Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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43[00:28:22] <krumelmonster> I get no network interface in initramfs. Rescue-shell via break=rootmount will give no output for ifconfig and tell me no network devices for ipconfig. I have enabled the LAN kernel module that works for ethernet after boot and verified it shows up in lsmod in my rescue shell.
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46[00:30:58] <krumelmonster> nvm, I should have used ifconfig -a
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51[00:33:25] <nse> Hi, guys. I am having trouble running Electricsheep. I've just downloaded the package from Wheezy and corrected the dependencies. But, when I run it a certain error appear: "[avi @ 0x72a260] max_analyze_duration reached". I just don't know what to do. Can you guys help me? That's it, my friends. I hope you're having a good time. Good time for all and embraces.
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62[00:37:28] <mvaenskae-laptop> bug: i thought i should mention the version used as this affects possible updates and such :)
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67[00:40:47] <iflema> nse: "from wheezy" for wheezy? "corrected dependencies"? Who did you install it?
68[00:41:16] <iflema> s/Who/how
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80[00:48:18] <nse> iflema: From Wheezy, iflema. I've entered the Debian website and just downloaded the package. I am on Stretch and there were lots of dependencies to correct manually. I did this and the package was correctly installed. But I get this error message. I've installed just this way. I downloaded the .deb and corrected the dependencies manually. But the Electricsheep just doesn't work. Do you have any ideas on how to go round this. That's it,
81[00:48:18] <nse> iflema.
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94[00:59:38] <iflema> nse: what about compiling from source? replaced-url
95[01:00:30] <iflema> nse: or reaching out to them for support?
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149[01:36:49] <bigMouthCommie> i have a funny partition scheme that was causing some problems due to / becoming full. to remedy this, i cp'd the contents of /usr (my biggest root dir by far) to another, much larger partition, and mounted it to /usr. however, i'd like to remove the old /usr dir from the / partition. how do i do that?
150[01:37:56] <bigMouthCommie> for reference / is sda5 and /usr is now on sda8. i have tried umounting /usr but it's in use (of course)
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159[01:43:20] <Devor> }
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162[01:46:41] <bigMouthCommie> been a few joins since my question...
163[01:46:49] <bigMouthCommie> i have a funny partition scheme that was causing some problems due to / becoming full. to remedy this, i cp'd the contents of /usr (my biggest root dir by far) to another, much larger partition, and mounted it to /usr. however, i'd like to remove the old /usr dir from the / partition. how do i do that?
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174[01:52:22] <bug> bigMouthCommie, if sda8 is mounted as /usr, the old /usr on sda5 is no longer in use. just delete it or whatever.
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177[01:55:11] <holycow> hi all
178[01:55:30] <holycow> anyone knof of a script to compile gimp 2.10.0 as a statci local install on debian 9?
179[01:55:47] <holycow> it requires too many dependencies that are only in sid and I don't want to upgrade.
180[01:56:25] <holycow> google results are a bit effusive in that either someone is compiling either on sid or compiling some old version that has most of the dependencies in the current version of their distro
181[01:57:16] <chamaeleon> I never compile gimp but i'm pretty sure have many dependency
182[01:57:16] <bigMouthCommie> bug i couldn't figure out how to get to it, but another channel helped
183[01:57:29] <holycow> it
184[01:57:49] <holycow> gimp dependencies are quite long
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188[01:58:21] <chamaeleon> just why is better to use repository then compile
189[01:58:48] <iflema> nse: so you can download a zip file from eletricsheeps git hub page or use git to clone the source code repository and download it
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191[02:00:01] <iflema> nse: I do not use eletric sheep but you may have some joy building it from source.
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196[02:01:51] <iflema> chamaeleon: updates. You would have to do manually, you may forget it or parts of it are there and may run into trouble later on.
197[02:02:08] <iflema> chamaeleon: or let the package manager handle it
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199[02:02:50] <iflema> chamaeleon: dependencies it pull in may run amuck
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207[02:03:46] <iflema> oh... sorry
208[02:03:49] <iflema> :D
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210[02:05:31] <phinxy> How would I know if nvidia-drivers is available for linux-image-4.15?
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221[02:11:39] <patterson> What ever strijes your fancy
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224[02:11:52] <patterson> Don't over think it
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226[02:12:56] <patterson> Good show
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319[03:32:56] <bleb> oi is it still possible to get access to oldoldoldoldstable packages
320[03:33:32] <bleb> like lenny or squeeze
321[03:34:13] <abrotman> archive.debian.org ?
322[03:34:33] <awal1> replaced-url
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339[03:51:19] <bleb> abrotman: thanks
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460[05:55:15] <jair> hello there, anyone is running debian in lxc? I get a couple of vms running debian 9 stable and buster but when try to install the lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter and I try to connect using nomachine I get all sort of errors about xsession...
461[05:55:49] <jair> I am deffinitely misisng something about the way how Linux configure the window managers
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471[06:04:02] <karlpinc> jair: Running X over the network must be turned on. I forget the details. If that's what nomachine does -- I think so but could be wrong. You could try looking in the /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/README.Debian{.gz} file. I seem to recall instructions there.
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473[06:04:49] <karlpinc> jair: For the nomachine package or the display manager packages...
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511[06:28:31] <jair> hello karlpinc thank you for the information, sorry for the delay response
512[06:28:48] <jair> karlpinc: running x over the network...
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514[06:29:10] <jair> karlpinc: let me check
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517[06:33:31] <jair> karlpinc: hmm I think I am a bit confused. for example. when I install debian in a virtual machine for example, virtual box, the greeter, X everything get installed fine when I select the window manager and greeter, for example gnome gdm3 etc...
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520[06:35:14] <jair> but if I am running containers, lxd/lxc I install the linux system and all goes fine just as on virtual box, however when I try to connect to the system using nomachine (nx) I get this error about: xsession unable to start x session no /home/user/.xsession
521[06:36:03] <somiaj> what is nomachine? if using the remote as an xserver, you should use an xclient. Any reason you want to use a gui on the guest? What gui app are you trying to run? What os are you running from?
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538[06:47:23] <karlpinc> somiaj: nomachine is a vnc-like thing, but uses X. I think. Or does not use X in some clever way. I recall it being kinda cool but never used it.
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546[06:52:54] <somiaj> karlpinc: ahh, yea thought it was some vnc like thing, and sounds like the whole enviorment isn't setup correctly
547[06:53:25] <somiaj> jair: anyways, if all you need to do is run a gui app locally, I find ssh + xforwarding a nice way to do that.
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549[06:53:41] <somiaj> (though this is an alternative to configuing the nomachine vnc server correclty)
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557[06:57:21] <karlpinc> jair: Yes. A basic test would be to run "ssh -X you@yourvm xeyes". (You might have to install the xeyes package.) Then you'd see "something".
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568[07:08:39] <darxmurf> morning
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664[08:36:13] <v0idpwn> Hey. I've been using debian for some time and I installed too many packages. I'm with about 1650 now. I want to remove the ones that I don't use, but I can't remember them. Is there a good way to check this kind of stuff?
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674[08:38:58] <Hooloovo0> v0idpwn, I recently went through my packages and removed the ones I didn't use
675[08:39:18] <Hooloovo0> it took around 2 hours, for a similar number of packages as you
676[08:39:30] <karlpinc> v0idpwn: "aptitude search '~i'" will show you installed packages. The ones with an "A" in the 3rd character can be ignored, they are the ones installed automatically. There's a way to keep aptitude from showing you these, but you'd have to read the documentation (in html :-P) to find out how.
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682[08:40:26] <v0idpwn> So long... ;_;
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707[08:54:59] <date_night> v0idpwn: You can try `deborphan --guess-all`
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721[08:58:06] <date_night> I have 1388 packages
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737[09:05:53] <daggs1-work> Greetings, is it possible to take debian testing's kernel and install it without any issues on debian stable?
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745[09:08:20] <date_night> daggs1-work if you want testing packages why not just track testing instead of stable?
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747[09:09:05] <daggs1-work> date_night: the machine in question supposes to be a production server, I want it to be stable as possible
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749[09:09:17] <daggs1-work> I need support for a device that doesn't exists in 4.9
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760[09:11:53] <bug> ,v linux
761[09:11:54] <judd> No package named 'linux' was found in amd64.
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763[09:13:23] <date_night> daggs1-work: I only started using linux fairly recently so probably doable but I don't think it is recommended
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772[09:16:37] <dracc> Is it possible to define multiple rules inside one udev-rule-file?
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780[09:18:21] <dracc> I have an xbox (2001 version) duke controller connected through usb. I want to make sure that both entries in /dev/input have 0666 permission, and that the second "keyboard" device that it provides has 0000. Do I need multiple files in /etc/udev/rules.d ?
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783[09:19:05] <daggs1-work> date_night: I hoped it is as simple as other distros
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793[09:21:23] <date_night> daggs1-work: I used to use Stable, use apt-pin and got firefox from unstable, but overtime, the updates pulled more and more packages from unstable
794[09:21:28] <bug> linux kernel 4.15 is available in stretch-backports, daggs1-work. replaced-url
795[09:21:47] <date_night> daggs1-work: Then I was like stuff this, Ill just upgrade to unstable
796[09:23:30] <karlpinc> daggs1-work: Use the kernel in backports if you want something newer.
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802[09:24:48] <karlpinc> daggs1-work: You could also build your own kernel with just that driver, if you cared to. There's a section on kernel building in the manual at debian.org.
803[09:25:04] <nirakara> hi. i've installed a kernel from stretch-backports -- is there a way to identify which kernel this is and remove it?
804[09:25:33] <nirakara> i've tried googling but my google'fu isn't up to scratch it seems.
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806[09:25:45] <karlpinc> nirakara: "aptitude search '~ilinux-image'" will show you installed kernels.
807[09:25:54] <daggs1-work> karlpinc: I think I'd better just poll the latest kernel becase the adapter is usb3 and I don't know what other fixes are part of 4.15 and no part of 4.9
808[09:26:30] <dracc> karlpinc, omg, TIL about "~i". Thank you!
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810[09:27:03] <karlpinc> nirakara: You could also just "ls /boot". :)
811[09:27:17] <nirakara> karlpinc: this is the output. how do i ID backported kernels? (replaced-url
812[09:28:02] <karlpinc> dracc: aptitude has a bunch of useful sorts of package matching like that. But you have to read the docs in html.
813[09:28:26] <karlpinc> nirakara: They would have "bpo" in the package suffixes.
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815[09:28:57] <dracc> karlpinc, Thanks for the advice, I'll dig deeper into that next time I figure I'll need it. :D
816[09:29:12] <karlpinc> nirakara: Humm.
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818[09:29:57] <nirakara> karlpinc: none of that output (replaced-url
819[09:30:00] <karlpinc> nirakara: use "apt-cache policy $PKGNAME" on the different packages to see what source repo they came from.
820[09:30:48] <karlpinc> nirakara: There's also a "-t" option to aptitude that does something with the repo but I forget how to use it. (I think apt-get has the same option, maybe.)
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822[09:32:24] <karlpinc> nirakara: Humm. I guess -t does not work with searching.
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826[09:33:53] * karlpinc wonders if the debian wiki does not have something about the best way to get newer kernels.
827[09:33:59] <nirakara> karlpinc: here is some sample output from `apt-cache policy $PKG` (replaced-url
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830[09:35:53] <karlpinc> nirakara: With kernels you want to not only remove them, but purge them. then you can reboot. (Assuming you're running one of these newer kernels. Otherwise no need to reboot.)
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833[09:36:13] <bug> nirakara, boot into the kernel you want to keep and then uninstall the other one(s).
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835[09:36:32] <karlpinc> nirakara: ! Yes. Don't remove a kernel you are running. (Sorry)
836[09:36:39] <nirakara> bug: karlpinc, going to try bug's method and revert
837[09:36:41] <nirakara> brb
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871[09:47:01] <nirakara> thanks to karlpinc and bug for the tips. successfully running on the stable kernel :)
872[09:47:11] <nirakara> so headers install without backport issues, thxgawd
873[09:47:33] <nirakara> and wireguard is guarding meh wires
874[09:47:42] <bug> congrats
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1016[11:19:15] <r3m1> hello
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1018[11:19:32] <r3m1> i have a server with /var partition full because of a very large log file
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1020[11:19:53] <r3m1> I need to fix my logrotate, and will do. can I simply delete the log file ?
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1022[11:20:18] <r3m1> shall I restart rsyslog service after doing that ?
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1024[11:21:19] <Ool> r3m1: yes but, better to stop the verbose service before
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1032[11:26:42] <bolt> If the file is still open in the process, the space will not be freed until the process is stopped
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1041[11:30:39] <Haohmaru> i got an mp3 player plugged via USB, it appears as a mass storage device and charges its battery.. is there a way to "eject" it so that it doesn't work as mass storage (but keeps charging) ?
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1044[11:31:31] <Haohmaru> (because when it's in mass storage mode, it cannot play music)
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1051[11:36:01] <BCMM> Haohmaru: does the "eject" command work on it?
1052[11:36:15] <BCMM> Haohmaru: i mean, on the command line - eject /dev/sdX
1053[11:36:30] <BCMM> IIRC that worked on the iPod Classic
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1061[11:39:36] <luna_> not every day you have to SSH into a Russian Debian installation
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1064[11:41:56] <bolt> Haohmaru: if you're not using it for other stuff, you might be able to unload the usb-storage module
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1066[11:42:05] <bolt> bit of a crude solution, if that
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1069[11:42:24] <Janni> Hello.
