People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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5 [00:03:55] <XsiSec> Hi guys how do I disable --> 'snd_hda_codec_hdmi hdaudioC1D0'?
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45 [00:27:47] <jhutchins> !pulseaudio
46 [00:27:47] <dpkg> PulseAudio (formerly Polypaudio) is a cross-platform network sound server, intended as a drop-in replacement for <ESD>. Packaged for Debian since 4.0 "Etch", read /usr/share/doc/pulseaudio/README.Debian after installation for configuration recommendations; Debian specific how-to is at replaced-url
47 [00:29:10] <jhutchins> psichas: Open a browser. Point it at your favorite search engine. Type in dircolors.
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105 [01:07:56] <annadane> is there an xfce screensaver package in the repo, i did a search and couldn't really find one, and it doesn't appear in my settings manager whereas it did before
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107 [01:08:43] <annadane> via apt search screensaver | grep -i screensaver i notice xdg-utils which i have installed
108 [01:08:53] <annadane> err, i mean grep -i installed
109 [01:09:55] <annadane> maybe this xfce just doesn't have an automatic screensaver
110 [01:10:38] <annadane> ignore me, dumb question
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136 [01:37:55] <annadane> hmm, i installed the kernel from backports and then removed it, it had previously installed apparmor, yet apparmor does not now appear in the apt autoremove list, i wonder why
137 [01:38:07] <psichas> jhutchins, why my terminal text don't blink?
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140 [01:38:55] <hypn0> I just got a rectangle
141 [01:38:57] <annadane> maybe because i only removed it, not purged it?
142 [01:39:35] <hypn0> why use sceensavers :-/
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146 [01:42:30] <annadane> purging it with -s seems to not do it, either
147 [01:42:33] <annadane> maybe apparmor is special
148 [01:43:32] <annadane> or maybe removing packages from backports won't do that
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177 [02:17:46] <rant> annadane: installing mate-screensaver or xscreensaver should probably resolve that
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186 [02:22:20] <CodeHunter> Can anyone please help me with getting xrandr to center my screen? I created a new mode using the maximum resolution for my monitor but the screen is not centered. It is off to the left.
187 [02:22:51] <rant> CodeHunter: you should probably correct tha on your monitor not in X
188 [02:23:09] <rant> some monitors even have auto positioning
189 [02:23:20] <rant> and most will remember position settings for each display mode
190 [02:23:47] <rant> so tweaking X which with xrandr isn permanent/persistant rather than your monitor is probably counterintuitive
191 [02:23:49] <CodeHunter> When I use the mode it choose (1024x768) it centers. I will try that.
192 [02:24:02] <rant> just keep the mode you want, but set the monitor
193 [02:24:02] <CodeHunter> Thank you
194 [02:24:10] <CodeHunter> brb
195 [02:24:15] <rant> its remembering the positioning for each mode
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197 [02:24:31] <rant> once you set it, it should stay that way
198 [02:25:04] <CodeHunter> Thst fixed it.
199 [02:25:10] <CodeHunter> That fixed it
200 [02:25:29] <CodeHunter> Thank you for your help.
201 [02:25:44] <rant> um.. ok.. not sure if you took my advice or not :P
202 [02:25:53] <CodeHunter> I did.
203 [02:26:04] <rant> ah, sounded like you were just using a different resolution
204 [02:26:28] <CodeHunter> I chose the 1600x1200 resolution that I made, then I hit the 'Auto' on the monitor and waited for it to end and all is centered.
205 [02:26:31] <rant> but yeah its better to adjust the display in this case unless its horribly off beyond what the display can correct
206 [02:26:35] <CodeHunter> Is that what you said to do?
207 [02:26:48] <rant> yes.. my viewsonic has an autoadjust too
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211 [02:27:14] <CodeHunter> I am running a samsung 21.3 inch monitor max res 1600x1200
212 [02:27:24] <rant> this way it resets what the monitor considers "Default" position for that mode, allowing the machine to still use what it considered "default" or "centered"
213 [02:27:44] <rant> doing it on the X side would be tricky to make persistent then it'd be off anytime you used another display or mode
214 [02:27:46] <CodeHunter> Thank you.
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216 [02:28:01] <CodeHunter> Yeah that makes sense.
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220 [02:29:20] <rant> I hit the auto position by accident on my viewsonic a lot cause it has 4 buttons 1 < > 2 and usually 1 is menu and 2 is select, and the arrows move, but if you press 2 when not in a menu it autopositions
221 [02:29:40] <rant> which depending on what's on your screen at the time.. heh.. it can confuse auto positioning
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225 [02:33:00] <CodeHunter> This one has 6 "Auto" "Exit/Source" "-" "+" "Menu" "Power"
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227 [02:34:02] <CodeHunter> I use multiple monitors with dual inputs and have different PCs use them. The "Source" will swap between the inputs on the Samsung.
228 [02:34:05] <rant> yeah sometimes you gota do manual adjust cause the auto doesnt always get it right.. depends on whats on the screen at the time
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230 [02:34:31] <rant> I use a samsung 24" tv as my main display
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233 [02:34:47] <CodeHunter> Widescreen or full screen (4:3)?
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235 [02:35:14] <rant> the tv is 16:9, my viewsonic is 17" 5:4
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238 [02:35:34] <CodeHunter> I believe this samsung is 4:3
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242 [02:35:53] <CodeHunter> I have 2 samsung 4:3 monitors and a ew 16:9 monitors.
243 [02:36:02] <rant> at least I think its 5:4 nattive.. might be 4:3
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245 [02:36:04] <CodeHunter> and a few
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256 [02:36:38] <CodeHunter> I prefer the old 4:3 but trying to adapt to the 16:9
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258 [02:37:00] <CodeHunter> The acer I use is LED instead of LCD
259 [02:37:03] <rant> I just realized after months of using PC speakers that DP does audio.. my machine only has DisplayPort and I am using a DP->HDMI converter and thought DP didnt do audio :P
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261 [02:37:20] <CodeHunter> lol
262 [02:37:42] <dvs> oops
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268 [02:38:01] <rant> I'd never used DisplayPort before.. I just assumed since it had Display in the name.. heh
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270 [02:38:18] <rant> HDMI kinda implies it does more than just video
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275 [02:39:18] <CodeHunter> I have an older PC that runs a display port that ran debian but something went wrong on it and I haven't bothered to fix it. I should sometime.
276 [02:39:55] <CodeHunter> POssibly the HD went on it. I just had an SSD die after only a month of use
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279 [02:40:14] <dvs> no surprise
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282 [02:40:34] <rant> I've been using one of thes HP Thin Client's, a t520 it works beautifully with debian.. supports two displays either via 2 DisplayPorts or as I've been using it 1DP and 1VGA.
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287 [02:42:26] <CodeHunter> I am running the HP workstation z230 here. DV-I and 2 DP outputs, but I only use the DV-I fpr now.
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293 [02:43:38] <rant> I was considering saving up for a HP Z2 Mini G3 workstation.. they say those can run 6 displays.. but I'm pretty satisfied with this much cheaper option :P
294 [02:44:09] <CodeHunter> This one I bought without the HD and 4GB RAM for $160
295 [02:44:14] <lessthan0> I did some reading about 4K align of partitions and I think I am brave enough to try it without a backup
296 [02:44:20] <CodeHunter> I am now running 12GB ram
297 [02:44:25] <lessthan0> there is no data on that machine anyway
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299 [02:44:39] <rant> yeah well desktops can be built more cheaply and modular like.. but I was looking for somehing small
300 [02:44:50] <lessthan0> the debian rescue shell has both fdisk and parted
301 [02:45:45] <CodeHunter> I have an old and quite small HP system here and it is a pest to work inside it. Slimline s7600e
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303 [02:47:22] <rant> yeah well I only took this apart to clean it and make sure the thermal paste was good and not all dried out.. as these thin clients have no fans.. most the work you do on small form factor machines like these with SoC is done on the outside anyhow :P
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310 [02:51:42] <rant> that Z2 Mini G3 though was like a desktop in mini form though.. had Core i cpu, discreet gpu, etc.. was rated better than alienware's mini
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312 [02:52:13] <rant> they're just like $700 or more depending on configuration :P
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317 [03:03:47] <Guest43325> Vinci you here
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323 [03:08:04] <lessthan0> intel has the nuc 8 with vega
324 [03:08:10] <lessthan0> not sure if it can linux
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326 [03:08:35] <lessthan0> but it is pretty bad ass for ultra small high end pc
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329 [03:13:02] <Dat> /wc
330 [03:13:06] <Dat> fail
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335 [03:21:43] <lessthan0> !help /wc
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376 [03:54:43] <linurandy> hello to everyone do you think that Debian is a great option to install openstack in a prroduction enviroinment
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384 [03:59:25] <jvava> I was tortured by upgrading debian 9 from debian 8 for the whole weekend,
385 [03:59:32] <lessthan0> "Devstack attempts to support Ubuntu 16.04/17.04, Fedora 24/25, CentOS/RHEL 7, as well as Debian and OpenSUSE."
386 [03:59:57] <lessthan0> it does not say a version for debian
387 [04:00:12] <lessthan0> and ubuntu 17.04 is old
388 [04:00:15] <jvava> "unable to install grub in dummy", so I format disk and install old debian jessie,
389 [04:00:31] <lessthan0> 16.04 with updates may actually be better
390 [04:00:37] <lessthan0> centos is closer to AWS
391 [04:00:47] <jvava> this time grub installation successed, but does not display grub menu.
392 [04:01:09] <lessthan0> I think you could do it on debian maybe but centos or redhat would probably be closer to the real world
393 [04:01:53] *** Quits: jasmith (~jasmith@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
394 [04:02:03] <lessthan0> ubuntu and red hat/centos are different
395 [04:02:16] <jvava> lessthan0: are you a bot?
396 [04:02:23] <lessthan0> red hat or centos are probably better for larger clouds
397 [04:02:40] <lessthan0> do I look like a bot?
398 [04:02:49] <jvava> yes
399 [04:02:50] *** Quits: banc (~master@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
400 [04:02:57] <lessthan0> why do you say that?
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402 [04:05:25] <jvava> blah blah blah and no intention to do anything
403 [04:06:39] <lessthan0> you assessed that I have no motivation to do anything from reading a few lines of text?
404 [04:07:21] <jvava> sorry, never mind
405 [04:07:25] <annadane> i am a bot, and i suggest we not have this offtopic discussion in #debian and derail the ongoing support questions
406 [04:07:33] <lessthan0> anybody can attack anyone by saying they blah blah blah this is chat room
407 [04:07:41] <lessthan0> your argument is silly
408 [04:09:26] <jvava> lessthan0, go on
409 [04:09:51] <lessthan0> this is #debian for debian support
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414 [04:17:48] <monty86> anyone opensuse package maintainers here?
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427 [04:22:58] <rant> why do people keep asking that in here?
428 [04:23:14] <lessthan0> why does the debian guided partitioning leave 1MB unallocated space between sda1 and sda2?
429 [04:23:24] <lessthan0> is there a functional reason for it?
430 [04:23:28] <rant> what possesses you to come to a channel where debian users support debian stable and ask if there are opensuse maintainers?
