People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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7 [00:03:51] <somiaj> in linux almost all drivers (modules) are in the kernel and don't need a tool to manage them. You should answer poprocks if you have an actual issue, what is it you are looking to do? If you want to list all hardware on your system, install and use lshw, there is also lspci, and lsusb for pci and usb bus
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10 [00:04:30] <jack__> so in order to
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12 [00:04:53] <jack__> know if there is a proprietary driver for my pc
13 [00:05:13] <jack__> i have to google for every piece of hardware ?
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20 [00:09:59] <jack__> i found this hardinfo
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25 [00:13:18] <poprocks> Well... lspci -v will give you some good info about your hardware. You have to understand, Linux comes from the philosophy that device drivers should be GPL and pushed upstream to the kernel tree in order for hardware to be supported. Third party binary drivers are not really in line with that philosophy. Yes, there are hacks out there that sort of "force" binary or semi-binary drivers to function. The nvidia binary drivers
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31 [00:16:51] <poprocks> jack__: Also many of us find things like a "found new hardware wizard" and the like to be somewhat of an affront to how we want our OS's to function. I have a Slackware box for example, which could just as easily be a Debian Stable box, that functions as a server. It just sits there for months on end without being rebooted, and it doesn't even have a monitor or keyboard attached. In fact, I'm chatting with you right now by
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33 [00:18:08] <hicks> Install debian, if everything works, you don't _need_ proprietary drivers. If something doesn't work, like wifi or GFX you might, then you search for the hardware you have to find out (or ask here). If everything works but you have issues, perhaps slow fps in games, then you might also need proprietary. In the process you'll learn a little about the kind of hw best supported by linux which will help you make more informed purchases in the future.
34 [00:18:23] <annadane> this is what i'm saying. unless you need proprietary, don't use it
35 [00:18:33] <annadane> !xy problem
36 [00:18:33] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
37 [00:19:00] <somiaj> in most cases users of linux want free drivers, and if you get new hardware, all you often have to do is plug it in, and load the correct module
38 [00:19:29] <annadane> missing firmware can be discovered later via dmesg | grep -i firmware but even then, just because it says something is missing doesn't mean you necessarily need it
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40 [00:19:35] <annadane> if unsure, ask the lovely people in #debian
41 [00:19:54] <annadane> microcode is more important, i'd at least have that installed
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49 [00:24:35] <annadane> if the question is "i want to install debian but i'm scared of not being able to boot into it at all or install from the mirrors at all because my hardware requires non-free stuff", there are non-free firmware installer images
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54 [00:25:46] <poprocks> annadane: I'm not sure he has a question.
55 [00:26:10] <jack__> I found this packet: firmware-linux-nonfree
56 [00:26:21] <jack__> you guys are completely useless
57 [00:26:30] <annadane> why not ask intelligent questions first?
58 [00:26:44] <somiaj> jack__: if you want good support ask good questions. You asked for a hardware manager, and were given multiple ways to list the hardware on your system.
59 [00:28:18] <somiaj> but in this case, if you are having trouble with a paticular piece of hardware, ask about that piece of hardware.
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61 [00:29:35] <jack__> no i just like performance
62 [00:29:53] <annadane> ok, but the proprietary software doesn't always give you better performance
63 [00:30:06] <jack__> hmmm
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65 [00:30:41] <jack__> whats the difference between iucode and intel-microcode ?
66 [00:30:50] <annadane> apt show iucode intel-microcode
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69 [00:31:38] <annadane> oh, oops
70 [00:31:43] <annadane> apt show iucode-tool intel-microcode
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74 [00:33:36] <jack__> hmm
75 [00:34:20] <annadane> (which will only actually work if you have contrib non-free in your sources.list but packages.debian.org also has descriptions)
76 [00:34:52] <jack__> you install both
77 [00:36:01] <annadane> well, iucode-tool is a dependency of intel-microcode
78 [00:36:16] <jack__> yea
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80 [00:36:32] <annadane> but i guess i shouldn't be answering questions if i'm useless
81 [00:36:36] <annadane> i'll just go away then
82 [00:37:04] <jack__> correct
83 [00:37:32] <annadane> and nobody will help you either with that attitude
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85 [00:37:39] <annadane> sorry, we're not puppets
86 [00:37:47] <annadane> we do have feelings
87 [00:38:17] <jack__> apt show is cool
88 [00:38:18] <apt> ...but show is already something else...
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90 [00:38:57] <jack__> i was reading about firmware-misc-nonfree
91 [00:39:16] <jack__> there is a list of hardware
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95 [00:40:27] <jack__> a pretty long list
96 [00:41:06] <jack__> and here comes back my first question
97 [00:41:34] <jack__> Why there is not a fuckin autodetect
98 [00:41:37] <jack__> ?
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100 [00:41:56] <jack__> and
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102 [00:42:27] <jack__> suppose I need 1 of em , installing em all will slow my pc ?
103 [00:42:39] <jack__> ???
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108 [00:44:13] <jack__> a wiki says "In some cases the installer detects the need for non-free firmware and prompts the user to make the firmware available to the installer to complete the installation."
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110 [00:44:21] <jack__> but its not true
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112 [00:44:50] <annadane> what you just said it manifestly false and it's pissing me off
113 [00:44:54] <annadane> s/it/is
114 [00:45:04] <annadane> i'm just putting you on ignore
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116 [00:45:30] <jack__> fine!
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124 [00:52:15] <xar-> don't feed the trolls annadane
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127 [00:52:58] <jack__> should i install firmware-misc-nonfree ?
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129 [00:53:21] <xar-> sure, what's the worst that could happen?
130 [00:53:42] <jack__> slow pc ?
131 [00:54:03] <xar-> should make things faster.
132 [00:54:31] <jack__> it has a long list of drivers
133 [00:54:46] <xar-> the sky is blue.
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137 [00:56:22] <jack__> "firmware-linux-nonfree" has anything else other than its depedencies ?
138 [00:56:52] <xar-> probably.
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144 [01:03:22] <jack__> its 19k large
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146 [01:03:38] <jack__> it could be just a container
147 [01:03:49] <somiaj> just installing firmware isn't nesacarlly going to increase preformance
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149 [01:04:37] <somiaj> as already mentioned, you can see what firmware your system is looking for and isn't able to load with dmesg | grep -i firmware
150 [01:05:34] <somiaj> I wouldn't worry about this unless you have a specific issue, then research that issue. For the most part the best modules are already included in the linux kernel
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152 [01:06:59] <jack__> that command , gives me just this
153 [01:07:01] <jack__> BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
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156 [01:08:20] <jack__> somiaj, don't you think that intel microcodes will improve performances ?
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162 [01:11:26] <somiaj> jack__: not really, though it is suggested you install it, or just update the firmware on your mobo
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171 [01:20:14] <jack__> somebody tells the devs to make a nonfree drivers autodetect please
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178 [01:22:53] <somiaj> Read the debian social contract, debian main is only for free stuff. And the nature of non-free is we can't support it, becase the linux devs can't see the source code
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181 [01:24:14] <jack__> yeah bu do that anyway
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187 [01:29:06] <jack__> oh
188 [01:29:43] <jack__> the downloaded firefox is like a standalone version ! cool!
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296 [03:04:57] <agio> hi, is it possible to print gpg-agents current cache-ttl?
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313 [03:14:13] <kilo> hellooooo
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315 [03:14:23] <annadane> hellooooooooo
316 [03:14:30] <kilo> hellooooooooooooo
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318 [03:15:14] <kilo> hmmm
319 [03:16:09] *** Joins: hen- (~hen@replaced-ip )
320 [03:16:31] <kilo> head on over to #kilonet for some spicy OS debates!
321 [03:16:53] <abrotman> kilo: Please don't spam this channel
322 [03:17:12] <kilo> not spam
323 [03:17:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o abrotman
324 [03:17:22] *** abrotman sets mode: +q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.97.254.75
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327 [03:17:43] <annadane> k, will make a note to ignore them in future
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375 [03:52:27] <abrotman> w/in 25
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392 [04:08:19] <doloh4rze> hi
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394 [04:09:02] <Vaelatern> /close
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507 [05:52:09] <happygilmoregent> I need some help with nvidia-390.67 per nvidia.com says covers linux 64bit
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510 [05:53:51] <happygilmoregent> how does dkms work?
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517 [06:00:02] <Tom-_> !dkms
518 [06:00:03] <dpkg> Dynamic Kernel Module Support (DKMS) is a framework for generating out-of-tree Linux kernel modules. Packages using DKMS build modules during installation and when updated Linux versions are installed, provided Linux kernel headers are present (these are not installed by dkms). DKMS-managed modules are installed to /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/updates/dkms/ . The module build log file is at /var/lib/dkms/$module/$version/build/make.log
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520 [06:00:13] <Tom-_> automatically compiles kernel modules for you
521 [06:00:15] <poprocks> happygilmoregent: because the Linux kernel doesn't have anything like a stable ABI, it manages building a rebuilding external kernel modules against the kernel(s) you are running
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523 [06:00:24] <happygilmoregent> oh ok
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528 [06:07:20] <Sleaker> so I'm trying to create a kickstart image with preseed that uses my own gpg key, what's the best way to inject the key to get it to sign properly, or is there a better way to handle the gpg signing issue?
529 [06:07:28] <Surre> Hey all. What proxy is there apart from tinyproxy? I'm having problems installing it so I'm looking for an alternative
530 [06:07:47] <Surre> It's for internal use so I'm looking for something fast, it doesn't have to do any checks, just forward the request
531 [06:07:48] <Sleaker> I know in the past with ubuntu I just rebuilt the ubuntu-keyring package with my own king included, but it seemed like kind of a hacky solution, not sure if there's a more clean way to do it.
532 [06:07:59] <Sleaker> key*
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539 [06:15:06] <SerajewelKS> Surre: you might have better luck if you explain your use case as well as the issue you're having with tinyproxy
540 [06:15:22] <Surre> I'm getting this error "Restarting tinyproxy (via systemctl): tinyproxy.serviceJob for tinyproxy.service failed because the service did not take the steps required by its unit configuration."
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544 [06:15:42] <Surre> when I try to start/restart it
545 [06:16:01] <SerajewelKS> what do the logs say?
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548 [06:18:11] <Surre> it says /run/tinyproxy/tinyproxy.pid is not readable, no such file or directory
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550 [06:18:25] <Surre> "Daemon never wrote its PID file. Failing."
551 [06:18:35] <Surre> I'm pasting the whole message, one sec
552 [06:19:05] <Surre> replaced-url
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554 [06:19:40] <Surre> looks like the daemon should have written its pid in /run/tinyproxy/tinyproxy.pid
555 [06:19:43] <SerajewelKS> Surre: did you report the bug?
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557 [06:20:06] <Surre> no, it's probably something else honestly
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559 [06:20:55] <SerajewelKS> Surre: /run should be a tmpfs on debian
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561 [06:21:22] <SerajewelKS> which means it doesn't survive reboots. so nothing you did in there could have caused the problem.
562 [06:21:29] <SerajewelKS> or, if you did, a reboot would fix it
563 [06:22:01] <Surre> hmn, I see your point
564 [06:22:27] <Surre> any workaround while the issue is addressed?
565 [06:22:48] <Surre> I'm not committed to tinyproxy, any proxy would do
566 [06:22:55] <Surre> my use case is this
567 [06:23:11] <SerajewelKS> i mean, you could back up your config, purge it, reinstall it
568 [06:23:20] <SerajewelKS> see if that resolves the issue. if it does, it's your config at fault.
569 [06:23:27] <Sleaker> stunnel? ssh -L? .. there's a lot of ways to do a generic tunnel aren't there?
570 [06:23:31] <SerajewelKS> you may also try installing debian in a VM and installing tinyproxy on that
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572 [06:24:33] <SerajewelKS> Surre: did you tweak the systemd unit at all?
573 [06:25:31] <SerajewelKS> Surre: it seems that tinyproxy drops root privileges before writing its pid file. which is a dumb thing to do. only root can write in /run by default.
574 [06:25:43] <SerajewelKS> so i guess this is by design. i would report it to the debian bug tracker.
575 [06:25:44] <Surre> I have one server A from which I want to request a 3rd party server B using two different public IPs. I plan to setup two machines A' and A'' as proxy, on different connections, to forward the requests from A
576 [06:25:54] <SerajewelKS> maybe the maintainer can patch it to be sane
577 [06:25:59] <Surre> I didn't tweak anything. I'll try purge+install in a moment
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579 [06:26:20] <Surre> <SerajewelKS> Surre: it seems that tinyproxy drops root privileges before writing its pid file. which is a dumb thing to do. only root can write in /run by default.
580 [06:26:29] <Surre> weird, if that's the case everyone should be getting this error
581 [06:27:39] <SerajewelKS> based on the number of github issues on their tracker about tinyproxy failing to start after a reboot, citing errors creating a PID file, i would say plenty of people are getting this error
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583 [06:27:50] <SerajewelKS> file a bug against the debian package. the maintainer will fix it or punt it upstream.
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585 [06:28:09] <Surre> alright
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587 [06:28:13] <Surre> maybe I can temporarily change the permission of that dir
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589 [06:28:23] <Surre> or use another proxy altogether, if you have a good suggestion :)
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591 [06:29:46] <Surre> changing the permissions didn't help. there's probably another problem behind this issue?
