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• 38[00:18:15] <Razva> any idea what kernel does the *installer* have? it seems that I need the exact version.
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• 40[00:19:17] <petn-randall> ,kernels
• 41[00:19:18] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.14.0-trunk-686-pae (4.14-1~exp1); sid: 4.14.0-1-686-pae (4.14.2-1); buster: 4.13.0-1-686 (4.13.13-1); stretch-backports: 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.13.13-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-4-686 (4.9.65-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686 (4.9.51-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.51-2); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
• 42[00:19:19] <judd> (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.96-1)
• 43[00:19:27] <petn-randall> Razva: I'd assume the one above. ^^^
• 44[00:20:11] <Razva> petn-randall: which one? 3.16?
• 45[00:21:05] <Razva> sorry, 4.14?
• 46[00:22:04] <Razva> ok understood, sorry for the missunderstanding :)
• 47[00:22:19] <Razva> so stretch stable uses 4.9 while backports uses 4.13
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• 49[00:23:13] <Razva> petn-randall: again, I'm talking about the *installer*, not about the distro.
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• 53[00:24:58] <g0zzy> Is it just me or does this not look very anti-aliased? (Extracted from firefox in Stretch) replaced-url
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• 59[00:26:29] <petn-randall> Razva: The installer uses the same kernel as the release.
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• 62[00:27:00] <Razva> petn-randall: agreed, but in this case can I - ehm - download a "backports ISO"?
• 63[00:27:12] <Razva> my target is to use an installer that has 4.11+ kernel
• 64[00:27:18] <petn-randall> Razva: unfortunately there is no such thing.
• 65[00:27:34] <petn-randall> Razva: Have you tried the testing installer we recommended to you earlier today?
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• 67[00:27:49] <Razva> yeah, works but it's kinda buggy :\
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• 70[00:28:39] <Razva> (which is expected for an alpha OS)
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• 72[00:28:57] <Arahael> Hey guys, I was asking earlier about trying to run xrdp in debian under docker. Turns out, the "under docker" is a hugely significant part.
• 73[00:29:44] <Arahael> Docker doesn't run systemd, so what I had to realise was that many things (especially login services, desktop environments, PAM, etc), often hook into systemd in some way or another.
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• 75[00:30:05] <Arahael> Which causes complications on docker.
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• 80[00:31:12] <somiaj> Arahael: maybe the systemd-shim package?
• 81[00:31:34] <petn-randall> Razva: Can you use to install stable, though?
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• 83[00:31:55] <petn-randall> *use it
• 84[00:31:57] <somiaj> Arahael: though seems strange you want a full x enviorment in a docker image. Maybe what you are trying to do would be better done with an actual vm.
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• 86[00:32:04] <Razva> I'll give it a second shot
• 87[00:32:11] <Razva> brb hopefully
• 88[00:32:39] <somiaj> the testing installer? Or the testing netboot installer? I don't think the installer can install different versions, but the netboot might?
• 89[00:32:49] <petn-randall> Razva: There used to be backports images in the past by a single DD, but he's unfortunately not providing them since wheezy.
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• 93[00:33:34] <somiaj> petn-randall: do you have a link to using the testing netinstaller for stable, or were you mentioning the netboot image?
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• 95[00:34:34] <somiaj> Razva: another option is debootstrap from a live image with a recent kernel, then install the bpo kernel when making the debootstrap isntall bootable.
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• 98[00:35:31] <somiaj> rhizome: look at the very top line of dpkg -l, it also lists what those mean.
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• 101[00:36:05] <petn-randall> somiaj: I wasn't sure, but I faintly remember that you could use the testing installer to also install stable. Might have been the netboot image, yes.
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• 103[00:37:07] <somiaj> the netboot image if I recall lets you choose what release to install since it has to download everything, but other images I don't think do. I could be mistaken on this though.
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• 105[00:37:54] <petn-randall> Razva: As somiaj said, try the testing netboot installer. It might have the option to install stretch.
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• 110[00:40:52] <Razva> That would be Buster, right?
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• 113[00:41:32] <petn-randall> Razva: yes, buster currently is testing.
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• 115[00:41:58] <Razva> Fingers crossed
• 116[00:43:36] <Razva> Why on Earth a billion dollars company would refuse to offer drivers to the open source community? Just...why...?
• 117[00:43:58] <Arahael> somiaj: Indeed. I had an ulterior motive though: Gain familiarity with docker as I use that a lot at work.
• 118[00:44:13] <Arahael> somiaj: systemd-shim, that's an interesting option, I should look at that.
• 119[00:44:19] <somiaj> Razva: inteluctral properity, or just no desire to support it.
• 120[00:44:20] <Razva> Would Apple fail or loose money if people would just be able to try Linux on their hardware?
• 121[00:44:35] <Razva> They are just asses...
• 122[00:45:04] <Arahael> Razva: Potentially. A massive advantage for Apple is the ability to control their entire stack.
• 123[00:45:12] <somiaj> Razva: one does have to think about their hardware choices more detailed if wanting to use linux unfourntally, and you learn what hardware to avoid. I even avoid some companies who make linux drivers, like realtek
• 124[00:45:45] <Arahael> Razva: It would also require far greater collaboration w.r.t. things like power management and the SMC, which is very very different on apple hardware.
• 125[00:46:16] *** Joins: Evol (~Cof@replaced-ip)
• 126[00:46:36] <Razva> Yeah but unfortunately Linux on mobile = Android = a huge pile of privacy issues, instability etc. RIP Blackberry.
• 127[00:47:02] *** Quits: Fusl (fusl@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 128[00:47:10] <xuxx_> what are the best debian theme :?
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• 130[00:47:30] <petn-randall> Razva: You _can_ run your Android phone mostly Google free.
• 131[00:47:32] <somiaj> xuxx_: personal preference, espically since a theme will be tied to the desktop or wm you choose to use.
• 132[00:47:34] <petn-randall> !best
• 133[00:47:35] <dpkg> Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!
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• 138[00:47:58] <somiaj> and debian not only provides 5+ desktops, it provides 10+ window managers, and no theme spans them all.
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• 141[00:48:56] <Razva> petn-randall: yeah, struggled with Android from "v0" till last year. Very disappointed.
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• 144[00:50:35] <petn-randall> Razva: I'm running a smartphone that doesn't have the proprietary Google bits installed. Only thing I missed is the Google playstore. But for that Debian ships gplaycli :).
• 145[00:51:15] <somiaj> and this is going off topic, but there are plenty of open andriod images that are of good quality, problem is most companies don't make it easy to install them...
• 146[00:51:42] <petn-randall> somiaj: Was trying to spin it back ontopic with gplaycli ;)
• 147[00:52:27] <fearf> hello / bonjour/soir !
• 148[00:53:52] <Razva> OMG this is killing me. The NVME is finally detected with Buster, but brcmfmac is not. Tried to manually select it, no luck.
• 149[00:54:33] <somiaj> Razva: is brcmfmac network? could it just be missing non-free firmware?
• 150[00:55:11] <Razva> somiaj: yeah it's non-free. Any Buster non-free available?
• 151[00:55:20] <somiaj> nope
• 152[00:55:33] <somiaj> live image + debootstrap might be the way to go
• 153[00:55:38] * Razva is pulling his hair
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• 157[00:56:08] <Razva> Can I install the driver from USB after installation?
• 158[00:56:18] <Razva> Because USB seems to be working
• 159[00:56:57] <somiaj> problem is with netboot to install stable you need the network
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• 161[00:57:10] <somiaj> I think you can supply firmware on another usb drive and use firmware during the install
• 162[00:57:24] <somiaj> Razva: if you have a wired connection you can install over, then yes
• 163[00:57:33] <petn-randall> !firmware installer
• 164[00:57:33] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See replaced-url
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• 166[00:57:41] <petn-randall> Does buster have firmware installers?
• 167[00:57:58] <somiaj> I don't think they make the firmware installers until after the release
• 168[00:58:08] <somiaj> and I don't think I've seen a firmware netboot installer
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• 170[00:58:40] <somiaj> but you can supply firmware to the installer during the setup, though it is kinda finky, and seems to work best if installing from a cd, and the firmware is on usb.
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• 172[00:58:50] <Razva> somiaj: no wired, it's a darn MBP...
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• 174[00:59:21] <Razva> Ehm, just USB, type-c, so no CD
• 175[00:59:54] <somiaj> it might work with a second usb, or mabey using syslinux
• 176[00:59:57] <Razva> Really no way of putting the driver on the USB stick, even on another second one?
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• 179[01:00:33] <somiaj> Razva: the isntall guide says how to deal with it, I just know it is finiky and I've seen people in here have trouble getting it to work right. Though you can always hit alt-f2 and manually copy the firmware over and reload the network module.
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• 184[01:00:54] <somiaj> it is possible, I just know the automatic detection of firmware by the installer is a bit picky, and I've seen various users have trouble with it (I've never done it)
• 185[01:01:56] <petn-randall> Surely someone must have ran into the same problems and documented it?
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• 189[01:02:16] <somiaj> Razva: If it was me, I would use deboot strap from a live image that you could boot from. But this is because this is what I know best.
• 190[01:02:33] <somiaj> you could check the install guide, it gives both info on loading firmware from the debian installer, and how to setup a 'flexiable usb' using syslinux.
• 191[01:02:44] <somiaj> I just think you'll have trobule finding someone who can just say, do this it will work.
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• 193[01:03:23] <raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day
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• 195[01:04:03] <Razva> Yeah. So, as a conclusion for tonight (being 2am) is that tomorrow I'll just go with Arch and call it a day 'till Debian gets a fresh coat of paint. :/
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• 199[01:06:48] <Razva> OR I get a USB hub and install Debian on a stick. Which is doable and would spare me the pain of reconfiguring GRUB each time Apple pushes a EFI bootloader update...
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• 213[01:11:58] <Razva> As a last try, can you please take a look here replaced-url
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• 215[01:12:15] <Razva> At "Booting" section
• 216[01:12:24] <zomaar> Is there an instant command to read the documenation of a package by zcatting README.Debian.gz or similar?
• 217[01:12:41] <petn-randall> zomaar: No, but you can use tab complete.
• 218[01:12:51] <Razva> Tried to add intremap=nosid, had no positive result
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• 220[01:12:52] <petn-randall> zomaar: Or make yourself a shell alias.
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• 222[01:13:49] <zomaar> that would be a function then, the package name will end up somewhere in the middle
• 223[01:14:09] <zomaar> I was just curious if I was not missing something :p.
• 224[01:14:32] <zomaar> That would lower the barrier to reading something though.
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• 268[01:42:59] <sparrow1> what do you guys think of installing firmware-iwlwifi, from a privacy perspective?
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• 270[01:43:45] <dvs> I don't care, as long as it works.
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• 275[01:48:32] <epsilon> is there any ac wifi working without binary blob?
• 276[01:48:47] <bazhang> ac?
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• 284[01:54:43] <somiaj> epsilon: there are some wifi chipsets that don't require additional non-free firmware, but my understanding is the non-free firmware is on the chipset, and not provided as a seperate file.
• 285[01:55:14] <somiaj> I don't know of any fully open wifi chipsets, and I think this may partly be due to some laws about wireless communciation (fcc in the usa)
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• 300[02:05:46] <ikus060> I'm running debian stretch, and I have problem to figureout what is wrong with python-gst package. In Jessie and wheezy, a file named pygst.py was provided. But not anymore in stretch. Is is a regression ?
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• 308[02:10:48] <themill> there isn't a python-gst package at all btw
• 309[02:10:57] <Iridos> I have python-gst0.10: /usr/share/pyshared/pygst.py
• 310[02:12:07] <Iridos> oh, that's still from jessie
• 311[02:12:11] <Iridos> you're right
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• 314[02:13:31] <Iridos> meh, it was the jessie machine. I better sleep. gn
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• 324[02:20:06] <themill> ikus060: there are considerable changes between the 0.1 and 1.0 APIs for gst; I assume that also changes the python API significantly.
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• 335[02:25:06] <Nirvash> Any tips for getting a system to connect to Wi-Fi when wpa_supplicant is correct, and networking has been restarted, but it still refuses?
• 336[02:25:36] <ikus060> themill: really, sad, my app is not working anymore
• 337[02:26:30] <uupz> anyone familiar with nmap here?
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• 339[02:27:27] <ikus060> uupz: depends what u r looking for
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• 343[02:28:24] <xuxx> hey I have a problem, I'm trying to install sudo on deb 9.3 but it asked me : 'Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20171209-12:11' in the drive '/media/cdrom/' and press [Enter]' but I have a usbnot a dvd
• 344[02:30:25] <ikus060> xuxx: you need to edit your /etc/apt/.. files to remoce any reference to cdrom
• 345[02:30:49] <themill> ikus060: istr that the 0.1 API was deprecated 4 or 5 years ago
• 346[02:31:44] <uupz> ikus060: In my security class we are learning how to use nmap...we have sandbox machines setup that run win 8 and win 10 with just the regular windows detector/defender on...all the ports scanner that are popular (1000 ports) are filtered...i've traided multiple scans that supposedly evade the IDS. maimon, xmas, fin, fragmented packets, syn...are there any other ways to get around this?
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• 348[02:32:18] <xuxx> ikus060: how i do that
• 349[02:33:13] <klys> xuxx, do you have root? is this chicken and egg?
