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• 100[00:59:23] <graff> i am wanting to upgrade my debian system
• 101[00:59:25] <graff> replaced-url
• 102[00:59:37] <graff> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
• 103[00:59:43] <graff> does this seem correct?
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• 105[00:59:56] <graff> we've used apt-get not aptitude, so I figure we should stick with it
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• 107[01:00:28] <HeXiLeD> what would be the lightest browser available on debian repos that works with flash and ajax ?
• 108[01:00:29] <graff> all I care about is getting the relevant security updates. not interested versions or features
• 109[01:00:47] <graff> as in, if possible I;d prefer to not upgrade to a whole new release
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• 128[01:17:51] <foul_owl> Whats the canonical tool for floating ip failover? keepalived? Or something else?
• 129[01:18:00] <foul_owl> Just trying to set up an HA ssh bastion
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• 134[01:25:27] <mnuhmnuh> graff_: which release are you using?
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• 136[01:26:27] <mnuhmnuh> that is the correct command; i use apt-get myself.
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• 138[01:27:47] <mnuhmnuh> lsb_release -a
• 139[01:28:02] <graff_> thank you
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• 141[01:28:10] <graff_> still trashed our gitlab installation though
• 142[01:28:28] <graff_> not debian's fault. just gitlab's coordination with the upgrading
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• 144[01:28:54] <graff_> sorting out the mess now. we're going to need to find a CI with less dependencies
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• 148[01:29:12] <ifrah> Hi
• 149[01:29:21] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: it is debian 9. stetch I think
• 150[01:30:08] <graff_> will get more info in a bit, feeling despondent about having my site down
• 151[01:30:21] <mnuhmnuh> see the manpage for apt-get. there's a couple or three "upgrade" types you can do.
• 152[01:30:34] <graff_> even backups didn't work this time, so somethign left some residue that will need to be deleted out before they can take
• 153[01:31:13] <mnuhmnuh> !tea graff.
• 154[01:31:14] * dpkg hands graff. a nice lukewarm little porcelain cup of tea with milk.
• 155[01:31:17] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: yeah, that is a bit confusing. i should be practicing daily upgrades on less critical servers so i can get the hang of it and know what is an error to report to whom
• 156[01:31:23] <graff_> :p
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• 162[01:35:24] <CodeHunter> Debian only shows up to 1024x768 resolution, but my monitor has a max resolution of 1600x1200. I used xrandr to force it to use 1600x1200, but running some programs like VLC, wine programs, and others the programs are quite large as if it is still using the lower 1024x768 resolution. Is there any way to correct this?
• 163[01:35:29] <mnuhmnuh> i may be confing apt-get w apt; the former has upgrade and dist-upgrade (i use this) apt has more option? checking.
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• 166[01:36:36] <mnuhmnuh> no, apt uses full-upgrade instead of dist- ...
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• 169[01:37:49] <DunningFreddyKru> is the debdelta / localepurge situation fixed yet?
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• 174[01:39:46] <CodeHunter> Is my description understandable?
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• 178[01:41:42] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: there should be 1 way to do this
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• 180[01:41:56] <graff_> not 3^3
• 181[01:42:09] <graff_> which is how many ways there currently appear to be
• 182[01:42:18] <mnuhmnuh> seen distrowatch lately?
• 183[01:42:21] <graff_> well, 3*3
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• 186[01:43:10] <Tom-_> CodeHunter, yeah i think it's understandable
• 187[01:43:20] <mnuhmnuh> KISS - apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade
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• 214[02:04:45] <stochastix> Do the ZFS packages have encryption enabled in the Debian 9 repos?
• 215[02:05:15] <stochastix> As in, the newish encryption feature in ZFS
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• 224[02:16:41] <graff_> alright I got the backups to take.
• 225[02:16:48] <graff_> any ideas on how to try this again?
• 226[02:17:15] <graff_> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade didn't cut it
• 227[02:17:39] <graff_> gitlab was left looking a backwards hacked 90s web page viewd upside down in a mirror
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• 229[02:17:44] <graff_> kind of didn't work
• 230[02:18:03] <graff_> error report came up and then finally errored out itself saying it could not make it
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• 232[02:19:01] <graff_> my impression is that "dist" means that it will upgrade to never releases of debian if need be?
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• 234[02:19:14] <graff_> if that is the case, i feel that i'd like to avoid that
• 235[02:20:17] <graff_> oh, it has nothing to do with crossing releases
• 236[02:20:26] <graff_> alright I am going to try normal upgrade
• 237[02:20:44] * graff_ holds nose and goes back under.. wish me luck
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• 243[02:24:55] <blackflow> stochastix: I don't think so. It's _very_ experimental feature btw.
• 244[02:25:21] <mnuhmnuh> graff_: yeah, sometimes indiv. pkgs are held back by related pks, si dist-upgrade to go forward all together (replacing old).
• 245[02:26:22] <mnuhmnuh> i don't see much of that in stable, lots in testing.
• 246[02:26:26] <DunningFreddyKru> anyone here use deb deltas?
• 247[02:26:32] <stochastix> blackflow: Thanks, I didnt know it was considered very experimental still. Will have to wait then :)
• 248[02:27:15] <blackflow> stochastix: use LUKS under it?
• 249[02:27:18] <DunningFreddyKru> can i dpkg exclude dirs from deb deltas and can i dpkg exclude kernel modules after removal?
• 250[02:27:28] <stochastix> blackflow: Yea, will have to do that.
• 251[02:28:06] <graff_> btw, i had to *delete* /opt and re-restore just to get my contributor pictures to not look like like reflections from the 7th ring of hell
• 252[02:28:18] <graff_> just imagine what residue was left elsewhere that I don't even know about
• 253[02:28:30] <graff_> using tar for backups btw, maybe there is a way to make it handle that
• 254[02:28:44] <graff_> (not portable though ofc probably)
• 255[02:29:13] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: to the best of my knoweldge no such thing is supported, so you may want to head to OFTC and find a more developer type channel to ask about it, or try the mailinglists this channel is for user support of debian stable
• 256[02:30:21] <rant> implementation of delta upgrades would require drastic changes to our system
• 257[02:30:34] <DunningFreddyKru> uhhhh
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• 260[02:31:16] <graff_> and now gitlab's debian update server is down <.<
• 261[02:31:29] <DunningFreddyKru> I'm not sure how to tell you this but it exists. replaced-url
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• 263[02:32:55] <CodeHunter> Is there any way to fix it so programs use the higher resolution I have set up?
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• 265[02:33:17] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you did quite well at telling me. :D
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• 267[02:33:22] <rant> ,i debdelta
• 268[02:33:23] <judd> Package debdelta (devel, optional) in stretch/amd64: diff and patch utilities which work with Debian packages. Version: 0.59; Size: 103.9k; Installed: 396k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 269[02:33:52] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: this is news to me. perhaps you should just ask your question here then, rather than asking to ask
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• 272[02:34:15] <DunningFreddyKru> It also works over the onions
• 273[02:34:50] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: though I would say that you'd still be better served on OFTC in a more developer centric channel, as this is more a developer kinda tool and not likely to be well known here
• 274[02:34:53] <DunningFreddyKru> The problem is it keeps re-downloading language and other dpkg excluded content
• 275[02:35:01] <DunningFreddyKru> what is OFTC
• 276[02:35:31] <graff_> /connect irc.oftc.net
• 277[02:35:48] <graff_> it's a network that wasn't started by debian developers
• 278[02:35:55] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: OFTC is another IRC network where irc.debian.org points to now, and where all the official channels are. This is the old legacy support channel, and still the larger debian stable support, but its no longer oicial
• 279[02:36:02] <graff_> because they didn't think that freenode had issues
• 280[02:36:13] <rant> graff_: heh
• 281[02:36:30] <rant> graff_: thats a bit misleading, but amusing to me
• 282[02:36:50] <stochastix> blackflow: Im curious if you might know, ZFS if, directly on the hardware, can correct the data because of checksums. If on top of LUKS, does this get inhibited, just as if ZFS was not on hardware like on top of RIAD, or in a VM or something?
• 283[02:37:31] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: things like the debian-installer, mentors, testing/unstable, and other debian support channels are all on OFTC, I'm not trying to be an ass, I seriously think you'd be more likely to get help there
• 284[02:37:32] <blackflow> stochastix: data checksumming works regardless of the underlying medium
• 285[02:37:43] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: believe me, I'd rather people come here :P
• 286[02:38:30] <stochastix> I know that it can tell you if the checksums show corruption, but i read that unless the volume manager has physical access to the drive, it is kind of crippled .
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• 289[02:38:47] <stochastix> Perhaps this was incorrect info i hope?
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• 292[02:39:17] <blackflow> stochastix: you read wrong. it's not about direct physical access to HDDs, it's about ZFS having multiple disks an managing redundancy ITSELF, as opposed to it using a SIGNLE device managed by hw raid or another mapper
• 293[02:39:33] <DunningFreddyKru> If things aren't well supported they should just be removed
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• 295[02:40:06] <blackflow> stochastix: and in fact, ZFS has no idea if something is HDD, SSD, a partition, a loopback device, CDROM or a figment of its imagination with a truncate'd file, or gnop on FreeBSD :)
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• 299[02:40:51] <stochastix> blackflow: I see, so even if you give ZFS multiple virtual disks in a VM, it can still manage data using checksums and make corrections when needed?
• 300[02:41:01] <blackflow> stochastix: absolutely.
• 301[02:41:07] <stochastix> Oh nice.
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• 303[02:41:29] <blackflow> it just needs redundancy (enough copies). in fact, it even works with copies=2 on single disk vdev
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• 305[02:42:29] <blackflow> stochastix: btw, being CoW, make sure those virtual disks are raw and not qcow or something, for best performance.
• 306[02:42:45] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: true, but as I said this is a legacy kinda channel, I been here since 2003 when freenode became freenode and when this was still where irc.debian.org pointed. I personally obviously dont know how to help you and I believe from being here so long that not many others will either. This tool you speak of is a development tool, we are largely users here.. the developers are on OFTC, and may be
• 307[02:42:51] <rant> able to assist you better. I'm just trying to give you the best advice I can
• 308[02:43:14] <stochastix> Why do i see then sometimes people saying that ZFS volume manager prefers physical disks, so if you have a raid card that the drives are going through, to make sure that it supports pass through, rather than just even creating a bunch of single disks controlled by the HW raid controller?
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• 310[02:43:54] <stochastix> Maybe there was another reason for that all together?
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• 313[02:44:12] <CodeHunter> I created a script to have the computer create and change resolution to 1600x1200, but programs like VLC still act as if I am running 1024x768. Is there any way to correct this? Also can I make it so it makes the change permanent without having to run the script after a reboot/logoff?
• 314[02:44:26] <blackflow> stochastix: I thought I explained why. it's not about physical disks, it's about redundancy. if you put ZFS on a single mapped deviced backed by HW raid on multiple physical disks, ZFS has no redundancy, it sees only ONE device.
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• 316[02:45:12] <blackflow> stochastix: so if you have HW raid, you put it in stripe or JBOD mode so it the OS and ZFS sees individual devices.
• 317[02:45:23] <stochastix> blackflow: I wasnt referring to giving it a single mapped device, but rather JBOD right
• 318[02:45:49] <stochastix> Some people say that even JBOD is not good enough.
• 319[02:45:50] <blackflow> stochastix: as long as ZFS knows about mutliple disks in a vdev, it can manage redundant data cheksums.
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• 323[02:46:06] <blackflow> stochastix: they don't know what they're talking about.
• 324[02:46:08] <stochastix> Just trying to figure out the details of why people were saying that.
• 325[02:46:21] <blackflow> should ask them to explain.
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• 328[02:46:50] <blackflow> I mean, ZFS does data checksums even on single disks. it's just that without redundancy, it has no clue how to fix corruption.
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• 332[02:47:14] <CodeHunter> If there is no answer to be found here, is there another room in which to ask?
• 333[02:47:20] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you can find Paul Wise (pabs) in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net and I believe he's the one responsible for that
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• 335[02:47:35] <blackflow> stochastix: I suppose it's one of those common myths, like the "Scrub of Death", that just persist with nobody actually understanding the situation.
• 336[02:47:37] <rant> he's there daily and usually quite helpful
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• 338[02:47:46] <DunningFreddyKru> ty
• 339[02:47:54] <stochastix> Yea, thats what Im wondering
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• 341[02:48:37] <graff_> rant: practicing my backronyms. glad you enjoyed it
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• 343[02:49:06] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: well I may be mistaken he's the one who maintains that but w/e the other devs hang out there too and any of them would know more about it than most of us here
• 344[02:49:36] <graff_> oftc is really more the place for complex development questions
• 345[02:49:50] <graff_> like anything having to do with dpkg on that level
• 346[02:49:52] <rant> yeah debdelta isn't something the average user will be ooling with
• 347[02:50:57] <rant> personally what I've just read about it, it sounds silly to me.. I dont see why you'd want to download only the changes.. but I'm thinking from a user not a dev standpoint
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• 349[02:51:43] <graff_> there is also #debian-devel there and #debian-offtopic. the latter being probably one of the best all purpose irc chats there is
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• 351[02:51:56] <graff_> if you can control yourself a bit. i used to enjoy hanging out there
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• 357[02:52:05] <DunningFreddyKru> graff i am asking about dpkg
• 358[02:52:05] <blackflow> stochastix: as an example, people often state ZFS should use raw disk and not a partition, oblivious to the fact (which is easily testable), that given a raw disk, ZFS will implicitly create GPT partitioning.
• 359[02:52:10] <graff_> DunningFreddyKru: sorry
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• 362[02:52:23] <DunningFreddyKru> because dpkg exclude is how localepurge works
• 363[02:52:38] <stochastix> blackflow: Yea lol
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• 366[02:53:02] <blackflow> stochastix: meaning, it's better if you partition it yourself first, at least you have control over it, and in case of multiple disks can give partitions smaller than raw disk size, so you don't get bogged down in exact number of sectors needed for replacement drives.
• 367[02:53:35] <graff_> what do you guys use zfs for anyway, don't need backups right?
• 368[02:53:45] <graff_> it has some fancy mechanism for that?
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• 370[02:54:15] <graff_> i still use ext4 and then tar for backups, rsync for /home
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• 374[02:54:56] <stochastix> blackflow: Good point, if your new drives look just a little smaller, screwed lol
• 375[02:55:04] <michael2> I have some log files in a dir: [access.log, access.log.1, access.log.2.gz] does anyoone know how I can concatenate these into a single stream?
• 376[02:55:32] <michael2> with the order preserved
• 377[02:55:42] <blackflow> stochastix: yeah, I think some drives include reserve sectors in total reported size, and some don't, or something like that, so it can happen that same rated disks (eg, both 1TB) from different providers actually have different number of sectors.
• 378[02:55:58] <graff_> michael2: are they all .gz?
• 379[02:56:06] <foul_owl> Does debian still use denyhosts?
• 380[02:56:08] <graff_> btw, not exactly useful, but there is zcat
• 381[02:56:48] <graff_> which is just like cat, but with gzip libraries that allow it to decompress .gz
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• 384[02:57:15] <michael2> graff_: no, they are as I've described
• 385[02:57:39] <DunningFreddyKru> ok so i'm on that oftc server
• 386[02:57:42] <RoyK> blackflow: all drives have reserve sectors
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• 390[02:57:46] <DunningFreddyKru> what channels other than debian-mentors
• 391[02:57:57] <graff_> hmm, kind of sucks that zcat doesn't automatically habdle non-.gz too
• 392[02:58:24] <michael2> graff_: yep it totally sucks
• 393[02:58:25] <blackflow> RoyK: I know, not what I was talking about tho'.
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• 395[02:58:45] <michael2> does anyone know of any alternatives to zcat?
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• 397[02:59:18] <RoyK> when you see "current pending sectors" rising up to 10 - well - time to replace the drive
• 398[02:59:40] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: idk them all as I didn't agree with the switch and tend to boycott OFTC many of us here are still rather sore over it.. but you can always connect to OFTC and check their listing for debian channels.. there are a LOT of them
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• 400[02:59:42] <blackflow> RoyK: what I meant was some drives will simply be larger than they're rated for, and some will not include the reserve sectors in reported sector count. at least that's my understanding of the difference between sector count for same rated disks. I'll be happy to stand corrected.
• 401[03:00:46] <blackflow> also the actual raw count of reallocated sectors depends on the vendor. some swear it's okay to have > 0 of those, and some state if you see >0, start planning replacement as they proliferate fast.
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• 403[03:00:59] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you can also consult our wiki replaced-url
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• 405[03:01:19] <RoyK> blackflow: that's probably quite correct - they overspec them a bit, both spinning rust and ssdss and use the excess space for safety
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• 407[03:01:52] <graff_> michael2: hypothetically globs are alphabetized sort of.
• 408[03:01:54] <graff_> for i in * ; do case "$i" in *.gz) zcat "$i" ;; *) cat "$i" ;; esac ; done
• 409[03:01:58] <RoyK> blackflow: reallocated sectors aren't bad - pending sectors are
• 410[03:02:12] <blackflow> RoyK: pending are just those waiting to be reallocated on next fail
• 411[03:02:16] <graff_> there is something to get you started. but in reality it will need to use POSIX `find' in order to be any good
• 412[03:02:33] <blackflow> often a "solution" is to write over the entire disk a few times forcing the firmware to reallocate them.
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• 414[03:03:14] <RoyK> well, if you have 200 pending sectors on a disk, perhaps to make sure your last backup was successful
• 415[03:03:40] <graff_> exapnding globs against patterns is *ok* as long you are trying to match file names
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• 417[03:03:56] <graff_> if you are trying to match strings though, it has to be in a script with set -f
• 418[03:03:59] <blackflow> I'd say _always_ make sure your backups are successful :) there are plenty of other.... scenarios.... that render your disks useless.
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• 420[03:04:08] <graff_> or it will expand against the names in the filesystem
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• 424[03:06:41] <michael2> graff_: you are pretty much a genius :) that shell command is good enough, I'm not trying to match strings or anything
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• 427[03:08:28] <graff_> for all ostensible purposes, until you find a real one
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• 496[03:44:52] <CodeHunter> IS there any room I can join to get help with graphics issues?