1070[11:42:29] <bolt> Haohmaru: it's not mounted, right?
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1073[11:44:16] <Janni> I was wondering, is there a way to have every output of every command be redirected to some file? I'm hoping of having the following functionality: after executing whatever command in the shell, some keyboard combination gives me access ot that commands output, for instance by opening a file containing the output in my favourite editor.
1074[11:44:29] <Janni> I'm talking bash here, btw.
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1076[11:45:06] <bolt> Janni: tee?
1077[11:45:08] <Janni> Or does anyone know of a way to achieve something similar?
1078[11:45:09] <bolt> Janni: script?
1079[11:45:18] <bolt> Janni: those are commands, btw.
1080[11:45:34] <Janni> bolt: No, I'm not talking about a specific command of which I know beforehand that I need its output.
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1082[11:45:47] <Janni> I'm talking about ANY command than I EVER type in the shell.
1083[11:46:04] <bolt> Run script on login?
1084[11:46:15] <Janni> So I can AFTERWARDS say. Oh yes, let's have a closer look at that output, let's edit it, let's search in it.
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1086[11:47:19] <Janni> You know, I often find myself doing this: execute some command, decide that I need to take a closer look, re-execute the same command piping its output into a file...
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1088[11:48:07] <Janni> So I was wondering if there was a good shortcut to this (optimally not needing to execute the command a second time as the output might be different now)
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1090[11:48:34] <bolt> script.
1091[11:48:40] <Janni> bolt: script would allow me to scroll through all output but wouldn't give me pratictal access to ....
1092[11:48:52] <Janni> bolt: Really? All right, I'll RTFM.
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1098[11:50:45] <Janni> bolt: Alright, I'll stick with script for now. It's close enough to what I want. Thanks.
1099[11:50:59] <Janni> replaced-url
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1107[11:57:02] <Haohmaru> bolt it's not mounted
1108[11:57:33] <Haohmaru> i tried eject but it still is aware that it's connected to a computer/host and doesn't go back to the player mode
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1116[12:03:40] <bolt> Haohmaru: unload module
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1137[12:18:47] <Haohmaru> :/
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1139[12:18:52] <Haohmaru> i'll wait for it to charge
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1141[12:20:29] <bolt> Haohmaru: maybe not a solution for you, but you can search eBay for "charging cable", or "charging adapter for usb". One is a cable with only power leads, and the other is a small female to male usb plug that, again, only transmits power. It's useful for those situations, and when you only have access to a computer you don't trust to charge your phone or something. I always carry one.
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1143[12:21:38] <Haohmaru> i got a dumb charger like that, but i forgot it in the other office..
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1145[12:22:27] <Haohmaru> it's a bit surprising that you can't tell linux to "stop talking to a usb device"
1146[12:22:37] <Haohmaru> i mean, not easily
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1149[12:22:56] <Haohmaru> i'm sure someone will prove me wrong by using some black magic config files or something ;P~
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1152[12:23:18] <bolt> I'd be genuinely surprised if you couldn't. I just don't know how :) Perhaps you can put an option in modprobe.d to make the usb-storage module ignore that device id?
1153[12:23:33] <bolt> might be worth a google search
1154[12:23:48] <Haohmaru> yeah, that's what i meant with "black magic" x_x
1155[12:23:56] <bolt> black list, at least :D
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1157[12:25:38] <BCMM> Haohmaru: depending on the device, it is entirely possible that what you're trying to do is impossible
1158[12:26:05] <BCMM> for example, the mere presence of d+ and d- pins might be enough
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1160[12:26:35] <Haohmaru> oh, well..
1161[12:26:54] <BCMM> i mean, impossible in software. there's always stuff like replaced-url
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1163[12:27:03] <BCMM> (or just butchering a spare USB cable)
1164[12:27:09] <Haohmaru> sure..
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1166[12:27:33] <bolt> BCMM: that would mean "smart chargers" would have the same effect on it though
1167[12:27:49] <bolt> BCMM: those where negotiation about voltage and power consumption takes place
1168[12:27:53] <BCMM> bolt: i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, for an old enough mp3 player
1169[12:28:08] <Haohmaru> it's old.. probably 10 year old by now
1170[12:28:16] <bolt> BCMM: hm. good point.
1171[12:28:18] <Haohmaru> philips go-gear
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1174[12:28:56] <bolt> "Nobody will ever make a charger you can talk to, so if something is at the other end, it's a computer"
1175[12:29:04] <bolt> -some dude 10 years ago
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1177[12:29:26] <Haohmaru> >:)
1178[12:29:48] <Haohmaru> why didn't they make USB connectors in such a way that you can insert it "half-way" ;P~
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1180[12:29:51] <BCMM> i mean there's few enough devices *now* that play nice with all the different types of so-called "smart" charger
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1182[12:30:27] <Haohmaru> i think only the ground pin is longer
1183[12:31:01] <Haohmaru> oh wait, maybe i'm wrong
1184[12:31:16] <BCMM> i think 5v and 0v are both longer
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1186[12:31:53] <BCMM> you might be thinking of the fact that usb devices are electrostatically grounded before anything else connects?
1187[12:31:59] <BCMM> (but that's done by the plug's metal body)
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1206[12:48:08] <hans_> every single time i try to report a false positive on the spam filter on paste.debian.org , the email has been ignored. has anyone ever experienced that he has responded to a spam filter false positive report?
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1208[12:48:23] <hans_> it's been like that for years
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1210[12:49:00] <jelly> no, but I don't remember ever seeing what a detected spam looks like
1211[12:50:04] <hans_> jelly, my latest example, this is detected as spam: replaced-url
1212[12:50:46] <hans_> (so i had to use something else, like paste.fedoraproject.org instead of paste.debian.net )
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1214[12:51:10] <jelly> nod. I see it now
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1229[13:02:44] <hans_> jelly, also sent 1 report in 2015, and several reports in 2016, but all emails were ignored
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1329[14:03:27] <c|oner> what's the most common and/or faster remote desktop server for debian? VNC appears to be builtin but with short passwords and just 'okay' performance
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1357[14:19:37] <karlpinc> c|oner: The fastest is probably X11 itself.
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1361[14:21:07] <c|oner> I'll try x2go
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1363[14:21:45] <karlpinc> c|oner: Of course you'll want to run X over a trusted network. I don't konw about x2go.
1364[14:22:41] <karlpinc> c|oner: Is x2go Qt4 only?
1365[14:22:54] <karlpinc> (Sounds a bit limiting.)
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1375[14:31:26] <Kelsar> karlpinc: X is not fast, not even on local networks
1376[14:31:56] <Kelsar> nowadays it is roughly the same as VNC anyways, since no modern toolkit uses X primitives anymore
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1378[14:32:09] <Kelsar> c|oner: x2go is not bad
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1381[14:32:45] <noodlepie> Hiya guys! All good today?
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1410[14:45:19] <c|oner> alright, xrdp it is. This is one compatible with RemotiX
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1440[14:59:16] <jollyjester> hello!
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1477[15:14:18] <sysx1000> Hello. Could someone help me with iproute 2? I have two PS4 here and I want to forward their traffic over faster channel. I have prepared routing table there, I called it sony.out. I also made some prerouting rules for iptables; these rules marks all packets from ps4 with mark 1
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1481[15:14:59] <sysx1000> then I added rule on a router ip ro add default via fast.router dev ppp0 table sony.out
1482[15:15:26] <sysx1000> and then, I am trying to add routing rule: ip ru add fwmark 1 table sony.out
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1485[15:15:47] <sysx1000> once I do that, my router hangs immediately, no packets coming in or out
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1488[15:16:18] <jbetz_> I'm trying to install telegram-purple on a wheezy instance of debian, and it's failing because it's unable to locate the package libgrcypt20-dev. so, I tried installing a jessie version of the package, but it was unable to install due to dependency issues.
1489[15:16:20] <sysx1000> what's wrong?
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1494[15:17:23] <sysx1000> why ip rule add fwmark 1 table sony.out affects all network so badly?
1495[15:17:38] <jbetz_> anyone know a way to get libgcryp20-dev to work on wheezy, or a better way to install telegram-purple?
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1525[15:27:02] <jelly> sysx1000: ask in #Netfilter if noone answers here
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1566[15:34:34] <RoyK> sysx1000: not sure, but have you checked replaced-url
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1570[15:35:30] <tw> sysx1000: I'd check to see which packets are being marked.
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1651[16:02:20] <sysx1000> tw, no matters, what packets are marked or not - it must not hang the router
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1655[16:02:53] <RoyK> sysx1000: what sort of router?
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1658[16:03:11] <RoyK> sysx1000: have you set it up to do syslogging somewhere?
1659[16:03:12] <sysx1000> armbian on pine64
1660[16:03:28] <sysx1000> nothing interestng in syslog
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1662[16:03:54] <RoyK> what about netconsole?
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1665[16:04:19] <sysx1000> netconsole?
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1667[16:04:25] <RoyK> !netconsole
1668[16:04:25] <dpkg> netconsole is a Linux kernel driver which logs kernel <printk> messages over UDP. It is commonly used to capture system crash information. replaced-url
1669[16:04:29] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1670[16:04:41] <tw> sysx1000: hanging the router is as simple as breaking its ability to connect back to the user.
1671[16:04:42] <sysx1000> no netconsole
1672[16:04:47] <RoyK> ok - try that
1673[16:04:55] <RoyK> might be a panic
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1679[16:05:22] <tw> It's a lot more likely that you get it in a state where your ssh/https access is being forced over a misconfigured routing table.
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1681[16:05:26] <sysx1000> tw after that I can't ping any it's interfaces
1682[16:05:36] *** Joins: combro2k (~combro2k@replaced-ip)
1683[16:05:45] <RoyK> sysx1000: try a netconsole, then - it's not hard
1684[16:06:06] <jelly> most of those cards have a LVTTL or TTL serial
1685[16:06:06] <sysx1000> ok, I'll try
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1687[16:06:22] <jelly> s/cards/devices/
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1689[16:06:33] <RoyK> serial might be better, yes
1690[16:06:35] <tw> I'd bet that the device itself isn't hung, you just blew away it's routing table.
1691[16:07:06] <RoyK> tw: shouldn't affect anything on the LAN
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1694[16:07:44] <tw> RoyK: he's messing with policy routing and ip rule, it can completely ignore the default table that is updated when interfaces come up/down.
1695[16:08:04] <jelly> but it might also have a hdmi and usb keyboard console
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1700[16:09:15] <RoyK> sysx1000: seems it should support a serial console
1701[16:09:30] <RoyK> replaced-url
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1704[16:10:48] <sysx1000> RoyK: yes, I have attached my FTDI there now, nothing comes on console, however router is alive ;) only network goes crazy
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1707[16:11:39] <RoyK> sysx1000: you need to tell raspbian to use a serial console, though
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1713[16:13:57] <sysx1000> RoyK: I meant nothing TERRIBLE comes to console ;)
1714[16:14:19] <sysx1000> ok, it seems I have found why it happens, I'll try to fix it now
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1722[16:17:56] <sysx1000> CONFIG_IP_ROUTE_FWMARK is missing in kernel config
1723[16:18:02] <RoyK> sysx1000: btw, some people in here don't like raspbian talks, even if the problems are the same as on debian - #raspbian would be the place ;)
1724[16:18:08] <RoyK> ah
1725[16:18:14] <sysx1000> it's armbian
1726[16:18:18] <sysx1000> not raspbian
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1728[16:18:32] <RoyK> oh - ok - and #armbian is rather deserted last I checked :þ
1729[16:18:34] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
1730[16:18:36] <sysx1000> (i.e. this thing is more debian than raspbian) ;)
1731[16:18:42] <greycat> !armbian
1732[16:18:42] <dpkg> Armbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for several <ARM> processors. Armbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Use replaced-url
1733[16:18:44] <sysx1000> yeah
1734[16:19:13] * RoyK uses armbian with orange pi
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1736[16:19:26] <sysx1000> netfilter, iproute2 however is common
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1738[16:19:55] <RoyK> guess you'll have to compile a new kernel, then
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1741[16:22:20] <dracc> I can't find how to disable joypad-mouse. I've tried putting a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d . I've looked at xinput. I can't figure this out. Please help. :(
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1754[16:25:41] <jelly> RoyK: "some people" in this case is defacto channel policy to route any questions from users of derivative distros to their own support place (for technical and social reasons)
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1756[16:26:47] <ZOP-> tl;dr; I need to fully abort updating udev in a container and my dpkg/apt foo is lacking. Accidentally did an upgrade without correctly pinning down udev and now b/c it *really* wants to finish upgrading udev I can't upgrade anything...
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1758[16:27:08] <ZOP-> Anyone give me a clue by four to make that happen?
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1762[16:27:19] <jelly> ZOP-: which debian release? which command is failing?
1763[16:27:22] <jelly> !bat
1764[16:27:22] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1765[16:27:25] <jelly> ZOP: ^^
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1773[16:31:57] <ZOP> replaced-url
1774[16:32:27] <ZOP> except 215-17+deb8u7 is not the version that needs pinned ... basically the config script fails because it's detecting (Rightly) it's in a container
1775[16:32:48] <ZOP> and since that update/install set will never complete, I can't upgrade anything until I unscrew udev
1776[16:33:34] <ZOP> basically it needs to ignore the error that udev can't start.
1777[16:33:48] <ZOP> I added the Pin *after* I screwed up and did the upgrade
1778[16:34:00] <ZOP> Knew better, just forgot this old container didn't have the pin already.