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598 [06:34:57] <SerajewelKS> what did you set the permissions to
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600 [06:35:36] <Surre> 777, just to check if it worked
601 [06:35:38] <SerajewelKS> and on which nodes
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603 [06:36:07] <Surre> on 777 on /run/tinyproxy/ recursively
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671 [07:30:26] <darxmurf> morning
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695 [07:40:16] <foo> I'm looking at how many workers to set on an app. It says this: Rule of thumb : (#CPU * 2) + 1 - how do I know how many know of #CPU's I have? What command would show me that? This instance is running in aws
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708 [07:48:17] <nzhuk98> foo, you can get a list of your processors/cores with cat /proc/cpuinfo
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712 [07:51:40] <foo> nzhuk98: I suspect this means I only have 1 core, correct? replaced-url
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714 [07:53:03] <nzhuk98> correct
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716 [07:53:40] <foo> nzhuk98: thank you
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764 [08:32:48] <]BFG[> fuck debian with your worthless fucking piece of shit SYSTEMD
765 [08:32:53] <]BFG[> get fucked into pieces
766 [08:32:58] <]BFG[> hope this shit project dies
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772 [08:34:21] <pvdp> There is always #devuan for you...
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779 [08:44:37] <iflema> is devuan reproducable yet...
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783 [08:47:38] <OxDebug> Just a quick test.
784 [08:48:54] <annadane> !test
785 [08:48:54] <dpkg> Test failed.
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788 [08:49:22] <OxDebug> lol
789 [08:49:29] <OxDebug> testing color scheme thats why lol dont poke too much fun
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793 [08:51:09] <rant> foo: use lscpu instead
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796 [08:51:38] <rant> proc is cumbersome for that info because it outputs a whole thing for each core rather than combining it all into one
797 [08:51:50] <rant> which is what lscpu does
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808 [08:58:24] <dadabidet> hello
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810 [08:58:43] <dadabidet> does debian support a lighter windowing manager, like XFCE?
811 [08:59:02] <dadabidet> I mean what is the most reliable of them?
812 [08:59:04] <rant> xfce is not a window manager and yes we have xfce
813 [08:59:18] <dadabidet> what's it called then?
814 [08:59:27] <rant> we have 6 complete desktop environments, of which xfce is one of them
815 [08:59:30] <dadabidet> xorg is a windowing manager
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817 [08:59:43] <rant> window managers on the other hand we have probably more than 4 times that many
818 [08:59:57] <rant> no xorg is not a windowing managr either
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820 [09:00:20] <rant> its a graphical client server it doesnt even put things into a window
821 [09:00:33] <dadabidet> X then?
822 [09:00:38] <rant> you have to run an actual window manager AS an X client to even have windows
823 [09:00:46] <rant> X doesnt do windows
824 [09:00:55] <dadabidet> ok so X is a window manager
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826 [09:01:08] <dadabidet> any example of a window manager?
827 [09:01:10] <rant> X DOES NOT DO WINDOWS _AT_ _ALL_
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829 [09:01:21] <rant> thats what a window manager does
830 [09:01:37] <rant> a window manager is an X11 client application
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832 [09:01:45] <rant> X is the server
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834 [09:02:12] <dadabidet> <rant> window managers on the other hand we have probably more than 4 times that many <- any example?
835 [09:02:21] <babilen> dadabidet: take a look at i3, awesomewm, xmonad, fluxbox, openbox, …
836 [09:02:31] <rant> all X does is start a server that makes use of the graphics and input hardware to allow applications to connect to it as clients
837 [09:02:33] <mroh> dadabidet: the (standard) window manager in xfce is called xfwm4
838 [09:02:47] <dadabidet> are those usable on top of gnome or xfce?
839 [09:03:05] <babilen> dadabidet: partially, but generally speaking: no
840 [09:03:29] <rant> dadabidet: gnome and xce are whats called Desktop Environments, which include a window manager, and the window manager can be swapped out for another, yes
841 [09:03:34] <babilen> The desktop environments you mentioned typically come with their own window manager (cf. mroh's comment)
842 [09:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1622
843 [09:04:24] * babilen would love to see KDE paired with i3
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846 [09:06:07] <dadabidet> so now, a bare copy of netinst.iso on a fat32 usb drive will suffice for installing?
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851 [09:06:56] <rant> dadabidet: a desktop envrionment (DE) is a suite of applications, we have 7 of them Gnome, KDE, Mate, Cinnamon, LXDE, LXQT, XF. A DE typically includes a session manager which maintains all the applications that are part of the DE and handles logging in/out and starts up applications and remembers running applications to start next time. There is also a window manager which makes windows and draws frames and
852 [09:07:02] <rant> allows you to mov e applications around and stack them, then there is usualy some kind of panel for menus/icons etc, a deskto application providing the ability to put icons and perhaps applets on the root window of X, and then there is usually a file manager a browser and various other accessories and such included
853 [09:07:35] <rant> dadabidet: what sort of internet connectivity do you have on the machine you will install to? and what sort of networking adapter does it have?
854 [09:08:08] <dadabidet> Im just looking for a light DE, I guess xfce is popular enough, I remember LXDE is less mainstream
855 [09:08:31] <dadabidet> I have an asus laptop, wifi requires web login, so it's not great
856 [09:08:56] <rant> dadabidet: does the wifi remember the mac ID or does it require web login every time?
857 [09:09:26] <rant> I use one of those but mine will remember my network adapters MAC ID so I only have to login once as long as I use the same mac/hardware address
858 [09:09:29] <dadabidet> Mmmmh good question, I don't think I had to login this morning, so it might remember MAC like you're saying
859 [09:09:44] <rant> dadabidet: you cannot do a web login from the netinstall
860 [09:09:45] <dadabidet> I remember it kinda of resets around 11AM
861 [09:10:09] <dadabidet> so netinstall, being a 290MB still requires being online
862 [09:10:11] <rant> so if you need to do that, a netinstall will not be sufficient to do more than a base (text) install
863 [09:10:39] <rant> yes, that is correct. you may also have issues if your wifi adapter requires non-free firmware
864 [09:10:44] <dadabidet> Ill use gnome at first
865 [09:11:04] <annadane> i think xfce's certainly more light than gnome
866 [09:11:04] <dadabidet> jeez wifi sucks so much
867 [09:11:09] <rant> so you may be better off using the GNOME dvd1 iso to install unless you are savvy
868 [09:11:19] <dadabidet> its 2018 and wifi still sucks on linux
869 [09:11:25] <annadane> yeah well
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871 [09:11:34] <annadane> the dream is to _someday_ have passably free hardware
872 [09:11:46] <dadabidet> If the debian DVD image fits on my usb drive I can also use it
873 [09:11:52] <Srdeg> Does anyone know whats up with these errors: replaced-url
874 [09:12:09] <rant> no, it works pretty good in most cases.. just Debian's policy is not to include non-free components in its main distribution which may or may not even apply to you.. my wifi doesnt require non-free firmware
875 [09:12:34] <rant> you can also add in the non-free firmware during the installer but the unstaller doesnt come with it
876 [09:12:37] * annadane doesn't use wifi really ever so ignores dpkg complaining
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881 [09:14:26] <rant> Srdeg: if you mean the rfkill stuff it means the radio kill switch is on
882 [09:15:38] <rant> Srdeg: there are sometimes software and/or hardware switches to shut off the radios on a system.. that can be for any radios.. wifi, bluetooth, etc.. and for example clicking on the network manager icon in a panel and unchecking wifi sets a soft kill, where flipping a switch on a laptop sets a hard kill
883 [09:15:48] <agio> there are some libre wifi adapters available:
884 [09:15:50] <agio> replaced-url
885 [09:16:23] <agio> that have libre firmware too
886 [09:16:34] <rant> mine isn't libre per-se its just old and doesnt require non-free firmware. It does however have a bug that makes it not work with the new interace naming scheme
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891 [09:17:23] <rant> it uses a Realtek RTL8187B chipset and as long as you disable the net.ifnames at boot, it works fine
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894 [09:18:13] <agio> rant: im running realtek rtl8192se - its a good adapter but non-free. did you replace your original wifi adapter with the Realtek?
895 [09:18:34] <rant> I dont have an "original wifi adapter"
896 [09:18:56] <rant> I'm on a thin client that didnt have one so I used a Netgear WG111v3 USB
897 [09:19:15] <rant> I could certainly put one in it.. it has a mini pcie slot.. but I dont have one :P
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899 [09:20:01] <Srdeg> rant: and what should i do to fix it ?
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901 [09:20:02] <agio> rant: oh, ok. and the netgear uses the rtl8187b "under the hood" ?
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904 [09:20:38] <rant> Srdeg: you should first figure out what is causing the rfkill, use the rfkill command to see if its hard or soft blocked.. then you remove the block by turning the kill off
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908 [09:21:23] <Srdeg> rant , its not hard its just that the wifi drops and the NM reconnects it
909 [09:21:28] <rant> Srdeg: I can't say because as I told you there are numerous ways it can be enabled and idk what you've done.. you may have a physical switch on your machine you flipped, or maybe you clicked disable networking in the network-manager applet I dont knot
910 [09:22:00] <rant> and those are just the two most common ways an RF Kill is applied not by any means the only way
911 [09:22:13] <Srdeg> rant: thats the thing, i dont do anything , it just randomly disconnects the wifi :/
912 [09:22:14] <rant> the rfkill command can do it
913 [09:22:27] <agio> rant: how do you find the performance of the netgear/rtl8187b ?
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915 [09:22:42] <rant> Srdeg: that may be so, but I've never known it to be.. rfkills arent usually applied automatically
916 [09:22:55] <dadabidet> sorry did see the answer to my question about a larger USB image/
917 [09:23:10] <dadabidet> if you answered my question
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920 [09:23:23] <Srdeg> rant: maybe the switch is fkedup... and thats why i keep getting this problem
921 [09:23:28] <rant> Srdeg: you need to provide more info and use a damn pastebin so we can read it.. like paste.debian.net or termbin.com because that screenshot was nearly unreadable
922 [09:23:48] <rant> Srdeg: I wouldnt know until you tell me more about the hardware or the output from the rfkill command
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925 [09:24:42] <rant> Srdeg: though its possible rfkill is not installed which would be a pain when your network isnt working to install it
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927 [09:25:30] <rant> dadabidet: you need to figure out what kind of wifi adapter you have.. what OS is the machine running now?
928 [09:25:32] <Srdeg> rant: I'm using... Wifi 4965AGN / Wireless Card
929 [09:26:01] <dadabidet> rant windows10
930 [09:26:04] <rant> Srdeg: so are millions of other people.. that wouldnt tell me if the machine its in has a hardware or soft-fn-key switch
931 [09:26:28] <Srdeg> rant: yes this old lappy does have a hard switch
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934 [09:26:56] <dadabidet> rant realtek RTL8723BE
935 [09:26:58] <rant> dadabidet: you should be able to go to the device manager and right click the network card and goto properties and get the vend/prod id codes of your adapter or at least tell us its generic name and we can try determine if additional firmware would be required
936 [09:27:46] *** Quits: ktrl (~ktrl@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
937 [09:28:21] <dadabidet> Realtek RTL8723BE Wireless LAN 802.11n PCI-E NIC
938 [09:28:34] <rant> dadabidet: yes that adapter requires firmware-realtek which is in our non-free section so you could use the netinstall but you'd need to manually provide that firmware package
939 [09:28:56] <rant> dadabidet: or alternatively use a larger install media
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941 [09:29:47] <agio> also, if you need to connect to a secured access point you will need wpa_supplicant - which I dont think is provided by the netinstaller
942 [09:29:50] <dadabidet> rant: so what image should I download? is there a larger image I can copy directly to my usb drive?
943 [09:30:29] <dadabidet> so only torrents are available
944 [09:30:30] <rant> dadabidet: its your choice.. you would need only manually download the firmware-realtek package and put it on the netinst media
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947 [09:30:47] <rant> dadabidet: and no, its available as torrent or http/ftp download
948 [09:31:15] <rant> ,v firmware-realtek
949 [09:31:16] <judd> Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 0.36+wheezy.1; wheezy-backports/non-free: 0.43~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-backports/non-free: 20161130-3~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-3; stretch-backports/non-free: 20170823-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20170823-1; sid/non-free: 20170823-1
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951 [09:31:26] <agio> rant: how do you find the performance of the netgear/rtl8187b ? does it work well?
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953 [09:32:20] <dadabidet> replaced-url
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955 [09:32:46] <s8548a> hi
956 [09:32:49] <rant> dadabidet: its not in the /dists/ its in /pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-realtek_20161130-3_all.deb
957 [09:33:16] <dadabidet> rant: I meant the large dvd image I can copy on an usb drive
958 [09:33:38] <s8548a> is sudo password is not the root pswd and user pswd?
959 [09:33:57] <dadabidet> replaced-url
960 [09:33:59] <rant> dadabidet: oh, that also is not in /dists/ or even /debian/ its in /debian-cd/
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963 [09:35:00] <dadabidet> oh so the larger image is actually 3 dvd images?
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965 [09:35:21] <rant> dadabidet: that mirror doesn't seem to have it.. replaced-url
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967 [09:35:28] <rant> dadabidet: you only need the first one
968 [09:35:43] <rant> dadabidet: its actually more like 14 DVDs but only 3 are available for download
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972 [09:36:15] <rant> dadabidet: without knowing the arch and if you want BT or HTTP/FTP I can't give you a direct link
973 [09:36:33] <rant> dadabidet: would also need to know which DE you want as there are DVD1 ISOS for each DE
974 [09:36:33] <dadabidet> whatever happens, will the firmware-realtek package be in that DVD1 ?
