77[00:21:18] <mike__> but you must admit it is frustrating when you wanna show someone a video about linux ,you just downloaded and the moment you choose to go to "videos" folder vlc will play a porn you downloaded by mistake :
145[00:35:44] <annadane> depends on the package, you may be able to
146[00:35:45] <annadane> !ssb
147[00:35:45] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
148[00:35:55] <Guest97377> here is 1.35 am
149[00:36:11] <Guest97377> i am new here . i mean on linux
225[00:45:47] <dpkg> pastebin.com mangles input, takes forever to load, often makes us enter a CAPTCHA to see your paste and fills the screen with ads. Please use a different site, like replaced-url
251[00:51:54] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
252[00:52:16] <mike__> i actually said that i did ask three days ago and no answer . i am a kind of a bitch that will drill anyway and i asked nicely here .Iv got responds and there we go now you telling me politely to fk off ?
253[00:53:11] <annadane> fine, stay here then. *shrug*
254[00:53:12] <Kelsar> mike__: we don't know who parrot handles those thing, which patches they added and so on, but yes, basically you are right
255[00:54:00] <mike__> Kelsar, ok thank you wish you all the best :)
256[00:54:18] <aokfire> Here is the full df -h sorry replaced-url
257[00:54:30] <aokfire> it looks like various "virtual" folders are using space?
260[00:54:58] <annadane> anyway, try using mozo if it's in the parrot repository, it allows you to edit the MATE menu and you may be able to change the file path so what you're trying to open, opens
327[01:38:46] <petn-randall> maxcell_: `apt purge xfce4`, then run `apt autoremove` and pay close attention to the list of packages it wants to remove.
329[01:39:49] <agio> hi all, Im running minimal debian install, yet something is causing my screen to turn off about every 5 or 10 minutes. does anyone know how to fix this?
340[01:45:40] <tomman> I need some advice for an update
341[01:46:06] <petn-randall> !ask
342[01:46:06] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
343[01:46:09] *** Quits: alxy (uid115853@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
344[01:46:15] <tomman> I have this old Wheezy setup on a i586 box (my routerbox, which is a Pentium MMX thing) which I'll going to update to Jessie
345[01:46:28] <tomman> (sadly Stretch is not an option anymore for i586 gear)
346[01:46:53] <tomman> would it be wise to switch to systemd boot on it, or should I stick to sysvinit on such an old target?
347[01:47:18] <tomman> (I already imaged my boot HDD so rolling back would not be an issue)
348[01:47:25] *** Quits: argus (~down@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
356[01:49:21] <tomman> I'm about to pull the trigger on this, just need some advice on that point
357[01:49:25] *** Quits: todd_dsm (~todd_dsm@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
358[01:49:31] <petn-randall> tomman: The age or power of your system is irrelevant for deciding for or against systemd.
359[01:50:21] <petn-randall> tomman: systemd also runs fine on embedded systems (it even targets those systems), so it'll run fine on your Pentium.
360[01:50:42] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
361[01:50:43] <tomman> So I should give it a try there?
362[01:51:04] <petn-randall> tomman: However, IIRC systemd was a tech preview in jessie, so you'd have to switch by hand, whereas on an upgrade to stretch this would happen automagically.
363[01:51:21] <tomman> wasn't a tech preview in Wheezy?
364[01:51:42] <tomman> IIRC all of my Wheezy setups got switched automatically to systemd when I migrated them to Jessie
390[02:00:25] *** Quits: nighty- (~nighty@replaced-ip) (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
391[02:00:45] <maxcell_> petn-randall, when i apt purge xfce4 he wants to remove openoffice as well, there is any way i uninstall everything but openoffice?
392[02:00:54] <LtL> agio: its probably DPMS, type 'xset q' in a terminal. no root perms required
393[02:01:06] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
454[02:45:59] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
510[03:25:14] <A|an> why is there a transitional package (i guess!) for icedove AND a separate package for thunderbird? Can you place the contents of .icedove from a previous installation into .thunderbird?
524[03:38:19] <buu> Hey, I have a debian box booted without a monitor with an nvidia card as its only video output. Now that it's running I can ssh into as normal but if I plug a monitor into it, the monitor shows no signal, even when I tap on the keyboard
525[03:38:30] <buu> Is there a trick to get debian to launch the framebuffer?
526[03:38:34] <buu> (Since X isn't running)
527[03:39:32] *** doubledu1ch is now known as doubledutch
538[03:43:54] <wtfdeb> Is there something wrong with the repos? I'm unable to get packages like sudo..
539[03:45:04] <somiaj> wtfdeb: what is the output of apt policy on your system, and your /etc/apt/sources.list, and any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, put output at paste.debian.net
540[03:45:31] *** Quits: Zorroness (~Zorroness@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
550[03:50:04] <somiaj> you are missing the main stretch sources, you only have secuirty updates, and stretch-updates, you don't actually have 'stretch' repos
578[04:11:06] <rant> I'm a bit concerned about the way vlc is behaving on my system I been using it to watch movies and tv and its using a LOT of ram.. I've started it this time playing a short 20mb or so 3min low res file on loop and its been going about 20min now and its using 1.8G of ram which is over half my ram
579[04:11:52] <rant> only a small portion of my nearly totally used ram is showing as light green on my graph which is shared/cache which can be reclaimed
580[04:13:24] <rant> just wondering what thoughts are on this and if anyone can think of how I might be able to multi-task better.. I got 4g ram I should be able to play a video and a game I'd think
581[04:14:19] <rant> I could maybe see this kinda usage being normal i I were decoding a dvd right now or playing a long high res file thata was 1gb or more but to have it doing it with a small low res clip seems ridiculous
582[04:14:49] <somiaj> ditch vlc and use mpv? I'm not quiet sure why vlc is using so much ram, maybe it is just buffering things because it can and the memeory is available
583[04:15:52] <rant> yeah but I'd think buffers would show as light green my graph is more than 80% dark green which is not buffers
584[04:16:07] <Javabean> are you upscaling the video you are watching?
603[04:21:29] <rant> those are for getting streaming videos from the internet.. which is an odd dep for a media player.. seems like more a suggests/recommends kinda thing
604[04:21:35] <somiaj> yt-dl is recommended
605[04:21:40] *** Quits: todd_dsm (~todd_dsm@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
606[04:21:50] <rant> ah.. apt installs recommends by default?
607[04:21:54] <somiaj> yup
608[04:22:07] <rant> I started using apt but not fully aware of all its diferences
609[04:22:29] <rant> i still use apt-cache at times cause it doesnt format its output like apt search
610[04:24:14] <rant> somiaj: is there some trick to getting some UI on this mpv? this having to drag/drop files thing is annoying
617[04:26:44] <rant> I dont readily see playlist functions, or even simple load file with mpv.. which now that I recall is why I removed it the first time :P
621[04:27:41] <Javabean> i did the same with dragon
622[04:28:09] <somiaj> rant: I don't think so, mpv is command line which is why I like it. I did write a small python script to control it.
623[04:28:20] <rant> the new style UI of many gnome apps like the Videos, Boxes, etc where its sparse chrome is fugly to me too
624[04:28:36] <somiaj> mpv file.playlist will paly the play list, or mpv *mp3 will create a playlist
625[04:28:46] <rant> yeah I know mplayer well I'd sooner use that than this
626[04:29:37] <rant> really I like vlc.. it has a media browser I can save all my various media locations and make playlists easily.. has very flexible ui
627[04:30:22] <farruinn> Have you checked to see if there is a bug filed for the memory behavior?
628[04:30:25] <Javabean> yes vlc is far better as a gui video player, but i unfortunately don't know why you are having this kind of issue
629[04:30:29] <somiaj> mpv is the mplayer fork, that I've gotten use to
630[04:30:44] <somiaj> mplayer was dead for a while, it came back, but I still think mpv has some nice features
631[04:30:50] <rant> gmplayer was never good but it had a better ui than this
639[04:34:22] <rant> pretty sure I didnt compile it or anything
640[04:34:34] <rant> I havent compiled mplayer in like a decade
641[04:35:27] <somiaj> there was an mplayer transtiional package that pointed at mplayer2
642[04:35:42] <somiaj> and mplayer was an alternative that could either run mplayer2 or mpv
643[04:35:47] <somiaj> I switched to mpv at tha ttime.
