People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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2 [00:00:26] <ziGuy> just put nosuid,noexec,nodev on /tmp
3 [00:01:07] <jelly> that directory will still be exec'able in its original path
4 [00:01:37] <ziGuy> y? the original path will be "hidden" under the new one
5 [00:01:44] <jelly> no, it won't
6 [00:02:01] <jelly> bind mounts are visible in both places
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8 [00:02:42] <jelly> eg. suppose you have something like
9 [00:02:46] <jelly> /mnt/tmp /tmp none rw,bind,nosuid,noexec 0 0
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11 [00:02:55] <jelly> and you have a directory /mnt/tmp
12 [00:03:27] <jelly> if it's on your / filesystem someone will still be able to execute stuff under /mnt/tmp/
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16 [00:04:20] <ziGuy> yes but in this example u have 2 mount point
17 [00:04:34] <ziGuy> 2 different mount points
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19 [00:04:57] <ziGuy> anyway i got the idea.
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21 [00:05:11] <ziGuy> Thank you for your time my friend, and have a great day
22 [00:05:19] <jelly> ziGuy, only /tmp is a mount point
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24 [00:05:37] <jelly> /mnt/tmp is source, just a directory
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28 [00:06:23] <jelly> it exists under the / mount point, and that one is usually mounted with exec and suid
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30 [00:07:05] <ziGuy> i understand. so i might be needed another disk/partition anyway. thank you
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73 [00:37:46] <lispmacs`> is there a way to reduce debian logging to something like openwrt logread; i.e., logs data just gets writting to circular buffer in memory?
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97 [01:00:22] <lispmacs`> i could switch maybe to busybox-syslogd?
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119 [01:11:10] <Psi-Jack> I'm trying to get cloud-init working on Debian 8. It's working well on Debian 9, but not 8. For network configuration mostly, it's not setting up a network. I'm running Proxmox VE 5.1.x and it's the cloud-init iso9660 method for cloud-init to work (still fairly new)
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169 [01:45:14] <hyperlumic> !proxmox
170 [01:45:15] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
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194 [01:58:22] * Psi-Jack isn't asking for Proxmox help, but cloud-init help more specifically.
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196 [01:59:42] <retiform> how do I enable tap to touch?
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198 [02:00:06] <retiform> Should it be under /etc/X11/xorg.conf/
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234 [02:26:40] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
235 [02:26:47] <Psi-Jack> I just don't get why cloud-init works on Debian 9, but not Debian 8
236 [02:27:14] <Psi-Jack> It gets the sr0 mount with the cloud-init user-data, meta-data, etc, gets the network configuration. But it does not apply any of it.
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244 [02:40:33] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Its not reading network-data. Just user-data and meta-data.
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279 [03:06:15] <erikm> I just installed stretch on my machine -- I find when I add myself to a new group, and then log out to lightdm and log back in, it still doesn't show me belonging to the new group. I can su to my user, and then it shows the group. I've had to reboot my machine to get it to take. Any ideas why this is happening?
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331 [04:04:49] <_minos> man tmux
332 [04:04:56] <_minos> whoops.
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355 [04:27:13] <awal1> how can i make 'dmenu' list only gui apps?
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357 [04:27:50] <awal1> nothing i 'man'; anyone have worked that in the source?
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382 [04:48:56] <Thete> is there a easy way to install mainline kernels on debian stretch?
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385 [04:50:56] <hyperlumic> Thete: backports may be of help.
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419 [05:14:18] <NonaSuomy_> I have a corrupted vm file system that I would like to try to repair. I seem to be able to mount the sda1 after booting the cd in rescue mode but it doesn't seem to let me reinstall grub and a lot of the tools are not availible like fsck
420 [05:14:30] <NonaSuomy_> not sure what to try next
421 [05:15:36] <NonaSuomy_> I tried to set the hd0,msdos1 as boot but when I set insmod normal it just said its an unknown filesystem
422 [05:16:29] <NonaSuomy_> replaced-url
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425 [05:16:53] <NonaSuomy_> grub-install '(hd0)' doesn't work in installer mode
426 [05:18:51] <NonaSuomy_> as when I tell rescue mode to use the /dev/sda1 and boot it just goes back to the menu options but lets you select the installer mode and mounts sda1 fine in that
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484 [06:16:40] <clandest> with wireless internet, do i just have to add my wpa-ssid and wpa-psk to the /etc/network/interfaces file? I am trying to bring it up with ifup wlan_2gext, but it doesn't seem to be working. I remember there are profiles that have to be copied and made, but i can't seem tofind the command to make those profiles
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486 [06:17:38] <nmschulte> clandest: WPA2?
487 [06:17:56] <clandest> nmschulte: yes
488 [06:17:59] <nmschulte> I believe you'll want/need wpa_supplicant
489 [06:18:22] <nmschulte> and at that point, you may want NetworkManager (nmcli or nm gui bits)
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492 [06:18:51] <nmschulte> you can jam it by hand though; wpa_passphrase is the tool to create the file w/ the secrets
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495 [06:19:41] <nmschulte> I should caveat that I'm running Sid, but I believe this information stretches back to jessie and possibly further
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498 [06:20:17] <clandest> I have those setup, I am trying to connect to my wifi exntension, and would like to swtich between the two connections.
499 [06:20:27] <clandest> I thought i could just add another profile in my /etc/network/interfaces file
500 [06:20:47] <nmschulte> oh I see. I think that's over my head. :(
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502 [06:21:19] <nmschulte> wlan_2gext is a device name?
503 [06:21:29] <nmschulte> I dont' use ifup; I thought it was deprecated?
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507 [06:22:42] <clandest> wlp3s0 is device name, and wlan_2gext is what i want as the profile name to swtich to with ifup wlan_2gext
508 [06:23:30] <hyperlumic> clandest: I don't think that's how the interfaces file works.
509 [06:23:58] <clandest> I have a profile with wlp3s0 and ifup wlp3s0 works but adding other connections doesn't seem to work.
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511 [06:24:13] <hyperlumic> That's because /etc/network/interfaces operates on devices, not "profiles."
512 [06:24:31] <nmschulte> s/profile/configuration/
513 [06:24:40] <clandest> hyperlumic: thanks for the reply, i remmebr when i was first setting up my system there were different profiles needed. and i had to run a command to copy the current network profile
514 [06:24:50] <hyperlumic> clandest: Stop using the word profile.
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516 [06:25:14] <nmschulte> man page makes it sound like ifup configurations may achieve what he's after, but I am unfamiliar -- replaced-url
517 [06:25:38] <nmschulte> I use the iw tool to choose which SSID/config to setup for the WiFi device.
518 [06:25:49] <bug> isn't it ifup <interface> ?
519 [06:26:21] <nmschulte> if{up,down,status} config [ interface ] [ -o options ]
520 [06:26:34] <hyperlumic> clandest: /etc/network/interfaces configures -devices-. Nothing more. If you want the ability to manage multiple sets of configuration for a single device, I'd suggest NetworkManager. It's quite robust.
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568 [07:19:24] <SanchoPensa> good morning, ladies and gentlemen!
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571 [07:20:15] <SanchoPensa> so, i was looking for my eth0 and eth1, and what i found instead where enp2s0
572 [07:20:15] <SanchoPensa> and enp5s4. What the hell is that, and where did it come from?
573 [07:22:33] <awal1> systemd namig
574 [07:22:35] <themill> They're called "Predictable Network Interface Names" ... you need a particular view of what "predictable" is to believe that though
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576 [07:23:34] <themill> They are predictable in that they don't change (eth0 and eth1 could swap each time you boot; not a good look).
577 [07:23:55] <themill> (Repeatable might have been a better word than predictable, but it's not going to change now)
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583 [07:28:10] <awal1> SanchoPensa, if you want to understand that replaced-url
584 [07:28:31] <SanchoPensa> thanks, awal1
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586 [07:28:50] <awal1> ways about how to reverse that are explained there; nothing comlicated
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590 [07:29:08] <themill> If you've got 2 ifaces, you don't want to revert it, however.
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598 [07:35:30] <TomTheDragon> themill, I've noticed on debian stretch I get enp1s0, but on alpine edge I get eth0 like before. I take it the change is not in the kernel?
599 [07:36:01] <themill> the kernel continues to make up random names and leaves it to userspace to figure out what to do with those names
600 [07:36:51] <themill> udev has attempted to deal with this for years with its renaming rules
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605 [07:38:35] <clandest> is pastbin ok, or is there something else that is prefere'd if I want to show a config file?
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607 [07:40:35] <awal1> people may prefer paste.debian.net
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609 [07:40:55] <themill> (the basic preference is "anything except pastebin.com")
610 [07:41:13] <awal1> o rare you talking about 'pastbinit'?
611 [07:41:28] <TomTheDragon> themill, it actually seems like a pretty good idea to assign it to bus and slot number now that I think of it
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613 [07:42:55] <themill> TomTheDragon: if you've got a box with lots of cards or where cards change, that works. If you've got a single iface in your box then instead of knowing it would just be eth0, you now have to ask. (Then again, I've seen plenty of single iface boxes where it's eth1 or eth2 because of hw upgrades over time…)
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615 [07:44:48] <TomTheDragon> themill, not sure there's a truly good solution, unfortunately.
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617 [07:46:13] <themill> indeed
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619 [07:46:35] <themill> when bash-completion knows how to complete the iface names for you, the pain of enp1s0 is diminished greatly
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629 [07:56:49] <clandest> I have my /etc/network/interface file replaced-url
630 [07:56:52] <clandest> network-manager is not helpful in my case.
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682 [08:50:30] <rajivmars> hi all. i wanted to install debian 9 on my laptop as primary distribution alongside fedora. when i install debian alongside fedora 27 previously i made these partitions; /, /home, swap and /boot/efi. what i have noticed after install is debian has taken even fedora's swap and using it. and when i login to fedora what i saw was swap was not available for fedora.
683 [08:51:36] <rajivmars> anyone tell me how i install debian alongside fedora without affecting fedora's swap?
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687 [08:57:19] <rajivmars> anuone?
688 [08:57:23] <rajivmars> anyone?
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692 [08:59:35] <mrig> rajivmars, hi, you could use manual disk configuration to achieve this, whilst installing debian; It sound as if you are letting it configure the disks automatically.
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694 [09:00:05] <rajivmars> mrig, i did it manually.
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696 [09:00:23] <rajivmars> may be i missed some trick in the manual partitioning.
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698 [09:01:32] <rajivmars> but i don't no what i missed. is there any option inside the manual partition by selecting which i stop this?
699 [09:02:10] <rajivmars> because i made seperate swap for debian while installing.
