People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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79 [01:04:12] <masona> hello
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83 [01:05:22] <dvs> oi!
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88 [01:06:29] <masona> which one use centos7.5.1840 os? i gone to centos channal and nobody there.
89 [01:06:52] <dvs> no one uses it here.
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92 [01:07:00] <blackflow> what's centos?
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95 [01:07:10] <dvs> a candy?
96 [01:08:22] <masona> it s noway,cause i must use it for work.
97 [01:08:56] <awal1> masona, what is centos?
98 [01:09:13] <awal1> a candy as dvs says?
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101 [01:10:11] <masona> awal1,a redhat linux version
102 [01:10:11] <rant> its a derivative of RHEL
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105 [01:10:45] <pantato> does the debian package for qemu not generate a vfio-pci.cfg ? I'm not seeing any vfio config file anywhere on my system. Not sure where to create it
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107 [01:10:53] <awal1> i know, just kidding
108 [01:11:02] <awal1> masona
109 [01:11:11] <awal1> !centos
110 [01:11:15] <dpkg> CentOS (Community ENTerprise Operating System) is a rebuild of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux RPMs by the community. replaced-url
111 [01:11:41] <masona> awal1 :)
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113 [01:12:11] <pantato> sudo update-initramfs -u
114 [01:12:14] <pantato> woops
115 [01:12:40] <quantum> I have a basic filesystem in an embedded device where I want to find a certain directory.
116 [01:12:51] <quantum> Can't install anything like mlocate.
117 [01:13:24] <masona> i wanna uninstall GNOME,but i cant do it.
118 [01:13:52] <blackflow> quantum: does `find` work?
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120 [01:14:27] <quantum> I've never been able to figure that out. Was just trying to sort something with ls and grep.
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122 [01:14:49] <awal1> masona, this is debian. we dont know how centos works/is built
123 [01:14:52] <masona> i type yum groupremove "GNOME"
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126 [01:15:22] <awal1> dpkg: non debian
127 [01:15:25] <dpkg> wish i knew, awal1
128 [01:15:29] <blackflow> quantum: well what about find / -type d -name that-directory-name ?
129 [01:15:38] <masona> awal1 ok!
130 [01:15:56] <quantum> Ah, machine just hung up on me...
131 [01:16:36] <blackflow> how rude!
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133 [01:16:46] <quantum> find: paths must precede expression: /
134 [01:17:37] <quantum> Yes, so undiplomatic of it...
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139 [01:18:33] <blackflow> quantum: did you type it exactly as I typed it above?
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141 [01:18:44] <blackflow> with proper directory name of course
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147 [01:22:01] <quantum> blackflow: Yep, copy/pasted. (except that-dir)
148 [01:22:26] <blackflow> quantum: that's not debian, is it?
149 [01:22:54] <quantum> Er, no...
150 [01:23:02] <quantum> Ubongo.
151 [01:23:11] <blackflow> welp.
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251 [03:03:32] <nekoseam> Well that worked
252 [03:03:39] <nekoseam> But why
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255 [03:05:25] <mefistofeles> nekoseam: what did?
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258 [03:06:41] <nekoseam> mefistofeles, ...everything
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261 [03:07:41] <mefistofeles> nekoseam: ok...
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329 [04:17:03] <mns> where do systemd service files go when they are created by the user ?
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345 [04:25:33] <admininfo> hello
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365 [04:38:55] <rant> mns: man 5 systemd.unit
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376 [04:45:34] <rant> mns: /lib/systemd/system are services installed by packages, /run/systemd/system/ are those created at runtime (take precedence over the previous dir), /etc/systemd/system/ are those enabled by systemctl (take precedence over previous dirs) and for users its much the same /usr/lib/systemd/user/, /run/systemd/users/, ~/.config/systemd/user/ or ~/.local/share/systemd/user/
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401 [05:03:06] <mns> rant: thanks.
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419 [05:16:03] <rant> mns: no worries, systemd is one thing we have very well documented, replaced-url
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434 [05:24:11] <annadane> see also the freedesktop administrators guide to systemd
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436 [05:24:57] <annadane> replaced-url
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440 [05:25:54] <annadane> er well not the best link in terms of hyperlinking but basically just look at replaced-url
441 [05:26:20] <annadane> and i guess that whole page is good
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460 [05:43:44] <neo_> hi people, i just finished a clean installation of stretch on an LG gram 15z96 and my wifi is not working, I mean the driver is installed, the card is on, but it cannot recognize any wifi network
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463 [05:44:36] <neo_> the module iwlwifi is loaded
464 [05:45:52] <neo_> my graphic card is Intel Corporation Wireless 7265 [8086:095a] (rev 59)
465 [05:46:04] <mns> rant: yeah its good documentation. Thanks for pointing me to it. I have a script that I call via a timer. Where does the output from that script go ? I couldn't figure that out yet from the documentation.
466 [05:46:13] <s0nou572> hi, can you show us the result of the ifconfig command?
467 [05:47:01] <COOurb> VeraCrypt for Debian - is it exists?
468 [05:47:11] <COOurb> Or should I use ZuluSomething
469 [05:47:14] <COOurb> ?
470 [05:47:59] <neo_> s0nou... ifconfig is deprecated in stretch and i am just trying to learn to us IP instead
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472 [05:49:22] <COOurb> neo_: ip address
473 [05:49:25] <COOurb> this
474 [05:49:49] <COOurb> Also, there should be network-manager
475 [05:50:04] <COOurb> What Windowmanager do you use?
476 [05:51:49] <neo_> COOurb: ok
477 [05:52:24] <neo_> 2: wlp1s0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group default qlen 1000
478 [05:52:24] <neo_> link/ether a4:02:b9:3c:9e:f2 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
479 [05:52:26] <COOurb> Configuring WiFi is my next task
480 [05:52:33] <COOurb> ha
481 [05:52:39] <COOurb> your wifiadapter is down
482 [05:52:47] <COOurb> ifup wlp1s0
483 [05:53:16] <COOurb> but I'm kinda noob, so perhaps it's working in some other way
484 [05:55:05] <neo_> I see, but the icon on taskbar say it is on :/
485 [05:55:39] <neo_> sudo ifup wlp1s0
486 [05:55:39] <neo_> ifup: /etc/network/interfaces:13: option with empty value
487 [05:55:39] <neo_> ifup: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces"
488 [05:55:48] <COOurb> ok
489 [05:55:55] <COOurb> network-manager here
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491 [05:57:01] <mns> what does /etc/network/interfaces say at line 13 ?
492 [05:57:18] <neo_> i am checking
493 [05:57:24] <COOurb> mns: I think this is network-manager
494 [05:57:52] <COOurb> because I Hade same issue but with wired connection
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496 [05:58:19] <COOurb> is there any "rescan" button in taskbar button menu?
497 [05:58:23] <neo_> line 13 say: wpa-ssid
498 [05:58:36] <neo_> whitout a name for essid
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503 [06:00:54] <s0nou572> maybe this can help you --> replaced-url
504 [06:01:33] <neo_> I am going to check s0nou572
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506 [06:02:37] <s0nou572> right!
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523 [06:21:46] <BoBeR182> hellow I am on buster and there is a package that is in stable and in sid but not in testing
524 [06:21:53] <BoBeR182> how do I install it the safest way possible?
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526 [06:23:32] <rant> well you either install stable, or you go to #debian-next on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net) or you just install the stable package.. either way by using buster you've made your situation unsupportable by us here
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528 [06:24:41] <rant> it should be more clearly stated in places where people get testing/unstable that you are declaring yourself a dev/tester and giving up your claim to the majority of the end-user support options
529 [06:24:51] <dgriffi> can anyone here build wxFormBuilder on Debian 9?
530 [06:25:00] <rant> and telling us that you can solve these kinds of issues yourself
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553 [06:43:31] <COOurb> have problem with xrdp
554 [06:43:46] <COOurb> When login from Windows - blanc screen
555 [06:44:00] <rant> dgriffi: can I? probably? will or would I? no. I'd install an already built version from our repos. If you have a specific support question related to building something you should ask it
556 [06:44:09] *** Quits: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
557 [06:44:18] <rant> s/probably?/probably./
558 [06:44:32] *** Quits: mauz555 (~mauz555@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
559 [06:46:00] <rant> COOurb: sounds like your session is empty, my ability to help with this is fairly limited as I don't use windows or xrdp and is pretty much to tell you to read the log, and put something in whatever session file it uses. However my advice from things I do use would be to try something else like X2go or Winswitch
560 [06:47:13] <COOurb> ok, will try other rdp soft
561 [06:47:58] <rant> COOurb: both X2go and Winswitch work well right out of the box. Do you actually need RDP or you just want remote desktop? do you want to export a running X session or a new session? etc.
562 [06:48:35] <rant> I installed x2go-server and didn't configure anyhing and have been using it for quite some time to view the local X session
563 [06:48:45] <COOurb> what difference between RDP and remote desktop?
564 [06:49:31] <rant> COOurb: when I say remote desktop I am referring to all such technologies that allow you to view graphical interfaces remotely, VNC, RDP, NX, etc..
565 [06:50:12] <rant> COOurb: RDP is proprietary and has some nice features but unless you know o these features and know you need them, you probably don't and would probably be happier with something else
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567 [06:50:54] <COOurb> just robust remote desktop to use linux machine without it's own dispplay,kb mouse etc
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569 [06:53:25] <COOurb> haha, only client
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578 [06:56:01] <rant> COOurb: across a local network or across the internet?
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580 [06:56:16] <COOurb> local
581 [06:56:36] <COOurb> But I need to learn how to use all this stuff and over internet too
582 [06:56:36] <rant> well you can simply use VNC for that and need not even have and X server installed
583 [06:57:02] <rant> VNC's main drawbacks are thigns like lack of proper security.. but on a LAN this is less a concern
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587 [06:58:38] <COOurb> already installed winswitch
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591 [06:59:38] <rant> winswitch can use anything.. VNC, RDP, NX, Xpra.. etc
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593 [07:00:17] <rant> its just a real dumbed down frontend that makes things like just taking any app or desktop session and sliding it from one machine to the next simple
594 [07:00:30] <rant> however I personally found it more confusing than it probably should be :P
595 [07:02:16] <rant> you may fare better with it as you're coming from a newbie perspective.. which is what it was geared toward
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609 [07:11:27] <COOurb> I can't find x2goserver
610 [07:12:24] <rant> COOurb: yes only the client is in debian, you have to install the server from upstream
611 [07:12:34] <COOurb> from what?
612 [07:12:36] <rant> they have deb packages though
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614 [07:12:46] <COOurb> ok, I should download it
615 [07:12:53] <rant> COOurb: upstream is what you call the fol who actually develop something :P
616 [07:12:56] <COOurb> why not include it?
617 [07:13:11] <rant> I think its not DFSG compliant
618 [07:13:17] <rant> don't recall exactly why
619 [07:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1569
620 [07:14:04] <rant> lemme check on that I have it installed on here
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622 [07:15:34] <rant> yeah I guess I just downloaded it
623 [07:16:19] <rant> they have a repo for it, but I dont have it on here so I must've just downloaded the package
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625 [07:18:14] <COOurb> some wierd instructions about adding their key to "trusted" or something
626 [07:18:18] <COOurb> replaced-url
627 [07:18:58] <rant> the nice things about x2go are that its secure (uses ssh), zero coniguration, supports things like sound and such that RDP does.. but it only supports actual locally running logins I believe.. i.e. you have to have a user on the server machine actually logged into a running desktop
628 [07:19:31] <rant> COOurb: yeah you can do it that way if you want, for ease of upgrades and integration with the package manager or you could just grab the package and install it manually
629 [07:19:44] <COOurb> but it shows errors
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634 [07:20:24] <COOurb> gpg: failed to start the dirmngr '/usr/bin/dirmngr':
635 [07:20:39] <COOurb> c'mon, wtf is this?
636 [07:20:45] *** Quits: Strife89 (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
637 [07:20:46] <COOurb> Why I can't just run this sht?
638 [07:20:54] <rant> heh
639 [07:21:16] <COOurb> it is error when I tried to add Key
640 [07:21:26] <rant> COOurb: this is from running the command "apt-key adv --recv-keys --keyserver keys.gnupg.net E1F958385BFE2B6E" ?
641 [07:21:28] <COOurb> ou, they have it even for baikal
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643 [07:21:32] <COOurb> yes
644 [07:21:59] <COOurb> so, I'm here replaced-url
645 [07:22:07] <COOurb> where is *.deb files?
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648 [07:23:01] <rant> replaced-url
649 [07:24:02] <COOurb> so where it is located?
650 [07:24:19] <COOurb> replaced-url
651 [07:24:25] <rant> replaced-url
652 [07:24:37] <rant> is the server package for stretch/amd64
653 [07:25:25] *** Quits: BoBeR182 (~BoBeR182@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
654 [07:25:31] <rant> COOurb: yes, for your info, packages on repos are in the /pool/ dir and not sorted by dist.. the dist files tell the packag managers which versions belong to which dists
655 [07:25:44] *** Joins: BoBeR182 (~BoBeR182@replaced-ip )
656 [07:26:12] <rant> manually looking in /pool/ its hard to tell which version belongs to your dist.. because all releases or oldstable/stable/tesing/sid etc will be in there
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658 [07:26:36] <COOurb> heh, i saw with xsession in name
659 [07:26:57] <COOurb> I need remote desktop with GUI
660 [07:26:58] <COOurb> so
661 [07:27:06] <rant> yeah.. idk I have all those installed but idk how cause I dont have the repo configured
662 [07:27:23] <COOurb> so, does it work as service?
