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• 51[00:37:17] <juangh> hello there #debian
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• 53[00:38:03] <juangh> please, i would like a link, or some document, where i could read about the way to create a debian base distro
• 54[00:38:26] <juangh> i want to derivate a personal distro with some especific tools
• 55[00:39:06] <juangh> i would like to do it from terminal, i would like a link...
• 56[00:39:11] <juangh> thanks!
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• 59[00:43:55] <EdePopede> juangh: does the last part of replaced-url
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• 62[00:45:12] <juangh> i read about it, but, there is no a guide, i will check it again EdePopede...Thanks!
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• 64[00:45:59] <EdePopede> juangh: if you follow th link to Blends, there's a manual linked (i only wanted to set you to the beginning of the path ;))
• 65[00:46:25] <juangh> replaced-url
• 66[00:46:26] <n4dir> juangh: quite a while ago i tried refractasnapshot: replaced-url
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• 69[00:46:50] <n4dir> it's just a script, so it can be done just with commands.
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• 71[00:47:05] <juangh> accessing n4dir
• 72[00:47:06] <juangh> thanks
• 73[00:47:16] <juangh> reading and searching things
• 74[00:47:49] <n4dir> juangh: if you need actual info, go to debianuserforums.org, refracta subforum, and ask there. Pretty silent there, but he answers quickly (usually)
• 75[00:48:05] <juangh> thanks
• 76[00:48:24] <juangh> I want to make a project...
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• 79[00:48:52] <juangh> i want to create a new distro for industrial enginner (i'm)
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• 81[00:49:52] <juangh> and i'm python developer too, and i use django as framework...so, i want to build this distro, with a few of tools that can be used to any who can need it...
• 82[00:50:05] * EdePopede wondering if Debian Games uses psdoom
• 83[00:50:13] <juangh> so, thanks, any help or tutos, about way to creat it, is welcome...
• 84[00:50:28] <juangh> i will start to read rigth now...
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• 86[00:50:39] <juangh> ah!, +10 years using debian!
• 87[00:50:41] <n4dir> juangh: very vague remembering, but it is well possible that antiX also had/has such a tool. Ask in their forum too, perhaps
• 88[00:50:48] <juangh> :-D
• 89[00:51:07] <juangh> thanks, taking notes here...
• 90[00:51:11] <juangh> antiX
• 91[00:51:13] <juangh> thanks
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• 94[00:51:22] <n4dir> juangh: with refractasnapshot you install debian, configure it to your liking, then run said script and you will get a bootable and installable *iso.
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• 96[00:51:42] <juangh> rigth now...doing it rigth now
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• 98[00:52:21] <n4dir> you could do it with live-helper, now live-builder, iirc, too, the official debian tool. But that option was removed. All if i recall correct. Been years i fooled with such
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• 111[01:01:48] <akko> monkey soup
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• 151[01:39:45] <pink_vampire> hi
• 152[01:40:02] <kiteless> One last try before the end of the day-- anyone good with preseed here?
• 153[01:40:21] <pink_vampire> i need some help with a keyboad configuration
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• 156[01:41:21] <pink_vampire> how do i find the key code for the volume keys?
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• 164[01:47:53] <awal1> run xev from terminal and press the desired key, pink_vampire
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• 170[01:50:41] <pink_vampire> awal1: i just get 0 0 0 0 00
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• 174[01:57:50] <michael2> you should get somethink like: XF86AudioRaiseVolume
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• 177[02:00:18] <pink_vampire> michael2: i know,
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• 214[02:35:40] <daniel-s_> I am using Thunderbird + enigmail. It's prompting me to type my password for my gpg key every time it accesses it. There is no cacheing. What do I need to install?
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• 219[02:37:12] <pagetelegram> enigmail will prompt you to install pgp support files; however you are having an issue having to type your password each time you load the email program? That is not an issue, that is a security measure
• 220[02:38:47] <pagetelegram> For convienance I use a macro keyboard to program passwords in it. So just press of a key inserts password at cursor. So you might consider a macro keypad. I use an old Mextel one (ancient) tho I'm sure there are soft and hardware options for today.
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• 231[02:43:49] <daniel-s_> pagetelegram: I do get a message from enigmail telling me that it can't connect with my password manager. As I understand regular behaviour is to cache a password in memory then timeout after a while. I'm getting asked for a password every single time. That includes twice if I'm signing+encrypting a message.
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• 233[02:43:59] <daniel-s_> I'm still googling for a solution.
• 234[02:44:45] <daniel-s_> Thanks for your help so far.
• 235[02:46:33] <awal1> daniels-s_, maybe gnom-keyring/thunderbid-gnome-keyring related? just maybe, if you have those pkgs
• 236[02:48:23] <awal1> i don't use neither of those
• 237[02:48:34] <awal1> so no much clue, anyway :P
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• 278[03:24:15] <garyserj> $ for i in $(seq 1 2) do; do printf 'asdf'; done <-- Why does that display asdf three times?
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• 281[03:25:56] <phogg> garyserj: you have an extra "do"
• 282[03:27:15] <phogg> first it expands to "for i in 1 2 do ; do printf 'asdf' ; done" and then loops 3 times: 1, 2, do.
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• 286[03:29:04] <garyserj> thanks
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• 2512[03:46:54] <daniel-s_> Oooh, the server is upset.
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• 2612[03:51:07] <yakiza> Kyros: allo o/
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• 2715[04:06:19] <juangh> wonderful! really wonderful!
• 2716[04:06:39] <awal1> juangh ?
• 2717[04:06:40] <juangh> live-build project is the solution to create new distros...
• 2718[04:06:56] <juangh> yes awal1?
• 2719[04:07:21] <awal1> what is wonderful?
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• 2721[04:07:31] <juangh> thanks to edepopede and n4cht for your help
• 2722[04:07:39] <juangh> the chance to create your own distro
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• 2724[04:07:55] <juangh> with your personal configurations...
• 2725[04:08:07] <awal1> h (Y)
• 2726[04:08:27] <juangh> there are a lot of project about this with out suppert
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• 2728[04:08:30] <juangh> support
• 2729[04:08:42] *** Joins: Kk2 (~Kk2@replaced-ip)
• 2730[04:09:01] <juangh> but the one that is working for me, is live-build
• 2731[04:09:25] <juangh> replaced-url
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• 2754[04:31:13] <zzz> im getting "locale-gen: command not found" but have locales installed. what am i missing?