• 350[02:33:17] <ikus060> xuxx: well it's a very basic question, use a text editor and open the file /etc/apt/sources.list, comment line that make reference to cdrom
• 351[02:33:22] <xuxx> ikus060: Yes i have
• 352[02:34:58] <xuxx> its ok
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• 354[02:35:12] <xuxx> ty ikus060
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• 364[02:47:21] <mirko> when using dropbear-initramfs the defined interface is configured *after* the crypto setup is completed, which renders my scenario - unlocking the crypto setup via SSH - useless
• 365[02:48:11] <mirko> when continuing after unlocking the crypt setup the interface gets up and configured - *before* leaving the initramfs (checked via init=/bin/sh)
• 366[02:48:27] <mirko> so the order appears to be wrong - how would i change that?
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• 372[02:51:21] <mirko> correction: the interface tries to get configured, however it's just not *there* (required modules are loaded though)
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• 436[03:37:37] <Nirvash> Update: I had assigned a static IP in dhcpcd.conf that needed to be removed.
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• 440[03:38:43] <clab> ji
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• 499[04:15:44] <zRecursive> so quiet here
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• 503[04:19:48] <dvs> no problems!
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• 508[04:25:44] <zRecursive> I still cannot make debian9, being guest of VBox, produce any sound ?
• 509[04:26:24] <RoyK> is that why it's so quiet in here?
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• 516[04:30:39] <zRecursive> hope some guys can supply help
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• 528[04:43:02] <RoyK> zRecursive: haven't used vbox for years, so I'm sorry
• 529[04:43:22] <RoyK> zRecursive: perhaps ask the vbox ppl?
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• 565[05:10:18] <xuxx> do you guys use debian theme ?
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• 633[06:01:12] <dhaller> isn't there by default no password for postgresql on debian
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• 636[06:02:36] <xuxx> hi, I installed a theme on debian 9 xfce but I haven't the same result as the pic of the theme
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• 642[06:06:02] <zRecursive> xuxx: have you applied the newly installed theme ?
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• 644[06:07:19] <xuxx> zRecursive: yes i think
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• 648[06:08:07] <zRecursive> then it should work
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• 650[06:09:03] <xuxx> zRecursive: Maybe it's not i use xfce
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• 667[06:30:51] <jelly> dhaller: correct, if you become user postgres, you can access and admin postgresql without a password
• 668[06:31:59] <dhaller> i have a jdbc url like jdbc:postgresql://localhost:5432/postgres?user=postgres&password=
• 669[06:32:05] <dhaller> why doesn't that work
• 670[06:32:22] <dhaller> well it does
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• 672[06:32:42] <dhaller> sort of, i mean then i get prompted for a database user
• 673[06:32:47] <dhaller> so i entered postgres
• 674[06:32:51] <dhaller> and then asked for password
• 675[06:32:54] <qman__> you cannot log in when a password is not set
• 676[06:33:04] <dhaller> i leave it blank, and i get FATAL
• 677[06:33:07] <dhaller> really?
• 678[06:33:36] <jelly> dhaller: you'll have to set up a password for that, unless your java is running as user postgres locally
• 679[06:33:41] <dhaller> how is it possible that i log in with psql if i am the user postgres
• 680[06:33:55] <dhaller> can you explain why
• 681[06:34:08] <dhaller> if i am connecting via tcp
• 682[06:34:11] <dhaller> and a url
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• 684[06:35:24] <jelly> dhaller: local psql does not connect via tcp, it connects to unix domain socket
• 685[06:35:33] <jelly> connect(4, {sa_family=AF_LOCAL, sun_path="/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"}, 110) = 0
• 686[06:35:42] <dhaller> well i can connect via tcp with jdbc
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• 688[06:36:15] <jelly> you won't be able to authenticate that way
• 689[06:36:23] <dhaller> i can connect via either protocol
• 690[06:36:25] <dhaller> it
• 691[06:36:27] <dhaller> *
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• 693[06:37:21] <jelly> well, what do you mean by "connect"?
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• 695[06:37:29] <dhaller> but I am using this application called Flyway, when i feed it my jdbc url and run migrate, it prompts me for "Database user: "
• 696[06:37:58] <dhaller> launch postgres
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• 700[06:43:21] <jelly> presumably you want to connect to some other db, not the one alled "postgres"?
• 701[06:45:18] <jelly> I don't know a mechanism to allow no-password connections via tcp
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• 703[06:49:06] <dhaller> i just want to connect to postgresql
• 704[06:49:16] <dhaller> yes to postgres
• 705[06:49:26] <dhaller> i mean i edited pg_hba.conf
• 706[06:49:32] <dhaller> with trust on all lines
• 707[06:49:39] <dhaller> i still can't connect via tcp
• 708[06:50:13] <dhaller> wait i forgot to restart psql
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• 710[06:51:17] <dhaller> kewl
• 711[06:51:19] <dhaller> it works
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• 742[07:13:05] <darxmurf> morning'
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• 773[07:29:47] <rawruw> Razva: hi jelly. are you tehre?
• 774[07:29:52] <rawruw> hi darxmurf, I am here.
• 775[07:30:12] <rawruw> how are you zRecursive? R u recursive 2 day?
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• 788[07:44:01] <zRecursive> rawruw: nope
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• 791[07:45:31] <somiaj> rawruw: this is a support channel, if you have an support question, ask the channel.
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• 794[07:48:37] <rawruw> somiaj: how do I use bash to recurse zRecursive recursively? He's not recursive.
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• 797[07:49:53] <rawruw> somiaj: b != mad@me
• 798[07:50:20] <somiaj> use #debian-offtopic if you want a social channel
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• 803[07:53:54] * jelly not sure if highlighted accidentally
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• 819[08:04:18] <lnxguy> howdy
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• 825[08:05:44] <lnxguy> anyone home?
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• 828[08:07:25] <zhangj> @inxguy yes
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• 840[08:12:28] <lnxguy> I am back...
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• 865[08:28:52] <rawruw> somiaj: can you join #debian-offtopic?
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• 867[08:29:15] <rawruw> wanna talk 'bout fish
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• 873[08:31:47] <ChrisAbela> Does anybody know what this means: There is 1 newly obsolete package: ttf-mscorefonts-installer ?
• 874[08:33:03] <ChrisAbela> Does anybody know how to update it if it is obsolete?
• 875[08:33:23] <rawruw> ChrisAbela: that the package will be unsupported in the future I think. Whatever is depending on it will probably not be dependent on it in the future.
• 876[08:33:47] <ChrisAbela> This is an onlyoffice document server
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• 878[08:34:01] <ChrisAbela> It's a 3rd party application
• 879[08:34:04] <rawruw> so your package manager will probably uninstall that package once it isn't needed anymore
• 880[08:34:34] <rawruw> ChrisAbela: I wouldn't worry about it.
• 881[08:34:37] <ChrisAbela> Will aptitude update && aptitude upgrade suffice?
• 882[08:34:57] <rawruw> it should in the long run.
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• 884[08:35:06] <rawruw> ChrisAbela: there isn't much to worry about.
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• 886[08:35:15] <ChrisAbela> OK
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• 912[08:48:40] <mitchel> hello guys
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• 914[08:49:04] <mitchel> at the moment im on school, i installed debian for virtual machines. for some reason i cant connect to its wifi which is PEAP/MSCHAPv2 protected
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• 920[08:53:34] <klys> mitchel, have you read this $ man wpa_supplicant
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• 922[08:54:35] <towo^work> what is "debian for virtual machines"?
• 923[08:55:00] <somiaj> ChrisAbela: obslete package means the package is on your system but no longer available in yoru current repos, sources.list
• 924[08:55:11] <somiaj> ,v ttf-mscorefonts-installer
• 925[08:55:12] <judd> Package: ttf-mscorefonts-installer on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 3.4+nmu1; buster/contrib: 3.6; jessie/contrib: 3.6; sid/contrib: 3.6; stretch/contrib: 3.6
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• 928[08:55:28] <somiaj> ChrisAbela: it could be you just have removed contrib from your soruces.list
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• 930[08:56:06] <somiaj> ChrisAbela: if you share teh output of apt-cache policy, this may help.
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• 960[09:15:49] <jelly> ChrisAbela: it means the package does not exist any more in the debian release you have installed (more precisely, it's not available from any configured repo). Since it was just an download script for a couple microsoft fonts, no further updates don't take anything away
• 961[09:16:19] * jelly slow
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• 963[09:17:49] <pingfloyd> installing the msfonts has a way of making your environment ugly
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• 981[09:26:13] <burt66> i get this error when i update the from french mirror
• 982[09:26:15] <burt66> W: replaced-url
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• 987[09:29:45] <jelly> burt66: that's weird, show the permissions on that file and the directory, ls -ld /etc/apt/trusted.gpg /etc/apt
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• 1063[10:11:50] <bensons> hey guys, installed the latest kernel update and now half of my environment doesnt boot anymore
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• 1065[10:12:14] <bensons> kernel panic at a pretty early stage in the boot process, anyone with an idea what to do beside rolling back the kernel?
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• 1139[10:49:19] <theor> whois GeraldW
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• 1144[10:50:55] <somiaj> bensons: is this on debian jessie?
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• 1146[10:51:10] <bensons> somiaj: exactly
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• 1148[10:51:17] <bensons> sorry forgot to mention the release
• 1149[10:51:49] <somiaj> bensons: check the BTS for the 3.16 kernel, you are not the only one having kernel panics from this new kernel.
• 1150[10:52:13] <somiaj> there is a bug report on this, I would follow that. You can downgrade your kernel in the mean time.
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• 1154[10:53:01] <Kyoshiro> hi, I upgraded my mail server to Debian Stretch, and now Dovecot does not log anymore to syslog as he used to
• 1155[10:53:25] <Kyoshiro> is there something catching the logs, like systemd-journald maybe ?
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• 1157[10:53:59] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: upgraded from jessie?
• 1158[10:54:08] <Kyoshiro> yes
• 1159[10:54:19] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: you can use journalctl to see logs for different serices.
• 1160[10:54:29] <Kyoshiro> yeah I tried but there's nothing there
• 1161[10:54:41] <Kyoshiro> if I setup dovecot to log to a file there are plenty of entries
• 1162[10:54:42] <somiaj> you can also look at systemctl status service name for output from the service too
• 1163[10:54:50] <Kyoshiro> yeah did it too
• 1164[10:54:55] <Kyoshiro> I just get the starting message
• 1165[10:55:10] <somiaj> Are you able to set the log file for dovecot to get old behavior back?
• 1166[10:55:10] <pufferfish> what is the difference between debian and gentoo?
• 1167[10:55:15] <bensons> somiaj: yes, unfortunately our staging system uses unattended upgrade hence 15 boxes are now down :(
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• 1169[10:55:32] <bensons> thats kind of a work to do now... how can something like that pass any qa gate?
• 1170[10:55:32] <Kyoshiro> somiaj, the old behavior ?
• 1171[10:55:34] <somiaj> bensons: time to put the kernel package on hold then.
• 1172[10:55:52] <Kyoshiro> I can setup filename to log to, but before I upgraded from jessie to stretch, it did log to syslog
• 1173[10:56:04] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: I mean you said if you setup dovecot to log there are plenty of enteries. Can y ou just setup dovecot to log like you want.
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• 1175[10:56:34] <Kyoshiro> yeah but if I set it up to log to syslog, it seems to log nowhere
• 1176[10:56:59] <somiaj> bensons: I'm unsure on what the bug is and what systems it affects. It could be specific hardware setups. testing cannot test every hardware setup. I agree this is annoying and it is unlike debian to have issues like this in its stable release, but I don't know the details of what went wrong.
• 1177[10:57:02] <Kyoshiro> also, it might be related, I had to replace syslog-ng by rsyslog because syslog-ng was receiving nothing
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• 1180[10:57:45] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: I can only give basic advise and it seems you have done my suggestions. I'm unsure on the details of how dovecot logs its enteries.
• 1181[10:57:56] <Kyoshiro> and I had to explicitly ask postfix to log to syslog, or it did not log anything either
• 1182[10:58:09] <somiaj> pufferfish: very large difference, one big one is debian is a binary distribution while gentoo a source one.
• 1183[10:58:10] <Kyoshiro> ok I'll ask dovecot team then, thanks :)
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• 1185[10:58:32] <pufferfish> somiaj: so you can't get the source for debian?
• 1186[10:58:38] <pufferfish> i thought you could for any linux
• 1187[10:58:46] <klys> you can, I'll show you
• 1188[10:59:27] <somiaj> bensons: I can help hunt down the bug if you like, but that would be the place to try to track down what went wrong with this kernel upgrade.
• 1189[10:59:34] <klys> replaced-url
• 1190[10:59:39] <pufferfish> cool
• 1191[10:59:49] <pufferfish> so then how is it not a source distro?
• 1192[11:00:04] <somiaj> pufferfish: you can, but debian provides binary packages, while gentoo source packages.
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• 1195[11:00:42] <somiaj> pufferfish: you can even get it from apt, with a deb-src line you can do 'apt source packagename', but this only downloads the source code, it won't install it. gentoo will download source code, then build the source code to install it.
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• 1199[11:01:12] <babyflakes> gentoo does not even provide source packages, it just gives you an ebuild, you yourself fetch the source
• 1200[11:01:12] <pufferfish> somiaj: so essentially gentoo is inefficient as fuck?
• 1201[11:01:20] <somiaj> pufferfish: its not a source distro as the sfotawre is already precomipled and one just downloads the binaries. The source is there if someone wants it but it is not needed.
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• 1203[11:02:02] <pufferfish> won't it take like forever to compile an OS on an old CPU?
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• 1205[11:02:26] <somiaj> pufferfish: well this is not the place to discuss gentoo, but there are differences. Sure it takes long to install stuff, but one gains 'more efficent binaries'. There are also other advatnages to building all source on the machine instead of downloading a prebuilt binary. But you should ask a gentoo channel about that if you are intrested.
