People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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7 [00:04:43] <fassl> maybe something like mkdir /spotifyroot; mount --rbind / /spotifyroot; umount /spotifyroot/tmp; chroot /spotifyroot /path/to/spotify can work
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17 [00:09:21] <tuxmartin_> not working: hexdump -ve '1/1 "%.2X"' /usr/share/spotify/spotify | sed "s/\/tmp/\/tmp\/spotify/g" | xxd -r -p > /usr/share/spotify/spotify.patched
18 [00:10:33] <fassl> ouch :D change it to /smp or something, don't exceed the length
19 [00:12:41] <tuxmartin_> /smp too not working :-(
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21 [00:13:32] <jhutchins> tuxmartin_: Why are you trying to do this?
22 [00:14:14] <Unit193> jhutchins: Sorry to jump on you, but anything of interest about alpine?
23 [00:14:43] <tuxmartin_> jhutchins: I'm using /tmp for everyday work. If I have hundred of spotify image files in /tmp it is very confused.
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29 [00:24:04] <johnnyfive> Is there a 'mock' (rpm builder) for .deb packages that will build for various targets?
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49 [00:35:04] <qwsazxcderfv1234> how do i make debian more posix compliant
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52 [00:36:54] <annadane> ask it nicely?
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54 [00:37:18] <petemc> hobble it
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58 [00:41:25] <rant> does anyone know how to remap certain keycodes on a specific evdev or xkb? I have this script which should do what I want, remap keys on a running X server: replaced-url
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60 [00:41:30] <rant> /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/remote.conf: replaced-url
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63 [00:41:36] <rant> the udev rule is the only thing that seems to be working
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66 [00:42:01] <alpine> hello
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73 [00:44:25] <rant> this remote is both a keyboard and mouse and I'm trying to among the buttons I want to remap are the mouse buttons which have keycodes in showkey and should be able to be remapped via evdev method idk about xkb
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146 [01:38:18] <srruby> I'm using Debian 9 and gnome-terminal doesn't work. How can that be???
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148 [01:39:16] <jfwneu> any particular reason tomcat 9 (declared stable in mid-january) hasn't made it into the unstable repository? no demand? labor shortage?
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152 [01:41:45] <annadane> srruby, "doesn't work" means what?
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154 [01:42:05] <annadane> doesn't launch?
155 [01:42:18] <annadane> if you try launching it from another terminal, what does it say/
156 [01:42:20] <annadane> ?
157 [01:42:39] <rant> mean's its a bum, sits around the house all day, won't get a job or do the dishes.. duh
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166 [01:47:09] <srruby> annadane Error constructing proxy for org.gnome.Terminal:/org/gnome/Terminal/Factory0: Error calling StartServiceByName for org.gnome.Terminal: Timeout was reached
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170 [01:49:05] <michael2> hmm, wonder why aptitude tells me "linux-image-amd64" is manually installed? I know - for sure - I didn't instaall it
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173 [01:49:28] <annadane> some programs are marked as manual
174 [01:49:32] <annadane> i forget what the criteria is
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178 [01:49:59] <michael2> why? i thought it would be part of a meta package like "debian" basic or something?
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182 [01:50:42] <michael2> Is it so that apt will "release it from the bondage" of dependencies - should you choose to apt remove it?
183 [01:50:57] <annadane> that's probably the rationale for it
184 [01:51:08] <annadane> i don't know for sure
185 [01:51:09] <somiaj> the base system all gets marked as manual
186 [01:51:16] <michael2> ah
187 [01:51:27] <somiaj> it is only depends pulled ina fter the base system that get marked as auto
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190 [01:53:08] <michael2> sorry, I didn't make out that last comment
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194 [01:54:32] <michael2> so, the base system starts out as a meta package? in the installer, then later the metapakage is removed and all remaining dependencies gets marked "manual"
195 [01:54:42] <michael2> ?
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198 [01:57:02] <somiaj> michael2: the base system is unpacked from the installer, I don't think it is 'installed' in the usual sences of packages, maybe looking at debootstrap for details on how the intial system is put in place.
199 [01:57:37] <somiaj> so it really doesn't follow the standard package/dependency chain, it is a set of packages that get coppied onto the system during the install.
200 [01:58:12] <annadane> that's a much better answer and i'm a moron
201 [01:58:16] <michael2> but those packages must be "registered" into the dpkg system somehow still
202 [01:58:33] <somiaj> well it is just a text file, that file can be created and put on the system.
203 [01:58:35] <michael2> annadane != moron
204 [01:59:48] <michael2> yeah, doing that would definitely speed up the install process :)
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207 [02:01:11] <michael2> I'm assuming the text file you are referring to is: /var/lib/dpkg/status?
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209 [02:02:09] <kot> michael2, to answer your other question, removal of a metapackage leaves its dependencies in place and doesn't mark them manual. that's why everything still 1works great until the day you do an apt autoremove.
210 [02:02:36] <somiaj> though michael2 seems to use aptitude, which removes auto install packages by default
211 [02:02:50] <somiaj> that extra step is only for apt/apt-get
212 [02:03:13] <michael2> kot: doesn't it depend which program you use to remove? e.g. apt-get leaves in place, but I though apt and aptitiude will automatically remove orphaned packages
213 [02:03:16] <michael2> ?
214 [02:03:17] <kot> ouch
215 [02:03:33] <somiaj> michael2: only aptitude, apt works very similar to apt-get in terms of logic (it should basically be the same)
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217 [02:04:00] <TakWah> replaced-url
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219 [02:04:20] <annadane> this is off topic but i found a neat factoid i didn't know existed
220 [02:04:23] <annadane> !things to backup
221 [02:04:23] <dpkg> Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/replaced-url
222 [02:04:25] <somiaj> TakWah: cat /etc/resolv.conf
223 [02:04:29] <annadane> for those looking for that information
224 [02:04:32] <TakWah> somiaj: thank you
225 [02:04:59] <somiaj> michael2: replaced-url
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227 [02:06:08] <TakWah> somiaj: that was it, thanks, so if resolv.conf takes precedence over /etc/network/interfaces dns-nameservers, why should I bother to add them to /etc/network/interfaces, what's it's purpose?
228 [02:06:12] <somiaj> michael2: all of those get installed as manual and in most cases you don't want to remove them. I'm unsure on the exact details, but many are unpackged and put on the system to set up dpkg, and the basic tools, so installing that like other packages won't work, because there is no dpkg at the time.
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230 [02:06:30] <somiaj> TakWah: you need to install resolvconf or openresolv to use that feature.
231 [02:06:55] <somiaj> TakWah: by default that does nothing, and either the dhclient sets /etc/resolv.conf or you can manually edit that file.
232 [02:06:58] <pingfloyd> TakWah: /etc/resolv.conf has a way of changing since many programs, such as nm, overwrite it.
233 [02:07:19] <somiaj> pingfloyd: in this case, the dns-nameservers in /etc/interfaces requires an additional package to actually do anything.
234 [02:07:28] <TakWah> somiaj: okay, that explains it, thank you
235 [02:07:29] <somiaj> and with that package installed, things will not overwrite /etc/resolv.conf
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237 [02:07:58] <somiaj> arg /etc/network/interfaces
238 [02:08:14] <pingfloyd> in that case it's resolvconf that writes it
239 [02:08:46] <somiaj> yup, well manages it (/etc/resolv.conf gets turned into a link)
240 [02:09:22] <pingfloyd> the main thing to take away is that /etc/resolv.conf can be changed by many programs available. So either you don't use or have those programs installed and edit it manually, or you set you nameservers in those programs.
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242 [02:10:07] <TakWah> I understand
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245 [02:11:09] <TakWah> thank you both, I didn't know and wondered, to me it seemed like it came from nowhere, but that makes sense now. I edit the file and see if it gets overwritten or not.
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252 [02:13:05] <kot> yeh, if you use dhcp you can just append to /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf:
253 [02:13:05] <kot> supersede domain-name-servers x.x.x.x, x.x.x.x;
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256 [02:14:53] <TakWah> it's working now, ;)
257 [02:14:56] <pingfloyd> TakWah: usually it takes running into situations like this to become aware of that little caveat
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263 [02:16:27] <pingfloyd> TakWah: what I usually do is let network-mangler handle it if on a laptop that will be connected to multiple networks and roaming around etc. Otherwise, I usually just manually edit /etc/resolv.conf and forego any sort of "manager" program for it.
264 [02:17:19] <TakWah> kot: I try to avoid dhcp at all costs, my NIC's get identity crisises whatever the plural is ;)
265 [02:17:43] <TakWah> nontheless good to know where the dhcp conf is, as sometimes I need it despite not liking it.
266 [02:18:11] <mutante> crisii
267 [02:18:15] <pingfloyd> I prefer dhcp
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269 [02:18:55] <TakWah> pingfloyd: That's what I thought I was doing, manually editing stuff, but just the 'wrong' stuff, in the wrong place.
270 [02:18:57] <pingfloyd> let the computer do what it was made for. Keeping track of what ips are available and which are used.
271 [02:19:21] <rpifan> pingfloyd, omg
272 [02:19:22] <rpifan> DSOM
273 [02:19:28] <pingfloyd> TakWah: you can override dhclient if you want to manually assign nameserver too
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275 [02:19:46] <TakWah> i like that
276 [02:20:37] <TakWah> more I like the feature where you can assign the same mac the same ip all the time, like reserved ip adresses for certain macs, I use that for wifi clients that don't support static ip adresses for whatever reason.
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279 [02:20:58] <pingfloyd> for example, you can put in /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf interface "eth0" { prepend domain-name-servers x.x.x.x; }
280 [02:21:25] <pingfloyd> that would be if you were using dhclient
281 [02:22:33] <pingfloyd> rpifan: great album
282 [02:22:49] <rpifan> ive seen roger waters live twice now
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284 [02:23:24] <pingfloyd> cool
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288 [02:24:52] <kot> with resolvconf installed i can edit resolv.conf directly (and it stays put), or do i have to use /etc/network/interfaces?
289 [02:24:55] <rpifan> i saw him a few years ago
290 [02:24:56] <rpifan> with the wall
291 [02:24:59] <rpifan> and last year
292 [02:25:00] <rpifan> with
293 [02:25:01] <rpifan> his new tour
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302 [02:34:21] <hmuller> Hello! On systemd unit files... I have a usb automount that successfully mounts a usb storage device as it is inserted, but it mounts it in /run/media/root/..., what is necessary to run it as the logged in user?
303 [02:34:59] <hmuller> usb automount unit file*
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306 [02:37:55] <nekOwOseam> UwU hewwo guys
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333 [02:57:51] <TakWah> my network NIC discovery program shows a field usertext, for most hosts it's their hostname but not for all, which configfile is responsible for setting this text?
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391 [03:40:43] <SynfulAck> Did usermod -aG netdev `username` to allow route commands. Did i miss something?
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395 [03:41:35] <SynfulAck> Maybe its just easier to edit sudoers file then -aG a user to sudo for more privileged?
396 [03:41:50] <SynfulAck> than* -aG
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401 [03:45:32] <somiaj> I'm not sure if adding to that group allows one to run route as a normal user. Also on debian 'adduser username groupname' is a quick way to add a user to a group.
402 [03:45:40] <somiaj> did you logout/login after you added yourself to that group?
403 [03:46:14] <somiaj> seems all that group does is "netdev: Members of this group can manage network interfaces through the network manager and wicd."
404 [03:46:35] <SynfulAck> somiaj, haha yeah unfortunately several reboots. I'm assuming this comes down to an environment variable thing cause i have to specify /sbin/route ? dunno why.
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406 [03:47:57] <somiaj> SynfulAck: /sbin is not in a users $PATH by default, as most commands in there cannot be run by the user.
407 [03:48:34] <ChmEarl> johnnyfive, try pbuilder in stretch for mock like features
408 [03:48:51] <SynfulAck> somiaj, is there some option i missed during install to approve my new user as admin?
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413 [03:49:38] <somiaj> SynfulAck: in debian (and linux in general) root is the admin, and outside of sudo (well now packagekit), the root account should be used for admin.
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415 [03:49:58] <somiaj> SynfulAck: to give your users full sudo privlages, 1) apt install sudo, 2) adduser username sudo, 3) logout/backin
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417 [03:50:51] <somiaj> SynfulAck: sudo is the common way to share admin tasks between multiple users, usually things like packagekit, groups, setuid binaries, are for very specific purposes, not general admin.
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419 [03:51:17] <SynfulAck> somiaj, i did some of that, im just concerned over the part that says commands are not found. So debian wants me to use root to use these commands?
420 [03:52:21] <somiaj> SynfulAck: it isn't perfect, there are things in /sbin and /usr/sbin a user maybe able to use, but in general stuff there users won't have premisions to do much with, so it isn't common to have it in the $PATH. You can put them in your $PATH if you want. If you use sudo, /sbin and /usr/sbin will be included in the $PATH used
421 [03:52:55] <somiaj> you should read up on the FHS, it will explain the differnce between /bin and /sbin
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427 [03:59:01] <hmuller> I successfully created a working USB automount system. Uses udev, systemd, and udisks2 which are all available on most standard installs. Mounts the drive in /media/$USER/xxx --> /run/media/$USER/xxx
428 [03:59:12] <hmuller> took me all day to figure it out
429 [03:59:31] <annadane> !win hmuller
430 [03:59:31] <dpkg> Congratulations, hmuller! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120!
431 [03:59:46] <hmuller> lol thanks
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433 [04:00:15] <hmuller> i'm really looking for a columbia records subscription though :)
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439 [04:06:20] <rpifan> so this image replaced-url
440 [04:06:23] <rpifan> shows what is happening
441 [04:06:25] <rpifan> it gets there
442 [04:06:31] <rpifan> and then sits there for severla minutes
443 [04:06:33] <rpifan> before x loads
444 [04:06:50] <michael2> somiaj: If you are interested, I think I might have found the file which the installer uses take the programs which were simply unpacked into their target directories. and register them in to dpkg. /var/log/installer/status.
445 [04:07:47] <michael2> And according the the link you gave eariler, the installer logs the base packages install activities in to tty4
446 [04:08:44] <somiaj> my guess is it is some relation to debootstrap
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451 [04:11:07] <hmuller> If anyone is interested in simple USB storage unmounting and ejecting: replaced-url
452 [04:11:26] <hmuller> my job here is done, cheers!
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457 [04:12:54] <annadane> i was going to add that as a factoid but it has an expiry date, i could make it expire "never" but now not sure if such a thing warrants a factoid
458 [04:13:07] <annadane> i could probably submit it to that debianhelper site, or whatever it's called
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460 [04:15:31] <annadane> also if i add it as a factoid i can't be sure if it's veracity
461 [04:15:40] <annadane> otherwise it would be a good idea
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463 [04:15:47] <annadane> s/if/of
464 [04:15:54] <annadane> s/it's/its
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469 [04:19:54] <annadane> is there a mailing list for bug fixes of packages in stable (not security fixes)?
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471 [04:21:17] <somiaj> in what sense, the bts tracks bugs, including those that affect stable.
472 [04:21:17] <hmuller> I forgot one important piece, here is the full usb automount solution: replaced-url
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475 [04:22:23] <annadane> well, in the sense that one gets notifications on security updates and bug fixes in stable don't happen that often so i thought there might be a list for such a thing
476 [04:22:27] <hmuller> the polkit rule is needed to allow users of wheel group, to mount using udisksctl without entering password
477 [04:22:42] <annadane> i guess i'll just go ahead and add that anyway
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479 [04:23:41] <annadane> what to call the factoid, i guess usbunmounteject or something
480 [04:23:50] <somiaj> annadane: outside of security annoucments, you just have to check the changelogs of the packages that come in during point releases.