644[04:35:55] <somiaj> then mplayer came back in stretch
645[04:35:58] <somiaj> and mplayer2 died
646[04:36:10] <somiaj> oh mplayer2 transitioned to mpv
647[04:37:15] <rant> oh well I guess I'll have to see i I can lower usage o vlc and if not I either gotta find another suitable player or write a script around mplayer
654[04:41:44] <somiaj> though there hasn't been much change in mplayer, I think I went with mpv as it removed a good amount of the older stuff from player, and suit my needs, though as I said I use a python script to talk to its api
655[04:41:56] <somiaj> but still command line, I don't do much with gui stuff
683[05:07:37] <dvs> strive, chances you'll need the firmware iso to detect wifi
684[05:07:49] <strive> dvs: Ah, ok. Thanks.
685[05:08:21] <strive> I've got the dvd1 iso
686[05:08:31] <strive> Firmware not included on there, eh?
687[05:08:42] <dvs> probably not
688[05:08:51] <strive> Darn.
689[05:09:01] <strive> !firmware
690[05:09:01] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
691[05:09:13] <dvs> !tell strive about firmware iso
846[07:37:43] <altker128> Hey guys. I want to copy a Debian 9.4 install from one HDD to another. I use gparted for that but I know the UUID for the drive will be different. Besides updating grub & fstab, what else needs to be done?
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893[08:07:38] <annadane> we went through this earlier
894[08:07:42] <Guest59144> yes :)
895[08:08:20] <its-a-me> hello guys, after fresh install, for some reason sddm (KDE) doesn.t start immediately. Pc always boots in a TTY1, then after a while I'm finally greeted by the KDE login. "sudo systemctl get-default" gives graphical.target.
896[08:08:22] <annadane> Kelsar suggested doing something with mime types and i suggested using mozo to edit menu entries
897[08:08:25] <annadane> beyond that, we can't help you
898[08:08:44] <Guest59144> but they dont answer for ages ! :)
901[08:09:08] <annadane> at least say you're on parrot... *i* happen to know this because i was here
902[08:09:13] <annadane> to everyone else, you're "on debian"
903[08:09:14] *** Martyn is now known as Guest59875
904[08:09:41] <annadane> its-a-me, did you install KDE via the installer?
905[08:09:53] <Guest59144> ok sorry .
906[08:09:58] <its-a-me> yes
907[08:10:37] <annadane> i would say we *may* be able to help you if you're on parrot (even though as you've been told it's against policy to do so) when there's no other activity in the room. but now, someone has a debian question, so that takes priority
908[08:10:47] <kupp> its-a-me: i had the same problem with nvidia-driver recently
911[08:11:07] <dpkg> We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
912[08:11:10] *** Quits: QcR (uid292442@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
913[08:11:21] <Guest59144> annadane, i can wait :) thank you
914[08:11:33] <annadane> so you can wait here, but not in the parrot channel?
915[08:11:35] <annadane> ok
916[08:11:37] <annadane> whatever
917[08:12:33] <its-a-me> #kupp I only have igpu on a thinkpad
919[08:13:16] <Guest59144> dpkg, why are you so xenophobic ? parrot is debian . and is linux and i dont feel (knowing how helpful is a linux community) braking any "rools"
920[08:13:16] <dpkg> Guest59144: what are you talking about?
921[08:13:30] <annadane> dpkg is simply a bot, which i invoked via !they don't know
922[08:13:30] <dpkg> annadane: I wish you would RTFM.
923[08:13:47] <annadane> the "rools" are in place for a reason
928[08:15:17] <Guest59144> annadane, i am sure they are but ill say again that parrot is still a debian and i could understand complaining if i am looking for help on lets say arch or suse channel
929[08:15:27] <annadane> !based on debian
930[08:15:27] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
931[08:15:36] <annadane> and now i'll say nothing more about it, you've heard my point
933[08:15:43] <Guest59144> well ill really appreciate any help
934[08:16:04] <kupp> !dpkg
935[08:16:05] <dpkg> rumour has it, dpkg is the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
947[08:18:24] <Guest59144> annadane, "so you can wait here, but not in the parrot channel?" i never said i am not waiting there. you can go there and see if you "dont trust me "
956[08:21:57] <annadane> it's a "crime" according to the other people who have asked you not to ask here about it. sure, purge vlc and reinstall it, see if it helps, but i doubt it
985[08:31:39] <its-a-me> annadane: ty, was very helpul actually. I run without 'blame' and it says that graphical.target reached afet
986[08:31:48] <its-a-me> after almost 4seconds in userspace
987[08:32:41] <annadane> i know KDE can sometimes be slow on some hard drives but it shouldn't take that long to go from tty to sddm login screen
988[08:32:54] <annadane> graphics card issue? i rather doubt it
989[08:32:58] <its-a-me> and it's an ssd
990[08:33:04] <annadane> yeah, well, there you go
991[08:33:29] <annadane> its-a-me, it's also possible that that was a one-time thing and the next time you startup your computer the delay won't be as long
992[08:33:54] <annadane> initial post install configuration, or something
993[08:34:00] <annadane> but i really don't know what i'm talking about
994[08:35:35] <its-a-me> it does it always, I've rebooted many times
995[08:36:14] <its-a-me> and if I don't login in the tty it stays there
997[08:36:38] <annadane> perhaps also check out systemd-analyze critical-chain
998[08:37:14] <its-a-me> after I login, a couple of seconds pass and I'm greet by sddm's login screen - and have to type pw again
999[08:37:24] <mike__> annadane, yes you was right . obviously after "purge" it was ok but soon i installed it again same problem
1000[08:38:02] <annadane> well then try the mozo package
1001[08:38:17] <annadane> i don't know why vlc opens the same video
1002[08:38:23] <annadane> maybe something in /tmp being weird
1003[08:39:36] <mike__> it is not only why it opens same vide but worst -why it opens it self without "askin" just the moment i click on "videos" folder :P
1004[08:39:50] *** Guest59875 is now known as Martyn
1036[08:53:30] <annadane> vlc? not sure what you might look for. maybe /var/log/syslog but i really don't know what'd help you diagnose something like that
1037[08:53:34] <mike__> annadane, i never said you are :) actually you seams to be really cool person
1038[08:54:03] *** Quits: dc13ff (uid190567@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1039[08:54:08] <annadane> journalctl -f may be useful
1040[08:54:34] <annadane> from the man page of journalctl (in debian unstable, anyway): "Show only the most recent journal entries, and continuously print new entries as they are appended to the journal"
1041[08:54:54] <annadane> (which is also the case in debian stable, but that's irrelevant)
1042[08:56:12] <mike__> nope there is nothing about it :(
1044[08:56:43] <annadane> in other words, go to a terminal, type journalctl -f, try to open your videos folder, and when vlc opens instead you'll be able to see the output
1053[08:58:47] <mike__> that what journal shows me
1054[08:59:28] <mike__> but i think it is about firewall not vlc
1055[08:59:50] <annadane> mike__, this is from kali linux but it's the same idea as parrot, see the section "is kali linux right for you" and note that it advises against using it as a daily desktop replaced-url
1083[09:05:43] <annadane> i'll add that constantly switching distros to solve problems is rushing solutions which you're explicitly advised not to do in linux
1084[09:06:03] <annadane> linux is finding the cause of a problem and then investigating a solution carefully
1098[09:08:24] <annadane> but the point is to accumulate knowledge, not try random things until stuff works
1099[09:08:30] <mike__> no of course not but i just like the look of it and after switching from so many distros i am really tired :) i would love to just settle it and use it whatever distro it is as long it is linux
1100[09:09:27] <mike__> you are absolutely right but noobs like me probably would choose anything that works and then slowly learn .
1103[09:11:01] <annadane> debian is fine, the only sort of problems people might have is debian's stance towards non-free software, which might mean that things like wifi won't work without installing firmware, and things of that nature
1104[09:11:19] <annadane> which we can tell you how to do
1105[09:11:38] <annadane> and i have nothing to argue for here, the debian project isn't paying me to say this
1106[09:11:40] <mike__> linux is really addictive i would already give up after all problems but after i tried once i simply dont see me going back to windows
1107[09:11:57] <annadane> it's just simply more practical to use a general purpose distro like debian, mint, ubuntu etc rather than kali/parot
1122[09:16:01] <jim> annadane, another thing we often experience is when people want to (for example) run make install into a dir like /usr or /usr/local, because they don't think whatever they're making is available in debian... often, it is
1128[09:16:58] <jim> yep, I watched part of its growth
1129[09:17:05] <annadane> anyway, this all comes across as a sales pitch and it's not, i just think you're going to have far less headaches with something like debian and have in the long run fewer problems
1130[09:17:23] <annadane> as long as you *don't blindly try things*
1131[09:17:27] <mike__> i am now really confused . (trying to search for answer) if i do cd /home/mike/Videos then ls there is nothing !
