maxwell6666> excuse me. Does anybody know how to use this config file: replaced-url
• 813[09:32:44] <maxwell6666> I want to compile a galliumOS kernel for braswell cpu, but I don't know how to use config file
• 814[09:33:17] <rk4> maxwell6666: we're not the people to ask.
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• 817[09:34:33] <maxwell6666> rk4: yeah, but the galliumOS developers doesn't answer me, sorry
• 818[09:34:36] <iflema> instruct how to build a deb...
• 819[09:34:55] <darxmurf> upgraded my machine this morning and can't play youtube video anymore :-/ I tried with 3 different browsers
• 820[09:35:19] <rant> !debian-next
• 821[09:35:19] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 824[09:38:01] <darxmurf> is there specific libs to install for videos playback ?
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• 826[09:39:49] <c|oneman> vlc?
• 827[09:40:00] <apollo13> darxmurf: which debian version are you on
• 828[09:41:10] <darxmurf> sid
• 829[09:41:17] <rant> darxmurf: replaced-url
• 830[09:41:25] <darxmurf> rant: looks okay
• 831[09:41:47] <apollo13> darxmurf: then you should go to #debian-next, sid is not really supported here
• 832[09:41:53] <rant> darxmurf: yes well I was just answering your question, but you still need to go to #debian-next on OFTC or stop using sid
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• 839[09:43:59] <rant> I can't help you cause I didnt make youtube, dont work for them, they're not open source or on topic here, when you first asked I checked.. no updates this morning for me.. and its HIGHLY unlikely any update in Stable would cause this anyhow.. so I can't reprodue your issue, therefore I knew you were not running stable.. and pointed you to the place to ask.. thats all I or anyone can really do
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• 850[09:47:03] <darxmurf> it looks like it's not a browser issue but something else around
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• 853[09:47:31] <darxmurf> can be nvidia
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• 856[09:50:19] <charliebrownau> maxwell6666: GalliumOS offer an ISO for Braswell. I run GalliumOS on my chromebook but debian on VPS/rack servers.... Check out GalliumOS site, you just have to dig
• 857[09:50:47] <rant> charliebrownau: please stop trolling
• 858[09:50:58] <charliebrownau> wtf IM NOT TROLLING
• 859[09:51:01] <charliebrownau> Im being serious
• 860[09:51:04] <charliebrownau> and offering help
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• 862[09:51:33] <rant> that was a troll, this is a Debian stable support channel and the only things you've said here today have been against the interest of supporting Debian
• 863[09:52:17] <charliebrownau> darxmurf: Firefox , Palemoon and Chromium work fine with HTML5, no extra HTML5 codecs needed for Debian or Linux from what Ive seen, make sure MME is turned ON in the browser for netflix and youtube to work
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• 874[09:58:30] <darxmurf> trying to join debian-next on oftc but looks like it's not working
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• 879[10:01:23] <EdePopede> darxmurf: can you connect? can you join? if not, what's the message? (maybe you have to register, don't remember)
• 880[10:01:47] <darxmurf> I can connect and join like #test
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• 882[10:02:14] <darxmurf> using t-bird to connect, will try with irssi
• 883[10:03:15] <EdePopede> as i said, maybe you have to register. /mode #debian-next should give you a hint
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• 887[10:05:09] <rant> darxmurf: the channel is +R requires registration and identification, though OFTC's registration doesnt require email verification like this network
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• 889[10:05:28] <rant> darxmurf: /msg nickserv help register
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• 896[10:09:48] <Kobaz> since when does xorg require systemd
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• 898[10:11:11] <rant> what would give you the idea it does?
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• 900[10:12:28] <Kobaz> because it doesn't start without it
• 901[10:12:32] <Kobaz> (testing/unstable)
• 902[10:12:35] <Kobaz> seems like a bug
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• 905[10:13:09] <rant> first of all you're being obtuse and vague, secondly testing/unstable isnt supported here
• 906[10:13:11] <Kobaz> [ 77.530] (EE) systemd-logind: failed to get session: The name org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files
• 907[10:13:28] <Kobaz> obtuse?
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• 909[10:13:42] <Kobaz> i'm just starting a conversation
• 910[10:13:59] <rant> this is not a conversational channel, its a support channel for debian stable
• 911[10:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1363
• 912[10:14:07] <Kobaz> right
• 913[10:14:08] <Kobaz> i'm aware
• 914[10:14:14] <Kobaz> been coming for for 15+ years
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• 916[10:14:55] <jelly> !debian-next
• 917[10:14:55] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 918[10:15:43] *** Joins: Elirips (~Elirips@replaced-ip)
• 919[10:15:49] <rant> me too thats how I learned the importance of running Stable and maintaining the purpose of this channel
• 920[10:16:34] <Kobaz> replaced-url
• 921[10:16:35] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 923[10:17:13] <Kobaz> hmm
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• 926[10:18:26] <Kobaz> running stable is important depending on what you need, sure
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• 928[10:19:46] <Kobaz> this should be more automatic... or at least make a note in the log as to why startup is failing
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• 941[10:28:12] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
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• 945[10:28:55] <ychaouche> Does it make sense to add a date on package information shown by apt-cache show <package_name> ? It could give indication on the "freshness" of the package.
• 946[10:29:27] <ychaouche> I currently have to copy/paste the version number and google it to know how recent the package is.
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• 948[10:29:48] <Kobaz> sure
• 949[10:29:57] <Kobaz> i'm a big fan of information... the more the merrier
• 950[10:30:42] *** Quits: neo4 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 951[10:30:45] <ychaouche> I'm not familiar with package management, can developers add arbitrary fields in there ?
• 952[10:31:00] *** Joins: neo4 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 953[10:31:20] <ychaouche> or rather package maintainers
• 954[10:31:20] <Kobaz> anything can be put anywhere... given enough time and effort
• 955[10:32:00] *** Quits: elkalamar (~elkalamar@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 956[10:32:05] <ychaouche> obviously
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• 959[10:34:51] <jelly> ychaouche: latest changelog entry will get you a rough date (for the packae source, not necessarily the .deb results)
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• 961[10:35:30] <jelly> and you can use tracker.debian.org/packagename instead of google
• 962[10:35:40] <ychaouche> (for the packae source, not necessarily the .deb results) <--- can't figure out what this means
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• 964[10:36:38] <ychaouche> oh good ! there's a news section :)
• 965[10:36:55] <ychaouche> so xchat isn't that dead it seems
• 966[10:36:56] <jelly> ychaouche: it means the maintainer writes the changelog entry at an earlier time than the .deb gets built
• 967[10:37:24] <ychaouche> is the changelog avaiable in the cache somewhere, before I download the package ?
• 968[10:37:34] <jelly> use hexchat instead, its upstream is a LOT more active
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• 975[10:41:18] <f0x> use Matrix instead :D
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• 977[10:41:41] <jelly> eww
• 978[10:42:21] <jelly> ychaouche: aptitude changelog packagename (or, again, click on it on the tracker.d.o page)
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• 980[10:42:34] <ychaouche> cool
• 981[10:42:39] <ychaouche> thanks for the aptitude trick
• 982[10:43:10] <jelly> (because aptitude is looking at an old place that often does not have the latest version's changelog available)
• 983[10:43:27] <ychaouche> ah
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• 999[10:54:36] <apollo13> ychaouche: there is a pretty big rant wrt hexchat vs xchat in debian somewhere
• 1000[10:55:01] <apollo13> replaced-url
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• 1007[11:03:08] <Katnip> hexchat on flatpak
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• 1011[11:05:05] <Katnip> replaced-url
• 1012[11:05:18] <handsome_feng> Hi, Does anyone know how to unpack and repack the initrd? cpio -idv < ../initrd.img only got a AuthenticAMD.bin; and 'dd if=initrd bs=xxxx | lz4 | cpio -tdv | head' didn't work too.
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• 1016[11:09:19] <saper> handsome_feng: "gzip -dc initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64 | cpio -itv" gives me some files here
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• 1018[11:10:29] <Fox> saper: 2.6.32 ? really ?
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• 1020[11:10:48] <saper> Fox: glorious Debian :)
• 1021[11:10:59] <handsome_feng> saper: Thanks, but it shows "gzip: initrd: not in gzip format"
• 1022[11:11:16] <saper> handsome_feng: I'd try "file initrd" to see what it might be
• 1023[11:11:41] <handsome_feng> saper: initrd: ASCII cpio archive (SVR4 with no CRC)
• 1024[11:12:14] <saper> and cpio -itv on it gives only one file? so be it
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• 1026[11:14:01] <jelly> current initramfs are two files, one for cpu firmware updates, one real
• 1027[11:14:16] <jelly> concatenated in some way
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• 1036[11:20:16] <handsome_feng> saper, jelly : Thanks!
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• 1064[11:32:59] <vStone> I'm getting errors against the fastly mirrors since 15 minutes or so. Err:5 replaced-url
• 1065[11:33:27] *** Quits: stackofcats (~stackofca@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1066[11:34:28] <apollo13> vStone: replaced-url
• 1067[11:34:57] <vStone> I know, but using apt gives me failures. it just stopped working in between testing
• 1068[11:34:59] <apollo13> vStone: which url do you get the 404 on?
• 1069[11:35:13] <vStone> is there a way to have apt be more verbose about it?
• 1070[11:35:19] <apollo13> wireshark ;)
• 1071[11:35:23] <apollo13> (no idea)
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• 1073[11:35:26] <bindi> did you run "apt update" or equivalent first?
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• 1081[11:40:11] <vStone> replaced-url
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• 1083[11:40:28] <vStone> this is while trying to run apt-get update bindi
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• 1086[11:41:56] <EdePopede> referring to what i wrote around 19 hours before about packages being or being not in default install: GNU info is missing, and the manpage of cpio is nothing but a stub. would be more important for most people than that whole japanese stuff or all language files for firefox. btw, does debian have packages for a docserver? (html versions of /usr/share/doc, man, info, ...)
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• 1097[11:44:29] <EdePopede> vStone: the url redirects (HTTP 302) me to replaced-url
• 1098[11:44:57] <vStone> so looks like i'm stuck on a bad server then
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• 1101[11:45:55] <EdePopede> did you also try curl/wget? seems the redirects on browser and cli aren't really related to each other
• 1102[11:46:07] <EdePopede> (does the browser cache the 302 somehow?)
• 1103[11:46:35] <vStone> wget works fine
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• 1106[11:47:25] <celyr> Hi Guys
• 1107[11:47:27] <celyr> E: The repository 'replaced-url
• 1108[11:47:35] <celyr> Am I the only one getting this ?
• 1109[11:47:39] <vStone> no
• 1110[11:47:45] <vStone> I was already asking about that
• 1111[11:47:47] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1112[11:47:51] <celyr> They screwed up the repo :D
• 1113[11:48:04] *** Quits: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 1114[11:48:14] <EdePopede> maybe replaced-url
• 1115[11:48:33] <vStone> thats in browser, not really what I need.
• 1116[11:48:51] <EdePopede> oh right, it was me who tried it in the browser :D
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• 1121[11:49:37] <celyr> They have for sure a problem with their cdn
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• 1127[11:50:20] <celyr> hmm
• 1128[11:50:20] <celyr> replaced-url
• 1129[11:50:22] <celyr> wired
• 1130[11:50:26] <celyr> I get it with the browser
• 1131[11:50:31] <celyr> wtf is going on
• 1132[11:50:38] <celyr> ah
• 1133[11:50:41] <celyr> it's fixed now.
• 1134[11:51:01] <celyr> Prolly they where just syncing
• 1135[11:51:05] <vStone> yey for caching
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• 1138[11:53:09] <EdePopede> i just got `Hit:3 replaced-url
• 1139[11:53:23] <vStone> apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -o Debug::Acquire::http=true update
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• 1143[11:54:45] <EdePopede> oh thx. should remember this
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• 1145[11:55:18] <jelly> sadly that does not seem to show _which_ cdn IP it's hitting
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• 1157[12:07:53] <ychaouche> apollo13, I don't get that kind of attitude. If you don't like it don't use it. Period.
• 1158[12:08:44] <ychaouche> There's a ton of bad software everywhere. If someone decides to make a package out of any one of them, it's his problem.
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• 1161[12:09:43] <ychaouche> Besides, nostalgia has its share.