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1780[16:35:19] <jelly> ZOP: this container has sysvinit, not systemd?
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1782[16:35:43] <ZOP> No, it has systemd.
1783[16:36:11] <jelly> ZOP: does udev otherwise run at all inside that?
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1787[16:37:27] <jelly> if it's systemd, you might try to mask udev-finish and udev services
1788[16:37:50] <jelly> and this suggests it usually doesn't run at all > udev does not support containers, not started.
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1793[16:38:33] <ZOP> Yeah I know, but, you can't have a debian system without udev b/c random packages depend against it, so I can't just remove it/purge it like one would for a "normal" screwed up postinst/configure script.
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1795[16:38:46] <greycat> One might also consider editing udev's postinst script and making it simply do an "exit 0", to allow the upgrade to "complete". And then you can possibly downgrade it?
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1799[16:38:55] <ZOP> like f/ex systemd rdepends on udev.
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1808[16:40:45] <jelly> alternatively if systemctl mask ... fails, you can try to make a policy-rc.d that ignores those two services and see if that makes dpkg happier
1809[16:40:48] <jelly> !policy-rc.d
1810[16:40:49] <dpkg> [policy-rc.d] a mechanism to limit what init scripts are run by maintainer scripts. See replaced-url
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1812[16:41:24] <jhutchins_wk> ZOP: I thought the whole point of containers was that if you mess one up you just delete it and make a new one.
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1814[16:41:44] <ZOP> ok this gives me some places to try which is more than I had, it's the configure script thats erroring out (correctly)
1815[16:42:01] <ZOP> jhutchins_wk: If it wasn't anything production, yes.
1816[16:42:17] <ZOP> meanwhile, in the real world, when you're running real services, you often can't do that.
1817[16:42:43] <jelly> then you're using containers WRONG :-D
1818[16:43:03] <ZOP> It's how native zones with SmartOS work.
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1820[16:43:16] <ZOP> Debian calls em containers/detects it as a container, but, it's not, it's really more of a VM.
1821[16:43:18] <jelly> or "real services" are written WRONG :-)
1822[16:43:35] <ZOP> You can run in true KVM/hw-virt (under qemu) but that's really resource inefficient.
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1824[16:43:50] <ZOP> Which in this case is systemd and it's dependency on udev
1825[16:44:17] <ZOP> and the complete lack of any thinking that lhas led Debian and other distros to using that hot steaming mess of systemd.
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1827[16:44:43] <jelly> it's just a default, you can use sysvinit if you want to
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1830[16:45:08] <ZOP> In the real world, persistent data and configuration is a thing. Even containers as cattle requires persistent services to maintain them.
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1834[16:46:29] <ZOP> Aaaand most services aren't container aware either.
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1844[16:48:59] <ZOP> Aha, postinst checks if the udev-finish init is +x, so chmod -x on that, lets the install/upgrade complete *yay*
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1846[16:49:47] <greycat> Is this a known bug? It sounds kinda like a bug.
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1850[16:52:08] <ZOP> greycat: udev needing pinned is a known issue with containers using Debian (and Ubuntu IIRC) -- this containers base build was from *before* the fix was in the container base images.
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1852[16:52:24] <ZOP> the environment is SmartOS LX Branded Zone
1853[16:52:43] <ZOP> (Solaris actively pretending to be a Linux kernel)
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1863[16:55:12] <ZOP> It's an "old" problem...and only existed fora short window after the deb-8 containers came out...and most of the time you ran into it before you even set anything up/used anything...this one's been in broken half-installed state for like a year, I just haven't had any time to deal with it (personal mail server)
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1865[16:55:51] <setuid> I've found a way to pass answers to a package being installed, using debconf-set-selections before install, but what about packages that don't have interactive prompts? Do I have to use late_commands in a preseed with some sed butchery to make the changes to say... /etc/default/kdump-tools?
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1867[16:56:14] <jelly> ZOP: pinning is likely a hack meant to avoid [re]starting the service you actually don't need. There's probably a nicer way to achieve the same goal, that doesn't make dpkg unhappy
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1870[16:57:07] <ZOP> jelly: yeah, make things not depend on udev that don't actually need it *looks angrily at systemd*
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1872[16:57:17] <jelly> ZOP: I've already mentioned masking the service, or abusing policy-rc.d to make the installation scripts not
1873[16:57:25] <jelly> stop or start anything
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1875[16:57:38] <jelly> pinning is ugly
1876[16:57:41] <ZOP> There's some other stuff too...and most of that doesn't apply to containers. We use the "old school" makedev process.
1877[16:57:49] <noodlepie> Free Music available at replaced-url
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1881[16:58:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
1882[16:58:14] *** Parts: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip) (requested by jelly (no spam in here. #debian-offtopic maybe))
1883[16:58:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
1884[16:58:34] <ZOP> jelly: ty for the ban hammer on the spammer :)
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1886[16:58:54] <karlpinc> setuid: I don't know. I'd guess that setting selections is entirely independent of whether questions get asked. The latter is dependent upon the questions priority and what priority level debconf is using when it runs.
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1888[16:59:49] <ZOP> jelly: and I agree pinning is ugly. But since udev isn't used and doesn't run, and is only installed because of systemd being the init service of choice these days. I haven't checked in any detail the full rdeps for udev but I know it's a silly long list. Mostly things that want it for convenience.
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1892[17:01:00] <sysvalve> hey everyone, question about repository/package signing and keys handling. Is it really needed a centralized unique "signing key", or is it possible to leverage the "trust" features of gpg by signing "package signers" keys by a "top-level trusted key"
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1894[17:01:07] <jelly> ZOP: those should probably reduce their Depends: to Recommends:
1895[17:01:33] <sysvalve> the idea is that multiple people could sign packages, but not using the "master" key. Think of doing similarly as CAs do with HTTPS certificates
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1897[17:01:40] <sysvalve> does it even make sense?
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1900[17:02:01] <ZOP> yeah, if I was actively involved in pkg maint anymore I'd be firing off patches/emails to the active maintainers. Alas, I'm not.
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1903[17:02:14] <jelly> ZOP: but honestly at this point if you have a static /dev you're already so far from Debian, which really stopped supporting that around debian 7 or so
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1906[17:02:34] <jelly> ZOP: you're a user. File bug reports.
1907[17:02:43] <jelly> they're actually emails.
1908[17:03:21] <ZOP> jelly: which is a roundabout way of saying Debian can't be used in containers lol :D
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1914[17:03:54] <greycat> that's not what jelly is saying... not even close
1915[17:03:58] <jelly> ZOP: linux containers have a working udev I think
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1921[17:04:48] <ZOP> maybe with Linux on Docker Linux does, dunno.
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1925[17:05:32] <greycat> My only Debian-in-a-container experience is my wheezy OpenVZ VPS system, and it does not have a (visible) running udev. Not sure how that translates to other kinds of containers.
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1929[17:06:17] <ZOP> The docker based containers I use are all much more containers, SmartOS uses them as containers but also as full up systems...IDK if they'r eth only one thats not Docker Linux though as I'm really not hip these days.
1930[17:06:28] <ZOP> I'm turning into a crotchety greybeard.
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1932[17:06:56] <ZOP> You kids and your containers and your udev and lvm and systemd.
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1936[17:07:36] <nkuttler> there is #docker. what do you need udev for anyway?
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1942[17:08:38] <ZOP> nkuttler: I don't.
1943[17:08:39] <greycat> I think that's his fundamental complaint -- he *doesn't* need udev, not really, but it's a dependency of other packages, so it has to be installed, even though it does not run.
1944[17:08:45] <jelly> ZOP: lvm is older than solaris zones, I think
1945[17:08:47] <ZOP> nkuttler: and neither does systemd which is why it gets installed.
1946[17:08:55] <ZOP> jelly: lol, no, not by a long shot.
1947[17:08:58] <nkuttler> you shouldn't run systemd in docker
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1949[17:09:06] <ZOP> IT's not docker.
1950[17:09:10] <nkuttler> ah
1951[17:09:13] <jelly> HP invented it in what... early 90s?
1952[17:09:30] <ZOP> jelly: I'm talking about Linux' LVM implementation.
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1954[17:09:33] <jelly> and zones were like sunos 5.6?
1955[17:09:36] <jelly> 5.8?
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1959[17:10:17] <ZOP> yeah sw based zones were later. prior to that there was hw assisted, eg in the E10k
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1962[17:11:02] <ZOP> Called domains.
1963[17:11:22] <ZOP> And much lower level really when you got down to it.
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1965[17:12:35] <ZOP> greycat: ++ yup thats exactly it, i don't need it, nothing in a container should need it, but, lots of packages depend it. Very few things should actually depend it IMO...just b/c you access what might be dynamic /dev entries != depend IMO...but, that's my opinion and obv. not the pkg maintainers.
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1968[17:13:38] <jelly> you should proably replace the pinning hack with policy-rc.d or systemctl mask
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1971[17:14:24] <jelly> there's also faking a package with equivs, but those probably won't be good for versioned depends
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1973[17:14:28] <ZOP> like F/ex nut-server, WTF does nut-server have a hard depend on udev for.
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1976[17:15:13] <jelly> because everyone knows your UPS MUST be connected via serial device and how will /dev/ttyUSB0 appear ?!?!?!
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1978[17:15:25] <ZOP> jelly: the actual offending bit in the postinst was an update-rc.d call -- so IDK if the mask would fix that or not? a policy against the postinst would have other consequences too I think.
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1981[17:15:49] <ZOP> jelly: exactly! damn kids. fuckin USB. :)
1982[17:16:23] <ZOP> (aaaas I type on my USB3.0 das keyboard, while also copying drone footage from a 64GB microSD card)
1983[17:16:55] <TakWah> hi, 'service x reload|restart|start|stop', do I reload then restart or do I restart then reload, or can i reload without restarting. I am utterly confused about this, and what is being reloaded the service or the config of the service?
1984[17:17:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1599
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1986[17:17:22] <greycat> TakWah: "reload" means "send a HUP signal or equivalent to the running daemon to make it re-read its configs"
1987[17:17:28] <greycat> TakWah: obviously not every service supports this
1988[17:17:37] <ZOP> TakWah: so depends a little on the service -- you *are* signalling the service to do it's reload action. *usually* this means reread configs to the service.
1989[17:18:08] <jelly> ZOP: update-rc.d for udev-finish would probably work if update-rc.d for udev had worked and system thought udev service was enabled
1990[17:18:12] <jelly> !tias
1991[17:18:12] *** Quits: coderphive (~coderphiv@replaced-ip) (Quit: coderphive)
1992[17:18:13] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
1993[17:18:20] <TakWah> thank you greycat, ZOP that's exactly what I feard, a service dependent behaviour ;)
1994[17:18:53] <jelly> TakWah: restart will do everything a reload does, and then some more
1995[17:19:06] *** Joins: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip)
1996[17:19:17] <ZOP> Not all daemons support dynamic reconfig...*most* do...of those that don't a "reload" may be equivalent to restart.
1997[17:19:21] *** Quits: monoxane (~monoxane@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1998[17:19:27] <ZOP> And again, package dependent.
1999[17:19:51] <ZOP> It sucks but it's mostly safe to reload when you need to reconfigure....if it doesn't support that it'll often not do anything.
2000[17:19:54] <TakWah> thanks jelly, knowing that saves me 2 lines of pre and post reloads ;)
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2005[17:21:52] <ZOP> I could go on all day with udev offenders that have a strong udev dep instead of a recommend.
2006[17:22:16] *** Joins: Al_lA (~derwhalfi@replaced-ip)
2007[17:22:34] <ZOP> There's going to be stuff that yes should have a strong depend...like probably bluetooth related stuff...but ffs chrony has a udev dep.
2008[17:22:49] <ZOP> And dropbear?
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2012[17:23:02] <ZOP> I gotta stop. Coz this is a deep hole.
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2020[17:26:36] *** Joins: frew (frew@replaced-ip)
2021[17:27:14] <jelly> ,depends chrony
2022[17:27:15] <judd> Package chrony in stretch/amd64 -- depends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), libc6 (>= 2.17), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libedit2 (>= 2.11-20080614), libseccomp2 (>= 2.2.3-3~), libtomcrypt0, ucf, iproute2, lsb-base, adduser, util-linux (>= 2.20.1-5).
2023[17:27:21] * jelly does not see it
2024[17:27:39] <jelly> ,depends chrony --release jessie
2025[17:27:40] <judd> Package chrony in jessie/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.17), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libedit2 (>= 2.11-20080614), libtomcrypt0, ucf, timelimit, install-info, net-tools, lsb-base.
2026[17:27:50] <jelly> ZOP: maybe you just need to upgrade
2027[17:28:24] *** Joins: Noldorin (~noldorin@replaced-ip)
2028[17:28:36] <jelly> oh, there's no udev dep in jessie either
2029[17:28:51] <greycat> ,depends chrony --release wheezy
2030[17:28:52] <judd> Package chrony in wheezy/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.7), ucf, timelimit, dpkg (>= 1.15.4) | install-info.
2031[17:28:58] <greycat> none of the above!
2032[17:29:12] <greycat> unless it's an indirect depends...
2033[17:29:26] <jelly> but then it's not chrony that needs fixin
2034[17:29:54] *** Quits: Informant (~Informant@replaced-ip) (Quit: Informant)
2035[17:30:06] *** Joins: Informant (~Informant@replaced-ip)
2036[17:30:21] *** Quits: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2037[17:30:27] * greycat waits for the part where it's not actually Debian
2038[17:30:33] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
2039[17:32:13] *** Joins: himuraken (~quassel@replaced-ip)
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2042[17:32:41] *** Quits: bug (~bug@replaced-ip) (Quit: .)