1155[09:22:55] <jim> annadane, if you want, you can tell me the factoid name, it's less typing than all that ! stuff :)
1156[09:23:19] <annadane> pah. i'm on irc 14 hours a day, i'm a fast typer
1157[09:23:41] <mike__> so jim if i click on "Videos" immediately vlc opens with the same video every time by it self . on "Videos" folder i have popcorn time folder but i can reach it anyway since the vlc opens befor that action (if that make sense)
1158[09:23:47] <jim> wow, that's a lot!
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1182[09:28:24] <jim> annadane, we've all done it, it's not much of a big deal (one place where it might be is where you're helping someone who is as yet unfamiliar with irc)
1183[09:28:32] <mike__> the videos are in Popcorn but via panel the moment i click on videos istead of opening "Popcorn" and then choose a video vlc opens immediately it self with one same video over and over again
1184[09:29:01] <mike__> jim yes i am here few weeks
1185[09:29:06] <annadane> and so i suggested to mike__ to try the mozo package (if it exists in parrot) to edit menu entries, and another user earlier suggested to try editing mime types
1186[09:29:22] <mike__> solving problems and giving up again and again :)
1187[09:29:56] <jim> yeah I kinda know how that can be
1188[09:30:12] <mike__> oh annadane i didnt knew it was to me that mozo. sorry i thought you was helping the other guy
1202[09:32:37] <annadane> mike__, why not try asking reddit? go on reddit.com/r/linuxquestions, specify you're using parrot, they might be able to help you
1203[09:32:58] <mike__> sure
1204[09:32:59] <mike__> thx
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1245[09:50:30] <gerforce_> how can i mount a usb stick with rw permission when i try to. it prompts me: write protected, read-only
1246[09:50:37] <annadane> if you "delete" it by moving it to the trash bin it ought to be recoverable, if you want to keep it. if you delete it via rm, it's pretty much gone
1247[09:51:22] <annadane> gerforce_, using the mount command normally doesn't work?
1276[09:57:29] <gerforce_> annadane: still write-protected
1277[09:57:32] <Linpassion> Ok whising dependieces it's resolved
1278[09:58:38] <Linpassion> I must configure repository or It's set-up by default?
1279[09:58:50] <peterfarge> Hi, I rented a vServer in the Internet with Debain 9.4. "ip a" shows me his public IP address. After I added a ICMP rule in the Firewall Interface, I can ping him. I have installed openssh-server and added a rule for port 22 and restarted the server, but I cant reach him from outside. "service ssh status" says that the server is running on port 22. Is there something additional I have to do?
1280[09:58:55] <tdn> What is a good web forum software package that is included in Debian? Or should I just avoid the debian distributed packages for web applications and instaed go for upstream dists?
1281[09:59:10] <annadane> Linpassion, it depends what you want, if you want non-free software you'll need to add contrib and non-free to your sources list
1282[09:59:18] <annadane> otherwise, it ought to have been already set up by the installer
1283[09:59:45] <Linpassion> thanks annadane
1284[09:59:46] <annadane> web forum? hmm... no idea
1302[10:01:57] <annadane> well you can backport it yourself if you have access to the source
1303[10:02:11] <annadane> not sure why you wouldn't just want to enable the source though
1304[10:02:30] <annadane> source code i mean, in the first instance, sources.list in the second instance
1305[10:02:58] <annadane> but anyway, packages in debian stable do get the full support of the security team so wordpress should be fine, but i'm unsure about forum applications
1306[10:03:07] <agio> tdn: you can download and install the package manually - but without enabling the non-free section for updates or security lists - you won't get automatic updates
1318[10:06:30] <FinalX> annadane: wordpress is one of the very many pieces of software that's directly hooked into the web that's being attacked. difference is that it gets security fixes extremely fast after one has been found and is automatically fixed. you do have to keep into account that 3rd party modules you can install are _not_ part of wordpress and can be riddled with malware themselves, or of bad coding quality and thus
1319[10:06:32] <FinalX> vulnerable. on top of that, you can't always count on the creator of such a plugin or theme to even fix problems. it's best to stick with wordpress itself and major, trusted company plugins. but that's not just with wordpress. goes for any CMS/software.
1330[10:10:03] <peterfarge> Hi, I rented a vServer in the Internet with Debain 9.4. "ip a" shows me his public IP address. After I added a ICMP rule in the Firewall Interface, I can ping him. I have installed openssh-server and added a rule for port 22 and restarted the server, but I cant reach him from outside. "service ssh status" says that the server is running on port 22. Is there something additional I have to do?
1348[10:20:16] <altker128> Guys, I know this isn't a Debian specific question but any thoughts on cloning drives? I did a test install on a 500GB drive (used like 2-3GB of space) and I'm trying to clone it into a 64GB SSD ; most clonetools freak out since the disk SIZE is different but there's more than enough space to make this work
1350[10:20:40] <peterfarge> petn-randall I configure the web interface. There were some deactivated firewall rules.
1351[10:20:48] <tdn> agio, yeah, this is what I mean: I want a single specific package to be installed from non-free, but without "polluting" my available package space with other non-free? Is this somethinfg that can be done via pinning?
1356[10:22:15] <peterfarge> petn-randall If I open a ssh connection from outside, I get immediately the Permission Denied answer.
1357[10:22:24] <petn-randall> altker128: You could of course shrink the filesystem and then the partition, but that's quite error prone. Also many clone tools don't always copy the boot loader over, because this is not part of any partition.
1358[10:22:40] <petn-randall> peterfarge: What is the exact error you get from ssh?
1365[10:26:04] <petn-randall> altker128: Reinstalling is like 10 minutes of time? I also don't understand what it has to do with GPT or UUIDs.
1366[10:26:09] <altker128> petn-randall: I'm saying re-installing is a really sad excuse for not being able to properly clone partitions, something that's been possible for like 25-30 yrs
1367[10:26:22] <petn-randall> altker128: By all means, go ahead.
1368[10:26:25] <themill> cloning is still trivial; resizing is not
1369[10:26:59] <altker128> themill: The copying should be "smart enough" to effectively rsync the files from old to new since there's a mismatch in partition size (i.e. not do a dd / block-level copy)
1370[10:27:16] <petn-randall> altker128: That wouldn't be a clone then, would it?
1371[10:27:17] <themill> make up your mind whether you want to clone or rsync then
1372[10:28:31] <themill> The process is easy enough. It's up to you whether you want to do that or just make a fresh installation.
1373[10:28:48] <altker128> Well, the frustrating part is the GPT aspect has be to re-created on the new drive, and the EFI partition should be cloned. The data can be rsynched
1374[10:28:50] <altker128> rsync'd
1375[10:29:19] <themill> that's no different to any other way of partitioning a disk
1376[10:29:36] <petn-randall> altker128: You can't use the same GPT anyway, since the partitions are different sizes. However clone GPT is a one-liner.
1381[10:31:03] <peterfarge> petn-randall It was I firewall problem. If I start ssh client from another linux shell and try a connection, the command give no answer. -> No connection. In the web Interface, I forget a checkbox. I thought I had to add a linux user to some kind of ssh group in debian. Thanks for your time :)
1555[12:04:01] <hans_> petn-randall, at first i thought it was a problem with debian-testing, saying "debian 10's apt-get update; has recently started waiting for like, what feels like 5-10 minutes, trying to connect to the ipv6 address (...)", but then i realized it wasn't a debian-testing issue, it was a mirror issue, sorry
1594[12:16:27] <petn-randall> altker128: What are you talking about? lilo is still packaged in Debian and usable.