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433 [04:24:05] <rant> lessthan0: probably not, just the default alignment setting most likely
434 [04:24:50] <lessthan0> its not worth the trouble to worry about it I guess
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437 [04:25:13] <rant> partitions can be aligned a number of ways and most often they are aligned by some physical geometry which doesnt really coincide with the logical values given
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439 [04:25:46] <lessthan0> well it is 4K aligned
440 [04:26:06] <lessthan0> the sda1 starts at sector 2048 which is also 1MB aligned
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442 [04:26:26] <lessthan0> so it has maximum compatibility for the boot partition sda1
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444 [04:26:36] <rant> yeah well its like slicing a pie in quarters (4 slices physical) and you saying you only want 180 calories of pie.. when a slice is 400cal or something
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446 [04:26:57] <lessthan0> but I don't see why they skip exactly 1MB before sda2
447 [04:27:03] <rant> only difference is this isn't just gonna say NO PIE FOR YOU
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449 [04:28:04] <lessthan0> probably it aligns sda1 and sda2 to 1MB and align to 4K
450 [04:29:05] <lessthan0> so that unallocated space 1MB is probably a few bytes smaller than the 2048 sectors it would take to = 1MB
451 [04:30:04] <lessthan0> the LVM mappper probably needs to address in chunks of 2048 sectors 512 bytes each
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453 [04:30:42] <lessthan0> I learned a lot today. today was a good day.
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456 [04:34:33] <jvava> these little gap between partitions is wasting, right?
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459 [04:35:25] <lessthan0> wasting 1MB but I have a 1TB drive
460 [04:35:36] <lessthan0> and I think it is required for the LVM mapper
461 [04:35:54] <jvava> but my root partition has only 8G,
462 [04:36:01] <lessthan0> so I can't change it without breaking the boot loader that depends on LVM
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465 [04:36:50] <lessthan0> 8000MB
466 [04:37:16] <lessthan0> how much ram do you have?
467 [04:37:34] <lessthan0> no swap partition probably on a 8GB drive
468 [04:37:54] <jvava> I saw these unallocated space at the beginning and end, and place between ntfs partions and ext4
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470 [04:38:02] <jvava> lessthan0: 8G ram
471 [04:38:16] <lessthan0> you don't need a swap partition
472 [04:38:20] <jvava> yes
473 [04:38:32] <jvava> swap really is another waste
474 [04:38:46] <linurandy> i think that in debian 10 should appear django >=2.0
475 [04:38:49] <lessthan0> I think it slows the machine down but I could be wrong
476 [04:39:01] <jvava> because when it is used, the system become too slow to endure
477 [04:39:09] <lessthan0> in older versions of ubuntu I did live usb with persistent storage
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479 [04:39:24] <rustbuckett> it's my understanding that swap is only really used if your ram is full (or almost full)
480 [04:39:30] <lessthan0> if I also did swap on the usb 8GB drive it would be super slow
481 [04:40:11] <lessthan0> I think ubuntu 14 was just checking how much ram + swap you have and it would use it all to speed up thunderbird
482 [04:40:47] <jvava> seem that can be tuned, such as what percent mem then swap
483 [04:40:59] <lessthan0> but if it was shared with the boot drive it would be putting twice the IO to the USB flash drive
484 [04:41:41] <jvava> but as soon as swap is used, the system become super slow, so have to swap off, it is a notebook
485 [04:41:42] <lessthan0> so instead of going faster it would just go super slow
486 [04:42:15] <lessthan0> I think the persistent storage was casper and casper is compressed
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489 [04:42:38] <lessthan0> probably used the swap as ram to compress and decompress casper on the fly
490 [04:42:54] <lessthan0> like 4 times the IO
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494 [04:45:20] <jvava> lessthan0, have you upgraded to debian 9?
495 [04:45:42] <lessthan0> I just installed debian 9.4 for the first time last week
496 [04:45:46] <lessthan0> I love it
497 [04:46:36] <jvava> I have not, there a failure to install grub efi
498 [04:46:37] <lessthan0> I tried red hat gnome, kde, ubuntu, ubuntu mate, ubuntu lxde, xfce,
499 [04:47:07] <lessthan0> I forced EFI in the bios so the installer for debian is definitely running in EFI %100
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501 [04:47:43] <lessthan0> it took a few days of research to understand everything that the installer failed to do properly
502 [04:47:46] <jvava> I do, but now the dual boot does not work, each time it startup win10 directly
503 [04:47:53] <jvava> without grub menu to select
504 [04:48:02] <lessthan0> the installer is not %100 perfect on every bios
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506 [04:48:31] <jvava> yes
507 [04:48:38] <lessthan0> ok I think I can help
508 [04:48:59] <lessthan0> what did you do first. format then install windows?
509 [04:49:07] <lessthan0> then debian?
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511 [04:49:36] <lessthan0> what motherboard?
512 [04:49:43] <lessthan0> what hard drive?
513 [04:49:52] <jvava> lessthan0, I have win10 and debian jessie, all works perfectly
514 [04:50:06] <jvava> but yesterday, I upgrade to debian 9
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516 [04:50:16] <lessthan0> and it breaks grub?
517 [04:50:31] <lessthan0> how did you do the install? CD or network?
518 [04:50:35] <jvava> yes
519 [04:50:40] <lessthan0> I mean the upgrade
520 [04:50:55] <lessthan0> you upgraded or erased debian 8?
521 [04:50:55] <jvava> network, I just run 'apt-get upgrade' ...
522 [04:50:59] <lessthan0> ok
523 [04:51:06] <lessthan0> and grub breaks?
524 [04:51:14] <jvava> yes
525 [04:51:30] <jvava> it fail to install grub efi
526 [04:51:45] <lessthan0> how did it work before when it was debian 8. in the bios did it say UEFI windows?
527 [04:51:51] <jvava> and after restart, grub menu did not display
528 [04:51:57] <lessthan0> or EFI debian?
529 [04:52:09] <jvava> EFI
530 [04:52:17] <lessthan0> so the bios says EFI?
531 [04:52:20] <jvava> yes
532 [04:52:30] <lessthan0> can you boot win 10 now?
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534 [04:53:16] <jvava> yes, and I can boot the debian when I press f9 and select the efi file of debian
535 [04:53:43] <lessthan0> this is on one hard drive with linux + win10?
536 [04:53:51] <jvava> yes
537 [04:54:08] <lessthan0> what was installed first, win 10 or deb 8?
538 [04:54:31] <lessthan0> were you the one that partitioned the hard drive?
539 [04:54:32] <jvava> win10, hp notebook
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541 [04:54:52] <lessthan0> do you remember how you partitioned it?
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543 [04:55:08] <jvava> fdisk
544 [04:55:28] <jvava> it works for years, the dual boot
545 [04:55:33] <lessthan0> you have all the windows stuff at the beginning of the drive and you resize the windows partition to leave space at the end of the drive correct?
546 [04:55:43] <jvava> I remembed I bought it in 2015
547 [04:55:58] <lessthan0> then fdisk to make ext4 at the end of the drive?
548 [04:56:30] <jvava> orginally the disk was split into two partition, each about 200g
549 [04:56:36] <lessthan0> ok
550 [04:56:43] <lessthan0> windows at the beginning
551 [04:56:47] <lessthan0> windows was there first
552 [04:57:02] <lessthan0> then did some partitioning and added linux
553 [04:57:11] <jvava> then I split the second into 4 for linux ext4
554 [04:57:22] <jvava> yes
555 [04:57:38] <lessthan0> so / /root /swap /boot
556 [04:57:44] <lessthan0> something like that maybe
557 [04:57:49] <jvava> yes, and /home
558 [04:57:52] <lessthan0> ok
559 [04:57:56] <lessthan0> all ext4?
560 [04:58:00] <jvava> yes
561 [04:58:10] <lessthan0> ok this next part is critical
562 [04:58:16] <jvava> root size is 8g, and home about 200g
563 [04:58:27] <lessthan0> when you installed grub how did you do it
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565 [04:58:50] <lessthan0> automatic?
566 [04:58:53] <jvava> I installed debian jessie from a usb stick
567 [04:59:24] <lessthan0> there is also #grub
568 [04:59:28] <jvava> grub was installed in the debian installation stage
569 [04:59:50] <lessthan0> after the installer finished?
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571 [05:00:12] <jvava> I remembered the dual-boot did not worked, but I forget how I do then it worked.
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573 [05:00:41] <lessthan0> the bios will usually find the linux boot loader
574 [05:00:46] <jvava> then for years it works, until yesterday upgrading debian 9
575 [05:00:50] <lessthan0> on most machines it is F8
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577 [05:01:08] <lessthan0> or go into bios setup and select a boot partition
578 [05:01:19] <lessthan0> you said F9 that could be it
579 [05:01:21] <jvava> no choice in bios
580 [05:01:26] <jvava> yes, f9
581 [05:01:38] <lessthan0> that is the bios then
582 [05:01:44] <lessthan0> just not the setup screen
583 [05:01:59] <lessthan0> the bios looks at the first 4 partitions
584 [05:02:04] <lessthan0> that is all it can do
585 [05:02:09] <lessthan0> it does not need grub
586 [05:02:11] <jvava> yes
587 [05:02:26] <somiaj> uefi vs legacy boot could matter, and linux secure boot isn't fully supported.
588 [05:02:36] <jvava> I win10 use efi, So debian have to
589 [05:02:38] <lessthan0> but if grub is first on one of those 4 primary partitions then it will know and it will be in the menu in F9
590 [05:02:46] <somiaj> make sure secure boot is disabled
591 [05:02:50] <jvava> yes
592 [05:02:53] <jvava> disabled
593 [05:03:06] <lessthan0> he could be on UEFI with CSM
594 [05:03:27] <jvava> at last I decided restore to debian jessie
595 [05:03:29] <lessthan0> that is a real mess because CSM works all different on all different machines
596 [05:03:37] <lessthan0> the boot order is not clear
597 [05:03:45] <jvava> this time grub is installed, but grub menu does not display
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599 [05:04:01] <lessthan0> well if you can F9 then mission accomplished
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601 [05:04:18] <jvava> yes, but I wouldn't press f9 each time
602 [05:04:21] <lessthan0> after you get into linux you can look at everything
603 [05:04:42] <lessthan0> it is hard for me to look at all the details
604 [05:04:51] <jvava> it is ok if efi file can be set to default in bios
605 [05:04:51] <lessthan0> but you can do it with fdisk -l
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607 [05:05:08] <lessthan0> then you can man grub
608 [05:05:32] <lessthan0> and try #grub
609 [05:05:33] <jvava> I feel efibootmgr can do the job, but I have to recompile kernel to get the module
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613 [05:06:00] <lessthan0> I am lucky that I never had to get to deep into grub
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616 [05:06:16] <lessthan0> I can edit grub config but the rest I never needed to do
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618 [05:06:33] <jvava> can I complain win10 here?
619 [05:07:04] <lessthan0> only now this last week I learned how to read opcodes for jump so I can really dig into boot loaders in hex
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622 [05:07:47] <lessthan0> I never knew win10 would boot in EFI
623 [05:07:55] <lessthan0> I still don't believe it
624 [05:08:06] <lessthan0> you must be on UEFI/EFI
625 [05:08:08] <jvava> yes, it boot in EFI
626 [05:08:13] <lessthan0> or UEFI with CSM
627 [05:08:20] <jvava> sorry , it is UEFI
628 [05:08:32] <lessthan0> the bios boots win 10 in UEFI always
629 [05:08:46] <jvava> yes
630 [05:08:48] <lessthan0> it is %100 impossible to boot win 10 on EFI only
631 [05:09:01] <jvava> you are right
632 [05:09:16] <jvava> it took a whole day to upgrade win10
633 [05:09:16] <lessthan0> so if you are booting linux with F9 and you know linux boot loader is EFI
634 [05:09:29] <lessthan0> that tells me your bios is backwards compatible
635 [05:09:46] <lessthan0> there are only 3 ways that can happen
636 [05:09:57] <lessthan0> mixed UEFI/EFI
637 [05:10:06] <jvava> for years I never start win10, but weekend debian go wrong , so I have to open win 10 to find answer, but it is super slow,
638 [05:10:08] <lessthan0> F9 select UEFI/EFI
639 [05:10:13] <lessthan0> or UEFI CSM
640 [05:10:20] <jvava> then I try to upgrade win10, but it took a whole day
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644 [05:11:38] <jvava> and debian root size is only 8g, but the fucked win10 occupied 200g
645 [05:11:38] <lessthan0> I am gonna stop here because I can't trouble shoot it any more without being there IRL
646 [05:11:49] <lessthan0> and you already have it working with F9
647 [05:12:01] <lessthan0> you can fix it with reading about grub
648 [05:12:03] <jvava> yes, thank you lessthan0
649 [05:12:11] <lessthan0> ok your welcome
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653 [05:13:33] <jelly> > <jvava> yes, and I can boot the debian when I press f9 and select the efi file of debian # this means you just need to tell EFI to boot that by default, either in firmware setup, or with efibootmgr
654 [05:14:31] <jelly> that "efi file of debian" _is_ grub, already there
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659 [05:21:13] <jvava> jelly, thank you for assure of that
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661 [05:21:52] <jvava> but the efi file is from debian 8, not from debian 9, does it matter?