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• 504[03:48:02] <CodeHunter> I am trying to find out why running 1600x1200 some programs act as if I am running in 1024x768 and the programs appear quite large. Although that is nice in that it is easier to see, I would like for it to appear properly.
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• 513[03:51:03] <graff_> anyone else here use gitlab with this mirror replaced-url
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• 516[03:51:27] <graff_> i know generally we are supposed to use official debian software only, but I had to go with whatever the people who installed it used
• 517[03:51:56] <graff_> anyway, this gitlab debian mirror appears down for me. and not sure if botched up my restore from backup
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• 519[03:52:10] <graff_> or if they have down server or moved
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• 533[03:58:03] <blackflow> graff_: deb replaced-url
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• 535[03:58:33] <blackflow> and 11.0.4 available for upgrade.
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• 537[03:58:46] <graff_> what the heck is happening with my system then
• 538[03:59:09] <graff_> the restores from backup must have botched up some of apt's keys
• 539[03:59:21] <graff_> thanks blackflow
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• 541[03:59:29] *** littlebit1 is now known as littlebit
• 542[03:59:31] <graff_> blackflow: what do you mean by "it's on stretch"
• 543[03:59:36] <graff_> mine says stretch as well
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• 545[04:00:06] <blackflow> graff_: the system is Debian stretch. I tstarted as jessie, hence the apt source line. I never had to update it for stretch it seems.
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• 547[04:00:41] <graff_> blackflow: can yu try changing it to stretch and see if an update will still run?
• 548[04:00:50] <graff_> sorry to ask, but I am getting desperate here
• 549[04:01:05] <graff_> it seems like I have created a partially restored frankensystem
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• 554[04:01:32] <blackflow> graff_: yup, works.
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• 556[04:01:40] <graff_> wow, thank you
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• 564[04:03:28] <twb> When I do "ionice -c3 chrt --idle 0 sleep infinity", where are those properties visible in /proc/$(pidof sleep)/ ?
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• 568[04:05:06] <random_auroras> Is there a stability reason that btrfs-dedup is not available in Debian stable or is it simply that it wasn't included when stable was frozen?
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• 570[04:05:37] <twb> random_auroras: when was it added to btrfs-tools ?
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• 572[04:06:06] <random_auroras> twb: Ah, I'm not sure. Though I suppose it might have been added too late, since jdupes is in stable.
• 573[04:06:18] <neokuze> its posible to repair a debian os, after make this commandline? "sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /"
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• 575[04:06:54] <rant> neokuze: that would depend on the filesysem and what you had to boot from
• 576[04:07:03] <rant> but its not likely
• 577[04:07:38] <neokuze> ok
• 578[04:08:32] <twb> random_auroras: if it's part of btrfs-tools and not third-party, is there a backport?
• 579[04:08:43] <rant> people have survived gunshots to he head, but I wouldn't recommend trying it :P
• 580[04:08:46] <twb> random_auroras: 4.4 -> 4.7bpo
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• 582[04:09:05] <twb> sorry, that's jessie. stretch has 4.7 -> 4.13bpo
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• 585[04:09:44] <twb> I think that's the old package name as well, because I don't see it in buster or sid
• 586[04:09:45] * graff_ just randomly typed `make clean' not knowing what else to do
• 587[04:09:51] <graff_> wtf heh
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• 589[04:10:02] <random_auroras> twb: Hm, it's not in the changelogs... so it might be an arch-specific thing.
• 590[04:10:47] <twb> random_auroras: AFAIK dedupping would have to work by basically finding two identical files and cp --reflink=always x y
• 591[04:11:01] <twb> random_auroras: I don't see how you can post-facto dedup at the block level, in btrfs, from userland
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• 594[04:12:48] <Raybih> The largest nontrinitarian Christian denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), Jehovah's Witnesses
• 595[04:12:52] <random_auroras> twb: There's a call for it. replaced-url
• 596[04:13:23] <random_auroras> twb: In fact, I prefer dedup to be batched/offline.
• 597[04:14:15] <twb> random_auroras: it really depends whether you can afford the downtime :-)
• 598[04:14:59] <random_auroras> twb: Yeah, it's for my home stuff. I'm not sure it's quite stable enough for work production stuff... though said work servers could certainly afford the RAM for online dedup way more than I can.
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• 601[04:15:53] <random_auroras> Then again, if one doesn't use the features marked as "unstable" it's probably safe.
• 602[04:16:16] <twb> random_auroras: I think you're thinking of ZFS?
• 603[04:16:32] <twb> random_auroras: and even there, the manpage very clearly says "do not turn this on, it's a Bad Thing, you will be sad if you turn it on"
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• 606[04:16:43] <random_auroras> twb: Yeah. ZFS has online dedup currently. btrfs only marks it as "to be done".
• 607[04:16:58] <random_auroras> There's patches that do it but they're WIP.
• 608[04:17:27] <twb> My point is, even on ZFS, dedup sucks
• 609[04:17:40] <random_auroras> I heard ZFS on Linux has bad support due to license issues.
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• 611[04:18:08] <twb> ZFS and Linux can't be shipped together due to deliberate license incompatibility; Oracle can fix this anytime they want.
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• 613[04:18:30] <random_auroras> Ah. Typical really.
• 614[04:18:42] <twb> In *theory* if that happened, ZFS could be mainlined and then it might be more "native" as a side effect
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• 617[04:19:11] <twb> Currently it is going via SPL, which AIUI is basically the kernel equivalent of wine
• 618[04:19:27] <random_auroras> That's less than ideal.
• 619[04:19:57] <twb> AIUI the main impact is that Solaris and Linux memory models are different enough that ugliness ensues
• 620[04:20:06] <graff_> Raybih: thanks for the random update
• 621[04:20:21] <random_auroras> twb: Oh I see. Unfortunate.
• 622[04:20:24] <twb> The other problem I have with ZOL, in practice, is that ZFS assumes you're an enterprise user
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• 624[04:20:43] <random_auroras> Double the pool, surely you can afford it ~.
• 625[04:21:07] <twb> so e.g. it just assumes that all storage in its pool is spinning rust and spinning at the same speed
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• 627[04:22:08] <random_auroras> That would be a problem for any non-new system.
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• 629[04:22:31] <twb> random_auroras: well you don't normally mix 15K SAS and 7200 SATA
• 630[04:23:26] <random_auroras> I'm thinking more 5200 vs 7200rpm.
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• 633[04:25:07] <twb> The current situation, where ZFS can't be mainlined, and btrfs is still FUDded, is less than ideal :-(
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• 635[04:25:46] <twb> My prod stuff is *still* using md/lvm/ext4 stack
• 636[04:26:16] <random_auroras> Yeah. I really wish for btrfs to stabilize parity.
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• 638[04:26:23] <twb> Which is primarily annoying because I have to rsync --link-dest instead of just send/recv.
• 639[04:26:37] <random_auroras> Though being able to detect corruption would be very helpful on its own.
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• 641[04:27:07] <random_auroras> Which is why I was seriously thinking about upgrading a fair few backup/media drives.
• 642[04:27:30] <random_auroras> (btrfs convert)
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• 644[04:27:37] <twb> a modern filesystem is an order of magnitude more complicated than the legacy stack, though, and there's not a generation of people with experience dealing with the new kinds of problems
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• 646[04:28:18] <twb> For example, ZFS allocation method changes at around 80% full, so if you don't get back under 80%, you can rapidly make the entire system unusable
• 647[04:28:56] <random_auroras> That's not fun.
• 648[04:29:00] <twb> another common gotcha is people fill a btrfs to 100% and then can't delete any files, because deleting requires a (small) amount of writes
• 649[04:29:20] <random_auroras> Hm, mount -o remount,nocow ?
• 650[04:29:24] <twb> So some people I know basically make a (non-sparse!) 1GB file in the root
• 651[04:29:39] <twb> so they can truncate -s0 it to get "wiggle room"
• 652[04:29:50] <twb> random_auroras: that might work; I'm not sure
• 653[04:30:22] <twb> If it's just your porn collection I wouldn't bother to btrfs convert
• 654[04:30:36] <random_auroras> Nah, lots of music from some bands that just plain don't exist anymore.
• 655[04:30:39] <random_auroras> The CDs are long dead.
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• 657[04:32:56] <random_auroras> Though even that sort of media can be hard to recover. Torrents of all sorts tend to have a limited lifespan.
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• 659[04:33:28] * random_auroras would probably advocate "Archive All the Things"
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• 707[05:07:54] <m82labs> Anyone using neomutt in here?
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• 740[05:31:24] <baconicsynergy_> hello friends :)
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• 742[05:32:30] <dvs> where?
• 743[05:32:38] <baconicsynergy_> what are some cool debian easter eggs?
• 744[05:32:47] <dvs> apt moo?
• 745[05:32:47] <apt> mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type apt-get moo.
• 746[05:33:06] <baconicsynergy_> apt-get moo
• 747[05:33:41] <baconicsynergy_> oh i see. heehee
• 748[05:33:59] <baconicsynergy_> its so cute <3
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• 750[05:35:45] <somiaj> baconicsynergy_: apt-get moo
• 751[05:36:05] <somiaj> baconicsynergy_: oh got that, aptitude moo, then aptitude -v moo
• 752[05:36:16] <somiaj> and keep adding -vv, -vvv, in order
• 753[05:36:27] <baconicsynergy_> aptitude moo is hilarious with increasing verbosity lololool
• 754[05:37:14] <baconicsynergy_> I love at -vvv its like "Stop it!"
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• 757[05:41:07] <random_auroras> apt-get moo
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• 769[05:52:42] <twb> apt: I'm pretty sure that's factually incorrect
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• 771[05:53:05] <twb> replaced-url
• 772[05:53:36] <twb> the "methane gas comes out" your mouth, not your arse.
• 773[05:54:21] <rant> idk I seen reports of people making backpack devices for cows to catch the gasses
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• 777[05:54:53] <rant> but really I feel the level of convo has gotten a little silly in here
• 778[05:55:00] <twb> rant: do you trust "reports" more than Wikipedia? ;-)
• 779[05:55:25] <twb> In Australia, CSIRO measure emissions using "fart tents", but I think that's just a nickname
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• 781[05:55:34] <rant> I dont trust anything anymore.. I'm a practical skeptic
• 782[05:56:00] <somiaj> though this should be in #debian-offtopic
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• 784[05:56:56] <twb> Sowwy
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• 791[06:01:44] <BoBeR182> How can I fix this replaced-url
• 792[06:01:45] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 793[06:01:57] <BoBeR182> if I don't know the original person in charge?
• 794[06:02:44] <somiaj> are you the maintainer to that package?
• 795[06:02:52] <BoBeR182> no
• 796[06:03:03] <BoBeR182> but I want to find the maintainer and get them to fix it
• 797[06:03:09] <BoBeR182> I need this for my email server
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• 799[06:03:56] <somiaj> how does this bug stop you from using the package? The bug report has already emailed the maintainer about the bug
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• 801[06:05:33] <BoBeR182> it's not available from the repo
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• 803[06:05:43] <BoBeR182> I'm on buster
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• 805[06:06:05] <somiaj> then get it from sid, but running a server on buster is usually not suggested
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• 807[06:06:25] <BoBeR182> it's not in sid
• 808[06:06:28] <BoBeR182> because of the bug
• 809[06:06:32] <BoBeR182> I tried that already
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• 811[06:06:50] <BoBeR182> replaced-url
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• 813[06:07:07] <somiaj> it is in sid
• 814[06:07:30] <somiaj> the bug just keeps it from migrating to testing, it may be removed from sid if the maintainer doens't update the package though.
• 815[06:07:37] <somiaj> replaced-url
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• 851[06:47:17] <rant> so I been ever so slowly setting up a new install via chroot to a USB-SATA drive, and I /think/ its all ready to go now, just need to setup grub. The current install is to an SSD on /dev/sda, I'd like to install the grub for the new install on the external drive which has a 200mb /boot and encrypted root. I'm really not sure at all how to do it. Any advice?
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• 853[06:48:41] <rant> the fstab/cryptab is all setup but I have nfc how to configure grub here
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• 867[07:05:53] <rant> the main two things I'm unsure of (aside from knowing virtually nothing about grub) is does it need special config for a cryptroot, and how to select the right device (external) to install do as I recall grub-install doesn't accept actual device nodes, uses its own mapping scheme
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• 1051[07:30:42] <klys> can anyone here compile seabios from git clone replaced-url
• 1052[07:31:06] <klys> it should look something like "cd seabios; make"
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• 1109[07:36:01] <rant> cab and will are two different things.. I have no need for it and if I did I'm pretty sure its packaged with qemu already
• 1110[07:36:08] <rant> s/cab/can/
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• 1119[07:37:32] <rant> ,i seabios
• 1120[07:37:33] <judd> Package seabios (misc, extra) in stretch/amd64: Legacy BIOS implementation. Version: 1.10.2-1; Size: 128.1k; Installed: 667k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 1129[07:38:50] <klys> replaced-url
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• 1158[07:48:10] <rant> thats nasty looking
• 1159[07:48:45] <klys> yes it is
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• 1164[07:51:44] <rant> could expect as much given that its a bios and would have a lot of low level stuff
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• 1167[07:52:16] <klys> well I have someone here not using debian claiming it compiles straight out of the box.
• 1168[07:52:35] <rant> why are you compiling it when its packaged?
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• 1170[07:52:50] <rant> it doesnt seem like the kinda thing you need cutting edge
• 1171[07:52:51] <klys> I could compile the packaged version, or try to
• 1172[07:53:28] <klys> it has a "make menuconfig" interface.
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• 1178[07:56:31] <klys> it's giving me the same bravo sierra and I don't see any debian patches.
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• 1197[08:08:01] <rant> I dont see anything sticking out to me.. lots of warnings and it fails on linking that one file wih no clear reason why
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• 1201[08:09:13] <rant> whay can't you just use the packaged version? I'd avoid this headache if I had the option :P
• 1202[08:09:28] <klys> rant, this is from your attempt or my paste?
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• 1204[08:09:33] <rant> C compiler errors make me naseated
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• 1207[08:09:53] <rant> no I didn't try it.. but really there is no reason why I couldn't
• 1208[08:10:09] <rant> other than I dont have any interest in it.. heh
• 1209[08:10:16] <klys> I bet it'd work, just I don't know for sure
• 1210[08:10:18] <rant> but I'm not exactly busy
• 1211[08:10:45] <klys> there is likely a problem with my build system that I can't pin down for now.
• 1212[08:11:10] <twb> klys: I would start by apt-get build-dep seabios, then apt-get source seabios and examine debian/rules and debian/patches for workarounds
• 1213[08:11:31] <twb> klys: even if you intend to use upstream, this usually answers "why isn't upstream working" by examining how someone else already solved it
• 1214[08:11:39] <klys> there are no debian/patches, and my commandline was: debian/rules build
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• 1216[08:11:57] <twb> using upstream's debian/rules or debian's debian/rules ?
• 1217[08:12:03] <klys> debian/s
• 1218[08:12:09] <twb> Dunno then
• 1219[08:12:32] <klys> the compiler and linker seem like they're doing something they shouldn't
• 1220[08:12:48] <twb> klys: you're using gcc8 though?
• 1221[08:12:53] <klys> perticularly the assembler
• 1222[08:12:58] <somiaj> klys: isn't there a ./configure before the make?
• 1223[08:13:00] <twb> debian 9 ships gcc 6.3
• 1224[08:13:08] <klys> I'm using gcc-7, though I have used gcc-8 on this
• 1225[08:13:46] <klys> somiaj, there is an optional make menuconfig, autoconf is not employed, no,
• 1226[08:14:07] <twb> Have you done "apt-get build-dep ./" yet
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• 1228[08:14:45] <twb> debian/rules build ===> [ ! -d .git ] || { echo "Directory .git exists, aborting" >&2; exit 1; }
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• 1232[08:15:19] <rant> klys: yes it compiled cleanly from git on Stretch amd64 here
• 1233[08:15:34] <klys> will paste, though I have been working around perl:any with perl:i386 for some time now.
• 1234[08:15:35] <rant> klys: I already had build tools all build-dep installed was some acpi crap
• 1235[08:15:59] <klys> rant, thanks for checking
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• 1237[08:16:41] <klys> replaced-url
• 1238[08:16:51] <klys> twb, since you asked, ^
• 1239[08:16:53] <twb> I successfully compile seabios/stretch on stretch ==> seabios_1.10.2-1_all.deb
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• 1241[08:17:21] <twb> klys: sounds like your system is broken
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• 1243[08:17:45] <klys> twb, it is officially too broken to do a proper dpkg-buildpackage, though it works like a charm.
• 1244[08:18:12] <rant> klys: replaced-url
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• 1246[08:18:34] <twb> >shrug<
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• 1248[08:18:46] <twb> if apt-get gets that confused, I would fix that before trying to compile things
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• 1253[08:20:10] <klys> I'm using perl:i386 to workaround some irrelevan dependencies and conflicts.
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• 1255[08:20:12] <rant> I thought that was the ouput of apt build-dep seabios as well but I guess I'd done that in another tab while git was cloning
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• 1257[08:21:08] <rant> so I guess twb just rebuild the deb source and I built the git source.. so.. seems like its def a local issue
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• 1259[08:21:33] <twb> rant: I would guess it's e.g. partially upgraded from jessie to stretch, and build-dep tries to finish the upgrade as a side effect
• 1260[08:21:43] <twb> or sources.list is confused
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• 1270[08:28:24] <rant> for future ref, can I always count on a git clone creaing a dir?
• 1271[08:28:41] <rant> I'd made a dir for this not sure if it was gonna dump crap in my homedir
• 1272[08:29:03] <twb> rant: "git clone foo/bar/baz" will generally try to make ./baz
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• 1274[08:29:14] <twb> rant: "git clone foo/bar/baz quux" will generally try to make ./quux
• 1275[08:29:18] <rant> but its not to be assumed?