1595[12:16:47] <yokowka> heavenO, everysoul II
1596[12:17:43] <altker128> petn-randall: I haven't tried to use LILO with the current Debian net-installer . I should probably give it a shot. EFI and UUID didn't really provide me any real benefits
1598[12:17:59] <rant> how can I make my system not wait on interfaces? could someone with stretech installed normally show me their /lib/systemd/system/networking.service when I installed from a normal installer it didnt do this, the live installer seems to have configured it dierently
1599[12:18:03] * petn-randall shrugs.
1600[12:18:24] <petn-randall> altker128: You're listing EFI and UUID together as if they have any relation to each other.
1601[12:18:47] <rant> this is adding a minute or more to my boot time.. its really annoying
1602[12:18:50] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1604[12:19:51] <petn-randall> rant: networking.service will wait on any configured devices in /etc/network/interfaces. If you take them out and use network-manager, nothing will wait on them.
1605[12:20:12] <petn-randall> rant: Or just make sure it doesn't use DHCP, or whatever is causing the long waits.
1606[12:20:26] <rant> its not waiting on that.. nothing in there but lo and it ignores lo
1622[12:25:39] *** Quits: kryptoz (~kryptoz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1623[12:25:53] <rant> it had installed probably 2GB or more of language stuff.. special dictionary frontends, input utils, manpages, translations for apps, you name it
1625[12:26:06] *** Quits: kryptoz (~kryptoz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1626[12:26:08] <rant> I spent more time undoing crap than installing
1627[12:26:18] <yokowka> rant, can You make unmistake? such system mesage: /dev/sda2: clean, 204260/30295728 files [10.805148] Error: [\_S8_.PCIO.GFXO.DDO2.BCL] Namespace lookup AE_NOT_FOUND (20160831/psargs-359) How to unmistake it??
1652[12:33:45] *** Quits: xav92 (~xavier@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1653[12:33:48] <yokowka> rant - already do, where is the log to find for paste?
1654[12:34:24] <rant> yokowka: it saved in the current working directory which would have been most likely the users homedir /home/user or /root depending on who ran it
1655[12:35:20] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1692[12:48:21] <rant> I wonder if those things just understand any language or if they have to be reconfigured
1693[12:48:37] <babilen> → #debian-offtopic
1694[12:48:40] <yokowka> rant - Alexei = Lyohae, we says in Rus': everyone got such friend Lyohae, which is dumb malyohae(litlle bit) so you joke has three sentensses.
1706[12:52:00] <rant> yokowka: those messages are not a problem.. everyone has something like that.. the point of the systemd-analyze commands was to see if something actually was slowing your boot which it doesnt appear that is so
1713[12:58:37] <babilen> yokowka: That depends on your hardware, it isn't really a Debian problem. I use fwupd, and typically run "fwupdmgr refresh ; fwupdmgr update", but I have no idea if that would work on your hardware.
1714[12:59:02] <babilen> You might want to contact your hardware vendor for information on how to upgrade your firmware/bios/...
1716[12:59:44] <babilen> fwupdmgr is worth a look though
1717[13:00:01] <yokowka> babilen, dell 3537 inspiron i've got. bios up to date is requied, how I think.
1718[13:00:27] <babilen> You could also start fiddling with acpi options, but it looks as if the ACPI implementation of your hardware is a bit wonky, so I'd start with upgrading that to the latest version first
1720[13:00:49] <babilen> Once you've done that you could also try a newer kernel from backports (see "/msg dpkg bdo kernel" for succint information on that)
1729[13:02:23] <babilen> Just like you install any other package on Debian
1730[13:02:39] <petn-randall> babilen: Note that we've been trying to explain to yokowka that it's a purely cosmetic message. There are no side effects on their machine beside that log output.
1821[13:42:52] <strive> somiaj: "strive: note, you could isntall from the dvd1 image you have, and just copy over the firmware after the install is complete" <- Great idea! Thanks!
1870[13:59:05] <rant> Thedarkb-M90: normally you could use journalctl but persistent logging is disabled by default and so there are no journals saved across reboots
1871[13:59:08] <ezname> Hello! is there a (simple) software that will pipe sound output to (mic/)sound input
1886[14:01:41] <Thedarkb-M90> I wonder can you cat things to them.
1887[14:01:59] <rant> journalctl is much more flexible it can search more easily and display only what you want to see.. its logs are binary and indexed
1905[14:08:16] <rant> ezname: linking your output to your input would only result in echoing back what the other person said
1906[14:08:23] <ezname> so i need to pipe the audio i am hearing on the machine since i need to show a person some music i made without him stealing it. i need to pipe output sound to input sound for discord to read it as a mic
1907[14:08:47] <ezname> there is this thing called "Stereo mix" for windows
1908[14:08:51] <ezname> look it up :)
1909[14:08:59] <rant> there is this thing called alsamixer on linux
1920[14:11:39] <gerforce> hi, i have recently got an old server(manufactured about 8 years ago). I try to install debian on it, but the installer couldn't recognize the hard driver which is a raid with three sata disk. The Controller is "LSI MegaRAID SAS 8208ELP" and "LSI MegaRAID SAS 8204ELP" according to the message from the BIOS. So what should i do to make debian installer see the raid.
1926[14:14:16] <gerforce> i think i should load the raid controller driver before installing. But it seems no official driver for linux. Is there an alternative driver?
1947[14:19:50] <rant> the wiki page for megaraid_sas is outdated but doesnt list an 8204ELP
1948[14:20:35] <rant> and those sorts of names are useless for determining support, only the vend/prod id codes matter, display names could be the same on diferent actual hw
1949[14:21:44] <gerforce> petn-randall: i got the server today. And it had windows 2003 installed. In BIOS i can use Ctl+k to configure the Controller, i can see three disk online and be a virtual disk(raid 5). I have no experience about raid before. I think it's been configured, am i right?
1950[14:22:16] <rant> gerforce: use lspci -nn or in windows you can usually get vend/prod ids in the device manager under properties
1951[14:22:54] <rant> it'll be 8 hex digits 1234:abcd on linux, probably 0x1234,0xabcd on windows
1969[14:26:22] <rant> I use debian, and so I use alsa, jack, or pulse
1970[14:26:37] <rant> which I recommended to you twice now
1971[14:27:26] <rant> jack has some rather pointy clicky kinds of utils to plug one thing into another, alsa has a mixer where you can select a capture device, and pulse has source/sinks
1972[14:27:57] <rant> alsa is built in, and pulse is usually standard on desktops, jackd is not
1974[14:28:21] <rant> open your package manager (i.e. synaptic, search, read)
1975[14:28:22] <jelly> ezname: so you want a virtual sound input that your app would use. Probably best ask in a pulseaudio or alsa channel what's the easiest way to accomplish that
1982[14:29:45] <rant> M6HZ: if you have a support question about dash on debian stable this may be a place you could get help if you quit beating around the issue and state it
1983[14:29:59] *** Quits: SebaBe (~SebaBe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1984[14:30:10] <ezname> jelly thank you i will do that
1987[14:32:14] <gerforce> rant: the alias line of the paste seems not match the pattern of 8 hex digits.
1988[14:33:03] <rant> gerforce: yeah I dont know why modinfo shows it like that but you only need 8 digits out of that pci:v00001028d00000015sv*sd*bc*sc*i* is 028d:0015
1989[14:33:25] <M6HZ> In the man pages of dash a builtin command: "fc" is documented, but it apparently doesn't work, is it a bug ?
1990[14:33:35] <rant> if someone knows about those pci strings, I'd be interested in knowing about it :P
1997[14:37:17] <rant> yes the maintainer didnt feel inclusion of fc was a priority
1998[14:37:33] <rant> dash is typically used in minimalistic scenarios on Debian
1999[14:37:38] <gerforce> rant: also if the vend/prod isn't supported by linux, If it's possible to disable the raid controller and treat one of the three hard driver as normal hard driver.