481 [04:23:58] <annadane> 'kay
482 [04:25:02] <somiaj> debian-annouse will inform you of point releases
483 [04:25:32] <annadane> dpkg, usbunmountandeject is <reply> For a script a user wrote on USB unmount and ejecting see replaced-url
484 [04:25:33] <dpkg> okay, annadane
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486 [04:26:28] <somiaj> annadane: there is a debian-stable-announce it may mention some things that have been fixed
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488 [04:27:39] <SynfulAck> If using network-manager can i still manipulate the /etc/network/interfaces file? Like adding post-up entries?
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491 [04:29:03] <SynfulAck> ohh...just noticed it seems to only contain the loopback now
492 [04:29:27] <somiaj> SynfulAck: they are not compadable
493 [04:29:49] <somiaj> network-manager will ignore things in the interface file, network-manager has its own hooks configuration you can use though.
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529 [05:00:47] <michael2> anyone know how to relabel a fat filesystem? I tried `sudo fatlabel /dev/sdb2 mylabel. but fatlabel returned: "logical sector size is zero"
530 [05:01:08] <annadane> try calling it chubby, i hear it's the more politically correct term
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533 [05:02:24] <somiaj> michael2: dmesg | grep sdb, or maybe use fdisk to show the partition table.
534 [05:02:40] <somiaj> michael2: just checking you were trying the right file system.
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536 [05:03:36] <michael2> I think fdisk is too low level - I dont think it could understand whats in the partitions themselves?
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539 [05:04:09] <somiaj> just checking the file partition table, but I found one bug report that gets taht error if the file system is really ntfs
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541 [05:04:41] <somiaj> michael2: is that partition mounted, what is the output of mount if so?
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544 [05:05:41] <michael2> do I need to mount the partition to re-label it? thats something I'm not sure about
545 [05:05:49] * karlpinc likes 'sfdisk -l' for partition table listings
546 [05:05:57] <karlpinc> michael2: No.
547 [05:06:10] <somiaj> michael2: you shouldn't but sometimes just for sanity it is worth double checking things
548 [05:06:20] <somiaj> so some actual output is just helpful, even if it just confirms that you are doing everything right.
549 [05:06:43] <somiaj> i.e. check what the sdb2 parittion actually is and double check what file system is actually on it.
550 [05:07:14] <karlpinc> 'file -s /dev/sdN' is good in that regard as well.
551 [05:07:23] <michael2> somiaj: what do you want the output of? I can tell you its not mounted - but I can run "mount" if necessary
552 [05:07:52] <michael2> trying `sfdisk -l' now....
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556 [05:08:57] <michael2> sfdisk -l seems to give similar output to fdisk -l, a bit extra info, but no label info.
557 [05:09:13] <somiaj> well I want the actual partition and file system info
558 [05:09:26] <karlpinc> michael2: Try: file -s /dev/sdb2
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560 [05:09:31] <michael2> the way I have been currently checking the label is with:
561 [05:09:33] <michael2> lsblk -o MODEL,type,NAME,SIZE,MOUNTPOINT,FSTYPE,LABEL
562 [05:09:34] <somiaj> actually this command would be best, try 'blkid -o list' and share that output
563 [05:09:56] <karlpinc> somiaj: Ah blkid. I'd forgotten. That is best.
564 [05:10:32] <michael2> yes, file -s /dev/sdb2 gives the label name
565 [05:10:35] <somiaj> again it would be nice if you shared the output you are getting, something is not allowing you to set the label, so sharing actual output from these commands at paste.debian.net is helpful, we dont' know your system, so it is nice to double check.
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567 [05:11:37] <michael2> somiaj: replaced-url
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569 [05:12:12] <somiaj> that is an ext4 file system, of course trying to set the label name with fatlabel isn't going to work
570 [05:12:40] <michael2> ah, I feel silly...
571 [05:12:42] <somiaj> at least that output seems to say it is
572 [05:13:04] <somiaj> see it is nice to just share the output and let someone double check things, sometimes small things get overlooked
573 [05:14:33] <michael2> yeah, bit embarassing I overlooked that!
574 [05:14:51] <michael2> thanks for pointing it out :)
575 [05:18:48] <michael2> e2label /dev/sdb2 my_label - works as expected :)
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594 [05:30:10] <rpifan> hey so gnome
595 [05:30:16] <rpifan> keeps kicking me out of my gnome session
596 [05:30:20] <rpifan> and back into the terminal
597 [05:30:22] <rpifan> and then back into x
598 [05:30:24] <rpifan> without any erors
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600 [05:31:35] <annadane> .xsession-errors say anything interesting?
601 [05:31:40] <annadane> how long has this been happening?
602 [05:33:58] <rpifan> idk a week or so, did u see the image i pointed of where X stalls on boot
603 [05:34:31] <annadane> oh, that
604 [05:34:47] <annadane> replaced-url
605 [05:34:54] <rpifan> also
606 [05:34:57] <rpifan> no xsession errors file
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608 [05:36:51] <somiaj> what version of debian is this?
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610 [05:38:19] <rpifan> Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (buster)
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612 [05:38:34] <somiaj> #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is a good place to discuss bugs with buster
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614 [05:39:02] <rpifan> i think i fucked up the install somehow tho
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617 [05:39:40] <annadane> what makes you say that specifically, could be a clue to the problem, but yeah, #debian-next is probably better
618 [05:39:41] <somiaj> well for dubgging this you sould join the appropriate channel. simple things to test, try to run gnome as a clean/new user and make sure it isn't a user config issue.
619 [05:39:47] <annadane> ^
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621 [05:40:08] * annadane waits for it...
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623 [05:40:51] <rpifan> true
624 [05:40:56] <rpifan> so unrelated question
625 [05:41:01] <rpifan> i deleted some files on my backup disk
626 [05:41:06] <rpifan> i tried photorec
627 [05:41:07] <rpifan> and it does work
628 [05:41:40] <annadane> again that'd be better off in #debian-next, if it was done on the same machine as is buster
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631 [05:42:46] <rpifan> well the backup drive is an external usb, photorec found files but it only found the thumbnails. So i know the files are there but idk how to pick them more specifically if anything
632 [05:42:48] <annadane> though you did say backup disk
633 [05:42:52] <annadane> yeah, okay
634 [05:43:08] <annadane> if photorec is on buster though as the "host" machine i'd still ask in the proper channel
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639 [05:44:31] <rpifan> hm
640 [05:44:42] <rpifan> apparently u can use pure terminal commands to find the images
641 [05:44:55] <rpifan> i know where thye wer on the old drive at least wihtin the linux structure
642 [05:45:34] <annadane> i just noticed you said "does work" and not "doesn't work"
643 [05:45:40] <annadane> i should probably not do tech support this late
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648 [05:46:24] <rpifan> lol
649 [05:46:34] <rpifan> yea its just an issue of specifying the full size image
650 [05:46:37] <rpifan> but u cant with photorec it seems
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675 [06:06:52] <michael2> is anyone familiar with manually creating boot USB's? I've gotten to this point here:
676 [06:06:54] <michael2> replaced-url
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678 [06:07:39] <michael2> but Im not sure how to get all the installer files into the boot partition I've created on the USB
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680 [06:08:27] <michael2> the docs say: "If you used an hd-media image, you should now copy the ISO file of a Debian ISO image[4] onto the stick."
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682 [06:10:41] <somiaj> mount the iso with a loop back device, and cp, or rsync
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684 [06:11:04] <somiaj> oh wait, sorry, it says copy the ISO, so just put the iso file on the stick
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686 [06:11:35] <michael2> ah, so Im supposed to copy the _contents_ of the iso file I downloaded (debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso) and not the file itself?
687 [06:11:46] <somiaj> no, I was thinking of another method, the guide says ISO, so copy that
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690 [06:12:51] <michael2> oh, I'll do that, if it fails its easy enough to delete a single file and retry
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696 [06:14:44] <michael2> I dont get how the kernel or syslinux will know it should mount the debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso onto a loopback, then run the installer contained within though?
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699 [06:16:30] <somiaj> syslinux should be able to bood the hd-media image as if it were and hd I would assume, but I've never tried that method
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704 [06:18:02] <michael2> is the "hd-media" image the same thing as the "debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso" image ?
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707 [06:22:33] <somiaj> pay attention to which directory you got the image from
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713 [06:26:14] <michael2> I got the image from here:
714 [06:26:20] <michael2> replaced-url
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717 [06:27:10] <michael2> it doesn't say anywhere whether its a "hd-media" image...
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730 [06:36:05] <somiaj> michael2: because that is an iso-cd image
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732 [06:37:23] <somiaj> hmm, they use to better say which were the hd-media images, wonder if they stopped producing them
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738 [06:39:57] <somiaj> the iso are the hybrid images, they use to have a seperate hd-media image, I'm unsure if the current hybrid iso would work for that, but I'm not finding the hd-media images
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741 [06:41:00] <bangka> hi all
742 [06:41:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1577
743 [06:41:05] <bangka> Sorry for my eng. Anybody knows DNS server that can change static routes without restarting? i mean something like dnsmasq address=/replaced-url
744 [06:41:26] <michael2> yeah, I wondered that - i.e. hd-media is for booting into the installer - when the installler is on an actual hard disk ,as opposed to some removeable media
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746 [06:42:08] <somiaj> michael2: I think I figured it out, replaced-url
747 [06:42:45] <somiaj> michael2: they give you the vmlinuz and initrd.gz files, if you use those, then just copy the ISO to the file (The iso is the standard hybrid one) -- I got confused thinking the iso was hd-image, not the kernel iamge.
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750 [06:43:27] <somiaj> I'm just recalling a long time ago, they use to have separate hd-image full installers, not just the kernel
751 [06:45:39] <michael2> nice find on the hd-media files :) so - if its not a full installer - is the hd-media installer a netinstaller (which is fine)
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755 [06:47:52] <somiaj> no
756 [06:48:12] <somiaj> the hd-media images is just the kernel, basic installer, you still need to copy over an ISO,
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758 [06:48:53] <somiaj> there is an important comma there, so the hd-media iamge are your vmlinuz and initrd.gz file you coppied eariler in the process
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761 [06:50:36] <michael2> which file is the basic installer? all I see in that directory is: kernel, ramdisk, and bootimg.gz?
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763 [06:51:08] <somiaj> follow the instructions, they say after you install syslinux on the drive, to copy over the two files I mentioned, then the .iso image
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765 [06:51:22] <somiaj> oh there is a create a syslinux.cfg step in there too.
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768 [06:51:38] <michael2> oh, the hd-media image is the "boot.img.gz" ?
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774 [06:53:46] <somiaj> I think all images in that directory are the hd-media images
775 [06:54:04] <somiaj> no where in that guide does it say use boot.img.gz
776 [06:54:27] <somiaj> oh wait, I guess it is there, that is the all in one, sorry I was looking at 4.3.3, not 4.3.2
777 [06:54:34] <somiaj> so yea, I guess that is an all in one image
778 [06:55:32] <michael2> so, boot.img.gz is the all in one image?
779 [06:56:30] <michael2> the install guide, does say (right at the very bottom of the page) "You can use either a netinst or a full CD image"
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783 [06:57:06] <michael2> Oh, well. Im giving up - for now. I'll come back to it later. thanks for the help!
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789 [06:59:25] <somiaj> michael2: so grab a netinstall .iso or a full cd or dvd .iso
790 [07:00:00] <somiaj> the guide tells you waht boot.img.gz is, it also says that if you use that method, you'll be capped at 1gb, so you won't be able to use a dvd image.
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795 [07:00:40] <nekOwOseam> wut
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798 [07:01:05] <nekOwOseam> How would I go about setting the default shell to fish? I've never messed around with shells before
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800 [07:01:39] <somiaj> man chsh
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820 [07:11:13] <kingsley> nekOwOseam: I don't know how to configure an entire system to use a certain shell, like fish, by default. But, I believe a shell can be made to be the default for individual users by editing /etc/passwd. I hope that helps. Maybe searching Google's indices would help more.
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829 [07:20:19] <somiaj> kingsley: man chsh
830 [07:20:47] <somiaj> that answer was meant to give the command the user needed
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851 [07:40:13] <nekOwOseam> Fish doesn't create a directory in /bin/, only in /usr/bin. Is this normal behavior or is it a bug?
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854 [07:44:01] <somiaj> fish shouldn't be creating a directory in either of those places. Do you mean fish is located in /usr/bin?
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856 [07:44:29] <nekOwOseam> Fish is a shell
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858 [07:44:43] <nekOwOseam> Shells are located in /bin/
859 [07:44:52] <somiaj> correct, and shells should not be creating directories in /usr/bin or /bin
860 [07:45:07] <nekOwOseam> Sorry, not directories
861 [07:45:27] <nekOwOseam> Executable?
862 [07:45:37] <somiaj> or binary, that is what 'bin' stands for
863 [07:45:48] <nekOwOseam> yeah...I'm out of it tonight
864 [07:45:53] <nekOwOseam> anyways...
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868 [07:47:48] <somiaj> Trying to find why they don't put fish in /bin. For the most part by the time the user is loggin into this shell, eveyrthing should be mounted, so it shoudln't be an issue. But can't find any bug report or statement why this is the case
869 [07:48:13] <deskdown> So I turned on my laptop and this is the output... replaced-url
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871 [07:48:32] <deskdown> Somebody help me
872 [07:48:47] <nekOwOseam> "Zoinks! You've taken a wrong turn."
873 [07:48:49] <somiaj> your link doens't owrk
874 [07:49:03] <nekOwOseam> If your computer output that then you have a serious mess on your hands
875 [07:49:47] <deskdown> somiaj it works for me xD
876 [07:49:56] <deskdown> Ok wait a second
877 [07:49:59] <somiaj> then must be private or something, it isn't working here
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881 [07:52:31] <deskdown> replaced-url
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884 [07:54:21] <somiaj> looks like a problem with your file system, you may need to boot off a live image and run fsck
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886 [07:55:08] <deskdown> Ok let me try
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892 [07:57:10] <deskdown> somiaj ok i'm in.. let me open hexchat
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894 [07:57:13] <Haohmaru> ,v libreoffice
895 [07:57:14] <judd> Package: libreoffice on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u6; wheezy-security: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u11; wheezy-backports: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7~bpo70+1; jessie: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9; jessie-proposed-updates: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; jessie-security: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; stretch: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u3; jessie-backports: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4; stretch-
896 [07:57:15] <judd> security: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1:6.0.4~rc1-4~bpo9+2; buster: 1:6.0.4~rc1-4; sid: 1:6.0.4-1; experimental: 1:6.1.0~beta1~git20180507-1
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900 [07:57:40] <somiaj> Haohmaru: /msg judd v libreoffice
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902 [07:58:08] <deskdown> somiaj, here i am
903 [07:58:24] <Haohmaru> somiaj doesn't that give the same info?
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909 [07:59:58] <somiaj> Haohmaru: but it doens't spam the channel for something that is not part of a current support question.
910 [08:00:36] <Haohmaru> oh, sorry
911 [08:01:06] <Haohmaru> i was next going to ask how to install that onto my debian stretch, but i'm "googling" first
912 [08:01:27] <somiaj> Haohmaru: apt install libreoffice
913 [08:01:29] <Haohmaru> i need version 5.4.7 or newer, cuz previous versions have a severe bug
914 [08:01:49] <somiaj> !tell Haohmaru about stretch backports
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920 [08:03:09] * porcodio e porcamadonna
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923 [08:04:44] <jelly> porcodio: gratuitous swearing in _any_ language is frowned upon; best keep your lines in here to tech support questions or answers
924 [08:05:34] <porcodio> No
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926 [08:05:56] <deskdown> somiaj, what should i do with my init problem
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934 [08:09:17] <Haohmaru> hm, i can't install this thing from backports via synaptic?