• 1276[08:29:24] <twb> if you pass extra options, other things might happen
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• 1280[08:31:06] <rant> so to reiterate my earlier issue, can any of you help me install grub in this chroot install I just did? I installed stretch to an external drive with a /boot and cryptroot and want to install grub on that drive not sure how
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• 1283[08:31:41] <rant> I never learned to use grub.. I knew lilo pretty well
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• 1285[08:32:35] <rant> grub is all automagic like, confuses me how to work it in more advanced usages
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• 1291[08:33:56] <rant> I have grub-pc install in there and both fs mounted to /mnt and /mnt/boot and fstab/cryptab setup
• 1292[08:34:08] <twb> rant: that's mostly grub-install and os-prober, not "core" grub
• 1293[08:34:28] <twb> rant: I personally recommend refind (EFI) or extlinux (BIOS) instead of grub
• 1294[08:34:31] <rant> yes but how do I know grub-install will write to the correct drive?
• 1295[08:34:33] <twb> Much easier to manage
• 1296[08:34:37] <twb> rant: that's exactly why
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• 1298[08:35:08] <rant> this system has UEFI but I know nothing about that and my system warns that enabling it may lock me out of other OSes
• 1299[08:35:19] <twb> do you have other OSs?
• 1300[08:35:28] <rant> I got stretch on the ssd, yes
• 1301[08:35:29] <twb> Windows cannot change between legacy and EFI post-install
• 1302[08:35:39] <twb> linux mostly won't care
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• 1304[08:35:57] <twb> just put refind on a USB key and you can try it without writing to your disks at all
• 1305[08:35:59] <rant> I want to keep an install on the ttiny 8gb ssd as a backup/rescue and have my main system on tthe external drive with its own grub
• 1306[08:36:16] <twb> it should automatically find all your installed linuxes with no work, and you just need one-line config file to set the kernel args
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• 1308[08:36:28] <rant> idk what that means.. what is refind?
• 1309[08:36:32] <twb> replaced-url
• 1310[08:36:37] <twb> it does the same job as grub
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• 1312[08:37:17] <rant> I'd prefer to keep both OS seperate.. as one is external disk so I rather the ssd have grub for tthat install and the external have grub for that install
• 1313[08:37:25] <twb> wget --content-disposition replaced-url
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• 1316[08:38:00] <twb> (where sdz is your test USB key)
• 1317[08:38:17] <rant> sounds a bit risky fooling with more stuff I dont know about :P
• 1318[08:38:33] <twb> >shrug<
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• 1320[08:40:36] <klys> ok I have dpkg-dev running and an error, will paste.
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• 1323[08:41:11] <rant> I been slowly piecing together this install for weeks now.. I can wait and hopefully find someone who can tell me how or point me in right direction to just do what I want
• 1324[08:41:15] <klys> replaced-url
• 1325[08:41:49] <rant> fooling with uefi and stuff may break my working install in ways I wont know how to fix
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• 1329[08:43:17] <rant> klys: you never did address why you can't just use the packaged version and avoid this headache :P
• 1330[08:43:58] <rant> klys: what system are you even building on? it built fine for me on Stretch amd64
• 1331[08:44:14] <klys> rant, I'm meaning to address the uefi csm problem by amassing working code to deal with the problem.
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• 1333[08:44:34] <klys> all right, debian-next then
• 1334[08:44:38] <rant> heh
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• 1336[08:46:35] <rant> did they ever make a way to walk back things using apt's history? like how I just installed build-dep for this compile.. or is it just looking in the log and doing it manually?
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• 1338[08:47:22] <klys> you can a) aptitude (?) b) use the log c) apt-get autoremove d) deborphan
• 1339[08:47:48] <rant> would build-deps be considered auto-insalled?
• 1340[08:48:07] <rant> never thought of tha
• 1341[08:48:45] <rant> its not a big deal in this case, since I had most all the build deps installed already it only installed like one little thing, I was just curious
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• 1343[08:49:28] <rant> I just always thought it'd be nice to have a way to easily fool with things (compile) and cleanup the env without so much fuss
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• 1345[08:49:50] <rant> I have a bad habit of poluting my disk with crap like that :P
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• 1347[08:50:33] <rant> and a chroot is kinda overkill takes a lot more space, time to configure, etc
• 1348[08:50:45] <klys> well normal users should be using dselect instead of just apt-get
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• 1350[08:51:10] <rant> I haven't used dselect in over 10 years :P
• 1351[08:51:21] <rant> figured it was deprecated by now
• 1352[08:52:27] <klys> there's that funky synaptic thing if you want a more current ui. as it stands, apt-get is not a ui component.
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• 1354[08:53:00] <rant> yeah I use synaptic a good bit.. its my go-to when I need to browse.
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• 1356[08:53:31] <rant> I only really ever used aptitude when things were so FUBAR I was open to crazy ideas
• 1357[08:53:51] <rant> mostly I used apt-get and I'm warming to use of apt
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• 1361[08:55:29] <rant> I'd resisted using aptitude cause its interactive was a bit confusing and it checked the db before and after making it much slower.. which synaptic does too and I ffind annoying cause most often I just wantt to exit he program after not wait while it reads the db again
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• 1364[08:56:40] <klys> I admire dselect the most out of the bunch, though usually I'm running a huge apt-get commandline if I need anything too important.
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• 1366[08:56:54] <rant> apt is nice but I find its formatting and use of a pager when searching annoying at times.. I liked just specifying sort or less or such myself rather than itt assuming it
• 1367[08:57:34] <rant> apt is certainly less script friendly
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• 1370[08:58:23] <rant> and I'm still not 100% on what all it does automatically
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• 1372[08:58:42] <rant> seems to update, iinsall recomnends, aand clean and such
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• 1374[08:59:17] <rant> automatic stuff is real f'n annoying when you been doing things for a long time and now something is doing all this crap "behid the scenes"
• 1375[08:59:32] <rant> I dont like being unsure of whats going on
• 1376[08:59:53] <rant> which is why I haven't warmed to grub and for a long time had kept using lilo
• 1377[09:00:40] <rant> just got to a point where lilo seemed more difficult to keep using as it simply was lacking features
• 1378[09:00:46] <klys> today would be a good day to confess this: I regularly change perl and perl:any to perl:i386 in my /var/lib/dpkg/status file. I don't think there's anything wrong ith what I've done.
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• 1382[09:00:57] <rant> heh
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• 1384[09:01:39] <rant> klys: just say 3 hail rms, and 4 our linus
• 1385[09:01:51] <klys> :)
• 1386[09:03:01] <rant> I wonder how some of these fathers of our system think of one another I never heard much of like Stallman and Linus speak of one another
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• 1389[09:03:29] <rant> which I assume is good, cause if Linus don't like something you hear about it :P
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• 1435[09:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
• 1436[09:44:53] <siraben> rant: Linus and RMS are not friends
• 1437[09:45:14] <siraben> rant: RMS said so in an interview, because Linus is an "open source" person
• 1438[09:45:35] <siraben> On the other hand, Linus accused RMS of "black and white thinking" because of his very extreme views on free software
• 1439[09:45:35] <siraben> ll
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• 1444[09:48:17] <rant> heh, sounds about right
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• 1451[09:53:02] <hiwurld> the RMS following has become a cult
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• 1453[09:54:09] <siraben> hiwurld: What makes you say that?
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• 1455[09:56:55] *** Joins: Ruebezahl (~Alf@replaced-ip)
• 1456[09:56:55] <babilen> → #debian-offtopic (or just /dev/null) please
• 1457[09:57:23] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
• 1458[09:57:44] <hiwurld> well just an opinion, just based on what I've heard him say and read what his admirers say on random places, don't have an exact example right now
• 1459[09:57:54] *** Joins: OS-39594 (~OS-39594@replaced-ip)
• 1460[09:58:02] <hiwurld> babilen: oh, sorry
• 1461[09:58:39] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1462[09:58:40] <twb> klys: if you are editing /var/lib/dpkg/status by hand, you are likely to break your system
• 1463[09:58:57] *** Quits: OS-39594 (~OS-39594@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1464[09:59:11] <klys> twb, turns out all I needed wsa a gcc downgrade.
• 1465[09:59:21] <twb> righto
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• 1468[09:59:30] <twb> apt only offers one conflict resolution
• 1469[09:59:46] <twb> if you have such issues regularly, consider e.g. aptitude, which lets you micromanage conflict resoluton
• 1470[10:00:02] <twb> it's really hard to show how to do it over irc tho, so I won't bother
• 1471[10:00:10] *** Quits: oneheart (~oneheart@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1472[10:00:17] <rant> I was going to suggest it was a compiler/libc issue but you kept avoiding my questions for w/e reason :P
• 1473[10:00:28] <klys> only when things depend on perl, which is an interpreter and has arch-independent libs.
• 1474[10:00:42] <rant> I guess cause you didnt want to say you weren't using stable
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• 1479[10:06:28] <twb> the only time I deal with multiarch is when cross-compiling (easy) or dealing with proprietary crap (you've already lost)
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• 1484[10:08:43] <KdeKris> I broke it. Totally borked. Luckily I have a bootable usb handy. I blacklisted radeon module from the kernel and ran update-initramfs -u, the rebooted. Attempting to force amdgpu module to take over. Got dropped to cli login. Okay, tried logging in then issue startx. Returned "cannot communicate with xserver". well alrighty then. So I undo the blacklist while in the cli and update-initramfs again. Should fix this right? nope. drop
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• 1488[10:09:20] <KdeKris> So now I'm booted from my thumb drive and wondering how to fix my shit, because I'm getting pretty frustrated with this.
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• 1492[10:10:04] <twb> KdeKris: lspci -nn | grep VGA
• 1493[10:10:24] *** Joins: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip)
• 1494[10:10:38] <KdeKris> I'm on my bootable thumb drive. No lspci command
• 1495[10:10:59] <twb> apt install it then
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• 1497[10:11:16] <KdeKris> unable to locate package
• 1498[10:11:25] <twb> or find some other way to get the name and make:model codes for your video card
• 1499[10:11:40] *** Joins: afidegnum (~afidegnum@replaced-ip)
• 1500[10:11:50] <KdeKris> video card is AMD FirePr 6100m
• 1501[10:11:55] <KdeKris> I could just tell you that.
• 1502[10:12:03] <twb> I don't know what that actually means though
• 1503[10:12:05] <rant> thats irrelevant
• 1504[10:12:18] <twb> by make and model I meant [8086:0a06] (rev 09)
• 1505[10:12:18] *** Quits: erasmus (~erasmus@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1506[10:12:29] <KdeKris> Ah, gotcha.
• 1507[10:12:44] <twb> udevadm can probably tell you
• 1508[10:12:58] <rant> when it comes to us looking up support for hardware we need the vend/prod id codes because thats what the drivers go by to claim something and more than one vend/prod id code can have the same "name"
• 1509[10:13:02] <towo^work> lspci is in pciutils
• 1510[10:13:20] <twb> Anyway that was really just tier 1 helpdesk; I don't know about fixing your system short of undoing the changes you did, and then re-generating the ramdisk --- which you already tried
• 1511[10:13:34] *** Quits: nwm (~nwm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1512[10:13:58] <KdeKris> installing pciutils now.
• 1513[10:14:32] <rant> KdeKris: why were you switching drivers to begin with, was there a problem?
• 1514[10:14:38] <KdeKris> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Saturn XT [FirePro M6100] [1002:6640]
• 1515[10:14:45] <twb> cool
• 1516[10:15:00] *** Joins: emrullah (~emrullah@replaced-ip)
• 1517[10:15:09] <twb> !hcl
• 1518[10:15:09] <dpkg> [hcl] Hardware Compatibility Lists for Linux include replaced-url
• 1519[10:15:11] <KdeKris> Was having issues with new gpu not performing, and everything being run through llvmpipe software rendering instead of hardware rendering
• 1520[10:16:33] <twb> kmuto.jp says the the radeon driver should work on that card for 3.16 onwards
• 1521[10:16:36] *** Joins: border-man (~stepan@replaced-ip)
• 1522[10:18:05] <rant> KdeKris: did you install firmware-amd-graphics? this may be required to use the card fully
• 1523[10:18:06] <KdeKris> That it does. Yet, it does not seem to be working with my machine
• 1524[10:18:27] *** Quits: briner (~briner@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1525[10:18:31] <KdeKris> rant, yes, I had all the correct firmware and packages installed.
• 1526[10:18:38] <rant> mine works without it but only partially
• 1527[10:18:55] <KdeKris> towo^work was awesome yesterday in helping me through all of this.
• 1528[10:19:11] <KdeKris> I definitely owe him/her a beer.
• 1529[10:20:03] <twb> you did "update-initramfs -u" --- suggest "-k all" if you were doing that from a different kernel
• 1530[10:20:33] <twb> When X fails to start, read Xorg.0.log as the first step
• 1531[10:20:42] <rant> KdeKris: modinfo amdgpu | grep 6640 returns nothing on my stretch system, yet modinfo radeon | grep 6640 does
• 1532[10:20:52] <rant> which means amdgpu will not claim that hw
• 1533[10:20:55] <twb> rant: nice
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• 1535[10:21:11] <rant> which explains why you had run into issues blacklisting radeon and forcing amdgpu
• 1536[10:21:21] <KdeKris> I did update-initramfs -u, when blacklisting, and when removing the blacklist
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• 1539[10:22:13] <KdeKris> I'll grab a copy of Xorg.0.log for you, give me a second.
• 1540[10:22:15] <twb> KdeKris: how many kernels are in /boot
• 1541[10:22:20] <twb> 1 or >1 ?
• 1542[10:22:29] <KdeKris> four, I belive
• 1543[10:22:32] <twb> if >1, make sure update-initramfs updated the correct kernel
• 1544[10:22:46] <twb> just check mtimes is probably easiest --- ls -lt
• 1545[10:23:06] <twb> -k all will update ALL ramdisks; -k 4.16.... will do whatever one you ask for
• 1546[10:23:06] <KdeKris> It should have only updated the kernel I was booting with correct?
• 1547[10:23:14] <twb> KdeKris: yeah probably
• 1548[10:23:23] <twb> KdeKris: chroots &c may confuse it
• 1549[10:23:46] <KdeKris> I only had 4.16 booted.
• 1550[10:24:05] <rant> linux kernel drivers work like this, they may be compiled in or loaded dynamically whether or not you have any hw they support, they use aliases which list specific vend/prod id codes which they will "claim" and if those codes arent aliased, the driver will not claim the hw
• 1551[10:24:28] *** Quits: msl09_ (~msl09@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1552[10:24:32] <rant> in this case amdgpu in stretch's kernel will not claim that hw cause its aliased in radeon not amdgpu
• 1553[10:24:42] *** Quits: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip) (Quit: %lagging out...%)
• 1554[10:24:47] <KdeKris> Plus, even if it did screw up all the kernels installed, wouldn't removing the blacklist fix the problem?
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• 1558[10:25:59] *** Joins: bowei_ (uid310704@replaced-ip)
• 1559[10:26:18] <KdeKris> Xorg.0.log replaced-url
• 1560[10:27:03] *** bowei_ is now known as 18WAA1NF6
• 1561[10:27:14] <towo^work> KdeKris, it's normal you can't boot, remoove the config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
• 1562[10:27:32] <towo^work> there you set amdgpu, which does not work for you
• 1563[10:27:43] <towo^work> s/can't boot/can't startx
• 1564[10:27:48] <KdeKris> So that's what's causing the issue?
• 1565[10:27:51] <KdeKris> so simple
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• 1567[10:27:53] <KdeKris> I'm dumb
• 1568[10:28:17] <rant> its trying to load amdgpu which wont claim your card
• 1569[10:28:21] *** Quits: {41444d494e} (~kvirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1570[10:28:33] <rant> I can keep saying it, but it'd be better if you try understand that :P
• 1571[10:29:13] <KdeKris> No, I do understand. I just forgot about the config file.
• 1572[10:29:23] <KdeKris> I have work to do though, so afk for a few.
• 1573[10:29:35] <towo^work> KdeKris, and with xserver-xorg-video-ati package installed, you should not need any x-config file
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• 1578[10:30:09] <rant> though you have a different kernel version than me according to this log, so idk if YOUR kernel will claim it or not
• 1579[10:30:26] <rant> you can reproduce my findings doing those modinfo commands yourself
• 1580[10:30:53] <KdeKris> I just removed the config file. I'm going to try to reboot and see if it works.
• 1581[10:31:32] <KdeKris> Unless anyone has any objections?
• 1582[10:31:43] <rant> you're using 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, I am using the 4.9.0 stock debian stretch kernel
• 1583[10:31:47] *** Joins: Raed|Laptop (~Raed@replaced-ip)
• 1584[10:31:55] <rant> so it wouldnt hurt to check modinfo yourself
• 1585[10:32:01] <KdeKris> 4.16 booted just fine after I first installed it
• 1586[10:32:08] *** Quits: SuperDome (~Spacebase@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1587[10:32:13] <rant> but I think this demonstrates that its the same in this regard
• 1588[10:32:21] *** Joins: SuperDome (SuperDome@replaced-ip)
• 1589[10:32:45] <KdeKris> back in a few, duty calls, then rebooting and checking out modinfo
• 1590[10:32:46] *** Quits: Selveste1 (~Selveste1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1591[10:33:17] <rant> KdeKris: always wipe front to back :d
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• 1602[10:38:10] <klys> replaced-url
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• 1608[10:42:42] <klys> actually, replaced-url
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• 1610[10:43:36] <rant> I been sort of following you this morning and even I dont know the relevance of your repeated mentioning of perl
• 1611[10:44:03] <rant> near as I can tell you been talking about seabios which doesnt seem to have anyhing to do with perl
• 1612[10:44:07] *** Joins: mauz555 (~mauz555@replaced-ip)
• 1613[10:44:17] <klys> rant, I find it's the best way to run amd64 and i386 packages on the same debian.
• 1614[10:45:32] <rant> that only adds confusion to the relevance for me, and honestly I was contemplating a nap.. I was just menioning it cause I figured everyone else may be just as clueless and thus you wont get any traction
• 1615[10:45:59] <klys> I was too, thanks.