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• 2762[04:38:26] <EdePopede> zzz: locales: /usr/sbin/locale-gen --- only in root's $PATH
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• 2765[04:43:29] <zzz> EdePopede: what do you mean?
• 2766[04:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1230
• 2767[04:44:31] <EdePopede> if you didn't call that command as root, it probably is not in your path. (what does `echo $PATH` say?)
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• 2771[04:47:28] <EdePopede> btw, my text has been the output of `dpkg-query -S $(which locale-gen)` run as root, alternative: `dpkg-query -S $(sudo which locale-gen)`
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• 2776[04:50:19] <zzz> EdePopede: thanks i got it!
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• 2799[05:15:25] <jim> hi... what's the difference between allow-hotplug eth0 and auto eth0?
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• 2820[05:34:15] <mindcrimes> hey
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• 2823[05:34:50] <mindcrimes> logging into ssh is extremely slow and idk why
• 2824[05:35:03] <mindcrimes> did strace su and it hung on this
• 2825[05:35:03] <mindcrimes> recvmsg(4, {msg_namelen=0}, MSG_DONTWAIT|MSG_NOSIGNAL|MSG_CMSG_CLOEXEC) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
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• 2837[05:50:01] <mindcrimes> systemd-logind.service: Failed with result 'timeout'.
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• 2939[07:07:59] <maxzrh> i have windows and macOS, i also have a separate partition for debian
• 2940[07:08:11] <maxzrh> and i have refind
• 2941[07:08:20] <maxzrh> how much will it mess up if i install debian
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• 2981[07:48:58] <pingfloyd> maybe you should skip the grub install step and then edit refind
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• 3243[09:51:00] <hipodilski> anyone having problems with nautilus on debian stable?
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• 3247[09:51:47] <Haohmaru> it might help if you mention what kinds of problems
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• 3251[09:53:26] <hipodilski> Haohmaru: desktop icons are not opened in nautilus
• 3252[09:53:40] <hipodilski> nautilus works fine if executed from terminal
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• 3256[09:54:53] <Haohmaru> does the same thing work on your machine thru another file manager?
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• 3269[10:00:47] <hipodilski> Haohmaru: yes dolphin opens instead
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• 3368[11:01:32] <a-l-e> since debian-next seems to be invitation only...
• 3369[11:02:13] <blackflow> a-l-e: it's not though, you're on the wrong network.
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• 3372[11:02:44] <a-l-e> ah... i should read the subject to its end...
• 3373[11:02:46] <blackflow> #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net . this is Freenode.
• 3374[11:02:49] <a-l-e> thanks blackflow
• 3375[11:03:00] <blackflow> yw
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• 3381[11:04:24] <a-l-e> ... and if better check if the router is on, i wouldn't even have to aks questions... : - (
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• 3383[11:04:57] <rgr> getting help on debian-next is rarer than hen's teeth anyway. but its not invite only.
• 3384[11:05:28] <blackflow> the bot has a message wrt "invite only" but I forgot the trigger
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• 3392[11:11:55] <a-l-e> i got kicked by the bot in debian-next and debian-testing... it would be more helpful it it could give the message to log into #debian-next on oftc ...
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• 3394[11:17:27] <BCMM> !#debian-next
• 3395[11:17:27] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 3396[11:17:39] <BCMM> blackflow: that was the trigger ^
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• 3400[11:20:03] <pongo> hii
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• 3408[11:25:05] <blackflow> BCMM: ooh thanks.
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• 3447[11:48:26] <warai_otoko> is there a package to fully use the Logitech K400 keyboard with all of its special keys?
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• 3524[12:39:38] <dustfinger> Hi, I am trying to perform xforwarding. The server is debian, but it is running in docker. In my serverside ~/.ssh/config I have replaced-url
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• 3527[12:40:33] <dustfinger> I think that i am really close to having this setup correctly. It is not clear to me from the verbose output what is causing XForwarding to ultimately fail.
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• 3530[12:45:49] <bolovanos_> hithere
• 3531[12:46:27] <bolovanos_> which sysctl.conf applies
• 3532[12:46:27] <bolovanos_> "/etc/sysctl.conf" or "/etc/sysctl.d/99-sysctl.conf"
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• 3534[12:47:24] <bolovanos_> debian 9
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• 3540[12:49:35] <rephlexie> dustfinger, have your sshd_config handy by chance?
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• 3544[12:51:47] <dustfinger> yes.
• 3545[12:52:18] <dustfinger> rephlexie: I pasted it in pastebin: replaced-url
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• 3547[12:53:56] <dustfinger> rephlexie: my local .ssh/config is a copy of /etc/ssh/ssh_config with local modifications applied.
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• 3549[12:55:07] <dustfinger> rephlexie: ohh.. sorry, I see you are asking for sshd config.. one moment.
• 3550[12:55:16] <rephlexie> dustfinger, yep!
• 3551[12:55:48] <rephlexie> dustfinger, you have to tweak that a bit as well last time I fooled with it.
• 3552[12:57:02] <dustfinger> rephlexie: replaced-url
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• 3555[12:58:45] <dustfinger> rephlexie: I didn't even think to look in this file -- face in palm.
• 3556[12:58:48] <rephlexie> add 'X11Forwarding yes'
• 3557[12:58:57] <dustfinger> rephlexie: Thanks, i will do that now.
• 3558[12:59:41] <rephlexie> dustfinger, yeah theres a bit more to it depending on if you are using ipv6, on a lan etc etc. dontforget to restart it
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• 3561[13:02:02] <dustfinger> rephlexie: It still fails. I did restart /etc/init.d/ssh. I am using ipv6.
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• 3564[13:03:24] <rephlexie> restart sshd too after adding that line
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• 3567[13:05:01] <pink_vampire> i need some help with a keyboad configuration
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• 3569[13:05:17] <pink_vampire> i just can't get the keyboard keycode from xev
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• 3573[13:05:34] <pink_vampire> this is what i'm getting in xev for "volume up" "volume down" "mute"
• 3574[13:05:43] <pink_vampire> replaced-url
• 3575[13:05:53] <pink_vampire> any idea?
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• 3578[13:06:39] <dustfinger> rephlexie: I am sorry, I did not paste the entire sshd config. Here is is in full: replaced-url
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• 3592[13:15:20] <dustfinger> rephlexie: I did restart ssh. What things must I consider if using ipv6? That is what I am using.
