Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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2[00:01:25] <jim> somiaj, anyway I accidently screwed up and installed the git iproute2 on the machine that's pulling gateway duty for my personal net... so I decided to reboot that box (with the new ip), and it came up just fine... if this success report were to somehow get to the iproute2 maints, who knows, that might be a good thing :)
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7[00:04:37] <c|oner> I tried to add a 2nd static to my ethernet card via network manager, it doesn't seem to do anything
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33[00:25:58] <rhizome> so, i'm lost with lvm/md. I have: lv (lvol0) > vg (Data) > pv (/dev/md0) > /dev/sdd (4T); I also have /dev/md1 > /dev/sdb1 (3T), outside of the LV. note the whole-disk "sdd" for md0.
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36[00:27:31] <rhizome> i would like to either shrink md0 and add the 3T to it, or add the 4T to the 3T and replace md0 with md1 in the VG. All as raid1
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39[00:27:50] <rhizome> perhaps unsurprisingly, SO doesn't have a readymade question for this
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43[00:29:46] <at0m> rhizome: why did you think adding so many layers would be better? LVM, raid,..
44[00:30:22] <rhizome> it's recommended by various sources that seem credible
45[00:30:24] <at0m> haven't used either, so i probably can't help. havent run into any of these problems
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47[00:30:38] <rhizome> if you haven't used them, probably not.
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78[00:55:02] <jim> c|oner, what is it you want this second IP to connect to?
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85[00:57:21] <jim> rhizome, I dunno your setup, but most likely what you want to do, is one of two things: either create a raid with redundancy (where you can take one of four (say) drives out of service, have the array recover from that, and then add the new drive to the array
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94[00:58:09] <jim> either that, or just put PVs on drives (but then you wouldn't have the redundancy offered by the raid)
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114[01:04:12] <ryouma> those fs layers are gerat for when they are great. but they are not anything i weould recommend to just anybody just for the sake of it. you uise them ohnly if you need them.
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116[01:05:00] <ryouma> i go out of my way -- full fs copies and so on -- to not deal with all the corner cases of those layers
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118[01:05:17] <ryouma> booting and stuff have special exceptions
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143[01:13:38] <rhizome> jim: thanks, i decided to just blow away the larger drive, which i'll add to the md and maybe LV and be done with it. it was too kooky.
144[01:13:49] <rhizome> btw, how long should 4T take to dd
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166[01:24:58] <VeryStableGenius> you shot the drive with a gunn?
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169[01:25:42] <jim> 4t? I have no clue :)
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207[01:53:24] <kot> depends on the write speed of the target media, but i think i's safe to say "a long time".
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280[02:47:41] <JLprim> hello need some help installing a font from 1001 fonts.com i have downloaded it and unziped the file what do i do next so it shows up in my fonts on all programs
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283[02:50:19] <VeryStableGenius> JLprim, put it in ~/.fonts
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287[02:52:08] <JLprim> @verystablegenius i dont have that file i have a file that says .fonts.conf and i can find others if i search fonts buts non that say that
288[02:53:26] <JLprim> when i search there is a fonts and a fontsy and oblique-fonts folders
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290[02:53:40] <`Koyaanisqatsi> JLprim, you create it
291[02:53:41] <mandeep> JLprim: create the folder
292[02:54:03] <JLprim> make it just in the home folder
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295[02:54:16] <mandeep> JLprim: yes
296[02:54:16] <JLprim> ecactly like ~/.fonts
297[02:54:29] <mandeep> JLprim: ~ is the home directory
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299[02:54:45] <JLprim> oh ok so just name it fonts then
300[02:54:52] <mandeep> .fonts
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302[02:55:09] <JLprim> ok thanks ill try it thanks
303[02:55:36] <mandeep> afterwards you will probably have to run fc-cache
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305[02:55:44] <JLprim> will i need to restart comp or just programs
306[02:56:04] <mandeep> JLprim: in a terminal run fc-cache -f
307[02:57:59] <JLprim> command not found
308[02:59:13] <`Koyaanisqatsi> you only need to run fc-cache when installing in the root folders for all users
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310[03:00:01] <JLprim> ok so they should show up now then corrector do i need to restart computer or nanything sorry im a lamen when it comes to this stuff
311[03:00:18] <`Koyaanisqatsi> maybe just logging out if it's for DE use
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313[03:00:40] <JLprim> de use?
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315[03:01:12] <`Koyaanisqatsi> desktop environment
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318[03:03:50] <JLprim> ok ill log out and back in
319[03:03:58] <awal1> JLprim, not a good idea installing any 3d party software
320[03:04:14] <awal1> debian have a bunch of fonts
321[03:04:32] <JLprim> well unfortunatly dabian fonts are crap
322[03:04:40] <JLprim> well the ones on mine anyway
323[03:04:42] <awal1> 'roboto' are, for example very nice and polished
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328[03:07:06] <JLprim> @awal1 where does one get those from
329[03:07:32] <awal1> they are from google/android
330[03:07:39] <awal1> , v fonts-roboto
331[03:07:40] <judd> Package: fonts-roboto on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 1:4.3-3~bpo70+1; jessie: 1:4.4.4r2-6; buster: 2:0~20160106-2; sid: 2:0~20160106-2; stretch: 2:0~20160106-2
332[03:08:03] <Unit193> ,fonts-noto-mono
333[03:08:07] <Unit193> ,v fonts-noto-mono
334[03:08:08] <judd> Package: fonts-noto-mono on amd64 -- stretch: 20161116-1; buster: 20171026-2; sid: 20171026-2
335[03:08:28] <awal1> available in debian repos, JLprim
336[03:08:57] <JLprim> ok thanks ill look into it
337[03:09:11] <awal1> JLprim what do you have as system fonts?
338[03:09:18] <awal1> cat /etc/default/console-setup
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341[03:09:25] <awal1> fixed , I guess
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343[03:09:30] <JLprim> in the mean time thanks guys for helping fonts are where they should be and able to use them after i loged out and in again
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345[03:10:14] <JLprim> yea for some reason my dabian only had very basic and crappy fonts
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347[03:10:34] <JLprim> but then again its not using nautius eaither so not sure whats up with it
348[03:10:44] <JLprim> nautilus
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367[03:19:26] <rpifan> my x servers takes a long time to load
368[03:19:33] <rpifan> it shows the usual black screen
369[03:19:37] <rpifan> with starting x
370[03:19:42] <rpifan> then it just sits there for severla minutes
371[03:19:45] <rpifan> cant seem to find any reason for it
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374[03:20:52] <dvs> rpifan, what do the messages say before the pause?
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377[03:22:12] <rpifan> i dont remember at the moment
378[03:22:19] <rpifan> but there isnt any kind of error
379[03:22:24] <rpifan> is there way to look at it dmesg
380[03:22:26] <rpifan> or the like?
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393[03:30:50] <rhizome> do i even need to partition a new drive when adding it to an md raid1?
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396[03:33:10] <rhizome> nevermind, one big partition seems to work
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398[03:33:57] <rhizome> my long personal nightmare is over
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406[03:38:12] <rhizome> i'm thinking if i just have a raid1 and no more case space for more drives, LVM isn't necessary
407[03:40:29] <dvs> ??? I think LVM and RAID1 are at odds with each other.
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412[03:44:58] <rhizome> it just lets you smoosh things together
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415[03:47:07] <rhizome> lvm lets you do things like mirror one half of one disk with half of another disk, then create another mirror with the other halves.
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419[03:50:37] <lone-wolf> I've removed wireshark from /usr/bin/wireshark and now I need to put it in autorun, what do I do?
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422[03:53:38] <themill> lone-wolf: what, precisely, do you mean by you've "removed wireshark from /usr/bin/wireshark "
423[03:55:24] <lone-wolf> themill: I've removed / usr / bin / wireshark unintentionally and now when I type wireshark in the terminal it does not open.
424[03:56:15] <themill> ah, so reinstalling the relevant package would be enough (find out which one with dpkg -S /usr/bin/wireshark)
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428[03:59:24] <lone-wolf> themill: Thank you.
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431[04:02:06] <themill> lone-wolf: Installing and running debsums might be a fruitful exercise for you too btw
432[04:02:08] <themill> !debsums
433[04:02:08] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, debsums is a utility that will check a package's files against their checksums. The "-a" argument will instruct it to also check configuration files: "aptitude install debsums; debsums -a -s". Most packages come with md5sums included in the package; if apt's package cache is clean, then generate missing sums with "aptitude reinstall `debsums -l`". Ask me about <md5sums>.
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435[04:04:04] <lone-wolf> Ok.
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439[04:08:36] <lone-wolf> themill it's possible put in autostart the wireshark with sudo?
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442[04:11:14] <themill> best not use sudo with graphical programs. You should be able to create a .desktop file that elevates the privileges (it will use polkit)
443[04:12:28] <lone-wolf> Ok.
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448[04:16:07] <wuzamarine> my gnome-terminal won't open in the gui (no error in logs) and using the command line I get replaced-url
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451[04:17:47] <rant> wuzamarine: why the hell woudld you be trying to run a compiled C program which is now likely a 64bit ELF binary in python3?
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453[04:18:33] <wuzamarine> rant: the error is a python error
454[04:19:17] <wuzamarine> rant: print url error is ALWAYS trying to run 2.7 code using v 3.x
455[04:19:35] <wuzamarine> missing parethesis
456[04:20:30] <themill> wuzamarine: what does "python -V" say?
457[04:20:53] <wuzamarine> themill: Python 2.7.12
458[04:21:25] <themill> You probably should get rid of everything in /usr/local/*/python*; there is nothing good going to come of that
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462[04:22:01] <wuzamarine> themill: my python istallation? its all via apt
463[04:22:07] <themill> nope
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465[04:22:24] <wuzamarine> themill: either Mint or apt
466[04:22:40] <themill> Nothing in /usr/local came from a debian package.
467[04:23:05] <themill> (and python 2.7.12 is nowhere in Debian either, btw)
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469[04:23:39] <wuzamarine> themill: there is a fuckton of 2.7 code out there still. sadly, but true
470[04:23:50] <wuzamarine> mainstream to
471[04:24:01] <themill> sure, that doesn't mean that 2.7.12 is in Debian
472[04:24:05] <rant> yeah idk but gnome-terminal is written in C not python
473[04:24:06] <themill> ,v python2.7
474[04:24:07] <judd> Package: python2.7 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.7.3-6+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 2.7.3-6+deb7u4; jessie: 2.7.9-2+deb8u1; stretch: 2.7.13-2+deb9u2; buster: 2.7.15-1; sid: 2.7.15-1
475[04:24:21] <themill> !mint
476[04:24:21] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
477[04:24:33] <wuzamarine> rant: where is that python error coming from?
478[04:24:39] <themill> wuzamarine: what you have is a lovely mess that has nothing to do with Debian...
479[04:24:41] <rant> it doesnt even have any python dependencies
480[04:24:50] <rant> wuzamarine: thats what I'd like to know :P
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503[04:45:33] <michael2> hi all. I have somehow flagged a bunch of packages to have some actions applied like, upgrade, install etc. and the proposed changes have a mess of conflict
504[04:45:38] <michael2> conflicts
505[04:46:12] <michael2> I want to "unmark" all these packages - so aptitude just leaves them alone
506[04:46:24] <michael2> am I correct in understanding this is not possible?
507[04:46:33] <themill> didn't we look at that a day or two ago -- aptitude keep-all?
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509[04:46:54] <michael2> yeah, we did
510[04:47:09] <michael2> I forget the command
511[04:47:40] <michael2> thanks themill, I'll try keep-all
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513[04:48:18] <themill> :)
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551[05:14:50] <kot> spammer in #debian-offtopic
552[05:15:20] <somiaj> kot: Please use #debian-ops for such notifications, offtopic here
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613[06:28:15] <jessica523> I am having the problem with pip that is mentioned here --> replaced-url
614[06:28:22] <jessica523> I tried apt-get remove pip pip3 ... removing the dirs suggested in that thread ... then apt-get install ... and now I get error re: "No such file or directory"
615[06:28:32] <jessica523> grrrr ... and now after trying apt-get purge pip and then reinstalling, I now get the following error:replaced-url
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620[06:29:21] <jessica523> I think at some point in the past I upgraded pip with pip, which I see now is a big mistake ... is there any easy way to recover from this?
621[06:31:54] <themill> also, please don't crosspost
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658[07:01:07] <darxmurf> morning
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665[07:18:40] <emu_rider> afternoon
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670[07:23:52] <vanuatu> afternoon. Anyone use pipenv for python3? How should I go about installing without messing up the system python3 pip? I keep breaking the system pip3 and thankfully can fix it with help from here: replaced-url
671[07:24:00] <vanuatu> but still no luck install pipenv
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676[07:25:15] <vanuatu> Here's the GitHub of pipenv: replaced-url
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679[07:26:12] <somiaj> install python3-virtualenv package, it should have all the tools to setup a python3 virtualenv
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682[07:27:08] <somiaj> and yes, you don't want to install local stuff with pip3 on your system if you can help it, putting this in a virtualenv is the suggested method.
683[07:28:09] <vanuatu> Is that mean I would install pipenv to a virtualenv then from that virtualenv use pipenv to manage other virtualenvironments? that doesn't sound right.
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686[07:28:40] <somiaj> python3-virtualenv pakage should have all the tools needed to create the virtualenv, then just install the stuff you need in there, no need to do another layer.
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688[07:29:49] <vanuatu> I just like using pipenv recently. It has some cool features, but yes I could return to virtualenv
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690[07:32:37] <somiaj> vanuatu: is the version of pip3 / python3 in debian just not compadable with pipenv. Though I would avoid installing packages this way it can be done if it is just a few things.
691[07:33:11] <somiaj> and yes I guess you could create a virtualenv with pipenv to then use to create other enviorments if that is your desire. I'm unsure on the differences between the tools. I find the python3 packages in debian sufficent for my ussage
692[07:34:46] <somiaj> ahh this is a fairly new feature, it may take a bit to get into debian, I don't see it in unstable.