662 [05:22:29] <jvava> debian9 fail to install grub, so I restore to debian8, and plan to try upgrade 9
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667 [05:25:16] <jelly> if you don't have debian 9 any more it probably does not matter?
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673 [05:28:34] <jvava> jelly, I will try, thank you very much
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675 [05:31:35] <violentE> okay, I'm a bit new to verifying iso's but I really wanted to get this down. So I downloaded firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso from replaced-url
676 [05:31:35] <violentE> signature from "Debian CD signing key <debian-cd@lists.debian.org>" [unknown]. I thought the unknown bit stood out to me so I looked up that signature and it can't be found at all on replaced-url
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684 [05:34:49] <Tech_Linux_5000> hi
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723 [06:23:06] <siraben> Is there Wayland support on Debian yet?
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727 [06:26:01] <rpifan> hi
728 [06:26:05] <Tech_Linux_5000> hi
729 [06:26:11] <Tech_Linux_5000> how are you?
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731 [06:26:59] <rpifan> im u
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734 [06:29:32] <Tom-_> !wayland
735 [06:29:32] <dpkg> Wayland is a display server protocol and implementation library, intended as a simpler replacement for the X Window System. Ask me about <weston>. replaced-url
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748 [06:37:07] <Tech_Linux_5000> how are you
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754 [06:40:51] <annadane> Tech_Linux_5000, hi. do you have a debian question?
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756 [06:41:41] <Tech_Linux_5000> annadane: no
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776 [06:53:14] <sulit_> curses lost in the gnome-terminal after switching input method on debian9+
777 [06:54:01] <sulit_> cursor
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780 [06:54:32] <sulit_> have everyone this problem?
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782 [06:54:54] <sulit_> cursor lost in the gnome-terminal after switching input method on debian9+
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791 [07:01:25] <demonblue> sulit_, try to provide more details of what you did and what happened, then define your problem more and someone may provide an answer
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796 [07:04:52] <sulit_> demonblue, i open the gnome-terminal, input english(cursor ok), then switch to chinese input method(cursor lost), cursor also lost in the vim
797 [07:05:26] <sulit_> the input method framework is ibus
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801 [07:07:36] <sulit_> i don't know that , is the problem ibus bug? or is X driver bug?
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803 [07:08:18] <dgp> Not saying it is an ibus issue but I've seen weird stuff like that with ibus and switching being english and japanese
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809 [07:13:20] <Tech_Linux_5000> hi
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811 [07:17:32] <sulit_> dgp, the problem must be take place for 100%
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813 [07:18:27] <sulit_> dgp, i will hava a try for using fcitx input method.
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849 [07:40:13] <AluCio> hey guys i need help i have a list.txt with scores about students, the format is, studant: 15.18 name: larissa score: 10 (9ª) i need edit all the file, to put just name anda score like it -> larissa:10 someone can help me?
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852 [07:41:29] <dgp> AluCio: you could do it with a shell script. Read each line, use cut or something to pull out the fields into variables and the echo out the new format
853 [07:41:58] <dgp> Someone could probably come up with a single like for awk, perl, etc that could do it doo
854 [07:42:42] <AluCio> but I do not know using programming language
855 [07:42:50] <AluCio> bashscript
856 [07:42:52] <AluCio> etc..
857 [07:43:42] <dgp> You'll need to find someone to do it for your or learn then
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862 [07:48:53] <somiaj> awk is farily simple and it will probably be easier to learn than to get someone to do it for you
863 [07:49:18] <somiaj> If the files are fairly regular, awk will just call the various things in the line $1, $2, $3, seperated by spaces.
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874 [07:57:00] <evenom> what is best way to emulate full android on debian?
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876 [07:58:00] <jim> evenom, there's emulators so that android devs can debug their code
877 [07:58:27] <AluCio> somiaj
878 [07:58:29] <AluCio> humm
879 [07:58:39] <AluCio> ill look it
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883 [08:01:38] <evenom> jim. should i just go with sdk? i would rather use virtual box to keep sys management simpler, but cant find decent opensource project and dont want to mess around to make my own :/
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899 [08:10:42] <bch> hello, i am trying to install linux kernel headers (i have 4.16 from backports) and get the following error:
900 [08:10:45] <bch> linux-headers-4.16.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 : Depends: linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86 (>= 4.14.17-1~) but 4.9.88-1+deb9u1
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902 [08:11:17] <somiaj> did you include -t stretch-backports in your install command?
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905 [08:12:22] <bch> no
906 [08:12:49] <bch> thanks, i think that solved my problem!
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908 [08:13:28] <bch> awesome :)
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1024 [09:36:28] <jeo> Hi here. Anyone knows how to get working with Debian Stretch, Xen and UEFI ? I'm following this : replaced-url
1025 [09:36:29] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1035 [09:42:46] <babilen> jeo: So, you install the latest Xen packages and reboot your server and it only shows a single CPU?
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1037 [09:43:52] <jeo> No, I can't even boot to Xen...
1038 [09:44:04] <jeo> Debian works fine, but when I'm rebooting to Xen, the server hangs to "Loading initial ramdisk"
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1040 [09:44:26] <jeo> I'm trying to boot on xen.efi, but I think I'm falling back to grub
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1042 [09:45:04] <babilen> And you're using grub-efi?
1043 [09:45:23] <babilen> What happens if you're simply installing the packages and reboot? Nothing else should be necessary
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1045 [09:45:40] <jeo> @babilen, Yes, i'm using Grub 2
1046 [09:46:05] <jeo> Simply installing xen-hypervisor-4.8-amd64 ?
1047 [09:46:38] <babilen> indeed
1048 [09:46:46] <jeo> Let's try it
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1050 [09:47:14] <babilen> Well .. what did you try before?
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1052 [09:47:35] <jeo> I'm trying on a fresh server ;)
1053 [09:48:00] <babilen> xen-linux-system-amd64 pulls in utils if you don't install recommends
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1056 [09:48:13] <jeo> setup seems to be fine : replaced-url
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1058 [09:48:29] <babilen> Yeah, sure, a fresh server, but what have you tried before if you never tried installing the Xen packages beforehand?
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1061 [09:49:39] <jeo> I did try installing Xen packages. But I did a lot of debug and testing on it
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1068 [09:54:13] <jeo> @babilen, now, server is hanging at "Loading initial ramdisk"
1069 [09:55:19] <jeo> Just after the grub, I choose "Debian with Xen Hypervisor"
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1071 [09:57:01] <babilen> Okay, boot into the old kernel and confirm that you're using grub-efi
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1074 [09:57:32] <babilen> That's not normal behaviour (in case that wasn't clear) and you probably have to dive deeper into your server's hardware and software setup
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1077 [09:59:39] <jeo> @babilen, I'm using Grub 2.0.2~beta3-5
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1081 [10:02:50] <jeo> @babilen, That's what I thought, I tried to switch to legacy bios, but my server have NVME disks, so, EFI mandatory...
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1109 [10:10:49] <babilen> jeo: Could you *please* verify that you're using grub-efi (in that you have that package or a grub-efi-* variant installed). I'd also recommend to take a look at the resulting grub.cfg and verifying that the paths used therein are correct
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1115 [10:14:07] <jeo> @babilen, I did have grub-efi : replaced-url
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1117 [10:15:32] <jeo> @babilen, paths to vmlinux* and initrd* seems to be ok
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1163 [10:36:13] <XsiSec> Hi guys I had a hard crash in debian, I am trying to reset only the necessary start-services for debian do you know where I can find those? (I only want autostart debian own services).
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1174 [10:41:03] <dkeinath> sili habe liste erhalten wenn ich gewicht eintrage kannst du die liste wie gebracueh oder muss alles per hand eingtragen werden ?
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1176 [10:45:10] <jeo> @babilen, replaced-url
1177 [10:45:15] <jeo> OVH hardware <3
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1189 [10:49:33] <babilen> jeo: well done!
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1194 [10:51:13] <locrian9> stwrt: I tried to see if an xorg-fonts-type1 package was installed 'pacman -Q | grep xorg', and I don't see any package with that name.
1195 [10:51:20] <locrian9> I think these are the font paths I have setup (/usr/share/fonts) (~/.local/share/fonts), however /var/log/Xorg.0.log is showing, "(WW) The directory /usr/share/fonts/Type1 does not exist". How is Xorg told to look for this directory?
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1217 [11:02:50] <santaclauze> my computer is telling me my var volume is almost full
1218 [11:03:05] <santaclauze> I checked my machine and apparently my /var/lib is 8gig
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1220 [11:03:13] <santaclauze> any idea why i have this?
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1225 [11:05:40] <Fox> santaclauze: do you habe docker on that machine ?
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1228 [11:07:04] <santaclauze> yes
1229 [11:07:07] <santaclauze> fox, yes
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1231 [11:07:25] <Fox> santaclauze: btrfs ?
1232 [11:08:03] <santaclauze> fox, I do not know what you are talking about there
1233 [11:08:27] <petn-randall> santaclauze: Lenovo X series?
1234 [11:09:11] <santaclauze> petn-randall, T430
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1236 [11:09:38] <babilen> santaclauze: I'd recommend to install ncdu and to take a look what is nomming all that hard disk space. If it is indeed caused by Docker, you might want to look into pruning unneeded resources: replaced-url
1237 [11:10:03] <locrian9> Found that Xorg has the path '/usr/share/fonts/Type1' somewhere in it's configuration as one of the directories as a 'default path'. This is explained in the 'xorg.conf' man page.
1238 [11:10:05] <babilen> (make sure not to delete something you still require)
1239 [11:10:26] <babilen> locrian9: And you don't want that?
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1245 [11:12:20] <petn-randall> santaclauze: It's a common issue, you can delete the files /sys/firmware/efi/efivars/dump-type0-*, and it should go back to normal.
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1249 [11:12:51] <locrian9> babilen: I was just curious why Xorg was giving me warnings (WW) about directories it was looking in for fonts. Now I know that these directories are hard coded in the binary instructions with Xorg. Just was wondering...
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1251 [11:13:14] <babilen> aye
1252 [11:13:15] <petn-randall> santaclauze: Just make sure to not delete anything else, older kernel versions allowed deleting EFI vars that were needed for UEFI to start.
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1254 [11:13:54] <babilen> How do you know its related to that?
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1258 [11:14:15] <babilen> I mean it might very well be, but .. we haven't actually seen any reliable data
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1262 [11:16:00] <petn-randall> Oh wait, totally misread.
1263 [11:16:29] <santaclauze> babilen, ncdu does not show my the volumes on my coimputer. Only root and home
1264 [11:16:36] <petn-randall> santaclauze: When you boot, do you get an error that "efi vars is almost all full. Press F1 to continue"?
1265 [11:16:47] <petn-randall> santaclauze: Or when do you get this message?