• 1616[10:47:07] <klys> rant, seabios compiles, I have everything working with gcc-4.9.
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• 1619[10:47:58] *** Joins: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip)
• 1620[10:48:23] <likcoras> Any general suggestions on setting up forwarding incoming email at my own domain (eg. likcoras@example.com) to my actual address (eg. myaddress@gmail.com)?
• 1621[10:48:47] <likcoras> Also allow me to send email as likcoras@example.com through SMTP, if possible.
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• 1624[10:49:12] *** Joins: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip)
• 1625[10:49:25] <klys> likcoras, procmail?
• 1626[10:49:56] <likcoras> For the first part, right?
• 1627[10:49:58] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1628[10:50:00] <klys> ye
• 1629[10:50:17] <twb> klys: why do you even need i386 perl
• 1630[10:50:42] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 1631[10:50:44] <klys> twb, a minimal system with chroot should be able to be used with an i386 kernel.
• 1632[10:50:49] <likcoras> Will look into, thanks! I've been seeing hits for ssmtp/nullmailer, but these seem to be not as well-documented overall.
• 1633[10:50:51] <twb> hahaha
• 1634[10:51:02] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1635[10:51:16] <twb> why do you want an i386 kernel?
• 1636[10:51:28] <klys> meh, sometimes I boor i386 kernels
• 1637[10:51:34] <twb> but *why*
• 1638[10:51:55] <klys> historic reasons...
• 1639[10:51:57] <babilen> Maintaining bit bmi?
• 1640[10:52:20] <rant> klys: you on buster or something? I wonder how they're addressing that issue
• 1641[10:52:23] <babilen> klys: "historic reasons" as in "didn't find time to sort things out yet" ?
• 1642[10:52:25] * annadane wonders: if i use the freebsd kernel do i suddenly become hostile towards the GPL and systemd?
• 1643[10:52:54] *** Joins: msl09_ (~msl09@replaced-ip)
• 1644[10:52:55] <blackflow> annadane: yes. you also have trouble starting computers because of poor or nonexistent hardware support. :)
• 1645[10:53:48] <twb> annadane: yes also your palms get hairy and you start to tremble uncontrollably
• 1646[10:53:53] *** Quits: border-man (~stepan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1647[10:53:56] <rant> heh.. yeah I always commented on how lame that bsd kernel config is.. seemed like its sparse options were nonsensical.. keyboard: beige, white, black, gray .. etc
• 1648[10:54:11] *** Quits: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 1649[10:54:17] <rant> few settings it had were not really relevant to anyhing
• 1650[10:54:29] <twb> annadane: seriously, though, Debian GNU/kFreeBSD isn't compatible with systemd, but you can run GPL stuff
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• 1653[10:56:59] <Unit193> annadane: replaced-url
• 1654[10:57:21] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 1659[10:57:55] <twb> Unit193: aw
• 1660[10:58:09] <twb> Not that I actually got very far with GNU/kFBSD myself
• 1661[10:58:15] *** Quits: BigPine (~BigPine@replaced-ip) ()
• 1662[10:58:18] <annadane> it's just an interesting cultural thing. large numbers of people who use freebsd absolutely hate linux and if you didn't hear the other side you'd never think otherwise
• 1663[10:58:32] <Unit193> twb: Looks like just moving to ports, not fully going away. :)
• 1664[10:58:46] <twb> annadane: well, if you only listened to RMS you'd think GNU/Linux was pretty rabid, too
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• 1666[10:58:51] <twb> Unit193: ohhhh
• 1667[10:58:53] <annadane> also true
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• 1671[10:59:27] <twb> Most peopel I know like that, the actual reason is because their business model is ultimately selling licenses
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• 1675[10:59:50] <twb> it's easier for them to say "gpl is bad!" instead of "maybe my business model could change"
• 1676[10:59:55] *** Joins: MrGr33n (~None@replaced-ip)
• 1677[10:59:56] <blackflow> I was a FreeBSD contributor. All to happy to have escaped that echo chamber of linux, GPL and systemd hate.
• 1678[11:00:04] <blackflow> *too
• 1679[11:00:10] *** Joins: disposable2 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1680[11:00:10] <twb> FWIW I hate systemd
• 1681[11:00:34] <blackflow> Once I learned most of systmd trouble is with poor or misunderstood config or distro defautls, I started loving it.
• 1682[11:00:56] <annadane> as far as i understand a lot of hate came from when it was poorly documented upon first release
• 1683[11:01:02] <rant> I dont love it but I stopped hating it as I began to learn how it works and see some of its usefulness
• 1684[11:01:21] <twb> annadane: different reasons for different people
• 1685[11:01:50] <blackflow> I love the unit files an the power they have. All those kernel features, containerization and security features one can apply to individual service, through one single ini-style unit file.
• 1686[11:01:56] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip)
• 1687[11:02:10] <twb> blackflow: you can't write security features to be opt-out instead of opt-in
• 1688[11:02:20] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip)
• 1689[11:02:29] <twb> blackflow: for example, you can't say "User=nobody for all units unless they override it User=root"
• 1690[11:02:37] <twb> instead you have to add User=nobody to every single file
• 1691[11:03:00] <twb> I have a backburner task to automate that (and more useful things, like privatetmp)
• 1692[11:03:39] <blackflow> nevertheless... all those features are exposed through that one ini style file. I searched hard and long on how to apply the containerization and namespacing features throuhg openrc for example, or the seccomp filter.
• 1693[11:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1581
• 1694[11:04:02] <twb> blackflow: it's actually a "XDG desktop-style" file, which is defined as "ini-like" and ini is not standardized at all
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• 1697[11:04:12] <twb> There is no ABNF for systemd files
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• 1699[11:04:24] <twb> StartExec= is a list, but MountOptions= is a single string
• 1700[11:04:34] <twb> That lack of consistency and clarity is very confusing
• 1701[11:05:03] <blackflow> yah it's a bit all over the place. but it still allows all that through ONE SINGLE UNIT FILE per service ;)
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• 1704[11:05:26] <twb> blackflow: I definitely have about 2 to 5 times more files under systemd than I had under metainit
• 1705[11:05:53] <BCMM> twb: freedesktop desktop entries are fairly well-defined
• 1706[11:05:58] <blackflow> that's the whole point, that I can use on file to run nginx server, unprivileged with adequate CAPs, with readonly view of the filesystem, rw view of /var/log, and a specific named AppArmor or SELinux profile? Priceless.
• 1707[11:06:02] <BCMM> it's not just "like ini"
• 1708[11:06:04] <twb> BCMM: there is an ABNF?
• 1709[11:06:10] <blackflow> *one file
• 1710[11:06:40] <BCMM> twb: i have no idea. but it's not accurate that .desktop is as vague as .ini
• 1711[11:06:55] <twb> BCMM: for example, does any specification clearly state whether "MountOptions=x" and "MountOptions = x" mean thesame thing?
• 1712[11:07:00] <twb> Because in systemd, they do not mean the same thing
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• 1714[11:07:47] <twb> What about unicode normalization in keys? Does that happen, or not? Are keys just bytes, of arbitrary or mix of encodings?
• 1715[11:07:48] <BCMM> twb: "Space before and after the equals sign should be ignored; the = sign is the actual delimiter."
• 1716[11:07:53] <BCMM> replaced-url
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• 1718[11:08:04] <twb> BCMM: OK cool; systemd doesn't honor that
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• 1720[11:08:31] <twb> (At least, last time I looked, which was mostly as at v215)
• 1721[11:08:34] <BCMM> twb: not in the least surprised. systemd's entire approach to everything is that systemd itself is the standard
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• 1723[11:08:43] <blackflow> well, systemd is a poor implementation of a very good idea with NO existing alternative that does the same, with the same or similar scope.
• 1724[11:09:13] <BCMM> but .desktop entries are a genuinely interoperable format with multiple real-world implementations
• 1725[11:09:13] <twb> blackflow: which idea? Using displaying emoji QR codes on the terminal to verify signed logs? ;-P
• 1726[11:09:33] <blackflow> twb: the whole middleware thing, "base OS blocks" one can use to build up an OS with the kernel.
• 1727[11:09:55] <twb> blackflow: I don't know what that means
• 1728[11:10:04] <twb> blackflow: it sounds to me like you're describing the job that Debian does
• 1729[11:10:21] <blackflow> people lament that systemd The Project, has consumed all those additional services, and then they migrate over to BSDs which are..... the same thing, one big repository of code as a "base OS".
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• 1732[11:11:57] <blackflow> twb: I'm talking about there existing one project that in its scope, in its codebase, in its SVC repositories, contains the base building blocks that, along with a kernel, is the base of an OS. it may be good, it may be bad, depending on whom you're asking, but it's that. systemd is *NOT* an init, init is just one small part of it.
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• 1734[11:12:23] <twb> That's daft
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• 1736[11:12:38] <twb> systemd and a kernel aren't alone sufficient to do anything
• 1737[11:12:45] <blackflow> yet. :))
• 1738[11:13:02] <twb> I don't think systemd is going to replace libblkid or util-linux, for example
• 1739[11:13:09] <twb> or dracut
• 1740[11:13:17] <blackflow> it did replace dracut.
• 1741[11:13:22] <blackflow> systemd-boot?
• 1742[11:13:26] <twb> no that's gummiboot
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• 1744[11:13:33] <twb> dracut is the thing that makes the ramdisk
• 1745[11:13:36] <blackflow> or is that not.... no wait, that's just grub replacement. yeah.
• 1746[11:13:43] <twb> dracut can put systemd as the init *in* the ramdisk
• 1747[11:13:54] <blackflow> yeah yeah. I confuzzled the two.
• 1748[11:13:57] <klys> is gummiboot the package of the debian secure boot apparatus?
• 1749[11:13:57] <twb> and indeed, if you do not do this, systemd doesn't work properly in a number of ways
• 1750[11:14:11] <twb> klys: gummiboot is not necessary for secure boot on debian
• 1751[11:14:35] <klys> twb, I can't find the file BOOTX64.EFI on any other package, tho
• 1752[11:15:03] <twb> klys: mv vmlinuz BOOTX64.EFI
• 1753[11:15:05] <twb> klys: done
• 1754[11:15:29] <klys> so linux xounts as a 64-bit PE .exe file?
• 1755[11:15:40] <twb> More realistically, "BOOTX64.EFI" is just the thing EFI firmware will execute if it isn't told to do something else
• 1756[11:16:04] <twb> That can be linux in some cases, although not realistically stock Debian linux
• 1757[11:16:06] <blackflow> twb: here's the thing. system is poorly implemented. but it does things many people (me included) find very useful, and there are no alternatives. Now, I can keep on crying that it sucks, but at the end of the day I'm not gonna step up to write an alternative, so I might just as well stfu or keep on using it and hope it's gonna improve over time.
• 1758[11:16:23] <twb> blackflow: if you have a specific goal to solve we can talk about that
• 1759[11:16:37] <twb> blackflow: "it's all built from one git repository" isn't a solution to a problem
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• 1762[11:17:30] <blackflow> twb: yes I do. I want as simple as possible ability to run, say, nginx, unprivileged with appropriately defined caps for that (ports <1000 as non-root), with readonly view of the fs without having to spawn a chroot and manage it, with a blanked seccomp filter of stuffs it doesn't call, and a named apparmor policy that's maybe different from the default.
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• 1764[11:17:50] <blackflow> so far I have not been able to find a solution that integrates all that without writing my own shims for openrc for example.
• 1765[11:18:21] <twb> blackflow: OK yeah systemd is probably the simplest way to achieve that --- although AFAICT it has limited to no apparmor integration as at 6mo ago
• 1766[11:18:49] <twb> you could of course roll a smaller system yourself using something like procd or cinit
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• 1769[11:19:20] <twb> or just write your own init -- init itself is about 10 lines of lua/perl/python/ruby
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• 1772[11:20:02] <blackflow> twb: I could, but I do not care about rolling anything specific to me, that will have a bus factor of 1. I use linux for business purpupose, SaaS our company is providing, it's not "just a hobby".
• 1773[11:20:13] <twb> around 50% of a minimal debian install is the allmodconfig kernel, though, so by far the easiest way to fit onto a smaller disk would be to build a localyesconfig
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• 1775[11:21:06] <twb> blackflow: ah sorry, I read "simple as possible" as meaning "minimal" not "turnkey"
• 1776[11:21:10] <blackflow> and that standard support is the biggest thing in all of it. until someone in the community steps up with an alternative, and it gets adopted, supported and maintained, systemd it is.
• 1777[11:21:10] <klys> twb, you were right, efi shell knows the kernel. I am impressed.
• 1778[11:21:31] <twb> klys: it's more accurate to say that the linux kernel knows how to workaround EFI being horrid
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• 1784[11:24:20] <blackflow> twb: I wanna hear more about this poor AppArmor support. it's something I have _yet_ to get on with testing, and it's not for nginx as in the example above, I actually have a use case where I wanna spawn a multitude of uwsgi daemons, all from single binary, but with a different, named apparmor profile for it. Is not AppArmorProfile directive from systemd.exec(5) sufficient?
• 1785[11:24:30] <twb> blackflow: ah I don't remember the details, sorry
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• 1787[11:24:59] <twb> blackflow: it was in a chat with one of the other #systemd regulars
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• 1789[11:25:15] <blackflow> twb: maybe you confused it with poor SELinux support? and not for services, but for pid1 itself? that's at least what I heard of from gentoo folks, but I don't know details either.
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• 1791[11:25:32] <twb> selinux integration is/was strong because systemd was written for fedora and RH prefers selinux
• 1792[11:25:45] <blackflow> something something "don't use systemd on a strict SELinux system" (strict = no unconfined_t)
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• 1794[11:26:29] <twb> selinux tries to secure the whole system by default; apparmor tries only to lock down specific "problem children" like apache and firefox
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• 1796[11:26:48] <blackflow> twb: in a broad, rough sense, yeah. :)
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• 1799[11:26:58] <twb> So even without any special mojo, apparmor I think is pretty straightforward
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• 1801[11:27:22] <twb> Aha found my notes
• 1802[11:27:28] <BCMM> twb: by encoding of keys, do you mean the actual keys, or the values associated with them?
• 1803[11:27:36] <blackflow> well anyway, I have yet to get on with that part, so I'll know more when I test.
• 1804[11:28:02] <twb> replaced-url
• 1805[11:28:04] <blackflow> meanwhile..... I'm totally floored to see start-stop-daemon being used in default Debian nginx.service. WTF
• 1806[11:28:19] <twb> That was actually ##apparmor in Mar 2018
• 1807[11:29:17] <blackflow> yeah, not sure what they mean exactly. We'll see.
• 1808[11:29:45] <twb> basically AIUI what it means is that instead of pid1 just loading the apparmor policies, early
• 1809[11:30:12] <twb> you need to have a separate apparmor userland utility which systemd just treats as an "ordinary citizen" and it's very hard to make it run as early as possible, and force a reboot if it fails
• 1810[11:30:26] <twb> I *think* that's the point
• 1811[11:30:49] <twb> blackflow: in your case it probably also means that systemd-machined stack doesn't integrate it cleanly --- I personally don't care about that
• 1812[11:31:01] <blackflow> yeah me neither, I don't do nspawn and stuff like that.
• 1813[11:31:06] <twb> fair enough then
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• 1817[11:31:40] <blackflow> I hate containers. I prefer namespacing and using the main filesystem with different views (eg, readonly root + RW paths here or there, per service)
• 1818[11:32:01] <twb> +1
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• 1820[11:32:19] <blackflow> I spent too much time fighting with bad container and jail implementations (yes, jails on FreeBSD, they are good on paper, but very poor toolset/usability).
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• 1822[11:32:39] <twb> any experience with zones? ;-)
• 1823[11:32:51] <blackflow> no solaris experience at all :)
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• 1827[11:33:23] <blackflow> I hear its good. Illumos. Bestest ZFS implementation, they say. :)
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• 1835[11:38:01] <ychaouche> hello #debian
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• 1838[11:38:51] <ychaouche> what's the usual tool to change services at startup ? is rcconf the right tool or does dpkg-reconfigure handle this kind of task ?
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• 1842[11:39:52] <blackflow> ychaouche: "change services at startup"?
• 1843[11:40:06] <klys> ychaouche, systemd may need a file in /etc/systemd/system.
• 1844[11:40:45] <ychaouche> sorry, I meant decide what services start or don't start after system starts.
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• 1847[11:41:06] <ychaouche> the /etc/rc.d/ directory
• 1848[11:41:16] <ardualabs> systemctl list-unit-files --type=service
• 1849[11:41:31] <blackflow> ychaouche: with Debian Jessie onwards it's systemd's `systemctl` command that manages all that.
• 1850[11:41:49] <ychaouche> blackflow: thanks ! will check out the man page I guess
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• 1852[11:42:21] <ardualabs> ychaouche: that command should give you a list of services and what their status (enabled/disabled) is
• 1853[11:42:58] <ychaouche> ardualabs: what's the command for changing the *startupability* of a service ?
• 1854[11:43:09] <ardualabs> systemctl again.
• 1855[11:43:17] <blackflow> ychaouche: systemctl is the one ring to rule them all in service management on systemd distros.
• 1856[11:43:20] <ardualabs> As you said, the man page is a good place to start.
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• 1900[12:12:43] <KdeKris> Okay, I'm back
• 1901[12:13:55] <KdeKris> last thing I did was remove the config file that was telling my pc to use the amdgpu drivers, was going to reboot. There was something else that I was going to do as well. Don't remember though.
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• 1916[12:18:03] <zonesl> After make install Weechat, what is the reason for the directory /usr/local/lib/weechat/plugins/*.la or *.a?
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• 1924[12:23:34] <zonesl> Direct Source code compilation installation.
• 1925[12:23:35] <KdeKris> towo^work, deleting that one config file got me back in to gui. Thanks a ton man. Idk why I didn't remember it before.
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• 1928[12:25:01] <towo^work> KdeKris, and for your accelleration problem, you really should ask in #radeon, as i have said yesterday
• 1929[12:25:48] <KdeKris> I've joined #radeon. I'll ask over there now. Thanks a ton for all your help. I owe you.
