People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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2 [00:00:31] <ctcx> Ssh-ing one same server with more than one user at the same time, can this be ever risky?
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6 [00:02:34] <somiaj> shellhost: it depends what pci device is having trouble. If it is a device you aren't using, maybe just disable it in the firmware.
7 [00:02:49] <Thedarkb-M90> ctcx, I can't really see how it could be.
8 [00:02:57] <Thedarkb-M90> I do it all the time without issue.
9 [00:03:03] <somiaj> ctcx: what do you mean by that? you mean having multiple connections between one computer and another with multiple users?
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11 [00:04:47] <Thedarkb-M90> I run some game server s and at one point myself and one of my moderators were connected to the same tmux at the same time.
12 [00:04:53] <Thedarkb-M90> That was a bit interesting to say the least.
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16 [00:05:34] <ctcx> .....
17 [00:05:42] <ctcx> oh, f**k with me...
18 [00:05:49] <ctcx> I meant,
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20 [00:06:17] <ctcx> Ssh-ing one same server with very same user *multiple* times at the same time, can this be ever risky?
21 [00:06:40] <ctcx> I.e., ssh to a server with "myUser", but from more than one client at same time
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23 [00:07:22] <somiaj> in general no, but you could have problems where one session opens a file and starts to edit it, another session opens the file and edits it, then quits, then the first session saves its edits, thus erasing all the eddits from the other session.
24 [00:07:41] <Thedarkb-M90> Most editors will warn you of this though.
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27 [00:08:19] <somiaj> yea, just giving an example of something that could go wrong, if trying to edit the same file from multiple locations at once (or within a small time frame)
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29 [00:08:57] <somiaj> but this is no different than having multiple xterms opened on your linux desktop all of the same user.
30 [00:09:30] <somiaj> so it isn't the multiple ssh sessions that are the issue.
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32 [00:11:02] <Thedarkb-M90> Hmm, I used to use Konversation before they went 64 bit only as far as official builds were concerned.
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36 [00:12:34] <ctcx> So, if only using scp within this situation, really not much big risks except for overwriting one same file because of equal filename?
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38 [00:13:03] <Thedarkb-M90> Quit worrying, it's all okay.
39 [00:13:33] <somiaj> ctcx: there isn't any additional risk than is already there of being able to have multiple logins at the same time.
40 [00:13:53] <somiaj> though as Thedarkb-M90 pointed out, if you have multiple people using the same user, it could get intersting trying ot use the same tmux session.
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44 [00:14:21] <Thedarkb-M90> It didn't end badly or anything.
45 [00:14:30] <Thedarkb-M90> We just ended up trying to type in a server console at the same time.
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49 [00:15:37] <ctcx> "Server console"?
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51 [00:16:00] <ctcx> ... in this hypothetical scenario the server would be command line only...
52 [00:16:28] <somiaj> ctcx: in this case they were using tmux (which can have multiple clintes attach to at the same time) both trying to type into the same server console for the game they were running.
53 [00:16:44] <somiaj> which may come as a surprise until you realize what is going on
54 [00:17:12] <shellhost> somiaj: this is interesting, I dug deeper into forums and on arch forums and someone was advised to enable the pcie_aspm=off flag on boot. It fixed my issue
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56 [00:17:15] <somiaj> but this is rare, in your case, there I would say there is little risk, or at least no additional risk than already exists in a multiuser/login enviorment.
57 [00:17:42] <ctcx> Oh
58 [00:18:13] <somiaj> shellhost: Nice. I wasn't sure what exactly was failing, but it doesn't surprise me that there are issues with acpi or the old aspm features. These don't seem to be correctly implemented in a standard method on many systems.
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65 [00:19:57] <ctcx> somiaj: the thing is, I'd like to setup a "file server" on Linux for use for Windows clients. Just *no* Samba, because I need server to be accessible from outside LAN.
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67 [00:20:10] <ctcx> Best option I thought in was scp.
68 [00:20:24] <ctcx> Just changing sshd port and blocking root access.
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70 [00:20:51] <somiaj> ctcx: what clients are you needing to get the files? And will it just be you? A set of known users? Or do you need some sort of guest access?
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72 [00:21:01] <somiaj> if all you need to do is share (not upload) http is a nice way to do that.
73 [00:21:20] <somiaj> sftp (via scp, rsync, or winscp on windows) is a nice way to share files over the ssh server, and cna work just fine.
74 [00:21:30] <somiaj> there is also sshfs (a way to mount remote file system over ssh) on linux.
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78 [00:22:02] <shellhost> somiaj: interesting, will keep this flag on forever now. Really want to thank you for the help, this was bugging me for quite some time.
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83 [00:25:08] <ctcx> somiaj: the -Windows- clients need to upload files to the server, just that. My initial "multiple same user" doubt was because, clients are spread over several different offices, each office with more than one client obviously.
84 [00:25:10] <ctcx> And I thought it'd be a real pain in the ass to add *all* freaking individual users to the file server; instead thinking about assigning only one user per "office", where all members of one office would use the same user.
85 [00:26:15] <somiaj> I would set up each person as an indviduial user so you can track access. But yea, having 'trusted' users with ssh permisions to use sftp to be able to store/access files is a way that could work and is quite secure.
86 [00:26:40] <somiaj> I think there is also a way to make ssh only allow certain users sftp access only (no actual shell access) which gives a little more security.
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88 [00:28:07] <squarecircle> Ohai, where should I try debugging, when the framebuffers are actually there and the max_resolution also is correct, but xrandr does not show me providers and gnome does not show additional screens?
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90 [00:32:44] <wonderworld> ctcx: why not nextcloud?
91 [00:32:49] <wonderworld> or samba and vpn
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93 [00:33:41] <wonderworld> i guess nextcloud would be the most simple thing to setup. clients just need a browser
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96 [00:34:38] <wonderworld> they wouldn't even need any kind of account. you can set up a public folder where everyone can upload stuff to. contents of the folder can be invisible for users.
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106 [00:36:50] <wonderworld> plus it's very simple to deploy. if you have experience with it, it's done in 10 minutes, otherwise 2 hours.
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108 [00:38:35] <ctcx> somiaj: would you think nextcloud would make my initial idea look like a retarded and invalid solution? Hope not..... Nextcloud sounds good indeed, though a bit more elaborated...
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118 [00:45:13] <wonderworld> is scp built into windows explorer?
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120 [00:46:13] <wonderworld> if not you would have to install and maintain additional software on all workstations, teach users how to use it, update it, etc. headache in my oppinion
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125 [00:48:43] <ctcx> wonderworld: that's what all of them do anyways, so the headache wouldn't be too much different
126 [00:48:57] <wonderworld> hehe ok :)
127 [00:49:20] <ctcx> (And I have generally preferred the portable version of winscp)
128 [00:49:59] <ctcx> somiaj: so using a same user to connect a server "multiple" times at same time is not that invalid in the end?
129 [00:50:02] <ctcx> ??
130 [00:50:04] <wonderworld> i couldn't live without sshfs
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136 [00:55:28] <squarecircle> Ohai, where should I try debugging, when the framebuffers are actually there and the max_resolution also is correct, but xrandr does not show me providers and gnome does not show additional screens?
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196 [01:44:35] <Gr1zzly> Hello, do anyone knows how to recover a broken install when recovery mode fails?
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198 [01:45:32] <Gr1zzly> Like, how could I repair packages from a live usb?
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201 [01:46:47] <themill> what needs repairing?
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203 [01:47:16] <Gr1zzly> The packages I guess
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206 [01:47:57] <themill> we're not going to get anywhere without some sort of information
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212 [01:51:32] <Gr1zzly> themill, well I was installing nvidia drivers with aptitude and when I reboot my install was totaled
213 [01:51:46] <Gr1zzly> it was on a clean install
214 [01:51:54] <Gr1zzly> gonna check the logs
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220 [01:59:29] <kexec> hello, please how to force debian installer to NOT install any bootloader?
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231 [02:06:11] <Gr1zzly> Anyway themill, do you have an idea how I could purge a package from a live usb?
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239 [02:10:49] <karlpinc> kexec: Go into expert mode when installing and don't install a bootloader.
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285 [02:40:22] <X-Kent> I am a bit confused with package naming, I need "libgcc++:i386", on one VPS it's available (linode.com) on another, it says cannot find any package by this regex (scaleway). Both are bionic(18.04). What name should I use ?
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290 [02:47:22] <themill> X-Kent: sounds like you need to ask #ubuntu about your real problem
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294 [02:48:05] <X-Kent> thought maybe someone here will be familiar with these naming conventions
295 [02:48:23] <themill> the naming convention is not the issue
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431 [04:55:40] <TyrfingMjolnir> Which package to install to have dig?
432 [05:00:23] <TyrfingMjolnir> dnsutils? Or is that old?
