People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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16 [00:05:49] <Mysterytrain> well that didn't work either, still with the grub-rescue prompt. time to try some othether things
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24 [00:07:41] <somiaj> any errors from trying to install grub, is it still complaining about being able to access the efi?
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30 [00:10:31] <Mysterytrain> grub installed fine
31 [00:10:56] <somiaj> then what didn't work?
32 [00:11:25] <somiaj> if your efi firmware didn't get updated, often times the firmware has a tool you can browse the efi partition and point it at the debian grub.efi file
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70 [00:38:41] <kinstalinist> hey y'all, what's the canonical way to retrieve a sysfs property of a device in a shell script if i know where it is in /dev? wondering if there's any better ways than grepping/awking program outputs
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73 [00:39:03] <kinstalinist> canonical, best, simplest, whatever
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77 [00:41:16] <somiaj> if wanting sysfs info, you talking about info inside of /sys (not dev)?
78 [00:41:42] <somiaj> I don't know of another way except grep/cat, as they are text files meant for ease of use with common tools.
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80 [00:42:19] <somiaj> maybe sysconf is what youw ant, or sysctrl
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86 [00:46:40] <kinstalinist> somiaj: maybe if i describe what i'm actually trying to do it'll make more sense? i'm working on making my iPhone mount automatically when i plug it in, and while i do have a udev rule to create the symlink /dev/iPhone, ifuse uses the serial number to specify a specific device, not device file
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88 [00:47:51] <kinstalinist> somiaj: so given that i know /dev/iPhone is the iPhone, i wanna get /sys${DEVPATH}/serial
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96 [00:50:25] <somiaj> how are you trying to mount the iphone? What file system? like mtpfs?
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102 [00:53:31] <kinstalinist> somiaj: i'm using the program ifuse, which mounts it as a fuse fs
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114 [00:59:42] <kinstalinist> somiaj: i think i may just grep `udevadm info`, i can get what i need from there
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129 [01:06:36] <awal1> ,v luakit
130 [01:06:37] <judd> Package: luakit on amd64 -- wheezy: 2012.03.25-1; sid: 2012.09.13-r1-8+b1; stretch: 2012.09.13-r1-8+b1
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134 [01:08:24] <michael2> hi. Im have a laptop on a debian minimal install with no X and I need to know how much battery I have left. does anyone know how to check laptop battery remaining?
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140 [01:11:42] <jpw> `acpid`
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144 [01:12:51] <michael2> im in a minimal install - I dont have acpid
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152 [01:15:24] <jpw> then the info you're after will be somewhere inside /sys i don't know where thouh.
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156 [01:17:31] <oerheks> cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state
157 [01:17:44] <jpw> /sys/bus/acpi/drivers/battery/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT1 for me
158 [01:18:00] <jpw> but then i am using centos at the moment
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166 [01:22:01] <Ouroboros> is /proc/mounts supposed to list all non-default options?
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172 [01:24:45] <gunix> Ouroboros: it lists the running config
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181 [01:28:35] <Ouroboros> right, but e.g. dmesg says 'EXT4-fs (sda1): mounted filesystem with journalled data mode.', but /proc/mounts does not list data=journal, how to explain that?
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187 [01:31:17] <Tom-_> different senses of the word data i think
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189 [01:32:18] <necrose99> anyone have any lighthttpd experiance ?
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194 [01:36:15] <necrose99> namily exposing packages dir in lighthttpd as base conf is naked
195 [01:36:41] <awal1> apart chromium & firfox & epiphany, is there any browser with support for html video?
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198 [01:36:52] <awal1> something like luakit
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200 [01:37:53] <JinCMG> Tried to install Debian Stretch, Dual Boot Multi Drive with Windows 10 already installed and get no errors but it never boots into Grub
201 [01:38:09] <Ouroboros> Tom-_: no, they are the same
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204 [01:38:21] <JinCMG> Anyone have any advice?
205 [01:39:19] <Tom-_> awal1, pale moon?
206 [01:39:31] <awal1> Tom', pale moon?
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210 [01:43:28] <Ouroboros> also, the root fs should typically be mounted once by initramfs and remounted once based on fstab later, correct?
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216 [01:45:46] <Ouroboros> and this is typically with ro the first time (from kernel command line) and with rw the second time... so then why do the EXT4-fs messages not mention either ro or rw during remount?
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220 [01:49:26] <Ouroboros> perhaps someone can show what their messages for the root fs look like
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280 [02:19:33] <necrose99> JinCMG Sabayon Linux (Gentoo) before windows 10 fall creators , eady-bcd works
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282 [02:20:21] <necrose99> however visualbcd runing cureent , easy-ufi can gen menus for windows or bios.
283 [02:20:47] <somiaj> JinCMG: could it be an efi boot, in this case your firmware is booting the windows efi file and not the debian one. Maybe you need to configure your firmware and point it at the grub efi file
284 [02:20:48] <necrose99> jinCMG 2 GPT hDD's or SSd's
285 [02:21:11] <necrose99> i'd Strongly recomend 2 drives
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289 [02:22:00] <somiaj> awal1: I would assume most webkit browsers (which epiphany is) support video, since they are all using webkit as the backend. Though firefox and chromium are the only ones that get security support.
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294 [02:27:01] <Sri_Designer> damn. The The w/ Agnes Obel openning sold out me hood Riviera (3k ppl) in an hour. who knew.
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296 [02:28:31] <Sri_Designer> wrong chan, sorry.
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306 [02:42:33] <kinstalinist> does anyone know what kind of call mount(8) makes to a /sbin/mount.$type helper? my initial idea on this was to read the source code but i'm in waaaaaaaay over my head trying to do that, i'm realizing :x
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308 [02:44:21] <Ouroboros> kinstalinist: what is the objective?
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311 [02:46:33] <kinstalinist> Ouroboros: i'm wanting to write a helper that figures out the `ifuse` invocation to do so i can just use `mount` for my iPhone (the issue is that to specify a specific target `ifuse` uses the UUID, not a device)
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314 [02:48:27] <kinstalinist> Ouroboros: i have a udev rule set up so that it symlinks to /dev/iPhone, but since `ifuse` won't take a device as an argument, it's a bit more complicated than just symlinking /sbin/mount.iOS to /usr/bin/ifuse
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332 [03:04:58] <kinstalinist> okay, should've thought of this before: found out the answer by making the helper be a script that just spits out the arguments it's called with :P
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340 [03:10:25] <michael2> what does the wpa_supplicant man page mean by "BSS" ?
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344 [03:14:24] <Ouroboros> kinstalinist: no problem :P
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346 [03:14:57] <awal1> somiaj, you right, only chromium & ffox gets security support; I forgot about that. nvm, so
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353 [03:16:07] <kinstalinist> michael2: i actually didn't know this before i looked it up just now, it stands for Basic Service Set
354 [03:16:10] <kinstalinist> michael2: replaced-url
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358 [03:16:55] <kinstalinist> michael2: so basically tl;dr: a network
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362 [03:17:20] <michael2> kinstalinist: thanks, i should have looked it up too. I just assumed the answer wouild have been buried under an avalanche of search results!
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366 [03:18:38] <kinstalinist> michael2: helps to make your query a bit more specific sometimes, like the one i found the wikipedia article with was 'wireless bss'
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369 [03:19:22] <michael2> from that wikipedia article: ... a service set is a group of wireless network devices that are operating with the same networking parameters.
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377 [03:21:07] <kinstalinist> michael2: yeah, basically the router and all the devices connected to it
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390 [03:23:49] <kinstalinist> michael2: i did already know that a BSS*ID* is the unique identification number for a wireless access point
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392 [03:25:49] <michael2> yeah, it seems the BSS is built around the BSSID
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467 [04:09:57] <Ouroboros> hm, does finding root fs that is on /dev/mapper by uuid work?
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503 [04:29:47] <Ouroboros> hm, what controls whether a systemd menuentry is generated by update-grub?
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510 [04:36:58] <somiaj> what do you mean by systemd menuentry?