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• 3594[13:15:47] <rephlexie> dustfinger, trying to find the wiki I used.
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• 3596[13:16:40] <rephlexie> dustfinger, problem is more when use disable ipv6 so no worries, I think you issue is with your sshd_conf.
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• 3598[13:18:17] <dustfinger> rephlexie: I got it working :-)
• 3599[13:18:29] <dustfinger> it was with sshd_conf. One second...
• 3600[13:18:35] <rephlexie> dustfinger, WOOT! awesome man, cheers!!!!!!
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• 3606[13:19:49] <dustfinger> I had to set X11UseLocalhost no
• 3607[13:20:14] <rephlexie> dustfinger, nice!
• 3608[13:20:16] <dustfinger> rephlexie: Thank you very much for your help. I don't know how much time I would have wasted if you had not pointed me to the sshd_config.
• 3609[13:20:42] <dustfinger> I wonder if those settings can be set per user.
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• 3612[13:21:51] <rephlexie> dustfinger, no problem man, cheers!
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• 3630[13:33:38] <JohnA> I run my own DNS (Bind9) . While looking for something else I came across "/usr/share/dns" which has 3 files root.ds, root.hints, root.key, ignoring root.hints what are these files used for?
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• 3651[13:46:28] <maxzor> Hello, very noob question, I have debian in a vm, if i export path it only remains in the current session, how to add it permanently?
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• 3653[13:47:11] <blackflow> maxzor: stick that export line in ~/.bashrc or similar. note the interactive vs non-interactive session and different rc files used
• 3654[13:47:12] <petn-randall> maxzor: You can for example add it to your ~/.bashrc., assuming you're using bash as your shell.
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• 3657[13:48:06] <kopper> Or you could use .profile
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• 3662[13:52:08] <maxzor> thank you
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• 3665[13:53:48] <RoyK> JohnA: seems those files are installed with dns-root-data, required by dnsmasq - not related to bind9
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• 3687[14:04:56] <JohnA> RoyK: Thanks, google was not my friend on this one.
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• 3734[14:34:00] <scardinal> I just tried a aptitude safe-upgrade which went wrong. It's a stretch system. Aptitude says: failed: Undefined subroutine &Getopt::Long::Configure called at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Config.pm line 174.\nE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)\nCan't locate object method \"new\" via package \"FileHandle\" (perhaps you forgot to load \"FileHandle\"?) at /usr/share/perl5/DebianLinux.pm line
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• 3736[14:34:06] <scardinal> 119. Can someone please help me figure out what is wrong?
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• 3738[14:34:53] <themill> pastebinning the whole output might help
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• 3744[14:38:31] <scardinal> replaced-url
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• 3753[14:43:56] <themill> scardinal: what are you upgrading from and to? (Why is debconf being configured just now?)
• 3754[14:44:48] <petn-randall> scardinal: Did you by chance install Perl or any modules globally onto the system?
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• 3757[14:45:31] <scardinal> themill: It's just a regular system update of a stretch system. When it failed I found someone writing that reinstalling debconf would fix it. It didn't and now I am kinda stuck
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• 3759[14:45:52] <scardinal> petn-randall: Not to my knowledge :)
• 3760[14:46:26] <scardinal> themill: it's at 9.5
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• 3762[14:46:36] <scardinal> themill: so guess security updates
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• 3764[14:46:48] <themill> scardinal: what does "dpkg --verify perl-modules-5.24 perl-base" output?
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• 3766[14:47:51] <scardinal> themill: Guess it tells us somethings wrong with perl: replaced-url
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• 3768[14:48:13] <scardinal> themill: or ? :)
• 3769[14:48:32] <themill> well those files are missing; you could reinstall those two packages
• 3770[14:48:42] <themill> but then the question becomes "why are those files missing"
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• 3772[14:48:59] <themill> either someone deleted them, your filesystem is unhappy or your disk is dying.
• 3773[14:49:03] <RoyK> JohnA: next time, just try dpkg -S /some/filename and it should show you which package that file came from
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• 3778[14:50:00] <scardinal> themill: okay I will try reinstalling them and see if that is possible
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• 3785[14:54:05] <scardinal> themill: I did "apt-get install perl-modules-5.24 perl-base --reinstall" but the verify still gives me the same result
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• 3792[14:56:00] <themill> did apt actually download and install something for you then?
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• 3795[14:57:53] <scardinal> themill: I think so it did write "get" a few times: replaced-url
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• 3799[14:59:39] <themill> scardinal: I assume /usr/share/perl/5.24.1/FileHandle.pm doesn't exist?
• 3800[15:00:15] <scardinal> themill: it is there
• 3801[15:00:26] <themill> hm
• 3802[15:00:52] <themill> perl-modules-5.24 wasn't actually reinstalled in that run, interestingly
• 3803[15:01:10] <scardinal> themill: though less'ing it it looks kinda strange. The first part is readable the rest is ^@ characters
• 3804[15:01:18] <themill> ah
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• 3808[15:02:17] <themill> Before we poke much more, do you have backups?
• 3809[15:02:40] <scardinal> themill: No but I can do a snapshot first
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• 3813[15:03:07] <pink_vampire> where is the "startup" settings / configuration in XFCE?
• 3814[15:03:22] <themill> scardinal: if it's a hardware problem, that's of minimal benefit
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• 3816[15:03:24] <pink_vampire> i want to remove "xfce4-volumed" from the boot
• 3817[15:03:46] <themill> scardinal: having the wrong contents inside a file is not usually a sign of health and happiness
• 3818[15:03:47] <scardinal> themill: I don't think it is because I am running several other stretch VM's on the hardware with no issue
• 3819[15:03:56] <scardinal> themill: true :)
• 3820[15:04:32] <scardinal> themill: I have to go for a bit but will be back later. Thank you for your help so far :)
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• 3825[15:05:37] <themill> scardinal: no worries, good luck!