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694[07:35:33] <vanuatu> As far as I know it should be compatible. I'm pretty sure I've done it before on a VM before but its been awhile and I can't recall now...….
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696[07:36:48] <somiaj> vanuatu: replaced-url
697[07:36:52] <vanuatu> Maybe I should have mentioned this but I'm trying this from Windows WSL Debian. Not sure what you guys thing of it yet. I'm just installing it and trying it out.
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701[07:38:09] <vanuatu> Not sure yet what differences to expect yet with stretch running on windows.
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707[07:39:46] <somiaj> vanuatu: it is an offical debian image, and I think in terms of cli stuff should be the same, as it gets more common and people come here with issues, I guess we'll better get use to them.
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711[07:40:57] <nekOwOseam> LXQt 0.13.0 was just released
712[07:40:57] <nekOwOseam> :D
713[07:41:04] <nekOwOseam> replaced-url
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715[07:43:04] <somiaj> okay? As a debian stable channel, we won't be seeing that lib until maybe the release of buster. (:
716[07:43:48] <dracc> somiaj, Any info on where the debian testing channel is?
717[07:44:12] <somiaj> dracc: #debain-next on irc.oftc.net
718[07:44:24] <dracc> somiaj, Thanks.
719[07:44:32] <somiaj> s/ai/ia/
720[07:44:59] <vanuatu> Thanks somiaj
721[07:45:55] <somiaj> vanuatu: if you are really adventours, you could try that new pipenv package and see if you can backport it to stretch. Though my suggestion is just stick with the tools in stretch. Maybe this tool will get backported once it makes it to testing, seems to be push by the python peoples to use this over the old tools.
722[07:46:03] <jelly> ,v lxqt
723[07:46:04] <judd> Package: lxqt on amd64 -- stretch: 13; buster: 27; sid: 27
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725[07:46:51] <somiaj> those version numbers don't seem that useful.
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728[07:47:50] <vanuatu> Ya I've used virutalenv for a long time but since I switched to pipenv this year I don't really want to go back. But I've never backported a package before so I'm not ready to do that atm.
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731[07:48:45] <somiaj> ,v python3
732[07:48:46] <judd> Package: python3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2.3-6; jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.6.4-1; sid: 3.6.5-3
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736[07:50:20] <somiaj> vanuatu: in this case it might not be that bad to backport, the depends seem to be satsified, well except one, python3-virtualenv-clone that package is not in stretch.
737[07:51:19] <somiaj> vanuatu: you might be able to just grab the python3-virtualenv-clone .deb from stretch and the pipenv .deb from that link I shared, and just install it. If your system is easy to revert, might be worth testing.
738[07:51:50] <somiaj> (unsure on how easy it would be to say create a new windows wsl if you break it)
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740[07:52:54] <vanuatu> somiaj: its a new system so nothing would be lost if I broke something. I read about how to re-install (refresh) a wsl and it seemed pretty simple.
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742[07:53:20] <vanuatu> But my workday is almost over so I'm won't be attempting that today.
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744[07:54:03] <somiaj> since it just seems to be python scripts and the depends on the package is > 3.3 which is met in stretch, it could be as simple as downloading those new debian packages and installing them.
745[07:54:34] <somiaj> usually I don't suggest such things, but the depends all seem sane to me...now ymmv, as this hasnt' been tested by anyone.
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750[07:58:44] <warbaque> my update-initramfs hangs: replaced-url
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753[08:00:36] <somiaj> do you have a vg-swap piece of your LVM, if not follow the instructions to state what your swap partition is.
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756[08:01:32] <somiaj> actually how long does it hang, those are just warnings. Could it it is just taking its time, also check dmesg, could it be related to your other hangs with mounts?
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770[08:09:09] <warbaque> somiaj: it hangs indefinitely. uuid is correct so I see no reason to override that (/dev/mapper/katiska00-swap, /dev/dm-2)
771[08:09:52] <somiaj> warbaque: I would check demsg, this seems related to your eariler issues
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775[08:11:18] <warbaque> nothing in dmesg
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784[08:15:40] <somiaj> did you finall fix your previous issue?
785[08:16:33] <somiaj> nothing in the output tells me why it is hanging. And if you aren't seeing any other issues, unsure how to best debug this.
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796[08:19:00] <warbaque> I purged libfmt-support and libvirt-daemon-system, didn't really fix anything yet (I moved vms to other machine for now)
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803[08:20:48] <warbaque> all local services work fine, can't do much with dpk, logging in takes ~25 seconds and I can't restart systemd-logind
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805[08:21:11] <warbaque> s/dpk/dpkg/
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808[08:22:37] <somiaj> I'm unsure on what could be hanging. You could try running update-initramfs manually and see what happens, may update-initramfs -v, and see if that gives you more output that can help see the issue
809[08:23:10] <hisforever> Hi I have to disable the alt key to use blender. Where do I do this?
810[08:23:24] <somiaj> acutlaly update-initramfs -u -v (or -c -v depending on if you want to create or update)
811[08:23:48] <somiaj> hisforever: what do you mean by disable the alt key to use blender, that seems like an odd thing to have to do?
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813[08:24:58] <warbaque> 'Building cpio /boot/initrd.img-3.16-3-amd64.new initramfs' seems to hang
814[08:25:22] <somiaj> well at least you know what part is hanging. Is this a jessie vm?
815[08:25:32] <somiaj> I thought you were on sid.
816[08:25:48] <warbaque> this is sid
817[08:25:50] <hisforever> I know it dose but to slect the row of nodes you need to use the alt and mouse click to graba hole row of nodes
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819[08:26:29] <somiaj> hisforever: so the problem is that when you hold alt, blender is not detecting this modifer and thus you can't click on the nodes?
820[08:27:06] <hisforever> right I'm not good at explaining
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822[08:27:40] <hisforever> The screen just blinks with blender
823[08:28:11] <somiaj> hisforever: it is very unstandard to have alt be a keybinding, but try this, run 'xev' then when a window pops up, goto that window and hit alt, and check to see if you notice a 'KeyPress event' that says you hit the alt key
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827[08:29:00] <somiaj> hisforever: if you see that, this means the alt key is getting sent to the application and the issue is blender is not interecpting it correctly, if you don't see that KeyPress, then you ened to check your window manager/desktop enviorment key binding settings and see why alt is setup as a key binding
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829[08:29:30] <somiaj> hisforever: dpkg -l | grep linux-image -- do you still have the old 3.16 kernel installed?
830[08:29:38] <somiaj> warbaque: ^^
831[08:29:47] <somiaj> hisforever: sorry that last state about the kernel was not for you.
832[08:30:12] <hisforever> I just came over from Manjaro to Mx linux
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834[08:30:30] <somiaj> hisforever: are you even running debian? Neither of those sound like debian.
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836[08:30:56] <somiaj> !based on debian
837[08:30:56] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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839[08:31:08] <hisforever> yes mx linuxis debian
840[08:31:12] <somiaj> hisforever: this is a support channel for debian, we are unsure what MX linux would be doing.
841[08:31:15] <somiaj> no mx linux is not debian.
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843[08:31:58] <nekOwOseam> MX Linux is debian with a preconfigured Xfce desktop and SysV
844[08:32:04] <nekOwOseam> Nothing too special
845[08:32:08] <somiaj> nekOwOseam: no mx is not debian, it is 'based on debian'.
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847[08:32:21] <nekOwOseam> I know that
848[08:32:28] <nekOwOseam> I was just ellaborating on what it is
849[08:32:30] <somiaj> then don't say it is debian.
850[08:32:32] <nekOwOseam> for those who didn't know
851[08:32:32] <somiaj> (:
852[08:32:33] <warbaque> somiaj: yes, replaced-url
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854[08:32:49] <somiaj> warbaque: uname -a
855[08:32:54] <somiaj> warbaque: are you running the 3.16 kernel?
856[08:32:57] <warbaque> yes
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858[08:33:24] <somiaj> warbaque: this is probably the cause of most your problems. apt install linux-image-amd64 and get rid of the old kernel. You should be using the current 4.16 (I belive) kernel in sid
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860[08:33:47] <hisforever> somiaj: thanks
861[08:34:02] <somiaj> hisforever: I'm unsure where the best support for mx linux is. You could try ##linux
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863[08:34:38] <hisforever> ok ty
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868[08:36:24] <warbaque> I'm quite sure I've had newer kernel at some point
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873[08:38:12] <warbaque> now how should I get around updating my kernel: replaced-url
874[08:38:51] <somiaj> warbaque: this is a vm or a full system?
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876[08:39:14] <warbaque> full system
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878[08:39:33] <warbaque> 'Building cpio /boot/initrd.img-4.16.0-1-amd64.new initramfs'
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880[08:40:08] <somiaj> I would boot off of a live image or stretch installer, and chroot into your system, and see if running a 4.16 kernel will help fix these issues
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882[08:40:33] <somiaj> it could be just something is not compadable with the 3.16 kernel, causing a hang, since these newer versions of the tools were not tested ont hat older kernel.
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888[08:46:24] <warbaque> apparently I have to reboot at some point then, thanks for help. I didn't even think to check kernel version, I have no idea why is it running 3.16
889[08:47:22] <somiaj> yea, this could explain the strange behavior you have been seeing.
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923[09:01:24] <warbaque> somiaj: 'mkinitramfs -v -c -k 4.16.0-1-amd64 -o /tmp/initrd.img.tmp' didn't hang
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925[09:02:19] <somiaj> nice, well hopefully running a newer kernel will make a lot of the crazyness you have subside
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933[09:05:42] <warbaque> I'll try propably next weekend or something
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967[09:24:25] <warbaque> apparently it's sync that hangs
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1044[10:04:22] <shann> Hi
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1046[10:04:42] <shann> this week-end i found strange bug with LXC and Debian Stretch,
1047[10:05:12] <shann> with php installed, php cron doesn't execute because /run/systemd/system folder exist.
1048[10:05:35] <somiaj> I would check the bts then report it, though might see if the bug appears in testing/unstable as well
1049[10:06:10] <shann> my colleague call me because issue with one container refuse to start. After investigation found that / is full, and specially /var/lib/php/sessions (18Go over 20Go to /)
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1052[10:07:27] <shann> somiaj, thanks, infact i discuse this in place before check bts and open bts :).
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1054[10:08:09] <somiaj> do yo have any errors from cron stating why the php cron job was failing?
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1058[10:09:31] <shann> somiaj, i check condition if folder /run/systemd/system doesn't exist run sessionclean, but folder exist (it's empty but present).
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1062[10:10:14] <somiaj> so what do you think the bug is, do you think that directory shouldn't exist, sounds like your php script might need some other check.
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1064[10:11:19] <shann> somiaj that not my script, it's /etc/cron.d/php :-)
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1066[10:11:56] <somiaj> okay miss understood the i check.
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1070[10:13:18] <shann> no problem, sorry if i dont explain correctly :). this paste a content of "/etc/cron.d/php" replaced-url
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1077[10:15:50] <michael2> someone else was posting in here with the same problem a few weeks ago. shann: how was php installed? which version?
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1082[10:16:57] <shann> hi michael2, php 7.0 (7.0.27-0+deb9u1)
1083[10:17:16] <shann> from official repo :)
1084[10:17:17] <somiaj> in this case look at the php-common package
1085[10:17:54] <shann> somiaj, infact i check packages.debian.org '/etc/cron.d/php' provided by php-common package
1086[10:18:11] <somiaj> yea, browsing the source now
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1088[10:19:11] <somiaj> I can't seem to find that file in the newer version of the package, looking in older versions
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1093[10:19:40] <shann> i check that if updates available to php-common but not.
1094[10:19:45] <lupulo> jessica523, go python channel
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1096[10:20:17] <somiaj> shann: it seems there is also a systemd service that should be doing this, so the problem is not that the cron job is not running, it is that the php session is not working.
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1099[10:20:29] <somiaj> shann: could it be that services with systemd arne't fully functional in the lxc container?
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1101[10:20:59] <somiaj> but there is a systemd phpsessionclean.service and phpsessionclean.timer, and these should be the thigns cleaning the session (every 30 mins) and not the cron job
1102[10:21:49] <jessica523> lupulo, a little late (somiaj already helped me fix it)... but this was a debian issue anyway, based on me breaking python-pip package by updating pip through pip instead of apt
1103[10:21:54] <shann> interesting
1104[10:22:02] <shann> systemctl status phpsessionclean in state failed
1105[10:22:12] <shann> "Failed at step NETWORK spawning /usr/lib/php/sessionclean: Permission denied"
1106[10:22:35] <somiaj> shann: that is why the cron job is checking for that dir, to know if systemd is present, and if systemd is present, letting the systemd services do the job
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1109[10:22:55] <lupulo> jessica523, i know conda, the version aren't problem, pip i don't know
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1111[10:23:27] <jessica523> lupulo, ???
1112[10:23:28] <somiaj> jessica523: that is why you shouldn't cross post, people here missed the discussion about your issue on irc.oftc.net
1113[10:23:29] <shann> o_O, i found replaced-url
1114[10:23:30] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1116[10:23:38] <lupulo> jessica523, you could says the version and repositories what python uses?
1117[10:23:45] <somiaj> shann: so there is your actual issue.
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1120[10:24:10] <shann> same that container run on unprivileged mode, and seem fix in buster / sid
1121[10:24:49] <somiaj> shann: you could disable/mask the systemd services, then edit the php cron job to not do the check
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1123[10:24:58] <somiaj> shann: since it is reported, not much else you can do
1124[10:25:10] <somiaj> but it is a conf file, so you can change it
1125[10:25:22] <jessica523> somiaj, lol true :) ... I was very confused about why someone was responding hours later. you are right though - I was just being impatient and hoping to ++ my chances of getting quick response
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1127[10:26:05] <somiaj> jessica523: they saw your question was asked in the back log and not answerd, so trying to be helpful.