511 [04:37:10] <somiaj> I don't see why grub would generate a systemd menuentry, or what you mean
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522 [04:44:41] <Ouroboros> well, after install there were two menuentries: 'Debian GNU/Linux ...' and 'Debian GNU/Linux ... (recovery mode)' with single, after i ran update-grub another menuentry was added: 'Debian GNU/Linux ... (systemd)' with init=/lib/systemd/systemd
523 [04:45:22] <Ouroboros> there are no references to systemd in /etc/grub.d, so is this based on the presence of /lib/systemd?
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527 [04:46:54] <Ouroboros> note that i am using sysvinit by default
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530 [04:51:27] <somiaj> grub should be generating it based on the scripts in /etc/grub.d and /lib/systemd. the /boot/grub/grub.cfg is commented to let you know what script created which entry, that may help narrow down what script is creating the entry
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536 [04:55:12] <somiaj> Ouroboros: arg, not /lib/systemd, I meant /etc/default/grub --
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552 [05:02:42] <Ouroboros> ah, yes, /etc/grub.d/10_linux generates one additional menuentry for each init that is present and not default
553 [05:02:56] <Ouroboros> thanks, 'mystery' solved
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579 [05:28:49] <KindaNoob> hi, I can't run vsftpd
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581 [05:29:22] <KindaNoob> it prints "[ok] startting bla-bla" but I doesn't apear in netstat output
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591 [05:36:47] <Guest7492> hello everyone
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594 [05:38:46] <Guest7492> 有人吗？我是怎么进来的
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601 [05:40:37] <Ouroboros> are the new predictable network interface names strictly speaking part of systemd or udev?
602 [05:41:09] <Guest7492> 这个要怎么玩
603 [05:41:16] <kill0rmachine> 请不要告诉任何人你在这里
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605 [05:41:32] <Guest7492> 为萨满
606 [05:41:39] <Guest7492> 为什么
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608 [05:42:50] <kill0rmachine> you can tuurn new predict. names of with bootoption "net.ifnames=0"
609 [05:43:11] <Guest7492> 我看不懂
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611 [05:44:16] <Guest7492> 你们好
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620 [05:51:01] <edc_> 你们好
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625 [05:54:17] <edc_> 有人吗
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640 [06:00:40] <kemisten> is there a video player that has a webui for ubuntu server??
641 [06:00:45] <somiaj> kill0rmachine: or just use systemd.link, if you point 99-default.link to /dev/null it turns it off too, and not need a boot parameter
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643 [06:01:10] <somiaj> Ouroboros: man systemd.link (they are a combination of kernel + systemd from my understanding)
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649 [06:01:36] <somiaj> KindaNoob: try to netcat port 21, does it work?
650 [06:02:21] <edc_> how are you
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653 [06:04:14] <somiaj> edc_: this is a support channel for Debian, do you have a support question?
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655 [06:04:53] <KindaNoob> somiaj is it possible that vsftpd starts very slowly
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659 [06:05:26] <Ouroboros> somiaj: i am just trying to determine what i am actually using right now :P
660 [06:05:31] <somiaj> KindaNoob: unsure, I suggest not using ftp if at all possible.
661 [06:05:56] <somiaj> Ouroboros: I'm unsure on what sort of systemd, udev, etc pieces are still around if using sysvint
662 [06:06:40] <somiaj> KindaNoob: if you are using systemd, use systemctl status vsftpd -- that should give you the status of the server
663 [06:06:43] <edc_> 没有。谢谢
664 [06:07:04] <somiaj> edc_: please stop spamming blank lines to the channel
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666 [06:07:25] <Ouroboros> somiaj: god only knows... or why i even did this in the first place
667 [06:07:50] <Ouroboros> somiaj: they are not blank, they are unicode chinese or something
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669 [06:07:54] <somiaj> Ouroboros: some don't like systemd, and more power to them to not use it. I find it a good init system and have no problem using it.
670 [06:08:06] <somiaj> Ouroboros: ahh, must be my character set.
671 [06:08:24] <somiaj> edc_: this is an english channel, there are other support channels for different languages, if you have a support question.
672 [06:08:25] <kill0rmachine> hey is there a way to turn of periodic scaning for networks on wifi brought by network-manager? it cuses lag spikes every 2 or 3 min up 1 second latency over ~5 seconds, its quite anoying when playing online shooters. currently have a "servixce network-manager stop ; iw dev bla connect ..." bash script and there is absolutly no lag without nm ...
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674 [06:08:48] <somiaj> kill0rmachine: you'll have to dig through the network-manager configuration
675 [06:08:59] <edc_> I dont now english
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678 [06:09:11] <somiaj> edc_: what language do you know?
679 [06:09:32] <kill0rmachine> i did, found only stuff on iterwebs where ppl were claiming there is no option to turn it off
680 [06:09:40] <edc_> chanese
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682 [06:09:51] <Ouroboros> somiaj: mainly, i did not want to learn it right now, but i will try it on another machine soon
683 [06:09:55] <somiaj> !chinese
684 [06:09:55] <dpkg> 如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助，請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot 頻道，連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明，或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作！
685 [06:10:32] <farruinn> Ouroboros: any hints in syslog?
686 [06:10:35] <somiaj> Ouroboros: debian has made it fairly painless. All the standard tools, update-rc.d, invoke-rc.d, and service all work with systemd, so little use to know.
687 [06:10:37] <Ouroboros> somiaj: then again, this solution is not ideal either, as obviously there is no way to completely restore everything to sysvinit at this point
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691 [06:11:13] <somiaj> Ouroboros: you can use sysvinit as the init system, but logind and other desktop stuff requires systemd. And since udev is part of systemd, you can't fully get rid of systemd, but you can use a different init system.
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693 [06:11:53] <Ouroboros> well, i did not install desktop, but yes, stuff like udev will stay
694 [06:11:57] <somiaj> kill0rmachine: the only thing I found is there is an option to 'lock your wifi connection profile to the BSSID of your access point' which will stop it.
695 [06:12:20] <Ouroboros> farruinn: hints about what specifically?
696 [06:12:23] <somiaj> kill0rmachine: the other option is to use a different tool, I prefer wpa_supplicant myself (it can fully manage your wifi)
697 [06:12:32] *** Parts: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) ()
698 [06:12:42] <somiaj> Ouroboros: logind is still needed, I assume you followed the instructions for replacing systemd with sysv?
699 [06:12:45] <somiaj> !remove systemd
700 [06:12:45] <dpkg> To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: replaced-url
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704 [06:15:42] <Nautilus> I see a time like this in html/php, does it look like *nix epoch style time? Is there an easy way in *nix to see what the time is now?
705 [06:15:45] <Nautilus> time=1517276249
706 [06:15:53] <Ouroboros> somiaj: the only thing i did so far is install sysvinit-core using preseed/late_command, i did not see the stuff about logind
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708 [06:17:49] <somiaj> Ouroboros: follow that factoid and read up on this on the wiki if you choose to go this route. Sounds lke you are just missing some packages.
709 [06:18:56] <Nautilus> oh, found a web site that will do it easy, fits my immediate need
710 [06:18:58] <somiaj> Nautilus: date -d @1517276249 outputs Mon Jan 29 18:37:29 MST 2018 here
711 [06:19:11] <Nautilus> cool, then that's right
712 [06:19:18] <Nautilus> date ... I was trying time
713 [06:19:31] <somiaj> Nautilus: date will adjust it to your time zone, or utc if you ask it
714 [06:20:25] <Nautilus> ok, just needed a static time for today for some testing, will get to making it dynamic
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716 [06:20:50] <somiaj> Nautilus: man date for more info
717 [06:21:34] <Nautilus> i wondering how to get time zone from web user. There will be location entry (large cities like NYC, Chicago), then might have to derive from there
718 [06:21:47] <Nautilus> orrrr maybe this code uses UTC, still digging
719 [06:22:16] <somiaj> logs often just use the timezone of the server or utc
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721 [06:22:33] <somiaj> you might be able to get a guess from a useragent or geioip, but I think usually it just sets server time
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723 [06:22:49] <Nautilus> I'm rebuilding an ISS tracker site for fun, because it was a nice site
724 [06:23:07] <Nautilus> and I found bits & pieces on wayback machine
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726 [06:24:06] <Nautilus> probably need to assume UTC and then compare my sighting results to nasa
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735 [06:26:16] <Ouroboros> somiaj: btw, replaced-url
736 [06:27:40] <somiaj> that is installing, not removing
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738 [06:27:54] <somiaj> there is a difference
739 [06:28:20] <Ouroboros> how so?