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1267 [11:17:28] <santaclauze> petn-randall, i dont think that has changed anything - and NO i do not get that mesdsage a boot. Simply a small notifiation saying my var volume is almost full, and after df -h, it shows my /var at 98% used, 8.1gb of 8.2gb
1268 [11:18:11] <petn-randall> santaclauze: Ok, then I misread what you said, ignore what I said before.
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1270 [11:18:19] * petn-randall starts taking sips on the coffee.
1271 [11:18:56] <santaclauze> petn-randall, k did coffee help? :) any other suggestoin? I think I arleady had a problem like this, and i must admit that fox with the docker question did seem to point out towards something
1272 [11:19:29] <petn-randall> santaclauze: You can find out running 'ncdu' in /var/, as babilen suggested.
1273 [11:20:23] <annadane> haha with the amount of support i do i should invest in coffee myself so i don't give tired non-answers at 6 in the morning
1274 [11:20:34] <annadane> or not spend 15 hours a day on IRC
1275 [11:20:48] <patterson> Life without coffee is not worth living
1276 [11:21:17] <santaclauze> i dont know, i had a sip of coffee with gone-off milk, right at that moment, life wihtout coffee seemed like a good thing
1277 [11:21:18] <patterson> Sortof
1278 [11:21:25] <santaclauze> energy drink instead :)
1279 [11:21:39] <patterson> I can go a couple of weeks without and the angst is managable
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1282 [11:22:38] <p0g0_> patterson: I lived for a year in NZ in the 1970s... it was memorable for many things, but one that stands out was _no_ decent coffee.
1283 [11:22:52] <patterson> But, just like the aroma of frying butter,garlic,onions,celery and black pepper
1284 [11:23:00] <p0g0_> I still feel like I am 1 year shy of my coffee aliquot.
1285 [11:23:11] <santaclauze> petn-randall babilen, so I ran ncdu in the /var/ folder but it shows only 600mb usage
1286 [11:26:36] <patterson> Fresh ground beans and a teapot considering boiling
1287 [11:26:37] <babilen> Did you run "ncdu /var" as root?
1288 [11:26:51] <babilen> patterson: Do you require help?
1289 [11:27:05] <patterson> I should be OK.
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1292 [11:27:25] <babilen> Okay, please take your idle chatter to an -offtopic or chat channel.
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1294 [11:27:34] <patterson> Pardon me
1295 [11:28:22] <babilen> santaclauze: Did you run "ncdu /var" as root?
1296 [11:28:49] <babilen> Also kindly provide us with the output of "df -h" on one of replaced-url
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1299 [11:29:09] <babilen> It might very well be docker nomming all that space if you've been using that for a while
1300 [11:29:33] <babilen> So a "docker $FOO prune" might sort you out (cf. documentation I linked earlier)
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1305 [11:31:31] <jeo> @babilen, now it's booting, but It hangs on this : replaced-url
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1307 [11:31:58] <santaclauze> babilen, yeah is docker, the issue is from the overlay2 apparently, its a known bug
1308 [11:32:09] <santaclauze> ill take it from here, thanks for pointing the rihgt directin
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1310 [11:33:06] <babilen> all the best!
1311 [11:33:13] <babilen> jeo: OVH ftw!
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1313 [11:33:38] <jeo> @babilen, about my previous issue, It was not ovh : replaced-url
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1316 [11:34:07] <Plasmoduck> I want to split my console into different sectons, whats the easiest way to do it? ncurses?
1317 [11:34:41] <annadane> tmux/screen?
1318 [11:34:48] <babilen> jeo: How is that related to your problem and which steps did you take to get it to boot?
1319 [11:34:54] <Plasmoduck> Is so how do I do ittmux
1320 [11:34:56] <Plasmoduck> thats it
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1322 [11:35:12] *** Parts: memod (~root@replaced-ip ) ()
1323 [11:35:13] <annadane> not sure, i don't really use it
1324 [11:35:20] <annadane> i'm sure there's online documentation is available
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1326 [11:35:38] <jeo> @babilen, I just add this to /etc/grub/20_linux_xen : -o "\$grub_platform" = "efi". Now it's booting, but still hangs after
1327 [11:35:38] <annadane> "there's online documentation is available" i clearly need sleep
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1329 [11:36:15] <babilen> jeo: right
1330 [11:36:34] <jeo> @babilen, I didn't change anything in BIOS
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1347 [11:49:56] <choice> On my Debian 9 machine, there is a user 'irc'. I don't think I created it. What does it do?
1348 [11:50:17] *** Joins: Release_ (~Mibbit@replaced-ip )
1349 [11:50:42] <Release_> greetz i keep gettin E: Unable to locate package build-essential
1350 [11:50:49] <Release_> and for other packages as well
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1352 [11:51:24] <Release_> i read it means i dont have main repo in source list ?
1353 [11:51:24] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip )
1354 [11:51:26] <p0g0_> choice: if you created it, it likely does nothing.
1355 [11:51:30] *** Quits: rounnus (~rounnus@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1356 [11:51:39] <choice> p0g0_: I don't think I created it.
1357 [11:51:55] <Iridos> Release_, yes, that's what I would have said… so what is your question ^^
1358 [11:52:02] <petn-randall> choice: It's a system user.
1359 [11:52:13] <choice> petn-randall: What is a system user?
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1361 [11:52:26] <Release_> since im no veteran how would that be fixed properly would be my next quest
1362 [11:52:59] <petn-randall> choice: replaced-url
1363 [11:53:12] <petn-randall> !bat
1364 [11:53:12] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1365 [11:53:23] <petn-randall> Release_: Can you provide *all* of the above info in a single paste? ^^^
1366 [11:53:30] <choice> petn-randall: "irc: Used by irc daemons.". I don't run an irc demon.
1367 [11:53:43] <petn-randall> choice: Sure, that's why it does nothing.
1368 [11:53:50] <choice> petn-randall: Why was it created?
1369 [11:54:01] *** Joins: memod (~root@replaced-ip )
1370 [11:54:24] <petn-randall> choice: There are a bunch of users/groups that get created. The link has such a list.
1371 [11:54:25] <Release_> hm hold on seems its working now petn-randall
1372 [11:54:33] <choice> petn-randall: Yes, but *why*?
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1374 [11:54:47] <p0g0_> choice: they are created because they are commonly needed
1375 [11:54:54] <petn-randall> choice: Because back in the day it was important that system users had the same numeric id across all systems.
1376 [11:54:57] <p0g0_> and not using them has no costs...
1377 [11:55:03] <choice> petn-randall: I see.
1378 [11:55:37] <choice> petn-randall: But if that is not the case anymore, why do they still get created?
1379 [11:55:41] <petn-randall> choice: And that's why there were created upon installation, so there was no mixup. There's also a list somewher on debian.org of all system users and their corresponding user id, but I haven't found it yet.
1380 [11:55:52] <petn-randall> choice: backwards compatibility.
1381 [11:56:09] <choice> petn-randall: So it *is* still needed.
1382 [11:56:21] <petn-randall> choice: And probably because nobody did the work to migrate it to the newer, "dynamically create users when there's demand" setup.
1383 [11:56:43] <petn-randall> choice: Probably not, but you'd have to install a ircd to check it. :)
1384 [11:57:12] <choice> Someone should write a script that lists all users of a system with the info if they are legacy system users.
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1386 [11:57:26] <choice> So one can see which users of a system were created manually.
1387 [11:57:39] <Iridos> it still makes (can make) things simpler if you can rely on multiple machines on the same uid for the same users… specially if you use nfs or so
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1391 [12:00:18] <petn-randall> choice: I know someone who could do that ...
1392 [12:00:21] *** Joins: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip )
1393 [12:00:24] *** Joins: Something1 (~Something@replaced-ip )
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1395 [12:00:40] <choice> Richard Stallmann!
1396 [12:00:45] *** Joins: shahri (~shahri@replaced-ip )
1397 [12:00:51] <Linpassion> hi! Is there same xlunch users?
1398 [12:01:32] <annadane> om nom nom nom nom
1399 [12:01:34] <Something1> Has anyone successfully installed Debian to a USB key as a regular install? GRUB couldn´t boot from it.
1400 [12:02:37] <choice> Something1: Some years ago I did that and it worked.
1401 [12:02:40] * petn-randall looks at choice.
1402 [12:03:05] <petn-randall> Something1: Should be possible, though it won't be really fast, unless you got a great USB stick.
1403 [12:03:17] <choice> petn-randall: I'm not Richard Stallman! I swear!
1404 [12:03:53] <petn-randall> That's what someone being Richard Stallman would say!
1405 [12:03:55] <Something1> I currently have it working fine with an Arch installation but have no need for a rolling release. The speed is not an issue as it´s not using xorg or anything.
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1408 [12:04:20] <choice> petn-randall: I knew you would think that. So if I was RS, I would not have said that for sure!
1409 [12:05:03] <petn-randall> Richard Stallman trying to avoid fixing bugs in Debian again! Shoo! Shoo!
1410 [12:05:15] <choice> Strange, umatrix says stallman.org tries to set cookies from google.com
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1413 [12:06:45] <Plasmoduck> SO I';; encryped a hdd and forgotten the passowrd, what are my options to format it>
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1416 [12:07:24] <Plasmoduck> Or is it just a paperweight now?
1417 [12:08:09] <Something1> Complete wipe? Just `dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sd[numberofdrive] bs=512 count=1` or something
1418 [12:08:52] <Plasmoduck> ?
1419 [12:09:03] <Plasmoduck> So I have to plug it in?
1420 [12:09:20] <Something1> You will have to plug in the drive to wipe it yes
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1423 [12:10:10] <Something1> The Debian installer can also remove the partition(s), or if you have an existing installation with a GUI, then gnome-disks or gparted can do it graphically
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1427 [12:11:19] <petn-randall> Plasmoduck: Do you have backups of the data?
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1431 [12:11:52] <Plasmoduck> well Im trying to boot a usb stick and it goes stright to asking for the encrytopn key
1432 [12:12:04] <Plasmoduck> theres nothing on it
1433 [12:12:08] <Plasmoduck> it was just a test
1434 [12:12:31] <petn-randall> Plasmoduck: If you don't care about the data, you can just wipe it.
1435 [12:12:34] <Something1> Choose the USB while booting? Press F12 or F11 or something
1436 [12:13:04] <Plasmoduck> thats what U tried and ignore med
1437 [12:13:20] <Plasmoduck> and went straight to the drive and asked for encrypton password
1438 [12:13:35] <Something1> Are you sure the USB is bootable?
1439 [12:14:18] <petn-randall> I'd assume that if it asks for a the encryption password that it booted fine.
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1441 [12:14:38] <Plasmoduck> yep, ill check again
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1457 [12:25:26] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
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1461 [12:27:33] <ychaouche> What is your algorithme to getting help for a specific software that doesn't work as expected ?
1462 [12:27:48] <annadane> ask us?
1463 [12:27:55] <annadane> what software, what isn't working?
1464 [12:28:41] <ychaouche> mine is seek support in the dedicated IRC channel, if no answere repeat the day after, if no answere ask on the ML, if no answere I don't know what to do.
1465 [12:30:05] <BanHammor> do you have an actual problem you'd like someone to help with, ychaouche?
1466 [12:30:17] <ychaouche> well yes, but it's relative to monit
1467 [12:30:25] <petn-randall> ychaouche: If you don't get an answer that usually means that the problem isn't really described well. Or it's sooo hardcore specific and deep into some topic that no one else understands. But usually the former.
1468 [12:30:32] <erte> ychaouche, maybe you should look through the list of nicks
1469 [12:30:47] <ychaouche> My problem is described here : replaced-url
1470 [12:30:50] <plumber> believe in yourself
1471 [12:30:53] <ychaouche> :p
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1474 [12:31:11] <erte> you might find someone that could help, i dont know eithér
1475 [12:31:27] <plumber> you must believe in yourself
1476 [12:32:11] <erte> what if im awake for about 24 hours already
1477 [12:32:30] <annadane> stay up LONGER! :)
1478 [12:32:55] <plumber> coffee, music, etc...
