People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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4 [00:01:16] <jaami> rant: please tell me more about best off having two one to to install
5 [00:01:45] <jaami> rant: i am sorry i could not understand that part
6 [00:02:46] <rant> you need one thumb drive to put the installer on and another to use as the hdd
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8 [00:03:06] <jaami> oh ok,
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13 [00:04:33] <rant> the live images boot to a desktop without being installed but are beefier.. include multi language packs and boot slower due to extra hw auto detection and are more complex when saving configs and stuff
14 [00:05:16] <rant> if you want to run Debian as close to same as normal you need two.. one to install from and one to install onto
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18 [00:06:52] <rant> I'd used a 32gb pny flash drive like that for about 18mo and have since reformatted it many times for use as a normal data drive and its still chugging along
19 [00:06:55] <rant> i
20 [00:07:08] <wtflux> Rant: what distro was that exactly? The one i recommended to?
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22 [00:07:48] <rant> may vary by brand and use and won't last as long as a HDD but it'll do and last long enough to save fifty bucks for a hdd
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24 [00:08:10] <rant> no it was Debian.. we only discuss Debian here
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26 [00:08:46] <rant> I've told you once already as did annadane
27 [00:08:49] <wtflux> Perhaps you have mixed me up with someone else then?
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29 [00:09:19] <wtflux> I dont recall suggesting a distro?
30 [00:09:36] <rant> you recommended yumi something or other
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32 [00:11:04] <wtflux> Thats a tool to put linux distros on a USB. I suggested he download a debian live usb and use YUMI to mount it.
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34 [00:11:30] <rant> here we cp Debian.I so /Dev/SDB or whatever
35 [00:11:48] <rant> cp and dd are tools to do it
36 [00:12:43] <rant> sry I'm on android with a stupid keyboard auto correcting
37 [00:12:48] <wtflux> thats fine, there's more than one way to skin a cat. if you'd like to walk him thru that process then more power to you, i just offered a nuclear option that will get him up and going in a few minutes.
38 [00:12:56] <wgas> etcher.io is more reliable gui uses dd
39 [00:13:12] <rant> cp would get it working fastest
40 [00:13:25] <rant> and is built in
41 [00:13:39] <nyov> let's not be racist about the toolchain :(
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43 [00:14:01] <rant> is yumi in Debian?
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45 [00:14:27] <wtflux> "fastest" is relative. to someone who knows what they're doing and is proficient in doing so. walking him thru the process which he seems to be unfamiliar with will likely take longer. i was only suggesting a nuclear option... which was neither 'not debian' nor 'any other distro'
46 [00:14:27] <rant> did user specify is they had now as not Debian?
47 [00:14:38] <wtflux> thanks for the reminder though, i guess.
48 [00:14:46] <rant> its not racist its following the install guide
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51 [00:15:26] <rant> when they have issues and come here we're gonna ask if the followed the install guide
52 [00:15:40] <rant> and can't support 3rd party tools
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54 [00:17:14] <rant> not trying to be a dick about it just trying to avoid misleading people to point we can't all support them in future
55 [00:17:37] <rant> I thought it was a distro.. never heard of it
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59 [00:18:17] <wtflux> That's fine, it's just kinda odd to go pedantic on someone when you're making a wrong assumption.
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62 [00:18:47] <wgas> I read yumi has problems with debian a while back
63 [00:19:01] <wtflux> anyways thanks all for the help. my work day is over. hope to visit again some time when its a little less stuffy.
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66 [00:19:23] <rant> etcher is the mentioned until for non Linux oses to write images last I checked
67 [00:20:19] <wgas> there is .app image for linux too
68 [00:20:22] <rant> I admit I was wrong to assume but I'm on crappy phone its not easy to google and Yumi pen drive Linux sounded like a distro not a tool
69 [00:21:03] <rant> plus you were just talking about derivatives so that's how I jumped to the conclusion :p
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71 [00:22:29] <jaami> rant: isnt that netinstall good to go with one usb attached on the target machine? i think that should work
72 [00:22:42] <rant> fwiw cp, dd, and etcher are what guide says I believe
73 [00:23:09] <rant> jaami yes any install method you have pxe boot or whatever is fine
74 [00:23:19] <jaami> i will try to setup net on the laptop
75 [00:24:12] <rant> when in doubt read the install guide or at least skim to appropriate section
76 [00:24:18] <rant> !ig
77 [00:24:18] <dpkg> rumour has it, stretch installation guide is The Installation Guide for Debian 9 "Stretch" can be found at replaced-url
78 [00:24:29] <rant> damn that's old
79 [00:24:44] <rant> ERM no its not.. heh
80 [00:25:32] <rant> I read squeeze when it says stretch
81 [00:25:41] <jaami> :)
82 [00:26:09] <rant> lots a install options covered in there
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84 [00:26:30] <rant> you'd asked about small writable with GUI though
85 [00:26:55] <rant> xfce cd1 I so is smallest with GUI packages on the media
86 [00:26:59] <jaami> yes, making laptop ready for someone who never used linux before
87 [00:27:16] <jaami> GUI means the main interface. the desktop
88 [00:27:23] <rant> with a netinst you could install any of the de
89 [00:28:09] <rant> but if you wanted it all on the install media that's the smallest image we got with enough for full de experience
90 [00:29:42] <rant> if burning for a WiFi install try the firmware installer
91 [00:29:55] <rant> !firmware installer
92 [00:29:56] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See replaced-url
93 [00:30:22] <rant> many WiFi req nonfree firmware not in normal images
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95 [00:30:59] <usney> hello rant
96 [00:31:02] <rant> !firmware images
97 [00:31:02] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
98 [00:31:07] <jaami> yes, i need drivers for wifi and everything that is important for a normal user
99 [00:31:41] <rant> well you can add em post install but if you plan to install from WiFi try that image
100 [00:32:09] <rant> ie if you need WiFi during the install
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103 [00:32:42] <jaami> yes, i need wifi during the install
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105 [00:33:18] <rant> well there you have it dpkg gave links for our nonfree firmware included images
106 [00:33:53] <rant> to be on safe side ud recommend those if you're not sure if card uses nonfree firmware
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109 [00:34:36] <rant> usney, you need help with something?
110 [00:34:55] <usney> no not at the moment
111 [00:35:02] <usney> just wanted to say hello
112 [00:35:11] <usney> cause I think you helped me before
113 [00:35:41] <rant> ah well use #debian-offtopic for social chatter with us regulars ;)
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133 [00:56:04] <usney> rant how do you upgrade from jessie to stretch?
134 [00:56:33] <usney> I am using gnuroot debian on android and it is using jessie instead of stretch
135 [00:56:42] <rant> !jessie->stretch
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137 [00:57:23] <usney> jessie is greater than stretch?
138 [00:57:24] <rant> grr.. read the stretch release notes section on upgrading
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140 [00:57:38] <rant> dpkg hello
141 [00:57:38] <dpkg> what's up, rant
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143 [00:57:55] <rant> dpkg, jessie->stretch?
144 [00:57:55] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
145 [00:58:29] <usney> is it safe to do this?
146 [00:58:52] <usney> will it cause incompatiability issues with gnuroot debian and android?
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148 [00:59:51] <rant> no clue
149 [01:00:12] <usney> well I can always reinstall
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159 [01:06:43] <awal1> usney paste your sources.list file
160 [01:07:37] <awal1> !jessie
161 [01:07:37] <usney> I changed all jessie to stretch awal1
162 [01:07:37] <dpkg> Jessie is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25: replaced-url
163 [01:08:17] <awal1> usney, we just wanna see if all fine, if you want
164 [01:08:38] <usney> ok
165 [01:08:40] <usney> just a second
166 [01:08:41] <RoyK> !pastebinit
167 [01:08:41] <dpkg> A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
168 [01:08:58] <usney> have to watch to finish download and install
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170 [01:09:03] <awal1> usney, use paste.debian.net
171 [01:09:09] <usney> should be fast since it is textmode only
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173 [01:09:17] <usney> no desktop environment
174 [01:09:29] <RoyK> usney: pastebinit works
175 [01:09:42] <awal1> use pastebinit so
176 [01:09:50] <awal1> i use it and it is good
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178 [01:10:26] <awal1> by default it send pastes to paste.debian.net
179 [01:12:30] <usney> how do I select all and copy in nano?
180 [01:12:42] <usney> I know how to do individual lines
181 [01:12:49] <RoyK> usney: pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
182 [01:13:38] <rant> can use netcat with termbin
183 [01:14:00] <RoyK> rant: pastebinit is a wee bit easier ;)
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185 [01:14:22] <rant> neither are installed usually though
186 [01:14:34] <usney> hmmm
187 [01:14:47] <RoyK> rant: well, usney said (s)he was using pastebinit already
188 [01:14:56] <rant> ah
189 [01:15:11] <usney> I did?
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191 [01:15:20] <usney> I use pastebin.com
192 [01:15:32] <usney> never heard of a commandline pastebin until now
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194 [01:15:42] <RoyK> ok - install pastebinit, then
195 [01:15:48] <usney> now after the upgrade it is saying that connection to vpn failed
196 [01:16:01] <RoyK> it's a simple python script
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198 [01:17:34] <usney> doing an apt-get -f install
199 [01:18:00] <RoyK> something got interrupted?
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201 [01:18:22] <usney> now apt-get update; apt-get install pastebinit
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207 [01:20:20] <ryouma> pastebin itself uses cloudflare so a lot of users will refuse to look at it becuase it makes them solve a captcha or because they hate cloudflare. there are tons of other sites and tools. some can work nicely without a tool. sprunge termbin
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212 [01:21:42] <RoyK> ryouma: pastebin? dot com? that one is spammed with ads - the debian one just works cleanly
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226 [01:32:20] <ryouma> RoyK: even better
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228 [01:33:02] <ryouma> never saw any ads on sprunge or termbin
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286 [03:00:24] <awal1> is there any utility like 'thunar-media-tags-plugin' I can use with pcmanfm or any other file manager?
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290 [03:01:10] <awal1> thunar-media-tags-plugin effective renaming
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292 [03:01:37] <awal1> anything ^
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357 [04:10:58] <JohnA> I don't backup my whole system I general I have found its simpler to just reinstall if something goes wrong. However, I used to use "sbackup" to back the files felt were important to me. But this package is no longer maintained. What would be a "good" replacement?
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359 [04:11:31] <MiekeReust> i made some amazing conceptual artwork and wallpapers for debian Buster, i heard the last date 4th september expired. Can i still submit it.?
360 [04:11:37] <nkuttler> JohnA: which features matter to you?
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371 [04:22:53] <sysadmin_wannabe> cya
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385 [04:40:40] <acidtripper> Hi there
386 [04:40:50] <acidtripper> i have a little question i was asking myself today..
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388 [04:41:17] <acidtripper> it's slackpkg checksum error, when a package is not upgraded, the ting that you have to reinstall by hand
389 [04:41:20] <acidtripper> solved on current?
390 [04:41:34] <acidtripper> mean when you do upgrade-all and fails for some package error downloading
391 [04:41:35] <acidtripper> solved?
392 [04:41:46] <acidtripper> or you have to reinstall it by hand?
393 [04:43:00] <acidtripper> example: slackpkg upgrade-all.. some package faild on checksum, then you have to do $slackpkg reinstall $package-name . is that solved on current? just upgrade-all again instead of re-installing it?
394 [04:43:06] <acidtripper> sorry
395 [04:43:08] <acidtripper> not here
396 [04:44:16] <acidtripper> sorry for off-topic :P
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405 [04:56:51] <awal1> acidtripper, this is debian channel, not slackware
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407 [04:58:00] <acidtripper> hahaha awal1 i didn't take the blue pill today
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427 [05:05:16] <dollfan> Hello, I'm trying to install termite, which requires vte-ng. vte-ng uses autogen, and that's where my problem is. Running ./autogen.sh in the vte-ng git direction gives this error: "Introspection requested but M4 macros not installed". How do I install M4 macros?
428 [05:05:25] <dollfan> If there is a better place to ask this question please let me know
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434 [05:12:32] <JohnA> nkuttler: sorry for the delay. Not sure what I want - I suppose a replacement for sbackup - ability to select what gets BU and same ability to select was is restored including the ability pick a date/version
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445 [05:15:31] <ryouma> describe sbackup
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448 [05:15:40] <ryouma> or what you want
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453 [05:16:52] <ryouma> almost all tools can do both of those things
454 [05:16:58] <ryouma> rsnapshot is popular and good
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461 [05:21:56] <JohnA> sbackup is/was a backup system/suite that would backup user specified files and directories to user selected media/directory. it had a user selectable logarithmic retention scheme, daily, 1 perweek, 1 permonth ...