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937 [08:10:46] <Haohmaru> is it generally a bad idea to install a newer version of something from this backports thing?
938 [08:11:00] <somiaj> sure, use synaptic, you still have to enable the repo in your sources.list
939 [08:11:10] <somiaj> unsure the details on how to use synaptic for this, as I don't use that tool
940 [08:11:27] <Haohmaru> i added the repository in synaptic already
941 [08:11:30] <somiaj> read the factoid the bot sent you, it clearly states that stretch-backports are newer packages built for stretch.
942 [08:11:49] <Haohmaru> yeah i read it, but i don't understand all of it
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952 [08:17:12] <jelly> Haohmaru: it's generally the best source to get newer stuff from if you absolutely need newer stuff than what's in your installed release
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955 [08:18:11] <jelly> ,v dehydrated
956 [08:18:12] <judd> Package: dehydrated on amd64 -- stretch: 0.3.1-3+deb9u1; jessie-backports: 0.3.1-3+deb9u2~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates: 0.3.1-3+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 0.6.2-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.6.2-1; sid: 0.6.2-1
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969 [08:24:02] <Haohmaru> so synaptic seems to not show those packages.. i ran apt-get -t .. and it prints a wall of text, saying "The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: .." amongst which i even see linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64, then at the end it says "32 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 0 to remove, 91 not upgraded. ... 72.2MB of additional disk space.. do you want to continue?"
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979 [08:25:35] <Haohmaru> does that sound "okay" ? shall i hit "Y"?
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983 [08:26:10] <testuser> Hi all, I have a weird problem with an older debian machine here. I am running testing and the latest kernel installed is linux-image-4.16.0-1-686 which is pretty old. Could kernel updates be blocked somehow? I already checked apt-mark if there's something on hold but seems ok for me. Any idea what could be the problem here?
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993 [08:28:56] * Haohmaru pressed Y
994 [08:28:59] <Haohmaru> :/
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1000 [08:33:09] <Haohmaru> btw, i forgot to mention i have the "normal" version of libreoffice already installed, so would the new one (from backports) replace it?
1001 [08:34:33] <michael2> Haohmaru: If you dont want those packages , yeah hit 'y" to remove.
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1005 [08:35:15] <michael2> to find out try: `apt-cache policy libreoffice'
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1007 [08:35:31] <michael2> or whatever the libreoffice packagename is
1008 [08:35:38] <Haohmaru> i don't know whether i need them or not, they are so many and most of them are with weird names
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1011 [08:36:05] <michael2> then you dont need them
1012 [08:37:01] <Haohmaru> >:)
1013 [08:37:38] <michael2> they are orphaned packages, if you used aptitude it would have just removed them and not asked you - which is usuallywhat you want - occassionally you need something a bit more customized
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1016 [08:38:07] <Haohmaru> michael2 i normally use synaptic
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1019 [08:38:43] <michael2> does synaptic auto-remove orphaned packages?
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1031 [08:43:41] <Haohmaru> crap, while installing another package from backports, i ran out of space /o\
1032 [08:44:04] <Haohmaru> i freed some now, do i repeat the apt-get -t command?
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1056 [08:52:58] <boris_t> anyone using kesex tools to wipe memory on shutdown with memtest86?
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1061 [08:54:25] <Haohmaru> the only thing i'm finding via google is from the askubuntu website, suggesting to try "apt-get install -f" and then there's no reply
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1078 [09:04:28] <Haohmaru> michael2 in synaptic there's a "Section" in it called "Installed (auto removable)", and i think it's those same packages.. but i think i see some which need, no idea why they are there
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1082 [09:05:55] <michael2> Haohmaru: what are you trying to do?
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1084 [09:06:21] <Haohmaru> that was just replying to your previous question
1085 [09:06:46] <michael2> oh ok
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1087 [09:07:22] <Haohmaru> i ran out of space while installing another package with apt-get -t, but i did some stuff according to some instructions on stackexchange.. apt-get clean, apt --fix-broken install
1088 [09:07:49] <Haohmaru> now there's some free space, i'll retry installing the package
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1092 [09:08:41] <Haohmaru> in "autoremove" i see for example "xxkb" and i think this is the little program for turning ON numlock.. why is it in that list?
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1239 [10:46:48] <user03> hi, where should i put my bind zone files?
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1241 [10:50:07] <ikanobori> Isn't /var/lib/bind the default location for those on Debians?
1242 [10:51:16] <user03> ikanobori, yes maybe thank you
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1244 [10:51:27] <Unit193> /usr/share/doc/bind9/README.Debian.gz and the apparmor file are interesting reads on it.
1245 [10:52:06] <user03> thanks Unit193
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1248 [10:52:59] <jelly> user03: manually added? /etc/bind is okay
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1271 [11:08:10] <stevendale> Hey ^^
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1281 [11:14:44] <thnee> What ever happened to start-stop-daemon?
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1290 [11:23:54] <jelly> thnee: it's still there in debian 9?
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1292 [11:24:11] <jelly> which release are you using
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1333 [11:43:50] <afidegnum> 3
1334 [11:44:16] <afidegnum> hello, how do I check the list of available RAID disks?
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1343 [11:49:23] <LTCD> Hey I'm at login screen, how can I open command line without logging in?
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1345 [11:50:14] <iTeV> you cant
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1347 [11:50:49] <p0g0> That would be the point of logging in...
1348 [11:50:57] <iTeV> ^
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1352 [11:51:52] <iTeV> I have a feeling that a) He lost his password b) He is trying to gain access on a machine that he is not "authorized" to use :^)
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1354 [11:52:36] <ikanobori> LTCD: Reboot, at the grub prompt press any key; select your kernel you wish to boot and press e to edit it, on the line that says '/boot/vmlinuz' replace ro bla with rw init=/bin/bash
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1360 [11:55:59] <LTCD> iTeV: Nah I am trying to encrypt home folder without being logged in.
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1362 [11:56:15] <p0g0> ransomwetware?
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1365 [11:57:05] <LTCD> p0g0: Nope just safety
1366 [11:57:19] <LTCD> ikanobori: Thanks
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1368 [11:57:30] <afidegnum> any answer ?
1369 [11:58:11] <LTCD> afidegnum: Huh?
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1416 [12:17:46] <pingfloyd> so why not just do that as root?
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1444 [12:29:16] <afidegnum> hello, how do I check the list of available RAID disks?
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1450 [12:32:57] <epsilon> cat /proc/mdstat shows you current state and disks in raid
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1453 [12:33:05] <Nunux> hello
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1462 [12:34:51] <epsilon> if you want to scan, mdadm --scan --detail
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1467 [12:37:20] <petn-randall> afidegnum: What kind of RAID? There are many.
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1555 [13:31:27] <LTCD> When I logged into Debian ecryptfs used to decrypt my homefolder, but since I changed that user's password it does not. How do I use this command to change the passphrase as I do not understand the documentation? ecryptfs-rewrap-passphrase
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1559 [13:34:26] <petn-randall> LTCD: You're still in the wrong channel.
1560 [13:35:47] <Ool> LTCD: replaced-url
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1565 [13:36:41] <michael2> Im following the wiki guide for "Manually copying installer files to installer USB - the flexible way" and Im at this point here:
1566 [13:36:43] <michael2> replaced-url
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1570 [13:37:18] <michael2> I have syslinux installed and setup to start the kernel
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1573 [13:39:06] <michael2> but I dont understand how the kernel then starts the debian installer and what files I need to have in the boot directory which actually comprise the installer?
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1576 [13:40:34] <rmrfchik> hi
1577 [13:40:57] <LTCD> Ool: Thanks.
1578 [13:41:06] <LTCD> Ool: So the new password has to be in that file?
1579 [13:41:25] <rmrfchik> I want to watch specific dir and start application when new file appears
1580 [13:42:05] <michael2> in a normal/full OS the kernel starts pid 1. I assume you either replace pid1 with the debian installer or you explicitly set the kernel into a "boot" mode - possilbly as a command line parameter?
1581 [13:42:25] <michael2> rmrfchik: sounds like inotify might be useful to you
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1584 [13:43:50] <rmrfchik> michael2, nice. I didn't said I need cli solution :) just to start torrent
1585 [13:44:07] <Ool> LTCD: I don't know, long time I not use ecryptfs, but you can check the file before run the command
1586 [13:44:18] <rmrfchik> ahh, inofify-tools
1587 [13:44:21] <LTCD> ok
1588 [13:44:22] <petn-randall> LTCD, Ool, if you want to continue the support, please do so in the kali linux support channel.
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1590 [13:44:40] <petn-randall> LTCD: You've been told several times to move to the right channel. Please respect that.
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1592 [13:44:47] <LTCD> petn-randall: This time it's not for Kali though
1593 [13:45:18] <Ool> petn-randall: why ? How can I know is about Kali and not debian ?
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1595 [13:46:02] <petn-randall> Ool: Because LTCD was here yesterday, where we had this same discussion. They were using Kali.
1596 [13:46:22] <LTCD> petn-randall: I was using it as a desktop OS (stupid I know).
1597 [13:46:34] <petn-randall> LTCD: Can you paste the output of 'apt-cache policy ecryptfs-utils' to replaced-url
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1599 [13:47:12] <LTCD> petn-randall: Not really as I am about to go for lunch, the Kali channel sucks at OS questions, and the unwrap command seems easy enough.
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1643 [14:01:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1623
1644 [14:02:02] <Nothing4You> i'm having issues with my network configuration
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1647 [14:02:28] <Nothing4You> i'm using dhcp configured in /etc/network/interfaces
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1650 [14:03:19] <Nothing4You> when booting i can see systemd reaching target "Network is online" even though i haven't received the dhcp response yet
1651 [14:03:53] <Nothing4You> the dhcp response is further down in the journal
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1653 [14:04:27] <Nothing4You> this causes services that require network (After=network.target) to fail at startup
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1659 [14:05:41] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: That's unusual, normally ifupdown blocks until the network is up. Can you share your config from /etc/network/interfaces?
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1662 [14:06:25] <Nothing4You> pretty basic: allow-hotplug ens33; iface ens33 inet dhcp
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1668 [14:07:27] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: That doesn't bring any interface up at all.
1669 [14:07:33] <Nothing4You> it's in 2 lines
1670 [14:07:39] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: Can you paste the complete config to replaced-url
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1672 [14:08:30] <Nothing4You> replaced-url
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1674 [14:08:33] <Nothing4You> petn-randall
1675 [14:09:00] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: Try using 'auto ens33' instead of 'allow-hotplug ens33'.
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1677 [14:09:24] <Nothing4You> trying
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1683 [14:11:48] <Nothing4You> that seems to have fixed that
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1687 [14:12:28] <petn-randall> yay \o/
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1691 [14:13:28] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: The documentation could be clearer on that, indeed. Basically 'allow-hotplug' means 'bring it up when you see it', and since a system shouldn't block during boot for a device that may never be there, it just boots through.
1692 [14:13:44] <Nothing4You> i guess i need to add a sed to my preseed
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1694 [14:15:37] <Nothing4You> thanks petn-randall
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1696 [14:17:41] <petn-randall> Nothing4You: You're welcome! Glad we found the bug so quickly.
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1708 [14:24:17] <Billy2> anyone know if anything specific in sudo or screen changed in Debian 9? Having an issue that is just happening on Debian 9 machines that doesn't happen on lower versions or any other distro
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1711 [14:24:46] <jelly> Billy2: what kind of issue?
1712 [14:24:54] <jelly> !ask
1713 [14:24:54] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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1722 [14:26:21] <Billy2> basically I have a java app that calls commands like "sudo -u username -H /bin/bash -c screen -list", the commands don't return properly when ran from java and it doesn't appear to be throwing any errors
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1735 [14:27:28] <jelly> Billy2: and what's the stdout and stderr of that command say?
1736 [14:27:37] <Nothing4You> Billy2: not return or return with error?
1737 [14:27:45] <jelly> nothing, just quiet?
1738 [14:27:46] <Billy2> thats the thing, I'm not getting anything back
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1740 [14:27:58] <jelly> which exit status?
1741 [14:27:58] <Nothing4You> Billy2: maybe it's asking for a password?
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1746 [14:30:18] <Billy2> Nothing4You it shouldn't be, if i run the same command from putty as root it works and at the moment the java app is running as root
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1749 [14:30:26] <Billy2> jelly.. working on getting the exit status
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1751 [14:30:51] <Billy2> just odd that its very specific to debian 9
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1755 [14:32:20] <jelly> if I had to take a wild-add guess, I'd look at requiretty (man sudoers)
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1757 [14:32:35] <jelly> s/add/ass/
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1759 [14:32:47] <Nothing4You> isn't that disabled by default on deb9?
1760 [14:33:40] <jelly> on fresh installations
1761 [14:33:49] <Nothing4You> that's what i meant
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1763 [14:34:31] <Billy2> all dozen machines i've tested on were fresh installs and requiretty is disabled
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1767 [14:36:29] <jelly> Billy2: until you get useful results from sudo invocation inside app, take a look at /var/log/auth.log and see what sudo is running, if anything
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1778 [14:44:56] <tw> Billy2: another wildass guess, try reading the output byte by byte instead of buffered.
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1794 [14:55:15] <wrksx> Shitting my pants, need to upgrade a server to linux-image-4.9.0-6-amd64/stable 4.9.88-1+deb9u1
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1796 [14:55:49] <wrksx> I hate these kernel update
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1798 [14:56:18] <colo-work> nothing bad will happen.
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1800 [14:57:35] <wrksx> I really need to find a way to test these before upgrading a live server
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1805 [14:59:19] <wrksx> How do you guys deal with this?
1806 [15:00:20] <babilen> test server(s)/deployment(s)
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1808 [15:00:39] <babilen> But you can not, by definition, test the upgrade itself
1809 [15:00:46] <babilen> (only comparable ones)
1810 [15:00:51] <wrksx> yeah
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1812 [15:01:08] <wrksx> Is it testable using docker?
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1816 [15:04:01] <babilen> wrksx: Docker doesn't help with tests of Kernel upgrades
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1820 [15:04:57] <wrksx> babilen, would you have any recommendation on a virtualization system to test kernel upgrade ?
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1822 [15:06:16] <babilen> kvm, xen, virtualbox ... would all work
1823 [15:06:53] <babilen> You might also want to look into techniques such as "blue green deployment" or "canary deployment"
1824 [15:07:10] <babilen> k8s might come in handy too if you already have a bunch of dockerised services
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1826 [15:08:03] <wrksx> Actually I don't but I wanted to experiment with docker and I thought, maybe I can use that
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1828 [15:08:35] <wrksx> babilen, I'll read about blue green and canary deployment, never heard about these.
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1831 [15:09:08] <wrksx> babilen, thx for the insights
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1854 [15:18:08] <Thedarkb-X40> Hi, I'm trying to install SparkyLinux, which is based on Debian, but I can't get past the grub menu
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1856 [15:18:11] <Thedarkb-X40> It just loops.
1857 [15:18:16] <Thedarkb-X40> Back to the menu
1858 [15:18:32] <Thedarkb-X40> It doesn't load intrd.img
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1860 [15:19:35] <petn-randall> !sparkylinux
1861 [15:19:36] <dpkg> SparkyLinux is a Linux distribution based on <testing>. It is not supported in #debian or #debian-next. replaced-url
1862 [15:20:06] <petn-randall> Thedarkb-X40: ^^^ it's not supported here, if you find an IRC channel for it, let us know, so we can update the factoid.
