252[04:40:25] <hanasaki> on current stretch... any idea why the default install leads to this and how to fix? kernel: [51865.316142] audit: type=1400 audit(1519270782.274:1146): apparmor="DENIED" operation="ptrace" profile="/usr/sbin/libvirtd" pid=733 comm="libvirtd" requested_mask="trace" denied_mask="trace" peer="libvirt-654a2de1-6dbf-458b-ab54-15841da4fe53"
253[04:42:31] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
280[05:13:26] <hanasaki> what's value does firmware free and irqbalance bring?
281[05:13:32] <somiaj> hanasaki: partly mine, I know that apprmor is being tested in buster at the momement, didn't realize it would affect the backports kernel though.
282[05:13:34] <hanasaki> I thought selinux was the standard?
283[05:14:03] <somiaj> debian is only recentally trying to change from no tool to apparmor as default.
284[05:14:13] <hanasaki> somiaj: you are the backport builder?
285[05:14:33] <somiaj> hanasaki: not in debian. Anyways, there are kernel parameters you can use to turn apparmor off, or you can try to figure out how to write policy files for it.
286[05:14:38] <hanasaki> selinux is a pain to config :( RH has it on by default
287[05:14:39] <somiaj> hanasaki: I am not, only a hobbiest
288[05:14:56] <hanasaki> tried kernel 4.15.x?
289[05:15:52] <somiaj> In this case it seems to me it is either an issue with fixing the apparmor rules to meet your needs, or just disable it.
291[05:16:46] <somiaj> apparmor is available in stretch, but is not default. They are testing to make it default in buster, but so far it is only testing, I don't think any decisions has been made if it will be included by default in buster yet or not.
292[05:16:48] <hanasaki> true. however it should work as installed and not block an install of another package from debian
293[05:17:08] <somiaj> hanasaki: and I think the backport kernels which come from buster include this recommended package of apparmor because of that.
294[05:17:22] <hanasaki> built 4.15.x ... fails to boot.. cannot find the boot partition :)
295[05:17:40] <somiaj> hanasaki: well it does need to be tested. You can disable/remove apparmor to go back to how stretch is by 'default'
296[05:18:15] <hanasaki> thanks
297[05:18:32] <hanasaki> the 4.15 issue is diff than appamor
302[05:22:02] <metalbat97> i try to use selenium but have a problem configuring the PATH variable, what the right configuration to do? and here replaced-url
307[05:23:46] <somiaj> does echo $PATH return you something on the outsdie. Are those two lines of code all that you are using in your .py file, and the rest is just output?
441[07:42:29] <sleepingforest> I updated my debian machine (outdated for 2 months) and i cant find out why my iprouting doesnt work anymore. Notable packages that updated are iproute2 and linux-image. Im kinda confused on how to debug this.
442[07:42:37] *** Joins: valerius (~valerius@replaced-ip)
443[07:43:10] <sleepingforest> is there a way i can inspect IPTABLES rules to see where/why its failing?
444[07:43:54] <somiaj> iptables -L will list the rules, or iptables -t nat -L for other tables.
470[08:03:14] <xtore> Why do we no longer hear any news about spectre and meltdown; I thought they were a clear and present danger and hackers were working fulltime to develop exploits around them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
477[08:06:56] <Zyferus> as far as Mainstream seems concerned there were software patches tossed out, and new hardware that you buy 'isn't effected'. So they are lead to believe.
478[08:07:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1500
479[08:07:49] *** Quits: darkhanb (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
484[08:16:22] <Robby> I have an issue where postfix doesn't seem to start and systemctl output is useless (simply states it started, nothing useful) and /var/log/mail.log /var/log/mail.info do not get written to at all, makes it hard to troubleshoot this
485[08:17:42] <Robby> I wanted to start this manually from the shell, to see if I can see more, but /lib/systemd/system/postfix.service contains ExecStart=/bin/true so that doesn't help :P
516[08:40:19] <fightthewalrus> so, today I learned that virtualbox is not completely free, and therefore not included in the default debian repos. I never tried another virtualization solution before, and I'm mostly a n00b in the field. What does debian recommend?
517[08:40:21] *** Quits: aidaho (~aidaho@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
546[08:44:37] <fightthewalrus> ok, maybe I should give it a go before installing virtualbox then. Try new things and stuff
547[08:44:40] <fightthewalrus> thanks guys
548[08:45:12] <alkisg> Many virtualbox drivers are in the process of being mainlined upstream in the kernel, so it's quite better that it used to be
549[08:45:17] <alkisg> *then
550[08:45:18] *** Quits: ToBeCloud (uid51591@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
551[08:45:19] <alkisg> *than, meh
552[08:47:15] <somiaj> fightthewalrus: if you install virt-manager and qemu-kvm, that should pull in the rest. virt-manager is a gui to manage virtual machines with libvirt.
555[08:50:24] <fightthewalrus> somiaj: that sounds like a sweet deal. I'll give it a try. Sounds more unix-like too, having the business and GUI layers provided by different packages and all
556[08:50:35] <fightthewalrus> I will definitely take a look
561[08:53:22] <fightthewalrus> btw, I don't know if here's the best place to report this, but all pages of the debian wiki are showing me a 403 - Forbidden page. Maybe it's just me?
562[08:54:22] <somiaj> are you behind a vpn?
563[08:54:54] <somiaj> I heard mention that some vpns are blocked due to abuse on the wiki. But it works for me.
583[09:07:02] <somiaj> xtore: any paticular info you are looking for? There are a combination of software and firmware fixes avaiable for both meltdown and spectre.
587[09:08:46] <xtore> somiaj, I guess my goal is to go through a crash course in how it all works and then cook up a 5,000 word article with a few cheesy infographs on how it works and how a future app or JS script on a site can pwn the reader's box. And get tons of reblogs of course.
589[09:09:36] <xtore> so the particular info I would be looking for is something easily translatable into layman's terms so the aveage joe can grasp it and choke on their coffee while reading my entry
697[11:01:41] <jelly> does the controller have a separate HBA mode for that?
698[11:01:50] <kale> i do not know
699[11:02:20] <jelly> if you haven't exposed the disks somehow, either by creating arrays, or switching to dumb HBA mode, there won't be any visible for the OS
700[11:02:52] <kale> jelly: ok, thanks, i'll look into that
701[11:02:55] <jelly> I'm assuming you have a hw raid controller in there.
739[11:22:23] <kale> ok, have 4 disks now, thanks, next networking ... i do not have drivers on netinst iso, will i have more drivers on a bigger installation iso?
740[11:22:49] <jelly> you ought to have all the drivers for that old a machine
741[11:23:11] <jelly> unless you put a recent card into the system for some reason or a wifi one
766[11:42:16] <kale> jelly, RoyK and pingfloyd, thank you very much for your help. This hardware is new to me, and boss wants the system up soon, so helped me a lot here.
995[13:01:18] <jelly> those build deps look suspiciously dpkgish
996[13:01:33] <pragomer> when trying to build xfdashboard under stretch I get this when configuring: configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.35 or later.