2043[17:32:41] <ychaouche> hello #debian
2044[17:33:31] <ychaouche> I still don't understand why I have different behaviour when script is called via at and via cron. Via at it works as expected, via cron parts of the script don't work as expected. Why ? at and cron should run it under the same conditions.
2045[17:33:46] <greycat> What part doesn't work, and what is the error?
2046[17:34:14] <greycat> And no, they do NOT use the same conditions. at(1) attempts to mimic the interactive shell environment through stupid hacks.
2047[17:34:25] <greycat> cron(1) runs from a more bare-bones environment.
2048[17:34:33] *** Joins: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip)
2049[17:34:37] <DammitJim> man, I can't find the parameter on rsync to not pay attention to time discrepancies especially when dealing with a drive that is ntfs
2050[17:34:39] <jelly> at saves almost all env. vars
2051[17:34:56] *** Quits: hans_ (~hans@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2052[17:34:59] <greycat> And then we got to laugh at it when it blew up after the shellshock patches.
2053[17:35:05] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
2054[17:35:19] <DammitJim> any suggestions? I thought it was -I
2055[17:35:26] *** Joins: hans_ (~hans@replaced-ip)
2056[17:35:29] * ychaouche prepares a gist
2057[17:36:18] *** Joins: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip)
2058[17:36:30] <greycat> sorry, that's cron(8) but crontab(1) and crontab(5)
2059[17:36:42] <jelly> DammitJim: --modify-window of 2 seconds or so?
2060[17:36:48] *** Quits: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2061[17:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1608
2062[17:37:02] <DammitJim> I should just format all these drives to ext4
2063[17:37:03] <jelly> no, that was for vfat. ntfs is better
2064[17:37:04] <DammitJim> *sigh*
2065[17:37:56] *** Quits: frju365[IRC] (~frju365@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2067[17:38:05] *** Quits: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2068[17:38:09] *** Quits: jhutchin1_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2069[17:38:21] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2070[17:38:53] <DammitJim> thanks jelly... I wonder if I have another contradicting parameter
2071[17:38:56] *** Quits: Informant (~Informant@replaced-ip) (Quit: Informant)
2072[17:39:10] <jelly> I've never tried -I and can't comment on that one
2073[17:39:26] *** Joins: Informant (~Informant@replaced-ip)
2074[17:39:45] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2075[17:39:55] <jelly> are other attributes the same? Maybe you're not ignoring something else
2076[17:40:26] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
2077[17:40:32] <DammitJim> right
2078[17:40:39] <DammitJim> I have to wait to test this...
2079[17:40:54] *** Quits: freddy_fcch_ (~freddy_fc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2080[17:41:28] * jelly offers DammitJim a --dry-run
2081[17:41:45] *** Joins: kupad (kupad@replaced-ip)
2082[17:42:09] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2083[17:42:21] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2084[17:42:28] *** Quits: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2085[17:43:01] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip)
2086[17:43:53] *** Joins: avalchev (~avalchev@replaced-ip)
2087[17:44:20] *** Quits: Madda (~Madda@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
2088[17:44:43] <DammitJim> that was it, jelly... modify-window
2089[17:45:13] *** Joins: krytarik (~krytarik@replaced-ip)
2090[17:45:21] <ychaouche> ah, I was missing a environement variable
2091[17:45:37] *** Joins: M4g1c5t0rM_ (~M4g1c5t0r@replaced-ip)
2092[17:45:49] <hans_> ello there
2093[17:45:51] *** Quits: zophyx (~zophyx@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2094[17:46:01] <hans_> stupid irc client
2095[17:46:09] *** Quits: fred1 (~fred@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2096[17:46:18] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2097[17:46:18] *** Joins: quiliro (~quiliro@replaced-ip)
2098[17:46:19] <noodlepie> Hiya hans_
2099[17:46:22] <quiliro> hello
2100[17:46:32] <quiliro> great distro
2101[17:46:33] <greycat> try uninstalling the Cockney module
2102[17:46:40] *** Joins: clemens3_ (~clemens@replaced-ip)
2103[17:46:44] *** Joins: fred1 (~fred@replaced-ip)
2104[17:46:45] <hans_> hi. my irc client made me think a several hours old message was the newest one, for a second.
2105[17:47:01] *** Joins: wonderworld (~ww@replaced-ip)
2106[17:47:13] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2107[17:47:44] <jelly> ychaouche: one stupid trick admins don't want you to know! To avoid confusion in crontab, write enviroment variable definitons with spaces FOO = bar, so you immediately remember this is not shell
2108[17:47:44] <ychaouche> I thought HexChat was decent
2109[17:47:51] <quiliro> i am trying to use an arduino and it would not be able to write to the serial port...but i can see ttyACM0...it is a member of the dialout group and the user is a member of that group
2110[17:48:05] <quiliro> i am using debian testing
2111[17:48:16] *** Joins: Raptors (Raptors@replaced-ip)
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2113[17:48:29] * greycat has never ever written an env var definition in a crontab
2114[17:48:59] <hans_> jelly, warning, ntfs-3g has some serious performance issues for bigger files, don't use it in a high intensity workload setting involving big files
2115[17:49:23] <jelly> ychaouche: also, order matters! If only one cron job needs special vars, put it at the end, or have a line setting up FOO = bar, then the job line, then a line resetting FOO = (nothing)
2116[17:49:30] *** Joins: Stanley678 (~user@replaced-ip)
2117[17:49:44] <jelly> hans_: good thing I don't use it at all!
2118[17:49:46] *** Joins: dasj (~daniel@replaced-ip)
2119[17:49:55] <ychaouche> jelly: ack
2120[17:50:01] <greycat> or put "export FOO=bar; /my/job" as the crontab command
2121[17:50:03] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
2122[17:50:30] <jelly> that make cron invoke an extra shell
2123[17:50:31] <Stanley678> how do i launch network manager from command line?
2124[17:50:31] <tw> The only common cron variable I mess with is SHELL.
2125[17:50:32] <greycat> or other variants in which the variable is on the same line as the command that needs it
2126[17:50:35] *** Quits: Rhaal (~Rhaal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2127[17:50:41] <jelly> WASTEFUL
2128[17:50:52] <tw> jelly: use a shell that doesn't need 3MB of ram =p
2129[17:51:04] * karlpinc often writes shell scripts in /usr/local/bin and calls them from cron instead of doing all the settings in cron
2130[17:51:11] <jelly> tw: my /bin/sh -> mksh
2131[17:51:27] <ychaouche> greycat: like VAR=val command ?
2132[17:51:33] *** Joins: Meerkat (~meerkat@replaced-ip)
2133[17:51:36] <jelly> no idea how much it uses
2134[17:51:41] <ychaouche> I think I saw that read
2135[17:51:44] <greycat> ychaouche: yes, that's one variant
2136[17:51:58] <ychaouche> IFS=sep read <...>
2137[17:52:05] *** Quits: h20 (~IceChat9@replaced-ip) (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
2138[17:52:07] <ychaouche> with read*
2139[17:52:09] <greycat> yes
2140[17:52:09] <jelly> tw: still ugly when you see a longer-running job process tree
2141[17:52:22] <jelly> much sh -c
2142[17:52:28] *** Joins: p3rs3us (~jduro@replaced-ip)
2143[17:52:31] *** Joins: h20 (~IceChat9@replaced-ip)
2144[17:52:40] <karlpinc> quiliro: How do you know you have a problem? What are you doing to test?
2145[17:53:10] *** Joins: lpouzenc (~lpouzenc@replaced-ip)
2146[17:53:13] <jelly> quiliro: if you just added the user to dialout group, you need to log out and log back in
2147[17:53:27] *** Joins: Klumben (Nsaiswatch@replaced-ip)
2148[17:53:29] <quiliro> jelly, i have
2149[17:53:34] <jelly> good
2150[17:53:47] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2151[17:53:50] <quiliro> karlpinc, arduino reports problem
2152[17:54:02] <domovoy> is there a way to avoid 'dpk-source -b package-version' updating package_version.dsc if the source haven't changed? every time i run it, the .dsc is updated, even if i haven't changed anything in the directory
2153[17:54:02] *** hans_ is now known as hanshenrik
2154[17:54:04] <avalchev> Hi,
2155[17:54:05] <jelly> quiliro: can you talk to the device directly with minicom or screen?
2156[17:54:09] <avalchev> I forked boost and make some updates for version 1.67.0 and add asio and beast libraries. The result is here: replaced-url
2157[17:54:23] <quiliro> java.lang.NullPointerException thrown while loading gnu.io.RXTXCommDriver
2158[17:54:41] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2159[17:54:47] <greycat> what makes you think this NullPointerException is related to device permissions?
2160[17:54:58] <quiliro> i can echo "Message" > /dev/ttyACM0
2161[17:54:58] *** Quits: deznuts (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2162[17:55:02] <quiliro> with no error
2163[17:55:10] <greycat> then it does not sound like a permission problem
2164[17:55:13] *** Quits: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2165[17:55:55] <quiliro> but on another terminal: tail -f /dev/ttyACM0
2166[17:56:04] <quiliro> will not show anything
2167[17:56:10] *** Joins: zophyx (~zophyx@replaced-ip)
2168[17:56:13] <greycat> I don't know how tail -f works on serial ports.
2169[17:56:33] *** Parts: TakWah (~asfdsa@replaced-ip) ()
2170[17:56:52] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
2171[17:57:02] <jelly> quiliro: can you talk to the device using a serial terminal tool like minicom or screen?
2172[17:57:06] *** Quits: ledeni (~ledeni@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2173[17:58:05] *** Joins: SolarAquarion (SolarAquar@replaced-ip)
2174[17:58:10] <quiliro> jelly, to test will have to disconnect my wireless dongle because i only have 1 usb port...will be back
2175[17:58:13] *** Joins: bendroide (~ben@replaced-ip)
2176[17:58:34] <jelly> ouch
2177[17:58:57] <karlpinc> I have definitely done "cat /dev/Stty0". (At least 15 years ago.)
2178[17:59:02] * jelly wonders which cheap board only has a single usb port
2179[17:59:08] *** Quits: fujisan (uid4207@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2180[17:59:09] *** Joins: dkmdh (~dkmdh@replaced-ip)
2181[17:59:12] <greycat> ttyS0 I assume
2182[17:59:25] <karlpinc> greycat: Yah. (tired)
2183[17:59:34] <jelly> he tried that but cat pulled the S away
2184[17:59:41] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip)
2185[18:00:12] *** Quits: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2187[18:00:25] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2189[18:00:56] *** Joins: nuuuciano_ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip)
2190[18:00:57] *** Joins: hipp (~hipp@replaced-ip)
2191[18:01:10] *** Parts: r3m1 (~rvieux@replaced-ip) ()
2192[18:01:29] <tharkun> I am shopping around for a new vps. Any recomendations?
2193[18:02:21] *** Quits: quiliro (~quiliro@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2196[18:04:07] *** Quits: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2197[18:04:15] <jelly> tharkun: ask in #debian-offtopic please. budget/size/performance/network limits?
2198[18:04:24] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2199[18:04:50] <soulz> moonboot
2200[18:06:04] <Stanley678> how do i launch network manager from terminal?
2201[18:06:18] <jelly> nmcli ?
2202[18:06:36] *** Joins: EvanCarroll (~ecarroll@replaced-ip)
2203[18:06:43] <EvanCarroll> replaced-url
2204[18:06:57] *** Quits: bluenemo (~bluenemo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2205[18:07:15] <Stanley678> jelly: replaced-url
2206[18:07:36] <jelly> Stanley678: looks like it worked?
2207[18:07:46] <jelly> I don't know how to use it.
2208[18:07:50] *** Joins: nik_ (~nik@replaced-ip)
2209[18:08:06] <Stanley678> jelly: it didnt launch no NM. it hows that wicd is working. but i want NM instead
2210[18:08:22] *** Joins: Moane (~anonymous@replaced-ip)
2211[18:08:26] *** Quits: dmorris_ (~dmorris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2212[18:08:34] <quiliro> Stanley678, stop wicd first
2213[18:08:46] <hanshenrik> holy s, > Ryzen CPU caution: The AMD Ryzen 5 and 7 CPUs sold up until at least November 2017 have serious bugs which make any software run very unreliably. One experiences spurious segfaults and system hangs from building as well as running GMP (or any other CPU intensive stuff). As of 2017-11-25 AMD still refuses to recall faulty CPUs. Instead, they replace CPUs on a case-by-case basis after asking each customer to run in exhausting
2214[18:08:46] <hanshenrik> circles for a few weeks. They have invented a newspeak term for these bugs, Performance Marginality Problem.
2215[18:08:49] *** Joins: dmorris_ (~dmorris@replaced-ip)
2216[18:08:52] <quiliro> sudo systemctl ....
2217[18:09:14] <hanshenrik> and AMD is not being sued? the tech community are not outraged?
2218[18:09:17] <Stanley678> guideline: and how do i launch a NM gui ?
2219[18:09:18] <jelly> hanshenrik: ##hardware is over there -> and #debian-offtopic, too
2220[18:09:25] *** Quits: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2221[18:09:33] <jelly> hanshenrik: keep comments in here to debian tech support issues.