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437 [05:05:39] <debsan> TyrfingMjolnir, yes dnsutils
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443 [05:15:24] <TyrfingMjolnir> man ss not found?
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445 [05:16:29] <TyrfingMjolnir> I did install bind9
446 [05:16:54] <TyrfingMjolnir> and added an entry in /etc/bind/db.local
447 [05:17:05] <TyrfingMjolnir> I'm not able to dig @127.0.0.1 replaced-url
448 [05:17:28] <TyrfingMjolnir> How do track down this issue?
449 [05:18:55] <themill> (ss is in iproute2)
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456 [05:34:08] <TyrfingMjolnir> What to make of this? bind9 tail -f /var/log/syslog: replaced-url
457 [05:37:15] <PaddyF> TyrfingMjolnir: do you follow a guide or what do you attempt to do?
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482 [06:00:47] <TyrfingMjolnir> PaddyF: I did apt-get install bind9, increased the serial of /etc/bind/db.local and added replaced-url
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487 [06:04:16] <TyrfingMjolnir> PaddyF: I did apt-get install bind9, increased the serial of /etc/bind/db.local and added replaced-url
488 [06:04:24] <TyrfingMjolnir> I also added the -4 option
489 [06:04:36] <annadane> if i edit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf (and set flat volumes to 'no'), what do i need to do to have it take effect immediately?
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491 [06:04:54] <annadane> like for instance .bash_aliases, you first need to "source .bash_aliases"
492 [06:05:20] <TyrfingMjolnir> to /etc/default/bind9; this now reads OPTIONS="-u bind -4"
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498 [06:12:00] <TyrfingMjolnir> annadane: Don't you have to do something like /etc/init.d/pulseaudiodaemon restart ?
499 [06:12:11] <TyrfingMjolnir> I'm not sure the name of the demon though...
500 [06:12:18] <annadane> i can try it
501 [06:12:55] <TyrfingMjolnir> ls -1 /etc/init.d
502 [06:13:23] <annadane> no pulse anything, just alsa-utils
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504 [06:13:47] <annadane> whereis pulseaudio: pulseaudio: /usr/bin/pulseaudio /usr/share/pulseaudio /usr/share/man/man1/pulseaudio.1.gz
505 [06:14:18] <TyrfingMjolnir> I have no idea about multi media stuff, I use vim/tmux/nodejs/apache/nginx
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507 [06:15:20] <themill> annadane: is pulseaudio actually running as root or as your user (the latter is normal)
508 [06:15:23] <annadane> oh. okay. arch wiki saves the day again
509 [06:15:35] <annadane> themill, i don't know. just the default
510 [06:15:47] <themill> well that's something you can check yourself!
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512 [06:16:56] <annadane> according to ps aux, my user
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519 [06:25:16] <annadane> i gotta go to bed, i'm completely exhausted, ping me with further info and i'll read it tmrw
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521 [06:27:26] <themill> annadane: 'pulseaudio -k' should be enough
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551 [06:58:34] <greylinensuit_> apt-secure giving anyone else errors this week?
552 [06:59:40] <greylinensuit_> getting errors on official repos for stretch testing
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554 [07:00:15] <greylinensuit_> thx
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557 [07:04:01] <greylinensuit_> also 2) steps to diagnose DNS resolve errors? not using dnsmasq or resolvconf pkg, but resolv.conf is read in /etc
558 [07:06:45] <greylinensuit_> ifconfig pulls up local routing info which looks good, as do settings in network-manager (i.e. some values entered manually but defaulting to auto)
559 [07:06:55] <muxed> frequent or randomly?
560 [07:07:12] <greylinensuit_> thx. sorry, on mobile app irc
561 [07:08:00] <greylinensuit_> DNS resolve issue is frequent and (seemingly) random
562 [07:08:47] <greylinensuit_> happened on other debian-based distros too
563 [07:08:53] <muxed> what have you tried?
564 [07:11:31] <greylinensuit_> plugging in values manually via GUi, entering basic values defaulting or falling back to auto in /etc/network/interfaces, double-checking pkgs installed, purging proxy pkgs, reverting MAC from random to preserve, reboot, etc.
565 [07:12:28] <muxed> changed dns? ping/traceroute to your dns consistent?
566 [07:12:35] <greylinensuit_> ran wireshark in a VM but pretty n00 to manual linux networking
567 [07:13:14] <themill> greylinensuit_: stretch is not testing; that might be part of your problem
568 [07:13:34] <greylinensuit_> yes, have manual servers entered but set on auto and falling back to router and localhost private IP
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570 [07:14:45] <muxed> if you try a few different servers run by different providers, its your isp filtering or your config somewhere
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573 [07:15:37] <muxed> for a fun time run dnsmasq and point it to desired external dns, turn on logging, and use the dnsmasq for your dns. it'll show lots of info.
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577 [07:16:01] <greylinensuit_> ISP (Comcast) was suspected, not router admin but ISP modem and roommate’s router
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582 [07:16:31] <greylinensuit_> hm thx
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594 [07:17:46] <greylinensuit_> themill mentioned stretch is not testing. will try setting to buster/testing for apt-secure issue
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596 [07:17:51] <greylinensuit_> thx all
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615 [07:19:38] <themill> greylinensuit_: you might want to decide whether you want to run stretch or buster as a first step.
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617 [07:20:22] <themill> greylinensuit_: which do you think you're running?
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625 [07:23:03] <themill> greylinensuit_: please keep the discussion in the channel, that way when I wander off, others can help.
626 [07:23:35] <greylinensuit_> k thx, irc phone app is subpar
627 [07:24:06] <TyrfingMjolnir> Anyone feel like helping me setting up bind9?
628 [07:24:31] <TyrfingMjolnir> It's installed, root servers run
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630 [07:24:32] <greylinensuit_> think i’m running stretch with some testing pkg upgrades, will try setting testing/buster once dns resolves
631 [07:24:39] <TyrfingMjolnir> I need to add my local entries
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637 [07:26:05] <themill> greylinensuit_: there's not really such a thing as stretch with some testing packages... that's called an unsupportable mess.
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645 [07:27:42] <greylinensuit_> hence the ellipses... good call
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648 [07:28:55] <TyrfingMjolnir> I have added zone "domain.tld" in named.conf and added replaced-url
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652 [07:29:39] <TyrfingMjolnir> Restarted the service, done dig @127.0.0.1 replaced-url
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657 [07:33:12] <themill> TyrfingMjolnir: I predict that the seeing the actual config is required. (#bind also exists btw)
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664 [07:36:26] <TyrfingMjolnir> I just got it running
665 [07:37:07] <TyrfingMjolnir> Changed the TTL
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745 [08:27:17] <TyrfingMjolnir> Whar is this error: Oct 30 07:26:38 localhost named[85060]: ../../../../lib/isc/unix/socket.c:2881: unexpected error:
746 [08:27:22] <TyrfingMjolnir> Oct 30 07:26:38 localhost named[85060]: setsockopt(26, IP_RECVTOS) failed: Protocol not available
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748 [08:30:03] <themill> TyrfingMjolnir: which release of Debian is this?
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770 [08:46:24] <mrig> Hi, can anyone help me out with cscope on my debian system? Mine seems to have stopped making valid .out files
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772 [08:47:40] <mrig> I have no idea why. I just reinstalled and remade my home file; Which I thought would remove any dubious setting, to no avail ...
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775 [08:49:45] <rant> your question lacks any coherence you need to tell us exactly what you're doing, what you expect to happen, what actually happened.
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777 [08:50:18] <rant> !ask
778 [08:50:19] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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785 [08:55:01] <mrig> Thank you. I am using vim with cscope currently learning to code in C. I have recently found that the `cscope -b cscope.files` command no longer makes valid databases. I have no idea why this is now happening. On older projects with older cscope.out files, cscope still works fine.
786 [08:55:32] <mrig> I am running debian 9.4
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790 [08:56:02] <rant> are you running the command from the shell? is it producing any output at all that you can see?
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794 [08:56:38] <mrig> I am running the command from vim. This is an example of the error that it now produces. E259: no matches found for cscope query c Camera_FFC_animate of Camera_FFC_animate
795 [08:57:24] <mrig> it will run in the shell. but has produced some curios output such as not displaying the text in its results.
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799 [08:59:42] <rant> ok well since nobody else is chiming in I'm gonna continue to help with this but I never heard of cscope before now and I dont use or even like vim.. but this is a really old editor and utility that is well documented so..
800 [08:59:57] <mrig> I have just tried in the shell, and it has given a list of function calls
801 [09:00:12] <rant> mrig: have you tried using the cscope -R to see if you can do this manually from the interactive curses GUI?