997[13:01:47] *** Joins: Madda (~Madda@replaced-ip)
1057[13:29:28] <fakefur> hi guys i just got this warning when ssh'ing into my server after an absence of maybe 4 days - i have changed nothing in the meantime
1058[13:29:31] <fakefur> The authenticity of host 'XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX (XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX)' can't be established.
1059[13:29:35] *** Quits: e_xistense (~e_xistens@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1060[13:29:37] <fakefur> what does this actually mean?
1061[13:29:40] <sadtaco> Ah sury's. I think I used this before
1116[13:37:23] <fakefur> i should have figured that out myself
1117[13:37:24] <fakefur> sorry
1118[13:38:26] <deadrom> upgraded deb8 in a VirtualBox to deb9, upgraded vbox tools, now I cannot Xfwd certain programs anymore. thunar works, gwenview works, gThumb for example won't: Gdk-ERROR: "GLXBadContext"
1119[13:38:54] <deadrom> so what's off here, X, gtk3, VBox, my client?
1219[14:30:46] <Iridos> mkdir -p would of course be a possible application, although I'd still hate the outcome and want something that contains the full date on the last level
1277[15:13:20] *** Quits: Riyria (~Riyria@replaced-ip) (Quit: His home wifi router cost more than his car... He is... the most interesting network tech in the world...)
1362[16:17:53] <jhutchins_wk> Network drivers are rarely built into the kernel.
1363[16:18:20] <rant> unless its an embedded system
1364[16:18:23] <jelly> !blacklist
1365[16:18:24] <dpkg> To blacklist a Linux kernel module, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'. IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. replaced-url
1366[16:18:37] <NEOalquimista> My screen suddenly starts to flicker on/off only when on Debian GNOME. I tried switching to another TTY, and the console there flickers too. I need guidance on which package to report the bug for.
1371[16:20:48] <g0zzy> I could possibly put that in grub.cfg?
1372[16:21:13] <NEOalquimista> jhutchins_wk: it doesn't happen on other distros, so it couldn't be because of loose cables on this laptop. I just came from Arch. This issue only starts on Debian. Never elsewhere. I'm sure of it.
1373[16:21:22] *** Quits: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
1381[16:22:45] <rant> NEOalquimista: I'd check dmesg and Xorg.0.log.. but given all the information my best guess would be a compositing manager or something and I dont know what if any GNOME might be using these days
1391[16:27:13] <jelly> NEOalquimista: there are various issues that can cause flickering, some related to power management issues in some (older) versions of drivers. Amusingly a nice resource for workarounds is arch linux wiki
1393[16:28:33] <jelly> NEOalquimista: could be the kernel part of the driver, but it could be somewhere else in the stack (xorg / dri / mesa) that triggers it
1394[16:29:01] <jelly> NEOalquimista: you can try a newer kernel and see if it accidentally fixes it
1395[16:29:05] <jelly> !bdo kernel
1396[16:29:05] <dpkg> Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <stretch-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t stretch-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
1397[16:29:18] <NEOalquimista> okay, i'll take a look
1398[16:29:43] <NEOalquimista> Maybe because it's only on GNOME, it could be something related to it, like its compositing or something..?
1399[16:30:33] <NEOalquimista> Oh, right, i'll see the logs
1400[16:31:32] <jelly> obviously gnome does something that triggers it. Does it continue if you log off gnome and log in something without a default compositor like xfce
1404[16:32:53] *** Quits: Krennic (~enrique@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1405[16:33:06] <NEOalquimista> I haven't tried it. Initially, it only triggered it when I used gnome-terminal. I would open it and type something. At the first keystroke, bang! SCREEN moving out of place, flickering and all hell breaks loose. Now it's worse. Out of nowhere.
1406[16:33:26] <NEOalquimista> but I can't reproduce it reliably
1407[16:33:29] <bitess> i had a problem with a broadwell cpu, where the screen went crazy after waking up from power savings. flickered like a broken movie projector. i removed xserver-xorg-video-intel and installed a newer kernel.
1465[17:06:20] <g0zzy> "blacklist r8712u" is the content of /lib/modprobe.d/onboard-wireless-adapter AND /etc/modprobe.d/onboard-wireless-adapter. The module is still getting loaded. Why?
1472[17:09:31] <greycat> The recent trend of "your files only get processed if they have the right extension" is super annoying, especially when there's no obvious way to find out this rule, or what the magic extension is.
1473[17:09:32] <g0zzy> Ah. So it's been debian-apache-ised? ;)
1474[17:10:32] <greycat> don't even get me STARTED on apache...
1475[17:10:53] <g0zzy> Very Windowsish. The file extension is so important and defining that it's hidden from you by default
1478[17:11:51] <greycat> No, not Windows-ish. Near as I can tell, it's because some idiot left an emacs foo~ backup file in place and it caused a problem, then someone decided "let's exclude *~" which is fine, but then someone else decided "nah, let's only INCLUDE *.conf or *.list or *.squeegee".
1489[17:18:05] <rant> I suppose it'd be sane for such things to log warnings or notices if it finds files in that dir that are not the right extension
1490[17:18:18] <g0zzy> Yes
1491[17:18:37] <greycat> No, because then you get log-spammed by the *.dpkg-orig files which were one of the original reasons for the change.
1492[17:19:01] <pkutzner> greycat: However, apt still complains about files that are named *.conf.* You have to use *.conf.bak to get it to not complain about them.
1493[17:19:37] <pkutzner> If you want to temporarily disable a ppa or the like.
1494[17:20:12] <g0zzy> The mentality is: we'll cater for the moronic by kludge f
1495[17:21:07] <g0zzy> and not cater to traditions/standard practice, breaking software
1515[17:33:41] <AE-35> is there an equivalent to osx "log stream --syslog"?
1516[17:34:59] <metastable> AE-35: Given that this is #debian, not sure if we're expected to know what osx does. What does that command do, and maybe we'll have a better idea.
1517[17:35:11] <AE-35> mac os
1518[17:35:22] *** Quits: damiano (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1519[17:35:26] <AE-35> streams logs to stdout
1520[17:35:26] <metastable> AE-35: I know what osx is. That doesn't help or answer the question.
1521[17:35:40] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1522[17:35:50] <metastable> AE-35: Check out the journalctl command manual.
1530[17:38:39] <jhutchins_wk> I think limiting the extension has the valid function of making a human-readable way to have non-active files in the directory.
1531[17:39:21] <jhutchins_wk> Supposedly linux only cares about the "magic word", but that doesn't apply to text config files.
1532[17:40:10] *** Joins: jazz (~jazz@replaced-ip)
1571[18:02:40] <_0x5eb_> hi, is there any way (even brutal) to shrink a (R/O-)mounted root FS? (context: VPS configured with Debian 9 with 100% HDD taken by /, no other partition nor even swap)
1572[18:03:34] <rant> _0x5eb_: do you NEED another partition that badly?
1573[18:03:37] <greycat> That is not unusual for a VPS. What *kind* of VPS is it, exactly? Some of them cannot use swap, period.