1479 [12:33:12] <petn-randall> ychaouche: What does the receiving mail server have in the logs? That's the interesting part.
1480 [12:33:42] <ychaouche> petn-randall: I'll try and see. Now that you mention it it could be a TLS problem, maybe.
1481 [12:34:19] <ychaouche> because the e-mails are delivered just fine, but maybe the client tries TLS first, then it tries to send it unencrypted.
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1483 [12:36:22] <ychaouche> Here's one conversation : replaced-url
1484 [12:36:27] *** Joins: Tech_Network_500 (18333aac@replaced-ip )
1485 [12:36:49] <Tech_Network_500> hi
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1489 [12:38:10] <petn-randall> ychaouche: Seems like that is your issue. I don't know how your sendmail setup is, so that might be the issue.
1490 [12:38:41] <ychaouche> petn-randall: what is the issue ?
1491 [12:39:19] *** Parts: Release_ (~Mibbit@replaced-ip ) ()
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1497 [12:41:36] <ychaouche> There doesn't seem to be a TLS connection that is started
1498 [12:41:41] <ychaouche> Here's another conversation: replaced-url
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1501 [12:42:36] *** root is now known as Guest49531
1502 [12:42:37] <ychaouche> I thought of something else, maybe there's a specific configuration in monit for SMTP timeout ? maybe it should wait longer ?
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1506 [12:44:23] <petn-randall> ychaouche: The issue is between sendmail on your monit server, and the MTA where it gets sent to.
1507 [12:44:47] <petn-randall> ychaouche: Unfortunately I don't have time right now to dig into it, but maybe someone else can help, or you can debug it yourself.
1508 [12:45:04] <ychaouche> petn-randall: thanks for putting me on tracks
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1510 [12:46:42] <annadane> and basically the answer to "i don't get an answer" is basically to keep trying, yeah
1511 [12:46:47] <annadane> i'd answer you if i had any idea
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1523 [12:56:30] <petn-randall> ychaouche: You could also ask in #postfix, but they can be a bit unfriendly if you don't do your own thorough research before asking.
1524 [12:56:38] <Tech_Network_500> hi
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1526 [12:57:23] <ychaouche> petn-randall: I've been there a few times, rob0 is friendly ^^
1527 [12:57:51] <ychaouche> I saw him on youtube once, he seems like a nice guy
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1529 [13:01:27] <abrotman> ychaouche: turn off TLS, and do a tcpdump
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1546 [13:11:29] <ychaouche> From : replaced-url
1547 [13:11:30] <ychaouche> Resource temporarily unavailable'.
1548 [13:12:25] <ychaouche> I added a timeout and will wait for the next alert and see if that fixes it.
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1556 [13:17:36] <FinalX> ,v lxc
1557 [13:17:37] <judd> Package: lxc on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.8.0~rc1-8+deb7u2; wheezy-backports: 1:1.0.6-6+deb8u2~bpo70+1; jessie-security: 1:1.0.6-6+deb8u2; jessie: 1:1.0.6-6+deb8u6; jessie-backports: 1:2.0.7-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 1:2.0.7-2+deb9u2; buster: 1:2.0.9-6; sid: 1:2.0.9-6
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1578 [13:32:54] <jeo> Do anyone know how to fix my issue with Debian & Xen ? On boot : Disc information : found 0 mbdr, found 0 edd
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1597 [13:45:30] <kemisten> hi
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1599 [13:50:31] <TvL2386> hi
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1611 [13:59:15] <jelly> what's the simplest way to test for existence of a terminfo entry? I'm logging in to systems with a couple different debian releases, and not all have xterm-256color or screen.xterm-256color
1612 [14:01:29] <annadane> kemisten, TvL2386, hi
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1615 [14:03:04] <moldy> hi
1616 [14:03:12] <annadane> hi moldy
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1620 [14:03:47] <moldy> i installed a new font manually (replaced-url
1621 [14:04:33] <moldy> fc-list shows > 700 fonts, but in Konsole i only see 15 or such
1622 [14:05:33] <Fox> jelly: did you try infocmp ?
1623 [14:06:35] <jelly> Fox: no, thanks!
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1625 [14:06:45] <jelly> it does return a sensible exit status
1626 [14:06:45] <Fox> jelly: yaw
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1632 [14:07:14] <jelly> infocmp -q screen.xterm-256color >/dev/null && echo yay || echo nay
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1636 [14:11:45] <psichas> hi guys, dircolors doesn't work, i dont get why
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1640 [14:14:13] <annadane> i'm not familiar with "dircolors"
1641 [14:14:38] <annadane> also, you'll need more specifics than "it doesn't work"
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1643 [14:16:01] <RoyK> psichas: it's not enabled by default - try 'ls --color=auto'
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1646 [14:17:08] <psichas> RoyK, thats aweome dircolors alive ty ;)
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1658 [14:23:58] <TrickkyTyper> /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER TrickkyTyper kxkrzlvylypp
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1665 [14:25:33] <babilen> TrickkyTyper: You *always* want to do things like this in in /query and I would recommend to change that password everywhere you (might) have re-used it
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1668 [14:26:45] <babilen> The syntax is also "REGISTER <password> <email-address>", which makes this "REGISTER $YOUR_PASSWORD TrickkyTyper@example.com" (adapt to actual values)
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1674 [14:30:00] <TrickkyTyper> roger ;) i know it wasj ust to verify email
1675 [14:30:02] <TrickkyTyper> its not my passwrod
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1680 [14:32:51] <msl09> guys how do I find bugs submitted related to the kde suite and with browser in the name
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1698 [14:47:10] <TrickkyTyper> msl09, explain?
1699 [14:47:24] <TrickkyTyper> i am not an expert but my guess is log folders.
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1709 [14:51:36] <msl09> nevermind I found a google group where
1710 [14:51:42] <msl09> I searched for it
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1716 [14:55:02] <borkd> explain this: watching a movie using firefox, it appears to be caching to /tmp, i have it mounted to a tmpfs, df command shows it is writing to it but the folder has no related files
1717 [14:55:37] <monty86> what's the best desktop environment in debian in terms of application support, performance, stability, and functioinality?
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1720 [14:56:00] <monty86> I used gnome 2 back in 2011 and it had everything I needed (functionality, speed etc)
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1724 [14:57:52] <petn-randall> borkd: I guess firefox is doing it right and only using file descriptors to access the data. That a good thing and the only safe way, even though it seems confusing to you.
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1728 [14:58:48] <petn-randall> borkd: It means that it opens a file descriptor to the file, and deletes it, and then just works on that file descriptor to read/write to that file. That way nobody a hypothetical attacker can't access/manipulate that file.
1729 [14:59:49] <msl09> monty86, I moved from xfce to kde last week because of the many unfixed bugs and I'm really liking it so far
1730 [15:00:08] <borkd> petn-randall: ah that is new and interesting to me, thanks for the info (off to research this, cheers)
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1741 [15:01:35] <msl09> I can't tell how it fares in term of performance since I haven't used it on an old computer but it's pretty robust
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1747 [15:03:30] <borkd> ive used kde on a 2006 machine and it was smoother than gnome, i now use xfce and compton (main reason for kde was xfwm screen tearing)
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1751 [15:04:20] <borkd> thanks again, g2g
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1753 [15:05:22] <monty86> when you update debian stable, is it aptitude update?
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1755 [15:05:34] <monty86> i used to do some weird stuff like aptitude update --no-recommends
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1758 [15:05:55] <monty86> but that was when I tried to sequeeze the last bit of performance and be minimalist....not sure if I have the time for that anymore
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1760 [15:05:59] <jelly> update doesn't do anything but reread repo states, monty86
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1764 [15:06:28] <monty86> sorry, it was aptitude something to updat the system...i forget
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1767 [15:06:44] <monty86> thinking of switching from opensuse to debian
1768 [15:06:46] <jelly> if you want to patch up your system, it will be something like aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
1769 [15:06:55] <monty86> oh yeah that's it
1770 [15:07:06] <monty86> is there a point in doing --no-recomends any more?
1771 [15:07:12] <jelly> it depends
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1791 [15:18:10] <MarioMey> Hello, there. Yesterday I installed lm-sensors and configured it. Also, I installed mate-sensors-applet and mate-sensors-applet-nvidia. Now, I have as an applet in systray (Debian 9 Mate).
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1793 [15:18:31] <MarioMey> nVidia sensor is correct (30ºC), but CPU says 0º.
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1798 [15:19:55] <monty86> is there ever a case when a non working package is added to debian stable?
1799 [15:20:15] <monty86> in opensuse, flamerobin, a non working package was added.....and I'm getting an awful hard time getting the maintainers to fix it
1800 [15:20:27] <annadane> it's... pretty rare
1801 [15:20:47] <MarioMey> Sometimes, 2º... and then, 0º.
1802 [15:20:54] <monty86> when it does happen, how was is it to get it fixed (i'm a programmer but no clue with c programming)
1803 [15:21:01] <annadane> for various definitions of non working package, it's different depending on the situation
1804 [15:21:07] <annadane> well, you'd file a bug report
1805 [15:21:29] <monty86> i remember I had to do this once...and within a couple of weeks it got fixed back in 2011
1806 [15:21:47] <monty86> opensuse, I filed the bug 2017 and have been tried to get it fixed by contacting maintainers, support etc
1807 [15:21:57] <annadane> debian stable is not the panacea it's represented as but is of generally high quality
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1809 [15:22:44] <monty86> what's the point in checking in a package that doesn't even run
1810 [15:23:02] <annadane> idk. not familiar with opensuse
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1813 [15:24:05] <annadane> also opensuse is a rolling distro hence newer, more buggy packages
1814 [15:24:21] <monty86> it doesn't run on leap or tumbleweed (rolling)
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1818 [15:25:27] <monty86> the fact that this bug was reported in 2017...it's more than a year
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1820 [15:25:36] <monty86> i've contacted multiple people, it's a simple fix
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1824 [15:27:07] <annadane> wait are you talking about debian now or suse
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1827 [15:27:51] <OlofL> is there any risk in letting a user have no password defined in /etc/shadow ? i can't login with that particular user
1828 [15:28:12] <jelly> monty86: if a package has a Priority: grave bug (and not working in default setup is that), then it can't enter a debian release
1829 [15:28:51] <jelly> so it's possible to have a piece of completely non-working software in debian stable, if noone cares to file a bug report
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1831 [15:29:00] <monty86> suse
1832 [15:29:33] <monty86> oh ok
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1834 [15:29:51] <monty86> so if I do file a bug report, how long does it take to fix it?
1835 [15:29:58] <monty86> like will get the ball rolling at least?
1836 [15:30:02] <jelly> it depends
1837 [15:30:05] <monty86> cause on suse, nothing happened
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1840 [15:30:33] <jelly> if you file it now and if it's not fixed, it won't be present in Debian 10, simple as that
1841 [15:30:50] <monty86> ah
1842 [15:31:23] <elge> I am running Devuan/beowul which plugs into buster, and there is an issue with package base-files: /etc/os-release does not contain any VERSION_ID
1843 [15:31:29] <jelly> !devuan
1844 [15:31:29] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
1845 [15:31:35] <elge> I guess I can add it manually, would it be Debian v10 ?
1846 [15:31:50] <elge> jelly, yeah this is a debian issue
1847 [15:32:00] <jelly> elge: no, it's not
1848 [15:32:12] <jelly> what fails in Debian because of that?
