People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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45 [00:54:08] <skapata> I've created a xorg.conf file and X stops running. I needed to remove it to login. Should I add something to it?
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56 [01:03:44] <Brigo> ¿Why do you create it?
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61 [01:07:09] <altker128> Hey guys. I am running Debian stretch. I am running Confluence (wiki software) in a lxc-container and it seems to hardlock my machine. What systemd logs would I check to troubleshoot?
62 [01:07:25] <altker128> (I thus far haven't had any hard locks so this is pretty bizarre)
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65 [01:07:52] <gwrbb76_> Which kernel are you running?
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67 [01:08:16] <Brigo> altker128, you can start with journalctl -b for checking logs since last boot.
68 [01:08:49] <Brigo> or journalctl -f for live logs checking. And see if there is any clues in the logs during the locks.
69 [01:08:55] <altker128> gwrbb76_: I am running 4.9.0-6
70 [01:09:05] <altker128> Brigo: Great, thank you
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72 [01:09:31] <gwrbb76_> like Brito said - but drop back to 4.17 first, OK?
73 [01:09:36] <Brigo> altker128, good luck.
74 [01:09:49] <altker128> Brigo: I am thinking of clearing out /var/log right after booting to narrow it down further -- anything issues with that?
75 [01:10:11] <altker128> gwrbb76_: Have you seen issues with 4.9.x?
76 [01:10:16] <Brigo> you shouldn't. The logs has timestamps
77 [01:10:18] <skapata> I've solved my problem creating a xorg.conf file at /etc/X11 and disabling the option PageFlip on it. :D
78 [01:11:18] <gwrbb76_> I did have issues with 4.9 - tbird froze — dropped back to 4.17 on grub menu - all was well.
79 [01:11:58] <gwrbb76_> just happened... was running 4.9 and enjoying it, too.
80 [01:12:14] <altker128> gwrbb76_: How did you revert the change? Just by changing the grub entry?
81 [01:12:32] <altker128> gwrbb76_: In /boot I only see 4.9.x images
82 [01:12:49] <gwrbb76_> nope. I had installed via cdrom and on boot, I get a choice.
83 [01:12:56] <gwrbb76_> vis grub
84 [01:13:03] <gwrbb76_> err via, even
85 [01:13:05] <altker128> OK yeah
86 [01:13:57] <altker128> gwrbb76_: When you say Tbird, do you mean the e-mail client, Thunerbird ?
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90 [01:17:27] <gwrbb76_> thunderbird, sorry yeah
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109 [01:34:26] <altker128> Like Murphy's law...not locking up now
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118 [01:40:15] <gwrbb76_> bye
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146 [02:13:39] <brimonk> So, I'm trying to install steam, but whenever I try to install 'libgl1-mesa-glx:i386' or 'libgl1-mesa-dri:i386' like it tells me, I get a blob of dependency issues, resulting in apt telling me that I've got busted packages. Here's the output: replaced-url
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148 [02:14:15] <brimonk> I've tried to reinstall the driver, to no avail, and aptitude effectively hasn't suggested a situation where I install those, and DON'T uninstall the nvidia-driver package.
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184 [03:15:30] <annadane> where to find the copies of documents libreoffice automatically saves?
185 [03:17:18] <klys> ~/.something, I guess.
186 [03:17:51] <annadane> yeah well i'm looking there...
187 [03:18:17] <idunno1> j'ai accidentellement ajouté un utilisateur à la liste des sudoers. Je l'ai ensuite retiré puis un autre jour, en télécahrgeant ce logiciel replaced-url
188 [03:18:18] <idunno1> e que dans ce cas je peux faire la commande #usermod -aG sudo <user> ? I accidentally add a non-root user into the sudoers list. then I removbed it and another day I was trying to install radare2 (replaced-url
189 [03:18:18] <idunno1> a bad pratice? 2-can I do #usermod -aG sudo <user> to restore the old parameters?
190 [03:18:30] <idunno1> just remember
191 [03:18:32] <idunno1> I accidentally add a non-root user into the sudoers list. then I removbed it and another day I was trying to install radare2 (replaced-url
192 [03:18:32] <idunno1> arameters?
193 [03:18:48] <rant> annadane: Options>LibreOffice>Paths>Temporary files
194 [03:18:55] <annadane> thanks rant
195 [03:19:34] <annadane> Options from... where? there isn't a submenu for that in libreoffice
196 [03:20:50] <klys> tools -> options ?
197 [03:20:57] <annadane> oh, yeah. duh.
198 [03:21:12] <annadane> it's in /tmp
199 [03:21:19] <annadane> (why do i never think of these things...)
200 [03:21:39] <klys> that won't help because /tmp is wiped ever boot
201 [03:21:46] <klys> every*
202 [03:21:57] <rant> annadane: Tools menu, options is at the bottom
203 [03:22:32] <klys> I want to say that's a bug if you lost power
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206 [03:24:32] <rant> annadane: wizard's 3rd rule
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236 [03:41:59] <aloo_shu> idunno1: root user / non root user doesn't say much in this context, because you only need sudo for non-root users
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238 [03:43:05] <aloo_shu> idunno1: do you *have* a root account? (on debian, you normally do)
239 [03:43:20] <idunno1> yes
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242 [03:45:11] <aloo_shu> if so, then the root password will be the password for sudo/pkexec privilege elevation, not the user password of the one invoking
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244 [03:47:06] <aloo_shu> idunno1: anyway, I'm not sure: shouldn't compiling or at least make install always be done as root/with sudo?
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248 [03:47:53] <idunno1> I want to get a file to execute, not install. If I can install securely it is better but not necessary
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250 [03:49:09] <aloo_shu> probably that executable belongs to root and/or does not have execute permission set
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252 [03:50:40] <idunno1> aloo_shu: actually I just want to get the newest version of radare2 not sure the way. what do you suggest?
253 [03:51:10] <aloo_shu> is radare complex? I get you have compiled it and now want to run the binary in the compile dir
254 [03:51:56] <idunno1> no I have not compiled it yet
255 [03:52:09] <idunno1> I just download the source. i was trying to build it
256 [03:52:19] <aloo_shu> so you get the problem when you try?
257 [03:53:04] <idunno1> yes
258 [03:53:16] <idunno1> no
259 [03:53:18] <idunno1> actually no
260 [03:53:31] <aloo_shu> o.O
261 [03:53:33] <idunno1> I tried because I was impatient
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264 [03:56:41] <aloo_shu> mixing sudo into the debian philosophy is not the best idea to begin with -
265 [03:57:02] <idunno1> :/ I will try a make
266 [03:57:13] <idunno1> instead of install
267 [03:57:41] <aloo_shu> then, editing sudoers must be done with visudo only
268 [03:58:25] <aloo_shu> - there are so many possibilities why you get this situation
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283 [04:10:11] <idunno1> I should ask more generaly how to get teh latest version of radare2? The version of apt install is too old? I can install from replaced-url
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285 [04:12:52] <swordsaint> @idunno1, there is a snap package for version 2.7
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287 [04:16:00] <idunno1> what is a snap package ? do you have a link to doc?
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311 [04:35:49] <Riddick> anyone running the lmde 2 (linux mint debian edition)? I have another PC I thought about putting it on to try it out, but if
312 [04:35:52] <Riddick> its a limited version of debian I don't want it. if it is just a bit better of an interface that gets me into cinnamon I am
313 [04:35:55] <Riddick> ok as long as apt works same as debian. thought i would ask.
314 [04:36:28] <Riddick> sorry didn't mean for my paste to post directly before i edited. accidentally posted that in ubuntu
315 [04:37:13] <somiaj> !mint
316 [04:37:13] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
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320 [04:37:58] <Riddick> i was referring to the debian edition not mint
321 [04:38:09] <Riddick> i realize linux mint is ubuntu
322 [04:38:56] <Riddick> based on what I read I think you are right. a bit more stripped down to get you into the environment and then just apt install whatever else you need.