975 [09:36:36] *** Quits: wgas (~wgas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
976 [09:36:38] <rant> no
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978 [09:36:46] <dadabidet> rant: I'll do with gnome for now
979 [09:36:56] <dadabidet> ok so I don't need that DVD intall
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981 [09:37:04] <rant> well I could check.. but its irrelevant really as it'd have all the whole DE on the DVD
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984 [09:37:41] <dadabidet> Can I have that firmware-realtek in an usb install?
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986 [09:38:23] <s8548a> BRB
987 [09:38:57] <rant> dadabidet: its in the non-free section so only way to have it is to download it manually no matter which method you use. However with the DVD you wont need it DURING install because the DVD will have everything needed to install a complete graphical DE system
988 [09:39:17] <dadabidet> ooh
989 [09:39:18] <rant> dadabidet: in any case you will have to manually download or download with apt after install
990 [09:39:50] <rant> dadabidet: the netinst just only contains enough to install a base system which is text mode only
991 [09:40:16] <dadabidet> although netinst is a smaller isntall time that downloading the full DVD, since netinst will pick relevant packages
992 [09:41:08] <dadabidet> I should just put the realtek package on the USB drive and manually isntall it
993 [09:41:13] <rant> dadabidet: netinst will download those packages if you want to install a DE but if you dont have your firmware during the netinst (which you must manually add since its non-free) you will not be able to install more than whats on the netinst image which is only the base
994 [09:41:56] <rant> dadabidet: if you manually download the firmware-realtek deb and put it on the netinst you can then load it during install and install a complete desktop install via the internet
995 [09:42:24] <dadabidet> where is that .deb?
996 [09:42:34] <dadabidet> just google I guess
997 [09:43:01] <rant> dadabidet: its in /pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-realtek_20161130-3_all.deb
998 [09:43:02] <danwellby> replaced-url
999 [09:43:16] <rant> danwellby: uh.. no..
1000 [09:43:23] <rant> thats ancient
1001 [09:43:26] <annadane> replaced-url
1002 [09:43:41] <dadabidet> replaced-url
1003 [09:43:47] <dadabidet> yes I found the same
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1005 [09:43:52] <annadane> (not sid!)
1006 [09:43:54] <dadabidet> less than 400KB
1007 [09:43:56] <rant> dadabidet: I woudlnt download the sid one either
1008 [09:44:06] <danwellby> thats right, wrong way
1009 [09:44:08] <rant> if you want to use the previously mentioned mirror
1010 [09:45:39] <dadabidet> what is the difference?
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1012 [09:45:46] <rant> replaced-url
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1014 [09:46:08] <rant> the difference is you dont want a sid or wheezy package on a stretch system
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1019 [09:46:38] <rant> the above link is the stretch package from the mirror you mentioned earlier
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1021 [09:47:27] <annadane> i think you create a folder in the top level of your install medium called firmware and put the .deb in there, if i'm not mistaken
1022 [09:47:32] <annadane> the install notes mention this
1023 [09:47:39] <rant> and really you only need one file from that deb
1024 [09:48:01] <rant> but as annadane said IIRC you can just put the deb on the root of the netinst image
1025 [09:48:03] <dadabidet> so do we agree that netinst.iso will boot automatically, by just copying it on a USB stick?
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1027 [09:48:27] <annadane> it depends on your BIOS
1028 [09:48:38] <annadane> ...settings
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1031 [09:48:56] <rant> dadabidet: yes, it will boot if copied i.e. cp netinst.iso /dev/sdb on linux, but you said you're on windows 10, so no.. you need a raw writer
1032 [09:49:05] <rant> linux knows what to do with it, windows doesnt
1033 [09:49:07] <dadabidet> oh ok
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1035 [09:49:46] <annadane> bah i'm trying to find the right link about the firmware on the install medium and can't find it
1036 [09:49:50] <dadabidet> so a raw writer like what, does debian recommends one?
1037 [09:49:57] <annadane> usually people use cp
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1040 [09:50:13] <rant> annadane: for win10
1041 [09:50:14] <dadabidet> yes I know but Im installing debian because I don't have linux
1042 [09:50:16] <annadane> oh, windows 10
1043 [09:50:20] <annadane> !win32diskimager
1044 [09:50:20] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from replaced-url
1045 [09:50:32] <danwellby> etcher is the most user friendly writer I have found for windows, even if it is non-free
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1047 [09:51:01] <annadane> !etcher
1048 [09:51:01] <dpkg> Initial testing shows etcher is not a reliable way to copy debian images for installation. instead use cp or dd for linux, or win32diskimager for windows. replaced-url
1049 [09:51:08] <BlackBishop> trying to upgrade all the packages to latest deb8 so I can then move to deb9 I get this .. replaced-url
1050 [09:51:24] <dadabidet> I hope that file is not malware infected like many of those sourceforge projects
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1052 [09:51:37] <annadane> the .deb? it's from debian's website...
1053 [09:51:45] <rant> annadane: replaced-url
1054 [09:51:57] <rant> annadane: he means the image writer
1055 [09:52:01] <annadane> the issue is i'm trying to read when i'm really tired
1056 [09:52:17] * rant makes annadane a coffee
1057 [09:52:36] <annadane> oh, scourgeforge, right
1058 [09:52:46] <annadane> err, sourceforge
1059 [09:52:58] <rant> actually loading firmware in installer though is replaced-url
1060 [09:53:07] <rant> which is the best resource as the wiki is dated
1061 [09:53:14] <babilen> dpkg: firmware image
1062 [09:53:15] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
1063 [09:53:34] <annadane> actually it's replaced-url
1064 [09:53:36] <annadane> ...yeah
1065 [09:53:45] <annadane> too slow
1066 [09:53:57] <rant> babilen: now that i didnt know about
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1069 [09:54:44] <annadane> "To prepare a USB stick (or other medium like a hard drive partition, or floppy disk), the firmware files or packages must be placed in either the root directory or a directory named /firmware of the file system on the medium"
1070 [09:54:56] <rant> dadabidet: appaerently as bablien has informed us, we DO have installer images with the firmware already on them
1071 [09:54:58] <annadane> root here meaning top level
1072 [09:55:07] <annadane> and yeah we do, so it's up to you
1073 [09:55:09] <babilen> You can just grab the images referenced above if you plan to use the netinst
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1075 [09:56:02] <dadabidet> rant: babilen are those stable version of debian? are they just tailored image for wifi support?
1076 [09:56:41] <rant> dadabidet: it appears so.. and being that they're on debian.org, while they're unoficial they are obviously from offical channels
1077 [09:56:50] <dadabidet> seems like they're specially made for chipset support
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1080 [09:57:06] <dadabidet> but they're non free image then
1081 [09:57:40] <babilen> Indeed, non-free firmware is in non-free
1082 [09:57:42] <dadabidet> yes they non free its in the path
1083 [09:58:01] <babilen> dpkg: firmware
1084 [09:58:01] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
1085 [09:58:35] <rant> replaced-url
1086 [09:58:56] <annadane> that's probably what i should have done initially back when i didn't know any better, i'm not sure if i ever knew of the existence of the non-free images, luckily everything worked out on the first try
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1088 [09:59:21] <annadane> and by first try i really mean like fifth try because i used rufus
1089 [09:59:28] <rant> I have always used full install images or installed over ethernet in these cases
1090 [09:59:30] <dadabidet> annadane: you mean wifi worked without those non free firmware? what kind of chipset was it?
1091 [09:59:48] <dadabidet> Well Im at a school, so no ethernet
1092 [09:59:54] <annadane> i just meant in general for my system, back when my level of knowledge was less than it is now (if such a thing is even possible)
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1099 [10:00:37] <annadane> my wifi lists firmware that should be installed though i don't know if that's for bare minnimum functionality or maximum functionality, but i never use it anyway so i just don't bother
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1103 [10:00:54] <annadane> and not for installs anyhow
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1107 [10:01:15] <rant> as I mentioned I have an old Netgear WG111v3 USB dongle and it has the RTL8187B which doesnt require non-free firmware, and is supported by the installer.. however if the installer/system uses the new long interface naming scheme the adapter will constantly deauth every time you try connect
1108 [10:01:25] <rant> requires the kernel param net.ifnames=0 to work
1109 [10:01:28] <annadane> have we confirmed the architecture in question here actually is amd64? it's good to check
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1113 [10:01:44] <annadane> but yeah, just replace amd64 with whatever yours actually is
1114 [10:01:47] <rant> annadane: he's running win10 on it.. I think its a safe bet
1115 [10:01:54] <annadane> (it usually is amd64, it's by far the most common)
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1118 [10:02:01] <rant> annadane: its not like win10 has a wide range of supported archs
1119 [10:02:04] <rant> heh
1120 [10:02:20] <rant> it pretty much only runs on amd64
1121 [10:02:35] <rant> Win10 IOT on the other hand... will run on arm
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1123 [10:02:52] <rant> but regular Win10 only has support for one arch that I'm aware.
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1125 [10:03:40] <rant> it may technically run on x86 32bit but good luck finding drivers for everything :P
1126 [10:03:55] <annadane> ok ok ok ok ok i get it
1127 [10:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1638
1128 [10:04:02] <annadane> sorry for being prudent :P
1129 [10:04:41] <rant> annadane: na, its a valid point.. but since we've been told (because I asked) that the system is currenly win10.. we can reasonably deduce/assume amd64
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1133 [10:06:46] <dadabidet> I just have to pray that this wifi router will remember my MAC address
1134 [10:07:03] <rant> prior versions of windows especially XP, Vista, or 7 you can't assume.. XP 64 was rare.. but it existed
1135 [10:07:40] <rant> dadabidet: and furthermore that both Win10 and the installer are using the actual hw mac and not randomly generating one
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1138 [10:07:46] <annadane> "debian is the universal OS, you can run it on a toaster" "ok, what's the architecture of the toaster"
1139 [10:08:16] * annadane now wants to actually try installing it on a toaster purely to see if it can be done
1140 [10:08:37] <rant> I haven't used/supported win10 to know if it has a 32bit.. but I do know its so new, pcs which have it also have amd64 instruction sets
1141 [10:08:37] <annadane> assuming the toaster isn't one of the stupid internet of things toasters
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1143 [10:09:19] <rant> heh, yeah.. Win10 IOT DOES run on arm and such
1144 [10:09:38] <dadabidet> I don't know how those evil web login wifi switch work
1145 [10:09:59] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1146 [10:10:00] <rant> its also free as I understand (available at no cost, not libre)
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1148 [10:10:19] <annadane> i'm sure open/netbsd supports toaster installs
1149 [10:10:31] <pvn> Morning, smartd keeps complaining about a failed device, although the device was replaced and is working properly. Is there a way to kind of "reset" smartd [OS debian, "Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS"]?
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1151 [10:10:34] <rant> dadabidet: mine is Comcast's Xfinity Wifi and as long as I dont change my mac address I only have to login once.. it never expires
1152 [10:10:53] <pvn> (sorry for asking this in a debian forum, but I think that the pros are here)
1153 [10:11:11] <annadane> is it ubuntu or debian? ubuntu generally isn't supported here
1154 [10:11:37] <pvn> It is an Ubuntu server, but I think that should not matter...
1155 [10:11:41] <s8548a> sudo works now, I was resetting the VM, a restart command solved.
1156 [10:11:44] <rant> pvn: there is no such thing as debian ubuntu. We do not support ubuntu here.. and generally speaking, no smartd doesnt need reset, your error is likely specific to ubuntu
1157 [10:11:46] <annadane> eh. no comment, i'll let it go
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1159 [10:12:25] <rant> pvn: thus why you should use debian or get support in ubuntu channels.. because they change crap that causes problms like this we dont know about and cannot support
1160 [10:12:33] <pvn> OK, I head over to the "Ubuntu forum", and try my luck there
1161 [10:12:40] <rant> good luck
1162 [10:12:42] <pvn> rant: thx
1163 [10:12:44] <pvn> :)
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1176 [10:30:31] <s8548a> I just finished installing and set it up Debian 9.4 on Virtual Box
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1178 [10:32:08] *** Joins: dadabidet (5e178c66@replaced-ip )
1179 [10:32:19] <dadabidet> well it doesn't boot :(
1180 [10:32:23] <s8548a> now, $ cat /etc/network/interfaces - returns auto lo and iface li inet loopback only
1181 [10:32:46] <annadane> dadabidet, :(, what happens?
1182 [10:32:57] <s8548a> where as I am expecting like-iface ens33 inet dhcp
1183 [10:33:37] <dadabidet> I wrote that netinst with win32 disk imager, but it doesn't boot the installer
1184 [10:33:49] <annadane> doesn't even boot the installer? hmm
1185 [10:33:58] <dadabidet> I wonder if there is something to check in the UEFI bios interface thing
1186 [10:34:03] <s8548a> I am following this guide-replaced-url
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1189 [10:34:29] <dadabidet> like disabling boot signing
1190 [10:34:37] <dadabidet> or secure boot
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1192 [10:34:40] <s8548a> can anybody please help?
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1194 [10:34:58] <annadane> yeah maybe secure boot or something stupid
1195 [10:35:11] <dadabidet> I checked, it it supposed to boot on usb
1196 [10:35:34] <dadabidet> although it was way down
1197 [10:35:48] <dadabidet> maybe should be before hdd
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1199 [10:35:55] <dadabidet> mmmh duh :x
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1218 [10:49:39] <rant> s8548a: help with what? you're ollowing some 3rd party howto.. thats not supported here.. if you have a specific problem related to something in debian you should say what it is
1219 [10:49:57] *** Quits: Nnavd (~Nnavd@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1220 [10:50:00] <rant> like if proprietary 3rd party howto needs libfoo or whatever we can help with that
1221 [10:50:25] <rant> s8548a: as of right now we have no idea what your problem is and nobody will try pry it out of you
1222 [10:51:32] <rant> s8548a: alternatively you can back up to beore you decided to do all this, tell us what you're trying to accomplish and we can offer you a possible debian supported way of doing it
1223 [10:51:44] <s8548a> Ok, I agree on that 3rd party guide and sorry.
