People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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2 [00:00:25] <spinningCat> i dont have internet debian kaptop
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5 [00:01:46] <spinningCat> i am searching .xauthority file
6 [00:02:01] <Necrony_> spinningCat, ls -lah /home/$USER/.Xauthority
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9 [00:02:36] <spinningCat> dont have that file
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11 [00:03:08] <spinningCat> is it a problem?
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13 [00:03:47] <Brigo> not sure.
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15 [00:04:13] <spinningCat> i couldnt connect wifi from terminal
16 [00:04:20] <Brigo> can you check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for errors? the line with error messages start with EE.
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19 [00:05:25] <spinningCat> i have some EE
20 [00:05:28] <spinningCat> gimme a moment
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24 [00:08:55] <spinningCat> Brigo, replaced-url
25 [00:10:29] <Brigo> spinningCat, was there any errors in the installation?
26 [00:10:42] <spinningCat> any log file?
27 [00:10:56] <spinningCat> i mean there was no error in installation
28 [00:12:48] <Brigo> spinningCat, is the nvidia kernel module load?
29 [00:13:10] <spinningCat> wh,ch module "nvidia"?
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32 [00:14:38] <Brigo> wh,ch???
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34 [00:14:49] <spinningCat> which
35 [00:14:53] <Brigo> yes
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40 [00:15:44] <spinningCat> you mean nvidia module
41 [00:15:52] <spinningCat> which module did you ask ?
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44 [00:16:31] <Brigo> spinningCat, nvidia
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46 [00:17:10] <Brigo> spinningCat, and you can run nvidia-detect for checking if you are installing the right nvidia driver version.
47 [00:17:12] <spinningCat> i did modprobe -r nvidia i got nvidia module not found
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49 [00:19:27] <spinningCat> what should i do?
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51 [00:19:35] <Brigo> run nvidia-detect
52 [00:20:57] <spinningCat> okay
53 [00:21:03] <spinningCat> i did
54 [00:21:12] <spinningCat> it suggest me to install nvidia-driver
55 [00:22:09] <Brigo> spinningCat, nice. If modprobe can't find the nvidia module most likely there was a problem building it.
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58 [00:22:20] <Brigo> we can try to rebuild it and see
59 [00:22:25] <spinningCat> sure
60 [00:22:38] <spinningCat> do i need internet?
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62 [00:22:54] <Brigo> can you check if you have the nvidia-kernel-dkms package installed?
63 [00:23:14] <spinningCat> sure
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66 [00:29:43] <spinningCat> i guess i will reinstall debian
67 [00:30:16] <spinningCat> thank you for that
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70 [00:30:35] <Brigo> spinningCat, why?
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77 [00:36:42] <michael2> !test
78 [00:36:42] <dpkg> Test failed.
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80 [00:39:16] <spinningCat> Brigo, it is 1 a.m. here
81 [00:39:21] <spinningCat> and i am tired sorry for that
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85 [00:46:15] <tmable> Is debian testing safe? As I understand it, it only gets security updates after a delay?
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87 [00:47:32] <mason> tmable: Only Stable is explicitly safe for production.
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90 [00:48:28] <tmable> So, what about on a desktop? Would it be unwise to use testing as a daily driver?
91 [00:48:45] <mtn> tmable: lots of people do
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93 [00:49:09] <mtn> tmable: you have to decide if it is "wise"
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95 [00:50:17] <dead0xbeef> Hoping for a nudge in the right direction with this one... I'm running Debian 9.5 in VMWare, and using lightdm and openbox. After my session has idled for a while, it switches back to the lightdm login. Does anyone know what's responsible for this, so I can turn it off? I'm generally a CLI user, and I haven't touched X in years, so I'm probably not using the right search terms to find the answer... I can't see anything in
96 [00:50:18] <dead0xbeef> lightdm config that relates to this, and the openbox config all seems to be unrelated as well
97 [00:52:48] <squarecircle> havin some trouble with cryptsetup, which asks for a passphrase, does not throw any errors, but does not map the unencrypted device to /dev/mapper/<devicename>
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101 [00:56:33] <mason> dead0xbeef: Openbox is crashing if it's going back to your display manager.
102 [00:56:35] <mtn> dead0xbeef: any chance this is a screensaver or power management problem?
103 [00:56:55] <mason> squarecircle: Which cryptsetup command?
104 [00:58:23] <squarecircle> mason: cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/md127 crypt
105 [00:58:27] <dead0xbeef> mason: if openbox crashes, would it be able to resume my session? when I log it, it still has everything open (it resets the resolution to something crap, but I think that's a vmware problem)
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107 [00:58:50] <squarecircle> I actually, am not sure, if my raid is properly recognized by now
108 [00:59:25] <mtn> dead0xbeef: sounds like a screensaver
109 [01:00:06] <aloo_shu> spinningCat: if you have a debian (live) install medium around, you could boot into a live session and have better repair options, like chrooting into the broken install, or using dpkg with the --root= parameter. I cannot help with the prob itself, though.
110 [01:01:05] <mason> squarecircle: you do that and it doesn't create /dev/mapper/crypt??
111 [01:01:40] <mason> squarecircle: remember that the last argument is just a name, so you won't be creating /dev/mapper/md127, you'll be creating /dev/mapper/crypt
112 [01:01:51] <squarecircle> mason: I know
113 [01:02:16] <dead0xbeef> mtn: yeah, screensaver/lock was my thought, but I have no idea how/where that's configured
114 [01:02:21] <mason> Seems odd that it wouldn't give an error on failure.
115 [01:02:57] <mason> dead0xbeef: That's... odd. You could have a session manager restarting things, or maybe it's not LightDM but a screen lock.
116 [01:03:03] <mtn> dead0xbeef: depends on what you installed. probably desktop or openbox settings
117 [01:03:09] <mason> dead0xbeef: Maybe ~/.xsession-errors will have some clues.
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119 [01:03:53] <squarecircle> mason: replaced-url
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122 [01:04:44] <mason> Ah, so it is failing then.
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124 [01:05:34] <mason> "device already exists or is busy" ?
125 [01:05:37] <mason> for error 5?
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127 [01:06:30] <mason> squarecircle: You can say "sudo dmsetup ls" to see if you've got it mapped already somehow.
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129 [01:06:46] <squarecircle> mason: I guess my raid is the cause
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131 [01:07:08] <mason> squarecircle: Does /proc/mdstat say it's unhealthy?
132 [01:07:31] <squarecircle> replaced-url
133 [01:07:38] <squarecircle> it says, its inactive
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139 [01:11:25] <dead0xbeef> mason, mtn: thanks for the pointers, looks like light-locker is probably the culprit
140 [01:11:39] <mtn> dead0xbeef: welcome
141 [01:12:15] <mason> dead0xbeef: Ah, then that's it. Good catch.
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156 [01:19:25] <Copenhagen_Bram> hello
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159 [01:20:36] * aloo_shu is falling over backwards
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165 [01:27:15] <r_rios> Hello, all. The libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0 and libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:i386 packages are necessary for Steam to work properly. Without them, a lot of steam games get black backgrounds and images, redering them unplayable. However, these packages are not steam dependencies. Where should I report this bug?
166 [01:27:24] <r_rios> Source: replaced-url
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182 [01:49:50] <usney3> what debian iso should I get for a orange pi pc plus?
183 [01:50:04] <usney3> arm 32bit
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186 [01:51:33] <RoyK> usney3: replaced-url
187 [01:51:48] <usney3> I want the net install
188 [01:52:26] <RoyK> there are a lot of orange ip's, so better follow the instructions on that page
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192 [01:53:27] <RoyK> usney3: just curious - what sort of opi and what are you going to use it for?
193 [01:54:13] <usney3> media center retro game center server..etc.
194 [01:54:50] <RoyK> for a media center, I'd use something that can run kodi with hwsupport
195 [01:55:02] <RoyK> such as a raspberrry pi
196 [01:55:12] <usney3> replaced-url
197 [01:55:15] <RoyK> AFAIK the orange i can't do tht
198 [01:55:59] <usney3> well it is half the price of a raspberry pi
199 [01:56:16] <RoyK> and you get about half of the raspberry pi
200 [01:56:17] <usney3> so I guess I can always take it back right?
201 [01:56:28] <usney3> how so?
202 [01:56:40] <usney3> it has 1gb of ram and is quad core also
203 [01:56:42] <RoyK> the raspberry pi zero doesn't cost a lot and can run things like openelec without issues
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205 [01:56:52] <RoyK> the gpu is rather bad on the opi
206 [01:57:01] <usney3> I see
207 [01:57:24] <usney3> the orange pi says that it can handle 1080p
208 [01:57:41] <RoyK> in theory, yes, but with what software?
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212 [02:02:07] <RoyK> kodi/openelec certainly doesn't support that hardware, at least didn't last I checked
213 [02:03:21] <usney3> hmm
214 [02:03:37] <usney3> RoyK which single board computers do you recommend?
215 [02:04:02] <RoyK> just get a raspberry pi, either a 3+ or just a zero w
216 [02:04:24] <RoyK> the zero w is tiny, costs very little, and will do for a small mediaentre
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218 [02:08:33] <usney3> well I found out which debian iso to download for the orange pi RoyK
219 [02:08:47] <usney3> armhf because the cpu is armv7
220 [02:09:09] <RoyK> go on - but it's quicker to get a pi zero than to try to get kodi or similar into the opi
221 [02:09:19] <RoyK> better use the opi for something else
222 [02:09:27] <usney3> like server?
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224 [02:09:39] <RoyK> or some sensor or some toy or whatever
225 [02:09:51] * RoyK has a few opi zeros for small projects
226 [02:10:28] <RoyK> hook a dht-22 and perhaps a pressure sensor to it and you have a tiny weather station
227 [02:10:45] <RoyK> add some LEDs and you have a light show
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229 [02:11:13] <usney3> I see
230 [02:11:18] <RoyK> the only thing stopping you is your fantasy (and perhaps money)
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232 [02:11:48] <usney3> I love saving money
233 [02:11:57] <usney3> well I'll look at the specs more closely
234 [02:12:03] <RoyK> components from ebay doesn't cost much
235 [02:12:18] <usney3> like the case?
236 [02:12:20] <RoyK> get a kit and start playing around with it
237 [02:12:36] * RoyK just prints those cases
238 [02:12:40] <RoyK> or chassises
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240 [02:13:19] <RoyK> I bought a cr-10s a month or two back :D
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242 [02:13:31] <RoyK> nice toy
243 [02:13:47] <usney3> cool
244 [02:14:38] <RoyK> took a wee while to getting used to, but as of now it's the most stable 3d printer I've worked with, and I've been using quite a few in my time
245 [02:15:06] <RoyK> and at that price and size…
246 [02:15:31] <RoyK> hilarious bargain
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252 [02:20:40] <usney3> RoyK just looked at the specs on wiki and looks like the new orange pi plus gpu is faster
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255 [02:21:13] <RoyK> usney3: doesn't matter if the software doesn't support its gpu
256 [02:21:35] <usney3> guess you're right about that
257 [02:21:42] <usney3> well I am just going to swing it
258 [02:21:48] <usney3> wing*
259 [02:22:01] <usney3> that's how it is with the cheapie sometimes you win a great deal
260 [02:22:04] <RoyK> thinking on running kodi on this?
