People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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36 [00:12:24] <Guest38294> how to convert "my first string SYMBOLS \n my second string" to "my first string \n my second string SYMBOLS" with sed or python?
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42 [00:16:18] <agio> anyone know where the cron job is for logrotate?
43 [00:17:52] <`whoami`> agio: it seems to be located there: /etc/cron.daily/logrotate
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48 [00:19:03] <agio> `whoami`: ah, I missed that, I was poking around in /etc/cron.d - but its empty! thanks :)
49 [00:19:11] <`whoami`> np
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51 [00:20:12] <rant> Guest38294: you're literally looking to move the word SYMBOLS in all caps?
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56 [00:23:21] <Guest38294> @rant it does'nt matter
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61 [00:27:40] <simbalion> I'm having issues with libpam-u2f and Debian 9 on a newish laptop (Thinkpad X1C Rev 6). My yubikey works on my older desktop but on this laptop it fails to communicate during the authorization step. However pamu2fcfg works and other sorts of communications with the yubikey works on this machine. Can anyone offer a possible solution?
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66 [00:28:47] <rant> Guest38294: I've interpreted that as you withdrawing your question because it does matter i SYMBOLS could be any random utf-8 char or something
67 [00:29:10] <Azrael_-> ok, my bad. it seems like this is a bug in php-fpm which only occurs if opcache+xcache are enabled. although i use apache this post seems so have solved it: replaced-url
68 [00:29:40] <Azrael_-> now "apt-get upgrade" throws some dependency-errors. how can i fix this best without too much manual effort?
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71 [00:32:58] <Guest38294> i want to move certain chars onto end of next string
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79 [00:37:10] <rant> Guest38294: ok well you psplit the string "split_string=s.split('\n')" then search the first split for chars "SYMBOLS=chars[0].find(SYMBOLS)" then rebuild the string "'\n'.join([chars[:SYMBOLS][0],chars[1]+SYMBOLS])" generally speaking you may want [:SYMBOLS-1] there and chars[1]+' '+SYMBOLS idk
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81 [00:37:45] <rant> erm yeah I'm groggy right now but you get the idea I hope
82 [00:38:02] <rant> its a simple split, search, join kinda deal
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85 [00:39:07] <agio> what is the debian "best practice" these days for scheduling maintenance/house keeping tasks? cron or systemd timers?
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88 [00:39:19] <rant> thats got all kinds of errors.. if you need more help goto a programming channel like #bash or #python
89 [00:40:21] <rant> agio: there are no "best practices", its your choice.. I didnt even know systemd did that so I'd have gone with cron
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91 [00:40:48] <agio> It seems systemd timers are better
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93 [00:41:26] <rant> yeah well only you know whats "best" or "better" for you
94 [00:41:48] <rant> its not like cron is deprecated that I'm aware its still being used
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96 [00:43:41] <`whoami`> is there anything that systemd won't do ?
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98 [00:43:49] <`whoami`> in the future, I mean
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102 [00:45:03] <rant> `whoami`: hopefully... there scifi has many examples of this sort of thing ending badly :P
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114 [00:49:35] <`whoami`> I'm still wondering why systemd was so quickly adopted
115 [00:49:45] <`whoami`> but that's pretty much offtopic, I think :)
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117 [00:50:30] <rant> idk I gues a lot of people thought the whole async loading thing was really important.. and then saw that it had other improvements to make system administration easier
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119 [00:50:54] <rant> and ignored the technical debt / learning curve :P
120 [00:52:02] <`whoami`> =)
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122 [00:52:30] <agio> I think systemd has obvious commands which should have been there all along
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124 [00:53:45] <rant> yeah I can see that, but only because I had time to learn a bit how to use it.. it was driving me insane at first everything I was having issues with was tracing back to systemd somehow or another. Wouldn't have hurt to make a long scroll with all the crap systemd changed :P
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127 [00:54:46] <rant> it changed pretty much EVERYTHING.. you can't even date --set anymore without systemd cause its got a service that'll override that
128 [00:55:21] <somiaj> `whoami`: there is a good email listing why debian adopted systemd, and it wasn't so quickly, it did take at least one release as a feature preview.
129 [00:55:40] <somiaj> !why systemd
130 [00:55:40] <dpkg> a tired argument. Start by reading rra's excellent analysis at replaced-url
131 [00:56:03] <`whoami`> somiaj: thanks, i'll read that
132 [00:56:30] <somiaj> for me I didn't notice much change, the debian specific tools work with both such as update-rc.d and invoke-rc.d
133 [00:56:35] <Azrael_-> ok, seems like "apt-get -f install" fixed it. thanks anyway
134 [00:57:10] <somiaj> the time thing, well time being in sync is important, so ntpd like clone was installed by default, no big deal. But yes, there is a lot of changes, depending on what you use and are use to.
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136 [00:57:51] <agio> somiaj: which do you prefer these days for scheduling tasks? cron or systemd timers?
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138 [00:58:13] <somiaj> agio: I don't schedule enough tasks to notice the difference. I just use cron beucase it is there and I'm use to it
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141 [01:00:50] <agio> is it possible to simply print - as a single command - all the cron jobs currently being run on the system?
142 [01:01:27] <somiaj> I don't know because they are scattered about in system crontab, /etc/cron.time directories, and user crontabs
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145 [01:02:29] <somiaj> I don't see such a tool, but a simple script could be made
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150 [01:04:31] <somiaj> just look at the output of cat /etc/crontab, /etc/cron.d/ and /var/spool/cron/crontabs/ for user crontabs, then look at the scripts in /etc/cron.{hourly,daily,weekyl,monthly}/
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153 [01:06:46] <somiaj> so i'm not seeing a premade script, but doesn't look like it would be that hard to write one
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155 [01:07:57] <mac`> tail your syslog you'll see crontab -e
156 [01:08:31] <rant> so quite literally "cat /etc/crontab /etc/cron.d/* /var/spool/cron/crontabs/* /etc/cron.{hourly,daily,weekly,monthly}/*"
157 [01:09:04] <rant> that wouldnt even need a script, an alias would work :P
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167 [01:12:00] <somiaj> though you might want to ls the /etc/cron.foo/ directoires, as the name of the script might be all you need over its full contents
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169 [01:12:34] <somiaj> since often times crontrab is just calling a script, so the crontab will only give script names as well
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173 [01:14:35] <fasdfd> should swap partition be present in fstab?
174 [01:15:29] <rant> fasdfd: if you want it auto-mounted, sure
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176 [01:15:44] <fasdfd> because I just switched disks and the old swap partition present in fstab is no more accessible, but still free -m reports that I have swap
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182 [01:17:20] <rant> fasdfd: check cat /proc/swaps maybe
183 [01:17:57] <fasdfd> its there /dev/sda2 partition 3857404 0 -1
184 [01:18:08] <fasdfd> perhaps me using btrfs has tsomething to do with this
185 [01:18:44] <rant> did you hotswap the drives or someting? does lsblk show a /dev/sda2 ?
186 [01:19:08] <fasdfd> it does
187 [01:19:26] <somiaj> with systemd, you can also have mount units over fstab, but I think debian would use fstab by default in the installer.
188 [01:19:34] <somiaj> (systemd turns fstab entries into mount units)
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190 [01:19:54] <fasdfd> I added the new disk to the btrfs pool, rebalanced, deleted the old disk, rebooted, fixed grub, rebooted a bunch of times
191 [01:20:18] <rant> fasdfd: does fdisk -l show /dev/sda2 is a swap partition ? :P
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194 [01:20:28] <fasdfd> yes
195 [01:20:48] <rant> is the fstab entry using /dev/sda2 and not a UUID or LABEL?
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197 [01:21:11] <fasdfd> this is the fstab entry UUID=d56e9b6f-f2f5-4dd2-b3a2-0c76eeee5e07 none swap sw 0 0
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200 [01:21:20] <rant> ah.. well then that is odd
201 [01:21:30] <rant> cause the UUID shouldnt be the same
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205 [01:21:53] <rant> fasdfd: blkid /dev/sda2
206 [01:22:04] <fasdfd> the uuid is different on the new disk though
207 [01:22:25] <fasdfd> : /dev/sda2: UUID="cfa312d8-b1eb-4920-ad5f-88e036f637a6" TYPE="swap" PARTUUID="22325470-d323-4376-9d40-35a974cf4b40"
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209 [01:22:57] <rant> yeah I got no explanation for that one.. but I dont know systemd all that well, and I suspect systemd
210 [01:23:16] <fasdfd> I think if you create a swap partition on ubuntu live usb ubuntu will automatically mount it, but I'm not sure how this would happen on debian server
211 [01:24:14] <rant> yeah I only understand the process we just went through :P
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213 [01:25:08] <k0leo> hi , how can i find a word from strings all files on a diroctry in 1 command ?
214 [01:25:22] <somiaj> use grep?
215 [01:25:29] <rant> k0leo: thats precisely what grep is for
216 [01:25:37] <k0leo> how
217 [01:25:40] <rant> k0leo: grep string *
218 [01:26:15] <k0leo> like i want to find word "example" in this dir
219 [01:26:27] <rant> grep "example" *
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221 [01:26:38] <mac`> egrep -nir 'bla' /dir
222 [01:26:38] <rant> the glob * will expand to all iles in CWD
223 [01:26:40] <somiaj> man grep for more info
224 [01:27:28] <k0leo> thanks
225 [01:28:04] <rant> k0leo: mac's suggestion will recurse into subdirs and show the line number where the match occured as well as do a case-insensitive search
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227 [01:29:36] <rant> though egrep isn't needed (its just grep -e) and you're looking for a string not an expression
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260 [01:51:27] <agio> does anyone know what: /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily update does?
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266 [01:54:11] <somiaj> agio: it runs apt update, which just keeps your sources.list synced
267 [01:54:19] <somiaj> I mean your local cache
268 [01:55:01] <agio> really its a whole shell script which does files stamp comparisons?
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272 [01:56:46] <somiaj> sure, no need to run the update if it has been manually run, ti also can be ce configured via APT preferences, and allows all of that to affect how it runs, but in general my understanding is it mostly just runs apt update
273 [01:57:00] <somiaj> seems there is a backup level to
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275 [01:57:43] <somiaj> seems it will also autoclean, clean, and download packages that need to be upgraded, and call unattended upgrades if needed.
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298 [02:09:30] <rant> yeah I thought I was hacked when I first discovered that... I seen things going on that I wasnt expecting to happen
299 [02:10:08] <rant> things like that hardly go unnoticed as those dpkg database operations are somewhat intensive
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302 [02:11:40] <annadane> the fact that unattended-upgrades sometimes is installed via certain packages and auto activated is annoying
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304 [02:12:01] <rant> hmm.. I wasnt aware of that either
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306 [02:13:00] <zimb> how can I start X by hand with startx and what problems may arise from it?
307 [02:13:26] <rant> zimb: you type startx and none
308 [02:13:48] <rant> I personally always used xinit when starting it manually..
309 [02:14:01] <zimb> but it always goes to a graphical login screen
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311 [02:14:19] <rant> zimb: using startx it goes to a login?
312 [02:14:33] <rant> zimb: or you're saying the system boots that way?
313 [02:14:35] <zimb> no, starting the machine
314 [02:14:42] <zimb> yes
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316 [02:14:58] <rant> zimb: ah you can either remove the display manager package or disable it
317 [02:15:33] <zimb> how do I init in cli mode only?
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319 [02:15:47] <zimb> just init 2 or 3
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322 [02:18:15] <rant> debian configures all runlevels the same by default and thats not really how its done anymore (with init)
323 [02:18:26] <zimb> telinit 3
324 [02:18:32] <rant> systemctl does that now
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326 [02:19:03] <rant> but as I say you can just disable the DM service or remove the package
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328 [02:19:21] <zimb> ok
329 [02:19:32] <zimb> thanks
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331 [02:20:30] <rant> dpkg -l gdm3 kdm xdm wdm lightdm nodm lxdm sddm 2>/dev/null | egrep ^.i | awk '{print $2}'
332 [02:20:30] <dpkg> No packages found matching gdm3 kdm xdm wdm lightdm nodm lxdm sddm 2>/dev/null | egrep ^.i | awk '{print $2}'
333 [02:20:33] <zimb> Another question, I will not loose anything in performance or acees to memory or GPUs and what not?!
334 [02:20:41] <rant> that will output the name of any install display managers
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344 [02:25:53] <rant> zimb: this is the normal way of starting the x server.. it'll work exactly the same as when started from a display manager
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347 [02:26:50] <rant> zimb: the only difference is the display manager does it automatically and controls the session type.. when starting manually you have to make a config to tell it what session to start, specify it on the command line or else it just starts with nothing but an xterm
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349 [02:27:34] <rant> how exactly the startx script does this, I'm not sure as I never used it.. I use xinit and ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession when I run it manually
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351 [02:29:03] <rant> only time I ever used startx was first time I ever saw a *nix machine.. someone gave me an HP Apollo workstation running HPUX I guess, and I was hammering around trying to figure out how it worked and found the startx script..