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704 [09:06:54] <rajivmars> mrig?
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709 [09:12:34] <mrig> rajivmars, hi well I only have one debian on my system but I do use manual disk instillation whilst installing, during this process I am given the option to define the use of each disk, including the swap partition.
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711 [09:13:03] <mrig> Just wondering if you are using this or using the automatic configureation.
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713 [09:14:21] <rajivmars> mrig, mrig i thought there is the option inside 'use as' which says 'do not use this partition'. is that was what i missed?
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715 [09:15:03] <rajivmars> because i wasn't select that option then.
716 [09:16:04] <alkisg> rajivmars: yes if you select "don't use this partition", you won't get an fstab entry for that later on
717 [09:16:20] <alkisg> But it's just a text file, you can edit it later without issues, adding and removing partitions and swaps
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719 [09:17:11] <rajivmars> alkisg, so by selecting that option debian is not formatting and using fedora's swap?
720 [09:18:06] <alkisg> If you select that option it won't format and it won't use fedora's swap
721 [09:19:26] <rajivmars> ok. thanks!
722 [09:19:34] <alkisg> np
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724 [09:20:09] <alkisg> rajivmars: so, the debian installer formatted fedora's swap
725 [09:20:21] <alkisg> To make fedora use it now, you just have to edit the fedora's /etc/fstab
726 [09:20:26] <alkisg> You don't need to change anything else
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729 [09:21:10] <rajivmars> yes
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740 [09:30:00] <Brek> Using Arch, I can install and update proprietary software using AUR Helper via a command only. Currently using debian, I install proprietary software from their website and update them manually. Is there an easy way to do so in debian just like arch?
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751 [09:37:20] <turbo64> hi
752 [09:37:26] <turbo64> how is ryzen support in stretch right now?
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754 [09:37:38] <turbo64> will a ryzen 1200 work ok with the default kernel?
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842 [10:47:24] <Guest22740> hello, what are the pros and cons of Debian vis-a-vis OpenSuse Leap and Ubuntu LTS?
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845 [10:48:46] <Guest22740> and what stability and security can we expect from some distros like LMDE and MX Linux that are based on Debian, but are easy for newbies?
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863 [11:05:28] <alkisg> Guest22740: those questions would be good for a blog post, not so much for IRC. It's difficult for people here to decide to write 100 lines for what you're asking.
864 [11:05:44] <alkisg> Google about those questions, then maybe ask more specific questions here
865 [11:05:52] <Guest22740> ok
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868 [11:07:48] <jrj_> hello
869 [11:08:14] <alkisg> Hello
870 [11:08:59] <jrj_> can someone help me find out why "apt upgrade" suggest upgrade kernel, but "apt-get upgrade" not?
871 [11:09:40] <jrj_> debian 9.3
872 [11:10:44] <alkisg> If you read the man pages, there are slight differences between them
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874 [11:11:02] <alkisg> apt upgrade now properly pulls new dependencies as necessary
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876 [11:11:50] <Guest22740> how can one make Debian more beginner friendly?
877 [11:12:02] <Guest22740> for those who have been using Windows?
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880 [11:12:13] <jrj_> but apt-get says it will keep current version. not just "nothing to upgrade"
881 [11:12:34] <alkisg> jrj_: if you want to use apt-get, use apt-get dist-upgrade
882 [11:12:42] <alkisg> Guest22740: start by installing, then ask questions whenever you have difficulties
883 [11:12:58] <alkisg> There isn't really much "beginners magic", it's the same linux in all distros
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885 [11:13:21] <Guest22740> ok
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887 [11:14:02] <jrj_> alkisg: i want to get difference in behaviour
888 [11:14:19] <alkisg> jrj_: did you read the man page? It specifically mentions the difference in behavior
889 [11:14:25] <alkisg> Is there some point there that you didn't get?
890 [11:14:42] <Guest22740> btw, what sort of problems could one encounter while using Debian testing? is it the rolling release version of Debian?
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892 [11:15:45] <alkisg> Guest22740: there are distributions that have rolling releases for users; debian testing isn't really for daily use but for testing certain things
893 [11:16:04] <Guest22740> ok
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898 [11:18:17] <Scytale89> Guest22740: The official Debian FAQs may suggest that testing is better for "normal" endusers. If you know a bit what you are doing testing can work just fine as a daily driver. As long as you make backups and actually read what the apt/apt-get output tells you about possible problems
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900 [11:19:02] <jrj_> alkisg: maibe i missed something. i only found that apt - end user interface, and apt-get - back-end tool. why should they do one task differently?
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902 [11:19:10] <Scytale89> There are some best pracitces advices: replaced-url
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907 [11:20:00] <Guest22740> I would rather stick to Debian stable.
908 [11:20:01] <Scytale89> jri_: look at the man-pages. They differ in pulling in/removing dependencies
909 [11:20:07] <alkisg> jrj_: `man apt-get` => and read the paragraphs about upgrade and dist-upgrade
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911 [11:20:33] <alkisg> jrj_: then, `man apt` => and read the paragraphs about upgrade and full-upgrade
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913 [11:20:42] <jrj_> oh, sorry. i look only description in the beginning...
914 [11:20:51] <alkisg> apt is the newer version of apt-get
915 [11:20:57] <alkisg> They're the same tool, just newer version
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922 [11:25:04] <Scytale89> dist-upgrade /full-upgrade could be dangerous in testing/unstable. Read the output of upgrade and then decide to dist-upgrade/full-upgrade
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927 [11:29:27] <Scytale89> other than: other rolling release disros are not more stable than debian testing imo. But if you are unsure, stick to stable as there is no other distro this stable
928 [11:29:35] <jrj_> so, i read mans. and reason is linux-image-amd64 - is metapackage which affects real kernel package. and thats why apt-get will not change it with upgrade command, right?
929 [11:29:59] <jrj_> and apt upgrade will
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933 [11:33:45] <jrj_> alkisg: thanks for pointing me. my bad not to read about "upgrade" command description.
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943 [11:40:26] <alkisg> jrj_: apt-get update doesn't install new packages, yeah, that's why
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951 [11:44:58] <michael2> alkisg: did you mean `apt-get upgrade' doesn't install new packages?
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953 [11:45:58] <alkisg> yeah, sorry
954 [11:46:11] <alkisg> multitasking too much :)
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994 [12:14:15] <debtesterr> What's up with that my PC wont boot into Linux when I run my overclock profile on the CPU? When I load optimized defaults instead it works okay. The error message dissappears too quickly, but it said something about "Hardware error".
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997 [12:16:44] <RoyK> debtesterr: then I can only guess you've overclocked it so much it generate a hardware error ;)
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1000 [12:17:27] <debtesterr> RoyK: Yeah it's at a pretty aggressive clock speed, 5ghz, but why wouldn't it boot though?
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1002 [12:18:47] <debtesterr> Works fine booting windows
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1004 [12:19:05] <RoyK> debtesterr: if the system is so overclocked it generates hardware errors, no, it shouldn't - dunno what windows does about it though
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1006 [12:20:01] <RoyK> debtesterr: if you want to dig more into it, setup netconsole so that everything printed before it gives up, is sent to another machine in addition to the terminal/monitor
1007 [12:20:09] <RoyK> !netconsole
1008 [12:20:10] <dpkg> netconsole is a Linux kernel driver which logs kernel <printk> messages over UDP. It is commonly used to capture system crash information. replaced-url
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1011 [12:21:01] <debtesterr> I probably want to resolve this, its annyoing changing clock profile all the time
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1015 [12:22:21] <RoyK> debtesterr: then start with setting up netconsole - all you need is some other computer
1016 [12:23:32] <debtesterr> Anyways, another question I have is how display drivers works in debian, do I need to download any? Also I have a 2nd screen which isnt being detected
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1020 [12:24:53] <RoyK> it should work out of the box, but again, I mostly use debian on servers - others will probably know more
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1025 [12:26:01] <iTeV> Hi folks, does someone have any clue why I cant enable the `dm_mirror` kernel module/
1026 [12:26:08] <BCMM> debtesterr: open-source drivers are generally available out-of-the-box, unless you have a weirdly minimal install of X
1027 [12:26:10] <iTeV> Im getting a "exec format error'
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1029 [12:26:34] <BCMM> debtesterr: however, (separately from drivers) your graphics card might need firmware from non-free to perform properly
1030 [12:26:49] <BCMM> debtesterr: proprietary graphics drivers are also available from non-free, and must be enabled manually
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1078 [12:52:06] <Meerkat> "Could not connect to debian.lth.se:80 (130.235.34.30). - connect (111: Connection refused)"
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1080 [12:52:20] <Meerkat> How and where can I change the server to a working one?
1081 [12:52:28] <Meerkat> from apt-get btw
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1084 [12:54:44] <iTeV> in /etc/apt/sources.list or a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
1085 [12:54:56] <BCMM> Meerkat: these days, debian has a CDN that will automatically get you a good server
1086 [12:55:32] <BCMM> Meerkat: replaced-url
1087 [12:55:48] <BCMM> Meerkat: but in short, just use deb.debian.org as your mirror in sources.list
1088 [12:56:27] <michael2> Ive got a similar problem. Im trying to install stretch using the netinstaller over a wifi connection (my adapter needs the non-free firmware) I keep getting this error:
1089 [12:56:36] <michael2> [Bad archive mirror]
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1092 [12:57:50] <michael2> Ive chosen a few mirrors and they all cause the same error - Im wondering if its because I have a bad wifi connection?
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1100 [13:00:54] <Meerkat> It's working now. Thank you!
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1102 [13:01:55] <michael2> does anyone know, what "proceed without a mirror" means?
1103 [13:02:31] <michael2> does that mean the install just copies the packages on the netinstaller USB to the harddisk?
1104 [13:02:55] <michael2> or does the installer just use another apt source?
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1120 [13:14:56] <themill> michael2: the former -- only what is already on your install disk is available
1121 [13:15:51] <michael2> can I recover - I mean build up a full system from that minimal install?
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1123 [13:16:58] <michael2> I've been reading that its not possible/very unreliable to try and install from the netinstaller when all you have available is wifi, and no ethernet connection
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1126 [13:17:55] <themill> sure all you need to do is edit /etc/apt/sources.list, apt update, apt install things
1127 [13:18:22] <themill> If you're reliant on wifi for that apt update, then you would need to get your wifi working first
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1129 [13:19:17] <michael2> will all the packages (that the netinstaller would have installed) be marked for apt/dpkg - or will I need to mark them manually?