261 [02:22:19] <usney3> maybe
262 [02:22:25] <usney3> I am not sure
263 [02:22:37] <cheapie> usney3: Yeah, I don't make a very good GPU though :P
264 [02:22:52] <michael2> is there a way I can start and use ssh-agent - without an X system?
265 [02:23:28] <usney3> never used the ssh-agent I thought it was a command option?
266 [02:23:54] <usney3> I mean command so should work without an x system afaik
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268 [02:24:30] <usney3> I use SSH but I haven't use the ssh-agent yet
269 [02:24:43] <michael2> well.... according to the man page - there are two ways to use it
270 [02:25:01] <usney3> let me check
271 [02:26:45] <usney3> are you trying to get rid of your x system?
272 [02:27:01] <michael2> no, i just havent yet installed it
273 [02:27:09] <usney3> oh okay
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275 [02:27:24] <usney3> just install debian netinstall without a gui
276 [02:27:40] <michael2> thats what I did
277 [02:27:56] <usney3> so what is not working?
278 [02:28:18] <michael2> ssh-agent
279 [02:28:42] <michael2> because the way debian sets it up - you have to run X
280 [02:28:44] <usney3> well I am not familiar with that wish I could help I would assume that it doesn't need the gui
281 [02:28:55] <michael2> before the agent is initialised
282 [02:29:18] <usney3> I use openssh just not ssh-agent
283 [02:29:32] <usney3> anyone have any ideas with michael2 problem?
284 [02:30:12] <michael2> ssh-agent is part of openssh
285 [02:30:26] <michael2> its in openssh-client package
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293 [02:43:29] <mason> michael2: What's the goal?
294 [02:44:18] <michael2> initialise ssh-agent - in a non X environment
295 [02:44:20] <mason> michael2: Something I typically do is run an agent setup script on login, whether it's .xsession or a shell.
296 [02:45:00] <michael2> so do you do something like `eval ssh-agent' ?
297 [02:45:30] <mason> michael2: Similar. I run it and save its output, and then I source the output from various places.
298 [02:45:34] <michael2> the problem with that - is other terminals won't get the SSH_AUTH_SOCK env var
299 [02:45:48] <mason> michael2: No, you capture ssh-agent's output when it starts, and it gives you that.
300 [02:45:52] <mason> Been doing it for many years.
301 [02:45:57] <michael2> yes! thats a nice idea :)
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303 [02:47:52] <michael2> where you save the output of ssh-agent to?
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305 [02:48:07] <michael2> /tmp/ssh-agent ?
306 [02:48:40] <mason> File in my home directory. Sometimes with the hostname as a component, in case my home directory is NFS-shared.
307 [02:49:01] <michael2> and then just have a test like [[ -f /tmp/ssh-agent ]]; then source /tmp/ssh-agent; fi ?
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309 [02:49:26] <mason> Yep.
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311 [02:49:42] <michael2> have you tried using gpg-agent for ssh-agent (via emulation) ?
312 [02:50:15] <mason> michael2: I'd like to. As I understand it, it's easier to connect to one where you don't know the socket off the bat. Just haven't taken the time.
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314 [02:52:14] <michael2> hmmm. I thought it was only gpg that could connect even when there is no GPG_AGENT_INFO var
315 [02:52:32] <michael2> pretty sure ssh-client needs SSH_AUTH_SOCK always
316 [02:53:18] <spacedust> is there a way to list installed packages but just the ones i actually installed not the dependencies also ?
317 [02:53:26] <spacedust> im looking for what did i apt install XYZ ?
318 [02:53:50] <michael2> spacedust: I think you want the "manually" installed packages
319 [02:54:25] <spacedust> michael2: yes thats the word i was looking for thanks
320 [02:54:51] <michael2> something like:
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322 [02:56:49] <michael2> aptitude search '?installed(.*)' -F '%c %p'
323 [02:57:22] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
324 [02:57:30] <michael2> but I dont know the aptitude flag for manually installed - if you find that out you can grep for that flag
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326 [02:58:12] <mason> michael2: gpgconf --list-dirs agent-ssh-socket seems to emit the socket on demand
327 [02:58:19] <mason> michael2: I think I'll probably give it a try this week.
328 [02:58:53] <michael2> spacedust: apt-mark showmanual
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331 [03:00:04] <michael2> mason: right but the client need to know to run tht command, right? I dont think ssh-client knows that - but newer gpg's (from about v2) know this
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333 [03:00:38] <mason> michael2: You don't need ssh to know it, just get it into your environment in .shrc or .xsession or similar.
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335 [03:01:38] <michael2> mason: that is right, but its more complicated - its honestly very difficult to setup - in my experience
336 [03:02:29] <mason> michael2: It'd be like what I'm doing, but you could use an existing agent more easily.
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338 [03:03:30] <michael2> mason: lol - thats what you _think_ will happen. I thought the same thing too - until I tried it :)
339 [03:03:47] <mason> michael2: Worst case, I keep doing what I've been doing since the late 90s.
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341 [03:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1117
342 [03:04:06] <michael2> mason: ok, you should know
343 [03:04:30] <michael2> gotchas to watch for
344 [03:05:24] <michael2> you need to set the enable-ssh-support in ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf
345 [03:05:45] <mason> The only real gotcha is if there's an agent already there when you come in, where you need to figure out if you need to add your key or not.
346 [03:06:18] <michael2> if you want the scripts in /etc/X11/Xsessiond/90gpg-agent. to detect that you want to use gpg-agent for ssh-agent
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348 [03:06:34] <spacedust> michael2: apt-mark showmanual works thanks
349 [03:07:04] <michael2> mason: also - I think `ssh-add <key>' is possibly broken
350 [03:07:05] <spacedust> michael2: but lists a lot of packages
351 [03:07:09] <michael2> spacedust: np
352 [03:07:25] <mason> michael2: After I try it I'll ping you with results.
353 [03:07:27] *** Quits: iamgr00t (~galaxy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
354 [03:07:58] <michael2> mason: cool :)
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357 [03:08:29] <michael2> spacedust: yeah I thnk the system has forcibly marked some packages "manual" - thats why the extras
358 [03:08:59] <Vall> How do I configure APT to exclude from updates something that I installed manually (and intend to keep manually)?
359 [03:09:19] <mason> Funny you should ask!
360 [03:09:53] <spacedust> michael2: its good
361 [03:09:53] <michael2> Vall: you can hold packages
362 [03:09:56] <Vall> In case it matters, I manually compiled and installed zfs-0.7.9, and don't want `apt-get upgrade` to replace iot with the repo version
363 [03:10:08] <Vall> iot -> it
364 [03:10:17] <mason> Vall: Observe the apt-mark conversation, and read the apt-mark(8) man page - read the "hold" entry.
365 [03:10:21] <spacedust> michael2: i actually run the command on a system which is kind of bloated :))
366 [03:10:29] <michael2> Vall: in this case apt/dpkg won't mangage that - I dont think
367 [03:10:33] <mason> Vall: You know ZOL 0.7.9 is in backports...?
368 [03:10:58] <spacedust> michael2: on the system i was looking for packages i installed its okay i can find my packages so thank you very much
369 [03:10:58] <Vall> mason: thanks, it's that I compiled mine with special options
370 [03:11:15] <Vall> mason, michael2: thanks
371 [03:11:15] <mason> It is a package of special conscience.
372 [03:11:22] * Vall waves
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374 [03:11:30] <mason> oh, right, it's not a package
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376 [03:12:31] <spacedust> if im running any debian based distro and enable debian unstable repository will my installed packages get updated to a newer version if its found in debian unstable ? or i speficially need to install from there or only packages installed from there would be upgraded ?
377 [03:13:11] <mason> !frankendebian
378 [03:13:11] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
379 [03:14:04] <michael2> !reinstall
380 [03:14:04] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, reinstall is aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>.
381 [03:17:47] <spacedust> well i would still like to know :)
382 [03:18:21] <mason> Tell us what happens!
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384 [03:18:39] <spacedust> im updating a debian 9 as we speak :) just was curious about how it would work
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390 [03:19:22] <spacedust> i mean i have package X version Y in debian-clone repo, + debian unstable package X with with version Y+1 @ apt upgrade i get Y+1 ?
391 [03:19:27] <michael2> spacedust: you can check your self with: `apt-cache policy <package>' but I think mason's point was - there are better ways
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393 [03:19:52] <spacedust> its just a test system, nothing special
394 [03:20:00] <spacedust> not my main os
395 [03:21:17] <michael2> !brideoffrankendebian
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440 [04:27:57] <ozzloy> anyone got a definitive guide to unfucking bluetooth on debian stretch?
441 [04:33:26] <spacedust> i cant find localepurge, i have a 600mb locale directory i need only 1 locale :)
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454 [04:48:06] <usney3> hey RoyK
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456 [04:48:23] <usney3> did you check out the new orange pi prime?
457 [04:48:38] <usney3> it looks more powerful than raspberry pi 3
458 [04:48:47] <usney3> 2gb of ram
459 [04:49:01] <usney3> builtin wifi and bluetooth
460 [04:50:07] <usney3> replaced-url
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467 [04:57:36] <usney3> replaced-url
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472 [05:11:58] <[Awaxx]> It's not opensource... you'll have full GPU support only using android...
473 [05:13:14] *** Joins: iflema (~ian@replaced-ip )
474 [05:13:49] <usney3> any of the orange pis? [Awaxx]
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476 [05:15:18] <[Awaxx]> Well it uses mali GPU I guess
477 [05:15:44] <[Awaxx]> You might find some working half working driver around
478 [05:16:03] <[Awaxx]> half working*
479 [05:16:26] *** Quits: MACscr|l_ (~MACscr|la@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
480 [05:16:27] <[Awaxx]> rofl wrote working 2 times
481 [05:16:31] <[Awaxx]> :Ð
482 [05:16:39] * [Awaxx] 's tired
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484 [05:18:41] <Gerowen> Yay my Debian based Rust server is working properly after migrating the system to an SSD, :-D
485 [05:19:18] <usney3> I recently migrated to an ssd
486 [05:19:22] <usney3> :)
487 [05:20:14] <Gerowen> All my systems run on SSD for the operating system now. My storage drives are still HDDs because you can't get a 12TB SSD for $500, but the system itself boots and shuts down insanely fast now with an SSD.
488 [05:20:45] <Gerowen> I shut it down via SSH earlier to install another hard drive that came in the mail and it was powered off before I could get into the closet where it's stored, :p
489 [05:20:49] * dvs steals the SSD
490 [05:21:27] <dead0xbeef> there's no going back after an SSD
491 [05:21:49] * squarecircle lets dvs trip, takes the SSD and gives it back to Gerowen
492 [05:22:05] <dvs> keener!
493 [05:23:18] * squarecircle agrees to Gerowen
494 [05:24:03] <squarecircle> I run my storage server with an 32GB cheap China SSD
495 [05:24:19] <dvs> Wow! That's small!
496 [05:25:16] <Gerowen> I guess as long as it's big enough to hold your operating system then it's big enough, keep everything else on HDDs.