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360 [02:32:12] <rant> startx is just a script and not even a consistent one, its more sample code found on most machines typically to extend and wrap xinit
361 [02:32:27] <rant> so I never bothered with it
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367 [02:33:58] <rant> less $(which startx) will show you this.. and tells you in the comments at the top its jsut an example and you're STRONGLY urged to modify it to your needs
368 [02:34:13] <rant> I determined I didnt need it :P
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370 [02:35:33] <rant> because of that simple fact it should not be relied upon unless you supply your own modified version because there is no guarentee of consistency on an example script
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373 [02:36:59] <rant> zimb: all that being said, thats the only problem I could think of is that the maintainer could change that script and if you haven't supplied your own version or modified it, apt will install the maintainers version and could change its behavior
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375 [02:38:10] <rant> really just removing the comments at the top would suffice for customizing it enough that apt would ask you before replacing it
376 [02:38:37] <zimb> Okay
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378 [02:38:49] <rant> though I'm not really certain of that as its not a config file
379 [02:38:49] <annadane> rant took over #debian
380 [02:38:54] <zimb> I'll do a script by myself
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384 [02:39:22] <rant> for most use cases just runing xinit and putting your session stuff in ~/.xsession is fine
385 [02:39:36] <rant> unless you need something fancy there isnt a real need for startx
386 [02:39:41] <zimb> just copy startx to my bin and edit it from there
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390 [02:40:47] <zimb> can I ask more stuff related to X
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392 [02:41:18] <rant> zimb: thats a good way to ensure consistency I suppose, running it from your homedir.. that def wont be touched by apt
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394 [02:41:29] <zimb> I prefer to have a script for it
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397 [02:42:04] <zimb> That's what I thought
398 [02:42:05] <rant> yeah well I just wanted to make a point since you seemed overly concerned that its use should be done as you have suggested.. by customizing it
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401 [02:42:55] <rant> as its not really a standard way to start the X server although many people seem to think so.. its just sample code in sh form
402 [02:43:01] <zimb> also easier to backup and take allcustomizations with yu to another machine
403 [02:43:39] <rant> since you kept going on about your concern for it I felt it was necessary to stress the point that its not something standardized
404 [02:43:43] <zimb> a really old sample code, it dates from xfree86 era
405 [02:43:58] <rant> yeah its been around so long many people think its something standard
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407 [02:44:01] <zimb> If I can recall correctly ...
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411 [02:44:45] <rant> the way to start X is to use xinit or a display manager.. thats just a site-specific script that can be different in different use cases
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414 [02:45:04] <rant> so an admin as concerned about it as you are should be making their own script
415 [02:45:10] <zimb> Okay, got it
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419 [02:47:26] <zimb> if you can't explain these, please point me at the right direction, for an beginner sysadmin can start to understand the wonders of ICE and Xauth.
420 [02:47:41] <zimb> Also, thanks for the answers
421 [02:47:53] <rant> heh you're getting into the thick of it there
422 [02:48:09] <zimb> I knew
423 [02:48:24] <zimb> I tried once
424 [02:48:44] <rant> xauth is a nasty beast designed to make sure there is only authorized access to the server.. wayland has been designed because there are a vast many security concerns in X
425 [02:49:01] *** Quits: linuxdaemon (linuxdemon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
426 [02:49:17] <rant> its best to get your info on xauth from the manpage man 1 xauth
427 [02:49:49] <zimb> man 1, is it low level C info?
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429 [02:50:01] <rant> man 1 iceauth for the other
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431 [02:50:25] <rant> zimb: from man man "1 Executable programs or shell commands"
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435 [02:54:03] <zimb> I saw it
436 [02:54:10] <zimb> thanks
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440 [02:59:25] <zimb> not surprisingly wikipedia is very informative about it... The time I tried to read about it, the article was not good or non-existant .
441 [03:01:09] <rant> yeah its a hot mess those auth mechanisms for X most people don't even bother trying to explain it :P
442 [03:01:23] <rant> which is why I directed you to the man pages
443 [03:01:38] <zimb> actually it is simple, I thought it was a beast
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445 [03:02:06] <rant> I start reading about magic cookies and stuff and just wander off rolling my eyes
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447 [03:02:12] <rant> heh
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455 [03:06:21] <FuzzyNubbinz> brb
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471 [03:21:14] <duppu> I just installed Debian 9strech
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473 [03:21:31] <dvs> oh ones!
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477 [03:22:47] <zimb> rant: ^^
478 [03:23:48] <zimb> I want to learn because when I go to irc.virtualife.com.br , the guys there can even tell my username on my system, and they laugh oh man they laugh.
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482 [03:25:13] <annadane> stopdroppingthingsoffthegrid@gmail.comyEdbR2arepqvGg6
483 [03:25:20] <annadane> whoops
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492 [03:29:08] <hypercore> what's the best way of installing gitea on debian 9.4?
493 [03:29:28] <zimb> apt install git
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495 [03:29:37] <zimb> Have you tried?
496 [03:29:45] *** Joins: Malinux (~malin@replaced-ip )
497 [03:29:47] <hypercore> zimb: gitea, not git
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501 [03:30:59] <zimb> oh ok
502 [03:31:45] <karlpinc> ,gitea
503 [03:32:04] <karlpinc> ,versions gitea
504 [03:32:05] <judd> Package: gitea on amd64 -- sid/contrib: 1.3.2+dfsg-3
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508 [03:33:56] <karlpinc> ,checkbackport gitea
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510 [03:35:28] <karlpinc> hypercore: The judd bot seems slow. You might be able to backport it yourself from sid. See "/msg dpkg ssb" typed in this channel.
511 [03:35:28] <Unit193> A golang nightmare, I don't think it'll be fun.
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515 [03:35:40] <karlpinc> Unit193: Not doable?
516 [03:35:43] <judd> Backporting package gitea in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: golang-code.gitea-git-dev, golang-code.gitea-sdk-dev, golang-etcd-server-dev, golang-github-alicebob-miniredis-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-bleve-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-go-porterstemmer-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-segment-dev, golang-github-bsm-redeo-dev, golang-github-chaseadamsio-
517 [03:35:44] <judd> goorgeous-dev, golang-github-couchbase-moss-dev, golang-github-cupcake-rdb-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-clock-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-grace-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-httpdown-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-stats-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-bindata-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-cache-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-captcha-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-csrf-dev, golang-github-go-macaron- (3 more messages)
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519 [03:35:59] <karlpinc> hypercore: Yup, not doable.
520 [03:36:11] <Unit193> :)
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547 [03:51:54] <altker128> Hey all. Anyone here using slapd / OpenLDAP?
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583 [04:14:18] <_marshy> o/
584 [04:14:36] <karlpinc> altker128: Ask your real question.
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595 [04:28:25] <hoshineko> hello, I have an issue on all debian-based distributions, when I remove /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf fonts in some programs (most notably my browser) break
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597 [04:28:45] <hoshineko> any ideas about how to fix this?
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632 [04:57:37] <altker128> karlpinc: I just installed slapd and did a dpkg-reconfigure , and answered the basic questions
633 [04:57:55] <altker128> karlpinc: When I issue ldapsearch -x -h localhost , I get
634 [04:58:03] <altker128> # search result
635 [04:58:05] <altker128> search: 2
636 [04:58:06] <altker128> result: 32 No such object
637 [04:58:08] <altker128> # numResponses: 1
638 [04:58:09] <altker128> Which doesn't seem right
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641 [05:00:21] <paxtor_> me q é?
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646 [05:02:32] <paxtor_> ??????
647 [05:03:07] <altker128> !!!!!!
648 [05:03:08] <dpkg> from memory, !!!!! is "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." -- Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
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651 [05:03:41] <paxtor_> tem br nessa porra?
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685 [05:24:51] <orbular> hello. I'm trying to set vm.max_map_count in /etc/sysctl.conf, I am using `sysctl -w vm.max_map_count=262144` instead of editing the file. but the setting does not appear in the sysctl.conf or sysctl.d
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687 [05:25:17] <altker128> orbular: You can always add it in
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690 [05:26:43] <orbular> ah. the command changes this boot, but the file changes future boots?
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698 [05:33:12] <rant> I cannot comprehend this issue, I am ssh into my fathers stretch/amd64 box and I can run player as his user and he hears sound play but when he runs the exact same command from his desktop as his user he sees mplayer sayign its playing without error and hears nothing.
699 [05:33:24] <rant> anyone have ANY idea how that is possible? heh
700 [05:33:46] <rant> he is using pulse and does have two sound cards..
701 [05:34:07] <rant> but I'd think being that I'm using the same user and same pulse setup that couldnt be an issue
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710 [05:37:22] <rant> apparently he has the wrong card selected.. idk how I am able to use his user and his pulse daemon with the same app and it works that makes no sense
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715 [05:38:40] <altker128> orbular: Changing the file would change it on every boot
716 [05:38:58] <altker128> rant: Try smplayer
717 [05:39:06] <altker128> rant: That will let you set the default sound device
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721 [05:39:45] <rant> well the problem is resolved now I jsut can understand how his pulse configuration couldve been different than mine cause I'm ssh as his user
722 [05:40:30] <rant> I'd think if his sound prefs applet were selecting his built in audio instead of the usb on his hdmi adapter.. it would not work for me either
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794 [06:32:39] <rant> altker128: not to mention I can take advice from someone who wears their underpants on their head :P
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801 [06:35:36] <fyber> So I installed Debian and created a non-root user from the installer - and some things seem off. Notably, the absence of `sudo` being installed by default.
802 [06:35:45] <fyber> Is sudo not supposed to be there by default?
803 [06:35:55] <fyber> I installed it myself, but it seems weird.
804 [06:37:01] <somiaj> sudo is only installed if you don't give root a password
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806 [06:37:10] <agio> how did you create a non-root user from the installer - is that even possible?
807 [06:37:23] <somiaj> if you give root a password, installer assumes you wnt to use the root account. To use sudo, you need to apt install sudo, then adduser username sudo, and that user will have full sudo privlages
808 [06:37:28] <somiaj> you may need to logout/backin
809 [06:38:02] <somiaj> agio: It is, it usually asks you to create one none root users, and if you don't give root a password, it then sets up that users with full sudo privalges
810 [06:38:06] <somiaj> though I always use the expert installer
811 [06:38:28] <fyber> Oh okay, that makes sense.
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813 [06:40:23] <fyber> The other thing is that `lm-sensors` detects my CPU temperature as -62.5°C (yes, negative) regardless of load - so I'm pretty sure it's wrong.
814 [06:40:59] <fyber> Is there another tool that displays CPU temperature?
815 [06:41:04] <fyber> Even acpi is blank/
816 [06:41:49] <somiaj> sometimes it has to be calibrated, or maybe there is another module better at reading your sensors.
817 [06:41:58] <somiaj> did you run sensors-detect
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819 [06:42:18] <fyber> Yup, ran sensors-detect and hit enter a bunch of times.
820 [06:42:23] <somiaj> it use to be you had to configure it to calibrate it for some mobos, though I haven't had to do that in a while.
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823 [06:43:03] <somiaj> you may want to look up the actual mobo sensor you are using, and see if there is a config file for it, or what you can find.
824 [06:43:46] <somiaj> care to share the output of sensors at paste.debian.net
825 [06:44:15] <fyber> replaced-url
826 [06:45:25] <fyber> The < 110C temperatures are obviously wrong (hopefully :P)
827 [06:45:39] <fyber> er, > 110C
828 [06:46:52] <fyber> Looks like I'm not the only one with this issue. replaced-url
829 [06:47:24] <somiaj> yea, unsure why it isn't reading your sensors correctly
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832 [06:48:46] <fyber> That's why I wanted to try another tool, maybe some tool has a different way of getting that data. 🤷
833 [06:49:22] <somiaj> they are reading it from kernel modules, so unless sensors-detect detected other possible modules, unsure
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862 [06:59:29] <fyber> Oh, figured it out.
863 [06:59:44] <fyber> The newer package version has a fix for Ryzen, but it's not in the debian packages yet.
864 [06:59:53] <fyber> Every time.
865 [06:59:54] <fyber> :D
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875 [07:08:23] <hays> will openssl 1.1.1 be backported into debian 9
876 [07:08:49] <hays> i kinda want to try the pre7 version.. not sure there is a way to just pull in tht package from experimental
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899 [07:19:36] <hays> nope too early to try openssl 1.1.1 heh. it requires a libc update
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952 [07:58:03] <jelly> hays: it's unlikely that openssl relies on a specific gnu libc version, only a specific build in experimental might. Those are not meant to be used with stable however. You'd have to do your own build.