2222[18:09:56] <quiliro> jelly, i cannot use minicom
2223[18:10:16] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2224[18:10:17] *** Quits: TomyWork (~tomy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2225[18:10:26] *** Joins: Jaami__ (~jaami@replaced-ip)
2226[18:10:53] <jelly> quiliro: how does it fail? I assume you set up serial port settings correctly first
2227[18:11:27] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
2228[18:11:46] <quiliro> jelly, it says /dev/modem does not exist
2229[18:11:48] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2230[18:12:01] <greycat> does it?
2231[18:12:24] <quiliro> ln -s /dev/ttyACM0 /dev/modem
2232[18:12:27] <quiliro> with sudo
2233[18:12:30] <jelly> quiliro: run "minicom -s" first, pick the right /dev/ttyWhatevs
2234[18:12:31] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip)
2235[18:13:59] *** Quits: quiliro (~quiliro@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2238[18:16:08] <jhutchins_wk> Stanley678: What DE?
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2240[18:16:30] <jhutchins_wk> Stanley678: Make sure you disable/remove wicd before you try to get NM working.
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2243[18:17:53] <quiliro> jelly, could connect with minicom...
2244[18:18:13] <jelly> quiliro: good, did you also try with normal user
2245[18:18:21] <jelly> not sudo
2246[18:18:28] <quiliro> no sudo
2247[18:18:48] <quiliro> but how can i communicate with bash
2248[18:18:52] <jelly> then I guess it's not permissions and it's not arduino's fault
2249[18:19:02] <quiliro> jelly, true
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2252[18:20:07] <jelly> quiliro: doing serial in shell is a PITA that requires careful setting of serial/terminal line settings with stty, why would you want to do that
2253[18:20:09] <quiliro> jelly, now how can i communicate with arduino ide or bash?
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2259[18:21:28] <jelly> I have no experience with arduino ide. If you send one over here I can try it.
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2262[18:22:18] <quiliro> jelly, sudo apt install arduino
2263[18:22:42] <jelly> I don't have an arduino.
2264[18:22:56] <jelly> If you send one over here I can try it.
2265[18:23:05] <quiliro> jelly: oh! where are you?
2266[18:23:13] <jelly> croatia
2267[18:23:31] <quiliro> jelly: it is easy to make one! i will send you the link
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2270[18:24:09] * jelly hopes it's free
2271[18:24:31] <bites> you bought an atmega chip and built it yourself or do you use an official arduino?
2272[18:24:35] <jelly> with free shipping, and magically makes free time in jelly's day
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2290[18:32:35] <quarterback> Hi, I have debian installed, now I had set it up to boot in verbose mode. One thing I had seen is that it first boots in verbose mode in text mode and then switches to verbose boot in graphical mode. How to make debian boot entirely in verbose graphical mode? Is it possible like other distros?
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2295[18:34:22] <RoyK> quarterback: iirc removing 'quiet' in the kernel line in the grub config should do it
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2297[18:35:21] <quarterback> RoyK, Yes, I did that.Now, it boots in text mode for a few seconds. The screen is cleared, then it boots in graphical mode displaying verbose messages. I want to make it boot entirely in graphical mode displaying verbose messages. Is it possible?
2298[18:36:16] <quarterback> RoyK, It boots displaying some messages in text mode, then screen is cleared, it boots in graphical mode displaying the rest of boot messages. This seems a bit weird.
2299[18:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1617
2300[18:38:33] <quarterback> There is some interruption during boot at which the screen is cleared after which it resumes but in graphical mode. It would have been nice to boot entirely in graphical mode.
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2303[18:38:50] <quarterback> I had seen this in knoppix, a variant of debian.
2304[18:39:49] <RoyK> quarterback: can you pastebin the contents of the grub config? and - did you run update-grub after modifying the file?
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2307[18:40:39] <quarterback> RoyK, Yes I did update-grub after that.
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2310[18:41:47] <karlpinc> Is there an easy way to alter an image (trivally, but differently) from the command line? I'm sick of going into gnome and typing some text on top of an image to make a new image file with a different md5 hash.
2311[18:42:11] <quiliro> i have an arduino...but it is possible to make a clone for 1 or 2 dollars
2312[18:42:27] <quiliro> i think it is called a sachakit
2313[18:42:33] <quiliro> i cannot find it now
2314[18:42:38] <quiliro> i am searching
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2316[18:42:47] <quiliro> but that is OT
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2318[18:42:53] <RoyK> quiliro: not really debian-related - try #arduino ;)
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2320[18:42:57] <quiliro> in this chatroom
2321[18:43:25] <quiliro> RoyK, i agree
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2323[18:43:44] <quarterback> RoyK, replaced-url
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2330[18:45:03] <jelly> quarterback: in general no, even knoppix switches graphical mode, but it probably does that so early you don't notice
2331[18:45:43] <quarterback> jelly, Ah I see. is there a way to make debian boot entirely in graphical mode from the beginning?
2332[18:45:57] <RoyK> quarterback: should suffice
2333[18:46:01] <quiliro> RoyK, it is not an arduino thing...it works with debian 9 32 bit
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2335[18:46:18] <RoyK> quiliro: and now you're running what?
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2339[18:46:28] <jelly> quarterback: sure but it's not worth the hassle
2340[18:46:39] <quiliro> but it does not with debian 9 64 bit
2341[18:46:47] <quarterback> jelly, When I have plenty of time, I like to explore in this area.
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2346[18:47:28] <RoyK> quiliro: try something like 'screen /dev/ttyS(whatever) 9600' (or whatever baud rait you're using - I haven't used minicom for years)
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2348[18:47:58] <jelly> quarterback: one thing that can be done is to configure initramfs image to load relevant framebuffer kernel driver, instead of letting the boot process do that. This will break if you switch GPU card to a different vendor
2349[18:48:18] *** Joins: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip)
2350[18:48:31] <quarterback> jelly, I dont plan to change the gpu card. This is already an older board.
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2353[18:48:45] <quarterback> jelly, The graphics are onboard.
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2355[18:49:05] <karlpinc> quarterback: You can also (probably) send the textual output somewhere where you don't see it, like the serial port. But then if something breaks badly you'll have no clue how to fix it because you won't see anything.
2356[18:49:08] <jelly> quarterback: another thing that can be done is to use UEFI framebuffer, but I don't know whether that breaks X afterwards
2357[18:49:29] <jelly> quarterback: why do you want to do this?
2358[18:50:01] *** nezZario_ is now known as nezZario
2359[18:50:03] <quarterback> jelly, Just to have a nicer appearance during boot.
2360[18:50:10] * karlpinc suggests waiting to turn on the monitor until _after_ the box has booted. :)
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2365[18:50:36] <quarterback> karlpinc, That could work for now :)
2366[18:50:43] <jelly> karlpinc: that can actually make a fb driver do stupid things like assume 1024x768 instead of using monitor's native res
2367[18:51:08] <RoyK> anyone using python in here? ;) replaced-url
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2369[18:51:43] <jelly> !slap RoyK
2370[18:51:44] * dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across RoyK's face
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2373[18:52:18] <winfreak> RoyK: Seen that picture and it's sad how accurate that picture is
2374[18:52:19] <quarterback> jelly, brb, I have to check how it boots now. Changed GFX mode in grub.
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2378[18:52:30] <winfreak> and pipenv is even missing in this
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2380[18:52:51] *** Quits: igi_ (~Ignacy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2381[18:53:12] <jelly> (also missing: pyenv)
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2385[18:54:02] <winfreak> which brings up another xkcd: replaced-url
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2388[18:54:45] <RoyK> winfreak: yes...
2389[18:54:58] *** Joins: m8 (~m8@replaced-ip)
2390[18:55:17] <jelly> unless you're Randall Munroe and have written your Debian support question as a comic, your permission to post xkcd links in here is revoked
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2393[18:56:38] <RoyK> jelly: I know, but I don't only post offtopic things in here - I usually help out a lot, so I thought a wee bit off oftopicness can't hurt too much ;)
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2399[18:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1623
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2403[18:57:33] <annadane> jelly's just a spoilsport
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2405[18:57:36] <jelly> !offtopic
2406[18:57:37] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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2408[18:58:29] <jelly> so yeah, I also do random !qotd0 in here sometimes but only if there's not been any questions for a while (say, 15 minutes or an hour)
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2411[18:59:24] * annadane nevertheless thanks RoyK for a new xkcd i haven
2412[18:59:27] <annadane> 't seen yet
2413[18:59:43] <jelly> quarterback: changing graphic mode in grub works only for grub, at least grub-mbr is like that
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2416[19:00:12] <quarterback> jelly, Yes, the font size changed during display of grub boot list.
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2419[19:00:23] <jelly> yay.
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2421[19:00:42] <quarterback> The grub screen looks better now.
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2425[19:01:43] <jelly> quarterback: you can figure out which fb driver linux (kernel) uses from dmesg output. dmesg | grep fb
2426[19:01:50] <jelly> [ 7.945980] i915 0000:00:02.0: fb0: inteldrmfb frame buffer device
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2428[19:01:58] <kwame> kwamejr: o/
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2430[19:02:44] <jelly> quarterback: and then add that one to initramfs
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2432[19:03:59] <jelly> quarterback: /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
2433[19:04:06] <quarterback> jelly, I can post the output of dmesg | grep fb
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2435[19:04:23] <jelly> sure, use a pastebin like paste.debian.net
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2437[19:04:34] <jelly> in my case it's "i915"
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2439[19:05:46] <quarterback> jelly, replaced-url
2440[19:05:47] <jelly> there's a "Console: switching to colour frame buffer device ..." line nearby
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2443[19:06:33] <quarterback> jelly, how much memory does my GPU have?
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2446[19:07:28] <quarterback> jelly, replaced-url
2447[19:07:51] <jelly> quarterback: intel embedded gpu steals main memory
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2451[19:08:44] <snugger> What's a fast, feature-rich but minimal shell?
2452[19:08:53] <quarterback> jelly, Yes, I have 4gb which is ddr2, 0 swap right now. About 2.9 GB is available.
2453[19:09:02] <quarterback> snugger, xterm?
2454[19:09:03] <Tenkawa> snugger: dash
2455[19:09:17] <snugger> quarterback: ...
2456[19:09:17] <Tenkawa> console or x?
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2458[19:09:32] <greycat> xterm is a terminal emulator, not a shell
2459[19:09:49] *** Parts: k3rn3lpanic (~k3rn3lpan@replaced-ip) ()
2460[19:09:53] <quarterback> greycat, Then i use terminal, which seems like the default shell program on debian.
2461[19:10:03] <Tenkawa> dash usually works well
2462[19:10:08] <Tenkawa> for me
2463[19:10:09] <greycat> also, "feature-rich" and "minimal" are polar opposites
2464[19:10:36] <greycat> But seriously, you *MUST* learn the difference between the terminal emulator and the shell.
2465[19:10:52] <snugger> greycat: There comes a point when something has too many features
2466[19:10:57] <snugger> And sometimes something has too less
2467[19:11:04] <karlpinc> snugger: emacs ;-)
2468[19:11:07] <snugger> It's hard coming across something that gets the right balance
2469[19:11:09] <quarterback> greycat, I am familiar with bash shell. Have to know the details though.
2470[19:11:17] <snugger> karlpinc: That's already my window manager
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2472[19:11:31] <snugger> karlpinc: I'm in constant pain. I don't know Lisp
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2474[19:11:35] <greycat> snugger: well, multiple options exist because everyone has a different opinion. So you'll have to try a bunch of them and pick what YOU like.
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2476[19:12:23] <quarterback> snugger, Seems like you will have lot options for your problem.
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2480[19:12:40] <annadane> snugger, fish has good autocompletion
2481[19:12:47] <EvanCarroll> Having a problem recovering with an autoremove after a segfault, debian shows no work to be done on subsequent autoremoves but all the packages are still there, replaced-url
2482[19:12:49] <annadane> and i think people like zsh/oh-my-zsh
2483[19:12:55] <greycat> For actual shells, most people in #debian use either bash or zsh.
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2485[19:13:12] <annadane> oh-my-zsh isn't in debian, you probably have to compile it from github or something
2486[19:13:19] <greycat> For terminal emulators, it's all over the map. xterm, rxvt-unicode, gnome-terminal, whatever i3 uses by default, etc.
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2500[19:17:07] <karlpinc> annadane: If I want it to "just run" I write in Posix shell (dash). Every now and then some special feature is needed in which case I use bash. zsh is just an excuse to do something different. If you need something "better", don't write your script in shell.
2501[19:17:43] <karlpinc> And get off my lawn! ;)
2502[19:17:54] <annadane> yeah, a shell expert i am not
2503[19:17:59] <greycat> That's great advice for script-writing. But interactive use is a different matter.
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2506[19:19:57] <karlpinc> greycat: True enough. But I don't need to clutter my brain with yet another set of shell variations just to be able to type commands.
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2508[19:20:27] <annadane> i know for fish there's something you can do to use bash commands in fish
2509[19:20:41] <annadane> there's a particular thing that works in bash but not in fish which i can now no longer remeember
2510[19:20:42] <annadane> remember
2511[19:20:46] <greycat> !start a shell war
2512[19:20:46] <dpkg> bash sucks!
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2515[19:20:58] <annadane> aliases maybe?
2516[19:21:00] <diver47> Hi, are the ATI/AMD Crimson (ex-Catalyst) proprietary driver binaries packaged in the firmware-amd-graphics nonfree package?