1574[18:03:40] <_0x5eb_> (I was thinking of a custom initramfs with a dropbear service as a last resort)
1579[18:06:28] <_0x5eb_> rant, actually my goal is to inject my own installation through a second root; in such cases I usually use the swap partition that I disable, format as ext4, and use for deploying a temp install but here just a single partition
1581[18:07:33] <jelly> _0x5eb_: no, mount from a different device
1582[18:08:27] <_0x5eb_> jelly, there is just a single HDD with a single partition using 100% of the space, no other device available
1583[18:08:28] <greycat> Not OpenVZ, then. So maybe swap is an option? I don't know.
1584[18:09:23] <jelly> _0x5eb_: you need to fsck -f first, shrink fs, then shrink the block dev, and first two will refuse to work on a mounted fs or spew scary warnings
1585[18:09:23] <_0x5eb_> I was thinking of deploying a debootstrap'd root in a tmpfs and pivot_root on it but it does not seem to be allowed
1586[18:09:57] <jelly> that's a theory but I've never managed to successfully pivot_root to tmpfs and umount the old one
1587[18:10:09] <jelly> tbh I tried twice and a long time ago
1614[18:15:43] <_0x5eb_> I was used to deploy OpenVZ kernels on such kind of VPS (a long, long time ago)
1615[18:16:22] <_0x5eb_> jelly, would you mean some kind of pygrub? ;)
1616[18:16:39] <jelly> possible strategy: install busybox-static or sash or whatever, debootstrap into a separate /new dir, and VERY CAREFULLY move all /* dirs to /old/ and move or copy /new/* to /
1617[18:16:55] <jelly> thus, no fs shrinking
1618[18:17:41] <jelly> all the dynamically linked commands WILL break at "move all /* dirs to /old/" step :-)
1620[18:18:45] <_0x5eb_> well I don't care of keeping anything from the current install but really need separate partitions (actually a single LVM partition)
1621[18:19:35] <jelly> safer to have a separate /boot and then one for LVM PV but yeah
1641[18:25:13] <jelly> _0x5eb_: stupid workaround: remove it from /etc/mtab, if your mtab is a symlink remove it, copy /proc/mounts in its place and then remove it :-)
1662[18:31:23] <jhutchins_wk> I wonder why you're working so hard to do something that's not supported by your Provider. Is it really that good a deal?
1663[18:31:43] <rant> especially when you already seem to have Debian stable installed
1664[18:31:45] <jelly> curses!
1665[18:31:53] <jelly> areyouloco: it's the root fs
1666[18:32:04] <brw> Has anyone seen any major performance impacts yet with these new Spectre/Meltdown patches?
1686[18:37:42] <tw> There's a recovery CD option in the ovh console for handling exactly this kind of problem. You're going about this in a very complex way.
1687[18:37:42] <_0x5eb_> ... and reboot very quickly hoping for the best (I of course already killed all the non strictly essential daemons) ;)
1688[18:38:06] <tw> _0x5eb_: if you booted with `single` nothing should be running besides init and maybe your shell
1696[18:40:49] *** Parts: gridl0ck (~cube@replaced-ip) (""I am indeed amazed when I consider how weak my mind is and how prone to error." --Rene Descartes")
1702[18:41:48] *** Quits: dpl (~dpl@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1703[18:41:51] *** cdown_ is now known as cdown
1704[18:42:29] <_0x5eb_> frostschutz, tw: thanks for the tips on the "rescue mode" (I initially thought it was only booting the OS in single user mode), seems indeed almost too easy, investigating this now
1705[18:42:46] <jelly> <mika> yes <mika> I recommend grml-rescueboot :)
1706[18:42:50] <jelly> says #grml
1707[18:44:12] <jelly> so if you have console access, booting grml (it's a debian based live) with toram option would be a workable way to nuke disk contents and reformat everything to your liking
1708[18:45:00] <_0x5eb_> jelly, hmm great idea too! I keep that in mind & will investigate that
1715[18:49:36] <Urangst> hello. could anyone point/link me somewhere a begginer could start? Im planning to switch from win10 to either debian or fedora but dont know which one yet. Thanks
1720[18:51:16] <jelly> Urangst: live images might be nice to try things out, just keep in mind perfomance will be lower on a live usb than an installation on hdd or ssd
1726[18:53:39] <wigums> another issue imo is fedora is too bleeding edge. bleeding edge tends not to be that great for new users but absolutely try both
1741[19:00:33] *** errrasmus is now known as Erasmus
1742[19:00:37] <jelly> Urangst: is your hw platform a laptop or a machine with wifi or a really new graphic card (say, model less than 2 years old)?
1743[19:00:47] <Urangst> <annadane> i downloaded the version 9 and installed on a VM but the thing is, after i install it i dont really know what to do. last time a spent a little time with linux was on ubuntu and got really frustated because i was struggling to install programs and couldnt use the things i use daily in my win10
1750[19:02:58] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: There are some online databases like equivalent.to that list equivalent programs. Sometimes the process of accomplishing your goal is different in Linux than in Windows.
1751[19:03:07] <wigums> Urangst, you will have that issue with any linux. its gonna take time for you to learn
1752[19:03:07] <Urangst> <jelly> its a lenovo ideapad 310, i5-6200U @ 2.30GHz, bought a Samsumg SSD 850 EVO and use it as the main storage, DDR4 ram, GeForce 920MX
1757[19:04:12] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: There's also the fact that rather than find a program from a third party then download and install it, Debian maintains a library of over 50,000 programs that are packaged for Debian and tested to work with the stable release.
1763[19:04:46] <somiaj> Urangst: part of what makes debian stable great is all the software that debian provides is well tested to work with debian. The drawback is, you should stcik only to software provided in the debian repos, which means finding alternative software and sometimes using older well tested versions of software.
1764[19:04:54] <Urangst> <jhutchins_wk> i tried to install using the terminal, but could get past some things i dont remember now
1765[19:04:56] *** Quits: nezZario (sid125746@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1766[19:04:57] *** Quits: alxy (uid115853@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1773[19:05:36] <Urangst> <somiaj> if there are substitutes to things i can find on win10 im ok with it
1774[19:06:13] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: The important thing is to focus on your goal, not what you think the process or program should be.
1775[19:06:15] <Urangst> what are big downsides from someone coming from windows?
1776[19:06:27] <somiaj> Urangst: depends on what you are willing to use as substitutes, but there are plenty who use debian as their desktop and software that can work. But you won't get everything, there will be things that win10 can do you won't be able to. On the other hand, there are things you can do in linux that win10 can't.
1777[19:06:35] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: You'll need to get used to the command line.
1778[19:07:00] <Urangst> <somiaj> yes, one things that im keen on linux
1779[19:07:01] <somiaj> Urangst: biggest downside is thinking about being an admin to your machine, not jsut being able to click and things 'just work', stuff usually requires a bit of research and sometimes configuration.
1783[19:07:55] <Urangst> <somiaj> thing is, my classes just started and i really need some stuff working and thats my main concern
1784[19:08:09] <jhutchins_wk> "Click and things just work" doesn't happen in Windows unless you're supported by a very competent IT department.