1849 [15:32:14] <elge> freedesktop specification wants VERSION_ID
1850 [15:32:21] <elge> there is none
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1857 [15:34:41] <jelly> elge: that gets fixed late in the release process
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1860 [15:35:39] <jelly> elge: so I guess if you're using a downstream distro and they're basing off a testing or unstable snapshot, they will have to fix it themselves
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1862 [15:36:12] <jelly> of if they plan to release parallel to buster, it will get fixed eventually
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1867 [15:37:13] <jelly> elge: however a downstream distro will probably want to use their own release and their own version anyway
1868 [15:38:21] <elge> right
1869 [15:38:40] <elge> thanks
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1876 [15:41:19] <jelly> (discussed a bit further in #devuan)
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1879 [15:42:27] <TrickkyTyper> Hey guys
1880 [15:42:35] <TrickkyTyper> what client or application would i use like magic jack to make phonecalls from my linux computer
1881 [15:42:44] <TrickkyTyper> would it be Ring with my SIP Gateway credentials?
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1887 [15:44:41] <monty86> does gnome 3 have a taskbar?
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1890 [15:45:47] <annadane> no bar has enough alcohol to drown out the sorrow of gnome
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1892 [15:45:53] <annadane> (sorry. i don't know.)
1893 [15:46:10] <annadane> it probably does, via extensions
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1897 [15:47:17] <Kelsar> from 1 to 10, where 1 is ok and 10 very bad, how bad is it to upgrade from wheezy to stretch?
1898 [15:47:21] <monty86> extensions for a taskbar....what a joke
1899 [15:47:45] <annadane> 10
1900 [15:47:49] <annadane> go through jessie first
1901 [15:48:48] <jelly> Kelsar: depends on how many times you've done a release upgrade up to now, and esp. the wheezy->jessie one (jessie->stretch is probably a bit nicer)
1902 [15:48:57] <Kelsar> i thought so and how bad is the whole process. usually i would prefer to setup the machine clean... but gitlab backups are stupid version dependent...
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1905 [15:49:07] <jelly> Kelsar: there is no skipping releases
1906 [15:49:24] <lostfile> well its better then using github
1907 [15:49:39] <jelly> Kelsar: so go ahead and read: /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie
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1909 [15:49:41] <lostfile> meh i actully like git hub
1910 [15:50:03] <Kelsar> i don't watn to migrate aroun 450 projects by hand...
1911 [15:50:11] <blackflow> monty86: just because it's a different GUI paradigm than the myriad copies of Windows 3.11, it's a "joke"?
1912 [15:50:44] <jelly> Kelsar: it's about 2 hours work for the OS, no idea how much time for your application(s)
1913 [15:51:16] <jelly> Kelsar: and then when it's done, read /msg dpkg jessie->stretch
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1918 [15:51:54] <jelly> blackflow: no, it's a joke because it consistently cripples the UI from one release to the next
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1920 [15:52:13] <lostfile> you making some thing like windows 3.11
1921 [15:52:23] <annadane> to be fair KDE has also been guilty of that
1922 [15:52:29] <annadane> not to the same extent
1923 [15:52:41] <jelly> blackflow: it's a joke because it pretends removing choice is good, and worse, it pretends there's a consistent goal in mind
1924 [15:52:52] <blackflow> jelly: well then say so! :)
1925 [15:53:01] <blackflow> but lack of taskbar ain't it.
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1930 [15:54:23] <jelly> noone said "lack of taskbar"
1931 [15:54:53] <annadane> you just did. (:
1932 [15:54:55] <lostfile> i like having a task bar
1933 [15:55:00] * annadane hides
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1936 [15:55:37] <lostfile> im a fan of the cinomon desktop
1937 [15:55:44] <lostfile> and mate
1938 [15:56:26] <annadane> cinnamon got on my nerves
1939 [15:56:42] <annadane> it's fine, i guess, i didn't spend much time on it
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1942 [15:57:51] <Kelsar> atleast it is a VM i can take snapshots from and start again, if needed
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1948 [16:00:35] <lostfile> annadane: well its better then KDE there file manager that comes with it drives me crazy
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1950 [16:00:55] <lostfile> i hate dolfin
1951 [16:00:57] <monty86> dolphin??? it's one of the best
1952 [16:01:10] <lostfile> i dont care for it
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1954 [16:01:35] <monty86> having used nautilus, thunar, and a couple of others, it the best
1955 [16:01:41] <monty86> fast and functional
1956 [16:01:45] <lostfile> thats just my opinon tho
1957 [16:01:51] <annadane> !start an editor war
1958 [16:01:51] <dpkg> ae users need to get a life!
1959 [16:02:02] <blackflow> annadane: there's no war, everyone knows vim won.
1960 [16:02:21] <lostfile> i prefer nautilus
1961 [16:02:21] <monty86> gedit is much better than vim
1962 [16:02:31] <lostfile> i like nano
1963 [16:02:44] <lostfile> but at the same time
1964 [16:03:05] <lostfile> depending on what im doing
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1966 [16:03:09] <lostfile> i like vim
1967 [16:03:36] * RoyK hates nano, but likes vim for most things
1968 [16:03:50] <lostfile> if its a small conf file i use nano
1969 [16:03:57] <RoyK> replaced-url
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1971 [16:04:20] <lostfile> if its a big one with a lot of lines i use vim
1972 [16:04:34] <blackflow> that makes zero sense.
1973 [16:04:44] <RoyK> or even… replaced-url
1974 [16:04:53] <jelly> NO XKCD\
1975 [16:04:56] <blackflow> if you went through the learning curve of vim and are used to it, wth nano. *jackie_chan_meme.jpg*
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1977 [16:05:23] <lostfile> lol
1978 [16:05:24] <dgp> jelly: hows I pretend I smart without xkcd?
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1983 [16:05:57] <lostfile> nano is easyer to use
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1986 [16:06:17] <lostfile> i can just save some thing with crl o
1987 [16:06:33] <RoyK> lostfile: once you've learned vim, you won't go back :)
1988 [16:06:43] <blackflow> then you didn't go through the learning curve of vim and have no muscle memory built for its commands. which is okay per se.
1989 [16:06:46] <blackflow> RoyK++
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1993 [16:07:45] <annadane> honorable mention to neovim?
1994 [16:07:56] <annadane> spacemacs?
1995 [16:07:57] <monty86> ix xfce maintained in debian?
1996 [16:08:01] <annadane> yes
1997 [16:08:04] <RoyK> how does neovim compare to vim?
1998 [16:08:09] <monty86> i heard rumors it was on it's way out
1999 [16:08:17] <annadane> i don't know the full differences really
2000 [16:08:17] * dgp wonders what impressive things people that argue about editors are editing all day
2001 [16:08:24] <jelly> monty86: who did you hear the rumors from
2002 [16:08:30] <blackflow> rumors shroomors.
2003 [16:08:35] <monty86> that it wasn't updated for awhile and will not be included
2004 [16:08:40] <monty86> awhile back....maybe in 2014
2005 [16:08:44] <jelly> monty86: reference please
2006 [16:08:50] <blackflow> dgp: over nine thousand lines of code, for example ;)
2007 [16:08:55] <annadane> well, it may not be updated for a while, xfce is relatively unchanging
2008 [16:09:06] <monty86> maybe it's a diff DE
2009 [16:09:09] <jelly> monty86: oh, 2014. There were two releases _with_ xfce since
2010 [16:09:16] <annadane> dgp, composing essays on how much emacs sucks
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2012 [16:09:35] <dgp> blackflow: I have more than that in an Android project edited with the awful editor in Android Studio..
2013 [16:09:36] * RoyK beleives editor wars are quite offtopic
2014 [16:10:15] <blackflow> RoyK: but tehy're ((debian text editor) wars)
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2020 [16:12:26] <dgp> If you're editing debian fan fiction then it's on topic
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2022 [16:12:42] <armin> hi. when running a dist-upgrade, apt tells me that there have been modifications to some files in /etc. i select the default action there (N = keep your currently-installed version) and assume to get some .dpkg-new files in there, but i don't. any hint?
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2028 [16:14:10] <monty86> i'm going to install debian....trying to decide which DE
2029 [16:14:13] <monty86> any advise?
2030 [16:14:23] <monty86> i'm a simplistic and I prefer functionality
2031 [16:14:35] <armin> xfce then probably
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2033 [16:14:45] <monty86> a lot of my work is coding, I need a taskbar to switch apps fast
2034 [16:15:07] <dgp> monty86: try the big ones like gnome and kde first, if they feel like too much try one of the smaller ones
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2036 [16:15:35] <armin> i'd do the other way around. start minimal and work your way up.
2037 [16:15:36] <monty86> i'm already on KDE plasma on suse, works great (a little bloated...who cares about KDE connect for phones etc)
2038 [16:16:04] <monty86> gnome is a no no....i cannot install a DE that needs an extension for taskbar
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2040 [16:16:12] <dgp> monty86: I use kde but I only have the base packages installed and most of the fancy stuff turned off
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2042 [16:16:43] <annadane> you may look into i3wm, it's keyboard focused and allows you to switch windows quickly
2043 [16:16:51] <annadane> also simple and minimal
2044 [16:17:20] <armin> annadane: now that's something completely different to some classical DE with a taskbar.
2045 [16:17:35] <armin> i use it right now and it's seriously great, but hardly meets the requirements of OP.
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2047 [16:17:48] <monty86> what about LXDE? isn't it the fastest DE?
2048 [16:18:07] <armin> LXDE is basically openbox with an additional taskbar and some other goodies.
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2050 [16:18:08] <dgp> monty86: Is the cpu in your machine a potato?
2051 [16:18:16] <monty86> no i7
2052 [16:18:22] <armin> dgp: does having a fast CPU justify bloat?
2053 [16:18:24] <monty86> one i7 machine, one i3 machine
2054 [16:18:34] <monty86> kde plasma runs great on both
2055 [16:18:43] <dgp> armin: if your cpu is fast enough you aren't going to notice the difference
2056 [16:19:02] <monty86> will debian KDE plasma be similar to suse KDE plasma?
2057 [16:19:04] <dgp> If I cared about "bloat" I wouldn't have 40+ tabs open in chrome
2058 [16:19:10] <dgp> monty86: yes
2059 [16:19:26] <monty86> since Debian's default distro is GNOME......will most apps (styling and fonts) work if I install kDE plasma?
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2061 [16:19:52] <armin> dgp: my CPU is fast enough to NOT let me buy a new computer since over 10 years now and i'm a systems engineer and music producer and do all the work with an old computer. even KDE would run perfectly and i see no reason to use it because it gives me no additional functionality.
2062 [16:19:54] <monty86> i guess kate will be installed instead of gedit
2063 [16:20:29] <dgp> monty86: for me gnome apps look like gnome apps. There is a theme to make gnome apps look like kde apps I think but it doesn't bother me enough
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2065 [16:20:42] <dgp> armin: Why did I need to know that?
2066 [16:20:50] <monty86> armin what DE do you use?
2067 [16:21:23] <jelly> monty86: will apps work? try it and see
2068 [16:21:25] <armin> dgp: why does someone need to know how to integrate GTK applications in KDE when they're asking for a *lightweight* desktop environment that focuses on productivity and has a taskbar?
2069 [16:21:43] <armin> dgp: why do you even suggest GNOME when they explicitly ask for something with a taskbar?
2070 [16:21:55] <armin> monty86: depends.
2071 [16:22:05] <dgp> armin: monty86 didn't write lightweight
2072 [16:22:14] <armin> monty86: i3, fluxbox, openbox, xfce, kde, icewm, bspwm, stuff like that.
2073 [16:22:16] <annadane> this is like the 6th "what desktop should i use" conversation i've had today
2074 [16:22:20] <dgp> armin: and what is lightweight when most machines have 4gb+ of ram now
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2076 [16:22:59] <armin> dgp: i still fail to see how that justifies bloat, but whatever floats your boat i guess.