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2520[19:21:24] <greycat> annadane: even POSIX sh has functions and aliases
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2523[19:24:03] <jelly> annadane: oh-my-zsh leans very close to curl | sudo zsh, do you trust random people with git commit privileges not to mess up your shell
2524[19:24:19] <annadane> not at all and that is indeed my issue with some github projects
2525[19:24:20] <jelly> it's not necessary
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2530[19:25:23] <annadane> it's certainly one of those things like bitcoin which is very hyped up
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2532[19:26:30] <quarterback> in russia it is, not elsewhere.
2533[19:26:33] <greycat> diver47: the firmware-* packages only contain firmware, not drivers. They're very different things. Firmware is downloaded *into* the device itself by the OS during boot.
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2539[19:28:17] <greycat> As for installing Catalyst/fglrx/amdgpu ... sorry, I don't know how to do that. But someone else probably does.
2540[19:28:32] <diver47> greycat: oh, thank you for the remark :) I need to install Crimson manually then, but it seems that it only supports ubnutu and redhat ...
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2542[19:28:49] * annadane snorts derisively
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2544[19:29:05] <greycat> Installing video drivers from outside of Debian is often a bad idea, so I'd wait for someone who knows this topic.
2545[19:29:06] <jelly> karlpinc: zsh was a great tool back when bash had no programmable completion and crappy syntax sugar, so like 20 years back
2546[19:29:23] <annadane> but yeah i'd say unless you have a reason not to use bash... use bash
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2548[19:29:49] <annadane> or at least know the differences between arbitrarily choosing different shells
2549[19:30:26] <jelly> right now there's no real significant value in switching from bash to zsh or vice versa if you're already used to one
2550[19:30:37] <greycat> Typically you shouldn't look at zsh until you've completely mastered bash and have found that you actually want something that zsh adds that bash doesn't have yet.
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2552[19:30:57] <jelly> I like its find-replacement syntax
2553[19:31:00] <diver47> greycat: ok :) I'll wait then
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2556[19:31:09] <jelly> and that's pretty much the one thing that comes to mind
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2558[19:31:24] <greycat> Do you mean **/* ? Bash has that now.
2559[19:31:24] <annadane> i enjoyed fish from what limited use i had of it
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2561[19:31:43] <annadane> but it's just... meh
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2563[19:31:52] <annadane> one more thing to learn
2564[19:32:01] <jelly> greycat: not just recursion, want regular files with mtime less than a week *(.m-7)
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2566[19:32:07] <greycat> ah
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2568[19:32:11] <greycat> no, bash doesn't have that
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2574[19:35:23] <jelly> and I can't think of any other thing that I'd actually use. Lots of fancy useless stuff, like bash' /dev/tcp/
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2578[19:36:57] <jelly> a couple more sane defaults, but all of those can be fixed in bash, and there are some defaults that bash does better, too
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2588[19:42:55] <quiliro> jelly, sent you pm with arduino making links
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2592[19:46:25] <jelly> thanks! Not that I'll make time to make one
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2604[19:52:19] <diver47> how can I explicitly check if I am using the nonfree driver for AMD graphics already?
2605[19:52:47] <diver47> typing "glxinfo |grep OpenGL" in the terminal gives "OpenGL renderer string: AMD OLAND (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.15.0-3-amd64, LLVM 5.0.1)'
2606[19:52:50] <greycat> Whichever driver you see the *most* of in the Xorg log file....
2607[19:53:04] <petn-randall> heh
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2642[20:05:34] <segwent> hi .. sorry if this is OT but i don't know where else to go .. so, here is the problem:
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2645[20:06:15] <segwent> i have debian-8 running iceweasel over an ssh connection and it works as well as if I were sitting at the machine
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2649[20:07:02] <segwent> i now have debian-9 and exactly the same setup (where possible) and yet running firefox-esr over anssh connection renders firefox completely unusable
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2652[20:07:17] <segwent> the same is true for all other distros which I have tried
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2654[20:07:50] <segwent> *only* debian-8 is capable of running a window app in X at a suitable rate to be able to use
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2657[20:08:37] <greycat> It's not just "a window app". It's a freakin' modern web browser.
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2659[20:09:13] <segwent> greycat: suure, i understand this is extremely complex .. but debian-8 works and nothing else does
2660[20:09:56] <jomat> 16:51:43│ jelly> !slap RoyK
2661[20:09:56] <jomat> 16:51:44│ * dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across RoyK's face
2662[20:10:01] <greycat> First thing that comes to mind is the version of firefox-esr. Second thing, whether you used compression with your ssh -X. Third thing, whether the browser is using any advanced features of GPU.
2663[20:10:05] <jomat> ups, sorry
2664[20:11:06] <greycat> Fourth thing, whether the *window manager* is doing compositing or any other fancy-schmancy stuff that I don't understand or want to understand.
2665[20:11:44] <petn-randall> segwent: I'm fairly sure modern firefoxes uses hardware acceleration to render the window, that doesn't work with X forwarding.
2666[20:12:07] <petn-randall> segwent: If you want to use firefox (or any other thing for that matter) remotely, better set up a VNC/RDP server.
2667[20:12:14] <greycat> I don't know whether that's true for the browser UI itself, or only for specific pages.
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2672[20:13:25] <mutante> firefox -no-xshm ?
2673[20:13:50] <jelly> ,v firefox-esr
2674[20:13:51] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; jessie: 52.5.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 52.6.0esr-1~deb9u1; wheezy-security: 52.7.3esr-1~deb7u1; jessie-proposed-updates: 52.7.3esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.7.3esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 52.7.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 52.7.3esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 52.7.3esr-1; sid: 52.7.3esr-1
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2677[20:14:36] <jelly> segwent: a silly thing you might try is debian 9 but with firefox-esr from debian 8, ie. version 52.7.3esr-1~deb8u1;
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2679[20:14:58] <jelly> segwent: it's quite possible there's a difference in how the two are built
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2686[20:16:07] <karlpinc> I've not been paying attention. But I am always bumping into having to use --no-remote with firefox to keep it from just making a new window for an already running process. FWIW
2687[20:16:09] <jelly> segwent: which OS do you have on the ssh client / X server side?
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2709[20:21:58] <scwizard> why is php-gettext now called php-php-gettext ?
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2712[20:22:33] <scwizard> replaced-url
2713[20:22:33] <Guest32218> when preseeding an ISO, the instructions at replaced-url
2714[20:22:44] <segwent> hi again.. sorry for the delay, i was afk .. i did not expect so many answers or info ! :)
2715[20:23:09] <Guest32218> i tried replacing echo with cat but that doesn't seem to work
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2717[20:24:12] <annadane> oh btw, this is like days later but i asked a question here... days ago... in which i asked for a good pdf signing tool, and i've just discovered xournal, in case anyone is interested
2718[20:24:23] <annadane> seems to do the job
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2720[20:24:54] <ZitZ> hi there, is there anything wrong with the repos right now? I get 403 when it tries to fetch the en translation?
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2722[20:25:22] <greycat> Wait and try again, or try a different mirror.
2723[20:25:43] <ZitZ> did both
2724[20:25:50] <petn-randall> scwizard: Probably for consistency.
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2726[20:26:10] <petn-randall> scwizard: All packages are php-<upstream name>
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2728[20:27:09] <jhutchins_wk> !mirror status
2729[20:27:09] <dpkg> Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: replaced-url
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2732[20:27:53] <tw> ,v freecad
2733[20:27:54] <judd> Package: freecad on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 0.14.3702+dfsg-3~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.14.3702+dfsg-3; jessie-backports: 0.16+dfsg2-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.16+dfsg2-3; sid: 0.16.6712+dfsg1-1+b2
2734[20:28:28] <ZitZ> unless my work connection is doing something weird, i should check from home first
2735[20:28:42] *** Quits: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2736[20:29:32] *** Quits: EvanCarroll (~ecarroll@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2737[20:29:43] <ZitZ> but i always switch to the default debian mirror to see if it's the mirror first and multiple mirrors exhibit the same issue
2738[20:29:45] <segwent> jelly: firefox version on deb8 is actually ESR 45.9.0 .. i did not realise it was so old
2739[20:30:32] <scwizard> how come it says php-gettext isn't found
2740[20:30:33] <scwizard> replaced-url
2741[20:30:38] <scwizard> php-gettext is a jessie package
2742[20:30:40] <scwizard> and I'm on jessie
2743[20:30:41] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
2744[20:30:43] *** Quits: cornholio (~cornholio@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2745[20:30:44] <greycat> ZitZ: well, it's not happening for me
2746[20:30:48] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2747[20:30:54] <petn-randall> ,v php-gettext
2748[20:30:55] <judd> Package: php-gettext on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.11-1; wheezy: 1.0.11-1; buster: 1.0.12-0.1; sid: 1.0.12-0.1; stretch: 1.0.12-0.1
2749[20:30:56] <segwent> jelly: client (where i sit) is linux mint 17.2
2750[20:31:06] <scwizard> petn-randall: see
2751[20:31:06] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
2752[20:31:07] <ZitZ> i'll wait till i get home, that'll give me another data point.
2753[20:31:43] *** Quits: ubik (~ubik@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2754[20:31:50] *** rainfyre_ is now known as rainfyre
2755[20:31:52] <petn-randall> !bat
2756[20:31:53] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2757[20:32:03] *** Joins: jhutchin1_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
2758[20:32:05] <petn-randall> scwizard: Can you provide all the info above in a single paste? ^^^
2759[20:32:10] *** Joins: loptr (~loptr@replaced-ip)
2760[20:32:35] <jelly> segwent: eh, 45ESR was more responsive even for local use.
2761[20:32:56] *** Joins: blitzed (~blitzed@replaced-ip)
2762[20:32:59] <scwizard> ok 1 is done
2763[20:32:59] <segwent> jelly: sounds like i am on a lossing battle to me :(
2764[20:33:01] <scwizard> let me send 2 and 3
2765[20:33:08] *** Joins: nullbyte_ (~nullbyte_@replaced-ip)
2766[20:33:52] <jelly> segwent: I don't know what I'm going to do when 52ESR is gone, all alternative vertical tabs are horrible in 59ESR
2767[20:34:11] *** Quits: nullbyte_ (~nullbyte_@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2768[20:34:42] <scwizard> petn-randall: here's #2 replaced-url
2769[20:34:45] <jelly> possibly try Opera again. It introduced the feature, and who knows, maybe whoever took the brand remembers that
2770[20:35:09] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2771[20:35:15] *** Parts: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
2772[20:36:13] <scwizard> petn-randall: #3 replaced-url
2773[20:36:17] <scwizard> is there any other info you need?
2774[20:36:35] <segwent> jelly: i think i will try your idea about rolling back to a real early version. I guess my use case is not a popular choice and probably will not get much interest
2775[20:36:48] *** Quits: frju365[IRC] (~frju365@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2776[20:36:50] <dionysus69> hey all
2777[20:36:52] <segwent> thanks for your help :)
2778[20:36:56] <jelly> segwent: just don't use it for sites on public internet
2779[20:36:59] <dionysus69> I am kinda bored of gnome 3
2780[20:37:10] <dionysus69> so I am looking into some recommendations
2781[20:37:15] <segwent> jelly: yeah .. i know ;)
2782[20:37:16] <dionysus69> what do you guys use ? :)
2783[20:37:30] <dionysus69> KDE vs XFCE? or something else?
2784[20:37:35] <greycat> no desktop environment at all; just a window manager
2785[20:37:42] <dionysus69> hmm???
2786[20:37:46] <ZitZ> i use tmux
2787[20:37:54] *** thurin is now known as uprime
2788[20:37:58] <scwizard> hmm
2789[20:38:06] <dionysus69> greycat: what do you mean, do you do everything in terminal?
2790[20:38:06] <scwizard> maybe package pinning has somethin to do with this?
2791[20:38:18] <scwizard> php-gettext is a "pinned package" and I'm not sure what that menas
2792[20:38:20] <greycat> No, I use X with a normal window manager, NOT a desktop environmenty.
2793[20:39:33] *** Joins: mkolenda1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2794[20:39:35] <dionysus69> greycat: can you elaborate on that plz? if you have a free minute? :) do you mean xorg + just a window manager? nautilus?
2795[20:39:40] <ZitZ> i normally just use tmux, but i have kde there if i need it. Makes no sense not to, disk space is so cheap.
2796[20:39:41] <annadane> i am going to refer to them as desktop environmenties from now on
2797[20:39:43] <segwent> greycat: do you use firefox under X like me ?
2798[20:39:44] <dionysus69> and what about other stuff one may need?
2799[20:39:45] *** Quits: ArlequInOut (~DaVinciCo@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2800[20:40:13] <greycat> I use both firefox-esr and google-chrome.
2801[20:40:18] <annadane> dionysus69, i like MATE, which is a fork of gnome 2
2802[20:40:27] <annadane> pretty lightweight and user friendly
2803[20:40:35] *** Joins: Ilyas (uid43013@replaced-ip)
2804[20:40:42] <dionysus69> ZitZ: is tmux like terminator? I use terminator, but if you boot and terminal is the only thing you get, I dont get it, what about browser or file manager and stuff like that
2805[20:40:47] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
2806[20:40:51] *** winfreak|afk is now known as winfreak
2807[20:40:52] <greycat> tmux is like screen
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2811[20:41:00] <dionysus69> greycat: go with latest firefox, esr sucks :D
2812[20:41:24] <ZitZ> file manager = mignightcommander, browser i switch over to kde and use firefox, but console browsers exist, like elinks
2813[20:41:27] <dionysus69> esr is for libraries I imagine or very enterprise envs
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2815[20:41:39] <ZitZ> tmux is like terminator, except it isn't an X app
2816[20:42:05] <dionysus69> never seen a console browser, does it have everything regular browser does or it's just for text?