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1865 [15:21:14] <Thedarkb-X40> petn-randall, Unfortunately, they have no channel
1866 [15:21:17] <babilen> Also try installing Debian - it might just work
1867 [15:21:34] <Thedarkb-X40> Nah, for some reason Debian won't co-operate with my WiFi card
1868 [15:21:40] <Thedarkb-X40> Every other distro will.
1869 [15:21:45] <babilen> You might need firmware
1870 [15:21:48] <babilen> dpkg: firmware image
1871 [15:21:48] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
1872 [15:21:50] <Thedarkb-X40> The only message I get is "link not ready"
1873 [15:21:57] <Thedarkb-X40> I had the firmware, I had the drivers.
1874 [15:22:00] <babilen> Which adapter is it?
1875 [15:22:08] <Thedarkb-X40> ipw2200 I think.
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1877 [15:22:21] <Thedarkb-X40> 2200BG Calexico 2
1878 [15:22:22] <babilen> That should work just fine (if you have the firmware)
1879 [15:22:25] <Thedarkb-X40> It should
1880 [15:22:28] <Thedarkb-X40> But it won't.
1881 [15:22:29] <babilen> In fact I've used many boxes with that chipset
1882 [15:22:38] <Thedarkb-X40> And no one in this IRC channel could tell me why.
1883 [15:22:46] <Thedarkb-X40> and dmesg just says "link not ready"
1884 [15:22:47] <babilen> pity
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1886 [15:22:55] <Thedarkb-X40> There's no hardware WiFi switch on the machine either.
1887 [15:23:12] <Thedarkb-X40> rfkill is softblocking it, but unblocking it doesn't change anything.
1888 [15:23:16] <babilen> Maybe it's the "if (user == Thedarkb-X40) { fail ; }" code you're running into
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1890 [15:24:13] <Thedarkb-X40> Seems that way
1891 [15:24:17] <wrksx> what an evil code
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1893 [15:24:18] <Thedarkb-X40> I never get any error messages.
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1896 [15:24:35] <Thedarkb-X40> I've tried it on two machines with the same card and the same thing happens.
1897 [15:24:47] <Thedarkb-X40> Seems Centrino machines are dirt cheap and common now
1898 [15:24:51] <Thedarkb-X40> I paid a fiver for this one.
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1905 [15:29:59] <lorde> I've got an old laptop with 2200 series Intel Wifi card, and it worked after I had installed the firmware package
1906 [15:30:09] <domovoy_> so, i'm writing a script that should be able to search/download packages from other sources than the ones in /etc/apt/sources.list(.d). I've create an apt.conf like this: replaced-url
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1908 [15:31:37] <alkisg> I'm maintaining a package and I want to note somewhere "why I have each dependency in debian/control". Where's a good place for that? E.g. debian/README.md? Or inline in comments in debian/control?
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1914 [15:34:36] <wrksx> Is this possible to install debian (stretch) with an older kernel than the latest ?
1915 [15:34:53] <wrksx> I mean, I'm sure there's a way, but how would that be done ?
1916 [15:35:35] <alkisg> How old?
1917 [15:35:46] <wrksx> few feeks I guess
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1921 [15:36:23] <alkisg> So is it just a question of "where to find an older kernel so that you install it after normal debian installation"?
1922 [15:36:51] <wrksx> actually I'd like to install the older one to then test the upgrade to the new one
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1924 [15:37:52] <alkisg> ...what does "kernel upgrade" mean in this context? You can remove the new package and reinstall it if you want to test that
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1926 [15:38:16] <NapoleonWils0n> hi all
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1928 [15:38:50] <wrksx> alkisg, I'm always scared to upgrade linux-image so I want to test that on another (virtual) machine
1929 [15:38:57] <NapoleonWils0n> when i used sytemctl suspend the screen always locks up
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1931 [15:39:12] <alkisg> wrksx: you do know that you can install 10 kernels and select the one you want from the grub menu, right?
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1933 [15:39:33] <alkisg> wrksx: i.e. nothing to be scared of; you can just use the old one if the new has issues etc
1934 [15:39:41] <wrksx> alkisg, I'm talking about a remote server
1935 [15:40:02] <wrksx> I've been burnt once my box would boot anymore
1936 [15:40:12] <wrksx> wouldn't
1937 [15:40:12] <alkisg> I can't see how that matters; if a kernel hangs, it'll hang either on "ugprade" or in a "multiple kernels" scenario
1938 [15:40:31] <NapoleonWils0n> deos dpms interfer with systemctl suspend
1939 [15:40:38] <alkisg> In both cases, you'll need to select another kernel from the grub menu
1940 [15:41:05] <wrksx> alkisg, not sure I understand what you mean. If I upgrade a distant server and it doesn't boot, then I'm screwed
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1942 [15:41:23] <alkisg> wrksx: and how is that different if you "upgrade the kernel and it doesn't boot"?
1943 [15:41:48] <alkisg> (04:36:51 μμ) wrksx: actually I'd like to install the older one to then test the upgrade to the new one ==> i.e. after that "test", what if it doesn't boot?
1944 [15:42:18] <wrksx> alkisg, I'll run the test on another server
1945 [15:42:28] <wrksx> first going to test using a virtual machine
1946 [15:42:41] <alkisg> You can run the same test in any case, either "upgrading" or "installing multiple kernels"
1947 [15:42:57] <alkisg> I can't see why "upgrade" is different from "installing multiple kernels" in the cases that you mention
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1949 [15:44:50] <wrksx> alkisg, because if the system is installed with a newer kernel, then downgrade then upgrade, it's not the same as install with an older kernel then upgrade, is it ?
1950 [15:44:59] <wrksx> maybe I'm not understanding this well
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1953 [15:45:17] <alkisg> The only thing that changes in what you said, is just the "default kernel". Both kernels are available, so no big difference.
1954 [15:45:31] <alkisg> You can easily set the "default kernel" that you want with grub-set-default
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1961 [15:48:42] <wrksx> alkisg, yeah the more I think about it the more I think my issue (long ago) was not really linked to the kernel update
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1964 [15:49:10] <wrksx> alkisg, actually I think it was during an upgrade to a newer debian version. That would make more sense
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1966 [15:49:23] <alkisg> wrksx: sure, that would matter
1967 [15:49:47] <wrksx> Thanks for chatting
1968 [15:49:58] <alkisg> np
1969 [15:50:21] <wrksx> How would I install and select an older kernel then ? just apt install it and grub-set-default ?
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1974 [15:52:31] <NapoleonWils0n> anyone use gnome was thinking about having a look
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1977 [15:53:15] <jhutchins_wk> NapoleonWils0n: Nah, nobody uses gnome.
1978 [15:53:52] <NapoleonWils0n> i use i3wm, but always had a problem with the screen locking after suspend or lid close
1979 [15:54:12] <NapoleonWils0n> which is a pain on a laptop
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1982 [15:54:49] <wrksx> so debian for 64 bit is called amd64
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1986 [15:57:48] <babilen> dpkg: why amd64
1987 [15:57:49] <dpkg> The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind). replaced-url
1988 [15:57:53] <stevendale> Yeah wrksx :D
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1994 [15:58:35] <wrksx> babilen, I think that makes me doubt on every debian install I make (which is not so frequent I admit =)
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2002 [16:01:16] <lone-wolf> I put this code in init.d named to wireshark and after give permittions ann run update-rc.d but dont work. replaced-url
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2021 [16:08:30] <petn-randall> lone-wolf: Right. That's not an init script at all. You need to understand how init script works, and then write it properly.
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2026 [16:09:36] <lone-wolf> petn-randall: Ok.
2027 [16:09:45] <lone-wolf> Thank you.
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2029 [16:11:34] <jelly> does rc.local still work?
2030 [16:11:44] <jelly> !rc.local
2031 [16:11:44] <dpkg> /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd>
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2033 [16:12:04] <lone-wolf> jelly In my system dont there this file.
2034 [16:12:18] <greycat> If you create it, it will be used, unless you changed something.
2035 [16:12:29] <petn-randall> lone-wolf: But maybe even an init script is the wrong tool for your issue. What are you trying to accomplish?
2036 [16:12:30] <jelly> lone-wolf: that's why the bot just said "in stretch you need to create it."
2037 [16:12:32] <petn-randall> !goal
2038 [16:12:32] <dpkg> Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is.
2039 [16:12:36] <petn-randall> lone-wolf: ^^^
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2045 [16:14:04] <lone-wolf> petn-randall: I want run wireshark with root in start.
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2052 [16:17:21] <lone-wolf> petn--randall: I dont need use init.d?
2053 [16:18:46] <jelly> tshark or the GUI?
2054 [16:18:54] <lone-wolf> GUI
2055 [16:19:11] <jelly> they you need a GUI environment, possibly with autologin
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2057 [16:19:26] <wrksx> does 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 mean 4.9.88-1 patched ?
2058 [16:19:54] <jhutchins_wk> wrksx: Intel developed their own 64B architecture, but it was not backwards-compatible with 64B code. AMD got tired of waiting and developed their own better design, and Intel licensed it from them.
2059 [16:20:12] <jhutchins_wk> Not backwards compatible with 32B code. More coffee.
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2061 [16:20:43] <wrksx> So it's well named =)
2062 [16:20:44] <lone-wolf> jelly What's GUI environment:
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2064 [16:20:49] <lone-wolf> ?
2065 [16:21:21] <jelly> lone-wolf: that thing that appears when you log in at the console, with mouse and windows and apps
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2067 [16:22:45] <donofrio_> what is the most recent release that I can run on my platform replaced-url
2068 [16:22:46] <lone-wolf> jelly: Dont understand, but i use lxde.
2069 [16:23:09] <greycat> LXDE is definitely a GUI environment (desktop environment)
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2077 [16:25:29] <lone-wolf> I run this command bash -c "gksu /usr/bin/wireshark" for run wireshark in GUI with root.
2078 [16:25:55] <lone-wolf> but i need run wirershark in start for linux
2079 [16:25:58] <lone-wolf> in init.d
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2081 [16:26:40] <somiaj> write a systemd unit file
2082 [16:26:53] <petn-randall> lone-wolf: Then add it to autostart in your lxde session. init knows nothing about running X servers, so it would fail to start the tool.
2083 [16:27:20] <wrksx> after linux-image-4.9.0-6-amd64/stable 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 has been released,
2084 [16:27:20] <somiaj> oh this requires a gui, then yea, write a .desktop file and put it in the autostart dir.
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2086 [16:27:32] <wrksx> linux-image-4.9.0-6-amd64/stable 4.9.88-1 is not available anymore on the repo, is it ?
2087 [16:27:35] <lone-wolf> petn-randall: i already mnake this, but it dont run gksu command, only wireshark.
2088 [16:27:41] <greycat> Is this "wireshark" a program that displays information to a human being, or is it a server process that accumulates data into a file, or what?
2089 [16:27:58] <jhutchins_wk> Wireshark can also be used to examine a tcpdump file that can be done in a console.
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2091 [16:28:32] <greycat> !tell wrksx about snapshot
2092 [16:28:38] <petn-randall> greycat: It's a packet sniffing tool with a GUI and buttons to click and everything.
2093 [16:28:56] <greycat> Oh, then running it from rc.local or init.d or systemd-at-boot would be impossible.
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2097 [16:29:42] <lone-wolf> Hmm.
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2099 [16:30:07] <lone-wolf> There other way?
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2101 [16:30:17] <greycat> Configure it in your desktop environment's startup.
2102 [16:30:31] <greycat> Which may or may not also be your X session startup. I know nothing about LXDE.
2103 [16:31:12] <lone-wolf> greycat: In /home/lonewolf/.config/lxsession/LXDE/autostart ?
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2109 [16:32:39] <greycat> As I said, I don't know how LXDE does it.
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2114 [16:34:00] <lone-wolf> autostart don't run command root for exemplo sudo ou gksu I don't know why.
2115 [16:34:18] <jhutchins_wk> lone-wolf: What are you trying to see with it?
2116 [16:34:50] <lone-wolf> I want run wireshark with root.
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2118 [16:35:01] <lone-wolf> In start from linux.
2119 [16:35:16] <greycat> No, NOT at "start from linux". At login.
2120 [16:35:33] <jelly> lone-wolf: you'll have to configure sudo to let you run the desired command without password entry
2121 [16:35:41] <somiaj> lxde and most desktops just require a .desktop file being placed in some dir in $HOMe
2122 [16:35:49] <somiaj> there is an standard autostart dir there.
2123 [16:36:25] <jelly> also. wireshark GUI shouldn't run as root; it's better to tell it to use a separate small sniffer and run the GUI as normal user
2124 [16:36:30] <jhutchins_wk> lone-wolf: If you want to capture networ traffic from when the network comes up you need to use tcpdump, not wireshark. tcpdump output can be directed to a file, which you can then exmine with wireshark,
2125 [16:36:36] <lone-wolf> jelly: I already configure in /etc/sudoers.
2126 [16:36:39] <jhutchins_wk> lone-wolf: What are you looking for?
2127 [16:36:44] <jhutchins_wk> !br
2128 [16:36:44] <dpkg> Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
2129 [16:36:48] <jelly> lone-wolf: with NOPASSWD?
2130 [16:36:58] <lone-wolf> yes.
2131 [16:37:11] <jelly> and that works when you try it from a terminal?
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2136 [16:38:29] <lone-wolf> jelly When I put the command in terminal it run without password, but in autostart the gksu dont work.
2137 [16:38:37] <greycat> don't use gksu. use sudo.
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2139 [16:38:42] <greycat> just like you did in the terminal.
2140 [16:39:02] <lone-wolf> also does not work
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2146 [16:42:12] <jelly> you'll have to look at ~/.Xsession-errors to see why it failed to work
2147 [16:44:01] <lorde> Why is there a need to use sudo in that situation?
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2149 [16:44:36] <lorde> Isn't there a special group you can add a user to in order for that user to be able to capture traffic from interfaces?
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2151 [16:44:56] <lorde> I forgot the name of the group
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2157 [16:46:28] <lorde> Just google 'debian wireshark group' - it's going to give you the solution you need, I believe
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2160 [16:46:52] <lorde> Without horrible NOPASSWD solutions
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2162 [16:47:22] <petn-randall> Yes, adding your user to the wireshark group is all you need to capture with wireshark.
2163 [16:47:29] <petn-randall> No need to run it all with root.
2164 [16:48:04] <themill> (also gksu is going away and sudo tends to be problematic; pkexec is thew new toy)
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2166 [16:48:32] <lorde> Why is sudo problematic?
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2168 [16:49:27] <somiaj> lorde: it doesn't fully understand x enviroments.
2169 [16:49:30] <themill> you've got to do an xauth dance and/or you can end up with root owning your .Xauthority when then becomes a problem
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2171 [16:49:53] <themill> it also needs a controlling terminal
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2176 [16:52:08] <uzivatel> Hi guys, i want to use Debsums according to this howto replaced-url
2177 [16:52:21] <greycat> ,info debsums
2178 [16:52:22] <judd> Package debsums (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: tool for verification of installed package files against MD5 checksums. Version: 2.2.2; Size: 48.3k; Installed: 120k; Screenshot: replaced-url
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2180 [16:52:58] <themill> none of that is needed any more
2181 [16:53:02] <lorde> somiaj: it's not supposed to be aware of X environments, there's PackageKit for that purpose, if I'm not mistaken
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2183 [16:53:40] <greycat> Can we all just agree that the fundamental CONCEPT of "running an X client application as root, while logged in as a normal user" is broken and stupid?
