People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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35 [00:23:19] <octet> What is the best way to install the newest Nvidia drivers without breaking anything? The ones in the nonfree repo are not current, and I heard using .run files from Nvidia is prone to cause issues
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65 [00:44:26] <agio> hi, ive downloaded a file from here:
66 [00:44:28] <agio> replaced-url
67 [00:44:51] <agio> the file is: ranger_1.9.2-2.dsc
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71 [00:45:11] <agio> my question is how do I obtain the gpg key ID of the signer?
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105 [01:17:13] <at0m> octet: you apt install nvidia-detect, then run it and see what driver it suggests. then install that.
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107 [01:17:37] <at0m> agio: isn't that normal debian repo's key?
108 [01:18:30] <octet> at0m, yeah, nvidia-detect suggests debian's nvidia-driver package, which is not the most current sadly. I am afraid to use nvidia's .run file
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115 [01:23:03] <agio> at0m: ?
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126 [01:25:53] <agio> at0m: Im not sure what you mean?
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128 [01:29:54] <octet> is it okay if I use smxi and sgfxi?
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153 [01:57:38] <noahmg123> Ok... So I've gotten progress. An new error. When connecting to the access point I want to connect to it crashes my interface and gives the error 'supplicant-failed'
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155 [01:59:21] <mutante> noahmg123: afaict there is more than one supplicant. does it say which one?
156 [01:59:36] <mutante> wpa_supplicant?
157 [01:59:50] <mutante> 802.1x supplicant?
158 [02:00:20] <noahmg123> mutante: it's wpa_supplicant
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160 [02:00:45] <noahmg123> It failed and the interface goes down
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163 [02:01:26] <mutante> seems like you could use "wicd" as the alternative to that
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165 [02:01:51] <noahmg123> mutante: I could do that. But I would like to fix my NetworkManager install
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168 [02:02:01] <noahmg123> And wait
169 [02:02:05] <noahmg123> Hm
170 [02:02:34] <noahmg123> The NetworkManager log says wpa_supplicant stopped
171 [02:02:58] <noahmg123> But my gui WiFi settings say 802.1x supplicant failed
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173 [02:05:21] <mutante> "wpa_supplicant can be used for 802.11 wireless networks" doesn't have to be a conflict
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175 [02:06:09] <noahmg123> Ok. I'm still working on it, I might just reinstall Debian if I can't fix it
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177 [02:10:15] <mutante> noahmg123: anything in syslog about why it stopped?
178 [02:11:14] <mutante> how about the steps for GNOME and KDE on replaced-url
179 [02:11:25] <mutante> user account being member of the group etc
180 [02:11:28] <noahmg123> mutante: I figured out why. I had wicd and network manager running at the same time
181 [02:11:33] <mutante> ah:)
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183 [02:11:41] <noahmg123> Now it's back to the old behavior though
184 [02:11:45] <noahmg123> Old errors
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186 [02:12:09] <noahmg123> I'mma reinstall Debian
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204 [02:24:31] <gerforce> hello, systemd-sysctl.service has failed. Logs are "Failed to reset devices.list on /system.slice/…"
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210 [02:25:58] <Penguin> Am I missing something? My bug got marked as resolved, but I don't see an updated package nor any other indication that it's actually resolved.
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212 [02:28:08] <Penguin> I ran apt update and downloaded the package. It pulled in the same version number.
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215 [02:30:19] <Penguin> Well, nevermind. I couldn't see that there was a response saying how it was resolved. Now that I see the response, I'll have to figure out why I still have a problem.
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222 [02:33:14] <Penguin> Although, the actual problem was NOT resolved.
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311 [04:00:30] <karlpinc> Penguin: Unless it's a really serious bug it does not get resolved in the stable release. It gets fixed for the next release. You can try backporting your package. This might or might not be a good idea, for lots of reasons includig security support. Type "/msg dpkg ssb" for a message from the bot about backporting.
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352 [04:56:51] <zumba_addict> does anyone have experience installing Spinnaker on Debian?
353 [04:57:16] <rant> nope, nobody has ever done it.. you'll be the first
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355 [04:57:52] <zumba_addict> k :)
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357 [04:59:59] <rant> it was either that or play that tone that you get before that "The number you have dialed, is no longer in service.."
358 [05:00:54] <zumba_addict> :D he
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497 [07:25:05] <rabalaco> hello
498 [07:26:41] <rabalaco> Not sure if this is the right channel to ask, I've been trying to find out how to get 'rsync' preserve the destination's ownership/groups/permissions when overwriting existing files there. The destination is at a different system.
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500 [07:28:06] <Aaron> ask in #rsync
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518 [07:39:10] <well_laid_lawn> man rsync talks about the -p switch
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534 [07:53:50] <Amun_Ra> and -og
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614 [09:02:58] <rabalaco> I think that p and o ang g preserve the source ones... I want to keep the ones at destination when overwriting files...
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662 [09:39:54] <azamet> hi all
663 [09:40:03] <azamet> i did stopped an a hashcat wifi crack proggress: replaced-url
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758 [11:09:28] <dob1> hi, I would like to buy a barcode scanner (cheap one) but I am a bit worried about linux support. Does it need a specific driver?
759 [11:09:54] <dob1> or they works like a keyboard ?
760 [11:10:05] <fstd> those I know pretend to be a keyboard
761 [11:10:08] <JustASlacker> they usually register as keyboard, yeah
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764 [11:10:29] <JustASlacker> bluetooth barcode scanner can be tricky
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766 [11:11:04] <dob1> usb one, not bluetooth. So I can choose any of them and I can be sure it will work?
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772 [11:13:18] <fstd> based on experience with other gear, i'm sure there's at least one vendor who produces at least one barcode scanner that does something funky in a proprietary way
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774 [11:13:34] * JustASlacker nods
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776 [11:13:36] <fstd> i'd buy one, see if it works, and if it doesn't, return it
777 [11:13:40] <JustASlacker> aye
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780 [11:13:55] <JustASlacker> chances of it working are good tho
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783 [11:14:35] <dob1> thansk you
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796 [11:18:08] <sine0> guys im on stretch, when i update && upgrade irssi is not in the list and when i manually i get this:
797 [11:18:11] <sine0> irssi is already the newest version (1.0.7-1~deb9u1).
798 [11:18:21] <sine0> however their security release is 1.1.1
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800 [11:19:33] <fstd> what does apt-cache policy irssi say?
801 [11:20:29] <sine0> replaced-url
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803 [11:22:30] <fstd> then there's no irssi 1.1.1 package in your mirror, see replaced-url
804 [11:22:46] <fstd> so either your mirror is behind, or there's no 1.1.1 in stretch, i'd say
805 [11:23:00] <fstd> wait
806 [11:23:21] <fstd> the security repo isn't mirrored, so. where does the information about 1.1.1 being in stretch come from?
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809 [11:23:48] <rant> sine0: 1.1.1 is a development version, 1.0.7 is the latest stable version
810 [11:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1355
811 [11:24:31] <rant> sine0: the irssi team seems to be following the old school even/odd minor version scheme for stable/development.. irssi 1.1.1 and 1.0.7 were released on the same day
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813 [11:24:43] <rant> sine0: 1.1.1 is said to have all the fixes from 1.0.7
814 [11:25:38] <rant> also debian packages don't typically change version number, and just include fixes
815 [11:25:39] <sine0> right. well thanks for your time rant, as long as im uptodate.
816 [11:26:45] <rant> sine0: next time you should just ask if you're vulnerable or go by the CVE number rather than get people who dont know better chasing rabbits :P
817 [11:27:07] <sine0> fstd: thanks for your input
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819 [11:27:26] <sine0> rant: well i dont know about the process myself so forgive me
820 [11:27:30] <fstd> you're welcome
821 [11:27:34] <sine0> I dont understand the versioning
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823 [11:28:23] <sine0> you can understand teh lay perspective i have 1.0.7 and the channel says security update 1.1.1 its going to make me thinkg
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828 [11:29:27] <rant> sine0: the linux kernel used to work that way as well.. most projects use a major.minor.revision scheme and the minor number is even for stable and odd for development and they maintain two branches simultaneously so that they can make changes without affecting stable releases, many feel this is less likely to introduce security issues by maintaining one branch that gets only fixes, and another that gets
829 [11:29:34] <rant> new feature changes
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831 [11:29:58] <rant> I can understand it if you were not familiar with irssi's development methods and that this sort of thing is common
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833 [11:30:49] <rant> if you go to irssi.org it shows the releases on replaced-url
834 [11:31:22] <rant> there is no reason a version 1.1.1 would be containing changes from 1.0.7 rather than 1.1.0 unless they were seperate branches of development
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837 [11:32:39] <rant> well replaced-url
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841 [11:38:02] <rant> 2.4 and 2.5 I think were probably the last two linux releases to work that way.. now they work more like the way our debian development works.. with a mainline, stable, and LTS/EOL which is similar to our system in some ways which has a stable, testing, and unstable branch of development and LTS
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843 [11:39:37] <rant> if you heard same thing right now about linux 4.19 and were running 4.18.16 or 4.14.78 or 4.9.135 or 4.4.162, or 3.16.60, you wouldnt need to worry as all those are still on LTS and receiving fixes
844 [11:40:08] <rant> kinda helps to know about individual project's and how their development goes before you get all excited about something you hear in their development channel
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847 [11:41:31] <rant> similarly Stretch has linux 4.9.0 and yet its also recieving fixes, not from upstream, but from the Debian kernel maintainers and debian security team
848 [11:42:49] <rant> just elaborating here so you dont come in next freaked out cause latest 4.9.x linux is .135 and you're running .0 and think you missed out on 135 revisions :P
849 [11:44:06] <rant> when in reality you're just missing out on major feature and abi/api changes, not security fixes
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864 [11:54:47] <sine0> now i know why your called rant
865 [11:55:34] <sine0> appreciate it.