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• 3830[15:08:07] <SerajewelKS> scardinal: "some stuff works" doesn't really mean there isn't a hardware issue
• 3831[15:08:29] <SerajewelKS> perhaps an HDD sector is bad, but the drive isn't detecting it as bad and so it's returning garbage, for example
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• 3833[15:08:42] <SerajewelKS> that would only affect whatever single file is using that sector
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• 3888[15:28:06] <queip> when ever I switch to other virtual termianl, then Konversation loses connection to IRC. how to fix this
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• 3896[15:39:09] <kirk781> Switch to a better IRC client
• 3897[15:39:10] <FinalX> ,v apache2
• 3898[15:39:11] <judd> Package: apache2 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.2.22-13+deb7u6; wheezy-security: 2.2.22-13+deb7u13; jessie: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; jessie-security: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; stretch-security: 2.4.25-3+deb9u4; stretch: 2.4.25-3+deb9u5; buster: 2.4.34-1; sid: 2.4.35-1
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• 3949[16:04:16] <regdude> Hi! If I install a new drive only for SWAP, then is it sufficient if I only use "mkswap" without formating the drive to MBR or GPT?
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• 3951[16:05:35] <petn-randall> regdude: You *can* do it that way, but then of course it'll look like an empty disk if you ever move drives. So I'd always create partitions to "document" such things.
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• 3954[16:07:16] <jhutchins_wk> regdude: How much swap are you planning on having?
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• 3956[16:07:39] <regdude> petn-randall: the disk is going to be used only for swap, so I suppose then it is fine. The disk stands out for all others so I shouldn't mess up the drive names
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• 3958[16:08:06] <SerajewelKS> regdude: you should activate the swap partition by its UUID anyway so that the drive attachment order doesn't matter
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• 3961[16:08:56] <regdude> jhutchins_wk: all the drive, I'm too embarrassed to say how much, but quite a lot
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• 3963[16:09:26] <petn-randall> regdude: Fine by me. I'm just saying from experience, I had several blank disks in a RAID1, and they got screwed up later because someone else assumed they were unused.
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• 3983[16:17:34] <jhutchins_wk> regdude: You might want to reconsider. Over about 4G trying to manage swap will really affect performance if it's ever used. The system consumes all of it's resources swapping.
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• 3985[16:18:06] <jhutchins_wk> regdude: If you get that far beyond your physical memory you need to address the cause rather than just band-aid it.
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• 3988[16:18:38] <chmd> Hi there! My debian vps is losing ipv6 connectivity after ~2h. How can I debug this?
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• 3991[16:19:30] <jhutchins_wk> chmd: I'd start by asking your provider abou it.
• 3992[16:19:32] <chmd> Here is my config: replaced-url
• 3993[16:20:09] <chmd> jhutchins_wk: I am suspecting the problem is actually with dhclient
• 3994[16:20:28] <chmd> I am using prefix delegation, which works
• 3995[16:20:45] <chmd> but somehow the lease is not renewed or something like this
• 3996[16:21:05] <chmd> I heard other people had success when replacing dhclient with dibbler
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• 3998[16:21:22] <chmd> but I can't find how to do it properly on debian
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• 4000[16:21:57] <chmd> (properly = using /etc/network/interfaces.d)
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• 4006[16:23:18] <pagios> hi all, i have a weird problem. i did set a mask to create mask 777 , and now when i create a new file from windows into the samba share i get rwxrwxrwx, if i try to copy and paste that file from inside the samba share i get a rwsrwx-rx why?
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• 4011[16:26:43] <SerajewelKS> pagios: do you mean rwsrwxr-x?
• 4012[16:26:55] <SerajewelKS> or something else? "rwsrwx-rx" is something ls would not say
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• 4020[16:28:15] <pagios> no
• 4021[16:28:22] <pagios> rwxrwxr-x
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• 4024[16:28:33] <SerajewelKS> oh. so NOT rws?
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• 4029[16:29:21] <jhutchins_wk> pagios: Samba manages access control internally, it doesn't use the *nix permissions.
• 4030[16:29:49] <SerajewelKS> jhutchins_wk: samba both reads and writes the permission bits
• 4031[16:30:07] <pagios> a new file created works fine, a copy of that file doesnt set correct permissions
• 4032[16:30:12] <jhutchins_wk> SerajewelKS: Yes, but it presents the files according to the share configuration in samba.
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• 4035[16:30:41] <SerajewelKS> right. but permissions can still control access to those files both from samba and from the rest of the system
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• 4037[16:30:57] <SerajewelKS> so "doesn't use the *nix permissions" is very misleading at best and wrong at worst
• 4038[16:31:11] <pagios> what should i do
• 4039[16:31:14] <SerajewelKS> assuming a Security=user samba setup, permissions are extremely relevant
• 4040[16:31:24] <pagios> i dont have security = user
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• 4042[16:31:40] <SerajewelKS> regardless, they still get used. you just get to pick a user for each share.
• 4043[16:32:19] <SerajewelKS> where are you setting the mask?
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• 4052[16:33:27] <pagios> on the share
• 4053[16:33:33] <pagios> create mask 777
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• 4057[16:33:50] <pagios> i want that directory to be read/write/execute by every authenticated user
• 4058[16:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1296
• 4059[16:34:54] <SerajewelKS> pagios: "DOS" permissions get conveyed by samba, so windows (presumably) is setting a mode that implies "don't let everyone write to the file" which gets translated to a lack of write bit for others in the unix model. samba respects this.
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• 4061[16:35:13] <SerajewelKS> pagios: if you are using Security=share then the file *already is* accessible by every authenticated user *via samba*
• 4062[16:35:21] <SerajewelKS> because they will be the owner, necessarily
• 4063[16:35:47] <SerajewelKS> however, if you want to tell samba to ignore the permissions windows wants on the file, you can set "force create mode = 0777"
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• 4065[16:36:02] <SerajewelKS> you will probably also want "force directory mode = 0777" in that case
• 4066[16:36:25] <SerajewelKS> though i'd argue world-writable is not a good idea
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• 4068[16:36:36] <SerajewelKS> but there's the rope, do with it what you will
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• 4080[16:39:32] <pagios> doesnt work
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• 4087[16:42:13] <SerajewelKS> it should. make sure you reloaded/restarted samba. note that permissions on existing files are not changed.