2000[14:37:41] <themill> no-one is interested in doing the work to make dash usable as an interactive shell
2007[14:40:12] *** Quits: bvs (~beavis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2008[14:40:38] <rant> gerforce: hwraid is a lesser used and complex thing.. so figuring out first if the kernel has a module that will claim the hw is the first step then we can go from there and see if that is in the initrd of the installer or such
2016[14:43:32] <rant> gerforce: more than likely you will not be able to use the standard installer even if this is supported as its a proprietary hw with proprietary tools
2027[14:46:31] <rant> gerforce: were it my problem, I'd either install to something else and setup the raid for storage after install or try installing from an already working installation after getting the raid up and running on there using a chroot install kinda method
2028[14:46:35] *** Quits: SebaBe (~SebaBe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2029[14:46:57] <rant> gerforce: or I'd sell it to someone and make it their problem and go get something else :P
2040[14:49:07] <rant> the tools are all 3rd party not in debian.. but if the kernel module supports it, then you have hw support at least, just no utils to control it.. which if its already setup via the bios on the card then thats not real important
2052[14:57:03] <rant> gerforce: I dont really do raid but when I've done it, it was an integrated.. these days if I could afford a raid I'd get something external and use it just for storage probably.. that way its less headache cause I'm just accessing it over LAN, USB or something like that and the device is doing all the magic
2055[14:58:35] <rant> gerforce: bottom line is getting any linux on this device is not only a very advanced use case scenario, but will require propriatary software that may be hard to find, and will not be able to use a standard install method
2056[14:59:00] <FinalX> after nuking an external repo (dotdeb), is there an easy way of reinstalling a list of packages and forcing a specific apt source to make them come from? (like jessie default in this case, instead of dotdeb .. dotdeb has a slightly higher minor version)
2057[14:59:03] <rant> gerforce: as for scope of this channel the bottom line is, its not supported
2065[15:00:50] <rant> FinalX: however you may have gotten to a point where deps were installed that upgraded core components that would require removal of nearly all your system to do so
2066[15:00:51] <gerforce> rant: Maybe i just need a new hardware with all kinds of linux support.
2067[15:01:11] <rant> gerforce: yes that is preferable, though we can't always get what we want
2068[15:01:38] <gerforce> rant: money is evil.
2069[15:02:03] <rant> gerforce: can you just hook the drives up to a supported controller and do a software raid at least?
2070[15:02:24] <FinalX> rant: nah, it's not that bad. went from wheezy+dotdeb php 5.6 => jessie, wanting to go back to jessie's php 5.6. and you can forcibly reinstall a specific version with apt, but.. this might be safer
2075[15:04:15] <rant> FinalX: sounds to me like you got some serious issues.. heh. we'd be happy to help you with whatever your devel/prod needs for php are if you go ahead and install a clean Stretch system
2076[15:04:22] <gerforce> rant: but how can i power the drive? there is no additional power connecter in the server, even i can connect the drive to the motherboard
2083[15:06:24] <gerforce> rant: After i have done some searching, i think about the method you mentioned. So i opened the server, and nope. No power source.
2084[15:07:23] <gerforce> rant: maybe i can use a external power. But seems a ugly solution.
2085[15:07:33] <gerforce> rant: anyway i'll try
2086[15:07:37] <rant> well we still support jessie too.. but we'd suggest other methods than dotdeb which isnt supported here
2087[15:07:46] <rant> !dotdeb alternatives
2088[15:07:46] <dpkg> Software from <dotdeb> historically had a number of packaging or functional issues. If you require newer versions than what <stable> offers, a lot of the packages now have updates in backports.debian.org, ask me about <bdo> or for php possibly <deb.sury.org>; to remove Dotdeb packages: "aptitude purge '~Vdotdeb'".
2089[15:08:51] <rant> gerforce: the drives are powered by the raid card?
2091[15:09:59] <FinalX> rant: ergo, you didn't read and just want to tell people to upgrade? :) I'm moving away from dotdeb to stock jessie... :) that does get LTS updates, still, at least until the company that's been promising a new version of their custom application actually keeps word :)
2092[15:10:14] <gerforce> rant: yes. you just insert the hard drive to the card, and it's done.
2096[15:10:55] <rant> gerforce: hmm the megaraid sas cards I know of are just normal pci(e) type cards with sas connectors like any other disk controller card ever made
2121[15:17:34] <areckx> ok this is embarassing; after backup of my server and reinstalling after some install ctrl-c mishap, I did new install------but I did it in recovery mode without creating a user or a root password....
2122[15:17:56] <areckx> tried root with no pass
2123[15:18:29] <petn-randall> areckx: How did you reinstall in recovery mode?
2124[15:18:45] <rant> gerforce: when my father has gone to china for business he said he was able to access the internet without issues and view things the chinese could not which still confuses me
2125[15:18:48] <areckx> via the usb net install recovery mode
2157[15:25:48] <rant> gerforce: *shrugs* what stops anyone from doing that? is it illegal or something?
2158[15:25:57] <petn-randall> areckx: "expert install" is the same as regular install, but just adds more options. And rescue mode only allows you to chroot into an existing installation. So I still don't know what you actually did.
2161[15:28:01] <areckx> why are you insisting it doesn't? I literally just did it
2162[15:28:28] <jken> Hello, I am setting up a new debian stretch system and am having trouble getting HDMI audio working. HDMI is the only possible audio output on this system but `cat /proc/asound/cards` tells me "No Soundcards". I am not sure where to start, can anyone point me in the right direction?
2163[15:28:31] <petn-randall> areckx: Because I just tried the network installer in a VM and it does just what I said.
2164[15:28:37] <areckx> I was in graphical recovery mode which did the initial hardware detect, setting time, etc, setting hostname
2165[15:28:42] <petn-randall> areckx: Which installation image did you download?
2166[15:28:49] <areckx> note, not recovery mode, GRAPHICAL recovery mode
2167[15:29:10] <areckx> I went into a shell and mounted my volumes to backup to an external hdd
2168[15:29:18] <areckx> after I did that I went to select installation step
2169[15:29:35] <areckx> and formatted partition, installed lxde and base system, then when it was done, I rebooted
2170[15:29:55] <areckx> then when I got to the dm I realized I have no user or password
2171[15:30:27] <areckx> I have no idea how
2172[15:30:42] <areckx> I input a hostname and it did the detect time, etc,
2173[15:30:48] <petn-randall> areckx: Then you may, or may not, have a complete installation. I'd just do it again cleanly. If you want to reset the password, it's:
2174[15:30:52] <petn-randall> !frp
2175[15:30:53] <dpkg> For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
2176[15:31:09] <areckx> why wouldn't it be complete?
2177[15:31:20] <babilen> Because you - obviously - skipped some steps
2178[15:31:28] <areckx> I only skipped the user create
2179[15:31:34] <petn-randall> areckx: Because if you skipped the user creation step, you might have skipped others, too.
2180[15:31:38] <areckx> and I don't see why I couldn't do that post install
2216[15:41:10] <babilen> So, you did not perform a complete install. The best way to perform an installation is to use the "install" or "expert" option of the installer
2242[15:48:11] <babilen> (the installer can always perform all the steps you select)
2243[15:48:27] <areckx> (I mixed some packages from testing and synaptic wanted me to remove a bunch of necessary files when I marked eclipse for reinstallation, I thought it was doing an autoremove so I did it but then did ctrl-C when I noticed it was uninstalling the kernel)
2244[15:48:39] <babilen> ...
2245[15:48:42] <areckx> babilen: right but it let me do it anyway
2246[15:48:50] <babilen> Yes, why wouldn't it?
2247[15:48:57] <babilen> *you* are in control
2248[15:49:20] <areckx> right but I mean I forget where in the process it made a password and user
2249[15:49:25] <areckx> and it never came up
2250[15:50:08] <areckx> I just find it strange that the installer would do everything else but not include that
2260[15:54:20] <areckx> I followed the guide to getting pepperflash, but when he goes into the game it says "flash plugin is outdated" in the top right, even though the version matches adobe's
2261[15:54:32] <areckx> I did the whole thing where I downloaded it and copied the .so file
2262[15:54:38] <petn-randall> areckx: You read what babilen said, right? The part about rescue mode not being an installer?
2267[15:55:22] <areckx> petn-randall: yes but I'm just saying if it's a rescue mode, then why does it set the time and ask for hostname but not create a user or pass? seems like it should skip that entirely and go straight to recovery shell
2271[15:56:36] <petn-randall> areckx: because time and hostname are relevant for a rescue system, creating users is not.
2272[15:57:06] <areckx> anyway I'm not sure if it's just kixeye and their game or not but when he runs it chromium says the flash plugin is outdated and then his system slows to a crawl after some time
2273[15:57:18] <areckx> you're missing my point
2274[15:57:18] <bites> areckx: the easiest way to get flash is installing google chrome.