663 [07:27:49] <rant> COOurb: in all honesty I have nfc how it works, I just installed it and it magically worked so I never looked around :P
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665 [07:28:03] <COOurb> heh
666 [07:28:11] <rant> anytime someone is logged into X I can connect via ssh to it
667 [07:28:16] <rant> using an x2goclient
668 [07:28:31] <rant> it was so damn easy I didnt have to learn how it worked
669 [07:28:31] <COOurb> So you never had wish to stop it to prevent others to access to your PC?
670 [07:29:07] <rant> well I have my ssh setup to only use keys, on a non-standard port... so unless someone has a valid key its not really an issue
671 [07:29:21] <rant> it uses SSH to authenticate and tunnel the connection
672 [07:29:41] <rant> that much I DO know
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677 [07:30:26] <rant> thats one thing I like about x2go and xpra, they work over ssh natively with no complex configuration
678 [07:30:47] <rant> so I need only forward a port for ssh to use it over the internet
679 [07:31:16] <rant> in my experience x2go works even better and is even easier than xpra alone
680 [07:32:20] <rant> you may want to setup lightdm to autologin or use nodm if you use x2go.. cause as far as I know it only works with an actual running X session from a locally logged in user
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685 [07:35:40] <rant> I mostly only use this kinda crap to do remote support for my father
686 [07:36:12] <rant> cause he is or acts too dumb to follow instructions sometimes when he has problems or can't explain what he's seeing
687 [07:36:45] <rant> x2go has been wonderful for this
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689 [07:37:20] <rant> my only concern was as you mentioned, privacy concerns.. but since it uses ssh if nothing else you can start/stop ssh to prevent login
690 [07:37:27] <COOurb> ok, i have add that repo
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692 [07:38:23] <COOurb> Need to know how PKI in linux works
693 [07:38:57] <rant> you mean like ssh keys?
694 [07:39:09] <COOurb> no, I mean adding this repo
695 [07:39:24] <rant> ah, yeah gpg isn't my strong suit
696 [07:39:34] <COOurb> because dirmngr, which actually manages keys and stuff, was not installed
697 [07:39:38] <rant> I prefer the packaged keyrings which this repo has
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699 [07:39:51] <rant> makes it simpler :P
700 [07:39:53] <COOurb> keyrings - dunno what is that
701 [07:39:59] *** Quits: stu_meat (~stu_meat@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
702 [07:40:20] <rant> well mostt debian repos have keyring packages that provide the repo's signing keys
703 [07:40:21] *** Quits: czart_ (~czart@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
704 [07:40:28] <rant> so you don have to piss with apt-key or gpg
705 [07:40:36] <rant> you just install the keyring package
706 [07:40:39] *** Quits: superslacker (~superslac@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
707 [07:41:12] <rant> x2go's repo has one, as do the debian official repos, backports, deb-multimedia, etc
708 [07:41:19] *** Joins: skwingar_ (~skwingar@replaced-ip )
709 [07:41:37] <rant> replaced-url
710 [07:41:46] *** Joins: Kysia (~ananev@replaced-ip )
711 [07:41:50] <rant> that package provides the signing keys to verify the packages
712 [07:42:25] <COOurb> anyway, I noted this to read about it later
713 [07:43:21] <rant> well maybe thats outdated I see a newer one in that dir
714 [07:43:32] <rant> replaced-url
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716 [07:45:23] <COOurb> so, what is the best code editor in Debian?
717 [07:46:06] <COOurb> I use Notepad++ for every script stuff at Windows. But I can't find any proper at linux
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723 [07:48:02] <COOurb> yeeee
724 [07:48:05] <COOurb> works
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726 [07:48:15] <COOurb> I think you use share feature
727 [07:48:26] <COOurb> thre is separated session option
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739 [07:53:04] <rant> yeah I didn't look into it much as I said cause it just worked(tm)
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741 [07:53:14] <rant> was a real breeze to use
742 [07:53:32] <COOurb> But it doesn't restore saved session
743 [07:53:41] <COOurb> anyway, it fine
744 [07:54:01] <rant> well you could as I said setup nodm or lightdm with autologin or use a DE wih a session manager to address that
745 [07:54:03] <COOurb> and yes, it's service
746 [07:54:21] <COOurb> I already use lightdm
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749 [07:54:36] <rant> using an autologin with lightdm would keep everything running locally
750 [07:54:59] <rant> nodm is a lighter option as it ONLY supports autologin
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752 [07:55:18] <COOurb> autoligin?
753 [07:55:40] <rant> yes, where it doesn't show a graphical login, just goes directly to the desktop
754 [07:56:02] <COOurb> so it uses certificates?
755 [07:56:02] <rant> you'd want that if you wanted to run headless and just keep your stuff running for remote access on your lan
756 [07:56:38] <rant> I'm not sure.. I think it just bypasses PAM altogether and doesnt authenticate
757 [07:56:57] <rant> you'd still auth via x2go using ssh for remote login
758 [07:57:12] <rant> just your headless linux box would automatically start and login to a desktop session
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760 [07:57:35] <rant> then you wouldnt need a session manager to restart apps, they'd just stay running when you logout of x2go
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764 [08:01:04] <rant> using vncserver would've done this too as it works like a standalone xserver and once you start it as a user, it'd stay running even when not connected.. but its not nearly as robust as something like x2go.. and has virtually no security
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766 [08:01:45] <rant> you can use vnc without even having an xserver installed
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771 [08:03:54] <rant> I like x2go and xpra the best personally they both have the security of ssh, and they are very fast even on poor connections
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773 [08:04:26] <rant> x2go seems to be the best overall of all the plethora of options
774 [08:05:22] <rant> they did a good job at making something real easy to use with all the best features of things like nx, xpra, rdp, etc
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778 [08:06:51] <rant> only part I thought could improve was their applet thingy.. I'd like to see something that can popup a dialog and allow manual auth of a connection requiring a user to click "allow" when someone tries to connect and makes it so they can easily see and manage connection
779 [08:07:12] <rant> and I couldnt figure out how to use that applet they got
780 [08:08:46] <rant> x0rfb which we had ages ago was the only thing I saw that made it real obvious by showing an icon that changes color, that someone was connected. It was just a simple way to export/share a running X over RFB. Idk what ever happened to that package
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784 [08:09:28] <rant> though back in the day gnome had simple desktop sharing tha you could enable and use that sort of manual auth..
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786 [08:10:05] <rant> for simple remote support thats the best option in my opinion, to have to manually click to authorize a remote connection
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789 [08:10:58] <COOurb> yep, no spying
790 [08:11:13] <rant> COOurb: do you work in IT?
791 [08:11:19] <COOurb> Kind of
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794 [08:11:32] <rant> just seem way more knowledgable than most newbies :P
795 [08:11:51] <COOurb> lead inforamtion Security Engineer
796 [08:11:57] <COOurb> lead and alone
797 [08:12:03] <rant> ah.. that explains it
798 [08:12:17] <COOurb> Well, in fact i'm Windows user
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800 [08:12:22] <rant> as your knowledge did seem largely security centric
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803 [08:12:40] <rant> and as you can probably tell I'm no security guru :P
804 [08:12:50] <COOurb> nope, my job actually is tech support and anykey
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806 [08:13:12] <COOurb> So I wanna get new knoledge to escape that job
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809 [08:13:41] <rant> yeah, you come to the right place... debian and freenode is a great learning platform
810 [08:13:47] <ivanhoe> I have an application that puts out a Gtk-Message saying that it can't load the canberra-gtk-module. I know I can install that, but I rather want that it doesn't try to attempt to load the module in the first place. I managed to do that by setting /org/gnome/settings-daemon/plugins/xsettings/active to false via dconf. I don't want to make this a system wide setting so I set DCONF_PROFILE to set this locally. With set DCONF_PROFILE dconf
811 [08:13:47] <ivanhoe> read shows that active is false but my application shows the Gtk-Message again. Any idea why that is?
812 [08:13:51] <COOurb> Also I have several projects, so I think server side on Linux would be fine
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817 [08:15:43] <rant> ivanhoe: try #debian-gnome on irc.oftc.net or a gnome specific channel, you already demonstrated more knowledge of the gears behing gnome than most folk here probably have :P
818 [08:16:33] <ivanhoe> ok, I'll try rant :)
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820 [08:17:28] <rant> I been using gnome for ages and been using mate ever since gnome3 came out, and I only vaguely follow what you just said :P
821 [08:17:45] <rant> really gnome or kde speciic type questions don't do well here
822 [08:18:23] <rant> not to mention you got a couple hours yet before there is much activity here
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829 [08:19:37] <rant> since you're talking real advanced GTK/dconf stuff.. you really need to find some gnome developer kinda people
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831 [08:19:48] <ivanhoe> omw
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833 [08:20:50] <rant> I'm amazed I finally managed to figure out how to roll back some of the more annoying gtk3 "features"
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838 [08:23:30] <ivanhoe> I'm not really familiar with gtk. It has taken me some time to research this far, but it's hard to find more information, especially since if you search for it on the internet you mainly get info telling you to just install the module.
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841 [08:24:48] <pingfloyd> ivanhoe: sounds typical of gnome
842 [08:25:27] <rant> yes near as I can tell even gnome and gtk devs are not familiar with gtk :P
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844 [08:25:40] <rant> if they were, you wouldn't have crap working the way it does
845 [08:25:47] <pingfloyd> gnome basically devolved into a DE that is more bloated, with less configuration options.
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847 [08:26:12] <rant> I just wanted to change scrollbar seeking and transparency and even those two features were implemented in two totally different ways
848 [08:26:16] <pingfloyd> like try gnome 1 sometime and see the difference in functionality and resource usage
849 [08:26:25] <rant> yes, exactly.. it was a step backward in usability
850 [08:26:36] <pingfloyd> but hey, we have more animations!
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852 [08:27:03] <rant> "animate this with your lips" I say
853 [08:27:09] <pingfloyd> to try to impress windows users on terms they're used to
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936 [09:29:47] <likcoras> Are there any good utilities that would help me rename a lot of images that displays the image being renamed?
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944 [09:33:38] <blackflow> likcoras: something scripted with imagemagick? can you specify what you mean exactly?
945 [09:34:14] <likcoras> I have a bunch of images named 1.png, 2.png, ..., I'd like to manually classify them based on the image contents.
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949 [09:35:39] <rant> likcoras: I use geeqie for that, has decent renaming features. also has tagging features you could use for the more advanced need of classification
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951 [09:35:59] <likcoras> will look into, thanks!
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953 [09:36:22] <rant> I prefer gqview, and compile it from upstream since it was replaced with geeqie in debian
954 [09:36:32] <rant> but they're pretty much the same
955 [09:37:20] <rant> it can also manage collections, do similarity comparison and such
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957 [09:37:56] <rant> real clean customizable interface with support for external apps
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981 [09:47:36] <GreenCrack> hey, i can't boot my ssd do to grub rescue, i have uefi and wants to repair grub by doing> sudo mount /dev/sdX# /mnt; sudo grub-install /dev/sdX#
982 [09:47:53] <GreenCrack> but then it gives me Installing for i386-pc platform.
983 [09:47:53] <GreenCrack> grub-install: error: failed to get canonical path of `overlay'.
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987 [09:49:26] <rant> there is a great deal wrong with your explaination of your issue, not the least of which is you don't mention chroot
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989 [09:50:01] <rant> what is installed on the SSD and what are you using to do the rescue?
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993 [09:52:01] <GreenCrack> rant: debian 9, grub-efi
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996 [09:53:19] <GreenCrack> user@debian:~$ sudo chroot /mnt
997 [09:53:19] <GreenCrack> chroot: failed to run command ‘/bin/bash’: No such file or directory
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999 [09:54:05] <blackflow> you shouldn't grub-install to # in sdX#, for starters. second, what's being mounted on /mnt?
1000 [09:54:49] <GreenCrack> /dev/sdc2 where grub is
1001 [09:55:32] <rant> yes and I am apparently wrong about needing to chroot.. thats only if you need to update-grub
1002 [09:55:40] <blackflow> well you don't chroot into that, you chroot into your system root, with properly mounted /boot, so grub-install can pick up uuids from mountes systems for the menu
1003 [09:56:20] <GreenCrack> i have encrypted the soilddrive with luks
1004 [09:56:24] <blackflow> and... yeah... update-grub, not grub-install, my bad too. thing is, what exactly needs fixing? I was thinking about the menu, that's why chroot was mentioned
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1007 [09:57:31] <GreenCrack> when i start up the com, it says: error no such device grub rescue
1008 [09:59:04] <blackflow> did you install grub manually or did the installer do it? did you select really sdX# or just sdX for grub installation? Note that grub has TWO parts. the loader that gets grub-install'ed, and the menu stored along with the kernel and initramfs, in /boot.
1009 [09:59:34] <blackflow> the loader is what goes into MBR or in your case I guess something goes to ESP, I'm not all too familiar with how grub interacts with ESP
1010 [10:00:07] <GreenCrack> the installer
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1013 [10:00:37] <blackflow> and the second question?
1014 [10:01:07] <blackflow> you should really _read_ what people are asking you when you ask for help. I ain't got time to waste and here I am trying to help you.
1015 [10:01:19] <GreenCrack> it automatically installed grub without me having to do anything, it was not a problem until yesterday when i wanted to boot the computer again again
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1017 [10:02:53] <GreenCrack> =_=
1018 [10:03:43] <blackflow> the installer asks where to save the loader though. and do you have any other OS there, did windows perhaps break the loader?
1019 [10:04:11] <GreenCrack> i have not, and no the netinstall of debian 9 didn't ask
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1021 [10:04:33] <blackflow> replaced-url
1022 [10:04:47] <GreenCrack> IKR but it didn't
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1024 [10:04:58] <blackflow> there's also this: replaced-url
1025 [10:05:01] <rant> at the very least it asks would youu like to install it on the mbr.. like most things in debian its WIDHE compliant
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1030 [10:05:32] <GreenCrack> i just want to fix this problem so I can go back to my system
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1032 [10:05:48] <blackflow> but anyway, it worked, booted fine, and now it doesn't, correct? what changed? is there another OS on the disk or perhaps another disk in the same computer?