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463 [05:22:20] <ryouma> i canno seem to find the freeze dates for buster. all i have is full freeze. replaced-url
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465 [05:22:37] <ryouma> JohnA: yeah, rsnapshot
466 [05:22:48] <ryouma> defintely </ rainman>
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470 [05:23:28] <ryouma> you can set the scheme as you like
471 [05:23:40] <JohnA> ryouma: the restore app could select a file or a version of one and restore it.
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473 [05:24:37] <ryouma> JohnA: those are basic features of all backup systems
474 [05:24:52] <ryouma> JohnA: the great thing about rsnapshot is that you use normal tools to restore
475 [05:24:58] <ryouma> (and rsnapshot-like rsync-based)
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477 [05:25:33] <ryouma> so you odn't need to learn arcane syntax of whatever tool, or have it installed
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495 [06:00:45] <michael2> wow, I just installed okular pdf viewer, and it installed 128 dependency packages! Is there a more lightweight pdf viewer available?
496 [06:01:37] <kopper> Zathura
497 [06:02:39] <michael2> kopper: thanks, I'll give it a try
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553 [07:05:21] <n4dir> So, am i the only one complaining that without any changes on my irc-client the channel bot dpkg stops working and start working all the time ?
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568 [07:38:57] <jelly> dpkg: ping
569 [07:38:57] <dpkg> Yes, jelly, you are online.
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573 [07:40:06] <n4dir> jelly: today it works for me again, yesterday (when i decided to give up and simply use debian-next) it didn't work. If it is only me, it doesn't matter. If someone else complains, it might be a general issue. Makes any sense?
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577 [07:43:47] <jelly> n4dir: are you talking about public use or /msg? If it happens again, dselect has a copy of the factoid database so you can use it as a fallback
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580 [07:45:02] <n4dir> both, in the channel and /msg dpkg. Thanks for the tip bout the database. As said i use #debian-next as the fallback, but a very good tip anyway.
581 [07:46:55] <jelly> I don't see your nickname addressing dpkg in here yesterday at all.
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583 [07:48:11] <n4dir> jelly: weird, as i sure did (probably private, /msg dpkg yesterday). - ah, i guess you meant in the channel.
584 [07:48:46] <n4dir> as the problem exists for over a week now, i first test with /msg if it works at all, to not bother the channel.
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591 [07:57:01] <n4dir> jelly: thu 13 sept, 10:42 ff
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597 [08:06:17] <jelly> and timezone?
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599 [08:06:58] <n4dir> damnit, you got me there. how can i figure out ( in real life i life in Germany, so something like that)
600 [08:07:21] <n4dir> user$ cat /etc/timezone
601 [08:07:21] <n4dir> Europe/Berlin ?
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603 [08:08:07] <jelly> okay
604 [08:10:42] <jelly> right, it seems like dpkg ignores you specifically for some reason. That can happen for a short time if you ask it too many nonexisting things in a short interval
605 [08:11:26] <n4dir> oh, non-existing things do happen. Though i hardly bug him/her more than 10 times a day. But sure, perhaps that.
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615 [08:24:07] <aaii> Why when i press ping google.com this answer me "ping: unknown host"
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618 [08:29:40] <aaii> yesterday i follow this : replaced-url
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620 [08:33:01] <jelly> aaii: your network may be misconfigured, is there any nameserver line in /etc/resolv.conf and what does it say
621 [08:34:26] <aaii> jelly, thats empty :(
622 [08:34:33] <aaii> Now i am using only tty1
623 [08:36:23] <aaii> jelly, Do you have any idea for this problem?
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636 [08:40:50] <jelly> aaii: how is your networking configured? Entries in /etc/network/interfaces or some other way?
637 [08:41:50] <aaii> jelly, I dont have this directory
638 [08:41:56] <aaii> interfaces
639 [08:42:34] <jelly> it ought to be a file, not a directory
640 [08:42:44] <jelly> !interfaces
641 [08:42:44] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
642 [08:43:21] <aaii> ok
643 [08:43:26] <aaii> i find it
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645 [08:43:52] <aaii> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
646 [08:43:58] <aaii> auto lo
647 [08:44:09] <aaii> iface lo inet loopback
648 [08:44:16] <aaii> jelly,
649 [08:45:01] <jelly> nothing else?
650 [08:45:19] <aaii> jelly, else just comment #
651 [08:46:24] <jelly> then your network is not configured there, but probably via NetworkManager. N-M only brings up network after you log in, so if you can't log in with a GUI you also don't get network configured
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654 [08:46:44] <aaii> jelly, so
655 [08:46:46] <aaii> ?
656 [08:47:03] <aaii> I cant use GUI i think
657 [08:47:22] <jelly> aaii: you can try activating a connection using "nmtui". I don't know how well this works, never used it.
658 [08:48:28] <aaii> jelly, command not found: nmtui
659 [08:48:31] <aaii> :(
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662 [08:49:11] <aaii> thats so bad way to install xfce4 on replaced-url
663 [08:49:14] <aaii> so so bad
664 [08:49:22] <jelly> aaii: what does "ip l" say, what are your available interfaces?
665 [08:50:00] <jelly> apart from "lo"
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668 [08:50:30] <aaii> 1:lo: .....
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671 [08:51:08] <jelly> are there any other than lo:
672 [08:51:15] <aaii> 2:ens133: ,BROADCAST,MULTICAST. mtu 1500 ,,,,
673 [08:51:17] <aaii> jelly,
674 [08:51:57] <jelly> ens133 sounds like your wired network. Is this a virtual machine?
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680 [08:54:24] <aaii> jelly, I dont know
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685 [08:58:04] <aaii> jelly, replaced-url
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688 [08:59:37] <jelly> I'd add an entry for ens133 to /etc/network/interfaces and do "ifup -a" or reboot.
689 [09:00:38] <aaii> i should do this only ifup -a?
690 [09:00:46] <jelly> aaii: printf "\nauto ens133\niface ens133 inet dhcp\n" >> /etc/network/interfaces
691 [09:01:11] <jelly> or edit the file manually and add two lines, "auto ens133" and "iface ens133 inet dhcp"
692 [09:04:07] <aaii> jelly, i add this 2 lines where after source or before that or end line or start line?
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694 [09:04:29] <jelly> at the end is fine
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697 [09:05:35] <aaii> This is line 2 : iface ens133 inet dhcp ?
698 [09:05:58] <aaii> jelly, ?
699 [09:06:19] <aaii> i mean this is ok?
700 [09:06:29] <jelly> yes
701 [09:06:42] <aaii> now i should reboot?
702 [09:07:04] <jelly> reboot or run "ifup -a"
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705 [09:08:13] <aaii> jelly, Now i rebooted now net is good ,but i cant do apt :(
706 [09:08:41] <jelly> what happens when you run "apt-get update" as root?
707 [09:08:53] <aaii> sorry
708 [09:08:56] <aaii> thats right
709 [09:09:05] <aaii> i did it without root
710 [09:09:09] <aaii> ;)
711 [09:09:23] <aaii> jelly, Thank you so much man
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713 [09:10:01] <jelly> you're welcome!
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731 [09:29:30] <fearnothing> hi, I want to confirm something about routing
732 [09:30:05] <fearnothing> I want to configure a route to rfc1918 via one IP, and to anything else via a different one
733 [09:30:58] <fearnothing> if I add routes to 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.0.0 and the other rfc1918 nets, and then a route to 0.0.0.0, will that work? Will it use the more specific one when possible?
734 [09:30:59] <n4dir> before i just try and see: if i want to get rid of all gui applications in one row: could i "apt-get remove xorg" followed by apt-get autoremove?
735 [09:31:07] <Habbie> fearnothing, yes
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737 [09:31:13] <fearnothing> grand, thanks
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744 [09:34:34] <fearnothing> nice, seems to work
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746 [09:34:55] <fearnothing> had to restart the interface manually, but otherwise all is functioning as I hoped :)
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842 [11:11:44] <thms> I want to get a specific version of a package. I added the relevant repository, ran apt-cache show mailman, apt-get install mailman=2.1.13-5 but it says it can not find the version it just shown me oO
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846 [11:13:53] <themill> !bat
847 [11:13:53] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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849 [11:16:26] <n_1-c_k> n4dir: I'm running X but don't have the package xorg so I suspect not.
850 [11:17:39] <n_1-c_k> n4dir: libx11-6 maybe... or maybe not, I'm not going to try it myself :)
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862 [11:27:31] <thms> themill, replaced-url
863 [11:28:21] <themill> thms: the 1: is important
864 [11:28:23] <thms> themill, I'm a total idiot. Prefied with 1:
865 [11:28:36] <thms> thanks :)
866 [11:28:51] <themill> always happy to help people help themselves :)
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871 [11:30:21] <Kelsar> fearnothing: 1st. don't use "route", use ip route
872 [11:30:42] <Kelsar> fearnothing: don't set routes to 0.0.0.0 use default. And yes, most explicit route wins
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876 [11:35:28] <hexhaxtron> I installed nodejs but I still don't have npm. Where is npm?
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884 [11:41:22] <jolt> hexhaxtron: If you want something modern, then use the nodejs packages. replaced-url
885 [11:41:57] <jolt> (I don't use node, but thats what my developers tell me)
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887 [11:43:03] <HicksD> create a vm, install official nodejs packages in vm and use it from there. You can mount just your project via sshfs and avoid any issue with all the 3rd party packages node projects pull in.
888 [11:43:15] <HicksD> issues as in any security risks.
889 [11:43:43] <jolt> (we use docker for that stuff)
890 [11:43:51] <hexhaxtron> jolt, which one should I get? 8 or 10? My nodejs version is: v4.8.2
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892 [11:44:05] <jolt> hexhaxtron: I can't answer, depends on what you want to do
893 [11:44:43] <hexhaxtron> I want to install Ghost CMS and run this command: npm install --production
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896 [11:47:57] <jolt> hexhaxtron: Then look at the requirement for Ghost CMS and install whatever they recommend?
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898 [11:48:11] <jolt> I still don't use node myself.
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934 [12:39:25] <dka> I have E: Unable to locate package libpam-libnss
935 [12:39:29] <dka> is the package name wrong?
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938 [12:42:14] <petn-randall> ,v libpam-libnss
939 [12:42:16] <judd> No package named 'libpam-libnss' was found in amd64.
940 [12:42:26] <petn-randall> dka: yes, it doesn't exist in any suite.
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951 [12:50:18] <muAdmDev> morning! before I get back at my cronjob-problem... :( is it safe to delete all empty directories beneath binds transport directory? I got a lot of them from a past misconfiguration, I guess
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956 [12:58:12] <petn-randall> muAdmDev: You need to be more specific for anyone to be able to answer that.
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968 [13:03:26] <fearnothing> hi, I'm having a routing issue. I have a debian system where I want its default gateway for all non-rfc1918 traffic to be another host that is running tor, but 1918 traffic should be routed via my router's interface
969 [13:03:52] <fearnothing> I thought I had set it up correctly for that, but http/https is still going out via my router
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973 [13:08:23] <muAdmDev> petn-randall: maybe I'm lacking the skills or knowledge to give more info on that. I got named running, all good, but I don't like that there are empty directories e.g. "v12903" under "/var/cache/bind/transport/". all current directories have correct zone definitions in them
974 [13:09:25] <FinalX> quite sure you can safely toss them, as long as it's not the base dir itself
975 [13:09:51] <petn-randall> muAdmDev: Make a backup, then try it and see.
976 [13:09:57] <muAdmDev> :D
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978 [13:14:02] <fearnothing> ok, I've kind of got it working, it's an ugly solution though
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983 [13:17:35] <fearnothing> my dns is being routed via tor... which is being routed via tor
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985 [13:18:00] <fearnothing> I only wanted one of those to happen but I couldn't figure out how to make that part work
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991 [13:26:21] <at0m> fearnothing: fyi, there's always #tor on oftc
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1000 [13:35:55] <hexhaxtron> I got about 600 users in my system and I wanted to give them all a Blog Space. What would be best for this?
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1004 [13:38:13] <ooAoo> hexhaxtron: is it plain blogging...no need to SEO friendly or plugins?
1005 [13:39:07] <hexhaxtron> ooAoo, I'm not sure, we can try plain blogging at the moment.
1006 [13:39:31] <ooAoo> hexhaxtron: you heard about wordpress?
1007 [13:39:35] <hexhaxtron> Yes.
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1009 [13:39:45] <ooAoo> there is a 'multi' version of it
1010 [13:39:51] <ooAoo> user1.yourdomain.com
1011 [13:39:55] <dka> Is there a group in linux I can use to share a wallpaper to all my users?
1012 [13:39:55] <ooAoo> user2.yourdomin.com
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1014 [13:40:29] <hexhaxtron> But each user should have their own address such as: replaced-url
1015 [13:40:32] <ooAoo> dka: share on internet?
1016 [13:40:54] <hexhaxtron> ooAoo, I'll see that, thanks.