2278[15:57:36] <areckx> my point is that if it's not intended to install, why does it have the opption to install the base system?
2279[15:57:47] <areckx> bites: I did that on his box too and same problem
2280[15:58:05] <petn-randall> areckx: The ways of supported installation are clearly documented in the release notes, if you want to do it differently, by all means do, but it's completely unsupported.
2281[15:58:18] <areckx> petn-randall: I don't want to do it differently though
2282[15:58:23] <areckx> you're missing my point
2283[15:58:24] <bites> so the game desperately want adobe flash? that sucks.
2331[16:19:06] <JohnA> OFF TOPIC: Recently a child died after accidentally being left in its parents car during very hot weather. I believe similar incidents have occurred in very cold weather. I am thinking of drawing up a "standard" to be suggested to government so that in the event that a child is left in a car if the parents leave an alarm is sounded. Serveral things: 1 this is obviously NOT the right place to discuss this idea. Is IRC a suitable place and if so how
2332[16:19:06] <JohnA> does one set up a "chat room". 2, would github be a "good"lace to creat and such a document ...
2343[16:25:59] <speechless> bites: I've progressed, found the iptables on the machine does the following: REDIRECT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:80 redir ports 8080
2350[16:27:19] <speechless> yea, containers were on different hosts, the one that kept failing is 2 years old, so there is a lot of strange configuration...
2351[16:27:38] <bites> but it only blocked some of the http requests apt made...
2352[16:27:53] <speechless> it blocked the http requests __everything__ made
2439[17:12:31] <speechless> bites: i've completely solved the issue, everything builds as expected, thanks for the hint. i ended up deleting the redirect rules because it really wasn't needed
2578[18:15:56] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2604[18:21:56] <dgp> Is there a way to disable the interface renaming crap without rebooting? I did the fix for my kernel command line but I can't reboot right now :/
2624[18:26:12] <rant> oo_miguel: look, keep in mind I know almost nothing about docker and php, but I'm pretty sure this configuration is telling apt not to install these things. I'm not terribly familiar with a priority of -1 either
2628[18:26:59] <rant> oo_miguel: yes after looking at docs -1 means to never install the package
2629[18:27:30] <rant> oo_miguel: apparently this docker thing which as I understand is for portable software, is distributing its own php packages and doesnt want debian installing any
2636[18:30:44] <petn-randall> dgp: You can use `ifrename` to rename you interfaces in the mean time.
2637[18:30:46] <rant> oo_miguel: yeah well beyond what we just covered, doing so means they have to support it, else you gotta figure it out yourself.. so consider than and which support community you prefer to rely on :P
2638[18:30:48] <petn-randall> somiaj: err, yes.
2639[18:30:50] <somiaj> dgp: if you use tye systemd.link definitions, you can just unload and reload the moudle and it will rename the interface by your systemd.link setting.
2642[18:31:15] <somiaj> ahh didn't know about ifrename, though with systemd.link, you don't need any command line parameter (though you will have to rebuild your initramfs)
2643[18:31:42] <dgp> I'm writing something that is adding interfaces and the renaming stuff is causing the interface to be renamed right after I get a packet from netlink saying it was added
2644[18:31:57] <oo_miguel> rant: haha yeah. I am afraid I have to rely on both
2648[18:33:38] <rant> oo_miguel: I'd think if one were to make the effort to make things like docker/flatpack/etc.. they'd take care to isolate it so local packages from the OS didnt interfere
2649[18:33:59] <rant> and using pinning to disable them isn't a good way to go about it
2650[18:36:15] <rant> oo_miguel: to quote our wiki "Debian does not encourage pinning without thorough consideration. ... Seriously, don't do this. Doing this will break Debian and leave you with a system that doesn't work and can't be fixed."
2660[18:42:01] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2661[18:42:24] <rant> oo_miguel: my problem with that logic aside from the fact we dont encourage its use.. is that you are relying on a maintainers decisions who neither has the knowledge or responsibilty for your system nor it would seem the knowledge of debian in general
2662[18:42:38] <rant> its a crude hack by someone with no dog in the race
2674[18:45:50] <oo_miguel> debian.org states: Debian images provided in docker.io's official repositories (their "official images") are listed on their official debian images repository. These images are generated by the stackbrew application
2675[18:46:13] *** Quits: saurabh__londhe (~Saurabh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2679[18:47:31] <rant> yes, because they're duplicating essentially our whole system.. a whole seperate package manager, repository, utility scripts, maintainers, etc.. and this use case demonstrates they do so in a way that undermines our practices
2680[18:47:32] *** Quits: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2682[18:48:19] <dgp> At least the kernel can now compact all the tens of copies of the same stuff you have in memory for no good reason
2683[18:48:20] <oo_miguel> rant: hmmm never looked on that from this perspective
2684[18:49:09] <rant> and having used and supported debian a long time I know sometimes things can be a challenge.. but I have to ask myself not only what I mentioned earlier about support, but also about security.. do I really trust their maintainer to keep things clean and secure and up to date over debian's?
2685[18:49:36] <rant> when clearly they dont have all that is debian in mind when they're doing this
2688[18:50:02] <rant> they're just concerned with making a neat little package that can be hacked into anything
2689[18:50:09] <dgp> rant: they don't care about stuff like that. If they cared they would package stuff properly
2690[18:50:12] <rant> consequences be damned
2691[18:50:33] <rant> dgp: thats a concisely put rewording of my point :P
2692[18:52:08] <rant> What made me a Debian user aside from what sent me looking for a better platform.. was reading Why Debian? and the Social Contract on Debian's website.. then I tried it, came here.. and I hold this community and those ideals above all else both in my use and support
2693[18:52:17] <rant> and to see people just crapping all over that...
2694[18:52:25] <oo_miguel> hmmm, my main motivation in using docker is having this "containers" running seemingly independently of each other (over one single kernel) and the fact I can easily back them up and move them around.
2696[18:52:40] <rant> I can't hardly trust them over DDs and DMs and the support community
2697[18:52:48] <Brigo> oo_miguel, what about lxc?
2698[18:52:49] <dgp> mm I just use it by habit now. I've used it for more than half of my life
2699[18:53:10] <dgp> oo_miguel: You can do that without having a complete copy of the whole OS
2700[18:53:17] <oo_miguel> Brigo: is lxc the technology underneath docker?
2701[18:53:38] <somiaj> lxc is another container method
2702[18:53:46] <rant> well thats why I got Crossover 17 last week for much the same reason. but the difference there is, the stuff I'm doing in crossover can't be done otherwise on debian
2703[18:54:03] <Brigo> oo_miguel, the kernel is the technology underneath docker and lxc :)
2704[18:54:05] <rant> but it sure can bottle stuff up, archive and distribute it nicely :P
2705[18:54:17] <somiaj> rant: wasn't the office you needed to support old? I am able to use office 2007 just fine with the wine in debian.
2708[18:54:35] <rant> somiaj: that was my father.. I'm using it for games
2709[18:55:03] <somiaj> ahh, I've basically stoped playing games that don't have a linux client, the selection is smaller, but there are a decent number you can get for linux
2710[18:55:12] <oo_miguel> Brigo: ah ok. thougt docker runs on TOP of something (beside the kernel of course)
2711[18:55:12] <rant> somiaj: I had him on that old Crossover 7 from the Lame Duck thing back in '08
2712[18:55:21] <dgp> somiaj: from steam?
2713[18:55:30] <somiaj> dgp: mostly, though not all
2724[18:56:32] <dgp> jak2000: apt-cache java and pick the jre or jdk you want
2725[18:56:44] *** Quits: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2726[18:56:47] <rant> dgp: read that again
2727[18:56:55] <somiaj> dgp: Often one just is missing the right libaries. I have had to work to get them working some times, but so far they have all worked.
2746[18:59:32] <judd> Package: openjdk-9-jre on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 9~b181-4~bpo9+1
2747[19:00:04] <somiaj> 0 is avaiablel in stretch-backports, but my understanding is that version is dead, 8 is still supported and so is the new version 10
2750[19:00:27] <dgp> oo_miguel: The sort of projects that use docker are the sort of projects that have NIH problems so it doesn't surprise me they would do that
2751[19:00:32] <rant> there seems to be a typo epidemic in here :P
2773[19:03:20] <jak2000> dgp yes actually i have this java version: 1.8.0_171 and fail to send email, a friend say me: need version 9 or 8u151
2774[19:03:37] <jak2000> then i need uninstall 1.8.0_171 and install this: 8u151
2775[19:03:37] <oo_miguel> allright, so after all this "constructive criticism" ;) I will definitely try LXC for my next project and decide how it compares to docker for my scenarios
2776[19:03:44] <oo_miguel> thank you very much
2777[19:04:18] <oo_miguel> ... unless there is maybe another container-technology I should also have a look at?