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803 [09:00:29] <n4dir> mrig: it may sound unfriendly, but i don't mean it like that. You might want to ask in #vim
804 [09:00:33] <rant> (at this point we're just trying to narrow down where the problem lies exactly)
805 [09:00:44] <mrig> Looking to find where to ash
806 [09:00:47] <mrig> ask
807 [09:01:37] <n4dir> i mean: you meet the vim wizards pretty much everywhere, but you sure will meet them in #vim (that is: i am not saying here is kinda the wrong place)
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809 [09:01:38] <mrig> Have just run in the shell and it has worked; But it has displayed curious behaviour also.
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811 [09:02:13] <mrig> I think that it is cscope that is making different files though
812 [09:02:31] <mrig> though that it as perhaps due to the c build chain
813 [09:02:49] <mrig> what ever it uses to follow the graph of the program
814 [09:02:56] <mrig> the code rather
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817 [09:03:32] <mrig> But not sure, that is why I thought that I should ask in debian, perhaps others have had the same issue?
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819 [09:04:33] <mrig> I will ask in vim :)
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821 [09:05:59] <n4dir> i also tend to first ask in the channel of the distro. seems to make sense to me.
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824 [09:06:44] <rant> I'd also test it out with some real simple code
825 [09:07:01] <rant> cause given the nature of this thing, it could be choaking on something unconventional in the codebase
826 [09:07:07] <mrig> Yes I like to try to keep my distro to strictly free stable packages, to keep the variables to a minimum for things like this
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829 [09:07:38] <mrig> I am learning make too. so I have quite a lot to ponder on this.
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831 [09:08:30] <mrig> It has just started working again ...
832 [09:09:14] * rant goes back to coding python :P
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834 [09:09:40] <mrig> I dont trust my computer which effective destroys the soul whilst doing this sort of thing. One of those intels with a massive backdoor :(
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836 [09:10:27] <mrig> n4dir: Do you code C at all?
837 [09:10:38] <mrig> such a beautiful language.
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839 [09:10:57] <mrig> Seems to be being spoiled right now though.
840 [09:11:00] <rant> beauty is in the eye of the beer holder I heard..
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843 [09:13:09] <rant> certainly explains ballmer peak
844 [09:13:33] <n4dir> mrig: no. I really tried, but i ain't got the hang for programming (pretty much always printf "hello world\n" in loops ... :-)
845 [09:14:42] <mrig> It is not for every one that is for sure, appeals to my logical thinking, learning openGL at the moment which is fantastic!
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848 [09:15:10] <veridiam> C really is beautiful
849 [09:15:22] <n4dir> of the ones i tried i liked C the most though. To me it seemed to kinda make sense. And then came pointers to pointers, and i gave up :-)
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852 [09:16:32] <veridiam> did you start with OO languages? pointers seem to be a barrier if you started in OO
853 [09:16:40] <mrig> oh the pointers are the part that I like, I love the notion that I am actually selecting areas of physical memory.
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855 [09:17:52] <mrig> n4dir: sheer bloody mindedness is helping me to get through that stage too :)
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864 [09:19:25] <TyrfingMjolnir> themill: 9.x latest
865 [09:19:59] <TyrfingMjolnir> cat /etc/issue Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l
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870 [09:21:23] <rant> TyrfingMjolnir: umm.. try cat /etc/debian_version its mor precise :P
871 [09:21:41] <rant> and really apt policy tells a lot too
872 [09:21:48] <themill> TyrfingMjolnir: is this a real machine or some sort of container?
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887 [09:29:07] <TyrfingMjolnir> rant: 9.5
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890 [09:29:59] <TyrfingMjolnir> themill: themill Joyent SmartOS LX zone: Linux fdb68967-7f79-c45d-e12b-873238fbaf7f 4.10 BrandZ virtual linux x86_64 GNU/Linux
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892 [09:31:44] <themill> TyrfingMjolnir: that environment doesn't support that socket option iirc
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895 [09:33:41] <mrig> So why did this just start working again?
896 [09:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1346
897 [09:34:14] <mrig> Is this perhaps a security issue on my system; How would I know if it was?
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908 [09:37:02] <mrig> I wonder if I would perhaps be better off with a fully free computer.
909 [09:37:40] <mrig> I was disappointed when I learned that they exist, at about the same time that I discovered that mine is broken.
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919 [09:44:15] <tmroland> help
920 [09:44:24] <tmroland> trying to update fresh install of stable with nvidia driver to sid and i get
921 [09:44:26] <tmroland> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
922 [09:44:28] <tmroland> libglvnd0-nvidia : Conflicts: libglvnd0 but 1.1.0-1 is to be installed
923 [09:44:30] <tmroland> E: Broken packages
924 [09:44:37] *** Quits: greylinensuit_ (~greylinen@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
925 [09:44:37] <tmroland> or must i do it to testing first
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933 [09:53:36] <jelly> tmroland: two things
934 [09:53:39] <jelly> !debian-nexy
935 [09:53:46] <jelly> !debian-next
936 [09:53:46] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
937 [09:53:57] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
938 [09:53:57] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
939 [09:53:58] <n4dir> that should have been debian-sexy , little typo.
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946 [10:03:55] <dionysus69> how to source /etc/environment systemwide without reboot
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948 [10:04:30] <dionysus69> I have sourced it from zsh and then launched app but it doesnt detect the env var
949 [10:04:42] <dionysus69> but I am sure app will work if I reboot
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956 [10:07:49] <agio> dionysus69: did you export the vars?
957 [10:09:05] <dionysus69> yes I did inside /etc/environment
958 [10:09:07] <dionysus69> and then sourced
959 [10:09:46] <dionysus69> I figure it doesnt need reboot but just logout/login, would like to avoid that too :s
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965 [10:16:04] <jelly> dionysus69: log off, log back on
966 [10:16:12] <jelly> ah, you figured that out
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1051 [11:12:12] <kallenp> Hello. Please, how can I import compressed database backup in sql.gz over ssh ? Is it possible ?
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1053 [11:12:33] <rk4> it is possible.
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1055 [11:12:57] <petn-randall> kallenp: We will allow it.
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1057 [11:13:07] <petn-randall> ;)
1058 [11:14:12] <rk4> replaced-url
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1076 [11:23:59] <Tech_8> hi
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1086 [11:28:49] <at0m> dpkg: tell Tech_8 about ask
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1117 [11:47:41] <rant> I'm not even sure what terms to use to search for what I want right now.. but I know how to do this manually, but I am looking for something that'd automatically create catconcation of any given number of images intelligently figuring out the number of rows/cols.. it can be assumed for my use that all the images will be the same dimensions.. guess it would be like those things you use to make a preview for
1118 [11:47:47] <rant> video files that shows several frames throughout the video in one image
1119 [11:48:12] <rant> something I can just throw 3, 6, 12 or however many images at and it'll make em all into one
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1122 [11:48:25] <rant> without further options explaining how to tile them
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1128 [11:50:45] <rant> heck, I'll just do without it in this case.. I really dont feel like coding anything with PIL or Imagemagick :P
1129 [11:51:05] <themill> montage
1130 [11:51:26] <rant> yes, isnt montage part of imagemagic and requires you telling it how many rows/cols?
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1132 [11:52:02] <themill> well, montage is the generic term; also an imagemagick tool for making them
1133 [11:52:23] <rant> yes well that helps cause I was saying mosaic or tiles when searching and was getting the wrong stuff :P
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1141 [11:54:09] <rant> I'll glance at the imagemagic montage manpage I suppose.. but I'm pretty sure it cant work properly without telling it something and I really dont wanna code anything more on this part of this than a list of images.. I'd just as soon pick only one image or use em all individually
1142 [11:54:46] <rant> I only asked to begin with cause I was gettin hungry/tired or else I'd have just coded what I wanted to begin with :P
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1224 [12:48:42] <nehemiah> I wonder if it's possible to convert a Ubuntu machine to Debian without having access to it. I' guess it is but wonder if anybody has an idea on how to do it?
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1227 [12:48:58] <abrotman> physical access you mean?
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1230 [12:49:21] <nehemiah> abrotman: Correct, that's what I mean.
1231 [12:49:33] <abrotman> dpkg: tell nehemiah about debootstrap
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1364 [14:06:35] <exembe> new debian libc6-dev doesnt have bits/byteswap-16.h for only /usr/include/byteswap.h , but kernel make-kpkg says its required, 4.19er kernel, maybe i can make clean and it works
1365 [14:06:53] <greycat> sounds like a post-stable question
1366 [14:07:32] <jelly> exembe: check bts for existing issues and file a bug report.