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• 1933[12:30:06] <BCMM> KdeKris: by the way, #radeon is a relatively low-traffic channel, so be prepared to hang around for a bit after asking your question. it'll probably take a *lot* longer to get a response than on #debian
• 1934[12:30:41] <BCMM> they're really good at sorting out issues with AMD graphics, though
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• 1938[12:31:49] <KdeKris> Thanks for the tip BCMM, already got a response. Someone asked for pastebin of dmesg.
• 1939[12:32:17] <KdeKris> Obviously, just getting more info before deciding if they can even help, but still, it's a step in the right direction.
• 1940[12:32:21] <BCMM> ah, sorry for the needless warning then! it's just that sometimes people get discouraged and give up too soon on the small channels
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• 1948[12:35:07] <KdeKris> No, it's definitely appreciated. I've been on and off irc for a few years now, and I've seen slow channels before. It's always good to know ahead of time if it might be a slow channel you're getting into though.
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• 1952[12:40:09] <graff_> i can't handle slow channels
• 1953[12:40:30] <graff_> usually is you start spewing profanity, you quickly find out there are 100 devs reading it
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• 1955[12:41:02] <KdeKris> haha, slow sometimes means lazy, sometimes means busy.
• 1956[12:41:08] <KdeKris> Never know till you try.
• 1957[12:41:15] <babilen> → offtopic ?
• 1958[12:41:41] <graff_> i can't believe you are still here babilen
• 1959[12:41:48] <graff_> must have been more than 5 years now
• 1960[12:42:03] <graff_> heh
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• 1962[12:42:16] <babilen> *shrug*
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• 1964[12:42:58] <BCMM> his account is 6mo older than mine!
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• 1971[12:45:56] <zonesl> Missing *.so file
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• 1981[12:52:10] <hans_> any idea what causes console-kit-daemon to create a million threads? running debian 9, replaced-url
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• 1985[12:53:21] <hans_> and the weird thing is, the system isn't really doing *anything* at all, except running an openssh login server
• 1986[12:53:36] <rafalcpp> why "ag" is removed from debian buster??
• 1987[12:53:38] <rafalcpp> replaced-url
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• 1989[12:54:17] <hans_> what is ag?
• 1990[12:54:20] <rafalcpp> is in Stretch
• 1991[12:54:24] <rafalcpp> hans_: like grep but better
• 1992[12:54:48] <hans_> like perl then?
• 1993[12:54:50] <hans_> j/k
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• 1995[12:55:59] <hans_> rafalcpp, there's a package called `agrep`, may be that?
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• 1999[12:56:33] <hans_> rafalcpp, (but it's in the non-free repo)
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• 2005[12:58:45] <BCMM> replaced-url
• 2006[12:59:18] <BCMM> replaced-url
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• 2011[13:02:07] <BCMM> i've never been able to make head or tail of auto-removal messages in general...
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• 2019[13:08:01] <petn-randall> BCMM: "FTBFS" means "failed to build from source". So the package didn't build anymore, which is a RC bug.
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• 2021[13:08:39] <BCMM> petn-randall: right, but what's the relationship between cram and silversearcher-ag?
• 2022[13:08:53] <BCMM> it's cram that FTBFS according to that message, right?
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• 2049[13:20:04] <petn-randall> BCMM: replaced-url
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• 2051[13:20:28] <petn-randall> "Migration status: Blocked. Can't migrate due to a non-migratable dependency. Check status below:\nBlocked by: cram"
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• 2054[13:22:20] <BCMM> petn-randall: oh right! it's a build-time dependency, not a run-time one. sorry about that!
• 2055[13:22:32] <petn-randall> BCMM: Ah, I was wondering the same.
• 2056[13:22:45] <BCMM> rafalcpp_: ^
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• 2109[13:54:42] <rafalcpp_> petn-randall: ah
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• 2116[14:00:37] <alkisg> Hi, I'm updating a package to systemd. Am I supposed to manually delete the /etc/init.d/my-old-service on postinst? Because I see that they're not automatically removed...
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• 2134[14:10:17] <petn-randall> alkisg: Yes, they're considered conffiles, and are not touched.
• 2135[14:11:10] <alkisg> petn-randall: hmm, I think it would make sense for them to be automatically removed if they weren't modified. Thanks, I'll remove them on postinst.
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• 2144[14:15:36] <petn-randall> alkisg: Is "my-old-service" from an official Debian package, or something you wrote yourself?
• 2145[14:15:54] <alkisg> petn-randall: official debian package, epoptes and epoptes-client
• 2146[14:16:03] <alkisg> I'm preparing the new version that will arrive in buster
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• 2149[14:17:29] <petn-randall> alkisg: Are you preparing, or preparing for the package?
• 2150[14:17:40] <alkisg> I'm the package developer/maintainer
• 2151[14:17:46] <petn-randall> I see
• 2152[14:17:50] <alkisg> So the question is, for users having epoptes installed and upgrading from stretch to buster, should I remove the obsolete sysvinit conffiles or just leave them there?
• 2153[14:18:17] <petn-randall> I'm sure there are already tools to add in debian/rules that will check if the init script was modified, and if not just removes it during postinst.
• 2154[14:18:18] <abrotman> they're obsolete ?
• 2155[14:18:50] <alkisg> abrotman: well I stop relying on sysvinit, stop depending on lsb_base for the functions etc, so ...yes?
• 2156[14:19:00] <hans_> update-grub doesn't see/add the /boot/ipxe.lkrn kernel to the boot options, here's the output replaced-url
• 2157[14:19:03] <petn-randall> You might want to ask about it in #debian-mentors how to accomplish this.
• 2158[14:19:17] <alkisg> petn-randall: thanks, here in freenode?
• 2159[14:19:26] <alkisg> (nope, going...)
• 2160[14:19:34] <petn-randall> alkisg: all on OFTC. There's also #debian-devel there.
• 2161[14:19:41] <alkisg> Ty, going there
• 2162[14:20:15] <hans_> how can i get /boot/ipxe.lkrn added to the grub boot menu?
• 2163[14:20:57] <petn-randall> hans_: Where does the file /boot/ipxe.lkrn come from, and what is it?
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• 2165[14:22:45] <hans_> petn-randall, it comes from running git clone --depth 1 git://git.ipxe.org/ipxe.git ; cd ipxe/src; make clean; wget replaced-url
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• 2167[14:23:07] <hans_> petn-randall, it's a weird little network bootloader thing, allowing you to boot linux kernels over http
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• 2169[14:23:49] <petn-randall> hans_: Have you already had a look at the "ipxe" package? Seems like it already does this without having to brew your own.
• 2170[14:23:51] <alkisg> hans_: replaced-url
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• 2172[14:24:13] <alkisg> Yup. And if you want, you can dpkg-divert/override it, while keeping the grub.d snippet
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• 2178[14:24:32] <hans_> petn-randall, but ipxe package does not include my boot script, replaced-url
• 2179[14:24:32] <alkisg> Or you could just get /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe from that package
• 2180[14:24:51] <alkisg> hans_: you can provide a script in grub
• 2181[14:24:56] <alkisg> You don't have to embed it to ipxe
• 2182[14:25:09] <alkisg> It can read it as an initrd image, defined in grub
• 2183[14:25:12] <annadane> installed a bunch of mesa packages from backports and now trying to install them back to stretch, and it's saying "already the latest version", what am i doing wrong
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• 2185[14:25:22] <petn-randall> hans_: You're trying to boot Ubuntu?
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• 2187[14:25:34] <petn-randall> hans_: You might then want to ask in #ubuntu.
• 2188[14:26:04] <hans_> alkisg, in theory, yeah, but there was some reasons i had to embed them... i think it was keyboard layout incompatibilities with the html5 console emulator thing i have to use to control grub and ://
• 2189[14:26:31] <alkisg> hans_: ok, install the ipxe package and override ipxe.lkrn with your own
• 2190[14:27:00] <hans_> alkisg, already tried that, but it still wasn't added to the grub bootloader
• 2191[14:27:16] <hans_> normally when one runs `apt install ipxe` , it is added, but it wasn't on this system
• 2192[14:27:17] <petn-randall> It might not work in Ubuntu, who knows.
• 2193[14:27:27] * alkisg thinks setting up netbooting concerns the host os, while problems with the netbooted os, the target os
• 2194[14:27:50] <hans_> petn-randall, it never boots into ipxe, grub does not consider the possibility of booting into ipxe,
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• 2196[14:28:06] <alkisg> hans_: if your host os is ubuntu and not debian, then yes, ask in #ubuntu, as they have a different package for grub-ipxe
• 2197[14:28:13] <hans_> my host system is debian 9.
• 2198[14:28:15] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2199[14:28:21] <alkisg> OK, then here is the correct place to ask
• 2200[14:28:28] <alkisg> apt install ipxe should put it in grub
• 2201[14:28:35] <hans_> yeah i know, but it didn't :/
• 2202[14:28:40] <hans_> i can try to uninstall and reinstall ipxe tho
• 2203[14:28:49] <alkisg> What's the output of dpkg -L ipxe?
• 2204[14:29:03] <petn-randall> hans_: Do you get a /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe? And what alkisg said.
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• 2209[14:30:32] <hans_> dpkg -L ipxe: replaced-url
• 2210[14:30:32] <dpkg> ii ipxe: replaced-url
• 2211[14:30:38] <hans_> petn-randall, /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe does not exist
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• 2213[14:31:11] <alkisg> hans_: well see your paste; did you manually delete it?
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• 2215[14:31:40] <hans_> oh
• 2216[14:31:46] <hans_> damn, sorry, no, /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe does exist
• 2217[14:31:47] <alkisg> hans_: try to purge (not remove) and then reinstall that package
• 2218[14:31:49] <alkisg> OK
• 2219[14:32:04] <alkisg> Run update-grub, and see if it gets in grub.cfg
• 2220[14:32:11] <alkisg> Are you using BIOS or UEFI?
• 2221[14:32:38] <hans_> i don't know, honestly, it's an Xen VPS i'm renting
• 2222[14:32:46] <alkisg> ls /sys/firmware/efi
• 2223[14:32:50] <alkisg> If it's there, you're using uefi
• 2224[14:33:06] <hans_> ls: cannot access '/sys/firmware/efi': No such file or directory
• 2225[14:33:23] <alkisg> OK, you're using bios, so ipxe.lkrn should be in your /boot/grub/grub.cfg. Is it?
• 2226[14:33:42] <alkisg> Maybe it is, and your problem is that your VPS isn't actually using your grub? :)
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• 2230[14:34:27] <hans_> /boot/grub/grub.cfg does not exist (erm, double checked)
• 2231[14:34:28] <petn-randall> !confmiss
• 2232[14:34:28] <dpkg> You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
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• 2234[14:34:38] <hans_> the folder has default device.map menu.lst menu.lst~ menu.lst.save
• 2235[14:34:49] <petn-randall> alkisg: Deleted files won't come back that way. ^^^
• 2236[14:35:16] <jelly> grub.cfg is not a conffile is it
• 2237[14:35:19] <alkisg> petn-randall: apt purge + apt install does reinstall config files
• 2238[14:35:30] <jelly> so confmiss is not relevant
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• 2242[14:36:04] <alkisg> hans_: that's grub 0.97 or something, the ipxe package only supports the newer grub2
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• 2244[14:36:10] <jelly> that factoid should probably be more specific as "config files" and "conffiles" are not really the same thing
• 2245[14:36:11] <alkisg> You'd need to manually edit the menu.lst file there
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• 2247[14:36:19] <hans_> notably /boot/grub/menu.lst has all my kernels except ipxe
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• 2249[14:36:27] <hans_> oh, crud
• 2250[14:36:30] <alkisg> hans_: what's the output of `dpkg -l '*grub*' | grep ^ii` ?
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• 2253[14:37:06] <hans_> alkisg, 2 lines, 1: ii grub-common 2.02~beta3-5 amd64 GRand Unified Bootloader (common files) 2: ii grub-legacy 0.97-72 amd64 GRand Unified Bootloader (Legacy version)
• 2254[14:37:33] <alkisg> hans_: yup, for some reason you're still using grub-legacy
• 2255[14:37:51] <alkisg> You need to manually edit menu.lst, autogeneration wasn't supported back then
• 2256[14:38:01] <hans_> ok, i will try that, thanks
• 2257[14:38:03] <alkisg> np
• 2258[14:38:40] <hans_> any idea if ipxe requires any special boot parameters, or just `kernel /boot/ipxe.lkrn` ?
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• 2264[14:42:06] <shdeuce> Jello, guys! What's the recommended IRC-client for Debian?
• 2265[14:42:18] <hans_> `recommended`
• 2266[14:42:23] <shdeuce> i know
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• 2268[14:42:38] <blackflow> irssi. well, you asked.
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• 2270[14:42:56] <hans_> i like hexchat, but that's just me
• 2271[14:43:23] <shdeuce> Oh, yes, I forgot weechat exists.
• 2272[14:43:35] <shdeuce> Thank you both.
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• 2274[14:45:17] <hans_> does ipxe.lkrn need a initrd ?
• 2275[14:45:26] <hans_> hmm, i wonder if there's an ipxe channel
• 2276[14:45:37] <hans_> actually, there is!
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• 2280[14:49:53] <alkisg> hans_: it doesn't need an initrd. It *can* use one, and then it should be an ipxe script with commands
• 2281[14:50:08] *** Quits: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2282[14:50:09] <alkisg> And yeah, #ipxe is more suited for this :)
• 2283[14:50:10] <hans_> neat, thanks
• 2284[14:50:43] <hans_> i thought i had to embed the ipxe script at compile time
• 2285[14:51:58] <alkisg> (03:24:51 μμ) alkisg: hans_: you can provide a script in grub (03:24:56 μμ) alkisg: You don't have to embed it to ipxe (03:25:09 μμ) alkisg: It can read it as an initrd image, defined in grub
• 2286[14:52:10] <alkisg> You lost half an hour by not reading that :D
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• 2300[15:02:45] <hans_> i think i figured out why it's still using grub 1.x
• 2301[15:03:02] <hans_> it was probably a debian 7 upgraded to debian 8 upgraded to debian 9
• 2302[15:03:17] <hans_> does debian 7.x use grub 1.x by default?
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• 2309[15:08:51] <petn-randall> hans_: Not wanting to confuse you, but there was never a 1.x series of grub. Only 0.x and 2.x. :)
• 2310[15:08:54] <jelly> hans_, I think grub-legacy was maybe default in debian 5 or 6 if that's what you're asking. There never was a legacy 1.x version, only 0.x
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• 2312[15:09:28] <jelly> there were 1.98 and 1.99 versions, but those where grub-pc ("grub2")
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• 2317[15:10:18] <jelly> so if you're seeing something like 1.98 in wheezy, that's the newer code base
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• 2319[15:10:29] <jelly> ,v grub-pc
• 2320[15:10:30] <judd> Package: grub-pc on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.99-27+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 1.99-27+deb7u3; jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-4; sid: 2.02+dfsg1-4
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• 2330[15:15:13] <roylaprattep> What is the utility of jessie-backports-sloppy?
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• 2335[15:16:09] <roylaprattep> Or the difference between jessie-backports and jessie-backports-sloppy
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• 2338[15:17:06] <blackflow> roylaprattep: replaced-url
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• 2340[15:17:40] <roylaprattep> I read that, but I don't understand, that's why I am here.
• 2341[15:18:06] <roylaprattep> If I understand, I should to the upgrade from sloppy before dist-upgrade?
• 2342[15:18:16] <roylaprattep> e/to/do
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• 2344[15:19:05] <petn-randall> roylaprattep: You may use "*-backports-sloppy" if you never intend to upgrade the machine and you just need to have it running for a few more months before replacing it.
• 2345[15:19:20] <roylaprattep> Ok.
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• 2353[15:20:25] <roylaprattep> Thank you petn-randall
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• 2382[15:35:28] <moldy> hi
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• 2384[15:35:43] <moldy> i am trying to remove a package (webmin)
• 2385[15:36:09] <moldy> replaced-url
• 2386[15:36:21] <moldy> the problem is: the package hangs forever on installation / dpkg
• 2387[15:36:26] <moldy> so i cannot reinstall it
• 2388[15:36:34] <moldy> is there a way to just get rid of the thing?
• 2389[15:37:01] <towo^work> since webmin is not in debian, ask the vendor of that package
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• 2391[15:37:20] <moldy> hmmm
• 2392[15:37:33] <jelly> moldy, what does "dpkg -l webmin | tail -n1" say right now?
• 2393[15:37:36] <moldy> i think that's not practical in this case. there is no way to just force-uninstall the thing?
• 2394[15:37:54] <moldy> jelly: iHR webmin 1.860 all web-based administration interface for Unix systems
• 2395[15:38:11] <jelly> half-installed, reinst-required
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• 2397[15:38:57] <moldy> jelly: replaced-url
• 2398[15:39:02] <moldy> it stays at 16% forever
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• 2401[15:41:30] <jelly> how long did you wait, 5-10 minutes or more?
• 2402[15:41:42] <apollo13> moldy: isn't the more important question why you are using webmin in the first place? *scnr*
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• 2405[15:41:57] <moldy> apollo13: i am not
• 2406[15:42:07] <moldy> apollo13: hi, btw :)
• 2407[15:42:25] <apollo13> 👋
• 2408[15:42:30] <moldy> apollo13: i am trying to turn a box that we're not using for anything important anymore into a host for gitlab CI runners
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• 2410[15:42:48] <moldy> but i am running into docker tire fires :p
• 2411[15:42:52] <apollo13> "we're not using for anything important anymore" -- reinstall a minimal install?
• 2412[15:43:22] <roylaprattep> apollo13: So bright answer.
• 2413[15:43:24] <jelly> moldy, is there a /var/lib/dpkg/info/webmin.preinst file present?