497 [05:25:40] <squarecircle> I think I run Debian. I guess it works. Would I use Winbloats, yup that would suck
498 [05:26:15] * squarecircle does not agree with Gerowen anymore
499 [05:27:38] <squarecircle> I'd like to replace the 6x4TB scratch HDDs with SSDs, but that would sum up to ~2k4€
500 [05:28:29] <squarecircle> compared to ~600€ for HDDs ...
501 [05:28:54] <Gerowen> I did put Rust and Minecraft on the SSD; it's 500GB and I figure that would help speed up terrain generation when people explore new areas.
502 [05:29:04] <squarecircle> the cold storage is some 84x1TB in Fibrechannel shelves
503 [05:29:09] <squarecircle> ...
504 [05:30:13] <squarecircle> which, replaced with SSDs, would cost 16k€ ...
505 [05:30:20] <Gerowen> Yeah I have considered putting something else out in the storage shed as cold storage or an "off-site" backup, just something not in the house, not part of the main server.
506 [05:30:35] <dvs> yeah, 2400 would be a bargain!
507 [05:30:42] *** Quits: jehorn (~jehorn@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
508 [05:30:58] * squarecircle does really, really likes SSDs, but 18k4€ for all flash storage is way too expensive
509 [05:32:10] <squarecircle> maybe, if the QLC works out to be extremely cheap, I'd change one compute server to all flash
510 [05:34:10] <squarecircle> Gerowen: some ZFS with old 4TB disks?
511 [05:34:11] *** Parts: cluelessperson (~cluelessp@replaced-ip ) ()
512 [05:36:59] <Gerowen> Could definitely just stick a bunch of smaller drives into a larger logical volume.
513 [05:37:13] <Gerowen> I haven't looked, I wonder if I could get more storage for less if I got it out of smaller capacity drives.
514 [05:38:13] <squarecircle> theres an cost efficiency curve which led me to buy 4TB drives
515 [05:39:52] <Gerowen> Well I hate to run but I've gotta go to work in the morning, so I'm gonna lay down. If you or anybody else plays Rust and wants to check it out my server is up and running; listed under the "Community" tab as "Gerowen's Rust Server".
516 [05:40:20] <squarecircle> Gerowen: have a nice rest
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519 [05:43:27] <squarecircle> I'm off too, good night
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530 [05:52:58] <Neobenedict> hi i get this error trying to install wireguard
531 [05:52:59] <Neobenedict> Module build for the currently running kernel was skipped since the
532 [05:52:59] <Neobenedict> kernel source for this kernel does not seem to be installed.
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534 [05:53:25] <Neobenedict> linux-compiler-gcc-4.9-x86 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-amd64 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-common linux-headers-amd64 linux-kbuild-3.16 are all installed
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536 [05:54:46] <Neobenedict> i will try apt-get upgrade as my kernel is 3.16.0-5
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539 [05:59:04] <Neobenedict> okay had to manually install linux-headers-3.16.0-6-amd64 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-common
540 [05:59:08] <Neobenedict> no idea wtf this kernel is doing
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589 [07:06:22] <usney3> RoyK replaced-url
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598 [07:09:28] <Gigglebyte> Is there an address book in the back ports that allows imported data as well as exported? The only functional address book I found in the repos is DLume, but it won't allow you to import data; only export. KAddresBook doesn't work and has bugs.
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640 [08:05:01] <LevitusCommander> Hello, all! I had to override a package previously installed from the Debian repository with it's git version (that I built manually then) to circumvent a bug. Now, the dpkg database is out-of-sync and apt tries to actually downgrade this package (mailman). What to do?
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677 [08:48:01] <SirNeo> /clear
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710 [09:10:25] <diogenes_> Hello guys, several days a ago i asked about how to switch off the system bell and i got this
711 [09:10:28] <diogenes_> !bell
712 [09:10:28] <dpkg> To disable the bell: "xset b off" in X, "setterm -blength 0" in console. For some reason, bash beeps excessively when in emacs (default) mode; "set -o vi" puts it in vi editing mode, which doesn't beep on partial completions. In konsole, Settings->Bell->Visible Bell. See also <pcspkr>, <shell beep>, <metacity bell bug>.
713 [09:10:58] <diogenes_> and that worked but it won't survive the restart and i've found that via dconf-editor /org/cinnamon/settings-daemon/peripherals/keyboard/bell-mode change to off
714 [09:11:16] <diogenes_> will shut it off permanently, no need for any scripts
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716 [09:11:35] <diogenes_> so i thought you can include that into the bot !bell script
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746 [09:30:54] <wrksx_> mornin guys
747 [09:30:58] <darxmurf> yup
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798 [10:35:16] <wrksx_> I just used 'top' command from cygwin for the first time and it displays a process hierarchy in such a nice way... Any idea where is this comming from and if the top I'm used to (Debian) has that capability ?
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805 [10:41:46] <wrksx_> !bin
806 [10:41:46] <dpkg> [.bin] NOT a meaningful filename extension. "aptitude install file", then run file on your .bin and see what it is (or, read it with less). Or read the README file that should have come with it. If it looks like a shell script, try "sh myfile.bin". .bin is the extension used by some JDK installers (which are executable files) and is also a Macintosh archive format (MacBinary). If it is a CD image, ask me about <bin-cue>.
807 [10:41:50] <wrksx_> !paste
808 [10:41:50] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
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810 [10:42:30] <wrksx_> have a look replaced-url
811 [10:43:21] <jelly> wrksx_: htop can show a process tree
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815 [10:44:48] <wrksx_> jelly, ty didn't knew about htop
816 [10:44:52] <wrksx_> it quite nice
817 [10:45:29] <wrksx_> It displays an exclamation mark next to the uptime since it's so high =)
818 [10:45:42] <wrksx_> 1371 days(!)
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821 [10:46:04] <wrksx_> It seems really user friendy
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823 [10:46:48] <jelly> well a system with 1371 days old kernel might have security issues
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825 [10:46:50] <kopper> Your kernel must be ancient
826 [10:46:50] <wrksx_> and the treeview is beautifull
827 [10:46:59] <wrksx_> jelly, yeah
828 [10:47:34] <wrksx_> 3.2.0-4
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830 [10:47:54] <jelly> we'd have machines with 2000+ days uptime if power in our datacenters did not fail every 5-10 years or so :-)
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832 [10:48:25] <wrksx_> jelly, basically it's up since the first boot 4 years ago approx
833 [10:48:37] <jelly> wrksx_: if you have to maintain wheezy systems consider making your company pay for ELTS
834 [10:48:56] <wrksx_> hum, didn't know about that
835 [10:49:01] <wrksx_> Extended LTS ?
836 [10:49:39] <jelly> yes
837 [10:49:49] <jelly> !elts
838 [10:49:55] <wrksx_> VERY good to know
839 [10:50:13] <jelly> hm, let me write that up
840 [10:50:17] <wrksx_> =)
841 [10:51:21] <wrksx_> I'll upgrade soon, I need to change hardware anyway so that's the perfect moment to switch to the latest release
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859 [11:04:54] <jelly> !elts
860 [11:04:54] <dpkg> Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see replaced-url
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883 [11:25:22] <Mr-Potter> Hello everyone
884 [11:26:07] <Mr-Potter> I have a Lenovo Ideapad S10-2 which is quite old. I note that it is too old for the latest version of Ubuntu, which is Debian based. Will Stretch run on it?
885 [11:26:19] <Mr-Potter> Apparently no modern distro will run on it.
886 [11:27:32] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: How so?
887 [11:27:56] <pipedream> why not? because it is 32bit?
888 [11:27:59] <bites> try it with the i386 installer.
889 [11:28:01] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Debian support any x86 that is Pentium II or newer.
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892 [11:28:41] <Mr-Potter> petn-randall: Well to be honest the only distro I've tried is the latest version of Linux Mint (which is Ubuntu based), it has a glitchy log on screen and the update manager won't run.
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895 [11:30:07] <Mr-Potter> Thank you for your advice, I was unaware. Sorry for not checking!
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898 [11:31:37] <Mr-Potter> out of curiosity how do I see which packages are available on the 2nd and 3rd dvds?
899 [11:32:02] <Mr-Potter> Also does the OS come with a desktop eniveronment and if so which one?
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901 [11:34:37] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Debian comes with whatever one you pick. I recommend using the network installer, which will only download the packages that are needed. Note that the complete set for i386 is 9(!) DVDs.
902 [11:34:49] <petn-randall> Sorry, 14 DVDs.
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904 [11:34:59] <petn-randall> replaced-url
905 [11:35:32] <Mr-Potter> Got it thank you, as I'm installing on a netbook which requires a propertiary wifi driver I will stick to the 1st DVD only but not the netinstaller as it won't work.
906 [11:35:33] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: The most common DEs are Gnome, KDE, and Xfce. There are even more esoteric ones you can pick during install.
907 [11:35:48] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: I'd say it's the other way around.
908 [11:35:50] <petn-randall> !firmware installer
909 [11:35:51] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See replaced-url
910 [11:35:51] <Mr-Potter> petn-randall: I have the wifi drivers for ubuntu on a usb stick, will the same packages (.deb format) work on Debian?
911 [11:35:58] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Use this installer ^^^.
912 [11:36:12] <petn-randall> !firmware images
913 [11:36:12] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
914 [11:36:17] <petn-randall> Sorry, these here. ^^^
915 [11:36:45] <Mr-Potter> got it
916 [11:37:10] <Mr-Potter> petn-randall: Sorry but what is the other way around?
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918 [11:38:36] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: It will work with the firmware image, but not with the DVD image.
919 [11:38:44] <petn-randall> "It" being your network card.
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921 [11:39:09] <Mr-Potter> petn-randall: Why can't I simply install the drivers from the internet (downloaded using another PC)
922 [11:40:21] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Sure, it's just extra work.
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925 [11:40:44] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: If you want to provide it by hand, the !firmware installer factoid tells you how to do that.
926 [11:41:06] <Mr-Potter> can I do it using .deb packages which work on ubuntu?
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929 [11:41:52] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: debian will prompt you to select a desktop environment during installation, like this replaced-url
930 [11:42:51] <BCMM> you can also download install images that come with desktop environments, but it's probably best to just use one of the smaller installers, that will fetch your DE of choice from the internet during installation
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932 [11:43:33] <BCMM> (hang on, did they replace that screen with a boot option in debian 9?)
933 [11:45:24] <Mr-Potter> got it
934 [11:45:49] <Mr-Potter> If I select an environment I don't like can I change my mind and opt for another one instead?
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937 [11:48:57] <kirk781> Mr-Potter, of course. choosing from numerous desktop environments is one of the perks of linux
938 [11:49:06] <Mr-Potter> good to know!
939 [11:49:16] <Mr-Potter> funnily enough the ISO I downloaded was generic
940 [11:49:22] <Mr-Potter> Will it include all the common ones then?
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942 [11:49:29] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Most likely .deb files working on Ubuntu will not work on Debian.
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944 [11:49:37] <Mr-Potter> got it thank u
945 [11:50:19] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Ubuntu, just like Debian, has all the DEs in the same repo. Ubuntu just offers those installers which have a certain DE preselected in the installer.
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947 [11:51:01] <Mr-Potter> petn-randall: How odd!
948 [11:52:18] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Indeed. I guess it makes it a bit more user-friendly, at the cost of having several installers for essentially the same OS.