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962 [08:03:46] <Haohmaru> when i ping -s <size>, is the data compared?
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1067 [09:16:23] <guiverc_t> Haohmaru, it is my understanding no comparison of data is done (just ignored). data size is more for troubleshooting devices (large packets fail, small packets get thru; looking at packet loss)
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1155 [10:14:10] <Haohmaru> guiverc_t yeah.. i'm exactly trying to troubleshoot a device
1156 [10:14:46] <Haohmaru> on windows, with "ping" and a length of 512 - i get a miscompare at length 119, every single time
1157 [10:15:31] <Haohmaru> but the meaning of this message (on MSDN) seems very fishy, that's why i thought to try ping from linux
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1240 [11:16:10] <CtrlC> Hi guys, I had a devops interview and I got asked a question that was a bit weird maybe. They asked me if we have an app without mysql that gets a request range of 1000 to 10000 reqs per second, how many servers do we need?
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1245 [11:18:06] <petn-randall> CtrlC: How is that related to Debian?
1246 [11:18:35] <CtrlC> It can be a bit. thought maybe someone knows something here.
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1249 [11:20:13] <RoyK> CtrlC: the answer is "that depends on the sort of request and the serverside software, and also, how powerful the server is" et cetera et cetera ad infinitum
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1251 [11:20:46] <RoyK> an nginx server should be able to handle that load on even a rather slow server
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1257 [11:24:26] <provolone> replaced-url
1258 [11:24:42] <provolone> I am unable to start jetty
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1279 [11:45:50] <petn-randall> CtrlC: I see. Let's continue the discussion on #debian-offtopic then.
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1328 [12:18:42] <cousin_luigi> Greetings.
1329 [12:18:59] <cousin_luigi> Where do I see on salsa the upstream url?
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1336 [12:24:51] <m712> hi, running debian sid and the latest repos seem to be missing some updates? gcc-8-base's latest version and thunar-data seem to be missing
1337 [12:25:02] <m712> the old versions exist but the new versions aren't in the repo
1338 [12:25:07] <m712> is this temporary?
1339 [12:25:29] <m712> i guess it's in the middle of an update
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1344 [12:33:21] <JohnKit> whois latidude
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1349 [12:36:10] <elge> Hi, I setup a new repository into sources.list but whenever I `search` or `show` e.g. `ceph`, it proposes the one from the debian main repository, not from the one I want
1350 [12:36:29] <elge> how to get around the official packages and use the newer ones from third-parity repo?
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1352 [12:37:47] <sulc> Hello! I would like to install rainloop as a package, here I found something replaced-url
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1357 [12:40:50] <bitess> elge: if you look at the output of apt-cache policy you see the pin-priority of each repo. apt-cache policy <package> shows that for each package with the install candidate. you can use pinning to change those priorities.
1358 [12:40:54] <petn-randall> elge: That might be a sign that the 3rd party repo is not meant to be used with that Debian release. Packages need to have a higher version number to be considered by apt for installation.
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1361 [12:41:43] <petn-randall> elge: 'apt-file search' will likely need a 'apt-file update' before working correctly. Also the 3rd party repo has to correctly provide a Contents file to work.
1362 [12:42:04] <elge> petn-randall, indeed I have an issue with the third-parity repo. Although those packages **are truly newer**, I cannot see them using apt search even with only that repo enabled
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1364 [12:42:26] <elge> nono I am not using apt-file
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1367 [12:43:44] <petn-randall> elge: Can you show us the output of 'apt-cache policy ceph' then? replaced-url
1368 [12:44:18] <elge> when I only enable the third-parity: N: Unable to locate package ceph
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1371 [12:45:01] <`whoami`> sulc: afaict rainloop doesn't seem to be packaged for the debian distro, see <replaced-url
1372 [12:45:30] <`whoami`> sulc: maybe this would help: replaced-url
1373 [12:45:34] <elge> same for `ceph-base` and while looking at the repo tree, I see ceph-base_13.2.0-1bionic_amd64.deb and ceph-base_13.2.0-1xenial_amd64.deb while it is a debian9 repo!
1374 [12:45:56] <elge> looks like ceph people made it wrong
1375 [12:46:36] <domovoy> hi
1376 [12:46:43] <domovoy> using debian stable, desktop is awesome, i'm trying to set the default 'mailto:' handler with 'XDG_UTILS_DEBUG_LEVEL=2 xdg-settings set default-url-scheme-handler mailto claws-mail.desktop; echo $?' but it fails, here is the output: replaced-url
1377 [12:47:56] <petn-randall> !tell domovoy -about crosspost
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1379 [12:49:19] <domovoy> sorry, just figured since it's a different network, it would be different people
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1381 [12:50:47] <sulc> `whoami`: Thank you, I found the howtoforge link as well, but it has "curl -s replaced-url
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1383 [12:51:38] <petn-randall> ,v rainloop
1384 [12:51:39] <judd> No package named 'rainloop' was found in amd64.
1385 [12:52:02] <petn-randall> sulc: It's in the NEW queue, waiting for review. It's not even in Debian unstable yet.
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1387 [12:52:54] <petn-randall> sulc: You can however download the source package to it, and try building it on your system. But I'm going to assume that you will need to upgrade to stretch first to fulfil the dependencies.
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1399 [12:54:42] <sulc> petn-randall: I'll look into it, thank you
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1415 [12:57:07] <joejoejoe> Hello! I am using the Mate Desktop. How can I get one of these info things in the taskbar that tell me if my system is up to date?
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1426 [13:03:44] <S_Gautam> Hello
1427 [13:03:52] <S_Gautam> How do I install the kernel sources for the kernel I'm running?
1428 [13:03:59] <S_Gautam> apt only reports linux-source and linux-source-4.9
1429 [13:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1645
1430 [13:04:05] <S_Gautam> I'm running 4.9.0-6-amd64
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1438 [13:07:09] <afidegnum> hello good morning, i am having what believed to be an attack, suddently apache2 is maxing out CPUs, but i m using nginx as default web server i don't have anything to do with apache. here is my current state command: /var/replaced-url
1439 [13:08:00] <afidegnum> how do i trace this out?
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1444 [13:11:27] <petn-randall> afidegnum: Where does the binarz /var/replaced-url
1445 [13:11:36] <petn-randall> *binary
1446 [13:11:40] <nindustries> Suppose I want to move a debian installation to another server, would a sudo rsync / otherserver:/ work ?
1447 [13:12:01] <afidegnum> ok, i found something
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1449 [13:12:12] <afidegnum> there was a fishy .xml directory created
1450 [13:12:14] <S_Gautam> does 4.9.0-6 have separate kernel sources or is installing the linux-source-4.9 package enough?
1451 [13:12:20] <S_Gautam> I need it for building a driver
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1458 [13:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1639
1459 [13:15:25] <jelly> S_Gautam: if the driver is well written you don't need the whole sources to build it, just linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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1462 [13:16:15] <S_Gautam> jelly: I installed that package, but the makefile seems to reference this directory: /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build
1463 [13:16:28] <jelly> that's normal
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1465 [13:16:50] <S_Gautam> Yeah, but it stops. Creating that directory just causes 'no target for modules'
1466 [13:16:54] <jelly> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 36 May 8 00:38 /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build -> /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64
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1469 [13:17:20] <S_Gautam> so i symlink it to /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64 ?
1470 [13:17:43] <jelly> no, that should be done automatically when you install the right linux-headers-* package
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1474 [13:18:20] <jelly> S_Gautam: what does this command say: dpkg -S /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build
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1479 [13:19:47] <S_Gautam> linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64: /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build
1480 [13:19:58] <S_Gautam> but make reports: make[1]: *** /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build: No such file or directory. Stop.
1481 [13:21:28] <jelly> something's broken, try to reinstall the headers
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1483 [13:22:46] <S_Gautam> Yup! Works!
1484 [13:22:56] <S_Gautam> thanks a lot man, jelly
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1487 [13:24:16] <jelly> cheers
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1491 [13:27:20] <afidegnum> petn-randall: what's the meaning of this command ? (replaced-url
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1495 [13:30:47] <petn-randall> afidegnum: You need to provide more context to make it meaningful to others.
1496 [13:31:00] *** Joins: hgfd123 (~hgfd123@replaced-ip )
1497 [13:31:11] <petn-randall> afidegnum: Only you know what is in /home/apps/.xmr/upd
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1500 [13:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1633
1501 [13:34:12] <jelly> the meaining is "a cron job run as replaced-url
1502 [13:34:20] <yokowka> heavennO everysoul!
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1512 [13:43:05] <afidegnum> petn-randall: how do i git put the whole folder to github? i m using git push but not working
1513 [13:43:18] <petn-randall> !doesnt work
1514 [13:43:18] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
1515 [13:43:27] <nindustries> Will an rsync of my root filesystem to a remote system work?
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1520 [13:44:38] <petn-randall> afidegnum: Could it be that you're a bot? You don't seem to be responding to anything I say, and your message don't seem to have any correlation with eachother.
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1523 [13:45:51] <afidegnum> petn-randall: sorry, lol
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1525 [13:46:03] <petn-randall> *messages
1526 [13:46:18] <afidegnum> I m trying to upload the folder where the situation is happening to github so you can have a look
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1528 [13:46:34] <petn-randall> afidegnum: What part is failing?
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1531 [13:47:08] <afidegnum> ok, i already started
1532 [13:47:09] <petn-randall> afidegnum: For now, just pasting the contents of /home/apps/.xmr/upd might be a start.
1533 [13:47:10] <afidegnum> git init
1534 [13:47:19] <afidegnum> ok
1535 [13:47:24] <petn-randall> → replaced-url
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1540 [13:48:27] <afidegnum> using termbin
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1542 [13:49:23] <afidegnum> petn-randall: that's the upd file
1543 [13:49:24] <afidegnum> replaced-url
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1546 [13:50:52] <jelly> termbin dies!
1547 [13:51:04] <afidegnum> click on the link
1548 [13:51:09] <jelly> no.
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1551 [13:51:29] <afidegnum> that's why i want to upload the entirety on github
1552 [13:51:41] <afidegnum> it's a shell script
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1558 [13:55:01] <petn-randall> afidegnum: And all it does is check a PID and call /home/apps/.xmr/r. What is that file?
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1561 [13:57:25] <afidegnum> i m preparing to upload to github
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1571 [14:02:22] <afidegnum> petn-randall: here you are replaced-url
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1579 [14:04:33] <petn-randall> afidegnum: Have you uploaded the binaries to virustotal.com yet?
1580 [14:04:47] <afidegnum> no
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1584 [14:05:23] <petn-randall> afidegnum: I'd try that. But it looks like malware to me, unless you're sure you or someone else put it there.
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1589 [14:06:02] <afidegnum> that's what i m also thinking of
1590 [14:06:14] <afidegnum> how do i scan any file containing a xmr tag ?
1591 [14:06:16] *** Joins: GenteelBen (GenteelBen@replaced-ip )
1592 [14:06:22] <afidegnum> i know of find / -name
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1594 [14:06:34] <afidegnum> but the other arguments is escaping me
1595 [14:06:43] <afidegnum> that's scan individual files in order to search of that tag
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1597 [14:07:53] <petn-randall> tag, as in file content?
1598 [14:08:01] <petn-randall> grep xmr *
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1600 [14:08:20] <afidegnum> .xml was the directory containg the *malware
1601 [14:08:30] <afidegnum> so i want to track the script generating that file
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1612 [14:14:39] <afidegnum> petn-randall: have you got somethig?
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1623 [14:20:08] <blackflow> afidegnum: got wordpress there?
1624 [14:20:29] <afidegnum> no, i m using drupal
1625 [14:21:34] <afidegnum> blackflow: but it's a kind of cms/web framework as well
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1627 [14:21:35] <blackflow> patched and up to date? there's been a few major vulns in it in the past few months.
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1630 [14:22:48] <jelly> afidegnum: replaced-url
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1632 [14:23:47] <afidegnum> jelly: when i cleck on xml i also saw something like cryptocurency
1633 [14:23:57] <afidegnum> now i need to find out how did it get there,
1634 [14:24:07] <afidegnum> possibly through web interface
1635 [14:24:25] <afidegnum> but i don't have an open ssh, cpanel, or ftp
1636 [14:24:34] <afidegnum> i closed most of them after using them
1637 [14:25:27] *** Quits: DerLG (~derlg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1638 [14:25:42] <blackflow> afidegnum: is your drupal patched and up to date? it had a few large vulns in the past few months.