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• 1164[12:10:25] <ychaouche> we often make decisions with our guts, not with our heads
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• 1182[12:20:40] <iodev_otg> need help, I have an eee pc 901 with an Intel GMA 950 and would like to watch HD videos on youtube using firefox + Debian LXDE
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• 1191[12:26:13] <EdePopede> iodev_otg: and the problem is? not enough support from CPU/GPU?
• 1192[12:27:23] <n4dir> looks like it was only info, not a request for help.
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• 1197[12:31:33] <EdePopede> starts with "need help", contains "what i want/expect", only "what i tried" and "what happened" is missing. still sounds like a request to me :)
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• 1199[12:32:58] <n4dir> to me too. but not to him, it seems.
• 1200[12:33:51] * EdePopede pokes iodev_otg awaiting a sign of life
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• 1204[12:35:37] <iodev_otg> n4dir: it blocks
• 1205[12:35:42] <iodev_otg> it runs bad
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• 1210[12:38:02] <EdePopede> iodev_otg: youtube-dl and mplayer (or mpv, this one has an option to use it directly) from the terminal. when i try to play 4k videos here it yells to me that my cpu is too slow. maybe you'd get the same with HD videos (iirc eeepc isn't meant for hardcore gamers). maybe also a question of hardware acceleration on the GPU, but here i am out of it.
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• 1213[12:38:48] <shtrb> Anyone have a clue how I can maximize FF under firejail + Xephyr ?
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• 1216[12:40:05] <shtrb> I start using "firejail --netfilter=/etc/firejail/nolocal.net --private=/home/username/work --x11 firefox -no-remote &" but there is no titlebar for FF
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• 1220[12:41:47] <shtrb> even if I click on F11 it does not allow resizing the window
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• 1241[12:52:04] <EdePopede> shtrb: can't find the note atm, i was testing Fx in Xephyr some time ago. don't you only miss a wm?
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• 1243[12:52:49] <shtrb|laptop> explain ?
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• 1246[12:53:37] <shtrb> I may have missed a message from you because I timed out few secs ago
• 1247[12:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1369
• 1248[12:54:29] <EdePopede> shtrb: X only gives you rectangles. no window decoration, nothing to drag&drop, no borders, no title bar, no hotkeys regarding such things. you need a DE (xfce, kde, ...) or at least a window manager (openbox, tw, the list is endless) to have such things
• 1249[12:54:29] <shtrb> If I click on F11 I do get the max back (it's an FF issue) but I can't resize it
• 1250[12:54:43] <shtrb> ahh ! got it
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• 1252[12:55:08] <EdePopede> the WM (i think usually) adds Alt-F11, no idea if it is any difference from what F11 does here.
• 1253[12:55:10] <shtrb> thanks I will google that, I thought firejail expected to isolate one app
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• 1256[12:55:49] <shtrb> (without the need to pull something more)
• 1257[12:56:05] <EdePopede> shtrb > replaced-url
• 1258[12:56:16] <EdePopede> found this one while looking around back then
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• 1260[12:57:08] <EdePopede> if you want a real classic, try twm ;)
• 1261[12:57:13] <shtrb> That's not my goal (having one extra X) but thanks
• 1262[12:57:23] <shtrb> I wished to use firejail with X11 isolation
• 1263[12:57:40] <EdePopede> oh. oh. wait. you want to have an extra X on tty8 or so?
• 1264[12:57:48] <shtrb> no
• 1265[12:57:50] <shtrb> less
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• 1267[12:58:25] <shtrb> I get a black window (xypher) of size 1280x1024 and FF inside it for 640x480 for instance
• 1268[12:58:34] <shtrb> I wish to have FF take the full 1280x1024 space
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• 1270[12:59:13] <EdePopede> that's what i got starting with the blogpost i linked to. Fx filling the whole space in Xephyr window by refault
• 1271[12:59:39] <shtrb> I have the reverse issue (fx not taking all the size)
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• 1278[13:02:15] <EdePopede> didn't test it, but can't you resize the window with Alt+RightMouseButton? (though i think it is a wm feature)
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• 1283[13:03:52] <shtrb> :-(
• 1284[13:03:55] <shtrb> no
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• 1287[13:04:41] <at0m> EdePopede: yea i've seen that Alt-RightMouse drag in most WM's
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• 1292[13:06:41] <EdePopede> > Xephyr -ac -screen 1280x960 -br -reset -terminate 2> /dev/null :3 & sleep 1; DISPLAY=:3.0 xfwm4 & sleep 1; DISPLAY=:3.0 /usr/local/lib/mozilla/firefox-62.0-de/firefox --no-remote &
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• 1294[13:07:34] <EdePopede> works as expected. F11 also. nice. but without the xfce part i only get the profile manager, select the profile and then: Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused // Error: cannot open display: :3.0
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• 1298[13:08:45] <shtrb> EdgePopede you are not using firejail there
• 1299[13:09:03] <EdePopede> is there a debtag role::windowmanager or so? don't remember which one i may have installed
• 1300[13:09:06] <shtrb> my issue is with using firejail's xephyr invokation
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• 1306[13:10:42] <EdePopede> shtrb: right. i only wanted to see how it works without de/wm. got no firejail installed. but i still suppose it is the missing wm in your case. as i said, X gives you rectangles, no more.
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• 1310[13:12:39] <apollo13> ychaouche: oh I just found it interesting to read, everyone is free to use whatever they want.
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• 1312[13:13:04] <apollo13> ychaouche: that said, if a program is not maintained and there is a more maintained version it might make some sense to put forces together behind that one
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• 1314[13:13:16] <shtrb> EdePopede, thanks , I guess so
• 1315[13:13:36] <EdePopede> shtrb: dito, looking after firejail now ;)
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• 1317[13:13:57] <shtrb> no need to install just because a user had issues with it :D
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• 1323[13:14:53] <shtrb> I only thought about having FF under firejail because I'm fed up of using an account per usage (work, private etc )
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• 1329[13:16:46] <n4dir> the web says you can add a cli argument to set the screen size for firejail (which i don't know ... ). tested xhost quickly, which started a program fullsize, but then got lost from where that comes.
• 1330[13:16:49] <EdePopede> nope, but isolating applications is one of the entres on my endless bucket list for debian
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• 1332[13:17:20] <n4dir> replaced-url
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• 1339[13:18:40] <EdePopede> shtrb: did this before the sysupgrade (actually reinstalled everything) with an extra user profile, starting fx from within screen ( sudo xterm -u $user > script > screen > firefox )
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• 1341[13:18:54] <shtrb> n4dir, I past that issue you can even resize manually via xrandr (but that is for the screen size not window insidie that "screen")
• 1342[13:19:01] <n4dir> in general what i do remember, it's quite a while ago, what EdePopede said is my experience too (i had to use a wm to resize applications if started from a chroot)
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• 1344[13:19:20] <n4dir> shtrb: damnit then. mainly: sorry.
• 1345[13:19:36] <eugenmayer> are there any known tools ( aptly ? ) which do: generate a list of deb packages ( custom mirror ) for all packages available in the current system into a folder so this can shipped to other instances of the same type which have no internet access, to run their upgrades on. Basically a custom offline mirror. Taking a full debian mirror is an issue of "size"
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• 1349[13:20:27] <EdePopede> shtrb: does that mean you can resize the xephyr window (and with it the desktop inside it) with xrandr? sounds like a nice feature
• 1350[13:20:27] <Brigo> eugenmayer, available or installed?
• 1351[13:20:29] <eugenmayer> We currently tooling arround dpkg list / apt cache polit / wget ( download pacakges ) and then run dpkg-scanpackages to create the package index. Its entirely self-crafted and it feels like "somebody sure has done this before"
• 1352[13:20:44] <eugenmayer> Brigo: sorry, i was unspecific, installed of course
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• 1355[13:21:11] <Brigo> !aptitude clone
• 1356[13:21:11] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
• 1357[13:21:28] <shtrb> EdePopede, yes
• 1358[13:21:55] <Brigo> eugenmayer, apt can do it too, but you will miss the automatic/manuall installed state
• 1359[13:22:01] <Brigo> manually*.
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• 1361[13:22:10] <Brigo> all will be considered manually installed.
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• 1363[13:22:40] <shtrb> firemon to get the displayname and then xrandr --display :blabla --mode 1280x1024
• 1364[13:23:07] <eugenmayer> Brigo: you are addressing the "how to install all packages on the remote machine" part, not the part "how to generate the flat mirror" part, righ
• 1365[13:23:09] <EdePopede> shtrb: nice thing. wanted to have this for mplayer anyway, should finally write a script and add some hotkeys. this resizing to arbitrary values with the mouse isn't the real thing
• 1366[13:23:46] <Brigo> eugenmayer, right, missed that part.
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• 1372[13:24:30] <eugenmayer> the latter part is the important one., the one you told me i do not need. It will be done using apt-get upgrade + unattended upgrades configuration
• 1373[13:24:35] <eugenmayer> so "auto upgrade"
• 1374[13:25:20] <n4dir> the firejail site states it could "even sandbox login sessions", so if i understand that right i would try it with a wm, as EdePopede has proposed.
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• 1376[13:25:31] <Brigo> eugenmayer, maybe apt-offline?
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• 1378[13:27:33] <Brigo> eugenmayer there is several apt tools available you just have to find the right one for your needs.
• 1379[13:27:42] <Nyoxi> I have a local DEB file. is there a way to check that all needed dependencies are already installed?
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• 1381[13:28:12] <Nyoxi> strangely I cannot find a way how to tell dpkg --install to roll-back in case of dependency issues. I don't want the package to stay half-configured
• 1382[13:28:29] <Brigo> Nyoxi, roll-back is not supported
• 1383[13:28:40] <Nyoxi> Brigo: so any safe way to check deps in advance?
• 1384[13:29:32] <Brigo> yes, just try to install it or install it in simulated mode, it will check for dependencies automatically and refuse installing if they are not met.
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• 1386[13:29:38] <shtrb> n4dir, just a warninng sddm (which is the default for plasma) does not support xdcmp for a very long time so firejail for login may not be usefull for you (if you use sddm )
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• 1388[13:30:12] <shtrb> *if you wish to do a full graphical login
• 1389[13:30:14] <Brigo> Nyoxi, gdebi does it nicer, it installs the dependencies if needed.
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• 1392[13:31:28] <Nyoxi> Brigo: I don't want to install anything except the DEB(s) I have localy. if that's not possible I don't want to do anything.
• 1393[13:31:45] <Nyoxi> Brigo: that rules out apt/gdebi/whatever...
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• 1395[13:32:30] <Nyoxi> Brigo: also --dry-run/--simulate does not check dependencies (terminates earlier)
• 1396[13:32:30] <Brigo> Nyoxi, dpkg -i DED will install that package or refuse to install it if more packages are needed.
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• 1398[13:32:34] <Brigo> DEB*
• 1399[13:32:48] <Nyoxi> Brigo: but it will unpack it and leave it in the system
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• 1401[13:32:54] <Nyoxi> I don't want that either
• 1402[13:33:18] <Brigo> you can run it as --simulate if you want to feel more confident
• 1403[13:33:30] <Brigo> Nyoxi, no, it won't
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• 1407[13:36:40] <eugenmayer> Brigo: apt-offline sounds great.. thank you!
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• 1416[13:42:43] <Nyoxi> Brigo: see here: replaced-url
• 1417[13:42:55] <Nyoxi> maybe I'm doing something wrong
• 1418[13:42:58] <n4dir> shtrb: i translated "login" with getting a window-manager (after actually login in, which could be done by different means).
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• 1422[13:43:44] <shtrb> I just wished to save you some frustration time (bad sddm , bad sddm !)
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• 1424[13:44:37] <n4dir> haha. nah, i will omit that pleasure.
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• 1428[13:46:16] <shtrb> :)
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• 1462[14:07:33] <Brigo> Nyoxi, sorry i had to go, and i have to go again. That links shows nothing at least to me.
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• 1465[14:10:14] <Nyoxi> bloody pastebin with all it's javascripts
• 1466[14:10:38] <shtrb> pw ?