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1226 [10:52:02] <Sri_Designer> s8548a do this: $ sudo shutdown -r now
1227 [10:52:05] <rant> s8548a: I'm not tryin to be a dick, I'm just telling you this is why nobody will respond
1228 [10:52:17] <rant> Sri_Designer: please do not tell people to do things like that in here
1229 [10:52:18] <Sri_Designer> when the machine is turned on again, do this: $ ip addr
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1231 [10:52:32] <Sri_Designer> and this: $ cat /etc/resolv.conf
1232 [10:52:39] *** Joins: pnepe6 (~pnepe6@replaced-ip )
1233 [10:52:45] <Sri_Designer> to test the network: $ ping -c 4 replaced-url
1234 [10:52:56] <Sri_Designer> that's all, debian or not debian.
1235 [10:53:04] <rant> you are going to length to debug a network issue without knowing what the issue is
1236 [10:53:13] <Sri_Designer> rant what is the problem, kind sir?
1237 [10:53:15] <s8548a> I am a windows user and trying to use a webserver based application called PartKeepr
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1239 [10:53:34] <Sri_Designer> rant i want him to do the basics, from clean start. are you a fascist/
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1241 [10:53:55] <s8548a> got installed Debian 9.4 on virtualbox and trying to setup the network interface
1242 [10:54:20] <Sri_Designer> s8548a most likelyyour virtual machineis misconfigured. the networking is not set to be transparent
1243 [10:54:42] <s8548a> current settings-replaced-url
1244 [10:55:58] <Sri_Designer> that'snot enough information. you need to look at your vm's settings for network adapter: it should be naked, as in visible to the local netwrok and dhcp configurable like any local host.
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1246 [10:56:09] <Sri_Designer> if you don't understand this, you should not be doing this.
1247 [10:56:19] <s8548a> 1 moment
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1250 [10:58:05] <rant> this is not always true.. on a local home network you can bridge, sure.. but if you were connected to an ISP directly they may only give you one IP for example, so you'd want NAT not bridged
1251 [10:59:10] <Sri_Designer> i would think his local network is already taking care of that, so why are you making this onerous. it is clear as day this is a basic newbie at home.
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1254 [11:01:06] <s8548a> ip addr and cat /etc/resolv.conf results
1255 [11:01:44] <s8548a> replaced-url
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1257 [11:01:54] <rmrfchik> Hi, i
1258 [11:02:06] <s8548a> I will try with bridge adaptor
1259 [11:02:34] <Sri_Designer> s8548a congrats. you have local loop and an external interface, configured and working, and hte DNS is returning working values. you should have net.
1260 [11:02:58] <rmrfchik> Hi, i'm running debian on Intel NUK with "Intel Corporation Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display (rev 0e) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])"
1261 [11:03:27] *** Quits: foka (~foka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1262 [11:03:41] <rmrfchik> xserver-xorg-video-intel states that it shouldn't be used with cards late 2007 (which is my case)
1263 [11:03:55] <rmrfchik> but xserver-xorg requires any video driver
1264 [11:04:15] <rmrfchik> what should I install as xorg-driver-video?
1265 [11:05:17] <s8548a> Sri_Designer:Thanks, but with this setup, will the webserver is accessible by localhost method?
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1269 [11:07:25] <Sri_Designer> which? local loop is agnostic as far as bridging the other interface goes.
1270 [11:07:31] <Sri_Designer> the two are completely separate.
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1275 [11:09:17] <s8548a> ok, I will install the rest of the things and will update.
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1277 [11:09:23] <s8548a> thanks again.
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1282 [11:10:18] <Sri_Designer> s8548a you are welcome.
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1324 [11:25:45] <rant> rmrfchik: you should use lspci -nn because that inormation is usually not sufficient to answer the question of what is supported or not. its the vend/prod id codes that matter
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1326 [11:25:55] <dooteo> Hi all,
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1330 [11:26:23] <rant> drivers don't claime devices based on their name because different hardware can have the same name
1331 [11:26:37] <dooteo> As I wrote last night, I'm trying to install Debian's netboot against a Ftp local mirror
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1333 [11:27:11] <rant> dooteo: you want to PXE boot over FTP?
1334 [11:27:20] <dooteo> at mirror section I set: mirror/ftp/hostname string user:passwd@192.168.0.254
1335 [11:27:30] <dooteo> rant: yep!
1336 [11:27:45] <rmrfchik> rant, 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display [8086:0f31] (rev 0e
1337 [11:27:59] <dooteo> error say: mirror does not supoprt the specified release
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1341 [11:29:55] <dooteo> as far as I found in some forums, seems to be a DNS issue. There is no DNS server
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1344 [11:30:57] <dooteo> neither a HTTP server
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1347 [11:31:24] <rant> rmrfchik: replaced-url
1348 [11:31:25] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1349 [11:31:42] <rant> rmrfchik: do you have an xlog or some kind of error?
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1355 [11:35:46] <r00t3xpl0it3r> hi
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1357 [11:38:42] <petn-randall> hi r00t3xpl0it3r
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1359 [11:39:18] <BanHammor> i'd say that name is tacky, but i've literally had this one since i was 13 :D
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1363 [11:40:40] <rant> rmrfchik: because that is supported by the kernel i915 driver and then should be supported by xorg-video-intel because that xorg driver works with i915
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1367 [11:44:09] <jelly> rant: right now the recommended xorg driver for intel gpus is video-modesetting, not video-intel
1368 [11:44:41] <rant> recommend schmecommended :P point is if there is an actual issue here I haven't seen it yet
1369 [11:45:00] <petn-randall> xorg-video-intel is apparently deprecated, but upstream is still merging patches, and for me it's the only thing that worked without screen tearing.
1370 [11:45:02] <rant> idk how to support what I can't see
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1372 [11:45:36] <rant> I was just pointing out as I always do, that when people come in here for hardware support issues we need the actual hw ids, not just the name
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1377 [11:48:27] <rmrfchik> rant, there are no errors, all works fine. I just curious, because package xserver-xorg-video-intel states "The use of this driver is discouraged if your hw is new enough"
1378 [11:48:52] <rmrfchik> rant, And I wonder what is best way
1379 [11:49:46] <rant> rmrfchik: I'm of the mind if it ain't broke dont fix it :P but apparently on the xorg side intel doesnt need a special driver anymore
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1382 [11:51:11] <rant> however I see no modesetting in stretch
1383 [11:51:24] <rant> ,v xserver-xorg-video-modesetting
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1385 [11:51:25] <judd> Package: xserver-xorg-video-modesetting on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.3.0-1; jessie: 0.9.0-2
1386 [11:51:56] <rant> so idk about what jelly just said, maybe jelly can elaborate
1387 [11:53:44] <petn-randall> xserver-xorg-video-modesetting is part of one of the core packages now.
1388 [11:54:06] <rant> petn-randall: you know how this user would go about using it over video-intel to test it?
1389 [11:54:29] <petn-randall> stretch: Virtual package provided by: xserver-xorg-core
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1391 [11:54:47] <petn-randall> rant: I tried, and only got screen tearing on videos, so I switched back.
1392 [11:55:03] <petn-randall> I'm sure there's a way, but it's not high on my priority list to get it to work.
1393 [11:55:08] <rant> petn-randall: yes but how.. just make a conf.d with Driver "modesetting" ?
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1395 [11:55:45] <petn-randall> rant: IIRC just removign video-intel should make it switch to the other.
1396 [11:55:52] <rant> ah
1397 [11:56:59] <rant> rmrfchik: you could try either of those methods.. making a xorg.conf.d file or just removevev the intel driver package
1398 [11:57:09] <rant> but I persosonally would lleave it alone if itt works
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1425 [12:12:09] <BlackBishop> anyone using NUT can tell me how I could get information from an APC ups ( like I did with apcaccess ) ?
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1433 [12:21:01] <Fiacha> Hi, I want to run a script that takes a while and then reboots at some point. To avoid the (putty) ssh session from hanging on reboot, i want to exit it in the script. I found killing the parent id works for that. To execute the reboot script i use nohup. The problem is that the kill following nohup also seems to terminate the unfinished nohup (at least the reboot script does not get executed). Help?
1434 [12:23:30] <blackflow> Fiacha: reboot && exit not working?
1435 [12:23:59] <Fiacha> blackflow: exit within a script only exits the script
1436 [12:24:40] <Fiacha> script && exit would work but then i need to tell the user to do that...
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1438 [12:24:44] <blackflow> ah, well... Debian should _really_ fix that annoying bug.
1439 [12:24:45] <petn-randall> Fiacha: If set up correctly, your sshd will terminate the session cleanly when shutting down.
1440 [12:25:11] <ibr2> hey guys, is there any good channels that discuss pentesting related stuff?
1441 [12:25:12] <Fiacha> petn-randall: apperently it's not properly set up and i don't have control over that ;-)
1442 [12:25:20] <petn-randall> Fiacha: You need "UsePAM yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config, and libpam-systemd installed.
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1445 [12:25:46] <abrotman> ibr2: /msg alis help
1446 [12:26:25] <Fiacha> petn-randall: it's an arm debian stripped down to run on the bare minimum, i can't install anything
1447 [12:26:49] <blackflow> Fiacha: oh wait, now I remember... systemd-pam something something, install that, and ssh sessions will gracefully terminate
1448 [12:27:14] <petn-randall> Fiacha: Not even 188 KB?
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1450 [12:27:52] <blackflow> Fiacha: found it. libpam-systemd needs to be installed.
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1453 [12:28:49] <annadane> "something something" isn't a package? :(
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1455 [12:29:23] <Fiacha> petn-randall: dpkg -l |grep libpam-systemd shows nothing so it is not installed? (not sure how to check if it is installed)
1456 [12:30:02] <petn-randall> blackflow: I already mentioned that, and also the config fix. :)
1457 [12:30:23] <petn-randall> Fiacha: 'apt-cache policy libpam-systemd', but that method also works.
1458 [12:30:24] <Fiacha> blackflow: it's an embeeded system and even though i could setup apt to work, i want to to be able to be run on any of theses devices even offline (so without installing anything)
1459 [12:30:42] <petn-randall> or rather just 'dpkg -l libpam-systemd'.
1460 [12:31:36] <blackflow> petn-randall: ah sorry then. need moar coffee ;)
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1464 [12:31:54] <Fiacha> petn-randall: thanks for that, good to know but it's not installed (installed (none))
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1466 [12:32:33] <blackflow> Fiacha: right, so you set it up properly in advance. systemd-pam integration is definitely the solution, rather than having to write some convoluted scripting shenanigans
1467 [12:32:36] <ibr2> hey guys, is there any good channels that discuss pentesting related stuff?
1468 [12:32:46] <petn-randall> Fiacha: You could add it though, then you'd have the clean and 100% sure way that would work. You can of course try to build your own solution.
1469 [12:32:55] <petn-randall> ibr2: abrotman already answered to you.
1470 [12:33:06] <petn-randall> ibr2: /msg alis help
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1472 [12:34:28] <Fiacha> ok, i will try to get them to add it to the factory image. I couldn't get screen to be added so my hopes are not high...
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1475 [12:36:31] <Fiacha> (and this is a system that has no video output, only serial/ssh, and we need serial to set it up, and it includes no xmodem etc. I needed to base64 decode and gunzip input via serial to transfer files... screen would have helped (>_<)
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1478 [12:37:22] <Fiacha> But thank you. I will test it to see if I can get it to work and then make my case.
1479 [12:37:39] <Fiacha> Thanks for the info about libpam-systemd
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1487 [12:42:07] <petn-randall> Fiacha: Can you test your image building steps in a VM?
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1498 [12:49:36] <DeathTickle> hi all, I have an lxc unprivileged debian container running. All works fine so far. I installed nodejs from backports in it, try running console.log and I get no output. Though when I create a user account and run node as that user I get the console.log output
1499 [12:49:43] <DeathTickle> anyone know what could be causing this ?
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1501 [12:51:16] <DeathTickle> and as root in the container I can't get the REPL wheras as another user I get the REPL
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1504 [12:52:22] <rmrfchik> petn-randall, hmm, I see virtual xserver-xorg-video-modesetting is installed (as provided by xserver-xorg-core), but xserver-xorg-core still requires any of xorg-driver-video
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1510 [12:54:05] <petn-randall> rmrfchik: It doesn't in stable. Which release are you running?
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1512 [12:54:49] <rmrfchik> petn-randall, unstable (as usual I do since 1997 ;)
1513 [12:55:03] <petn-randall> !debian-next
1514 [12:55:04] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
1515 [12:55:14] <petn-randall> rmrfchik: In that case, try asking in the testing/sid support channel. ^^^^
1516 [12:55:20] <rmrfchik> thanks
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1518 [12:55:35] <annadane> except uh... right now that may not be possible
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1521 [12:55:41] <annadane> oh wait no, should be
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1524 [12:56:36] <petn-randall> annadane: Works fine here, I'm in. :)
1525 [12:56:48] <annadane> yeah i'm just barred from #debian-offtopic
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1539 [13:03:43] <Eryn_1983_FL> hi peeps
1540 [13:03:45] <Eryn_1983_FL> how is it going
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1544 [13:04:49] <annadane> i am a zombie after like 17 hours of IRC but can probably help you with whatever technical questions
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1547 [13:05:39] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok
1548 [13:05:56] <Eryn_1983_FL> so I got this wild idea of swapping out my full desktop linux machine for a Pi
1549 [13:06:23] <Eryn_1983_FL> and using the maachine for Everquest play and the pi for linux desktop and using a kvm to swap between.