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890 [12:09:34] <rabalaco> Should I use "scp" instead of "rsync" if I want to preserve destination's owner and group when overwriting those files?
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898 [12:12:52] <radkos> hello fellas. Does someone knows how to set cpuid_mask to xen hypervisor using xen 4.8.4 (current debian stable) i tried with cpuid_mask_edx=%HEXADECIMAL VALUE% but didn't work
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900 [12:13:56] <rant> scp doesnt really address partials and incrementals
901 [12:14:03] <radkos> it seems that the hypervizor isn't accepting this command it accepts memory limit ... or if you don't know how to fix it how can i debug it
902 [12:14:17] <rant> rsync is just a beast that requires a lot of understanding of all its features
903 [12:14:19] <BtbN> Is there a known issue with git via ssh on Buster? I get "packet_write_wait: Connection to 192.30.253.113 port 22: Broken pipe" pretty much immediately when I try to do anything.
904 [12:14:30] <BtbN> It worked just fine on stretch.
905 [12:14:47] <BtbN> I can see in varbose ssh output that authentication succeeds, and then I immediately get that error.
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907 [12:15:48] <rant> BtbN: you are way OT, Buster support is on #debian-next on irc.oftc.net ( irc.debian.org ) and any testing/unstable user should know the answer to "Is there any known issue with...?" is check the BTS.
908 [12:16:02] <rabalaco> as said, I need to overwrite some files at destination but preserve the perm,owner,group of the existing files at dest. Dest is another system.
909 [12:16:13] <BtbN> On a whole other network oO
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911 [12:16:41] <BtbN> Well, there is nothing I can find about that issue anywhere, it's not tracked anywhere as far as I can tell.
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913 [12:17:12] <rant> BtbN: yes many year ago Debian project heads had a falling out with freenode, and all official debian channels are on irc.oftc.net where irc.debian.org now points... this is still the larger and older support community but we are pretty much stable support now, and all other debian channels are over on OFTC
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916 [12:17:42] <BtbN> Will need to talk to my network admin about that, fun.
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918 [12:17:57] <rant> BtbN: well as a testing user, you should always check the BTS and file a bug first before going any futher.. if you're not sure what to file a bug against or if it even is a bug or how to file a bug, you can stop off at a support channel or such
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922 [12:18:32] <BtbN> It just seems very unexpected to me that something so basic as git via ssh would be just broken, so I still assume it's something on my end
923 [12:18:41] <rant> if you arent yet savvy enough to do these things you should just run stable and get help from stable support with how to address any issues that make you think you need testing in the first place
924 [12:19:07] <shynoob> What's the closest keyboard to ThinkPad Lenovo L450... I'm times
925 [12:19:09] <rant> rabalaco: most classic way to preserve owner and transport things is simply to tar them and then transport.. the archival maintains those things
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927 [12:19:45] <shynoob> I'm trying to find.. keyboards in keyboard configuration
928 [12:19:56] <rant> rabalaco: if you're not concerned with partial or incremental stuff.. i.e. handling network interruption or incremental backups merging over time, then you dont specifically NEED rsync most likely
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930 [12:21:04] <rant> shynoob: are you not a native English speaker or are you just not making any sense?
931 [12:21:18] <shynoob> Not a native English speaker
932 [12:21:34] <shynoob> Im in configuring keyboard-configuration setup
933 [12:21:42] <rant> ok..
934 [12:21:53] <rant> in the debian installer?
935 [12:21:56] <shynoob> And all the keyboard models I se
936 [12:21:58] <shynoob> See
937 [12:22:03] <shynoob> Yeah
938 [12:22:26] <rant> shynoob: well this is solely about keyboard layout.. i.e. mine is English, US
939 [12:22:27] <shynoob> How do I find one which is closest to lenovo thinkpad
940 [12:22:40] <shynoob> How to pick keyboard model
941 [12:22:42] <rant> shynoob: its not about hardware per-se its about your language, country layout
942 [12:23:07] <shynoob> I bought this from US tho
943 [12:23:22] <rant> shynoob: so you want a standard english qwerty layout?
944 [12:23:26] <shynoob> Yeah
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947 [12:24:17] <shynoob> rant so among those keyboard models i see
948 [12:24:23] <shynoob> Which one should i select
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950 [12:25:13] <rant> I'm not certain what exactly you're looking at or what the options are.. if you tell me what you downloaded I can load it and see
951 [12:25:23] <rant> are you just using the standard netinstall?
952 [12:27:01] <rant> I mean for the most part all D-I are the same .. I'll boot this in my VM and see replaced-url
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954 [12:27:29] <rant> but the installer is WIDHE compliant (When In Doubt Hit Enter) chances are whatever was selected is what you wanted
955 [12:28:08] * rant boots the installer
956 [12:28:26] <shynoob> Not the net install
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958 [12:28:32] <rant> First I see select language, english..
959 [12:28:43] <shynoob> Ok
960 [12:28:58] <rant> then select location.. for me US.. then I see Configure the keyboard
961 [12:29:09] <rant> says keymap to use and American English is selected
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963 [12:29:22] <shynoob> Yeah
964 [12:29:44] <rant> and thats it.. has nothing to do with keyboard model.. just the language for the keymap
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966 [12:30:04] <rant> unless you were say french speaking and wanted to use a french layout, its irrelevant
967 [12:30:10] <shynoob> Nope
968 [12:30:20] <rant> and if your keyboard doesnt have french markings, youd have to know which keys were which
969 [12:30:21] <shynoob> It showed me all the company names
970 [12:30:24] <shynoob> Acer
971 [12:30:26] <shynoob> Ibm
972 [12:30:30] <shynoob> Generic
973 [12:30:33] <shynoob> Blah blah
974 [12:30:47] <rant> idk what you're using but I never saw that.. are you using expert install mode?
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976 [12:31:11] <shynoob> I think lol
977 [12:31:27] <rant> and obviously not an expert.. heh.. lemme boot expert and see
978 [12:31:42] <shynoob> I used dpkg-reconfigure
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980 [12:31:54] <rant> yes well even in expert it still only asks for language layout
981 [12:31:58] <rant> dpkg-reconfigure what?
982 [12:32:38] <shynoob> Keyboard-configurayion
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984 [12:32:56] <rant> ah ok..
985 [12:33:00] <rant> yeah that makes more sense
986 [12:33:35] <rant> ok well then heres what you need to know for this.. does your keyboard have a windows key then I assume? A number pad?
987 [12:33:49] <shynoob> Yeah
988 [12:33:56] <rant> mine is set to Generic PC 105 for what its worth and I'm on a Lenovo Thinkpad x240
989 [12:34:01] <shynoob> No numlock keys
990 [12:34:04] <rant> and all works fine
991 [12:34:07] <shynoob> Ok
992 [12:35:18] <rant> again debconf is also WIDHE compliant.. all those models it lists are the ones that deviate from standard layouts
993 [12:35:28] <shynoob> Oh
994 [12:35:29] <rant> most people will be generic 101, 102, 104, or 105 key
995 [12:35:48] <shynoob> Kk
996 [12:36:54] <rant> shynoob: replaced-url
997 [12:37:12] <rant> the 102, 104, 105 are just additions for things like windows key, menu key..etc
998 [12:37:53] <shynoob> Oh I see
999 [12:38:05] <shynoob> I just had issues wirh tht delete key home insert
1000 [12:38:10] <shynoob> Which are on top of backspace
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1002 [12:38:53] <rant> replaced-url
1003 [12:39:17] <rant> yes mine is similar I'm sure
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1005 [12:39:44] <shynoob> Kkk
1006 [12:40:05] <rant> replaced-url
1007 [12:40:39] <rant> insert is a Fn key for me Fn+End
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1010 [12:41:23] <rant> but I been using a lenovo kb4721 usb keyboard lately at my desk rather than the built-in keyboard
1011 [12:41:38] <rant> and this layout works well for both the internal and external keyboards
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1014 [12:43:27] <rant> replaced-url
1015 [12:44:01] <rant> having a 105 configured means it'll work on even keyboards without the 105keys.. i.e. the internal x240 keyboard lacks that menu key and numpad
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1017 [12:44:37] <rant> but if I configured it for 101 key I'd lose those extra keys.. safest option is PC 105, allows for all keys but wont mess up simply because the keyboard lacks some of them
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1026 [12:47:40] <shynoob> Hm
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1083 [13:32:44] <rant> anyone have an idea how to hook a script to mounting of an external luks drive? I'd like to have bind mounts setup along with the drive but since its USB and not always plugged in, and encrypted it requires a password.. so I really need those to be mounted at time of the cryptsetup & mount, usually done by my filemanager
1084 [13:33:32] <mawk> in udev
1085 [13:33:40] <rant> how would udev be aware of that?