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• 1468[14:10:44] <shtrb> and paste.debian.net
• 1469[14:11:16] <shtrb> *ptpb.pw
• 1470[14:11:39] <Nyoxi> shtrb: thanks
• 1471[14:11:40] <Nyoxi> replaced-url
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• 1538[14:51:40] <cronolio> hello, i'm from debian testing/sid and i have trobles like in this bug replaced-url
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• 1545[14:54:03] <cronolio> this /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/nvidia-drm-outputclass.conf does not help me. after each nvidia-drivers updates i do cd /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/; ln -s /usr/lib/nvidia/current/libglx.so libglx.so to get it working again
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• 1549[14:54:57] <avu> !debian-next
• 1550[14:54:57] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 1553[14:58:56] <shtrb> cronolio, you can file this as a bug and send a patch
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• 1562[15:05:16] <cronolio> oh looks like i will doing this relinking all my life :)
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• 1564[15:06:08] <shtrb> you can send the patch to a bug report and one pizza slice the maintainer might add it to the package
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• 1569[15:07:07] <cronolio> ALL my life :-D
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• 1571[15:07:26] <joepublic> Of course cards like for example the Radeon RX580 would not be likely to require such relinking.
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• 1621[15:42:26] <bumbar_> i've used dd to clone an old hard drive, unplugged it when it finished and now it seems i got a kernel panic when trying to boot from a new disk. i'm guessing there's some steps i forgot to do?
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• 1626[15:43:56] <joepublic> I have no knowledgeable help to offer in that area except the general note that clonezilla would probably know all the steps when doing such an operation, thus I would have probably used that.
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• 1633[15:49:38] <jken> Hello, I am having some issues getting snd_hdmi_lpe running on some newer hardware and was wondering if anyone could help me out. Running Debian stretch on an Intel Compute Stick (STK1A32SC). If I install pulseaudio (and presuably some alsa deps) from debian/sid, I have a working sink and sound on my system. If I backport pulseaudio (same version as sid) to stretch, I lose my working sink and only get a dummy sink in pulseaudio. I have tracked things
• 1634[15:49:39] <jken> down to this error in my pulse audio log, which looks like a potentially outdated alsa lib? (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HWSYNC failed (-32)
• 1635[15:49:48] *** Joins: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip)
• 1636[15:50:35] <greycat> You could start by confirming whether you're using sid ALSA packages, and try backporting some of those.
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• 1639[15:51:48] <jken> greycat, I think that has to be my next move. Any guess as to where I should start? I am unsure what package provides the snd_hdmi_lpe module. I thought it was just part of the kernel but I am running 4.18.0-bpo in both working and non working cases.
• 1640[15:52:07] <greycat> ,file snd_hdmi_lpe
• 1641[15:52:12] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
• 1642[15:53:08] <greycat> ,file snd_hdmi_lpe* --release sid
• 1643[15:53:13] <judd> No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file.
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• 1645[15:53:22] <greycat> Can you tell me the exact file name?
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• 1649[15:54:16] <greycat> ,file snd-hdmi-lpe.ko --release sid
• 1650[15:54:20] <judd> No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file.
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• 1653[15:54:33] <jken> greycat, I have not been able to get that in any logs. Seems the module that fails is called "alsa-sink-HdmiLpeAudio"
• 1654[15:54:43] <jken> but that may just be how pulse refers to it in the logs
• 1655[15:54:47] <greycat> Then why do you think such a module *exists*?
• 1656[15:54:56] <jken> Because its currently loaded.
• 1657[15:55:06] <greycat> Then what does modinfo say about it?
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• 1660[15:55:37] <greycat> It should give you the exact pathname.
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• 1662[15:56:03] <jken> Ill try to get that now
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• 1664[15:57:04] <jken> greycat, replaced-url
• 1665[15:57:09] <jken> looks like it is part of the kernel
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• 1667[15:57:24] <jken> same kernel it was working under when I installed pulseaudio directly from the sid repo
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• 1669[15:57:42] <jken> perhaps the issue is not the kernel module.. but an alsa lib that interacts with it
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• 1673[15:58:37] <greycat> Yes, /lib/modules/4.18.0-0.bpo.1-amd64/kernel/sound/x86/snd-hdmi-lpe-audio.ko is from a stretch-backports linux-image-* package.
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• 1675[15:59:04] <greycat> "because obviously snd- is not clear enough so we had to add -audio to the filename too."
• 1676[16:00:00] <jken> stretch and sid have different libasound2 versions... perhaps I should try that one first.
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• 1678[16:00:27] <jken> I don't know enough about alsa, but that lib seems like a core component
• 1679[16:00:55] <wonderworld> which would be the "most used" debian based rolling distribution?
• 1680[16:01:13] <joepublic> the answer, not a recommendation, is probably "sid"
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• 1686[16:01:56] <greycat> Debian does not have a rolling release.
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• 1688[16:02:35] <kirk781> But don't you wish it did?
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• 1690[16:02:42] <greycat> Nope.
• 1691[16:02:43] <wonderworld> i was wondering if there is a project that tries to accomplish something in the style of Arch, but based on Debian.
• 1692[16:02:55] <joepublic> but is there a rolling distribution somewhere, based upon debian, that can be said to be most used, is the question I guess.
• 1693[16:03:01] *** Joins: bvdk (~bvdkfreen@replaced-ip)
• 1694[16:03:12] <wonderworld> yes, sorry for my mediocre english :)
• 1695[16:03:15] <joepublic> "testing" is about as rolling as I like to get
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• 1697[16:03:31] <kirk781> Debian testing is basically stable for other distoes
• 1698[16:03:38] <joepublic> nothing wrong with your English wonderworld, I would not have known you are not a native speaker
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• 1701[16:04:49] <wonderworld> i have been using arch for 5 years now, but i still miss apt and the debian way of doing things
• 1702[16:04:52] <joepublic> I ran sid on a thinkpad I have to see what breaks, but after grub became unable to boot it once, I think I took it back to stable or testing (i forget which)
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• 1704[16:05:10] <joepublic> is pacman not apt-ish enough? there seems to be a lot of feature overlap.
• 1705[16:05:35] <wonderworld> yes it is, but i have been using debian and ubuntu for such a long time, that it still feels "unnatural" to me
• 1706[16:05:44] <greycat> The basics of a tool that installs "foo" and "everything that foo needs" is fairly common now.
• 1707[16:05:54] <kirk781> An arch user never forgets to reminds people in Debian channel that he uses Arch
• 1708[16:06:15] <wonderworld> but.... i *would* switch back to a debianish rolling release ;)'
• 1709[16:06:20] *** Quits: Spr1ng_ (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
• 1710[16:06:33] <greycat> *cough* ubuntu
• 1711[16:06:35] <joepublic> wonderworld, testing rolls. It just doesn't roll all that quickly.
• 1712[16:07:00] <wonderworld> joepublic: but wouldn't i need to switch to "new testing" with a new release?
• 1713[16:07:06] <wonderworld> does testing roll forever?
• 1714[16:07:19] <joepublic> wonderworld, if your sources.list specifies "testing", testing rolls forever.
• 1715[16:07:22] <greycat> testing slows down and speeds up but never fully stops
• 1716[16:07:36] <wonderworld> ok. i guess i should look into that.
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• 1720[16:08:56] <joepublic> arch has a tool to help you transition back to apt/dpkg: replaced-url
• 1721[16:09:22] <wonderworld> greycat: i really like Ubuntu until Shuttleworth tried to become Apple
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• 1723[16:10:03] *** Quits: Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1724[16:10:07] <joepublic> What I like about ubuntu is that it is similar to debian. However, I find that debian is more similar to debian.
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• 1726[16:12:39] <spackle259> joepublic: ubuntu is based on debian
• 1727[16:12:43] *** Joins: naxuroqa (~naxuroqa@replaced-ip)
• 1728[16:12:54] <joepublic> spackle259, wow, that explains a lot.
• 1729[16:12:56] <module000> spackle259: and their new network-config-generating-software is based on insanity
• 1730[16:13:22] <spackle259> module000: talking about ubuntu?
• 1731[16:13:35] <spackle259> module000: i like to stick to the original debian as my workstation
• 1732[16:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1410
• 1733[16:14:25] <module000> spackle259: yea, i prefer debian also for every intent and purpose. i'm just complaining about "netplan" in general
• 1734[16:14:27] <wonderworld> i love debian stable for servers. never ever let me down
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• 1736[16:15:02] <spackle259> wonderworld: oh yes!!! used ubuntu server for the longest time..when moved to debian server solution aaah...never felt that kind of peace before
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• 1738[16:15:11] <joepublic> I have a server running oldstable because its custom arm kernel doesn't have kernel namespaces which stable expects.
• 1739[16:15:20] <broesel> 71
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• 1743[16:15:52] <joepublic> or was it cgroups, actually I forget.
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• 1745[16:16:05] <greycat> sounds like you're actually running wheezy
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• 1747[16:16:53] <joepublic> the /etc/debian_version says "8.11"
• 1748[16:17:32] <greycat> If you managed to run jessie (presumably by forcing sysvinit/sysv-rc to remain), then I don't see why stretch can't be used.
• 1749[16:18:00] *** Quits: jon_x111111116 (~jon_x@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1750[16:18:24] <joepublic> ps ax |grep systemd
• 1751[16:18:42] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1752[16:18:43] <joepublic> indicates that it's using that init system
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• 1759[16:21:49] <joepublic> the kernel is 3.4 which seems too old. Here's an explanation for a similar problem for armbian (but I am running debian, not something else): replaced-url
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• 1762[16:22:35] <greycat> Ah, it's new enough to run systemd but not all of systemd, or something.
• 1763[16:23:50] <wonderworld> you guys like systemd?
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• 1766[16:24:37] <jelly> I like things that work, and systemd usually does
• 1767[16:24:42] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~nick@replaced-ip)
• 1768[16:24:48] <joepublic> Opinions vary on systemd, but it works well and dependably.
• 1769[16:25:05] <wonderworld> same can be said about sysv init
• 1770[16:25:09] *** Joins: lord_rob (~kubuntu@replaced-ip)
• 1771[16:25:09] <jelly> yes
• 1772[16:25:17] <Haohmaru> i only find out i like something when an equivalent thing doesn't work as good
• 1773[16:25:20] <joepublic> just like sysv init, yes
• 1774[16:25:26] <greycat> Anyone who says sysvinit works "well and dependably" has no idea what s/he is talking about.
• 1775[16:25:36] <jelly> wonderworld: sysvimits does very, very little however
• 1776[16:25:38] <wonderworld> it did for me
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• 1779[16:25:50] <Kohlrabi> "Debian with sysvinit worked well and dependably"
• 1780[16:25:59] <greycat> 99.99% of the time
• 1781[16:26:02] <Kohlrabi> ofc maintaining sysvinit scripts was a pita
• 1782[16:26:06] <jelly> if you made ugly freaky init scripts
• 1783[16:26:19] <Kohlrabi> Does not mean one should ditch it for a system which devours all system services, though
• 1784[16:26:37] <jelly> Kohlrabi: if it works better it absolutely does
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• 1787[16:26:45] <lord_rob> Hi! I'd like to transfer my debian package list from a machine to another, I've already done that but I don't remember how. Can anyone help me?
• 1788[16:26:49] *** Quits: clackety (~clackety@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1789[16:26:56] <Kohlrabi> jelly: Hard to know.
• 1790[16:27:03] <jelly> !aptitude clone
• 1791[16:27:03] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
• 1792[16:27:04] *** Quits: jamse (~jamse@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1793[16:27:04] <jelly> lord_rob: ^
• 1794[16:27:07] *** Joins: UnixMonky (~UnixMonky@replaced-ip)
• 1795[16:27:11] <greycat> !debian clone
• 1796[16:27:12] <dpkg> One method of cloning Debian installs is to take a current Debian machine that is set up with the packages you want and run the command "dpkg --get-selections > ~/selectionfile". Then, after the base install on other machines use that file and do: "dpkg --set-selections < ~/selectionfile && apt-get dselect-upgrade". Also ask me about <aptitude clone>, <reinstall>, <things to backup> <apt-clone>.
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• 1798[16:27:22] <lord_rob> thanks jelly
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• 1801[16:27:39] <joepublic> I'd say you don't want all the packages, just all the manually installed ones.
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• 1804[16:27:53] <jelly> Kohlrabi: it's not hard to know when you've written ugly hacky init scripts yourself
• 1805[16:27:56] <greycat> There's no reliable way to obtain that list.