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• 2415[15:43:44] <moldy> apollo13: yeah, i requested permission to nuke and reinstall the thing, but i did not get a reply yet and in the meantime devs are blocked by lack of CI runners ;)
• 2416[15:43:49] <apollo13> haha
• 2417[15:43:49] <jelly> it's unusual a package would hang before the Configuring... step
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• 2419[15:44:05] <jelly> a package installation*
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• 2421[15:44:07] <moldy> rumors have it that there is some kind of important data on the machine ;p
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• 2423[15:44:22] <roylaprattep> Backup then reinstall.
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• 2427[15:44:45] <moldy> yeah, i will eventually
• 2428[15:44:56] <petn-randall> moldy: In that case you already have backups, right? RIGHT?
• 2429[15:45:05] <apollo13> petn-randall: haha
• 2430[15:45:16] <moldy> petn-randall: i have no idea. this is stuff from before i joined here :)
• 2431[15:45:19] <apollo13> always those rhetorical questions
• 2432[15:45:41] <apollo13> moldy: no idea about your webmin issue, but what are your docker problems?
• 2433[15:45:50] <moldy> currently i have root on the box but no credentials for the hetzner account, i'm waiting for a reply from the responsible person ;)
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• 2436[15:45:54] <apollo13> aside from docker beeing generally annoying
• 2437[15:46:08] <apollo13> please tell me you got root via an 0day :D
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• 2442[15:47:03] <moldy> via social engineering ;)
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• 2446[15:47:42] <blackflow> moldy: what!
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• 2448[15:49:05] <moldy> apollo13: trying to dig it up. i'm fighting git on windows in parallel. bad day ;)
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• 2450[15:49:34] <moldy> `level=warning msg="OOM monitoring failed" error="cgroups: memory cgroup not supported on this system"`
• 2451[15:49:45] <moldy> so i suspect it wants a newer kernel
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• 2454[15:50:20] <moldy> oh funny, the webmin reinstallation has finished! after 15 minutes or such.
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• 2477[16:10:04] <sakal> Hi, I have debian testing (buster), how can I mount iso with udf filesystem? how can I install udf fs? may be exists some arch tool with udf support?
• 2478[16:10:59] <petn-randall> !debian-next
• 2479[16:10:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 2480[16:11:03] <petn-randall> sakal: ^^^
• 2481[16:11:19] <greycat> if "iso with udf" means "a file with the extension .iso that allegedly has a UDF file system in it", then it's just a loopback mount. mount -o loop file directory
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• 2483[16:12:02] <greycat> and the extension would be a blatany falsehood in this case, since .iso is supposed to mean an ISO9660 file system
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• 2487[16:14:12] <sakal> petn-randall, thank. I think it's common issue. But, I will go to oftc after reply here to greycat
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• 2489[16:15:01] <sakal> greycat, yeap, I just mount it as loop device, and got readme.txt with message: 'This disc contains a "UDF" file system and requires an operating system that supports the ISO-13346 "UDF" file system specification.'
• 2490[16:15:15] *** Quits: vvor (~vvor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2491[16:15:22] <greycat> If you can read it, then you have UDF support.
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• 2493[16:16:08] <sakal> but when I try to mount it as `mount -t udf ...` I got message, that udf is unknown fs
• 2494[16:16:38] <sakal> anyway, thank for helping
• 2495[16:16:39] <greycat> Then stop doing that?
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• 2497[16:17:15] <sakal> yeap, it stop with error message
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• 2499[16:17:39] <BCMM> sadly it's pretty much de-facto standard to use .iso for udf filesystems :(
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• 2501[16:18:04] <sakal> I will be more googling for support ISO-13346 in debian
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• 2503[16:18:19] <BCMM> probably because CD burning software always accepts .iso files
• 2504[16:19:13] <sakal> JFI, it's windows 7 installation iso image. I just want to look a few moments, but stopped on simple mount operation, stranger...
• 2505[16:19:58] <sakal> thank you all.
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• 2516[16:25:00] <dooteo> Hi all,
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• 2520[16:26:19] <dooteo> I'd installed Pure-Ftpd server, and configured to use "UPLOADSCRIPT" to set a kind of flag once a file is uploaded to Ftp server.
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• 2524[16:28:03] <dooteo> I think all conf files are properly configured, but '/usr/sbin/pure-uploadscript' does not run script
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• 2528[16:28:38] <dooteo> which creates a 'uploaded_filename.complete' file.
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• 2530[16:29:08] <dooteo> Any suggest to solve this?
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• 2552[16:41:12] <c-c> dooteo: look for Pftpd log files
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• 2556[16:42:50] <RoyK> dooteo: if you can, use sftp instead of ftp - ftp is outdated
• 2557[16:42:56] <dooteo> c-c: at /var/log/pure-ftpd/transfer.log, only PUT messages appears. Nothing about 'upload'
• 2558[16:42:57] *** Quits: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2559[16:43:11] <RoyK> dooteo: PUT is upload
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• 2563[16:44:30] <dooteo> RoyK: does not matter if Ftp/Sftp, the issue is I have something wrong to get uploadscript works!
• 2564[16:45:07] <dooteo> at /var/log/messages there are some INFO messages, like:
• 2565[16:45:19] <dooteo> Can't change directory to /home/user/resources
• 2566[16:45:23] <RoyK> dooteo: just saying FTP is outdated - sftp runs on top of ssh and is quite secure - FTP isn't
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• 2568[16:45:46] <petn-randall> !ftp must die
• 2569[16:45:46] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
• 2570[16:46:07] <dooteo> Right now, Ftp user home is localted at /home/user/resources/ftp, and is chrooted
• 2571[16:46:25] <BCMM> dooteo: what's actually in the upload script currently? something useful or just a helloworld?
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• 2573[16:46:57] <BCMM> if it's complex, i'd wonder if maybe the script itself is broken, maybe bashisms with an sh shebang
• 2574[16:47:01] <RoyK> dooteo: does it work if you ftp in manually? also - agin - why not sftp?
• 2575[16:47:02] <dooteo> touch /home/user/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
• 2576[16:47:14] <dooteo> yep, script run well manually
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• 2578[16:48:01] <BCMM> dooteo: does it have a #! or just that single line?
• 2579[16:48:34] <BCMM> dooteo: oh, and does the ftp server's user have access to that location?
• 2580[16:48:42] <dooteo> Sorry, whole script is:\n#!/bin/sh\n touch /home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
• 2581[16:48:47] <dooteo> I mean
• 2582[16:48:52] <dooteo> #!/bin/sh
• 2583[16:48:57] <dooteo> touch /home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
• 2584[16:49:20] <dooteo> ftp and tmp_completed dirs exists
• 2585[16:49:34] <BCMM> dooteo: but the ftp server is chrooted in a different directory? am i reading that right?
• 2586[16:49:43] <dooteo> ans $1 should be uploaded file's name
• 2587[16:50:05] <dooteo> is chrooted at /home/user/resources/ftp
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• 2590[16:50:34] <greycat> I wonder where tht stderr from this script is going, so you can look there for errors.
• 2591[16:51:01] <dooteo> that's why script is located at /home/user/resources/ftp/bin
• 2592[16:51:05] <BCMM> dooteo: and that script is execed by the ftp server after an upload completes?
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• 2594[16:51:15] <greycat> e.g. if $1 happens to have slashes in it, you could be trying to touch /home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/./upload/foo.complete or something
• 2595[16:51:59] <BCMM> dooteo: are "ikusi" and "user" actually the same directory?
• 2596[16:52:01] <greycat> The first question is whether the script is being executed *at all*, and the second question is what arguments it's being given, and you are not logging either of these things.
• 2597[16:52:01] <dooteo> at /etc/default/pure-ftpd-common file: UPLOADSCRIPT=/home/user/bin/pure_ftp_upload_completed.sh
• 2598[16:52:10] <dooteo> BCMM, yes
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• 2600[16:52:29] <BCMM> dooteo: and what are the permissions on tmp_completed?
• 2601[16:52:55] <dooteo> drwxr-xr-x 2 ftpusr ftpgrp 4096 Jul 18 10:11 tmp_completed
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• 2603[16:53:26] <dooteo> I can try to open it for write to everyone,... just for test
• 2604[16:53:31] <greycat> And the third question is what UID/GID the script is being executed with, and again, that's not logged.
• 2605[16:53:40] <dooteo> but the same if I want to write at /tmp
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• 2608[16:54:43] <dooteo> greycat: I tried with UPLOADUID= and UPLOADGID=, as well as with 1001 (user and group, which belongs to ftpusr and ftpgrp)
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• 2610[16:55:27] <greycat> dooteo: Try adding some *actual logging* to the script. Find a place you are absolutely 100% certainly positive that it can write to, like /tmp (except that may not even exist because you mentioned chroot at some point) and actually write basic information there when the script is executed.
• 2611[16:55:47] <master_yoda> how would one go about attaching a shock collar to a cat's vagina?
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• 2618[16:56:50] <dooteo> Let me try....
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• 2627[17:03:15] <dooteo> Mmm... nothing... Do you know where does pure-uploadscript write logs? /var/logs/messages has nothing about it...
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• 2630[17:03:35] <greycat> dooteo: I'm telling you to do your OWN logging instead of counting on something else to have done it for you.
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• 2635[17:05:26] <no_gravity> Hmm.. just wanted to try logresolve for the first time and it gives me 'segmentation fault'.
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• 2675[17:23:53] <dooteo> greycat: if no chroot and no UPLOADUID/UPLOADGID, and script is copied in /usr/local/bin, it's able to rite in /tmp dir.
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• 2679[17:24:54] <dooteo> I'm going to dive into chroot way...
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• 2681[17:25:39] <greycat> I have absolutely no idea whether your "file was uploaded script" runs inside of a chroot or not. It's just something you need to keep in mind during your development and deployment.
• 2682[17:26:12] <greycat> If it does, then the path that you're trying to touch may not be available.
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• 2685[17:26:54] <greycat> If you have the script log to "/tmp/myscript.log" and a file shows up in /your/chroot/tmp/ then you know it's running inside the chroot.
• 2686[17:26:54] <dooteo> greycat: I think so
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• 2695[17:33:32] <josj> hi, pan(1) newsreader seems to fail with (g)vim(1) external editor, file is already removed (similar issue with thunderbird IIRC).
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• 2698[17:37:22] <dooteo> greycat: done!! When Ftp user is chrooted, you need to set VIRTUALCHROOT=true at /etc/default/pure-ftpd-common
• 2699[17:37:49] <dooteo> and put your upload_script in a /usr/local/bin like directory.
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• 2702[17:38:41] <dooteo> As far as I got, that VIRTUALCHROOT means even ftp user is chrooted, it has access to PATH to run some script
• 2703[17:38:48] <dooteo> Lot of thanks!
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• 2725[17:54:33] <dooteo> Bye!
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• 2732[17:59:31] <[sr]> guys
• 2733[17:59:39] <[sr]> in the latest updates for php 7.1+7.2
• 2734[17:59:47] <[sr]> the magicquotes disapeared from php5
• 2735[17:59:49] <greycat> ,v php
• 2736[17:59:50] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+61; sid: 1:7.2+61
• 2737[18:00:02] <greycat> if you're in 7.2 then you're past stretch
• 2738[18:00:05] <[sr]> i'm running websites with phpfm, but the debian package just removed it
• 2739[18:00:06] <[sr]> :s
• 2740[18:00:08] <[sr]> is this true
• 2741[18:00:09] <[sr]> ?
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• 2743[18:00:21] <[sr]> php5 websites with fpm
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• 2751[18:09:12] <jelly> [sr], php5 has been removed around 2016-ish, before Debian 9 release, only php 7 is in Debian 9 and there is a php-fpm for that.
• 2752[18:09:17] <Matt|home> hi.. im trying to install firefox via command-line but im getting the 'refered to by another package/no isntallation candidate' messages. there are workarounds that i've read on posts that involve changing the apt system, but if possible i'd like to avoid that.. and for the time being im doing some debug testing so i -have- to install it via the command line
• 2753[18:09:30] <Matt|home> has anyone been able to do this before?
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• 2755[18:10:19] <jelly> [sr], if you have packages for php 7.1 or 7.2 in stretch, you got those from some place other than Debian. Possibly deb.sury.org ?
• 2756[18:10:28] <[sr]> jelly: im dead!! :P i'm still having php5 but in the last update just stoped serving magic quotes
• 2757[18:10:41] <[sr]> jelly: never only debian
• 2758[18:10:42] <SirLagz> Matt|home: the latest firefox or firefox-esr ?
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• 2760[18:10:47] <jelly> [sr], which debian release?
• 2761[18:10:50] <[sr]> sid
• 2762[18:11:01] <Matt|home> SirLagz , i've been doing apt install firefox. should i do firefox-esr ?
• 2763[18:11:06] <SirLagz> Matt|home: yes
• 2764[18:11:08] <jelly> [sr], there hasn't been a php5 in sid in a LONG time
• 2765[18:11:11] <Matt|home> let's give that a whirl
• 2766[18:11:47] <Matt|home> ah awesome. it seems to be working. thanks SirLagz . just out of curiosity is there a way to get it to suggest the correct package names?
• 2767[18:12:24] <SirLagz> Matt|home: do you mean for it to recommend firefox-esr when you try and install firefox?
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• 2769[18:13:00] <netw1z> imagemagick does work for me under debian stretch : it says its missing libIlmImf.so.6 which i cant find in any respository
• 2770[18:13:11] <Matt|home> yeah. im coming off of ubuntu and normally when that happens it shows me a list with like 'different versions available please specify version number'
• 2771[18:13:23] <jelly> netw1z, which command exactly are you calling?
• 2772[18:13:36] <netw1z> @jelly convert --version gives this error
• 2773[18:14:11] <netw1z> convert: error while loading shared libraries: libIlmImf.so.6:
• 2774[18:14:25] <SirLagz> Matt|home: yeah not sure, sorry
• 2775[18:14:32] <Matt|home> s'fine, thank you for your help /o
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• 2777[18:14:38] <jelly> etw1z, alright, what does this command say: dpkg -l $(dpkg -S $(readlink -f $(which convert))|awk -F: '{print $1}) | tail -n1
• 2778[18:14:50] <SirLagz> Matt|home: no probs
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• 2780[18:15:06] <jelly> netw1z, make that
• 2781[18:15:10] <jelly> netw1z, dpkg -l $(dpkg -S $(readlink -f $(which convert))|awk -F: '{print $1}') | tail -n1
• 2782[18:16:03] <netw1z> checking
• 2783[18:16:24] <netw1z> ii zlib1g-dev:amd64 1:1.2.8.dfsg-5 amd64 compression library - development
• 2784[18:16:39] <netw1z> oh and: dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /usr/local/bin/convert
• 2785[18:16:50] <jelly> netw1z, your convert is not from a debian package
• 2786[18:17:07] <jelly> netw1z, what does just this say: readlink -f $(which convert)
• 2787[18:17:14] <jelly> right
• 2788[18:17:36] <netw1z> :: /usr/local/bin/convert
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• 2790[18:18:03] <jelly> get rid of that custom build, and see if /usr/bin/convert works (after installing imagemagick package if it's not already there)
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• 2793[18:19:30] <netw1z> ahh! /usr/bin/convert --version
• 2794[18:19:32] <netw1z> does work
• 2795[18:19:47] <netw1z> latest version.. so something is linked wrong?
• 2796[18:20:11] <jelly> you have a different one in /usr/local/bin that does not work
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• 2799[18:20:37] <jelly> move it away or delete it
• 2800[18:20:40] <netw1z> I will rm it and reinstall imagemagick
• 2801[18:20:46] <jelly> no need to reinstall
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• 2803[18:21:10] <netw1z> -bash: /usr/local/bin/convert: No such file or directory
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• 2805[18:21:33] <jelly> no debian package will ever put anything in /usr/local/bin
• 2806[18:21:50] <netw1z> yes i must have built a custom one a while ago
• 2807[18:22:10] <netw1z> but is something off with my path?
• 2808[18:22:19] <jelly> nope
• 2809[18:22:23] <netw1z> its not finding /usr/bin/convert yet
• 2810[18:22:36] <jelly> run "hash -r" in your bash shell
• 2811[18:22:46] <jelly> or "rehash" in zsh
• 2812[18:22:55] <netw1z> nice!
• 2813[18:23:03] <netw1z> working! thank you! im back in the game!
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• 2815[18:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1603
• 2816[18:24:10] <jelly> "help hash" has a short explanation of what that built-in bash command does
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• 2819[18:25:14] <jelly> (makes the shell reread contents of PATH; a VERY long time ago, this was an expensive operation so interactive shells keep their own cache of those contents)
• 2820[18:25:48] <jelly> (instead of, say, looking into each directory every time an external command is called)
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• 2836[18:29:58] <netw1z> that was super helpful thank you @jelly - you helped me level up
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• 2891[19:00:00] <BCMM> jelly: that would still be moderately expensive!
• 2892[19:00:06] <BCMM> jelly: checking every time a command is called, that is
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• 2895[19:00:33] <BCMM> make that "very expensive" when running scripts that make repeated calls
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• 2938[19:26:28] <xsisec> hi guys I think I am hacked maybe ? --> replaced-url
• 2939[19:26:36] <xsisec> what need I to do?
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• 2941[19:29:43] <peterandre> why do you think so ?
• 2942[19:29:51] <xsisec> look at the log?
• 2943[19:30:11] <xsisec> suddendly I also only got read access to my drives also
• 2944[19:30:31] <peterandre> hmm
• 2945[19:30:45] <peterandre> i would backup things and do a clean install
• 2946[19:31:06] <peterandre> read access usually activats itself when a harddisk is dying or indeed forced by something
• 2947[19:31:16] <xsisec> hmm
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• 2963[19:41:53] <rarity_> So I noticed debian also had the hurd and freebsd kernel, is it possible to add them along with your linux kernel so at boot you can choose it?
• 2964[19:42:23] <rarity_> Or you have to install the whole distro?
• 2965[19:43:11] <RoyK> rarity_: about Hurd… replaced-url
• 2966[19:44:38] <rarity_> lol I know. Just wanted to test it on real hardware. without having to do a whole install again.