2077 [16:23:11] <armin> dgp: i have 16 in my computer at home.
2078 [16:23:25] <dgp> I have about 30+ in this room
2079 [16:23:26] <armin> dgp: and it does run i3 because i just don't need anything more.
2080 [16:23:47] <dgp> armin: that's great. Not sure why I need to know that
2081 [16:23:51] <annadane> whatever floats your bloat
2082 [16:24:04] <armin> while we're at it, this machine has an 8 core cpu, 32gb and 42" display. and yes it runs i3.
2083 [16:25:02] <dgp> Do you get a free tshirt when you install i3?
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2085 [16:25:18] <FinalX> dgp: that a machine has 4GB+, doesn't mean shit should all start taking as much as they want (hi Chrome)
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2087 [16:25:52] <FinalX> there's also a lot of other good things to use RAM for than a DE :p
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2089 [16:26:20] <dgp> FinalX: Were're probably talking maybe 100MB difference right?
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2091 [16:26:28] <dgp> s/Were're/We're/
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2096 [16:27:25] <FinalX> probably, but does having a lot of RAM excuse behaviour of bloated apps? :p
2097 [16:27:39] <FinalX> (DE or otherwise)
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2100 [16:27:54] <armin> FinalX: that was just the thing i asked dgp.
2101 [16:28:08] <armin> what i got in reply was some questionable attitude.
2102 [16:28:10] <dgp> FinalX: what are you basing "bloated" on
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2105 [16:28:45] <dgp> 11544 daniel 20 0 10.5g 6.0g 29212 S 1.3 19.1 342:48.95 java
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2107 [16:28:54] <dgp> I think really KDE might be the least of my issues
2108 [16:29:09] <armin> oh. my. god.
2109 [16:29:13] <armin> m(
2110 [16:29:14] <FinalX> java :) my firefox is taking almost 3GB as well.
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2113 [16:30:13] <FinalX> point is, he's asking for "the fastest", yet somehow we're talking about bloat and ram usage :P and "you won't notice the difference", while his actual question isn't answered
2114 [16:31:28] <dgp> I'm not seeing where he said that in the original question. He said "simplistic but functional" from what I can gather
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2119 [16:36:50] <monty86> was watching a youtube video on debian xfce, and the guy said by the time debian stable is released, the included versions of KDE/Gnome/Cinamon is already obsolete
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2122 [16:37:42] <dgp> monty86: stable is always going to be behind on the latest desktops etc
2123 [16:38:04] <monty86> oh ok
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2128 [16:39:35] <monty86> ahh midori is the default browser
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2135 [16:43:28] <dgp> monty86: if you select only the base system when you install you'll have almost nothing and you can select the things you want
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2155 [16:57:01] <monty86> anyone use midori?
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2157 [16:58:19] <jelly> monty86: only firefox-esr and chromium have any kind of regular security support in debian. You can use stuff like midori. but on internal safe pages only
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2159 [16:58:53] <monty86> wow
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2161 [16:59:15] <monty86> i wonder how many new people have installed that without realizing it
2162 [16:59:20] <aci> like on every other operating system
2163 [16:59:38] <shtrb> monty86, there are some less the used apps pre installed , it's common
2164 [17:00:14] <jelly> monty86: hopefully none, because debian-security-support warns you when you have stuff with limited support installed.
2165 [17:00:32] <jelly> ,i debian-security-support
2166 [17:00:33] <judd> Package debian-security-support (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: Debian security support coverage checker. Version: 2017.06.02; Size: 25.2k; Installed: 135k
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2169 [17:01:48] <shtrb> ,v midori
2170 [17:01:49] <judd> Package: midori on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.4.3+dfsg-0.1; jessie-backports: 0.5.11-ds1-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.5.11-ds1-4+b1
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2172 [17:02:31] <jelly> ,bug rm midori
2173 [17:02:34] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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2175 [17:02:47] <shtrb> what is the rm flag ?
2176 [17:02:56] <jelly> removal bugs
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2181 [17:08:30] <shtrb> anyone with firefox-esr can say if the text in the images at replaced-url
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2184 [17:09:08] <annadane> oh god forbes. >:(
2185 [17:09:40] <shtrb> FF can't handle forbes ?
2186 [17:09:50] <FinalX> shtrb: It's just someone that took a photo from a big distance. It's blurry.
2187 [17:10:12] <shtrb> lol , thanks
2188 [17:10:21] <shtrb> I thought my screen is crazy or an FF bug
2189 [17:10:22] <annadane> i'm sure it can handle it, it's just an affront to decency on the internet...
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2208 [17:21:56] <msl09_> I checked it once and all of the kde fluff occupied between 600MB and 1GB of ram on my computer
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2211 [17:22:20] <tacobat> rip midori, was a nice browser
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2216 [17:24:03] <rdz> hey all. what will be the PHP version in Debian 10?
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2219 [17:24:46] <shtrb> 7 ?
2220 [17:25:09] <shtrb> ,v php
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2222 [17:25:10] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+61; sid: 1:7.2+61
2223 [17:25:28] <shtrb> so 7.2 it is
2224 [17:25:39] <rdz> shtrb, thanks...
2225 [17:25:57] <FinalX> for now, anyway
2226 [17:25:59] <shtrb> It is just a guess
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2229 [17:26:28] <FinalX> buster isn't frozen and 7.3 alpha is out
2230 [17:26:58] <rdz> so chances are that even a higher version will be the default?
2231 [17:27:02] <shtrb> wait for CVEs to arrive, someone , somewhere will find a bug and we will have an upgrade
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2233 [17:27:37] <FinalX> rdz: it's likely that it'll be 7.3; and if 8.0 is out by then, who knows.
2234 [17:27:42] <rdz> my question is: will 7.0 be available as well? or upgrading debian means upgrading php?
2235 [17:27:45] <shtrb> 7.2 LTS is 2020 so it has good chance to be supported in 10
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2238 [17:28:09] <FinalX> Debian doesn't exactly have a history of having multiple versions of software in one release. Ubuntu does, though.
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2240 [17:28:27] <rdz> FinalX, thanks
2241 [17:28:43] <shtrb> rdz, judging by the state of apps manged by composer there is a good chance you will be in a bad state if you relay on packages (non debian) and default php version
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2244 [17:29:14] <msl09_> This page is gold replaced-url
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2246 [17:29:22] <shtrb> FinalX, you had php5 and php7 for some time
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2248 [17:30:15] <FinalX> Here we came to the consensus that either 1) You have to conform to the Debian default and you get PHP-upgrade with every big Debian upgrade (meaning that things like frameworks might complain about PHP being too old). or 2) Always use the latest version of PHP, no exceptions (and then you continously have to update your code).
2249 [17:30:24] <FinalX> shtrb: Not together, no
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2251 [17:30:50] <FinalX> shtrb: If you had 7.0, it was from an external source (Dotdeb or Sury, for example)
2252 [17:31:48] <shtrb> I stand corrected
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2256 [17:32:40] <shtrb> ,v php5-cgi
2257 [17:32:41] <judd> Package: php5-cgi on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.4.45-0+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 5.4.45-0+deb7u14; jessie: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1
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2263 [17:33:42] <FinalX> We were using Dotdeb's 7.0 for a while on jessie; but that proved unreliable and caused outages on production systems. We later switched to Sury's repositories and those we still use. He's the maintainer for Debian and Ubuntu as well, but runs his own repository, too.
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2267 [17:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1649
2268 [17:34:05] <FinalX> But he also releases unreliably for everything that's not either Debian/Ubuntu LTS _or_ the *highest* version in his repo.
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2270 [17:34:31] <shtrb> maybe I mixed some stuff, I was sure there was an option for that, all is possible , I was wrong
2271 [17:34:56] <FinalX> Like, when there was a vulnerability, it was quickly fixed in the Debian/Ubuntu stock repo packages, and he immediately packaged the latest release for 7.2.. but for 7.1 it took weeks.
2272 [17:35:05] <annadane> if you neeeed another php, use a vm
2273 [17:35:18] <FinalX> vm's have their own implications
2274 [17:35:31] <FinalX> many security implications, too
2275 [17:36:08] <shtrb> are you trying to say vms are bad in a security point of view ?
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2277 [17:37:08] <FinalX> A "vm" doesn't make it insecure, but the whole context around it usually does.
2278 [17:37:46] <FinalX> If you're going to make a KVM or LXC container, you'll be installing an OS anyway, so then you're either not using Debian anymore, or you'd be doing the same thing as you'd do on the host.
2279 [17:37:50] <shtrb> Can we continue that on debian-offtopic ?
2280 [17:38:03] <FinalX> I'm not on that channel (nor going to be). But I'll stop :)
2281 [17:38:05] <shtrb> that sound intreguing but I don't like to spam with OT stuff here
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2284 [17:40:26] <shtrb> well lxc is not really a vm , but I do not see how debian over kvm for example is less secure (than a chroot or just running native )
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2293 [17:42:59] <jelly> FinalX: if you have production systems on 3rd party repos, maybe consider sponsoring the versions and platforms you actually need?
2294 [17:43:04] <brontosaurusrex> In openbox I have an xml menu generated by script, whats the correct syntax to add that to openbox root menu as submenu?
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2296 [17:43:31] <brontosaurusrex> Pretty sure it's NOT: <menu execute="cat ~/bin/misc.xml" id="pipeMisc_cached" label="pipe"/>
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2298 [17:43:53] <shtrb|laptop> and by sponsering you could even get a tax refund if there is Debian org somewhere near you
2299 [17:44:00] <jelly> or is your employer like mine, free software means "no cost"
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2305 [17:44:50] <jelly> and no staging environment to speak of
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2308 [17:45:09] <shtrb|laptop> Unless communism works, you need to pay your resources (workers, electircal bill, tax on profit etc)
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2319 [17:49:23] <atif5> Hi
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2321 [17:49:45] <jack69> HI
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2340 [17:59:38] <FinalX> jelly: I taste a lot of bitterness yet again, aimed at bigger corporations using open source. We've been sponsoring Debian for a very long time now, and we do have staging. Yet a) Debian doesn't get newer, higher versions of software after a freeze, right? perhaps through backports, but those don't get the same security-attention as the regular repo does. b) If it were up to me, we wouldn't be using external
2341 [17:59:40] <FinalX> repos. It's just that the developers really want higher versions. So all other "solutions" they could think of aside, this was -for now- the cleanest with the least implications. Sponsoring a specific version would mean we'd be stuck with that version again, no?
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2369 [18:17:35] <ksk> FinalX: I understand the problems, but then is there a alternative that has like new software and is reasonable stable enough for you to use? Id assume if this was the case, you would not use debian
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2371 [18:17:41] <jelly> FinalX: I was thinking sponsoring ondrej to maintain your desired 7.x as long as you needed it
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2375 [18:18:36] <jelly> ksk: the thing is, most people here, myself included, use Debian because it's the best option compared to the alternatives
2376 [18:18:52] <ksk> oh sorry, this topic was marked offtopic just recently? I find it interesting and have encountered the problem before. I want to use debian, but the customer demands new fancy versions of everything.
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2378 [18:19:39] <annadane> slackware is decent. more seperation between base and userland (no dependencies), -current is relatively stable and has changelogs
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2381 [18:19:53] <ksk> FinalX: maybe think of it in views of different stacks, like if they need a php that is not in debian install a VM, container whatever with that and limit access to php-only.
2382 [18:19:53] <jelly> ksk: at that point you ask to define the specific set of "everything" and show them how many extra hours and $$$ that would take
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2385 [18:20:05] <ksk> or maintain your own php - but that is very expensive resource-wise!
2386 [18:20:12] <jelly> because most users don't really need "everything" latest
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2388 [18:20:27] <jelly> not even most devs do
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2392 [18:21:39] <ksk> yeah of course, totally agree.