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326 [04:41:25] <idunno1> aloo_shu: hI I finally decide to runa script to be able to launch r2 with not install it because it was easier
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337 [04:49:42] <jak2000> hi all how to enaable root access via sshd?
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346 [04:55:56] <rant> jak2000: first you go buy a gun.. then a bullet.. put the bullet in the gun, point it at your foot...
347 [04:56:03] <jak2000> rant
348 [04:56:05] <jak2000> yes understand
349 [04:56:12] <jak2000> only a moment but not necesary
350 [04:56:26] <jak2000> !msg dpkg sources.list
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355 [05:06:14] <swordsaint> @jak2000, edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config <-- look for the PermitRootLogin line
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357 [05:08:07] <rant> y'know what they say.. shoot a man in the foot and he
358 [05:08:35] <rant> he'll limp for the rest of his life, but teach a man to shoot himself in the foot.. and well.. he'll have to get a wheelchair :P
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360 [05:13:35] <altker128> jak2000: You can just edit /etc/ssh/ssd_conf
361 [05:13:44] <altker128> jak2000: To enable root access via ssh
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363 [05:15:29] <rant> unfortunately its already enabled
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366 [05:17:17] <rant> which is a good reason not to encourage anyone who doesnt already know that to do it :P
367 [05:17:31] <arahael> That is unfortunate. :)
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369 [05:18:37] <arahael> jak2000: Root isn't just a privilaged user on linux. It is a user who bypasses all security checks entirely, right in the kernel.
370 [05:19:52] <arahael> jak2000: Essentially the kernel goes: Hmm, you have User ID zero... Ok, no need to do any security checks - you go right through!
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374 [05:26:35] <aloo_shu> jak2000: everybody here can see your current ip - do yourself a favour and set up extra protection - e.g. limit ssh access (or router port forwarding) to the host you intend to ssh in from
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377 [05:28:28] <arahael> I'd also strongly recommend ensuring that a mere password is not enough to log in.
378 [05:28:41] <aloo_shu> if you're doing it as an experiment between 2 machines at home, do it on LAN only while turning off internet
379 [05:30:12] <rant> or just do what I do and don't let anyone in without keys
380 [05:30:26] <rant> disable not only root and passwords, but pam too
381 [05:30:29] <aloo_shu> on the other hand, if one explicitly *wanted* to, honeypotting could be fun..
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385 [05:32:02] <rant> which is how I know its already enabled cause its the first thing I do anytime I install it is go in and change those 3 settings
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441 [06:33:38] <insidious> will debian run on surface pro 3
442 [06:33:42] <insidious> out of the box?
443 [06:33:55] <insidious> or would it take a lot of modifications
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448 [06:35:49] <arahael> I wouldn't recommend a surface for debian.
449 [06:36:01] <insidious> ubuntu?
450 [06:36:36] <arahael> insidious: I wouldn't recommend a surface for ubuntu, either. Or any other system other than windows 10.
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453 [06:36:51] <insidious> why is that?
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457 [06:38:31] <arahael> insidious: Some people apparently get it to work fine. Some surfaces are locked to windows, though, and well, you'd have better value with something else, imho.
458 [06:39:12] <insidious> i see a lots on forums saying several dif linux distros run fine on the surface pros
459 [06:39:19] <insidious> e.g manjaro
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487 [07:22:42] <DogBoy> installed debian 9 to a usb stick, now depending on if I have 1, 2 or no hard drives hooked up it will boot, but only if I have just one hd attached
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489 [07:23:36] <DogBoy> if I have no hard drives or two it will not boot, can't find root device
490 [07:24:52] <rant> sounds to me like your root device is on hdd 1 :P
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493 [07:26:25] <DogBoy> well, I ran thru the install but it won't boot if only the usb stick is attached
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496 [07:30:09] <rant> are you booted into the system now?
497 [07:30:40] <DogBoy> that's on two es
498 [07:30:46] <DogBoy> yes
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500 [07:31:36] <DogBoy> on another machine, it's a headless install
501 [07:31:58] <rant> so you have ssh access?
502 [07:32:23] <DogBoy> probably, but using kvm
503 [07:33:17] <DogBoy> it has no internet either come to think of it, some networking problem
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505 [07:37:45] <rant> ok.. so this is entierly theoretical
506 [07:38:21] <rant> how would you even know if its booting or not with no remote access and no local output device?
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508 [07:39:19] <DogBoy> oh sorry, when I say headless I meant without x installed
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510 [07:39:38] <DogBoy> I have monitor attached right now
511 [07:39:42] <rant> yeah.. thats not called headless :P
512 [07:39:52] <DogBoy> yes I know
513 [07:40:29] <DogBoy> used to doing this on like a pogoplug
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518 [07:42:23] <DogBoy> just a little tired
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523 [07:45:02] <rant> yeah well to me it sounds like you didnt do what you thought you did and the install/rootfs is actually on the drive that has to be plugged in for it to work.. and without network you can't easily get us the amount of info we'd need very easily to debug this
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525 [07:46:20] <DogBoy> maybe, but I put the netinstall on a usb drive, then without hard drive attached installed from that usb drive to another
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527 [07:47:16] <DogBoy> then it only boot on either machine if there is a hard drive attached
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541 [07:57:00] <rant> DogBoy: can you run this command as root and upload the resulting disk.log to paste.debian.net? (lsblk -no NAME,MOUNTPOINT,FSTYPE,UUID,MODEL,TYPE,SUBSYSTEMS;cat /etc/fstab /etc/cryptab /boot/grub/grub.cfg)>disk.log
542 [07:57:56] <rant> thats about as simple as I can think to make it.. not too awefully long a command, creates a log with all details on your bootloader and disks we'd need.. that you can copy and upload
543 [07:58:17] <DogBoy> okay
544 [07:58:48] <rant> DogBoy: wait
545 [07:59:10] <rant> DogBoy: (lsblk -no NAME,MOUNTPOINT,FSTYPE,UUID,MODEL,TYPE,SUBSYSTEMS;cat /etc/fstab /etc/crypttab /boot/grub/grub.cfg)>disk.log
546 [07:59:18] <rant> missing a t in crypttab :P
547 [07:59:32] <rant> but that only matters if you are using encryption
548 [07:59:39] <rant> just covering all bases
549 [08:00:58] <rant> not really sure if there is a command to probe all disks and tell if there is grub installed on em.. heh
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553 [08:02:24] <rant> there is grub-probe but it can't just easily blanket probe all disks.. so after we can see your setup maybe you can verify the device on your end with that
554 [08:03:17] <rant> I included model and type so there is no confusion about WHICH devices we're talking about
555 [08:03:41] <rant> as I think the problem here is you are confused about which disks you used at some point
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559 [08:06:50] <DogBoy> it barfed on /etc/cryptab
560 [08:06:59] <DogBoy> said not found
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563 [08:11:44] <DogBoy> rant, replaced-url
564 [08:11:56] <rant> yeah as I said I didnt type crypttab, and that file only matters if you are using encryption
565 [08:13:02] <DogBoy> not using encryption
566 [08:13:23] <DogBoy> oh, missed your remark
567 [08:13:29] <rant> ah well I see the problem
568 [08:13:38] <rant> grub is pointing to /dev/sdb1 for the root
569 [08:13:51] <rant> which is likely to change.. its not using the UUID for some odd reason
570 [08:14:03] <DogBoy> ah
571 [08:14:12] <DogBoy> makes sense
572 [08:14:29] <rant> thats whats probably happening with different disk configs, the device names are changing and the root is no longer on /dev/sdb1
573 [08:15:08] <rant> question would be wth did it do that, it usually uses UUID, especially since fstab and the --set-root in grub.cfg are using UUID
574 [08:15:17] <DogBoy> yes, with no drive it is /dev/sda1
575 [08:15:33] <rant> but the kernel command line says the device name not its UUID
576 [08:15:39] <DogBoy> and with 2 it is /dev/sdc1
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582 [08:18:36] <DogBoy> do edit grub.cfg and use uuid?