1128[10:26:06] <shann> somiaj, infact, now i run temporary fix (disable systemd service and edit cron job), to wait buster :)
1129[10:26:18] <jessica523> somiaj, yes - I see now it was my fault
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1132[10:27:37] <jessica523> lupulo, I have already resolved the problem. Basically, I just had to purge/reinstall pip and remove the stuff in /home/username/.local that pip had installed and it all works fine now
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1134[10:29:03] <lupulo> jessica523, i say about "Creating a virtualenv" with python. i read after, i suppose now what you refer about python-pip dependencies with another python-*
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1136[10:30:03] <somiaj> jessica523: hopefully you got my comment, I would figure out how python-vritualenv works and not use the new pipenv, stretch was frozen before that was around. This way you stick to debian packages. (maybe in the future it will be aviable in backports but not right now)
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1141[10:32:11] <jessica523> somiaj, yes - I am using sid
1142[10:32:25] * jessica523 ducks, because she knows she should be in #debian-next
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1144[10:32:52] <shann> somiaj, strange that fix is for buster and not backported to stretch ?
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1146[10:33:26] <somiaj> if you know such things, then you should know what to do. Anyways there is a pipenv package in incomming for sid, so keep your eyes open for it
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1148[10:34:02] <somiaj> shann: it really isn't an rc bug in my eyes, and even then not all bugs in stretch get fixed, it is a frozen system, not bug free. In this case it is easy to fix manually in such a way that it won't interfer with updates of the packages.
1149[10:34:18] <somiaj> shann: the reason I'm saying it isn't rc, is because it affects a small use case (sounds like unprivlaged lxc containers)
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1151[10:35:26] <shann> ok i understood, and i think also isn't critical bug (not frozen system) and use case specific (lxc container)
1152[10:36:13] <somiaj> stretch mainly gets security updates and grave bug fixes.
1153[10:36:17] <somiaj> ,v php-common
1154[10:36:18] <judd> Package: php-common on amd64 -- stretch: 1:49; buster: 1:61; sid: 1:61
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1156[10:36:38] <shann> and in case of large scale it's easier to automate this.
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1158[10:36:58] <somiaj> yea, I can see it being a surprise, but now you know it is there, you can easily work around it.
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1164[10:39:26] <shann> infact, it's suprise me, but prefer security updates and bug fixes, and concentrate to next features :P. Problem is reported and purpose "manual fix" work to wait. That principal
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1167[10:40:46] <somiaj> well at least you figured out the issue
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1181[10:46:22] <jessica523> I want to install KDE. Can I do this with just `apt-get install kde-full` or is it better to use the debian desktop + kde tasksel?
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1185[10:46:47] <somiaj> taskel's package would just possibly pull in more stuff than kde-full
1186[10:46:52] <somiaj> either works, choose the one you like best
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1189[10:49:59] <jessica523> somiaj, is there likely to be a bunch of basic functionality missing with apt-get install though? when I tried installing xfce4 with apt-get, it was missing basic desktop features like mixer, network managers, clipboard, etc ... installing via tasksel had all of this built in (+ a bunch of garbage I didn't need) ...
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1197[10:51:13] <jessica523> sorry, that's a pretty vague question ... is there any way to compare the packages that apt-get install kde-full vs. tasksel would install?
1198[10:52:14] <somiaj> jessica523: no, kde-full contains the full kde suit, the tasksel package may pull in libreoffice or other things that is common, that is not part of kde
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1200[10:52:44] <jessica523> somiaj, oh, I see. definitely don't want the tasksel then. thanks.
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1202[10:53:59] <somiaj> you can use apt show package to see the list of thigns it depends on, tasksel options are also just meta apcakges
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1212[10:59:26] <Nothing4You> is there a way to "check" preseed files?
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1217[11:06:17] <Nothing4You> i'm trying to figure out why it tries to create a non-root user even though i set `d-i passwd/make-user boolean false`
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1219[11:06:53] <Nothing4You> does it require either root or normal user on that step?
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1239[11:22:40] <totorux> hi
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1241[11:23:05] <dracc> totorux, Hi!
1242[11:23:05] <totorux> I'm look for a automated solution of this bug: replaced-url
1243[11:23:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1246[11:23:13] <totorux> dracc: hi
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1249[11:23:38] <totorux> I use a preseed file to install some computer
1250[11:24:09] <totorux> and I want to remove /target/etc/grub.d/30_os-prober file befor grub-update is run
1251[11:24:13] <totorux> any idear ?
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1265[11:35:05] <lorde> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 • OS: Fedora release 28 (Twenty Eight) • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570 CPU @ 3.20GHz (2.10GHz) • Memory: 19.0 GiB Total (15.4 GiB Free) • Storage: 159.4 GB / 490.5 GB (331.1 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 2h 41m 10s
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1269[11:37:19] <bazhang> sysinfo for a fedora system in #debian
1270[11:37:22] <jelly> lorde: maybe avoid doing that in this support channel in the future, there's #debian-offtopic over there ->
1271[11:37:48] * jelly didn't even notice it was a fedora
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1275[11:40:41] <dqs_gentoo> LOL
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1285[11:45:37] <lorde> Sorry guys, I accidentally pushed the 'Post system info' button in HexChat
1286[11:45:58] <dqs_gentoo> uhuh xD
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1289[11:48:49] <colo-work> whoever chooses fedora release codenames sure has gotten lazy ;)
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1304[11:55:42] <Logg> 19 GiB? 8 + 8 + 2 + 1 ?
1305[11:56:49] <lorde> 8 + 8 + 2 + 2; free -m reports 19959 MiB total
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1307[11:57:50] <lorde> Lets not continue this, don't want to litter the chat with meaningless small talk
1308[11:59:39] <lorde> By the way, is anyone aware of the plans to update Firefox to 60 in Stretch, since 60 is the new ESR?
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1349[12:20:02] <dotc> Does debian have any newer version packages repo like remi, ius in centos?
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1352[12:22:24] <colo-work> backports
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1363[12:26:43] <dotc> colo-work, thx, i'm checking the backports page now.
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1423[13:17:20] <wrksx> Heeeey there =)
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1430[13:18:34] <wrksx> I created a cron job and made it fail to test the behavior before trying anything. I didn't even received a mail I think, I tried to check using mail but -bash: mail: command not found
1431[13:19:03] <wrksx> So, first question is what is the "default" cmd line mail client installed in debian ?
1432[13:19:13] <wrksx> I mean, when it's installed
1433[13:19:23] <wrksx> so I can install it =) I don't need anything fancy
1434[13:19:37] <petn-randall> wrksx: 'mutt' works for most people.
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1439[13:20:07] <petn-randall> wrksx: mail would also work, but you of course need to install it first.
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1442[13:20:31] <wrksx> petn-randall, So mutt doesn't start when calling mail ?
1443[13:20:41] <wrksx> I mean, there's an actual 'mail' package ?
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1445[13:21:50] <AndreasLutro> mail is /etc/alternatives/mail which on my system points to /usr/bin/mail.mailutils which comes from the mailutils package - mail itself is not an actual package
1446[13:22:12] <wrksx> alright, perfect
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1455[13:25:21] <wrksx> mailutils depends on mysql-common that's unexpected
1456[13:25:34] <petn-randall> Historically there have always been several 'mail' implementations, pick the one you like.
1457[13:25:57] <AndreasLutro> doesn't on my system. what debian version are you on?
1458[13:26:14] <wrksx> Debian 4.9.88-1
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1460[13:26:18] <wrksx> hu
1461[13:26:21] <AndreasLutro> I hope not!
1462[13:26:24] <wrksx> lol
1463[13:26:32] <wrksx> guess that's the kernel
1464[13:26:43] <wrksx> dunno how to check the debian version that's Jessie
1465[13:26:44] <AndreasLutro> lsb_release -d
1466[13:27:01] <wrksx> oops that's not =)
1467[13:27:02] <wrksx> Debian GNU/Linux 9.4 (stretch)
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1469[13:27:08] <jelly> ,depends mailutils
1470[13:27:10] <judd> Package mailutils in stretch/amd64 -- depends: mailutils-common (= 1:3.1.1-1), default-mta | mail-transport-agent, guile-2.0-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libfribidi0 (>= 0.19.2), libgc1c2 (>= 1:7.2d), libgnutls30 (>= 3.5.0), libgsasl7 (>= 1.1), libkyotocabinet16v5 (>= 1.2.76), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libmailutils5, libncurses5 (>= 6), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7), libreadline7 (>= 6.0),
1471[13:27:11] <judd> libtinfo5 (>= 6), libwrap0 (>= 7.6-4~).
1472[13:27:34] <jelly> don't see any mysql in there
1473[13:27:47] <jelly> ,depends bsd-mailx
1474[13:27:49] <judd> Package bsd-mailx in stretch/amd64 -- depends: base-files (>= 2.2.0), default-mta | mail-transport-agent, libbsd0 (>= 0.2.0), libc6 (>= 2.17), liblockfile1 (>= 1.0).
1475[13:27:59] <wrksx> weird
1476[13:28:07] <wrksx> why does it want to instal mysql then
1477[13:28:10] <petn-randall> Probably the default-mta that pulls it in.
1478[13:28:12] <AndreasLutro> ,depends libmailutils4
1479[13:28:14] <judd> No package named 'libmailutils4' was found in stretch/amd64.
1480[13:28:26] <AndreasLutro> oops
1481[13:28:26] <bites> apt-cache depends --recurse mailutils | grep mysql-common
1482[13:28:38] <wrksx> nice
1483[13:28:48] <AndreasLutro> ,depends libmailutils5
1484[13:28:49] <judd> Package libmailutils5 in stretch/amd64 -- depends: mailutils-common (= 1:3.1.1-1), guile-2.0-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libgc1c2 (>= 1:7.2d), libgnutls30 (>= 3.5.6), libgsasl7 (>= 1.1), libkyotocabinet16v5 (>= 1.2.76), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libltdl7 (>= 2.4.6), libmariadbclient18 (>= 5.5.36), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7).
1485[13:28:57] <AndreasLutro> libmariadbclient18 is in there so I guess that's it?
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1487[13:29:07] <wrksx> yeah
1488[13:29:15] <wrksx> mariaclient and mysqlcommon
1489[13:29:42] <AndreasLutro> seems a bit odd, maybe one of the default mail backends works with mysql
1490[13:29:43] <jelly> that's still just my.cnf file under /etc so no big deal
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1492[13:30:38] <wrksx> jelly, not sure I understand what you mean by that
1493[13:30:51] <jelly> it's not a huge dependency.
1494[13:31:22] <wrksx> yeah I don't really know what's in mysql-common
1495[13:31:23] <petn-randall> wrksx: `dpkg -L mysql-common`
1496[13:31:46] <wrksx> `dpkg -L mysql-common`
1497[13:31:54] <wrksx> dpkg-query: package 'mysql-common' is not installed
1498[13:32:17] <wrksx> I guess there's a way to check non installed packages
1499[13:32:49] <petn-randall> wrksx: `apt-file show mysql-common`
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1501[13:33:07] <wrksx> `apt-file show mysql-common` =)
1502[13:33:11] <wrksx> sudo: apt-file: command not found
1503[13:33:28] <petn-randall> wrksx: But by now you surely know how to install missing packages, right? :)
1504[13:33:40] <wrksx> petn-randall, yeah I guess
1505[13:34:05] <wrksx> petn-randall, I've always had trouble remembering how to use various apt command
1506[13:34:23] <petn-randall> wrksx: Btw, If you install 'command-not-found', your shell will automatically lookup the package you need to install, so you don't have to search it yourself.
1507[13:34:23] <wrksx> I'm glad it's getting wrapped in the generic apt
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1509[13:35:24] <wrksx> apt-file update that's new to me
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1527[13:46:10] <linuxnoob> can Linux and Debian be made as easy as Windows from usability perspective? for an end user for home and office use?
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1530[13:47:01] <babilen> linuxnoob: I find Debian to be a lot easier than Windows and my immediate family agrees
1531[13:47:36] <linuxnoob> babilen: how?
1532[13:47:46] <linuxnoob> could you please elaborate?
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1534[13:48:19] <babilen> I installed Debian on my family's boxes a couple of years back and they are happily using Gnome or XFCE
1535[13:48:41] <cr1mson_king> linuxnoob, you don't have to install a bunch of drivers for GNU/Linux. They come with the kernel.
1536[13:48:46] <babilen> I maintain their systems via SSH and have them configured to install security upgrades automatically
1537[13:48:56] <linuxnoob> were your family members aware of or have used any linux distro?
1538[13:49:14] <babilen> They are very aware that they are using Debian, yes
1539[13:49:24] <babilen> "Much easier than before"
1540[13:49:34] <cr1mson_king> linuxnoob, programs come from a repository. You plug a USB device or a USB printer and it is automatically installed and ready to use
1541[13:49:38] <babilen> (i.e. the time they had to use Windows with driver issues and whatnot)
1542[13:49:46] <warbaque> my grandparents have used debian for the last 10 years now, and they don't even know what linux is
1543[13:49:49] <linuxnoob> what if someone who doesn't have the technical knowledge of OS wants to use Debian?
1544[13:50:03] <babilen> They can easily install software from a single place and generally speaking the user interface is more logical and consistent (to them)
1545[13:50:29] <babilen> linuxnoob: How is that different from someone who doesn't have the technical knowledge to use/install Windows?
1546[13:50:46] <linuxnoob> which DE would you recommend for someone who have used only Windows?
1547[13:50:53] <warbaque> cinnamon propably
1548[13:50:54] <babilen> A lot of these discussions conflate familiarity with usability
1549[13:51:12] <linuxnoob> ok. Debian with Cinnamon?
1550[13:51:32] <babilen> My family is happy with Gnome 3 and one opted for XFCE
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1552[13:51:41] <linuxnoob> ok
1553[13:51:43] <babilen> Speak to them about it, show them the options ...