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1131 [13:21:27] <themill> you can run tasksel yourself
1132 [13:22:08] <michael2> I've never heard of tasksel
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1150 [13:32:04] <furrymcgee> can you define custom tasks with tasksel?
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1169 [13:45:59] <michael2> does anyone know the command in debian for checking if a network interface is up ? the equivalent of `ifconfig'?
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1176 [13:47:56] <furrymcgee> michael2: do you know ip command?
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1178 [13:49:24] <michael2> furrymcgee: no, is that the main command to query and manage a network interface in debian?
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1182 [13:52:15] <Exagone313> michael2: ip addr
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1185 [13:52:44] <michael2> Exagone313: nice, thanks!
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1187 [13:52:57] <lembron> well... vps hangs during boot, after ehci-pci platform driver, ohci_hcd USB open host controller and freezes. no idea what direction to search in even... replaced-url
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1189 [13:53:18] <lembron> i want to blame my hoster for moving my vm to a diffrent host that broke it, but not sure...
1190 [13:54:14] <lembron> tried all sorts of noapci and module blacklisting, but nothing is getting me any further than that line :(
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1198 [13:59:51] <michael2> everytime I try to download a non-free live installer with gnome, which is a 2.5GB download the download fails -usually because a bad byte is received, does anyone know a workaround for this problem?
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1200 [14:00:38] <michael2> the main installer doesn't have a problem with this because there is a torrent option - but I can't find a torrent option for the non-free installers
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1210 [14:07:13] <michael2> ah, the torrent downloads are in the 'bt' directory, doh!
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1231 [14:21:19] <Scytale89> the hardest thing about debian is to find the correct ISO :D
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1241 [14:27:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
1242 [14:27:07] <nullbyte_> !bat
1243 [14:27:07] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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1251 [14:29:54] <nullbyte_> jelly, hi
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1262 [14:34:38] <nullbyte_> who can help
1263 [14:34:57] <nullbyte_> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
1264 [14:35:18] <nullbyte_> cuda : Depends: cuda-9-1 (>= 9.1.85) but it is not going to be installed, E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
1265 [14:35:21] <nullbyte_> how to fix it
1266 [14:35:29] <nullbyte_> everything is fine in my system
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1268 [14:37:39] <dvs> ,v cuda
1269 [14:37:40] <judd> No package named 'cuda' was found in amd64.
1270 [14:37:44] <dvs> Hmmm....
1271 [14:37:51] <dvs> that could be the problem
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1278 [14:40:39] <nullbyte_> no i have installed it manually
1279 [14:40:44] <nullbyte_> wiht dpkg :)
1280 [14:40:52] <nullbyte_> and it adds repos to conf apt files
1281 [14:41:03] <nullbyte_> and after apt-get update i need to use apt-get install cuda
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1284 [14:41:06] <nullbyte_> but fails
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1290 [14:41:51] <nullbyte_> who knows?
1291 [14:41:52] <dvs> !frankendebian
1292 [14:41:52] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
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1300 [14:49:37] <michael2> Ive just installed stretch using the netinstaller - I couldn't get connected to the wifi during the install so I only have the very minimal install (bash prompt at a linux terminal) I've connected to wifi now and run apt-get update. does anyone know the command to get apt to continue installing the packages the netinstaller would have installed if it was connected?
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1306 [14:52:19] <jimm> the package groups are called tasks and I think you can run tasksel
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1309 [14:54:51] <michael2> running `sudo tasksel --list-tasks' or just `tasksel' by itself gives no output
1310 [14:54:52] <jimm> dpkg, oh, thanks a lot :P
1311 [14:54:53] <dpkg> jimm: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
1312 [14:55:58] <jimm> how are you logged in as root?
1313 [14:56:09] <jimm> oh, you use sudo, I see
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1315 [14:56:35] <jimm> try: ssh -X root@localhost
1316 [14:56:53] <jimm> then type your password... then run tasksel
1317 [14:57:02] <jimm> (no args)
1318 [14:58:17] <jimm> wait, that might not be right
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1320 [14:58:25] <jimm> testing...
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1323 [15:00:17] <rant> why would you need to use ssh for any of this? :P
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1325 [15:00:48] <michael2> running `sudo tasksel --task-packages desktop' prints:
1326 [15:00:53] <michael2> task-desktop
1327 [15:01:01] <joepublic> other than smooth clever solution points, which that has for sure...
1328 [15:01:24] <michael2> can I run that task?
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1332 [15:02:03] <rant> michael2: you can just manually specify what you'd like to install on the apt commandline. Do you have a preference of which desktop to install?
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1338 [15:03:28] <michael2> sure, I can specify at command line. i was wanting to install gnome desktop
1339 [15:03:38] <joepublic> michael2 would `sudo tasksel` not give you a list to choose from?
1340 [15:03:53] <michael2> sudo tasksel - does nothing
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1342 [15:04:09] <michael2> neither does tasksel --list-tasks
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1344 [15:04:26] <rant> michael2: something like apt-get install xorg lightdm mate-desktop-environment swapping out lightdm or mate-desktop-environment for any alternatives you wish to use
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1346 [15:04:48] <BCMM> michael2: define "does nothing" - command not found? prompt returns immediately? hangs indefinitely? prompt returns with no output after serveral seconds?
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1348 [15:05:49] <jimm> michael2, you can try... apt install task-desktop
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1352 [15:06:24] <michael2> BCMM: when I run command `sudo tasksel' no output is printed. shell just starts another prompt - tasksel exit code is `0'
1353 [15:06:25] <jimm> if you want the desktop task
1354 [15:06:28] <rant> or task-foo-desktop where foo is the desktop you want
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1356 [15:06:51] <rant> task-gnome-desktop | task-xfce-desktop | task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-cinnamon-desktop | task-mate-desktop | task-lxqt-desktop being options
1357 [15:07:00] *** Quits: chamaeleon (bounce@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1358 [15:07:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
1359 [15:07:13] <rant> you can of course install more than one if you like
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1361 [15:07:46] <joepublic> with more than one, you select the one you want to experience at your display manager's login screen.
1362 [15:08:07] <rant> tasksel not working as expected is curious but its hardly very pertinent to getting the system further installed, there are other ways
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1364 [15:08:48] <rant> the big question nobody is asking is about your sources.list apt-cache policy to verify that you have proper source before doing ANY of this
1365 [15:09:02] <rant> if you aborted the installer at some point you may not have a full sources.list
1366 [15:09:17] <michael2> rant: Ive checked /etc/apt/sources.list
1367 [15:09:21] *** Quits: skizzy (~skizzy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1368 [15:09:37] <joepublic> I was waiting for a report of "unable to locate package so and so"
1369 [15:10:13] <jimm> if that's the case, you could show us your sources.list by doing this: cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
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1371 [15:10:22] <michael2> jimm: `sudo apt-get install task-desktop' prints
1372 [15:10:36] <michael2> E: unable to locate package task-desktop
1373 [15:10:41] <jimm> and then showing us the url
1374 [15:10:45] <michael2> joepublic: ^
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1376 [15:11:06] <rant> michael2: apt install task-gnome-desktop should resolve your issue if you have proper sources, if you want us to help with the sources do as jimm suggested with either your sources.list or apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999
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1378 [15:11:16] <dvs> ,v task-deskop
1379 [15:11:17] <judd> No package named 'task-deskop' was found in amd64.
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1381 [15:11:19] *** Joins: Tom_- (~tomg@replaced-ip )
1382 [15:11:21] <jimm> oh ok... well, which desktop do you want?
1383 [15:11:24] <dvs> ,v task-desktop
1384 [15:11:25] <judd> Package: task-desktop on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.14.1; jessie: 3.31+deb8u1; stretch: 3.39; buster: 3.43; sid: 3.43
1385 [15:11:47] *** Quits: retrop99 (~retrop99@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
1386 [15:12:22] <jimm> kde? gnome? lxde? xfce?
1387 [15:12:29] <jimm> something else?
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1389 [15:12:35] <michael2> rant: the laptop only has a minial install - `nc' is not installed
1390 [15:12:38] <BCMM> michael2: what version of debian are you using? and have you ever done apt-get update?
1391 [15:12:43] <joepublic> jimm, michael2 said he was seeking to install gnome
1392 [15:12:43] <michael2> jimm: gnome
1393 [15:12:54] <michael2> BC
1394 [15:12:54] <jimm> you want gnome... ok,
1395 [15:13:14] <michael2> BCMM: yes I've apt-get updated
1396 [15:13:22] <jimm> apt install task-gnome-desktop
1397 [15:13:25] <rant> michael2: yeah its not installed on my system either. and I have a full mate install. you could install it with apt install netcat
1398 [15:13:35] <rant> but if your repos arent right that isnt gonna work
1399 [15:13:38] <quarterback> Hello, I'm trying to setup audio in debian stretch 9.4 . I have a Realtek ALC662 audio chip. In settings-->Sound, I see two audio adapters. Built-in audio and Output to built in audio. How to enable audio to hear any sounds?
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1401 [15:14:04] <jimm> oh, that too... maybe install netcat first
1402 [15:14:31] <quarterback> rant, Do you have time to take a look?
1403 [15:14:35] <rant> michael2: are you on IRC from this machine?
1404 [15:14:46] <rant> quarterback: its the weekend I got nothing but time :P
1405 [15:14:50] <michael2> rant: `apt-get install netcat' prints [E: pacakge 'netcat' has no insallation candidate]
1406 [15:14:53] <quarterback> Right now, there is only noise coming out of the headphone audio jack.
1407 [15:15:07] <michael2> rant: no im IRC'ing from another machine
1408 [15:15:10] <quarterback> rant, Oh, sweet.
1409 [15:15:49] <jimm> ok, show us: cat /etc/apt/sources.list | wc -l
1410 [15:15:54] <rant> michael2: then yes your sources aren't right.. first check ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and see if there are any files in there (shouldnt be)
1411 [15:16:02] <jimm> # using cat that way for a reason
1412 [15:16:12] <joepublic> michael2, your /etc/apt/sources.list contains a line such as deb replaced-url
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1414 [15:16:45] <quarterback> rant, Why is the output of both audio jacks contain only noise? I have one on front, another on rear of the pc cabinet.
1415 [15:16:57] <quarterback> does* for is
1416 [15:16:59] <michael2> rant: /etc/apt/sources.list.d is empty
1417 [15:17:02] <joepublic> Gee for mine wc tells me "60"
1418 [15:17:07] *** Joins: killian99 (~killian99@replaced-ip )
1419 [15:17:31] <jimm> but you should also have /etc/apt/sources.list, right?