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2188 [16:56:29] <themill> dpkg: tell uzivatel about debsums
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2190 [16:56:55] <jelly> greycat: which is why wireshark has a small helper sniffer, with either setiud or setcap just to be able to promisc mode and sniff
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2194 [16:58:14] <jelly> how does pkexec work with remote X11, say forwarding I hear you ask?
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2196 [16:59:18] <themill> nfc
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2202 [17:01:01] <uzivatel> judd:i understand what it is, i mean how to use it following the instructions on that page? Following the steps ?
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2211 [17:04:05] <jelly> uzivatel: uh, you pretty much just run it
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2213 [17:04:47] <themill> uzivatel: you ignore that out of date wiki page
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2216 [17:06:18] <uzivatel> themill: So how can i scan system from live-debian using debsums?
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2218 [17:07:00] <petn-randall> uzivatel: You chroot into it, and just run it.
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2220 [17:07:38] <petn-randall> uzivatel: Note that it *only* helps detecting corruption, not any manipulation on purpose, since the debsums are saves on the same machine as the host.
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2237 [17:14:07] <uzivatel> petn-randall: In case my system was attacked, is there any way how to detect infected programs or files from livecd?
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2250 [17:19:37] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
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2255 [17:20:34] <petn-randall> uzivatel: Not in any practical sense. You'd have to run debsums from the live cd, with the debsums file of each from from a clean source, against the infected machine. And it doesn't do that out of the box.
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2257 [17:20:51] <ychaouche> I need to make one php script run some shell script via sudo but I can't figure out how to allow it to do so, and I don't have enough visibilty about what could cause the error I'm getting on the httpd logswhic says : [23-May-2018 16:16:07 +0100]: <0eu6q9qk> PHP Error: Password plugin: Unable to execute sudo ls -lrt in /var/replaced-url
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2261 [17:21:11] <greycat> *shudder*
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2265 [17:21:37] <petn-randall> ychaouche: just no.
2266 [17:21:50] <ychaouche> In this example I'm just trying to run sudo ls -lrt from the php script but it just says unable to execute.
2267 [17:21:55] <greycat> "just"
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2271 [17:22:40] <ychaouche> petn-randall: any alternatives to getting a root-owned bash script somewhere in /root/ ran by php ?
2272 [17:22:54] <ychaouche> s/alternatives/suggestions/
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2274 [17:23:08] <greycat> Stop thinking that you should run a shell script from a PHP program. Stop thinking that you should be raising privileges in a program invoked from a web environment.
2275 [17:23:09] <ychaouche> and probably run*
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2278 [17:23:30] <SerajewelKS> inb4 "it's okay i know what i'm doing"
2279 [17:23:34] <greycat> Stop thinking that you should be exracting the filenames from a directory by running ls, EVER, IN ANY CONTEXT, PERIOD.
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2282 [17:23:42] <greycat> replaced-url
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2285 [17:23:53] <ychaouche> greycat: ls is not what I want, it's just an example
2286 [17:24:05] <SerajewelKS> this sounds like an XY problem
2287 [17:24:07] <greycat> /msg greybot b9
2288 [17:24:12] <SerajewelKS> take a step back and tell us what you're trying to accomplish
2289 [17:24:19] <greycat> *plonk*
2290 [17:24:19] <SerajewelKS> not "run a script from PHP"
2291 [17:24:39] <SerajewelKS> you think you need to do that to accomplish something. what is that something?
2292 [17:25:13] <FinalX> wait... you're not only letting PHP execute shell commands, you're letting PHP execute shell commands as root (sudo) ánd you don't know what you're doing so you're coming to ask here? am I the only one who thinks this is a major disaster waiting to happen? (judging by greycat's response.. probably not..)
2293 [17:25:14] <greycat> dpkg, example is <reply>All examples given by the questioner will be broken, misleading, wrong, incomplete, and/or not representative of the actual question.
2294 [17:25:16] <dpkg> greycat: okay
2295 [17:25:18] <ychaouche> SerajewelKS: I want to make sure passwords are strong enough before letting users change their passwords via their webmail which is roundcube.
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2297 [17:26:24] <ychaouche> SerajewelKS: roundcube has a password plugin that can be configured in many ways to allow users to change their passwords via the web interface, one of the ways is to let you call an arbitrary command or shell script of your choice, by implementing your own "password driver" in the form of custom PHP code
2298 [17:26:42] <FinalX> ... sure, what could possibly go wrong
2299 [17:26:49] <jelly> ychaouche: why not use a service like poppassd
2300 [17:26:51] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: okay so, are these users system users?
2301 [17:26:59] <SerajewelKS> and if so, why are they system users instead of virtual users?
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2304 [17:27:08] <ychaouche> SerajewelKS: no, they are virtual users
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2306 [17:27:15] <jelly> SerajewelKS: why wouldn't they be system users?
2307 [17:27:19] <SerajewelKS> okay so.... *why* do you need to run this as root?
2308 [17:27:25] <uzivatel> petn-randall: Thanks for info
2309 [17:27:37] <FinalX> and why an ls if you're going to change passwords..?
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2312 [17:27:45] <ychaouche> SerajewelKS: because the scripts are in /root/
2313 [17:27:52] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: so?
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2315 [17:28:00] <ychaouche> FinalX: ls was just an example, I don't want to run ls
2316 [17:28:02] <SerajewelKS> do they need root privileges to run?
2317 [17:28:58] <ychaouche> I don't think so, it only needs to connect to the database with a specific mysql user
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2319 [17:29:04] <FinalX> well, you seem to know nothing about filesystem permissions, and not much about doing things safely in PHP, or safely in general.. I would highly recommend reviewing what you're doing before you're doing it. especially on a webmail instance that's gonna be (semi-)public (I'm sure you're not the only user). This is a disaster waiting to happen, for all of your users that you have a responsibility to.
2320 [17:29:07] <SerajewelKS> jelly: using system users for users who only need access to mail generally strikes me as a bad idea. then you need extra config to disable ssh for them, etc. if they only need access to mail, they don't need to be in /etc/passwd
2321 [17:29:09] <jelly> depending on how the user and password database implemented, changing a password might not require running anything as root
2322 [17:29:18] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: okay so. why do you need sudo?
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2324 [17:29:38] <jelly> SerajewelKS: being able to breach one process and gain access to ALL users' mail strikes me as a bad idea
2325 [17:29:42] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: presumably your PHP scripts already have the requisite permission to get the database credentials
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2327 [17:30:09] <SerajewelKS> jelly: indeed. it's a trade-off.
2328 [17:30:12] <ychaouche> I don't access the database from PHP, I do it from shell scripts.
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2330 [17:30:20] <jelly> also, I like filesystem quotas
2331 [17:30:21] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: right. either way.
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2334 [17:30:31] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: i see nothing here that requires sudo
2335 [17:30:36] <ychaouche> yes probably
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2344 [17:34:36] <ychaouche> how do I execute a script as replaced-url
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2347 [17:34:41] <ychaouche> from command line
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2349 [17:35:13] <ychaouche> root@messagerie[10.10.10.20] ~/SCRIPTS/MAIL # su replaced-url
2350 [17:35:14] <ychaouche> This account is currently not available.
2351 [17:35:16] <ychaouche> root@messagerie[10.10.10.20] ~/SCRIPTS/MAIL #
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2354 [17:36:24] <ychaouche> SerajewelKS: if you were, where would you put the scripts ? (path)
2355 [17:36:25] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: PHP is ostensibly already running as replaced-url
2356 [17:36:41] <ychaouche> if you were me*
2357 [17:37:09] <ychaouche> my mail admin scripts are in /root/SCRIPTS/MAIL, I need to change their location so that replaced-url
2358 [17:37:25] <ychaouche> or any other user for that matter
2359 [17:37:29] <SerajewelKS> ychaouche: you only need to move them if /root isn't readable by replaced-url
2360 [17:37:43] <SerajewelKS> there is always /usr/local
2361 [17:37:48] <ychaouche> hum
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2365 [17:40:16] <lorde> ychaouche: if a user uses nologin shell, the way to run programs as that user is 'sudo -u $user $program'
2366 [17:40:42] <ychaouche> thank you good lorde
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2368 [17:41:18] <jelly> or su - user -s /bin/bash -c 'something to run'
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2402 [17:56:38] <lorde> jelly: I think that won't work if you're not root and the user has no password set
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2426 [18:07:29] <gordonthegopher> Anyone using the get-iplayer snap on Stretch?
2427 [18:07:36] <gordonthegopher> I can't get it to work
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2430 [18:08:12] <gordonthegopher> It throws "bash: get-iplayer: command not found"
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2432 [18:08:25] <gordonthegopher> It's listed as installed when I run sudo snap list
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2436 [18:09:24] <jhutchins_wk> gordonthegopher: Maybe the binary is named differently, use dpkg -l get-iplayer to see what it installed.
2437 [18:09:26] <coisweb> hey guys how can i kill all process in nohup ?
2438 [18:09:43] <jhutchins_wk> gordonthegopher: Sorry, -L (uppercase).
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2441 [18:10:25] <gordonthegopher> It says not installed, but if it's a snap rather than a deb, would it show up that way?
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2445 [18:10:34] <gordonthegopher> I installed the Spotify Snap and that works fine
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2448 [18:12:15] <jelly> lorde: try it
2449 [18:12:39] <jelly> of course it won't work as not root, duh
2450 [18:12:57] <jhutchins_wk> gordonthegopher: snap should have a way to list components. man snap?
2451 [18:13:24] <lorde> jelly: while 'sudo -u $user' will if you configure it properly
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2453 [18:14:11] <jelly> coisweb: just kill them by pid, what's the issue?
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2455 [18:14:50] <feynhat> hello
2456 [18:14:59] <themill> gordonthegopher: _ not -
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2458 [18:15:36] <feynhat> i am using xfce. Does anyone know how I can see what command is executed by an entry in the application launcher?
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2470 [18:21:37] <jhutchins_wk> feynhat: replaced-url
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2478 [18:26:12] <jhutchins_wk> feynhat: Doesn't directly answer your question, but it does describe where the entries come from and how to see what's in them.
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2480 [18:26:40] <feynhat> jhutchins_wk: Thanks.
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2513 [18:40:32] <gordonthegopher> get-iplayer and get_iplayer both throw "bash: command not found"
2514 [18:40:47] <gordonthegopher> When I try to manuall add a snap alias it says it can't be found
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2520 [18:42:38] <hypn0> did you install the debs, they are installed in lxde already
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2522 [18:43:03] <hypn0> no, that's youtube-dl :-)
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2524 [18:44:33] <gordonthegopher> Ah got get-iplayer working. Have to pass "snap run get-iplayer <options> <URL>
2525 [18:45:17] <hypn0> you installed ffmpeg?
2526 [18:45:52] <babilen> gordonthegopher: In the end its just a script you can grab directly and place in your path. You find it at replaced-url
2527 [18:46:00] <babilen> No need for snaps or any overhead
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2530 [18:47:06] <hassoon> hi
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2532 [18:47:55] <gordonthegopher> I wasn't interested in the deb
2533 [18:48:04] <babilen> Which deb?
2534 [18:48:10] <hypn0> I was wondering what snaps was
2535 [18:48:11] <gordonthegopher> I hate snaps, but I feel like a lot of devs are going to adopt them so doing dry runs in a VM
2536 [18:48:35] <gordonthegopher> You can manually install dependencies then copy the binary to /usr/bin
2537 [18:48:46] <gordonthegopher> But I feel like the maintainers will drop support for that soon
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2540 [18:50:26] <hypn0> Canonical describes Snap as a universal Linux package which can work on any distribution. up to no good again :-)
2541 [18:50:39] <babilen> Well, I suggested to just grab the script directly and place it in your $PATH
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2544 [18:51:47] <gordonthegopher> I know about the script method, but as I say, I feel like devs are going to widely adopt snap even though it is a security mess
2545 [18:52:00] <gordonthegopher> So I am getting familiar with them in a Stretch VM
2546 [18:52:18] <gordonthegopher> Cryptomator is another program I use that is flirting with going snappy only
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2548 [18:52:51] <hypn0> but you don't need snap package, get-iplayer is just a script
2549 [18:53:15] <gordonthegopher> The concept is great and awful. No dependency hell, but bloaty installs and Windows like automatic updates
2550 [18:53:53] <hypn0> what happened to replaced-url
2551 [18:54:07] <gordonthegopher> Script plus following dependencies: libreplaced-url
2552 [18:54:48] <gordonthegopher> On this Debian VM I have the backports and MX17 repos enabled to cherry pick newer packages without running testing or unstable
2553 [18:54:58] <gordonthegopher> (using APT pinning)
2554 [18:55:21] <hypn0> you probably have dependency missing
2555 [18:55:36] <gordonthegopher> No you misunderstand
2556 [18:55:41] <gordonthegopher> It's working now
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2558 [18:55:48] <gordonthegopher> The snap package bundles all the dependencies
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2561 [18:56:02] <hypn0> now you just need a tv license :-)
2562 [18:56:10] <gordonthegopher> My issue was that bash doesn't recognise the alias "get-iplayer" unless you pass "run" as well
2563 [18:56:31] <gordonthegopher> This is different to Solus and Ubuntu where it runs with just get-iplayer
2564 [18:56:36] <gordonthegopher> or get_iplayer
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2566 [18:58:24] <gordonthegopher> I prefer debs and repos and maintainers but apparently this is a diminishing opinion
2567 [18:59:04] <gordonthegopher> replaced-url
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2573 [18:59:39] <gordonthegopher> Canonical's response is "but sandboxing". Mmmmmmmmmmmm
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2575 [19:00:03] <bitess> snaps are not checked. you have to trust the publisher.
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2583 [19:03:18] <hypn0> aren't appimages the same
2584 [19:03:56] <hypn0> they are just staticly linked packages aren't they
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2590 [19:06:21] <bitess> not statically linked, but it includes all libs it needs to run.
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2592 [19:06:54] <hypn0> isn't that statically linked :-/
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2595 [19:07:42] <bitess> static linking is something you do at compile time. appimages can bring dynamically linked libs if needed.
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2598 [19:08:12] <hypn0> oh
2599 [19:08:14] <bitess> but everything is put in one file after all :P
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2601 [19:09:50] <hypn0> if everything was statically linked, every package would work everywhere, would be much better, you just download what you want
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2603 [19:10:29] <rudi_s> Ah yeah ...
2604 [19:10:40] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip )
2605 [19:10:48] <rudi_s> Because that's the way it works ...
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2625 [19:19:01] <hypn0> that's what need to be done, then linux would take off
2626 [19:19:52] <rudi_s> hypn0: Are you serious?
2627 [19:20:13] <greycat> I have no idea what he's responding to (I /ignored that ubuntu guy), but it sounded sarcastic.
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2630 [19:20:42] <hypn0> rudi_s: no I'm hypn0, but yes :-)
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2635 [19:22:07] <hypn0> then you just need to put everything in a menu, you can have several older versions too
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2639 [19:23:59] <roylaprattep> Hi, easy question guys. Why Debian use "/var/cache/bind/" instead of "/etc/bind" in "named.conf.options"?
2640 [19:24:29] <antto> well that's weird, how do i take a screenshot of a program where i've "pulled out" a menu?
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2642 [19:24:46] <antto> i can't believe i'm asking this
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2645 [19:25:47] <antto> while i've pulled out the menu, pressing PringScreen doesn't respond (it normally loads up some fancy dialog)
2646 [19:25:50] <greycat> antto: one way is to type something like "sleep 5; scrot" in a terminal, then pull up the menu, and wait
2647 [19:26:02] <antto> oh
2648 [19:26:09] <lorde> antto: yeah, timers will save you
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2652 [19:27:03] <antto> i guess this "scrot" can't copy to clipboard?