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2818[20:42:38] <greycat> A window manager lets you resize windows, move them around, change which one is "on top" of the others, possibly introduce multiple workspaces, etc. That's all you really need, and for the first decade or so of X's existence, that's all anyone had.
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2820[20:42:42] <dionysus69> and everything is happening in the terminal? you boot up and all u see is grid of terminals ? :D
2821[20:42:42] <winfreak> dionysus69: Just doing text.
2822[20:42:55] <greycat> A desktop environment adds another few hundred megabytes of crap on top of that.
2823[20:43:08] <ZitZ> tmux has hotkeys, and basically you switch between tabbed terminals
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2826[20:43:30] <greycat> dionysus69: that's i3
2827[20:43:31] <dionysus69> like what kind of crap?
2828[20:43:45] <ZitZ> most console browsers don't do javascript. but i think elinks has a framebuffer mode and you can get mouse support and javascript to some degree
2829[20:43:48] <scwizard> blehhhh
2830[20:43:49] <scwizard> ondrej
2831[20:44:04] <dionysus69> ugh I got confused now
2832[20:44:13] <dionysus69> what's the learning curve of your setup
2833[20:44:16] *** Joins: maxzor (~maxzor@replaced-ip)
2834[20:44:28] <scwizard> ondrej screwed me over before I don't wanna use his ppa
2835[20:44:37] <dionysus69> greycat can you take a screenshot of your screen or you Zitz, so I get an idea what I am dealing with ? :D
2836[20:44:39] <greycat> I don't use i3 (but I do use i3lock as a replacement for xlock which was removed).
2837[20:44:45] <annadane> no, do not use PPAs in debian
2838[20:44:56] *** Joins: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip)
2839[20:45:11] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
2840[20:45:19] *** Joins: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip)
2841[20:45:23] <dionysus69> but I assume I will be going with KDE or xfce in the end
2842[20:45:30] <greycat> I use fvwm, which is a very traditional window manager. Just a border around windows so they can be moved and resized, and multiple workspaces, and not a whole lot more.
2843[20:45:42] <dionysus69> I am a web developer, can't be too close to the source
2844[20:45:45] *** Joins: EvanCarroll (~ecarroll@replaced-ip)
2845[20:45:52] <hypn0> dionysus69: you can search images
2846[20:45:53] <winfreak> dionysus69: I guess that depends on how much you've already done with the terminal only. Probably a good starting point would be to get started using tmux under GNOME where you slowly start doing everything with terminal apps
2847[20:46:06] *** Joins: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip)
2848[20:46:13] <winfreak> then just reduce your env until it's the most minimal you need
2849[20:46:16] <winfreak> (including no gnome)
2850[20:46:17] *** Quits: zophyx (~zophyx@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2851[20:46:20] <dionysus69> hmm
2852[20:46:26] <dionysus69> vim seems too hard
2853[20:46:31] <tw> dionysus69: common components of a DE include root desktop icon manager, notification/bubble, integrated file browser, often-unified environment config, tray, toolbar, launcher.
2854[20:46:34] <dionysus69> sublime 4 ever xD
2855[20:46:35] <scwizard> annadane: basically he "depreciated" a ppa, but the system he had for upgrading it to the new ppa was broken as fuck, and it screwed us over
2856[20:46:45] <scwizard> now I'm really skeptical of third party ppas
2857[20:47:00] <scwizard> like he didn't just stop maintaining a ppa, he broke it on purpose so that you'd have to upgrade to his new one
2858[20:47:10] <winfreak> dionysus69: I really don't get why you'd want all of this all of the sudden - what is the problem you try to solve?
2859[20:47:28] <winfreak> (especially as someone who is probably a GUI heavy user)
2860[20:47:30] <dionysus69> I dont trust ubuntu ppas, I always prefer debian repo or downloading source or a deb package
2861[20:47:48] <dionysus69> winfreak: boredom? gnome 3 seems like takes too much ram
2862[20:48:01] <dionysus69> I am low on ram nowadays, 8gb getting filled up quick
2863[20:48:08] *** Joins: theseb (~user@replaced-ip)
2864[20:48:13] <scwizard> actually I'll make an exception
2865[20:48:18] <scwizard> I trust PPAs from real companies
2866[20:48:24] <winfreak> dionysus69: Then start off with LXDE or Xfce.
2867[20:48:28] <scwizard> like the docker repo for installing docker
2868[20:48:30] <scwizard> docker is a real company
2869[20:48:30] <hypn0> doing what dionysus69
2870[20:48:38] *** Joins: Meteor0ID (~Prometeor@replaced-ip)
2871[20:48:38] <scwizard> Ondřej Surý is not a real company
2872[20:48:39] *** Joins: Meteorite (~Prometeor@replaced-ip)
2873[20:49:02] *** Joins: spectr0 (pasis@replaced-ip)
2874[20:49:10] <ZitZ> replaced-url
2875[20:49:10] <jelly> but he is a debian developer
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2879[20:49:38] <ZitZ> my tmux status also has my external ip shown, but i scrubbed that out
2880[20:50:00] <dionysus69> haha that's so cute, looks too matrix like :D
2881[20:50:21] *** Quits: treehug88 (~textual@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
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2883[20:50:25] <winfreak> matrix like? m(
2884[20:50:26] <ZitZ> yeah, i'm the only one on my team deving on linux, and i'm fine with that.
2885[20:50:30] <theseb> help! shell puzzle....I defined E="-i /home/cs/.ssh/etcplanet.pem cs@etcplanet.org" in .zshrc...however...when I do ssh $E I get the following error... Warning: Identity file '/home/cs/.ssh/etcplanet.pem' cs@etcplanet.org not accessible: No such file or directory. It is behaving like it is *ignoring* the quotes around the PEM file and taking entire $E as the -i arg..why?
2886[20:50:55] <ZitZ> the learning curve isn't too bad after you learn vim, because most apps either mirror vim keybindings, or have a setting to switch it
2887[20:51:07] <ZitZ> then just pull in your dotfiles and your setup can move to any machine you work on
2888[20:51:10] <scwizard> jelly: I know he's a debian developer, and I appreciate the work he's done but
2889[20:51:16] <greycat> theseb: the warning shows '/home/cs/.ssh/etcplanet.pem' so no, it's not doing what you said
2890[20:51:21] <scwizard> in practice I got screwed by the "ppa depreciation" he pulled off
2891[20:51:32] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
2892[20:52:33] <tw> theseb: #1, if you want it to split -i and that file, you have to quote it differently. #2, I don't think openssh is going to accept your PEM identity file.
2893[20:53:15] <dionysus69> winfreak: yea, like a dev screen in matrix movie xD
2894[20:53:39] <winfreak> dionysus69: You could also try out learning emacs and emacs-lisp all the things ;-)
2895[20:53:50] <greycat> tw: if that's true, then he lied about his Warning message.
2896[20:53:55] <dionysus69> oh come on now the emacs guy comes around :D
2897[20:53:57] *** Quits: jhutchin1_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2898[20:54:10] <theseb> tw: 1. how quote it right? 2. the pem file works if I don't use the $E
2899[20:54:14] <winfreak> I'm not an emacs guy, but it's another possible solution for a super minimal terminal only setup
2900[20:54:32] <greycat> If the warning message had said "Warning: Identity file '/home/cs/.ssh/etcplanet.pem cs@etcplanet.org' ...
2901[20:54:46] <dionysus69> nah, not looking for that :D too much to handle, I need to be a systems dev for that :)
2902[20:55:00] <greycat> theseb: If tw's correct then you have a zsh variable expansion question, so ask #zsh.
2903[20:55:10] <dionysus69> I think bash is a very ugly scripting language, worse than javascript
2904[20:55:15] <winfreak> not at all, actually. but yeah.
2905[20:55:16] <dionysus69> ruby dev here xD
2906[20:55:26] <greycat> theseb: or better still, set up the IdentifyFile for a Host in your ~/.ssh/config so you don't have to do this at the shell level
2907[20:55:27] <winfreak> Emacs LISP is, as the name implies, not bash.
2908[20:55:32] <petn-randall> scwizard: Yes, your pinning is broken.
2909[20:56:20] <tw> theseb: I'd probably end up with something like E=( -i /identity/file user@host ) ; ssh "${E[@]}"
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2912[20:56:40] <theseb> greycat: thanks
2913[20:56:43] <tw> or better, use the ~/.ssh/config file for it's purpose.
2914[20:56:48] <theseb> tw: wow...so much firepower needed for this
2915[20:56:55] <theseb> tw: i'll look into config
2916[20:56:57] <dionysus69> what is Emacs LISP? I know emacs is a text editor, or some other people call it, an OS
2917[20:56:59] <dionysus69> :D
2918[20:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1629
2919[20:57:13] <scwizard> petn-randall: in the name of expedience I've been using some random person's docker image
2920[20:57:25] <scwizard> since I don't have ci/cd set up for docker images yet
2921[20:57:35] <winfreak> dionysus69: emacs is primarily the emulator for a Lisp Machine that happens to run an editor
2922[20:57:44] <winfreak> written in lisp
2923[20:57:45] <scwizard> and now I'm running into the debt that I took out
2924[20:57:53] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip)
2925[20:58:03] <winfreak> but I guess that goes too far for #debian so we could either hop off to #debian-offtopic
2926[20:58:14] <winfreak> or just ...stop it :D
2927[20:58:34] *** Quits: rhaal_ (~Rhaal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2928[20:59:02] <annadane> i believe emacs uses elisp, not lisp itself
2929[20:59:02] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2930[20:59:26] <winfreak> elisp is just another lisp dialect. but yes.
2931[20:59:31] <winfreak> (elisp = emacs lisp)
2932[20:59:44] <dionysus69> ok winfreak that's enough info for today :) we can stop it, and thanks for the insight all of you
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2951[21:09:56] <theseb> tw, greycat: fwiw...this zsh freakshow nails it.. E=( "-i" "/home/cs/.ssh/etcplanet.pem" "cs@etcplanet.org" )
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2958[21:11:11] <greycat> theseb: I also independently confirmed that in a default zsh interactive shell, word splitting isn't done on variables with spaces in them.
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2961[21:11:40] <greycat> so I'm guessing you retyped your error message (incorrectly) instead of pasting it
2962[21:11:55] <tw> ^- also my guess, or your E was set to a different value than you provided.
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2966[21:13:01] <theseb> greycat: nope pasted everythhing
2967[21:13:12] <theseb> replaced-url
2968[21:13:32] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip)
2969[21:13:39] <theseb> but anyhoo..thanks again for all the help...it was most enlightening...don't know if i have new respect for the shell or i should be terrified of it now
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2972[21:14:07] <greycat> theseb: oh, **YOU** put the literal single quotes inside $E during an X-Y journey
2973[21:14:15] *** Joins: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip)
2974[21:15:03] <greycat> I assumed they were part of the error message, but no, they were part of your input data
2975[21:15:15] <tw> yeah, and it interprets the space after -i as part of the id file name
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2977[21:15:43] <greycat> I also learned how to make my zsh prompt NOT be colored, so now I can actually type "zsh" without wanting to hit Ctrl-D as quickly as possible.
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2985[21:18:45] <tw> theseb: So to be specific, that's creating an array of arguments, individually quoted or escaped, and passing them separately to the called program as different arguments.
2986[21:19:22] <tw> As I recall, straight `program $E` is a zsh-ism.
2987[21:19:57] <greycat> zsh probably has some way to force word-splitting of a single string variable (sh compat) -- ask #zsh how to do it
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2995[21:24:34] <theseb> tw, greycat: here is one more fwiw-ism.......echo $E didn't help with debugging but set -x revealing the smoking gun
2996[21:24:38] <theseb> ever heard of set -x?
2997[21:24:45] <theseb> it is more revealing that echo
2998[21:24:47] <tw> yeah, it works everywhere.
2999[21:24:49] <theseb> tell a friend
3000[21:24:51] <theseb> that is all i have
3001[21:25:09] <greycat> I have an "args" command that I use for testing this kind of thing.
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3003[21:25:40] <greycat> replaced-url
3004[21:26:03] <greycat> But sure, -x is good too.
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3007[21:27:49] <scwizard> bleh
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3009[21:28:02] <scwizard> my boss is like "just use ondrej's ppa"
3010[21:28:07] <scwizard> and like I get the logic but I still don't like it
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3013[21:29:57] <scwizard> I'd really prefer just going with php 7.0 but he says "I can't guarantee we're not using 7.1 features"
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3049[21:50:45] <hypn0> I thought ppas were for ubuntu, not debian
3050[21:51:05] <greycat> unfortunately we get a lot of ubuntu or former-ubuntu users here...
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3080[22:09:23] <scwizard> hypn0 greycat: ubuntu ppas are compatableish with debian so
3081[22:09:33] <annadane> no, they're not
3082[22:09:49] <scwizard> how so exactly?