1086 [13:33:53] <mawk> it gets notified when a device is plugged in
1087 [13:33:54] <rant> plugging it in, you cant bind mount to it, its encrypted still
1088 [13:34:09] <SimonB> stupid question of the day. configuring exim4 to authentciate to a smarthost on Stretch. Followed the docs here: replaced-url
1089 [13:34:14] <rant> the binds need to happen after its opened and mounted not when its plugged in
1090 [13:34:35] <SimonB> restarted services already
1091 [13:34:46] <mawk> yeah but you can hook your script right there
1092 [13:34:47] <mawk> and your script knows how to decrypt
1093 [13:34:59] <mawk> ah
1094 [13:35:14] <mawk> so you mount manually/whatever, and you want a hook right after that ?
1095 [13:35:20] <mawk> that doesn't sound easy
1096 [13:35:22] <rant> no, I'd need to use passwordless keys for that to work
1097 [13:35:26] <rant> and yeah, no crap :P
1098 [13:35:32] <mawk> maybe there's a proc connector to notify you
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1101 [13:35:49] <rant> idk.. may have to look further into it, thought maybe someone would know
1102 [13:35:55] <mawk> there is one for process events, so why not for mount events
1103 [13:36:00] <rant> using an additional passwordless key would work
1104 [13:36:12] <rant> since the rootfs is also encrypted.. its not really a big deal
1105 [13:36:23] <rant> to keep a key on the rootfs to unlock the drive on plugin
1106 [13:36:32] <mawk> otherwise you could also watch the parent directory of the mount point with inotify
1107 [13:36:37] <mawk> or the mount point itself
1108 [13:36:46] <mawk> you'll maybe get a notification after a mount
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1111 [13:37:35] <mawk> or just /dev/mapper
1112 [13:37:42] <mawk> after decryption it pops up there
1113 [13:38:08] <rant> my external HDD is 1TB, my internal SSD is only 256GB.. and I dont really NEED stuff like my 50GB or so of VMs on the internal.. but I do need them in my homedir.. heh.. so I need them bind mouted.. thats where the issue comes in
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1115 [13:38:23] <mawk> yes
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1118 [13:38:31] <mawk> well inotify seems the simplest solution
1119 [13:38:39] <mawk> can even be pure bash
1120 [13:38:45] <rant> you use it? I never have.. is there overhead there?
1121 [13:38:55] <mawk> no, it's not polling
1122 [13:39:06] <mawk> so no CPU overhead
1123 [13:39:20] <rant> well sounds like that or the passwordless key on the rootfs and udev are best two options then
1124 [13:39:26] <mawk> it's the kernel that notifies a process about events in a directory it's watching
1125 [13:39:40] <mawk> through the inotify fd
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1132 [13:47:28] <Sia-> hi, even the internal HDD isn't mounted but still spinning?!
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1135 [13:48:09] <Sia-> i'm using hdparm but after while start again automatically
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1139 [13:51:18] <peaceguy> hi all :)
1140 [13:51:38] <spackle259> hi peaceguy
1141 [13:51:40] <peaceguy> is it safe to disable lightdm and i get only the console login, and then reenable it as needed
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1143 [13:51:58] <peaceguy> hi spackle259 :)
1144 [13:52:34] <peaceguy> i was also looking to start graphical programs from the console but the methods i tried didn't work
1145 [13:52:42] <peaceguy> like specify display to use
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1148 [13:53:18] <spackle259> You can..last time i tried i had to find my monitor number. let me remind myself how i did it
1149 [13:53:28] <peaceguy> xrandr probably
1150 [13:53:35] <rant> I guess I need to test it and see if the binds will block unmounting and/or if they'll cause any issue if they're left dangling and maybe create the mountpoint and bind locations on the underlying filesystem so they remain after unmount
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1152 [13:54:15] <rant> either that or just rename the binaries, replace em with a wrapper script that handles binding and unbinding for that app.. but that creates issues for package upgrades
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1158 [13:57:19] <spackle259> peaceguy: ok so last time i tried i found under /tmp/X11-unix it specifies your display numbers. You can than use DISPLAY=:0 firefox replaced-url
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1161 [13:58:55] <peaceguy> cool thanks spackle259 :)
1162 [13:59:00] <peaceguy> hi grobi :)
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1165 [13:59:47] <peaceguy> /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 so X0
1166 [14:00:01] <spackle259> peaceguy: yep..
1167 [14:00:12] <peaceguy> thanks :)
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1169 [14:00:45] <spackle259> peaceguy: now like i said.. you will have to play with the DISPLAY variable... it will let you push a gui based application in that certain monitor you specify
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1174 [14:01:26] <peaceguy> ok thanks
1175 [14:01:32] <peaceguy> and i read it's not secure?
1176 [14:01:41] <peaceguy> it starts x but not some secure x things?
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1178 [14:01:56] <spackle259> peaceguy: huh? what do you mean?
1179 [14:02:28] <peaceguy> nothing much i am just asking is that safe like i used lightdm or something other
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1181 [14:02:45] <peaceguy> it's a safe valid method for starting programs?
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1185 [14:03:05] <spackle259> peaceguy: Safe in the sense of?
1186 [14:03:16] <peaceguy> identical to the default method
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1188 [14:03:30] <peaceguy> it starts all x things that are needed
1189 [14:03:32] <spackle259> peaceguy: default method?
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1191 [14:03:37] <peaceguy> like lightdm
1192 [14:03:45] <peaceguy> is the default way to do that
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1194 [14:04:30] <spackle259> peaceguy: for you to start an application which does not have gui based environment set up. it gives you access to that features.. im sure you have used x forwarding. in my openion its almost the same concept
1195 [14:05:06] <peaceguy> ok thank you :)
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1204 [14:09:20] <peaceguy> spackle259: so it's safe to do systemctl disable lightdm.service and then reenable it as needed?
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1207 [14:10:11] <spackle259> peaceguy: Let me see if i understand it correctly. You want to get rid of the desktop environment by disabling lightdm.service?
1208 [14:10:30] <peaceguy> yes
1209 [14:10:37] <peaceguy> to not have it autostart
1210 [14:10:49] <spackle259> peaceguy: if so I think so..as long as you are comfortable with terminal i dont see why not
1211 [14:10:59] <peaceguy> i am
1212 [14:11:02] <peaceguy> thanks :)
1213 [14:11:19] <peaceguy> i wanted to see if i could use terminal to start programs like that
1214 [14:11:36] <peaceguy> i mean i tried before but didn't manage to
1215 [14:11:45] <spackle259> peaceguy: but do take my openion with a grain of salt cos i havent gotten rid of my desktop environment before.. ive run gui application in a terminal only system
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1226 [14:14:16] <peaceguy> how do you run them in a terminal only system?
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1229 [14:15:20] <spackle259> peaceguy: terminal only system i ssh into with x forwarding turned on... for example : ssh -X username@ipaddress
1230 [14:15:37] <greycat> So you're actually running X.
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1233 [14:16:12] <peaceguy> ok
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1235 [14:16:17] <peaceguy> X on another system
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1237 [14:16:46] <spackle259> greycat: yep
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1239 [14:17:18] <spackle259> greycat: I guess I should try and see how it reacts when im on the system NOT VIA ssh but as regular
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1300 [14:45:00] <mawk> any luck rant ? I lost my backlog
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1406 [15:35:20] <rant> mawk: I hadn't tried it yet.. too groggy to trust myself right now :P
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1437 [15:42:54] <mawk> lol
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1477 [16:12:32] <inviz> hi, why new kernel would hang on "Loading, please wait..." and only would load in recovery mode?