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• 1208[11:02:52] <pufferfish> somiaj: good idea. i was just asking about differences
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• 1210[11:03:01] <somiaj> pufferfish: correct, it is a give/take situation. There are advantanges to building everything from source on your machine, there are also disavatnages, as you said it is slow.
• 1211[11:03:03] <pufferfish> besides i already got banned from the gentoo channel
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• 1214[11:03:24] <pufferfish> they are pussies and can eat my dick. fuck them.
• 1215[11:03:27] <somiaj> pufferfish: correct, giving you basic differences is okay, but going into detail about how gentoo does stuff is not. Try ##linux for a more gerenal
• 1216[11:03:29] *** Joins: BWMerlin (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1217[11:03:39] <somiaj> pufferfish: you will get banned here if you keep up using languange like that.
• 1218[11:03:57] <pufferfish> somiaj: i evade all bans, mother fucker
• 1219[11:04:00] <pufferfish> lol just fuckin with u
• 1220[11:04:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o somiaj
• 1221[11:04:02] *** somiaj sets mode: +b *!*@199.116.114.108
• 1222[11:04:02] *** pufferfish was kicked by somiaj (you should know better)
• 1223[11:04:02] *** somiaj sets mode: -o somiaj
• 1224[11:04:03] <bensons> somiaj: well, difficult.. replaced-url
• 1225[11:04:18] <bensons> think we will first need to revive all the boxes or at least most of them..
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• 1228[11:04:36] <bensons> development is very sad :D
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• 1230[11:05:39] <somiaj> bensons: this amd64 system?
• 1231[11:06:20] <bensons> somiaj: yes it is
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• 1234[11:07:37] <numbdewd> aloha neckbeards.. I've a VPS-server (Debian-based distro) where I've come to run out of space.. I've rm -f'd /var/log/*.* as well as the .deb-files in /var/cache/apt/archives/ but still short on space.. any ideas how I can find ways to get to a more sane level of available space again; what to remove and eventually how I'd do that.. I'm a n00b to nix in general mind you. Thks in advance 'newa
• 1235[11:07:43] <numbdewd> ..for any input..! ^_-
• 1236[11:07:43] <somiaj> ,kernels
• 1237[11:07:44] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.14.0-trunk-686-pae (4.14-1~exp1); sid: 4.14.0-1-686-pae (4.14.2-1); buster: 4.13.0-1-686 (4.13.13-1); stretch-backports: 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.13.13-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-4-686 (4.9.65-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686 (4.9.51-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.51-2); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
• 1238[11:07:45] <judd> (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.96-2)
• 1239[11:07:52] <numbdewd> (" "E: Failed to fetch <repo-url> Error writing to output file - write (28: No space left on device) Error writing to file - write (28: No space left on device) ..." -- when doing "apt get update" for example right now, it's becoming a problem as such^)
• 1240[11:07:58] <somiaj> bensons: replaced-url
• 1241[11:07:59] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1242[11:08:07] *** Joins: mylinux (~mylinux@replaced-ip)
• 1243[11:08:20] <somiaj> numbdewd: first, this is not a place to get support for debian-based, we only support debian here. Also many may not want to be called 'neckbeards'
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• 1246[11:10:30] <somiaj> bensons: seems to be an issue with 2-socket cpus (not quite sure what this means), but one suggested work around I see is boot with 'maxcpus=1'
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• 1249[11:12:20] <numbdewd> somiaj: sorry. neway let's assume it's a clean Deb8 just with an overly eager newb having been too greedy and curious on the available packages and likely installed excessively many and uneccessarily as such too (among other things.. I dno how else it came to be this way :z)
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• 1254[11:12:52] <somiaj> numbdewd: no lets not assume its a debian system. It is not one, and as I said #debian supports only debian pure blends. If you want general linux help, try ##linux
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• 1261[11:13:58] <somiaj> numbdewd: you can use du to try to figure out where the space is being used, though a general ##linux chanel could help you with this.
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• 1264[11:14:51] <numbdewd> Well , it kinda is.. or was? ..I've just "polluted" it by adding non-default repos,and been filling up further from there to the point alot may be somewhat different I guess. Yet still, mostly and presumably in most ways relevant still quite debian-ish I'd think.. hmz.
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• 1267[11:15:07] <numbdewd> k.. yeah,thanks..will be trying.. ^ =]
• 1268[11:15:32] <somiaj> bensons: hopefully that workaround will get your machines up and running and at least make it easir to downgrade then hold the kernel until this bug is resolved.
• 1269[11:15:33] *** Joins: celyr (~celyr@replaced-ip)
• 1270[11:15:49] <somiaj> !don't break debian
• 1271[11:15:49] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, dont break debian is replaced-url
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• 1273[11:16:35] <somiaj> numbdewd: what distro are you running? If you are mixing, no one will support that, read the link the bot posted. But I can help point you to support for your distro if you share which debian-based distro you are running.
• 1274[11:16:46] *** Joins: Devastator_t (~Devastato@replaced-ip)
• 1275[11:17:12] <somiaj> also sometimes this is a good learning experience, but a backup + reinstall can sometimes be the easiest way to get things back to a sane/clean state.
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• 1277[11:18:13] <numbdewd> somiaj: I've added repos from some common/big security-based distros, specifically Parrot and Kali (and some of their dev/non-stable repos additionally..)
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• 1279[11:18:48] <numbdewd> anyway, k.. and thks neway tho also sorry for goin' off-topic then! :z :]
• 1280[11:18:52] <somiaj> numbdewd: don't mix. Pick one distro and stick with it. Note that part of what you get with a distro is the support commuinity. If you choose debian, #debian can help. If you choose kali or parrot, use their support.
• 1281[11:19:01] *** Joins: imadz713 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1282[11:19:06] <somiaj> at this point I would suggest a reinstall with the distro of your choice.
• 1283[11:19:31] *** Quits: Devastator (~Devastato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1284[11:19:47] <numbdewd> hmh, but ones such as those both contain things very relevant to each others purposes yet aren't always found in the individual one but are packages I'd like to have on the same distro rather than having multiple systems for each just for sake of having packages from both of these available... :x
• 1285[11:20:39] <Doc_> hi! I have moved my hdd with debian jessie to a new laptop, and I update to latest version. My issue is that some key has no sense use. Ex: down arrow disable mouse, Canc enable it.....How could I reset it?
• 1286[11:20:39] <kopper> Use virtualmachines or Live distros then.
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• 1289[11:21:01] <somiaj> packages in one debian distro are not designed to install in other debian distros. Sure apt/dpkg will try to do it if you tell it to, but you will break your system and no one will support it.
• 1290[11:21:28] <numbdewd> hm. I would, actuallly, if I could.. lol this may sound somewhat funky, but I found some obscure russian host where I paid with Bitcoin and some non-accurate ID/billing details given,using only shared-IP hosts to contact them (& server) with in an effort to maintain my anonymity.. I know the whole site is in russian and I'd need Google-translate for maneuvering alot of it, and also that things li
• 1291[11:21:59] <somiaj> (or learn how to build packages, you can compile the source code to get stuff from other places, but a binary .deb that uses shared libaries is not something you want to mix.
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• 1293[11:22:22] <numbdewd> ..like OS-reloads aren't free or possible to do for me thru some virtualization control-panel on my own either, and actually costs money.. I'd rather not contact em. (I've prepaid for 3 years in advance..had it some months already at this point.) (cost.. I think like $0.3 / month or so.. quite cheap, lol=)
• 1294[11:22:27] <numbdewd> o
• 1295[11:22:41] <somiaj> but again this is not debian, we have given you some advise, take it as you will. Maybe ##linux will support your monstrosity.
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• 1299[11:23:04] <numbdewd> "how to build packages".. sounds..tricky..hmh? ..something to try venture onto and figure, even for a n00b like me you think.. - not as hard as I may be imaginging it to be, or..?
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• 1301[11:23:44] <somiaj> Doc_: this sounds like a de/wm setting, what DE/WM are you using?
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• 1305[11:24:06] <Doc_> somiaj: GNOME
• 1306[11:24:09] <somiaj> numbdewd: everyone has to start learning somewhere. You got some good advise, use it as you will.
• 1307[11:24:10] <numbdewd> yeah.. (btw. I've mixed these repos on a GUI- and desktop- toppled version of this.. Deb8 + those foreign repos mixed, having installed nearly all the available packages from those there without issue (however)..)
• 1308[11:24:21] <somiaj> Doc_: that is strange behavior for gnome, but I would check its settingds under keybindings.
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• 1311[11:24:26] <numbdewd> somiaj: ya.. thanks indeed.!..will be trying.. 8)
• 1312[11:24:44] <somiaj> numbdewd: and in the future, ##linux if you just want general linux support.
• 1313[11:24:58] <numbdewd> alright
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• 1316[11:25:12] <Doc_> somiaj: do you mean trough menu list? or command line?
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• 1320[11:26:05] <somiaj> Doc_: gnome is mainly configured via its control pannel so that is what I mean (though I don't use gnome so can't say much more than that). There is also a gnome tweak tool for more complicated config options.
• 1321[11:27:21] <Doc_> somiaj: eh...i saw there yet :( i hoped in a command to reset it....like during installation phase
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• 1325[11:27:31] <Doc_> auto recognize
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• 1332[11:28:03] <somiaj> Doc_: there could be. I don't know gnome well enough to be of much help other than it sounds like a keybinding issue.
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• 1335[11:28:20] <somiaj> I mean there is gsettings or something like that which can control those options.
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• 1337[11:28:50] <Doc_> uhm.....dconf to me! somiaj thx u!
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• 1341[11:30:27] <somiaj> Doc_: one thing you may try is: create a new user, and log into gnome with that user. See if it works fine with default settings.
• 1342[11:30:46] <somiaj> if this is not a gnome/keybinding issue, but something to do with the keycodes of your laptop, you may need to look into keymaps.
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• 1345[11:31:03] <Doc_> uhm.....where keymaps are stored?
• 1346[11:32:24] <somiaj> I think they are more part of the kernel, though not that familar with them, never had an issue I had to figure it out.
• 1347[11:32:46] <somiaj> Doc_: ctrl-alt-f2 (open up a console and test if you think the keys are working like they should)
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• 1350[11:33:29] <Doc_> somiaj: dpkg-reconfigure maybe could help me...
• 1351[11:33:53] <somiaj> maybe, if it is a keymap issue.
• 1352[11:34:20] <Doc_> how could I know the model of my keyboard belong to you?
• 1353[11:34:22] <somiaj> you may have to track down where the issue is. It is the keymap in a console, is it an xorg key map, is it a key binding issue.
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• 1355[11:34:40] <Doc_> somiaj: in terimnal i cant use arrow down too
• 1356[11:34:49] <somiaj> it could also be something funky with that laptop. They tend to have this 'fn' key that then changes what keys do, maybe that key is 'sticking'
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• 1358[11:35:29] <Doc_> yes....when i press fn it do what it should do....without fn it doesnt do what it should do lol
• 1359[11:35:49] <somiaj> sounds like hardware issue with the laptop and the fn key then.
• 1360[11:36:06] <somiaj> maybe a bios/firmware setting, or some other issue. I've seen laptop keyboards do funky things when they start to go bad.
• 1361[11:36:15] <Doc_> yea....probably it use a wrong layout...
• 1362[11:36:50] <Doc_> i should recognize layout
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• 1366[11:39:01] <mandrakata75> salve!
• 1367[11:39:15] <mrig> Hello
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• 1369[11:39:49] <mandrakata75> volevo sapere se su un portatile con 4Gb di ram e processor Intel Celeron Debian funzione bene.
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• 1371[11:40:17] <Doc_> i try to restart...
• 1372[11:40:33] <Doc_> thx u somiaj
• 1373[11:40:57] <mrig> I am learning about qemu, and was wondering about the use of KVM in the debian environment, I see that the separate qemu-kvm package is available in the ecosystem, has the kvm merge back into the main package not yet been passed through the debian package system?
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• 1378[11:42:11] <somiaj> Doc_: the fn key causing the laptop to send differnt keycodes is not a keymap/layout issue, it is what keycode the hardware is sending.
• 1379[11:42:37] <mandrakata75> I say: I can use debian with next hardware requirement: laptop 4Gb ram, Indel celeron dual core
• 1380[11:42:41] <somiaj> mrig: they are kinda connected. qemu is for emulation, so you could say emulate arm arch on i386.
• 1381[11:43:03] <bazhang> mandrakata75, yes
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• 1383[11:43:27] <mandrakata75> I must upgrade debian after installation?
• 1384[11:43:27] <somiaj> mrig: while kvm is about using the virutalizing aspects of modern cpu, so you don't have to emulate the hardware, just pass it to the vm. so qemu-kvm uses a bit of both, uses what hardware it can, but then emulates the stuff it can't.
• 1385[11:43:38] <mrig> somiaj, I am wondering if I need to use the --enable-kvm flag on compile or install the qemu-kvm package
• 1386[11:44:00] <somiaj> mrig: I personally use libvirt to deal with those details.
• 1387[11:44:13] <mrig> somiaj, my cpu can do this so it would be great to enable it to preserve system resources :)
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• 1389[11:44:24] <mrig> what is libvirt?
• 1390[11:44:32] <mrig> sounds interesting!
• 1391[11:44:32] <somiaj> mandrakata75: yes. You will want the security updates that may have been released after the image you installed from.
• 1392[11:44:57] <somiaj> mrig: it is a colelction of tools to help manage virtualization software. it works with qemu-kvm and vbox. though most use it with qemu-kvm.
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• 1394[11:45:21] <somiaj> mrig: it gives you a set of tools to make things a bit easier, I use the command line tool virsh to manage my vms, though there is a gui tool virt-manager as well.