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741 [06:28:53] <somiaj> installing will make it so sysvinit is installed during the install and will include the other stuff, once you have a systemd install, replacing will be a different process
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743 [06:29:36] <Ouroboros> well, yeah, i did that during the install
744 [06:29:50] <somiaj> maybe it isn't complete if systemd-shim was never isntalled, did you isntall systemd-shim
745 [06:29:57] <Ouroboros> but it still installs systemd first too
746 [06:30:25] <somiaj> anyways, I have not tried either approach, but as I said, I kinda like systemd as an init system, a lot of the annoycies of sysv were gone, and it works for my use.
747 [06:30:26] <Ouroboros> i don't think that can be easily avoided
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751 [06:31:00] <somiaj> yea, debian provides a way, but it isn't the smoothest. You need to use one of the few distros that don't use systemd or bsd if you really want to get away from it.
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754 [06:31:48] <Ouroboros> i dont care about it that strongly, this is mostly an experiment
755 [06:31:58] <Ouroboros> i will research what you suggested further
756 [06:31:59] <somiaj> that is a fine reason to play around.
757 [06:32:42] <somiaj> I just never have tried it, and my use case is very simple, so really the only reason I know anything about systemd is learning to support it. For what I use debian for (As a desktop hobbiest) it was a plainless transition.
758 [06:33:50] <Ouroboros> i am just happy that nothing exploded and the system is usable after install :P took me over a week to get here
759 [06:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
760 [06:34:34] <Ouroboros> (for unrelated reasons)
761 [06:34:49] <somiaj> well it has been a long time since I have seen a computer explode, I have only done that once, and it was due to user error.
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763 [06:35:43] <Ouroboros> you did 'touch /sys/fuse', eh
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767 [06:37:47] <somiaj> No, this was pre 80086 hardware, some computer I had as a kid, I was trying to plug it in to a socket that had no cover, so I pluged one in to the power, and the other end hit the metal frame, grounding it, sending a surge through the machine, and the machine started smoking
768 [06:37:57] <Nautilus> woowoo, just compared my results to nasa's, and it's correct to the minute (lowest res that nasa shows).
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770 [06:38:28] <somiaj> it was quite bizzare, and it wasn't even the computer I pluged in, it was a printer, and the shock went throught he printer into the computer, and the computer started smoking and never wokred again. It was a kaypro or something liek that.
771 [06:38:39] <Ouroboros> my last actual debian install was in 2008 (etch), some things have changed, most things have remained the same
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773 [06:39:51] * Nautilus smoked plenty of parts with hobbyist wiring in those days. oops, too much power on that diode!
774 [06:40:17] <Ouroboros> somiaj: hm, i never killed any equipment like that, but i almost killed myself several times
775 [06:40:29] <Nautilus> glass 914's smart when they hit you on the wrist underside
776 [06:40:37] <Ouroboros> Nautilus: ever try a diode straight into mains? :P
777 [06:40:46] <Ouroboros> ah, i see that you have
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779 [06:41:26] <somiaj> anyways, enough reminising, back to debian support.
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781 [06:41:41] <Nautilus> Ouroboros: nah that was still low power DC, but I -have- hooked up an automotive coil to a big ass diode and plugged it in. Stayed well away from the power end of that project.
782 [06:41:56] <Nautilus> in = 120vac
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784 [06:42:22] <Nautilus> ion generator :)
785 [06:42:37] <Ouroboros> oh sure
786 [06:42:52] <Ouroboros> anyway, back to hacking this thing
787 [06:42:58] <Nautilus> nods
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801 [06:50:59] <KindaNoob> somaij thnx
802 [06:51:04] <KindaNoob> somiaj thnx
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817 [07:05:28] <akd> I am trying to get v1.0.9 here : replaced-url
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819 [07:05:39] <akd> How can I get the 2nd line ? taiL?
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821 [07:08:03] <akd> I am trying to get the version "v1.0.9" on the 2nd line of stdout here : replaced-url
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827 [07:11:05] <somiaj> akd: well it seems you got it, you just want to store it as some variable?
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829 [07:12:56] <akd> yes
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831 [07:14:20] <somiaj> akd: Unusre of the best way to do this, but this may work, first remove that ${ROLLUP_UMD_URL} (as I don't think that is needed) and try VARNAME=`git ls-remote ...`
832 [07:16:46] <akd> well, that's wrong
833 [07:16:49] <akd> git version are wrong
834 [07:16:58] <akd> v1.0.9 is newer than v1.0.30
835 [07:17:14] <somiaj> in most version systems that is not the case, usually 30 > 9
836 [07:17:49] <somiaj> but unsure exactly what you are doing, I was just giving a method to take the output you are getting and put it into a variable
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851 [07:25:52] <Tech_Guy> hi
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878 [07:52:07] <AliceKelly> how is webgl installed. is it a package or part of the browser
879 [07:52:56] <Ouroboros> no idea, but you can search for it using apt-cache and apt-file
880 [07:53:04] <AliceKelly> ty
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882 [07:54:17] <somiaj> webgl is a standard, it isn't really installed
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884 [07:54:55] <somiaj> No clue why your webgl isn't working, but your browser says it is, and your browser is able to then use your oses gl setup.
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886 [07:55:19] <AliceKelly> ive come to the conclusion that its a webgl version problem
887 [07:55:22] <somiaj> AliceKelly: replaced-url
888 [07:55:33] <AliceKelly> card only supports up to 1.4
889 [07:55:38] <somiaj> you should see a spinning cube
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891 [07:56:11] <AliceKelly> Hmm. While your browser seems to support WebGL, it is disabled or unavailable. If possible, please ensure that you are running the latest drivers for your video card.
892 [07:56:43] <somiaj> what video card do you have?
893 [07:56:55] <AliceKelly> radeon 9000
894 [07:57:07] <AliceKelly> rv250
895 [07:57:10] <somiaj> and you have firmware-amd-graphics installed?
896 [07:57:15] <AliceKelly> yes
897 [07:57:37] <somiaj> unsure, I'm using nvidia + non-free drivers here, but it could be some issue with the radeon card/drivers you have is all I can assume too
898 [07:57:42] <AliceKelly> the card only supports webgl version 1.4 supposedly
899 [07:57:45] <somiaj> I dind't do anything special to get it to work on my system.
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902 [07:58:21] <somiaj> AliceKelly: glxinfo | grep -i version [what version of OpenGL do you have compadailbty for?
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905 [07:58:28] <AliceKelly> this doesnt support catilyst
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907 [07:58:58] <somiaj> you aren't using catilyst anyways, so that shoudln't matter, that project I think is dead and debian no longer provides the flgrx drivers anymore
908 [07:59:13] <somiaj> older cards work with radeon + nonfree firmawre, newer with amdgpu
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910 [08:00:00] <AliceKelly> it says version 1.4
911 [08:00:07] <AliceKelly> so that wasnt it
912 [08:00:12] <somiaj> what says version 1.4,
913 [08:00:23] <somiaj> that maybe your glx version, but it may need opengl version as well
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915 [08:00:31] <AliceKelly> back to the drawing board, see you in a couple days
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960 [08:39:07] <debianuser_> Hey guys, I have Debian 9 and install all the required packages to run php7. But I'm getting this error and can't run wordpress
961 [08:39:08] <debianuser_> Uncaught Error: Call to undefined function mysql_connect()
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969 [08:45:55] <nkuttler> debianuser_: apt-cache search php mysql, and install whatever you need
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971 [08:46:08] <debianuser_> nkuttler: done that
972 [08:46:13] <nkuttler> done what?