1785[19:08:14] <greycat> What stuff specifically?
1786[19:08:52] <Urangst> ill probably just try to learn on an VM for now and when i get the semester break i can back up my music on the HD im waiting to arrive and i can format and install linux as main OS
1787[19:09:04] <wigums> Urangst, get a live usb OR simply install linux to a usb just as if it were a hard drive or sdd. plug it in and boot from the usb whenever you want and you get to keep your windows on the main drive
1788[19:09:11] <jelly> if you choose to run Debian on hardware instead of a VM you'll probably want to use "unofficial" installation images with firmware
1792[19:09:31] *** Quits: fireant (~fireant@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1793[19:09:39] <jelly> or live images with firmware if trying live
1794[19:09:43] <jelly> !firmware live
1795[19:09:44] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at replaced-url
1796[19:09:49] <Urangst> another thing that im afraid of is making a dual boot so i can have the possibility to have 2 OS installed, i tried before but didnt felt confident about it
1797[19:09:59] <wigums> Urangst, get a live usb OR simply install linux to a usb just as if it were a hard drive or sdd. plug it in and boot from the usb whenever you want and you get to keep your windows on the main drive
1798[19:10:09] <jelly> Urangst: nah, just keep using a VM then
1799[19:10:09] <wigums> so no need to dual boot
1800[19:10:18] <greycat> If you already have the knowledge and infrastructure for the VM option, you can do that.
1801[19:10:22] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: Dual boot has been working almost since Linux released the first kernel, it's very reliable.
1802[19:10:24] <wigums> your best bet is vm
1803[19:10:29] <jelly> I run windows in a VM because dual booting is a pain
1804[19:10:31] <Urangst> <wigums> in a USB doesnt it get sluggish?
1805[19:10:42] <jair> hello all I am seeing a server crashing because of memory usage... replaced-url
1811[19:11:15] <somiaj> Urangst: live systems don't run off the usb, they run off of memeory, so they load from the usb (this makes them run okay even with slower usb read speeds)
1812[19:11:19] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: You're not going to get great performance, but Live images have been optimized to work better with a USB or disc.
1813[19:11:38] <Urangst> <wigums> on a usb is it less painful to run on a VM?
1814[19:11:42] <somiaj> Urangst: dual boot is fine, but many don't actually want to reboot just to testout another os.
1815[19:11:51] <jhutchins_wk> Actually running off of a normal install on a USB is pretty slow and not enjoyable.
1816[19:11:54] <wigums> Urangst, your easiest way to learn will be a vm
1817[19:12:05] <jair> I wonder if I can run something to stop the server from crashing >> screenshot > replaced-url
1829[19:13:33] <somiaj> jair: what makes you think it is memeory problems, I dno't see any issue with your meminfo output, and you aren't even using swap.
1830[19:13:38] <jelly> jair: that was for Urangst, not you
1831[19:13:50] <jair> jelly: Ok sorry
1832[19:14:07] <Urangst> jelly: theres any way i can copy ppl in a easier way?
1833[19:14:16] <Urangst> jelly: theres any way i can copy ppl names in a easier way?
1834[19:14:21] <greycat> most IRC clients will tab-complete a name
1835[19:14:23] <jelly> Urangst: jsut start typing their nick and press TAB
1836[19:14:29] <jair> somiaj: the server is using 12G or ram and keeps growing after approx 19 hours the server crash
1837[19:14:30] <jelly> jel<TAB>
1838[19:14:39] <Urangst> jelly, ah ok didnt tought about that
1839[19:14:43] <jair> somiaj: did you see the htop screenshot?
1840[19:14:48] <somiaj> !free memory
1841[19:14:48] <dpkg> Unlike information, your computer's memory does *not* want to be free. Free RAM is wasted RAM! Linux tries to use free physical memory for caching files from disk which speeds up disk access considerably. Linux releases RAM from these caches if programs need it. If you want to know how much physical memory the free(1) tool says you have left for program use, it's 'free' + 'buffers' + 'cache'. Also ask me about <swapwake>.
1842[19:14:54] <somiaj> jair: using all your memeory is common in linux.
1843[19:14:58] <Urangst> used to names appearing on screen on the phone
1847[19:15:37] <Urangst> somiaj, so which is better USB or VM?
1848[19:15:39] <jair> somiaj: come on! the server crash every 19 hours, there is nothing running on the server other than ip tables is a machine use as router
1849[19:16:00] <jair> jelly: just linux, a few gnu tools ip tables that's it
1850[19:16:05] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: Most IRC clients will auto-complete a name if you hit tab.
1853[19:16:49] <jhutchins_wk> jair: So reboot the server every 18 hours. Problem solved.
1854[19:16:52] <Urangst> jhutchins_wk, yeah, i just forgot that was a thing since i got used to seeing the person name when you type it some android apps
1855[19:16:53] <jelly> jair: what's iscsid there for?
1866[19:18:29] <somiaj> jair: you may want to actually test your memory with memtest86, and see if you actually have bad memory. I would expect the cahced meemory to be higher than in your paste, but your system is not switching to swap, which is another 16gigs of memeory that it is not using. I just wouldn't think a memeory leak or using to much memeory is the culprit causing your system to crash.
1867[19:18:32] <Urangst> jhutchins_wk, theres any way to quote old texts? so i can comment on them?
1868[19:18:54] <jelly> jair: alright then. #ubuntu-server is that way, and I'd advise against running non-LTS versions on servers...
1869[19:19:09] <jair> jelly: thank you!
1870[19:19:10] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: Cut&Paste
1871[19:19:19] <jair> thank you all!
1872[19:19:30] <Urangst> oh, another thing i wanted to know is if theres some website that points you to similar or alternative programs you find on windows
1873[19:20:03] <somiaj> Urangst: probably not a single one, but google can help on a per case basis, 'linux alternative to office' for example might be a good search.
1874[19:21:02] <Urangst> <rant> Urangst: yeah you could try both, but what got me was replaced-url
1875[19:22:11] <Urangst> somiaj, theres any site where you can find some kind of guide to like "things you should when you begin" or something of the sort, just so i dont get lost not knowing what to do
1876[19:22:37] <Urangst> normally i like to mess around with the system right when i get it but i really dont know how to mess with linux to begin with
1877[19:22:43] <somiaj> Urangst: there are lots, but they sometimes get outdated or only cover what that paticular user thought someone would need.
1878[19:23:07] <somiaj> Urangst: vague questions will get vague answers, but if you had a more specific question, what is an alternative to foo, you would get a more specific answer.
1879[19:23:20] <Urangst> somiaj, thats good enough for me, from there i can get ideas to what i want to do/search for
1880[19:23:27] <greycat> On a desktop system, the critical early things are usually "Do I have all the firmware installed that I need", "Does my video card work properly"
1881[19:23:41] <somiaj> I mean to me, most users need a browser, but both firefox and chromium are in debian, and office, which can be done with libreoffice. After that I'm unsure what people would want.
1882[19:23:42] <aispark[m]> Urangst: Arch wiki list of applications page is wonderful
1883[19:23:46] <greycat> On a laptop, add "Does my wireless interface work properly" to that.