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1641 [14:25:58] <afidegnum> blackflow: oooh... i remember,
1642 [14:26:18] <afidegnum> there is one which is not patched, let me look into that
1643 [14:26:23] <afidegnum> wow
1644 [14:26:24] <blackflow> also what's the ownership on those files? same user as the php service?
1645 [14:26:25] *** Joins: sander85 (~sander@replaced-ip )
1646 [14:26:34] <afidegnum> replaced-url
1647 [14:26:38] <blackflow> so that's your vector then
1648 [14:27:21] <afidegnum> thanks for enlightening, let me fix that immediately
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1650 [14:27:44] <blackflow> if I were you, I'd nuke and pave that thing. You can't be sure there's no rootkit there lurking.
1651 [14:28:03] <jelly> you can't be sure, but are you paid enough to be sure
1652 [14:28:13] <rdz> hey all. is there a log of what is shown on console during startup?
1653 [14:28:42] <rdz> the one that contains all the 'starting service xy' messages
1654 [14:29:21] <rdz> systemd is complaining about something but there is not enough time to read it
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1656 [14:31:29] <afidegnum> blackflow: jelly i m doing that now,
1657 [14:31:33] <afidegnum> shutting them down
1658 [14:31:37] <blackflow> rdz: systemctl list-units --failed
1659 [14:32:11] *** Parts: czer00 (~Matt@replaced-ip ) ()
1660 [14:32:16] <blackflow> afidegnum: no, "nuke and pave" means shutdown, reinstall from last known good backup. plus, patching up what needs to be patched or else it'll happen again.
1661 [14:32:34] <rdz> blackflow, not exactly what I asked, but helpful, too
1662 [14:32:47] <blackflow> afidegnum: it'd be wise to run some apparmor policies to prevent PHP from randomly writing out files. That or use systemd security options with some readonly and rw paths carefully laid out.
1663 [14:33:03] <rdz> it lists the failed units, but i owuld like to see the message to said something anbout 'ordering cycle'
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1665 [14:33:12] <rdz> i can remember only those two words
1666 [14:33:13] <blackflow> rdz: yeah, sorry I don't know how to view that same output, but if sd complained, this would probably show what it was
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1668 [14:33:39] <rdz> blackflow, sure.. thanks
1669 [14:34:00] <blackflow> rdz: you could `systemctl status` on each of hte failed units, maybe it'll mention ordering cycle
1670 [14:34:14] <afidegnum> ok
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1672 [14:34:56] <rdz> blackflow, it shows only the message from the service itself, but i found what i was looking for in th eoutput of 'journalctl' without args
1673 [14:35:47] <rdz> what does that mean: "ferm.service: Breaking ordering cycle by deleting job network-online.target/start"
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1677 [14:38:06] <blackflow> rdz: it means there's a problem in dependency ordering that systemd can't resolve without dropping some units out, in this case, lol, network-online.target start job
1678 [14:38:19] *** Quits: airwind (~belovent@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost sanity)
1679 [14:38:23] <blackflow> because pff who needs networking right.
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1681 [14:39:10] <rdz> blackflow, ah.. thanks. that explains a lot
1682 [14:39:15] <rdz> blackflow, :-)
1683 [14:39:49] * rdz dives into resolving systemd dependencies mess
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1685 [14:40:26] <limbo_> Are there any alternatives to (GNU) sleep that support multiple unit prefixes. e.g. something like: sleep 1h25m -> sleep 1h ; sleep 25m
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1690 [14:43:25] <petn-randall> limbo_: None that I know of, but you can easily just convert those values to seconds and pass them along.
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1692 [14:43:51] <hays> anyone know if it is likely that openssl 1.1.1 will make it into debian 9/stretch
1693 [14:44:16] <hays> this is the release that has TLS 1.3 in it
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1695 [14:44:51] <petn-randall> ,v openssl
1696 [14:44:53] <judd> Package: openssl on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.1e-2+deb7u20; wheezy-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb7u4; jessie: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-backports: 1.0.2l-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; buster: 1.1.0h-4; sid: 1.1.0h-4; experimental: 1.1.1~~pre7-1
1697 [14:45:08] <petn-randall> hays: The chance is 0%, there are no feature updates to stretch.
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1699 [14:45:42] <hays> not even as a backport?
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1705 [14:47:49] <hays> i was looking at the dependencies, and it does look like the experimental package is tied to a slightly newer libc6.. not sure if that is a real version dependency or not
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1707 [14:49:19] <hays> petn-randall: is that policy true for -backports as well? i know sometimes there will be a backport of some ackages but i don't know the rules/policy for inclusion
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1717 [14:56:16] <petn-randall> hays: I'd also say it's close to impossible to go to backports, because it's a core library. Besides, all the applications building against it would need to be updated, too, since the API likely changed.
1718 [14:57:01] <petn-randall> At least for 0-RTT handshakes I don't know how they'd implement that without core changes to the API.
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1725 [15:00:35] <jelly> hays: isn't TLS 1.3 still a draft
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1728 [15:01:10] <jelly> hays: and it's VERY unlikely that openssl, a rather portable piece of software, depends on a recent GNU libc.
1729 [15:01:17] <petn-randall> That too.
1730 [15:01:54] <jelly> deb binary builds in experimental are not meant for stable, they only work with sid (if they work at all)
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1732 [15:02:43] <mbucher_> Hi, is there a reason that debian security archive for stretch is signed with the security archive keys of wheezy and jessie instead of the ones for stretch (which were announceed here: replaced-url
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1734 [15:03:11] <jelly> hays: openssl cares about backwards compatibility so a backport should be possible, but complex if you want to do it right and not just ignore all the symbol differences and hope it works
1735 [15:04:01] * jelly had a feeling of deja vu
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1739 [15:04:52] <jelly> ah. [05:58] <jelly> hays: it's unlikely that openssl relies on a specific gnu libc version, only a specific build in experimental might. Those are not meant to be used with stable however. You'd have to do your own build. [05:58] <-- hays has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1740 [15:05:03] <petn-randall> hays: The source package has no build-dependencies against certain libc6 versions, that's just what comes out when you build it against a certain version.
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1743 [15:05:55] <petn-randall> mbucher_: They're signed with the stretch keys. What issue are you seeing?
1744 [15:06:33] <hays> ok, so it sounds like it probably will be backported at some point
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1746 [15:07:03] <hays> once it gets fully released by the openssl team, which should happen soon--it was waiting on the TLS 1.3 final spec
1747 [15:07:29] <hays> I agree that it would be weird if it actually had some specific libc6 dependency
1748 [15:07:34] <mbucher_> petn-randall: I downloaded the Release and Release.gpg file, verified it with gpg-command and it said that the wheezy and jessie keys were used
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1751 [15:09:17] <hays> how would I find the person/team responsible for managing openssl and perhaps asking to help
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1753 [15:09:31] <hays> s/asking for/offering to/
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1755 [15:10:02] <petn-randall> hays: To do what exactly?
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1759 [15:11:31] <hays> petn-randall: once it drops into unstable or testing, I could try to figure out how to package it as a backport.. but I'd want to check if the person/team actually wanted this help
1760 [15:12:01] <petn-randall> mbucher_: I see three signature, two belonging to jessie, and one belonging to stretch. Again, what problem are you experiencing?
1761 [15:12:01] <hays> ive always been curious to learn how to make a package
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1764 [15:12:31] <petn-randall> hays: You can try to backport it for fun, but I'm pretty sure it will never go into stable-backports.
1765 [15:12:49] <hays> really? what would block it from going in there?
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1767 [15:13:17] <mbucher_> petn-randall: No problems, just curious :)
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1772 [15:14:08] <petn-randall> mbucher_: All repository mirrors are always signed with the release key, and the previous release key, to allow for dist-upgrades.
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1776 [15:15:20] <hays> 1.1.1 should not break any binary compatibility from 1.1.0
1777 [15:15:36] <hays> From openssl "Minor releases that change the last digit, e.g. 1.1.0 vs. 1.1.1, can and are likely to contain new features, but in a way that does not break binary compatibility. This means that an application compiled and dynamically linked with 1.1.0 does not need to be recompiled when the shared library is updated to 1.1.1."
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1780 [15:16:41] <hays> and not sure how long Debian 9 is going to be around, but it looks like openssl will stop supporting 1.1.0 in about one year
1781 [15:17:04] <petn-randall> hays: There's no hard rule, but it's a core library, and whoever uploads it to backports will have to support it for the complete lifecycle. Supporting crypto modules is a hard job and I'm pretty sure nobody will do it.
1782 [15:17:50] <mbucher_> petn-randall: I trust you that this is true, however I still only see jessie and wheezy keys when verifying InRelease from stretch-repo on 212.211.132.250
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1784 [15:18:04] <jelly> petn-randall: um, *-backports uploads have no lifecycle promise at all do they?
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1786 [15:18:28] <mbucher_> petn-randall: I did: curl -v replaced-url
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1788 [15:18:37] <hays> petn-randall: I guess the decision for stable would be whether its easier to patch 1.1.0 themselves or move to 1.1.1 and get upstream help
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1790 [15:18:48] <petn-randall> jelly: replaced-url
1791 [15:18:50] <jelly> "upstream help"
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1793 [15:19:13] <petn-randall> hays: That's not how stable works.
1794 [15:19:51] <hays> well it would likely be the security team
1795 [15:19:52] <jelly> petn-randall: that's laughably different from actual practice, with few exceptions
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1797 [15:20:54] <petn-randall> mbucher_: This is the output I get: replaced-url
1798 [15:21:06] <petn-randall> mbucher_: You'll notice three signature, two from jessie, one from stretch.
1799 [15:21:08] <jelly> IME backports are throwaway maybe-once builds and "tracking unstable" or "tracking release+1" does not happen for 90% of the stuff in *-backports repo
1800 [15:21:33] * petn-randall shrugs.
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1802 [15:21:50] <petn-randall> jelly: I'm not involved much in backports, so I don't know how the team handles it.
1803 [15:22:02] <`whoami`> hey, do you know if there's a config file for xterm where I could make it start with some defaults options ? (like -ut, -wf and such)
1804 [15:22:04] <petn-randall> jelly: I'm fairly sure they don't allow upload from unstable though.
1805 [15:22:20] <hicks> backport has to come from testing iirc.
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1808 [15:22:43] <jelly> backports come from release+1
1809 [15:22:43] <petn-randall> mbucher_: Eh, I mean 1 from wheezy, 1 from jessie, 1 from stretch.
1810 [15:22:48] <hicks> altough on the lifetime support, whilst that's how it's written, I'll be surprised if there's many that support it once they've moved to the latest stable release
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1812 [15:23:03] <petn-randall> this ^
1813 [15:23:11] <`whoami`> I don't know if it's in ~/.Xresources as well; and if it is, I'm wondering about the syntax. I didn't manage to find anything related in the manpage, nor on google :\
1814 [15:23:18] <jelly> hicks: there are 4-5 maintainers that care.
1815 [15:23:54] <jelly> amusingly, nvidia blob guys are one of those
1816 [15:24:30] <mbucher_> petn-randall: That's what I get for the debian archive repo as well, but not for the security-archive (security.debian.org)
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1822 [15:25:25] <hays> it will be interesting to see how it plays out. openssl 1.1.1 is an "LTS release" and is binary compatible with 1.1.0, which sunsets in a year.
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1826 [15:26:51] <hays> Debian 9 was released 2017/06.. not sure how long debian's cycle is for stable releases
1827 [15:27:22] <slax0r> jessie was with us for quite some time before 9 came along, at least 2-3years iirc
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1829 [15:27:54] <slax0r> april 2015
1830 [15:28:00] <slax0r> was the release of jessie
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1833 [15:28:27] <hicks> hays: replaced-url
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1837 [15:31:31] <hays> so yeah. should be interesting what folks decide. Maybe it will depend on how long it takes before someone fundamentally breaks TLS 1.2, lol
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1840 [15:36:05] <hays> I can see what the openssl folks are trying to do.. allowing features in their point releases might make sense for a low-level security library
1841 [15:36:31] <hays> anyways, gotta run, thanks for the interesting conversation
1842 [15:37:20] <petn-randall> mbucher_: Indeed, I'm currently asking the ftp team why this is the case.
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1852 [15:48:33] <Zgrokl> hello, i updated to sid and now my networkmanager don't want to connect to pptp vpn, any idea ? Log say nothing
1853 [15:48:38] <petn-randall> hays_: TLS 1.2 contains a few dozen independant ciphers, so I doubt they'll all get broken at the same time.
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1870 [15:54:12] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: Thanks on testing our untested release branch. Support for testing/sid are in:
1871 [15:54:16] <petn-randall> !debian-next
1872 [15:54:17] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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1902 [16:07:58] <limbo_> petn-randall: long ago, I learned not to implement time in my own software.