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2657 [19:27:58] <bitSt0rm> Hello all!
2658 [19:28:00] <lorde> antto: no idea, I always use whatever screenshot tool a DE provides
2659 [19:28:31] <bitSt0rm> I have shutter scripted to my printscr - works like a charm
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2662 [19:28:54] <bitSt0rm> only thing i miss is a feature to autoupload to the internet
2663 [19:28:54] <antto> lorde so do i, but it doesn't work while the menu is "opened"
2664 [19:29:06] <nekOwOseam> Fish doesn't create an executable in /bin/ and only makes one in /usr/bin, is this normal behavior or is it a bug?
2665 [19:29:11] <nekOwOseam> Fish is a shell
2666 [19:29:39] <bitSt0rm> An oyster-ish fish? O_o
2667 [19:30:38] <nekOwOseam> The fishy kind of fish. The fish that smells fishy...looks fishy...
2668 [19:30:55] <nekOwOseam> The fishy kind of fish that doesn't create an executable in /bin/ kind of fishy...
2669 [19:31:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1644
2670 [19:31:11] <bitSt0rm> Haha XD
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2680 [19:33:14] <noodlepie> fish is great, I never thought I'd leave bash!
2681 [19:34:33] <nekOwOseam> noodlepie: did fish create an executable in /bin/ or only /usr/bin for you?
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2683 [19:34:40] <jhutchins_wk> nekOwOseam: Back when we had to build up a system using a lot of small disks there was a reason for /bin and /usr/bin, but they're usually on the same partition/mount these days, so the reasons blur.
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2685 [19:35:18] <jhutchins_wk> !fhs
2686 [19:35:18] <dpkg> Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See replaced-url
2687 [19:35:28] <noodlepie> only in /usr/bin, same in Gentoo
2688 [19:35:42] <nekOwOseam> I understand the filesystem, I just found it odd it only made one in /usr/bin
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2690 [19:35:53] <noodlepie> nekOwOseam, you can symlink the app with "ln -s /usr/bin/fish /bin/fish"
2691 [19:35:57] <greycat> The primary difference between /usr/bin and /bin is that the programs in /usr/bin may not be available in the earlier part of booting.
2692 [19:36:36] <greycat> /bin is "supposed" to be on the root partition
2693 [19:37:13] <noodlepie> you don;t need fish until userws are able to log in
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2695 [19:37:24] <lorde> Can someone give me a link where I can read about all these fancy "!" commands yall use?
2696 [19:37:26] <greycat> so long as you don't write in early-stage boot scripts in fish, that's true
2697 [19:37:32] <greycat> s/in/any/
2698 [19:38:03] <greycat> lorde: you mean bot triggers? I doubt there is a single unified collection of them all anywhere.
2699 [19:38:29] <annadane> !search dpkg
2700 [19:38:29] <dpkg> You can search my database on the web at replaced-url
2701 [19:38:48] <greycat> Of course that doesn't include judd's triggers.
2702 [19:38:57] <lorde> Who's judd?
2703 [19:39:01] <greycat> !judd
2704 [19:39:01] <dpkg> judd is a window into the Ultimate Debian Database (ask me about <udd>). Judd can look up package, PCI ID and kernel config information. See replaced-url
2705 [19:39:43] <annadane> judd also isn't invoked by !, though
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2707 [19:40:07] * greycat waves a paw around in the air. Details!
2708 [19:40:48] <lorde> Okay, I think I shall refrain from using these "!" things and treat them as magic
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2713 [19:41:44] <annadane> you can try it out by /msg dpkg blah or /msg judd blah, and for dpkg specifically there's #debian-bots on irc.oftc.net
2714 [19:41:52] <annadane> i don't know if there's an equivalent for freenode
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2716 [19:41:56] <Iridos> lorde, you can always address the robots with their name… which I usually do, because it is less confusing for newcomers
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2718 [19:42:32] <greycat> there's a #debian-bots here as well
2719 [19:42:32] <lorde> Iridos: where can I get the list of robots' names?
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2722 [19:42:47] <greycat> lorde: dpkg and judd are the main ones
2723 [19:43:05] <lorde> Okay, let me try to talk to 'judd'
2724 [19:43:06] <greycat> There's also apt, which is basically an older version of dpkg.
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2726 [19:43:19] <lorde> judd: help
2727 [19:43:20] <judd> (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
2728 [19:43:28] <annadane> but try not to spam the channel with it
2729 [19:43:31] <annadane> you can /msg the bots
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2731 [19:43:35] <lorde> k, ty
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2736 [19:44:22] <annadane> you sort of have to hang out long enough to watch other people invoke the bots so you know what factoids exist
2737 [19:44:29] <annadane> there's a few really common ones
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2741 [19:45:44] <annadane> the !judd posted above has a link which has a few judd commands, and dpkg has an interface you can search, also posted above, in !search dpkg
2742 [19:45:47] <karlpinc> I believe dpkg has a factoid on itself. Which leads to the factoid database on a website somewhere.
2743 [19:46:16] <annadane> !tell karlpinc about search dpkg
2744 [19:46:40] <Iridos> yes… you can also look at replaced-url
2745 [19:46:45] <karlpinc> annadane: That never worked really well for me. Mostly, IIRC, due to response length limits.
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2754 [19:47:57] <roue> Hola.
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2756 [19:49:00] <roue> a friend asked me to look at their debian system to fix an apt error. I log in and it looks like a dist-upgrade from 8 to 9 broke in the middle. Now any apt-get install fails. When I try apt -fix-broken install it doesn't resolve.
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2758 [19:49:26] <roue> at the end of a half page of broken package dependencies it says "E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt --fix-broken install' with no packages (or specify a solution)."
2759 [19:49:27] *** Joins: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip )
2760 [19:49:32] <roue> which is what I just tried.
2761 [19:49:43] <roue> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
2762 [19:49:53] <greycat> Read the entire output instead of the last line of the output. In particular, read the BEGINNING of the errors.
2763 [19:50:20] <greycat> Also double-check the sources.list and make sure an apt-get update runs cleanly.
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2766 [19:51:53] <roue> Here it is replaced-url
2767 [19:52:06] <roue> I checked the sources.list, apt-get update runs cleanly.
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2769 [19:52:59] <roue> The owner had several lines for stretch in sources.list, but one for sid for some reason. I took sid out and repeated the apt-get update.
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2787 [19:58:12] <jhutchins_wk> There's yer problem.
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2794 [20:00:31] <PatoMode01> Hello
2795 [20:00:41] <jhutchins_wk> !partial downgrade
2796 [20:00:42] <dpkg> This may or may not work for you, but if you've got nothing to lose then try it: (a) change sources.list (b) aptitude update (c) aptitude and then search for the upgraded packages, hit enter on them, select the correct version (d) do the same for libc6 (e) search for broken packages by pressing "b" and then fix them in the same way (f) once you have no more broken packages, hit 'g'. See <not available>.
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2801 [20:02:47] *** Quits: PatoMode (~PatoMode@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2802 [20:02:53] <PatoMode01> Hello
2803 [20:03:19] <PatoMode01> Hello
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2805 [20:04:18] *** Joins: PatoMode (~PatoMode@replaced-ip )
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2808 [20:04:38] <scwizard> Hello
2809 [20:04:40] <scwizard> I did: apt-cache --no-all-versions show docker-ce
2810 [20:04:50] <annadane_> !ask
2811 [20:04:50] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2812 [20:04:51] <scwizard> it says: Installed-Size: 176867
2813 [20:04:52] <annadane_> PatoMode01, ^
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2815 [20:05:09] <scwizard> Size: 33830998 <- what is the actual size and in what units?
2816 [20:05:19] <greycat> Installed-size is kilobytes
2817 [20:05:42] *** Quits: sim590 (~sim590@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2818 [20:05:44] <scwizard> ok thanks
2819 [20:05:48] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2820 [20:06:02] <scwizard> pretty big package then
2821 [20:06:13] <greycat> I'm guessing "Size:" is the size of the actual .deb file in bytes, since it appears right after the "Filename:" and right before "MD5sum:"
2822 [20:06:24] <scwizard> i'm really sad that upstream doesn't distribute a docker cli package that is just the cli
2823 [20:06:38] <scwizard> i might build docker cli myself tbh
2824 [20:06:51] <PatoMode> anyone can help me install tor?
2825 [20:07:03] <greycat> ,info tor
2826 [20:07:04] <judd> Package tor (net, optional) in stretch/amd64: anonymizing overlay network for TCP. Version: 0.2.9.14-1; Size: 1435.0k; Installed: 4057k; Homepage: replaced-url
2827 [20:07:23] *** Joins: baconicsynergy (~baconicsy@replaced-ip )
2828 [20:07:23] <greycat> So I'm guessing, uh, "apt-get install tor"?
2829 [20:07:23] *** Joins: alpine (~alpine@replaced-ip )
2830 [20:07:54] <bitess> that's only the tor client. do you want the tor browser?
2831 [20:07:59] <PatoMode> I install with a temporial file
2832 [20:08:16] *** Quits: PatoMode01 (~PatoMode@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2833 [20:08:19] <greycat> If you aren't using Debian's packaging of tor, then why are you asking in #debian?
2834 [20:08:32] *** Joins: kchz (~dschulz@replaced-ip )
2835 [20:08:40] <annadane_> for the tor *browser*, you have to enable stretch-backports and put contrib in your sources... but it doesn't _have_ to be installed that way, tor's website also has it
2836 [20:08:46] *** Quits: tables (~user@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2837 [20:08:46] <annadane_> as a tar, i believe
2838 [20:08:53] <roue> hi~.
2839 [20:09:01] <alpine> hi
2840 [20:09:05] * mnuhmnuh Iridos: "w3m replaced-url
2841 [20:09:23] <alpine> Hello Patomode1
2842 [20:10:31] *** Quits: PatoMode (~PatoMode@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2845 [20:11:07] <annadane_> replaced-url
2846 [20:12:00] <scwizard> oh you can just download a tgz of the docker binaries
2847 [20:12:01] <scwizard> replaced-url
2848 [20:12:21] <alpine> guys im wanting some fun in linux, is there anywhere i can further my knowledge?
2849 [20:12:27] <roue>
2850 [20:12:43] <annadane_> !newcomer
2851 [20:12:43] <dpkg> Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: replaced-url
2852 [20:13:15] <greycat> I guess I don't know anything about tor. Why does it have its own "browser"? Don't you just point your regular browser at a proxy on localhost or something?
2853 [20:13:21] <annadane_> "linux", well, there's a lot of resources, see tldp.org for example
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2856 [20:14:03] <scwizard> greycat: there's extra features to help with anonymity in tor browser
2857 [20:14:34] <scwizard> never used it but apparently there's some paranoia about certain things not going through a proxy, or having personally identifiable info or something
2858 [20:14:36] *** Joins: tijeretas__ (~tijeretas@replaced-ip )
2859 [20:14:46] <scwizard> but yes you can use a normal browser and point it through tor
2860 [20:14:51] <greycat> 'k
2861 [20:15:18] <annadane_> and then i guess you also get updates to the tor browser, certain security enhancements etc
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2863 [20:16:03] *** annadane_ is now known as annadane
2864 [20:16:08] <alpine> well he can allways use tails
2865 [20:16:29] <alpine> its a linux-ish tor OS
2866 [20:16:59] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip )
2867 [20:18:19] <Iridos> mnuhmnuh, true… that should be replaced-url
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2869 [20:18:29] *** Joins: export (~export@replaced-ip )
2870 [20:18:31] <alpine> ladies and lads, would you please point me to a chat refering to cyber security?
2871 [20:18:36] *** Joins: sim590 (~sim590@replaced-ip )
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2873 [20:19:19] <annadane> er... well, i guess there's #privacytech on irc.oftc.net
2874 [20:19:23] *** Joins: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip )
2875 [20:19:25] <annadane> i'm sure freenode has tons
2876 [20:19:38] <alpine> in freenode is there any?
2877 [20:19:44] <annadane> #gnu on freenode is sorta related?
2878 [20:19:52] <alpine> is it?
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2880 [20:22:53] <greycat> You could "/msg alis list ..." where ... is whatever keyword you think might help, or ask in #freenode.
2881 [20:23:01] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2882 [20:23:35] <mnuhmnuh> Iridos: factoids works. tx.
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2886 [20:25:41] <mnuhmnuh> doesn't anybody proofread anymore? "#debian's resources are there for your to search ..."
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2888 [20:25:44] <alpine> thanks a lot annadane
2889 [20:26:25] *** Joins: kazo (~kazo@replaced-ip )
2890 [20:27:41] *** Quits: star (~star@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
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2896 [20:31:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1650
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2898 [20:32:17] <scwizard> hey how come replaced-url
2899 [20:32:31] *** Quits: Anarchic (~Anarchic@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
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2901 [20:32:43] <greycat> How would we know?
2902 [20:32:50] <annadane> well, first of all, your link doesn't work
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2905 [20:33:01] <annadane> second, not having systemd doesn't imply no vulnerabilities
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2907 [20:33:10] <scwizard> replaced-url
2908 [20:33:13] <scwizard> doesn't work?
2909 [20:33:17] <greycat> zeroeth of all, it says hub.docker.com which is not a subdomain of debian.org
2910 [20:33:17] <annadane> 404
2911 [20:33:33] <scwizard> greycat: it's the offical debian image which debian maintains :|
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2914 [20:34:12] <greycat> 404 for me as well
2915 [20:34:20] <lorde> Same here
2916 [20:35:11] <scwizard> weird let me try in ignognito
2917 [20:35:43] <mutante> stretch has systemd
2918 [20:35:44] <scwizard> oh the security vuln thingy only shows up if you're logged in
2919 [20:35:45] <scwizard> odd
2920 [20:35:45] *** Joins: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip )
2921 [20:35:58] <scwizard> mutante: the docker image of stretch doesn't as afaik
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2925 [20:36:22] <mutante> hmm..odd that it would be official but also not like the official one. but i dunno
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2927 [20:37:12] <annadane> "a vulnerability" is very vague
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2930 [20:37:42] <greycat> "this URL only works if you're a registered member" is yet another reason for me to continue ignoring Docker
2931 [20:37:55] <scwizard> annadane: specifically this: replaced-url
2932 [20:38:17] <annadane> well, stretch says "vulnerable"
2933 [20:38:34] <annadane> sorry, i'm being stupid again
2934 [20:38:41] <annadane> and don't have the "it's late" excuse this time
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2936 [20:39:29] <scwizard> basically dockerhub scanned the debian image and found systemd, but systemd isn't installed in said image, which made me huh
2937 [20:39:31] <scwizard> it's nbd
2938 [20:40:18] <annadane> (maybe that's a cue to take a nap...)
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2940 [20:40:45] <scwizard> greycat: dockerhub != docker, it's just one of many image registries
2941 [20:42:11] <annadane> well, if you dpkg -l systemd...
2942 [20:42:20] <annadane> and it has it, then it clearly doesn't come as advertised
2943 [20:42:36] <annadane> or dockerhub is flawed, i don't know how it works
2944 [20:43:23] <scwizard> annadane: this is my dpkg -l systemd output: replaced-url
2945 [20:43:37] <scwizard> not sure what that all means
2946 [20:43:46] <annadane> it's not installed
2947 [20:43:53] <scwizard> gotcha
2948 [20:44:10] <annadane> but again i don't know how it works, either the scan is flawed or whatever, it's hard to give a definitive answer
2949 [20:44:14] <annadane> ask docker support?