1033 [10:06:02] <blackflow> you first have to identify the problem, in order to fix it.
1034 [10:06:18] <GreenCrack> nope, it worked fine and then, it broke
1035 [10:06:34] <rant> GreenCrack: you sure you have not even aa thumbdrivve or something plugged in?
1036 [10:06:35] <GreenCrack> wait
1037 [10:06:56] <GreenCrack> it happened after i powered of the power, it resets my bios
1038 [10:06:59] <rant> because I banged my head of the wall before trying to fix grubb only to realize the broken grub was on a thuumbdrive I had plyugged in
1039 [10:07:04] <GreenCrack> should i take a look at the bios?
1040 [10:07:39] <blackflow> GreenCrack: I don't know if the installer _also_ sets up bios_grub partition, for EFI installations. I guess it's possible your BIOS is now trying legacy boot instead of EFI.
1041 [10:07:58] <GreenCrack> ok brb
1042 [10:07:59] <blackflow> for both to work, you need both an ESP and a bios_grub partition
1043 [10:08:00] <rant> was an oldd grrub on a USB drive not on my internal hdd that was generating the errors
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1045 [10:09:21] <blackflow> did they not say there's no other OS here? and now they left to check for legacy boot...
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1048 [10:09:38] <rant> heh
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1051 [10:10:43] <rant> yeah well like I said sometimes those things come up.. I didn't realize that one time I had a thumbdrive that was once used for an install or something that had a grub loader on it.. and I spent hours trying to fix my grub when it was fine, the bios was just loading one off that thumbdrive instead :P
1052 [10:12:05] <blackflow> heh :)
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1054 [10:13:10] <GreenCrack> nope
1055 [10:13:14] <GreenCrack> didn't work
1056 [10:13:43] <blackflow> GreenCrack: why did you leave for reboot? what other OS you have on that computer?
1057 [10:13:52] <GreenCrack> none
1058 [10:13:57] <blackflow> then why did you leave for reboot?
1059 [10:14:04] <GreenCrack> wanted to check the settings
1060 [10:14:16] <blackflow> what are you booted into now?
1061 [10:14:26] <GreenCrack> debian 9 live gnome
1062 [10:14:55] <blackflow> okay, from an usb stick?
1063 [10:15:40] <GreenCrack> yes
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1065 [10:16:23] <blackflow> GreenCrack: assuming your main disk is /dev/sda, can you pastebin the output of `parted /dev/sda unit mib print` ? As root. I think the live env has parted installed...
1066 [10:16:27] <GreenCrack> sd adaptar to be precice
1067 [10:16:47] <GreenCrack> command?
1068 [10:17:16] <blackflow> sorry, what is sd adaptar?
1069 [10:17:52] <GreenCrack> sd card yeah? adapter yeah? combined, i boot the debian live from it
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1071 [10:19:08] <blackflow> ah... no, I meant the MAIN disk, where the debian installation is. the one you're trying to fix. I'm guessing that's /dev/sda, and if it's not, please correc the above parted command, and please pastebin theoutput of that.
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1073 [10:20:17] <GreenCrack> sdc
1074 [10:20:41] <GreenCrack> command please? ++
1075 [10:21:13] <blackflow> it's given above..... parted /dev/sdc unit mib print
1076 [10:21:22] <blackflow> (as root)
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1078 [10:22:21] <GreenCrack> replaced-url
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1080 [10:22:50] <GreenCrack> keep in mind that i use luks encryption
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1086 [10:24:23] <blackflow> GreenCrack: so, sdc1 is the ESP, sdc2 is I'm guessing /boot and sdc3 is the LUKS container, right?
1087 [10:25:25] <GreenCrack> yes
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1090 [10:26:59] <blackflow> right, so, my knowledge of EFI is very scant. at least we got a bit more clear picture here about what you have and someone more knowledgeable in EFI might help. From what I know, though, there's no grub-install to be done here. with EFI, debian installs grub-efi into the ESP, but I'm not sure where to go next in terms of diagnosing this.
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1092 [10:30:28] <GreenCrack> wow i have two folders in /mnt/EFI (/dev/sdc1) one called debian and one called trisquel
1093 [10:30:57] <GreenCrack> /mnt/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi /mnt/EFI/trisquel/grubx64.efi
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1095 [10:33:42] <blackflow> GreenCrack: so if that is there, what's the _exact_ problem when you try to boot regularly? what's the exact message or can you imgur a photo of the screen? maybe your /boot is just broken? can you mount sdc2 and check if /mnt/grub/grub.cfg is there and whether the main entry has correct uuids?
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1116 [10:45:05] <GreenCrack> blackflow: //boot wasn't there but after trying to install grub with grub-install it appeared again blackflow
1117 [10:45:07] <GreenCrack> replaced-url
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1120 [10:46:24] <blackflow> GreenCrack: you ran grub-install how exactly? what parameter did you give it?
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1123 [10:47:23] <blackflow> and wth NASA... you work for NASA?
1124 [10:48:08] <blackflow> also, that grub menu means nothing without an output of `blkid`
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1134 [10:55:05] <qqqq2222> can anyone recommend an alternative to google translate?
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1156 [11:05:56] <ivanhoe> qqqq2222: depending on the language deepl.com is quite nice (it hasn't many languages)
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1159 [11:06:34] <fath0m> Hello. Could soembody help me fix an issue that I have with audio on Debian? I'm using testing right now, but it was the same on stable.
1160 [11:06:47] <petn-randall> !debian-next
1161 [11:06:51] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
1162 [11:06:53] <fath0m> My headphones stop working after reboot, I need to replug my headphones for them to work
1163 [11:07:03] <petn-randall> fath0m: testing support is in the channel above. ^^^
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1165 [11:07:35] <qqqq2222> anything offline ivanhoe?
1166 [11:07:38] <fath0m> it does ntoe matter the distro
1167 [11:07:46] <fath0m> it was the same on both debian testing and stable
1168 [11:07:56] <fath0m> ubuntu aswell, but that's basicalyl debian anyway
1169 [11:08:14] <petn-randall> fath0m: But you currently have testing installed, right?
1170 [11:08:20] <fath0m> yes, I Do
1171 [11:08:34] <petn-randall> fath0m: Then the support channel above is the right one.
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1173 [11:08:44] <fath0m> alright
1174 [11:08:46] <petn-randall> fath0m: Also, Ubuntu and Debian are *very* different.
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1176 [11:09:22] <fath0m> I need an invite
1177 [11:09:24] <fath0m> to join there
1178 [11:09:40] <SopaXT> For some reason, the Network Manager icon in my tray appears mangledc
1179 [11:09:45] <SopaXT> mangled*
1180 [11:10:03] <SopaXT> (I'm using Debian Stretch)
1181 [11:10:12] <ivanhoe> qqqq2222: no. Is google trans offline?
1182 [11:10:12] <petn-randall> fath0m: You didn't read the factoid to the end.
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1185 [11:10:58] <fath0m> oh shit I'm blind lmao
1186 [11:11:00] <fath0m> thank you :)
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1188 [11:11:17] <SopaXT> It looks as if the top row of pixels was moved to the bottom
1189 [11:11:36] <SopaXT> Here's a screenshot: replaced-url
1190 [11:11:43] <qqqq2222> no
1191 [11:11:49] <SopaXT> You can see that between the HexChat icon and my username, "Mark"
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1193 [11:12:00] <qqqq2222> but an offline translator would be better
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1201 [11:16:52] <jediofthecode> hello, Im having a bit of a problem with my networking. I am using a dell xps 13 with a killer wifi 1535, and the ath10k driver from backports, running on stretch 9.5. My wifi works perfectly, for about 20 minutes and then i have no internet connection, but it shows that I am still connected to the wifi.
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1203 [11:17:23] <jediofthecode> I couldn't find any similar reports of this issue on google, and am not even sure where to begin to debug this problem. When this happens, I still have an ip address assigned(or so my computer things i do)
1204 [11:18:17] <siraben> I'm on debian unstable, trying to install ohmyz.sh
1205 [11:18:27] <siraben> But I get a git error on git clone replaced-url
1206 [11:18:34] <siraben> "Unable to find remote helper for 'https'"
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1222 [11:24:30] <OS-15764-1> /msg NickServ REGISTER svetlana bags29@bigpond.com
1223 [11:24:39] <apollo13> OS-15764-1: that ended up public :)
1224 [11:24:54] <OS-15764-1> haha saw that
1225 [11:25:03] <OS-15764-1> serves me right for a cheap password
1226 [11:25:10] <apollo13> OS-15764-1: always do a /query NickServ
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1229 [11:26:42] <siraben> Why can't I Git clone HTTPS repos?
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1231 [11:28:32] <epicmetal> siraben: do you have ca-certificates installed
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1239 [11:31:11] <siraben> Oh I was setting in invalid certificate variable in my .profile
1240 [11:31:17] <siraben> s/in/an
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1245 [11:32:12] <f-a> hello, I am often confronted by a problem like this one replaced-url
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1256 [11:37:29] <jediofthecode> and it happened aain
1257 [11:37:29] <jediofthecode> this is basically using my system unusable. And it's not the router, as there are 7 other people in my office with laptops using wifi that don't have this issue
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1260 [11:38:11] <pingfloyd> f-a: change the mount options
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1265 [11:39:16] <Wooo> Hi
1266 [11:40:02] <blackflow> jediofthecode: sounds like some powersaving something gone wrong?
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1268 [11:40:06] <themill> jediofthecode: does doing things by IP address still work (say, ping 8.8.8.8 or going to replaced-url
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1271 [11:40:40] <f-a> pingfloyd: does that mean modifying /etc/fstab? or an option to mount?
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1275 [11:40:47] <pingfloyd> f-a: or at the command line
1276 [11:41:19] <pingfloyd> f-a: the option you're looking for uid= and possibly also gid=
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1278 [11:41:42] <gregor2> guys
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1283 [11:42:03] <pingfloyd> set that the match an ownership the invoking user can have the access
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1286 [11:42:22] <gregor2> Every Time I boot my machine I have to type xinput set-prop 8 280 -1 so the mouse is not accelerating.
1287 [11:42:23] <pingfloyd> for example uid=1000
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1289 [11:42:33] <gregor2> How can this be done automatically?
1290 [11:42:39] <pingfloyd> also mode= is another one to be aware of
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1295 [11:43:27] <pingfloyd> the main thing with fat is the entire filesystem is mounted with permissions as opposed to being file based since it doesn't support it.
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1299 [11:44:44] <pingfloyd> you can think of that as the bridge between an FS that has no concept of ownerships and permissions, and a unix-like environment that expects file perms and ownerships.
1300 [11:45:12] <pingfloyd> or a bridge between insanity and sanity
1301 [11:45:33] <f-a> hehe
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1303 [11:47:21] <jediofthecode> themill: no, nothing works by ip
1304 [11:47:31] <jediofthecode> themill: im using TLP btw.
1305 [11:47:42] <jediofthecode> themill: but, my laptop is plugged into power, and 100% charged
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1307 [11:48:19] <f-a> pingfloyd: sudo mount -o uid=f /dev/sdc penna/
1308 [11:48:28] <f-a> that did it, nice
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1311 [11:49:39] <themill> jediofthecode: looking through the logs around the time it stops working is likely to explain why. Disabling tlp as a test might be sensible too
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1313 [11:50:18] <siraben> What's a good way to do full system backups in Debian?
1314 [11:50:36] <siraben> Incremental as well
1315 [11:50:40] <jediofthecode> themill: alright, ill check logs next time it happens
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1317 [11:51:10] <petn-randall> siraben: Depends on what you're willing to do if the machine breaks, and how fast it needs to get back up.
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1319 [11:51:43] <siraben> petn-randall: A general strategy, for use on a personal machine.
1320 [11:51:49] <siraben> e.g. alternative to "Time Machine" on macs
1321 [11:51:54] <f-a> pingfloyd: do you happen to know if `-o uid=f` is equal to `--uuid`
1322 [11:52:07] <petn-randall> siraben: For end users, I'd say a file level backup is enough. It's good enough to restore a few files that got accidentally deleted. And if the complete system is hosed, you just reinstall and restore the /home.
1323 [11:53:04] <siraben> petn-randall: So something like deja-dup suffices?
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1326 [11:53:46] <themill> jediofthecode: if you know when it last happened, those logs are probably still there
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1328 [11:54:02] <jediofthecode> themill: hmm, not a precise time
1329 [11:54:15] <jediofthecode> themill: ah yes, around 11:35 actually
1330 [11:56:10] <jediofthecode> hmm the problem is my logs are polluted with events, because when it happens if I toggle the wifi on/off then it works fine
1331 [11:56:18] <jediofthecode> so i will wait until it happens again and check the logs before touching it
1332 [11:56:38] <petn-randall> siraben: I think "duplicity" can do that, or deja-dup works, too.
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1338 [12:00:29] <pingfloyd> f-a: it's not
1339 [12:00:38] <pingfloyd> f-a: they're totally different things uuid and uid
1340 [12:00:41] <f-a> ok
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1344 [12:01:29] <pingfloyd> uid is user id, and uuid is universally unique identifier
1345 [12:01:59] <pingfloyd> to find your user id, type id at the prompt
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1348 [12:03:36] <f-a> thanks
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1353 [12:06:50] <siraben> How can I see the source of a contrib debian package?
1354 [12:06:55] <siraben> Like firmware-b43-installer
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1356 [12:07:12] <petn-randall> siraben: Just like other source packages. `apt-get source <packagename>`
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1382 [12:30:49] <Emil> When can I expect KiCAD 5.0.0 to be available in the repos?