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• 1396[11:45:48] <doc_> somiaj: solved....dkpg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
• 1397[11:45:54] <mrig> ah ok, well if I can do it manually first, I learn best that way, but once understood it it is probably very useful.
• 1398[11:46:07] <doc_> very thx u!! restarted, and it works ^^
• 1399[11:46:12] <doc_> thx!
• 1400[11:46:36] <mrig> Oh I am happiest on the command line, just looking to stop the computer fan from firing up every operation :D
• 1401[11:46:46] <mandrakata75> I went from slackware, so I wish that debian has a gui tool to update. So I need to use less programs: Audacious, clawsmail, gimp, inkscape, emacs, libreoffice, texstudio
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• 1403[11:47:12] <bazhang> mandrakata75, it does have gui tools for that
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• 1405[11:47:54] <mandrakata75> Last question...what kind of DE you suggest me?
• 1406[11:48:41] <aaap> mandrakata75: there is a debian with various DE in the download list
• 1407[11:48:45] <somiaj> mrig: there is vrit-install to create vms, and the 'virsh start vname' runs it, and 'virt-viewer vmname' gives me either a vnc or spice (I use mostly spice now) window access to the vm.
• 1408[11:48:53] <aaap> depend on your system RAM and cpu
• 1409[11:49:05] <aaap> if you have alot of RAM on your computer, you can go gnome,kde etc
• 1410[11:49:05] <somiaj> mandrakata75: debian gives you lots of options, pick the one you like best.
• 1411[11:49:11] <mrig> somiaj, oh I see that it is in the debian doc for kvm to install this too. OK, I better actually read a little here and pause for some thought.
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• 1413[11:50:19] <mandrakata75> I like kde, but more heavy. Gnome is light?
• 1414[11:50:27] <somiaj> mandrakata75: no
• 1415[11:50:40] <mrig> Oh I will go with the minimal setup, will be good practice for embedded environments !
• 1416[11:50:45] <somiaj> mandrakata75: if you want light, lxde or xfce are usually consider the two light ones. lxde is lighter, but more people prefer xfce
• 1417[11:51:10] * mrig bends the knees so as to avoid banging his head.
• 1418[11:51:22] <mandrakata75> ok! thanks for suggestions!
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• 1420[11:52:13] <mandrakata75> I decide to try DEB bebcause under slack dependies package are not resolved
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• 1425[11:54:25] <brontosaurusrex> mandrakata75: what DE did you used in slack?
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• 1427[11:54:54] <mandrakata75> fluxbox
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• 1429[11:55:20] <brontosaurusrex> Well i'd go with that or openbox, but to each its own.
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• 1433[11:55:40] <Tang3nt> Hi
• 1434[11:55:40] <somiaj> mandrakata75: debian provides fluxbox, or 10+ other wms. don't install any de and go with fluxbox if that is what you like.
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• 1436[11:56:26] <Kyoshiro> somiaj, in fact I needed to reboot the server, /dev/log was refusing connections from non root users before I restarted
• 1437[11:56:27] <mandrakata75> I Know
• 1438[11:56:50] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: did that fix most your issues. tip: mkdir /var/log/journal if you want persistant journalctl logs.
• 1439[11:56:51] <Kyoshiro> I've never have such issues while upgrading a debian before :o
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• 1441[11:57:28] <mandrakata75> Thanks again!
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• 1443[11:57:53] <Kyoshiro> done already ;) but I don't really understand why /dev/log suddenly stopped accepting non root messages after upgrade ^^'
• 1444[11:57:56] <Kyoshiro> thanks
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• 1449[11:59:32] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: didn't you say the syslog program changed, maybe the old one had the file open not letting the new one to open it.
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• 1457[12:00:51] <Kyoshiro> hmm maybe indeed but since I deinstalled it I doubt it
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• 1459[12:01:09] <Kyoshiro> I think the problem was during upgrade, as syslog-ng was not able to access /dev/log either it seems
• 1460[12:01:11] <somiaj> well glad you got it figured out.
• 1461[12:01:31] <Kyoshiro> yeah, thank you for your help :)
• 1462[12:01:33] <somiaj> since it is a device, could be some issue with the kernel.
• 1463[12:01:42] <Kyoshiro> indeed :)
• 1464[12:02:05] <somiaj> oh /dev/log is a link created by maybe udev, maybe the link was just bad.
• 1465[12:02:25] <somiaj> /dev/log -> /run/systemd/journal/dev-log is what I have, a bad link could explain it.
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• 1467[12:03:11] <somiaj> Kyoshiro: though since it is now fixed, might just be guessing at this point.
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• 1469[12:04:04] <Kyoshiro> yeah, we'll never know ^^
• 1470[12:04:16] <Kyoshiro> anyways, thank you very much
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• 1472[12:04:50] <Kyoshiro> I'll try to understand better what's going on if it happens again on my other servers and fill a bug report
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• 1488[12:12:21] <Johrmungand> I honestly don't know if I should be asking this here, but did any of you try connecting you android phone to wifi and tethering (via USB) the connection to the PC you want to install Debian on?
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• 1498[12:19:17] <soul-d> joh if all else fails and dare from like file/iso you can always transfer files with netcat + dd or something the like
• 1499[12:21:27] <soul-d> oh nm i thought you wanted to get files on the android phone or something
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• 1503[12:23:51] <andre144k> hi all - anyone have a sample configuration for mutt for sending mails out without postfix? i wanna only login via smtp on an existing gmail-account. mail-passwd shld be stored automatically.
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• 1545[12:44:26] <Atomic3c3d> hello, libgl1-mesa-swx11 is not supported in stretch?
• 1546[12:45:14] <Atomic3c3d> Is there any replacement in stretch for that? I need software opengl rasterizer (I'm running debian on my phone)
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• 1571[12:56:50] <DerLGm> How can I help make Debian reproducible?
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• 1574[12:58:15] <n4dir> DerLGm: what?
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• 1577[12:59:38] <nkuttler> DerLGm: start here replaced-url
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• 1610[13:16:23] <bensons> somiaj: so the boxes do boot if i set 'nosmp'
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• 1612[13:17:27] <bensons> somiaj: but that somewhat defeats the purpose of my boxes :D
• 1613[13:18:52] <ForceRecon> do you think parrot is a good OS for daily non admin desktop
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• 1631[13:30:50] <towo^work> ForceRecon, no, is not
• 1632[13:31:04] <towo^work> and btw. not a topic for this channel
• 1633[13:32:58] <ForceRecon> yeah, I gather you are correct.. I figured it was based on debian.. I should have gone into offtopic.. sorry..
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• 1657[13:43:24] <numbdewd> ForceRecon: I think so, actually. More so for its apparent user-friendlyness and common use of base OS features and packages and compatibility accordingly, as well as its focus on ensuring a diverse selection and encouragement in using encryption and layered means to preserve ones anonymity by default, enabling easy use of such by default even.. for actual use or possibly inspiration
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• 1661[13:45:02] <numbdewd> call me paranoid, but, while a major n00b to nix.. seems to me ppl are under-estimating the encouragements and significance of actually verifying file-integrity, ensuring the safekeeping and control of, ones private keys and related for various uses.. and most just assume the default be fine, works as expected, if at all deploying any security to ensure continued integrity of essential core syst
• 1662[13:45:58] <ForceRecon> well the reason I ask is because I would never use KALI as my default os but prefer to use it in vmware along with an external usb antenna.. so since this is basically a kali competitor of some type, ( seems to have lots of the same apps ) upon first review I figured I would ask what most people thought.. thanks for that informative response
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• 1664[13:46:21] <numbdewd> ..system parts.. leading many into compromise Id imagine, not as often known -ever, possibly- in those cases however.. assuming some,even non-targeted attackers, were foresighted and/or coordinated in their efforts to compromise, exfiltrate and terminate after identifying eventual targets for further inspection (or preserve dormancy/leave/self-destruct..whatever)
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• 1666[13:46:59] <numbdewd> ForceRecon: oh. then, may I ask why you'd "never" use Kali. ? may be unrelated, but just curious why the apparent vehement opposition for use of such..hmh
• 1667[13:47:59] <ForceRecon> never use kali as my default desktop..
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• 1669[13:48:08] <numbdewd> (as a main desktop-system, that is, I mean.). It's potential for exposing compromising factors in the system thru lacking self-protective measures u mean, or by appearing as it is, not obscuyring the fact it's an -commonly used as anyway- tool for offensive security maneuvers
• 1670[13:48:27] <ForceRecon> I prefer it in vmware for box aspect along with being able to minimize it when I feel I am being checked out
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• 1673[13:49:01] <ForceRecon> so yeah offensive security maneuvers
• 1674[13:49:14] <numbdewd> what initially bothered me with it and made me rather anxious is how its very user-friendly in many ways, while also still encouraging (and possibly not easily allowing otherwise) use of the root-user by default for logins by the avg. user initially presented with the system with a fresh gui-install of it
• 1675[13:49:27] <ForceRecon> I cannot get parrot to like vmware tools over here.. stuck in its little box..
• 1676[13:50:27] <ForceRecon> offtopic numbdewd we should really not be talking about this here.. don't want to interrupt as I was really liking the conversation, but just not on topic for this channel
• 1677[13:50:32] <numbdewd> ive , with nearly every package from both even, somewhat successfully (however(?)) added kali AND parrot repos to what initially was a quite normal debian8 system and eventually got near all packages from both repos (besides some obviously conflicting) installed, actually :P (including the dev/unstable ones, too (like "kali bleeding-edge" repo, I mean)
• 1678[13:50:37] <numbdewd> k..sorry
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• 1696[14:06:19] <Devastator> I'm seeing this message during boot, I'm using LVM, anyway to fix it? WARNING: Device /dev/sda5 has size of 410155008 sectors which is smaller than corresponding PV size of 976267264 sectors. Was device resized? One or more devices used as PVs in VG host-vg have changed sizes.
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• 1704[14:10:38] <ubikite> hi, anyone knows the solution for "DIGEST-MD5 common mech free" continous logging problem?
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• 1769[14:48:57] <kopper> After upgrading Stretch to 9.3 and rebooting, I noticed that my system clock doesn't include daylight saving anymore. I tried to change timezone to UTC and back to what I use but no effect. timedatectl status doesn't give me anything on DST. Any tips what I should try to check?
• 1770[14:49:25] <kopper> Moving to somewhere without DST not an option at the moment.
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• 1774[14:50:42] <kopper> And doesn't give me anything as in "there's no line like "Daylight saving: no/yes"
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• 1776[14:51:12] <siim_> can't you just let a NTP server do the work for you?
• 1777[14:51:18] <siim_> seomthing public?
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• 1779[14:51:38] <kopper> I've understood that any daylight saving related is done at host level
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• 1781[14:52:11] <kopper> I've got NTP and it syncs fine, just that the system clock shows +1 hours
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• 1783[14:52:48] <kopper> I might be wrong of course
• 1784[14:53:38] <themill> kopper: what's the full output of "date; date --utc"
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• 1787[14:54:37] <kopper> replaced-url
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• 1790[14:55:29] <kopper> So what I'm expecting is 15:53:xx
• 1791[14:55:34] <themill> and what's the last line in /etc/adjtime?
• 1792[14:56:01] <kopper> Last one says "UTC"
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• 1796[14:56:49] <themill> so what makes you say that ntp is syncing?
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• 1804[15:06:15] <kopper> Sorry for the delay. Actually I'm less certain of that than I'd like to admit. :) Checked syslog after ntpd update and getting message like "proto: precision = 0.077 usec (-24)"
• 1805[15:06:36] <kopper> So I was assuming everythings like before
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• 1840[15:27:12] <FinalX> hum, 3.16.0-4 kernel upgrade of today killed off a whole bunch of jessie servers for us, kernel panics after reboot.. had to downgrade to an earlier kernel
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• 1842[15:27:27] <FinalX> anyone else having problems with that?
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• 1847[15:30:09] <FinalX> went from 3.16.43-2+deb8u5 to 3.16.51-2 in one instance I'm looking at, at least.
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• 1849[15:30:34] <prrrrro> Hey guys. Any of you have used memcached? I' ve wondering if I can flush a particular object.
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• 1851[15:31:13] <FinalX> prrrrro: replaced-url
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• 1856[15:33:15] <prrrrro> FinalX: Thanks!!!
• 1857[15:33:24] <FinalX> np :)
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• 1860[15:34:26] <anexit> hey all, strange thing is happening to me. My debian machine will no longer load webpages with my LAN device. I can ping google.com and all that but it will not resolve. iptables is off. If I load my wireless device everything works and I get the same lease from the same dhcpd
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• 1863[15:35:48] <anexit> From the nic I can ping but I cannot telnet host 22 or any port
• 1864[15:35:59] <anexit> and those ports are open on the remote side
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• 1884[15:40:49] <FinalX> ah, it's the boot-up scheduler fix in 3.16.49 that's biting us
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• 1892[15:44:13] <amorin> hey all
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• 1895[15:44:23] <amorin> is there any issue with security.debian.org at the moment>?
• 1896[15:44:39] <amorin> I cant ping 2 of the 4 ip behing the DNS
• 1897[15:44:42] <amorin> is it only me?
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• 1899[15:44:56] <matrix_architect> amorin, no issue here
• 1900[15:45:16] <matrix_architect> it redirects replaced-url
• 1901[15:46:44] <amorin> matrix_architect: thanks, you are rigth redirect works
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• 1903[15:47:03] <amorin> dig replaced-url
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• 1908[15:48:52] <anexit> figured it out
• 1909[15:48:55] <anexit> corporate firewall
• 1910[15:48:57] <anexit> :D
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• 1924[15:58:51] <kopper> themill: So NTP wasn't working afterall, and the reason was ntpd and systemd-timesyncd conflict.