1550 [13:06:51] <Eryn_1983_FL> am I nuts? will it support thunderbird firefox, and kodi at once?
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1552 [13:07:05] <BanHammor> do you have a Pi on hand?
1553 [13:07:09] <Eryn_1983_FL> no
1554 [13:07:16] <Eryn_1983_FL> the ones i got have a duty atm
1555 [13:07:27] <Eryn_1983_FL> its like 14$ vs 600$
1556 [13:07:32] <Eryn_1983_FL> for another pc
1557 [13:07:35] <annadane> my intuitive guess is "no" but i really have no idea
1558 [13:07:38] <petn-randall> Eryn_1983_FL: Well, you get what you pay for.
1559 [13:07:43] <Eryn_1983_FL> mmhmmm
1560 [13:07:53] <bogus-> so you have a working pc now?
1561 [13:07:54] <petn-randall> Eryn_1983_FL: Don't expect youtube to run fluenty, or other things on a RPi3.
1562 [13:07:54] <BanHammor> it's got a weak mobile-style CPU without a build in cooler
1563 [13:07:58] <BanHammor> so it throttles
1564 [13:08:08] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah i am thinking i would have to network my hdds
1565 [13:08:13] <Eryn_1983_FL> hmm ok,
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1567 [13:08:34] <bogus-> I bought a second hand thinkpad for a comparable idea
1568 [13:08:40] <BanHammor> if you're using FF i think it won't use the hardware H264 decoder so get ready for STELLAR PERFORMANCE
1569 [13:08:41] <bogus-> that works quite well ;-)
1570 [13:09:11] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah yeah i am just going to find another desktop and get a kvm,
1571 [13:09:13] * annadane feels like the last person in the world using a desktop for personal use and not a laptop
1572 [13:09:15] <bogus-> you can get something like a thinkpad x240 for 250 euro's
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1574 [13:09:30] <Eryn_1983_FL> i dont like thinkpads they look ugly
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1576 [13:09:40] <BanHammor> and pi doesn't? :D
1577 [13:09:47] <Eryn_1983_FL> their tiny and cute..
1578 [13:09:47] <annadane> also my desk is an absolute mess and does not fit a laptop at all
1579 [13:09:49] <bogus-> they look beautifulL!
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1582 [13:10:08] <dgp> Get one of the odroid boards if you want something fast
1583 [13:10:16] <bogus-> annadane: no youi're not. I use my desktop all the time
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1585 [13:10:25] <Eryn_1983_FL> odroid?
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1587 [13:10:39] <dgp> replaced-url
1588 [13:11:12] <Eryn_1983_FL> i see them on amazon
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1595 [13:12:52] <dgp> The rpi stuff overhyped garbage really. The odroid stuff is a bit more expensive but is solid and the xu4 board is fast for an ARM.
1596 [13:13:21] <dgp> If you don't mind garbage get one of the orangepi boards for the same price as the rpi, run real debian on it and have twice as many cores
1597 [13:13:59] <BanHammor> rpi still has more of a community, i think
1598 [13:14:56] <dgp> BanHammor: A community of people that screech "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREENz!" and have almost no clue about anything technical
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1600 [13:15:11] <Eryn_1983_FL> well i am not runing games, but thunderbird, firefox and want to watch movies through it
1601 [13:15:20] <Eryn_1983_FL> so would recommend the odroid for that dgp?
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1603 [13:15:39] <Eryn_1983_FL> If i needed to do like cad i would swap to the desktop dualboot
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1605 [13:16:15] <dgp> Eryn_1983_FL: AFAIK their amlogic based boards have working video acceleration for h264 but make sure you check
1606 [13:16:23] <BanHammor> Eryn_1983_FL, if you're still keeping your PC...why are you doing this?
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1609 [13:16:46] <dgp> hardware decoding on ARM generally means being stuck to a kernel that's at least a year out of date
1610 [13:17:00] <Eryn_1983_FL> desktop is going to be on windows most of the time, playing EQ
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1612 [13:17:29] <Eryn_1983_FL> its either A two desktops one windows and one linux, i build a table or find one to put it on i got no room under,
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1615 [13:17:41] <Eryn_1983_FL> or B i get a pi /kvm i can mount on wall.
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1617 [13:17:57] <Eryn_1983_FL> and run desktop linux on that and windows machine is the other desktop on floor
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1619 [13:18:03] <Eryn_1983_FL> understand
1620 [13:18:19] <BanHammor> or you could run thunderbird and firefox and movies from your windows installation?
1621 [13:18:27] <Eryn_1983_FL> nooo
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1623 [13:18:34] <Eryn_1983_FL> its just for game
1624 [13:18:40] <BanHammor> or vice versa, wine that everquest
1625 [13:18:42] <Eryn_1983_FL> not moving back to windows screw that
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1627 [13:18:49] <Eryn_1983_FL> it doesnt work/work well ban
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1629 [13:18:53] <Eryn_1983_FL> I tried and tried and cried
1630 [13:19:05] <Eryn_1983_FL> got to have directX or whatever
1631 [13:19:16] <Eryn_1983_FL> i cant even do a virtualmachine
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1633 [13:19:42] <Eryn_1983_FL> they got that locked out even with the video accecration from the houst machine
1634 [13:20:44] <BanHammor> you can even VM linux if you want to
1635 [13:20:55] <BanHammor> will probably be as fast as running it on an ARM board
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1637 [13:21:19] <Eryn_1983_FL> thats like giving up on my desktop
1638 [13:21:21] <Eryn_1983_FL> for linux
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1641 [13:22:53] <Eryn_1983_FL> I think kvm+ a high small table so i put it above the servers, with airflow,
1642 [13:23:00] <Eryn_1983_FL> then another desktop for linux,
1643 [13:23:07] <Eryn_1983_FL> i want my performance
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1645 [13:24:28] <BanHammor> then you absolutely should stay away from tiny SoC boards :P
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1652 [13:29:50] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah
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1656 [13:33:13] <hypercore> why is /var/replaced-url
1657 [13:33:20] <clemens3_> I am trying to make rpi my desktop
1658 [13:33:22] <clemens3_> but
1659 [13:33:46] <clemens3_> yeah, is slow.. and I think I had a bad usb hub that fried 2 external disks
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1661 [13:34:17] <clemens3_> most people do some other projects with it than desktop..
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1663 [13:34:44] <clemens3_> i am in the process of compiling everything myself, takes a long time.. but this time I hope I get X completed at least..
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1734 [14:25:01] <rant> Eryn_1983_FL: you ever tried Crossover? Thats what I use for directx
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1740 [14:28:57] <rant> Eryn_1983_FL: that thing you mentioned Everquest, and Everquest II hav 4/5 stars on Crossover
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1742 [14:29:16] <rant> reported to work with or without steam
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1753 [14:40:15] <pineiden> the are someone that knows how to use dbus?
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1764 [14:46:12] <rant> probably a lot of people know how to use dbus or else so much software wouldnt have been programmed around it
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1766 [14:47:39] <pineiden> i hace a question, to define a "system" dbus channel, when o where i have to do that?
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1781 [14:57:03] <rant> pineiden: you could try #dbus perhaps
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1805 [15:14:20] <darxmurf> damn, I still have this weird problem with mount.cifs of windows 10 shares !
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1807 [15:14:51] <darxmurf> when I force a SMB protocol version higher than 1.0, some folders are not listed in my mount Oo
1808 [15:15:10] <darxmurf> but if I cd in this folder, I can enter it and list files
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1811 [15:18:38] <darxmurf> why the hell everything is listed with vers=1.0 and not higher ?
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1850 [15:35:17] <hypercore> guys i'm trying to integrate drone with gitea, but the webhook gives gitea a url of localhost:8000 instead of mywebsite.com
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1859 [15:40:55] <darxmurf> Ha, they are also talking about this samba issue on ubuntu but report system... and they are more active than debian... :-x
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1864 [15:43:22] <tw> it's probably a bug in the kernel driver because smb2/3 has never been default.
1865 [15:43:36] <tw> (until recently?)
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1867 [15:44:52] <darxmurf> it looks like yes
1868 [15:45:13] <darxmurf> I opened this debian bug report for the cifs-utils package but it's maybe not the correct place
1869 [15:45:18] <darxmurf> replaced-url
1870 [15:45:19] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1871 [15:45:50] <darxmurf> the issue is pretty sneaky
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1874 [15:46:58] <darxmurf> should I ask to move this bug on the kernel side ?
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1931 [16:16:57] <Walakea> is there any danger in having 2 Debian versions installed on separate partitions but sharing /home directory?
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1933 [16:17:20] <darxmurf> I would say yes
1934 [16:17:45] <darxmurf> like a mess in your .config folder and packages conf
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1937 [16:18:37] <Walakea> but having a different user would avoid this, right?
1938 [16:18:47] <darxmurf> yep
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1940 [16:19:56] <darxmurf> week-end time, see you folks
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1949 [16:27:10] <petn-randall> Walakea: It will probably mostly work, but will break when e.g. firefox updates the sqlite database layout in the ~/.mozilla/ directory, and the older Firefox version can't cope with it.
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1957 [16:31:34] <joejoejoe> Hello! How do I get the update widget thing that tells me if my computer is up to date?
1958 [16:31:55] <petn-randall> joejoejoe: which OS release and Desktop do you have?
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1961 [16:32:23] <joejoejoe> petn-randall: Debian 9 and Mate.
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1971 [16:33:57] <petn-randall> joejoejoe: I believe you can install gnome-packagekit and it will give you such a thing.
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1973 [16:34:12] <Walakea> do i "cp" installable iso images into the /dev/sdb or /media/....? (it is a usb drive)
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1976 [16:34:54] <joejoejoe> petn-randall: Let me try that...
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1987 [16:36:41] <joejoejoe> Oh no, now I think its update-notofier ...
1988 [16:37:08] <joejoejoe> Too late, packagekit already installlllling...
1989 [16:37:23] <toruvinn> Walakea, probably to the device if you want to boot from it.
1990 [16:37:55] <toruvinn> Walakea, assuming /media/ means "if i mount it there". no, dont mount your usb flash drive, just copy the hybrid iso to the device.
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1992 [16:38:05] * joejoejoe wonders what he just installed...
1993 [16:38:07] <toruvinn> obviously bear in mind you're erasing everything on the flash drive...
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2000 [16:39:21] <Walakea> toruvinn: yes
2001 [16:39:35] <petn-randall> Walakea: You cp it to /dev/sdb, after you double-checked that it's your USB drive and not any other. It also has to be unmounted.
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2004 [16:40:03] <petn-randall> Walakea: That means, if you have a /dev/sdb1 mounted to /media/foo/, you need to umount that first.
2005 [16:41:28] <Walakea> i think i have it unmounted (i use GUI), but when i try to cp, it says:
2006 [16:41:28] <Walakea> cp: cannot create regular file '/dev/sdb': No medium found
2007 [16:41:47] <petn-randall> Walakea: What is the exact command you're running?
2008 [16:41:56] <Walakea> sudo cp firmware-buster-DI-alpha3-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdb; sync
2009 [16:42:20] <petn-randall> Walakea: And you checked that /dev/sdb is your thumb drive? Because that error message says you didn't.
2010 [16:42:31] <toruvinn> Walakea, i didnt ask questions. ;-)
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2014 [16:43:29] <Walakea> Gnome disks states that there is a USB, does not state details (because it is unmounted), but says: Device: /dev/sdb
2015 [16:43:44] <toruvinn> petn-randall, well kinda glad it's that kind of error message, not another one once he reboots ;-D
2016 [16:43:57] <Walakea> maybe i should umount it via terminal?
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2018 [16:44:03] <toruvinn> Walakea, be extremely careful when handling raw /dev/xxx block devices.
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2020 [16:44:17] <toruvinn> it's super-easy to overwrite your... whatever drive.
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2023 [16:45:59] <petn-randall> Walakea: what does `ls /dev/sd*` return?
2024 [16:46:02] <Walakea> i probably fixed it
2025 [16:46:46] <Walakea> sda's and sdb's
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2027 [16:47:03] <petn-randall> ... and the exact output?
2028 [16:47:28] <Walakea> doesn't matter, i just plugged the USB again and ran "cp", now i have it
2029 [16:48:10] <Walakea> although i am still not sure about the automatic mounting when in GUI
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2141 [17:55:47] <pytto> hi guys
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2143 [17:57:10] <jelly> hi gal
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2178 [18:04:06] <james1138> Question. How does a person add ClamAv PPA and GUFW/UFW PPA to debian repositories? With all the talk in the media about breaches - I like to keep the most up-to-date on the antivirus and Firewall.
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2206 [18:08:12] <petn-randall> james1138: You don't add PPAs to Debian.
2207 [18:08:14] <petn-randall> !ppa
2208 [18:08:14] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
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2212 [18:09:08] <petn-randall> james1138: clamav is quite mediocre at finding malware for windows. If you really depend on it, I'd use some tool from other vendors, probably not FOSS.
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2276 [18:09:52] <petn-randall> james1138: Also both clamav and gufw are in Debian stable, no need for a PPA.