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• 2980[19:51:03] <ardualabs> lol @ hurd
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• 2982[19:52:16] <rarity_> I guess I'll just go get the install cd and try it on my laptop I never use
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• 2991[19:54:13] <ardualabs> (lol at the comic, rather - not to trash on your project, rarity_)
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• 3016[20:09:04] <zerocool> hey guys, really quick how can i find packages installed from say... stretch-backports?
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• 3025[20:12:09] <greycat> shutupbot dpkg -l | grep bpo
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• 3044[20:22:31] <mnuhmnuh> zerocool: that's atricky q. greycat's soln. includes libpolkit, libpoppler, libopt, and libpostproc. "aptitude search '~dbackport ~i'" (or bpo) finds python stuff.
• 3045[20:23:03] <annadane> soln?
• 3046[20:23:12] *** Joins: hlam (~hlam@replaced-ip)
• 3047[20:23:12] <annadane> oh solution
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• 3051[20:25:04] <zerocool> mnuhmnuh, its more trouble than it's worth yeah... oh well :)
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• 3054[20:26:10] <mnuhmnuh> zerocool: use greycat's and tag on "| grep -v lib"
• 3055[20:27:39] <twobitsprite> zerocool: pretty sure aptitude's ~O search should work, I just don't know the origin name for the backports repos... probably just "backports" or "bpo" so something like "aptitude search '~i ~Obackports'" or the same with ~Obpo or ~Obackport
• 3056[20:27:55] <mnuhmnuh> and what happens then when it finds bpo libs? oops.
• 3057[20:28:06] <greycat> what's wrong with libs?
• 3058[20:28:24] *** Quits: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3059[20:28:29] <mnuhmnuh> grep -v
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• 3062[20:28:43] <mnuhmnuh> throws all matching away
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• 3067[20:29:58] <zerocool> guys its okay
• 3068[20:30:05] <zerocool> i appreciate your help though
• 3069[20:30:11] <KdeKris> anyone know anything about what appears to be a shell script?
• 3070[20:30:26] <KdeKris> replaced-url
• 3071[20:30:37] <mnuhmnuh> file script
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• 3074[20:30:59] <KdeKris> looks like this is looking for OpenGL v2 then preventing hardware acceleration if it finds anything other than v2.
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• 3076[20:31:08] <KdeKris> Ah, file script. Okay, thanks.
• 3077[20:31:15] <KdeKris> Not the same thing I'm guessing.
• 3078[20:31:19] <zerocool> lol
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• 3085[20:32:06] <zerocool> honestly im not sure by looking at it, if it's shell or bash
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• 3087[20:32:31] <mnuhmnuh> "... user does not has at least OpenGL 2 support."
• 3088[20:32:34] <zerocool> it looks like bash though
• 3089[20:32:37] *** Quits: wall4ss (~smuxi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3090[20:33:25] <cloudive> what do you think causes some open source projects to become popular, besides licensing? there must be some good ones everyone is missing
• 3091[20:33:35] <blackflow> zerocool: if you're up for some scripting, you can cross-reference package listed by dpkg, for ii(nstaled), with those appearing in the approrpiate /var/lib/apt/lists/...Packages file
• 3092[20:34:10] <zerocool> blackflow: i just remembered what i installed, removed and autoremoved, good enough for me
• 3093[20:34:16] <annadane> KdeKris, out of curiosity did you actually get your problems fixed?
• 3094[20:34:21] <zerocool> thanks though
• 3095[20:34:30] <KdeKris> Right, currently OpenGL 3.0 is installed, and I'm stuck with software rendering. Before I upgraded my gpu, it only supported up to OpenGL 2.1, which is why this script caught my attention.
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• 3097[20:34:46] <KdeKris> annadane, no. That's why I'm still here instead of gaming right now. hahah.
• 3098[20:34:50] <greycat> KdeKris: it's parsing the output of glxinfo. What version does glxinfo say you have?
• 3099[20:34:57] <annadane> ah, shame
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• 3102[20:35:25] <KdeKris> OpenGL core profile version string: 3.3 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.1.4
• 3103[20:35:40] <zerocool> here's a question though... i have two nas's, one is nfs server that keeps disk images for vm's, i want to replicate these to another nas... anyone know of any good way to do this?
• 3104[20:35:44] <KdeKris> OpenGL version string: 3.1 Mesa 18.1.4
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• 3106[20:36:23] <zerocool> i just tried glusterfs, which worked and was super cool but then would break down and stop working and logs weren't really useful and the community is kinda dead
• 3107[20:36:41] <blackflow> zerocool: blackbox NAS you can't rsync from, or something you can rsync from? :)
• 3108[20:36:44] <zerocool> also ceph needs more hardware than i have, or i would already be on that
• 3109[20:36:54] <blackflow> or by replicate you mean... live, real time repl?
• 3110[20:37:04] <greycat> KdeKris: the thing you posted is looking for "OpenGL version string" and yours has "OpenGL core profile version string" so it fails
• 3111[20:37:08] <KdeKris> annadane, isn't it though? However, this script caught my eye, and I'm wondering what would happen if I disabled it. Say by renaming it
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• 3113[20:37:31] <KdeKris> It also shows OpenGL version string: 3.1 Mesa 18.1.4
• 3114[20:37:39] <zerocool> im talking 500gb files... rsync would need to move every GB every time, right? I'd like incremental backups, less reading/writing, less traffic
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• 3116[20:38:04] <greycat> rsync will attempt to transfer only those parts of the file that are changed, if it can
• 3117[20:38:06] <zerocool> gluster was doing this but would fail, repeatedly and randomly
• 3118[20:38:17] <zerocool> greycat: really!?
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• 3120[20:38:38] <blackflow> zerocool: rsync does delta, but do you want _realtime_ replication, like for redundancy, or just once, or something like daily?
• 3121[20:39:17] <blackflow> zerocool: here's a crazy idea: mdadm raid1 based on nbd drives mounted from the NASes :)
• 3122[20:39:19] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3123[20:39:33] <zerocool> blackflow: i basically just want backups, doesn't have to be 1:1, it can be like hourly
• 3124[20:40:06] <zerocool> i can quiesce the disks off their base images and rsync if it can delta, that is DOPE
• 3125[20:40:14] <blackflow> zerocool: I know what I'd do. ZFS and put those VMs on zvols. zfs can snapshot and send oover diffs with send|recv to another ZFS for backups. We have 5-minute backups on terabytes of data.
• 3126[20:40:44] *** Quits: ableto (~cryptum@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3128[20:40:58] <zerocool> blackflow: i was doing this with btrfs already, snapshot send and receive off-site over small pipes, yeah it would take like 5 minutes, was awesome
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• 3131[20:41:10] <blackflow> yeah but btrfs has no zvols
• 3132[20:41:34] *** Quits: hlam (~hlam@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3133[20:41:54] <zerocool> btrfs has volumes and since im using nfs and not iscsi this is essentially the same as a zvol
• 3134[20:42:24] <zerocool> zvols allow export as iscsi, you cannot do this with a btrfs volume :/
• 3135[20:42:40] <blackflow> it's not. zvol is a block device you can use directly as disk image for the VM. being block device, it doesn't have the overhead of a filesystem between the VM's filesystem and the raw storage
• 3136[20:42:54] <zerocool> that's basically what i am saying
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• 3138[20:43:19] <blackflow> I'd totally try to do some nbd magic for redundancy between multiple NAS thing. for fun if anything else :)
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• 3142[20:44:50] <blackflow> ZFS is also NFS aware, btw
• 3143[20:44:55] <KdeKris> zerocool, you an angelina jolie fan?
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• 3146[20:46:11] <zerocool> i am using kvm/libvirt and qemu, with qcow2 format disks... this is not compatible with the zvol idea, i don't think
• 3147[20:46:23] <zerocool> KdeKris: who isn't?
• 3148[20:47:05] <KdeKris> Well, not after like 2008, any time before that, and hell yeah.
• 3149[20:47:17] <blackflow> zerocool: no, so if you plan on using zvols, you use raw disk images.
• 3150[20:47:26] <KdeKris> Eh, I'd say Mr. and Mrs. Smith was her last good movie.
• 3151[20:47:34] <zerocool> blackflow: my issue when testing cow filesystems, snapshotting and send/receive, was with zfs i couldn't measure fragmentation
• 3152[20:47:37] <zerocool> i could with btrfs
• 3153[20:47:47] <zerocool> so, i just don't have enough information to go that route
• 3154[20:47:51] <blackflow> although I don't think that qcow + zvol has any significant overhead, both being CoWs, there's no same-block rewrite to be rewritten....
• 3155[20:48:00] *** Quits: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3156[20:48:06] <zerocool> we do use zfs already for vmware cluster sans
• 3157[20:48:14] *** Joins: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip)
• 3158[20:48:20] <blackflow> zerocool: what do you mean? zpool list shows you free space fragmentation estimate
• 3159[20:48:41] <blackflow> btrfs is a lying sack of.... lies, when you hit 50% of disk space and it starts balking about no space left.
• 3160[20:49:16] <zerocool> actually that's not true i have hit 99% before all vm's being paused
• 3161[20:49:35] <zerocool> that's on a btrfs raid 10 and everything
• 3162[20:49:48] <blackflow> zerocool: yes, I'm not sayig it happens _always_ :) it does happen with high fragmentation rate and if you forget to rebalance every once in a while.
• 3163[20:50:05] <Kocane15> Doesn't a debian server by default show what it's doing when shutting down/booting? what services is starting out etc
• 3164[20:50:07] <Kocane15> up*
• 3165[20:50:09] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: dionysus69)
• 3166[20:50:19] <greycat> no, not in recent versions
• 3167[20:50:25] <Kocane15> oh ok
• 3168[20:50:26] <greycat> the default is to include "quite" in grub now
• 3169[20:50:28] <mnuhmnuh> what a mess: "glxinfo | grep -i version" --> replaced-url
• 3170[20:50:32] <greycat> err "quiet"
• 3171[20:50:39] <blackflow> in fact, I'm pretty sure forgetting to rebalance and doing a lot of snapshotting is a quick way to be out of space with plenty of free space available.
• 3172[20:50:39] <zerocool> i use btrfs in production, we use it for fileservers all over, we replicate back to a central repo, we have recovered servers from these backups in no time, it's been 100% reliable... i think people just repeat what the see on the internet
• 3173[20:50:41] <Kocane15> so if I want more info I just edit the grub ?
• 3174[20:51:05] <zerocool> hourly backups, have been running for years
• 3175[20:51:05] <greycat> Kocane15: you can edit /etc/default/grub and then run update-grub
• 3176[20:51:17] <Kocane15> Cool, thanks!
• 3177[20:51:44] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip)
• 3178[20:51:46] <blackflow> zerocool: well possibly they do. I have run btrfs in prod too, along ZFS, until btrfs broke so hard we gave up for good, and that was _Before_ the whole raid56 incident. So I've seen it break with that free space fragmentation quite often.
• 3179[20:52:32] <blackflow> it can be best thing since sliced bread _now_, I wouldn't trust it. and I don't have any incentive to give it another shot, ZFS being so good.
• 3180[20:53:00] <blackflow> maybe ina couple of years, if ZFS doesn't get mainlined.
• 3181[20:53:10] <zerocool> i use to use hard drives until one day my hard drive crashed and i went back to paper, i never had a hard drive crash again
• 3182[20:53:19] <zerocool> i mean you can say that about anything
• 3183[20:53:30] <zerocool> i had a problem and i used something else and i never went back
• 3184[20:53:51] <blackflow> zerocool: but you know how it is. takes a long while to build up trust, and seconds to lose it.
• 3185[20:54:17] *** Joins: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip)
• 3186[20:54:39] <annadane> what other than grub uses update-foo?
• 3187[20:55:08] <annadane> bash autocomplete gives 6 on my system
• 3188[20:55:22] <blackflow> besides, some btrfs interfaces are abysmal. with `zfs list` I can see all I want. snapshots, sizes thereof, ref sizez etc... there's no such interface for btrfs, you have to use those numeric IDs or whatsit and the cross reference with subvol names.
• 3189[20:55:26] <annadane> none of which is update-grub interestingly
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• 3192[20:55:57] <greycat> update-alternatives is the other big one
• 3193[20:56:26] <zerocool> blackflow: yeah for sure
• 3194[20:56:40] <greycat> For some reason there are a handful in /usr/bin in addition to the much larger set in /usr/sbin
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• 3196[20:57:16] <greycat> update-rc.d *used* to be important
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• 3198[20:57:20] <blackflow> when is usr merge gonna happen.... soon I hope.
• 3199[20:57:39] *** Joins: johndoe173648 (~johndoe17@replaced-ip)
• 3200[20:58:01] <annadane> !usr merge
• 3201[20:58:09] <annadane> oh well. i'll look it up.
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• 3204[20:58:41] <[sr]> how do i prevent the php-fpm package on debian to start?
• 3205[20:58:49] <[sr]> used to exists the file in /etc/defaults
• 3206[20:58:54] <[sr]> to set the autostart
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• 3209[20:59:15] <zerocool> [sr]: systemctl disable php-fpm
• 3210[20:59:19] <zerocool> probably
• 3211[20:59:54] <greycat> replaced-url
• 3212[21:00:06] <greycat> so it should be systemctl disable php7.0-fpm
• 3213[21:00:23] <[sr]> that
• 3214[21:00:25] <[sr]> perfect
• 3215[21:01:07] <annadane> oh. right. /usr merge
• 3216[21:01:15] <annadane> that thing.
• 3217[21:01:36] <zerocool> what's usr merge
• 3218[21:01:42] <annadane> replaced-url
• 3219[21:01:45] <zerocool> everything getting moved into usr?
• 3220[21:02:11] <greycat> Oh, it's not a DEBIAN thing. That's why I've not heard of it.
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• 3223[21:02:59] <greycat> systemd wants to do something intrusive and controversial, to the point where they have to argue for it? nope, not even gonna read.
• 3224[21:03:16] <greycat> I already use precisely zero of the optional shit in systemd.
• 3225[21:03:30] <blackflow> zerocool: not _Every_thing, but a merge of /usr/bin with /bin and /usr/sbin with /sbin becuase as it is now is ridiculous and _only_ because many decades ago someone didn't have big enough drive and invented /usr
• 3226[21:03:38] <blackflow> it's not systemd this time.
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• 3229[21:04:17] <greycat> The primary motivation behind a separate /usr in the older days was read-only NFS-mounted /usr.
• 3230[21:04:27] <blackflow> there is literally NO reason for that split, other than "tradition" and "bareplaced-url
• 3231[21:04:39] <greycat> I just stated a reason.
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• 3234[21:05:30] <greycat> The stuff outside of /usr has to be sufficient to get you onto the network and able to mount NFS things. Then you mount /usr from the central NFS server. It's not a common setup NOW, but it was once.
• 3235[21:05:42] <blackflow> that's not the primary motivation for it though. insufficient disk space is.
• 3236[21:05:49] <drablyechos> I install a lot of stuff to /usr/local
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• 3238[21:05:59] <Nekojimi> I feel like I shouldn't judge on this issue, due to the fact that I continue to suffer from stupid decisions made on my part when I didn't have a big enough hard drive :P
• 3239[21:05:59] <annadane> can it happen just so everyone forgets the systemd debate ever happened? :)
• 3240[21:06:06] <drablyechos> things that aren't installed via package manager but that I want in my system PATH
• 3241[21:06:27] <drablyechos> (e.g., vault and terraform CLI binaries)
• 3242[21:06:33] <Nekojimi> I made /usr and /var their own partitions and only gave them 10GB each...
• 3243[21:06:56] <greycat> blackflow: if it makes you happy, HP-UX merged them decades ago. /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin in HP-UX 10
• 3244[21:06:59] <greycat> lr-xr-xr-t 1 root sys 8 Feb 10 2000 /bin -> /usr/bin
• 3245[21:07:12] <drablyechos> lol nice
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• 3248[21:08:04] <drablyechos> Is HP-UX like AIX?
• 3249[21:08:18] *** Joins: foo (~foo@replaced-ip)
• 3250[21:08:30] <foo> date is returning UTC time. How can I change that to CST? I don't think this will break anything else... hmm
• 3251[21:08:33] <blackflow> greycat: well, "happy". it's a mess right now. there's no sane unambiguous rule that states if something should go to /bin or /usr/bin
• 3252[21:09:07] <blackflow> and really, the only reason for the split was insufficient disk space, so Bell Labs engineers mounted another disk to /usr
• 3253[21:09:08] <greycat> And most people don't care. Why do you care?
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• 3257[21:10:00] <blackflow> greycat: becuse of sbin. I don't have it in PATH for unrpiv users and frequently have to go look for full paths, is it /sbin or is it /usr/sbin.
• 3258[21:10:10] *** Quits: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 3259[21:10:23] <drablyechos> this weird russian guy I worked with at my university once remarked that "I like AIX because it's so restrictive"
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• 3263[21:12:34] <mnuhmnuh> foo dpkg-reconfigure locales
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• 3268[21:14:23] <ayekat> blackflow: I just add the sbin paths to my PATH to work around that silliness
• 3269[21:14:49] <greycat> yeah, no sense denying yourself PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin:/sbin when you're the admin. It's there to protect your users, not you.
• 3270[21:14:50] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 3271[21:15:07] <ayekat> doesn't "protect" anyone IMHO
• 3272[21:15:21] <blackflow> sure but. if "disk space" is the only reason the split exists, and "most people don't care", so why not merge them ;)
• 3273[21:15:24] <greycat> that too, but the intent was to hide the "administration" commands
• 3274[21:15:29] *** Quits: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
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• 3277[21:15:46] <greycat> blackflow: you keep repeating this thing as if it were a fact, when it is not.
• 3278[21:15:47] *** Parts: rektide_ (~rektide@replaced-ip) ()
• 3279[21:16:06] <greycat> The ORIGINAL reason may have been "we need more disks" but other reasons evolved over time.
• 3280[21:16:23] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3281[21:16:23] <mnuhmnuh> greycat: like ifconfig. great.