1420 [15:17:54] *** Joins: ald3baran (uid231815@replaced-ip )
1421 [15:18:03] <rant> michael2: sudo echo -e "deb replaced-url
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1423 [15:18:27] <rant> michael2: that'll write you a brand new sources list with proper stretch sources, update your cache and install your gnome task
1424 [15:18:40] <jimm> michael2, test -e /etc/apt/sources.list && echo yes || echo no
1425 [15:18:44] <quarterback> rant, I'm looking at replaced-url
1426 [15:19:16] <michael2> joepublic: rant: jimm: my /etc/apt/sources.list only contains
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1428 [15:20:01] <michael2> deb replaced-url
1429 [15:20:08] <oo_miguel> I do not understand why after installing kriga midnight commander uses it to open pdf file (when i press enter). instead of xpdf or evince?
1430 [15:20:16] <jimm> michael2, and that's it?
1431 [15:20:17] <oo_miguel> s/kriga/krita
1432 [15:20:25] <michael2> deb-src replaced-url
1433 [15:20:39] *** Quits: Ryushin (~Ryushin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1434 [15:20:48] <michael2> jimm: yes, thats it (and the commented out deb cd-rom)
1435 [15:21:01] <jimm> just those two lines...
1436 [15:21:09] <rant> quarterback: well your sound should've been auto detected. go to paste.debian.net and paste the output of aplay -L and give us the url
1437 [15:21:11] <joepublic> michael2: rant's large command with the &&s will fix that.
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1439 [15:21:44] <jimm> michael2, which version of debian did you install? 9"?
1440 [15:21:45] <BCMM> michael2: not being able to install any packages is pretty much expected behaviour under those circumstances... add an actual debian mirror
1441 [15:21:55] <michael2> jimm: 9.4
1442 [15:22:59] <jimm> there's that echo command they gave above
1443 [15:23:03] <michael2> BCMM: yeah adding the mirror is the part the installer errored out at
1444 [15:23:22] <jimm> rant gave it
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1446 [15:23:53] <jimm> do you have nano?"
1447 [15:24:00] <quarterback> rant, I am looking at this page replaced-url
1448 [15:24:13] <michael2> jimm: rant: yes Im in the process of (manually typing in) rants deb lines (at least the ones I don't have)
1449 [15:25:02] <michael2> jimm: I never checked if nano installed - this install has vim
1450 [15:25:04] <quarterback> rant, Here is the output of aplay -L as root : replaced-url
1451 [15:25:05] <jimm> let's give it to you in shorter chunks
1452 [15:25:20] <michael2> jimm: (well vim.tiny anyway)
1453 [15:25:44] <jimm> you have vim.tiny?
1454 [15:26:04] <michael2> jimm: yeah, the installed added it
1455 [15:26:17] <jimm> ok
1456 [15:26:29] <michael2> s/installed/installer/
1457 [15:26:30] <jimm> let me separate those for you
1458 [15:27:09] <quarterback> rant, Does that make any sense or you see any fault in sound configuration?
1459 [15:27:39] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1460 [15:28:42] <rant> quarterback: that was only the first step that tells me your hardware is detected, drivers are loaded, and the base sound config is pointing in the right place and you dont seem to have pulseaudio or such.. gimme one second..
1461 [15:28:50] <jimm> michael2, (as root or using sudo): echo "deb replaced-url
1462 [15:28:57] <jimm> (more coming)
1463 [15:28:59] <joepublic> the "security.debian.org" sources have a limited selection of patched packages that compliment the full selection; if you have only the security packages in your sources.list then that is, if not "the" problem, at least "a" problem.
1464 [15:29:10] <quarterback> rant, replaced-url
1465 [15:30:07] <jimm> michael2, sudo echo "deb replaced-url
1466 [15:30:53] <rant> quarterback: next you want to check alsamixer and make sure none of the channels are muted (showing MM on the bottom) particularly the main/pcm ones
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1469 [15:31:35] <jimm> michael2, be sure you type those accurately
1470 [15:31:36] <rant> quarterback: and also the command groups (as your user) to verify that the user is in the audio group
1471 [15:31:59] <quarterback> rant, I did type adduser amit audio
1472 [15:32:09] <jimm> michael2, when done, sudo apt update
1473 [15:32:22] <themill> btw "sudo" and "echo" aren't a useful combination ;)
1474 [15:32:28] <rant> quarterback: yes well you still want to veryfiy with id or groups as the group perms may not have taken affect
1475 [15:32:43] <quarterback> rant, alsamixer seems to show only one thing - pulse audio, there is only one channel in it.
1476 [15:33:02] <quarterback> rant, How to do that?
1477 [15:33:07] <jimm> quarterback, you might have to log out and log back in again to see the change in your groups
1478 [15:33:10] <rant> quarterback: just type id or groups as your user
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1481 [15:33:31] <rant> quarterback: if you dont see audio there, then as jimm says you need to relog
1482 [15:33:51] <michael2> jimm: ive typed your list of commands and apt has launched off into a 925MB download!
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1484 [15:34:07] <michael2> rant:
1485 [15:34:13] <rant> quarterback: you press F6 in the alsamixer to change to your sound card
1486 [15:34:21] <michael2> rant: ^
1487 [15:34:32] <jimm> michael2, ok, and you did apt update?
1488 [15:34:47] <michael2> jimm: yes
1489 [15:34:55] <quarterback> rant, I did , I selected hardware sound card, yet it reverts to pulse audio.
1490 [15:35:10] <jimm> michael2, what did you do after that?
1491 [15:35:42] <quarterback> rant, After selecting sound card by pressing F6 in alsamixer, it reverts to card: pulseaudio, chip:pulse audio.
1492 [15:35:46] <rant> quarterback: thats fine we're not worried about what card is selected just looking to read the hardware and not pulseaudio's mixer levels.. you want to make sure the realtek's master, pcm, headphone or w/e is showing 00 and not MM at the bottom and that the volume is up
1493 [15:35:56] <quarterback> rant, This is when I exit alsamixer by pressing ESC
1494 [15:36:17] <quarterback> rant, All levels are up in alsamixer
1495 [15:36:18] <rant> quarterback: F6 should show you a list which includes your Realtek device
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1498 [15:36:41] <rant> quarterback: the levels arent all thats important.. if it says MM and not 00 at the bottom then the channel is muted and level is irrelevant
1499 [15:37:32] <quarterback> rant, The vertical bar shows 00 at the bottom, even when I change levels in each bar. The change in level is shown by another number at the bottom.
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1502 [15:38:01] <jimm> michael2, ok, I think you have a good /etc/apt/sources.list now; at some point you might want to get netcat
1503 [15:38:02] <michael2> jimm: after i added the deb sources you gave and updated local index, I ran `sudo apt-get install task-gnome-desktop' triggered a huge download of packages
1504 [15:38:15] <quarterback> rant, There is no MM in any vertical bar in alsa mixer.
1505 [15:38:43] <jimm> ohh, that's gonna be awhile to download all that :)
1506 [15:38:55] <rant> quarterback: ok then your issues may be with pulseaudio or something else higher-level as the hardware seems to be working. you can verify this by trying a low-level sound test or tell me what you've tried to use sound with and if there were any errors or simply no sound
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1510 [15:39:31] <quarterback> rant, The sound card setting changes in alsamixer to pulse audio even after i select a card pressing F6 and then pressing ESC for exit.
1511 [15:39:57] <quarterback> rant, How to do a low level sound test?
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1513 [15:40:57] <michael2> jimm: yeah it seemed to me there was a duplication of sources in the deb lines you gave, "stretch-updates" coming out of both replaced-url
1514 [15:41:37] <rant> quarterback: aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav try that first as your user then as root
1515 [15:41:48] <rant> quarterback: let me know if you hear anything or get any errors
1516 [15:41:56] <michael2> jimm: rant: sorry I mean in the lines rant gave me to add to my apt sources
1517 [15:42:14] <quarterback> rant, Sound seems to be up now, I hear sound in a youtube video. There is still accompanying noise which is at the same level as other sound.
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1519 [15:42:19] <jimm> we'll fix that later
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1521 [15:42:46] <jimm> if it's downloading task-gnome-desktop, it's basically working
1522 [15:42:50] <dvs> michael2, the first "security/updates" was there before.
1523 [15:42:59] <quarterback> rant, That wav file played
1524 [15:43:16] <rant> jimm: your use of a double redirec >> would fubar a source.list without a trailing newline I used > and specified all sources for that reason using echo -e with \n newlines
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1526 [15:43:27] <quarterback> rant, I could hear sound with the file on command line.
1527 [15:43:28] <dvs> quarterback, I bet speaker-test is still running.
1528 [15:43:34] <rant> quarterback: as your user?
1529 [15:43:39] <jimm> there should be an executable called speaker-test
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1532 [15:43:53] <quarterback> rant, As a normal user. Let me try that as root as well.
1533 [15:44:02] <rant> quarterback: not important if its working as user
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1536 [15:44:33] <rant> quarterback: so the problem is either pulseaudio or the application you were trying to use.. which application were you trying to get sound from that led you to think it wasnt working, and were there any errors?
1537 [15:44:36] <quarterback> dvs, I now execute speaker-test. I hear only noise in both speakers ( of my headphones )
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1539 [15:45:01] <dvs> quarterback, that's correct. that's what it should do
1540 [15:45:04] <quarterback> rant, There is some background noise always present while playing any audio file.
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1542 [15:45:26] <dvs> quarterback, use the "-c wav" option if you want nicer output.
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1544 [15:45:40] <dvs> i mean "-t wav"
1545 [15:45:46] <michael2> dvs: rant: yeah I already had one of the lines rant gave - also there is a difference in the deb lines. the deb.debian.org is "stretch-updates" and the security.debian.org release is "stretch/updates" - I think
1546 [15:46:14] <dvs> michael2, keep the "deb.debian.org" line
1547 [15:46:25] <rant> michael2: yes you want 3 lines, all three that I specified.. one is the main repo, one is security and one is volitile updates
1548 [15:46:45] <dvs> michael2, oops sorry, those are two different repos. Keep then both.
1549 [15:46:47] <quarterback> dvs, Now I hear a human speaker saying "Front left"
1550 [15:47:01] <dvs> quarterback, so speaker-test worked.
1551 [15:47:02] <rant> michael2: sudo echo -e "deb replaced-url
1552 [15:47:21] <rant> that's an all-encompassing solution, it writes a brand new sources list, updates cache and installs your desktop
1553 [15:47:25] <themill> rant: sudo+echo is meaningless
1554 [15:47:29] <quarterback> dvs, There is always some background noise which is present while playing the speaker-test with -t wav option.