2778[19:04:18] <somiaj> jak2000: I don't see why downgrading to 8u151 would help there, the main difference between 151 and 171 is securty fixes.
2779[19:04:32] <jak2000> see:
2780[19:04:49] <dgp> and 9 breaks more things than it fixes
2781[19:05:17] <jak2000> <Maldivia> jak2000: 8u161 changed an internal class that java mail relies on, causing it to break i know this issusue
2782[19:05:38] *** Quits: saurabh__londhe (~Saurabh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2783[19:06:01] <jak2000> in my laptop i installed this version: 8u151 and my program worked... (downgrade)...
2797[19:08:38] <greycat> If a non-Debian channel is advising a specific version of Java, then install that version in /opt or /usr/local and make symlinks as needed by hand.
2798[19:09:05] <greycat> (or snapshot.d.o if it's an *older* version that they want, which is uncommon)
2823[19:17:29] <greycat> FYI wheezy is beyond end of life and no longer receives support.
2824[19:17:33] <somiaj> ahh okay, then listen to greycat. There is just a bug affecting testing/unstable users where they are loosing sound, but this does not affect wheezy.
2825[19:17:42] <diverdude> greycat: i know but i have to run wheezy
2826[19:17:50] <somiaj> (there is ELTS on wheezy, but desktop support has been dropped for a while)
2827[19:18:02] <greycat> OK. If you're using ALSA without Pulse, just run alsamixer and unmute and raise the volume on the master channel.
2840[19:21:22] <buu> I booted a debian box with a graphics card plugged in but no monitor. Now I want monitor output. I plug the monitor in. It tells me no signal. X isn't even installed.
2845[19:21:36] <diverdude> greycat: aha nice...sound plays through speakers now
2846[19:22:18] <diverdude> greycat: i have also a headset attached through USB (speakers is via minijack). Can i select audiooutput somewhere so that i can select headset for output?
2847[19:22:43] <somiaj> if using alsa, you'll have to look into .asoundrc configuration
2848[19:23:06] <diverdude> ok there is no UI where i can do it?
2849[19:23:10] <diverdude> in some system settings UI
2850[19:23:10] <somiaj> well that can change the default device, you can also tell your app to use a different device
2851[19:23:21] <somiaj> this is why most people use pulse
2923[20:14:01] *** Quits: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2924[20:14:04] <Ignacy> When I run 'M-x term' I can't switch between split windows, because terminal eats all input. WHAT DO?
2925[20:14:25] <Ignacy> umm sorry, wrong window
2926[20:14:34] <yeik> Is debian sid having issues with the udev and systemd, i saw bugs regarding udev, but now my system had things like libvirtd masked and can't bring up virt-manager, several other things seem off,
2941[20:17:45] <jak2000> i executed: on bin directory: ./java -version and tell me the version of java, i think need 1) move the jdk directory to /opt and add path right? how to
2942[20:18:03] <jak2000> friends, unpacked my file: jdk-8u151-linux-x64.tar.gz
2949[20:20:09] <somiaj> I think if using /usr/bin/java, best just use update-alternatives and add that java to the alternative system.
2950[20:20:24] <somiaj> though I would just have the app that needs that java call it, and try to leave the system java alone, so other apps can use the more secure java
2951[20:20:48] <greycat> I might be tempted to create /usr/local/bin/java and REMOVE /usr/bin/java completely
2952[20:20:59] <greycat> but then I'm not sure something wouldn't just recreate /usr/bin/java so ...
2953[20:21:02] <jak2000> somiaj i need java command are available in all linux box (need add the path) because Glassfish and or tomcat need excecute the command
2954[20:22:02] <somiaj> you could set up a PATH just for the enviorments that run glassfish or tomcat, but again I would have tried to fix the issue with the newer java as opposed to run services on a java with known security holes
2955[20:22:37] <somiaj> but there are lots of options, if you want to make it the default java, you can manually add it as an alterative using update-alternatives and then not have to add any other linkes
3083[21:29:18] <erabiltzaile__> Hi, I changed my external HD LUKS pass and I forgot the new (yes, not proud of it), I don't know why but Ubuntu forgot it too, is there a way to access the data? there is some important work, please.
3084[21:29:25] <erabiltzaile__> I mean, is my PC, my machine, my HD, my GNU LINUX with my user, I did all from here, no way to restore it? Please, and thanks.
3111[21:35:50] <erabiltzaile__> jim, I have the 75% in DVDs... Also some important work in Google DRIVE (that is not my decision, but a team)...
3112[21:36:40] <zokum> As for my problem, i think the files have been moved to: /usr/share/easy-rsa
3113[21:36:43] <jim> erabiltzaile__, oh good, maybe you can get some of it back
3114[21:36:49] <erabiltzaile__> jim, I would like a tool for HD clonning, I mean, same HD inside the laptop and the external one, is it posible?
3115[21:37:42] <jim> you mean two copies both encrypted?
3116[21:37:55] <erabiltzaile__> I mean same cloned HD
3117[21:38:30] <erabiltzaile__> and if I make some change in the external one (the one I move), then when I plug it to the laptop, that tool can modify the changes automatically, or just a click.
3118[21:38:36] <erabiltzaile__> Is there something like that?
3119[21:38:36] <erabiltzaile__> xD
3120[21:39:32] <zokum> erabiltzaile__: there's a shell command called "dd" try "man dd" replaced-url
3121[21:39:34] <jim> there are probably tools like that
3122[21:39:38] <erabiltzaile__> ...
3123[21:39:46] <erabiltzaile__> zokum, I know dd, thanks
3124[21:39:46] <erabiltzaile__> xD
3125[21:40:02] <erabiltzaile__> I would like something automatic, and with GUI
3126[21:40:02] <erabiltzaile__> ;D
3127[21:40:08] <zokum> like rsync?
3128[21:40:08] <erabiltzaile__> anyway thanks
3129[21:40:09] <greycat> He said he's going to keep making changes, so a clone with dd is a really BAD idea.
3130[21:40:23] <greycat> You'd be better off copying files at the file system level using rsync or similar.
3131[21:40:26] <zokum> well, it all depends on how identical you want it to be
3150[21:43:34] *** Quits: argusbr (~down@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3151[21:44:00] <erabiltzaile__> zokum, Im not a developer, here in my gnome shell you could see Autodesk 3D Maya, Blender, Lightworks, Fusion, Unity... xD
3165[21:46:58] <jim> annadane, as you probably know, the issues dd suffers from are for one thing, it will copy the -filesystem-, meaning the size of the device has to be exactly the same, also, dd will also copy free space; whereas a file copying method doesn't suffer from either of those
3183[21:53:46] <jim> annadane, actually, if the destination is larger and what you;'re copying is an extN partition, you could do the copy then run resize2fs on the copy
3196[21:58:03] <jim> and on top of all of that, if you wanted to change filesystem type, you could do so by formatting the destination to be the type you want, and have both mounted before using cp or rsync
3222[22:08:28] <greycat> The question is too vague.
3223[22:09:05] <greycat> If you've got a consumer-grade router or modem+router with ethernet ports, just run an ethernet cable from the computer to the router, install Debian, and let it configure the network automatically, and it should just work.
3224[22:09:17] *** diverdude is now known as Guest51768
3285[22:45:14] <greycat> That's what I meant by "not realistic". You're just using it as cp in disguise, not copying raw devices (disks or partitions) the way most people use dd.
3308[22:52:20] <jkcg> well, the debian ppc irc channel are so death that is not even funny
3309[22:52:42] <jkcg> my true question is
3310[22:53:00] <jhutchin1_wk> jkcg: Marginal projects like that are better supported in forums and mailing lists. There just isn't the user density to keep an irc channel alive.
3311[22:53:07] <jelly> "death" seems to happen to old architectures yes
3464[23:14:05] *** Quits: RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Goodbye and [depending on the time] good night.)