1478 [16:12:39] <inviz> 4.9. can still load into old kernel 4.1
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1483 [16:14:10] <petn-randall> inviz: What OS are you running?
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1485 [16:14:25] <inviz> something based on Debian 8
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1489 [16:14:59] <inviz> hold on i will try without "quiet splash" and see whats up
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1491 [16:16:06] <shtrb> #somethingbasedondebian8
1492 [16:16:35] <greycat> !based on debian
1493 [16:16:35] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
1494 [16:16:37] <petn-randall> inviz: And what exactly?
1495 [16:16:48] <shtrb> thank you greycat
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1497 [16:17:11] <inviz> petn-randall, Univention
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1499 [16:18:17] <petn-randall> inviz: I'd ask their support then.
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1502 [16:19:28] <inviz> i was hoping for some kernel debug tips but okay
1503 [16:19:37] <inviz> still, thanks
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1557 [16:47:23] <noahmg123_> I reinstalled my Debian install because I was having some issues. Now, the issue has gone away, but some new issues have arose. I used to be able to two-finger click my touchpad for right click, but now that only registers as a click. A two-finger tap registers are a right click though.
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1577 [16:54:23] <relaxed> noahmg123_: maybe this well help: replaced-url
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1580 [16:58:16] <noahmg123_> relaxed: Thank you, I will take a look
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1603 [17:05:20] <bolovanos_> why is tar ignoring exclusion rule? "tar cvp Directory/ --exclude='$ExclusionForms' > directory.tar" where $ExclusionForms: "/home/bolovanos/Directory/Exclude/" | "/home/bolovanos/Directory/Exclude" | "Exclude"
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1605 [17:05:37] <greycat> a variable expansion only occurs in double quotes, not in single quotes
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1611 [17:06:38] <greycat> $ echo '$LOGNAME' "$LOGNAME"
1612 [17:06:39] <greycat> $LOGNAME wooledg
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1616 [17:07:11] <bolovanos_> sry $ExclusionForms is not real variable was just reffering what I have tested in those single or doble quotes of exclude switch
1617 [17:07:32] <greycat> *plonk*
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1620 [17:07:54] <bolovanos_> :)
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1627 [17:12:25] <peaceguy> hi all
1628 [17:12:34] <peaceguy> i did sudo systemctl disable lightdm.service
1629 [17:12:38] <peaceguy> how to reenable it again?
1630 [17:12:40] <peaceguy> thank you
1631 [17:12:50] <greycat> replace the word disable with the word enable
1632 [17:12:53] <peaceguy> but
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1634 [17:12:59] <peaceguy> error
1635 [17:13:01] <peaceguy> wait
1636 [17:13:06] <greycat> and then either reboot, or run "systemctl start lightdm" to start it
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1638 [17:13:22] <relaxed> bolovanos_: try, --exclude='./Directory/Exclude' or the relative path from where you're running tar
1639 [17:13:25] <peaceguy> ok
1640 [17:13:32] <peaceguy> i try it now thanks greycat :)
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1650 [17:16:35] <relaxed> bolovanos_: I read somewhere --exclude(s) need to come first in the command, so I've always done it that way
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1660 [17:20:29] <relaxed> just tested, that's not true *shakes fist at stackoverflow*
1661 [17:20:30] <bolovanos_> relaxed, hi, "." does not help, position of exclude was one of many permutations I have tested.
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1664 [17:23:22] <relaxed> this doesn't work? tar cvf Directory.tar --exclude="Exclude" Directory
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1672 [17:30:09] <peaceguy> i did DISPLAY=:0 firefox and it didn't work
1673 [17:30:15] <peaceguy> can't start firefox
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1675 [17:30:36] <greycat> what did it do instead?
1676 [17:30:40] <peaceguy> well
1677 [17:30:43] <peaceguy> nothing
1678 [17:30:51] <peaceguy> says can't open display
1679 [17:31:00] <greycat> did you get a shell prompt back, or is ... oh, you said "nothing" but that was a lie.
1680 [17:31:04] <peaceguy> i did
1681 [17:31:15] <greycat> Now suddenly it did something: it printed this error message.
1682 [17:31:16] <peaceguy> sorry
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1684 [17:31:25] <peaceguy> my memory
1685 [17:31:28] <peaceguy> is hazy
1686 [17:31:33] <peaceguy> i did that some minutes ago
1687 [17:31:35] <greycat> So, *why* can't it open that DISPLAY? Is it because there is no such DISPLAY currently?
1688 [17:31:37] <peaceguy> 50 or so
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1690 [17:31:44] <peaceguy> yes
1691 [17:31:48] <peaceguy> i want to start x
1692 [17:31:52] <greycat> Problem solved. Next!
1693 [17:31:54] <peaceguy> from console
1694 [17:31:58] <peaceguy> ?
1695 [17:32:05] <peaceguy> from console
1696 [17:32:08] <annadane> !enter
1697 [17:32:09] <dpkg> The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
1698 [17:32:09] <peaceguy> start program
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1716 [17:40:10] <bolovanos_> relaxed, replaced-url
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1729 [17:44:53] <bolovanos_> relaxed, thank you for assist
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1832 [18:28:06] <shynoob> When I try to run a command with root .. it says running as root will mess up file permissions. Aborting ..
1833 [18:28:47] <Kelsar> well, then you probably not run that command as root
1834 [18:28:54] <Kelsar> +should
1835 [18:29:07] <shynoob> Kelsar then ut says permission denied
1836 [18:29:08] <shynoob> Lol
1837 [18:29:19] <greycat> maybe you should say what the command is
1838 [18:29:20] <Kelsar> maybe start at the beginning...
1839 [18:29:21] <shynoob> It*
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1841 [18:29:25] <shynoob> Ok
1842 [18:29:40] <n4dir> no. don't say which command you use. Lets keep making wild guesses instead.
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1845 [18:29:44] <shynoob> So its a game package.. which I am building manually according to their manual
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1853 [18:30:38] <shynoob> Its running a file from the game package directory which i downloaded ... With the arguments.. --with-system-nvtt
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1855 [18:31:22] <shynoob> And neither can't i make that package
1856 [18:31:43] <n_1-c_k> bolovanos_: when using --exclude, I've found it to work when also using --directory=DIR plus the --exclude patterns being relative to DIR. HTH.
1857 [18:32:03] <Kelsar> shynoob: you managed to left out all the informational stuff
1858 [18:32:53] <shynoob> Kelsar i downloaded 0ad game files.. and using svn
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1860 [18:33:09] <shynoob> And now i had to make it
1861 [18:33:34] <shynoob> Can i send you a link? Kelsar of the instructions i went thru?
1862 [18:33:39] <greycat> Hmm, there appears to be a #0ad channel but it's "hidden". I can't do a /list #0ad or a /topic #0ad on it unless I join it first.
1863 [18:34:06] <shynoob> Find #0ad-dev
1864 [18:34:08] <shynoob> On
1865 [18:34:21] <shynoob> Quakenet
1866 [18:35:20] <shynoob> Debian doesn't have 0ad maintained.. or updated.. hence.. i have to install it manually.. coz i can't play it online.. multiplayer if i don't have the latest version
1867 [18:35:21] <jhutchins_wk> shynoob: Are you trying to run it in a graphical environment?
1868 [18:35:35] <greycat> Debian has a 0ad package. Which means Debian should also have the means to *build* the 0ad package. So maybe you should be pursuing it from that angle. "apt-get build-dep 0ad" (with deb-src lines).
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1872 [18:36:09] <annadane> i know 0ad is in backports
1873 [18:36:11] <shynoob> jhutkins_wk run it?
1874 [18:36:16] <greycat> ,v 0ad
1875 [18:36:17] <judd> Package: 0ad on amd64 -- wheezy: 0~r11863-2; jessie: 0.0.17-1; jessie-backports: 0.0.21-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.0.21-2; stretch-backports: 0.0.23-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.0.23-1+b1; sid: 0.0.23-1+b1
1876 [18:36:36] <shynoob> Oh
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1878 [18:37:27] * greycat wonders if "0.0.23" is the same as "Alpha 23 Ken Wood" which is what their web page says.
1879 [18:37:41] <shynoob> Will have to check that
1880 [18:37:52] <shynoob> How to run
1881 [18:37:53] <shynoob> Sec
1882 [18:37:56] <greycat> So, just installing the stretch-backports package may be the right answer.
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1886 [18:38:23] <shynoob> I'm new.. how do i do that greycat
1887 [18:38:30] <greycat> !debian-backports
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1889 [18:38:31] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
1890 [18:38:38] <greycat> start at replaced-url
1891 [18:38:41] <Blendie> are there any restricxtions on selling debian logo stickers?