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• 1809[16:28:38] <Kohlrabi> jelly: It's a tradeoff, you're also ditching compatibility to other *nixes
• 1810[16:28:39] <joepublic> the better you curate that list, the better autoremove works in the future
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• 1812[16:28:46] <greycat> jelly: I think most of the people who "support" sysvinit have never written an init.d script, and have *definitely* never written a systemd unit file, a daemontools run script, etc.
• 1813[16:29:04] *** Quits: xsisec (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1814[16:29:24] <jelly> Kohlrabi: okay, but I've gotten rid of other unixes more a decade ago
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• 1816[16:29:29] <Kohlrabi> greycat: I was asked to wait 2:30h for a "stop job" to complete though :)
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• 1818[16:29:43] <joepublic> I like older init systems, having learned them in the 80s and early 90s when my mind was pliable. Now that I am a crusty greybeard, I tend to prefer the newer magic-just-works stuff.
• 1819[16:29:46] <jelly> Kohlrabi: that's one of the silly things, yes
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• 1821[16:29:50] <Kohlrabi> jelly: Debian is a project with more than Linux, though, and multiple platforms
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• 1823[16:30:08] <jelly> Kohlrabi: why are you telling us things we know
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• 1825[16:31:01] <joepublic> jelly, I think the point he is trying to advance is that since different ports have their own port-specific adaptations, then different port should not have their own port-specific adaptations.
• 1826[16:31:05] <jelly> greycat: I've seen s6 mentioned in the last lwn.net article that pulled this again out of the attic
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• 1828[16:31:18] <wonderworld> what i dislike about systemd is not the syntex of files. i dislike that it tries to centralize too much stuff that used to be seperated before
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• 1830[16:32:10] <joepublic> wonderworld, you were talking about switching from arch to debian, but it is sounding like you might be happier with FreeBSD.
• 1831[16:32:12] <Kohlrabi> wonderworld: yep, the init part is fine
• 1832[16:32:40] <greycat> This is why I absolutely, utterly and completely refuse to use systemd-networkd, systemd-resolved, systemd-timesyncd, etc.
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• 1834[16:33:27] <wonderworld> binary logs....why???? ;)
• 1835[16:34:21] <jelly> greycat: exactly, and it's not a problem to set things up like that at all
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• 1840[16:39:55] <joepublic> "i like arch", "rolling releases are better", "down with systemd", what do you have for an encore, I wonder?
• 1841[16:40:29] <jelly> !offtopic
• 1842[16:40:29] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 1843[16:40:47] <wonderworld> jelly: whats an "encore" ?
• 1844[16:41:00] <greycat> The finale of your trolling performance.
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• 1847[16:43:20] <wonderworld> i could recommend Windows Server 2003 for critical services?
• 1848[16:43:48] <jelly> at least it's not lenny
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• 1850[16:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1403
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• 1852[16:44:35] <wonderworld> sorry that you feel i am trolling.
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• 1855[16:45:17] <joepublic> I personally don't feel that you are, but your positions are popular with trolls.
• 1856[16:45:32] <wonderworld> i guess i have to live with that
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• 1889[16:58:37] <mrslaughter1775> Hello. I'm pretty much screwed. I had a perfectly good version of Stretch running, but I tried to mess with my Nvidia drivers and now I can't login properly. Using Ctrl Alt F4 I can log in with no GUI, but that's about it. Here are the commands I ran before rebooting and experiencing the issue:
• 1890[16:59:45] <mrslaughter1775> 1. sudo apt install nvidia-detect
• 1891[16:59:58] <mrslaughter1775> 2. sudo apt install nvidia-driver
• 1892[17:00:53] *** Joins: ilmostro (~ilmostro@replaced-ip)
• 1893[17:01:18] * rant *crickets*
• 1894[17:01:27] *** Joins: Mazhive (~Mazhive@replaced-ip)
• 1895[17:01:30] <mrslaughter1775> 3. sudo bash -c "echo blacklist nouveau > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf
• 1896[17:02:20] <mrslaughter1775> 3. sudo bash -c "echo options nouveau modeset=0 >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf"
• 1897[17:02:22] <mrslaughter1775> 4*
• 1898[17:02:30] *** Joins: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip)
• 1899[17:02:54] <mrslaughter1775> 5. cat /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf
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• 1902[17:03:10] <rant> this is really happening isnt it?
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• 1906[17:03:26] <mrslaughter1775> (I think this one did it...) 6. sudo update-initramfs -u
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• 1908[17:03:30] <mrslaughter1775> 7. sudo reboot
• 1909[17:03:31] <rant> heh
• 1910[17:03:55] <Fox> pala
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• 1912[17:04:09] <Fox> oops, wrong term
• 1913[17:04:29] <mrslaughter1775> Does anyone have any ideas?
• 1914[17:04:31] <rant> well, first of all, Welcome to #debian, don't ever do that again..
• 1915[17:04:45] <rant> just paste it all on paste.debian.net
• 1916[17:05:01] <mrslaughter1775> I apologize. I would use a pastebin or something, but I have no window manager
• 1917[17:05:13] <rant> heh
• 1918[17:05:37] <rant> you open nano or such, type it all, save it, the cat file | nc termbin.com 9999
• 1919[17:06:13] <mrslaughter1775> Okay, once again, I apologize.
• 1920[17:06:34] <rant> something tells me you're not capable of fixing this in the current state even if someone were to help
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• 1922[17:06:48] <mrslaughter1775> What do you mean?
• 1923[17:06:57] <rant> can you still run commands and provide output?
• 1924[17:07:03] <mrslaughter1775> Correct.
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• 1926[17:08:09] <mrslaughter1775> I mean, I could always just reinstall my OS, though I'd rather learn to fix this instead.
• 1927[17:08:18] <rant> well rather than.. well .. all that.. you could've just said I installed the nvidia driver packages following the debian wiki, I expected it to make my graphics card work, instead I get a black screen or whatever..
• 1928[17:08:26] *** Quits: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1929[17:08:34] <rant> then someone would've said, well.. what hardware do you have?
• 1930[17:09:21] *** evilnewbie is now known as beaver
• 1931[17:09:34] <mrslaughter1775> And I could have said a Dell Inspiron 7559.
• 1932[17:09:36] <rant> mrslaughter1775: first thing you need to do is type lspci -nn and look at the Display/VGA line(s) look very closely.. see if you have more than one..
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• 1935[17:11:23] <mrslaughter1775> rant: Negative. I have an Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530.
• 1936[17:11:32] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 1939[17:12:25] <greycat> It's an optimus. It has both Intel and NVIDIA.
• 1940[17:12:26] <mrslaughter1775> But my 3d controller says NVIDIA Corporation GM107M (GeForce GTX 960M)
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• 1942[17:12:31] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: do you _only_ have the intel gpu or do you also have an nvidia?
• 1943[17:12:34] <jelly> right
• 1944[17:12:39] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: you'll want to figure out whether nvidia driver's kernel part is active or not
• 1945[17:12:50] *** Quits: glassresistor (~mikela@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1946[17:12:57] <jelly> lsmod|grep nvidia
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• 1951[17:14:27] <beepnboop-> hello, tlp stopped setcharge after an update
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• 1955[17:15:09] <beepnboop-> i just looked in the config file and the settings are still there but it completely ignores them
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• 1962[17:16:54] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: Alright, what sort of ouput should I be expecting?
• 1963[17:18:11] *** Parts: RadioElite (~tony@replaced-ip) ()
• 1964[17:18:17] <jelly> any lines of output would mean there's a module loaded
• 1965[17:18:27] *** hugo_ is now known as golum
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• 1967[17:18:34] <golum> Hi
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• 1970[17:18:47] <golum> Hello, i was not sure of the chanel but i tried to post my question here. Is it possible to send a mail to gmail from exim server without domain name, either lookup ptr ? I always get the same error :
• 1971[17:18:50] *** Quits: OS-41862 (~OS-41862@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1972[17:18:53] <EdePopede> bios clock should be preferably set to UTC and then the system settings (tzselect) should be set to the correct timezone, right? wondering what the bios on that other pc is doing.
• 1973[17:18:53] <mrslaughter1775> Roger. I have 5 lines of output. I'm trying to figure out how to save the output of that command so I can try to paste it here.
• 1974[17:18:54] *** Quits: AJ_Z0 (~AJ_Z0@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1+deb1~ubuntu12.04.2 - ##replaced-url
• 1975[17:18:59] <golum> replaced-url
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• 1979[17:19:47] <rant> then tell us what the vend/prod id code is for each [1234:abcd] is <-- for example
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• 1983[17:20:54] <rant> mrslaughter1775: lspci -nn | nc termbin.com 9999
• 1984[17:21:45] <greycat> I bet it will look a lot like the one on replaced-url
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• 1987[17:22:19] <jelly> golum: is this machine supposed to be a mail server?
• 1988[17:22:24] <mrslaughter1775> lspci -nn | nc termbin.com 9999
• 1989[17:22:25] *** Quits: toney (~tony@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1990[17:22:27] <mrslaughter1775> Whoops
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• 1992[17:22:44] <jelly> golum: does it have a fixed, static IP address, and valid and matching A and PTR records in DNS?
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• 1996[17:24:07] <jelly> golum: if not, you will probably only be able to send via SMTP AUTH with your gmail address and password
• 1997[17:24:51] <mrslaughter1775> rant: replaced-url
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• 2004[17:26:19] <beepnboop-> how do i fix tlp?
• 2005[17:26:42] <greycat> ,info tlp
• 2006[17:26:43] <judd> Package tlp (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Save battery power on laptops. Version: 0.9-3; Size: 56.3k; Installed: 257k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 2010[17:27:56] <jelly> golum: replaced-url
• 2011[17:28:19] <jelly> (no idea if they are, I'm not an exim person)
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• 2013[17:28:33] <golum> jelly, thanks for answer. No my server is not a mail server. I only need to send a mail from ther server periodicly. I have no domain name, so no PTR records
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• 2015[17:29:06] <linuxconformer> guys where is postgres data located?
• 2016[17:29:34] <mrslaughter1775> I'm so lost...I really should get a Linux book.
• 2017[17:29:34] *** Joins: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip)
• 2018[17:30:20] <jelly> linuxconformer: become user postgres (su - postgres, for example) and run pg_lsclusters
• 2019[17:30:57] *** Quits: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2020[17:31:14] <mrslaughter1775> Also here is the output you ask for most recently: replaced-url
• 2021[17:31:28] *** Quits: triston (~shiva@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2022[17:31:56] <jelly> linuxconformer: might work if it's run as root, too
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• 2028[17:35:20] <mrslaughter1775> Well at the very least I learned about curl and netcat from this snafu...
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• 2033[17:37:43] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: alright, so kernel part seems fine, and nvidia-detect on my stretch machine says your 960M ought to be supported by the default version in stretch
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• 2036[17:38:27] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: now, do you have a directory named /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ existing and is there anything in it?
• 2037[17:38:47] *** Parts: BronzeEagle (~BronzeEag@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 2038[17:38:49] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: Yes I do, and no there is not.
• 2039[17:39:02] <jelly> where's that thing
• 2040[17:39:05] *** Joins: Envil (~envil@replaced-ip)
• 2041[17:39:06] <jelly> !nvidia dkms
• 2042[17:39:06] <dpkg> For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist.
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• 2045[17:39:30] <jelly> msantana: do just this: mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
• 2046[17:39:34] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: Nevermind, no I do not.
• 2047[17:39:37] <jelly> as root
• 2048[17:39:44] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2049[17:39:51] <jelly> in a root shell, that is
• 2050[17:40:17] <jelly> not by merely prepending sudo to the whole thing because that won't work
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• 2053[17:41:07] *** Quits: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2054[17:41:30] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: and if you know which display manager you have installed, restart that service. If you don't, just reboot and see if that makes any difference
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• 2057[17:42:02] <jelly> that ought to be enough for a discrete nvidia card setup. I have no idea how optimus works.
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• 2060[17:42:19] <jelly> there might be more things to configure
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• 2062[17:42:49] <jelly> ort his might to more harm than good, killing the intel driver even if it's needed
• 2063[17:42:51] *** Quits: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 2064[17:43:21] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: I am running Gnome, so do I just do 'kill gnome'?
• 2065[17:43:37] *** Joins: p3rror (~p3rror@replaced-ip)
• 2066[17:43:40] <golum> jelly, do you have some idea ?