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• 4095[16:47:37] <pagios> didnt work
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• 4099[16:48:11] <SerajewelKS> no idea then
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• 4101[16:48:27] <SerajewelKS> but like i said, all samba users in Security=share mode only care about the owner permissions, which are rwx
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• 4142[17:19:55] <jhutchins> !samba
• 4143[17:19:56] <dpkg> Samba is a Unix implementation of Windows file/print sharing (the SMB/CIFS protocol). replaced-url
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• 4166[17:33:15] <pagios> ok
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• 4170[17:34:34] <RoyK> pagios: samba works well - you just have to configure it correctly, and change the local ACL settings on the filesystem
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• 4173[17:36:17] <pagios> i found it
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• 4175[17:36:21] <pagios> set obey pam = no
• 4176[17:36:25] <pagios> for anyone if interested
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• 4196[17:48:11] <jhutchins> I worked on some of the original documentation for samba, but I feel like I'd have to completel start from scratch to get it working today.
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• 4218[18:00:32] <jasperarcola> Is there a prefered way to install nodejs/npm on stretch? that will work with future debian provided packages?
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• 4224[18:01:13] <jasperarcola> is this (presumably the best atm): replaced-url
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• 4227[18:02:12] <ksk> jasperarcola: ask the nodejs people, there was one way which was "OKAY" but its a 3rd party thing then, and not really scope of this channel
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• 4236[18:04:17] <ksk> apart from "wget $internet | sudo ..." this looks okay to me, as it uses apt/dpkg to handle the installation somehow
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• 4321[18:41:00] <tharkun> Good $DAY. I have this weird isue. I have a file with the following permissions. -rw-r--r-- 1 tharkun tharkun filename.html but when as tharkun I type rm filename.html I get: rm: cannot remove 'filename.html': Permission denied
• 4322[18:41:23] <jasperarcola> do you have write permission on the directory it's in?
• 4323[18:41:29] <tharkun> I am doing lxe and urxvt with zsh as shell
• 4324[18:41:36] <tharkun> jasperarcola: yes
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• 4331[18:43:06] <greycat> Removing a file requires write permission on the DIRECTORY it's in. It does not require any permissions on the file itself, unless the dir is sticky.
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• 4335[18:44:15] <jasperarcola> getfacl what does getfacl <filename> show? you might have an acl on it
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• 4337[18:44:45] <tharkun> greycat: it shouldn't be how do I check it. The weirdest part is that it is not only for this particular directory but I believe it is all over the filesystem assign to this particular user.
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• 4339[18:45:09] <greycat> If you're in the directory, just do "ls -ld ."
• 4340[18:45:11] <jasperarcola> also maybe install xattr and see if there are extended attributes for the file?
• 4341[18:45:38] <greycat> Then do "id" **** WITH NO USERNAME ARGUMENT **** to see the current process's UID, GID, and groups.
• 4342[18:46:14] <greycat> I have to emphasize that one extra hard, because if I don't, some people will do "id myname" instead. And that gives a very different answer.
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• 4344[18:47:30] <jasperarcola> also try lsattr <filename> it might have other, different attributes, like e.g. immutable
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• 4346[18:48:08] <tharkun> greycat: ls -ld displayed the isue, but Why would a dir would change from drwxr-xr-x to dr-xr-xr-x ?
• 4347[18:48:29] <greycat> If it's immutable, you get "Operation not permitted" instead of "Permission denied".
• 4348[18:48:46] <greycat> tharkun: someone did a chmod, or restored a tar archive over it, or similar
• 4349[18:48:58] <tharkun> I don't recall doing that. Is there a log or any place I can retrace and debug what happened?
• 4350[18:49:06] <greycat> Very unlikely.
• 4351[18:49:19] <brain-damage> my gaseous emissions smell like rotten ice cream.
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• 4354[18:49:28] <brain-damage> i cracked the corn
• 4355[18:49:40] <tharkun> greycat: hmm, I am the only user for this laptop so it is puzzling.
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• 4357[18:50:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
• 4358[18:50:03] <tharkun> greycat: Anyway. Thanks for the guidance
• 4359[18:50:11] *** greycat sets mode: +q *!*@349.s.hostens.cloud
• 4360[18:50:22] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
• 4361[18:50:43] <spackle259> What is the best way to run an application isolated or like in a sandbox? besides via docker
• 4362[18:50:44] * tharkun tips hat on greycat's general direction
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• 4364[18:50:50] *** Parts: brain-damage (~retarded@replaced-ip) ()
• 4365[18:50:58] <tharkun> spackle259: chroot
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• 4367[18:52:26] <spackle259> tharkun: what do i do for gui based application?
• 4368[18:52:38] <n4dir> xhost or xnest spackle259
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• 4372[18:54:15] <tharkun> spackle259: I live in the headless world with no gui but the minimum required. You can build a virtual machine and connect remotly to it. Then you know your purposse and what you really need. So feel free to /msg dpkg and ask ddg for solutions.
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• 4381[18:56:12] <n4dir> replaced-url
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• 4389[18:58:52] <spackle259> tharkun: yeah i know what you mean. I also run a lot of my processes in chroot but one problem i ran into is when i downloaded chromium and tried using it in chroot environment. I read online that you can use x11 forwarding but im not sure what exactly that means
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• 4391[18:59:13] <greycat> ssh -X user@host
• 4392[18:59:36] <greycat> Lets you run X client applications from the remote host (or from localhost) on your current local X server display.
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• 4441[19:23:29] <tharkun> I know this is not the place but I want to pick into everyones experience. I need a webframework that is insanely fast. It will be doing mostly I/O to a db and access some webservices and maybe a websocket or two. Any suggestions?
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• 4444[19:24:05] <tharkun> Choosing criteria is stability and speed.
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• 4447[19:24:55] <petn-randall> tharkun: "webframework", "insanely fast". You get to pick one.
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• 4451[19:25:39] <petn-randall> tharkun: Usually you pick the web framework within the programming language you intend to use.
• 4452[19:25:43] <tharkun> petn-randall: Every framework listed on google claims exactly that. So I really tend to discredit those who say so.
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• 4458[19:27:20] <tharkun> petn-randall: I have quite a few sites running perl's Catalyst but it is hard to get perl programmers now a days. So if I am to switch tools I might as well switch to something insanely faster and with more programmers at hand than perl.
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• 4460[19:28:21] <petn-randall> tharkun: So your criteria are not "stability" and "speed", but "programmers available that are fluent in that framework".
• 4461[19:28:26] <n4dir> isn't ruby the big thing when it comes to web-development ?
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• 4463[19:28:53] <greycat> I'm *so* glad people aren't saying PHP any more.
• 4464[19:29:04] <petn-randall> tharkun: I'd go with python/django, but that's just my favourite.