1367 [14:07:41] <greycat> !debian-next
1368 [14:07:41] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1370 [14:08:09] <jelly> judd: file bits/byteswap-16.h
1371 [14:08:14] <judd> Search for bits/byteswap-16.h in stretch/amd64: libc6-dev-ppc64-cross: usr/powerpc64-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev: usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-s390x-cross: usr/s390x-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-ppc64el-cross: usr/powerpc64le-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-mips64el-cross: usr/mips64el-linux-
1372 [14:08:15] <judd> gnuabi64/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-sparc64-cross: usr/sparc64-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-hppa-cross: usr/hppa-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-m68k-cross: usr/m68k-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-arm64-cross: usr/aarch64-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; libc6-dev-sh4-cross: usr/sh4-linux-gnu/include/bits/byteswap-16.h; (2 more messages)
1373 [14:08:27] <greycat> damn, judd...
1374 [14:08:28] <exembe> judd: file /usr/include/byteswap.h
1375 [14:08:31] <jelly> $#@%^T crosscompiling chains
1376 [14:08:33] <judd> Search for /usr/include/byteswap.h in stretch/amd64: libc6-dev: usr/include/byteswap.h
1377 [14:08:55] <exembe> i did make clean and now kernel copilation seems to run on fine
1378 [14:09:03] <jelly> exembe: it's there on amd64 in stretch, which libc6-dev version do you have installed?
1379 [14:09:19] <exembe> 2.28experimental0
1380 [14:09:24] <jelly> why
1381 [14:09:32] <exembe> i guess some sys changes messed it up but after make clean it works
1382 [14:09:38] <exembe> i have to have newest software
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1384 [14:09:55] <jelly> !experimental
1385 [14:09:56] <dpkg> experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section 4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference. replaced-url
1386 [14:09:58] <exembe> i have to code toppest ware and have to have newest software
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1389 [14:10:10] <greycat> experimental means that when it explodes into a thousand pieces and each piece mutates into a tentacle monster and strangles you, you get to clean up the mess
1390 [14:10:15] <exembe> ok ill see the oftc one
1391 [14:10:18] <jelly> exembe: and when it breaks you get to keep all the bits.
1392 [14:10:27] <exembe> i run it since 2002
1393 [14:10:27] <jelly> !debian-next
1394 [14:10:28] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1398 [14:11:22] <greycat> One does not "run" experimental. One carefully introduces a tiny piece of it in a controlled setting, with a big red panic button wired to nuke it if it starts to gain sentience.
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1400 [14:11:52] <exembe> dude its all the same
1401 [14:12:11] <exembe> packages are configured all the same way, just newer versions
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1403 [14:12:32] <exembe> i mean, on my todo list a distro with only -dev compiling packages
1404 [14:12:41] <jelly> exembe: sometimes newer versions have bugs that older versions do not
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1406 [14:13:01] <exembe> i cant live without newest stuff
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1408 [14:13:37] <jelly> that's totally fine! However, you don't get to ask questions about installations with mixed in experimental in #debian
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1410 [14:14:07] <exembe> ah well um it was a small question about missing transition from old to new file header but ok buh
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1531 [15:21:37] <squarecircle> I'd like to use some 3 AMD FirePro V7900 to setup a screen wall
1532 [15:22:03] <squarecircle> do you think, it would work with Debian 9 and the free AMD drivers?
1533 [15:22:22] <cryptodan> might with amdgpu-pros
1534 [15:22:41] <squarecircle> they are actually listed as legacy on the AMD site
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1536 [15:23:51] <cryptodan> then you might not have any luck
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1538 [15:23:59] <squarecircle> meh
1539 [15:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1399
1540 [15:24:08] <Tenkawa> greetings all
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1543 [15:24:44] <squarecircle> what multihead gpus are out there, that I can use with debian?
1544 [15:25:43] <fireba11> squarecircle: what you mean with multihead cpu?
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1546 [15:26:56] <squarecircle> gpus, that support >3 independent screens
1547 [15:27:24] <fireba11> squarecircle: any current. there are plenty of AMD models with up to 6x DP :-D
1548 [15:27:41] <squarecircle> fireba11: ones that are affordable
1549 [15:28:08] <squarecircle> fireba11: If I need to pay >$20k, then I just fix xdmx
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1551 [15:30:14] <fireba11> squarecircle: cheapes with 6x mini-DP (not enough room to fit 6x regular DP in one slot) on newegg is $233
1552 [15:30:15] <squarecircle> fireba11: ones like the Radeon Pro WX9100 I knew already, but they cost like $5000
1553 [15:30:28] <fireba11> squarecircle: replaced-url
1554 [15:30:33] <squarecircle> fireba11: do you have a link for me?
1555 [15:30:37] <fireba11> if you don't have any speed requirements :-D
1556 [15:31:02] <squarecircle> n0pe, only stats and graphs
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1558 [15:32:29] <fireba11> amd started to support up to 6 displays years ago, normal cards support 3 but there have been versions that support the full 6 displays, which made screen-walls dirt cheap compared to like 10 years ago
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1564 [15:33:12] <squarecircle> fireba11: I have some ancient Barco and MAtrox Quad Head Cards, but they arent supported anymore
1565 [15:33:20] <squarecircle> fireba11: which is very, very sad
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1569 [15:34:14] <fireba11> squarecircle: use the power search to find cards that fir your requirements ... never comnfirmed the driver support for linux for those but there should be options that work with all displays. also with pci-e you can easily put more than one card in your PC :-D
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1573 [15:35:05] <fireba11> i'm from germany so i never order from newegg but the power search is really nice to find hardware if you got rather specific requirements ;-)
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1575 [15:35:56] <Tenkawa> i am some days happy i dont have to worry about this side of hardware
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1577 [15:36:07] <colo-work> fireba11, you know geizhals.de exists for that/a similar purpose?
1578 [15:36:09] <Tenkawa> the hardware I do work on is hard enough
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1580 [15:36:47] <Tenkawa> but since I'm colorblind and cant see 3d gpu's and graphics dont do much for me
1581 [15:38:04] <squarecircle> AMD FirePro W600 gebraucht 169€ oder Preisvorschlag
1582 [15:38:16] <squarecircle> sounds reasonably cheap
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1584 [15:38:32] <Tenkawa> I just picked up a arm box with a hex core and this thing is nice
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1587 [15:39:47] <squarecircle> Matrox C900, 9x miniHDMI, 1k5€
1588 [15:39:51] <squarecircle> hm
1589 [15:40:11] <noodlepie> Hiya, how do I embed a command in fish --> like "cat `ls`" in bash
1590 [15:40:31] <squarecircle> does Matrox is currently supported by Debian?
1591 [15:40:34] <greycat> The phrase you're looking for is "command substitution" but I know zero about fish so I can't answer that part.
1592 [15:40:38] <noodlepie> I wanna do "diff `ls -l /` `ls -l /mnt/target`"
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1594 [15:41:03] <colo-work> diff <(ls -l /) <(ls -l /mnt/target)
1595 [15:41:04] <greycat> That wouldn't work.
1596 [15:41:06] <colo-work> (bash only)
1597 [15:41:34] <greycat> Right, colo-work's answer is how you'd do it in bash. noodlepie's answer won't work in ANY shell because diff does not take multi-line strings as arguments. It takes filenames.
1598 [15:41:36] <Tenkawa> there should be a way to use rsync in report mode
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1600 [15:41:55] <colo-work> Tenkawa, "--dry-run"?
1601 [15:42:10] <colo-work> combines with "--stats", "--progress" ...
1602 [15:42:20] <colo-work> `rsync` has a _lot_ of options
1603 [15:42:31] <colo-work> I'd wager that your needs can be taken care of
1604 [15:42:35] <noodlepie> The linux-image-rt-amd64 package won't install; something about 4·18.0-2 not being in stalled? I thought the linux-image-rt-amd64 would depend on the latest kernel anyway?
1605 [15:42:40] <Tenkawa> yeah you'll need to look into the options
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1608 [15:42:55] <greycat> !debian-next
1609 [15:42:55] <fireba11> colo-work: yes, but for the last few % of technical details newegg is better :-D
1610 [15:42:56] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
1611 [15:43:09] <colo-work> fireba11, like which ones?
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1613 [15:43:32] <Tenkawa> oh noodlepie : rsync was directed to you
1614 [15:43:34] <noodlepie> thank guys! You are all stars!