1017 [13:41:00] <ooAoo> ok
1018 [13:41:10] <dka> ooAoo, my wallpaper file is stored under /usr/share/images/desktop-base/login-background.svg , what group should I set so all user can read it and use it?
1019 [13:41:21] <dka> right now it is owned by root:root
1020 [13:42:08] <EdePopede> /usr/local is sgid root:staff
1021 [13:42:53] <at0m> dka: by default it is readable by all, if not chmod 644 /usr/share/images/desktop-base/login-background.svg
1022 [13:43:34] <ooAoo> dka: readable, not writable , i think
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1024 [13:43:47] <ooAoo> or you place in /tmp ?
1025 [13:43:52] <ooAoo> :D
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1027 [13:44:27] <ooAoo> chown users:users pic.svg
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1029 [13:45:53] <dka> it is readable by all
1030 [13:46:04] <dka> why can't i change the wallpaper using gsettings ?
1031 [13:46:09] <dka> It gives me black wallpaper
1032 [13:46:19] <dka> And if I try to use the UI , the file is not readble
1033 [13:46:22] <dka> but it is 644
1034 [13:47:02] <jezebel> pssst everything in /tmp gets deleted at system boot
1035 [13:47:55] <jezebel> (dont put anything important there)
1036 [13:48:32] <at0m> unless you explicitly don't want it to survice a reboot :>
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1038 [13:49:22] <at0m> same for /dev/shm - built-in RAM-disk
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1044 [13:51:47] <ooAoo> can inotify monitor /dev/shm too?
1045 [13:52:46] <thms> When I do apt-cache show, the version is ie: "1:2.1.18-3
1046 [13:53:02] <thms> "1:2.1.18-3", what does the 1: mean ?
1047 [13:54:30] <jelly> !epoch
1048 [13:54:31] <dpkg> [epoch] a fixed point in a chronology or the start of an era. For example, y2k was a 2 digit year epoch. In Unix, epoch often refers to the time from which seconds are counted; epoch was is Jan 1 1970 and we will run out of 32 bit numbers for this on Jan 18 2038 (by which time we will have hopefully all migrated to 64-bit architectures). An epoch can also be used to help manage version numbering in Debian; ask me about <version epoch>.
1049 [13:54:39] <jelly> thms: ^
1050 [13:55:02] <jelly> oops
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1053 [13:55:21] <thms> !whatdoes1:mean
1054 [13:55:33] <thms> pff, useless bot.
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1056 [13:56:07] <FinalX> no, you're useless for not reading what dpkg said till the end ;)
1057 [13:56:10] <FinalX> !version epoch
1058 [13:56:10] <dpkg> The version number of a package has a prepended number called the "epoch". It is only added when the system for upstream version numbers changes. Example: in sarge, X was version 6.8 but in etch it was 1.1 (xfree86->xorg). But 1 < 6, so we add an epoch "2:" to signify that everything with 2: is newer (if there is no : the epoch is assumed to be "0"). See section 5.6.12 of <policy> or ask me about <compare versions> <debian revision>.
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1061 [13:56:49] <thms> FinalX, I pm'ed him version epoch :)
1062 [13:57:05] <thms> Thank you guys
1063 [13:57:09] <thms> good bot.
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1070 [14:03:43] <jelly> !botsnack
1071 [14:03:43] <dpkg> jelly: aw, gee
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1141 [14:41:00] <r00trunner> How can I install custom kernel and headers .deb?
1142 [14:42:40] <colo-work> dpkg -i <yourfile.deb>
1143 [14:42:40] * dpkg installs <yourfile.deb> into colo-work's head with a bone saw and a few screws
1144 [14:42:46] <colo-work> -:)
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1147 [14:43:20] <r00trunner> colo-work: Is this everything or do I need to change some symlinks?
1148 [14:43:40] <colo-work> r00trunner, if the packages are properly build, dpkg should manage that for you
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1150 [14:43:48] <jelly> if your packages are sane you don't need to symlink anything manually
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1152 [14:44:23] <r00trunner> colo-work: Thank you. Another question: If something went wrong, is there a way to fall back to my old working kernel and headers?
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1154 [14:44:50] <colo-work> r00trunner, just remove the package using `apt-get remove <packagename>`
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1156 [14:45:03] <colo-work> your current kernel image will remain installed either way
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1158 [14:45:10] <colo-work> and you can choose to boot with it in your bootloader
1159 [14:45:26] <n4dir> or edit /etc/default/grub (first of all don't uninstall the known-to-work kernel, of course)
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1161 [14:46:59] <r00trunner> colo-work: Sorry if I need to ask again. If I install my custom kernel and headers via dpgk -i and reboot my system, the custom kernel should be in place. If something with the custom kernel is not right, I simply need to deinstall it and the old kernel will be in place again?
1162 [14:47:45] <colo-work> r00trunner, the new kernel image will be installed in addition to your currently installed kernels. your bootloader will present you with all available options to choose from - i.e., the old and new kernel images.
1163 [14:48:05] <colo-work> so if the new kernel image turns out to be no good, reboot, choose the old kernel image, and remove the "new", broken kernel image
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1165 [14:48:22] <r00trunner> colo-work: nice I did not know that. Thanks a lot.
1166 [14:49:30] <colo-work> yw
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1169 [14:51:46] <n4dir> if you install (or remove) kernels, with apt or via dpkg -i, you will see that after installation finished something close to "update-grub" does all the magic. iirc.
1170 [14:51:55] <r00trunner> Where can I change the time until my boot menu vanishes?
1171 [14:52:04] <n4dir> - /etc/default/grub
1172 [14:52:53] <colo-work> run `sudo update-grub` after editing that file, to apply changes
1173 [14:53:24] <r00trunner> Thank you guys.
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1176 [14:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1135
1177 [14:54:47] * n4dir thinks quite a bit bout how comfortable grub2 is while he tries to figure out how the heck to configure yaboot for the powerpc ...
1178 [14:54:50] <r00trunner> colo-work: My grub config says, GRUB_DEFAULT is set to 0. I guess that means it will pick entry 0 as a default. Will my freshly installed custom kernel automatically be entry 0 or do I need to change the entry?
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1180 [14:55:15] <colo-work> r00trunner, the new index should end up with index 0
1181 [14:55:44] <r00trunner> colo-work: Again, thanks for your help. Really appreciated :).
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1183 [14:58:37] <jelly> r00trunner: kernels are ordered by version
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1188 [14:59:59] <jelly> so if your custom build's ABI looks newer than any other installed kernel package ABI it will end up as first (zeroth)
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1202 [15:15:50] <sentriz> hello, is it possible to achieve the effect of "chmod -R 777; chmod -R a-x,o-w,+X" in a single command?
1203 [15:16:33] <petn-randall> sentriz: Did you mean "How to shoot myself in the foot"?
1204 [15:17:12] <sentriz> petn-randall hmmm am I missing something?
1205 [15:17:31] <petn-randall> sentriz: You never ever want to run `chmod 777` on anything.
1206 [15:17:42] <sentriz> it's just for music files
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1208 [15:18:06] <sentriz> well I realize 777 is not good, bu the second command fixes it right?
1209 [15:18:15] <petn-randall> sentriz: And you want every user, including system users to be able to overwrite those?
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1212 [15:19:45] <Kelsar> sentriz: yes, it is possible
1213 [15:19:47] <sentriz> ok, how about a 770
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1215 [15:20:09] <sentriz> Kelsar, nice - do you know how it's done?
1216 [15:20:30] <ntd> so, what's up with debian 9 with gnome taking the windows 10-approach to automatic connections/phoning home?
1217 [15:21:16] <sentriz> Kelsar, I think my problem is that the first command doesn't care what the existing permissions are, and the second does
1218 [15:21:45] <Kelsar> sentriz: u=rwX,o=rX,g=rwX
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1220 [15:21:51] <Kelsar> sentriz: would be one variant
1221 [15:21:55] <sentriz> ahhhhhhhhh
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1223 [15:22:14] <sentriz> lovely, I was missing the "=" notation
1224 [15:22:15] <sentriz> thank you
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1226 [15:22:39] <Kelsar> sentriz: + adds permissions, - removes permissions, = set exactly
1227 [15:22:45] <sentriz> got it
1228 [15:22:53] <colo-work> and there's always octal numbers, too
1229 [15:23:05] <Kelsar> colo-work: try to set dirs to x but not files with one octal command
1230 [15:23:07] <sentriz> colo-work, I not sure how "X" works with the octal system
1231 [15:23:17] <sentriz> yeah
1232 [15:23:17] <Kelsar> sentriz: it does not
1233 [15:23:22] <sentriz> thanks
1234 [15:23:23] <colo-work> ah, I wasn't aware of that peculiarity
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1240 [15:25:45] <ntd> so, what's up with debian 9 with gnome taking the windows 10-approach to automatic connections/phoning home?
1241 [15:26:05] <petn-randall> ntd: Do you care to be more specific?
1242 [15:26:10] <ntd> gnome autoconnects to .gnome.org domains, the firefox extenstion does too
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1244 [15:26:36] <ntd> on network=up, connections are made to extensions.gnome.org, proxy.gnome.org
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1246 [15:26:44] <ntd> keeps chatting
1247 [15:26:47] <petn-randall> ntd: I guess you have firefox set up to check for extension updates.
1248 [15:27:01] <petn-randall> ntd: And also gnome has a plugin system that likely works the same.
1249 [15:27:02] <ntd> hell no
1250 [15:27:23] <petn-randall> ?
1251 [15:27:24] <ntd> but phoning home, by default?
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1253 [15:27:58] <ntd> try duckduckgoing "gnome automatic connections extensions.gnome.org"
1254 [15:27:59] <greycat> Hello ntd, welcome to the 21st century corporate Web.
1255 [15:28:12] <petn-randall> What do you mean with "phoning home"? I told you it specficly checks for extension updates. Turn it off if you prefer to do that manually.
1256 [15:28:20] <ntd> one relevant result, suggests blacklisting extensions.gnome.org in /etc/hosts
1257 [15:28:29] <ntd> that's what you have to do on friggin windows
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1259 [15:28:37] <greycat> Or you could simply not run GNOME.
1260 [15:28:42] <ntd> why is it on by default, where is it disabled?
1261 [15:28:54] <ntd> greycat, everyone hates jews, welcome to 1933
1262 [15:29:00] <ntd> that argument is fallacy
1263 [15:29:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
1264 [15:29:09] <petn-randall> ntd: Don't forget to blacklist security.debian.org, too, so apt doesn't phone home either.
1265 [15:29:13] *** greycat sets mode: +q *!*@gateway/tor-sasl/ntd
1266 [15:29:24] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
1267 [15:29:39] <petn-randall> Err, you might want to step back from the keyboard for a while, ntd.
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1269 [15:31:33] <queip> ntp's approach to privacy is certainly good
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1272 [15:32:19] <greycat> Hide behind tor and troll channels with anti-semitic rhetoric? Yeah, "good".
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1274 [15:32:39] <n4dir> better go for i2p, now that it is in the sid repos :-)
1275 [15:32:39] <greycat> Oh wait, you didn't say the user's name. You said "ntp".
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1280 [15:36:19] <queip> greycat: I mean, paying attention to phoning-home
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1282 [15:37:01] <greycat> Are you talking about NTP (the network time protocol), or the user named ntd? I honestly don't know what you're saying.
1283 [15:38:19] <queip> greycat: sorry my mistake, ment ntd, and - <ntd> gnome autoconnects to .gnome.org domains, the firefox extenstion does too
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1286 [15:38:58] <queip> maybe privacy sensitive users could install some usecase-privacy package, that would blacklist all packages that by default do some kind of phoning home
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1290 [15:41:47] <anzipex> I just builded my own deb-package and added it to the server via reprepro includedeb. I can download current version, but how to download specific version of my deb-package?
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1292 [15:42:33] <anzipex> 'apt-get download package-name=version' doesn't work
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1296 [15:43:46] <queip> greycat: btw ntd says he was just ilustrating that "this is current_year so this is OK" is a fallacy, because there were some years, where things were accepted as normal in that year, and yet they were not good (that was his example)
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1299 [15:44:39] <greycat> Well, what does he expect from *us*? We aren't going to take up arms and storm the offices of Google and hold their management hostage until they recant and stop doing all of the things that he dislikes.
1300 [15:44:50] <bites> anzipex: check with apt-cache policy <package> what versions are available. afaik reprepro only replaces the package and keeps one version.
1301 [15:44:52] <greycat> Nor the same for GNOME, etc.
1302 [15:45:08] <queip> greycat: well I proposed about the package to blacklist such things. also, a more private oritented fork might happen too
1303 [15:45:19] <queip> greycat: though maybe unban him and then you can talk without me intermediating
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1305 [15:45:37] <greycat> His ban will expire after 2 hours, which is eir's default.