949 [11:52:36] <Mr-Potter> yes
950 [11:52:39] <petn-randall> Mr-Potter: Debian just saves a lot of bandwidth and storage costs by offering one installer that can do everything.
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952 [11:52:47] <Mr-Potter> yes
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955 [11:56:40] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: i don't know what exact iso you downloaded, but most likely it doesn't "include" a desktop environment. it will, however, automatically download any of them
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958 [11:56:51] <BCMM> (unless it was a really huge iso)
959 [11:56:53] <Mr-Potter> Oh no
960 [11:56:58] <Mr-Potter> It was a DVD size ISO
961 [11:57:26] <Mr-Potter> Which is a catch 22 because it won't work with my WIFI adapter. However I think I'll plug in using a LAN cable.
962 [11:57:38] <Mr-Potter> Out of curiosity, will I be able to install WIFI drivers over LAN?
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964 [11:58:26] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: yes
965 [11:58:38] <Mr-Potter> Good
966 [11:58:42] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: actually, in most cases drivers aren't the problem. *firmware* is.
967 [11:58:51] <Mr-Potter> really?
968 [11:59:18] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: debian only includes completely free, open-source, redistributable software by default
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970 [12:00:05] <Mr-Potter> got it
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972 [12:00:12] <Mr-Potter> But I can work around that right?
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974 [12:00:27] <BCMM> Mr-Potter: yes. after installation, you will probably need to enable non-free software, and then install firmware-linux-nonfree
975 [12:00:38] <Mr-Potter> got it thanks
976 [12:01:04] <BCMM> i don't know what wireless card you've got so i can't be completely sure this applies to your case, but 90% of the time, when a wireless card doesn't work at installation, that's why
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979 [12:02:29] <BCMM> basically there's firmware that isn't stored in the actual wifi device, but rather has to be "installed" by the OS every time the machine boot up. it exists as a binary file released by the device manufacturer, and the manufacturer has put a somewhat restrictive license on it
980 [12:03:08] <BCMM> and debian won't install stuff with that sort of licencing unless you tell it it's OK to do that
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1038 [13:14:51] <JPT> Is it expected behaviour for sysctl value "net.ipv6.conf.enp0s3.accept_ra" (previously set to 2) to be reset to 1 after ifup enp0s3?
1039 [13:16:31] <jelly> probably depends on what's in inet enp0s3 ... in /e/n/interfaces
1040 [13:16:54] <JPT> Well, nothing special. Both inet and inet6 are configured for dhcp
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1042 [13:17:13] <JPT> No custom scripts are involved
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1045 [13:19:20] <jelly> JPT: interfaces(5) says accept_ra is set to 1 by default for inet6 dhcp, so "yes"
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1047 [13:19:53] <jelly> "INET6 ADDRESS FAMILY" section, "The dhcp Method"
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1049 [13:21:06] <JPT> That's a bit unexpected, but i guess i'll have to accept it. Thank you for pointing it out. :)
1050 [13:21:45] <jelly> you can set it back to 2 there
1051 [13:21:55] <JPT> I just put my config into /etc/sysctl.d/ and was wondering why it got reset in unexpected moments. :|
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1084 [13:49:11] <wowaname> i used debootstrap to install debian in a chroot, so that i can run programs that require glibc or x86/multiarch without overwriting my main operating system. i mounted my host's /dev to the chroot and modified the audio, video, and input gids so that permissions would map correctly
1085 [13:49:37] <wowaname> the problem with this is, on an upgrade of udev, it shows the input group as a 'non-system group' and refuses to properly upgrade
1086 [13:50:00] <wowaname> although the new group id for input is still within the system group range
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1090 [13:51:59] <Brigo> wowaname, have you ever known about lxc or container in general?
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1093 [13:52:45] <wowaname> yes, i use lxc and kvm on my dedicated server
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1095 [13:53:00] <wowaname> i havent required that level of containerisation or sandboxing on my home desktop
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1097 [13:54:33] <wowaname> and i'd prefer not to have the configuration overhead
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1106 [14:03:21] <ksk> then you will have to build your own stuff. use helper scripts to setup these mounts and hook them into apt somehow?
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1108 [14:03:43] <ksk> like, unmount before an upgrade, mount again afterwards-
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1111 [14:04:34] <ksk> I dont know if that is an udev bug, you could look up what that errror actually means and check bugs.debian.org etc
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1114 [14:05:23] <ksk> but sure sounds like you want to use containerisation of some scale ;)
1115 [14:05:52] <ksk> isn't there something to spawn chroots in systemd already?
1116 [14:05:56] * ksk hides
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1124 [14:11:10] <wowaname> >systemd
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1126 [14:11:15] <wowaname> ksk: my host system is alpine linux
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1130 [14:13:02] <wowaname> to my knowledge udev isnt even running
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1132 [14:13:20] <wowaname> ok it looks like i can safely uninstall udev
1133 [14:13:24] <wowaname> never mind then
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1137 [14:14:23] <ksk> is #debian here :>
1138 [14:14:42] <ksk> and you said something about udev errors
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1142 [14:15:04] <wowaname> yes, smartassery is appreciated
1143 [14:15:14] <wowaname> not even bothering to idle
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1182 [14:43:15] <debouncer> noob here, I don't if there is a dev-channel but I want to help to the project in documentations and translations. Where can I find the list of todo tasks?
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1187 [14:44:40] <greycat> Most documentation and translation is done upstream, really.
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1190 [14:48:28] <debouncer> greycat, what about offical website development?
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1194 [14:50:41] <n4dir> there is a mailing list for package maintainers to check for proper english. might be a start
1195 [14:50:41] <nicofrand> Hi
1196 [14:51:13] <jelly> !l10n
1197 [14:51:13] <dpkg> l10n is, like, an abbreviation for localization, which is a long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "L, then 10 more letters, then N", get it? replaced-url
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1199 [14:51:40] <greycat> Ah. I tried i18n but not l10n.
1200 [14:51:41] <jelly> pick your locale/language, debouncer
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1203 [14:52:05] <jelly> g5t: so sad!
1204 [14:52:06] <nicofrand> When trying to install something through apt the interactive thingy fails and aborts automatically: "Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Abort.". I can always pass "-y" but I'd like to fix it. I have no idea where to look for… I saw something on stackoverflow regarding stdin but no tip on what to do… Could someone help please ?
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1206 [14:52:21] <greycat> the I18n wiki page is ... incredibly terse
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1208 [14:52:56] <jelly> nicofrand: that stuff apt says before that line is kind of important.
1209 [14:53:02] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
1210 [14:53:02] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1211 [14:53:04] <jelly> nicofrand: ^
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1215 [14:53:55] <nicofrand> jelly the issue is that the "Abort" is done before I have a chance to type either "Y" or "N" actually
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1217 [14:54:01] <nicofrand> but I can paste the whole result
1218 [14:54:29] <nicofrand> replaced-url
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1221 [14:57:10] <greycat> nicofrand: what are you NOT telling us?
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1224 [14:57:54] <greycat> "oh yeah, I forgot to say that this is a docker inside a virtual machine and I'm doing it using ansible over ssh from a chef puppet script and RFC 1149 and ..."
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1226 [14:58:36] <nicofrand> hmm, not sure what I could say. I am connecting to my server through SSH. I tried rebooting the server
1227 [14:58:50] <nicofrand> not in docker, no ansible, no puppet, not in a script
1228 [14:59:03] <greycat> This is an *interactive* ssh session, right? You type "ssh root@server" and you get an interactive shell in a terminal, and you are typing commands into this terminal?
1229 [14:59:25] <nicofrand> yes it is greycat
1230 [14:59:58] <nicofrand> `[[ $- == *i* ]] && echo 'Interactive' || echo 'Not interactive'` displays "Interactive"
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1235 [15:03:10] <greycat> I can duplicate your result if I run "sudo apt-get install mc </dev/null"
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1237 [15:03:41] <greycat> Which makes me suspect that for *some* reason, your apt command's stdin is redirected from /dev/null, or closed, or is being piped from a thing that is generating no output, etc.
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1242 [15:05:27] <ayekat> `alias apt-get`, `which apt-get`, ...
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1244 [15:05:42] <nicofrand> yes I read that but I have no idea how to check why it's redirected and how to fix it
1245 [15:05:54] <greycat> "type apt-get" in bash
1246 [15:05:57] <nicofrand> ayekat /usr/bin/apt
1247 [15:06:00] <greycat> which(1) is useless
1248 [15:06:13] <nicofrand> apt is hashed (/usr/bin/apt)
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1251 [15:07:19] <ayekat> uh... wait - so apt-get is an alias for apt?
1252 [15:07:30] <greycat> no
1253 [15:07:37] <greycat> apt-get and apt are separate commands
1254 [15:07:50] <greycat> nicofrand: what does "ls -l /dev/fd/0" show?
1255 [15:07:54] <ayekat> greycat: yes, I know - but nicofrand wrote `/usr/bin/apt` there
1256 [15:08:18] <greycat> he typed "type apt" instead of "type apt-get"
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1258 [15:08:43] <nicofrand> lrwx------ 1 root root 64 Aug 22 15:08 /dev/fd/0 -> /dev/pts/0
1259 [15:08:55] <nicofrand> I use apt indeed. But I have the same issue with apt-get
1260 [15:09:05] <greycat> nicofrand: your pastebin showed apt-get
1261 [15:09:08] <nicofrand> apt-get is hashed (/usr/bin/apt-get)
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1263 [15:09:45] <nicofrand> bash: alias: apt-get: not found & same for 'apt'
1264 [15:09:45] <nicofrand>
1265 [15:09:49] <greycat> How about if you exit from this session, and ssh back in?
1266 [15:10:21] <greycat> (Yeah, we're down to "turn it off and on" already.)
1267 [15:10:24] <nicofrand> …
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1269 [15:10:26] <nicofrand> it works
1270 [15:10:33] <nicofrand> but I rebooted the server meanwhile
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1272 [15:10:39] <nicofrand> and the same issue on reboot
1273 [15:10:51] <nicofrand> aren't the sessions cleaned on reboot?
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1278 [15:11:22] <greycat> I'm running out of ideas here. You've got some kind of trickery going on but I have no idea what it is.
1279 [15:11:43] <nicofrand> well, as long as it works for now 🤷♂️
1280 [15:11:58] <nicofrand> thank you very much for the help
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1288 [15:19:10] <BCMM> what are the downsides of putting /tmp/ on a tmpfs (other than memory usage obviously)
1289 [15:19:59] <babilen> Things might get done faster and you have less time to chill
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1292 [15:20:39] <greycat> Might not be able to store a multi-gigabyte temp file in memory.
1293 [15:21:06] <greycat> (Do current web browsers still download files into /tmp and then move them into $HOME?)
1294 [15:21:23] <BCMM> greycat: iirc, firefox does that if you choose "open"
1295 [15:21:24] <greycat> (Because that was *so* freakin' stupid and annoying....)
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1297 [15:21:57] <BCMM> if you choose "save", it downloads to a .part file in the directory you're downloading it to
1298 [15:22:05] <BCMM> and i think renames it when finished
1299 [15:22:12] <greycat> That's what it should always be doing.