973 [08:46:28] <debianuser_> I have php-mysql and php7.0-mysql installed
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976 [08:46:43] <nkuttler> debianuser_: did you restart your webserver?
977 [08:46:48] <debianuser_> Yeah
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979 [08:46:58] <debianuser_> is this also needed php-mdb2-driver-mysql?
980 [08:47:58] <nkuttler> debianuser_: replaced-url
981 [08:48:03] <nkuttler> removed in php 7
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984 [08:48:17] <debianuser_> hmm, can't use wordpress anymore ?
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986 [08:48:43] <nkuttler> worpdress claims they are php7 compatible, you probably want #wordpress
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988 [08:48:50] <debianuser_> Thanks
989 [08:48:53] <nkuttler> perhaps some plugin..
990 [08:49:08] <debianuser_> about to ask there. thanks
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1045 [09:27:25] <wonderer> hi all
1046 [09:27:50] <wonderer> does anyone know what are the changes in init.d from version 6 upto 9
1047 [09:28:13] <wonderer> just wondering what will break if i attempt step upgrade from v6 onwards
1048 [09:28:28] <wonderer> so i can prepare for this problems thx
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1064 [09:34:37] <addkt> Hello all
1065 [09:34:40] <addkt> How is everyone doing?
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1067 [09:35:41] <wonderer> hi
1068 [09:36:14] <wonderer> its saturdays, so i guess for most of us - its weekend off work :D
1069 [09:38:00] <addkt> That is always the prize at the end of the week! lol
1070 [09:38:38] <wonderer> heh
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1072 [09:39:03] <addkt> is anyone else alive in here besides you wonderer?
1073 [09:39:10] <AliceKelly> i am
1074 [09:39:31] <addkt> Good Evening/Afternoon/Morning to you alice. Depending on where you are.
1075 [09:39:54] <AliceKelly> night in nebraska
1076 [09:40:11] <addkt> Well Hello from Utah
1077 [09:40:47] <wonderer> depending where u guys/gals are, properly early morning
1078 [09:40:55] <wonderer> can i ask question on debian?
1079 [09:41:01] <jelly> !ask
1080 [09:41:01] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1081 [09:41:19] <AliceKelly> morning jelly
1082 [09:41:38] <wonderer> already asked jelly :D
1083 [09:41:53] <wonderer> does anyone know what are the changes in init.d from version 6 upto 9
1084 [09:42:05] <wonderer> just wondering what will break if i attempt step upgrade from v6 onwards?
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1086 [09:42:40] <AliceKelly> wow
1087 [09:42:45] <jelly> each release has release notes documenting major changes in functionality
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1092 [09:43:30] <wonderer> trying to find these specific not on init.d not easily done putting a search term in G
1093 [09:43:35] <jelly> wonderer, so you'll want to read debian 7 (wheezy) release notes, then jessie release notes, then stretch release notes
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1096 [09:44:05] <wonderer> jelly thats the best bet i am guessing too
1097 [09:45:03] <wonderer> debian.org has these version not sepperately or i have to d/l iso's to see
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1099 [09:45:37] <jelly> on switching to systemd you'll find init script compatibility is a bit different and lsb headers in init scripts are mandatory
1100 [09:46:00] <jelly> dpkg, squeeze->wheezy
1101 [09:46:00] <dpkg> Read chapter 4 ("Upgrades from Debian 6.0") of the <release notes>. In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "squeeze" to "wheezy" (noting that <wheezy-backports> have changed on the mirrors). apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade. See also <squeeze->wheezy failures>.
1102 [09:46:07] <wonderer> ok now doing that speicifc search term in G i get better results
1103 [09:46:10] <wonderer> thx jelly
1104 [09:46:11] <jelly> !wheezy release notes
1105 [09:46:11] <dpkg> Release notes for Debian 7 "Wheezy" are at replaced-url
1106 [09:46:46] <wonderer> cool tvm jelly
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1109 [09:47:27] <jelly> if your system is still on debian 6 you might want to replace it with a clean installation and migrate data and apps, instead of doing three in-place release upgrades
1110 [09:48:41] <jelly> after 6->7 to still have to
1111 [09:48:50] <jelly> dpkg, wheezy->jessie
1112 [09:48:51] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
1113 [09:48:58] <jelly> and
1114 [09:49:04] <jelly> dpkg, jessie->stretch
1115 [09:49:04] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
1116 [09:49:12] <wonderer> jelly
1117 [09:49:19] <wonderer> will do jump upto 7 1st
1118 [09:49:51] <jelly> only 8 and 9 have support right now
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1120 [09:50:49] <wonderer> problem is this srv on deb 6 is runing a variety of python scripts/php driven sites which no-one knwo how it was coded
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1122 [09:51:17] <jelly> php ones are likely to break after php version is bumper
1123 [09:51:23] <jelly> bumped
1124 [09:51:23] <wonderer> so luckyly its a VM we can clone and rebuild elsewhere and perform thes inplace upgrade 1 v. at a time
1125 [09:51:30] <wonderer> ofc
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1127 [09:51:42] <wonderer> but i have some experience in php upgrades
1128 [09:51:57] <wonderer> and runnign these side by sid eon same box and fixing the compat issues that arise
1129 [09:52:30] <jelly> it might be less work fixing them once to work on php7.0 than fixing them three times, for php 5.4 then 5.6 then 7.0
1130 [09:52:33] <wonderer> its going to be painfull upgrade as my task is to keep old box going and upgrade it..
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1132 [09:53:12] <wonderer> well i have ask todo this wholesale version upgrade to deb 8 or 9
1133 [09:53:26] <wonderer> but that idea wasnt welcome just yet
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1135 [09:54:10] <wonderer> but php 5.4 then 5.6 then 7.0 on deb 7 or 8 i hope gets the site/db working fine and at least on a stable semi supported version
1136 [09:54:11] <jelly> you could make your company pay for extended LTS support for debian 7 then
1137 [09:54:14] <wonderer> we will see
1138 [09:54:27] <wonderer> ah.. good point
1139 [09:54:46] <jelly> replaced-url
1140 [09:55:51] <wonderer> great thx
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1160 [10:09:59] <AliceKelly> anyone know a deb app to clean up directories n crap when apps are uninstalled
1161 [10:10:12] <AliceKelly> like an android cleaner ?
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1163 [10:10:41] <kirk781> ccleaner
1164 [10:10:52] <AliceKelly> free ?
1165 [10:11:02] <AliceKelly> for deb ?
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1176 [10:18:06] <lsdage> Look at Bleachbit
1177 [10:18:15] <lsdage> it is in the repos
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1181 [10:20:53] <AliceKelly> working now, thanks
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1221 [10:52:43] <michael2> hi all. Ive connected my wifi adapter to a WPA secured AP using wpa_supplicant - now I need to connect to a regular non-secured AP - but iwconfig wont associate anymore - recommendations?
1222 [10:53:11] <michael2> ive killed wpa_supplicant - that hasn't helped
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1236 [11:06:39] <pingfloyd> michael2: probably a firmware problem
1237 [11:06:56] <pingfloyd> michael2: have you tried updating your wifi firmware from backports?
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1240 [11:10:15] <michael2> pingfloyd: yeah, it wouldnt surprise me if firmware problem
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1243 [11:10:47] <michael2> the firmware package in main hasn'tbee updated for a few years - checking backports now
1244 [11:11:12] <pingfloyd> it fixed a similar issue for me
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1248 [11:15:09] <DrBunsen> Hello, does anyone have any experience compiling freecad on debian stable? I get the error ''make' it gives me 'make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.' When following replaced-url
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1263 [11:21:40] <xormor> if I kill a process or an application or a program, does the memory get freed? I am on Debian GNU/Linux stable 9 "stretch".
1264 [11:23:14] <JPT> If you kill a process, the memory it used will be free for the kernel to use
1265 [11:23:48] <JPT> It may use free ram for caching data or assign chunks of it to processes that ask for it.