583 [08:18:46] <rant> well I'm not real grub savvy and I know it says to not edit that file, but unless someone else can chime in I say do this..
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585 [08:19:24] <rant> sed -ie 's#/dev/sdb1#f6882fe4-86fd-4a2f-a19e-900120033e4c#' /boot/grub/grub.cfg
586 [08:19:26] <DogBoy> I'm even less grub saavy
587 [08:19:36] <rant> then grub-install /dev/sdb
588 [08:19:41] <rant> and that should fix your issue
589 [08:19:55] <rant> will just replace any instance of /dev/sdb1 with the UUID
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592 [08:21:39] <rant> you can make a backup of the file first and double check if you want.. but shouldnt be necessary as running update-grub will just make you a new one :P
593 [08:21:52] <rant> don't do that btw, or it'll overwrite the changes.. heh
594 [08:22:01] <rant> idk why it did that in the first place
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598 [08:25:14] <rant> I got no idea how to really exert any influence over grubs automagic shit other than to take the executable bit off scripts in /etc/grub.d/ or edit files it says not to edit :P
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604 [08:27:13] <DogBoy> hmm
605 [08:27:21] <DogBoy> so goofy
606 [08:28:03] <DogBoy> another way I suppose is to do the install again with the hard drives attached
607 [08:28:16] <rant> DogBoy: yeah thats way overkill
608 [08:28:45] <rant> this will work.. all you need is those linux command lines to show the UUID and thats easily done with sed
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610 [08:29:30] <DogBoy> hmm
611 [08:29:30] <DogBoy> odd problem
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614 [08:30:34] <DogBoy> still need to figure out the networking problem
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617 [08:31:19] <rant> which is?
618 [08:31:29] <DogBoy> no network
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620 [08:31:39] <DogBoy> no dns anyway
621 [08:31:42] <rant> yeah well machines with no network usually have no network
622 [08:31:48] <DogBoy> lol
623 [08:32:12] <DogBoy> yes well if I knew what the problem was beyond no network
624 [08:32:20] <DogBoy> than I would have a different answer
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626 [08:32:39] <rant> works like this, you state what you're trying to do, what you did, what you expected to happen, and what actually happened
627 [08:32:43] <rant> !good questions
628 [08:32:48] <rant> !good question
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630 [08:33:01] <rant> dpkg, you alive?
631 [08:33:01] <dpkg> I resemble that remark!
632 [08:33:13] <DogBoy> yes but as I say, I still have to address it
633 [08:33:13] <arahael> What's the *best* remote access client available for linux now? (On Mac, I use Remotix, and it's awesome - but looking for something for linux)
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637 [08:33:40] <`whoami`> define best
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639 [08:33:41] <DogBoy> which is to say after this boot problem
640 [08:33:43] <rue_> anyone know how to make a grep pattern for IP addresses?
641 [08:33:59] <rant> arahael: I am fond of X2go for its overall simplicity and such.. but the client is not in debian, but the upstream has a deb repo and stretch packages.. the server however is in debian
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643 [08:35:14] <rant> also nice is xpra, winswitch which more an all-in-one frontend available for all platforms, and most all backends i.e. VNC, RDP, xpra, nx, etc.
644 [08:35:23] <arahael> rant: Hmm. I'd like a client, though - but that's an interesting option for the server, I should check that out, though X2go's website is *remarkably* bad!
645 [08:35:39] <rant> idk I didnt see anything wrong with it really
646 [08:36:09] <rant> I just fetched the client package manually.. but they got a repo.. I dont recall offhand why its not packaged in debian (the client)
647 [08:36:18] <rant> !x2go
648 [08:36:18] <dpkg> X2Go is an open source terminal server project using the NX protocol (not compatible with other NX servers and clients). The Qt-based X2Go client is packaged as x2goclient, the X2Go server is currently not packaged (bug #465821). Packages from third-party repositories are not supported in #debian. replaced-url
649 [08:36:37] <rant> hmm that says the opposite
650 [08:36:48] <rant> ,i x2goclient
651 [08:36:49] <judd> Package x2goclient (x11, extra) in stretch/amd64: X2Go Client application (Qt4). Version: 4.0.5.2-2; Size: 1242.4k; Installed: 2602k; Homepage: replaced-url
652 [08:36:55] <rant> ,i x2goserver
653 [08:36:56] <judd> No package named 'x2goserver' was found in stretch/amd64.
654 [08:37:05] <rant> maybe I had it backwards :P
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656 [08:38:07] <arahael> Interestingly, yes. But awesome, that's another option, too, I hadn't considered the NX setup for a long time.
657 [08:38:25] <rant> I found winswitch kinda confusing but IIRC it supports all major protocol backends, all major OSes, can do standalone, clone, or individual apps, can pass apps back and forth from one machine to another..
658 [08:38:47] *** Quits: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
659 [08:38:51] <arahael> Nice. Very happy with Remotix (expensive, though), but as a client only.
660 [08:39:00] <arahael> Doesn't seem to work with NX, though.
661 [08:39:09] <rant> I liked x2go cause it was dead simple to use.. if you have ssh access all you need to do is install the server and it just works(tm)
662 [08:39:35] <rant> was able to connect using my existing ssh port forwards and keys
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665 [08:40:08] <rant> xpra is about as simple and both xpra and x2go are fast and reliable on high latency connections
666 [08:40:23] <arahael> I think I'll definitely have to give those two a go.
667 [08:40:31] <rant> xpra is like screen/tmux for X
668 [08:40:45] <arahael> Oh, *awesome*.
669 [08:41:06] <rant> can attach/detach individual apps remotely and it too can work over ssh
670 [08:41:10] <arahael> Does it support resizing?
671 [08:41:27] <arahael> attaching/detaching like that sounds amazing
672 [08:41:29] <rant> I never used xpra for anything but serving individual apps started from ssh
673 [08:41:48] <rant> which makes for way faster access cause its not buffering a desktop
674 [08:42:02] <arahael> Looks like it might even work on the mac, too (as a client)
675 [08:42:09] <arahael> (There's a brew cask for it)
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677 [08:42:34] <rant> I had used it to run Win7 in Virtualbox over a very crappy wifi hotspot on an Orange Pi Lite (512mb ram total, shared with video) and it felt like I was running Win7 natively on the remote Core2Duo host
678 [08:42:55] <rant> well xpra is pure python, it'll run anywhere python will
679 [08:43:04] <arahael> I'll _definitely_ have to play with it. Impressive that it's pure python.
680 [08:43:31] <rant> has GUI frontends for client/server IIRC but I never used those either
681 [08:43:57] <rant> I mostly just used it when I ssh into something remotely to start a X client remotely then connect to it
682 [08:44:05] <arahael> Fair enough. Will play. :)
683 [08:44:21] <rant> and it feels like you're running the app natively not boxed into some VNC type deal
684 [08:44:50] <rant> but with the power of the remote machine behind it, so you can be using a total piece of trash like an OPI Lite on the client side :P
685 [08:45:04] <arahael> :)
686 [08:45:07] <rant> it
687 [08:45:20] <arahael> Gotta go - thanks for all that.
688 [08:45:20] <rant> it will just draw spinners on the window if the connection lags too bad
689 [08:45:29] <arahael> That's reasonable.
690 [08:46:06] <arahael> Oh, wait, just made me think...
691 [08:46:19] <rant> uh oh
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693 [08:46:51] <arahael> What's this like for non-X11 environments? Particularly on those systems that are starting to move away from x11.
694 [08:47:02] <rant> don't blame me for that.. thinking leads to trouble.. next thing you know they'll find out you're divergent..
695 [08:47:12] <arahael> Using wayland.
696 [08:47:33] <arahael> Yeah, thinking is always a mistake, but I can't help myself!