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2426 [18:48:05] <petn-randall> Hi, what is the bash analog of `&>` for the pipe? It's not `&|`.
2427 [18:48:21] <annadane> do not awake the grey cat
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2429 [18:48:33] <petn-randall> Ah, it's |&, to answer myself.
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2466 [19:15:22] <jak2000> i have 3 pcs.... mine: 192.168.0.1 other 2: 192.168.0.11 and 192.168.0.27 how to know wich mac adress have the ip: 192.168.0.11 ? (and 192.168.0.27) wich command?
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2469 [19:17:07] <SPF> jak2000: ip n
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2476 [19:19:44] <Peyam> hi I downloaded the .deb file of visuals tudio code and I want now to remove it
2477 [19:19:45] <jak2000> thx
2478 [19:19:47] <Peyam> how do I do it
2479 [19:20:42] <ompaul> did you also install it?
2480 [19:20:47] <Peyam> yes
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2482 [19:21:02] <ompaul> with dpkg -i or some other method?
2483 [19:21:04] <Peyam> I did purge --remove
2484 [19:21:09] <Peyam> now it is gone
2485 [19:21:14] <Peyam> thanks
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2487 [19:21:18] <contrapunctus> o/
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2523 [19:42:35] <tkdl> I get an error "chroot: command not found", but coreutils package is installed, what's wrong?
2524 [19:42:43] <greycat> are you root?
2525 [19:42:49] <tkdl> no
2526 [19:43:10] <tkdl> why I need to be root?
2527 [19:43:15] <greycat> You have to be root to perform a chroot operation in the first place, so they felt nothing was lost by putting the chroot command in /usr/sbin.
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2529 [19:43:53] <tkdl> yeah it works with root, tnx
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2554 [20:05:09] <monty86> what happened to mysql? did the owner decide to sell to oracle and then go and start mariadb??
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2568 [20:12:31] <eyalroz> monty86: MySQL always had a free (GPL) edition and proprietary edition(s), and was backed by the Swedish company MySQL AB, founded by the original MySQL authors
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2571 [20:12:56] <eyalroz> In 2008, this company was bought by Sun Microsystems, then 2010, Sun was bought by Oracle Corp.
2572 [20:13:09] <jfbourdeau_> I am new to Debian, was using Ubuntu before. Which Debian based distro have the most modern and easy to use GUI ? I want to install debian on one of my friend computer and he's not good with computer
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2576 [20:13:54] <somiaj> jfbourdeau_: most of us here use debian, so that is what we would suggest. And debian based distros are off topic here
2577 [20:13:55] <eyalroz> monty86: But Oracle had already purchased in 2005 the company that had developed the InnoDB storage engine
2578 [20:14:26] <jfbourdeau_> Ok tks
2579 [20:14:43] <eyalroz> jfbourdeau_: Well...
2580 [20:14:48] <Toadisattva> I'm a big fan of the xfce desktop as far as friendly and powerful (and lightweight) interface
2581 [20:14:50] <eyalroz> I'd say something different.
2582 [20:15:13] <eyalroz> If you're not limiting yourself to systemd-free distributions,
2583 [20:15:34] <monty86> so aren't they going to do the same thing with mariadb?
2584 [20:15:36] <eyalroz> I would say that Linux Mint, which is Debian-based directly or indirectly,
2585 [20:15:55] <monty86> the owner founded a company, sold it, then goes onto create mariadb....and after many years, will do the same thing again
2586 [20:15:59] <monty86> right?
2587 [20:16:01] <eyalroz> is very convenient, and more user-friendly and UI-"polished" than Debian,
2588 [20:16:09] <[Nightmare]> jfbourdeau_: Ubuntu is based on debian... try gnome3 or xfce...
2589 [20:16:12] <eyalroz> but there are different considerations.
2590 [20:16:21] <jfbourdeau_> tks ! to all
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2592 [20:17:15] <eyalroz> monty86: : MariaDB was started as fork of MySQL,
2593 [20:17:24] <eyalroz> to be developed independently of whatever Oracle would do.
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2595 [20:17:46] <eyalroz> Plus, it uses another storage engine as a replacement for InnoDB
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2597 [20:18:04] <monty86> so this time mariadb (or the corporate company behind it) wont be sold?
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2599 [20:18:23] <dgp> monty86: who knows
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2601 [20:18:27] <annadane> well
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2603 [20:18:31] <eyalroz> monty86: MariaDB the software is owned and managed by MariaDB the foundation
2604 [20:18:46] <eyalroz> which is backed by two or three of the original MySQL developers.
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2606 [20:19:25] <monty86> it's nonprofit?
2607 [20:19:33] <eyalroz> monty86: But things are a bit more complex, since one of the members of the foundation is a commercial comany, now called MariaDB Corporation AB
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2609 [20:19:56] <eyalroz> (previously known as SkySQL corp),
2610 [20:20:03] <monty86> wow...so isn't the same thing going to happen again??
2611 [20:20:13] <eyalroz> and it is said to be "the main driving force" behind MariaDB development
2612 [20:20:27] <eyalroz> monty86: It's unlikely that what happened to MySQL will happen again,
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2614 [20:20:43] <eyalroz> because now, if someone were to buy the commercial company, they don't get control of the project.
2615 [20:20:51] <monty86> oh ok
2616 [20:21:02] <eyalroz> But to be honest, I don't know that MySQL is the be-all and end-all of FOSS transactional databases.
2617 [20:21:14] <eyalroz> Myself, I'm interested in analytics DBMSes
2618 [20:21:18] <monty86> it sucks
2619 [20:21:31] <monty86> if you care of relation integrity and ansi standards, it really sucks
2620 [20:21:36] <eyalroz> and for those workloads, DBMSes like MySQL and PostgreSQL are just ridiculously slow.
2621 [20:21:53] <monty86> what type of analytical queries?
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2623 [20:22:10] <eyalroz> let's take this off-channel.
2624 [20:22:11] <monty86> seems like materialized views and columnar storage would fix most of that
2625 [20:22:16] <monty86> oh ok
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2633 [20:28:00] <jhutchins_wk> MariaDB is a definite fork of MySQL. There is another fork, Percona, that aims for 100% compatibility with the current MySQL, plus enhancements.
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2635 [20:28:27] <jhutchins_wk> All of them have Open versions for free, and commercial versions that include support.
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2648 [20:38:43] <monty86> i just wish either one had real materialized views like oracle
2649 [20:39:00] <monty86> i'd even settle for a something like indexed views in mssql
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2651 [20:39:13] <monty86> i know you can fake it with a php addon
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2653 [20:39:54] <jelly> monty86: keep this channel for actionable questions and issues, please
2654 [20:39:59] <monty86> oh ok
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2658 [20:41:52] <jelly> chat is welcome in #debian-offtopic (except tech support questions)
2659 [20:42:40] <monty86> oh ok
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2661 [20:42:52] <monty86> jelly are you a maintainer?
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2665 [20:43:34] <jelly> no, not at all
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2722 [21:09:11] <yokowka> heavennO everysoul!!!! I have such question: in pol i've dukenukem3d20anniversary install, now on desktop is shortcut, but when i press it double - threre is no effect.... What to do to run the game?
2723 [21:09:19] <david___-_> hi. we have a pxe server that we use to auto-install debian. we have the jessie netboot kernel and initrd.gz files on the PXE server. It seems that every time a new version of the kernel and initrd.gz file is released, we get errors on install saying "No kernel modules were found" , and it mentions a mismatch between modules and kernel. We find that re-copying the netboot kernel and initrd.gz files from a mirror resolves this.
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2778 [21:34:21] <mac`> good day, i am having issues on this control group id
2779 [21:34:31] <mac`> systemd[1]: apache2.service: Failed to set invocation ID on control group /system.slice/apache2.service
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2787 [21:39:52] <ksk> jelly: maintains order!
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2806 [21:48:46] <Something1> Debian uses partition names instead of UUIDs for booting... how annoying
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2809 [21:49:40] <mac`> ty
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2812 [21:49:55] <greycat> Something1: Eh? No, a default install uses UUIDs. Of course it'll use whatever you put there.
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2822 [21:52:32] <Something1> On first install it does, greycat. After booting and using update-grub it will finally set the UUID for booting.
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2828 [21:55:29] <Something1> So in my case, in GRUB hitting ´e´ to change it /dev/sda2 to /dev/sdb2. But that was a frustrating 10 minutes of not thinking it would be that strange an oversight
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2840 [22:04:06] <TTT> hi, I have a Debian/Stretch on an old hard drive, with unencrypted root. I bought a new HDD. I want to transfer the old system to new drive, but I want LUKS encrypted root. First, can I have 1 partition with everything LUKS encrypted, or do I need separate /boot and root? Second, how do I transfer unencryted root system to LUKS encrypted system without reinstall?
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2853 [22:18:21] <monty86> would gtk packages look correct on xfce?
2854 [22:18:26] <monty86> the styling and the fonts
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2857 [22:19:23] <Something1> Yes monty86. XFCE is gtk too, albeit version 2 while the gnome and mate apps are version 3
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2861 [22:21:21] <monty86> oh ok
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2915 [22:50:45] <TTT> how big should /boot partition be?
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2918 [22:53:36] <greycat> Mine's using 39M currently. So... multiply that by at least 10?
2919 [22:53:48] <greycat> Depending on how long you plan to keep this machine.
2920 [22:54:33] <greycat> Also increase the size if you plan to keep lots of kernel images around, e.g. because you run testing/unstable or some unusual architecture or whatever.
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2925 [22:55:46] <monty86> should I scrap my perfectly setup opensuse and install debian just cause of 1 package failing to work?
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2928 [22:56:56] <jhutchins_wk> monty86: We think you should.
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2954 [23:10:37] <Something1> monty86, it´s not perfect if a package fails to work :P
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2959 [23:15:38] <Something1> I love how in Linux I can put the host in standby, take out the OS drive, edit in another computer, and plug it back in, and upon resume it acts like nothing happened.
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2962 [23:16:40] <monty86> what is the default web browser in lxde in debian?
2963 [23:19:42] <Something1> firefox-esr if no other browser is specified
2964 [23:21:49] <greycat> Oh, there it is -- it's in the *Recommends* on lxde. Recommends: ... firefox-esr | firefox | replaced-url
2965 [23:22:13] <greycat> it's possible to waste a bunch of time recursively checking only the Depends
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2973 [23:26:48] <monty86> sorry one more question, does the default debian installation include the packages for connecting to network shares (cifs)?
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2975 [23:27:02] <greycat> If you mean samba-client, then no. But you can install it.
2976 [23:27:05] <monty86> i remember back in 2011 I had to install cifs-utils
2977 [23:27:27] <monty86> but that was when I did a minimal install with fluxbox
2978 [23:27:40] <greycat> A "default" Debian installation means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, by the way.
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2980 [23:28:34] <monty86> oh ok
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2984 [23:31:04] <monty86> one thing that worries me is the 2+ year release cycle
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2988 [23:31:55] <Something1> Lots of people use the unstable branch for home computers
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2994 [23:34:03] <monty86> From a community point of view openSUSE is far more open than Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian and many other distribution. Other distributions tend to be more tightly controlled by corporate sponsors or community governance processes that leverage technical boards, community committees, self appointed benevolent dictators (<- that's Mark Shuttleworth in his own words) and lots of bureaucracy. We maintain a German-engineering culture
2995 [23:34:05] <monty86> associated with directness and high quality standards - if you do the work, you get the respect. Nobody tells you what to do.
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2997 [23:34:07] <hicks> monty86: Depending on what you need, that 2+ years can be an advantage. Little changes in the base system, no new bugs to worry about :) Hopefully there's only a few programs you need latest version of and for that, backports can be useful.
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