• 2067[17:43:47] *** Joins: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip)
• 2068[17:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1402
• 2069[17:44:25] <greycat> mrslaughter1775: perhaps something like "systemctl restart gdm3"
• 2070[17:44:26] *** Quits: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 2071[17:44:34] <mrslaughter1775> /etc/X11/default-display-manager
• 2072[17:44:37] <mrslaughter1775> Whoops
• 2073[17:44:46] *** Joins: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip)
• 2074[17:44:54] <jelly> golum: I've pretty much pointed at best resources I know of, did you read those two sites
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• 2079[17:45:12] <jelly> there might be better docs to read, but again, not an exim person
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• 2085[17:46:51] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: I ran greycat's command but I'm still not logging in properly.
• 2086[17:47:03] <zenix_2k2> guys one thing, so i was using a Debian distro as live environment, but then it went into sleep mode and now it requires a password for me to login so usually what is its default password ?
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• 2089[17:47:11] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: did anything visible happen after that command?
• 2090[17:47:14] *** Quits: Guest18004 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2092[17:47:23] <golum> jelly, great thanks
• 2093[17:48:01] *** Joins: plantroon (~plantroon@replaced-ip)
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• 2095[17:48:23] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: Yes. I was shown an authentication screen and entered my password. Upon completion, my box attempted to log me in but I got the same error: Whoops, something went wrong.
• 2096[17:48:33] <jelly> ah
• 2097[17:48:53] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: see if a reboot helps (it probably won't, but...)
• 2098[17:49:04] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: I'll give it a try. I'll be back.
• 2099[17:49:15] <jelly> that's what Arnie said
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• 2102[17:49:46] <greycat> This sounds like you were typing something inside a GUI application instead of logging in directly as root on tty2.
• 2103[17:49:50] <mrslaughter1775> Again, thanks for the help. Like I said, if we can't troubleshoot this it is no big deal. I don't have anything particularly important on this laptop so I can do a clean install.
• 2104[17:50:13] *** Joins: plantroon (~plantroon@replaced-ip)
• 2105[17:50:27] <mrslaughter1775> greycat: I'm logged in as my user, 'travis'.
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• 2107[17:50:57] <greycat> To restart gdm3, first of all, gdm3 would actually have to be running, which means you'd have to see the actual GDM graphical login screen, which means you aren't logged into GNOME currently.
• 2108[17:51:06] <jelly> greycat: the point of restarting *dm was to ascertain X started now, and being able to log in from said *dm would have confirmed the driver stack was well (behaved) (enough)
• 2109[17:51:27] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2110[17:51:31] <zenix_2k2> so... hello ?
• 2111[17:51:33] <mrslaughter1775> Brb
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• 2116[17:51:47] <greycat> What *I* would have done is log completely out of GNOME, Ctrl-Alt-F2, login as root, systemctl restart gdm3, logout, Ctrl-Alt-F1.
• 2117[17:52:02] <luxpir> any idea how to get nvidia-driver to pick up the other 2 connected monitors?
• 2118[17:52:02] <jelly> so if an "authentication screen" appeared that was good as it meant gdm3 actually (re)started now
• 2119[17:52:22] <greycat> OK, if you say so. I know as little as humanly possible about GNOME.
• 2120[17:52:24] *** Joins: beepnboop- (~beepnboop@replaced-ip)
• 2121[17:52:51] <jelly> I assume they did your restart gdm3 thing and then gdm3 screen appeared
• 2122[17:52:51] <beepnboop-> can i have debian paste link please
• 2123[17:53:04] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2124[17:53:13] <luxpir> can't get it to detect them when I xrandr - can't remember what I did diff on the other install (same hardware) to make it work. using i3
• 2125[17:53:38] *** Joins: mrslaughter1775 (~mrslaught@replaced-ip)
• 2126[17:53:43] <jelly> luxpir: can you pastebin the full xrandr output?
• 2127[17:53:47] <mrslaughter1775> Alright, so you were right. I saw the grub graphical menu upon boot
• 2128[17:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1410
• 2129[17:54:04] <jelly> the grub menu isn't that important
• 2130[17:54:13] <mrslaughter1775> Using Ctrl + Alt + F4 I logged into my user on tty2
• 2131[17:54:29] <mrslaughter1775> Oh.
• 2132[17:54:30] <beepnboop-> i'm looking at logs and people told me to use this command because this problem is reoccurring every few months
• 2133[17:54:33] <beepnboop-> replaced-url
• 2134[17:54:33] <greycat> I think he might be misstating things.
• 2135[17:54:39] <beepnboop-> anyway heres the error
• 2136[17:54:50] *** Joins: comatekeke (~comatekek@replaced-ip)
• 2137[17:55:09] <luxpir> checking log and it's showing nouveau still loading... will try to blacklist - thought it was when I looked last
• 2138[17:55:23] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: but continue saying what you were saying
• 2139[17:55:43] <mrslaughter1775> Um, is it important that the Whoops error screen was graphical?
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• 2145[17:56:47] <mrslaughter1775> I'm sorry I keep logging out. Even just touching my trackpad brings up a bunch of stuff that makes weechat act up.
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• 2148[17:58:12] <beepnboop-> i don't know for how long i'll have internet i keep losing power here
• 2149[17:58:17] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: you can press ctrl-L in weechat to refresh the screen contents, probably
• 2150[17:58:19] <beepnboop-> what do i need to do to fix tlp???
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• 2154[17:59:10] <mrslaughter1775> Well do you fine individuals have anymore ideas or input, or shall I just reinstall from USB?
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• 2169[18:05:41] <beepnboop-> i have no time and people keep ignoring me
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• 2171[18:06:28] *** Quits: OS-41862 (~OS-41862@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2172[18:06:58] <__m4ch1n3__> beepnboop-, almost gave a answer but now i will add some extra deleay :3
• 2173[18:07:00] *** Quits: joepublic (~joe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2174[18:07:02] <jelly> beepnboop-: that usually means the active ones do not know much about your issue
• 2175[18:07:27] <beepnboop-> i keep lose power here i already lost power 4 times in the past few hours
• 2176[18:07:36] <beepnboop-> electricity
• 2177[18:07:43] <beepnboop-> the whole town
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• 2182[18:09:47] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: on the graphical login screen (that may or may not be at Ctrl-Alt-F7), is there a way to select a different Session, and is there some sort of unaccelerated / safe X11 session option?
• 2183[18:10:49] <mrslaughter1775> I can't even access the graphical login screen.
• 2184[18:11:16] <mrslaughter1775> The one that normally pops up on boot where you can select your user and enter your password? I don't have that.
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• 2187[18:11:46] <__m4ch1n3__> "that" is called display manager
• 2188[18:11:47] <jelly> ah, so you have a whoops before or instead of the login screen?
• 2189[18:12:07] <__m4ch1n3__> there are diffrent display managers
• 2190[18:12:14] <__m4ch1n3__> i use lightdm e.g
• 2191[18:12:26] *** Joins: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 2192[18:12:33] *** Joins: eexez (~eexez@replaced-ip)
• 2193[18:12:56] <beepnboop-> replaced-url
• 2194[18:12:58] <mrslaughter1775> Correct. The Whoops screen tells me to try logging in again. If I click 'Login' from that screen it goes black and then brings me straight back to the Whoops screen.
• 2195[18:13:10] <beepnboop-> i'm sure you can help jelly
• 2196[18:13:23] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2197[18:13:29] <mrslaughter1775> __m4ch1n3__: I understand. I use gdm3
• 2198[18:13:30] <__m4ch1n3__> Whoops screen?
• 2199[18:13:46] <mrslaughter1775> An error screen. Let me restart and see exactly what it says.
• 2200[18:13:49] <mrslaughter1775> Brb
• 2201[18:14:01] *** Quits: mrslaughter1775 (~mrslaught@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
• 2202[18:14:08] <jelly> beepnboop-: maybe. if you have a linux kernel from stretch-backports, your matching linux headers need to also come from stretch-backports
• 2203[18:14:43] *** Joins: Zongva (~ole@replaced-ip)
• 2204[18:14:45] <jelly> beepnboop-: so the right command for this particular step would be something like... sudo apt -t stretch-backports install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
• 2205[18:14:45] <jelly> R
• 2206[18:14:48] *** Joins: faw (~faw@replaced-ip)
• 2207[18:15:18] <jelly> beepnboop-: however I don't know what your real goal is, did not track your issue in full
• 2208[18:15:28] *** Joins: pkx1 (~pkx@replaced-ip)
• 2209[18:16:07] <beepnboop-> i have problem with tlp that every time i update my system it brakes(all i want it to do is to set charge between 70% and 80%)
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• 2211[18:16:33] <beepnboop-> and i don't use my laptop often enough to remember how to fix it every time
• 2212[18:16:42] <jelly> write it down?
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• 2216[18:17:13] <beepnboop-> i looked at logs from the last few times and di all the same commands
• 2217[18:17:25] <beepnboop-> i didn't work since i'm on different kind of kernel
• 2218[18:17:29] <beepnboop-> it*
• 2219[18:17:45] <jelly> I mean open a text editor file and write down steps that worked and also things that did not work
• 2220[18:17:46] *** Joins: mrslaughter1775 (~mrslaught@replaced-ip)
• 2221[18:18:22] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: it looks like optimus + nvidia-driver requires some configuration. replaced-url
• 2222[18:18:25] <mrslaughter1775> Alright, so the actual graphical screen says this: "Oh no! Something has gone wrong. A problem has occurred and the system can't recover. Please log out and try again." There is a log out button which behaves as I previously described.
• 2223[18:18:39] <mrslaughter1775> jelly: Ah.
• 2224[18:18:41] <jelly> there are specific instructions for different *DMs
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• 2228[18:19:11] <mrslaughter1775> Let me use my newly learned curl skills to read that url :)
• 2229[18:19:18] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: and I have no idea if it's updated for gdm3 in stretch.
• 2230[18:19:29] <beepnboop-> replaced-url
• 2231[18:19:31] <__m4ch1n3__> mrslaughter1775, so its actually a display manager login loop?
• 2232[18:19:37] <mrslaughter1775> Correct.
• 2233[18:19:37] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: install a text-based web browser like elinks or links2 or w3m and use that
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• 2236[18:20:03] <jelly> __m4ch1n3__: not even a login loop, a DM initialization loop
• 2237[18:20:03] *** Quits: Se-bash (~seba@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2238[18:20:15] <__m4ch1n3__> do you have autologin enabled so it would login without asking you for pwd?
• 2239[18:20:31] *** Quits: altin (~altin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2240[18:20:54] <jelly> ,v tp-smapi-dkms
• 2241[18:20:55] <judd> Package: tp-smapi-dkms on amd64 -- jessie: 0.41-1; wheezy: 0.41-1; stretch: 0.42-1; stretch-backports: 0.43-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.43-1; sid: 0.43-1
• 2242[18:21:15] <__m4ch1n3__> i have an optimus card too, no problems with lightdm, got eaven native X PRIME synchronisation working ...
• 2243[18:21:17] *** Quits: Wioxjk (~Free@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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• 2245[18:21:27] <jelly> beepnboop-: I would install tp-smapi-dkms from stretch-backports as well, hoping it matches the kernel from there
• 2246[18:21:35] <beepnboop-> same error with sudo dpkg-reconfigure acpi-call-dkms
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• 2248[18:21:54] *** Joins: Se-bash (~seba@replaced-ip)
• 2249[18:21:56] <jelly> beepnboop-: do you really need all those to get things working?
• 2250[18:22:01] <jelly> ,v acpi-call-dkms
• 2251[18:22:02] <judd> Package: acpi-call-dkms on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1.0-2; stretch: 1.1.0-3; jessie-backports-sloppy: 1.1.0-4~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 1.1.0-4~bpo9+1; buster: 1.1.0-4; sid: 1.1.0-4
• 2252[18:22:03] <beepnboop-> should i remove everything that isn't backports from sources.list?
• 2253[18:22:12] <jelly> beepnboop-: absolutely NOT
• 2254[18:22:24] *** Joins: dethos_ (~dethos@replaced-ip)
• 2255[18:22:31] *** Quits: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2256[18:22:45] <jelly> beepnboop-: backports are not a complete branch, stretch-backports works ONLY as an addition to stretch
• 2257[18:22:45] *** Joins: Ether_Man_ (~ether009@replaced-ip)
• 2258[18:22:46] <n4dir> as a general rule of thumb you shouldn't even install more than needed from backports.