1306 [15:45:55] <JohnA> for some reason I have found two init.d scripts 1 for bind and 1 for bind9 which one should be used or which should be deleted?
1307 [15:46:06] <queip> privacy things could be added by Debian as patches, or could be requested in upstream (or sometimes it's just a default/flag/option up to a distro)
1308 [15:46:22] <greycat> The one for bind is probably very very old and should be removed, usually by purging the old bind8 (or bind4?) package that it's part of.
1309 [15:46:42] <greycat> JohnA: what does "dpkg -S /etc/init.d/bind" say?
1310 [15:47:35] <anzipex> bites, well in 'Version table' i can see only the current version
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1312 [15:48:02] <bites> i believe that's a limitation of the repository structure reprepro creates.
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1315 [15:48:54] <JohnA> greycat: comes back with "/etc/init.d/bind", however if I do the same thing with bind9 I get "/etc/init.d/bind9
1316 [15:49:27] <n4dir> queip: not really about what the ntd spoke, but there are sub-projects of debian which do care about privacy. one is freedombox, and yesterday i ran into Mempo (i understand no nothing, but privacy seems to be their goal).
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1318 [15:49:50] <greycat> JohnA: the line should include a pacakge name, then a colon, then the filename.
1319 [15:50:00] <greycat> JohnA: that package name is the part I was interested in.
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1321 [15:50:32] <JohnA> greycat: 1 says bind and the other bind9
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1323 [15:50:56] <greycat> If it says "bind: /etc/init.d/bind" then you know the package to be purged is named "bind", so you would do "dpkg --purge bind"
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1325 [15:51:24] <JohnA> grey
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1328 [15:52:50] <bites> anzipex: mini-dinstall allows you to keep multiple versions of one package.
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1332 [15:54:51] <Iridos> ntd, file a bug on the respective packages if you think the behavior should be different. But I don't see that checks for updates would contain sensitive private information, so I don't see you having a strong case.
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1377 [16:25:37] <pidroid> Hello. Somebody knows how to set log level for snmpd ? i tried many things but any good result. I want do it properly
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1381 [16:27:17] <zafu> hi, [a ssh on debian question] I'm having trouble understanding why ForwardAgent doesn't work as expected, I'm doing "host1:~% ssh host2" with my key, then "host2:~% ssh host1" works fine, but "host1:~% ssh host2" asks for password, what could be happening there?
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1385 [16:28:22] <han-solo> hello
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1388 [16:28:53] <han-solo> is there an alternative for `yum whatprovides <file>` for apt ?
1389 [16:29:07] <greycat> you probably want the apt-file package
1390 [16:29:09] <Fox> han-solo: apt-file search
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1392 [16:29:28] <han-solo> Um, Okay. Let me see.
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1397 [16:30:34] <jelly> zafu: probably by editing -L... option in SNMPDOPTS line of /etc/default/snmpd
1398 [16:30:47] <jelly> er, wrong nick
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1400 [16:30:53] <jelly> pidroid: probably by editing -L... option in SNMPDOPTS line of /etc/default/snmpd
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1402 [16:31:22] <themill> han-solo: you can also ask judd on irc
1403 [16:31:36] <SerajewelKS> or packages.debian.org in your browser
1404 [16:31:55] <jelly> pidroid: eg. replace -Lsd with -LS0-6d to get rid of some annoying noise
1405 [16:32:59] <anzipex> bites, I'll try it, thanks
1406 [16:33:17] <jelly> pidroid: man snmpd points you to > See LOGGING OPTIONS in snmpcmd(1) for details.
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1408 [16:33:26] <pidroid> jelly: thank's for your answer... maybe i missed something (it doesn't work earlier)
1409 [16:33:31] <jelly> judd: file bin/apachectl
1410 [16:33:35] <judd> Search for bin/apachectl in stretch/amd64: apache2: usr/sbin/apachectl
1411 [16:33:40] <pidroid> i will retry
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1413 [16:33:41] <jelly> pidroid: what are you trying to achieve
1414 [16:33:47] <han-solo> themill: Okay. Thanks guys
1415 [16:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1142
1416 [16:34:16] <han-solo> judd: file bin/netstat
1417 [16:34:20] <judd> Search for bin/netstat in stretch/amd64: net-tools: bin/netstat
1418 [16:34:55] <han-solo> themill: What is judd using ? Any API exposed ?
1419 [16:34:59] <greycat> !judd
1420 [16:34:59] <dpkg> judd is a window into the Ultimate Debian Database (ask me about <udd>). Judd can look up package, PCI ID and kernel config information. See replaced-url
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1424 [16:36:11] <han-solo> greycat: Thanks
1425 [16:36:31] <pidroid> jelly: i tried these (each trial with a : systemctl restart snmpd)
1426 [16:36:37] <pidroid> SNMPDOPTS='-Ls 4 d -Lf /dev/null -u snmp -I -smux -p /var/run/snmpd.pid -g root 0.0.0.0'
1427 [16:36:42] <pidroid> SNMPDOPTS='-Ls4d -Lf /dev/null -u snmp -I -smux -p /var/run/snmpd.pid -g root 0.0.0.0'
1428 [16:36:48] <pidroid> SNMPDOPTS='-Ls0-4 d -Lf /dev/null -u snmp -I -smux -p /var/run/snmpd.pid -g root 0.0.0.0'
1429 [16:36:55] <themill> The file search stuff isn't using UDD, it's just wading through the Contents files
1430 [16:36:58] <jelly> pidroid: -Ls4d without spaces ought to work
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1432 [16:37:21] <jelly> also -LS0-4d without spaces and with uppercase S
1433 [16:37:36] <themill> han-solo: judd doesn't do anything different to apt-file, except it's python not perl and it knows all archs and all releases.
1434 [16:37:53] <han-solo> themill: cool
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1436 [16:39:06] <jelly> pidroid: well, actually I'm not sure about -Ls4d any more, can't find any systems configured that way right now :-)
1437 [16:39:24] <jelly> pidroid: go with -LS0-4d and see what happens
1438 [16:40:33] <pidroid> nothing, i think i would find an error somewhere
1439 [16:40:48] <pidroid> (too much log kill the log ^^)
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1441 [16:40:56] <jelly> han-solo: isn't a fixed command set via irc also an API!
1442 [16:41:16] <jelly> there are lots of botnets using that kind of API
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1444 [16:42:54] <han-solo> jelly: Yep
1445 [16:43:11] <han-solo> that's fine too, i think
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1447 [16:44:25] <pidroid> jelly: i found this but i didn't understand : replaced-url
1448 [16:45:03] <jelly> hm
1449 [16:45:27] <pidroid> i think it was what it doesn't work but my knowledge of english isn't enough to understand
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1453 [16:47:13] <pidroid> i think i must create a file to launch the service but i need to deactivate the older service ? i'm right ? (and where it is ?)
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1457 [16:47:32] <greycat> It's discussing customizing a service.
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1459 [16:48:01] <greycat> Local customizations of /etc/init.d/* services were done different than customizations of local systemd services.
1460 [16:48:37] <greycat> With init.d there was typically a file in /etc/default/ that you could edit to set shell variables that would be used by the init.d shell scripts.
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1463 [16:49:29] <greycat> With systemd, there are no shell scripts, so there's nothing that can be dotted in. Customizations are done by creating a "drop-in directory" as described at replaced-url
1464 [16:49:58] <pidroid> greycat: ah ok, that is why my modification doesn't work, snmp is managed by services and not by init.d
1465 [16:50:08] <pidroid> ok i read that
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1467 [16:50:38] <wtflux--> morning all
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1472 [16:52:39] <nemo> so. bit of a question about backports
1473 [16:52:48] <nemo> I wanted to get latest libreoffice which is in backports (yay)
1474 [16:53:01] <jelly> but a systemd unit can be told to read environment vars from a file. Not sure if content of those files can be used in the command line starting a service
1475 [16:53:06] <nemo> in synaptic I can "force version" but it doesn't seem to pick up any of the dependent libreoffice packages
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1477 [16:53:15] <greycat> Depends on the service, of course.
1478 [16:53:21] <nemo> what's the correct way to pick up libreoffice-* from backports as well?
1479 [16:53:27] <han-solo> jelly: yeah, you can do some bash hackery i think
1480 [16:53:34] <han-solo> shell hackery, if you will
1481 [16:53:42] <greycat> nemo: "apt-get -t stretch-backports libreoffice" should work
1482 [16:53:46] <nemo> ok
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1487 [16:54:25] <nemo> greycat: with "install" that worked nicely. thanks
1488 [16:54:31] <greycat> ugh, yeah
1489 [16:54:32] <nemo> guess I was hoping there was something gui-ish ☺
1490 [16:54:48] <themill> synaptic doesn't seem to get a huge amount of love of late
1491 [16:55:00] <nemo> greycat: you wouldn't happen to know anything about how to beg that a flag get added to debian kernel would you?
1492 [16:55:06] <nemo> that's the main reason I'm hanging out here
1493 [16:55:16] <nemo> not even in main build necessarily - for one thing it seems to be an AMD-only flag
1494 [16:55:27] <greycat> replaced-url
1495 [16:55:32] <nemo> greycat: I already tried asking in the bug, but it doesn't seem to have any attention
1496 [16:55:40] <nemo> it's long-standing existing bug
1497 [16:55:49] <greycat> Well, that's the official channel for asking the kernel maintainers to do stuff.
1498 [16:55:53] <nemo> mm :/
1499 [16:56:13] <nemo> seems like such a minor request, but I understand that anything in kernel can easily end up not being minor
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1505 [16:56:57] <nemo> It's for CONFIG_PINCTRL_AMD=y btw - and the bug was filed a year and a day ago ☺
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1529 [17:14:18] <jhutchins_wk> nemo: Are you wanting to get the option added to the kernel, or to just change the config?
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1531 [17:14:55] <greycat> ... huh?
1532 [17:15:23] <greycat> (also, what's the bug number?)
1533 [17:16:15] <petn-randall> nemo: What is the bug number?
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1537 [17:18:10] <nemo> petn-randall, jhutchins_wk replaced-url
1538 [17:18:11] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1539 [17:18:21] <nemo> there's an existing kernel.org bug on this too
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1541 [17:18:37] <nemo> the last comment noted that as of the... 4.13 kernel I believe, the touchpad was now working reliably
1542 [17:18:39] <OxCEA5ED> high! anybody here familiar with the lua-yaml package? or at least knowing why a feature introduced in the upstream package version 6.0 is not there in the debian package 6.1-2 ?
1543 [17:18:50] <nemo> in addition on various other forums one can find users reporting that 4.13, 4.14 etc work well
1544 [17:18:54] <nemo> but they probably have that option enabled
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1547 [17:18:59] <jhutchins_wk> ,kernels
1548 [17:19:00] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc3-686 (4.19~rc3-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-1-686-pae (4.18.8-1); buster: 4.18.0-1-686-pae (4.18.6-1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u4); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u4~deb8u1);
1549 [17:19:01] <judd> wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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1552 [17:19:15] <nemo> jhutchins_wk: yeah... I'm on stretch backports kernel. 4.17
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1554 [17:19:24] <nemo> jhutchins_wk: which in theory should work fine, if that config option was enabled
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1557 [17:19:58] <nemo> I did try downloading the source and packaging my own following isntructions on debian wiki page, but failed miserably at getting a kernel where anything worked (usb... wifi...) - I know how to do that manually on my gentoo machine, but did not want to mess up your carefully tuned structure
1558 [17:20:07] <jhutchins_wk> nemo: Ah, well, if there's not a boot option to enable it, just rebuild the kernel with it enabled.
1559 [17:20:07] <nemo> so figured I'd see if upstream could generate a kernel with this flag
1560 [17:20:18] <nemo> jhutchins_wk: yes. that's exactly what I tried, and screwed up badly
1561 [17:20:28] <f0x> I can't connect to WPA-EAP/TTLS wifi anymore using wpa_supplicant
1562 [17:20:29] <nemo> so was just hoping I could get one made by a debian build server or something
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1564 [17:20:42] <f0x> running debian sid, error is <3>CTRL-EVENT-EAP-STATUS status='local TLS alert' parameter='protocol version'
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1566 [17:23:05] <petn-randall> nemo: Did you recompile the backports kernel with the flag, and it worked? If yes, that's valuable info to add to the bug report.
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1569 [17:24:04] <nemo> petn-randall: the touchpad didn't work, but then almost nothing else worked - the reporter did note that it worked however, last year
1570 [17:24:13] <nemo> petn-randall: I reverted my kernel hurridly
1571 [17:24:32] <nemo> did not look into whether for example passing the flag mentioned in the bug would have helped
1572 [17:24:37] <nemo> since it was clearly very broken
1573 [17:24:39] <petn-randall> nemo: They reported that it *didn't* work.