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1893 [18:39:26] <annadane> what's the syntax for small dpkg corrections, "dpkg, <debian-backports> =~ jessie backports -> stretch backports or something
1894 [18:40:24] <greycat> dpkg, debian-backports =~ s/jessie/stretch/
1895 [18:40:24] <dpkg> that doesn't contain 'jessie', greycat
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1897 [18:40:46] <greycat> dpkg, backports.debian.org =~ s/jessie/stretch/
1898 [18:40:47] <dpkg> greycat: OK
1899 [18:40:51] <greycat> dpkg, backports.debian.org =~ s/wheezy/jessie/
1900 [18:40:52] <dpkg> greycat: OK
1901 [18:40:59] <greycat> !debian-backports
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1903 [18:41:00] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <stretch backports>) and oldstable (<jessie backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
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1907 [18:41:59] <jelly> dpkg, literal debian-backports
1908 [18:41:59] <dpkg> "debian-backports" is "<reply> see backports.debian.org"
1909 [18:42:11] <greycat> I did that one in /msg to cut down the noise a bit
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1913 [18:43:27] <jelly> and deprive annadane of a useful instruction?!
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1923 [18:48:36] <mason> Blendie: I think SPI owns the trademarks. It's worth contacting them.
1924 [18:48:38] <mason> !spi
1925 [18:48:38] <dpkg> Software in the Public Interest (SPI) is the umbrella organization for Debian and other Free Software projects. replaced-url
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1928 [18:49:04] <Blendie> thanks
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1943 [18:55:06] <tmroland> how do i install nvidia-driver in sid ? it says the package has no candidate
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1947 [18:55:56] <petn-randall> ,v nvidia-driver
1948 [18:55:57] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.130-1~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 384.130-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.87-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 390.87-2; sid/non-free: 390.87-2; experimental/non-free: 396.54-1
1949 [18:56:10] <petn-randall> tmroland: Do you have contrib/non-free enabled?
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1952 [18:56:49] <tmroland> yep
1953 [18:56:51] <tmroland> and apt update'd
1954 [18:57:26] <tmroland> i did apt install nvidia-driver but no go
1955 [18:58:00] <petn-randall> tmroland: I suggest you join the following channel and we continue there:
1956 [18:58:02] <petn-randall> !debian-next
1957 [18:58:02] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1960 [18:58:26] <tmroland> ok let me try
1961 [19:01:09] <tmroland> cant join the channel
1962 [19:01:19] <tmroland> im there on oftc
1963 [19:01:21] <greycat> reading.
1964 [19:01:21] <tmroland> and still cant get in
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1968 [19:02:23] <gonza_> whois gonza_
1969 [19:02:35] * petn-randall gives gonza_ a /.
1970 [19:02:41] <gonza_> JAJAJA
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1972 [19:02:48] <gonza_> THANKS petn-randall
1973 [19:03:00] <petn-randall> tmroland: Are you registered on OFTC?
1974 [19:03:08] <tmroland> sure
1975 [19:03:12] <tmroland> and identified as well
1976 [19:03:15] <tmroland> i did /join #debian-next after
1977 [19:03:17] <tmroland> no go
1978 [19:03:41] <greycat> are you sure you're doing that *on* oftc?
1979 [19:03:57] <greycat> if it's irssi, try /join -oftc #debian-next
1980 [19:04:11] <tmroland> i can screenshot to prove it, i got polari running on freenode and oftc same time
1981 [19:04:19] <tmroland> identified and registered on both and im now on both
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1983 [19:05:13] <petn-randall> tmroland: What does it say if you try to connect?
1984 [19:05:15] <joepublic> From oftc: "[tmroland] user has identified and verified with services"
1985 [19:05:28] <tmroland> says nothing, it just displays a empty window of debian-next
1986 [19:05:36] <tmroland> with nothing in it and unable to type either
1987 [19:05:57] <tmroland> probly a idiotic program this polari
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1990 [19:08:22] <tmroland> lol
1991 [19:08:34] <tmroland> i have non-fre in my apt sources instead of non-free
1992 [19:08:36] <tmroland> on 1st line
1993 [19:08:40] <tmroland> unstable main contrib non-fre
1994 [19:08:42] <tmroland> hah
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1996 [19:09:04] <tmroland> great time to get this thing running 3d
1997 [19:09:05] <SerajewelKS> i uninstalled freeradius-utils yesterday and now every apt/dpkg operation is failing with: "dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting: unknown user 'freerad' in statoverride file"
1998 [19:09:13] <SerajewelKS> google knows very little about this specific error
1999 [19:09:20] <petn-randall> !bat
2000 [19:09:20] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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2004 [19:09:32] <petn-randall> SerajewelKS: Can you provide *ALL* of the info above in a single paste? ^^^
2005 [19:09:42] <tmroland> E: The repository 'replaced-url
2006 [19:09:44] <tmroland> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
2007 [19:09:46] <tmroland> is this a issue?
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2010 [19:10:36] <petn-randall> We'll know when you have provided the info above.
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2012 [19:10:57] <petn-randall> Argh, nvm
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2014 [19:11:16] <SerajewelKS> petn-randall: replaced-url
2015 [19:11:18] <petn-randall> tmroland: unstable-updates doesn't exist.
2016 [19:11:46] <tmroland> so just remove teh "updates" strings on all repo lines?
2017 [19:11:48] <tmroland> as long as im in sid
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2019 [19:13:24] <SerajewelKS> petn-randall: i get this error message no matter what package i attempt to install
2020 [19:13:41] <SerajewelKS> the last thing i did was purge freeradius-utils followed by autoremove --purge
2021 [19:14:06] <SerajewelKS> which would explain the 'freerad' user, though i don't know what would be making dpkg choke on the absence of this user
2022 [19:14:30] <annadane> the only thing you need in sid is deb <mirror>/debian/ main contrib non-free
2023 [19:14:38] <annadane> no security.debian.org, no unstable-updates
2024 [19:14:49] <n4dir> minus the contrib non-free ...
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2026 [19:16:01] <annadane> well yes except tmroland is trying to install nvidia-driver, so...
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2028 [19:16:46] <n4dir> annadane: sure. superfluous comment by me anyway, it was very clear what you said. fingers are faster than the brain.
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2030 [19:17:11] <joepublic> be sure to install vrms to help with auditing free software.
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2032 [19:18:01] <annadane> a good mnemonic is you reduce the sources.list by 1 for every newer branch (disregarding experimental which isn't a full release anyway) - stable has all 3, testing you don't need buster/testing-updates (i think), sid is just the one line
2033 [19:18:26] <SerajewelKS> petn-randall: then there's this, but none of the given paths actually exist on the system: replaced-url
2034 [19:18:35] <annadane> at least i've been told testing-updates is essentially useless
2035 [19:19:00] <SerajewelKS> it's almost like dpkg forgot to remove these lines when it purged a package
2036 [19:19:20] <n4dir> annadane: i could never figure it out, so i just sticked to sid.
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2039 [19:20:02] <n4dir> well: or stable, of which the sources list is easy to find, say in the wiki.
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2041 [19:21:28] <annadane> also testing supposedly doesn't have support from the security team so i guess that also makes security.debian.org non applicable for testing
2042 [19:21:44] <annadane> so maybe it's 3 for stable 1 for testing 1 for sid, whatever
2043 [19:22:02] <n4dir> let the testing users worry about that :-)
2044 [19:22:33] <joepublic> I dunno, the vast majority of users upgrading to testing are from "stable"
2045 [19:22:37] <jhutchins_wk> tmroland: There was an additional step recently added to the registration process on oftc.net, a matter of confirming your registrtation. I don't remember the details, but you should be able to get help in the #oftc channel.
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2048 [19:22:58] <joepublic> tmroland is showing up as registered on oftc fwiw
2049 [19:23:07] <annadane> personally if i ran testing today i'd probably just take an existing sources.list and change stretch to buster regardless of what i just said, seeing as how no one has a clear idea anyway
2050 [19:23:11] <jhutchins_wk> tmroland: We know that joining the channel works if you're properly and registered and not banned because we do it on a daily basis.
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2052 [19:24:01] <greycat> In theory there is "testing security" support during parts of a freeze, but in practice there hasn't actually been anything *in* that repository in years.
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2074 [19:34:20] <ctcx> I set a directory like chmod 2770 folder, so permissions got like drwxrws---. Now I wanted to return it to normal, so tried chmod 0755, and I instead get drwx--S---.
2075 [19:34:34] <ctcx> Why is it? Why still the uppercase 'S'?
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2077 [19:35:20] <greycat> setgid bit is present but the expected x bit is missing
2078 [19:35:27] <greycat> this is covered in man ls, or info ls, or both
2079 [19:36:32] <greycat> Looks like it's only in the info page.
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2082 [19:37:12] <greycat> Also looks like you actually did chmod 700 not chmod 755.