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1386 [12:32:45] <Emil> or can I simply install from ubuntu ppa?
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1398 [12:35:18] <yottanami> I have a 10.1 inches chines tablet with Android 4.2.2 The processor is RK3066 I want to know is there any chance to find a custom rom for it? I am not sure about the brand because it is OEM
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1403 [12:36:34] <towo^work> yottanami, and this has what to do with debian?
1404 [12:37:50] <yottanami> wow
1405 [12:38:01] <yottanami> I am really sorry
1406 [12:38:19] <yottanami> It was my mistake
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1445 [12:55:17] <zentris> I'm still not able to make an account on wiki.debian.org due to "Account creation failed" error, I've sent an email to wiki@debian.org a week ago without response
1446 [12:57:53] <zentris> Was planning to make a theme proposal for buster, but can't make an account due the spam filter I guess. Not sure who else I can contact.
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1453 [13:00:51] <bites> zentris: yeah, the spam filters are rather tight. i would try to contact an admin in #debian-replaced-url
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1461 [13:05:37] <michael2> test
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1466 [13:07:03] <michael2> zentris: you still haven't got that issue resolved? I was wanting to create a wiki account myself
1467 [13:07:23] <michael2> but I'm guessing my registration will fail too?
1468 [13:07:49] <zentris> nope, can't register with my domain's email
1469 [13:08:37] <zentris> maybe it will work with gmail, but I was hoping to use my own website as the contributor
1470 [13:09:01] <michael2> so your email has a personal domain backed by a major email host? or are you running your own email server?
1471 [13:09:41] <zentris> would it really matter?
1472 [13:09:55] <zentris> I mean it's using Google Apps
1473 [13:10:14] <zentris> so it's handled by Google
1474 [13:10:24] <zentris> but it's a custom @domain.com handle
1475 [13:10:45] <michael2> yeah, I think the first thing a recipient MTA will do is look to see where the email will go if they sent you an email
1476 [13:11:12] <zentris> they would see it's going to Google's servers just like a gmail account
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1478 [13:11:46] <zentris> it's not on any spam list or anything
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1480 [13:12:02] <michael2> yeah, that should not be too bad
1481 [13:12:16] <michael2> do you have DKIM / SPF setup?
1482 [13:12:18] <zentris> the domain is gifttemplate.com
1483 [13:12:35] <zentris> i want to submit a proposal on behalf of my website type of thing
1484 [13:13:05] <zentris> just to stay anonymous, i don't want to use my name basically
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1488 [13:13:51] <zentris> artists get a link to their websites, i'd rather have a link to my site you know what I mean
1489 [13:13:58] <michael2> sure
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1493 [13:15:23] <michael2> yeah, I think adding DKIM and spf record usually improves how your emails get received, because you do have a mis-match between the domain name and the domain of the email server.
1494 [13:15:57] <michael2> although having your MX records point to gmail is a good signal
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1498 [13:17:35] <hicks> replaced-url
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1500 [13:18:25] <michael2> hicks: yes I was going to recommend that - its really helpful service
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1502 [13:18:58] <michael2> I think only 3 emails for free though
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1506 [13:21:35] <zentris> that's kind of handled already, as far as DKIM
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1515 [13:25:59] <zentris> I guess I can try adding SPF
1516 [13:26:21] <michael2> did you do the mail test? what was your score?
1517 [13:26:49] <FinalX> if you decide to add SPF, don't take it lightly and make sure your record is correct before fully enforcing it
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1520 [13:27:23] <michael2> on the subject of email setups, can anyone recommend a good email host whose service is free?
1521 [13:27:27] <FinalX> I lost count as to how many of our customers shot themselves in their feet requesting us to add the SPF-record they sent us (just because their e-mail provider said so).
1522 [13:29:23] <michael2> so whats wrong with doing that?
1523 [13:29:42] <michael2> the SPF record was invalid?
1524 [13:30:39] <FinalX> A lot of people don't just send e-mail from that e-mail service, especially not with big companies. They often use their provider's outgoing mailserver, or some other. Especially considering a lot of providers filter outgoing e-mail here.
1525 [13:30:53] <FinalX> And they need to add every single one of the ranges that e-mail is sent from for that domain to the SPF-record.
1526 [13:31:17] <hicks> There's a few places now that just automatically blackhole all incoming email that doesn't have valid dkim+spf. Hotmail comes to mind.
1527 [13:31:30] <FinalX> If you do not, and use ~all, mail ends up in the recipient's spambox. If you use -all, e-mail never arrives at the recipient because it gets rejected or thrown away. Worst part is that the sender often never sees that the recipient has not received the mail.
1528 [13:31:36] <hicks> but yes, as FinalX says, make sure it's correct or you make a bad situation even worse :)
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1531 [13:32:59] <michael2> so with SPF do you need to specify the domains you will be sending from ? Im not understanding
1532 [13:33:18] <FinalX> If you don't understand, then please heed our warning. Read up first before shooting yourself in the proverbial foot.
1533 [13:33:28] <FinalX> Because you will get your outgoing mail blackholed.
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1537 [13:34:16] <FinalX> DMARC/DKIM/SPF are all great ideas, but when poorly executed you get yourself in a lot of trouble.
1538 [13:35:59] <FinalX> michael2: SPF is a TXT-record in the DNS that specifies which mailservers are allowed to send e-mail for that domain that you create the SPF-record in.
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1540 [13:36:53] <FinalX> michael2: You need to specificy every and all IP-range(s), both IPv4 and IPv6 that will be sending e-mail on that domain's behalf. If you forget any, the mail sent from those not matching will (depending on your policy setting) end up in spamfolders or worse, thrown away, without the sender (you?) ever knowing.
1541 [13:37:05] <zentris> you don't for Google Apps
1542 [13:37:10] <zentris> it's pretty simple
1543 [13:37:18] <zentris> but I just never bothered
1544 [13:37:33] <FinalX> You still do for Google Apps if *anything* including your local mail-client is using another mail server to send mail with instead of Google's.
1545 [13:37:38] <zentris> they use a selector like: v=spf1 include:_spf.google.com ~all
1546 [13:38:09] *** Quits: jikz (~k047n0de@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1547 [13:38:22] <FinalX> For our customers there's plenty and plenty of examples where they use our outgoing mail-server with their Google Apps or Outlook 365 setup, or have a mailinglist/newsletter hosted somewhere else using its own mailserver, and e-mail not ending up where it needs to go.
1548 [13:38:24] <zentris> you typically use the web interface for Google Apps, i think thats the point that you can access it anywhere
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1550 [13:38:33] <FinalX> ~all = goes to spamfolder if it doesn't match
1551 [13:38:40] <FinalX> That's absolutely not true.
1552 [13:38:46] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1553 [13:38:57] <FinalX> You might, but the vast majority of our customers really does not use their web interface.
1554 [13:39:03] <michael2> FinalX: I see, so with SPF you are essentially configuring your DNS records to say "I approve of these servers" but if your service changes their minds about what IP addresses the servers will live at - your in big trouble?
1555 [13:39:04] <FinalX> And a lot also move to Outlook 365.
1556 [13:39:12] *** Joins: kase (~mlese@replaced-ip )
1557 [13:39:19] <zentris> ~all adds all the proper _netblocks on Google btw
1558 [13:39:20] *** Quits: jikz (~k047n0de@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
1559 [13:39:28] <FinalX> You can't just go around telling people that it's ok to just take whatever Google tells them to do and be done with it. It's harmful. People need to review their situation before making such a decision.
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1562 [13:39:52] <zentris> yeah probably true
1563 [13:40:22] <FinalX> zentris: It does *NOT* add yours or your ISP's. KPN for example here, blocks outgoing mail unless their mailservers are used for it, to combat spam. It's nasty, but it is what it is.
1564 [13:40:30] <michael2> in your guy's experience with email, are there any services you can recommend that do a good job regarding having emails get accepted by receiving ends? as well as other reasonably good qualities? e.g. good server performance, reasonably terms and condtions etc?
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1567 [13:41:16] <FinalX> michael2: I'm very happy with Google Suite / Apps / for Business / whatever name it currently has. A lot of our customers are happy with Outlook 365, but there's also some smaller companies that do a pretty good job.
1568 [13:41:30] <zentris> well I've fone spf and I had proper dkim, and I still get Account creation failed: To prevent spam via debian wiki registration, i guess I'll try in 24 hours maybe they checking old records
1569 [13:42:05] *** Quits: OS-26750 (~OS-26750@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1570 [13:42:12] <FinalX> Also a thing to remember, web forms that send out an e-mail with a From:-address in your domain, also need to be added to the SPF-record.
1571 [13:42:24] <FinalX> (the mailserver that's used there, at least, usually local)
1572 [13:42:29] *** Joins: k047n0de (~k047n0de@replaced-ip )
1573 [13:42:30] <zentris> the easiest is just to use gmail basically, running your own email servers is very hard I hear
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1577 [13:43:40] <FinalX> I do both, gmail / Google Apps/Suite for my family (but I already had it when it was still free), and run my own mailserver. The latter _is_ quite a bit of maintenance, especially when you're expecting bigger volumes / better known email addresses (= more chance of spam).
1578 [13:44:07] <FinalX> Though setting everything up for your own mailserver is probably more work than maintaining it once done properly..
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1580 [13:45:03] *** Parts: bollo (~bollo@replaced-ip ) ("Konversation terminated!")
1581 [13:45:15] <zentris> Yeah I had it when it was free as well
1582 [13:45:40] <michael2> FinalX: when you say outbound webforms - do you mean webforms whose web app calls down into the /usr/sbin/sendmail or who run a local MTA?
1583 [13:45:46] <zentris> i noticed emails from my own domain go straight to spam on gmail lol
1584 [13:45:46] <FinalX> (sidenote: the current Google Suite, if you choose the more expensive plan of €8/$10 per user per month excl. VAT, you get unlimited storage, too)
1585 [13:46:00] *** Quits: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: nix64bit)
1586 [13:46:26] <FinalX> michael2: both, if they're not using smarthost to let another (already approved) mailserver send the outgoing mail but does it itself, it needs to be added to the allow-list
1587 [13:46:43] <zentris> i didn't have to add anything for it to work btw
1588 [13:46:54] <zentris> but email is hardly used on my host btw
1589 [13:46:55] <blackflow> btw, what does wiki account creation have to do with your email server's spf/dkim ?
1590 [13:47:06] <zentris> can't make an account
1591 [13:47:13] <FinalX> zentris: like I said, what you gave from Google (~all) makes it go to spamfolders if the server is not in the allow-list
1592 [13:47:16] <blackflow> zentris: so?
1593 [13:47:24] *** Quits: epicmetal (~epicmetal@replaced-ip ) (Quit: epicmetal)
1594 [13:47:32] <blackflow> spf and dkim is relevant when you send out mail, this is account registration on a wiki
1595 [13:47:32] <FinalX> if you change it to -all, you will not receive those e-mails from your own domain anymore, they'll be blocked instead
1596 [13:47:38] <zentris> can't add a theme proposal to buster
1597 [13:48:00] <zentris> I get Account creation failed: To prevent spam when i try to register via my domain's email on the wiki
1598 [13:48:22] <blackflow> they mean spam by disallowing random account creation, not mail spam.
1599 [13:48:25] <zentris> @FinalX oh okay, thanks for the info
1600 [13:48:32] *** Quits: unmy (~unmy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: unmy)
1601 [13:48:48] <blackflow> like, otherwise anyone could reg an account and start a vandalism fiesta.
1602 [13:48:50] <cef> To get an account on the wiki, you need to email them.
1603 [13:49:00] <zentris> oh wait blackflow might be right
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1605 [13:49:26] <zentris> does the wiki check against spf/dkim for registration?
1606 [13:49:37] <cef> no.
1607 [13:50:02] <zentris> i did email them
1608 [13:50:11] <zentris> 1 week ago, no response so far
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1610 [13:50:52] <zentris> honestly the entire theme proposal via a wiki is kind of outdated?
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1612 [13:51:04] <zentris> and complicated cumbersome?
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1614 [13:52:04] <michael2> FinalX: when you mentioned Gsuite and outlook 365 were good, you also mentioned some smaller companies were good, do you know which ones?
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1620 [13:54:14] <FinalX> michael2: I'm trying very hard to remember one that I looked at before, but I can't right now, sorry.
1621 [13:54:21] *** Joins: craigp (~craigp@replaced-ip )
1622 [13:54:31] <FinalX> I do like Protonmail.ch as well, though. But that's more security-wise.
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1625 [13:55:02] <blackflow> in my experience of running a business MTA for last several years, having spf/dkim/dmarc/clean IP, no spam, no incidents, will *still* land you in gmail's junk folders.
1626 [13:55:53] <blackflow> not to say those are useless because they aren't, on properly configured servers. eg we mark spf-fail as definite spam, but we don't block mail, always deliver, even into Junk
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1631 [13:56:25] <michael2> FinalX: was it one of these?
1632 [13:56:27] <michael2> replaced-url
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1634 [13:56:45] <FinalX> Weird. I have fully functional DMARC and mine always end up where they should be going, never in Junk.
1635 [13:57:10] *** Quits: asdsadsad (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1636 [13:57:26] <blackflow> FinalX: how many outbound domains/addresses?
1637 [13:57:39] <FinalX> michael2: No, but I know of Fastmail as well. As far as I know, they use Open-eXchange, which is also very nice.
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1641 [13:58:00] <FinalX> blackflow: For me personally, about 40. For work, hundreds of thousands.
1642 [13:58:50] <michael2> FinalX: good to know. thanks
1643 [13:58:51] <FinalX> (though, given, the amount that has the full DMARC set going is not that big of a share yet)
1644 [13:58:51] <blackflow> FinalX: and not a single complaint that mail from those is ending up in gmail's junk?