1615 [15:43:46] <Tenkawa> colo-work: that was directed to noodlepie
1616 [15:43:52] <Tenkawa> I saw the wrong nick
1617 [15:43:56] <colo-work> Tenkawa, ah %)
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1619 [15:44:01] <fireba11> Tenkawa: hm? i don't see 3d either but i still need a reasonable GPU. just that VR would be useless :-D
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1622 [15:44:34] <Tenkawa> fireba11: my eyesight is all messed up in general
1623 [15:44:55] <Tenkawa> so investing in major gpu resources doesnt do me much
1624 [15:45:23] <Tenkawa> unless they can be rerouted to co-process
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1626 [15:46:02] <fireba11> colo-work: haven't had that issue in a while ... seems they got about everything now. it's still easier to give out links to english speaking ... oh never mind, the eu-button switches to english :-P
1627 [15:46:34] <colo-work> fireba11, yeah, but only for English "Accept-Language" request headers sent by your browser
1628 [15:46:43] <colo-work> the "always English" site is skinflint.co.uk
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1631 [15:47:06] <fireba11> hehe. english is the preferred browser language for me so .. ;-)
1632 [15:47:15] <colo-work> same here :)
1633 [15:47:39] <colo-work> but others might get the content in German if you lead them there
1634 [15:47:42] <colo-work> that's what I meant to say
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1636 [15:47:54] <Tenkawa> not anymore but for 18 years I was in an area where I needed resources to be tri-lingual
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1638 [15:48:12] <Tenkawa> granted the internet was not a thing yet
1639 [15:48:21] * Tenkawa is a bit old
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1643 [15:49:00] <SpeedyG> 'a bit'? ;-)
1644 [15:49:20] <fireba11> colo-work: one in a while a program gets confused with my settings ... got a mix of english and german settings ... os-language is english, keyboard layout is german, unit settings are metric, time is 24h date is YYYY-MM-DD etc. :-D
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1646 [15:49:41] <colo-work> fireba11, our perferred setups are very much alike ;)
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1649 [15:50:15] <Tenkawa> SpeedyG: haahaa yep
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1651 [15:50:33] <SpeedyG> fireba11: best fun is when using microsoft excel... with US-english interface, but localized formula stuff.... having to use the dutch equivalent of 'sum' (som) or 'if' (als) is a huge pain ;)
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1653 [15:50:49] <SpeedyG> sorry Tenkawa, that one was just easy ;)
1654 [15:51:00] <fireba11> SpeedyG: rofl
1655 [15:51:00] <Tenkawa> SpeedyG: lets just say I was using computers in the 70's
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1660 [15:51:30] <tomman> hi there
1661 [15:51:31] <SpeedyG> Tenkawa: unfortunately I wasnt even born then.. :(
1662 [15:51:36] <Tenkawa> haaahaa
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1664 [15:51:38] <tomman> I'm trying to build a kernel the Debian Way
1665 [15:51:41] <Tenkawa> see I told you
1666 [15:51:45] <tomman> but I need a bit of advice as I'm going to crosscompile
1667 [15:51:52] <tomman> (host is amd64, target is 686-pae)
1668 [15:51:54] <greycat> !kernel handbook
1669 [15:51:55] <dpkg> The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook replaced-url
1670 [15:52:02] <Tenkawa> hey greycat
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1673 [15:52:28] <Tenkawa> greycat: you been keeping up on any of these new arm64 boxes?
1674 [15:52:29] <tomman> I'm trying to do using debian/bin/test-patches -j2 -f 686-pae ../route-to-the-patch-I-want-to-try.patch
1675 [15:52:31] <tomman> but I get an error
1676 [15:52:33] *** Quits: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1677 [15:52:37] <tomman> make: *** No rule to make target 'binary-arch_amd64_none_686-pae'
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1682 [15:53:00] <tomman> (it works on the target 686-pae box, but it takes like 8 hours to build a kernel!)
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1687 [15:54:58] <Tenkawa> ooh almost lunchtime
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1691 [15:57:04] <Tenkawa> cheers alll.. probably be back later this evening..
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1703 [16:01:17] <noodlepie> diff <(ls) <(cat /etc/motd)
1704 [16:01:17] <noodlepie> fish: Invalid redirection target: (ls)
1705 [16:01:18] <noodlepie> diff <(ls) <(cat /etc/motd)
1706 [16:01:18] <noodlepie> -- what gives?
1707 [16:01:30] <greycat> Ask a fish channel.
1708 [16:01:42] <greycat> those process substitutions are a bash feature
1709 [16:01:59] <noodlepie> ok
1710 [16:02:14] <colo-work> bash -c 'diff <(ls) <(cat /etc/motd)'
1711 [16:02:18] <colo-work> thank me later
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1716 [16:04:01] <annadane> instructions unclear, house burned down
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1719 [16:04:46] <greycat> See, I don't even know whether single quotes work in fish they way they do in regular shells. I really know *nothing* about fish.
1720 [16:05:01] <annadane> says the cat
1721 [16:05:02] *** Quits: papemco (~papemco@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1722 [16:05:22] * greycat googles "fish process substitution" to see what it says
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1729 [16:09:30] <greycat> Well, my initial results show that fish seems to support process substitutions in one direction but not in the other direction. Fortunately the <() direction is the one that seems to be supported.
1730 [16:10:22] <noodlepie> I'm trying to do "diff (ls -lo /) (ls -l /mnt/target)"
1731 [16:10:57] <greycat> That's a COMMAND substitution in fish. You need a PROCESS substitution. It's a different thing.
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1733 [16:11:55] <greycat> A command substitution takes the output and shoves it directly into the argument that diff sees. A process substitution creates a virtual file (or a real file, or whatever) whose NAME is given as an argument to diff.
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1737 [16:13:00] <greycat> bash$ echo $(echo I am a command substitution)
1738 [16:13:00] <greycat> I am a command substitution
1739 [16:13:02] <tomman> Sadly it seems the kernel handbook doesn't cover cross-compiling cases
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1741 [16:13:11] <tomman> I'm on AMD64, I want to build a 686-pae image
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1743 [16:13:13] <greycat> bash$ echo <(echo I am a process substitution)
1744 [16:13:13] <greycat> /dev/fd/63
1745 [16:13:15] <tomman> the book says nothing about that
1746 [16:13:33] <n4dir> noodlepie: i would assumd diff / /mnt/target. pretty sure though that ls is always a bad idea.
1747 [16:13:42] <tomman> all I get is a error about about a nonexisting binary-arch_amd64_none_686-pae target
1748 [16:14:08] <greycat> It's probably an X-Y problem anyway. The hints to use rsync --dry-run -v are probably on point.
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1751 [16:14:53] <greycat> But if we can do some education about process vs. command substitutions in the meantime, that may be helpful in the long run.
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1762 [16:20:22] <noodlepie> What if I want to do cat $(ls -l /)
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1764 [16:20:42] <noodlepie> Its ok, I got it
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1769 [16:21:26] <greycat> What do you expect this command to do -- show you the directory listing, or show you the content of every file in / (of which there are probably none)?
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1771 [16:21:49] <greycat> And are you asking for fish or bash?
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1776 [16:23:40] <squarecircle> fireba11: thx
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1778 [16:24:01] <squarecircle> fireba11: I think I'll try the Sapphire GPRO 6200
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1839 [16:58:49] <Penguin> So how do I get the widevine plugin for chromium since the chromium-widevine package is busted?
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1843 [17:01:19] <Penguin> The actual contents of the actual package do not match the filelist from the packages website and the package does not actual include the plugin file.
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1846 [17:02:17] <greycat> You said all this yesterday. What new information do you have? Is there an open bug? What
1847 [17:02:28] <greycat> You said all this yesterday. What new information do you have? Is there an open bug? What's the bug number? What release of Debian is this? What version of the package?
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1849 [17:02:47] <Penguin> Nothing new to my knowledge. No one ever responded to me, so I've now asked again.
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1851 [17:03:12] <greycat> replaced-url
1852 [17:03:15] <Penguin> I don't have answers to your questions right now, but I will get all of them.
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1884 [17:23:04] <Penguin> The bug tracker is checking report logs for a much older version of the package. I'm using Stretch, and the version I downloaded/installed is chromium-widevine_69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1_amd64. The packages site reflects this version number. The bug tracker shows that it is checking for 63.0.3239.84-1~deb9u1 when I search "in package" chromium-widevine and choose stable.
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1887 [17:23:57] <Penguin> But it shows no reports found.
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1891 [17:26:12] <n4dir> you will want to send a bug-report then.
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1897 [17:33:01] <queip> guys, when will enigmail + thunderbird again be installable on Debian? >:(
1898 [17:33:14] <queip> since some time, you can't install them both, they conflict
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1904 [17:36:29] <greycat> Penguin: stretch has chromium-widevine 63.x but security.debian.org has chromium-widevine 69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1 for stretch, so you *should* be getting the 69.x version if you have security.debian.org enabled
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1906 [17:37:17] <Penguin> greycat: I am pulling in 69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1. I was just saying that searching the bug tracker was returning an older version.
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1910 [17:38:59] <greycat> Next ... apt-get --print-uris install gives me replaced-url
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1914 [17:39:55] <n4dir> besides /usr/doc it looks pretty empty to me.
1915 [17:40:08] <greycat> Penguin: Yup, extracting it with dpkg -x shows that it is definitely missing that lib*.so file. Bug report time. Seems like a very straightforward bug to file.
1916 [17:40:22] <Penguin> I'm in reportbug right now. Thank you.