• 3282[21:16:40] <blackflow> greycat: if there are other reasons, I don't see them. I see no pattern in deciding as to what goes under /usr/bin and what goes under /bin
• 3283[21:17:05] *** Joins: cryptic (~cryptic@replaced-ip)
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• 3285[21:17:23] <blackflow> otehr than "if it's not needed before you can mount stuff, then /usr is fine" falacy some people do
• 3286[21:17:23] <greycat> blackflow: as I said above, centrally managed NFS server with /usr on it, mounted read-only on "clients" was common a couple decades ago.
• 3287[21:18:06] <blackflow> greycat: but that's not the reason for the split, is it? that's a consequence of the split. toosl needed before NFS moutns become available, can't or shouldn't go to /usr
• 3288[21:18:21] <blackflow> because /usr could be NFS mounted. you're giving me a consequence of something, as a cause for that something.
• 3289[21:18:27] *** Quits: DonVlad (~vlad@replaced-ip) (Quit: Time for me to go.)
• 3290[21:19:08] <annadane> out of curiosity what protects the users for sbin not being in the path?
• 3291[21:20:09] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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• 3295[21:20:43] <ayekat> nobody is "protected" from anything, and any user can add any directory to their PATH if they wish so
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• 3298[21:21:24] <blackflow> it's more about forcing you to use full paths, as a good habit
• 3299[21:21:35] <greycat> *boggle*
• 3300[21:21:43] <greycat> what... you have a bizarre perception of things
• 3301[21:21:51] <mnuhmnuh> q. is, whay are users expected to not need /sbin in their PATH?
• 3302[21:22:04] *** Joins: rarity_ (~rarity_@replaced-ip)
• 3303[21:22:09] <blackflow> perhaps, but I agree it's not in any way an argument for or against, split /usr
• 3304[21:22:27] <greycat> But at leasst now I know why you are in favor of this merge. It's because of this bizarre self-imposed restriction.
• 3305[21:22:40] *** Joins: wonderworld (~ww@replaced-ip)
• 3306[21:22:56] <greycat> "It will be easier for me to do this weird difficult thing that I force myself to do."
• 3307[21:23:14] <annadane> good habit for what... anyway, this is off-topic, sorry
• 3308[21:23:25] <blackflow> it's not just that. I love nice, ordered systems. haphazardly choosing to put something under /usr/bin or /bin, is what bothers me.
• 3309[21:24:17] <blackflow> and clinging to tradition because it's tradition, I havea problem with that too :) but that's personal reasons, right? the usr merge is not something pushed by _my_ personal reasons.
• 3310[21:25:03] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip)
• 3311[21:25:11] <ayekat> I like systems that have merged all of /sbin, /bin, /usr/sbin and /usr/bin into one ^^
• 3312[21:25:20] <ayekat> it's a lot less head scratching
• 3313[21:25:44] <blackflow> personally I wouldn't mind that :)
• 3314[21:26:08] <mnuhmnuh> yeah, run x in single user mode!
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• 3317[21:26:50] <ayekat> ?
• 3318[21:27:48] *** Joins: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
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• 3324[21:29:27] <untitled> hello
• 3325[21:29:43] <untitled> can someone try this command 'runuser -l tomcat8 -c 'touch /tmp/a'' and tell me if the file gets created, please?
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• 3327[21:30:04] *** Joins: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip)
• 3328[21:30:32] <greycat> why would you think anyone else has a user named tomcat8
• 3329[21:30:53] <greycat> why don't you just do "ls -ld /tmp /tmp/a" and see if the permissions are OK?
• 3330[21:31:23] <annadane> my computer exploded. bits are everywhere. i have corroded metal in my hair. my bed is on fire.
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• 3333[21:31:39] <untitled> yeah, this is a two-part question :) annadane but the file got created?
• 3334[21:31:50] <annadane> i... didn't try the command at all
• 3335[21:32:08] <untitled> hmm... only thinking about running it works too
• 3336[21:32:20] <annadane> also where am i looking for the file, /tmp?
• 3337[21:32:24] <greycat> I think you should paste the output of ls -ld /tmp /tmp/a
• 3338[21:32:39] <annadane> and yeah just listen to greycat honestly
• 3339[21:33:00] <untitled> greycat: assuming /tmp has 777 rights on it and on my system the file doesn't get created
• 3340[21:33:05] <untitled> that's why I'm worried
• 3341[21:33:08] <greycat> 777 is wrong. it should be 1777.
• 3342[21:33:15] <greycat> I think you should paste the output of ls -ld /tmp /tmp/a
• 3343[21:33:35] *** Quits: drablyechos (~drablyech@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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• 3345[21:33:57] <untitled> drwxrwxrwt 11 root root 4096 Jul 18 22:17 /tmp/
• 3346[21:34:03] <untitled> /tmp/a doesn't get created
• 3347[21:34:26] <greycat> Assuming you actually typed "ls -ld /tmp/" instead of what I said to type, those permissions look correct.
• 3348[21:34:40] <greycat> Is the disk full?
• 3349[21:34:56] <untitled> no
• 3350[21:34:59] <greycat> Is /tmp or / mounted read-only for some reason? Can *root* create a file in /tmp?
• 3351[21:35:06] *** Quits: lldd_ (~atrapado@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 3354[21:35:37] <untitled> no, not read-only, root can create things and so can other login-users
• 3355[21:36:23] <greycat> Then perhaps it's something bizarre in tomcat8's dot files, like a self-imposed ulimit -f 0
• 3356[21:37:22] *** Joins: dazo (~freenode@replaced-ip)
• 3357[21:37:27] <greycat> although even with that, I'd expect a "touch" to be able to create a zero-sized file...
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• 3359[21:38:15] * greycat tests... yes, with ulimit -f 0, I can create a file with touch, but not redirect content into it.
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• 3364[21:40:08] <dazo> Hey! Any debian package maintainers here? I'm developing a brand new openvpn client for linux, based on the openvpn3 code base. But I would appreciate some help getting it packaged for Debian .... so anyone able and willing to help out?
• 3365[21:40:27] <annadane> !new maintainer's guide
• 3366[21:40:27] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
• 3367[21:40:30] <petn-randall> !debian-mentors
• 3368[21:40:30] <dpkg> Find packaging help for the Debian project in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net. If the channel is invite-only it's because you missed it being on OFTC.
• 3369[21:40:38] <petn-randall> dazo: You can find some info above. ^^^
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• 3373[21:41:21] <dazo> petwell, I would really like to share this effort with others .... I'm still working on making openvpn3-linux ready for a beta release
• 3374[21:41:23] <dazo> replaced-url
• 3375[21:41:35] *** Joins: relaxed (~relaxed@replaced-ip)
• 3376[21:41:52] <annadane> that's fine. not everyone will trust an unvetted vpn program, be warned
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• 3378[21:42:44] <dazo> annadane: I know ... I'm an OpenVPN Inc employee and have been working on the community OpenVPN for almost a decade (both free time and as fulltime job)
• 3379[21:43:38] *** Quits: mauz555 (~mauz555@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 3380[21:43:39] <dazo> but the OpenVPN 3 core library is also used by OpenVPN Connect ... and is behind the Private Tunnel service .... so we're quite confident that part of code is the code is good :)
• 3381[21:43:41] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip)
• 3382[21:44:10] <petn-randall> dazo: If you want to get involved, I'd head out to #debian-mentors, and also get in contact with the Debian maintainers of openvpn. They'll surely be interested. If you don't want to do the packaging work, that's also fine, in that case file a RFP bug, and poke the openvpn maintainers about it.
• 3383[21:44:18] *** Quits: udkyo (~udkyo@replaced-ip) (Quit: udkyo)
• 3384[21:44:49] <dazo> petn-randall: ahh, cool! I'll join -mentors and file the RFP
• 3385[21:45:09] <dazo> any templates I should use for the RFP?
• 3386[21:45:14] *** Quits: Guest52012 (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3387[21:45:18] <petn-randall> dazo: RFP = request for packaging, ITP = intent to package
• 3388[21:45:25] <petn-randall> (depending on what you want to do)
• 3389[21:46:15] *** Quits: dartleader (~dartleade@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.1)
• 3390[21:46:16] <petn-randall> dazo: If you have Debian already installed, you can just run 'reportbug' and let it guide you. If not, there's a fairly arcane email interface to the bug tracker.
• 3391[21:46:16] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip)
• 3392[21:46:34] <annadane> spread across 6 website entries...
• 3393[21:46:36] <dazo> Nah, I'm in the lions den here ... I'm a Fedora/RHEL user ... hence I need help ;-)
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• 3397[21:47:01] <petn-randall> hehe
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• 3399[21:47:28] <petn-randall> dazo: replaced-url
• 3400[21:47:32] <dazo> the Fedora/CentOS/RHEL package for tetsing can be found here: replaced-url
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• 3402[21:47:52] <dazo> petn-randall: thx! I'll look more closely at that :)
• 3403[21:48:11] <annadane> (that's actually not true, the debian documentation is fine)
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• 3405[21:48:50] <petn-randall> dazo: Cool! I appreciate the work you're putting into this. Just ping the channel if you need any help with anything.
• 3406[21:49:09] <petn-randall> I gotta go, see you around.
• 3407[21:49:12] <dazo> c'ya!
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• 3429[22:00:24] <jhutchins_wk> Is there no web interface for bugreporting?
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• 3431[22:00:27] *** shann_ is now known as shann
• 3432[22:00:35] <annadane> afaik no
• 3433[22:00:42] <annadane> just reportbug or email
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• 3439[22:02:18] <annadane> stuck in the 90's? arguably...
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• 3441[22:03:16] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 3442[22:03:30] <twobitsprite> annadane: The Debian project does pretty much everything over email and mailing lists
• 3443[22:04:30] <annadane> it's not like the bug reporting system is hard or hard to find or anything so i think it's ok
• 3444[22:04:59] *** Quits: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3445[22:05:15] <greycat> One might argue that people who can't configure a mail system aren't going to provide useful bug reports.
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• 3448[22:06:38] <twobitsprite> greycat: good point... it's self filtering
• 3449[22:07:10] <jhutchins_wk> Heh.
• 3450[22:07:11] *** semeion is now known as mnemonic
• 3451[22:07:27] <dazo> I don't mind the email approach. webUI so often tends to be over-complicated
• 3452[22:07:54] <dazo> lets see how well I did :-P
• 3453[22:08:22] <annadane> Bug report: Critical: "REMOVE SYSTEMD OMG"
• 3454[22:08:43] <dazo> :-P
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• 3457[22:09:20] <annadane> the only thing the debian website legitimately does terribly is the wiki and that's sort of a volunteer effort by necessity
• 3458[22:09:31] * blackflow slaps annadane with a big unfrozen trout.
• 3459[22:09:43] <annadane> and "terribly" is a stretch
• 3460[22:09:44] <foo> mnuhmnuh: thank you. I don't suspect dpkg-reconfigure locales will break or mess aynthing up, right?
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• 3463[22:11:42] <mnuhmnuh> foo: nothing's impossible, but it's a pretty safe tool. you can always "LANG=C $anycommand" if it fouls up.
• 3464[22:12:00] <foo> mnuhmnuh: thanks :D
• 3465[22:12:39] <annadane> largely because the wiki does actually differentiate between "this works on jessie" "this works on stretch"
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• 3467[22:13:16] <greycat> If there's a page you feel is incomplete or wrong, fix it. It's a wiki.
• 3468[22:13:33] <annadane> ^ pretty much
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• 3471[22:14:20] <mnuhmnuh> foo: tricky thing w locales is getting modern window managers to grok the latest/new setting. they can be slow to do so; logout, login, no; shutdown, restart, no; ...
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• 3473[22:14:39] <foo> mnuhmnuh: hmph, dpkg-reconfigure locales allowed me to set UTF but no timezone?
• 3474[22:14:51] <greycat> mnuhmnuh: sounds like GNOME. Always wrong, always impossible to fix.
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• 3477[22:15:24] <greycat> "but what if I just put the env var in my .xsessionrc" "nope, GNOME doesn't inherit anything from your session at all; it spawns everything from dbus"
• 3478[22:15:32] *** Joins: cadeskywalker (~madoka@replaced-ip)
• 3479[22:15:36] <greycat> "so I can't fix this..." "welcome to GNOME"
• 3480[22:16:26] <mnuhmnuh> foo: dpkg-reconfigure tzconfig?
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• 3483[22:17:35] <mnuhmnuh> or is it just tzconfig?
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• 3485[22:17:58] <blackflow> greycat: what's your preferred DE, btw?
• 3486[22:18:04] <greycat> None. I just use fvwm.
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• 3489[22:19:06] <jhutchins_wk> I've been using xfce since kde crashed and burned.
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• 3492[22:20:22] <blackflow> I grew sick of i3wm. I just gnome these days because I'm lazy, and thats on Ubuntu. Planning to switch to Debian and KDE (for plasma 5.12+ sweetness) when Buster becomes stable.
• 3493[22:20:36] <blackflow> (my main worsktation that is)
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• 3495[22:21:11] <annadane> icewm is really cool
• 3496[22:21:19] <annadane> and xfce for "stay out of my way thx"
• 3497[22:22:54] <annadane> dazo, replaced-url
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• 3502[22:26:02] <foo> mnuhmnuh: it's dpkg-reconfigure tzdata - thank you for getting me started
• 3503[22:26:08] <foo> Now, it asks for a city corresponding to timezone...
• 3504[22:26:13] <foo> anyone know a cityin CST that's popular? heh
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• 3507[22:26:33] <greycat> US Central would be Chicago
• 3508[22:26:49] <greycat> If you mean something else by CST you will have to explain.
• 3509[22:27:20] <foo> greycat: perfect!
• 3510[22:27:31] <foo> greycat: thank you :)
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• 3556[22:58:38] <foo> I wonder if I have to reboot for dpkg-reconfigure tzdata to take effect?
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• 3558[22:59:08] <ksk> foo: if you can reboot easily Id recommend that.
• 3559[22:59:26] <ksk> restarting services should be enough though as far as I can tell you.
• 3560[22:59:42] <foo> ksk: yeah, I thought so too - but restarting the service didn't seem to matter. maybe the timezone is defined in there, will dig a bit
• 3561[22:59:45] *** Quits: FreEm1nD (~FreEm1nD@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3562[22:59:45] <foo> thanks
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• 3565[23:01:51] <hypn0> I think there might be several you have to restart not just 1
• 3566[23:01:59] <mnuhmnuh> assuming the old locale isn't hardcoded in one of your startup files (.bash_profile, ...).
• 3567[23:02:12] <foo> hypn0: ah
• 3568[23:02:15] <hypn0> replaced-url
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• 3570[23:03:19] <greycat> The obvious thing you'd want to restart after changing time zone is cron.
• 3571[23:03:28] <greycat> Less obvious things may also be running.
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• 3575[23:05:33] <vook> Question about static-bindings/reservations: When a reservation is created, must the pool be modified to account for it? I've been adding reservations at the bottom of the zone conf, but when the IP is still in the pool, it seems other clients tend to pick up the IP. Example: replaced-url
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• 3577[23:05:40] <vook> in isc-dhcp that is
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• 3579[23:06:22] <vook> Basically we're trying to script this out for our NOC so they can add a reservation without needing to directly modify the file. If the pool must be adjusted, that makes scripting it a bit more complicated.
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• 3622[23:30:41] <diverdude> I am running weezy. Is it possible to install gstreamer1.14 on weezer?
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• 3631[23:35:06] <BCMM> diverdude: you mean Debian 7 "wheezy", right?
• 3632[23:35:24] <diverdude> BCMM: yeah
• 3633[23:35:46] <somiaj> diverdude: wheezy isn't really supported anymore, and desktopapps are most likely insecure.
• 3634[23:35:54] <diverdude> somiaj: i know
• 3635[23:35:59] <BCMM> diverdude: that's out of LTS for like a month and a half now
• 3636[23:36:01] <diverdude> somiaj: but i have to use it
• 3637[23:36:01] <somiaj> you rea kinda on your own, and yes you can try to build stuff for it if you like.
• 3638[23:36:14] <BCMM> diverdude: is there, like, a really good reason you can't upgrade?
• 3639[23:36:25] <diverdude> BCMM: its running linuxcnc
• 3640[23:36:54] <diverdude> BCMM: linuxcnc is using wheezy realtime capabilities
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• 3642[23:37:10] <BCMM> huh, wheezy had realtime as a supported option?
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• 3645[23:38:04] <BCMM> diverdude: is linux-image-rt-amd64 not realtime enough?
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• 3649[23:38:46] <diverdude> BCMM: is that a newer version of debian?
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• 3652[23:39:13] <BCMM> diverdude: that's a realtime kernel package, available for [ wheezy ] [ jessie-backports ] [ stretch ] [ stretch-backports ] [ buster ]
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• 3660[23:39:44] <BCMM> using CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT
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• 3664[23:40:32] <diverdude> BCMM: aha i see
• 3665[23:40:42] <zerocool> does rsync over ssh fork
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• 3667[23:41:51] <zerocool> and does that mean it'll make better use of lacp
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• 3669[23:42:58] <BCMM> diverdude: oh right, it wants replaced-url
• 3670[23:43:07] <BCMM> which seems to legitimately bee only on wheezy?
• 3671[23:43:28] <twobitsprite> zerocool: not sure what forking has to do with lacp...
• 3672[23:43:56] <twobitsprite> zerocool: lacp should split packets between the routes either way
• 3673[23:44:46] <somiaj> still might be better to run a newer version of debian and comple the few things you need for linuxcnc. I see various hits on the linuxcnc forms about getting it to work in jessie or stretch
• 3674[23:44:49] <diverdude> BCMM: one guy said he is running it on mint 18.3 actually after building a Preempt-RT real time kernel
• 3675[23:45:06] <somiaj> and since you seem to be using it as a desktop (gstreamer), you may want stretch, as jessie lost desktop support recentally, and only has serverside lts support.
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• 3677[23:45:26] <BCMM> somiaj: looks like they provide a debian repo with jessie kernels at least replaced-url
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• 3679[23:45:35] <BCMM> not fantastically searchable...
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• 3682[23:46:45] <BCMM> replaced-url
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• 3692[23:52:53] <diverdude> BCMM: i dont know what the difference between rtai and rt-prempt is
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