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• 1927[15:59:23] <kopper> Removed ntp and used /etc/systemd/timesyncd.conf to configure NTP and all's fine again
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• 1933[16:02:37] <m1911> sorry
• 1934[16:02:53] <m1911> my app crashed
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• 1943[16:07:13] <FinalX> ah, there's already an active bug report.. replaced-url
• 1944[16:07:15] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 1952[16:12:18] <FinalX> seems logical now, it only affects machines with multiple active CPU sockets. explains why our KVM instances are continuing to run just fine.
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• 1954[16:13:17] <prrrrro> I've been reading the whole day about memcached and how to get stuff done with it. I'm trying to realize where the convertion from a url to a key is done, any clue?
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• 1956[16:14:40] <mspo> prrrrro: what do you mean?
• 1957[16:14:48] <bensons> FinalX: yes, same for us.. staging environment with 16 boxes was down..
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• 1959[16:15:02] <bensons> set nosmp via grub, boot, downgrad, pin..
• 1960[16:15:30] <mspo> prrrrro: you add keys with values and then get them later
• 1961[16:15:41] <FinalX> bensons: there's a sort of workaround in there, to set maxcpus to 1, and/or run the .43 kernel that we just upgraded from
• 1962[16:15:44] <mspo> prrrrro: there is no "url"
• 1963[16:15:51] <FinalX> but neither are ideal, obviously.
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• 1965[16:16:23] <bensons> FinalX: we had no backup kernel, as it was just a patchlevel upgrade.. and maxcpus=1 did not work for us (maybe we had a typo or so). setting nosmp worked
• 1966[16:16:39] <FinalX> ah ew
• 1967[16:16:44] <bensons> funny enough we have a 2 sockel cpu box that did not panic
• 1968[16:16:49] <FinalX> unattended-upgrades + automatic reboot screwed us over
• 1969[16:16:55] <bensons> FinalX: *clap* :D
• 1970[16:16:57] <FinalX> but we still had the old kernel available, luckily.
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• 1972[16:17:22] <FinalX> well they were all clustered machines, but lesson learned: double-check your other cluster nodes are up before rebooting yourself
• 1973[16:17:29] <prrrrro> mspo: What do you mean we add em? Isn't it a automatic converstion? From my whole website when someone visited it gets cached. Am I wrong?
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• 1975[16:17:58] <mspo> prrrrro: whatever software is powering your website is doing that
• 1976[16:18:17] <mspo> prrrrro: it just happens to be storing the page in memcached (or so you say)
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• 1980[16:18:53] <mspo> prrrrro: you can add things to memcached yourself with telnet or nc if yo ureally want to
• 1981[16:19:34] <prrrrro> mspo: Gotcha. So, yeah, php code which is powering my website.
• 1982[16:19:55] <prrrrro> mspo: This time what I want to do is to flush a key, because I'm getting an old version of it.
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• 1986[16:20:27] <mspo> prrrrro: just purge the whole cache
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• 1989[16:21:38] <mspo> flush_all
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• 1991[16:22:48] <prrrrro> mspo: It isn't an option. :(
• 1992[16:23:06] <prrrrro> I can't mess up the whole thing. It's prod.
• 1993[16:23:14] <prrrrro> I might*
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• 1996[16:23:49] <mspo> then reverse engineer how the keys are created
• 1997[16:24:15] <mspo> or grab it via tcpdump
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• 2059[16:58:47] <g0zzy> I can't work out whether this is a lousy font or if it's just bad anti-aliasing. What do you think? replaced-url
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• 2064[16:59:39] <jhutchins_wk> g0zzy: Try a different font?
• 2065[17:00:34] <g0zzy> Actually, i'm not being quite truthful. I'm somewhat more convinced of the latter, since i HAVE done ;)
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• 2067[17:01:48] <g0zzy> Or are certain apps just better at rendering themselves. Curiouly, the other app i have a grouch about (that's Thunderbird) is Firefox (and not the Stretch's)
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• 2072[17:03:10] <g0zzy> Anyhow, the UI's definitely looking worse since Jessie->Stretch
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• 2074[17:03:41] <dionysus69> bug report > transfering large amounts of data (> 100gb) from one usb 3.0 to another usb 3.0, ended up in freeze
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• 2076[17:03:58] <dionysus69> even alt + prtscr reisub didnt work
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• 2119[17:24:54] <thow> any clue why snmptrapd doesn't start on stretch backports with mariadb? i get snmptrapd: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnetsnmptrapd.so.30: undefined symbol: my_progname
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• 2121[17:26:24] <thow> it's looking for that symbol on libmysqlclient18/libmariadbclient18
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• 2137[17:36:25] <g0zzy> Looks like you might have backported your way into binary incompatibility
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• 2141[17:37:17] <thow> any clue how to fix that?
• 2142[17:37:28] <g0zzy> Don't use backports?
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• 2145[17:38:12] <thow> i don't think it's related to backports.
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• 2147[17:38:28] <brw> why are you using a backport verison of the package, did it disappear in the current release?
• 2148[17:38:30] <thow> netsnmp has no backports on stretch, and i'm using mariadb repo, not backports' mariadb
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• 2155[17:40:21] <jelly> thow: which versions of libsnmp30 snmptrapd packages?
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• 2158[17:40:49] <jelly> dpkg -l libsnmp30 snmptrapd | tail -n 2
• 2159[17:40:50] <dpkg> ii libsnmp30 snmptrapd | tail -n 2 2.6-14.2 jelly's private warez collection
• 2160[17:40:50] <thow> i mean: it seems to be a conflict between netsnmp (5.7.3+dfsg-1.7 on the main branch) and libmariadbclient18 (10.2.11+maria~stretch from mariadb repo)
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• 2163[17:41:09] <thow> # dpkg -l | grep snmptrap
• 2164[17:41:09] <thow> ii snmptrapd 5.7.3+dfsg-1.7 amd64
• 2165[17:41:42] <thow> 2.6 ??
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• 2168[17:42:07] <thow> all netsnmp packages on stretch are 5.7.3
• 2169[17:42:43] <annadane> i think that's just a joke by dpkg
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• 2173[17:43:46] <thow> yeah, that "jelly's private warez collection" doesn't sound like the official debian package :D
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• 2179[17:45:05] <brw> too bad. Bet there's some mad Adobe Illustrator warez in there
• 2180[17:45:43] <dionysus69> in order to unite home partition with root, do I just have to copy existing home partition data in /home dir and then chown with my regular user right?
• 2181[17:45:50] <dionysus69> anything else I am missing?
• 2182[17:45:50] <thow> oh, btw, let me know if there's any avid pro tools 12.7/12.8 for windows
• 2183[17:45:51] <thow> xD
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• 2187[17:47:46] <g0zzy> dionysus69: that seems ok. It's a recursive directory copy
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• 2189[17:48:35] <dionysus69> g0zzy: ok sounds good, I ll have to do it from live session anyway
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• 2196[17:51:17] <g0zzy> What is the target and who owns it?
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• 2198[17:52:19] <clab> I'm having problem with xkbset to set the mouse keys, it always resets the setting
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• 2206[17:55:26] <ed_> hello, quick question, if i have a list of packages, how can i turn that into uris (hint, apt-get has broken so need to wget and dpkg -i)
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• 2214[17:57:31] <zorxd> Hi, I get the following error when trying to load the usbserial module on Debian 9.3 (kernel 4.9.0-4-amd64): usbserial: Unknown symbol __tty_insert_flip_char (err 0)
• 2215[17:57:37] *** Quits: SmearedBeard (~SmearedBe@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2216[17:57:38] <zorxd> any idea what's wrong?
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• 2220[17:59:42] <g0zzy> ed_: Can you pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list ?
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• 2223[18:00:22] <RoyK> zorxd: did you insmod it or modprobe it?
• 2224[18:00:27] <jelly> zorxd: if you patched your system recently, you may have to reboot into the new kernel
• 2225[18:00:30] <zorxd> modprobe
• 2226[18:01:00] <zorxd> the uptime is 37 days. I can still try a reboot
• 2227[18:01:07] <jelly> (which has the same ABI as the old kernel, 4.9.0-4-amd64)
• 2228[18:01:08] <zorxd> I am using the default kernel, nothing special
• 2229[18:01:26] <jelly> ,v linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64 --arch amd64
• 2230[18:01:27] <judd> Package: linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64 on amd64 -- stretch: 4.9.65-3
• 2231[18:01:42] <jelly> that looks newer than 37 days
• 2232[18:01:49] <n4dir> ed_: if there would be a page which lists all packages of debian as deb packages, there would be a solution (with lynx), but i am not sure if there is such a page (that is: i don't think )
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• 2235[18:02:34] <n4dir> replaced-url
• 2236[18:02:44] <jelly> zorxd: check the date on ls -lc /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-4-amd64
• 2237[18:02:59] <n4dir> replaced-url
• 2238[18:03:07] <n4dir> how to put the two links together is beyond me.
• 2239[18:03:59] <zorxd> jelly: thanks, the reboot did it.
• 2240[18:04:15] <ed_> n4dir: yeah, that's the problem i have, sifting through packages.debian.org. would be nice if i could prevent apt-get from terminating before --print-uri i wouldnt have to reinvent a wheel
• 2241[18:04:29] <jelly> ed_: how specifically did apt-get break?
• 2242[18:04:45] <somiaj> bensons: understand. But at least this gets them up and running while you wait for the issue to be fixed.
• 2243[18:04:49] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
• 2244[18:04:49] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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• 2246[18:05:08] <ed_> replaced-url
• 2247[18:05:16] <ed_> at the pkgProblemResolver::Resolve part
• 2248[18:05:28] <ed_> i understand i'm in an unsupported area
• 2249[18:05:42] <jelly> oh, you're attempting a crossgrade
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• 2251[18:06:09] <ed_> yeah, that's where i'm at. stupid me, 8 years ago thought i386 would never go away
• 2252[18:07:03] <jelly> I still have i386, only with a couple dozen amd64 packages
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• 2255[18:07:56] <jelly> ed_: can you pastebin the output of "apt-get -f install" ?
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• 2260[18:09:46] <ed_> jelly: replaced-url
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• 2264[18:11:53] <jelly> ed_: I'd focus on perl-base and perl, and try again
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• 2267[18:12:45] <jelly> ed_: does "apt-get download perl-base:amd64" work?
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• 2283[18:20:00] <jelly> if it works even when apt state is that broken, that'd be very good news for situations when manual resolving of deps is needed
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• 2302[18:28:03] <ed_> hey, jelly that worked, but i don't know why. you have groked this well
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• 2339[18:39:25] <Canucktux> I think I broke something but I'm not sure what
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• 2341[18:39:54] <Canucktux> after I log in I can't get my file manager or "ls"
• 2342[18:40:03] <Canucktux> but they both sorta work if I run as root
• 2343[18:40:54] <Canucktux> I think one of my auto mounts in ~/ is messing it up
• 2344[18:40:54] <annadane> Canucktux, which file manager?
• 2345[18:41:06] <Canucktux> annadane: thunar
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• 2347[18:41:24] <n4dir> Canucktux: the first thing i would do is check if any file in the home directory is owned by a different user (and i would grep for root)
• 2348[18:42:18] <jhutchins_wk> Canucktux: Have you run any GUI program as root?
• 2349[18:42:35] <Canucktux> all looks normal when I ran sudo ls -l /home
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• 2351[18:43:17] <Canucktux> jhutchins_wk: yes, it works then as long as I am not looking at my home directory
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• 2353[18:44:08] <Canucktux> I opened gnome-files and it only breaks when I try my auto SSH-FS mount in ~/sshfsmount replaced-url
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• 2356[18:44:59] <Canucktux> hmm, I can't ssh normally into the other system either
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• 2360[18:47:45] <Canucktux> hmm, I turned off the NAS and everything seems to work now
• 2361[18:48:13] <Canucktux> Why are FUSE/SSHFS issues cascading down into the rest of my OS?
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• 2363[18:48:37] <ForceRecon> what file do we change to change the prompt?
• 2364[18:48:44] <ForceRecon> where is it located?
• 2365[18:48:48] <ForceRecon> please advise
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• 2367[18:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1709
• 2368[18:49:11] <n4dir> ForceRecon: ~/.bashrc
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• 2373[18:50:45] <Canucktux> Welp, I think my NAS finally kicked the bucket
• 2374[18:50:52] <somiaj> ForceRecon: n4dir: ~/.bashrc will only work for interactive shells, there is also .profile or .bash_profile for login shells. Depending on your setup you may need to edit both files if you want both interactive and login(1) shells to be affected.
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• 2376[18:51:07] <numbdewd> ForceRecon: i think u could also edit /etc/passwd and change .. like /bin/sh into whatever path to whatever else (like.. /usr/bin/fish .. or whatv)
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• 2379[18:51:39] <oskie> hello debians. I'm on jessie, and I want to upgrade. But I am hesitating due to systemd (i'm sysadmining systemd servers but i'd rather not have it on my home server). What are my options?
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• 2381[18:51:55] <n4dir> somiaj: not sure, i think .profile sources .bashrc, in general you are right.
• 2382[18:52:02] <numbdewd> hm. Windows, maybe? OpenBSD apparently is quite solid also
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• 2386[18:52:21] <somiaj> n4dir: I'm unsure if that is a default or something the user has to setup.
• 2387[18:52:35] <n4dir> same here. anyway: thanks for the further info.
• 2388[18:52:40] <somiaj> n4dir: since .profile is read by other shells than bash, it would be very strange if it sourced .bashrc by default.