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1930 [17:48:07] <Penguin> This problem makes the package completely useless, so it would seem to me that it is a serious problem. The issue I'm having is that reportbug requires me to enter a Debian policy manual which is being violated, and I can't figure out that information from looking at the manual.
1931 [17:48:33] <Penguin> policy manual section which is being violated
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1933 [17:48:46] <greycat> Just make it a normal bug report, describe what's wrong, and let the maintainers worry about the priority/severity.
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1935 [17:49:19] <greycat> Getting the bug into the system so that people know a problem *exists* is the important part.
1936 [17:49:32] <Penguin> OK. I saw that if I can't provide that, it would be downgraded to normal, but normal's definition didn't fit. That was why I was doing what I was doing.
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1944 [17:53:16] <Penguin> I did my best at submitting the report. It's my first time, so I hope I didn't mess it up too badly.
1945 [17:53:46] <greycat> It takes a while to process, so be patient.
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1948 [17:54:35] <annadane> my experience with reportbug is if it's wrong it'll be redirected or otherwise filled out by the reportbug people anyway
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1957 [17:56:37] <Penguin> Bug #912355
1958 [17:56:49] <greycat> Oh, that was way faster than I've seen in the past.
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1961 [17:57:46] <Penguin> Must be a slow day in the bug intake dept.
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1996 [18:18:24] <j3kyl_> hey, is it really ok having testing and stable repo in a SID distro? I mean, that priority wont shit the system?
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1999 [18:18:53] <greycat> If you are running sid, adding older releases like stretch as sources probably won't hurt.
2000 [18:19:01] <greycat> Adding testing would seem pointless though.
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2002 [18:20:15] <j3kyl_> eg: seems that imagemagick are not available ...so I can push it from stable with no issue eh?
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2004 [18:20:38] <greycat> ,v imagemagick
2005 [18:20:39] <judd> Package: imagemagick on amd64 -- wheezy: 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u22; jessie: 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u12; jessie-security: 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u12; stretch: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u3; stretch-proposed-updates: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u6; stretch-security: 8:6.9.7.4+dfsg-11+deb9u6; buster: 8:6.9.10.8+dfsg-1; sid: 8:6.9.10.14+dfsg-1
2006 [18:20:46] <greycat> judd thinks sid has it
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2009 [18:21:51] <j3kyl_> imagemagick : Depends: imagemagick-6.q16 (>= 8:6.9.2.10+dfsg-2~)
2010 [18:21:52] <j3kyl_> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
2011 [18:22:04] <annadane> that doesn't mean it's "not available"
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2013 [18:22:16] <j3kyl_> so how one fix that?
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2015 [18:22:34] <annadane> well, you follow the !bat factoid, or investigate with aptitude, or check the tracker/bts, as you're expected to with sid
2016 [18:22:56] <annadane> if you want something that consistently works use stable
2017 [18:23:16] <greycat> Sounds like a sid issue to me. Ask the sid support channel.
2018 [18:23:20] <annadane> !debian-next
2019 [18:23:21] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2020 [18:23:43] <annadane> "not available" would be "doesn't exist in the sid repo", which is incredibly rare. testing, by contrast, *does* often get packages removed
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2025 [18:26:44] <annadane> if you don't even understand the concept of held broken packages/transitions/whatever, you're going to run into headaches with sid
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2028 [18:27:11] <j3kyl_> annadane: so I will take my time learning it...
2029 [18:27:28] <annadane> fair enough, just don't be surprised when things break and if you need your system for work it's less than ideal
2030 [18:27:30] <allan_wind> Hi, who can I tell about a display issue with bugs.debian.org?
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2032 [18:28:33] <annadane> try #debian-replaced-url
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2034 [18:29:35] <iwkse> Hi, PHP on debian stable is 7.0 but according to replaced-url
2035 [18:29:48] <annadane> debian will provide it
2036 [18:30:19] <iwkse> annadane: nice
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2071 [18:51:46] <jhutchins> iwkse: RedHat's still supporting/patching 5.4
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2073 [18:53:54] <faction> Can libgcrypt be used as an alternative to libcrypt?
2074 [18:54:14] <RoyK> jhutchins: IIRC you need extended lifetime support for that to happen
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2076 [18:54:51] <RoyK> jhutchins: replaced-url
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2079 [18:55:36] <allan_wind> faction: it looks like it, but might depend on your use case
2080 [18:56:18] <faction> I want to have the functionality of crypt function of libcrypt
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2102 [19:09:23] <allan_wind> faction: well, crypt() is not a single but more of a container afaik, gcrypt doesn't have a crypt() call, they are name spaced. gcrypt does support some of the hashes that is used by crypt (des, md5, sha-256, sha-512, SHA-1) but looks like some are missing like BSDi, and bcrypt. replaced-url
2103 [19:09:35] <allan_wind> faction: not sure if this helps you one way or another
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2116 [19:17:56] <faction> allan_wind: Thank You
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2134 [19:29:16] <darsie> Is it easy to install the testing flightgear packages on stable?
2135 [19:29:38] <greycat> ,v flightgear
2136 [19:29:39] <judd> Package: flightgear on amd64 -- jessie-security: 3.0.0-5+deb8u1; jessie: 3.0.0-5+deb8u3; stretch: 1:2016.4.4+dfsg-3+deb9u1; buster: 1:2018.2.2+dfsg-1; sid: 1:2018.2.2+dfsg-1
2137 [19:29:50] <greycat> ,checkbackport flightgear
2138 [19:29:58] <judd> Backporting package flightgear in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: flightgear-data-ai (>= 1:2018.2.2~), flightgear-data-base (>= 1:2018.2.2~), libsimgear-dev (>> 1:2018.2.2~).
2139 [19:30:04] <greycat> I'm gonna guess "no".
2140 [19:30:08] <darsie> thx
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2152 [19:35:42] <noodlepie> Hiya guys! I'm just updating our communal Debian PC
2153 [19:36:04] <darsie> yay
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2158 [19:40:35] <tomman> well, looks like I've figured out how to crosscompile kernels the Debian way...
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2160 [19:40:38] <tomman> ...hopefully
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2163 [19:40:57] <tomman> replaced-url
2164 [19:41:03] <tomman> had to do something like that
2165 [19:41:26] <rlange> Are there any public mirrors of snapshots.debian.org? It's been having trouble all day.
2166 [19:41:30] <tomman> except for the "make i386_defconfig"; I copied the config from the stock kernels at jessie-backports (as i'm building 4.9 for Jessie)
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2169 [19:42:17] <tomman> need to disable building the debug symbols for the next time, as that part takes forever and a half
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2177 [19:48:07] <NetTerminalGene> IBM bought debian
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2184 [19:50:56] <RoyK> NetTerminalGene: you mean IBM bought redhat?
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2186 [19:52:20] <grobi> guess everybody knows this swiss-german coop.. replaced-url
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2188 [19:52:36] <grobi> sorry wrong channel
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2211 [20:05:04] <EdePopede> this time i had to kill pulseaudio to be able to unmount a partition. is there a way to restart without reboot?
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2215 [20:05:49] <bolovanos> hithere
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2220 [20:06:57] <iwkse> jhutchins: cool
2221 [20:07:05] <EdePopede> ok, no idea what happened, seems to be back
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2224 [20:08:34] <bolovanos> because of long lasting problems with exim4 (does not send emails to outside addresses) I have decided to "apt-get remove -- purge exim4" and to remove /etc/exim4, but reinstallation "apt-get install exim4" and doing "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" does not recreate /etc/exim4.
2225 [20:08:40] <bolovanos> what em I doing wrong?
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2249 [20:19:55] <xsisec> hi people I am using 'Linux d0m 4.18.0-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.18.10-2 (2018-10-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux' also I am using openbox , anyway.. I have installed playonlinux 4.12 though I can't see the window for the installer see picture replaced-url
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2252 [20:20:24] <bolovanos> ok installing exim4-confing did the thing
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2254 [20:22:14] <jelly> xsisec: which debian release did you install?
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2256 [20:22:45] <xsisec> jelly, debian 9 stretch with 'Linux d0m 4.18.0-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.18.10-2 (2018-10-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux'
2257 [20:22:54] <jelly> because that looks like a kernel from the (unreleased) testing or (development) unstable branch
2258 [20:23:16] <jelly> xsisec: pastebin the output of "apt-cache policy" please
2259 [20:23:24] <jelly> !paste
2260 [20:23:24] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
2261 [20:23:36] <jelly> you're probably not on stretch any more
2262 [20:24:01] <xsisec> jelly, --> replaced-url
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2264 [20:24:24] <annadane> oh good god
2265 [20:24:30] * annadane runs away screaming
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2267 [20:25:00] <jelly> xsisec: you have sid (unstable) repos enabled, and at least some packages from sid installed. That's not Debian 9 any more.