1886[19:24:46] <Urangst> greycat, yes, how could i verify if the drivers are working fine? because on my laptop manufacturer driver page theres only win10 drivers, where would i find the drivers?
1887[19:24:58] <Urangst> aispark[m], gonna look for that
1888[19:24:58] <greycat> Oh god, you have a laptop? Ugh...
1889[19:25:06] <greycat> But you said you would be installing in a VM, so that doesn't matter.
1890[19:25:20] <Urangst> greycat, notebook, dont know if theres much difference
1892[19:25:37] <Urangst> greycat, im planning to leave win10
1893[19:25:44] <greycat> If you're installing in a VM, it shouldn't matter, other than possibly installing "guest extensions" or whatever they call that thing.
1894[19:25:58] <greycat> If you're installing natively, use the netinst CD with nonfree firmware included.
1898[19:26:05] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
1899[19:26:30] <Urangst> greycat, my goal is to use linux as main OS
1906[19:28:27] <_0x5eb_> (estimated time to boot in rescue mode: 2mn, the web interface gave up after 30mn, connection to KVM lost, impossible to reboot nor even reinstall the VPS)
1921[19:31:13] <jelly> some vendors are great at hiding complexity
1922[19:31:35] <somiaj> Urangst: almost all drivers are contained inside the linux kernel. In a laptop this most likely means you just need non-free firmware and will have all drivers installed by default. I noticed you had a nvidia card, you can optionally install the nvidia non-free drivers, though the nouveau ones that are included by default will work for most things.
1923[19:31:38] <tw> Most OS control panels. Security and privacy settings in web browsers have a tendancy to go away.
1924[19:31:44] <tw> simpler ;)
1925[19:33:02] <annadane> most things aka probably not kde plasma
1932[19:35:00] <Urangst> another thing i noticed is when youre installing debian you can select different UI (i guess, dont remember the name) i think there are 4, KDE, xfce and the other ones i dont remember. i was wondering where i can find info on those
1933[19:35:05] <greycat> Urangst: if you are installing natively on a laptop, use the nonfree firmware netinst image.
1935[19:35:17] <jelly> Urangst: linux hardware supports lags a year or two behind windows. If you plan to use Linux, the safest option is to investigate linux compatibilty BEFORE buying
1957[19:38:14] <jelly> Urangst: I didn't say "find" but "investigate". This usually includes looking for reviews by people who're running linux on the same hardware. Looking for specific components pci-id and usb-id numbers and googling compatibility of each.
1958[19:38:16] <stoned> jelly: configs are all the same, I just reinstalled OS
2007[19:43:26] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2027[19:45:39] <High> Neither do I actually. I ginroe NICKS, JOINs, PARTS, QUITS, MODES, CLIENT CRAP, CLIENT NOTICES, ejust about evrythign other than chat
2028[19:45:44] <Urangst> aispark[m], theres one thats similar to mine
2029[19:45:45] <High> The only thing I ever see is people chat. That's it.
2030[19:45:55] <High> if anyone wants, I can shre my irssi ignore filters
2032[19:46:53] <Urangst> aispark[m], someone said on reddit "The raid controller isn't detected properly. You have to disable it." and "No, you won't have an issue after that except losing a drive cache for raid that doesn't work."
2046[19:48:28] <Urangst> aispark[m], found another topic of someone trying ubuntu on it and they said is quite fine, just not good to install alongside windows
2061[19:51:06] <apollo13> seriously, when red in a monitoring system means danger you don't want to see that on your desktop
2062[19:51:07] <aispark[m]> Urangst: yeah its OK
2063[19:51:18] <greycat> High: please take it to #debian-offtopic
2064[19:51:18] <High> haha, makes sense.
2065[19:51:43] <aispark[m]> Problem installing with windows would be just showing your Debian partition to windows boot manager
2066[19:52:26] <aispark[m]> You can use bcdedit command in cmd and fix it nothing else I know
2067[19:52:29] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2068[19:52:50] <annadane> Urangst, also you don't even need a full desktop environment if you want; some people use window managers
2069[19:52:59] <annadane> like i3 which is very keyboard driven and productivity focused
2070[19:53:00] <Urangst> aispark[m], ill try to test thing out and get used to the system in the VM and start to prepare the switch. probably will do it in 5-6 months or in the end of the year, or just when i have a good space of time to do it and can have time to setup my things up
2095[19:58:07] <Urangst> aispark[m], yeah, the thing that is keeping me the most is that i have around 60-70GB of music in my main drive and my external HD is full, but i bought a 2TB one but probably will take 2 months to arrive. so i have to wait either way
2098[20:00:09] <Urangst> aispark[m], oh, nice i just found a github page dedicated to linux on my notebook
2099[20:00:15] <annadane> that's a lot of music
2100[20:01:02] <Urangst> annadane, its because i like to keep lossless of my favorite things or the albums i think are really good. but most of the time i use spotify
2101[20:01:17] <jhutchins_wk> Urangst: One thing about Linux: don't go pasting commands you find on line or on IRC without at least having some idea what the command does.
2110[20:01:44] <High> a good mp3 souns exactly the same subjectively to most people on average as does a lossless compression
2111[20:01:44] <dpkg> rumour has it, dont break debian is replaced-url
2112[20:01:59] *** Quits: duracrisis (~kkh@replaced-ip) (Quit: Remember, smarter not harder!)
2113[20:02:27] <High> unless you have a soudn system or amplification that touches higher harmonics and clipping threshold, lossless won't matter.
2114[20:02:42] <jhutchins_wk> One of the biggest problems is that online docs often lack date/version information and old advice never gets cleaned up.
2115[20:02:43] <High> Only on audiphile professiona hardwre can you even tell a differnce, and only when the scale is large.
2116[20:03:09] <greycat> unless they compressed it with a stupidly low bitrate
2117[20:03:13] <High> On regular pc home theater stuff, yo ucant' tell.
2118[20:03:15] <High> unless that, sure.
2119[20:03:25] <Urangst> High, yes, for a daily routine thing when the music is just playing theres nothing much you can notice to justify the space lossless takes. but when youre home really just listening it there can be a huge difference
2134[20:05:53] <High> Given the similr/same bitrate, they sound almost identical. I an't tell a diff. I've only been able to when I take it to concert level
2135[20:05:55] <Urangst> when youre rushing i really dont notice too much. but when its quite quiet you can hear things that got cut off on lossy
2136[20:05:58] <tw> codec comparison is drifting into debian-offtopic territory.
2137[20:06:05] <High> I used to work as sound engineer for a production company
2138[20:06:10] <High> stage sound stuff.
2139[20:06:29] <Urangst> tw: yeah, sorry
2140[20:06:31] <High> unless you have high end audiophile equipment, it's very difficult to tell the diff.