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1301 [15:22:34] <BCMM> well, if you just click "open" rather than "save", it's understood that you don't want the file to persist
1302 [15:23:13] <BCMM> and i personally never do that with anything really large because i'd had to have to redownload it if accidentally close it or whatever
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1305 [15:23:25] <BCMM> maybe this would be a problem if i had faster internet
1306 [15:24:04] <BCMM> is that the only reason it's not tmpfs by default? or are there other objections?
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1309 [15:24:21] <greycat> I'd imagine the "machine with limited memory" thing is the main reason.
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1312 [15:26:17] <jasabella> BCMM… privacy?
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1325 [15:33:47] <wrksx_> So I got interested in the IO part of vmstat basic report
1326 [15:33:58] <wrksx_> it's reporting block per second
1327 [15:34:09] <greycat> there's a separate iostat command
1328 [15:34:24] <wrksx_> hum that's right I heard of
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1330 [15:34:28] <wrksx_> yesterday =)
1331 [15:34:34] <greycat> Yeah, jelly mentioned it.
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1333 [15:34:49] <wrksx_> but as of right now, I'll just use vmstat reports, if they make sense
1334 [15:34:57] <wrksx_> and they seem to make perfect sense
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1337 [15:36:02] <wrksx_> But the block/sec is kinda confusing and I wanted to convert that to bytes
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1339 [15:36:16] <wrksx_> But then I thought, maybe a block doesn't really translate to bytes
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1342 [15:36:51] <wrksx_> so here I am, asking if that make sense
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1344 [15:37:18] <greycat> When in doubt, block either means 512 bytes, or something hardware-specific. Usually the former when it comes to old commands like du and vmstat.
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1347 [15:38:01] <wrksx_> greycat, thx for that
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1349 [15:38:56] <jelly> wrksx_: don't trust some random greycat on irc. Read the fine vmstat man page.
1350 [15:38:58] <wrksx_> greycat, if vm stat is run every second, and on the 1st sec it says 20 blocks, and the 2nd 10 blocks, does that mean 30 blocks are beein written or is it like the total amount of work in a queue ?
1351 [15:39:15] <greycat> The first LINE of output from vmstat is special. See the man page.
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1353 [15:39:52] <jelly> it will tell you exactly how many bytes a "block" means in vmstat (and linux kernel, mostly) context
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1355 [15:40:09] <hans_> what is this? deb replaced-url
1356 [15:40:20] <jelly> hans_: something very, very, very old
1357 [15:40:23] <greycat> Hidesouly ancient.
1358 [15:40:28] <jelly> 15+ years
1359 [15:40:30] <greycat> Bah, typing hard.
1360 [15:40:57] <jelly> !non-us
1361 [15:40:57] <dpkg> Non-US is where we placed software previously unable to hosted within the USA. Changes in legislation mean that post-<Woody>, there is no non-US, so you don't need it for Sarge, Etch, Lenny, Squeeze, Wheezy or later. Ask me about <crypto> and <crypto in main>. Old non-US packages (for slink, potato, woody) are at archive.debian.org. replaced-url
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1363 [15:41:15] <greycat> hans_: either this machine is so old that you will not be able to upgrade it, or you're looking at documentation that is so old that you should not read it.
1364 [15:41:26] <jelly> it's so old it has a correct factoid
1365 [15:41:36] <wrksx_> lol
1366 [15:42:20] <wrksx_> Damn block size info was in the footnote of the manpage, I didn't make it that far
1367 [15:42:25] <wrksx_> it says 1024 bytes
1368 [15:42:29] <jelly> bingo
1369 [15:42:41] <mason> Iä! Iä! debian-non-US fthaghn!
1370 [15:42:52] <jelly> (same value is used for df and iostat output on Linux by default)
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1372 [15:43:06] <wrksx_> fine
1373 [15:43:42] <jelly> more sane OSes will show you actual blocks with similarly-named commands
1374 [15:43:43] <mason> s/fthaghn/fhtagn/
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1376 [15:44:10] <wrksx_> I'm goin to add IO to my chart report straight away
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1378 [15:44:14] <wrksx_> ty guys
1379 [15:44:16] <jelly> with amusing results for devices with variable block size, like tapes
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1381 [15:44:38] <wrksx_> I hope my HDD has constant block size =)
1382 [15:44:42] <jelly> iostat on Linux however does not show tapes AT ALL, so they sure dodged that bullet
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1385 [15:45:35] <jelly> (as a consequence, it's (near?) impossible to know how much IO passes to and from your tape drives on Linux)
1386 [15:45:46] <greycat> I always get the feeling that people report "blocks" so that they don't actually have to figure out what the units mean. They can just be lazy and grab some kind of number from some kind of interface and dump it on the screen and there you are.
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1388 [15:46:45] <jelly> and when your HDD and SSD firmware lies about "block" being 512B when it's anything from 4KiB to 4MiB
1389 [15:46:47] <wrksx_> greycat, I'm not that kind of person
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1391 [15:47:17] <wrksx_> jelly, should I be woried about that
1392 [15:47:18] <wrksx_> ?
1393 [15:48:10] <jelly> no
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1395 [15:49:05] <jelly> wrksx_: the only thing to remember about my rant is "linux tools will probably show block as 1024B, but do not assume that's true for other unixes"
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1399 [15:49:51] <BCMM> jasabella: what's the privacy issue with tmpfs? wouldn't it be the other way around?
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1401 [15:50:07] <wrksx_> jelly, k
1402 [15:50:23] <jelly> BCMM: contents of tmpfs can end up written on disk!!!!1!one
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1404 [15:50:54] <greycat> contents of non-tmpfs /tmp can also end up written on disk
1405 [15:50:59] <BCMM> also, what's the correct way to mount /tmp/ on a tmpfs these days?
1406 [15:51:05] <jasabella> BCMM… i probably misread what you said, but i was thinking everybody can read/write to tmpfs :)
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1408 [15:51:32] <jelly> greycat: oh nose
1409 [15:51:40] <BCMM> isn't it a proper filesystem with support for unix permission, just like the rootfs /tmp would be on otherwise?
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1411 [15:51:53] <jelly> it is
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1413 [15:52:44] <jelly> most of that is in VFS layer. tmpfs and ramfs just don't have a permanent disk-backend for that data and metadata
1414 [15:52:46] <BCMM> as i understand it, /etc/default/tmpfs is ignored on systemd systems. what's the appropriate replacement, though?
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1416 [15:53:00] <jelly> BCMM: let us know if you find out
1417 [15:53:14] <jelly> I still keep a fstab entry for /tmp
1418 [15:53:37] <jelly> that's very likely the wrong solution
1419 [15:53:46] <BCMM> jelly: yeah, that's the impression i've got...
1420 [15:53:54] <BCMM> jelly: both that that's what people do, and that it's somehow wrong
1421 [15:54:05] <BCMM> possibly because of stuff getting written to /tmp too early?
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1423 [15:54:36] <jelly> maybe ask the upstream channel #systemd and see if they know
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1425 [15:55:41] <BCMM> am i wrong in thinking that they'll just be annoyed i'm not using a redhat distro? (because that's how systemd itself makes me feel sometimes)
1426 [15:56:02] <BCMM> systemctl enable tmp.mount seems to be the correct answer, but a bunch of people claim it doesn't actually work. i guess i should test it in case that's fixed
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1428 [15:56:31] * jelly asked
1429 [15:56:54] <BCMM> oh "Failed to enable unit: Unit file tmp.mount does not exist"
1430 [15:57:17] <mason> BCMM: Can you summarize your goal?
1431 [15:57:33] <BCMM> mason: putting /tmp/ on a tmpfs
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1433 [15:58:10] <mason> BCMM: Ah. FWIW, it's worth looking at the PrivateTmp option as well. Drops all your mounts into their own namespace, including a distinct per-process /tmp and /var/tmp.
1434 [15:58:23] <BCMM> what's the point in that?
1435 [15:58:44] <mason> BCMM: Saves lazy programmers from having to understand "mktemp" is what I take from it.
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1437 [15:59:02] <BCMM> i mean, isn't the point of /tmp/ communication between processes?
1438 [15:59:07] <greycat> absolutely not
1439 [15:59:11] <mason> But it's theoretically more obscure/secure since no one else can see what temp files you're creating.
1440 [15:59:25] <BCMM> greycat: what's the correct way for a browser to implement an "open in external pdf reader" feature?
1441 [15:59:34] <mason> And yeah, /tmp is for per-process, sometimes per-user scratch files.
1442 [15:59:57] <mason> ssh abuses it a bit with its sockets living there.
1443 [16:00:06] <greycat> BCMM: good question, definitely out of scope for #debian. You'll probably ask 5 programmers and get 11 different answers.
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1445 [16:00:41] <mason> BCMM: dbus! fork and exec! just exec!
1446 [16:00:44] <BCMM> well, one can argue about the correct use of it, but the fact remains that it's very much within conventional use of it
1447 [16:01:09] <greycat> "conventional" doesn't score a lot of points when it comes to temp files
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1449 [16:01:48] <BCMM> well i suppose my ultimate goal is to not pointlessly write temporary audio files to my ssd while encoding this music, and i could just manually configure a different temporary directory for this single purpose instead of addressing the whole of /tmp/
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1451 [16:02:13] <BCMM> which brings me to, what should i use if i explicitly want to store a temporary file in RAM? (and /tmp/ is not in ram)
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1453 [16:02:55] <BCMM> is it wrong to just use /dev/shm for that?
1454 [16:02:59] <greycat> If an fstab entry for /tmp => tmpfs works for you, then that sounds like a good enough answer.
1455 [16:04:26] <mason> BCMM: If it has to stay in RAM, why have it touch a file at all?
1456 [16:04:29] <BCMM> greycat: well that's the fallback solution certainly. but debian used to do it earlier than fstab, and systemd appears to be configured to do the same on other distros. i don't know what the reasoning behind that is, but i assume there is one
1457 [16:04:40] <BCMM> mason: i'm configuring a program, not writing it...
1458 [16:04:44] <mason> ah
1459 [16:04:52] <wrksx_> When VM stat reports 80 MB/s of IO writing to disk, it's actually writing to RAM cache?
1460 [16:05:21] <apollo13> depends
1461 [16:05:31] <apollo13> it could be writing directly to
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1466 [16:07:39] <wrksx_> seems really high to me but I don't know typical performance of hdds
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1470 [16:08:43] <jelly> so.
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1472 [16:08:58] <greycat> I would not expect vmstat to report raw hardware I/O values, in general. It's designed to report memory usage, not disk usage.
1473 [16:09:48] <wrksx_> aright
1474 [16:09:54] <jelly> this is what /var/lib/dpkg/info/systemd.postinst does: it creates a unit definition in /etc/systemd but ONLY if RAMTMP is enabled in old, legacy /etc/default/rcS file. So /etc/default/rcS is used one last time.
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1476 [16:10:29] <jelly> so /etc/default/rcS is a boot-time config for sysvinit, but an install-time config for systemd
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1478 [16:10:51] <jelly> which is probably better than not trying to migrate at all
1479 [16:11:01] <greycat> Looks like it performs one-time migrations on several of the values form rcS.