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1555[13:51:45] <cr1mson_king> KDE looks more like Windows 10, but Cinnamon ends up being more traditional and doesn't change much
1556[13:51:56] <linuxnoob> ok
1557[13:52:11] <babilen> The thing that made the biggest difference wasn't so much the interface, but accessibility settings (e.g. reduce double click and mouse pointer speed, ...)
1558[13:52:31] <linuxnoob> what about this Spectre and Meltdown vulnerability? is Debian secured from that?
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1560[13:52:34] <AndreasLutro> I installed linux for my sister. she was really happy with it until she found out that netflix and spotify were non-trivial to install. and her university basically required windows to do a digital exam
1561[13:52:54] <babilen> Yeah .. that can be a pain
1562[13:53:11] <babilen> Luckily my family doesn't require anything that is "windows only" for some reason or another
1563[13:53:32] <babilen> I hear that bank websites in some countries are horrible and only work in IE (but I'm not sure if that's an urban myth)
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1565[13:53:35] <AndreasLutro> linuxnoob: yes, debian ships the patched kernels as soon as they're developed
1566[13:53:47] <babilen> Not a problem in .de/.tw/.uk at leasat
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1568[13:53:57] <linuxnoob> ok
1569[13:54:07] <babilen> I really wouldn't shy away from it
1570[13:54:14] <AndreasLutro> well, released by the kernel team, not developed.
1571[13:54:30] <tw> ROK sites only work in IE because they used to require an activex control from the govt.
1572[13:54:45] <babilen> My family is a lot happier with Linux now .. also because changes are kept consistent and the UI/system behaves in a predicable way. They feel more in control
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1574[13:54:46] <cr1mson_king> Bank ATMs here in Brazil run Debian. I saw a password machine booting Debian 7 last year
1575[13:55:01] <cr1mson_king> And government buildings have Ubuntu on their computers
1576[13:55:22] <babilen> tw: Yeah, that's probably exactly what I was thinking of
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1578[13:55:46] <linuxnoob> but, here nearly everyone uses windows only.
1579[13:56:32] <linuxnoob> is Debian only for geeks?
1580[13:56:41] <babilen> I mean obviously they wouldn't/shouldn't ever have to fix a broken package installation, Xorg driver problem or linker problem .. but that doesn't happen on stable anyway and i'm there to perform major upgrades
1581[13:57:18] <AndreasLutro> linuxnoob: I'd recommend debian to anyone. it's only a little bit more work to set up than ubuntu, and a lot less likely to break
1582[13:57:20] <babilen> But then .. they couldn't upgrade Windows either and just bought a machine when an old box became slow (probably due to MS Windows cruft as much as being genuinely old)
1583[13:57:30] <linuxnoob> btw, can Debian once installed be made as convenient to use as Mint or Ubuntu?
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1585[13:57:59] <babilen> Besides: My mother is now the "cool kid" among her peers who shows off her Linux system to her friends and tells them how to use the smartphone :)
1586[13:58:11] <AndreasLutro> don't know, I never understood what made ubuntu/mint more convenient than debian
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1588[13:58:23] <babilen> What is this "convenience" exactly?
1589[13:58:25] <AndreasLutro> but then again I write my own xinitrc so I'm biased
1590[13:58:30] <babilen> ;)
1591[13:58:52] <warbaque> debian on average is a lot less work than ubuntu
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1594[13:59:27] <linuxnoob> babilen: which distro does she use now?
1595[13:59:32] <babilen> Debian
1596[14:00:29] <linuxnoob> ok
1597[14:00:38] <linuxnoob> Debian with which DE?
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1599[14:01:12] <babilen> It really is typically more about "being familiar" with a system and learning certain "patterns" or "ways" to achieve things. With that you can help them and the feedback I've been given is that their experience is a lot more consistent than what they experienced with Windows before
1600[14:01:29] <babilen> linuxnoob: As I said: Most use Gnome, one person uses XFCE
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1602[14:01:39] <linuxnoob> great.
1603[14:01:57] <babilen> But then: They aren't stupid and you can talk to them about this
1604[14:02:00] <linuxnoob> I will download Debian with xfce then.
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1606[14:02:47] <babilen> The most important thing was to make adjustments to the mouse and keyboard (decrease key repeat, mouse pointer speed, double click speed, ...)
1607[14:03:07] <babilen> tbh, I'd opt for Gnome
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1609[14:04:09] <linuxnoob> babilen: but, can't we install multiple DEs once it has been installed?
1610[14:04:19] <babilen> Sure
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1613[14:04:34] <linuxnoob> I intend to install Gnome and Cinnamon on top of Debian xfce.
1614[14:04:51] <linuxnoob> will it create any inconsistencies and problems?
1615[14:05:00] <babilen> The two major factors that contributed positively were: 1. Consistent behaviour 2. Accessibility
1616[14:05:26] <babilen> 1. also includes "no weird major UI changes between versions"
1617[14:06:00] <linuxnoob> ok
1618[14:06:01] <cr1mson_king> linuxnoob, then you can edit their menus so each DE shows only apps from that DE. Because there will be like "gnome-terminal" and "xfce4-terminal" all together
1619[14:06:03] <babilen> XFCE was due to Gnome 2 → Gnome 3, but the rest happily started with Gnome 3
1620[14:06:23] <linuxnoob> cr1mson_king: how to do that?
1621[14:06:52] <babilen> cr1mson_king raises an important point in that I think it would be detrimental to overwhelm them with choice
1622[14:07:13] <babilen> There is *one* browser, *one* file manager, *one* email client, ...
1623[14:07:23] <cr1mson_king> linuxnoob, the easy way is to use one of the menu editor apps available. GNOME uses Alacarte
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1626[14:07:35] <linuxnoob> ok
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1628[14:07:56] <linuxnoob> but, why Debian xfce doesn't look as polished as Xubuntu or Mint Xfce?
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1631[14:08:22] <babilen> Because it is the default install and up to you to configure a background image and "theme"
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1638[14:09:30] <linuxnoob> can we make Debian xfce as visually appealing as Mint xfce?
1639[14:09:47] <babilen> Sure
1640[14:09:51] <linuxnoob> ok
1641[14:10:12] <babilen> You can do anything
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1643[14:10:19] <zamuro> easiest way is to copy xfce config directory from mint to debian.
1644[14:10:39] <linuxnoob> and what is the advantage of using Debian over Ubuntu or Mint?
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1653[14:12:59] <zamuro> If you're just using your pc for the everyday things (i.e.: internet browsing, ocasional streaming, office suite), none. If you're a coder or a sysadmin, you might want to have something more stable and reliable.
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1657[14:14:26] <linuxnoob> ok
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1680[14:30:39] <linuxnoob> what's your opinion about MX Linux, a Debian based distro?
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1682[14:30:52] <linuxnoob> or even linux mint debian edition?
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1688[14:32:37] <petn-randall> linuxnoob: On this channel you'll probably only get "use Debian, all the forks are crap". But then again this is #debian, so we might be biased.
1689[14:34:02] <linuxnoob> ok
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1692[14:34:22] <emu_rider> linuxnoob: I used MX Linux for a few months last year, it is a pretty good distro imo, everything looks nice out of the box
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1696[14:35:18] <petn-randall> linuxnoob: Just remember that while other distros might come with an easier to use installation, but if you need support many derivative distros have only a very small support community.
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1698[14:36:43] <emu_rider> linuxnoob: seems that you are looking to use xfce as your DE, MXLinux's default settings make xfce look very nice
1699[14:37:14] <linuxnoob> ok
1700[14:37:22] <emu_rider> But Im sure you can get a debian install to look just the same, if you have time to tinker all the theme settings
1701[14:37:37] <linuxnoob> I just want the easiest DE to use.
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1704[14:39:10] <jelly> the one you get used to becomes the easiest with time
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1706[14:39:58] <emu_rider> using window managers only instead of DE...on the other hand...hmm
1707[14:41:23] <linuxnoob> ok. In case the it is installed on a computer that is used by others also?
1708[14:42:01] <linuxnoob> which distro or DE has the lowest learning curve?
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1717[14:45:44] <CissWit> linuxnoob: most DE are easy to learn and use, you won't meet a lot of unexpected behavior with most popular desktop environment.
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1719[14:46:07] <linuxnoob> ok
1720[14:48:01] <CissWit> considering the distribution it depends on your need. I like recommending debian stable to begginer because it isn't hard to install and manage for basic usage (office, web), it's stable, update almost never break anything, and as such, you should always be fine
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1722[14:48:22] <CissWit> now it depends on your need, debian stable can be frustrated to begginer because it's hard to install the latest version of some software for a begginer
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1724[14:49:06] <linuxnoob> ok.
1725[14:49:30] <CissWit> in that case a derivative (like mint or ubuntu) with more updates can suit you better
1726[14:49:36] <linuxnoob> btw, why Debian doesn't have a tool like Yast that is available for Opensuse?
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1730[14:51:24] <linuxnoob> CissWit: but, they say Mint is not a secure distro. What's your opinion on its update policy?
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1737[14:55:08] <CissWit> I don't know much about their update policy, never used it myself
1738[14:55:36] <linuxnoob> ok
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1740[14:55:42] <dfcnvt> I'm scratching my head -- how do I format the time/date in Debian 9? I was successful in the previous version but this one...?
1741[14:56:24] <dfcnvt> The current default is "Tue 8:55 AM" -- I want this type of format, "May:Tues 5/22/18 8:55 AM"
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1744[14:57:33] <petn-randall> dfcnvt: date format where exactly? There are many places a date can show up.
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1746[14:57:59] <jelly> is that an entry for silliest date format ever
1747[14:58:07] <dfcnvt> petn-randall: Uh, the default that Debian 9 has? Top center.
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1750[14:58:20] <dfcnvt> Gnome environment.
1751[15:00:21] <dfcnvt> petn-randall: Snapshot -- replaced-url
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1753[15:02:16] <dxtr> Hi! I'm trying to set up nfsv4 and I get "Illegal NFS file handle" when I'm trying to mount my share
1754[15:02:21] <dxtr> What does that even mean?
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1758[15:03:33] <dxtr> On the client I simply get "Unknown error 521"
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1761[15:04:53] <petn-randall> dxtr: Hard to say without you providing any details whatsoever.
1762[15:04:55] <petn-randall> !ask
1763[15:04:55] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1764[15:04:58] <petn-randall> !context
1765[15:04:58] <dpkg> Try to give enough context! For example, let us know which command/program you are running, what you expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as possible. If your command produced output, share the complete command (with all parameters!) and its output on replaced-url
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1769[15:06:03] <petn-randall> dfcnvt: Those will be derived from the locale settings. You can probably configure that in the gnome settings menu. I don't use gnome, so I can't give you details.
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1771[15:06:24] <dxtr> petn-randall: So, uuh, what is relevant information in this case except for exportfs -s?
1772[15:06:27] <dfcnvt> ...locale settings
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1774[15:06:47] <linuxnoob> can I download and try the live usb versions of Debian? can I install from that?
1775[15:06:55] <dfcnvt> gnome settings menu...Okay, I'll try and search throughly.
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1777[15:07:12] <petn-randall> dfcnvt: It's sometimes also called 'language settings'.
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1781[15:07:32] <petn-randall> linuxnoob: Yes and yes.
1782[15:07:50] <linuxnoob> ok
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1786[15:08:29] <linuxnoob> Debian vis-a-vis OpenSuse, Mageia, CentOS?
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1794[15:16:13] <dxtr> petn-randall: replaced-url
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1803[15:21:52] <dxtr> The directory /var/backups/restic exists and I can put data there
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1805[15:22:33] <dxtr> rpc.mountd is running
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1812[15:26:41] <RoyK> dxtr: you don't need rpc.mountd on nfs4
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1814[15:26:57] <RoyK> rpc.mountd/portmapper is a PITA
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1823[15:29:59] <dxtr> Okay so I stopped mountd and now I don't get the same error
1824[15:30:05] <dxtr> Now it just hangs instead
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1831[15:32:41] <Haohmaru> dayum.. sorting in libreoffice calc seems to almost kill the computer :/
1832[15:33:18] <Haohmaru> ram usage skyrockets, even the mouse cursor and clock stops
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1836[15:36:34] <jelly> that sounds like swapping
1837[15:36:55] <jelly> get more RAM or less rows in your sheets
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1839[15:37:24] <Haohmaru> yeah.. it's RAM for sure
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1841[15:37:57] <Haohmaru> it's just one sheet of 127 rows
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1845[15:38:40] <Haohmaru> the ram usage then remains after the operation is finished, that smells like either "undo buffer" or memory leak
1846[15:39:02] <Haohmaru> i hope the sorting isn't done via some scripting language like java or who-knows-what
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1848[15:39:56] <greycat> Java is not a scripting language, and applications that dynamically allocate memory can almost never give it back to the OS.
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1851[15:40:33] <Haohmaru> how come?
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1853[15:40:52] <greycat> Once an application has allocated some memory, it typically goes into a pool where it's chopped up into little teeny pieces and handed out to calling functions as needed.
1854[15:40:58] <Haohmaru> new[]; <something something>; delete []; ?
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1856[15:41:16] <greycat> In order to return it, EVERY single teeny little piece would have to be freed and then all returned at once. This never happens. Instead, the app just hangs on to it and reuses it.
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1859[15:42:08] <Haohmaru> i honestly didn't know it works that way
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1861[15:42:25] <tyzef> #flood /msg dpkg guidelines
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1864[15:43:37] <Haohmaru> i know RAM gets fragmented eventually, but i thought that if you allocate some big buffer to do stuff, and then deallocate it - there would be some effective minimization of ram usage
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1866[15:43:55] <greycat> No. Not at the malloc() level.
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1868[15:44:32] <Haohmaru> so you mean, once you start a program - it's ram usage will only ever grow untill you terminate it?
1869[15:44:40] <Haohmaru> * its
1870[15:44:40] <LTCD> I am trying to encrypt my home drive for user root, but it complains that files are in use so they cannot be copied (as to be expected as I am logged in). Any suggestions? replaced-url
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1872[15:45:06] <petn-randall> LTCD: Wrong channel, this is #debian.