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2283 [18:11:39] <james1138> Petn-randall... what do you suggest instead of ClamAv? I also installed ClamFS for file scanning. I heard about Avast but Firefox & Thunderbird appear to have plugins with work with ClamAv
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2286 [18:12:09] <petn-randall> james1138: Why do you need plugins for firefox? clamav is only good at finding Windows malware.
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2291 [18:13:09] <petn-randall> james1138: On Windows your first line of defense may be antivirus, on Linux it's applying security updates in a timely manner, privilege seperation, firewalls and MAC (selinux/apparmor).
2292 [18:13:26] <petn-randall> james1138: IMHO if you find malware with a scanner, it's already too late.
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2362 [18:16:35] <james1138> I also have Wine installed to play some of my older Windows games. Antivirus is just playing safe.
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2364 [18:17:08] <petn-randall> james1138: I'd say antivirus is irrelevant for Linux.
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2366 [18:17:17] <petn-randall> (and a waste of time, IMHO)
2367 [18:17:23] <Sleaker> james1138: having wine doesn't mean anything.
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2378 [18:17:55] <jelly> ,v clamav
2379 [18:17:56] <judd> Package: clamav on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.99+dfsg-0+deb7u2; jessie-updates: 0.99.2+dfsg-0+deb8u3; stretch-updates: 0.99.2+dfsg-6+deb9u1; wheezy-security: 0.99.4+dfsg-1+deb7u1; stretch: 0.99.4+dfsg-1+deb9u1; jessie: 0.100.0+dfsg-0+deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 0.100.0+dfsg-0+deb9u1; buster: 0.100.0+dfsg-1+b2; sid: 0.100.0+dfsg-1+b2
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2383 [18:18:23] <jelly> so even oldstable has latest clamav
2384 [18:18:30] <karlpinc> james1138: If you really want to lock it down turn on selinux. Also make sure you don't allow passwordless sudo. (Or don't even use sudo, and don't allow root to ssh in. That way 2 sets of credentials are required to be root.)
2385 [18:18:33] <Sleaker> what's the best way to get my gpg key available for a kickstart CD that I'm building myself?
2386 [18:18:35] <james1138> Thanks Judd!
2387 [18:18:39] <jelly> (but stable does not, yet, eh)
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2391 [18:19:19] <hassoon> ow the usb mouse is not working how can i make it work
2392 [18:19:21] <Sleaker> in the past I've been using ubuntu discs and I'm swapping over to debian for this next release. on ubuntu I had been rebuilding the ubuntu-keyring and including my own key in it, but not sure that's the best solution to start with
2393 [18:19:21] <karlpinc> james1138: Once you detect something malicious on your system it's time to re-install and restore (data only!) from a backup.
2394 [18:19:27] <jelly> karlpinc: uh, are selinux policies usable these days
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2399 [18:20:53] <petn-randall> apparmor is kinda usable on testing/sid.
2400 [18:20:54] <karlpinc> jelly: I don't find selinux very useable at all. The one time I turned it on it took forever messing around with it. I can't speak to the current state of the selinux policies. But, it does "work", and really well if you mess with it long enough.
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2402 [18:21:05] <jelly> Sleaker: kickstart CD?
2403 [18:21:21] <petn-randall> Isn't kickstart something from redhat/centos?
2404 [18:21:29] <jelly> or Amiga
2405 [18:21:29] <Sleaker> jelly: preseeded ISO disc with a self-signed key.
2406 [18:21:37] <Sleaker> petn-randall: nah, debian uses the term too
2407 [18:21:49] <Sleaker> it's in the self-creation disc docs somewhere
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2409 [18:22:00] <Sleaker> but same concept. I generate my own disc from my own repositories.
2410 [18:22:08] <Sleaker> they use my local gpg key.
2411 [18:22:18] <Sleaker> what's the best awy to get the debian-installer to recognize my key?
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2414 [18:22:35] <Sleaker> rebuild debian-archive-keyring with my key, or is there some other facility for this?
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2417 [18:23:07] <jelly> no, just slip a keyring file in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ somehow
2418 [18:23:31] <Sleaker> oh in the initrd.
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2420 [18:23:59] <Sleaker> it needs to be available in the target though for apt to work doesn't it?
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2426 [18:25:17] <jelly> I don't know where d-i gets its keyrings from, but as far as the target is concerned, make sure your own sleaker-archive-keyring deb gets installed
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2428 [18:25:56] <jelly> if things are sane, maybe there's an udeb as well
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2430 [18:26:13] <Sleaker> jelly: debs don't get installed until after system setup initially. the d-i wont even recognize the apt-archive if the key isn't in the keyring before it starts the initial check
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2435 [18:26:29] <Sleaker> in the past I've modified the distros base udeb basically.
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2439 [18:26:46] <Sleaker> I probably just don't understand the order that d-i is loading udebs vs normal debs
2440 [18:26:46] <jelly> Sleaker: yes, but you'll still want to have it after the base install is finished, too
2441 [18:26:51] <Sleaker> right
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2444 [18:27:05] <Sleaker> my first issue is that it's not even available in the base installer atm.
2445 [18:27:07] <fly_agaric> hello guys, a question about ssl certificates. is it possible to have 2 different ssl wildcard certificates which are holding the same wildcard domain?
2446 [18:27:15] <Sleaker> I already have it installed in other packages.
2447 [18:27:38] <jelly> Sleaker: perhaps ask in #debian-boot over on irc.oftc.net
2448 [18:27:47] <Sleaker> cool, thanks jelly
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2450 [18:27:55] <jelly> that's the d-i people channel\
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2454 [18:28:24] <blackflow> fly_agaric: technically yes, if by certificates you mean a set of key + crt files
2455 [18:28:32] <jelly> fly_agaric: it's possible to have a zillion cert+key pairs with same CN and SAN, sure, why not
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2460 [18:29:07] <fly_agaric> okay because i always though you can only have one wildcard ssl cert with for example *.test.com
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2464 [18:29:18] <fly_agaric> because today i found two
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2469 [18:29:33] <fly_agaric> with different serial numbers but both are working
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2474 [18:29:51] <petn-randall> fly_agaric: How would certificate rollovers work if you could only have one?
2475 [18:30:04] <jelly> very, very quickly!
2476 [18:30:11] <jelly> and precisely!
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2482 [18:30:26] <petn-randall> fly_agaric: A CA can sign an arbitrary amount of certificates, nothing is stopping them.
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2488 [18:30:51] <jelly> and you can be a CA if you want to.
2489 [18:30:52] <petn-randall> fly_agaric: Only thing a site admin can do against it is use HPKP for HTTPS.
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2498 [18:32:12] <jelly> (well that's not the ONLY thing; there's DNS CAA, there's DANE, and other stuff)
2499 [18:32:14] <karlpinc> fly_agaric: You can also setup a CAA DNS record to provide controls which legitimate CAs will follow.
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2503 [18:32:55] <fly_agaric> okay but technically one certificate would be enough? iam I right here?
2504 [18:33:04] <fly_agaric> i mean if i have pub + key
2505 [18:33:06] <petn-randall> jelly: Oh right, I always forget about those.
2506 [18:33:15] <fly_agaric> i can use it on every webserver
2507 [18:33:29] <petn-randall> fly_agaric: It wouldn't be good practice IMO, but yes.
2508 [18:33:35] <jelly> petn-randall: so does the CA industry, esp. DANE which would kill their business
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2512 [18:33:56] <karlpinc> There's also letsencrypt.org.
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2514 [18:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1599
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2516 [18:34:23] <jelly> yes, all the fashionable botnets have valid, working LE certs
2517 [18:34:51] <blackflow> CAA is just a hint. rogue/evil CAs can ignore it.
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2520 [18:35:33] <jelly> whether it's a hint or enforced depends completely on the client
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2533 [18:40:09] <petn-randall> jelly: CAA should only be parsed by CAs, not clients.
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2540 [18:44:07] <jelly> ah
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2550 [18:53:06] <hejux> ls
2551 [18:53:09] <hejux> clear
2552 [18:53:52] *** Parts: hejux (~justin@replaced-ip ) ()
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2556 [18:56:15] <petn-randall> wait, this isn't google
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2570 [19:04:46] <buu> There's no way debian/kernel is involved in setting the link speed for a pcie device right??
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2572 [19:05:16] <petn-randall> buu: Sounds like a XY problem to me.
2573 [19:05:36] <buu> Yes but the X is really complicated
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2576 [19:06:34] <buu> LnkSta: Speed 2.5GT/s, Width x4, TrErr- Train- SlotClk+ DLActive- BWMgmt- ABWMgmt-
2577 [19:06:46] <buu> This is supposed to be an x8 at 5GT/s
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2579 [19:07:27] <buu> Or, well, anything faster than 2.5
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2597 [19:10:16] <petn-randall> buu: So you which part is supposed to go at 5GT/s? The slot or the PCIe card?
2598 [19:10:32] <buu> the card
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2600 [19:10:44] <buu> the slot should be a pcie3.0 8x
2601 [19:10:46] <buu> at least
2602 [19:10:54] <buu> replaced-url
2603 [19:11:01] <buu> I'm perplexed.
2604 [19:11:48] <petn-randall> Speed 2.5GT/s, Width x4
2605 [19:12:12] <petn-randall> buu: Sounds like the slot doesn't carry the full width. ^^^
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2612 [19:14:24] <buu> petn-randall: shouldn't 4x pcie2 be .. 10GT/s?
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2615 [19:15:23] <buu> Oh wait that makes sense
2616 [19:15:45] <buu> I'm going to go look at the actual box, 'm bored of guessing
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2621 [19:19:57] <petn-randall> buu: Note that many mobos have slots that physically fit 8x, but are only electrically wired for 4x. Just for example.
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2625 [19:21:20] <jelly> even on slots kind-of-dedicated for GPU?
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2631 [19:22:37] <petn-randall> There's usually only one slot that handles the full speed of that gen. That's what I saw on many desktop machines.
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2648 [19:33:35] <buu> petn-randall: It claims to support many slots
2649 [19:33:38] <buu> But I'm a little confused.
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2652 [19:34:14] <buu> 40-Lane CPU-
2653 [19:34:15] <buu> 5 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16, x16/x16, x16/x16/x8, x8/x8/x16/x8, x8/x8/x8/x8/x8 mode) *1
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2670 [19:50:51] <`Kevin> buu: mobo model specs?
2671 [19:50:54] <`Kevin> + cpu
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2673 [19:51:56] <RoyK> smells like supermicro ;)
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2676 [19:52:19] <buu> I solved it, but thanks
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2678 [19:53:29] *** Joins: acidtripper (~gonza@replaced-ip )
2679 [19:53:33] <acidtripper> Hi
2680 [19:53:47] <acidtripper> isn't a silly thing to ask for internet connection when installing wlan firmware?
2681 [19:54:09] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip )
2682 [19:54:10] <acidtripper> isn't a silly and RMS suck to don't include firmware's as time ago did?
2683 [19:54:19] <greycat> Usually you install with an ethernet cable, or you download the non-free firmware installer image.
2684 [19:54:50] <greycat> Debian is committed to not having non-free software/firmware/microcode in its base system. If that's a problem for you, there are other Linuxes out there.
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2687 [19:55:13] <acidtripper> isn't a silly thing to dont include vi, vim, cfdisk and other needed packages in install iso?
2688 [19:55:31] <acidtripper> i think debian is taking such a stupid route last years
2689 [19:55:34] <greycat> *plonk*
2690 [19:55:48] <rant> acidtripper: do you actually need support with something? or could you possibly tell me how much wood a woodchuch chucked if a woodchuck chucked wood?
2691 [19:55:52] *** Quits: z8z (~x@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting)
2692 [19:56:00] <greycat> He's just here to troll.
2693 [19:56:18] <rant> greycat: and aren't you an operator again?
2694 [19:56:41] *** Quits: RTZ0x859 (~element@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2695 [19:56:47] <acidtripper> i think this kind of things must be taken into account
2696 [19:56:50] <acidtripper> in debates
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2698 [19:57:04] <rant> acidtripper: this is not a debating channel, its a support channel
2699 [19:57:05] <acidtripper> its incredible to include graphic installer
2700 [19:57:16] <acidtripper> and not including cfdisk for example
2701 [19:57:17] <acidtripper> or vim
2702 [19:57:19] <acidtripper> vi
2703 [19:57:24] *** Quits: buu (~buu@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2704 [19:57:45] <acidtripper> not including firmware necessary to start wifi
2705 [19:57:50] <acidtripper> in 2018
2706 [19:58:00] <acidtripper> having in stable a vulnerable kernel
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2708 [19:58:21] <acidtripper> i give debian lot of chances... but is annoying the way decisions are taken
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2710 [19:58:44] <rant> ok, sorry, goodbye.. good luck with another OS
2711 [19:58:55] <Urchin> I've seen worse
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2714 [19:59:01] <acidtripper> of course, slackware is the place and as i see will always be
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2717 [19:59:27] <Urchin> like, probably a rootkitted kernel on the install disk that nobody cares about
2718 [19:59:27] <acidtripper> you dont include firmware.. as if rms will include it in that fabolous list...
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2722 [19:59:55] <jelly> !firmware images
2723 [19:59:55] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
2724 [19:59:58] <acidtripper> rootkited kernel where? Urchin ?
2725 [20:00:15] <acidtripper> dpkg: thank youuu
2726 [20:00:15] <dpkg> acidtripper: my pleasure
2727 [20:00:21] <jelly> ^ those will however never be official
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2729 [20:00:25] <Urchin> acidtripper: that was a long long time ago, but that was on Arch
2730 [20:00:38] <acidtripper> ahhaa if official is unusuful lest be unofficial Urchin
2731 [20:01:11] <acidtripper> if being official means sucking rms d*ck...