• 2259[18:23:11] <jelly> n4dir: determining what is "needed" is left as an exercise for the reader?
• 2260[18:23:13] *** Joins: GaneshRaju (~ganeshraj@replaced-ip)
• 2261[18:23:13] <__m4ch1n3__> mrslaughter1775, did it work before? or is it a fresh install?
• 2262[18:23:16] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2263[18:23:50] <n4dir> jelly: well, for starters installing an app because it has a higher version number, without knowing or needing new added features, would not be "needed"
• 2264[18:23:59] <jelly> beepnboop-: in general, if you upgraded a kernel you will want to upgrade all the firmware packages and all the -dkms packages to match
• 2265[18:24:11] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip)
• 2266[18:24:39] <beepnboop-> how do i do that for future reference
• 2267[18:24:40] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
• 2268[18:24:42] <mrslaughter1775> It worked before. I changed some stuff around and broke it.
• 2269[18:24:47] <beepnboop-> this time i'm saving the commands
• 2270[18:24:48] <__m4ch1n3__> and yes there is a sort of """safe""" mode that would load only generic modules on boot, also a generic video driver
• 2271[18:25:03] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2272[18:25:03] <jelly> beepnboop-: as n4dir, that is, if the old out-of-tree dkms module sources fail to build with current kernel
• 2273[18:25:37] *** Joins: wilkc (~wilkc@replaced-ip)
• 2274[18:25:39] <jelly> beepnboop-: how? you read the output of kernel upgrade process, noting all the failed dkms buils
• 2275[18:25:55] *** Quits: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: nix64bit)
• 2276[18:26:01] <beepnboop-> i mean how do i rebuild the whole system?
• 2277[18:26:02] *** Joins: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip)
• 2278[18:26:07] <jelly> beepnboop-: you don't.
• 2279[18:26:14] <SopaXorzTaker> Hmm, when I unlocked my (already-on) machine, I temporarily saw a lock icon and some text on a black background
• 2280[18:26:21] *** Ether_Man_ is now known as Ether_Man
• 2281[18:26:22] <SopaXorzTaker> It vanished rather quickly
• 2282[18:26:24] <mrslaughter1775> Screw it. I learned about three new tools, so that's good. I'm going to just reinstall my OS.
• 2283[18:26:24] <jelly> beepnboop-: you only fix that which needs fixing, and not more
• 2284[18:26:26] *** Quits: mniip (mniip@replaced-ip) (Quit: This page is intentionally left blank.)
• 2285[18:26:41] <beepnboop-> then how can i prevent this problem from happing again?
• 2286[18:26:56] <jelly> mrslaughter1775: yeah, help via irc can be daunting, sorry
• 2287[18:26:57] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
• 2288[18:27:15] <jelly> beepnboop-: you can't if you keep upgrading. Things sometimes break.
• 2289[18:27:22] <__m4ch1n3__> mrslaughter1775, remember when i started use linux, i screwed stuff once a week that mnuch that i had to reinstall o.s again :D
• 2290[18:27:48] <jelly> beepnboop-: however, once you installed a package from stretch-backports, apt will know to pull it from there from this point on
• 2291[18:28:00] <beepnboop-> should i stop updating then?
• 2292[18:28:09] <jelly> beepnboop-: so hopefully next time it will be less things to fix
• 2293[18:28:16] *** Quits: dethos_ (~dethos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2294[18:28:18] <beepnboop-> i did backports cause i have thinkpad t470 not old one
• 2295[18:28:31] <greycat> In general, you should only use backports of things that you actually *need* from backports. Otherwise, use the stable packages.
• 2296[18:28:33] <mrslaughter1775> __m4ch1n3__: Yeah, it is just part of learning. Nothing wrong with breaking boxes.
• 2297[18:28:49] <beepnboop-> yeah will do greycat
• 2298[18:29:00] <jelly> beepnboop-: you have to weigh your risks from not updating and risks from making your 2016 hardware usable and choose on your own
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• 2302[18:29:20] <__m4ch1n3__> mrslaughter1775, you could boot with "nomodeset" bootoption, for generic driver if its still not working then you know at least that at this point nvidia driver doesnt matter
• 2303[18:29:36] <beepnboop-> brb restarting
• 2304[18:29:52] <__m4ch1n3__> and its propably some display dm or xorg config
• 2305[18:29:55] *** Quits: lsyoyom (~liny01@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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• 2307[18:30:16] <__m4ch1n3__> issue
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• 2314[18:31:45] <jelly> __m4ch1n3__: it's probably "why the hell would you buy an optimus machine if you knew you were going to run linux on it"
• 2315[18:31:54] *** Joins: Sabaku (~Sabaku@replaced-ip)
• 2316[18:32:25] <jelly> or at least pick one where nvidia can be switched off
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• 2318[18:33:09] *** Quits: pkx1 (~pkx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2319[18:33:13] <jelly> that said I'm probably going to bite my tongue if I buy a T25 as I'm planning to
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• 2321[18:33:24] *** Parts: linuxconformer (adf9228b@replaced-ip) ()
• 2322[18:33:31] *** Joins: sanches (~sanches@replaced-ip)
• 2323[18:33:33] <at0m> i do only optirun $app if i need the performance (either to save the CPU, or to get fast gfx)
• 2324[18:33:42] <at0m> so not DM-wide
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• 2327[18:34:09] <beepnboop-> sudo tlp setcharge 70 80 BAT1 > Setting temporary charge thresholds for BAT1: > stop = 80 > start = 70
• 2328[18:34:10] <jelly> at0m: I have no idea what makes GDM3 barf. Maybe it wants 3D and a composer right away....
• 2329[18:34:16] <beepnboop-> looks like it done it
• 2330[18:34:19] *** Joins: linuxconformer (adf9228b@replaced-ip)
• 2331[18:34:20] <beepnboop-> thank you jelly
• 2332[18:34:25] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
• 2333[18:34:27] <__m4ch1n3__> jelly, find out what optimus is after bought laptop :) it used to be a pain in the ass but now thinhgs changed since X supports PRIME synchronisation
• 2334[18:34:37] <linuxconformer> guys is it possible to run a .sh script twice a day?
• 2335[18:34:44] <jelly> linuxconformer: yes
• 2336[18:34:44] <linuxconformer> how would i do this?
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• 2339[18:34:58] <jelly> linuxconformer: is the machine running 24/7?
• 2340[18:35:04] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip)
• 2341[18:35:04] <linuxconformer> jelly: yep
• 2342[18:35:19] *** Joins: emrullah (~emrullah@replaced-ip)
• 2343[18:35:53] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip)
• 2344[18:36:10] <jelly> linuxconformer: set up a cron job definition like this: 0 0,12 * * * /path/to/your/executable
• 2345[18:36:16] *** Joins: Wioxjk (~Free@replaced-ip)
• 2346[18:36:17] <__m4ch1n3__> in windows there is no way use nvidia gpu without offloading + frame transport, in linux there is a way to run everthying on nvidia gpu and have vsync with PRIME synchronisation, gives me in csgo twice as high framerate compared to windows
• 2347[18:36:21] <at0m> jelly, __m4ch1n3__: i've tried to optirun SDDM, but not too long and it was too much of a hassle so gave up quick. good to see that page and X have been updated
• 2348[18:36:21] <jelly> linuxconformer: install cron if you need to
• 2349[18:36:33] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2350[18:36:37] <__m4ch1n3__> optirun is a pile of shit
• 2351[18:36:55] <jelly> linuxconformer: there are also systemd timers if you have systemd, but I do not know that solution
• 2352[18:37:10] <__m4ch1n3__> the whole offloading frame transport thing is the most usles and stupid thing ever
• 2353[18:37:13] <at0m> __m4ch1n3__: well, i'll revisit and attempt to follow that wiki some time soon
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• 2357[18:38:04] <jelly> beepnboop-: and thank you for making me aware there's a "tlp", mayhaps I might get my T420s to live a bit longer than 90 minutes sans AC power
• 2358[18:38:07] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip)
• 2359[18:38:29] <__m4ch1n3__> only usecase where it makes sense is for cuda computing if you run a desktop, then desktop runs only on intel and cuda can use nvdia gpu exclusive
• 2360[18:38:43] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2361[18:38:51] *** Quits: emrullah (~emrullah@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2362[18:39:05] <trysten> what's a program I can run to see what key-presses are being recieved?
• 2363[18:39:26] <__m4ch1n3__> keylogger
• 2364[18:39:27] <jelly> trysten: xev in X, but hover the mouse above its window first
• 2365[18:39:37] <beepnboop-> jelly, i've looked at the hexchat logs its no the first time you try to help me with this
• 2366[18:39:43] <beepnboop-> Hopefully the last time
• 2367[18:39:48] <jelly> beepnboop-: lol
• 2368[18:39:57] <__m4ch1n3__> :DDD
• 2369[18:40:06] *** Joins: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip)
• 2370[18:40:06] <greycat> xev, if you're trying to debug something
• 2371[18:40:26] *** Joins: emrullah (~emrullah@replaced-ip)
• 2372[18:40:37] <trysten> jelly: anything that'd work in terminal? I can almost remember Vim having some mode that told you what keys were being pressed. I'm using terminal in OSX to ssh to my debian box so the alt key isn't working like it's supposed to
• 2373[18:41:53] <jelly> trysten: xev works in a terminal in X, and "showkeys" works in linux console. if you have a terminal in OSX you'll have to debug there.
• 2374[18:41:55] <__m4ch1n3__> trysten, then use tmux, it let you also config how keys behave
• 2375[18:42:31] *** Quits: abf_ (~abf@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2376[18:42:37] <trysten> showkeys!
• 2377[18:42:46] <jelly> trysten: ssh doesn't pass keypress events. They get converted to escape ("control") sequences
• 2378[18:43:20] *** Joins: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 2379[18:43:45] <jelly> trysten: pressing just a modifier key, like Alt or Control (or Command or Option, what have you) does not pass anything over to ssh
• 2380[18:43:46] <trysten> jelly: I see. Not excited to have to add one to this list in OSX's terminal to get the behavior i'm used to
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• 2384[18:45:12] <jelly> but if you press, dunno, Alt + CursorDown, that sends an escape sequence dependent on your terminal type (echo $TERM in OSX to show it)
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• 2387[18:46:20] <trysten> it's actually xterm-256color
• 2388[18:46:31] <jelly> trysten: if terminal type ("terminfo") definitions on local unix (OSX) and the remote unix (Debian) are called the same but do not match, you can have issues like this
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• 2392[18:47:27] <trysten> Thank's jelly. Very helpful as always :)
• 2393[18:47:55] <beepnboop-> omg its there in the wiki... " apt-get install -t stretch-backports tlp tlp-rdw "
• 2394[18:48:00] <jelly> not really, because I haven't explained how to see and transfer actual terminfo definition to the remote machine
• 2395[18:48:01] <beepnboop-> so blind
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• 2397[18:48:38] <beepnboop-> though it wouldn't help with the kernel headers of backports
• 2398[18:48:42] <__m4ch1n3__> trysten, replaced-url
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• 2402[18:49:28] <jelly> trysten: terminal multiplexers like tmux or screen can make this better or worse
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• 2406[18:49:59] <jelly> depending on where you run them and how much translation they do
• 2407[18:50:29] <trysten> jelly: I'm always using screen, too. But my stick seems to be OSX's behavior using the 'option' key.
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• 2411[18:50:48] <beepnboop-> wow i can even discharge the batteries
• 2412[18:50:59] <trysten> So I think you've taken me as far as I need. Now to convince OSX to remap it's keys a little
• 2413[18:50:59] <jelly> trysten: screen is horrible and may be the culprit here actually
• 2414[18:51:07] * jelly also uses screen
• 2415[18:51:09] <trysten> jelly: i wish you hadn't said that!! Now
• 2416[18:51:11] <trysten> Oh..
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• 2418[18:51:23] <trysten> I was going to say, now I have to finally switch
• 2419[18:52:05] <beepnboop-> jelly, you should bring back that thinkpad alive, thinkpads were meant to be used with linux
• 2420[18:52:23] * n4dir won't switch, to give others the chance to tell tmux is better.
• 2421[18:52:55] <jelly> trysten: where are you running screen, local or remote?