• 4465[19:29:10] <n4dir> i would be so glad if people would say perl ... :-)
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• 4467[19:29:36] <tharkun> petn-randall: except for perl, I have abundance of programmers. For some reason the universities never had perl on their curricula.
• 4468[19:29:42] <tharkun> So really no isue with that.
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• 4470[19:30:18] <tharkun> greycat: PHP has given me enough headaches to have a strong opinion about it.
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• 4476[19:32:08] <tharkun> C/C++ are still beeing tought here. I don't think there is a webframework for those two ;P
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• 4478[19:34:46] <petn-randall> I don't think you'd want a web framework in those languages ...
• 4479[19:34:58] <petn-randall> Though I'm guessing it'll be "fast".
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• 4481[19:35:54] <tharkun> petn-randall: :D
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• 4523[20:00:43] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: They don't talk about PHP because it's already well established. Half the web is wordpress and drupal.
• 4524[20:01:40] <greycat> Those poor words, pressed into juice.
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• 4526[20:02:54] <DrJ> #PHPFTW
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• 4528[20:03:51] * DrJ waits
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• 4533[20:06:49] <jhutchins_wk> Our established apps are mostly java. Not sure what's going on in our AWS space.
• 4534[20:07:01] <jhutchins_wk> Plenty of .net as well.
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• 4595[20:50:24] <SerajewelKS> tharkun: it depends what you mean by "fast"
• 4596[20:51:08] <SerajewelKS> tharkun: if you're doing lots of compute work, you'll be hard pressed to get anything faster than in a compiled language like C or C++. if you're mostly waiting on I/O and then assembling results from that, something like nodejs would easily work.
• 4597[20:51:31] *** Quits: overlock (~root@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 4598[20:51:39] <SerajewelKS> consider, however, the cost of developing something insanely optimized compared to developing something quickly and throwing more/faster servers at it
• 4599[20:51:44] <beeman> hl
• 4600[20:51:46] <beeman> hi
• 4601[20:52:11] <SerajewelKS> servers are cheap; developers are not
• 4602[20:52:12] <beeman> wifi just disconnect like it was connect but no connection was and i think it's problem of power saving but im not sure in dmesg there is sometihng like: "wlp8s0: Limiting TX power to 20 (20 - 0) dBm as advertised by" and "wlp8s0: associate with ... (try 1/3) i found some answers touching files under /etc/modprobe.. but i have nothing related to wifi there
• 4603[20:52:34] <beeman> also i did deleted some profiles under system-connections
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• 4619[21:00:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
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• 4622[21:01:24] <tmroland> why cant i join any channels in empathy
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• 4624[21:01:41] <tmroland> only works 1-2 max
• 4625[21:01:44] <tmroland> and randomly
• 4626[21:02:01] <petn-randall> tmroland: This is with which OS release?
• 4627[21:02:06] <tmroland> arch
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• 4629[21:02:24] <petn-randall> tmroland: Ok, so what has this to do with Debian then?
• 4630[21:02:29] <tmroland> oh shit
• 4631[21:02:44] <petn-randall> tmroland: Ok, I was just as confused as you :)
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• 4640[21:06:20] <ebrasca> Hi
• 4641[21:06:27] <ebrasca> I get this error "Failed to set locale. Fix your system."
• 4642[21:06:37] <ebrasca> How I can fix it?
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• 4645[21:07:41] <beeman> help
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• 4648[21:07:51] <beeman> ebrasca: fix your system
• 4649[21:08:18] <beeman> tmroland_: lol
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• 4654[21:09:33] <ebrasca> beeman: It come from this command "sudo snapper status 1..0"
• 4655[21:09:39] <babilen> ebrasca: You might want to provide a bit more context .. when do you get that error? What have you done so far to address it? What was the outcome of that? When did that error appear and how does that state differ from the one before? (and so on)
• 4656[21:10:30] <ebrasca> I have purge locales ; install locales ; dpkg-reconfigure locales
• 4657[21:10:52] <babilen> A "dpkg-reconfigure locales" and checking your LC* env vars along with your sudoers settings might be an idea
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• 4660[21:12:32] <greycat> Instead of blindly deleting stuff like a Windows user, why not actually see what your locales are set to?
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• 4662[21:12:56] <greycat> Compare the output of "locale" and "sudo locale" for example.
• 4663[21:13:15] <ebrasca> babilen: It worked , thank you.
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• 4665[21:14:35] * babilen waves his hands ....
• 4666[21:14:39] <babilen> *magic*
• 4667[21:14:45] <beeman> !dpkg
• 4668[21:14:45] <dpkg> well, dpkg is the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
• 4669[21:14:50] <beeman> help..
• 4670[21:15:33] <ebrasca> !parabola
• 4671[21:15:33] <dpkg> Support for Parabola Linux can be found on #parabola on freenode. replaced-url
• 4672[21:15:46] <ebrasca> !devuan
• 4673[21:15:46] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
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• 4677[21:18:00] <babilen> dpkg: tell beeman -about ask
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• 4680[21:18:43] <beeman> wifi disconnected again :(
• 4681[21:18:48] <beeman> babilen: i have problem with wifi..
• 4682[21:19:00] <beeman> like wifi is connected but no connection to the internet
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• 4684[21:20:02] *** thesongoftheswor is now known as chaoticbits
• 4685[21:20:29] <chaoticbits> hello
• 4686[21:21:21] <petn-randall> hi chaoticbits
• 4687[21:21:25] <chaoticbits> I've been driving myself insane trying to get lightdm slick-greeter to work on Debian Buster. Does anyone have any ideas? Dropping the configuration files as appropriate and removing lightdm-gtk-greeter does nothing. It just keeps booting to lightdm-gtk-greeter no matter what.
• 4688[21:22:05] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
• 4689[21:22:06] <petn-randall> !debian-next
• 4690[21:22:06] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 4691[21:22:14] <petn-randall> chaoticbits: Try asking in this support channel. ^^^
• 4692[21:22:25] <chaoticbits> oh snap
• 4693[21:22:26] <chaoticbits> okay thanks
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• 4698[21:23:00] <petn-randall> chaoticbits: It's where all the other testing/sid users hang out.
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• 4720[21:37:28] <scardinal> SerajewelKS: true :)
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• 4738[21:46:25] <tsglove> The bot here is called dpkg.... cool name.