697 [08:48:07] <rant> I'm not sure.. look into winswitch, xpra, x2go, read their websites, join their channels.. etc.. idk
698 [08:48:26] <rant> winswitch looked really impressive, but confused the hell out of me
699 [08:48:28] <arahael> That's cool, will check them out!
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701 [08:48:41] <arahael> To be honest, I might find myself sticking to rdesktop.
702 [08:48:55] <rant> they show it using a notification type applet to just start and app like from a menu and sending it back and forth from win to mac to linux systems
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705 [08:49:26] <arahael> Hmm, that could be interesting.
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707 [08:49:32] <rant> it seems to be a project with the aim to do it all.. all the protocols, oses, and types of remote access.
708 [08:49:56] <rant> cause really you have exporting a local display, like a logged in session, a new session, or individual apps
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710 [08:50:10] <rant> and winswitch can do all of that, and over pretty much any protocol
711 [08:50:11] <arahael> Interesting. I have to go now. :) Thanks for that - good to see that there's still some innovation still happenign in this space.
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716 [08:52:59] <DogBoy> that did it rant
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718 [08:53:04] <DogBoy> thanks
719 [08:53:42] <DogBoy> but I didn't do the grub commands, just edited grub.cfg, now it boots with 0, 1 or 2 drives attached
720 [08:53:47] <DogBoy> still no network though
721 [08:54:04] <DogBoy> also I put boot=UUID=
722 [08:54:17] <rant> o.O
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724 [08:54:20] <DogBoy> rather
725 [08:54:32] <rant> oh right..
726 [08:54:50] <rant> yeah that sed command was wrong
727 [08:54:55] <DogBoy> thank you for your help
728 [08:55:10] <rant> thanks for providing the info needed
729 [08:55:19] <DogBoy> I would otherwise have pulled out more hair
730 [08:55:33] <rant> you could've given it to me.. mine is thinnin out
731 [08:55:35] <rant> heh
732 [08:55:44] <DogBoy> heh
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736 [08:56:58] <rant> its cruel what happens to hair in many men.. stops growin on top and starts comin out everwhere else..
737 [08:57:40] <rant> I used to have to worry about just cuttin around my ears, not in them
738 [08:58:16] <DogBoy> runs in my family but I think it skipped my generation
739 [08:58:36] <DogBoy> my eyebrows tho
740 [08:58:45] <DogBoy> mad scientist
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780 [09:34:07] <DogBoy> figured out the network problem rant
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782 [09:35:05] <DogBoy> apparently I took the dialog which said something like remove installation media to mean right now
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784 [09:35:24] <DogBoy> I redid the install and removed it after it was rebooting
785 [09:35:43] <DogBoy> it does some network install stuff after that dialog
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867 [10:46:39] <fr0xk> Joined as Debian WikiTranslator :)
868 [10:47:00] <fr0xk> Feels good to contribute :)
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1027 [11:45:13] <zentris> Just submitted a new theme proposal with new logo ideas for debian: replaced-url
1028 [11:46:44] <zentris> If anyone is awake would like to see what you think, thank you.
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1031 [11:47:26] <bazhang> zentris, I'd wager debian has an art channel
1032 [11:47:36] <bazhang> /msg alis list debian
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1034 [11:48:23] <zentris> I was told this is the channel for it?
1035 [11:48:42] <zentris> oh nvm lol
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1037 [11:48:55] <zentris> thought it was #debian-desktop
1038 [11:49:05] <bazhang> heh
1039 [11:49:05] <zentris> but i always ask here anyways :p
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1051 [12:01:03] <`whoami`> hello, when i try to install or remove something using apt i get this error:
1052 [12:01:06] <`whoami`> dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting: files list file for package 'libgs9-common' is missing final newline
1053 [12:01:07] <dpkg> I think you lost me on that one, `whoami`
1054 [12:01:32] <`whoami`> any idea how i can fix this ? i tried apt install --reinstall libgs9-common, just in case, but same error happens
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1070 [12:10:25] <Scrutinizer> zentris: very nice logos. :)
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1075 [12:14:44] <`whoami`> oh i think i got it
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1078 [12:17:28] <zentris> thanks, tried to do a more modern approach. Just a suggestion, as I could always use the old one in the final design as well.
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1094 [12:38:24] <Epakai>
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1105 [12:56:09] <cek> Hi. There was a funny program that would walk through file/blkdev and show any known signatures that it finds along the file. I forgot its name again,could you help me remember? not `wipefs -n`
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1137 [13:17:57] <Scrutinizer> zentris: I think they all look better than the current one actually. ;-)
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1142 [13:22:51] <jelly> cek, file signatures (photorec) or filesystem signatures (gpart)?
1143 [13:23:11] <cek> photorec yes, but it isn't powerful enough
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1145 [13:24:09] <cek> oh fuck, just recalled , it's binwalk!!!!
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1147 [13:26:00] <cek> made by same guy btw
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1159 [13:41:56] <bch> hello, i am execugint 'xdg-settings set default-web-browser firefox.desktop', but afterwards, querying the defaultbrowser with get returns chromium.desktop.
1160 [13:42:21] <bch> any ideas whats going on? i am using windowmaker/debian9. (xfce is installed but not really used as far as i can tell)
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1163 [13:47:05] <bch> ah file does not exist. does anyone know where firefox.desktip should be located? i have one in /usr/share/xfce4/helpers/firefox.desktop
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1165 [13:48:11] <jelly> it might be firefox-esr.desktop instead
1166 [13:48:47] <jelly> ,file firefox-esr.desktop
1167 [13:48:51] <judd> Search for firefox-esr.desktop in stretch/amd64: xul-ext-iceweasel-branding: usr/share/applications/firefox-esr.desktop; firefox-esr: usr/share/applications/firefox-esr.desktop
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1169 [13:49:27] <deadrom> hi
1170 [13:51:20] <deadrom> what's a maintainable way to restrict service account functions? right now I'm at a start-at-deny-all-sudoers file, but with growing functions across different roles it's becoming a hassle, let alone version changes where tools are replaced, systemd taking over for one.
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1190 [14:13:30] <JustASlacker> isnt deny all pretty much the default?
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1193 [14:14:11] <bch> jelly: thanks! that was the problem.
1194 [14:14:27] <JustASlacker> we use ansible and if a role needs permissions, we have it put a file into sudoers.d
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1198 [14:19:05] <deadrom> JustASlacker: segmenting is definetly a good idea.
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1202 [14:23:39] <JustASlacker> no shit
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1209 [14:31:32] <zentris> replaced-url
1210 [14:37:01] <mahe> zentris, I like this new logo design of yours
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1212 [14:37:39] <zentris> thanks, more ideas I made here: replaced-url
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1453 [15:14:03] <mallxs> after a dhcp line comes up in need to set a default route in iprules default section. any tips on getting the new ipnumber ?
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1465 [15:28:22] <rafalcpp> when application developers are incompetent morons and restrict users
1466 [15:28:24] <rafalcpp> for example Firefox
1467 [15:28:30] <rafalcpp> can Debian add a patch to tell firefox to fuck off?
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1469 [15:29:09] <rafalcpp> e.g. newer ffox blocks user from using replaced-url
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1471 [15:30:48] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: And what problem are you trying to fix? Just pick any other of the 32768 ports.
1472 [15:31:11] <FinalX> only 32768?
1473 [15:31:27] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: I want to use that one, lol who is Firefox to forbade me
1474 [15:31:45] <rafalcpp> FinalX: other are emphereal and shouldn't be listened on
1475 [15:32:00] <FinalX> doesn't mean that you can't :p
1476 [15:32:05] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: WHY do you want to use that one?