1480 [16:11:30] <wrksx_> Regarding CPU data reported by VM stat,
1481 [16:11:40] <wrksx_> (sorry for the lineends)
1482 [16:11:49] <greycat> And ... there's the tmp.mount unit file, in /usr/share/systemd, waiting for you to copy it to /etc/systemd/system/ yourself, I guess.
1483 [16:12:01] <wrksx_> it says it's "time spent". But what unit of time is that ?
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1486 [16:12:31] <mason> or systemctl edit tmp.mount maybe?
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1488 [16:12:39] <jelly> wrksx_: percentage of total cpu time across all cores
1489 [16:12:41] <RoyK> wrksx_: try using sysstat and perhaps munin - preferably both - they'll show you good and understandable data
1490 [16:12:47] <greycat> mason: you have to copy it into a place where systemctl can see it, first
1491 [16:13:02] <mason> greycat: ah, ah, kk
1492 [16:13:19] <RoyK> sysstat is a commandline tool, but there are fine tools for graphing the data
1493 [16:13:40] <jelly> wrksx_: user + system + idle + iowait cannot exceed 100
1494 [16:13:58] <jelly> I have no idea what's the "st: Time stolen from a virtual machine. Prior to Linux 2.6.11, unknown." column
1495 [16:14:01] <wrksx_> hum
1496 [16:14:33] <RoyK> jelly: "steal" is the amount of time the host "steals" from the vm if the host is under load and can't give the vm all the cpu it wants
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1499 [16:15:10] <jelly> but VM is running under host anyway so it ought to be accounted anyway?
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1501 [16:15:50] <jelly> and how the hell does it deal with different, third party hypervisor crap that is not kvm
1502 [16:16:21] <wrksx_> r b swpd free buff cache si so bi bo in cs us sy id wa
1503 [16:16:21] <wrksx_> 1 0 402112 489880 214564 61125364 0 0 40064 0 1922 3222 11 0 89 1741638803
1504 [16:16:28] <jelly> ignore the first line
1505 [16:16:31] <RoyK> jelly: from sar(1): %steal: Percentage of time spent in involuntary wait by the virtual CPU or CPUs while the hypervisor was servicing another virtual processor.
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1507 [16:16:32] <wrksx_> Found this line in my log
1508 [16:16:46] <jelly> wrksx_: it's crap
1509 [16:16:50] <wrksx_> with a wait percentage of 1741638803
1510 [16:16:51] <jelly> that happens.
1511 [16:16:57] <wrksx_> ha right
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1513 [16:17:23] <RoyK> wrksx_: just install sysstat and munin and wait a while for them to build up some statistics
1514 [16:17:35] <jelly> reading from /proc is not always correct
1515 [16:17:43] <wrksx_> RoyK, ty I'll look into it
1516 [16:18:00] <jelly> sometimes the emulated file contents change under userspace' feet
1517 [16:18:02] <wrksx_> RoyK, I already had 24 hours of vmstat data I wanted to check
1518 [16:18:04] <RoyK> wrksx_: interactive stuff like vmstat or iostat are nice, but usually you want statistics over time
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1520 [16:18:21] <wrksx_> RoyK, exactly
1521 [16:18:41] <RoyK> installing those two is an apt install away
1522 [16:18:43] <jelly> wrksx_: honestly I've done better adhoc stats with vmstat/iostat and awk than with sar
1523 [16:18:54] <jelly> ymmv
1524 [16:18:57] <wrksx_> sar ,
1525 [16:18:59] <wrksx_> ,
1526 [16:19:00] <wrksx_> ?
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1528 [16:19:11] <bites> is there a nagios plugin packaged for debian that can check the psu status?
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1531 [16:19:20] <RoyK> jelly: sar/sysstat works well - I've used it for about two decades
1532 [16:19:39] <jelly> wrksx_: sar is the thing from sysstat that runs forever and keeps statistics in a well-known format
1533 [16:19:40] <RoyK> bites: quite possibly, depending on your hardware
1534 [16:19:48] <wrksx_> alright
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1538 [16:20:24] <RoyK> jelly: and sar/sysstat doesn't produce worse dat than vmstat/iostat - they read from the same source
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1574 [16:39:22] <telmich> good evening
1575 [16:39:33] <telmich> is there vxlan support planned for interfaces?
1576 [16:39:55] <telmich> I can set them up manually, but I'd like to setup some vxlan devices on bootup with debian
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1578 [16:43:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
1579 [16:43:28] *** eir sets mode: -bbbo suck_me!*@*$arguments *!*@159.203.16.172$##arguments $a:suck_me$ arguments eir
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1584 [16:47:40] <mason> That person has had time to learn their lesson.
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1586 [16:49:23] <hans_> where is the actual list of boot options for grub? the update-grub generates
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1588 [16:49:48] <greycat> It generates the file /boot/grub/grub.cfg
1589 [16:50:00] <hans_> thanks
1590 [16:50:02] <greycat> It uses the templates/scripts in /etc/grub.d/ to do so.
1591 [16:50:40] <greycat> (and the options in /etc/default/grub like it says in the comment)
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1595 [16:53:01] <mvaenskae> where can one find documentation on the internals of the debian installer? i for one tried to install debian concurrently with a gentoo install (using lvm on luks) but had to call some internal magic commands from the command line to have access to lvm and luks (seems to have been loaded and extracted from some archive into ramdisk)
1596 [16:53:14] <greycat> !debootstrap
1597 [16:53:14] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. replaced-url
1598 [16:54:15] <mvaenskae> i recall using the official installer for that task and just skipped the ones i did manually
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1600 [16:54:21] <optraz> how to upgrade iceweasel/firefox ? currently still using versoin 52.9.0
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1602 [16:54:39] <mvaenskae> i think something with `anna` was in the name of the command (been some time)
1603 [16:54:46] <greycat> optraz: That is the current firefox-esr in stretch.
1604 [16:55:31] <jelly> optraz: 60esr will probably happen soon
1605 [16:55:48] <jelly> and break 70% of old extensions
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1607 [16:56:11] <optraz> hmm
1608 [16:56:20] <optraz> because some site complaint version 52 too old
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1611 [16:56:44] <greycat> I find the ctrl-w key to be effective for those cases.
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1614 [16:57:24] <petn-randall> optraz: Sounds like the site is broken and needs fixing. Or avoiding.
1615 [16:57:30] <optraz> lol
1616 [16:57:31] <optraz> banking site
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1618 [16:58:00] <greycat> so, you're paying them for this?
1619 [16:58:13] <optraz> nope
1620 [16:58:24] <greycat> it's someone else's bank account?
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1622 [16:58:41] <optraz> heh nope
1623 [16:58:53] <optraz> sid has version 61
1624 [16:58:55] <petn-randall> optraz: So you are paying them for this.
1625 [16:58:58] <optraz> replaced-url
1626 [16:59:08] <greycat> Then you gave them your money and you're allowing them to hold on to it and earn interest off of it, and for this service, they repay you with a broken web site that you can't use.
1627 [16:59:14] <petn-randall> optraz: That's irrelevant though, since sid and stable are two different suites.
1628 [16:59:33] <optraz> ok
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1630 [16:59:47] <optraz> u can try here
1631 [16:59:49] <optraz> replaced-url
1632 [16:59:55] <optraz> • Mozilla Firefox Version 54 and above
1633 [16:59:56] <optraz> lol
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1636 [17:00:22] <greycat> It appears to be working in google-chrome, but of course I have no login for it.
1637 [17:00:28] <optraz> when will firefox 61 get into testing or stretch release?
1638 [17:00:40] <optraz> greycat: yes, but i love firefox :)
1639 [17:00:42] <greycat> We don't care about testing here.
1640 [17:01:01] <mvaenskae> greycat: ah, found the command again, anna-install; what does this command relate to in the debian-installer context and how do i know what arguments it takes?
1641 [17:01:08] <greycat> It will never be in stretch, because it's not an ESR release. Firefox-ESR 60 will be in stretch probably in a few weeks.
1642 [17:01:20] <optraz> ohh
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1645 [17:01:24] <optraz> coooool
1646 [17:01:31] <petn-randall> optraz: Some time this month Firefox ESR 52 will reach end of life, and will be replaced by ESR 60.
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1648 [17:01:34] <optraz> few weeks as in 2009 perhaps :D
1649 [17:01:46] <optraz> aha ok!
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1651 [17:01:47] <greycat> No, as in early September 2018.
1652 [17:01:54] <optraz> good to know
1653 [17:01:55] <optraz> thank you
1654 [17:01:58] <optraz> u r awesome!
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1656 [17:02:42] <optraz> where u see the schedule for firefox esr 60 ?
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1661 [17:04:27] <optraz> gtg, thanks again :)
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1663 [17:04:47] <hans_> does FormData work in ESR 52?
1664 [17:05:24] <hans_> does this work? `fd=new FormData();`
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1667 [17:06:24] <greycat> replaced-url
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1670 [17:08:16] <Delta706> Is there a way to configure debian such that a crash produces a core file whose name includes the process number of the terminated process?
1671 [17:08:25] <greycat> there's a pretty picture version on replaced-url
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1673 [17:08:45] <greycat> "September 5 2018" is where ESR 52.x dies.
1674 [17:09:15] <mvaenskae> how long are ESRs supported?
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1676 [17:09:58] <greycat> according to the same pretty picture, ESR 60 dies on "October 23 2019"
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1679 [17:10:37] <mvaenskae> so a little over... 1.5 years?
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1701 [17:30:26] <indigoblu> anybody have an example of how to disable a postinstall using pybuild? Im trying to backport a package that has some python3 code in in and the pycompile postinstall falls flat on its face.
1702 [17:31:37] <jelly> mvaenskae: that's a lot better than the 10 months of life they initially gave to each LTS release
1703 [17:31:50] <jelly> er. ESR release.
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1707 [17:32:44] <themill> indigoblu: pycompile shouldn't be seeing python3 code; which package is this ooi?
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1711 [17:33:37] <indigoblu> themill: python-engineio attemping to backport to stretch.
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1714 [17:36:05] <themill> indigoblu: that backports and installs just fine. Are you making changes to the packaging too?
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1718 [17:39:07] <indigoblu> themill: upstream (debian) only has a dist for python3. This is a personal backport for python2 usage.
1719 [17:40:12] <greycat> so it's NOT a backport, then?
1720 [17:40:51] <indigoblu> i guess not :-) sorry, learning terminology.
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1722 [17:41:30] <greycat> A backport is when you take the deb-src (Debian source package) from unstable or testing and build it on stable using stable's libs and so on.
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1724 [17:41:54] <themill> indigoblu: Ahh, I'd say that's not going to work. There looks to be a lot of python3 code in there
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1727 [17:42:58] <themill> (even if it does use six)
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1729 [17:44:07] <themill> indigoblu: there seem to be some guards in the package that change what gets imported depending on the version. You might get a working package if you make sure the py3-only files don't land in the py2 package.
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1731 [17:44:49] <indigoblu> themill: understood. this is a wierd package and portions are needed for python-socketio. Unit tests do pass on python2.
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1733 [17:46:02] <indigoblu> themill: just new to Debian packaging and trying to modify stock debhelper postinst behavior.
1734 [17:46:08] <themill> you could delete the py3-only files out of debian/tmp/python-engineio/usr/… from within d/rules.