1645 [13:58:53] <asdsadsad> if I chmod 0600 a file, can "services" such as networkmanager read that file?
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1647 [13:59:22] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1648 [13:59:24] <FinalX> No, not so far. Only when our customers, like I said before, choose to ignore our warnings and only configure what they think is right.
1649 [13:59:30] *** Quits: tsglove (~tsglove@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1650 [13:59:38] <michael2> asdsadsad: only the owner and root can read that file
1651 [13:59:39] *** Quits: gm152 (coffee@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1652 [13:59:51] <blackflow> FinalX: huh.
1653 [14:00:06] *** Joins: briner (~briner@replaced-ip )
1654 [14:00:10] <asdsadsad> so any "services" running under root can read it right? like apache, networkmanager, and subsystem services
1655 [14:00:13] <zentris> omg, i can't even make an account using a gmail address just tried on the wiki
1656 [14:00:25] <zentris> so it's even my domain then
1657 [14:00:34] <zentris> it's not*
1658 [14:00:49] <zentris> "Account creation failed: To prevent spam, this wiki requires additional information from some people. Please contact wiki@debian.org and describe what you want to do in the wiki..."
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1660 [14:00:53] *** Quits: Ool (~Ool@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1661 [14:01:10] <FinalX> zentris: well, cef said: 13:48:50 <cef> To get an account on the wiki, you need to email them.
1662 [14:01:15] <zentris> and no one answers wiki@debian.org
1663 [14:01:17] <hicks> zentris: it won't allow anyone to sign up, you have to email wiki@debian.org :)
1664 [14:01:26] <zentris> yeah i did a week ago
1665 [14:01:32] <asdsadsad> don't use gmail: replaced-url
1666 [14:01:32] <hicks> if there is no reply, then you're stuck unless you can track down another admin
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1670 [14:01:59] <asdsadsad> that's all the purchases you made that the google AI read from your gmail
1671 [14:02:39] <FinalX> That's what you approved, that's your own fault, then. My list is pretty much empty.
1672 [14:02:52] <zentris> wow
1673 [14:02:54] <FinalX> You need to explicitly allow access to e-mail, which mostly only happens with e-mail apps.
1674 [14:02:56] <zentris> that's pretty crazy
1675 [14:03:14] <FinalX> There's a reason you get pop-ups to give permission in apps.
1676 [14:03:19] <asdsadsad> that's only the UI, if you download the "Data" from google, you will probably see more
1677 [14:03:31] <zentris> how does it even know
1678 [14:03:39] <asdsadsad> use protonmail.com
1679 [14:03:41] <FinalX> I did, I'm very conservative with allowing apps access to anything.
1680 [14:03:42] <zentris> i don't buy while logged in
1681 [14:03:45] <asdsadsad> and privacy.com
1682 [14:03:55] <FinalX> Protonmail I already suggested as well :)
1683 [14:03:56] <zentris> and I don't use chrome for purchases
1684 [14:04:13] <zentris> oh wait
1685 [14:04:17] <FinalX> Plus you don't have to set up GMail as Android account on your devices. You can still use it as mail-only account.
1686 [14:04:21] <zentris> i know, it uses the shipping info
1687 [14:04:36] <asdsadsad> only until early 2019....then it's on to the purism librem 5 smartphone
1688 [14:04:40] <FinalX> Protonmail does not have the option to be used as such, GMail/Suite accounts do. Doesn't mean you have to.
1689 [14:04:42] <zentris> that's not a huge deal
1690 [14:04:47] *** Quits: necrose99_ (~necrose99@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1691 [14:04:58] <zentris> it's just reports the email info you get with amazon and other sites
1692 [14:05:08] <asdsadsad> it's building a shadow profile of you
1693 [14:05:26] <asdsadsad> replaced-url
1694 [14:05:44] <asdsadsad> ever seen the movie minority report?
1695 [14:05:50] <asdsadsad> this shadow profile will be use
1696 [14:05:50] *** Joins: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip )
1697 [14:06:02] <asdsadsad> it will predict what you will do before you do it :)
1698 [14:06:03] *** Joins: walnut_burl (~oak@replaced-ip )
1699 [14:06:11] <FinalX> With free gmail, you even explicitly allow them to, yes. Google Suite, however, has a different set of terms and agreements. And the latter is also used by many of the top 500 companies.
1700 [14:06:26] <FinalX> So if they do, you're probably peanuts to them.
1701 [14:06:42] <zentris> privacy is so dead
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1703 [14:07:08] <asdsadsad> they don't just need gmail, they can do based on ip, cookie etc
1704 [14:07:18] <FinalX> But yes, I'd recommend Protonmail for privacy and security as well (like I said before). I just don't think you should just keep on spewing crap you don't fully understand just because the media says something is that way. Journalists get things wrong, and bloggers aren't even journalists.
1705 [14:07:24] <zentris> everything i see is directly from email
1706 [14:07:29] <FinalX> Of course, and that's completely unrelated to gmail.
1707 [14:07:35] <zentris> like i am logged into 2 different emails via different browsers
1708 [14:07:39] <FinalX> Stop mixing shit.
1709 [14:07:44] <zentris> and it reports based on that email
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1711 [14:08:02] <asdsadsad> come on, can we really trust google even if it gives an option to "opt out"?
1712 [14:08:07] <zentris> each one was getting shipping and invoice info thats why it knows
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1716 [14:09:11] <zentris> but it does say it gathers the data from assistant, gmail and more
1717 [14:09:22] <zentris> i do wonder what the more means
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1719 [14:09:44] <zentris> i would be suprised if it started listing cash purchases and stuff, that would be interesting
1720 [14:10:00] <asdsadsad> just like banks do credit default swaps, these companies do data swaps
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1723 [14:10:21] <asdsadsad> there are data aggregators that firehose all of this data
1724 [14:10:30] <zentris> prices seem to be wrong often
1725 [14:10:55] <zentris> says I paid $1.3 million for the tesla model 3
1726 [14:10:59] <asdsadsad> lol
1727 [14:11:00] <zentris> which is not accurate lol
1728 [14:11:41] <zentris> head and shoulders $43.00 wtf
1729 [14:11:46] <asdsadsad> here is some excellent stuff to learn more: replaced-url
1730 [14:12:15] <asdsadsad> replaced-url
1731 [14:12:22] <asdsadsad> replaced-url
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1734 [14:13:03] <blackflow> getting slightly offtopic...
1735 [14:13:12] <asdsadsad> ok im done heh :)
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1742 [14:15:01] <zentris> If someone sees an admin or whomever is in charge of the debian wiki, can you let them know that it's not possible to register?
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1750 [14:20:17] <annadane> are you behind a vpn?
1751 [14:20:20] <annadane> zentris
1752 [14:20:21] *** Quits: gigetoo (~gigetoo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1753 [14:20:39] <zentris> why would that matter?
1754 [14:20:42] *** Joins: cornholio (~cornholio@replaced-ip )
1755 [14:20:51] <annadane> well, i know the wiki sometimes blocks vpn's
1756 [14:21:03] <annadane> but "not possible to register" is vague. what does it tell you when you try?
1757 [14:21:04] <zentris> oh no I am using my ISP
1758 [14:21:31] <zentris> "Account creation failed: To prevent spam, this wiki requires additional information from some people. Please contact wiki@debian.org and describe what you want to do in the wiki..."
1759 [14:21:35] *** Quits: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1760 [14:21:45] <zentris> pretty sure it just blocks everyone
1761 [14:21:55] <annadane> it... doesn't? i've successfully registered before
1762 [14:21:59] <annadane> as it says, contact the email
1763 [14:22:05] <zentris> i did, a week ago
1764 [14:22:16] <zentris> no response
1765 [14:22:25] <annadane> ok, well, i'll ask around then
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1767 [14:22:46] <zentris> i wanted to make a theme proposal for debian buster
1768 [14:23:52] <zentris> Posted this before, but some ideas I've done so far: replaced-url
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1772 [14:25:35] <annadane> replaced-url
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1806 [14:50:16] <shtrb> should #898267 be ported to stretch as well (when fixed) ?
1807 [14:50:16] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1808 [14:50:17] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1809 [14:50:18] *** Joins: briner (~briner@replaced-ip )
1810 [14:50:45] <shtrb> nothing too much serious except laptop overheating and lockdown ...
1811 [14:50:54] *** Joins: ca1ek (~dawid@replaced-ip )
1812 [14:51:24] <ca1ek> I'm trying to set up iptables but it keeps whining about "no chain by that name"
1813 [14:51:44] <ca1ek> I'm running this command: iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport ssh -j ACCEPT
1814 [14:51:47] <shtrb> did you create that name ?
1815 [14:52:10] <ca1ek> I mean, when I do iptables -L it shows me an INPUT chain
1816 [14:52:16] <ca1ek> so I'm trying to add a rule to it
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1819 [14:52:58] <shtrb> iptables -A INPUT -j ...
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1821 [14:53:19] <ca1ek> same thing
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1823 [14:53:59] <ca1ek> okay, that ... you put at the end confused me
1824 [14:54:17] <ca1ek> just running the command did something with no error so that's progress
1825 [14:54:40] <ca1ek> but still attempting to allow ssh says there's no chain
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1831 [15:00:16] <ca1ek> according to stackoverflow the solution is to delete iptables and install it again
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1836 [15:00:49] <shtrb> no
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1839 [15:01:47] <blackflow> pretty sure tehre's a megaton of iptables tutorials on google. tried any one of them and have a debian specific iptables issue?
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1844 [15:03:45] <ca1ek> all googling reads to advanced issues with people doing prerouting and other craziness
1845 [15:03:52] <ca1ek> I just want to allow damn ssh
1846 [15:04:15] <ca1ek> but there's no INPUT table apparently
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1848 [15:04:39] <blackflow> impossibru
1849 [15:04:52] <shtrb> iptables --list
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1855 [15:06:20] <ca1ek> replaced-url
1856 [15:06:57] *** Quits: polman (~aananev@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1859 [15:10:27] <slax0r> it's right there ca1ek, and it's policy is even set to accept connections
1860 [15:10:59] <slax0r> so you maybe need to forward the port from your router?
1861 [15:11:08] <ca1ek> yes, but when I attempt to do iptables -A INPUT -m conntrack --ctstate ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT or
1862 [15:11:09] <ca1ek> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport ssh -j ACCEPT
1863 [15:11:19] <ca1ek> I get iptables: No chain/target/match by that name.
1864 [15:11:36] <ca1ek> and nothing new is added to the tables, nothing new is visible on iptables -L
1865 [15:11:45] <blackflow> ca1ek: which debian is this? I think the conntrack module is a bit newer
1866 [15:12:03] <blackflow> but definitely Debian 9 and methinks even 8 and their respective kernels should support it
1867 [15:12:04] <ca1ek> someone had same issue as me month ago and still is unanswered replaced-url
1868 [15:12:22] <ca1ek> it's a fork of debian 9 for armhf
1869 [15:12:37] *** Quits: hando_ (~hando@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1870 [15:12:48] <blackflow> kick that. =)
1871 [15:13:12] <ca1ek> whatdoyou mean my english not good
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1873 [15:13:55] <ca1ek> it was working yesterday btw but I finally installed a 3 month's backlog of upgrades and now it doesn't work
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1876 [15:14:11] <RoyK> ca1ek: any reason not to use ufw?
1877 [15:14:52] *** Quits: skwingar (~skwingar@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
1878 [15:15:01] <ca1ek> hm, I haven't even heard of it, just went to iptables out of habit
1879 [15:15:04] *** Quits: ctrlbreak (~ctrlbreak@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1880 [15:15:04] <ca1ek> will give a look
1881 [15:15:13] <RoyK> !ufw
1882 [15:15:15] <dpkg> Uncomplicated firewall (ufw) is an <iptables> front-end with syntax similar to OpenBSD's Packet Filter (PF). replaced-url
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1884 [15:15:23] <blackflow> ufw is just a wrapper around iptables. if iptables doesn't work, neither will ufw.
1885 [15:15:41] <ca1ek> oh it's just a gui for iptables
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1887 [15:15:44] <blackflow> ca1ek: that's not a debian problem so ask your respective distro what's up with that. Debian's kernel supports iptables normnally.
1888 [15:15:56] <blackflow> *normally
1889 [15:15:57] <ca1ek> i don't even have x11 forwarding set up so can't use it
1890 [15:15:57] <RoyK> ca1ek: no, not a gui, just an iptables wrapper
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1892 [15:16:06] <shtrb> Is it crazy to download replaced-url
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1895 [15:16:51] <RoyK> ca1ek: I use it for most things, without any x11
1896 [15:17:12] <RoyK> ca1ek: apt install ufw - ufw allow ssh - ufw enable
1897 [15:17:16] <RoyK> ca1ek: and so on
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1899 [15:18:09] <RoyK> ca1ek: ufw can't do all the iptables stuff, so you may have to configure tht manually in the ufw config if you need things like masquerading or port forwarding
1900 [15:18:36] <RoyK> but it's not hard
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1902 [15:18:42] <ca1ek> so I did ufw allow ssh, and it replies with "Rules updated"
1903 [15:18:49] <ca1ek> but looking at iptables -L nothing changed
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1905 [15:18:57] <ca1ek> maybe I'll try just rebooting
1906 [15:19:06] <RoyK> ca1ek: did you enable ufw?
1907 [15:19:08] <RoyK> ufw enable
1908 [15:19:15] <ca1ek> welp, I will when it boots back up
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1910 [15:19:35] <RoyK> rebooting for everything is a windows thing ;)
1911 [15:19:44] <thnee> How is dhclient supposed to be started? The manual says `sudo service isc-dhcp-server stop` but there is no such unit in systemctl?