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1478 [15:33:12] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: it's default for irc bouncers for example
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1480 [15:33:45] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Either way, the solution is documented: replaced-url
1481 [15:33:51] <rafalcpp> but anyway it's about attitude of software that it knows better then user, and totally removes option for user to say "NO, do as I say" to software (without recompilation, really pita)
1482 [15:34:15] <FinalX> since when do IRC bouncers talk HTTP through Firefox? that's precisely a reason for Firefox to block it: the numerous malware javascripts that create a botnet that way
1483 [15:34:17] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: yeap, but not for someone's else server. and anyway it's about letting user decide
1484 [15:34:29] <rafalcpp> FinalX: since they have webui
1485 [15:34:48] <FinalX> 6667/tcp is a registered protocol port
1486 [15:34:56] <FinalX> and it's to ircd, NOT http
1487 [15:35:01] <rafalcpp> FinalX: so? sue the user?
1488 [15:35:06] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: What do you mean with "but not for someone's else server"? The link I gave you *literally* has the solution to remove that protection.
1489 [15:35:07] <rafalcpp> or let user decide
1490 [15:35:22] <FinalX> if a bnc does two protocols on one port it should be shot
1491 [15:35:31] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: oh right, sorry. That solution stoped working, it does not work in debian stable
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1493 [15:35:33] <FinalX> this is to protect users, and you're not obliged to use Firefox either
1494 [15:35:47] <FinalX> plenty of fish in the sea, for both bnc's and browsers
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1496 [15:36:08] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: LIES
1497 [15:36:09] <rafalcpp> FinalX: lol. FOR UR PROTECTION I FORBADE YOU! thank you mr software, am I allowed to go back to my room now
1498 [15:36:22] <FinalX> Indeed.
1499 [15:36:22] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Stop ranting, I just tried it on Debian stable and IT WORKS.
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1501 [15:36:49] <FinalX> You *should* go to your room now instead of whining in ours about software that's not maintained by anyone here.
1502 [15:36:57] <FinalX> Kinda pointless and annoying tbh.
1503 [15:37:13] <Vanfanel> Do you guys know if it's possible to connect to a bluetooth device using "hcitool cc <ADDRESS>" directly?
1504 [15:37:17] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: there is no such option in my firefox from debian stable. is there in yours?
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1506 [15:37:59] <rafalcpp> only option named network. with search on "ports" is network.stricttransportsecurity.preloadlist. Firefox ESR 52.9.0 (64-bit)
1507 [15:38:01] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: FOR FUCKS SAKE. *READ* the link I gave you. I'm not reading it out for you.
1508 [15:38:22] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: You need to create it. It says so in the link.
1509 [15:38:24] <FinalX> We don't need to read jack shit. It's completely off-topic to anything and anyone in this channel.
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1511 [15:38:41] <petn-randall> But by all means, go off a tangent in the channel in here before you do any of your own research.
1512 [15:39:59] <rafalcpp> ah right, you can create new options there. that works
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1514 [15:40:35] <themill> Who knew that "If the above-listed preference does not exist:" might mean that
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1516 [15:41:40] <rafalcpp> yeap I miss-read that. Still it's very not user friendly, this option should exist as empty string by default imo - but at least it's possible
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1520 [15:43:39] <petn-randall> It's a reading comprehension test. If you can't comprehend simple instructions with bullet points, you shouldn't be going near about:config.
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1528 [15:47:34] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: user friendly software would instead simply ask to confirm. Anyway it's about user connecting to port (in URL) and at most what, user would be tricked by following an URL to connect to some IRC server and get HTTP error. Even SSL certs (whih is actually a security risk) has that more correctly
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1535 [15:52:38] <FinalX> rafalcpp: Javascript can be used to talk to sockets directly, and therefore turn a user's browser into an unwilling botnet client. So, by blocking the default IRC port, it'll at least be harder without sacrificing regular browsing functionality.
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1537 [15:53:58] <rafalcpp> FinalX: well that would be a separate setting then. One thing to have user go to such URL, other to let JS connect to it and send what ever it wants there
1538 [15:55:19] <FinalX> Or you can just NOT talk HTTP to an IRC-port, and if you, as you say, have a bouncer that defaults to that port: change it (and only let it do IRC), and/or put a reverse proxy in front with SSL. As you'd not have an encrypted connection otherwise anyway. Point still being, why complain and whine about Firefox in here. This is #debian, not #firefox or #reddit.
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1546 [16:05:39] <aloo_shu> sad that javascript was given so far a reach that other features had to go instead
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1550 [16:09:03] <aloo_shu> ofc ff has tons of ports, but does iceweasel still exist? in any case, if you want to maintain an up-to-date fork of a fast moving piece of software like ff, any changes that go beyond the logo can get surprise-obsoleted any time
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1555 [16:12:08] <rafalcpp> FinalX: my question was could we patch that, but seing as it is possible (just very not user friendly) it seems there is no big need
1556 [16:12:34] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: You can try filing a bug report, but I'm going to guess it won't be changed.
1557 [16:12:53] <petn-randall> aloo_shu: Firefox ESR is hardly "fast moving".
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1559 [16:13:41] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: well I would simply add there a short text explaining it, not hidden in 100 lines of cruft, like "To allow this port, go to about:config, then click anywhere with mouse and select option New - New String, enter name '...' and enter or edit coma-spearated list of ports like '6667,6668'"
1560 [16:13:53] <rafalcpp> but anyway it is possible after all. thx petn-randall >_>
1561 [16:15:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
1562 [16:15:25] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: It's not buried in "100 lines of cruft". It was literally 7 bullet points, and you failed to read past the 3rd one.
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1564 [16:17:03] <aloo_shu> petn-randall: sorry, cannot judge it - I'm mainly on android devices, and using gnu icecat mobile
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1568 [16:20:41] <aloo_shu> I think I understood how to get ff to allow all ports the first time I needed to
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1576 [16:25:41] <aloo_shu> could be that when the measure was new, ftp or sftp didn't even work - or that I wanted to use telnet like ftp, i.e. pull a file out of a directory listing
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1578 [16:26:36] * greycat wonders what he walked into
1579 [16:28:22] <jelly> it was just a few years ago that web browsers were _heavily_ abused to spam irc networks, this default value is placed there for good reason
1580 [16:29:02] <jelly> rafalcpp, so no, I don't think Debian will revert the default value for everyone just to math your use case
1581 [16:29:11] <jelly> match*
1582 [16:29:27] *** zrnd is now known as xand
1583 [16:30:06] <oo_miguel> hmm I do not fully understand how to read the CVE tracker: example : replaced-url
1584 [16:30:18] <oo_miguel> what is the difference between stretch and stretch (security)?
1585 [16:30:30] <jelly> different repo
1586 [16:30:33] <greycat> stretch (security) is what you get from security.debian.org
1587 [16:30:49] <oo_miguel> why do I get an older vulnerable kernel from this repo :P ?
1588 [16:30:59] <oo_miguel> while the non-security one is fixed
1589 [16:31:21] <greycat> If it's older, you won't "get it" at all, because apt always grabs the newest thing from your sources.
1590 [16:31:28] <jelly> oo_miguel, you do not get the older package if you have the default apt configuration, you get the latest version avaiable
1591 [16:31:42] <rafalcpp> jelly: I didn't propose to enable it by default. First I proposed to allow to change that setting, but then turned out it already is possible after all. So if anything I would only add information diretly into the program's own message.
1592 [16:31:51] <oo_miguel> greycat, jelly: aaaah
1593 [16:31:55] <oo_miguel> ok thank you very much
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1595 [16:33:36] <rafalcpp> jelly: also it seems entering any address in URL is safe, only problem is when JS can send arbitrary TCP data to connection it opens, so there could be two settings - but that is a larger patch, perhaps idea for upstream
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1599 [16:37:08] <Galaxor> I downloaded a font from fontlibrary.org. How do I install it so I can use it?
1600 [16:38:05] <Galaxor> A: replaced-url
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1619 [16:52:26] <urzds> Hello!