1873[15:45:09] <petn-randall> !kali
1874[15:45:09] <greycat> It's virtual memory usage will act that way. Its actual RSS (Resident Set Size) may shrink, as no-longer-used virtual memory pages are swapped out.
1875[15:45:09] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
1876[15:45:26] <petn-randall> LTCD: TL;DR: Kali is not Debian, ask in the right channel.
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1883[15:48:36] <greycat> s/It's/Its/
1884[15:49:28] <LTCD> petn-randall: It's still Debian bro, instrucitons are same if you read my link.
1885[15:49:36] <greycat> *plonk*
1886[15:50:17] <LTCD> Kali channel is dead, and I would have the exact same issue on Debian...
1887[15:50:56] <LTCD> Actually I just booted into Debian guys, strangely had same issue, could anyone help a dev out? (WARNING LIE DETECTED)
1888[15:50:58] <somiaj> LTCD: then install a debian stretch box, reporduce the bug in debian and report it.
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1890[15:51:43] <somiaj> LTCD: part of what you choose with a linux distro is the support community, #debian supports people who choose to run debian pure blends. Since you have chosen Kali, use their support community.
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1894[15:52:38] <tyzef> ubuntu is also on debian
1895[15:52:45] <petn-randall> …
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1897[15:52:53] <greycat> s/on debian/not debian/
1898[15:53:00] <petn-randall> LTCD: You did read the factoid, didn't you?
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1900[15:53:28] <jelly> half the distros are based on debian now, but we can't be arsed to learn all the tiny differences and best ways they do things
1901[15:53:49] <petn-randall> LTCD: Because your response tells me you didn't, or you didn't understand it and didn't ask for clarification.
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1907[15:54:25] <greycat> petn-randall: His dismissive and insulting use of "bro" was more than enough for me to recognize his type and /ignore him on the spot.
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1909[15:54:54] <Vonor> hey hey. i don't want to install too much graphical stuff on one of my systems. but i need a browser on that box that i will only access via ssh with x-forwarding. Was looking at otter and wexond in appimage format already, but both are dynamically linked and require a lot of library dependencies. would anyone know an alternative that comes statically linked?
1910[15:55:27] <greycat> Statically linking the libraries does not save you disk space over dynamically linking the same libraries.
1911[15:55:39] <greycat> Static linking usually INCREASES total disk space.
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1913[15:55:47] <petn-randall> Vonor: Most browsers don't run well with X11 forwarding, btw.
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1915[15:56:22] <greycat> If you need the HTTP traffic to go through your remote system, you'd be better off running the browser locally and using an ssh -D SOCKS proxy.
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1917[15:57:07] <Vonor> greycat, it's not the diskspace that i am worried about. it's the amount of libs i need to install for just one app
1918[15:57:18] <greycat> Why is that a concern?
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1926[15:58:31] <Vonor> it's my nas system and i'd prefer to keep it as clean as possible. yet it's the only box i have running @home currently and need to change some settings on my cable modem :P
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1929[15:59:03] <greycat> And somehow you think that installing 160 MB in a single package is "cleaner" than installing 160 MB in 20 packages?
1930[15:59:14] <greycat> (Numbers totally made up.)
1931[15:59:38] <LTCD> greycat: Sorry for saying bro.
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1935[16:00:18] <LTCD> Sorry never wanted to upset anyone, I will see myself out.
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1938[16:01:52] <Vonor> greycat, appimage doesn't install anything.
1939[16:02:26] <hicks> Vonor: use an SSH tunnel via that box to the modem
1940[16:02:32] <greycat> What "appimage" is, neither dpkg nor judd knows about it. Sounds like you're not using Debian.
1941[16:02:34] <hicks> run browser on local machine using localhost then
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1948[16:04:02] <hicks> I don't recall the exact switches but ssh -L localhost:8000:modem_host_ip:80 user@nasip
1949[16:04:04] <Vonor> greycat, replaced-url
1950[16:04:05] <hicks> is close
1951[16:04:09] <greycat> hicks: use ssh -D instead.
1952[16:04:53] <jelly> LTCD: you didn't upset anyone, we're just elitist pigs that don't want to learn about bugs introduced in kali that just aren't present on debian; if you're able to reproduce the issue on an actual debian we can try to help but in this case you'll be able to just install debian with full disk encryption from the start so... yeah.
1953[16:04:54] <greycat> ssh -N -D 9999 me@server and the in the browser, set up the SOCKS proxy at localhost 9999.
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1955[16:05:30] <hicks> greycat: will -D allow you to make the destination be on a different host to the machine you're sshing into?
1956[16:05:31] <jelly> do we have a factoid for
1957[16:05:34] <jelly> !luksipc
1958[16:05:41] <hicks> as I assume he wants PC->nas->modem for the tunnel?
1959[16:05:43] <greycat> hicks: Yes. Allows full browsing of the entire Web.
1960[16:06:02] <hicks> ok :)
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1972[16:15:09] <LTCD> jelly: I could have installed from start on Kali but I forgot oh well
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2020[16:43:26] <SanchoPensa> hey guys!
2021[16:43:26] <SanchoPensa> i haven't been using virtual machines in awhile, so what would be currently way to go? KVM, QEMU, Xen..?
2022[16:45:06] <rudi_s> SanchoPensa: I'd say KVM (with Qemu) and libvirt (if you run multiple VMs regularly).
2023[16:45:26] <themill> using virt-manager if you want a clicky interface
2024[16:46:33] <SanchoPensa> rudi_s: themill: thank you very much, gentlemen! :)
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2050[16:59:32] <dob1> hi, I would like to monitor a directory (subdirectory etc) and check if some files are moved/deleted/created. I don't need to check if file contents change. I don't need to do this in "realtime", just to know if at some point there were changes
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2064[17:03:55] <karlpinc> dob1: Use the "incron" package for more-or-less real-time. It's a pain to debug but works -- in so far as inotify works, which is not guarenteed. Otherwise: mv -f /var/tmp/foo /var/tmp/foo.old; ls -lh /some/dir > /var/tmp/foo; diff -u /var/tmp/foo.old /var/tmp/foo
2065[17:04:33] <karlpinc> dob1: Or cmp instead of diff if you don't care about detail.
2066[17:05:12] <karlpinc> dob1: Maybe /var/lib/mystuff/ instead of /var/tmp/.
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2069[17:07:20] <dob1> karlpinc, as I said I just care about deleted/newly created files/ (moved) If I take a tree of the directory at start and then I take it again later and compare it, it can works? not a good solution but maybe faster
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2084[17:13:05] <karlpinc> dob1: That works. You can use "ls -R". The BSDs have mtree for this sort of thing, but I'm not sure that's on Linux.
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2088[17:16:59] <epsilon> dob1: tree, find ./
2089[17:17:15] <epsilon> both with options to show files or directory
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2093[17:19:29] <karlpinc> epsilon: I forgot about find. *doh*
2094[17:19:40] <greycat> dob1: you could do something like find . -type f -newer ... Nope. Nope, scratch that. You also said "deleted". TOTALLY different problem now.
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2097[17:20:17] <greycat> dob1: what are you REALLY trying to do?
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2101[17:20:38] <karlpinc> (Always a good question. :)
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2103[17:22:51] <greycat> because if the actual goal is "keep a backup of this directory in another location, minimizing I/O as much as possible", then just use rsync.
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2107[17:24:24] <dob1> greycat, check after sometime if in this directory there are new files/deleted (moved)
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2109[17:24:29] <dob1> *some time
2110[17:24:39] <karlpinc> dob1: Why?
2111[17:24:56] <dob1> I want to know if a program write in this directory
2112[17:25:07] <greycat> Again, why?
2113[17:25:34] <karlpinc> dob1: (You would ordinarily look at the mtime of the directory to determine if it was written to.)
2114[17:25:58] <greycat> I mean, sure, you could take a LITERAL approach to answering the question, which would be "make a backup copy of the directory using rsync, then later, use rsync --dry-run to see if there are any changes"
2115[17:26:04] <greycat> But that may not meet the REAL goal, whatever that is.
2116[17:26:09] <dob1> because this dir is rsync from a remote dir, if this program modifies files in this dir I will broke the sync between the remote/local dir
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2118[17:26:31] <dob1> in practice I want to test if this dir remains the same, that's all :)
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2120[17:26:58] <greycat> So, how does "rsync in cron" not satisfy your needs?
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2123[17:27:31] <dob1> I can't use it on the real dir, I am testing on a copy of it
2124[17:27:39] <karlpinc> HA! A job for selinux! Prevent that nasty program from writing to the directory structure by force!
2125[17:28:21] <dob1> I don't think it's so a strange request, or it is?
2126[17:28:28] <greycat> All I'm seeing is "I want the remote dir to be in sync with the local dir", and the solution "rsync in cron" and the rejection "blah blah blah blah".
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2129[17:28:52] <greycat> I can't understand any of your rejection talk at all.
2130[17:29:13] <greycat> Sounds like you're just throwing random words at the internet because you don't want the simple and direct and obvious answer.
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2132[17:29:47] <greycat> You have a specific answer in mind that you WANTl, and you will keep rephrasing the question until someone gives you that answer.
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2134[17:31:07] <dob1> greycat, ok, I understand your advice, but the copy dir I am testing is on another pc. I have to run this program more and more times, then copy the dir to the pc where the original dir is and the do the rsync dry run. It's ok, just I was thinking something more fast
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2138[17:31:44] <jelly> how is rsync NOT fast?!
2139[17:32:06] <greycat> maybe he has a quadrillion files
2140[17:32:19] <bites> you could do a find . > ../oldtree in that directory, then do find . > ../newtree again later and diff ../oldtree ../newtree
2141[17:32:26] <greycat> in which case, obviously, NOTHING will be fast
2142[17:33:00] <renso> good morning, any can tellme a program that can be used to show a picture, and with the keyboard, can go to another pic (like menus), go and back like navigate betweens menus ??? thanks in advance
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2146[17:33:50] <petn-randall> !tell renso -about crosspost
2147[17:34:02] <petn-randall> renso: You already got an answer in the other channel you asked.
2148[17:34:02] <dob1> anyway I thank you for the suggestion, I will go to the rsync way, I just don't like to copy the files to an usb hdd and to connect it to the original pcs
2149[17:34:29] <renso> thanks, cant see it, in linux you say ?
2150[17:34:49] <petn-randall> "in Linux"?
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2152[17:34:57] <greycat> petn-randall: "which of the hundred and twenty other channels did YOU see it in"
2153[17:34:58] <petn-randall> renso: Which distro and release are you running?
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2155[17:35:55] <renso> debian 9, can be for another if necesary
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2157[17:36:17] <greycat> "I will tell you whatever lie I think you want to hear to make you answer me"
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2159[17:37:02] <renso> i simply dont know the category of the software that im looking for, that is why im asking here
2160[17:37:02] <petn-randall> renso: then just install 'eog'.
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2162[17:37:55] <renso> thats a visor for pictures, i need a software like, make menu with pictures and navigate in menus and submenus
2163[17:38:16] <greycat> I'm still stumped by "picture menus" plus "keyboard".
2164[17:38:33] <greycat> How would the illeterate user understand what key to press to activate which picture?
2165[17:38:47] <petn-randall> renso: So ... you want to learn programming?
2166[17:39:00] <renso> for example, label vactions, press num1, all photos from vactions, num2 to get back to the last menu, (super basic example)
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2168[17:39:19] <Akuw> hi
2169[17:39:22] <petn-randall> renso: Try not to use abstract examples. Tell us about the problem you're trying to solve.
2170[17:39:26] <petn-randall> hi Akuw
2171[17:39:30] <Akuw> i just installed mariadb
2172[17:39:32] <greycat> I don't understand the keyboard part at all. Why not click them with the mouse?
2173[17:39:47] <Akuw> once installed i try to login mysql -u root -pmypass
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2175[17:40:11] <Akuw> ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)
2176[17:40:15] <renso> ok, is for a terminar pc without mouse, to show pictures, and let the user navigate between infographics, with a special buttons (arduino interface). like a public pc that only have 5 buttons
2177[17:40:45] * petn-randall didn't know that Debian ran on Arduinos.
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2180[17:41:13] <renso> forgot that part, arduino simple conect to pc to make input posible
2181[17:41:28] <petn-randall> renso: Then eog sounds like the tool you want. Just dump all the infographics into one folder, open the first file, and map those buttons to left/right arrow keys.
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2183[17:41:42] <petn-randall> renso: Or am I missing something?
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2185[17:42:03] <renso> the part that can be like menus
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2188[17:42:24] <renso> if i want a slideshow, i know that can be with impress or something similar
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2190[17:42:42] <petn-randall> renso: And how do you want to navigate those menus?
2191[17:42:48] <Akuw> i asked in maria chanel but they told me to ask here
2192[17:42:52] <petn-randall> With those buttons?
2193[17:43:05] <petn-randall> Akuw: Running `mysql` as root should give you access.
2194[17:43:26] <renso> example. num1 to 1menu, num2 to 2menu, num3 to 3menu. num4 to back.
2195[17:43:33] <Akuw> i try but got sam error
2196[17:43:51] <petn-randall> renso: Sounds like you want to do some programming. I wouldn't know of a tool that does just that.
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2198[17:44:07] <petn-randall> Akuw: *exactly* the same error?
2199[17:44:33] <Akuw> ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)
2200[17:44:48] <jelly> Akuw: which debian release is this?
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2202[17:45:09] <Akuw> Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l
2203[17:45:19] <jelly> Akuw: and did you install mariadb-server package from debian's repo, or some package from some other repo?
2204[17:45:21] <renso> Akuw: mysql -u root -p yourpasscode dont work ?
2205[17:45:26] <Akuw> no
2206[17:45:33] <Akuw> repo
2207[17:45:33] <petn-randall> Akuw: Why does it say "using password: YES" if you don't provide one?