• 2389[18:53:05] <somiaj> my profile does source .bashrc, but this is something I had to add to it, by default I do not think this is the case.
• 2390[18:53:09] <annadane> isn't systemd already in jessue...
• 2391[18:53:09] <n4dir> good thought. Here, on slackware, it does source .bashrc. weird.
• 2392[18:53:13] <annadane> s/jessue/jessie
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• 2394[18:53:33] <annadane> unless you elected not to use it and you're worried stretch will introduce it
• 2395[18:53:41] <jelly> ed_: because it doesn't have to look at apt state at all to just download a package, I guess. Now you have a way forward I guess, download with apt download and install with dpkg :-)
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• 2397[18:53:52] * jelly guesses too much
• 2398[18:53:55] <somiaj> oskie: jessie uses systemd, so you are already using systemd unless you did something to not use it, in which case you can do the same thing in stretch.
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• 2403[18:56:33] <Canucktux> hopefully removing the SSHFS mount from my FSTAB should make everything work smoothly
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• 2414[18:59:10] <somiaj> n4dir: oh wait, I decided to use .bash_profile to source .bashrc, this way other shells won't read it.
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• 2422[19:01:25] <Canucktux> Good news is all my file systems work now when I removed the sshfs mount from my fstab, bad new is my NAS is dead :/
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• 2424[19:01:44] <Canucktux> rest in peace little Arch Linux NAS
• 2425[19:02:02] <n4dir> pretty sure i didn't edit it, and after mounting debian this is what i get: if [ -n "$BASH_VERSION" ]; then ... . "$HOME/.bashrc fi
• 2426[19:02:03] <n4dir> ...
• 2427[19:02:18] <n4dir> somiaj: but it doesn't matter much. You answer was the better one
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• 2430[19:02:33] <ForceRecon> wow.. thanks all.. I will check them all!
• 2431[19:02:50] <ForceRecon> what does this do?
• 2432[19:03:06] <ForceRecon> echo $PS1
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• 2436[19:03:42] <somiaj> ForceRecon: it just prints the enviroment variable PS1, which is what is used to set the promt
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• 2438[19:04:16] <n4dir> on a side note: *always* quote variables -> "$PS1"
• 2439[19:04:49] <somiaj> n4dir: I was almsot thinking that could be the case, but my $HOME dir is 10+ years old, so I may be unsure what current defaults would be.
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• 2443[19:05:24] <Canucktux> is there anything I can do in the future so a bad mount doesn't lock up my file system?
• 2444[19:05:45] <n4dir> all changes i make to .profile and .bashrc is set the PS1 to "user$" ... would be weird if here was an exception
• 2445[19:05:55] <somiaj> n4dir: you can see the current default in /etc/skel if intersted.
• 2446[19:06:38] <n4dir> yup, that has it too. thanks for the hint
• 2447[19:06:57] <somiaj> Canucktux: there might be a systemd setting in fstab for this, but in general there could be something important on a mount your system needs, so if the mount doesn't work it might be best to not continue running services.
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• 2450[19:07:59] <somiaj> Canucktux: systemd is just a bit more agressive about saying, oh I can't mount this, I think I best stop, as other things could go wrong if I keep on going.
• 2451[19:08:18] <Canucktux> this was just a NAS full of media mounted to a folder in ~, when I was on a different network it failed smoothly
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• 2454[19:09:18] <Canucktux> the HDD died in the NAS but it still had arch linux running in memory so it wasn't totally dead
• 2455[19:09:40] <gone2far2lookbac> clear
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• 2458[19:10:08] <somiaj> Canucktux: it appears there is a 'nofail' option, and mount points this will only be wanted, not required, so the system will continue to boot if they fail.
• 2459[19:10:22] <somiaj> Canucktux: by default systemd just assume that all mounts are required, and you have to tell it which ones aren't.
• 2460[19:10:52] <Canucktux> hmm, I'll have to look into that
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• 2462[19:11:12] <somiaj> Canucktux: so you can configure your fstab to let systemd know that some mounts are not required.
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• 2465[19:13:06] <ForceRecon> somiaj, is that something I just type at the terminal? I see no change.. Maybe it is best I show you what I want to accomplish and then instead of be dissecting the entire distro, you can maybe lead me in the proper direction
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• 2469[19:13:43] <somiaj> ForceRecon: those files are only parsed when the shell is loaded. You would have to open a new shell to see the change.
• 2470[19:14:02] <somiaj> ForceRecon: you could also export PS1=...., to change your current terminal, but these won't be restored next time.
• 2471[19:14:09] <ForceRecon> replaced-url
• 2472[19:14:21] <ForceRecon> I want my prompt and colors to look like this in debian
• 2473[19:14:32] <somiaj> !parrot
• 2474[19:14:32] <dpkg> Parrot OS (replaced-url
• 2475[19:14:49] <ForceRecon> ahhhhh
• 2476[19:14:50] <ForceRecon> okeedo
• 2477[19:14:56] <somiaj> ForceRecon: also please respect #debian's policy to only support debian pure blends. You are running parrot, so use their support network.
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• 2479[19:15:24] <ForceRecon> agreed, but I am trying to get this working on debian stretch.. and you guys know best :)
• 2480[19:15:25] <somiaj> ForceRecon: in this case the prompt is set by bash, so you could ask more about this in #bash
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• 2538[19:44:48] <ebernhardson> I have some instances that run jessie, but i have a need for chromium >=59 (which supports headless). The official jessie packages are for 57, anyone know where i might find un-official updates? I know i could grab chrome but prefer to run OSS if at all possible
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• 2545[19:47:10] <jelly> ,v chromium
• 2546[19:47:11] <judd> Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; buster: 62.0.3202.89-1; sid: 63.0.3239.84-1
• 2547[19:47:43] <annadane> i would say "just download the tar" but i'm looking at their site and can't even find the download section
• 2548[19:48:12] <annadane> the source is available so you may be able to build from source as well
• 2549[19:48:15] <jelly> source tarball of v8 and chromium and $DEITY knows what else
• 2550[19:48:17] <jelly> ?
• 2551[19:48:39] <jelly> that thing + its deps is HUGE
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• 2553[19:49:07] <ebernhardson> jelly: lol, yea i was pondering that but i was warned by a coworker that chromium follows toolchain updates fairly closely and that caused chromium to be EOLed out of wheezy early (and i may run into similar issues)
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• 2555[19:50:23] <annadane> interesting. i guess i should avoid "just use the source, bro" directives when i don't even know the particulars of a given program
• 2556[19:50:29] <annadane> it's good general advice but..
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• 2558[19:50:59] <jelly> avoiding giving advice on stuff you don't know about is in general a good idea
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• 2573[19:56:49] <somiaj> ebernhardson: support for chromium has ended in jessie, so if running jessie, I woudln't be using chromium. Maybe google-chrome will run in jessie. You may consider upgrading to stretch.
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• 2575[19:57:51] <jelly> google-chrome-stable:amd64 worked in jessie at least until 60-61
• 2576[19:57:52] <somiaj> ebernhardson: chromium was actually supported in wheezy by the lts team, which is longer than wheezy was offical released, so I woudln't say it ended in wheezy early. In jessie, yes chromium support is done, and it ended in jessie early.
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• 2579[19:58:30] <jelly> don't know what happened after that because I finally upgraded the remaining jessie workstation
• 2580[19:58:35] <somiaj> I mean wheezy was offically supported.
• 2581[19:58:55] <ebernhardson> makes sense. These are just VM's so i'll tool around with getting them running stretch, there is just a bunch of puppet tooling around how it gets built in jessie so lots of fun getting it over to stretch
• 2582[19:59:01] <somiaj> hmm, maybe I should think of a better way to describe the support difference between oldstable and lts.
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• 2590[20:01:14] <jelly> somiaj: eh, isn't it basically "this one security team has been working for free for 20+ years" vs "this other security team actually PAYS people to do boring security work"
• 2591[20:01:17] * jelly hides
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• 2595[20:01:49] <somiaj> jelly: nice (:'
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• 2597[20:02:15] <somiaj> jelly: I was more thinking about that lts is only limited support, while oldstable for the first year is full.
• 2598[20:02:39] <somiaj> but I was surprised to see that wheezy-lts supported chromium, as I thought lts was only server side stuff.
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• 2600[20:03:19] <rawruw> somiaj: meet me at #debian-offtopic I challenge you >:(
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• 2602[20:04:09] <ebernhardson> jelly: we try and do our part, my coworker that suggested it would be hard to build is on the debian security team :) i know he at least gets some work time to do debian security work
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• 2610[20:05:46] <jelly> well I thankfully stand corrected, and hey, great employer you got there!
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• 2649[20:26:44] <RATS> :)
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• 2697[20:46:46] <rawruw> RATS: join #debian-offtopic. It's jelly's birthday today, say congratulations and join the meeting
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• 2699[20:47:29] <numbdewd> simple way to make [Y/n] rather default to [y/N] for "apt-get install .." (and possibly other things..unsure) ?
• 2700[20:47:44] <RATS> Alright happy together all ya , yeah ?
• 2701[20:47:54] <numbdewd> ya man, 'sall good
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• 2703[20:48:13] <RATS> Oh yehyeh man
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• 2705[20:48:22] <numbdewd> I mean to change apt-get install's response to the request for installing packages from Yes by default to No. Simpyl clicking enter , as it is now, would have it proceeed and install aassuming Yes
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• 2712[20:50:16] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: You could do that by downloading the source code, altering the default, and building your own version.
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• 2718[20:52:36] <numbdewd> hm..sounds hard.. have mercy with a n00b, also mind you Im mostly only used to (and use, despite GUI available.. by habit,and never getting fully used to the GUI anyway..) , kinda new to it all tho.. unsure if I'd manage.. or , you thhink.. ? (or at least so ,possibly , with reading (not exceeding a dozen pages or more preferrably, or for many things.. (would bore & demotivate me, afraid Id g
• 2719[20:52:46] *** Joins: idwrqd (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2720[20:52:53] <numbdewd> ..give it up b4 finishing that,then :\ )) )
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• 2722[20:53:29] <RATS> Hmm..
• 2723[20:53:55] * RATS no idea
• 2724[20:54:00] <numbdewd> "downloading the src [..] altering the default and [..]" sounds interesting and something I'd like to know tho, at least eventually! ..hmmh.
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• 2727[20:55:01] <numbdewd> I mean fora bunch of other reasons too possibly, besides changing this simple behavior on apt-get (which is mostly just a matter of care/caution and convenience to me atm anyway and not too important)
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• 2729[20:55:54] <numbdewd> hmm. .. any suggestions, yeah even if it seems a bunch to read up on and all.., where I'd get started if to look more into learning that? (..besides "debian-handbook" or "man gcc" ? :d )
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• 2731[20:56:00] <RATS> Amerika express bank?
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• 2733[20:56:44] <somiaj> numbdewd: I would not suggest rebuilding apt. I almost see an xy problem here, why do you want this default to change? Explain your use case.
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• 2735[20:57:32] <ArseniusGreat> !hours
• 2736[20:57:45] <numbdewd> k. mainly due to.. what I think must be accidental clicks while I dont notice it, but unsure- some times I type "apt-get install .." and it has a list of changes to make/install/remove it asks and Im not happy about it, and it proceeds and goes on asif I had clicked enter
• 2737[20:58:12] *** Quits: idwrqd (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2738[20:58:24] <numbdewd> (as, typing "apt-get install <something>" and immediately, before it processes what to install and all even, clicking enter directly after, it'd take that as a Y when it reaches that point (same as doing "apt-get -y install .." I guess
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• 2740[20:58:59] <numbdewd> it's elad to some accidental start of processing stuff (like removing essential parts I really didnt want it to where I've ctrl+c'd my way out of it, the times I've had time to, lol)
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• 2742[20:59:18] <somiaj> numbdewd: apt-get --assume-no blah, or apt-get --dry-run blah, these can give you what apt would do with out doing anything if you want to double check stuff before you go.
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• 2744[20:59:29] <numbdewd> (that , too, some times - i guess - leading to issues as well (ctrl+c'ing amidst that .. )
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• 2746[20:59:41] <somiaj> but it sounds like you just want to ensure that an acendentail hit of enter doesn't continue until you are ready.
• 2747[20:59:42] <numbdewd> oh..hmh! Interesting.. cool, thanks!
• 2748[21:00:01] <numbdewd> I guess may be I could simply setup alias for apt-get and include that --assume-no then, or something?
• 2749[21:00:05] <numbdewd> hm..
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• 2752[21:00:55] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: As programming changes go, it's a simple one - but it's programming, and you'd need to be able to understand where in the code that default is set.
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• 2755[21:01:16] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: It was a slightly sarcastic response.
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• 2757[21:01:47] <numbdewd> hm well I can see the output that leads to..if I could search my way to that, and possibly see some function/code/.. calling that, search the name of that... etc., and try dig my way to it..! lol
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• 2760[21:03:09] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: It would be interesting, and if you have an eventual goal of learning to code it'd be worth while, but to fix a trivial item like that it's probably not a reasonable path.
• 2761[21:03:15] <somiaj> numbdewd: also every time apt is updated, you need to go through the whole process of rebuilding your custom apt again.
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• 2764[21:03:53] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: So probably more worth while to adapt to the current default.
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• 2766[21:04:33] <numbdewd> k. well then, assuming I'd find this useful for other things down the road.., that could be motivation by itself too, and also fixing this lil thing wouldnt be That important to me either.. figuring out how to do something like that, possibly applicable for other things as well sounds much more attractive.. hmz.
• 2767[21:05:02] <numbdewd> somiaj: oh.. huh. hm, yeah that sounds..discouraging then.