1555 [15:47:45] <rant> themill: really?
1556 [15:48:02] <themill> rant: if the user is already root, it does nothing, if the user isn't root then you'll just get permission denied.
1557 [15:48:03] <michael2> rant: I think the sudo won't apply past the >
1558 [15:48:27] <quarterback> rant, The front audio jack produces noise, the rear audio jack doesn't produce noise. This seems to be the problem.
1559 [15:48:30] <rant> michael2: alright, well then just become root and omit all the sudo crap :P sudo su first if you have to :P
1560 [15:48:30] <michael2> for the sudo to apply you might need sudo { .... }
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1562 [15:49:32] <rant> quarterback: you may have a hardware issue then, like a broken jack, or somewhere the cables running to it are improperly grounded or something
1563 [15:50:14] <quarterback> rant, Seems like a grounding issue. I can hear music in a youtube video. Still voice level is somewhat low.
1564 [15:50:15] <michael2> rant: I the vim.tiny editor has all the vi commands, so i just opened the existing file and did `yy' to copy the exisiting lines and then just changed the parts as needed
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1566 [15:50:44] <dvs> michael2, so what does the sources.list say now?
1567 [15:51:19] *** Quits: baptist (~baptsk@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1568 [15:51:20] <michael2> dvs: ill try run a nc command and pastebin it for you
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1570 [15:51:45] <quarterback> rant, In sound settings, I see three output devices (which are probably virtual devices) : Line out, built in audio and Simultaneous output to built in audio. Which should be chosen?
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1574 [15:52:33] <quarterback> rant, Sound level is low, sounds are audible at max sound settings.
1575 [15:53:00] <rant> quarterback: your sound card just may lack an adequate amplifier for unamplified headphones
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1577 [15:53:14] <quarterback> rant, Probably.
1578 [15:53:21] <rant> many cheap sound codec chips have no amplifier
1579 [15:53:54] <quarterback> rant, This is a cheap board actually, I built this pc for less than $100 with a core2duo processor.
1580 [15:54:47] <quarterback> rant, In sound settings, which option should be chosen? line out or built-in audio?
1581 [15:54:53] <rant> quarterback: yeah.. I've done it more than a few times myself. typically they output enough to be heard with nothing more than headphones but particularly if you have some larger headphones which have a lot of resistance, an unamplified line is gonna be weak
1582 [15:55:21] <rant> quarterback: whatever you have setup is fine.. its working. Line out is usually unamplified
1583 [15:55:43] <quarterback> rant, Okay, sound seems to be high now after I go over 100% in sound volume level setting.
1584 [15:56:03] <rant> quarterback: yes pulse-audio will let you go beyond 100% it software aplified
1585 [15:56:07] <quarterback> rant, Quality of sound seems fine too.
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1588 [15:57:37] <rant> quarterback: I'd recommend buying a cheap pair of speakers with a headphone jack.. that'll not only give you amplification but will get around your faulty front jack by giving you a new one on the speakers that you can plug into your working rear jack
1589 [15:57:43] <quarterback> rant, If you are curious, this is sound architecture in linux : replaced-url
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1592 [15:58:27] <rant> quarterback: I'm aware of many sound architectures in linux.. I been using it for over 15 years.. fooled with OSS, ALSA, ESD, Pulseaudio, etc..
1593 [15:58:39] <quarterback> rant, I've connected it a woofer system. Sound is coming fine.
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1605 [16:01:25] <quarterback> rant, Appreciate your hints and help!
1606 [16:01:38] <jimm> michael2, well it's just something that's specific about termbin.com on port 9999, the program that listens there wants to hear from nc
1607 [16:02:07] <jimm> I like it because you can pastebin any linux command output
1608 [16:02:08] <michael2> dvs: I tried to install netcat so I could termbin you the sources.list file - but the big task-gnome-desktop is still running (currently unpacking and installing the packages its downloaded)
1609 [16:02:17] <quarterback> is there any sound equalizer in linux?
1610 [16:02:28] <jimm> is it still downloading?
1611 [16:02:28] <dvs> ok
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1616 [16:03:59] <michael2> jimm: yeah that paste nc one liner is handy - download seems done - and dpkg installing it seems
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1618 [16:04:13] <michael2> but I can
1619 [16:04:36] <quarterback> rant, How to enable bass in the sound system?
1620 [16:04:52] <jimm> yeah, if it's installing the packages, you shouldn't interrupt that
1621 [16:05:00] <michael2> _cant_ install netcat in another terminal - because apt/dpkg have a lock file
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1623 [16:05:10] <jimm> if it was still downloading them, you could interrupt that
1624 [16:05:24] <dvs> jimm, no, it's installing.
1625 [16:05:50] <michael2> [processing triggers...]
1626 [16:06:02] <jimm> yep, there's a lock
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1628 [16:06:35] <jimm> (because dpkg doesn't know how to install two things at once)
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1632 [16:08:13] <rant> quarterback: apt install pulseaudio-equalizer
1633 [16:08:26] <michael2> I thought netcat might have just been installed as part of the gnome-desktop task
1634 [16:08:55] <rant> quarterback: then pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol && qpaeq
1635 [16:09:30] <rant> quarterback: will let you adjust an equalizer for all applications using pulseaudio
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1637 [16:10:12] <debron> Hello guys. I have debian Buster in my system, last 2 days i keep getting packages to autoremove because not being used anymore. I am quite confused about this, why is this happening? haven't removed anything manually, so, why them got installed in the first time, and why the system suggest me to remove them now? one of these packages is mysql-common, for example. Its true that I have installed postgresql,
1638 [16:10:15] <debron> but that's reason enought to delete mysql-common?
1639 [16:10:28] <quarterback> rant, Thanks
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1641 [16:11:25] <rant> debron: Buster is supported on OFTC in #debian-next and in your example postgresql may have removed another DB and therefor auto-installed deps of that other DB that was removed are now orphaned and no longer required
1642 [16:11:42] <quarterback> rant, There is no package called pulseaudio-equalizer in debian
1643 [16:11:56] <debron> Aaah rant
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1645 [16:12:06] <rant> ,v pulseaudio-equalizer
1646 [16:12:07] <judd> Package: pulseaudio-equalizer on amd64 -- stretch: 10.0-1+deb9u1; buster: 11.1-5; sid: 11.1-5
1647 [16:12:14] <debron> but I haven't created any DB in mysql, maybe was built-in?
1648 [16:12:18] <rant> quarterback: sure there is ^^
1649 [16:12:29] <debron> my debian system is quite new, I installed it 2 days ago
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1652 [16:13:31] <michael2> rant: jim: dvs: gnome-desktop install is now completed. I tried to install netcat to post the output of source.list - but i've lost the network connection on that machine. shall I just try reboot back into the graphical desktop now?
1653 [16:13:50] <quarterback> rant, It works on ubuntu, not debian.
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1655 [16:14:07] <dvs> michael2, yeah sure.
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1658 [16:14:37] <michael2> cool, rebooting...
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1660 [16:15:01] <rant> debron: there are any number of reasons why the package may have been installede automatically and is no longer required. check apt rdepends mysql-common to see a list of things that may depend on it or check your package manager logs
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1662 [16:15:20] <dvs> debron, you installed stretch two days ago, and you still went to buster?
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1677 [16:21:31] <rant> quarterback: idk what kind of crap you're doing.. but this is a debian support channel, I'm running debian 9.4 stretch, and I installed and tested that solution before I suggested it to you
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1680 [16:21:47] <debron> dvs: yes, wanted newer kernel, installed new kernel in stretch and later had problems trying to install repository packages, since I am too newbie to fix it, and it was still a recent installation, I just switched to a debian release with higher kernel version
1681 [16:22:12] <debron> and now I have my integrated graphics recognized and working, and no problems with packages...
1682 [16:22:20] <debron> coffe lake processor... too new shit :/
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1684 [16:22:35] <dvs> debron, yeah, you had the repository package problems because you installed all the available packages from backports.
1685 [16:22:37] <debron> but Buster is doing a great job for me!
1686 [16:22:49] <debron> dvs: yes, I did upgrade, stupidly
1687 [16:23:21] <debron> instead of just getting the kernel
1688 [16:23:29] <debron> i upgraded first, after adding backports
1689 [16:23:41] <debron> following a guide in the internet... damn that guyç
1690 [16:23:42] <debron> lol
1691 [16:23:45] <debron> damn me, really
1692 [16:23:51] <dvs> debron, if you're running buster as a newbie then you are going to have a rough time when problems crop up.
1693 [16:24:34] <debron> ... well Im hoping this not happen often, its testing, not unestable
1694 [16:24:54] <dvs> well, it has in the past.
1695 [16:25:06] <quarterback> rant, I typed apt-get install pulseaudio-equalizer on debian stretch, it says package not found.
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1697 [16:25:52] <quarterback> rant, I got this error - E: Unable to locate package pulseaudio-equalizer
1698 [16:26:07] <quarterback> It seems like a repository should be added for this to work.
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1702 [16:26:46] <rant> like a debian main repository
1703 [16:27:12] <dvs> ,v pulseaudio-equalizer
1704 [16:27:13] <judd> Package: pulseaudio-equalizer on amd64 -- stretch: 10.0-1+deb9u1; buster: 11.1-5; sid: 11.1-5
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1708 [16:27:22] <dvs> yup
1709 [16:27:24] <quarterback> rant, I have added debian main repository.
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1715 [16:27:53] <dvs> quarterback, either you didn't do an "apt update" or it isn't the main repo
1716 [16:28:02] <quarterback> rant, I am running i386 version of debian. I think its 32 bit.
1717 [16:28:08] <rant> quarterback: so am I
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1726 [16:29:59] <debron> dvs: If I got crazy in Buster I will switch back to stretch and add the kernel without upgrading packages for backports. But maybe its good for me staying in buster for now , maybe could learn something
1727 [16:30:00] <quarterback> still, I get the same error - unable to locate package pulseaudio-equalizer
1728 [16:30:06] <camil_toughbook> hello
1729 [16:30:24] <dvs> debron, downgrading is not supported
1730 [16:30:30] <debron> reinstall
1731 [16:30:33] <rant> replaced-url
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1736 [16:33:05] <camil_toughbook> testin4
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1747 [16:35:41] <quarterback> rant, Unable to locate package here on my pc :/
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1749 [16:36:42] <rant> quarterback: its not that hard to figure out.. either you have invalid sources or your cache is fubar.. you want help, output apt-cache policy to paste.debian.net
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1760 [16:38:11] <michael2> rant: jimm: dvs: themill: BCMM: rebooted and stretch with gnome-desktop is all installed and working thanks for the help!