2268 [20:25:07] <jelly> !debian-next
2269 [20:25:07] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2270 [20:25:12] <jelly> !sid faq
2271 [20:25:12] <dpkg> replaced-url
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2273 [20:25:20] <xsisec> jelly, how do I get invited?
2274 [20:25:33] <jelly> read that line again please
2275 [20:25:37] <xsisec> jelly, I googled some I got it I need to contribute but still little bit unclear
2276 [20:25:43] <xsisec> ok
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2278 [20:26:07] <annadane> debian multimedia = bad, mixing stable and unstable and = bad
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2283 [20:26:23] <jelly> absolutes = bad
2284 [20:26:27] <annadane> also true
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2286 [20:26:45] <jelly> but you're mostly right ;-)
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2288 [20:27:04] <xsisec> annadane,if I want to start over do I need to install debian 9 first and then sid updates for sid repos, I really need those for certain programs
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2290 [20:27:19] <xsisec> also the multimedia piece as well
2291 [20:27:29] <annadane> depends on the program, you can get most newer programs in Stable depending on what you need
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2294 [20:28:22] <xsisec> I never got for instance, obs-studio work even if I compile on my own also some other small programs
2295 [20:28:26] <annadane> the problem with adding sid to stable - unless you really know what you're doing - is you're not just installing individual programs from sid but dragging in all kinds of dependencies leaving you with what we colloquially call a FrankenDebian
2296 [20:28:30] <jelly> xsisec: you can't use sid just for certain programs. You can switch over to sid and then that's what you have and at that point it's probably safer to full-upgrade everything to sid
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2299 [20:29:20] <rlange> Also, to clarify what annadane said earlier, the concept is multimedia on Debian is not bad, but the deb-multimedia repo is not affiliated with Debian and should be avoided at all cost.
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2301 [20:29:43] <xsisec> jelly, I think I did a full-dist upgrade to sid though I guess packages remains
2302 [20:29:46] <xsisec> from stretch
2303 [20:30:01] <jelly> if you want to keep debian 9 as a platform, do not configure or enable any debian branch newer than that. Some packages have newer versions built as
2304 [20:30:03] <jelly> !backports
2305 [20:30:04] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
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2320 [20:36:14] <xsisec> jelly, ok but If I reinstall I could add from beginning backports as repos and then full dist-upgrade?
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2328 [20:41:11] <jelly> xsisec: you only install specific things you need from backports, if there are any. backports are not a complete branch.
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2332 [20:43:17] <xsisec> jelly, ok I got it
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2432 [21:41:58] <tomman> well, so I've figured out
2433 [21:42:02] <tomman> make ARCH=i386 -j2 deb-pkg
2434 [21:42:06] <tomman> that's all
2435 [21:42:19] <tomman> (ah, and copy the proper .config file from the stock kernel)
2436 [21:42:37] <somiaj> trying to build a 32bit kernel on a 64bit machine?
2437 [21:42:41] <tomman> yup
2438 [21:42:54] <tomman> now I need to figure out how to disable building the debug symbols
2439 [21:43:14] <tomman> took like 4 hours on this old Core 2 Duo to build a kernel for a much older Northwood P4
2440 [21:43:21] <tomman> (the Northwood would take nearly 10 hours!)
2441 [21:43:22] <somiaj> that works (mostly because the depends for the kernel are failry small), but in general it is nicer to use a 32bit chroot, than to build in your 64bit enviroment.
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2443 [21:43:45] <somiaj> I think you need to send debhelper some info, unsure if you can do it with an enviorment variable or you need to modify files in debian/
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2445 [21:43:58] <tomman> The documentation is quite confusing, to say the least
2446 [21:44:10] <somiaj> also lots of outdated info.
2447 [21:44:11] <tomman> and this coming from someone that used to build his own kernels from scratch in the past
2448 [21:44:34] <tomman> the kernel handbook says NOTHING about crossbuilding
2449 [21:44:35] <somiaj> the biggest problem I see is most stuff still talks about make-kpkg, and not the new deb-pkg in the source
2450 [21:44:42] <tomman> replaced-url
2451 [21:45:08] <somiaj> well in this case, I would just use a chroot, and not cross build (that is how must debian things are done, there are eving tools like pbuilder and sbuild to automate this)
2452 [21:45:09] <tomman> although I'm under Jessie, not Stretch, so I didn't exactly went that way
2453 [21:45:42] <tomman> replaced-url
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2455 [21:45:48] <tomman> will try that for disabing debug info
2456 [21:45:52] <somiaj> replaced-url
2457 [21:46:02] <choice> When I want to try some software and be sure to totally get rid of it afterwards, is it a good idea to install it in a docker container?
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2459 [21:46:34] <somiaj> also there is another make target deb-bin-pkg or something like that, that can speed up slow systems a bit, because it won't make the source packag (which actually manually packs the git archive into a .tar.gz which can take some time since the source is big)
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2461 [21:47:07] <somiaj> choice: debian has a system of automatic and manual installs. So 'apt install foo; apt remove foo; apt autoremove' should remove all packages that were installed with foo.
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2465 [21:47:27] <tomman> All of this just for testing a patch that may (or may not) work for dealing with a issue with my ATi GPU
2466 [21:47:31] <somiaj> note if packages that you pulled in are recommended or suggested by something else already on your system, they may not get removed. But that works failry well.
2467 [21:47:40] <tomman> (yeah, ATi driver hell, still a pain even in 2018)
2468 [21:48:00] <choice> somiaj: What if the software is faulty and does not totally remove everything it created somewhere on the filesystem?
2469 [21:48:05] <tomman> replaced-url
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2471 [21:48:25] <tomman> this was patched five years ago, but they missed older GPUs (namely: anything prior to R700)
2472 [21:48:51] <tomman> so hardware decoding is broken (and can hang your GPU) if you enable powersaving (DPM)
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2474 [21:49:37] <tomman> Sure, I could buy a new GPU, but this is an AGP setup, and options there are... veeeery limited, to say the least.
2475 [21:50:11] <tomman> At least I learned something new today.
2476 [21:50:12] <somiaj> choice: that will keep your system clean. You can purge instead of remove, and that will take out config files with it. Any data files that get created by that software will not get removed, but these are stored in either $HOME or maybe /var. You can delete those files afterwards, but in general for testing out things from debian, what I said will keep your system clean.
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2480 [21:50:56] <somiaj> I wouldn't worry about additional config files for unused software in $HOME. I ocasionally clean up my $HOME, but I've been using the same $HOME for close to 20 years, and it has some very old config files of software I don't use and I don't care.
2481 [21:51:12] <somiaj> using virtualization/containers could avoid this, but the gain maybe very little.
2482 [21:51:23] <choice> somiaj: What is the software is faulte and not only writes to /var/ and ~/ but also to /etc/? I don't want to trust the software.
2483 [21:51:41] <greycat> So what if it does? You have a file in /etc that nothing reads. No big deal.
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2485 [21:52:28] <choice> greycat: I want to try software without it leaving anything on my filesystem.
2486 [21:52:34] <greycat> Why?
2487 [21:52:38] <choice> Without having to trust the software.
2488 [21:52:48] <greycat> Is it illegal? Are you going to be jailed if the police seize your machine and see a file?
2489 [21:52:57] <somiaj> If there is a bug in the debian software touching files it shouldn't be, report a bug. But files in /etc should all be conf files and removable by a purge.
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2491 [21:53:48] <somiaj> yes, if installing random software from random places, you need to express your own judgement. But for testing out software in the debian repo, just install/remove it is sufficent and not needing the extra overhead of containering everything you do (though there are those who do that because they want to)
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2493 [21:54:18] <choice> I want to.
2494 [21:54:35] <somiaj> then do so, but your question asked if it was necessary, and for software from debian repos, I say no.
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2497 [21:55:02] <choice> somiaj: Well, let's say it is software not from the debian repos.
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2500 [21:55:29] <somiaj> there are a whole lot of considerations you need to make when installing software not from debian, first is, is the software compadabile with/designed to work withthe version of debian you are running.
2501 [21:55:33] <somiaj> !don't break debian
2502 [21:55:33] <dpkg> dont break debian is probably replaced-url
2503 [21:55:49] <somiaj> that wiki article has some nice suggestions for dealing with software that is not in debian.
2504 [21:56:28] <somiaj> and note .deb packages from testing are most likely not compadable with stable, or .deb packages from other distros (like ubuntu) are most likely not compadable either.
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2506 [21:56:37] <greycat> (compatible)
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2510 [21:57:02] <choice> somiaj: Well, in my case the software *is* from the Debian repos. But obviously I don't trust those as much as you do.