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1305 [11:46:33] <padomay> clear
1306 [11:46:38] <padomay> sorry, forgot the /
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1315 [11:52:10] <mossad_did_9-11> DON'T BELIEVE THE JEWISH LIES
1316 [11:52:15] <mossad_did_9-11> MOSSAD DID 9/11
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1353 [12:07:46] <BenjaminA> my sister really hates me And i want her to hate me more soo please send my regards replaced-url
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1355 [12:08:19] <DrBunsen> NYPA
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1415 [13:00:06] <Lookme> replaced-url
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1432 [13:06:53] <klinux> hi guys
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1435 [13:07:35] <klinux> I have upgrade the packages on synaptic and when the upgrade is finished synaptic show me this message
1436 [13:07:56] <klinux> W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_cl' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permesso negato)
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1446 [13:13:02] <klinux> synaptic has been started open the icon that run this command synaptic-pkexec
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1454 [13:16:34] <Dal1980> Hi guys
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1466 [13:22:12] <Dal1980> Could someone help me with understanding a little about this issue. (working in CLI Environment only i.e. no desktop). If I try to install using `apt-get...` I get a permissions problem so I have to use `sudo apt-get...` but then that seems to make the program require root privileges `sudo myprogram` to run. Did I miss something with how sudo or apt-get works? (debian 9.4)
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1474 [13:26:53] <Dal1980> I accept I may have asked a stupid question btw :)
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1478 [13:27:56] <Dal1980> When I start my program without `sudo` it tells me the program doesn't have permissions to run
1479 [13:28:20] <Dal1980> When I start with `sudo` the program then thinks I'm root and my home directory is /root
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1482 [13:30:34] <wigums> Dal1980: for all practical purposes in this situation think of sudo as being root
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1485 [13:31:37] <alx_fly> hello
1486 [13:31:46] <Dal1980> but why do I need to be root to start `sudo xinit {program}`?
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1488 [13:32:02] <wigums> you dont need sudo when youre logged in as root
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1490 [13:32:16] <alx_fly> my rhythmbox is crashing sometimes... all 20 min or so by hearing music from sftp server via nautilus....
1491 [13:32:24] <Dal1980> I'm not logged in as root wigums
1492 [13:32:41] <Dal1980> doing `xinit {program}` gives me permission errors
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1497 [13:35:47] <Dal1980> Ok - well actually talking this one out a little has helped. - I think I need to get xinit working without needing sudo to solve all my problems. Going to read up on that as a line of attack :) thanks wigums
1498 [13:37:03] <klinux> Dal1980 the synaptic error is this:?
1499 [13:37:13] <klinux> Dal1980 Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_cl' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permesso negato)
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1508 [13:46:43] <Dal1980> Oh - not sure about the problem specifically but seems to work under `startx` instead of using `xinit` and I don't need `sudo` to run `startx`. Thanks
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1538 [14:08:10] <padomay> hi there.. i have a problem with my system.. after a while i am using it, it just freezes. I state that i'm new to this distribution, i've been using it for 2 months
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1541 [14:08:20] <padomay> and i have 9.4 with the cinnamon desktop
1542 [14:08:26] <padomay> what can i do?
1543 [14:10:22] <kirk781> Does changing the desktop environment help?
1544 [14:10:27] <han-solo> Did you find anything interesting in the messages.log or dmesg ?
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1548 [14:12:07] <padomay_> Like now.. it freezed after i sent the last message... I had to reboot.. it's so annoying
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1551 [14:15:19] <han-solo> I seem to be having this same issue, but i think, that's because of my system overheating
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1557 [14:18:19] <ign4tius> Cell
1558 [14:18:21] <padomay_> han-solo i thought that.. and i started to keep the system monitor open... But it just freezes with no symptoms
1559 [14:18:29] <nix64bit> I have had a freezing desktop for years now, only every few weeks, sometimes months
1560 [14:18:45] <nix64bit> no symptoms no error messages
1561 [14:19:20] <nix64bit> i asked on this forum and had no luck
1562 [14:19:56] <padomay_> Mmmmh for me the problems started with stretch using sinnamon. Before this i had jessie with xfce and it never stopped
1563 [14:20:19] <john1008> i experienced freezes with 4.9 kernel and ryzen5 cpu, after upgrading the kernel it was gone
1564 [14:20:44] <han-solo> I use xfce
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1566 [14:21:09] <han-solo> 4.9.0-4-amd64
1567 [14:21:12] <nix64bit> i am on test now and it hasn't frozen since, also on xfce
1568 [14:21:19] <padomay_> john1008 well i don't even know how to upgrade the kernel lol
1569 [14:21:29] <han-solo> Yeah, john1008 i used to get some kernel performance monitoring messages in logs
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1571 [14:21:38] <john1008> get the 4.16 from backports ?
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1573 [14:22:01] <han-solo> um, i'm not sure if that would be a good idea for me given the circumstances
1574 [14:22:24] <john1008> you can still return to 4.9
1575 [14:22:34] <han-solo> Yes
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1577 [14:22:39] <klinux> guys nothins has had my same problem with debian 9.4?
1578 [14:23:06] <padomay_> klinux, what type of problem?
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1581 [14:24:13] <klinux> padomay_ I have upgraded firefox package and other with synaptic and synaptic show me this message
1582 [14:24:24] <klinux> padomay_ W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_cl' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permesso negato)
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1585 [14:25:58] <padomay_> klinux, ah sei italiano? :)
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1587 [14:26:17] <klinux> padomay_ si della sicilia :)
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1590 [14:27:07] <padomay_> klinux, bella io sono sardo :) comunque non ho abbastanza esperienza per aiutarti scusa... Uso linux solo da questo dicembre
1591 [14:27:35] <han-solo> English please
1592 [14:27:52] <john1008> klinux google shows a synaptic bug on first hits
1593 [14:28:06] <john1008> why not use apt instead
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1595 [14:28:39] <han-solo> i'm not sure, if it a write way, or even sane, but rm -rf /root/.synaptic ?
1596 [14:28:44] <padomay_> han-solo, yeah sorry, it's just exiting to hear your native langiage in a huge chat like this :)
1597 [14:28:44] <klinux> john1008 I use synaptic because is user friendly
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1599 [14:29:09] <john1008> its just gui
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1604 [14:30:36] <john1008> to type : sudo apt install whateverprog is userfriendly enough :)
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1610 [14:31:46] <klinux> the permission of folder tmp are "700 tmp"
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1614 [14:33:06] <han-solo> so only you have the access
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1616 [14:33:31] <klinux> synaptic has been started with icon that run this command "synaptic-pkexec"
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1618 [14:33:49] <han-solo> i never use synaptic
1619 [14:33:54] <han-solo> s/use/used/
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1622 [14:35:37] <padomay_> Is synaptic something like a package manager?
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1625 [14:36:38] <annadane> yes, it is
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1628 [14:39:58] <padomay_> Get it... why would anyone use it? Is it better than apt?
1629 [14:40:29] <han-solo> it's a GUI, i guess
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1632 [14:41:30] <padomay_> Oh ok
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1634 [14:43:08] <klinux> padomay_ synaptic is a graphical front-end for APT
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1636 [14:43:41] <padomay_> Got it.. i thought it was and alternative for apt...
1637 [14:44:40] <p21k> it is just a gui no point in using that
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1648 [14:48:43] <padomay_> p21k, yeah yeah :)
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1650 [14:49:45] <john1008> klinux there are tons of googlehits about this issue why dont drop synaptic and use apt aptitude or else ?
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1652 [14:50:43] <john1008> you could use the -s to be sure what will be installed
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1655 [14:52:37] <p21k> you need to confirm the installation when using apt so u get the output of everything that will be installed either way no need to use flags that will just slow down the install
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1657 [14:53:18] <p21k> if u don't want something to be installed ever on your system just use apt-pinning
1658 [14:53:46] <klinux> john1008 if synaptic has a bug you should not avoid it using the apt CLI but you have to correct it!