1761 [16:38:19] <BCMM> np
1762 [16:38:22] <dvs> yay
1763 [16:38:23] <quarterback> rant, replaced-url
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1766 [16:38:52] <michael2> dvs: source.list output is here (if you're still interested)
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1769 [16:39:03] <michael2> replaced-url
1770 [16:39:14] <dvs> quarterback, yeah, there's onlly the package in the cache: no external sources.
1771 [16:39:15] <u0_a81_> oh gtu
1772 [16:39:48] <rant> quarterback: according to that, you have no sources in your cache.. so either you dont have anything in /etc/apt/sources.list* or your cache is stale
1773 [16:40:02] <dvs> michael2, yeah, that looks good.
1774 [16:40:40] <quarterback> rant, I'm sure either of those.
1775 [16:41:20] <rant> quarterback: here is my sources.list you can copy to /etc/apt/sources.list then apt-get update replaced-url
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1778 [16:42:03] <dvs> quarterback, or michael2 replaced-url
1779 [16:42:04] <rant> quarterback: you can comment out or omit the deb-src lines if you like, it'll speed up the cache update, as its only needed for downloading source code packages
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1785 [16:43:40] <quarterback> rant, I'm in India, I can post the sources.list I have on my pc. I don't have the security deb sources in my sources.list.
1786 [16:44:19] <michael2> dvs: ok thanks
1787 [16:44:25] <rant> quarterback: according to apt-cache policy you have no sources at all
1788 [16:44:42] <rant> quarterback: those are the official debian sources, and deb.debian.org will find a mirror suitable for you
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1790 [16:44:51] <u0_a81_> any one share dork new
1791 [16:45:11] <michael2> rant: cool, thanks
1792 [16:45:11] <quarterback> rant, I had only added regional mirrors in my sources list. Seems like they are not updating those mirrors in India.
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1794 [16:45:37] <remy> whats the best *.nzb downloader you know ?
1795 [16:45:48] <rant> quarterback: yes well I'd try the ones I am using as they are the official sources, if those dont work we could try something else
1796 [16:46:20] <u0_a81_> help to search web vuln
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1798 [16:47:14] <quarterback> rant, Seems like adding pulse audio repository totally screwed up my sources.list. I always see it looking to update pulse audio repository I added from a ubuntu website. Stupid I think.
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1800 [16:47:36] <dvs> -_-
1801 [16:47:40] <remy> anyone?
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1804 [16:48:02] <rant> quarterback: yes that was a bad idea
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1808 [16:49:34] <quarterback> rant, This is output of apt-get update: replaced-url
1809 [16:49:46] <rant> quarterback: paste the output of this command: dpkg -l apt base-files base-passwd bash coreutils dash debian-archive-keyring debianutils dpkg libc6 linux-image-686 login lsb-base man-db manpages multiarch-support perl python systemd tzdata ucf udev util-linux zlib1g | egrep ^.i | awk '{print $2 ": " $3 " " $4 }'
1810 [16:50:17] <rant> quarterback: for the purposes of seeing if whatever you did has irreversibly caused your system's base to be screwed up
1811 [16:51:44] <quarterback> rant, replaced-url
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1813 [16:53:20] <quarterback> rant, brb in about 20 minutes
1814 [16:53:22] <rant> quarterback: that matches mine.. so none of your really important packages have been changed... if you just remove those repos you will probably be fine
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1821 [16:58:04] <jimm> michael2, welcome... enjoy
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1987 [18:23:08] <laurus> When I start up my machine, I now hear a quick burst of loud white noise. Now when I try to play any audio file, I hear that same white noise. It's the same no matter what I do with any volume settings. Any ideas?
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1994 [18:25:55] <jelly> laurus: which debian release? what output are you using for audio?
1995 [18:26:08] <laurus> Hello jelly. Debian Stretch. Speakers output :P
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1997 [18:26:29] <jelly> so, analog output, not hdmi
1998 [18:26:36] <laurus> jelly: Ah yes.
1999 [18:26:41] <laurus> (Sorry, not an audio expert.)
2000 [18:27:00] <jelly> did sound ever work right on this machine?
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2002 [18:27:03] <laurus> It's just solid white noise, at a constant volume
2003 [18:27:20] <laurus> Yes, it has been working up until this reboot. I have no idea what changed! Maybe some kind of update messed it up.
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2010 [18:29:03] <laurus> The constant static at constant volume makes me think there's just a simple setting that got messed up.
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2013 [18:30:34] <laurus> OK, I just found that when I did "sudo rmmod snd_hda_intel; sudo modprobe snd_hda_intel" and then played an audio file, I heard one small pop and then silence. But after that when I loaded pulseaudio, now the static has resumed.
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2017 [18:31:35] <laurus> And when I start up pulseaudio I get that static burst that I heard when starting up my computer.
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2022 [18:33:01] <jelly> laurus: what does "uname -r" say?
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2025 [18:33:18] <laurus> jelly: 4.9.0-6-amd64
2026 [18:33:23] <laurus> That's the kernel I'm running, correct?
2027 [18:33:46] <jelly> if it's the current 4.9.0-6-amd64, see if booting an older 4.9.0-5-amd64 ABI kernel makes sound work again
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2029 [18:33:59] <laurus> Interesting, how do I downgrade it like that?
2030 [18:34:12] <jelly> just pick the older kernel in boot menu
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2032 [18:34:29] <laurus> OK let me try that. Be right back.
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2041 [18:36:17] <laurus> jelly: unfortunately that didn't fix it. exact same situation.
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2044 [18:36:26] <laurus> I feel like some configuration file probably got changed somehow, somewhere...
2045 [18:36:58] <laurus> Like, there are some of files in .config/pulse that I certainly never put there, might they be causing the problem?
2046 [18:37:12] <laurus> And why doesn't the audio work anymore when pulseaudio is disabled? I feel like that's different now too.
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2055 [18:39:35] <jelly> laurus: if pulseaudio is stopped you can remove the whole ~/.pulse/ directory
2056 [18:39:48] <jelly> but first make alsa work on its own
2057 [18:39:57] <laurus> jelly: OK. Do you think it's the modprobe.d alsa options?
2058 [18:40:01] <laurus> (that are causing this issue)
2059 [18:40:13] <jelly> did you change any?
2060 [18:40:23] <laurus> Originally when I set up this machine I had to put a setting in there.
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2063 [18:40:27] <laurus> But I haven't touched it in months.
2064 [18:40:47] <jelly> it might be unneeded perhaps
2065 [18:40:51] <laurus> OK
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2072 [18:41:51] <laurus> I wonder what caused this.
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2092 [18:46:19] <laurus> Thanks jelly
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2094 [18:46:26] <laurus> I think I'll just give up for a while
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2115 [18:52:56] <laurus> jelly: OK I think I foudn the problem. The "Capture" of Headset Mic is set to CAPTURE.
2116 [18:53:01] <laurus> How do I disable it?
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2122 [18:54:45] <jelly> that's just a choice, which input to use when recording. Should have no effect on playback. (There should be a separate mixer to control volume of audio coming from that input)
2123 [18:54:54] <laurus> Oh OK.
2124 [18:54:55] <laurus> :(
2125 [18:54:58] <laurus> Any other ideas?
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2133 [18:56:05] <jelly> um, ask in #alsa maybe, I'm not good with audio issues
2134 [18:56:11] <laurus> OK, thanks anyway!
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2136 [18:56:22] <jelly> !alsa checklist
2137 [18:56:22] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
2138 [18:56:51] <jelly> you don't have the "no output at all" problem
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2140 [18:57:24] <laurus> Yeah...
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2145 [18:59:58] <minzochin> all the man pages and doc (texinfo) in "main" are free, right?
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2152 [19:01:51] <kriskropd> hi - it's been a while since I've had to install debian - I was playing around with the installer since I had the opportunity and found the network console replaced-url
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2170 [19:06:59] <petemc> kriskropd: i havent used it but did you try alt + 2/3/4 ?
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2175 [19:09:19] <kriskropd> petemc: yeah that doesn't work
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2180 [19:11:01] <petemc> kriskropd: are you trying to manage an install via ssh ?
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2183 [19:11:20] <kriskropd> like I said - I'm "playing around"
2184 [19:11:30] <kriskropd> just wanted to know if it was tmux or not, I guess
2185 [19:12:58] <jelly> maybe it's screen? Maybe it's documented someplace?
2186 [19:13:02] <jelly> !install guide
2187 [19:13:03] <dpkg> well, stretch installation guide is The Installation Guide for Debian 9 "Stretch" can be found at replaced-url
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2189 [19:13:15] <kriskropd> jelly: I checked but it didn't specify
2190 [19:13:18] <petemc> i think it is just a 'normal' virtual console
2191 [19:13:19] <kriskropd> replaced-url
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2193 [19:13:42] <petemc> kriskropd: did you try alt - f2 ?
2194 [19:13:51] <kriskropd> yes
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2196 [19:14:56] <jelly> that's a wiki page that anyone can edit, did you look at the actual documentation
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2202 [19:16:41] <kriskropd> jelly: doesn't seem to be in here replaced-url
2203 [19:16:46] <kriskropd> ctrl-f "network install"
2204 [19:17:00] <kriskropd> maybe some other one
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2208 [19:18:14] <jelly> replaced-url
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2217 [19:24:29] <rant> can network-manager handle two different wifi cards or should I just keep unloading my internal wifi when I use an external (usb) one?
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2219 [19:25:07] <rant> my antenna isnt so great in the laptop so its good for local connections (less interference) but the usb one is better for longer range
2220 [19:25:24] <awal1> rant, it can yeah
2221 [19:25:40] <zy]x[yz> I read on the Introduction to Debian Packaging wiki article that package names need to be lowercase and use underscores instead of hyphons. So I'm packaging an offending project Foo-1.2.3.tar.gz which contains the directory Foo-1.2.3, do I only need to rename the tarball foo_1.2.3.tar.gz or do I also need to rename the directory inside of it?