1735 [17:46:24] <themill> nope, you'll need to fix the package contents, not the postinst
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1737 [17:48:51] <themill> err debian/python-engineio/usr/…
1738 [17:48:59] <indigoblu> themill: okay, thanks. Ill try that.
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1744 [17:51:21] <themill> indigoblu: brutalising package contents for fun and for profit: replaced-url
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1751 [17:59:22] <BCMM> i'm looking for how to enable /tmp/ on tmpfs, and found /usr/share/systemd/tmp.mount. can anybody explain what /usr/share/systemd/ is for? it doesn't appear that systemd actually looks for unit files in that directory.
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1756 [18:00:29] <greycat> Correct. It's just a place where stuff from upstream is stashed.
1757 [18:00:47] <greycat> Do what the systemd.postinst does -- copy it out of there into /etc/systemd/system/ and then enable it.
1758 [18:00:57] <BCMM> greycat: thanks
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1761 [18:01:47] <BCMM> greycat: what do you mean about postinst? does the systemd package put all built-in unit files in to /usr/share and then move a set of pre-defined defaults to /etc?
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1763 [18:02:26] <greycat> Didn't you see jelly's comment earlier? The systemd.postinst script looks to see if /tmp-on-tmpfs was enabled in the old legacy rcS file, and if so, it copies the unit into /etc/systemd/system/ and then enables it.
1764 [18:02:41] <greycat> If not, you are just left with the unit sitting in this directory that nobody looks in.
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1766 [18:03:22] <greycat> I don't know why it isn't simply installed in /lib/systemd/system/ and then conditionally enabled or disabled. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time.
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1778 [18:08:42] <BCMM> greycat: oh thanks, no i didn't see that
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1789 [18:17:11] <simbalion> I need to get php 5.5 installed on Debian Stretch, how can I do that?
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1791 [18:18:23] <JustASlacker> use docker ^_^
1792 [18:18:55] <simbalion> nvm got it working
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1795 [18:19:59] <jelly> :-D
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1797 [18:20:04] <jelly> !win simbalion
1798 [18:20:04] <dpkg> Congratulations, simbalion! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120!
1799 [18:20:53] <annadane> (less or more than a slackware installation?)
1800 [18:21:04] *** beaver_ is now known as beaver
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1802 [18:21:37] <JustASlacker> nah, slackware comes on a dual-side dvd these days ^_^
1803 [18:21:46] <annadane> *these* days
1804 [18:22:08] <JustASlacker> so, roughly 8000 floppies
1805 [18:22:54] <jehorn> Slackware was one of the first distros I tried, back in 1996 lol.
1806 [18:22:56] <annadane> and it's recommended to install everything so it's not like debian where you can just put in DVD 1 of 14
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1817 [18:33:07] <bertbob> slackware didn't really work well, either. when I switched to buzz and it all just worked I was so happy
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1819 [18:33:14] <thyr15t0r> good morning
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1823 [18:34:07] <thyr15t0r> how to fix acpi problem on asus?
1824 [18:34:33] <annadane> what problem? if you just get "ACPI error" on startup it's probably fine to ignore it
1825 [18:35:10] <petn-randall> thyr15t0r: How does the problem show? What do you expect, what happens instead?
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1828 [18:36:39] <thyr15t0r> i can't change screen brightness on my notebook. it sets at maximum allways
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1832 [18:39:15] <thyr15t0r> i see [brightness chage} icon then i press Fn+F5/F6 buttons. but screen light not changes
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1837 [18:41:01] <thyr15t0r> debian 9.3
1838 [18:41:09] <thyr15t0r> with latest core
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1845 [18:42:24] <annadane> well firstly we're on 9.5
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1847 [18:42:35] <annadane> not sure how to solve your problem but consider updates
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1851 [18:42:56] <jelly> thyr15t0r: what does "uname -a" say?
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1854 [18:44:40] <jelly> if it's really an acpi issue it will likely only be solver thru kernel upgrades, and reported non-security bugs do sometimes get fixed in newer versions of kernel on stable
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1856 [18:45:31] <annadane> or try the kernel from backports i guess
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1858 [18:46:22] <thyr15t0r> thnx i will do it
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1860 [18:47:01] <annadane> (FIRST update to 9.5, don't immediately try using the backported kernel...)
1861 [18:47:12] <annadane> only if 9.5 doesn't solve the problem
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1863 [18:47:37] <annadane> and it involves a kernel update so make sure to reboot
1864 [18:47:52] <diogenes_> thyr15t0r, you could try this: xrandr | grep " connected" | cut -f1 -d " "
1865 [18:48:02] <diogenes_> then
1866 [18:48:12] <diogenes_> xrandr --output <output from first command> --brightness 0.7
1867 [18:48:13] <RoyK> thyr15t0r: does it work on an older kernel?
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1870 [18:48:43] <thyr15t0r> <diogenes_>i will try that. but nit niw
1871 [18:49:00] <thyr15t0r> not now*
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1909 [19:14:46] <BestSteve> q
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1929 [19:24:16] <ntz> hello
1930 [19:24:26] <indigoblu> themill: thank you! perfect example. that work.
1931 [19:25:20] <ntz> LOL: replaced-url
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2036 [19:28:22] <jelly> ntz: eh, it's still better than the alternatives, even given the thousands of unfixed bugs
2037 [19:28:34] <petn-randall> ntz: Just because you won't something, it doesn't mean you get it? AFAICS it's only a wishlist bug.
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2040 [19:29:09] <ntz> I know (and I had them also) many security related bugs that were completely ignored for months and years
2041 [19:29:09] <jelly> it probably should be higher prio than a wishlist, but that doesn't matter
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2043 [19:29:21] <petn-randall> ntz: And someone *replied* to it after 3 years. It was fixed some time in between.
2044 [19:29:46] <ntz> approx reaction time on any bug (the most of them) with debian is weeks if you're lucky independently in the content of report
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2046 [19:29:53] <jelly> ntz: I think I have decade-old open bugs
2047 [19:30:00] <ntz> yeah
2048 [19:30:12] <jelly> and I honestly prefer they be left open than closed WONTFIX
2049 [19:30:22] <ntz> anyhow ... guys, live in peace .. I came to troll a bit, I did it and now I feel like hero
2050 [19:30:36] <ntz> and not need to troll or upset ppl here anymore
2051 [19:30:36] <indigoblu> all distributions have bugs. Even RH/Fedora have big breakers over 3-5 years old.
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2053 [19:30:55] <ntz> bye !!!!
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2055 [19:31:02] * petn-randall slaps ntz with a Gentoo CD.
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2074 [19:35:36] <jelly> I can troll, too
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2079 [19:40:22] <jolt> :D
2080 [19:42:34] <greycat> jelly troll? isn't that an old jazz musician...
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2085 [19:48:19] <jhutchins_wk> MTR for bugs I've opened with RedHat is ~2 years.
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2087 [19:48:31] <jhutchins_wk> I did have one they hustled out in under a year.
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2091 [19:51:41] <jelly> and that bug is still present in stretch afaict
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2093 [19:52:21] * Butt3rfly bugs jelly
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2125 [20:16:47] <mxbd> mutiny!
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2128 [20:21:25] <greycat> Harumph. There's no pirate-cow for cowsay mootiny. At least not on my system.
2129 [20:21:56] <greycat> Clearly a grave bug at the very least.
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2157 [20:57:12] <jelly> ah, so it's not just 32bit firefox-esr 52.9 that leaks
2158 [20:57:15] <jelly> 4024 jelly 20 0 8305320 4.690g 0 T 0.0 35.1 400:09.25 firefox-esr
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2160 [20:58:06] <jelly> that's Debian's firefox-esr:amd64 from stretch. It just doesn't die after getting to the 3GiB userspace limit
2161 [20:58:33] * jelly goes back to 52.8 to confirm
2162 [20:58:39] <greycat> A web browser? Leak? Gasp.
2163 [20:59:07] <jelly> it's both debian's and mozilla's builds of 52.9 that bloat a lot more than previous 52esr did
2164 [20:59:27] <jelly> I had to restart it 3-4 times today at work, so like every 2 hours
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2167 [21:00:47] <jelly> that reminds me of the times when I had a desktop launcher icon to run: sh -c "pkill -9 firefox; sleep 1; exec /opt/firefox/firefox"
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2187 [21:30:39] <jelly> is there a way to apply Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false only for one specific repo?
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2197 [21:45:49] <violentE> I'm having an issue updating or for that matter doing anything with apt. It shows an error with linux-image-4.9.0.8-amd64. And Ive tried all the usual stuff and I can't get it to work. Here is a bpaste of the error and what I've already done: replaced-url
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2200 [21:47:23] <greycat> 's'got something to do with disk encryption, so I'm not helpful
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2203 [21:51:09] <violentE> oh of course - I put in my boot key and it worked
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2211 [21:56:38] <violentE> okay now the only problem I was halfway into remove *-7-amd64 (because I thought itd be a problem) I'm following the first answer on here: replaced-url
2212 [21:56:38] <violentE> want something broken
2213 [21:57:18] <greycat> *Is* your /boot full? Is that why you're following this URL instead of just deleting the package?
2214 [21:57:46] <violentE> well I thought it was thats why I started the process
2215 [21:57:54] <greycat> Type "df" and find out.
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2217 [21:58:23] <violentE> no its at 1%
2218 [21:58:55] <greycat> Then just purge the package instead of doing all kinds of crazy things.
2219 [21:59:02] <greycat> "dpkg --purge linux-image-whatever"
2220 [21:59:20] <violentE> but it says I'm running -7-amd right now thats why I'm scared to purge it
2221 [21:59:38] <greycat> Well then, reboot into the -8- kernel to make sure it works, and then purge it. Or leave them both installed.
2222 [22:00:00] <violentE> right
2223 [22:00:02] <violentE> okay thanks
2224 [22:00:07] <greycat> Sounds like you're not low on disk space, so there's no urgency.
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2228 [22:02:22] <jhutchins_wk> Arbitrarily deleting files from /boot sounds like a great way to b0rk a system.
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2235 [22:06:09] <jelly> esp. files for the current running kernel, or the one you're trying to install
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2243 [22:15:36] <jhutchins_wk> The kernel should be in RAM though, so you can get away with that until you reboot. You're not updating grub though, confusion abounds.
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2245 [22:17:09] <jelly> I meant from a recovery perspective, getting rid of the last kernel you know booted is not the greatest idea ever
2246 [22:18:26] <jhutchins_wk> Quite true.
2247 [22:18:41] <greycat> I generally keep two kernels.
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2281 [22:38:18] <violentE> okay it didn't work, I can start and get to a login screen but my keyboard doesn't work. Also the only kernel there was was -6 there was not -7 (which I deleted part of) or -8
2282 [22:38:28] <violentE> I don't know what to do, I'm not very good with grub
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2294 [22:52:07] <Kailen> violentE: which keyboard do you have? the main problem is that your keyboard doesn't work?
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2297 [22:55:32] <violentE> no it isn't the keyboard. I was originally having trouble updating to -8-amd64 kernel image, when (I thought) I got it to work I rebooted but now I doesn't work and the main reason is for two reasons: #1 I deleted /boot/*-7-amd64 (there were like 3 files) and thats what I was previously using. #2 The only option available is -6-amd64. I can see -8-amd64 image in grub as well as in rescue mode - dpkg --list | grep linux-image but I can't boot from
2298 [22:55:32] <violentE> it and idk how to fix this.