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• 4743[21:49:44] <phogg> tsglove: you're going to make judd feel bad
• 4744[21:49:58] <tsglove> judd!
• 4745[21:50:01] <tsglove> dpkg!
• 4746[21:50:05] <tsglove> now I broke them
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• 4751[21:52:36] <sine0> ok bare with me. my private server I have some files hosted and in one folder there is over 5k files, this causes timeout issues on scp etc. I understand. what Im wondering if is there any kind of 'gateway' or cdn type application that will fetch the files that have been archived in different directories
• 4752[21:53:08] <greycat> "timeout issues"??
• 4753[21:53:22] <sine0> yea, scp does not respond and times out
• 4754[21:53:30] <sine0> it is since I have uploaded the files i know that for sure
• 4755[21:53:34] <mutante> i wold try with rsync
• 4756[21:53:36] <greycat> that is just not normal at all
• 4757[21:53:40] <jhutchins_wk> rsync might work better.
• 4758[21:53:45] <tsglove> rsync!
• 4759[21:53:53] <sine0> ok so 5k files in a single dir should be no problem at all
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• 4761[21:54:20] <greycat> Sure, try rsync, but scanning a mere 5k files should not cause such a long delay that a command (or more likely a NAT connection) would *time out*.
• 4762[21:54:21] *** Quits: HugsWont1etgo (~HugsWontl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 4763[21:54:25] <sine0> if that is so greycat i will bow to you and leave it at that
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• 4767[21:54:55] <greycat> I mean, it's not optimal, and it could delay things, like a few dozen milliseconds. Enough to possibly notice. But not to time out a NAT connection or whatever.
• 4768[21:55:07] <sine0> sometimes i onnect with a windows gui app winscp, maybe its waiting for a directory comparison or fresh kind of thing
• 4769[21:55:23] <greycat> Oh, a *windows program* is timing out. Never mind.
• 4770[21:55:23] <sine0> refresh*
• 4771[21:55:49] *** emaldonaD_lunch is now known as emaldonadoD
• 4772[21:55:54] <sine0> hahaha
• 4773[21:56:14] <tsglove> even the ¨hahaha¨ almost timed out!
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• 4775[21:56:17] <sine0> it happens when I scp on the command line also
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• 4780[21:56:37] <jhutchins_wk> sine0: In windows?
• 4781[21:57:20] *** Joins: roshanavand (~roshanava@replaced-ip)
• 4782[21:57:29] <sine0> yea, and sometimes from another server that I have remoted in and from my home box, so aross the board, which leads me to think it was because of the 5k files i have recently added and that a cdn might be needed
• 4783[21:57:40] <sine0> the other 2 servers are deb
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• 4786[21:58:23] <greycat> Is the place where these 5k files live just BROKEN or something? How long does it take if you login normally there, cd to that directory, and do "ls > /dev/null"?
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• 4788[21:58:56] <greycat> How long does it actually take for your reported "time out" to occur? Did you time it?
• 4789[21:59:07] *** Joins: INIM (~pi@replaced-ip)
• 4790[21:59:23] <greycat> What is the actual symptom you observe? Is there an error message? Does the application terminate?
• 4791[22:00:13] *** Joins: woshty (~woshty@replaced-ip)
• 4792[22:00:27] <sine0> I have not done extensive testing, thanks for your time, I was kind of expecting you to say it was due to the files and that they shouldnt all be in a folder, in which case i would have put them in a cdn whcih someone suggested, but if you think there ok i will leave it for now and look back on it when the project is done
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• 4797[22:01:48] <vvor> Is there a way to apt-get the at program (executed at a) without it pulling exim too? As at is no longer in the default debian9 install is there a better way to get the same functionality?
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• 4799[22:02:04] <greycat> Splitting them into multiple directories (*cough* folders are made of paper) is more efficient, but only if the applications that need to access them are aware of the split.
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• 4801[22:02:24] <greycat> 5k in a single directory is not that bad. 50k, much much worse.
• 4802[22:02:24] <sine0> oh no did i say folder. i tried hard not to.
• 4803[22:02:30] <tsglove> -- ¨folders are made of paper¨ <-- I´m stealing that from now on.
• 4804[22:02:50] <greycat> vvor: why don't you want an MTA?
• 4805[22:02:51] <generic> how can I replace a webpage by a local version running on my webserver ? just a table in the routing table ?
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• 4808[22:03:37] <vvor> greycat: I dont need one one this server
• 4809[22:03:44] <soda__hobart> hi everybody, I was trying to install pipenv using pip but I left out the --user option and I think it overwrote the path to pip. I'm kinda confused, I've never messed with PATH or the other environment variables before. Is there a way that I can just completely re-install python and pip?
• 4810[22:03:59] <greycat> generic: if you mean an entire *host* and not a page, then perhaps you will be able to live with simply putting an entry in /etc/hosts pointing to a loopback IP address (127.*)
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• 4813[22:04:22] <greycat> vvor: then how is at supposed to send you the results?
• 4814[22:04:27] *** Parts: tytan (~toshiro@replaced-ip) ()
• 4815[22:04:55] <generic> greycat: tanks that sounds good
• 4816[22:05:49] <generic> greycat: the browser will ask the dns for the ip and use it I hope ?
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• 4818[22:06:37] <greycat> Most web browsers use the default hostname resolution procedures, which by default will look in /etc/hosts first and only consult DNS if the hostname isn't in the file.
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• 4821[22:07:38] <vvor> greycat: Don't need the results sent, just do the jub. I can see what I need from a web interface.
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• 4823[22:08:08] <ml|> Hello, are the following both correct and do the same thing? ... $ wget -O [URL] [file-name] OR $ wget -O [file-name] [URL]
• 4824[22:08:33] <generic> greycat: would that work on my nat-router too ?
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• 4826[22:08:42] <greycat> vvor: just install the god damned MTA and be happy
• 4827[22:08:43] <tsglove> TIAS ml|
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• 4830[22:09:02] <greycat> ml|: try it and see
• 4831[22:09:10] <generic> ml|: only the second one is
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• 4834[22:10:45] <ml|> Have only used $ wget -O [file-name] [URL], but recently saw the other; and was wondering on the difference.
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• 4843[22:13:45] <ml|> Well tried and it seems they both do the same thing.
• 4844[22:13:59] <greycat> that's actually astonishing
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• 4846[22:14:14] <ml|> heh
• 4847[22:14:35] <greycat> oh, it's an actual GNU program. bah. stupid GNU, pandering to the least common denominator and letting people develop more bad habits.