2222 [19:25:54] <zy]x[yz> er, sorry, foo_1.2.3.orig.tar.gz
2223 [19:25:55] <awal1> but I have a better experience with wicd, rant
2224 [19:26:09] <rant> I was just confused because the Fn+F5 radio softkey seems to disable my usb dongle which I thought it'd only disable the internal
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2227 [19:27:37] <rant> awal1: yeah wicd is a pile of dung in my experience.. real nice lookin but it seems to cause problems.. on my opi it was causing driver crashes for example as soon as I removed wicd it worked fine and I havent had a crash since
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2229 [19:29:18] <babilen> zy]x[yz: I'd expect the orig.tar.gz to contain the actual code, rather than Foo-1.2.3 -- sounds like their release scripts/procedure is a bit buggy/suboptimal
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2234 [19:30:13] <awal1> rant, well, me I have a better experience with wicd, for both internal and external wifi adapters; nm was always a bit problematic
2235 [19:30:30] <awal1> anyway, it may be a matter of firmwares/hardware
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2237 [19:30:53] <babilen> I still don't understand why wicd wasn't allowed to rest in peace
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2239 [19:31:08] <awal1> huh
2240 [19:31:21] <zy]x[yz> babilen, strainge, the tarball-containing-a-directory method is how I normally see it. I thought that was the widely-accepted convention. anyway, thanks, I'll do what you said
2241 [19:31:45] <awal1> nm I get around 60% wifi signal ; wicd 90+ !
2242 [19:32:22] <awal1> well, it may be just a matter of how they interpret signal
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2245 [19:33:39] <superlinux> hello. I have a problem with my bootable RAID1 software raid using mdadm. it says that it cannot assemble the raid array because of UUID mismatch in the real disks. so how can I force assembling the array even though the UUID is different?
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2248 [19:35:56] <bluewhitew> @superlinux hello, can u print out the error message?
2249 [19:35:59] <babilen> zy]x[yz: You might want to join #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net (aka irc.debian.org) for packaging related questions
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2251 [19:36:54] <zy]x[yz> babilen, thanks
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2259 [19:39:29] <kriskropd> ooo - that's neat - so as I was completing the debian installation, at 98% the kernel panicked while setting up console-setup :o
2260 [19:39:31] <kriskropd> replaced-url
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2262 [19:40:39] <bluewhitew> you got a machine check exception
2263 [19:40:49] <bluewhitew> u have some problem on your hardware
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2265 [19:41:17] <kriskropd> yeah, but seems console-setup triggers it - might clue me in to what needs replacing
2266 [19:41:26] <superlinux> bluenemo, I am having the ' /dev/sdaX has wrong uuid' . I can boot normally on any one of the hard disks separately .
2267 [19:41:38] <superlinux> bluewhitew, , I am having the ' /dev/sdaX has wrong uuid' . I can boot normally on any one of the hard disks separately .
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2269 [19:42:59] <superlinux> the problem is that I cannot now regenerate the error message because i will have to disconnect and unmount.
2270 [19:43:10] <bluewhitew> @superlinux try to do a things like mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --add /dev/sdd1 mdadm --manage /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdd2
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2272 [19:43:33] <superlinux> bluewhitew, but it's mounted.
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2274 [19:43:35] <bluewhitew> maybe first you have to broken the mirror
2275 [19:43:36] <superlinux> let me see
2276 [19:44:15] <superlinux> ah right!
2277 [19:44:32] <bluewhitew> take a look at replaced-url
2278 [19:45:05] <superlinux> so i shutdown.. remove the one disk, and then delete it from the array listing. isn't that what you mean?
2279 [19:45:21] <superlinux> then re-add? correct?
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2283 [19:46:00] <bluewhitew> you can do without remove your hard disk
2284 [19:46:01] <bluewhitew> mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --remove /dev/sdb1
2285 [19:46:03] <bluewhitew> i think
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2287 [19:46:18] <bluewhitew> have to change the /dev/sdx
2288 [19:46:21] <bluewhitew> with yours
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2292 [19:47:33] <superlinux> but my disks are not faulty. they are fine.
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2295 [19:48:27] <bluewhitew> so try to remove one and after put back to the mirror
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2297 [19:48:42] <jrgill> Is it possible to boot a live environment with debian-9.4.0-amd64-xfce-CD1.iso or is this an installer only?
2298 [19:48:57] <bluewhitew> try to read the article i posted up
2299 [19:49:27] <superlinux> bluewhitew, I remember I saw the article before. I will follow it now
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2302 [19:49:34] <superlinux> thanks.
2303 [19:49:56] <bluewhitew> you're welcome
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2305 [19:50:07] <rant> jrgill: thats an install image, not a live image so no, there is no way to boot it as a live
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2310 [19:51:41] <jrgill> rant: Thanks. Is there a live image for CD?
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2315 [19:52:34] <rant> jrgill: I believe so, do you have a thumbdrive you can just make that a live device
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2317 [19:53:12] <rant> !live
2318 [19:53:12] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system. Live images are available from replaced-url
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2322 [19:56:53] <bluewhitew> @kriskropd maybe you have a overclocked your cpu
2323 [19:57:13] <bluewhitew> or your cpu have some heath problem
2324 [19:57:35] <bluewhitew> take a look at replaced-url
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2348 [20:09:19] <_KaszpiR_> kriskropd run memtest
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2352 [20:12:20] <nullbyte_> how can i seen GPU temp from console?
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2357 [20:15:39] <hypn0> doesnt lm-sensors work :-/ replaced-url
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2362 [20:16:46] <laurus> How do I restart ALSA withotu restarting my machine?
2363 [20:16:58] <ewew> using systemd or init ?
2364 [20:17:07] <nullbyte_> not works
2365 [20:17:15] <laurus> ewew what is the command?
2366 [20:17:31] <hypn0> you have to install it nullbyte_
2367 [20:17:35] <ewew> im asking if your init system is systemd or sysv ?
2368 [20:17:46] <laurus> ewew: I think systemd.
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2371 [20:19:30] <darsie> How bad is it to install steam_latest.deb (from steampowered.com)?
2372 [20:19:36] <ewew> ok. try systemctl restart alsa. but i dont know how its named in your system.
2373 [20:19:54] <laurus> Failed to restart alsa.service: Unit alsa.service not found.
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2376 [20:20:30] <ewew> are you sure you have alsa installed ?
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2378 [20:20:47] <laurus> ewew: yeah.
2379 [20:20:48] <darsie> Do I sign away all rights and hand over control of my computer to steam?
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2381 [20:21:05] <nullbyte_> alias gputemp='nvidia-smi -q -d temperature'
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2385 [20:21:19] <superlinux> ok... anyways.. things are working now.. it's mirroring
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2389 [20:21:54] <superlinux> my raid on /proc/mdstat shows discs are being copied
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2391 [20:22:05] <superlinux> thanks #debian
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2395 [20:24:02] <superlinux> all I had to do is use : mdadm --manage /dev/md/3 --add /dev/sda4 .. and add the missing RAID array elements according to /proc/mdstat. when it finishes, i will see if it boots normally.
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2397 [20:24:44] <ewew> laurus try service stop alsa and then service start alsa. if this does'nt work then you will have to wait for someone who knows.
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2403 [20:25:52] <laurus> Thanks ewew.
2404 [20:25:57] <laurus> IT didn't work :P
2405 [20:25:57] <kriskropd> lol - I took the netbook apart and noticed the onboard-camera was unplugged - plugged it back in and ran debian installer again - at the console-setup it was able to continue now replaced-url
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2407 [20:26:10] <kriskropd> _KaszpiR_ bluewhiteew ^
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2411 [20:27:13] <ewew> laurus or just reboot instead.
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2414 [20:27:30] <superlinux> is there a way to speed up the RAID syncing and mirroring? I am talking about the performance only. I know there are physical limits. but I am hoping to reach the physical limits
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2420 [20:28:33] <_KaszpiR_> kriskropd weird
2421 [20:28:55] <superlinux> is the transfer speed 60MB/s between laptop hard disks OK? can it be increased?
2422 [20:29:27] <_KaszpiR_> superlinux mdadm has default speed limit for syncing, something like 80MB/s max
2423 [20:30:23] <_KaszpiR_> or more?
2424 [20:30:24] <_KaszpiR_> replaced-url
2425 [20:30:29] <superlinux> yes.. how can I reach the 80MBps?
2426 [20:30:51] <_KaszpiR_> reat that article
2427 [20:31:07] <_KaszpiR_> also it depends on used disk specifications
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2435 [20:33:17] <superlinux> brb.
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2441 [20:34:05] * Psi-Jack reats _KaszpiR_
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2443 [20:35:38] <_KaszpiR_> ?
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2447 [20:36:12] <_KaszpiR_> derp
2448 [20:36:13] <_KaszpiR_> *read
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2460 [20:41:40] <tharkun> Good Day. I am trying to set up transparency on the gnome terminal for version 9.4 but the "Transparent background" setting seems to be not available on this version Is there some weird setting that I need to set on gnome to be able to accomplish it?
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2462 [20:42:08] <tharkun> !live
2463 [20:42:08] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system. Live images are available from replaced-url
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2493 [20:58:16] <superlinux> everything now is just fine. I booted normally. thanks again #debian
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2510 [21:07:35] <machinehum> Does anyone have an idea as to how well rocm works on Debian 9 ?
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2517 [21:12:56] <stegno> /msg stegno REGISTER <<email-address>
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2541 [21:23:24] <michael2> hi all. does anyone know if there is an ansible ppa repo for debian?
2542 [21:23:42] <petemc> ppa is an ubuntu thing
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2544 [21:24:31] <michael2> right, do you know if there an equivalent in debian?
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2547 [21:24:47] <rant> ,v ansible
2548 [21:24:48] <judd> Package: ansible on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 1.7.2+dfsg-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-backports: 2.2.1.0-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.2.1.0-2; stretch-backports: 2.4.3.0+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.5.0+dfsg-1; sid: 2.5.0+dfsg-1
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2550 [21:25:22] <rant> michael2: no, debian doesn't encourage 3rd party.. if you talk to us about what sort of ansible issue you have we can probably find an equiv solution to it
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2552 [21:26:21] <rant> michael2: stretch (stable) has 2.2.1.0-2 and you can easily get 2.4.3.0 from backports, or you could make a simple sid backport of 2.5 are the most readily available debian solutions, short of going upstream
2553 [21:26:42] <hyperlumic> ,check-backport ansible
2554 [21:26:43] <judd> Backporting package ansible in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch.
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2557 [21:27:16] <rant> michael2: will any of those solve your concern?
2558 [21:27:36] <michael2> rant: yes, those are perfect solutions. thanks. yeah the issue is getting a version 2.2 or newer .
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2561 [21:28:14] <rant> michael2: alright well then you are covered. as stretch already has 2.2 and 2.4 is available already backported and 2.5 can be fairly easily backported using our ssb proceedure
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2567 [21:29:38] <michael2> rant: are there any downsides to backports ?
2568 [21:30:08] <rant> michael2: well using an official backport, not really.. the downside to using ssb is that you have to maintain the updates
2569 [21:30:23] <hyperlumic> I believe backports doesn't receive security updates the way that stable does.