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2733 [20:01:19] <acidtripper> for him not including in list ahhaa
2734 [20:01:32] <acidtripper> dont catch the idea.
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2736 [20:01:56] <acidtripper> dont catch the idea to give a firmware installer that needs internet connection
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2738 [20:02:15] <jelly> acidtripper: keep this channel for tech support, please. If you want to whine about choices of DFSG interpretation, there's #debian-offtopic or /dev/null
2739 [20:02:36] <acidtripper> hahah /dev/null
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2741 [20:02:45] <bites> what's the difference between official installer images and unofficial ones besides firmware and having the word "unofficial" in the path?
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2748 [20:03:00] <greycat> The unofficial ones are not advertised on the web site.
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2756 [20:03:15] <greycat> It's very difficult to know they exist unless you come here, or some other venue.
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2763 [20:03:35] <jelly> this is intentional
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2767 [20:03:48] <bites> they are created by the same team, arn't they?
2768 [20:03:54] <jelly> sssssh.
2769 [20:04:01] <bites> heh
2770 [20:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1627
2771 [20:04:24] <acidtripper> haha shhh rms wil hear
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2773 [20:04:26] <acidtripper> :P
2774 [20:04:35] <acidtripper> the build weekly also
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2805 [20:11:18] <acidtripper> thanks
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2807 [20:11:28] <acidtripper> for the one who told me about unofficial image
2808 [20:11:37] <acidtripper> that was what i was looking for
2809 [20:11:38] <acidtripper> :D
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2815 [20:14:46] <acidtripper> debian may i marry you?
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2817 [20:14:58] <acidtripper> debian telme the time
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2820 [20:15:33] <Maarten> debian is not siri
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2823 [20:18:17] <jelly> acidtripper: dude, keep it to tech support questions in here, people don't look at irc the whole time and don't want to come back to pages of chat where tech support questions are supposed to be
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2829 [20:21:42] <blackflow> btw, the chanserv welcome message seems to suggest this is a discussion channel, doesn't strictly say it's support only. topic notwithstanding.
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2834 [20:22:35] <JPT> Sure. But just in case - there is also #debian-offtopic :)
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2838 [20:23:02] <jelly> blackflow: yeah, that drifted over time and ought to be fixed
2839 [20:23:11] <blackflow> yeah, just saying :)
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2841 [20:24:31] <l9> i have a problem i never seen before
2842 [20:24:41] <Sleaker> bleh, no one active in debian-boot :(
2843 [20:24:42] <l9> my computer boots but halts under the boot
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2845 [20:25:12] <l9> anyone alive to help debug it?
2846 [20:26:18] <jhutchins_wk> l9: "Under the boot" is not very specific. Can you describe where it halts? What release it it? Do you have boot messages displayed? Is this something new?
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2848 [20:26:22] <hypn0> you could try removing, quiet and splash from boot line to get a bit more output
2849 [20:26:39] <jhutchins_wk> Yes, by editing the boot command in grub.
2850 [20:26:45] <jelly> Sleaker: welcome to the weekend
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2852 [20:26:53] <Sleaker> yah true.
2853 [20:27:00] <l9> brb
2854 [20:27:07] <Sleaker> this is usually why I go home at noon on fridays.
2855 [20:27:16] <Sleaker> useless to start new projects :(
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2857 [20:27:46] <jhutchins_wk> Sleaker: I would expect a channel that specialised to be pretty dead.
2858 [20:28:17] <jhutchins_wk> Switching networks...
2859 [20:28:24] <peterrooney> i've finally moved to stretch, and...i regret it. how to I stop the scrollbars from vanishing?
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2862 [20:28:45] <greycat> what scrollbars?
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2864 [20:29:06] <Sleaker> jhutchins_wk: yah, just trying to get help on how to load gpg keys into a customized disc. or best practice for it.
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2868 [20:32:04] <l9> well it all seems fine
2869 [20:32:21] <l9> but X isnt starting and terminal is acting up
2870 [20:32:36] <l9> it keeps changing focus on my tty
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2872 [20:34:12] <peterrooney> greycat: scrollbars that only show up when the window has focus, AND the mouse is moving. And covers things up in the window when they do appear.
2873 [20:34:53] <greycat> *What* window? What program are you using?
2874 [20:35:21] <l9> what was the chan sid and buster?
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2877 [20:35:55] <peterrooney> greycat: not all prorams. but transmission, for starters.
2878 [20:35:56] <greycat> !debian-next
2879 [20:35:56] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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2882 [20:36:48] <l9> thanks
2883 [20:36:49] <l9> :)
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2898 [20:47:52] <jelly> peterrooney: transmission-qt or transmission-gtk?
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2900 [20:48:06] <adicarlo> heyhey everyone
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2905 [20:50:14] <l9> weird
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2907 [20:50:32] <l9> it kinda happend after i was in single user mode
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2912 [20:51:31] <adicarlo> apt sure is wierd: apt-show-versions -a nvidia-driver | grep backport gives "nvidia-driver:amd64 390.48-2~bpo9+3 stretch-backports ftp.debian.org" -- all well and good
2913 [20:51:31] <adicarlo>
2914 [20:51:31] <apt> ...but sure is already something else...
2915 [20:51:40] <adicarlo> but 'apt -t stretch-backports install nvidia-driver nvidia-kernel-dkms' wants to downgrade me to stable
2916 [20:51:43] <peterrooney> jelly: -gtk
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2920 [20:53:58] <peterrooney> greycat: liferea, for second, epiphany, openbox configuration manager, disk useage analyzer... plus, along the way, I've discovered the occasional GNOME program that has decided that I don't get to choose my window manager.
2921 [20:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1646
2922 [20:54:31] <peterrooney> it's not every program, but even one is too many.
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2924 [20:55:00] <greycat> Unfortunately I've never used any of those and don't know anything about them. If you're seeing this in more than one program, it's probably a single underlying toolkit or library that they have in common. It may be possible to configure it, once you work out which toolkit is doing it.
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2939 [21:02:53] <greycat> checking one package at random, liferea uses libgtk3
2940 [21:04:17] <greycat> I get s bunch of google results for "configure libgtk3 scrollbar" from various years on various specific quirks, so happy hunting
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2944 [21:05:30] <rant> yes there are lots of annoying widget changes the scrollbars chief among them.. in synaptic you can't hardly see nor click on the last thing in a list cause the horizontal scroll covers it
2945 [21:05:48] <rant> its also annoying that clicking on them seeks to that position rather than page
2946 [21:06:58] <jhutchins_wk> adicarlo: Stretch is stable.
2947 [21:07:07] <peterrooney> yah, the parts where they said "screw it" to the arrows at the end, and made left-click become "jump to here" instead of page up/down... my committment to ahimsa weakened.
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2949 [21:07:20] <rant> there was a time when widgets were for controlling things or such.. now they're all about eye candy and is gotten to the point they dont even have to work anymore as long as it looks cool
2950 [21:07:26] <adicarlo> jhutchins_wk: yes I know...
2951 [21:07:32] <jhutchins_wk> Everybody has scroll wheels these days.
2952 [21:07:48] <rant> doesnt mean thats what you wanna use :P
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2954 [21:07:50] <jhutchins_wk> ,v nvidia-driver
2955 [21:07:51] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- wheezy-backports/non-free: 340.102-1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 375.82-1~deb9u1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.130-1~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 384.130-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.48-2~bpo9+3; buster/non-free: 390.48-3; sid/non-free: 390.67-1
2956 [21:07:52] <peterrooney> so, thje question is, what do I do about it /now/
2957 [21:08:20] <greycat> "libgtk becomes Athena widgets version 2, welcome to 2016" or 2014 or whatever year this actually happened
2958 [21:08:39] <rant> peterrooney: I haven't figured that out yet.. but as greycat suggested I was going to eventually look into gtk3 configuration.. just wasnt very high on my list of priorities
2959 [21:08:45] <adicarlo> judd: yah I'm trying to use the stretch-backports version here since the one from stable doens't work with kernel 4.16
2960 [21:08:51] <adicarlo> maybe I should just backup my kernel though
2961 [21:08:57] <rant> peterrooney: however hearing you complain moves it up a bit :P
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2964 [21:09:10] <rant> peterrooney: I thought I was just being ridiculous a bit
2965 [21:09:40] <adicarlo> FYI, the context here is just tryihng to get CUDA working, i'm blacklisting nouveau and all that
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2977 [21:20:59] <rant> peterrooney: which desktop do you use (if any) and are you interested in a followup later on this issue? cause I think I'm gonna work on this now.. it has been annoying me a lot
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2979 [21:22:37] <rant> peterrooney: I'm torn at the outset with a whole gtk3->gtk2 reversion and making some kinda aid for configuration possibly as simple as a full gtk conffile with comments
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2982 [21:23:07] <peterrooney> rant: enlightenment
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2986 [21:23:36] <rant> peterrooney: heh, Id think you wouldnt be overly concerned with such things using that :P
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2988 [21:24:28] <peterrooney> rant: the part where the toolkit decided it's gonna be my window manager is wackness
2989 [21:24:33] <rant> but that counts as no DE as far as I'm concerned
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2991 [21:25:13] <rant> peterrooney: yeah.. gtk stuff has never been concicely well documented in my opinion for the average user
2992 [21:25:27] <rant> its not all that complex though
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2994 [21:26:24] <rant> peterrooney: this link may provide some immediate relief or at least a starting point replaced-url
2995 [21:26:38] <peterrooney> my favourite compsci prof taught us, write the documentation first. then, make the code do it. that way, if there's a bug, you only have to change one. GNOME must believe documentation is the devil
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3001 [21:28:15] <rant> peterrooney: well I've criticized gnome3 and thus gtk3 from the outset for taking us back.. gnome3 lost all ability to config in the UI and took us back to manual hacking of configs with no documentation to aid this
3002 [21:28:33] <rant> in gnome2 you could just right click on things and change them
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3005 [21:30:45] <Vanfanel> Hi there. While trying to debug a program in Debian, I am getting after a segfault: "61 strncase.c: No such file or directory". Does it mean that strncase.c is missing on my system? It seems to be part of glibc, which is installed on the libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1-dev package
3006 [21:30:48] <peterrooney> as i said before, regret.
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3011 [21:32:41] <greycat> Vanfanel: it means you need to contact the support people for whatever you're trying to build.
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3013 [21:33:18] <greycat> You could be doing something wrong, or you could be missing a Debian *-dev package, or you could need a version of something that doesn't exist in your release of Debian, or almost anything.
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3015 [21:34:04] <rant> Vanfanel: typically a "foo: bar" message is saying that the foo: is saying bar that is the no such file error is being produced by that file.. though you dont typically see those kinds of messages in running a program, you see them in compiling one in which case they mean the error occured in that module and it usually shows a line number where the error occured in that file
3016 [21:34:19] <rant> Vanfanel: there isnt enough information/context to know what this means though
3017 [21:35:19] <Vanfanel> greycat: the people developing this software don't use GNU/Linus, it seems I am the only person testing on our OS
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3019 [21:35:45] <Vanfanel> rant: it happens during a GDB session, the program builds fine
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3024 [21:36:51] <greycat> Ahhhh. Then it's gdb trying to show you the source code file where the execution is currently sitting.
3025 [21:37:12] <greycat> If you're having basic trouble understanding how to drive gdb, you can ask here, or in ##workingset
3026 [21:38:07] <Vanfanel> greycat: I more or less know how to use GDB, but it seems it's missing a source file which is part of glibc and I don't know in wich package that file is
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3032 [21:39:30] <greycat> If you really think you need to debug libc itself, there's probably a -dbg package for that, but that sounds horrible.
3033 [21:39:54] <greycat> Personally, if gdb were trying to show me a piece of libc source code, I would just ignore the failure.
3034 [21:40:49] <Vanfanel> greycat: I know what you mean, but the program is segfaulting, so I can't ignore that even if I wanted to :D
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3036 [21:41:43] <greycat> Usually with a core dump (or a seg fault that occurs while you're in gdb), you are only interested in the application's part of the stack trace, and not in the lower level system libraries.
3037 [21:41:57] <greycat> So if you don't get the parts that are internal to libc, that's usually OK.
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3042 [21:43:27] <Vanfanel> greycat: I get the idea. But having the missing internal glibc code would help me to understand what's going on. I wouldn't debug lowlevel libc functions otherwise, as "it's not my business", so to say :P
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3044 [21:44:31] <greycat> well, there's replaced-url
3045 [21:44:49] <greycat> I have never touched that stuff, so good luck.
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3052 [21:46:48] <Vanfanel> greycat: thanks! :)
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3068 [21:58:00] <rant> peterrooney: try these out echo "GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0" >> ~/.profile for the disappearing scroll bars and echo "gtk-primary-button-warps-slider = false" >> /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini for the (disabling) seeking to position when clicking on them
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3070 [21:58:35] <rant> you may have to relog for ~/.profile to be read again
3071 [21:58:37] <greycat> ~/.profile sounds like the wrong place for a variable that you didn't export
3072 [21:58:56] <greycat> I would look for a ~/.gtksomething equivalent
3073 [21:59:10] <rant> well yeah I dont think gtk3 has a gtkrc anymore
3074 [21:59:33] <rant> it was suggested to put it in /etc/environment but thats global
3075 [22:00:16] <greycat> replaced-url
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3077 [22:00:51] <greycat> my first result is replaced-url
3078 [22:01:14] <greycat> second result is replaced-url
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3080 [22:01:50] <rant> greycat: for the actual gtk properties, which there doesnt seem to be one for the OVERLAY_SCROLLING, its an env var
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3082 [22:02:07] <greycat> third result is replaced-url
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3085 [22:02:34] <rant> directly from the gnome site I just read the settings.ini thing in its entirety.. there is only two settings that you can put in any gtk file for scrollbars
3086 [22:02:51] <rant> the overlay (disappearing) thing is only addressable by env
3087 [22:02:55] <greycat> sounds like a question for #gnome, then
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3090 [22:03:13] <greycat> If you need an env var, then you must export it. Simply putting FOO=bar in .profile isn't enough.