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1914 [15:20:09] <shtrb> isc-dhcp-server is a server not a client, by network-manager for example
1915 [15:20:28] <ca1ek> RoyK: well I did an apt upgrade so maybe iptables was in some sort of limbo with the old version running but new version writing the tables or something
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1917 [15:20:49] <RoyK> ca1ek: what sort of upgrade?
1918 [15:20:51] <thnee> Oh of course, my bad. Ok but I dont use network-manager, and I still have dhcp working and I have seen dhclient running, so where has it been started from in that case?
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1920 [15:21:08] <RoyK> thnee: dhcpcd, perhaps?
1921 [15:21:10] <shtrb> you may have auto in /etc/network/interfaces
1922 [15:21:15] <ca1ek> RoyK: just `apt upgrade` since i had 70 packages waiting
1923 [15:21:24] <RoyK> ca1ek: shouldn't matter
1924 [15:21:25] <shtrb> *sorry dhcp
1925 [15:21:43] <RoyK> "auto" is for ipv6 ;)
1926 [15:21:46] <ca1ek> okay ufw worked
1927 [15:21:58] <RoyK> fine :)
1928 [15:22:08] <ca1ek> thanks for showing me it, will help me a lot in the future
1929 [15:22:17] <ca1ek> now I'm wondering if it's ufw itself or the reboot that made it work
1930 [15:22:32] <blackflow> probably reboot, as ufw is a wrapper around iptables.
1931 [15:22:41] <thnee> RoyK: I do have auto. But how is dhclient supposed to be restared/reloaded? `systemctl restart networking` does not seem to do that
1932 [15:22:46] <RoyK> iptables is very nice, or next, nftables, but it's complicated so if you just need something simple, ufw works well
1933 [15:23:13] <blackflow> RoyK: ufw is a steaming pile of assumptions. it hardcodes some ports that are always open, like dhcp
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1935 [15:23:49] <RoyK> blackflow: depends what you need, obviously
1936 [15:24:17] <RoyK> blackflow: ufw won't replace iptables or nftables - it's just a wrapper - but for 99% of those out there, it works well
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1939 [15:25:14] <blackflow> I'm sure it does, but it assumes too much. also, it's a canonical NIH thing because there's not enough firewall managers out there. now, on debian, I've had great time with Shorewall.
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1941 [15:25:45] <RoyK> blackflow: oh - holy wars again?
1942 [15:25:54] <blackflow> nah :)
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1944 [15:26:15] <RoyK> blackflow: want to try to break into one of my servers "only" secured with updates and ufw? ;)
1945 [15:26:16] <blackflow> these days tho I prefer a raw iptables rules and iptables-persistent package.
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1949 [15:27:38] <ca1ek> does ufw autosave changes to persist after reboot or do I need to do something?
1950 [15:28:30] <blackflow> RoyK: it's just that canonical's NIH crap is giving me bad digestion and an immune reaction.
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1953 [15:29:22] <shtrb> Are replaced-url
1954 [15:29:57] <blackflow> "Firewalls? Wait, is there something we can specifically default to in Ubuntu and nowhere else? No?! To your keyboards!"
1955 [15:30:06] *** Quits: craigp (~craigp@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1956 [15:30:27] <RoyK> blackflow: NIH?
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1959 [15:31:13] <blackflow> RoyK: replaced-url
1960 [15:31:23] <RoyK> well, ufw works
1961 [15:31:30] *** Quits: Guest93733 (~ard1t@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
1962 [15:32:07] <blackflow> RoyK: so does netplan. So, welcome that in Buster?
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1964 [15:32:09] <RoyK> but of course, some might want to tune things better, but then, iptables/nftables syntax can be a wee bit hard to grasp at starts
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1966 [15:33:02] <blackflow> personally I find it easier to use beacuse it's straightforward and explicit rule definition. of course, when your rules grow complex, then maybe some abstraction is in order.
1967 [15:33:25] <blackflow> and really not many flags and values to remember, if you know all the concepts required to operate a firewall in the first place.
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1972 [15:34:53] <RoyK> blackflow: my point is, as mentioned, that ufw does the job nicely for most people - those that just need basic security. If you need a really, *really* secure firewall, move to freebsd
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1974 [15:35:36] <blackflow> why FreeBSD? that's the LEAST secure OS.
1975 [15:35:44] <RoyK> no
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1977 [15:37:06] <blackflow> sigh... okay, if you say so.
1978 [15:37:10] <RoyK> I know some of the architects behind replaced-url
1979 [15:37:18] <RoyK> those people know what they're doing
1980 [15:37:21] *** Quits: apbc123 (~apcabc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1981 [15:38:07] <blackflow> so "appeal to authority" is the proof here?
1982 [15:38:24] *** Quits: briner (~briner@replaced-ip ) (Quit: briner)
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1985 [15:39:17] <RoyK> blackflow: no, not at all, but I've seen what pf can do and it's pretty good, to be diplomatic
1986 [15:39:21] <blackflow> problem with freebsd is that it's a nice base OS used by downstream vendors for their (proprietary usually) products. in itself, they refuse any modifications and advancements so they don't disrupt this backwards compatibility.
1987 [15:39:38] <blackflow> reason why Shawn Webb and friends forked it into HardenedBSD. Reason why TrueOS forked as well.
1988 [15:40:23] <blackflow> except for jails, FreeBSD has ZERO security mitigations. no ASLR, no pie, relro, the MAC framework is badly documented and no RBAC like AppArmor or SELinux. no mitigations whatsoever.
1989 [15:40:36] <RoyK> barhom: back to debian and ufw - would you be able to break into a machine "only" secured with updates and ufw? ;)
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1992 [15:41:02] <blackflow> RoyK: sure if any of your listening services had a vuln, say an RCE.
1993 [15:41:03] <RoyK> blackflow: that was for you - typo
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1995 [15:41:44] <blackflow> ufw is just a wrapper around iptables, so I'm not sure what your point is.
1996 [15:41:48] <RoyK> blackflow: would fine-tuned iptables rules help you there? ;)
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2000 [15:42:43] <blackflow> you're comparing apples and oranges. my whle complaint against ufw is that it's a needless produict because canonical doesn't have one of its own. I never said anthing about its security, except that I dislike, a lot, that it assumes things and leaves unnecessary ports open.
2001 [15:42:43] <RoyK> blackflow: you know you can tune iptables in ufw rules as well? it just helps out manging things
2002 [15:43:11] <RoyK> ok, so yet a holy war :)
2003 [15:43:24] <blackflow> not a war at all. complaint against NIH.
2004 [15:43:36] <blackflow> I hope you understand the difference.
2005 [15:44:18] <RoyK> I understand your concern, but IMO if it works, it works
2006 [15:45:07] <RoyK> and it certainly helps people to secure their machines without learning all about {ip,nf}tables
2007 [15:45:38] <blackflow> not sure that's a good thing.
2008 [15:45:52] <RoyK> would it be better if they were attackable?
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2010 [15:46:30] <blackflow> well first of all, if you don't run services then the firewall is not much of a protection on simple installations. most of such services are smart, eg. databases and stuff listening by default on localhost only.
2011 [15:46:53] <RoyK> I know iptables pretty well - I've used it since ipchains went out of style - but I still use ufw since it does the job for most stuff
2012 [15:46:55] <blackflow> second... instead of "dumb ufw or nothing" that you seem to be suggesting, why don't they learn a few simple basics about iptables.
2013 [15:47:07] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2014 [15:47:31] <RoyK> blackflow: not all people find the time to learn that - which is the point
2015 [15:48:09] *** Joins: hando_ (~hando@replaced-ip )
2016 [15:48:09] *** Joins: rounnus (~rounnus@replaced-ip )
2017 [15:48:14] <blackflow> because when you design a system for idiots, then idiots will use it. and those systems run by idiots who think they're "safe" because they nstalled some software they don't really understand, those systems will get compromised even faster and turned into UDP cannons on the public internet, and THEN that affects me DIRECTLY.
2018 [15:48:46] *** Joins: tampons (~tampons@replaced-ip )
2019 [15:48:47] <blackflow> RoyK: it's a publicly accessible machine, most likely, if it installs a firewall. that means Know how to operate it, or gtfo the public internet.
2020 [15:49:17] <tampons> introducing the LARGEST tampon yet: the quadruple-extra-large!
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2023 [15:49:18] <RoyK> blackflow: have you considered that debian comes with a GUI and is easily installable for anyone over the age of seven? or less?
2024 [15:49:24] <blackflow> so excuse me if running servers without understanding grinds my gears.
2025 [15:49:27] *** Quits: rounnus_ (~rounnus@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026 [15:49:48] <blackflow> RoyK: what's your point?
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2029 [15:49:59] <RoyK> blackflow: I only have a couple of hundred servers under my control, so perhaps not a lot
2030 [15:50:15] <RoyK> blackflow: move to #debian-offtopic
2031 [15:50:25] <tampons> originally custom designed for Kim Kardashian, we have chosen to start mass producing the XXXXL Tampons for the public, due to the modern epidemic of LSCS (Loose Saggy Cunt Syndrome)
2032 [15:50:25] <blackflow> here or oftc, oftc doesn't like my ip range.
2033 [15:50:37] <RoyK> here
2034 [15:50:58] *** Joins: rounnus (~rounnus@replaced-ip )
2035 [15:51:20] <tampons> Do you have issues with tampons constantly falling out whenever you stand up? You might be suffering from LSCS.
2036 [15:51:25] <annadane> !ops tampons
2037 [15:51:31] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annadane complains about a problem (see above)
2038 [15:51:37] *** Quits: arthurmde_ (uid38505@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2039 [15:51:48] *** Joins: rounnus_ (~rounnus@replaced-ip )
2040 [15:51:52] <tampons> The solution is here: the XXXL TAMPON, manufactured exclusively by the GNAA
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2149 [16:47:28] <ayekat> uhm... did I just kill dpkg by PMing it, or is that pure coincidence? :-}
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2158 [16:48:33] <ayekat> it quit with "Excess Flood"
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2198 [17:11:31] <sunkan> Just updated an HP Proliant DL360 G5 server (yes, very old server) to the new 4.9.0-7 kernel and it crashes at boot. Is this a known issue?
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2202 [17:13:08] <eqz2251> sunkan: what was the previous kernel version?
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2204 [17:14:17] <sunkan> eqz2251: I guess it mostly is the security related things that I wanted to apply. Just did a normal update with all security patches and the kernel came along in that.
2205 [17:14:37] <sunkan> eqz2251: It's the official stretch kernel version.
2206 [17:14:41] <eqz2251> sunkan: so the previous kernel was already 4.9.0
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2208 [17:15:46] <eqz2251> sunkan: can you identify which part of the kernel crashes? some specific driver maybe?
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2210 [17:15:59] <sunkan> eqz2251: Yes, I have now managed to revert it to 4.9.0-6 as it did leave the old kernel there I was able to choose from GRUB when I got remote connection to the management of the server.
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2212 [17:16:11] <mrtnt> When I logged into my server over SSH, then its hostname has changed to "device-d915e00da87e06f6". What might cause this? /etc/hostname doesn't include this.
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2214 [17:16:24] <plundra> mrtnt: From dhcp
2215 [17:16:38] <plundra> I would guess.
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2217 [17:16:46] <eqz2251> sunkan: but you didn't see the exact crash message?
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2220 [17:16:56] <mrtnt> plundra: oh, could be. Thanks! I'll check that.
2221 [17:17:08] <sunkan> eqz2251: I have some output from the XEN hypervisor, let me paste it and give a link.
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2223 [17:17:35] <eqz2251> sunkan: oh, if it is running as a XEN guest, then i cannot help
2224 [17:17:49] <eqz2251> sunkan: never used XEN so far
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2228 [17:18:12] <plundra> mrtnt: You can configure dhclient.conf to either not ask for it, or supersede it.
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2232 [17:18:24] <sunkan> eqz2251: replaced-url
2233 [17:18:35] <mrtnt> plundra: yes, I just did it.
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2246 [17:19:38] <sunkan> eqz2251: If it's not xen related it works pretty much the same as per usual.. I might do some more troubleshooting at some other time (like booting without Xen) now the server needs to be running for a while :)
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2418 [17:41:59] <fSharp> hello, I didn't know there was a user limit to channel
2419 [17:42:05] <fSharp> I had to wait in the line :)
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2421 [17:43:22] <fSharp> can you please let me know if I can use the following procedure for chroot for accessing the root of my target system: replaced-url
2422 [17:43:47] <FinalX> it's automatically adjusted when people enter/leave; it's an anti-flood mechanism. pretty old tactic to annoy people of a channel is to let entire botnets enter, spam and leave in one go. with this it's only limited to a couple at a time.
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2424 [17:44:02] <fSharp> I am not interested in fixing the same problem as in the link..just whether the same procedure applies for root access
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2427 [17:44:50] <fSharp> FinalX, ah, right, thank you for informing
2428 [17:45:32] <FinalX> if you only want access to the root filesystem, you don't have to do a lot, just mount it somewhere. if you actually want to chroot into it and do more than just traverse through the filesystem (like start services), you're gonna have to do everything leading up to and including that chroot command. after you're done, you're going to have to unmount them before you're able to unmount your root fs again (or
2429 [17:45:34] <FinalX> reboot)
2430 [17:45:51] <Brigo> fSharp, for grub it should work.
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2432 [17:46:06] <fSharp> FinalX, sure, I'd like to do the latter, so it works, then?
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2434 [17:46:32] <Brigo> Brigo, yes, but i would advise to use the debian installer, it is way easier.
2435 [17:46:47] <fSharp> Brigo, no, I just mean whether the same procedure can be followed for root access..the particular problem in the link is not my case.