2208[17:45:46] <greycat> Funny, when I type "mysql" with NO ARGUMENTS as root on my stretch machine that has a mariadb on it, I just go straight into the MariaDB [(none)]> prompt.
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2210[17:45:56] <jelly> Akuw: what petn-randall meant was to run just "mysql" without other options, as root
2211[17:46:00] <petn-randall> ^ Same here
2212[17:46:01] <Akuw> when i dont provide i got ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)
2213[17:46:06] <renso> petn-randall: thanks for your time
2214[17:46:14] <petn-randall> renso: you're welcome
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2216[17:46:32] <Akuw> running this way mysql i got ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)
2217[17:46:48] <jelly> Akuw: and that's from a root shell, where "id" command says uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) ?
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2220[17:47:33] <Akuw> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) grupos=0(root)
2221[17:47:41] <jelly> weird
2222[17:47:54] <jelly> (it's supposed to Just Work for root user)
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2227[17:48:46] <jelly> (it being Debian's own package; not some build from mysql.com or other)
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2229[17:48:48] <Akuw> yes, it is strange
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2231[17:49:41] <apollo13> log into as debian-sys-maint and check the assigned privs
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2243[17:54:38] <Akuw> jelly: what do you think is the problem?
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2245[17:55:33] <jelly> Akuw: no idea, I don't have any experience with debian 9 mysql server default setup, but apollo13's comment was for you
2246[17:55:53] <Akuw> what i have to check sorry
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2248[17:56:07] <Akuw> apollo13: specifically what i have to check
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2264[18:00:39] <apollo13> Akuw: I no longer use mysql, but there is a privlieges table which says who can connect from where…
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2268[18:01:21] <apollo13> that said, apparently the debian-sys-maint user does not exist anymore?1
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2272[18:01:49] <apollo13> you'll need to manually start mysql in single user mode to get to that data then I guess
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2300[18:14:16] <Akuw> i used sudo mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables --skip-networking &
2301[18:14:17] <Akuw> mysql -u root
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2305[18:17:37] <RoyK> Akuw: not mysql_safe, just mysqld
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2307[18:17:54] <RoyK> Akuw: not mysqld_safe, just mysqld
2308[18:18:04] <RoyK> just fg that and kill it
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2310[18:18:09] <Akuw> 10.1.26-MariaDB-0+deb9u1
2311[18:18:18] <Akuw> just did it to try to change password
2312[18:18:32] <RoyK> Akuw: mysqld --skip-grant-tables --skip-networking
2313[18:18:42] <Akuw> localhost | root | *A294441C38B03BE12E32771ADDF7976B0DDB8164 | *1476EFAE7496266BDFB7CA0604C4A36B93420F77 |
2314[18:18:58] <Akuw> host | user | password | authentication_string
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2366[18:33:57] <k3rn3lpan1c> suddently out of blue sudo got removed? running debian stretch 9.4, anyone else exerience the same? i had to reinstall sudo
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2380[18:39:13] <jelly> k3rn3lpan1c: not really. Check your /var/log/apt* and /var/log/dpkg.log for clues
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2383[18:40:45] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: Which release of Debian are you running?
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2390[18:42:35] * jelly offers petn-randall reading glasses with CORRECT dph
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2392[18:43:09] * petn-randall headdesk
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2394[18:43:25] <jelly> NO, that's how glasses get broken!
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2396[18:43:55] <petn-randall> That's how I broke them in the first place, I presume.
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2407[18:49:34] <k3rn3lpan1c> 2018-05-18 06:11:44 remove sudo:amd64 1.8.19p1-2.1 <none> & libreoffice-style-galaxy:all 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4 <none> both got removed?
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2409[18:49:54] <k3rn3lpan1c> I'm running stretch 9.4
2410[18:50:13] <jelly> there's context before and after that.
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2414[18:52:23] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: Can you paste the whole entry to replaced-url
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2419[18:54:35] <k3rn3lpan1c> sure will paste it shortly, looks like, Commandline: /usr/bin/unattended-upgrade is the culprit, why though?
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2426[18:58:12] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: We'll be able to tell you when we see that paste.
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2430[19:01:41] <Tywin> Kinda offtopic, but does anyone know how I can strip JS from a PDF? Any such tools in the repo?
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2476[19:14:14] <k3rn3lpan1c> @petn-randall, I'm not able to paste it, tells me "Could not add your entry to the paste database: Invalid format for name (no special chars, max 10 chars)" - please advise
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2489[19:19:29] <k3rn3lpan1c> Now I grabbed this from the my syslog, "May 22 10:10:47 blockchain evolution-sourc[3174]: secret_service_search_sync: must specify at least one attribute to match". Does anyone know what's secret service search maybe?
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2493[19:21:01] <jelly> the authors of "evolution-sourc" probably do
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2495[19:21:28] <jelly> google the text of the message.
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2547[19:48:35] <hmuller> What's the current best practice for automounting USB storage?
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2551[19:49:59] <fatcyclist> Hi guys I just set up Apache::Gallery using apt-get. It works a treat. The issue I have is that the version in the .deb doesn't support mp4 format videos. The last update on it in CPAN is from 2011 but the github project is updated about once a month. What I want to do is make an updated .deb and setup my own repo for just that .deb. How do I do that?
2552[19:50:00] <tijeretas__> hmuller: There are several depending on what your environment ist. I.e., desktop environments will have something automatically for that. I use udevil in i3, etc.
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2560[19:52:54] <hypn0> in thunar they should mount, pcmanfm too
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2563[19:53:52] <tijeretas__> yeah, thunar and pcmanfm can be used standalone without their respective desktop environments. spacefm is an even better option for pro needs.
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2565[19:54:52] <hmuller> tijeretas__: Thanks for the input. I used to do automounting with udev rules, and when that broke I resorted to manually mounting. Time to figure it out again.
2566[19:56:21] <Akuw2> i am getting this W: Error de GPG: replaced-url
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2568[19:56:28] <Akuw2> when run apt-get update
2569[19:56:34] <Akuw2> how can i get rid of that
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2571[19:57:00] <hypn0> there is gnome-disk-utility too hmuller
2572[19:57:21] <hmuller> It looks like it can be done with a polkit rule to allow wheel users to mount without a password and a systemd unit file ...
2573[19:57:28] <jelly> Akuw2, remove that non-debian repo from your apt configuration?
2574[19:57:34] <tijeretas__> hmuller: then udevil might be for you. it's basically a wrapper around udev
2575[19:57:53] <jelly> Akuw2, it's somwhere in /etc/apt/sources.list*
2576[19:57:57] <Akuw2> sources.list ?
2577[19:58:12] <hmuller> hypno: I'm gnome free, mostly. using a simple openbox setup. going to toy with i3 next.
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2579[19:58:22] <hmuller> hypn0: ^^^
2580[19:58:54] <Akuw2> ok
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2582[19:58:55] <Akuw2> finish
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2584[19:59:01] <hypn0> its a nice gui :-) an easy life
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2586[20:00:21] <hypn0> I'm trying to use blackbox too, haven't got It working :-)
2587[20:00:35] <hmuller> off to do some testing, will be back later to report on success/failure ...
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2596[20:02:20] <fatcyclist> I'm getting this now:
2597[20:02:21] <fatcyclist> Can't stat /usr/local/lib/site_perl: No such file or directory
2598[20:02:23] <fatcyclist> at /usr/share/perl/5.20/App/Cpan.pm line 1234.
2599[20:02:24] <fatcyclist> It looks like I have some bogus cpan hing installed. How can I get rid of it?
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2624[20:11:07] <Tywin> Am I reading this right? I can't ignore the "The following packages have unmet dependencies:" notice?
2625[20:11:40] <greycat> apt-get does not allow you to break your computer
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2627[20:12:09] <Tywin> Well, this is definitely the last straw
2628[20:12:21] <Tywin> I'm going back to archlinux
2629[20:12:38] <phogg> Tywin: If you *want* to break things that's where you should go.
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2633[20:13:14] <phogg> Tywin: that said there's no reason you can't break Debian, too. It's just not going to let you do it without some more effort.
2634[20:13:40] <tijeretas__> Tywin: replaced-url
2635[20:13:42] <fatcyclist> I did it! you can too!
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2637[20:13:51] <phogg> Tywin: tell me: what is the point of installing a package which definitely will not work because things it needs are missing?
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2640[20:14:26] <Tywin> phogg, the package in question (ncmpcpp) is working fine without the library it's complaining about (libboost-regex)
2641[20:14:26] *** Joins: Schepeers_ (~xchat@replaced-ip)
2642[20:14:43] <DammitJim> What is the best way to have a highly available smtp server?
2643[20:14:47] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
2644[20:14:56] <DammitJim> LB -> smtp1 + smtp2 ?
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2646[20:15:17] <Tywin> tijeretas__, I tried modifying the /dpkg/status file and it still isn't working
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2648[20:15:49] <Tywin> I can't install anything new if I don't solve that dependency false-positive error
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2650[20:16:14] <Tywin> Note: I'm on sid and the versions are different
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2652[20:16:30] <phogg> Tywin: Well there's your problem
2653[20:16:58] <greycat> "Stable works too well! It's too boring! I need more excitement!"
2654[20:17:01] <Tywin> phogg, ncmpcpp works fine. It's the package manager that's broken.
2655[20:17:05] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2656[20:17:43] <jelly> DammitJim, a LB can be as simple as two MX records for the domain.
2657[20:17:44] <phogg> Tywin: No. It's the either the package which has incorrect dependencies or the repo which doesn't have every package that is needed. Either can happen sometimes with sid, that's why users should not use packages from sid.
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2660[20:18:18] <phogg> Tywin: the package manager is telling you the truth: the package said it needs a dependency and you don't have it. Therefore the package cannot work, therefore it will not install it when you ask. That's correct.
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2663[20:18:43] <Tywin> Well, if it's either "don't use sid" or "use stable", then I'm out of here. The immense amount of stress just isn't worth it.
2664[20:18:54] <DammitJim> is there such a thing as a clustered mail queue (on 2 or more servers)?
2665[20:18:58] <greycat> Bye.
2666[20:19:05] <phogg> Tywin: If you want to *help develop debian* you can alter the package dependencies and rebuild the package in to one that does not require or depend on libboost. Happy to have your help.
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2668[20:19:29] <phogg> Tywin: if you do not want to *help develop Debian* then *stop using sid*.
2669[20:19:48] <Tywin> phogg, I actually rebuilt the package without the "Depends:" and it's still complaining about broken dependencies
2670[20:19:58] <phogg> it's not a newer release with fresher packages, it's where things get broken sometimes
2671[20:20:17] <Tywin> libboost-regex1.62.0 : Breaks: ncmpcpp (< 0.8.1-1+b2) but 0.8.1-1 is installed
2672[20:20:27] <phogg> Tywin: then something else in the dep chain also declares a dependency on the same package. Welcome to packaging.
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2676[20:21:01] <greycat> ,v ncmpcpp
2677[20:21:02] <judd> Package: ncmpcpp on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.5.10-1.1; jessie: 0.5.10-2; stretch: 0.7.4-1+b3; buster: 0.8.1-1+b1; sid: 0.8.1-1+b1
2678[20:21:03] <phogg> Tywin: then don't install that package (or start talking with the package maintainers about the situation)
2679[20:21:14] <greycat> sounds like fun
2680[20:21:18] <Tywin> phogg, way too much of a hassle
2681[20:21:27] <phogg> Tywin: I agree. Stick to stable, that's what *works*.
2682[20:21:39] <phogg> Tywin: if you need newer stuff on top of stable gets some backports
2683[20:21:45] <jelly> ,v ncmpcpp
2684[20:21:46] <judd> Package: ncmpcpp on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.5.10-1.1; jessie: 0.5.10-2; stretch: 0.7.4-1+b3; buster: 0.8.1-1+b1; sid: 0.8.1-1+b1
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2686[20:21:58] <k3rn3lpan1c> petn-randall: posted logs to replaced-url
2687[20:22:23] <greycat> Your other choice is to wait for the fixed version of ncmpcpp or of libboost-regex1.62.0 to be uploaded.
2688[20:22:32] <jelly> Tywin, so that Breaks currently breaks all the releases. You seem to be in the middle of a transition
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2690[20:22:41] <phogg> might already be somewhere and just waiting to enter sid
2691[20:23:04] <jelly> just in case noone's pointed it out yet,
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2693[20:23:06] <phogg> sid transitions are fun. Especially when it's libc
2694[20:23:07] <greycat> Having CHOSEN to run sid, you CHOSE to deal with such transitions and breakages.
2695[20:23:07] <jelly> !debian-next
2696[20:23:08] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2697[20:23:16] <DammitJim> jelly, and what kinda of smtp software should I use?
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2699[20:23:41] <jelly> DammitJim, the one you're able to configure and maintain
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2704[20:24:21] <DammitJim> so, like exim4?
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2706[20:24:44] <jelly> DammitJim, as a mail admin, I'd advise against hosting smtp yourself. It's a pain. Pay a reputable service.
2707[20:24:45] <DammitJim> (that's the limited experience I have), but I'm doubting myself because I think I've only set it up as a relay
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2710[20:25:03] <DammitJim> I appreciate that jelly
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2712[20:25:18] <DammitJim> (your opinion)
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2715[20:26:08] <DammitJim> wanna have a good laugh?
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2718[20:27:21] <DJVG> Hey all. I'm having a weird IPv6 issue with a machine. It's running 4.9.82-1+deb9u3 as kernel and e1000 driver version 7.3.21-k8-NAPI for networking, there's no firewall running but ip6tables is loaded. IPv6 works fine for a while but it suddenly stops, It still sees it's neigbors as reachable for a while but they go stale after a couple of mintues. When this happens there's no more icmp6 or other ip6 traffic on the interface.
2719[20:27:26] <jelly> I'm told exim4 is nice, but am a postfix person myself
2720[20:27:38] <DJVG> I'm able to resolve it by running sysctl ipv6_disable and enable it again
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2723[20:28:25] <DJVG> The router is still sending ND/RA but nothing is received by the host (checking with tcmpdump).