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• 2423[18:53:38] <jelly> trysten: see if starting it initially with -a makes a difference, and try not to override its TERM=screen value
• 2424[18:53:56] <jelly> (in the shells inside it)
• 2425[18:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1417
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• 2428[18:54:26] <jelly> beepnboop-: it's alive. Just not able to run for too long.
• 2429[18:55:16] * jelly has 3-4 AC adapters: at home, at work, at parents', and maybe in the backpack
• 2430[18:55:18] <beepnboop-> new batteries?(battery plus battery instead of dvd drive)
• 2431[18:55:25] <linuxconformer> jelly, i created a cron job, but it's not working (not executing my .bash file), using the command "* * * * * bash /path/to/file". Could this be because it uses sudo in the bash file? (which is also executable)
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• 2433[18:55:50] <jelly> beepnboop-: I'm not going to ask for help about it in here or right now, sorry
• 2434[18:56:07] <beepnboop-> alright
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• 2436[18:56:31] <beepnboop-> you can always come over to ##ibmthinkpad
• 2437[18:57:12] <trysten> I also have a thinkpad and a charger at work and at parents.
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• 2448[19:01:39] <jelly> linuxconformer: I don't use bash a lot, but "man bash", section INVOCATION, ought to help explaining the difference between files used for interactive usage and non-interactive usage. Second, if you want to use sudo in a cron job, you will have to configure sudo to allow running without a tty: "man sudoers", read about requiretty, and see if Debian's default /etc/sudoers sets it (IIRC it does)
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• 2450[19:02:51] <jelly> linuxconformer: there is no ".bash" file that I know of. Be as precise as possible asking for help on irc
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• 2454[19:07:06] <greycat> linuxconformer: when you run "bash /foo", this does not read ANY dot files. And this is on purpose. Because system programs that read user dot files would explode in very exciting ways when the user edits the dot file.
• 2455[19:07:33] <greycat> The only idiots that try to put system configuration in user dot files work for Oracle. You wouldn't ever want to do anything that Oracle would do, would you?
• 2456[19:08:10] <linuxconformer> jelly: got it wokring, thanks man
• 2457[19:08:18] <linuxconformer> greycat: all good ;)
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• 2463[19:12:18] <jelly> greycat: well there are other vendors...
• 2464[19:12:40] <jelly> admittedly the ones I've seen use oracle in their own product
• 2465[19:13:17] <jelly> and they csh.
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• 2469[19:15:28] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I installed Debian 9 on my laptop. I don't see how to suspend it. Is it possible? Do I need to install something special?
• 2470[19:16:12] <jelly> RandomGuyOnIrc: uh, if you have Gnome, I think you just close the lid and it's supposed to suspend
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• 2472[19:16:29] <RandomGuyOnIrc> thanks, I will try that
• 2473[19:17:00] <RandomGuyOnIrc> hmmmm, I am using the default desktop manager, Is the Debian manager based on gnome?
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• 2476[19:19:57] <RandomGuyOnIrc> thanks for the help guys, ttyl
• 2477[19:20:17] <mutante> RandomGuyOnIrc: it should just be .. gnome
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• 2492[19:28:37] <bolovanos> hithere, I installed package named munin replaced-url
• 2493[19:29:09] <bolovanos> by debuging /usr/share/munin/plugins/df plugin I found out that it does not have initialized $ENV variable
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• 2495[19:29:50] <bolovanos> somehow - version I have installed varies significantly from version here replaced-url
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• 2497[19:30:23] <bolovanos> but somehow is almost the same to this version replaced-url
• 2498[19:30:57] <bolovanos> I would like to see exact source for this plugin in sourcebase replaced-url
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• 2500[19:31:33] <bolovanos> I was also searching for this snippet "defined $ENV{exclude_re}" using debsources, but same result
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• 2502[19:31:46] <bolovanos> probably doing some trivial mistake - can you pls help me?
• 2503[19:32:00] <greycat> bolovanos: that looks like perl, not shell.
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• 2505[19:32:27] <greycat> It's checking whether there is an environment variable named exclude_re.
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• 2510[19:34:06] <bolovanos> greycat, yes it is, but that variable is not initialized when debuging it with "print "include_re '$ENV(include_re)'\n";" placed after condition
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• 2512[19:34:25] <bolovanos> btw - what do you mean by "pearl not shell..."
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• 2514[19:34:36] <greycat> one of those has $ENV{foo} and the other has $ENV(foo)
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• 2516[19:34:42] <greycat> one or more of those is probably wrong
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• 2518[19:35:11] <greycat> Perl is a programming language. Shell script (sh, bash, etc.) is a different language.
• 2519[19:36:05] <greycat> Are you unable to see the difference betwen {foo} and (foo)? If so, you need to change font, or increase the font size, or give up being a programmer.
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• 2522[19:37:41] <bolovanos> you r probably referring to those git sources, r u? - both seems to me be declared as perl...
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• 2524[19:38:22] <greycat> I am not looking at anything in git, or indeed anywhere at all outside of this chat. I am only responding to what you yourself wrote here.
• 2525[19:39:06] <bolovanos> u right
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• 2527[19:39:51] <bolovanos> even without reading sources ... this "()" comes from file installed from debian package
• 2528[19:40:36] <bolovanos> anyway - I do not know how does this answer my question...
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• 2534[19:42:29] <ctcx> Just a curious doubt. I have read already about Mesa in general. But I remember some time ago, in some "micro" distribution, Flash plugin didn't work at all on browsers such as Chrome, Firefox, PaleMoon unless package "Mesa GLU library" was installed.
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• 2536[19:42:40] <ctcx> How can a Mesa thing affect plugins in browsers?
• 2537[19:44:18] <bolovanos> btw - looked again - and of course you were right greycat - it is { not ( in sources, bad eyes
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• 2545[19:47:20] <bolovanos> but changing ( to { does not eradicate error "Use of uninitialized value $ENV{"include_re"} in concatenation (.) or string at"
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• 2553[19:52:02] <bolovanos> this replaced-url
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• 2569[19:58:41] <ctcx> ??
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• 2730[21:26:04] <adamantium> Hi, I'm running debian 9.5 stable as a desktop, but i installed from the server iso (no gui). Now i've installed all the usual things and have my Xorg desktop running, but often when I reboot and login my volume is muted, and I have to use pavucontrol to unmute the output. How can I fix this?
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• 2735[21:27:05] <greycat> I have to raise the volume in alsamixer after every reboot. *shrug*
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• 2737[21:27:26] <jelly> adamantium, can you log off cleanly once, then reboot and see if the state is saved?
• 2738[21:27:28] <greycat> At least it remembers the un-muting part, even if it doesn't remember the volume.
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• 2741[21:28:22] <adamantium> jelly: it has happened several times, I think sometimes the volume is muted and sometimes it is not.
• 2742[21:28:29] <adamantium> (on reboots)
• 2743[21:28:39] <jelly> old /etc/init.d/alsa-utils mentions /var/lib/alsa/asound.state
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• 2745[21:28:54] <jelly> I don't remember which tool is supposed to save it
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• 2752[21:30:44] <jelly> alsa-state.service now, apparently
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• 2754[21:32:11] <adamantium> systemctl enable alsa-state , i have no unit
• 2755[21:32:24] <adamantium> do i need to install alsa-utils probably
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• 2759[21:34:13] <adamantium> Okay, yes, jelly ! This sounds correct, I believe I was missing the alsa-utils package.
• 2760[21:34:29] <adamantium> Now i see two systemd units, alsa-state and alsa-restore, they're not enabled tho
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• 2762[21:34:54] <jelly> my stretch system seems to want to run that if /etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf exists. But it does not. And old init script is masked.
• 2763[21:35:10] <jelly> I have NO idea how volume is restored.
• 2764[21:35:37] <greycat> The man page for alsactl says there's a second file at /var/lib/alsa/asound.state that's used by default, and I do have that.
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• 2766[21:36:04] <jelly> ah. /lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service has an OPPOSITE requirement, only run if /etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf does NOT exist
• 2767[21:36:04] <__m4ch1n3__> some time ago i thought pulseaudio is broken/has a bug, then i found out that its a FEATURE called "flat volumes"
• 2768[21:36:10] <greycat> Mine's dated May 2018 which, hell if I know, might have been the last time I did a clean reboot instead of just having the power go out.
• 2769[21:36:15] * jelly throws hands in the air
• 2770[21:36:20] <adamantium> i bet i just need to reboot and test this
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• 2772[21:37:14] <jelly> __m4ch1n3__, people have complained about the defaults for that feature, and I think some distros flip it
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• 2775[21:38:35] <__m4ch1n3__> i cant count how often it turned something other that loud that i thought my speakers would explode lol
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• 2781[21:41:49] <adamantium> jelly: sound works now on two consecutive reboots. i definitely needed the alsa-utils pkg, which in turn enabled the alsa-restore.service.
• 2782[21:41:58] <adamantium> Thanks for reminding me of alsa-utils.
• 2783[21:42:19] <__m4ch1n3__> that should rly be not default, it can harm seriously your ears or damage your speakers
• 2784[21:42:30] <jelly> adamantium, I guess it's good that it works even if I have no idea _how_
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• 2786[21:42:57] <adamantium> What do you mean?
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• 2788[21:43:07] <greycat> jelly: if the alternative file doesn't exist, it runs alsactl kill which writes to the compiled-in default file mentioned in the man page
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• 2790[21:43:25] <greycat> I have no idea what happens if the alternative file exists, or who uses it.
• 2791[21:43:36] <adamantium> jelly: alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State
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• 2877[22:26:10] <hydrajump> hi using the stretch 9.5.0 netinstall and deselecting all the packages during install still results in ~200 packages being installed.
• 2878[22:26:41] <greycat> De-selecting everything in tasksel gives you the bare minimum Debian system.
• 2879[22:26:55] <hydrajump> I've heard that there is a way to install debian without the core packages, but I haven't found how that is done. Can anyone explain?
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• 2881[22:28:38] <jelly> hydrajump, maybe there is, what specifically do you mean by "core packages"
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• 2884[22:30:05] <jelly> if you read the installation guide, there are various installation methods. You can debootstrap rather minuscule installations if you're getting your kernel and boot loader from someplace other than debian, for example
• 2885[22:30:35] <hydrajump> jelly: honestly not sure I'm trying to understand that myself. I'm trying to setup debian using this as a base replaced-url
• 2886[22:31:26] <greycat> I'm not sure I get the goal here. You're trying to create your own Debian installer instead of using an existing one? Why?
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• 2891[22:32:30] <hydrajump> No not create my own installer. I'm trying to setup a minimal debian stretch machine.
• 2892[22:32:58] <greycat> What is wrong with the result that you got by doing a regular install and de-selecting everything including Standard? What are you eager to change?
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• 2895[22:33:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 2896[22:33:58] <jelly> BANBOT9000, unauthorized bots are not allowed in here.
• 2897[22:34:13] <jelly> Desist!
• 2898[22:34:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 2899[22:34:30] <hydrajump> If as you explained I don't get the kernel and boot loader from some other place than debian is running the netinstall as-is (no special boot parameters etc) and deselecting all packages result in a minimal system with the bare essentials for a working system?
• 2900[22:34:39] <BANBOT9000> jelly: :*
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• 2902[22:34:49] <greycat> hydrajump: what is your GOAL
• 2903[22:35:07] <greycat> you don't get to quiz us until we write 16,000 lines of text about every possible conceivable thing
• 2904[22:35:09] <hydrajump> greycat: a minimal working install of debian
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• 2906[22:35:23] <greycat> You're going in circles.
• 2907[22:35:25] <jelly> hydrajump, when you deselect everything you get a system that can go online on wired network and run apt.
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• 2910[22:35:44] <hydrajump> I'm not trying to quiz anyone. I don't see why what I just wrote isn't an accepted goal
• 2911[22:35:48] <jelly> hydrajump, which part of that functionality is not minimal?
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• 2913[22:36:16] <jelly> there may be a couple package you can shave off that, but not a lot.
• 2914[22:36:19] <jelly> packages*
• 2915[22:36:48] <jelly> (like maybe you have a static network config, so you can get rid of dhclient)
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• 2918[22:38:28] <hydrajump> ok and dictionaries, nano, vim etc?