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1917 [16:17:44] <elge> petn-randall, finally apt-cache policy ceph: replaced-url
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1919 [16:19:20] <elge> so I got two candidates and the newer one shows up, that is fine, I got `search` and `show` printing the relevant info now.
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1922 [16:19:48] <elge> however, when ever I try to install the package, it tells me about unmet deps that it cannot solve.
1923 [16:20:11] <elge> and there is no apparent reason why
1924 [16:21:01] <themill> elge: these packages aren't designed for Debian. There are any number of reasons why they can't be installed.
1925 [16:21:31] <elge> themill, well in the meanwhile I re-deployed the whole cluster a ubuntu/xenial guests.
1926 [16:21:51] <themill> those package are designed for that so if you want them, that makes sense
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1928 [16:22:00] <elge> because although they call their repo debian-mimic, only xenial and bionic packages are truly available.
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1930 [16:22:56] <jelly> misleading marketing and ignorance can make people think debian and ubuntu work the same
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1934 [16:23:31] <elge> well I believe in the case of my current issue with unmet deps, they do, and you guys could help)
1935 [16:23:35] <jelly> if your vendor support only Ubuntu LTS, well then, run Ubuntu LTS
1936 [16:23:47] <elge> yep, that is fixed already
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1960 [16:39:38] <elge> ok it is solved. I just had one repo pointing to `main` repository into sources.list, since those guests were brutally bootstrapped. I added other repos and more than main
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2005 [17:06:08] <thms> There's something I don't understand. I've updated two similar systems to stretch. Now, one of them has "libapache2-mod-php5" which is 5.6 and status (ii), and the other machine has libapache2-mod-php5 which is (rc) and 5.3
2006 [17:06:27] <greycat> rc is removed, but config files remain
2007 [17:06:31] <greycat> i.e. not purged
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2009 [17:07:23] <rdz> thms, beware that libapache2-mod-php5 is not part of stretch, but also not automatically upgraded
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2012 [17:08:06] <rdz> you need to manually upgrade by installing libapache2-mod-php which depends on libapache2-mod-php7
2013 [17:08:08] <thms> Mh, ok. So if I want libapache2-mod-php5 (5.6, ii) on the machine that has (5.3 rc), I just need to add Jessie to my sources.list and install it ?
2014 [17:08:12] <greycat> Yeah, the PHP 5->7 transition requires you to do extra steps yourself whenever you're ready.
2015 [17:08:27] <greycat> It doesn't HAVE 5.3 rc. rc means it's been removed.
2016 [17:09:00] <thms> Pardon my english.. I meant "shows". I want it to "HAVE" 5.6 just like the other machine
2017 [17:09:14] <greycat> If you want to install the 5.x libapache2-mod-php5 on the machine that does not have it, you'll need to add a jessie source for it.
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2019 [17:09:25] <thms> OK, thanks a lot!
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2021 [17:09:30] <greycat> If you only have stretch sources, you'll only be able to install the php7 version.
2022 [17:10:05] <thms> Indeed, thanks a lot !
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2030 [17:13:59] <emilsp> hiya, I'm running on the latest testing release. I've got a service which depends on the network.target, yet when it's started, /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist yet. Since I'm developing a daemon that will depend on the resol.conf existing, is there a better target to wait for?
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2037 [17:16:59] <greycat> emilsp: Assuming the "testing" part is irrelevant and you have the same issue on testing, it sounds like you need to change the interface from "allow-hotplug" to "auto" in /etc/network/interfaces, assuming this is a regular workstation or server.
2038 [17:17:07] <greycat> err, same issue on stable.
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2040 [17:18:02] <greycat> Networking is considered to be "up" for systemd unit purposes whenever all the interfaces marked "auto" are up. Interfaces marked "allow-hotplug" do not need to be up.
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2044 [17:19:09] <emilsp> greycat: hmm, this isn't really something that works out for us then. I'm assuming I can't change anything about the base install.
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2048 [17:20:47] <greycat> Good luck convincing the Debian boot team to default to regular workstation behavior instead of laptop/tablet/phone behavior. :(
2049 [17:21:11] <emilsp> Well, I don't really want to change debian's behaviour.
2050 [17:21:21] <emilsp> I just want to know if there's something I can do to work around this :)
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2052 [17:21:46] <greycat> Tell the computer's administrator to change the DHCP interface to auto.
2053 [17:22:47] <emilsp> As an application developer, I can't really afford to do that. There will be end users who will just expect a deb that will *just* work.
2054 [17:23:10] <greycat> Lots of things break with a default "allow-hotplug" setup. Like NFS. Just totally falls over and dies.
2055 [17:23:24] <emilsp> Yeah, I can imagine.
2056 [17:23:36] <greycat> But apparently in this decade people think it's more important to coddle laptop users.
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2059 [17:24:46] <emilsp> well, it's breaking for me on a VM, and the networking unit fails outright, as that one is looking for a non existant eth0 interface.
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2061 [17:25:09] <jelly> that sounds like your installation is misconfigured
2062 [17:25:29] <jelly> which is not surprising because... tesitng
2063 [17:25:38] <greycat> jelly: it's what you get if you stick the CD into a standard desktop PC and do a "Standard" (literally) install.
2064 [17:25:48] <emilsp> That sounds interesting, because I would've expected it to just work, it's dhcp for god's sake.
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2066 [17:26:12] <emilsp> and debian testing is what, code that's been stable and working for 3 years at least, right?
2067 [17:26:16] <jelly> I would expect anything in testing may be broken at any point in time
2068 [17:26:18] <greycat> It "works" in the sense that the interface eventually comes up and therefore creates a resolv.conf file containing whatever the DHCP server said to put in it.
2069 [17:26:27] <jelly> emilsp: absolutely not
2070 [17:26:47] <greycat> But things don't wait for that interface to come up, because you gotta get your pretty GDM3 login screen 5 seconds sooner.
2071 [17:26:49] <jelly> it's a constantly changing platform
2072 [17:26:55] <emilsp> jelly: then please forgive my sarcastic ignorance :( But we've somehow decided to target testing ?
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2074 [17:27:26] <greycat> emilsp: you can avoid a lot of this by doing your work on stable and then saying "On stretch, I have this problem: ..."
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2076 [17:27:47] <jelly> emilsp: those "we" ought to know better, or have a reasonably extensive Debian experience to things issues like those
2077 [17:27:59] <emilsp> fair, will try out stuff on that.
2078 [17:28:01] <jelly> to fix*
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2081 [17:28:51] <jelly> testing is used to see how your product will work on the next future release, and to fix bugs to make that release happen
2082 [17:29:30] <emilsp> oh wait
2083 [17:29:33] <emilsp> this is on stretch
2084 [17:29:50] <emilsp> 9.4 - stable since 2018-03-10
2085 [17:29:54] <emilsp> Ok then
2086 [17:30:05] <emilsp> How do I achieve what I want to achieve on debian stable then?
2087 [17:30:10] <jelly> yeah, stretch = stable since 2017-05-ish
2088 [17:30:34] <emilsp> ok, so, why does the networking.unit fail and tries to bring up a non-existant interface?
2089 [17:30:47] <emilsp> and what systemd unit to I depend on for a resolv.conf ?
2090 [17:30:55] <jelly> which interface _does_ exist?
2091 [17:31:07] <emilsp> ens3
2092 [17:31:11] <emilsp> and lo ofc
2093 [17:31:24] <jelly> thne you have a misconfiguration
2094 [17:32:14] <petn-randall> emilsp: /etc/resolv.conf is not a hard requirement for any networking, if you want to be specific about it. But if you configure it properly in /etc/network/interfaces, it will exist when the networking target is reached.
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2096 [17:32:31] <jelly> fix it, or change kernel boot parameters to disable "predictable network interface names"
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2098 [17:33:03] <emilsp> petn-randall: what do you mean by properly configuring something?
2099 [17:33:31] <emilsp> I never set my VM up to use any interface - by default, I expected DHCP to just work.
2100 [17:33:42] <greycat> If the networking.unit is actually *failing*, this is new information.
2101 [17:33:44] <jelly> the winner for Most Ironic Feature Name of 2017
2102 [17:33:54] <petn-randall> emilsp: If you configure ens3 correctly, that is either via DHCP or static config, and DNS is provided by either of them, it will exist when the target is reached.
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2104 [17:34:19] <greycat> petn-randall: what target?
2105 [17:34:28] <petn-randall> networking target.
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2107 [17:34:44] <jelly> emilsp: how was your VM provisioned? If there mention of eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces?
2108 [17:35:05] <greycat> petn-randall: this is incorrect. If the interface is marked allow-hotplug, WHICH IS THE DEFAULT BEHAVIOR of the Debian installer, you can reach networking target with only lo up.
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2111 [17:35:17] <emilsp> well, see, the ironic thing is, networking is working, once it boots. But clearly, if my service depends on the network.target and then fails to start because it can't read from /etc/resolv.conf, what you are saying is unfortunately not true. Do you have anything in mind that I could do to bring us both closer to a shared understanding of what is going on here?
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2113 [17:35:50] <emilsp> there's a difference between the networking.unit and the network.target
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2115 [17:36:04] <petn-randall> greycat: That's why I said "correctly", implying that it's the way they want it.
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2118 [17:36:39] <emilsp> jelly: I installed using the net install with gnome as the default DE, clicked next without much issues.
2119 [17:36:46] <greycat> petn-randall: He seems to be trying to write a package that will magically wait for ALL interfaces to be up instead of only the interfaces that are marked by a competent admin, presumably because his target audience is not competent admins.
2120 [17:36:53] <emilsp> I presume that most users will do the same thing.
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2122 [17:37:54] <petn-randall> I'm sure one can wait for some systemd or dbus event to get notified when the dynamically configured network by network-manager is up.
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2124 [17:38:11] <greycat> Maybe that's true, but if it is, I've never found it.
2125 [17:38:15] <emilsp> I don't believe I've got NetworkManager working.
2126 [17:38:37] <jelly> emilsp: you do if your user logs in and opens a Gnome session.
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2128 [17:38:49] <greycat> Oh, you said n-m. I've never intentionally used n-m. The one time I found it installed by accident, I removed it.
2129 [17:39:14] <jelly> (by default)
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2132 [17:40:00] <jelly> emilsp: so if your service expects network to be up before a user logs in, that might be an incorrect assumption (again, by default)
2133 [17:40:15] *** Quits: Venomen (~venomen@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2134 [17:40:25] <emilsp> I don't care about the user logging in.
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2136 [17:40:35] <emilsp> I want this service to start up as soon as the network is up.
2137 [17:40:58] <jelly> then you have to configure the network to go up regardless of user logging in.
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2139 [17:41:19] <jelly> and this seems to be a non-default config.
2140 [17:41:23] <emilsp> Somehow this works reliably on Arch and other distributions.
2141 [17:41:36] <emilsp> What exactly is non-default about this? And yes, this is with NetworkManager.
2142 [17:41:48] <greycat> Ugh, n-m. I can't help you with that.
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2144 [17:42:11] <jelly> emilsp: expecting network to be configured before login is non-default
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2146 [17:43:13] <emilsp> I don't even care about login. I want my systemd unit to be started after /etc/resolv.conf exists. Could you guys recommend a way to do this?
2147 [17:43:49] <petn-randall> emilsp: You're wrong in the assumption that on every machine /etc/resolv.conf exists.
2148 [17:43:57] <petn-randall> At any point in time.
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2152 [17:44:43] <blackflow> did anyone mention After=network-online.target yet?
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2154 [17:45:01] <emilsp> The app we're developing is essentially a nicer wrapper around openvpn and eventually wireguard that a a lay person can use, I presume our taret audience will have an /etc/resolv.conf on their machines at some point in time, no?
2155 [17:45:03] <greycat> blackflow: It doesn't work if the interface is marked allow-hotplug or whatever the N-M equivalent is.
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2157 [17:45:23] <emilsp> blackflow: no, but this might be it! Thanks :)
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2159 [17:45:25] <greycat> blackflow: and the allow-hotplug is the stpuid-ass DEFAULT and this person seems unwilling to accept "make the user fix their own computer" as a solution
2160 [17:45:31] <petn-randall> emilsp: If you want to have a point where /etc/resolv.conf definitely exists, you can configure a machine to do so. But the other way round does not exist: There is no guarantee that a system is configured that it exists at some point.
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2164 [17:46:37] <greycat> emilsp: the "obvious" but possibly undesirable way would be to check for it, and if it's not present, sleep for a second or two, check again, etc. until you've checked N times and then just abort.
2165 [17:46:39] <jelly> #847440 seems vaguely related
2166 [17:46:40] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2167 [17:46:43] <petn-randall> emilsp: But maybe tell us more about your problem, and we might find a solution to it.