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• 2770[21:05:17] <numbdewd> (for sake of trying to make that change in its source and rebuild I meant)
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• 2773[21:06:02] <jhutchins_wk> numbdewd: The point is that while the change itself is trivial, setting up and learning the process is not.
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• 2775[21:06:16] <somiaj> numbdewd: a more sophiscated approach might be figure out how this default is set, and if it is hard coded, change it to an option that can be configured via a command line flag or a APT:: configuration item, then submit this patch to the matainers and see if they like it, and eventaully it is now part of apt.
• 2776[21:06:23] *** Joins: clab (~clab@replaced-ip)
• 2777[21:07:03] <numbdewd> If I want to make a "standardized" debian-install, mostly plain install and having updated/upgraded packages as well as installed some of my own too.. , is there a package I could use to more or less easily turn the whole system into something like a single file (or even multiple) for possibly replicating on to servers and run as a VM? (with QEMU/KVM maybe, or whatever)
• 2778[21:07:19] <somiaj> !aptitude clone
• 2779[21:07:19] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
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• 2781[21:08:41] <numbdewd> somiaj: cool.. I should prolly refrain from bothering them actual developers of this whole thing tho,and for a while..as n00b as i am =p (I'd prolly be missing something, ask something asked before somewhere I missed, ..ask what can't be done (reasonably)..or such, and just be bothersome/waste time Im afraid.. =d ..maybe one day tho..! =]
• 2782[21:08:50] <numbdewd> and thanks!.. interesting..hmm^^
• 2783[21:09:10] <somiaj> note that only preserves the package list, configuration files may also need to be stored some where, and there are multiple tools to do this too.
• 2784[21:09:25] <somiaj> you can also automate this all for servers/vms with puppet or other tools
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• 2787[21:10:15] <numbdewd> o. yeah, I may have custom files placed on the system.., settings and even non-standard stuff added which Id like to preserve.. possible to rather get like an "image" of the whole thing, that'd be compatible with some virtualization software to mount with?
• 2788[21:10:21] <somiaj> numbdewd: you could also file a wish-list bug if it is a feature you think should be in apt. In this case you mention a feature you would like to the developers, and they look at it and decide if they think it is a feature apt should have, and weither or not to implement it. That is if your goal is to try to get this feature into apt.
• 2789[21:10:22] <numbdewd> hm..
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• 2792[21:11:18] <somiaj> but I doubt they will change they default. They may (unsure how likely this is) entertain the idea of making the default a setting vs hard coded (if it really is hard coded, I just didn't find any way to change it)
• 2793[21:11:20] <numbdewd> cool.. and yeah I'd think it be a good thing not only for me (being bothered by that occasional apparent slip and cause issues as a result :d )
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• 2801[21:13:02] <numbdewd> mh, at least if they havent considered it much already I guess the only way for a chagne is ppl bringing it up anyway, too.. hmh. Maybe I'll.. eventually, prolly best not for now tho (I don't even know where to find the site, and Id expect a buncha guidelines needing reading for posting in some standardized format, or something. (not just a <textaera> and submit-button for anonymous suggestions
• 2802[21:13:06] <numbdewd> ..i mean :p
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• 2806[21:15:17] <a228> how do i run xinput in debian?
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• 2809[21:15:51] <phogg> open terminal, type xinput, hit enter. You may need to install the xinput package first.
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• 2811[21:16:18] <somiaj> yea xinput isn't installed by default. Once it is installed, use it
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• 2813[21:17:28] <RATS> *hacker*?
• 2814[21:18:26] <ed_> replaced-url
• 2815[21:18:35] <RATS> I saw to big technology networking:) true?
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• 2817[21:18:55] <ed_> im still working my way through a crossgraded process... does that look ok?
• 2818[21:19:15] <RATS> Iraq?
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• 2820[21:20:26] <RATS> Oh.. OK still your place :)
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• 2827[21:23:03] <numbdewd> replaced-url
• 2828[21:23:10] <Iridos> ed_, no
• 2829[21:23:14] <numbdewd> @RATS..
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• 2832[21:23:29] <Iridos> that looks like a train wreck
• 2833[21:23:29] <ed_> Iridos: glad im not the only one
• 2834[21:23:30] <numbdewd> yoti=onto*
• 2835[21:24:10] <Iridos> I mean… WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
• 2836[21:24:13] <Iridos> wtf did you do there
• 2837[21:24:22] <ed_> like i said, cross grading
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• 2839[21:25:03] <RATS> Hmm
• 2840[21:25:40] <jhutchins_wk> ed_: Trying to do 32 to 64?
• 2841[21:25:49] <ed_> jhutchins_wk: yes
• 2842[21:25:52] <Iridos> you mean… moving from i386-->amd64?
• 2843[21:25:56] <ed_> yes, that
• 2844[21:26:02] <Iridos> well… why
• 2845[21:26:08] <ed_> well, docker
• 2846[21:26:24] <Iridos> that means?
• 2847[21:26:28] *** Joins: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip)
• 2848[21:26:50] <ed_> which started out fine when i booked the amd64 kernel, then apt needed some dependencies
• 2849[21:27:07] <ed_> docker does not run on i386
• 2850[21:27:17] <Iridos> well, so?
• 2851[21:27:46] <ed_> plus i heared that i386 will no be supported forever, so time to move
• 2852[21:28:14] <Iridos> yes, but the way to do that is to do an apt-get or aptitude clone to get your package list back and reinstall
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• 2854[21:28:48] <Iridos> well, and obviously backup all your data, although you can just keep a separate /home
• 2855[21:29:11] <jhutchins_wk> ed_: Wouldn't it be nice to have a fresh, clean install witout the accumulated cruft?
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• 2857[21:30:02] <ed_> yes, i did think the worst case (this, where clean install is needed) might be best case
• 2858[21:30:12] <ed_> however, i'm learning stuff along the way
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• 2860[21:30:21] <ed_> and reinstalling is for RHELers
• 2861[21:30:27] *** Quits: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2862[21:30:31] <Iridos> dpkg, debian clone
• 2863[21:30:32] <dpkg> One method of cloning Debian installs is to take a current Debian machine that is set up with the packages you want and run the command "dpkg --get-selections > ~/selectionfile". Then, after the base install on other machines use that file and do: "dpkg --set-selections < ~/selectionfile && apt-get dselect-upgrade". Also ask me about <aptitude clone>, <reinstall>, <things to backup> <apt-clone>.
• 2864[21:30:41] <jhutchins_wk> ed_: Well, as long as you enjoy yourself. I admit I tried a crossgrade before I did a clean install.
• 2865[21:31:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 2866[21:31:05] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@ARennes-656-1-380-90.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr$##not-a-honeypot
• 2867[21:31:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 2868[21:31:15] <jhutchins_wk> The problem with cloning 32 to 64 is that the packages don't necessarily match.
• 2869[21:31:19] <Iridos> ed_, and actually… maybe that apt list does look "ok" for what you're attempting
• 2870[21:31:27] <ed_> i figure if i can get the apt-get -f install to proceed without anything in the essential list then might be just fine
• 2871[21:31:37] <Iridos> it's removing essential i386 packages… and one can only hope it's replacing them with amd64 ones
• 2872[21:31:48] <Iridos> still looks like a train wreck
• 2873[21:31:53] <ed_> util-linux looks unhappy though
• 2874[21:32:04] <ed_> didn't see the 64 variant of that
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• 2878[21:32:47] <numbdewd> ive mixed 32 & 64bit packages b4.. a lot of stuff, can't remember exactly what, or what i was doing (possibly more than once)..i think more than one of those times ending with such a mess I couldnt easily fix and resorted to renistall of the whole thing instead :z
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• 2880[21:33:18] <numbdewd> OS that is. (not made similar mistake in/since Stretch tho.. yet)
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• 2883[21:33:35] <ed_> numbdewd: ive done it the other way around before, starting with a 64bit machine and adding some 32bit non-free, but that was only the odd package
• 2884[21:33:52] <numbdewd> may be that was what I did too actually..can't rememvber :x
• 2885[21:34:30] <numbdewd> would expect that be more likely often compatible (64bit system wth 32bit apps), but maybe not, or not always anyway
• 2886[21:34:36] <ed_> this box has been around since whatever was stable in 2008, so im not surprised in having problems. sadly though, the docker thing was to try and prevent a spof in this situation
• 2887[21:34:46] <ed_> irony.
• 2888[21:35:50] <Iridos> wasn't the docker api kinda unstable and a freaking nightmare?
• 2889[21:35:57] <Iridos> or am I confusing that with some other container solution
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• 2891[21:36:39] <jelly> ed_, it looks a lot better than the last paste I saw...
• 2892[21:36:50] <webmind> is there a way to do named interfaces in debian stretch? it makes my network config so much clearer
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• 2894[21:37:02] <ed_> jelly, i think you deserve a monument!
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• 2897[21:38:00] <Iridos> mound jelly?
• 2898[21:39:13] <Iridos> so… you're saying this looks comparatively ok… and I should have seen the nightmare it was before it became this nightmare? ^^
• 2899[21:40:20] <ed_> your wish is my command, replaced-url
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• 2907[21:41:31] <jelly> Iridos, it's a crossgrade, a nightmare by definition and intent
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• 2910[21:45:12] <numbdewd> Iridos: unsure if relevant, but here seems to be some management software for Docker possibly making thigns easier.. open-source and cross-platform seemingly.. I haven't tried it,know very little about Docker too mind you..neway, it's....here!~> replaced-url
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• 2914[21:45:32] <laptop212321321> is debian faster than lbuntu
• 2915[21:45:45] *** Joins: M3mphiZ (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2916[21:45:51] <jelly> laptop212321321, probably not by any relevant measure
• 2917[21:46:07] <somiaj> numbdewd: debian does support multi-arch so mixing packages is fine, but only libs can have both versions isntalled at the same time.
• 2918[21:46:23] <ed_> replaced-url
• 2919[21:46:23] <Iridos> depends from which floor you throw it ^^
• 2920[21:46:26] <numbdewd> oh..
• 2921[21:46:38] <ed_> jelly, do you think safe to run and then boot?
• 2922[21:46:40] <somiaj> laptop212321321: most likely the difference is in software used.
• 2923[21:47:17] * RATS using a mobile phone
• 2924[21:47:18] <annadane> i think debian comes installed with inherently less bloat
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• 2926[21:47:27] <annadane> so i suppose by some trivial measure it's "faster"
• 2927[21:47:38] <somiaj> laptop212321321: please don't message people without asking first. And as said, the difference is probably small, out side of maybe software used. For example lxde maybe faster than gnome. But this really isn't a distro issue.
• 2928[21:47:38] <annadane> but an ubuntu expert i am not
• 2929[21:47:44] <laptop212321321> I see thanks
• 2930[21:47:51] <Iridos> jelly, yes … got that after my initial comment… and I had already admitted that it might be what you can expect… but nothing can bring me to say that that looks "ok"
• 2931[21:47:54] <numbdewd> presumablby Deb might more likely be more secure as well? Im not sure but thats the impression I'ev got anyway.. while Ubuntu being more of a typical desktop- and beginner- Linux with focus on user-friendlyness mostly (again i dno tho..just my (lacking) impression:d)
• 2932[21:48:09] <laptop212321321> more secure?
• 2933[21:48:14] * RATS hmm need fast connection:)
• 2934[21:48:19] <laptop212321321> does more software work with debian
• 2935[21:48:29] <annadane> maybe - ubuntu packages are debian testing/unstable derived
• 2936[21:48:39] <annadane> which is inherently less secure but again, ubuntu expert i am not
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• 2939[21:49:06] <laptop212321321> ok
• 2940[21:49:17] <somiaj> laptop212321321: debian probably comes with more packages, but I don't think that is really a measure of which one to use. Since of the 20,000+ debian packages, most only use a small protion of them.
• 2941[21:50:08] <somiaj> laptop212321321: the big difference between distros is policy, how the core is set up, and avaialbe software versions.
• 2942[21:50:27] <jelly> ed_, you could certainly try; I'd check whether any services you deem important are still installed
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• 2944[21:50:52] <ed_> im having second thoughts at the moment as apache is in the kill list
• 2945[21:51:23] <RATS> ? Owh taipoon already?
• 2946[21:51:31] <somiaj> laptop212321321: again, stop messging people. Please keep conversation in the channel
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• 2950[21:53:14] <Iridos> numbdewd, I don't have a helluva docker containers so far … but who knows… thanks
• 2951[21:54:19] <RATS> Owh same trsunami
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• 2954[21:54:45] <ed_> from my prespective, things like *this* are what sells the container. i don't want my services impacted by my stupidity :)
• 2955[21:55:00] <annadane> to be pedantic any linux distribution aside from pentesting ones is likely to be more secure than windows because of measures they take like root privileges, chances are if you just observe best practices for the distro that you're on you'll be fine
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• 2958[21:55:30] <annadane> if you're an idiot using debian, then you'll find it's just as insecure as windows
• 2959[21:55:31] <RATS> Legs
• 2960[21:55:33] <ed_> annadane: true for windows too
• 2961[21:55:50] <annadane> you're not "more likely to be hacked" if you use ubuntu
• 2962[21:55:53] <RATS> Loving it
• 2963[21:56:04] <annadane> !ops RATS spamming
• 2964[21:56:07] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annadane complains about a problem (see above)
• 2965[21:56:17] <annadane> 99% sure that's a bot
• 2966[21:56:23] <jelly> RATS, this channel is for tech support. If you want to chat, try ##chat or #debian-offtopic
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• 2968[21:56:55] <RATS> Ok owh
• 2969[21:57:07] <RATS> He he
• 2970[21:57:26] <Iridos> annadane, windows also has something like root privileges… what century do you live in :)
• 2971[21:57:52] <RATS> Oh ya ya
• 2972[21:57:52] <ed_> Iridos: it has no concept of sudo like configuration
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• 2976[21:58:35] <jhutchins_wk> ed_: What, Windows?