• 4848[22:14:48] <greycat> well, that sort of explains it
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• 4852[22:16:27] <vvor> greycat: Yep that is an option :-O ...
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• 4860[22:20:23] <yetoo> Does anacron for debian support the START_HOURS_RANGE variable for anacron? It's not documented in the man page
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• 4875[22:26:52] <yetoo> I see that I have the non-systemd cron and that package has a different man page than the systemd one
• 4876[22:27:00] <yetoo> even though I am running systemd
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• 4880[22:27:23] <RoyK> yetoo: never seen that - usually cron is installed, not anacron
• 4881[22:27:38] <yetoo> *i meant non-systemd anacron
• 4882[22:27:45] <yetoo> I hvae both installed
• 4883[22:27:53] <RoyK> cron isn't systemd, though
• 4884[22:28:17] <yetoo> I know, but the debian manpages website has it in the url
• 4885[22:28:18] <RoyK> systemd has scheduling, but it's not cron
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• 4887[22:28:31] <yetoo> replaced-url
• 4888[22:28:43] <RoyK> not sure - sorry
• 4889[22:28:44] <yetoo> that's for 1.5.8-1
• 4890[22:28:50] <yetoo> and I have 2.3-24
• 4891[22:29:00] <greycat> so, like, what is your actual question?
• 4892[22:29:11] <greycat> ,v anacron
• 4893[22:29:13] <judd> Package: anacron on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.3-19; jessie: 2.3-23; buster: 2.3-24; sid: 2.3-24; stretch: 2.3-24
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• 4895[22:29:21] <greycat> ,v systemd-cron
• 4896[22:29:22] <judd> Package: systemd-cron on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3.1+ds1-2; stretch: 1.5.8-1; buster: 1.5.13-1; sid: 1.5.13-1
• 4897[22:29:25] *** Joins: amcorreia (~amcorreia@replaced-ip)
• 4898[22:29:30] <yetoo> Why is the man page different
• 4899[22:29:46] <greycat> Because one is from the anacron package, and one is from the systemd-cron package.
• 4900[22:29:58] <greycat> It even says /systemd-cron/ in your URL which is how I knew the package name to give to judd.
• 4901[22:30:00] <yetoo> I get that
• 4902[22:30:10] <yetoo> hold on let me get my point
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• 4905[22:30:49] <yetoo> i was under the impression that the START_HOURS_RANGE variable would be able to be used in the regular anacron
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• 4907[22:30:56] <yetoo> from a tutorial I found
• 4908[22:31:11] *** Joins: Freddrickk (~fred@replaced-ip)
• 4909[22:31:14] <greycat> Are you asking where the man page for the REAL anacron is?
• 4910[22:31:18] <jhutchins_wk> yetoo: ... which I'll bet has no date and no version numbers.
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• 4913[22:32:59] <yetoo> What is the real one on linux.die.net?
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• 4915[22:33:18] <greycat> replaced-url
• 4916[22:33:30] <greycat> notice the /anacron/ in this one. that's the package name.
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• 4918[22:33:53] <cariveri> Hi. I wonder if installig php7.2 from a nondbian repo is a good idea. It about packeges.sury.org/php . Any advice ? Is it trut worthy?
• 4919[22:34:12] <RoyK> !don't break debian
• 4920[22:34:12] <dpkg> i heard dont break debian is replaced-url
• 4921[22:34:17] <greycat> it's one of the more trusted third party repositories, which isn't saying much
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• 4923[22:34:45] <greycat> My advice would be "stop using bleeding edge PHP, or things that require bleeding edge PHP".
• 4924[22:34:55] <greycat> And more long term, "stop using PHP".
• 4925[22:35:29] <yetoo> greycat alright, thanks for the verification
• 4926[22:35:33] <cariveri> Hmm.
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• 4929[22:36:28] <yetoo> from what I read from the systemd manpage, the actual anacron binary can be configured to mimic the systemd one
• 4930[22:36:43] * greycat shakes head and walks away
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• 4932[22:37:03] <greycat> there may also be hands being thrown up
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• 4934[22:37:21] <yetoo> dude quit with your attitude
• 4935[22:37:38] <greycat> *plonk*
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• 4940[22:38:52] <yetoo> nvm
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• 4944[22:39:24] <jhutchins_wk> ,v php
• 4945[22:39:25] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+62; sid: 1:7.2+63
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• 4947[22:40:15] <jhutchins_wk> That should be recent enough for anyone. Code that's not backwards compatible with 7.0 should be suspect.
• 4948[22:41:00] <RoyK> ,v php6
• 4949[22:41:01] <judd> No package named 'php6' was found in amd64.
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• 4953[22:42:08] <jhutchins_wk> RoyK: AFIK they never released 6.
• 4954[22:42:10] * RoyK doesn't like php too much
• 4955[22:42:14] <RoyK> jhutchins_wk: I know
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• 4957[22:42:53] <RoyK> IMHO PHP is a PoS derived from a dung somewhere
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• 4966[22:47:13] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, everybody loves to hate on PHP. It's the code, not the language. Besides, half the intenet runs on wordpress.
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• 4969[22:47:39] <greycat> No, it's actually the language.
• 4970[22:47:54] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 4994[22:59:07] <Psy-Q> it's like JS, you need to avoid and work around the bad parts (or find libraries that do that for you)
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• 5001[23:10:26] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I can't say I disagree with any of that.
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• 5003[23:11:11] <jhutchins_wk> I thought the worst part about PHP is that it enabled people who didn't know what they were doing to write very bad code that looked like it worked.
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• 5005[23:11:45] <jhutchins_wk> From that rant, I would change that from "enabled" to "required".
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• 5010[23:14:28] <RoyK> greycat: nice php summary
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• 5066[23:51:31] <SerajewelKS> Psy-Q: the difference is that javascript has some really good stuff while PHP has some averagy stuff that sometimes works
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• 5071[23:53:32] <SerajewelKS> if you ignore the bad stuff in PHP there's nothing left to use
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• 5079[23:56:08] * AimHere halts his Amazon search for 'PHP: The Good Parts'
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• 5081[23:57:03] <SerajewelKS> if you can find that, it'll be a leaflet :)
• 5082[23:57:41] <bites> the good part is easily finding employment.
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