2168 [17:47:03] <petn-randall> "/etc/resolv.conf must exist" is probably not the solution.
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2170 [17:47:13] <jelly> (and is unfixed in Debian, fixed in Ubuntu as replaced-url
2171 [17:47:54] <emilsp> Our daemon monitors changes to resolvconf once the user connects to a tunnel, since we try and ensure that the user's DNS requests don't leak, we try and override whatever changes that happen to resolv.conf during the lifetime of our tunnel. Afterwards, we reset the resolv.conf to what it was before + changes to it over the lifetime of the tunnel, if that is possible.
2172 [17:48:34] <greycat> *shudder*
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2174 [17:48:36] <jelly> emilsp: don't do that. Work with resolvconf package.
2175 [17:48:50] <jelly> how do you "override changes"?
2176 [17:49:00] <greycat> Yes, this is definitely what the resolvconf package is intended for.
2177 [17:49:03] <emilsp> in a very brutish, peasant-like way.
2178 [17:49:34] <jelly> this is literally what resolvconf was invented for
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2180 [17:49:56] <emilsp> So, these are the docs for it, right? replaced-url
2181 [17:49:58] <jelly> (resolvconf = piece of software Debian uses to manage contents of /etc/resolv.conf)
2182 [17:50:07] <greycat> ,info resolvconf
2183 [17:50:08] <judd> Package resolvconf (net, optional) in stretch/amd64: name server information handler. Version: 1.79; Size: 72.4k; Installed: 191k; Homepage: replaced-url
2184 [17:50:33] <emilsp> wis alioth.debian.org supposed to not be reachable?
2185 [17:50:59] <jelly> you can name your tunnel device in a specific way, and you can prioritize entries based on device naming
2186 [17:51:09] <jelly> I'm fuzzy about the details, sorry
2187 [17:51:30] <emilsp> In any case, thanks a lot guys, I will go away and investigate.
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2189 [17:51:50] <emilsp> But I'm guessing this would mean that we'll have to write code specifically for debian to support this, right?
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2191 [17:52:13] <greycat> replaced-url
2192 [17:52:22] <jelly> yes. It may or may not work on Debian-based derivatives.
2193 [17:53:12] <jelly> ubuntu goes the other way and sets up its own dnsmasq via N-M and only has nameserver 127.0.0.1
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2195 [17:53:28] <emilsp> I understand that this would be where one normally finds the dev docs, but the host is refusing my connections replaced-url
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2197 [17:53:43] <jelly> alioth is dead, that stuff should be migrated to...
2198 [17:53:58] <jelly> somewhere on salsa.debian.org presumably?
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2200 [17:54:39] <emilsp> do I have to have an account to access it ? :S
2201 [17:55:05] <greycat> You could start with replaced-url
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2204 [17:55:34] <jelly> emilsp: I cannot find traces of resolvconf even wit an account
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2209 [17:56:42] <jelly> starting from tracker.debian.org/resolvconf, replaced-url
2210 [17:56:45] <emilsp> also, jelly, thanks for pointing out that Ubuntu just does whatever it wants. This essentially means that we might leak on ubuntu :S. Thanks greycat.
2211 [17:57:29] <jelly> emilsp: hitting /etc/resolv.conf with an chattr +i hammer programatically sounds inherently racy anyway
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2213 [17:57:57] <emilsp> that wouldn't be what we do, we're far more devious than that.
2214 [17:58:00] <jelly> dnsmasq is actually quite nice
2215 [17:58:22] <jelly> and can route different zones to different forwarders
2216 [17:58:26] <blackflow> ubuntu no longer does that tho'. as of 16.10 they default to systemd-resolved which is an entirely separate world of hurt.
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2219 [17:58:53] <jelly> serves me right, I'm still on xenial until 18.04.1 is out
2220 [17:58:54] <greycat> Note to self: continue not using Ubuntu.
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2226 [17:59:27] <jelly> greycat: they also have a completely new way of configuring network, #netplan
2227 [17:59:37] <emilsp> wat
2228 [17:59:54] <jelly> it generates config for systemd-networkd.
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2230 [17:59:55] <blackflow> oh yeah
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2232 [18:00:12] <greycat> Drinking ALL the kool-aid.
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2234 [18:00:18] <blackflow> or more precisely, generates config for the selected backend, currently supported only NetworkManager and systemd-networkd.
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2241 [18:00:54] <jelly> because there was a feature or two they missed in networkd, and Canonical and RedHat are apparently unable to work together on open source projects
2242 [18:01:06] <jelly> so... netplan
2243 [18:01:40] <emilsp> there's no collaboration in open source :(
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2245 [18:01:58] <greycat> Maybe I'll retire or die before the world evolves into a place where nobody understands CONCEPT of a workstation.
2246 [18:02:21] <greycat> Although at the current rate it doesn't look hopeful.
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2250 [18:03:41] <emilsp> Well, surely, you can still use iface-up scripts if you want to, greycat
2251 [18:03:55] <jelly> workstations and gerenal-purpose computing for personal use is dying, they'll remain as basically expensive remnants for developers only in 10 years tops </troll>
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2253 [18:04:36] <jelly> there will _never_ be a year of linux on desktop
2254 [18:04:53] <greycat> "what's a desk" </millenial>
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2256 [18:05:15] <emilsp> I think they will never quite burn out, general purpose workstations are what most people use for work, whilst other types of devices will become more popular, I don't think our beloved workstations will become much less popular in the coming decade.
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2260 [18:06:08] <jelly> they're already a minority of personal computing devices sold.
2261 [18:06:46] <emilsp> yea, but that's because most people don't need or use a personal computer.
2262 [18:07:09] <emilsp> I think as long as there'll be desk jobs, there will be workstations.
2263 [18:07:23] <jelly> you'll end up with having to buy an equivalent of a 90s unix workstation, expensive as hell, if you want to code your own apps on it
2264 [18:08:29] <jelly> emilsp: those won't be general-purpose devices, but iOS and ChromeOS and AzureOS walled garden units
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2266 [18:08:47] <emilsp> if they could be, they would be already.
2267 [18:09:04] <jelly> we're going there.
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2270 [18:09:27] <emilsp> the trend is pointed towards there, but that doesn't mean that we'll reach hell.
2271 [18:09:30] <emilsp> I hope.
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2273 [18:09:56] <jelly> 10 years tops, see ms and apple close down installing non-store apps
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2275 [18:10:16] <blackflow> AI will replace the need for keyboard and mice. the interfaces of yesteryear are doomed.
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2279 [18:11:58] <jelly> you want to run linux, buy an expensive server
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2283 [18:12:20] <emilsp> nono, buy the linux (tm) app from the respective walled garden shoppe
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2286 [18:12:36] <emilsp> with a full keyboard emulator
2287 [18:12:46] <jelly> emilsp: you're joking, but ChromeOS can now run native GNU/Linux apps.
2288 [18:13:03] <emilsp> how is that a bad thing, I think the work they've done to support that is really cool.
2289 [18:13:05] <bites> debian doesn't even have a netplan package :o
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2291 [18:13:41] <jelly> bites: you think it's in Canonical's interest to package it up nicely for anything but Ubuntu for free?
2292 [18:13:44] <emilsp> in fact, I'd rather give my mom a chromebook than a linux laptop that I can ssh into to fix her troubles. Over a 40 kbit uplink
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2294 [18:14:46] <blackflow> isn't chromebook just a fancy interface for Téh Clöud Appz?
2295 [18:14:49] <bites> i don't know what's in canonical's interest. things tend to flow back from canonical to debian sometimes.
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2298 [18:15:29] <jelly> bites: only for core stuff that already exists in both
2299 [18:15:52] <jelly> Unity never appeared in usable state
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2301 [18:16:16] <bites> but that needed patches to other packages, didn't it?
2302 [18:16:33] <jelly> duh
2303 [18:16:34] <emilsp> unity needed it's own gtk patches, no? Or was it qt?
2304 [18:16:47] <blackflow> it's based on gnome3
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2306 [18:17:02] <jelly> what else would flow back but patches
2307 [18:18:03] <jelly> emilsp: some gtk patching but not a lot, a whole new systray, er, appindicator API and library, config and a plugin for compiz, that's all it is
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2309 [18:18:20] <bites> software like unattended-upgrades
2310 [18:18:39] <jelly> that crap doesn't work well even in Ubuntu
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2313 [18:19:24] <jelly> I'd say it _can't_ work well without significant manpower added, policy and implementation wise
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2315 [18:19:26] <Sir_Designer> replaced-url
2316 [18:20:00] <emilsp> jelly: please don't get me started on appindicator/systray issues :(
2317 [18:20:20] <blackflow> funny thing is, Unity was dropped from official maintainership so Canonical would stop wasting time on the desktop. But now they, again, have to customize stuff because GNOME is such a burning trash can and is only going downhill with each new release and features removed.
2318 [18:20:21] <jelly> emilsp: and just as things started working reasonably well, they gave up on it :-)
2319 [18:20:36] <emilsp> yep, dumpster fires all around
2320 [18:21:07] <jelly> blackflow: that's a RH <-> Canonical issue. Canonical just doesn't have engineers to dedicate for that work
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2323 [18:21:47] <jelly> they're making paychecks elsewhere, not the desktop. But this is more a #debian-offtopic rant.
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2326 [18:22:21] <blackflow> yeah but I just find it very ironic that they wanted to distance themselves from all that work.... only to find themselves doing it again because of their poor choice of default desktop.
2327 [18:22:33] <blackflow> should've gone KDE and call it a day.
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2331 [18:23:17] <jelly> KDE did not have anything resembling stable/LTS until very recently
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2333 [18:24:17] <blackflow> that was still before gnome was decided to be the default with 17.10, wasn't it?
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2343 [18:28:28] <blackflow> Too bad tho'. Jessie + GNOME3 was the bestest (full) desktop experience I had. Stable and smooth.
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2345 [18:29:02] <jelly> let me tell you about kde3 on what, squeeze? lenny?
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2350 [18:31:44] <Biontry> replaced-url
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2354 [18:33:01] <blackflow> jelly: kde3 on OpenSuSE was my first linux desktop experience. :)
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2360 [18:34:02] <jelly> (don't click that tinyurl shit)
2361 [18:34:28] <blackflow> what is it, pron?
2362 [18:34:47] <jelly> some altervista IP tracker
2363 [18:34:57] <blackflow> ah
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2366 [18:37:44] <DUKENUKEM> whats up guys im on a lenovo x1 carbon gen 6, get a blank screen when trying to install (boot from usb drive). any ideas? tried using the BIOS options from the wiki on the 4th/5th gen laptop
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2368 [18:38:23] <jelly> DUKENUKEM: which cpu is in there?
2369 [18:38:37] <DUKENUKEM> Intel® Core™ i7-8650U (1.9-4.2GHz, 4MB L3 cache)
2370 [18:38:57] <jelly> that might be too new for stretch kernel
2371 [18:39:28] <DUKENUKEM> from what i read this laptop requires a 4.14 kernel
2372 [18:39:35] <jelly> try weekly or daily testing install builds, see if there's any difference
2373 [18:39:35] <DUKENUKEM> and yeah stretch is 4.9 i think?
2374 [18:39:49] <DUKENUKEM> how stable are those testing builds :P
2375 [18:39:54] <jelly> not at all
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2377 [18:40:11] <jelly> they wouldn't be called "testing" but "stable" if they were!
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2379 [18:40:15] <DUKENUKEM> hehe
2380 [18:40:34] <jelly> does that thing have wired internet?
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2382 [18:40:45] <jelly> or is it only on dongle
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2384 [18:41:39] <DUKENUKEM> no wired internet, only that iwlwifi
2385 [18:41:55] <DUKENUKEM> nonfree :\
2386 [18:42:01] <DUKENUKEM> are there isos for unstable builds?
2387 [18:42:02] <jelly> then you'll have to use the unofficial images with firmware, doubly untested
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2390 [18:42:45] <jelly> start at replaced-url
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2393 [18:43:30] <jelly> eg. this one down there at replaced-url
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2395 [18:43:43] <DUKENUKEM> awesome
2396 [18:43:45] <DUKENUKEM> thanks for the info
2397 [18:43:49] <DUKENUKEM> ill let you know how it goes
2398 [18:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1645
2399 [18:44:03] <jelly> good luck. Don't buy latest hw if you want to run Linux without issues
2400 [18:44:31] <emilsp> hey, I bought a thinkpad the moment it came out, works pretty well, except for wayland.