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1664 [14:55:51] <p21k> klinux, if u spot a bug it doesn't mean you can correct it. Not everyone is a programmer
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1666 [14:56:01] <john1008> you dont want to know how many bugs i worked around and i am using debian therefore to minimize those situations
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1669 [14:56:55] <p21k> if u want to minimize these situations use slackware
1670 [14:57:04] <john1008> haha
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1674 [14:58:22] <klinux> p21k this is true, but it is also true that the debian community, irc assistance is needed to discuss the problems that users have with the distros and if there is any programmer, take initiative to give solutions
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1676 [14:59:25] <john1008> p21k slackies have been the ones with the worst problems i met in all the years :P
1677 [15:00:31] <john1008> well i dont want to start a distro war :)
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1679 [15:01:06] <p21k> ok i was just about to write a whole essey but yeah you are right let's just keep it calm xd
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1681 [15:02:07] <padomay_> Totally agree with what klinux said.. as a new user all i can say is that just staying in a channel like this
1682 [15:02:37] <p21k> well reporting the problem is a different thing and u should do that
1683 [15:02:43] <padomay_> People print write here their problems and other people solve them
1684 [15:02:45] <p21k> if u don't u are just an asshole tbh
1685 [15:03:24] <padomay_> Sometimes i solved some errors just remembering things posted here
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1702 [15:17:08] <padomay_> Does debian has an offtopic channel? Like in the linux mint irc community there are #linuxmint-help and #linuxmint-chat
1703 [15:17:31] <p21k> padomay_, #debian-offtopic
1704 [15:17:43] <padomay_> Oh shit ahahahah
1705 [15:17:50] <padomay_> Thanks :)
1706 [15:17:53] <p21k> np
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1724 [15:32:54] <alx_fly> so there are many time memory access errors on rhythmbox...
1725 [15:33:24] <alx_fly> (13:55:11) [0x562f4059c960] [connection_closed_cb] rb-metadata-dbus-service.c:218: client connection closed
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1727 [15:33:25] <alx_fly> Speicherzugriffsfehler
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1732 [15:34:16] <alx_fly> i will switch to Audacious
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1735 [15:36:36] <padomay_> I use audacious too. Rhythmbox looks like a 20 year old music player.. i don't like it
1736 [15:38:58] <alx_fly> padomay_: i liked rhythmbox in jessie and it was pretty stable
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1738 [15:40:04] <padomay_> I used it only because i was new to linix and didn't know what else to install
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1759 [16:03:55] <jim> hi, looking to install gnu m4, but it can't find the package in stretch after a full reinstall
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1763 [16:05:15] <jim> (if this is an xyproblem, the y is to support my sources.list.m4 :)
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1766 [16:07:48] <babilen> jim: What does "apt-cache policy ; apt-cache policy m4" give you?
1767 [16:07:52] <babilen> → replaced-url
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1772 [16:08:54] <jim> sec
1773 [16:09:54] <jim> babilen, replaced-url
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1775 [16:10:16] <babilen> That's unlikely to be the entire output
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1777 [16:10:40] <babilen> "head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}" gives you ?
1778 [16:11:14] <jim> babilen, I'll show you the whole original file
1779 [16:11:36] <jim> oh, you want sources.list.d too
1780 [16:12:02] <jim> well I'll give you just that
1781 [16:12:29] <babilen> Just run the command and paste its output
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1785 [16:14:26] <jim> babilen, replaced-url
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1788 [16:15:43] <babilen> jim: Does the output of "apt-cache policy m4" change if you run "apt update" ?
1789 [16:16:19] <babilen> Seeing the output of "apt update" might be interesting too along that of "apt-cache policy" as requested earlier
1790 [16:16:26] <babilen> judd: v m4 --release stretch
1791 [16:16:27] <judd> Package: m4 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.4.18-1
1792 [16:16:38] <babilen> ^ package should™ be in stretch
1793 [16:16:53] <babilen> Unless that mirror is funny
1794 [16:17:11] <jim> yeah, and I had it before I had to reinstall the os :)
1795 [16:18:19] <jim> \ohshoot, I revealed my screamingly fast mirror :/
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1799 [16:20:30] <jim> I'll do it separately
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1801 [16:21:54] <jim> replaced-url
1802 [16:23:07] <babilen> Your sources.list does not fit your "apt-cache policy" output
1803 [16:23:36] <jim> then I need to do another update
1804 [16:23:38] <babilen> But I guess I'll have to wait for you to drip feed the output
1805 [16:23:46] <jim> sec
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1807 [16:24:05] <babilen> Run "apt update" and paste that along with policy
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1809 [16:24:37] <babilen> If that's still the same use a different (meta-)mirror such as deb.debian.org in lieu of the one you're using currently
1810 [16:25:46] <jim> ok.. meanwhile: replaced-url
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1814 [16:27:06] <jim> replaced-url
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1818 [16:28:25] <jim> replaced-url
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1820 [16:29:15] <jim> replaced-url
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1822 [16:30:09] <babilen> There you go
1823 [16:30:41] <jim> oh what do you knw, it works now
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1826 [16:33:26] <babilen> ;)
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1830 [16:36:28] <jim> in case you're curious... replaced-url
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1832 [16:37:10] <jim> I have all that ubuntu stuff disabled for now, it's just sources anyway
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1834 [16:39:57] <babilen> Well, just keep in mind that we don't support such Frankendebians in this channel
1835 [16:40:34] <babilen> So you might want to consider sticking to official repos if you require support here. If not, there's ##linux as a more generic channel
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1839 [16:42:05] <jim> I happen to be an admin in linux :) and, I had requested of the debian bot crew, that they remove the reference to linux in the frankendebian factoid :)
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1841 [16:42:44] <jim> I believe you guys did remove it (for which I thank you)...
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1846 [16:43:47] <babilen> So you're saying that ##linux would, in fact, not support users with such systems?
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1850 [16:44:37] <jim> it's not that we want to refuse to help in cases like that, but it's clearly a debian-specific issue, as it's related to the specific issues that can trouble the debian packaging database that gets built on each installation :)
1851 [16:44:56] <babilen> mind a pm?
1852 [16:45:00] <jim> sure
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1931 [17:37:34] <OS-38285> /msg NickServ REGISTER Hi@hexchat2018 slamichhane@regi.edu
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1943 [17:44:53] <abrotman> OS-38631: try again ...
1944 [17:45:03] <abrotman> oh, different UID?
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2133 [19:49:12] <azy> what up pimpz. how do i get the latest firefox? im stuck on 52.8.1
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2137 [19:54:32] <adicarlo> azy: what are you running, stretch?
2138 [19:54:38] <azy> ye
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2140 [19:55:47] <adicarlo> azy: you're looking for 60 or better?
2141 [19:56:12] <azy> the latest stable firefox, i thought it was 58 or something
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2143 [19:56:47] <velix> Firejail with chroot is evil stuff :D
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2145 [19:58:30] <adicarlo> azy: replaced-url
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2147 [19:59:10] <adicarlo> personally I use conkeror or chrome, but... they all suck
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2151 [19:59:37] <adicarlo> ok, I answered a question, let's ask one!
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2164 [20:01:26] <adicarlo> my linker cannot find libGL, and I can't quite understand why not...
2165 [20:01:28] <adicarlo> ii glx-diversions 0.7.4 amd64 prepare for using accelerated GLX implementations from GPU vendors
2166 [20:01:28] <adicarlo> ii libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64 13.0.6-1+b2 amd64 free implementation of the OpenGL API -- DRI modules
2167 [20:01:28] <adicarlo> ii libgl1-nvidia-legacy-340xx-glx:amd64 340.106-2~deb9u1 amd64 NVIDIA binary OpenGL/GLX library (340xx legacy version)
2168 [20:01:32] <adicarlo>
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2172 [20:01:42] <adicarlo> sheessh
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2188 [20:03:31] <adicarlo> at any rate, on the lowest possible level, 'ldconfig -v | grep libGL.so' gives nada
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2260 [20:06:13] <somiaj> adicarlo: I don't see the -dev package for libgl1-mesa installed. libgl1-mesa-dev
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2265 [20:06:29] <adicarlo> somiaj: OMG you're right
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2267 [20:06:31] <somiaj> oh wait, this is the linker, not builder...nevermind
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2269 [20:06:37] <somiaj> oh this is the builder?