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1621 [16:53:04] <urzds> I have created a report using reportbug, which also generated a backup. Before actually sending the report, I aborted the process. Now I want to submit the backup. How do I do that?
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1644 [17:06:39] <urzds> I tried sending the backup file through sendmail, but that appears to have no effect.
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1650 [17:09:12] <urzds> replaced-url
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1657 [17:15:17] <jelly> urzds, do your sendmail logs show the message went out?
1658 [17:15:27] <urzds> Yes
1659 [17:15:40] <greycat> It also takes several minutes for the BTS software to respond.
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1661 [17:15:45] <urzds> I just submitted another report using reportbug and now I get a copy to my inbox.
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1665 [17:20:21] <urzds> greycat: How many minutes? I am waiting for at least half an hour, since I tried to submit the first copy of the report.
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1669 [17:22:50] <jelly> 20 minutes ought to be enough, if it didn't pass through after that it probably won't
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1679 [17:30:44] <urzds> jelly: Any idea what might be the issue...? Or how I can figure out where it hangs?
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1692 [17:40:48] <urzds> Hm, finally I received a confirmation email...
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1694 [17:41:04] <urzds> Seems that submitting report backups through sendmail alone does not work...
1695 [17:41:06] <greycat> from the first one, or the second one?
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1697 [17:41:28] <greycat> If the first one didn't work, then you probably sent it to the wrong address or in the wrong format.
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1706 [17:47:23] <urzds> Dang, now they are all being acked...
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1708 [17:52:22] <themill> ssh bugs?
1709 [17:52:36] <urzds> Yes
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1711 [17:52:54] <themill> 4 copies will probably be excessive ;)
1712 [17:53:19] <urzds> I tried to submit the bug several times, waiting for almost an hour and now all of them are getting through in reverse order...
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1732 [18:12:29] <urzds> greycat, jelly, themill: Thanks for the help!
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1739 [18:18:22] <bfrog> reprepro is complaining it can't find the definition of a distribution
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1741 [18:18:45] <bfrog> which is confusing me, I want to add a package I made to a repo for a few version of debian
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1745 [18:23:35] <bitess> bfrog: copy the whole command and your conf/distributions to paste.debian.net, please.
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1755 [18:32:34] <debron> hi guys. ABOUT GAMEPADS, which of them work out-of-the-box in debian? I need it for mednafen. Xbox360 , or xbox one controllers do work?
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1757 [18:33:10] <debron> any other pc game controllers work nice out-of-the-box in debian + mednafen?
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1760 [18:35:24] <bitess> i got my dualshock 3 controller to work with xboxdrv without a problem.
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1762 [18:36:59] <debron> xboxdrv its a debian package?
1763 [18:37:12] <bitess> ,i xboxdrv
1764 [18:37:13] <judd> Package xboxdrv (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Xbox360 gamepad driver for the userspace. Version: 0.8.8-1; Size: 512.8k; Installed: 1753k; Homepage: replaced-url
1765 [18:37:16] <bitess> yep
1766 [18:37:50] <debron> thanks
1767 [18:38:13] <debron> so bitess its just plug it in, sudo apt-get install xboxdrv
1768 [18:38:23] <debron> and thats it? will be recognized by the system?
1769 [18:38:32] <debron> after that, i can just start mednafen and configure controls?
1770 [18:38:45] <petn-randall> debron: AFAIR it was like that, yes. But whatever app you're using needs to support it, too.
1771 [18:38:53] <bitess> i had to manually start xboxdrv
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1773 [18:39:18] <debron> petn-randall: do you know if mednafen support it?
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1775 [18:40:13] <debron> bitess: everytime?
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1777 [18:40:31] <debron> ok ok , lets say I have logitech F310
1778 [18:40:35] <bitess> i don't use it often so i didn't look if there was a way to automate.
1779 [18:40:35] <debron> it will be easier?
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1781 [18:41:03] <debron> automatically recognized by debian? Logitech F310
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1785 [18:42:18] <colon_three> as far as i remember the wired 360 controller works out of the box
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1788 [18:42:58] <colon_three> last time i ran it on a testing build, at least
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1823 [19:17:57] <jhutchins_wk> I would not expect gaming devices to work automatically with a default Debian install, a default install is in no way optimized for gaming.
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1825 [19:18:50] <bozza> I have a very general linux question
1826 [19:18:54] <bozza> where can I ask one?
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1828 [19:21:53] <petn-randall> bozza: Is it related to Debian?
1829 [19:22:12] <bozza> compiling a linux kernel
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1832 [19:24:03] <crackpotmark> ##linux exists
1833 [19:24:08] <bozza> ty
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1837 [19:26:14] <bfrog> bitess: ah, I realized I was missing the dist in conf/distributions
1838 [19:26:25] <bfrog> learning lots of new things about debian recently
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1860 [19:48:53] <hexhaxtron> Is there a simple tool that checks the GPS coordinates of a JPEG photograph and displays the name of the location of it? I just need the name of the location not the map.
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1911 [20:04:36] <phogg> hexhaxtron: you can get GPS coordinates out of exiftool(1). Getting the name would require a separate resole step, though.
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1919 [20:06:56] <thecolorjay> Hey
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1924 [20:11:03] <CarlFK> starting with a minimal install, what do I need to apt-get so I can transfer files over usb conected android phone that is set to "transfer files" (vs share photos and some 3rd protocol)
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1958 [20:29:59] <Okee> I am attempting to access drivers from System76 for Debian, and was provided the following commands replaced-url
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1964 [20:32:47] <CarlFK> Okee: this will get you the first command: sudo apt --assume-yes install software-properties-common
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1971 [20:38:45] <Okee> CarlFK> I entered the commands you recommended, but the drivers are still not found after entering the 3rd command. Am I correct that the System76 staff just failed to submit files to Debian?
1972 [20:39:20] <CarlFK> um.. no.
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1974 [20:39:30] <Okee> CarlFK> System76 does not use the LVM shared firmware infrastructure. They use some type of proprietary system that is ethereal at best.
1975 [20:39:58] <Okee> They alleges to have drivers for Debian, but it is like looking for Big Foot. Everyone has seen it, but no one can find it. hahahah
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1980 [20:41:56] <CarlFK> Okee: paste the output of the commands to replaced-url
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1983 [20:43:11] <Okee> CarlFK> Would you please clarify which commands you are referring to? Do you mean the ones System76 placed on their website?
1984 [20:43:19] <Thedarkb-T60> I'm having trouble with sound.
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1986 [20:43:25] <Thedarkb-T60> It just suddenly stopped working.
1987 [20:43:26] <greycat> Okee: whatever you ran that did not work.
1988 [20:43:33] <Okee> greycat> Thanks
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1993 [20:45:48] <Thedarkb-T60> Well, just the browser.
1994 [20:45:54] <Thedarkb-T60> Pale moon won't play audio for me.
1995 [20:46:36] <Okee> CarlFK> The following paste has the not found error for System76 drivers replaced-url
1996 [20:47:15] <Okee> I am taking a lunch break and will return in 30-45 minutes
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1998 [20:48:19] <rant> We don't pay for lunch breaks...
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2000 [20:49:12] <CarlFK> Okee: im not sure what is and isn't int he ppa, and if it will "just work" with debian. paste the results of the first two commands - I suspect there is at least a warning
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2005 [20:52:52] <no_gravity> I really would like to have a terminal with a border around it. Similar to what the C64 looked like. Do you guys think its possible to do that?
2006 [20:53:05] <premoboss> hi. on the same machine, debian 8 (stock linux 3.16) is ok, debian 9 (stock linux 4.9) the audio does not work. i look around pulseaudio panel, alsamixergui, and so on but no success tyo make it play. what i do wrong?
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2011 [20:56:57] <jhutchins_wk> !alsa checklist
2012 [20:56:57] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
2013 [20:57:23] <jhutchins_wk> Suspect pulseaudio, although it's gotten better in recent releases.