2401 [18:44:33] <jelly> also, ##ibmthinkpad channel may or may not be helpful
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2404 [18:45:37] <jelly> ,kernels
2405 [18:45:38] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.16.0-rc6-686 (4.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.16-2); buster: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.12-1); stretch-backports: 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae (4.16.12-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-6-686-pae (3.16.56-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
2406 [18:45:39] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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2414 [18:49:25] <emilsp> DUKENUKEM: I've had more luck with kernels 4.15 and above.
2415 [18:49:55] <jelly> if you manage to get things going with buster,
2416 [18:49:58] <jelly> !debian-next
2417 [18:49:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2418 [18:50:17] <DUKENUKEM> roger that
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2432 [18:59:45] <DUKENUKEM> i was able to boot stable install
2433 [18:59:46] <DUKENUKEM> 12:59 DUKENUKEM| i wasnt able to get debian to even boot into the installer with my 6th gen,but enabling UEFI only in the bios and
2434 [18:59:50] <DUKENUKEM> turning CSM to YES made it work
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2438 [19:00:21] <DUKENUKEM> uefi only was default setting, but CSM to yes i had to do myself
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2487 [19:30:35] <jelly> DUKENUKEM: uefi probably only works with secure boot disabled
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2493 [19:35:22] <oerheks> In your bios, disable FastBoot and Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT) .. ??
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2515 [19:52:39] <jim> hi, trying to bump all the fonts (menu, on-window labels, etc) in lmms, google search doesn't reveal useful hits... also, I need to know my current screen resolution... how can I do those?
2516 [19:53:14] <greycat> for current resolution I use xdpyinfo | less and then find the line that says... um...
2517 [19:53:25] <greycat> dimensions: 1920x1080 pixels (508x285 millimeters)
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2520 [19:53:41] <jim> thanks :)
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2523 [19:54:33] <jelly> xrandr will tell you current resolution for all enabled screens
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2525 [19:54:50] * greycat figured there were multiple ways to do it
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2529 [19:56:41] <jelly> right, and xdpyinfo uses older APIs and will only know about the whole virtual screen size
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2536 [20:00:12] <DUKENUKEM> hmm
2537 [20:00:15] <DUKENUKEM> maybe i should just not use efi
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2555 [20:10:09] <Voss> Hi folks
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2557 [20:10:17] <Voss> I encountered a problem trying to install Debian
2558 [20:10:22] <Voss> replaced-url
2559 [20:10:46] <Voss> The debian install seems to freeze after I selected 'Guided - use entire disk' in the 'Partition Disks' part of the installation process
2560 [20:10:51] <Voss> Any help is greatly appreciated
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2583 [20:22:16] <maher> my laptop can't see it's internal hard disc - it can boot from usb though - any advice on how I can fix this?
2584 [20:22:25] <Tom-_> sorry, Voss, i have no idea. maybe post again with more detail sometime
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2588 [20:23:46] <maher> (i can boot from usb and see the internal drive, it just won't boot from the internal drive directly...)
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2590 [20:24:31] <jim> maher, did it used to work?
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2592 [20:25:37] <maher> jim - yes it worked for several months until today, when it stopped booting after the battery ran out when it was on standby - it stopped booting properly and i tried to use a netinstall disc to recue
2593 [20:25:49] <maher> rescue it
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2595 [20:26:51] <jim> I wonder if something (like the grub instal) got messed up when the battery ran out
2596 [20:27:29] <jim> so you've booted a netinstall?
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2599 [20:27:56] <maher> jim: probably - how do i fix it? I re-installed using the buster netinstall media, but it still won't see its internal drive on boot
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2603 [20:28:55] <mnuhmnuh> maher: define "can't see". do you see a grub boot menu? can you get into single user login/recovery mode?
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2605 [20:29:10] <jim> when you reinstalled with a buster netinstall (that's correct, right?), did its partitioner see the drive?
2606 [20:29:50] <maher> mnuhmnuhL i get a splash screen on boot with an icon of a hd and a magnifying glass, and the text "No Bootable Device"
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2609 [20:30:17] <maher> mnuhmnuh: if i press f2 on boot i can get to the bios menu, which seems to see the hd and have it first in boot order
2610 [20:30:44] <jim> also, where did you install grub on the buster install when it came time to do it?
2611 [20:30:45] <maher> jim: yes the buster installer can see the internal hd
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2616 [20:31:31] <mnuhmnuh> maher: bad install, bad drive? hmph.
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2623 [20:33:06] <maher> mnuhmnuh: i can use the netinstall usb in rescue mode and mount the hd and chroot in - I think I messed something up with the boot process, but I don't know what
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2626 [20:33:45] <greycat> Is SecureBoot involved somehow? I know nothing about it except that it exists and sometimes messes things up.
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2628 [20:34:22] <maher> greycat: i turned off secure boot in the bios...
2629 [20:34:28] <mnuhmnuh> or maybe just needs a grub-install?
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2631 [20:35:17] <mnuhmnuh> to the right place (device, not ptn)?
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2634 [20:36:30] <brontosaurusrex_> microdisplacement part3 replaced-url
2635 [20:36:53] <mnuhmnuh> wtf?
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2637 [20:37:07] <brontosaurusrex_> wrong channel
2638 [20:37:07] <maher> mnuhmnuh: i ran it from the rescue disc menu - i will try running it from the chroot...
2639 [20:37:56] <greycat> !reinstall grub
2640 [20:37:57] <dpkg> See replaced-url
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2644 [20:38:39] * mnuhmnuh ooohh, good one.
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2647 [20:41:07] <mnuhmnuh> surprised to see dpkg recommend grml. a debian install image ought to work.
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2663 [20:48:31] <maher> ok - i think at some point i installed the efi grub instead of the pc grub - maybe this messed with something - but i think the machine supports both bios and efi - how do i know which one i should be using?
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2670 [20:53:43] <greycat> First clue is whether your intended boot disk has an EFI partition.
2671 [20:53:56] <mnuhmnuh> maher: is this dual boot win & linux? do you need efi?
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2682 [20:59:05] <maher> linux only - how do i know if i have an efi partition? I don't think so...
2683 [20:59:33] <maher> but there used to be one before the reinstall
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2685 [20:59:53] <greycat> Well, if there isn't one now, then UEFI booting will definitely not work.
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2689 [21:01:44] <maher> thanks for your help! - got to run errands - will be back at some point...
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2692 [21:03:54] <Voss> Tom-_: with more detail?
2693 [21:04:39] <Tom-_> Voss: yeah, maybe try a few more things and post that too
2694 [21:04:49] <Tom-_> sometimes helps
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2696 [21:07:20] <mnuhmnuh> i'm thankful i saw ultrix, aix, hpux, sunos, ... before stumbling into linux. kids these days don't have that luxury.
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2712 [21:18:23] <hypn0> won't *efi be fixed in next release
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2717 [21:20:52] <jhutchins_wk> hypn0: What about efi?
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2722 [21:25:14] <hypn0> won't it be fixed next time jhutchins_wk
2723 [21:25:41] <hypn0> so you won't have to mess with the bios
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2726 [21:27:02] <jhutchins_wk> hypn0: I don't know, I've been working with efi for ten years on systems that don't have a BIOS, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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2728 [21:27:42] <jhutchins_wk> hypn0: If I understand the current arrangement, you can optionally boot a system in "legacy" mode and it will behave as if it were a pre-efi bios system, but that's optional.
2729 [21:27:44] <hypn0> when computer starts, *efi, you have to change hardware settings
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2731 [21:28:04] <jhutchins_wk> hypn0: It depends on how you set it up.
2732 [21:28:12] <hypn0> sorry, mixing bios/*efi
2733 [21:28:33] <jhutchins_wk> !efi
2734 [21:28:33] <dpkg> Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later releases support installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported. replaced-url
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2738 [21:29:53] <hypn0> yeah, should be fixed in next release, so you buy new computer, and just install linux :-)
2739 [21:30:16] <greycat> I still don't know what problem you're talking about.
2740 [21:30:41] <reckneck_> Vinchi you here
2741 [21:30:43] <greycat> Do you mean "having to tell the firmware to boot the install CD in legacy mode if you don't want to do an EFI grub install"?
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2744 [21:32:27] <hypn0> no, not having to worryy abt buying an *efi system, then turning off secure boot
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2746 [21:32:41] <greycat> Oh, secure boot? I still don't know anything about secure boot.
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2750 [21:33:32] <hypn0> hy I still get bios systems, easier :-)
2751 [21:33:39] <hypn0> why*
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2757 [21:38:48] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Secure Boot was developed by Intel under Microsoft's urging as a way to prevent people from installing Linux on systems built for Windows.
2758 [21:39:27] <hypn0> yeah,that's why it's a bug needing fixing :-)
2759 [21:39:32] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Some of Intel's other customers took them aside and did a little explaining, and Intel "fixed" it so you still can install what you want.
2760 [21:39:34] <mnuhmnuh> jhutchins_wk: the party line. no it was to protect against boot viruses.
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2763 [21:40:03] <jhutchins_wk> mnuhmnuh: Not according to the Intel engineers I knew at the time.
2764 [21:40:09] <mnuhmnuh> i've never seen one, but that's why it exists.
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2766 [21:40:51] <jhutchins_wk> hypn0: Secure Boot compatibility is something you pay for, not something you fix.
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2769 [21:42:09] <mnuhmnuh> jhutchins_wk: just because the other guys are a-holes doesn't mean they're conspiring against you.
2770 [21:42:10] <poprocks> I don't really remember tre being any tranansparency with secure boot being introduced. It seems like it just suddenly appeared one day.
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2772 [21:42:55] <mnuhmnuh> poprocks: then redhat and canonical stood up and said wut?
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2774 [21:43:26] <mnuhmnuh> ma/intel backed off.
2775 [21:43:34] <mnuhmnuh> s/ma/ms/
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2777 [21:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1651
2778 [21:44:27] <poprocks> Isn't it convenient that MS always gets to be on the ground floor with these things to be ready to have software that supports it from day zero, and everyone else is then left scrambling.
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2785 [21:46:01] <mnuhmnuh> poprocks: ms is being pummeled in the press for supporting ice separating kids from illegals (techdirt). real stoopid co.
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2802 [21:54:24] <Tech_8> hi
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2844 [22:17:47] <danwellby> can someone tell me why this is happing? replaced-url
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2846 [22:18:11] <rant> I need some ass-sistance cause I just locked up my machine due to totally running out of memory without any swap and sysd/jounald went nuts.. I managed to SAK and free up about 700-800MB in time but beore I could reboot to stop whatever was going on it was eating up the space I just freed on the rootfs.. I'm not really sure what happened I dont see how journald could've possibly eaten up like 400MB or more
2847 [22:18:16] <rant> in the minute or so it took me to get the system down. I need to free that space back up any suggestions?
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2854 [22:19:31] <rant> /var/log is over 600MB and I dont know systemd well enough to know what to do or where all it was chewing up hdd space
2855 [22:19:49] <greycat> well, start with "cd /var/log; du -sk *" or something
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2857 [22:20:08] <rant> is it still save to just delete logs in /var/log with systemd/journald?
2858 [22:20:13] <rant> safe even
2859 [22:20:25] <greycat> Truncating is better than removing, typically.
2860 [22:20:27] <annadane> danwellby, first of all give us your /etc/apt/sources.list - paste to paste.debian.net
2861 [22:20:42] <greycat> Beyond that, *which file* are you thinking of messing with?
2862 [22:21:04] <rant> whichever one is 600MB :P
2863 [22:21:08] * rant looks
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2865 [22:21:40] <danwellby> replaced-url
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2867 [22:21:56] <rant> greycat: daemon and syslog are about 300mb each
2868 [22:22:45] <rant> greycat: how would I go about merely truncating rather than deleting these files?
2869 [22:22:51] <greycat> > filename
2870 [22:23:06] <rant> o.O
2871 [22:23:56] <Voss> RIght, I see Tom-_
2872 [22:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1636
2873 [22:24:16] <annadane> i'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that sources.list, actually
2874 [22:24:17] <Voss> I'm not sure how the forum post isn't sufficient info Tom-_
2875 [22:24:21] <Voss> In all honesty
2876 [22:24:25] <annadane> anyone else know?
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2879 [22:25:25] <rant> seems like its mostly all lines about getty@tty1.service: having no holdoff time, scheduling restart followed by stop job pending, delaying restart.. repeated over and over 300mb worth
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2881 [22:25:54] <rant> being that its the same message I could just use sed I suppose?
2882 [22:25:55] <greycat> If it continues writing them after the truncation then you'll have to find out why, to stop them.
2883 [22:26:06] <rant> I rebooted to stop it :P
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2885 [22:26:14] <rant> I just want the space back.. its an 8GB ssd
2886 [22:26:15] <greycat> *Did* it stop? If so, that's good.
2887 [22:26:22] <greycat> Truncate the file and you should be fine.