• 2977[21:58:41] *** Quits: punctuatin (~PortableP@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2978[21:58:41] <ed_> jhutchins_wk: yes
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• 2981[21:59:01] <Iridos> it kind of does? but I what windows does or does not have is pretty offtopic for here… so … we should continue that in #debian-offtopic or something
• 2982[21:59:10] <jhutchins_wk> Windows has has the administrative privilege concept since at least NT4.
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• 2987[22:00:42] <numbdewd> tho few if any does, basic security thing to do in Win is to demote oneself to a non-admin user.. it has various interesting security policy features (most versions, even old win2k/nt had iirc, ipsec policy n whatnot.. ) which few if any normal users would touch or even know of however..
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• 2990[22:01:08] <Iridos> for here maybe it suffices to say that comparing the security of different systems is a difficult thing and I feel a lot of people have failed to make a persuasive one
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• 2993[22:01:51] <numbdewd> for older systems may have been useful using tools such as this (esp. for using browsers n stuff..) replaced-url
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• 2996[22:02:09] <numbdewd> hm.. yeah, i guess it deends on ones environment and threat model ultimately,hmh.. :x
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• 2999[22:03:20] <numbdewd> ..i wanna learn BSD tho, partly due to the "security thru obscurity" its less-known/-used aspect would provide (and yeah I hear ur critizism of that idea.... still - also, additional security-features as well..) hmh!
• 3000[22:03:25] <annadane> what i was just sort of indicating which may not have been clear is that a question like "is ubuntu less secure than debian" is probably being asked because the questioner is trying to pick a linux distribution and needs feedback
• 3001[22:03:27] <numbdewd> ..eventually..some day!
• 3002[22:03:36] <annadane> and is concerned with security
• 3003[22:03:47] <annadane> so if that's all you need then you can choose either ubuntu or debian
• 3004[22:04:57] <numbdewd> I think ubuntu possibly had.. can't rememeber name.. something similar as Windows Search Indexer, scrubbing ur disk/files for indexing to enable fast results in searches and such...among other things, which sounded bad.. not sure if deb has same tho (nor the eventual diff on desktop versions of these in regard to that feature/whatever, if is/was at all..cant remember its name anyway!)
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• 3006[22:05:35] <annadane> anyway, #debian-offtopic is a better discussion avenue
• 3007[22:05:44] <ed_> hrm: "systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd.
• 3008[22:05:52] <annadane> oh god, ed_.
• 3009[22:06:13] <ed_> does daemontools count? as that's running...
• 3010[22:06:39] <jhutchins_wk> ed_: Nope.
• 3011[22:07:14] <jelly> daemontools on its own does not handle pid 1; runit might.
• 3012[22:07:57] <ed_> hrm, thought svscan would
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• 3017[22:08:47] <jhutchins_wk> PID1 is /sbin/init on this stretch systemd system.
• 3018[22:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1710
• 3019[22:09:30] <ed_> how the devil did systemd end up in the i386 list
• 3020[22:10:03] <RATS> ?
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• 3025[22:12:03] <ed_> this crossgrade is similar to 1 and 11 o'clock, the hands are so close yet so far. thanks for the help guys, im going to sleep on it and most likely admit defeat, but it's been fun
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• 3027[22:12:37] <RATS> Bye end
• 3028[22:12:45] <RATS> Ed
• 3029[22:13:03] <ed_> im blaming systemd for this
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• 3032[22:13:17] <RATS> Nice meet u
• 3033[22:13:42] <RATS> Yeah all know
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• 3036[22:14:00] <numbdewd> meat *
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• 3085[22:43:14] <toogley> hey. can someone tell me the path of the env binary? i don't have a debian system running and can't test it
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• 3087[22:43:39] <webmind> toogley: /usr/bin/env
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• 3089[22:43:46] <digdilem> /usr/bin/env
• 3090[22:43:55] <toogley> digdilem: webmind thanks
• 3091[22:43:57] <RATS> Yeh
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• 3102[22:47:03] <daegontaven> hey guys, i get this error on virtualbox replaced-url
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• 3107[22:47:52] <daegontaven> it
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• 3109[22:48:06] <daegontaven> *it is the kde version of debian btw
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• 3112[22:49:06] <apollo13> well look what dev has
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• 3114[22:49:22] <apollo13> apparently no sdb
• 3115[22:49:27] <daegontaven> apollo13: how do i do that ?
• 3116[22:49:40] <apollo13> change into the directory and use ls?!
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• 3118[22:49:48] <daegontaven> oh right lol hold on
• 3119[22:49:55] <RATS> Keep quite
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• 3122[22:50:41] <RATS> Shyy..
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• 3136[22:51:59] <apollo13> daegontaven: or fdisk -l if it is in the initramfs
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• 3138[22:52:08] <daegontaven> apollo13: looks good so far replaced-url
• 3139[22:52:22] <apollo13> that is a 404
• 3140[22:52:25] <daegontaven> oops i mean replaced-url
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• 3143[22:52:45] <apollo13> there is just sda
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• 3145[22:52:48] <apollo13> nowhere is there sdb
• 3146[22:53:05] <daegontaven> oh right..how did i miss that
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• 3148[22:53:12] <apollo13> which makes more sense anyways if you just have one disk
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• 3150[22:53:24] <daegontaven> is it wierd that it boots on my mac
• 3151[22:53:33] <apollo13> different vbox config
• 3152[22:53:45] <daegontaven> apollo13: no im booting directly
• 3153[22:53:51] <apollo13> ??
• 3154[22:53:59] <daegontaven> not with vbox on mac
• 3155[22:54:04] <daegontaven> just direct boot
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• 3158[22:54:16] <apollo13> and how did you get it into vbox?
• 3159[22:54:25] <apollo13> anyways, then it is not really a surprise
• 3160[22:54:40] <daegontaven> that is on a windows machine following this tutorial replaced-url
• 3161[22:55:08] <apollo13> well no surprise there imo
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• 3164[22:55:14] <apollo13> your macs internal disk is /dev/sda
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• 3167[22:55:20] <apollo13> your usb stick there is sdb
• 3168[22:55:30] <apollo13> now in vbox you just have the usb stick as sda…
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• 3171[22:55:53] <daegontaven> im sorta new to this, is there something i can change in vbox to fix this >
• 3172[22:55:56] <daegontaven> ?
• 3173[22:56:24] <apollo13> aside from adding another disk? not really, no. fix your usb stick to be properly bootable in such environments
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• 3335[22:57:32] <daegontaven> apollo13: can you direct to a tutorial or sources so i can learn to do that?
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• 3338[22:57:51] <apollo13> nothing out of the top of my head no
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• 3341[22:58:15] <apollo13> you could just grep any live system and write it to the usb stick
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• 3343[22:58:22] <apollo13> a standard installation will be somewhat tricky
• 3344[22:58:35] <apollo13> though it might work if you replace sdb with device ids whereever needed
• 3345[22:58:38] <apollo13> (might (tm))
• 3346[22:58:41] <daegontaven> apollo13: im booting from a usb and it was full disk installation of debian | do i need to change to live usb with persistence ?
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• 3358[22:59:11] <apollo13> that would certainly be the easier alternative if you do not feel confident with that stuff
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• 3366[22:59:41] <daegontaven> apollo13: i don't | im in no way good at linux ._.
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• 3388[23:02:17] <daegontaven> anybody know of an official link to setup a live usb with persistence?
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• 3416[23:16:12] <hans_> i have a VPS
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• 3435[23:20:55] <hans_> its an Xen-paravirtualization VPS thing, and the root filesystem is running a hypervisor-managed ext3 , i can't mess with the partition table or the root filesystem (it has to be ext3), yet i can run my own kernels, so.. on /dev/xvda1 i have an ext3 with a file i would like to loopback-mount as my root partition during boot, any ideas? like, maybe i could make /dev/xvda1 mount as /boot and loopback-mount /boot/disk.img as / ?
• 3436[23:20:55] <annadane> hans_, okay, so what's the question?
• 3437[23:20:57] <annadane> ah
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• 3447[23:23:34] <hans_> if someone sees a problem with that idea, or has a better idea, please speak up
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• 3463[23:31:30] <Arahael> hans_: It's been a long time for me since I've delved into this, but, for me the biggest "problem" is that isn't LVM.
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• 3466[23:32:25] <Arahael> hans_: What do you want to achieve out of this? It's difficult to determine what your question is.
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• 3473[23:34:19] <hans_> Arahael, i want to run a btrfs partition as my root, because it supports transparent compression ( compress=zlib/lzo/zstd ), and disk space is limited and precious on this vps
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• 3483[23:36:10] <hans_> (also something about how i dont want to be affected when some VPS neighbor dickhead on the same filesystem uses up all the inodes)
• 3484[23:36:39] <Arahael> I hadn't considered the possibility of that happening.
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• 3486[23:37:08] <Arahael> But it's weird that disk IO is more limited than CPU. Which cloud is it?
• 3487[23:37:20] <numbdewd> host may restrict and automate spreading load as such,
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• 3489[23:37:47] <numbdewd> and not rarely (auto-)kill processes passing certain thresholds..
• 3490[23:37:48] <hans_> its a VPS from virpus.com
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• 3492[23:38:06] <hans_> numbdewd, they dont see my processes, i run my own dedicated kernel
• 3493[23:38:21] <hans_> well, maybe, but im not sure how they would
• 3494[23:38:28] <hans_> most likely, they cant see my processes
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• 3496[23:38:49] <numbdewd> maybe mount, using encryption somehow surely, some remote container by a free cloud provider or something..?
• 3497[23:38:49] <hans_> ofc its possible that they somehow analyze the ram to get a view but it would be extremely un-portable and
• 3498[23:39:21] <numbdewd> (for more space I meant..not sure how convenient that'd be to get around to.. (Im not sure..) =x )
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• 3502[23:39:30] <Arahael> hans_: I can't remember how the different "rings" work with virtualisation, but they probably can hook into the guest kernel.
• 3503[23:39:35] <Arahael> hans_: But it isn't relevant.
• 3504[23:40:20] <Arahael> hans_: I would probably leave your root as-is, and add additional partitions/images using LVM.
• 3505[23:40:33] <numbdewd> yeah, I wouldn't trust any VPS,no matter virtualization software used/hypervizor.... VPS and consider it "shared" (possibly looked at in secrecy on occasion.. who knows maybe just some bored nosey low-lvl tech even.. )
• 3506[23:40:54] <Arahael> Eg, /: ext3, /var: btrfs on LVM, /home: btrfs on LVM, etc.
• 3507[23:40:59] <hans_> Arahael, oh btw, its not IO that is expensive, it's storage that is. and btrfs transparent compression could help in that department
• 3508[23:41:11] <numbdewd> tho id bet some significantly less-insecure than others, too.. (like vz vs kvm?)
• 3509[23:41:11] <hans_> i only have 40GB to work with
• 3510[23:41:34] <Arahael> hans_: If that's tight, is there no way you can get more storage?
• 3511[23:41:41] <Arahael> hans_: Sounds like a dodgy setup. :/
• 3512[23:41:42] <hans_> there is, but its expensive ^^
• 3513[23:42:46] <Arahael> hans_: Perhaps there are other ways of usig that storage more efficiently? Eg, you could move them toanother service?
• 3514[23:43:33] <numbdewd> many VPS u can rent for a few dollars per year, anonymously even without issue (using some anonymous form of payment, example BTC) and made-up/fake/stolen ID for verification; possibly considering eventual reports on, and their stated Terms/conditions on verificcation as such, the potential scrutiny of clients.. and use to chain numerous VPNs in various ways for example, or such.. (also possibl
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• 3517[23:44:05] <numbdewd> ..possibly doing things beyond their "acceptable use policy" without fear of repercussions, given having taken care not to pollute with revealing data/own IP or anything like that:d)
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• 3521[23:45:37] <numbdewd> there are also many kinds of scripts to automate setup of software like openvpn; download,configure and install, some with added obfuscation of various kind.., custom dns-software for various things,compartmentalized encrypted containers for its various use based on triggers... and much more.. quite cheap possibly if u look around, not neccessarily bad either (tho, id believe, the ones explicitly
• 3522[23:45:42] <Arahael> hans_: On Amazon, EBS storage is like, $0.10/GB/month.
• 3523[23:45:56] <Arahael> hans_: And amazon isn't exactly cheap.
• 3524[23:46:37] <numbdewd> ..advertising "anonymous" payments, accounts or such with their services to likely either be susceptible to... monitoring or such infact, or otherwise be at risk of instability in general due to ppl (others noticing the claims of possibility for anonymity) abusing it and you suffering as a result too if being on a shared box
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• 3526[23:47:49] <Arahael> numbdewd: What's wrong with "anonymous" payments, in general? (Why the scare quotes?)
• 3527[23:48:33] <numbdewd> I have nothing against it personally.. ..hmh ? May be I failed to express myself properly, or caused confusion with my bad english,.. or something.. ..?
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• 3529[23:49:09] <numbdewd> infact I support and hope for its continued and progressing existance actually.. (BTC ive kinda lost hope for in this regard by now mind you.. )
• 3530[23:49:18] <numbdewd> (anonymous means of payment, that is)
• 3531[23:49:20] <LtL> y'all are in the wrong channel
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• 3533[23:49:45] <numbdewd> ..right. sorry =p
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• 3535[23:51:40] <LtL> #debian-offtopic works
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