2511 [21:57:10] <greycat> *plonk*
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2513 [21:57:34] <choice> So I said "let's say it is software not from the Debian repos". But led us down another rabbit hole \o/
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2515 [21:57:40] <somiaj> I trust that there are lots of debian users who report bugs when software is faulty and they do get fixed (espically if the break debian policy)
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2517 [21:57:59] <n4dir> the time would be better spend in building your very own diy tinfoilhat.
2518 [21:58:01] <somiaj> sure, there will be bugs, but over all it works.
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2520 [21:59:19] <agio> hi, does anyone know if debian has any docs/info/wiki on auto-mounting a LUKS/dm-crypt container on boot?
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2525 [21:59:53] <csehl> i'm trying to change my desktop backgound in the terminal, but my /root/.xsession doesn't seem to be executed (containing xsetroot -solid "#000000"). how would i do that?
2526 [22:00:14] <greycat> do not start X as root
2527 [22:00:27] <csehl> greycat: it came out of the box like this
2528 [22:00:51] <csehl> greycat: htop shows that xorg is beeing run by root. fresh debian install
2529 [22:00:51] <greycat> Create a user account for yourself, if you didn't install Debian the normal way.
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2531 [22:01:15] <tomman> Question about kernel building
2532 [22:01:19] <csehl> greycat: i have... i followed the default installation procedure
2533 [22:01:30] <tomman> using a config from a 686-pae build does indeed build a PAE-enabled kernel, right?
2534 [22:01:37] <tomman> just want to be secure
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2536 [22:01:37] <greycat> So log in as your NON-root account, and then start X.
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2538 [22:01:41] <tomman> --want to be sure
2539 [22:01:43] <rk4> agio: man crypttab is a start
2540 [22:01:47] <choice> csehl: What does 'ls /home' show?
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2542 [22:02:21] <csehl> greycat: i am logged in as non-root. the process /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg is ran by root
2543 [22:02:40] <greycat> Then why are you trying to use /root/.xsession?
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2545 [22:03:02] <csehl> choice: i am inside of my non-root home directory, terminals are not automatically rooted
2546 [22:03:07] <greycat> If you log in as fred and use startx, then the file you want to edit (on Debian) is ~fred/.xsession
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2548 [22:03:12] <somiaj> If using a display manager, isn't the xorg for the display manager run as root, but once you login as your user, a new xorg process/session is spawend for that user?
2549 [22:03:13] <choice> csehl: That does not answer my question.
2550 [22:03:24] <choice> csehl: When you execute 'ls /home' - what is the output?
2551 [22:03:24] <csehl> choice: lost+found ph
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2553 [22:03:40] <agio> csehl: you should be able to create a user account with `adduser' then run `startx' to start X server under that user account
2554 [22:03:41] <greycat> Regardless of whether the Xorg process runs as root or fred, fred is still the one logging in and using startx, so it's ~fred/.xsession that gets read.
2555 [22:03:43] <choice> chiluk: 'ph' is a user?
2556 [22:04:16] <csehl> greycat: alright, but the login manager has the same desktop background, right? the user isn't logged in while this is showing
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2558 [22:04:25] <csehl> greycat: so that's a different setting altogether?
2559 [22:04:43] <greycat> There's a login manager? So you're not using startx?
2560 [22:04:45] <csehl> choice: yes, ph is my non-root user
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2562 [22:05:06] <choice> csehl: Is there a file /home/ph/.xsession ?
2563 [22:05:14] <csehl> greycat: there is a login screen where i can enter a username and password. it came like this after default installation
2564 [22:05:25] <greycat> OK, first step is to figure out which display manager this is.
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2567 [22:06:03] <greycat> Easiest way might be to use Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a text console, log in there, and run something like ps -ef | grep dm
2568 [22:06:04] <csehl> greycat: i can pick whichever from the login screen, the desktop background stays the same
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2570 [22:06:27] <greycat> Once you've figured out which program it is, then you can google how to configure it.
2571 [22:06:39] <csehl> greycat: /usr/sbin/lightdm
2572 [22:06:59] <greycat> OK, you can google "configuring lightdm" or whatever.
2573 [22:07:17] <csehl> greycat: so these really are two separate configurations, one coming from X, the other from lightdm. debian just matches them up, so i don't notice
2574 [22:07:22] <greycat> It also has a man page, but I don't know how complete its man page is.
2575 [22:07:27] <csehl> greycat: thanks
2576 [22:07:49] <greycat> The configuration for ph's X session and the configuration for lightdm are completely separate.
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2578 [22:08:51] <agio> rk4: nice, thanks
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2580 [22:09:40] <choice> csehl: Is there a file /home/ph/.xsession ?
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2583 [22:10:31] <storrgie> coming from arch to debian and I'm trying to get settled in... I'm wonderign a couple things, the first is: is aptitude still a maintaned project separate from apt-get?
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2585 [22:10:36] <storrgie> (and is one preferred)?
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2608 [22:15:59] <storrgie> also is there a way to install gnome but not get _all of the games and other things_?
2609 [22:16:06] <greycat> !install gnome
2610 [22:16:06] <dpkg> To install GNOME: «apt-get install …» 1. 'task-gnome-desktop' (Debian installer default) 2. 'gnome' (recommended) 3. 'gnome-desktop-environment' (upstream GNOME) 4. 'gnome-core' (like 3, minus end-user applications) 5. 'gnome-session gdm3 network-manager-gnome' (minimalist, not recommended). You will need Xorg installed as well, ask me about <install x>. replaced-url
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2612 [22:17:04] <storrgie> thank you greycat
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2614 [22:17:39] <storrgie> greycat, it seems like I'm not in a great state after selecting to _not_ install the "standard system utilities"
2615 [22:18:06] <greycat> you can install them as needed
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2617 [22:19:27] <n4dir> you could also use tasksel again to install all of them now. i think.
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2624 [22:21:50] <annadane> hmm. replaced-url
2625 [22:22:02] <annadane> "Start the installation in expert mode. After selecting a mirror you will be asked which distribution to install: stable, testing or unstable. We recommend using a daily build of the installer to install testing or unstable."
2626 [22:22:42] <annadane> it's !testing installer
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2630 [22:23:27] <agio> n4dir: ok, Ive read `man crypttab'. I'm now interested to know how setup an automount arrangement for a LUKS partition.
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2633 [22:23:54] <n4dir> agio: wasn't me who pointed you to the manpage. I don't do such.
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2638 [22:25:07] <agio> n4dir: you're right, sorry
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2640 [22:26:26] <n4dir> agio: look if that helps: replaced-url
2641 [22:26:44] <agio> I assume if I put an entry for my encrypted partition in /etc/crypttab - the kernel will automatically insert a mapped device into /dev/mapper/<name>
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2643 [22:27:04] <agio> which maps back to the encrypted partition
2644 [22:28:35] <n4dir> and then you mount it like usual via /etc/fstab. To me it looks like that. been a while i did it.
2645 [22:28:57] <agio> n4dir: thanks, yes, thats how it looks to me too :)
2646 [22:29:06] <n4dir> good luck then :-)
2647 [22:29:54] <agio> thanks
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2661 [22:38:21] <storrgie> annadane, I'm actually getting into that now. I didn't see an option for selecting/entering unstable... I just assumed I had to do that post-install
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2686 [22:50:13] <storrgie> I'm curious, I just did two installs... on one I get a grub window that has debian graphics, on the other its just blue on black... is there a package to make grub have debian graphics?
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2691 [22:54:30] <SerajewelKS> same version of debian?
2692 [22:54:37] <storrgie> same install media
2693 [22:54:44] <storrgie> i guess on the other one I didn't select gnome
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2695 [22:54:55] <storrgie> maybe thats the difference, gnome installs something that styles grub?
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2698 [22:56:06] <SerajewelKS> does one have grub2-splashimages but not the other?
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2701 [22:56:26] <storrgie> I'd bet that's the case (just found grub2-splashimages)
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2703 [22:57:17] <SerajewelKS> i don't see any rdepends on it
2704 [22:57:26] <SerajewelKS> so nothing should install it automatically except maybe the installer
2705 [22:57:47] <storrgie> !install sid
2706 [22:57:47] <dpkg> If you have to ask, you shouldn't. No, really. #debian does not normally support sid because if you are using sid, then you should be able to support yourself. Often, sid is not installable as it is frequently broken. You must first install "testing" and then "upgrade" to sid. If you don't know how to do this, then you shouldn't be using sid anyway. Ask me about <sid> <sid faq> <why not unstable>.
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2746 [23:21:34] <galaxie> If the version of Java installed for Stretch is 1.8.0_181 but I need Java 1.8.0_40+, what's the best way to go about upgrading? I see there's some sort of PPA available, and that it just downloads an installer, but what should I do?
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2768 [23:32:49] <RoyK> galaxie: isn't 181 > 40?
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2770 [23:33:33] <RoyK> !ppa
2771 [23:33:34] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
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