3083[22:09:52] <greycat> !ppa
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3085[22:09:53] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
3086[22:09:54] <scwizard> i thought they were
3087[22:10:17] <scwizard> greycat: yeah b
3088[22:10:30] <scwizard> although people tell me that ondrej isn't an idiot and his packages are decent quality
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3090[22:10:57] <greycat> whether any particular third-party repo is "safe" with any particular version of Debian is up to you to decide
3091[22:10:59] <annadane> i have no idea who ondrej is or why you keep going on about them
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3093[22:11:13] <RoyK> scwizard: better use docker to isolate those
3094[22:11:14] *** Joins: h20 (~IceChat9@replaced-ip)
3095[22:11:15] <blotek> #join #ubuntu
3096[22:11:23] <annadane> try /join #ubuntu, blotek
3097[22:11:33] *** Joins: nhh^ (~hph@replaced-ip)
3098[22:12:30] <blotek> annadane, sorry ;)
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3100[22:13:24] <scwizard> greycat: would you say that it's safer to use said third party repo with ubuntu than with debian?
3101[22:13:27] *** Quits: ehlodex (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3102[22:13:34] <greycat> Ask #ubuntu
3103[22:13:34] <scwizard> third party repo in question: replaced-url
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3105[22:14:01] <annadane> !don't break debian
3106[22:14:02] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, dont break debian is replaced-url
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3113[22:15:46] <scwizard> as I said, using this guy's PPA isn't my preference, I had bad experience with it before
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3115[22:16:15] <scwizard> but sometimes people want things done fast instead of right
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3117[22:16:51] <AndreasLutro> ondrej has plain debian repositories, why do you want to use the ppa?
3118[22:16:58] <scwizard> wiat what
3119[22:17:02] <scwizard> what waht's the difference i'm confuse
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3123[22:17:41] <scwizard> ahh i see
3124[22:17:44] <AndreasLutro> PPAs are (always?) made for ubuntu and often break on debian
3125[22:17:45] <scwizard> on his site he links to a "dba" and a "ppa"
3126[22:17:47] <greycat> Read the URL. See where it says "ubuntu/ppa"?
3127[22:17:56] <greycat> err sorry, that's ubuntu/php
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3129[22:18:17] <scwizard> AndreasLutro: thanks that was really useful
3130[22:18:29] <blotek> there's new php in debian mainline so I don't get what's the problem there;)_
3131[22:18:34] <AndreasLutro> replaced-url
3132[22:18:47] <AndreasLutro> still, use at your own risk of course
3133[22:18:48] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3134[22:18:51] <scwizard> blotek: my boss told me "we can't guarantee we aren't using 7.1 features"
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3136[22:19:04] <scwizard> i think that's fucking silly, but *shrug*
3137[22:19:32] <AndreasLutro> isn't silly to keep up with programming language versions. though docker is the preferred method these days
3138[22:19:45] <blotek> scwizard, sounds silly :D
3139[22:19:58] <greycat> PHP is silly.
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3142[22:20:18] <scwizard> AndreasLutro: i think it's perfectly fine to upgrade php versions at the speed of debian
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3144[22:20:24] <blotek> scwizard, replaced-url
3145[22:20:31] <blotek> scwizard, which ones xD ?
3146[22:20:33] <scwizard> blotek: i know i know
3147[22:20:40] <scwizard> i didn't wanna press the issue
3148[22:20:54] <blotek> scwizard, don't worry my boss is dumb too
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3150[22:20:56] <AndreasLutro> scwizard: people said that when 5.3 was the latest avaiable in stable as well
3151[22:21:08] <AndreasLutro> man there's some serious anti-developer fud in this channel
3152[22:21:17] <scwizard> AndreasLutro: as for docker, actually this is about building docker images so
3153[22:21:49] <scwizard> actually wait
3154[22:21:54] <scwizard> maybe i can just use the offical php image
3155[22:21:58] <AndreasLutro> oh? should use one of the php docker images then, or alpine
3156[22:21:59] <scwizard> and just work off of that i dunno
3157[22:22:15] <scwizard> the php docker images do support installin additonal extensions
3158[22:22:17] <blotek> scwizard, well you won't have to deal with php versioning anymore ;p
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3162[22:22:52] <RoyK> setup a separate webserver in docker - should fix the problem and isolate the machine
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3165[22:23:42] <scwizard> wait
3166[22:23:55] <scwizard> does the php docker image just use ondrej's dba?
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3168[22:24:27] <AndreasLutro> probably!
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3171[22:24:38] <scwizard> it uses a debian base that's for sure
3172[22:24:54] <AndreasLutro> oh nah it compiles it from scratch
3173[22:24:57] <AndreasLutro> replaced-url
3174[22:26:06] <RoyK> dba as in dbms?
3175[22:26:13] <scwizard> AndreasLutro: whew
3176[22:26:18] <scwizard> yeah i think i'm gonna go with that
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3182[22:28:01] <AndreasLutro> debian bcustom archive, obviously
3183[22:28:25] <greycat> Good old bsilent B.
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3215[22:49:40] <Divergenz> i'll mount a iso file but i'm getting the message that the file is to large. howto fix it?
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3226[22:52:40] <sine0> guys I want to add my user to the replaced-url
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3228[22:52:51] <sine0> is this all thats required to add the user to the group
3229[22:53:11] <greycat> add the user to the group, then log out and back in
3230[22:53:16] <sine0> cool
3231[22:53:22] <greycat> make sure the files are group-writable
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3236[22:56:13] <sine0> greycat: how can i display what teh current 775 etc is
3237[22:56:20] *** Joins: Ruebezahl (~Alf@replaced-ip)
3238[22:56:28] <greycat> ls -l
3239[22:56:34] *** Quits: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip) (Quit: Hold on, brb.😎)
3240[22:56:52] <sine0> hum yea i got that its not group writable but im trying to remember the code
3241[22:56:58] <sine0> 7 is rwx yea
3242[22:57:02] <greycat> 664 = rw-rw-r--
3243[22:57:10] <sine0> ah
3244[22:57:12] <greycat> that's what you want for files
3245[22:57:16] <sine0> kk
3246[22:57:32] *** Joins: phinxy (~ted@replaced-ip)
3247[22:57:37] <sine0> chmod -R 664
3248[22:57:52] *** Joins: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip)
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3250[22:58:21] <greycat> no, do NOT do that!
3251[22:58:33] *** Joins: rlange (~rlange@replaced-ip)
3252[22:58:34] <greycat> You *DO NOT* want to put 664 on a directory. Only on files!
3253[22:59:14] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3254[22:59:20] <sine0> what should dir be
3255[22:59:30] *** Joins: Namarrgon (~Namarrgon@replaced-ip)
3256[22:59:43] <greycat> Depends on whether you want them group-writable or not. Either 755 (not group writable) or 775 (group writable).
3257[23:00:03] *** Quits: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip) (Quit: Cuechan)
3258[23:00:04] <mutante> a dir needs to be "executable" or you can't list the contents of it
3259[23:00:09] *** Joins: slv (~slv@replaced-ip)
3260[23:01:02] <greycat> readable to list contents, executable to *use* the contents
3261[23:01:32] <sine0> so I made a mistake
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3263[23:01:47] <sine0> and now its time to erase that mistake
3264[23:01:50] <sine0> like bob norton
3265[23:02:03] <sine0> I did: sudo chmod -R 664 .
3266[23:02:07] <sine0> whilst inside a dir
3267[23:02:42] <sine0> and that removed the dir from x right
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3272[23:04:25] <sine0> and all the dirs are inaccessible
3273[23:04:32] <sine0> i kind of did it before you said dont
3274[23:04:40] <sine0> its just a fresh vm though
3275[23:04:45] *** Quits: fabioluciano (~fabioluci@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3276[23:05:12] <sine0> how can i recursivly set them back
3277[23:05:26] <sine0> o plz o plz
3278[23:06:07] <sine0> cool find ()
3279[23:06:53] <sine0> I wish i was awesome enough to understand that command that just saved my bacon
3280[23:07:13] *** Joins: ehlodex (~quassel@replaced-ip)
3281[23:07:21] *** Quits: morenoh149 (~hmoreno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3282[23:07:22] <sine0> sudo find -type d -exec chmod 755 {} +
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3285[23:07:40] *** Quits: tobiasBora (~tobiasBor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3286[23:07:45] <greycat> replaced-url
3287[23:07:48] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection timed out)
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3290[23:08:26] *** Quits: Quindas2 (~Quindas@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3291[23:08:46] <sine0> that is so awesome
3292[23:08:53] *** Quits: srg___ (~srg@replaced-ip) (Quit: srg___)
3293[23:09:22] <sine0> hey greycat one last thing
3294[23:09:29] *** Joins: sm0rux (~sm0rux@replaced-ip)
3295[23:09:36] <sine0> its all working but the color listed is blue, makes me think its nto quite right
3296[23:09:38] <sine0> drwxr-xr-x 6 replaced-url
3297[23:11:08] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
3298[23:11:40] <sine0> no its all good
3299[23:12:17] *** Quits: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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3302[23:15:39] <sine0> so I need to do that command but for files only and make them group writable
3303[23:15:59] <sine0> sudo find -type f -exec chmod 775 {} +
3304[23:16:24] <greycat> 664 for files unless they are programs
3305[23:17:07] *** Quits: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3306[23:18:01] *** Joins: fooman2011 (~IceChat9@replaced-ip)
3307[23:18:20] *** Joins: blitzed (~blitzed@replaced-ip)
3308[23:19:05] <fooman2011> Hello. I'm on Wheezy. I would like to run a script at the end of the boot. My script executes an infinite loop. Could you please tell me how to do that ?
3309[23:19:05] *** Joins: lord_daemon (~lord_daem@replaced-ip)
3310[23:19:20] *** Joins: pacorro2000 (~freyes@replaced-ip)
3311[23:19:26] <sine0> greycat: I am in the replaced-url
3312[23:19:32] <sine0> but I still cant write the files
3313[23:19:33] <sine0> -rw-rw-r-- 1 replaced-url
3314[23:19:43] <greycat> put "/my/script >/var/log/my.log 2>&1 &" in /etc/rc.local, ABOVE the exit 0 line
3315[23:20:03] <greycat> (or however you choose to handle logging)
3316[23:20:17] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3317[23:20:18] <greycat> sine0: "id username" is NOT the check you want. "id" with no arguments is.
3318[23:20:21] <fooman2011> greycat ? me ? thanks
3319[23:20:29] <greycat> "id username" shows what you WOULD have the next time you log in
3320[23:20:48] *** Joins: donald (~donald@replaced-ip)
3321[23:20:52] <sine0> greycat: same results, i just realised that its scp that I am using, so would that be classed as system to write ?
3322[23:21:04] <donald> I want to use all these headers in my project: replaced-url
3323[23:21:41] *** Quits: nast (~nast@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3324[23:21:57] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3325[23:22:31] <segwent> :(){ :|: & };:
3326[23:22:41] <greycat> replaced-url
3327[23:23:46] <segwent> ;)
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3350[23:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1599
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3356[23:43:18] <awal1> how to list security bugs affecting x pkg?
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3359[23:46:35] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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3364[23:48:22] <karlpinc> awal1: Find the package at bugs.debian.org.
3365[23:48:24] <awal1> apt-listbugs -T
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3367[23:48:41] *** Joins: ellie (~eleanor@replaced-ip)
3368[23:48:56] <ellie> good evening
3369[23:49:11] <ellie> does anyone know how to upgrade to firefox latest version and to update my flashplayer plugin?
3370[23:49:15] <ellie> debian 9
3371[23:49:15] <awal1> krlpinc, I think "apt-listbugs -s all -T list pkgname" is enoughthanks anyway
3372[23:49:16] *** Quits: lldd_ (~atrapado@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3373[23:49:23] <ellie> via apt-get I mean
3374[23:49:54] <awal1> i just got confused bcoz it looks like -T without -s doesn't work
3375[23:49:56] <ellie> root@misty:/home/eleanor# apt install flashplugin-nonfree
3376[23:49:56] <ellie> Reading package lists... Done
3377[23:49:56] <ellie> Building dependency tree
3378[23:49:56] <ellie> Reading state information... Done
3379[23:49:57] <ellie> Package flashplugin-nonfree is not available, but is referred to by another package.
3380[23:49:57] *** ellie was kicked by debhelper (flood)
3381[23:50:04] *** Joins: ellie (~eleanor@replaced-ip)
3382[23:50:09] <ellie> sorry for that
3383[23:50:12] *** Joins: leafwiz (~leafwiz@replaced-ip)
3384[23:50:18] <awal1> i wonder why -T needs -s
3385[23:50:46] <awal1> karlpinc
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3391[23:55:36] <awal1> ellie, adobe flash is not available for stretch
3392[23:55:55] <awal1> ,v flashplugin-nonfree
3393[23:55:56] <judd> Package: flashplugin-nonfree on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 1:3.2+wheezy1; jessie/contrib: 1:3.6.1+deb8u1; sid/contrib: 1:3.7
3394[23:56:42] <awal1> anyway, even if it was, it doesn't do it's purpose (download and install flash from adobe)
3395[23:57:14] <awal1> ^ for other branches
3396[23:57:21] *** Quits: jasperarcola_ (~jasperarc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3397[23:57:53] <awal1> conclusion= avoid flash and use html5; if really needed, install it manually
3398[23:58:17] <awal1> ,v pepperflashplugin-nonfree
3399[23:58:18] <judd> Package: pepperflashplugin-nonfree on amd64 -- wheezy-backports/contrib: 1.4~bpo60+1; jessie/contrib: 1.8.1+deb8u1; buster/contrib: 1.8.3+nmu1; sid/contrib: 1.8.3+nmu1
3400[23:58:27] <awal1> same
3401[23:59:28] *** Joins: icarious (~icarious@replaced-ip)
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