• 2919[22:38:30] <jelly> or rpcbind/portmap, that used to get installed but is not needed except for nfs things
• 2920[22:39:10] <jelly> hydrajump, you get a very crippled vi-like vim build and no dictionaries that I'm aware of
• 2921[22:39:38] <jelly> can you show the installed package list?
• 2922[22:39:55] <hydrajump> weird when I run `dpkg --list` I have 3 dictionaries
• 2923[22:40:04] <jelly> !paste
• 2924[22:40:04] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 2925[22:40:14] <hydrajump> sure one sec
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• 2927[22:40:46] <somiaj> hydrajump: debootstrap has ways to make things a little more 'minimial', but a standard system (see standard task) is considered a minimial debian install (it is fairly small). The netinstall with selecting no extra things is a bit smaller than standard.
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• 2930[22:41:19] <greycat> He's not even selecting Standard.
• 2931[22:41:37] <greycat> He wants you to know every single byte and spell it all out for him. Even though he has NO GOAL.
• 2932[22:41:42] <jelly> or he's saying he's not selecting standard
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• 2935[22:42:20] <somiaj> the smallest I know of is debootstrap --variant=minbase (only includes essential packages and apt)
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• 2937[22:43:54] <hydrajump> jelly: replaced-url
• 2938[22:43:56] <bites> $ aptitude search '?priority(required) | ?priority(important)' | grep -v i386 | wc -l yields 108 packages.
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• 2943[22:45:36] <greycat> Looks like the dictionaries are brought in because of "task-english" which must be something hard-coded in the installer because you chose English language. Maybe?
• 2944[22:45:56] <greycat> Now do you have an actual GOAL yet?
• 2945[22:46:40] <jelly> hydrajump, which locale did you choose during installation?
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• 2947[22:46:57] <hydrajump> the default english
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• 2949[22:47:39] <jelly> you can choose POSIX (C) instead
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• 2952[22:48:12] <somiaj> hydrajump: if you install aptitude, apt install aptitude, you can then aptitude why packagename to see why it was pulled in. That is sometimes useful info.
• 2953[22:48:14] <EdePopede> sounds like what i did many years back with SuSE as i mentioned before. in my case there was a file somewhere used by the installer tagging some packages as vital, they were installed no matter what. far less than 200, but must have been in the days of the 2.0 kernel.
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• 2957[22:48:34] <jelly> our systems don't get even "locales" installed by default, something's amiss there
• 2958[22:48:53] <hydrajump> somiaj: cool I'll try that and also google the debootstrap command you shared.
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• 2966[22:50:16] <greycat> "aptitude why dictionaries-common" is what I actually used to see.
• 2967[22:50:26] <greycat> i task-english Recommends ibritish
• 2968[22:50:26] <greycat> i A ibritish Depends dictionaries-common (>= 1.23~)
• 2969[22:50:41] <greycat> And he also had task-english, so there you are.
• 2970[22:50:54] <jelly> you people have to stop blaming the english
• 2971[22:50:55] <hydrajump> jelly: are you saying that the installed packages in that paste are greater than you'd expect with everything including standard deselected?
• 2972[22:51:01] <jelly> hydrajump, yes
• 2973[22:51:05] <somiaj> hydrajump: debootstrap will require you install manually, no automation. You can get a more minmial install that way, but need to configure/control a lot more.
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• 2975[22:51:31] <somiaj> hydrajump: but having an actual goal helps us give better advise. Generic advise is the standard task is a good minmial place to start for most things (laptops, desktops, servers)
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• 2978[22:52:51] <hydrajump> bites: I also get 108 packages when I run that command
• 2979[22:53:09] <somiaj> hydrajump: means you are using the same repos.
• 2980[22:53:19] <somiaj> but in debian stable that should be normal.
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• 2984[22:54:12] <bites> to be fair, those 108 packages don't include grub and maybe other things i can't think of that are also needed.
• 2985[22:54:52] <hydrajump> what I'm curious about now is that jelly said I have more packages installed than expected. I don't understand why that is if I didn't select any pkgs to install other than what the debian-installer does itself.
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• 2987[22:55:17] <jelly> you have made different choices in the installer
• 2988[22:55:40] <somiaj> bites: you left out essential if you wanted to count core packages.
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• 2994[22:57:07] <bites> hmm... essential doesn't seem to be a priority but a separate field in the control file.
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• 2997[22:59:09] <bites> yeah, essentail are included in the 108.
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• 3001[23:01:56] <jelly> hydrajump, eg. if your machine boots in UEFI mode, the installer will choose efi variant of grub loader packages, and efibootmgr. If you choose btrfs for a filesystem, you will get btrfs-progs.
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• 3009[23:04:02] <hydrajump> ok that makes sense that the debian installer would install the relevant packages for those things. I'm doing a new install and selected no localization.
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• 3018[23:12:24] <hydrajump> ok 205 instead of 248 so locale made some difference. I found these instructions replaced-url
• 3019[23:12:48] <hydrajump> I'll give that a go as that sounds like what I'm after.
• 3020[23:13:50] <greycat> "what I'm after"
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• 3022[23:13:55] <greycat> so there's a goal but he won't tell US
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• 3027[23:15:00] <jelly> consider the possibility the user thinks they've stated it already or that the goal is obvious... to them, but perhaps not to us
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• 3031[23:15:48] <greycat> I asked three times, with the word goal in all caps.
• 3032[23:15:57] <bites> saving thousands of bytes of storage.
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• 3034[23:16:17] <greycat> Well, the first time it was lower-case. And one time it was just a statement. So, 3-4 times.
• 3035[23:16:54] <jelly> and they said <hydrajump> greycat: a minimal working install of debian
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• 3037[23:17:13] <greycat> What does that mean?
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• 3043[23:18:25] <jelly> exactly
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• 3050[23:19:34] <jelly> is a system without italian locales "working" for a user che cognosce solo la lingua italiana
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• 3052[23:19:42] <hydrajump> thanks for the discussion and pointers for what to look at. Everyone might not be satisfied with the answers I've given but that's ok ;)
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• 3056[23:21:04] <scwizard> hey I'm having some issue with curl and SSL on debian testing
• 3057[23:21:18] <scwizard> curl -L replaced-url
• 3058[23:21:20] <scwizard> gives me:
• 3059[23:21:32] <scwizard> curl: (35) error:1414D172:SSL routines:tls12_check_peer_sigalg:wrong signature type
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• 3064[23:22:36] <scwizard> wait huh?
• 3065[23:22:36] <scwizard> curl: (4) OpenSSL was built without SSLv2 support
• 3066[23:22:37] <greycat> Chrome shows that web site as "not secure"
• 3067[23:22:53] <greycat> Is it really using SSLv2?!
• 3068[23:23:00] <scwizard> i don't know
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• 3072[23:23:37] <jelly> scwizard, pastebin the output of curl -vL ...
• 3073[23:23:41] <scwizard> greycat: firefox on debian testing says it's secure
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• 3076[23:24:32] <scwizard> replaced-url
• 3077[23:25:52] <jelly> scwizard, works over here Either your anycast endpoint for 50.97.198.58 is buggy, or something is intercepting and changing the traffic you're seeing.
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• 3079[23:26:12] <scwizard> jelly: you're on debian testing?
• 3080[23:26:31] <scwizard> curl 7.61.0 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.61.0 OpenSSL/1.1.1 zlib/1.2.11 libidn2/2.0.5 libpsl/0.20.2 (+libidn2/2.0.5) libssh2/1.8.0 nghttp2/1.34.0 librtmp/2.3
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• 3082[23:26:37] <jelly> scwizard, no.
• 3083[23:26:49] <scwizard> jelly: i'm on debian testing
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• 3085[23:26:56] <annadane> isn't firefox on debian testing still 52?
• 3086[23:27:11] <scwizard> annadane: yes
• 3087[23:27:12] <annadane> thus it may effect certificates
• 3088[23:27:21] <scwizard> annadane: works fine in firefox, doesn't work in curl
• 3089[23:27:22] <annadane> i'd probably go ask #debian-next (on irc.oftc.net)
• 3090[23:27:32] <annadane> oh, ok. misreading, then. still, if it's testing...
• 3091[23:27:37] <annadane> ...that's the regular channel
• 3092[23:27:38] <scwizard> gotcha
• 3093[23:27:43] <jelly> this isn't about certificates, they haven't even negotiated protocols
• 3094[23:27:45] *** Quits: xsisec (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 3095[23:27:49] <jelly> !debian-next
• 3096[23:27:49] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 3097[23:28:27] <scwizard> thanks, hopfully it's an active channel...
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• 3100[23:28:48] <jelly> you may or may not find many of the same people
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• 3103[23:29:20] <annadane> if it works on one but not the other it's either a problem in firefox or curl, i guess
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• 3107[23:30:03] <annadane> and i'm guessing firefox
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• 3109[23:31:05] <jelly> scwizard, this is what ssl negotiation looks like on a stretch system: replaced-url
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• 3112[23:31:39] <davide1> after installing debian upgrading to sid and installing gnome-core my sound isn't working, gnome doesn't list any output devices. i've used an install with xfce before and audio was working fine but suddenly stopped working as well, anyone who knows the cause?
• 3113[23:31:54] <annadane> this is a known issue, let me find the bug report
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• 3116[23:32:48] <jelly> annadane, you're ruining the perfect excuse to just go !debian-next again
• 3117[23:32:51] *** Quits: pricing (uid324397@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3118[23:33:23] <annadane> it may be replaced-url
• 3119[23:33:24] <jelly> with a side of snide !sid faq and getting to keep ALL the pieces
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• 3122[23:33:53] <annadane> !debian-next
• 3123[23:33:54] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 3124[23:33:55] <annadane> :-)
• 3125[23:33:58] <annadane> !sid faq
• 3126[23:33:59] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 3127[23:35:08] <davide1> that's unfortunate, thank you annadane
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• 3129[23:35:19] <davide1> do you know by chance when they will refresh?
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• 3131[23:35:34] <annadane> i think they just did actually, but i don't really have the times memorized
• 3132[23:35:42] <annadane> it's once every 6 hours
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• 3135[23:36:20] <annadane> ah well apparently not *just* now. anyway, just check in a few hours
• 3136[23:36:43] <jelly> depending on just HOW impatient you are
• 3137[23:36:46] <jelly> !incoming
• 3138[23:36:46] <dpkg> hmm... incoming is to be used at your own risk, packages are even dodgier than unstable (see <break>) but can be obtained from replaced-url
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• 3141[23:37:55] <davide1> thanks, i think i will wait for the official update, just unfortunate that something as elementary as sound breaks
• 3142[23:38:15] <jelly> it's not unfortunate. It's normal for sid.
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• 3144[23:39:14] <annadane> for me on eastern time zone i think it's 4 and 12, which is now 3 and 11 thanks to the time change
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• 3146[23:39:35] <annadane> so uh... 4 hours from now?
• 3147[23:39:36] <davide1> the sound stack? used sid on and off but never had sound break
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• 3150[23:40:45] <annadane> uh. 4 and 10.
• 3151[23:40:53] <annadane> so 2ish hours.
• 3152[23:40:57] <annadane> math is hard, guys
• 3153[23:41:29] <davide1> ^^
• 3154[23:41:57] <jelly> some mirrors don't even react on update bursts and pull updates on their own schedule!
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• 3157[23:42:43] <annadane> realistically it's more like 2 1/2 hours depending on the mirror, i know it takes around 45 minutes to an hour to update the mirrors
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• 3161[23:43:32] <annadane> you can track all this stuff on #debian-devel-changes on irc.oftc.net, when it says "scripts, contents" and finally "not running" you know when upgrades are being rolled out
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• 3163[23:44:10] <annadane> it's something like, startup, induces, scripts/contents, some others, finishing with not running
• 3164[23:44:18] <annadane> indices*
• 3165[23:45:32] <jelly> I have it on good authority that some irresponsible mirror owners ignore all that.
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• 3171[23:49:26] <annadane> anyway, what jelly means by normal on sid, is that breakage is normal, deal with it, sid is the toy story character that breaks all the toys
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• 3184[23:58:45] <annadane> (but the benefit compared to, say, testing, is much faster fixes. that said, if you want 'just works', use stable)
• 3185[23:59:29] <annadane> if your sound still doesn't work with the fix then ask further on #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
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• 3187[23:59:44] <davide1> so youre saying if they named it rock or something the sound stack wouldn't have broken? :P
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