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1575 [17:24:57] <nemo> ?????
1576 [17:24:58] <nemo> no
1577 [17:25:16] <greycat> The original report said it partially-worked in 4.12, and nemo says that upstream says it's fixed in 4.14.
1578 [17:25:46] <nemo> greycat: yeah, that nemo is me ☺
1579 [17:25:48] <greycat> right
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1581 [17:26:04] <nemo> greycat: it looks like this reporter was more active in his kernel bug report
1582 [17:26:07] <nemo> rather than the debian one
1583 [17:26:08] <petn-randall> nemo: Ok, so does a recent kernel with that option enabled make the touchpad completely work?
1584 [17:26:10] <nemo> hang on lemme find it
1585 [17:26:19] <nemo> petn-randall: according to the kernel.org bug, yes
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1588 [17:28:09] <petn-randall> nemo: If you can confirm that by recompiling the kernel and testing it, I'm sure that Ben Hutchings would add it soon.
1589 [17:28:10] <nemo> petn-randall: replaced-url
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1593 [17:28:57] <nemo> petn-randall: yeah, that's what I was failing hard at - I was asking if by any chance there was a debian build server that I could submit a .deb version and kernel configf
1594 [17:29:10] <nemo> petn-randall: hell, if I could build it myself I wouldn't need you guys to update it ☺
1595 [17:29:37] <nemo> if this was my gentoo box I'd feel way more confident, but I'm not familiar with the arcane internals of .deb and my attempt to follow the wiki page(s) did not work out well
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1598 [17:30:31] <nemo> there's also replaced-url
1599 [17:30:47] <nemo> hmmm ubuntu released a fixed kernel cool
1600 [17:30:55] <nemo> maybe I can use theirs
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1602 [17:31:08] <nemo> replaced-url
1603 [17:31:22] <nemo> interesting. they fixed it in 4.13
1604 [17:32:51] <sd1074> Hi, I am planning to use my old Lenovo y580 laptop as a long-term home backup server with Debian on it and two 3TB drives connected via USB3. Does anyone have any experience using a laptop as a server? Obviously it does not have a server hardware (no ECC-memory, one processor, etc).
1605 [17:33:44] <jelly> if it's cooled well enough and stored safely things might work well
1606 [17:33:47] <FinalX> a server is anything that serves clients
1607 [17:33:59] <FinalX> so.. whatever works :P
1608 [17:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1149
1609 [17:34:10] <sd1074> On the other hand it even comes with "embedded UPS" :) Any recommendations? For example, I will turn of the gaming grapchis card to reduce power consumption, maybe will remove the DVD drive completely
1610 [17:34:17] <nemo> sd1074: gonna guess since it's backup, worst case... it fails. and you plug those 2 3TB drives into something else ☺
1611 [17:34:49] <nemo> sd1074: I do like using laptops as servers - my living room "tv media machine" is a laptop. slim profile, and I can unplug it from TV for trips ☺
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1614 [17:35:24] <jelly> sd1074: make sure you're able to disable power saving features for external drives, models often have aggressive spin-down after like 2-5 idle minutes by default
1615 [17:35:27] <greycat> I wouldn't use the word server for a media player, but *shrug*
1616 [17:35:29] <sd1074> nemo, yes, but you know since it's going to be a relatively decent machine, I may decide to actually use it as a web server and more,
1617 [17:35:48] <nyov> sd1074: if I send you a raspi for a backup-machine, will you send me the notebook? ;)
1618 [17:35:53] <nemo> sd1074: heh. I imagine it's got more than enough oomph - my domain is still running off an old intel atom w/ a gig of ram
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1621 [17:36:17] <nemo> nyov: I've been thinking of transitioning to my rpi! it's got better specs than what I'm using now, and would burn a tenth of the power
1622 [17:36:22] <jelly> r.pi has really crappy io capabilities, not good for a file/backup server
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1624 [17:36:43] <sd1074> I've been using an ras PI type of server for a while, a lot of work with that stuff and constant issues
1625 [17:36:46] <nyov> yeah that is sadly true
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1627 [17:37:18] <sd1074> jelly, thanks, didn't think about it
1628 [17:38:02] <jelly> your 2015 laptop can push 2x250MB/s to two drives (if you connect external SSDs), your r.pi can't do 200MB/s total
1629 [17:38:19] <nemo> jelly: well my network can't do 200MB/s anyway
1630 [17:38:23] <nemo> so that's probably not really an issue
1631 [17:38:26] <nemo> ok. it *can*
1632 [17:38:29] <nemo> but most everyone is on wifi
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1635 [17:39:04] <jelly> nemo: 1Gpbs is like 100-120MB/s if you're lucky, but if that's multiplied by two if you're writing to raid1
1636 [17:39:06] <nemo> actually, hm. I bet I'm still on a 100Mb home switch - so no, I can't push that much anyway
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1638 [17:39:23] <nemo> jelly: sooo, yeah, guess I wouldn't notice the rpi's perf at home - and I'd still cut down on my power bill
1639 [17:40:04] <jelly> so 300MB/s total bandwidth. And cheap arm boards just aren't designed for that
1640 [17:40:16] <sd1074> i guess i can also add more memory
1641 [17:40:25] <FinalX> newer rpi's have gbit, but it's capped to the usb bus speed, so you'll never reach that either.. plus it's all on one controller, so you can't really sustain the usb bus speed to both a drive and the network either, limiting both
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1643 [17:41:12] <FinalX> that said, my rpi in the utility cabinet takes almost 0 space, hanging on the wall.. though it has 4x2TB attached, and is doing Ubuntu 18.04 with ZFS :)
1644 [17:41:36] <sd1074> i am just kinda surprised why i rarely hear about using old laptops as servers. They are low power, come with battery, have all sorts of interfaces.
1645 [17:41:53] <nemo> sd1074: I imagine 'cause laptops start failing over time due to the stress of normal use
1646 [17:41:56] <FinalX> very, very crappy performance.. but it works. I have a spare laptop too, and thought about it, but takes too much space and electricity (would be a huge bill as opposed to the rpi)
1647 [17:42:02] <nemo> sd1074: and then you try to find a new HD and it costs as much as a new laptop...
1648 [17:42:05] <jelly> if you get a board with native sata on the SoC you can do better, but a) r.pi is not one of those b) SoC and boards with more that a single SATA port are not found often or are not that cheap
1649 [17:42:28] <RoyK> FinalX: how did you connect 2x2TB to an rpi?
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1651 [17:42:42] <FinalX> RoyK: 4x, and USB
1652 [17:42:57] <RoyK> ok
1653 [17:43:12] <RoyK> probably slow, though, compared to a pc
1654 [17:43:18] <FinalX> it's holding backup copies of stuff on my colocation, incremental snapshots and such.. so doesn't need to perform well really
1655 [17:43:27] <jelly> FinalX: what kind of uptime do you get and how much power does the complete setup pull
1656 [17:43:30] <sd1074> nemo, laptop start failing how?
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1658 [17:44:02] <FinalX> jelly: no idea about the power, but it's been running for a year now and my electricity bill is lower than what I get back from government subsidiaries for using "green" electricity, so.. :)
1659 [17:44:14] <sd1074> I plan to keep my small SSD inside and connet to 3TB drives via USB, so replcaing them is not an issue at all
1660 [17:44:25] <FinalX> it's running well really, just very crappy performance for obvious reasons
1661 [17:44:39] <nemo> sd1074: because they get carried around, banged around, they overheat more easily..
1662 [17:45:01] <nemo> sd1074: my mom's would shut down due to overheating every other day 'cause she'd use it on the bed and block fans w/ blankets
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1664 [17:45:16] <nemo> had to replace keyboard on my SO's laptop *twice* due to spilled drinks. and it finally failed - probably due to same drinks
1665 [17:45:36] <FinalX> my NAS/media server is my colocated server really, so no real NAs-setup running at home.. and with gbit fiber from home, it doesn't really matter where it runs
1666 [17:45:38] <nemo> and yeah, if HD isn't SSD, as shock resistant as they are, they eventually run into issues.
1667 [17:45:43] <nemo> older ones are less likely to be
1668 [17:45:50] <jelly> nemo: "watch the movies on the other side of the bed mom"
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1670 [17:46:48] <sd1074> ok, I see
1671 [17:47:23] <sd1074> in fact mine also has a kinda serious problem.. it basically would not charge if turned on with the battery installed
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1674 [17:47:52] <bites> sd1074: make sure to put the drives in raid1
1675 [17:48:42] <sd1074> to make it charge, I have to 1) power it off 2) unplug the charger 3) remove battery 4) plug the charger 5) turn it on 6) put the battery back in
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1677 [17:48:56] <sd1074> bites, yes, that's what i plan to do
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1690 [18:00:55] <sd1074> nemo, just saw you msg about SO's laptop. You know if you had to replace the keyboard twice, maybe it's time to replace the SO ;)
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1692 [18:01:46] <nemo> sd1074: keyboards are cheap 😝
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1695 [18:03:08] <OxCEA5ED> high! anybody here familiar with the lua-yaml package? or at least knowing why a feature introduced in the upstream package version 6.0 is not there in the debian package 6.1-2 ?
1696 [18:03:59] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: the feature was optional perhaps?
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1698 [18:04:26] <petn-randall> ,v lua-yaml
1699 [18:04:27] <judd> Package: lua-yaml on amd64 -- jessie: 5-1; buster: 6.1-2; sid: 6.1-2; stretch: 6.1-2
1700 [18:04:28] <OxCEA5ED> no? it's a key feature...
1701 [18:04:33] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: that's the usual reason why binary X might be missing feature Y, it's a non-critical compile time thing that might be unstable or have a lot of dependencies
1702 [18:04:36] <sd1074> heh, but eventually the laptop failed, then she may crash a car. I had similar experience. Spent an entire nitght to fix her phone and in a few days she just smashed it "accidentally" against a stone.
1703 [18:04:40] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: what's the feature?
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1705 [18:04:47] <sd1074> ..sorry for off topic
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1708 [18:05:06] <nemo> sd1074: perhaps she really wanted a new phone, not a fix ☺
1709 [18:05:17] <OxCEA5ED> yaml.dump() for instance... btw, when i compiled from source, it was compiled in without specifying any option...
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1712 [18:06:12] <sd1074> nemo, yours got a new laptop too right? :)
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1728 [18:13:00] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: so... I cloned that repo and the dump functionality appears to have been in there since basically, well, forever
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1730 [18:13:29] <nemo> $ hg grep --all "local function dump" lib/yaml.lua:68:+:local function dump (list) hg log -r 68 Sun Aug 25 21:14:14 2013 +0700
1731 [18:13:36] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: gonna guess this is PEBKAC
1732 [18:13:41] <nemo> but will fetch the package and see
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1734 [18:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1143
1735 [18:14:17] <nemo> I'm only mildly curious about this 'cause unc0rr transitioned some hedgewars config to yaml, and we do use lua ☺
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1739 [18:16:50] <nemo> huh... that's odd
1740 [18:17:06] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: the main fail seems to be the package is lacking init.lua O_o
1741 [18:17:27] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: I'd say it's a broken package at that point, and should file a bug with the maintainer after verifying adding init.lua fixes things
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1743 [18:17:43] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: replaced-url
1744 [18:17:48] <OxCEA5ED> well... i could compile it here without hassle (when i figured what the lukefile and build-aux/luke were)
1745 [18:17:52] <nemo> kinda puzzled how that happened
1746 [18:18:06] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: I mean, init.lua is where dump and other things are exposed...
1747 [18:18:14] <nemo> but it's not in the .deb
1748 [18:18:23] <OxCEA5ED> oh...
1749 [18:18:44] <nemo> copying it to /usr/share/lua/*/lyaml would probably fix..
1750 [18:19:10] <nemo> lemme unpack the .deb - it might just be an install config fail
1751 [18:19:19] <OxCEA5ED> i will try sooner... since there's still something wrong with my self-compiled version...
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1754 [18:20:44] <OxCEA5ED> or i misunderstood something...
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1757 [18:21:37] <nemo> huh.. I don't see it in the package at all. that's weird
1758 [18:21:39] <ESphynx> hi guys, why does installing libfreetype6-dev:i386 try to remove the 64 bit version?
1759 [18:22:30] <petn-randall> ESphynx: Because it's set so in the "conflicts:" field.
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1761 [18:23:16] <OxCEA5ED> nemo: what don't you see there? init.lua? it's in lib/lyaml here...
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1766 [18:23:35] <ESphynx> petn-randall, I want to have both installed
1767 [18:23:49] <greycat> ESphynx: you generally can only have one of each foo-dev package
1768 [18:23:57] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: I'm using lua-yaml_6.1-2_amd64.deb
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1770 [18:24:01] <ESphynx> greycat, no I always have both 32 and 64 bit versions installed
1771 [18:24:20] <greycat> Of the shared libs, sure. Of the -dev package, not normally.