3465[23:14:10] <_31N108E> A doorstop designed by Apple in California.
3466[23:14:25] <jkcg> if I can get it to run debian 9 I will let you know
3467[23:14:35] <zokum> jkcg: yes, gentoo compiles everything, so if your architecture is supported, it might work fine for you
3468[23:14:59] <jkcg> maybe the unoficial port can work for it
3469[23:15:03] *** Quits: nylon (~nylon@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3470[23:15:08] <petn-randall> jkcg: A Mac Cube user? Finally I meet you!
3471[23:15:24] <jkcg> what tackles down the machine is the 400 mhz
3472[23:15:25] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3473[23:15:42] <jkcg> <petn-randall>
3474[23:16:26] <petn-randall> zokum: I don't quite understand how gentoo helps with this. Either the architecture is supported, or it's not. Same goes for Debian. I don't know how recompiling helps there.
3475[23:16:36] *** Quits: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3477[23:17:09] <M6HZ> Do you know how to increment a value with the dash shell ? I normally use ((var++)), but there it's apparently not working, which is supprising to me is that the function seems to be documented here: replaced-url
3480[23:17:52] <zokum> petn-randall: gentoo can more easily support odd architectures due to the code being compiled for your current arch, instead of being provided as precompiled packages
3481[23:17:56] *** Quits: tsuggs (~tsuggs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3484[23:18:08] <petn-randall> M6HZ: I thought everything with double brackets is a bash built-in, but I must admit I hardly write shells scripts anymore.
3487[23:19:21] <jakes> running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music
3489[23:19:59] <petn-randall> zokum: Well, I don't see a difference when the user or the distro maintainer compiles it. The distro maintainer still has to provide the bits to support the architecture, and also the boot bits, which are different for every arch.
3491[23:21:06] <karlpinc> How do I find the default values for unattended-upgrade. I've tried "apt-config dump" and it only shows me some values, not everything that's listed (say, "Mail") in the conf file, 50unattended-upgrades.
3492[23:21:39] <jkcg> petn-randall: do you use your mac cube currently?
3493[23:21:50] <zokum> i would think a lot of architectures are abandoned due to the work needed to provide packages prebuilt that works out of the box, moving more of the job over to the user makes it easier for the maintainer to support
3494[23:22:04] <petn-randall> jkcg: No, I just always wanted to meet one of the three remaining users.
3495[23:22:27] <zokum> besides, ppc seems to be a supported arch: replaced-url
3496[23:22:31] <petn-randall> zokum: What you just said makes zero sense.
3497[23:22:51] <zokum> petn-randall: what is it you don't understand?
3498[23:22:51] *** Quits: sigsts (~sigsts@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3501[23:23:37] <petn-randall> zokum: As a Gentoo distro maintainer you provide bits to make it compile on the user's machine. Now just imagine the user being the Debian buildd. The work is exactly the same.
3504[23:24:16] <jkcg> petn-randall: indeed, the machine is very unusual
3505[23:24:25] <petn-randall> zokum: You don't magically save maintenance work by letting the user running the build. That's just cheap CPU cycles. The hard work is to make the buildchain not to FTBFS.
3506[23:24:41] <zokum> petn-randall: gentoo packages are a bit different, they're mostly the source code + patches and some minor glue
3507[23:25:14] <jkcg> petn-randall and weird to obtain, the one you got its stil functional?
3508[23:25:22] <zokum> so, it's the same basic package for all archs, it's just the compiler, make flags etc that are different
3509[23:25:34] <petn-randall> ... and build scripts that still need to run on that architecture nonetheless.
3510[23:25:48] <zokum> yes, but those are shared
3511[23:26:00] <jkcg> zokum: IIRC you are correct, portage, which is the package manager of gentoo is a bit different
3512[23:26:18] <petn-randall> zokum: They still need to get fixed to build on architecture X. That doesn't just happen automagically.
3514[23:26:27] *** Quits: BOSNA (~Sokol@replaced-ip) ()
3515[23:26:50] <jkcg> you may be able to do what you sya but, the compiling time for, lets say, chrome takes like 2 days to compile
3516[23:27:16] <zokum> petn-randall: yes, but you can opt to do it yourself if you want to very easily, and the mirrors need only supply the source package, not precompiled binaries
3517[23:27:29] <petn-randall> zokum: Convincing gcc to build for arch X isn't the hard part, it's a) making sure the code actually builds on the arch b) making sure the build system runs on the arch c) getting some boot loader to work on the arch to boot the kernel + initramfs.
3526[23:29:21] <zokum> the point is, gentoo can provide you with an os optimized for pentium 2 if need be, but it takes ages to compile
3527[23:29:26] <petn-randall> zokum: Right! So a Gentoo maintainer actually does b) and c) by hand. And of course a), too. If it doesn't build (irrelevant if it's on the user or buildd machine), it doesn't run for the user.
3533[23:30:19] <zokum> petn-randall: the maintainers generally only test for the common architectures, it's up to the user to fix things to a much higher degree if things go wrong
3538[23:31:27] <petn-randall> zokum: Right. So then it's no different than Debian. In Debian you can also just pull the source packages, fix any problems and compile for your arch. You can even (semi-)automate that.
3539[23:31:53] <zokum> yes, you probably can, and gentoo is built around automatically always doing that for you
3540[23:32:08] <zokum> they've focused on the automation of that stuff
3542[23:32:25] <jakes> running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music
3543[23:32:25] <jakes> hi. running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music
3544[23:32:48] <petn-randall> !raspbian
3545[23:32:49] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
3546[23:32:58] <petn-randall> jakes: Try asking in their support channel. ^^^
3547[23:33:17] <jakes> petn-randall: cheers
3548[23:33:22] <petn-randall> jakes: yw
3549[23:33:39] <jakes> have asked there, but only tumbleweeds
3550[23:33:44] <petn-randall> jakes: There's also #raspberrypi.
3555[23:34:35] <petn-randall> jakes: The channel is a lot smaller, so you need to be patient. Also it's night for EU/US, so you might have more luck asking in 8h or so.
3556[23:35:00] <jakes> yea - I'm on the arse-end of the world NZT
3557[23:35:06] *** Quits: loptr (~loptr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3558[23:35:06] <petn-randall> jakes: Well, raspbian being the OS, it looks like the right channel for me.
3566[23:35:47] <jakes> IRC is very sleepy when I'm up, so need to kick up a fuss, work a lot harder to find anyone knowledgable awake in any relevant channels
3567[23:36:01] <zokum> it's 23:35 in europe, so it should be like 17:35 us east coast, so should be people awake
3582[23:38:48] <jakes> BCMM: I am (well, PulseAudio under Raspbian)
3583[23:39:03] <jakes> running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music
3584[23:39:23] <BCMM> jakes: i just joined so i'm guessing from petn-randall's message, but i take it you had no luck on #raspbian?
3591[23:40:18] <BCMM> jakes: i was just gonna point out that #raspberrypi has much more raspbian chat than #raspbian does, ever since the Foundation made Raspbian their favourite distro
3599[23:43:08] <BCMM> jakes: i'd like to hope communities centered around open-source are slightly more resistant to moving to proprietary communication platforms
3605[23:44:35] <petn-randall> Pff, discord. Slack is the shit for this month!
3606[23:45:09] <jakes> I think it was a lot to do with shiny interfaces - i.e. ability to communicate more expressive than just type, such as anigif & memes - & that many FLOSS community have some VERY TOXIC attitudes deeply entrenched
3619[23:49:07] <ryouma> does grub-install or update-grub run os-prober? is it only for the purpose of populating the grub menu? i.e. it won't change anything except a menu file right?
3620[23:49:17] <jkcg> hello debian users
3621[23:49:45] <jkcg> I would like to know, if some of you are in deb testing of ppc64
3622[23:49:52] <jkcg> or ppc
3623[23:50:25] <ryouma> isn't that unsupported as of post-jessie or something?
3624[23:50:32] <jkcg> well no
3625[23:50:36] <jkcg> you are right
3626[23:50:43] <jkcg> it is not officially supported
3651[23:56:54] <jkcg> power macs are divided in two periods, powermac g4 and earilier, and power mac g5, g4 are 32 bit, the standard powerpc target you see
3652[23:57:01] <BCMM> ryouma: all macs since '06 are little-endian
3653[23:57:01] *** Quits: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)