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2889 [22:26:44] <rant> yeah it def stopped or we wouldnt be having this conversation because I'd be out of disk space
2890 [22:27:33] <mnuhmnuh> danwellby: videolan?
2891 [22:27:42] <rant> all my monitors in my panel are chilled out now I just am at only like 300MB available on /
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2893 [22:27:54] <rant> I need that 600MB back
2894 [22:28:04] <greycat> Truncate the file. Do it already.
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2897 [22:29:00] <rant> I'm not a bash expert like you. I don't understand what you said to do
2898 [22:29:01] <danwellby> mnuhmnuh, vlc as libcss was missing when I built the node
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2900 [22:29:14] <greycat> Type the > sign and then press the space bar and then type the filename and then press Enter.
2901 [22:29:30] <karlpinc> rant: That will truncate the file to 0 bytes.
2902 [22:29:49] <mnuhmnuh> danwellby: videolan stable, on stretch. frankendebian?
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2904 [22:30:09] <rant> hmm.. idk how that works but I'll take your word for it
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2908 [22:30:40] <greycat> It runs the null command with stdout redirected to the file you are truncating. So, the shell opens the file for write/truncation, does nothing, then closes the file.
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2910 [22:30:59] <greycat> If this is too simple, you can use a longer command like true > filename
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2912 [22:31:07] <mnuhmnuh> cat > file ;; ctrl-d
2913 [22:31:15] <karlpinc> echo -n "" > filename
2914 [22:31:21] <danwellby> It is one of debian's own official servers spitting out the issue
2915 [22:31:27] <danwellby> E: The repository 'replaced-url
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2920 [22:32:32] <danwellby> I could rebuild the laptop if needed
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2927 [22:33:54] <mnuhmnuh> danwellby: better to use replaced-url
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2929 [22:34:11] <danwellby> there is a -5 error with uk.debian.org
2930 [22:34:18] <greycat> Or use one of the actual correct round robin names, like replaced-url
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2937 [22:36:01] <annadane> ah.
2938 [22:36:06] <annadane> should've checked more closely
2939 [22:36:46] <danwellby> huh, that worked thank you
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2942 [22:37:26] <mnuhmnuh> what worked?
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2945 [22:38:31] <danwellby> changing uk.debian.org to deb.debian.org
2946 [22:38:48] * mnuhmnuh snoopydance!
2947 [22:39:00] <annadane> SUPPERTIME!?
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2957 [22:46:25] *** Quits: TheManWithNoSock (~paige@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2969 [22:52:30] <rant> I'm not sure what exactly took place while all this was going on.. but near as I can tell it was trying to login on tty1 that was what made shit worse
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2972 [22:53:05] <rant> I'd done that because my keyboard has no sysrq.. I had to dig in my drawer to pull out that little keyboard remote I have to SAK
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2976 [22:53:54] <rant> I need to make some swap space to avoid this problem :P
2977 [22:54:38] *** Quits: argusbr (~down@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2978 [22:54:45] <mnuhmnuh> what does that even mean?
2979 [22:55:41] <rant> what does WHAT mean?
2980 [22:55:42] *** Quits: argus (~down@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2981 [22:56:05] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2982 [22:56:30] <greycat> Not sure what it meant, but *my* thoughts are "how would adding swap have avoided being spammed by a broken tty1 login of some kind"
2983 [22:56:39] *** Quits: schu-r (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: schu-r)
2984 [22:57:01] <jelly> "my /var/log is on a tmpfs"
2985 [22:57:04] <rant> the problem started with running out of ram.. I went to tty1 to try kill something since I couldnt sysrq due to lack of a sysrq key
2986 [22:57:15] <rant> if I'd had swap I wouldnt have been locking up to begin with
2987 [22:57:30] *** Quits: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2988 [22:57:37] <jelly> or so you think
2989 [22:57:59] <jelly> lack of swap makes OOM trigger sooner
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2993 [22:58:46] <rant> swapping will slow things down but give you time to fix the issue
2994 [22:58:51] *** Joins: rpifan_ (~rpifan@replaced-ip )
2995 [22:59:08] <rant> OOM situation on the other hand doesnt slow things down, it screeches them to a halt :P
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2999 [22:59:43] *** Parts: TryingSofter (~TryingSof@replaced-ip ) ()
3000 [23:00:05] <jelly> swapping will make a machine a lot more unusable than OOM
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3004 [23:00:55] <rant> idk I still think vlc is just using too much f'n memory.. its treating my ram like an all you can eat buffet
3005 [23:00:56] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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3007 [23:01:26] <greycat> nom nom nom
3008 [23:01:38] *** Joins: jhutchin1_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
3009 [23:01:39] *** Quits: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3010 [23:01:50] <rant> and when it does it, its not cache, its showing dark green on my graph.. cache and shared are a lighter green
3011 [23:02:12] *** Joins: ToBeFree (~tobefree@replaced-ip )
3012 [23:02:38] <rant> it starts out a few hundred megs.. reasonable.. after playing a few minutes It's consumed gigabytes worth
3013 [23:02:56] *** Joins: rtmataeu34 (~energyd@replaced-ip )
3014 [23:03:05] <rant> which is fine if I'm only running a terminal with mosh .. but if I got chromium open like I did.. thats a different story
3015 [23:03:09] *** Joins: Ellied (~ellie@replaced-ip )
3016 [23:03:44] <hypn0> how much ram you talking abt
3017 [23:03:52] <greycat> #757526 is the first google hit
3018 [23:03:53] <judd> Bug replaced-url
3019 [23:04:30] <rant> I have 4Gb which is shared with video, vlc is using like 1.8GB or more most of the time to play rather small local files
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3022 [23:05:06] <greycat> maybe you should stop using vlc
3023 [23:05:10] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3024 [23:05:15] <greycat> are other players having the same issue?
3025 [23:05:19] *** Joins: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip )
3026 [23:05:30] <jelly> I have no clude about "dark green", can you translate that to "free" output
3027 [23:05:38] <hypn0> I don't have vlc, mpv
3028 [23:06:08] <johnkeates> lol, other players, vlc isn't the best, but the rest is so much worse :p
3029 [23:06:23] <hypn0> dvds play in stretch too now
3030 [23:06:23] <rant> I'm referring to mate system monitor panel applet and the fact it can color code differnt things
3031 [23:06:24] *** Joins: frank1e (~frank1e@replaced-ip )
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3034 [23:07:04] <rant> johnkeates: yeah thats the issue.. mpv has no interface at all like mplayer it was based on.. and the rest of em are severly lacking as well
3035 [23:07:12] <jelly> I'm referring to "helping deciphering GUI components over irc is silly, show text output"
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3037 [23:07:28] *** Quits: ableto (~cryptum@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3038 [23:07:35] <johnkeates> cvlc or something like that exists that does no gui but only playback with console controls IIRC
3039 [23:07:47] <rant> vlc has a media library I can use to build playlists and perform shuffle plaback and such easily
3040 [23:08:24] <jelly> possibly easier than mpv -shuffle /some/dir
3041 [23:08:25] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3042 [23:08:29] <hypn0> there are guis for mpv too, smplayer
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3046 [23:08:45] <rant> but I swear while its not a typical memory leak where it just keeps eating till there is no more, it eats more than I can imagine it reasonable needs and isnt doing it as shared/cache so other things can use it if need be
3047 [23:09:10] *** Parts: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) ()
3048 [23:09:35] *** rpifan_ is now known as rpifan
3049 [23:09:44] *** Quits: finlstrm (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3050 [23:09:48] <rant> I rather my video lag than anything else
3051 [23:09:57] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3052 [23:09:59] <jelly> I can honestly say I've never seen vlc eat lots of RAM, unless it was used for complex transcoding
3053 [23:10:23] *** Quits: p4p0l0 (~mlkkk@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3054 [23:10:31] <jelly> like muxing 9 streams with a geometry into a new mosaic stream
3055 [23:11:01] <jelly> and mpv has a perfect interface, keyboard only :-)
3056 [23:11:12] <annadane> i wonder if trying it with another user helps at all
3057 [23:11:15] *** Quits: beaver (~none@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3058 [23:11:17] <annadane> though i wouldn't especially see why
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3060 [23:11:30] *** Quits: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3061 [23:11:38] <rant> well I'm typically decoding mp4(h264/aac) from a USB SATA drive thats encrypted, and its usually low res.. 480p on average.. sometimes as much as 720p or as little as 188p and upscaling it to 1024x768
3062 [23:11:39] *** beaver_ is now known as beaver
3063 [23:12:05] <hypn0> you have an mpv config file too
3064 [23:12:18] <rant> files usually range rom about 20mb to 300mb in file size
3065 [23:13:07] <jelly> is this an x86 machine or some embedded arm or what?
3066 [23:13:47] *** Quits: tymczenko (~tymczenko@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3067 [23:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1625
3068 [23:14:08] <rant> HP t520 ThinClient (AMD GX-212JC SOC with Radeon(TM) R2E Graphics) 4GB ram / 8GB SSD
3069 [23:14:17] <jelly> x86, then
3070 [23:14:19] <rant> dual displays
3071 [23:14:47] <jelly> _and_ embedded, kinda
3072 [23:14:56] <rant> yeah pretty much..
3073 [23:16:48] <jelly> do you have vaapi decoding?
3074 [23:17:49] <rant> Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl aperfmperf eagerfpu pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 xsave lahf_lm kaiser tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority dtherm
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3080 [23:18:51] <jelly> rant: vainfo command
3081 [23:18:57] *** Quits: dave4925 (dave4925@replaced-ip ) (Quit: meh)
3082 [23:19:16] <jelly> it's gpu and driver functionality
3083 [23:19:35] <rant> ah
3084 [23:20:02] *** Quits: elliot007 (elliot007@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quiting...)
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3087 [23:21:24] <jelly> hm, I'm not sure whether amd gpu do vaapi or vdpau
3088 [23:21:59] <jelly> if vainfo shows nothing, try vdpauinfo, and install mesa-vdpau-drivers before that
3089 [23:21:59] <rant> jelly: seems like vaapi replaced-url
3090 [23:22:14] <rant> I had to install that vainfo thing
3091 [23:22:42] <jelly> right, so you should have accelerated h264 decoding
3092 [23:24:09] <jelly> I don't know whether vlc gets it right automatically. mpv in stretch needs an explicit --hwdec=vaapi I think
3093 [23:24:16] *** Quits: nolsen (nolsen@replaced-ip##) (Quit: SuchZNC - Such ZNC, many free, w0w... -- ##replaced-url
3094 [23:24:28] *** Quits: Anthony_Bourdain (znc1@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3095 [23:25:00] <rant> just realized those cpu flags were for the Core2Duo E8400 not the AMD GX-212JC
3096 [23:25:26] <rant> I used /exec -o lscpu|grep Flags: not thinking about the fact I'm running irssi remotely
3097 [23:26:05] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip )
3098 [23:26:16] <rant> fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good acc_power nopl nonstop_tsc extd_apicid aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt
3099 [23:26:22] <rant> topoext perfctr_nb bpext ptsc perfctr_l2 cpb hw_pstate vmmcall bmi1 xsaveopt arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold overflow_recov
3100 [23:26:29] <rant> hmm that was two lines.. looked like only one
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3102 [23:26:38] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3103 [23:26:55] <rant> but it was the virualization that tipped me off which this doesnt have
3104 [23:27:00] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip )
3105 [23:27:10] <jelly> it does have, amd's svm
3106 [23:27:24] <jelly> but not relevant
3107 [23:29:29] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3108 [23:29:39] <rant> it shows hyper threading.. I thought hyper threaded CPUs show up like seperate cores or each thread..
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3113 [23:31:28] <rant> says two cpu, cores per socket 2, threads per core 1.
3114 [23:31:31] <jelly> none of that matters for memory usage in video decoding and reproduction
3115 [23:31:54] <rant> yeah, I'm just realizing these thigns for the first time :P
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3118 [23:32:46] <rant> thought a hyperthreaded dual core would be 4 threads but this isnt.. maybe its just some odd configuration since its an SoC
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3122 [23:34:57] <rant> I never did benchmark the media extensions.. I compared crypto, math, integer ops, disk i/o etc with a Pentium M 1.8 and Core2Duo E8400 system but I never got around to seeing how it measured up on media accel
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3134 [23:39:13] <jelly> these are not "media extensions", this is GPU decoding
3135 [23:40:18] <jelly> when it works, it uses less power than cpu decoding
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3144 [23:43:15] <rant> yeah well thats what I'm reerring to.. I never did like an ffmpeg benchmark to see how it perorms
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3170 [23:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1619
3171 [23:56:54] <jelly> maybe it performs different than "eats 2GB RAM with local files"
3172 [23:58:01] *** Quits: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
3173 [23:58:27] * jelly &
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