1772 [18:24:27] <ESphynx> for these key dependencies we use... always run into issues from time to time but it normalyl works ( and I had it workign on my other Debian system before my laptop died )
1773 [18:24:31] <OxCEA5ED> nemo, so it seems to be a packaging thing...
1774 [18:24:36] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: yes indeed
1775 [18:24:40] <ESphynx> greycat, the dev as well.
1776 [18:24:56] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: it could be related to the fact they added init.lua last year and maaaaybe the packager didn't include it? dunno...
1777 [18:25:05] <ESphynx> normally include files should work for any architectures anyway
1778 [18:25:29] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: I'm not too strong on debian packaging which is why I'm here in the first place ☺
1779 [18:25:36] <greycat> ESphynx: a -dev package puts a libfoo.so symlink in /usr/lib/ or something, which means this is the library that the linker will pick up. So it's one-at-a-time.
1780 [18:25:42] <nemo> but, yeah, lua and yaml was instantly interesting due to Hedgewars
1781 [18:26:06] <OxCEA5ED> hedgewars? sound like a game...
1782 [18:26:09] <nemo> yes
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1784 [18:26:15] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: well lua is often used for games..
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1786 [18:26:46] <OxCEA5ED> yeah, and for other apps that need a quick-to-plug-in scripting engine...
1787 [18:27:05] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: true true - it has a reputation for being lightweight, simple and fast
1788 [18:27:05] <OxCEA5ED> i wonder why the gdb guys didn't use lua and instead opted for python...
1789 [18:27:10] <ESphynx> greycat, I don't have a /usr/lib/libpng.so but I have both /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpng.so and /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu and that works just fine
1790 [18:27:11] <greycat> Hmm, seems it's no longer a symlink. /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so is a small text file now.
1791 [18:27:18] <nemo> all of which are popular for tossing scripting into a game but other things too
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1793 [18:27:27] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: lot easier to generate bindings than for other things
1794 [18:27:40] <ESphynx> -dev packages are a silly idea to begin with.
1795 [18:27:55] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: the one thing I like about lua is they have that "end" keyword - python's magic whitespace pisses me off ☺
1796 [18:28:07] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: plus hedgewars engine is written in pascal so "end" isn't too weird to me already 😉
1797 [18:28:30] <OxCEA5ED> nemo: python has far more serious problems than their indentation-style code blocks :-D
1798 [18:28:32] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: their table/hash/array thing messes me up periodically tho
1799 [18:28:56] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: probably way off-topic for #debian at this point so I won't continue listing things that annoy me about python
1800 [18:29:50] <OxCEA5ED> nemo: when you are into lua, allow me a question please... do you know a method to read in/parse another lua file, in the style of C include? i. e. not via the require() function?
1801 [18:30:04] <OxCEA5ED> or we go pm...
1802 [18:30:09] <petn-randall> ESphynx: Don't both versions of libfreetype6-dev ship exactly the same files?
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1804 [18:30:36] <greycat> I guess the /usr/lib/libfoo.so thing is pre-multiarch, so I was out of date on that.
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1806 [18:31:25] <ESphynx> petn-randall, I don't know... seems sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so.6 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so
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1808 [18:31:31] <ESphynx> helped me get somewhere...
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1810 [18:32:18] <ESphynx> seriously, dev packages are a bad idea.
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1812 [18:32:28] <nemo> OxCEA5ED: how about joining #hedgewars ? ☺ we can chat there
1813 [18:32:33] <ESphynx> symlinks take no room, header files typically take very little room compared to actual library size
1814 [18:32:49] <greycat> A lot of -dev packages also include a libfoo.a
1815 [18:33:19] <ESphynx> greycat, isn't most things built dynamically ?
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1817 [18:33:42] <greycat> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4617974 Jan 14 2018 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.a
1818 [18:34:18] <ESphynx> libc.a sounds like a core dev package thing... but all the different libraries
1819 [18:34:29] <ESphynx> sudo apt-get install gcc-multilib -- should I install that now with multilib?
1820 [18:34:59] <greycat> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng16.a
1821 [18:35:00] <greycat> etc.
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1824 [18:36:11] <ESphynx> greycat, sounds like something that should be packaged separately? static libraries? that DOES take up space but what if you alwys link shared lbiraries
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1831 [18:39:21] <ESphynx> petn-randall, if it ships the same files shouldn't only one exist? :P
1832 [18:39:35] <ESphynx> and it failed to setup that symlink
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1836 [18:41:26] <ZorroT> how do you su into a non-shell user like mysql user?
1837 [18:42:07] <ESphynx> seems I had to do this: sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libGL.so /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1
1838 [18:42:17] <plujon> How can I install a debug version of vlc?
1839 [18:42:18] <ESphynx> every new time I try to set up a 32 bit build environment I run into different issues
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1842 [18:43:08] <greycat> ESphynx: I would make that a relative symlink instead of an absolute one.
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1844 [18:43:24] <ESphynx> greycat, right...
1845 [18:43:46] <plujon> apt-get install vlc-dbg # doesn't exist... must I compile it myself?
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1847 [18:43:54] <greycat> ZorroT: sudo -u username -s
1848 [18:43:59] <ESphynx> greycat, it sucks that I have to resort to manual symlinks when Debian is supposed to have a great packaging system
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1854 [18:46:11] <petn-randall> ESphynx: I'm guessing there are reasons why it's that way; if not, file a bug report.
1855 [18:46:43] <ZorroT> greycat: thank you!
1856 [18:46:53] <ESphynx> petn-randall, I would spend all my time filing bug reports. this stuff is always broken differently. multi lib is just not well tested, that's what it is.
1857 [18:47:13] <greycat> Looking at the file list for libfreetype6-dev, that /usr/bin/freetype-config looks like a probable culprit.
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1859 [18:47:35] <greycat> And .... yes, it's readable text, and it has libdir="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu" inside it.
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1861 [18:48:41] <ESphynx> fontconfig, freetype and gif are all broken can't have both i386 and 64 bit installed.
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1865 [18:48:57] <greycat> What you call broken, I call normal and expected.
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1869 [18:49:19] <ESphynx> greycat, it's a common use case to want to build for both 32 bit and 64 bit targets on the same development machine.
1870 [18:49:43] <ESphynx> and it works for most libraries except those buggy ones
1871 [18:49:46] <greycat> I suggest a chrooted 32-bit dev environment.
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1873 [18:49:57] <ESphynx> I don't like your suggestion.
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1882 [18:51:56] <han-solo> i suggest RISCV, i have no idea...
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1884 [18:52:13] <ESphynx> greycat, realize that all I'm missing are 3 symlinks in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/ that take no space at all, and you are suggesting to me to waste probably gigabytes of disk space to have a WHOLE entire system. (despite the extra inconvenience)
1885 [18:52:14] <ESphynx> come on.
1886 [18:52:38] <ZorroT> i'm trying to reset the root password for mysql/mariadb -- the advice on replaced-url
1887 [18:52:44] <greycat> I am suggesting a thing because it is a thing you can actually do.
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1889 [18:52:58] <greycat> You are suggesting that a magical Debian fairy overhaul everything.
1890 [18:53:04] <ESphynx> greycat, well I added the symlinks and I can now build both 32 and 64 bit easily for my same system.
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1892 [18:53:15] <ESphynx> greycat, I am suggesting that Debian is broken and someone should fix it!
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1894 [18:53:21] <greycat> Then file a bug report.
1895 [18:53:22] <petn-randall> ESphynx: patches welcome.
1896 [18:53:41] <ESphynx> petn-randall, well it's a design issue. someone decided to not include those .so, only the .so.6
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1899 [18:53:54] <greycat> ... now you're just adding more noise.
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1901 [18:53:59] <ESphynx> and to bundle conflicting things in the -dev:i386 ... but clearly the .so doesn't conflict.
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1904 [18:54:06] <petn-randall> ESphynx: building things on a host system is just a broken development environment.
1905 [18:54:07] <greycat> What do you expect *US* to do about it?
1906 [18:54:29] <ESphynx> greycat, I am trying to understand what could be done about it. how it could be fixed :)
1907 [18:54:34] <greycat> File a bug report.
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1910 [18:55:14] <petn-randall> ESphynx: If you want to crossbuild, the recommended procedure is to use a chroot or a VM for that. That's the only way you can be sure that the build environment stays reproducible.
1911 [18:55:20] <ESphynx> greycat, I actually will. but I suspect there are hundreds of related bug reports already and I'm not sure it will move things.
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1913 [18:55:47] <petn-randall> ESphynx: Many upstream build scripts will enable features if you happen to have certain packages installed that are not required.
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1915 [18:56:26] <petn-randall> Well, if there are hundreds of wrong-way drivers on the motorway, what does that say about you?
1916 [18:56:34] <ESphynx> petn-randall, I cross-build from my same IDE for 64 bit, 32 bit, Windows, Android, Web Assembly.
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1922 [18:59:45] <jelly> ESphynx: not many -dev packages are multiarch compliant
1923 [19:01:14] <jelly> I jump similar hoops building nvidia drivers for 64bit kernel on a 32bit-mostly installation
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1925 [19:01:29] <ESphynx> jelly, it's painful :P
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1927 [19:01:51] <ESphynx> and I have to support users through this process
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1929 [19:02:04] <ESphynx> which is always running into different problems
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1932 [19:03:31] <jelly> see if you can make do with chroot helpers like sbuild/schroot/pbuilder/I really have no idea what's best supported
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1938 [19:07:18] <greycat> replaced-url
1939 [19:08:24] <greycat> libfreetype6 has "Multi-Arch: same" but libfreetype6-dev has no Multi-Arch header at all.
1940 [19:09:08] * greycat wonders why the Multiarch spec is on the Ubuntu wiki instead of the Debian wiki
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1945 [19:11:09] <ESphynx> jelly, well all I needed was to add those symlinks for the .so's manually for those -dev:i386 packages that would conflict.
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1947 [19:11:45] <greycat> and how does your build system deal with /usr/bin/freetype-config saying x86_64 when you're building for i386? By never using that program?
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1949 [19:11:56] <ESphynx> greycat, exactly :P
1950 [19:12:08] <greycat> But you can see why that doesn't generalize to everyone else.
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1954 [19:12:50] <ESphynx> greycat, well of course a proper solution would be ideal :) but in the meantime just having the .so symlinks there automatically would be nice
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1957 [19:13:28] <greycat> You mean "in the libfoo package instead of in the libfoo-dev package"? Even though the headers would be missing?
1958 [19:14:09] <greycat> You seem to be spending an extraordinary amount of time arguing for a broken band-aid that will help only you, among people who are not in a position to DO ANYTHING about it in the first place.
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1966 [19:19:13] <ESphynx> greycat, I was just trying to get a long with my builds :P I don't think it would help only me, and obviously a proper fix for these dev packages to be multiarch compliant is the proper solution.
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1973 [19:23:17] <ESphynx> thank you all :)
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1983 [19:31:57] <medard> hi
1984 [19:32:09] <medard> i have trouble installing debian 9.5 stable on my computer
1985 [19:32:28] <medard> which has 2 NVME disks in raid 1 and 2xhdd in raid 1 and one hdd by itself
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1987 [19:32:51] <medard> installation doesn't detect any drives
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2028 [19:56:27] <medard> well, this is helpful....
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2030 [19:58:56] <jhutchins_wk> medard: Which installer are you using?
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2032 [19:59:38] <nyov> I'd rather ask what his 'raid' is and if it has any kindof free firmware
2033 [20:00:34] <jelly> yes, having a raid before the OS is installed raises that interesting point
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2036 [20:04:45] <nyov> medard: use a plain SATA (or what have you) connected disk as the bootdisk,
2037 [20:05:32] <nyov> then install there, and you can be certain you have a bootable system, which then can go on and load raid-controller firmware for the rest
2038 [20:06:42] <medard> It is netinst. I really want to install my system on the raid. Is this possible/
2039 [20:06:53] <nyov> having all disks on the raid controller can be quite inconvenient
2040 [20:06:57] <nyov> as you're seeing
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2042 [20:07:13] <jelly> nyov: I haven't ever seen a raid controller for local disks with a linux driver that works after firmware load
2043 [20:07:14] <nyov> also if the controller dies, everything goes
2044 [20:07:38] <jelly> medard: first, what kind of raid controller is this
2045 [20:08:36] <jelly> if it's some sort of intel RST, that's fakeraid and you gain nothing by using it in raid mode. Switch it back to AHCI (native) mode
2046 [20:08:42] <medard> jelly: some kind of fake controller I think.
2047 [20:08:50] <medard> oh
2048 [20:08:51] <medard> really?