3091 [22:03:19] <greycat> You need the word export.
3092 [22:03:44] <greycat> And you must also be sure you're actually USING .profile as part of your login session, which is not always the case.
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3095 [22:04:03] <greycat> see replaced-url
3096 [22:04:22] <rant> well as I said, the place I found that said to put that (without the export) into /etc/environment and that seemed wrong to me.. I guessed at the ~/.profile
3097 [22:04:39] <greycat> /etc/environment is not a shell script. It has a different syntax.
3098 [22:04:53] <rant> it used to be .gtkrc but thats no longer used in gtk3 it seems
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3104 [22:06:20] <rant> only app I could find bad behavior in was synaptic and mine was busy installing stuff or I'd have tested these myself already
3105 [22:08:03] <rant> ok I've confirmed that export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0;synaptic
3106 [22:08:14] <rant> that fixes the disappearing scrollbars
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3110 [22:09:14] <rant> where to put it for proper loading other than /etc/environment remains to be seen.. as that would affect all users
3111 [22:09:28] <rant> effect even
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3113 [22:10:07] <greycat> see replaced-url
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3115 [22:10:27] <greycat> or ask #gnome how to do it without an env var
3116 [22:11:28] <peterrooney> omjf you folk are so helpful.
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3118 [22:12:41] <jelly> peterrooney: that all sounds gtk3ish really?
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3120 [22:14:06] <rant> I'm just trying to figure out a quick and dirty right now and i think I accomplished that.. i gotta step out for a few.. later I am thinking I should write something that can actually configure these various settings in a simple way
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3122 [22:14:51] <rant> even if its just a shell script
3123 [22:14:57] <greycat> It's amazing how completely out of touch with reality the GNOME/libgtk devs are.
3124 [22:15:11] <rant> yes it is indeed
3125 [22:15:20] <greycat> "Let's make scrollbars work like Athena widgets! Everyone loves Athena!"
3126 [22:15:41] <rant> why these setings would be split between two places is ridiculous no matter what he reason
3127 [22:15:57] <rant> near as I can tell scrollbar behavior is in at least 3 places
3128 [22:16:00] <greycat> Probably because three different people worked on it, and each person made a different way to configure their piece.
3129 [22:16:41] <rant> then a 4th should've made a util to modify all 3 :P
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3133 [22:17:26] <greycat> or the 4th should be a manager that oversees the other three and whaps 'em on the heads to make them get in sync with each other
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3138 [22:18:08] <jcarpenter2> i'm looking for the upstream of this source replaced-url
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3140 [22:18:24] <jcarpenter2> but "super" is ironically hard to google, i'm not finding it :/
3141 [22:18:42] <greycat> If it builds to a package, you can check the copyright file in the package.
3142 [22:18:57] <peterrooney> OK, scrollbars seem sane, now i reboot to see if it sticks.
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3145 [22:20:52] <nonumber> i was following replaced-url
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3155 [22:26:12] <rant> greycat: idk I was real pissed when gnome3 released and all the ability to click-drag, right click, use a conf rfronend was all gone and it was just a solid as a rock ui configurable only by undocumented methods.. idk whats wrong with those devs.. its a step backwards in usability
3156 [22:26:35] <greycat> I have no answers for you.
3157 [22:27:12] <rant> yeah me either.. and with gtk3 being widely adopted as peterrooney had indicatted, you have to deal with the changes even if you arent using gnome3
3158 [22:28:12] <rant> so either a utility like that old tweakxp thing needs to be written for gtk3, the whole thing needs to be rewritten, or we need a wrapper to revert gtk3 apps to gtk2 in some sane way
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3160 [22:28:45] <peterrooney> well, now I get to hang out on #gnome for a while and see what their culture is
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3182 [22:40:49] <rant> dpkg gtk3 scrollbar fix is to fix disappearing scrollbars export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 or echo "GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0" > /etc/environment and to disable seeking / enable paging echo "gtk-primary-button-warps-slider = false" >> /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
3183 [22:40:50] <dpkg> okay, rant
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3190 [22:43:16] <rant> dpkg gtk3 scrollbar fix ~= s/>/>>/
3191 [22:43:16] <dpkg> rant: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
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3193 [22:43:24] <rant> dpkg gtk3 scrollbar fix =~ s/>/>>/
3194 [22:43:24] <dpkg> rant: OK
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3200 [22:45:26] <rant> annadane: you get that?
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3204 [22:46:38] <annadane> ^
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3206 [22:46:49] <rant> iirc you wanted to know that as well
3207 [22:47:03] <annadane> oh not the scrollbar fix
3208 [22:47:04] <annadane> afaik
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3210 [22:47:35] <rant> I could swear you said you wanted to know how to fix that too when we were complaining about it before
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3212 [22:48:45] <rant> in any case a work around is now documented
3213 [22:50:00] <annadane> i know i complained about how being able to disable tooltips but that's about it
3214 [22:50:04] <annadane> s/how/not
3215 [22:50:40] <rant> ah.. I thought the numerous times I bitched about scrollbars you'd said you wanted to know as well
3216 [22:50:57] <rant> about the way it seeks to the location when you click on it
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3219 [22:51:14] <rant> rather than the old paging up/dn behavior
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3254 [23:01:29] <dkz> hi
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3264 [23:08:47] <__m4ch1n3__> huh gromit-mpx used to display drawings ontop of fullscreen sdl applications when toggled visibility after start of fullscreen sdl app
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3272 [23:12:58] <pldiem> Does anyone use Tor Browser and was able to enable sound in youtube?
3273 [23:12:58] <pldiem> I'm getting this message: To play audio, you may need to install the required PulseAudio software.
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3279 [23:14:11] <rant> pldiem: and? so install pulseaudio
3280 [23:14:36] <pldiem> * pulseaudio --check -v
3281 [23:14:36] <pldiem> * I: [pulseaudio] main.c: Daemon running as PID 1190
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3284 [23:15:10] <pldiem> I even installed and checked pavucontrol
3285 [23:15:17] <pldiem> everything looks ok
3286 [23:15:19] <rant> to you really need tor to play youtube?
3287 [23:16:13] <pldiem> yes, I would like to be able to play youtube through tor browser
3288 [23:16:18] <_m4ch1n3_> maybe try restart pulsedeamon "pulseaudio -k && pulseaudio -D" as non root user
3289 [23:16:27] <pldiem> I understand that it is not the main purpose of it
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3292 [23:16:57] <_m4ch1n3_> how about torsocks/torify + youtube-dl?
3293 [23:16:57] <rant> its just kinda silly.. it would only make your connection worse
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3296 [23:19:04] <pldiem> @_m4ch1n3_ no luck
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3298 [23:19:39] <rant> pldiem: this isn't an app in debian and the error is vague.. it says to play audio you MAY need.. doesn't seem to want to commit to if it even requires pulse or if there is even a problem trying to play audio
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3300 [23:20:06] <rant> normally an app just straight up says I'm trying to play some audio, its not working not maybe I'm trying to play some audio and maybe its not working
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3303 [23:21:13] <rant> pldiem: basically what I'm saying is we'd need somehing more to go on that makes this a debian sound issue we can troubleshoot or you should ask in a tor channel
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3307 [23:22:05] <pldiem> I know it would be easier to find an issue, but that info I pasted is all I get
3308 [23:22:23] <rant> well running it from a terminal may produce more output
3309 [23:22:26] <pldiem> maybe there is something more in some logs of Tor Browser
3310 [23:22:46] <pldiem> ok, I will try to run it from terminal
3311 [23:23:15] <_m4ch1n3_> google services over tor == unsolvable captchas
3312 [23:23:24] <rant> if it is indeed trying to play some audio via pulse itt sounds like its a pulse issue.. but it seems unsure if thats even what its doing
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3314 [23:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1639
3315 [23:24:07] <rant> if however it IS playing audio and you're just not hearing it, itt sounds more like a mixer or hw issue (unplugged speakers)
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3319 [23:25:16] <SerajewelKS> _m4ch1n3_: here's a picture of cows in a field. please select the tiles with street signs.
3320 [23:25:28] <_m4ch1n3_> :D
3321 [23:25:30] <SerajewelKS> *skip*
3322 [23:25:39] <SerajewelKS> "please try again"
3323 [23:26:24] <pldiem> unfortunately there are no logs (facepalm)
3324 [23:26:52] <pldiem> video is playing fine
3325 [23:26:57] <bites> pldiem: check in /var/log/syslog if something like apparmor is blocking it.
3326 [23:27:06] <pldiem> I have sound in another browser (firefox)
3327 [23:27:21] <rant> afaik tor browser IS a modified firefox
3328 [23:27:31] <pldiem> true
3329 [23:27:57] <rant> modified to be annoying and paranoid
3330 [23:28:10] <rant> wouldn't want somone knowing your screen resolution
3331 [23:28:32] <rant> even though they only programmed that script to check so they could format the page properly
3332 [23:28:55] <SerajewelKS> it's an attack vector if your adversary is a government trying to determine your identity
3333 [23:29:03] <SerajewelKS> there's a reason it does what it does
3334 [23:29:27] <pldiem> @bites yeap there is something like ...apparmor="DENIED"...
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3336 [23:30:04] <pldiem> what does that mean?
3337 [23:30:21] <rant> yeah... just gotta find someone with a screen resolution the same as 4 billion other people.. its like a fingerprint
3338 [23:30:42] <SerajewelKS> in combination with other things, it's identifying
3339 [23:30:48] <bites> pldiem: if you run aa-status there should be some profiles belonging to torbrowser in enforce mode. for debugging i would suggest putting them in complain mode and try again.
3340 [23:30:58] <SerajewelKS> if you don't need that kind of paranoia in your browser then don't use it
3341 [23:30:59] <_m4ch1n3_> not if your pannel has uniq size
3342 [23:31:34] <SerajewelKS> it's entirely useless to complain about features of a program of which you aren't the target user
3343 [23:32:17] <pldiem> command not found: aa-status
3344 [23:32:43] <pldiem> can't find it in repo
3345 [23:32:56] <bites> as root, right?
3346 [23:33:05] <bites> it's in the apparmor package.
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3353 [23:34:17] <pldiem> forgot about root :)
3354 [23:35:27] <bites> then with aa-complain /path/from/aa-status you can put the profiles in complain mode, which means it will still spam your logs but not block anything.
3355 [23:35:39] <pldiem> there are 4 entries about tor in enforce
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3358 [23:36:26] <bites> put them all in complain mode for now.
3359 [23:37:26] <pldiem> sudo: aa-complain: command not found
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3361 [23:37:30] <pldiem> even as root
3362 [23:37:51] <bites> oh, that one is in apparmor-utils
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3364 [23:41:20] <pldiem> the command complains about path
3365 [23:41:34] <pldiem> I have torbrowser_firefox only there
3366 [23:41:44] <pldiem> which torbrowser_firefox - doesn't find the path
3367 [23:43:13] <pldiem> I found proper name of the profile here /etc/apparmor.d
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3371 [23:46:39] <pldiem> @bites great suggestion, thank you
3372 [23:46:58] <pldiem> but I don't really know what I have just done :)
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3374 [23:47:13] <pldiem> I need some reading about this aa-* thing
3375 [23:47:20] <pldiem> but it helped
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3378 [23:47:38] <bites> you're welcome
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3383 [23:49:00] <kqr> don't know if this is the correct place but I'll go: when I try to start mariadb-server 10 in Jessie, either through systemctl or as an init.d script, the service is not started. nothing shows up in the logs. it is about as mysterious as it could be. if I first set _SYSTEMCTL_SKIP_REDIRECT=true and THEN run "/etc/init.d/mysql start", well, then it works. does anyone have an idea why this might be?
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3386 [23:51:00] <bites> pldiem: apparmor is, like selinux, mandatory access control. it's meant to restrict binaries from accessing files and resources beyond the standard unix access control. it's a security measure. it prevents any access that's not explisitly defined in the profiles. by putting them in complain mode it will stop blocking, but instead only logging.
3387 [23:51:51] <bites> s/explisitly/explicitly/
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3396 [23:55:57] <pldiem> @bites ok, now I see ...apparmor="ALLOWED"...
3397 [23:56:19] <pldiem> but isn't it less safe to leave it this way?
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3400 [23:56:30] <bites> yep
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3403 [23:57:08] <bites> a real fix would be allowing pulseaudio in the torbrowser profiles and putting them back in enforce mode.
3404 [23:57:11] *** Quits: dunningk (uid199403@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3405 [23:57:28] <bites> i'm pretty sure the restriction was intentional in the first place.
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3408 [23:58:42] <bites> but i can't help you with that. maybe you can find a patch somewhere.
3409 [23:59:00] *** Joins: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip )
3410 [23:59:22] <pldiem> ok, I will do more research, thanks again
3411 [23:59:32] <bites> good luck
3412 [23:59:32] *** Quits: daze (~daze@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3413 [23:59:44] <pldiem> thx, see ya
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