2436 [17:46:47] <FinalX> it should, yeah. unless your root fs is encrypted and such, then you'll have to do more. but after mounting it succesfully, use the other /dev /proc /sys bind mounts to get a more workable system inside a chroot
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2438 [17:47:14] <Brigo> fSharp, what FinalX is right.
2439 [17:47:18] <FinalX> For example, I do something similar to create ZFS rooted Ubuntu installs from a Live CD.
2440 [17:47:39] <FinalX> And then enter into the chroot in the end to fix up things (incl. GRUB there)
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2443 [17:47:46] <irrep> A colleague locked himself to GCC 4.4 (by use of non-standard extensions). Is there a sensible way to install GCC 4.4 on a Debian 9 system?
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2445 [17:49:27] <apollo13> how many extensions are they using? shouldn't be to hard to upgrade
2446 [17:49:31] <apollo13> (the code I mean)
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2448 [17:50:41] <irrep> apollo13: In principle it isn't, but he is a PhD student who is almost done and is just running it on his laptop with an old compiler. Another colleague and I have tried to port it to C++11, but there is insufficient buy-in. So I just try to keep it working until he finishes his thesis
2449 [17:50:43] <Brigo> FinalX, ones you chroot like that you can do everything you like eve install packages and that.
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2451 [17:50:57] <apollo13> irrep: then manually compile gcc 4.4
2452 [17:51:12] <fSharp> FinalX, the target system's home folder is encrypted, if this is the same as what you mean
2453 [17:51:29] <apollo13> irrep: compiling gcc shouldn't be much more than configure, make, make install
2454 [17:51:51] <irrep> apollo13: okay, I'll give it a try.
2455 [17:52:04] <apollo13> irrep: you might be able to try to "forward-port" an old rpm, but I guess you might run into issues with libc etc…
2456 [17:52:18] <apollo13> dependency wise, whereas a clean compilation should suffice
2457 [17:52:21] <apollo13> s/rpm/dev/
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2459 [17:52:22] <apollo13> deb*
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2464 [17:53:32] <Brigo> irrep, i have gcc 4.8 installed, so it should be very difficult
2465 [17:53:39] <Brigo> just finding the right package
2466 [17:53:57] <apollo13> 4.4 is from 2012
2467 [17:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1607
2468 [17:54:06] <apollo13> so that might be somewhat difficult
2469 [17:54:24] <Brigo> ,v v gcc-4.4
2470 [17:54:25] <apollo13> 4.8 is 2015 which is rather "new" for debian stable/old-stable
2471 [17:54:25] <judd> No package named 'v' was found in amd64.
2472 [17:54:32] <Brigo> ,v gcc-4.4
2473 [17:54:33] <judd> Package: gcc-4.4 on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.4.7-2
2474 [17:54:48] <irrep> could I install the wheezy package on stretch?
2475 [17:54:52] <apollo13> wheezy is oldoldstable or what?
2476 [17:54:54] <Brigo> irrep, not sure
2477 [17:55:01] <apollo13> irrep: I strongly doubt it
2478 [17:55:13] <apollo13> but enlighten us and try
2479 [17:55:37] <Brigo> lot of dependencies, yes.
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2481 [17:56:11] <apollo13> hence me suggesting an installation from source into a prefix which doesn't hurt
2482 [17:56:11] <Brigo> irrep, maybe installing wheezy in a container will be easier.
2483 [17:56:41] <irrep> Yeah, installing from source might actually be the easiest thing to do. I am downloading the source right now
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2485 [17:57:06] <Brigo> it has a lot of dependencies ..
2486 [17:57:20] <Brigo> Depends: cpp-4.8 (= 4.8.4-1), gcc-4.8-base (= 4.8.4-1), binutils (>= 2.24.90.20141219), libgcc-4.8-dev (>= 4.8.4-1), libc6 (>= 2.14), libcloog-isl4 (>= 0.17), libgmp10 (>= 2:5.0.1~), libisl10 (>= 0.10), libmpc3, libmpfr4 (>= 3.1.2), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
2487 [17:57:32] <Brigo> you'll need all this.
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2491 [17:57:53] <Brigo> sorry, this is for 4.8, but you can see the problem
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2495 [17:58:52] <Brigo> with apt and dpkg you can download the source and compile the package and its dependencies atomagically, but even then.
2496 [17:59:52] <irrep> I'll just see whether I can compile it right away. If not, the person either has to port his code or just keep running it on his laptop.
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2501 [18:00:31] <irrep> I just had set up the SLURM cluster management in our department, so he would have access to 9 machines with a nice Intel Core i5.
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2508 [18:02:05] <Brigo> irrep, a container installation with wheezy or what ever is quite easy with or something like that, just one instruction and some tunning.
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2513 [18:02:58] <irrep> Brigo: I have no experience with containers, just with virtual machines. So I don't even know where to start looking, except for Docker or LXC perhaps
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2515 [18:04:17] <Brigo> well, a virtual machine like qemu could work too.
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2517 [18:04:55] <Brigo> i mean, every VM is ok, but i am thinking about something thin and straithforward
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2519 [18:05:03] <ayekat> hi - I'm using preseeding during installation, but for some reason, one of my rules doesn't apply properly (the resulting setting is just empty) - I've triple checked my syntax with the output of debconf-get-selections, and I can't find where I'm doing things wrong - is there any way to debug this more?
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2522 [18:05:21] <irrep> Brigo: Problem is that I want to make gcc-4.4 available in a way that it can compile programs to run on any of the workstations such that one can run many jobs in parallel
2523 [18:05:26] <Brigo> straightforward*
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2526 [18:05:53] <ayekat> (this is my line in preseed.cfg: replaced-url
2527 [18:06:05] <Brigo> irrep, you got me there :)
2528 [18:06:22] <irrep> Brigo: what do you mean?
2529 [18:06:51] <Brigo> irrep, i don't know how to solve that without compiling in the system as you suggested
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2534 [18:09:52] <ayekat> (and as a reference, this is the output of debconf-get-selections *after* running dpkg-reconfigure)
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2536 [18:09:55] <ayekat> replaced-url
2537 [18:10:13] <ayekat> ah, wait - I got the wrong one
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2545 [18:13:24] <irrep> So gcc 4.4 does not build on Debian 9, so my colleage has to figure out whether he wants to (a) wait on his laptop, (b) install an ancient version of GCC on the workstations or (c) just use C++11 lambdas instead of the GCC closure-extension.
2546 [18:13:50] <apollo13> what was the build error?
2547 [18:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1614
2548 [18:14:02] <irrep> Redefinition of exact_log
2549 [18:14:33] <irrep> apollo13: Seemed to be that the versions of gmp and mpfr have changed so much that they are not compatible with each other any more.
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2554 [18:15:41] <apollo13> if it was exact_log2 (not exact_log) I think you need -fgnu89-inline
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2558 [18:16:24] <apollo13> but yeah, upgrading the code to something sane would be what I'd force them to do
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2562 [18:17:08] <irrep> It's not like we don't have C++ expertise on this floor. It is just that most people here seem to like C because it it appears easier to them.
2563 [18:17:17] <apollo13> it is easier
2564 [18:17:34] <apollo13> well the language at least is, writing stuff might not be easier :D
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2566 [18:17:39] <ca1ek_> anybody knows how to fix the black boxes flickering in latest firefox?
2567 [18:17:42] <irrep> But the software that is written in C++ is not necessarily easier
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2569 [18:18:05] <ca1ek_> also, why not rewrite it in Rust?
2570 [18:18:06] <irrep> apollo13: Yeah, we just thought the same thing :-)
2571 [18:18:07] <ca1ek_> kek
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2577 [18:19:22] <irrep> ca1ek_: I do not know any Rust, so I cannot make an argument for or against it. I am pretty happy with modern C++. Perhaps we do not use it in our group because we need utmost performance and hand-written kernels, so C and C++ give us that. I am not sure how Rust would do this, we likely have a lot of unsafe code there.
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2582 [18:21:11] <ca1ek_> Safe doesn't exclude performant, some Rust projects used unsafe code to make it faster but it later turned out safe code was either on par or even faster. You just need to prove to the compiler that it's safe, it will probably optimize down to the same thing as in C++ or unsafe Rust
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2586 [18:23:52] <irrep> We also have the problem that people only know C or C++ in our field of research. I am quite happy that we are not doing FORTRAN. And we can only do C++11, the compilers on various high performance systems are rather old.
2587 [18:24:39] <irrep> So I am not sure how pleasant it would be to have something written in Rust and trying to compile it on various machines where we only have user accounts.
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2594 [18:28:22] <mnuhmnuh> irrep: give 'em accounts on a machine where rust is?
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2609 [18:40:02] <ggarcia> Hello!
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2618 [18:45:01] <irrep> mnuhmnuh: With HPC you have to write a grant proposal and then some supercomputing center gives you access. And you have to use their machine as-is. This means stupid firewalls here and missing software there. I have a 1300 line bash script that compiles the software that we use on five different machines. It is full of workarounds for the machines. And that is just C++11 code ...
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2633 [18:52:27] <fSharp> v
2634 [18:52:42] <mnuhmnuh> irrep: didn't know you meant hpc. i'm well aware of how hard it is to get anything done in that area. tried for 1.5 a. to upgrade ram in server, denied outage everytime; business code pre-empted. "But ..."
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2658 [19:03:52] <Horrik> Hello
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2661 [19:05:20] <Horrik> I had no internet connection untill i uncomment iface eth0 inet dhcp in /etc/network/interfaces. Where could i find where the ip adress is stored?
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2664 [19:06:11] <Horrik> i think it is set during the first boot somewhere? sincee i had internet the first time i booted it
2665 [19:06:24] <petn-randall> Horrik: Until you make that line a comment, or remove the # to make it a regular line?
2666 [19:06:40] <Horrik> yes i know
2667 [19:06:52] <petn-randall> That was a question.
2668 [19:06:58] <mnuhmnuh> /sbin/ifconfig
2669 [19:07:08] <Horrik> but the ip adress is configured during installation?
2670 [19:07:29] <Horrik> because i had internet without "iface eth0 inet dhcp"before
2671 [19:07:46] <Horrik> ok ty
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2674 [19:08:06] <petn-randall> Horrik: I'd like to help, but didn't understand what you did yet.
2675 [19:08:14] <Horrik> i will look at ifconfig ty
2676 [19:08:50] <petn-randall> Horrik: You can either configure the network with ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), or use network-manager. In both cases it'll just use DHCP unless you set something else.
2677 [19:09:02] <Horrik> I had no internet connection untill i uncomment "iface eth0 inet dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces. this is what i did
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2679 [19:09:12] <mnuhmnuh> Horrik: you can choose between interfaces file, or network-manager (nm-applet). the latter ignores ifaces defined by former.
2680 [19:09:16] <Horrik> but it's strange that i need it now and not before
2681 [19:09:51] <petn-randall> Horrik: If it's not configured with ifupdown, network-manager will do it.
2682 [19:10:04] <Horrik> so i thought the gateway ip is hard set somewhere thats why dhcp solved it
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2684 [19:10:47] <Horrik> but i dont know too much about where things are stored i tried to google it but got confused
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2731 [19:44:45] <jskapata> [Debian Buster] Where are the howtos that used to be in /usr/share/doc/HOWTO? Using "apt-cache search doc-linux", I have only found docs in French and Polish.
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2742 [19:49:47] <fSharp> hello again, it turned out that I could just access the target system via file manager. do I still need to run "sudo mount /dev/sdax /mnt/myrootpartition" ?
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2745 [19:50:35] <fSharp> when I click it on the left pane of the file manager, the partition is already mounted. so the command is no more necessary, I presume?
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2748 [19:51:47] <ksk> fSharp: If you use a Desktop Environment it might have some auto-mount features of external drives. the mounted path will then differ from /mnt/myrootpartition though
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2750 [19:52:36] <fSharp> ksk, essentially I am about to run chroot following this link (though my goal is different from the one on the page): replaced-url
2751 [19:52:56] <ksk> fSharp: issue a "mount" command to see where it was mounted
2752 [19:53:15] <fSharp> so I just wanted to know if I can proceed with the Step 5 commands on the page, since the partition is mounted
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2756 [19:53:46] <fSharp> ksk, it is mounted on the same path as shown in file manager
2757 [19:54:06] <fSharp> like /media/user/somelongstring/
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2759 [19:55:30] <fSharp> anyway, if I will not risk anything I can just proceed and try
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2761 [19:57:19] <mnuhmnuh> fSharp: i don't want to dig thru your chroot-to-ubuntu; what's the prob? you can tell the system where to mount it in /etc/fstab, and it'll persist.
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2763 [19:57:51] <mnuhmnuh> not sure if gnome honors fstab ...
2764 [19:58:02] <fSharp> mnuhmnuh, it is not my question
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2767 [19:59:24] <fSharp> ok I proceeded and chroot worked
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2771 [20:00:46] <ksk> fSharp: it might be the gnome (or whatever DE you use) mounting options differ from whatever that document says. but should normally not be an issue - or you will encounter it following your path
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2779 [20:06:18] <kirk781> Has anyone encountered audio/video losing sync while using BT headphones?
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2792 [20:13:50] <fSharp> ksk, seems all done successfully.
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2802 [20:22:37] <fSharp> thank you all for helping, bye!
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2872 [21:08:31] <twobitsprite> Just curious, does anyone know if Debian plans on migrating to Netplan as the default way to manage networking?
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2875 [21:09:23] <plundra> Highly doubt it.
2876 [21:09:40] <twobitsprite> I just ran in to that issue when upgrading my Ubuntu systems to 18.04 and I'm wondering if I should plan on updating my automation for my Debian systems soon too...