2142[20:07:34] <Urangst> High, i got a pretty nice headphone but that just why i only keep lossless of things i really like to hear, the other stuff i dont care too much so i just use spotify
2146[20:09:16] <Urangst> oh, other thing i remembered that i got stuck on ubuntu when i tried using it was that text editor or something like that. it opened when i was installing a package or something and i had to type some commands, add info, but i tried pressing the keys but nothing workded
2188[20:13:33] <tw> Urangst: If you're having problems with ubuntu, there's #ubuntu, but you can't expect to have the same issues with a 2 years newer OS install, much less one from an entirely different group.
2193[20:14:50] <greycat> Then try the Debian install in a VM and see how it goes.
2194[20:14:51] *** Quits: Sansar (~Sansar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2195[20:14:52] <annadane> everyone has to start somewhere. the important thing is just to be realistic about what you do and don't know
2196[20:14:57] <somiaj> Urangst: no need to worry about things that could happen. Until you actually install debian on your hardware and see what sort of things need to be configured/tweak. You learn by using, not by talking about stuff that may not even be an issue.
2197[20:15:00] <annadane> you don't need to be an overnight expert
2198[20:15:03] <High> vim is pretty dumb sometimes.
2199[20:15:13] <High> I'm on desktop, as most poeple have access to a mouse.
2201[20:15:20] <High> Drag cursor, click place cursor wher eyou want
2202[20:15:23] *** Quits: sh1ro (~sh1ro@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2203[20:15:29] <somiaj> Urangst: the best way is to deal with the issues as you run into them, and here and google can be of great help for specific issues.
2246[20:25:57] <metastable> anoki: Unless it's been updated since I took those exams, it's very distro agnostic in most respects, aside from discussing yum vs. apt.
2247[20:26:08] <metastable> And from the current exam codes, they haven't been updated since I took them.
2263[20:29:59] <anoki> okay sorry ill keep on topic
2264[20:30:07] <Urangst> greycat, Mathisen how do i install that? its using the terminal?
2265[20:30:40] <greycat> !vbox guest
2266[20:30:41] <dpkg> For Debian virtual machines ("guests") running under VirtualBox, install the virtualbox-guest-utils package inside the guest to provide Guest Additions; dependent Linux kernel modules are automatically built using <DKMS>. For Microsoft Windows guests, install the virtualbox-guest-additions-iso package on the host (ask me about <non-free sources>) and see replaced-url
2280[20:32:35] <greycat> Urangst: get to a terminal, get root, and then run "apt-get install virtualbox-guest-dkms linux-headers-$(uname -r)"
2281[20:33:04] <Urangst> where did you get all that info from?
2282[20:33:17] <Mathisen> there was one in here yesterday i belive with same issue, he ended upp installing the guest addition from the virtualbox-guest-iso that virtualbox provides.
2283[20:33:27] <bitess> virtualbox-guest-utils is there
2284[20:33:30] <greycat> From the bot's factoid, from Mathisen's correction of the package name, and from knowing how dkms works in general.
2290[20:33:57] <greycat> bitess: not in stretch apparently
2291[20:34:16] <tw> Urangst: either log in with the root password, use `su` and provide the root password, or use `sudo -i` with your user password (assuming it is configured for sudo)
2292[20:34:29] <bitess> because virtualbox is not in stretch.
2293[20:34:31] <Urangst> ok, ill try. tw
2294[20:34:47] <Urangst> writing su worked
2295[20:35:23] <bitess> it got removed together with virtualbox because it's built from the same source.
2301[20:37:23] <Urangst> how do i do that, greycat?
2302[20:37:29] <jelly> !non-free sources
2303[20:37:29] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
2304[20:37:36] <greycat> run "nano /etc/apt/sources.list" and change the ending of each line from "main" to "main contrib non-free" and then save the file; then run apt-get update
2305[20:38:01] <Urangst> let me see if i can do that
2306[20:38:16] <bitess> if that's stretch you will also need to add stretch-backports
2307[20:38:27] <greycat> not for the -dkms package, he doesn't
2308[20:38:32] <greycat> that's why I changed the factoid
2337[20:43:05] <metastable> rant: Host not running the same version of VirtualBox as the guest? The guest doesn't run VB at all.
2338[20:43:05] <rant> I dont recall now off hand but I vaguely remember looking into it months ago
2339[20:43:07] <Urangst> bitess ctrL+shift+c dont seems to copy
2340[20:43:17] <greycat> dpkg, no, vbox guest is <reply>For Debian VMs (guests) under VirtualBox, install the virtualbox-guest-utils package (from <stretch-backports>) inside the guest to provide Guest Additions; Linux kernel modules are built automatically by <dkms>. For MS Windows guests, install the virtualbox-guest-additions-iso package on the host (see <non-free sources>) and see replaced-url
2346[20:44:06] <Urangst> greycat, how do i save this document?
2347[20:44:16] <greycat> nano puts a menu of control keys on the screen
2348[20:44:17] <metastable> rant: And? That doesn't require that the guest modules match the host's VB version.
2349[20:44:57] <rant> metastable: thats what I was asking.. I've had issues in the past where they didnt work.. I didnt know if that was still the case or not
2350[20:45:37] *** Quits: sh1ro (~sh1ro@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2351[20:45:44] <_0x5eb_> jelly, I managed to shrink my root FS by installing dropbear-initramfs cryptsetup and corrupting the root= argument of the kernel cmdline, dropping me a dropbear shell from initramfs ;)
2352[20:45:45] <rant> just wondering because I'm the one who handled the issue the other day that was mentioned.. where we ultimately used the iso
2358[20:46:53] <greycat> While you were learning nano, I was informed that installing the vbox guest stuff is actually MUCH harder than originally expected.
2359[20:47:09] <greycat> Because for some reason the package was removed from stretch.
2360[20:47:36] <Mathisen> as i said before.. install it from the virtualbox-guest-iso that virtualbox host provides
2361[20:47:41] <Urangst> greycat, what do i do after apt-get update is finished?
2363[20:48:08] <greycat> Mathisen: feel free to take over here; I have no idea what you just said.
2364[20:48:45] <Urangst> i was having problems with 4:3 screen resolution
2365[20:48:50] <Mathisen> insert the guest-addition cd image in your virtualbox host from the " devices " menu in virtualbox
2366[20:48:52] <tempate> Hello. What is the best way to manage virtual machines in debian? I've been using Virtual Box for a long time now but I'm not to satisfied. My RAM use jumps when using it and the PC slows down a lot. Is there a better solution?
2370[20:49:55] <jhutchins_wk> tempate: vbox is pretty good, the nature of what you're doing means there's going to be a load. I've found vbox better than VMWare Player.
2371[20:50:00] <Mathisen> step 3: run the .sh file the virtualbox guest addition iso providies
2393[20:55:02] <Mathisen> ok does " lsblk " show /dev/sr0
2394[20:55:18] <Urangst> Mathisen, but i dont know what do in the step 3 you said
2395[20:55:55] <rant> step 3 depended on success of step 1 :P
2396[20:56:10] <Mathisen> yeah :)
2397[20:56:25] <Mathisen> but " lsblk " should show if it is mounted
2398[20:56:27] <greycat> So... back to trying for the -dkms package from stretch-backports now?