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2050 [20:09:40] <jelly> second, if the hardware is latest generation, Debian 9 kernel might not have drivers new enough to support it at all.
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2052 [20:10:21] <jelly> medard: if you want people to take a look, boot a linux livecd/liveusb and pastebin the output of "lspci -nn"
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2054 [20:10:48] <medard> jelly: Hmm, I'm just reading on it. It really seems like I won't benefit at all from nvme raid
2055 [20:11:03] <medard> I'll probably just install system on one and do regular backups on other
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2058 [20:11:28] <jhutchins_wk> nyov: A hardware raid controller will typically present the array as a single, normal disk.
2059 [20:11:28] <nyov> linux has mdadm for soft-raid. it's not so bad
2060 [20:11:34] <jelly> raid improves availability. It's not backup.
2061 [20:11:49] <nyov> that ^
2062 [20:12:06] <tw> recent mdadm also has support for irst on-disk format.
2063 [20:12:10] <jelly> if you want the machine to keep working when a disk dies, you use raid
2064 [20:12:12] <nyov> jhutchins_wk: yes, but most don't bring a driver that the debian installer knows about
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2067 [20:12:43] <nyov> (AFAIK)
2068 [20:12:45] <jelly> if you want your data to be safe from human error or hardware failure, you set up regular backups
2069 [20:12:47] <jhutchins_wk> nyov: Good ones do it all in firmware, no driver needed.
2070 [20:12:55] <nyov> ok
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2073 [20:13:24] <jhutchins_wk> !raid
2074 [20:13:24] <dpkg> Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks (RAID) is a system of multiple hard drives for sharing or replicating data. Ask me about RAID{0-5}, <software raid>, <fakeraid>, <megaraid>, <raid-resizing>, <rocketraid>. replaced-url
2075 [20:13:43] <medard> !raid1
2076 [20:13:43] <dpkg> hmm... raid1 is a single mirrored raid with a minimum of two drives.
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2078 [20:13:49] <medard> !raid0
2079 [20:13:49] <dpkg> RAID0 is the wrong choice and the worst solution of several options to solve the same problem (see <LVM>). It is also a misnomer, since the R of RAID is for Redundant, and RAID0 isn't. replaced-url
2080 [20:14:02] <medard> !raid2
2081 [20:14:20] <jelly> !msg the bot
2082 [20:14:20] <dpkg> Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and replaced-url
2083 [20:14:26] <medard> oh, sorry
2084 [20:14:48] <jelly> I'm going to add a "don't be sorry" to that factoid!
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2086 [20:17:13] <annadane> "there are no stupid q- wait, shit"
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2089 [20:20:53] <medard> Can softraid handle a drive failure?
2090 [20:20:59] <tw> yes
2091 [20:20:59] <medard> 1 drive failure
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2093 [20:21:10] <tw> up to whatever your raid configuration allows.
2094 [20:21:24] <medard> raid 1 allows for 1 failure if I understand this correctly
2095 [20:21:44] <Habbie> raid1 with two disks allows for 1 failure
2096 [20:21:49] <tw> With N disk RAID1, it allows for N-1 failures.
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2098 [20:21:52] <SwedeMike> medard: raid1 is mirroring, you can have more than two drives in the mirror, creating more redundancy.
2099 [20:22:01] <medard> okay, thanks
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2102 [20:23:32] <Kobaz> what's the major differences between rt_preempt kernels and cloud
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2106 [20:27:35] <plujon> sudo tcpdump -w foo # permission denied ?
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2109 [20:28:35] <jelly> plujon: which debian release? can you show actual command line and output?
2110 [20:29:06] <jelly> Kobaz: the cloud probably doesn't care about realtime
2111 [20:29:09] <avis> i use linux mint. is that benefical to the most current and good linux that is debian ?
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2113 [20:29:24] <tw> Kobaz: rt_preempt does just about everything slower, but it response better to interrupt driven task switches (eg, UI responsiveness). cloud always depends on the latest kernel and removes modules/drivers not needed for VMs.
2114 [20:29:27] <jhutchins_wk> !mint
2115 [20:29:27] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
2116 [20:29:28] <avis> sorry
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2119 [20:29:34] <greycat> Also, are you in a directory where "foo" can be opened for writing by root? E.g. not on an NFS-mounted file system.
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2121 [20:30:01] <jelly> avis: it's hard to assess how much downstream distros contribute back to debian
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2125 [20:31:29] <n4dir> plujon: while most use sudo as a replacement for su, it is "execute *a command* as another user" So first check with visudo after su how it is configured.
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2127 [20:31:44] <nyov> tw: that's raid5. don't you mean N-(N-1) ?
2128 [20:32:00] <greycat> If it were sudo disallowing the attempt, I'd expect a different error.
2129 [20:32:14] <n4dir> then i said nothing.
2130 [20:32:30] <greycat> "Permission denied", if that is the literal error (still waiting for confirmation), points to file system permissions.
2131 [20:32:41] <plujon> jelly: greycat: Oops, doesn't occur on debian 9; seems to only happen on an Ubuntu machine.
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2133 [20:32:59] <tw> nyov: in example, N=3. 3 disk RAID1 can handle 2 disk failures.
2134 [20:33:02] <plujon> I'll dig a little further...
2135 [20:33:21] <nyov> tw: yep
2136 [20:33:25] <tw> which is N-1.
2137 [20:33:41] <jelly> plujon: ah, alright, #ubuntu is right next door
2138 [20:33:47] <greycat> (and "Operation not permitted" points to other things that you're not allowed to do, that are not related to file system permissions -- e.g. binding to a port < 1024)
2139 [20:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1144
2140 [20:34:53] <nyov> tw: ah, N is your failing disks. got it
2141 [20:35:08] <tw> don't worry about syntax, we both understand what is going on.
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2148 [20:39:29] <plujon> greycat: I also misreported. :-/ `sudo tcpdump -w foo` works fine; `tcpdump -r foo` fails with "Permission denied" (even though foo is world readable). I'll go to #ubuntu now...
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2156 [20:41:50] <jelly> plujon: that's completely expected, you can't tcpdump with some root-only privileges
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2158 [20:43:34] <plujon> jelly: You shouldn't need sudo to read a tcpdump capture. Debian 9 doesn't suffer from this; but Ubuntu does.
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2161 [20:44:46] <jelly> plujon: tcpdump -w is not reading a capture.
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2165 [20:45:25] <jelly> ah, you wrote -r
2166 [20:45:27] <plujon> jelly: Sorry, I misreported originally, which is confusing.
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2182 [20:53:43] <plujon> FWIW, I think it's apparmor's doing. If the file isn't named "foo.pcap", permission is denied on reading. Grr.
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2191 [21:01:25] <jelly> "isn't" or "is"?
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2194 [21:02:13] <jelly> well, I don't care, it's SEP
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2202 [21:09:03] <cln> Hello, where I can find source code for previous version of exim4 - exiim-4.80-7 ?
2203 [21:09:36] <nyov> in wheezy
2204 [21:09:50] <greycat> ,v exim4
2205 [21:09:51] <judd> Package: exim4 on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.80-7+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 4.80-7+deb7u6; jessie: 4.84.2-2+deb8u5; jessie-security: 4.84.2-2+deb8u5; jessie-backports: 4.89-2+deb9u3~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.89-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 4.89-2+deb9u3; sid: 4.89-7; sid: 4.90.1-5; stretch-backports: 4.91-7~bpo9+1; buster: 4.91-7; sid: 4.91-7
2206 [21:10:12] <cln> version 4.80-7+deb7u3 i can download with command - apt-get source exim4=4.80-7+deb7u3 but 4.80-7 (without path) is not abailable
2207 [21:10:16] <greycat> yeah, "apt-get source exim4" on wheezy ought to work -- or go to packages.debian.org/exim4 and follow the links to the source
2208 [21:10:36] <greycat> ... what?
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2211 [21:11:35] <jelly> cln: snapshot.debian.org if you need that exact version
2212 [21:11:39] <nyov> is he saying he doesn't want the security patches?
2213 [21:12:20] <cln> yep, searching snapshot
2214 [21:12:24] <nyov> 'quilt pop -a' in the source should do that?
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2216 [21:13:28] <cln> replaced-url
2217 [21:13:35] <cln> jelly: thanks for your help
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2254 [21:46:44] <jelly> ,v tomcat
2255 [21:46:45] <judd> No package named 'tomcat' was found in amd64.
2256 [21:46:48] <jelly> ,v tomcat9
2257 [21:46:49] <judd> No package named 'tomcat9' was found in amd64.
2258 [21:48:48] <RoyK> ,v tomcat8
2259 [21:48:49] <judd> Package: tomcat8 on amd64 -- jessie: 8.0.14-1+deb8u11; jessie-security: 8.0.14-1+deb8u11; jessie-backports: 8.5.14-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 8.5.14-1+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 8.5.14-1+deb9u3; stretch-security: 8.5.14-1+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 8.5.33-1~bpo9+1; buster: 8.5.34-1; sid: 8.5.34-1
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2267 [21:54:09] <FightingFalcon> Sometimes this happens: i have a web server running, when i try to connect it refuses to connect to the web site BUT the server is up and running and i can connect via ssh. THat lasts 20 seconds and then it connects again
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2276 [21:57:21] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: That's not very clear. What web server? What release of Debian? Do you mean that the web pages are intermittently failing to load, or that the ssh connection reconnects? What error do you get when it fails?
2277 [21:58:15] <greycat> It sounds like the web server simply takes 20 seconds more to boot up than sshd does.
2278 [21:58:37] <FightingFalcon> I have varnish cache and nginx. its debian stretch... everything works fine but when i try to connect to website it refuses to connect for 20-30 seconds, but meanwhile i can connect to ssh and other functions work
2279 [21:58:59] <petn-randall> FightingFalcon: What do the server logs say?
2280 [21:59:09] <FightingFalcon> web server log? nothing.
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2282 [21:59:54] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Do you get the expected web page after the delay?
2283 [22:00:09] <FightingFalcon> yes i get it after 20 seconds or so
2284 [22:00:19] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Try turning varnish off.
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2286 [22:01:12] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: What kind of web page is it? Static HTML, PHP, Drupal, WordPress...?
2287 [22:01:12] <FightingFalcon> why?
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2289 [22:01:18] <FightingFalcon> wordpress
2290 [22:01:33] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Local mysql?
2291 [22:01:40] <FightingFalcon> yes
2292 [22:02:13] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Check your connection to the database, see if you can retrieve data at a normal speed.
2293 [22:02:28] <FightingFalcon> When the website fails right?
2294 [22:02:43] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Turning varnish off lets you see if ngnix is delivering the pages normally or not.
2295 [22:02:44] <jelly> "why disable X" is usually "as a debugging and isolation method to see if that one component causes something"
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2297 [22:03:25] <FightingFalcon> if there was a problem with varnish wouldnt it give a related error message?
2298 [22:03:47] <FightingFalcon> is there a log of all the connection attemps made to my server?
2299 [22:03:58] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: You have mutiple layers - database, PHP code, webserver, cache. You need to determine where the error is, and it's useful to work backwards.
2300 [22:04:19] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Yes.
2301 [22:04:47] <FightingFalcon> jhutchins where?
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2309 [22:08:29] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: I don't know, I'm an Apache guy, but it's certainly in either the configuration file or the ngnix docs.
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2311 [22:08:52] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: You might also do a "troubleshooting ngnix" search.
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2314 [22:09:25] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: You should also make sure the load on your server is not too high, checking with top and iostat and similar tools.
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2316 [22:09:40] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: If you're swapping to disk that really kills webserver performance.
2317 [22:10:02] <FightingFalcon> i disabled swapping as far as i know
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2319 [22:10:11] <FightingFalcon> Swap = 0
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2322 [22:10:33] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: You also want to make sure dns is working, and not (for instance) failing on ipv6 and causing a time-out.
2323 [22:10:39] <jolt> you could also try tcpdump or other packet sniffer to see if you can find the culprit by listening in on the traffic flow, and look at tcp handshake etc
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2325 [22:11:21] <jelly> jumping to tcpdump too soon is really a waste of time
2326 [22:11:38] <jolt> also the server-status page of nginx can show how many processes are active, and I assume varnish has something equal
2327 [22:11:52] <jelly> you're not going to sniff traffic or trace syscalls until you have no other choice
2328 [22:12:07] <jhutchins_wk> Chrome's "Developer Tools" can show you a bar graph of how long each element of the page is taking. Loading elements from third-party servers (ads) can cause that kind of behavior.
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2331 [22:12:56] <jolt> a long delay is definitely common for DNS problems, that's for sure
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2335 [22:13:37] <jolt> speaking of DNS, nginx has it's own resolver setting, and if that is set differently than the system resolver, then maybe that could be something
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2337 [22:13:46] <jolt> I'm head to be now, so good luck!