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2085 [19:37:59] <ctcx> Ah, yes, my bad. It was chmod 0700
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2087 [19:38:23] <ctcx> But I thought this would certainly remove the setgid bit...
2088 [19:38:33] <greycat> For some inexplicable legacy reason, chmod 700 only affects the lower bits, not the setuid/setgid/sticky bits.
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2092 [19:39:47] <ctcx> OOhhh
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2095 [19:40:16] <ctcx> Yes, doesn't seem to be covered in man ls.....
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2097 [19:40:25] <petn-randall> Yes, "chmod 0700" and "chmod 700" do two very different things.
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2101 [19:40:55] <ctcx> Then how can one remove the setuid/setgid bits? chmod 0700 is clearly not working
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2104 [19:41:07] <ctcx> due to what has been already explained
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2108 [19:41:50] <greycat> petn-randall: actually, those are identical
2109 [19:42:29] <greycat> ctcx: chmod g-s thing; chmod 755 thing
2110 [19:42:44] <greycat> And yes, I despise this. I think it's the most idiotic thing.
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2112 [19:43:35] <SerajewelKS> "chmod preserves a directory's set-user-ID and set-group-ID bits unless you explicitly specify otherwise. You can set or clear the bits with symbolic modes like u+s and g-s, and you can set (but not clear) the bits with a numeric mode."
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2114 [19:43:57] <SerajewelKS> right in the chmod manpage :)
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2119 [19:47:10] <greycat> POSIX says that with an octal integer mode, for *regular files*, it will work as you expected, but "For other file types, it is implementation-defined whether or not requests to set or clear the set-user-ID-on-execution or set-group-ID-on-execution bits are honored."
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2121 [19:48:07] <greycat> Actually this language is really dense and hard to decipher... I need to read this a couple dozen more times.
2122 [19:49:30] <mutante> always use 4 digit numbers explicity .. and you should be in the clear
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2124 [19:49:39] <greycat> mutante: incorrect.
2125 [19:50:07] <greycat> chmod 755 and chmod 0755 are identical, and when used on a directory, they do NOT clear an existing setgid or setuid bit.
2126 [19:50:21] <greycat> Which is amazingly idiotic.
2127 [19:50:27] <jken> Hello, I have unattended upgrades running on my stretch system. I have certain packages pinned from stretch-backports (linux-image-amd64, firmware-intel-sound) and 2 from sid (pulseaudio, pavucontrol). At some point, unattended upgrades ran and broke my system. Most apt commands now give me this error: apt-get: relocation error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libapt-private.so.0.0: symbol _ZN3URIcvNSt7__cxx1112basic_stringIcSt11char_traitsIcESaIcEEEB5cxx11Ev
2128 [19:50:27] <jken> version APTPKG_5.0 not defined in file libapt-pkg.so.5.0 with link time reference. It seems like one of apt or libapt-pkg5 got updated without the other, and they have shared shared libs.. How can I avoid getting myself into this situation, and should I pin apt and libapt-pkg5.0 from sid?
2129 [19:50:49] <greycat> wooledg:~$ mkdir xyz; chmod 2755 xyz; chmod 0755 xyz; ls -ld xyz
2130 [19:50:49] <greycat> drwxr-sr-x 2 wooledg voice 4096 Nov 1 14:50 xyz
2131 [19:50:50] <mutante> eh,,ok.. that's a bit weid, yea
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2135 [19:53:08] <ctcx> Ok, so in short chmod has a looong lived bug/stupid feature involving the octal format, so better use the symbolic format
2136 [19:53:12] <greycat> Apparently POSIX allows it, and GNU coreutils chooses to do it this way. I haven't dug farther than that yet.
2137 [19:53:15] <ctcx> Did I understand well?
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2139 [19:53:33] <ctcx> ?
2140 [19:53:49] <greycat> ctcx: only on things that are not regular files (such as directories)
2141 [19:54:04] <tmroland> anyone got spotify-client installed on sid? i did all steps required but when running apt-get install spotify-client cant find the package (added repos, imported keys)
2142 [19:54:25] <ctcx> Aaahhh
2143 [19:54:29] <ctcx> Ok, thanks sir.
2144 [19:54:50] <petn-randall> !tell jken -about frankendebian
2145 [19:54:58] <petn-randall> jken: Totally expected. Don't mix releases.
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2147 [19:55:48] <jken> petn-randall, I know it's terrible, unfortunately I don't have a choice.
2148 [19:55:51] <greycat> Many people think "Oh, I can safely mix releases as long as I use this pinning thing. Then it will only inflict minimal damage." This is a fallacy.
2149 [19:55:58] <greycat> You always have a choice.
2150 [19:56:07] <joepublic> backports, sid, testing, stable, stuff from other distros like ubuntu, all one big happy family until you try to mix em all in sources.list
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2152 [19:56:26] <jken> Nope, I really don't. It's a company product not a personal system.
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2154 [19:57:14] <joepublic> tell em "tech support" said "don't do that." won't fix it but should be done just for the general principle of the thing.
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2161 [20:00:29] <no_gravity> For those of you who use irc in a terminal, do the animals overlap with the ascii chars for you? for ($𓃵=1; $𓃵<10; $𓃵++;)
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2163 [20:01:20] <greycat> I currently see rectangles in place of some of those glyphs. This could be because I haven't restarted this terminal after installing that ancient fonts pacakge yesterday, or it could be a hard limit of this type of terminal.
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2165 [20:01:57] <greycat> Or it could be that I just don't have any fonts containing these characters at all.
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2178 [20:06:30] <annadane> i just see the weird emoji rectangles, hexchat 2.12.4
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2180 [20:06:51] <annadane> oh, terminal. reading is important
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2182 [20:06:55] <annadane> never mind
2183 [20:07:01] <no_gravity> 😃
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2185 [20:07:12] <greycat> I do see the face there.
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2188 [20:08:35] <no_gravity> Yeah.
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2200 [20:10:31] <joepublic> For hexchat it may help to settings, preferences, appearance, general, font and pick something with more unicode characters. I see animals and smiley faces.
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2202 [20:10:49] <no_gravity> joepublic: Is hexchat a terminal app?
2203 [20:11:25] <joepublic> unless annadane is doing some really advanced hexchatting, I would doubt it.
2204 [20:11:34] <n4dir> no_gravity: apt-cache show hexchat. So: no.
2205 [20:11:43] <annadane> i'm doing advanced not-reading, which i admitted to a few lines above
2206 [20:11:55] <no_gravity> n4dir: Well, it's a terminal problem.
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2209 [20:12:11] <annadane> so is not reading
2210 [20:12:12] <no_gravity> The chars overlap in the terminal. In GUI apps they look fine.
2211 [20:12:36] <n4dir> no_gravity: sorry, i missed the context.
2212 [20:12:37] <greycat> You should try several different terminals too. xterm and urxvt and whatever else you're using.
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2214 [20:13:06] <greycat> handling of Unicode characters outside of the BMP is still quite hit-and-miss
2215 [20:13:18] <no_gravity> BMP?
2216 [20:13:21] <greycat> !Bmp
2217 [20:13:21] <dpkg> Beep Media Player (BMP) was an audio player based on <xmms>, removed from Debian post-Etch to resolve bug #422681. Its successor, Beep Media Player eXperimental (BMPx), was removed from Debian post-Etch to resolve bug #517588. Ask me about <audacious>.
2218 [20:13:27] <greycat> gah, not that, you silly bot
2219 [20:13:30] <joepublic> I didn't know that 𓃵 was a valid shell variable. That's pretty cool.
2220 [20:13:37] <greycat> replaced-url
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2222 [20:13:49] <no_gravity> joepublic: Yeah, if it only displayed correctly :)
2223 [20:13:51] <greycat> joepublic: it's not; he was using perl or something
2224 [20:13:58] <no_gravity> greycat: PHP
2225 [20:14:02] <greycat> fair enough
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2229 [20:15:13] <joepublic> yeah export 𓃵="FOO" fails
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2233 [20:16:25] <greycat> the main giveaway was using the $ in an assignment; $x=1 is valid perl/PHP but not valid shell
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2235 [20:16:53] <joepublic> now that you mention it, I was doing a bit of not-reading of my own. thanks.
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2253 [20:23:24] <grobi> hello, rangers!
2254 [20:23:36] <grobi> sorry
2255 [20:23:37] <mrig> Hello
2256 [20:24:08] <mrig> Is there any way that I can put libdrm >= 2.4.75 on my debian stretch install?
2257 [20:24:25] <greycat> ,v libdrm2
2258 [20:24:26] <judd> Package: libdrm2 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.4.40-1~deb7u2; jessie: 2.4.58-2; jessie-backports: 2.4.74-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.4.74-1; stretch-backports: 2.4.95-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.4.95-1; sid: 2.4.95-1
2259 [20:24:34] <greycat> stretch-backports has it
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2263 [20:24:46] <mrig> greycat, great thank you!