2014 [20:57:26] <premoboss> tnks
2015 [20:57:48] <jhutchins_wk> no_gravity: I take it you want that on the main console, not an xterm?
2016 [20:58:26] <no_gravity> jhutchins_wk: What is the main console?
2017 [20:59:25] <Okee> CarlFK> Here is the results of all three commands from System76 replaced-url
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2020 [20:59:46] <fath0m> hello guys, does debian stretch 9.5 have support for 8th gen intel cpus?
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2022 [20:59:53] <fath0m> and radeon 530 graphics?
2023 [21:00:00] <fath0m> i have a laptop with hybrid graphics.
2024 [21:00:06] <no_gravity> jhutchins_wk: I am using mate-terminal. Very happy with it. Just don't like that the text touches the border. A huge margin would be nice.
2025 [21:00:10] <premoboss> fath0m, should be the kernel to support them, not the distro
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2027 [21:00:22] <CarlFK> Okee: E: Failed to fetch replaced-url
2028 [21:00:31] <fath0m> yes, but how am i supossed to know if it supports it or naw?
2029 [21:00:35] <fath0m> it boots, everything works fine
2030 [21:00:47] <fath0m> just idk if it is working properly, the performance seemed to be better on testing though.
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2032 [21:01:32] <CarlFK> Okee: maybe you can get that ppa to work with your install, but looks like the instructions are for ubuntu,
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2034 [21:02:12] <greycat> When you see "ppa" and "ubuntu" you should know this is not going to work.
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2037 [21:03:44] <Alina-malina> replaced-url
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2040 [21:04:35] <Okee> CarlFK> I suspect the System76 staff are not engineers and just resellers, but one red flag is that they don't use the LVM shared firmware infrastructure so getting drivers out of them is doubtful. The laptop is a rebranded Cleavo and I don't think the System76 staff know too much about anything else other than Ubuntu and the hideous gnome interface the laptop came with. I took that thing off of here as everything in gnome is
2041 [21:04:36] <Okee> broken. I would have preferred no desktop, or at least xfce or LDMX.
2042 [21:05:10] <rant> perhaps you mean LXDE or LXQT
2043 [21:05:33] <Okee> yes, LXDE. My manual dexterity isn't that good.
2044 [21:06:34] <Okee> My point is that System76 support is basically non-existant. Basically just a bunch of web developers selling a rebranded Chinese laptop. The display is good, but the other things are average. And driver support is virtually nonexistent.
2045 [21:07:07] <CarlFK> Sounds like you should find some investors and start a better company.
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2047 [21:07:29] <Okee> I had trouble running XFCE and other desktops with their pop which is why I took it off my machine. I have had no problem since installing Debian. However, I need to shut off my back light, and also need a way to control the screen brightness. The screen became real dim after removing POP and Gnome.
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2066 [21:23:25] <havenstance> anyone know why on a fresh install of Debian 9.5 I get this error bash: sudo: command not found? this has happened on two machines both installed from the xfce .iso
2067 [21:23:36] <greycat> sudo isn't installed by default. If you want it, install it.
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2069 [21:26:41] <havenstance> um it was in Jessie
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2071 [21:27:46] <fysa> anyone here from replaced-url
2072 [21:27:51] <greycat> It depends on HOW and WHAT you install. If you leave the root password blank, it adds you to the sudo group and installs sudo for you.
2073 [21:28:23] <greycat> In any case, just install whatever you need.
2074 [21:28:24] <fysa> looking at .. replaced-url
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2082 [21:40:02] <Brigo> greycat, didn't know debian installer was so smart.
2083 [21:41:10] <greycat> apparently it's like documented or something? I don't know; I honestly never read all the text on those screens. it says "enter root password" so I do.
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2093 [21:46:22] <havenstance> I can assure you it never said a word about that, it asked for a root password, I gave it one, it asked for a username and password I gave it one. It never mentioned that it wouldn't install sudo or create the sudoers file. Now that I've figure out how to do both it isn't bad, just kind of a minor annoyance, but I suspect this may be something with the .iso I downloaded. But it doesn't make sense to create a root account with
2094 [21:46:22] <havenstance> no password, that seems like a huge security flaw to me
2095 [21:46:59] <greycat> If you want sudo, just install it. It will create a default sudoers file.
2096 [21:47:34] <greycat> And "no password" on the root account means that you CANNOT log into it with a password, because no password exists -- it is NOT an empty password, where you just hit enter and you're in.
2097 [21:47:45] <havenstance> ahhhh okay
2098 [21:47:59] <havenstance> thanks for that clarification lol I was like wait so a blank pw so anyone can just login with su
2099 [21:48:19] <havenstance> that was my ignorance then, thanks for the direction tho greycat I did get it working :)
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2103 [21:52:22] <jhutchins_wk> havenstance: It's a good idea to get into the habit of using su - instead of just su. There's a kludge in most linux distros these days that applies root's environment, but if you hit a system where that doesn't happen you can wreak havock on your homedir.
2104 [21:52:41] <havenstance> okay
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2106 [21:52:52] <jhutchins_wk> havenstance: su - <user> is handy if you need to check <user's> mail or test something.
2107 [21:53:05] <havenstance> yeah like I said this was my ignorance so I apologize for that guys, I read the documentation and it's working now
2108 [21:53:32] <havenstance> I guess I just didn't understand the reasoning behind it but after seeing it in action it makes sense that way only the people you grant sudo to can use it if you even install it
2109 [21:53:33] <greycat> Bleh.
2110 [21:53:46] <greycat> I completely and thoroughly disagree with using "su -" out of habit as your default.
2111 [21:53:58] <greycat> It's like you don't trust yourself.
2112 [21:55:08] <jhutchins_wk> I remember the days before the kludge and seeing many people mess up because of that.
2113 [21:55:41] <greycat> Mess up *what*?
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2117 [21:57:26] <jhutchins_wk> file ownership/permissions, not having the right path, not doing what they thought they were doing. Why do you think the kludge is there in the first place?
2118 [21:58:21] <greycat> I don't know what you think is this "kludge" -- changing $PATH?
2119 [21:58:24] <greycat> Changing $HOME?
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2124 [22:00:46] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Testing for when su is called without an argument and applying the - behavior.
2125 [22:01:02] <greycat> It does not do that. I would not WANT it to do that. What do you believe it is doing?
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2127 [22:01:27] <moses> I need to learn unix very quickly by sitting on one of the distros, what is the best for learning? I have ubuntu, centOS, debian, fedora, CoreOS, or freeBSD. Thoughts?
2128 [22:01:58] <fysa> one that breaks often
2129 [22:02:02] <fysa> like archlinux ;)
2130 [22:02:03] <greycat> I just tested right now, in fact. I exported FOO=bar; and then I ran su with no arguments. And the resulting shell still has FOO set to bar and exported.
2131 [22:02:08] <fysa> use lots of AUR packages
2132 [22:02:16] <greycat> So, it is NOT using the "-" behavior which nukes the environment.
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2135 [22:04:22] <greycat> Another thing to note is that "su" is not defined by POSIX or any other standards. You get what you get. On Debian, it changes PATH and HOME by default. On Red Hat, I believe, it does not; that may be what you are comparing it to.
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2137 [22:04:41] <greycat> On HP-UX 10 (just tested), it changes PATH and clears HOME to the empty string for some reason.
2138 [22:06:08] <greycat> The reason I strongly dislike "su -" (without a username, implying root) is that it clears my carefully hand-crafted environment variables. So I get the default behavior for things like less (which is to clear away the man page I was just reading and restore the previous junk on the terminal), which is not what I want.
2139 [22:06:09] <jhutchins_wk> Interesting. That's the point though, if you want the "-" behavior, you should use it.
2140 [22:06:35] <greycat> I do sometimes use "su - username" to get that particular user's environment, but never root's.