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2725[20:28:39] <DJVG> Other hosts on the same VLAN don't have this problem
2726[20:28:53] <jelly> DammitJim, also, it's never just smtp, you probably want mail delivered someplace, and users probably want to be able to read it, too
2727[20:29:01] <rant> I have a tiny handheld remote that has a keyboard and touchpad its laid out in a way I could use it as a game controller with two directional pads on either side but the one side is MM keys.. what would be a simple way to remap this, preferably only for this device without remapping my other keyboard?
2728[20:29:12] <rant> the game doesnt support MM keys..
2729[20:29:15] <greycat> jelly: pesky users!
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2731[20:29:26] <DJVG> It's running debian 9.4 by the way
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2734[20:30:08] <DammitJim> jelly, you hit it on the nail... I'm just getting warmed up with this concept... we had a server outage last night and our SMTP vm was down for an hour and now they want me to set up redundancy for that service because applications we develop need to sent out emails
2735[20:30:09] <jelly> DammitJim, and then they want to send some of it, and have it delivered reliably to nasty huge providers like yahoo, goog or microsoft (live.com/hotmail/outlook.com)
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2737[20:30:31] <greycat> oh, OUTGOING smtp... well that's tons and tons easier
2738[20:30:35] <DammitJim> anyways, we'd have to migrate from... get this... IBM Notes to something else
2739[20:30:41] <jelly> DammitJim, if it's just an outbound smtp server it's a lot more simple
2740[20:30:58] *** Quits: baconicsynergy (~baconicsy@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2741[20:31:10] <DammitJim> oh, I'm glad I clarified...
2742[20:31:22] <jelly> just configure and have two, and fix your SPF (and/or dkim, dmarc if any)
2743[20:31:41] *** Quits: dayten (~gnoid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2744[20:31:47] <DammitJim> ok, you just spoke Vulcan to me. I'm not a Vulcan, I'm a doctor
2745[20:32:03] <DammitJim> have 2 postfix servers, jelly?
2746[20:32:11] <jelly> sure
2747[20:32:20] <rant> wasn't that vulcan on star trek a doctor?
2748[20:32:33] <DammitJim> what is spf, dkim, dmarc?
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2751[20:33:32] <jelly> magical acronyms that relate to telling other servers where mail from your domain REALLY comes from, and what it looks like, and if it doesn't look exactly like that it's fakey fake
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2753[20:34:14] <DammitJim> ah, so things like... smtp1.dammitjim.com and smtp2.dammitjim.com
2754[20:34:24] <DammitJim> but not mail.dammitjim.com
2755[20:34:57] <jelly> SPF is a whitelist of sources for mail coming from a domain, it's a DNS TXT record in a specific format
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2760[20:37:31] <jelly> dmarc (and previously dkim) are cryptographic additions, signatures on parts of message that prove the sender is really who they say they are
2761[20:37:45] <jelly> having those things improve deliverability
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2764[20:38:55] <jhutchins_wk> Also not having a residential IP address.
2765[20:39:15] <DammitJim> no, that's a different problem I had a while back jhutchins_wk ;)
2766[20:39:53] <DammitJim> where does one define these spf and dmarc?
2767[20:39:54] <jelly> and if you're sending out lots of mails, you probably want to set up a feedback loop
2768[20:40:08] <jhutchins_wk> There are also ranges at some ISPs that are blocked because they're mostly "amateur" accounts rather than commercial.
2769[20:40:11] <DammitJim> Network Solutions? (they are our DNS)
2770[20:40:19] <jelly> DammitJim, one does a web search for those technologies
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2772[20:40:32] <DammitJim> thanks jelly I"ll take it from here, then
2773[20:40:40] <DammitJim> replaced-url
2774[20:40:44] <jelly> SPF is easy, a dns record wherever dns for your domain is hosted
2775[20:41:14] <jelly> dmarc can be implemented in sending apps, or as a filter on the outbound servers
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2777[20:41:45] <jelly> I don't know of any open-source feedback loop software, but haven't looked hard.
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2782[20:43:30] <jelly> DammitJim, there's probably more than one way to skin that HA cat. A floating IP with keepalived might do, if you're able to write good enough checks to detect when the other peer is dead
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2784[20:44:29] <jelly> or if you can detect the whole VM died, you might just restart it on the same or different VM host
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2786[20:44:39] <DammitJim> someone was telling me that I need to synchronize the mail queues on the different smtp servers
2787[20:44:44] <DammitJim> is that really necessary?
2788[20:45:08] <jelly> or if your apps are sane and can be configured to send to more than one smtp host, then just have two
2789[20:45:44] <DammitJim> jelly, that last one is a wonderful idea, but I know it won't fly here *sigh*
2790[20:45:47] <DammitJim> we pick our battles
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2792[20:46:12] <karlpinc> DammitJim: (FWIW, I've always liked postfix. Simple where it needs to be and powerful enough to do anything.)
2793[20:46:26] <karlpinc> jelly: What do you mean "feedback loop"?
2794[20:46:28] <DammitJim> ty
2795[20:46:59] <jelly> karlpinc, replaced-url
2796[20:47:11] *** Quits: rephlexie (~rephlexie@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2797[20:47:49] <jelly> automated management of reports of spam/abuse coming from your own source
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2800[20:49:07] <karlpinc> If your apps are running on Unix hosts run a MTA locally and have the apps deliver to the MTA. The MTA should be able to failover to an alternate outbound SMTP server by doing DNS lookups and using MX records. Pretty sure you could make postfix do this -- although the proof is in the pudding.
2801[20:49:09] <jelly> before that, bounce messages (non-delivery reports) were commonly the only thing automatically managed
2802[20:49:17] <karlpinc> jelly: Thanks.
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2804[20:50:21] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: Great. What is the link?
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2806[20:50:49] <karlpinc> (Might even happen automaticlly. I forget if "relayhost" uses MX records for delivery or if there's a syntax, like [] around the name, that forces this.
2807[20:51:07] <jelly> this is automated mostly because if you're sending any kind of volume out, your abuse people will be flooded by abuse reports even if you care about opt-in and being very careful. People don't unsubscribe and forget what they agreed to, they just report your messages as spam.
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2810[20:51:40] <karlpinc> jelly: Right. Dealing with people. (Ugh. ;-)
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2812[20:52:41] <jelly> postfix can't do anything but it can do most sane things you'd expect a MTA to
2813[20:52:48] <jelly> s/anything/everything/
2814[20:53:38] <karlpinc> DammitJim: A local MTA would be easisest, IMO. At least you're messing around with a single technology. (Do the apps sending mail run on Unix?)
2815[20:54:08] <karlpinc> jelly: Hey, don't be a hater. Postfix made me tea just the other day!
2816[20:54:42] <jelly> (and can said apps be reconfigured to use localhost as SMTP server instead, or even /usr/sbin/sendmail)
2817[20:55:06] *** Joins: slv (~slv@replaced-ip)
2818[20:55:25] <jelly> (even if they can't, a little creative iptables can do wonders)
2819[20:55:39] <jelly> (don't do that tho)
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2822[20:56:52] <jelly> configuring iptables to route outbound connections to different places based on eg. uid of process will make the admin coming after you VERY confused
2823[20:58:32] <karlpinc> jelly: Seriously, because you can write a custom transport and route to it the stupidity you can introduce is practically unlimited.
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2829[21:01:57] <DammitJim> man, you guys know your stuff
2830[21:02:04] *** Quits: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2831[21:02:09] <DammitJim> I need to sit down with my team and get the requirements down
2832[21:02:30] <DammitJim> I was just talking to one of the guys and they are like: Oh yeah, 7 years ago we set up all these rules for different mail to go to different places
2833[21:02:41] <DammitJim> I'm like... what? I need a requirements document
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2835[21:02:48] <DammitJim> to even know what I'm replacing
2836[21:02:59] <DammitJim> and figuring out if this is even covering what they think needs to be redundant
2837[21:03:02] <DammitJim> (HA)
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2843[21:08:43] <k3rn3lpan1c> petn-randall: replaced-url
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2848[21:11:46] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: I don't really know why unattended-upgrades would do that. Can you share your config with us?
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2851[21:12:34] <k3rn3lpan1c> petn-randall: sure what config are you referring to?
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2858[21:14:24] <helmut> hi. is there a useful thing to do when a system that has always worked reliably has a hang in i915 with a full call trace after upgrading to stretch? what is preferred for debian kernels? reporting upstream or bugs.d.o?
2859[21:16:04] <helmut> google doesn't seem to know that traceback so it likely is "new" in a sense (4.9 is what stretch ships)
2860[21:16:34] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2861[21:16:41] <petn-randall> helmut: So you get a kernel panic with a full backtrace?
2862[21:17:36] <helmut> petn-randall: a WARN_ON with a full traceback written to disk and then a partial system freeze (userspace seems to mostly hang, some things e.g. ping continue to work)
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2866[21:18:28] <petn-randall> helmut: And that reproducibly doesn't happen with the previous kernel?
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2868[21:18:57] <helmut> petn-randall: it certainly didn't happen with jessie kernels as jessie didn't have that code, yes. :)
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2871[21:19:11] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades
2872[21:19:22] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2873[21:19:38] <helmut> petn-randall: I just wonder whether dumping the traceback into bug report is useful given the number of bug reports against linux
2874[21:19:49] <petn-randall> helmut: Oh, so it happened with the upgrade from jessie to stretch? Or one of the bugfix updates within stretch?
2875[21:20:00] <helmut> petn-randall: jessie -> stretch triggered it
2876[21:21:05] *** Quits: yareckonirc (~yareckoni@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2877[21:21:06] <petn-randall> helmut: I see. IIRC i915 was already a kernel module in jessie. You can try booting specifically the jessie kernel to debug the issue.
2878[21:21:15] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2879[21:21:58] <helmut> petn-randall: well, the jessie kernel doesn't exhibit it. it's also not reproducible reliably, so I can dissect it easily. the question is: what useful thing can I do with the knowledge that it randomly crashes once in a while?
2880[21:22:42] <petn-randall> helmut: the kerneloops daemon can report those things upstream.
2881[21:23:06] <petn-randall> helmut: If you're interested in getting rid of the problem, you can try updating the intel-microcode package, and also using a backports kernel.
2882[21:23:18] <helmut> maybe it is "we cannot fix it, ignore it". maybe it is reportbug linux-image-4.9.0-6-686-pae. maybe it is mail $(./scripts/get_maintainer.pl drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_gem.c)
2883[21:23:32] *** Quits: orti (~orti@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2884[21:23:41] <k3rn3lpan1c> petn-randall: here it is, replaced-url
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2887[21:24:57] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: //Unattended-Upgrade::Remove-Unused-Dependencies "false";
2888[21:24:58] <helmut> petn-randall: I'm more interested in a proper soltion than a workaround. if that isn't achievable, so be it.
2889[21:25:20] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2890[21:25:26] <petn-randall> k3rn3lpan1c: That is commented out, so I wonder why it still has effect. Maybe somewhere else this is set in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/?
2891[21:25:55] <jelly> helmut, #intel-gfx are the maintainer
2892[21:25:56] <helmut> replaced-url
2893[21:26:09] <helmut> jelly: k. will ask there thank you
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2895[21:26:32] <jelly> I mean for upstream. They will probably want you to try a less ancient kernel, too
2896[21:26:40] <jelly> ,kernels
2897[21:26:41] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.16.0-rc6-686 (4.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 4.16.0-1-686-pae (4.16.5-1); buster: 4.16.0-1-686-pae (4.16.5-1); stretch-backports: 4.16.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.16.5-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-6-686-pae (3.16.56-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
2898[21:26:42] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.101-1)
2899[21:26:57] <petn-randall> helmut: How do you know? Did you revert the patch and the problem went away?
2900[21:27:04] <jelly> helmut, it's easy to install the one from stretch-backports, for example
2901[21:27:05] <petn-randall> helmut: You can always try that, of course.
2902[21:27:46] <jelly> helmut, but seeing as you're running a 32bit kernel, which cpu and gpu is that, something older than 8-10 years?
2903[21:27:56] <helmut> jelly: yes
2904[21:28:06] <helmut> jelly: the device is at least 11 years old
2905[21:28:37] <jelly> because IME video-intel people stop caring about hw more than 3+ generations in the past
2906[21:28:46] <helmut> jelly: I think I originally installed lenny on it. :)
2907[21:29:14] <jelly> helmut, then I'd suggest not bloody using modesetting or 3d on it at all
2908[21:29:28] <helmut> I don't think it has any 3d.
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2910[21:29:44] <jelly> which cpu model?
2911[21:30:36] <helmut> T1350
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2914[21:31:03] <jelly> replaced-url
2915[21:31:19] <helmut> very likely
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2917[21:32:09] <jelly> first and a half generation Core branded
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2921[21:32:45] <helmut> if you say "forget about it and get a new laptop", I won't be offended. I really meant to ask whether there is something useful to do here
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2923[21:33:51] <jelly> acknowledge linux and esp. video-intel gets regressions for old hw; choose whether you want to pursue the issue or not
2924[21:34:14] <helmut> ok. what is the good way to pursue (besides #intel-gfx)?
2925[21:34:27] <petn-randall> helmut: You could bisect the issue.
2926[21:34:44] <helmut> petn-randall: difficult due to the low probability
2927[21:34:46] <jelly> you'll have to deal with them one way or the other, be it over linux mailing list or irc
2928[21:34:57] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2929[21:35:05] <helmut> jelly: i.e. upstream, not bugs.d.o, correct?
2930[21:35:08] <petn-randall> helmut: Well, that's all the options you have.
2931[21:35:10] <jelly> yes
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2933[21:35:26] <helmut> ok. I'll not pester benh then. thank you.