2399[20:56:39] <greycat> not yet, ok
2400[20:57:16] <Mathisen> Urangst, so look at the command output and say what it says to the right of sr0
2401[20:57:35] <Urangst> i did apt-get install virtualbox-guest-dkms ..., what do i do after that?
2402[20:57:41] <rant> the dkms is a better option, I just recommended the iso yesterday or whenever that was because I was concerned about version incompatibilities with the host. but idk if thats still an issue or not
2420[21:02:16] *** Quits: ChunkzZ1 (uid233645@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2421[21:02:41] <Mathisen> yeah run it " ./autorun.sh "
2422[21:02:50] <somiaj> Urangst: you shouldn't need to do that. I would not run that script.
2423[21:03:14] <somiaj> Urangst: dpkg -l | grep linux-headers (do you have the linux headers for your kernel installed), if not install them, apt install linux-headers-amd64
2424[21:03:23] <Urangst> hhow can i see whats inside these things
2438[21:08:33] <Urangst> greycat, how do i close this less? i wrote less --help now i cant exit
2439[21:08:39] <greycat> q
2440[21:08:43] <deadrom> when I ssh -X from 64b ubuntu to a 32b deb9 and run an GL program, it says "cannot find swrast", does it need swrast from the ubuntu or the debian machine?
2449[21:10:51] <rant> deadrom: also, consider xpra for running single programs remotely.. it can work with ssh and allows deatching from the program without terminating among other things
2450[21:11:06] <Mathisen> deadrom, swrast is used for opengl to render in headless
2451[21:11:38] <deadrom> Mathisen, strange, the machine is not headless. has xfce.
2452[21:11:47] <rant> heh
2453[21:12:04] <Urangst> Mathisen, Error constructing proxy for org.gnome.Terminal:/org/gnome/Terminal/Factory0
2456[21:12:54] <Mathisen> Urangst, never seen that error.....
2457[21:13:35] <greycat> Time to try -dkms from stretch-backports yet?
2458[21:13:41] <Urangst> Mathisen, what else can i do?
2459[21:13:49] <tw> deadrom: generally speaking, you cannot use gpu hardware without connecting to the attached display server. There are exceptions to this rule, but it's pretty hard and fast in the most common cases.
2460[21:13:51] <Urangst> greycat, its that for me to try?
2461[21:14:06] <Mathisen> Urangst, please double chekced you dont got any other things "mounted" in the virtualbox host, any other isos for example
2462[21:15:24] <Urangst> Mathisen, in the devices thres only the guest image thing
2463[21:15:56] <Mathisen> Urangst, listen to greycat then. il just go and stand in a dark corner now a feel ashamed
2464[21:16:13] <annadane> another casuality of the grey cat
2465[21:16:21] <Urangst> Mathisen, ohh :(. Thanks for the help
2466[21:16:23] <greycat> I barely know anything about VMs.
2467[21:16:35] <greycat> !stretch-backports
2468[21:16:35] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See replaced-url
2493[21:25:49] <greycat> OK, you'll need to edit your sources.list again, and on the stretch-backports line, change "main" to "main contrib non-free", then apt-get update again
2517[21:34:41] <greycat> Might be a good time for you to learn about man pages, too. "man man" is one possible starting point.
2518[21:34:56] <Urangst> whats that?
2519[21:35:07] <annadane> type in your terminal, "man man"
2520[21:35:11] <annadane> man stands for "manual page"
2521[21:35:50] <greycat> man uses "less" to show the manual pages, which is another reason why it was important for you to learn about how to use less (and how to get out of it)
2522[21:36:05] <Urangst> oh tahnks
2523[21:36:23] <Urangst> i dont haeve much time now, so ill probably leave that for later today or tomorrow
2559[21:54:39] <dpkg> Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: replaced-url
2560[21:56:19] <somiaj> contrapumpkin: might just have to wait until it comes back up. There might be a mailing list with info about the site.
2561[21:57:48] <contrapumpkin> looks like it's qa-debsources@lists.alioth.debian.org, which seems pretty dead
2562[21:58:00] <contrapumpkin> I'll see if I can find out who runs it
2569[22:00:16] <rant> deadrom: usually, when I want it to work.. yeah.. heh
2570[22:01:02] <contrapumpkin> somiaj: ah yeah, not so concerned about losing the content. I just have an automated build process that tries to hit that server and it broke, so I was wondering :)
2571[22:01:05] <contrapumpkin> thanks though
2572[22:01:05] *** Joins: toli (~toli@replaced-ip)
2573[22:01:13] <rant> deadrom: winswitch is a neat lookin app that seems to be an all around all-os kinda app for this kinda stuff, wraps nx, xpra, vnc, etc.. but despite being rather graphical I cant really figure it out.
2576[22:02:55] <deadrom> sorry I cant make this work, I started xpra now in daemon mode and connected from here, does not work, says "connection lost". ill lookk once more at the daemon log...
2579[22:04:28] *** Quits: setham (~setham@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2580[22:04:35] <rant> idk I havent used it extensively, but it does have GUI setup tools as welll the way I've used it is just as I described. I ssh in and xpra start :100 --startchild=program then axpra attach ssh/huser@host:port/:display
2581[22:05:07] <deadrom> startchild s wrong to begin with, does not work
2582[22:05:14] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2583[22:05:33] <rant> --start-child=
2584[22:05:43] <somiaj> contrapumpkin: I would just wait, but if it is down for a while, then might be worth sending an admin a ping.
2586[22:07:24] <rant> deadrom: all I know is this program blew me away.. I was running Windows 7 in Virtualbox on an orange pi lite over a shotty hotspot .. and it was smooth
2587[22:07:33] <deadrom> could not connect to X server on display ':100' after 3 seconds
2591[22:07:59] <rant> deadrom: are you starting one on ":100
2592[22:08:07] <deadrom> usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap: Only console users are allowed to run the X server
2593[22:08:31] <matu> The developpers of the open source are wonderful, i was unable to use my 3440x1440 minotir on my Lenovo X201 (an old laptop that was supposed to be able to support 2560x1440 max)
2594[22:08:40] <greycat> sounds like jessie or earlier...
2595[22:08:48] <matu> i updated my debian and plugged the monitor, and my monotir works completely
2596[22:09:02] <toli> Today I had a strange feeling using Debian, where I was always expecting to do whatever I want with it.
2611[22:12:11] <matu> It still works but it gave me some headaches when i was playing
2612[22:12:21] <matu> but it is ok if you work with the monitor
2613[22:12:22] <toli> A guy was somehow converted his harddrive of 6TB to MBR from Win10, he use to install Win10 on his SSD, where the installation created its boot partition table to the 6TB drive. No way to convert it GPT or what ever. I took the disk connected it to my USB sata interface, and the system only saw 1 partition of 2TB, no way to convert it or do what ever with Debian, fdisk and gparted. I had to use Windows VM to convert the disk to GPT and fix it:)
2614[22:12:28] <toli> strange isnt it
2615[22:12:56] <matu> Iiyama E2403WS
2616[22:13:14] <toli> what is the biggest HDD debian can read out of the box?