2270 [20:06:41] <adicarlo> well good to have that anyhow
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2281 [20:06:54] <adicarlo> well its failing in linker really
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2287 [20:07:12] <adicarlo> but the fact that ldconfig can't find it, nothing will be able to
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2296 [20:07:50] <adicarlo> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1 -> /etc/alternatives/glx--libGL.so.1-x86_64-linux-gnu, and /etc/alternatives/glx--libGL.so.1-x86_64-linux-gnu -> /usr/lib/mesa-diverted/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1
2297 [20:07:54] <adicarlo> that looks right, yes?
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2303 [20:08:08] <somiaj> are you actually running the nvidia non-free drivers?
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2309 [20:08:28] <adicarlo> somiaj: no I have them installed for use of a 2nd CUDA video card
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2315 [20:09:07] <somiaj> okay, just one thing I noticed. Maybe there is some issue with them bothing being installed and confusing the linker. What actual program/command is not working
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2318 [20:09:11] <adicarlo> somiaj: but for X use, I'm running just intel integrated video, I'm not a gamer, just trying to get gl working again
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2323 [20:09:26] <adicarlo> somiaj: ldconfig -v | grep libGL.so
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2325 [20:09:33] <adicarlo> but what's failing is any attempt to link with -lGL
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2333 [20:10:20] <adicarlo> if I replace -lGL with the full path, /usr/lib/mesa-diverted/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1.2.0
2334 [20:10:24] <adicarlo> it works, but that's BS
2335 [20:10:29] <somiaj> adicarlo: -lGL is a building flag, give the actual command that fails
2336 [20:10:33] <somiaj> adicarlo: does glxgears fail?
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2341 [20:10:48] <adicarlo> somiaj: no that works
2342 [20:10:54] <adicarlo> glxinfo looks OK too
2343 [20:10:54] <somiaj> but if using gcc with the -lGL is failing, this is not linking, this is building, so you need the -dev package to build
2344 [20:11:00] <somiaj> then things are linking correctly
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2346 [20:11:10] <adicarlo> somiaj: ok cool, let me retry
2347 [20:11:25] <adicarlo> somiaj: so that fact that libGL is not listed in ldconfig output you think is not a problemo?, that's normal>
2348 [20:11:31] <velix> apt-get install beer
2349 [20:11:32] <somiaj> you are just not able to build without the development headers, so what is running -lGL that is actually failing (this sounds like an XY problem)
2350 [20:11:34] <adicarlo> maybe I got distracted by my own misunderstanding
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2352 [20:12:03] <velix> apt-get install more-beer
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2354 [20:13:31] <somiaj> adicarlo: unsure why ldconfig isn't linking this, but this is an XY problem, state the actual problem. If 'glxgears' works, your libgl libaries are working and linking (otherwise glxgears would fail), you could also check glxinfo
2355 [20:13:41] <somiaj> adicarlo: I mean listing that
2356 [20:14:00] <adicarlo> somiaj: what do you mean by "xy problem" ?
2357 [20:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1585
2358 [20:14:10] <somiaj> !xy problem
2359 [20:14:11] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
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2361 [20:14:27] <adicarlo> somiaj: yah you got it thank you!!
2362 [20:14:35] <adicarlo> bella
2363 [20:15:33] <adicarlo> as you stated, it was the missing -dev
2364 [20:15:37] <somiaj> anyways I only know the basics of this stuff too, but what you are doing sounds unstandard, hence I thik you are trying to something, it has failed. Hence knowing what the actual goal is helps
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2366 [20:15:49] <adicarlo> unstandard?
2367 [20:15:53] <adicarlo> seems pretty standard to me
2368 [20:16:05] <somiaj> yea, that is due to building something that needs to link against the libaries at build time, is not the same linking to a libary at run time
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2370 [20:16:24] <adicarlo> its true -- there are a lot of dragons in the world of linking
2371 [20:17:02] <somiaj> using ldconfig (a tool for run-time linking) will not help with figuring out a build-time linking issue. Hence assuming the output of ldconfig -v | grep libGL was the cause of your issue is undstandard.
2372 [20:17:27] <adicarlo> oh i think you mean "misdiagnosis of the problem" more than unstandard
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2374 [20:17:34] <adicarlo> but i gotcha, you're right
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2376 [20:17:54] <somiaj> I rarely see anyone needing to run ldconfig directly, (:
2377 [20:18:09] <somiaj> debian packages do a good job at keeping things correctly linked.
2378 [20:18:24] <adicarlo> libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1 (0x00007f1832824000)
2379 [20:18:26] <adicarlo> yes indeed
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2381 [20:19:38] <adicarlo> next i gotta dive into the dark world of CUDA -- its a shame that seems to be dominating over openCL etc
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2383 [20:20:51] <somiaj> mostly due to the power of the nvidia gpu.
2384 [20:21:15] <somiaj> though intel does provide nice openGL drivers (though they are non-free) for their chipsets to be able to do some stuff.
2385 [20:21:29] <adicarlo> intel drops a lot of $$ into linux development
2386 [20:22:16] <somiaj> yup, and one of the better companies, because they want their hardware to be used across the board, but the opneCL drivers aren't free from my understanding, or at least not in debian, need to get them from intel directly
2387 [20:22:23] <[DragOn]> amd is faster when it comes to IO
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2389 [20:22:33] <adicarlo> although I have a sneaking suspicion we're really only using 10% of the capabilities of our hardware, at best
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2391 [20:22:55] <adicarlo> somiaj: that suprises me
2392 [20:23:37] <adicarlo> how stable is buster these days? stretch is getting pretty long in the tooth
2393 [20:24:11] <adicarlo> I don't like tracking testing -- except mabye in that last 6 month period prior to release when its often better than stable -- but I've already pulled in so much on my deevelopment workstation...
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2399 [20:25:00] <somiaj> adicarlo: the freeze is scheduled for januray 2019
2400 [20:25:12] <adicarlo> ah so we're getting there
2401 [20:25:21] <adicarlo> arent' there still some major transitions yet to happen?
2402 [20:25:23] <somiaj> buster is kinda bad for security support, and is okay, but in the end could take a bit of work during some of the transitions
2403 [20:25:26] <somiaj> yup
2404 [20:25:36] <somiaj> jan 17th 2019 I think is the transition freeze
2405 [20:25:42] <somiaj> they will be happening for the next 6 months
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2413 [20:27:59] <adicarlo> alright, looks like I need to wait until Q12019
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2455 [20:43:27] <dreamer> hi all, I'm trying to install the nvidia driver from backports, but then I get: nvidia-driver : Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
2456 [20:43:47] <dreamer> on stretch, following: replaced-url
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2458 [20:43:52] <somiaj> dreamer: what exact command are you typing to do this?
2459 [20:44:03] <adicarlo> more nvidia problemos!
2460 [20:44:17] <dreamer> 'apt-get install -t stretch-backports nvidia-driver '
2461 [20:44:22] <dreamer> adicarlo: since forever
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2463 [20:44:56] <somiaj> dreamer: well lets try to track down the cause of this conflict, what does 'apt install -t stretch-backports xserver-xorg-video-nvidia' do, can you put the full output at paste.debian.net
2464 [20:45:07] <dreamer> sure
2465 [20:45:18] <somiaj> dreamer: also have you installed the nvidia driver from stretch normally yet?
2466 [20:46:21] <dreamer> replaced-url
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2469 [20:48:38] <somiaj> dreamer: why don't you have xserver-xorg-core installed? apt policy xserver-xorg-core output plese
2470 [20:48:57] <dreamer> this is actually not on a desktop machine
2471 [20:49:12] <somiaj> then what is the goal? Cuda?
2472 [20:49:15] <dreamer> yup
2473 [20:49:23] <somiaj> the problem is you need xserver-xorg-core for the driver to install
2474 [20:49:38] <dreamer> ok, but that depends on a bpo version as well then?