2950 [20:44:32] *** Quits: Error451 (~R@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2951 [20:44:37] <scwizard> dockerhub support, but yeah maybe during the building process it was installed then uninstalled or something idk
2952 [20:44:57] <mutante> is that a new distro that is "based on Debian"?
2953 [20:44:58] <scwizard> but it def makes me question dockerhub's (admittedly beta) vuln scanning feature
2954 [20:45:06] <scwizard> mutante: it's the debian docker image
2955 [20:45:16] <mutante> scwizard: well, it's not like the normal debian image
2956 [20:45:22] <scwizard> docker images often don't have init systems because they don't need them due to being docker images
2957 [20:45:22] <annadane> do you have to use a docker image as opposed to a VM?
2958 [20:45:31] <mutante> ah, i see
2959 [20:45:31] <annadane> i mean, use whatever you want...
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2961 [20:45:42] <scwizard> they're good at different things
2962 [20:46:20] *** Joins: midolov (~volodim@replaced-ip )
2963 [20:47:00] <mutante> so the options are: a) it doesnt matter because systemd isnt installed or b) it is not relevant whether it's docker or not.. is it really not fixed in stretch
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2969 [20:48:29] <greycat> You could test it and see if it's fixed. I'm not in the mood to bother right now.
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2974 [20:49:29] <greycat> I mean, clearly it only affects you if you have usernames that begin with a digit, and if you've written your own unit files, and one of those unit files tries to use one of those digit-starting user names.
2975 [20:49:39] <greycat> That's a lot of conditions, many of which are HIGHLY unusual.
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2979 [20:50:15] <annadane> security vulns these days are basically approaching "this allows a malicious attacker under very obscure circumstances to exploit highly obscure thing 3 people in the world know about"
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2982 [20:51:17] <greycat> Usernames that start with a digit probably break a whole lot of other things too.
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2985 [20:51:55] <greycat> I imagine there's a substantial body of code that checks whether an argument string is a username or a UID by checking isdigit(*argv[1]);
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2990 [20:53:38] <lorde> Man, that github issue is old
2991 [20:53:41] *** Joins: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip )
2992 [20:53:44] <lorde> June 2017
2993 [20:54:27] <lorde> I didn't know that Linux usernames must not start from a number
2994 [20:54:55] <greycat> If they "must not", then that security vulnerability is moot.
2995 [20:55:02] *** Quits: patterson (patterson@replaced-ip ) ()
2996 [20:55:04] <greycat> I think it is only "should not".
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3003 [20:57:18] <lorde> greycat: yeah, 'useradd' has just let me create a user named '10rd3'
3004 [20:57:35] <greycat> can you chown files to it?
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3008 [20:58:33] <lorde> -rw-r--r-- 1 10rd3 10rd3 2534 May 23 19:36 bbb
3009 [20:58:38] <lorde> Yeah, I can
3010 [20:59:06] <greycat> I'm a bit surprised it worked, but cool. Next thing I'd test would be find . -user 10rd3
3011 [20:59:30] <greycat> ps can also be tested, etc.
3012 [20:59:39] <lorde> greycat: come on man, get yourself a bash prompt
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3014 [21:00:22] <scwizard> are there plans to enforce https for apt ever?
3015 [21:00:24] <scwizard> since this is 2018?
3016 [21:00:34] <scwizard> stretch is still http by default
3017 [21:00:39] <greycat> Stop working at places that don't let you get Debian packages.
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3019 [21:00:57] *** Quits: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3020 [21:01:26] <annadane> replaced-url
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3025 [21:02:26] <scwizard> ahh neat
3026 [21:02:40] *** Quits: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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3028 [21:02:46] <lorde> Ah my gawd, someone even made a web page about this
3029 [21:02:54] <scwizard> i don't agree but
3030 [21:03:04] <greycat> ironically, the web page in question uses https
3031 [21:03:10] *** Quits: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3032 [21:03:11] <scwizard> yeah there's just zero reason not to use https
3033 [21:03:13] *** Joins: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip )
3034 [21:03:16] <scwizard> even if the security is identical
3035 [21:03:21] <lorde> But it's a web page, and not apt mirror
3036 [21:03:38] <greycat> scwizard: there's >0 reason not to change, and that reason is "change is work"
3037 [21:03:44] <scwizard> good point!
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3042 [21:04:22] <greycat> The only *justifiable* reason you'd want apt to use https is "my workplace's HTTP proxy blocks everything, but HTTPS works", to which see my prior answer.
3043 [21:04:25] <annadane> protip: it's written by the current debian project leader
3044 [21:04:34] <annadane> "i don't agree"... you're entitled to your opinion, but...
3045 [21:06:31] <KwayTeow> Hello. i have problem with SSH connection with Debian KDE. I have put the key in ~/.ssh but it refuses connection with error message "PubKey Denied" i didn't have this problem with GNOME (Tried live session, copied the key and i'm able connect). What am i missing? Thanks in advance
3046 [21:06:31] <greycat> KwayTeow: How did you generate the key pair? Did you put the public key on the server into the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file? Are all the ownerships and permissions correct?
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3050 [21:08:22] <jhutchins_wk> scwizard: https does add additional overhead for the server (and the clients), and the server's already heavily loaded.
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3053 [21:08:39] <scwizard> eh
3054 [21:08:42] <scwizard> once upon a time maybe
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3058 [21:09:19] <scwizard> tbh i think it's kinda stubbornness, but it's debian style stubbornness so i get it
3059 [21:09:52] <jhutchins_wk> scwizard: No, it's a reasoned decision.
3060 [21:10:00] <scwizard> yes! it is
3061 [21:10:31] <scwizard> https is a closed system
3062 [21:10:37] <scwizard> the sort that debian doesn't trust
3063 [21:10:46] <greycat> *plonk*
3064 [21:10:58] <lorde> scwizard: how is https a closed system?
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3066 [21:11:05] <KwayTeow> greycat: I generated from previous Debian GNOME installation. It seems only under KDE that the "PubKey denied" appear. I tried Debian GNOME live and copy the key to ~/.ssh and i am able to connect. I am less than a year using Linux so i'm still confuse.
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3069 [21:11:21] <scwizard> lorde: read the section about overly trusting cas idk
3070 [21:11:21] <scwizard> replaced-url
3071 [21:11:26] <scwizard> i guess i prhased that wrong
3072 [21:11:46] <greycat> KwayTeow: You keep saying "copy the key to ~/.ssh" -- WHICH key are you copying, to which machine, into what filename?
3073 [21:11:51] *** Joins: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip )
3074 [21:12:01] <greycat> A key pair is two keys -- public and private.
3075 [21:12:12] <annadane> scwizard, in any event, this is off topic for this channel, bring it up with the author(s) if you disagree
3076 [21:12:16] <greycat> IDEALLY the private key should never be copied anywhere. It should be generated on the client where it will be used, and then never touched.
3077 [21:12:21] <annadane> or discuss it in debian-user@lists.debian.org
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3079 [21:12:39] <greycat> The public key must be copied onto the server into the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file (it's a text file, you can just paste the key onto the end of it).
3080 [21:12:45] <scwizard> don't worry i won't spam the list with my nonsense lol
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3083 [21:12:57] <annadane> incidentally there are tor addresses for some mirrors if you really really care
3084 [21:12:58] <greycat> All the permissions and ownerships must be CORRECT, which means "NO GROUP WRITE, NO OTHER WRITE".
3085 [21:12:59] *** Quits: olegfusion (~olegfusio@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3086 [21:14:12] <michael2> Im following the wiki guide for "Manually copying installer files to installer USB - the flexible way" and Im at this point here:
3087 [21:14:24] <michael2> replaced-url
3088 [21:14:29] <scwizard> there's a env var you can export
3089 [21:14:29] *** Joins: tvm (~tvm@replaced-ip )
3090 [21:14:35] <scwizard> to get debugging output from ssh
3091 [21:14:37] <KwayTeow> greycat: i copied them to (Debian KDE) local machine. Also ssh-copy-id to remote. But still get the error.
3092 [21:14:41] <michael2> I have syslinux installed and setup to start the kernel
3093 [21:14:42] <scwizard> helps a lot with those file permission oopsies
3094 [21:14:53] *** Joins: wcfields (~wcfields@replaced-ip )
3095 [21:14:53] <michael2> but I dont understand how the kernel then starts the debian installer and what files I need to have in the boot directory which actually comprise the installer?
3096 [21:14:56] <jhutchins_wk> I think some people just don't - maybe can't - comprehend the scope and scale of a project like maintaining a global mirroring system for over 50,000 packages.
3097 [21:15:11] <michael2> in a normal/full OS the kernel starts pid 1. I assume you either replace pid1 with the debian installer or you explicitly set the kernel into a "boot" mode - possilbly as a command line parameter?
3098 [21:15:16] <greycat> KwayTeow: I don't know what you're doing and you keep REFUSING TO TELL US. So just start over. Create a new key pair on the client machine, and copy the pub key to the server, and check all the FUCKING PERMISSIONS.
3099 [21:15:22] <greycat> replaced-url
3100 [21:15:28] *** Quits: winem_ (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3101 [21:16:10] <annadane> you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, i won't ever tell you to stop employing the tools of critical thinking, but when the debian project has a stated commitment to security and privacy (and has a social contract to prove it) and the project leader has a website devoted to the subject, it's going to take more than just a simple disagreement to sway that particular approach
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3104 [21:18:14] <jhutchins_wk> KwayTeow: Use ssh-copy-id
3105 [21:18:33] *** Joins: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip )
3106 [21:18:43] <KwayTeow> greycat: i can connect if using ssh -i mykey user:host but without pointing the key i get PubKey denied, and this not happening if i use debian gnome. This is what i'd like to know what i am doing wrong.
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3110 [21:19:49] <jhutchins_wk> KwayTeow: You may want to try -vvv to get a more verbose account of why the key is refused.
3111 [21:19:58] <bitess> KwayTeow: is that because your key is named something other than ~/.ssh/id_rsa ?
3112 [21:20:12] <greycat> KwayTeow: rename the key to the default name, then. Or load the key into your ssh-agent. Or fix any of the other things you're doing wrong that you keep refusing to tell us.
3113 [21:20:32] <jhutchins_wk> gnome doesn't do ssh.
3114 [21:20:37] <mutante> KwayTeow: ssh-add /path/to/key and then try again
3115 [21:20:42] <greycat> GNOME has a notorious ssh-agent of its own, though
3116 [21:20:56] <greycat> Riddled with problems, just like you would expect from everything about GNOME.
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3121 [21:23:44] <michael2> does anyone know how - on a bootable USB - the kernel is started so that it starts the debian installer (and not pid 1 like it usually would)
3122 [21:24:20] *** Quits: giricz81 (~giricz81@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3123 [21:25:14] <KwayTeow> Ok let me try with your suggestion. And yes i have it named with other than default id_rsa, let me also rename it back to default.
3124 [21:25:14] *** Joins: toorop (~toorop@replaced-ip )
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3128 [21:26:57] <karlpinc> What would cause this output, The following packages will be upgraded:
3129 [21:26:57] <karlpinc> gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 libpackagekit-glib2-18 libprocps6 packagekit packagekit-tools procps
3130 [21:26:57] <karlpinc> 6 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
3131 [21:26:57] <karlpinc> Need to get 1,049 kB of archives. After unpacking 4,096 B will be used.
3132 [21:27:01] <karlpinc> (Reading database ...
3133 [21:27:01] *** karlpinc was kicked by debhelper (flood)
3134 [21:27:25] <greycat> Oooh! Oooh! I know! It was an apt-get comand!
3135 [21:28:09] *** Joins: erilu__ (~erilu@replaced-ip )
3136 [21:28:10] *** Quits: mlkkk (~mlkkk@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3137 [21:28:14] <bitess> heh
3138 [21:28:25] <erilu__> heh
3139 [21:29:33] <KwayTeow> jhutchins_wk , bitess , greycat thank you renaming it to default solve it. I spent whole night browsing the internet to find the fix but talking to you guys can solve the problem in less than 5 minutes. xie xie
3140 [21:29:34] *** Joins: karlpinc (~user@replaced-ip )
3141 [21:29:42] <jhutchins_wk> Putty is also available for gnome/linux.
3142 [21:29:55] <erilu__> how can i quit vim
3143 [21:29:59] <karlpinc> Ugh. Sorry. Didn't know what was in my paste buffer. Grrr.
3144 [21:30:15] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3145 [21:30:22] <greycat> erilu__: ESC : q ! ENTER
3146 [21:30:25] *** Joins: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip )
3147 [21:30:33] <erilu__> ok
3148 [21:30:37] <greycat> erilu__: assuming you want to discard any changes
3149 [21:30:40] *** Joins: Modeuse (~kvirc@replaced-ip )
3150 [21:30:46] *** Joins: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip )
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3152 [21:30:56] <jhutchins_wk> KwayTeow: If you start a session with -vvv you'll see the process that caused that to fail.
3153 [21:30:59] <bitess> michael2: well, grub starts the kernel. you can mount an iso and look inside. don't know what happens then.
3154 [21:31:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1643
3155 [21:31:03] <erilu__> i just lost evrything
3156 [21:31:16] <greycat> well, :q! exits without saving
3157 [21:31:17] <karlpinc> What would cause the output replaced-url
3158 [21:31:32] <KwayTeow> jhutchins_wk: ok. i'll note that.
3159 [21:31:36] *** Quits: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3160 [21:31:55] <erilu__> i was doing a flappy bird clone in Java and i have to restart everything because of you
3161 [21:32:21] <jhutchins_wk> erilu__: No, because you ran something without reading the docs first.
3162 [21:32:27] <jim> karlpinc, as you might already know, you can use this: you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
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3164 [21:32:34] <michael2> bitess: I dont think grub starts the kernel in the bootable USB's, I think isolinux is used, but good idea about looking at how the debian project setup their USB though.
3165 [21:32:37] <jhutchins_wk> erilu__: You asked how to quit, he told you.
3166 [21:32:43] <erilu__> how can i read the docs if i can't exit vim
3167 [21:32:45] <jhutchins_wk> erilu__: You did not ask how to save and exit.
3168 [21:32:58] <karlpinc> The "Error: Timeout was reached" after Setting up... is weird.
3169 [21:33:10] *** Quits: tvm (~tvm@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3170 [21:33:18] <jhutchins_wk> erilu__: You read them BEFORE you start vim, or even WHEN you start vim without a file name.
3171 [21:33:33] <greycat> If you don't even know how to save your work in vim, chances are you FUCKED UP the text, so you probably want to get the hell out without saving.
3172 [21:33:42] <jim> erilu__, maybe vim will let you ctrl-z?
3173 [21:33:50] <greycat> Or you open another terminal.
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3175 [21:34:21] <erilu__> i'm going to use emacs now it's more user friendly and i like stallman he is a good person
3176 [21:34:25] <karlpinc> erilu__: Or choose another editor. Or type "ctrl-alt-fN" and switch to another virtual console even.
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3179 [21:34:35] <lorde> erilu__: high five, brother
3180 [21:35:07] <jim> erilu__, emacs definitely will let you ctrl-z (do you know what that does?
3181 [21:35:09] <jim> )
3182 [21:35:12] *** Joins: xt233 (~xenotheme@replaced-ip )
3183 [21:35:18] <greycat> vim does not suppress ctrl-z either
3184 [21:35:36] <erilu__> i can just press u on vim
3185 [21:35:42] <jim> I just didn't know whether it did or not
3186 [21:35:43] <karlpinc> erilu__: Everybody has their own editor choice. You will join a tribe when you choose anything. Be sure to install emacs25-common-non-dfsg package (in non-free) so you get the manual. Then follow at least the first little bit of the tutorial.
3187 [21:35:47] <lorde> jim: places it into background?