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2266 [20:26:19] <mrig> Ah, it says libdrm2 is already the newest version (2.4.74-1)
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2268 [20:26:38] <mrig> I need to add backports to the apt source list I think?
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2270 [20:26:46] <mspe> yes
2271 [20:26:55] <greycat> read the instructions (you have to use a -t option)
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2274 [20:27:06] <greycat> !stretch-backports
2275 [20:27:06] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See replaced-url
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2278 [20:29:01] <mrig> yes found the destructions page :)
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2281 [20:31:32] <jken> so is stretch backports not considered "mixing releases"?
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2283 [20:32:02] <greycat> correct
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2285 [20:32:26] <greycat> These packages were recompiled/relinked specifically against stretch libraries so that it will all work correctly.
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2287 [20:32:41] <jken> Well I wanna find a nice tall building to jump from.
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2296 [20:36:48] <jken> Well if backports are considered okay, the only package I pin from anywhere else is pulseaudio from sid.. I suppose i could avoid a frankensystem by compiling pulseaudio myself?
2297 [20:36:59] <greycat> ,v pulseaudio
2298 [20:37:00] <judd> Package: pulseaudio on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.0-6.1; jessie: 5.0-13; jessie-backports: 7.1-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 10.0-1+deb9u1; buster: 12.2-2; sid: 12.2-2
2299 [20:37:12] <greycat> ,checkbackport pulseaudio
2300 [20:37:13] <judd> Backporting package pulseaudio in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11).
2301 [20:37:19] <greycat> could be tough.
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2306 [20:37:59] <balance> hi so from what I saw I have to use a third party repo if I want to install php7.1 or 7.2. Now, is there some kind of list of trusted 3. party repos?
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2312 [20:38:57] <jken> greycat, tough, but better than an unsupportable mix of debian releases in your opinion?
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2314 [20:39:26] <bites> huh, what's debhelper-compat? debhelper 11 is in stretch-backports.
2315 [20:39:47] <jken> It's that all that is missing I am sure I can find a deb somewhere and have apt hold on it
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2318 [20:40:24] <greycat> I've literally never used pulseaudio. Ever.
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2320 [20:40:36] <jken> s/pulseaudio/anyotherpackage
2321 [20:41:22] <bites> balance: replaced-url
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2327 [20:42:47] <m_g_lewis> What is it called when you combine two or more network adapters for higher throughput? I want to google it...
2328 [20:43:06] <jken> m_g_lewis, teaming, or link bonding
2329 [20:43:08] <greycat> !Bonding
2330 [20:43:08] <dpkg> i guess bonding is configuring two NICs with same IP address, increasing throughput and providing failover. For setup instructions, see replaced-url
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2332 [20:43:20] <balance> bites, ok so I'll go with that then, thanks :)
2333 [20:43:53] <m_g_lewis> jken: Thanks!
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2339 [20:47:19] <tmroland> damn gnome animations are so slow on nvidia high end gpus
2340 [20:47:23] <tmroland> with proprietary driver
2341 [20:48:04] <mrig> I am working through install packages required for this mesa build, I have got stuck at wayland-client I need version >= 1.11, which I have but it is for some reason not being detected.
2342 [20:48:36] <mrig> This is the message given by the script : replaced-url
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2344 [20:49:24] <mrig> Do I need to look at the environment variables here perhaps?
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2363 [21:00:16] <mrig> Not entirely sure what wayland is or if debian uses it?
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2365 [21:01:01] <greycat> Apparently the next release will use it in some configurations.
2366 [21:01:11] <mrig> Right
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2368 [21:01:41] <mrig> So this is an xserver parallel?
2369 [21:02:40] <mrig> I am trying to set up to learn a little openGL 3 at the moment, that is the reason behind this escapade.
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2371 [21:03:29] <annadane> that uh, depends who you ask, it's either the best thing since sliced bread, or completely useless, or a replacement, or an alternative, or...
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2373 [21:03:57] <ham5urg> Hi all, I have a performance problem and unsure where I have to look. I'm using a CPU-mining software and with debian-stable it is significant slower than with Ubuntu 16.04. Ubuntu 18.04 is slow too. I have took a look at Meltdown and Spectre. But I use AMD Cpus, no Meltdown bug is affecting my machine. I disabled SpectreV2 via boot append line. But no effect. What could I do to use Debian stable?
2374 [21:03:57] <n4dir> ignore if you build a deb package, but did you run ./autogen.sh? If not, give that a try before running ./configure. Also try ./configure --help; grep for the upper-case variables in your error paste. If you search for PKG_CONFIG_PATH here: replaced-url
2375 [21:04:05] <n4dir> mrig ^^
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2377 [21:04:11] <mrig> well I have the package but the setup script is not detecting it for some reason.
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2379 [21:05:02] <greycat> ham5urg: make sure the appropriate non-free firmware is installed, if your GPU uses that
2380 [21:05:16] <greycat> it's quite possible that ubuntu includes that by default, whereas Debian would not
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2384 [21:05:27] <ham5urg> how can I do that?
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2386 [21:05:58] <mrig> not sure if it has got to the ./autogen.sh script yet I will output the details to a file to check
2387 [21:06:03] <n4dir> mrig: couldn't really figure out what exactly it does, but "autoreconf -fi" ; before ./configure sometimes sorts things for me.
2388 [21:06:06] <ham5urg> greycat: It's not about GPU but CPU.
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2392 [21:06:45] <greycat> well, you can start with "dmesg | grep -i firmware" and see if any is missing
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2397 [21:08:25] <lavenders> where does make store the binaries by default?
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2400 [21:08:44] <greycat> make does not store binaries
2401 [21:08:44] <lavenders> its a mess to google that name and i cannot find any rec on the off page
2402 [21:08:51] <lavenders> like replaced-url
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2405 [21:09:08] <greycat> If a given Makefile has an "install" target, then running "make install" would do whatever that target says to do.
2406 [21:09:30] <lavenders> make does compile it while make install only copys it to the destinaion, i dont want to interweave it
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2409 [21:09:55] <greycat> If you ran "make install" on some project's build directory, then it would *probably* put things wherever you told ./configure --prefix to be, or /usr/local/ if you did not specify a --prefix.
2410 [21:10:16] <lavenders> ive run make, it gcc a lot alias built the ibnaries, but where are they stored, no i just ran make
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2412 [21:10:39] <n4dir> lavenders: i would assume in the current working directory.
2413 [21:10:43] <greycat> Wherever your project puts them. Could be right where you are now, or in some build subdirectory, or anywhere.
2414 [21:11:18] <lavenders> ok, this makes make very hard, is there a make doc to show how it curetnly is configured for this repo?
2415 [21:11:33] <greycat> The Makefile contains the instructions that make uses.
2416 [21:11:44] <mrig> n4dir you add to the autogen.sh file?
2417 [21:12:07] <lavenders> ok thank you
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2422 [21:13:26] <n4dir> mrig: i was only shooting ideas, solutions i ran in the last weeks. I can't tell you much more. just run autogen.sh before configure, then try autoreconf -fi before configure. From the site i linked it sounds a lot as if you could just add the PKG***PATH as an argument to ./configure. Look there, looks good to me.
2423 [21:13:38] <ham5urg> greycat: debian-stable shows "microcode : 0x600063d" and ubuntu16.04: "microcode : 0x600063e"
2424 [21:13:58] <ham5urg> Is it possible to change the microcode which the kernel loads?
2425 [21:14:15] <ham5urg> But not to change the supported kernel.
2426 [21:14:55] <greycat> there are intel-microcode and amd64-microcode packages
2427 [21:15:14] <mrig> n4dir, I'm quite new to this, following these instructions to get the latest mesa to build and link to whilst learning : replaced-url
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2429 [21:16:07] <mrig> Using the second set of instructions as the meson package will not build in the first instance.
2430 [21:16:10] <n4dir> mrig: and if you go for a deb package, then you can ask in #packaging . mrig quite new too, and i just use the sledgehammer method. trying back and forth. autogen.sh or autoreconf sorted quite a few problems for me though.
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2432 [21:16:49] <n4dir> mrig: i told you all i can say (which already is over my head). good luck.
2433 [21:17:07] <mrig> Ok Thank you!
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2452 [21:23:13] <n4dir> oh, one last thing: if you got your packagename you can look at slackbuilds.org, sometimes they have a Slackbuild and you can look how they do it. packagename+linux from scratch might also have solutions. also arch or gentoo (i usually go for the first too though). mrig ( i looked at slackbuilds, no mesa there, linux from scratch is here: replaced-url
2453 [21:23:19] <n4dir> it helps.