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2365 [22:41:15] <TinkerTiger> What is it with these packages that don't recognize when a library is newer than what they are asking for? even if they ask for >=?
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2369 [22:43:17] <Habbie> TinkerTiger, do you have an example/
2370 [22:43:20] <Habbie> TinkerTiger, ?
2371 [22:43:28] *** Joins: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip )
2372 [22:44:20] <TinkerTiger> A package is asking for libreadline version 6 and my computer has version 7.
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2375 [22:44:41] <TinkerTiger> Or, at least libreadline-dev is version 7.
2376 [22:44:59] <greycat> stretch has both rea ..., oh, it's a -DEV package
2377 [22:45:12] <greycat> Are you COMPILING something?
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2380 [22:45:30] <Habbie> TinkerTiger, but do you have an example of something asking for => and then being unhappy?
2381 [22:46:14] <TinkerTiger> Trying to install a package. Specifically wsjt-x.
2382 [22:46:31] <greycat> ,v wsjt-x
2383 [22:46:32] <judd> No package named 'wsjt-x' was found in amd64.
2384 [22:46:34] *** Quits: roshanavand (~roshanava@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2385 [22:46:35] <greycat> Try again.
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2388 [22:47:43] <TinkerTiger> It's not made it to the normal package installer yet.
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2391 [22:48:12] <greycat> Why did you mention libreadline-dev?
2392 [22:48:49] <TinkerTiger> Because I got that package from a thread about having this problem.
2393 [22:49:02] <Habbie> TinkerTiger, can you show us the actual errors/problems?
2394 [22:49:02] <greycat> Are you compiling something?
2395 [22:49:21] <greycat> ,v libreadline6
2396 [22:49:22] <judd> Package: libreadline6 on amd64 -- wheezy: 6.2+dfsg-0.1; jessie: 6.3-8+b3
2397 [22:49:36] <greycat> OK, strike that first aborted sentence. That's left over from jessie, probably.
2398 [22:49:52] <jelly> !bat
2399 [22:49:52] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2400 [22:50:02] <jelly> TinkerTiger: can you provide the above ^
2401 [22:50:09] <greycat> I wish we even knew that he's attempting to use apt.
2402 [22:50:27] <greycat> Far as I can tell he's trying to install something from a third party.
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2404 [22:50:48] <jelly> well, command line and error from dpkg as step 1) followed by steps 2) and 3) would be okay as well
2405 [22:51:33] <TinkerTiger> I know how it works. I've just run into this before and I don't understand how it happens.
2406 [22:51:47] <TinkerTiger> I was COMPLAINING.
2407 [22:51:55] <greycat> *plonk*
2408 [22:52:00] <Habbie> we treated it as a request for help
2409 [22:52:05] <greycat> I was HELPING. Not any more.
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2411 [22:52:18] <TinkerTiger> Thank you greycat.
2412 [22:52:22] <Habbie> so you wasted 10 minutes * 4 people of time
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2414 [22:53:36] <jelly> TinkerTiger: the support provided in here is more of a technical than psychological kind
2415 [22:54:11] <greycat> I still remember that one time we diagnosed someone with an ear infection after he complained of audio problems, though. But that was a one-time thing.
2416 [22:54:21] <petn-randall> hahahaha
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2418 [22:54:37] <jelly> that's still physical not psych!
2419 [22:54:38] <TinkerTiger> Heh.
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2421 [22:55:57] <TinkerTiger> I am going to do some checking o my own then I will either leave or I will make a serious attempt at resolving my issue, even if it's not something I want to do right now.
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2425 [22:57:22] <FightingFalcon> Im an idiot, jhutchins.... I set the max.children of php.fpm to 10... But that wasnt enough. I thought it was but no. I increased the value to 25 and everything is fine now
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2427 [22:58:12] <jelly> TinkerTiger: perhaps next time address the channel only after you want actual solutions, otherwise you risk a rude kick out
2428 [22:58:47] <TinkerTiger> jelly: I already received that message. Thank you.
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2435 [23:00:29] <greycat> Or even an answer to a question. "I'm installing a third-party .deb that Depends on libreadline6 and I'm on stretch which has libreadline7. How come it isn't working? Isn't libreadline7 >= libreadline6?"
2436 [23:01:17] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: Cool - just don't let it consume all of the resources (PHP is memory intense).
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2438 [23:01:28] <FightingFalcon> yep
2439 [23:01:41] <jhutchins_wk> FightingFalcon: There's an apache tuning script that will calculate that for you, dunno about ngnix.
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2443 [23:01:54] <FightingFalcon> im an nginx guy :D
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2445 [23:01:58] <TinkerTiger> greycat: I already received that message as well. Thank you.
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2451 [23:03:16] <CrystalMath> hi
2452 [23:03:29] <CrystalMath> why is the backports repository completely empty nowadays?
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2454 [23:03:44] <CrystalMath> a long time ago one could get any sid package on stable through backports
2455 [23:03:56] <CrystalMath> nowadays, of the 100 packages i needed, 0 were in the backports repository
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2457 [23:05:56] <annadane> you can backport your own packages if it's possible, otherwise it's a volunteer effort (like the rest of debian)
2458 [23:06:04] <annadane> wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation
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2460 [23:06:58] <jelly> CrystalMath: it's not completely empty.
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2462 [23:07:29] <jelly> ,v ansible
2463 [23:07:30] <judd> Package: ansible on amd64 -- jessie: 1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-backports: 2.2.1.0-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.2.1.0-2; stretch-backports: 2.6.3+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.6.4+dfsg-1; sid: 2.6.4+dfsg-1
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2465 [23:07:37] <jelly> see, stretch-backports
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2467 [23:07:53] <CrystalMath> jelly: yes but... it's much less useful than it was years ago
2468 [23:07:54] <greycat> A lot of people use kernels from it, too.
2469 [23:08:02] <CrystalMath> i find myself backporting everything myself
2470 [23:08:05] <annadane> there's also probably a fair few nix packages for what you want
2471 [23:08:18] <jelly> CrystalMath: have you seen autodeb
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2473 [23:08:20] <CrystalMath> now i have to backport xserver-xorg-video-openchrome
2474 [23:08:31] <CrystalMath> what's autodeb?
2475 [23:09:12] <jelly> replaced-url
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2478 [23:09:29] <CrystalMath> i don't want to do it automatically for all packages
2479 [23:09:47] <jelly> you don't have to do it for ALL the packages
2480 [23:09:56] <CrystalMath> also, if it compiles them locally, it's not better than backporting myself
2481 [23:10:04] <annadane> oh my god jelly that's amazing
2482 [23:10:37] <jelly> I'd dare say something keeping track and automatically building newer stuff when it arrives into sid is better than manual backports.
2483 [23:10:52] <annadane> i had no idea that existed
2484 [23:11:03] <jelly> annadane: GSOC 2018
2485 [23:11:30] <TinkerTiger> For your consideration, I am attemptinto install a third-party pakage using gdebi. This package was supposedly made for Ubuntu but I don't use that anymore. My command is: gdebi wsjtx_1.9.1_amd64.deb and the important output line is: Dependency is not satisfiable: libreadline6 (>= 6.0) Package readlien-common is version 7.1 I would really liek to be able to install this package but is there something
2486 [23:11:35] <jelly> I think "Summer" in GSOC is northern hemisphere oriented, so it's really new
2487 [23:11:36] <TinkerTiger> Ubuntu specific that is preventing this? I suppose that's speculation, I'm sorry.
2488 [23:11:48] <TinkerTiger> I'm in Stretch.
2489 [23:11:51] <CrystalMath> jelly: hmm... it also creates packages from things that aren't packaged?
2490 [23:12:06] <jelly> TinkerTiger: show ALL the info the bot asked for, not just what you think important
2491 [23:12:19] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
2492 [23:12:19] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2493 [23:13:17] <jelly> CrystalMath: I did not take a good look yet, but often automation can be applied to newer releases of upstream.
2494 [23:13:35] *** Joins: vjacob_ (~vjacob@replaced-ip )
2495 [23:14:05] <jelly> TinkerTiger: the output asked for in steps 2. and 3. can often provide enough clues to solve or understand the situation
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2498 [23:14:50] <jelly> ,v libreadline6
2499 [23:14:52] <judd> Package: libreadline6 on amd64 -- wheezy: 6.2+dfsg-0.1; jessie: 6.3-8+b3
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2501 [23:15:31] <awal1> When my system , bcoz of heavy use, appeals swap, it slows of course; but why after closing the heavy programs I see that ram use is minimal but system still slow . relogin to X doesn't help; I must reboot :(
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2503 [23:15:48] <CrystalMath> what's that package which has dget?
2504 [23:16:01] <jelly> CrystalMath: /msg judd file bin/dget
2505 [23:16:11] <CrystalMath> devscripts
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2509 [23:16:48] <petn-randall> awal1: It still takes time for it to swap back in.
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2512 [23:18:06] <TinkerTiger> This issue is not currently resolvable. Thank you. Be well.
2513 [23:18:08] *** Parts: TinkerTiger (~will@replaced-ip ) ()
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2515 [23:18:43] <awal1> petn-randall, ah, ok
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2518 [23:19:02] <awal1> next time i'll wait and see if it become normal
2519 [23:19:05] <jelly> yeah, best noone tell them to pick old libs from old releases to be able to install old packages
2520 [23:20:54] <jelly> awal1: you can force the issue by doing "swapoff -a && sleep 1 && swapon -a" but swapoff is not very efficient
2521 [23:21:29] *** Joins: acxty (~valle@replaced-ip )
2522 [23:21:40] <acxty> Hi guys, I have several scripts that connect to a mysql db. One pid is getting more than 100% cpu capacity. I only have the PID using htop but want to know what script is running. On the command information I only get that is /usr/sbin/mysql.... how can I find out which script is it?
2523 [23:21:55] <jelly> (it's horrible, absolutely unoptimized and doing random i/o in tiny page-sized bits)
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2525 [23:22:44] <awal1> jelly , good, i will try that next time, thanks
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2527 [23:23:30] <jelly> acxty: if you have a mysql client open, "show processlist"
2528 [23:23:46] <jelly> acxty: or try mytop
2529 [23:23:59] <jelly> (mytop has its own package)
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2541 [23:34:13] <Neobenedict> hi
2542 [23:34:19] <Neobenedict> why do i get Cannot exec 'avs2yuv': No such file or directory when trying to run it in a screen
2543 [23:34:26] <Neobenedict> it is defined as a function in .bashrc
2544 [23:34:27] <Neobenedict> like so
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2546 [23:34:42] <Neobenedict> function avs2yuv() { WINEDEBUG=-all WINEPREFIX=/usr/share/avs2yuv/.wine wine /usr/share/avs2yuv/avs2yuv_x86.exe "$@"; }
2547 [23:35:08] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Does it work outside of screen?
2548 [23:35:10] <Neobenedict> ye
2549 [23:35:39] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: I'm guessing your .bashrc just doesn't get sourced.
2550 [23:36:10] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Try running "source ~/.bashrc" in the screen and test if it works then.
2551 [23:36:45] <Neobenedict> it works when in the screen
2552 [23:36:52] <Neobenedict> but if i type "screen avs2yuv" it doesnt work
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2555 [23:39:38] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Does it work *in* screen after typing "source ~/.bashrc"?
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2557 [23:39:50] <Neobenedict> it works in screen without typing that
2558 [23:40:17] <Neobenedict> and with typing too
2559 [23:40:22] <Neobenedict> but it doesnt work w hen starting the screen which is what i need
2560 [23:40:32] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Oh, "screen avs2yuv" should execute that command directly in the screen, right? Yes, that doesn't work.
2561 [23:40:40] <Neobenedict> so how do i make this work?
2562 [23:40:51] <Neobenedict> i need a 1 liner to do it
2563 [23:41:00] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Write a proper shell script to do it.
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2565 [23:41:15] <Neobenedict> can i just do screen bash -c or something
2566 [23:41:22] <petn-randall> Neobenedict: Or find a way to trick screen into reading .bashrc before executing that command.
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2573 [23:49:00] <Neobenedict> petn-randall: ok this works, but i have a new problem.
2574 [23:49:08] <Neobenedict> my command is screen avs2yuv -depth 10 test.avs - | x264
2575 [23:49:13] <Neobenedict> however this pipe is outside the screen
2576 [23:49:18] <Neobenedict> how do i pipe to a new process inside the screen
2577 [23:49:31] <Kelsar> write a script, call that
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2579 [23:49:58] <Neobenedict> well i need to be able to set command line options for both avs2yuv and x264
2580 [23:50:12] <Kelsar> you probably can make it work with bash -c, but honestly a script is easier
2581 [23:50:43] <Neobenedict> is it, though?
2582 [23:51:21] <Neobenedict> ok screen bash -c works
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