3188 [21:35:49] *** Joins: RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3189 [21:36:25] <lorde> karlpinc: are you for real?
3190 [21:36:35] <greycat> If you're going to advise people on Ctrl-Z, make sure they have a rudimentary understanding of what job control is, and how to get the program(s) back into the foreground.
3191 [21:36:39] <jim> lorde, yep :) and, I'm wondering if -he- knows that, and if not, I was gonna show him
3192 [21:36:57] <erilu__> i'm using arch btw
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3194 [21:37:12] <greycat> lorde: technically, it stops the job. To make it run in the background, you have to use the bg command.
3195 [21:37:27] <greycat> Not that a visual text editor can run in the background, of course.
3196 [21:37:40] <lorde> greycat: okay, thx. I prefer GNU screen if I need multiple programs running though
3197 [21:37:52] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3198 [21:37:52] <erilu__> greycat, it's not "fg" instead of bg ?
3199 [21:37:52] *** Quits: discovered (~discovere@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3200 [21:37:59] <jim> erilu__, oh ok, you might find good info on #archlinux (I think that's it)
3201 [21:38:06] *** Joins: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip )
3202 [21:38:12] <greycat> Yeah, very few people use shell job control these days. It's so much easier just to open multiple terminals.
3203 [21:38:31] <karlpinc> greycat: I use it all the time. Multiple terminals means I need to reach for the mouse.
3204 [21:38:32] <jelly> except when your shells don't share history
3205 [21:38:34] <greycat> erilu__: fg brings the job back to the foreground. bg sets it running in the background, if possible.
3206 [21:38:45] <erilu__> og ok
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3209 [21:38:54] <jim> erilu__, if you want to use debian (install it and all that), we can show you how you can install it so that both linuxes dual boot
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3211 [21:39:26] <greycat> karlpinc: non-mouse people can use tmux or screen, or the Linux virtual consoles
3212 [21:39:40] <greycat> But if you like job control, great.
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3215 [21:40:28] <karlpinc> greycat: It's always there....
3216 [21:40:40] <greycat> a definite plus
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3218 [21:41:39] <erilu__> jim, i will install debian on my first thinkpad who is coming next week so don't worry
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3244 [21:54:52] <jim> erilu__, you might want to use the netinstall image that comes with additional firmware
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3247 [21:58:15] <scwizard> hmmmm, is there someway I can make wget not silent but like
3248 [21:58:16] <scwizard> quieter?
3249 [21:58:46] <scwizard> rather than 1 line per MB I want one dot per MB
3250 [21:58:52] <scwizard> basically its progress bar is tuned for slow internet
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3252 [21:59:30] <scwizard> oh readin the man now
3253 [21:59:34] <scwizard> there's a lot of config for that
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3255 [21:59:53] <annadane> wget -q?
3256 [22:00:11] *** Quits: uniqdom (~mcastillo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3257 [22:00:12] <annadane> that shuts off all output entirely
3258 [22:00:16] <scwizard> With the default style each dot represents 1K hahaha
3259 [22:00:21] <scwizard> yeah that's pretty silly
3260 [22:00:25] <scwizard> fortunately you can change it
3261 [22:00:26] <lennox> could use --report-speed=type
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3264 [22:00:55] <lennox> ah no you cant never actually read that
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3266 [22:01:03] <lennox> lol the only accepted type is bits, disregard.
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3276 [22:03:16] <lennox> try wget --progress=dot
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3278 [22:03:26] <Thedarkb-X40> wget makes sense on my 1mbps DSL
3279 [22:04:20] <scwizard> yeah
3280 [22:04:23] <scwizard> wget --progress=dot:giga $url
3281 [22:04:35] *** Quits: Freddrickk (~fred@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3282 [22:04:41] <scwizard> that works a lot better for good internet
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3284 [22:05:06] <scwizard> Thedarkb-X40: my condolences :( altho tbf wget isn't running on my laptop but on a aws instance
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3287 [22:05:29] <Thedarkb-X40> That's why I can make do with this old Centrino laptop
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3292 [22:06:08] <Thedarkb-X40> When I load a web page, the connection is the bottleneck rather than the processor.
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3295 [22:07:50] <scwizard> sounds like you're being very smart by not trying to use windows 10 or something on it
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3298 [22:08:16] <scwizard> people throw out so much perfectly good hardware because it can't run the latest bloated OS
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3301 [22:08:38] <scwizard> *latest bloated propitiatory OS
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3314 [22:10:10] <Thedarkb-X40> scwizard, Lubuntu unfortunately.
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3317 [22:10:26] <Thedarkb-X40> For some reason the WiFi card doesn't agree with Debian.
3318 [22:10:51] *** Joins: Error451 (~R@replaced-ip )
3319 [22:11:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1637
3320 [22:11:03] <lennox> if it works in lubuntu it will work in debian, just have to load the firmware
3321 [22:11:23] <Thedarkb-X40> I DID load the firmware.
3322 [22:11:32] <Thedarkb-X40> It just kept spitting out "link not ready"
3323 [22:11:45] *** Quits: tripkin (~tripkin@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3324 [22:11:46] <lennox> you did something wrong then
3325 [22:11:55] *** Quits: stu_meat (~stu_meat@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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3327 [22:12:04] <Thedarkb-X40> Tell me what.
3328 [22:12:09] *** Joins: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip )
3329 [22:12:16] <Thedarkb-X40> No one in here could at the time.
3330 [22:12:34] <lennox> go into your setup and see which modules are loaded
3331 [22:12:47] <Thedarkb-X40> ipw2200 was loaded.
3332 [22:13:01] <Thedarkb-X40> It's a 2200BG Calexico2 card.
3333 [22:13:34] *** Joins: roshanavand (~mos@replaced-ip )
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3342 [22:18:50] <Thedarkb-X40> The WiFi card also works in TinyCore Linux.
3343 [22:20:26] *** Joins: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip )
3344 [22:21:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1643
3345 [22:21:12] <rvoid> I have some troubles with WiFi setup on my machine. My WiFi card driver - iwlwifi. I use wpa_supplicant. Card started with "ip link set wlp2s0 up". ip link show output - termbin.com/chsx9. But WiFi led indicates, that card works. My /etc/network/interfaces - termbin.com/ghf2. Where did I go wrong?
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3348 [22:21:42] <hldw> hello, is there an unstable-updates repository like for stable and testing?
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3352 [22:21:57] <annadane> no
3353 [22:22:11] <greycat> !testing security
3354 [22:22:12] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See replaced-url
3355 [22:22:14] *** NullTerm_ is now known as NullTerminator
3356 [22:22:15] <hldw> annadane: as goes for unstable-security so, right?
3357 [22:22:18] <annadane> (i wasn't even aware there was one for testing...)
3358 [22:22:27] <greycat> There is not.
3359 [22:22:33] <hldw> thank you greycat
3360 [22:22:34] <greycat> Testing has the WORST security of all.
3361 [22:22:38] <annadane> ^
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3363 [22:23:14] <annadane> stable is the most supported, but security fixes are quick in unstable as well (faster than stable, though this is partially confirmation bias for a variety of reasons)... testing is a no man's land of delayed everything
3364 [22:23:22] <greycat> With unstable, you just get whatever the maintainer uploads, whenever she/he uploads it.
3365 [22:23:39] <greycat> Security updates are usually faster in stable than in unstable.
3366 [22:23:40] <Thedarkb-X40> rvoid, any dmesgs from the driver?
3367 [22:23:44] <greycat> Not always, but usually.
3368 [22:23:48] <annadane> oh, it's possible
3369 [22:23:54] <annadane> i should't pass off my observation as fact
3370 [22:23:56] <hldw> I see
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3372 [22:24:41] *** Quits: domovoy_ (~domovoy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3373 [22:24:41] <Thedarkb-X40> Also, do rfkill list
3374 [22:25:37] *** Quits: fnstudio (~fabio@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3375 [22:26:20] <hldw> if I'm adding the unstable repository, as I need a package from there that is not available yet in stable nor testing, then set the APT default to stable and use APT::Default-Release "stable"; All my normal install (apt install foo) will be from stable only right?
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3378 [22:27:00] <greycat> !don't break debian
3379 [22:27:00] <dpkg> dont break debian is, like, replaced-url
3380 [22:27:04] <greycat> hldw: DANGER! STOP!
3381 [22:27:08] <annadane> i don't think that will protect you from dragging in unwanted dependencies, it depends on the package
3382 [22:27:17] <hldw> !
3383 [22:27:21] <annadane> and by unwanted, i mean system breaking, not just wasted space
3384 [22:28:03] <annadane> that don't break debian article has a section on "how to install software not available in debian stable"
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3387 [22:28:09] <annadane> what do you need?
3388 [22:28:28] <hldw> i need python3-neovim
3389 [22:28:56] <greycat> judd checkbackport python3-neovim
3390 [22:28:57] <judd> Backporting package python3-neovim in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: neovim (>= 0.2.1).
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3393 [22:29:37] <greycat> judd checkbackport neovim
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3395 [22:29:38] <judd> Backporting package neovim in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: lua-nvim (>= 0.0.1-26-1~) [!hurd-i386] <!nocheck>.
3396 [22:29:44] <greycat> Looks like a horrible idea.
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3399 [22:30:19] <annadane> that said, you can likely get the latest neovim and associated gadgets from their website (as a tar, don't mess with .deb files)
3400 [22:30:36] <annadane> or, run a VM like virt-manager with sid in it and use that for neovim
3401 [22:30:40] <rvoid> Thedarkb-X40: dmesg log - termbin.com/d4xi
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3405 [22:31:51] <Thedarkb-X40> I've got nothing
3406 [22:31:52] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
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3408 [22:32:39] <annadane> it *may* be possible to get the newest neovim, extract it to a folder, and tell neovim to use the python3-neovim you downloaded from debian's site, i have no idea how well that works, though
3409 [22:32:49] <annadane> as a plugin
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3412 [22:32:52] <JustASlacker> put it in a docker
3413 [22:32:53] <JustASlacker> :P
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3417 [22:33:39] <rvoid> Thedarkb-X40: You cant open link or logs are useless?
3418 [22:33:51] *** Quits: dysfigured (~dysfigure@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3419 [22:33:55] <Thedarkb-X40> Nah, I'm useless :P
3420 [22:34:13] <rvoid> 3:
3421 [22:34:35] <hldw> annadane: i don't think the release packages contain the languages support, you have to download them separately
3422 [22:34:41] <annadane> (or of course, neovim's site may have a plugin for it natively)
3423 [22:34:49] <annadane> (which, it probably does)
3424 [22:34:58] <annadane> yeah, maybe; i don't know too much about it
3425 [22:35:09] <annadane> simplest thing it to run sid in a VM, in my opinion
3426 [22:35:13] <annadane> s/it/is
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3429 [22:35:50] <hldw> or switch to emacs :)
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3431 [22:36:25] *** Parts: AndreasLutro (~andreas@replaced-ip ) ()
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3434 [22:37:31] <annadane> or spacemacs, it has vim style editing
3435 [22:37:40] <annadane> that's an entirely different discussion though
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3441 [22:41:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1633
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3443 [22:42:05] <hldw> yes, thanks for the help guys!
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3470 [22:57:03] <jelly> it's as much "should not" as "hey let's put \n and * into file names" just to see how random software copes with it
3471 [22:57:16] <jelly> oops, scrolled back
3472 [22:57:20] *** Quits: Guest93655 (~Guest9365@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Guest93655)
3473 [22:57:46] <annadane> bad jelly.
3474 [22:57:51] <greycat> There's at least one person in #bash who keeps a directory full of such evil filenames for testing purposes.
3475 [22:58:16] *** Quits: karmavil (uid261628@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3476 [22:58:18] <greycat> I've even suggested a few, which he gleefully added.
3477 [22:58:45] *** Joins: CaptainN (zelda@replaced-ip )
3478 [22:58:50] <jelly> they should keep a user "0notroot" as well, then
3479 [22:59:02] <lorde> jelly: isn't '/' the only type-able character that's not allowed in file names?
3480 [22:59:24] <greycat> NUL is technically typable (ctrl-2)
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3483 [22:59:39] <jelly> I always used ctrl-space for that one
3484 [23:00:01] <greycat> oh, neat
3485 [23:00:04] <lorde> NUL as in '\000'?
3486 [23:00:12] <greycat> yes, NUL as in ASCII character 00
3487 [23:00:19] <greycat> you can type it with Ctrl-2 or Ctrl-Space
3488 [23:00:21] <lorde> That's the one
3489 [23:00:49] *** Quits: toorop (~toorop@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3490 [23:00:50] <jelly> touch '^@'
3491 [23:00:53] *** Joins: fnstudio (~fabio@replaced-ip )
3492 [23:00:55] <jelly> touch: cannot touch '': No such file or directory
3493 [23:01:02] <greycat> And yes, NUL is not permissible in filenames, because it's the C string terminator.
3494 [23:01:22] *** Quits: Murii_ (~vlad@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3495 [23:01:23] <jelly> interesting, wonder if the shell is faulty or the syscall
3496 [23:01:34] <Thedarkb-X40> You can't name give a file on Windows the same name as a block device
3497 [23:01:37] <greycat> What makes you think anything is faulty?
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3500 [23:01:50] <mutante> when i have trouble deleting one of those weird file names in bash.. then i fire up "ytree", a TUI.. because you can then just use cursor keys to move to the file and hit delete
3501 [23:02:10] <Thedarkb-X40> On old versions of Windows, if you did "C:\<blockdevice>\<blockdevice>", you'd get a lovely kernel area BSOT
3502 [23:02:12] <NickyP> I needed gcc-5 for my project. It is only available in testing. I put testing and /etc/apt/sources.list and updated to it and installed gcc-5. That action also carried an glibc update that I did not need. How can I revert glibc?
3503 [23:02:13] <Thedarkb-X40> BSOD*
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3505 [23:02:34] <annadane> you can revert it by doing a complete reinstall
3506 [23:02:39] <greycat> NickyP: You're fucked.
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3508 [23:02:41] <greycat> !don
3509 [23:02:41] <annadane> as now you're out of luck and have broken the system, likely
3510 [23:02:44] <greycat> !don't break debian
3511 [23:02:45] <dpkg> i heard dont break debian is replaced-url
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3513 [23:03:08] <annadane> or fully upgrade to testing and don't ever do things like that again
3514 [23:03:14] <jelly> not technically faulty as "want to pass \0 in a file name for creat() to see what happens
3515 [23:03:21] <jelly> but... C
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3517 [23:03:30] <Thedarkb-X40> I C what you did there.
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3520 [23:04:09] <annadane> NickyP, in future, if you truly do need a newer gcc, use a virtual machine to install testing/sid/whatever you need and do your computing in there
3521 [23:04:15] <lorde> Wikipedia says that on ext{3,4} it's anything but \000 and '/'
3522 [23:04:21] <annadane> (not that gcc 5 is "newer")
3523 [23:04:31] <jelly> dpkg, tell NickyP about partial downgrade
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3526 [23:04:49] <BenLubar> Does anyone know of a package that contains a file following this spec that I can use to test my code? replaced-url
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3528 [23:05:18] <BenLubar> (so far I checked git and then gave up)
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3530 [23:05:29] <annadane> lintian...?
3531 [23:05:52] <jelly> BenLubar, doc-base
3532 [23:06:07] <annadane> they said "file" though
3533 [23:06:12] <annadane> yeah, what jelly said
3534 [23:06:34] <BenLubar> file as in a file with the path ./copyright in the control part of the deb file
3535 [23:06:56] <BenLubar> yay, both lintian and doc-base are giving me null pointer dereferences in my code
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