2617[22:13:31] <matu> but this is just wonderful i can use it on this screen, if anyone can bring me an information about it would be very appreciated
2618[22:13:40] <JustASlacker> debian is not limiting disc size in any way
2619[22:13:42] <matu> any
2620[22:14:06] <JustASlacker> you run out of money before debian runs out of manageable disks
2621[22:14:09] <matu> did they hack the driver ?
2622[22:14:11] <matu> wtf ?
2623[22:14:18] <toli> JustASlacker, then how do you explain that I wasnt able to identify the partition
2624[22:14:25] <JustASlacker> gremlins
2625[22:14:49] <toli> JustASlacker, love it :)
2626[22:14:52] <deadrom> matu, enjoy your hardware, if you need to know, read the driver src code. it's less mystery than you think.
2629[22:15:39] <deadrom> toli, no limit, but if linux thinks it is MBR not GPT because the disk announces it it will run with what it can calc from the data.
2631[22:16:46] <matu> i did not practice C for a very long time and i did not have the skill at that time
2632[22:17:02] <deadrom> toli, I think win10 uses this weird system partition as a stub and then loads all drivers from there and just ignores what the disks thinks or the uefi or whoever. sounds like classic "we are MS and assume we are all there is" stunt
2633[22:17:10] <matu> but the dev that corrected it is just excellent
2640[22:20:44] <deadrom> matu, X201, so Intel GMA HD 5700MHD, so #intel-gfx will appreciate your praise and might give you the insight
2641[22:20:46] <tw> toli: You could always do it again and dump the MBR, then math-out the partition size (hint, max partition for MBR with 512-byte sectors is 2TB)
2642[22:21:05] <deadrom> it's not like they got *that* lot of that :D
2643[22:21:18] <metastable> That's not how Windows 10 functions at all, but okay.
2644[22:21:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
2645[22:21:19] <JustASlacker> when is the disk heavier
2656[22:23:10] <deadrom> JustASlacker, well, as ordering magnetic patterns means destroying local entrophy which can me calculated into energy, thus into mass we can establish that a full magnetic disk is actually lighter than one on the full state of entropy - unless it was bought as a certified media enterprise disk from the beginning, of course
2657[22:23:19] <metastable> Mathisen: That's only correct for disks with 512-byte sectors.
2672[22:28:46] <metastable> Mathisen: If the disk uses 4k sectors, you can simply make it. In theory, MBR supports 16TiB partitions using 4k sectors. Whether that's supported by your BIOS, etc., is another question entirely.
2673[22:29:32] <Mathisen> metastable, i never heard of this.. or seen it used.. would it not just be easyer to use gpt as intended
2674[22:29:45] <metastable> Mathisen: Oh, definitely. I use GPT regardless of disk size.
2675[22:29:55] <NEOalquimista> bitess: i will do it now. Just for the record, their symptoms are not exactly like mine. But whatever. Breaking is fun.
2676[22:30:06] <Mathisen> metastable, anyway new info for me, thanks for the lesson
2677[22:30:58] <metastable> Mathisen: The underlying reason is that MBR deals with sector allocations, and is limited to 2^32 sectors. If those seconds are 512b in size, you get 2TiB. 4K sectors yields eight times as much.
2688[22:37:26] <Mathisen> that you only seeing 2tb of the 6 that it should ? do i understand it correct ?
2689[22:38:22] *** Quits: Darcidride (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2690[22:40:03] <toli> Mathisen, the disk was converted to MBR from windows. we couldnt convert it from windows back to GPT, as windows installation created the boot part on that disk, so I said OK, bring it on. I plugged it to my debian, and then I saw that disk had only 1 partition, and I cannot convert the MBR to GPT. I had to do this with a Windows machine
2700[22:43:57] <Mathisen> im sure there is ways to convert in linux also without data loss, but i would have done it win also if win had its boot partition on it.. would have used diskparted there and convert gpt
2701[22:44:14] <Mathisen> windows dont play along well with the other kids as we all know
2702[22:44:26] <metastable> Converting a bootable MBR disk to GPT?
2706[22:46:06] <metastable> Mathisen: It gets hairy because there's no post-MBR cap for GRUB on GPT. It would require reducing a partition and moving it over to make room for a BIOS boot parittion.
2718[22:53:06] <Mathisen> im not a computer now with multiple hd.s but if you would have removed the old partition table and created a new one you could have made it gpt and used bigger then 2TB
2719[22:53:27] <toli> hmm
2720[22:53:29] <jhutchins_wk> toli: Microsoft plays fast and loose with standards. It's one of the dangers of NTFS, and I believe they have a new filesystem as of W10.
2723[22:53:54] <jhutchins_wk> toli: I know for a while you couldn't use Linux tools to resize the Windows partitions, you had to use the Windows Disk Manager.
2728[22:54:32] <jhutchins_wk> There's more than one variant.
2729[22:55:10] <Mathisen> jhutchins_wk, version 3.1 to be specific
2730[22:55:16] <Mathisen> and that has been used sense XPP
2731[22:55:18] <Mathisen> XP*
2732[22:55:27] <Mathisen> anyway maybe offtopic in here
2733[22:55:32] <toli> :)
2734[22:55:50] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
2735[22:56:43] <jhutchins_wk> If it were possible to identify the variant reliably we wouldn't have had problems with NTFS drivers. MS obfuscates the differences.
2737[22:57:34] <rflec028> ...are there any reeeally important channels on Freenode that I should join, as a newcomer, for important announcements and junk?
2738[22:57:49] <rflec028> (Sorry, not totally on topic.)
2739[22:57:53] <annadane> debian related? not really
2740[22:58:02] <annadane> there's a few mailing lists
2741[22:58:11] *** Quits: nic_ (~nic@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2742[22:58:43] <annadane> debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org being a good one
2743[22:58:52] <jhutchins_wk> rflec028: The important announcements go to the lists. IRC doesn't reach people who are off-line.
2744[22:59:42] <toli> But on NTFS you can more easily recover formated partitions, and recover the files and folder structures, where on EXT you cant
2759[23:03:11] <annadane> and also email is permanent
2760[23:03:18] <annadane> irc depends on whether you're in the channel
2761[23:03:23] <annadane> and paying attention
2762[23:04:09] <annadane> there's also the point releases but for important security stuff you wouldn't want to just wait until 9.x
2763[23:04:32] <Mathisen> annadane, well there is way to keep track lick notices and highlight can be saved and showed for later if you use a bnc and irccloud works greate on your phone to keep track of channles
2764[23:05:26] <annadane> yeah but... why
2765[23:05:35] <jhutchins_wk> toli: Most digital photos have metadata that a good graphics program can read. It's a lot of work, but you can do it. It could probably be scripted to pull dates or geolocations.
2766[23:06:27] <toli> jhutchins_wk, Yes, I know, I already separated the pictures in folders by year
2767[23:06:41] <toli> but 30% have no meta
2768[23:07:14] *** Quits: Saar (~Saar@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2790[23:29:18] <Mathisen> more like a file backup. it compress the files and encrypts them, ofc it is incremental so it dont copy files that has not been changed or added
2791[23:33:33] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2792[23:33:57] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)