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2301 [22:58:21] <greycat> you said, "I rebooted but now I doesn't work" -- what doesn't work? What's the actual problem?
2302 [22:58:24] *** Joins: esaym153 (~esaym153@replaced-ip )
2303 [22:58:56] <violentE> well as it appears the keyboard and mouse doesn't work
2304 [22:59:04] <violentE> but I know its more than that
2305 [22:59:20] *** Joins: netcrash (~netcrash@replaced-ip )
2306 [22:59:48] <greycat> Mouse? Sounds like a display manager is involved, and possibly the new kernel needs to have some dkms driver rebuilt for it.
2307 [22:59:54] <netcrash> Hello, any idea on a good way to have central user authentication for windows and Linux boxes having a linux server? What could I use?
2308 [23:00:28] <violentE> but I can only boot on -6 not -8
2309 [23:00:44] <jelly> netcrash: do you already have AD?
2310 [23:00:45] <jhutchins_wk> violentE: maybe boot to a live/rescue image, chroot, and apti install a whole kernel?
2311 [23:00:59] *** Quits: cadillac_ (~omab@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2312 [23:01:14] <jhutchins_wk> netcrash: samba+winbind
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2314 [23:02:16] *** Joins: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip )
2315 [23:02:20] <jhutchins_wk> Setting up a samba server as PDC is a bit tricky with W10, but it still supposedly works.
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2317 [23:02:41] <violentE> idk if thats going to work jhutchins_wk, I have a boot key
2318 [23:02:46] <jelly> netcrash: I'd avoid setups of samba and winbind, go with sssd instead, and either sssd_ad if you're willing to join linux hosts into AD and MS Kerberos, or sssd_ldap if you're not
2319 [23:03:07] <netcrash> sssd_ldap :)
2320 [23:03:20] <netcrash> going to look into this
2321 [23:03:24] <jelly> nod
2322 [23:03:43] <violentE> I feel like the solution is simple: boot from -8. I just don't know how to go about doing that from grub
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2325 [23:04:47] <greycat> Unless you did something bizarre, it should be booting -8- by default, since that's the newest kernel you had installed at the last time grub.cfg was regenerated.
2326 [23:05:08] <greycat> In any case, you should be able to use the Down Arrow key when the grub menu comes up, and select things.
2327 [23:05:19] <greycat> Down & Up arrows, and Enter.
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2330 [23:07:20] <jelly> netcrash: works on debian 8+, or debian 7 with backported sssd bits (except libpam-sss because the one from wheezy-backports is broken, so just use the one from wheezy)
2331 [23:08:51] *** Joins: cruxeternus (~cruxetern@replaced-ip )
2332 [23:09:02] <netcrash> jelly, thank you
2333 [23:09:08] <netcrash> jhutchins_wk, thank you
2334 [23:09:21] <jelly> and with slapd as reverse proxy for AD if you're paranoid enough not to let misc linux machines poke your AD ldap ports directly
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2340 [23:11:47] <violentE> okay, so I went to mount debian -8 from a live cd and I don't have the thing mounted but in the files I have initrd -8 but not vmlinuz -8 or config -8
2341 [23:11:47] <netcrash> will start with something simple on a test , and will see from their
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2343 [23:13:05] *** Joins: spinningcat (~spinningc@replaced-ip )
2344 [23:13:22] <spinningcat> sound is weird when i connect headphone with bluetooth
2345 [23:14:07] <anoob> I cannot find my bluetooth device (speaker) when pairing
2346 [23:15:25] <jelly> violentE: reinstall the linux-image-blahlblah package that has missing /boot/vmlinuz-*
2347 [23:15:30] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2348 [23:15:31] <jelly> ,kernels
2349 [23:15:43] <michael2> I have a program that keeps opening vim.tiny - becuase /usr/bin/sensible-editor keeps choosing vim.tiny - is there some way to reconfigure /usr/bin/sensible-editor? or can I just rm it?
2350 [23:15:50] <jelly> judd... where are you
2351 [23:16:04] <michael2> I want a normal vim - not vim.tiny
2352 [23:16:51] *** Quits: Namarrgon (~Namarrgon@replaced-ip ) (Quit: reboot)
2353 [23:16:55] *** Quits: adamus1red (~MrR@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Me)
2354 [23:16:59] <jelly> michael2: install the "vim" package
2355 [23:17:00] <RoyK> michael2: update-alternatives --set editor /usr/bin/vim.basic
2356 [23:17:12] <RoyK> and yes, install vim first, obviously
2357 [23:17:47] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2358 [23:17:56] <michael2> RoyK: yes vim is installed. BTW did you watch seventh seal?
2359 [23:17:56] <jelly> its editor alternative ought to have higher priority
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2364 [23:18:36] <michael2> I thought update-alternatives only reconfigured the synlink at /usr/bin/editor?
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2367 [23:19:13] <jelly> michael2: do you perhaps have a ~/.selected_editor already for that user?
2368 [23:19:33] <RoyK> michael2: why?
2369 [23:19:33] *** Joins: kawaiipunk (~from@replaced-ip )
2370 [23:19:40] <jelly> (I'm just looking at the /usr/bin/sensible-editor script)
2371 [23:20:18] <RoyK> export EDITOR=vim
2372 [23:20:23] <RoyK> should work as well
2373 [23:20:25] <jelly> "because you look like Death"
2374 [23:20:28] * jelly hides
2375 [23:20:56] <jelly> yeah well, setting VISUAL or EDITOR is an obvious override
2376 [23:21:30] <jelly> (sensible-editor obeys both)
2377 [23:21:42] * RoyK lifts his scythe and looks in jelly's direction
2378 [23:22:01] <michael2> RoyK: I thought you downloaded it to watch?
2379 [23:23:33] *** Joins: jarfr (~jarfr@replaced-ip )
2380 [23:23:42] <RoyK> I thought I'd seen it, but seems I was thinking of something else - replaced-url
2381 [23:23:57] *** Joins: bootdisk (~bootdisk@replaced-ip )
2382 [23:24:05] *** Quits: cadillac_ (~omab@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2383 [23:24:05] <jelly> that's the one
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2386 [23:24:31] <michael2> RoyK: I cant check link - I dont have browser installed, but yeah its like 1957ish swediash movie
2387 [23:24:35] *** Joins: relaxed (~relaxed@replaced-ip )
2388 [23:24:36] <RoyK> I don't think I've seen it, no - probably something to add on the list - I usually like Swedish films
2389 [23:25:05] <michael2> well update-alternatives --config editor doesnt work
2390 [23:25:07] <RoyK> I'm quite fluent in the language too, which helps a bit
2391 [23:25:37] *** Joins: cadillac_ (~omab@replaced-ip )
2392 [23:25:55] <michael2> it says it only affects the synlink at /usr/bin/editor
2393 [23:25:58] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
2394 [23:26:11] <RoyK> well, it does just that
2395 [23:26:43] <RoyK> but some software don't give a shit about tht and just opens nano or some other crap just because they think they know things better than you
2396 [23:26:54] *** Joins: netcrash_ (~netcrash@replaced-ip )
2397 [23:27:13] <michael2> this program (ranger) is opening /usr/bin/sensible-editor
2398 [23:27:22] <michael2> I have no idea why
2399 [23:27:37] <RoyK> insensible-editor, perhaps
2400 [23:27:46] <Brigo> maybe that's the debian default
2401 [23:28:10] * jelly waits for the answer about existence of $HOME/.selected_editor file
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2404 [23:29:13] <michael2> jelly: ~/.selected_editor exists
2405 [23:29:34] <michael2> contents are:
2406 [23:29:35] *** Quits: netcrash (~netcrash@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2407 [23:29:48] <michael2> SELECTED_EDITOR=vim.tiny
2408 [23:29:53] <jelly> well then
2409 [23:29:54] <RoyK> ah
2410 [23:30:02] <RoyK> move it away
2411 [23:30:04] <RoyK> or just remove it
2412 [23:30:19] <jelly> or s/.tiny//
2413 [23:30:34] <michael2> so update-alternatives doesn't change ~/.selected_editor right?
2414 [23:30:36] <RoyK> jelly: shouldn't be needed to add it there
2415 [23:31:07] <jelly> but it would prevent sensible-editor from asking and writing it down again
2416 [23:31:11] <RoyK> michael2: that file is user configurable - update-alternatives is global - userconfig takes precense
2417 [23:32:34] <michael2> right that makes sense
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2420 [23:32:58] <michael2> so what is the "debian way" of editing that file? can I just edit it directly?
2421 [23:33:01] <usney> which is better a bluetooth keyboard or a wireless keyboard with a doggie?
2422 [23:33:13] <jelly> michael2: just remove it
2423 [23:33:22] <jelly> or edit it directly, sure
2424 [23:33:22] <RoyK> michael2: something like "rm filename" should do ;)
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2426 [23:33:31] <jelly> with ANY editor
2427 [23:33:36] <michael2> how did it get there in the first place?
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2429 [23:33:54] <jelly> sensible-editor creates it if there's no previous choice it can find
2430 [23:33:58] <RoyK> jelly: sure? replaced-url
2431 [23:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1102
2432 [23:34:40] <jelly> see how less /usr/bin/sensible-editor ... runs "select-editor" at some point
2433 [23:36:06] <jelly> replaced-url
2434 [23:36:32] <jelly> however one has to note, that on unix,
2435 [23:36:39] <jelly> ED IS THE STANDARD EDITOR
2436 [23:37:11] *** Quits: krukudilo_ (~krukudilo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2437 [23:37:12] <Brigo> jelly, that can't be true! :(
2438 [23:37:12] * RoyK will probably move away from vim once the existence of hell is proved, and it has frozen over
2439 [23:37:13] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2440 [23:37:49] <jelly> replaced-url
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2442 [23:38:24] <RoyK> jelly: the xkcd above describes this quite graphically
2443 [23:38:39] <joeazot> Hello
2444 [23:38:43] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2445 [23:39:02] <RoyK> joeazot: evening
2446 [23:39:05] *** Quits: jarfr (~jarfr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2447 [23:39:54] <jelly> I am prevented from seeing any xkcd link in this and other nearby channels by a powerful mental filter, sorry
2448 [23:40:53] <RoyK> sounds like a rather annoying filter to me
2449 [23:40:56] <joeazot> what wm do you guys use? In my linux VM (windows pleb, cbf switching yet even though i spend 95% of my time in my linux vm) i use i3-gaps.
2450 [23:41:11] <jelly> whatever xfce has by default, right now
2451 [23:41:44] <RoyK> xfwm
2452 [23:41:48] <jelly> RoyK: it saves a lot of time
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2454 [23:42:04] *** Quits: soulz (~soulz@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2455 [23:42:46] <Brigo> mate here :)
2456 [23:43:24] <jelly> but usually whatever kde uses by default, except kde session broke the other day
2457 [23:43:43] *** Quits: sc_ (~sc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: reboot)
2458 [23:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1096
2459 [23:44:11] <joeazot> honestly after using i3 i cant go back to anything else
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