2934[21:35:47] <jelly> but all intel gpu before sandybridge are kind of known to be very buggy (in both silicon and software)
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2936[21:36:21] <helmut> and for newer ones we don't know that they are buggy yet, right? ;)
2937[21:36:29] <jelly> and so software loses some of the workarounds over time and exposes the bugginess inherent in the system
2938[21:36:38] <jelly> helmut, no, they're actually better
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2940[21:37:19] <jelly> the sandybridge thinkpad from 2011 I'm wriitng this on hasn't crashed once
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2943[21:37:41] <jelly> and there's an opengl compositor and DE running
2944[21:37:52] <jelly> (not Debian, tho)
2945[21:38:09] <helmut> cannot confirm. some kernel upgrade broke all of 3d support on a hd graphics 530 here. I don't care too much as I don't use any 3d, but it's annoying to always remember to pass --disable-gpu to chromium
2946[21:38:10] <petn-randall> boooo, burn the heretic!
2947[21:38:34] <petn-randall> helmut: x230 works without a hitch here, too.
2948[21:38:50] <petn-randall> helmut: Just remember to update the bios + intel-microcode.
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2950[21:39:18] <jelly> helmut, 530 is new enough it might get fixed if you work with intel gpu people
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2952[21:39:48] <jelly> that's like skylake?
2953[21:39:52] <helmut> it is
2954[21:40:17] <jelly> yeah, so they probably still care about it
2955[21:40:35] <helmut> 3d being broken is a whole different story to a partial system freeze. so I don't care, sorry.
2956[21:41:41] <jelly> right. I spent 2008-2011 carefully juggling which 2d, 3d and video decoding features I was using
2957[21:42:24] <helmut> I can still compile most of debian without any 3d, so that's fine. :)
2958[21:42:56] <jelly> sometimes opengl for video worked, sometimes xv did, sometimes suspend broke everything, sometimes hibernation did, sometimes things worked better with XAA or EXA or UXA
2959[21:43:33] <rant> if I just put an InputDevice section in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ will that be included? historically you rolled this all into a layout section but by default with no config it deosnt have a layout
2960[21:43:34] <jelly> then I said fuckit, bought a desktop and put a nvidia in
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2964[21:45:45] <jelly> petn-randall, but x230 has an inferior keyboard layout
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2970[21:46:21] <petn-randall> jelly: works fine for me, and I type a lot on it.
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2984[21:50:10] <jhutchins_wk> rant: The trend is toward config fragments in the .d subdirectory.
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2987[21:50:55] <rant> jhutchins_wk: yes I just didnt know how they got read in if there is no layout if it would just know to include them in default
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2990[21:51:33] <jhutchins_wk> rant: Do I reacall correctly that the sections are in []? Should just need the section header.
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2994[21:52:11] <rant> jhutchins_wk: thats in conffile format sections are in [] X has always used the Secion keyword
2995[21:52:29] <rant> Section "Input Device" ... EndSection
2996[21:52:42] <rant> more like basic or pascal than conffile format
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2998[21:52:49] <k3rn3lpan1c> petn-randall: is there any specific file you want me to look under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/? I'm still perplexed by this action of my sudo and libreoffice being uninstalled w/o a reason? who knows what else got uninstalled.
2999[21:53:00] <jelly> rant, customization should probably go to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d (mkdir if it doesn't exist)
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3001[21:53:50] <jelly> /usr/share is a "no writes here". Unless you have no other choice
3002[21:53:52] <rant> jelly: I understand all that.. I just dont know if Xorg would know Section "InputDevice" belonged anywhere if there is no Section "Layout"
3003[21:53:57] <Tenkawa> k3rn3lpan1c: the logs are in /var/log
3004[21:54:20] <jelly> rant, if it's a separate Section and not a SubSection, don't see why not
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3006[21:54:29] <Tenkawa> apt keeps its logs there too of package installs/removes too if i remember correctly
3007[21:54:49] <petn-randall> jelly: k3rn3lpan1c Well, the log tells you exactly what got removed. For me it looks like you set it to autoremove, there's no other reason I can think of that would remove packages.
3008[21:54:59] <petn-randall> s/jelly://
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3010[21:55:12] <helmut> petn-randall, jelly: thank you. reported to intel-gfx@l.fd.o
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3033[22:07:45] <k3rn3lpan1c> Jelly: I haven't configured it to autoremove is what driving me crazy?
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3037[22:09:49] <Tenkawa> k3rn3lpan1c: autoremove isnt always "your" choice
3038[22:09:59] <Tenkawa> its a depedency of the package
3039[22:10:03] <jelly> k3rn3lpan1c, perhaps autoremove is enabled by default for unattended-upgrades
3040[22:10:26] <greycat> jelly: it's commented out by default in the config... not quite sure what the default is
3041[22:10:50] <Tenkawa> jelly: it could be getting grabbed by dependency couldnt it?
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3043[22:10:51] <jelly> no idea; it had other issues previously and I don't trust or use it
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3047[22:11:31] <Tenkawa> k3rn3lpan1c: which one is disappearing?
3048[22:11:37] <Tenkawa> one(s)
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3050[22:12:01] <greycat> I disabled the whole concept of "autoremove" by configuring apt to blacklist literally every package from autoremove consideration.
3051[22:12:05] <k3rn3lpan1c> Tenkawa: sudo & libreoffice got removed
3052[22:12:13] <Tenkawa> ok just a sec
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3058[22:14:16] <petn-randall> greycat: There's also just a true/false setting for that.
3059[22:14:21] <Tenkawa> go look in /var/log/apt
3060[22:14:29] <Tenkawa> scan those logs
3061[22:14:30] <greycat> wooledg:~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local
3062[22:14:31] <greycat> APT::NeverAutoRemove ".";
3063[22:14:56] <Tenkawa> the history.logs might give a little more detail
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3065[22:15:32] <kot> nice tip, greycat. thanks.
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3068[22:16:47] <Tenkawa> also I know if you manually apt-get a package that was set to auto-remove it use to override that behaviour... doesnt it still do that?
3069[22:17:48] <Tenkawa> because if you let your list grow
3070[22:18:05] <Tenkawa> then accidently run apt-get autoremove.. poof
3071[22:18:13] <Tenkawa> there goes packages
3072[22:18:32] <Tenkawa> i've uninstalled stuff inadvertently that way before
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3074[22:18:55] <Tenkawa> if you apt-get it it resets the trigger
3075[22:19:02] <jelly> how do you accidentally run "apt-get autoremove"
3076[22:19:21] <jelly> aptitude, OTOH, does autoremove as a free action by default, thass nasty
3077[22:19:24] <Tenkawa> jelly: no.. i mean i accidently removed packages
3078[22:19:26] <greycat> In my case, it ran itself when I tried to cancel out of tasksel. Then I filed a bug report on that.
3079[22:19:34] <Tenkawa> that i didnt mean to grab
3080[22:20:18] <jelly> but yes, apt-get install foo unmarks the auto flag for foo
3081[22:20:28] <Tenkawa> yep
3082[22:20:32] <k3rn3lpan1c> Tenkawa: Is there a way to disable this fucntion for autoremove? I have pasted replaced-url
3083[22:20:34] <jelly> because you literally told apt you wanted foo
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3086[22:21:08] <Tenkawa> ugggh i hate the weather here
3087[22:21:10] <Tenkawa> sorry
3088[22:21:16] <Tenkawa> had to be said
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3092[22:22:16] <Tenkawa> k3rn3lpan1c: that i do not know offhand
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3094[22:22:49] <k3rn3lpan1c> this is simply crazy that it would autoremove w/o user's consent, specially when I haven't said to autoremove or configured it.
3095[22:22:49] <greycat> The default /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades is almost entirely comments ( the only non-comment line other than section delimiters is "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename},label=Debian-Security"; )
3096[22:23:03] <Tenkawa> k3rn3lpan1c: i don't mess with the core apt files much unless i need to so I dont break it
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3101[22:24:02] <k3rn3lpan1c> greycat: I couldn't locate /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local
3102[22:24:11] <greycat> It's one that I created.
3103[22:25:12] <k3rn3lpan1c> greycat: w/ just this line in it? APT::NeverAutoRemove ".";
3104[22:25:17] <greycat> yes
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3108[22:28:52] <cluelessperson> is there an apt-cacher-ng specific channel?
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3110[22:29:06] <cluelessperson> I'm trying to figure out how to add other repos to be cached. :)
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3112[22:29:43] <k3rn3lpan1c> greycat: pardon my ignorance but how the system know to use 99local?
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3114[22:30:41] <greycat> It uses all the file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ in the order specified by their numbers (glob sorting).
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3136[22:40:49] <k3rn3lpan1c> greycat: thanks, sounds like this may the fix...headscratcher, the fact i've done anything to tell the system to autoremove and out of nowhere apps gets uninstalled...does anyone on the development team have anything to sayor provide further insight. This is bothersome, sorry venting
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3139[22:41:05] <greycat> I'd call it a workaround rather than a fix, but if it helps, great.
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3141[22:41:34] <k3rn3lpan1c> thanks greycat
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3171[22:54:27] <nyk> I just installed debian stable on my laptop using an USB netinstall stick. As usual, after removing the USB stick, it doesn't boot, because the HDD is not sdb, but sda now. I am now in the initramfs, because boot failed. How can I change the grub config to sda?
3172[22:54:50] <nyk> I mean the HDD is sda now, not sdb (sda was the USB stick)
3173[22:55:18] <Tenkawa> did you not install grub to hard drive?
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3175[22:55:52] <nyk> Tenkawa: yes, I installed grub to the hdd, but it's sda now, not sdb, as in the grub config
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3178[22:56:14] <Tenkawa> did you take defaults or type it in?
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3181[22:56:19] <greycat> I'm still puzzled, *what* grub config has /dev/sd* in it instead of root=UUID=...
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3185[22:56:30] <Tenkawa> greycat: good point
3186[22:56:38] <Tenkawa> I'm thinking old style
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3189[22:57:12] <nyk> greycat: I dont know
3190[22:57:20] <Tenkawa> either way I'm confused how it ended up on sdb without typing it in
3191[22:57:43] <nyk> I get ALERT! /dev/sdb1 does not exists. Dropping to a shell!
3192[22:58:00] <greycat> sounds like something inside the initrd, but why...
3193[22:58:05] <Tenkawa> nyk: boot the usb stick to recue mode
3194[22:58:10] <Tenkawa> er rescue
3195[22:58:59] <Tenkawa> nyk: what kind of machine is it?
3196[22:59:15] <Tenkawa> greycat: I'm wondering if it could be a strange uefi setup
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3204[23:02:10] <nyk> Tenkawa: I selected to install it on sdb1
3205[23:02:21] <Tenkawa> no..
3206[23:02:30] <Tenkawa> you need to install it to /f\dev/sdb
3207[23:02:31] <nyk> Tenkawa: it a thinkpad x61s
3208[23:02:32] <Tenkawa> er
3209[23:02:35] <Tenkawa> /dev/sdb
3210[23:02:41] <nyk> ah yes
3211[23:03:06] <greycat> You installed on a PARTITION?!
3212[23:03:09] <nyk> Tenkawa: yes, I can use the usb stick, true, then change it in grub, and reboot. Should work
3213[23:03:14] <nyk> nono... not sdb1
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3215[23:03:29] <Tenkawa> yay finally cooling off outside
3216[23:03:34] <Tenkawa> "some"
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3222[23:05:40] <Tenkawa> you created a partition for /boot and one for / right?
3223[23:05:59] <Tenkawa> (minimally)
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3231[23:11:02] <dna> wonder if there is a way to install neomutt on Debian jessie
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3238[23:14:40] <annadane> ,v neomutt
3239[23:14:41] <judd> Package: neomutt on amd64 -- buster: 20180323+dfsg.1-1+b1; sid: 20180323+dfsg.1-1+b1
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3241[23:15:09] <annadane> i'd say "compile it blah blah" but i've stopped offering advice like that as i don't know how complicated it is per-program
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3244[23:15:30] <annadane> feels a bit like "solution is left an exercise to the reader"
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3247[23:17:45] <annadane> there's a factoid for this, i just don't remember what it is
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3294[23:44:50] <jhutchins> ,v alpine
3295[23:44:51] <judd> Package: alpine on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.02+dfsg-2; jessie: 2.11+dfsg1-3; stretch: 2.20+dfsg1-7; buster: 2.21+dfsg1-1+b1; sid: 2.21+dfsg1-1+b1
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3299[23:48:44] <tuxmartin> Hi, I have problem with Spotify client. It saving a lot of files with media cover images to /tmp. I'm using /tmp for everyday working and these files are confusing.
3300[23:48:50] <tuxmartin> Hi, I have problem with Spotify client. It saving a lot of files with media cover images to /tmp. I'm using /tmp for everyday working and these files are confusing.
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3303[23:49:46] <tuxmartin_> I wrote to Spotify support - is not possible to change this location.
3304[23:49:52] <tuxmartin_> Is there any way how to redirect "/tmp" for example to "/tmp/spotify"? But app cannot know about it.
3305[23:49:54] <tuxmartin_> I tried someting like "export TMP=/tmp/spotify" without success.
3306[23:51:04] <tuxmartin_> In strace of spotify binary is only: stat("/tmp", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|S_ISVTX|0777, st_size=73728, ...}) = 0
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3312[23:54:22] <fassl> you probably could make a chroot for it or even a docker container
3313[23:54:55] <tuxmartin_> I tried docker but I had problem with sound - not working.
3314[23:55:10] *** Quits: ben_roose (~roose@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3315[23:55:44] <fassl> and with chroot where you just bind everything except tmp?
3316[23:58:10] <tuxmartin_> I tried snap version of spotify replaced-url
3317[23:58:44] *** Quits: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip) (Quit: Quit)
3318[23:58:45] <tuxmartin_> I have not tried chroot.
3319[23:59:00] *** Quits: otih (~otih@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3320[23:59:14] *** Quits: briner_ (~briner@replaced-ip) (Quit: briner_)
3321[23:59:48] <fassl> i guess if they hardcode /tmp in their app you are out of luck changing environment variables
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