2877 [21:10:04] <twobitsprite> plundra: I do too... but then again, I also doubted Debian would migrate to systemd too :P
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2879 [21:10:35] <apollo13> twobitsprite: ah yeah netplan is annoying :D especially since I need to install ubuntu from the server install because the normal one sucks, then I have to fix netplan to use network manager again :7
2880 [21:11:21] <twobitsprite> apollo13: yeah... took me a couple of hours trying to figure out why my DNS settings in my interfaces file weren't updating my resolv.conf ... :\
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2883 [21:11:43] <apollo13> so long? don't you read release notes XD
2884 [21:12:00] <twobitsprite> apollo13: I did! I must have missed that part :P
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2886 [21:13:04] * mnuhmnuh yo, apt-listchanges, you hear these guys? snicker.
2887 [21:13:17] <twobitsprite> apollo13: (too be fair, the release notes are usually pretty long, so I usually skim looking for relevant stuff... must not have been skimming for breaking changes to basic network configuration that's been the same for over a decade....)
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2902 [21:25:32] <MrScoumoune_> re
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2976 [22:00:29] <padarc> hm. i still have the issue that after a couple hours @ sleep state my laptop gives me a different date&time (only on debian/linux distros, not on windows though) .. I have to set "timedatectl set-ntp" off & on again to fix it.
2977 [22:01:06] <padarc> it only happens after a couple hours, if i resume after a couple minutes, time does not change/stays correct. Anybody has a hint where i can look what is the cause for this?
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2980 [22:02:14] <mnuhmnuh> padarc: dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
2981 [22:03:41] <mnuhmnuh> suspect changes you make in gui are being overridden by those set in system.
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2985 [22:05:06] <padarc> mnuhmnuh, thx, i will try that. I did gave debian the correct timezone etc when i installed it though ...
2986 [22:05:08] <padarc> weird :o
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2988 [22:06:05] <mnuhmnuh> i never heard of timedatectl before. great !@#$%^, now systemd's trying to take over time too.
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2990 [22:06:58] <blackflow> well you can disable it and use ntp, openntpd, chrony. :)
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2992 [22:08:06] <mnuhmnuh> i do use ntp. now i have to track down and kill systemd's interloper? sigh.
2993 [22:09:17] <blackflow> it's not that bad at all, for a default ntp client.
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3002 [22:12:39] <blackflow> inb4 RoyK says I'm full of sht again, I'll repeat myself and state that one should understand and be familiar with the system they're running, for minimum frustration and surprise. systemd is NOT an init replacement. it's a whole new middleware, part of which is init and process management. don't expect it to be a sysv init replacement per se and it will cause less frustration.
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3010 [22:17:09] <inquisitiv3_> I'm having trouble running an extended SMART test using Smartmontools on my SSD. I get the error message "Aborted by host" almost immediately after starting the test using GSmartControl. I get the same error when starting the test with the command `sudo smartctl -t long /dev/sda`, but I don't now if it fails as shortly as when I start it via GSmartControl.
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3015 [22:18:35] <inquisitiv3_> I've read the FAQ entry and linked mail thread here: replaced-url
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3018 [22:19:43] <inquisitiv3_> I've tested to run the suggested loop from the mail thread with `if=/dev/sda`, but I get a permission error.
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3020 [22:20:35] <inquisitiv3_> The same problem occurs when I start the test from a Debian 9.5 LiveUSB as when I start it from the drive itself
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3022 [22:21:23] <inquisitiv3_> The machine is a Thinkpad X230 and the disk is an Intel 835.
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3025 [22:22:00] <inquisitiv3_> Any suggestions on what I can do to successfully run the test?
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3029 [22:22:39] <inquisitiv3_> I've followed the documentation for Ubuntu: replaced-url
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3033 [22:24:50] <RoyK> blackflow: I don't think I've said you're full of brownish things - what's the issue?
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3035 [22:25:43] <blackflow> RoyK: eh nothing. Just saying if one doesn't consider systemd "just an init replacement", it'll be less frustrating using it and getting used to its specifics.
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3037 [22:26:03] <blackflow> (it was about systemd having timesyncd and timedatectl)
3038 [22:26:10] <RoyK> blackflow: it's an init replacement
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3040 [22:26:16] <RoyK> or rework of init
3041 [22:26:24] <blackflow> in one small part of it, yes.
3042 [22:26:26] <RoyK> like it or not
3043 [22:26:53] <RoyK> iirc debian supports sysv still
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3045 [22:26:59] <RoyK> if you really want to
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3048 [22:27:31] <RoyK> I didn't like systemd at first either, but it works, and it works well, so I don't care
3049 [22:27:42] <blackflow> systemd does things differently. one cannot expect it to behave the same as sysv did. it's not sysv-ng.
3050 [22:27:52] <apollo13> luckily
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3058 [22:29:06] <blackflow> RoyK: that's exactly what I'm trying to say. If one tries to understand it, it'll be much more rewarding than frustrating.
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3064 [22:30:51] <mnuhmnuh> blackflow: backing up what you say: "... as it ensures a monotonic clock on systems without RTC even if no network is available." man timedatectl
3065 [22:31:06] <mnuhmnuh> added value? eh.
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3069 [22:31:53] <mspe> you got time even on an offline raspberry ^^
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3071 [22:32:20] <blackflow> mnuhmnuh: yeah :)
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3073 [22:34:17] <mnuhmnuh> systemd is lizard brain replacement for init.d, but brings a whole lot more with it that init.d didn't bother with. good, bad, different?
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3076 [22:34:55] <blackflow> all of it
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3096 [22:50:14] <ozzloy> replaced-url
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3099 [22:51:16] <ozzloy> i tried apt-get remove --purge openjdk-9-jdk && apt-get install -y openjdk-8-jdk
3100 [22:51:29] <ozzloy> also tried apt-get purge openjdk-9-jdk...
3101 [22:51:59] <ozzloy> apt-get reports that openjdk-9-jdk isn't installed, but when i do java --version, it says java 9
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3104 [22:52:41] <oerheks> ozzloy, sudo update-alternatives --config java # and choose openjdk8
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3106 [22:53:32] <klys> java is part of your jre. the jdk has to be the same version as your jre.
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3119 [22:57:25] <ozzloy> cool, thanks
3120 [22:57:33] <ozzloy> appears to be working now
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3134 [23:07:43] <Sokomine> hi
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3138 [23:09:27] <Sokomine> didn't really get any further with my boot problems :-(. anyone here who might have an idea at least how to search/ask when initramfs doesn't make the slightest attempt to ask for the pw for the encrypted root partion (probably because it doesn't detect any disks...), /dev/sd?? are completely missing in initramfs....
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3142 [23:10:14] <ozzloy> oerheks, klys: thanks!
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3150 [23:14:09] <jhutchins> Sokomine: You might be able to recover your data by booting to something like a live image that has encryption support and mounting the encrypted partition. That should prompt for the password.
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3156 [23:15:39] <Sokomine> jhutchins: accessing the data is not the problem. i'm trying to move my system to a new disk. i can perfeclty well mount it manually with losetup /dev/loop1; cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/loop1 cryptedroot; mount -o rw -o noatime /dev/mapper/cryptedrout /target
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3158 [23:16:34] <blackflow> Sokomine: do you have a crypttab?
3159 [23:16:56] <Sokomine> just no matter what i try - boot fails. grub asks for the pw of the encrypted partition, apparently reads it (to get that debian background image) and then offers me the boot menu. when i try to boot, there are no /dev/sda*, /dev/disk/by-uuid/* files etc :-(
3160 [23:17:02] <Sokomine> yes, i do. i hope it's correct
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3164 [23:18:33] <blackflow> Sokomine: what was the original problem post?
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3167 [23:19:10] <Sokomine> crypttab says: cryptedroot UUID=4a5ed2eb-8685-4b6a-9968-dc7b242ab7d0 none luks and the uuid is the one blkid gives for /dev/sdb2 (which is the partition holding the encrypted fs)
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3169 [23:19:24] <Sokomine> blackflow: er, i asked some days ago
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3171 [23:19:58] <blackflow> Sokomine: but what's the problem, encrypted root not being asked to unlock?
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3175 [23:21:00] <Sokomine> blackflow: that's right. when i try to boot, grub asks nicely for the pw (at least one variant of grub.cfg). but then boot fails and no devices are detected. which might be the reason why no key is asked for...
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3178 [23:21:39] <Simonious> followed the instructionshere: replaced-url
3179 [23:21:40] <Sokomine> initramfs does not detect /dev/sdb2 or any other harddisk like devices at all
3180 [23:22:01] <blackflow> Sokomine: also add ,initramfs right after "luks". Not sure which version is affected, and whether it's also Debian or just Ubuntu, but there's an issue where initramfs tools require that to realize the container should be unlocked during boot.
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3182 [23:23:26] <Sokomine> blackflow: will try that. i've mounted the new, encrypted system and chrooted there
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3186 [23:23:38] <blackflow> Sokomine: don't forget to update-intramfs when you change crypttab
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3190 [23:25:11] <Sokomine> blackflow: is there a safe way so that i can be sure that it really ought to boot? after all it's a standard debian kernel (newest for stable) and nothing really fancy in that regard
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3194 [23:26:53] <blackflow> Simonious: can you pastebin `parted /dev/sdb unit s print` ?
3195 [23:27:07] <Simonious> do you mean sda?
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3197 [23:27:27] <blackflow> Simonious: oh yes sorry
3198 [23:27:55] <Simonious> 1 8192s 31277231s 31269040s primary
3199 [23:28:23] <Simonious> replaced-url
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3203 [23:29:55] <blackflow> Simonious: oh there's just sda1? Hmm... not sure what's the cause of that then. So you expanded the partition (just increased size, you didn't change where it starts, right?), and then ran resize2sf and boom?
3204 [23:30:04] <Simonious> correct
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3209 [23:31:32] * Sokomine takes Simonious' sda1 and plugs it into her initramfs...
3210 [23:31:34] <blackflow> Simonious: run `partprobe` and try resize2fs again?
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3212 [23:32:11] <blackflow> Sokomine: not sure about "safe way", it just works for me. crypttab, update-initramfs, done.
3213 [23:32:14] <Sokomine> blackflow: ah. seems i get the "lvm is not available" loop again
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3217 [23:33:17] <blackflow> Sokomine: try adding GRUB_PRELOAD_MODULES="lvm" in /etc/default/grub and update-grub.
3218 [23:33:38] <Sokomine> blackflow: thing is...i don't use lvm. at least not consciously
3219 [23:34:12] <Sokomine> in that way my setup varies from that often found on the net
3220 [23:34:47] <blackflow> Sokomine: what exactly is the setup/layout?
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3225 [23:36:53] <Sokomine> blackflow: directly encrypted partition without lvm involved. i mount it via losetup /dev/loop1 /dev/sdb2; cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/loop1 cryptedroot; mount -o rw -o noatime /dev/mapper/cryptedroot /target
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3227 [23:37:22] <Sokomine> more or less the same way as if it'd be an encrypted file as such
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3231 [23:38:32] <blackflow> Sokomine: why via loopdev?
3232 [23:38:39] <Sokomine> what puzzles me is that there are still no harddisk-like devices in initramfs. surely there ought to? even if it's a problem with the cryptographic setup the partitions ought to be accessible at least...
3233 [23:39:12] <blackflow> I think you're confusing update-grub with that loopdev.
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3235 [23:39:35] <Sokomine> blackflow: er...good question. might in this case work without the loop device. i just use the same mount script for file-based encrypted images
3236 [23:40:01] <blackflow> yeah, note that update-grub creates the menu from autodetected devices for /(root) and /boot
3237 [23:40:14] <blackflow> intramfs hooks too methinks
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3241 [23:42:00] <Sokomine> but...does it even see that loop-device setup inside the chroot environment?
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3243 [23:42:35] *** Quits: LeandroLuiz (~clkalw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3244 [23:42:36] *** Quits: smolboye (~smolboye@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3245 [23:42:37] <blackflow> Sokomine: yup, via mtab
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3247 [23:43:10] *** Joins: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip )
3248 [23:43:46] <Sokomine> ok. might cause some confusion then. let's give it a try :-)
3249 [23:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1606
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3251 [23:45:25] <Sokomine> what's the best way to let grub generate a config? dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-4.16.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 did already claim to have built a new initramfs
3252 [23:45:57] *** Joins: LeandroLuiz (~clkalw@replaced-ip )
3253 [23:46:05] <Sokomine> just update-grub ?
3254 [23:46:22] <blackflow> yes, but I'd run update-initramfs -u first
3255 [23:46:45] <blackflow> initramfs alwys before grub on new installations as update-grub has to detect the initramfs image
3256 [23:47:10] *** Quits: jasmith (~jasmith@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3257 [23:47:45] *** Quits: wall4ss (~smuxi@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3258 [23:48:07] <blackflow> Sokomine: to be sure, you can check the grub.cfg menu and verify that root UUId, in vmlinuz line, is the same as /dev/mapper/cryptedroot, and search line has uuid for /boot
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3273 [23:54:44] <Sokomine> blackflow: there is progress! i'm asked for the pw now. just unlocking doesn't seem to work yet. either i mistyped or it's a parameter failiure. but that's definitely progress
3274 [23:55:15] *** Joins: nullbyte_ (~nullbyte@replaced-ip )
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3278 [23:56:29] *** Joins: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip )
3279 [23:57:30] <Sokomine> blackflow: it is booting! thank you. you seem to have been the one who was able to solve my problem :-)) thanks a lot!
3280 [23:57:40] <blackflow> you're welcome.
3281 [23:58:41] * Sokomine jumps around happily
3282 [23:58:47] *** Quits: kahiru (~kahiru@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3283 [23:59:34] <Sokomine> just typed the pw too many times that i mistype now most of the time :/
3284 [23:59:51] *** Quits: xh0g (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost terminal)
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