2570 [21:30:39] <hyperlumic> I could be mistaken on that, though. Do your research.
2571 [21:31:21] <rant> its a different process, but it does recieve updates
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2573 [21:33:14] <rant> basically official backports are from testing, which allows you to easily upgrade to the next stable release without issues, but when there are security issues found and fixed, backports track unstable for security purposes (generally spaeking)
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2576 [21:34:34] <rant> they do recieve those updates.. the only real concern with official backports is that it could cause some incompatibility or issues as the package is often being build against older dependencies which may or may not cause new issues
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2580 [21:35:35] <michael2> so basically backport packages have not had as much testing as packages out of stable? as well as a different updating process?
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2582 [21:36:20] <rant> michael2: yes, but they are far more secure and reliable than doing your own backport (ssb or such) or building from upstream
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2584 [21:36:54] <rant> where you have nobody monitoring it and you are entirely responsible for maintaining that build yourself
2585 [21:37:43] <michael2> and you know who compiled the sources
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2589 [21:38:38] <rant> right, and they will know when there are closed CVE on the package and they will update their build which is why our backports have those long tails on their versions like you see above.. the +dfsg-1~bpo9+1
2590 [21:39:42] <rant> replaced-url
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2595 [21:44:25] <rant> michael2: fwiw, the differences between upstream and ssb is that with ssb you are using already debianized source (ready for packaging, and DFSG compliant), and its a really simple proceedure that can be done with apt as a result.. satisfying all deps, fetching source, building the package all in one simple command
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2597 [21:46:26] <rant> michael2: and I'm no expert on ubuntu but I'd guess their ppa are more like independant 3rd party ssb's than our official backports
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2611 [21:53:40] <michael2> rant: thanks. yeah my understanding is the the ppa's are published, maintained and signed by the upstream (ansible, yubico or some random developer)
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2613 [21:54:22] <michael2> you are basically adding an entire new apt repository.
2614 [21:54:36] <michael2> bbl - getting some food...
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2617 [21:55:08] <rant> michael2: I really dont like ubuntu.. I'd recommended it in a few rare cases for people who would be better served by the frequent updates.. but fact of the matter is it greatly compromises stability of the system having a time-based release cycle and 3rd party repos and can introduce unneccessary security risks
2618 [21:55:54] <rant> for most folk who only occasionally need specific updates for legitimate reasons, debian's model is better and we have a number of ways to address those issues
2619 [21:56:39] <rant> without compromising the overall goals of stability, security, and support of the whole system
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2648 [22:08:06] <zq> hi
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2650 [22:08:55] <zq> i wish to dpkg --remove-architecture i386 even though there is exactly one i386 package installed. how could i do this?
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2653 [22:10:02] <minzochin> all the man pages and doc (texinfo) in "main" are free, right?
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2658 [22:13:12] <rant> minzochin: no, everything in "main" is "free" as in DFSG
2659 [22:14:16] <rant> otherwise it'd be in contrib or non-free if any part of it didn't comply with a DFSG compatible license
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2679 [22:24:07] <shellclear> hello guys, I dont know if this is a correct channel to this question, so please sorry if this question is inadequate, will debian stretch upgrade to gnome 3.26 ?
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2686 [22:29:09] <bites> shellclear: stretch does not get version bumps but buster might replaced-url
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2763 [23:07:40] <retiform> are there any downsides to using sudo instead of root?
2764 [23:07:49] <retiform> security wise
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2766 [23:08:11] <petemc> no
2767 [23:08:39] <petemc> unless sudo breaks, which is should never do
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2770 [23:09:03] <retiform> petemc: then why does Debian use root by default?
2771 [23:09:03] <petemc> unless, perhaps, it is backed by a network authentication service
2772 [23:09:27] <petemc> retiform: debian doesnt impose on its user
2773 [23:09:40] <kriskropd> retiform: if you choose expert install, it should allow you to disable root - i just did that earlier
2774 [23:09:42] <hyperlumic> retiform: The only Linux distro that I know of that forces you to use sudo by default are Ubuntu and its derivatives.
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2776 [23:10:01] <hyperlumic> kriskropd: That's not even the expert install. Just press enter at the root password prompt in the installer.
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2779 [23:10:23] <retiform> hyperlumic: I know it is an option, I am just wondering why
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2781 [23:10:46] <petemc> defaults are contentious
2782 [23:10:47] *** Joins: BrainDommage (~BrainDomm@replaced-ip )
2783 [23:10:48] <kriskropd> because linux is about options
2784 [23:11:12] <ewew> root password is root password, user password is users password.
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2786 [23:11:49] <retiform> ewew do you mean anything by your tautology?
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2789 [23:12:42] <ewew> users password is easier to gain or users login with permision to use sudo.
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2791 [23:12:54] <hyperlumic> retiform: The installer gives you an option. Choose whichever suits you, and stop overthinking this.
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2800 [23:15:25] <bug> at one time the live iso installer didn't make your regular user part of the sudo group, and if you didn't create a root pw during the install you were sol.
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2804 [23:16:40] <kriskropd> bug: until you loaded a livecd/rescue environment and just changed the passwords, ofc :P
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2806 [23:17:07] <bug> also, wasn't there some talk of not including sudo by defalt at all in debian?
2807 [23:17:19] <hyperlumic> It's not included by default if you set a root password.
2808 [23:17:25] <patterson> sudo is fun. Ask it to make you a snadwich
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2816 [23:20:40] <hypn0> isn't it gksudo :-)
2817 [23:21:21] <abrotman> bug: It's not installed by default. I don't have it setup here on this laptop (w/Gnome3)
2818 [23:21:36] <abrotman> Though, I think this laptop started as Jessie
2819 [23:22:08] <JackAndHisFox> people who using sudo doesn't care what happens with their system ...
2820 [23:22:45] <abrotman> huh?
2821 [23:22:52] <hyperlumic> JackAndHisFox: Overgeneralization is overgeneralized. sudo has uses beyond granting root access.
2822 [23:22:55] <bug> sudo just seems like one more unnecessary attack vector.
2823 [23:22:56] * abrotman wonders if the fox is typing ..
2824 [23:23:03] <patterson> It does have a password
2825 [23:23:16] <JackAndHisFox> what bug said
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2827 [23:23:32] <patterson> Close Port 80
2828 [23:23:32] <abrotman> patterson: it can have a password, it's not required
2829 [23:23:42] <joepublic> instead of sudo, then perhaps many commonly used binaries should simply be setuid root, perhaps?
2830 [23:23:48] <JackAndHisFox> if a hacker has your account (and its password) and you have sudo ... i wish you good luck.
2831 [23:23:53] <patterson> Why run sudo without a password
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2833 [23:24:00] <abrotman> I said it's not required ..
2834 [23:24:09] <patterson> I heard you
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2839 [23:24:22] <abrotman> Not sure why that's confusing
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2841 [23:25:31] <hyperlumic> JackAndHisFox: Wouldn't work for any of my systems. Again, you're drastically overgeneralizing.
2842 [23:26:23] <hyperlumic> First: sudo can be quite heavily customized in terms of how it functions. Second: sudo has uses beyond just granting root access, as I said previously.
2843 [23:27:28] <JackAndHisFox> if you need sudo for some daily stuff you must do something wrong then
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2845 [23:27:59] <abrotman> JackAndHisFox: let it go please
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2848 [23:29:12] <aaro> after the sudo vs root war, let's start a vim vs emacs war please :)
2849 [23:29:15] <hyperlumic> JackAndHisFox: Like allowing a web developer to execute an isolated subset of commands as a user not his own without giving him that user's credentials or the root creds for the server?
2850 [23:29:37] <bug> is gksudo going to be removed in the future? i seem to recall something about that.
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2852 [23:31:23] <abrotman> aaro: first you need to solve nvi vs vim
2853 [23:32:00] <joepublic> I think (n)vi(m) was already solved with [esc]q!
2854 [23:32:01] <JackAndHisFox> hyperlumic: i though web developers are using the "so-cool" containers?
2855 [23:32:22] <abrotman> Move on, please
2856 [23:32:30] <hyperlumic> JackAndHisFox: I'm going to take that as a concession that there are valid uses of sudo, since you didn't respond to my actual statement. Cheers.
2857 [23:32:43] <JackAndHisFox> hyperlumic: no, you're wrong.
2858 [23:32:50] <ewew> anything is dangerous if not correctly configured. period.
2859 [23:32:54] <JackAndHisFox> there's a setuid bit.
2860 [23:33:05] <bookworm> beep
2861 [23:33:18] <bookworm> worked *very* well didn't it?
2862 [23:33:25] <joepublic> I actually mentioned setuid sarcastically. I hereby repent and apologize.
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2864 [23:33:50] <bookworm> joepublic: most people understood, some apparently did not
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2866 [23:34:18] <JackAndHisFox> this community seems to be unfriendly, huh?
2867 [23:34:40] <patterson> Seems friendly enough
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2869 [23:35:48] <patterson> I suppose adding an extraneous emoticon wouldn't hurt
2870 [23:35:50] <JackAndHisFox> i angree to this, i guess: replaced-url
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2874 [23:36:58] <abrotman> Oh, I know .. let's talk about something actually useful ...
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2879 [23:37:27] <patterson> How about the flip side. What do you like for simple linux questions. The last time I looked i settle on linuxquestions.org
2880 [23:37:34] <patterson> settled
2881 [23:37:44] <JackAndHisFox> abrotman: look at #11 ... might mirroring you.
2882 [23:38:14] *** Quits: cdown_ (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2883 [23:38:27] <joepublic> This is a pretty friendly, helpful community, but you do the the occasional jerk in here.
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2885 [23:38:51] <abrotman> JackAndHisFox: Please find a new topic to discuss. It's clear there are advantages and disadvantages .. You're not the smartest person in this channel.
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2888 [23:39:23] <JackAndHisFox> "You're not the smartest person in this channel." .. that's what the authod of the article meant with the reason #11
2889 [23:39:29] <JackAndHisFox> *author
2890 [23:39:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o abrotman
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2894 [23:39:54] <abrotman> JackAndHisFox: please find something new to discuss when the +q times out in 15 minutes. Thank you
2895 [23:40:16] <dvs> business as normat I see...
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2901 [23:43:08] <patterson> I like the room beacuse next to #nethack, it's busy all the time
2902 [23:43:23] <abrotman> that's because they're all playing nethack :)
2903 [23:43:30] <patterson> Well, yeah
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2907 [23:44:24] <patterson> ()emoticon)
2908 [23:44:31] <patterson> )
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