2454 [21:23:21] <n4dir> mrig: ^^
2455 [21:23:43] <ham5urg> I've found this replaced-url
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2457 [21:23:55] <greycat> Install the package, reboot.
2458 [21:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1401
2459 [21:24:26] <greycat> Installing the package will rebuild the initrd image for each of your kernels.
2460 [21:24:56] <mrig> n4dir thanks for that I will have a read, all good learning experiences.
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2462 [21:25:14] <n4dir> yup, but tough stuff, as far it's me.
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2465 [21:26:47] <ham5urg> greycat: I will try, I hope this works with dracut too as I need a dracut-generated kernel.
2466 [21:27:15] <greycat> I have no idea.
2467 [21:27:56] <greycat> Ultimately, you'll just want to make sure the microcode files are inside the initrd that you end up using. However you achieve this.
2468 [21:29:05] <greycat> replaced-url
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2470 [21:29:28] <greycat> and that's about where my knowledge ends, on this topic
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2478 [21:32:44] <ham5urg> greycat: this will helps. nevertheless, thanks a ton.
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2507 [21:49:06] <mrig> Oh dear seems as though doing this has screwed up my SDL2 instillation.
2508 [21:49:33] <mrig> Can altering packages to build another do this in this way?
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2510 [21:50:03] <greycat> I can't even parse that question.
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2516 [21:51:21] <mrig> Curious the headers dont seem to be in /usr/include at all
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2524 [21:53:54] <mrig> Sorry I am not being very succinct, in attempting to create an environment in which I can build the mesa package, I seem to have disrupted SDL2, I can no longer compile the files that were previously compiling as the SDL2 header is not being found.
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2531 [21:54:43] <mrig> I was wondering if my efforts to compile mesa have disrupted either a path or the actual files
2532 [21:54:54] <greycat> ... reinstall the libsdl2-dev package?
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2534 [21:55:28] <mrig> I will try that now, thanks
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2551 [21:58:54] <mrig> Yes this has broken some dependencies replaced-url
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2554 [22:00:51] <spackle259> /window merge
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2591 [22:16:17] <rant> spackle259: no merge for you!
2592 [22:16:50] <spackle259> lol
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2633 [22:42:25] <mrig> Ah still a lot to learn ...
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2637 [22:44:50] <rootr1b4l> I am trying to configure RAID with Armbian Stretch but It seems there's no RAID module in the Kernel.
2638 [22:45:24] <joepublic> wonder what the armbian folks will say when you ask them.
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2640 [22:45:42] <mrig> Is there a way to remove a package installed using backport?
2641 [22:45:43] <BCMM> !armbian
2642 [22:45:43] <dpkg> Armbian is a project that has pre-compiled custom Debian and Ubuntu installer images for <ARM> boards, and a small package repository with kernels, drivers, and utilities which are supported in #armbian. It is not a complete distribution, and uses unmodified Debian or Ubuntu official package repos. General end-user support for the Debian image installations: #debian, kernel/hw/installer/building questions: #armbian.
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2645 [22:46:04] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: ^ seems like a kernel question
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2648 [22:46:41] <joepublic> I have hit problems trying to use btrfs and even ext4 on some of the arm frankenkernels.
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2650 [22:46:50] <mrig> Or perhaps to reinstall the older version. Seems that remove is not an option when there are dependancies?
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2653 [22:48:11] <rootr1b4l> dpkg: I'll ask for help in Armbian channel.
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2655 [22:48:12] <dpkg> rootr1b4l: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
2656 [22:48:41] <joepublic> score one for dpkg and his friend alan turing
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2658 [22:49:57] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: (fyi, dpkg is the channel's pet bot)
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2660 [22:50:05] <BCMM> dpkg: thanks!
2661 [22:50:05] <dpkg> bitte, BCMM
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2663 [22:50:21] <rootr1b4l> BCMM: I've tested RAID in my computer that is running Debian 8, and I realized that in Armbian there aren't the same Kernel modules.
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2670 [22:51:59] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: yeah, as dpkg mentioned, armbian uses standard debian userland but mostly custom kernels
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2672 [22:52:09] <mrig> There must be ... oh build-dep looks interesting.
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2679 [22:53:12] <VlanX> Hello guys! Do you know why I can only use @reboot parameter in crontab as root and not as normal users?
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2681 [22:54:10] <joepublic> My first guess would be environment-related, such as the thing you are trying to run @reboot not being in the path nor specified /by/a/full/path
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2683 [22:54:46] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: a lot of ARM SoCs never get upstream kernel support
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2685 [22:55:01] <joepublic> s/never/never\ will/g
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2687 [22:55:11] <VlanX> joepublic: I've specified the full path, but now that I tink about it I'm not sure about user permissions
2688 [22:55:15] <VlanX> lets check that
2689 [22:55:24] <joepublic> happy to emulate a rubber duckie.
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2691 [22:55:42] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: they just get some kernel patches, published by the manufacturer when the devices is released and then never updated
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2694 [22:56:14] <joepublic> or they get kernel support as long as you don't want any sort of display and you're happy using a serial terminal.
2695 [22:56:19] <BCMM> rootr1b4l: so you end up stuck on some ancient kernel version forever if you want to support the built-in peripherals (or in some cases if you even want to boot at all)
2696 [22:56:40] <aloo_shu> mrig dpkg -r <pkg name> (or dpkg -P <pkg> for complete removal inc. config) should remove pkgs regardless of origin. after that, apt-get autoremove will uninstall dependncies that are not needed anymore. If the pkg refuses to uninstall, that's typically due to *dependants*, e.g. pkgs that are 'over' the pkg you intend to remove, and depend on them. You'd have to remove all dependants in order to cleanly remove the pkg you want to remove
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2701 [22:57:53] <aloo_shu> s/them/it
2702 [22:58:20] <mrig> aloo_shu, If I want to replace them with older versions, can I replace and fix or retie the dependencies?
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2704 [22:58:51] <VlanX> joepublic: yep, it wat that easy :D
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2707 [22:59:09] <mrig> will apt know about it if I do it with dpkg? Is that linkage automatically kept uptodate?
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2709 [22:59:30] <joepublic> apt is a frontend to dpkg; it will know.
2710 [22:59:33] <aloo_shu> mrig: ask someone else for that. it can be done, but usually isn't recommended
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2712 [23:00:09] <mrig> Yes I think I might need to reinstall now, not sure though.
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2714 [23:00:35] <rootr1b4l> BCMM: Thanks!
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2717 [23:00:47] <joepublic> mrig, that's almost never a bad idea
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2719 [23:01:32] <mrig> I would like to get to a point where it is not required, seem to have found a tricky area to investigate though.
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2721 [23:02:08] <aloo_shu> mrig or spend some time reading dpkg & apt man pages, with / you can enter a search term (e.g. downgrade), n goes to next occurence. not a beginners task, manually downgrading
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2724 [23:03:31] <mrig> right, yes seems complicated, I need to learn about this though; To better understand and use the linker when working with C and c++
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2728 [23:05:29] <aloo_shu> mrig: but *maybe* it can be done automatically, since by default, installs from -backports do not happen except with an extra argument, so maybe a blanket pkg ubgrade will 'upgrade' pkgs back down to the regular repos, but better ask someone who doesn't guess, but knows
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2731 [23:05:55] <mrig> I would like to update certain packages if I can but only to build for a specific package, that I can link to. I would like to leave my working distro as a stable debian.
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2734 [23:06:18] <mrig> aloo_shu: ah, well I was looking for this type of command if it exists.
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2737 [23:08:16] <mrig> yes I used the apt-get -t flag to install them. Found myself half way to being able to build the desired package and without the required packages for some other previously working libs :\
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2742 [23:09:00] <mrig> aloo_shu, do you mean just apt-get upgrade?
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2745 [23:09:52] <LittleHairyRat> Hi! I just installed Stable and added the backports repo. Is there any contraindication to doing a apt upgrade -t stretch-backports?
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2774 [23:29:25] <aloo_shu> mrig just ap-get upgrade is worth a try, or study man apt-get if there needs to be some explicit flag, like --allow-downgrades (I'm making this up, cannot check myself atm, not a debian device)
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2778 [23:32:00] <andril> anyone have an invite to #debian-next
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2781 [23:33:30] <joepublic> i don't see you over there unless your nick is different.
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2793 [23:42:39] <format_c> Has anybody made experience with installing anbox on a Debian box?
2794 [23:43:11] <joepublic> the answer to your question is almost certainly yes.
2795 [23:43:45] <format_c> I saw it's available in stretch-backports, but trying to install draws conflicts with the libegl1 / libegl1-mesa library which is a dependency from xorg / wayland
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2800 [23:46:19] <Unit193> andril: #debian-next is on OFTC, not freenode.
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
#debian Freenode IRC channel closed on 2021-06-01
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