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2144 [22:08:02] <greycat> I don't know how people stand that behavior, personally. If I need to read a man page as root, then I want to still see the man page on the screen while I'm typing the next command.
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2148 [22:09:43] <fysa> amen .. scroll lock should pause the buffer but give you a couple of lines to type into the shell buffer ;)
2149 [22:09:49] <fysa> shell input
2150 [22:10:45] <greycat> so, I've had export LESS=-X in my personal shell environment for decades, and when something like sudo or su - nukes that, I become sad.
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2154 [22:15:01] <jhutchins_wk> I work on enough different systems (currently ~1500) that I've found it easier to adapt to the defaults - which can be a bit confusing if you have multiple releases and distros.
2155 [22:15:27] <greycat> Was I right in remembering that Red Hat is the one that does what you seem to dislike intensely?
2156 [22:15:29] <jhutchins_wk> Still, I got tired of doing extensive customizations, then not being able to rely on them because I was on another machine.
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2160 [22:17:31] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I'm not sure, the CentOS man page seems to suggest it does not. Maybe it's been removed.
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2162 [22:18:06] * jhutchins_wk rummages around for an actual RH box...
2163 [22:18:35] <greycat> Near as I can tell, your experience was from something that didn't change HOME and PATH.
2164 [22:19:40] <jhutchins_wk> Interesting, manpage on rh7 says "for backwards compatibility su defaults to not change ..."
2165 [22:19:47] <jhutchins_wk> So maybe it's been removed.
2166 [22:20:47] <jhutchins_wk> I would speculate that possibly Ubuntu and Mandrake were distros that implemented that.
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2170 [22:28:08] <rant> greycat: thats good to know. I wasn't aware of the -X or the su thing. Sometimes I like the behavior of clearing the manpages and getting my terminal's buffer back, other times not.
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2172 [22:29:05] <greycat> Yeah, I get that. With text editors, I'm fine with getting the shell history back instead of seeing the file I just edited. But with man pages, I usually don't commit the page to memory and then write -- I just find the right section, then need to keep it on screen while I write.
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2174 [22:30:16] <rant> greycat: I just tested that behavior, how come when I did export LESS='' it didnt revert back on that shell?
2175 [22:30:19] <jhutchins_wk> I usually just open the manpage in another console/terminal.
2176 [22:31:01] <greycat> rant: not sure what you tested, exactly
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2178 [22:31:28] <greycat> Especially if you're inside screen.
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2180 [22:31:59] <rant> greycat: I did export LESS=-X (I'd typed it without any quotes) then man man, and exited, it kept the manpage onscreen, then did export LESS='' amd did man man again and it still stayed on screen and it was in a new tab I'd just opened in mate-terminal no screen
2181 [22:32:19] <rant> ofc another new tab wiped the manpage..
2182 [22:32:30] <greycat> maybe mate-terminal doesn't have the save/restore thing, or who knows
2183 [22:32:43] * rant tests on tty1
2184 [22:32:53] <jhutchins_wk> rant: echo $LESS
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2187 [22:33:49] <rant> yeah did the same thing on tty1 and echo $LESS returned only a newline
2188 [22:34:06] <rant> well a blank line
2189 [22:34:20] <greycat> in rxvt or xterm with "LESS= man man" I get the save/restore thing, but inside screen inside rxvt, I do not
2190 [22:34:24] <rant> seems odd, I'd think clearing the var would reset it
2191 [22:34:45] <rant> is there another way like deleting the var that may work?
2192 [22:35:02] <greycat> 'unset LESS' but it should be identical to setting to the empty string
2193 [22:35:24] <rant> just wondering if I can set something up to enable/disable this behavior easily.. like perhaps a seperate man command that works differently
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2195 [22:35:56] <rant> yeah unset doesn't revert it back to clearing the manpage either even on tty1
2196 [22:36:37] <rant> like if I set the default behavior to -X then make a cman or something that clears on exit
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2198 [22:37:21] <greycat> LESS= man "$@"
2199 [22:37:48] <rant> I think I may just go with the -X anyhow, but was just curious about unsetting it and why it seems to not work without starting a new session
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2201 [22:38:12] <greycat> probably something has put that terminal into an odd state and reset(1) may undo it, or not, who knows...
2202 [22:38:37] <rant> I'll try again quoting the -X too see if that makes a difference
2203 [22:39:14] <greycat> it shouldn't
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2207 [22:41:26] <Reventlov> Hi
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2209 [22:41:51] <Reventlov> Can I install an old package (gcc 4.6, wheezy), in stretch ?
2210 [22:42:06] <greycat> Sometimes.
2211 [22:42:27] <greycat> Simpler things will typically work. More complex things with lots of dependencies could be tricky.
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2213 [22:42:54] <Reventlov> I want to compile linux headers for my kernel (fixed kernel because it has to be the same than the dom0)
2214 [22:43:08] <Reventlov> (i.e. linux-headers-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 )
2215 [22:43:32] <greycat> The kernel headers are produced when the kernel is configured.
2216 [22:43:40] <greycat> Or maybe when it's built. I am not sure which.
2217 [22:44:21] <greycat> If you're running an actual Debian kernel, just get the matching Debian headers package, and that's it.
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2219 [22:45:59] <Reventlov> I can't, because it needs gcc, etc.
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2221 [22:46:06] <Reventlov> linux-headers-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 : Depends: linux-compiler-gcc-4.6-x86 but it is not going to be installed
2222 [22:46:15] <Reventlov> Do you know scripts to get the whole tree of dependencies?
2223 [22:46:25] <greycat> On stretch? It's called "apt".
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2225 [22:46:46] <Reventlov> greycat: apt does not work.
2226 [22:46:49] <Reventlov> >linux-headers-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 : Depends: linux-compiler-gcc-4.6-x86 but it is not going to be installed
2227 [22:46:52] <greycat> But that implies that you have actual repositories that CONTAIN the dependencies, which, if this is coming from snapshots instead of a repo, apt would not be able to do.
2228 [22:47:19] <greycat> Did you have to pull this out of snapshots, or is it current in wheezy, or some backports repo?
2229 [22:47:38] <Reventlov> so I guess i'll have to add the wheezy repos to my apt list
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2261 [23:10:05] <de-facto> Hey Guys, currently setting up partitions in netinstall, how can I get the installer to honor my size settings? e.g. when I put in 100 MB it ends up as 98.6 MB ?!
2262 [23:10:26] <de-facto> should i specify it in byte?
2263 [23:10:27] <greycat> It uses your hardware's block sizes.
2264 [23:11:02] <de-facto> hmm which would be multiple of which block size usually?
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2266 [23:11:38] <GNU\colossus> either 512 bytes or 4096 bytes (there are other variants, but they are _really_ uncommon)
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2268 [23:12:33] <de-facto> what does this mean? "the free space starts from (0,0.34) and ends at (10433,84,39)"
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2271 [23:13:44] <de-facto> 100 MB is both dividable by 512 or 4096
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2274 [23:15:22] <de-facto> even if i specify it in bytes it ends up at 103.8 MB ?!
2275 [23:15:53] <de-facto> is there another way to specify sizes, or would i need to boot another distro for partitioning properly?
2276 [23:16:48] <greycat> replaced-url
2277 [23:18:02] <de-facto> it should be possible to align at MegaByte (1024*1024) boundaries, right?
2278 [23:18:28] <greycat> If you're seeing starting/ending points in triples, then you're seeing C/H/S so no.
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2284 [23:24:51] <de-facto> how do i set the "K" flag for a partition?
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2286 [23:26:53] <de-facto> it seems the installer would not allow to toggle boot flags ...
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2290 [23:28:53] <de-facto> I cant remember that i ever had so much trouble partitioning with earlier installers
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2293 [23:31:19] <de-facto> how can i toggle the bootable flag? Enter does not work, Space does not work
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2302 [23:35:27] <de-facto> it seems d-i is not useable in stretch 9.5 netinstall, I will try to partition with another distro :(
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