2475 [20:49:49] <somiaj> I'm unsure if this is required for cuda or not, but it is required for this, and backports pinning is getting int he way, try to manually install xserver-xorg-core without using -t stretch-backports
2476 [20:49:58] <somiaj> note this is just the server core, no actual xclient
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2478 [20:50:01] <dreamer> ok
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2480 [20:50:29] <somiaj> I have no experience with CUDA, so not sure if you can use different drivers or not for it
2481 [20:50:53] <dreamer> n/p :)
2482 [20:51:03] <dreamer> ok, installed xserver-xorg-core and trying the nvidia-driver from backports
2483 [20:51:13] <dreamer> bunch of stuff downloading and installing. so seems ok :)
2484 [20:51:20] <dreamer> *fingerscrossed*
2485 [20:51:31] <somiaj> yea, the pinning in stretch-backports can often cause problems
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2488 [20:51:44] <somiaj> It is usally suggested to isntall the stretch version first, then upgrade it to the backports version
2489 [20:52:00] <somiaj> so first apt install nvidia-driver, then apt -t stretch-backports install nvidia-driver
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2491 [20:52:32] <dreamer> I think the stretch version had a problem compiling against my kernel (not on default stretch kernel)
2492 [20:52:48] <dreamer> so that's why I wanted to go straight to the bpo version. building now ..
2493 [20:52:57] <dreamer> DKMS: install complete
2494 [20:52:58] <dreamer> sweet
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2501 [20:54:17] <dreamer> ok, reboot
2502 [20:54:21] <adicarlo> it can be hard to keep nvidia + xorg + kernel alll in sync
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2504 [20:54:35] <adicarlo> you get tied down to old kernels sometimes
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2506 [20:55:14] <dreamer> can imagine .. problems for the future :#
2507 [20:55:16] <somiaj> stretch-backports packages should work, the problem is with pinning apt can't always figure out the best thing to do
2508 [20:55:36] <somiaj> hence it is usually best to install the stable package first, then upgrade, to ensure you only get what you have to from backports
2509 [20:57:01] <adicarlo> ok this is odd -- somewhat modern CPU, Intel i5-4670 @ 3.4GHz -- i can compile -j4 across all cores and my temp never gets above 58degC which is good -- but under some ffmpeg processing loads, I get > 90degC and thermal alerts
2510 [20:57:09] <adicarlo> is that an indication that my cpu fan is too wimpy?
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2513 [20:58:45] <bites> is that the included intel cooler or aftermarket?
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2517 [20:59:57] <bites> could be also time to replace the thermal paste. that cpu must be around 5 years old now.
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2522 [21:02:10] <jim> how would I go about finding out why pulseaudio doesn't start?
2523 [21:03:44] <jim> I know the alsa driver is working, I recently and successfully ran speaker-test
2524 [21:04:01] <somiaj> jim: what does pulseaudio --start do? Does it start it?
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2529 [21:04:28] <jim> just that? or an init.d script
2530 [21:04:33] <somiaj> just that
2531 [21:04:40] <jim> ok
2532 [21:05:09] <jim> as root?
2533 [21:05:29] <bites> no, as user.
2534 [21:05:42] <somiaj> as the user who pulse is not starting for
2535 [21:05:46] <somiaj> this starts pulseaudio
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2537 [21:06:13] <jim> no output, I get another bash prompt
2538 [21:06:54] <somiaj> it should be running now, ps fax | grep pulse -- do you see it?
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2540 [21:08:03] <jim> it seems to be running now :)
2541 [21:08:20] <jim> let me check for general audio workages
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2546 [21:09:16] <somiaj> check ~/.config/pulse/client.conf or /etc/pulse/client.conf and ensure you have ; autospawn = yes set, if so it should start automatically, note the ; just means it is commented out and the default setting
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2554 [21:14:01] <jim> somiaj, it's the default, so autospawn = yes is commented out with a ;
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2556 [21:14:41] <jim> is there a pulse <--> alsa bridge I'm supposed to installe?
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2613 [21:47:02] <snooky> hi all
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2744 [22:48:26] <velix> Interesting: E: Invalid Release signature (key id 8B48AD6246925553)
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2746 [22:49:42] <Psi-Jack> Is there, on Freenode that is, a channel for debian packaging help, or does this channel help with such matters?
2747 [22:51:33] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: #packaging on irc.oftc.net is the place for packging questions, some people here may know packaging, but overall even though #packaging is small, it is the best place to ask
2748 [22:51:51] <Psi-Jack> Yeaaah.. But they've been completely quiet.
2749 [22:52:40] <Psi-Jack> Mostly trying to figure out if debian/conffiles has to specify each and every single file, or if wildcards are supported... etc.
2750 [22:53:10] <Psi-Jack> It's looking, though, like not... dpkg-deb: error: conffile '/opt/sbbs/exec/*.js' does not appear in package
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2762 [22:59:28] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: smaller channels are that way, but at least your question won't be lost in other questions and people there may actually know the answer.
2763 [23:00:08] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: I think it needs to specifiy every file, read the new matainers guide. Also conf files in /otp/ seems strange (these should be put in /etc)
2764 [23:00:33] <rant> in my experience if you can do without an immediate answer, mailing list are often very knowledgeable and get responses in under 6hrs
2765 [23:00:40] <Psi-Jack> Everything is in /opt/sbbs/, and there's a lot of conffiles.
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2769 [23:01:05] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: usually if installing something in /opt, having a debian package doesn't provide that much.
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2771 [23:01:42] <Psi-Jack> Ahh, but it does in this case. Not having to compile for updates all the time, not having to include the compiler and build-essential on the host, etc.
2772 [23:02:05] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: of course you aren't trying to get your packages into debian, so you can do what you want, I'm just saying, for a debian package, it is strange to have a conffile outside of /etc. Also note conffiles are just dealt with differently, depending on your package (And if you want users to actually edit the conffiles), you can just install them as normal files and not conf files.
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2775 [23:02:37] <somiaj> Psi-Jack: compile once, package in a .tar.gz file, extract it to /opt -- as in the debian dependency chain, package may not provide you that much benifit for packages in /otp.
2776 [23:02:48] <Psi-Jack> I want them to not be replaced if they've been changed.
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2779 [23:03:03] <somiaj> in that case read the docs, the matainers guide should state what you need
2780 [23:03:14] <velix> Is debian SID broken somehow? W: Failure while installing base packages.
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2782 [23:03:19] <somiaj> replaced-url
2783 [23:03:50] <rant> velix: heh, maybe you were looking for ##standup? cause thats funny
2784 [23:04:12] <somiaj> velix: debian sid is usually broken somehow, that is the nature of sid, now if the breakage affects you, we'll two thigns, first 1) you should be asking sid questions in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, and second you should probably install a minimial stable, then upgrade to testing, the upgrade to sid (this is the old standard recommended way of installing sid)
2785 [23:04:18] <velix> rant: I'm half-turk... that's even more funny.
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2787 [23:04:39] <velix> somiaj: yeah, I know. I just never had problems chrooting sid ;)
2788 [23:04:54] <rant> could be worse, you could be amazon mechanical turk :P
2789 [23:05:07] <velix> rant: sometimes I feel like this :(
2790 [23:05:24] <somiaj> velix: then you should have provided that info, 'i am trying to debootstrap sid and I get this error', not is sid broken.
2791 [23:05:33] <somiaj> velix: and you should go ask in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
2792 [23:05:51] <somiaj> also W is a warning, maybe the chroot is somewhat functional.
2793 [23:05:55] <velix> somiaj: okay okay :)
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2796 [23:06:43] <rant> yes a warning usually would ony occur in this context if perhaps some config step failed.. cause actual broken packages is an error that causes it to stop
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2798 [23:07:05] <rant> usually before anything is fetched or unpacked
2799 [23:07:06] <velix> Okay, I'll retry and in case of an error, I'll visit #debian-next on ofnet
2800 [23:07:31] <velix> it worked with stable, so it really might be a sid problem ;)
2801 [23:07:45] <rant> provide full output in a pastebin when you do that... cause you probably didnt get the most relevant part of the output
2802 [23:08:21] <velix> yeah, I'll do later. I'm just working with the stable one right now.
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